Suffering isn t typically something people like to attract in their lives, but the reality is you cannot fully escape it. So rather than run from the unexpected suffering we re all likely to face, my guest Navy SEAL Commander Rourke Denver suggests we run towards it and embrace it instead. Today we talk about the power of identifying and living by a set of ethos, how to create an extremely powerful ecosystem for success, when to stick to the rules and when to break them, and how you can embrace the suffering life is bound to present.
00:07:32.460But since he's gone on to creating an amazing business focused on the idea of living life ever onward and always driving forward,
00:07:40.060he's taking all the lessons he's learned and sharing them with others and the world so they can learn what it takes to lead their own lives,
00:07:46.860which is obviously a lot of what we're doing here.
00:07:48.660And then speaking of leadership, this man is an incredible leader.
00:07:52.480You'll hear that in the interview today and has since become a friend of mine.
00:07:56.580I believe in finding and connecting with high quality men and Rourke is among the best.
00:08:03.360Rourke, such an honor to have you on the show.
00:08:44.880Well, I think people that are doing big things and good things and I try to place myself in that category are bound to meet at some point, right?
00:08:52.280Well, hey, as I was doing some research and looking into a little bit about what you were doing and your mission and your purpose and your background, I came across something that I found really interesting, which was on your site.
00:09:02.840And I wanted to lead off the conversation with that because I think it'll create some framework and foundation for the rest of the discussion today.
00:09:10.200And I really think having an ethos and having a model by which to live is really, really important.
00:09:15.460Can you explain to me a little bit about how you came up with the ethos and why that's so important to you?
00:09:19.920I think it was kind of riffing on, you know, my time in the military.
00:09:24.420There's a tremendous number of organizations across, you know, across our greater military.
00:09:29.620I was a member of the SEAL community for my entire military career and I'm actually finishing up still.
00:09:35.240I did 13 active duty years in the SEAL teams, a lot of combat experience in those windows of time.
00:09:39.940And then ended up kind of finishing my active career, running the training at the SEAL training compound out in Coronado.
00:09:47.560And in my time in the SEAL teams, we actually developed an ethos that hadn't been there when I started.
00:09:53.760So, I mean, I think if you'd asked the SEAL previous to the codifying of it with an actual written ethos, I think everybody would have given you different answers.
00:10:02.520You would have seen a lot of commonality, of course, in what we believe in and who we think we are and what we stand for.
00:10:07.940I happen to know kind of from behind the curtain that one of our senior admirals was at a meeting with other special operations forces, right?
00:10:16.220So Green Berets and Rangers and these other units.
00:10:18.520And one of the generals, and I don't know which one it was, but let's say it was the SF general that the Green Beret general said, you know, kind of gave him a hard time, you know, probably having drinks or something, saying, well, you know, you guys haven't even as a community written down what you believe in.
00:10:32.120I mean, there's the Ranger creed and the ethos that the Green Berets look at.
00:10:36.300And if you just took Semper Fidelis as the lone pipe hitter ethos of the Marine Corps, those are codified special things.
00:10:43.620And it kind of engaged him to say, you know, that's true.
00:10:47.020We know who we are, but we should have written that down at some point so it can kind of stand the test of time.
00:10:53.940So, you know, your listeners can Google the SEAL ethos and read it.
00:10:57.640It's a document that's easy to get your hand on.
00:10:59.460But it's a special document, you know, talks to the things we believe in and, you know, who we are.
00:11:04.960And the nice thing is it sets a standard for the new guys, right?
00:11:08.060The new meets coming into the team that this is what we believe in and this is what you're going to be asked to become a part of and to water that set of values or take from it.
00:11:17.600And then you're going to see how that works out.
00:11:19.580And so the idea of an ethos is something that I think is hugely important.
00:11:22.940So on my website, RoarkDenver.com, I've created this brand called Ever Onward, which is I always signed off with my emails or text to buddies and stuff with Onward.
00:11:33.260And Ever Onward seemed like the full realization of that thought of kind of always moving forward and always driving for what's next.
