Order of Man - Apprehension to Getting Married, Men and "The Church," and Feeling Trapped at Work

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:04.980 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.420 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.160 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.700 you can call yourself a man. Kip, what's up man? Great to see you today. Looking forward

00:00:27.160 to the questions we have. Yeah. We got some good ones from your Instagram, one of your many non-fake

00:00:34.300 account of Instagram. It's so interesting. That happens all the time. And you're drinking the

00:00:41.300 right drink, by the way, I see today. That's good. I'm working on it. That happens all the time.

00:00:46.600 And I get a thousand messages. Hey, you have a fake account, fake account, fake account.

00:00:51.040 I really appreciate it. I get inundated. I get more to do from people,

00:00:57.160 telling me I have a fake account than actually the problem of having a fake account sometimes it

00:01:01.200 seems like. So I really appreciate the help. Just the best thing you can do on those fake accounts.

00:01:06.820 If it doesn't sound like me, it's not me. Okay. If it sounds like somebody from India who's trying

00:01:12.500 to be American, then it's probably a pretty good indicator that's what it is. And so be aware of

00:01:18.920 that. I'm not going to ask you for any sort of financial or personal information. I'm not going

00:01:24.640 to try to sell you Bitcoin. I might talk about Bitcoin on a podcast, but I'm not going to sell

00:01:29.700 it to you or tell you about an opportunity. Just be smart and just report it for me. Instagram

00:01:34.740 doesn't do anything, but I don't know. Whatever. Yeah. Copy. I was like, oh, hey, Ryan's getting into

00:01:42.040 a Bitcoin coaching. Interesting. Is that what I was asking about? That's what they always ask

00:01:46.820 about. That's what the ones are that I usually get spammed. I get that a lot. Like, hey, are you

00:01:51.800 into Bitcoin? Let me provide some coaching. I'm like, seriously. Yeah. And I've had people that I

00:01:56.480 know that have given out more information than they should. So guys, just don't do that. Be smart

00:02:02.380 about it. I'm not going to ask you for that stuff. I promise you. Copy. Unless you're going to sign

00:02:06.500 up for one of our events. And in that case, you're going to go to a site and you're going to sign up.

00:02:11.120 Like I'm not going to solicit that. Yeah. We're self. Yeah. We're all about the lighthouse and you

00:02:17.000 being self-directed in the positive change of your life. So. Well, and just secured financial

00:02:22.660 information too. Like, I don't want access to your information. I want it secured and locked up

00:02:27.740 so that everybody's safe. Totally. On that note, orderofman.com slash legacy. We have a legacy event

00:02:35.800 coming end of September. 22nd through the 25th. Yeah. And we're more than halfway booked. So you

00:02:45.240 guys need to get on that. That's a father and son event ages 12 through 16, eight to 15, eight to 15.

00:02:53.280 I have it all messed up. Okay. Good thing you're on the call. If you're, if you're just over 15 or your

00:02:59.000 son's 15 right now, and he's going to be 16, then like we'll make exceptions, but eight to 15

00:03:04.260 generally is the principle. Copy. All right. And well, I'm sure we'll talk about it a little bit

00:03:08.640 more later. Yeah. Shall we get into it, sir? Let's do it, man. Let's get after it.

00:03:12.840 Instagram at Ryan Mickler on the Instagram account, David Osburnson. This is the best part about

00:03:19.980 Instagram is I, I can't slot her names because none of you guys actually put names on your Instagram

00:03:23.840 account. So are you looking for people to read advanced copies of your book? David's trying to

00:03:28.680 get his hands on some advanced reading for you. No, he's looking at help. No, and I appreciate

00:03:33.660 that. I do. I'll probably send out some advanced copies. It will be limited in quantity. And I'll

00:03:41.720 let you know, as we get closer to that, we have a new book coming out, by the way, if you don't know

00:03:45.660 what we're talking about called the masculinity manifesto, how a man establishes influence,

00:03:50.380 credibility, and authority. Very excited about the book. So yeah, I'll let you guys know. We're

00:03:56.500 probably going to have a launch team and we're probably going to help out with that. So there

00:04:00.100 are going to be some opportunities, but just not quite yet. So stay tuned. You can get a pre-sale

00:04:07.540 book right now. I think they're available on Barnes and Noble and Amazon. But yeah, I'll let you know as

00:04:13.720 it progresses. Not quite to that stage yet. Copy. Guild of Dads, he had a similar question around the

00:04:19.580 book. He says, how does it feel with book number two coming up compared to when book number one

00:04:24.260 dropped a few years back? I've really tried to just not have any expectations. I mean, I have goals.

00:04:35.860 I want to hit New York times because I think that's going to give a big boost to the mission

00:04:40.220 and movement and what we're doing and obviously help a lot of people in the meantime. So that's

00:04:44.240 important. But I don't, I don't know. I wrote, I wrote it and then I just, I'm going to let the chips

00:04:50.620 fall where they may. I'm just not thinking about it right now. I'm just doing my other stuff, doing

00:04:54.480 the podcast, doing social media. I, there's been times where I've got really wrapped up in projects

00:05:00.800 and things like this. And then it just consumes me and I get short tempered and I get short with

00:05:07.960 other people and, and I neglect some other responsibilities. And I don't want to say I

00:05:15.180 don't care. I do care. Like I want the book to be successful, but at this point it's out of my

00:05:20.940 hands. So yeah. Okay. The work is, the work is done. So there's no sense of like beating yourself

00:05:26.920 up over it. Just like, Hey, I've done the work and work around writing the book has been writing.

00:05:33.020 Now let's see. Now let's just see how it resonates perhaps. Right. Well, I feel like,

00:05:40.880 I feel like the stage we're at right now is what I would consider halftime. The first half was I got

00:05:46.640 to write the book. Knows the grindstone, punch out those thousand words per day, get the book written,

00:05:51.520 all that kind of stuff. Now it's halftime. I can like recover a little bit. I'm still strategizing,

00:05:58.460 still trying to figure out, okay, the second half, what do we do? Well, now it's about marketing and

00:06:02.240 it's about branding and getting the right pieces in the right places so we can adjust what the

00:06:06.700 market needs and sees and whatnot. So we're at halftime right now. And then in the next, I would

00:06:11.820 say 30 to 45 days is we're back now into the second half, which is we got to get this book out there.

00:06:18.380 I'm going to be on a bunch of podcasts. I'm going to be doing a book tour, signings, all this kind of

00:06:23.140 stuff. So right now I'm just, just breathe a little bit, strategize, and then we'll come up with a plan

00:06:28.720 from there. Copy. What's the release date, Ryan? September 27th, I believe, or 28th, somewhere

00:06:35.480 right in there. Okay. Okay. So what I'm actually trying to do is I can't guarantee this. A lot of

00:06:42.400 this is in the hands of my publisher. Those guys who come out to legacy, I'm trying to get those guys

00:06:47.080 of the first copies. So if you come out to the legacy event, I'm trying to get you a first copy

00:06:52.300 and have it signed. If I don't have it, I'll still get you on. Even if it's two weeks later,

00:06:57.560 I'll just mail it to you. So that's one of the cool things about guys coming to the legacy.

00:07:01.540 Yeah. And, and, and we have the, obviously the main event that's that sold out what in a day

00:07:06.640 or two last year, last year. So, um, and that's what a couple of weeks after. So maybe I think

00:07:12.900 that's the sixth or something of October, somewhere right in there. Yeah. Like guys are like, well,

00:07:19.520 how do we get to that? I'm like, I don't really know the site anymore. Cause it just does. We have

00:07:22.900 a waiting list for that. I think it's order a man.com slash main event, but it's like,

00:07:27.380 we have a waiting list for that one. So. Yeah. Just get ready. Come October to sign up really

00:07:32.880 quick. Um, because if it's anything like last year, it's going to sell out almost instantly.

