Order of Man - 143： The Appearance of Power ｜ Tanner Guzy

00:00:00.000 Every time I bring up a conversation about style as it relates to masculinity, I'm met with

00:00:04.860 hesitation because quote-unquote real men don't care about what they wear. While that sounds good

00:00:10.840 to say, it just isn't true. If it were, we'd all walk around naked or in a baggy t-shirt and

00:00:15.800 sweatpants everywhere we go. Besides, your style is a powerful tool in building influence,

00:00:21.400 gaining confidence, and creating opportunities for yourself. My guest today is my good friend

00:00:26.280 Tanner Guzzi with Masculine Style. I have learned more from him about what I wear, what it says

00:00:31.000 about me, and how it's perceived by others in the last couple of years than I have the rest of my

00:00:36.180 life. And while it's hard to quantify the results dressing well produces, there's no doubt there's

00:00:42.260 a connection between what I look like and my income, confidence, and influence. You're a man

00:00:47.940 of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path. When

00:00:53.340 life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not easily

00:00:58.360 deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This

00:01:05.520 is who you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said and done, you can call

00:01:10.580 yourself a man.

00:01:12.380 Men, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler, and I am the host and the founder of

00:01:16.520 this podcast, The Order of Man. Whether you are new to the show or you've been around for

00:01:21.260 years, you are listening to the show about becoming a better man. I know I'm biased, but

00:01:26.260 when I set out on this journey to become a better man almost three years ago, I would have never

00:01:32.680 imagined that it would have grown to what it is today. And it's a testament to the fact

00:01:36.860 that we as men want a place that hasn't been impacted by the rampant dismissal of men that

00:01:44.540 we see perpetuated by much of society today. The fact is that the world is starving, starving

00:01:50.100 for real men who step up as protectors and providers and leaders in their family, their

00:01:55.540 businesses, their communities, every area of life. And that is what we're all about

00:01:59.580 here. So each week we interview the world's most successful men on the home front, the

00:02:04.020 business front, the front lines, wherever that we're expected to show up. And we extract

00:02:08.880 their lessons, insights, and all of the information so you and I can replicate their results.

00:02:13.820 Now, before I get into the meat of today's show, I do want to let you know that we still

00:02:18.080 have some tickets available for our meetup. This is going to be held January 26th and 27th,

00:02:23.140 2018. It's coming up quickly. That's going to be held in Nashville. In addition to the

00:02:27.880 keynotes and the brotherhood and the camaraderie that comes with that. This is also a book launch

00:02:32.300 party and everyone who tends will get a signed copy of my new book, which is going to be released

00:02:37.880 February 1st. So do not wait to get your tickets. We are going to sell this thing out.

00:02:43.460 You can head to orderofman.com slash Nashville again, orderofman.com slash Nashville. Gentlemen,

00:02:49.800 my guest today again is my friend Tanner Guzzi. Tanner and I met years ago. In fact, he was the

00:02:56.180 second guest that I ever had on this show. I used to balk at the idea of dressing well,

00:03:01.760 because I thought it was more about what's inside a man than what he's wearing. And while of course

00:03:06.400 that's true and there's validity to that, our style says a lot about who we are. Tanner is a deep

00:03:12.660 thinker, which I certainly appreciate. And he goes well beyond how to wear a suit and what shoes go

00:03:18.800 best with what pants. He delves deep into the why and the psychology of what we wear and how it

00:03:24.520 produces results in our lives. And that's what we're all about here, producing results. And if I can

00:03:30.060 take just one thing about what I wear and improve that, and it's going to help me in my life, you can

00:03:35.680 bet I'm going to do it. Tanner is going to show us how. Tanner, what is up, man? Glad you're back on the

00:03:41.440 show. Dude, Ryan, so good to be back on here with you. I was actually looking at this last night

00:03:45.660 because I knew we were going to have this conversation. Do you know what number episode

00:03:48.640 that you were first on? Cause this is a repeat visit for you. Right. Was I number two? I think

00:03:53.880 you were number three. Number three. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. It is crazy. It's been almost two

00:03:59.700 and a half years since we had a followup conversation now. Well, and obviously all of your success is

00:04:04.140 attributable to that one conversation that you and I had in episode three. So without that,

00:04:08.440 I just don't think we would be where we are today. Well, we've obviously built a friendship

00:04:13.360 over the past couple of years or so, almost three years now. And I've got to tell you,

00:04:16.840 I've learned more about you or from you, I guess I should say about style and how to incorporate this

00:04:23.180 in your life than I've ever learned in my entire life about what it says about the things that we

00:04:29.000 wear. So I'm really interested and excited to have this conversation. I appreciate it. And I,

00:04:33.520 yeah, I'm just, I'm excited to talk about this with you, your insights on the relationships

00:04:37.620 between what it is that makes men, men. It's going to be fun to talk about how style plugs into all

00:04:42.960 that. Well, it's really interesting because when you talk about men being men, I think the last thing

00:04:47.660 on a lot of men's mind and more specifically, probably our audience's mind is this notion of

00:04:53.000 dressing better. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, most guys that would be within the very bottom tier of how

00:04:59.000 you would define a man who's either a good man or being good at being a man is what he wears.

00:05:03.900 Why do you think that's the case? Cause I think about this, even if I were to rewind,

00:05:08.040 you know, five years or so ago, when I think about dressing better, I'm looking at a picture

00:05:12.300 of you on your Skype profile right now, and you've got the suit and the tie and you look the part,

00:05:16.740 but that's not necessarily what it means to dress better. Although I think a lot of men probably

00:05:20.220 think that's what it means. Yeah. And I think that's one of the big reasons why there's this

00:05:24.940 disconnect. I think part of it is that we get into this idea of a suit and a tie is the

00:05:30.820 only way to dress well, or it's the only way to have style. Therefore, if I don't fit within that

00:05:38.780 particular mold, then style is irrelevant. And there are plenty of guys who are masculine men

00:05:43.640 who don't fit into the suit mold. Therefore there's no causal relationship or even a correlation

00:05:49.480 between the two. So it shouldn't matter. Where did that come from then? Because there's no denying

00:05:53.980 the fact that men believe that. Where did that notion come from?

00:05:56.500 I would argue that that's attributed to two things. The first one was the idea of the cultural

00:06:01.700 revolution that happened with the baby boomer generation. Because prior to that, the majority 0.91

00:06:06.920 of men within Western civilization, and especially within the United States, whether you were a blue

00:06:11.140 collar worker or white collar, or you were a movie star or a politician or anything else, you wore suits.

