137： The Fight Against Child Sex Trafficking ｜ Tim Ballard
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
217.7883
Summary
Tim Ballard is the founder of Operation Underground Railroad, a nonprofit organization designed to save children around the world from child sex trafficking. In the wake of some horrific atrocities, more men need to know about what it means to be a man. Today, we talk about stories of his team s rescues, how these young children are being helped to recover, how to find a calling in life, and how to avoid the flinch when going undercover.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
Today, guys, I've got a different kind of podcast lined up for you.
00:00:03.120
My guest is Tim Ballard, and he is the founder of Operation Underground Railroad, which is
00:00:07.560
a nonprofit organization designed to save children around the world from child sex trafficking.
00:00:13.420
Initially, my wife introduced me to Tim's work, and after following him for some time,
00:00:17.640
I'm inspired by the good he's doing in the world in the wake of some horrific atrocities
00:00:23.900
Today, we talk about stories of his team's rescues, how these young children are being
00:00:28.120
helped to recover, how to find a calling in life, how to avoid the flinch when going
00:00:33.720
undercover, and the fight against child sex trafficking.
00:00:40.000
Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.
00:00:42.940
When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.
00:00:47.360
You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.
00:00:56.280
And at the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
00:01:03.120
My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and the founder of this podcast, The Order
00:01:08.380
Whether you're new to the show or you've been here for years, which is actually really
00:01:13.100
strange to say that we've been going that long, but we have, I want to welcome you to
00:01:17.080
what I and hundreds of thousands of men around the world would consider to be the manliest
00:01:22.560
Today, we're talking about everything that makes a man a man, specifically with his ability
00:01:27.400
to protect himself and those that he cares about, provide financially, mentally, emotionally,
00:01:33.180
and spiritually, and preside or lead himself, those he loves and those he has an obligation
00:01:39.740
Now, just a couple of quick announcements today.
00:01:42.500
If you haven't already done so, make sure you join our closed Facebook group.
00:01:46.480
We've got hundreds of guys joining each and every week.
00:01:48.740
Uh, we've got roughly 38,000 men all working and discussing and learning and applying what
00:01:55.540
You can do that at facebook.com slash groups slash order of man.
00:02:00.000
And second, if you do enjoy my conversation today, I'm sure that you will with Tim Ballard,
00:02:04.460
please make sure to let us know on Facebook or Instagram or Twitter.
00:02:09.220
Both of us want to hear from you and always enjoy knowing what you think about the work.
00:02:14.000
And also guys, make sure if you would share this episode with your friends, your relatives,
00:02:18.460
your colleagues, your coworkers, whoever, this is how we get the word out about the work
00:02:23.240
Now, before I get into the meat of the discussion today with Tim, I do want to thank our show
00:02:35.420
I can think of a million other things that I'd rather be doing than driving to the mall and
00:02:39.480
digging through store after store and dealing with the people trying to sell me in an
00:02:44.620
But I do think that looking good is important, but if I can find a way to simplify the process,
00:02:50.340
you can bet that I'm going to take advantage of that.
00:02:57.560
You jump online, you fill out a few questions, you give them your sizes and what you like
00:03:03.580
And then a personal stylist handpicks some threads for you and then delivers them straight
00:03:08.860
Once you have them, you try them on, you keep what you like, you send anything that you
00:03:12.000
don't like back, very simple and shipping is free.
00:03:17.380
I've enhanced the way that I look through stitch fix men, which enhances my influence.
00:03:23.600
And I've also made the process easier than it's ever been before.
00:03:27.560
So you can get started now at stitchfix.com slash order of man.
00:03:32.200
And you'll also get 25% off when you keep all five items in your box.
00:03:35.740
Again, stitchfix.com slash order of man to get started today.
00:03:42.860
All right, guys, with that said, let me introduce you to a man who I admire because not only did
00:03:47.960
he see a problem, he actually did something about it.
00:03:53.060
He's the founder of Operation Underground Railroad.
00:03:55.300
It's a nonprofit designed to rescue the victims of child sex trafficking.
00:04:00.580
To date, Tim and his team have rescued 745 victims.
00:04:05.400
They've assisted in the rest of 365 traffickers around the world.
00:04:09.720
Originally, Tim was working for 12 years as a special agent with the Department of Homeland
00:04:14.400
Security, but because he was frustrated with the red tape and the inability, he had to actually
00:04:20.960
remove these children from the horrible situations that he was responsible for investigating.
00:04:27.400
In 2013, he left that department and founded Operation Underground Railroad.