00:07:37.740 And what's interesting, what was so great about that event is it felt like, and I would assume that

00:07:44.500 most of the registrants for this year were last year's registrants. Like they probably just

00:07:50.380 attended the event and they're like, again, sign up instantly. Right. Which just speaks to its,

00:07:55.480 you know, speaks for itself. The event though, I would say 80 to 90% of them are last year's

00:07:59.400 attendees. Yeah. Pretty awesome. Cool. All right. Byron, uh, Clark, uh, homeschooling curriculum

00:08:06.540 does your family use? We, we use the good and the beautiful. Uh, I hate that name. I really

00:08:12.340 hate that name. It's just a ridiculous, like that's not my objective. I want my kids to be

00:08:20.360 good. I like the word lovely more than beautiful. Cause beautiful kind of makes me make it, makes

00:08:25.500 it sound like physical appearance. And yeah, I mean, we want to look good, but like lovely for,

00:08:31.040 for daughters, I would say, but it's just, it's just not a good name. Cause I don't like my sole

00:08:36.380 objective is not to make my kids good and beautiful. Yeah. I would, I would prefer like strong,

00:08:42.280 like independent and capable or something. Like if I'm having, if I have to choose the grind.

00:08:47.160 Yeah. Yeah. But regardless, it's still a very good program. And the beauty of homeschool is that

00:08:54.800 you find a curriculum. Uh, John Lovell was using, gosh, what is, I don't know. John's more of like,

00:09:01.000 I don't remember either. Yeah. It's kind of interesting. I have it written down somewhere,

00:09:04.440 but he's using a different curriculum. Like everybody uses a slightly different curriculum.

00:09:09.100 So find one that works for you. We like it as, and what I would say is it's a base curriculum

00:09:13.440 because what you'll find happen is that some of it doesn't resonate with you or some of it doesn't

00:09:20.140 help your kids. And the beauty of homeschool is not this like common core thing. It's you can tweak

00:09:25.680 and adjust and change and adapt. I've said this before, my daughter's dyslexic. Well, we didn't know

00:09:32.320 that. So we figured that out and we got her a specific program that deals with learning how to read

00:09:38.800 with dyslexia. So we've incorporated that. So it's our base package. And then we find little

00:09:45.520 ancillary products, uh, to, to shore up some of the weaknesses that they might have in the curriculum

00:09:51.360 or that our kids might need more attention with. Do you guys take like a summer break or is it like a,

00:09:58.120 a full outbreak or is it kind of like light homeschooling during the summer?

00:10:02.960 No, it's, it's pretty much a break for two or three months, just like it would be if they were in

00:10:08.660 government school. Uh, but the other thing about it, this is what's so nice about homeschooling. A lot

00:10:15.240 of things are, but this is one of the nice things is my kids really are only doing work for a couple

00:10:22.300 hours a day. Like your traditional school type work is usually a couple hours. They have reading,

00:10:29.340 they have writing, they have math, they have science. Uh, I think they have a requirement for,

00:10:36.620 I think I said reading already. Um, so history is another one and then that's it. And they do that

00:10:43.120 every day and it takes an hour and a half to two hours. And then when they're done, they're done with

00:10:48.420 their formal schooling. But then my oldest Brecken, he goes into the store and he's managing orders and

00:10:54.940 he's doing inventory and he's doing customer service, responding to people. So he's learning

00:10:59.280 there. Eli might want to do some coding. So he'll get on the computer. My younger kids, they like to

00:11:04.200 draw. So they'll draw or we'll go outside and they'll build a fort or they'll help me with a

00:11:07.960 project. So everything becomes schooling. Yeah. There's no inner life. It's all it's, it's just

00:11:14.940 education. That's why I like, I would prefer the verbiage of home education versus homeschool home

00:11:23.860 education to me is more indicative of what it actually is. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Michael

00:11:30.540 Alexander. I struggle with taking the steps marriage in my relationship with my girlfriend.

00:11:36.020 Hesitation comes from pro problematic relationships in the past. I'm also a child from a broken home

00:11:42.400 that has also been giving me issues. As far as commitment goes, my girlfriend is great and I love

00:11:49.140 her and I love her boy. I love everything we have, but I just can't seem to take the next step.

00:11:54.040 Not sure if this is really a question, but is there any advice that you can offer?

00:12:00.300 I think you've done, it sounds like you've done a decent job evaluating why it is. If I don't want

00:12:06.860 to marry somebody, I would consider that a red flag. And I'd wonder why I'd really want to probe into why

00:12:12.560 that was the case. Because I think there's a lot of guys out there who get married out of some sense

00:12:17.920 of obligation or misguided responsibility. Like they've been with a girl for two years or something

00:12:24.280 or longer. And they think, well, you know, I guess this is just what we do now. And it's like, well,

00:12:28.900 hold up. Like, it's not just what we do. If you're going to make a decision to partner with a woman for

00:12:34.740 the rest of your life, then you should be pretty comfortable with that decision. Not entirely ready.

00:12:41.200 Apprehension is of course expected, but you should feel pretty comfortable with doing that.

00:12:46.920 So I would keep digging and ask yourself, is it really you? Or is there something in the dynamic

00:12:52.260 of the relationship? Maybe it's the fact that she has a child. And I look, I'm going to get a lot of

00:12:58.440 hostility and hate for that, but you're not obligated. You're not obligated to bring that child

00:13:02.860 into your life. You're not obligated. It's not your responsibility. Unless you make it your

00:13:07.560 responsibility. And that's the difference because once you've made it your responsibility, then it

00:13:12.020 is. But until that point, it's not, it's really not your responsibility. Maybe that's part of the

00:13:17.880 issue. Maybe there's some red flags. I don't know. But maybe like you said, she's perfect. And it's just

00:13:22.200 you. I mean, what do you, I don't, I don't know. Like I come from a broken home. My wife and I have a

00:13:29.060 beautiful marriage. We 18 years, the end of this month, it'll be 18 years. I, my, my mom's been

00:13:34.560 married four separate times. You know, is, is that an indicator that mine will not work out? I think

00:13:42.100 it could be, I think there's probably some correlation there because it becomes what's

00:13:46.340 expected or your life experience. But it doesn't have to be that way. You know, that's up to you and

00:13:52.420 your, your potential partner. I don't, I don't know how to tell you to like, get over it.

00:13:59.060 Or like crap or get off the pot. I don't know. I really don't know. I don't know.

00:14:04.480 The answer, the answer is exactly understand thyself, right? Like you got to understand what's

00:14:09.620 going on. And, and I would, Michael, I'm just going to project on you. Be careful that the

00:14:14.920 definition or the explanation that you just gave us, isn't your reasoning of why you don't feel good.

00:14:21.560 Right? Like you could even be looking into this and let me give you an example. So after I got

00:14:27.180 divorced and I dated for, I don't know, was it five, six, seven years. Right. And I was in a

00:14:35.120 different relationships. And if you asked me kind of five years in, like why I hadn't like really

00:14:42.060 committed to a girlfriend yet is because I wasn't ready. I was kind of still dealing with my divorce

00:14:47.720 and I had literally kind of similar reasons, right? Like I had these, like, I wasn't ready yet. And I

00:14:53.720 was kind of broken and I wasn't fully committed. Ironically enough, I met Asia, my wife, all of a

00:15:01.160 sudden I didn't feel broken anymore. And I thought, oh, it wasn't me. It was all the other girls I was

00:15:09.220 dating. Right. Like once I actually found the right woman, I was like, oh, oh, actually I'm fully in for

00:15:15.360 commitment, you know? And, and I was just trying to explain to myself like, oh, what's my issue?

00:15:21.120 She seems great logically and all these things. And I, I kind of latched on to like, oh, it's because,

00:15:27.280 you know, I'm not ready and I have commitment issues. But once I found the right woman, all of a

00:15:31.420 sudden it's like, oh, that commitment just kind of showed up. Not a problem. So make sure that you're

00:15:36.840 not overanalyzing the situation either and justifying it in your own mind.

00:15:41.640 I'm misanalyzing it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's like, that's good feedback. I would also explore,

00:15:48.720 like play it out, play it out. So let's say you don't decide to marry this woman, play that out.

00:15:56.340 Are you okay with her leaving? Are you okay not being around her and her son? Are you okay going

00:16:02.520 back into the dating scene? Like play that out, play it out in marriage. Okay. If I marry her, here's,

00:16:08.740 here's how it could like the pros and the cons, like play it, map it all out and just see yourself,

00:16:15.040 project yourself out into the future. That's one thing I do tell people a lot. Cause they'll,

00:16:19.320 they'll ask questions like, um, Ryan, I've got this, uh, I've got this dream job and I'm going to go,

00:16:28.560 you know, make a bunch of money and, but I'd have to be away from my family or I can work where I

00:16:35.860 currently am and I'll make 20% less, but I'll be here with my family. What should I do? I, I don't

00:16:41.000 know. I can't answer that question for you. Those are your priorities, your decisions.

