Order of Man - June 10, 2025


ANDREW SHAW ｜ Only You Are Holding Yourself Back


Episode Stats

Length

54 minutes

Words per Minute

159.89436

Word Count

8,678

Sentence Count

529

Misogynist Sentences

11

Hate Speech Sentences

10


Summary

Andrew Shaw has made it his life s work to help men break free from the patterns that are holding them back. And many of those patterns are subconscious. Today we talk about discipline and resilience, the importance of what he calls choice points in our lives, and the critical differences between taking fault and taking responsibility. And how many men have overcorrected against the attack on masculinity.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 I believe that most men know they're leaving room on the table for personal and professional growth.
00:00:06.160 And while their diagnosis might be correct, the prescription that they have for it is completely wrong.
00:00:11.700 It seems like most men seem to believe that if only their circumstances were different,
00:00:16.180 their boss, their wife, maybe their financial prosperity, that their lives would be better.
00:00:21.700 But the reality is a new circumstance without a change in yourself will only produce more of the same.
00:00:28.180 My guest today, Andrew Shaw, has made it his life's work to help men break free from the patterns that are holding them back.
00:00:34.440 And many of those are subconscious.
00:00:36.340 Today, we talk about discipline and resilience, the importance of what he calls choice points in our lives.
00:00:42.260 Also, the critical differences between taking fault and taking responsibility and how many men have overcorrected against the attack on masculinity.
00:00:51.680 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest.
00:00:54.140 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.
00:00:57.140 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.
00:01:01.820 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.
00:01:06.780 This is your life. This is who you are.
00:01:09.420 This is who you will become.
00:01:11.120 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
00:01:16.100 Gentlemen, welcome to the show. Glad you're tuning in.
00:01:20.720 We are going for 10 years strong now.
00:01:22.820 In March of this year, we celebrated our 10-year anniversary for Order of Man, and we are making big moves this year.
00:01:29.900 And one of the things that we're doing is we're opening up our exclusive brotherhood in the next five days.
00:01:35.300 June 15th, we're opening up, and I'm going to talk with you more about that in the show.
00:01:39.720 But if you've been around for some time and you're wondering, what's next?
00:01:42.540 You know, we're getting this information on the podcast.
00:01:44.760 We're hearing from these great guests.
00:01:46.700 The value is there, hopefully, for you.
00:01:48.580 What is next?
00:01:49.340 Well, the Iron Council is what's next.
00:01:51.380 I'll talk, again, more about it later in the show, but wanted to give you that update.
00:01:55.180 Another thing I wanted to give you an update on real briefly is my good friends and show sponsors over at Montana Knife Company are doing a big, big drop this Thursday at 7 p.m. Mountain Standard Time, and they are dropping what they call the Mini War Goat.
00:02:12.760 I have one in my hand right now.
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00:02:21.200 It's part of their tactical lineup.
00:02:24.140 It's small, but it's versatile, and it is 100% made in America.
00:02:28.660 So if you're looking for a good everyday carry knife or just something to have in your kit, this is small, it's compact, but it will get the job done.
00:02:36.560 Whether you need to cut a string or a shoelace or you need to use it to protect yourself or somebody else, you'll have the opportunity to do that if you have the Mini War Goat.
00:02:46.960 Go check it out at montananifecompany.com.
00:02:49.520 And when you check out, use the code ORDEROFMAN.
00:02:52.840 You'll save some money.
00:02:53.920 And that's, again, this Thursday at 7 p.m. Mountain Time.
00:02:57.440 Guys, let me introduce you to my guest today.
00:02:59.160 His name is Andrew Shaw.
00:03:00.840 He is a mental resilience and emotional intelligence coach.
00:03:04.120 He's got a background in coaching science and a lot of additional training and counseling and nutrition and therapy modalities.
00:03:11.160 But after overcoming his own personal struggles with stress and relationships, many of which we can relate with, he transformed his life using proven practical tools.
00:03:21.480 And for over 20 years now, he's guided hundreds of high-achieving professionals through his high-value man programs, online courses.
00:03:29.240 And he's also got a 12-week intensive focused on building confidence, emotional control, resilience, deeper relationships, all the things.
00:03:38.700 Incredibly, he has amassed over 2 million social media followers where he shares real pragmatic, interesting advice in interesting ways shared by both his professional training and experience as a parent and a coach and a speaker.
00:03:54.120 Really, what he wants to do is empower men to lead with clarity and purpose.
00:03:56.800 So, obviously, we're very much aligned and I think you'll enjoy this one today.
00:04:02.460 You know, I've been really interested in your content.
00:04:04.940 I think, tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the information that you put out primarily on Instagram is where I see what you do.
00:04:12.940 Yeah.
00:04:13.340 Has maybe changed the tone a little bit more into the realm of masculinity.
00:04:17.500 Is that accurate?
00:04:18.620 I think it's just, it's, yeah, I think it's becoming more prominent, right, is what it is.
00:04:25.480 I think the, yeah, maybe it was a little hidden, but it's always, I suppose it's been there.
00:04:33.900 I think it's just a little bit more prominent now and apparent in the majority of posts that I'm putting out, which is being received well.
00:04:44.960 I think it's, again, refining the work that I'm doing, always learning, always trying to evolve and, I suppose, distill down and dial into the clients that I can help the most, really.
00:05:09.300 So I think it's just, it's a natural, I'll call it a progression, but it's more, I suppose, an iteration and a refinement of me.
00:05:21.280 But yeah, you are very astute.
00:05:24.020 If it's as overt as you're saying, I don't know if it's just being astute or just seeing that, and also probably has to do with the fact that I am in this space as well.
00:05:35.280 And the work around men and masculinity is so important.
