Order of Man

00:00:00.000 Every single one of us has fallen a time or two in life and every one of us knows a man who has

00:00:04.760 failed to get back up from that fall. It's not an easy thing to overcome the wounds of failure,

00:00:10.080 but if we want to thrive, it is a requirement. My guest today, champion Muay Thai fighter Chris

00:00:15.480 Romulo joins me to talk about finding the fight in us, the difference between ego and confidence,

00:00:21.380 living by the mantra, fall seven times, stand up eight, and how to develop the fighter's mindset.

00:00:26.120 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart

00:00:31.320 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not

00:00:37.180 easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are.

00:00:44.360 This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:49.120 you can call yourself a man. Men, what is going on today? My name is Ryan

00:00:53.580 Mickler, and I am the host and the founder of this podcast, The Order of Man. Guys,

00:00:58.540 we have been on a roll lately, and I'm stoked that you've decided to join us today, whether

00:01:03.160 it's your first time listening to this show or your 200th time. At the end of the day,

00:01:07.720 guys, my goal is to help you become a better man, and this is a podcast about doing just

00:01:11.920 that. We talk about influence and leadership, fitness, nutrition, developing the proper mindset,

00:01:18.520 which is what we're going to be talking about today, and the skill sets that you need to thrive

00:01:22.360 in today's age where men are less than appreciated. We'll say it that way, less than appreciated,

00:01:28.500 to say the least. I want to be a better husband, a better father, business owner, community leader,

00:01:33.760 and I'm sure you do as well, which is why you're here, so we're going to help you do just that.

00:01:38.400 Now, three things, guys. I like to get right into the show, but I do want to share three things

00:01:41.800 real quick before I introduce you to my guest. Number one, if you would subscribe. Trust me,

00:01:46.620 guys, you are going to want to subscribe. I've done a couple of podcast interviews over the last

00:01:51.380 couple of days that I know, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt, you are going to be interested in.

00:01:57.420 Not only is the show that we have today a great one, but again, these next three shows that we

00:02:02.580 have lined up for you are killer, killer shows. So make sure you subscribe wherever you listen to

00:02:06.460 your podcast. Number two, join in our Facebook group. We've got roughly 38,000 men over there.

00:02:13.520 I just got done doing a Facebook live, which I usually do every couple of days on some new

00:02:19.000 information, new ideas. I talked about some go-to resources I use. So there's a lot of cool

00:02:23.140 resources over there in our Facebook group. You can check that out at facebook.com slash groups

00:02:27.720 slash order of man. And number three, and this is only if you're serious, this is if you're serious

00:02:32.860 about upping your game as a man, you're going to want to check out our exclusive brotherhood,

00:02:37.260 the iron council. I'm going to tell you a little bit more about it in the middle of the show during

00:02:41.500 our break. We do take a break, but for now you can see what we're all about and what we're up to

00:02:46.320 and claim your seat at the table at order of man.com slash iron council. Again, order of man.com

00:02:52.300 slash iron council. Now with that said, let me introduce you first to my guest today. His name

00:02:57.360 is Chris Romulo. You're going to hear how impressive this man is in my interview, but you're also going

00:03:02.300 to hear the humility, the humility that has turned Chris into a champion multiple times over. I think I

00:03:08.620 mentioned he's a six time Muay Thai champion and the author of the new book champions uprising. He is

00:03:14.580 also a fighting coach and an owner of a fitness and fighting gym where he teaches men and boys

00:03:19.960 how to fight, how to develop grit and determination. And of course, what we're going to be talking about

00:03:25.240 today, teaching them the fighters mindset, both inside the ring and out. Chris, what's up, man?

00:03:31.700 Thanks for joining me on the show today. Yeah. Honor to be here. Thanks, Ryan. I really appreciate the

00:03:36.240 time. Yeah. You know, it's been a challenge, right? I mean, what we've, we've had to reschedule what

00:03:40.560 four or five times now, which actually falls in line with what I think we're going to talk about,

00:03:44.680 which is, you know, fall seven times, stand up eight, right? Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's funny

00:03:48.860 because, uh, you know, life, life never quits, right? It keeps, uh, keeps throwing stuff at you

00:03:53.860 and you gotta, gotta react. That's right. That's right. Let's talk about this context of your book,

00:03:58.880 which is champions uprising. I'm really curious when you say uprising, because that's actually one of the

00:04:03.020 terms that we use for our live events. I'd love to get your take on that and see how that relates to

00:04:07.820 what we're doing with the word uprising and what that means to us. So when I say uprising,

00:04:12.940 obviously it's not a violent uprising. I'm not saying we need to pick up arms and take on some

00:04:20.060 dictator. I believe the uprising is, is in the mind. I mean, there are dictators of the mind that we

00:04:26.640 battle against on a daily basis. And the uprising is us as individuals saying, you know, that we can't

00:04:34.860 take, you know, decisive control over our thoughts and battle these, you know, these seven dictators

00:04:41.160 are, you know, on a regular. And that, that's the uprising I'm talking about. Is it as simple as