00:11:40.200And, you know, on the battlefield, there's times to go backwards.
00:11:43.060In general, the group that advances and pushes forward wins the fight.
00:11:46.740And so on my site, I just created an ethos, not so much so people could read mine.
00:11:52.000I have my own personal ethos that I feel like I've written for myself, for my family, and I share that with about my family only.
00:11:59.780But I use pieces of that and then I use pieces of other ethos that I've read and kind of digested to kind of just encourage people, either an individual or an organization, to do that.
00:12:12.000To take the time to sit down and set to the task of saying, who am I?
00:12:18.180And there's something about, I'm sure you know this and would echo this, there is something about writing things down that makes it better.
00:12:46.820I mean, at this point, it's probably internalized for you.
00:12:49.660But I think any time a man creates something that he's going to live by, there's probably a process by which he actually adopts this into his life, right?
00:13:04.220I mean, I think most of the things behavior-wise that I was executing or living in my daily life didn't change because I wrote it down.
00:13:12.860It just gave a little elegance to it, if nothing else.
00:13:16.220You know, and then it put it down in a set of, in a system in which or a framework that I could reference.
00:13:21.060So, you know, I don't open up my personal ethos and read it every morning.
00:13:25.180Although every morning I kind of start my day with a little bit of, you know, getting myself charged up and ready to go and doing some breathing, doing some things to kind of get myself going.
00:13:33.180And so I think about it and I'm constantly changing my thoughts.
00:13:36.700I mean, I think we're best if we are adopting new ideas and new concepts and being willing to not die on that hill with everything you believe in.
00:13:45.840So there's stuff that are non-negotiables that are never coming off.
00:13:50.080And there's things that I think of and say, you know, I could adjust that.
00:13:52.680I could rethink this and look at it a different way.
00:13:55.700So I think it's important to keep it flexible.
00:13:58.280I mean, all the great documents, you start looking at our, you know, our Bill of Rights, the Constitution, these different things, they're living things that are meant to be amended.
00:14:06.400How do you find for yourself that balance between this is not negotiable and this I need to expand my horizons, open up my mindset to these other things?
00:14:13.800Because I think the biggest challenge that we have in doing that is probably our own ego.
00:14:21.920I think the non-negotiables are the pillar or kind of elemental things, right?
00:14:28.680The way I'm going to treat my family and think of my family, the way I'm going to value, you know, friendships and what I consider a friendship to be, the character and the makeup of how I'm going to handle myself out in my public life, which, you know, really mirrors my private life.
00:14:46.020Those things are not particularly negotiable to me.
00:14:48.840Now, it doesn't mean I'm not going to think of a new way of doing things or if somebody says, hey, you know, the world's changing, let's adopt and adjust with it.
00:14:56.460At this point, I think, you know, certainly I would assume your followers agree that the world is adjusting too much at too rapid a pace in the social environment to where we're getting away from the things that have worked for a long time and we know are worth following and worth practicing.
00:15:19.360So you've got to have the ability to say, you know, maybe I do need to reevaluate that stuff.
00:15:23.880And that's the good stuff in life when you hit those points where you're like, man, I thought for sure I was right about this and I might not be.
00:17:26.640I'll have to go back and watch it again because I remember enjoying the movie.
00:17:29.420And certainly it gives you a more – a small taste of the cost of freedom and liberty and some of the heroic actions you and your team have performed.
00:17:38.400No, and, you know, we're all in it together.
00:17:40.380I mean, I think the interesting thing about being in the military is – and I'm sure you've had this experience.
00:17:44.960I'll run into somebody on the street kind of in my post-military life and find out they're a veteran.
00:17:49.820We start talking and, you know, often it comes out who is who and who is where.
00:17:53.580And they're like, oh, well, you know, I didn't do anything like you did.
00:17:55.700And I'm like, you know, it doesn't work that way, man.
00:17:57.520I mean, if you were a cook on the chow line, I don't get to hit targets on an empty stomach.
00:18:02.800If you're somebody that works as a mechanic, I don't get to hit targets if my trucks aren't running.
