Order of Man - 163： The True Cost of Liberty ｜ Braxton McCoy

00:00:00.000 Guys, if you listen to just one of my podcasts, please make it be this one. Today, I am joined

00:00:04.940 by my friend and fellow soldier Braxton McCoy. He and I served in Iraq together in 2005, 2006.

00:00:11.540 One day we were playing softball together and the next day I hear he's been hit by a suicide bomber

00:00:16.080 with multiple fractures and life-threatening injuries to himself and others. I didn't actually

00:00:22.560 fully realize the extent of his injuries until this interview. Guys, this one is raw, it's

00:00:27.540 truthful, and it's extremely insightful when it comes to one soldier's perspective of war,

00:00:33.120 responsibility, obligation, and liberty. We talk about the truths and fallacies of PTSD,

00:00:39.120 overcoming the demons of war, how a near-death experience changes your perspective and the

00:00:45.780 true cost of liberty. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears,

00:00:51.080 and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:56.900 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who

00:01:04.040 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:01:09.600 you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler,

00:01:15.140 and I am the host and the founder of this movement, The Order of Man. I am glad that you're tuning in,

00:01:20.600 whether you are here for the very first time or you've been here for just over three years now.

00:01:27.180 I couldn't be more grateful that you're here, that you're tuning in, that you're sharing the episodes,

00:01:31.560 that you're sharing your insights and your stories and the things that you're struggling with and the

00:01:35.440 things that you're overcoming. When I set out to do this three years ago, it was really my goal to

00:01:40.580 create an organization, a brotherhood, a fraternity, whatever you want to call it,

00:01:44.460 that would be able to grow together because we're going through common struggles. We found ways to

00:01:51.380 succeed that other men haven't, and we're sharing those stories in a meaningful way.

00:01:55.720 And if you want to be part of this, there's a couple of different ways you can do that.

00:01:59.100 Number one is this. You're listening to the podcast right now. That's the first thing.

00:02:02.940 Number two, you can join our Facebook group. We've got about 45,000 men in that group now,

00:02:08.340 and we are having some serious and some incredible conversations about the topic of masculinity in

00:02:14.520 general and then how that all breaks down anywhere from leadership to self-development to mindset to

00:02:20.700 physical fitness to being a better father, a better husband. I mean, you name it. If it's a

00:02:24.900 conversation that's important to you, we are having that conversation over there. And then we've also

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00:02:34.460 I want to be a better man. And I want some guidance and some structure and some discipline

00:02:38.960 and accountability in doing that. That's called the iron council. I'll mention that during the

00:02:43.780 show sometime. So I won't talk too much about that for right now. Now, guys, outside of that,

00:02:48.780 I just want to introduce our show sponsors, but they're more than show sponsors. These are my

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00:03:43.980 I'm glad to call them friends. So guys go check it out. Origin, Maine.com slash order of man.

00:03:49.080 And then when you get there, make sure you use order O R D E R and all caps at checkout,

00:03:53.560 and you'll get 5% off on your order again, origin, Maine.com slash order of man,

00:03:59.400 and then use order as the code at checkout. Now, as I mentioned before, I have my friend

00:04:03.920 and fellow soldier Braxton McCoy on the show today. We have lost touch over the past 10 years or so

00:04:09.180 since we served together in Iraq. But when I found out that he had written a book about our experience

00:04:14.020 and more specifically his experience in Iraq, I knew that this would make for a very, very powerful

00:04:20.640 conversation. After more than a decade of physical therapy and more surgeries than I care to think

00:04:27.380 about, Braxton has regained most of his strength and rebounded emotionally from an extremely traumatic

00:04:33.880 situation. You're going to hear about that, of course, in the conversation today. He's twice served

00:04:38.460 as national advocate for the army wounded warrior program and twice as veterans advocate for the

00:04:44.160 coalition of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans in the district of Columbia. His four years as an advocate

00:04:49.980 were focused on getting veterans back to work as a meaningful way to outflank post-traumatic stress

00:04:56.860 disorder, which we get into a little bit in the conversation today as well. In 2013, he started

00:05:01.980 warrior employment project, which is a nonprofit designed to connect veteran families in need with

00:05:07.140 CEOs eventually leading to the veterans employment. So guys don't necessarily need to take notes on this

00:05:13.820 one, but I would encourage you to tune in, listen in, really consider and contemplate what my friend has to

00:05:19.600 offer and what he has to share today. Very powerful, very insightful. And I think you'll walk away with

00:05:25.440 a very new perspective on life in general. Braxton, what's going on, man? Thanks for joining me on the

00:05:32.260 show today. Thank you. I'm glad to be here. Yeah, I know. Gosh, it's been a long time since we've

00:05:37.120 talked. I mean, it's probably been what, 10 years or so since we even had a conversation, which I can't

00:05:41.600 believe it's been that long. Yeah, I think it's probably been 12 maybe. Well, that's how long it's

00:05:47.040 been since we got back from Iraq. So maybe, maybe that really was the last time we're able to converse

00:05:52.400 and have, have at least a conversation. I remember the last time we hung out was playing softball

00:05:56.200 together in Iraq. That's what I was thinking too. It had to have been on rocket field. I mean, I,

00:06:01.520 unless maybe we talked at a homecoming or something could have happened, but there's so many people.

00:06:06.080 It's hard to say. Yeah. Cause I remember coming off that plane in Cedar city and you were the first

00:06:12.340 person to greet us as we came off the plane, which I thought was a pretty cool gesture. Just the fact

00:06:16.660 that you were there. And I think at the time you were, you were still on crutches, I think at the

00:06:20.380 time when you met us. Yeah. Thanks. Um, it was, I was on canes, but that was one of my goals was to

00:06:25.580 be able to meet my friends upright, you know, my brothers. And, uh, especially since everyone was

00:06:30.760 saying that I wasn't going to be able to walk, I, you know, as a young NCO, the last thing you want is for

00:06:35.640 your friends to think that you've been crippled for life. I guess I just didn't want to appear

00:06:41.260 to have lost that battle. Yeah. Well, I don't think anybody would have thought that anyways,

00:06:46.560 but it's a testament to you and your strength. And of course your story and your experiences and

00:06:51.400 the things that you shared in, in your new book, which you sent me a copy of man. And you know what?

00:06:55.460 I gotta be honest. Like, I mean, I was there, right? I wasn't there for that particular event

00:06:59.660 that we'll talk about today, but I was there in Iraq with you. And there was a lot that I just

00:07:04.120 didn't even fully know or appreciate about what you went through.

00:07:07.280 Thanks. You know, what's funny is a, a lot of our guys kind of said the same thing. I think

00:07:12.580 there was a pretty serious communication gap between Walter Reed and our unit.

00:07:17.380 Let's do this. Let's start from the beginning because I think your story is one that really

00:07:22.200 needs to be heard because I think speaking of disconnects, I think there's a huge disconnect

00:07:26.360 between the public perception of freedom and liberty and the actual sacrifices that go into

00:07:34.420 this. And fortunately you didn't lose your life obviously, but I think there's a lot of sacrifice

00:07:39.580 on your part for defending our freedoms and liberty. So walk me through, if you would,

00:07:45.760 the events, maybe the overview of the events that transpired in Iraq and near the glass factory

00:07:51.020 on this recruiting mission. Yeah. My team was assigned to secure a small glass factory that

00:07:58.600 was being used to recruit Iraqis to become police officers in the area. When we got there, there was

00:08:03.600 a bunch of people already there and there were just all kinds of signs that things were looking like

00:08:07.580 they were not going to go well for us that day. It was an atypical type of a day. So we radioed up and

00:08:13.620 said, Hey, something's not right here. And, uh, you know, just kind of letting everybody know.

