Order of Man - 142： Developing, Operating, and Expanding a Business ｜ Cameron Herald

00:00:00.000 Running a business can be a challenge. I know I own two of them. At times,

00:00:04.140 things seem to be firing on all cylinders. And at other times, it seems like I'm just barely

00:00:08.700 hanging on. But regardless of where you are with your business, and even if you're an employee of

00:00:13.340 a business, there is always, always something to be learned in how to run the operation more

00:00:18.600 effectively. My guest today, Cameron Herold, grew 1-800-GOT-JUNK from $2 million in revenue to over

00:00:24.300 $106 million in revenue in just six short years, among other amazing business accomplishments.

00:00:31.540 Today, we talk about developing a board of advisors, attracting top quality talent,

00:00:36.020 creating work-life balance, which I know is a big one for a lot of you, including myself,

00:00:40.120 the art of delegation, and how to develop, operate, and expand a business.

00:00:44.420 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:49.440 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:54.880 You are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is

00:01:01.520 who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:01:07.240 you can call yourself a man.

00:01:09.560 Men, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler, and I am the host and founder of this

00:01:13.760 podcast, The Order of Man. I am glad that you are tuning in with us today. As always,

00:01:18.400 you probably know by now that this is a show about becoming a better man, and if you didn't know

00:01:23.440 that, you now know what we're all about. We are interviewing the world's most successful men.

00:01:28.360 We're distilling their tips and their tricks and tactics and strategies, and then we're

00:01:32.920 delivering those straight to you. We have got a great one lined up for you today, as we always do.

00:01:37.880 This is on the topic of running a business and an organization more effectively, and whether you're

00:01:42.120 a business owner or an employee, you're going to get so much, so much value out of this one

00:01:48.120 like I did, so make sure you have your notepad out and you're ready to go. I do, before we get to

00:01:53.160 that, want to give you some details on our meetup, which is going to be coming up in Nashville on

00:01:59.480 January 26th and 27th, 2018. I've had quite a few people reach out and message asking about it,

00:02:05.940 so if you want the details, you can head to orderofman.com slash Nashville to get registered

00:02:11.100 and get the details for that. This is also going to be a book launch party. A lot of you guys know

00:02:15.920 the book is coming out in February, 2018, so if you get registered, you're actually going to get

00:02:20.920 a signed copy a couple days before it's available to everybody else, and of course, you're going to

00:02:25.380 get the brotherhood and the camaraderie that is going to be happening. Again, Nashville, 2018,

00:02:31.100 January 26th and 27th. It's at orderofman.com slash Nashville. I hope to see you there.

00:02:37.040 Now, outside of that, make sure that you subscribe to the show so you never miss a single episode,

00:02:41.460 and if you would, please share this podcast with your brother and your father and your friends and

00:02:47.140 your colleagues, whoever needs to hear this show. I don't ask that you share a whole lot, and of

00:02:51.100 course, it helps to go a long way in expanding the mission of the order and getting the reach out

00:02:57.140 there and making sure that more men are getting the information that I think more of us need to

00:03:01.540 find out and know about. With that said, guys, let me introduce you to my guest today. His name is

00:03:06.220 Cameron Harreld. He is a speaker, an author, a business coach. He works with CEOs and CEOs around

00:03:12.440 the world. What I like most about Cameron is his no BS approach to building and scaling businesses.

00:03:18.580 He has such an ability to cut to the heart of the matter and eliminate anything, anything that keeps

00:03:23.760 businesses from growing. As you did hear earlier, Cameron grew 1-800-GOT-JUNK from $2 million in

00:03:29.780 annual revenue to $106 million in annual revenue and has led and operated multiple other $100 million

00:03:37.800 businesses. You'll see why that is as you hear Cameron and I talk about scaling businesses,

00:03:43.160 the things that keep businesses from thriving, how to make the most of every single minute,

00:03:47.520 and to maximize results with employees, officers, and the organization as a whole.

00:03:53.860 Cameron, what's going on? Thanks for joining us on the show today.

00:03:56.580 Hey, Ryan. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

00:03:58.100 Yeah, you bet. I'm excited to talk with you. I've followed you and your work for some time and

00:04:01.600 seen what you've done with businesses. I'm really excited because there's a lot of guys who are

00:04:06.180 either in the world of entrepreneurship, they own businesses, or they're just getting started.

00:04:09.880 And I think having this discussion will really help them have some tools and resources to take

00:04:14.320 this thing to the next level if that's what they want to do. So I want to lead this discussion off by

00:04:19.740 asking what entrepreneurship even is. I think there's a lot of maybe misconceptions about

00:04:24.320 entrepreneurism and what it looks like, how we define that, and maybe even why that's important

00:04:28.740 if you wouldn't mind sharing with us.

00:04:30.360 I think entrepreneurship is that when someone sees a problem or an opportunity and decides to

00:04:35.140 almost take it into their own hands and is also willing to put some risk at stake. They're willing

00:04:40.340 to go out and take their own rewards, but they're also willing to risk along the way. And from the

00:04:44.840 outside world, a lot of people think that entrepreneurs are risky. I think entrepreneurs themselves feel that

00:04:50.020 it's less risky because they're more in control of their own destiny.

00:04:53.600 Yeah, that's a really good distinction. I know for me, I used to be in the corporate world and

00:04:57.600 work for other companies. I don't anymore, but that was always a risky proposition from my perspective

00:05:03.000 because I did see this as somebody in a way having my fate in their hands and not really a whole lot

00:05:09.280 of control over my own destiny, if you will.

00:05:12.300 Yeah. And you never know. You're going to wake up first thing in the morning and all of a sudden

00:05:14.680 somebody says they're downsizing or you've been fired or they found someone younger or prettier or

00:05:18.280 smarter. And it's like, well, shit, how did that happen? I was loyal to you right up until a minute 1.00

00:05:22.420 ago. Sure. But in the business world, when you're your own entrepreneur, you're the one who's calling

00:05:27.140 a shot. So you're never going to get fired. You might get tired. You might get stressed. You might

00:05:30.600 run out of cash, but you're at least in complete control. I think we have to be maybe a little

00:05:35.320 careful. And I don't know if that's the right word necessarily, but I think especially in this

00:05:39.280 digital age that we live in, the podcast world we live in, I think everybody's so quick to say

00:05:43.620 everybody should be an entrepreneur and everybody should own a business. So I'd like to know a little bit

00:05:47.780 about maybe who should and who should not even consider owning a business or starting their own

00:05:52.040 side hustle, if you will. Yeah. I only think about 3% of people should actually be an entrepreneur.