00:16:44.400 Project that. Yeah, that's right. So now what you do is you put yourself 30 years, fast forward 30

00:16:48.980 years. This is what we call consciousness. This is a beautiful thing about being a human being.

00:16:53.620 You project yourself out to a future date and you look at your life based on the two decisions that

00:16:58.860 you could make. And then looking back on those 20 or 30 years, which decision will you be glad that

00:17:05.700 you made? Yeah. And that's going to give you an opportunity to look at the scenario from a

00:17:11.140 different light. Cause right now you're in it, right? And all the baggage and the emotions

00:17:14.760 projecting yourself to a future date. Look for me, if I had that opportunity with the, the business

00:17:21.360 arrangement all day, I'd be with my family all day long, that 30 years out. No, looking back,

00:17:27.680 like, no being with the family. Cause my kids are going to be out of the house at that point.

00:17:32.540 My wife and I, maybe, unless we go through a divorce, cause I'm not around like all day long,

00:17:37.880 I take the path of staying home and making a little bit less money. That's a bit of a false

00:17:41.540 dichotomy. You can actually stay home and make more money and you, you, you will over time,

00:17:45.940 but just to illustrate the point. Yeah, for sure. And I guess that's the, I, I never made the

00:17:51.340 quarterly I've heard. I mean, obviously we have so many conversations. I hear repetitive advice

00:17:56.040 from you, but I've never made the correlation of that advice to really memento mori, right?

00:18:02.980 That's still a principle of like, that's really what it is. It's projecting of, Hey, I'm going to

00:18:07.800 die. And when I'm on my deathbed, how am I going to feel about the decisions I've made? Okay. I,

00:18:14.760 maybe I'm going to pivot and adjust here because I don't want to feel that way.

00:18:18.160 Right. Right. And if you look at, there's been books and papers and research on individuals

00:18:24.660 who are on their deathbed, who wish they would have made different decisions. All of us are

00:18:29.520 going to be there when I'm dead, like dying. If I know, like, if I, if I'm not just dead all of a

00:18:34.260 sudden, but I know I'm going to die, like, I'm going to regret some things that I've, all of us,

00:18:38.100 I just want to minimize that. That's my top fear, by the way, regret.

00:18:42.340 What is it regret? Just like two, like two large, not like a, Oh man, I should have,

00:18:48.920 but like almost like a sickening, like I wasted it. Like that is, that is like my,

00:18:56.140 that's interesting on my deathbed. Yeah. My, I think one of my greatest fears is

00:19:02.160 like outside of temporal things, you know, like I don't particularly enjoy flying like that, like that.

00:19:07.700 Yeah. Yeah. That's being burnt alive. Yeah. Right. Drowning. Like those were fears of mine.

00:19:12.320 Sure. But I think one of my greatest fears is, I don't even know if it's a fear, but I thought

00:19:18.100 about this is like, I just, I don't want to screw people over. I just want to do the right thing.

00:19:24.320 Yeah. Like I'm always, I'm, I'm not worried, but conscious of it. Like if I could make a little

00:19:31.180 bit more money and maybe jeopardize my values, you know, we've all been tempted to do that,

00:19:38.940 but that's just a concern of my, I don't want to be that guy. I don't want to be that. Cause I know

00:19:44.500 how easily I could, and I've seen it so, so much in other men, even down to like, I'll have, I had a

00:19:51.220 guy reach out the other day. Cause he got a shirt and he had worn it, but he had like had it for like

00:19:58.480 months and it was like starting to wear out. And, and, you know, I'm like, well, okay. Like do I,

00:20:05.800 do I not? Yeah. Yeah. And you know what? Okay. I just sent him a shirt. Yeah. Because that's the,

00:20:14.040 just, it's just right. Like, it doesn't matter. It just like the worst thing you could do is,

00:20:20.140 is in that situation is like, try to squeak out a little extra dollars or a little extra money.

00:20:26.880 You know, I've, I've paid people more than I said I would. Like, I just don't want to do that.

00:20:31.820 Life's too short for that. Yeah. Yeah. And what's a few extra bucks, you know? Anyways,

00:20:36.980 that's one of my concerns worries, I guess. All right. Sam Zuno, how do you go about prospecting

00:20:45.520 for a business and what are your strategies for closing a cell? I think he's not saying prospecting

00:20:53.200 for buying a business, but prospecting for his like business clients.

00:20:57.900 Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm assuming. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I actually have a lot of,

00:21:04.300 a lot of experience in this department because most of my life I've been in sales.

00:21:11.220 Like my retail management is my background. Then I got into financial planning and then this,

00:21:16.600 those are like my, my main three career pursuits and all of them are, are sales related. They're all

00:21:24.100 sales driven. So number one, you have to know who you're serving, like be very specific about the

00:21:31.240 demographic of who you're serving. So when my financial planning practice was struggling,

00:21:35.480 I thought to myself, I'm like, well, I just want to help everybody. That was the wrong answer.

00:21:39.880 As soon as I got clear about it. And I said, I want to help medical professionals, specifically

00:21:46.340 dentists, physicians, chiropractors, optometrists, and veterinarians. And physicians was kind of

00:21:54.840 ancillary. It was more just chiropractors, dentists, optometrists, veterinarians, because they were all

00:22:00.000 very similar, small practices, small teams, good income, a lot of potential for them to invest a lot

00:22:06.900 of reasons for that. Yeah. As soon as I was going to say, and by focusing on them, that allowed you

00:22:13.840 to be able to speak to their needs. Correct. Substantially better than if you were abroad.

00:22:19.640 Right. Correct. In fact, I got so good at the language specifically with dentistry that dentist

00:22:27.000 asked me if I was at some point planning to become a dentist because I got so good at not to be

00:22:34.200 manipulated, but because I, I wanted to understand, understand. And I wanted to be able to communicate

00:22:38.940 with my clients in a, in a meaningful way for them. So that I got so good at it. They're like,

00:22:44.620 were you, did you want to become a dentist? Did you like go through school? They, sometimes they would

00:22:49.800 ask that. So that's, that's the exact point that you're making is being hyper-specific so that you can

00:22:55.700 focus on the needs of those individuals. The other thing it does is it helps make you very,

00:23:01.100 very marketable and referable. Cause if I go to a dentist and I start working with that dentist and

00:23:06.660 do a good job. If I just said, Hey, do you know anybody that would, that would need help? They're

00:23:11.120 like, I don't know. Now they're like, Hey, I do you work with dentists? Yeah. I pretty much

00:23:16.280 exclusively work with dentists. Oh, cause my neighbor's actually a dentist. He's a pediatric

00:23:21.320 dentist. I should introduce you to him. I became so much more marketable and referable because I could

00:23:26.800 speak their language and talk with them in that specific way. The other thing you need to do is

00:23:31.820 you need to be different. You need to be different. If you're the same proposition, right? Yeah. And

00:23:37.800 even that, like, I don't totally like that either because then you're almost like gaming it and

00:23:42.260 everybody else is trying to come up with their own unique selling proposition. So what people will say

00:23:46.960 for like a unique selling proposition is they'll say, like, if I were to ask you a financial planner,

00:23:50.980 what's your unique selling proposition? They'll say, well, I really care about my clients.

00:23:54.200 Yeah. Like a softball. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just better than everyone else. Yeah. Well, we have,

00:24:00.420 we have, we have access to certain products that they don't. It's like, no, you don't.

00:24:04.580 You really don't like what's unique about you. And it has to genuinely be unique. You have to say

00:24:11.580 things different. You have to look different. You have to talk different. And the best thing that you

00:24:16.720 can do for that is to not be needy. There's a really great book called the selling chronicles.

00:24:23.720 It's specifically related to the financial services industry, but the principles in that book are so

00:24:29.960 good. And the whole idea is do not sell, don't sell. So for example, I had a guy and I get this

00:24:43.520 every once in a while, guys who want to join the iron council. And so they'll email me and they'll say,

00:24:48.000 Hey, tell me about all the features and benefits and this and that. And what they want me to do

00:24:52.680 is to grovel over them. Maybe even subconsciously, because that's what they're used to. The customer

00:24:59.200 is always right. This is a salesman.

00:25:01.880 Sell me, Ryan.

