Order of Man - 152： The Future of Higher Education ｜ Adam Braun

00:00:00.000 Higher education seems to be quite the topic these days with the rising cost of education

00:00:04.840 and the debate as to whether or not students are learning applicable skills.

00:00:08.480 It seems inevitable that we'll see a shift away from traditional higher education to

00:00:12.600 something more practical and affordable.

00:00:15.500 I've been an advocate for trade schools and apprenticeship programs for some time now,

00:00:19.700 but my guest today gives us yet another option to the challenge

00:00:22.700 our young men and women face on the road to higher education.

00:00:26.020 My guest today is Adam Braun, the founder of MissionU, which is a one-year higher educational

00:00:31.200 program that gives students the skills and experiences to succeed after college.

00:00:35.840 Today, we talk about the rising cost of education and what can be done about it,

00:00:39.600 how educational institutions and students can and should work together towards solutions,

00:00:44.500 bringing back the human element to schooling and the future of higher education.

00:00:48.860 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest.

00:00:51.640 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:54.340 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:59.060 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:01:04.100 This is your life. This is who you are.

00:01:06.620 This is who you will become at the end of the day.

00:01:09.540 And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:14.020 Gentlemen, what is going on today?

00:01:15.280 My name is Ryan Mickler and I am the host and the founder of Order of Man.

00:01:19.460 If this is your first time tuning in today, guys, we're all about being better men,

00:01:24.500 better fathers, better husbands, better business owners, better community leaders,

00:01:28.660 you name it, better men.

00:01:29.720 We are interviewing the world's most successful men, guys like Jocko Willink,

00:01:34.120 Lewis Howes, Andy Frisilla, Grant Cardone, Tim Kennedy.

00:01:38.040 We've had so many, so many amazing guests.

00:01:40.760 And of course, we'll continue to bring those guests on.

00:01:42.940 We're going to work to extract their wisdom and education and then bring that directly to you.

00:01:48.000 Now, guys, as we get into this thing, I only have two very quick announcements.

00:01:52.440 First and foremost, I want to thank and introduce you to our show sponsor, Health IQ.

00:01:57.520 I've been talking about them for a while.

00:01:59.340 I was an insurance agent in another life, so I understand how expensive life insurance can be.

00:02:05.060 But what I like about Health IQ is they're taking the data, they're taking the science,

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00:02:44.280 So if you're interested, you want to get a free quote,

00:02:46.100 you want to see if they're going to be able to save you money based on your health,

00:02:49.040 you can head to healthiq.com slash order of man.

00:02:52.900 That's healthiq.com slash order of man.

00:02:55.980 Now, the second announcement that I want to make is the book Sovereignty,

00:02:59.660 the battle for the hearts and minds of men.

00:03:01.320 I cannot believe how well this is going.

00:03:04.720 I knew that it would do well.

00:03:06.220 I had faith that it would do well because it's a message I think more men want and need to hear.

00:03:11.120 And I knew you guys would support it, but it has gone really, really well.

00:03:14.920 Number one in multiple categories from fatherhood to gender studies,

00:03:19.380 which is actually a pretty interesting category.

00:03:21.440 If you were to take a look at it, family resolution and conflict, something like that.

00:03:25.680 And then we also reached number 35, I believe number 35 in all of self-help.

00:03:31.200 And if you think about that on Amazon, there's tens, if not hundreds of thousands of books.

00:03:35.580 And we hit as high as number 35.

00:03:37.900 So I want to thank you.

00:03:39.100 If you picked up a copy of Sovereignty, the battle for the hearts and minds of men.

00:03:42.500 If you have not done that yet, you can go to order of man.com slash sovereignty,

00:03:47.760 order of man.com slash sovereignty, pick up a copy there.

00:03:50.320 And please, if you would, I don't ask for a whole lot, but I really, really need you to leave reviews.

00:03:56.180 I think as of this recording, we've got right around 60 reviews and I would love to double that.

00:04:02.100 So if you've read the book or a healthy portion of it, we want it to be in integrity.

00:04:05.700 Of course, then please head over to Amazon, sign in, leave your review,

00:04:10.360 and that will help us get the word out and the visibility and promote that book even a little

00:04:14.920 better.

00:04:15.140 So appreciate that.

00:04:16.420 Again, it's order of man.com slash sovereignty.

00:04:19.180 Now guys, with that said, let's just get right into the show.

00:04:21.780 My guest today is Adam Braun.

00:04:23.940 He is a New York times bestselling author.

00:04:26.240 He's an entrepreneur.

00:04:27.140 He's a speaker.

00:04:28.360 You might know the name and have heard of at least one of his organizations, pencils of

00:04:33.160 promise.

00:04:33.720 This is a for purpose.

00:04:35.260 And we'll talk a little bit about what that means throughout the interview, but a for purpose

00:04:39.080 organization, and they are dedicated to building schools around the world.

00:04:43.220 In fact, I was looking at the numbers.

00:04:44.700 They've built over 400 schools across the planet now, but what's even more impressive or just

00:04:51.140 is impressive is that he took $25 when he left a previous company and he turned this into

00:04:57.580 this organization that has generated over $30 million in funds raised.

00:05:05.140 And you should see some of the people that are behind him, supporting him.

00:05:08.400 So I'm excited to talk with them.

00:05:09.860 But since then he has turned his attention to some of the challenges surrounding higher

00:05:14.400 education, like I mentioned earlier, and has dedicated himself to creating solutions to

00:05:19.340 what I would consider a pretty big problem in society today.

00:05:23.080 You're going to hear the passion, the excitement in his voice as Adam and I have a conversation.

00:05:27.820 Everyone would agree needs to be had about where to go with our post-secondary education.

00:05:33.300 Adam, what's going on, man?

00:05:34.280 Thanks for joining me on the show today.

00:05:36.000 Oh, my pleasure.

00:05:36.640 Happy to be here.

