Order of Man - ADAM LANE SMITH ｜ Are You Anxious, Avoidant, or Secure？

00:00:00.000 I've spent a lot of time over the past 18 months looking into the various attachment styles of men, anxious, avoidant, and secure.

00:00:08.640 Now, I think we all know intuitively that secure is the best place to be, but the question is, how do we get there?

00:00:16.280 It's especially difficult considering our ingrained attachment style drives so much of our decision-making process, much of which is subconscious.

00:00:24.360 Today, I'm joined by a licensed psychotherapist and attachment specialist, Adam Lane-Smith.

00:00:30.620 We talk about building secure, sustainable relationships, why responsibility breeds security, and why we subconsciously avoid it,

00:00:39.460 how the chemicals oxytocin and vasopressin drive our emotional and problem-solving connections,

00:00:45.220 and why every man needs to work on building his male solution network.

00:00:49.320 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest.

00:00:52.240 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:55.540 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:59.940 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:01:05.000 This is your life. This is who you are.

00:01:07.560 This is who you will become at the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:14.440 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler.

00:01:16.940 I'm your host and the founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement.

00:01:20.080 Welcome here today. This is the very first podcast of 2024.

00:01:26.020 I think it's the 1100th podcast that we've done, but it's the very first one that we've done again for 2024.

00:01:32.960 So I'm glad you're here.

00:01:34.320 I'm kicking it off with an attachment specialist and licensed psychotherapist, Adam Lane-Smith,

00:01:39.240 who is extremely popular with men and their attachment styles and building relationships and being secure and feeling better about who they are and how they show up in the world.

00:01:48.040 We're going to get into this conversation briefly before I do just want to mention my friends up in Montana at Montana Knife Company.

00:01:55.200 If you're looking for a good hunting knife, a good culinary knife, I also think they're getting into tactical knives as well.

00:02:01.460 They've got some incredible 100% made in American knives at the friends over at Montana Knife Company.

00:02:08.120 So if you're in the market for a knife or you want some cool gear, they've got a lot of cool hoodies, shirts, some other swag over there, then check it out at MontanaKnifeCompany.com.

00:02:17.280 And when you end up picking anything up, please use the code ORDEROFMAN at checkout.

00:02:22.740 Not only does it help this and this podcast and movement, but it also lets them know that they have good friends over here supporting them and what they're doing with the American made knife company, MontanaKnifeCompany.com.

00:02:34.120 All right, guys, let me get to my guest today. He is, again, a licensed psychotherapist. He's an attachment specialist. He's a personal coach.

00:02:40.680 And he's also the author of Slaying Your Fear, a guide for people who grapple with insecurity.

00:02:47.020 Again, his name is Adam Lane Smith, and I've been following Adam's work for years, and we were finally able to make this podcast conversation happen.

00:02:54.220 Now, he works with individuals, families, executives, CEOs, to mend marital discord, become better parents, and also navigate the world of modern dating, which is crazy.

00:03:06.680 He specializes in helping his clients confront and overcome deep-rooted patterns and beliefs that no longer serve them and keep them from unlocking their full potential.

00:03:16.880 Enjoy this one, fellas.

00:03:19.340 Adam, what's up, brother? So great to see you. Thanks for joining me on the podcast today.

00:03:22.820 It is wonderful to talk to you. I know we've been floating around the same circles online for about four years now, but this is our first direct conversation, which is pretty cool.

00:03:32.320 I'm actually really impressed with what you've done because I see a lot of professionals, whether it's in the medical field or therapy, which is your background and profession, or financial services.

00:03:42.880 And there's a lot of really talented individuals out there who know their fields really well, but they don't market very well.

00:03:49.020 And that's one thing that you do exceptionally good. And I think that really resonates with people in a way that probably a lot of therapists don't.

00:03:56.260 I'm wondering what you attribute some of that success to.

00:03:58.660 Men, my fellow men. So I paired up very well with some good men who knew marketing and understood how to make that work.

00:04:07.500 I brought my professional knowledge. I connected to these men. They're like brothers to me now. They're with Veritas Agency.

00:04:13.700 And together we built that. That's how men are supposed to function is one of us is strong here. One is strong here.

00:04:20.060 You march forward together. So that's, I would say that they've taught me a tremendous amount.

00:04:24.180 I agree as far as men banding together and working together, but it seems like in the modern era that we live, that is an increasing rarity. Would you agree?

00:04:35.480 Yes. So most men are not raised to understand that they can connect with other men. We're raised by women and we're raised to be fairly docile, fairly calm, keep everything under the level.

00:04:46.080 And we don't have the direct communication that we need with other men. We don't understand that the male brains throughout history have been this male solution network, all these data nodes solving problems, working together.

00:04:57.500 They're meant to link up in this vast web that not only transcends time and space, but connects every man who's ever lived so that we could share things like the wheel and fire and pointy sticks without men having to recreate that.

00:05:11.120 But we are bringing that back now. I think that the internet is helping bring that back. Men like you with your order of man and the grouping that you've done with men and the work that I've done reconnecting men, I think we're bringing that back.

00:05:23.020 But the male solution network that we have building, that is absolutely vital. We've got to bring that back.

00:05:28.900 Yeah. I've never heard it referred to the male solution network, but as I think about that terminology, that's really powerful. And the reason I think I like it, and I imagine that it resonates with other men when talking about relationship building.

00:05:42.700 I mean, even think about that term, like that doesn't totally sound comfortable for me or men relationship building, but male solution network to me sounds more action oriented, more driven towards results, as opposed to purely the relational element, which I think would be characterized as more feminine than masculine.

00:06:02.100 Yes. If we take relationship building and replace it with solution network forging, then men love it. And it's exactly the same thing. It involves the same conversations, the same high fives, everything, but you are forging a network that brings you solutions where you share solutions across that network. So one man benefits from the work everybody else is doing.

00:06:22.200 What do you think in your experience are the common objections you hear to this? Obviously there's time constraints, there's energy constraints, and then there's just the ego, I think that gets in the way as well.

00:06:36.400 Well, I mean, yeah, look, I work 12 to 14 hours a day, usually five days a week, relatively it's been six or seven because it's the holidays and I've got four kids. I've got baby number five on the way next month. I'm going to stay at home wife. I thank you. I take care of my wife.

00:06:51.100 I also spend time with friends. I make time for the men in my network. I have scheduled meetings with my friends every single week. I build it in. It is non-negotiable for me. That's how it must be. If a man wants to advance, he must have non-negotiable time where he networks and connects with other men. Otherwise you're alone out here and all you can do is build solutions that you can think of. That's not going to take you real far. You're going to get stuck eventually. So number one, there's that. Number two is, again, we are raised in this world where men are not encouraged to bond with other men.

00:07:20.680 And we need to be initiated into male bonding. There's a special hormone called vasopressin that men have more receptors of than women do. And it bonds us together when we solve challenges together, when we overcome stress together.

00:07:34.540 It actually cements a bond between you and the other person that says this person is a valuable ally. Keep them around. Prioritize them. Now you need to be initiated into that bonding with fathers, uncles, cousins, brothers, grandfathers.

00:07:49.440 Men need to teach you that and initiate you into that kind of solution focused bonding. But what's happening instead is that men are having broken connections.

00:07:57.540 When they're children, they learn they have to be interesting instead of being who they are. They have to be docile instead of being direct. They have to be easy to be around instead of being a man or being masculine or even pursuing solutions.

00:08:11.860 We have to pursue feelings instead of solutions. We prioritize feelings. That does not help us to bond with other men either. And it creates insecure attachment. When you have insecure attachment, it's very hard to bond with other men.

00:08:24.900 That's why men who have insecure attachment, whether they're anxious about it and self-hating or they are fearful of other people and keep them at arm's length. Either one is very hard to bond with other men and build that network.

00:08:36.740 Yeah, I'm really interested in the attachment styles. I've done a little bit of study, obviously not to the degree that you have on attachment. And I would think that I strive to be more secure in my attachment styles.

00:08:48.120 But by default, I tend to be more of an anxious attachment type person. Do you find that to be based? And I know this is a broad generality, but do you find that to be based on gender or is that upbringing? Is that nature versus nurture? What does that look like?

00:09:05.460 It's two things, two things. So number one, the most common attachment issue that we know of in men is nice guy syndrome, and that's anxious attachment.

00:09:14.760 It's the belief there's something wrong with me on the inside. Everyone else can see it. I'm an imposter. I'm a fraud. No one will ever accept me if they see this.

00:09:22.520 So I have to try to accommodate for it and make up for it and be this big man. But if anyone ever sees who I really am, they'll see that I'm worthless on the inside.

00:09:32.940 That's a more anxious attachment. And we carry that into our connections. We're always trying to earn approval so people won't abandon us and we won't be exposed.

00:09:41.320 And that's actually not the most common attachment style for men.

00:09:44.740 The most common attachment style for men more than women is avoidant attachment, which is the belief that there's something wrong with other people.

00:09:52.280 Either they are incapable of love or they're just not able to handle stress or there's something off about other people, but they will never be fair with you.

00:10:02.100 They will always play against you. When the stress hits, they will take what they can get and leave you in the lurch.

