Order of Man - 177： Building a Business of Meaning and Significance

00:00:00.000 Building a business is something on so many men's minds. I can't even begin to count how many men I

00:00:05.840 hear from who are unsatisfied with where they are with regards to their professional life and career

00:00:11.160 path. Today, I talk with my good friend, Jordan Harbertson, co-founder of Mountain Ops to uncover

00:00:16.260 how he's been able to build a thriving business. We cover the importance of proximity to other

00:00:21.840 powerful people, how to know when you're ready to take the entrepreneurial leap, striking the

00:00:27.120 balance between giving and taking, and how every man can build a business of meaning and significance.

00:00:33.660 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your

00:00:38.740 own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not easily

00:00:44.720 deterred, beating, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you

00:00:52.140 will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:58.680 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and the founder of

00:01:03.020 this podcast, The Order of Man. If you've been with us for any amount of time, you know what we're all

00:01:07.660 about. If you're joining us for the first time today, I want to welcome you and to let you know

00:01:12.300 a little bit about what we're doing. My goal is to help you become a better man, a better father,

00:01:17.160 a better husband, business owner, community leader, whatever facet of life you're showing up

00:01:22.220 as. I want to give you the tools, the guidance, the resources, the direction, the accountability,

00:01:27.480 whatever that looks like for you to help you fulfill those more adequately, to step into those

00:01:32.340 roles of what it means to be a man. So I'm glad you're on this journey. We've been going for about,

00:01:36.240 man, three and a half years now. It's been a crazy, amazing, wild adventure and experiment,

00:01:43.200 and it's working as testament to the fact that we are continuing to grow each and every week.

00:01:48.640 We couldn't do it without you. So I want to welcome you. And at the same time, I want to thank

00:01:52.220 you for being on this journey with me. It's critical, critical that we all step up. And I

00:01:58.300 know that the world needs us as men more than it ever has in the past. We've got a great one lined up

00:02:03.820 for you today, guys. I want to give you just a couple of very, very quick announcements. Normally I

00:02:08.820 would talk about our sponsor origin, and I am going to talk about them in a roundabout way.

00:02:13.800 We just partnered with origin to come out with the very first order of man rash guard. I mean,

00:02:19.880 it's absolutely unbelievable. It's made by origin, a hundred percent made in America. And we've got a

00:02:25.980 very, very limited pre-sale going on right now. So if you want to support the show, you're into

00:02:32.040 martial arts or jujitsu. You can get a top-notch rash guard made by origin by heading to orderofman.com

00:02:41.320 slash rash guard, orderofman.com slash rash guard. You can pick up your rash guard there. You can

00:02:46.740 support us. And then of course, look good while you are rolling in jujitsu. And while you're there,

00:02:53.500 you can check out the rest of the merchandise. We've got shirts, we've got hats, we've got patches,

00:02:58.380 we've got some water bottles that just came online. We've got a lot of cool stuff over there.

00:03:01.920 Great way to support the show. And then of course, get some cool swag and merchandise as well. Head

00:03:07.300 to store.orderman.com and you can check it all out there. All right, guys, that's all I have by way

00:03:12.400 of announcements. This one is a little bit different. Actually, a lot of these podcasts I've

00:03:17.040 been doing over the past several months are a little bit different. I'd love to get your feedback,

00:03:20.900 your take. These are a lot more conversational, a little bit longer than they've been in the past.

00:03:24.940 I'm starting to do a lot more of these conversations live as opposed to over Skype or over the phone.

00:03:30.320 So please give me your feedback. Let me know what you think. Leave us a rating and review,

00:03:33.440 shoot me an email, a message on Twitter or Instagram, very active on both of those places,

00:03:38.860 more so probably than Facebook lately. Twitter is at order of man and Instagram is at Ryan

00:03:44.700 Mickler. My last name is spelled M I C H L E R. So make sure you connect with us there and

00:03:49.000 let me know what you think about the new formatting. Today, I'm going to be introducing you to my friend.

00:03:54.220 His name is Jordan Harbertson. He and I met years ago. We both launched our businesses around

00:04:00.320 time and I've, I've been inspired just watching him market his business and create something

00:04:05.280 that I see is truly special for himself, his partners, his community, his family. I've watched

00:04:12.120 him and his partners take mountain ops from a very simple idea to a powerhouse in a very,

00:04:17.540 very crowded marketplace, which is supplemental nutrition. Jordan is one of the most real people

00:04:23.640 that I know. He talks about his struggles personally and professionally, including his

00:04:29.200 transformation with his fitness over the past several months. And of course, what it takes to

00:04:34.160 succeed in business and in life. We're on the air. We're live. We got the technical difficulties

00:04:40.480 worked out. Oh my goodness, man. I can't believe how difficult that was. I don't think people realize

00:04:45.020 how finicky technology can be, especially when you're just trying to do a podcast and you have audio

00:04:49.560 in, audio out. You're trying to split mono. You're trying to put in USB or HDMI. You're

00:04:54.860 look, look at all these cables you have here. Nobody's, this isn't video. So nobody can see

00:04:58.980 what we can see. There's a lot of moving pieces. It shouldn't be this hard. No, it's 2018.

00:05:03.340 We're in the 21st century. Yeah. It's the same way I think of internet. Like when my internet

00:05:06.840 goes out, I'm like, how like internet should be everywhere. It should be free. It's 2018.

00:05:12.740 There should be no dead spots at home when it's plugged into the wall. My internet should

00:05:16.940 never go out. I don't know if my expectations are set too high. Maybe that's what it is.

00:05:20.580 I think the same way when I think about cell phones too. I have Verizon and Verizon has

00:05:25.840 incredible coverage and I'll go somewhere and my bars are low. Yesterday, we went to Sushi Monster

00:05:31.700 down here in Farmington, Utah. It's one of my favorite places to go. Anybody wants to go there?

00:05:36.460 I don't know if I would eat there. Sushi Monster?

00:05:37.940 Sushi Monster. But I didn't even get the sushi. I got what's called the hibachi, which is like the

00:05:42.780 steak and vegetables. And my bars were at one. I couldn't even like function. And I'm just sitting

00:05:48.900 there going, how does this happen? I'm inside a building. I'm in an area. Like how does my signal

00:05:53.580 go down? And it's because we're so, we live pretty comfortable lives in 2018. Pretty cool lives. We

00:05:59.240 have internet, we have signals, we have podcasts, we have all these amazing things. And as soon as it

00:06:05.000 goes down to one bar, it's almost like life ends and chaos enters.

00:06:08.480 I mean, it isn't amazing that you can't, like we almost cannot function without technology. I know

00:06:14.900 if my internet's down, for example, I don't need to work that day because there's absolutely nothing

00:06:19.680 I can do that day. You're probably the same way.

00:06:21.880 I'm the same way. Like at Mountain Ops, when we moved into this new headquarters,

00:06:25.100 it was kind of eyeopening. So we're obviously an online business and we operate on social media

00:06:30.500 and we do have some retail channels and things and distribution. We moved in in February this year

00:06:36.080 and we did not have internet until end of April. Oh, so you were like more than a month.

00:06:40.720 Yeah. We went back to the stone age, man. And it was amazing to see how dysfunctional it made us as

00:06:46.800 a company because we operate in a way that, you know, we can operate offline. I mean, for our marketing

00:06:53.280 and design, different things like that, we can create the resources needed to deploy, but that word

00:06:58.120 deploy is deployed online. And when we don't have internet, we had to have our guys working from

00:07:03.360 different parts. They'd stay home and they take their computers home because they had internet

00:07:06.960 there, but we had no internet here. And you realized really quickly how for our team to be effective

00:07:13.480 and when we needed that for communication, because when we were apart, we weren't as strong as a team.

00:07:18.620 And then when we came together and that was all because of the internet.

00:07:22.040 Isn't that crazy?

00:07:22.640 It's insane.

00:07:23.560 You talk about team. I noticed, you know, one of the things I've been missing a lot in my life,

00:07:27.380 I think of it even up until recently is this idea of, of team and having people around you, you know,

00:07:33.680 like I came up here this, this weekend to do the mountain ops 5k and the total archery challenge and

00:07:38.260 spend some time with you guys. And we just got done working out this morning. It was pretty cool, man.

00:07:43.040 Cause I work out of home with a group of people, but outside of that, I don't have a whole lot of

00:07:46.960 interaction face-to-face with people because everything is digital. And I think there's a lot of people

00:07:52.400 because it is so digital and technology driven that the importance of proximity to other good

00:07:58.620 people is critical. I mean, I can feel that when I walk into this building and see what you guys are

00:08:03.300 doing in here. I think you bring up an incredibly important point of view that I think often gets

00:08:10.720 mistaken by the word social and media. Yeah. We do things where we're sitting there and we're

00:08:17.520 thinking, Oh, we're being so social. We're engaging with all these people like you and I will,

00:08:21.100 we'll send messages. Right. You slip into the DMs or whatever. Yeah. What's up, buddy? How's it

00:08:25.320 going? That's a sweet post or Hey man, keep it, keep going, you know, and we'll, we'll comment back

00:08:29.220 and forth and we become so socially connected, but yet we become so disconnected. True. Think about

00:08:36.000 emojis, right? Like, like I'll send you a post and you're like heart or fist bump. Yeah.

00:08:41.240 Communication is like one picture. Like I don't feel offended or anything that you, but at the same time,

00:08:45.980 it's like we're lacking this ability to have an in-depth conversation. Like to sit at this table

00:08:50.460 across from you and actually do this podcast is so refreshing because I think when as people you

00:08:56.640 are, who you hang out with, but when you don't have anyone to hang out with, it's hard to become

00:09:01.160 something else. You, it's all dependent on you. Yeah. I've read a few books that I really enjoy

00:09:05.540 where they talk about the five people in your life is really who you are and who you become cultured.

00:09:10.460 And so you bring up this, this almost desire in you to say, man, I really enjoy life, but I would enjoy

00:09:18.160 life a lot more if I had a little bit more people in it close in proximity, not just socially,

00:09:23.980 social media, Instagram, Facebook, but people in my life that I could do. And that's, I think here,

00:09:29.540 a thing when people ask us like at Mount Ops, they're like, man, what makes it so successful?

00:09:33.540 I'm like, there's so many facets to that. You want me, that's a loaded question, but

00:09:36.820 the team aspect of it is huge. We're a family here. And I think a family unit, just like your wife and

00:09:41.740 your kids, when you have that family unit, you know, it's a support system. It's they're there,

00:09:45.580 they're championing you. They're, they're encouraging you to get better. And like,

00:09:49.460 I'm thankful for my wife and my life because she does that. And I'm sure your wife does the same.

00:09:53.220 She's always like checking in on us and helping us understand, Hey, you know what? You probably

00:09:58.160 shouldn't do that. You need to be better. They're our check and balance and having the team here and

00:10:03.120 this Mount Ops family, we talked about this morning in our workout and you were like, you walked in the

00:10:07.500 gym, you're like, dude, this is awesome. This is so great. You know, we've got the music going,

00:10:11.420 there's weights, we're all doing hard things. There's all these people, everybody's doing hard

00:10:15.420 things together, but it's that energy you feel when you're around that kind of people or that

00:10:21.020 team. Right. And it's, it's incredibly powerful. I know like today, this morning when I, I can't

00:10:25.320 even remember the gentleman's name I was working out with. Oh, Jaren. Jaren. Yeah. Jaren's a stud.

