Order of Man - 162： Tapping Into Your Hidden Networks ｜ David Burkus

00:00:00.000 There is no such thing as the self-made man.

00:00:02.020 While I can understand and even appreciate the gesture,

00:00:04.620 the truth is that every successful man

00:00:06.560 had some help along the way.

00:00:08.300 That usually comes in the form of others.

00:00:11.100 My guest today is David Berkus.

00:00:12.500 He is the author of Friend of a Friend,

00:00:14.500 Understanding the Hidden Networks

00:00:15.960 That Can Transform Your Life and Career.

00:00:18.440 Today, we talk about the power of weak ties,

00:00:20.940 how to leverage preferential attachment,

00:00:23.320 how to become a super connector,

00:00:25.540 and how to tap into your hidden networks.

00:00:28.000 You're a man of action.

00:00:29.260 You live life to the fullest,

00:00:31.120 embrace your fears,

00:00:32.320 and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:34.060 When life knocks you down,

00:00:35.420 you get back up one more time,

00:00:37.440 every time.

00:00:38.480 You are not easily deterred or defeated,

00:00:40.780 rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:43.540 This is your life.

00:00:44.680 This is who you are.

00:00:46.100 This is who you will become.

00:00:47.820 At the end of the day,

00:00:48.960 and after all is said and done,

00:00:50.840 you can call yourself a man.

00:00:53.180 Gentlemen, what is going on today?

00:00:54.580 My name is Ryan Michler,

00:00:55.860 and I am the host and founder of this podcast,

00:00:58.140 The Order of Man.

00:00:59.260 I am glad that you're here.

00:01:00.380 I'm glad you're involved in the movement,

00:01:02.080 and frankly, guys,

00:01:02.800 it has become a movement.

00:01:04.480 I started Order of Man roughly a little over three years ago now,

00:01:09.120 and I never would have imagined

00:01:10.940 where we would take this thing when I started.

00:01:14.720 And like I said,

00:01:15.280 it's become a movement.

00:01:16.440 Hundreds of thousands,

00:01:17.360 if not millions of men across the planet

00:01:18.920 are tuning in,

00:01:20.120 listening in,

00:01:20.980 having conversations,

00:01:22.220 sharing what we're doing,

00:01:23.120 and I want to thank you for being part of that.

00:01:26.060 Now, part of the reason that we've had so much success

00:01:28.900 with Order of Man over the past three years

00:01:30.700 is in large part to what David and I

00:01:33.120 are going to be talking about today.

00:01:34.760 It's the ability and the power

00:01:36.280 and the skill set of tapping into the networks.

00:01:39.400 It's the relationships.

00:01:40.380 It's the conversations.

00:01:41.680 It's the help.

00:01:42.700 It's the helping others,

00:01:43.680 and it's the genuine desire to push each other along,

00:01:46.920 to motivate,

00:01:47.600 to inspire,

00:01:48.360 and that's exactly what we're doing here.

00:01:49.880 That's exactly what we've done,

00:01:51.400 and that's how we've managed to get

00:01:52.520 such a great lineup of podcast guests

00:01:54.540 and, of course,

00:01:55.040 grow this movement to hundreds of thousands of men

00:01:57.260 literally across the planet.

00:01:59.280 So, again,

00:02:00.060 I'm glad that you're here.

00:02:01.080 I'm glad you're tuning in.

00:02:02.040 This one is going to be a powerful,

00:02:03.940 powerful conversation,

00:02:05.440 one of the best that I've ever had.

00:02:06.820 Now,

00:02:07.500 before we get into the conversation today,

00:02:09.680 I do have just a few announcements

00:02:11.580 that I want to make you aware of.

00:02:12.900 One,

00:02:13.120 we're not completely ready for this,

00:02:14.840 but I can't stand it anymore.

00:02:16.060 I do want to let you know

00:02:17.000 what we're going to be doing

00:02:17.840 in September of this year,

00:02:19.500 September of 2018,

00:02:21.060 and what I'd like you to do

00:02:22.740 is mark the dates on your calendar.

00:02:24.640 September 20th through the 23rd,

00:02:27.220 we are introducing our inaugural event

00:02:29.660 called Order of Man Legacy,

00:02:31.860 and I've got so many requests

00:02:33.840 for a father-son type event

00:02:36.380 that I figured,

00:02:37.060 you know what,

00:02:37.380 it's probably time to get something like this going.

00:02:40.040 My oldest son has been nagging at me a little bit

00:02:43.040 and pawing at me

00:02:43.820 and telling me he wants to do something as well,

00:02:45.720 so we're just going to get this thing started.

00:02:47.760 It's called,

00:02:48.400 again,

00:02:48.680 Order of Man Legacy.

00:02:49.960 The dates are September 20th through the 23rd.

00:02:52.600 We don't have all the details,

00:02:54.040 guys.

00:02:54.880 Mark it on your calendars.

00:02:56.100 We will let you know

00:02:56.680 in the next week or two

00:02:57.500 what we have going on,

00:02:58.760 and there's going to be

00:02:59.340 very,

00:02:59.700 very limited spots,

00:03:00.800 20 spots available,

00:03:02.540 and I will say this,

00:03:03.620 that for the boys,

00:03:04.480 it's between the ages of 8 to 15.

00:03:07.340 So if you have a boy

00:03:07.980 that's between,

00:03:08.640 again,

00:03:08.860 ages 8 to 15,

00:03:10.180 then you qualify for this,

00:03:12.060 and we'll get you the details,

00:03:13.360 but it's going to be an amazing event,

00:03:14.760 Order of Man Legacy.

00:03:15.840 Again,

00:03:16.320 I'll get you all the details

00:03:17.080 when those are available.

00:03:18.280 Outside of that,

00:03:18.900 I want to introduce you to my friends

00:03:20.600 and our show sponsor.

00:03:22.100 Of course,

00:03:22.540 we couldn't do this podcast

00:03:23.580 without you,

00:03:24.460 each and every one of our listeners,

00:03:26.300 and then also the help and support.

00:03:28.500 Now,

00:03:28.620 you've noticed that we've changed

00:03:29.680 some sponsorships

00:03:30.440 over the past two or three weeks now.

00:03:32.700 I wanted to connect with a company

00:03:34.720 that I really believe in,

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00:03:40.820 and they're more than just a sponsor.

00:03:42.640 They're friends,

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00:03:48.460 specifically Pete Roberts,

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00:04:07.220 And then I just got a new shipment today,

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00:04:10.360 of their nutritional supplement.

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00:04:13.960 are familiar with what he's doing.

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00:04:28.740 We have conversations.

00:04:29.960 It goes so much further than

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00:04:32.540 These are friends.

00:04:33.580 If you are interested

00:04:34.520 in learning a little bit more

00:04:35.400 about what they're doing

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00:04:37.660 some of their nutritional supplements,

00:04:38.940 head to originmain.com

00:04:40.980 slash orderofman.

00:04:42.760 originmain.com

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00:04:44.620 And then make sure

00:04:45.340 that you use ORDER,

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00:04:51.060 Again,

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00:04:56.220 for that 5% discount.

00:04:57.720 Now, guys,

00:04:58.200 with that said,

00:04:58.740 today I have the honor

00:04:59.860 of introducing you

00:05:00.720 to my friend

00:05:01.680 and another repeat guest

00:05:03.080 I've had a lot of repeat guests

00:05:04.180 on the show

00:05:04.620 over the past

00:05:05.160 couple of months or so.

00:05:06.440 That's because these guys

00:05:07.320 really have some valuable,

00:05:08.880 valuable information to share.

00:05:10.140 And I know I gain so much

00:05:11.360 when I have conversations

00:05:12.640 with these guys.

00:05:13.740 My guest today

00:05:14.580 is David Berkus.

00:05:15.400 As you might imagine,

00:05:16.780 I have the opportunity

00:05:17.760 to talk with hundreds

00:05:18.840 and hundreds

00:05:19.340 of successful men.

00:05:20.680 But David is somebody

00:05:21.620 who stands out to me

00:05:22.700 as one of the most

00:05:23.560 intelligent,

00:05:25.120 he's articulate

00:05:25.800 and well-researched guests

00:05:27.980 that we've had on.

00:05:28.860 He's a best-selling author.

00:05:30.120 He's a speaker.

00:05:31.140 He's also an associate professor

00:05:32.640 at Oral Roberts University.

00:05:34.180 And in his new book,

00:05:35.580 which I highly recommend

00:05:36.700 picking up,

00:05:37.280 we're going to talk about today,

00:05:38.740 David offers readers

00:05:39.680 a new perspective

00:05:40.520 on how to grow their networks

00:05:42.820 and build their key connections.

00:05:45.140 And this is based

00:05:46.000 on human behavior

00:05:47.200 and the science

00:05:48.060 of human behavior.

00:05:48.800 It's not networking advice

00:05:50.880 that you hear all the time.

00:05:52.000 This is very well-researched.

00:05:53.240 Like I said a minute ago,

00:05:54.580 he's delivered keynotes

00:05:55.720 to the leaders

00:05:56.260 of Fortune 500 companies,

00:05:58.320 future leaders

00:05:58.920 of the Naval Academy,

00:06:00.480 and his TED Talk

00:06:01.740 has been viewed

00:06:02.380 over 1.8 million times.

00:06:05.580 He's also a regular contributor

00:06:06.740 at Harvard Business Review.

00:06:08.960 Guys, sit back,

00:06:10.100 get your notepads out

00:06:11.040 and get ready

00:06:11.660 to learn a little bit more

00:06:12.880 about how to tap

00:06:13.860 into your hidden networks.

00:06:16.620 David, what's going on, man?

00:06:17.700 Thanks for joining me

00:06:18.300 on the show yet again.

00:06:19.420 This is our second round here.

00:06:21.040 Life is good.

00:06:21.660 It's great to be back.

00:06:22.540 The first time

00:06:23.100 was a ton of fun

00:06:23.820 and this time I think

00:06:24.720 it'll be even more fun.

00:06:25.640 Yeah, I think it will too.

00:06:26.500 And I think a lot of people

00:06:27.440 shy away from the topic

00:06:28.520 of quote-unquote networking.

00:06:30.120 It's almost a swear word

00:06:31.080 and it's something

00:06:32.080 a lot of guys

00:06:32.620 just don't want to address

00:06:33.400 because it has

00:06:33.920 such a negative connotation

00:06:35.360 to it, right?

00:06:36.400 It just makes us feel awkward.

00:06:38.440 Like there's very real science

00:06:39.840 that getting out

00:06:40.820 and meeting perfect strangers,

00:06:42.100 we feel fake

00:06:43.060 because we're literally

00:06:44.120 trying to be fake-ish, right?

00:06:46.740 So it makes us feel

00:06:47.680 really awkward,

00:06:48.320 but I think it's because

00:06:49.160 we define networking

00:06:50.840 so often as like

00:06:51.680 going to that little

00:06:52.740 cocktail party,

00:06:53.580 that mixer,

00:06:54.160 that thing where you're

00:06:54.740 supposed to meet new people.

00:06:55.960 And that's why I really wanted

00:06:57.200 with this book to emphasize

00:06:58.460 like the most powerful steps

00:07:00.140 you can take

00:07:00.780 have nothing to do

00:07:01.460 with meeting strangers.

00:07:02.280 They have to do with

00:07:02.980 sort of feeling out

00:07:03.820 the network you're already in

00:07:04.960 and expanding from there.

00:07:06.920 Yeah, well,

00:07:07.220 the one thing you talk about

00:07:08.380 and you define this

00:07:09.260 a little bit differently

00:07:10.000 is network science,

00:07:11.440 which you said,

00:07:12.040 and that obviously alludes

00:07:13.160 to the fact that

00:07:14.000 there is a science to this

00:07:15.220 and there is power

00:07:16.180 and research and data

00:07:17.860 behind why it's so important

00:07:19.380 that we reach out

00:07:20.220 and expand our networks.

00:07:21.300 Can you expand on that

00:07:22.240 a little bit?

00:07:23.320 Yeah, so I mean,

00:07:24.080 network science refers to

00:07:25.380 about a 50-year-old discipline.

00:07:27.700 I mean,

00:07:27.940 some would argue longer than that,

00:07:29.040 but we've been studying

00:07:29.660 how humans connect to each other,

00:07:31.320 how they interact,

00:07:32.500 little things like

00:07:33.200 the small world effect,

00:07:34.260 which is also known

00:07:34.840 as the sort of six degrees

00:07:35.780 of separation idea,

00:07:37.420 but also the difference

00:07:38.760 between your close connections

00:07:39.980 and your weak or dormant ties

00:07:41.380 and all of these things.

00:07:42.400 We've been studying it

00:07:42.960 for about 50 years

00:07:43.900 and, you know,

00:07:44.360 what I found fascinating,

00:07:45.780 my background is,

00:07:47.120 as a social psychologist,

00:07:48.920 is that there's all this research

00:07:50.480 and it's hiding

00:07:51.900 in the hallways

00:07:52.880 of the ivory tower, right?

00:07:53.960 It's all in academia

00:07:54.720 and then there's all of these

00:07:55.920 sort of networking advice books,

00:07:57.820 how to win friends

00:07:58.440 and influence people,

00:07:59.400 never eat alone, etc.