00:10:07.260 You cannot trust other people. So you have to avoid conflict, keep them at arm's length so you can get away, avoid conflict, stay back and avoid that entanglement.

00:10:16.820 Solve problems alone. Everything has to be done alone and you have to be a lone wolf.

00:10:21.500 These guys are incredible at business. They are great executives. They rise right to the top.

00:10:26.180 They have no relationship drama and they can schmooze like nobody else.

00:10:29.540 And they also usually have plenty of girlfriends going on, but they never have deep connections.

00:10:33.780 And eventually their wife says, I can't handle you anymore. I'm done. I am taking the kids and I'm out.

00:10:38.680 And he's like, what the hell? I've done everything for you on paper, but there's been no emotional connection between us for 20 years. Right?

00:10:45.240 So those are the two main attachment styles that I tend to see.

00:10:48.300 The guys in the first camp, they know something's wrong and they're grateful to hear about attachment theory.

00:10:53.020 And they want to fix it because it's like, oh, thank God, maybe I'm not the problem.

00:10:56.760 Guys in the second camp say, Adam, you're blowing smoke. There's no such thing as real love.

00:11:01.420 No one will ever care for me. You have to control and manage other people.

00:11:05.040 You're trying to get me killed by opening up to other people.

00:11:07.600 Friendship is fake. Friends are fake. Love is fake.

00:11:10.460 And they blow it all off completely the first few times that they hear it.

00:11:14.000 So that's what I'm used to hearing.

00:11:15.980 I'm fascinated with the idea that opening yourself up creates some sort of risk.

00:11:23.380 I can't imagine. Again, I think this is because of my natural attachment style.

00:11:28.760 I can't imagine me exposing or sharing my feelings about either a relationship or a situation or how I feel about how a conversation may have gone.

00:11:37.920 I just can't imagine what risk that exposes me to.

00:11:41.720 Like what risk? What is it that people are afraid of?

00:11:44.700 They're not going to die. What's the deal?

00:11:47.540 Ah, but their brain thinks they are.

00:11:49.000 So here's the thing.

00:11:49.960 Research indicates that these attachment styles are able to form in response to bad, dangerous environments.

00:11:55.080 So a thousand years ago, the Danes sail up your coast.

00:11:58.520 They raid your village. They burn it to the ground.

00:12:00.580 They kill most of the people you're left in the rubble watching them sail away.

00:12:04.100 And you and a couple survivors are there.

00:12:06.060 Nobody's going to take care of your needs.

00:12:07.840 No one's going to listen to you.

00:12:08.800 It's not based on compassion.

00:12:09.940 It's now based on survival and how you guys fit together.

00:12:13.100 So you will become approval seeking and trend, but women do this more than men, but men do it to approval seeking of I will do anything for you.

00:12:21.820 Please just don't abandon me or you'll become avoidant of I am going to manage everything.

00:12:26.600 I'll take every resource I can get.

00:12:28.600 I won't trust people, but I can trust money and resources and that's it.

00:12:31.480 And I will do everything I can to survive.

00:12:33.720 And that's where that builds in.

00:12:35.100 But it comes from childhood.

00:12:36.680 Your caregivers teach you this.

00:12:38.980 They teach you about your environment.

00:12:40.780 If mom and dad don't mirror to you, the mirroring neurons in the brain, if mom's not loving you and talking with you and sharing with you and making you feel like you're enough to get her attention, if she's off, she's distracted, she's on her phone, she's depressed from postpartum, she's stressed out, she's gone at work, she abandons you, she's a drunk, she's not looking at you.

00:12:59.780 Your brain says, I'm not interesting enough.

00:13:02.560 I'm not good enough.

00:13:03.240 I have to become interesting.

00:13:04.700 So they try to be interesting instead of forming relationships.

00:13:07.720 You become dopamine based and you throw dopamine at other people trying to make them like you.

00:13:12.320 These are guys who open up like I have one liners on my dates, man.

00:13:15.540 I have all these things.

00:13:16.380 I could play games.

00:13:17.280 I'm spinning plates.

00:13:18.380 I'm keeping them interested.

00:13:19.360 I'm playing dread game.

00:13:20.440 I'm doing all these things.

00:13:21.480 It's pushing buttons in other people to demand a response because you learned mom would not give you intimacy by looking at you.

00:13:29.700 So they learned that the world is hurtful.

00:13:32.080 Maybe their parents fought in front of them.

00:13:33.660 Maybe mom gave them attention, but then backed off.

00:13:35.640 So it was inconsistent love.

00:13:36.840 There's a hormone that's very addictive called oxytocin.

00:13:39.900 You're supposed to get that when you're a kid.

00:13:41.540 If you get that and it's pulled away, you become addicted to it.

00:13:44.400 That might be part of the origin of anxious attachment style is chasing this drug.

00:13:48.600 It's oxytocin.

00:13:49.400 When you have avoidant attachment style, you actually might run away from oxytocin because it feels vulnerable and scary.

00:13:55.680 But the brain says, I'm in a bad environment.

00:13:58.660 If I be open with people, they could leave me because other people will not care for my needs.

00:14:03.260 I will die.

00:14:04.160 I will starve to death when you're like two years old.

00:14:06.720 I'll starve to death and die if I'm open.

00:14:09.100 So I can never create risk in my relationships by ever introducing friction and I can never trust anybody else during conflict.

00:14:16.540 I have to go dark and silent every time a conflict comes up and try to solve it either by people pleasing or by sneaking away and then solving it alone.

00:14:24.060 That's where the risk comes from.

00:14:25.560 Their brain does believe they are going to die.

00:14:27.820 That's why their limbic system kicks off and a lot of them get panic attacks when they're exposed and they have to start trying to be open to people.

00:14:33.620 It's very difficult.

00:14:34.740 That's why.

00:14:35.160 It's interesting because if you look at it as objectively as possible, and I'm not objective, I have my own lens I look at life through.

00:14:42.760 Either way, you're going to run the risk of people leaving you.

00:14:46.100 You're going to run the risk of people dying or not being satisfied with you or being angry with you or just screwing you over, frankly.

00:14:54.240 I don't think one attachment style over the other is going to keep that from happening in life.

00:14:59.160 Only secure attachment.

00:15:00.340 Only secure attachment because securely attached, fully securely attached people will look at a situation and say, it makes no sense to destroy my relationships.

00:15:09.460 They believe in the power of sustainable relationships.

00:15:12.260 So they're not looking to win at your expense.

00:15:14.720 They are looking to build a sustainable, long-term, mutually fulfilling relationship.

00:15:19.340 They're the ones that will say, hey, you know what?

00:15:21.720 This time you came out 10% ahead of me.

00:15:24.040 That's no problem.

00:15:25.120 Next time, let's make sure I come out 10% ahead.

00:15:27.360 Let's balance out.

00:15:28.400 They'll be that open and clear with you.

00:15:30.160 It's the wife who, instead of making you play games and guess what she wants, says, hey, babe, this is what I'd like from you.

00:15:35.680 I just want your stress to go down, but this would help me.

00:15:38.160 Can we do this?

00:15:38.760 If you do this, I will do everything for you in your life that you want.

00:15:42.180 Just please take care of these couple things.

00:15:44.100 That's it.

00:15:44.560 And she means it.

00:15:45.320 And she follows through on it.

00:15:46.920 That would be secure attachment.

00:15:48.120 It's sustainable, long-term relationships.

00:15:50.460 Now, the research shows that only about 50% of people in America have a secure attachment style anymore.

00:15:56.140 And the two pools segregate out because the people who are used to playing games and pushing buttons in a bad environment and the people who believe that the world is okay and that they're going to be able to work cooperatively with other people,

00:16:07.040 they don't even signal the same to each other.

00:16:09.420 It's like a firefly that flashes red and a firefly that flashes blue.

00:16:13.020 They don't even see each other's colors.

00:16:14.460 So you'll say, I have never seen somebody who's ever been that calm and reasonable and worked with me.

00:16:19.460 Women don't act that way, right?

00:16:21.220 A lot of red pill guys say this.

00:16:22.360 Women don't ever act that way.

00:16:23.840 You either control them or they control you.

00:16:26.400 That's this pool of people over here.

00:16:28.320 When you switch to fully secure, then you have to learn to signal to securely attach people.

00:16:33.400 And then you can form these relationships that are mutually fulfilling.

00:16:36.420 And that would be your order of man group right there.

00:16:39.240 You guys come together and build these secure relationships with each other instead of saying, we're going to screw each other over.

00:16:44.880 We're going to hurt each other.

00:16:45.540 No, we will play by fair rules.

00:16:47.000 It's honor-based.

00:16:48.180 It is building real relationships that are sustainable.

00:16:51.800 That's what you have done.

00:16:53.380 That's that creation.

00:16:54.380 That's secure attachment.

00:16:55.280 I'm taking notes here.

00:16:56.400 I always tell people this is for me just as much as it is for anybody else.

00:17:00.960 Good thing we're recording this, huh?

00:17:02.280 Yeah, 50% actually sounds, it sounds high to me based on my own interaction, but that might be because I'm seeing it again, like you said, the red versus the blue lights flashing or whatever it might be.

00:17:14.420 Yes, and the research shows it could be going up to 65% now.

