Order of Man - 179： How to Develop More Grit ｜ Brian Call

00:00:00.000 We live in a culture of ultimate softness, but there seems to be a resurgence of men who

00:00:04.660 understand the value of being tough and resilient and gritty. These are the men I aspire to be more

00:00:10.320 like because I understand how crucial it is, as Theodore Roosevelt states, to keep the barbarian 0.65

00:00:15.740 virtues. Today, I'm joined by my friend Brian Call, aka Gritty, to talk about how hunting and

00:00:21.980 connecting with nature makes you tougher, why we need to learn from the men who have gone before,

00:00:26.660 the role parents play in developing fortitude in their children, and how you can develop more grit.

00:00:33.260 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your

00:00:38.280 own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not easily

00:00:44.280 deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you

00:00:51.820 will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:58.600 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and the founder of

00:01:02.580 this podcast, The Order of Man. I want to welcome you to a podcast that I've been working hard on

00:01:08.840 over the past three and a half years that will equip you with the tools and the conversations and the

00:01:13.400 resources and the guidance that you need to become a better man, a better father, a better husband,

00:01:19.340 a better business owner, a better community leader, just a better man in general and in every facet of

00:01:24.560 your life. Obviously, we are interviewing some incredible men, guys like Jocko Willink,

00:01:28.980 Lewis Howes, Andy Frisilla, Grant Cardone, Tim Kennedy. The list just goes on and on with the

00:01:34.460 guys that we are interviewing, and I've got a great one lined up for you today with a friend of

00:01:38.960 mine. His name is Brian Call. We'll get to that here in a minute, but before I do, I just want to,

00:01:44.060 again, welcome you and thank you for being on this mission of reclaiming masculinity in a world that

00:01:50.320 seems to be dismissing it, be rejecting it. And like I talk with guys every day about this is a

00:01:56.840 message that's needed now more than ever. Guys, one of the things that I did want to announce is

00:02:01.180 that last week, we just started a new show every single week. It's the Ask Me Anything. It's going to

00:02:07.240 be released each Wednesday. So you're going to hear it tomorrow. You probably heard it from last week.

00:02:11.320 If you're subscribed to the show, if you're not, do make sure you subscribe and then let me know,

00:02:16.120 give me some feedback. Me and Kip come on the show each and every week to talk about some of

00:02:20.480 the questions that we receive from our Facebook group and Instagram and Twitter, wherever we're

00:02:25.080 doing the social media thing. So if you like the AMA, cool, we'll keep doing it. If not, just let us

00:02:30.180 know, give us some feedback. We're trying to make this a valuable, valuable resource, even more so than

00:02:34.580 it's been for you. And again, equipping you with the tools that you need to step up in your life as a

00:02:39.300 man. So again, give me the feedback on that. Outside of that, check out the store. We've got

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00:03:06.820 guards, which they turned out so good, then make sure you jump on that here in the next week or two.

00:03:10.840 Otherwise you'll miss the boat. You'll miss the opportunity. And then again, outside of that,

00:03:14.640 just subscribe. Oh, and by the way, with a store, head to a store.orderofman.com and you can check it

00:03:20.260 out there. Guys, with that said, and all of those announcements out of the way, I want to introduce

00:03:25.080 you to my guest and friend today, Brian call. He's an avid bow hunter. A lot of you guys know him.

00:03:31.100 He's the founder and host of the gritty podcast. And he talks about all things bow hunting and

00:03:36.060 just ways to develop more grit mentally, emotionally, physically. I've been following

00:03:41.340 him and his work for quite some time. And I finally had the chance to connect with him

00:03:46.080 in this really candid interview. What resonates with me about Brian is his willingness to share

00:03:52.260 not only his victories, but he also shares his setbacks and how he's managed to overcome those

00:03:57.800 things as most of us are trying to do in our own lives. So guys, I hope you enjoy this powerful

00:04:02.260 conversation with a man that I really admire and respect, Mr. Brian call.

00:04:08.140 I'm stoked to be here though, man. It is cool. Like I've been, I think we've been connected for

00:04:13.040 probably a year or so. I haven't actually been in this quote unquote space for too long.

00:04:19.240 Like I was going through my pictures yesterday and the first time I ever picked up a bow

00:04:23.180 was December of 2016. Oh really?

00:04:26.420 Yeah. I went down to a friend in California and we were bored one afternoon and he's like,

00:04:32.420 Hey man, do you want to go shoot a bow? I'm like, yeah, sure. So he's like, we'll just go to the

00:04:36.760 park. I'm like, what do you mean just go to the park? You can go shoot a bow at a park. But it was

00:04:40.820 this park in California. It was this huge park and they had like a little small bow range there and

00:04:45.820 he had his bow and I fell in love with it right away. And that's what I started getting connected

00:04:49.940 with like mountain ops and campaigns and you and all the other guys that are in the world.

00:04:54.420 Oh, when I grew up, there was a Clackamas community college near the house in Oregon city.

00:05:00.040 My dad had a compound. It was kind of new at the time. So this is the 1980s. He came out and at the

00:05:07.440 community college, they had a little archery range. Oh yeah. And so you'd go down there and there was

00:05:12.240 hay bales. Yeah. Hay bales and a mound of dirt behind it. You know, it was all grass and mowed and

00:05:17.820 everything. And there was a little concrete walkway to each target. It was kind of posh. And we stood back

00:05:23.580 and I think it went out to like 50 yards and that was a poke. That was a poke with a, with a,

00:05:27.980 I'm sure. Like a recurve. Yeah. And, uh, he'd take me down there and we'd shoot bows at the

00:05:33.660 community college. Fast forward. I don't know. I think that lasted until about 98. Okay. And then

00:05:40.300 the college is like, yeah, we don't have, we don't do bows. We don't do weapons. We don't have

00:05:44.720 archery ranges. Yeah. Now it's something else. But so did you grow up hunting or it wasn't until

00:05:50.860 college that you actually got into hunting and surgery? So I think my story is pretty common

00:05:56.340 with guys who grew up with it. So since I could remember my dad bow hunted since I was born,

00:06:04.040 I don't remember when, remember when he got into bow hunting, he grew up hunting, rifle hunting in

00:06:08.520 Arizona. He came out of Flagstaff and a lot of big mule deer elk, mostly he deer hunted as a kid.

00:06:15.980 And that was back in the seventies and, and earlier. And they shot giant, giant deer back

00:06:21.720 then. Just, it was the heyday of mule deer. Then he got into archery pretty quick. So right

00:06:27.460 about the time I was born and got way into it and he shot bows and our, and we had all this acreage

00:06:33.860 in the forests of Oregon. In Oregon. Yeah. And he would shoot. So I got into it. I had a little bow

00:06:40.460 and arrow shooting out there with him from the old, as soon as I could pull a bow back.

00:06:44.620 Awesome. Yeah. It's awesome. And so I walked around shooting things with bows and arrows

00:06:48.360 constantly. And then when I got to be 12, I got like a, I could hunt. Right. If I took hunter

00:06:54.160 safety course, take the course. Yep. So I did that, got the safety course and I got me like this recurve

00:07:00.420 bow that had some poundage behind it that could kill stuff. So I started shooting that a lot. And my dad

00:07:06.600 did this archery tournament every year where he'd win like broad heads or a dozen arrows, you know,

00:07:12.340 these like local tournaments that always had prizes and he would win and I would go down there. And

00:07:18.000 then they had like a kid's thing. And I tried my hand at that a couple of times. My mom didn't want 1.00

00:07:22.860 me to do it because she was convinced I was going to lose. She was the tournament, like lose the

00:07:26.520 tournament, get my butt kicked in a tournament. And then you'd feel bad about it. And then I feel bad 0.99

00:07:29.720 about myself. And, and, uh, at the moment I thought I was Robin hood. So she's like, she kind of liked

00:07:34.920 the idea of me still thinking that, right. She want me to like come to, she wanted like the

00:07:39.740 innocent side, but she didn't want to expose you to potential loss and stuff. Yeah. That's before

00:07:43.780 participation trophies too. Right. That was when it was brutally honest, like you suck, you suck.

00:07:49.440 You're dead last. Come back next year. You might win your dozen arrows. And so I got mad and threw a 1.00

00:07:55.680 fit and stuff. I remember being really angry about it and then getting to then compete and did all right.

00:08:01.000 You know, at the end, I think it's good for kids to lose. It is. And she did too. But in this case,

00:08:06.420 she knew how much it meant to me. She's like, let them lose at soccer. Like you were, like you

00:08:10.120 were going to cling to it or something. Yeah. You know, I went out with my dad a few times and we,

00:08:14.740 we hunted and I got my first compound bow at 15, 14 or 15. And that's when I really got serious about

00:08:22.820 hunting. Like before I just followed my dad around, uh, when we went out in the woods and my dad,

00:08:28.060 mostly, he was a truck driver. He was gone a lot. So we ended up, he worked a lot of hours. You know,

00:08:33.720 I'm one of eight kids. I'm the oldest. Oh yeah. And a lot of hours, a lot of other attention,

00:08:38.540 not a big income type of career. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, they had kids early. My parents were 16,

00:08:44.280 17. Oh man. So kids raising kids. Yeah. So you were like the man of the house. That's right.

00:08:50.140 That's right. Absolutely. Like that got pounded in my head. Everything was my fault. If something

00:08:55.420 didn't go right, everything was, it was extreme ownership to the 10th degree. My sisters would 0.50

00:09:01.400 come in and make a royal mess out of the house. And my dad would come home and he's like, why is

00:09:06.060 it messy? Well, cause my sisters, no, no, it's your fault. You should have made sure that this 1.00

00:09:11.560 did not happen. And it's like, okay. But I got my first bow at my compound. And then right about

00:09:19.100 that same time though, man, it was like freshmen, sophomore high school. It was girls and it was

00:09:25.040 basketball job. Maybe I don't know. No job at the time. It was just all sports. Yeah. All chicks 1.00

00:09:31.220 that sort of consumed. It was always going to the beach or going to the lake wakeboarding or water

00:09:37.080 skiing in the summer and fishing hunting bow hunting just sort of died. Yeah. It took just like a,

00:09:43.740 like a back burner a little bit, but we'd always take off with uncles and grandfather and stuff to

00:09:48.860 go rifle hunt in October. Right. Just in the fall, you'd go do the thing. And we go blast some,

00:09:52.960 some animals with rifles and get the meat and come home. And we'd always get jerky or pepperoni made

00:09:58.540 out of it. And then we'd eat it from, it'd be gone in two months. Yeah. You know, we'd go with eight

00:10:02.400 kids. Yeah. We would do. So that was kind of that. And bow hunting was always something I enjoyed. And

00:10:09.360 then fast forward, I went to college. I went on a mission to Japan for a couple of years,

00:10:14.860 went to college all through college. I just fly fished and fished and focused on my books and stuff.

00:10:20.700 And then girls, and then I got married in college, finished school, got a career. And then I kind of

00:10:27.720 went back to bow hunting in 2004. Okay. All right. So I took a long gap between basically 17 years old

00:10:36.000 to like 20, 24, 25. What brought you back to it? Well, I was always something. I was always

00:10:41.600 getting hunting magazines. I was always flipping through all the stories. I was always watching

00:10:45.360 all the bow hunting primo stuff. I just didn't go out and do it. Right. Like it just wasn't a

00:10:50.300 priority at that point. No, I know myself too. I get a little obsessed over an interest. Well,

00:10:54.840 I think archery is actually really easy to get. I don't know what it is. Maybe you can explain it to

00:10:58.400 me. I don't know what it is. I've been that way. I had a little mishap with my bow that you're aware of

00:11:02.620 three weeks ago. So I haven't shot a bow in like three weeks and I'm at home. What do I do? I want

00:11:08.620 to go out and just sling some arrows. I went out last night and I just stacked these arrows. I was

00:11:14.460 shooting 30 yards and all the way back to like 75 and I was by myself. It was a cool evening. The sun

00:11:20.780 was going down. It was just one after the other, after the other. And 40 minutes later, I'm still out

00:11:25.360 there just by myself. Just, I don't know. It's a discipline that takes extreme focus. You completely

00:11:32.400 remove yourself from the world. You're just in that moment. Yeah. I like that you said discipline

00:11:37.360 because that's truly what it is. And I think that's the value in finding something that you enjoy or a

00:11:42.440 hobby is that it's got to engage you physically. It's got to engage you mentally. And I've certainly

00:11:47.640 found that to be true of archery and bow hunting. Yeah. And I think the bow hunting aspect of it.

00:11:53.240 So back to the college years, you know, post-college, I ended up getting this degree and how I got back

00:11:59.220 into hunting was fairly simple. I, I was planned to do it. It was like, okay, as soon as I have my

00:12:05.720 degree and I'm not paying out, I'm as poor as dirt, you know, as soon as I, I'm not out of state

00:12:11.360 anymore. Cause I couldn't find it, afford a non-resident tag in Idaho and hunt the weekends.

00:12:16.180 It's like 600 bucks. I'm like, I ain't buying an elk tag. No way. You know, you just don't have that

00:12:21.260 kind of money in college. And I just couldn't afford it. And I was out of state through all those years.