00:10:30.020 He was like, all right, here's what I'm going to do. I'm like, Hey man, can I just jump in with

00:10:32.700 you? Cause I don't like program my own workouts. I've been doing CrossFit. So I go to the gym. I'm like,

00:10:36.880 you and Brian Caller are the same. I don't know what to do. I'm here at the box. Where's the wad? I need to do

00:10:43.360 some snatches. Yeah. And so I see this guy working out. I'm like, Hey man, can I just jump in with

00:10:47.660 you? Like the guys, it fit. He knows what he's doing. He's like, yeah, jump in. And he was doing

00:10:52.240 squats and he was doing 15 reps. So he did four sets for 15 reps. The first one was good. Second

00:10:58.700 one was good. And he's keeps adding weight. And I'm like, dude, I don't know if I can get 15 of these.

00:11:02.920 And I get to like eight, nine. I'm like, I don't think I can get 15, but he's over my shoulder

00:11:07.680 standing there looking at me. I'm like, Oh dude, I got to get 15. Cause I'm not going to let him down

00:11:12.820 or look like a fool in front of him. So I got that 15. Then we did another set. I got that 15 in,

00:11:17.600 but I think that illustrates the point of having people around you, even if they're not like

00:11:22.320 physically or verbally pushing you just having other men presence of energy.

00:11:28.020 Absolutely. So it's a force to be reckoned with. And I agree a hundred percent because

00:11:32.780 I'll go to the gym and we're kind of obviously illustrating a place and situation utilizing the

00:11:39.140 gym is kind of that illustration of if I go to the gym by myself, I'll put my music on and

00:11:44.020 I'll get the weights. And I'll, as far as my mind mentally can push myself physically, I'll go there.

00:11:49.300 Yeah. Right. That push to fail or Hey, I think I can get another one. And I think when you bring up

00:11:55.300 that I can get eight of these in your mind, you're like, man, I'm already struggling. So like

00:11:59.520 if I can get eight, I'll be good. But there's just two more reps to get to finalize that.

00:12:04.640 And you can do two of anything, right? Yeah. It's only two more. It's not that much,

00:12:08.940 but when you have somebody there, it's, it becomes part of you to say, I'm not going to

00:12:14.520 let this person fail. I'm not going to let myself fail and I'm going to push to fail. And then you

00:12:19.220 did, you got more reps in and, and yeah, because if he wasn't there, I would have racked the weight

00:12:23.960 and been done at 50% of what I actually did. Could do a hundred percent. Yeah. So you built this gym

00:12:30.720 in here. You guys have been what, how long you've been in this building?

00:12:33.940 This building we just moved into here in Fruit Heights, Utah. It was a year and a half of

00:12:39.860 renovation after we took it over. And then we've now been in the building since February.

00:12:45.340 How much space did you add in here? Or is it just strictly renovation or did you do building out?

00:12:50.000 This building is we, I would show you the tour. It's been here since 1944.

00:12:55.060 Yeah. It's a cool building.

00:12:56.140 Cool building. It's got such a rich history to it. The community here, like as you're

00:13:00.700 drove up, you're like, am I going to the right place?

00:13:02.500 I know. I thought I was in a neighborhood and all of a sudden the neighborhood parted and

00:13:06.240 it's like, Oh, that's right. And, and what we saw in this building and what we love about it is

00:13:12.100 it's on mountain road. We're literally, the building itself is built into the basin of this

00:13:16.960 mountain on the Wasatch front. And it really to us was a piece that we saw that really fit us in

00:13:23.760 our culture. It's old, it's rustic. We obviously brought it up to code on a lot of things. We,

00:13:29.200 we modernized it, but maintain the integrity of the architecture of this building. And then as

00:13:33.480 you saw, like when we saw the building, I remember walking in the doors and that centerpiece and I

00:13:38.040 looked wall to wall and I said, this is where we will build our gym.

00:13:41.000 Really?

00:13:41.500 Yeah. And I thought, and, and Casey and Trevor were like, yeah, this would be awesome. Like,

00:13:45.420 yeah, this will be the lobby. This will be the office space, but this is going to be the gym

00:13:48.040 because this is the foundation.

00:13:49.820 And that's the original building right there, right?

00:13:51.800 Original. Everything we have brought back to its originality. And then we've just added some

00:13:56.560 modernizing to it, but we've maintained a lot of the integrity of the architecture that was

00:14:00.240 originally here back in 1944.

00:14:02.120 It was pretty cool just to come in this morning. And I think this has to do with

00:14:05.460 what you guys have done, brotherhood culture to see there was probably what seven guys in there

00:14:11.940 this morning, all of them working out and you walk in there and everybody's fit. I noticed that

00:14:16.580 like right away, like everybody in there's fit, which obviously ties in with the brand. But I think

00:14:21.920 you guys have just done a good job bringing in the right people, probably number one. I don't want

00:14:26.740 to put words in your mouth. I'll let you explain this. And then those that maybe, I don't want to

00:14:31.920 say falling behind, but maybe aren't up to par for lack of better term, probably see that and have

00:14:37.740 elevated their game too. I imagine.

00:14:40.820 100%. You and I were talking about this in the gym, just a little bit, a snippet as we kind of were

00:14:46.040 talking about. I was sharing with you like what's happened to me over the last 90 days. So here,

00:14:50.920 my quick story just over the last 90 days and how a human being can create habits and change and

00:14:57.860 create a better version of themselves. I've always been into sports. I've always been active. I did a

00:15:03.600 lot of basketball, soccer, played a little football, did hunting all grown up. My dad got my brother

00:15:10.340 Casey and I into hunting. We always went hunting with dad, which was awesome. I went through a transition

00:15:14.820 where I found purpose in life. I wanted to do marketing. I enjoyed it. I got an opportunity at a

00:15:19.860 very young age to be mentored by a successful marketing guy.

00:15:22.920 I mean, it's apparent that you've got a marketing background.

00:15:25.700 Yeah.

00:15:25.960 Like when you look at the business, just from the outside looking in, it's apparent.

00:15:29.140 And that was real key to Mountain Ops in its beginning because any company

00:15:32.640 out there, any person has the ability in this amazing country to create a product. Could be

00:15:37.640 anything. I mean, we're talking about supplements here, nutrition and energy, and people create,

00:15:42.020 you know, gun slings or they create backpacks. They create headphones. We're wearing

00:15:45.740 headphones. I mean, companies every day create new products or improve products, but there's

00:15:50.200 an important part of being able to tell that product story because you can have the best

00:15:54.260 product in the world, but if you can't tell its story or get it out there, then it doesn't

00:15:57.360 really matter because nobody's going to take it.

00:15:58.680 Well, because anybody can make a product.

00:15:59.700 Yeah. Anybody can make one.

00:16:00.500 There's no barrier to entry to making like a headset like you're talking about.

00:16:03.580 But to make the best headset, if you have the best headset in the world and you're like,

00:16:07.020 this is going to be the best headset for your podcast. And you're able to tell like five people

00:16:11.000 and the guy across the street has another headset and let's say it's not that great.

00:16:15.200 And he is able to tell a few more people. It's kind of sad because you actually have something

00:16:20.280 that's better, but he's able to tell more people than you. So I think oftentimes some products fail

00:16:26.940 in market or companies fail or don't succeed because they lack the ability of being able to tell

00:16:31.520 their message, to share their product with people. And so it was a perfect storm for us in the beginning

00:16:37.860 because Trevor, as you met today, Trevor was the mad scientist as we call him. He had already been

00:16:44.180 creating nutritional products for doctors and chiropractors for seven years before he even

00:16:47.940 met Casey and I. And while he was building product for seven years, Casey and I were marketing outdoor

00:16:53.280 industry companies like Hoyt, Browning, Easton, Benelli, H and K. Like we had a lot of different

00:16:59.400 clients in a lot of different parts of the outdoor industry. And it was a passion of ours. Like I

00:17:04.360 enjoyed telling a brand story. I enjoyed sharing their, the company's missions, goals, and wise

00:17:10.940 with people through marketing. And so that was always a passion of mine. Cause once you saw people

00:17:15.340 come into the brand and adapt into the culture or buy the product, and then you saw how they would

00:17:19.660 kind of go through and become like own it and say like, I'm willing to wear it, put it on my shirt or

00:17:25.780 a hat. I'm going to buy the product. I'm going to represent it. That was powerful for a long time.

00:17:30.860 Casey and I, as we were in marketing together and, and he worked at doing marketing for my dad's

00:17:36.640 company, I worked over here at a marketing firm. We eventually started a marketing company together.

00:17:40.840 We finally got to a point where we realized, man, like, I feel like we're making a difference.

00:17:45.480 We're helping these companies. We're helping to bring new customers or new people. It's,

00:17:50.020 it's helping their brands grow. And that's always for us gratifying as a marketing company,

00:17:53.960 because you're helping them return on their investments. But there came a point for me and Casey

00:17:59.340 where I realized I'm like, I'm not fulfilled. And we started to look at each other and say,

00:18:04.880 do we want to do this for the next 30 years? I think a lot of people are like that. I mean,

00:18:09.760 they're just, there's a miserable, you know, I talk with a lot of guys who were like the same thing

00:18:14.160 in a cubicle behind a computer detached from the rest of the world. And they're just miserable

00:18:20.720 and they don't see a way out. Anyways, keep going. I don't want to interrupt.

00:18:24.200 And we, and like, I loved what I did. Like every day didn't even feel like a job,

00:18:27.640 but I, but I started to realize real quick as an entrepreneur where I created this business.

00:18:32.300 I almost was subject to entrepreneurs. Oftentimes they go, well, if I become an entrepreneur,

00:18:38.160 create my own business, like I should be able to have more time, right? That, that allows me to do

00:18:42.080 more of the things I love. Hopefully that comes with an influx of income so that I can be financially

00:18:46.340 secure and support my family or my, my life. And while those things were kind of happening,

00:18:51.680 I remember one day we sat down and I said, man, I really feel like I want to be part of,

00:18:56.680 like we're building all these other brands. I really want to almost build our own brand.

00:19:01.360 I want to have a product. I don't know what that's going to be, but it's something that I desire.

00:19:05.040 Right. And Casey was like, brother, that is crazy because I have been having the same

00:19:09.560 fills. We've got basically 30 bosses or clients that we're subject to because we're a service

00:19:15.160 oriented business. We're on call with them whenever they need us. We've got to get projects done.

00:19:18.480 We only get compensated based on the project we do. And we keep the business if we return them

00:19:23.040 business. And while we were extremely successful at that, and that's why we had lots of

00:19:26.520 clients, Casey and I decided we're like, I want to, to change that and own our own brand

00:19:32.440 or own our own business. And so we started, Casey was like thinking of different things.

00:19:36.120 Like Casey's really into guns and long range shooting and hunting and all that. And so

00:19:41.540 he started thinking like, how can we create an accessory for a gun or something? That's

00:19:44.440 how we'll get in. And at the same time that we were trying to think of creating a brand

00:19:49.260 and product, Trevor Farnes is over here on his knees, praying to God saying, I've created

00:19:55.260 an amazing product. He had built a product that he called El Argin Incomplete. And El Argin Incomplete

00:20:00.060 was he found a way to take what was nitric oxide that we all have in our bodies. And there's a lot

00:20:08.060 of supplements out there that can amplify that process for about an hour and a half optimal

00:20:11.740 for the gym, good pump, good cardio, all that. He found a way to prolong the productivity of that

00:20:17.540 for 20 plus hours. And so with that prolonged process of vasodilation, which is where we

00:20:22.700 increase the veins, that's more blood flow and oxygenation throughout the body. He was able to

00:20:27.240 help people with neuropathy, people with heart issues, cardiovascular blood. I mean, everything.