00:05:37.340 I've been looking forward to this conversation because if you look around in society in general,

00:05:41.600 I think higher education is a huge, huge issue from the rising cost of education to from my

00:05:48.820 experience, and you probably have more knowledge on this than I do, the lack of actual job experience

00:05:54.740 when these people get out into the workforce.

00:05:56.460 So tell me why you decided to address some of these issues and then we'll work back into

00:06:00.580 how you're doing it.

00:06:02.180 Sure.

00:06:02.860 You know, I spent about a decade focused on education, primarily internationally, and in

00:06:07.540 growing Pencils of Promise, what I previously founded, I spent a ton of time on college

00:06:11.800 campuses, you know, speaking to students of all ages and all backgrounds to grow that

00:06:16.720 movement.

00:06:17.460 And while I was talking about the value of supporting children internationally, there

00:06:20.940 was always a subset of individuals that would come up to me after a talk or during Q&A and

00:06:25.200 say, you know, that sounds really great, but I can't even think about that because I

00:06:28.620 have so much student debt and I haven't learned any of the practical skills that are actually

00:06:32.540 going to help me get the great job that I came here to eventually land in.

00:06:36.580 And everything became very personal for me when I met my wife.

00:06:39.840 My wife, by the time that I met her, was in six figures of student debt, not positioned

00:06:45.000 whatsoever for the life and career that she aspired towards.

00:06:48.120 Before we got married, I said, you should actually consider declaring bankruptcy.

00:06:51.320 I mean, I know it sounds crazy, but given how much debt you have and the fact that, you

00:06:55.080 know, you really didn't benefit from it in almost any meaningful way, you've certainly

00:06:58.520 been harmed more than you've helped given the amount that you're paying every month.

00:07:02.140 You know, you should at least consider this as an option because I have good credit and

00:07:05.740 then we can start a life together without this huge burden.

00:07:09.020 And she told me that student debt is the only debt in the United States that cannot be discharged

00:07:13.060 through bankruptcy.

00:07:14.000 And I remember thinking, if that's the case, one, that can't be.

00:07:18.040 But if it is, this is a much larger problem than I realized.

00:07:21.060 And I did my research.

00:07:22.080 And of course, she was right.

00:07:23.680 And, you know, the more I dug into it, I mean, three quarters of all college grads believe

00:07:27.800 their universities fail to prepare them for work in the real world.

00:07:31.340 You know, the average freshman today is going to complete school if they complete school

00:07:35.160 and graduate with, on average, $50,000 of debt if they're a borrower and 70% are borrowers.

00:07:40.460 So, you know, we have this huge systemic issue.

00:07:43.440 And as an entrepreneur, I like going after big, big challenges.

00:07:47.000 And, you know, I have two little kids at home.

00:07:48.420 And so this actually affects me and the well-being of my children in the future.

00:07:52.820 I want a pathway for them and others to be able to have a clear path to their future.

00:07:57.880 And in particular, one that doesn't position people with just massive crushing debt.

00:08:02.380 And that's really what I think catalyzed the creation of Mission U.

00:08:06.200 So you have a bachelor's degree in economics, if I understand that correctly.

00:08:10.600 Yeah.

00:08:10.840 So I have a BA.

00:08:12.340 I actually did a couple of majors.

00:08:14.260 Brown, where I went to school, has no core curriculum.

00:08:16.700 They let you do everything pass fail if you want.

00:08:18.440 They're pretty open-minded about how you design your major.

00:08:21.720 So I did a few.

00:08:22.380 But one of them was business economics.

00:08:24.820 This is interesting because I think a lot of people, I'll give you an example.

00:08:28.240 I don't want to say I beat up formal higher education.

00:08:32.020 I think there's a time and a place for it.

00:08:33.980 But at the other side of it, I also believe that just like you, there's not any real-world

00:08:38.480 application to a lot of what these kids are being taught and learned.

00:08:42.420 Right.

00:08:42.780 But that being said, I don't have a degree.

00:08:44.320 I went to about a semester of college.

00:08:46.000 And so it's easy for me to say that versus you, who has not only a degree, a higher education

00:08:52.320 degree, but you also have some real-world experience.

00:08:55.200 And so I think that combination of seeing both sides probably positions you in a pretty

00:08:59.840 unique seat to be able to address this effectively.

00:09:03.360 Yeah.

00:09:03.540 I mean, the reality of my situation is, you know, I went to a top-tier school.

00:09:08.300 I graduated with a really strong major.

00:09:10.640 I remember entering my job in the first few weeks, I felt like a total imposter.

00:09:15.340 I had this feeling for the first time in my life of, one, am I not smart enough to do

00:09:19.740 this job?

00:09:20.420 Two, do they know how little I know?

00:09:23.040 I was just so woefully unprepared for the needs of that job, which was working at Bain and

00:09:29.880 company as a management consultant.

00:09:31.440 The core parts of that job are, one, really effective business communication.

00:09:35.560 Can you write emails effectively?

00:09:36.980 Can you give presentations, design keynotes?

00:09:39.800 And then a lot of the work was also business analytics.

00:09:42.960 And so, you know, can you use Excel to build a model to get to a decisive set of insights

00:09:48.160 that can help your company that you're working with make better decisions?

00:09:51.640 And I had barely, barely opened Excel.

00:09:54.820 In four years of college, you know, business economics is my major.

00:09:59.120 I had taken a full course on statistics.

00:10:01.660 And I was so unprepared.

00:10:03.720 And I actually recently went back and gave a talk to all the first, second, and third

00:10:07.620 years at the Bain, New York office.

00:10:09.640 And, you know, these are students that went to top-tier schools and they're top performers.

00:10:13.460 And I said, how many of you felt that you were really well prepared for this job when

00:10:17.220 you entered?

00:10:17.740 And not a single hand went up.