00:06:16.760 It was just the uniform of men is that they wore suits. And yes, they would be made of different 0.80

00:06:21.120 materials or they would be cut differently based on the decades or styles or the environments in which

00:06:25.560 you worked or things like that. But it was a largely homogenous uniform. And then when this cultural

00:06:31.240 revolution amongst the baby boomers started to happen, and they rejected everything that had to 1.00

00:06:35.280 do with traditionalism, obviously, the uniform of traditionalism was one of the first things that

00:06:40.380 went out the door. Now you couple that with everything that's happened within the United States

00:06:45.080 and Western culture since then, where we're no longer a homogenous culture, but we really are so

00:06:50.600 diverse. And there's so many different ways that value is measured and status is measured and all

00:06:56.120 these different things about how you fit in with the world are determined. And so even if it wasn't

00:07:01.080 this rejection of suiting as far as we don't like tradition, but just this idea of, you know, that's

00:07:06.740 not appropriate in so many different cultures, or it's not how status or achievement or mastery or

00:07:11.640 anything else is actually expressed anymore. You know, you look at like the tech industry, if you live

00:07:16.460 in the San Francisco Bay Area, a suit does not signal that you're successful, it's actually kind

00:07:22.220 of the anti uniform for the guys who are successful there. And so you've got the overarching idea of

00:07:27.660 rebellion, plus the diversification of different societies. And all of a sudden, the suit doesn't

00:07:32.580 mean what it used to. So there's no reason to think of it as the standard uniform of masculinity.

00:07:37.860 How do these trends get established? Because you're talking about Silicon Valley, and the trend is

00:07:41.920 no longer the suit. And the fact that we've gone away when it comes to baby boomers from that 1.00

00:07:46.540 traditional suit and tie type look, how do these trends get established? Because I've seen some

00:07:53.020 people wear some wild stuff that just doesn't stick. And I've seen other things like come into fashion

00:07:57.900 and out of fashion into style out of style, how does it actually stick? So this is one of the things

00:08:02.500 that actually cover in the book that I think is really interesting to think about. Because a lot of

00:08:07.660 times, especially when you talk to guys who are into style, and they're trying to kind of start

00:08:11.620 new trends, or they're following new trends, they will give this idea that as long as you're

00:08:16.440 confident, you can wear whatever you want. And that's very kind of common within the style community.

00:08:21.700 But it doesn't work like that. Because you can confidently show up to work one day at a bank

00:08:26.700 wearing a pink gorilla suit. And it doesn't matter how confident you are, it's going to have very big

00:08:32.040 negative effects on your ability to do your job to be taken seriously by your co workers, your clients,

00:08:36.560 even your own self perception. Confidence is irrelevant when it comes to that regard.

00:08:40.240 And so when it comes to trends, and who they're started by, and how they take on,

00:08:45.060 what it really is, is it's a balance of a man's status within a particular culture or subculture,

00:08:51.960 and how he's trying to distinguish himself. And so it's men who are of high status,

00:08:56.740 who will use their appearance as a way to separate themselves from everybody else who's beneath them.

00:09:01.720 And then the people who are beneath them will start to adapt to recognize that all these guys are

00:09:06.260 dressing differently. I want to be like these guys who are higher up. So I will dress like they do.

00:09:11.180 And then you eventually have the laggers on who at first don't care at all, but then they finally 1.00

00:09:15.760 start to recognize it. And then at this point, everybody's dressing the same way. So then the

00:09:20.080 top status guys who now have to distinguish themselves another way, will subconsciously start

00:09:25.820 a new trend or start dressing in a way that's different as a way to separate themselves from

00:09:29.440 everybody else below them.

00:09:30.460 And they do it, I'm sure in a set of parameters, right? Because you talk about the pink gorilla 0.99

00:09:34.820 suit, for example, there's no way that I'm going to go out in front of my audience wearing a pink

00:09:38.980 gorilla suit, but I might do something else. And I can't even think of what that is right offhand.

00:09:43.600 Well, the beard, I mean, the beard's a great example.

00:09:45.440 It's a perfect example where I do it within a expected set of parameters. And yet it's different

00:09:52.640 enough that it is distinguishing, right? Because if you think about it this way, let's take the

00:09:56.840 beard, for example. Your beard is something that is very unique and it's part of how you identify

00:10:02.720 yourself. But it's also not so out there that other men who subscribe to Order of Man, who are

00:10:08.080 part of the Iron Council or anything else, it's not so unique that if they were to grow out a beard like

00:10:12.600 yours, then they would be very obvious Ryan Mickler copycats. Whereas if you were somebody who was

00:10:18.780 more interested in being an iconoclast as opposed to a leader, the two references I use for this in the

00:10:24.720 book are Conor McGregor and Dennis Rodman. These guys have no interest in having people actually

00:10:29.600 follow them, but they are relatively high status. Obviously, Conor McGregor is about as high status

00:10:34.680 as it gets in the UFC right now. And so he's dressing in a way that's so different that if

00:10:40.040 people were to try and emulate his style, it would actually be a signal of their low status because

00:10:45.320 it shows that they're directly copying him as opposed to having any plausible deniability where

00:10:50.260 it's like, oh no, he's got a beard. I've got a beard. We're beard buddies. We're cool like that.

00:10:53.520 It just happens to be the case, right? As opposed to very intentional about that.

00:10:57.920 Right. It's one of those things that we don't talk about it. It's totally gouged to talk about

00:11:02.560 this directly and overtly. It's something that has to be navigated subtly and subconsciously and

00:11:07.640 there needs to be plausible deniability. And so that's where you get guys who will throw bombs and

00:11:12.180 it's like, okay, if you're going to dress like me, it's very obvious that you're copying me and

00:11:15.940 therefore acknowledging that I'm higher status than you are.

00:11:19.000 What is the reasoning behind that? Because I see what in your examples, Dennis Rodman,

00:11:23.600 Conor McGregor, and I think you guys look absolutely ridiculous and there's no practicality to what

00:11:27.880 you're wearing, but that just might be my personality too.

00:11:30.520 Right. And really, if you think about it, it's this idea of, are they trying to be leaders or are

00:11:35.400 they trying to be rebels and iconoclasts that totally separate themselves from everybody else?

