Order of Man - AARON HALE ｜ Re-Sizing Your Ego

00:00:00.000 Men, we're all tempted at times to allow our ego to get the better of us.

00:00:04.320 Many of us feel like we're on top of the world

00:00:06.880 until the precise time we find ourselves on the bottom of it.

00:00:11.900 My guest today, Aaron Hale, found himself in just that scenario

00:00:15.160 as an explosive ordnance disposal EOD tech

00:00:18.780 on a routine assignment where he was blown up

00:00:22.100 by an improvised explosive device

00:00:24.500 that caused him to lose sight and later his hearing.

00:00:27.740 Today, we talk about the fear of being stuck

00:00:29.980 gratitude for our struggles and adversities

00:00:32.880 overcoming our greatest fears

00:00:35.520 how positivity and negativity are infectious

00:00:38.560 and how you personally can resize your ego

00:00:41.580 or alternatively, have it resized for you.

00:00:45.560 You're a man of action.

00:00:47.080 You live life to the fullest.

00:00:48.540 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:51.220 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time.

00:00:54.840 Every time.

00:00:55.940 You are not easily deterred or defeated.

00:00:58.240 Rugged.

00:00:59.000 Resilient.

00:01:00.060 Strong.

00:01:00.960 This is your life.

00:01:02.080 This is who you are.

00:01:03.480 This is who you will become.

00:01:05.220 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:01:08.240 you can call yourself a man.

00:01:10.180 Men, welcome to the Order of Man podcast.

00:01:14.200 I am Ryan Michler.

00:01:15.540 I'm your host and the founder of this movement.

00:01:17.360 We've been going for 10 plus years strong,

00:01:19.520 and that's because of you.

00:01:20.900 Not because of me, not because of my guests,

00:01:23.140 but because you listen, tune in, apply,

00:01:25.480 and become better men yourselves, and also share.

00:01:28.080 So if you have any positive encounter or engagement

00:01:33.540 or experience with what we're doing here with Order of Man,

00:01:36.340 please go ahead and share it.

00:01:37.480 And this one is going to be no different

00:01:39.760 because you're going to want to share this one.

00:01:41.300 This is a podcast and conversation with an incredible man

00:01:44.900 who lost not only his sight, but also his hearing

00:01:48.280 because of his service to this country.

00:01:51.160 I'm going to introduce you to him in just a minute,

00:01:53.720 but before I do, I also want to talk about some other good people

00:01:57.480 over at Montana Knife Company.

00:02:00.260 Now, look, if you're carrying a knife,

00:02:02.820 and a lot of you guys are,

00:02:04.620 one of the issues that I had is that my knives in the past

00:02:07.740 could just not hold an edge, and so I needed an upgrade.

00:02:11.520 And Montana Knife Company is building some of the best blades in the world,

00:02:14.960 and the best thing about it, they're all made here in the U.S.

00:02:19.000 These knives, they're lightweight, they're sharp,

00:02:21.680 and they're built to be used, not just sit on a shelf and look good.

00:02:25.320 So whether you're in the backcountry or on the job site or in the kitchen

00:02:30.040 or just need a reliable everyday carry,

00:02:34.020 Montana Knife Company delivers quality that you can trust,

00:02:37.400 and they've got a lifetime warranty.

00:02:39.540 I've sent a lot of my knives in and had them resharpened,

00:02:43.240 and that's one of the best parts about what they do.

00:02:45.900 But their drops, as you probably know, they sell out very fast

00:02:48.800 because they don't mass produce these things.

00:02:50.840 They handcraft them.

00:02:52.440 So don't wait.

00:02:53.300 Go over to montananifecompany.com.

00:02:57.060 They've got a lot of knives in stock right now.

00:02:59.260 They're constantly dropping new batches, new knives, new orders.

00:03:04.480 So make sure you head over to montananifecompany.com.

00:03:08.080 And then when you end up finding the knife that you want

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00:03:17.700 on Montana Knife Company American-Made Knives.

00:03:22.080 All right, guys, let me introduce you to my guest.

00:03:24.360 His name is Aaron Hale.

00:03:25.620 He's a U.S. Army veteran.

00:03:28.260 He's a former EOD, which stands for Explosive Ordnance Disposal Tech.

00:03:33.280 And he's a very powerful example of resilience in the face of adversity.

00:03:38.880 During his time in military service, Aaron completed a tour with the Navy,

00:03:43.420 then made the right decision, the right call,

00:03:46.040 and transitioned over to the Army.

00:03:47.960 He deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan.

00:03:50.240 And in 2011, he was disarming an IED in Afghanistan.

00:03:56.440 He was severely injured.

00:03:58.440 He lost his eyesight.

00:04:00.140 And then later, he lost his hearing due to some complications from that.

00:04:03.920 We talk about that in the podcast.

00:04:05.480 But despite these life-altering injuries,

00:04:08.980 he really refused to be defined by what he was going through.

00:04:12.220 So since his recovery, he's become a motivational speaker,

00:04:15.880 an entrepreneur, a real estate investor, an advocate for veterans.

00:04:20.320 But through his story, Aaron really inspires audiences around the world

00:04:24.840 to embrace hardships as opportunity for growth and purpose and service.

00:04:30.540 And his life is a testament to his warrior spirit.

00:04:33.120 Relentless, he's courageous, and he's committed to making a difference.

00:04:39.660 Aaron, it's great to see you, man.

00:04:41.000 Thanks for joining me on the podcast today.

00:04:44.340 Hey, thanks for having me.

00:04:46.460 Yeah, I'm fascinated with your story because, you know,

00:04:50.560 you and I both served in the military.

00:04:52.880 You ended up having, if I understand correctly,

00:04:57.380 IED exploded, and that's how you lost your vision.

00:05:01.540 Is that correct?

00:05:03.060 Absolutely correct.

00:05:04.040 Yeah, I was an EOD tech, so I was working, I was on the job.

00:05:07.100 And I was, this was Afghanistan, 2011.

00:05:13.620 So I was, it was a roadside IED, same thing we were working on, you know, the entire time.

00:05:22.440 Just one of those vegetable jugs with a pressure plate IED.

00:05:26.400 It was very homemade, very simple.

00:05:27.840 And I had it all taken apart, but I was collecting evidence.

00:05:32.760 There was a secondary device not far from the first.

00:05:36.840 And unfortunately, I discovered that by stepping on it.

00:05:41.840 Oh, man.

00:05:43.060 So you stepped on this.

00:05:44.460 Was it the same type of IED that the first one was?

00:05:49.300 Or was it a little bit different setup for the second one?

00:05:52.720 Well, unfortunately, I didn't get to investigate that one.

00:05:57.380 And what we suspect is, yes.

00:06:02.020 There was, it was just completely barren dirt all around.

00:06:06.640 And somehow, I got a chunk of wood stuck in my hand.

00:06:12.780 So we're guessing that was from the plywood of the pressure plate.

00:06:17.600 And it's, it was literally, of the hundreds of IEDs we were finding out there,

00:06:24.680 I'd only ever done maybe a handful that were not exactly the same.

00:06:31.020 They were just littered all over the place.

00:06:33.060 And they were exactly the same.

00:06:35.300 Oh, my goodness.

00:06:36.220 So you, so you lost your sight.

00:06:39.200 What other injuries did you sustain in that, in that explosion?

00:06:43.000 Well, the blast, this is the strangest thing, okay?

00:06:47.280 So the, the things the insurgents were doing,

00:06:53.760 they didn't really understand the components of the, the, the science behind it.