00:04:32.080
Today, we're going to talk about that process, the good he's now doing in the world, how to
00:04:36.960
take action on the problems that you see in the world, and how to get involved in this fight.
00:04:47.020
Yeah, I've been following you and, of course, what you've been up to for some time now.
00:04:50.940
And I've had hundreds of conversations with some very successful men, but every once in
00:04:54.800
a while, I'm privileged and have the honor of speaking with somebody who I think is a
00:04:58.840
true man because he's actually doing something towards being a better man and something that
00:05:03.000
I consider important in the role that we play as men.
00:05:05.520
So I appreciate and I'm honored to have you on the show today.
00:05:09.500
So we like to jump right into things because we don't have a lot of time.
00:05:12.800
But the question I want to lead off with is, and maybe even just helping us understand
00:05:18.080
the seriousness of child sex trafficking, because I think there's a misconception about
00:05:24.380
And in doing research, as I was preparing for this interview, it's pretty staggering.
00:05:27.940
So if you could just enlighten us a little bit to what is actually going on in the seriousness
00:05:33.160
It's the greatest plague maybe ever to hit the earth, in my opinion.
00:05:36.520
And the sad part about it is it really is hidden.
00:05:40.820
I mean, there are more people alive today in slavery than ever before in the history
00:05:46.560
In fact, you could add up all the slaves that ever existed during the 300, 400 year of the
00:05:51.700
transatlantic slave trade, not to take away at all from the horrific thing that that was.
00:05:55.900
But you could add all those people who were in slavery over 400 years, and there's still
00:06:03.280
One staggering statistic that kind of puts it into perspective, with the money that's made
00:06:07.940
in human trafficking every year, you could buy every single Starbucks franchise, every
00:06:13.700
single NBA team, and still have enough money to send every American child to college.
00:06:21.880
And millions of these people in slavery are children, about five to six million are children.
00:06:26.680
And our organization focuses mostly on how to find them, how to go for them first.
00:06:32.800
I mean, this is just, I caught myself the other day, knowing that we were going to have
00:06:36.620
this conversation, wondering and asking myself, how is this even possible in 2017?
00:06:46.820
But how is it that this sort of thing is even possible?
00:06:54.600
And it's hard for me to comprehend a person's desire to abuse a child this way, whether it's
00:06:59.720
through slave labor, or whether it's sex abuse.
00:07:03.100
I've interrogated dozens of these guys who create the demand, these people who are buying
00:07:08.100
And what I've come to realize is there's a sex addiction going on like never before,
00:07:15.260
It starts with people who are so hooked into pornography, a fraction of those people, it
00:07:21.960
And I'm not an expert in psychology, but based on the guys I've talked to, and they tell me,
00:07:27.380
And they say, look, I became a sex addict, and the adult porn just wasn't doing it for
00:07:33.220
And the brain functions in a way that pornography serves as a download of chemicals like dopamine.
00:07:40.680
And so like marijuana, you eventually progress to something more effective because your brain's
00:07:50.080
They need to shock their system to get that rush, to get that brain drop, that chemical drop.
00:07:54.180
And so they start looking up 20-year-old girls, and then 15-year-old girls, then 10-year-old
00:07:59.960
And then before you know it, they're traveling to Thailand or to Mexico to have sex with a
00:08:06.920
I mean, the demand is through the roof, which gives us these ridiculously high numbers.
00:08:13.500
I think I can see with pornography because I think it's very easy to hide your actions and
00:08:18.040
the behavior and websites that you're visiting.
00:08:24.080
Is it just the countries that are not as engaged as I can see that maybe we are?
00:08:28.920
And I'm sure that the United States has a long way to go.
00:08:33.180
The U.S. does have a long way to go, but the U.S. is leading the charge.
00:08:36.880
I'm proud to have worked with Homeland Security investigations for 12 years, and I almost worked
00:08:44.140
But the real supply is coming from these countries that don't have sufficient response.
00:08:50.540
They don't have well-equipped or resourced law enforcement officers.
00:08:54.220
We're in about 15 countries now, and almost every country we've been in, when we did that
00:08:59.380
operation with them, we always worked with the police.
00:09:01.720
That was their first child trafficking operation.
00:09:06.920
They just don't have the resources, and they don't know what to do or how to begin.
00:09:10.940
And we come in and basically say, look, there's 15 different pieces in rescuing a child, and
00:09:19.140
And we start giving them, whether it's the technology, the training, the computers to
00:09:22.820
find the kids who are being sold on social media sites, or whether it's undercover operators
00:09:27.580
to play the part of the American sex tourist who needs to sit on this beach until someone
00:09:32.180
offers a child, and we catch the whole transaction on hidden cameras.