00:18:06.720And I don't know how to turn wrenches on that stuff.
00:18:08.320I really don't see a tremendous disparity between, you know, the elite forces that are maybe at the tip of the spear hitting targets
00:18:15.480and those that are in the rear making it happen.
00:18:17.180If any one of those pieces of that cog goes down, we don't get to do our job.
00:19:03.780Yeah, I mean, I appreciate that perspective because I think all too often with leaders, they think it's all got to be on them or they think they're above the team or above the other moving parts of the organization.
00:19:13.740And it sounds like you're not – I think this is probably the reason that you're a successful leader.
00:19:18.440But I really would like to hear about some of your foundational leadership principles when it comes to leading teams effectively and how to rally guys around a common cause or mission.
00:19:30.060I mean, it's – you know, there's been – I mean, if you go to the leadership section of Barnes & Noble, man, you got, you know, several rows of books to pull from, right?
00:19:37.300And the funny thing is if you closed your eyes and grabbed 10 books randomly from those blindfolded, you'd find tremendous crossover in these principles.
00:19:46.380We know you, you know, you have to set the example and can't, you know, hold somebody to a standard that you're not willing to meet yourself.
00:19:53.200And I think one of the things that I am growing ever onward as a brand and kind of as a concept is to get a little more tangible.
00:20:01.560Not only here's the principle that you need to adhere to, but here's how to do it.
00:20:06.300You know, so many of those books just kind of give the top principle and maybe a story that goes with it.
00:20:10.920But I think a lot of people then sit there and feel like they're kind of left with an empty toolbox because it didn't say, you know, here's how to actually do that.
00:20:32.500So that's in some ways the easy stuff.
00:20:35.240I think the stuff that gets a little harder is we all have very different teams to lead.
00:20:40.300And I don't think there's any cookie cutter way to do it.
00:20:43.360You know, I've seen and you've seen this in the military.
00:20:45.740Certainly, you know, I've seen screaming, maniacal, tyrannical leaders that actually were pretty effective, good leaders.
00:20:52.160I mean, you might not want to spend a lot of time around them, but they got results and got the job done.
00:20:56.200I've also seen quiet, cerebral, very, you know, strategic level thinkers that made it work.
00:21:02.700And I saw both those same personality traits absolutely fall apart and be disastrous, right?
00:21:07.480So there isn't a, hey, you have to do this.
00:21:09.920I think what we need to figure out as leaders is what is your style?
00:21:14.580What is your methodology or, you know, personality?
00:21:17.900And then let's let's build your leadership skill set around that.
00:21:21.940I mean, I just think if a person that's a screamer is probably not going to do real well whispering and somebody that likes to whisper ain't going to do real well screaming.
00:21:29.660So we've got to find how you come to the table and come to the fight and then make that work within systems that we know are, you know, kind of like the ethos non-negotiable.
00:21:39.960I mean, my sense is I looked at three kind of pillar things that I did when it came to leadership.
00:21:46.300One, I put tremendous value on judgment.
00:21:49.760I think character is the thing that always gets talked about.
00:22:00.820But let's put character aside and say when it comes to make an actual decision on the battlefield, you know, if you told me I got a man, a high character with poor judgment,
00:22:09.180and I had a man of questionable character with great judgment, if I'm going in a gunfight, I'm taking great judgment and questionable character every day of the fight.
00:22:17.640Sure. It depends on the mission, of course.
00:22:19.460Yeah, that person is going to make good decisions that's going to get me home at night, you know.
00:22:23.240So the idea of judgment, which is really just exercising your skill set in whatever your battlefield looks like and seeing, hey, can I make good decisions and the right decisions to win the day or win the cause more often than not?
00:22:36.940My judgment is where it needs to be, and let me execute that more often and trust myself to do so.
00:22:42.780There's this concept I have in my mind that I can't come up with a better word than equality.
00:22:47.100And what I mean by that is my guys always knew I was in charge.