00:06:58.500 They think it was just kind of magic.

00:06:59.820 And what they didn't understand was how we were detecting them with these magic wand metal detectors.

00:07:07.640 But they figured out that we were finding the IEDs with, through, because of the batteries.

00:07:16.060 So these nine-volt batteries.

00:07:18.980 So what they would do, because there's no other metal except just the thin, like, the lamp cord wire, the connecting it all.

00:07:27.180 So what they would do is they would kind of fairly, they run the battery out around like a mud wall or just off to the, you know, just set it off a little bit.

00:07:37.500 And I don't know how they did this, but I stepped on the pressure plate, and I did not get touched virtually unscathed from the neck down.

00:07:53.400 The blast hit me right in the head, and I'm guessing that's because somebody had not, instead of offsetting the battery, or maybe they offset the battery,

00:08:07.380 but they also offset the pressure plate and didn't put it on, on top of the charge.

00:08:13.060 So it must have been just off to the side, and the hard pack earth just kind of channeled it, and the blast hit me from the side.

00:08:22.980 And what happened was it kind of crushed my face a little bit.

00:08:26.960 It took both of my eyes, gone, and it blew up my eardrums, but I still had some, you know, just hearing.

00:08:34.940 I still had my hearing at the time, and it cracked my skull.

00:08:39.500 So I was actually leaking spinal fluid right out my house.

00:08:44.840 So they medevaced me back to Kandahar.

00:08:48.760 Within 48 hours, I was at Walter Reed, and yeah, I got some pretty good TBI.

00:08:56.340 I was knocked silly, but I was actually conscious up until the point they got me on the medevac chopper.

00:09:06.020 Really?

00:09:06.460 But I was a little loopy.

00:09:09.660 I spent 24 hours in Landstuhl in Germany, and as they're about to wheel me out,

00:09:17.060 they wanted to keep me under, you know, supervision for about 24 hours.

00:09:21.960 Because of the pressure in my brain, the swelling, they didn't want me to do that transatlantic flight.

00:09:27.140 So when they were packing me up and ready to wheel me out onto the flight to send me to Walter Reed,

00:09:37.960 the nurse said, hey, would you like to meet Tom Cruise?

00:09:43.220 And I was like, I must be.

00:09:48.580 What's going on here?

00:09:49.780 What is going on?

00:09:50.620 Are you messing with me or something?

00:09:52.980 And I was like, no, no, no.

00:09:54.740 I guess he was, it was like Mission Impossible 14 or something.

00:10:00.520 And he was visiting the troops.

00:10:03.220 He was doing some kind of, you know, like, you know, the presser in Germany.

00:10:06.660 And he came by to say thanks for the, so it wheels me out.

00:10:10.580 And right on the tarmac, I'm shaking hands with Tom Cruise.

00:10:13.520 I'm like, this is so surreal.

00:10:15.320 Oh, my goodness.

00:10:16.220 You probably, like, are thinking, am I in a dream?

00:10:18.740 Or is this, you know, the injury speaking right here?

00:10:21.400 I can't even imagine what that would be like.

00:10:23.180 That was within the first 24 hours of the incident?

00:10:26.440 It was, yeah.

00:10:27.820 Whoa.

00:10:28.560 That is what, so you were, yeah, you were awake.

00:10:30.360 You were completely conscious, it sounds like, then.

00:10:34.680 I was, I was kind of in and out.

00:10:38.460 And, of course, everything had gone black.

00:10:42.700 So, I'm kind of trying to piece together what's going on.

00:10:47.880 Of course, you know, I had TBI.

00:10:51.740 I was fairly concussed.

00:10:54.480 And it was kind of a whirlwind of doctors and nurses and bandages.

00:10:59.180 And, you know, Kandahar and airplanes to Germany and more hospitals.

00:11:08.200 And then to Walter Reed.

00:11:09.980 And even there, it was a whirlwind.

00:11:12.320 And that's, you know, Walter Reed is in Bethesda.

00:11:15.100 It's right on the Beltway.

00:11:16.780 And there were just people coming and going.

00:11:20.460 Orderlies, nurses, doctors.

00:11:22.060 And they wanted to keep an eye on me because of the swelling and the cracks in my skull.

00:11:28.760 So, there was like a 24-hour watch just in there, a presence around the clock.

00:11:35.920 And sometimes, this is one of the strangest things, too, is that when you lose a sense, your brain kind of goes into this emergency mode.

00:11:55.200 Like, I lost my sight suddenly.

00:11:57.960 So, it started hallucinating.

00:11:59.520 I started hallucinating visions.

00:12:01.580 Like, it was throwing up random images onto this blank, you know, screen trying to figure out.

00:12:09.320 And it was pretty, some weird stuff.

00:12:12.820 But then, there'd be somebody talking.

00:12:15.400 And I'm like, oh, there really is somebody in the room because they're keeping an eye on me.

00:12:20.560 But all that being said, though, with everything going on, I didn't really have time for it to really sink in.

00:12:30.240 Until, I don't know.

00:12:32.700 I went through a few surgeries.

00:12:35.180 I had some burns, cuts.

00:12:37.060 I was pulling gravel out of my gums.

00:12:40.560 And they tried to repair one of my eyes because one was completely gone.

00:12:49.840 The other one had like a gash across it from a piece of frag, but they thought they could save it.

00:12:57.100 Okay.

00:12:57.340 But, um, the, uh, you know, came out of that.

00:13:03.640 The doctor flashed, you know, his, his, uh, little, little pen light into my eye.

00:13:09.860 And he said, do you, do you see anything?

00:13:12.260 Nope.

00:13:13.060 Nothing.

00:13:13.900 Mm-hmm.

00:13:14.480 Yeah.

00:13:14.780 That was it.

00:13:15.940 That was when it really, you know, sank in.

00:13:19.620 This is for real.

00:13:20.460 Yeah.

00:13:20.740 This is for keeps.

00:13:22.640 And I'm going to be blind for the rest of my life.

00:13:25.960 Yeah.

00:13:26.340 What were those, what were those early days like?

00:13:28.640 I mean, what was your, your mental state?

00:13:31.720 What, I mean, obviously, you know, a little loopy, I'm sure you had the surgery, so I'm

00:13:36.020 sure you're passing in and out of consciousness.

00:13:39.080 Um, but what do you remember about how you felt about yourself?

00:13:44.520 Did you feel sorry for yourself?

00:13:46.740 Were you worried about your guys?

00:13:48.100 Like, what, what was your mental state in those moments?

00:13:51.080 Well, you were in the military and you know how we put up those protective walls, you know,

00:13:57.820 we, we act tough, right?

00:14:00.440 And this is most, most guys were builders, were protectors, were the tough ones.

00:14:06.940 And, you know, I was putting on a strong front for everybody and probably more, mostly

00:14:15.820 for me.

00:14:16.600 But yeah, uh, I was, I was angry.

00:14:21.000 Uh, I was, I was depressed.

00:14:23.000 I was, I felt like a failure.

00:14:25.540 I was, I mean, I was, I was angry at everybody, you know, the, the, the, the president, the

00:14:31.740 military, you know, the rules of engagement changing every 10 minutes.

00:14:34.980 And of course the, the, the enemy, but mostly I was, I was angry at myself for failing.

00:14:41.900 You know, I would, I was an EOD tech, the military's bomb squad.

00:14:46.800 And this was our job.

00:14:48.660 I did this over and over and over again.

00:14:50.680 It was the same thing.