00:08:17.440 And then we went out and, uh, into the crowd and there was a bunch of people there and about a

00:08:22.960 thousand Iraqis and a semi truck crashed through one of our perimeters and a small, uh, one way

00:08:29.240 gunfight in, uh, ensued. And then Iraqis kind of scattered all over the place. And then during the

00:08:35.940 process of getting them back into lines and, uh, getting a handle on the whole thing, a suicide

00:08:40.500 bomber detonated his vest and that killed, uh, our Marine dog handler and, uh, Colonel Mack. And, um,

00:08:48.980 it wounded, I think three or four other guys. And I was one of the guys that got wounded. My injuries

00:08:54.340 were bilateral femur fractures, multiple bilateral. I think my left one was broken three times and my

00:09:00.240 right one too. And, uh, my back was broken and both of the bones in my right radius and owner were

00:09:06.140 broken. My left humerus was broken. All the bones in my right hand were shattered and had a brain

00:09:11.840 injury and some broken ribs. And my median nerve was transected at my wrist. And what does that mean?

00:09:18.040 Transected at my wrist? Uh, it means this is no, uh, medical expert here, but my understanding was

00:09:23.640 that it means that it was nicked. And so it doesn't, because it's an electric impulse in there,

00:09:29.120 it doesn't have good current, uh, or it doesn't, excuse me, doesn't conduct well anymore. So now I have

00:09:35.180 only a partial feeling there. And there was some question as to whether I, cause at the time I had

00:09:40.220 no feeling at all. And there was some question as to whether I would have any feeling in my hand,

00:09:44.400 but I, I do now. So, which is kind of a, it's kind of a paradoxical thing. Cause it's like,

00:09:49.240 oh great. I have feeling now, but now it just hurts like hell half of the time. So yeah, yeah,

00:09:53.360 I bet. I mean, is it still hurting you today? Even 12 years later? Oh, yes. Oh, sometimes it feels

00:09:57.700 like it's on fire. It's crazy. But other times it feels kind of normal, which is cool. But

00:10:02.820 the times where it feels like it's burning, I kind of wish I couldn't feel it if I'm being honest.

00:10:07.780 I mean, I don't even want to compare it to this, but I remember I was closing the door on my truck

00:10:12.360 and I hit my elbow on the truck and it shot nerve pain through my fingers and it lasted for months.

00:10:17.960 I'm not comparing the two. I'm just saying like, I know how long lasting that can be. And I can't

00:10:22.980 imagine maybe even knowing that this is just, this is, this is life now, right?

00:10:27.700 Yeah, that is life. I mean, that's the key point where you just hit on right there is

00:10:31.460 this is a thing that Peterson says all the time, but he didn't get it. He didn't make

00:10:35.400 it up. It comes from the Buddhists and the Bible and everywhere else. I mean, it's life

00:10:39.740 is suffering. That's what it is. My suffering is really no more or less maybe than the next

00:10:47.080 guy's. It's just different. I mean, it might be a little more in some cases, you know, I

00:10:51.800 don't want to say that everyone suffers equally. That's maybe a stretch, but we all suffer.

00:10:55.840 That's the universal story. Right. And that's like accepting that is the most important thing

00:11:01.120 we can do. And the catch 22 or paradox of that is that by accepting it, you defeat it. And that's

00:11:07.740 the only way to defeat it. So it's, it's kind of a weird thing.

00:11:11.180 Yeah. That's what I was going to ask is what separates those that have traumatic experiences

00:11:15.580 like we all do. And of course, an experience that's significant like yours is from somebody

00:11:20.980 who takes that experience and uses it as an opportunity to self-destruct and implode in

00:11:26.260 a way. And you think it's just a matter of accepting the reality for what it is and driving

00:11:30.500 forward.

00:11:31.460 I do. And I, I would say that I can, I can say that unequivocally because I was at one

00:11:36.520 point, the guy who was using it as an excuse to self-destruct. So I've kind of been on both

00:11:42.000 sides of that. I went from being sort of hailed a hero, not just kind of, I mean, that's

00:11:47.400 what people were calling me. I don't think of myself that way, but that's people, you

00:11:51.780 know, were hailing me this hero and that all felt good. And then I started to have a few

00:11:56.620 problems and then I just sort of gave up in some sense. And, um, I was drinking and abusing

00:12:02.480 pills and doing all kinds of negative stuff. So I have been the guy that's destroyed his

00:12:07.080 life because he couldn't accept the psychological impacts of tragedy. I was fine with the pain

00:12:14.280 and the torment and stuff that that wasn't a big deal. It was dealing with the psychological

00:12:18.340 after effects. So I, I guess I would say I've lived both of those lives and that's why I

00:12:22.500 feel I can say that. So unequivocally, why don't you think you're a hero, man? I think

00:12:28.160 that's a pretty good question, I guess, or a pretty fair question. Here's what I'll say.

00:12:33.500 Given that Sergeant can died there and in the way that he died was he's the, he was the, uh,

00:12:39.360 the dog handler, the Marine dog handler. He was. I would say if that guy's a hero,

00:12:44.200 then I'm not whatever he's labeled. And I would say that that's mine.

00:12:48.420 So is it a, is it a thing of respect? Is that where you're coming from?

00:12:51.580 I think so. Yeah. I think when I hear Ray Benavidez story or, you know, um, a guy like

00:12:57.460 this or, or Sergeant Meyer, or, you know, I hear these kinds of stories. I think those

00:13:01.580 are heroes and I'm just like a guy who was there, you know, doing his job. So.

00:13:06.440 Interesting. Yeah. It's a really interesting perspective. And I've talked with a lot of

00:13:09.580 guys. Um, one conversation I had recently was with Dakota Meyer, who you're probably

00:13:13.560 familiar with a medal of honor recipient. He says the same thing. He's like, I'm, I'm

00:13:17.580 not a hero, man. I was just doing what I needed to do. And it's really interesting

00:13:20.520 from, from my perspective, from where I sit and from where I think most people sit,

00:13:24.340 they would say that, that you are, but I guess you have ultimate say in that, right?

00:13:28.240 It's your life.

00:13:30.040 Yeah, I guess so. I, what's funny cause you bring it up, uh, Dakota Myers. I, I

00:13:35.140 definitely think that guy's a hero. So it's, it's kind of a, I don't know.

00:13:38.900 Yeah. Interesting. Well, let's go back to the, these events. Cause you talked about a

00:13:43.340 truck crashing through the barriers. Was that a coordinated distraction strategy or was that

00:13:49.220 completely unrelated?

00:13:50.460 I've never got an answer on that. And through experience, you know, as well as I do that

00:13:55.540 sometimes people get scared and do stupid things and that could have been what happened right there. 0.97

00:14:01.060 But it's hard not to think that it probably was coordinated, especially since we were on the 0.96

00:14:07.940 fourth day of a mission that was supposed to be three days. So there's plenty of time for

00:14:11.420 pre-planning and all of that. Um, but I've, I've never, I've never heard. So why did the mission go

00:14:17.620 longer? You mean, you said it went an extra day. Why it did? Yeah. Uh, day three, we had so many

00:14:23.320 people lined up trying to get through that. We weren't able to get to them all. And so the command,

00:14:29.200 the talk said we needed to run an extra day. And, and that was to, from my understanding as you know,

00:14:34.520 just to lay boots on the ground guy, my understanding was that they were doing that

00:14:38.120 because they wanted to keep their word to the Iraqi people. Um, they didn't want, we were 1.00

00:14:42.980 trying to win. We were hearts and minds campaign as you remember. And so we felt like since we said

00:14:47.580 we would process everyone, we needed to make sure that we processed everyone.

00:14:51.000 What's your perception about our, our role over there and specifically with our tour? Uh, you know,

00:14:56.680 I know there's a lot of people that have hard feelings or wonder what the objective is,

00:14:59.840 but for you being boots on ground and being face to face with the Iraqi civilians, what is your

00:15:06.900 perception? Good, bad, and different? I would say that we, we did some good things and some not so

00:15:13.680 wise things. What that conflict was to every man, the answer to that lies in his own heart.