00:04:47.540 making the decision to change or what do you feel like is going to help somebody change their mindset

00:04:53.760 to more of this champion's mindset you're talking about? I believe it's that simple, but as always,

00:04:59.100 it's not, it's not always easy. You know, the, the decision is a very simple concept, but, you know,

00:05:05.640 there are complex ways to actually make that simple thought happen. But yeah, I believe it's as simple

00:05:12.600 as saying, you know, you know, what, what started it for me was when I was a young kid where, you know,

00:05:17.960 my father wasn't really in my life. And I remember making that decision in my head that I didn't want

00:05:23.660 to be the man that my dad was. And, you know, I didn't know exactly how to go about doing it or

00:05:29.620 what I was going to do at the time. But I just remember, you know, making that clear, you know,

00:05:35.420 affirmation and goal in my head. And, and it eventually, you know, came to fruition.

00:05:40.720 Yeah. I know when you talk about your father, not being there, I think if I remember correctly,

00:05:44.880 he was physically there, but maybe not mentally or emotionally there. Did I, did I understand that

00:05:49.160 correctly? Yeah, that's definitely exactly what it was like. My, you know,

00:05:53.360 my parents are still married. My father's still around, but he was, yeah, emotionally and, and

00:05:59.540 psychologically not in my life from as early as I can remember, maybe at about seven or eight years

00:06:05.280 old. And yeah, that, that was when, when my, you know, inciting incident, I guess, for, for my

00:06:11.480 uprising started. Can you walk me through that? I know, I know a little bit about it just because

00:06:16.060 I've read the book, but can you walk us through what that moment was like and how your universe,

00:06:22.020 your world changed after that? You know, especially putting the book together, it brought

00:06:26.700 up, you know, a lot of emotions that I've pushed down, you know, for a long time, but I still

00:06:34.920 struggle with it daily. You know, I'm 42 years old. I've never had a conversation, you know,

00:06:39.800 a full conversation with my dad. It caused a lot of, you know, confusion and self-doubt in

00:06:45.820 my life where, you know, I wasn't getting the guidance that, you know, every, every young man

00:06:51.540 needs or even, you know, whatever, any child needs. And I made a lot of bad decisions. I started,

00:06:58.040 you know, running the streets and, you know, not doing well in school and, and thinking that I had

00:07:04.460 to try to fit in with, you know, the tough crowd in the neighborhood that I was growing up in. And,

00:07:10.420 you know, I didn't grow up in the worst of neighborhoods, but, you know, it definitely,

00:07:13.760 it was about trying to prove, you know, you were strong enough to survive. And with a lot of those,

00:07:20.060 you know, decisions that I was making, you know, I found myself in an altercation that, you know,

00:07:25.640 that changed my life and almost ended my life. So any kid that maybe feels like, you know, that

00:07:31.440 their father or maybe their mother isn't around for them, that it does require both parents. I really

00:07:37.140 believe that. And since my dad wasn't around again, my mom did the best that she could, but I made a lot

00:07:42.760 of decisions that looking back could have done better, but you know what, it shaped me into the

00:07:48.080 man that I am today. The reason I'm going to ask this next question is because as I've talked about

00:07:53.220 my father, not being fully in the picture by the time I was three years old. And of course,

00:07:57.500 you've had that in a different context. And there's millions of men across the planet that are in very

00:08:02.520 similar situations to you. And I, I have these conversations every single day. Where does a guy go

00:08:07.960 or even begin to look if he feels like he's never had this guidance and direction from either his

00:08:13.680 father or even a father figure? I know you found a lot of this in the ring. Is that somewhere? Where

00:08:18.980 else should a guy go to, to figure this out for himself? I believe it takes digging deep, you know,

00:08:24.800 introspective. I mean, really finding what really keeps you happy. Yeah. There, there are obviously

00:08:30.420 external, you know, the external world can help you in your journey and in your path. But I think it

00:08:37.100 really starts again as, as a decision within you, what is it that really, you know, I would believe

00:08:42.940 that a man would need to sit down and find out what's their why. And, and I found, I was lucky

00:08:49.600 enough to find that out early on, you know, and I stuck with it, you know, I'm still sticking with

00:08:54.980 it till this day, you know, again, our purpose, you know, a real deep down purpose. And maybe

00:09:00.120 it's not just, you know, making a lot of money or starting a business and, you know, you know,

00:09:06.560 being the tough guy in the neighborhood or what have you, not stuff like that. I'm, I'm talking

00:09:10.520 about what is it that really wakes you up and gets you out of bed and, and makes you strive for more

00:09:16.140 to become a better, better man, a better dad, a better, you know, son, you know, a better husband,

00:09:22.440 you know, what is it that really drives you? And I believe that's what somebody should really find

00:09:27.380 out. What does that look like for you? What is your purpose? What is your why?

