Order of Man - 147： Self-Mastery through Bow Hunting

00:00:00.000 Self-mastery is something that I talk a lot about. There are a ton of external sources that seem to be fighting against us at any given time, but even worse than that is that we seem to be our own worst enemy.

00:00:10.860 The best way to combat that is to learn to master your natural tendency to do the things that you know you shouldn't and do more of the things you know you should.

00:00:18.680 Today, I'm joined by my friend John Dudley to talk about archery, which at first glance doesn't seem to have anything to do with self-mastery, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

00:00:27.040 The amount of dedication and discipline this man has towards becoming a master of his craft is inspiring and something that we can all learn from.

00:00:34.420 Today, we talk about becoming a more well-rounded man, the power that comes from honing a craft, why coachability is critical, becoming a lifelong learner, and how to master yourself through bow hunting.

00:00:45.460 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:51.100 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong.

00:01:00.840 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.

00:01:05.100 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:10.580 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and the founder of Order of Man.

00:01:15.880 I want to welcome you. I want to thank you for spreading the mission of the order. We would not be where we are without your help and support.

00:01:22.720 So please, if you would, keep spreading the word. I've been really active on Instagram lately, so if you're there, make sure you connect at Order of Man.

00:01:30.940 Tag me also in your pictures so I can share them with our audience as well. I'm inspired by the work you're doing, and I know others will be as well.

00:01:37.460 So again, that's at Order of Man on Instagram, which is where I've been very active lately.

00:01:41.940 But other than that, I'm back from vacation this week. I've had to play a lot of catch-up as I took two and a half weeks off with my family in Hawaii.

00:01:48.440 It was a great trip with them. I really tuned out as much as I could, but it's also good to be back with you today.

00:01:54.100 Now, two things, guys, before I get into the meat of the conversation.

00:01:57.140 I'm only going to mention these in passing because I'm really anxious to get into this conversation.

00:02:00.680 First is our exclusive brotherhood, The Iron Council, which you can learn more about at orderofman.com slash ironcouncil.

00:02:06.880 And second, our live meetup in Nashville at the end of this month, which you can learn more about at orderofman.com slash Nashville.

00:02:13.440 As you can see, I've made it a huge, huge priority to bring men together in common purpose because it's not something that we regularly do, but something I believe we need much more of.

00:02:23.400 Again, it's The Iron Council at orderofman.com slash ironcouncil.

00:02:26.980 And the meetup at the end of this month, which is orderofman.com slash Nashville.

00:02:31.080 Guys, I am stoked to bring you this conversation with, I believe, one of the most qualified men to talk with you about mastery and discipline.

00:02:39.440 I recently picked up archery.

00:02:41.260 A lot of you guys have seen that, seen some of my posts.

00:02:43.900 In fact, I just harvested my first deer early this year, and I underestimated what it would take to make that hunt a success.

00:02:51.580 But a lot of what I learned, I learned from my guest, John Dudley.

00:02:54.560 He's been involved in archery since he was 10 years old.

00:02:57.120 He talks about his first hunt in this interview and since went on to shoot professionally for over 20 years with over 120 events worldwide, including gold and silver medal wins with the U.S. archery team.

00:03:08.860 He's dedicated his life to archery, and you guys are going to hear the passion in his voice as he is striving to become a master in his life and show us how to master ours.

00:03:20.100 Dudley, what's up, man?

00:03:21.020 Thanks for joining me on the show today.

00:03:22.460 Oh, yeah.

00:03:22.800 I'm excited about it, brother.

00:03:24.060 Me too.

00:03:24.320 We've been working on it a little while, and man, I've been following you for not too long, probably about five or six months, but you helped me complete a successful archery hunt.

00:03:32.260 So I thought, what better guy to get on the show than you to talk about this thing?

00:03:35.700 Well, thank you.

00:03:36.540 I appreciate that for sure.

00:03:38.180 So how did you get into archery?

00:03:39.800 I mean, you've been hunting since you were a boy, as far as I can tell and what I know.

00:03:43.120 How did you get specifically into archery?

00:03:45.080 Well, specifically into archery, it's funny.

00:03:47.340 I actually got introduced into archery specifically because I hunted with a gun.

00:03:53.780 I started out down in Mississippi.

00:03:55.800 I don't even think there's an age limit down there, but more or less, if you're under a certain age limit, you don't even really need a license or you didn't at the time.

00:04:04.540 And it's a deer a day.

00:04:06.160 And my family really hunted for food.

00:04:08.960 The first time I went out, I shot a, I can't remember if I shot a doe or something like that.

00:04:14.580 And it was with a shotgun with buckshot.

00:04:18.360 Really?

00:04:18.740 And then, yeah, yeah.

00:04:20.500 The next year, they took me out and set me down and gave me a rifle.

00:04:25.740 Back then, my uncle and my grandpa were really, really hardcore dudes.

00:04:30.480 They were both, well, they had different fields, but my grandpa was a forester.

00:04:35.060 They would pretty much drop me off and then go to work.

00:04:37.720 And then they would just say, we'll be back at dark.

00:04:40.020 So that's kind of how I started my all day sits.

00:04:43.080 And they gave me a rifle and pretty much said, just said crosshairs right on the shoulders, squeeze it off.

00:04:49.320 And I had never shot a rifle.

00:04:51.240 And my first time hunting, a deer came out.

00:04:55.340 It was a real rainy, nasty, cold day down in Mississippi.

00:04:58.360 And I shot.

00:04:59.900 I'm waiting and waiting.

00:05:01.300 No one showed up.

00:05:02.180 So then a few hours later, I ended up seeing another one.

00:05:04.580 And I thought, man, they're going to be impressed if I get two because I had never even heard of that.

00:05:10.760 So I shot another one and kept waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting.

00:05:16.240 And hours went by.

00:05:17.600 And then all of a sudden, I saw another one.

00:05:19.920 And I shot.

00:05:21.280 And needless to say, just before dark, when my grandpa came down, he's like, did you have any luck?

00:05:25.900 And I said, yeah, there's one right over here.

00:05:27.440 And we drove over there.

00:05:28.820 We picked that one up.

00:05:29.940 And then I said, OK, well, I got another one back here.

00:05:32.460 And he goes, what?

00:05:33.160 You shot two?

