Order of Man - 136： Lewis Howes ｜ The Mask of Masculinity

00:00:00.240 Recognizing that we as men wear masks might just be one of the most difficult self-evaluation

00:00:04.740 processes that we can go through. It's difficult because sometimes we've been wearing the mask for

00:00:10.080 so long that it actually becomes part of who we are and how we define ourselves. My guest today,

00:00:15.260 New York Times bestselling author Lewis Howes, joins me to talk about why men are failing on

00:00:19.800 so many benchmarks, how to recognize and confront what is holding you and I back as men,

00:00:24.880 why the masks we wear hinder our personal growth and the nine masks of masculinity.

00:00:30.960 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your

00:00:35.840 own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time you are not easily

00:00:41.820 deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is

00:00:49.140 who you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said and done, you can call yourself

00:00:54.520 a man. Men, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler and I am the host and the founder of

00:01:00.180 this podcast, The Order of Man. I am sure that you are aware by now that we have had a killer,

00:01:06.320 a killer lineup over the past couple of weeks. First, Gary John Bishop. Last week we had Jocko

00:01:11.500 Willink and this week we've got Lewis Howes. It's like the perfect trifecta or hat trick,

00:01:18.180 if you will, of podcast guests. I'm glad you're tuning in and catching all of this. It's what we're all

00:01:23.100 about. Interviewing some extremely successful men, unpackaging their ideas and their thoughts

00:01:28.540 and their insights, systems, processes, whatever it may be, and then we're delivering them straight

00:01:33.080 to you. So if you haven't already done so, make sure that you subscribe to this podcast. You

00:01:37.800 keep tuning in and we will keep bringing on a killer lineup. Guys, just a couple of quick

00:01:43.020 announcements and housekeeping items today. First, if you wouldn't have not already done this,

00:01:47.260 head over to facebook.com slash groups slash Order of Man and join our Facebook group. We've

00:01:54.660 got almost 38,000 men now having some follow-up conversations about this podcast and about any

00:02:00.580 other conversation you might want to have. And second, if you gain any value from this conversation

00:02:05.600 or Lewis Howes' new book, give us both a shout out on Twitter or Instagram, Facebook, wherever you do

00:02:11.560 your social media thing. Let us know what you thought about the show. I always like hearing from

00:02:16.100 the men and how these podcasts are impacting their lives. Guys, I want to jump just right into this

00:02:21.140 show today since it's such a good and an interesting topic. I'll admit when Lewis sent me a copy of his

00:02:27.100 book, I resisted. I resisted the first chapter too. I talk about it a little bit in the podcast and the

00:02:31.620 interview itself. But the more that I read through it, the more that I was fascinated with this idea

00:02:37.080 and notion of the masks that we wear. If you don't already know, my guest today, Lewis Howes,

00:02:42.100 is a New York Times bestselling author. I know a ton of you are already familiar with his work and

00:02:47.120 what he's up to with his own company and podcast, which is listened to millions, millions of times

00:02:52.960 per month. And it's called the School of Greatness. We had Lewis on the show a while back. I don't

00:02:58.240 remember right off hand how long ago it was, but he has released his newest book, The Mask of

00:03:03.200 Masculinity. What I enjoyed about this book is that Lewis really pulled back the curtain in his own life.

00:03:10.040 And you can tell by the way that he's analyzed who he is and what makes him tick, that this is a

00:03:15.380 process that he doesn't just talk about. This is a process that he's actually been through and

00:03:19.980 uncovered for himself. He had a lot of success as a professional athlete, which hints at the mask

00:03:25.220 that he was used to wearing, only to find himself injured and wondering how he could redefine himself

00:03:30.380 and tap into who he really was. So gentlemen, get ready, prepare to challenge some of the thoughts

00:03:36.220 about who you are. And let's unpack this idea of The Mask of Masculinity.

00:03:42.560 Lewis, what's going on, man? Thanks for joining me on the show.

00:03:45.020 My brother. Thanks, Ryan.

00:03:46.380 Round number two. I'm really looking forward to this one, man. I got to tell you, and I told you

00:03:49.960 this a minute ago, this one pushed me outside of my comfort zone. I got to tell you, as I was reading

00:03:53.840 through the book, The Mask of Masculinity, I caught myself saying, no, that's not right. No, this is not

00:03:58.340 true. No, that can't be how it is. And I resisted this book, but I almost wonder if it's like,

00:04:03.400 this is my mask speaking. You know what I mean?

00:04:07.080 Might be. I don't know. What is your mask?

00:04:09.520 The Stoic mask is my mask. 0.75

00:04:12.520 Usually guys with a big beard.

00:04:15.260 That makes sense, right?

00:04:16.280 Some type of Stoic mask. They're hiding behind a literal mask of facial hair.

00:04:21.360 That's right. That's right. Yeah. I know we talk about nine different masks, and of course,

00:04:25.880 we're going to break this down a little bit better. But yeah, I went through all of these masks,

00:04:29.640 and yeah, I've got some in all of them, I'm sure. But out of all nine of them, the Stoic mask is

00:04:35.820 definitely the most prevalent for sure. Do you feel like you are sensitive or show emotions or

00:04:43.640 share your feelings when something comes up? Or do you kind of just act like you've got it all

00:04:47.720 put together? Yeah, I try to hide that stuff.

00:04:50.440 Why?

00:04:51.560 That's a good question. And this is why the book challenged me so much is because

00:04:55.420 I caught myself saying, no, guys, don't do that. And so as I started thinking about why

00:05:00.440 that was the case, I don't know. I feel like we've got this certain role as men that we need

00:05:06.060 to adhere to. And for me, showing emotion in a way detracts from that role. And so that's why

00:05:13.360 this was so challenging for me in a good way, in a good way.

00:05:16.460 Yeah. I mean, listen, I think it's life's a dance and it's an art. It's not this like paint by

00:05:21.680 numbers thing where you're like, OK, in this situation, I have to be strong and never show

00:05:26.320 emotion. And then when I'm alone by myself, when no one can see me, then I can, you know,

00:05:31.140 be upset or scream out loud or cry or whatever I want to feel. I think it's a dance and it

00:05:37.280 evolves over our entire life. When we're kids, are we suppressing our tears and emotions or

00:05:43.600 are we allowing them to flow through us and on to the next moment because we express them?