00:10:19.140 And so, you know, as much as I think I benefited from my college experience, one, most of the

00:10:24.460 benefit was in the relationships that I built.

00:10:26.540 It was really what happened outside of the classroom.

00:10:29.320 Two, college looked very different.

00:10:31.020 I entered as a freshman about 15 years ago.

00:10:33.780 And the cost structure of college has exploded in particular in the last 10 years.

00:10:38.120 And so that has a huge implication.

00:10:40.120 And the third part is both my parents grew up in poverty, worked really, really hard to get

00:10:43.700 themselves out of poverty, and essentially left my siblings and I in a position, which

00:10:48.640 they told us from a very young age, that, look, we're going to have four years of college

00:10:52.500 saved up for you, and then you're on your own.

00:10:54.740 So we believe in the value of education, which is what I think parents have told their children

00:10:58.720 for generations.

00:10:59.980 And they enabled myself to be able to graduate without debt.

00:11:03.820 And I kind of walked through the world with a sense of, I would say, naivete, not recognizing

00:11:09.260 how crushing debt is to your prospects going forward.

00:11:12.480 It really wasn't until I saw my wife's situation that I realized, oh my gosh, she's actually 1.00

00:11:17.080 the norm and I'm the exception rather than vice versa.

00:11:20.360 Sure.

00:11:20.640 Yeah.

00:11:21.020 It's always interesting.

00:11:22.100 I think this is something that even universities recognize, the real world application.

00:11:26.560 It's always interesting to see somebody give a commencement speech who either does not

00:11:31.060 have a degree or is not utilizing the degree in which they have.

00:11:35.440 It's kind of a fascinating thing.

00:11:36.720 And I think it's a testament to the fact that even universities recognize that there's so

00:11:40.060 much more than just this formal education.

00:11:42.760 You talked about the cost of education going up, specifically over the past 15 years.

00:11:47.820 Why is that?

00:11:48.740 Why do we see that?

00:11:49.780 Yeah, there's a number of factors.

00:11:51.520 So it's kind of this perfect storm.

00:11:53.280 The first is that the desire for College for All, which was kind of launched in the 1960s,

00:11:58.920 is now coming to fruition.

00:11:59.800 So we have many, many millions of folks that go to college every year.

00:12:03.400 That said, the last five years are the first time in the 400-year history of college in

00:12:07.640 the United States that we've seen declining enrollment.

00:12:10.400 So we're seeing a pullback because people just aren't seeing the value.

00:12:13.260 One is that we kind of pushed everyone to go to college.

00:12:16.160 But when we made that proclamation in the 60s, government was actually subsidizing a huge

00:12:20.820 amount of the cost of college so that it wasn't a large number for an individual.

00:12:25.320 They could kind of work their way simultaneously while studying and end up without much debt

00:12:29.680 if any at all.

00:12:30.900 But that government support has pretty much dried up altogether.

00:12:33.900 States put very little funding relative to what they used to.

00:12:36.920 From what I see, it looks like the majority of funding typically goes to minorities.

00:12:41.680 From what I see, is that accurate?

00:12:43.720 I don't know the exact numbers.

00:12:45.500 I mean, I wouldn't say it's necessarily minorities.

00:12:47.220 I would say it's folks from lower and working class income families, you know, end up getting 0.88

00:12:52.020 most of the financial aid.

00:12:53.200 Part of the challenge, actually, for a lot of individuals is that if you're affluent enough

00:12:57.600 to pay the full ride, then obviously you can do so.

00:13:00.800 There's a good amount of financial aid for those that are at, you know, the lowest rung

00:13:05.120 on the economic ladder.

00:13:06.520 And if you're in that kind of middle working class family where you don't qualify for things

00:13:10.760 like Pell Grants, then you're in a lot of trouble because you're going to have to bear

00:13:14.680 this huge number, which is where I fell when I was going through school.

00:13:18.340 Yeah.

00:13:18.600 Yeah.

00:13:18.900 So, you know, if your parents combine to call it, make over 50, $60,000, then you're going

00:13:24.460 to get hit with a really big number and have to take out these huge loans.

00:13:27.160 You know, a second reason is that colleges have become these all encompassing service

00:13:32.160 providers.

00:13:32.680 A lot of the increased costs is actually on the administrative side because, you know, it

00:13:36.760 started out as we're going to do instruction and teach you.

00:13:38.960 Now it's, you know, it's your housing, it's your food program, it's your mental services,

00:13:43.080 it's your sports and intramurals.

00:13:45.140 It's so much that they just pack on a lot of costs.

00:13:48.420 And then the final part is just, there's been an arms race in the last decade for these 0.98

00:13:51.860 rankings.

00:13:52.860 And so you have schools building like huge libraries, but also climbing gyms and lazy

00:13:58.240 pools and floating rivers and all of that eventually gets passed on to a student and their family.

00:14:04.000 Right.

00:14:04.540 So let's shift gears here a little bit because one of the things that I've seen, it's a reoccurring

00:14:09.000 trend in your life is this idea of for purpose, you know, pencils of promise, nonprofit for

00:14:15.300 purpose.

00:14:16.020 This is the way I understand it, a for profit type business entity, but it's also a for

00:14:21.640 purpose business as well.

00:14:23.900 So explain to me what that means and how that actually works.

00:14:28.220 Sure.

00:14:28.860 The way that I've always thought about building any type of business or organization is that,

00:14:33.240 you know, you shouldn't be guided by the tax structure that you set it up as, right?

00:14:37.360 A 501c3 not for profit, a C Corp or an S Corp or an LLC, whatever it looks like on the

00:14:42.200 for profit side.

00:14:43.200 What it should really be driven by is the purpose, is the mission.

00:14:46.320 And so, you know, with pencil of promise, it was incorporated as a 501c3 not for profit,

00:14:51.040 but we always were driven with the DNA of a high growth startup for profit kind of business

00:14:56.420 acumen approach.