00:14:51.800 And I, I was, I was good. 0.99

00:14:55.700 And they got me with this rudimentary, you know, low tech, silly piece of junk. 0.94

00:15:05.020 You know, stuff you can, you stuff you can get, you can build out of your, you know, kitchen 0.96

00:15:09.120 pantry.

00:15:10.320 And that's what they got me.

00:15:12.060 Uh, but you know, you gotta go, I guess you gotta, you gotta go through those.

00:15:20.000 You gotta feel the, you know, the emotions.

00:15:22.160 You gotta go through those phases of grief and all of that.

00:15:27.620 And I circled back to a couple of things that I really had on my, uh, uh, you know, working

00:15:36.020 in my favor.

00:15:37.280 And one was an incredible family.

00:15:39.660 Uh, my, my family has been through trauma, been tragedy before my kid brother, six years

00:15:46.360 younger than me, he was in a, uh, debilitating, uh, uh, roadside construction accident.

00:15:54.660 Oh, and it forever changed.

00:15:58.900 And my mom, you know, was right by his side for months as he was in a coma and had to, you

00:16:06.200 know, go through all of his rehabilitation.

00:16:07.920 Um, and then, man, when she, when she came in to the hospital for the first time, you know,

00:16:17.200 she came in with this, yeah, of course, the bright voice of, you know, my mom, hey, honey.

00:16:24.700 And all I could think of was, I'm so sorry I did this to your other son.

00:16:30.680 And besides the family, I mean, of course, my, my sister also, the middle child, uh, became

00:16:43.520 a pediatric ICU nurse.

00:16:45.120 So, she came in, like, like, nurse in charge of the whole ward, translating jargon and telling

00:16:52.960 the doctors and the other nurses who actually worked there, you know, you will be doing

00:16:57.560 this.

00:16:58.100 You will be.

00:16:58.680 I want, I want to see these tests and I want to see, and I was like.

00:17:03.200 This was at, uh, Walter Reed or?

00:17:05.340 Yes.

00:17:05.540 Or after the fact.

00:17:06.380 Okay.

00:17:06.780 Yeah.

00:17:07.040 Oh, that's funny.

00:17:08.240 And, yeah.

00:17:09.120 And she's, she's like, I, I got you, bud.

00:17:11.560 I got you, I got you, big brother.

00:17:13.240 I'm like, easy.

00:17:15.040 But it was awesome.

00:17:17.980 It was great.

00:17:18.800 Uh, just having that kind of support.

00:17:21.540 It, as it sunk in, and I was, you know, and I knew I was feeling sorry for myself.

00:17:28.840 And I realized that I wasn't the only one in that hospital.

00:17:35.660 You know, I, there were, you know, warriors up and down those halls.

00:17:40.820 Just, you know, they fight their own fight.

00:17:42.960 Do it, you know, they're going through their own personal battle and I had no, no monopoly

00:17:47.080 on pain.

00:17:48.360 All right.

00:17:48.720 Who was I to say that mine was like the worst ever.

00:17:52.800 I, I, I had some kind of an excuse for quitting, you know, giving up on life.

00:17:56.780 And so, in fact, uh, one, one of my fellow, you know, EOD team leaders in my company was,

00:18:04.900 was actually injured two weeks before me and he was just down the hall.

00:18:08.320 So he comes wheeling in on his wheelchair and the guy, the guy's hilarious.

00:18:15.820 He goes, give me your hand.

00:18:17.120 I'm like, why?

00:18:17.780 You got to feel this.

00:18:18.580 I'm like, oh no, this is the military.

00:18:20.820 I got to want to, I do not want to feel whatever you're going to put in my hand.

00:18:24.420 I know, I don't know what's going on, you know, but.

00:18:26.780 He takes, takes my hand and he slaps it up under his chin to feel all this like, it's

00:18:32.700 double, this growth.

00:18:34.240 He goes, hey, the Marines have this attache liaison guy.

00:18:39.860 As soon as they get, you know, we're talking EOD techs because they're across the branches.

00:18:43.900 And he goes, the other, the Marine EOD techs, they got this liaison guy who, as soon as

00:18:49.700 they come out of the ICU, they, he asks them, how are you doing?

00:18:52.980 If they say fine, he hands him a razor and said, get back into regs.

00:18:58.460 We, we don't have that liaison, dude.

00:19:02.660 So you, you got to grow your beard out because it's driving the Marines nuts.

00:19:07.260 So that's funny.

00:19:11.380 Light, light in the mood a little bit, right?

00:19:12.940 I'm sure there's also a lot of dark humor that comes along with that as well.

00:19:16.860 That I think anybody that may not be in the position would understand or think it's mean

00:19:21.280 spirited.

00:19:21.920 But, you know, I've talked with quite a few military members who have had horrific injuries

00:19:27.900 like we're talking about here and the lightheartedness they have about it.

00:19:31.780 And even some of the darkness they have about it, I'm sure is what keeps you laughing, smiling

00:19:36.300 and operational.

00:19:39.900 No, you know, it, that's part of this.

00:19:43.580 And you of, of all people, you know, you need a tribe.

00:19:46.860 You need your people.

00:19:48.520 They, your positivity and negativity are, are, are magnified by the circles you're in.

00:19:56.040 And I had this amazing family and I had this amazing tribe of service members, wounded,

00:20:03.880 I don't like saying wounded warriors, I like recalibrated carnivores or re-engineered experts.

00:20:10.860 But I had these, I had this support system immediately that it was, it was impossible for me to fail.

00:20:21.100 So, in fact, I would, I would, I felt ashamed of myself if I didn't try my best.

00:20:28.940 Because it became one of those things where it was my ethical and moral imperative to actually be and do my best.

00:20:38.900 And I realized that it was always the imperative as a, as a, as a, as a son, as a brother, as a husband, as a father, as a soldier and a EOD tech, a EOD team leader.

00:20:55.300 All of these roles, all of these hats that I wear, that I am responsible, not just for my own life, but I'm responsible for others and to others.

00:21:04.660 So, I have to get back in the fight.

00:21:08.360 Just because I'd, you know, gotten injured didn't mean I was out of the game.

00:21:13.880 Did you have, you talked a little bit about, just briefly, casually, something about taking your own life or suicide.

00:21:22.040 Is that a thought that continued to come into your mind?

00:21:24.600 Was there actually a real, a real thought about maybe taking your own life as you sustain these injuries?

00:21:31.420 Not a single moment, not once, never.

00:21:36.500 No, I was, I was, I was feeling trapped, right?

00:21:41.720 And there's, it's not like you go from one side to the other.

00:21:48.640 You find joy and happiness and you never go back.

00:21:52.380 There's this frustration with this condition or, you know, your situation.

00:21:57.620 It pops up all the time and there are so many times when you kind of waver between the growth mindset and the fixed mindset and you trip back and forth.

00:22:11.400 So, I would get into these sad, you know, depressed moments in my life since then.

00:22:19.880 But there's never been a time where I said there's, I didn't think there was a better, you know, solution, a better way out.

00:22:29.360 I just hadn't figured it out yet.

00:22:33.160 Man, I'm going to take a pause from the conversation very quickly.

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00:23:39.200 Excuse me.

00:23:39.860 Let me try that again.

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00:23:57.060 Check it out.

00:23:57.820 For now, let me get back to it with Aaron.

00:24:01.380 I'll tell you one thing, though, is that for those—

00:24:06.880 How did your body respond?