00:09:35.880
So we offer them this, and the idea is to empower these governments.
00:09:38.960
Once they figure out how to do it, we can kind of start pulling out, and they are now empowered
00:09:45.940
I think that's really valuable, because I think, and I'm not going to use the right
00:09:49.220
term, because I was about to say easy, and based on the research, I don't think this is
00:09:52.360
But I do think it's easy to just say, hey, we'll do it all forever, and never really
00:09:57.260
empower any government or agencies to actually take care of this stuff on their own.
00:10:00.360
And I think this is how we begin to eradicate it, when we give people the tools and the knowledge
00:10:03.920
and the equipment and experience to be able to do it for themselves.
00:10:09.280
So we did about four operations in a part of Colombia, and every time we pulled out and
00:10:17.640
By the time we left, they were doing operations on their own, using our techniques.
00:10:21.720
So then we went back into the country about four or five months after we'd done our initial
00:10:26.140
operation, and we went to the same places where kids would be getting sold.
00:10:30.720
In this particular region in the country, you'd be talking to street vendors who will
00:10:35.060
sell you anything from cocaine to bracelets, and 70% of those know a child trafficker.
00:10:39.980
So if you just make the right question, they'll send you to them.
00:10:42.840
Well, these guys who I know otherwise would have been for a commission, they'd be sending
00:10:48.620
They were telling us, they were warning us, you can't buy kids here.
00:10:56.100
Have you not seen that these Americans are getting arrested?
00:10:58.240
And I'm sitting back, I'm like, yeah, that was me.
00:11:02.040
And I was with a Colombian officer who was undercover at the time with me, and he grabbed
00:11:06.320
me and we walked around the alley in the old town of Cartagena.
00:11:14.940
We are actually rescuing kids who will never know they needed rescuing because the traveler
00:11:20.840
didn't travel and the trafficker didn't traffic.
00:11:25.240
We are scaring people into entering this black market.
00:11:30.700
Once you get law enforcement empowered to where they are doing, let's say, one or two
00:11:35.300
operations every month, let's say they rescue 10, week one, two, week three.
00:11:40.120
It doesn't matter, but just keep these guys on the run to where they're scared.
00:11:44.080
Because right now, in most countries, they're not scared.
00:11:46.320
They have no problem traveling to some of these countries and engaging in sex with children.
00:11:50.060
And the traffickers have no problem because there's never been a consequence.
00:11:52.400
We are now providing the consequence for the first time.
00:11:57.600
I imagine that's such an empowering feeling and exciting feeling for you, for these vendors
00:12:01.240
to say, hey, we can't even have this conversation.
00:12:03.180
And deep down, you're like, your heart is swelling with the work that you've done.
00:12:07.660
Yeah, it is the best feeling in the world to watch a child come out of captivity.
00:12:14.300
You said these vendors who are selling anywhere from cocaine to bracelets are now being paid
00:12:19.240
And I imagine, and I don't know, I don't want to put words in your mouth or assume the
00:12:22.660
situation, but I can't imagine everybody is a quote-unquote bad guy.
00:12:26.720
Like, are these guys trying to take care of their family?
00:12:28.480
Or like, what would possess a street vendor to engage indirectly in this type of behavior?
00:12:38.080
They will sit with me and show me pictures of 10 little girls who are ages 11, 12, 13,
00:12:49.800
And I've got kids, and I see my kids in these kids' eyes.
00:12:54.240
And I've got to keep the smile on my face and keep going.
00:12:56.820
And then this guy will turn around and show me pictures on the same phone of his little
00:13:01.640
girl who's in a beautiful dress and on her bicycle.
00:13:10.880
They just compartmentalize, and it's just a business for them.
00:13:13.680
Now, they know it's evil, because they'll always give us, hey, you know, be careful.
00:13:19.320
So you got to do this to evade the police, and this and that.
00:13:21.720
I mean, they know for sure that what they're doing is super wrong.
00:13:25.380
But something happened in their brains and their minds, and I don't know what it is.
00:13:29.220
I mean, it's almost demonic, like a demon's taking them over.
00:13:33.400
Like, you have to be a demon, man, because I don't know how you can sell this kid and then
00:13:38.060
talk about your wife and kid and not see the crazy irony and inconsistency here.
00:13:44.340
How do you not jump over the table and just, like, wring these guys' neck?
00:13:48.580
Like, I'm genuinely curious how you maintain composure in these types of things.
00:13:52.320
Is it just an understanding of what the objective is or what?
00:13:55.280
In the beginning, that was very difficult for me.
