163： The True Cost of Liberty ｜ Braxton McCoy
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 2 minutes
Words per Minute
203.92062
Summary
In this episode, I am joined by my friend and fellow soldier, Braxton McCoy, who served with me in Iraq in 2005 and 2006. We talk about the truths and fallacies of PTSD, overcoming demons of war, how a near-death experience changes your perspective, and the true cost of liberty.
Transcript
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Guys, if you listen to just one of my podcasts, please make it be this one. Today, I am joined
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by my friend and fellow soldier Braxton McCoy. He and I served in Iraq together in 2005, 2006.
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One day we were playing softball together and the next day I hear he's been hit by a suicide bomber
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with multiple fractures and life-threatening injuries to himself and others. I didn't actually
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fully realize the extent of his injuries until this interview. Guys, this one is raw, it's
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truthful, and it's extremely insightful when it comes to one soldier's perspective of war,
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responsibility, obligation, and liberty. We talk about the truths and fallacies of PTSD,
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overcoming the demons of war, how a near-death experience changes your perspective and the
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true cost of liberty. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears,
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and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.
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You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who
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you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,
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you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler,
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and I am the host and the founder of this movement, The Order of Man. I am glad that you're tuning in,
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whether you are here for the very first time or you've been here for just over three years now.
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I couldn't be more grateful that you're here, that you're tuning in, that you're sharing the episodes,
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that you're sharing your insights and your stories and the things that you're struggling with and the
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things that you're overcoming. When I set out to do this three years ago, it was really my goal to
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create an organization, a brotherhood, a fraternity, whatever you want to call it,
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that would be able to grow together because we're going through common struggles. We found ways to
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succeed that other men haven't, and we're sharing those stories in a meaningful way.
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And if you want to be part of this, there's a couple of different ways you can do that.
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Number one is this. You're listening to the podcast right now. That's the first thing.
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Number two, you can join our Facebook group. We've got about 45,000 men in that group now,
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and we are having some serious and some incredible conversations about the topic of masculinity in
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general and then how that all breaks down anywhere from leadership to self-development to mindset to
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physical fitness to being a better father, a better husband. I mean, you name it. If it's a
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conversation that's important to you, we are having that conversation over there. And then we've also
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got an exclusive brotherhood. Now this is 380 men who have voluntarily raised their hand and said,
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I want to be a better man. And I want some guidance and some structure and some discipline
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and accountability in doing that. That's called the iron council. I'll mention that during the
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show sometime. So I won't talk too much about that for right now. Now, guys, outside of that,
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I just want to introduce our show sponsors, but they're more than show sponsors. These are my
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friends. It's Pete Roberts over at origin, Maine. And I know a lot of you guys have checked them
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out. Pete's given me some feedback and told me how many people have been over to origin,
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I just like who these guys are. I like what they do. I like what they're about. And they're
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without compromise. And I'm glad to call them sponsors, but more importantly than that,
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I'm glad to call them friends. So guys go check it out. Origin, Maine.com slash order of man.
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And then when you get there, make sure you use order O R D E R and all caps at checkout,
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and you'll get 5% off on your order again, origin, Maine.com slash order of man,
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and then use order as the code at checkout. Now, as I mentioned before, I have my friend
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and fellow soldier Braxton McCoy on the show today. We have lost touch over the past 10 years or so
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since we served together in Iraq. But when I found out that he had written a book about our experience
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and more specifically his experience in Iraq, I knew that this would make for a very, very powerful
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conversation. After more than a decade of physical therapy and more surgeries than I care to think
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about, Braxton has regained most of his strength and rebounded emotionally from an extremely traumatic
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situation. You're going to hear about that, of course, in the conversation today. He's twice served
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as national advocate for the army wounded warrior program and twice as veterans advocate for the
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coalition of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans in the district of Columbia. His four years as an advocate
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were focused on getting veterans back to work as a meaningful way to outflank post-traumatic stress
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disorder, which we get into a little bit in the conversation today as well. In 2013, he started
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warrior employment project, which is a nonprofit designed to connect veteran families in need with
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CEOs eventually leading to the veterans employment. So guys don't necessarily need to take notes on this
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one, but I would encourage you to tune in, listen in, really consider and contemplate what my friend has to
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offer and what he has to share today. Very powerful, very insightful. And I think you'll walk away with
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a very new perspective on life in general. Braxton, what's going on, man? Thanks for joining me on the
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show today. Thank you. I'm glad to be here. Yeah, I know. Gosh, it's been a long time since we've
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talked. I mean, it's probably been what, 10 years or so since we even had a conversation, which I can't
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believe it's been that long. Yeah, I think it's probably been 12 maybe. Well, that's how long it's
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been since we got back from Iraq. So maybe, maybe that really was the last time we're able to converse
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and have, have at least a conversation. I remember the last time we hung out was playing softball
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together in Iraq. That's what I was thinking too. It had to have been on rocket field. I mean, I,
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unless maybe we talked at a homecoming or something could have happened, but there's so many people.
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It's hard to say. Yeah. Cause I remember coming off that plane in Cedar city and you were the first
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person to greet us as we came off the plane, which I thought was a pretty cool gesture. Just the fact
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that you were there. And I think at the time you were, you were still on crutches, I think at the
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time when you met us. Yeah. Thanks. Um, it was, I was on canes, but that was one of my goals was to
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be able to meet my friends upright, you know, my brothers. And, uh, especially since everyone was
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saying that I wasn't going to be able to walk, I, you know, as a young NCO, the last thing you want is for
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your friends to think that you've been crippled for life. I guess I just didn't want to appear
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to have lost that battle. Yeah. Well, I don't think anybody would have thought that anyways,
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but it's a testament to you and your strength. And of course your story and your experiences and
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the things that you shared in, in your new book, which you sent me a copy of man. And you know what?
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I gotta be honest. Like, I mean, I was there, right? I wasn't there for that particular event
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that we'll talk about today, but I was there in Iraq with you. And there was a lot that I just
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didn't even fully know or appreciate about what you went through.
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Thanks. You know, what's funny is a, a lot of our guys kind of said the same thing. I think
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there was a pretty serious communication gap between Walter Reed and our unit.
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Let's do this. Let's start from the beginning because I think your story is one that really
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needs to be heard because I think speaking of disconnects, I think there's a huge disconnect
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between the public perception of freedom and liberty and the actual sacrifices that go into
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this. And fortunately you didn't lose your life obviously, but I think there's a lot of sacrifice
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on your part for defending our freedoms and liberty. So walk me through, if you would,
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the events, maybe the overview of the events that transpired in Iraq and near the glass factory
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on this recruiting mission. Yeah. My team was assigned to secure a small glass factory that
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was being used to recruit Iraqis to become police officers in the area. When we got there, there was
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a bunch of people already there and there were just all kinds of signs that things were looking like
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they were not going to go well for us that day. It was an atypical type of a day. So we radioed up and
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said, Hey, something's not right here. And, uh, you know, just kind of letting everybody know.
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And then we went out and, uh, into the crowd and there was a bunch of people there and about a
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thousand Iraqis and a semi truck crashed through one of our perimeters and a small, uh, one way
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gunfight in, uh, ensued. And then Iraqis kind of scattered all over the place. And then during the
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process of getting them back into lines and, uh, getting a handle on the whole thing, a suicide
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bomber detonated his vest and that killed, uh, our Marine dog handler and, uh, Colonel Mack. And, um,
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it wounded, I think three or four other guys. And I was one of the guys that got wounded. My injuries
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were bilateral femur fractures, multiple bilateral. I think my left one was broken three times and my
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right one too. And, uh, my back was broken and both of the bones in my right radius and owner were
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broken. My left humerus was broken. All the bones in my right hand were shattered and had a brain
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injury and some broken ribs. And my median nerve was transected at my wrist. And what does that mean?