00:11:40.140 Because if your goal is to piss off everybody else around you and make sure that you are recognized

00:11:47.040 as the one outlier, then there's huge benefits to dressing in a way that's a complete outlier.

00:11:53.500 But in order to have that actually work to your advantage, you have to have the status or the

00:11:57.800 skill set or the mastery or anything else to actually back up the attention that you're getting.

00:12:02.380 Because some brand new guy to the NBA or to the UFC who can't actually fight or play ball,

00:12:09.140 who dresses like that, then he's just called out as a poser. But these guys who are good enough that

00:12:14.380 they can distinguish themselves, then it actually works to their advantage.

00:12:18.500 And I think also there's the intentionality and the thought process about it. I mean,

00:12:22.320 if you look at what we're trying to do, order of man, you hear order, you think society,

00:12:25.760 brotherhood, organization, which is inclusive, right?

00:12:28.320 Right. So my goal is not to alienate or put myself above or anywhere else, but where the tribe

00:12:33.920 is. And so I feel like as the leader, I guess you'd say of the organization, like I still want

00:12:41.120 to be relatable to everybody else.

00:12:44.320 100%. If you were to go back to just doing financial planning, which is what you were doing

00:12:48.140 before order of man, and you were to have the long beard where you were within your practice and

00:12:52.640 where you were within the overall financial planning tribe or community, it's not like all of a sudden

00:12:57.800 I can show up to a financial planning practice in Des Moines and these guys have long Ryan

00:13:02.760 Mickler beards, right? Because you weren't high status within that particular tribe or organization,

00:13:08.200 but you can very much do that as the leader of the order of man subculture and have men start to

00:13:15.280 identify with that and start to adopt similar aesthetics because you've established yourself as

00:13:20.360 a leader and your aesthetic is not so far removed from what they would associate with the order of man

00:13:26.420 that they will be accused of being flagrant copycats by embracing what your style is.

00:13:31.560 Well, let me give you the alternative to this because I actually had four appointments yesterday

00:13:36.280 specifically for my financial planning practice, which is few and far between. I just don't do that

00:13:40.660 many appointments now that I've been so busy with order of man and the iron council.

00:13:43.880 And I wore to those meetings exactly what I would wear on a day-to-day basis. I had my jeans on,

00:13:50.100 I had a flannel shirt on, I had my red wing boots on, of course my beard and everything else.

00:13:54.480 And yet I walked into the meeting with a sense of confidence that I don't think I possessed three

00:14:00.760 years ago. I wouldn't even bore that to a meeting, but you know what? It was kind of like the,

00:14:04.280 I don't care, this is who I am. And I think that confidence exude in the actual meeting,

00:14:09.100 although it wasn't expected as a traditional financial advisor uniform, if you will.

00:14:14.760 100%. And I think that that actually helps solidify the point rather than providing any

00:14:18.980 contrast to it because the idea of confidence and authenticity has to be partnered up with these

00:14:25.960 other factors that are coming into your style because you can completely 100% embrace the uniform

00:14:32.180 of a given tribe if you belong to it. But if you feel like, like if it actually negatively

00:14:37.260 affects or impacts your own internal presence, the way that you view yourself, the way that you fit in,

00:14:43.280 then that can largely negate a lot of the benefits that come from actually dressing in a way that you

00:14:48.300 fit in. And so again, you dressing the way that you do isn't impacting the overall aesthetic of the

00:14:54.800 financial planning community at large, but it does have a huge positive impact on your ability to be

00:15:01.140 professional and successful with your clients because it's authenticity partnered up with not being so

00:15:07.240 out of the norm. Again, not wearing the pink gorilla suit that you're completely typecasting yourself

00:15:11.940 as this weirdo.

00:15:13.360 You know, I think it's really interesting too, because the other thing that I think it has the

00:15:16.640 opportunity to do is create some sort of mystery or attraction or at least curiosity. Like who is

00:15:23.080 this bearded financial advisor and why does he think that he can dress like that when everybody

00:15:28.100 else dresses differently, which I think is a good thing.

00:15:30.960 100% I love that you brought that up. This is actually something I was talking about with my wife of

00:15:35.400 all people this morning. And it's the idea that we know what one dimensional characters on TV shows

00:15:40.900 and movies look like. And so many men in the world, the way that we dress is that we tell this story of

00:15:46.300 being a one dimensional character. I'm into guns and self defense. And so I dress like I'm tactical or

00:15:51.940 I'm into books and I'm into video games and comics. And so I dress like a nerd this way or anything else.

00:15:58.480 And we just tell these one dimensional stories, but interesting characters in television or any stories

00:16:03.300 or interesting men in real life, we have multiple dimensions to us. You may be somebody who's

00:16:08.200 physically capable and intellectually capable and financially capable, and you have all these

00:16:12.760 different things. And if you can create an aesthetic that actually tells that full story,

00:16:17.660 that's where good style comes from.

00:16:20.020 And I think there's also a level of duality. You know, I think about Jocko Willink, for example,

00:16:24.140 who is the warrior archetype. He dresses the part, he looks the part, his Instagram and Twitter

00:16:29.540 messages and posts are the part. And yet he's also somebody who has a degree in English and is very

00:16:35.480 well versed in history and knowledge and intellect in general.

00:16:40.840 Exactly. Exactly. Because you take those expectations of the dumb brute or the smart weakling

00:16:46.240 and he says, no, I'm screw that. I'm going to be all of it. And he combines it in a way that works.

00:16:51.540 Interesting. So let's talk about one of the things you talked about is confidence. And so

00:16:55.720 my question is, where does confidence come from? Is it the ability to pull something like this off?

00:17:01.680 Or is the way that we look a manifestation of the internal confidence we already have?

00:17:07.820 So confidence comes from accomplishing difficult things. You know, obviously that's not related to

00:17:12.560 style directly, but I think any confidence that a man attains is because you put yourself outside of

00:17:18.500 your comfort zone, you conquer whatever it is that you're trying to conquer, and therefore you recognize

00:17:23.880 that you're more capable than you initially thought you were. Right?

00:17:27.280 Sure. Yeah. No, this makes total sense. I mean, we talk about this all the time is just do hard

00:17:32.020 things. If you're not confident, just do the thing that you're confident about. But I guess the reason

00:17:35.600 that I asked that question is because we've all heard the term fake it till you make it.

00:17:39.260 Right. Does that even work?