00:09:32.220 My why has always been, and still is to, to make a name for myself. You know, my dad spent a lot of

00:09:37.760 time sitting at the kitchen table with his head buried in mounds and books of, of numbers that he

00:09:44.780 was trying to figure out a way to win the lotto or bet on some horse that was going to hit it big for

00:09:50.560 him. And, you know, believe it or not, that showed me desire and persistence, you know, even though for

00:09:57.820 him, it was in a, in a way that was, wasn't constructive, but, you know, I decided from

00:10:03.240 early on that I wanted to make sure that Romulo name had some kind of meaning, not meaning, not

00:10:08.740 just, you know, wishing on a dream, you know, making, you know, taking my dreams and making

00:10:14.940 them happen in a constructive way. And that's what I'm doing now, my gym here in Rockaway beach. And,

00:10:20.880 and now speaking to the youth and trying to help kids understand that no matter what struggles

00:10:27.120 they're going through, that they, they can start their own uprising and create a name for

00:10:31.840 themselves and a, and a vision and a dream and, and, and chase their passions.

00:10:36.820 Yeah. I love that. And it obviously stems from your childhood, which is actually really

00:10:41.540 interesting because I've met a lot of guys, yourself included, and I fall into this category

00:10:44.860 as well that have found a way to use hardship and adversity to become better people. But on the

00:10:52.840 flip side of that, I think there's, again, millions of men across the planet who use hardship

00:10:56.560 hardship and trial and adversity and struggle as a, an excuse, frankly, to crumble and resign

00:11:04.000 to that life of mediocrity or complacency or even worse. What separates the guys who use

00:11:09.560 adversity and succeed, stand up eight times like you talk about, and the guys that decide

00:11:14.620 to stay down?

00:11:15.940 Well, like you said, Ryan, it's just that decision of saying, you know what, this is a part of my

00:11:22.320 life and a part of everybody's life. And, you know, there, there are no peaks without valleys.

00:11:27.960 There are no wins without losses. If a man can just, you know, understand and decide that

00:11:33.120 this is just part of the journey. Like, you know, again, writing my book, I'm blessed by the adversity

00:11:39.640 that I faced early on in life, getting my face smashed in a street fight, not having my father

00:11:45.720 there and, and maybe not doing the right things to do the, you know, to do my best in school.

00:11:51.060 Like now I love reading and I love writing and I love knowledge, you know, ultimately it's,

00:11:56.940 it's self-knowledge. And back when I was in high school, I could care less about those things. But

00:12:01.700 again, those setbacks and that confusion really pushed me to where I am today. And if a man can

00:12:08.340 understand that what they go through, what drags them through the dirt is what eventually is going

00:12:14.220 to pick them up and put them back up on their feet so they can run full speed. That's what it's

00:12:19.660 going to take. You talk about a concept in the book, which I've actually had other guests talk

00:12:24.740 about. And this is the concept of rhythm, rhythm in your life. Some people might refer to it as flow.

00:12:30.960 I've heard it referred to as, or even with athletes being in the zone. And I think it's hard to

00:12:35.840 articulate because we see an athlete and we can recognize when that athlete or performer in whatever

00:12:40.820 capacity that is, is in that zone. Yet it's kind of like that X factor. Can you walk me through?

00:12:46.300 Cause you seem to have found your rhythm in life. And I feel like I'm getting to that point. Can you

00:12:51.240 walk me through what you mean when you're talking about rhythms? It's, I guess, knowing those openings

00:12:57.760 and you know, more, it's more so, I guess, yeah, rhythm and timing as a young fighter. When I first

00:13:04.960 stepped in the ring, it was, you know, I thought it was supposed to be like a street fight and you were

00:13:09.180 just so supposed to go balls to the wall until your, your guy was incapacitated. But over the

00:13:15.940 years, you know, I learned that, you know, you have to have patience and you have to have,

00:13:21.200 you know, strategy and calculations. Ring fighting is a lot like chess. There are moves that are leading

00:13:28.220 to other moves. You can't just think about the one move ahead. You got to think two or three steps

00:13:33.700 down the line. So that rhythm and timing plays back into life. If you're just kind of living

00:13:40.460 life on a day to day basis without having an ultimate, you know, target or, you know, a goal

00:13:47.600 or a dream in mind. Yeah. Then people will, will not find that, that timing and that rhythm. But I

00:13:53.660 believe if you, again, if you are able to find your why and your purpose, it might help you,

00:13:59.720 you know, settle down. But that doesn't mean that we're not going to make mistakes. I mean,

00:14:03.760 mistakes are, are, are part of the journey, but I guess that's where you can develop your timing and

00:14:09.960 your rhythm from making those mistakes and knowing, anticipating, you know, especially in a ring fight,

00:14:15.560 anticipating what your opponent is going to be throwing at you instead of just waiting to react,

00:14:21.300 you know? So yeah, the rhythm and timing is a, is a big thing and it doesn't just help combat

00:14:28.520 athletes. It, it helps, you know, it would help a man in, in any kind of journey in life.