00:12:26.260 And it just, I was like, when am I going to fit it in? I could barely keep up with my studies,

00:12:30.140 you know? So later when I got my job out of college, okay, I'm going back and I'm going to

00:12:37.260 hit hunting hardcore, like full time. A month before I go on my first hunt, I was an auditor.

00:12:43.680 I had a degree in accounting and information systems. And I went to this Greeley, Colorado,

00:12:49.140 where they do a meat packing plant. You were working for, for the plant or Arthur Anderson.

00:12:54.400 Okay. Before the Enron scandal and the whole deal. Right. Yeah. So they hired, they hired.

00:13:00.480 So I was a consultant. They hired me as an external consultant to come in and like review their

00:13:05.120 processes for slaughtering cattle. Okay. So I'm auditing it from a financial and a process,

00:13:10.960 like an efficiency standpoint. Exactly. Okay. So I go in there and, you know, they bring the cattle in

00:13:16.320 and it's like on a triple deck or trailer and the cattle on the top are defecating on the cattle

00:13:22.500 in the second row. And it's just a great, and then the cattle in the second row is defecating

00:13:27.440 on the bottom row. And the bottom row is covered in urine and feces. Yeah. Just nasty. And pull

00:13:32.840 this thing in. And some of them travel like two days, no food, no water, just truck these cattle 0.78

00:13:37.440 in. Right. Get there. And then they shuffle the cattle off the, off the trucks. Right.

00:13:43.220 Then they bring them into the facility and they go down like a chute, a narrow chute,

00:13:47.400 one cow at a time. And then there's a guy with this giant piston. It looks like a, kind of like a,

00:13:54.000 I don't know. It's got two handles on each side. Sort of like a 50 cow or something. Yeah. Like 0.96

00:13:57.820 double grip 50 cow. Yeah. And the cattle, the cow comes in and the guy like points it right

00:14:02.460 between the eyes, you know, and just puts that thing there and then boom, it just shoots this

00:14:07.860 metal rod through the brain, you know, and then the cattle, the cow drops. So you're watching this

00:14:14.840 process. Yeah. Have you ever, like, did you grow up around this process? Yeah. We had cows. So

00:14:19.800 you're familiar with it. We butchered our own cows and we did some of this stuff. Cause I posted a

00:14:24.060 video, not of the slaughter of our cow, but the processing of it. Yeah. And some people lost

00:14:30.280 their minds. Well, I mean, I, I should say we didn't butcher our own cows. We raised cattle

00:14:34.520 and then we loaded them up to a trailer and took them to a facility. Right. A process. Yeah. And

00:14:40.060 then we pick up the meat. Sure. But I knew the cow. Yeah. Like, yeah. Since it was a

00:14:44.820 calf. Yeah. It's like, did you name, did you name the cow? Yeah. We named them all. Yeah. Freckles,

00:14:48.920 Daisy, surprise. We had Clyde last year. Yeah. And I like the cows, but I also like the steaks. Yeah.

00:14:55.580 And that was a reality that I was fully aware of as a kid. My parents should be aware of that. Yeah.

00:15:00.880 And then we also went out and rifle hunted since I could remember. Right. We killed animals. My dad

00:15:06.000 killed some deer with his bow and you saw the whole process in camp. You skinned it and all that and

00:15:11.280 took it home and we cut it up. So I was very familiar with that part of it, but I had never

00:15:16.100 seen it in a mass production facility. Right. A little different. To be honest, that just sickened

00:15:21.300 me. Just rubbed you the wrong way. Just bothered me. Like they came in, the smell was just incredible.

00:15:27.540 But after they smack that thing and it hits the ground, they pull it up in the air and there's

00:15:32.580 a conveyor belt and the guys are like slicing up around the hooves on the back and it's upside down.

00:15:36.880 Yeah. And they kind of start peeling the hide back. And that's all fascinating to see it

00:15:41.300 take place. Yeah. Okay. Wow. This is efficient. And then this machine would grab the bits of

00:15:47.060 hide that had been cut loose and it would literally rip it off like someone's sock off their foot.

00:15:53.300 And you would see a giant cow that would stretch like two times its length from the force of the

00:16:00.500 hide being pulled off. And then it would not just the hide itself, but like the actual bone structure.

00:16:05.740 And like, it would pull that whole thing, like stretch it out like that.

00:16:08.480 Yeah. The body would just, the legs would stretch.

00:16:11.200 And then it almost seems like it just takes away. And I think this is a lot of people have

00:16:14.740 a problem with, with hunting, which I think there's a huge difference when we talk about

00:16:18.040 that. Not the, just the decency of it, you know, like the connection to life itself.

00:16:23.620 I mean, I felt like there was definitely treating those animals like a commodity.

00:16:27.600 Right. Right.

00:16:28.520 And they were just like one, you know, not a life really. It's just, they were here. Now

00:16:35.080 they're here. And then the hide pops off and then they skin them open, they cut them and

00:16:39.320 they falls apart. And then they go down the conveyor belt and the blood, every aspect of

00:16:43.260 the animal got used, which was pretty fascinating. They chop it all up, goes into boxes, goes into

00:16:48.060 these, you know, and you walk the kill floor in reverse. So when you first get there, you're

00:16:52.980 because of contamination issues, you come from the boxing area where it's all pre-packaged.

00:16:57.480 It's all packaged for the store versus, and you work your way back.

00:17:01.060 Yeah.

00:17:01.260 So you're starting to see the cow come together, not come apart.

00:17:04.400 Right.

00:17:04.800 So you're like, oh, this is cool. This is cool. And each time you get closer to the live

00:17:08.420 animal, the more you're going, oh, I know where this is going.

00:17:12.120 This is messy. This is kind of, until you get to the end. And it's pretty fascinating to

00:17:16.060 go through that. I wish a lot of people were kind of required to do that because right then

00:17:21.660 in there, I always knew where meat came from, but I didn't really connect. I knew where my

00:17:27.180 elk and deer, like I had a vision for it.

00:17:29.140 People don't want to connect that. Right? Like they want to eat the burger, but they don't

00:17:32.420 want to mess with the cow. 1.00

00:17:34.520 Right.

00:17:34.980 It's crazy. I mean, there's a huge disconnect there.

00:17:36.920 When I got back there, I was like, okay, I know where every part of that comes from.

00:17:43.120 I know how that burger ends up on my plate because I have an extreme visceral image of it in

00:17:50.100 my mind because I walked through the process and it's death on a wholesale level. Like

00:17:56.500 just death. They kill, I think it was something like 5,000 pigs a day and 3,000 cows.

00:18:04.900 A day?

00:18:05.560 A day.

00:18:06.620 Oh man. So this is like super efficient.

00:18:09.600 Yeah. You're talking just crazy. I didn't realize it was like that.

00:18:13.320 And some of these people are artists. They're walking around in these white lab suits with

00:18:19.360 knives hanging all over their body of all sorts.

00:18:22.180 Like Edward Scissorhands.

00:18:23.200 Yeah, dude. And they're like, this knife, back in the sheath, this knife.

00:18:27.740 And they've just done it.

00:18:28.680 And it's just a conveyor belt.

00:18:30.480 Oh, it's a conveyor belt. And it's just like, they cut this part of the rump off all day long

00:18:37.080 every day.

00:18:37.600 And that's all, that's the only piece of meat that they cut off.

00:18:41.180 Right.

00:18:41.780 Yeah.

00:18:42.000 And they have different stations.

00:18:43.020 Sure.

00:18:43.160 They can switch back and forth, but they're just like done. And it's a thing of beauty. It's amazing.

00:18:47.980 It's amazing. Super skilled, super efficient, but in every part of it gets used. Right. But again,

00:18:53.100 it felt like commodity. I also felt it, but what bothered me was the death at this mass scale

00:18:59.980 that is completely unrecognized by the public. When they go get a Big Mac, when they go to the

00:19:05.740 store, when they go to a restaurant and they get this thing, they have no idea.

00:19:10.780 Right.

00:19:11.020 The mess and the, it's just willful ignorance and the, and the death that had to occur for that to

00:19:17.040 happen. Right. And so that sickened me a little bit. And it also made me think, I don't want to

00:19:21.700 participate in that. Like, I don't want to get my meat from that place. I am a firm believer in

00:19:28.980 eating meat. Every bit of like science and logic to me says the human thrives on eating meat.

00:19:37.540 It's how we got to where we are today. Right. You can't reverse millions upon millions of years

00:19:43.160 of evolution and, and science and just go, well, today we're morally above that. And so we're only

00:19:48.460 eating plants.

00:19:49.380 Well, it's not immoral either.

00:19:51.140 And that's the thing that comes up. I just had a debate with a gal yesterday who said,

00:19:55.220 you murder things to eat and I don't murder anything. And that's a whole long debate we can

00:20:00.320 have all day long, but I'm like, no, first of all, the word you're conflating murder with kill.

00:20:05.080 Right. Right. They're not the same thing. Yeah. Good point.

00:20:08.420 Murder is to kill a human being. That's what murder is defined as. Murder is not the killing

00:20:13.660 of an animal. That's just the killing of an animal. And to be fair too, there's, there's certainly,

00:20:19.540 and I think this is the exception rather than the rule, there are certainly unethical ways of

00:20:24.720 killing an animal. Correct.

00:20:26.820 But that's not what we're talking about. Right. Unethical, but it's still not murder.

00:20:31.240 Right. You know?

00:20:31.980 Sure. And so I don't, I, it bothers me when they throw out the word murder, but

00:20:35.940 life consumes life period. And I think that's a, that's a message I try to convey all the time

00:20:41.420 because life, even for her situation, you know, um, if you only consume animal or plant life,

00:20:50.140 it's still plant protein is wrung from the earth with oil and gas and destruction and mayhem.

00:20:58.600 And even at some point we will return to the earth, you know, back to dust. Right.

00:21:02.600 So this whole idea that you can live cruelty free, if you own a TV or a smartphone, or you're driving

00:21:09.920 down the road in a car, you ride a bus, you walk on pavement. I mean, you're contributing to

00:21:14.980 life consuming life. Of course.

00:21:16.760 You don't get a free pass. You don't get to be like, nope, I'm morally superior to a hunter

00:21:21.860 because I don't kill animals. It just doesn't work that way. So you have to decide how do you want

00:21:27.320 to live? How do you want to run your life from an ethical and moral standpoint for you that you

00:21:33.080 feel is like the best way to consume life? Right. Like how do you square that up? Right.

00:21:39.480 Yeah. And I think you've, I mean, let's talk about this because I think you have, you know,

00:21:43.400 you see this plant that you're in and you're like, I'm not comfortable with that. And so you take action

00:21:47.700 in a way that that doesn't move you away from not consuming animals, but just a way that's in

00:21:52.860 alignment with the way that you see the world.

00:21:54.780 Yeah. I went on a rifle hunt shortly after this in Oregon. So I get back from this plant

00:22:00.080 and then in the wintertime we go and we, we go on this rifle hunt and I go out into the

00:22:04.220 wilderness and it's like 10 below zero. It was a rough, rough. My brother Brent's with

00:22:10.180 me. He has fond memories of that time. And I don't like the cold, man. I do not like the

00:22:15.540 cold at all. That just makes everything miserable. I sort of, I sort of feel like it's gritty

00:22:22.060 and I, I kind of, I hate it, but I love it. You like to suffer. I like to suffer. I like

00:22:28.820 climbing out of the bed in the morning and just being like 10 below. It's so difficult.

00:22:33.940 It sucks. And you're like, but at the same time I'm alive. 0.99

00:22:36.080 Like you can feel it's biting your skin, you know? And my dad's kind of more like that.

00:22:40.680 My brother's not so much. And so we, uh, our eggs all froze in the cooler. Our milk froze

00:22:49.100 into a hard block. Like everything. I don't know. We were not like licking it to get some

00:22:54.000 milk.

00:22:54.320 A couple of days before it was just cold at night and then warm in the day. This just,

00:22:58.320 it was a snap overnight. It just, it just dropped. So we go out and my cousin Ben and I, and we've

00:23:04.700 got our rifles and we're hiking out and I hadn't been out in the wild like that in a while, like

00:23:10.100 that remote. And then that kind of terrain, you're going to die out there. If you get lost,

00:23:15.520 something could go wrong and people could die. Yeah. So that was eyeopening. And then we're

00:23:20.720 trudging through the snow. And at this time I posted a photo of it the other day and, uh,

00:23:25.120 my friend shed crazy got on there and he's like, it's us standing over this dead elk, you know?

00:23:30.600 Was he there with you?

00:23:31.520 No.

00:23:31.760 Or he just saw that.

00:23:32.340 He just saw the picture. I posted it the other day.

00:23:34.700 It's, it's an old photo now, 2004.

00:23:37.860 Okay. Yeah.

00:23:38.820 And, uh, he's like, you guys look like two Russians who just killed meat for the winter. 1.00

00:23:44.220 And literally like, we're wearing like army surplus wool pants and mismatching sweatshirts

00:23:51.040 and camouflage from all over. And at the time we had no money. I just graduated from college.

00:23:56.660 I just was going out. We had like a Walmart tent that had junkie poles and we went out and we did

00:24:02.340 this hunt and I kill an elk and it was, it was visceral. It was intense. This bull is,

00:24:07.900 there's like always that we ran. There was probably 200 of them on this hill and this hunter shot at

00:24:13.320 him and scared him. We had been watching them all morning. And my cousin, we know that he's been

00:24:17.260 hunting a lot. He's like, someone is going to shoot those elk any hour.