00:24:09.160 You talked about this shock to the system when you—

00:24:14.880 The shock to the system?

00:24:16.280 In my body?

00:24:17.440 Well, I think we have a little bit of a delay, so go ahead.

00:24:20.960 Oh, no, no, no.

00:24:21.720 I think we just had a little bit of delay or something happening, so go ahead.

00:24:24.740 Yeah, what I was saying was that for those who have made that awful sacrifice, that awful decision to commit suicide, I think I have said in the past that I've never considered it, but I can understand it.

00:24:46.680 I don't believe that it was the right answer, but I understand.

00:24:51.360 Yeah, I can understand as well.

00:24:56.540 I don't—I've never had that thought myself, but I can understand a person getting to that point.

00:25:01.440 It's tragic.

00:25:02.120 It's horrible.

00:25:03.300 There's a lasting impact generationally in a lot of cases on that act, but I can certainly see how a person would get there.

00:25:11.420 And I'm glad to hear that you didn't.

00:25:14.360 It sounds like you had a good support team around you, which I do want to get into, but I was really curious about something else you said.

00:25:19.960 You were talking about when your body loses one of its senses, and you lost that sense immediately.

00:25:26.160 How did your body react in a positive way?

00:25:30.020 Did you feel like that you had and have since developed a greater sense of touch, for example, or, you know, like, has your body responded in a positive way, and what has that been like, that process and that journey?

00:25:46.000 You know, it's funny.

00:25:46.720 I get that question all the time.

00:25:48.440 Like, can you—do you have super hearing now?

00:25:50.820 I'm like, no, I lost that one, too.

00:25:52.520 So, in fact, you know, part of the blast actually affected my sense of smell, which is linked to your sense of taste.

00:26:01.400 And I'm like, yeah, I'm losing all my senses.

00:26:03.540 My sharpest sense is my sense of humor.

00:26:06.900 But I'm going to have to—if I need to find directions, I'm going to have to get down on the ground and lick the concrete.

00:26:12.360 But the truth is, yes, you do—it's funny.

00:26:22.560 For one, when you lose a sense, you just—you pay attention to the other ones a lot more.

00:26:29.200 And I've had other guests, a blind guest who was like a sommelier and, you know, a food chemistry guy because he has this excellent sense of taste, right?

00:26:46.840 Right, sure.

00:26:47.140 Being able to distinguish flavors.

00:26:48.560 And it's not just a simple paying attention, but your brain actually reroutes that—those signals, right?

00:27:03.400 Those receptors in the brain just kind of focus more on what's still available.

00:27:09.980 So then, yes, you actually are increasing that input from the sensory, you know, that you still have.

00:27:21.480 Hmm, that's interesting.

00:27:23.020 And then you had said that, if I remember correctly, you lost your hearing from a bout with meningitis.

00:27:29.020 Is that right?

00:27:30.060 Yeah.

00:27:30.860 Well, this was about four years later.

00:27:33.580 And after I got out of the hospital, what they had to do with the cracked skull is something called an encephalocele.

00:27:41.420 It's—they take a piece of your septum and they patch the crack with it.

00:27:46.700 And I guess that it hadn't ever been completely patched because I still had a slow drip, so to speak.

00:27:55.960 Oh, wow.

00:27:56.440 Well, four years later, I was—I was—I started running.

00:28:01.780 I was running marathons.

00:28:03.040 I'd been to Boston.

00:28:05.900 I was whitewater kayaking, mountain climbing.

00:28:08.900 I began speaking.

00:28:10.480 I was just starting to figure this blind thing out.

00:28:17.220 And I came home from a speaking event and I was feeling super dizzy and fatigued.

00:28:25.020 It was really—it wasn't even, like, a tired thing.

00:28:30.000 It was something else.

00:28:31.320 So I laid down for a nap and I woke up, I don't know how long after, with the most excruciating pain.

00:28:40.460 Migraine doesn't do it justice.

00:28:42.040 It was like somebody poured acid into my head and just started stirring.

00:28:47.440 So I called 911.

00:28:50.980 And the operas said, state the nature of your emergency.

00:28:54.360 And I'm like, I have a really bad headache.

00:28:57.540 They're like, yes, sir, save it.

00:29:00.220 On this scale of 1 to 10, how bad is the pain?

00:29:03.900 I'm like, I've literally been blown up before and this is worse.

00:29:08.880 Okay.

00:29:09.900 The paramedic's on the way.

00:29:10.980 So, yeah, bacterial meningitis was trying to kill me and it was doing a better job than the blast.

00:29:19.380 The doctors thought I was going to die.

00:29:23.680 But they did some heavy, heavy doses of antibiotics.

00:29:26.980 But before they could recover me, you know, they could heal me, the bacteria stole what was left of my hearing.

00:29:38.440 And because it was the inner ear, the cochlea were the little hair follicles, the little hair cells that actually receive sound.

00:29:48.880 And also where your inner ear, your vestibular balance, that inner ear gyro resides, it took that too.

00:29:59.840 So, again, I was in the hospital.

00:30:05.340 I was going through this loss of another sense, a couple senses.

00:30:13.300 And it was, you know, it was knocking me back to the mat, right?

00:30:21.580 Sure, of course.

00:30:23.400 Resizing my ego at the very least.

00:30:25.940 And it was like, you know, God having that sardonic soldier's sense of humor. 0.51

00:30:35.140 Like, if you think you're so hot as a blind guy, here, try this. 1.00

00:30:40.540 Yeah.

00:30:41.320 Do it again.

00:30:42.240 Oh, that's, that's, did the meningitis or the bacterial, the bacteria, the infection itself, or not the infection, but the bacteria enter through that crack in your skull?

00:30:52.740 Is that how, is that what happened?

00:30:55.540 That's what we suspect.

00:30:57.000 Because I was kayaking not too long, not too soon before that.

00:31:02.880 And it's a waterborne bacteria.

00:31:06.420 Oh, okay.

00:31:07.620 That's kind of, kind of how we were suspected.

00:31:10.640 Yeah.

00:31:10.900 Do you know Eric Weyenmaier?

00:31:13.960 I hope I'm saying his name correctly.

00:31:15.540 Weyenmaier?

00:31:16.660 Is that an area?

00:31:17.340 Eric Weyenmaier.

00:31:18.000 Yeah.

00:31:18.360 Yeah.

00:31:19.160 Good buddies.

00:31:20.700 In fact.

00:31:21.100 Was he an inspiration for you when you went, like, I don't know the timeline really, but he's been on the podcast.

00:31:27.860 I listened to him speak years and years ago, and he was incredible, hiking the tallest peaks on each of the seven continents.

00:31:34.320 I was so impressed by this guy.

00:31:35.820 And your story reminds me of a lot of his story as well.

00:31:39.360 Well, when I decided that I wasn't going to feel sorry for myself and I was going to take charge of my life again.

00:31:45.220 And this was back in, you know, at the hospital after losing my eyesight.

00:31:50.160 As soon as I could figure out how to use the voiceover, the text-to-speech phone and computer, I was on the internet searching blind plus run, blind plus climb, blind plus outside, whatever.

00:32:04.960 And a couple of names kept popping up, one of them being Eric Weyenmaier.

00:32:08.940 And he's the first blind person to climb Mount Everest.

00:32:13.100 That's crazy.

00:32:14.800 I looked him up, and you know what?

00:32:17.200 I went mountain climbing with him.

00:32:18.980 He took a wounded veteran team up at peak in the Peruvian Andes in 2013 called Soldiers of Summits.