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Transected at my wrist? Uh, it means this is no, uh, medical expert here, but my understanding was
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that it means that it was nicked. And so it doesn't, because it's an electric impulse in there,
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it doesn't have good current, uh, or it doesn't, excuse me, doesn't conduct well anymore. So now I have
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only a partial feeling there. And there was some question as to whether I, cause at the time I had
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no feeling at all. And there was some question as to whether I would have any feeling in my hand,
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but I, I do now. So, which is kind of a, it's kind of a paradoxical thing. Cause it's like,
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oh great. I have feeling now, but now it just hurts like hell half of the time. So yeah, yeah,
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I bet. I mean, is it still hurting you today? Even 12 years later? Oh, yes. Oh, sometimes it feels
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like it's on fire. It's crazy. But other times it feels kind of normal, which is cool. But
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the times where it feels like it's burning, I kind of wish I couldn't feel it if I'm being honest.
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I mean, I don't even want to compare it to this, but I remember I was closing the door on my truck
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and I hit my elbow on the truck and it shot nerve pain through my fingers and it lasted for months.
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I'm not comparing the two. I'm just saying like, I know how long lasting that can be. And I can't
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imagine maybe even knowing that this is just, this is, this is life now, right?
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Yeah, that is life. I mean, that's the key point where you just hit on right there is
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this is a thing that Peterson says all the time, but he didn't get it. He didn't make
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it up. It comes from the Buddhists and the Bible and everywhere else. I mean, it's life
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is suffering. That's what it is. My suffering is really no more or less maybe than the next
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guy's. It's just different. I mean, it might be a little more in some cases, you know, I
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don't want to say that everyone suffers equally. That's maybe a stretch, but we all suffer.
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That's the universal story. Right. And that's like accepting that is the most important thing
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we can do. And the catch 22 or paradox of that is that by accepting it, you defeat it. And that's
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the only way to defeat it. So it's, it's kind of a weird thing.
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Yeah. That's what I was going to ask is what separates those that have traumatic experiences
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like we all do. And of course, an experience that's significant like yours is from somebody
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who takes that experience and uses it as an opportunity to self-destruct and implode in
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a way. And you think it's just a matter of accepting the reality for what it is and driving
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I do. And I, I would say that I can, I can say that unequivocally because I was at one
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point, the guy who was using it as an excuse to self-destruct. So I've kind of been on both
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sides of that. I went from being sort of hailed a hero, not just kind of, I mean, that's
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what people were calling me. I don't think of myself that way, but that's people, you
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know, were hailing me this hero and that all felt good. And then I started to have a few
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problems and then I just sort of gave up in some sense. And, um, I was drinking and abusing
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pills and doing all kinds of negative stuff. So I have been the guy that's destroyed his
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life because he couldn't accept the psychological impacts of tragedy. I was fine with the pain
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and the torment and stuff that that wasn't a big deal. It was dealing with the psychological
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after effects. So I, I guess I would say I've lived both of those lives and that's why I
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feel I can say that. So unequivocally, why don't you think you're a hero, man? I think
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that's a pretty good question, I guess, or a pretty fair question. Here's what I'll say.
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Given that Sergeant can died there and in the way that he died was he's the, he was the, uh,
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the dog handler, the Marine dog handler. He was. I would say if that guy's a hero,
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then I'm not whatever he's labeled. And I would say that that's mine.
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So is it a, is it a thing of respect? Is that where you're coming from?
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I think so. Yeah. I think when I hear Ray Benavidez story or, you know, um, a guy like
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this or, or Sergeant Meyer, or, you know, I hear these kinds of stories. I think those
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are heroes and I'm just like a guy who was there, you know, doing his job. So.
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Interesting. Yeah. It's a really interesting perspective. And I've talked with a lot of
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guys. Um, one conversation I had recently was with Dakota Meyer, who you're probably
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familiar with a medal of honor recipient. He says the same thing. He's like, I'm, I'm
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not a hero, man. I was just doing what I needed to do. And it's really interesting
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from, from my perspective, from where I sit and from where I think most people sit,
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they would say that, that you are, but I guess you have ultimate say in that, right?
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Yeah, I guess so. I, what's funny cause you bring it up, uh, Dakota Myers. I, I
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definitely think that guy's a hero. So it's, it's kind of a, I don't know.
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Yeah. Interesting. Well, let's go back to the, these events. Cause you talked about a
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truck crashing through the barriers. Was that a coordinated distraction strategy or was that
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I've never got an answer on that. And through experience, you know, as well as I do that
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sometimes people get scared and do stupid things and that could have been what happened right there.
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But it's hard not to think that it probably was coordinated, especially since we were on the
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fourth day of a mission that was supposed to be three days. So there's plenty of time for
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pre-planning and all of that. Um, but I've, I've never, I've never heard. So why did the mission go
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longer? You mean, you said it went an extra day. Why it did? Yeah. Uh, day three, we had so many
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people lined up trying to get through that. We weren't able to get to them all. And so the command,
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the talk said we needed to run an extra day. And, and that was to, from my understanding as you know,
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just to lay boots on the ground guy, my understanding was that they were doing that
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because they wanted to keep their word to the Iraqi people. Um, they didn't want, we were
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trying to win. We were hearts and minds campaign as you remember. And so we felt like since we said
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we would process everyone, we needed to make sure that we processed everyone.
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What's your perception about our, our role over there and specifically with our tour? Uh, you know,
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I know there's a lot of people that have hard feelings or wonder what the objective is,
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but for you being boots on ground and being face to face with the Iraqi civilians, what is your
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perception? Good, bad, and different? I would say that we, we did some good things and some not so
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wise things. What that conflict was to every man, the answer to that lies in his own heart.
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I think that some people maybe didn't do the right things all the time, but most of us,
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I feel were there doing their best. I don't think I knew I didn't see a lot of evil and that kind of
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stuff. Like what I've, if you were to, you know, I don't want to be political, but if you were to hear
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one side's story here in America of what went on in that war, I would say that I did not see much,
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if any of that sort of negative negativity and evil conduct by us service members. So I can say
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unequivocally that that kind of stuff did not happen often. Abu Ghraib, that kind of stuff was a very,
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isolated incident, but there were little individual things going on all of the time and
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little small skirmishes and gunfights all the time where we, we may or may not have always done
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what was right. And the only person that can answer those questions or the only person that can answer
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that is the person who was there at the moment. And so it, as a whole, I would say based on the time
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I spent living with a few Iraqi police officers, I think we did our best to do a good thing. And we did
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bring some liberty to a nation that had none, even if that liberty didn't come with security and peace
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and some of the other things that we think of typically with liberty in the West, we did bring
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liberty and that is worth something if you're willing to fight for it. Well, I think it's really easy to
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look at it from the outside perspective and think that liberty comes easy because you're not the one
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in the literal battle fighting for it. Right. Exactly. I we've in the West, I feel we've we've
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been blessed with both liberty and security for so long that we've allowed those things to become
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synonymous and they're just not. Interesting. You said that this day was atypical. Was that just
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because the size of the populace that showed up or were there some other signs that you can pinpoint
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or was it just a feeling like, like walk me through this? Why was it different than any other
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day? The first thing is they were on time and that just never happens. So we knew for sure that
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something wasn't right when the Iraqi people were there on time. Why would they show up on time?
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Like, let's just assume for a second that they knew something was going to happen today.