00:05:39.560 Do you think, when you said it's becoming more apparent, you meant that in your post itself,
00:05:44.240 but do you think the concepts of masculinity and manliness are, how do you feel about the way that we culturally and societally embrace masculinity and manliness?
00:05:59.660 Yeah.
00:06:00.260 I think I, a part of me does what I do because of concerns with my son and him growing up in the current climate.
00:06:20.840 And, um, yeah, I have concerns and, uh, I, I see those concerns in the guys that message me.
00:06:30.780 Um, and the beauty of having a large following is a lot of data and people don't really see it that way.
00:06:38.840 They go, all right, it's, it's missed.
00:06:41.460 Um, but I just get a lot of data come through in the form of messages and conversations.
00:06:48.320 It's just, you know, guys, uh, uh, uh, uh, sharing a lot as well and private DMs.
00:06:55.220 And it's just, it's, uh, it's consistent, you know, the, the concerns and I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, I'm, I'm picking that up.
00:07:02.720 And you're just reaffirming, you know, what my concerns are with it.
00:07:06.860 And, um, yeah, I think there's a lot of confusion.
00:07:10.380 I think there is, um, what doesn't help is you've got, you've got, uh,
00:07:18.320 guys out there that are advocating for this almost toxic, um, masculinity almost comes across.
00:07:27.720 Uh, it's, it seems to be combative, almost a, uh, a reaction to, I suppose, uh, toxic feminism.
00:07:38.600 Dare I call it that idea.
00:07:41.160 And, uh, yeah, there's this response from some, uh, guys out there.
00:07:47.380 Uh, and it doesn't seem to be, uh, very well thought out.
00:07:52.560 It seems to be not really a response, more reaction.
00:07:56.200 And, uh, I think, uh, there's a lot of confusion.
00:08:01.140 I think there's a, maybe, uh, I'm going to say pandemic, but it, it's almost that, uh, with my,
00:08:13.440 my belief that there's absent of strong male role models.
00:08:18.540 And, uh, uh, that's affecting masculinity.
00:08:25.200 Like men are being raised by women with a female perspective of masculinity.
00:08:31.980 And I think there's a little bit of loss of confusion and confusion.
00:08:36.300 And I suppose that's why, um, I mean, yeah, I think I've adopted the stance of like, well,
00:08:43.760 I don't see anyone else, um, uh, you know, not including yourself, but I thought, well,
00:08:49.440 I couldn't either moan about it or I can do something about it and try and help people.
00:08:56.120 Uh, uh, because it was the case for me, you know, that was very much the case.
00:09:02.400 So I, um, had to figure a lot of this stuff out for myself and, uh, a lot of confusion, a lot of, um,
00:09:09.620 um, struggle and her suffering along the way.
00:09:14.220 But then I thought, actually, this is, um, this is actually worth sharing.
00:09:20.960 And, uh, I'm glad that people get value from what I'm doing and enjoy, um, enjoy, you know,
00:09:30.800 I suppose informing or passing along information of things that I've encountered, struggled with,
00:09:37.300 um, overcome.
00:09:40.640 Yeah, it seems like it really does resonate.
00:09:44.120 And when you were saying, um, the reaction that some of these men have, uh, I, I tend to
00:09:49.900 look at it as an overcorrection where, you know, maybe men have been so passive for so long
00:09:56.320 that instead of moving into a healthier version of assertiveness and using their male characteristics,
00:10:03.840 they've overcorrected, overcompensated.
00:10:06.700 Um, and it's got to this place where a lot of what you see online is angry rhetoric towards
00:10:13.020 the opposite sex rather than, uh, sort of collaborative effort with women that are different but can
00:10:19.440 work together in harmony.
00:10:20.680 Yes.
00:10:21.580 I think there's that dualism that we, we need to transcend.
00:10:26.560 And, uh, you know, we, we need each other, uh, this literally the, uh, the, the, the survival
00:10:33.260 of the species depends on it.
00:10:34.940 So this combative, uh, uh, competitive approach is, uh, detrimental and, uh, holds us back.
00:10:45.980 Um, yeah, it doesn't need to be that hard, but I think, yeah, um, it is not well thought
00:10:54.980 out and just, uh, I think you're spot on it.
00:10:58.660 It is a, a reactionary thing and, uh, it's almost like a pushback.
00:11:04.920 Um, yeah.
00:11:07.680 How did you word it?
00:11:10.140 I said overcorrection.
00:11:11.780 Overcorrection.
00:11:12.440 Yeah, I like that.
00:11:13.480 It is, it's just, it is like overcorrection, over responsive.
00:11:16.980 Uh, it's like trying to, yeah, uh, level up or whatever, suppress, but I don't think it's,
00:11:24.000 yeah, it's, it's, it's not healthy.
00:11:26.660 Um, uh, do you feel like when you get, when you get the messages that you receive, and
00:11:31.640 like you said, you have a lot of data on that, um, what are some of the things that you see
00:11:35.780 as common, uh, issues, common concerns that the men who are reaching out to you are facing?
00:11:41.000 Uh, I think it is a, um, definitely the, the relationship side of things and, uh, concerns
00:12:00.380 and confusion over maybe vulnerability, uh, and emotionalism.
00:12:07.460 And, uh, there's this, I suppose, these confusion over why this is happening, these dynamics in
00:12:17.300 relationships, be it like a insecure attachment types or, uh, codependency, you know, where both
00:12:26.100 people are pulling at each other and they're both unraveling themselves in the process.
00:12:30.660 And, um, yeah, I think, uh, a lot of it is, is that it's, it's guys, it's confusion, uh, and
00:12:40.780 unwillingness to, to be vulnerable, which is, I, I, I see it as different to emotional, right?
00:12:47.080 You know, if you're, if you've had a, uh, safe, secure upbringing and you've had a strong
00:12:57.020 male role model who is regulated, who is, uh, uh, you know, um, who has worked on himself
00:13:06.820 and he's, dare I say, in his, in his masculine, um, then you're, you're going to be fine.
00:13:14.720 You know, as a guy, you, you're, you're pretty set, but it's the guys that are struggling
00:13:19.520 that, you know, that didn't have that maybe were in, um, environments where they saw quite
00:13:28.160 a, uh, a toxic, uh, a poor relationship sort of modeled to them where there was, uh, dysregulation,
00:13:41.720 dysfunction. So it's, it's that struggle that I see with a lot of the guys that confusion
00:13:47.000 and, uh, you know, um, maybe, uh, a, uh, struggle with, you know, the, the relationship aspect.
00:13:58.160 I know that was the case for me. It was, um, yeah, a lot of confusion, a lot of struggles