00:32:33.460 I was on that thing.

00:32:34.960 And then I went climbing with him in Colorado.

00:32:39.720 It was just, yeah, he's a great mentor and a great friend.

00:32:46.700 Were you a climber or a runner or a kayaker before this injury?

00:32:52.180 Or is that what really spurred you to take on some of these physical challenges?

00:32:57.900 I was athletic, but mostly I was a slacker before.

00:33:02.180 In fact, from high school, I considered myself an all-American slacker.

00:33:08.820 I loved playing sports, but I didn't like working out.

00:33:12.820 I mean, I liked the effects, but not the work part.

00:33:15.840 And that kind of plagued me in all areas of my life.

00:33:19.740 I joined the Navy first, and I spent eight years in the Navy as a cook.

00:33:26.780 And we kind of joked that that was the three-mile-a-year club, because you have two PT tests, and each run is a mile and a half.

00:33:35.780 Got it.

00:33:36.300 But it wasn't until joining the Army, switching over to EOD, and I'd have to be fit to wear that bomb suit and do a physically demanding job that I started getting better.

00:33:54.400 But I was still running for PT, not really working out.

00:34:00.320 It wasn't until after the blast when it was more of a complete terror, fear of being stuck, being boxed in by my condition.

00:34:13.200 Stuck on the couch, maybe crawling into a bottle of booze or pills or something.

00:34:19.300 And I didn't want to do that.

00:34:20.400 I wanted to get the heck out of my house.

00:34:22.560 And so one of the easiest things to do, like I said, I was trying to figure out these things, like getting outside.

00:34:35.600 And first, it was finding Eric and mountain climbing, but I live in the Florida Panhandle.

00:34:42.520 And it is really hard to find a decent mountain to train on around here to get prepared for Peru.

00:34:49.640 So I started running.

00:34:52.460 I found the local Team Red, White, and Blue chapter.

00:34:56.560 I'll go running with them.

00:34:58.240 And then somehow I got signed up for a marathon.

00:35:04.280 And I want to start training with them.

00:35:07.700 And, oh, I was talking, another mentor was Ivan Castro.

00:35:11.420 He was an active duty blind Army ranger working at the Special Operations Recruiting Branch.

00:35:19.600 And so I got a call with him, and in the conversation he talks about how he made it a point every year to run the Air Force Marathon,

00:35:30.120 the Army 10-Miler, and the Marine Corps Marathon.

00:35:32.920 I said, that sounds so cool.

00:35:34.420 That's patriotic as heck.

00:35:35.720 I'm going to do that too.

00:35:36.820 So I registered for all three of those.

00:35:39.580 Somebody told me I should probably do a local one, so I signed up for the Pensacola Marathon.

00:35:44.860 And then some nonprofit out of the blue just said, hey, we'll pay your way if you want to do the San Antonio Marathon.

00:35:51.880 I said, I love San Antonio.

00:35:53.320 So all of a sudden I was registered for four marathons and the Army 10-Miler all within the span of four months.

00:36:01.080 And I'd never run anything longer than a 10K in my life.

00:36:06.080 Yeah.

00:36:06.340 So I got busy training, and that's kind of how everything since then has kind of happened.

00:36:15.500 I just kind of bite off way more than I can chew and just kind of try to gnaw the best I can to figure it out.

00:36:24.300 Yeah.

00:36:25.660 That's really interesting.

00:36:26.840 When you started to run for the first time, what was that like?

00:36:29.600 The first time after you sustained your injuries, because I imagine just walking around in your house was probably relatively scary, let alone running down the road.

00:36:40.520 Did you have somebody that you were next to?

00:36:46.460 Logistically, how does that work?

00:36:49.040 Well, after I got out of Walter Reed, and I went to six months of blind rehabilitation, blind school at a VA hospital in Augusta.

00:36:57.680 And then the Army asked me while I was going through the med board, where do you want to retire?

00:37:07.020 And, of course, I'm in this, like, denial period.

00:37:09.360 I'm like, I don't want to.

00:37:11.240 Ivan Castro's still active duty.

00:37:13.100 I can stay active duty.

00:37:14.440 Obviously, I can't do the EOD thing.

00:37:17.580 They don't even like colorblind guys doing it. 0.87

00:37:20.700 The whole red wire, blue wire thing.

00:37:23.080 But—

00:37:23.240 Yeah.

00:37:23.960 My pesky wires.

00:37:25.360 I can teach.

00:37:26.060 So, yeah, I can teach.

00:37:29.220 So, send me to the EOD school.

00:37:31.060 I'll become an instructor.

00:37:32.100 And that's why I'm here to this day in the panhandle near Eglin Air Force Base where the school is.

00:37:39.880 I started instructing.

00:37:41.740 But they feed you like you're going through buds at Walter Reed.

00:37:47.140 They had it piled up like Belushi's tray in Animal House every meal.

00:37:54.720 And I gained a lot of weight.

00:37:57.680 So, I needed to get fit.

00:37:59.420 And I needed to get ready for this mountain climbing thing I just signed up for.

00:38:03.540 So, stepping out, I found there was an Air Force officer who volunteered.

00:38:11.420 I was actually staying at the Fisher House, which is kind of, you know, like the Ronald McDonald House for the military, while I still had treatments at the hospital.

00:38:20.680 And he would come by, and we couldn't—like, how do we do this?

00:38:25.400 I don't know.

00:38:26.040 I'm new to this whole blind thing.

00:38:28.580 Right.

00:38:29.060 And he had this, like, span of 550 chord.

00:38:34.060 It was, like, five feet long.

00:38:37.280 So, we—he kept, like, tightening it up because all I was doing was doing this accordion thing where if there was any—

00:38:46.920 Oh, I'm sure, yeah.

00:38:47.600 If there was—I would hold one end, he'd hold the other.

00:38:50.000 And if there was any slack whatsoever, I thought he was turning into me, so I would turn out.

00:38:55.280 And then it was going boing, and if it got too taut, I thought he was turning away, and I would run right into him.

00:39:03.040 So, it was the silliest thing until he—he balled it all the way up until there was only about an inch between us.

00:39:12.640 And then it looked like an Air Force guy and an Army guy in PTs running on base holding hands.

00:39:21.660 Oh, I'm sure you got some interesting looks and comments on that one.

00:39:28.340 Yeah, that was an interesting one.

00:39:30.140 Anyways, like, I graduated up to, like, a dog tug-of-war rope, which was sturdier, and I would hold a knot.

00:39:37.200 My partner would hold a knot.

00:39:39.020 And it's definitely going through some iterations.

00:39:41.240 But I'll tell you what, after, you know, getting over the whole embarrassment of the whole bouncing back and forth accordion thing, it was.

00:39:50.040 It was terrifying.

00:39:50.840 I would hear a car coming, and it would—basically, you know, we're running on the side of the road.

00:39:56.860 So, it would drive right by, and I would cringe like I was about to get run over.

00:40:01.940 I'm sure.

00:40:02.400 And I have been, you know, I've been running for 12, 13 years now, blind.

00:40:10.300 And I've been smacked by a couple of rearview mirrors.

00:40:15.860 So, yeah.

00:40:17.240 But I've gotten over that.

00:40:20.360 I trust my guide just like I would trust, you know, my team on the battlefield, right?

00:40:29.480 But they, in fact, most of the time, they're more nervous than I am because they don't want to break the blind guy.

00:40:37.020 They don't want to be that person.

00:40:38.180 Yeah.

00:40:39.080 Right.