00:17:18.540 It's kind of trending upward.

00:17:20.360 It's worse.

00:17:21.020 It's getting worse.

00:17:22.460 I like to say that we live in the ruins of a culture.

00:17:26.120 We already have had our social collapse.

00:17:28.060 I don't think we're headed for, you know, dawn of the dead or walking dead kind of collapse.

00:17:32.680 I think we've already collapsed socially and emotionally in the ways that matter, and I think that we are rebuilding from that.

00:17:38.660 I think the rebuilding has already begun, but we're living in that.

00:17:41.540 We are responding as if we are living in the aftermath of a Dane attack on our village.

00:17:46.820 If two-thirds of us, our brains are telling us we live in a bad, collapsed society, then we probably are.

00:17:53.400 Those numbers are worse, the research shows, on the coast and in big urban cities, right?

00:17:59.260 You go to LA, yeah, 50% is probably pretty low.

00:18:01.680 Maybe it's 75% of broken attachment in LA, maybe New York City.

00:18:05.740 That's why those two dating pools are a nightmare.

00:18:07.960 But yes, also the segregation effect where you're going to be biased and you're going to see different groups of people.

00:18:12.400 That's 100%.

00:18:14.120 The research, the best we can guess, is about 50% to 65% right now.

00:18:17.800 So why is it the coastal cities or the urban environments?

00:18:22.580 Does it have to do with the pace of life?

00:18:23.960 Does it have to do with politics and cultural beliefs?

00:18:26.600 What does that come from?

00:18:27.780 It's about 100 years coming right now.

00:18:29.640 So 100 years ago, we had World War I.

00:18:31.540 We lost a huge chunk of men.

00:18:33.360 We had World War II.

00:18:34.320 But between that, we had the Dust Bowl.

00:18:35.700 We had the Great Depression.

00:18:36.700 We had all kinds of issues.

00:18:38.540 Most people don't realize that the middle of America was hollowed out and went like this to the two coasts.

00:18:43.500 About 1920, we also had the majority of people switched from rural living into urban living.

00:18:48.680 And then that got worse and worse and worse and worse.

00:18:50.800 But what happened was the family bonds were ripped apart.

00:18:53.220 It was called kith and kin networks, extended family networks.

00:18:56.480 And even now, the nuclear family was ripped apart.

00:18:59.440 So you go to the major cities.

00:19:00.680 And 100 years ago, the average work week was about 100 hours, 80 to 100 hours.

00:19:06.580 Henry Ford was the one who revolutionized that with 40-hour work weeks.

00:19:10.040 He was actually sued by other companies because he only worked his employees 40 hours a week and paid them as if they were working 100 hours.

00:19:17.400 And the other company said, well, we can't compete with that.

00:19:20.000 So they sued him to make him stop taking care of his employees.

00:19:23.660 But that was 100 years ago.

00:19:25.260 And then all these men went through meat grinders and died and died and died.

00:19:29.120 Either they physically died in the wars or they mentally and emotionally died.

00:19:32.480 So they came home and they were broken.

00:19:34.860 If you look at the beginning of the music video, Twisted Sister, we're not going to take it.

00:19:40.680 The dad is yelling and screaming at his kid.

00:19:42.940 You're going to die.

00:19:44.180 You need to do what you're doing.

00:19:45.240 You need to build a skill.

00:19:46.580 You're going to starve in this world.

00:19:48.000 It's going to eat you alive.

00:19:49.240 That was the silent generation and the greatest generation raising the baby boomers who then went on and said, screw everything.

00:19:55.640 They got cars that became mobile sex wagons.

00:19:58.000 They created modern dating.

00:19:59.580 The baby boomers very much did.

00:20:00.980 They created this screw everybody and everything, no responsibility, not all of them, but a significant portion of them did.

00:20:07.800 Right now, they're tripling the divorce rates in their 70s and 80s.

00:20:11.020 If you can still believe that, they are still fighting to the death over possessions and divorces in their 80s.

00:20:16.680 I can't even imagine being 80 years old and trying to divorce my wife at that point.

00:20:19.940 That's just bonkers.

00:20:21.220 But they're still doing that.

00:20:22.960 They obliterated, obliterated all of those networks that were protecting us, that were guiding us.

00:20:27.600 And those, again, pushed more people in urban environments along the coasts because that's where the jobs are.

00:20:33.180 That's where all the markets have been.

00:20:34.740 A hundred years ago, they really formed up on the two coasts, those two centers of industry.

00:20:40.160 And so we are continuing to destroy our families to move to those coastal areas.

00:20:44.100 And then we move around those coastal areas and we break down our families even worse.

00:20:48.020 So it's not that the ones in the middle are perfect, but the ones in the middle of America often have better networks and better connections.

00:20:55.220 So someone will come in.

00:20:56.360 Your mom isn't great, but your grandma is, right?

00:20:58.940 Your dad isn't perfect, but you have three uncles.

00:21:01.240 You have this cousin network.

00:21:02.800 My wife, she has like 51 first cousins or something ridiculous.

00:21:08.200 Like big families in the middle of America, almost no family at all on the sides of America, the big coastal urban center.

00:21:15.320 So that's part of the reason you're seeing major cities as ground zero for this destruction.

00:21:19.780 That's why also major cities are the big driving forces with like Tinder and just going out trying to marry strangers or sleep with strangers.

00:21:26.900 You're dopamine binging on strangers because you don't have oxytocin, vasopressin, you don't have GABA, you don't have serotonin.

00:21:32.940 You don't have the brain chemicals you're supposed to get through healthy, secure attachment.

00:21:36.820 Your brain is clicked into survival mode.

00:21:38.520 It actually turns off all of those other chemicals in some ways, floods you with cortisol, and then you become a dopamine binger.

00:21:44.860 That's why we're seeing this rise of dopamine binging.

00:21:48.020 OnlyFans, pornography, sugar, food addiction, sex addiction with dating and just serial dating.

00:21:54.980 That's why people at seven months get bored of a relationship and move on to the next one because they're not building oxytocin bonds the way they should.

00:22:02.280 They're supposed to form that over the first seven months.

00:22:04.720 They're flooding into dopamine instead.

00:22:06.680 Then in a year, they're like, man, I'm not feeling this anymore.

00:22:08.960 It's just not feeling good.

00:22:09.820 I guess you're not the one for me.

00:22:11.300 No, you are incapable of forming the biological bonds you were supposed to form because you're not attaching correctly.

00:22:18.540 Sorry for the rant, but I mean, that's how things have got so much worse over the last hundred years.

00:22:22.920 That's why the coastal cities and big urban cities are ground zero for this.

00:22:27.480 I want to go to that oxytocin bonds, but before I get into that, the other thing that I think might play a factor is not only the nuclear family, but I imagine it has to do with organizational institutions that we used to attach to.

00:22:41.300 For example, church, and you see dwindling church numbers.

00:22:44.240 And then I've been looking a little into military recruiting, and you see the bonds that are forged in the military are drastically reduced because fewer and fewer men, up to 75% of our youth cannot qualify physically to join the military without some sort of medical waiver.

00:23:02.000 So we see military recruitment and numbers declining, which is where a lot of those bonds were forged as well, I'm sure.

00:23:10.040 Absolutely.

00:23:10.920 So there's five.

00:23:11.880 There's five clusters that we are supposed to rely on to build healthy, secure attachment.

00:23:16.540 And it's like if one fails, the next one catches you.

00:23:19.440 If that one fails, the next one catches you.

00:23:21.380 Nuclear family was number one.

00:23:23.080 Your nuclear family, your caregivers, your siblings, your mom and dad, they were supposed to teach you love and connection.

00:23:28.740 That people will pay attention to you, not because you're interesting, but because they're fascinated by you and they love you.

00:23:34.460 You are enough.

00:23:35.320 Mom's mirroring neurons with you back and forth.

00:23:37.300 Mom pays attention to me.

00:23:38.800 Mom loves me.

00:23:39.520 If that doesn't work, something goes wrong with your nuclear family.

00:23:42.560 You're supposed to have your extended family.

00:23:44.420 Grandma, grandpa.

00:23:45.360 In the old days, people had five generations alive.

00:23:48.260 You had great, great, great grandma, and she was on the porch.

00:23:50.440 Great, great grandma.

00:23:51.380 Then great grandma.

00:23:52.280 Then grandma.

00:23:52.900 Then mom.

00:23:53.480 You had all this flood of people, women and men, who would just lavish love upon you so there was always somebody to teach you that they cared about you, right?

00:24:01.960 We don't have that anymore either.

00:24:03.620 The last hundred years has pulled families apart and thrown them into isolated little condos and little mini malls and strip malls and everything.

00:24:11.380 That's what we've been pulled away from.

00:24:12.880 After that is what's called the Kith and Kin Network, right?

00:24:16.500 Extend, like my third cousin, my wife's family, my wife's brother, you know, and his sister-in-law and this guy over here and this family that married into our family 300 years ago.

00:24:25.660 And now we're best friends.

00:24:26.580 And this family down the street and this family that we've been close friends with, Kith and Kin, right?

00:24:32.140 Then after that is community.

00:24:33.680 It might be your village.