00:14:04.240 took a long time to, um, figure this stuff out as to why the struggling is coming through
00:14:10.420 and we're seeing the same things occurring where guys can't, um, maybe they're misjudging
00:14:20.720 night, uh, like dis, uh, self-respect and disrespect, um, shit tests, uh, you know, things like
00:14:30.080 that, um, maybe conflict or fear of isolation. A lot of these fears are leading to, to poor
00:14:37.420 behavior and, um, struggles in relationship. I think a lot of the guys out there who, who
00:14:46.140 fall into that category become nice guys who just get, you know, uh, not walked over in
00:14:56.760 relationships, but there's very much, uh, I think, uh, what's the word I'm looking for?
00:15:03.560 A frustration or a resentment from the female in the relationship where they're looking for
00:15:09.860 guys to lead. And this is not by force or control. It's just, you know, being, um, being
00:15:18.480 aligned or having a purpose or a passion that you're working on. And, um, yeah, that can be,
00:15:26.220 can be hard for a lot of guys because there's a lot of distraction out there and, um, they
00:15:33.940 may not be engaging in what they really want to do. So there's a frustration in them, which
00:15:38.980 leads to the frustration in the other half, but then there's this fear about conflict in
00:15:44.540 the relationship. And most of the guys I work with, they see it as the end. It's like a finality.
00:15:49.920 So they avoid it. They don't want to have that conflict, uh, terrified of it. And, um, yeah,
00:15:57.560 they're great business wise and they can compete. It's almost like a, um, a subtle imperceptible
00:16:04.640 competition that they do as opposed to a direct, uh, open over competition. Um, they're very
00:16:12.460 much, I've noticed like a fear around any conflict having discussion, uh, that might bring
00:16:18.500 up, uh, an, um, an emotional charge, like a situation with their spouse because they can't
00:16:26.140 handle it. You know, they don't like it because they're not regulated in that sense. So it always
00:16:31.000 leads to them, um, getting out of control, you know, so they avoid it. Then there's that
00:16:37.760 resentment in them. Um, they think that conflict is the end and they will, I suppose, some of
00:16:44.960 them, I've noticed don't put up boundaries. They are very much, you know, just accept that
00:16:53.140 poor behavior and tolerate disrespect in the relationship. And for me, um, that's, that's
00:17:00.020 when the female part in the relationship, that's when they lose respect for the, uh, the male
00:17:09.020 relationship. So I think it's, uh, yeah, it's a myriad of things that leads to this, um, degradation
00:17:19.020 of masculinity. And, and I think that's what a lot of the guys struggle with, especially
00:17:26.020 the ones that I speak with. And it's just, there's, it's almost like being eroded, um, because
00:17:32.020 there's so much, uh, I suppose, distraction, a lot of distraction, a lot of comfort, uh, out there.
00:17:40.400 And when guys are choosing that and they're distracted from maybe a purpose or a passion
00:17:46.900 that they want to pursue, um, it's, it's, it's kind of like, well, now all I want is, you know,
00:17:55.400 the focus is instead of pursuing that themselves, it's, the focus is on, I need to have a relationship.
00:18:04.680 It's on women or whatever it is. It just turns to that. And I'm very much an advocate of,
00:18:10.580 you should have this goal, this clear, excuse me, making this phallic shape. So, uh, yeah,
00:18:19.920 we're, uh, just very much this clear decisiveness with, um, uh, these, these masculine traits.
00:18:29.000 And I think that's what attracts femininity. If you are in your masculine and if you're going
00:18:35.160 towards that thing and you're being decisive and you are leading and that attracts, uh, that,
00:18:42.400 that's going to be fine. You'll, you'll, you'll, you'll be fine. You know, when it comes to the
00:18:46.840 relationship side of that, that will take care of itself, but it's, it's when you, when those
00:18:53.000 traits are being eroded and you almost get like a, it's the passive aggressive guy, the, uh, downtrodden
00:19:01.120 guy, you know, they're the ones that are struggling and, and what they're doing is attracting masculinity.
00:19:06.080 They're attracting like sort of women. So they're, you know, the failing, I don't really know if I,
00:19:11.700 you should test the right word, but yeah, these tests that women are just sort of gauging them on
00:19:18.100 suitability for, uh, like as a, as a partner, as a spouse, et cetera, you know, antiquated. It's,
00:19:25.600 it's not just a new thing. It's not a trend. This is that women have been doing this for
00:19:30.720 eons, uh, to test out, you know, guys suitability as a, as partner, how much they can trust it,
00:19:36.860 how much they're pushing. Are they going to let him know? Are they, you know, sort of respecting
00:19:40.780 guys are just continually failing these tests and frustrated that they have to, um, do these
00:19:50.160 tests. And I'm like, well, it's part, parcel really. The world is round. Um, it was just
00:19:57.840 the way it is. I mean, yeah. I mean, it makes sense that a woman who's looking for a partner
00:20:02.600 would, would vet who that partner is. And I think men should do it too. Excuse me. Men should
00:20:10.280 do it too. Maybe we do that in a different way, but I think all too often men are so anxious
00:20:14.600 to be attached to a woman that they don't really set the boundaries like you talked about and
00:20:21.820 they don't communicate expectations and they don't lead because they're so desperate rather
00:20:26.420 than, um, truly trying to find somebody that, uh, is compatible with them.
00:20:31.800 Yeah. I think, I think the guys can pass the test. That's the, do you know what I mean?
00:20:41.340 You were saying that, uh, you think guys can do it for women. Yeah. We need to be vigilant
00:20:47.280 and we need to assess and be like, well, okay, well, does what they're saying align with what
00:20:52.180 they're doing? That for me is like the main thing. She's saying this, but I'm seeing this.
00:20:58.000 And if there's not this correlation, I'm like, yeah, okay. Um, that's, that's not integrity.
00:21:03.740 I can't trust this person. I think that's crossover male, female, but for me, the main, we don't
00:21:10.940 have to do much. Us passing that test is our, you know, um, uh, that's it for us once we pass
00:21:20.920 that test, but we have to be present for that test. If we're not there, that falls into the
00:21:25.460 realm disrespect for me, you know, that it's an evolutionary thing that women doing like