00:24:21.360 Okay. Cause it's public land. There's a lot of guys out there in orange. He's like,

00:24:24.960 there's no way someone's not already going to do it. And he's like, the best thing we can do

00:24:28.960 is actually not try to get there first, actually wait and predict where they're going to go.

00:24:34.180 See if they can push them towards you.

00:24:35.420 I think they're going to come this way, but we're going to stay right here. So we can run either

00:24:40.720 that way or that way to intercept them. If they come off this mountain in this direction. And sure

00:24:45.760 enough, boom, boom, shots are going everywhere. The elk bolt down the mountain. And then we're

00:24:50.400 running. We're running. We run like half a mile and we could see, okay, the elk are coming down

00:24:56.000 this slope. We intercept them. And it's one of my first hunts in years. And my cousin Ben just pulls

00:25:03.580 up and boom, drops an elk. And then I, I shoot and I miss and I miss and I load the magazine and I,

00:25:09.940 I didn't hit a single, I didn't hit this elk.

00:25:12.020 And I'm like, what happened? Like I was like, and I reloaded and now they're up the mountain

00:25:18.720 and I'm like, I'm like, they just went down one mountain and they're going right up the next.

00:25:25.060 And I was like, this isn't happening. And I, I just ran as fast as I could up that mountain to

00:25:30.880 try to pass them, really get there to the top first and meet them there. And I was running,

00:25:36.200 running, running up that mountain. And there, so we're going in parallel. They were about 200 yards to

00:25:40.140 my, to my left as we're going up the mountain and I'm glassing through the trees and I can see

00:25:44.900 they're still going up the hill, but they're slowing down and their, their tongues are hanging

00:25:49.020 out and they're huffing and they've already ran down a mountain.

00:25:51.860 Yeah. I mean, they're tired.

00:25:52.640 I've run too. But one thing I've learned about humans is that we have an insane amount of capability

00:25:58.460 for endurance, especially when we need to.

00:26:00.940 Right. And I was fit and I still am fit, but at that time I was quite the running fit guy.

00:26:08.320 Yeah.

00:26:08.900 That kind of endurance stuff. I could keep that pace going up that hill a long time where elk

00:26:14.540 and even horses, you know, they have the, what is it? The Leadville 100 or something like that,

00:26:19.560 that these horse races with it, where they've done these studies where you find out that human

00:26:23.580 beings have a strong ability for endurance that like a horse does not.

00:26:28.140 Right. I mean, they may have the power for example, right? Or, but they just don't have

00:26:31.520 the stamina. Interesting. I didn't know that. They can't last as long.

00:26:34.540 That's interesting.

00:26:35.820 So if you did an endurance race over hundreds of miles, humans are going to beat the horse

00:26:41.440 any day of the week. They're going to beat the elk. They're going to beat the deer.

00:26:44.480 They talk about the type of hunting that they'll do in Africa where they just run down and just

00:26:48.480 wear them down.

00:26:49.200 They just chase them until they can't breathe anymore. And in open country, you can do that because

00:26:53.640 an elk will put distance between you and disappear.

00:26:56.240 Right. And you can't go and never find them.

00:26:57.720 You can't find them again, but if it's just flat and it goes on forever, you can actually,

00:27:01.520 yeah, you can see them a mile out of there.

00:27:03.000 You'll just run them until they drop. Yeah. Humans have that ability. So anyway, I'm running

00:27:07.160 up the mountain and I'm watching them and sure enough, I get, I cut across. And so I have

00:27:11.660 like a 70 yard shot, but now they're kind of, it took too long. So I'm like, crap, I'm not,

00:27:16.840 I got to run back more. And I'm getting almost to the top of this peak and then cutting to the

00:27:21.840 left. And I was well ahead of them by then. And then I just sat down over a log and waited

00:27:26.340 and then single file, they're coming up, their tongues are hanging out. And at about 60 yards,

00:27:32.120 I picked a bull. And as soon as it walked into that opening, I squeezed that trigger and dropped

00:27:36.320 him. And I went over to him and he was still alive. Yeah. And he's looking at me and blood's

00:27:41.400 all over in the snow and he's kicking and he's looking over at me. And I loaded another shot

00:27:45.960 and I shot him again. And it was eye to eye. It was 15 yards away. I killed it in a very close 0.96

00:27:53.600 and intimate way where I had killed deer from distances, but this was like right there.

00:28:01.200 It came home to me, you know, that I just killed a living thing. And that was intense.

00:28:05.740 You start making that connection.

00:28:06.740 But I was also elated too. I pulled it off. It was a bit of redemption after

00:28:11.680 failing utterly right next to my cousin. You know, I came down the hill and I'm like,

00:28:16.700 I shot him. He's like, no, you didn't. I watched you miss.

00:28:21.060 Yeah. He's like, no way you hit that thing up there after running up that hill.

00:28:24.500 He's like, you got up the hill before they did. I was like, dude, my pride and my dignity.

00:28:28.560 Of course, man. Of course.

00:28:30.680 And then we broke that animal down and we packed it out and it was a rough, rough pack out.

00:28:37.380 My brother's laughing.

00:28:38.420 Yeah. It was brutal, man. It was rookie city. We didn't really know what we were doing.

00:28:42.840 So just the way you broke them down was wrong.

00:28:44.740 Left the bone in.

00:28:46.100 Oh, yeah.

00:28:46.520 We left the hooves on and it was heavy, extra weight.

00:28:50.340 Yeah. And for some reason we, we're idiots. I don't even want to talk about it, but we built 1.00

00:28:55.100 a sled and we thought, well, we could put it on the sled, a whole elk, mind you, and we

00:28:59.560 could just slide it down and it just looked like it could.

00:29:02.640 Oh, like you would push it and let go of it?

00:29:04.400 Yeah. And it would just go down the mountain, like in my head, what I picture.

00:29:08.640 Yeah. It would just be perfect and just follow this little course that you picked out, right?

00:29:11.740 Because why hike it down the mountain if you can just slide it down?

00:29:14.820 That's right.

00:29:15.360 So we'd lash the sled together. Too much Boy Scouting.

00:29:18.420 Of course.

00:29:18.760 And it's like a wooden raft. We get this elk heaved up with like pry bars and logs and

00:29:25.140 stuff. And it's like a four point bull. It's a good body bull. And we get him on that thing.

00:29:30.260 His head's like, his horns are going to be a problem.

00:29:33.220 But I see this like, okay, if we push, this thing's going to go to the bottom and then we'll

00:29:37.800 take care of it there. We push that sucker. Dude, it goes like 50 yards and it just hits 0.99

00:29:43.120 a tree.

00:29:43.540 This is a bad idea as soon as you let go of it.

00:29:45.200 The sled explodes. The thing's just tumbling down the mountain, slamming into trees. And

00:29:50.300 then it's not any easier to move. And we try to do it again and again. And finally we're

00:29:56.420 like, we should probably just cut this out.

00:29:57.860 Yeah.

00:29:58.180 We should probably just-

00:29:58.880 So you haven't even broken them down?

00:30:00.680 No. No. Then it got worse. We cut them open and we gutted them.

00:30:05.300 Was your cousin with you?

00:30:06.280 Yeah. He was, but they had always kind of road hunted a lot.

00:30:10.400 Okay. Yeah.

00:30:11.580 So pull up with the truck or the four-wheeler or whatever.

00:30:13.900 And then what we did was when we didn't road hunt, we always had horses. We grew up with

00:30:19.000 horses.

00:30:19.440 Yeah.

00:30:19.820 And so you would quarter it and you would put the meat on the horse.

00:30:23.020 Yeah.

00:30:23.180 Like every time. I don't remember us really ever packing out an elk on our own back.

00:30:27.620 Yeah.

00:30:28.360 There was always a four-wheeler around. There was something.

00:30:31.160 Yeah.

00:30:31.400 And then if we had pack boards, we'd lash something to a pack board, but remember we

00:30:36.300 didn't have any pack boards. I don't know what was going on that day. Oh, they broke. That's

00:30:40.060 right. They broke like the day before. They froze and they snapped. The straps were coming

00:30:45.200 off or like, anyway, it was just a-

00:30:47.840 She made it work.

00:30:48.480 Yeah.

00:30:49.080 Took a little longer.

00:30:49.680 We cut it off.

00:30:50.300 Took a little longer out, but-

00:30:51.260 But it froze.

00:30:52.360 Oh, yeah.

00:30:53.020 So then we couldn't cut it up. Like it was hard as a rock.

00:30:54.940 Yeah.

00:30:55.680 So everything you could do wrong, we did. And my dad comes in the next day to help

00:31:01.220 us get the rest of it. And he's like, what were you doing? And we had tied it to this

00:31:05.320 log and then we like hoisted it on our shoulder.

00:31:08.040 So you're holding the log?

00:31:09.120 Yeah.

00:31:09.540 With the weight between us?

00:31:10.460 Right. Okay.

00:31:11.020 It's a horrible way to carry weight.

00:31:12.520 I imagine.

00:31:13.020 It's the worst way. And then they're swinging.

00:31:15.160 It's swinging around.

00:31:16.200 Because you're not putting it over. You're not placing it over your shoulders.

00:31:17.940 No, it's not over your center of mass.

00:31:19.260 You're no center of gravity and all that. Yeah.

00:31:20.420 Dude, I look back on it and I'm thinking, we must have just been cold and excited.

00:31:24.700 Yeah.

00:31:24.960 Our brains were completely-

00:31:26.080 Weren't quite working.

00:31:27.100 Right.

00:31:27.160 No, my dad shows up and there's a frozen quarter, which we finally got into that and hung

00:31:31.180 it up in the tree and there were cougar tracks all over.

00:31:33.440 Oh, really?

00:31:34.240 At your place or at camp?

00:31:35.640 No, at the kill site.

00:31:36.660 Oh.

00:31:36.860 All around.

00:31:37.700 Okay.

00:31:38.020 It stalked all around the whole day while we were cutting. It was making these rounds

00:31:41.900 of race.

00:31:42.720 And then as we hiked out, my brother, we'd have a guy go out with a pack and the second

00:31:47.940 guy would follow along like 15 minutes later with his load.

00:31:50.580 Yeah.

00:31:50.880 And there'd be cougar tracks following him.

00:31:53.080 Yeah. On top of his tracks for like two miles.

00:31:56.500 Really?

00:31:57.140 That's crazy.

00:31:57.420 And we came back and we're like, whoa, dude, we're all getting followed by this cougar.

00:32:00.720 We need to pay way more attention.

00:32:03.440 Way more attention.

00:32:04.320 Yeah.

00:32:05.020 But we ended up, my dad ended up taking the quarters and actually tying them up with ropes

00:32:11.340 and making backpacks sort of out of the actual quarter.

00:32:16.060 He's super, he's a truck driver.

00:32:17.920 He's not, he's like, he can tie a billion knots.

00:32:20.340 Yeah.

00:32:20.360 That's interesting.

00:32:20.780 And he slung it over your shoulder.

00:32:22.240 Oh, he just like threw it over. Yeah.

00:32:22.920 Yeah. And you were, you had like a neat backpack.

00:32:25.380 Yeah.

00:32:25.760 It was like, whoa.

00:32:26.540 That's interesting.

00:32:27.220 I'm like, dude, this is way smarter than what Ben and I were doing.

00:32:30.160 Way smarter.

00:32:31.600 We were carrying them over our shoulder because we didn't have a pack.

00:32:34.560 He just slung it on.

00:32:35.360 I was like, dude, why do you tell us that three hours ago?

00:32:38.800 So that's funny.

00:32:40.120 But I, but you know what?

00:32:40.780 You earned it too.

00:32:41.520 And I think to your point earlier, you're like, I think everybody should experience that.

00:32:44.740 I do too.

00:32:45.280 Like, I think at some point everybody should earn something that they eat because that

00:32:50.500 connection to it gives you a deeper understanding, a deeper significance.

00:32:55.180 I didn't start hunting until last year.

00:32:57.760 And I remember my very first hunt.

00:32:59.620 I was in Texas with a friend of mine.

00:33:01.700 He was like, all right, there it is. 0.99

00:33:03.540 Shoot it. 0.93

00:33:03.960 I'm like, I was in the military. 1.00

00:33:06.120 I know guns.

00:33:07.140 I have no problem firing a gun. 1.00

00:33:09.440 And I'm like, I'm about to kill this beautiful animal. 0.96

00:33:13.060 And I remember shooting it and I didn't think I hit it.

00:33:17.560 I was like, dude, I missed it because he bolted.

00:33:19.920 And my buddy's like, no, no, you hit it.

00:33:21.540 I'm like, no, I don't think I did.

00:33:23.080 And I followed him like when I, after I shot.

00:33:25.340 So we went out there and found him and right where I shot, there was no blood at all.

00:33:29.300 No blood.

00:33:30.140 I'm like, man, there's nothing here.

00:33:31.780 And he's like, well, just look around, like follow it where you went.

00:33:34.140 And 20 yards from there, we found a big blood stain there on the ground.

00:33:37.120 And then 20 yards from that, I look up and he's, he's dead.

00:33:40.180 He's laying there dead.

00:33:40.940 And it was like this feeling of satisfaction.

