Order of Man - 131： Living Life on the Edge ｜ Navy SEAL Andy Stumpf

00:00:00.000 Everywhere you turn, you'll find men living what I call the sedated life, like robots on an assembly line.

00:00:05.680 These men wake up at the same time. They eat the same food for breakfast, drive to work the same way every day,

00:00:10.940 do the same menial tasks for eight to nine hours, drive home, kiss the wife and kids, eat dinner, watch some TV, go to bed,

00:00:16.820 and then do it all over again tomorrow.

00:00:18.660 My guest today, former Navy SEAL and wingsuit base jumper Andy Stumpf, is the exact opposite of that.

00:00:23.900 And while we can't all be Navy SEALs, jump off really high mountains and structures and travel the distance of 18 miles in a wingsuit,

00:00:31.580 we can all take some calculated risks that make us feel alive.

00:00:35.420 So today we talk about finding something worth fighting for, eliminating emotions in the decision-making process,

00:00:41.280 why people fail in the application of their goals, and how to live life on the edge.

00:00:46.360 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest.

00:00:49.340 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:52.020 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:56.760 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:01:01.800 This is your life. This is who you are.

00:01:04.320 This is who you will become at the end of the day.

00:01:07.240 And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:11.320 Men, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and founder of this podcast, The Order of Man.

00:01:17.380 And whether you are new to the show or not, I want to welcome you to what I consider to be the manliest show podcasting has to offer.

00:01:24.380 I'll leave that up to you to decide.

00:01:25.880 But each week I'm bringing you some incredible guests to discuss the topics of influence and risk, leadership, psychology, finance, mindset, performance, relationships,

00:01:36.660 just about anything else that is important to you and me as men.

00:01:39.840 So make sure if you haven't done so already, hit that little subscribe button and leave a review wherever you get your fix of podcast so that you never miss a single episode of this show.

00:01:48.180 Man, I have got a great one lined up for you today with a former Navy SEAL and sponsored wingsuit base jumper.

00:01:53.540 This one is so insightful, but before I get into that, I do want to thank our sponsor of the show, NetSuite from Oracle.

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00:03:07.860 So guys, with that said, let me introduce you to my guest today.

00:03:11.420 Andy Stumpf is a former Navy SEAL with SEAL Team 5 and later joining the most elite counterterrorism unit in the military, SEAL Team 6.

00:03:19.240 He is a 5'11 and Black Rifle Coffee Company sponsored athlete and has an affinity for jumping off really tall mountains and perfectly good airplanes.

00:03:29.540 And as impressive as that sounds, he refers to himself as a professional gravity enthusiast.

00:03:34.600 And rightfully so, he's completed wingsuit jumps lasting more than 18 miles at speeds of over 160 miles per hour.

00:03:41.320 He's the recipient of five Bronze Star Medals, four of them with Valor, the Purple Heart, the Joint Service Accommodation Medal, the Navy and Marine Corps Accommodation Medal with Valor, three Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medals, and two Combat Action Ribbons.

00:03:54.180 So in other words, the man is a genuine bad A, and today he's here to talk with us about living life on the edge.

00:04:01.100 Andy, what's going on, man?

00:04:02.160 Thanks for joining me on the show today.

00:04:03.580 Thanks for having me, man.

00:04:04.320 I really appreciate it.

00:04:05.020 Yeah, I've been following you for a while now, and, you know, from the outside looking in, and I think a lot of people that either follow you or will follow you because they hear you on this podcast would probably look at you and think, this guy is just an adrenaline junkie.

00:04:17.640 But I think there's a whole lot more to it.

00:04:19.640 Can you tell me a little bit about why you do some of the things that you do that might seem crazy to other people?

00:04:24.660 Yeah, you know, it's probably the most common comment that I get.

00:04:28.060 There's one of two.

00:04:29.060 The first one is you're crazy, and the second one is you're an adrenaline junkie.

00:04:34.000 And now, in full disclosure, there is an essence of adrenaline in doing the skydiving and base jumping stuff that I spend about half of my year doing.

00:04:42.640 There certainly is that, but I hate social media for a couple reasons.

00:04:47.820 One of them is that it doesn't tell a complete story.

00:04:51.140 The things that you put on social media, you know, everybody's selective, to include myself, and I put up the pictures that I like or that are more exciting.

00:04:58.820 You know, flying through the air or base jumping or, you know, anything in that realm.

00:05:03.860 And I hate it because what it doesn't show is everything that goes into being able to do those things.

00:05:10.040 You know, base jumping is a perfect example.

00:05:12.100 Pictures, you know, they're a moment, a freeze frame in time.

00:05:15.400 And most base jumping videos start about five seconds before the person exits the object.

00:05:20.100 And a lot of the times they end before their feet even touch the ground.

00:05:22.980 Sure.

00:05:23.140 And to use my last trip to Switzerland as an example, we hiked for 275 miles in a period of probably two weeks, maybe two and a half weeks max.

00:05:31.720 And I think I flew my wingsuit for somewhere between 18 to 20 minutes.

00:05:35.560 So the ratio of what shows up on social media in comparison to what you're actually doing to make those things possible is very askew.

00:05:43.060 And inside of that, you know, before I even go to Switzerland, I spend months flying my wingsuit.

00:05:49.660 You know, I never take a new wingsuit overseas with me to Europe to base jump before I have.

00:05:54.540 I try to get as close to, I mean, 100 jumps is about the number for a new suit to get the feel for it in every different airspeed, every different configuration.

00:06:01.380 And the same thing goes with new canopies, with new containers that hold the canopies.

00:06:06.560 And so I have a variety of wingsuits, and I maintain that currency across all of those wingsuits, all of the canopies, and then all of the other disciplines that I do inside of skydiving as well.

00:06:16.280 None of that makes the highlight reel, but all of that is what makes the highlight reel possible.

00:06:21.700 So that's the, you know, that's just the currency and training piece.

00:06:24.140 And then as far as the adrenaline, you know, like I said, there's certainly that aspect to it.