00:05:49.400 And I think as we become conditioned as young boys that are told not to cry and to suck it up 1.00

00:05:57.160 and to be a man and don't be a pussy, don't be a little girl, all these things. When we hear these 1.00

00:06:01.380 things over and over again, we start to wear this mask of, OK, if I express myself, I'm going to be

00:06:07.880 wronged and shamed and made fun of and looked less than a man. And so therefore, let me never show

00:06:15.540 emotion. Even when I'm super freaking hurt, even when I'm pissed, even when I want to kill someone,

00:06:22.500 even when I feel like they're bullying me, even when I feel like my girlfriend just screwed me over,

00:06:27.040 I'm going to feel like I have it all put together and just put on this armor and weight of suppression.

00:06:35.040 How does that support men? That's what I want to know is how does that? I think there's a time and

00:06:39.000 a place to express ourselves and share our emotions. But I want to know is how does that support a man

00:06:46.000 who isn't capable of expressing themselves over the long haul when it continues to build up

00:06:52.860 this wall of inability to just relate to people? You know, I'm talking about extreme cases when men 0.97

00:07:01.040 don't share themselves or express themselves in any sensitive way. And it's just from rage and anger.

00:07:06.680 That's how they tend in general to express what the stoic mask is like, okay, at some point it's all

00:07:13.020 going to build up inside where you've got to let something out and then you go kill someone or you

00:07:18.520 go get, you go get a bar fight because you just like, can't hold back the emotional breakdown or

00:07:23.000 whatever it may be. It's like, that's the one you like are afraid is going to go get a gun and shoot

00:07:29.100 people in a movie theater because they've been bullied and picked on and they've been suppressing

00:07:33.580 their emotions for so long and they look stoic, like they got it all figured out and there's

00:07:38.980 no emotion, but then something snaps and all the rage comes out. So this is extreme obviously,

00:07:44.280 but I'm just thinking about what are the things that those masks that hold us back from actually

00:07:49.520 feeling clear in our hearts. And that's what I feel like it is. It's all the emotions that we feel

00:07:56.620 from every moment. And men feel just as many emotions as women from my experience. I don't

00:08:03.360 remember crying less than a girl when I was three, four, five, seven years old. I probably cried

00:08:12.100 more. You know what I mean? I was scared. I was always insecure. I was always felt alone. Didn't

00:08:19.540 feel like anyone loved me. I didn't feel like anyone had any friends. I felt like I was the dumbest

00:08:23.780 person in school and I just like was always sad. And I learned to not express that, you know, 0.73

00:08:31.060 late in elementary school because it wasn't cool. And I learned to stuff down those emotions.

00:08:36.660 And I remember I was so driven to prove all the boys and girls and whoever wrong about me from my 0.95

00:08:46.140 childhood, from them making fun of me, then them saying I was stupid, then saying I wasn't good 0.97

00:08:51.560 looking. Whatever it was, I was like, I'm going to prove the world wrong. I'm going to become the 0.98

00:08:56.620 biggest, fastest, strongest human that I can be, the best athlete I can be. So I'm the most desired

00:09:03.380 man in the world because of my sports experience, because of my achievements, because of my,

00:09:08.380 the money that I make. And I use those things to build up my self-worth. And when I would achieve

00:09:15.500 these things, what I would achieve all American status and pro football, it was like, I was

00:09:21.960 miserable and angry within moments after achieving these lifelong goals and dreams. And what I realized

00:09:30.020 about four or five years ago is that these achievements didn't bring me the fulfillment

00:09:35.060 and the intimacy and the love and the connections and the relationships that I wanted. It just made me

00:09:41.100 feel like it still wasn't enough. And I had to go for more. And that's why at 30, I finally realized

00:09:46.800 like, okay, Lewis, something isn't working. Like I'm constantly achieving things at the highest levels,

00:09:52.520 everything I write down on my goals and circle and hang on my wall and, you know, train for decades

00:09:59.060 and make come true. They aren't enough. Something isn't working. And at 30, I finally woke up to the

00:10:06.180 fact that, huh, maybe all these things I've been doing and maybe these lies I've been told my whole

00:10:12.260 life about what it means to be manly or a man or whatever, isn't really true. And let me look into

00:10:18.540 this more. And, and that's really kind of how the journey started for me. Yeah. I love it. So would

00:10:22.620 you say that your, your prevalent mask then, and I'm sure, like I said, you have elements of all of

00:10:26.600 these things is the, uh, the athlete mask. Yeah. The athlete mask for sure. You know,

00:10:31.600 the aggression mask, I would say I had, and, you know, still have for moments and, uh, the alpha

00:10:37.420 mask, the invincible mask at some times. And even though like, it's funny, the know-it-all mask,

00:10:42.920 I used to think I knew it all, all the time, even though I was probably like the dumbest kid in school,

00:10:47.360 I put on this persona of like, no, I know this. I know what I'm talking about. And, um, to kind of 0.83

00:10:53.320 prove my worth. The thing is I've worn all these masks. There's nine different masks that men wear

00:10:58.060 and, or have worn, and I've worn them all at different stages of my life. And I'm going to

00:11:04.180 wear them all probably for the rest of my life at different stages as well. I think it's going to be

00:11:10.660 impossible to remove the mask fully. But what I have done is been so aware of them that I'm able to

00:11:18.740 notice when they show up or when I feel like I'm triggered in a situation that when I put it on,

00:11:24.060 I'm able to breathe, take a deep breath and ground myself. And I think the, you know, a true man is a

00:11:32.260 man who can be so self-aware and be aware of everything around him, everything and everyone

00:11:38.900 around them. He can assess the situation. He can see what's happening. He can see the fears in other

00:11:44.520 people. He can see the insecurities in other people. He can see the, the, the struggle that may

00:11:50.180 happen in the future. He can assess it with so much calm, poise and grace because he sees it in

00:11:57.600 himself. And he is aware of his own masks and the things that hold him back in his own insecurities,

00:12:04.700 in his fears. He doesn't try to hide them. He doesn't try to say they're not there. He embraces him.