00:14:57.520 And that enabled us to grow from $25 to raise more than $50 million.

00:15:02.100 We've broken ground on over 400 schools around the world.

00:15:04.760 This year, we should break ground in our 500 school.

00:15:07.480 And it was all with this for purpose approach.

00:15:10.240 And so when it came time to building Mission U, I realized, you know, I want to be able

00:15:14.220 to raise a lot more capital to go after this problem because it's a really big problem and

00:15:18.360 it warrants a lot of capital.

00:15:20.280 And the best way to do that is to be able to tell investors that they can get some type

00:15:24.680 of return, right?

00:15:25.520 They're a for profit structure.

00:15:26.840 But fortunately, we now have a structure called a benefit corporation, also known as a B Corp.

00:15:32.200 And as a public benefit corporation, which is how Mission U has been incorporated from

00:15:36.620 day one, it enables us to go out and raise traditional investor capital, but at our core

00:15:42.460 still serve a social mission.

00:15:44.020 So in, you know, the actual bylaws of the company, we're able to make choices that benefit

00:15:49.980 our social mission above our financial outcomes.

00:15:53.140 Literally, you can sacrifice your financial well-being and not return greater capital to

00:15:57.680 shareholders.

00:15:58.020 If you want to make a choice that's in the best interest of society and the mission that

00:16:02.540 you're seeking to tackle.

00:16:04.060 And so that's how we structured Mission U from the very beginning.

00:16:07.920 I think that it served us really well.

00:16:10.080 This is a really interesting business model and we'll get into this.

00:16:12.560 But at the end of the day, basically, it's a tuition-free one-year program.

00:16:17.320 Actually, let me back up.

00:16:18.700 Let me have you explain it in your way of explaining it before I butcher this thing.

00:16:23.060 And then we'll talk about and we'll go two different ways with this thing.

00:16:25.500 Sure.

00:16:26.420 Mission U is a one-year higher education program that is entirely debt-free.

00:16:30.760 And so what that means is that rather than you taking out a huge loan or paying us a bunch

00:16:35.540 of money up front, we're entirely dedicated to extraordinary student outcomes.

00:16:40.360 And so we're willing to not take any tuition whatsoever up front from our students.

00:16:44.960 They pay no tuition at all throughout the year-long program.

00:16:47.800 And instead, what they commit to is an income share agreement.

00:16:52.040 And what that looks like is 15%, one-five, of income for 36 months, so three years, is

00:16:59.020 shared back with Mission U, but only when a student is making $50,000 or more.

00:17:04.000 And there's a time commitment around it.

00:17:06.160 And so if you're not making $50,000 or more after you leave our program, you don't pay us

00:17:11.360 a single dollar.

00:17:11.980 And if you hit a certain threshold of time and you're still not making $50,000, then actually

00:17:17.080 the contract will end.

00:17:18.560 And you will have paid us $0.

00:17:19.960 You'll have zero obligation to us going forward.

00:17:21.840 So the entire idea is to ensure that Mission U is not successful unless our students are

00:17:26.520 successful.

00:17:27.280 Putting that discipline on every single part of the organization from the beginning and

00:17:32.320 having that clear understanding with our students that you don't pay us a dollar until

00:17:36.400 you reach success, I think, creates tremendous alignment.

00:17:39.000 And right now, 91% of all college students, when asked at their freshman year, why are

00:17:44.440 you going to school?

00:17:45.060 The answer is to get a better job.

00:17:46.600 But very, very few college professors or college administrators will say, hey, my primary

00:17:50.900 responsibility is to help somebody get a great job.

00:17:53.260 And so we decided to design and build out an institution that really would focus on helping

00:17:58.980 somebody thrive, both in their life and career, because what you find when you do the research

00:18:02.980 is giving somebody hard technical skills might help them get a foot in the door.

00:18:07.760 They might land a job, but it doesn't actually help them thrive throughout their career unless

00:18:11.700 it's coupled with soft skills and holistic self-development.

00:18:14.900 Some of the things that we actually think of and attribute to a liberal arts education.

00:18:19.360 But liberal arts today has just become a series of general education classes.

00:18:22.760 It's not actually the transformative education oftentimes that leads to what we actually value,

00:18:28.700 which is critical thinking and reasoning and interpersonal skills and a clear compass on where you want

00:18:33.940 to point your life and why. And so that's really what our year-long program is focused on.

00:18:38.500 And the short time that it's been running, it's been incredible to see the results.

00:18:42.340 You know, we polled our students at the end of the week. We do trimesters. At the end of their

00:18:45.620 first trimester, we said, one to 10, how likely are you to recommend this to another person?

00:18:49.980 And the average score was a 9.2.

00:18:52.020 I've heard students say to me that actually have bachelor's degrees. Some of our students already

00:18:55.900 have a full BA and still wanted to come and do Mission U because they're not in the place that they want

00:18:59.840 to be at in their life and career. And, you know, we had a student, I said, how's it going? He said,

00:19:03.640 look, I've learned more in my first three months at Mission U than in all four years of my bachelor

00:19:08.340 degree combined. So it's been really amazing so far. I like this too, because, and you talked about

00:19:14.120 alignment. I call it a win-win and I'm sure everybody who's listening to this is familiar with

00:19:18.440 this, but at the end of the day, it's in your best interest to help align these students with a job.

00:19:24.640 So I imagine that you on the backend as a team are also going out into the workforce

00:19:29.360 and advocating for Mission U and for the students. Is that right?

00:19:34.720 Oh yeah. So, you know, we have an entire department internally that is exclusively focused on building

00:19:39.960 clear pathways for our students into companies. So literally this morning, I got an email that said,

00:19:44.760 Hey, we have two companies that want to hire our students. They're interested in setting up

00:19:48.420 interviews, which students do we want to put in front of them? And then we obviously send a

00:19:51.920 message to our students to say, Hey, here's the opportunities. Here's the companies. Here's what

00:19:55.820 the roles look like. If you're interested in essentially jumping to the front of the line

00:19:59.500 to interview, please opt in. And so, you know, we've set up a series of employer partnerships.