00:05:34.100 And I said, yeah.

00:05:35.160 I said, wait till you see it.

00:05:36.320 There's one back here.

00:05:37.720 And then we went there.

00:05:38.720 And I just said, well, guess what?

00:05:40.020 And he goes, what?

00:05:40.720 And I said, I got one more.

00:05:43.480 And at that point, he just looked at me really disgustingly and just said, now you're just being greedy.

00:05:51.640 And, you know, I'm like nine years old.

00:05:53.620 And he just looked at me.

00:05:54.700 He just said, you're a greedy little punk, aren't you, or something.

00:05:59.020 And, you know, my grandpa's, I think, one of, I forget how many brothers he had.

00:06:03.680 But there was a long chain of them.

00:06:05.060 They all served in the Korean War.

00:06:07.580 So he was from the School of Hard Knocks and obviously grew up during the Depression.

00:06:12.520 And to him, that was just not cool.

00:06:14.800 And he just told me, he said, he goes, you're not going to ever hunt here again.

00:06:18.940 The only way you're going to do it is if you do it like the Indians used to do it.

00:06:21.780 He goes, I'm not going to, you can't hunt here unless you use a bow and arrow.

00:06:24.660 He said, that's the only way to slow down someone like you.

00:06:28.580 So that's how it all began.

00:06:30.300 I started with a bow mainly because it was punishment.

00:06:34.880 Yeah, that's interesting.

00:06:36.300 And you also allude to the ethics of hunting, which I think a lot of people from the outside

00:06:40.520 looking in don't really think there's a whole lot of ethics behind what it is you do and

00:06:44.580 what it is that I'm getting involved with.

00:06:47.040 Talk to me a little bit about that because your grandpa instilled that to some degree

00:06:50.040 in you.

00:06:50.360 And I'm sure the lessons continued well beyond that.

00:06:52.620 Oh, yeah.

00:06:53.520 That's part of the importance.

00:06:55.480 After my grandpa, he actually kind of gave me off to my uncle because my uncle was really

00:07:01.060 into bow hunting, which wasn't very popular at the time down in Mississippi in the deep

00:07:06.020 south.

00:07:06.580 It was it was something that was really tough.

00:07:09.240 And because my grandpa didn't know much about bow hunting, he gave me off to my uncle Kenny.

00:07:13.820 Then I started shooting bow with my dad a little bit because my dad was interested in archery,

00:07:18.520 but not so much the hunting side.

00:07:21.000 And yeah, it's just it was a form of lifestyle.

00:07:24.240 Want and waste was definitely a shame.

00:07:26.980 And, you know, ever since the first time I shot something, they said, OK, we're going

00:07:32.640 to field dress this first one.

00:07:34.640 But after that, this is going to be your responsibility.

00:07:37.540 So you need to watch.

00:07:39.000 And they pretty much made you take ownership by learning to field dress and then eventually

00:07:45.180 learning how to to cut up that deer.

00:07:47.340 And whenever I was in deer camp with my family, they always made us eat venison.

00:07:51.080 And if I ever shot a squirrel or raccoon or something from the tree, my uncle's like, you're going

00:07:57.880 to eat that.

00:07:59.380 And yeah, yeah.

00:08:00.820 So, you know, obviously, as a kid growing up, we've all probably done stuff that maybe

00:08:06.300 looking back, I would like to do different.

00:08:09.220 However, the importance is having a mentor that toodles you on, you know, the importance

00:08:16.340 of, you know, really eating what you reap.

00:08:18.700 And that's why right now I'm really excited that the industry as a whole is on a very big

00:08:25.400 movement right now, which I'm kind of stamping knock to fork, at least on the archery side,

00:08:30.760 because, you know, there's a big importance to the reason why we're out and we're hunting.

00:08:36.780 Obviously, it's for for excitement and what we enjoy about hunting.

00:08:40.820 But we also have a very big benefit right now about eating things that we know right where

00:08:46.420 they come from.

00:08:47.160 My wife, Sharon, her mom and and her mom's husband, Brian, are here.

00:08:53.140 And we were talking today about the difference in ethics between farm animal slaughtering versus

00:09:01.720 hunting.

00:09:03.000 And we talked and, you know, they're from England, so they're not really they're not

00:09:07.400 used to the hunting lifestyle.

00:09:08.640 So for them, at first they were I shouldn't say they're against what I did, but they didn't

00:09:14.520 really understand the hunting and so forth.

00:09:17.200 But then the more and more that they've known me, the more they start to understand that there's

00:09:25.660 a difference between hunters and how they take care of their animals and prepare their

00:09:31.060 animals and know everything about the animals and where that meat comes from versus them where

00:09:36.120 they go to the store and I'm like, you know, I start talking to them about, OK, well, here's

00:09:40.240 here's how they process farm raised animals and, you know, mass produced meat and protein.

00:09:46.140 And and they just start looking at it and they're like, hey, you know what?

00:09:49.460 What you're doing is actually, you know, we appreciate that now that it's been shown to

00:09:54.740 us that way and explained to us that way, they're appreciative of it.

00:09:58.800 And, you know, I've got, you know, my mother-in-law is here from England.

00:10:03.740 You know, she's in her 60s.

00:10:05.420 Just last night we ate elk burgers and she's like, these are amazing.

00:10:09.920 They're unbelievable.

00:10:11.060 And I was able to show her pictures of that elk for the first time.

00:10:14.520 And she's just like, you know, she ends up saying the hardest thing for me, I think,

00:10:18.980 about this whole process is that it's not that you you shot it.

00:10:23.600 It's not about us eating it.

00:10:25.700 It's the fact that I kind of put myself in the position of if I shot that animal and it

00:10:30.440 was on the ground, I would have no idea what to do.

00:10:33.200 And I said, yeah, that's part of mentoring is having someone that would be there to show

00:10:38.320 you this is what we do.

00:10:40.180 This is how we take care of meat properly.

00:10:42.400 And I said, and then once you're at that point and I said, you know, I'm here with my family

00:10:47.060 sharing this, being able to talk about it in this way.

00:10:49.860 And I said, we would never be having this conversation if we were just eating a beef

00:10:55.440 store.

00:10:56.480 Exactly.

00:10:57.360 So it's a completely different thing.