00:12:11.160 He's like a Batman that it says, I embrace the bats of my life and I'm going to conquer them

00:12:17.520 by embracing them and putting them in the forefront of my life, not hiding behind it,

00:12:23.360 but actually I'm going to put a bat suit on and say, this is my biggest fear. So let me live in 0.98

00:12:28.260 this fear. And that's what I think is powerful. When a man is able to assess any situation, when he's

00:12:36.020 able to connect with all types of human beings, it doesn't matter what age, what gender, gender

00:12:41.840 non-conforming, he is able to come from a place of love and acceptance and, and just be able to

00:12:47.800 assess things with grace and then move through that experience and that moment with a level of

00:12:54.760 service. And I think that's what it means to be a man. I think you bring up a really good distinction

00:12:59.600 here because you're talking about noticing the masks. You're talking about recognizing when you're

00:13:03.360 wearing that mask. I think in reading the book and just understanding who you are and a little bit

00:13:08.460 about you that, that these masks aren't necessarily bad. Like for example, I think about the stoic mask

00:13:13.880 and I think about a first responder or a firefighter, a soldier who yes, can recognize the fear, but still

00:13:19.740 has to run into the burning building. And so that mask, I think, and I don't want to put words in your

00:13:25.340 mouth, but from my perspective is appropriate at times. How do you find the balance between wearing

00:13:31.400 the appropriate mask and then setting the mask down and, and, and getting a little deeper?

00:13:35.340 Absolutely. I mean, like, listen, these masks drove me to be where I'm at today.

00:13:39.760 They, they helped me get to where I am, but they also held me back from having inner fulfillment and

00:13:45.600 inner peace. It drove me to be a great athlete. So I wore this mask. However, I was just unable to

00:13:52.500 take it off in so many situations. So I wasn't able to connect or listen to other people and hear where

00:13:57.780 they were coming from throughout life because I was so focused on my needs, my vision, my goals,

00:14:04.600 and projecting that I'm going to be the best athlete in the world. A hundred percent of the

00:14:09.800 time. When I was broke, I put on the material mask. I was like, okay, I'm going to focus on the car.

00:14:15.800 I'm going to focus on the big house. I'm going to focus on the fancy watch. I'm going to focus on

00:14:19.080 the private jets. I'm going to focus on like, this is what I want. I want to achieve these things.

00:14:23.220 I want to have millions of dollars and it drove me to make a lot of money. Like I was, you know,

00:14:29.960 in a few years I made my first million dollars after being broke on my sister's couch and it

00:14:34.400 drove me, but it also drove me to getting no sleep. It drove me to getting 60 pound, gaining 60 pounds

00:14:40.960 and people calling me fat Lewis when I was always an athlete and healthy. It drove me to missing out

00:14:48.400 on having true intimate connections because I was so focused on money and making more money at all

00:14:55.420 costs. And it hurt my brand because I did things that weren't in alignment to who I was, but just

00:15:02.420 to make the money. And it made me feel very unfulfilled at the end of the day. The money in my bank account

00:15:07.460 was nice and the mask drove me to actually make more money. But what else was I missing out on

00:15:16.000 in life? And that's what I think it is. It's being aware and saying, okay, I'm going to put on this mask

00:15:21.320 right now and I'm going to get in the gym and train because this is my vision to be a greater athlete

00:15:26.180 or lose the weight. But if I'm living in that mask a hundred percent of my days and I'm unable to relate

00:15:33.200 to other human beings and I'm unable to connect and I make it all about me and it's a selfish needs that I

00:15:39.060 feel like we missed the point and we're never going to be fully fulfilled and have inner peace. And that's really

00:15:43.800 what this is about. It's like, how can we feel like there's not this huge weight on our shoulders

00:15:49.100 as men that we're carrying this burden all the time and we've got to be strong for everyone else

00:15:55.020 around us? Why can't we learn to allow the burden to just fall off our shoulders and gracefully move

00:16:03.360 through our experiences in life with a loving demeanor, with an open heart, with the ability to take

00:16:11.460 slow, deep breaths as opposed to be tight and tense. There's so many men that I see, stoic men,

00:16:16.940 that are just like so tight and tense. It's like when we are in this place of wearing a mask,

00:16:22.820 we're never ever able to get in fully flow state because we're doing something that isn't

00:16:29.720 fully who we are.

00:16:30.820 Almost like forcing the issue, right?

00:16:32.760 We're forcing. We're forcing. And therefore there's always going to be tightness and tension

00:16:36.360 through forcing and putting on a mask because we're projecting something that isn't our authentic

00:16:40.880 selves. Anytime we try to do something that isn't us, we will never be able to get into full flow

00:16:46.320 state. And the only way to achieve at the highest levels and to feel the ultimate rush is to be in

00:16:52.800 flow. You know this. And so it's like, why do anything else except for be in flow the majority

00:16:59.340 amount of time that we can? And that's what it's all about.

00:17:03.300 I think in hearing you and of course going through the book and doing the research,

00:17:06.680 like I think that guys run into trouble and you, you bring up a lot of really good case studies of

00:17:10.960 men that from what I can tell you still admire, but you can recognize their mask that they're

00:17:15.140 wearing is that you get into trouble when you define yourself by the mask that you wear rather

00:17:21.700 than it just being a temporary action or way that you behave in a certain environment or

00:17:27.000 conversation, whatever it may be.

00:17:29.160 Exactly. Yep.

00:17:29.900 Yeah. That's makes sense. One of the things you talk about is that men aren't fundamentally flawed or

00:17:34.180 broken. I really appreciate you saying that because I think there is this misconception and

00:17:38.780 a lot of times I think people will either think that, that they're the, you know, the alpha,

00:17:43.160 for example, the alpha mask, or they're broken and flawed. And yet you talk about being somewhere

00:17:49.320 in the middle of that. We're not flawed or broken. We just have some things that we need to work on.

00:17:53.480 Yeah. And I think we're conditioned to be someone we're not. We're conditioned to show up in a way

00:17:58.480 that society, peers, friends, parents, whatever coaches condition us to be a something they want

00:18:06.240 us to be. And therefore we start to step into a different way of being that isn't truly authentically

00:18:12.400 who we are. And it may please other people. It may meet their needs, but it hurts our needs and it hurts

00:18:18.040 us. And I believe it's hurting the world in a big way when men aren't willing to say, you know what,

00:18:24.420 this is who I am. I know who I am. I know my, the things I need to work on. I know what I'm really

00:18:31.060 great at and it's okay. This is who I am. And I'm going to live in this place and I'm going to

00:18:36.980 constantly learn, develop and grow. How does it hurt the world? You talk about hurting the world.