00:06:28.200 But what I enjoy even more, I think, is the challenge and the mental clarity and focus that I get, especially when I'm base jumping, when you're standing on the edge of a cliff.

00:06:37.440 And, you know, you could have had the worst day of your life leading up to that point, even though if you did have the worst day of your life, I'm going to recommend you not jump.

00:06:44.380 It's probably not a good day to do that, right?

00:06:46.020 Yeah.

00:06:46.640 As an example, if you were to do that, let's just say like this, everybody has a lot of things that they worry about.

00:06:51.780 Like I try hard to worry about only the things that I can control, but I'm guilty of worrying about things I have no control over as well.

00:06:58.080 Of course.

00:06:58.760 But it's funny what happens as you get closer to jumping, all of those peripheral things that just don't matter at all, they start to fade away.

00:07:06.060 And what you end up with in the few minutes, and especially the moment right before you jump, is a mental headspace and clarity that I've found it very hard to replicate elsewhere.

00:07:16.440 You know, there's plenty of books that I've read that are written about it.

00:07:18.760 Traditionally, it's called The Flow State.

00:07:20.380 And there's, you know, athletes are able to get into that sometimes.

00:07:23.140 Sure.

00:07:23.200 This is like Stephen Kotler's work I imagine you're referring to.

00:07:26.240 For sure.

00:07:26.800 Okay.

00:07:27.020 And again, so it's not unique to what I do.

00:07:29.060 But, you know, if you talk to those athletes, once you understand that state of mind and the clarity and the focus and how it has impact on your life outside of that movement, you know, there's a really, there's a desire to get back into it.

00:07:39.420 And that's, for me, if I had to cut it into a percentage chart, I'd say I jump 50% for how it feels to be flying through the air face first at 120 miles an hour and 50% for what it does to my head.

00:07:51.940 It's just that impact on my life in general.

00:07:55.460 And I describe it as, it just kind of pulls back the levers on the stereo system, you know?

00:07:59.180 So if you're constantly living your life at a 10 and there's static and noise everywhere, for me, I find that it helps pull everything back to a two or a three, which has impact across everything that I do in my life.

00:08:09.060 Does that level of focus and clarity increase based on the level of risk or is there another factor or does that not apply?

00:08:19.120 Because I'm thinking about, for example, running a Spartan race, which is significantly less dangerous than some of the things you're doing.

00:08:26.560 Are we getting the same type of focus and clarity from something like that?

00:08:29.680 You know, I think that would be dependent on the person.

00:08:31.760 Having never done a Spartan race, I don't know.

00:08:33.760 And I think it would depend a lot on their experiential background as well.

00:08:36.920 If you have a background where you're spending, you know, not only assessing but mitigating risk in living in an environment that people would consider to be moderate to severely high risk, you're probably going to have to go more to the fringes to replicate that.

00:08:50.940 But if you are somebody who is doing their first ever physical activity like that, I would be willing to bet you could probably approach it or find that greater sense of focus or I don't want to say oneness with yourself, but maybe connectedness to who you are as you approach that and probably during that race.

00:09:06.480 But again, dependent on the individual.

00:09:08.340 For me, if I was going to do a Spartan race, I think I would get anywhere near that at all.

00:09:11.580 It's just too much of a different stimulus.

00:09:13.900 Have you found that you've needed to go bigger and grander and greater the more that you've become accustomed to the wingsuit or base jumping or any of the things that you're doing?

00:09:23.240 I would say the short answer is no.

00:09:25.120 And the reason for that is from an outside perspective, you know, my experience in the base jumping world, specifically the wingsuit base jumping world, is pretty thin in comparison to a lot of people.

00:09:36.140 And having not much experience and just trying to look at it objectively, I see a lot of people who are at the apex of the sport who get caught in that cycle of, okay, I have to redefine myself.

00:09:46.580 I have to do the next big stunt.

00:09:48.280 I have to do the next big thing.

00:09:49.860 And they're dying.

00:09:51.660 And I don't really want to do that.

00:09:53.100 I'm not interested in having a massive, you know, a very bright light for an instant of a career.

00:09:58.040 I'd rather have like a big flame over 30 years.

00:10:01.180 You know, I'll go for the lower light wattage, have a great career.

00:10:04.560 I'm not trying to prove anything to anybody.

00:10:05.960 I'm doing it for myself.

00:10:07.540 I constantly am looking at myself from the outside like, why are you doing this?

00:10:11.180 Are you prepared?

00:10:12.000 Are you current?

00:10:12.580 Are you competent?

00:10:13.540 And asking myself those questions.

00:10:15.080 And I'm actually trying to set the record for the number of base jumps that anybody's ever walked away from, you know, getting up to the edge and being like, I don't really feel it.

00:10:23.100 I'm going to walk away and jump another day because I'm pretty sure that's going to help me survive.

00:10:26.360 What is that record?

00:10:27.400 I have no idea.

00:10:28.280 It's a completely made up record that I'm just, I'm going to be the world champion though.

00:10:31.260 How many jumps have you done close to?

00:10:33.520 I don't know if you know exactly.

00:10:34.400 I have just approaching 7,000 skydives and probably in the neighborhood of three to 500 base jumps.

00:10:41.440 It takes a lot longer to get the base jump numbers up.

00:10:43.840 Just like I said, we, you know, we hiked for 275 miles in two and a half weeks, probably flew our suits for 18 to 20 minutes.

00:10:50.300 So in that two and a half weeks, we got maybe 45 to 50 jumps and I can do that in a five day time period skydiving.

00:10:57.840 How do you find the balance between being able to reserve?

00:11:00.800 Because you've talked about it now just a couple of times in a few short minutes about holding back and, hey, I'm not feeling it today or I'm not going to do it today.

00:11:06.940 How do you find the balance between that clear thought and pushing the bounds?

00:11:11.520 Because I know you're probably a competitive guy.

00:11:13.580 You've been in life and death situations before.

00:11:15.920 And so I think it'd be easier just from my vantage point for you to continue to push harder and harder where it may be dangerous.