00:22:51.340I mean, I don't think there was ever a question when you came into a unit that I ran, they'd be like, oh, you know, who in this room is actually calling the shots?
00:22:57.620I think that will be pretty quickly understood and known that I'm going to be one making the call.
00:23:04.180That being said, I never made my guys feel like they worked for me.
00:23:08.540I tried to ensure they knew I worked for them, that the higher I went up the chain of command, the higher I went up the flagpole, the more in service to those folks I was.
00:23:18.260So if you do that, if people know you're working on their behalf, your efforts and energy and sweat and the labors you put on your back are based on them, you're off to the races.
00:23:28.100That's somebody anybody can get behind and want to follow.
00:23:33.140So, you know, just developing a level of trust that you're willing to make the call, you're willing to make the decisions that are going to affect the outcome of the team, but they trust you that you're obviously going to have their and the organization and missing focus in line in such a way that everybody wins.
00:23:49.520So, you know, judgment, equality and trust are three of those things that I kind of always kept as DNA level parts of my leadership journey, I guess.
00:23:57.820I was watching a video in preparation for our conversation today, and I think somebody had mentioned about you, they were talking about you, that you are a natural born leader.
00:24:08.240And I'm really curious on your perspective on that.
00:24:11.320Like, where are you coming from with regards to that statement?
00:24:14.100Yeah, I think it's a little bit of art and science both.
00:24:17.540I don't ever want to duck a question, you know, and I think sometimes the 50-50 is a little bit of a cop out, but I sort of believe it's true in this regard.
00:24:24.900My percentages are probably off, but I think no question you can develop, learn, and kind of go pursue leadership skill set, traits, experiences that are going to help you become a better leader.
00:24:39.320I do think there is a born, you know, genetic or bloodline trait that shows itself in certain leaders.
00:24:47.140I mean, I just think that's undeniable.
00:24:48.920I mean, we know this from playgrounds and watching kids.
00:24:52.380You'll see a kid that all of a sudden has rallied every other kid on the playground to go do something.
00:25:03.520I mean, I watch her on a playground, and it is insane.
00:25:06.840I mean, she can just rally people around a cause and get people to do things that they probably wouldn't have done otherwise.
00:25:12.400My background was mostly in sports, you know, aggressive sports growing up, playing contact sports and, you know, fighting and playing rough.
00:25:19.400And I think, you know, I almost always ended up being the captain of the team.
00:25:23.380A lot of times it has to do with performance.
00:25:25.280A lot of times the best player on the team ends up being the captain.
00:25:28.340You know, that certainly wasn't always the case, but I had a few spots where that was the case.
00:25:32.240But I think I always just naturally fell into a leadership position.
00:25:35.840I think one of the reasons that was the case is I'm totally comfortable with throwing the book out and not playing by the rules to win in fights and do things.
00:25:43.440At the same time, on the most basic level, I'm pretty good at just holding the line and upholding the standard.
00:25:50.280So, you know, if you're in basic training, they expect you to be up at this hour, be shaved, have your boots polished, make sure your belt buckle's ready.
00:27:07.480And I think any quote unquote leader who isn't OK with that probably isn't really a leader to begin with.
00:27:14.140No, look, it's easy to take pot shots at this gal.
00:27:16.780And I don't like getting in the political space because it's just bad conversations.
00:27:19.900But, you know, you look at Hillary Clinton at this point, we're now a year beyond the point that she lost.
00:27:25.760And she has yet to realize, and I think she would pass a lie detector test, yet to realize that there is only one person to blame for losing that election.
00:27:36.000And that's looking you in the mirror, right?
00:27:38.060It didn't have anything else to nobody.
00:27:40.000I mean, you could talk about what Comey did and these different like peaks and valleys of the political landscape and people's feelings.
00:27:47.600But I haven't seen a leader worth their salt that when they failed, they didn't just raise their hand and be like, that's on me.
00:28:22.640I mean, I think it's as evident as just watching a professional football game.
00:28:26.180You know, you see the guy score the touchdown and does he run back to his team or does he run away from his team and celebrate versus the guy that says, hey, good job to my line.