00:18:42.180 How do you, how do you see that playing out? Oh man. I mean, look at all of the negative news on

00:18:47.620 Facebook constantly that's happening. All of these things that are happening, wars, violence,

00:18:52.960 racial issues, gender issues, they all happen from a place of fear and people being afraid and

00:19:00.980 wanting other people to conform to their ways, to their, their, their viewpoint of the world,

00:19:06.700 as opposed to being an acceptance of who someone is. Now, if someone's physically hurting something

00:19:12.600 or, you know, breaking the laws and things like that, I get it. But when someone's just being

00:19:17.340 themselves and believing in what they want to believe in, and they're not hurting anyone,

00:19:21.700 but someone just says, no, that's not right. That's not, that's, that's not good. I don't

00:19:25.920 want you to do that. I don't want you to have that community because it's bad. It's not what we

00:19:30.160 believe in or something. And then they start wars and they start freaking marching across the country

00:19:34.560 with torches or whatever the people are doing. And they're, you know, there's so many, so much

00:19:39.260 conflict, so much conflict right now, as opposed to acceptance. And I think a real man is able to be

00:19:46.520 graceful and accept others for who they are, as long as they're not hurting someone or attacking

00:19:53.160 physically harming, you know, their tribe, their home, their family. But if people just are being

00:19:59.440 themselves in the world, why attack them? Why, why go after them? It's usually because we're insecure

00:20:05.960 about something where we feel unsafe because someone doesn't believe the same thing we believe.

00:20:11.340 Yeah. I mean, you talk about the common thread in all nine masks that you go through is being

00:20:14.540 weakness and fear. And I think that's what you're alluding to now.

00:20:17.420 Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think a real man is confident in who he is and is confident that

00:20:21.420 not everyone's going to think the same way he does and it's okay.

00:20:25.020 How do you recognize what mask you're wearing? It's hard because we are in this own box. And I talk

00:20:30.420 about the stoic mask, just to go back to the first question you asked me about which one I wore.

00:20:34.240 And I'm thinking about this just through our conversation. My dad was out of the picture by the time I was

00:20:38.580 three years old. I was raised by my mom and my sister was around. And so I was raised by women. So I almost 0.93

00:20:44.340 in a way, look at this and think, okay, am I overcompensating? Because I only see from the

00:20:49.160 outside what a man looks like. And I can only see that stoic side versus it being engaged with a man

00:20:54.440 on a daily basis, right? My father on a daily basis and understanding the pain and struggle

00:20:59.140 he deals with as well.

00:21:00.780 Yeah. I have a lot of the stoic mask in me as well because I just, my brother went to prison when I

00:21:05.940 was eight and I was sexually abused when I was five. And my father, even though he would cry at

00:21:12.920 certain times, like during movies or certain moments in life, I would see him tear up.

00:21:17.420 But then other times he was so angry and aggressive and, you know, he'd be loud and scream and fight

00:21:24.560 with my mom. And so I was just constantly confused. I was just like, uh, I see the soft tender side of

00:21:30.240 my dad and he told me he loved me and tuck me in a bed at night. But then he would just like snap

00:21:35.440 and scream at me and like beat me and, you know, do other stuff that I was just like,

00:21:40.700 what, you know, there's these two sides. It was like almost bipolar in some sense where he was

00:21:44.080 like so loving until he got divorced. He and my mom got divorced. And then he was like the most

00:21:49.940 loving human being in the world. There was never a moment of him being upset, yelling, angry,

00:21:57.040 passive aggressive. He came from such a place of acceptance, love, and service from the age of

00:22:02.640 14 to 22 until he got into a car accident and was in a coma for three months. He's still,

00:22:11.480 he's still alive today, but he is a shell of himself. He doesn't, he can't have an emotional

00:22:16.480 conversation and, and connect. And he's like a 14 year old brain now. So it's kind of, so it's like

00:22:22.820 my dad is still alive, but he's, I don't have a relationship with him where there's, it's like,

00:22:27.320 I'm there to support him type of thing. And so for me, it's just kind of a journey of like,

00:22:32.660 how do you fucking live life? You know, how do you like, how are we supposed to live this life 0.97

00:22:36.920 based on, you know, you grew up without a father in your life and had to kind of be the man of that

00:22:42.860 household, I'm assuming, and, and be tough and, you know, be okay when everyone else is stressed out

00:22:48.300 or things are hitting the wall. You had to be, you know, stoic to make sure that someone had a rock

00:22:54.100 to lean on. And that's probably what conditioned you for a lot of your experiences in your life.

00:22:59.760 And it's, it's just a challenge, man, because there's no easy answer to this. The way to

00:23:04.600 understand the mask is, you know, look at the nine masks and say, okay, which one of me resonates the

00:23:10.140 most? You know, in each chapter, I talk about a different example of a man who kind of personifies

00:23:15.900 or has personified that mask at one point. And I think you kind of know when you look at it and

00:23:21.100 you see these, you kind of know what mask you're going to know. I mean, yeah, you're going to know

00:23:24.620 if you're, if you're a comedian, who's always like coming from a place of humor, every, every

00:23:29.860 situation in your life, you have to say a joke, you have to dismiss it. And you're always the funny

00:23:36.180 guy or the class clown. You're, you probably have the Joker mask on because you, um, you know, 0.79

00:23:42.100 you want to, you're, which means you're probably suffering and have a deep pain inside. And that's why

00:23:48.180 you're using humor to deflect a lot of these things because you don't want to address the

00:23:52.440 pain or the, the feelings that you have. These are all things to not feel. They're all things

00:23:59.680 to use to not address our fears, our insecurities, the things that we feel we're ashamed of or

00:24:06.800 guilty of the unforgivable things that we've done or haven't done. That's what it is. We lean,

00:24:13.340 you know, the sexual mask is the man who's defined by constantly conquering any woman that he can.

00:24:19.540 You know, maybe he, you know, I'm just making an example here, but maybe he never had a girl like

00:24:24.800 him before. And so it became his goal to just constantly conquer women subconsciously. You 0.71

00:24:29.700 know, it's just like, I'm going to conquer women. I'm going to keep, it's never going to be enough. 1.00

00:24:32.880 And why settle for one when I can have them all? And why get intimate when someone's going to break

00:24:38.300 my heart? Like they did when I was 16. So I'm never going to fully commit. And I'm just going

00:24:43.680 to keep having fun. I'm going to seduce every woman. So they all desire me and then I'm going 0.98

00:24:47.680 to leave them. So they can't leave me and hurt me. You know, it's just these things, these patterns

00:24:52.260 that we go through. There's the invincible mask, which is a man who does not feel fear. A man that

00:24:58.320 takes all the risks in the world, whether that's, you know, uh, betting as a life savings on a company

00:25:03.940 or cliff diving or skydiving constantly, uh, smoking and drinking excessive amounts, whatever

00:25:10.140 it may be, he feels invincible. Like nothing can take him down. And he's just, he's just

00:25:16.060 constantly doing, he's in the doing constantly as opposed to feeling, being, interacting, having

00:25:22.600 conversations with people, learning. And it's all about just, I'm going to take on the world

00:25:27.420 and nothing can take me down until his parachute doesn't open and he dies.