00:20:04.300 I mean, before we were ever recruiting students, we were actually in conversation with companies.

00:20:09.640 That's really where we started because we said, you can't really help somebody get a job unless

00:20:14.040 you've actually understood what that company is looking for. And so we built out these employer

00:20:18.640 partnerships. Our partners include companies like Spotify, Lyft, Uber, Warby Parker, Casper,

00:20:25.180 Harry's, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, down the line, or just top tier great companies.

00:20:29.320 And they do three things with us. The first is they really meaningfully advise us on our curriculum.

00:20:33.360 So it's constantly incalibrated against the needs of industry leaders. The second thing is we create

00:20:38.420 content and experiences. So students oftentimes go on site at some of our partner companies to get a

00:20:44.660 tour, meet some of the leadership. They have guest speakers essentially on a weekly basis that are

00:20:49.800 coming in and addressing them and helping them understand how to navigate the job market and end up

00:20:55.140 with the career of their dreams. And then they also get early preferred access to hire our students

00:21:00.660 because it's this extraordinary pipeline of just really ambitious, motivated, great talent. And our year

00:21:07.540 really well trains them to hit the ground running at great companies.

00:21:11.000 How many students do you guys currently have?

00:21:14.080 So all cohorts at MissionU are targeted around 25 students. We really, really deeply believe in the

00:21:19.440 small group-based cohort model. You build deep, deep relationships. These are going to be your

00:21:24.580 friends for life, much in the way that we think of our college buddies. We also think that learning

00:21:29.520 and accountability best happens in small groups. And the way that MissionU learning is delivered is

00:21:35.020 through a blend of online and in-person. But our online learning is not pre-recorded lectures.

00:21:40.080 What we see is less than 5% of people ever complete a course that's a pre-recorded lecture.

00:21:44.800 This is live. You're behind your computer in a small group over a virtual classroom with a

00:21:49.460 world-class instructor who's most likely worked at a top-tier company in the last year and has joined

00:21:54.340 us to teach. And then at least on a bi-weekly basis, at minimum every other week, you're coming

00:21:59.760 together in person for sessions with your cohort. And so we opened up admissions for our first cohort

00:22:05.020 cohort. Back in March of 2017, we had almost 5,000 applicants for that first cohort. And we took a

00:22:12.440 little bit closer to 30 students. That's on the high 20s. In our first cohort, we opened up admissions

00:22:17.100 for January. After that, given the demand that we saw, that cohort is a little bit smaller. It's closer

00:22:22.500 to 20. And so right now we have almost 50 students currently in the program. And the plan is to take on

00:22:28.440 essentially hundreds in the coming year, grow into high hundreds from there, and then into the thousands

00:22:33.400 in 2020 and beyond.

00:22:35.780 So let me make sure I understand this. I want to wrap my head around this. So is a cohort organized

00:22:39.980 regionally where you do have these live-type classroom environment-type settings, or is it

00:22:45.000 worldwide?

00:22:46.060 Great question. So because we're bringing our students together every other week, and they develop very,

00:22:50.900 very close relationships, and we want them also close to where top-tier employers are, they are

00:22:55.780 organized regionally. So the requirement is that once you get into Mission U based on the cohort

00:23:02.100 city that you're applying for, you commit to live within 50 miles, 5-0, of your cohort city. So that

00:23:08.600 enables flexibility. Not everyone can afford to live in, you know, a downtown environment. Some people

00:23:13.440 want it, some people don't. But with the 50-mile radius, it enables you to work on the budget that you

00:23:18.740 have for your housing. You can also work a part-time job up to 20 hours a week when you're in the

00:23:22.840 program. And so myself and our team, we're all based in the San Francisco Bay Area. That's where

00:23:27.800 our first few cohorts are. But we anticipate launching at least one, if not multiple, additional

00:23:33.060 cities. In 2018, we're targeting one in particular on the East Coast for this fall. And we'll also add

00:23:39.640 in additional majors over time. So right now we have one major. That major is data analytics and

00:23:44.840 business intelligence. A super high-growth, rapidly emerging field. McKinsey predicts 1.8 million

00:23:51.160 unfilled roles that will require these skills. By 2018, the average data analyst makes $90,000

00:23:57.080 in the Bay Area. It's a really high-demand job. And the way that our year looks is the first trimester

00:24:02.520 is essentially your business foundation. It can be applied to almost any career path,

00:24:07.120 a mix of both hard, soft, and technical skills. Your second trimester is a deep dive into that major.

00:24:13.040 So right now, obviously, that's data analytics and business intelligence. Over time, we'll add on many

00:24:17.440 more. And then your third trimester is real-world work experience. And so our students go out,

00:24:22.320 they're considered fellows by the end of the second trimester, and they pursue opportunities,

00:24:27.120 whether those are internships or most of the time what we're looking at is contract to hire

00:24:31.640 opportunities. So we'll help place them directly at a company. That company has a chance to trial them

00:24:36.900 out. They have a chance to trial out that company. Assuming it works out at the end of that three months,

00:24:41.280 they go and they work for that company directly. And if it doesn't work out at that specific

00:24:44.980 company, at the very least, they have the ability to demonstrate real proficiency and competency

00:24:50.420 in a job that they've worked in the marketplace for a great company. They have a set of references

00:24:55.780 that they can use when applying for the job that they want to take on at perhaps a separate company

00:25:01.640 if it didn't work out at the original one. And they complete the year not only with the skills,

00:25:05.800 but actually the experience as well to really thrive.

00:25:08.160 Have you got any pushback from any formal education institutions? I don't know if you

00:25:14.580 have yet. I imagine that you will if you have not yet.