00:11:21.220 It's very easy to continue to push harder and harder and, you know, it actually becomes more dangerous when you hang around people who are mentoring you, especially if they have a skill level that's above what yours is, which is likely possible in that mentor environment.

00:11:34.680 Because it's really easy to get sucked into, you know, I'm here with a guy, he's amazing, and he would tell me if I'm not ready for this, right?

00:11:43.480 He would tell me if I'm not, if I'm looking like I'm not ready to go.

00:11:46.680 And I know more than one person that's died because of doing that.

00:11:50.040 And so I just try to take notes on that stuff.

00:11:52.160 I mean, I try to be very analytical, very non-emotion based when it comes to looking at what it is that I'm capable of doing and what it is that I want to do.

00:12:01.260 And at the end of the day, I mean, I think the biggest key to success or longevity in the base jumping world is just to check your ego at the door.

00:12:08.160 I don't care if people think I'm a good base jumper or I'm, you know, oh, look at what he's doing.

00:12:13.360 Like, I could care less.

00:12:14.460 I'm doing it for me, and I have absolutely nothing to prove to anybody.

00:12:18.820 And, I mean, I remind myself of that.

00:12:21.280 Like, hey, man, what are you doing this for?

00:12:23.140 Like, you know, yes, that would be a great video, but is that video worth your life?

00:12:28.180 Because I've seen a lot of cool YouTube videos, but never one where I watched it and be like, oh, man, that video would be worth dying for.

00:12:34.300 I would die for that.

00:12:35.360 Yeah.

00:12:35.620 Not a single one have I ever seen.

00:12:37.060 Well, and you've got a family that's relying upon you, too.

00:12:39.000 I imagine this plays a part in your decision-making process.

00:12:42.540 For sure.

00:12:43.140 I mean, and that's the thing.

00:12:43.980 You have to take a broad, full-spectrum approach to why it is you're doing things.

00:12:47.720 And, again, you have to assess all of the risks that are out there, look at what you can do to mitigate them, and then determine that residual risk.

00:12:56.780 And is it worth it?

00:12:57.720 Is that residual risk worth never seeing your family again?

00:13:01.920 What is it that makes it worth it for you?

00:13:04.380 What would be that thing where, like, not worth it to die, but just worth it to put that risk and get yourself in the arena, if you will?

00:13:11.860 Uh, I'll go back to the mental head state that I get from jumping.

00:13:18.020 It makes me a better person.

00:13:20.240 It makes me not worry about things that I maybe would otherwise get spun up about.

00:13:25.720 It makes me – it just calms me down, and it makes me a better father.

00:13:29.820 It makes me a better husband.

00:13:30.700 My decision-making is better in the business world.

00:13:32.980 And, again, there's maybe a way that I could find that elsewhere, but I have found a place where I can go to relatively easily to get that release, if you want to call it that.

00:13:44.340 And it's the impact that it has on everything else.

00:13:46.680 You know, base jumping is dangerous, but it's a dangerous activity that you can do safely.

00:13:51.620 I imagine it probably at the same time puts things in perspective.

00:13:54.760 I was on Facebook yesterday, and as much as I enjoy social media and it's important for my work, it's really easy for us to get bogged down in stuff that just has no relevancy in your life.

00:14:05.800 And I imagine when you're doing the things that you're doing, it allows you to focus on the extremely important and eliminate just about everything else.

00:14:12.700 Yeah, you know what you're not thinking about right before you jump?

00:14:15.180 That's Facebook.

00:14:16.040 Right.

00:14:17.260 Right.

00:14:18.020 Nothing that happens on Facebook is important.

00:14:21.180 It's – you know, I'm new to social media.

00:14:23.000 For many years, I didn't have it.

00:14:24.440 I think I've been on there for a couple of years now, and I'm constantly – my jaw hits the floor on how people interact with each other, the things that they say, the unwillingness to even digest a new idea to see if it fits with who they are or not.

00:14:36.580 It's a mind-blowing, consequence-free environment that makes no sense to me, and nothing that happens on there is important.

00:14:44.040 You know, just like you said, you're not – you know, I'm not thinking about that stuff when I'm hiking with a really good friend of mine in the backcountry.

00:14:50.020 I'm thinking about what it is that I want to do.

00:14:51.860 And, you know, you land from a successful jump, and you're appreciative of all the tangible things in life.

00:15:00.020 Yeah, I bet.

00:15:00.480 You know, it's just – it's a hard thing to describe, and it might not make a lot of sense to a lot of people.

00:15:05.720 And that's okay because, you know, to me, it makes sense.

00:15:08.280 What are your thoughts about you going out and doing the work that you're doing, but then also understanding that you're a husband, you're a father, and I've got kids to take care of.

00:15:17.480 And, of course, I want to be available and present for them.

00:15:20.180 How does that play out in your mind?

00:15:22.100 It's a tough balance, you know, but for me, I mean, I do it professionally.

00:15:25.920 So it's – I have the same conversations as any other professional would, albeit the office view is slightly different than most.

00:15:33.520 A lot greater, I bet.

00:15:35.180 Yeah, for sure.

00:15:36.000 I mean, there's pros and cons to everything.

00:15:37.320 So you have to look at it from that same work-home-life balance.

00:15:41.400 And I just try to manage how much time I'm on the road.

00:15:43.560 And what I've started to do recently in the past year and a half or so is, you know, I'll chunk all of my travel and do like a really hard 8 to 10 days and then come home and have a month off.

00:15:54.700 You know, I'm not off in air quotes.

00:15:57.580 I mean, I'm still working.

00:15:58.380 I work from home.

00:15:59.540 I have a lot of other requirements.

00:16:00.640 But I can do all that stuff from home.

00:16:02.100 So I just get all the travel in because what I used to do is just say yes to every trip.

00:16:06.480 And I'd be gone Tuesday, Wednesday.

00:16:08.540 And then I'd come back and then I'd have to leave Sunday.

00:16:10.260 And that I found to be much more interruptive than just getting the work done and then coming back.

00:16:14.800 And you can kind of separate yourself from that.