00:14:33.720 We see this a lot specifically with athletes that compete in the ring or octagon, uh, whatever it

00:14:39.400 may be, where it's kind of like they're testing their opponent, right? And they're trying to get a

00:14:44.000 gauge. Okay. Here's how this guy moves here. Here's how this guy reacts. Here's how this guy behaves.

00:14:47.900 I've never been in the ring. So correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there's opportunities for us

00:14:53.300 to learn there. And usually what people will do is they'll not even step foot in the ring,

00:14:57.760 knowing that they don't quite understand what's going to go on versus someone like yourself who

00:15:01.900 gets into the ring and is actually learning and using that as feedback. Am I understanding this

00:15:07.380 correctly? Yeah, that's totally accurate. I'll always be the first to say that whatever I've learned

00:15:13.460 through my martial arts and, you know, ring combat years has geared me up for the fight of life. I

00:15:20.260 really believe life is a fight and there's no way to separate what happens in the ring as, you know,

00:15:27.880 what happens in life. Life is going to be throwing kicks, punches, knees, and elbows. And if you're an

00:15:33.460 MMA fighter, it's going to be, you know, trying to take you down to the ground and you're either going

00:15:38.460 to lose and learn or you're going to win and keep evolving. And that's the beauty of it. That's the

00:15:44.320 beauty of the life of fights or the fight of life. Has there been points in your life, whether it's

00:15:49.900 through your career as a fighter or just in other aspects, maybe that's even ownership of the gym

00:15:55.100 where you thought, I'm going to throw in the towel and just be done? Or is this always a mindset

00:16:00.100 that you've had to continue to keep driving on? No, I'd be lying if I said that. Again,

00:16:05.420 every day is a struggle. It's an uprising to reestablish. Why am I doing this? Why am I

00:16:14.140 as a business owner and a gym owner, the struggles are here every day. I'm sure you understand that

00:16:19.120 too, right? You know, as, as an entrepreneur that, you know, sometimes you're going to have

00:16:24.560 to question yourself. You have to dig deep and figure out. It's funny because a couple of weeks

00:16:29.440 ago, I told my wife, you know, cause maybe I wasn't being as appreciative and grateful for

00:16:35.220 the things that we've done, you know, here in the gym and in our community. I told my wife, I said,

00:16:40.540 you know what, maybe I need to go work a regular nine to five for a week to really have appreciation

00:16:47.040 for what it is that we have here at the gym. Cause sometimes, you know, I have young fighters here

00:16:51.820 who are bringing up through the game. And, you know, sometimes I feel like they're not working.

00:16:56.820 It's hard or they were not working up to my expectations because my expectations when I

00:17:02.520 was a competitive fighter, uh, were so high, but you know what? I need to have that appreciation

00:17:08.680 that I have the young to guide or bring up through the sport. Just the fact that we have 300 members

00:17:16.820 in our gym. When we first started out, it was like 50 or 60 members that we would scrape together. And

00:17:22.540 now after Hurricane Sandy, we're, we're super blessed to have gone from, you know, from that

00:17:28.460 to where we are, you know? So yeah, I struggle with it every day. Am I being appreciative? Am I having

00:17:35.320 gratitude for the, the big things and the little things that we've achieved?

00:17:40.860 So let's talk about Hurricane Sandy, because I know that that basically wiped everything out for

00:17:46.880 you, right? Your gym, home. I mean, it, it sounds like a pretty, uh, pretty intense experience.

00:17:52.200 How do you come back from something like that?

00:17:54.860 You know what? It was a decision, a decision to say, you know, my, my wife was sitting at the,

00:18:01.320 at my mom's kitchen table as we were, you know, watching Hurricane Sandy roll through on the news

00:18:06.920 back in 2012. You know, our gym was getting basically drowned in six feet of water. And as my wife,

00:18:15.420 Sarah was crying, I told her, I was like, we're going to come back bigger and better than before.

00:18:20.060 I did again. I didn't just like when I was a kid, I didn't know how, I didn't know what was the

00:18:25.860 process going to be, but I just remember thinking we can't quit. There's, there's no quitting us.

00:18:32.540 We're going to figure out a way. We're going to put it out there in the universe, whether it's the

00:18:37.440 law of attraction or, you know, just having again, that mindset to say, we're not going to quit.

00:18:43.580 We're going to be fighters. We're going to, we're going to take on this new fight of life and we're

00:18:48.400 going to get back up on our feet. And we did. And so it goes back to saying that, yeah, it was

00:18:53.860 a decision in the head. I believe everything starts in the mind and then projects its way out,

00:18:59.800 you know, where maybe some people might think it's the opposite, where they're looking for some,

00:19:05.040 some sign for them to find it in themselves to dig deep and motivate. You don't need a sign. You don't

00:19:12.020 need, you don't need a clue or a hint. It has to start within you to say, this is what I want.

00:19:20.260 And this is what I'm going to do. And I'm going to fight, you know, with my heart to get it.