00:24:34.520 It could be your tribe.

00:24:35.520 It could be your neighborhood.

00:24:37.000 The community aspect.

00:24:38.360 Somebody there would step forward and mentor you.

00:24:40.460 If everything else fell through, somebody would step forward and mentor you.

00:24:44.940 And if that fell through, you had church, you had religion, you had community, your synagogue or your church or your mosque or whatever it was you had.

00:24:54.420 That was level five.

00:24:55.460 And all of those things would connect and you would build secure attachment.

00:24:59.120 You would make friends.

00:25:00.060 You would find your partner, your wife.

00:25:01.760 You get married.

00:25:02.440 You'd have babies.

00:25:03.560 Everybody would know everybody.

00:25:04.940 So you had everybody's data.

00:25:06.220 You weren't dating strangers.

00:25:07.780 You weren't gambling.

00:25:08.540 People would form businesses together.

00:25:10.600 You knew each other.

00:25:11.280 It was an honor-based society because you were pressured to act properly.

00:25:14.780 Otherwise, your life would be a disaster from then on because no one would trust you.

00:25:18.220 Everything was built on these five networks.

00:25:20.660 All five have been destroyed.

00:25:22.500 We don't have any of them anymore.

00:25:24.920 Yeah.

00:25:25.080 What a sad state of affairs.

00:25:26.560 And I don't see that improving anytime soon, especially as we're more connected digitally.

00:25:31.740 And look, we started this by saying, you know, social media is great in a lot of ways with regards to marketing and getting a message out there and teaching millions of people something they would not have access to any other way.

00:25:42.760 But also, it allows us to have these faux relationships that make us believe that we have 5,000 friends when we don't have a single one.

00:25:51.400 It's true.

00:25:51.820 It's true.

00:25:52.260 I do think that we are bringing back level four, the community.

00:25:58.040 I think we're bringing back level four with digital communities, digital connections.

00:26:02.220 I think level four is coming back.

00:26:04.060 I have my private network, the attachment circle, right?

00:26:07.180 People come in.

00:26:08.060 They're actually forming physical relationships.

00:26:09.860 I've met people in there in person.

00:26:11.640 I fly to their city.

00:26:12.360 I see them.

00:26:13.180 It's great.

00:26:13.680 They meet each other.

00:26:14.520 They're in the same cities.

00:26:15.420 They travel.

00:26:16.060 They visit.

00:26:16.840 We're starting to build those back.

00:26:18.680 I think level four is building back through digital connections, which is then building level three, Kith and Kin.

00:26:24.620 I think we're making those happen again.

00:26:26.720 Religion, we can't tell what's going on.

00:26:29.260 Sometimes it goes up.

00:26:30.400 Sometimes it goes down.

00:26:31.300 The ones who are very, very deluded in their message where they water it down, those are dying.

00:26:36.700 The ones who are core message seem to be going up across the board with all religions.

00:26:41.440 It seems like the ones that are core to the message of the original religion, people are flocking into it.

00:26:46.660 Young people are flocking into it.

00:26:48.200 But if you water it down, you die.

00:26:50.100 So five, four, and three are starting to filter back.

00:26:53.600 There's people like you who are teaching, right?

00:26:56.880 I was looking at your slogan just this morning on Instagram, building, I can't remember the wording, so forgive me, but masculinity, bringing back, standing between your family and danger, building that back.

00:27:09.740 Now, you're not just talking about physical danger or social danger.

00:27:12.500 You're also talking about their emotional and mental danger, building that back, fostering that connection.

00:27:18.180 I have four children.

00:27:19.040 Like I said, number five is coming.

00:27:20.600 I am personally responsible for the mental health and mental outcomes and emotional health of my children.

00:27:27.560 Now, my wife takes front point on a lot of that because she's their mom when they're small, but I am personally responsible for their emotional and mental well-being as well, and I track that very carefully.

00:27:37.580 And we make sure that they're doing well.

00:27:40.140 I need to protect them in that way.

00:27:42.560 That's also fatherhood in the modern era.

00:27:44.440 So, yes, a lot of those have been broken, but I do believe we are bringing back one and three and four and five.

00:27:52.480 We're working on number two, the extended family.

00:27:54.160 That'll come.

00:27:54.660 I think it's coming.

00:27:55.700 We're rebuilding.

00:27:56.280 I hope so.

00:27:56.900 That's the white pill here.

00:27:58.020 That's the white pill here, you guys.

00:27:59.220 We are rebuilding.

00:28:00.460 It's just going to take some time.

00:28:01.580 As you were talking about responsibility, I can't help but think that just that alone has a large part to play with your attachment style.

00:28:10.200 Because if you're anxious, you're taking everything on.

00:28:15.380 You're not really looking at that in a healthy way.

00:28:17.040 If you're avoiding it, you believe that, like you said, it's everybody else's problem.

00:28:19.980 But I imagine that a responsible person, somebody who believes that they have a responsibility, not just for themselves, that selfishness, but they have a responsibility for the people around them.

00:28:30.960 And they have also a responsibility to make sure they're capable of protecting or providing or leading other individuals.

00:28:38.560 I imagine that's a huge part of that, that element of responsibility.

00:28:42.540 Absolutely.

00:28:42.660 And you nailed it.

00:28:43.860 Anxious attachment will believe that they will inevitably fail at responsibility.

00:28:47.520 So they take it on in a cluster and they become codependent, trying to be useful so people won't abandon them.

00:28:53.340 But then they believe ultimately it's doomed.

00:28:54.960 So they end up destroying and sabotaging their own efforts.

00:28:57.460 So they fail on their responsibilities.

00:28:59.420 Yes, avoidant men view responsibility as a death threat, right?

00:29:02.700 I have no responsibility.

00:29:03.980 I raised you till you were 18.

00:29:05.460 Now you're on your own.

00:29:06.520 Get out.

00:29:07.120 You know, I fed you.

00:29:07.900 That's all I have to do is feed you and put a roof over your head.

00:29:10.000 That is being a father.

00:29:11.460 No, that's being a social worker.

00:29:13.060 You need to do a little bit more than that to be a real father, to be honest with you.

00:29:15.760 So to that point, I believe, and I want to get your thoughts on this.

00:29:20.420 I'd love to hear your thoughts on this because you, you have been a big masculinity teacher

00:29:24.880 and a man who calls men to action in a good way.

00:29:27.940 And I've admired that about you for years now.

00:29:29.860 So I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

00:29:31.460 I believe that masculinity essentially died in the West.

00:29:35.000 It died.

00:29:35.500 Okay.

00:29:35.900 And women became masculine to try to step into that role.

00:29:40.660 I think that, you know, 40, 50, 60 years ago, women became the guardians of masculinity

00:29:46.060 to create order and structure when men died or checked out largely.

00:29:50.300 I think that then we had an emergence or a rising, a rebirth of masculinity, but a child

00:29:55.300 version.

00:29:55.940 I think it was shepherded by women in the seventies and eighties, maybe the nineties child

00:30:01.560 masculinity of, okay, mom, I'll be good.

00:30:04.240 I'll be nice.

00:30:04.920 I'll be happy.

00:30:05.800 I'll do whatever you tell me to.

00:30:07.380 I think that, that rose up and we had a lot of happy wife, happy life became the message

00:30:11.520 during that time.

00:30:12.660 Um, I think that now we're in the middle or we're, we're maybe at the tail end of what

00:30:16.300 I would call juvenile masculinity.

00:30:18.080 I think the reborn masculinity has been going through its turbulent teenage years with look

00:30:23.220 at me.

00:30:23.740 I can bang a pile of supermodels every night.

00:30:25.880 How many Bugattis do you have?

00:30:27.540 You know, I'm buff.

00:30:28.460 I'm tough.

00:30:29.100 Nobody tells me what to do.

00:30:30.480 We're regaining personal sovereignty, which is the first real step of masculinity.

00:30:35.220 Like you said, beautifully, you cannot take care of other people.

00:30:38.100 If you cannot master yourself, if you cannot take care of yourself, personal sovereignty

00:30:41.880 is the spring point for everything else to come after that.

00:30:45.040 But I believe we are emerging into adult masculinity when mature masculine, what I call secure

00:30:50.020 masculinity.

00:30:50.940 I believe we're emerging into that.

00:30:53.320 I've seen Andrew Tate.

00:30:54.440 I've seen video of him.

00:30:55.600 People ask him, would you ever get married?

00:30:57.020 And he says, you know, when I was young, I would have said no, but I'm starting to rethink

00:30:59.860 my stance on that.

00:31:00.760 I think, I think love is worthy of taking a risk.

00:31:03.400 He's, he's starting to say that, which is fascinating.

00:31:05.300 12 years ago, we had a guy named Roosh V.

00:31:07.260 If you're familiar with him, he was in red pill circles and he was, he wrote bang this city,

00:31:11.520 bang that city, how to sleep with women, how to do predatory things.

00:31:15.040 Basically to get women.

00:31:16.140 And he disavowed his entire body work, had a religious conversion, and now teaches men

00:31:21.680 to step forward in masculinity and to embrace responsibilities.

00:31:24.520 Not perfect, but I mean, we're seeing this emergence of this mature adult masculinity.