00:25:16.920 Yeah. I mean, it was interesting. You know, when we launched the way that the Clayton Christensen

00:25:21.640 Institute at Harvard wrote about it in their profile of us is that we sent the higher education world

00:25:26.800 into a frenzy.

00:25:27.860 Which is a good thing.

00:25:29.200 Yeah. You know, if you haven't stood for something, then you'll fall for anything.

00:25:32.260 Sure. You know, we came out with a very different model from how most higher education institutions

00:25:37.580 operate. Right. We're we're shorter. We're a year versus four to six. So we're shorter,

00:25:42.420 we're faster and we're we're cheaper. Right. And we also believe that we've designed a curriculum

00:25:46.900 that is far more relevant and practical and valuable ultimately for our students. And we work

00:25:54.300 really closely with companies. All of these things are not what traditional academics have done

00:25:59.780 historically when it comes to higher education. But we believe that we're the right fit for a lot

00:26:04.960 of students in this country. Not everybody, but a lot. And so, you know, there was a I believe he

00:26:10.080 was a poetry professor from a college in Virginia that just absolutely ripped us. And, you know,

00:26:15.560 I said this is this is not what college and higher education is supposed to focus on. And, you know,

00:26:21.400 I think, again, that I'm willing to respect and hear out all opinions. But, you know, when you've

00:26:27.080 spent time at colleges all across this country and you've heard the pain and the challenge that

00:26:31.660 families have gone through and you speak to folks that have come out the other end or considering

00:26:36.220 entering it, you recognize very clearly that there is a real demand. There's a real need for outcomes

00:26:42.200 based education and education that positions somebody for success and gives them economic security

00:26:48.020 rather than stripping them of that. And so, yeah, I mean, it's been fascinating. The good news is the

00:26:53.820 vast majority of people in higher education have been incredibly supportive. But of course,

00:26:58.520 we're going to have our naysayers. And if we didn't, then we wouldn't be doing something right.

00:27:04.040 Guys, I am stoked. I'm so excited to announce the dates for our third order of man uprising.

00:27:08.520 If you are not familiar with what this is, it is a three and a half day immersive experience.

00:27:13.820 I like to say it's designed to make you as a man bleed, sweat and cry. And let's be honest,

00:27:18.700 I think that's probably something that most men haven't done for too long.

00:27:22.080 All you guys need to do is get to Las Vegas, get to Las Vegas. We'll pick you up,

00:27:27.340 ship you to the mountains of Southern Utah, put you through some of the most physically,

00:27:31.080 mentally and emotionally challenging scenarios that we can conjure up in our minds. But all of

00:27:35.700 this at the end of the day is designed to give you the tools and the guidance and the framework

00:27:39.680 and the direction, quite honestly, to take your life to a whole new level on the home front,

00:27:44.040 the business front, the physical front, whatever it is that you're wanting to work towards for 2018.

00:27:48.820 Guys, if you are interested in joining us at the uprising, the third uprising, the dates are May

00:27:54.360 3rd through 6th, May 3rd through 6th, 2018. You can head to order of man.com slash uprising to get

00:28:00.240 more information again, May 3rd through the 6th, 2018. You get to Las Vegas. We'll take care of the

00:28:05.060 rest. Get the details at order of man.com slash uprising. I hope to see you there. Now let's wrap up

00:28:10.780 the conversation with Adam. I want to talk with you about the model. Has anything like this ever

00:28:18.460 been tried or attempted? I mean, trade school in a way, in a small percentage goes this way because

00:28:24.180 I think it's a little bit more applicable, shorter timeframes, but certainly still has the pay model

00:28:29.400 that a traditional university would have. So I think that there are plenty of programs that touch

00:28:35.420 on some of the things that we do, but there's no one that's come out and designed, you know, a program

00:28:40.520 that looks the way that ours looks today. My hope is many replicate it and that, you know, 10 years

00:28:45.300 from now, you say, of course, you know, I see this all over the place. Mission U was the first and is

00:28:49.160 still the leader to this day. But for example, the fact that we do an income share agreement rather

00:28:53.920 than upfront, you know, kind of massive tuition that puts people in debt. Purdue University has actually

00:28:58.700 been doing that for a few years now. So they offer an income share agreement. It's a program that they

00:29:03.120 piloted. They saw huge success, you know, a ton of students wanted to opt in. So they've been

00:29:07.460 expanding it every year since. So Purdue, you know, we see this on the traditional side. You know,

00:29:12.320 I think that kind of vocational focus and helping somebody get to a place of career success is

00:29:18.780 something that coding boot camps have done really well. They tend to be three month programs. They

00:29:24.280 oftentimes do charge up front. But I think as you look at the growth and maturity of the boot camp space

00:29:29.800 that's been around for five, six years, one of the pieces of feedback that you often hear is, well,

00:29:34.500 you know, they have the technical skills, but they don't have that holistic, well-rounded

00:29:38.160 self-awareness and all these pieces that can help them get to a place where they're not just

00:29:41.960 frontline coders, but can ascend to management. And that's part of why we really designed the

00:29:47.960 program to be a year long and to focus tremendously on the soft skills and this holistic self-development

00:29:53.580 that's really critical that oftentimes doesn't happen in purely vocational education.

00:29:57.980 So, you know, we kind of sit at the intersection of the liberal arts and something that's more,

00:30:02.880 you know, skill oriented. And so, yeah, I mean, there's pieces of what we do that exist in the

00:30:07.700 marketplace today, but there's no one that's doing it exactly how we do it.

00:30:12.140 So from a business perspective, how do you then go out to investors and sell them on an untested model?

00:30:20.500 I'm sure that there's a lot of social capital behind this. Obviously you've proven yourself to be

00:30:24.940 effective when it comes to starting these for purpose type businesses. Talk to me about that

00:30:29.500 process.