00:19:24.880 Do you enjoy the fight? The reason I asked that is because I think there's a couple of different

00:19:30.000 type of people in the world. And I think one type of man enjoys the fight. Like he enjoys getting

00:19:35.360 dirty. He enjoys being in the mix. He enjoys even to a degree, metaphorically getting punched in the

00:19:40.980 face or in your case, literally getting punched in the face versus the guy who says, no, I want to

00:19:45.500 sit on the sidelines. I don't really want to get dirty. I just want to rise above all this. Talk to

00:19:49.100 me about that. I always make this joke that if you're a competitive fighter willing to step in

00:19:56.280 the ring and risk it all, you're a masochist to some degree. So yeah, I guess I do like the fight.

00:20:02.380 I don't mind being in the struggle and in the dirt and figuring out what I'm made of. And

00:20:10.260 that was a lot of my younger years too. But I guess for the men out there that feel like they want to

00:20:17.280 sit on the sidelines, whether you're on the sidelines or whether you're in the fight, you're

00:20:22.480 going to get stuff thrown at you. So you might as well learn how to fight, right?

00:20:26.200 That's a good point. I mean, at this point, when it comes to life versus the ring,

00:20:30.480 you don't really have a decision whether you can sit out or not. You're in the deal.

00:20:35.700 Right. Yeah, it makes sense.

00:20:38.100 So you talk about also in the book where you start to settle into the fight is the term that you use.

00:20:46.220 And I think this comes with a certain level of maturity and I'm sure it comes with a level of

00:20:50.980 patience and practice and training. How does one settle into the fight of life like we're talking

00:20:58.280 about now? I would say that, yeah, it comes back to training and ring experience. The training is

00:21:06.780 you as an individual wanting to expand and grow and keep learning, whether it's about ring fighting or

00:21:16.280 whether it's about finance or whether it's about being a great father and husband. As long as you're

00:21:21.780 reaching for more. And, you know, what I call being hungry as a fighter, you know, the hunger should

00:21:27.920 always be there. No matter whether you win or you lose, you're looking to move one step further up

00:21:33.200 the ladder. And I would say that that hunger is going to help you settle into the fight and get

00:21:42.440 comfortable. And the ring experience, meaning just, you know, again, accepting the losses,

00:21:48.540 accepting what life is going to throw at you and saying, you know what, I've, I made it through

00:21:54.120 this scenario or situation. I'm still alive. I'm blessed to be able to roll out of bed and put my

00:22:00.780 feet on the ground and start another day. That experience and that kind of hunger is what's going

00:22:07.180 to help you settle into the rhythm and the timing of life. Can you replicate hunger? What I mean by that

00:22:14.680 is generally speaking, I think most of us don't ever need to be hungry in our life, right? Like

00:22:20.200 if you look around in society today, everything's pretty cushy, everything's pretty comfortable.

00:22:24.000 You can avoid friction at your work or in a relationship. There's so many eases that we have.

00:22:31.000 It's very easy to be complacent. So how does that complacency differ from settling into the fight?

00:22:38.520 What I like to think about is, you know, I've been through, not just me, but my entire community,

00:22:44.760 the Rockaway community and communities surrounding. We've been through an event

00:22:48.600 that showed us that life can change on the drop of a dime, you know, in less than 24 hours.

00:22:55.900 My family and a lot of other families here in the Rockaway communities were left with nothing,

00:23:01.100 not a home to come back to, not a business. We were left with the clothes on our back. I was lucky

00:23:06.820 enough to have a car that was high and dry. And we were able to get around from my mother's house

00:23:14.220 to a friend's house to at least, you know, stay in the fight. But that is the key, just having that

00:23:20.780 appreciation and understanding and knowing that life can change really quickly. And that would help

00:23:27.560 somebody believe that there is small things to love. There's a big dream and a big goal, but you

00:23:35.380 should always be ready for that change, that transition. Yeah. I mean, we all know that,

00:23:41.360 yeah, like you said, life does change very, very quickly without warning, without hesitation,

00:23:45.600 and it's violent at times. And so I think that level of preparation is critical and also just a

00:23:49.920 realistic expectation, which I think you've probably replicated over and over again when it comes to

00:23:56.560 being inside the ring, because you recognize that this guy literally wants to rip your head off

00:24:00.740 and you've got to do what you can to defend yourself and be violent as well.

00:24:05.840 Yeah. Unfortunately, that is part of the sport, you know, and it really helps you become vulnerable,

00:24:12.480 I think. Once you step in the ring and you're willing to bear it all and, you know, I've been

00:24:18.340 knocked out in front of my eight-year-old son and I've been close to losing, you know, losing a fight in

00:24:26.280 front of my wife and my pregnant wife at the time that really helps you become vulnerable in life

00:24:32.660 and really accept the challenges and the risk of losing it all again. And I don't mind, you know,

00:24:41.400 in life, I don't mind looking stupid anymore. And I think that that's a little bit of that mindset

00:24:46.600 that you need to be, you know, audacious and step out of your shell and being, you know, willing to risk,

00:24:53.020 you know, ridicule at some degrees in your life, you know, whether you're a business owner again, or,

00:24:59.060 you know, you know, a father or a husband, you know, I mean, being vulnerable is,

00:25:05.340 I think is the key to accepting the challenges and moving forward.