00:13:59.120
The government put me through a lot of undercover training, and the more we did it,
00:14:02.320
the easier it became, but we have little tricks.
00:14:04.920
Like, if he's showing me a kid in person or a kid on a phone, I just picture that little
00:14:12.540
And if I understand correctly, have you adopted a couple of children that you've rescued as
00:14:18.120
The two of the kids we actually rescued, they're going to be joining our family.
00:14:23.540
But because I have so many kids that range, you know, from 16 down to one, I can always put one
00:14:29.480
of my kids' faces with one of the victims we're working on.
00:14:31.540
And in the beginning, I used to see their eyes, right?
00:14:35.260
I hated it because it just disturbed me so much.
00:14:38.220
But then I learned to kind of harness it and use it and think, like, I love this kid.
00:14:44.980
And that's what I focus on when I want to reach across the table and pull these guys'
00:14:48.380
eyeballs out, is if I do that, this child, you know, my daughter in my mind will not
00:14:59.240
I have to make sure that I let this conversation keep going, even if it lasts for days or weeks
00:15:04.320
and sometimes it's been months to seal the deal.
00:15:06.600
I've got to let them keep talking and I've just got to bear it or else I'll lose this
00:15:11.620
Because if I lose great character, he's gone and the kid's gone.
00:15:14.500
So that's my little trick that I use is I think I'm doing it for my daughter and there's
00:15:21.880
That's what lets me still smile in the face of evil and give the guy a hug and go have
00:15:28.800
Other operators have used different techniques, but that's what I do.
00:15:33.620
I know the guys that are doing these missions with you are special operations guys, mostly
00:15:41.100
How does it contrast with maybe some time in the military?
00:15:47.320
We want the special operators definitely there to help us with security.
00:15:52.400
And if we can get one of them undercover ready, even better.
00:16:04.000
If the crap hits the fan, I know they know what to do to protect the other operators,
00:16:10.920
However, a lot of them, more than half of them actually don't make it through the undercover
00:16:15.640
They'll still be in the van giving us top cover, but we run everybody through a very
00:16:20.280
extensive training where we'll take them to a city and we'll tell them, look, go into
00:16:43.240
So they'll go sit down with this guy, and this guy is one of our trained operators who's
00:16:47.020
been there, done that, has a lot of acting experience, oftentimes, as an undercover operator
00:16:51.880
I've seen guys walk out crying because he'll enforce a conversation where they're going
00:16:55.820
to have to talk about the five-year-old girl like it's a computer or a bike or a vehicle.
00:17:00.960
And if you can't do that, and when I went to undercover school, they told me, or schooled
00:17:04.980
They said, look, we cannot make you an undercover operator.
00:17:08.300
And we're just here to assess whether or not you can do this.
00:17:16.400
And I don't know why, but some people can sit in a room with someone selling a kid and
00:17:22.580
Our ultimate operator is the former special ops guy or the former CIA guy or the former
00:17:33.020
Are these guys volunteering, or are you going out and recruiting?
00:17:37.180
We'll send a general query out, and we'll get dozens and dozens of resumes.
00:17:41.620
And we have a team who goes through and vets out and picks the top 15 based on experience
00:17:48.260
Those 15 will come, and then we'll probably only end up using five of them in the end.
00:17:54.200
When you go on these rescues, and I want to talk maybe a little bit about how these work,
00:17:57.740
and of course, the second part of this, which I think is huge, is the rehab and aftercare
00:18:02.360
that you talk about, have you had these missions go sideways, and how do you deal with that
00:18:10.500
Fortunately, we've never had it go sideways, and this is including in my career, to where
00:18:14.040
the bad guys knew who we were and pulled their guns out on us or something.
00:18:17.820
I've been very blessed that that's never happened.
00:18:22.240
If that happens, I mean, if we get to the point that we're in the deal, they're about
00:18:26.520
to sell us a kid, and we've done something to give up our cover, and then we've really
00:18:31.280
And I can't imagine these guys are trained operators.
00:18:33.980
They're scumbags just trying to make some money.
00:18:38.800
I mean, we've had some deals where they're businessmen, but they'll bring their kind
00:18:42.760
We were in one country where they actually were hiring off-duty police officers to kind
00:18:51.660
They're no different in terms of how they're appearing outward or how they're speaking.
00:18:56.280
They're no different than the guy who's selling you coconut water on the beach.
00:19:03.900
But it's the weirdest thing how you look at them, and they're just functioning like, well, I'm
00:19:07.260
just selling kids, because that's what brings home the bacon, you know?
