Order of Man - 166： Why Men Should Compete ｜ Jake Thompson

00:00:00.000 Competition is such a critical component of our journey to develop masculinity and manliness.

00:00:05.520 It's too bad that it's often viewed as unnecessary and even an antiquated way of

00:00:10.640 operating by much of society. Heaven forbid we hold ourselves to a high standard and teach our

00:00:16.220 children to keep score. My guest today, Jake Thompson, founder of Compete Every Day, makes

00:00:22.020 the case for utilizing healthy competition as a critical factor in improving our lives.

00:00:27.180 Today, we talk about why competition is so important, why executing to failure is so

00:00:33.080 powerful, why losing does not necessarily equal loser, and why men should compete every day.

00:00:40.020 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart

00:00:44.880 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not

00:00:50.760 easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are.

00:00:57.940 This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call

00:01:03.240 yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and

00:01:09.060 founder of this movement and this podcast, The Order of Man. This is a show, obviously, if you don't

00:01:14.560 know by now, about being a better man. So we are interviewing the world's most successful men,

00:01:18.680 New York Times bestselling authors, entrepreneurs, athletes, warriors, scholars. If they've got an

00:01:24.400 interesting message to share and they're succeeding and helping other people succeed, my job is to

00:01:28.940 bring them on the podcast, ask them powerful questions, get powerful answers, distill that

00:01:33.860 down so you and me and everybody else can learn a little bit more about what it takes to succeed

00:01:38.560 as fathers, husbands, business owners, community leaders, wherever it is you are trying to step up

00:01:43.740 in your life as a man. I've got a great one on competition today. I think there's a negative

00:01:50.120 connotation around the word competition, and I think more and more people are dismissing this

00:01:54.340 idea of competition, but I've got some interesting conversations coming up with Jake today. We'll get

00:02:00.000 to that in a minute, but before I do that, I do want to make sure that I thank you right off the bat.

00:02:05.500 I want to thank you for the reviews in our Facebook group. And by the way, guys, if you aren't in that

00:02:10.280 Facebook group, you can head to facebook.com slash groups slash order of man, we've got 45,000 guys

00:02:16.400 over there, but in the Facebook group, I asked for ratings and reviews on the podcast. You guys

00:02:22.080 came through in such a big way. And I want to tell you, I appreciate you taking a couple of minutes

00:02:26.220 out of your day to leave a review. If you haven't done that already, very simply, I ask that you do

00:02:31.500 this. You get this podcast for free. There's nothing that I ask you to do, trying to add value to your

00:02:36.900 lives. If you would return a favor by leaving a review and a rating, let us know what you think

00:02:41.220 about the show. And of course, the biggest thing for that is it just helps us get the message out.

00:02:45.540 And I think the more men who hear this message, the more we learn about being better men,

00:02:50.100 the better off that our families are going to be our businesses, our communities, every aspect of life.

00:02:54.460 So please again, make sure that you write us an iTunes rating and review. It goes such a long way.

00:02:59.080 I read every one of those and all of them are appreciated. The other thing I wanted to make mention of

00:03:04.760 is our show sponsor, but more than just being a show sponsor, these guys are friends of mine.

00:03:09.500 We have conversations, we text back and forth, we give each other a hard time. And I was thinking

00:03:13.980 about this. I am 37 years old. I had to think about that one for a minute, the older that I get,

00:03:20.940 and I'm not considering myself old, but I have noticed that my joints are getting a little bit

00:03:26.600 sore after my workouts that I'm recovering a little bit slower than I used to, especially as I ramp up

00:03:33.200 my workout regimen with CrossFit and starting strength and the other things that I'm doing.

00:03:37.820 And I've noticed a big, big improvement in my life through some supplements that I use through

00:03:42.540 origin main. I use Jocko's joint warfare, the super krill and the pre-workout discipline.

00:03:49.420 So if you guys are looking for some supplements, and again, these are supplements, all right,

00:03:54.240 this is supposed to supplement a healthy diet and a healthy workout regimen. Of course,

00:03:59.820 if you are looking for a supplement, I highly, highly encourage that you go check out what

00:04:04.780 origin main is doing with, with Jocko, with their supplemental line. Again, it's the joint

00:04:09.320 warfare. It's the super krill and the discipline. Of course, they've got a lot more over there.

00:04:14.040 Go check it out. Origin main.com slash order of man origin main.com slash order of man.

00:04:20.160 And then make sure that you use the code order or D E R at checkout. If you use that,

00:04:25.500 you're going to get a discount on your order. So if you're looking for a supplemental line,

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00:04:39.400 That's enough. That's all I've got by way of announcements today. I had mentioned that I've

00:04:43.920 got Jake Thompson on the show. I met Jake last year at an American dream. You event in Fort Sill,

00:04:51.220 Oklahoma. That's actually where I went to basic training. And I had the privilege of hearing this

00:04:55.160 guy speak about the power and importance of competition. And I knew that I wanted to have

00:05:01.260 a deeper discussion with him about this concept, because this is something that I think a lot of

00:05:05.740 society bucks, this idea of competition, that word again, it seems to have this negative connotation

00:05:12.580 around it. But I think that, you know, as well as I do, how powerful competition can actually be

00:05:18.620 in a world that likes to take it easy and even shy away from keeping score. Jake is somebody who is

00:05:25.540 encouraging more people to do it through his organization, compete every day. And also as a

00:05:31.200 speaker, an author and a coach. So guys sit back, if you can take notes, this is going to be a powerful,

00:05:37.780 powerful conversation, something that you can incorporate into your lives, something that you

00:05:42.140 can incorporate into the lives of your children and those you have a responsibility for. And I think

00:05:46.320 we're going to be all better off when we learn to harness the power of competition.

00:05:52.460 Jake, what's going on, man? Glad that you are on the show today.