00:05:56.640 I did a Ted talk around this seven years ago. It's still on the main ted.com website about raising

00:06:00.780 kids as entrepreneurs. And it talks about the fact that, you know, it's nurture and nature that you

00:06:05.100 actually have to have the core behavioral traits of entrepreneurship within you. And then you can learn

00:06:09.840 how to be a better entrepreneur or business owner. Most entrepreneurs are ADD. So they actually see

00:06:15.220 everything that's going on. They don't get completely obsessed with one thing. So that

00:06:18.180 attention deficit disorder is actually not a disorder. It's a superpower. Most entrepreneurs

00:06:22.380 are bipolar and it's the high energy is why people follow us. The stress and the depression is just

00:06:27.540 because we're feeling it all magnified and we kind of crash afterwards. Many entrepreneurs are on the

00:06:32.320 spectrum for Tourette's, which is, you know, this thinking out loud. And that's actually an endearing

00:06:36.660 trait when people can see where we're going and they understand what we're thinking. And those are

00:06:40.300 typically traits. And then we're also kind of calculated. We're good at sales. We're strong

00:06:44.380 leaders. So a lot of people don't have those traits. If you do, then you can learn how to run

00:06:49.480 a business. But, you know, running a business isn't easy. It's probably one of the more stressful

00:06:53.340 things. Yes, you can have free time, but you're also working all the time. There's a lot of skills

00:06:58.260 that you have to learn as an entrepreneur. So I think 3% of people should be entrepreneurs.

00:07:02.020 It's really interesting that you would bring up three, quote unquote, what the world perceives as a

00:07:06.280 disorder, ADD, bipolar, and Tourette's. You basically described me in a lot of ways. And I

00:07:10.640 know that I've certainly had times in my life where those have worked to my advantage. And of course,

00:07:15.000 times they have not worked to my advantage. So one of the things that you mentioned, though,

00:07:19.280 is that entrepreneurs are good at sales. Is that necessarily a prerequisite? Or is this somebody

00:07:25.620 who might be able to, you know, start a business, for example, and bring somebody in to do the sales,

00:07:29.980 if you will? Or is this like a necessity? No, the sales side is a skill that you can learn and get

00:07:35.440 better at. But the sales aptitude or the sales personality, like you're going to have those

00:07:40.120 personality traits. You know, you're not going to find very many salespeople that are analytical,

00:07:44.820 amiable, and are quiet, right? Most salespeople are dominant and they're expressives. So that's

00:07:49.180 a personality trait. Leaders, you're either a leader or you're not. And I had somebody say,

00:07:53.340 well, the guy's only 21 years old. How would you know if he's a leader? I'm like, really?

00:07:56.980 By 21, I'd been the head cub, head scout. I'd run my newspaper route. I hired people to run

00:08:01.480 newspapers. I ran the pro shop at the golf club. I was a busboy who got promoted to a waiter. I was

00:08:06.160 on student council three years. And then I was on the leadership team of the student council in my

00:08:09.600 last year. I was on the sports executive. And that's by the time I was 18. Oh, then I started

00:08:14.020 a fraternity. Like, really? By the time you're 21, you know if you're a leader or not. Don't tell me

00:08:19.080 you have to be 30 to figure it out. That's a trait, right? You can learn to become a better leader,

00:08:24.500 but you're either a leader or you're not. You're either the one who's organizing your kids in the

00:08:28.060 schoolyard or you're not. And those are traits of entrepreneurship that I think if you can see

00:08:32.620 them in someone, you can say, wow, those are really strong skills and traits. Let's groom them.

00:08:37.760 Typically, what happens in the school system is we say, wow, that person isn't like everybody else.

00:08:42.680 We should try to make them like everybody else. We should tell them to sit still and pay attention

00:08:46.740 and memorize stuff and sit in the back of the room with the other kids and go to detention because

00:08:50.840 they're acting out. Well, entrepreneurs do act out. Entrepreneurs do talk a lot. Entrepreneurs

00:08:55.380 do think out loud. Entrepreneurs do problem-solve. Entrepreneurs like the shortcuts. We like the

00:09:00.000 cheat sheets. We are going to be a little bit scattered. And we're just not supposed to be

00:09:03.600 like teachers. We're not wired like teachers. We're not wired like engineers. We're not wired

00:09:07.940 like doctors. So they diagnose this as having a disorder. But if you look at Henry Ford and

00:09:12.760 Richard Branson and Steve Jobs, like all diagnosed as bipolar or hypomanic. Richard Branson is dyslexic

00:09:19.920 and bipolar. Like, give me a break. These are disorders? No, these are superpowers. 0.78

00:09:23.700 If I read you the 11 traits of bipolar disorder right now, I can virtually guarantee that if

00:09:28.640 you're an entrepreneur, you're going to say yes to nine or 10. If you're an accountant or

00:09:32.260 an engineer or a teacher, you'll probably say yes to one or two. Interesting. Yeah, we'll

00:09:36.360 have to look that up. Maybe we can even make a link in the show notes because that would

00:09:39.140 be interesting to actually run through that because I think there's power in just having

00:09:43.080 an understanding of who you are and why you behave the way that you behave. And then I

00:09:47.120 think you can create a life around those patterns and behaviors, right? Yeah, totally.

00:09:51.240 And if you recognize that these are strengths, like attention deficit disorder, if you recognize

00:09:56.660 that ADD means you're scattered, that you see everything, that you're distracted by everything.

00:10:01.780 Well, in the business world, that means I can see what's happening with the customer,

00:10:04.740 the market, the economy, my employees, financials, the pulse, the culture. I can kind of see what's

00:10:09.660 happening with the wrong customers, good customers. I get it, right? But I don't get too obsessed with

00:10:14.060 anything. And if I do, I get really obsessed for maybe 15 or 20 minutes and then I get bored and I

00:10:18.040 delegate it to somebody. Shit, that's actually a good entrepreneur, right? But if you're so focused, 0.99

00:10:24.180 laser focused like an engineer is, you miss everything else. Well, great. So now you're

00:10:28.600 really focused, but you've missed what's really happening.

00:10:31.240 So based on what I'm hearing you say, I think self-awareness is probably a critical skill as

00:10:36.940 well. Because if you are that quote unquote ADD and scattered maybe a little in your thoughts or

00:10:41.460 onto the next object very quickly, I think you need to at least to some degree be aware of that

00:10:46.380 so that you can then delegate to somebody who might be more of an analytical or some other

00:10:50.940 trait that you aren't as strong with. And that's where the skills start to come in,

00:10:54.420 that you start now hiring people to surround you that have different personality profiles for you.