00:40:39.720 Sure.

00:40:40.960 So, you still run—you run alongside somebody now or somebody's in front of you.

00:40:44.700 You still do it that way?

00:40:46.380 Well, for shorter runs, yeah.

00:40:49.580 It was run side by side.

00:40:51.020 I'll hold one end of a tether, and my guide will hold the other end.

00:40:55.040 And it's, you know, only a couple inches separation.

00:40:57.300 And, yeah, we'll just run side by side.

00:41:00.300 And I get all my cues from that tether, and I can just have a conversation with, like, any other set of, you know, pair of runners down the road.

00:41:11.120 But for longer runs—we discovered this a couple years ago.

00:41:18.280 In 2023, I was invited to run Badwater 135.

00:41:25.160 And two days before the race, the race director says, you can't run side by side.

00:41:35.060 There's no way.

00:41:36.320 It's all single file.

00:41:38.560 Because of the trail?

00:41:40.300 Okay, yeah.

00:41:41.020 Well, because it's all on, like, state highway, you know, like country, like, you know, like county road type thing.

00:41:50.080 Got it.

00:41:50.660 And there are about half a dozen police, law enforcement agencies all making sure that they don't break the rules.

00:41:59.320 And there's no stepping over the white line. 0.59

00:42:02.160 So that leaves about a foot and a half.

00:42:07.160 So on the fly, we had to come up with a whole new method for guiding.

00:42:11.760 Because the only method for going single file with that tether is for, you know, my guide to kind of take that tether and hide it behind her back, like a kid hiding a lollipop from somebody, you know?

00:42:23.880 Right.

00:42:24.140 And I would have to extend my arm all the way out.

00:42:28.120 And there's no way I could do that for 135 miles across Death Valley and over three mountain ranges.

00:42:36.280 So we put, my crew and I, we put our heads together.

00:42:41.300 I had some trekking poles and they took the poles and taped the tips of the poles to the pacers belt.

00:42:52.360 And I held the handles and the trekking poles kept me bracketed in and I stayed directly in line with my guide.

00:43:04.660 And we ran just like that because I couldn't really hear, I can't hear very well at all.

00:43:11.300 I mean, I am totally deaf except for this cochlear implant.

00:43:15.240 Without this little guy, I'm pulling the full Helen Keller.

00:43:20.360 But instead of talking over the shoulder, which is also awkward, my guide had a little whistle.

00:43:27.860 And we had a code for run, walk, stop.

00:43:31.620 And that was it.

00:43:32.840 And we did that.

00:43:34.000 And here's the most amazing part is that over a decade of running side by side with that tether and me keeping kind of a stiff arm with that 90 degree elbow, trying to hold the tether and, you know, pay attention to the cues.

00:43:50.940 I've kind of developed knots and arthritis in my shoulder.

00:43:54.420 And it's been, it's become really painful.

00:43:56.280 And I was dreading having to do that over this ultra marathon.

00:44:02.880 And the pain of that would be worse than any pain in my legs or my feet or whatever.

00:44:07.640 And what happened was this, these trekking poles that were basically more or less attached to my guide's hips moved like horizontal pistons.

00:44:18.940 And I got to swing my arms again for basically, for the first time in over a decade.

00:44:24.060 And it was, it was like cheating for me.

00:44:26.720 And so I started off even better than I thought I would.

00:44:34.040 Wow.

00:44:34.640 That's, that's interesting.

00:44:35.700 You guys came up with that.

00:44:36.720 And it is a pretty simple system.

00:44:38.040 It makes so much sense.

00:44:38.880 You probably almost wonder why you had never done that before, I imagine, you know, because you said that was relatively, what, the last couple of years you discovered that system?

00:44:48.700 Yeah, just did that.

00:44:50.260 I don't know if anybody else does that, but it was completely new.

00:44:55.860 It was like, it was separately invented by me and my team.

00:45:01.840 I don't, like literally, like it seems like something simple that others would do, but there are so many different methods that, you know, other blind runners have figured out.

00:45:11.500 And I don't know how they do it.

00:45:14.900 Some, and there's, you know, of course there's gradients, there's levels to being blind.

00:45:19.020 There's what I call, what I call blind.

00:45:22.780 And then there's that legal blindness or visual impairment.

00:45:27.600 So I think the, you know, the Boston Athletic Association that runs, you know, the Boston Marathon, they have five different categories for blind runner or something like that.

00:45:38.660 Anyways, some people that have enough sight, they have their guides just wear a brightly colored shirt and they chase the color.

00:45:50.960 So who knows?

00:45:52.700 Anyways, we separately figured this out on our own.

00:45:56.740 And thank goodness, it worked amazingly well.

00:46:02.460 Yeah.

00:46:03.260 I'm interested, you know, I think part of the, part of the draw and joy of running is to be able to be in a new place, to see new surroundings, to take in the environment.

00:46:13.640 And that's an impairment for you.

00:46:15.620 So, you know, you don't have the luxury of being able to see around you or see new places or experience that way.

00:46:22.420 So how do you experience those things when you're running and what other joy do you find that somebody who maybe does have the capability of seeing all around them might overlook?

00:46:34.040 Oh, you know, that is definitely, you know, a downside.

00:46:40.500 I've heard that Death Valley National Park is a beautiful place.

00:46:44.860 And I love seeing other runners and, you know, that grimace or smile of collective misery.

00:46:55.420 But I had an incredible team and we had 42 hours to chat about this or that.

00:47:06.660 And there were definitely times where, you know, the middle of the night where, you know, my guides, you know, we had quiet and peace that you don't find where there are screens, right?

00:47:20.260 So there was this, there's this ghost town called Darwin.

00:47:25.720 And it's definitely a lull in the race because it's pretty flat there.

00:47:31.260 And we were going right through the middle of the night and it's super quiet.

00:47:35.760 And my guide and I actually figured, you know, kind of, Kathy, she and I kind of ran out of stuff to say.

00:47:45.300 So we started just singing.

00:47:48.440 And then we couldn't figure out what songs we actually knew all the lyrics to.

00:47:51.940 And in the middle, like this was July 5th and we're singing Christmas songs because this is the only thing we both knew all the lyrics to.

00:48:06.580 That's pretty cool to be able to connect that way.

00:48:09.620 Yeah, yeah.

00:48:11.920 I'm really curious about the trust that's built.

00:48:14.240 And that's one question that I really, I really thought about when I was talking with Eric as well is just the immense amount of trust that you would have to have in your guide.

00:48:22.360 Kathy, I think he said is, is, is her name.

00:48:24.760 And I'm sure the same is true if you're climbing a mountain peak.

00:48:28.660 I'm very curious about the trust that you guys build.

00:48:31.720 How do you develop that trust, number one?

00:48:33.860 And are there things that you're paying attention to, especially if there's a new person in your group that might inhibit or hinder some of the trust building process?

00:48:44.240 Well, first, they, I've got one end of the tether, they've got the other.

00:48:50.500 If I go down, you're coming with me, buddy.

00:48:53.360 I'm just kidding.

00:48:54.180 I'm just kidding.

00:48:56.760 I think, I don't know if it's just my nature or if it's, yeah, maybe it's the military thing where you've got to trust those others in uniform to do their role.

00:49:13.120 Even though you may have never met them before.

00:49:16.340 They're supporting, you know, units, elements.

00:49:20.680 You have no idea, but you see the uniform and, you know, they're professionals.

00:49:26.120 And I took that kind of trust to, you know, the rest of my life and said, listen, I am uncertain of what might happen ahead.