00:25:11.480 Men, let's just take a quick pause from the conversation. I want to introduce you to our

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00:27:53.200 said, stitchfix.com slash orderofman and orderofman.com slash iron council. Let's get back to that

00:27:59.780 conversation with Chris. What's the conversation sound like that you have with your eight-year-old son

00:28:05.920 after being knocked out in front of him? There wasn't a lot said. I remember, you know,

00:28:10.920 especially after bringing up a lot of memories and putting my book together. There wasn't a lot

00:28:16.900 said. You know, my dad, unfortunately, I took a lot of habits from my dad growing up where there

00:28:22.680 wasn't a lot said from my dad. So I think it was more the actions that hopefully sat with him really

00:28:29.680 well where I was back in the gym a month later after that loss. You know, I suffered some heavy

00:28:37.340 knee damage in that fight and I was out for a little bit. But even with the knee damage that I

00:28:42.900 had, I was back in the gym trying to figure out a way to, you know, get back in the game and get back

00:28:48.000 in the fight. So again, I didn't say much to him, but again, hopefully he understands that, you know,

00:28:53.680 no matter what that scenario was like for me, as tough as it was, it took me 13 months to actually

00:29:01.080 get back in the fight game. I jumped back up as quickly as I possibly could and I kept moving forward.

00:29:06.920 I kept chasing and hunting down my dreams. So yeah, I think it was more the actions that sat

00:29:13.720 with him and only time will tell. My son, my eight-year-old who there at the time is now 19

00:29:19.760 and he's on his own journey of life and feel like he's heading in the right direction. And,

00:29:26.260 you know, only time will tell to see if that the struggles that he's going to face eventually,

00:29:32.100 will he be able to bounce back and say, you know what, this is just a part of what life is

00:29:36.880 going to be like. Yeah. I think you bring up a really good distinction here because there's

00:29:41.040 sometimes things need to be said and other times it just means get back to work. And so I think

00:29:45.220 the action of getting back into the gym and the action of getting back into the ring actually speaks

00:29:50.880 volume to a young impressionable child. Yeah, I really, I hope and I believe so.

00:29:58.680 Wow. So let's talk about you going into retirement because did you fight for about a decade? Remind

00:30:06.260 me how long you fought for? Professionally that is. Professionally, yeah, close to a decade. I mean,

00:30:12.280 amateur and professional wise, I started back in the mid nineties and I retired in 2011. That was my

00:30:20.460 last fight. So I imagine you to some degree, or maybe even a large degree defined yourself by you

00:30:29.360 being a fighter. And I think there's a lot of guys that have titles that they define themselves on.

00:30:36.060 One that I can think of in particular is a soldier. I know a lot of soldiers get out of the military and

00:30:40.880 they've defined themselves as a soldier or a Marine for so long that it's very difficult for them now

00:30:47.260 to find new purpose. What was that experience like for you? You know what? I'm not going to say

00:30:53.020 it was easy, but again, it was, it was simple. The decision to say, I want to move on to a new

00:31:00.920 chapter in my life. You know, when I retired in 2011, my last fight, you know, wasn't the greatest

00:31:07.840 fight I've had. You know, I went out on a law switch and, and I'll, and I'm okay with that. And

00:31:12.720 I knew that, you know, my family. And at the time we were just building our gym required my full

00:31:21.120 attention. And I was willing to make the sacrifice of leaving the fighting life behind and start a new

00:31:28.460 life. And again, be, you know, I guess it comes back to being hungry. You know, I wanted more,

00:31:34.160 I wanted to be more than I looked forward, actually, you know, looking forward into my life when,

00:31:40.840 you know, when all was said and done, did I want to be known as just a fighter? And I remember

00:31:46.940 saying to myself, no, that's not who I want to be. I don't want to be just, you know, the fighter from

00:31:52.560 New York who fought a bunch of great fights and, you know, put New York Muay Thai on the map. I wanted

00:31:58.980 to be known as someone who, again, was giving back. You know, as a fighter, you, you somewhat give back

00:32:04.640 to the crowd who's there and, you know, you put on a show, but I wanted to give back in, in bigger and

00:32:09.840 better ways. And that's why the gym is my dream come true. And now again, being a public speaker

00:32:16.680 and reaching out to the youth and helping them find their own champions uprising, that's how I'm

00:32:22.080 evolving. And that's how I'm keeping the dream alive. Did you get much pushback when you decided

00:32:27.720 to retire and specifically on a loss from either coaches or trainers or teammates? And if so, how did

00:32:35.260 you deal with that pushback? You know, I, I, I did, I remember a few people saying, you know,

00:32:41.480 you, you've got a couple of fights left in you. And again, it came back to the timing and the rhythm.