00:10:58.420 You hire some high D's and some high S's. You hire people with Colby profiles that are high

00:11:02.440 fact binders and follow throughs because you're more of a quick start. So you start recognizing that

00:11:06.620 you need to hire skill set and personality profiles to strengthen you so that you can pass off to those

00:11:11.960 people. Much like a quarterback. You know, a quarterback may not be the fastest runner or

00:11:15.920 the best receiver, but he can pass to those people or hand off to those people. So you start

00:11:20.480 recognizing that as an entrepreneur as well. Where the classic student, the really strong A student

00:11:25.920 believes that they have to be the smartest person, that they have to memorize everything and know

00:11:30.380 everything. They make terrible entrepreneurs because they're always trying to be the smart one.

00:11:34.640 It's why a lot of MBAs are never really good as entrepreneurs. And a lot of the C students are

00:11:38.920 fantastic entrepreneurs because they figured out the cheat sheets and the shortcuts and to delegate.

00:11:44.020 Or that in this particular instance, I don't need an A, I just need to pass so I can get the degree

00:11:47.620 and do the thing, right? Right. I call it minimum viable everything. You don't just need a minimum

00:11:51.940 viable product. Like how about just a great website or a good website? How about a good marketing campaign?

00:11:55.860 Not a great one. Just get stuff out the door instead of obsessing about everything about being

00:12:00.180 perfect. Let's just get it out the door. Yeah. We just released a podcast interview with

00:12:04.940 John Acuff, who I'm sure you're familiar with. And he talks about the myth and the demise,

00:12:10.080 I guess, if you will, of perfection and how crippling it can be towards your growth. It's really

00:12:15.180 interesting you talk about this because I just started coaching my oldest son's football team

00:12:19.200 and we had our first practice last week and he was a little down on himself because some of his

00:12:23.940 teammates are fairly quick. He's a big kid. He's not very fast. And so he was judging himself

00:12:28.700 based on what other people were doing. But I thought to myself and had the discussion with him,

00:12:32.580 I'm like, look, dude, you're a big kid. You're strong. You're big. If anybody gets in your way,

00:12:37.320 you can push them around. And there's something to be said for that. Those kids won't be able to

00:12:41.220 do the same things you do. I think it's critical. We understand our strengths.

00:12:44.500 Exactly. And in the school system, we're always beat up and told to work on our weaknesses,

00:12:49.040 get a tutor because you suck at French or get a tutor to be a stronger or a faster athlete. Well,

00:12:54.720 how about no? How about we actually just become a strong one? There's a guy, Bill Eaton,

00:12:58.240 who was the number two blocker of all time in the NBA. And he was seven foot four,

00:13:02.980 played for the Utah Jazz. And he's like, I can't run up and down the court. The coach goes, don't,

00:13:07.180 you should never go past center court. You're too freaking big. Like just walk from the basket 0.78

00:13:11.540 to center court and from center court to the basket, walk back and forth. Don't run. You'll

00:13:14.900 kill yourself. So that's what he did. And here's a guy in the NBA who couldn't run, 1.00

00:13:18.920 but he wasn't supposed to run. But in the school system, they would have tried to make him a runner.

00:13:22.780 Interesting. So in addition to delegation, finding the right people, understanding your

00:13:27.280 strengths, what are some things that entrepreneurs should either be aware of as they are launching

00:13:32.460 their business or scaling their business? Or we can even talk about separately, what are some

00:13:36.720 pitfalls to avoid? The most important thing, and most entrepreneurs fail at this, but the most

00:13:41.500 important thing is vision. And it's articulating a vision in a way that everyone around you, your

00:13:47.120 customers, your suppliers, your employees, potential employees, that everyone can see what

00:13:52.320 you can see. So I actually cover it in really good detail in two of my books, in Double Double

00:13:56.300 and also in The Miracle Morning for Entrepreneurs. I talk about a concept called a vivid vision.

00:14:02.340 And the vivid vision is a four or five page written document that describes your company

00:14:07.000 in vivid detail three years from today. So almost like you lean out to December 31st,

00:14:12.100 three years from now, and describe your company in vivid detail. You describe marketing and IT,

00:14:17.680 describe finance and operations. You describe what the customers are saying about you,

00:14:21.660 what your employees are saying. You talk about what the media is writing about you. And you

00:14:25.660 don't worry about how it happens because you're not sure how it happened. But you describe it in

00:14:29.900 that detail and then your team can figure out how to make it come true. Typically what happens now is

00:14:34.780 entrepreneurs give them a mission statement and a BHAG, your core purpose, but no one's really clear on

00:14:40.360 what the business looks like. So if you can have that real clear vision, then people can figure out how.

00:14:45.880 I've done things similar to what you're talking about, probably not as in depth or to the degree

00:14:51.260 that you're talking about. And I've done these mission statements and these sorts of things

00:14:54.380 and to play devil's advocate and a little bit in my experiences, I do it and it feels good and it

00:14:58.340 feels warm and fuzzy for a week or two or whatever it may be. And then I forget about it or don't even

00:15:02.460 address it with anybody down the road. How do we ensure that we are communicating this vision and

00:15:07.080 then actually implementing what it is it talks about? Vision without execution is hallucination.

00:15:12.080 And that was kind of Thomas Edison. So here's how it works. I took a model of a contractor or a home

00:15:17.040 builder and applied it to the business world. If I was building a house, the homeowner is really the

00:15:22.260 CEO. The homeowner knows what they want the house to look like. They've got pictures and drawings and

00:15:26.280 sketches. That's kind of the vivid vision of what the home looks like. Now the contractor takes all

00:15:31.040 those visions and goes away and comes up with a plan, the blueprints to make the vision come true.

00:15:37.160 So in the business world, we need to now take the vivid vision and create the three-year,

00:15:41.520 two-year, and one-year plan and then the quarterly plan for the first year.

00:15:46.720 And then you hand that plan or the blueprints to the workers and the workers can now build the

00:15:51.640 homeowner's dream. So now you hand the plan to your employees and you hire employees that have got the

00:15:56.400 skills and the right culture fit to make happen what they're supposed to do. Hire people who have

00:16:00.680 done what they have to do. And then you coach and train them and they grow.