00:05:55.320 Man, me too, Ryan. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

00:05:57.920 Yeah, you bet. It's been a long time in the works. We actually, we were at Fort Sill together

00:06:01.380 for American Dream U. I actually had Phil on the show about a month or so ago. And so I'm excited for

00:06:06.380 this as well, because I was really blown away with your presentation and what you had to share with

00:06:10.400 the soldiers that we met there and your story. So I think this is going to be a great

00:06:13.440 conversation, man. Thanks. I'm excited. Likewise, I've been following your stuff for a while. So it

00:06:19.280 was a great opportunity to get connected in person. Yeah, definitely. And you know, I think even with

00:06:23.860 what you guys are doing, I think it's so, so important in society today. And for those guys

00:06:28.340 who don't know, you are the founder of Compete Every Day, which we'll talk a little bit more about,

00:06:32.300 but I just want to extract that word compete because I think society in general, and I think this is

00:06:37.560 probably a relatively new trend because when I was in school and I imagine you were much the same way

00:06:42.040 is competition was important, especially for boys, especially with sports, because we learned so

00:06:47.800 much about life through competition. But I think anymore, the trend seems to be going away from

00:06:52.560 let's not compete. Let's not keep score. That's mean, or it'll hurt people's feelings. So I'd really

00:06:57.460 love to hear your perspective on this word and this idea of competing. I hate participation trophies.

00:07:03.680 So I'll kind of kick off with that. You know, I love the fact with competition because like you said,

00:07:08.700 in sports, it teaches us a lot about life. But more importantly, I think what it does is it

00:07:13.980 creates opportunities for us to get outside of our comfort zone and really reveal what we're capable

00:07:20.580 of. And really, you know, when you're in a competitive setting, you're forced out of that

00:07:25.760 comfort that most times people cling to. And a lot of times you would never push a limit, whether

00:07:31.000 it's physical, whether you're fitness, you're training, you're training for a sport, you're working

00:07:34.860 out in the gym, you're running, or in kind of a life sense where you're put in a competitive setting,

00:07:40.260 you have to dial it up a notch. And for a lot of people, they would never go to that level to that

00:07:46.020 place unless pushed. And so that's really what I love most about it. And looking throughout history,

00:07:51.900 I think that's the biggest advantage of competition is because it allows us the opportunity to reveal

00:07:56.900 what we're truly capable of instead of what we think we're capable of.

00:08:01.460 I mean, it's a great metric, right? Because if you go into a game or you go into a business scenario

00:08:05.600 or whatever that may be, and you fall short, that's not fun, right? Nobody, nobody wants to lose.

00:08:11.640 But the reality is, it's a great metric for you to determine, am I good enough? And you might fall

00:08:16.700 short and realize you're not well good, go back to the drawing board and get better.

00:08:20.720 Yeah. And it's the people that go back to that drawing board and understand because you have those that

00:08:25.820 will throw a fit and the wine and the complain, they've been cheated, life cheated on life,

00:08:30.720 you know, and then you'll have those that look at the competition. They didn't end up where they

00:08:34.540 wanted to be. So they're like, cool, how can I get better? How can I improve myself so that I am

00:08:39.480 ready and capable to take that on and when, and those are the people that are sharpened by it and

00:08:45.040 continue to excel in all areas of life. Do you think there's a trend to compete less than there

00:08:51.220 used to be? How old are you, by the way? 34. I'm turning 37 here in the next couple of weeks.

00:08:56.240 And, you know, 20 years ago when I was in high school, that was not a problem at all. And I look

00:09:01.720 at now and from my perspective, it seems to be a problem. Do you agree? Disagree?

00:09:05.760 I hugely agree. I think you see a lot of it. I mean, it's in the media a lot about

00:09:10.460 competitions bad for youth sports and, you know, everybody needs to win and everybody gets a

00:09:15.160 trophy. And I think that sends the wrong message because when those kids are older, they're entitled

00:09:19.540 that they deserve a trophy because they've been given one all their life, regardless of how good or

00:09:24.100 bad they've done. And losing isn't necessarily a bad thing. I mean, you know this as an entrepreneur

00:09:29.380 and a businessman, like failure is part of that process. And unless you figure something out by

00:09:35.000 doing it incorrectly, a lot of times we don't learn. And so without competition, you're not

00:09:39.700 ever presented an opportunity to fail, which then never forces you to be better. And you become content

00:09:45.820 with the status quo. And I think today's society really pushes that over and over again versus this

00:09:52.440 idea of being better than you were and putting yourself out of your comfort zone, forcing

00:09:57.300 yourself to level up because the world society and all of us as a whole need more leaders and

00:10:03.600 specifically to show more men that will step up and improve on who they were because their families,

00:10:09.460 their friends, their relationships, their communities need that.

00:10:12.820 Why do you think society pushes so hard against this? Because again, I think we're in agreement

00:10:16.600 and I don't know. I don't know if it's a sensitivity thing or we want to make everybody feel warm

00:10:20.800 and fuzzy and special. And so we extract this.

00:10:24.480 I think we want to make everybody feel warm and fuzzy. I think people look down on the idea of

00:10:29.440 failure and losing as that it's a complete negative. They see those opportunities of

00:10:34.880 losing equates to a loser. Failing at something equates to a failure, which is never the case.

00:10:41.460 Just because you lost a game, you missed a shot, doesn't make you a loser.

00:10:45.420 It just means it didn't work out that time. How you respond to that loss, to that failure is really

00:10:51.660 what determines more of that characteristic. I mean, the famous Jordan quote about, you know,

00:10:57.260 he's missed thousands of shots in his career at the end of games, during games, but he still,

00:11:02.880 the game was on the line, the greatest of all time, still is like, give me the ball,

00:11:05.920 I'm going to take the shot because he saw it as just an opportunity.

00:11:10.020 I think that's a really good perspective. He saw it as an opportunity. And I think in a way,

00:11:13.600 he and other people who are successful have redefined what failure is. Failure is not

00:11:18.000 coming up short on something you try. The way that I look at it is failure is not even trying.

00:11:22.820 So I think the greater risk is sitting back, doing nothing, letting life pass you by,

00:11:27.640 not acting on that business idea, not asking that woman out. Most people will do that because 0.99

00:11:32.000 they're afraid of rejection. But I think the failure is, is not doing that stuff rather than

00:11:36.200 doing it and being rejected or falling short. Oh, a thousand percent. You know, the author's

00:11:41.940 escaping me now, but she worked in hospice and she talked about working with these people at the

00:11:46.840 end of their lives and having these deep conversations. And the one theme that she saw

00:11:51.160 is the regrets of the dying. The number one regret was these people got to the end of their life and

00:11:56.120 they still had something left in the tank because they let all these opportunities pass them by.