00:31:29.320 I think finally that is my belief and masculinity, mature masculinity springs from personal sovereignty

00:31:37.480 that then creates the basis for responsibility.

00:31:41.940 Like you said, taking care of others, drawing those bigger circles, protecting others, providing,

00:31:46.800 I see a back air on your board, right?

00:31:48.860 The right behind over your shoulder, the call of manhood right there.

00:31:52.760 That's my thought is that we are in the middle of an adult awakening of mature masculinity,

00:31:57.980 drawing out from the turbulent juvenile years.

00:32:00.920 What do you think of that?

00:32:01.840 Am I off base or am I there?

00:32:05.500 Man, let me pause the conversation very briefly.

00:32:08.300 Adam talked a lot about today, the concept of the male solution network.

00:32:12.220 Now I've never quite heard it referred to it that way, but I liked that concept because

00:32:15.960 it perfectly describes what we're doing inside our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council.

00:32:20.340 Now, by now I'm sure you've heard of it.

00:32:22.620 And for many of our current members, they sat on the fence for months, if not years before

00:32:27.200 deciding to commit to their own band of brothers.

00:32:30.140 And that's why this week, this week, we've decided to pull back the curtain and give you

00:32:34.660 a look inside what we're doing in the iron council.

00:32:37.700 So if you want to learn more about what we are doing and get that sneak peek, join us this

00:32:42.260 Thursday, get your calendars out this Thursday, January 4th at eight o'clock PM Eastern.

00:32:49.460 Again, it's Thursday, January 4th at eight o'clock PM Eastern for an iron council preview,

00:32:55.460 where you'll hear from me and some of our senior leadership and get a closer behind the scenes

00:33:01.300 look at how the iron council may serve you.

00:33:04.140 Again, that's Thursday, January 4th at 8 PM Eastern.

00:33:08.240 And all you have to do is go to the link, the iron council.com slash preview, the iron

00:33:14.720 council.com slash preview, January 4th, Thursday, 8 PM Eastern.

00:33:19.460 The iron council.com slash preview.

00:33:21.200 You'll be able to do that on Thursday for now.

00:33:23.200 Let's get back to it with Adam.

00:33:26.000 No, I think you're, I think we use slightly different terminology and I'll explain that

00:33:30.300 in a second, but I think you're very much accurate on that.

00:33:33.140 I mean, I wrote a book in 2016 called sovereignty, the battle for the hearts and minds of men.

00:33:36.980 It was all focused on taking care of yourself first so that you could effectively lead other

00:33:42.020 people, not just isolate the terms that I use.

00:33:45.240 And I think we're in alignment on this.

00:33:46.580 We just use different, different words.

00:33:49.140 What I believe is that masculinity is amoral.

00:33:52.600 So a lot of people will say masculinity is inherently good or masculinity is inherently

00:33:56.460 wrong.

00:33:57.280 It's actually neither.

00:33:58.500 It's amoral.

00:33:59.140 Uh, it's, it's just a set of characteristics, uh, actions, behaviors based on our biological

00:34:05.160 makeup, nothing more, nothing less.

00:34:07.000 So our desire to, uh, be competitive to our propensity for violence, uh, dominance, aggression,

00:34:15.300 stoicism.

00:34:16.300 Those are amoral.

00:34:17.880 You could use those to harm other individuals, or you can use those to serve people.

00:34:21.860 So masculinity, I think is what you would call, uh, maybe I can't remember exactly the, the

00:34:27.620 immature masculine, I think is what you may have said.

00:34:30.420 Juvenile.

00:34:30.920 Yeah.

00:34:31.320 Yeah.

00:34:32.040 Um, I call that's the one that that's the one that rejects responsibility.

00:34:35.840 Like you're talking about, what do you, what do you call it?

00:34:37.680 Of course.

00:34:38.320 Uh, what I would call somebody who has risen above that is not necessarily mature masculinity,

00:34:44.140 but manliness, which I think are one in the same.

00:34:46.660 Like it's your ability to harness those masculine characteristics for the betterment of yourself

00:34:52.640 and the people around you.

00:34:53.640 And once you can do that, then I believe we hear it.

00:34:57.220 Even people will say it.

00:34:58.280 That's a man.

00:34:59.440 And what they're describing is somebody who's honorable, who's using his characteristics

00:35:03.740 to better other people or himself.

00:35:06.760 So that's, that's how I choose to look at it.

00:35:09.080 I love that.

00:35:09.740 I think masculinity finds its fullness in responsibility for others and over others.

00:35:14.500 We might say service.

00:35:15.720 I like, I like that word, but other men would balk at that and would say, and other men would

00:35:20.540 say, you know, I'm not a slave to other people.

00:35:22.620 You don't have to be again, personal sovereignty at all times informs everything you do because

00:35:27.860 you, and you must defend your personal sovereignty, whether that's against your addictions, your

00:35:32.080 weakness, your fear, but also other people encroaching upon it and demanding from you.

00:35:36.780 Personal sovereignty allows you to take care of others, but then we find our fullness,

00:35:41.560 our fullness is in care for others.

00:35:43.500 Otherwise you're just, you're, you're just a man in the woods is your life is masturbation

00:35:47.940 and there's no point to it, but in care for others and responsibility and crafting a legacy,

00:35:52.480 that's where manhood finds itself.

00:35:54.740 I love that.

00:35:55.840 I like that.

00:35:56.200 You're talking about services, not slavery necessarily.

00:35:59.240 You, you, you, you can make a choice.

00:36:01.120 Somebody who's enslaved cannot make a choice.

00:36:03.760 They have no sovereignty, but somebody who's actively choosing to serve others still has

00:36:09.200 a choice whether they do it or not.

00:36:10.920 You know, you look at the greatest example, Jesus Christ.

00:36:13.220 And I know not everybody will like this, this, uh, analogy here, but, uh, obviously a servant

00:36:19.000 leader, no one would consider him a slave.

00:36:22.240 He was sovereign over the world, in fact, and yet he chose to serve other people.

00:36:28.080 That's the thing is in, in, in the moment of servitude, you must maintain personal sovereignty.

00:36:34.960 You are choosing to serve not because you must, but because it aligns with your purpose, with

00:36:42.180 your mission, with your desire, you are choosing to serve others because it serves a greater

00:36:48.440 good that you are actually in service to.

00:36:51.640 You don't go to your wife and say, Oh, I am your slave.

00:36:54.520 Tell me what to do.

00:36:55.540 Please step on me.

00:36:56.740 Right.

00:36:56.920 You say, I am building a family.

00:36:59.560 I'm building not just four kids and a wife.

00:37:02.160 I am building a thriving legacy that will survive 300 years from now.

00:37:07.100 When they have forgotten my name, they will still be honorable and caring for each other

00:37:12.420 and strong, and they will make this world a better place.

00:37:16.080 Right.

00:37:16.600 I call it the rule of three.

00:37:17.820 You take you, you have three people that you mentor or train or, or, or raise, whatever

00:37:22.420 it is.

00:37:23.240 Three people.

00:37:23.940 They have three people.

00:37:24.880 That's nine.

00:37:25.380 They have three people.

00:37:26.080 That's 27.

00:37:26.980 They have three people.

00:37:28.020 That's 81.

00:37:29.000 Now you're at 120.

00:37:30.180 And that's just four, that's just four ripples that it goes up from there.

00:37:34.100 Guys, your ability to craft a legacy is so overwhelming and so easy when you have personal

00:37:41.440 sovereignty and can then act in service to others, but you must never allow yourself to

00:37:47.300 become a slave to others.

00:37:49.040 There's a great movie called cool hand Luke.

00:37:50.960 Then in there, he, he goes to jail and prison, basically a work labor camp.

00:37:55.520 Then they force him to try to break and they try to smash him down and break spirit.

00:38:02.220 And I'll spoil the movie for anyone who hasn't seen it, but it's, it's an ancient movie.

00:38:05.880 But at the end, he, he refuses so hard to become their slave.

00:38:10.020 He breaks out of the camp, goes to a cabin and gets in a shootout, knowing they're going

00:38:15.160 to kill him.

00:38:16.020 He refuses to let them take him back and make him a slave.

00:38:19.720 He lives and dies on his own terms.

00:38:21.700 That is the essence of personal sovereignty.

00:38:24.480 You even live and die on your own terms.

00:38:26.820 You refuse to submit to slavery.

00:38:29.100 Servitude is not slavery.

00:38:31.380 Servitude is you building something meaningful by caring for others.

00:38:36.440 That's the important piece.

00:38:37.500 So the, the, one of the interesting things that I've learned about attachment styles,

00:38:43.480 and I think, again, nice guy syndrome was a lot of, a lot of, is a, is a thing a lot

00:38:48.320 of our listeners deal with is when I learned that it's not just that you want to be nice.

00:38:53.840 It's that you want to manipulate other people.

00:38:56.480 And I think a lot of nice guys don't even realize they're doing it.

00:39:00.160 You're not being nice because that's what you want to be.

00:39:03.360 You're doing it because you think you're going to get laid or you think people are going

00:39:06.960 to like you, or you think people are going to approve of you.

00:39:10.020 And so you're not nice.