00:20:32.520 Just because the blood was able to pump through the veins more efficiently, I guess.

00:20:36.200 Because like with neuropathy, a lot of people suffer from neuropathy because it's a lack of

00:20:39.640 circulation. They're not getting enough oxygenation and blood throughout their body. And so like they

00:20:43.120 don't have fillings in their fingers or toes. And with that increased vasodilation, they're getting

00:20:47.600 optimal amount of blood flow, heart's beating more effectively. So like it's optimal for cardio,

00:20:52.700 for circulation, for performance and output. He was selling it to chiropractors and doctors who were

00:20:58.060 prescribing it to their clients. But being who Trevor was, Trevor was like, I don't know how to get

00:21:03.980 this out to more people. I just know how to make really good products that work. And then as he

00:21:09.620 was on his knees praying to God saying, help me find someone that can help me do this and get

00:21:13.420 this out to more people so we can change more lives. That's when Casey and I were on our knees

00:21:17.700 praying saying, help us know what we could do to create a business to help more people or change

00:21:23.220 lives. And then all of a sudden through a mutual friend, we were brought together.

00:21:27.020 Okay. So you guys didn't know each other before that?

00:21:29.520 Casey and Trevor had met on one occasion and they figured they backtracked and found out. But besides that,

00:21:35.240 nothing really, no, never had, had met. And so we've met and we helped Trevor market his current

00:21:45.000 business. That was, we were brought in to say, Hey, there's this guy who's got this, these supplements

00:21:49.520 and needs help. And so we proved to Trevor in a month that we could double his cells and we did it

00:21:55.680 again. And then he finally sat down and said, guys, this is incredible. I've never worked with people

00:22:00.200 who actually yielded a result as fast as you guys did. They always say, give it six months and it'll

00:22:04.800 take off. Just keep spending with us. I promise it's going to, you know, the traction, it's going

00:22:09.620 to meet the road at some point. We're going to get some traction here. And so he was so impressed.

00:22:13.480 He just asked me and Casey the question. We're sitting in his office and he goes, guys,

00:22:17.240 I just want to know from you, where could I make more products? And I don't want to make them for the

00:22:23.900 saturated gym space. That's a very competitive saturated space. It's kind of got a black eye from

00:22:28.780 supplements in some ways. And that's when Casey spoke at me and he said, you know what? We should

00:22:32.980 build products with this product you've already got. We could expand upon it and we should build

00:22:38.460 products for outdoor enthusiasts, hunters, anglers, and Casey's like, and military and tactical guys,

00:22:44.200 because they're in the battlefield. Do you know this? Yeah. All day. They need 20 plus hours of

00:22:48.740 performance instead of just like, you know, maybe the gym for an hour and a half where it can be

00:22:52.240 optimized for that, but it's optimal for longer, you know, experiences in outdoors, battlefield,

00:22:57.960 back country, situations, situations. Yeah. I feel bad. We kicked Brian out of his office.

00:23:02.820 Isn't that so sad? Does he need, is he okay? Does he need to come in here?

00:23:05.520 He's good. I mean, I'll, in fact, if we just pause it for a quick second, I'll just ask him if he needs

00:23:10.280 his gear. Gentlemen, just a quick pause to tell you for the very last time about our order of man

00:23:17.960 legacy event. This is a father son event is designed for fathers or father figures and their boys

00:23:24.620 between the ages of eight to 15. And my goal is to get you up into the mountains of Southern Utah,

00:23:30.640 get you disconnected from technology and civilization to a degree and everything else that clouds our

00:23:37.000 ability to be better men and give you the tools and the guidance and the framework and the resources

00:23:42.900 to help you usher your young man into manhood. I look around in society and it seems to me that

00:23:49.920 there's a dismissal of masculinity and manliness. And my job is to help give you again, the tools to

00:23:58.800 be able to create a rite of passage for your son. This is something that I've done for my two oldest

00:24:04.080 boys. And every time I talk about it, it has been very, very well received from fathers who would like

00:24:12.080 to accomplish the same thing for their boys. So we're going to test you physically, mentally,

00:24:17.240 emotionally. We're going to have some powerful conversations, the development of some skills

00:24:21.900 that will benefit you and your son throughout life. And we're going to have a great time and

00:24:26.700 we're all going to walk away being better men for it. So if you are interested, we have three spots.

00:24:31.320 That's it. And once we fill up those three spots, it's done. We're shutting it down.

00:24:35.160 And I imagine that'll be in the next couple of days here. It's held. The event is held September 20th

00:24:40.680 through the 23rd, 2018. You get to Las Vegas. We take care of the rest. If you want to learn more,

00:24:46.760 you want to lock in your spot, head to orderofman.com slash legacy. Again, that's orderofman.com

00:24:52.720 slash legacy. I hope to see you there. Get one of those last three spots, orderofman.com slash legacy.

00:24:58.840 Do that after the show. In the meantime, we'll get back to the conversation with Jordan.

00:25:02.440 All right. We're back, man. We kicked somebody out of their office and I felt bad and he was

00:25:08.560 pacing by the window. So I'm like, let's see what we need to do here.

00:25:11.540 We kicked Gritty out of his office. That's right. We're like, Hey man, sorry, dude. We need to do

00:25:15.900 our podcast. You can do your podcast later. That's right. And he understood that. And he said,

00:25:20.240 that's right. And then he left. He's just like, we were talking about earlier. He's, he's got his bow

00:25:23.640 here. He's with Chad Van Camp from Garmin and they're, they're going out to finalize their bows before we go

00:25:30.300 and blow up a bunch of arrows this weekend. I'm excited. You say blow up a bunch of arrows.

00:25:34.360 I'm going to say, lose a bunch of arrows. It's like golf, dude. I used to measure my golf score

00:25:39.940 by how many golf balls I lost and went through. I feel like that's what it's going to be this

00:25:45.440 weekend. It's such a fun event because it is, it's like going and hitting 18 holes and, but you're

00:25:49.980 shooting 25 targets and is that what it is? 25 targets. Each course has about 25, give or take a

00:25:55.360 few targets, depending on how many Sean sets up, but it's just so much fun. And

00:25:59.900 you know, like I was telling you earlier, like, as long as you're on phone, phone is friend. You

00:26:04.320 can keep your arrow. Obviously if you've, you're shooting in those vital zones and you're hitting

00:26:09.300 target, that's even better and you feel a lot better, but it's such a fun event.

00:26:14.080 I just want to be out and just enjoy being outside, enjoying a hobby that, that I'm fairly

00:26:19.720 new to. And then just being with the guys, just having a good time, joking around and living it up,

00:26:25.360 man. We're going to be, it's just like four.

00:26:26.980 I've seen you guys with the, um, I don't know if it's you or Brian or somebody else who,

00:26:31.600 who likes to hit trees instead of the targets themselves.

00:26:34.740 It's when you shoot the total archery challenge in Pennsylvania and seven Springs here in Utah,

00:26:40.420 we're going to be at the snow basin ski resort. We're going to be shooting steep angles. We're

00:26:45.280 going to be shooting, you know, through long distances. There might be a couple of trees

00:26:49.680 we need to thread through, but in PA, all it is, is woodland area. And so they set up targets

00:26:55.880 between two inches of gaps. Like, so you've got to be a hero and thread it. So you're sitting

00:27:01.000 there trying to thread the needle through like a one inch, two inch gap in the vital zone. And

00:27:06.280 that's when you start to hit a lot of trees because you even, you know, float left or right.

00:27:11.240 Yeah. You're done.

00:27:12.000 Your arrow is just going to.

00:27:13.280 Right.

00:27:13.640 So that's what I did when I was very, I, so I've got a little target set up in my yard and it's

00:27:20.560 probably, I could probably get out about 60 yards and I think it was out at about 40 and I shot it

00:27:27.920 and it hit like the fence post right behind the thing. And my, my son, my oldest son thought it

00:27:32.220 was so cool. I'm like, dude, I mean, it's kind of cool, but I missed the target. I'm like, I couldn't

00:27:37.580 do that again. If I tried, he's like, dad, but look, it's like, you're like, dude, perfect. Look at

00:27:41.020 these trick shots. And that's what it was. It was like, just pegged right in. He's like,

00:27:43.800 dad, that's awesome. I'm like, yeah, it's like a foot away from where I meant to hit. I didn't

00:27:48.420 tell him that. I said, that is awesome. I meant to do that.

00:27:50.880 No, you're your son's biggest hero. You let him have that moment. Dad, you're so awesome. You're

00:27:54.500 super dad. You're like, you're right, son. I meant to do that.

00:27:58.180 I can't remember what we were talking about, man.

00:28:00.060 We were kind of talking about, I was just alluding to how we kind of came together with Trevor and how

00:28:05.380 mountain ops started. And, you know, that process of, we'd mentioned earlier, I think there's a lot

00:28:11.640 of people in life when you don't have purpose, you're almost just fulfilling a role or a job.

00:28:16.220 Yeah.

00:28:16.600 They become unhappy, unsatisfied. And they almost just kind of say, well, this is life.

00:28:20.480 Did you think that mountain ops, when you guys did, you, Trevor and Casey got together,

00:28:24.720 we'll talk about that here in a minute. Did you think that was the purpose that you were looking for?

00:28:29.700 Or was it, let's just try this and like throw it on the wall and see what sticks.

00:28:33.060 You know, it was so interesting because as we proved to Trevor, our personal capabilities of

00:28:39.420 being effective with marketing and getting, you know, a message out there or a brand and being

00:28:45.340 able to convert people to that brand and provide sales. And we said, you know, when we asked the

00:28:50.580 question to Casey and said, where else can we build these? And we said, Hey, let's, let's make some

00:28:54.380 products for a customer and a consumer who we are. We're hunters, we're back country hunters and we like

00:29:01.100 fishing and being outdoors. And these things would be beneficial to me and Casey personally.

00:29:06.500 So I know a lot of people that are like us that would like that too. And so when you asked the

00:29:10.840 question, like, did you like, was it something you're just going to like try out? I mean, in truth,

00:29:14.980 just like any barrier that you can enter with a company or product or an idea in this beautiful,

00:29:19.460 amazing country we live in, we did, we spent four months developing a brand, a name,

00:29:25.580 and a strategy. And while we were doing that, Trevor was building a few more products to add

00:29:32.280 to the initial original launch of mountain ops four years ago. We were kind of like, okay, well,

00:29:38.000 you have your business and we have our business. And so this is going to be kind of a test.

00:29:41.980 Let's try it out. Let's take this product. Let's build a few more and let's create this brand.

00:29:46.740 And then Casey and I came up with a strategy where we're like, we're going to blitz the market.

00:29:50.220 This is how we're going to do it. We're going to execute X, Y, Z,

00:29:53.000 and let's see what happens. Well, we launched July 2nd of 2014.

00:30:00.280 Okay. So you guys are about a year ahead of Order of Man. I didn't realize that's only,

00:30:06.440 what, five years? Yeah. Well, five years in process,

00:30:08.920 four years to market. Okay. And so is that kind of the same for you?

00:30:11.440 Yeah. We started in March. I did my first podcast in March of 2015.