00:19:09.560
It's almost just like, based on what you're saying, it sounds like it's just a commodity
00:19:16.900
And how human beings can get themselves to that point is what I haven't figured out,
00:19:22.960
There are times when something goes wrong in terms of, shoot, we didn't get the evidence
00:19:28.380
we needed, and how do we get this guy to say that without entrapping him?
00:19:32.160
That's when we have kind of things go sideways, where it's like, what do we do?
00:19:35.740
This guy's not saying enough for the legal system to take it to the next level, to get
00:19:41.320
That's the part that can be very, very frustrating.
00:19:44.440
We always work with the host country under their laws, and sometimes it's very difficult
00:19:49.480
to hit that threshold to where there's a prosecutable crime.
00:19:53.020
Even though we know that this guy's selling kids, he's smart enough not to talk.
00:19:57.800
And that's when you have to have the best undercover operators who know how to not violate the
00:20:01.880
laws of entrapment and say too much and still get the evidence you need.
00:20:06.740
There's been times when we've had to walk away because we just couldn't get enough to
00:20:10.580
legally go to the next step, and it breaks your heart.
00:20:16.000
Guys, I'm sure you get sick of me telling you how great our exclusive brotherhood, the
00:20:20.880
So rather than me tell you how great it is, I'm going to have one of our members tell you.
00:20:27.680
So he's a longtime member, so I think you will agree with and like what he has to say
00:20:33.980
When you can get your head around the fact that your calibration and your condition is
00:20:38.240
completely connected to your connection and contribution, what that means is that your
00:20:42.540
family life is completely connected to your business life and on and on.
00:20:48.000
When you can get your head around that and start executing small steps along with a brotherhood
00:20:53.880
of guys that are doing exactly the same thing, that's when your life is going to change.
00:21:03.240
If you are interested in learning more about the Iron Council and what we're all about,
00:21:13.180
Now let's get back to my conversation with Tim.
00:21:16.820
I've noticed there has been a couple of missions that I've seen just in the research that I did
00:21:23.080
And I can imagine based on the intimacy of the work that you're doing, that would be
00:21:26.940
a very difficult thing not to be able to complete something like that.
00:21:30.060
We had a case once where actually the kids were outside the house.
00:21:35.640
The traffickers were going to bring the kids into the house and we were going to do the
00:21:41.580
They thought it was going to be a sex party with little girls, 12, 11, 13.
00:21:49.320
There's a problem with one of the pieces of evidence or whatever it was.
00:21:52.960
And we had to make an excuse and watch that van turn around and drive back down the street.
00:22:04.240
Fortunately, on that case I'm referring to, we actually came back several weeks later and
00:22:10.700
You're dealing with countries who have never done this before and they want to make sure
00:22:15.140
They want to make sure they don't set a bad legal precedent.
00:22:17.120
That's some of the more difficult maneuvering is getting them set up.
00:22:21.780
We just hired a former prosecutor who works in our office full time to be able to consult
00:22:27.620
our partners in our host countries to make sure that they can really figure this out,
00:22:32.240
set the right legal precedent to make sure that this is not just one hit, but this becomes
00:22:36.740
hundreds of hits and we're able to eradicate this.
00:22:41.540
I'm really interested in your perspective and how your faith plays into the mission that
00:22:46.420
I can only assume that this is well beyond money or a career for you.
00:22:53.580
I'm really interested in your perspective and faith on this.
00:22:56.860
I can say I wouldn't be brave enough at all to do this kind of work, especially as a private
00:23:02.160
organization, which there was a lot of reason to think this is not going to work.
00:23:05.740
But it truly, you know, for my wife and I, it felt like really we were supposed to do
00:23:10.700
this and we are a praying people in a family and we felt we have to do this.
00:23:15.220
You know, it's funny because in this area of criminal investigation, a lot of people
00:23:21.640
They say, how could a God allow for the rape of these little children?
00:23:30.020
But my personal experience has been the opposite, where the closer we get on these cases, I
00:23:42.300
You know, miracles happen that shouldn't happen.
00:23:47.980
And as we go into these dark places, there's a sense of light in these dark places that really
00:23:53.420
keeps our team going and we are not a denominational kind of group.
00:23:57.720
In fact, we have everything from atheists to Jewish folks to Christians of all kinds.
00:24:03.560
But everybody knows that if you're going to come on the operation, there's going to be
00:24:06.400
a prayer, you know, there's going to be a prayer before, there's going to be a prayer
00:24:08.800
after, because we do rely on that light that we feel is guiding us and helping us to do
00:24:14.580
You know, outside of obviously what you're doing with the missions and being hyper involved
00:24:18.580
in the operations and things like that, what do you feel like is the most important
00:24:22.620
factor for you with regards to the general public being on podcasts like this?