00:25:31.660 Right.

00:25:33.940 Gentlemen, I could talk with you until I'm blue in the face about the iron council, which

00:25:37.920 I have in the past and how powerful it is. But rather than do that today, I'm going to

00:25:42.280 have one of our members, Joshua Laycock, share his experience of the brotherhood with you.

00:25:46.900 When I joined the iron council, I gained access to all the things I'd expected would be there.

00:25:50.780 You know, the brotherhood, the discussions, the video calls, it was great. The thing that

00:25:54.500 was wild was what happened when I stepped away from the computer. It was the way I started

00:25:59.120 to speak with myself. I don't know. I started to see myself for who I really was and who

00:26:03.000 I wanted to be as a man. That was the unexpected part of being in the iron council. And it really

00:26:08.640 is very hard to put a price tag on that. I don't know. It was, it was the self-reflection

00:26:12.020 that it stirred up in me. I started to see myself in a different light. I didn't always

00:26:16.860 like what I saw. It can be hugely uncomfortable when you start to peel away those layers.

00:26:21.360 But out of that, I don't know. I also started to see and then realize the potential I knew

00:26:25.440 I had for the first time in a very long time to reach my life's goals. I think the experience

00:26:30.740 is different for everyone and that's what makes it such a powerful thing. For me, the

00:26:34.460 iron council was not only about working towards becoming a better man, but also discovering

00:26:39.180 the kind of man I already was. And I just didn't realize was there all along.

00:26:43.320 So there it is guys, straight from the mouth of one of our members. If you are interested

00:26:47.400 in learning more about the iron council and what we're all about, head to orderofman.com

00:26:52.400 slash iron council. Now let's get back to my conversation with Lewis.

00:26:58.280 Why is this so difficult for guys? I mean, it's difficult for me. I'll, I'll be straight

00:27:02.560 up with that, but it seems like for men in particular, it's very difficult for us to share,

00:27:07.800 to feel, to open up, to expose our weaknesses or the word that we hear a lot is vulnerability.

00:27:13.380 Why do you think this is so difficult for guys?

00:27:15.680 You know, here's the thing. I don't want to say that men have it harder than women.

00:27:19.980 We, both men and women have our own difficulties. And this is just kind of like the, the pressure

00:27:26.780 that men face with the gender, the, the roles, the, the, the expectations of men and the expectations

00:27:36.600 from peers, what they say to them, the coaches mentality from locker rooms, parents expecting

00:27:41.720 young boys to turn into something, uh, girlfriends saying they want someone sensitive and open

00:27:47.580 and vulnerable. But then when they are, they're like, why don't you just man up? Yeah. And no,

00:27:52.540 you need to be strong for me. You need to, I need to feel comfortable that I can be invulnerable in

00:27:56.420 your arms. And so I need you to man up right now. And so when a man hears this over and over and over

00:28:02.200 again, and when someone's not happy with who they are by being sensitive, someone, you know,

00:28:07.760 pushes them aside and is uncomfortable having those conversations with a man when they're

00:28:11.980 showing emotion or having a vulnerable, tender moment and the man doesn't feel accepted,

00:28:17.660 of course, we're going to put on this mask. Like we've got things figured out because

00:28:22.300 we want to feel loved and accepted just like women or, uh, humans, uh, non-gender conforming 0.59

00:28:29.140 human beings. We all want to feel accepted for who we are. And when we're not accepted for who we

00:28:35.220 are, we project through a mask to be something we're not so that we're accepted by other people

00:28:41.000 with that mask. And then we just started living with that math. That becomes our identity.

00:28:45.700 The men in general wear an identity that is not authentically who they are. And I think that's

00:28:52.200 where the challenge of inner suffering and unfulfillment and this feeling of like never

00:28:57.980 feeling good enough comes into play. If our inner world is suffering, it doesn't matter how much we

00:29:03.400 achieve on the outer world. I look at, uh, Robin Williams, probably the, one of the top comedian

00:29:09.220 actors of all time who everyone made everybody laugh, who brought a smile, a tear, happiness to

00:29:17.500 every human being who watched a film to show, uh, interacting with him in person. And yet he was

00:29:24.600 unable to find inner peace and inner fulfillment. Right. Why, why was he unable? And he took his life.

00:29:31.920 Why was someone who makes the whole world happy, unable to find inner happiness himself? I don't know,

00:29:38.260 but maybe I can guess that he probably didn't address a lot of the things he was feeling inside

00:29:43.660 because he used his Joker mask to project certain things. And he was accepted by wearing that Joker

00:29:50.760 mask. People loved him for wearing it. So why would he ever want to not experience that love when everyone

00:29:56.480 loved him for that projection that he was putting out there? Why change it? It's working. It's working

00:30:02.620 for him. He's a celebrity. He's making tons of money. Any door he wants to open, he can have it.

00:30:07.280 Everyone wants a piece of him for wearing the mask, but it wasn't his a hundred percent authentic

00:30:12.680 self. I'm assuming I'm guessing. And therefore he was unable to just share his feelings because

00:30:19.820 maybe, maybe we're like, Oh, I don't know this side of you. And I'm just guessing here. And I,

00:30:24.000 and I may be completely wrong, but I'm guessing that maybe he wanted to share his feelings at some

00:30:28.480 point. And people were like, I just want the funny Robin back. Like, where's the funny guy?

00:30:32.360 It's almost as if taking off the mask becomes more of a risk than just continuing to wear the mask

00:30:38.640 that's proven to, in his case, work. And a lot of our cases to work to some degree.

00:30:42.980 It's the biggest risk in the world to take off the mask and to look at ourselves and say,

00:30:46.900 who am I? Who am I really? I've been defined as a man by wearing this mask for however many years.

00:30:54.020 And it's worked. It's worked. I got the supermodel girlfriend because I was driven by money and

00:31:01.620 materialism. I, or I was a great athlete or whatever. I got the girl. It worked. I built a

00:31:09.300 billion dollar business. It worked. I, uh, you know, won a Superbowl. It worked. But why do some

00:31:17.260 of the greatest athletes, greatest musicians commit suicide when they retire? You know?