00:08:00.360 And they're good books,

00:08:01.680 but they're one person's advice.

00:08:03.480 And so to me,

00:08:04.040 what got super frustrating

00:08:05.200 was like,

00:08:05.680 well, here is 50 years of research

00:08:08.120 from studying

00:08:08.840 hundreds of thousands of people.

00:08:11.220 This is probably more valuable

00:08:12.580 for getting insights from

00:08:13.700 than like one guy

00:08:14.700 or sometimes girl,

00:08:15.600 but usually guys' advice

00:08:17.000 on how to meet new people.

00:08:19.420 I want to ask you something

00:08:20.760 that I think is going to come across

00:08:22.280 is very obvious to you

00:08:24.380 because you've been doing this

00:08:25.360 and even to me

00:08:26.260 because I think to some degree

00:08:27.680 I recognize

00:08:28.280 how this is so powerful,

00:08:29.620 but I think there's a lot

00:08:30.900 of people out there

00:08:31.560 who just don't understand

00:08:33.760 why this is important.

00:08:35.460 So can you help me

00:08:36.620 understand that?

00:08:38.300 Yeah.

00:08:38.540 So one of the insights

00:08:39.600 that came around

00:08:40.480 maybe 30 years ago

00:08:41.760 was this concept

00:08:43.680 called social capital,

00:08:45.040 this idea that like,

00:08:45.840 I mean,

00:08:46.000 maybe you've actually heard it

00:08:46.920 phrased in sort of pop literature

00:08:48.140 as your network

00:08:48.960 is your net worth, right?

00:08:50.420 Sure.

00:08:50.560 But there really is a value

00:08:52.120 to who you're connected with

00:08:53.340 and it's from everything

00:08:54.020 large and small.

00:08:54.840 So if you have a broad

00:08:56.260 and diverse network

00:08:57.120 and suddenly you need

00:08:58.000 new information,

00:08:59.120 you know who to call

00:09:00.080 or you know who to call

00:09:00.980 to get introduced

00:09:01.600 to who you need to talk to.

00:09:03.080 If you're looking for a new job

00:09:05.060 or a promotion

00:09:05.680 or something like that,

00:09:06.680 the good news is actually

00:09:07.900 it really is who you know,

00:09:09.100 not what you know

00:09:09.720 because who you know

00:09:10.560 is also inside your control, right?

00:09:12.460 Because you just can meet

00:09:13.780 more people.

00:09:14.760 So this term social capital

00:09:16.020 refers to there really is value

00:09:17.840 in your network

00:09:19.400 that can be extracted

00:09:20.500 and used when you need it.

00:09:22.340 And I think for a lot of people,

00:09:23.260 they just think of their network

00:09:24.200 as like the people

00:09:25.160 they see scrolling through

00:09:26.140 in their newsfeed on Facebook

00:09:27.260 or the contacts in their phone.

00:09:29.380 It's far broader than that

00:09:30.760 in terms of social capital.

00:09:32.060 It's not just who you know,

00:09:33.040 it's also who they connect to

00:09:34.340 and then how you can help

00:09:35.860 serve that community of people

00:09:37.160 and how they can help you.

00:09:38.520 There's a ton of value

00:09:39.340 to be extracted in that.

00:09:40.620 Right.

00:09:40.780 And one of the things

00:09:41.380 I've heard as well

00:09:42.100 is it's not who you know,

00:09:43.420 it's who knows you as well, right?

00:09:45.220 Because it's easy to,

00:09:46.560 especially in this digital age

00:09:48.380 and social media

00:09:49.140 where I know this guy

00:09:50.160 and I know this guy,

00:09:50.880 but yet you probably

00:09:51.700 don't really know that individual.

00:09:53.460 You know who that individual is.

00:09:55.000 There's a difference here.

00:09:56.860 Oh yeah, no, exactly right.

00:09:58.260 So it's who knows you.

00:09:59.320 I mean, it's also who they know, right?

00:10:00.640 Because a lot of times

00:10:01.480 it's not going to be

00:10:02.220 that first tier contact.

00:10:04.120 It's going to be knowing someone

00:10:05.620 so you can get an introduction

00:10:06.940 to the person

00:10:07.600 that you need to know, right?

00:10:08.620 So it's also who they know.

00:10:09.960 It's what they know, you know,

00:10:11.160 so they know when to contact you, etc.

00:10:12.660 It's a lot of different things,

00:10:13.840 but they all again stem

00:10:15.620 from that network that you're in

00:10:17.680 and the value that that network has

00:10:19.600 to serve you and your goals,

00:10:21.160 but also to serve the broader community

00:10:22.780 that you're a part of, etc.

00:10:24.120 I made an interesting post on Facebook

00:10:26.680 or did a video or something.

00:10:28.540 I can't remember exactly what it was,

00:10:30.220 but the message was that

00:10:32.700 if for whatever reason,

00:10:34.480 order of man completely tanked,

00:10:36.240 completely crashed,

00:10:37.340 went away, legislation, whatever,

00:10:38.960 whatever the problem was,

00:10:40.620 I honestly,

00:10:41.440 at the risk of sounding

00:10:42.260 maybe a little arrogant,

00:10:43.640 I don't think I'd have

00:10:44.660 any problem in the world

00:10:46.640 finding new employment,

00:10:49.120 creating something entirely new

00:10:50.680 because the value

00:10:51.640 of what we're creating here

00:10:52.720 in order of man

00:10:53.380 besides the work that we're doing

00:10:54.800 is the network

00:10:56.060 that I've been able to create.

00:10:57.440 And I think that is

00:10:58.180 infinitely more powerful

00:10:59.760 than maybe even just the message

00:11:02.180 that we're putting out there.

00:11:03.480 No, that's exactly right.

00:11:04.800 And it's actually

00:11:05.420 one of the first sort of principles

00:11:06.920 that I try and get through

00:11:08.060 to people's head,

00:11:08.780 which is that a network

00:11:09.700 isn't something you have.

00:11:10.580 It's not Ryan's collection of contacts.

00:11:13.060 You've adopted the right perspective

00:11:14.740 in that order of man itself

00:11:16.440 is a network of people,

00:11:18.320 a community of people

00:11:19.240 that, you know, you tend to,

00:11:20.900 but you're not the central noted anymore.

00:11:22.900 It's almost bigger than you.

00:11:24.240 And taking that approach

00:11:25.140 builds far more value

00:11:26.660 for everyone involved,

00:11:27.880 including yourself.

00:11:28.600 So exactly right.

00:11:29.380 If the whole thing shut down,

00:11:30.860 but all you had to rely on

00:11:31.980 was who that network is offline, right?

00:11:34.520 Let's say Facebook implodes

00:11:35.760 for some reason.

00:11:36.700 You might have to trim

00:11:37.380 your beard a bit,

00:11:37.980 but you'd still have more

00:11:38.840 than contacts to go out

00:11:40.560 and find whatever employment

00:11:41.840 you needed

00:11:42.320 or whatever new entrepreneurial gig

00:11:44.760 you wanted to start.

00:11:45.960 Right. Yeah.

00:11:46.240 I've got a close friend.

00:11:47.260 In fact, I think we have

00:11:48.020 a mutual friend

00:11:48.700 who's going through this right now.

00:11:50.480 And it's actually really amazing

00:11:52.920 to see how this social capital

00:11:55.520 and how this idea

00:11:56.960 of building networks

00:11:57.860 before you quote unquote

00:11:59.100 need them actually plays out

00:12:00.840 in real life.

00:12:02.400 Yeah, no, exactly.

00:12:03.380 And if we're both thinking

00:12:04.020 of the same person,

00:12:04.640 it's been a fascinating story

00:12:05.960 because it is,

00:12:06.800 it's sort of like

00:12:07.320 everything falls apart,

00:12:08.160 but then you just sort of

00:12:09.920 look in the contacts

00:12:10.840 of your phone

00:12:11.480 and you look in

00:12:12.080 who your Facebook friends are

00:12:13.080 and you suddenly realize

00:12:13.900 like, wait a minute,

00:12:14.600 I have everything I need

00:12:15.580 if I have the connections still.

00:12:17.400 So you talk about

00:12:18.180 hidden networks.

00:12:19.280 I'd like you to expand

00:12:20.380 on that a little bit

00:12:21.140 and talk about what that means.

00:12:23.040 I know you kind of mentioned

00:12:24.080 previously that

00:12:25.280 we don't even recognize

00:12:26.700 necessarily what networks we have.

00:12:28.580 So what are you referring to

00:12:29.540 when you say hidden networks?

00:12:31.200 Yeah.

00:12:31.400 So when I use the term hidden network,

00:12:32.860 I kind of am referring

00:12:33.740 to two different elements

00:12:34.880 of a network structure, right?

00:12:36.100 So like I said before,

00:12:37.280 people, when they think

00:12:38.360 like your network

00:12:39.040 is your network,

00:12:39.700 they tend to think of it

00:12:41.120 as sort of a list of contacts

00:12:42.420 in their phone

00:12:43.080 or a list of friends

00:12:43.960 on Facebook

00:12:44.920 or connections on LinkedIn,

00:12:46.280 et cetera.

00:12:46.860 But the things that are

00:12:47.660 sort of hidden,

00:12:48.340 if that's your mentality,

00:12:49.920 are how different people

00:12:51.680 are connected to each other.

00:12:52.920 So not just you and I,

00:12:54.260 we just actually mentioned

00:12:55.180 a mutual friend, right?

00:12:56.080 So I look at you

00:12:57.260 as a contact,

00:12:57.900 I look at him as a contact,

00:12:58.780 but the hidden network

00:12:59.480 is also that you two

00:13:00.340 are aware of each other as well.

00:13:01.880 And I need to be aware

00:13:03.000 of that as I work

00:13:03.840 through the network

00:13:04.320 of who introductions

00:13:05.680 that are already made

00:13:06.520 and potential introductions

00:13:07.580 that I can make.

00:13:08.600 And then the second thing

00:13:09.380 is that broader,

00:13:10.680 I mean, you've heard the term

00:13:11.420 six degrees of separation.

00:13:12.720 We explore it a lot in the book.

00:13:14.040 It really is true.

00:13:15.320 I don't think you're going to make

00:13:16.300 five or six introductions

00:13:17.700 to ever,

00:13:18.900 but the truth is

00:13:19.660 there are orders of magnitude

00:13:21.180 more people

00:13:21.840 who can help you

00:13:22.780 and who you can help

00:13:23.640 that are one or two

00:13:24.860 introductions away.

00:13:25.860 And we don't see them

00:13:26.600 because we're often

00:13:27.260 not exploring that.

00:13:28.320 We're just thinking

00:13:29.300 about our network

00:13:29.900 as that collection of contacts,

00:13:31.380 which is,

00:13:31.840 by the way,

00:13:32.160 is just kind of a really

00:13:32.980 sort of sleazy way

00:13:34.020 to do it anyway.

00:13:34.580 And I think that's why

00:13:35.080 people think of it

00:13:35.900 as sleazy. 0.64

00:13:37.080 It's not just connections

00:13:37.820 that you collect.

00:13:38.720 It's this broader network

00:13:39.740 that you can see.

00:13:40.520 So there's how the people

00:13:41.760 that you're already connected to

00:13:42.660 are connected to each other

00:13:43.600 outside of you

00:13:44.400 that you need to be aware of.

00:13:45.600 And then there's also

00:13:46.360 the orders of magnitude

00:13:47.680 more people.

00:13:48.580 Almost everybody

00:13:49.140 you need to meet

00:13:50.260 in your professional life

00:13:51.460 is one or two introductions

00:13:52.820 away from you

00:13:53.440 if they're not already

00:13:54.340 in your network already.

00:13:55.680 Yeah, that's interesting.

00:13:56.560 I actually have a board

00:13:57.620 right here

00:13:58.220 in front of my face

00:13:59.100 right now.

00:13:59.480 It's actually on my wall

00:14:00.600 and it's got a list

00:14:02.160 of potential podcast guests.

00:14:04.400 I've got another column

00:14:05.540 which is relationships

00:14:06.500 that you need to develop

00:14:07.740 and foster.

00:14:09.060 And then I've got

00:14:09.480 another column

00:14:10.220 that's brands

00:14:11.100 that I want to continue

00:14:12.140 to work with

00:14:12.700 and develop relationships with.

00:14:14.380 And I've had mixed reviews

00:14:15.380 on this.

00:14:15.800 Some people are like,

00:14:16.380 oh, that's a good idea.

00:14:17.160 It keeps at the forefront.

00:14:18.100 You always know

00:14:18.500 who you want to connect with.

00:14:19.700 And I've other people

00:14:20.460 have said,

00:14:21.380 oh, you're gaming relationships

00:14:23.020 and you're manipulating

00:14:24.380 this stuff.

00:14:25.020 I disagree.

00:14:25.560 It's not that at all.

00:14:26.940 This is one way

00:14:27.800 that I've been able

00:14:28.420 to develop,

00:14:29.560 like you say,

00:14:30.060 these hidden networks

00:14:30.840 and then figure out

00:14:31.940 where I need to make

00:14:32.820 these connections

00:14:33.480 because it's in the forefront

00:14:34.580 of my mind.