00:49:39.880 But I'm going to expect the absolute best from you, and I hope you do the same for me.

00:49:49.840 Expect that even though you're afraid of me being blind and deaf and having lost my balance, that I can do things like climb a mountain or run a marathon.

00:50:02.020 And that I can do it well.

00:50:05.440 And I'm going to expect that you, despite maybe having never guided a blind person before, are just going to stay alert and learn and do your absolute best.

00:50:19.400 And if it turns out that either of us falter, I'm just going to check that off to a learning experience.

00:50:28.880 That's just hope.

00:50:30.120 It's not a tragic learning experience.

00:50:32.600 Right, not catastrophic.

00:50:34.540 Right, right.

00:50:36.860 I didn't actually consider that.

00:50:39.020 You said lost your balance.

00:50:40.620 Is that from the hearing loss or is that from the TBI?

00:50:43.160 Or what is that a product of?

00:50:44.740 That's from the hearing loss, yeah.

00:50:46.780 Well, when the bacteria took my hearing, it also took my sense of balance, the vestibular balance.

00:50:52.020 It's all right there in that inner ear.

00:50:54.740 And so I came home in a wheelchair that second time.

00:50:59.720 And I was sitting at the breakfast bar, my counter in the kitchen.

00:51:05.480 I had to hold on to the countertop because I would fall right off the stool.

00:51:09.460 And I had to hold on to the towel rack by the bathroom if I didn't want to fall off the toilet.

00:51:19.720 So, yeah, and even the sense of, you know, the feeling when you lean back in a chair and you're just on that teetering between falling forward and falling backward, but you don't know which way you're going.

00:51:35.880 Right.

00:51:36.440 That's how it felt in little waves, no matter what I was doing.

00:51:43.720 All of a sudden, I would feel like I was falling but didn't know which way I was going.

00:51:48.240 So that would even invade my dreams.

00:51:52.000 I would dream like I was falling and I'd jump right out of bed.

00:51:55.800 So, yeah, when I came home and I wanted to get back to, you know, what I'd learned for the last four years of being blind, both, all that stuff, all the accessibility tools were all text-to-speech.

00:52:15.780 It was all audio-based.

00:52:16.940 And, of course, with the deafness, you know, I was thinking, darn, I should have learned Braille, but I was too lazy. 0.99

00:52:25.300 Slack, you're slacking. 0.98

00:52:26.760 Another product of the slackerness, right?

00:52:29.580 But the technology did make me get a little bit of a slacker.

00:52:32.720 It was kind of an arcade, you know, code that you've got to learn.

00:52:36.960 You've got to practice like a different language.

00:52:38.620 And I'm like, I can just scan something with my phone and it'll read it to me.

00:52:46.180 Right.

00:52:46.680 So, and it's getting better every single day, which makes the drive for actually learning Braille less, more diminished than ever.

00:52:56.200 But.

00:52:56.520 I'm sure, yeah.

00:52:57.700 It took six to, it was almost a year before the cochlear implant, before I could actually have a conversation with another human.

00:53:05.380 So, through that year, I was trapped in my body and I, like, my whole world kind of entered at my fingertips.

00:53:14.240 And I had a treadmill, I had this beautiful garage gym with squat racks and all sorts of stuff.

00:53:24.640 And, and I couldn't, I couldn't get on my treadmill because it just felt like someone was trying to steal that thing out from under me.

00:53:31.760 I was all over the place. 0.98

00:53:32.940 And so, it was just a huge, it was a huge kick in the butt. 0.98

00:53:41.040 Another reality check that I had to figure out.

00:53:44.180 So, I would take the trekking poles that I'd previously used in the mountains and I started using them like this daddy long leg crab walk thing.

00:53:55.660 Like, there were half crutches, half antennae in front of me just to get out to the mailbox and back.

00:54:03.100 And then, and then, I wouldn't be exhausted.

00:54:07.860 But then, I would do it again.

00:54:09.380 And then, I would go a little bit further, just down to the next driveway and back.

00:54:12.840 And, and that's, that's, that's how I learned how to walk again.

00:54:16.840 And then, I'd get on the treadmill and just hit that quick start where it was like half a mile an hour.

00:54:21.860 And I would just hold on for dear life and just keep walking in pure silence.

00:54:29.640 So, I was, I was trying to, again, it was one of those times where I was trying to think of like something talking about my mind.

00:54:36.600 Do I know any lyrics to any song?

00:54:39.020 And, yeah, I, I would start into cadences, you know, marching, you know, running cadences.

00:54:48.600 And then, that would eventually turn into Do What Diddy, you know, from Stripes.

00:54:55.100 Anyways, eventually, I could speak, you know, I could spin the speed up a little bit more, a little more, until I was jogging again.

00:55:04.900 And, eventually, I started walking, I learned how to get my balance back in other ways.

00:55:12.340 And, I'm far better than, but it's, it's still, my balance is not where I could get back into the mountains.

00:55:24.540 But, I could run, I could walk.

00:55:27.120 Yeah.

00:55:27.980 So, you're, you've figured out ways to adapt your body has in order to address the balance issues.

00:55:34.400 So, those issues are still there, but you've got workarounds that have helped you overcome that, it sounds like.

00:55:38.360 Yeah, we have three different ways that we get our balance.

00:55:42.240 One is that vestibular, the inner ear gyro.

00:55:46.200 One is through visually seeing ourselves in relation to the world.

00:55:51.820 That's why people get sick on roller coasters and, like, jets when they do the, you know, loops and stuff, is because it screws with their sense of balance.

00:56:05.060 And then, through physical contact.

00:56:09.180 So, like, down two out of three.

00:56:12.040 But, I got really good at the physical contact thing.

00:56:15.940 And, I think some of my vestibular balance returned some of it.

00:56:21.440 But, yeah.

00:56:23.280 That's one of the toughest things when you're doing an endurance race.

00:56:27.200 Because, you know, the longer you run, the more fatigued you get.

00:56:31.220 And, the less your muscles want to respond.

00:56:35.000 So, the longer I run, the more wobbly I would get.

00:56:41.040 Wow.

00:56:41.760 Have you fallen on one of these runs?

00:56:43.460 Like, have you ever taken a spill?

00:56:45.920 Oh, yeah.

00:56:46.860 I'm awesome.

00:56:48.120 I'm so good at the combat roll.

00:56:50.800 I'm a pro at falling.

00:56:52.640 You perfected it at this point?

00:56:54.720 Yeah.

00:56:56.100 I'll trip on something.

00:57:00.100 And, I just start, you know, tucking in that shoulder.

00:57:02.640 I'm like, here it comes.

00:57:04.360 And, I'll just, I'll do a little roll.

00:57:06.520 Pop back up.

00:57:07.400 And, my God, I'll be like, I'm so sorry.

00:57:09.000 I'll be like, nah.

00:57:09.680 Let's keep going.

00:57:10.320 Here, grab this thing. 0.87

00:57:11.120 Let's go.

00:57:14.100 Oh, man.

00:57:14.780 I can't.

00:57:15.460 That is wild to me.

00:57:16.740 Okay.

00:57:17.020 So, you know, what's going to be next for you?

00:57:19.260 Because, you've got, you know, you're climbing mountains.

00:57:22.340 That one seems like maybe not as feasible based on the balance and that sort of thing.

00:57:28.120 You're running ultra endurance events.

00:57:30.900 Like, what's next?

00:57:31.900 Do you have other things on the mind?