00:25:03.000 Exactly.

00:25:03.820 Sell me. Yeah.

00:25:05.040 So usually what I'll respond back is something like this. If it was you, Kip. Hey Kip, thanks for

00:25:10.600 your interest in the iron council. I'm not here to convince you why you should join the iron council.

00:25:15.020 All the information you need is there to make a decision. In fact, here's the link.

00:25:18.700 And if you'd like to join us, we open on June 15th for two weeks. Hope to see you there.

00:25:25.080 Yeah.

00:25:25.940 You would be a mate because all of a sudden it just like, it's like a kick, like, whoa,

00:25:30.280 I didn't expect that.

00:25:31.840 Your confidence is like, no, I'm not selling you. I'm providing a service is what I'm providing.

00:25:37.220 Here's the information for you to make a decision. What's best for you.

00:25:40.220 That's right. Yep. And it's hard, especially when you need to put food on the table,

00:25:45.340 but your customers and your clients can feel your desperation and you become

00:25:51.100 manipulative. You're just trying to sell me now, right? It comes across that way.

00:25:56.440 It does. And the word I was going to, you're right. And the word I was going to use is repulsive.

00:26:00.900 Hmm. Yeah. Like we all make fun of the used car salesman because we know what it's like

00:26:07.320 and we're repulsed by it. Like, like you even go to buy a car. If you go to a used car, you,

00:26:13.260 you like your hands are up. You're like, Hey, I'm just looking. Let me, I'll find anything. I'll

00:26:17.740 let, because you're repulsed by it. Yeah. That's a good point. Okay. A great used car salesman

00:26:24.540 would actually follow up with you and build a base. And like, if I bought a car six months ago,

00:26:30.700 I would call, I would, or if I sold you a car, I'd call you up in six months and I'd be like,

00:26:36.640 Hey Kip, like just checking in. How's the new truck? Man, we've gotten good reviews on them.

00:26:42.920 Have you guys got anywhere special or cool? Like you've been camping or I might shoot you a message

00:26:48.160 and say, Hey Kip, I know you're in a camping, which is why you bought that truck. I just came

00:26:52.260 across this like soft shell system that some of my customers were using. I don't know if you'd be

00:26:57.880 interested, but here's the link. It's pretty cool. I don't have any affiliation.

00:27:00.700 I just thought it was cool when you might be interested. Totally. Well, I mean, think about

00:27:03.860 it. A car salesman is selling a product to assist people in travel. Do you not think you should be

00:27:12.920 an expert in the best ways to travel? That's what they should be selling. Right? And so if a car

00:27:19.540 salesman called me up and said, Hey Kip, really quick. I have a lot of clients interested in that BMW

00:27:25.360 and I don't want to be actually referring it. If it's not solid, could you give me some feedback?

00:27:31.020 What do you like about that car? What's working for you? So I can give them the right recommendation

00:27:35.260 moving. That's cool. Holy shit. You'd be like, that's cool. He is focused on selling a product

00:27:42.020 to assist in travel. He's not selling a car. Plus sense. Plus I played to your ego too.

00:27:48.340 Oh yeah. Cause you're like, Oh, you want my feedback? Yeah. I do want you because I value

00:27:52.820 you. I value, I think, I think you're somebody I need feedback from. So there's, that's a really

00:27:57.700 good, that's good. I like that a lot. By the way. So in consulting, I think a good close rate

00:28:03.760 in IT consulting is around 30 to 40%. I'm not in sales, so I don't know what like good is,

00:28:09.020 but I think that's around good 30, 40. Guess what my close rate was last year. Guess what it was?

00:28:16.020 I thought you weren't in sales. Uh, 80%. When I'm involved on a sales call.

00:28:20.540 Oh, when you come in, you're the, you're the hardcore closer. I don't know what 70 close to

00:28:26.080 90%. Dang. That's good. That's really good. And you know why? Cause I'm not trying to sell anything.

00:28:31.520 I'm doing exactly what you do. When a guy pings you about the iron council, I say,

00:28:35.620 I don't sell this product. I'm here to provide some assistance. Here's your best options. Here's

00:28:40.760 some recommendations. You guys decide if that's the right fit for you. I'm not trying to sell us.

00:28:45.740 I'm just really like, it's really coming from a place of genuine, like, Hey, I want you to

00:28:51.340 consider what these options are, what the art of the possible is in this state. So you can make the

00:28:56.560 right decision for your company. Period. Yeah. And you know, one thing that I've done in the past

00:29:03.260 is, and you have like, this is where that genuineness, that authenticity comes from

00:29:07.460 is I've had potential clients come into my office and sit down and we, you know, talk at a base level

00:29:13.920 about their practice, about their financial planning. And I've said, Hey, Kip Asia. Like I,

00:29:20.720 I really appreciate you guys meeting with me based on what I'm hearing you say. I actually don't think

00:29:25.060 I could help you, but I have three other people that I think could really be beneficial.

00:29:31.640 All of a sudden I become attractive. I'm not doing it as a game. Like I'm like, if it genuinely,

00:29:38.160 I can't help you, I'll say that. And I've had customers come back all, but begging for me to

00:29:43.640 help them in some way, or to pick up a new line or a new product because they want to work with me

00:29:48.100 because they know I'm going to tell them the truth. And I will tell them the truth. It's a long game,

00:29:52.300 but it's much more effective. One last thing I would say is always pre-qualify your, your sales,

00:30:00.240 the people that you, your potential prospects always pre-qualify them. So what I was getting very

00:30:05.280 frustrated with in the financial planning practice was my closing ratio because I'd have anybody and

00:30:10.160 everybody come in and I'd sit down with them for an hour of my day and waste your time, waste hours

00:30:16.300 upon hours, like 30 hours a week of just wasted effort, trying to convince people that they should

00:30:22.700 buy my goods and services. And the reason you're listening to this podcast right now is because of

00:30:27.520 this strategy I used, I, I scripted out. I wrote out, um, my, my initial sales script, my first

00:30:36.380 appointment, I listed out, I bought a, uh, like an $80 blue Yeti microphone. And I went to staples or

00:30:44.120 office max or something. And I got blank CDs. I went and got some professional pictures taken.

00:30:49.580 And then I had, I in Photoshop, I put it on like those CD covers where you would have to print it on

00:30:54.540 the CD covers and then put them on the thing, just put on the CD. Yeah. And just like stick it on

00:30:58.360 there. And I would hand those out. And I started handing out hundreds and hundreds of them. And

00:31:02.880 then I would have people come in and they brought the CD with them. They're like, Hey, I want to work

00:31:07.480 with you. And it took me zero. Well, it took me what? 10 hours initially. And that qualified the

00:31:13.960 lead for you. Yeah. And the people who weren't, didn't want to work with me, they didn't come in

00:31:18.280 because why would they, they already qualified or disqualified themselves. So my closing ratio

00:31:23.760 skyrocketed when I did that. So many different things. I love sales, but so many different

00:31:28.580 things. I was going to say, Sam, we could probably talk forever. I mean, I, one, one strategy I had

00:31:33.800 when I owned my own business is it was, I coined it as impressions. So my focus was I had my book of

00:31:41.780 clients or my potential leads. And my objective was to leave a beneficial impression on a scheduled

00:31:49.080 basis. Right. So once a month, how can I help serve them in some way where it was like some

00:31:55.660 information that might be beneficial based upon the platforms that they were using or whatever.

00:31:59.640 And I really made sure that I was leaving impressions because what looks really negative is

00:32:06.400 like six months later out of nowhere. Hey, Ryan, how's things going, man? How can we help you?

00:32:10.920 It's like, Oh dude. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You're just trying to get a sell because business is light

00:32:16.460 right now. Right. Right. You're not, you're not. Everybody sees right through. Yeah. What was last

00:32:20.420 month? Right. So, all right. So you mentioned a book. So what was the one book? Let's leave Sam

00:32:25.260 with some resources. The sales, sales, selling is either sales chronic. I think it's the selling

00:32:29.580 chronicles. I think is what it's called chronicles. I would suggest the challenger sell and story brand

00:32:36.480 is probably good. Yeah. Probably my two favorite sales books. Anything else for Mr. Sam here?

00:32:44.360 No, I mean, the only other thing I would say is I, I'd try to get pretty granular with my numbers.