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Why would they, number one, why would they show up on time? And number two, why would they show up at
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all? I think that the way a lot of that stuff worked is whoever was doing the coordinating,
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generally a cleric of some kind would know because he lives in that culture that those people are late
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all the time. So we probably would say you're supposed to be there an hour before, or maybe
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even two hours before the actual scheduled time. And that would get everybody there. Um, and that would
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allow, you know, uh, make it so that he wouldn't have to tell them exactly everything that was going on.
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And it would be a coordinated attack between just the actors and then the sort of puppet master,
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if that makes sense. So would a cleric like that put his people in that environment as a sacrifice
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for what he would deem the greater good, I guess. I don't think that's the right word,
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but I think that's probably his perspective. I think that's actually the right choice of words
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that you used. That's exactly what he would think. And let's just say it wouldn't always be a
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cleric, you know, just a bad guy. Let's label them, which were sometimes clerics.
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What he would see as the greater good is destroying infidels and sacrificing his people is no big deal
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because people who die and for the word of God, like I'm trying to tiptoe around this a little bit,
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but people who die for the faith die as a martyr and they go straight to heaven. So it's not necessarily
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a sacrifice to him because those people are going straight to live, you know, with God.
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Right. He thinks he's getting something better than what is currently going on.
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Oh yeah. Better by worlds and worlds. So, so yeah, I mean, I guess sacrifice isn't even the
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right word. It's just a, it's a very strange, it's a worldview that I can't quite understand. Let's say.
00:19:08.640
Well, I think there's a different perspective that you and I have. I mean, I, for example,
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I've got a family to take care of. That's just one element of this is I've got a family to take
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care of. So if I leave this world intentionally or unintentionally, then I, by default,
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I'll leave my family, my wife and my kids hanging and I'm not okay with that.
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That's right. That's absolutely right. And sometimes the actual actor of, as far as
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martyrs go, like the suicide bomber in this case, will be promised that his family will be taken
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care of. So that's maybe part, part of the thing, but the rest of the people who die there,
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they are definitely just sacrificial bodies, but.
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Interesting. Interesting. So walk me through this now. You, it's a little bit atypical,
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you know, something's strange, something's off. And I think if I remember correctly,
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the dog identifies this individual prior to him blowing himself up. Is that right?
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That is right. Yeah. Bruno grabbed the dog's name was Bruno. He smelled the explosive and grabbed a
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hold of the guy by the arm and started dragging to the ground. And then he detonated on the way down
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and going toward the ground made it so that less people died because explosions take the path of
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least resistance. So instead of just being able to go out in a sort of spherical shape,
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right. Three, 60 standing, right. It was then more out and up and the wounds on my body would
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definitely reflect that because I have the intensity of holes increases the higher up you go. Like I
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only have one that broke my left tibia, one ball bearing that hit me. And then from my knees to my
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hips, I had something like 30. So it was like, gosh, really obvious that it was pouring on as it went
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upwards. So that is crazy. Yeah. I can't, I can't even imagine that, man. It's so unreal,
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like surreal to me. And, and I, obviously for you, it's completely, completely different. So
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it knocked you out. Right. And you woke up like, did you think you were like, what happened? Did
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you think you were dead or, or like what's going through your mind? If anything, at this point,
00:21:07.260
I definitely thought that I was dying. I knew I wasn't dead because it hurt way too much.
00:21:12.520
Yeah. I thought there's just no way in hell that, that, that I could be dead right now because this
00:21:17.640
is pretty painful, but I definitely thought that I was dying and I was laying on my stomach when I
00:21:23.540
came to, and there was a bunch of body parts underneath me and, uh, intestines and stuff like
00:21:30.040
that. And I was kind of fiddling with them with my left hand. You know, when you get knocked out and
00:21:34.980
you're, you're just hazy and your brain's not working. And I was looking at these organs and then I
00:21:40.360
finally thought, Holy crap. That's, um, those are my guts is what I thought. I thought I'd been
00:21:45.100
You thought they were yours. I did. Yeah. I kind of fiddled with them for a minute and got myself
00:21:50.680
propped up on my elbow a little bit. And then my, my buddy, Johnny got there and started to pull
00:21:56.360
bodies off of me. There were dead bodies on top of me. And I didn't, I didn't know this at the time,
00:22:00.520
but he started pulling them off of me. And then with the last one went the sort of gore.
00:22:05.940
And then I could see my hips for the first time. I knew that I wasn't blown in half,
00:22:11.100
but then when they rolled me over to start trying to patch wounds, my legs were so broken
00:22:16.720
up that they were just like, I just, I think I've always described it as like a sack full
00:22:22.160
of wrenches. I mean, my, my femurs had shrunk to about 12 inches in total length, all the
00:22:28.820
bones compressed. And as they broke, the muscles made the bones come together and also
00:22:34.300
did everything up. Okay. Yeah. So it was all just bleeding inside there and I could feel
00:22:39.940
the bones grinding against each other. And it was, it was pretty nasty. So, um, that was
00:22:47.440
the next moment where I thought, you know, when I was able to look at my legs, I thought,
00:22:52.500
Oh, there's just no way that you can be that broken and live. You know, I was pretty convinced
00:22:59.520
that there was just absolutely no way I was going to make it through that.
00:23:02.120
So what are you telling yourself at this point? You're at, you're at this point. It sounds
00:23:06.220
like you think you're pretty much going to die. What, what type of agreements or things
00:23:12.320
are running through your head? Are you talking with God right now? Are you talking to yourself?
00:23:17.160
Are you like, what are you, what are you doing? Like you think you're going to die. So what's
00:23:20.380
going through your mind right now? I wasn't afraid of dying, but I wasn't sure what it meant
00:23:26.980
to die. Let's say I grew up, um, a Christian guy and all of this, but during the war, I
00:23:33.660
was, my faith became a sort of an internal conflict and I wasn't sure what I believed
00:23:38.420
about anything anymore. Um, and so I was asking myself some of the life's biggest questions.
00:23:44.200
Actually, I didn't know what it was going to be like to die, or I was really kind of stuck
00:23:49.780
in a deep, deep sort of thought there. And then I started to think that I just wanted
00:23:54.520
someone to tell my mom, um, that I loved her and I wanted her to be comforted in some way.
00:24:02.180
And I knew how big of a chore that was going to be. So I told Johnny that he needed to tell,
00:24:08.280
I was married at the time and he needed to tell my wife and my mother that I loved them
00:24:13.100
and all of this stuff. And, and I, and I'm not saying this to be, you know, like some kind
00:24:17.580
of, um, calloused ex-husband or anything, but it definitely, the wife part was definitely
00:24:24.220
more just because you're supposed to, I was really concerned about my mom, particularly since
00:24:29.980
I volunteered for the deployment and, you know, I grew up riding bulls and racing dirt bikes
00:24:35.700
and doing all the, putting her through all of this torment and everything, you know, fear
00:24:39.480
and injuries and broken bones and all this kind of stuff. And then I was going to die at 19
00:24:44.220
and I just felt like she didn't deserve that, you know? And so I was hoping someone could
00:24:49.760
help her. And that's why I was telling Johnny and he kept telling me it was like a scene from
00:24:54.640
a movie and it, it sounds cliche, but it was really happening. And he was saying, you're
00:24:58.460
going to tell him yourself, don't worry about it. You're going to tell him yourself. And
00:25:00.880
I thought he was wrong. You know, I really did. And then I just kept kind of passing in
00:25:06.820
and out of consciousness. I'm not sure whether it was due to a blood loss or, or just shock,
00:25:13.440
but probably some mixture of the two. And then when I came back in a few different times and
00:25:20.100
I started to realize that nothing was happening when I was out, it was just like the, the lights
00:25:24.920
were turned off. And then I started to wonder if that's just what it was to die. It was just like
00:25:31.260
nothing. When did you feel like, and I don't know if this is days or weeks or months, like when did
00:25:37.820
you feel like you were in the clear for what that word, you know, that you were going to live?