00:15:20.700 I think that some people maybe didn't do the right things all the time, but most of us,

00:15:25.600 I feel were there doing their best. I don't think I knew I didn't see a lot of evil and that kind of

00:15:30.460 stuff. Like what I've, if you were to, you know, I don't want to be political, but if you were to hear

00:15:35.280 one side's story here in America of what went on in that war, I would say that I did not see much,

00:15:40.580 if any of that sort of negative negativity and evil conduct by us service members. So I can say

00:15:47.560 unequivocally that that kind of stuff did not happen often. Abu Ghraib, that kind of stuff was a very,

00:15:52.540 isolated incident, but there were little individual things going on all of the time and

00:15:59.280 little small skirmishes and gunfights all the time where we, we may or may not have always done

00:16:04.900 what was right. And the only person that can answer those questions or the only person that can answer

00:16:10.080 that is the person who was there at the moment. And so it, as a whole, I would say based on the time

00:16:16.200 I spent living with a few Iraqi police officers, I think we did our best to do a good thing. And we did

00:16:21.360 bring some liberty to a nation that had none, even if that liberty didn't come with security and peace

00:16:27.880 and some of the other things that we think of typically with liberty in the West, we did bring

00:16:32.140 liberty and that is worth something if you're willing to fight for it. Well, I think it's really easy to

00:16:37.720 look at it from the outside perspective and think that liberty comes easy because you're not the one

00:16:43.040 in the literal battle fighting for it. Right. Exactly. I we've in the West, I feel we've we've

00:16:50.040 been blessed with both liberty and security for so long that we've allowed those things to become

00:16:55.540 synonymous and they're just not. Interesting. You said that this day was atypical. Was that just

00:17:02.300 because the size of the populace that showed up or were there some other signs that you can pinpoint

00:17:08.200 or was it just a feeling like, like walk me through this? Why was it different than any other

00:17:12.500 day? The first thing is they were on time and that just never happens. So we knew for sure that

00:17:19.860 something wasn't right when the Iraqi people were there on time. Why would they show up on time? 1.00

00:17:23.620 Like, let's just assume for a second that they knew something was going to happen today.

00:17:28.460 Why would they, number one, why would they show up on time? And number two, why would they show up at

00:17:32.240 all? I think that the way a lot of that stuff worked is whoever was doing the coordinating,

00:17:39.080 generally a cleric of some kind would know because he lives in that culture that those people are late

00:17:44.860 all the time. So we probably would say you're supposed to be there an hour before, or maybe

00:17:49.640 even two hours before the actual scheduled time. And that would get everybody there. Um, and that would

00:17:55.180 allow, you know, uh, make it so that he wouldn't have to tell them exactly everything that was going on.

00:17:59.400 And it would be a coordinated attack between just the actors and then the sort of puppet master,

00:18:05.640 if that makes sense. So would a cleric like that put his people in that environment as a sacrifice

00:18:12.540 for what he would deem the greater good, I guess. I don't think that's the right word,

00:18:16.360 but I think that's probably his perspective. I think that's actually the right choice of words

00:18:20.860 that you used. That's exactly what he would think. And let's just say it wouldn't always be a

00:18:25.240 cleric, you know, just a bad guy. Let's label them, which were sometimes clerics. 0.97

00:18:29.800 What he would see as the greater good is destroying infidels and sacrificing his people is no big deal 1.00

00:18:36.440 because people who die and for the word of God, like I'm trying to tiptoe around this a little bit,

00:18:42.020 but people who die for the faith die as a martyr and they go straight to heaven. So it's not necessarily

00:18:46.240 a sacrifice to him because those people are going straight to live, you know, with God.

00:18:52.040 Right. He thinks he's getting something better than what is currently going on.

00:18:56.040 Oh yeah. Better by worlds and worlds. So, so yeah, I mean, I guess sacrifice isn't even the

00:19:02.420 right word. It's just a, it's a very strange, it's a worldview that I can't quite understand. Let's say.

00:19:08.640 Well, I think there's a different perspective that you and I have. I mean, I, for example,

00:19:12.500 I've got a family to take care of. That's just one element of this is I've got a family to take

00:19:16.660 care of. So if I leave this world intentionally or unintentionally, then I, by default,

00:19:21.560 I'll leave my family, my wife and my kids hanging and I'm not okay with that.

00:19:25.340 That's right. That's absolutely right. And sometimes the actual actor of, as far as

00:19:31.580 martyrs go, like the suicide bomber in this case, will be promised that his family will be taken

00:19:36.600 care of. So that's maybe part, part of the thing, but the rest of the people who die there,

00:19:40.880 they are definitely just sacrificial bodies, but.

00:19:44.640 Interesting. Interesting. So walk me through this now. You, it's a little bit atypical,

00:19:48.160 you know, something's strange, something's off. And I think if I remember correctly,

00:19:53.160 the dog identifies this individual prior to him blowing himself up. Is that right?

00:20:00.240 That is right. Yeah. Bruno grabbed the dog's name was Bruno. He smelled the explosive and grabbed a

00:20:06.420 hold of the guy by the arm and started dragging to the ground. And then he detonated on the way down

00:20:11.500 and going toward the ground made it so that less people died because explosions take the path of

00:20:16.800 least resistance. So instead of just being able to go out in a sort of spherical shape,

00:20:21.000 right. Three, 60 standing, right. It was then more out and up and the wounds on my body would

00:20:27.600 definitely reflect that because I have the intensity of holes increases the higher up you go. Like I

00:20:33.900 only have one that broke my left tibia, one ball bearing that hit me. And then from my knees to my

00:20:39.260 hips, I had something like 30. So it was like, gosh, really obvious that it was pouring on as it went

00:20:45.460 upwards. So that is crazy. Yeah. I can't, I can't even imagine that, man. It's so unreal,

00:20:52.420 like surreal to me. And, and I, obviously for you, it's completely, completely different. So

00:20:57.580 it knocked you out. Right. And you woke up like, did you think you were like, what happened? Did

00:21:02.780 you think you were dead or, or like what's going through your mind? If anything, at this point,

00:21:07.260 I definitely thought that I was dying. I knew I wasn't dead because it hurt way too much.

00:21:12.520 Yeah. I thought there's just no way in hell that, that, that I could be dead right now because this

00:21:17.640 is pretty painful, but I definitely thought that I was dying and I was laying on my stomach when I

00:21:23.540 came to, and there was a bunch of body parts underneath me and, uh, intestines and stuff like

00:21:30.040 that. And I was kind of fiddling with them with my left hand. You know, when you get knocked out and

00:21:34.980 you're, you're just hazy and your brain's not working. And I was looking at these organs and then I

00:21:40.360 finally thought, Holy crap. That's, um, those are my guts is what I thought. I thought I'd been 0.95

00:21:45.100 You thought they were yours. I did. Yeah. I kind of fiddled with them for a minute and got myself

00:21:50.680 propped up on my elbow a little bit. And then my, my buddy, Johnny got there and started to pull

00:21:56.360 bodies off of me. There were dead bodies on top of me. And I didn't, I didn't know this at the time,

00:22:00.520 but he started pulling them off of me. And then with the last one went the sort of gore.

00:22:05.940 And then I could see my hips for the first time. I knew that I wasn't blown in half,

00:22:11.100 but then when they rolled me over to start trying to patch wounds, my legs were so broken

00:22:16.720 up that they were just like, I just, I think I've always described it as like a sack full

00:22:22.160 of wrenches. I mean, my, my femurs had shrunk to about 12 inches in total length, all the

00:22:28.820 bones compressed. And as they broke, the muscles made the bones come together and also

00:22:34.300 did everything up. Okay. Yeah. So it was all just bleeding inside there and I could feel

00:22:39.940 the bones grinding against each other. And it was, it was pretty nasty. So, um, that was

00:22:47.440 the next moment where I thought, you know, when I was able to look at my legs, I thought,

00:22:52.500 Oh, there's just no way that you can be that broken and live. You know, I was pretty convinced

00:22:59.520 that there was just absolutely no way I was going to make it through that.

00:23:02.120 So what are you telling yourself at this point? You're at, you're at this point. It sounds

00:23:06.220 like you think you're pretty much going to die. What, what type of agreements or things

00:23:12.320 are running through your head? Are you talking with God right now? Are you talking to yourself?