00:32:49.620 I tracked my numbers ruthlessly. So I knew that I, and I, I can't exactly remember turned into

00:32:57.700 ops and so many converted to, okay. So I would make, I, and I would just, I had a little book that I used

00:33:04.240 and I would write down. So if I knew if I had, and these numbers might be a little off. I'm just

00:33:08.100 trying to recall that if I made 10 calls on average, I'd get ahold of six of the six, I got a

00:33:14.900 hold of, I would set three appointments. And of the three I'd sell, I get one or two sales.

00:33:20.480 Like that's just, those were my numbers. So if I wanted 200 sales, then I needed to,

00:33:26.060 you know, do a thousand calls. Like it just became a numbers game. But then I started to look at the

00:33:33.080 numbers and I'm like, okay, how do I go from 10 calls to, instead of reaching six, reach seven?

00:33:37.800 Well, why in the world would I call it two o'clock in the afternoon on Tuesday? Like nobody's going

00:33:41.520 to answer their phone. So I'm like, okay, well on two, at two o'clock on Tuesday is when I'm going

00:33:46.520 to be doing my reporting and bookkeeping and all this stuff. But I'm going to make calls at about

00:33:50.440 five 30, six o'clock. That's when people were driving home. If you do it at seven, they're already

00:33:54.840 at home and they're eating dinner. You see, like you got a noon to one was a decent time because

00:33:59.380 they're at lunch. You might catch them then, but you have to be smart with this stuff.

00:34:02.520 I would even look at, um, like P I would call people and leave a message and they wouldn't

00:34:08.460 call back even clients. And I'm like, why are clients not calling? So I started to people

00:34:13.100 going so weird. It makes me so mad. I'm like, just say you're not interested or I don't know

00:34:18.180 something. Yeah. Go ahead. So I would experiment with the language. Cause it's the language.

00:34:22.120 That's all it's the language. So here's what I would do. If you were a client of mine, Kip,

00:34:25.020 I'd say, Hey Kip, it's Ryan. Hey, everything's okay. But can you give me a call back when you get a chance?

00:34:30.540 Boom. Callbacks went through the roof and I wasn't lying, you know, but I changed the,

00:34:38.560 everything's fine. But can you try to have a scripted message on the call? And then it's

00:34:43.640 like, ah, no, I'm out. So I played, I played with all of that and I enjoy that stuff.

00:34:48.720 Yeah. Sam, we did you a solid. Better take that and double your revenue this year.

00:34:57.740 We want commissions. Yeah. We want commissions off the top. I don't want commission. I just

00:35:02.000 want to know that you're killing it. Well, you're not getting any. So good luck compensation.

00:35:06.520 All right. Aaron and his adventures. Sometimes I find myself short-tempered with the family.

00:35:12.480 I've heard you speak to dealing with anger issues in the past. How did you go about addressing this?

00:35:17.500 And what are some resources I could possibly go to?

00:35:22.160 Okay. So the, so I used to have a really bad attitude and sometimes I still do. I get short-tempered

00:35:27.740 and I get mad. Um, but a big, I realized that a big part of my temper issues came from my own

00:35:36.480 belief in my inadequacies. It was a confidence issue. Explain when you're confident in your

00:35:44.820 abilities. You don't care about bull crap as much as you do when you're not confident because

00:35:52.380 you're seeking validation. It just doesn't affect you. Not even that. Like you just,

00:35:57.740 things brush off you easier when you're confident. Because you know, it's going to work itself out.

00:36:03.280 A great example is the website. The website was down for like two weeks.

00:36:07.500 I didn't lose my cool. I didn't blow a gasket. I had a call with our web, our web guy. Like

00:36:12.540 I was calm and collected the whole time. I was actually a little surprised, honestly.

00:36:17.220 With yourself? Yeah. With myself, with my own performance. Yeah. And, and I was like,

00:36:22.820 why was that? Because I just, I know it's going to get taken care of.

00:36:26.220 And then we're doing other things in the meantime to work around it. Same thing with the book. I got

00:36:31.420 a call from my publisher on the first book that I'm not going to actually receive royalties on my

00:36:38.760 book, my printed sales for 12 months. It's a whole story behind that. I'm not going to get into that

00:36:44.160 right now. I could have blown a lid and I'm still, I'm still angry about it, but it's fine. Like

00:36:51.200 it's fine. It's going to work out. And I know it's going to work out because it always works out.

00:36:56.300 And even if it doesn't work out, I've done the work that's put me in the position where

00:37:01.680 that's not going to break me. That's not going to impact. I mean, that income. Yeah. We want that

00:37:07.560 income. Of course it's my earned income. It's what I've earned. Other people got paid on my work.

00:37:13.180 I didn't, you know? So yeah, that's frustrating, but it's okay. Like it's going to work itself out.

00:37:20.420 So with your answer being, Hey, you know what? Number one contributor to this is confidence.

00:37:25.500 Then what, from your perspective, what, what's dry, what was that change for you to drive confidence?

00:37:31.680 confidence. So there's, I call it the three C's and it's just a cycle. It starts with courage and it

00:37:38.960 moves to, there's actually four courage, consistency, competency, confidence.

00:37:48.620 Got it. That's the cycle to build confidence. That's the cycle. So when you wake up in the

00:37:53.100 morning, you know, you want to get up on time, you know, or you want to make that, make that call

00:37:59.620 to a prospect, but you're a little nervous, you know, you should, or you're like, I want to go to

00:38:05.400 the gym, but like people will judge me and I feel uncomfortable. You know, that's what you should be

00:38:09.580 doing. And it doesn't take confidence to do that. It takes courage to do it. When I was 50 pounds

00:38:14.940 heavier than I am right now, for me to walk into a CrossFit gym for the first time was downright

00:38:20.420 embarrassing. I was so ashamed and so embarrassed of myself. And I've seen a picture of that first day.

00:38:27.040 I'm like, Oh my gosh, horrendous, horrible. And I was, I was embarrassed. I thought everybody was

00:38:33.480 going to judge me and maybe they were probably not, but maybe I thought that, you know, it was

00:38:38.880 going to be too hard that I couldn't do it. All that, all it required was some courage on my part

00:38:44.260 and everybody can muster that courage up wherever you are. You can muster that courage up. So you have

00:38:49.520 the courage to do it the first time. Then you have to be consistent. Like with jujitsu, I see it all the

00:38:54.740 time. You're going to be courageous, man. You're going to go in there and you're going to get

00:38:57.000 your butt kicked. You're going to get hurt. Like people are, you said it last week, people are

00:39:01.740 trying to hurt you. That is true, right? Like that's the goal. That's the goal of, I'm going to

00:39:07.760 try to hurt you to the point where you give up. Yeah. Let me sign up for a class where people try

00:39:12.980 to hurt me until I give up. Awesome. Let's go. It takes courage. And then you know what? People get

00:39:19.660 beat up and it's hard and it's uncomfortable and you're sore and it doesn't feel good. And then

00:39:27.000 you stop coming. It's like, you have to have the courage to go again. You have to go. And then once

00:39:33.540 you keep going. So I've had this like pack and shoulder thing I'm dealing with right now.

00:39:37.180 I know, I know that if I stop going to jujitsu, it's going to be infinitely harder, whether it's

00:39:45.300 in two weeks or two or three months to go back in. And, and I've seen it. You've seen it more than

00:39:50.520 me. What happens is you have a guy who gets injured and he stopped coming for two months.

00:39:56.340 And he, let's say he was a blue belt. He, and he got injured. He stopped coming for two months.

00:40:01.200 That two months turns into two years, three years, five years, five years down the road,

00:40:05.420 he comes back in and all the white and blue belts he was training with are Brown belts now.

00:40:11.560 And he's like, Oh shit. Well, they're better than me. Right. Because they kept coming. So even though

00:40:17.520 I have this injury I'm dealing with, I still go to class. I go to every class. Yeah. I, I roll light

00:40:24.680 sometimes. Sometimes I don't even roll. I just sit there and I watch and I stretch because I know if I

00:40:30.280 don't go, I I'll stop going. Yeah. So courage, consistency. Okay. Now that's going to build up

00:40:39.240 competency. So yesterday when I went and trained, I went and trained with three or four other guys.

00:40:44.240 We did some Nogi stuff. We did, um, an hour and a half straight training. So we rolled for five minutes

00:40:51.900 and we just shifted every five minutes between the four of us. It was insane. We were going to go 10.