00:21:30.040 in front of you testing you as you're there, if you're doing it behind your back, that's,
00:21:35.880 um, that's disrespect. And that's, that's a whole different category for me. So I think
00:21:41.860 the, I think the guys that are worried about the tests are the ones who probably can't pass
00:21:46.420 the test, you know, and it's like, they're upset about it. It's like, yeah, it's, it's
00:21:52.900 like the kid who shows up to school and there's a pop quiz they didn't know about and they're
00:21:59.140 not prepared. And so they're stressed out, freaked out and acting wild about it versus
00:22:03.280 I think what you're saying is emotional regulation and getting right with yourself, having purpose.
00:22:09.480 If you have those things in place and you're doing it properly, I don't even know that you'll
00:22:14.320 acknowledge what she's doing as a test because it's just not as relevant to you and it shouldn't
00:22:18.500 be relevant. It's just you. Yeah, exactly. Your spot's on. I think it's, you've got nothing
00:22:23.760 to worry about. You're like, fine. Okay. Well, where do I sit? Give me the test paper. I'm ready
00:22:28.620 to go. Um, if it is that test, but it's, it's like an, a natural thing. And, and guys that
00:22:35.420 are getting, you know, the knickers in the twist about having to do this, you know, sort of
00:22:41.780 women doing that. I'm like, well, that's an evolutionary thing to, for them to, let's
00:22:46.940 say, suss out your, uh, suitability as a, as a, as a mate. I'm like, well, it's just
00:22:52.860 the way it goes. Um, but if you're, if you're not that way inclined, yeah, of course you're
00:22:59.500 going to, yeah, you won't like it because you're not eligible in there and you haven't
00:23:05.780 got your, can I swear? Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely. You haven't got your shit together. Um, so
00:23:12.860 yes, um, women will suss that out. They can, they'll weed that out. And, uh, yeah, I think
00:23:21.660 if you've got your shit together, then you're in a good place. And that's, it's rare though.
00:23:29.380 What I'm seeing is rare because a lot of the guys just don't have a regulation, uh, and
00:23:35.900 that trust and they struggle with that. And I'm not, it's, there's a difference between
00:23:41.100 fault and responsibility. It may not have been your fault that you weren't shown this
00:23:44.980 stuff. It wasn't your fault, but it is your responsibility to do something about it. If
00:23:51.280 you want to improve the quality of your life, if you want the relationship, uh, that you've,
00:23:57.380 um, been craving and, uh, wouldn't necessarily crave it. It's just like it will come as a
00:24:04.240 by-product of you focusing on your, uh, your self, you know, ultimately, um, improving that
00:24:12.720 in, in all these domains of your life, working on those things. And, um, yeah, um, I don't
00:24:20.440 see it as like a completion. I think if you've got a good thing going on and you're happy by
00:24:30.300 yourself, you know, if you're, if you're comfortable in, uh, in your own life, what you've got going
00:24:38.200 on, then, uh, you, you, you don't have to, don't really have to look like the right person will
00:24:45.440 come along, but it's a case of, you've got to be the right person to, uh, attract the right
00:24:49.760 person. Um, right. I'm very conscious that we're skewed this towards like a relationship
00:24:54.480 thing, but yeah, that's, that's my concerns with the masculinity side of things. Like the guy's
00:25:01.180 trying to be this alpha male, you know, the alpha male or what have you. And I'm, I think
00:25:08.620 correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the guy that actually came up with that, uh, alpha male
00:25:15.460 thing, recorrected himself and said, Oh really? Not the case. Yeah. So people who are trying
00:25:21.600 to, you know, be this, like the, the alpha male V and I'm like, that doesn't, that's the
00:25:27.160 problem that the, it's not just one. It can be many alpha males. You just have to show
00:25:34.720 up for yourself. You can still be an alpha male. You can be a leader. I don't even really
00:25:41.500 like my term, that term, but, uh, yeah, but it seems to be banded around a lot and there's
00:25:47.120 a lot of confusion around that. And, um, yeah, you just have to, cause you, that leads into
00:25:56.080 a comparison thing. And we're kind of like sort of against them and you, you, you, you
00:26:01.800 missed the point for me and that's missing the point. And you, your focus should be on
00:26:05.200 yourself and what you're doing. I often joke with people that our eyes are on the wrong
00:26:11.020 way around. You know, we're always projecting and looking out on what have they got? What
00:26:15.480 have they got? What are they doing in this? And I'm like, you're missing a whole look at
00:26:19.520 your own. So there's a lot of distraction out there. And if you, you can dial it in and focus
00:26:24.740 on what you're doing, it's going to be a lot better for you.
00:26:31.960 Men, I'm going to pause the conversation briefly. As you know, I talked about it a little bit
00:26:37.260 earlier. The iron council is opening up again, uh, June 15th. Now, many of you know, this
00:26:43.020 is an exclusive brotherhood of high integrity men. And we're all committed to deep personal
00:26:49.080 development, physically, mentally, emotionally, relationally, even spiritually. But it's more
00:26:54.100 than just a networking group or a group of guys you work out with. It's an accountability
00:26:59.360 driven community. And the men inside the iron council, they experience real transformation
00:27:03.740 because we help them confront their fears. Uh, we challenge their, their comfort zones and
00:27:09.180 we help them push through their, their own internal resistance. Uh, we work together in
00:27:13.740 very small cohorts of, of like-minded men. Uh, but the iron council operates on standards of
00:27:20.080 accountability, self-improvement. And at this point, we've literally helped thousands
00:27:24.480 of men navigate divorce, uh, new leadership roles, parenting, business pivots, and so much
00:27:29.860 more. So again, we're opening up June 15th. So right now, what I want you to do, uh, after
00:27:34.300 the show actually is to head over to order of man.com slash iron council. That's order of
00:27:39.900 man.com slash iron council. Get signed up because I'm going to send you an email on the
00:27:44.080 15th and let you know that we are officially open for enrollment again, order of man.com
00:27:49.780 slash iron council. Do that after the show for now, let's finish up with Andrew.