00:16:16.700 And it makes you more present in what I have found for myself better in the home life.

00:16:21.760 As you become busier and more, you know, in the public eye and just more present, how do you determine what you should say yes to and what you're saying no to?

00:16:32.200 Because it sounds like that's changed over time and you've gotten a little better at this.

00:16:35.380 Yeah, the most powerful word in my vocabulary and the one that I'm learning to say the most and enjoy saying the most is no.

00:16:43.000 I think the most common answer or the most common desire for people is to take every opportunity in front of them.

00:16:49.820 And I think, again, speaking for myself, we all go through that phase in life.

00:16:53.720 When I got out of the military and I first started doing jumping as a sponsored or endorsed athlete, the desire is to say yes to everything.

00:17:00.440 And what you end up finding or what I found is that you actually dilute your effort.

00:17:04.260 And although you're doing more work, you're getting less accomplished.

00:17:07.280 And it just for me, it just took time and realization that I never had downtime.

00:17:10.860 I was constantly being tugged because of requirements left, right and center.

00:17:14.300 And so when I started backing away from it, I was actually hesitant when I began to.

00:17:17.980 But then I saw the positive impact.

00:17:19.660 And now it either fits perfectly or it's just not happening.

00:17:23.120 It sounds like you're pretty self-aware.

00:17:24.420 I mean, just in this short conversation, you've alluded to the fact of knowing what it is you want.

00:17:29.740 What did that transition look like out of the SEALs?

00:17:32.820 Because I think if I remember correctly, you spent, what, 17 years in the SEALs?

00:17:36.580 Yep.

00:17:36.940 Yep.

00:17:37.120 Just under, one month under.

00:17:38.400 What is that transition like for you?

00:17:40.820 Because I imagine that clarity was difficult to come by after spending nearly two decades doing something very well.

00:17:46.820 The clarity piece, I think the bridge for me was the jumping.

00:17:50.720 I wasn't able to pursue base jumping while I was active duty.

00:17:53.820 It was expressly prohibited.

00:17:55.740 So I basically waited until I got out.

00:17:58.940 And I think that's why I enjoyed it so much when I first started because of that, the mental difference that it made for me.

00:18:05.600 I mean, being a SEAL is, it's a very exciting job at times.

00:18:08.560 And it's an excruciatingly boring job at other times.

00:18:11.640 That hurry up and wait type thing, right?

00:18:13.540 My God.

00:18:14.380 It defines it.

00:18:15.440 Get on the helicopter.

00:18:16.360 Okay, it's broken.

00:18:17.120 Don't take a nap.

00:18:17.800 Get on the helicopter.

00:18:18.800 All right, the sun's coming up.

00:18:19.820 We're not going.

00:18:20.240 But, you know, it's a challenging environment, both physically and mentally.

00:18:24.020 It's all about a task being put in front of you and then execute.

00:18:27.460 Task, execute.

00:18:28.320 Task, execute.

00:18:29.600 And then, you know, you're only going to be able to do that for so long in your life, although I was really focused on that.

00:18:34.880 And I spent not enough time focusing on the after.

00:18:37.640 You know, you get out of the military and you need to, I needed to find and create a system for myself where I put up a task in front of me and then I execute.

00:18:45.860 And that, for me, became, you know, in addition to the other business stuff that I was doing, but the jumping side of the house I used is that bridge between that physical and mental pushing my limits that allowed me to do all the other stuff.

00:18:57.260 I think without that, I would have struggled a lot more.

00:18:59.640 I'm sure I would have found my way eventually, but I think I short-circuited the time that it would have taken by doing so.

00:19:04.800 Yeah, because I hear a lot of guys and I've had experience with this with some of my close friends who have a difficult time defining now who they are because they've defined themselves as a warrior or a soldier or a SEAL or whatever.

00:19:16.760 And now they're not and they're struggling to find and make sense of what they should do moving forward.

00:19:23.080 Yeah, you know, that's an interesting observation and it's one that I've had myself.

00:19:27.720 So for my career, and I can only speak for myself, I always tried to look at it as a job.

00:19:32.680 But in my opinion, you rent your time in the SEAL teams.

00:19:35.640 They don't belong to you.

00:19:36.620 The only people that own the SEAL teams are the one that die in the service of this country as a SEAL.

00:19:41.140 So the best you can do is make the environment or the community a little bit better than when you got there.

00:19:46.000 But at some point, it's not going to be who you are.

00:19:49.560 And the people that I have seen, this is totally anecdotally, the people that I have seen who struggle the most are the ones who derive their sense of being from that job.

00:19:58.940 And when that job goes away, if that's all you are, your persona, describe it however you would want to.

00:20:05.580 But everything that you are is defined by a couple-inch piece of metal that hangs on a piece of fabric in a military uniform.

00:20:12.420 The day that you hang that up, the door to problems can open.

00:20:16.620 So I just – I mean I try to be – like you can't define yourself as a warrior, right?

00:20:20.740 I mean you could think of yourself as a warrior.

00:20:23.200 But again, are you going to be a warrior when you're 90?

00:20:25.940 Because at that point, it's only going to be mental.

00:20:28.320 It's not going to be a physical warrior perspective.

00:20:30.300 So everything has to be just taken with a grain of salt.

00:20:32.960 Don't take it too seriously and don't take yourself too seriously.

00:20:35.920 That's what I try to tell young guys who are in the SEAL teams who ask me for advice.

00:20:39.560 And just always remember that at the end of the day, at some point, this is going to end.

00:20:44.500 Don't let it be the only thing that you have.

00:20:46.700 Yeah, that's an interesting perspective.

00:20:48.020 I was reading – I had a four-hour layover yesterday on a flight, travel home.

00:20:52.100 And I was reading –

00:20:52.440 That's fun.

00:20:52.940 Oh, yeah.

00:20:53.320 That's a good time.

00:20:53.760 A book called The Four Agreements and he talks about getting comfortable with the angel of death if I remember the term is right.

00:21:01.660 And he essentially said the same thing.

00:21:03.020 He said, your time on this planet is leased.

00:21:05.980 It's rented.