00:30:16.520 That's awesome. Yeah. So right around the same time.

00:30:18.660 Yeah. It's cool. We got everything set. We got everything ready, put all our ducks in a row

00:30:22.340 and we went to market with Mountain Ops. And our very first time that the consumer or the public

00:30:28.660 was introduced to Mountain Ops was actually where we're going to be shooting at. Was it Total

00:30:31.960 Archive Challenge Snowbird? Yeah. We had a guy that was-

00:30:34.340 You sponsored it or what'd you do?

00:30:35.360 No. Or had a booth or something?

00:30:36.520 We had a guy that was working for us. His name was Rich Coles and he had this company called

00:30:39.780 Hunter's Nation. And it was a subscription-based business where hunters could subscribe and

00:30:44.160 receive opportunities to win free gear and get access to information, all this cool stuff.

00:30:48.040 And he was a sales rep selling, trying to go sell our marketing company and get us new

00:30:52.500 accounts. And so he's like, guys, I'm going to be at this Total Archive Challenge thing

00:30:55.780 this weekend. If you guys want, I have a little tent booth there. I'll take your guys' product

00:31:01.940 and I'll put it in a jug and we can do it. So that was like three days before the event.

00:31:07.140 Really?

00:31:07.540 So we're like-

00:31:08.360 Like scrambling and put everything together.

00:31:09.640 Yeah, scrambling. And so we went down to Home Depot and grabbed one of those orange igloo

00:31:13.720 things. We went to the local printer and printed a decal that was Mountain Ops and we printed

00:31:18.420 it over top of it.

00:31:19.540 Is it the same decal, like the same logo you have now?

00:31:22.400 It was a slight variation, but it was like, it was poverty. It was humble beginnings. And

00:31:28.520 so we filled this cooler up with Yeti at our pre-workout. And so as guys were coming off

00:31:33.600 the mountain, Rich was just handing out cups of this to people and saying, Hey, there's

00:31:37.360 this Mountain Ops company and they've got this product and it's for hunters and it's for

00:31:40.620 you and it'll help with your performance and your output and all these things.

00:31:43.720 And from that point, all of a sudden there was a peak of interest, you know, cause guys

00:31:47.080 like I've heard of supplements, but they have that black eye of like, or they're just thinking

00:31:51.340 like, you know, the meat heads and health and fitness industry and, and all of a sudden

00:31:56.160 like, well, I'm just a hunter. Like I don't go to the gym. Like I'm on a mountain. And they're

00:31:59.560 like, that's perfect. These products are built for that mountain. They're built for you to

00:32:02.640 perform in, you know, God's gym instead of gold's gym, but you can use them in gold's

00:32:06.700 gym too, if you want. It was shortly after July when we started to receive our first

00:32:11.520 orders online. And we're sitting here and I remember us running down in our little place

00:32:15.920 that we had and, and we'd run down and we'd label the product ourselves and ship it out,

00:32:20.540 put it in a box, set it by the door. And the UPS guy would come and grab them. And our first

00:32:25.360 day we relaunched our website and started putting stuff out there with friends and family. I think

00:32:29.760 we got like five cells and we're like, sweet. People are buying.

00:32:32.740 People bought it from July to August. We had a little bit of traction. And then all of a sudden

00:32:37.080 November is when we kind of hit that hockey stick.

00:32:40.760 Why? What happened then?

00:32:41.900 You know, we just, we executed our plan. We went full send with, we took the products and

00:32:48.420 Casey and I, because of our time in the industry and within the outdoor community, we had a vast

00:32:54.140 network of people we knew, influencers or companies, organizations, and we started seeding product

00:32:58.580 with everyone. And we started sending it out and kind of doing the Red Bull model where you just

00:33:03.060 kind of let them try it. Cause if it works and they feel good, then they're going to come back.

00:33:07.100 So we just started saturating with shirts and hats and supplements. And all of a sudden overnight,

00:33:11.420 all of a sudden this mountain ops company comes out of left field and everybody's like, who is this?

00:33:17.180 Yeah, I bet.

00:33:17.640 It took off. And so right then at about, you know, November, December is when we saw this has a lot of

00:33:25.920 potential.

00:33:26.680 It's pretty viable at this point.

00:33:27.340 Very viable at this point. I say we sell our business and we jump in.

00:33:32.380 Really? So that quick?

00:33:33.820 Yeah.

00:33:34.080 So less than a year or what? Four or five months?

00:33:36.800 Four or five months.

00:33:37.360 Yeah.

00:33:37.740 It just, it had the opportunity and it was, the thing was, is it was so exciting. It pulls you

00:33:41.920 away from your other business.

00:33:43.240 What was the, when you decided at least in your mind that you were going to do that,

00:33:47.660 what was, what was going through your mind? Cause I'm sure it wasn't like, yeah, no problem.

00:33:52.800 No red flags. Let's just do this. I'm sure there was stuff going on in your mind. Like,

00:33:55.940 should we sell this other business? Should we do both? Like what's going through your mind at that

00:34:00.780 point?

00:34:01.020 Yeah. At that point, you know, myself and Casey, we both left very secure jobs to start our first

00:34:08.340 business together and was making a very like 500 bucks a month. Oh yeah. And my wife thought I was

00:34:15.840 insane, but she supported me and Casey's wife too. Nicole, they were both very supportive of like,

00:34:21.640 are you talking about mountain ops? No, this is our first marketing company. Okay.

00:34:25.780 We both left our marketing company to start our own. Okay. And then we merged with another company

00:34:31.680 later. And then all of a sudden we built the company up to be successful. And my wife is like,

00:34:37.020 so you're telling me you're going to sell this successful company and you're going to jump into

00:34:42.220 a company that probably can't even right now support all of you with a paycheck, but you're

00:34:46.960 going to make it happen. I said, so why did she do that? I mean, I have my own theories.

00:34:51.080 Cause I've had this experience in my life, but I'll tell you what, there's a lot of guys that

00:34:54.980 are listening to this podcast right now who say my wife doesn't support me. She doesn't believe in

00:35:00.940 the new thing I'm doing. What do I do? So I'll share with you my thoughts, but I want to hear

00:35:06.260 why she would so be on board with that. This is, I have to be honest. So my wife from the very

00:35:11.680 beginning, since I was at my one marketing company and agency, and then moved and started my first

00:35:17.400 business together, she championed that she was like 100% for that because she, I came from a

00:35:22.740 father who was an entrepreneur, him and his brother ran the nuts and bolts fastener company for 32

00:35:26.980 years. They just sold it this year. And so that was kind of part of my upbringing. I was around a

00:35:31.480 dad who was an entrepreneur who owned his own business. And so I always wanted to own my own

00:35:35.980 business. That's why when we started it, my wife, 100% was behind me. And then when I'm going to

00:35:42.040 pivot and start a whole new one, there was some hesitancy there. And she was kind of curious because

00:35:48.060 she looked at me, she said, supplements, you're going to get into supplements, like from marketing

00:35:51.940 to supplements, how does this work? And I just, I remember looking at her and I said, sweetheart,

00:35:55.220 I can already see in this short period of time, how people have taken this product and seeing how it

00:36:00.700 affects their lives and the response they've sent back to us of testimonials and how it's impacting

00:36:05.000 their lives. And that is so empowering to me that I want to see more of that done. I want to help more

00:36:10.720 people. I want to see more lives changed. And I feel like this product, this company, this could

00:36:15.140 be that vehicle to fulfill more of what my own personal why. And so she was hesitant, but she got

00:36:22.940 behind it. She got behind it. She said, you know what? I trust you. I believe in you. And I know

00:36:29.100 because of your drive and because of who you are, that you will make this successful. And she had

00:36:35.220 already been through four or five years of struggling to understand going from the bottom to somewhat

00:36:40.600 starting to get out of it. And then now to go back into it. And that's where I think a lot of times

00:36:46.700 for people being comfortable as spouses, as couples, you know, you have a secure job, you have a good

00:36:52.900 income. Which I think is more, this is just general, but I think generally is more appealing to women

00:36:59.940 than it is men. Oh, a hundred percent. I mean, my wife's like that for sure. My wife is the same as

00:37:04.580 George. And I think like any, any wife that has a husband, who's a provider, that security factor

00:37:10.940 is huge. I mean, not only do they want a man that's tough, that can like protect them, but to

00:37:16.200 preside, to provide and to be there. That's what every woman wants. And so any sense of, of fracturing

00:37:25.560 that security becomes, I think for a lot of men or women, I think it becomes an uncomfortable state

00:37:32.140 of mind to say, why, why, why should we risk it? Why should we risk our security and what you have

00:37:37.980 in this job or this financial income or this to go pursue something that is completely unknown,

00:37:44.360 unscripted, and you have no idea if it's going to work or not. You know, we're literally walking

00:37:48.700 into the unknown and you want me to walk there with you when we already know this is working.

00:37:52.340 But I think to your point, and I think you hit it right on the head when you said,

00:37:55.040 she trusts you. She's been through it to some degree already. See, I hear a lot of guys that

00:37:59.800 say that like, oh, my wife doesn't trust me. She doesn't believe in me. Well, why should she?

00:38:04.920 You know what I mean? Like a hundred percent. Have you earned that? Yeah. Have you earned her

00:38:08.060 trust yet? And if you have, then she will trust you. But if you haven't, there's some things you

00:38:11.980 need to do to work on yourself. Yeah. Because just because you get married, just because you love

00:38:17.800 each other, that doesn't mean that you've merited the trust. Yeah. She's not obligated.

00:38:23.520 She's not obligated to trust you. And if you're demanding her trust, then you're doing some wrong

00:38:28.440 things because that's something we all have to earn. That's something that has to be respected.

00:38:33.660 And I think you bring up a critical point where from my previous business, my wife and I say,

00:38:41.140 my wife's name is Jordan. So I'm not talking in third person.

00:38:43.780 I didn't know that till this morning. Till this morning.

00:38:47.760 Cause I follow her on Instagram too. I follow both you guys. And I just assumed the reason she did

00:38:53.260 that was because maybe she didn't want her real name or something out in public. And I didn't know

00:38:58.320 that until this morning that her name is also Jordan. So we're Jordan and Jordan. So when I speak

00:39:02.760 of my wife, I'm not speaking like people are like, wow, he's egotistical. He's really full of himself.

00:39:07.440 Yeah. He's pretty full of himself. He says his own name and she was ready. I had proven to her

00:39:13.640 through hard work and sacrifice for those five to six years that I was capable of doing hard things

00:39:21.200 and being able to go through all the- And make it work.

00:39:24.760 And make it work. And so when I presented it to her, while there was a slight hesitation,

00:39:29.900 there was some case study there, if you will, for her to balance against and say,

00:39:33.860 this is definitely hard for me because we're finally getting out of the weeds here,

00:39:39.180 but I'm willing to do it again. Cause I know that you'll do it. And I trust you and I support you.

00:39:44.620 And I think anybody that starts a business or starts, wants to start anything, if they are married

00:39:50.580 and you don't have the support of your spouse, I think it is going to be incredibly difficult.

00:39:56.460 Oh, a hundred percent.

00:39:57.240 To get that success because you need that unit to be in complete unison to support the opportunity.

00:40:05.260 And well, not only the opportunity, but the struggle.

00:40:08.000 Oh, yes.

00:40:08.960 Because you do struggle. I mean, you've been in this business for about four or five years.