00:40:57.400 And Pete was like, let's go for 20. I'm like, okay. So we went for 20, but you know what? I got

00:41:05.340 done. Actually, no, we went like 16 or 17. Cause he got a call and he ended up having to leave pretty

00:41:09.860 quickly. So we didn't get to 20, but we got 16 or 17 rounds in. Um, and when I was done, I was like,

00:41:16.860 I called my wife. I'm like, Hey, how many doing? She's her and the kids are traveling. And,

00:41:20.740 and she said, Oh, what have you been doing? I said, Oh, I just got done with jujitsu. She's like,

00:41:24.560 how do you feel? I'm like, man, I feel actually pretty good.

00:41:27.400 You know, I, I held my own. I learned some new things. I got some instruction. I put in

00:41:31.820 the effort, break, break, break a sweat. Um, I was able to get a few little minor submissions in

00:41:37.480 there. Like, I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm becoming more competent in it. And then that fosters

00:41:43.600 courage or excuse me, confidence. Yeah. And now like when I said, yeah, I feel pretty good. You know,

00:41:48.580 your shoulders are back, your chest is high and you're like, yeah, I feel pretty good. And then that

00:41:53.080 confidence breeds even more courage. Now you're like, Oh, I get the cycle. So if I

00:41:57.200 go back and be even more courageous, maybe I do a competition or something. It just gets

00:42:03.000 bigger and bigger and bigger. It's I love, I love our conversations. And the reason why

00:42:09.160 is it obviously it's enlightening and there's so many different ways I'd see things, right?

00:42:14.440 So if I were going to answer this question by myself, I'd say it's because you're out of integrity.

00:42:18.200 And I would've stopped there that you're not doing what you know you should be doing. And so then it

00:42:23.960 kind of like rubs off, right? Like you come home and you're like, you don't feel good about your day.

00:42:28.400 Why? Cause you didn't get after it. Cause you sucked ass because you constantly didn't accomplish

00:42:33.860 what you wanted to get done. And thus you don't feel good about yourself. You don't have confidence.

00:42:38.720 I know what to stop there. You know what I mean? But I really, really love that idea of like,

00:42:43.680 no, actually that, that courage, AKA, I would say, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's kind of

00:42:50.400 being an integrity, right? Having the courage to do what you know, you should be doing.

00:42:54.180 Absolutely. But I like the idea that, um, that we start getting some competency out of it. Right.

00:43:01.980 And that it's a cycle that you constantly have to work at because as you know, and right, you,

00:43:06.700 you alluded to in jujitsu, you can complete that cycle, have some confidence out of your jujitsu.

00:43:12.160 And then if you don't keep that cycle going, you know, it's unwinding. Yeah. Right. And then,

00:43:19.140 and then it gets all undone. Yeah. Good. Yeah, man. The only other thing. So I think we went deep

00:43:24.880 into that. There is one surface level thing. I think you should be aware of because it has been

00:43:28.660 for me is another reason I would lose my temper and still do at times is in addition to what we

00:43:35.680 already said that I'm trying to do too much in too short of a window. Yeah. And you don't have the,

00:43:44.420 the cushions and the gaps that you're giving yourself. I call them margins, but it's the

00:43:48.060 same. Yeah. Right. So if I come, if I get done with this podcast and I got to wrap up exactly at

00:43:54.100 noon because my next meetings at noon, then that's going to create some, some anxiety in me.

00:44:00.380 Yeah. And that anxiety, if it builds up enough or something goes slightly wrong, then I get like,

00:44:05.900 if one of us are late, then I'm like, Oh, now we only have 45. It's, you got to create buffers and

00:44:10.960 margins in your day. So my next meetings aren't until for this, they aren't until 1230 or later.

00:44:16.620 Cause sometimes we go over or that can take that 30 minutes. I can respond to a few emails.

00:44:21.680 So the buffers between tasks and also between roles. So if you come home and the first thing

00:44:31.300 that happens is your kids are like bouncing all over you and you know, your wife's telling you to

00:44:35.820 do whatever, like we'll walk the dog and, or you have to cook dinner. That's hard to do. It's like,

00:44:41.220 there's not enough buffer time in there. So when I would leave my financial planning practice,

00:44:46.300 uh, I would drive home and I would listen to like Sean Hannity and I'd get all fired up and pissed

00:44:52.140 off. And then I'd get home and then the kids are bouncing on my leg. I didn't get anything done at

00:44:57.080 work. Sean Hannity pissed me off about everything. And my wife's trying to like, tell me to do stuff

00:45:02.160 around the house. And I'm like, just everybody shut up. You're multitasking, not fully present.

00:45:07.640 Right. So instead what I started to do is I'm like, all right, I have about a 25, 30 minute drive home.

00:45:13.300 So I'm not going to listen to anything. So I turned off the radio. I turned off the podcast,

00:45:18.400 turned off the CD, everything, nothing. And I use that 30 minutes to help me transition into dad

00:45:24.840 and husband mode. Hey, when I get home, my kids are going to want to swim. Okay. Well, that's cool.

00:45:30.320 I got to spend a little time with the wife, but we can swim. The dogs are going to be running all over

00:45:34.800 the house. Cool. Maybe they need to go for a walk. Maybe we can go outside or go to the park across the

00:45:39.580 street together. Um, at dinner, here's the kind of conversations I want to have in that little

00:45:44.380 margin helped me transition into being a more present and engaged father and husband.

00:45:51.960 That's solid. We're, we're doing you guys solids today because the other thing that,

00:45:55.840 that has crossed my mind too, around this is, I mean, the margin and the presence,

00:45:59.700 and then the other kind of, we've, we've kind of beat around the bush. We've already kind of

00:46:04.360 addressed the other one, which is really expectation and, and being aware of what's in

00:46:08.620 your realm of control, right? As an example, old Ryan would have gotten pissed off about the website.

00:46:14.460 You don't think that's going to be projected on your family and how you walk around of sure.

00:46:19.480 So what's the solution there? Managing your expectations and realizing like, okay,

00:46:23.840 sites down. Can I change that right now? Is there some, what's in my realm of control? I I've delegated.

00:46:30.360 I'm going to trust the process. That's not going to affect me as much because we're working on it.

00:46:34.360 You know, just maybe another, another angle around the short temperedness.

00:46:39.780 Well, and productivity, being productive, doing the right thing, that's going to compound

00:46:44.780 and things are going to get back. Like your life is going to get better. Your marriage is going to

00:46:50.000 get better. If you wake up on time and go to bed on time. I know that sounds like a leap and it is

00:46:55.180 quite a leap, but it's the natural press, uh, trans, uh, the, the progression of things, right?

00:47:01.840 But your marriage is going to get worse. If you hit the snooze button all the time, like,

00:47:07.040 again, seems like quite a leap, but I can assure you that's, what's going to happen when small

00:47:12.300 battles every single day, stack them up, compound them over time. You'll win. Got it.

00:47:17.620 Ted Fisher. There seems to be a void of strong men in the church, probably due to culture,

00:47:24.200 having more influence than one's faith. Number one, do you see this and do you agree? And number

00:47:29.920 two, if so, how does the church respond? It seems that if men were living out of the strength of the

00:47:35.320 gospel, there would be more conviction and purpose to push back and fight against evil.

00:47:39.940 Oh, I think, I think church, the gospel, um, whatever gospel I would, I would say, maybe not

00:47:48.680 whatever, but certainly Christian doctrine has been overly feminized. Like women have, women have

00:47:57.340 got their hands on it. I'm not, I'm trying not to say that in a negative way, but they've just

00:48:03.420 feminized everything. Be good, be humble, be kind, be empathetic, be caring and all that's right. Like

00:48:11.120 we should be those things, but also be bold and be brave and be courageous and stand up for right

00:48:18.160 and against wrong and fight and make yourself capable. Where's that conversation? Is that,

00:48:27.040 but the only people that can have that conversation are the men. Like I'm, I'm just not going to listen

00:48:33.400 this is going to sound misogynistic. I'm just not going to listen to a woman about being strong

00:48:38.880 and bold and courageous and a fighter and assertive. She's just, it's just not going to land

00:48:44.960 the way that I can look at a man who is those things exhibiting those behaviors. And I'm like,

00:48:51.360 yeah, I want to be like that guy. That's why the order of man podcast resonates so well with so many

00:48:57.600 people because we actually stand by our convictions and we share what's on our mind and we stand up for

00:49:03.020 righteous principles in compelling, bold, courageous ways. That's masculine behavior.