00:10:59.500 And I'm just really thankful that that I'm able to experience it, to be honest with you.

00:11:05.080 I think there's such a huge disconnect between, you know, where our food comes from and then

00:11:10.280 actually, you know, on the table.

00:11:11.920 You talk about knock to fork and I see your Instagram pictures where you're actually putting

00:11:16.440 the food that you're eating and how fresh it is and how good it looks.

00:11:19.260 And besides the health benefits, I just think there's something to be said for connecting

00:11:23.600 with the animal that you're actually eating and you're consuming and the appreciation that

00:11:28.040 comes from that as well.

00:11:29.560 Yeah, no question about it.

00:11:31.120 And now, you know, the great thing about social media is that people start to be able to share

00:11:36.380 their lifestyles.

00:11:37.800 And, you know, you're not just getting to associate with like I used to have friends that were all

00:11:43.120 about lifting and I'd have friends that were all about archery and I'd have friends that were all

00:11:47.420 about hunting.

00:11:48.480 And then I had a few friends that were really good at grilling and cooking.

00:11:54.220 Whereas now I'm able to like build these relationships with people to where I'm able

00:12:00.180 to really hone those crafts in a multiple areas.

00:12:04.940 It's just social media has been great from that aspect.

00:12:07.580 It's really let us grow as a hunting community.

00:12:09.560 How did you go from hunting with archery to becoming a competitive archer?

00:12:15.220 Because that was a transition that you made and you did that for a lot of years, completing

00:12:18.200 at the global level.

00:12:19.920 Yeah, yeah.

00:12:20.560 So I started hunting first.

00:12:23.520 Like I said, I think I started bow hunting right when I was nine.

00:12:26.540 And then I started at an archery club doing some local tournaments and things like that.

00:12:31.860 But then towards the tail end of 17, I went to my first competition.

00:12:37.780 It's a pretty long story.

00:12:39.040 Or you could actually just go on YouTube and search John Dudley Hoyt, I am defiant.

00:12:45.700 And you'll see a great little documentary video that Taylor Larson built mainly based on how

00:12:53.520 I was introduced into archery and why I started shooting competitively.

00:12:59.220 And then also mainly the reason why I started shooting competitively was to become a more

00:13:05.440 ethical bow hunter.

00:13:07.280 And I kind of have this saying, you know, I'm a target archer to be a better bow hunter.

00:13:12.020 And I'm a better bow hunter because I'm a target archer.

00:13:15.060 And so I just really feel like, and especially in this past year in our industry, the downside

00:13:21.560 with social media, I talked about the upside, but the downside is there's a lot of people

00:13:26.440 that really have the ability to try to make a name for themselves really fast.

00:13:31.220 A lot of those people push the limits on what they should and shouldn't do, at least in my

00:13:37.540 opinion, in order to get impressions.

00:13:40.600 And so about a year ago, there was kind of an issue in our archery industry from a couple that

00:13:46.380 had a bow hunt.

00:13:47.840 They ended up getting terminated by a big archery company just because of the basis of how that

00:13:53.140 hunt unfolded and the negative impression it left on mainstream media.

00:13:57.760 So, you know, they called for this big rally from all the hunters to support them because

00:14:04.100 the main, the mainstream company wasn't supporting legal hunting.

00:14:09.400 So I really felt this need to do a podcast on, you know, there's a big difference between

00:14:15.740 legal and ethical.

00:14:18.040 And as hunters, you know, there's things where even me, there's times where I'm having fun

00:14:24.260 with my friends and I'm not necessarily doing anything.

00:14:27.120 I'm not doing anything illegally, but I'm doing things to where if someone were to view this

00:14:32.300 from an outside perspective and not be a hunter, it would have a negative impact on archery because

00:14:40.560 there is a fine line between legal and ethical.

00:14:46.240 And I feel like as hunters, at least for me, I'm starting to really appreciate the fact that

00:14:51.760 I have to really focus on what is going to be represented correctly as ethical.

00:14:58.220 And then second to that, I need to obviously make sure that it's legal, but, you know, there's

00:15:03.800 a fine line there.

00:15:04.940 It's, you know, as hunters, we can go out and legally you could shoot something right square

00:15:12.620 between the eyes and, and kill it.

00:15:15.440 And it's legal and it's probably the best for the meat, no question.

00:15:20.200 But if you're going to post that type of thing to be visible to people like my mother-in-law

00:15:27.140 who don't get an explanation on why that happened at that point, there's a valid argument for,

00:15:35.140 is this ethical to people outside of our community?

00:15:39.400 And I think as outdoorsmen and as hunters, I think that's part of the responsibility that

00:15:46.200 we really need to have an initiative right now on.

00:15:50.020 I mean, I really appreciate you talking about the difference between legal and ethical because

00:15:53.780 I think you're right.

00:15:54.540 I think ethical is, is definitely the higher standard and we might be able to sneak away

00:15:59.680 with something or get by with something and legally there's no ramifications, but at the

00:16:03.300 end of the day, you have to live with yourself ultimately.

00:16:05.580 And that was one of the things that I experienced on this first bow hunt that I went on.

00:16:09.820 I didn't make a very good shot and I nicked one of the deer's lungs and it was essentially

00:16:14.500 it was a gut shot and we had to track the thing for three hours.

00:16:18.280 I'm glad that we eventually found it with the help of, of my guide and his expertise.

00:16:23.020 But at the same time, I felt like I did that animal a disservice by not making the best shot

00:16:29.980 that I could have.

00:16:30.640 So there's a lot more that goes to it than what meets the eye in the general public, I think.

00:16:34.760 Yeah, no question about it.

00:16:36.680 And you know, the thing is with that, this past year, the big buck that I shot, the last

00:16:42.100 buck that I shot here in Iowa, I did the exact same thing.

00:16:46.080 That buck came in on a doe.

00:16:48.700 Everything happens fast during the rut.

00:16:50.700 The buck turned.

00:16:51.940 I had a broadside shot for just a second.

00:16:54.400 And then as I shot, my top limb actually hit my bow hanger and the deer was slightly turning

00:17:00.800 at the same time.

00:17:01.840 And when I hit him, it was the same thing.

00:17:03.420 It was questionable on whether I got the liver or whether it was just a complete, almost

00:17:09.220 intestinal shot.