00:27:55.960 Where do you, so with men who have maybe some of these insecurity issues, disrespect,
00:28:01.520 lack of self-respect, that nice guy term that you had talked about, where do you suggest
00:28:06.200 a man like this start? Because you say, you know, focus on yourself, work on yourself,
00:28:09.900 have a mission. And I agree with that, but what in practicality would that look like?
00:28:14.920 Yeah, that's it. Um, it's coming down to it. It's like this, the simplest version would be
00:28:24.840 just concentrating on your, you know, just take one day at a time. It's what are you doing
00:28:31.520 in your, um, private life that doesn't align with your public? That's, that's a big thing
00:28:41.920 for me. When you get those things, uh, when you get that, that's integrity. You know, you're
00:28:49.440 showing up for yourself when no one's watching, right? You know, whatever it could be, it could
00:28:56.420 be, um, you know, workouts could be cold shower. It could be some journaling. It could be doing,
00:29:04.200 working on this project that you've got in mind and not needing to tell everyone about it. It's,
00:29:10.320 it's in private. Do you like that person? Uh, or is there a disconnect between the persona,
00:29:19.340 uh, that you're a facade that you're, it doesn't feel like a facade, like the person that's in public.
00:29:27.540 And there is, is there a difference? I get this when people tell me that just like, Oh,
00:29:32.140 I'm just drained by, um, when I'm out in public and meeting people on social gatherings. I'm like,
00:29:39.620 it's because you're putting on my performance. You're like an actor going backstage and taking
00:29:44.280 off all their costume and just going exhausted because you're putting on this performance because
00:29:49.060 there's such a difference. There's a discrepancy dissonance between this public person and this
00:29:56.700 private person. When you start doing things to align them, that's when you're, uh, you're going to see
00:30:04.000 a lot of change and a lot more, um, uh, I suppose, uh, happy. There's going to be more happiness in
00:30:12.440 your life. You're going to feel more confident in your self worth and esteem is going to go up
00:30:18.840 because you can trust yourself more. And again, it's just keeping these commitments that you made
00:30:25.640 to yourself and just to distill them further down. Those commitments are going to require you to do
00:30:34.080 some uncomfortable stuff when it comes to, uh, the time, not how you feel. That's, I mean,
00:30:42.160 that's a big problem that most people face with procrastination because it's just, it's uncomfortable
00:30:48.640 at the time. And, uh, yeah, for me, I'm, um, a big believer. You do it when it's time, not when
00:30:57.620 you're in the mood. I've got this 35 pound Casio watch, uh, that's been with me for a little while
00:31:08.160 now. And, um, I just do everything on that. And, um, yeah, when it's, when this, you know,
00:31:15.220 tells the time and in accordance with my routine and calendar, that's when I do it, but it will
00:31:21.280 require you to hit these, uh, what's the term someone who's choice points. You hit these points
00:31:29.400 in your day when it's time to take action on thing. And you do it when it, when it's time,
00:31:35.660 not how you feel about it. Your mood should not determine the action. It's like, okay,
00:31:41.120 it's time to do this. And that's, that's some way for you to shore up and to, uh, let's say
00:31:49.560 close the gap between this public and, uh, this public and private person to, to align
00:31:58.400 those two. And you're going to feel a bit more secure in yourself. You're going to feel
00:32:01.440 a bit more confident and you're going to start taking action on things. And then you are going
00:32:05.900 to pursue opportunities, but it's, it, that's, that would be my first port of call for, for
00:32:13.540 guys and the guys that I work with. I'm like, okay, well, let's just establish some form of
00:32:17.680 routine, you know, something in your day that's going to add a little bit of discomfort to help
00:32:24.600 you to match those two up, to align, to get in touch with, um, your, you know, um, self
00:32:35.340 trust and bring that. And I hear it all the time. You know, the pushback is like, yeah, but it's
00:32:42.680 easier said than done or it's hard. I'm like, and that's the whole point. Of course, that's
00:32:46.680 the whole point. You're missing it. You're missing the point. You're, you doing it because it's hard
00:32:51.720 is the point. It's not the thing. It's the, like you, the feeling you're taking charge of that,
00:32:58.320 you know, 644. I don't feel like turning my shower to cold. My mind is like, oh, you've done this
00:33:06.660 every day for the last 70 years. Can we have one day off? And I'm like, nope, bang. And it just,
00:33:13.200 and that's it. I never, you know, it's this stuff that I don't feel like it. It's not a sadistic thing.
00:33:18.020 It's me just taking control. And just that helps with the regulation side of things, because if I'm
00:33:24.160 more in tuned with, uh, physical discomfort, like workouts or, uh, fighting, jujitsu or, um,
00:33:34.760 cold, you know, um, spending time in silence. If I'm, if I'm okay with, actually not those,
00:33:41.440 uh, not time silence, that's more of an emotional, but it's the physical practices. If I'm comfortable
00:33:46.420 with them, then my mind doesn't know the difference between the physical and the emotional pain. It's
00:33:51.720 just pain. So if I can start with these, like physical thing, the, the, the emotional was
00:33:58.900 downstream. So when it comes to that thing, that's, you know, going to be emotionally uncomfortable,
00:34:04.040 I'm going to be more willing, let's say, to experience that because I can do this pain. So I
00:34:11.580 can experience that pain. And your mind's just like, well, it's just pain. I'm like, okay, well,
00:34:15.460 I've turned my willingness to experience that up, that dial. I'm just turning it up a little bit.
00:34:21.260 So when it comes to that boring thing or that uncomfortable conversation, I'm like, okay,
00:34:26.180 well, I'm doing this stuff here and that's going to make me more tolerant, more willing
00:34:33.400 of this uncomfortable thing that I'm doing here, be it like an emotional thing, whatever
00:34:37.980 it is, conflict with your spouse, um, communicating a boundary. Um, but yeah, that's, that's,
00:34:45.880 that's how, that's how, where I would start from that. And maybe having a look at your value
00:34:51.620 system, having a look at, see if it's, is it extrinsic? Is it to do with these, uh, rewards,