00:12:00.720 They stayed within their comfort zone. They lived the life that everyone else told them to. And then

00:12:04.940 they get to the end of their life. Physically, they're exhausted, but emotionally,

00:12:09.200 spiritually, there's still so much left in them and they never got to fulfill it. And it's the idea

00:12:13.920 that baseball I love is a prime example. We were talking about that baseball hat before we got

00:12:18.080 online. You can stand at the plate, put a bat on your shoulder, scared to death that you're going to

00:12:24.740 strike out if you swing that bat. And so you sit there and you watch. Sure enough, three strikes go

00:12:29.620 whizzing right by you. That bat never leaves your shoulder. Now, the same thing could happen. You could

00:12:34.060 still strike out if you swing that bat, but all of a sudden you have a chance to put the ball in play

00:12:38.680 to get a hit, to get a home run that you would never have. If that bat set on your shoulder the

00:12:43.980 entire time, the cardinal sin of batting is striking out looking right. I mean, it's, you've got your K

00:12:50.000 your strikeout, then you've got your backwards K and nobody wants that because they know they 1.00

00:12:54.940 understand. Like you didn't even try, you didn't even give yourself a chance. You just stood there

00:12:59.020 and watched everything. I'd much rather strike out swinging than looking. Yeah. I mean, cause you look at,

00:13:03.620 it's funny. You look at baseball and baseball is so funny. Guys will just like slap at it with the

00:13:09.240 bat. And you're thinking, okay, that was dumb. There's no way anything's going to happen. 1.00

00:13:13.420 Catcher misplays the ball, throws it over the first baseman's head. The pitcher bobbles it like

00:13:17.220 anything happens once that ball is in play. And it's the same thing in life. You just got to swing

00:13:22.540 to put the ball in play and then anything can happen. Did, so did you play baseball in high school

00:13:27.100 or at the college level? No, I played it as a kid was pretty good as a kid till I took a couple of

00:13:32.560 fastballs to the face. Then I had a problem sitting in the batter's box. Then you get into high school

00:13:38.180 and those curve balls, uh, you're swinging at those things and they're moving. Uh, no football was my

00:13:43.540 game. I loved it. It's still kind of my first love. My first ex-girlfriend is I like to laugh because

00:13:49.400 you always have those hard breakups with sports, but baseball I love because a lot of the nuances of life

00:13:54.640 that are in the game. And it's so much deeper than just kind of that surface level watching.

00:14:00.280 Yeah. I mean, it's baseball's notorious for being mental as opposed to physical. I mean,

00:14:04.260 obviously there's a physical component, but much more mental than I think the average

00:14:07.580 watcher or onlooker would, would realize what, so when you got hit with the balls in the face,

00:14:12.520 I mean, was that, did that do any damage? Knocked out my front teeth. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And this was

00:14:19.000 still, I was still young too. So knocked out my front teeth and then just psychologically, man,

00:14:24.800 sitting in that box totally starts to play with your head a little bit. And then obviously as you

00:14:29.480 get older, you get those breaking balls. It looks like it's coming at your head. And so you're already 0.99

00:14:33.560 turning and trying to swing to shield your face. Yeah. Drops right in there. Yeah. Those guys that

00:14:38.420 take those shots, you get about one a year. Those guys take shots to the head or the face at the

00:14:43.420 major league level, man, the fact that they go back, that's blows me away because of the mental

00:14:49.420 hurdles you have to go through just to get back in there. I mean, that ball speed at that level is

00:14:55.360 insane in terms of reaction time. You couldn't just rub some dirt on it and keep going or what? I mean,

00:15:00.520 what's the problem here, man? I mean, I did when I was young and then I was like, you know what?

00:15:04.660 I like this football game a little bit better, which is funny because you think about it. I mean,

00:15:09.080 football is from the outside looking in is a lot more violent, right? Than baseball would be,

00:15:13.260 but yeah. Yeah. A lot more violent playing quarterback that was very cerebral for me,

00:15:18.020 which I really enjoyed. I knew I was going to take shots and get blindsided and all that, but

00:15:23.880 some reason it just didn't matter as much as taking a fastball to the face.

00:15:28.480 Yeah. Oh, for sure. I mean, cause you kind of expected at that point, right? You're not expecting

00:15:32.020 to get hit with a ball in the face. Did you ever watch that Randy Johnson video where he threw that

00:15:35.560 pitch and it completely just obliterated that bird that flew in its path? Yes. One of the,

00:15:40.860 one of the best baseball videos because it's just an explosion.

00:15:44.080 Yeah. I mean, it's unreal. Like I think there's just a poof of feathers, essentially.

00:15:48.720 There's a documentary on iTunes called fastball. That's one of, if you like baseball,

00:15:53.420 it's one of the most fascinating things I've watched because it's the history of the fastball

00:15:57.200 and it goes back to when baseball started all the way to present day. And they're interviewing

00:16:02.260 batters and pitchers and talking about comparison of eras who actually threw the fastest fastball because

00:16:08.980 the mound is moved and changed and sure, but it's fascinating listening to these batters talk about

00:16:14.120 the ball and the illusion that it has when it's a hundred miles an hour versus at 90 because gravity

00:16:21.000 takes over. You know, as soon as the pitcher releases it, that opportunity is coming at them

00:16:25.860 and gravity is going to pull it down naturally. And so the batters are used to that. But when a guy

00:16:30.060 throws a hundred gravity, can't pull it downward as fast. And so the batters, it looks like it's rising.

00:16:36.620 It's playing an optical illusion on them that it's rising. And so batters swear that the ball

00:16:41.100 rises on them at the last minute. And it's just fascinating because you watch it and you hear

00:16:46.480 these guys talking about it. And there's so many different analogies in life that, you know,

00:16:51.240 certain opportunities come at you faster than others. And sometimes you kind of just got to close

00:16:56.000 your eyes and grip and swing versus like, please be a ball, please be a ball. Strike one.

00:17:01.600 Yeah, man, that makes sense. That's crazy. I know I grew up playing competitive sports and

00:17:05.700 I've learned so much from that, but I guess the question then leads to, I mean, you look at life

00:17:10.480 now, it's not really a competition. Like there is no scoreboard. I can jump on the scale and I can see

00:17:17.080 that I'm losing weight or I can see I'm putting on muscle. I can look at my bank account and realize

00:17:22.000 that my debts are going away or my assets are rising. And I guess that's kind of a scoreboard,

00:17:26.760 but how do you, how do you compete when it's not necessarily a competition and there's nobody who

00:17:32.080 wants to destroy you on the other side of the field? You know, it's funny. I think it's,

00:17:37.260 it's daily a competition with yourself. And from the negative sense, I'll say this. It's easy to

00:17:42.940 get caught up in the idea that you're competing against all these other people when you go on

00:17:47.160 social media, because you see, like you talked about, you know, Hey, I'm losing a little weight.