00:25:42.500
Obviously you have a lot of other things that we need to talk about that you need to work through
00:25:45.380
and you're still working through, I'm sure, but that you knew you were going to live.
00:25:48.040
Yeah. After I made it through a couple of surgeries and got all the way back to Walter Reed.
00:25:54.540
So let's say a couple of weeks into ICU, I started to think that there was a pretty good chance that
00:26:00.240
I was going to make it. And then I had a overdose and I about died from that. And then I got a
00:26:08.140
gangrene and another blood infection. And then I ended up having a blood clot travel from my legs
00:26:14.480
to my lungs and collapsed my lung. And that almost killed me. So it was like three or four
00:26:19.700
incidents in Walter Reed. And then it started to feel like I was just never, ever going to be out
00:26:24.400
of the woods. So it was kind of weird. And to be honest, I haven't said this to anybody, but they
00:26:29.800
put this IVC filter in when I had that blood clot travel to my lungs. And this, I didn't write about
00:26:35.600
in the book because I didn't, I hadn't processed it yet, but I've been meeting with doctors because it
00:26:41.000
turns out that that's potentially going to have some very detrimental effects for my longevity.
00:26:46.840
So it's like, even the things that saved me in the short term might, might have problems here later
00:26:51.880
on. What is that IVC filter? What is that? It was like, almost like a stent, except for instead of
00:26:58.420
to open up, instead of being used to open up the, the vein, it goes in your interior vena cava,
00:27:05.480
which is the biggest vein in your body from what I understand. And it's shaped almost like an
00:27:10.960
umbrella without, uh, without the cloth, just like the skeleton. Yeah. Yeah. And it goes in
00:27:19.100
there and then opens up and then it is designed to break up clots as they travel from the legs
00:27:23.980
up to the lungs. Oh, because that wiring or that, whatever filters the clot through.
00:27:29.320
Correct. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. Apparently they were supposed to be taking these things out,
00:27:33.620
but they weren't taking them out. And mine was one that didn't get taken out. So it's been taken
00:27:38.640
out since though. No, it hasn't. Oh, really? It's still in there. Yeah. And so we're trying to find
00:27:44.360
out and now they're telling me it's scarred in. And so, and now they're starting to see lots of
00:27:49.200
problems with them. So I guess I've, I'm not out of the woods, you know? Uh, so maybe that's what
00:27:55.400
makes that question so difficult to answer, but. This is a really interesting perspective and I'm trying
00:28:00.780
to be sensitive of what you're going through, but I'm genuinely curious that like, how does life
00:28:05.300
change for you? Knowing that, man, I've got these, I've got these medical conditions that
00:28:10.060
have the potential to, to kill me. And what, how do you live life now?
00:28:15.560
Well, if it's latest one, I got to back up and tell you a quick story. January 5th was our 12 year
00:28:21.600
anniversary day of what the alive day is some people call them. And I started to have some chest pain
00:28:27.980
and, uh, you know, I've been trained for assaults marathons. I'm doing a lot of running and stuff.
00:28:32.360
And I didn't think too much of it, but then it hurt enough that I, I figured I better say
00:28:37.400
something. So I told my wife and she called her mom who was a, uh, EMT for a long time. And she was
00:28:43.380
like, you just need to go to the hospital. Cause you know, it's not good. So I go in there. Mostly
00:28:47.640
my fear at that point is this filter is what I'm thinking that something's gone wrong with this IBC
00:28:52.300
filter. And I go in there and they do a bunch of tests and they say, well, the good news is you
00:28:58.160
didn't have a heart attack today, but it does look like you've got some damage to your heart and that
00:29:03.800
could have happened any point in the past. And you may even had a heart attack before. So I have all
00:29:09.200
of these little things and I came home, uh, little things that are maybe not that little, but I came
00:29:14.940
home from that and I had, I have a brand new son, you know, he's eight months old and a 10 year old
00:29:20.660
daughter. At first I wanted to just kind of almost, I don't know, man, I almost wanted to just cry and
00:29:27.620
beg God to just help, you know, give me a break. Feel like I've dealt with enough stuff. And then I
00:29:33.400
had this overwhelming compulsion to just say thank you because I could have died 12 years ago and never
00:29:42.300
had the opportunity to lay by my son and watch him breathe at night or marry a girl who's changed my
00:29:50.640
life in ways that I could just never even express. And I could have missed out on all of these things.
00:29:57.840
So to piss and moan about the health problems that I have now would be almost like flying in the face
00:30:05.260
of the, the sort of blessings that I've already received. It's a complaint now would be to take
00:30:10.380
those things for granted. And there's no, there's no way around that. So every night I say what I would
00:30:17.360
consider my version of a prayer and I just say, thank you. I don't ever ask for anything. I just
00:30:23.020
hug my son and say, thank you. Cause I've been blessed with more than I could have ever dreamed
00:30:29.120
of when I was laying there dying. If there's one thing I know, it's that having other men to lean on
00:30:36.560
and rely on and lift up is an extremely powerful way to speed up the results that you're after. And
00:30:43.860
you are after results. You wouldn't be listening to this show if that wasn't the case. Yes, you can
00:30:49.000
go at life alone and you might just make it. But the question is at what cost could you achieved the
00:30:55.680
health that you're after relationship success, financial security quickly and more efficiently
00:31:01.980
with the help of other men who know the way. And the answer in case you don't already know is yes,
00:31:08.540
but most men in my experience are not willing to invest in themselves, even to the slightest
00:31:14.560
degree. You know, they'll listen to the podcast. They'll read a few books here and there, and then
00:31:19.580
they'll do absolutely nothing with the information that they've learned. And they'll continue to go at
00:31:24.980
life the way they've always done it. If that isn't you, if you are somebody who is willing to invest
00:31:31.200
some time, some energy, some money, some resources into growing and developing your life into what
00:31:37.800
it's meant to be, then I would encourage you to band with me and 380 other men inside of our
00:31:43.540
brotherhood, the iron council. You're going to gain the framework, the guidance, the direction,
00:31:48.680
accountability from other high achieving men like yourself across all facets of life. So you can learn
00:31:54.660
more about what we're up to at order of man.com slash iron council. Again, order of man.com slash iron
00:32:01.300
council. In the meantime, guys, let's head back to the conversation with Braxton.
00:32:05.300
I want to go back to something that you said earlier, which is that you volunteered when we
00:32:11.860
deployed. You weren't part of the triple deuce. You weren't part of our unit. So why, why did you
00:32:16.820
volunteer? Why, why did you feel compelled to go with us? It was the same reason why I enlisted in
00:32:22.020
the first place. In all honesty, I just wanted to go punch back. You know, I was, uh, in high school
00:32:29.000
when the towers came down. And so I just felt like it was, you know, if people were going to bring war
00:32:35.660
to my country, then I'm going to go take swings. And that's all I wanted to do. And word came through
00:32:42.380
the grapevine that that deployment was going to be a really hot one. And I figured hot meant most
00:32:48.600
opportunity to punch the enemy in the mouth. So that's why I said, that's what I want to be on.