00:16:04.700 So do you suggest that this contractor, if you will, that's a term you used, would be somebody

00:16:09.760 else that you've hired and when should you consider making that decision? Because when you get started,

00:16:14.840 a lot of times it's, I'm the CEO, I'm the COO, I'm everything, right?

00:16:18.560 Correct. So you may play now the homeowner role of getting the vision articulated, which is your

00:16:22.700 vivid vision. And then you're going to play the leadership team role of building the plan to make

00:16:27.380 your vision. So you'll create your own plan for three years, two years, and one year, really focusing

00:16:31.260 on the one-year plan. And then you'll actually be the employees or the workers to start building it.

00:16:36.300 So you'll look at different aspects, different parts of the plan, and you'll figure out which

00:16:39.500 projects to work on first. It's horrible watching employees and watching companies work on the

00:16:43.880 wrong stuff. They're working on projects that are either the big shiny object or they're exciting or

00:16:48.200 cool, but they don't have the core foundational pieces in place first. You know, core values,

00:16:52.520 core purpose, your BHAG, the right meeting rhythms, the right employee recruiting and hiring and

00:16:57.640 onboarding systems, even if you're hiring remote or fractional people. So I kind of try to outline a lot

00:17:03.240 of that in Double Double for people as well. You talk about BHAG. I'm not familiar with that term.

00:17:07.500 Can you walk me through that? Sure. It's a Jim Collins term for big, hairy, audacious goal.

00:17:12.480 Ah, okay. Best example is it's a 20 or 30 year out goal, one that the external world might think is

00:17:18.520 crazy, but internally you think is possible. And one that will really drive people and inspire people.

00:17:23.900 So a great example of a BHAG is about 30 years ago, Microsoft's BHAG was a computer on every desktop.

00:17:29.960 And then about 10 years later, they abridged that to say a computer on every desktop and in every

00:17:34.820 household. Now I'm 52 years old. So 30 years ago when I was 22, that was a ludicrous goal.

00:17:40.140 Right. Like there was no reason. Absolutely crazy. Yeah. There was no reason in 1987 for a computer

00:17:44.520 on every desk. In fact, we had two of them at our office of about 30 people and people were laughing

00:17:48.940 going, what do you have two computers for? That's so stupid. And we're like, yeah, whatever. 1.00

00:17:52.200 Well, here's what else is interesting. So their BHAG of a computer on every desk and later in every

00:17:56.580 household was a big stretch, but they didn't even make computers. So their big, hairy, audacious 0.50

00:18:02.320 goal was to create software that would give people the desire to have computers. And then they licensed

00:18:08.480 DOS, the operating system to computer companies and their software. So that even though they didn't

00:18:12.840 make computers, their BHAG was about that. It wasn't about a million customers.

00:18:18.620 And I hear that. And I think a lot of the times, like we maybe lack that vision or that

00:18:23.080 understanding. I mean, how does a company like that, or even just a one man shop get to that

00:18:26.920 point where they're starting to have visions like that of these goals?

00:18:30.440 You start to come up with something that just feels right. So my BHAG for my company is to

00:18:34.460 replace vision statements with vivid visions worldwide, because I just know that vision

00:18:39.800 statements, mission statements don't work. And every time a company or a government or anybody

00:18:44.520 writes a vivid vision for themselves, for their family, for their business, it actually really

00:18:49.920 aligns everyone. So that's my BHAG is to replace them. Now, I can't do it on my own.

00:18:54.140 But with the media, with the books I'm writing, you know, Forbes covered me in their physical

00:18:57.620 magazine about the vivid vision. The more that people start using it and sharing it with their

00:19:02.540 employees, with their suppliers, with their customers, the more it's starting to come true.

00:19:06.460 I'm speaking at an event for all the female McDonald's franchisees. I'm the only male speaker to ever

00:19:11.540 speak at this conference of about 300 people. And McDonald's has just rolled out

00:19:15.740 their prototype of what the ideal McDonald's location looks like three years from now.

00:19:21.680 They're literally showing this envisioned future of a McDonald's location with healthier food,

00:19:26.860 more organic farm to table, like really interesting stuff. And they're trying to get

00:19:31.080 the franchisees to wrap their minds around it while they're showing them what the future looks like.

00:19:34.900 Pretty cool stuff.

00:19:36.440 How do you build in flexibility with a plan like that? Not only this three-year vision,

00:19:40.000 but then you also talk about working backwards into a one-year plan.

00:19:43.160 How do we make sure that we're incorporating flexibility and new technologies and these

00:19:47.460 sorts of things that come along?

00:19:49.140 Well, that's all the how. If you know where you're going, the how you get there,

00:19:53.100 you can incorporate. So if I'm building a home, I don't want to just build a home and go,

00:19:57.260 here, what do you think? The homeowner will be like, yeah, it's really nice,

00:20:00.160 but I wanted a craftsman style. You built me a postmodern.

00:20:03.160 Now, if we decide that we're going to use new tools or new saws or new leveling equipment or new

00:20:08.200 automation, that's all cool. But at least we have people going in the right direction.

00:20:12.240 People tend to worry that this is going to hamstring someone. Not at all. It actually

00:20:18.140 gets employees excited. I'll give you an example. Have you ever heard the story of the three guys

00:20:22.880 that are sitting out on the sidewalk and they're making bricks? Guy comes up and he goes,

00:20:27.020 what are you doing? He goes, well, I'm making bricks. And they asked the second guy, what are

00:20:30.040 you doing? He said, well, I'm making a wall and I'm actually making the bricks to make a wall.

00:20:34.120 And they asked the third guy, what are you doing? He said, I'm making a cathedral to worship God and

00:20:37.340 I'm making the wall for the cathedral and I'm actually making the bricks that'll build the wall.

00:20:40.620 Who is more inspired and more excited about their day-to-day job? Well, it's the guy who knows

00:20:45.460 where they're going and what they're building. And in the business world, if you're showing up and

00:20:49.020 you're doing pay-per-click and you're focusing on your digital search, but you're not really sure

00:20:52.400 what you're building, at some point it just becomes about search and it starts to lose meaning.

00:20:57.520 And Gen Y especially wants meaning. They want to have value in what they're doing and understand why 0.62

00:21:01.240 they're showing up every day.

00:21:02.100 Well, and I imagine too, if you have this vision and you have this idea of what you want,

00:21:06.820 and that's the what, for example, then the how, you can basically morph and mold and adapt

00:21:12.180 the how in order to accomplish the what along the way, right? And you have something to measure

00:21:16.660 against.