00:17:40.940 Absolutely. So that's where this idea comes in. And it's fun because I was listening to our last

00:17:45.380 conversation in preparation for this, just to make sure that we don't, you know, go back and hit on the

00:17:49.600 points or anything else. And it was fun to realize that a lot of what you and I had talked about in

00:17:54.260 that first conversation has morphed into things that I'm better able to articulate now three years

00:17:59.020 later. And one of the things that we did discuss was this idea of balancing authenticity with

00:18:05.060 ambition. And that's where this idea of faking it until you make it really can come in because you

00:18:10.660 want to dress in a way that puts you a little bit out of your comfort zone. It puts you a little bit

00:18:16.160 higher status than what you actually are. It puts you in this position where you actually have to

00:18:20.340 change your behavior in order to accurately match up with what the story is that you're telling with

00:18:26.760 your clothing and your appearance. And then you actually change your behavior to match the story that

00:18:31.820 you're telling with your clothing and your appearance. Now, if you go too far away from that and you can't

00:18:36.620 actually deliver what it is you're promising, that's where the dissonance comes in. That's why there's a

00:18:41.720 problem. But if you can give yourself a little bit of a push by dressing in a way where you and the

00:18:47.660 people around you have higher expectations of yourself, that's where faking it till you make

00:18:51.800 it really can come in. It's interesting that I actually had, and we may have talked about this

00:18:56.160 in our first conversation. I know I've told somebody else about this. I had a baseball coach who every

00:19:01.280 single year we would get the best uniforms, the brand new uniforms, and we'd all have to buy them as

00:19:05.780 opposed to other schools that just provided them. And his philosophy and theory, and he always said

00:19:09.980 this is, if you look good, you play good. And I believe there was an element of truth to that.

00:19:14.840 We had the newest uniforms, the nicest uniforms. We always were the best dressed and looking team

00:19:19.540 on the field. And I think our level of play was elevated to some degree because of that approach.

00:19:26.200 Right. And then there's nothing to do with what anybody else thinks of you. It's how it affects

00:19:30.660 your own perception of yourself and not only what you're capable of, but what you're expected to do

00:19:35.980 as a result of putting different clothes on your body.

00:19:38.080 Let's talk about the term aesthetics, because this is a term that I know I've heard you say before,

00:19:42.980 and a lot of people in the style industry, if you will, will throw that word around.

00:19:47.100 I'm a little weary of the word itself, just because I believe that this goes so much deeper than

00:19:52.700 the way that we look and our appearance. And it's not all about how we look. I know there's a lot of

00:19:57.500 guys who are listening to this now that are probably rolling their eyes thinking,

00:20:00.540 it doesn't really matter what you look like. Being a man is way more than just how you look.

00:20:05.820 So help me understand where this aesthetic idea actually comes from. And is it valuable in the

00:20:11.280 conversation of being a better man?

00:20:13.140 Yeah. Well, and first of all, I would 100% agree with our proverbial guys who are rolling their eyes

00:20:17.780 and saying that, because one thing that I will never argue is that the way a man looks is the

00:20:22.500 most important, or even that it's a primary thing that we should be concerned about, because it's not.

00:20:27.180 The value of a man is created by much more than how we look, but it can be measured and

00:20:34.420 communicated by how we look. And that's something that is important, not only to ourselves, but also

00:20:39.840 to those around us. And I think one of the things that does make aesthetics so important

00:20:43.800 is the understanding. And this is where a lot of the disconnect comes from, because if you think

00:20:48.620 about fashion, or if you think about following trends, or even kind of what we were talking about

00:20:52.520 earlier, as far as, you know, recognizing where things are going within your tribe and trying to

00:20:56.840 signal high status and all that stuff, the thing that can be frustrating about that for a lot of

00:21:00.340 men is that it's all very external. It's all very much other men determining value, and therefore I

00:21:05.560 have to adapt in order to be able to follow it. And we don't want to do that if we don't have to do

00:21:10.680 that. Whereas true style, and that's where we're talking about this idea of balancing authenticity

00:21:14.940 with aspiration and being able to tell a story that's multidimensional, really good style comes from

00:21:20.240 knowing who you are and what your value is internally, and then discovering a way to be

00:21:25.580 able to express that externally. And not only so that other people can see that and make an accurate

00:21:30.860 assessment of who you are and what you bring to the table, but also so that you can see that and

00:21:35.760 have that reinforced in your head every time you look in the mirror, every time you catch a reflection

00:21:39.920 in an office building, every time you see a photo of yourself. If you see a guy who's got his act

00:21:44.400 together, who lives deliberately, who's able to make the world what he wants it to be, or at least make his

00:21:49.560 world what he wants it to be, as opposed to somebody who's passive or is a slob, or whose 0.53

00:21:54.480 main priority is getting through life in a way that's as comfortable as possible. Those are two

00:21:58.620 very different stories that you're telling yourself. And aesthetics has a huge impact on how we perceive

00:22:04.480 ourselves and therefore what we do with ourselves. And I think everybody wants to look good. I don't

00:22:10.480 think there's anybody else. And it's really funny. There's this trend, you know, it's like, I don't care

00:22:14.220 what I look like. And this doesn't mean who I am. But what's really interesting is I think the majority

00:22:18.340 of guys who would even say something like that, just by the notion of them saying that are actually

00:22:22.760 probably trying to illustrate or communicate that they don't care, which means that they're more

00:22:27.020 intentional about the way they look than they portray to be. Yeah, it's antipathy. And antipathy

00:22:31.600 requires more emotional investment than true indifference does. You know, love and hate are not opposites

00:22:39.580 of each other. Love and hate are actually very close to each other. It's when you don't care about

00:22:43.540 something at all. You know, that's the opposite of loving something. And most guys, if they would

00:22:48.180 say, I don't care what I look like, it's like, okay, well then put on a dress or put on the pink

00:22:52.020 gorilla suit or do something that's totally out there and tell me that you don't feel uncomfortable

00:22:56.180 dressing that way. And obviously they will. The guys who truly don't care, they would happily wear

00:23:01.060 that just as happily as they would wear a suit or anything else. And those kind of men are very few

00:23:05.320 and far between. Or they would make their decisions based solely on what is the most comfortable,

00:23:10.380 meaning they'd walk around naked or in boxers. Exactly. Yep. Yeah, this makes sense. Now the

00:23:16.300 title of your book is called the appearance of power. I'm really interested in this because when

00:23:19.860 I hear that title appearance of power, it's almost like I'm trying to be validated by being powerful

00:23:25.760 from some external source, like to appear powerful rather than to be powerful. Help me understand that.