00:17:10.940 I immediately, you could tell on camera, I immediately felt sick to my stomach.

00:17:16.160 The thing is, is that an ethical shot?

00:17:19.100 It wasn't an ethical impact.

00:17:20.980 It was a fatal impact.

00:17:22.540 And it's a legal impact.

00:17:24.020 But was it ethical?

00:17:25.620 You know, and that's kind of on the same lines.

00:17:27.760 It's legal for everybody to go out and make a shot just like that on an animal that's too

00:17:33.560 far back and would cause the animal longer to expire.

00:17:36.720 But that's not what we're after.

00:17:38.680 Essentially, why I practice again and why I competed as what I feel like, you know, on

00:17:44.720 an elite level was because I wanted to be able to maximize my efficiency in hunting situations.

00:17:51.440 And, you know, with hunting situations, they're much different than a target archery situation

00:17:56.640 because there's a lot of elements that you don't have control on.

00:18:01.000 Whereas in target archery, the elements from a sheer safety point of view are a controlled

00:18:07.820 element.

00:18:08.740 It allows you to perfect your technique and to perfect your accuracy.

00:18:13.100 But it also doesn't throw in a lot of variables like the target doesn't all of a sudden slightly

00:18:18.520 turn for no reason.

00:18:19.860 You know what I mean?

00:18:20.440 So, you know, we're trying to be the most ethical.

00:18:23.600 But at the same time, there's times where marginal hits happen.

00:18:27.680 And honestly, once again, that's where it comes in as being important for there to be mentors

00:18:34.980 in the bowhunting community that are able to say, which actually is what I did.

00:18:40.220 I easily have the opportunity to hide my shot or maybe doctor my shot a little bit in editing

00:18:47.580 to where it wouldn't look as bad or I could cut away faster to where I would make myself

00:18:53.340 look better.

00:18:54.340 But I really feel like part of being honest about who I am, no matter how long I've shot

00:19:00.580 or what I've accomplished from a competitive point of view, those things are going to happen.

00:19:05.860 And it's important for our industry and people like you, you know, if this video would have

00:19:11.880 came out a year ago and I showed you everything transparently, you would have been able to

00:19:17.460 say, dang it.

00:19:18.340 I remember when John made that hit and he was adamant about knowing that hit was marginal

00:19:24.940 and not going after that animal right away so that we're not tracking it, bumping it,

00:19:31.580 tracking it again.

00:19:32.640 Then you almost feel worse because it's like, okay, now my chances are even lower of recovery.

00:19:37.620 And then that's 10 times worse feeling than just having the marginal hit.

00:19:42.860 So, you know, there's a lot of things that go in.

00:19:45.220 And I think the bottom line is I've never met a hunter that's made a poor hit on an animal

00:19:50.980 that just turns around and says, who cares?

00:19:53.140 Yeah.

00:19:53.260 I mean, every time I've known any hunter to make a shot to where the animal didn't go down

00:20:00.080 immediately within sight.

00:20:02.140 And sometimes they do go down immediately, but they're not within sight.

00:20:06.360 Every single person or hunter has felt a connection and an obligation to that animal.

00:20:11.840 And every single time they've turned around and said, man, I feel really bad about that hit.

00:20:17.720 And I just think that that's this misunderstanding that a lot of the mainstream media doesn't

00:20:23.520 understand is that hunters and conservationists, we have almost a greater connection to these

00:20:32.140 types of things than the people who have no association with those animals and no investment.

00:20:39.000 Honestly, no investment at all, other than the fact of they have a belief.

00:20:45.440 They have a belief that it's not humane, but they don't have an investment.

00:20:50.220 They haven't been out there.

00:20:51.480 They haven't been doing the food plots, taking the pictures, you know, putting in the time,

00:20:57.120 freezing cold for a month on end, and then, you know, taking time away from their family,

00:21:01.540 missing soccer games.

00:21:02.760 And then all of a sudden, here's the shot, and you make a marginal hit, and you realize

00:21:07.820 that could be it for me, and I'm not going to retrieve this animal.

00:21:11.720 The feeling is one that it's hard to explain to anyone who wouldn't understand it.

00:21:16.900 But the reality is, the vast majority of the time, that doesn't happen because there's people,

00:21:23.560 especially now, that are learning, which is a big part of why I do what I do, to try to just

00:21:29.300 teach people and give them as much information and tools as they can to be ethical hunters

00:21:35.380 and, more importantly, more successful out there and also have the ability to be a mentor

00:21:42.240 themselves.

00:21:43.600 I mean, it's really interesting that you talk about this.

00:21:45.760 I actually had somebody make a comment on one of my posts about how horrible it was that

00:21:49.660 I killed a deer, and I asked if he was a vegan, and he said, oh, no, I eat meat, and I just get it

00:21:54.660 at the grocery store.

00:21:55.420 And literally, he said, I just think this is something that should be left to governments

00:22:00.360 and corporations.

00:22:02.160 And I couldn't even believe the words that were coming out of this guy's mouth and the

00:22:07.080 delusion that people live in.

00:22:08.960 It's just fascinating.

00:22:12.160 Gentlemen, it's the last couple of weeks leading up to our meetup in Nashville.

00:22:15.340 Last week on the podcast, I mentioned eight key factors of the event that you're going to

00:22:19.600 want to be part of.

00:22:20.840 You can check that out if you're interested at orderofman.com slash FFN.

00:22:24.900 And FFN is in Friday Field Notes 089.

00:22:27.940 At the end of the day, I cannot overstate how important proximity is.

00:22:32.200 And that's what this event is all about.

00:22:34.180 Proximity to those men who are striving to accomplish similar things as you.

00:22:38.900 The ups, the downs, the struggles, the victories, the failures, the successes, all of it.

00:22:42.640 And this is exactly what you're going to get access to when you come to our meetup in

00:22:46.740 Nashville, January 26, 27, 2018.

00:22:49.520 I had a very, very hard time finding those men who wanted to do great things in their

00:22:55.220 lives when I began this mission in this journey.

00:22:57.400 So I created it.

00:22:58.640 And that's what you're listening to right now.

00:23:00.360 The order of man, the iron council, the meetups that we're doing, all of it is because I needed

00:23:03.840 this in my life.