00:24:31.560
What more do you feel like you can do to bring attention to this?
00:24:37.180
I do a lot of studying and it comforts me to learn that there's people in history who
00:24:41.360
are my heroes who did things way more difficult than we're doing.
00:24:44.920
And, you know, that's why we call ourselves Operation Underground Railroad.
00:24:47.020
We find so much inspiration in that movement of brave people who put away petty things
00:24:51.720
and of all colors and creeds and got together and helped to alleviate a wicked and evil element
00:24:58.100
And what's interesting is you study that movement.
00:25:00.360
It wasn't the government of the United States that one day raised their hand and said, you
00:25:04.540
know what, after 400 years, we're going to stop enslaving people.
00:25:12.000
People like Harry Beecher Stowe wrote books like Uncle Tom's Cabin.
00:25:19.300
And these are people of all kinds, business guys, traders, commercial folks, stay-at-home
00:25:23.860
moms who had seen enough and read enough and they started organizing.
00:25:28.800
It got so loud and so powerful, this abolitionist movement, that the government finally said,
00:25:37.480
And so in the beginning of this podcast, I explained how this problem is every bit as
00:25:45.860
And so I would expect the solution is going to be the same.
00:25:50.680
We need people in every country to rise up and say, enough is enough.
00:25:54.520
I'm not going to live in a world that allows for this to happen to children or adults.
00:26:00.340
So this is one benefit we have that we didn't have in the government where we couldn't come
00:26:04.800
We can now talk about it, you know, with the permission of our host government partners,
00:26:11.120
We bring cameras into the dark places where kids are being sold.
00:26:14.320
We're trying to become the new Uncle Tom's cabin, you know, through our media.
00:26:18.540
And we encourage other groups and we applaud other groups who are doing the same thing.
00:26:22.320
Because once people see it and they start moving, now we can conquer it.
00:26:27.520
And so the awareness piece is absolutely paramount in our mission.
00:26:32.080
In 2005, 2006, I was in Iraq and the Iraqi people weren't bad people.
00:26:37.520
There was a few insurgents that had managed to penetrate areas that we were in.
00:26:41.640
And these people were so scared and they didn't like what was going on, yet they wouldn't tell
00:26:48.200
And I think based on what you're saying, it sounds like maybe we're getting to the point
00:26:51.760
where these people recognize there's injustice.
00:26:53.740
And hopefully they're getting to the point where they feel comfortable saying, this is what's
00:27:06.800
Everybody knows it's real and they know there's a team to join that will join with you and
00:27:12.980
Let's talk about this and let's get these kids out.
00:27:18.700
And I think if I understand correctly, you have a degree in political science.
00:27:23.520
So you walk an interesting wire because you know a little bit about what's going on behind the
00:27:29.180
You were in government for a lot of years and now you're in the civilian sector.
00:27:32.720
Is it more advantageous to do this through civilians coordinating with governments or
00:27:42.200
There were so many times when I was a government agent where I thought to myself, oh my gosh,
00:27:46.900
I could save 10 kids right now if I could pick up the phone and call somebody who had
00:27:51.980
the ability to get to this bar in Guatemala or get to this brothel down in Columbia.
00:27:58.140
Because oftentimes I'd be in a situation where I'd have a lead, but it was outside the jurisdiction
00:28:05.060
I mean, if I was my own boss, I'd be telling myself, you can't fly down there, Tim.
00:28:12.640
In fact, it will violate the constitution if you go out there.
00:28:15.020
And I thought, oh, but if I could just call someone who could and they could make the touches
00:28:21.020
That's part of the reasoning for creating a private organization is I recognize, man,
00:28:27.040
The most kids I ever rescued as a government agent was seven in one op.
00:28:32.000
I was like, oh my gosh, we can't believe we did that.
00:28:34.340
The most we rescued in OUR in one day on an operation was over 120.
00:28:44.300
It was the host government, the foreign government we're working in.
00:28:53.020
We have to try to recreate that powerhouse of a task force, for lack of a better term.
00:29:01.440
We've helped support a bill by Senator Orrin Hatch.
00:29:05.760
And basically, the whole idea is to formalize a relationship so that imagine if there's an
00:29:10.620
anti-trafficking center somewhere, whether it's in DC or wherever in the world, that has
00:29:15.700
elements from the private sector, the public sector, governments from around the world represented.
00:29:20.200
And you sit around and create these mega operations and the aftercare to go along with it.
00:29:27.460
Because right now, where we go from country to country, we have to reinvent the wheel.