00:14:35.200 It's literally right

00:14:35.840 in front of my face

00:14:36.500 every single day.

00:14:38.240 Yeah, and I don't think

00:14:38.900 it's instrumental at all.

00:14:39.700 I will say,

00:14:40.500 I think it's a little weird

00:14:41.580 if then you took that list

00:14:42.860 and you just started

00:14:43.560 spamming people's emails

00:14:44.680 asking for introductions

00:14:45.680 or what have you.

00:14:46.700 Sure, sure.

00:14:47.020 You know,

00:14:47.260 the beautiful thing

00:14:47.880 about what you just described

00:14:48.820 is you're very much aware

00:14:50.320 of who you need

00:14:51.260 to be connected to

00:14:52.020 and potentially

00:14:52.540 who the people

00:14:53.200 who could connect you

00:14:54.240 to those people are.

00:14:55.840 You're focused on creating value

00:14:57.360 for those connections first

00:14:58.660 and that's the thing

00:14:59.420 I think a lot of people miss.

00:15:00.800 To steal a really old line

00:15:02.440 from a networking advice book,

00:15:04.000 we don't dig our well

00:15:04.920 before we're thirsty.

00:15:05.940 I think of it

00:15:06.420 as if it's social capital

00:15:07.480 is the value in your network,

00:15:09.380 if social capital is a bank

00:15:10.720 and you need to put that value

00:15:12.020 into it a lot of times first.

00:15:13.520 So you're not just running out

00:15:14.520 and saying,

00:15:15.120 hey, I know I just met you

00:15:15.940 at a party.

00:15:16.440 Will you introduce me

00:15:17.280 to this most famous person

00:15:18.740 in your phone?

00:15:19.800 Right, right.

00:15:20.480 You're focused on

00:15:21.460 how do I create value

00:15:22.260 for all of these people

00:15:23.220 so that when the time comes

00:15:24.560 that I needed,

00:15:25.580 you can do it.

00:15:26.100 I mean, I won't lie.

00:15:27.020 I did the exact same thing.

00:15:28.080 I'm in the midst

00:15:28.600 of launching this book

00:15:29.560 and so I have a spreadsheet.

00:15:31.200 It's a Google Doc

00:15:31.860 of every podcast,

00:15:33.500 news outlet, etc.

00:15:34.520 And a lot of the big,

00:15:35.820 far-out reach ones

00:15:36.820 are ones that I'm going

00:15:37.660 to need an introduction for.

00:15:39.240 And so I have a line

00:15:40.280 in another column in it

00:15:41.740 that's sort of,

00:15:42.400 who is the via?

00:15:43.260 Right, who is the person

00:15:44.040 that's going to introduce me to this?

00:15:45.680 And most of them are blank.

00:15:47.180 Why?

00:15:47.620 Because I haven't figured out

00:15:49.200 who the person

00:15:50.020 that I feel comfortable

00:15:51.220 asking for the introduction

00:15:52.720 because I've provided enough value

00:15:54.260 into their life is yet.

00:15:55.660 They're definitely

00:15:56.140 the no-brainer people

00:15:57.080 that I know would introduce me

00:15:58.720 if I just ask.

00:15:59.700 And so they're in there.

00:16:00.460 But there's a lot

00:16:00.980 of other outlets or brands,

00:16:02.500 the things that I want to talk

00:16:04.400 or write about the book

00:16:05.280 that I haven't figured out

00:16:06.260 what the connection is

00:16:06.940 or I know the connection

00:16:07.900 and I know it's not appropriate

00:16:09.040 to ask at this point

00:16:10.200 because I haven't done the work

00:16:11.600 of putting value

00:16:12.420 into that relationship enough

00:16:13.420 to make that ask.

00:16:14.860 Well, and I think

00:16:15.680 what a lot of people look at

00:16:17.220 is that you're actually

00:16:18.320 doing something

00:16:20.000 to another individual

00:16:21.620 and maybe that's not

00:16:22.460 the right phrasing

00:16:23.140 but it comes at the expense.

00:16:24.880 We'll say that.

00:16:25.340 It comes at the expense

00:16:26.340 of that individual

00:16:27.080 but that's not it at all.

00:16:28.180 I mean, this is win-win

00:16:29.080 type situation

00:16:29.960 and even to get

00:16:31.000 a little bit more granular

00:16:31.880 with your example of,

00:16:34.040 hey, I've got the book coming out

00:16:35.060 and I'm trying to get

00:16:35.880 to these media networks.

00:16:37.120 I mean, this is what you did

00:16:37.920 with me.

00:16:38.800 You reached out,

00:16:39.460 you sent me an email

00:16:40.100 and you said,

00:16:40.500 hey, Ryan, I was on the show

00:16:41.400 a year, year and a half ago,

00:16:42.480 whatever it was.

00:16:43.340 I'd love to come back on

00:16:44.280 to talk about this.

00:16:45.460 But if that's all

00:16:46.440 the interaction

00:16:47.220 that we've had

00:16:48.080 over the past year and a half,

00:16:49.800 you would have been

00:16:50.500 less likely to get

00:16:51.600 an interview on this podcast.

00:16:52.580 But that wasn't it at all.

00:16:54.060 We've communicated,

00:16:55.340 we've went back and forth,

00:16:56.600 we've sent messages

00:16:57.340 to each other

00:16:58.060 and then when the time comes,

00:16:59.860 it's like,

00:17:00.600 hey, can I come back

00:17:01.660 on the show?

00:17:02.260 And it's very easy

00:17:03.300 for me to say yes

00:17:04.240 because we have

00:17:05.080 a relationship

00:17:05.840 as opposed to,

00:17:07.140 oh, David just needs

00:17:07.900 to get on a podcast.

00:17:09.360 Exactly right.

00:17:09.900 And that's social capital.

00:17:11.040 That's not like

00:17:11.680 the high risk lending

00:17:13.000 out social capital.

00:17:13.980 That's investing in it

00:17:15.000 for a long time.

00:17:15.660 The real question is,

00:17:16.800 do you feel comfortable, right?

00:17:17.780 So you mentioned

00:17:18.280 right off the very top

00:17:19.240 that I think a lot of people

00:17:20.340 when they think about networking,

00:17:21.220 they feel awkward,

00:17:21.940 they feel uncomfortable,

00:17:22.700 they feel sleazy, etc.

00:17:24.300 And that's because

00:17:24.820 maybe they're implementing

00:17:25.800 the wrong step

00:17:26.760 at the wrong time

00:17:27.720 because they're making

00:17:28.680 the ask long before

00:17:29.940 they've made

00:17:30.520 a series of gives, right?

00:17:31.880 And if you make

00:17:32.380 a series of gives,

00:17:33.100 you don't feel bad at that.

00:17:34.900 And then the other thing

00:17:35.520 is that I think often

00:17:36.540 people feel like

00:17:37.320 an introduction

00:17:37.840 is a really huge ask.

00:17:41.280 And the truth is,

00:17:42.060 it's not.

00:17:42.520 I mean, like you said,

00:17:43.440 so we were talking about

00:17:44.260 that in the context

00:17:44.840 of our show,

00:17:45.360 but our relationship

00:17:46.140 is such over the past

00:17:47.120 year and a half or so

00:17:47.960 that I have no problem.

00:17:49.380 If you need an introduction

00:17:50.100 to someone that I know,

00:17:51.480 I have no problem doing that.

00:17:52.700 One, it takes five minutes,

00:17:54.080 maybe six if I have to send

00:17:55.900 them an email first

00:17:56.660 asking if they would

00:17:57.740 like the introduction, right?

00:17:58.720 But nonetheless,

00:17:59.440 it doesn't take that long

00:18:00.440 and it provides value

00:18:01.760 not just for you,

00:18:02.940 but if I believe it's for them,

00:18:04.780 I have no problem doing that.

00:18:05.680 That's not a big ask,

00:18:06.800 but I think a lot of times

00:18:07.560 people get nervous

00:18:08.220 because they feel like it is.

00:18:09.640 And I think that stems

00:18:10.860 from that feeling

00:18:11.580 that, okay,

00:18:11.880 maybe you're taking

00:18:12.520 and you haven't given enough.

00:18:13.640 And so if that's the case,

00:18:14.740 take a pause.

00:18:15.900 But if it's not,

00:18:16.620 you really shouldn't feel

00:18:17.440 that bad about it

00:18:18.160 if you've built up

00:18:18.920 that relationship over time.

00:18:20.700 How do you know

00:18:21.420 when to ask for something?

00:18:24.680 Like, how do you know

00:18:25.260 when you've made

00:18:25.720 enough deposits,

00:18:26.480 if you will,

00:18:27.060 or have enough social capital

00:18:28.260 to then go and say,

00:18:29.960 hey, here's what I'm looking for.

00:18:31.180 Here's what I need.

00:18:31.800 Can you help me?

00:18:32.600 Is that just a feeling?

00:18:33.900 I mean, obviously,

00:18:34.580 you're not necessarily

00:18:35.400 keeping score,

00:18:36.680 I don't think,

00:18:37.300 but how do you find that time?

00:18:39.240 Yeah, I mean,

00:18:39.540 there's really no formula

00:18:40.440 because, again,

00:18:40.940 you really should not

00:18:42.120 be keeping score, right?

00:18:43.500 Right.

00:18:43.760 And if you are,

00:18:44.480 you definitely are doing it wrong

00:18:45.500 and you are that sleazy person 0.93

00:18:46.720 you feel like worried about being, right?

00:18:48.360 Sure, exactly.

00:18:49.160 So that first feeling

00:18:50.080 is what we talked about, right?

00:18:51.200 That do you feel

00:18:52.180 some hesitancy to even ask,

00:18:53.780 well, maybe that's because

00:18:54.460 you haven't made enough deposits.

00:18:56.200 The second thing is

00:18:56.920 I would never ask somebody

00:18:58.420 for a favor,

00:18:59.540 whether it's an introduction

00:19:00.340 or whether it's,

00:19:01.400 you know, to do something

00:19:02.080 or, you know,

00:19:02.700 Ryan, can I come on your show

00:19:04.000 and talk about this book?

00:19:05.300 I would never ask someone

00:19:06.520 to do something

00:19:07.120 that if I were in their shoes,

00:19:08.620 I wouldn't want to do.

00:19:09.720 Does that make sense?

00:19:10.820 You don't want to make people

00:19:11.760 feel uncomfortable.

00:19:13.100 Exactly, right.

00:19:13.980 And so I know you,

00:19:14.780 I've gotten to know you,

00:19:15.580 I know your show,

00:19:16.280 I know the Order of Men audience,

00:19:17.380 I know that I almost wrote about it

00:19:19.100 in the book, right?

00:19:20.260 But then it was sort of like,

00:19:21.060 well, I don't want to publish this book.

00:19:22.520 Almost, come on, man.

00:19:23.160 I know, I'm sorry, man.

00:19:24.500 It's a long, long story.

00:19:26.040 Next one, next one.

00:19:27.620 Actually, you're dead on

00:19:28.600 because I already know

00:19:29.080 what the idea for the next book is

00:19:30.440 and you're a great example of it, right?

00:19:31.880 Awesome.

00:19:32.200 So I'm thinking about this book

00:19:33.400 and how it fits

00:19:34.140 and how it serves this community

00:19:35.380 that I know about.

00:19:36.320 And I'm like, well, yeah,

00:19:37.560 if I had a six or seven inch

00:19:39.060 long red beard,

00:19:39.880 I would bring me on the show too.

00:19:41.420 So I don't feel bad about it.

00:19:42.940 Right, right.

00:19:43.680 So the first question is that

00:19:44.780 if you have some hesitancy

00:19:45.780 because you feel like

00:19:46.600 maybe you're taking,

00:19:47.360 maybe it's because

00:19:47.760 you haven't given enough.

00:19:48.860 But the second is,

00:19:49.560 can you empathize,

00:19:50.340 put yourself in the other person's shoes?

00:19:51.800 If you would do it,

00:19:53.540 if they asked you,

00:19:54.440 then you shouldn't feel bad

00:19:55.420 about asking for it.

00:19:56.740 Now, the key with that second question

00:19:58.200 is you have to have known

00:19:59.260 the person long enough

00:20:00.280 to be able to empathize

00:20:01.520 and put yourself in their shoes.

00:20:02.620 So if you haven't

00:20:03.640 and you don't know them that well,

00:20:05.060 then yeah,

00:20:06.060 you probably shouldn't ask yet.

00:20:07.300 You should just keep that column blank

00:20:08.860 for a little while

00:20:09.500 and focus on building up

00:20:10.440 that relationship.

00:20:10.940 Much like you probably do

00:20:12.180 with your list and your board.

00:20:13.720 There's names on there

00:20:14.340 that have probably been there

00:20:15.100 for six or nine months

00:20:16.380 because it's just,

00:20:17.080 ah, we're not there yet.

00:20:17.940 The relationship's not there yet.

00:20:19.400 Right.

00:20:19.840 Yeah.

00:20:20.060 And this does take

00:20:20.760 a lot of intentionality.

00:20:22.480 It takes being deliberate.

00:20:23.760 It takes time,

00:20:25.240 attention, focus.