00:23:04.740 And again, that's what you're going to experience the end of this month.

00:23:07.620 If you are interested in banding with us and connecting with other men who are on that same

00:23:11.960 journey as you, as I was interested in doing, you can head to order of man.com slash Nashville

00:23:16.740 again, order of man.com slash Nashville.

00:23:19.720 I hope to see you there.

00:23:21.100 Now let's get back to my conversation with John.

00:23:23.600 I want to move on to your training regiment because you talk about being a, a target archer.

00:23:32.040 What is your training look like from that perspective?

00:23:35.360 And then also physical training, which I know is something that's very, very important for

00:23:38.660 you as well.

00:23:39.780 Yeah.

00:23:40.440 So on the, I guess the archery training side, it would have been much different if all I

00:23:47.080 ever was, was a hunter.

00:23:48.240 When I was a target archer, I was very, very disciplined on what I had to do each and every

00:23:57.440 day to prepare for an event at hand, because ever since I turned pro at the end of 97, and

00:24:05.060 actually starting in 1998, I shot on three professional tours.

00:24:08.820 Then I ended up moving up to four.

00:24:10.940 So I would shoot about 23 national events and three world championships per year.

00:24:18.000 So 26 weekends a month, I would be shooting.

00:24:21.720 So, you know, you're continually training for an event at hand.

00:24:25.680 And each of those tours had a slightly different format.

00:24:29.520 So some had speed limitations, some had distance limitations, some were on 3D targets, some were

00:24:35.740 on field targets, some were indoor, some were just strictly outdoor.

00:24:40.660 So each one of them has their own rules.

00:24:42.960 So within those rules, you obviously are continually changing your equipment.

00:24:48.000 And trying to take equipment choices that are super, super specific for what you have.

00:24:53.880 Here recently, I'm just using this as an example.

00:24:57.000 There's an MX rider, Nate Adams, that started following my social media.

00:25:02.940 And he's a hunter and he rides, you know, with the Nitro Circus.

00:25:07.260 So I would imagine with Nate, if they're going and doing an event on an extremely closed quarter arena, he's going to have a slightly different build on his bike than if he were to be able to go out and be in an outdoor venue.

00:25:21.440 Or, for example, if all of a sudden he realizes, you know, these ramps are much closer together, there's a very good chance of high wind, the height is much higher on these jumps versus length.

00:25:33.640 You know, he probably starts to factor all those things in and then he probably takes very specific bikes or specific gear ratios for those events.

00:25:41.640 And that's really what I had to do, too, is really start to perfect my equipment based on the application.

00:25:49.160 So I really had to start doing homework.

00:25:50.960 And meanwhile, during this whole course of time where I where I shot professionally for a long, long period of time, I was actually working at an archery manufacturer as, you know, kind of one of the first key employees there.

00:26:05.500 So I was very in depth with the process of manufacturing bows and I was behind the scenes with the R&D and the concepting and design.

00:26:15.320 And I did most of the shooting from an accuracy testing point of view.

00:26:18.940 I just had a whole different perspective.

00:26:21.220 You know, I was fortunate that I had a very, very well rounded perspective on our community.

00:26:26.960 I got to not only be a shooter, not only be a hunter, but I was able to see design concepting and how those what the limitations to equipment is and why.

00:26:38.100 But then I also got to see the repercussions of things that pro staffer did and how it would affect major companies and how those ripples just continue to escalate as they go through these manufacturers and companies that are essentially the bigger names of the industry.

00:26:59.920 So, you know, I was able to understand really quick why, you know, having a tongue hanging out on a picture with your deer isn't necessarily that good.

00:27:10.520 It's not like it's that hard, hard to put it back in back in there.

00:27:13.960 Right. Yeah.

00:27:14.720 So, I mean, it got to the point where, you know, I was traveling places with paper towels and baby wipes and rubber bands in my backpack with my camera and people were like, what are you doing?

00:27:24.600 And I'm just like, I'm just trying to clean them up a little bit, make them presentable.

00:27:27.860 You know, there's people out there that aren't necessarily hunters in the hunting community, at least back then.

00:27:33.460 They would look at me like, what?

00:27:35.000 What are you talking about?

00:27:36.680 But you got to realize when you're putting a couple hundred thousand catalogs out to the world and you're at a trade show in Las Vegas handing them out, other people see these things.

00:27:48.500 So, you know, I started to just really get a very well-rounded perspective on, you know, what we really need to do from that point of view.

00:27:57.360 And then, you know, obviously, just I really started to get a whole new appreciation on the importance of practice.

00:28:05.420 And for me, I guess going back specifically to like practice regimens, I practice year round.

00:28:12.960 I don't feel like, you know, I don't feel like you're doing an obligation to any animal by just picking up your bow a few weeks before season and shooting a few shots in the backyard and going out.

00:28:23.280 I shoot continually all year long.

00:28:26.280 Some days I practice more.

00:28:27.920 If I'm shooting good, I shoot.

00:28:29.180 If I'm not shooting good, I don't.

00:28:30.600 But I always I always get out there and shoot continually.

00:28:34.940 And from a fitness point of view, I was always into fitness just because I was an athlete before I was an archer.

00:28:41.980 You played football, didn't you?

00:28:43.360 Yeah, I played a little bit of everything.

00:28:45.020 You got a scholarship, if I understand correctly, to go play college ball, didn't you?

00:28:48.300 Yeah, I was a tall person, still tall, but yeah, I was, you know, six and a half feet and, you know, two and a quarter.

00:28:58.140 And that's how I was, you know, pretty much ever since my junior year.

00:29:02.100 Anything that was sports related, track, tennis, cross country, basketball, football, badminton, it didn't matter.

00:29:12.120 You did it all.

00:29:12.460 Yeah, I would do anything because I just and if I wasn't good at it, I would figure out a way to get better.

00:29:20.100 And that was just, you know, natural competitive drive that I think a lot of people have because of kind of my football and basketball and some wrestling.

00:29:30.020 I was just really into weightlifting and then pretty much weightlifted since I was maybe 13.

00:29:36.420 I was never really good at it.

00:29:38.060 I ended up competing in the Arnold Classic.

00:29:40.660 I think I competed in the first one in 2005.

00:29:43.980 They introduced archery.

00:29:45.380 I won that in 2005 and then again in 2006.