00:30:29.840 Sure. You know, well, one thing that I've certainly seen and experienced is that when a person invests

00:30:35.460 capital in a not-for-profit or for-profit, et cetera, you can describe the structure of the

00:30:40.940 organization. You need to describe the market, all of these pieces that people, you know, when they

00:30:45.480 research what to put in a pitch deck will come across. But at the end of the day, the vast majority of

00:30:50.940 how that decision is made is on the individual sitting in front of them. I think the majority

00:30:55.880 of seasoned and experienced investors are really, you know, the phrase is betting on the jockey.

00:31:01.460 Sure. Of course.

00:31:02.380 Making a decision in the back of your mind of, is this entrepreneur capable of executing on this

00:31:07.820 vision that they're explaining to me? And most importantly, how do they iterate when it doesn't

00:31:12.760 all go perfectly? Because, you know, as a CEO, you're making 80 to 150 micro decisions on any given day.

00:31:20.440 And then you're making a couple of really big strategic ones throughout your week and throughout

00:31:24.640 the month and throughout the year. And those will have lasting ramifications on the well-being of

00:31:28.960 your organization. And so, fortunately, you know, when people look at my track record, they see

00:31:33.880 Pencils of Promise started with nothing on 25 bucks on the side of a job. And they see, you know,

00:31:39.560 this massive global organization. This year, we should be educating about, you know, the target is

00:31:43.840 close to, actually, it's in excess of 100,000 students. We're currently at about 75,000 students a day.

00:31:49.120 We should have about 100,000 in our programs. We operate in multiple countries of more than 100

00:31:54.320 full-time staff. And when people look at my background, as well as the background of my

00:31:58.520 co-founder, Mike, who leads all curriculum and technology, and that's where he's one of the

00:32:03.140 nation's experts, they say these are the people that can pull off something of this size and scale

00:32:08.240 and vision. And then I think there's a lot of investors out there that have deployed their

00:32:13.240 capital, put it into businesses that have perhaps made them a lot of money, but don't actually move

00:32:18.440 the world forward in a meaningfully positive way, right? And I'm sure we can think of many businesses

00:32:23.260 that do that. Fortunately, you know, I was able to round up just an extraordinary group of investors

00:32:27.840 who had a deep belief in the value of what we were bringing to society, that they wanted to use their

00:32:33.420 capital to make a lasting positive impact on the well-being of others. And they got behind us in

00:32:39.160 really big ways. You talk about investors wanting to know how you and your team might handle

00:32:46.760 situations when they go wrong. What have you identified as being maybe potential pitfalls or

00:32:52.920 shortcomings in some areas in this model and in this venture that you're on that you need to make

00:32:57.980 sure is addressed? You know, I think the main thing that we've seen since launch is just that

00:33:03.360 education, and I knew this before from my experience at Pencil Promise, it's a deeply human business.

00:33:08.240 With other businesses, right, let's say I was, you know, we're building an e-commerce business.

00:33:13.140 It's really about customer acquisition and then keeping people happy and having them promote and

00:33:17.880 evangelize your product to others. But once they've signed up, once they've purchased the good that

00:33:23.020 you're selling them, then the interaction to some degree is complete. You've kind of satisfied the

00:33:27.440 goal. And with what we're doing, it's very far from that. The moment that a student enrolls and they,

00:33:33.360 you know, let's say they get accepted and I actually personally call every student that gets accepted

00:33:37.620 into MissionU and share the news with them, it's like a call out of the blue and they're usually

00:33:41.460 pretty surprised that I'm on the other side of the phone. But it's important to me that I get to

00:33:45.540 know our students. And, you know, once they show up at orientation, that's actually the beginning

00:33:49.920 of a very long journey together. You know, it's at minimum the year that they're in the program and

00:33:54.760 the three years that they're sharing and contributing back to MissionU financially once they've reached that

00:34:00.560 place of success. So I'm talking about more than likely around a five plus year journey with any

00:34:06.260 person. And as much as we can design this extraordinary curriculum and bring in world

00:34:11.220 class instructors and advisors, which we have from Harvard and Stanford and MIT and some of the top,

00:34:16.960 not only colleges, but companies in the country, you know, something can happen in someone's life

00:34:21.780 that is completely unexpected and has nothing to do with what's occurring in, you know, their academic

00:34:26.560 experience and it can derail everything. Loss of a loved one. And suddenly you need to return home

00:34:32.020 and spend a week or two morning, but the rest of your cohort is learning a really tough technical

00:34:38.240 skill and you're behind when you get back and you need that support. And I think that's the main thing

00:34:43.460 that I've learned, that I've seen, and that I think our team has really adapted incredibly to navigate

00:34:48.720 is just the human elements of education and making sure that our students have the holistic and well-rounded

00:34:54.900 support systems around them. Whether that's every student gets an individual coach, whether that's the

00:35:00.220 opportunity for counseling, if they need it to make sure that beyond just the curriculum, our students are able

00:35:06.020 to thrive, navigating all the complexities of life.

00:35:09.220 I think this is really powerful because technology is obviously an amazing, amazing tool. It's how you and I

00:35:15.100 are having this conversation right now and how we're both able to reach millions and millions of people. But I think

00:35:19.940 the more that we go down this technology rabbit hole, the more humans are going to starve and crave for this

00:35:26.920 individual and personalized attention. So I'm glad to hear that you've addressed that or that you're working towards

00:35:31.300 addressing that.

00:35:32.040 Yeah, yeah, it's critical.

00:35:34.900 Who's teaching these classes? Are these professors? What are their types of credentials? How do we know we're getting

00:35:41.600 the best information and qualified information?