00:29:31.020
Every time we go in, we have to start from scratch, convince them that this works.
00:29:34.760
We're actually working real aggressively with Senator Hatch's office and other great partners
00:29:38.780
on the Hill right now to actually create something that formalizes as much as we can,
00:29:43.980
that relationship between private and public sector, because that's the combination
00:29:50.640
Yeah. I mean, I imagine there's pros and cons to both and you're highlighting that so I can
00:29:53.680
see the power of partnering and hitting both of those sides of things. Did you leave then
00:29:58.400
the Department of Homeland Security and start this movement or was there a gap between there?
00:30:07.700
I left for this. Yeah. So what had happened was enough cases. I had gained enough intel of
00:30:12.940
operation of potential rescues that simply fell out of the jurisdiction of the US. And I'm not
00:30:17.740
saying anything negative, by the way, about the US government. They can only go so far. There's
00:30:21.440
legal mandates and they just can't. As it is, they're going above and beyond. Every country I've
00:30:26.260
been in, the US government is going above and beyond even what they probably should do to help
00:30:31.120
the host countries to help these kids. But there comes a time where it just stops. You know,
00:30:35.100
they can do a thousand things we can't do and we can do a hundred things they can't
00:30:38.800
do. So together, it's just, it puts it all together. Yeah. I left one day and the next
00:30:43.600
day started Operation Underground Railroad. And from day one, my best partners were my former
00:30:48.560
colleagues. In fact, the boss that I had to say goodbye to and turned my badge and gun to
00:30:53.360
as I was crying on his desk and everyone else said, you're crazy. And this guy's name is John
00:30:58.000
Lyons. He said to me, Tim, I think you're crazy too, but I think you're crazy only if you
00:31:03.020
don't try this. Yeah. Because there are gaps that you can fill and together we can do things.
00:31:08.940
Two years later, John Lyons called me. He says, I've been watching you. I want to come work for
00:31:13.420
you. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. He now works for me. He runs all the operations. And this is the kind
00:31:18.200
of conversion we want everyone to get is look, let's join forces. We've got to come together.
00:31:22.540
One of the things you're alluding to, and I say this quite a bit is that leaders go first. So it's
00:31:25.740
really interesting to hear you where people say you're crazy and take that risk and go first and then see
00:31:30.920
a former boss recognize what you're doing and then decide to follow what you're doing. That's pretty
00:31:36.340
cool. It was an amazing day when I got to bring him over here and he's actually changed us for the
00:31:41.980
better in so many ways. It's amazing. But yeah, this is what we're trying to do is it's all about
00:31:45.980
forging these partnerships. Tim, we're winding down on time a little bit here. I want to stretch this
00:31:49.980
out just a little bit because I want to talk about the aftercare because I think that's really
00:31:54.040
important. I think it'd be really easy to see how traumatizing this can be for these children
00:31:58.360
in the moment and during the situation. And of course it is, I'm not downplaying that, but I
00:32:03.060
think there's probably a lot of ongoing issues as well. Can you talk to me about what that aftercare
00:32:08.640
looks like and what's included in that? The aftercare is absolutely the most important part
00:32:13.340
of our mission. Increasingly so is the more kids we rescue, we go back to these countries. We don't
00:32:19.060
leave and just think it's all going to be okay. We only do a rescue in a country if we know that
00:32:25.240
that aftercare piece is in place and we take an active role in that. We're not experts in
00:32:29.860
aftercare. In other words, we don't have a team of therapists that go in, but we have the best
00:32:34.320
vetting unit that I know of. They go into the country first. When we're called on to go into
00:32:38.960
a country, we send our aftercare team first. And their job is to find partners, NGOs, private
00:32:45.260
organizations that have therapists, that have the basic needs covered, that have opportunities to
00:32:50.740
offer these girls and these kids because we have to go into a rescue under the assumption
00:32:55.080
that every kid we rescue has nowhere to go. That's not the case. Usually there is a loving family
00:33:00.460
that can take these kids, but too often the family was part of it or they're non-existent.
00:33:05.920
So we have to really get that piece in place beforehand. And we'll spend months, even up to a
00:33:10.720
year or more, I think in one country we did, before we'll do a rescue because then those kids have to
00:33:15.660
come back to a place where they can be rehabilitated. And we continue to come back and
00:33:20.720
make sure they have what they need. And we'll write grants to our aftercare partners so they can
00:33:25.120
provide occupational training, for example, or provide anything that they need. It truly is the
00:33:30.880
most important part of our operation. There is no rescue if the kids can't be rehabilitated or if
00:33:35.660
there's any chance that they get thrown somehow back into the trafficking rings.