00:20:26.660 This isn't,

00:20:27.220 let me just check these off the list.

00:20:28.660 It's how can I nurture

00:20:29.580 and develop these relationships?

00:20:30.800 Because for me,

00:20:31.920 it goes well beyond

00:20:32.860 just having an individual

00:20:33.880 on the podcast.

00:20:34.780 That's great.

00:20:35.380 That's wonderful.

00:20:36.480 But I'm looking for

00:20:37.460 a long-term working relationship

00:20:39.820 with these people

00:20:40.440 and I need to come at it

00:20:41.380 with that approach.

00:20:42.760 Right.

00:20:42.940 And you shouldn't feel bad

00:20:43.740 about being into,

00:20:44.380 I mean,

00:20:44.640 this is the funny thing to me

00:20:45.900 is we feel like

00:20:46.500 as soon as you become intentional,

00:20:48.200 people then jump right

00:20:49.340 from intentional

00:20:49.900 to feeling like

00:20:50.660 it's too instrumental

00:20:51.520 and sleazy. 0.71

00:20:52.320 But like,

00:20:52.640 tell that to my wife 1.00

00:20:53.700 whom we observe

00:20:54.460 a regular date night,

00:20:55.380 right?

00:20:55.780 Tell that to my kids 0.88

00:20:56.580 for whom I make sure

00:20:57.460 that we have a,

00:20:58.180 you know,

00:20:58.340 structured conversation

00:20:59.360 every single day.

00:21:00.260 Like if you care

00:21:01.320 about something in your life,

00:21:02.460 you're intentional about it.

00:21:03.480 So why shouldn't

00:21:04.140 all of your connections

00:21:05.060 and all of your relationships,

00:21:06.480 why shouldn't you care

00:21:07.120 about them enough

00:21:07.640 to be intentional about those?

00:21:09.020 Yeah,

00:21:09.280 that's a good point.

00:21:10.300 One of the topics

00:21:11.360 that you bring up

00:21:12.100 is this idea

00:21:13.180 of weak ties.

00:21:14.080 And what's really interesting

00:21:15.100 in going through this book

00:21:16.160 is over the past,

00:21:17.880 I'd say two weeks,

00:21:19.060 I've had some opportunities

00:21:20.620 present themselves

00:21:21.580 that have come

00:21:22.700 from weak ties.

00:21:24.340 I didn't even know

00:21:24.980 these opportunities existed.

00:21:26.200 And frankly,

00:21:26.900 these opportunities

00:21:27.560 were presented to me,

00:21:28.560 but they came through

00:21:29.880 friends of friends of friends.

00:21:31.920 So I'm really curious

00:21:32.900 what you say

00:21:33.640 about weak ties

00:21:34.580 because I think

00:21:34.980 a lot of times

00:21:35.520 we just focus on

00:21:36.380 our immediate circle

00:21:37.400 as opposed to going

00:21:38.440 two, three, four steps

00:21:40.000 deeper than that.

00:21:41.120 Yeah,

00:21:41.340 the scientist nerd in me

00:21:42.440 has got to clarify.

00:21:43.500 So weak ties,

00:21:44.540 or we also use the term

00:21:45.440 in the book,

00:21:45.840 dormant ties,

00:21:46.980 are people that you already

00:21:48.100 have that connection to,

00:21:49.080 right?

00:21:49.240 So a weak tie is someone

00:21:50.080 you know,

00:21:50.560 but you don't know

00:21:51.040 them that well.

00:21:51.940 Most mornings,

00:21:52.760 11 a.m.,

00:21:53.740 I'm at the gym.

00:21:54.400 There's a group of guys

00:21:55.100 I work out with.

00:21:55.740 I don't know most of them

00:21:56.820 all that well,

00:21:57.780 right?

00:21:57.920 I know their names

00:21:58.580 and I know their occupations

00:21:59.600 and that's it.

00:22:00.060 That's a weak tie.

00:22:01.060 Then you have a dormant tie,

00:22:02.000 which is someone

00:22:02.380 you knew really well,

00:22:03.520 but for some reason

00:22:04.420 that relationship

00:22:05.180 fell by the wayside,

00:22:06.900 right?

00:22:07.080 Either you moved

00:22:07.960 or they switched jobs

00:22:09.160 or something like that.

00:22:09.960 So you haven't met them

00:22:11.220 that well.

00:22:11.680 So those are weak ties

00:22:12.380 and dormant ties.

00:22:12.940 Then what you said,

00:22:13.540 that friend of a friend

00:22:14.200 connection,

00:22:14.680 that's the sort of

00:22:15.380 first and second degree

00:22:16.440 of separation out.

00:22:18.280 Makes sense.

00:22:18.500 Now what you hinted at

00:22:19.660 is that most of the value

00:22:21.660 that's ready to be extracted

00:22:23.520 from a network,

00:22:24.420 most of the opportunities,

00:22:25.680 the new information,

00:22:26.760 the referrals,

00:22:27.600 et cetera,

00:22:28.260 come from either that extended

00:22:29.680 one or two degrees

00:22:30.480 of separation out network

00:22:31.620 or the weak ties network.

00:22:33.240 The thing that I find fascinating

00:22:34.680 is that most of us

00:22:36.020 do exactly what you said.

00:22:37.400 We ignore those weak ties.

00:22:39.360 We talk to sort of

00:22:40.140 just our circle of friends.

00:22:41.840 Jobs are a great example.

00:22:42.880 So I'm going to use this

00:22:43.400 as an example.

00:22:43.960 We're looking for new work,

00:22:45.080 so we talk to our

00:22:45.860 close circle of friends

00:22:46.720 and then we just get on

00:22:48.380 monster.com or Indeed

00:22:49.820 or CareerBuilder or whatever

00:22:50.900 and start sending cold resumes

00:22:53.280 out to jobs at companies

00:22:54.740 we've never heard of.

00:22:55.860 We skip over where the most

00:22:57.480 value in the network is,

00:22:58.560 which are the people

00:22:59.240 we haven't talked to in a while

00:23:00.240 and the people that it takes

00:23:01.560 one degree or two degrees

00:23:02.840 of separation to introduce us to.

00:23:04.400 And so, you know,

00:23:05.000 you're living it right now

00:23:05.920 with between those two

00:23:06.860 categories of people

00:23:07.760 are all of the opportunities.

00:23:09.300 That's most people's life

00:23:10.360 all of the time.

00:23:11.520 The difference is we sort of

00:23:12.940 jump out of that

00:23:14.040 and that's again goes back

00:23:15.020 to that idea

00:23:15.420 of the hidden network.

00:23:16.260 That's the part that we need

00:23:17.160 to get a better understanding

00:23:18.120 of and map better

00:23:18.960 because that's where

00:23:19.740 the opportunities are.

00:23:21.080 I think the argument

00:23:21.720 in that though

00:23:22.340 is that this does take

00:23:23.640 a lot of time

00:23:24.660 and it's significantly easier

00:23:26.660 obviously to continue

00:23:28.580 to connect with

00:23:29.380 the same people

00:23:30.260 that you've always

00:23:31.000 connected with.

00:23:31.860 It's more efficient.

00:23:33.340 Frankly, it's more safe.

00:23:35.020 So how do you structure in,

00:23:37.700 if this is even the right term,

00:23:39.460 the time and energy

00:23:40.660 and resources

00:23:41.440 to invest in some

00:23:43.020 of these weak ties

00:23:44.020 or tears, if you will?

00:23:46.960 Yeah.

00:23:47.240 So I mean,

00:23:47.540 invest is actually

00:23:48.240 a good word

00:23:48.720 and investing

00:23:49.440 and getting your money

00:23:50.420 to the point

00:23:50.860 where you can retire

00:23:52.200 takes a lot of work.

00:23:53.700 The difference is

00:23:54.260 it's not that much work

00:23:55.240 spread out over a lot of time

00:23:56.720 and that's, I think,

00:23:57.480 the same approach.

00:23:58.740 What I recommend to people

00:23:59.760 is every week

00:24:01.220 to make it a habit

00:24:02.040 to sort of do two exercises.

00:24:04.060 The first is reach back out

00:24:05.240 to a weak or a dormant tie.

00:24:06.860 Just send an email,

00:24:08.320 a text message.

00:24:09.460 I usually say something text.

00:24:11.080 That's sort of my generation

00:24:12.360 feels weird

00:24:12.980 when the phone rings

00:24:13.900 unannounced, right?

00:24:15.200 I don't like having

00:24:15.860 unplanned phone calls.

00:24:16.840 Well, and I think

00:24:17.400 there's a hidden agenda

00:24:18.300 like, hey, how's it going?

00:24:19.380 And then all of a sudden

00:24:19.980 it's like, here,

00:24:20.700 let me invite you

00:24:21.220 to my network marketing scheme

00:24:22.900 or whatever.

00:24:23.500 Right.

00:24:24.080 Totally.

00:24:24.620 But that's also generational.

00:24:25.720 So whatever's

00:24:26.280 a more sort of friendly thing.

00:24:27.640 So email, text message,

00:24:29.100 Facebook message,

00:24:29.860 whatever,

00:24:30.580 out to one week tie

00:24:31.980 every week

00:24:32.740 and just catch up.

00:24:34.000 Like maybe you're looking

00:24:34.740 for a phone call.

00:24:35.420 You'd take 15 minutes

00:24:36.300 and catch up sometime.

00:24:37.320 Maybe you do it

00:24:38.420 just strictly in that.

00:24:39.520 But going back

00:24:40.480 through someone

00:24:40.880 you haven't talked to

00:24:41.740 in six to 18 months

00:24:43.460 and reconnecting

00:24:44.540 once a week

00:24:45.040 and then once a week

00:24:45.780 I try and ask

00:24:46.600 someone in a conversation

00:24:48.060 the question,

00:24:49.280 hey, who do you know

00:24:50.160 in blank, right?

00:24:51.760 And I'm not doing it

00:24:52.520 with an agenda.

00:24:53.660 This is a big thing.

00:24:54.400 I'm not saying like,

00:24:55.160 oh, you know what?

00:24:55.880 I want to know more

00:24:57.480 about network marketing.

00:24:58.800 So who do you know

00:24:59.340 in this company?

00:24:59.960 It's not that.

00:25:00.840 That's a weird example.

00:25:01.940 I'm not sure I want to know

00:25:02.720 anyone more

00:25:03.300 in network marketing.

00:25:03.900 But the point is

00:25:05.580 we're always trying

00:25:06.880 to ask that

00:25:07.600 so we have a sense of it.

00:25:08.640 So who do you know

00:25:09.200 that works in television?

00:25:10.700 Who do you know

00:25:11.000 that works in oil and gas, right?

00:25:12.460 Hey, you know,

00:25:12.940 I just heard this thing

00:25:13.940 about the public school system.

00:25:15.440 Who do you know

00:25:15.920 that works for this

00:25:16.940 public school district?

00:25:17.660 Because I have a couple

00:25:18.120 questions or whatever.

00:25:19.340 But it's again,

00:25:19.780 not looking for a big favor,

00:25:21.240 not looking for an agenda,

00:25:22.160 whatever.

00:25:22.840 Really, you're just asking

00:25:23.940 people in your network

00:25:24.980 who they might know

00:25:25.760 in another one

00:25:26.280 so that you've got a sense

00:25:27.180 of who's connected

00:25:27.880 to whom.

00:25:29.140 And I think there's

00:25:29.760 two things there.

00:25:30.360 One, it's mapping out

00:25:31.980 your fringes

00:25:33.100 of your network for you.

00:25:34.240 Over time,

00:25:35.400 you're getting a better

00:25:36.360 sense of who's connected.

00:25:37.560 The other thing is

00:25:38.060 the more often

00:25:38.620 you ask that question,

00:25:40.280 the more likely

00:25:41.360 you are to get responses

00:25:42.320 because over time

00:25:43.620 people realize

00:25:44.160 you don't have an agenda

00:25:44.880 every time you ask

00:25:45.480 that question.

00:25:46.020 You're just curious.

00:25:46.740 You just kind of want to know

00:25:47.620 who might used to have

00:25:48.580 worked in television, right?

00:25:49.580 Or who might work

00:25:50.780 for aerospace

00:25:51.420 or what have you, right?

00:25:52.520 You're just kind of trying

00:25:53.360 to figure it out

00:25:54.060 and get to know.

00:25:55.200 And then when you actually

00:25:55.880 do need to know somebody

00:25:56.900 in that, again,

00:25:57.480 you're more likely

00:25:57.980 to get all that information.

00:25:58.980 I think the problem

00:25:59.740 is most of us

00:26:00.520 don't ever think about

00:26:02.140 other than the four

00:26:03.020 or five people

00:26:03.640 that we enjoy hanging out with.

00:26:04.940 We don't ever think

00:26:05.360 about the rest of the network.

00:26:06.500 We never make those

00:26:07.320 little dollar cost

00:26:09.020 average investing

00:26:10.020 little pings every week

00:26:11.620 or every month or so.

00:26:12.720 And then when we finally

00:26:13.480 need it, we're like,

00:26:14.280 oh, shoot,

00:26:14.840 there's not much value

00:26:15.580 in this network

00:26:16.140 because I haven't been

00:26:16.820 investing into it.