00:57:33.000 You're kayaking, whitewater kayaking.

00:57:35.680 What else are you going to do?

00:57:37.240 Well, you know, really leaning into the running since the kayaking and the mountain require a little bit more balance.

00:57:44.760 But, also, you know, I didn't tell you this.

00:57:49.060 But, I don't know if it was you or Larry Hagner or...

00:57:53.120 I mean, I discovered you guys like 15 years ago, right about...

00:57:57.360 Or not 15, but 10 years ago.

00:57:58.980 Right about that time.

00:57:59.560 10 years ago, yeah.

00:58:00.460 Yeah, 10 years ago.

00:58:01.740 Right about the time I lost my hearing.

00:58:05.760 I was listening...

00:58:07.180 Just before then, I was listening to podcasts, a lot of podcasts, while I was training on the treadmill.

00:58:12.920 And I wanted to, you know, learn more about being a better man, a better dad.

00:58:21.160 You know, and I discovered you grabbed maybe the coolest name on the podcast, Order Man.

00:58:32.300 But, I was listening to you guys.

00:58:34.700 And then, you know, a year later, when I finally got my hearing back with this implant, I was listening to you guys again.

00:58:41.300 And, it inspired me to start, you know, my own show not too long ago, when I finally figured out how to get the technology to work and hired somebody to figure it out.

00:58:52.720 No, but, you know, since then, you know, I'm running more.

00:58:58.800 I'm signed up for, I'm registered for the Route 66 Ultramarathon, 140 miles in Arizona.

00:59:06.520 Wow.

00:59:06.700 And Marine Corps Marathon, I'll be going back for my sixth time in D.C.

00:59:13.960 And, you know, I started a chocolate company.

00:59:17.360 I started investing in real estate.

00:59:19.960 And, we've got rentals in a couple different states.

00:59:23.640 And, all this stuff, I just, I like doing this stuff because I want to achieve, I want to show my three sons that, you know, you can't use these setbacks as excuses.

00:59:39.680 So, I got to keep showing them examples, showing them of how I can't use this ever as an excuse.

00:59:49.960 And, so, the most recent thing is, you know, a blind guy, a blind deaf guy with a podcast called Point of Impact.

01:00:03.120 So, it's my way of, similar in nature to you and Larry's, is showing, showing people how they can, you know, get out of a rut, get overcome challenge.

01:00:20.220 But, not just that, it's becoming your best self that, so you can give your best and make that impact.

01:00:27.220 And, one of the most important things, one of the most important drivers of all of this is something, some, I don't even know.

01:00:37.940 There's probably a meme I read on Facebook, but it said, you know, someday the story of your struggle might be the blueprint for someone else's survival.

01:00:47.520 And, boom, that hit me right in the chest.

01:00:51.660 And, I've got this crazy story.

01:00:56.160 And, I can't, often I can't believe that this all-American slacker is right in the middle of it. 0.98

01:01:01.760 But, if I was given such an important story, I'd better figure out how to deliver it to who, to those who need it.

01:01:13.300 And, that's what I'm doing.

01:01:15.460 It's, it's interesting the way you just said that.

01:01:19.260 You said, I was given this story.

01:01:21.160 Do you feel, in a way, I don't want to put words in your mouth by any means, so I'm curious what you think about.

01:01:25.860 Is there any sort of gratitude for, for that incident and the injuries you sustained, or not?

01:01:31.540 Like, how do you feel about it now?

01:01:33.120 What is it now, 14, almost 15 years later?

01:01:36.900 Yes.

01:01:38.640 Yes.

01:01:40.000 It has given me, now, it is, don't get me wrong.

01:01:44.800 If I could see again, if I could see, you know, my mother's face, my, my boy's faces,

01:01:53.140 I would give everything, anything.

01:01:57.240 But, it gave me my life.

01:02:01.760 It gave me, you know, an appreciation for people around me.

01:02:07.920 It gave me humility and gratitude.

01:02:11.240 And, it, this gift that is, you know, my, my life, it gave me the ability to contribute.

01:02:23.260 Because, before then, I, I, I was, I was a bit depressed.

01:02:28.660 I was a bit sad, because I was thinking a lot about me.

01:02:33.420 I was thinking too much about me.

01:02:34.660 Now, I, I've been given this story, and I need, I need to give it away.

01:02:41.340 I need to give it back.

01:02:42.280 I need to, you know, become that piece of life that is abundance.

01:02:48.680 And, I need to, you know, make sure that the flow doesn't get interfered with, or it doesn't,

01:02:56.920 that, that I'm, I'm participating.

01:02:58.720 And, that is the most fulfilling sense that I can think of, is to contribute.

01:03:10.740 Well, you're doing it, man.

01:03:12.080 And, I got to say, I'm inspired, and I'm glad that we were able to connect.

01:03:14.940 Because, I've been fascinated with what you have going on, and how you've been able to

01:03:18.780 do some incredible things that most people, myself included, haven't done.

01:03:23.660 And, I have, you know, no excuse for that whatsoever.

01:03:27.640 So, it's pretty inspiring to see somebody have this situation, and take it, and use it

01:03:34.360 as fuel for their life, and also to improve other people's lives as well.

01:03:37.660 So, I'm really grateful that you came on, and shared some of your story.

01:03:40.880 I know it's going to help other people.

01:03:42.040 So, thanks for joining me today, man.

01:03:43.400 Well, thank you very much, Ryan.

01:03:44.780 Like I said, long-time listener, first-time guest.

01:03:47.580 And, I really do appreciate you inviting me on.

01:03:50.600 Thank you.

01:03:51.380 Of course.

01:03:51.820 I'm glad we made it happen, man.

01:03:53.660 Gentlemen, there you go, my conversation with the one and only Aaron Hale.

01:03:58.560 Hopefully, you enjoyed this one.

01:04:00.240 This guy is absolutely phenomenal.

01:04:02.880 And, as I was having a conversation with him, I couldn't help but think,

01:04:05.860 I have zero excuses for mediocrity in my life.

01:04:10.060 And, if you listen to this whole thing, and you're hearing me now,

01:04:12.720 you also have zero excuses for mediocrity in your life.

01:04:19.060 As some marching orders for you guys today, if you would, please,

01:04:22.380 take a screenshot real quick, share it up.

01:04:26.700 Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Twitter, X, wherever you're doing, TikTok,

01:04:31.580 wherever you're doing the social media thing.

01:04:33.660 And, tag Aaron, tag myself.

01:04:36.260 Let other men know, we can blow this thing up, but I need your help, and I want your help.

01:04:41.100 And, I want to enlist you and others in the cause of reclaiming and restoring masculinity.

01:04:46.780 So, tag us up.

01:04:48.300 Let us know what you're listening to.

01:04:50.660 Let us know what you enjoyed.

01:04:51.900 And, let others know as well.

01:04:54.380 Also, check out orderofman.com slash dispatch.

01:04:58.000 One week at a time, we're going to change your life through the dispatch.

01:05:01.380 And, that's all for free at orderofman.com slash dispatch.

01:05:06.120 All right, guys.

01:05:06.920 You have your marching orders.

01:05:08.260 We'll be back tomorrow for our Ask Me Anything.

01:05:10.560 Until then, go out there, take action, and become the man you are meant to be.

01:05:14.960 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

01:05:21.020 If you're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be,

01:05:25.060 we invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

01:05:28.180 We'll be right back.

Order of Man - July 29, 2025

AARON HALE ｜ Re-Sizing Your Ego

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