00:29:41.360You had to be on probation for about six, eight months.
00:29:44.040They wanted to feel you out and see if you were going to be able to do the job, and then you'd earn your BUDS, your Trident, you know, that makes you an actual SEAL.
00:29:50.780And when I showed up my team, my commanding officer had just left JSOC, Joint Special Operations Command, which is all those top-tier units together.
00:29:58.800And he just said, look, if I'm going to have a junior officer on my team, I want them to go speak Army because in that era, pre-9-11, Army dominated everything.
00:30:06.960They dominated all of special operations, all of main force engagements around the world.
00:30:11.360And so most of Special Operations Command, all the senior staff positions were Army generals or Command Sergeant Majors.
00:30:18.600And so he sent all of us junior officers of that team to Ranger School.
00:30:22.320So, yeah, I knocked out Ranger School.
00:30:24.120I crushed it mostly based on fear because I was the only guy that went down there that didn't have his trident at that point.
00:30:31.300So I was like, well, if I screw this up, I'm probably not going to become a frog man.
00:30:35.260So I went all out, and I feel very lucky to have done it.
00:30:41.460I still have buddies that I obviously went through that with, and it was a neat part of my career.
00:30:45.220Yeah, I mean, you've got a really interesting and unique perspective seeing both sides of this thing.
00:30:49.580How do they differ from your perspective?
00:30:52.080Yeah, they're definitely apples and oranges.
00:30:54.320I mean, there's a lot of, you know, fundamental things that are, of course, the same, the discipline and the suffering and the focus.
00:30:59.280They just do it in different ways, and they get at that breakdown process and that suffer process in different ways.
00:31:05.100SEAL training is, you know, six months to a year to get through.
00:31:07.880And the physical nature of that, and I mean the true raw, like, PT aspect, sit-ups, push-ups, pull-ups, runs, logs on your head, boats on your head, I don't think it has an equivalent.
00:31:38.980So starving and kind of misery of suffering with trudging type stuff is their secret sauce.
00:31:45.140And don't get me wrong, it's horrible, you know, and you've done that.
00:31:48.440If you're a Marine or you're an Army folk, you know a little something about putting a ruck on your back and just, you know, working your way up a ridge line.
00:31:57.720They just had different methodologies to kind of get to the same place.
00:32:00.740The thing I liked about ranger school is I think ranger school gets this connotation of being this, you know, because all infantry officers go there.
00:32:08.560It's kind of this officer leadership school.
00:32:10.700It's made for the squad leader, right?
00:32:12.440It's made for that young E3 to E5 that's going to go out and run four to eight guys on the battlefield.
00:32:19.040And are you going to be the type of person that can step up and make a decision and lead that group to the ranger objective and get the job done?
00:32:25.640So I kind of love that basic level leadership and basic soldiering skills.
00:32:33.040I mean, the advanced nature of what we do in the SEAL teams isn't really as advanced as people think.
00:32:37.900I mean, some of my guys might cringe hearing that.
00:32:39.760But I think when people look at Delta and Team 6 and these top teams, if you want to know what makes them special, they do the basics better than anybody else in the world.
00:33:41.380You usually fall back to what you've trained to do.
00:33:45.060Now, I think you'll rise to the level of your peers, so that's an important distinction.
00:33:49.360You'll rise to the people you spend time with.
00:33:51.820When I talk to young people, I'm like, hey, and my kiddos more than anybody, I'm like, choose your friends wisely.
00:33:57.420Choose the people you spend time with wisely because you are going to basically become an average level of their behavior, their traits, their beliefs, and their performance.
00:34:07.040So you surround yourself with good people.
00:34:08.800You're going to perform at a high level.
00:34:44.940And between that and the leadership team development that we have going on, the camaraderie, the brotherhood with 25 other men, you are going to walk away equipped with a new set of skills, resources, tools, all designed to help you level up as a husband, a father, and a man in general.
00:35:03.520So again, guys, really quickly, really brief on that.