00:21:17.940 Bingo. Exactly. When you're excited about where you're going, then people can figure out how

00:21:21.520 they're going to get there. And that's when your employees all of a sudden get excited and

00:21:24.540 aligned and they'll figure out and iterate along the way. And if you have this massive change in the

00:21:28.880 world, like a global financial crisis, and all of a sudden the vision of your company completely 0.99

00:21:32.500 changes, like you go from being a home builder to a restaurant chain, well, shit, at least everybody 0.97

00:21:37.480 knows that and you can get everybody to pivot really quickly. But if they're not really sure 0.96

00:21:41.340 where you're going in the first place, they don't even understand why the changes are coming.

00:21:44.960 Right. Yeah. I mean, we've been running Order of Man for two and a half years and we've made some

00:21:48.440 pivotal changes and course corrections along the way, just in a short period of time, because we

00:21:52.380 recognize very quickly that the path we were on is not going to help us, A, fulfill the requirement or the

00:21:57.640 accomplishment that we want, or B, it's not going to help us do it fast enough. And so we've been

00:22:01.480 able to pivot based on that. So that makes sense to me. It makes a lot of sense. I want to go back

00:22:05.500 to something that we were talking about, and that is having somebody else like the contractor, for

00:22:09.820 example, to help you with some of these plans. How do we know when it's time to bring on some help?

00:22:16.800 You know, we've been used to going at it alone and doing everything on our own. What is that point

00:22:21.460 where you should consider bringing on some people and who is that that you should consider bringing on?

00:22:25.220 And by the way, it's another reason why I can't stand the school system is because it's raised all

00:22:29.740 of these people to think that they have to work hard. They have to be the smart person. They have

00:22:33.580 to do it on their own instead of problem solving, working together as a group, realizing that

00:22:37.080 everybody can work on parts of the project. And it's better to have everybody working on it than

00:22:41.580 doing it all yourself. Well, I imagine it's a pride and ego thing too, right? It can be. But again,

00:22:46.940 when you think that most entrepreneurs are ADD bipolar and where most of them were B and C

00:22:51.040 students, they've been beat up emotionally for 18 years, feeling like they had to be the smart

00:22:55.560 ones. As soon as you let go of the pride thing and realize, you know, Steve Jobs didn't build Apple

00:23:00.460 by himself. Is he proud of what he built? Fuck yeah. Right. But he got other people to do it.

00:23:05.140 You know, you teach your son, if he's going to be the best football team, there's no I in team,

00:23:09.440 right? Like you've got to be the best person in your space, but you have to rely on the other people

00:23:13.200 on the field and both sides of the team. So in a business, it's the same thing. I think it's smarter

00:23:18.240 to be the lazier entrepreneur and to delegate and to outsource. I had a client that I coached. I

00:23:23.880 coached big companies and CEOs all over the world. And one of the CEOs I was talking to said, I need

00:23:28.440 to hire someone to do this. I'm like, no, you need to get this done. And he goes, you're right. He

00:23:33.140 goes, I actually don't need a person. I just need this stuff done. So as soon as you realize that I

00:23:37.640 have stuff on my plate this year or this quarter, no, you have stuff that needs to be done. It's not

00:23:43.560 necessarily on your plate. Right. Even the emails that come in, you can delete them,

00:23:47.480 delegate them, drag them to a folder, or you can deal with them later, but you don't have to do

00:23:52.520 them all yourself. Gentlemen, just a quick time out to talk with you about our sponsor health IQ

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00:24:52.380 This time of year, you're probably thinking a lot about new year's resolutions and what you want

00:24:56.620 2018 to look like for you. But if you're anything, anything like me, you know, that new year's

00:25:01.340 resolutions rarely work out. Uh, that said inside of our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council,

00:25:06.660 we've created a system that allows you to approach things a lot differently and actually produce the

00:25:12.500 results long-term that you're after. We call it the battle plan. And we've taken what works in goal

00:25:17.460 setting and stripped away all the nonsense and the things that don't work. And then what's left is a

00:25:21.960 very clear course of action that actually, again, gets the job done. And when you band with us,

00:25:26.820 you're going to have access to of course the battle plan, but hundreds of other men who are going to

00:25:31.120 hold your feet to the fire when it comes to accomplishing what you set out to accomplish.

00:25:35.720 So join us this month and together with the brothers inside of the iron council,

00:25:40.120 we'll help you make 2018 your best year ever in your relationships and your business and your health,

00:25:45.600 your life. This is an opportunity to do something great. And you can do that at order of man.com

00:25:51.160 slash iron council again, order of man.com slash iron council. Now let's get back to the conversation

00:25:56.760 with Cameron. It sounds like based on what you're saying is that obviously,

00:26:01.120 the mission is critical, right? Get the job done. And however you're going to handle that,

00:26:05.080 whether that's bringing somebody on to help or you doing it yourself or delegating or not doing it

00:26:08.780 all, just getting the job done and progress moving forward. Exactly. And now we get to decide who is

00:26:13.540 going to do it and what's the best use of our three resources, people, time, and money. You only have

00:26:17.640 those three resources. My wife, Kim is amazing at this stuff. She's so good at actually having an idea and

00:26:23.820 starting the idea and delegating to people. It's extraordinary. I learned so much from watching her on her

00:26:28.360 ability to do this. It's amazing. Whereas I get stuck in the radical individualist that I'll work

00:26:34.300 hard and I'll work hard and I'll work hard. I tend to burn out faster. She tends to get more stuff done 0.99

00:26:39.400 because she can delegate quicker. Now you have to watch the resources, right? How much do you want

00:26:43.440 to spend on certain things and what things do you want to be doing? But her ability to delegate is

00:26:47.940 amazing to watch. So if you can bring that into the business world, we need to get stuff done,

00:26:52.060 but not necessarily us doing it. Yeah. Because if you delegate everything too soon,

00:26:56.360 yes, you've given yourself the resource of time, but it may have come at the expense of people and

00:27:00.860 or money. Or working on the wrong stuff. Just because we're working on it doesn't mean it's

00:27:05.880 the right stuff right now. Maybe it's stuff we should have done a year from now. If you think

00:27:09.780 about building the home for a second, imagine the guy who gets all excited. Hey, I just installed all

00:27:14.340 the cabinets and put the wolf stove in. The guy's like, dude, we haven't even done the electrical yet

00:27:17.920 or we haven't got the floors done. I'm glad you have the cabinets hung, but we haven't got the floors put in.