00:39:11.700 You're acting that way, but you're actually just manipulating other people and attachment,

00:39:16.640 secure attach, excuse me, anxious attachment and avoidant attachment is all a manipulation

00:39:22.600 to get other people to do something that they don't want to inherently or voluntarily do

00:39:27.720 themselves.

00:39:28.940 A hundred percent.

00:39:29.640 A hundred percent.

00:39:30.240 And here's, let's soften that blow just a little bit for people who are anxiously attached.

00:39:34.380 Yes.

00:39:34.640 All of that is true.

00:39:36.100 And also people who have anxious attachment style and even avoid an attachment style, they

00:39:40.820 understand pain.

00:39:42.080 They don't want to inflict pain on other people.

00:39:44.380 When we say manipulation, we're not saying you're trying to exploit other people.

00:39:48.580 It's that they don't believe there is any way on this planet for them to get their needs

00:39:54.120 met by saying, Hey, Ryan, here's a need I have.

00:39:57.360 Can you take care of me?

00:39:58.280 Can you help me?

00:39:59.080 They don't believe that that's possible.

00:40:00.620 They don't believe Ryan's going to say, yeah, for the sake of our relationship, I would love

00:40:04.840 to help you selflessly.

00:40:06.060 I'll do that.

00:40:06.860 Also in return, could you do this for me?

00:40:08.900 Yes, absolutely.

00:40:10.540 Care, mutual care, non-exploitation.

00:40:13.660 They don't believe that exists.

00:40:15.720 Yes, avoidant people don't believe anyone else is capable of that.

00:40:19.140 Anxious people don't believe they are worthy of that.

00:40:21.940 So they think if I ask Ryan, Hey, Ryan, could you do this for me?

00:40:24.740 You're going to go, Oh, you don't deserve that.

00:40:27.340 Then you're going to get up and leave, or you're going to be grudgingly fine.

00:40:30.020 I'll do this for you, but I will never like you ever again.

00:40:33.720 That's what they believe.

00:40:34.800 So I'll do 10 nice things for you and I'll do these and you'll do, you'll understand my

00:40:39.680 needs and do this for me.

00:40:40.660 There's a book.

00:40:41.340 I have it on my shelf.

00:40:42.160 No more, Mr. Nice guy by Dr.

00:40:43.720 Robert Glover.

00:40:44.280 He's been kind of like a mentor to me.

00:40:46.060 He's a fantastic guy.

00:40:47.040 I've spoken to him a few times.

00:40:48.060 He's wonderful.

00:40:49.160 But in his book, he talks about secret contracts.

00:40:51.880 I am doing these nice things for you and they are secret contracts that you will be so

00:40:56.600 grateful.

00:40:57.540 You will rip your clothes off and have sex with me.

00:40:59.720 This is guys doing chores, chore play.

00:41:01.680 I'm going to do chores to get my wife to have sex with me.

00:41:03.640 No, it ain't going to work that way.

00:41:05.160 She doesn't, she doesn't get turned on by dishes.

00:41:07.020 You are simply removing an obstacle that you can then build a relationship with her and have

00:41:11.280 that sexual intercourse.

00:41:12.280 That's, that's what's trying to be built there.

00:41:14.880 So yes, guys who have anxious attachment, I, and I make this clear in my attachment bootcamp

00:41:19.020 video course that shows you how to fix attachment issues.

00:41:22.440 You must start being explicit in the relationships you have in your needs.

00:41:28.380 Ryan, after this episode, I'm going to, I'm going to reach out to you and I'm going to say,

00:41:31.680 Hey man, is there anything I can do to help you advance anything at all that I can do in

00:41:36.800 service to you?

00:41:37.540 And you're going to turn around, probably say, Hey Adam, I would love to have this person on

00:41:41.260 that, you know, or this person.

00:41:42.420 And could you get me some people?

00:41:43.360 And I'd say, yeah, absolutely.

00:41:44.780 And you would say, but probably in return, Adam, is there anything I could do for you?

00:41:48.280 And I'll say, sure.

00:41:49.840 Do you know some podcasts that I could be on?

00:41:51.740 That's going to be us taking care of each other blatantly and openly.

00:41:55.580 That's not me fishing around saying, Hey Ryan, uh, you know, is there, um, do you know

00:42:01.460 any other podcasts?

00:42:02.600 I'm, I'm sure, you know, other podcasts, Ryan, right?

00:42:05.140 Yeah.

00:42:05.580 Okay.

00:42:06.160 Well, Hmm.

00:42:07.460 You know, waiting for you to offer.

00:42:08.800 That's not going to be me doing that.

00:42:10.100 That's effeminate.

00:42:10.960 Just be doing that was effeminate.

00:42:12.840 You and I are going to be clear and direct after this.

00:42:15.060 That's the goal.

00:42:15.940 You guys is not the get secure and just sit there.

00:42:18.660 Oh, I'm secure.

00:42:19.540 It's to begin having direct relationships and direct sharing of needs and secure relationships

00:42:24.720 like Brian and I are building already.

00:42:26.300 Like that's the, we, uh, we all know that person too.

00:42:29.680 It's that person who you haven't heard from for a few years or a few months.

00:42:33.180 And all of a sudden they reach out and they're like, Hey, I'm just checking in.

00:42:35.840 And you get in a conversation with them and then five texts down the road or 20 minutes

00:42:40.660 into the phone call finally comes the ask of like, Hey, by the way, you know, we all

00:42:47.020 can see right through it and we all do it.

00:42:49.140 I think the biggest thing that I've personally have been working on is making sure in your example,

00:42:54.320 if I'm offering other podcasts for you to join, it comes with no strings attached.

00:42:58.940 Yeah.

00:42:59.440 I think that's how, you know, at least that's how I've known that I'm doing this with the

00:43:03.180 right intention, which is to be a value, which is to serve you because I care about you to a degree.

00:43:08.000 Uh, and, and I want to offer my network to you with no anticipation or expectation of anything

00:43:15.660 in return.

00:43:16.280 But what's ironic about it is the individuals who give without any expectation, whether it's

00:43:21.480 platonic or even romantic are the ones who get in return.

00:43:25.440 Yes.

00:43:26.060 You form reciprocal care.

00:43:27.820 It's, it's not the secure attachment is martyrdom and you are just endlessly bleeding yourself

00:43:32.840 out to other people.

00:43:33.780 That that's, that's anxious attachment.

00:43:35.540 It's, Hey, I'm going to give value understanding that some, some will just drop off and it'll just

00:43:42.060 go.

00:43:42.320 Okay.

00:43:42.540 That's fine.

00:43:43.040 Drops, drops of water in the desert.

00:43:44.600 That's totally fine.

00:43:45.460 But there will also be people who will nurture me in return and I'm not giving to get them,

00:43:50.840 but I am anticipating some of that and I'll be grateful when it happens and I won't try

00:43:55.580 to exploit them.

00:43:56.560 My goal is to over give to them, right?

00:43:59.520 There's a fantastic book, um, a little bit off topic, but I love this book.

00:44:03.420 It's called what rich clients want.

00:44:05.600 Um, by the, the man who started a travel company called Fortis, I believe it's Fortis and a great

00:44:11.380 chauffeur company.

00:44:12.200 And in his book, he talks about, look, people think that wealthy individuals at the top are

00:44:17.520 the stingiest, meanest, scroogiest kind of people on earth.

00:44:22.200 And in fact, they're not.

00:44:24.200 In fact, they are the most generous people because they give value.

00:44:28.420 If you give selflessly to them, they say, I want you in my life forever.

00:44:34.420 Here's a Rolex.

00:44:35.680 Here's this for your kids.

00:44:37.020 What are your kids?

00:44:37.740 Like, let me buy those things for them.

00:44:39.440 Let me keep you around by giving you value because you make my life so much better.

00:44:45.100 Please let me serve you in return.

00:44:47.120 And that's, that's been true.

00:44:48.300 The wealthiest individuals I've ever met are the most generous who give value without even

00:44:53.420 asking anything in return.

00:44:54.840 They don't hand you something and ask you for something they give for the joy of giving to

00:44:59.140 you.

00:44:59.440 And they know that people will return.

00:45:01.520 Good people will return that to them in time.

00:45:03.680 That's reciprocal care.

00:45:05.360 That's secure attachment.

00:45:06.640 That's exactly what you and I are going to build.

00:45:08.360 And everybody at home, that's what you should be building in your families.

00:45:12.460 Yeah, that's powerful.

00:45:13.920 Let's go back to the conversation about oxytocin bonds.

00:45:17.200 You said that you were talking about the guy, for example, who dates somebody for seven months

00:45:21.780 and realizes, oh, maybe she's not the one because they don't properly bond.

00:45:26.100 What does properly bonding look like relative to an unhealthy way of doing it, which is what

00:45:32.840 you see so much on dating apps and modern dating?

00:45:36.060 I love this question.

00:45:37.220 Thank you so much for asking this.

00:45:38.580 Yes.

00:45:39.880 Healthy, secure bonding.

00:45:41.860 You get into the conversations within the first couple of conversations, the first couple

00:45:45.960 dates, you make it clear what you're looking for.

00:45:48.500 Something along these lines.

00:45:49.520 Hey, I just want to make sure we're on the same page.