00:31:22.640 Right. And we say things like, well, they threw it all away. We were on top of the world and yet

00:31:26.940 they probably weren't inside. It's a sad example of the lead singer on Lincoln Park, which recently

00:31:32.740 happened. It's like, what's his name? Chester. Um, I'm not sure his last name, but I think it's

00:31:37.020 Chester's first name, but it's just like the saddest thing in the world to me that, and I don't know

00:31:42.060 all the details. I don't know really what happened, but from things I've heard, it's just like,

00:31:46.480 this guy was on top of the world. This guy sold out stadiums and people love their music and they've

00:31:53.000 been performing for, I don't know, over a decade. Oh yeah. At least at the top of the world, all the

00:31:57.240 money in the world had four, I think four kids, amazing wife, like had great friends. Like if you

00:32:04.180 look at his life, he had it all, but what was missing inside that drove him to feel unfulfilled,

00:32:12.000 that drove him to feel like it's still not enough. It's still not enough or I'm not good enough or I

00:32:18.220 need to do this. Like, I don't know what he was feeling and I don't want to try to assume like I

00:32:23.020 have any clue, but it's just, you know, the pressures that men feel. And then we get caught

00:32:30.280 up wearing the mask and then when we are accepted for it and people love us for that mask, it's hard

00:32:35.820 to say, huh, but that's not really who I am inside to yourself. And if they only knew the amount

00:32:41.980 of insecurities that I did have, and if they only knew the shame that I do feel, and if they only

00:32:47.140 knew what I've really been through, would they love me still? Would they accept me still? Would

00:32:52.720 they be my friend? Would I lose all the money? This is the thing that I faced four years ago when I

00:32:58.840 finally, for 25 years, I didn't tell anyone that I was sexually abused because I was so shameful,

00:33:05.640 guilty, insecure, embarrassed, all these things I was feeling. And I was like, if anyone

00:33:11.960 ever knew this about me, that this happened when I was five, that I was taken to a bathroom and raped

00:33:17.700 by a man that I didn't know. If anyone ever knew that, my life would be over. My business would

00:33:25.000 crumble. My girlfriend would break up with me. My parents would disown me. My friends would think I

00:33:32.580 was a weak man because I was abused. Like, this is the conversation I had for 25 years.

00:33:39.280 And these are cognitive distortions. Have you heard of that term or looked at that at all?

00:33:43.180 Yeah. It's unreal. The conclusions that we jump to that are just absolutely not founded in any

00:33:48.840 reality. That's it. And here's the thing. At 30 years old, I was going through a dark, dark time.

00:33:56.700 Like, listen, now I'm a white male in America and I had money and all these other things,

00:34:01.860 but my inner world was going through a dark time. It was like, why do I feel so like I was suffering

00:34:08.720 inside? There was zero peace in my heart, in my mind. I was going through a bad breakup that was

00:34:15.220 just super emotional, up and down, back and forth. And I was taking all this anger that was built up,

00:34:21.140 that I was like, I felt like I had to be patient and loving and kind all the time. And I just like,

00:34:25.440 had this anger because I couldn't express myself to my girlfriend or anyone. I feel like I couldn't

00:34:29.700 express my feelings. And so I would go play pickup basketball and just, it was kind of like an outlet

00:34:35.080 for all this built up emotion to take it out on people in the basketball court. And every time I'd

00:34:40.140 go out there, I would scream at people. I would shove people. I would step to people. It's like,

00:34:44.720 I wanted to fight. I wanted them to like touch me so that I could just find a way to unleash as much

00:34:51.100 anger as possible and show how powerful of a man I was against these other lesser men.

00:34:58.360 And one day we were in a heated basketball game and I ended up fouling this guy back and forth.

00:35:06.480 We were trash talking. He was bigger than me, older than me. And we get to a point during this game 0.50

00:35:12.860 where kind of enough was enough for him, I guess. And we were just kind of hard fouling each other and

00:35:17.500 this and that. He ended up heads butting me. And it was like the, all the triggers came out and it

00:35:23.280 was like the ultimate alpha aggression male. I've seen that red too, man. I know what that looks like.

00:35:29.500 It was like, I was another human being. And I stepped into this raging person and just pummeled

00:35:36.740 this guy to the point where finally it was broken up by a couple of people got us off each other.

00:35:42.100 And I looked at the guy's face and I was like shaking, trembling, shaking of the fear of what

00:35:47.580 I just did to this person's face. And I remember running back to my place like a scared little boy

00:35:53.420 and like shaking, looking in the mirror. And I was like, who the fuck are you? Like, who are you? 1.00

00:36:00.440 Why did you do this? What is wrong with you? And that's when things started to open up for me to be

00:36:05.840 like, okay, I need to look within. This is not okay. I could lose everything by getting into some stupid

00:36:11.500 pickup fight. I could one, someone could stab me, shoot me, break a bone. You know, they could 1.00

00:36:17.960 arrest me. I could be, you know, my whole reputation could be gone because I wasn't able to

00:36:24.020 express myself in a more loving way. And I allowed myself to wear this mask and build it up for 25 years

00:36:32.660 and start unleashing it on people because I was angry at what had happened to me.

00:36:36.460 What were some of the first steps that you took? I mean, you came to that conclusion,

00:36:39.280 you're sitting there looking in the mirror and you're like, this has got to change. What does that

00:36:42.380 actually look like tactically?

00:36:45.740 Luckily, I went to a workshop, an emotional intelligence leadership workshop, probably kind of,

00:36:50.480 you know, similar environment to the stuff you guys do at a order of man where you guys do your

00:36:56.300 intimate kind of three day workshops. This was a workshop that was a five day experience.