00:27:22.760 Which is frustrating because my father-in-law and his sons are in commercial construction and I

00:27:28.220 watch the level of frustration when they do heating and air, they do some plumbing. But when the finished

00:27:33.260 guys or the electrical guys come ahead of them, not only do they have to rip out all the electrical

00:27:37.740 and cut wires and do everything else to do their job. So that's taking extra time and money. So it's

00:27:41.980 not just the cost of doing it in the first place. It's doubling or tripling that because you have to

00:27:45.920 do it again. So all of those are the business lessons that small entrepreneurs need to realize.

00:27:50.940 And that's when I think it is the person who's strong with the ADD because they see everything

00:27:58.480 versus the guy who's just such a good cabinet installer. That's like, install the cabinets,

00:28:02.700 install the cabinets, install the cabinets. Like, dude, we're not ready for cabinets. Don't

00:28:05.800 install the cabinets. And you have to-

00:28:08.320 We are going to appreciate you when we get to that point. We're not there yet.

00:28:11.220 Right. So that's where the classic, someone who's very, very strong with the intention deficit

00:28:15.360 superpower, right? Maybe it's ADS, is better than the person who doesn't see everything because

00:28:21.520 they're a little bit more aware. This art and skill and maybe even science of delegation,

00:28:25.820 is this a natural trait? Is this like the nurture versus nature thing? Or is this a skill that can be

00:28:30.860 developed? I think it's a little bit of a trait. I'm going to say it in the right way, but

00:28:34.440 you have to be inherently a little bit lazy. And I say this with huge respect because again,

00:28:39.940 like my wife that I just talked about being good at delegating, I don't want her to think

00:28:42.440 that I think she's lazy. No, I think we get it. Yeah. I think we understand.

00:28:45.060 Yeah. I have another business friend of mine who started his company 3,000 miles from where he

00:28:49.340 lives because he didn't want to have to go into the office and he wanted to have to be able to

00:28:52.880 delegate. So I think if you're inherently a little bit lazy, you don't want to work that many hours,

00:28:57.820 you don't want to work that hard, you will start to delegate. And you realize that, you know what,

00:29:02.480 my time is better spent on bigger impact things. I get paid $30,000 to do a speaking event. My time is

00:29:09.240 better spent standing on stage than it is doing $20 an hour tasks. So the more $20 an hour tasks

00:29:14.920 I can delegate to free up time to find speaking events, right? Or find someone who can find

00:29:19.540 speaking events. That's better use of my time. I really like this notion of laziness and I've

00:29:23.940 certainly experienced it. I mean, within my own business and family and life, for example,

00:29:28.980 you know, there's, there's, here's my deal. I don't want to work so much so that I can't enjoy

00:29:34.580 time with my family. So my goal is not to be busy. My goal is to not be busy and yet produce

00:29:39.580 better results than I was in the past. And we tend to do better with that in our personal

00:29:44.740 lives. We tend to hire the cleaner or the person to do laundry or the person to cut our grass.

00:29:50.240 Then you can take to the next level. What about the person to change all the light bulbs,

00:29:53.660 to wash your car and to get your car filled up with gas? Like, why are we spending any of that time,

00:29:57.660 right? If you start delegating all that, now how about in the business world? How about someone to

00:30:01.380 check all of my emails and reply to 75% of my emails for me, to book all my appointments, to

00:30:06.420 concierge everything, to book my hotels and book my flights? Like you get all these $20 an hour tasks

00:30:11.280 off your plate to either free up time or to give you a life or to de-stress yourself so that you can

00:30:17.280 work in that maximum zone. And the way that you protect yourself with the bipolar, with the high

00:30:22.180 mania and the low stress depression is I want to work when I've got the most energy and I can't

00:30:26.960 have that good energy if I'm exhausted from the rest of my business life or personal life.

00:30:30.760 Yeah. Interesting.

00:30:32.360 I've struggled with that a lot. Like I have struggled. I'm doing a ton of personal growth

00:30:36.260 right now related to my stress level, my anxiety level, my worry level, my workaholic stuff,

00:30:41.700 because it's been impacting everything in my personal life and my business life.

00:30:45.560 Yeah. I mean, I'm going through the same types of experiences and growing pains. And now we're

00:30:50.640 trying to scale order of man and everything else and trying to figure out, is this the right time to

00:30:54.380 bring somebody on? Should I not? What resources do I have? At what expense does this come? And so,

00:30:58.680 man, I'm right there with you. I know a lot of guys listening probably are as well.

00:31:02.240 You had talked about Miracle Morning. We here at Order of Man are a fan of Hal Elrod. He's been on

00:31:06.780 the show before. And I know you came out with a book. I think it was what, about six months ago

00:31:09.960 or so. Is that right?

00:31:11.140 Yeah. It's about six months ago. Hal and I co-authored the Miracle Morning for Entrepreneurs

00:31:14.980 together.

00:31:15.280 Yeah. I mean, one of the things that sounds like you were talking about is working in

00:31:18.860 some sort of a vivid vision into maybe the Miracle Morning with what you're doing in the morning. Or

00:31:23.100 can you walk me through how that would differ for an entrepreneur versus somebody else?

00:31:28.660 Hal actually talks about the savers and the morning habits. And then what I talked about

00:31:32.460 was almost the rest of the day for the entrepreneur. A lot of the reading. So when Hal talks about the

00:31:37.300 reading in the morning that you want to be doing, what I want them to be reading is their vivid vision.

00:31:42.500 Imagine if you had a vivid vision for your company that you reread every single day. Imagine if you had

00:31:48.020 all of your employees read it every single month. So everyone knew where we were going,

00:31:51.440 but they were focused on today. You talked about that earlier that, you know, I have a vision,

00:31:55.440 but then I kind of put it away after a while. Well, imagine if you read it every single day.

00:31:59.520 If you took five minutes to read the four-page vision for your company. Powerful stuff when

00:32:04.820 you constantly are thinking about the future because it starts becoming your filter for every

00:32:08.300 decision. I also talk about the principles of focus and just really working and focusing on the

00:32:13.080 right things. Focusing your time, focusing your energy, your efforts, and getting rid of a lot of

00:32:17.680 the stuff that's on our plate. So I spend a lot of time in the book talking about that.

00:32:20.640 And then the third area I talk about is hiring the second-in-command. And at some point when

00:32:25.760 your business gets to be a certain scale, you really want to hire that yin and yang, 1.00

00:32:29.760 that second person. And you don't necessarily even have to give them equity, but it's a person

00:32:32.760 who can literally take all the stuff off your plate that you might be excellent at, but drain

00:32:36.860 you of your energy so that you're only working on stuff that is high energy and high expertise for

00:32:41.780 you. This is really good stuff because I actually just brought on that position within our organization.