00:29:48.940 And throughout those two tournaments, I ended up meeting Frank Zane, who was a former Miss Olympia, and then also Arnold as well.

00:29:56.940 Both of them shot archery as their R&R back in their bodybuilding days.

00:30:01.460 Really interesting.

00:30:02.500 Yeah, they would shoot at Santa Monica High School.

00:30:05.720 They would shoot archery as kind of their stress relief from bodybuilding.

00:30:09.600 So, you know, they ended up kind of wanting to get back into archery and get some lessons.

00:30:13.820 So, I was fortunate to be part of that and then kind of said, yeah, I'll give you lessons if you give me some lessons in weightlifting.

00:30:20.300 So, I ended up traveling down the first time and staying with Frank Zane for three or four days.

00:30:26.360 And, you know, we'd shoot archery and then weightlift and shoot archery and weightlift.

00:30:30.260 And I just realized really quick that for the first 18 years of my life, I was wasting time as a weightlifter because I was doing it very inefficiently.

00:30:42.060 So, he showed me a better way to do, you know, a more efficient way to do it and a better way to prevent injury and then also a better way to set goals to where you continually progressed.

00:30:52.260 The last time we had really kind of trained for a purpose, at the time I was 32, and he said, I want you to set a goal to be in better shape when you're 40 than you are right now or that you were at 30.

00:31:07.120 He said, if you set that goal, he goes, then you'll continually progress each and every year.

00:31:13.060 He said, if you want to be in better shape at 33 than you are at 32, then you really don't have any idea what's going to happen when you're 34.

00:31:21.520 So, I really set that long-term goal and each and every year when people are talking about New Year's resolutions, I would never set one because I still had one that I hadn't fulfilled.

00:31:32.060 And I just continually progressed and then ended up, I had a shoulder, my big shoulder failure and surgery and all that was when I was 39.

00:31:41.920 And I had nine months to stay on track to meet that goal.

00:31:45.680 And I did end up meeting it.

00:31:48.200 And I actually, I sent a text to Frank and said, remember that goal?

00:31:53.520 And he said, not really.

00:31:54.520 And I said, well, this is what you told me.

00:31:56.580 And I sent him it and he just said, man, I want you to do an article for my quarterly newsletter about that.

00:32:04.300 Because he said, that's really cool that even through your surgery, that's what you were focused on is making sure that you attain that long-term goal.

00:32:12.880 So, I really feel like fitness has done a lot for the hunters and for the archers because fitness has always exposed my weak points.

00:32:23.000 And as hunters, it's not just shooting a bow.

00:32:27.400 You know, there's a lot to be said about guys that go out west and they're going after an elk and they're spending an hour trying to pursue this elk and climb these hills and work the wind and go through this canyon and loop around.

00:32:41.240 And then all of a sudden they finally get in that position and the bull comes out and they have nothing left in the tank because they were completely shot and they missed the opportunity.

00:32:51.500 And I think right now there's just – there's also a big movement on a lot of guys that are just in good shape that are starting to take up hunting and they immediately find success because I just really feel like the two go hand in hand.

00:33:07.400 What else do you gain from archery?

00:33:09.320 Obviously, you gain the meat and the experience, but what are some other things that you personally gain, whether that's being a better man or some skill set that you've been able to enhance through your practice?

00:33:21.500 Well, I think there's a lot of things in relation to order of man.

00:33:26.240 You know, just like with your logo here, we got some –

00:33:29.000 That's right.

00:33:29.400 You're representing today.

00:33:30.180 I like to see that.

00:33:31.240 Yeah, we got some tomahawks crossed.

00:33:33.420 And I can tell you back 15, 20 years ago being up in the start of the Rockies in BC, you know, sleeping in a little sleeping bag next to my guide and his son and getting up in the morning and you're literally afraid to touch the zipper on your sleeping bag.

00:33:51.680 Like – and you're literally debating, should I just piss in my bed right now?

00:33:55.800 Yeah, warm me up for a minute.

00:33:57.360 Just to get some heat or – and you kind of know the first person out of bed has to stoke that camp stove too.

00:34:04.660 So, yeah, just getting up, learning to cut wood, learning to survive, learning to get in there.

00:34:10.280 And, you know, if you get an animal down and by the time you find it, it's 11 o'clock at night and it starts getting freezing cold, learning to start a fire and jam your hands up inside that thing and pull everything out and field dress it and start caping and cutting and hanging and just all that stuff.

00:34:28.440 I mean, there's a lot of things that if you're in the outdoors and if you're hunting, man, you learn a lot of things as a man.

00:34:37.240 And my son – my son right now is funny enough, he started bowhunting when he was nine.

00:34:43.240 He's grown up in front of the camera to a lot of people.

00:34:46.620 And actually, even though he hunts, he shoots things, he's wanted to be a vet since as long as I can remember.

00:34:53.640 He's going to college right now to be a vet and, you know, he just has a whole different appreciation.

00:34:59.500 He understands, you know, how to field dress.

00:35:02.580 It's made him a better person in class.

00:35:04.880 When they start dissecting and everything, he's just like, oh, yeah, that's the esophagus.

00:35:09.380 You know, if you want to field dress something, you got to cut that, put your hands in it and pull it out the back.

00:35:14.280 And, you know, he kind of knows about different glands and stuff that you might want to remove or how to separate muscle groups.

00:35:20.280 It's – you know, all that stuff is things that he's learned because he was a hunter, not because he was just a person.

00:35:26.160 Yeah, that's interesting.

00:35:27.520 It's probably very similar to my son.

00:35:29.440 He's only nine, but he wants to be a, quote, cowboy animal doctor.

00:35:34.120 And yet when I went on this hunt, he was like, dad, what did you – you know, what did you kill this weekend?

00:35:38.620 Did you get one?

00:35:39.240 Like he's so excited about the hunt, although he has this soft spot and compassion for animals, very similar to what it sounds like your son's all about.

00:35:46.720 Yeah, I've never really met someone, a youth, that goes out into the field that just doesn't have a big old smile on their face.

00:35:54.800 And a lot of it has to do with what type of elements you put them in.

00:35:58.160 If you put them in something you're miserable with, obviously they're going to be miserable too.

00:36:02.600 But just learning how to regulate that.