00:37:01.960 It was one of the greatest things I've ever done for myself. It was, and I almost left after the

00:37:07.000 second day because I was just like, it was confronting my ego. Everything was confronting

00:37:12.060 my ego. And I was kind of like, I already know all this stuff. This is all, you know,

00:37:16.820 I teach this person. The same thing I went through as I, as I started to read your book,

00:37:20.680 it sounds like. Exactly. Yeah, I get it. And I was like, I know this stuff. I teach this shit,

00:37:24.720 right? And, um, there were, it was a bunch of exercises, games, real life scenarios. And you're with 1.00

00:37:31.600 a group of, I don't know, 50 or 70 people and you're partnering up with strangers. You're doing

00:37:37.380 small group exercises and it's all designed to confront things that don't work for you that hold

00:37:44.900 you back in your life and that have been holding you back your whole life. So a lot of it is

00:37:49.780 addressing like your childhood, your parents, like addressing things that you've never said to your

00:37:54.560 parents that you want to say. It's just like communicating these feelings or these experiences

00:37:58.580 that we've never been able to let go and that have been holding us back or that have been weighing

00:38:02.760 us down and that have been building these masks up on us. And there was a few instances of this

00:38:09.500 experience that just finally got me to open up a little bit. Like I was so guarded and so like,

00:38:14.660 nah, these people don't know me and I've got it all figured out. And who are the other people in

00:38:19.580 this group? It's kind of weird. We played a game. The premise of the game at the end of it,

00:38:25.080 the lesson, the moral of the story was there was two teams and both teams ended up losing the game

00:38:30.720 and the object of the game was to win. And so for me, when I heard this rule that the object was to

00:38:36.100 win, I went into my mode of, I need to win at all costs, whatever it takes. That's the rule of the

00:38:41.840 game. That's the objective. That's what we want to do. That's it. It's to win. At the end of the game,

00:38:46.220 it was like total chaos. Both teams lost. And the lesson was you guys, this is how you live in your

00:38:53.560 life. You guys are constantly coming from a place of, I need to win and the other team needs to

00:38:57.500 lose. Or I need to win in my relationship and that means my girlfriend needs to lose. Or I need to 1.00

00:39:01.880 win in my, you know, the company needs to win. And they were like, you can both win. You know,

00:39:07.960 there was a way for both teams to win this game. And yet we were so in our heads of like, oh no,

00:39:13.040 only one winner. Then it woke me up like I'd heard the concept of win-win before, but for whatever

00:39:18.560 reason, it didn't make sense to me until this moment when I experienced it. And I was in my bed

00:39:24.180 at night after this day of the workshop. And I remember being like, wow, where in my life have I

00:39:30.900 always come from this place of I need to be right. I need to win. And that means someone else needs to

00:39:35.700 be wrong and they need to lose. And how has that shown up pretty much in every situation in my life?

00:39:41.780 The loneliness that I felt by like me being right and me winning, that mean everyone else had to be

00:39:48.820 second place. I was like, no longer am I going to come from this place. I'm going to come from a

00:39:54.460 place of win-win in every situation and business, making sure that any deal that I get what I need

00:40:01.300 and they get what they need, but I'm not trying to screw anyone over in my relationship, working on

00:40:06.280 place of, okay, hearing the other person, them hearing me and saying, where can we both feel good in

00:40:11.220 this conversation, in business and relationships, in sports where I'm the most competitive, I can

00:40:18.080 still win. And the other person can, even if I went on the scoreboard and they lose, can I do it

00:40:24.360 with grace? Can I do it so that I'm a good sport and a good, as opposed to rubbing it in their face

00:40:29.980 and being aggressive the whole time and making them feel like a piece of crap. And can I lose from a 0.97

00:40:34.160 place of, oh, what's the lesson? What did I learn where I still won something?

00:40:38.120 Even sports. I mean, you take a look at sports and this is a thought that has crossed my mind

00:40:42.020 recently is that it is a competition. Yes, but it's also cooperation because if you look at on

00:40:47.200 the football field, we all, both teams adhere to a set of rules. That's cooperation in order for

00:40:52.780 everybody to get better. That's it, man. That's it. There was a moment also in this workshop, which

00:40:58.380 was getting to my, my moment of the tactical stuff. There was a moment where we'd gone through a few

00:41:04.160 days of exercises and kind of going through stuff in the past that doesn't work for us.

00:41:09.580 And the facilitator of the workshop was like, okay, we're moving forward. We've addressed

00:41:13.840 everything in your past that has hurt you or upset you or made you this way or made you guarded or

00:41:19.620 whatever it may be. And we're going to move forward. We're going to move forward in creating a new vision

00:41:24.620 for your life in the future of who you want to be and what do you want to create in the world? 0.80

00:41:28.620 And he said, if there's anything you have not addressed yet, and we went over a lot of crap.

00:41:34.460 So like people were, you know, in tears, people are like going through all this stuff, like

00:41:38.000 constantly. It was like, it was emotional. It was a, you know, there's different exercises where

00:41:42.680 you're just like screaming. It was like kind of out there, but it was like super effective.

00:41:46.920 And he goes, if there's anything at all in the past that you have not addressed,

00:41:52.020 now is the time to address it or you'll never get to talk about it again.

00:41:55.160 In front of everybody you have to bring in front of everyone. He was like, now's the time. He's

00:41:58.820 like, now's the time to let it like to share. Otherwise we're moving forward. So you better

00:42:02.880 clear everything in the past. Otherwise it's going to hold you back still. And I was like, okay,

00:42:06.980 thinking about it, I was like, oh, you know, my brother went to prison for four years. Yeah,

00:42:11.260 that sucked. My parents got divorced, you know, bullied, being in the special needs classes, 0.82

00:42:15.360 like all these things I addressed. And I was like, oh, that time I was raped in the bathroom by a man. 0.81

00:42:20.040 And I was kind of like, oh, why have I never talked about this? Yeah. Why have I always like

00:42:25.320 just put it to the side? And I was like, if I don't share this now, I'll probably never share it.

00:42:30.520 So I, I like just, my body stood up. I stood up in front of the room. I couldn't look anyone in

00:42:35.700 the eyes. I looked down the entire time because I was so ashamed and terrified at what I was going to

00:42:39.700 say. And I walked through for the first time, moment by moment, every detail of what happened to me

00:42:46.420 when I was five. And then I sat down afterwards and just kind of like my body, I had zero control.

00:42:53.240 I was just bawling. My body was like shaking. And luckily there were these two women on either side 1.00

00:42:59.400 of me that were like hugging me and holding me and they were crying. And it was just like,

00:43:04.060 I felt so ashamed and I felt so scared of what people were going to think about me that I ran out

00:43:10.600 of the room and outside. Like it was in like a hotel ballroom and I ran outside of the hotel

00:43:17.300 into kind of like this back alley. And there was like a fence and I, I just put my head against

00:43:22.320 the fence and my arms, like in my, in my head. And I was just like looking down, like just crying.

00:43:26.840 Cause I was just like so terrified of, you know, sharing this and having people see this is who I am.

00:43:34.200 And one of the most beautiful things happened to me that still gives me chills when I think about

00:43:38.960 it. One by one, men came up to me from that room that came outside and they hugged me. They looked

00:43:46.440 me in the eyes and they were like, you are my hero. I was sexually abused and I've never been able to

00:43:52.220 talk about it. And I've judged you this whole workshop as this like jock egotistical man. 0.98

00:43:59.060 That's the mass they were seeing.