00:26:17.960 Or we just go ahead

00:26:18.680 and make the contact anyways

00:26:19.880 and it comes across

00:26:20.660 as disingenuous

00:26:21.440 because you haven't talked

00:26:22.180 to the dude for 10 years.

00:26:23.940 Exactly.

00:26:24.640 Exactly.

00:26:25.000 I know you've heard me

00:26:28.620 talk about the Iron Council

00:26:29.760 by now,

00:26:30.240 but you probably

00:26:30.780 haven't heard me

00:26:31.600 talk a whole lot

00:26:32.360 about the specifics

00:26:33.480 of what all goes on inside.

00:26:35.660 That is by design

00:26:36.840 as we're really only

00:26:37.660 interested in bringing

00:26:38.600 on men who are

00:26:39.920 extremely,

00:26:41.120 extremely interested

00:26:41.880 in improving

00:26:42.380 every facet

00:26:43.260 of their lives.

00:26:44.160 But that said,

00:26:45.200 I do want to share

00:26:46.280 with you one new feature

00:26:47.360 that we've added

00:26:47.860 over the past two months

00:26:48.840 and that is guest experts.

00:26:50.760 Last month,

00:26:51.460 we had Rourke Denver.

00:26:52.340 He's a Navy SEAL

00:26:53.080 and New York Times

00:26:53.660 best-selling author.

00:26:54.480 We interviewed him

00:26:55.100 a couple of weeks ago.

00:26:56.380 He joined us

00:26:57.280 and this month

00:26:58.440 we have Jeff Rose.

00:26:59.380 He's a financial advisor.

00:27:00.440 He's also a best-selling author.

00:27:01.820 He's a blogger,

00:27:02.440 a YouTuber.

00:27:03.480 He's going to be joining us

00:27:04.420 to talk about

00:27:04.960 all things money.

00:27:06.460 These are men

00:27:06.940 that most people

00:27:07.720 normally don't have access to,

00:27:09.300 but I realized

00:27:09.820 that there are

00:27:10.280 so many experts out there

00:27:11.720 who are significantly

00:27:12.620 more qualified

00:27:13.620 to talk about

00:27:14.820 certain topics

00:27:15.520 than I am

00:27:16.380 and where I have access

00:27:17.560 to some of these

00:27:18.380 amazing individuals,

00:27:19.680 I wanted to make sure

00:27:20.360 that the brothers

00:27:20.820 inside the Iron Council

00:27:21.720 have access to them as well.

00:27:22.940 So if you are ready

00:27:24.000 to tap into

00:27:24.580 these expert guests

00:27:25.540 and all the other benefits

00:27:26.660 that come from

00:27:27.140 the Iron Council,

00:27:27.940 head to

00:27:28.500 orderofman.com

00:27:29.900 slash ironcouncil.

00:27:31.240 Again,

00:27:31.740 I'd encourage you

00:27:32.340 to learn a little bit more

00:27:33.500 and join us.

00:27:34.640 Again,

00:27:34.880 orderofman.com

00:27:36.080 slash ironcouncil.

00:27:37.480 Do that guys

00:27:38.160 after the show.

00:27:39.040 In the meantime,

00:27:39.480 we'll get back

00:27:40.040 to the conversation

00:27:40.700 with David.

00:27:42.360 One of the things

00:27:43.260 that I've done

00:27:43.940 that has been helpful

00:27:44.680 for me

00:27:45.460 is getting people

00:27:47.640 together

00:27:48.160 in groups

00:27:49.320 for activities

00:27:51.160 of interest.

00:27:51.660 So for example,

00:27:52.440 we'll do fight night

00:27:53.440 or I'll invite

00:27:54.480 a bunch of guys

00:27:55.300 to go to the game

00:27:56.540 or go bowling

00:27:57.300 or just go out

00:27:58.220 to dinner

00:27:58.700 and we start

00:27:59.700 operating in these groups

00:28:01.100 and we have 5,

00:28:01.940 10,

00:28:02.260 15 guys together

00:28:03.360 and I encourage

00:28:04.500 them to invite

00:28:05.020 their buddies

00:28:05.540 and this is a

00:28:06.520 really powerful way

00:28:07.420 that I've been able

00:28:08.080 to leverage

00:28:09.060 my current network

00:28:10.280 to be exposed

00:28:11.040 to other guys.

00:28:12.160 Is this the concept

00:28:13.060 of silos and clusters

00:28:14.460 or is this something

00:28:15.120 different?

00:28:16.060 Close,

00:28:16.440 yes.

00:28:16.700 This is actually

00:28:17.300 a great example

00:28:18.100 of what in the book

00:28:18.840 we call

00:28:19.140 The Shared Activities

00:28:20.020 Principle.

00:28:20.760 Yeah.

00:28:21.420 So for those of you

00:28:22.220 who like you get hives 1.00

00:28:23.400 and you break out

00:28:24.000 into a cold sweat

00:28:24.700 at the thought

00:28:25.200 of going to a network

00:28:26.180 mixer or something

00:28:27.040 like that

00:28:27.540 where the purpose

00:28:28.160 is to meet new people,

00:28:29.580 you have my permission

00:28:30.400 to never attend

00:28:31.500 one of those

00:28:32.180 ever again

00:28:32.900 because there's

00:28:33.980 a series of experiments

00:28:35.220 that demonstrate

00:28:35.740 they don't work.

00:28:36.740 I mean,

00:28:36.880 my favorite was literally

00:28:37.760 like they did an experiment

00:28:38.640 where they monitored,

00:28:39.960 they used the radio

00:28:40.660 frequency tag

00:28:41.660 to monitor

00:28:42.260 who everyone talked

00:28:43.280 to over the course

00:28:44.000 of one of these

00:28:44.420 networking mixers

00:28:45.200 and despite everyone

00:28:46.780 saying,

00:28:47.720 I want to meet new people

00:28:48.580 and despite the average

00:28:49.640 person having 66 new people

00:28:52.000 in this room of 100

00:28:53.080 that they could have

00:28:54.360 talked to,

00:28:55.460 the average person

00:28:56.280 spent more than 50%

00:28:57.480 of their time

00:28:58.000 talking to the one-third

00:28:59.360 of the room

00:28:59.820 that they already knew.

00:29:01.180 Interesting, yeah.

00:29:01.880 By definition,

00:29:02.580 the most successful networker

00:29:03.760 in the room

00:29:04.160 was the bartender

00:29:04.920 because he was the only one

00:29:05.780 that talked to everybody.

00:29:06.640 And he probably didn't know

00:29:07.460 anybody going into the thing.

00:29:09.000 Exactly.

00:29:09.640 So the reason we do that

00:29:10.660 is that we cling to people

00:29:11.980 who we know,

00:29:12.860 we cling to people

00:29:13.460 who even if we're meeting

00:29:14.380 new people,

00:29:14.900 who look like us,

00:29:15.700 act like us,

00:29:16.360 work in the same industry

00:29:17.220 as us, etc.

00:29:17.900 And that's why

00:29:18.560 these mixers don't work. 1.00

00:29:20.520 That's why networking,

00:29:21.600 if that's what we're going to call

00:29:22.600 going to these events,

00:29:23.620 doesn't work.

00:29:24.300 A much better approach

00:29:25.500 is exactly what you said,

00:29:27.060 to invite people

00:29:28.020 to partake

00:29:28.620 in a shared activity.

00:29:29.860 So you mentioned Fight Night,

00:29:31.240 right?

00:29:31.360 One of the things

00:29:31.740 that continues to amaze me

00:29:33.220 about Jiu-Jitsu

00:29:33.860 and mixed martial arts

00:29:34.940 is the diversity

00:29:36.160 of types of people

00:29:37.380 that are interested in that.

00:29:38.700 So it's a great example

00:29:39.720 of a shared activity.

00:29:40.620 There's others,

00:29:41.080 I mean,

00:29:41.240 volunteering for non-profits,

00:29:43.380 inviting people

00:29:44.040 into we're going to start

00:29:45.260 this sort of writer's community.

00:29:46.420 So whatever it is,

00:29:47.100 a lot of times

00:29:47.840 these activities

00:29:48.640 draw a more diverse

00:29:49.740 set of people

00:29:50.360 than we would talk to

00:29:51.680 if we were in a room

00:29:52.600 full of strangers.

00:29:53.560 So they're a better way

00:29:54.980 to meet new people

00:29:56.500 but also meet new people

00:29:57.500 who are different from us

00:29:58.780 by partaking in that

00:30:00.100 sort of shared activity.

00:30:01.140 So no,

00:30:01.460 that's brilliant.

00:30:02.180 The Fight Nights

00:30:02.740 and then asking people

00:30:03.840 to invite their friends,

00:30:05.000 that leverages that

00:30:06.040 first and second

00:30:06.760 degrees of separation out.

00:30:08.320 So you're bringing

00:30:08.840 an even more diverse

00:30:09.940 pool of people in.

00:30:10.680 One of the things

00:30:11.780 that a lot of guys

00:30:12.580 that I talk with

00:30:13.500 have challenges with

00:30:15.260 is building a

00:30:16.820 quote-unquote

00:30:17.380 band of brothers.

00:30:18.340 Like they know

00:30:18.860 they need other men 0.99

00:30:19.720 in their lives

00:30:20.320 as buddies

00:30:21.260 just with the camaraderie

00:30:22.340 and the brotherhood

00:30:22.860 and everything

00:30:23.100 that comes with that

00:30:24.020 and yet they don't know

00:30:25.700 how to build it

00:30:26.520 because the last thing

00:30:27.440 they want to do

00:30:28.100 is have a connection

00:30:29.320 for example

00:30:29.920 with the guy

00:30:30.520 that they work out

00:30:31.380 with in the morning

00:30:31.980 and then like

00:30:33.580 how do you make

00:30:34.280 the next move?

00:30:35.440 I know this sounds funny.

00:30:36.760 I think what they're

00:30:37.380 concerned about is like

00:30:38.200 how do I connect

00:30:38.880 with this guy

00:30:39.300 without asking him

00:30:40.040 on a date essentially?

00:30:41.960 Right, yeah.

00:30:42.420 And I think that

00:30:43.280 the best way to do that

00:30:44.540 is to invite guys

00:30:46.540 to these shared activities.

00:30:47.500 Like we'll put together

00:30:48.600 for example

00:30:49.580 a foursome with golf

00:30:50.660 and I'll tell a guy like

00:30:51.660 hey this is somebody

00:30:52.300 I connect with

00:30:52.880 somebody I want to

00:30:53.400 get to know better.

00:30:54.780 Hey so and so

00:30:55.700 we're going to be

00:30:56.460 golfing on Saturday

00:30:57.700 there's already

00:30:58.240 three of us going

00:30:59.040 would you like

00:30:59.480 to go with us?

00:31:00.940 And that has

00:31:01.880 eliminated a lot

00:31:02.980 of the barriers

00:31:03.500 to building a band

00:31:04.220 of brothers.

00:31:05.440 Yeah, no I

00:31:06.000 exactly right.

00:31:06.880 And so this isn't in book

00:31:08.180 but one of my good friends

00:31:09.220 is a marital counselor

00:31:10.140 and he actually uses

00:31:11.100 this analogy all the time

00:31:12.020 that sort of

00:31:12.700 in general

00:31:13.480 there's always exceptions

00:31:14.640 but in general

00:31:15.440 women tend to bond 1.00

00:31:16.380 face to face

00:31:17.200 and men tend to bond

00:31:18.220 face out looking

00:31:19.140 at something else

00:31:19.820 right so doing

00:31:20.460 a shared activity

00:31:21.160 whether it's golf

00:31:22.020 whether it's watching

00:31:22.960 something whatever

00:31:23.760 you can't really invite

00:31:24.740 your friend to go

00:31:25.640 get coffee right

00:31:26.680 because it just

00:31:27.260 doesn't sound

00:31:28.040 entertaining.

00:31:29.280 It sounds like a date.

00:31:30.380 Right exactly.

00:31:31.100 The other thing

00:31:31.540 I want to mention too

00:31:32.160 that you said

00:31:32.580 is that idea

00:31:33.400 of the importance

00:31:34.160 of a band of brothers

00:31:34.920 this is that

00:31:35.900 seek out silos

00:31:36.720 thing that we were

00:31:37.300 talking about.

00:31:37.920 Almost everybody

00:31:38.640 if you're looking

00:31:39.200 to make an impact

00:31:39.880 now whether it's

00:31:40.860 in family life

00:31:41.980 community life

00:31:42.620 etc which is what

00:31:43.440 you in the order

00:31:44.460 of man community

00:31:45.140 I see most often

00:31:46.260 sort of talking about

00:31:46.920 or whether it's

00:31:47.480 your vocation

00:31:48.160 everybody needs

00:31:49.080 sort of that

00:31:49.520 community of people

00:31:50.380 that they can be

00:31:51.020 a little bit more

00:31:51.580 vulnerable with

00:31:52.160 that they can get

00:31:52.740 critiques on

00:31:53.420 that group of people

00:31:54.340 that they're invested

00:31:55.060 in making people

00:31:55.720 in the group better

00:31:56.280 and so the group

00:31:56.860 is invested in

00:31:57.440 making them better.