00:45:51.480 I'm looking for a long-term committed relationship.

00:45:53.520 We don't have to get married tomorrow, but I'm looking for that.

00:45:55.960 I'm looking for a family and I'm looking for a connection.

00:45:58.960 Is that what you want to down the road?

00:46:01.120 If we turn out to be right for each other, is that what we're both building for?

00:46:03.960 If so, awesome.

00:46:04.940 If not, hey, we'll finish our dinner.

00:46:06.660 We'll high five.

00:46:07.240 We'll go different ways.

00:46:08.020 Just let me know what you're looking for.

00:46:10.180 Next couple of dates.

00:46:11.200 Hey, share stories about our values.

00:46:13.540 You actually start talking about values, your desires, beliefs, your religious beliefs, your

00:46:18.660 thoughts, your wants for life.

00:46:21.580 You start sharing those, but storytelling, right?

00:46:24.320 And you start showing each other, how do you live with conflict?

00:46:27.040 What are you overcoming?

00:46:28.400 Can you respect and admire each other?

00:46:31.100 Substance, right?

00:46:32.180 Early dating is substantial instead of fluff.

00:46:35.760 And then third date or fourth date, somewhere in there, you go in for the ask.

00:46:39.240 Hey, I really like you.

00:46:41.040 I admire you.

00:46:42.140 You are the kind of person I'm looking for.

00:46:44.620 What do you need to make this an official relationship?

00:46:48.100 Can we go exclusive?

00:46:49.480 I really am looking to make something with you.

00:46:52.160 It works like this.

00:46:53.640 Guys hear this and they say, no woman would ever want that.

00:46:56.800 Women hear this and say, no man would ever want that.

00:46:59.240 Both sides are craving this and both sides are afraid to do this.

00:47:02.880 Substance.

00:47:03.480 And then your relationship begins on steady footing because you've talked about substance.

00:47:09.180 Now you share things with each other and you have experiences together.

00:47:12.860 You go through hardship together.

00:47:14.560 You achieve things together.

00:47:15.880 You even have conflict.

00:47:17.000 And then you talk and cooperate through the conflict.

00:47:19.700 Hey, we could fight about this, but why don't we reason through it?

00:47:23.140 Why don't you share your side with me and I'll share mine with you.

00:47:25.760 And people are blown away.

00:47:27.200 There's people who do that.

00:47:28.160 Yes, there's men and women both who do that.

00:47:31.160 And you share and you work on conflict and you work as a team.

00:47:34.480 And it feels like co-founding a business together with a successful, smart co-founder who wants you to succeed.

00:47:42.380 That's what a good relationship feels like.

00:47:44.420 And you start to, your cortisol levels go way down and your stress goes down.

00:47:48.860 Cortisol blocks the production and reception of oxytocin.

00:47:51.480 Now, oxytocin is a warm feeling that I am accepted.

00:47:56.300 I am loved.

00:47:57.180 And you start to desire to be in that person's presence more than it creates spontaneous affection.

00:48:03.180 This is where men become romantic.

00:48:05.000 This is where men want to cuddle.

00:48:06.660 This is where men want to hold her and feel and make her feel safe.

00:48:10.380 This is what men fake when they're trying to manipulate a woman.

00:48:13.720 They fake this.

00:48:14.500 But when it's authentic, you feel it's well up from within you.

00:48:17.560 They've done tests where they have fathers come in with a newborn and they have, they measure the spontaneous affection.

00:48:23.280 Is he playing with the child, kissing the child, touching the child, talking to the child.

00:48:26.800 They measure this and then they do shots of pure oxytocin up the nose for the fathers.

00:48:31.480 And then they measure the spontaneous affection afterward.

00:48:34.620 And they show across the board, boom, huge spike in spontaneous affection after a blast of oxytocin.

00:48:41.380 Fathers are way more engaged with the babies.

00:48:43.340 It's just an overabundance.

00:48:45.000 You should be developing this.

00:48:46.300 We, on TikTok, they talk about feminine energy.

00:48:49.220 Feminine energy is about expressing oxytocin and inspiring oxytocin in others, giving it to them so they feel loved and then nurturing it so that they then return love to others and give love.

00:49:00.560 That's the power of women.

00:49:02.080 And that's one reason women are masculine now.

00:49:04.400 So men aren't getting that mostly.

00:49:05.780 But we need that.

00:49:07.100 That's the feminine is the ability to craft that.

00:49:09.900 That is oxytocin.

00:49:11.340 And you should grow that so that at seven months or a year, you are in some ways addicted to each other.

00:49:18.360 But in a loving, intimate way through substance and reason and trust, you have formed an emotional bond together that brings you tighter.

00:49:28.220 That's what it should feel like.

00:49:29.520 And when you are not capable of that, when you are holding back no substance in dating, no truth, hiding yourself, making yourself look good, and you're giving them dopamine, I have to be interesting, I have to be interesting, I have to keep your interest.

00:49:43.240 I have to be amazing at sex.

00:49:44.600 That's the only thing you care about.

00:49:45.780 I have to be great at sex.

00:49:46.740 I have to be hot.

00:49:47.560 I have to be fit.

00:49:48.340 I have to be rich.

00:49:49.240 Whatever it is, you are only dopamine, binging dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, dopamine.

00:49:53.560 And then at seven months, dopamine novelty wears off because it's not the new person anymore, and it's exhausting to maintain.

00:50:00.680 So at seven months, you say, this doesn't feel right.

00:50:02.620 At a year, you say, this is awful.

00:50:04.380 You're cruising for the next person.

00:50:05.820 You're flipping through.

00:50:06.540 You're watching porn.

00:50:07.520 You're cheating on the other person.

00:50:09.160 You're bailing out.

00:50:10.560 You're on Tinder looking for the next match.

00:50:12.460 That's the process.

00:50:13.380 When you fix attachment, you bond properly.

00:50:16.920 That's so powerful.

00:50:18.400 You know, as you were saying that, I was thinking about guys that I've heard who are on the dating scene and single, and they're saying, you know, I would like a feminine woman.

00:50:28.180 And you hear that, like, oh, there's no feminine woman.

00:50:30.460 They're all masculine, which I think is increasingly true, not exclusively true, but increasingly true.

00:50:36.920 But I think the key here is, well, if you want a feminine woman, then you've got to be a masculine man.

00:50:42.940 Because if you're feminine, she's got to be masculine.

00:50:45.480 If you're masculine, it gives her the opportunity in space to be feminine and to soften up, which is what I think most men are after.

00:50:53.360 Correct.

00:50:53.760 Femininity is a well of water, an endless well of water.

00:50:58.820 Water is life.

00:51:00.020 It's oxytocin.

00:51:00.960 It's love.

00:51:01.680 It's nurturing.

00:51:02.480 It's feeding, right?

00:51:03.840 The well is water.

00:51:05.780 A well that's sitting in the middle of nowhere.

00:51:08.360 Number one, people pull up and just take stuff from it all the time.

00:51:11.480 You pull up, a water truck pulls up, throws the hose down there, starts draining it dry, pulls off.

00:51:16.180 It goes to give the water to other people.

00:51:17.780 Stuff falls in it, right?

00:51:19.260 There's crap falling in the well all the time.

00:51:21.660 A well needs safety, a structure to protect the wall from things falling in it.

00:51:27.360 Does it protect the well?

00:51:28.400 And it needs a gate around it to protect who gets to come in and who gets access, right?

00:51:34.180 Masculinity is the protection and it's the access, right?

00:51:38.540 It's a wall and a roof.

00:51:40.140 It's a home.

00:51:40.800 It's a house built around the well of femininity.

00:51:43.880 I'm not saying femininity is the point and masculinity is just there to take care of it.

00:51:48.220 But from a societal standpoint, from a legacy standpoint, from a human survival standpoint,

00:51:54.600 masculinity provides shelter and structure and safety so that femininity can then bring life from within.

00:52:02.720 That is the purpose.

00:52:04.220 And if it's just a well in the middle of nowhere, women become masculine to protect themselves against you.

00:52:10.980 If you are masculine, she can become feminine.

00:52:14.100 It must be in that order.

00:52:15.900 Yeah, I've heard of it.

00:52:17.640 The analogy I've heard is a bowl, but I really like that well better.

00:52:20.780 That to me is a little bit more visual to see what you actually should be doing.

00:52:24.900 And I've seen it and other men have seen it.

00:52:27.580 But the other thing too is that you can't just erect the walls and the gate and the fence and all of that and then just leave it alone.

00:52:37.500 I think that's a mistake a lot of us fall into as well.

00:52:39.840 I think because we did the work initially that it's all fine.

00:52:43.080 That thing must be maintained as well.

00:52:45.220 And that's something that we need to continue to do as men if we want the relationships that we desire.

00:52:49.160 Absolutely, absolutely.

00:52:51.060 As the man, you are nurturing that well.

00:52:53.300 You are keeping it alive, right?

00:52:55.100 Anyone who has a well knows that you also have to protect the drainage fields.

00:52:59.760 You have to make sure the rainfall is falling in the right way and it's refilling the underground reservoirs that then fill the well.

00:53:05.120 You are caring for the land around the well.

00:53:07.720 You are maintaining this well that brings life for you.