00:32:46.760 And I will admit it was stressful at first for the first 60, 90 days, very stressful

00:32:50.880 trying to unload my plate with the things that I shouldn't be doing and focus on the things I

00:32:55.420 should. But these last 60 days or so, 30, 60 days have been very liberating for me knowing that I no

00:33:01.700 longer have to do any of this stuff that frankly I didn't enjoy in the first place.

00:33:05.600 Exactly. Yeah. And once you start releasing yourself of that, it can get pretty powerful.

00:33:09.360 Yeah. One of the things that I know that you focus on quite a bit is the notion of

00:33:15.080 meetings. And of course, there's the adage that meetings suck and nobody wants to participate in

00:33:19.240 meetings. And certainly when I have discussions with my team, at times it can be a miserable 0.89

00:33:23.460 process, not only for me, but them as well, I'm sure. Can you give me some tips and ideas on how

00:33:28.660 us as entrepreneurs can maybe more efficiently or better run the meetings that I feel like are

00:33:34.940 probably pretty important to have? That was my second book was meetings suck. And the reason I 0.97

00:33:39.180 wrote it, I was coaching a CEO one day and he was saying, you know, our meetings suck and my

00:33:42.580 employees are complaining about meetings. And I said, well, how much training have we ever given

00:33:46.100 your employees? Have they had at least an hour's training on how to run meetings, how to participate

00:33:50.540 and attend meetings and on what meetings to run? He goes, nope, almost none of them. I said,

00:33:54.520 how about your leadership team? Have they ever been trained on how to run meetings or what meetings

00:33:57.760 to run? He goes, yeah, I don't think so. I'm like, well, then of course your meetings suck.

00:34:01.220 You have no training. Like it's like sending a kid off the little league baseball. 0.99

00:34:04.840 Without knowing how to catch a ball and throw a ball and hold the bat, they're going to come 0.86

00:34:08.540 back from their first few practices saying, dad, you know, baseball sucks. Well, no, it only sucks 0.98

00:34:12.600 because you don't know the basics. Right. So I wrote meetings suck and broke it into really three 0.93

00:34:16.640 sections. The first is how to run meetings. The second is how to attend and participate meetings. 0.96

00:34:22.560 And then the third is exactly what meetings to run to build a highly growth focused and strong

00:34:27.120 culture company. So it's really written for all employees at all companies to read. Give you some of

00:34:32.240 the basics. Every meeting has to have a clear purpose. Just the one sentence. Why are we here?

00:34:37.400 Every meeting can have a maximum of three outcomes. And what are the three main things we're going to

00:34:41.000 get done? And if it's more than three, book a different meeting. Try to limit the number of

00:34:45.700 people you invite to a meeting. And we have to really get better at the whole kumbaya group hug of

00:34:50.480 inviting everyone. The reality is most people don't want to be at the meeting anyway. They'd rather be

00:34:54.880 back at their desk, either doing their work or getting caught up.

00:34:57.240 Well, in my experience, sometimes that even bogs down the system in producing results for the

00:35:01.620 outcomes we're talking about.

00:35:03.000 Exactly. So what you want to do is invite the core people to the meeting that you need to have at the

00:35:08.260 meeting that will be highly engaged at the meeting and let everybody else work on their work and get

00:35:12.880 better at saying, no, it's not like I don't like you. I love you out, but I just want you to work on

00:35:16.600 these projects instead of coming to this meeting that I don't think you're going to be able to input

00:35:19.320 on. Is it from there just the idea of delegating and allowing those managers or participants of

00:35:24.380 the meeting to disseminate that information? Because it sounds like chain of command type

00:35:27.500 stuff here.

00:35:28.220 It's chain of command. It's also when you roll out the meeting to people with the purpose,

00:35:31.720 outcome and agenda, what are we covering and what order are we covering it and how many minutes are

00:35:35.060 we going to spend on each agenda item? I want employees to say, you know what? I saw the outcome

00:35:39.120 and agenda and purpose. I don't really think I need to be there. I'm going to opt out and go,

00:35:42.740 fuck yeah, that's awesome. Like I'd rather have you opt out than show up and not really be 0.99

00:35:47.060 and highly engaged. You can save probably 12 to 20% of your company payroll just by running

00:35:53.160 highly effective meetings and by having the right people showing up and running them in the right

00:35:56.580 way. Interesting. I think you got through three of them. So, and I think I cut you off there.

00:36:00.880 Sure. No agenda, no attenda, right? If I'm not going to, if I'm going to request someone to show up

00:36:04.500 for a meeting and by the way, a meeting is anytime you have two or more people showing up for a phone

00:36:08.120 call, video call or an in-person meeting. So two or more people. If I don't say what we're covering

00:36:12.580 and how many minutes we're covering it and what we're covering in what order,

00:36:15.420 why would I say yes to attend? So just allow people to say, I'm not sure if I'm coming until

00:36:20.240 you show me what the agenda is. Every meeting has to start exactly on time. And we really have to

00:36:25.800 stop this whole, like, sorry, I'm late. Sorry, I'm late actually means F you. I'm selfish. I'm

00:36:30.400 disrespectful. My time's more valuable. Right. You would never show up for an Olympic swim race

00:36:34.720 if you were a swimmer and come running out onto the pool deck at eight o'clock for the eight o'clock

00:36:39.160 gun and go, Oh, sorry, I'm late. Like, no, you'd be there. Now I'm here. We can begin now.

00:36:43.040 Right. So if you're not five minutes early, you're late. And this is a saying that I learned

00:36:47.140 from my father-in-law. And the whole point is to show up at the meeting, have your head checked,

00:36:51.740 put the phone down at the door on a table by the door. You check your phone. If you can't leave

00:36:55.740 your phone at the door for a half hour to be at a half hour meeting, don't come to the meeting.

00:36:59.500 I want you fully focused on the meeting. When you go back out of the meeting room,

00:37:02.880 you can pick up your phone and do your work again. And then every meeting has to stop five minutes

00:37:07.320 prior to the scheduled ending time. That's what allows people to show up on time for things. So if

00:37:12.140 we're on a call from 10 o'clock till 11, we finish at 1055. That allows us to go down the hall,

00:37:18.060 talk to our assistant, go to the bathroom, get a cup of coffee, sit down at our desk and start

00:37:21.660 exactly on time. I like that. I like that.