00:33:45.540 Oh, I did what I set out to accomplish.

00:33:48.340 But then I was like, ah, I don't know.

00:33:50.640 I feel bad about that.

00:33:52.260 Not bad enough where I won't do it again because I see the value in it, but it's a humbling

00:33:57.220 experience to go out and do that and provide your own way to some degree.

00:34:02.360 It was really powerful.

00:34:03.380 Men, just a quick timeout along the themes of this podcast.

00:34:08.200 Fathers have the responsibility to develop grit and fortitude in their children.

00:34:13.100 And it seems that more and more our children, and especially our young men are asked not

00:34:17.760 to exhibit any of the characteristics of what makes them boys and men.

00:34:22.500 And since I've recognized this as a problem, I have decided to help men, to help you do

00:34:28.360 something about it by creating an experience, unlike anything you've ever seen before.

00:34:32.780 This is our legacy event, and it's going to be held on September 20th through the 23rd,

00:34:38.280 2018.

00:34:39.000 So very quickly, it's in the mountains of Southern Utah.

00:34:41.240 You and your son or sons need to get to Las Vegas.

00:34:44.240 And from there, we'll handle everything else in what I like to describe as a rite of passage

00:34:49.840 for both you and your boy.

00:34:51.360 And those boys are between the ages of eight to 15.

00:34:53.920 So they have to fall into that age category.

00:34:56.120 We only have two spots, guys, two spots remaining.

00:34:58.960 So if you want to forge a new bond with him and help him develop the masculine virtues that

00:35:04.060 are going to help him win at life, then I would highly, highly suggest that you come

00:35:08.460 and I'm inviting you to do so.

00:35:09.920 Head to order of man.com slash legacy.

00:35:13.180 Again, order of man.com slash legacy.

00:35:15.580 The event is September 20th through the 23rd, 2018.

00:35:19.080 Do it quickly.

00:35:19.940 So you can lock in one of those last two spots.

00:35:22.540 Do that after the show.

00:35:23.740 Until then, I will get back to my conversation with Brian.

00:35:27.660 When I left after having killed the elk and then packing it out and the whole experience,

00:35:34.200 I felt enriched as a person for persevering in the weather conditions.

00:35:40.480 I actually got lost and could have died out there the next day.

00:35:45.700 Probably not.

00:35:46.440 I mean, I like to think I'm pretty resilient.

00:35:47.960 So I'd have built a lean to and then like survived like a warrior.

00:35:52.660 But it was...

00:35:53.640 You would have figured something else out.

00:35:54.600 It was dang, dang.

00:35:56.200 Oh, geez.

00:35:56.840 I mean...

00:35:57.460 Would you just get turned around or was there like a snowstorm or what?

00:36:00.400 We went out in the evening and it was blizzarding.

00:36:02.880 You know, we were going up this trail and I think it was actually a day before this and

00:36:07.780 we were going up the trail and it was just me going up the trail and we were just kind

00:36:11.760 of hunting off this old trail.

00:36:13.420 So this is when the weather snapped actually because I didn't have the right gear on at

00:36:18.100 all.

00:36:18.300 Like we had gone out in the afternoon and there was no snow.

00:36:21.980 No, it was fairly decent.

00:36:23.540 And all of a sudden, dude, it was just...

00:36:25.320 Just came in.

00:36:25.820 Came in.

00:36:26.320 And that's what happens when you're on the top of the mountains, you know, the Rockies.

00:36:30.900 And so this blizzard is coming down.

00:36:32.420 The snow is coming down and I'm walking up the trail and then the snow stops and it's

00:36:38.660 just blanketed on everything.

00:36:40.580 Oh, yeah.

00:36:41.140 And so the forest is really quiet.

00:36:43.040 Right.

00:36:43.740 It's sort of muffled.

00:36:44.880 Yeah.

00:36:45.140 Sound changes in the forest.

00:36:46.440 Changes in the forest.

00:36:47.120 You don't know exactly like what direction it's coming from.

00:36:49.460 It kind of just gets swallowed up.

00:36:50.920 Yeah.

00:36:51.240 Like it echoes and doesn't.

00:36:53.020 I don't know how to describe it.

00:36:54.040 Yeah.

00:36:54.100 I know what you're saying.

00:36:54.520 In a forest with the snow, it's just like, but you can hear that crunching sound, you

00:36:58.520 know, of snow getting.

00:37:00.540 And I'm walking along and I see a couple of bulls just come across the trail in front

00:37:05.480 of me and I see them going to the trees.

00:37:08.500 Even though it's a pretty thick forest, the ground, I mean, there's so much snow.

00:37:12.200 The ground has like six inches of snow and I see them go in and I follow their tracks.

00:37:17.660 And then I'm following their tracks, following their tracks.

00:37:19.760 And I get to a point where I get like a 200 yard shot on them and I get down on my knees

00:37:23.860 and I'm trying to make the shot and then they go over the hill.

00:37:26.060 And so I run, run, run, run, run.

00:37:27.580 And I get up to where they were last at.

00:37:28.920 And then I could see them. 0.98

00:37:29.600 And this continues on this cat and mouse where I'm about to shoot them. 0.94

00:37:33.020 I just, I need to close that gap. 0.97

00:37:34.940 Right.

00:37:35.100 Get to a, I never know what's around the next corner where they're going to be.

00:37:38.620 And the whole time I'm like, man, you don't have no idea where you're at, but you have

00:37:42.980 this snow and this track.

00:37:44.820 This track.

00:37:45.280 Yeah.

00:37:45.460 So you're good.

00:37:46.600 Right.

00:37:47.260 Can just follow your tracks.

00:37:48.180 Until it gets covered up.

00:37:48.820 Until the storm comes back and it came back with a vengeance and the sun's starting to

00:37:53.920 go down.

00:37:54.500 And as I was hiking out, it just came back and the tracks disappeared.

00:37:57.760 I had no idea where I was at.

00:37:59.840 Like my plan to follow those tracks out, obliterate.

00:38:03.100 Gone.

00:38:03.840 So I'm sitting there going and everything looks the same.

00:38:06.000 If you're in a forest in Oregon, in those kinds of conditions, like everything looks a

00:38:11.300 lot the same.

00:38:11.920 Now I could climb to the top of one of those mountains, but I had never been there before.

00:38:15.460 It's my second day in a completely new area.

00:38:17.840 I'd never, all I knew is there was a canyon there, but there was canyons everywhere.

00:38:22.080 And we were in a particular spot where the terrain just switched all over the place.

00:38:28.760 And I didn't have a compass with me.

00:38:30.340 Like with a compass, I could walk in a straight line at least find some water and follow it

00:38:35.580 down.

00:38:36.500 Even if I just walked in a straight line for five miles, I'd probably 10 miles.

00:38:40.420 I'd probably at some point hit a road, hit a road, you know, something, but

00:38:44.840 I couldn't tell if I was where I was at.

00:38:47.860 And, and a lot of these things I didn't know back then, I just hadn't planned for these

00:38:51.480 contingencies.

00:38:52.560 So it got late at the very least.

00:38:54.820 I was going to end up spending a very cold night, miserable night out in the woods.

00:38:58.580 And I had no jacket.

00:38:59.620 I had like this light little sweatshirt on at the time, not the right conditions, right

00:39:05.320 gear for those conditions.

00:39:06.340 You would have been building the snow, a snow cave.

00:39:08.340 No fire.

00:39:09.160 Like the Klondike.

00:39:09.480 Yeah.

00:39:09.640 Did you do that?

00:39:10.280 Are you, are you a scout?

00:39:11.400 Yeah.

00:39:11.740 Okay.

00:39:12.040 Yeah.

00:39:12.280 So I was like, all right.

00:39:14.580 Uh, so I start hiking back and long story short, my uncle parked up on this ridge and

00:39:22.040 had the car on and he was honking the horn and flashing the lights.

00:39:27.040 Ironically, I couldn't hear the horn at all, but I saw the lights flashing as I climbed up

00:39:32.800 the ridge and was looking, trying to figure out my bearings.

00:39:35.220 And I saw lights and I was like, oh, there's lights.

00:39:38.480 Okay.

00:39:38.840 There's lights.

00:39:39.460 So I started walking toward the light and I had to drop down into the low lands to get

00:39:44.920 there.

00:39:45.300 And so now I don't know.

00:39:46.600 You can't really see him again.

00:39:47.660 I can't tell.

00:39:48.420 And I don't have a compass again.

00:39:50.360 Anyway, I follow for a while.

00:39:51.720 And, but then I started to hear the horn once I was a little closer and then I followed my

00:39:55.160 way out and they had been waiting for me for like three hours.

00:39:57.880 They're in that place where they look.

00:39:59.280 They were worried.

00:40:00.200 Oh, yeah.

00:40:00.540 They were worried because they saw me like charge off into the trees, you know, up the trail

00:40:05.240 with not the right gear for a buzzard.

00:40:08.160 Right.

00:40:09.060 So they were worried about that.

00:40:10.740 And the temperature was dropping, dude.

00:40:11.920 It was like below 30.

00:40:13.980 It was 30 degrees and it was 20 degrees and then it was 10 degrees.

00:40:16.960 And now you're like getting to five and pretty soon it's, you were dropping below zero.

00:40:21.040 What was going through your mind?

00:40:22.360 Were you, I mean, were you scared at this point?

00:40:24.160 Were you like, oh man, I'm in over my head here.

00:40:26.600 Or were you calm about it?

00:40:27.700 Like, where were you at?

00:40:28.640 I grew up in the woods like that.

00:40:30.720 What I figured was at the very least, I could just walk all night.

00:40:34.380 As long as I kept walking.

00:40:36.420 Just to stay warm?

00:40:37.340 I was warm.

00:40:37.960 Or stay active?

00:40:38.400 I was pretty warm.

00:40:39.080 Yeah.

00:40:39.380 Yeah.

00:40:39.640 As long as I could just kept walking, folding my arms, just kept walking.

00:40:43.140 So I figured I would, at the very least, I would, I was thinking about trying to find

00:40:47.060 some water and follow it down.

00:40:49.080 Yeah.

00:40:49.900 And thankfully I didn't need to, but I didn't panic.

00:40:52.460 I didn't think I was going to die out there, but I thought it was going to be a really

00:40:56.080 crappy night.

00:40:57.200 Yeah.

00:40:57.320 I was pissed off about it. 1.00

00:40:58.560 At first I panicked a little, I remember getting like really worried, like, you idiot. 1.00

00:41:05.140 Why? 1.00

00:41:05.460 Like when the snow covered the tracks, like you're so dumb. 1.00

00:41:09.960 But you know what? 0.99

00:41:10.920 Those experiences without those, Aaron Snyder, been my co-host for years on this podcast.

00:41:17.180 He's like, panic generally is what kills a person in an emergency situation. 0.56

00:41:20.960 Start making dumb decisions, do something a little weird that you shouldn't be doing. 0.96

00:41:25.160 Yeah, absolutely. 1.00

00:41:25.980 You know, panic.

00:41:26.780 And so I was like, well, you're not going to die.

00:41:30.100 It's just going to be really crappy.

00:41:32.360 Is this where this idea of grittiness comes from?

00:41:36.000 I mean, is this, it sounds like you guys grew up, I wouldn't say on your own, but left

00:41:41.060 to your own a little bit, probably to some degree, grew up in the wilderness, grew up

00:41:44.460 probably doing these types of things.

00:41:46.300 Like where does this idea of grittiness come from?

00:41:48.080 We had like 40 or 50 acres that were where my aunts and uncles all had like five acre parcels. 0.97

00:41:54.780 Oh, like all pumped together.

00:41:56.040 And then on the edges of that was like timberland and stuff.

00:42:00.660 And so we had hundreds and hundreds of acres of forested land that was just for us to play

00:42:07.920 in.

00:42:08.060 Yeah.

00:42:08.500 That was your background, your backyard.

00:42:10.260 And our parents didn't have a lot of money and they bought the land, but didn't really have

00:42:14.800 money to put something on it now.

00:42:16.420 And then they, they excavated it.

00:42:18.240 And so we grew up right at the stage where they had all this property and we're cutting

00:42:22.640 roads in and we were living in tents and we were living in cars and trailers and little

00:42:28.660 nomad trailer.

00:42:30.120 That was my parents would sleep in that, but we would sleep outside kind of, you know,

00:42:33.800 which I imagine as a kid, I mean, I hear it. 0.89

00:42:37.040 I'm like, Oh, it sucked.

00:42:37.780 But then as a kid, I'm like, dude, my boys would love that.

00:42:40.040 It was legit.

00:42:40.800 It was so, it was like wild.

00:42:43.280 Yeah.

00:42:43.860 And we got turned outside no matter the weather, because we were, there was no inside.

00:42:49.360 That's where you were.

00:42:49.880 You are, you're outside.

00:42:50.800 There was nothing.

00:42:51.460 And so we would go and we literally would just, we wouldn't come back.

00:42:55.860 And so it would be pouring rain, windy and cold.

00:42:58.320 We just got rained on and we'd still just play in the rain.

00:43:01.860 You weren't freaking out about it.

00:43:02.920 We didn't even think about it. 0.99

00:43:04.040 We're like, this sucks. 0.87

00:43:05.060 And then we'd jump knees deep into running water and goof around.