00:21:06.520 It's not yours. 0.78

00:21:07.460 And the sooner that you can realize that, the sooner you're more capable, I think, of using this life to its fullest.

00:21:14.900 Yeah.

00:21:15.140 I mean I would agree.

00:21:15.920 Everything is temporary.

00:21:16.780 And I say those things about the perspective on the SEAL teams and not having it define who you are.

00:21:22.780 I wasn't perfect in that respect either.

00:21:24.940 And it made more sense to me why I was having a hiccup or a disconnect when I got out because it's tough not to – I mean we all have an ego.

00:21:31.560 And it's tough not to let your ego get attached to it and then wonder who you are when a job title disappears.

00:21:36.740 But I noticed the difficulty that I had.

00:21:40.100 So I try to tell as many people as possible to be proactive about it so they don't have to learn the same lessons that I did.

00:21:45.840 Sure, sure.

00:21:46.600 You mentioned something interesting.

00:21:47.980 You said you can't be a warrior at 90.

00:21:50.100 And I understand what you're saying.

00:21:51.400 But at the same time, I think you can have that warrior spirit.

00:21:53.900 And one of the things that I've heard you say is that you have to find something worth fighting for.

00:21:59.300 Can you talk to me a little bit about how you found that?

00:22:01.740 Of course in your time with the SEALs but outside of that as well?

00:22:04.160 People ask me now being out of the military, what are you going to do with your life?

00:22:08.500 Or my least favorite question is what do you do for a living?

00:22:12.240 That was my next question so I'm glad I didn't know.

00:22:15.100 And the thing is I don't know.

00:22:16.960 I'm taking everything one day at a time.

00:22:19.340 And all I know is that I want to make a difference.

00:22:22.540 And that's my purpose to fight for.

00:22:26.340 And that's in everything.

00:22:28.140 I want to make a difference for my kids.

00:22:30.200 I want to make a difference for this country.

00:22:31.900 And a lot of that starts with my kids.

00:22:33.900 Go back to Facebook where people are just basically, essentially screaming at each other from one side of the street to the other with no intention of even meeting in the middle at all.

00:22:43.540 This needs to happen and you suck and this is your fault.

00:22:46.200 Nothing that happens on there is going to change this country for the better.

00:22:49.440 It's going to be a generational change that occurs at the family level.

00:22:52.380 And going back and being an example to my kids and teaching them about right and wrong and standing up for things that are right and for those that can't stand up for themselves.

00:23:01.440 And for doing the right thing, especially when nobody else is watching and virtues and values and morals.

00:23:07.360 That's what's going to make this country better.

00:23:08.900 Not yelling at each other on Facebook.

00:23:10.300 And I was really lucky.

00:23:13.040 You know, my upbringing, my parents set my moral compass for me really well.

00:23:16.100 And then I went into a community of individuals that refined that even further.

00:23:20.620 And I feel extremely gracious for being surrounded by those individuals.

00:23:25.680 And I have like 15 notebooks full of notes of things that I saw as mistakes and things that I saw that I wanted to embody in my own life.

00:23:34.080 And now I'm just trying to spread the word of those things outside of the military because they're not unique to the military.

00:23:39.480 It's crazy.

00:23:40.380 Leadership and teamwork and integrity and all those things.

00:23:42.560 But there's no unique definition for those inside of the SEAL teams.

00:23:45.480 It's the same stuff.

00:23:46.400 It's just how you apply it.

00:23:47.960 People fail in application, not understanding.

00:23:50.520 Helping people understand those things or being able to talk about those things or working with people on those things.

00:23:55.240 Again, from the family level to the business level to the community level, that's what I want to do.

00:24:00.860 So I don't know how I'm going to get there.

00:24:02.520 But at the end of the day, I just want to make a difference.

00:24:04.740 And that's what I'm choosing to fight for.

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00:26:00.980 Now let's get back to my conversation with Andy.

00:26:02.960 You bring up a really interesting perspective because most people, even the guys that I have on the show are going to talk about, do your five-year plan and have this goal and know what you want and work backwards.

00:26:12.900 And I can see there's some validity to that, but what does your planning process look like if you even have one?

00:26:19.960 Well, it's traunched out a little bit, you know, on the jumping side of the house, it's to continue to constantly be a student and to learn new things and just to continue to get better.

00:26:28.580 So that's kind of one section of it. And as far as the message goes and being able to try to reach more people, so I just started a podcast as well.

00:26:35.700 And it's just to continue to grow and talk to interesting people and try to spread the word there.

00:26:40.180 I enjoy the podcast, by the way. I'm hooked on it. The Cleared Hot podcast, by the way, guys.

00:26:44.680 Yeah, it's interesting. I make no claims as to what's going to be on there. And if you get offended, then I'm sorry.

00:26:49.800 I like the story. I think it was maybe two or three weeks ago you were talking about your early days as a SEAL and how you almost botched that one.

00:26:58.700 Oh, yeah. They didn't let me wear my Trident for six months, but they let me keep the designator.

00:27:02.800 And that one, you want to talk about a reset of how you think about yourself and decision making.

00:27:06.920 It was amazing. But I'm just trying to incrementally increase the reach.

00:27:12.380 You know, so I have the blog, right, which I just write things that I write from my perspective and let people digest it however they want to.

00:27:18.780 I try to write from my experience and be open about like, hey, this is just my experience. Take it or leave it.

00:27:23.960 The podcast is kind of the same thing. I'm not I'm not I don't think I'm a left guy or a right guy.

00:27:28.360 I think I live on both sides of the house sometimes, but most of the time I'm in the middle and just try to increase that reach.

00:27:34.200 And then when people reach out to me and they want me to come speak at their organization or speak with them as an individual, take those a step at a time to try to increase the reach.

00:27:41.920 But, yeah, I don't have anything written out like a 12 or a 24 month plan because I really enjoy the stuff that I'm doing right now.

00:27:48.140 I just want to do more of it.

00:27:49.700 Well, I mean, I like that perspective and I can appreciate it because it is unique and it's different than what a lot of the quote unquote gurus will tell you to do.