00:37:24.120 Those are some of the core basics. And that doesn't require a lot of change.

00:37:26.700 It just requires you at the start of the meeting saying, Hey, just a reminder,

00:37:29.280 we finished five minutes early so we can show up on time for everything.

00:37:31.820 Your customers will love that. Your suppliers will love that. And your employees will be finally going,

00:37:35.540 thank you.

00:37:36.540 Yeah. It just sounds like putting a little structure behind what it is you're trying to accomplish.

00:37:39.940 I can see how I would be incorporating this this week. In fact, because I've got a couple of

00:37:43.860 business meetings that I need to conduct and I really like this and we'll be implementing this for

00:37:47.840 sure. And I teach my employees and my suppliers and my customers that if you say, sorry, I'm late,

00:37:53.720 what it really means is F you. I'm disrespectful. My kids don't even say it anymore. They don't even

00:37:58.100 say like, sorry about something because they realize like, Oh, sorry, I didn't clean the kitchen. 1.00

00:38:01.460 No, it means you're being an asshole because you knew you were supposed to do it. So start respecting me. 0.99

00:38:06.220 Right. And clean the kitchen, get it done. Stop saying sorry, correct the behavior.

00:38:09.320 Exactly. So the behavior is, but the only way people can show up on time is to finish the

00:38:14.600 meeting before five minutes early. Otherwise you can't, if we're on from 10 till 11 and we finish

00:38:19.960 right to 11, my 11 o'clock phone call, I'm now late for or my 11 o'clock meeting. I'm now late for

00:38:25.620 it. You can't finish something at the same time as starting something else. It's impossible.

00:38:29.220 This is just a level of mutual respect between you and potentially employees.

00:38:33.100 It's mutual respect and it's also a system. So I try to put a system in place instead of blaming

00:38:37.180 the people, people don't fail systems fail. That's Michael Gerber ism. But the idea is how

00:38:41.520 do you put a system in place to allow everyone to show up on time? Well, the system is you finish

00:38:46.300 everything five minutes early, easy. And like it works in every single company.

00:38:51.180 Yeah. I mean, this makes so much sense. Well, Cameron, I know you'd go on all day and we could

00:38:54.860 talk about this all day and there's certainly value to this. I want the guys to be able to connect

00:38:58.460 with you and get a little bit more information. So I'm going to give you a chance to do that.

00:39:01.600 Before we get into that, I do want to ask you the question that I presented a little bit

00:39:05.840 earlier. And that question is, what does it mean to be a man?

00:39:08.960 Yeah, that it's funny. You said that at the beginning. I'm like, wow,

00:39:11.620 I'm struggling with this one right now. And I'm struggling with it possibly because of the age

00:39:16.520 I am. I'm going to be 52 next month. And I was raised in an era where men were tough and held

00:39:22.080 their emotions and they were blue jobs and pink jobs and men worked and women were at home.

00:39:27.520 I grew up with a mother who raised me and did the baking and made our clothes and cut our hair.

00:39:32.140 And she was a homemaker. But now I'm married to a woman who is industrious and entrepreneurial and 0.65

00:39:38.640 sexy and smart and fun. And she does some of the blue jobs. In fact, she does a lot of the blue 1.00

00:39:42.620 jobs around the house. And I kind of like doing some of the pink jobs around the house and I'm

00:39:46.380 more in touch with my emotions. So I think what it means to be a man now is really embracing

00:39:50.280 the full spectrum, right? And embracing all aspects of our sexuality, our sensuality, our brain,

00:39:56.180 our being in touch with others, being in touch with ourselves. It's a little more complex than it

00:40:00.400 used to be. Yeah, I agree. Certainly. And I know it's complex because we've got a hundred and

00:40:04.900 I think 40 men at this point all give us a very different answer, but I appreciate each and every

00:40:10.180 one of them. I'm sitting looking at a picture of you and you've got this huge man beard on and then

00:40:14.020 you've got this gel in your hair. And my grandfather would be like, what's the dude doing with all that

00:40:17.560 gel? He looks like a girl, but then he'd be going, but his beard, he looks like a guy. So what it means

00:40:23.840 to be a man is changing in my world. Yeah, certainly agree. Well, Cameron, I appreciate you. I appreciate that

00:40:28.560 insight and certainly valuable as well. How do we connect with you, learn more about you,

00:40:32.260 pick up a copy of your books, just figure out what you're up to, if you will.

00:40:35.900 Sure. So all the books are available on Audible, iTunes, or Amazon. So Double Double,

00:40:40.480 Meeting Suck, and The Miracle Morning for Entrepreneurs are all available on those three

00:40:43.820 areas. And then my main website, CameronHerald.com is where they can see my speaking events or get more

00:40:48.760 of the resources. It's probably the best areas. Right on. We'll make sure we link that up so the guys can

00:40:53.040 find all of that stuff. And I got to tell you, I appreciate you. I was excited about this interview

00:40:56.500 anyways, in this conversation we were going to have, but there's some information in here that

00:41:01.000 I'm actually going to apply this week. So this has been helpful for the guys, I'm sure. And it's

00:41:05.120 certainly been helpful for me. So I want to thank you for who you are. Thank you for how you show up

00:41:08.980 and let you know. I appreciate your time. Thanks, Ryan. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

00:41:13.580 Gentlemen, Mr. Cameron Herald. I hope that you're walking away from this one with as much as I am. I took a ton

00:41:18.620 of notes and I know I'm going to be implementing a ton of this stuff into my own two businesses. If you enjoyed

00:41:24.120 what Cameron and I had to share today, please let us know on Instagram or Twitter or Facebook,

00:41:28.700 wherever you are. I really enjoy the feedback that I get from you guys. And it helps me put

00:41:33.180 together a podcast that you enjoy and gain a lot of value from. Remember, as we wind things down

00:41:38.440 today, we have our meetup slash book launch party in Nashville, January 26th and 27th, 2018.

00:41:44.860 You can get registered at order of man.com slash Nashville. And also make sure you take a look at the

00:41:50.960 iron council where you're a band with other men who are in the same battle as you are.

00:41:55.120 You can do that at order of man.com slash iron council. I will look forward to talking with

00:41:59.640 you on Friday for our Friday field notes, but until then take action and become the man you are meant

00:42:04.600 to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

00:42:11.600 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

00:42:20.960 Thank you.

00:42:22.960 Thank you.

Order of Man - December 05, 2017

142： Developing, Operating, and Expanding a Business ｜ Cameron Herald

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