00:23:31.240 Yeah. And that was very intentionally a play on words because once again, I acknowledge that

00:23:35.840 power does not come from appearance. You can look at con men who are very much not who they project

00:23:42.320 themselves to be. And one of the ways that they're so successful in getting their marks to believe them

00:23:46.600 and invest in them is by dressing the parts. And you can have people who dress and look like they're

00:23:52.160 great, successful men and they were 100% or not. And you can have people who dress and look like

00:23:57.960 they're bums and they actually are very successful and very involved fathers and good husbands and all these

00:24:02.280 other things. And so there's not a direct correlation, but we believe there is a direct

00:24:07.380 correlation because it does happen so often that those two are actually interconnected.

00:24:13.300 And so the title of the book came about from recognizing that if you start off with what

00:24:17.900 your own power is, you start off by defining what you are as a man, how masculinity is defined by you

00:24:23.980 and by the men and women who are important to you in your life, by your tribes, and you recognize

00:24:29.100 how that kind of power has been projected, then you can use that as a way to maximize your

00:24:36.560 relationships with other people, to maximize your own self-perception and to increase the amount of

00:24:41.380 success that you have in your life. And I think this is a huge component of influence as well. And I think

00:24:46.640 every man who's listening to this, whether they want to dress well or not, probably to some degree

00:24:51.160 believes in the notion of being influential in the lives of their family or community or employees or

00:24:56.860 employers, whatever it may be. Yeah, 100%. Because I mean, unless you're truly like a hermit,

00:25:03.340 most of us are tribal. We want to be around people who matter to us. And that doesn't mean that we want

00:25:08.620 to care what everybody's opinion of us is. But we do want to be around people who matter to us and honor

00:25:15.120 within that group of people, which is basically their opinion mattering to me and my opinion mattering

00:25:20.000 to them. That's a normal thing. That's a good thing. And one of the ways that that's measured

00:25:24.620 is through how we dress. I mean, you can take it to something as simple as if you go to your

00:25:31.140 favorite college football team's game and you're wearing the colors of the rival team,

00:25:36.280 you are being dishonorable and you're signaling that you don't actually belong to that tribe.

00:25:40.820 And you're going to be ostracized by the tribe as well.

00:25:43.200 100%.

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00:26:51.820 Gentlemen, if you want something different out of your life, you are going to have to do something

00:26:55.520 different. I want to challenge you today to step outside of your comfort zone and do something you

00:27:00.200 probably already know you should be doing anyways. And that is joining a band of brothers. Now you can do

00:27:05.920 it alone and take a lot of time and energy and resources building that thing up, or you can tap

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00:27:16.840 developing and fine tuning and honing the strategies and the resources inside this brotherhood to produce

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00:27:27.620 just your life in general, without a system for the way that you operate in your life. And more

00:27:31.820 specifically, a new system, a new system, you can expect to experience the same results you have

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00:27:47.000 more and joining us, head to order of man.com slash iron council, order of man.com slash iron council.

00:27:53.660 I hope to see you inside. Now let's get back to my conversation with Tanner.

00:27:57.580 What is the distinction between power and appeal? Because you talk about that and make that

00:28:04.500 distinction in the book itself. And I'm really curious as to how you describe and explain this.

00:28:09.440 So I think this is another thing that's really good as far as going back to one of the first

00:28:13.520 questions of why do most men kind of chape at the idea of caring about their appearance.

00:28:18.640 And that's because for most of us who are younger than the baby boom generation, the entirety of our

00:28:24.520 existence has been that caring about the way that you look is for women and not caring about the way

00:28:29.500 that you look is one of the ways that you can express your masculinity, right?

00:28:33.760 Sure. I think that's probably a pretty modern thought. Yeah, right. Yeah. Okay. So part of that

00:28:38.820 is because we have this idea that the only way to care about the way that you look is to try to be

00:28:44.200 more appealing. It's to be sexier. It's to be younger. It's to be trendier or more fashionable or more

00:28:50.140 youthful. And all of those things are very, very good if you're a woman and you're trying to maximize

00:28:55.800 your relationships with other people. But when it comes to being a man, youth is a liability over

00:29:01.620 trendiness and the instability that can be communicated through trendiness can be a liability

00:29:07.000 in experience and all these other things. Those are not core to masculinity. They're counter to it.

00:29:11.660 But if you can dress in a way that does communicate power or achieve status or respectability or

00:29:17.900 self-respect or longevity, then communicating that through your clothing, that's dressing in a way

00:29:23.300 that's powerful rather than appealing. And that's a huge benefit for most men.

00:29:27.580 So if I'm understanding you correctly, appearing to be powerful or actually being powerful is more of

00:29:33.040 a masculine, generally speaking, more of a masculine trait versus being appealing, which would be more

00:29:37.820 of a feminine trait. 100%. This does make sense because I see the value in being powerful. Men want to

00:29:44.900 find other men. And biologically, we've evolved and been programmed to operate this way, to be

00:29:50.080 protectors, providers, and presiders. And the men who are powerful are those things, generally speaking.

00:29:56.660 So I could see why men would want to be powerful as opposed to appeal to other people. It's really

00:30:01.120 interesting because I see a lot of men who take more of the appeal approach. And this is what I think

00:30:08.060 of when I hear the term peacocking, for example. It's to appeal, interestingly enough, to other

00:30:13.900 men, not necessarily to women. Yeah. Oh, yeah. 100%. Again, and that's another thing that's really

00:30:19.540 kind of funny about how we are as men, because a lot of times, and both men and women are guilty of

00:30:25.140 this. A lot of times we think that we dress for the opposite sex, but really what we do is we dress for

00:30:31.080 the same sex because that's where jockeying for status and position and utility, you know, 0.99

00:30:36.460 validation and everything else comes from. And then that's reinforced by how attractive we are to the

00:30:41.720 opposite sex. And that's the same thing with the validation from the same sex is a higher priority than

00:30:47.580 an attraction from the opposite sex. Yeah. And most guys don't want to admit that. Interesting. But I 0.58

00:30:52.300 really think that that's the case. And I mean, you take that on a very distilled level. Okay, take the

00:30:58.240 gym rats, for an example. When you look at what the majority of women actually respond to when it comes to 1.00

00:31:03.660 the build of a man, it's going to be something that's more along the lines of like Brad Pitt in

00:31:08.540 Troy or, you know, something like that. Or Ryan Mickler from Order of Man. Ryan Mickler from Order of

00:31:12.780 Man. That's obviously the aesthetic ideal right there. But then you get these guys in the gym who

00:31:16.740 are going for, you know, Arnold or they're going for as big and as built as they possibly can. And at

00:31:21.520 some point it becomes no longer that women are responding to it, but it's a way for them to measure and

00:31:27.520 determine how masterful they are and how strong they are, which are things that are more

00:31:32.800 validated by other men within their peer group than they are by the women within their peer group.