00:40:13.220 I've been in the business for four years now. It's not easy. And if you can't handle it

00:40:18.720 and you can't help your wife see and deal with those struggles, you'll throw in the towel way too soon.

00:40:26.140 Yeah. It's like an ox, two oxes that are yoked, right? And they're pulling the wagon. When both

00:40:32.000 are pulling equally, that wagon is just going to keep moving. But if one fells, the other one pulls

00:40:38.340 and the other one's not, there's a disconnect there. And suddenly the wagon can't move forward

00:40:43.300 and progress because it's not equally yoked. Yeah. And so, you know, if you have anchors in your life,

00:40:49.080 they're only holding you back from moving forward. So once you can raise anchor and set sail,

00:40:53.520 you have all the opportunity to take on the seas of life and be able to overcome the waves that

00:40:58.620 might come to, or the obstacles that lie ahead that you can't really, and you know, like battle

00:41:03.540 plans, like you create a battle plan. And I remember Jocko talks about in his book, Extreme Ownership

00:41:08.300 in Sills. And when they were fighting in Iraq, he's like, one thing you can always plan for

00:41:14.100 is the unplanned. You can create a battle plan of what they wanted to accomplish in battle,

00:41:19.880 but you can never foresee contingencies. Well, not only do you have a battle plan,

00:41:23.920 other people have a battle plan too. Yeah. And you don't know what it is.

00:41:26.900 And you don't know what it is. And so once you meet that contingency that was unforeseen,

00:41:30.840 it becomes, what's the pivot? How do we overcome this? Right. And those are obstacles that are placed

00:41:35.500 in our way every day. So either you address the obstacle directly, flip it upside down and overcome

00:41:40.100 it. You work to get around it. But if you allow the obstacle to be your own demise, it's what's

00:41:45.720 going to set you back. And so people are like, well, my business isn't getting traction.

00:41:48.540 And I'm not getting the results or I'm not, I don't have enough time. And a lot of times you

00:41:53.120 can track that back to, if there's a spouse involved, the spouse may be like, I just listen,

00:41:57.540 you go do this. Yes. But I'm totally like, you make this work. Right. And that's the anchor.

00:42:03.400 I think that's a mistake though. A hundred percent. I mean, it's like,

00:42:05.260 I know that when I struggle in the business, I don't immediately want to tell my wife because

00:42:09.820 yeah, maybe it's a pride thing. Maybe it's an ego thing. Maybe it's like a sheltering her from that

00:42:14.800 stuff thing. But at the same time, like if I can show her when we're winning and show her

00:42:21.660 when we've fallen behind and include her in the process, she's not out there guessing about what's

00:42:28.260 going on. Oh no.

00:42:29.520 Like, have you ever been in a situation where maybe you used to like this girl and she wouldn't call

00:42:35.160 you back? Right. And so you're just sitting there like, well, does she not like me? Does she,

00:42:39.880 you know, and say like, you're playing this head game over here. And I think a lot of guys do that

00:42:44.300 to their wives when it comes to business. Your wife's over here. You're trying to run this business,

00:42:49.780 start this thing, do whatever it is you're trying to do. You won't communicate with her.

00:42:53.360 And she's over here like, well, what's going on? Like, are we making enough money? Is enough income?

00:42:58.360 How's he doing? How's the family doing? Are we going to be okay? And I see that as a pitfall for a lot,

00:43:03.520 a lot of entrepreneurs or aspiring entrepreneurs.

00:43:06.160 A hundred percent. You look at, I think the one word that you said there that Jocko talks about in

00:43:11.620 his book that I love is for a plan to come together, to be successful in battle. The one thing that will

00:43:19.780 optimize the mission is communication. If you do not have communication, so you can sit here and you

00:43:25.420 can say, well, it's not being successful or it's not working or I'm, you know, and you kind of put

00:43:28.900 yourself in a bucket over here and your wife or your spouse or your significant others over here,

00:43:32.900 and you're not telling her the struggles. You're not telling her the trials and you're not

00:43:36.900 leaning on her for some help because they're extremely helpful when you go to them and say,

00:43:40.960 I'm having a bad day. I mean, all they want to do is make you feel better, you know,

00:43:44.820 and sometimes we need that. But when you're not communicating, it's hard to win and it's hard

00:43:49.440 to succeed because communication is a key to success. The more communication you have,

00:43:53.760 the more transparency, the more the other understands where you're at or where they're at.

00:43:57.320 And you're, you're able to come together and say, okay, we're struggling. How do we overcome this?

00:44:01.520 Yeah. And then you communicate those things and you execute and then you win.

00:44:04.920 Why do you think people have, and I think this is, I think more men than women. I mean,

00:44:10.180 we have a hard time communicating. Oh yeah. Is it just like, sometimes I think, well,

00:44:14.000 they should just know what, like, why do I need to explain that? I think that each of us,

00:44:20.020 and I find this and myself, and you've probably seen this too, Ryan, as, as men, we kind of have

00:44:27.280 this tendency to say, I have to be the provider, the protector, I'm the man. And so I got to know

00:44:33.080 things. And so it's hard for us to be submissive or humble to lean on our wives or others and say,

00:44:40.300 I don't know, or to look inferior or to look weak. We all want to be strong. I think that's just part of

00:44:46.260 human nature and mankind is since the beginning is to, to be that leader, to be that strength,

00:44:52.940 to be the one that can do anything. And so when it comes to like communication, women,

00:44:58.880 that's all they want to do. They want to talk. They want to learn. They want to, they want to

00:45:02.740 know your fills. They want to open you up and you're like, you want to be connected. And we're

00:45:06.740 sitting here like, this is a great example. My dad said this one time, he said, he said,

00:45:10.920 this was the greatest example of how men and women communicate. So a lady goes to the pool with her

00:45:15.980 friends, comes back to her husband and says, Oh my gosh, Becky's doing this. And ends up

00:45:20.060 spending an hour telling him everything that's going on in every girl's life that she spent

00:45:23.520 that week or that day with at the pool. And then the husband goes on a golfing trip with like six

00:45:28.900 of his buddies, comes back and the wife goes and asks a question. So how did it go? What's going on

00:45:34.420 in everybody's life? And he says, well, Kevin got a new driver and we can spend an entire day

00:45:41.520 golfing together and like not really talk or go into much things and just enjoy that time.

00:45:46.320 And so I think men and women are so different. And so that can become a barrier for a lot of

00:45:51.520 success and entrepreneurs or people. If you can't, if us as men can't overcome that obstacle to be

00:45:56.360 able to be open and communicate and transparent with our spouse, if we're pursuing a business or

00:46:01.580 trying to, to, you know, do something, then it's going to be difficult to succeed because you're not

00:46:06.840 equally yoked. You're not working together side by side. And they always use the term like behind

00:46:11.760 every good man as a woman. And I always say, no, my, my wife is right next to me. You can use the

00:46:16.780 analogy that she's pushing, but I feel like if we're those old pioneer carts that they used to

00:46:20.880 push and pull, like she's right there with me in the front and we're pulling together and we're

00:46:24.260 pulling the weight and we're moving forward. And that's where I think in my own personal life,

00:46:28.000 I've been able to see great success is because my wife has been willing to struggle. Like you said,

00:46:32.980 with me through those tough times in order to us to overcome and see the better times.

00:46:37.300 Does your wife stay at home? Yeah. She's a stay at home mom.

00:46:39.800 Same with my wife. And I think that's probably more of a struggle because she can't actively go

00:46:47.120 out and do anything about it. I mean, she could, but with the arrangement that you guys had,

00:46:50.840 like the dynamic of the family, she, she doesn't, I think about coaching, for example,

00:46:54.220 in a lot of ways, coaching my son's teams is significantly harder than it was ever playing

00:46:59.460 because when I was playing and we're behind or something was going wrong, I could alter the

00:47:05.360 outcome, not single-handedly, but I could do my part to alter the outcome. But as a coach on the

00:47:11.480 sideline, there's nothing I can do, right? Like I just have to hope that my coaching prevails or I

00:47:16.960 can inspire somehow. And I think for anybody who's a stay at home mom, I think they're probably very much

00:47:23.260 the same. They're sidelined in a way from the business side of things.

00:47:27.080 And they're the most underpaid workforce in America.

00:47:29.700 Oh, a hundred percent. A hundred percent.

00:47:31.460 I'll come home after. And Mountain Ops, being, being an owner of a business and a thriving business

00:47:37.080 has its own struggles and stresses because you're trying to help mentor and help others and help

00:47:44.100 your team win and succeed. And so it takes a lot of your energy and a lot of your time and

00:47:47.520 you have to sacrifice a lot to get ahead. And you come home and you look at your wife and all she

00:47:53.020 wants to do is just like talk to you and escape from being a coach or a mom on the sidelines with

00:47:58.220 the kids. Cause she's not having any adult interaction. And I remember when my wife had

00:48:03.740 me with our three children, she's like, all right, I'm going to go spend a weekend with my friends

00:48:07.260 and you're going to stay home. And I'm thinking, I got this easy. This is so easy. Dude, I got all

00:48:12.480 these employees like that I have to deal with. Like these are three little kids. Like I got to do is feed

00:48:16.040 them, make them happy and then put them to bed. Like this is a piece of cake. I wanted to put a gun to my

00:48:21.560 head about halfway through the day. You know, I mean, it was like, holy cow, what you go through

00:48:26.020 in a day and what you sacrifice so that I can sacrifice for our family to provide. That is the

00:48:32.480 merited in so much of equality in what our wives do at home to provide for our children, to raise and

00:48:39.920 rear them. And we basically come in at halftime sometimes and expect to play. And, you know, we try

00:48:45.300 to show up for practice, but you have to hand it to them. So I think, I think as you bring up that

00:48:50.380 point, Ryan, about when a person has a desire to do something, when somebody is unhappy, when

00:48:55.800 they're unhappy and they say, I want to become happy and they make a decision, that decision is

00:48:58.920 like, well, I either need to change my job, go start a business or do something different or

00:49:02.620 something hard. If they are paired up with a spouse, man, you've got to get her on board, but you

00:49:09.120 gotta earn that trust. You've got to earn her trust and her respect and her willingness to

00:49:17.140 saddle up with you and ride off into the sunset together. Cause if you don't have that, it's

00:49:22.020 going to be really hard to be able to succeed and move forward and become happy and overcome that

00:49:28.020 unhappiness. If you don't have the other person there with you. Yeah. I mean, I a hundred percent

00:49:32.560 agree. And I think that's a lot of the struggle that guys go through is that they haven't found a

00:49:37.960 way to get the other party on board and they think it's their wife's fault. Oh yeah. Like, Oh,

00:49:43.940 if only my wife understood, we'll help her understand. Oh, if only she saw what I was

00:49:49.220 struggling with, that's on you too. Like you need to show her that you need to help her see that

00:49:54.580 ownership and you've got to say to yourself, Hey, that's so true. I love that point. You just

00:50:01.120 brought up, look at all that I'm doing. Look at all my hard things. A lot of guys are not willing

00:50:05.360 to look on the other side and see how hard they're doing. Because again, as guys, we're just like,

00:50:09.920 look at, I don't want to talk to you about this. Like this is, it's just been a hard day or it just

00:50:13.740 sucks. And so you just need to get over it. And I think I've been married nine years. So there's a

00:50:19.760 lot of guys listening to this podcast, like this guy's a rookie, you know, like he hasn't even hit

00:50:23.240 that 10. Yeah. Cause we just celebrated 14. So 14 years, Ryan. So you've got so much and you know,

00:50:28.820 we, we could bring people on the podcast, been married for 20 years. People have been married

00:50:32.280 for 30 years. You find a common thread where it's the people that are like, what has made your

00:50:39.380 marriage so successful and happy? It's like, well, I love her and I respect her and I treat

00:50:45.320 her with love. I sacrifice for her. I, I talk to her. I listened to her. And it's, it's like anybody

00:50:52.060 you want to have a good friend or a person in your life. There's a book that I just read recently.