00:17:51.300 I'm getting out of my debt. You look on social and you see somebody that's just jacked and you assume

00:17:57.800 everything's great for them. They're perfect. They did it the healthy way. Like I'm competing

00:18:02.100 against them. Why can't I be like that? Or the person that's flashing money in a new car on

00:18:06.380 social media and you feel like you're losing, like instinctively something in the back of your

00:18:10.160 head. It's like you're losing to that guy. And as men, as competitive as we are, it's very easy to

00:18:16.020 get caught up in that. Whereas on the flip side, the real competition we've had, and we honestly,

00:18:20.900 we always have is with ourselves. It's the idea of, did I do my best today? If I didn't,

00:18:26.520 where did I fall short? How can I be better tomorrow? It's going into that weight room and

00:18:32.120 being like, you know what? I did 15 squats today at 225. Let's see if I got 16 or 17 in me and

00:18:38.520 pushing yourself just a little bit harder, you know, and how you're treating your family. Like

00:18:42.400 this month I did great in this area, in this area as a husband and a dad, but here's where I fell

00:18:47.260 short. Here's where I should have spent more time with my kid. And here's where I see that now.

00:18:52.040 And so it's the idea of, can I one up myself to be better? Then it becomes a game of you versus

00:18:58.520 you. And the beauty of that is you control that. You a hundred percent control that competition.

00:19:03.220 Whereas if it's a me versus you, I have no influence or control on what you do, what you

00:19:07.840 say, who you know, what skills you have, what habits you've developed. It's a game. I don't know

00:19:13.260 the full story. And so I can't win. But with me, I know the full story. It's the thing I talk

00:19:18.920 about when you're running a race, like your body physically cannot run at top speed. If

00:19:23.420 you're always looking to your left or your right or behind you, a track star would take

00:19:27.400 off out of the gate. As soon as they start looking around to where everyone else is,

00:19:30.740 they slow down because your body is not created to run when your head and neck are twisted in

00:19:36.260 other directions. Right. That makes sense. Yeah. So it's only by looking forward, focusing

00:19:40.580 on your lane, on your finish line, pushing onward that you're able to run at optimal speed.

00:19:45.300 And the same applies to our life. It's when we're focusing on ourselves, our lives, our

00:19:49.560 lane, how can we be better and pressed onward that we're able to do our best?

00:19:54.340 Yeah. I mean, that's a good point because I think it is a danger to look at what other

00:19:58.220 people are doing and compare yourself to what other people are doing because you don't know

00:20:01.300 their story. You don't know what's going on. But I, but I also think it's damaging to assume

00:20:06.660 that what other people have is just luck. Like they just ran across. I think that's more

00:20:10.480 common like, Oh, this guy just got lucky. So that's why he's rich or he got lucky and

00:20:15.560 he has the perfect physique and that's why he's in shape. And I think what we end up doing

00:20:20.580 a lot of times is discounting the amount of work to get there. So I don't think it's necessarily

00:20:24.320 damaging to look at other people. If you're asking yourself the follow-up question of how

00:20:28.700 did this person accomplish this feat? Like how did they actually go about having the wealth

00:20:34.700 or having the physique or having whatever it is they have in their life? I think that's the

00:20:39.400 follow-up question that most people miss and they just assume, Oh, this guy's just

00:20:42.880 lucky. And that's very rarely the case. And that's key. I mean, what you just said

00:20:47.040 is, is a hundred percent key because if you make the assumption, you're like the

00:20:52.540 person that lost and you whine and complain instead of being like, well, why didn't we

00:20:57.080 win? Let's go study the tape. What did they do better? What can I learn from them? What

00:21:01.240 can I learn from my mistakes? How can I get better? And that's what competitors do. I

00:21:05.060 mean, the best in any sport, they study the competition. They study their own

00:21:09.380 film to see where they fell short and what the others are doing and then increase it.

00:21:14.300 And the social stuff, it's easy to get caught up in that because not a lot of people will

00:21:18.700 be authentic in how they actually got there. They don't want you to see some of the behind

00:21:23.400 the scenes, but there are people that are, that are genuine out there. And if you're committed

00:21:27.420 to being your best self and competing for that, you absolutely are going to find those people

00:21:32.680 and learn from those people because you want to see how to get there because they've gotten

00:21:37.060 there. It's the same thing that Jordan, when the Pistons used to beat the snot out of him,

00:21:41.820 if you, if you saw the 30 for 30 on the bad boys, Jordan bulked up in the off season solely

00:21:47.360 because Detroit was able to out muscle and push him around. And he came into the next,

00:21:52.940 the next season just jacked so that those big bodies wouldn't beat him up anymore because 0.95

00:21:58.460 he saw what was beating him. He saw who was beating him, how they were doing it and said,

00:22:03.140 all right, this is how I can get past them. And then he did.

00:22:06.620 This is the value in taking an objective look at yourself. Cause what you said earlier is just

00:22:11.840 because you lost doesn't make you a loser. And I think what a lot of guys will do is they'll look

00:22:16.180 at it and say, well, I lost, so I'm a loser. I have some fat, so I'm fat, lazy, out of shape. 0.97

00:22:20.940 I'm a slob, whatever. And they start identifying with that versus an objective look. Here's why I lost. 0.87

00:22:27.020 Here's why I'm not healthy. Here's why I don't have money. Here's why my relationship sucks.

00:22:30.560 It doesn't make me a failure. It's just the data, the facts and the raw data. Now you use 0.97

00:22:36.000 that information to change your life moving forward. You don't need to get so emotionally

00:22:40.160 attached to it. And I think that's the danger we run into. Yes, I completely agree with that.

00:22:47.060 On the subject of competition today, I want to talk with you about the iron council.