00:23:17.160 Are you like, what are you, what are you doing? Like you think you're going to die. So what's

00:23:20.380 going through your mind right now? I wasn't afraid of dying, but I wasn't sure what it meant

00:23:26.980 to die. Let's say I grew up, um, a Christian guy and all of this, but during the war, I

00:23:33.660 was, my faith became a sort of an internal conflict and I wasn't sure what I believed

00:23:38.420 about anything anymore. Um, and so I was asking myself some of the life's biggest questions.

00:23:44.200 Actually, I didn't know what it was going to be like to die, or I was really kind of stuck

00:23:49.780 in a deep, deep sort of thought there. And then I started to think that I just wanted

00:23:54.520 someone to tell my mom, um, that I loved her and I wanted her to be comforted in some way.

00:24:02.180 And I knew how big of a chore that was going to be. So I told Johnny that he needed to tell,

00:24:08.280 I was married at the time and he needed to tell my wife and my mother that I loved them

00:24:13.100 and all of this stuff. And, and I, and I'm not saying this to be, you know, like some kind

00:24:17.580 of, um, calloused ex-husband or anything, but it definitely, the wife part was definitely

00:24:24.220 more just because you're supposed to, I was really concerned about my mom, particularly since

00:24:29.980 I volunteered for the deployment and, you know, I grew up riding bulls and racing dirt bikes

00:24:35.700 and doing all the, putting her through all of this torment and everything, you know, fear

00:24:39.480 and injuries and broken bones and all this kind of stuff. And then I was going to die at 19

00:24:44.220 and I just felt like she didn't deserve that, you know? And so I was hoping someone could

00:24:49.760 help her. And that's why I was telling Johnny and he kept telling me it was like a scene from

00:24:54.640 a movie and it, it sounds cliche, but it was really happening. And he was saying, you're

00:24:58.460 going to tell him yourself, don't worry about it. You're going to tell him yourself. And

00:25:00.880 I thought he was wrong. You know, I really did. And then I just kept kind of passing in

00:25:06.820 and out of consciousness. I'm not sure whether it was due to a blood loss or, or just shock,

00:25:13.440 but probably some mixture of the two. And then when I came back in a few different times and

00:25:20.100 I started to realize that nothing was happening when I was out, it was just like the, the lights

00:25:24.920 were turned off. And then I started to wonder if that's just what it was to die. It was just like

00:25:31.260 nothing. When did you feel like, and I don't know if this is days or weeks or months, like when did

00:25:37.820 you feel like you were in the clear for what that word, you know, that you were going to live?

00:25:42.500 Obviously you have a lot of other things that we need to talk about that you need to work through

00:25:45.380 and you're still working through, I'm sure, but that you knew you were going to live.

00:25:48.040 Yeah. After I made it through a couple of surgeries and got all the way back to Walter Reed.

00:25:54.540 So let's say a couple of weeks into ICU, I started to think that there was a pretty good chance that

00:26:00.240 I was going to make it. And then I had a overdose and I about died from that. And then I got a

00:26:08.140 gangrene and another blood infection. And then I ended up having a blood clot travel from my legs

00:26:14.480 to my lungs and collapsed my lung. And that almost killed me. So it was like three or four

00:26:19.700 incidents in Walter Reed. And then it started to feel like I was just never, ever going to be out

00:26:24.400 of the woods. So it was kind of weird. And to be honest, I haven't said this to anybody, but they

00:26:29.800 put this IVC filter in when I had that blood clot travel to my lungs. And this, I didn't write about

00:26:35.600 in the book because I didn't, I hadn't processed it yet, but I've been meeting with doctors because it

00:26:41.000 turns out that that's potentially going to have some very detrimental effects for my longevity.

00:26:46.840 So it's like, even the things that saved me in the short term might, might have problems here later

00:26:51.880 on. What is that IVC filter? What is that? It was like, almost like a stent, except for instead of

00:26:58.420 to open up, instead of being used to open up the, the vein, it goes in your interior vena cava,

00:27:05.480 which is the biggest vein in your body from what I understand. And it's shaped almost like an

00:27:10.960 umbrella without, uh, without the cloth, just like the skeleton. Yeah. Yeah. And it goes in

00:27:19.100 there and then opens up and then it is designed to break up clots as they travel from the legs

00:27:23.980 up to the lungs. Oh, because that wiring or that, whatever filters the clot through.

00:27:29.320 Correct. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. Apparently they were supposed to be taking these things out,

00:27:33.620 but they weren't taking them out. And mine was one that didn't get taken out. So it's been taken

00:27:38.640 out since though. No, it hasn't. Oh, really? It's still in there. Yeah. And so we're trying to find

00:27:44.360 out and now they're telling me it's scarred in. And so, and now they're starting to see lots of

00:27:49.200 problems with them. So I guess I've, I'm not out of the woods, you know? Uh, so maybe that's what

00:27:55.400 makes that question so difficult to answer, but. This is a really interesting perspective and I'm trying

00:28:00.780 to be sensitive of what you're going through, but I'm genuinely curious that like, how does life

00:28:05.300 change for you? Knowing that, man, I've got these, I've got these medical conditions that

00:28:10.060 have the potential to, to kill me. And what, how do you live life now?

00:28:15.560 Well, if it's latest one, I got to back up and tell you a quick story. January 5th was our 12 year

00:28:21.600 anniversary day of what the alive day is some people call them. And I started to have some chest pain

00:28:27.980 and, uh, you know, I've been trained for assaults marathons. I'm doing a lot of running and stuff.

00:28:32.360 And I didn't think too much of it, but then it hurt enough that I, I figured I better say

00:28:37.400 something. So I told my wife and she called her mom who was a, uh, EMT for a long time. And she was

00:28:43.380 like, you just need to go to the hospital. Cause you know, it's not good. So I go in there. Mostly

00:28:47.640 my fear at that point is this filter is what I'm thinking that something's gone wrong with this IBC

00:28:52.300 filter. And I go in there and they do a bunch of tests and they say, well, the good news is you

00:28:58.160 didn't have a heart attack today, but it does look like you've got some damage to your heart and that

00:29:03.800 could have happened any point in the past. And you may even had a heart attack before. So I have all

00:29:09.200 of these little things and I came home, uh, little things that are maybe not that little, but I came

00:29:14.940 home from that and I had, I have a brand new son, you know, he's eight months old and a 10 year old

00:29:20.660 daughter. At first I wanted to just kind of almost, I don't know, man, I almost wanted to just cry and

00:29:27.620 beg God to just help, you know, give me a break. Feel like I've dealt with enough stuff. And then I

00:29:33.400 had this overwhelming compulsion to just say thank you because I could have died 12 years ago and never

00:29:42.300 had the opportunity to lay by my son and watch him breathe at night or marry a girl who's changed my

00:29:50.640 life in ways that I could just never even express. And I could have missed out on all of these things.

00:29:57.840 So to piss and moan about the health problems that I have now would be almost like flying in the face

00:30:05.260 of the, the sort of blessings that I've already received. It's a complaint now would be to take

00:30:10.380 those things for granted. And there's no, there's no way around that. So every night I say what I would

00:30:17.360 consider my version of a prayer and I just say, thank you. I don't ever ask for anything. I just

00:30:23.020 hug my son and say, thank you. Cause I've been blessed with more than I could have ever dreamed

00:30:29.120 of when I was laying there dying. If there's one thing I know, it's that having other men to lean on

00:30:36.560 and rely on and lift up is an extremely powerful way to speed up the results that you're after. And

00:30:43.860 you are after results. You wouldn't be listening to this show if that wasn't the case. Yes, you can

00:30:49.000 go at life alone and you might just make it. But the question is at what cost could you achieved the

00:30:55.680 health that you're after relationship success, financial security quickly and more efficiently

00:31:01.980 with the help of other men who know the way. And the answer in case you don't already know is yes,

00:31:08.540 but most men in my experience are not willing to invest in themselves, even to the slightest

00:31:14.560 degree. You know, they'll listen to the podcast. They'll read a few books here and there, and then

00:31:19.580 they'll do absolutely nothing with the information that they've learned. And they'll continue to go at

00:31:24.980 life the way they've always done it. If that isn't you, if you are somebody who is willing to invest

00:31:31.200 some time, some energy, some money, some resources into growing and developing your life into what

00:31:37.800 it's meant to be, then I would encourage you to band with me and 380 other men inside of our

00:31:43.540 brotherhood, the iron council. You're going to gain the framework, the guidance, the direction,

00:31:48.680 accountability from other high achieving men like yourself across all facets of life. So you can learn

00:31:54.660 more about what we're up to at order of man.com slash iron council. Again, order of man.com slash iron

00:32:01.300 council. In the meantime, guys, let's head back to the conversation with Braxton.