00:50:57.300 It's called give and take. And in life, there's three types of people. There's a giver, a taker

00:51:02.200 and a matcher. And so a giver is somebody that obviously gives often. And there's some of the

00:51:07.380 most successful people in life because they give, but where givers get taken advantage of

00:51:11.920 or become unsuccessful is because they give so much. They, they don't know at their own expense.

00:51:16.460 They don't know when to shut that off and say, okay, I need to take now. And takers, all they are,

00:51:22.060 they just take. So everything is just, it's like the pirate code, like take everything and leave

00:51:25.640 nothing. Like I'm just going to take, take, take, take. And a matcher is somebody who just says,

00:51:29.600 well, I will do this as long as you do this. The book really dives into the principles of our lives

00:51:35.720 and how these different three types of personalities, when you find balance in being

00:51:39.980 able to give and take in life, that is when you rise and elevate to your highest potential.

00:51:45.440 A person that just continues to give while giving of the goodness of their heart will be taken

00:51:49.700 advantage of, will give so much and then never take for themselves. And then it's hard because

00:51:53.980 then they have nothing else. They have nothing left because they've given it all away.

00:51:57.720 Right. Then we call this the proverbial nice guy, right? Where he's, you know, he thinks that the

00:52:02.320 best way to get ahead is to be nice and to be overly giving. And you can only do that for so long

00:52:09.160 before you get taken advantage by a, by a woman or a business partner or a client or whoever comes

00:52:14.660 into your life. And that other person might not even be devious, right? They may not be underhanded

00:52:20.940 trying to manipulate and purposely take, they may be that, but they might not be, but a giver can't

00:52:26.560 even recognize that. I mean, they just get worked over. We see this all the time.

00:52:32.120 All the time. And so that giver and taker mentality is something that takes a lot of

00:52:37.920 time for each of us to develop. And you can see traits because people who are takers are big

00:52:41.860 manipulators. Like they manipulate to get what they want. And so they'll manipulate their wives or

00:52:46.020 their friends or their colleagues or people. And they're eventually just taking and taking and

00:52:49.280 taking. And they end up burning a lot of bridges and they end up not having a lot of people around

00:52:53.860 them. And so they end up living a miserable, miserable life.

00:52:56.540 It seems like a, like a taker would be somebody who could potentially enjoy success, but it's

00:53:02.960 very short lived. And it's constantly from environment to environment, relationship to

00:53:09.080 a relationship because they burn that, that bridge, like you said. So like, well, that's done

00:53:14.320 because I exhausted all of the resources from that source. Now I'm going to go over here to this

00:53:19.680 new pool of resources until I exhaust that one and move and move and move.

00:53:23.420 A hundred percent. And you get, so finding that balance in life of learning how to give

00:53:29.520 and take is something that all of us need to work on because as I've had to develop that,

00:53:35.140 because truthfully, you know, I sit here before you, a man who in my marriage in the last nine

00:53:40.800 years, probably the first six years, truthfully, the first six years of my life was, I was just

00:53:44.860 a big taker. I just, you know, well, I need to do this business or I'm going to do this,

00:53:48.400 or I'm going to go hang out with my friends or I'm going to do this and I deserve this.

00:53:51.360 And it was all this me, me, me, me, me. It was all everything that was, I could take

00:53:55.700 from the relationship or from the marriage. I did. Was I giving back? Yes. Was I giving

00:54:00.680 back in the way I should? No. I learned really quick as we start to hit kind of a rocky point

00:54:05.860 in our marriage. When we hit kind of that six years, I started a business. We built a home.

00:54:10.240 We're having kids. Like everything is coming and culminating to this one moment. I hit a waking

00:54:15.740 point in my life where I saw what I was doing to her. She was so unhappy, Ryan. She was miserable.

00:54:22.740 She would voice to me. She's like, you don't even talk to me. You don't even communicate. You're not

00:54:26.440 even on the same page. You're a bulldozer. In the relationship, I'm providing thoughts and ideas

00:54:31.560 and opinions. And you're literally telling me they all are not worth anything. And when you just need

00:54:35.260 to do this. And I literally would just overrun her. I was taking everything and not giving anything

00:54:39.880 back. And it got to a point where we had those very uncomfortable discussions of, I don't know

00:54:46.120 that I want to be with you anymore. And this is coming from her. And I'm sitting there going,

00:54:50.360 well, why? Look at what we've done. Look at everything I've done. Yeah. We got a home. We've

00:54:55.260 got kids. I've got this successful business. I have all these great things for us. We're building

00:54:58.940 a great life. Why aren't you happy? And it literally came down to me that I was just taking so much and I

00:55:05.360 wasn't giving back to her. And she honestly was doing nothing but giving. She was just giving and

00:55:12.700 giving and giving and feeding me and allowing me to do what needed to be done. And I was never

00:55:17.180 reciprocating that. So her problem was too much giving. Your problem was too much taking. Oh yeah.

00:55:21.660 It was so unbalanced. How did you guys work through that? And how do you find that balance now?

00:55:26.360 Honestly, what really helped with that balance was Mountain Ops. How so? So like here at Mountain

00:55:32.920 Ops, like our true belief and our why statement is in everything we do, we improve the lives of

00:55:38.760 individuals and families. And so as a business, whether it's a product, it's hat, it's shirt,

00:55:44.400 it's a challenge, it's an opportunity. It doesn't matter anything that leaves the doors of this

00:55:49.420 business, this place, that question is always asked. Is this improving an individual's life or

00:55:55.100 a family's life? And if not, then why are we doing it? And we shouldn't do it. Then we just toss it

00:55:59.620 aside. But if it accomplishes the mission and the goal and the desires, then we move forward with it.

00:56:04.280 What would be an idea that maybe you guys have had where you're like, no, this doesn't accomplish

00:56:09.400 our mission? Yeah. There's some truth in this. So when we started Mountain Ops, there was a lot

00:56:14.620 that we had to do. Have you heard of the book Simon Sinek wrote called Start With Why? Yeah.

00:56:20.040 I've read that book like three times. I freaking love that book. And Simon talks about in that book,

00:56:24.380 businesses and individuals and successful and non-successful and the reasons why. And he really

00:56:31.120 highlights a few different things. He talks about how there's different companies who manipulate

00:56:35.320 to get what they want. And then there's companies or individuals that truly inspire.

00:56:41.840 And so what I saw is in the early beginnings of Mountain Ops, while our why was strong, to get ahead,

00:56:49.020 what we had to do is just like offer discounts and throw things out here and do this. And so

00:56:52.620 we started to flood the market with product and do what we had planned to do. And we hit a tipping

00:56:58.740 point. And it was so interesting because as we're hitting that tipping point, I was also hitting a

00:57:02.960 tipping point in my relationship. And we sat down as Casey Trevor and I sat down and we talked about

00:57:08.380 it and we said, you know what? We have built something great here. We have a product, we have a

00:57:13.400 brand, we have a lifestyle, we have a community, and we have stewardship over these amazing people who

00:57:18.800 are a part of this. And I think we're doing ourselves a complete disservice by almost manipulating too

00:57:25.220 much. So like when you're marketing, manipulation is just purely like buy this because of the sell or

00:57:30.860 do this or do that or get this or get that. And you're just always running those and companies are

00:57:34.880 doing those to manipulate sales or that. And you look at companies like Apple who are inspire. He uses

00:57:40.820 them as an example. Steve Jobs, you know, their inspiration and their why statement was,

00:57:45.080 you know, in everything we do, we challenge the status quo. They've done that in every industry

00:57:49.880 they've entered. They've changed the status quo of that industry by the products they made and

00:57:53.740 why they developed them and how they developed them. And in the book, it talks about working from

00:57:57.920 the inside out of the three circles, which is why at the center, how, and then what. And so why we knew

00:58:05.160 what we were doing, we knew that we needed to right size the business and move away from a

00:58:11.440 manipulating factor into an inspiring factor, providing more education, more information,

00:58:15.760 more content, um, more science behind the product showing because people were asking the question

00:58:20.340 like, well, this, I feel good. It's amazing. I love this brand, but like, I want to know more,

00:58:24.360 give me more depth. I feel it's really shallow. And that's where we're able to, to really change

00:58:29.280 and inspire more people. And that's when the business really hit its next wave was we right size

00:58:36.180 ourselves to say, let's focus on our why let's tell people how they can accomplish that and what

00:58:41.700 the things are that they need to do that. And so we operated from the inside out.

00:58:45.960 You can feel that I think in a business too, when the consumer wants to be part of the organization,

00:58:51.380 not just an owner of the product or the service that that company is, is offering. I think you guys

00:58:58.020 have done a great job. I spent a little time with, uh, John Dudley with knock on, he's done a great

00:59:03.240 job. Like you, you can feel it in the community and the people that want to be around him,

00:59:08.280 this organization where it's like, it goes so much deeper than just selling a product.

00:59:13.820 So deeper.

00:59:14.520 And you could, I think you could be successful just selling a product, but I think it's a lot

00:59:18.300 more fulfilling and rewarding for you. And certainly the people that you're working to serve

00:59:23.260 when you create an organization that people want to be part of.

00:59:29.500 Well, and you brought it up earlier, Ryan, that give or taker mentality. If a person is

00:59:33.580 always taking it's short lived. If a person is always manipulating, right? A business or

00:59:38.200 company or corporation, same thing. It's not going to last very long, but when you believe

00:59:43.300 in why you are doing what you're doing and you're able to inspire others to believe in that same

00:59:49.280 belief, that is when you have succeeded as a business to truly, not only as a business,

00:59:54.320 but as a person to be able to know your purpose, your desire, why you're doing what you're doing.

01:00:00.360 Then you, then you begin to figure out how you accomplish that and then what you then do with

01:00:05.100 that. And, and when Simon Sinek talks about that, it's, it's been something that book has actually

01:00:09.140 really transformed my life. The two books that kind of for my marriage and my business really

01:00:14.220 kind of helped me get some good perspective was Jocko's book on extreme ownership, because I was

01:00:20.460 always projecting things to her, taking things from her, just saying it was her fault instead of

01:00:24.880 taking extreme ownership and saying, you know what? We're failing because me, not because of you,

01:00:29.480 because of me, because we're a team. And if we're failing, it's not because of you. It's because

01:00:33.860 we're failing together. Once I did that, our marriage took a big turn. I started to realize

01:00:39.540 what I was doing wrong. The giver and taker book really helped show me how much I needed to balance

01:00:45.080 out my life and understand that I was doing a lot of taking and not a lot of giving, giving in some

01:00:49.880 areas, taking in others, balancing that out in business and in life, help right size my marriage.

01:00:55.540 And then also start with why Simon does such a good job at really helping you understand.

01:01:01.380 And it's a book I highly recommend people read because it really helps you start at the core

01:01:06.960 of anything before you're going to start a business, before you're going to take that risk,

01:01:09.880 before you're going to do something that is totally uncertain and might be a little bit scary.