00:22:51.900 It's been said that what gets measured gets improved. And that's part of the reason that

00:22:56.740 keeping score is so powerful. It gives you instant feedback on your performance. I think that we all

00:23:03.360 inherently know this, but very few of us are incorporating competition and keeping score

00:23:08.380 into our lives. Once we get out of school and sports and some of those things that we're doing,

00:23:12.380 we just don't incorporate the stuff into our lives. And keeping score is actually a huge component to

00:23:16.880 what we do inside of the iron council. This is a brotherhood of nearly 400 men who are all working

00:23:22.180 together to push and motivate each other. But it goes so much deeper than that. We have a very,

00:23:27.380 very specific planning tool that will help you keep score in your own life so that you can have an

00:23:33.640 objective look at your performance so you can improve. We have challenges every single week

00:23:39.600 that are issued. We will soon be competing against each other as teams within the iron council. So

00:23:44.680 there's so many different ways for you to keep score. There's so many ways for you to compete with

00:23:49.640 other high achieving men who are motivated, ambitious, driven, just like you are. And I

00:23:55.600 don't know about you, but for me, I want to surround myself with these types of guys and those who

00:23:59.960 compete and know how to use competition in an effective way are naturally going to produce

00:24:05.000 better results in their lives. So if you're interested in what we're doing with a competition

00:24:09.620 component, but other components as well within the iron council, head to order of man.com

00:24:14.060 slash iron council. Again, that's order of man.com slash iron council. Check it out after this show.

00:24:20.220 In the meantime, let's get back to the conversation with Jake.

00:24:24.460 So let's just shift gears here a little bit and talk just briefly about your business, because I

00:24:29.080 mean, you believe so much. So in this, this idea of competition that you named your business after,

00:24:35.140 right? Which is compete every day, which is an apparel company, right? Do you guys do anything

00:24:40.060 outside of apparel? I do speaking. We've got the apparel is the main thing. And then we're working

00:24:45.020 on kind of a daily journal piece to incorporate in for that competing every day. Just that little

00:24:51.380 reminder. So give me the inspiration. Give me the motivation behind here's why I started this

00:24:56.700 organization. Here's why I fully believe in what I'm doing and why it's so valuable for people.

00:25:01.440 Yeah. So man, this was probably eight years ago, 2010, I had a consulting business. I was doing

00:25:07.480 incredibly well. I was happy on the outside of what I was building. But really, you know,

00:25:13.920 like a lot of times when we get into these vain pursuits, I was building a sandcastle. Like I like

00:25:18.920 to tell everyone, it was a great sandcastle that deep down, I was like, man, this thing's going to

00:25:23.520 wash away. I've done nothing but selfish pursuits. And at the same time, I was reading a book called

00:25:29.080 A Million Miles in a Thousand Years by Donald Miller. And in that book, he talks about story and the

00:25:34.740 importance of story and how the life that we live is what we tell the world that's important to us.

00:25:41.600 It's what we tell others that we value and we find importance in. And just the pieces that make

00:25:46.340 for a great story also make for a great life. And I remember reading that book and being just struck

00:25:51.620 with the idea that I was living a crap story. Like there is no reason anybody would want to be a part 0.83

00:25:57.120 of that story. And so I was like, I wanted to change it. I wanted to do something that would not

00:26:02.600 only live beyond my years, but I can make a positive impact in people. I can point to people

00:26:08.040 and say, I want to help you. Let me encourage you, which I felt I was just naturally gifted with

00:26:13.160 encouragement, leadership skills. And so I toyed with these ideas of pursuing greatness in your life,

00:26:19.000 whether it was your faith, your health, your dreams, your relationships, pursuing your best in

00:26:23.920 every area every day. And eventually the idea of compete every day is what morphed out of that

00:26:29.480 because of my competitive spirit and just being one of the most competitive people.

00:26:34.000 My friends knew that word became attractive and not in the sense of me versus you, as we talked

00:26:40.020 about, but in me versus me. And how can I compete for my faith, for my health, for my goals,

00:26:47.140 for the relationships in my life every day being active. And so I had the idea, I spent about eight

00:26:53.000 months tinkering with some different projects that failed. They didn't really ever get off the ground

00:26:57.600 until my best friend suggested I look at this t-shirt company out of Boston called Life is Good.

00:27:02.840 And he said, man, these guys have three simple words. It's a pretty standard message, but people

00:27:07.720 love it. It's built around this brand message of the power of optimism. And he said, you are pretty

00:27:12.520 passionate about this idea of getting people to compete for their life. Why not throw it on t-shirts?

00:27:17.560 So at the time I didn't know any better and put some money into a couple of boxes of t-shirts and

00:27:21.640 tanks and started selling out of the trunk of my car, talking to really anyone and everyone I could

00:27:26.260 read about this message. And so today, you know, we still print, compete every day on our shirts,

00:27:31.480 but on a lot of them we put other messaging because I found it's like going and listening

00:27:36.640 to speakers. You could go to a conference and you could hear 12 speakers say the exact

00:27:42.100 same message. They're talking about the same idea, same message, but all 12 of them present

00:27:46.260 it very differently because of who they are, what they've experienced, where they've come

00:27:50.160 from. And you may only connect with one or two of those speakers because of how they

00:27:54.580 shared their story, even though it was the exact same message and idea that every other

00:27:58.420 speaker had. And so we take that same approach in how we do apparel is we want to encourage

00:28:03.460 you to compete for your life, but also remind you that it's up to you to start competing for

00:28:08.540 your life. And so we tell that story through a number of messages and phrases so that people,

00:28:14.020 it clicks. So that with this person, this shirt's going to click and they're going to start

00:28:17.500 to realize I can be a competitor. Whereas another person, it's going to be a completely different

00:28:22.600 shirt that sparks and hits them because of where they are and what they're dealing with.

00:28:27.040 I really like this story because you're talking about selling shirts out of the trunk of your car.

00:28:31.280 And I think there's so many businesses that start that way, successful businesses that start that way.

00:28:35.980 And it's very easy for us to overlook that. Like sometimes we think, oh, this guy just must

00:28:39.960 have had a miraculous plan and the stars aligned and everything worked out. And in all reality,

00:28:44.220 like you had another job, I'm assuming. What was your other job at that point?

00:28:46.860 So I was doing marketing consulting. So I was helping at the time I had a sports team and a

00:28:52.080 telecom company that was helping with just marketing strategy, go to market, setting up

00:28:57.400 some of their basic social. So I did that. I actually did that for the first two and a half

00:29:00.980 years that I had compete because you know, 25, $28 t-shirts, I wasn't moving enough of those to

00:29:06.540 make a living. Yeah. I mean, you got to sell thousands and thousands of them.