00:35:00.780 this sort of riches and all of that, these external things, or is it more to do with, uh, let's say
00:35:11.540 you and your, your values are being, uh, more intrinsic. Like what do you look for? Like
00:35:18.600 respect or relationships and, uh, good, this not, not, not the, um, not like the possession
00:35:26.300 side of things, like the personal values, right? In, in, in internal values, what it means
00:35:32.040 to you, because that's, that's all that people are going to remember you by anyway. And no one
00:35:36.880 is there reading out your eulogy or your epitaph going, Oh, he net worth was blah, blah, blah. He
00:35:44.660 had these cars, uh, he had this corner office, um, blah, blah, blah, blah. No one reads that out.
00:35:51.560 No one reads that out. They tell you what type of man you were. They say, Oh, he was this guy.
00:35:57.180 He was this, this, this, this, and these are all those values. So I'm like, if you can have a look at
00:36:02.360 those and have a look at these areas of your life that, uh, you know, all areas and see if
00:36:09.220 they're aligned with those values. Now imagine someone's reading out your epitaph. What would
00:36:13.740 you like them to say about you? And I'm like, okay, I'm going to start with all these things
00:36:19.420 and start moving towards those values. I'm going to, with my career, with my relationships,
00:36:24.500 with all of those things, are my value, am I acting in accordance with them? You know,
00:36:28.600 goals are like a milestone, I'll call them, or a derivative of those values. And you know,
00:36:35.100 they give us some direction, but they are, uh, the values are at the crux of it. They're
00:36:40.420 the foundation. So if you can start acting in line with those values, more internal, uh,
00:36:44.840 intrinsic, I should say, then that's a good, that's a good way to, to, to go about it as
00:36:50.500 well. I think, have I answered your question?
00:36:52.980 I think, uh, yeah, I think so. Um, I, I also, the way I feel about these intrinsic or internal
00:37:00.940 values versus the external rewards is that the external is a manifestation of how you feel
00:37:07.660 inside and then the work that you do, not the other way around. So I think you're much
00:37:11.980 more likely to, and by the way, there's nothing wrong with having a desire for physical possessions
00:37:17.280 or wealth and prosperity, but it's the values and the integrity that are going to produce
00:37:23.660 those results, not the other way around. Like, like having a fancy car isn't going to make
00:37:28.320 you a more, isn't going to develop your character, but developing character could lead to better
00:37:35.060 behavior, better actions, adding more value into people's lives, getting compensated for
00:37:38.820 it, and then buying a car.
00:37:39.840 Yeah, that's it. I think, I think that's it. It's the value you bring as a person will be,
00:37:46.300 uh, rewarded. You doing it to buy things, possessions to look a certain way or present a persona or
00:37:56.420 something. I think that's, yeah, you're, that's the road to ruin. Uh, you're going to be very
00:38:02.300 unhappy, like acquiring these things. It's just like a hollowness. And I'm thinking if you need
00:38:07.860 those possessions and all they are, it's like a, uh, I suppose like a validation or a fix, you know,
00:38:15.580 it's like, Oh, I bought this and I feel good for a minute. And then that subsides, um, and it's
00:38:21.720 back to baseline. And it's just another thing that you'll probably get bored of. But for me,
00:38:27.520 yeah, I, I, I resonate. And, uh, with, with what you're saying, uh, it's very much like that internal
00:38:36.100 stuff going on and that just, uh, you know, what you put out there, you get back. And I don't think
00:38:44.860 people, uh, even do it to get stuff back. They're doing it because they love doing that thing. And
00:38:50.720 the, the value that they produce is just part of their, uh, that's it. That, that thing,
00:38:58.480 their contribution, if, if you're contributing, you're adding value, if you're contributing to
00:39:05.240 the species, to the ant, it's like, if you're contributing, then, uh, you know, the, the contributions
00:39:12.820 that you're making are going to be rewarded, but you're not doing it for the reward. You're doing
00:39:18.380 it for the, uh, the intrinsic sort of, uh, let's say partly that, that wants to, wants
00:39:25.380 to contribute, that wants to help. You're that way because you are viewing it that way. You
00:39:31.840 know, it's your, it's your take on it. That's how your perception is your belief. It's going
00:39:35.940 to, it's how you see the world. You know, if you're, you're angry, you're going to see
00:39:41.060 like, uh, an angry world. You know, if you're, uh, if you're insecure, then you're going to
00:39:46.860 see like, you know, people, you're going to take a lot of things personally. If you're,
00:39:50.620 uh, if you struggle with commitment and if you struggle with, uh, loyalty and infant and
00:40:00.860 fidelity, um, you're going to see that, you're going to, you know, everyone's cheating and
00:40:06.400 that's your perception because it's, it's yours. And, uh, I think, you know, that, that
00:40:11.100 perceptual, that internal state, that, and how you are there, that's, that's what affecting
00:40:18.300 your world view. And yeah, I couldn't agree more. You, you, you change yourself to change
00:40:24.780 your world. Um, your, your, your mapping becomes the territory, so to speak. Yeah.
00:40:33.640 Yeah. That makes sense. I, I also like that you were talking about, um, starting with the
00:40:37.680 physical. Uh, and I think that applies not exclusively, but I think that applies generally
00:40:43.960 to men, uh, you know, going into the gym, doing a cold plunge, like you talked about. Uh, I think
00:40:50.240 the common verbiage is for men to act more like women. So maybe it's not work in the physical realm
00:40:59.000 first, but it's work in the relational realm. And that's why, you know, you, you see, um, like
00:41:04.540 therapists and why men need to sit and talk about their problems. And while sure, maybe
00:41:09.680 to some degree, there's also some validity in doing it like a man, which is going to punch
00:41:16.640 each other in the ring or going to run up a mountain or go to the gym. Uh, but that's not
00:41:23.100 the common narrative that we hear. It seems. Yeah. I suppose. I mean, uh, I think both have
00:41:30.320 them merits. Sure. I am a proponent advocate of both. I'm just like, if you start that,
00:41:37.420 like if you can do both simultaneously, great. If you can help, if someone can just ask you