01:01:15.700 You need to know why you're doing it. Just like you with your podcast,

01:01:19.440 Ryan, I know from listening to your podcast, talking with people who know you, talking to you,

01:01:24.720 yourself, you knew why you want to start Order of Man. You knew and everybody who follows you knows

01:01:31.700 and can feel it because you truly believe in inspiring and helping other people to better

01:01:38.300 themselves, to stop making excuses of life and take ownership for their life and make something

01:01:45.460 of their life. Just like this podcast. We hope today that those who listen to this will be inspired

01:01:51.680 to do something different today than they did yesterday and to be better tomorrow than they

01:01:56.360 were today. I think that once you understand why, that is why you've been successful at this.

01:02:03.740 That is why Mountain Ops has been successful at what it's done. And that is why right now for me,

01:02:09.100 I can, I can confidently say that I'm having a successful marriage, but it's been hard.

01:02:14.640 It hasn't been easy. And there's been a lot that I've had to swallow and change, but it's all ego.

01:02:22.440 Once you can eliminate that ego and you can, you know, cause we all have to check that every day

01:02:28.020 because every single person on earth has ego. And the more that we muddy up that floor, we got to grab

01:02:32.780 the mop and we got to clean the floor. That's something that, you know, isn't easy to do, but when we can

01:02:37.760 channel and understand and mitigate that ego and allow humility to come forward, we have all the

01:02:44.320 opportunity to be teachable, to learn, to change, to grow and to experience life and to really work

01:02:50.180 towards achieving our own personal potentials. You know, it's really interesting as you talk about

01:02:54.560 taking ownership and checking the ego is what I know I used to do. And I know through experience

01:03:01.460 and the messages I get that other men are doing the same thing is they'll say, well, yeah, I am

01:03:07.320 working on myself, but, and that, but as always, but she's doing this and she's doing that. And

01:03:13.320 she's not this way. And she's not that way. I'm like, look, that might be true. You might be

01:03:19.240 absolutely correct. In fact, you probably are everybody, including your wife and you have things

01:03:24.960 to work on. The challenge is, is there's nothing you can do about her. The only thing that you can

01:03:31.880 do is about you is fixing yourself. And so I hear a lot of guys who, who talk about leadership and

01:03:38.300 they want to be quote unquote influential. And to me, I hear that. I think, well, the only way to be

01:03:43.280 more influential, whether it's with your wife or your kids or a business partner or your clients

01:03:48.680 is to be influential. Meaning you have to do something within yourself so that other people

01:03:56.200 choose voluntarily choose to be influenced by you, by you. So yeah, her behavior may be off. That might

01:04:04.560 be true. But if you can change yourself, the goal hopefully is that she'll be influenced by that

01:04:10.620 and maybe correct some of the behavior voluntarily on her side and vice versa. I'm not saying it's always

01:04:16.500 going to be her, but I'm saying focus on ourselves, focus on us and things have a way of working

01:04:22.000 themselves out. Yeah. I think, you know, oftentimes we as, as humans, it's incredibly infectious to be

01:04:27.980 able to see someone be influenced or inspired by you or by something you've done. Somebody, I mean,

01:04:33.720 you see the messages that you get. Those are such motivating factors in what you're doing because it

01:04:38.860 reinforces that what you've done in your life to, to really course correct or to better yourself

01:04:45.780 has allowed you to help others to do the same. Yeah. And I think what I've, I've seen in,

01:04:52.000 you know, the eight years that I've been an entrepreneur and doing businesses, I've seen

01:04:57.280 that all of us as humans have opinions, ideas, thoughts, desires, all these things we all have

01:05:04.720 a right and a privilege to own and have. Where I think we get a little bit muddy is when people

01:05:11.440 are so free with saying, you know, I'm going to share my ideas, my opinions and my views and all

01:05:17.080 these things. And I'm going to change these people or I have desires to, to inspire others or to go

01:05:21.980 lead and to go motivate. And those are all good, good quality, good traits. Sure. But it goes back

01:05:27.940 to your point, Ryan, which is before you can change someone else, you have to change yourself first.

01:05:32.880 It's a lot easier to just go out and like share your ideas and your opinions and tell people, Hey,

01:05:37.160 yeah, you should do this or go do that. But if you have not done it yourself and experienced it,

01:05:41.720 then it's hard to get other people to inspire themselves. But because of what you're doing,

01:05:47.440 because humans are, we can't lie to each other. That's one thing we'll all never be able to do

01:05:53.180 because the more you try to hide who you truly are or what you do, eventually life has a cycle

01:06:00.220 where you you're found out. Right, right. And so the more that you are who you are, the more that

01:06:05.020 you better yourself, the more that you take, you look in the mirror and say, you know what? I need

01:06:08.520 to change me. Once you do that, then you can help those who are having a hard time changing

01:06:14.480 themselves. Well, it's funny because these are the same people who will say, well, I can't get

01:06:19.240 traction. People aren't listening to me. It's like, would you listen to you? Like if you were

01:06:24.460 listening to the other end of that guy on the podcast or the guy in the YouTube video or whatever,

01:06:28.940 would you listen to that individual? If the answer is no, then why do you expect other people

01:06:34.160 to like fix yourself? We were talking about that this morning at the gym. It's like, you know,

01:06:39.020 I think you weighed what, 30 pounds more? It was so pathetic, Ryan. I, here I am an owner

01:06:44.900 of a supplement nutritional health company. That's why I say all of us are subject to

01:06:50.260 obstacles in our lives or excuses, no matter where we are in life, no matter what success

01:06:55.480 we've seen, you're, you've never made it, right? You've never arrived. There is no made it. There

01:06:59.000 is no made it in this life. It's only continuing to try and make it. I fell off the wagon during holiday

01:07:05.620 season. We went into show season. We had all these things going on. The business was continuing to

01:07:09.780 thrive and grow. And there was a lot of stress and things like that. And it all compounded over

01:07:13.580 time to a lot of weight. I hit 213. It was so pathetic. I looked at myself in the mirror and

01:07:20.860 I'm sitting there going, I'm an owner of a company that's called Mountain Ops that believes in

01:07:26.020 improving the lives of individuals and families. And we do that through resourceful things like

01:07:30.160 education, information products, things that can empower a person to take ownership of their life and

01:07:34.800 change. And here I am looking in the mirror and I'm not happy. It's not even just because of the

01:07:39.420 physical aspect. It's the mental aspect too. My confidence was failing. I was having some issues

01:07:43.740 and I looked at myself and I looked at my wife and I looked at my family and my kids and my business

01:07:48.920 and everything. And it was just, I had a moment like we all do. I was failing. I was falling. I wasn't

01:07:55.120 doing hard things. Like I was doing some hard things, but I was making excuses to not do the other

01:07:59.240 things I should be doing. I wasn't finding balance. So I hit 213 and we do these 90 day challenges at

01:08:04.400 Mountain Ops. And so I have a friend, Eric Chesser has a company called the Hush and you know,

01:08:08.700 he could see it cause we're best friends. He's like, dude, Jordan, you're off. I can see it.

01:08:11.940 And I did actually a really good job at hiding my weight. I think guys, some of us guys have a

01:08:15.780 good, we can distribute that in different places. Yeah. I can't. Mine just like sinks right to the

01:08:19.960 gut. Mine was like my legs, my neck, like my arms. Like I kind of distributed well. So when I tell

01:08:24.240 people like you were 213, I was like, yeah, I wore baggy clothes. I'd pull my underwear up and try and hide

01:08:29.000 my tummy. You know, it was doing all the cheat codes. I made the conscious decision. I said, I'm going to do this.

01:08:33.500 I'm going to own, I'm going to take back some ownership right now. And I'm, and before I can

01:08:36.440 sit here and tell any of the people that I work with that they should go to the gym or work out

01:08:41.520 or tell any of these people online, you should do these things. I could keep speaking to marketing

01:08:45.720 or entrepreneurship. These are things that I was confident in and I was doing, but I could never

01:08:50.260 invite or ask someone, Hey, you should go do an exercise or a workout when I wasn't even doing it.

01:08:55.180 That's when it hit me. And I said, you need to make some changes. And so, you know, I addressed my diet.

01:09:00.320 I addressed my eating. I found time. And I think one of the biggest excuses that you and I were

01:09:05.300 talking about this morning is people always say, I don't have time. And what I shared with you was,

01:09:10.820 well, then you've got to find that time. And so there's going to be some sacrifices you're going

01:09:13.940 to need to make in order to find that time. If you can't find it already. But I did, I found time.

01:09:18.180 I said, I'm going to wake up earlier. I'm going to exercise. I'm going to read a self-development

01:09:21.680 book. I'm going to get into my day. I'm going to eat right. I'm going to start this process.

01:09:25.400 And now that I have routine, I do it every day. And so I'm now, I hit 183,

01:09:32.520 just a little over 90 days later. I feel great. I'm strong mentally, physically. I've got purpose.

01:09:40.040 I'm happy. And it's just amazing that transition when you start to take ownership again of your life.

01:09:45.980 And now I feel a little bit more comfortable because I had some guys working here who weren't,

01:09:52.020 we're doing the same thing. I was, they were like, well, I work at Mountain House,

01:09:54.900 but I'm not going to go to the gym or I don't want to do this. And I sat down with them. And

01:09:57.860 after, you know, I had kind of had this somewhat of a transformation, I said, well, why? And

01:10:02.000 obviously there was a lot of doubts, fears, or insecurities, and they didn't feel like they

01:10:06.460 were capable of things. And I didn't feel like I could invite them to do things earlier, but I felt

01:10:12.280 confident that I could sit in front of them and say, you know what? I promise you that if you do these

01:10:15.600 things, these will be the results and you will see a change in your life and it will happen.

01:10:19.200 Yeah. Because I had experienced it.

01:10:21.380 Right. Because you're an integrity. I think that's the difference, you know,

01:10:24.280 to go back to that conversation about influence. I think if you're not as influential as you hope

01:10:29.820 you could be or want to be, it's because you're lacking integrity in some area of your life. Like,

01:10:34.700 like you want to be fit and yet you're not doing the things required to be fit.

01:10:38.680 A hundred percent.

01:10:39.220 Or you want to run a successful business, yet you're not putting in the hours and the effort

01:10:43.900 and the education in order to achieve that level of success. Or I want to be a great husband,

01:10:48.600 but you're sitting behind your computer watching pornography or, you know, sitting on the couch for

01:10:54.840 three hours every night, watching the game when you should be engaged with your wife and your kids.

01:10:59.520 Yeah. You're not going to be influential when you're behaving that way because you're out of

01:11:03.360 integrity and people can see it. They can feel it. It permeates from you and they just won't follow

01:11:10.080 you.

01:11:10.340 They won't. And that's what I would say kind of in culminating this awesome podcast together. And

01:11:16.040 I just want to thank you so much for coming up here, doing the workout this morning and having

01:11:21.640 this discussion. This is why, and I tell people this all the time, they ask like, how do I get

01:11:27.960 out of my rut? I'm like, you got to surround yourself with people like Ryan. You got to surround

01:11:32.580 yourself with people like Brian Call and my brother and the people here. You've got to find

01:11:37.240 people who are positive and people who not only believe in themselves, but believe in you.