00:32:05.300 I want to go back to something that you said earlier, which is that you volunteered when we

00:32:11.860 deployed. You weren't part of the triple deuce. You weren't part of our unit. So why, why did you

00:32:16.820 volunteer? Why, why did you feel compelled to go with us? It was the same reason why I enlisted in

00:32:22.020 the first place. In all honesty, I just wanted to go punch back. You know, I was, uh, in high school

00:32:29.000 when the towers came down. And so I just felt like it was, you know, if people were going to bring war

00:32:35.660 to my country, then I'm going to go take swings. And that's all I wanted to do. And word came through

00:32:42.380 the grapevine that that deployment was going to be a really hot one. And I figured hot meant most

00:32:48.600 opportunity to punch the enemy in the mouth. So that's why I said, that's what I want to be on.

00:32:54.500 Did you feel like you accomplished what you wanted to now that I've, that's a question I've

00:32:59.540 never gotten. Uh, man, I don't know. I don't know, man, this is, this is great. I mean,

00:33:05.500 this is absolutely great. You know, I've had conversations with guys that have gone through,

00:33:09.500 I think similar experiences, but just like knowing you and having this connection and, uh, just being

00:33:14.700 friends. Like, I mean, I vividly remember the last time that I saw you was we were playing softball,

00:33:20.800 man. We were on the same team. And I think two days later I get this news and I'm trying to

00:33:24.340 think about this. Like, I don't know if I try to like forget it a little bit in a way,

00:33:29.160 or just like not think about it because there was events that happened that, I mean, you just drive

00:33:33.860 on, right. Cause you've got a mission to do and a mission to accomplish. And I'm thinking about it

00:33:37.660 now. I'm like, why, like, why doesn't that affect you more in the moment? I guess my perspective is

00:33:42.740 like, don't think about it. You've got a mission. You got to keep going. I don't know. Do you have a

00:33:46.460 perspective on that? That's right. I think the way you did it was the right way to do it in the

00:33:50.660 moment. You can't, it's just like people, when they complain about the army, not taking care of

00:33:56.760 them after they get wounded, that's a misguided view of the whole thing. Uh, the army's job is

00:34:02.220 not to take care of you after you got wounded. The army's job is to be combat effective. Um,

00:34:07.200 and your job as a soldier within that army or Marine Corps or wherever is to remain combat effective.

00:34:13.180 And if, if modeling something up for another few months is the best way to stay alive, then that's

00:34:18.700 the right thing to do. So I think it's perfectly natural what you did. And when you're home,

00:34:24.700 then you can deal with that kind of stuff, you know, those thoughts and everything. It's just

00:34:28.440 not going to do you any favors, uh, help you in any way to sit over there and think about, man,

00:34:33.140 that guy had played softball with my buddy there. He's all kinds of messed up, you know,

00:34:37.020 it's just, it's not going to help you. So. Yeah. I mean, it's just an interesting perspective

00:34:41.100 because I think generally society says to be vulnerable and show your, your emotions. And,

00:34:47.880 and while I, I agree, I mean, I think there's a time and a place for that. I think as men,

00:34:51.820 there's certainly a time and a place where the right response is to not show those vulnerabilities.

00:34:58.240 And I don't think society would say that, but I think there's a lot of cases and this being one

00:35:02.420 of them where the masculine, the manly thing to do is to bottle that up and drive on and complete

00:35:07.960 the mission that has to be completed. That's right. There's no doubt of that. And we've known that

00:35:13.240 for centuries and centuries and centuries. I mean, it's in, it's in every story of war that's ever

00:35:19.240 been written from Odysseus, you know, down to even modern books like Shane and these kinds of things.

00:35:25.180 I mean, it's just only in the last, my lifetime, 20 years that we've decided that you should just

00:35:31.180 always cry. You know, that's crazy. It's stupid. It's, it, it's just like pretending that we didn't

00:35:37.920 learn anything and, you know, the past, however many thousand years, depending on your worldview.

00:35:43.620 Well, let's fast forward a little bit here. So one of the things that you said is that

00:35:47.620 there was a time that you couldn't deal with the after effects of this psychologically,

00:35:52.880 mentally, emotionally, but obviously that's changed to some degree. So what during the process

00:35:58.800 of physical, mental, emotional recovery changed for you? Was it a switch? Was it a gradual process?

00:36:04.520 What did this actually look like for you? I talked a lot about this in my book, because I think that

00:36:10.060 it's one of the characteristics of ascension or coming back from Hades or hell or whatever is

00:36:17.840 that it's steps, you know, we always describe a slippery slope into hell. So we can always sort

00:36:23.500 of point to the, the action that was stepping on the slope. And then it was just like a quick fall,

00:36:28.340 but coming out is like a ladder and we, you know, there's 400 rungs on the ladder or something.

00:36:33.780 It's very difficult to remember each individual little thing that happened that was positive.

00:36:39.120 Positivity is just very hard to remember it for whatever reason. I think it's a wiring problem

00:36:44.520 with humanity. But, um, for me, one of the ones I pointed to in the book was I was working for a

00:36:50.380 company based out of Denver and I was in Colorado Springs at this event and I was there speaking.

00:36:57.160 And then my boss was speaking and I want the company to remain anonymous. I don't want to be in

00:37:01.700 trouble there. So at the end of the event, a guy came up and said, is it true that you have

00:37:08.220 a hundred percent success rate with your company? I said, well, I'm not going to speak for the

00:37:12.540 president, but I can tell you that I do not have a hundred percent success rate. And this is what

00:37:17.200 the president of the company had been saying. And the guy that was asking me had a medal of honor

00:37:21.120 around his neck. And I just said, there's absolutely no way that I'm going to lie to a guy

00:37:27.620 with a medal of honor. I'm just, just not going to happen. Not even to keep my job. It's just not

00:37:33.100 going to happen. So that was one of the easiest points in my life that I can look back on and say

00:37:39.020 that turned a lot of things around. It was just absolute flat refusal to tell a lie, even for

00:37:44.760 self-preservation. And so that changed a lot of your perspective moving forward in with being an

00:37:49.840 integrity with yourself. It did. And that's exactly integrity. That's exactly why, because

00:37:54.560 as soon as I realized that integrity meant that much to me, then I started to examine what integrity

00:37:59.560 really means. And I realized that it meant a whole hell of a lot more than just not lying in the moment.

00:38:05.840 It also means living the way that you say you're living. So every time I get on a stage and I'm saying,

00:38:11.560 these are the things that I've done that have helped me out, if I'm not still doing them, then I'm lying

00:38:17.300 to the people in the audience. And so that was another example or another thing that I had to put on

00:38:24.240 there. And then one thing I've seen you mention that we're in total agreement on is you have to do what

00:38:30.100 you say you're going to do. That's a facet of integrity. And so it sort of snowballed into if I say

00:38:36.160 I'm going to do something, then I have to do it. And all of those little, it was like through the

00:38:40.940 examining of the word integrity and deciding that integrity was this big, this very big part of

00:38:47.360 life, not just this one little thing. That's what really made me start to get, get stuff together.

00:38:54.320 So what were some of the negative ways that you, that you coped with, with this event and these

00:38:59.460 experiences? I drank a lot. You come from, you know, a Western cowboy backgrounds, like people drink a

00:39:07.000 lot of whiskey and chew Copenhagen and that kind of stuff. So I was doing all that. And then I was

00:39:13.740 on these pain pills, just like anyone would be in my situation. I was on OxyContin and Walter Reed was

00:39:20.920 known for putting people on a very high dosage of OxyContin. And I was on an extremely high dosage

00:39:28.540 and I started to abuse those pain pills. I even went so far as to, uh, I had a, uh, guy knew from

00:39:37.240 back before I was in the army, came over to my house and, uh, he was like showing me how to grind

00:39:43.980 them up and, you know, snort them or put them in a glass of coffee or whiskey or just whatever.