00:41:43.320 a question and it's not so much like, it's not, you know, sitting on the couch and ruminating,
00:41:54.100 uh, you know, each week to like your problems and someone just challenging you and saying, no,
00:41:59.380 I'm not your rescue boat. I'm just a lighthouse here. Just asking you some, you know, pointing
00:42:06.400 out some stuff. I'm going to challenge you. You're here. You say you want to resolve this.
00:42:10.820 I'm going to challenge you. I'm going to ask you some uncomfortable questions. I'm going
00:42:14.820 to ask you what is stopping, what is causing this blockage, this, uh, discrepancy between
00:42:23.280 the man that you want to be and who you currently are? Where's that dissonance? Like what's blocking
00:42:29.920 that? And you're just like, oh, okay. It's usually like a suppression thing kind of, you know,
00:42:34.720 sort of, uh, they'll present this persona, but you are supposed to take a, a young, like a,
00:42:42.480 uh, concept on it. There's this, this, this shadow side, there's this dark, you know, sort of things
00:42:48.280 that we push down that we don't think is acceptable that we're going to be judged for. And if we can
00:42:54.580 align those two through talking to someone and them asking the right questions and removing
00:42:59.200 these blockers, great, but there needs to be like a, a, a, a physical, a somatic, uh, involvement
00:43:08.500 there as well. I don't think just one way or the other is a bit, you're hitting an open
00:43:16.260 really. Uh, I don't think that seldom works from what I've personally seen, but there needs
00:43:21.700 to be some integration starting off with that physical discomfort and, uh, integrating the
00:43:29.300 two. That's great. You know, there's, uh, there needs to be a combination of both. You,
00:43:37.400 that's a good place to start with the physical because you engaging and turning that dial of
00:43:44.400 willingness to experience pain up will make you more open and willing to experience the, uh,
00:43:52.000 the emotional side of things, those feelings that we probably just, uh, a suppression. It's usually
00:43:57.900 just a suppression of things. Guys have just like sort of pushed something down. There's something
00:44:02.400 that's a memory. Maybe they have not some engram that's producing a, uh, like a, a motive charge,
00:44:11.400 if they were to remember it and they don't want that discomfort. And I'm just like, you just process
00:44:16.400 that. You're going to remove a lot of this, this blockage is, you know, sort of you constantly
00:44:22.400 suppressing this stuff is, is really the problem. It takes a lot of energy. And I'm just like, if you
00:44:28.400 just look at that, if you're willing to do that, if you're starting off with this physical discomfort
00:44:34.400 and doing these things here, then you're more likely to just open the door and just go, okay,
00:44:38.400 can I look with it? And this is not about like sort of, uh, you know, crying and crying and crying about
00:44:46.400 things. I'm just like, it'll probably, uh, you know, there will be like some sort of, uh, emotional
00:44:53.400 release where you take out that charge from that thing. And you'll think, okay, that doesn't feel
00:44:58.400 so heavy. There's a bit of weight lifted and you, my analogy are common. I use with some of the guys
00:45:05.400 that I work with. It's like this closet full of baggage. You know, everyone knows the term baggage.
00:45:10.400 You've got the closet full of baggage and there's all these bags in there. Occasionally one falls out.
00:45:16.400 And instead of distracting yourself, I'm just like, just open that up. Look inside at the content of that.
00:45:22.400 Instead of like sort of spending all this energy, like trying to hold the door shut and just like,
00:45:27.400 let one come out, open up the content. Don't try and change the content. Just be with that. Examine it.
00:45:32.400 Let yourself feel what's in there and then discard it. And there might be a few more bags in there. Great.
00:45:38.400 But you're working that pile down. Now that baggage in there is declining and you're going to be more freer.
00:45:46.400 You haven't got this, let's say, uh, you know, sort of suppression thing, this, you will have more energy.
00:45:52.400 And you, that is, for me, the starting point. If you're, if you're starting off with that physical side
00:45:57.400 and engaging in that discomfort, you're going to be more willing to that. And it's just a combination of the two.
00:46:05.400 It's going to help you, uh, with everything. I mean, yeah, I was, uh, yeah, I had loads of those bags in there.
00:46:17.400 And when you do, it's just like the weight comes off and you're just like, wow, that was blocking me for so long.
00:46:25.400 Why did I not just look at them before? Why don't I just not, you sort of, you know, some guys are afraid to, to open that or let me open one of those bags and looking just to go, okay.
00:46:37.400 And I'm just inviting them to, to do that, to look at that. And that suppression, that just closes up that gap between that public persona and what's, you know, sort of being pushed down into this shadow side, this darkness.
00:46:52.400 So I'm just like, if you can look at that, if you're willing, if you're, cause that takes a bit of courage. Um, it's, uh, I think there's confusion out there, you know, there's false confidence or fake it till you make it.
00:47:04.400 And most guys are like, you know, you should be confident. I'm like, well, confidence is a competence thing that you're not going to have to start off with.
00:47:14.400 You're not going to have any other, you're not entitled to it. No, no, no. You haven't got any confidence. You need courage when you're starting off because confidence is knowing you can do this and having evidence.
00:47:24.400 You have no evidence. When you start doing these new things, you have to build evidence. And then when you get that evidence, then the confidence comes with it.
00:47:32.400 So telling people to just be confident or telling people that it's, you shouldn't feel afraid. I'm like, well, there is no courage without fear.
00:47:40.400 And you have to be willing to take these steps and just start doing this stuff.
00:47:44.400 Like, uh, some practice little thing and you being more regulated, uh, that's basically, you know, that's a foundation of masculinity for me, like a regulated.
00:47:58.400 Otherwise you, you're a boy, you're a man child. If you cannot, if someone is, let's say, um, saying words to you,
00:48:08.400 and you're getting hurt and irate, they're, they're controlling you. You, you, you just, you, you're a man child.