00:43:09.320 I remember as we got older, like age 13, we were playing paintball in the woods and my

00:43:16.080 cousin, Ben, he's just a ninja.

00:43:18.140 And there was this swampy spot on the property that we had in this area where we were playing

00:43:23.960 paintball in the woods.

00:43:25.600 And he was dead.

00:43:27.060 We had killed his whole team.

00:43:29.800 It was just Ben left.

00:43:31.100 And there's like four of us and it was over. 1.00

00:43:32.920 Like we just had to find him and kill him. 1.00

00:43:34.540 As soon as we get him, it's done. 1.00

00:43:35.720 And that sucker went and laid down in the pond. 0.99

00:43:40.060 Oh, really? 1.00

00:43:40.800 Like with just his head or something sticking out?

00:43:42.200 Yeah.

00:43:42.220 And it's like 35 degrees.

00:43:45.340 Just his head sticking out with the gun hidden in the reeds.

00:43:48.260 That's awesome.

00:43:48.900 And froze.

00:43:50.840 And we were like looking everywhere but that spot.

00:43:54.140 Of course.

00:43:54.500 Because he wouldn't be in there. 0.98

00:43:55.700 And then he sits up, boom, boom, boom, boom, and kills a bunch of us. 0.90

00:43:58.620 That's funny. 0.96

00:43:59.120 That takes grit.

00:44:00.660 For sure.

00:44:01.380 We'd climb trees.

00:44:02.540 Yeah.

00:44:02.920 And do stuff like that.

00:44:04.000 And we would catch crawdads.

00:44:05.540 And I don't know.

00:44:06.100 We just spent a real woodsy life as a kid.

00:44:09.940 And I just couldn't stand up.

00:44:11.160 We'd have friends from school come over.

00:44:13.940 And they were weak and soft.

00:44:15.840 Oh, sure.

00:44:16.760 And we'd be like, let's go out here and do this.

00:44:18.420 Or we could stay in and watch TV.

00:44:19.900 Yeah.

00:44:20.140 Play video games.

00:44:20.860 We could play.

00:44:21.460 And we're like, what is that?

00:44:23.000 We just didn't do that.

00:44:23.880 Right.

00:44:24.160 And as I got older, I just didn't like it when kids whined or complained about the cold or didn't like physical work.

00:44:34.260 That was the other thing is our parents worked our butts off.

00:44:37.460 Dude, I swear all we did was chop wood from age birth till now.

00:44:40.780 It was just all we did was go out.

00:44:43.320 And it was like, dad would cut down a tree and then we would chop it up for firewood.

00:44:48.160 It never ended.

00:44:50.000 And then there was always some project that we had to do in landscape.

00:44:53.340 And we're building this and we're putting a deck in.

00:44:55.760 It was our parents were young.

00:44:57.540 They used us as slave labor. 0.98

00:44:59.800 And yeah, it was just.

00:45:01.420 Yeah.

00:45:02.000 Would you say what?

00:45:02.740 You said they were what?

00:45:03.700 16, 17 year olds when they had you?

00:45:05.740 Yes.

00:45:06.220 Sheesh, man.

00:45:06.780 Yeah.

00:45:07.360 Kids themselves.

00:45:08.560 They were kids and they had a lot of things they wanted to go do.

00:45:12.240 Like teenagers do.

00:45:13.640 Of course.

00:45:14.140 In early 20s and stuff. 0.66

00:45:15.460 So I had really young parents that didn't put up with a lot of crap from kids and worked 0.76

00:45:21.020 really hard. 0.90

00:45:21.720 Yeah.

00:45:22.180 Sounds like it.

00:45:23.000 So we kind of grew up with all of that.

00:45:25.120 And then my parents both grew up in homes where their parents gave them a lot of responsibility

00:45:30.540 and made them work hard and they didn't have a lot of money.

00:45:33.740 And I did a podcast with my grandfather that I published.

00:45:37.140 I remember which episode it is now, but it's like the old days.

00:45:40.860 I did a podcast with him and anybody who listens to the gritty podcast that,

00:45:44.980 that listens to that podcast with my grandfather.

00:45:47.620 You can see where that history comes from.

00:45:50.280 Really?

00:45:50.820 I mean,

00:45:51.180 go back and listen to that.

00:45:51.980 I haven't,

00:45:52.300 I haven't heard.

00:45:52.700 You'll like it.

00:45:53.240 I had like South Cox right to me and be like,

00:45:55.640 that's one of the best podcasts I've heard.

00:45:57.740 Tons of people have written in to say that reminds me of my tough old grandfather.

00:46:02.320 Things,

00:46:02.860 times were different then.

00:46:03.900 Yeah.

00:46:04.220 You know,

00:46:04.920 and I wish they were,

00:46:05.860 I mean,

00:46:06.560 look,

00:46:06.880 there's value in modern times and technology.

00:46:09.220 Like we wouldn't be having this conversation if it weren't for the technology and people

00:46:12.380 wouldn't be tuning in.

00:46:13.420 There's value in that.

00:46:15.040 But man,

00:46:15.400 I,

00:46:15.560 I just see this withdraw from nature and withdraw from toughness and grittiness and getting

00:46:21.400 dirty and getting roughed up.

00:46:23.100 And you know,

00:46:23.840 my boy last night came downstairs and the first thing he said to me was,

00:46:26.660 dad,

00:46:26.820 do you want to fight?

00:46:27.440 I'm like,

00:46:28.240 yeah,

00:46:28.460 I do want to fight.

00:46:29.220 Let's do it.

00:46:30.120 And I don't see that anymore.

00:46:31.640 I think it's a huge problem.

00:46:34.100 Totally.

00:46:34.340 I was watching your Instagram and I saw the dog,

00:46:37.340 the dog get attacked outside that German shepherd.

00:46:40.580 The German shepherd took me a while.

00:46:41.980 I'm like,

00:46:42.280 that dog went in the house. 0.98

00:46:43.400 Yeah.

00:46:43.800 Is that his dog?

00:46:44.300 That wasn't our dog.

00:46:45.160 That was the neighbor's dog.

00:46:46.240 That was the dog that attacked our dog.

00:46:47.840 Right.

00:46:48.140 Came right inside our house.

00:46:49.760 But everybody runs outside to crush the dog.

00:46:52.080 Yeah.

00:46:52.400 And the dog in your house.

00:46:55.100 But what was cool was you could tell like your son got freaked.

00:46:58.940 Yeah.

00:46:59.200 A little bit.

00:46:59.760 He was scared.

00:47:00.260 He got scared,

00:47:00.980 but he turned right around and he went,

00:47:02.860 he was like,

00:47:03.280 get out of here. 0.93

00:47:04.000 He stood up to that German shepherd or husky, 0.99

00:47:07.000 whatever it was.

00:47:07.660 Husky.

00:47:08.340 And that's what grittiness is.

00:47:11.100 It's acting.

00:47:12.260 We're all going to experience fear,

00:47:13.900 but it's that ability to,

00:47:16.380 to choke it down and exercise courage that makes you successful in life.

00:47:22.540 You know?

00:47:23.220 And without that,

00:47:24.080 I,

00:47:24.280 I feel like there's just too much softness.

00:47:27.200 You know,

00:47:27.860 people are too easily offended as well.

00:47:29.920 Oh,

00:47:30.200 and things that people get outraged about.

00:47:32.680 I'm like,

00:47:33.220 really?

00:47:34.060 Yeah.

00:47:34.400 That's what you're upset about that.

00:47:35.880 That's what's wrecking your day right now.

00:47:38.060 It's pretty crazy to think.

00:47:39.740 How do you build this out?

00:47:41.620 You know,

00:47:41.860 there's guys that are listening to this podcast to understand what we're talking

00:47:44.740 about and they want to be tougher.

00:47:46.680 They want to be grittier.

00:47:47.860 They want to instill this in their children.

00:47:49.940 How do we do that?

00:47:51.480 I'm a big fan of Jocko.

00:47:52.920 Willing.

00:47:53.200 Yeah,

00:47:53.360 of course.

00:47:54.560 Jocko has that book,

00:47:55.940 uh,

00:47:56.320 the warrior kid to me.

00:47:58.380 It's that simple.

00:47:59.440 You know,

00:47:59.920 he talks about a kid that's,

00:48:01.340 uh,

00:48:02.160 let's say afraid to swim,

00:48:03.860 like afraid to get in the water.

00:48:05.380 The kid starts with,

00:48:06.580 okay,

00:48:06.720 we're just going to get my feet wet.

00:48:08.420 I'm just going to sit here in the water with my feet.

00:48:10.720 And then I'm going to go waist deep into the water,

00:48:13.260 you know,

00:48:13.840 I'm going to hang out and stuff.

00:48:15.100 And then I'm going to plug my nose and I'm going to duck under the water.

00:48:18.440 And it's exposure little by little by little,

00:48:22.080 but you set the goal.

00:48:23.560 You know,

00:48:24.080 you don't go from,

00:48:25.200 well,

00:48:25.280 I'm afraid of the water,

00:48:26.280 definitely afraid of the water.

00:48:27.320 I'm afraid I'm going to drown too.

00:48:28.380 I'm just going to jump in and go for it.

00:48:30.380 It's exposure little by little.

00:48:32.840 And pretty soon as you address those tiny little fears,

00:48:36.720 by exposure to the very thing that you're afraid of,

00:48:40.000 or you don't like,

00:48:41.240 and say you just do not like being cold and you just can't stand it.

00:48:45.000 And you want to come back to camp,

00:48:46.180 you know,

00:48:46.580 after just two minutes and five minutes in a tree stand.

00:48:50.060 Well,

00:48:50.600 maybe that's too big of a jump for you right now.

00:48:53.000 Start out with something else.

00:48:54.280 I'm going to stay out for this long,

00:48:56.060 you know,

00:48:56.380 for two hours in this situation.

00:48:58.620 And then I'm going to move into this situation.

00:49:00.820 It's the same thing with like backpacking.

00:49:03.200 People don't like to be uncomfortable.

00:49:04.880 They don't like to be miserable.

00:49:06.540 There's not,

00:49:06.880 which makes sense.

00:49:07.520 It's not obvious.

00:49:08.200 So we understand that,

00:49:09.060 right?

00:49:09.260 Yeah.

00:49:09.600 Yeah.

00:49:09.820 But I feel like back to like the Wim Hof method of what doesn't,

00:49:14.100 I'm reading a book right now.

00:49:14.940 What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

00:49:16.960 Yeah.

00:49:17.200 That's a Scott.

00:49:18.280 What's his name?

00:49:18.740 Yeah.

00:49:19.400 Yeah.

00:49:19.680 He was on the podcast a while.

00:49:20.920 It was really good,

00:49:22.180 dude.

00:49:22.420 I believe in that though.

00:49:25.740 Yeah.

00:49:26.300 We think that back to Wim Hof,

00:49:29.080 we think comfort is where it's at.

00:49:31.720 And that's going to bring us happiness.

00:49:33.740 That's the word.

00:49:34.840 Everybody wants happiness.

00:49:36.260 I'm like,

00:49:36.740 dude,

00:49:36.940 you're,

00:49:37.180 you're,

00:49:37.480 you're taking the path of least resistance to try to find happiness.

00:49:40.640 And I think we,

00:49:42.160 especially as men find anything but that.

00:49:44.720 In that,

00:49:45.280 in that.

00:49:45.860 Absolutely.

00:49:46.700 I think,

00:49:47.620 you know,

00:49:47.960 happiness is a term I don't like to use.

00:49:49.940 I prefer the word joy as it just sort of means just all around contentness with existence.

00:49:56.300 You know,

00:49:57.200 like Wim Hof says,

00:49:58.340 the path to fulfillment and happiness is struggle.

00:50:02.640 It's discomfort.

00:50:04.440 It's pain.

00:50:05.280 My brother did Wim Hof for like six months.

00:50:08.700 Really?

00:50:09.560 11 months where he went every day and got into an icy.

00:50:14.460 Really?

00:50:14.820 Cold stream,

00:50:16.200 you know,

00:50:16.500 neck deep and sat there for 20 minutes.

00:50:19.880 That's crazy.

00:50:20.340 Just breathing.

00:50:21.520 Trying to breathe through that,

00:50:23.160 right?

00:50:23.600 Every day is a challenge.

00:50:25.800 It gets a little easier over time,

00:50:27.520 but it's always miserable.

00:50:29.080 Yeah,

00:50:29.200 because anybody could do it once.

00:50:31.300 Yeah.

00:50:31.440 Or like,

00:50:31.680 I'm going to do this for five days.

00:50:33.360 Five whole days,

00:50:34.400 you're going to do it for months.

00:50:36.140 That's pretty good.

00:50:37.340 Then when you do that,

00:50:38.320 it's like,

00:50:38.700 you don't work up to just that long.

00:50:40.860 At first,

00:50:41.360 it's like two minutes and you're out.

00:50:42.600 Yeah.

00:50:43.060 Then it's three and then it's four and you build up the willpower to be able to do it.

00:50:47.800 And you find yourself going,

00:50:49.340 you know what?

00:50:49.720 Yes, 0.80

00:50:49.940 that's miserable.

00:50:51.060 Like it's pain to be in that.

00:50:52.840 Everything in your body and your mind is screaming,

00:50:55.660 get out of the water,

00:50:56.160 get out of the water,

00:50:56.720 get out of the water.