00:35:43.680 We actually have not found that hiring people from purely academic institutions for the business parts of

00:35:51.080 of Michigan, right? Operations, planning, student experience, etc. leads to a lot of success. But we have had solid

00:35:57.460 success with folks that have both worked in industry and had experience teaching in academia, as well in the

00:36:04.160 instructor role. But the main qualification for us that we look for is have you actually done the job that you're going to

00:36:10.160 teach students at a leading company. And so for our first trimester, this foundational set of business

00:36:16.120 training, we almost think of it as as what a business major should be. I mean, the most popular

00:36:20.300 major in the United States is business right now. But I've looked at and hired many, many people who come

00:36:26.000 from a business background and enter a company with absolutely no comprehension or skill whatsoever as

00:36:31.200 it relates to business. So we designed that that first trimester with folks who have worked at Bain, where I

00:36:36.900 started out my career, it's I think the best training, it's rated the number one training for folks coming out of

00:36:42.020 undergrad in the country. And so we look to hire a lot of ex Bain people, former IBM, NASDAQ, etc. So top tier

00:36:48.400 companies to help teach that first trimester, the second trimester and data analytics, these are top tier

00:36:53.980 data scientists that oftentimes have worked at leading companies, you know, have taught at leading

00:36:58.780 colleges, and then our coaches that support folks through the process of the soft skill development, and this

00:37:06.500 holistic personal development, primarily come from Stanford. And so there's two, the most actually

00:37:12.440 popular courses for Stanford undergrad and Stanford business school, one's called designing your life,

00:37:17.560 the other is called interpersonal dynamics, we have former lectures from those two courses who lead our

00:37:22.940 student experience work.

00:37:24.820 Well, Adam, this has been extremely, extremely fascinating. I'm really anxious to see where this

00:37:29.660 goes and how this continues to develop. And I see it being part of the solution to the problem that I think a lot of

00:37:34.220 people are experiencing. Is there anything else that I should have asked you or that you want to make

00:37:38.460 sure we address as we wind things down today?

00:37:40.440 I think the main thing is just to be aware that given the demand that we've seen, our goal is not

00:37:44.420 to turn away students, it's to let them in, you know, historically, we've had less than 1% acceptance

00:37:49.380 rate, just given the number of applicants that we've seen, but we actually don't prioritize SAT or GPA

00:37:55.420 whatsoever in our admissions process. We're not looking at how you've performed in the past, we're looking at

00:38:00.380 your future potential. How do you bring soft skills in particular to the table? How do you work in

00:38:04.360 groups? You know, how do you demonstrate critical thinking and reasoning? Are you an effective

00:38:08.140 communicator? And how passionate are you about Mission U in particular to evaluate admission?

00:38:13.740 So we now enable students to apply really at any time in the year, we have three start dates,

00:38:19.020 January, May and September. So that enables us to have rolling admissions. And as a result, if anyone

00:38:24.520 that's listened to this either thinks that Mission U, just spelled M-I-S-S-I-O-N-U at the end, just the

00:38:30.860 letter U, thinks that the program could be the right fit for them. Or if you think it could be the right

00:38:35.920 fit for someone that you know and care about, it could be a friend, a family member, a peer, someone

00:38:40.700 that you've mentored, I just encourage you to send them to missionu.com. And right there, they can just go to

00:38:47.060 our apply page and start the process.

00:38:49.480 Nice. We'll make sure we link that up. So all the guys listening to this can have access to that,

00:38:53.060 nowhere to go. My last question for you, one that I prepared you a little bit for, is what does it

00:38:57.520 mean to be a man?

00:38:58.980 It's a great question. And it's evolving constantly. But the definition that I think I inherited from

00:39:04.460 watching great men in my life is, first and foremost, that you treat others the way that

00:39:09.240 you want to be treated. And I think that really starts in the home. And so it's being a great

00:39:13.460 husband, it's being a great father, it's being a great brother, son. And then the second thing is

00:39:17.960 that you strive to be an example for those that you love most to take pride in. And finally, that

00:39:24.520 you make sure that you leave the world better than you inherited it and make a firm commitment to

00:39:29.600 support others and be a positive influence.

00:39:32.600 Well, it sounds like you are living up to that from this conversation and from the limited that I

00:39:36.660 know about you. So I appreciate the way that you're showing up. And of course, what you're doing

00:39:40.320 here, I know this is a huge problem. It's one that I've talked with hundreds and hundreds of guys

00:39:45.080 about. And I know there needs to be a solution to this higher education dilemma that I think will

00:39:50.280 continue to become a problem, even more so if we don't address it. So I appreciate you taking the

00:39:54.620 initiative to do that. Sounds like you're doing some amazing things. And again, I'm excited and

00:39:58.480 anxious to see where this thing, where this thing takes you and us. So thanks for showing up. Thanks

00:40:02.740 for imparting some of your wisdom today, man. Oh, my pleasure. Thank you for giving us all a forum.

00:40:08.280 There it is, gentlemen, my conversation with Adam Braun. I hope that you got as much out of this as I

00:40:13.280 did. I see this as being a huge issue. And I think mission you is onto some very, very viable

00:40:19.880 solutions to the cost and effectiveness of traditional higher education. Guys, if you enjoyed

00:40:25.560 the show, please let me and Adam know on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, wherever you're doing the social

00:40:31.380 media thing. We are there. It's always good to hear from you guys. In the meantime, please take a look

00:40:36.360 at the uprising, which again is being held May 3rd through 6th, 2018. You can go to order of man.com

00:40:42.120 slash uprising to learn more. And of course, lock in your spot, but we only have 10 spots. So if

00:40:47.000 you're going to do it, get on it quick. And then of course, we've got the book order of man.com

00:40:50.820 slash sovereignty for the book sovereignty, the battle for the hearts and minds of men. Guys,

00:40:55.680 with that said, I'm going to sign out for today. I appreciate you being on the journey to reclaiming

00:40:59.880 masculinity with me. I could not, could not do it without you guys until Friday, take action and

00:41:05.980 become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

00:41:11.120 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

00:41:15.480 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - February 13, 2018

152： The Future of Higher Education ｜ Adam Braun

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