00:31:37.800 Interesting. Well, and I also think too, if you have, again, these are just generalities, right?

00:31:41.780 Of course. Yeah.

00:31:42.860 If you have a group of 200 men within an organization or a structure or a society or community or whatever

00:31:48.680 it may be, if there's a handful of men that rise to the top through the validation, if you will,

00:31:54.520 in lack of a better term, from the other men, I think women probably also notice that and can see

00:32:00.420 how the other men respect those five and that makes them attractive.

00:32:05.300 Right. Yep. Absolutely. And that's why you can get these different subcultures where

00:32:09.260 it may be something that to most of us, we just look at and go, those guys are weird. Like I don't

00:32:14.720 see the value in that. And that's why you can have very attractive women at Comic-Con or, you know,

00:32:20.920 Magic the Gathering tournaments or things like that. And they still latch onto the men within those

00:32:25.800 subcultures who can demonstrate the highest status amongst the other men within those subcultures.

00:32:32.120 Well, let's talk about how to do this. And I certainly don't want to come across as

00:32:35.940 we're gaming the system because I think when you do try to game the way that you look,

00:32:40.580 it comes across to what your point earlier is disingenuous and inauthentic. And I think people

00:32:46.140 can see right through that. What I might wear is going to be completely different than what you

00:32:49.920 might wear. And if we try to switch roles, I think both of us would probably look fairly ridiculous.

00:32:54.900 Agreed. Yeah.

00:32:56.100 So how do we begin to come up with a strategy for articulating who we believe ourselves to be and

00:33:02.200 what we want to be viewed and perceived as?

00:33:05.280 So I love that you use the word strategy because really that's what it comes down to.

00:33:09.340 When most men start to think about how they want to improve their style, they may look at,

00:33:14.900 okay, well, I don't like the way that I look now. So I'm going to maybe start wearing suits or I'm

00:33:19.080 going to go watch a YouTube video or I'm going to read a book or a blog or something else. And

00:33:22.960 the problem with most of these approaches that they get is they get a lot of information,

00:33:27.400 but most of the information is tactical. It's how to take a specific item or specific group of items

00:33:32.720 and wear them in a way that they work well with each other. But those tactics may be totally

00:33:37.480 inappropriate for a particular man and his situation in life and what he's trying to do.

00:33:42.780 For example, somebody who is 19 and he's in college and he's trying to find a girlfriend

00:33:47.100 should not be wearing the same clothes as a man who's 35 running his business and he's trying to 1.00

00:33:52.480 find new clients and he's an attorney. Very, very different goals. And so the first thing that

00:33:57.640 men really should do if they want to start improving their style, and what's so cool about

00:34:01.420 this is it's not gaming the system. It's just taking a proactive as opposed to a reactive approach

00:34:06.420 is if you figure out what your goals are, what it is that's missing in your life or that's just

00:34:11.780 incomplete in your life that you believe that improving your appearance can help contribute to

00:34:17.200 making those things better. And then from there, you break it down into these are my goals and here

00:34:21.920 are some different strategies. And I actually outlined six different primary strategies in the book

00:34:26.280 that help men in any situation and they've been applicable across different cultures and throughout

00:34:31.500 different points in history. And so you look at those different strategies and then you can

00:34:36.660 actually start to apply some tactics and see if those will work for you.

00:34:40.400 I'm really trying to think about my scenario because there's no doubt in my mind and I'm

00:34:44.420 sure dozens of others that I have improved my style over the past five years.

00:34:48.620 Right.

00:34:48.900 But I don't know how strategic I've actually been about it other than I like this, I don't

00:34:54.440 like that, I like the way this guy looks or those boots are cool or those jeans look good

00:34:58.640 and that shirt is right. I don't really know how strategic I've actually been in this process.

00:35:03.860 Yeah. And that's what's cool is it's one of those things for a lot of guys that can actually

00:35:07.120 be a hang up because you see so many men who are naturals who are able to just dress well

00:35:11.180 or dress authentically and are able to do it. So my question to you on that would be

00:35:16.040 what benefits do you think you would have had if you would have been able to do that in

00:35:20.880 a few months as opposed to over five years? And how much money do you think you would have

00:35:25.620 saved if you would have been able to do it that quickly and knowing what you were purchasing?

00:35:30.500 And lastly, do you think you've already arrived at the ultimate benefit of your appearance

00:35:35.300 or do you think that there's still more that you could improve on by taking a more strategic

00:35:39.180 and goal-oriented approach with it? I want to go to your question about

00:35:42.360 the money saved because there's definitely that, but then there's also the money that I've left on

00:35:46.220 the table as well. And I believe that the ability that I've had to improve my appearance,

00:35:52.040 maybe slower than I ought to, is a direct translation to potentially the income that I can earn as

00:35:57.500 well. Yeah, absolutely.

00:35:59.660 And I certainly haven't arrived. I think the way that we look is fluid, right? And it changes and

00:36:04.240 it evolves and it grows and it morphs. And I'm sure if I looked at the very first video that I did

00:36:07.840 when I started Order of Man, I'd probably ask myself, what the hell was I wearing?

00:36:12.120 In five years, I'll probably say the same thing about the video I did today, you know? So I do

00:36:16.440 believe it's always evolving. And I think the quicker that we can do this, the better off we'll

00:36:19.820 probably be.

00:36:20.440 That brings up another really good point because you're right. If your appearance isn't evolving

00:36:25.160 as you do, then either one, you haven't evolved as much as you thought you have, or two,

00:36:30.700 you're leaving opportunities on the table to further the benefits of that evolution. And so

00:36:35.860 you're missing things out. And as your life evolves over the next 5, 10, 20, 25 years,

00:36:41.380 do you want to continue to haphazardly try and get it right? Or do you want to develop a more

00:36:47.980 strategic goal-oriented approach so that you can always be maximizing the benefits that come from

00:36:53.320 having your aesthetic evolution match the evolution of all the much more important components of who you

00:36:59.140 are as a man?