00:35:06.040Again, we only have a few spots remaining.
00:35:07.760This is the last time you're going to hear me talk about it because we're probably going to sell out of it this week.
00:35:11.620So if you are interested and want to know a little bit more, check it out at orderofman.com slash uprising.
00:35:43.740I think in the modern era, the reason I've keyed into it is that we've basically, as a culture at large, I feel like, designed a life in which you can insulate yourself almost totally to not suffer.
00:35:56.280You can be in a static environment from your house to your car to the place you're going where the temperature is right.
00:36:08.040I mean, it does it more than you realize.
00:36:09.660But, you know, in general, we've just like insulated ourselves from suffering.
00:36:13.760And I think culturally we are seeing the negative manifestations of that protectionist kind of way of doing things.
00:36:20.780I think we know on just a cellular level that, you know, if I want to get strong, I can make myself strong by doing repeated things that hurt, right?
00:36:30.840Like I lift heavy stuff off the ground multiple times.
00:36:45.740So, like, that's something you can control.
00:36:47.520And I think everything that we do in life, you know, you have some value or some, like, mathematical percentage you give to it in how valuable it is to your experience.
00:36:57.720And I've got a buddy, my buddy Stephen Ranella, who has this TV show called The Meteor.
00:37:13.640But, like, 20 years from now, you're not going to be talking about how great that roller coaster was because it was one of those things you didn't earn any of the excitement of that moment.
00:37:21.940But if you went to, like, summer camp and they made you, like, do some crucible on the last day where you go out in the woods at night and you're scared, you know, down to your core and you're uncomfortable and then you come in, you're going to remember that moment because it sucked.
00:37:34.940And we remember the things that suck and hurt.
00:37:37.860So we're going to keep talking about this beyond this podcast, you and I, but I'm kind of creating some suffer experiences that I'm going to unleash on the world and folks that want to come get them because that's where the growth is.
00:37:49.200You know, when you're uncomfortable and things are hard, that's usually where I find out what you're made of, how you're going to react to that.
00:37:56.360And in my mind, I see it all as almost like getting an inoculation to be tougher for when the hard thing comes, right?
00:38:03.860I mean, being SEALs and being warriors, you know, yourself included, it's like we've moved the needle on what we can handle in life.
00:38:10.780Like when things hit me, I'm like, whatever, man, I've seen plenty of tougher things than this.
00:38:31.440I mean, we see it time and time again where people just, like you said, they crumble, they wilt at the smallest sign of adversity and any little struggle.
00:38:38.880And it's like, really, this is what's derailing you right now?
00:38:42.100It's because they're not used to harder things.
00:38:46.920I mean, I look at, you know, my kids are going through elementary school right now.
00:38:50.740And I'm like, geez, I feel like I got to create multiple programs here for the kid level to just make things hard because they're never going to grow, get tough.
00:39:23.520I'm sure you're seeing it with your following.
00:39:25.640But beyond it, you know, I'm doing these, I'm sure we'll talk about these campfires, but I'm going to grow that into more of an experience, whether that's a multi-day or a several-day experience where folks can come and get uncomfortable.
00:39:38.740You know, get to a spot, but we're going to do stuff that's not going to just crush everybody.
00:39:41.820I know everybody doesn't want to do SEAL training, but we're going to do some stuff that's going to get you well out of your comfort zone.
00:39:47.320And I just know those are going to be pillar-type events that somebody can look at as a waypoint and be like, well, you know, I got through that suffer session with Denver.
00:39:56.920I could probably handle the week schedule that's coming up.
00:39:59.840I could probably deal with my grocery list.
00:40:03.220Well, I'm excited to hear what you have going on.
00:40:05.240Obviously, you've got your campfires that you talked about, but I'm excited for those events.
00:40:08.320Last time somebody talked about an event like that, I inadvertently signed up for a 60-hour endurance event with Joe DeSena with Spartan Races, and it was miserable.
00:40:17.140But like you said, you know, it was something that defined me in a small way and created a new framework.
00:40:22.360I think about that with basic training and playing football in high school.