00:31:58.440 It's interesting

00:31:58.880 because particularly

00:31:59.480 in like creative

00:32:00.400 endeavors we see

00:32:01.240 almost every

00:32:01.940 significant creative

00:32:03.280 person in this

00:32:04.080 mythical lone

00:32:05.260 creator slaving away

00:32:06.460 at a writing shack

00:32:07.340 or what have you

00:32:08.020 and the truth is

00:32:08.520 they're almost

00:32:08.920 always embedded

00:32:09.900 in some kind

00:32:10.560 of community.

00:32:11.540 The trick is

00:32:11.940 they don't stay

00:32:12.460 in that community

00:32:13.120 right just like

00:32:13.780 a ship shouldn't

00:32:14.320 stay in the harbor

00:32:14.960 but we all need

00:32:16.160 a harbor.

00:32:17.860 Yeah 100%

00:32:18.820 and sometimes

00:32:19.440 you just don't

00:32:19.980 even recognize

00:32:20.600 what those people

00:32:21.180 are a part of.

00:32:22.160 I think a lot

00:32:22.540 of the times

00:32:22.900 we get this

00:32:23.540 through media

00:32:24.360 even through

00:32:24.800 the movies

00:32:25.240 I mean for guys

00:32:26.160 for example

00:32:26.620 we think about

00:32:27.300 James Bond

00:32:28.340 and Jason Bourne

00:32:29.280 and we see those guys

00:32:30.120 and those are like

00:32:30.740 the epitome of

00:32:32.360 masculinity right

00:32:33.400 and they're

00:32:34.320 the lone wolf

00:32:35.060 and yet in reality

00:32:36.100 it just doesn't

00:32:36.860 play out like that.

00:32:37.680 We need other people

00:32:38.700 in our lives

00:32:39.400 it's just not as

00:32:40.180 sexier glamorous

00:32:40.880 as what we see

00:32:41.480 on the silver screen.