00:39:50.360 That's how to grind them up and stuff. So, you know, I wasn't like just giving them away or anything

00:39:55.500 crazy like that, but I was abusing them myself. You know, um, I wasn't, I didn't like turn into

00:40:01.440 some drug dealer, thank God, but I was, uh, abusing them on my own and in all sorts of ways,

00:40:07.600 snorting them and everything else. I mean, I didn't inject them, but it was pretty much as far as you

00:40:12.220 could go without doing that as a 19 year old guy or a 20 year old team leader in Iraq. I just could

00:40:19.100 have never imagined becoming that guy. And I, I did, I slipped clear into that. And it was mostly

00:40:25.040 because of demons. I was dealing with what Jordan Peterson describes as dragons and I hadn't

00:40:31.180 confronted them and I was being consumed by them because of it. How do you begin to change that

00:40:36.060 around? I mean, I, I can't even imagine what that addiction must feel like and you become dependent

00:40:41.820 on that. And that's the way that you operate. Like that is your new reality. How do you then

00:40:46.180 transform into something entirely different? It has to be a choice. And I, I know a lot of 12 step

00:40:53.740 people will say that and I don't mean to insult anybody who's gone through 12 steps, but I don't

00:40:57.840 care too much about their opinion because they have like an 8% success rate or something. So I

00:41:03.460 don't want anybody to confuse me with a 12 stepper, but they're right that, um, it has to be a choice

00:41:09.840 that you've made. You, you have to decide that I just don't want to do that anymore. And it's not

00:41:14.620 that easy to make that decision. But once you've made that decision and really truly made it,

00:41:19.460 then it's not hard to get off of drugs. It's really not every people, my opinion, make more

00:41:25.160 of it than they should. Cause it's, if you really don't want to do it, that's not hard to not abuse

00:41:31.120 a drug. You just don't abuse it. It's a simple, maybe it's not super easy, I guess, but it's very

00:41:37.760 simple. And for me, it was like realizing that I had this and I had made this commitment to myself

00:41:47.200 and to Sergeant Dan and Colonel Mack and others that I was going to live for them because I felt

00:41:53.700 like they had their lives taken away. And I had made this commitment clear back in while I was in

00:41:59.420 Walter Reed and I just had failed at it. Um, and so it was like a renewing that vow made it very easy

00:42:06.820 for me to quit because I realized that people say that you should live life to its fullest or whatever.

00:42:14.160 And I think they're the most famous one is, um, you should live as if this each day is your last

00:42:20.140 day. Right. And someone in my situation understands that very clearly, but that can't be taken as,

00:42:26.920 and it is sometimes taken as, uh, that you should just live this life of pleasure and debauchery,

00:42:34.020 you know, it's nothing but bliss with like intermittent moments of like a little bit of happiness,

00:42:39.120 you know, and that's just the wrong way to live. Kind of like that ain't drink and be married for 1.00

00:42:44.280 tomorrow we die type thing. Right. That's exactly right. And you don't want it. And that's the only

00:42:49.380 time that's good advice is if you're about to go to war the next day. Um, if you're living a real

00:42:54.940 life, then it's not, that's just not good advice. So it was realizing that that commitment to live

00:43:01.880 for my brothers who couldn't live anymore meant a hell of a lot more than just go to Vegas every time

00:43:08.440 someone asks you or, or, you know, fly to Florida or whatever I had in these cockamamie ideas in my

00:43:14.600 head. It meant to be a man, a real man and do what's right and live with honor and integrity.

00:43:23.200 That's what it means. And so as soon as I realized that it became much, much easier for me to just get

00:43:30.820 away from all of that because it's just not the honorable thing to do. What did your support group,

00:43:35.700 the people around you, your friends, your colleagues, your, your, your family, what role

00:43:39.240 did they play in your transformation? Um, I was in not so good of a marriage at the time and it's

00:43:45.840 not any fault of hers or anything. That's not what I'm saying. Uh, we're two kids who were just not

00:43:51.300 doing a good job managing a relationship. So that wasn't helping. And then that is not me blaming her.

00:43:57.340 I don't want that to be misconstrued. It's not. Yeah. I understand. Okay. And then my mother,

00:44:02.200 I was living in the same town as my mom. She, you know, I just, I hid everything from her.

00:44:08.540 I didn't want her to know anything like that. So I just hid everything from her. So she wasn't

00:44:12.560 able to do a whole hell of a lot. And my friends that I was hanging out with, most of them were just

00:44:18.260 not very good influences. So I didn't have a lot of support, but that wasn't because people didn't

00:44:24.020 want to support me. If that makes sense. Sure. I had removed myself from the people that could have

00:44:29.220 helped. So I didn't have a ton, but that was my fault and not, not theirs. You seem to get,

00:44:35.140 if I can say a little bit emotional more so than, and I think this conversation, when we talk about

00:44:40.280 your mom, what does that relationship look like now? My mom and I do great. My dad and her separated

00:44:47.560 when I was one years old and, um, he had a bunch of, uh, let's just leave it at that. And so he wasn't

00:44:54.840 really in my life growing up. And when I was real young, a baby, my mom was working and going to

00:45:01.700 school at night and we were extremely, extremely poor and she wouldn't take any welfare. So my

00:45:08.300 grandma, who didn't have a ton of money either would go to the government food lines and get cheese 1.00

00:45:15.420 and stuff like that for us and bring it to our house so that we could eat. And now my mom has

00:45:20.640 worked her way up from, from that to being a very successful business woman. And she took great

00:45:26.780 care of us kids. And I just have a lot of not just love and respect for my mom, but admiration

00:45:33.860 because I've seen what she's done with her life. You know, we went from eating hot dogs to lobster,

00:45:40.440 so to speak, you know, and that was all because of her. And so I really, really look up to my mom

00:45:46.360 and I guess I probably do get a little bit emotional because of that.

00:45:51.880 How many siblings do you have?

00:45:53.640 I have, she's four sisters and a brother.

00:45:57.620 Yeah. So she raised all of you guys?

00:45:59.540 All but one. The one sister was from my father's second marriage.

00:46:03.300 Yeah. Yeah. She's man. That's tough. Yeah. I can definitely see where you're coming from and I can

00:46:07.880 hear it in your voice. And so it's really cool to hear that you've been able to continue to build

00:46:12.060 that relationship. I really admire that about you. Hey, let's, let's talk about PTSD for a minute.

00:46:16.880 All right. Because I know everybody talks about it. I know it's, it's a big topic and a big term,

00:46:21.260 but from somebody who's in this thing, like what's your perspective of PTSD? How do we address this

00:46:28.960 if we need to address it? I mean, I just want to get your thoughts and ideas about it.

00:46:33.340 Yeah. I was on another podcast and I answered this question in a way that I wish I wouldn't have

00:46:38.140 because I was just not having the best day. So I'm glad I'm going to get a chance to fix that. But

00:46:42.500 I think that we have some real serious systemic issues with the way that we view PTSD. And the reason

00:46:51.020 for that is the discussion is being driven by well-meaning, but ideological clinicians and people who

00:46:59.220 don't have it. I'll give you a story. I, I was in a VA sort of, I forget what they called it,

00:47:07.380 but anyway, several people in a room talking about their problems, you know, PTSD problems.

00:47:12.160 I forget what they called that, but we all sat there while this one guy told a story about hitting

00:47:17.260 an IED and how it had messed him up and, uh, all of this. And that, and I'm not diminishing hitting

00:47:21.580 an IED because it ain't good. I mean, most of the guys you see with amputations hit IEDs. So it's not,

00:47:27.160 I'm not diminishing that. It's just, I'm sitting here listening to a story about hitting an IED

00:47:31.800 and thinking, Oh my hell, let's get, get on with it. And that's part of my own PTSD,

00:47:36.960 right? Well, then it gets over. Mostly I'm thinking if I'm being honest, that the guy's

00:47:40.900 not telling the truth. Okay. So I've got like my bullshit detectors going crazy. When we get done,

00:47:46.380 I can't remember if it was me or somebody else asked him where he hit the IED and he said, Kuwait.