00:40:26.300I think about that with my time in the service and serving overseas.
00:40:31.060So when you get that online or offline, I should say, I'm really interested in participating for sure.
00:40:36.700No, we'll definitely keep talking about it.
00:40:38.840And that's why I think you're seeing the adventure races and obstacle course races just explode, right, is because people are, man, I mean, the most, you know, even those people, a lot of them were, you know, running 5Ks or maybe they did a triathlon.
00:40:51.620And, you know, I'm not taking away from triathlon.
00:40:53.440You go hard enough on a triathlon, you can hurt yourself quick.
00:40:56.280But I think people are saying, God, there's something more.
00:40:59.340And the brilliance of the Tough Mudder and the Spartan Races and all those things is that, you know, you'll see elite athletes there getting after it that are CrossFitters and going, you know, just completely balls out.
00:41:09.680And then you'll see like a couple of frat boys are like, dude, we got a couple extra pounds too much on us.
00:41:16.680So there's – I think people are seeing there is merit in it.
00:41:20.620And, you know, if we can get more people to do that, I think they will be getting off the couch and be like, you know what, I can do a little better than the average.
00:41:28.700Well, one of the other themes that I see running across everything that you've talked about and, of course, on your site and stuff as well is this idea of an ecosystem or culture.
00:41:38.580Can you walk me through what you mean when you talk about the ecosystem?
00:41:41.900Yeah, I mean I think culture is going to be a much bigger part of my Ever Onward kind of community or tribe that I'm going to try and grow.
00:41:49.760And I'm sure it's a big part of your tribe.
00:41:53.080I mean I think when you share a cultural connection to one another and that can be – you know, you'd love to say that America's culture – I mean I still think we're phenomenal and an outlier in the world.
00:42:05.220I mean the only thing that's going to wreck this country is ourselves.
00:42:07.560We're going to do it to ourselves by dividing each other and fighting over things that are really small things as opposed to big things.
00:42:13.760But I think, you know, the beauty of being in the military, particularly being in an elite unit – but I mean I think every unit enjoys this – is you have this – a lot of people think it's a bad word.
00:42:23.280But I enjoyed it was the idea of subjugating myself to something bigger than me, right?
00:42:29.920Like the culture and what we believe in, those ethos that we look at and kind of break down and hopefully adhere to, they're important.
00:42:37.720And when you're connected to that, you feel it.
00:42:40.080You feel like you're part of a brotherhood or a sisterhood or a group of folks who have shared vision, shared value, shared ideals that then you feel like you're home, right?
00:42:50.680I mean I was an athlete my entire life.
00:42:52.820I never understood why everybody didn't run as hard as I ran in every practice.
00:43:55.100So I think when I talk about the ecosystem and the culture, I want to create this ethos or kind of share with companies and organizations and then just individuals a way of looking at the world and a way of looking at it in kind of some of these pillar concepts that can help you make decisions and give you a lens through which to look on everything you do.
00:44:16.840I mean I feel like if you have an ethos, it creates this lens that if you look through it, does what I'm going to do next fall into that lens, right?
00:44:26.280Like when I look through it to this, is it going to still keep me in the position I want to be in?
00:44:30.840So when I'm making business decisions, it's through the lens of is this good for Everon or is this good for the tribe of people I want to be connected to?
00:44:38.680And so I just think culture is a huge thing and I got more to come on that for sure.
00:44:42.360Yeah, I mean this is powerful and obviously we could talk more about this and we are.
00:44:46.340We're going to talk more about it in our Brotherhood, the Iron Council.
00:44:59.800I think – funny is not the right word.
00:45:02.040But I think a lot of people are trying to figure out how to find things and I get that.
00:45:06.520I mean I think definitions are important.
00:45:08.180I mean I think the interesting thing about being a man is we can look at a lot of different – I don't know – constructs for what it means to be a man.
00:45:18.160But I kind of look at it in the simplest terms because I think when you break it down, it looks very simple.
00:45:22.320So if I think of what's the ultimate realization of a man, I would think of it as a classic gentleman, right?