00:53:11.320 That is also the role of a man is to protect the well and maintain the well at the same time.

00:53:16.700 That's the role of a man.

00:53:17.880 That's the role of a father, a husband.

00:53:19.920 That's our duty, right?

00:53:21.440 In the Bible, it talks about the man must cherish and protect and honor.

00:53:25.580 You are nurturing this well that life comes through.

00:53:28.660 That's your job.

00:53:29.960 Take it seriously.

00:53:31.460 Yeah.

00:53:31.880 How do you suggest a guy who's maybe in a long-term relationship, 10 plus years with his wife and the kids are getting older

00:53:40.040 and maybe some of the romanticism is gone from the relationship, but he feels like he really wants to build this relationship up to where it once was.

00:53:51.440 Where does a guy like that start and what does that look like?

00:53:55.920 Number one, do not look to women to solve your problems.

00:53:58.780 Number one, get around other men who have happy marriages and start collecting that solution network from them, right?

00:54:05.560 Link up your one little data node blinking in the middle of nowhere saying, how do I have a happy marriage?

00:54:10.860 Link up to data nodes that have happy marriages.

00:54:13.360 Number one, because those guys will kick your butt if you ruin your marriage.

00:54:16.660 They'll yell at you and they'll make you do it.

00:54:18.980 So number one, there's that and you get information from them.

00:54:21.400 Number two, two different bonding hormones, right?

00:54:24.360 Oxytocin bonding.

00:54:25.040 If she's just, if it's just cool, a cool marriage, not a cold marriage, but it's just not warm your roommates, then start with oxytocin bonding.

00:54:33.920 Her emotional intimacy is the measurement of if you care for her, she, you cannot just grab her butt and start trying to go to town.

00:54:40.860 You have to warm the engine up by showing her that you love her by showing her.

00:54:45.240 She is more than a body to you build oxytocin through emotional intimacy.

00:54:50.440 It's, it's ongoing, right?

00:54:53.180 Ongoing connections, ongoing bonds, ongoing, non-sexual physical contact.

00:54:58.080 This is one of the number one things I teach couples coming to my coaching is how to foster emotional intimacy together.

00:55:04.140 You've got to fix that.

00:55:05.280 And it often dies with attachment issues.

00:55:07.260 So if you've had attachment issues, that might be part of your problem.

00:55:09.960 Number one, build the emotional intimacy.

00:55:11.800 And then number two, this is really important.

00:55:13.440 The research shows that the healthiest, long lasting marriages that experience multiple honeymoon events throughout the course of marriage are those that have vasopressin bonding renewed every so often.

00:55:27.280 So you must face challenges with your wife.

00:55:30.380 Women complain that marriages feel stale when they sense the vasopressin bonding is weak.

00:55:36.460 They don't have the word vasopressin, most of them, but they will say it feels like we're stuck in a rut.

00:55:41.340 Men love vasopressin bonding.

00:55:44.160 You go out to a new restaurant and try it together, introduce a tiny amount of stress, and then overcome it together through an experience.

00:55:51.120 Jigsaw puzzles are a tiny amount of vasopressin that you, you solve the little puzzles together.

00:55:56.680 Fix up a car, repaint your house, repair something, pay off a debt, learn a skill together.

00:56:03.020 Take a dancing class, take a cooking class, solve something together.

00:56:07.920 Vasopressin bond by saying, look, we are one hell of a team.

00:56:12.540 Every time my wife and I achieve something together, we literally high five and yell vasopressin because it's an acknowledgement that we did something together as a team.

00:56:22.500 Not I did it and she followed along.

00:56:24.320 Not she did it and I was just there.

00:56:25.900 We did this as a team and we vasopressin bond.

00:56:28.960 And when you do that, both of your brains say, I want this person around all the time.

00:56:33.560 And it instigates oxytocin bonding, which brings a new honeymoon phase.

00:56:38.680 That's what people mess up all the time.

00:56:40.600 Oh yeah, there's a tiny honeymoon phase and then you'll never be passionate again.

00:56:43.860 No, renew the vasopressin bonding and you renew that phase over and over and over and over.

00:56:49.340 That's what you're missing.

00:56:50.320 So give her emotional intimacy and also do vasopressin bonding, solve challenges together, do both that the fire will be burning hotter than you've ever seen it.

00:57:00.140 So oxytocin, that would be more of the, the emotional feelings aspect of it.

00:57:05.460 And the vasopressin is actually working through solving problems in the practical application of teamwork together.

00:57:11.120 Yes. Oxytocin refills her well, so she has a water to give you sexually and lovingly and vasopressin reminds your brain that she is an ally and is priority and makes you prioritize her.

00:57:25.220 So then you desire more oxytocin.

00:57:27.440 You're not just saying, okay, I'll go through the ball.

00:57:29.720 I'll go through the checklist.

00:57:30.740 I'll make you feel good.

00:57:31.980 You say, no, I want to give you oxytocin, babe.

00:57:34.340 I want us to have a great time.

00:57:35.800 These are the guys that they jump in the bedroom and say, all right, you're getting 20 of them tonight.

00:57:39.260 She's like, please, no, I want to live, right?

00:57:41.480 These are the guys jumping in, trying to do that bonding.

00:57:43.840 That's actually him vasopressin bonding.

00:57:45.700 Hey, babe, we're going to hit 20 tonight.

00:57:47.100 It's a challenge.

00:57:47.860 Let's do it.

00:57:48.480 He's trying to vasopressin bond with her.

00:57:50.560 And she's like, why are you doing this?

00:57:52.300 I just want to be shared experience, oxytocin.

00:57:54.680 But if you guys do that together, then hell yeah.

00:57:58.980 Yeah, that's powerful.

00:58:01.000 Well, I know you have courses and programs and you talked a little bit about what was your program attachment circle?

00:58:06.520 And then you talked about your bootcamp briefly.

00:58:08.740 Will you, as we wind things down today, share a little bit more about how to connect with you, what programs you have available, and let the guys know where to find what you're up to?

00:58:17.500 Oh, absolutely.

00:58:18.400 Number one place to start is my website, adamlanesmith.com.

00:58:21.800 I have to be Adam Lane Smith.

00:58:23.780 You can't be Adam Smith, the old Scottish economist, because it's 3,000 books on Amazon alone about him.

00:58:28.900 Adamlanesmith.com.

00:58:30.220 On there, you will find my personal coaching where I train men through this.

00:58:33.380 I help couples reignite that spark.

00:58:35.080 I help people fix their attachments so they can be the man that they are meant to be instead of being insecure and lonely.

00:58:41.900 I also have the attachment bootcamp video course on there that streamlines the attachment fixing process in 10 clear steps.

00:58:47.780 Check that out.

00:58:48.620 And I also have the attachment circle, a private gated digital community where I do group coaching events in there.

00:58:53.820 And I teach endlessly about relationship skills and all of finding this balance in your relationships.

00:58:58.880 Adamlanesmith.com.

00:58:59.800 Check it out.

00:59:00.900 Yeah.

00:59:01.100 Well, I know what you're doing is powerful.

00:59:02.920 I've taken some of your advice and implemented it for the betterment of my life.

00:59:07.180 Again, from a friendship perspective, a business perspective, and also a romantic perspective.

00:59:11.480 So, man, I appreciate you joining us today.

00:59:13.920 There's so much more we can talk about, but guys, you know where to go.

00:59:17.000 Adam, thank you so much for joining us today.

00:59:19.080 It's been an honor.

00:59:19.820 Thank you for having me here.

00:59:20.600 There you go.

00:59:23.280 My conversation with the one and only Adam Lane-Smith.

00:59:26.280 I found that one fascinating.

00:59:28.040 Like I said, to kick this conversation off, I've been looking a lot into leadership, excuse me, attachment styles.

00:59:35.260 And man, this was so enlightening.

00:59:37.720 And it's pretty interesting and fascinating that much of our decision-making process is driven by our subconscious attachment styles,

00:59:46.600 much of which have been formulated in our early years.

00:59:50.020 And we don't have anything or any knowledge about how those affect us.

00:59:55.700 So, I hope this one served you.

00:59:56.940 If you want to learn more about what he's doing and what he's up to, go follow him on Twitter and Instagram.

01:00:01.660 I believe that's where he's most active.

01:00:03.160 Of course, pick up a copy of his book, which is called Slaying Your Fear, a guide for people who grapple with insecurity.

01:00:11.280 Make sure you check out a copy of that book.

01:00:14.860 Tag Adam, tag myself, post it up on Twitter, post it up on Instagram, and let guys know what you're listening to.

01:00:20.100 In addition, we have the Iron Council preview this Thursday, January 4th at 8 p.m. Eastern at theironcouncil.com slash preview.

01:00:28.360 We'd love to see you guys there.

01:00:29.360 All right, gentlemen, that's all I've got.

01:00:31.520 We'll be back tomorrow for our Ask Me Anything.

01:00:33.760 Until then, go out there, take action, and become the man you are meant to be.

01:00:40.560 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

01:00:43.540 If you're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be,

01:00:47.560 we invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - January 02, 2024

ADAM LANE SMITH ｜ Are You Anxious, Avoidant, or Secure？

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