00:29:09.720 Yeah. So we, uh, you know, we, we tried a bunch of different things. I could give a

00:29:14.240 laundry list of different failures that didn't work as we tried to refine that brand and figure

00:29:19.380 out what is that sweet spot for us until we really settled in that it's shirts and tanks

00:29:24.620 with messaging. You know, my skillsets in storytelling, let's figure out ways to tell

00:29:29.780 the same story over and over so we can impact as many people as possible and just remind them

00:29:35.380 to start competing.

00:29:36.740 And I think it's really easy to gloss over what you were doing before, but this is

00:29:39.820 interesting. This stood out to me as well is that you have a marketing background. So you

00:29:44.040 played to that strength to be able to build this other organization that is built around,

00:29:48.360 let's be honest, built around marketing a message, right?

00:29:51.580 Yeah. It's funny when you look at how those, if you just keep plugging how the different

00:29:55.460 stars align, because like for me, I wanted to be a sports agent growing up and wanted to

00:30:01.140 be Jerry Maguire. And I started interning at an agency in college and in grad school. And

00:30:07.000 while doing that, I taught myself graphic design, not deadly, but I'm, I'm dangerous. I like to

00:30:13.100 say. You are dangerous. Absolutely. 0.83

00:30:15.680 Teaching myself that I was like, well, you know, I don't know if I'm going to need this.

00:30:19.660 And then you flash forward a few years and I'm designing t-shirts because I couldn't afford

00:30:25.600 an outside designer or, you know, I'm doing one of these classes on writing and I, you know,

00:30:31.640 I'd like to write, but wasn't just in love with it. And now I'm writing emails multiple times a week,

00:30:38.200 every week.

00:30:38.880 And a book, right? You're doing, you're writing a book as well.

00:30:41.320 And a book. Yeah. And so you've got all these pieces that if you're constantly trying to build

00:30:46.560 your skillset and improve, it's funny when you look back five, 10 years down the road,

00:30:51.460 how pieces and stars start to align up of, man, I learned that back in 2007. And it might've taken

00:30:57.340 six years before I was using it consistently, but I'm glad I have that all because I was doing

00:31:01.680 this work then to try and be better.

00:31:03.780 That's a really, really good perspective. And one that I share. And I, again, I think a lot

00:31:08.680 of guys will look at it and say, Oh, just one day he decided to do this and it all worked out.

00:31:12.720 I'm miserable in my job. And how do I get out of it? You know, I even look at our own story here

00:31:16.860 with order of man, which, which has been three years now. And what a lot of people don't know

00:31:21.620 is that I actually had a podcast before this and it was called wealth anatomy. And it was focused

00:31:25.920 on helping healthcare professionals with their financial services. And I did about 20 episodes,

00:31:31.020 give or take and realized, man, I really love the medium of podcasting. I just didn't want to

00:31:35.580 continue to have that conversation, but I learned that's how I got my feet wet in the, in the field

00:31:40.480 of podcasting. And so when I switched gears, I wasn't a new podcaster when I started order of man.

00:31:47.040 And so a lot of people think that, Oh, you know, this was a big success because you're just naturally

00:31:51.840 gifted or talented. No, not at all. Like, I don't even want to hear those previous versions of the

00:31:57.580 podcast, but I'm sure they're horrible. But I took, like you said, took that knowledge,

00:32:02.920 that information, that skillset that I had developed and learned and honed and refined,

00:32:09.040 and then shifted gears and use that information and those skillsets that I had to create something

00:32:14.380 that did take off relatively quickly, but it wasn't because I had just got into it. I had been doing

00:32:20.540 it long before starting order of man. And not only that, but how much did you learn from that process

00:32:26.740 of listening to those old shows of like, okay, I sound like this here. I need to pause more here.

00:32:31.940 I need to work on like, you go back and listen to the ugly stuff and the dirty and the grimy while

00:32:37.380 you're learning it, just so you can learn to be better and accelerate. It's like, if you were to

00:32:41.460 record podcast and you just record the one time through and you push publish and you never listen,

00:32:46.880 you never edit, critique yourself, how are you ever going to get better? I mean, you'll be a little

00:32:51.600 better in terms of talking because you'll be a little more used to it, maybe less awkward on the mic,

00:32:55.740 but your presence is carried in how you learn. And it obviously knowing your show and knowing how

00:33:02.160 you speak off the mic and in front of people on stages, like that translate, that communication

00:33:08.300 translates all over back from those beginnings of those first 20 episodes.

00:33:13.220 Yeah. Yeah. It was really funny. I jumped in my, uh, in my truck the other day and Bluetooth

00:33:17.200 automatically picked up and started playing my own podcast. And my wife and kids got in the car

00:33:22.040 with me and they're like, my wife's like, you listen to your own podcasts. And I was like,

00:33:25.720 yeah, I listened. Of course I listened to them. I mean, I don't listen to hear myself talk.

00:33:28.760 Although I like that. Let's be honest. But I listened to it. Like you said, to critique it,

00:33:34.080 where did I fall short? A lot of times I'm asking myself, oh man, I really missed a question there.

00:33:39.400 What question could I have asked or what direction could I have taken this or where should I have gone

00:33:43.860 deeper and what should I have skimmed over? How could I help coach my, the other person I'm

00:33:48.260 interviewing along to get to this point or that point? So yeah, I mean, we're always looking at

00:33:52.880 the stuff and I think it's so valuable when it comes to competition is that you've got to evaluate.