00:47:51.440 And so, yeah, instantly everyone in the room goes cold because they know that this guy's lying.

00:47:59.620 And so that was, I think there's way too much of that kind of stuff going on. And too many people

00:48:06.360 are getting benefits because they're telling stories like that, that are just hooey, you know?

00:48:12.380 Now that's not to say that if you're broken up from PTSD and you haven't gotten control of it or

00:48:17.720 whatever, that you don't need help and you shouldn't get benefits while you're getting

00:48:20.880 help and all that. That's, I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is too many people are lying

00:48:24.680 and getting it and that's driving the discussion. So I think we just don't even look at PTSD the

00:48:31.240 right way because we either see it as like the cousin Eddie thing from the vacation movies, you

00:48:37.580 know? Right. Yeah. The metal plate in the head and all that. Yeah, exactly. You're either that guy

00:48:43.900 or you're just like this rabid, angry, you know, going to freak out at every stoplight and murder 0.99

00:48:52.080 somebody type of a person. It doesn't seem like anyone realizes that there's kind of an in-between

00:48:57.700 there that, you know, that maybe you can have, it can be a bigger struggle for you than maybe for

00:49:03.380 others to control anger or whatever, but you still control it. And just because you don't sleep very

00:49:09.100 well might not mean that you're going to snap and do something crazy at work or some kind of a thing

00:49:16.160 like this. And it seems to be, we're viewed as either broken and sort of, uh, belong on somewhere

00:49:23.880 on disability hierarchy or where people who are going to freak out and are to be feared. And I just

00:49:30.120 don't, I don't think the truth is either one of those extremes, except for in the most extreme

00:49:33.960 cases. Right. How do you view yourself then? I think that I'm working through a lot of things,

00:49:39.860 but I'm doing, and I, and I'll be working through a lot of things forever, but I'm doing a hell of a

00:49:44.940 lot better than anybody would have thought that I would do. So I feel like I'm on the road to

00:49:50.860 success. You know, like Buddha said something like there's only two mistakes you can make on the road

00:49:55.180 to truth, not starting and quitting early or something like that. I think that I'm on that

00:50:00.680 road somewhere and I haven't quit yet. So I would say that's as positive as a guy can be in that sort

00:50:07.120 of situation. How do you respond and how does it affect you when somebody says you're not going to be

00:50:12.480 able to walk again, or you're not going to be able to use your hand again. And all of the things that

00:50:16.260 I'm sure you've heard over and over and over again, and yet defy those odds.

00:50:20.860 I was crushed, honestly, especially with the not being able to walk thing. I mean, just like you'd

00:50:26.960 expect, I spent a little time kind of wallowing in my own self-pity and that sort of stuff. But after I

00:50:34.040 realized that that was a physical thing and I had been hurt before and all of that kind of stuff. And

00:50:39.960 I took a walk through Arlington. I went to Arlington. I snuck out of the hospital with the help of a

00:50:46.720 friend and we went to Arlington. You literally snuck out?

00:50:49.420 We literally snuck out, yeah. I mean, it wasn't like, you know, it wasn't like some James Bond

00:50:53.960 stuff. We walked out the door, but we weren't supposed to. You weren't, yeah, right.

00:50:58.240 We went to Arlington. I got to Arlington and I, and you know, there's these signs all over the place

00:51:03.960 that say silence and respect. And these are how old grounds and things like this, you know,

00:51:09.180 it was just really compelled. And then I don't, have you ever been to Arlington?

00:51:13.940 I never have. No, I'd love to go, but I never have.

00:51:16.480 Oh, okay. And there's a thing called McClellan's gate and it's got a poem on it on, on the east and

00:51:21.960 west side. So it's kind of broken in two. And on, I think it's Western face, it says like on these

00:51:29.060 eternal camping grounds, their silent tents are spread for glory guards with solemn round the

00:51:34.160 bivouac of the dead rest on embalmed and saying, the dead deers of blood you gave no impious

00:51:39.720 footsteps here shall tread upon the herbage of your grave. It's something real close to that. And

00:51:45.320 powerful. That's how I felt. So I just decided that I wanted to walk and I hadn't walked yet.

00:51:52.640 I had taken like one step. Were you in a wheelchair going through? I was. Okay. All right.

00:51:57.440 Yep. And I had two canes on there that they'd given me, you know, to help get me into the

00:52:03.300 bathroom, but they weren't like for walking. They were like, had four prongs on the bottom of them.

00:52:08.520 You've seen those kinds of things with tennis balls, right? No, I'm just kidding.

00:52:12.480 I was, I did have a walker. Yeah. That was later, but I just kind of got up and I felt like,

00:52:21.780 I don't, I don't know why, but I just felt like walking was the only respectful thing to do.

00:52:29.000 And I haven't gotten to the bottom of a whole, maybe it was like me saying, I'm, you know,

00:52:35.160 because I respect you all so much, I'm willing to endure this pain or something. I don't know

00:52:39.600 exactly why I was so compelled to walk, but I got up and walked all the way to Sergeant

00:52:44.240 Cairn's grave. And it was like a mile, something like that. But, you know,

00:52:48.620 and that was the first time you'd walked in, what'd you say, like months, right?

00:52:52.080 Months. Yeah. And I was swollen and, you know, bleeding and stuff. And I got there and collapsed

00:52:59.520 at his graveside. I felt in some sense, like I was some ignorant wretch to have been complaining 0.98

00:53:07.900 about my problems when anybody barely buried in Arlington would gladly trade theirs for mine. 0.87

00:53:15.640 So to speak, you know, um, probably not a soul there wouldn't trade me places. So, uh, that was

00:53:22.740 the first major, major, uh, turnaround on the physical side of things. I realized that I just,

00:53:28.960 there's no way that I could feel like I was a man, a real man and, and allow myself to stay in this

00:53:35.200 wheelchair. It just felt like it would be disrespectful to them for some reason that I

00:53:40.540 honestly still don't understand. That's amazing. So outside of some of the medical conditions that

00:53:47.460 you already talked about, are there still some physical conditions that you are dealing with now

00:53:53.300 that you will continue to deal with the rest of your life even potentially?

00:53:56.940 Yeah. I've got some bulging discs in my back now that are kind of new. And then the tendons are

00:54:02.860 messed up in both of my knees and I don't have any cartilage in my left knee, but really, and then I,

00:54:09.460 my IT bands are split up both sides and those give me a lot of problems. And then I've got rods in

00:54:15.360 my femurs. My femurs are way busted up. I mean, they're way busted up. So those cause problems.

00:54:21.240 Those rods will stay there indefinitely.

00:54:23.300 They will. Yep. And then my hand, you know, that's kind of a work in progress,

00:54:27.940 learning how to use that thing again. But I still, I still run and I'm working on now that we

00:54:34.700 know I'm not going to die of a heart attack. I'm working on getting into this.

00:54:37.460 That's a good step, right? It is. Yeah. Pretty happy with it. Um, I'm going to be

00:54:42.880 running an ultra marathon and I actually ran a dualathlon last year and I almost won it. So

00:54:50.360 is that bike and run? What is that? Yeah, that was a bike and run.

00:54:53.880 And you almost won it. Yeah. In fact, I was in the lead by 10 seconds and now it's my fault because

00:55:00.100 I should have went through the track before I started running it, but I didn't know anything

00:55:03.120 about doathlons is my first one, but the guy was just getting into position. The guy who tells you

00:55:09.240 where to go left and right when you're at the end of the race, there was like a mile left and he was

00:55:14.420 just getting into position and he told me to go right and I was supposed to go left. So I went right

00:55:19.540 and I ended up at a taco bell in downtown St. George. He sent me the wrong way.