00:32:42.920 Well and arguably

00:32:43.620 it's what we remember

00:32:44.700 from those movies right

00:32:45.460 so one of the things

00:32:45.940 I love about

00:32:46.480 some of the most

00:32:47.180 recent James Bond

00:32:48.240 are the active role

00:32:50.040 that Moneypenny

00:32:50.940 that Q 0.98

00:32:51.580 that M 1.00

00:32:52.360 are all playing

00:32:53.120 right like the most

00:32:53.920 recent one

00:32:54.460 it literally is

00:32:55.400 the four of them

00:32:56.160 against the world

00:32:56.840 right not just him

00:32:57.940 right

00:32:58.100 yeah that's true

00:32:58.680 good point

00:32:59.140 and arguably

00:33:00.220 those people

00:33:00.800 have been in there

00:33:01.480 sort of all the time

00:33:02.460 I don't know what it is

00:33:03.860 maybe it's our

00:33:04.480 individualistic culture

00:33:05.540 maybe it's some

00:33:06.780 myth of masculinity

00:33:07.820 I have no idea

00:33:08.420 what it is

00:33:08.760 but we often forget

00:33:09.880 how many people

00:33:10.920 are involved

00:33:11.960 in that self-made man

00:33:13.180 the whole idea

00:33:13.800 of a self-made man

00:33:14.480 is kind of a myth

00:33:15.220 there is usually

00:33:16.080 a group of people

00:33:17.400 behind it

00:33:17.880 that are helping

00:33:18.340 that man get made

00:33:19.580 100%

00:33:20.500 it's hard to go

00:33:21.380 through this book

00:33:22.200 and just this topic

00:33:23.020 in general

00:33:23.520 and just isolate

00:33:24.420 one thing

00:33:24.960 and say

00:33:25.280 if there's one thing

00:33:26.180 you could do

00:33:26.580 this is the most

00:33:27.340 important thing

00:33:27.980 but for me

00:33:29.040 in going through this

00:33:29.900 one of the things

00:33:30.960 that really jumped out

00:33:31.920 to me

00:33:32.420 is this idea

00:33:33.640 of being a super connector

00:33:34.820 and I take pride

00:33:36.240 in being somebody

00:33:36.940 who is well connected

00:33:38.720 and willing and able

00:33:40.360 to make connections

00:33:41.400 for other people

00:33:42.220 because I think

00:33:43.140 that's one of the most

00:33:44.120 powerful compliments

00:33:45.460 that I could pay

00:33:46.240 to both parties

00:33:47.140 I'm making introductions to

00:33:48.380 can you talk to me

00:33:49.140 about the principles

00:33:49.880 of being a super connector

00:33:51.620 to explain what this term

00:33:53.380 super connector

00:33:53.960 that we're talking about is

00:33:55.000 so if we were to graph

00:33:56.640 the number of connections

00:33:57.680 that every single person has

00:33:58.920 we tend to think of it

00:33:59.720 as a normative distribution

00:34:00.860 so mathematically

00:34:01.640 that's that inverted U

00:34:03.440 that bell curve

00:34:04.220 that you always see

00:34:04.980 and some people

00:34:05.960 are way off

00:34:07.240 and have a lot

00:34:07.820 but everybody kind of

00:34:08.860 clusters towards the middle

00:34:09.880 but that's not actually

00:34:11.060 what we see

00:34:11.760 if we survey people

00:34:12.860 about how many people

00:34:13.740 do you know

00:34:14.320 we don't see that

00:34:15.640 we see the opposite

00:34:16.500 of that

00:34:16.880 which maybe it's not

00:34:17.700 the opposite

00:34:18.200 because the opposite

00:34:18.760 would be a U

00:34:19.440 but we see a power law

00:34:20.780 which is fundamentally

00:34:21.640 a totally different equation

00:34:23.080 and I know I'm getting

00:34:23.940 a little nerdy

00:34:24.500 in mathematic here

00:34:25.220 but a power law

00:34:25.920 is basically

00:34:26.480 that when you see

00:34:27.740 a big spike

00:34:28.920 right near the axes

00:34:29.820 and then a long tail

00:34:31.160 reaching out

00:34:31.820 and what that shows

00:34:32.860 is even though

00:34:33.480 we can figure out

00:34:34.140 the average number

00:34:35.280 of people

00:34:35.860 that everybody knows

00:34:37.880 some people know

00:34:38.980 10x more people

00:34:40.760 than average

00:34:41.400 over time

00:34:42.320 what we're finding

00:34:43.260 is that these are the people

00:34:44.460 that really do

00:34:45.300 keep a network together

00:34:47.120 so the term super connector

00:34:48.700 comes from the idea

00:34:49.560 that most of the connections

00:34:50.780 either go through

00:34:51.560 or happen right around

00:34:53.020 depending on the network

00:34:54.100 you're looking at

00:34:54.700 right around

00:34:55.700 some of these people

00:34:56.660 and this is not a new idea

00:34:57.720 I mean this has been

00:34:58.360 in academia

00:34:59.280 for like 30 or 40 years

00:35:00.880 Malcolm Gladwell

00:35:01.720 wrote about it

00:35:02.260 in the 90s

00:35:02.960 in the tipping point

00:35:03.680 and these are the people

00:35:04.900 that like yourself

00:35:06.540 have made a deliberate effort

00:35:07.980 to be making introductions

00:35:09.700 constantly

00:35:10.240 to be seeking out

00:35:11.320 and meeting new people

00:35:12.160 really to me

00:35:12.980 if you think about

00:35:14.100 the super connectors

00:35:15.000 as a power law

00:35:15.680 this goes back

00:35:16.260 to our investments analogy

00:35:17.640 most of the money

00:35:18.700 you make in investing

00:35:19.540 happens in the last few years

00:35:20.860 before retirement

00:35:21.600 but it happens that way

00:35:22.540 because of compound interest

00:35:23.920 and it couldn't happen

00:35:24.820 if it weren't for all

00:35:25.840 of the long tail of years

00:35:27.220 building up to that

00:35:28.020 and so you know

00:35:29.040 you become somebody like this

00:35:30.160 you didn't decide

00:35:30.820 on January 1st

00:35:31.860 I'm gonna be a super connector

00:35:32.760 and now it's a couple weeks later

00:35:34.560 and you're like

00:35:34.900 hey here we go

00:35:35.700 now I am

00:35:36.320 it takes a long

00:35:37.260 congratulations you made it

00:35:38.140 right

00:35:38.480 it takes a really long time

00:35:40.760 and I know it's tempting

00:35:41.940 to look at that and go

00:35:42.820 hey you know what

00:35:43.700 this takes a lot of work

00:35:44.620 maybe it's not worth it

00:35:45.520 but the thing that I find

00:35:46.540 fascinating about super connectors

00:35:47.900 in network science

00:35:49.160 and mathematically

00:35:49.780 is this thing that happens

00:35:51.660 to them called

00:35:52.280 preferential attachment

00:35:53.500 which is once you're the person

00:35:55.320 who is not even most connected

00:35:57.820 but more connected than average

00:35:59.260 in a network

00:35:59.960 you are more likely

00:36:01.120 to have new connections

00:36:02.220 come to you

00:36:03.300 again it's that compound

00:36:04.860 interest effect

00:36:05.620 by the way

00:36:06.100 this is the mathematical explanation

00:36:07.500 for why all of those weak ties

00:36:08.900 and first and second degrees

00:36:10.140 of separation

00:36:10.660 are giving you all of these

00:36:11.740 opportunities now

00:36:12.680 it's because you've stepped

00:36:13.700 into that preferential attachment

00:36:15.060 where you actually

00:36:15.720 don't really have to worry

00:36:17.260 about making new friends

00:36:18.320 and meeting lots of new people

00:36:19.280 the network will sort of

00:36:20.220 bring you new introductions

00:36:21.420 constantly

00:36:22.080 so a couple of different points

00:36:23.780 come up to mind

00:36:24.420 when you talk about this

00:36:25.260 number one

00:36:25.680 I think you're alluding to

00:36:27.080 in a way

00:36:27.580 the concept of

00:36:28.440 the Pareto principle

00:36:29.260 you know the 80-20%

00:36:30.740 or the 90-10

00:36:31.700 or whatever it is

00:36:32.520 80-20 is a power law

00:36:33.740 exactly yeah

00:36:34.360 I probably should have

00:36:35.180 started with that

00:36:35.820 instead I drew a graph

00:36:36.840 with my fingers

00:36:37.480 that you can't see

00:36:38.260 because it's a podcast

00:36:38.940 we'll chart it out

00:36:40.380 for the guys

00:36:40.980 if needs be

00:36:41.800 I think we get it

00:36:42.580 but the other thing

00:36:43.440 that this came to mind

00:36:44.500 is this idea of

00:36:45.960 the rich get richer

00:36:47.260 and I think that's

00:36:48.180 one of the things

00:36:48.700 that you mention in the book

00:36:49.540 and we hear that all the time

00:36:50.320 oh the rich get richer

00:36:51.180 well yeah

00:36:52.160 there's a reason

00:36:52.940 the rich get richer

00:36:53.840 one of them is

00:36:54.480 they know how to get rich

00:36:55.540 so they continue to do

00:36:56.480 those activities

00:36:57.180 are there other factors

00:36:59.080 at work here

00:36:59.940 that help expand

00:37:02.000 this preferential attachment

00:37:03.540 or the rich get richer

00:37:04.840 type concept

00:37:05.800 yeah

00:37:06.520 in social science

00:37:07.340 we call it often

00:37:08.120 a Matthew effect

00:37:09.180 there's a really puzzling

00:37:11.100 phrase from Jesus

00:37:12.300 where right after

00:37:13.040 the parable of the talents

00:37:14.140 in Matthew

00:37:14.880 obviously

00:37:15.340 where he says

00:37:16.580 you know

00:37:16.840 those who have

00:37:17.540 much more will be given

00:37:18.620 and those who don't

00:37:19.800 even that will be

00:37:20.580 taken away from them

00:37:21.300 right

00:37:21.460 most scholars are like

00:37:22.700 he's describing sort of

00:37:24.080 not the way the world should be

00:37:25.280 but the way the world is

00:37:26.280 and that's true

00:37:27.040 that's the way the world is

00:37:28.200 I like to think of it

00:37:29.060 the best probably analogy

00:37:30.240 that I can make

00:37:30.760 is it's a bit like gravity

00:37:32.040 whether it's money

00:37:32.780 whether it's the number

00:37:33.760 of connections etc

00:37:34.680 if you think about it in space

00:37:36.120 as gravity pulls things in

00:37:38.100 and the mass of something expands

00:37:40.140 because gravity keeps pulling it in

00:37:41.940 the force of gravity expands

00:37:43.500 and now can reach out further

00:37:44.600 and pull even more in

00:37:45.940 right

00:37:46.240 so this is how

00:37:46.980 every planet was formed

00:37:48.360 this is how the sun was formed

00:37:49.560 starts with a little bit of gravity

00:37:50.920 and over time

00:37:51.840 it starts adding more to it

00:37:53.540 because of that

00:37:54.080 same thing with a super connector

00:37:55.380 a super connector

00:37:56.040 has a broader network

00:37:57.660 and a wider network

00:37:59.020 and a more diverse network

00:38:00.100 than someone who isn't

00:38:01.200 so it just makes sense

00:38:02.640 that if the new connections

00:38:04.280 all come from the fringes

00:38:05.500 and you're wider

00:38:06.340 you have a bigger surface area

00:38:07.760 you have a bigger center of gravity

00:38:09.060 it just makes more sense

00:38:10.300 that more will be out there

00:38:11.540 to be drawn into your network

00:38:12.780 over time

00:38:13.320 it seems like

00:38:14.680 on the principle

00:38:15.620 around the lines of this

00:38:16.540 that at some point

00:38:18.100 this could become overwhelming

00:38:20.100 right

00:38:20.740 like there's so much going on

00:38:22.840 there's so many people

00:38:24.100 and I'm facing this

00:38:24.820 a little bit to some degree now

00:38:25.960 and I know there's people

00:38:27.040 who have significantly larger networks

00:38:28.960 than I do

00:38:29.400 how do you begin to

00:38:31.920 focus on the

00:38:34.220 either relationships

00:38:35.260 or the key principles

00:38:36.540 that make this efficient for you

00:38:39.080 when you have so much going on

00:38:41.280 oh so now I feel really uncomfortable

00:38:43.100 because I'm going to tell you

00:38:44.000 the guy that I reached out to

00:38:45.240 instead of you

00:38:45.880 is the guy named Jason Gaynor

00:38:48.500 I know Jason

00:38:49.300 yeah we've had conversations

00:38:50.620 okay so yeah

00:38:51.460 so I mean

00:38:52.400 Jason runs an event

00:38:53.360 called Mastermind Talks

00:38:54.480 that I've been to

00:38:55.000 sure

00:38:55.340 it's a phenomenal event

00:38:56.760 Jason has a network

00:38:57.900 Jason is a super connector

00:38:59.080 right

00:38:59.340 yes absolutely

00:38:59.800 and one of the things

00:39:00.500 that's happened to him

00:39:01.260 you know he's a little bit

00:39:02.300 further down that road

00:39:03.160 you're just now seeing

00:39:04.020 all these opportunities etc

00:39:05.060 one of the things

00:39:06.140 that's happened to him

00:39:06.880 is that happened

00:39:07.480 about two or three years ago

00:39:08.740 for him

00:39:09.080 and so he started now

00:39:10.100 to think about

00:39:10.760 basically pruning

00:39:12.060 like what are the relationships

00:39:13.740 that he has to cut off

00:39:15.600 and he takes it

00:39:16.180 not cut off

00:39:17.000 like we can't be friends anymore

00:39:18.380 I've unfollowed you on Twitter

00:39:19.740 right

00:39:20.060 what I mean is just

00:39:21.120 I have to be comfortable

00:39:22.160 with the idea

00:39:22.720 that some people

00:39:23.580 have to stay weak ties

00:39:25.060 that I can't be strongly connected

00:39:26.880 to everybody

00:39:27.760 and I have to make

00:39:28.640 the best super connectors

00:39:29.920 make a deliberate decision

00:39:31.820 on who that's going to be

00:39:33.220 so it's not just letting it

00:39:34.520 fall by the wayside

00:39:35.200 it is literally pruning

00:39:36.340 but then also develop a system

00:39:38.420 for lightly keeping back

00:39:39.880 in touch with them

00:39:40.560 I use a software for this

00:39:42.000 called Contactually

00:39:42.840 others use Facebook

00:39:43.960 others use a spreadsheet

00:39:45.020 whatever it is

00:39:45.640 that just sort of ping you

00:39:46.880 if it's been too long

00:39:48.100 and you haven't talked

00:39:48.720 to that person

00:39:49.280 and that's what you have to do

00:39:50.640 is you have to sort of decide

00:39:51.840 who are going to be

00:39:52.920 these strong connections

00:39:53.980 and cap that at a certain number

00:39:55.880 and everybody's a bit different

00:39:56.940 and then deliberately allow

00:39:58.960 other people to sort of

00:39:59.880 fall into that weak ties motion

00:40:01.340 because you're exactly right

00:40:02.320 it can get overwhelming

00:40:03.380 and especially when it comes

00:40:04.800 in the standpoint of opportunities

00:40:06.100 it can get really overwhelming

00:40:07.940 because who has time

00:40:08.900 to invest in every one

00:40:10.080 of those opportunities

00:40:10.740 or pursue every one

00:40:11.640 of those opportunities

00:40:12.200 you don't

00:40:13.180 so you have to make

00:40:13.940 a deliberate challenge

00:40:14.920 the interesting thing is

00:40:16.080 remember it's a power law

00:40:16.980 80-20, 90-10

00:40:18.580 so there's only about

00:40:19.380 10% of people listening

00:40:20.560 that are probably having

00:40:21.500 that problem

00:40:22.260 sure

00:40:22.520 right

00:40:22.660 but when it does

00:40:23.260 you again have to be intentional

00:40:24.960 which is why

00:40:25.580 if you're in the 90 or the 80

00:40:27.000 that don't have that problem yet

00:40:28.440 it's still why

00:40:29.480 intentionality about your relationships

00:40:31.180 is not a bad thing

00:40:32.620 because if you're doing it right

00:40:33.660 you're going to have to be

00:40:34.160 intentional eventually anyway

00:40:35.360 why not be intentional now

00:40:36.780 well not only that

00:40:37.980 but if you're not to this point

00:40:39.520 of having to worry about

00:40:40.560 quote-unquote

00:40:41.280 too many opportunities

00:40:42.280 I think being deliberate

00:40:43.680 and intentional

00:40:44.200 about your relationships

00:40:45.480 also helps you prune

00:40:47.300 the people that

00:40:48.420 even now

00:40:49.160 should not be

00:40:50.180 in your immediate circle

00:40:51.460 that are

00:40:52.260 destructive

00:40:53.300 toxic in a way

00:40:55.100 and actually ruining

00:40:56.660 your chances of

00:40:58.900 expanding and growing

00:41:00.100 and detracting

00:41:00.960 from what you're trying to do

00:41:02.120 exactly right

00:41:03.520 exactly right

00:41:04.100 one of the things

00:41:04.780 that we explore

00:41:05.700 just a little bit

00:41:07.320 in the very end

00:41:08.460 of the book

00:41:09.700 is this fascinating concept

00:41:11.320 called the three degrees

00:41:12.240 of influence

00:41:12.800 you know that phrase

00:41:13.620 show me your friends

00:41:14.320 and I'll show you your future

00:41:15.240 right

00:41:15.880 it really is true

00:41:17.240 but it's actually true

00:41:18.240 for your friends of friends

00:41:19.420 and friends of friends

00:41:20.420 of friends

00:41:21.180 right

00:41:21.600 so if you look at things

00:41:23.300 like obesity

00:41:23.900 smoking

00:41:24.480 happiness

00:41:25.220 all sorts of

00:41:26.140 fascinating studies

00:41:27.260 the two primary researchers

00:41:28.360 by this

00:41:28.740 if you just want to google it

00:41:29.680 are Nicholas Christakis

00:41:30.560 and James Fowler

00:41:31.280 they show that

00:41:32.440 there are statistically

00:41:33.320 significant influences

00:41:34.400 in your immediate network

00:41:36.040 one degree

00:41:36.620 and two degrees

00:41:37.340 of separation out

00:41:38.220 what that means