00:32:54.500
Did you feel like you accomplished what you wanted to now that I've, that's a question I've
00:32:59.540
never gotten. Uh, man, I don't know. I don't know, man, this is, this is great. I mean,
00:33:05.500
this is absolutely great. You know, I've had conversations with guys that have gone through,
00:33:09.500
I think similar experiences, but just like knowing you and having this connection and, uh, just being
00:33:14.700
friends. Like, I mean, I vividly remember the last time that I saw you was we were playing softball,
00:33:20.800
man. We were on the same team. And I think two days later I get this news and I'm trying to
00:33:24.340
think about this. Like, I don't know if I try to like forget it a little bit in a way,
00:33:29.160
or just like not think about it because there was events that happened that, I mean, you just drive
00:33:33.860
on, right. Cause you've got a mission to do and a mission to accomplish. And I'm thinking about it
00:33:37.660
now. I'm like, why, like, why doesn't that affect you more in the moment? I guess my perspective is
00:33:42.740
like, don't think about it. You've got a mission. You got to keep going. I don't know. Do you have a
00:33:46.460
perspective on that? That's right. I think the way you did it was the right way to do it in the
00:33:50.660
moment. You can't, it's just like people, when they complain about the army, not taking care of
00:33:56.760
them after they get wounded, that's a misguided view of the whole thing. Uh, the army's job is
00:34:02.220
not to take care of you after you got wounded. The army's job is to be combat effective. Um,
00:34:07.200
and your job as a soldier within that army or Marine Corps or wherever is to remain combat effective.
00:34:13.180
And if, if modeling something up for another few months is the best way to stay alive, then that's
00:34:18.700
the right thing to do. So I think it's perfectly natural what you did. And when you're home,
00:34:24.700
then you can deal with that kind of stuff, you know, those thoughts and everything. It's just
00:34:28.440
not going to do you any favors, uh, help you in any way to sit over there and think about, man,
00:34:33.140
that guy had played softball with my buddy there. He's all kinds of messed up, you know,
00:34:37.020
it's just, it's not going to help you. So. Yeah. I mean, it's just an interesting perspective
00:34:41.100
because I think generally society says to be vulnerable and show your, your emotions. And,
00:34:47.880
and while I, I agree, I mean, I think there's a time and a place for that. I think as men,
00:34:51.820
there's certainly a time and a place where the right response is to not show those vulnerabilities.
00:34:58.240
And I don't think society would say that, but I think there's a lot of cases and this being one
00:35:02.420
of them where the masculine, the manly thing to do is to bottle that up and drive on and complete
00:35:07.960
the mission that has to be completed. That's right. There's no doubt of that. And we've known that
00:35:13.240
for centuries and centuries and centuries. I mean, it's in, it's in every story of war that's ever
00:35:19.240
been written from Odysseus, you know, down to even modern books like Shane and these kinds of things.
00:35:25.180
I mean, it's just only in the last, my lifetime, 20 years that we've decided that you should just
00:35:31.180
always cry. You know, that's crazy. It's stupid. It's, it, it's just like pretending that we didn't
00:35:37.920
learn anything and, you know, the past, however many thousand years, depending on your worldview.
00:35:43.620
Well, let's fast forward a little bit here. So one of the things that you said is that
00:35:47.620
there was a time that you couldn't deal with the after effects of this psychologically,
00:35:52.880
mentally, emotionally, but obviously that's changed to some degree. So what during the process
00:35:58.800
of physical, mental, emotional recovery changed for you? Was it a switch? Was it a gradual process?
00:36:04.520
What did this actually look like for you? I talked a lot about this in my book, because I think that
00:36:10.060
it's one of the characteristics of ascension or coming back from Hades or hell or whatever is
00:36:17.840
that it's steps, you know, we always describe a slippery slope into hell. So we can always sort
00:36:23.500
of point to the, the action that was stepping on the slope. And then it was just like a quick fall,
00:36:28.340
but coming out is like a ladder and we, you know, there's 400 rungs on the ladder or something.
00:36:33.780
It's very difficult to remember each individual little thing that happened that was positive.
00:36:39.120
Positivity is just very hard to remember it for whatever reason. I think it's a wiring problem
00:36:44.520
with humanity. But, um, for me, one of the ones I pointed to in the book was I was working for a
00:36:50.380
company based out of Denver and I was in Colorado Springs at this event and I was there speaking.
00:36:57.160
And then my boss was speaking and I want the company to remain anonymous. I don't want to be in
00:37:01.700
trouble there. So at the end of the event, a guy came up and said, is it true that you have
00:37:08.220
a hundred percent success rate with your company? I said, well, I'm not going to speak for the
00:37:12.540
president, but I can tell you that I do not have a hundred percent success rate. And this is what
00:37:17.200
the president of the company had been saying. And the guy that was asking me had a medal of honor
00:37:21.120
around his neck. And I just said, there's absolutely no way that I'm going to lie to a guy
00:37:27.620
with a medal of honor. I'm just, just not going to happen. Not even to keep my job. It's just not
00:37:33.100
going to happen. So that was one of the easiest points in my life that I can look back on and say
00:37:39.020
that turned a lot of things around. It was just absolute flat refusal to tell a lie, even for
00:37:44.760
self-preservation. And so that changed a lot of your perspective moving forward in with being an
00:37:49.840
integrity with yourself. It did. And that's exactly integrity. That's exactly why, because
00:37:54.560
as soon as I realized that integrity meant that much to me, then I started to examine what integrity
00:37:59.560
really means. And I realized that it meant a whole hell of a lot more than just not lying in the moment.
00:38:05.840
It also means living the way that you say you're living. So every time I get on a stage and I'm saying,
00:38:11.560
these are the things that I've done that have helped me out, if I'm not still doing them, then I'm lying
00:38:17.300
to the people in the audience. And so that was another example or another thing that I had to put on
00:38:24.240
there. And then one thing I've seen you mention that we're in total agreement on is you have to do what
00:38:30.100
you say you're going to do. That's a facet of integrity. And so it sort of snowballed into if I say
00:38:36.160
I'm going to do something, then I have to do it. And all of those little, it was like through the
00:38:40.940
examining of the word integrity and deciding that integrity was this big, this very big part of
00:38:47.360
life, not just this one little thing. That's what really made me start to get, get stuff together.
00:38:54.320
So what were some of the negative ways that you, that you coped with, with this event and these
00:38:59.460
experiences? I drank a lot. You come from, you know, a Western cowboy backgrounds, like people drink a
00:39:07.000
lot of whiskey and chew Copenhagen and that kind of stuff. So I was doing all that. And then I was
00:39:13.740
on these pain pills, just like anyone would be in my situation. I was on OxyContin and Walter Reed was
00:39:20.920
known for putting people on a very high dosage of OxyContin. And I was on an extremely high dosage
00:39:28.540
and I started to abuse those pain pills. I even went so far as to, uh, I had a, uh, guy knew from
00:39:37.240
back before I was in the army, came over to my house and, uh, he was like showing me how to grind
00:39:43.980
them up and, you know, snort them or put them in a glass of coffee or whiskey or just whatever.