00:37:00.080 Well, one of the things we always, always talk about is intentionality. And a lot of the times

00:37:03.780 we're talking about, you know, the way we plan our goals or the way that we eat or the way that we

00:37:07.640 work out or the way that we communicate with our spouses. But very rarely does it come from this

00:37:11.560 context of the way that we look and what we wear. But I think it's, it's a crucial part of it,

00:37:16.200 intentionality and being deliberate about the way that you show up.

00:37:19.080 Yep. Especially because it does communicate things to yourself, to your spouse, to your kids,

00:37:23.340 to your boss, to your clients, to everybody. And if you need to be intentional about the

00:37:28.380 language that you're using, the tone of your voice, your body language, how present you are

00:37:32.580 with these other components, you're just contradicting yourself. If you're not applying

00:37:37.080 that same intentionality to the clothing that you put on your body, especially because just like

00:37:41.260 speaking, you put on clothes every single day.

00:37:44.800 Right. Yeah, it is. You're in the thing, whether you want to be or not, you're doing it.

00:37:48.100 Exactly. Every single day. Yep.

00:37:50.700 Yeah. Good call. Well, for the sake of time, we don't have time to go through the strategies that you lay

00:37:55.100 out in the book. Although I have read the entire book. And in fact, I gave a little blurb slash

00:37:59.260 endorsement for the book. I think that highly of it and the work that you're doing. But there is one

00:38:03.620 that really stands out to me that I wanted to ask you about. And that is taste. I really wanted you

00:38:08.440 to break down this concept and idea of taste because that one was a little bit more difficult

00:38:12.620 for me to wrap my head around.

00:38:14.240 Okay. So taste in these six different strategies is the fourth one. So you've built upon other layers of

00:38:21.080 what works with your body, your different style archetypes, and then the tribes,

00:38:24.380 the expectations around you. And then taste is where it really starts to come together with

00:38:28.460 this idea of authenticity. Because if you're just wearing the clothing that's expected of you

00:38:35.000 within one particular group that you belong to, then you're nothing really more than just a drone.

00:38:41.600 And in some environments, in some situations, that can be a good thing. You think about the

00:38:45.740 military, for example, like there's no room for personal taste in uniform or even appropriate in

00:38:50.780 that situation.

00:38:51.240 It's totally inappropriate. That's detrimental to the goals of what you're trying to accomplish

00:38:55.800 within that tribe. Right?

00:38:58.060 Sure.

00:38:58.520 But most of us don't fit within that. And even when you're within what some people would consider

00:39:04.360 a more rigid hierarchy like a white collar business where, yeah, you're expected to wear

00:39:08.540 a shirt and tie or a suit every day, there's still room for personal taste as far as expressing

00:39:13.320 different things about what makes you you, how you add those second and third dimensions so that

00:39:18.360 you're not just a one dimensional character. Maybe you pull some aesthetic cues from other

00:39:23.580 tribes or other groups that you belong to. Maybe you're using that taste as ways to demonstrate

00:39:28.900 things like mastery or courage. Or maybe you're more interested in strength or in honor, you

00:39:35.520 know, communicating these kind of different masculine tactical virtues. And so taste is really

00:39:39.800 taking everything that you know about who you are and what value you bring to the world,

00:39:44.480 and then finding out a way that you can express that through your clothing. And one of the reasons

00:39:49.200 I think you struggled with that and why I think that that is so hard is because you can't just go out

00:39:54.160 and buy a shirt that says mastery. That doesn't communicate anything. It's so much more subtle and

00:40:00.560 subconscious and indirect and all of that. And that's where there definitely is a need for

00:40:05.580 experimentation and giving yourself permission to make mistakes and try things and figure out where

00:40:10.500 the lines and the boundaries are. But by learning how to combine what it is that makes you a good

00:40:16.220 man internally, and then seeing other men who may share those values and seeing if they have

00:40:22.060 things that are kind of common denominators or common threads in the way that they dress or the way that

00:40:27.040 they look and then starting to implement some of those things. It's ways for you to start to

00:40:31.240 experiment with what your own personal taste is.

00:40:33.700 So I've got two examples of how I see what you just laid out would work in my life and did work out in

00:40:38.480 my life. In high school, when we went to prom, there was about five of us. You wear the tux and

00:40:43.800 you do the thing and you wear what you're supposed to wear, but all of us decided to wear chucks

00:40:47.220 as our shoes. And this was appropriate, right? We wore the tux. We met the requirement. We met the

00:40:52.960 standard. And yet as the quote unquote jocks of the school, we were rebelling and we were saying

00:40:58.300 that we are independent of the rest of you, number one, and we are above following the rules even to

00:41:04.980 some degree. Perfect. So that was one example. The other one that I did is in the military ball.

00:41:09.840 When I was in the military, we wore our dress uniform and all of us in the section that I was

00:41:15.600 part of actually wore red bow ties as opposed to, I think it was just a black tie is what we were

00:41:20.800 supposed to wear. And yet again, same thing. We are representing unity within our section and we

00:41:25.660 were rebelling saying that we can do whatever we want. You guys have to follow the rules. We're not

00:41:29.660 going to 100%. Absolutely. And it doesn't even always have to be rebellious as far as like a

00:41:35.280 complete rejection of other people or anything else. Cause even like, why do you like your long

00:41:39.960 beard more than you liked it when it was shorter? What is appealing about that to you?

00:41:43.980 I don't know. I don't know if I can even articulate what that is. I think I just,

00:41:47.440 I like it. I, you know, one of the things that I do like about it is the fact that I can have

00:41:51.880 conversations with other people about specifically my beard. It's a great icebreaker and a short beard

00:41:57.100 didn't do it like a long beard does. Right. Okay. That makes perfect sense. And now you've

00:42:01.140 had it for so long. You've been seen enough with it that it become part of who you are as Ryan

00:42:05.880 Mickler and what's represented with order of man and everything else. You could still do order of

00:42:10.260 man just as well. If it were something else besides the beard that communicated what the beard does,

00:42:14.940 but your own personal preference was you're going to grow the beard out long. That's a great

00:42:18.760 manifestation of the tribal expectation or even the expectation of your rugged archetype. But then the

00:42:25.380 manifestation of it is done through a beard as opposed to something else.