00:36:04.740 My boy started – you know, when he started deer hunting, you know, I never really put him in a tree stand and made him freeze to death and sit there and tell him he couldn't move or anything like that.

00:36:15.060 And I, you know, I put him in a blind.

00:36:16.880 We'd sit in a redneck blind.

00:36:18.940 I'd pick him up from school or, you know, I'd normally text him and say, hey, what are you doing?

00:36:23.400 He's like, I kind of want to go hunting tonight.

00:36:25.140 So I'd just say, what kind of homework do you have?

00:36:27.040 And, well, I've got a little bit.

00:36:28.600 And I'd just say, okay, I'll pick you up with your bow.

00:36:30.320 And I'd pick him up with his bow and literally put some warm clothes on him, take him to – you know, I would set up places specific for my wife and my boy that I knew weren't places that would wig me out if they were making noise or getting in there late or wanting to leave early.

00:36:47.540 Because all that stuff, when you have to complain about that, it makes it not fun for them.

00:36:52.980 So, you know, we'd have these spots where I knew I could go in there after school, jump in the blind with Harry and literally let him do his homework and then just say, hey, you know, a deer just came out.

00:37:04.980 And, you know, he'd kind of look out and I'd say, yeah, it's not something you're going to shoot.

00:37:09.240 And he'd say, okay, just let me know.

00:37:10.620 And he'd keep working on his homework and, yeah, I mean, I think if you do that, you just start to develop this vast love for the outdoors.

00:37:21.540 Another thing too is, you know, people, no matter what age level you are, when you overcome odds of not thinking you're going to see something, then you do see something, you're nervous about making a bad shot, then you make a good shot.

00:37:36.300 Every single part of that, every one of those things is like winning a tournament.

00:37:42.960 You know, all those things, you're overcoming odds and you're accomplishing something that you had a slight seed of doubt in your mind about.

00:37:51.840 And I just think there's just unlimited numbers of reasons why it's valuable for kids and people who don't ever deal with hardship to get out and experience.

00:38:03.620 And that's the thing I'm noticing about this conversation.

00:38:06.080 Yeah, we're talking about hunting.

00:38:07.300 We're talking about archery.

00:38:08.360 But for those of you who are listening, I really want you to maybe even rewind this, listen to it again, because I do believe there's so many life lessons that can be extracted from this conversation.

00:38:17.860 And of course, the practice and the art of hunting.

00:38:21.400 So there's a lot of guys listening to this that have reached out to me.

00:38:25.320 They want to get into hunting.

00:38:26.420 They want to get into archery.

00:38:27.700 You've got a ton of videos, a ton of resources.

00:38:29.960 I've used them personally.

00:38:31.020 I can attest for the fact that they work and the things that I've learned from you.

00:38:34.540 What would you suggest to somebody who's just getting into archery that they spend some time thinking about, maybe one to two to three different things they should focus on?

00:38:44.940 Well, I think anyone who's getting involved, you should do a number of things.

00:38:49.220 One, try to do some research first.

00:38:52.060 Obviously, what I'm doing, especially now, there's a lot of people that see what I'm doing and they feel like it's this cash cow.

00:38:59.660 So now everybody's jumping on board.

00:39:01.500 And the problem is there's a lot of just like with anything, there's a lot of people that don't necessarily have the correct information to feed you.

00:39:10.200 But a lot of the things that I'm bringing out and a lot of the things I teach are really based on things that I made mistakes on.

00:39:18.060 I'm very transparent in the fact that even though I feel like I've obtained a level that I'm really, really content with and proud of, I feel like I've made almost every mistake you can to get to that level.

00:39:32.260 It's part of the journey though, right?

00:39:33.400 Yeah, absolutely.

00:39:34.920 And because I'm a coach, I continually get reminded about things that I take for granted.

00:39:41.020 You know, there's times where I work with someone and I'm just like, man, these people are struggling with this.

00:39:45.920 And this is something I think a lot of people are struggling with.

00:39:48.440 So I bring those little things out.

00:39:50.700 So really through my different YouTube things and my videos, there's times where I post hunting stuff and times where I post fitness stuff.

00:39:58.320 But there's also time where I really dedicate to learning and educating and a lot of my live feeds are very specific to me practicing, talking about shots that I made that were bad or why a shot was good.

00:40:12.200 And then reading through those people's questions to try to identify some of that and be able to show you right there firsthand the do's and don'ts.

00:40:21.740 But I think what's really critical is, you know, make sure you're getting information from a reputable source.

00:40:27.500 Normally, if one or two people are telling you the same thing, then it's probably reputable.

00:40:33.400 So find a reputable source and continually try to educate yourself, even once you feel like you're doing it good or better than what you were before.

00:40:44.060 You know, I continually work with or go to different coaching summits.

00:40:48.840 And when they ask me to go there as a key speaker, I may go there as a key speaker to a, you know, an Olympic coaching summit.

00:40:56.580 But I don't just leave the room because I'm not the one talking at that time.

00:41:00.760 I sit in there and I listen and listen.

00:41:03.400 And there's things where I'll say, OK, I don't really particularly believe that.

00:41:07.300 I don't think that's how I would see that.

00:41:10.620 But I still listen and listen and listen.

00:41:13.040 All of a sudden you pick up one thing and you're like, now that that made sense.

00:41:17.160 That's something I want to try, because how he explained that I've never heard it that way.

00:41:21.880 That's something I want to do.

00:41:23.000 And next thing you know, you take one little nugget out of this big piece and you're able to learn one small, finite thing that makes you a little bit better.

00:41:33.320 So I think find a reputable source, continual education, and then also, just like with anything in life, nothing comes easy.

00:41:42.720 You know, I made a post the other day.

00:41:44.200 Most habits are known to take up to 21 days in order to create them as a habit.

00:41:50.300 So if you pick up something new for the first time and someone teaches you to grab a baseball bat and put your right hand on top and swing, it's going to feel uncomfortable.

00:41:59.140 But if you do that for enough time, you're going to start to actually get to the point where that practice works.

00:42:05.180 So if a coach does give you something new to try, don't bail on it before you've given it adamant time to actually, you know, flourish and flower and develop.

00:42:18.040 I feel like there's people that are coachable and there's people that aren't.

00:42:21.880 And I try to weigh that out.