00:39:50.360
That's how to grind them up and stuff. So, you know, I wasn't like just giving them away or anything
00:39:55.500
crazy like that, but I was abusing them myself. You know, um, I wasn't, I didn't like turn into
00:40:01.440
some drug dealer, thank God, but I was, uh, abusing them on my own and in all sorts of ways,
00:40:07.600
snorting them and everything else. I mean, I didn't inject them, but it was pretty much as far as you
00:40:12.220
could go without doing that as a 19 year old guy or a 20 year old team leader in Iraq. I just could
00:40:19.100
have never imagined becoming that guy. And I, I did, I slipped clear into that. And it was mostly
00:40:25.040
because of demons. I was dealing with what Jordan Peterson describes as dragons and I hadn't
00:40:31.180
confronted them and I was being consumed by them because of it. How do you begin to change that
00:40:36.060
around? I mean, I, I can't even imagine what that addiction must feel like and you become dependent
00:40:41.820
on that. And that's the way that you operate. Like that is your new reality. How do you then
00:40:46.180
transform into something entirely different? It has to be a choice. And I, I know a lot of 12 step
00:40:53.740
people will say that and I don't mean to insult anybody who's gone through 12 steps, but I don't
00:40:57.840
care too much about their opinion because they have like an 8% success rate or something. So I
00:41:03.460
don't want anybody to confuse me with a 12 stepper, but they're right that, um, it has to be a choice
00:41:09.840
that you've made. You, you have to decide that I just don't want to do that anymore. And it's not
00:41:14.620
that easy to make that decision. But once you've made that decision and really truly made it,
00:41:19.460
then it's not hard to get off of drugs. It's really not every people, my opinion, make more
00:41:25.160
of it than they should. Cause it's, if you really don't want to do it, that's not hard to not abuse
00:41:31.120
a drug. You just don't abuse it. It's a simple, maybe it's not super easy, I guess, but it's very
00:41:37.760
simple. And for me, it was like realizing that I had this and I had made this commitment to myself
00:41:47.200
and to Sergeant Dan and Colonel Mack and others that I was going to live for them because I felt
00:41:53.700
like they had their lives taken away. And I had made this commitment clear back in while I was in
00:41:59.420
Walter Reed and I just had failed at it. Um, and so it was like a renewing that vow made it very easy
00:42:06.820
for me to quit because I realized that people say that you should live life to its fullest or whatever.
00:42:14.160
And I think they're the most famous one is, um, you should live as if this each day is your last
00:42:20.140
day. Right. And someone in my situation understands that very clearly, but that can't be taken as,
00:42:26.920
and it is sometimes taken as, uh, that you should just live this life of pleasure and debauchery,
00:42:34.020
you know, it's nothing but bliss with like intermittent moments of like a little bit of happiness,
00:42:39.120
you know, and that's just the wrong way to live. Kind of like that ain't drink and be married for
00:42:44.280
tomorrow we die type thing. Right. That's exactly right. And you don't want it. And that's the only
00:42:49.380
time that's good advice is if you're about to go to war the next day. Um, if you're living a real
00:42:54.940
life, then it's not, that's just not good advice. So it was realizing that that commitment to live
00:43:01.880
for my brothers who couldn't live anymore meant a hell of a lot more than just go to Vegas every time
00:43:08.440
someone asks you or, or, you know, fly to Florida or whatever I had in these cockamamie ideas in my
00:43:14.600
head. It meant to be a man, a real man and do what's right and live with honor and integrity.
00:43:23.200
That's what it means. And so as soon as I realized that it became much, much easier for me to just get
00:43:30.820
away from all of that because it's just not the honorable thing to do. What did your support group,
00:43:35.700
the people around you, your friends, your colleagues, your, your, your family, what role
00:43:39.240
did they play in your transformation? Um, I was in not so good of a marriage at the time and it's
00:43:45.840
not any fault of hers or anything. That's not what I'm saying. Uh, we're two kids who were just not
00:43:51.300
doing a good job managing a relationship. So that wasn't helping. And then that is not me blaming her.
00:43:57.340
I don't want that to be misconstrued. It's not. Yeah. I understand. Okay. And then my mother,
00:44:02.200
I was living in the same town as my mom. She, you know, I just, I hid everything from her.
00:44:08.540
I didn't want her to know anything like that. So I just hid everything from her. So she wasn't
00:44:12.560
able to do a whole hell of a lot. And my friends that I was hanging out with, most of them were just
00:44:18.260
not very good influences. So I didn't have a lot of support, but that wasn't because people didn't
00:44:24.020
want to support me. If that makes sense. Sure. I had removed myself from the people that could have
00:44:29.220
helped. So I didn't have a ton, but that was my fault and not, not theirs. You seem to get,
00:44:35.140
if I can say a little bit emotional more so than, and I think this conversation, when we talk about
00:44:40.280
your mom, what does that relationship look like now? My mom and I do great. My dad and her separated
00:44:47.560
when I was one years old and, um, he had a bunch of, uh, let's just leave it at that. And so he wasn't
00:44:54.840
really in my life growing up. And when I was real young, a baby, my mom was working and going to
00:45:01.700
school at night and we were extremely, extremely poor and she wouldn't take any welfare. So my
00:45:08.300
grandma, who didn't have a ton of money either would go to the government food lines and get cheese
00:45:15.420
and stuff like that for us and bring it to our house so that we could eat. And now my mom has
00:45:20.640
worked her way up from, from that to being a very successful business woman. And she took great
00:45:26.780
care of us kids. And I just have a lot of not just love and respect for my mom, but admiration
00:45:33.860
because I've seen what she's done with her life. You know, we went from eating hot dogs to lobster,
00:45:40.440
so to speak, you know, and that was all because of her. And so I really, really look up to my mom
00:45:46.360
and I guess I probably do get a little bit emotional because of that.
00:45:59.540
All but one. The one sister was from my father's second marriage.
00:46:03.300
Yeah. Yeah. She's man. That's tough. Yeah. I can definitely see where you're coming from and I can
00:46:07.880
hear it in your voice. And so it's really cool to hear that you've been able to continue to build
00:46:12.060
that relationship. I really admire that about you. Hey, let's, let's talk about PTSD for a minute.
00:46:16.880
All right. Because I know everybody talks about it. I know it's, it's a big topic and a big term,
00:46:21.260
but from somebody who's in this thing, like what's your perspective of PTSD? How do we address this
00:46:28.960
if we need to address it? I mean, I just want to get your thoughts and ideas about it.
00:46:33.340
Yeah. I was on another podcast and I answered this question in a way that I wish I wouldn't have
00:46:38.140
because I was just not having the best day. So I'm glad I'm going to get a chance to fix that. But
00:46:42.500
I think that we have some real serious systemic issues with the way that we view PTSD. And the reason
00:46:51.020
for that is the discussion is being driven by well-meaning, but ideological clinicians and people who
00:46:59.220
don't have it. I'll give you a story. I, I was in a VA sort of, I forget what they called it,
00:47:07.380
but anyway, several people in a room talking about their problems, you know, PTSD problems.
00:47:12.160
I forget what they called that, but we all sat there while this one guy told a story about hitting
00:47:17.260
an IED and how it had messed him up and, uh, all of this. And that, and I'm not diminishing hitting
00:47:21.580
an IED because it ain't good. I mean, most of the guys you see with amputations hit IEDs. So it's not,
00:47:27.160
I'm not diminishing that. It's just, I'm sitting here listening to a story about hitting an IED
00:47:31.800
and thinking, Oh my hell, let's get, get on with it. And that's part of my own PTSD,
00:47:36.960
right? Well, then it gets over. Mostly I'm thinking if I'm being honest, that the guy's
00:47:40.900
not telling the truth. Okay. So I've got like my bullshit detectors going crazy. When we get done,
00:47:46.380
I can't remember if it was me or somebody else asked him where he hit the IED and he said, Kuwait.
00:47:51.440
And so, yeah, instantly everyone in the room goes cold because they know that this guy's lying.
00:47:59.620
And so that was, I think there's way too much of that kind of stuff going on. And too many people
00:48:06.360
are getting benefits because they're telling stories like that, that are just hooey, you know?