00:27:57.560 But it fits in line with with you and from what I can tell your personality as well.

00:28:01.360 You said a minute ago that people fail in application, not understanding, which I agree. 1.00

00:28:06.540 There's a huge gap between what we know we should be doing and what we're actually doing.

00:28:10.020 Why do you think that is?

00:28:11.720 I think the biggest thing missing and again, totally my opinion.

00:28:15.500 What I see with my own eyes kind of looking around is I think one of the biggest things missing is the mentor mentor relationship.

00:28:22.560 I see a trend of people who are trying to hack everything, right?

00:28:28.860 I don't like that mentality, especially with things that have any type of consequence.

00:28:33.020 Like if you want to hack your finances or your investing strategy or like your email inbox, go ahead.

00:28:39.000 But you can't hack experience, you know, and especially when it comes to leadership, right?

00:28:44.460 So we'll use it as an example.

00:28:46.140 You know, the definition of teamwork roughly would be a group of individuals working together for a common goal.

00:28:50.860 I mean, that's pretty broad, but it makes sense.

00:28:53.080 Yeah.

00:28:53.480 And a business person is probably going to read that in a book somewhere and you're going to probably learn it in school somewhere and you're going to learn it in the SEAL teams.

00:29:01.240 Now, in the SEAL teams, what we start telling you from day one is that in the absence of leadership, you need to step up and you need to make a call.

00:29:08.360 It's not that you're in charge.

00:29:09.620 It's that you're keeping the ball rolling so the leader can come back and make a decision.

00:29:13.200 And we constantly train and reinforce by pulling the leadership out and getting you to think like a leader proactively instead of reactively.

00:29:21.700 So you're two or three steps ahead.

00:29:22.980 And this is from like day one.

00:29:24.260 I mean, we're constantly pulling the leadership out to see what the junior personnel do.

00:29:28.120 And then my first SEAL platoon, the only thing I was responsible for was myself.

00:29:32.200 I was paired with a guy who was very senior to me and he was my mentor for two years, essentially.

00:29:37.120 He basically – I was his secondary communication rep and all I did was make sure the radios were clean and I would help him and he would teach me how to load a backpack, how to load the crypto, all the things that are involved with that.

00:29:47.900 And then the next year, the next platoon, two years later, I was the primary communication rep.

00:29:52.520 But he was still in that platoon and he still kind of looked over my shoulder.

00:29:55.520 And the whole way throughout my career, I found somebody that I could always look up to who was there over my shoulder mentoring me who would then get out of the way and allow me to do my job.

00:30:05.500 And I tried to pass that on down the line.

00:30:08.740 And that to me – I mean that's application.

00:30:11.040 That's teamwork in application, mentorship in application.

00:30:14.660 I don't see a lot of that outside of those military environments.

00:30:17.900 And the reason for it, I think, is that the time difference between an error and when that error presents itself, the results of that error, in the military, it can be instantaneous.

00:30:27.680 Like poor leadership in the military, they can have a catastrophic consequence very quickly.

00:30:33.300 In the business world, the only real difference is how much time it takes.

00:30:37.880 So I find people not taking it as seriously.

00:30:40.540 It's that instant feedback, right?

00:30:42.160 If you see it instantaneously, you've got to adapt quickly versus if it takes months or even years, it's hard to pinpoint what the problem actually was to begin with.

00:30:51.080 It is and it allows you a little bit of slop.

00:30:53.580 You need to be precise when timelines are short and the consequences are immediate.

00:30:58.680 Look at the mortgage crisis, right?

00:31:00.000 In like 2008, people were starting to recognize what was going on before that and that was just a failure in integrity and morals and quite frankly, leadership in the companies that were backing all those crazy loans, right?

00:31:11.500 And they knew it and it was probably – they probably got to that point 1% at a time until it was 100% and the market crashed.

00:31:19.200 It's the time, it's the immediacy of the result and in the military, you're not financially motivated.

00:31:27.120 I could tell you exactly what the guy across from me made because the pay scales are –

00:31:31.300 Right, there's no guesswork there.

00:31:32.880 Correct.

00:31:33.360 And again, in the business world, I see a lot of ego.

00:31:36.760 I see a lot of people, for lack of a better term, having a dick measuring contest with a car that they drive or the placard that's on their office or their desk or their business card and all that stuff gets in the way.

00:31:46.060 It's all a distraction.

00:31:46.900 Yeah, I mean I think this is a great point.

00:31:49.000 It is difficult for a lot of men and myself too.

00:31:51.560 I'm not immune to being ego-driven or driven by my pride.

00:31:55.060 And nowhere am I.

00:31:55.920 Right.

00:31:56.260 Nor am I.

00:31:56.780 I'm far from perfect.

00:31:58.060 But I think it is a good distinction to understand that, hey, I don't have it all figured out.

00:32:02.720 Mentorship doesn't make you weak.

00:32:04.740 I mean you have you like an elite warrior who's mentoring under somebody else and yet we have these guys walking around thinking that because we're humble or somebody has to tell us or bring us under their wing,

00:32:15.140 somehow makes us weaker is kind of an interesting concept.

00:32:18.540 It is.

00:32:18.920 I mean I truly believe that you're a product of the people you surround yourself with.

00:32:23.320 You know, I would give myself as a SEAL, my career, I'd give myself a C.

00:32:27.500 But I feel like the people that I was fortunate to be surrounded by were A's all the time. 1.00

00:32:33.180 Not all of them.

00:32:33.780 Believe me, there were some F's in the SEAL teams as well.

00:32:35.980 But the number of high achieving A's is what allowed me to be the person that I am.

00:32:41.840 They did not only did they not push me down and step on my head to get to where they were, they would get out of the way and say, hey, here's the next wrong on the ladder.

00:32:49.600 How does, in your words, being a C affect your mentality?

00:32:52.940 Does that motivate you to get to a B or an A?

00:32:55.140 I know we're using this analogy.

00:32:56.540 Or is it just like I am what I am and here's what it is?