00:55:25.780 I love that you said right there, I'll let you finish, but I got to interject here because I love

00:55:29.500 that you said it was my fault for not knowing the course ahead of time. Cause I think it'd be

00:55:34.040 really easy to say, Oh, that son of a gun, you know, like it's his fault. I could have won.

00:55:38.380 And yet you took ownership right there in the first sentence, which I appreciate for sure.

00:55:43.120 Oh yeah. And thank you. That, that was definitely me being dumb and him, you know, he's a kid that's

00:55:48.620 there for probably minimum wage or something. If that, or he gets a free race or something. 0.97

00:55:53.080 Yeah, exactly. So it was definitely my fault, but the people who run the race were very cool about it.

00:55:57.740 They, um, you know, because every time you pass a check station, they record your time.

00:56:02.140 And so they were very cool about it. They were like, we'll just give you second place. We can't

00:56:05.840 give you first. And I was like, I don't want a fake ass second place, man. Thank you though. 0.98

00:56:09.780 You know, but, um, then they offered to pay for my next race, which was cool. So that's cool.

00:56:15.320 Yeah. So what does, what does life look like for you now? I mean, what do you do for work?

00:56:19.440 I know you're active. I know you hunt, I'm sure. Cause you grew up probably in the rodeo. I imagine,

00:56:25.180 I don't know. I'd imagine that's the case. Are you still doing that stuff?

00:56:28.440 No, I can't ride bulls no more. That's how, especially with those rods. I, from what I

00:56:32.440 understand, if the leg gets busted with the rod in there, there's a higher risk of infection.

00:56:36.660 And then if the rod gets bent, then you're kind of screwed. Like they might have to amputate.

00:56:41.640 Yeah. So that's not good. So bull riding's out, but I still work as a speaker and a author and then

00:56:50.200 a writer. And I work as a guide in the fall. I guide hunters in Idaho. So.

00:56:55.560 Man, it's a, it's incredible all the things. Cause I, I watch, I follow you and I'm inspired

00:56:59.460 by you. It's pretty incredible to see. I mean, if you didn't know what you've gone through,

00:57:03.360 you wouldn't have any idea all that you've been through over the past, well, longer than a decade

00:57:09.080 now. Thanks, man. That's, I think the highest praise that I could get. If someone doesn't

00:57:14.840 notice, I think that's probably the highest, highest praise that I could get.

00:57:19.200 Well, Braxton, we're bumping up against time, man. I think this is probably the longest interview

00:57:23.160 on the podcast that I've done in over a hundred and I don't know, 60 episodes or so now, but

00:57:28.080 worth every minute, man. I wanted to make sure we got into this story because I know you,

00:57:33.100 I know what you've been through. I saw it firsthand. I'm inspired by what you're doing,

00:57:37.640 man. Like it's, it's pretty incredible. The odds that you overcame and the things that you've done.

00:57:42.760 And I'm just, I'm glad to know you. I'm glad to call you a friend for sure.

00:57:46.240 Thanks, my friend. I really, really appreciate that. Thank you.

00:57:49.840 Well, as we wind down, I want to give the guys that are listening an opportunity to connect with

00:57:53.320 you. The book, The Glass Factory is an amazing read. It's raw. You don't pull any punches. You

00:57:58.140 certainly didn't in this conversation and you didn't in the book. I remember I started reading this

00:58:02.360 when my wife and I took the family to Hawaii and they were like trying to break me away to go play.

00:58:06.820 I'm like, hold on, hold on. I get to get through this chapter. And so it's a really well-written

00:58:10.680 book, but it's really compelling because it's, it's raw, man. It's a, so how do the guys pick up

00:58:16.140 the book? How do they learn more about what you're doing and connect with you? And I know you've got

00:58:19.360 some other books coming out here in the near future as well. I do. Yeah. Thank you, bro.

00:58:24.100 The easiest way or the best way to get the book for me is to go to my website, www.braxtonmccoy.com

00:58:30.520 slash the glass factory. And that's just because I make more money if you go there.

00:58:34.500 And that's the only place to get a hardcover right now. And all of those will be autographed

00:58:39.720 or you can buy it on Amazon, which is fine too. But those are all soft covers for now on Amazon.

00:58:45.460 Right on. We'll, we'll make sure we link up your site so we can go there, but keep going. Sorry.

00:58:48.900 Oh, no problem. Thanks bro. Uh, yeah. And then I, I will have a couple more books coming out here

00:58:53.200 pretty soon. So hopefully next year that's, I mean, you know how publishing goes, so it's very tough.

00:58:59.060 I do know how it goes. Absolutely. Well, good. Well, I'm excited for those to come out. Let me

00:59:03.980 ask you this question. I think we kind of tiptoed around it a little bit, but I want to ask you very

00:59:07.560 clearly, what does it mean to be a man? To live a life of integrity and honor, to not just be the

00:59:15.380 guy that your family looks up to, but to be the guy that other people's families look up to,

00:59:21.060 to constantly reach for the ideal. I would say that's what it means to be a man.

00:59:25.800 Powerful man. And you know, what's cool about that is that's what I see you doing. And so it's

00:59:30.460 always good when I see a guy's life that matches up with his words. I mean, we talked about that and

00:59:35.140 being an integrity. So you're definitely living that. So appreciate you, man. Well, Hey, look,

00:59:39.040 as we wind down, as we wrap things up, I want you to know, I appreciate you. I want you to know,

00:59:42.360 I appreciate your sacrifice to this country and all that you've gone through. I appreciate it.

00:59:48.120 Frankly, I just don't have the words that would adequately express my gratitude for,

00:59:51.960 for what you've done and who you've become. So I want to let you know, I appreciate you,

00:59:54.920 brother. Thanks for being on the show today. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me, Ryan.

01:00:00.180 There it is. Gentlemen, my conversation with my friend Braxton McCoy,

01:00:03.440 this was different for me. You know, I've done a lot of interviews. I've done over

01:00:06.980 160 interviews now, but this one was special to me. And I know if you made it this far,

01:00:13.000 that it is probably special to you as well. It's pretty incredible when you have somebody who's

01:00:16.680 willing to come on the show and talk about an experience like this, because it gives us a new

01:00:22.260 framework and a new reference for the way that we look at our lives and how we operate as, as men.

01:00:27.640 So guys reach out to Braxton, buy the book, the glass factory. You will not be disappointed.

01:00:32.220 There was so much that I learned about him and his story, even though he's a friend of mine and we

01:00:36.640 served together that I frankly just had no idea about. It's a great read. It's an inspiring story.

01:00:42.240 And in many ways, maybe not to the extent, but it does parallel our own lives and our own challenges

01:00:47.780 that we have to deal with as men on a daily basis. And he walks through how he's overcome a lot of

01:00:53.260 these hardships and obstacles and still fighting with some of that, frankly. So again, reach out to

01:00:57.680 him on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. You can reach me there as well. Let us know what you thought about

01:01:02.280 the show. Let him know what you think about him just in hearing his story. I know he loves to hear

01:01:06.640 from you guys. And I certainly do as well. Again, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, wherever you're at.

01:01:11.840 In the meantime, guys, you might want to check out again, our exclusive brotherhood, the iron

01:01:16.180 council. This is 380 other men who are banding together, working together, struggling together,

01:01:22.060 succeeding together in different ways across different facets of their lives. And I've always

01:01:26.700 found that working with other motivated, ambitious, dedicated men has served me very, very well.

01:01:32.260 Head to order of man.com slash iron council. Guys, I'm going to sign out for the day on that

01:01:37.860 note. I appreciate you as always being on this journey with me when it comes to reclaiming

01:01:42.940 masculinity. I get so much positive feedback. I also get some negative feedback, but it's a

01:01:47.920 testament to the power of the message that we're sharing here. So if you would, as I sign out,

01:01:52.640 please share this show, share the message, share what we're doing here. And let's, let's span the globe

01:01:57.560 with this movement, order of man guys until Friday, take action and become the man you are

01:02:02.340 meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your

01:02:08.240 life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - May 01, 2018

163： The True Cost of Liberty ｜ Braxton McCoy

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