00:42:23.440 I'm really limited on how many people I can work with.

00:42:26.040 So a lot of times my assessment with people is, is this someone that's coachable?

00:42:31.380 And if all of a sudden I just realize, OK, I've said the same thing 10 times and they still keep going back, then I'm just I'm spinning my tires here.

00:42:40.920 And it's not like I need to be coaching these people.

00:42:44.360 So, you know, I just tell them flat out, hey, you are more comfortable with your way.

00:42:49.860 The best thing you can do is just stick with that.

00:42:52.500 And I'm going to go coach my way.

00:42:54.720 You keep working on your way and we'll do it like that.

00:42:57.340 But sometimes I have people that are like, that feels terrible.

00:43:00.460 I don't really like it, but I'm going to give it a try.

00:43:02.720 And then they come back in three weeks and they're like, listen, I've been trying this.

00:43:06.640 I feel like I'm close, but it doesn't quite feel right yet.

00:43:10.980 Well, you take a look.

00:43:11.860 And then, of course, those are the people where you're like, OK, you're almost there.

00:43:15.920 Here's all you need to do to make this work.

00:43:17.960 And then you can see they put just a little bit of time and effort into that.

00:43:21.420 And then all of a sudden that light bulb goes off and they're off and running.

00:43:26.020 Right on.

00:43:26.440 Well, hey, Dudley, we're bumping up against time here.

00:43:28.540 I do want to ask you a couple additional questions.

00:43:30.680 The first one I just threw at you not too long ago.

00:43:33.560 And that question is, what does it mean to be a man?

00:43:36.860 A very easy question to answer in a short period of time, right?

00:43:40.440 Yeah, the three B's.

00:43:42.200 The three B's.

00:43:43.560 That's what I think.

00:43:44.260 I've got the three P's.

00:43:45.340 So I'm curious about the three B's.

00:43:47.580 The three B's are bows, balls, and beverages.

00:43:51.680 There it is, man.

00:43:52.840 That's all there is to it.

00:43:55.020 What's your three P's?

00:43:56.520 Protect, provide, preside.

00:43:58.880 Well, yeah.

00:43:59.920 Well, that's good.

00:44:00.880 We'll combine them somehow.

00:44:03.320 Yeah, absolutely.

00:44:04.880 Absolutely.

00:44:05.980 What else you got?

00:44:06.860 How do we connect with you?

00:44:07.820 That's what I want to know.

00:44:08.520 Because there's guys listening to this.

00:44:09.680 They want to take the next step.

00:44:10.700 They want to learn more about what you're doing.

00:44:11.980 How do they do that?

00:44:12.580 So for social media, Facebook or for Instagram, you go to knockonTV, which is there's no K on

00:44:20.040 the front of that knock.

00:44:21.040 It's not fighting knock.

00:44:22.360 It's arrow knock.

00:44:23.340 Yeah, you're not knocking on the door, right?

00:44:25.100 Yep.

00:44:25.680 So N-O-C-K-O-N-T-V.

00:44:28.220 You can find me on Instagram or on Facebook.

00:44:31.620 Otherwise, knockonarchery.com is my website.

00:44:36.140 Or knockonarchery is the YouTube channel, which has a lot of great information there.

00:44:41.440 Right on.

00:44:42.140 We'll link it all up.

00:44:42.860 And we'll link the video you talked about earlier with how you got into archery so the

00:44:46.840 guys can check that out as well.

00:44:49.180 Well, Dudley, I got to tell you, man, you've made an impact in my life.

00:44:51.340 I know we don't know each other very well yet, but you have made an impact and of course

00:44:55.080 allowed me to have an experience that was rewarding, fulfilling for me.

00:44:58.020 The thing that I took away from this conversation and what I admire about you is your level of

00:45:03.280 dedication and certainly your desire to become a master at your craft.

00:45:07.060 And I think there's a lot to be said for that.

00:45:08.400 So I appreciate you and the way you show up and your time joining us today.

00:45:12.180 All right, brother.

00:45:13.060 Well, I appreciate it.

00:45:13.820 Thank you so much.

00:45:16.200 There it is, guys.

00:45:17.040 A powerful conversation with my friend, John Dudley on using bow hunting.

00:45:20.340 And it doesn't have to be bow hunting, but bow hunting is a perfect example of a way to

00:45:25.740 develop more self-mastery in your life.

00:45:27.800 Like I said, I've learned a ton from him on my own journey to be a better archer.

00:45:32.060 And I know you will as well.

00:45:33.720 So make sure you reach out to him and I tell us what you think of this conversation.

00:45:36.880 And more importantly than that, tell us what you're going to be doing different or what

00:45:40.240 your takeaway was.

00:45:41.160 That's really important.

00:45:42.420 We want to go from the knowledge that we have to actually applying that information in

00:45:46.220 our lives to make our lives and those that we care about their lives better as well.

00:45:50.100 You can hit us up on Instagram.

00:45:51.700 Both of us are active on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, wherever you are.

00:45:54.980 You can drop us a line.

00:45:55.840 Let us know what you thought of the conversation.

00:45:57.640 And we'll be looking forward to seeing what you had to say.

00:45:59.720 Now, as I sign out today, make sure that you guys get registered for our meetup in Nashville.

00:46:04.420 You will not be disappointed and you'll be inspired.

00:46:07.360 You'll be inspired to do the things that I believe are required to make this year your

00:46:11.560 best one yet.

00:46:12.400 A lot of people are talking about how great 2018 is going to be, but the only ones who

00:46:16.580 are going to make 2018 great are the ones that are going to do something about it.

00:46:20.480 And we're going to help you by giving you some tools and guidance and resources and direction

00:46:24.000 and the accountability that you'll get when you join us in Nashville, January 26th and 27th

00:46:29.420 of this year, 2018, you can head to orderofman.com slash Nashville again, orderofman.com slash

00:46:35.080 Nashville.

00:46:35.840 I hope to see you guys there until next week, gentlemen, take action and become the man you

00:46:40.200 are meant to be.

00:46:42.200 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

00:46:45.080 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

00:46:49.200 We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

00:46:59.420 You're ready to join the order of man podcast.

Order of Man - January 09, 2018

147： Self-Mastery through Bow Hunting ｜ John "Dud" Dudley

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