00:42:28.980 Let's talk about the archetypes real quick as we kind of wind down here. Talked about the rugged

00:42:32.960 archetype, which I would consider me falling into that archetype. What are the, define that first for

00:42:38.600 me and then talk to me about the other two archetypes. So the archetypes are the easiest way to start to

00:42:43.680 separate yourself from the other men around you, or even just from other potential ideas of what good

00:42:49.100 style could be. Because again, good style is not just wearing a suit. You can have guys who manifest

00:42:54.000 and demonstrate really good style in different points in history or in different cultures or even

00:42:59.880 within, you know, the United States in 2017. There's different ways to express that. And so if you can

00:43:04.720 first identify how you primarily interact with the world around you, for someone like you, rugged, where

00:43:10.340 you enjoy working with your hands, you enjoy pushing yourself physically, you enjoy bending nature to your

00:43:16.440 will, the rugged archetype makes sense. The other two are refined and rakish. And men who fit within that

00:43:21.660 refined archetype, that's where I fall. I like rules. I like structure. I like society. I like

00:43:26.280 civilization. I like being able to navigate things based on dress codes and finances and all this

00:43:32.200 other stuff. And you fit within some degree to that archetype as well. And then the third one is

00:43:37.080 going to be rakish. And these are the guys who primarily identify by being rebels and rule breakers

00:43:42.240 and iconoclasts. And they want to give the middle finger to everybody else around them. And each one of

00:43:48.300 those has very different aesthetics that comes with it. And what's interesting is I think based

00:43:54.140 on what you're saying and what I've seen in the conversations we've had, you can be rakish, for

00:43:58.480 example, in a suit just as easily as you could be rakish in a cutoff sleeveless shirt, for example.

00:44:05.320 Yeah. Go to a demolition derby wearing a three-piece suit and tell me that that's not giving the

00:44:09.760 aesthetic middle finger to everybody around you.

00:44:12.100 Right. And we even see that to your point earlier about Conor McGregor. I mean,

00:44:15.740 dressed to the nines to go fight. He's going to fight and maim and hurt somebody. And he dresses

00:44:22.000 like a king. It's pretty interesting. Exactly. Exactly.

00:44:26.240 Well, Tanner, we're bumping up against time, man. This has actually gone by really, really quick.

00:44:30.320 And I know we could get into so much more. I would just encourage the guys to go out and buy the book,

00:44:34.540 The Appearance of Power. Really good book, fairly quick read, and has a lot of great information about

00:44:40.200 what we've been talking about, including the six strategies that we didn't get to cover,

00:44:44.380 unfortunately. Tanner, I want to ask you a couple of questions. The first one is,

00:44:48.240 what does it mean to be a man?

00:44:50.060 I love what you provided as far as the definition of provide, protect, and preside.

00:44:55.560 I think in order to be a man, you need to be somebody who's capable of being an agent that acts

00:45:01.580 as opposed to just being something passively waiting to be acted upon. A man is someone who does,

00:45:07.900 who becomes, rather than somebody who just responds or waits for things to happen to him.

00:45:14.580 Powerful. I love it, man. I love that definition. And I agree with that. How do we connect with you?

00:45:19.040 How do we pick up a copy of the book and just learn more?

00:45:21.140 So if you want to pick up a copy, you can go to appearanceofpower.com. It'll give you an

00:45:25.100 opportunity to go through there. You can also look it up on Amazon. As far as connecting with me,

00:45:29.620 that's a great place to do it. There's an opportunity to sign up for a newsletter where I give out

00:45:33.360 consistent information about how to apply these strategies and different tactical approaches or

00:45:37.680 how to think about this stuff differently. And then also social media would be Twitter,

00:45:42.680 YouTube, and Instagram, and all of those. It's just at Tanner Guzzi.

00:45:46.140 Right on. We will link that up. And then also, depending on when this show is being released,

00:45:50.180 guys, there's also Menfluential. And Tanner, I'm assuming you're going to be there. I will be there.

00:45:54.840 Awesome.

00:45:55.120 And it's in February. I'll get you guys the details so you have that, but you'll be able to connect with

00:45:59.040 us and so many other guys. So make sure you check that out as well. Tanner,

00:46:02.980 I've got to tell you, man, I appreciate our friendship, getting to know you,

00:46:06.520 the conversations we've had, and of course, all of your work. It has been instrumental in my life.

00:46:11.300 If we were to rewind, like I said, five years ago, there's no way in a million years I thought

00:46:15.520 that this would have the type of impact that it has on my level of confidence and my influence and

00:46:20.960 my income and my ability to show up more fully as a man. So I appreciate you for all that you've

00:46:25.300 provided to me, man. I love to hear that. I mean, honestly, Ryan, you are such a good example of

00:46:29.860 what it means to be a good man and a man who's good at being a man. And I love that. I've been

00:46:33.920 able to get to know you over the years and seen the success that you've built. And I expect so

00:46:38.280 much more from you. And it's fun to just be on this journey together, dude.

00:46:41.220 Thanks, brother.

00:46:43.520 Gentlemen, Mr. Tanner Guzzi, like I said, I have learned so much from this man about what I wear

00:46:48.240 and how it will help me accomplish my objectives. And I know you will too. I would encourage you to

00:46:53.260 pick up a copy of Tanner's book. I have read the entire thing. It is a great book. It's called

00:46:56.840 the appearance of power. If you need the link, head to order of man.com slash one, four, three

00:47:01.800 to get that. And of course the rest of the notes from this show. Also, if you enjoyed the show,

00:47:05.980 please let us know, let me and Tanner know on Instagram and Twitter, Facebook, wherever you

00:47:11.240 are. And also tell us what your biggest takeaway was. In the meantime, we have our meetup slash book

00:47:17.420 launch party in Nashville, January 26th, 27th, 2018. You can get registered at order of man.com slash

00:47:24.320 Nashville. And make sure you take a look at the iron council. This is the brotherhood I mentioned

00:47:28.440 earlier. You're going to band with other men who were accomplishing and striving to accomplish

00:47:33.400 the same things that you are. You can do that at order of man.com slash iron council guys. I will

00:47:39.620 look forward to talking with you on Friday for our Friday field notes, but until then take action

00:47:43.580 and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

00:47:50.120 you're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

00:47:54.160 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - December 12, 2017

143： The Appearance of Power ｜ Tanner Guzy

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