00:32:47.800 I felt like the timing and the rhythm was correct for this transition in my life. And, and I haven't

00:32:54.260 looked back, you know, obviously, you know, I still go to the fights and watch fights on TV. And I,

00:32:59.240 and I think to myself, you know what, maybe I do have one more, but then again, I'm 42 years old

00:33:05.300 and fighting is a young man's sport. So I know, I feel in my heart that I've made the right decision

00:33:11.540 and things have been moving forward ever since I retired. So I, I, I haven't let, you know,

00:33:18.620 those words sit in me and, and guide me. I've taken control and I've said, you know, I've told

00:33:24.320 myself, you know what, there are bigger things out there. There's a whole entire globe out there

00:33:29.940 for me to, to experience and try to do my best to pass on what I've learned. And, and that's why

00:33:37.360 I'm here. I want to go back to something you said about a half an hour ago, which was basically the

00:33:42.920 start of our conversation. And I had made a note here. You talked about the seven dictators of the

00:33:49.420 champions uprising. And I'm sure that we talked about a lot of them. Is there one or two more

00:33:53.700 dictators that you would suggest that we adhere to or really latch onto or learn more about?

00:34:00.180 As a martial artist, you know, since I was about eight years old, I think the biggest dictator

00:34:07.220 that we struggle with as men and as fathers, husbands and business owners is, is ego. It's such a tricky

00:34:15.860 thing. You know, that ego, we need a little bit of ego as a fighter and maybe as an entrepreneur

00:34:21.880 to take on new ventures and to step into the ring against somebody with 10 times more experience

00:34:28.380 than you, you know, that ego needs to be there. But sometimes that ego can be overinflated as we all

00:34:35.040 know. And once that happens, that's where the trouble begins. So I really believe that if we can

00:34:41.200 figure out how to manage our ego as men and as individuals, you know, things will again, not get

00:34:48.200 easy, but we'll get simpler, you know, so ego, I would say is, is the biggest dictator that we could

00:34:54.720 at least appreciate and have gratitude for so that we can try to, you know, do our best to make that

00:35:01.620 decisive or make that decision to control it. I know for me, overcoming ego has been a matter of

00:35:09.460 putting myself in difficult circumstances, not dangerous, but difficult circumstances that I may not

00:35:15.060 be adequately prepared for. Would you agree with that? Or would you add anything to that?

00:35:20.360 No, I totally agree. I mean, again, that adversity, you know, that is what, that's what strengthens us.

00:35:27.240 That's what really puts us in our power place. We can't evolve without challenging and testing

00:35:34.240 ourselves, whether it's on a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly basis, you know, you know, that's where that,

00:35:41.340 again, it comes back to that hunger. Do you want to keep moving up that ladder and to do that? Yeah.

00:35:47.920 Face adversity, face challenge. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's been such a valuable thing and it certainly

00:35:53.260 painted a little bit more accurate picture of how adequately prepared and trained I am in whatever

00:36:00.260 capacity we might be addressing. So it's, it's definitely up to my game when I put myself, whether

00:36:04.780 that's speaking in front of a larger audience or participating in some physical event that I

00:36:09.660 don't feel completely ready for. Yeah. I mean, and I know you're a CrossFitter too, right, Ryan?

00:36:15.560 I am. Yeah. And that it's funny because what better challenge to face than, you know, a CrossFit

00:36:22.520 training session? I mean, you know, as a fighter, you know, the ring has always been a crazy experience,

00:36:28.460 but ever since retiring and I've involved myself in a little more different styles of training,

00:36:34.620 you know, a WOD has just been the most, the closest thing I can get to a fight without

00:36:40.560 actually getting, you know, punched in the face. Sure. Sure. Yeah. I bet. Do you think there's any

00:36:45.540 danger? I just want to take an alternate perspective here. Do you think there's any

00:36:48.380 danger in looking at everything in life as a fight? And I'm sure you probably do even to a larger

00:36:53.840 capacity just because of the nature of your, your, uh, your career. I'm curious about your thoughts on

00:36:58.340 that. No, I don't see that there is any, any danger to it. I mean, think about, think about

00:37:04.820 where we came from as humans, where we evolved from every day that we woke up and decided to go

00:37:10.760 out into the fields and hunt for our food. It was, you know, it was a fight and, you know, I don't see

00:37:17.340 why that should change over the, you know, the thousands of years that we've been on this, you know,

00:37:22.020 this planet life is a fight. Uh, being an entrepreneur is a fight, you know, unfortunately, you know,

00:37:28.080 being a parent can be a fight, you know, your, your kids are going to throw stuff at you,

00:37:32.880 you know, not physically, but mentally and psychologically and emotionally, they're going

00:37:36.880 to throw stuff at you that you might've never seen before. And, you know, you can't hit back.