00:48:12.380
Now that's not to say that if you're broken up from PTSD and you haven't gotten control of it or
00:48:17.720
whatever, that you don't need help and you shouldn't get benefits while you're getting
00:48:20.880
help and all that. That's, I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is too many people are lying
00:48:24.680
and getting it and that's driving the discussion. So I think we just don't even look at PTSD the
00:48:31.240
right way because we either see it as like the cousin Eddie thing from the vacation movies, you
00:48:37.580
know? Right. Yeah. The metal plate in the head and all that. Yeah, exactly. You're either that guy
00:48:43.900
or you're just like this rabid, angry, you know, going to freak out at every stoplight and murder
00:48:52.080
somebody type of a person. It doesn't seem like anyone realizes that there's kind of an in-between
00:48:57.700
there that, you know, that maybe you can have, it can be a bigger struggle for you than maybe for
00:49:03.380
others to control anger or whatever, but you still control it. And just because you don't sleep very
00:49:09.100
well might not mean that you're going to snap and do something crazy at work or some kind of a thing
00:49:16.160
like this. And it seems to be, we're viewed as either broken and sort of, uh, belong on somewhere
00:49:23.880
on disability hierarchy or where people who are going to freak out and are to be feared. And I just
00:49:30.120
don't, I don't think the truth is either one of those extremes, except for in the most extreme
00:49:33.960
cases. Right. How do you view yourself then? I think that I'm working through a lot of things,
00:49:39.860
but I'm doing, and I, and I'll be working through a lot of things forever, but I'm doing a hell of a
00:49:44.940
lot better than anybody would have thought that I would do. So I feel like I'm on the road to
00:49:50.860
success. You know, like Buddha said something like there's only two mistakes you can make on the road
00:49:55.180
to truth, not starting and quitting early or something like that. I think that I'm on that
00:50:00.680
road somewhere and I haven't quit yet. So I would say that's as positive as a guy can be in that sort
00:50:07.120
of situation. How do you respond and how does it affect you when somebody says you're not going to be
00:50:12.480
able to walk again, or you're not going to be able to use your hand again. And all of the things that
00:50:16.260
I'm sure you've heard over and over and over again, and yet defy those odds.
00:50:20.860
I was crushed, honestly, especially with the not being able to walk thing. I mean, just like you'd
00:50:26.960
expect, I spent a little time kind of wallowing in my own self-pity and that sort of stuff. But after I
00:50:34.040
realized that that was a physical thing and I had been hurt before and all of that kind of stuff. And
00:50:39.960
I took a walk through Arlington. I went to Arlington. I snuck out of the hospital with the help of a
00:50:46.720
friend and we went to Arlington. You literally snuck out?
00:50:49.420
We literally snuck out, yeah. I mean, it wasn't like, you know, it wasn't like some James Bond
00:50:53.960
stuff. We walked out the door, but we weren't supposed to. You weren't, yeah, right.
00:50:58.240
We went to Arlington. I got to Arlington and I, and you know, there's these signs all over the place
00:51:03.960
that say silence and respect. And these are how old grounds and things like this, you know,
00:51:09.180
it was just really compelled. And then I don't, have you ever been to Arlington?
00:51:13.940
I never have. No, I'd love to go, but I never have.
00:51:16.480
Oh, okay. And there's a thing called McClellan's gate and it's got a poem on it on, on the east and
00:51:21.960
west side. So it's kind of broken in two. And on, I think it's Western face, it says like on these
00:51:29.060
eternal camping grounds, their silent tents are spread for glory guards with solemn round the
00:51:34.160
bivouac of the dead rest on embalmed and saying, the dead deers of blood you gave no impious
00:51:39.720
footsteps here shall tread upon the herbage of your grave. It's something real close to that. And
00:51:45.320
powerful. That's how I felt. So I just decided that I wanted to walk and I hadn't walked yet.
00:51:52.640
I had taken like one step. Were you in a wheelchair going through? I was. Okay. All right.
00:51:57.440
Yep. And I had two canes on there that they'd given me, you know, to help get me into the
00:52:03.300
bathroom, but they weren't like for walking. They were like, had four prongs on the bottom of them.
00:52:08.520
You've seen those kinds of things with tennis balls, right? No, I'm just kidding.
00:52:12.480
I was, I did have a walker. Yeah. That was later, but I just kind of got up and I felt like,
00:52:21.780
I don't, I don't know why, but I just felt like walking was the only respectful thing to do.
00:52:29.000
And I haven't gotten to the bottom of a whole, maybe it was like me saying, I'm, you know,
00:52:35.160
because I respect you all so much, I'm willing to endure this pain or something. I don't know
00:52:39.600
exactly why I was so compelled to walk, but I got up and walked all the way to Sergeant
00:52:44.240
Cairn's grave. And it was like a mile, something like that. But, you know,
00:52:48.620
and that was the first time you'd walked in, what'd you say, like months, right?
00:52:52.080
Months. Yeah. And I was swollen and, you know, bleeding and stuff. And I got there and collapsed
00:52:59.520
at his graveside. I felt in some sense, like I was some ignorant wretch to have been complaining
00:53:07.900
about my problems when anybody barely buried in Arlington would gladly trade theirs for mine.
00:53:15.640
So to speak, you know, um, probably not a soul there wouldn't trade me places. So, uh, that was
00:53:22.740
the first major, major, uh, turnaround on the physical side of things. I realized that I just,
00:53:28.960
there's no way that I could feel like I was a man, a real man and, and allow myself to stay in this
00:53:35.200
wheelchair. It just felt like it would be disrespectful to them for some reason that I
00:53:40.540
honestly still don't understand. That's amazing. So outside of some of the medical conditions that
00:53:47.460
you already talked about, are there still some physical conditions that you are dealing with now
00:53:53.300
that you will continue to deal with the rest of your life even potentially?
00:53:56.940
Yeah. I've got some bulging discs in my back now that are kind of new. And then the tendons are
00:54:02.860
messed up in both of my knees and I don't have any cartilage in my left knee, but really, and then I,
00:54:09.460
my IT bands are split up both sides and those give me a lot of problems. And then I've got rods in
00:54:15.360
my femurs. My femurs are way busted up. I mean, they're way busted up. So those cause problems.
00:54:23.300
They will. Yep. And then my hand, you know, that's kind of a work in progress,
00:54:27.940
learning how to use that thing again. But I still, I still run and I'm working on now that we
00:54:34.700
know I'm not going to die of a heart attack. I'm working on getting into this.
00:54:37.460
That's a good step, right? It is. Yeah. Pretty happy with it. Um, I'm going to be
00:54:42.880
running an ultra marathon and I actually ran a dualathlon last year and I almost won it. So
00:54:50.360
is that bike and run? What is that? Yeah, that was a bike and run.
00:54:53.880
And you almost won it. Yeah. In fact, I was in the lead by 10 seconds and now it's my fault because
00:55:00.100
I should have went through the track before I started running it, but I didn't know anything
00:55:03.120
about doathlons is my first one, but the guy was just getting into position. The guy who tells you
00:55:09.240
where to go left and right when you're at the end of the race, there was like a mile left and he was
00:55:14.420
just getting into position and he told me to go right and I was supposed to go left. So I went right
00:55:19.540
and I ended up at a taco bell in downtown St. George. He sent me the wrong way.
00:55:25.780
I love that you said right there, I'll let you finish, but I got to interject here because I love
00:55:29.500
that you said it was my fault for not knowing the course ahead of time. Cause I think it'd be
00:55:34.040
really easy to say, Oh, that son of a gun, you know, like it's his fault. I could have won.
00:55:38.380
And yet you took ownership right there in the first sentence, which I appreciate for sure.