01:11:43.300 Because the more you hang out with people who challenge you on things like trying to change

01:11:48.040 your life and do different things, people who challenge you on the decisions you're making or,

01:11:52.220 or say, going to the gym is stupid or reading those books is dumb. You don't need that. Just go

01:11:56.180 watch the game. Like these are people who are influencing your life that are only anchors and

01:12:01.640 holding you back from raising cell and being able to set off across the sea into a, you know,

01:12:07.240 a better life. And I've found in my life, the one thing that I feel like if anybody listened to this

01:12:14.160 podcast, if you've listened to Ryan and I talked today, I think the overtone that I've, I've felt

01:12:19.860 from both you and I today and something that my dad always taught me and it's, it was culture in the

01:12:25.980 Harbertson home was your attitude determines your altitude. And so have a good altitude. And that's

01:12:33.880 something that I've always lived by in my life is in everything we do. Our attitude is going to really

01:12:38.080 determine the outcome of a lot of things. Attitude is correlated with desires. Your desires have to be

01:12:44.520 stronger than your fears and doubts. And for people, if they want to do hard things or to, to be able to

01:12:51.080 overcome obstacles in life, it's very important that you not only have a good attitude, that you have

01:12:56.900 strong, true desires, but that you know why. And that for me has been a pinnacle thing is, is I've lived

01:13:05.280 my life in a way in which I remember why I'm doing what am I doing? I remember why I'm a father or why

01:13:10.380 I'm a husband or why I'm a business owner or why we do what we do at Mountain Ops. It has been what has

01:13:16.820 been able to allow me to raise anchor and honestly sacrifice and put a lot of people that were nothing but

01:13:26.240 dead weight behind me. Because I think that's hard for people when you have friends or people that are

01:13:31.260 close to you. Listen, if those people are not helping you to be a better person, they're not

01:13:36.120 get them out of your life. Right. They're not helping you. They're not helping themselves. You sticking

01:13:40.400 around isn't helping them. Like it's not. Nobody's winning here. We're wasting time and we're wasting

01:13:45.480 energy and potential. Right. And so that's what I think for anybody listening today, that would be

01:13:52.120 my invitation to all of us is no matter what you're doing in your life right now, at this very

01:13:57.640 point that you're listening to this podcast with Ryan and I, ask yourself the question of why you

01:14:03.740 were doing what you were doing today. Why, if you're not happy with your job, well, why? And if you want

01:14:09.800 to go do something, well, why? Find out and be able to compile a very strong why. And then once you know

01:14:19.120 why you want to do what you want to do, couple that with a good attitude, a strong desire, some hard

01:14:26.220 work and a lot of sacrifice. And I think you'll be able to see the changes you need in your life that

01:14:32.100 will merit you more happiness. Success is defined in many ways, but you can define success in your own

01:14:39.220 life when you're willing to look at yourself, change and make change what needs to be done in order to take

01:14:46.260 ownership of your life. But seriously, if anyone's listening to this podcast and you are unhappy,

01:14:51.040 that is your fault. That is nobody else's fault. You cannot sit here and you cannot say that,

01:14:56.960 well, I'm unhappy because of who I work with or my job or anything. Right. Change your job.

01:15:02.040 You are unhappy because of you. And so when you're willing to change your attitude, then you will start

01:15:07.060 to see a change in altitude and you will live a higher, more exciting, happier, prolonged life that will

01:15:13.620 be something that you can look back on and say, man, I lived a good life. Because we've got one of

01:15:19.320 them to live, Ryan. One life. Live a good one. Right on, dude. I think we'll call it there. It's

01:15:24.920 been a good discussion. I do want to ask you a couple of questions. Can't let you off on the hook

01:15:28.920 on this one. I didn't even prepare you for it, but I think you got it. And that question is,

01:15:33.720 what does it mean to be a man? I think to be a man, it means, I think it's,

01:15:41.700 I can be defined in so many ways. It's to be humble. I think the order of man in many ways

01:15:49.700 is, as we talked about earlier, is to be strong, to be tough, to be the man that knows it all and

01:15:55.400 all that. And the more manlier people that I've met in my life, the stronger and tougher and

01:16:01.900 successful people are some of the most humble men I know. And so I think to be a man is to be humble

01:16:09.620 because when we have humility, then we are able to truly achieve manhood because we can grow,

01:16:17.360 we can learn, we can be stronger, we can support, we can provide, we can preside, we can do all these

01:16:22.020 things. But when man has ego, humility is removed and opportunity as a man to succeed and arise to

01:16:32.080 our full potential is almost eliminated completely. So I think to be a man is to be humble.

01:16:38.000 Well said, brother. All right. How do we connect with you? How do we learn more about you? Mountain

01:16:41.940 Ops, all the stuff. So all the things, anybody listening to this podcast, if you guys want to

01:16:47.460 know everything about Mountain Ops, you just ask Ryan. He takes all the supplements, all the products,

01:16:51.220 all the things. Every day. He wears all the hats, all the shirts. You guys have seen, they've seen all

01:16:55.840 my hats, all my shirt. I'm wearing them now. So they, I see people all the time. Where do I get that

01:16:59.940 hat? Every time it's the, uh, the one that's the most popular is it's the black and camo one

01:17:06.280 with a leather patch. And I get people say like, Oh, I went over there. They're sold out. I'm like,

01:17:11.620 okay. It's a sweet hat. Like, do you want, like, I don't, I don't know what you want me to do.

01:17:15.720 I know a guy that I can call him, but they're still sold out.

01:17:17.800 Exactly. No, it's, if any of you listening want to learn more about Mountain Ops, you can find us

01:17:24.880 at mountainops.com and that's spelled M-T-N-O-P-S.com. It's the abbreviation of mountain and

01:17:32.840 operations. It's Mountain Ops. Find us on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube. You literally type in Mountain

01:17:38.560 Ops to Google and you're just, we're the only Mountain Ops you'll find.

01:17:42.000 Your logo, by the way, is rad. I love it. I think it's so simple, but a lot of people overlook it.

01:17:47.820 Like they won't see the M and the O, I'm sure. And, and it's got the chevrons, right? Which is

01:17:52.980 plays into the military and the ranking system. Like it's a sweet, sweet logo.

01:17:57.420 It's interesting. Like the name, you know, I, I came up with the name for the company

01:18:01.720 and then my business partner came up with the logo. I remember when he introduced it,

01:18:07.840 I actually was like, let's just be simple and just do mountain ops and just do letters and

01:18:12.000 stencil and just be simple. And then he introduced this logo and I honestly, truly, I didn't like it

01:18:16.700 at first. I was like, no, yeah. I was like, let's just be like simple. Like, oh man, I think it's rad.

01:18:20.400 And oh yeah. Oh my gosh. It is incredible because it has, that mark stands for something.

01:18:25.880 Yeah. People like yourself, me, others that are part of this, they're willing to put it on their shirt,

01:18:31.840 put it on a hat on. And that mark stands for being a part of something bigger than ourselves.

01:18:36.960 So yeah, if you guys want to check us out, mountainops.com. I'm on Instagram. If you want

01:18:43.000 to ever follow, I'm not like, I try to be active on social as much as I can. I used to be a lot

01:18:49.520 better at it, but with the business, it's taken a lot of time. And so I try to be active, but you

01:18:54.620 can follow me. My name is Jordan. Last name's Harbertson, or I say son of Harbert, H-A-R-B-E-R-T-S-O-N.

01:19:01.880 But yeah, follow along on the journeys and the experiences, but yeah, go check out Mountain

01:19:06.920 Ops. We'll probably do some sort of giveaway with this podcast. Let's do it. Because like,

01:19:10.840 I don't know, a month ago, you guys sent me like 37 shirts. Dude, I sent you, you're like,

01:19:15.920 uh, Hey man, can I get a couple of shirts and hats? And I was like, you sent me this huge box.

01:19:19.480 Everything. This is awesome. You know? So anyways, I do appreciate you sending that over. I appreciate

01:19:24.120 you, man. It's been cool to come up here. We've known each other for what, about a year or so,

01:19:27.920 maybe about a year and a half, but to come up here, work out, get the tour of your space,

01:19:32.280 which is amazing. Amazing. I want to work here. If I wasn't so far away, I'd probably find a way to

01:19:37.980 weasel my way in here and your team, man. I appreciate what you're doing and appreciate

01:19:42.160 our friendship. I appreciate it too, man. Thank you so much for having me on. And this opportunity,

01:19:46.380 I say we give away because you post this to Instagram and tell people. So maybe what we do is

01:19:53.080 let's give away, actually we'll do this. We'll give five people an opportunity to win a hundred

01:19:57.640 dollar gift card. Okay. What they've got to do is if you've listened to this podcast,

01:20:02.500 then you need to go back to Ryan order of man on the order of man, Instagram page on the picture

01:20:09.240 or the thumbnail of this podcast and comment. What should they comment? Well, what's your tagline?

01:20:15.680 Oh, conquer more, conquer, conquer more. And what that means is you need to comment. What is something

01:20:22.960 you want to conquer more of in life? There you go. So go to order of man's Instagram page. After

01:20:29.120 you've listened to this podcast, we will have the details of how long we're going to allow the giveaway

01:20:34.240 to go probably like for seven days after this podcast goes live. So if you listen to this a

01:20:39.660 couple months from now or whenever this is too late, you're too late, bro, but definitely check us

01:20:44.060 out. So we'll do that. So we'll do five gift cards to five people of a hundred dollars at

01:20:48.500 mountainops.com. Go to order of man, comment on the thumbnail picture of this podcast and tell us

01:20:55.200 one thing in your life you want to conquer more of. Right on. I love it. Let's do it. All right.

01:21:00.420 Gentlemen, there it is. My conversation with Jordan Harbertson. I hope that you took something

01:21:04.540 away from this. If you didn't, I'm not sure if you were even listening because man, this was so

01:21:08.840 powerful. And I know the topic of building a business of meaning and significance

01:21:13.980 is something that is on so many men's minds. And I hope that you're able to take the information

01:21:19.880 that Jordan and I talked about and, and apply it, apply it in your life to help start your

01:21:25.700 business or launch that idea or, or really develop that side hustle or take that business that you've

01:21:32.060 already started to the next level, whatever that looks like. I hope it's helped. Jordan did mention

01:21:36.240 the giveaway that we're going to be doing, which was very, very gracious of him. So make sure you

01:21:40.840 follow those instructions so that you can be entered into the giveaway for those gift cards.

01:21:46.820 Those guys are doing powerful, powerful things. And I'm excited to be able to introduce you to what

01:21:50.960 they're doing. We're going to sign out for the day guys. Again, as always, I always end this with

01:21:56.260 a thank you and appreciation for you. We could not do this without you. I started this business three

01:22:03.220 and a half years ago, and I would not be where we are today. If it weren't you listening in,

01:22:09.580 tuning in, supporting the show, leaving ratings and reviews, purchasing the products and the

01:22:13.860 merchandise, joining our brotherhood, the iron council. If you guys weren't around to do that

01:22:18.220 and supporting us in this way, man, I just wouldn't have been able to build this business to

01:22:22.800 what it is and create this movement, this powerful movement that's impacting millions of men

01:22:28.060 across the planet. So as I always do, I want to leave with a thank you and appreciation for all

01:22:34.540 that you do and the way that you're showing up as men. Guys, until Friday for our Friday field notes,

01:22:40.800 take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

01:22:47.580 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:22:51.240 We invite you to join the order, orderofman.com.

01:22:58.060 Thank you.

Order of Man - August 07, 2018

177： Building a Business of Meaning and Significance ｜ Jordan Harbertson

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