00:32:59.880 You should never be comfortable with your station in life.

00:33:02.480 And even if you're the best person in the world at fill in the blank as whatever it is that you do, you need to realize that you have a target on your back and people are clawing their way to try to get to where you are.

00:33:13.800 So wherever you are, wake up every day and try to make yourself better.

00:33:17.360 Now, the mistake I see people making is they try to make themselves 30% better in a short period of time.

00:33:22.620 And I would advise the exact opposite.

00:33:24.760 I'm talking 1% difference day over day over day.

00:33:27.940 If you can't do that, do a half a percent.

00:33:29.560 If you can't do that, do a quarter of a percent.

00:33:31.560 But put your feet in front of the other and keep going, never being satisfied with your station in life.

00:33:36.700 Always be a sponge and always have a direction that you want to travel to and never stop.

00:33:42.360 Yeah, I really like that you're talking about this 1% concept because I do see a lot of guys who think to themselves, I'm going to change everything about the way that I exercise and eat or the way that I communicate with my wife or the way that I show up at work.

00:33:57.540 And they do it for a week or two or if they're lucky a month and then they're completely burned out and they revert back to the old them.

00:34:03.740 So for sure, short-term success for a long-term failure.

00:34:07.480 I mean think about January 1st.

00:34:08.960 How many people who – and a lot of that I think has to do with in between the ears, right?

00:34:13.060 So how many people on New Year's Eve are crushing a bag of Doritos because on January 1, they're going to start their diet, right?

00:34:19.180 And they're going to lose 100 pounds.

00:34:20.400 Yeah.

00:34:20.840 But all they can think about is that 100 pounds instead of thinking at about one pound at a time or half of a pound.

00:34:26.820 And eventually, all human beings have this sine wave of emotion.

00:34:29.900 And on a good day when you're on the top, it's fine.

00:34:32.460 You can deal with that.

00:34:33.320 But if you find yourself in a valley, what ends up happening is you'll crumble, especially if all you can think about is how far you have to go as opposed to the inch right in front of your face.

00:34:42.360 So it's got to be incremental.

00:34:44.520 I mean change – I mean I don't know.

00:34:46.480 Maybe it does happen for some people.

00:34:47.960 But for me, large changes, it's incremental.

00:34:50.440 It is not instantaneous or overnight.

00:34:53.320 Well, and the hard part about this – and this goes back to one of the very first things that you had mentioned – is we see on Instagram this guy that goes from 250 pounds to 180 pounds.

00:35:02.680 And we see just the before and after, and we don't get to see the six months or the year or the 10 years of work that it took to get there.

00:35:10.920 I agree.

00:35:11.260 And that's why I said I dislike social media because the context of the story isn't told.

00:35:16.260 And to me, the picture is great.

00:35:18.280 But I am so interested in the journey that went from one person to the other.

00:35:23.000 That to me is the meat of potatoes, not the pictures on the end.

00:35:25.460 That's the reward.

00:35:26.100 This goes to something I've heard you say too, which is that you have really two choices.

00:35:30.940 You can either be disciplined or you can live in regret.

00:35:34.060 Can you talk to me about that?

00:35:35.340 Yeah.

00:35:35.840 A buddy of mine asked me one day, he's like, if you could tell people one thing to make a difference, what would it be?

00:35:40.500 And I was sitting there, and I was thinking about it, and I just came to the realization that – I mean, those are the two choices that you have in life.

00:35:47.760 If you have goals, maybe it's a job.

00:35:50.240 Maybe it's financial.

00:35:51.040 Maybe it's family.

00:35:51.820 Fill in the blank.

00:35:52.460 If you have a goal, you really have two choices.

00:35:55.640 You can have the discipline to do what you need to do to accept the incremental growth and improvement percentage points at a time and get to where you want to be because you did the things that you needed to every day for days and weeks and months and years.

00:36:10.780 Or you can look back at the end of your life with all of these things that you wish you could have done and regret it.

00:36:16.580 I mean, that's really the two choices you have in your life.

00:36:19.700 Yeah, I mean, I think just adhering to that and living to that and understanding – and even fast-forwarding.

00:36:25.440 One of the exercises I've done is I'll fast-forward five or ten years or 20 years or even my deathbed and think, what decision would I have regretted?

00:36:33.720 Okay, do the opposite of that.

00:36:35.160 Correct.

00:36:35.940 That's a powerful exercise to do that.

00:36:38.000 What about – one of the things you talk a lot about is moral callings.

00:36:41.600 And I can see there's definitely a moral calling in serving your country and serving your brothers-in-arms and doing the things that you did with your career as a SEAL.

00:36:49.700 How do you feel that belief and that idea ties in with what you're doing now?

00:36:54.800 I think it's all one and the same.

00:36:57.500 I think the military in and of itself kind of self-selects for a certain type of individual that has generally – not always – but generally a calling to try to do something greater than themselves.

00:37:09.020 Because military service, although it is very individually rewarding and there's – I mean, from the educational benefits to the health benefits, there's a ton of rewards that the individual can reap and benefit from.

00:37:19.980 At the end of the day, you sign on a dotted line to serve the Constitution, the President of the United States and the officers appointed under him, and you give up some of your constitutionally afforded rights.

00:37:30.760 Freedom of speech, you don't have that inside of the military.

00:37:33.580 It's service of others, doing something outside of yourself.

00:37:37.780 It's something that I wish I could almost force-feed on every American.

00:37:42.860 I would be very supportive of a two-year mandatory service, not even necessarily in the military.

00:37:48.260 I don't care if it's in the military or the Red Cross or the Peace Corps, but just a period in your life where you can get out and realize that you're actually not the center of the known universe.

00:37:58.640 I think it resets perspective.

00:38:01.220 I think it resets your view of the world.

00:38:03.580 I think it resets the view of your neighbor, of family, and how everything fits together.

00:38:07.680 And I think there would actually be a lot less people yelling at each other on social media if they actually got out and experienced the world with their own eyes as opposed to through an iPhone or computer screen.

00:38:17.160 Yeah, it's an interesting concept.