00:50:57.340 This is so horrible.

00:50:58.140 Get out of the water,

00:50:58.680 get out of the water.

00:50:59.240 And you're suppressing it.

00:51:00.500 You're ignoring it.

00:51:01.120 You're saying,

00:51:01.460 nope,

00:51:02.140 I'm not that way.

00:51:02.960 I'm staying in.

00:51:04.000 And that right there to that exposure,

00:51:06.440 to me,

00:51:07.300 that starts to give you willpower and strength to do things that in other aspects of your life that you normally would shy away from or quit.

00:51:16.160 So to me,

00:51:16.940 it's like the way of the warrior kid.

00:51:18.920 Like Jocko says,

00:51:19.660 it's exposure little by little.

00:51:21.340 I like Jordan B.

00:51:22.100 Peterson.

00:51:22.660 Yeah.

00:51:23.320 Jordan B.

00:51:23.920 Peterson says the same thing when he has a patient or whatever come into his office for mental help.

00:51:29.840 And they have a,

00:51:30.860 an extreme fear of,

00:51:32.480 let's say talking to people or maybe it's going or the zoo.

00:51:36.240 Well,

00:51:36.800 to get people over fears,

00:51:38.960 they have to be exposed to those fears little by little.

00:51:42.420 Go to the pet store or whatever.

00:51:44.120 Yeah.

00:51:44.460 Get started.

00:51:45.260 Gradual phases.

00:51:46.120 That's how you overcome fear.

00:51:47.720 That's how you overcome weakness is exposure little by little until you're able to handle the,

00:51:55.680 the big stuff.

00:51:56.440 And so somebody said the other day,

00:51:58.660 Ryan Carter,

00:51:59.960 who was on here talking about elk hunting.

00:52:01.440 And he's like,

00:52:02.260 I just went like 18 miles round trip in one day to get all,

00:52:05.740 all the cards out of his cameras and check them all.

00:52:09.440 Oh,

00:52:09.820 I think I saw that.

00:52:10.700 And he's like,

00:52:11.200 yeah,

00:52:11.600 he's like 18 miles.

00:52:12.860 And he's like,

00:52:13.240 I don't even think about it anymore.

00:52:14.240 Right.

00:52:14.700 Like this,

00:52:15.220 it doesn't even like,

00:52:16.660 it just do it.

00:52:17.460 Or like,

00:52:17.820 or the guy I think about is cam.

00:52:19.400 And I know you're friends with cam.

00:52:20.560 It's like,

00:52:21.160 guy runs a marathon every day,

00:52:23.000 every day.

00:52:23.260 Literally,

00:52:23.680 not like a lot,

00:52:24.620 but literally a marathon every day.

00:52:27.620 Right.

00:52:27.720 And so when you come across that and when you see something like that,

00:52:31.700 like Ryan said,

00:52:33.100 guys out East are saying,

00:52:34.520 well,

00:52:35.580 you know,

00:52:36.060 man,

00:52:36.960 I won't elk hunt in the mountains of Colorado at 10,000 feet,

00:52:40.540 because if I shoot a bull elk,

00:52:42.380 I'll never get it out.

00:52:44.240 And it's like eight miles from camp.

00:52:46.220 And Ryan's like,

00:52:47.320 I don't even think about that anymore.

00:52:48.660 Yeah.

00:52:48.920 Like eight miles.

00:52:50.100 That's it.

00:52:50.440 Big deal.

00:52:50.860 Like that's just,

00:52:51.800 once you've exposed yourself to that kind of struggle and,

00:52:55.480 and the time and everything,

00:52:56.460 you're like,

00:52:56.780 it's exposure little by little.

00:52:59.040 Right.

00:52:59.200 He's done it so many times.

00:53:00.260 He's like,

00:53:00.580 I know how to cut it up.

00:53:01.960 I know where to hang it,

00:53:02.980 to keep it preserved over the course of days.

00:53:05.660 If it takes me one day,

00:53:06.940 three days,

00:53:07.440 five days to hike it out.

00:53:08.800 I know what I'm doing.

00:53:09.820 I'm okay with that.

00:53:11.200 He's got that kind of figured out and it doesn't scare him.

00:53:14.040 Right.

00:53:14.340 That exposure over time.

00:53:15.540 And then in addition to that,

00:53:16.780 he,

00:53:17.120 he trains harder than maybe even he needs to.

00:53:20.600 Right.

00:53:20.860 So the training is hard,

00:53:22.960 but the test itself,

00:53:24.540 whatever that test looks like,

00:53:25.560 maybe it's a hunt,

00:53:26.240 or a job interview or having a difficult conversation with a,

00:53:31.300 with a friend or a spouse,

00:53:32.880 the test becomes easier because the training was harder.

00:53:36.320 Absolutely.

00:53:36.900 But some of that has to do,

00:53:38.120 some of it is too mental.

00:53:40.000 Like there are too many people.

00:53:43.040 I feel unwilling to suffer for any period of time at all.

00:53:49.460 So if they kill an elk,

00:53:51.400 they're all about maybe the suffering it takes to hike,

00:53:54.440 to find the elk and to point the gun and to pull the trigger and to,

00:53:58.600 and to put their hands on those antlers. 0.99

00:54:00.600 Right.

00:54:00.780 Cause they have the immediate reward and the there's,

00:54:03.080 there's a,

00:54:03.540 I could do that.

00:54:04.940 But then you're telling me,

00:54:06.180 and I could spend four days trying to do that to accomplish that goal.

00:54:08.960 But now you're telling me it's going to take me four days to hike the meat

00:54:12.840 out. 0.99

00:54:13.940 I just want to shoot my head, 1.00

00:54:15.880 right. 1.00

00:54:16.200 Myself in the head.

00:54:16.780 How boring is that?

00:54:17.980 Right.

00:54:18.280 And for my part,

00:54:19.540 I'm like,

00:54:20.000 how exciting is that to be able to hike,

00:54:23.520 physically exert my body in a way day after day to go get this protein that

00:54:30.560 is going to feed my family.

00:54:31.700 It's just four days out of an entire year.

00:54:34.380 And I'm in the wilderness.

00:54:36.520 I'm exercising.

00:54:37.900 I'm breathing hard.

00:54:38.760 I'm sweating,

00:54:39.620 you know,

00:54:39.880 but I'm eating well.

00:54:41.120 You're living prepared.

00:54:42.120 I'm living.

00:54:42.800 I was spending the night there.

00:54:44.520 I'm spending the night at the truck.

00:54:46.000 You know,

00:54:46.340 it depends.

00:54:47.000 And there's a whole process in getting that elk out.

00:54:50.440 And that process in itself is rewarding and fulfilling.

00:54:53.640 Maybe I've got the gritty podcast in my ear or the order of man.

00:54:56.940 You know what I mean?

00:54:57.620 You're getting some entertainment along the way.

00:54:59.800 To me,

00:55:00.160 it's like that hike out is a huge part of what life is all about.

00:55:04.780 And so for other people though,

00:55:05.900 it's like what an utter waste of time.

00:55:08.460 Yeah.

00:55:08.740 Oh yeah.

00:55:09.360 I have people in my life.

00:55:11.120 I've gone to and done different events that I've paid for to be there and to

00:55:16.620 suffer and essentially be miserable and I've paid to do it.

00:55:19.760 Right.

00:55:20.260 And I have people in my life who are like, 1.00

00:55:22.120 you're an idiot. 1.00

00:55:23.520 Why would you pay to go do that? 1.00

00:55:25.200 Like,

00:55:25.460 cause there's value in it.

00:55:27.520 Like there's so much value in doing this.

00:55:30.260 I agree.

00:55:30.960 So yeah,

00:55:31.340 I understand that.

00:55:32.320 Yeah.

00:55:32.500 It is pretty crazy to see how sedentary lifestyles we live.

00:55:36.120 And I mean,

00:55:36.800 we all know the value of hard work.

00:55:38.520 We all know the value of,

00:55:39.780 of training hard and putting yourself in difficult situations.

00:55:42.840 And just yet so few of us actually do it.

00:55:46.060 Well,

00:55:46.480 and you look at the Lakota Indian lifestyle,

00:55:49.040 like I talked about in that podcast three weeks ago or so show I produced.

00:55:54.060 And those people don't live like we do today.

00:55:58.360 You know,

00:55:58.480 they had a teepee and they had like fires that they built and there's a very strong

00:56:03.060 connection to nature and wild places while the animals and they live simply,

00:56:09.260 but peacefully like in a,

00:56:11.080 in a,

00:56:11.440 in a very like fulfilling way.

00:56:13.540 And one of the things that struck me when I first read that book was how as a

00:56:19.100 culture,

00:56:19.460 they looked up to those who would give everything they own away.

00:56:24.240 So they had virtually nothing except themselves that that was considered

00:56:28.840 strength in a warrior to give away all their possessions.

00:56:32.340 So that all that person was left with was their own self.

00:56:36.540 And at the end of the day,

00:56:38.100 isn't that all we really have?

00:56:40.700 You're not taking anything with you.

00:56:42.460 No,

00:56:42.800 no.

00:56:43.780 And plus all those possessions and all those things,

00:56:46.980 all those material trappings,

00:56:48.900 they don't bring you joy and happiness.

00:56:51.720 If you take them all away and they're gone,

00:56:54.820 you get a clear picture of what really matters.

00:56:57.000 My wife got cancer a few years back when she was battling cancer,

00:57:01.020 all the things that I thought were so important to me and mattered to me in

00:57:04.600 life.

00:57:05.640 Absolutely flipped upside down.

00:57:07.700 None of the things that I had been spending all my hours working on all my

00:57:11.320 hours invested in all the time I was working for.

00:57:14.360 None of it mattered to me.

00:57:16.300 One iota.

00:57:17.060 What mattered became very clear.

00:57:19.120 It was my wife,

00:57:20.560 my kids,

00:57:21.420 myself,

00:57:22.240 my wellbeing,

00:57:23.420 my relationships.

00:57:25.320 I then realized too,

00:57:27.280 that a lot of this rat race stuff is just a scam.

00:57:30.540 Oh yeah.

00:57:31.520 Like I've been thinking about this a lot.

00:57:33.180 Yeah.

00:57:33.460 If you give me a bow and arrow,

00:57:35.720 some backpack gear,

00:57:37.260 a little bit of my own freeze dried food and stuff,

00:57:39.480 and let me go into the mountains day after day after day,

00:57:42.960 those aren't expensive items to have.

00:57:45.020 And it's not a real expensive endeavor.

00:57:46.760 And those public lands make it possible.

00:57:49.260 I am as happy or happier there than I am in a posh home with a sweet car doing

00:57:55.840 like whatever.

00:57:57.300 I think you hit,

00:57:58.060 I mean,

00:57:58.400 you hit the nail on the head.

00:57:59.560 This is what I see is like,

00:58:00.800 we spend an insane,

00:58:03.040 and I do this too.

00:58:03.780 I'm not saying you or anybody.

00:58:05.380 I'm saying we as in all of us spend an insane amount of time trying to

00:58:12.440 just clamor for the approval of other people and people.

00:58:16.660 We may not even know people.

00:58:17.960 We may not even like,

00:58:18.960 as opposed to,

00:58:20.760 let me just focus inward,

00:58:23.180 not on myself only,

00:58:24.300 but the people in my circle.

00:58:25.500 Like you said,

00:58:26.160 your wife,

00:58:26.680 your kids,

00:58:27.680 your friends,

00:58:28.360 your family.

00:58:29.040 It is amazing how much approval we seek from other people at our own

00:58:34.640 expense,

00:58:35.520 at our own wellbeing.

00:58:36.680 My wife and I got to this point in life where we had accumulated like 20,

00:58:42.440 $8,000 in revolving debt.

00:58:44.420 I think it was all credit card.

00:58:45.860 We had both really nice cars that we financed from this.

00:58:50.880 Nothing was paid for it.

00:58:51.840 Right.

00:58:52.080 And we had,

00:58:53.300 which standard things when you get out of college and you like start making

00:58:57.300 this is how adults do it.

00:58:58.500 This is how adults got the big house and the big,

00:59:00.660 this,

00:59:00.880 and the nice,

00:59:01.400 that,

00:59:01.680 and we've got a toy hauler.

00:59:03.120 Now you need stuff to put in the toy hauler.

00:59:05.420 Now you got to pay insurance on the toy hauler.

00:59:07.120 And then all my hours were spent working for all that.

00:59:11.320 And I had more freedom in college with all the credits and stuff I was doing

00:59:15.900 in a fly fishing and a fly rod and no possessions.

00:59:18.840 Then I did here where I had all this money that was now borrowed upon.

00:59:24.720 And I was a slave to all these things.

00:59:27.660 And it became clear when a buddy of mine got himself debt free and he gave me the book,

00:59:33.960 the total money makeover by Dave Ramsey.

00:59:36.340 So we went through that and then we did financial peace university with Dave Ramsey in this church

00:59:40.700 group.

00:59:41.340 And,

00:59:41.420 and he calls,

00:59:42.560 uh,

00:59:42.860 getting rid of all you like, 0.91

00:59:44.160 get out of debt at all costs.

00:59:45.400 Just do it.

00:59:46.140 Just get out of debt.