00:45:31.980And if we're looking at like the basic definition of gentleman and dexterity – now somebody is going to write in and tweet that I got it wrong.
00:45:38.260But basically is a chivalrous, courteous, or honorable man, right?
00:45:43.360So let's just talk about chivalry, courtesy, and honor.
00:45:46.460I mean if you executed those three things in your life, you don't have a whole lot of problems as to who you're going to be as a man.
00:45:52.760Oh, you're going to screw some things up on Tuesday for sure.
00:45:55.220But if you look at chivalry, which in my mind means believing in something bigger than yourself and fighting for those ideals, that's a good place to be.
00:46:03.920If we're looking at courtesy, now you're taking the time to think of others, the way you treat others, and hopefully it's the way you want to be treated.
00:46:10.900That's now thinking of your common man or your fellow person.
00:46:14.160That's a good place to be, and I think that's a pillar.
00:46:16.180And then if you're talking about honor, now we're into the military and this world that's super – not just the military, but we lived it because it's kind of an everyday thing when you do that.
00:46:27.000When you start – when I think of honor, I think of terms of kind of living your oath, right?
00:46:37.840I mean a lot of people take the oath of marriage, and they're not living up to those ideals, which we know to be part of that.
00:46:43.100People make an oath, in my mind, if they become a parent, or they make an oath if they become a teacher or a mentor or a coach or a pastor or whatever that is.
00:46:51.400If you're not living your oath, you're not living up to being an honorable person, and we can have myriads of definition of what that means.
00:47:00.340So I guess for me, if I answer what it means to be a man, it means to be a gentleman, which would be a chivalrous, courteous, and honorable person.
00:48:43.520I have a calendar and my next one is May 6th.
00:48:45.780And basically what it is, you'll sign up, we'll give you the information on how to get on the live stream, and it's going to be me sitting at a campfire.
00:48:54.140You can pay a little more and actually come physically be at the campfire with me.
00:48:57.640But what I learned from the first one is I'm going to tell, you know, kind of a leadership or a gunfighting story or some story from my background that I think has a learning principle connected to it.
00:49:08.020And the thing I took away from the last one that I really liked was to just get the interaction with the folks.
00:49:13.100So I pulled questions that people submitted in advance.
00:49:16.700I did live questions around the campfire and then I did live questions with folks that were attending the campfire.
00:49:44.700And then I think I'm going to grow this campfire concept in a big way in the coming years.
00:49:49.600I'm just now scratching the surface, I think, doing some of these primal things like a campfire, which you and I know.
00:49:56.200I mean, not everybody sat at a campfire and realized that when you're looking at those flames, it turns off all these operating systems in your brain that you don't need.
00:50:04.820And it lights off these primal kind of caveman systems that you're like, I'm real happy to be warm right now.
00:50:12.300And it just kind of fosters conversation.
00:50:14.740So it was real purposeful that I picked the fire concept.
00:50:17.960And I'm going to try and grow it into a place where I can have campfires going all over this country and get people back to some good things.
00:50:25.080So that's kind of the first major event.
00:50:27.320And then I'm going to grow more experience-based stuff as we go.
00:50:30.760But I want to grow it deliberately and make sure I'm learning as I go and I'm kind of servicing those folks that are going to follow it.
00:51:03.580I appreciate, brother, your service as well and what you're doing now.
00:51:07.220I mean, I think this is the way to keep advancing the ball and make this place a better place is if the right people are in the conversation.
00:51:13.320And we got a whole lot of the wrong people in the national conversation.
00:51:17.020So if we can crack, if we can crack into it, man, I think we're going to be better for it.
00:51:27.500My conversation with the one and only Rourke Denver.
00:51:29.840I hope that you are walking away with a new perspective, at least just a little bit more uplifted and a little bit more enlightened as to what our responsibility as men is, as leaders, as husbands, as fathers,
00:51:45.220I know that I walked away with so much from this interview and Rourke and I have been able to maintain contact since our initial conversation.