00:38:18.500 In my community, in our culture, we have young men at 18.

00:38:22.640 They go out into the world, across the world, and they serve a two-year church mission.

00:38:27.780 So it's amazing to see an 18-year-old kid come back who doesn't know anything about life to now this mature man to some capacity at least that has a very good understanding and a perspective about life that I don't think happens any other way.

00:38:42.620 There's something to be said for giving of yourself.

00:38:45.840 And if I had to describe our modern-day society, it would be me, me, me.

00:38:50.800 That's what I think it's all driven about.

00:38:52.340 And our country is going to consume itself until we can turn it back into a we, we, we society.

00:39:00.260 This is a good point to lead into one of the last questions that I want to ask you because I think it ties in nicely with what I assume you're probably going to say.

00:39:08.300 And my question for you is, what does it mean to be a man?

00:39:12.100 Yeah, I have these conversations with my sons.

00:39:14.460 I have a 14-year-old son, or getting ready to be 14 here shortly.

00:39:17.360 And my middle son just turned 12, and every day I try to drop them off at school.

00:39:22.900 Or we just moved to Montana, so in San Diego, I used to try to drop them both off at school.

00:39:26.760 And before they would get out of the car, I would make a point of, you know, having them look me in the eyes.

00:39:31.360 And I would say, you know, listen, I love you, and I'm proud of you.

00:39:34.600 Stand up for yourself.

00:39:36.040 Stand up for what you believe is right.

00:39:38.180 And they would go off to school.

00:39:39.300 And I tried to tell them that every single day so that they knew that it's okay to do the right thing.

00:39:45.700 And not only is it okay to do the right thing and to fight for what is right, that I expect them to do so.

00:39:51.180 And that the world and they will be a better place if they're willing to accept that risk and that obligation and that burden.

00:39:58.040 So to me, being a man is standing for what's right.

00:40:00.920 And people like to often argue about, well, you know, what's right to you is wrong to somebody else.

00:40:05.440 And no, you inherently know the difference between right and wrong.

00:40:09.760 I mean, look at a situation of somebody being bullied, the person doing the bullying, and the person being bullied.

00:40:14.660 Really not that hard to figure out where the right and wrong is in that situation.

00:40:18.540 Or, you know, people speaking to their spouses or how you conduct yourself in conversations with friends and family or how you conduct yourself with conversations in business.

00:40:26.400 It's being a man is about doing the right thing.

00:40:28.680 Not when you want to, but all the time.

00:40:31.120 Powerful, powerful stuff.

00:40:32.180 So, well, Andy, how do we connect with you, learn a little bit more about the work that you're doing, follow you, watch you do some wild and crazy stuff, and maybe even catch the podcast?

00:40:41.740 So I have the contractually obligated social media accounts for the supporters.

00:40:47.000 Which you are resistant to, it sounds like.

00:40:49.880 You know, it's just, again, I'm intimately aware of the fact that I'm not showing the whole picture.

00:40:55.180 Right.

00:40:55.280 Because, you know what I mean, it's just, not only do I not have the time to do it, but it would, people would bore people to death, but I just took pictures of me hiking in the backcountry, you know, 50 pictures in a row.

00:41:04.720 Right.

00:41:05.000 So, I have Instagram.

00:41:06.660 I think it's just my name.

00:41:07.600 It's Andy Stumpf, 212.

00:41:09.300 Twitter's the same thing.

00:41:10.260 It's a version of my name, Andy Stumpf.

00:41:12.180 I think that one's 77.

00:41:13.880 And then the podcast is just the Cleared Hot podcast.

00:41:16.700 You find it on, I mean, everywhere that they have the podcast stuff, iTunes and Stitcher.

00:41:21.040 And then the blog, if people want to check out the blog, it's easy to find.

00:41:24.200 It's confessionsofanidiot.com.

00:41:26.220 And there you go.

00:41:27.040 Right on.

00:41:27.280 And that's basically, that's where I am.

00:41:28.840 We'll link that all up so the guys know exactly where to go.

00:41:30.980 Andy, I appreciate you, man.

00:41:31.940 I've been following you for a while now and your adventure, your spirit, the moral calling that you feel like you have, man.

00:41:40.040 All of that stuff is inspiring to me and, of course, your service to our country.

00:41:42.920 So, I appreciate you and how you show up and you taking some time for us today.

00:41:46.300 My pleasure, man.

00:41:46.900 Really appreciate you taking the time to have me on.

00:41:49.660 Man, there it is.

00:41:50.420 My interview with Andy Stumpf.

00:41:51.960 I hope that you enjoyed this one as much as I did.

00:41:54.360 This is a guy that truly lives life on the edge.

00:41:57.020 And I think there's a lot to be said for living life that way.

00:41:59.840 If you did enjoy this interview, let me know on Twitter.

00:42:02.780 I'm getting a lot more active over there.

00:42:04.500 We're at Order of Man.

00:42:06.260 And also, if you would, let Andy know that you enjoyed the show.

00:42:08.720 This is a great way to let him know that you appreciate what he had to say, appreciate how he lives his life.

00:42:13.080 Thank him for his service.

00:42:14.460 And then also that you found him through this podcast.

00:42:16.360 He's on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, you name it.

00:42:18.260 He's there.

00:42:19.000 Other than that, guys, take a look at our exclusive brotherhood I told you about earlier.

00:42:21.780 Again, you are going to tap into this framework that I've spent almost 10 years now honing and refining and fine-tuning.

00:42:30.720 So, frankly, I've done all the legwork so you don't have to.

00:42:34.380 Again, if you're interested in that, you can go to orderofman.com slash ironcouncil.

00:42:39.180 Guys, I will look forward to talking with you on Friday for our Friday Field Notes.

00:42:42.800 But until then, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

00:42:45.940 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

00:42:50.040 If you're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be,

00:42:54.060 we invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

00:42:57.180 You're welcome.

00:43:01.280 Thanks for listening.

Order of Man - September 19, 2017

131： Living Life on the Edge ｜ Navy SEAL Andy Stumpf

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