00:33:57.520 We call it the after action review. Like if you're not evaluating your performance,

00:34:01.540 how do you know if you're getting better? How do you recognize what's good? How do you recognize

00:34:06.220 what's bad? You don't, unless you look at the tape, so to speak. Absolutely. Well, you talked about

00:34:11.800 some of these failures and not to like drone on the failures at all, but I am really curious about

00:34:16.480 some of the things that you tried that, that just didn't work. And you, you shifted gears from

00:34:20.320 that. Yeah, man. You know, the, the custom performance game for us was something that

00:34:24.940 was just a beating. What do you mean by that? So looking at overseas production, custom cut and

00:34:30.520 so, uh, yeah, you know, we've done some custom cut and so bras and men's shorts and we carry some

00:34:36.800 of the products, but I mean, we were looking at men's shirts and like three years ago, I was like,

00:34:41.520 I need to have like Lulu lemon style product because we wanted to go that direction. And the

00:34:46.660 more I started going down some of that path, the more I was like one from a resource standpoint,

00:34:52.180 we probably spent 10 to 20 K that was either stolen by production houses or made into products

00:34:59.660 that I wasn't going to sell cause quality wasn't there. So you have that, you have different

00:35:05.200 products or directions and programs that we tried with members. Uh, you know, we do a shirt of the

00:35:10.520 month club. A lot of t-shirt companies do. And so we've always tried to refine it. And so two years

00:35:16.440 ago we said, well, what if we just sold the same thing, but we gave everyone a gift card so they

00:35:21.720 can pick out if they wanted hoodies or shorts or things like that. And our sales plummeted in that

00:35:27.080 program. And when we started asking for feedback, it's because people didn't want the choice. They

00:35:32.160 didn't want to have to remember to get the gift card. They love the idea of the something arriving

00:35:38.120 all month. So when you buy it, it's cause we sell it around the holidays. You bought it as a Christmas

00:35:42.600 gift. You're either like the great friend that got the gift that's showing up every month all year

00:35:46.840 long or the mom or the, you know, the husband and wife. And so people like it where the choice was

00:35:51.320 taken out of it. They actually didn't want the choice to go on there. And then just from our event

00:35:55.960 side, you know, the trade show business expos and events, we've had a roller coaster experience with it

00:36:01.540 trying to figure out which ones work and which ones don't. And we've had events where we've dropped

00:36:07.160 $20,000 into total costs for the event between staff and goods and travel. And you definitely don't

00:36:13.560 make all that back. And then you have some that, you know, you put in a lot less and you end up

00:36:18.480 incredibly profitable. So it's kind of that learning game because you don't really have a blueprint.

00:36:24.700 And if you make the mistake of trying to be just like everyone else, you tend to fall into a little

00:36:31.380 more traps instead of saying, what is my brand? What are my personal strengths and skill sets? And how

00:36:38.580 can I be better in playing off of those? So I can't be the same t-shirt guy that the grunt style guys

00:36:45.740 are like that's we're different people. We have completely different personalities and brands. But if I try to

00:36:50.540 be just like them, I would fail miserably. Yeah. I mean, you get destroyed because they've got the market on

00:36:55.460 the way they look and feel and their imaging and everything else. Yeah, absolutely. And so we have to do

00:37:00.320 differently. So it's, you know, the guy is starting something. It's easy to think I got to do it just like

00:37:05.440 them because they've done it successfully. You've got to learn that it's more of a, I need to learn what made

00:37:10.760 them successful, what they did that was unique for them, how they did that, and then look at it versus how can I

00:37:16.520 be my best self through this. And the term that gets brought up for me when you talk about this

00:37:22.620 is tuition. I mean, at the end of the day, like all of those mistakes and the cost is just tuition.

00:37:27.740 It is. And people can look at it and think, oh, that's a lost cost. And it is. I mean,

00:37:31.800 let's not beat around the bush. It is. You don't want to make costly mistakes, but that's the price.

00:37:38.400 Like that's the investment for being successful that I think a lot of people overlook. They're like,

00:37:42.260 I don't want to lose money. Well, I don't want to lose money either, but I also don't want to be

00:37:46.500 complacent and I don't want to not be successful. And sometimes we've just got to invest and realize

00:37:51.320 that the costly mistakes are tuition that help us thrive moving forward.

00:37:55.900 Absolutely. I mean, you, you pay to learn those mistakes. And for a lot of people, that's the

00:38:00.300 reason they, they sit with that bat on the shoulder. As we talked about earlier, they're

00:38:04.440 scared to, to make that mistake or have the risk of that failure. But every one of those guys and

00:38:10.440 people you look up to that are successful have a laundry list of where they swung the bat and missed,

00:38:15.200 but it's only because they kept swinging the bat that they hit the home runs or the base hits that

00:38:19.760 have got them to where they are now. How do you feel like you've distinguished yourself? I mean,

00:38:24.520 apparel industry in general is so I'm sure oversaturated. You could probably talk for hours

00:38:29.360 and hours about that. How have you specifically been able to separate yourself and create your own,

00:38:35.480 your, your movement? I mean, it's essentially a movement, which is really cool to see.

00:38:39.780 Thank you. Yeah. You know, for us, it took some refining, but I think it's the idea,

00:38:44.340 you know, we started a lot within CrossFit, a lot within the fitness market. And when you first

00:38:48.760 look at the brand and people see compete, they're thinking it's in the gym. No, man,

00:38:53.920 I'm going to PR my lift today. I'm going to do this and that. And I think what's made us unique is the

00:38:58.740 more you look at our messaging, a lot of our stuff applies to the gym, but the way we present it,

00:39:04.460 the way we try to tell it and remind people it's about the other 23 hours of your life. And I think

00:39:10.720 that's, what's helped us tremendously is presenting that positive messaging in a way that a lot of

00:39:16.620 groups aren't in a clean, positive messaging, but doing it in a way that makes a lot of people think

00:39:23.160 of, Oh yeah, this could apply to the gym, but this is really about life and getting people's mindsets

00:39:29.620 shifted. And I think that's been the best part of our community is, is we've gotten a rabid community

00:39:35.260 of people that love competing. And a lot of them love competing in the gym and push themselves in

00:39:41.100 their sport, but they also have clicked on the idea of competing in life and talking to people

00:39:46.300 outside of the gym about what it means to be a competitor and choosing to be a competitor.

00:39:52.180 I really like what you said about clean, positive messaging, because I think,

00:39:55.660 especially in your market, I think it's very easy to go down a cynical path or a crude path that you

00:40:02.180 see a lot of these companies do. And you guys have kept it really clean. I imagine it's pretty

00:40:07.400 family oriented. I imagine from the outside looking in. And so I definitely appreciate that side of

00:40:12.160 things. Thank you. Yeah. You know, we've got a couple of shirts that'll throw a cuss word in here 0.97

00:40:16.660 or there, but for the most part, I've intentionally kept it clean because I see some of the stuff that's out

00:40:22.280 there and those brands, that's their message. But I want something that I have no problems wearing

00:40:27.180 in front of my kid one day or in front of my mom. And so if, if I have an issue wearing it in front

00:40:34.300 of someone else, why would I want other people out there wearing it? Because it all goes back to

00:40:39.100 that book, like what we wear just as much as how we live is what we tell the world that's important.