00:37:42.280 You've got to, you got to maybe defend and evade just like being in the ring and figure out a new

00:37:48.740 strategy to try to talk to your kids or how to deal with some adversity that's going on. And,

00:37:54.680 you know, for me right now, there's some adversity that I'm dealing with in the

00:37:57.960 gym as, as a business owner. And, you know, it's a struggle. That's what a fight is. It's

00:38:03.560 a struggle between two opposing parties or individuals. And hopefully there's going to

00:38:09.880 be a winner. And sometimes there's going to be a loser and accepting loss and accepting the

00:38:15.660 wins is just part of the game. I'm really curious about the board behind you. You and me are on video

00:38:21.400 right now. So anybody listening to this can't see that, but I'm always curious about, cause I've got a

00:38:25.760 board here in my office as well. And I've got things on here, walk me through maybe some of

00:38:29.760 the things that you've got on that board and the relevancy of that. If this is things that we

00:38:33.860 should incorporate in our life. Cause I see a bunch of pictures there. I see some notes. I see some

00:38:37.660 acronyms. That's my vision board. And from what it sounds like you have one too. And that's just

00:38:43.000 for me to visually stay on track. You know, I, it's got, you know, some Muay Thai fighters up there

00:38:50.140 that I've, you know, admired over the years. It's got, you know, kettlebell, you know, some pictures

00:38:55.940 of kettlebells, some places where I, of where I would love to travel and, you know, hopefully

00:39:00.860 vacation, uh, sometime in the near future. So again, it's just visual targets. Just like, uh, I noticed

00:39:07.640 you just started, uh, shooting bows and arrows, right? Yes. Yes, I did. And it's just a target on the

00:39:14.440 wall. Literally, you know, I mean, if you, what are you shooting at? If you don't have a bullseye to

00:39:19.060 aim at? So those are my bullseyes, you know, just, you know, certain things that I want to accomplish

00:39:23.980 that I haven't been able to, to do yet. And again, if I have my eyes fixed on the prize, just like,

00:39:31.100 you know, when wanting to win a ring fight, if you don't focus on winning, there's no way you're ever

00:39:36.260 going to win, you know? So that those are my targets. Those are my bullseyes on the wall there.

00:39:41.020 I love it. I love it. Thanks for sharing. Well, Chris, we're winding down on time, man. I want to

00:39:44.380 ask you a couple additional questions and the guys are prepared for it. I hope you are. That

00:39:47.660 first question is, what does it mean to be a man? I believe being a man is finding your true passion

00:39:55.020 in life, your desires or your why, you know, finding what really gets you out of bed, whether

00:40:01.800 it's being, uh, you know, again, a father, entrepreneur, you know, ring fighter, soldier,

00:40:07.760 you know, what really floats your boat and then fighting for that dream till the very end.

00:40:12.560 I love it. Powerful stuff. Well, Chris, how do we connect with you? How do we get to know

00:40:16.920 you a little bit better and pick up a copy of the book if we feel so inclined?

00:40:20.880 So Champions Uprising, my memoir is on Amazon and you can pick that up in Kindle or paperback

00:40:26.780 version. My website is always accessible, chrisromulo.com. Obviously I'm on Facebook,

00:40:34.060 chrisromulo, aka crom, also on Instagram and, and Twitter and LinkedIn. So all the heavy hitters,

00:40:42.040 I guess. Right on. Yeah. We'll link all that up in the show notes so the guys can check it out.

00:40:45.820 Chris, I appreciate you. I got to tell you, man, I always respect and admire fighters. We've had

00:40:51.040 fighters on the show. We've had soldiers on the show. Uh, these are guys that just put their money

00:40:56.600 where their mouth is and your willingness to step into the ring against an opponent, but also against

00:41:01.260 yourself is inspiring to me. I love seeing it. I'm inspired by the work that you're doing and who

00:41:06.940 you are and how you've showed up in the world. So I appreciate the opportunity to talk with you,

00:41:10.200 man. No, thank you, Ryan. It's an honor. It's an always, always an honor to share, you know,

00:41:15.000 my message and my story and, and to learn about you as well. So thank you. Right on brother.

00:41:21.140 Such a great conversation today about the fighter's mindset. I know there's a ton of information that

00:41:26.500 we talked about today. We kind of bounced around a little bit. So if you want to learn more

00:41:29.960 and pick up a copy of Chris's book, Champions Uprising, head to orderofman.com

00:41:35.200 slash one three, three slash one three, three, make sure you let Chris know where you heard

00:41:41.140 about us and him and what you enjoyed about our conversation today, if you would. And then one

00:41:45.440 last thing, make sure you check out our exclusive brotherhood. Again, the iron council battle plan

00:41:50.120 guys, we start our new battle plans October 1st. So again, this is the perfect time to grab hold of

00:41:55.000 life, to do things that you've never done before. And of course, experience life in a way that you

00:41:59.780 never have because you're doing those different things. Again, head to orderofman.com slash iron

00:42:04.980 council, orderofman.com slash iron council. And remember guys, subscribe, subscribe. We've got

00:42:10.320 those three podcast interviews that you are not going to want to miss. So just hit the little

00:42:14.740 subscribe button wherever you listen to the shows. But until then, and until Friday for our Friday

00:42:19.600 field notes, take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the

00:42:25.860 order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant

00:42:30.880 to be. We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

133： The Fighter's Mindset ｜ Chris Romulo

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