00:48:16.400 You, you, you, you're, um, might hurt some of the people listening to this, but if someone is saying words to you and you are, uh, let's say triggered by that, that's a good thing.
00:48:31.400 Because you can look at that and just go, why is that triggering me? Or what did I relate to in that sentence that they've said to me?
00:48:39.400 Why is that? Why am I taking that personally?
00:48:41.400 You know, personally, you know, I get, go through my comments section. I get that a lot of hate and DMs.
00:48:47.400 People take the time to make me videos telling me, you know, sort of, uh, you know, that, and you're just like, wow, that's,
00:48:53.400 you really put some effort into that. And I'm just like, it doesn't, it, I'm just like, I don't relate to that.
00:48:59.400 I'm not angry because I don't relate to what you're saying. You know, I don't have any, uh, I know why you're trying to do that.
00:49:09.400 And it's usually from a position of hurt or you're feeling something, you know, you feeling, but you recognizing that's your feeling and you being able to regulate that.
00:49:17.400 That's, that's a, that's a, you know, that's a, it's part of one of those shit tests that women do.
00:49:24.400 It's just, that's what they're doing. They're just trying to gauge, like, can you take this? How regulated are you? How mature are you?
00:49:32.400 There's immaturity and then maturity. Maturity is just you being an emotionally regulated human being.
00:49:38.400 That's a, that's masculinity. If you're, they're doing this shit test to see how you respond to that.
00:49:45.400 If it's like an emotional sort of reaction and like you're sort of grabbing her and all that, and she's going to be like, oh, okay, well, clearly, um,
00:49:53.400 this isn't the guy for me. Well, you'd hope she'd say that unless she's got some issues herself.
00:49:58.400 But I'm just saying that, you know, that is the essence of it.
00:50:02.400 You being emotionally regulated and dealing with those, uh, that's, that's masculinity to me to be able to deal with that, to have that, uh, regulation,
00:50:12.400 to have that drive, to have that clarity, conflict, all of those things that people are shying away from.
00:50:19.400 You know, we're living in a world where it's just, there's a, there's an acceptance of comfort and not doing something because it's hard.
00:50:29.400 She's like, oh, I'm not doing it because I don't feel, and people are like, okay, well, you're screwed.
00:50:35.400 If, if that's, if that's it, if, if you're going, oh, I'm not going to do it.
00:50:38.400 Cause I, you know, I didn't feel like it.
00:50:40.400 And I say, you know, I hear it in the locker rooms that I didn't feel like it.
00:50:43.400 I'm like, well, yeah, that's, that's going to be tough ride for you.
00:50:48.400 If that's your MO that I'm not doing it.
00:50:50.400 Cause I didn't feel like it, but everyone's so accepting of it.
00:50:53.400 They're like, oh, okay. Yeah, I get it. And I'm just like, oh dear.
00:50:57.400 Um, yeah, you, I don't see doing too well with that.
00:51:03.400 Um, that MO. Yeah. Yeah. I'm rambling.
00:51:09.400 No, it's good.
00:51:10.400 I, I want to be respectful of your time.
00:51:12.400 Cause you said you had a hard stop.
00:51:13.400 And so, um, I've got another five minutes.
00:51:17.400 If you want to fire off another question or if you're, um, well, I'm just curious at this point where the guys can learn.
00:51:22.400 Where the guys can learn to connect with you, learn more about the work you're doing and, um, follow along with, with, uh, some of the content that I really love that you put out.
00:51:31.400 Well, thank you. Uh, sure. Sure. So the, I suppose the best experience is on Instagram.
00:51:36.400 It's just Andrew Shaw, BSC.
00:51:39.400 Um, and yeah, I'm on this.
00:51:43.400 I think I'm on most of social. I like YouTube.
00:51:47.400 I'm even on Tik Tok. I don't know how to use Tik Tok.
00:51:50.400 I guess someone should, but I'm on there and, uh, yeah, that's a hoot.
00:51:54.400 Uh, so, uh, yeah, um, yeah.
00:51:57.400 Andrew Shaw, BSC. I think it's the same tagline, uh, handle.
00:52:02.400 That's the word handle for, for each, uh, social platform.
00:52:06.400 But yeah, Instagram's where you'll get the best experience.
00:52:10.400 I'm most active on that just because I don't like, um, some of the other platform.
00:52:15.400 Yeah. Well, we'll, uh, we'll send everybody there.
00:52:18.400 Andrew, I really appreciate your time with me today and I appreciate the work that you're doing.
00:52:21.400 It's been insightful and it's helped me realize some of my own, um, thoughts and, and work through some of my own, uh, things as well.
00:52:29.400 So I'm very grateful for you.
00:52:30.400 Thank you.
00:52:31.400 Thank you.
00:52:32.400 Um, pleasure.
00:52:33.400 I enjoyed it.
00:52:34.400 Thank you so much.
00:52:36.400 Gentlemen, Andrew Shaw.
00:52:38.400 I hope you enjoyed that one.
00:52:39.400 Uh, very, very deep thinker, very insightful, uh, had a lot of great stuff to share on overcoming, um, our, our own challenges, our own demons and not holding ourselves back where everybody else seems to blame it on external circumstances.
00:52:52.400 Um, Andrew is very focused on what you can do to improve yourself and then allow your external circumstances to change from there.
00:53:00.400 So join over 2 million people that follow him on the social medias.
00:53:04.400 And, uh, and I think you're going to be impressed by the wisdom and information he puts out.
00:53:10.400 Um, also make sure you check out my good friends over at Montana knife company this Thursday at 7 PM.
00:53:15.400 They've got the mini war goat coming out.
00:53:17.400 And if you're looking for a good tactical everyday carry knife or something to put in your kit and your truck, wherever, uh, this is a good knife.
00:53:24.400 And then last, of course, the iron council, we want to blow this thing up.
00:53:28.400 Uh, we, we know everybody in the iron council knows that the men who are in there are better off because they're in there with accountability and other men and the challenges and the confrontation all done in good and healthy ways to push men outside of their comfort zones and achieve more in their lives.
00:53:45.400 So check that one out at order of man.com slash iron council.
00:53:49.400 All right, guys, that is all I've got for you today.
00:53:52.400 You have your marching orders and we will be back tomorrow with Kip for our ask me anything until then guys go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.
00:54:02.400 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.
00:54:09.400 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.
00:54:13.400 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.