00:59:47.620 Imagine all of it.

00:59:48.980 Student loan to like your house,

00:59:50.780 like how all of it get out of debt.

00:59:52.760 And it was like,

00:59:53.680 dude,

00:59:53.980 can't be done.

00:59:54.520 And at first I scoffed,

00:59:56.440 you know,

00:59:57.360 and then my buddy did it over like a year and a half.

01:00:01.300 Right.

01:00:01.700 We were at similar numbers.

01:00:02.800 It wasn't that long.

01:00:03.340 It wasn't that long.

01:00:04.600 And I saw the sacrifices he was making.

01:00:06.700 Sure.

01:00:06.800 They didn't link to him.

01:00:07.700 I mean,

01:00:08.560 they were deep.

01:00:09.440 They were cut.

01:00:10.000 He cut deep,

01:00:10.700 but at the same time I was like,

01:00:12.320 yeah,

01:00:12.600 so I could get rid of my diesel pickup.

01:00:14.760 I could get rid of the toy hauler,

01:00:16.440 I guess,

01:00:16.800 if it gave me more freedom.

01:00:19.100 Dave Ramsey says,

01:00:20.680 getting out of debt,

01:00:21.280 you don't just wander out of debt.

01:00:22.580 You don't just,

01:00:24.040 oops,

01:00:24.520 now I'm debt free.

01:00:25.760 Yeah.

01:00:26.200 So you don't stumble over.

01:00:27.200 No,

01:00:27.500 he's like,

01:00:27.840 it is a deliberate and intentional amputation of stuff.

01:00:33.880 Like when you cut your arm off,

01:00:35.160 you miss it.

01:00:36.460 It's gone.

01:00:37.280 Right.

01:00:37.640 Like it should cut deep.

01:00:38.980 So when you get out of debt,

01:00:40.320 it's going to feel like an amputation.

01:00:42.300 Cause you're going to amputate your stuff,

01:00:44.640 your stuff,

01:00:46.100 everything that you think is your identity that makes you who you are.

01:00:49.200 You're going to amputate that.

01:00:50.440 Everything you wrapped up into your material things mentally,

01:00:54.160 you're going to amputate that.

01:00:56.340 And then when I started to explore like,

01:00:58.260 okay,

01:00:58.440 how could I do this?

01:00:59.460 What cuts could I make?

01:01:00.480 And how,

01:01:00.920 how could I get out of debt the fastest?

01:01:03.220 Man,

01:01:03.620 if I do that and that,

01:01:05.400 and I get rid of that.

01:01:06.280 And then,

01:01:06.400 and then I,

01:01:07.400 I realized none of that stuff is bringing me joy.

01:01:10.580 So I did,

01:01:12.000 I,

01:01:12.260 I sold this and I sold that.

01:01:13.940 And I,

01:01:14.180 so I sold everything and took a loss,

01:01:17.320 a major loss.

01:01:19.000 Yeah.

01:01:19.560 I paid twice what I sold these things for and more.

01:01:23.440 Some stuff I gave away.

01:01:24.640 I was like,

01:01:25.180 Oh,

01:01:25.640 I paid a thousand bucks for that.

01:01:27.000 And I just got a hundred.

01:01:28.000 It's like,

01:01:28.740 Oh,

01:01:29.280 the goal was get freedom,

01:01:31.820 be free.

01:01:33.280 I ended up selling everything.

01:01:35.060 And I had this $700 Dodge neon that I bought to replace my $40,000 jacked up sweet truck.

01:01:41.920 This neon was rusted out.

01:01:43.800 The headlight would point downward a little bit.

01:01:46.760 There was a mouse living in it.

01:01:48.060 I couldn't,

01:01:48.660 I couldn't,

01:01:49.140 I named him Stuart little.

01:01:50.780 I just couldn't get rid of him.

01:01:52.380 And I drove that to work for a couple of years during this whole process.

01:01:56.400 Yeah.

01:01:56.800 People at work were like,

01:01:58.160 what's,

01:01:58.600 what's going on?

01:01:59.340 Dude, 1.00

01:01:59.900 you look like a loser. 1.00

01:02:01.160 And I'm like, 1.00

01:02:01.660 I don't care.

01:02:02.140 I don't care how bad it looks.

01:02:03.920 I'm free.

01:02:04.820 Yeah.

01:02:04.940 You got a nice car,

01:02:06.120 but guess what?

01:02:07.380 Nobody owns me.

01:02:08.540 And you can sleep at night.

01:02:10.180 And yeah.

01:02:10.660 And yeah.

01:02:11.180 Oh yeah.

01:02:11.500 And so after a while,

01:02:12.980 when I got rid of everything and we had very few possessions left to our name,

01:02:17.500 I realized we could pick up and move anywhere we wanted,

01:02:20.920 whenever we wanted.

01:02:22.360 I could quit jobs.

01:02:23.440 I could stand up to my boss and say, 1.00

01:02:25.200 screw you. 1.00

01:02:26.360 I'm not going to do that. 0.99

01:02:27.280 It's against my ethical beliefs.

01:02:28.820 Like I will not do this.

01:02:30.760 No,

01:02:31.200 you're going to have to.

01:02:32.140 Well then fire them out. 0.88

01:02:33.880 Do it. 0.96

01:02:34.580 Do your worst.

01:02:35.920 And all of a sudden it put me in a position of not being owned by a soul.

01:02:40.820 And the deal is this.

01:02:42.840 If I lost my job,

01:02:44.320 if I lost that,

01:02:46.160 dude,

01:02:46.320 I could go out and work at McDonald's next week and have enough money to pay my bills.

01:02:51.740 Yeah.

01:02:52.260 Yeah.

01:02:52.740 Oh,

01:02:53.040 I don't want that.

01:02:53.740 Yeah.

01:02:54.000 That's not ideal,

01:02:55.340 but you could,

01:02:55.880 I can do it.

01:02:56.740 I can do it.

01:02:57.440 At that point,

01:02:58.600 nobody owned me anymore.

01:03:00.440 And then I also realized the world we live today,

01:03:03.560 hell,

01:03:03.840 I could go out on public land and just live there.

01:03:07.120 Yeah.

01:03:07.460 You know,

01:03:07.820 like,

01:03:08.180 yeah,

01:03:08.520 just get in the back country,

01:03:10.560 follow the games.

01:03:11.260 You might have to move every 21 days or whatever it is.

01:03:14.000 I might have to earn a little bit of money,

01:03:15.560 but you,

01:03:15.980 you could live pretty simply in the country we're in.

01:03:18.660 Just like in a pinch,

01:03:19.740 like nothing was really that big a deal anymore,

01:03:22.060 but that's because I didn't build my value and my life around a set of material things that defined me and brought me happiness.

01:03:31.340 Right.

01:03:31.780 It was all internal at that point since then it makes most all my decisions simple.

01:03:37.740 Now,

01:03:38.260 some people think I'm crazy,

01:03:40.460 but it's just how I am.

01:03:42.680 It works.

01:03:44.000 Yeah.

01:03:44.420 I like what the Lakota says,

01:03:46.220 give away everything.

01:03:47.820 And the more you give away,

01:03:48.860 the more,

01:03:49.300 the more freedom you have,

01:03:51.560 the more you're left with that final bit of what you really are.

01:03:55.480 I think that's why it is.

01:03:56.520 There's such a push for minimalism.

01:03:58.440 You know,

01:03:58.700 I think there's value in that.

01:04:00.120 You know,

01:04:00.280 you look around,

01:04:00.880 I was at my shop the other night as I was preparing to come up here and just looking at all this stuff,

01:04:06.800 you know,

01:04:06.980 I'm like,

01:04:07.360 I haven't used that for two years probably.

01:04:09.980 And it's just,

01:04:10.380 I got this shelf and that shelf and this thing and that thing.

01:04:13.560 And it's like,

01:04:14.080 I don't own this stuff.

01:04:15.800 This stuff owns me,

01:04:17.200 you know,

01:04:17.580 and gosh,

01:04:18.240 the more you can put that stuff out of your life.

01:04:20.320 Look,

01:04:20.700 there's value in having the things that you need and having the right tools and the right equipment to get the job done and stuff like that.

01:04:26.540 But this nice camera,

01:04:27.540 of course.

01:04:27.820 Yeah.

01:04:28.020 And there's value in that,

01:04:29.440 but you don't need 10 cameras.

01:04:31.800 Right.

01:04:32.320 You need the minimum required to get the,

01:04:34.780 well,

01:04:35.000 your brother's like,

01:04:35.580 it may be 10.

01:04:36.420 It's okay.

01:04:37.000 But what you're saying too,

01:04:38.340 like that quote,

01:04:39.300 that friend of mine always told me,

01:04:40.640 and he's like,

01:04:40.980 everything you own owns a little bit of you.

01:04:42.640 Yeah.

01:04:43.220 It's true.

01:04:43.860 Yeah.

01:04:44.120 And that's where it's like,

01:04:45.740 wait a minute.

01:04:46.120 I don't want to be owned.

01:04:47.540 I don't want to be owned.

01:04:48.680 So I'm careful about the possessions I choose to have because with each one comes,

01:04:54.540 comes some,

01:04:55.720 you're,

01:04:55.940 you're,

01:04:56.320 there's a cost associated with it.

01:04:58.080 Yeah,

01:04:58.320 exactly.

01:04:59.160 Well,

01:04:59.480 let's wind it down today.

01:05:00.760 I want to ask you a question.

01:05:01.900 I didn't prepare you for this question,

01:05:03.000 but I've asked every one of my guests.

01:05:04.740 So I got to ask you.

01:05:05.360 Okay.

01:05:05.840 Uh,

01:05:06.080 the question is,

01:05:06.720 what does it mean to be a man?

01:05:08.500 What does it mean to be a man?

01:05:10.600 I could go on for a couple hours.

01:05:12.600 Let's go for another two hours.

01:05:13.600 Yeah.

01:05:14.000 I think I got to explain this by,

01:05:15.580 to me and my way of thinking.

01:05:17.300 That's what we want to hear,

01:05:17.920 man.

01:05:18.080 We want to hear your,

01:05:18.800 your take on it.

01:05:19.820 What does it take to be manly?

01:05:21.940 And I think that requires at the heart of it is in every way possible in every aspect of your life.

01:05:30.500 And this includes to yourself as well as to other people is to tell the truth,

01:05:35.260 tell the truth,

01:05:36.820 be as honest as you can be in all things.

01:05:40.920 That means with yourself.

01:05:43.160 I feel like too many people lie to themselves about maybe their skills or their talents,

01:05:49.280 or there's,

01:05:50.920 we live in a victimhood mentality today where people don't take extreme ownership.

01:05:55.120 I think to take extreme ownership of your life and of life,

01:05:58.880 you have to tell the truth.

01:06:01.020 Ego is the enemy says ego is the thing that robs you of everything that you are,

01:06:07.900 everything and everything that you could be and everything you want now.

01:06:11.760 So it's like ego at the heart of ego is,

01:06:14.620 is a lie.

01:06:15.420 A lie you tell yourself about why you're not as successful.

01:06:18.940 Or why this person cheated you or why this,

01:06:21.780 everything's a victim thing.

01:06:23.580 I think telling the truth is what it means to be a man.

01:06:27.520 Because from there,

01:06:28.820 all the other things can like flow out of that,

01:06:31.380 out of that honesty.

01:06:33.560 There's a lot of other ways I could define it as well.

01:06:35.800 That's powerful though.

01:06:36.660 I mean,

01:06:36.820 that's so true.

01:06:37.760 I love that.

01:06:38.340 It is the,

01:06:38.760 it is the foundational,

01:06:40.120 just being real,

01:06:41.000 right?

01:06:41.300 Is the foundational element for growth and progress in every facet of your life.

01:06:45.540 Absolutely.

01:06:46.200 Yeah.

01:06:46.440 How hard is it though?

01:06:48.320 Oh,

01:06:48.680 for people to be,

01:06:49.600 I,

01:06:49.880 I do,

01:06:50.320 I find myself lying to myself every day.

01:06:52.640 It's like a roll call.

01:06:53.660 Like I have to go,

01:06:54.960 wait a minute.

01:06:55.680 Now you just lost,

01:06:57.200 you know,

01:06:58.380 you just lost.

01:06:59.200 Like you dry fired your bow.

01:07:02.140 That was you.

01:07:03.140 Yeah.

01:07:03.420 There might've been 10 people watching.

01:07:05.360 Like in my case,

01:07:06.200 we're,

01:07:06.400 we're,

01:07:06.660 we're compadres.

01:07:07.700 I think I had five or six,

01:07:09.580 but yeah,

01:07:09.960 there was enough there.

01:07:10.800 I had like seven or eight,

01:07:12.000 like watching me.

01:07:13.140 So for people listening,

01:07:14.520 like we both dry fired our bows at the tack in,

01:07:18.100 uh,

01:07:18.580 in snowbird.

01:07:20.260 And I can come up with a billion excuses for it.

01:07:23.620 Right.

01:07:23.900 At the end of the day though,

01:07:25.060 you did it.

01:07:25.640 I did it.

01:07:26.020 I did it.

01:07:26.720 I did it.

01:07:27.460 I messed up.

01:07:28.620 My bow didn't blow up.