00:33:39.460
Right. I imagine if that's not set up, it just creates a void in a vacuum to be filled again.
00:33:44.960
So then it sounds like this aftercare is funded by your organization or is that in partnership
00:33:49.320
with some of these outside government agencies or how does that work?
00:33:53.340
Usually we'll find a group that we vet. And if we like that group, generally they're underfunded,
00:33:58.640
almost always they're underfunded. So we'll tell them, look, we love what you're doing. We want
00:34:03.300
to go do a rescue in this city and we think we're going to rescue potentially 20 kids. What do you need
00:34:09.040
so that you can offer what you're offering to these five to 20 more? They tell us what they need
00:34:13.920
and we make sure that part of our rescue budget goes to that. So we get it all set up. They're ready
00:34:20.200
to go. They literally have beds made before we start doing the operation so we know that there's
00:34:26.180
somewhere for them to go. And then after the rescue happens, we follow up. We have an aftercare team
00:34:31.300
that basically lives on an airplane and all they do is fly from one country to another country,
00:34:36.040
checking in on the kids that we've rescued, making sure they have what they need. And if they don't,
00:34:40.260
we make sure we get what they need to them until they eventually, you know, this is their home and
00:34:45.100
we're their family. And that's how we look at it. Very cool. Well, Tim, obviously we can talk a lot
00:34:49.840
more about this, but we're winding down on time and we're going to encourage everybody to check out
00:34:53.520
your organization and what you're doing. As we wind things down, I do want to ask you a couple of
00:34:57.480
questions. First question is what does it mean to be a man? It means that you are constantly looking
00:35:03.580
for the downtrodden, the captive. You're constantly looking for those people who are lost, who are
00:35:11.380
hurt, and that you act, that you go do something. You liberate the captive. You feed the hungry. You
00:35:17.860
heal the wounded. But to be a man, I think, requires that you're proactively looking for those
00:35:23.520
opportunities, not just waiting for something to fall in your lap, but you're looking for them and
00:35:28.040
you're willing to go into the dark place where they are to provide that ministry to them.
00:35:33.080
Powerful stuff. Well, let's be proactive here as the guys listening in, because I think there's
00:35:36.680
some opportunities here to get involved in different capacities. So I think we need to
00:35:40.320
know how to connect with you, how to learn more about your organization and how to get involved
00:35:44.560
to different degrees. We would encourage everyone to come check us out at OURrescue.org. We're very
00:35:50.980
transparent about what we do. We tell what we can about what we do and always with operational
00:35:55.360
security in mind. We have a lot of footage. We film what we can. We want people to know this is real
00:36:00.000
and convert them to our cause. So we'd encourage people to check that out. Also, you can check out
00:36:04.220
our podcast, Slave Stealer Podcast, where we go on and tell people about these stories
00:36:08.380
and reminding them again how they can get involved to help us fight the darkest thing to ever hit the
00:36:12.700
world. We'll make sure we link everything up so guys know exactly where to go. Tim, I appreciate
00:36:17.480
you more than anything. I just appreciate you being willing, as you said, to go in those dark places
00:36:22.200
and be proactive about stepping up and being a man. So I admire you. I respect you. And I'm excited to be
00:36:28.160
able to have the chance to talk with you and appreciate your work. Thank you so much. It's
00:36:31.700
been an absolute honor. I'm a fan of your show and it's an honor to be here. Thanks so much.
00:36:36.360
Gentlemen, there it is. My conversation with Tim Ballard. I think that you can agree that this is
00:36:40.760
an inspiring interview, not just because of the work Tim is doing, but because he's shown us the
00:36:45.740
path to doing something about the biggest problems that you and I see in the world. And at the end of
00:36:50.500
the day, men are problem solvers. And this is a guy who is solving some big, big problems in the
00:36:55.540
world. Again, if you would head over to Twitter or Instagram or Facebook, wherever you're doing the
00:37:01.120
social media thing and let me and Tim know what you thought about the conversation. And if you want
00:37:05.920
the links, if you need the links that we talked about today, head to order of man.com slash one
00:37:10.680
three seven. And as we wind things down today, guys, remember what our member of the iron council
00:37:16.500
Reese had to say about his experience inside of our brotherhood. If you are interested in learning
00:37:20.960
more head to order of man.com slash iron council, order of man.com slash iron council. I will look
00:37:27.520
forward to talking with you on Friday for our Friday field notes, but until then take action
00:37:31.740
and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.
00:37:37.580
You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.
00:37:41.360
We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.