00:55:43.120
Oh yeah. And thank you. That, that was definitely me being dumb and him, you know, he's a kid that's
00:55:48.620
there for probably minimum wage or something. If that, or he gets a free race or something.
00:55:53.080
Yeah, exactly. So it was definitely my fault, but the people who run the race were very cool about it.
00:55:57.740
They, um, you know, because every time you pass a check station, they record your time.
00:56:02.140
And so they were very cool about it. They were like, we'll just give you second place. We can't
00:56:05.840
give you first. And I was like, I don't want a fake ass second place, man. Thank you though.
00:56:09.780
You know, but, um, then they offered to pay for my next race, which was cool. So that's cool.
00:56:15.320
Yeah. So what does, what does life look like for you now? I mean, what do you do for work?
00:56:19.440
I know you're active. I know you hunt, I'm sure. Cause you grew up probably in the rodeo. I imagine,
00:56:25.180
I don't know. I'd imagine that's the case. Are you still doing that stuff?
00:56:28.440
No, I can't ride bulls no more. That's how, especially with those rods. I, from what I
00:56:32.440
understand, if the leg gets busted with the rod in there, there's a higher risk of infection.
00:56:36.660
And then if the rod gets bent, then you're kind of screwed. Like they might have to amputate.
00:56:41.640
Yeah. So that's not good. So bull riding's out, but I still work as a speaker and a author and then
00:56:50.200
a writer. And I work as a guide in the fall. I guide hunters in Idaho. So.
00:56:55.560
Man, it's a, it's incredible all the things. Cause I, I watch, I follow you and I'm inspired
00:56:59.460
by you. It's pretty incredible to see. I mean, if you didn't know what you've gone through,
00:57:03.360
you wouldn't have any idea all that you've been through over the past, well, longer than a decade
00:57:09.080
now. Thanks, man. That's, I think the highest praise that I could get. If someone doesn't
00:57:14.840
notice, I think that's probably the highest, highest praise that I could get.
00:57:19.200
Well, Braxton, we're bumping up against time, man. I think this is probably the longest interview
00:57:23.160
on the podcast that I've done in over a hundred and I don't know, 60 episodes or so now, but
00:57:28.080
worth every minute, man. I wanted to make sure we got into this story because I know you,
00:57:33.100
I know what you've been through. I saw it firsthand. I'm inspired by what you're doing,
00:57:37.640
man. Like it's, it's pretty incredible. The odds that you overcame and the things that you've done.
00:57:42.760
And I'm just, I'm glad to know you. I'm glad to call you a friend for sure.
00:57:46.240
Thanks, my friend. I really, really appreciate that. Thank you.
00:57:49.840
Well, as we wind down, I want to give the guys that are listening an opportunity to connect with
00:57:53.320
you. The book, The Glass Factory is an amazing read. It's raw. You don't pull any punches. You
00:57:58.140
certainly didn't in this conversation and you didn't in the book. I remember I started reading this
00:58:02.360
when my wife and I took the family to Hawaii and they were like trying to break me away to go play.
00:58:06.820
I'm like, hold on, hold on. I get to get through this chapter. And so it's a really well-written
00:58:10.680
book, but it's really compelling because it's, it's raw, man. It's a, so how do the guys pick up
00:58:16.140
the book? How do they learn more about what you're doing and connect with you? And I know you've got
00:58:19.360
some other books coming out here in the near future as well. I do. Yeah. Thank you, bro.
00:58:24.100
The easiest way or the best way to get the book for me is to go to my website, www.braxtonmccoy.com
00:58:30.520
slash the glass factory. And that's just because I make more money if you go there.
00:58:34.500
And that's the only place to get a hardcover right now. And all of those will be autographed
00:58:39.720
or you can buy it on Amazon, which is fine too. But those are all soft covers for now on Amazon.
00:58:45.460
Right on. We'll, we'll make sure we link up your site so we can go there, but keep going. Sorry.
00:58:48.900
Oh, no problem. Thanks bro. Uh, yeah. And then I, I will have a couple more books coming out here
00:58:53.200
pretty soon. So hopefully next year that's, I mean, you know how publishing goes, so it's very tough.
00:58:59.060
I do know how it goes. Absolutely. Well, good. Well, I'm excited for those to come out. Let me
00:59:03.980
ask you this question. I think we kind of tiptoed around it a little bit, but I want to ask you very
00:59:07.560
clearly, what does it mean to be a man? To live a life of integrity and honor, to not just be the
00:59:15.380
guy that your family looks up to, but to be the guy that other people's families look up to,
00:59:21.060
to constantly reach for the ideal. I would say that's what it means to be a man.
00:59:25.800
Powerful man. And you know, what's cool about that is that's what I see you doing. And so it's
00:59:30.460
always good when I see a guy's life that matches up with his words. I mean, we talked about that and
00:59:35.140
being an integrity. So you're definitely living that. So appreciate you, man. Well, Hey, look,
00:59:39.040
as we wind down, as we wrap things up, I want you to know, I appreciate you. I want you to know,
00:59:42.360
I appreciate your sacrifice to this country and all that you've gone through. I appreciate it.
00:59:48.120
Frankly, I just don't have the words that would adequately express my gratitude for,
00:59:51.960
for what you've done and who you've become. So I want to let you know, I appreciate you,
00:59:54.920
brother. Thanks for being on the show today. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me, Ryan.
01:00:00.180
There it is. Gentlemen, my conversation with my friend Braxton McCoy,
01:00:03.440
this was different for me. You know, I've done a lot of interviews. I've done over
01:00:06.980
160 interviews now, but this one was special to me. And I know if you made it this far,
01:00:13.000
that it is probably special to you as well. It's pretty incredible when you have somebody who's
01:00:16.680
willing to come on the show and talk about an experience like this, because it gives us a new
01:00:22.260
framework and a new reference for the way that we look at our lives and how we operate as, as men.
01:00:27.640
So guys reach out to Braxton, buy the book, the glass factory. You will not be disappointed.
01:00:32.220
There was so much that I learned about him and his story, even though he's a friend of mine and we
01:00:36.640
served together that I frankly just had no idea about. It's a great read. It's an inspiring story.
01:00:42.240
And in many ways, maybe not to the extent, but it does parallel our own lives and our own challenges
01:00:47.780
that we have to deal with as men on a daily basis. And he walks through how he's overcome a lot of
01:00:53.260
these hardships and obstacles and still fighting with some of that, frankly. So again, reach out to
01:00:57.680
him on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. You can reach me there as well. Let us know what you thought about
01:01:02.280
the show. Let him know what you think about him just in hearing his story. I know he loves to hear
01:01:06.640
from you guys. And I certainly do as well. Again, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, wherever you're at.
01:01:11.840
In the meantime, guys, you might want to check out again, our exclusive brotherhood, the iron
01:01:16.180
council. This is 380 other men who are banding together, working together, struggling together,
01:01:22.060
succeeding together in different ways across different facets of their lives. And I've always
01:01:26.700
found that working with other motivated, ambitious, dedicated men has served me very, very well.
01:01:32.260
Head to order of man.com slash iron council. Guys, I'm going to sign out for the day on that
01:01:37.860
note. I appreciate you as always being on this journey with me when it comes to reclaiming
01:01:42.940
masculinity. I get so much positive feedback. I also get some negative feedback, but it's a
01:01:47.920
testament to the power of the message that we're sharing here. So if you would, as I sign out,
01:01:52.640
please share this show, share the message, share what we're doing here. And let's, let's span the globe
01:01:57.560
with this movement, order of man guys until Friday, take action and become the man you are
01:02:02.340
meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your
01:02:08.240
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