01:07:30.180 It just kind of got a little,

01:07:31.680 the string was like a little broken here and there,

01:07:34.240 but it stayed in.

01:07:35.380 It stayed all right.

01:07:35.900 Yeah.

01:07:37.260 But I think that that's it.

01:07:39.020 You,

01:07:39.240 you,

01:07:39.780 but you live and learn when you accept that.

01:07:41.240 Right.

01:07:41.480 Like if you don't accept that,

01:07:43.300 you could blame the people that were there.

01:07:44.840 You're like,

01:07:45.220 why didn't you tell me?

01:07:47.560 Yeah.

01:07:47.840 And I didn't get enough sleep.

01:07:48.940 And this guy did this.

01:07:50.140 You were talking,

01:07:51.500 you know,

01:07:51.860 how many times do we do that?

01:07:53.100 And it's like,

01:07:53.640 just own it.

01:07:54.740 But then you don't grow.

01:07:56.220 Like that's easy temporarily,

01:07:57.480 but then things get harder because you didn't learn the experience.

01:08:00.980 And sometimes,

01:08:01.860 you know,

01:08:02.120 like you getting lost out in the wilderness. 0.99

01:08:04.500 That sucks. 1.00

01:08:05.680 That was your fault. 0.99

01:08:06.760 You knew you shouldn't have done that and made some,

01:08:08.800 some decisions that you shouldn't have made,

01:08:10.320 but you owned it.

01:08:11.680 And now,

01:08:12.220 you know,

01:08:12.580 and you're not going to do that again.

01:08:13.960 Right.

01:08:14.720 At least in that same way.

01:08:16.200 Yeah.

01:08:17.120 And I think each time you own those moments,

01:08:20.080 that's like you said,

01:08:21.500 it's foundation for growth.

01:08:22.500 Yeah.

01:08:22.940 Being real.

01:08:23.680 So that's why I say,

01:08:24.880 tell the truth.

01:08:25.540 I like it.

01:08:26.020 Well,

01:08:26.480 how do we connect with you?

01:08:27.360 Learn more about what you're up to.

01:08:28.580 You've got some awesome videos.

01:08:30.000 I watch your videos.

01:08:30.860 Your podcast is great.

01:08:32.360 How do the guys connect with you?

01:08:33.860 Well,

01:08:34.160 on Instagram,

01:08:35.040 I'm Brian,

01:08:35.820 B-R-I-A-N underscore call. 0.99

01:08:38.760 And then you can find me on Facebook.

01:08:42.180 It's Brian call gritty.

01:08:43.680 Right now we have a website.

01:08:45.420 It's grittybowman.com.

01:08:47.640 We might change that.

01:08:49.300 We've got a few URLs we're looking at,

01:08:51.020 but we're doing kind of a rebranding around gritty.

01:08:53.380 Yeah.

01:08:53.940 Which has been good.

01:08:54.800 It's been good.

01:08:55.460 I like it.

01:08:56.760 It gives me the freedom.

01:08:58.200 Like I always wanted the show to be about all things gritty period.

01:09:01.920 What I considered grit and gritty,

01:09:04.060 not just bow hunting.

01:09:05.840 Bow hunting is a major part of what I think grittiness is,

01:09:09.280 you know,

01:09:09.900 can be,

01:09:11.020 but I want to talk about life too.

01:09:13.300 I want to talk about cultivating that grittiness that,

01:09:17.100 that I want all people to have,

01:09:18.700 man or woman.

01:09:19.260 So we're going through that,

01:09:22.460 but you can find on our YouTube channel.

01:09:24.320 I would love for people to go and watch the films,

01:09:27.120 click on our playlist,

01:09:28.580 you know,

01:09:28.840 and find the films playlist.

01:09:30.540 They're awesome.

01:09:30.900 I mean,

01:09:31.040 I'll watch the last couple,

01:09:32.380 which was the,

01:09:33.060 the bear hunt and then the tar in New Zealand.

01:09:36.000 Yep.

01:09:36.220 And those,

01:09:36.860 those two films are just a whole nother level from what we produced in the

01:09:41.420 past.

01:09:42.340 And then I,

01:09:43.320 I do some more riots that were launching on August 12th.

01:09:47.760 We're going to give away a lot of free stuff,

01:09:49.880 try to encourage people to go.

01:09:51.340 I look at this and there's a lot of good film and video that comes up and

01:09:55.040 people tell me about it.

01:09:55.920 You should go watch it,

01:09:56.960 but I'm busy.

01:09:58.080 You're busy.

01:09:58.860 Like we're doing our things and,

01:10:01.420 and it's hard to take the time to go.

01:10:03.960 And you and I talked about this.

01:10:05.120 I can listen to a podcast because I can be driving in a car.

01:10:08.000 Right.

01:10:08.780 While I'm,

01:10:09.460 while you're doing something else,

01:10:10.320 I can be doing construction or mowing a lawn,

01:10:12.980 do two things at once.

01:10:14.100 But when you sit down and watch a film,

01:10:15.600 like you're dedicated,

01:10:16.800 you got to give it attention.

01:10:17.760 Yeah.

01:10:18.140 And so it's,

01:10:19.100 it's hard to get people to watch that,

01:10:20.520 but,

01:10:20.900 but I would really appreciate it.

01:10:22.620 I think that that tar film and that bear film,

01:10:24.460 they speak to me and they're,

01:10:26.080 you know,

01:10:26.540 the tar film is not a glorious moment for me.

01:10:28.580 Yeah.

01:10:28.700 I mean,

01:10:28.900 you were true.

01:10:29.360 You were real in that,

01:10:30.240 you know,

01:10:30.480 you didn't just show the highlights,

01:10:31.740 which I appreciated.

01:10:33.680 I just missed,

01:10:35.020 you know,

01:10:35.380 trying to own that too,

01:10:36.860 but it's a good film.

01:10:38.180 I think people should,

01:10:39.420 uh,

01:10:39.880 that are into this kind of thing should go and check that out.

01:10:43.800 And the bear hunt touches me because I've always had an appreciation for bears,

01:10:48.060 but I hunt them and that that's hard for people to reconcile.

01:10:51.420 Yeah.

01:10:51.660 It's an interesting kill bears,

01:10:53.340 but you really care about them.

01:10:55.780 So I tried to,

01:10:56.820 in the film explain that a little bit and kind of the way I see it as bears,

01:11:01.560 they eat the same food we eat.

01:11:03.560 Right.

01:11:03.840 Like they move into cities and they get to a certain population.

01:11:07.040 Like the bears are going to die.

01:11:08.800 They're going to die one way or another.

01:11:10.160 So we can either participate in that and kind of manage that and be part of that process, 0.98

01:11:14.400 or we can kind of outsource it to like a fish and game agency or contract killer to come in and trap them and kill them.

01:11:21.160 Or we can try to do this thing where we just sort of let nature do its thing,

01:11:25.060 which is a big mistake because then there's 300 million pounds of meat that humans consume a year from wild game.

01:11:33.000 And what happens when you feed it to all the bears?

01:11:35.160 Right.

01:11:35.740 Like it just doesn't make sense.

01:11:36.680 Like,

01:11:37.000 is that really a use of our resources?

01:11:39.140 Well,

01:11:39.260 I mean,

01:11:39.440 we've been doing this tens of thousands of years.

01:11:41.960 We've been managing and conserving the land,

01:11:44.380 working the land.

01:11:45.440 You look at the native American,

01:11:46.880 right?

01:11:47.100 That's what I,

01:11:47.620 that whole podcast before the West is wild is about the fact that they,

01:11:51.160 they hunted and they killed.

01:11:53.260 Right.

01:11:53.720 Animals,

01:11:54.260 but they conserve them and they cared about them and they,

01:11:57.140 and they were connected and they were,

01:11:58.820 yeah,

01:11:59.160 it's absolutely natural.

01:12:01.280 And they're not at odds with each other.

01:12:02.760 No,

01:12:03.040 you can conserve and you can care and have a deep connection with nature.

01:12:06.720 And at the same time,

01:12:08.120 harvest it in an ethical way that helps.

01:12:12.020 To be honest,

01:12:12.660 in my raw opinion,

01:12:14.460 I almost feel like it's very difficult for someone to have that appreciation if they don't actually partake.

01:12:21.160 Well,

01:12:21.260 I don't think they have the,

01:12:22.280 they cert,

01:12:22.760 I mean,

01:12:22.940 maybe,

01:12:23.360 but they certainly don't have the full picture.

01:12:25.380 Yeah.

01:12:25.580 If the native American Indian never killed a Buffalo, 0.99

01:12:28.720 are they going to care about the Buffalo the same as when they take it and they use every bit of it?

01:12:33.660 Like the gratitude toward its existence is so much deeper when you kill it and use it.

01:12:40.220 Yeah. 0.98

01:12:40.400 That's my opinion.

01:12:41.400 And I think it sounds weird to people that grow up in the soft culture we're in.

01:12:44.940 Yeah.

01:12:45.340 But I think it's true.

01:12:46.400 A hundred percent.

01:12:46.720 That's why I like to see people get into hunting because then they acknowledge where their food comes from

01:12:51.480 and they develop an appreciation for wildlife in a way that right now they take for granted.

01:12:56.980 Yeah.

01:12:57.100 Well,

01:12:57.820 we'll link everything up so the guys know where to go.

01:12:59.560 I appreciate that,

01:12:59.980 man.

01:13:00.000 I appreciate you.

01:13:00.780 Appreciate this conversation.

01:13:01.800 I've been looking forward to it for about a month now.

01:13:03.680 And yeah,

01:13:05.040 I mean,

01:13:05.240 your conservation efforts,

01:13:06.380 which is something we probably ought to talk about in the future and everything you're doing with public lands is really,

01:13:10.200 really valuable and important as well.

01:13:11.840 So I'm getting behind that and I'll be sharing with that as well.

01:13:14.480 So appreciate you,

01:13:15.220 man.

01:13:15.520 Awesome.

01:13:16.220 Thanks,

01:13:16.520 Ryan.

01:13:16.780 Appreciate it.

01:13:18.480 There it is.

01:13:19.060 Gentlemen,

01:13:19.340 my conversation with the one and only Brian call,

01:13:21.680 AKA gritty.

01:13:22.640 I hope that you enjoyed the conversation as you heard.

01:13:25.680 And as you've heard over the past couple of months,

01:13:27.720 we're really changing up these podcasts,

01:13:29.640 a lot more conversational.

01:13:30.780 They're going a little bit longer.

01:13:32.240 We're diving deeper into some of these subjects,

01:13:34.240 extracting a lot more stories and wisdom.

01:13:36.620 I feel it's been a good change.

01:13:38.280 I've gotten some great feedback.

01:13:40.120 Download numbers are up.

01:13:41.280 I'm getting messages from you guys.

01:13:43.000 It seems to be going very well.

01:13:44.900 Let me know what you think,

01:13:45.960 what you like,

01:13:46.700 what you don't like,

01:13:47.420 how you would change it,

01:13:48.100 how you would improve it.

01:13:48.980 I'm trying to make this again,

01:13:49.980 a great resource for you.

01:13:51.720 And man,

01:13:52.340 this,

01:13:52.600 this conversation with Brian was just,

01:13:54.340 it was so powerful because we shared so many great stories.

01:13:57.160 And if you're not following what he's doing,

01:13:59.580 I'm going to link everything up in the show notes,

01:14:01.420 go check it out,

01:14:02.560 go watch his,

01:14:03.760 his films.

01:14:04.700 They're absolutely incredible.

01:14:06.700 And he doesn't pull punches or just share the highlight reels.

01:14:09.460 I mean,

01:14:09.560 he shares the entire thing,

01:14:11.740 the good,

01:14:12.160 the bad,

01:14:12.580 the ugly.

01:14:13.340 And I think you're going to extract a lot of wisdom and just enjoy and be

01:14:16.340 entertained from those as well.

01:14:17.660 So check those out.

01:14:18.960 I'll make sure those films are linked up in the show notes as well.

01:14:22.260 Again,

01:14:22.700 guys,

01:14:23.020 just appreciate you being here.

01:14:24.240 Appreciate you being on this path.

01:14:25.440 We could not do it without you.

01:14:26.680 And it's my job to in a way enlist an army of men who understands exactly what it means

01:14:32.100 to be a man and then does something about it,

01:14:34.620 goes out into the world and provides value and adds value to their family and their

01:14:38.400 businesses and their communities and neighbors and every facet of life.

01:14:41.700 So we can talk about being a better man,

01:14:43.780 but unless we're willing to do something about it and actually go out into the world and share

01:14:48.620 what that means and lead through example with love and kindness and compassion,

01:14:52.740 but also toughness and,

01:14:54.200 and resilience and grit.

01:14:56.140 Those are the things that make us men.

01:14:58.100 So go out there,

01:14:59.500 be a man,

01:15:00.280 add value in people's lives,

01:15:02.220 share this message.

01:15:03.140 More people need to hear it.

01:15:04.840 And,

01:15:05.120 uh,

01:15:05.300 I'm glad that you're on this mission with me.

01:15:06.800 So until next week,

01:15:08.720 take action and become the man you are meant to be.

01:15:13.120 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:15:16.000 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:15:19.800 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

01:15:26.140 Thank you.

Order of Man - August 21, 2018

179： How to Develop More Grit ｜ Brian Call

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