00:49:09.220 That's manly behavior. So when we say, how should the church respond? It's not the, it is the church's

00:49:17.280 responsibility, but just saying the church puts it on somebody else. Yeah. What's the church? It's you,

00:49:23.620 you, you, you. So what you need to do is you need to step up and put together a men's organization

00:49:32.520 within your church. And it's not going to be centered around sitting around holding hands

00:49:39.000 and, and reading the gospel or talking about how you can, you know, serve people. That stuff comes

00:49:44.040 into play. I'm not saying that. And, and, you know, singing Kumbaya together. Yeah. Okay. What,

00:49:49.460 what it, what it comes down to is, Hey guys, we're going camping this weekend and you're bringing your

00:49:54.060 boys. Hey guys, we're all going to go try jujitsu at Kip's gym. He invited us. And we, as a church,

00:50:00.540 the men of the church are going to go do that. We're going to pray before we're going to have a

00:50:04.880 spiritual lesson. We're going to go kick each other's butts. We're going to try to tie it back

00:50:09.540 into spirituality. And then we're going to, you know, shake hands and we're going to do it again next

00:50:14.980 week. And then we're going to go to the airsoft range. And then we're going to go help, uh, you

00:50:20.740 know, um, Mrs. Johnson who just got out of surgery, whose husband just died. We're going to go help

00:50:26.560 plant her, her garden for her. Like, so you can do all those other things, but you do it as men

00:50:32.320 exclusively and you do manly things. You shoot, you fight, you compete, you train, you do physical

00:50:40.020 demanding stuff inside of the parameters of the gospel and how you can serve other people in a

00:50:46.740 righteous way. It's you. And I think we, I think we need to harden the conversation. I don't know

00:50:53.880 if it's definitely, that's not the right term, but strengthen the conversation too. Right? Like I

00:50:59.300 cannot stand when I'm part of a men's like gospel conversation and we're being, we're being

00:51:09.100 hypothetical and we're like too soft in the conversation. And really what needs to be said

00:51:15.560 is you need to honor your commitments. That's what this looks like. You're out of integrity,

00:51:20.960 right? Like a more bold approach to gospel living and conversation and not so soft. I don't even know

00:51:31.940 the right way to explain it, but most of the time I'm so annoyed during some of those conversations

00:51:39.260 because we're beating around the bush and we're not saying the thing that needs to be said because

00:51:45.520 it might offend someone in the room. Yeah. And if, if it can't be said there, then where can it be said?

00:51:53.400 Well, I think about, since we're talking primarily, I think about Christian gospel. Think about the 12

00:51:59.980 disciples. Okay. These are fishermen. Like these are rugged individualists, like hardened weather

00:52:09.080 beaten weather tested men. Like it wouldn't have been easy to be a fisherman in, in, you know,

00:52:17.120 Jerusalem 2000 years ago. Yeah. Okay. But they were, and they were exposed to the elements and they were

00:52:24.040 working together. Then, then they started walking from town to town and probably some of the most

00:52:32.140 unsanitary conditions, the harshest conditions you can imagine. Limited water, people that just despise

00:52:39.920 them would, would, would verbally and physically assault them for, for sharing this. Don't, don't you

00:52:47.160 think those 12 men stood together and held each other accountable? No, get up. We're doing it.

00:52:52.420 Like, let's go. We got to go. Of course they did. Like, Hey, you messed up. Like you got to fix

00:52:58.620 that. Here's how you're going to fix it. Here's how I'm going to help you. Like, those are hardened

00:53:02.840 men. We think about like these 12, like saintly people. No, no, there's no way. There's no way.

00:53:13.720 You weren't. I can't imagine like looking at their hands and they're, they're like how strong they must

00:53:18.480 have been or they're casting nets and pulling them in and pulling sails, lifting and opening sails,

00:53:23.740 rowing there, what they must've smelled like, you know, because they're fit again, fish just on them

00:53:30.280 all day. Like these are hardened men and we just don't have that in society. So we have to manufacture

00:53:36.680 it. Right. It's the whole, the whole concept of the gym is so funny to me.

00:53:42.060 It is funny. It really is. If you think about it, you have to go, you have to go to a gym,

00:53:48.740 official work. Yeah. Right. You have to schedule a time to do it. And then there's companies that I

00:53:55.280 respect, like Sornix is one of them. They make these beautifully handcrafted USA made perfectly

00:54:02.680 balanced weights that all of them are just the same weight and just the right ratio.

00:54:08.180 So, and then you do it in a cert. It's like, that's funny. It's not wrong. I, you know, I work

00:54:15.020 out too, but it's just funny that we have to fabricate this because life is so easy that we

00:54:19.760 don't have any hardship throughout the day. It's such a weird thing. Let me throw some weight around

00:54:25.280 to, because I don't work really hard and I sit out of death. So let me like artificially create

00:54:32.420 that so I can be more manly. Yeah. Yeah. It's super awkward. So anyways, I think we,

00:54:38.700 I think we hit on that is there is no, the, what should the church do about it? What should

00:54:43.220 you do about it? Own it. Yeah. I love that Christian. One of the guys left the comment

00:54:47.760 that was related to Ted's question. He said, he mentioned Brett McKay, art of manliness. He wrote

00:54:53.520 a book called a muscular Christianity. He was curious. Have you read that book? And do you have

00:54:58.260 any opinions about it? It's from Brett McKay. That's what he says. What is it?

00:55:03.300 Muscular Christianity. I haven't, I haven't heard of it. So I've read most of Brett's books. I have

00:55:08.320 not read that book. So I'll probably buy it because Brett was an early, early inspiration for me as I

00:55:13.920 started order a man. And I really think highly of him. I respect him. I respect the content he puts

00:55:19.300 out there. We've had, we haven't talked for a while, but we used to talk quite often message,

00:55:24.380 email, that sort of thing. He's been on the podcast a couple of times.

00:55:26.780 Um, so I'll have to check it out. I've not seen that book. Yeah. I'm actually quite curious about

00:55:32.040 it actually, to be frank. So, all right, Blake, uh, featherly. My father became sober eight years

00:55:38.860 ago from alcohol. He has since found religion. He is now garnering the attitude of superiority,

00:55:45.620 especially in his marriage and taking the notion that my step-mom should submit a little far. I don't

00:55:52.840 understand what he means by that, but maybe just submit is sufficient. He has never been

00:55:56.740 a man to handle his, his stuff. Never really would have called him a man in reference to the

00:56:02.060 standards you discuss. How does one navigate that? I saw this question. It's a good question.

00:56:08.340 As I saw it, I was thinking about, um, recovering nice guys. Like if you guys, a lot of you understand

00:56:14.320 the nice guy syndrome and, uh, you know, you're overly nice. You, you, you get railroaded. You aren't

00:56:21.600 able to share your thoughts and ideas. You get, you know, you just get railroaded, right? Everybody

00:56:25.280 knows. You retaliate and become an asshole. That's what happens. Yeah. That's exactly what

00:56:31.120 happens. I'm glad you said that. Cause I'm trying not to swear. So I was going to say that word,

00:56:35.060 but you said it. So now I don't have to thank you. Well, and I totally messed up because Blake

00:56:38.760 swore in his question and I totally like even changed his swear word into a non-swear word.

00:56:43.980 And then I'm trying. Yeah. I'm trying. You're not trying hard enough. Um, all right. So yeah,

00:56:52.040 that's what happens when you want to correct you. When you want to correct something,

00:56:56.740 you usually become overzealous because you don't know the appropriate line.

00:57:03.980 You're navigating that still. You've been so far over on this other side for so long,

00:57:09.560 you don't even know what's appropriate. And so what ends up happening is instead of being

00:57:13.880 a nice guy, you then become a real jerk to everybody around you. Bulldozer. Yeah. Yep.

00:57:19.560 And then what happens is you get checked and something happens and you get humbled and you're

00:57:23.560 like, Oh, I got to scale that back. And you start to grab it gradually find where it is.