00:41:39.120 is exactly what you said

00:41:40.100 there are definitely people

00:41:41.060 you've got to be intentional

00:41:41.920 about who you prune

00:41:42.960 even if you're not

00:41:43.680 a super connector

00:41:44.300 because there are probably

00:41:45.220 people who are influencing

00:41:46.240 you in a way

00:41:46.900 that if you were

00:41:47.800 fully aware of it

00:41:49.140 and making a conscious

00:41:50.060 decision about it

00:41:50.840 would go no

00:41:51.340 I don't want that person

00:41:52.360 speaking into my life

00:41:53.260 but yet we let them

00:41:53.960 do it anyway

00:41:54.480 well it's easy

00:41:55.380 I mean it's easy

00:41:56.040 to hang out

00:41:56.420 with your high school buddies

00:41:57.260 it's easy to hang out

00:41:58.140 with the people

00:41:58.580 that you sit by

00:41:59.400 at work

00:41:59.980 it's easy

00:42:00.740 it's default

00:42:01.480 it's just coasting

00:42:02.560 versus

00:42:02.940 I'm going to spend

00:42:03.960 just a little extra

00:42:04.620 time and energy

00:42:05.320 making sure

00:42:06.220 that these are

00:42:06.740 in fact the right

00:42:07.440 people that should

00:42:08.000 be in my life

00:42:08.660 exactly right

00:42:10.020 and again it goes

00:42:10.620 back to that idea

00:42:11.220 of intentionality

00:42:11.860 definitely

00:42:12.620 well so there's

00:42:13.580 another point

00:42:14.140 that I do want

00:42:14.700 to make sure

00:42:15.080 we address

00:42:15.760 and it's the idea

00:42:16.540 of multiplexity

00:42:17.560 and I think

00:42:18.120 what you're referring

00:42:18.800 to here is

00:42:20.120 seeing people

00:42:21.720 in different

00:42:22.520 contexts

00:42:23.320 as opposed to

00:42:24.440 hey I just know

00:42:25.200 these guys at work

00:42:26.240 versus yes

00:42:27.300 I know these guys

00:42:27.880 at work

00:42:28.240 but I also know

00:42:29.060 them because

00:42:29.600 we go hunting

00:42:30.240 together

00:42:30.660 and I think

00:42:31.540 there's power

00:42:32.060 in knowing

00:42:32.580 people from

00:42:33.340 different perspectives

00:42:34.780 and getting

00:42:35.500 different angles

00:42:36.220 on your current

00:42:37.220 networks

00:42:37.680 that's a brilliant

00:42:38.980 summary of the chapter

00:42:40.020 so cool

00:42:40.400 we're done

00:42:40.720 no I'm kidding

00:42:41.420 easy

00:42:41.980 all right let's

00:42:42.400 move on

00:42:42.720 we have a tendency

00:42:43.560 to put people

00:42:44.240 into buckets

00:42:44.820 exactly like you said

00:42:45.680 these are my

00:42:46.140 hunting buddies

00:42:46.680 these are the

00:42:47.420 work friends

00:42:48.040 these are the

00:42:48.820 people I see

00:42:49.300 at church

00:42:49.720 whatever

00:42:50.000 we categorize

00:42:50.820 people by

00:42:51.220 where we see

00:42:51.660 them most

00:42:51.980 frequently

00:42:52.400 but the truth

00:42:52.980 is that

00:42:53.380 the relationships

00:42:54.380 that develop

00:42:54.900 the fastest

00:42:55.540 and the relationships

00:42:56.580 that develop

00:42:57.100 the deepest

00:42:57.780 are usually

00:42:58.580 the ones

00:42:58.980 in which

00:42:59.240 you see

00:42:59.560 them in

00:42:59.880 more than

00:43:00.300 one context

00:43:01.040 right like

00:43:01.420 you said

00:43:01.640 so we work

00:43:02.100 but we also

00:43:02.580 hunt

00:43:02.900 or we work

00:43:03.720 but our kids

00:43:04.300 go to the

00:43:04.660 same daycare

00:43:05.240 so I see

00:43:05.760 them at 730

00:43:06.420 in the morning

00:43:06.800 and then again

00:43:07.400 at nine

00:43:07.800 right

00:43:08.080 those sort

00:43:09.100 of things

00:43:09.640 create deeper

00:43:10.380 and stronger

00:43:11.220 relationships

00:43:12.180 what I think

00:43:12.800 is so fascinating

00:43:13.400 about it

00:43:13.760 is again

00:43:14.120 our tendency

00:43:14.680 is to do

00:43:15.160 the opposite

00:43:15.700 and that tells

00:43:16.840 me that there's

00:43:17.380 a ton of

00:43:17.840 opportunity

00:43:18.420 if we start

00:43:19.260 pursuing multiplex

00:43:20.460 if we start

00:43:20.980 looking at

00:43:21.340 our regular

00:43:21.740 friends as

00:43:22.660 potential work

00:43:23.260 contacts

00:43:23.660 as our work

00:43:24.240 contacts

00:43:24.720 as potential

00:43:25.180 friends

00:43:25.580 I mean

00:43:26.040 everybody should

00:43:26.700 be a hunting

00:43:27.120 buddy

00:43:27.360 right

00:43:27.580 so the more

00:43:28.540 that we look

00:43:29.120 for more

00:43:29.620 context

00:43:30.140 to build

00:43:30.540 a relationship

00:43:30.980 with that

00:43:31.220 person

00:43:31.460 the faster

00:43:31.860 and deeper

00:43:32.240 we're going

00:43:32.540 to build

00:43:32.720 that relationship

00:43:33.200 but also

00:43:33.900 the more

00:43:34.580 value

00:43:35.140 you're going

00:43:35.820 to be able

00:43:36.060 to provide

00:43:36.380 to them

00:43:36.720 and they're

00:43:37.100 going to be

00:43:37.300 able to provide

00:43:37.680 for you

00:43:37.980 because there's

00:43:38.360 now more

00:43:38.820 context

00:43:39.380 more opportunities

00:43:40.140 to do it

00:43:40.740 I think

00:43:41.480 another point

00:43:42.160 to this

00:43:42.460 in addition

00:43:42.800 to what

00:43:43.080 you're saying

00:43:43.520 also is

00:43:44.540 these

00:43:45.540 weak ties

00:43:46.640 that you may

00:43:47.120 have

00:43:47.440 or you may

00:43:47.920 just know

00:43:48.380 somebody

00:43:48.760 in one

00:43:49.540 element

00:43:50.080 of their

00:43:50.500 life

00:43:50.820 if you

00:43:51.540 are trying

00:43:52.280 to develop

00:43:52.940 a further

00:43:53.500 relationship

00:43:54.080 with that

00:43:54.440 individual

00:43:54.900 then figure

00:43:55.900 out what

00:43:56.240 else they're

00:43:56.540 interested in

00:43:57.080 so a perfect

00:43:57.820 example of

00:43:58.420 that is

00:43:58.900 a gentleman

00:43:59.680 by the name

00:44:00.120 of Cameron

00:44:00.580 Haynes

00:44:00.880 and I know

00:44:01.120 a lot of

00:44:01.440 guys listening

00:44:02.020 know Cam

00:44:03.040 and follow

00:44:03.720 him

00:44:04.080 he's somebody

00:44:04.820 that I wanted

00:44:05.360 to get to

00:44:05.740 know a little

00:44:06.240 better

00:44:06.480 so I found

00:44:07.420 out he was

00:44:07.900 doing a

00:44:08.660 5k in

00:44:09.520 northern Utah

00:44:10.080 I purchased

00:44:11.180 the tickets

00:44:11.640 they're like

00:44:11.920 20-25 bucks

00:44:12.940 told my boys

00:44:13.560 to hop in

00:44:13.960 the truck

00:44:14.280 we drove

00:44:14.620 four hours

00:44:15.180 and ran

00:44:15.600 the 5k

00:44:16.240 and that

00:44:17.000 creates this

00:44:17.860 multiplexity

00:44:18.880 right now

00:44:19.280 I know I'm

00:44:19.720 here over

00:44:20.300 in social media

00:44:20.940 land but I

00:44:21.860 also know I'm

00:44:22.500 here from

00:44:23.040 running and I

00:44:23.520 also know I'm

00:44:24.080 here and that's

00:44:24.760 how you make

00:44:25.320 these connections

00:44:25.980 I think a little

00:44:26.480 bit more

00:44:26.760 efficiently

00:44:27.140 yeah exactly

00:44:28.560 and that's also

00:44:29.180 I mean that's

00:44:30.020 a how you make

00:44:30.760 the connections

00:44:31.200 more efficiently

00:44:31.740 that's how you

00:44:32.500 make it less

00:44:33.120 awkward if you

00:44:34.040 ever got into

00:44:34.480 the position

00:44:34.920 where you

00:44:35.220 needed to ask

00:44:35.740 a favor or

00:44:36.440 make it less

00:44:36.960 awkward for them

00:44:37.540 to ask a favor

00:44:38.140 from you

00:44:38.680 and then the

00:44:39.600 other thing is

00:44:40.220 it also broadens

00:44:41.580 out the first

00:44:42.460 or second degree

00:44:43.360 potential connections

00:44:44.300 you know him as

00:44:45.500 this one person

00:44:46.240 now you see him

00:44:46.860 in this running

00:44:47.300 context so now

00:44:48.300 you have someone

00:44:49.400 who can be

00:44:50.140 an introduction

00:44:50.960 for you in

00:44:51.560 multiple different

00:44:52.140 context again to

00:44:53.020 use that hidden

00:44:53.560 network idea now

00:44:54.880 your potential

00:44:55.780 network one or

00:44:56.660 two degrees of

00:44:57.120 separation out has

00:44:57.880 expanded because

00:44:58.580 there's a new

00:44:59.180 context in which

00:45:00.220 you and here

00:45:01.000 having conversations

00:45:01.980 which will naturally

00:45:03.180 flow to potential

00:45:03.960 introductions connections

00:45:04.860 etc sure well

00:45:06.760 David we're bumping

00:45:07.440 up against time I

00:45:08.140 could talk about

00:45:08.620 this stuff all day

00:45:09.300 because this is

00:45:09.760 fascinating I enjoy

00:45:10.800 it and it certainly

00:45:11.620 improved my life

00:45:12.940 and I hope it's

00:45:13.940 improved those

00:45:14.580 networks and

00:45:15.360 connections I have

00:45:16.020 as well but with

00:45:17.080 that said I do want

00:45:17.900 to ask you a couple

00:45:18.540 additional questions the

00:45:19.560 first question I

00:45:20.540 prepared you for what

00:45:22.000 does it mean to be a

00:45:22.740 man you know it's

00:45:23.980 funny I knew this was

00:45:24.700 coming because I've

00:45:25.220 been on the show

00:45:25.620 before yeah and I

00:45:27.140 don't remember what

00:45:28.100 my answer was then

00:45:28.960 but I think I know

00:45:29.980 what it is and it

00:45:30.720 hasn't changed which I

00:45:31.620 guess is a good thing

00:45:32.400 in the two years or so

00:45:33.320 since it's been

00:45:33.860 absolutely and that is

00:45:35.120 that I truly think if I

00:45:36.360 had to give like a

00:45:36.960 stage it's often like I

00:45:38.940 didn't feel like a man

00:45:40.360 etc not it wasn't when I

00:45:42.000 got when I turned 18 was

00:45:43.060 when I turned 21 was

00:45:43.900 when I got married it was

00:45:45.220 when I had a first kid and

00:45:46.320 the reason for that has

00:45:47.240 nothing to do with

00:45:47.820 having kids the reason

00:45:49.520 for that had to do with

00:45:50.260 responsibility I think

00:45:51.580 when you become a man

00:45:52.680 the day you realize

00:45:53.500 that you have a

00:45:54.420 responsibility to this

00:45:55.920 world that is deeper

00:45:57.340 than what the world

00:45:58.180 has a responsibility to

00:45:59.460 you to give right the

00:46:01.380 world doesn't actually

00:46:02.220 owe you anything but we

00:46:03.520 live in a far better

00:46:04.240 world if you adopt that

00:46:05.220 mentality that you owe

00:46:06.100 the world something and

00:46:06.900 I actually I mean I

00:46:08.280 really I wish I would

00:46:09.100 have realized that long

00:46:09.900 before I had kids but I

00:46:10.940 think for most of us

00:46:11.760 that's when it happens

00:46:12.660 that we suddenly realize

00:46:13.480 I'm responsible for

00:46:15.140 something really important

00:46:16.780 here the truth is I

00:46:17.940 always was I just didn't

00:46:19.180 realize it till then I

00:46:20.300 really like that so how

00:46:21.860 do we connect with you

00:46:22.580 learn more about what

00:46:23.320 you're doing of course

00:46:23.940 pick up a copy of the

00:46:24.700 book yeah so obviously I

00:46:26.980 would love if people pick

00:46:27.700 up a copy of the book I

00:46:28.620 have a really easy Google

00:46:29.700 name right David Berkus

00:46:31.000 B-U-R-K-U-S the book

00:46:32.660 you can find just about

00:46:33.680 anywhere it's friend of a

00:46:34.460 friend understanding the

00:46:35.520 hidden networks that can

00:46:36.500 transform your life and

00:46:37.320 career what I will ask you

00:46:38.380 to do is I didn't even

00:46:39.540 tell you about this if you

00:46:40.720 liked this podcast and like

00:46:41.860 you said we could do it

00:46:42.540 all day I actually have

00:46:43.580 sort of a podcast series

00:46:44.680 or an audio course for

00:46:46.140 anybody that's like oh

00:46:46.960 I'm on the fringes I

00:46:47.620 don't know if I want the

00:46:48.220 book or not so you go to

00:46:49.320 davidberkus.com slash order

00:46:51.300 like order of man

00:46:52.180 davidberkus.com slash order

00:46:53.740 everybody who's listening

00:46:54.800 can pick that up totally

00:46:55.780 free I hope then you'll

00:46:56.860 love it and it'll inspire

00:46:57.640 you to get the book but

00:46:58.300 even if it doesn't I know

00:46:59.340 there's two or three

00:46:59.860 insights in there that'll

00:47:00.640 help and I'm glad that I

00:47:01.780 was able to provide that

00:47:02.520 value so davidberkus.com

00:47:04.240 slash order cool we'll

00:47:05.500 connect that so the guys

00:47:06.360 can go check that out I

00:47:07.200 appreciate you being

00:47:07.900 willing to offer that

00:47:08.680 David I appreciate our

00:47:09.900 friendship man it's been

00:47:10.720 good to get to know you

00:47:11.480 over the past year year

00:47:12.420 and a half what I like

00:47:13.520 most about this is that

00:47:14.880 you didn't just come on

00:47:16.000 and talk about all these

00:47:17.400 wonderful things the way

00:47:18.460 that we've developed and

00:47:19.840 built a relationship is

00:47:21.560 exactly what you talk

00:47:23.040 about so it's a testament

00:47:24.060 to this stuff actually

00:47:25.160 works and I appreciate

00:47:26.660 that in you I appreciate

00:47:27.580 your friendship and of

00:47:28.420 course the opportunity to

00:47:29.380 get to know you a little

00:47:30.140 bit and spending some time

00:47:31.200 with me and our audience

00:47:31.960 today thanks man appreciate

00:47:32.880 it thank you for having

00:47:34.160 me like you said your life

00:47:35.080 and what you built is a

00:47:35.840 testament to it as well so

00:47:36.840 keep up the great work

00:47:37.680 gentlemen there you have

00:47:39.960 it my conversation with

00:47:41.060 David Berkus I hope that

00:47:42.860 you got so much value out

00:47:44.160 of this one I know that

00:47:45.060 as I listened in and had

00:47:46.200 this conversation that

00:47:47.220 there's some things in my

00:47:48.180 life that I can be doing

00:47:49.220 to improve my ability to

00:47:51.720 network and connect with

00:47:53.100 other people who I can

00:47:54.480 help and who can help me

00:47:56.220 and that's what this is

00:47:56.860 all about this is about

00:47:57.680 creating win-win situations

00:47:59.740 and I've had a lot of

00:48:00.560 success in doing that with

00:48:01.580 my financial planning

00:48:02.360 practice and then of

00:48:03.660 course with the growth of

00:48:04.920 the movement order of

00:48:05.980 man and I'm going to

00:48:07.140 continue to do that and

00:48:07.900 of course implement what

00:48:09.000 David has been able to

00:48:10.520 share with me here and in

00:48:11.940 other conversations that

00:48:13.040 him and I have had guys I

00:48:14.820 would encourage you to

00:48:15.540 reach out to me reach out

00:48:16.740 to David let us know what

00:48:17.640 you thought about the

00:48:18.220 show let us know how

00:48:19.420 you're using the

00:48:20.160 information if you use the

00:48:21.280 information in this show

00:48:22.160 or David's book friend of

00:48:23.220 a friend just shoot us a

00:48:24.740 message Facebook Instagram

00:48:26.020 Twitter let us know how

00:48:27.540 you use the conversation or

00:48:28.860 the book and how it

00:48:30.120 enhanced and improved your

00:48:31.700 life I'm sure David would

00:48:32.760 like to hear that and I

00:48:34.120 certainly would as well in

00:48:35.820 the meantime remember I

00:48:36.960 mentioned briefly we've

00:48:37.900 got our order of man

00:48:38.820 legacy event coming up

00:48:40.140 September 20th through the

00:48:41.460 23rd in 2018 I don't

00:48:44.740 have all the details but

00:48:45.720 stay tuned I will have

00:48:46.600 those shortly also go

00:48:47.980 check out my friends and

00:48:49.420 sponsor origin main.com

00:48:51.600 slash order of man for

00:48:52.960 training gear and

00:48:53.860 nutritional supplements the

00:48:55.000 Jocko line again that's

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00:48:58.700 order order in all caps at

00:49:01.040 checkout you'll get your

00:49:01.840 five percent off with that

00:49:03.180 said guys I will sign out

00:49:04.640 for the day I appreciate

00:49:05.800 you again as always being

00:49:07.460 on this expedition of

00:49:09.000 becoming a better man

00:49:10.420 learning what it means to

00:49:11.360 be a better father husband

00:49:12.560 community leader business

00:49:14.280 owner a better man in

00:49:15.580 general I'm inspired and

00:49:17.300 uplifted by you every

00:49:18.440 single day and we could

00:49:19.820 not be doing what we are

00:49:21.760 without you so until

00:49:23.620 Friday take action and

00:49:25.320 become the man you are

00:49:26.460 meant to be.

00:49:26.980 thank you for listening to

00:49:29.260 the order of man podcast

00:49:30.820 you're ready to take

00:49:31.860 charge of your life and be

00:49:33.280 more of the man you were

00:49:34.240 meant to be we invite you

00:49:35.760 to join the order at

00:49:36.940 order of man dot com

00:49:38.320 you

00:49:41.380 you

Order of Man - April 24, 2018

162： Tapping Into Your Hidden Networks ｜ David Burkus

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