00:44:00.220 Yeah. They were like, I've just been judging you. And for you to do that is like one of the most

00:44:05.860 amazing things. And it makes me think completely different about you. I respect you. I trust you

00:44:11.780 now. I like, you're my hero. And one by one they said things, you know, similar to that. And it was

00:44:18.720 just like, wow, you mean by actually sharing who I am or experiences I've been through and revealing

00:44:25.400 these things about me and taking off the mask and saying, this is who I am.

00:44:30.220 Take it or leave it. It actually built deeper trust, deeper connection, deeper intimacy,

00:44:36.840 um, and deeper levels of leadership. Like people were like, I will follow you anywhere. And I was

00:44:44.180 like, really? Like, like, yeah, the exact opposite of what you thought happened. I was like knowing my

00:44:49.280 deepest, darkest secrets and knowing my, my biggest fears and my biggest insecurities. Now you want to

00:44:54.580 follow me. I was like, not that I was looking for people to follow me, but they were like, I just trust

00:44:58.980 you. And whatever you do, I'm behind. And I was like, wow. And as I started to go down and this

00:45:03.800 was four years ago. And as I started to, I started to share one by one with my family members, which

00:45:08.640 was terrifying. Then one by one with friends. Then I started sharing more and more openly. And I,

00:45:14.520 and I eventually shared on my podcast publicly about seven, eight months later. And just like the

00:45:20.680 amount of impact it has made by doing one simple thing, being authentically myself, it has changed

00:45:28.720 the course of my relationships. It has changed the course of my business. It changed the results of my

00:45:34.820 accomplishments that I achieve. I feel so much more fulfilled when I achieve these things that I've

00:45:40.640 always wanted. And it's just been the biggest game changer by taking off the masks or being aware

00:45:46.640 of them when I, cause I still wear them. It's not like I'm this perfect human being, but being aware

00:45:51.380 of it and saying, you know what? You're right. I'm, I'm, I'm being like an arrogant asshole right

00:45:56.460 now, or I'm, I'm like focused on this and you know, let me take a moment. Let me own this. You know, 0.99

00:46:01.800 let me take responsibility and apologize. And here's what I'm committed to moving forward. And it's just

00:46:06.760 been like this. Again, it's a dance. It's an art. There's a lot of pressures for men. I get it.

00:46:12.660 But when we start to just take off the mask a little bit, I'm telling you, your relationships

00:46:17.180 are going to transform. And the key to success in life is relationships. And the key to successful

00:46:22.780 relationships is being authentically you. I love it, man. I love it. And obviously we didn't,

00:46:27.940 we're only able to break down the specific tactics for each one of these masks, which you do put in

00:46:33.160 the book. And I appreciate that. But I think at the end of the day, a lot of what you talked about,

00:46:36.780 as far as what you can do comes down to being real with yourself and then figuring out a way to be

00:46:41.420 real with others. So I definitely appreciate that. Well, Lewis, we're bumping up against time,

00:46:45.400 man. I want to ask you just a couple of questions as we wrap things up here today. The first one,

00:46:49.560 and we've been talking about this for the last 45 minutes or so, is what does it mean to be a man?

00:46:55.480 To be in service, to be authentically and fully yourself, to strip off the masks and to live a life

00:47:03.480 of service. Powerful, man. Powerful. How do we connect with you? How do we buy the book? How do we

00:47:08.420 connect with you? How do we learn about everything that you've got going on? And it is a lot. I

00:47:12.280 follow you. It is a lot that you have going on. How do we figure this stuff out, man?

00:47:15.600 Yeah. I mean, you can get the book anywhere, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or go to maskofmasculinity.com

00:47:21.580 and they'll send you to all the places that get the book. And I share more on my podcast as well

00:47:26.540 at School of Greatness.

00:47:27.740 Right on. We'll link that all up. And we got some exciting things you and I planned for some Facebook

00:47:31.920 lives and some other stuff. So stay tuned into that and then we'll make sure that happens.

00:47:37.100 Lewis, I got to tell you, man, I've been following you for years. I've followed you when you shared

00:47:41.620 your story and when you inspired me to share a lot of my personal demons and stories as

00:47:47.580 well. So you have been personally impactful in my life. I want to tell you, I appreciate

00:47:50.960 you and appreciate your time.

00:47:52.840 Thanks, my man. And you've got an opportunity to really impact a lot of men with your group.

00:47:57.320 And just to talk about the stoic mask, you have really, you're from a place of leadership

00:48:03.680 because you're running these groups and these groups of men and this Facebook group

00:48:08.200 and the site that the more you continue to take off that mask, you're going to give other

00:48:13.600 men permission to be the man they've always wanted to be. So I encourage you to, when you

00:48:18.560 recognize that, is to dive in a little deeper and say, you know, let me do the most uncomfortable

00:48:23.000 thing right now. And obviously know when to dance and when the right timing is and things

00:48:27.640 like that. But I think the more you do that, the more you're going to make a bigger impact

00:48:31.480 on your community and you're going to see your community grow in a tremendous way.

00:48:35.800 Right on, man. I appreciate that. And I appreciate you. Thanks for coming on.

00:48:38.800 Thanks, brother.

00:48:40.440 There it is, guys. I told you it would be a good one. I think you'd agree that it was.

00:48:44.520 I hope you're challenging some of the things that you think about the way that this world

00:48:47.720 works and the way that you operate in it. That's the point of the show to get us all thinking

00:48:52.880 differently about our lives. If you're listening to this the day this podcast is being released,

00:48:58.000 Lewis's book is available right now. Today, you can head to order of man.com slash one

00:49:03.040 three six to get a link to the book along with everything else that you might want from this

00:49:08.100 episode. And again, if you would make sure to shoot me and Lewis a message on Facebook

00:49:12.220 or Twitter, Instagram, wherever you do the social media thing, and let us know what you

00:49:16.720 thought about this show in his book. And as I sign out today, remember what our member of

00:49:21.400 the iron council Joshua had to say about his experience in the brotherhood. If you are interested

00:49:25.720 in learning more, claiming your seat at the table, head to order of man.com slash iron council

00:49:30.620 order of man.com slash iron council. I will look forward to talking to you on Friday for our Friday

00:49:36.420 field notes, but until then take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening

00:49:43.100 to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you

00:49:48.120 were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

00:49:55.720 Thank you.

Order of Man - October 24, 2017

136： Lewis Howes ｜ The Mask of Masculinity

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