00:40:45.620 And so the shirt, the words that we wear on our shirt is, it's almost our message to other people

00:40:50.380 that we come in contact with that. Yeah, this is what I believe in. This is what I stand for.

00:40:55.600 And so I want to make sure that the people wearing our stuff are telling others that they're choosing

00:41:00.180 to be competitors and they're standing for that positive motivation. Right on, man. Right on. Any

00:41:05.360 other final words on competition? Why it's so important, how to be a better competitor?

00:41:11.460 Yeah, actually, if you love competition, I've got to tell you, there's a book called Top Dog

00:41:15.820 by Poe Bronson and Ashley Merriman that actually dives into the science behind competition.

00:41:22.660 And it's fascinating to talk about how men and women respond differently to competition,

00:41:29.080 not only in head to heads, but in small groups and large groups and an individual training. And so

00:41:35.160 if it's something where you're like, yeah, I mean, I get the idea of competing, but you know,

00:41:39.960 I don't really have anyone I compete against. I would dive into that book to see what the importance

00:41:44.800 is of it as a man, and then evaluate how you can start competing against yourself. And the book

00:41:50.700 talks really highly about some different aspects of that. And, you know, I just encourage guys,

00:41:55.740 like, if you're not into it, if you're kind of settling in a lot of areas, which I don't see that

00:42:01.340 from many people in your community knowing you, but if you find you're missing a little bit of that

00:42:06.220 that you might've had in high school or in youth sports or college, and you're just like, man,

00:42:10.700 I need some competition, I would set some personal goals. And then I would get a couple of your

00:42:16.240 buddies within your community and say, Hey, I've set these goals. I'm going to push myself to be

00:42:21.380 better in these areas. Will you guys hold me accountable? And then will you guys try to beat

00:42:26.320 me? So it's a fun, friendly competition with friends, but the real thing is on paper between

00:42:31.020 you and the person you look at in the mirror.

00:42:33.820 Yeah, I like that, man. And we'll definitely link that book up. So the guys have that as well. It's

00:42:37.320 called top dog. So very cool, man. Well, Hey, as we, uh, as we wind things down today,

00:42:41.640 I do want to ask you these last couple of questions. The first one is what does it mean

00:42:45.520 to be a man?

00:42:46.980 To me, being a man means being a leader and a provider for others. It means staying true

00:42:56.480 to how you were created, uh, in terms of, of who you are, what you were created to be

00:43:02.420 and being the, almost the lighthouse for others to look to, because you were created to, to lead,

00:43:09.700 not in a negative way against our female counterparts. You were created to be a leader 0.64

00:43:14.840 and to be the strength and backbone in a lot of areas. And so I think that a hundred percent is what

00:43:20.520 it means is that person that others look to as that lighthouse, knowing that they're going to

00:43:26.060 provide that strength and that leadership.

00:43:27.600 Yeah. Powerful. Powerful. Well, brother, how do we connect with you? Learn more about what you're

00:43:32.300 doing?

00:43:33.000 Yeah, I'd love to compete every day.com compete every day is all of our links on social media.

00:43:37.600 I'm most active on Instagram. If you're there and it's just life is worth competing for is my handle.

00:43:43.960 I'd love for you to say hi.

00:43:45.360 Right on. We'll, we'll link it up so the guys can find you. I appreciate you, man. It's been good to

00:43:49.160 get to know you over the past couple of months. And of course, see you speak with American dream,

00:43:52.560 you, and I'm looking forward to getting to know you better in your company and excited to

00:43:56.260 introduce the guys here that listen to your company, your organization and things you're

00:43:59.900 doing. Thanks for being on the show, man.

00:44:01.560 Thanks, Ryan. It's been an honor.

00:44:04.280 Gentlemen, there it is. My conversation with Jake Thompson. I told you it was going to be a

00:44:08.560 powerful one. I hope that it was as powerful for you as it is for me. And I hope you're walking away

00:44:13.740 with some ideas, some ideas and some insights and thoughts about how you can incorporate competition

00:44:19.520 more fully into your life. And if you're going to do that, you walked away with some valuable

00:44:25.140 information and insights, please leave me a review, leave me a message, shoot me a message,

00:44:29.940 shoot Jake a message. Let us know what you thought about the show. Let us know what you

00:44:33.160 thought. Let us know what you'll be incorporating. The more that I hear from you guys and the more

00:44:36.980 our guests hear from you, the more I have a better idea of what it is that you want to hear,

00:44:41.620 what's resonating, what's landing, what isn't. And then of course we can just make this a,

00:44:45.580 a better show for you. And that's the ultimate objective. We want more men listening to this.

00:44:50.480 We want more men applying this. And therefore I am open and receptive to positive and constructive

00:44:57.320 feedback so that we can continue to make this a better show. So hit us up on Twitter, Instagram,

00:45:02.600 Facebook. I'm all at order of man or at Ryan Mickler. Jake is at compete every day. Go check it

00:45:08.540 out. See what they're up to see what we're up to. Again, earlier I had mentioned the competition

00:45:13.240 component and the keeping score component of the iron council. So if you have not yet looked into that

00:45:18.260 or you're on the fence, maybe you're on the fence about it, go check it out. Give it a try. Try it

00:45:22.220 for 30 days. Learn about what we're up to. I think you're going to find that it's a very,

00:45:26.700 very powerful way to improve your life. And if for whatever reason you find that's not the case,

00:45:31.980 then let me know and we'll go ahead and release you out into the world. But I'd love to have more

00:45:37.660 of you guys there. Again, that's order of man.com slash iron council. So guys, with that said,

00:45:44.120 I'm going to sign out, we will catch you on Friday for our Friday field notes. We've got a

00:45:48.380 powerful conversation and a topic I want to discuss there. So make sure that you subscribe

00:45:52.240 again, leave us a rating and review. We cannot do this without your support. I appreciate you being

00:45:57.320 here. I appreciate the support until Friday guys take action and become the man you are meant to be.

00:46:04.360 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

00:46:09.000 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - May 22, 2018

166： Why Men Should Compete ｜ Jake Thompson

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