00:57:30.200 Yeah. And I think that might be what's happening here. Maybe he's even trying to make up for lost

00:57:34.920 time. I would, I would find it very hard to believe. And I'm not saying it's not the case

00:57:39.920 that he's like, wants to be this alpha dominant controlling woman submits to me. Kind of, I'd,

00:57:47.400 I'd have a hard time believing that I think he's trying again. I'm these are all kinds of assumptions.

00:57:53.300 I'm just basing this off on other conversations I've had. I think he's probably trying to figure

00:57:59.620 out how to lead his home. Righteously. I think it's probably what's happening.

00:58:03.540 And he's just gone too far with it because he doesn't know what's appropriate.

00:58:08.240 Well, and he's changing up the game on, on you, Blake. Yeah. Right. Like even listening to your,

00:58:14.760 I mean, not to Pat plays too much judgment. Right. But there's a possibility. Well, he's never been

00:58:20.240 the man that could handle this stuff. I would never consider to him. Whoa. Is he changing the

00:58:25.100 status quo on you? And it's making you feel uncomfortable a little bit. I mean, check yourself

00:58:30.400 too. Right. Like that could easily be the case when people change in our lives. We naturally have a

00:58:36.400 tendency to fight against it because the human nature is we got to pigeonhole everybody into

00:58:41.060 these buckets so we can deal with them. We, we can predict what's going to happen and how they're

00:58:45.660 going to handle things. And so some of that might be you, um, but eight years sober from being an

00:58:52.420 alcoholic founding, finding religion sounds like he's probably on a good path. And to your point,

00:58:58.560 Ryan, maybe he's overzealous in certain areas and he's, and he's not doing the best job trying to

00:59:05.040 find that, that, that, uh, medium ground, but man, it sounds like he's probably going in a good

00:59:11.620 direction though. Yeah. Well, and you got to think too, is to your point about changing the game,

00:59:17.500 how many times in your life have you changed the game and you hope that somebody would have honored

00:59:21.840 or acknowledged that you were trying to improve instead of judging you based on how you used to be.

00:59:26.800 And I'm not saying you have to forgive. There's probably some transgression there in the past

00:59:31.200 and maybe some neglect, maybe, maybe some abuse. I don't know. Uh, and so those things are hard to

00:59:36.420 get over. I'm not dismissing your feelings about that, but to answer your question specifically,

00:59:41.520 now that I feel like maybe we've given you some context or some frameworks to consider

00:59:45.680 is talk with a man, sit down and talk with a man. Be bold. Is this, this is his, his father,

00:59:54.760 correct? Yes. And I don't Blake's, he's an adult. I'm, I'm assuming. Yeah. I'd assume as well.

01:00:02.340 Or, or, or, or a young man maybe is just sit down and say, Hey dad, can I, can I sit, can better yet

01:00:08.120 do this? Don't say, I can, I sit down, say, Hey dad, can I take you to dinner?

01:00:11.360 Can I take you to dinner this Friday? Just you and me. I want to catch up. I want to connect.

01:00:17.240 I have a few things I want to share with you and nothing bad. I just, I want to talk. Yeah. He's

01:00:21.880 going to send you out of that. And when you do share, so let's, let's assume you share this with

01:00:25.860 him. It's not, Hey, you're real roading my step-mom and you're telling her bubble. Hey dad,

01:00:31.700 appreciate where you're at, man. I think you're killing it in these key areas.

01:00:35.080 Sometimes the way you come across may seem as though you are right. It may come across as this,

01:00:44.820 right? Right. Cause you don't know if he is right. That's your interpretation show. So share that it's

01:00:49.840 your interpretation that it comes across that way. Yeah. Agreed. Or, or another, the language I like

01:00:55.720 is, Hey, when you do that, I feel like X, Y, and Z. Yeah. Own the emotion. He can't, he can't,

01:01:05.380 he can't tell you, you don't feel like that. Yeah, totally. And so he might say, well, I'm not trying

01:01:10.180 to make you feel like that. Hey, I know, I know, I know you have good intentions. You've been sober for

01:01:14.500 eight years. You found the gospel. You're trying to improve. You're trying to be, I know I,

01:01:19.080 your intentions are great. I'm just telling you that just, it might be a blind spot. You might not see it,

01:01:24.800 but mom feels this way at times. I feel this way at times. And I, I just want to let you know,

01:01:31.080 because I think there's a better path where you can have the, whatever you, I think you get the

01:01:36.280 point. These are sensitive conversations, but unless you've had a conversation like this,

01:01:41.960 I really don't think there's much room to be too upset about it. I think, yes, you can be upset,

01:01:51.160 but so you haven't, maybe you have, I don't know, but if you haven't expressed it, right?

01:02:01.640 So when I'm upset, you know, Kip, you and I've had conversations where one or other of us is upset

01:02:07.500 about something. And so when, then we talk to each other and it's like, okay, good. And we walk away

01:02:12.560 with, I think a greater level of respect for each other. Yeah. And to be clear, because I think it's

01:02:18.500 fair for you guys listening. Do we want to, I don't want to share, do that? No. Yeah. I don't

01:02:25.780 want to know. I'd rather not. Yeah. So it's not that like, we're like showing up in a different way

01:02:32.880 and we're like, well, it's back to what you're saying. We're, we're having the courage to do

01:02:36.640 something that we know we should be doing. So start there, start there. Um, you know,

01:02:42.860 maybe there's other, maybe there's things that you can, here's another thing is it's kind of like

01:02:49.180 dogs or wild animals, like elephants. There was a, there's a story of a, um, a herd of elephants and

01:02:57.900 all the young bulls were like destroying the area and, and just like causing all sorts of problems

01:03:04.420 within the herd because all of the elders had been either killed or died. And so they introduced

01:03:11.020 the elders back into it and it tempered the young, the young bulls and they started to put them in

01:03:17.580 line. And it's you, I almost wonder about this with your father is, is he being tempered by and

01:03:25.400 shepherded through other men who won't put up with that bullshit? Cause if I come at you, Kip,

01:03:33.080 you're not going to put up with it. If you come at me, I'm not going to put up with it. And so we're

01:03:37.720 tempered because we're surrounded by other strong, bold, capable men. Is he, if he's not,

01:03:45.720 maybe there's some opportunity there. I swore I was not going to swear on this podcast. And I did.

01:03:52.280 All right. Let's take one more. Awesome. Last one. Last one. Yeah. Last one. Austin Carter.

01:03:57.280 How do you stay in a job you don't enjoy anymore without it affecting your mental health until you

01:04:02.740 build up the correct provisions to enable leaving said job. I find it hard to stay in the moment and

01:04:08.260 not be miserable wanting to run, but I feel trapped in a life I've created because of my own financial

01:04:13.340 lack of responsibility. I look, I commend you for acknowledging that and wanting to find a new job

01:04:20.060 and wanting to move on and improve and get better. I would just say, suck it up, but it sounds like

01:04:26.020 you've already been doing that. So what I would say is that you don't have to like the job

01:04:30.480 to try to become good at something or multiple things within that job. And that might make it

01:04:35.860 more fulfilling for you. So if you're, um, I don't, I don't know if you're a, uh, a janitor at a,

01:04:46.200 at a high school, let's say, and you feel underappreciated and you're cleaning up messes all the time.

01:04:50.680 The kids are punks. What if instead of that, you still did your duties, but you, you know,

01:04:58.080 slipped a card to a school teacher every once in a while about how nice it is to clean up after

01:05:03.340 her room, because she's always so orderly and clean or, or you, you saw a kid that you've, uh,

01:05:12.000 seen him do some things, maybe stood up for somebody or, or, you know, it does something

01:05:16.560 that's noticeable and you go up to that and you just want to say, Hey, you know, I've been working

01:05:20.060 here for a long time. And I just wanted to know you're one of the best kids I've seen because of

01:05:24.780 the way that you stood up for that kid in the hall, in the classroom the other day.

01:05:28.120 And I saw that. I just, I wanted to tell you, that's pretty cool. And you started doing things

01:05:32.600 like that, man, that would make that work so much more fulfilling and rewarding. That's an example,

01:05:38.180 but I think you get the point, find something within the job that you can get either so exceptionally

01:05:45.380 good at or maximize. Um, in our church, we have the concept of maximize your calling, right? What

01:05:55.400 does that mean? It means that you don't just do the baseline, you go above and beyond and you get

01:06:00.320 better and you improve. And you think about all the different ways that you can add new things and

01:06:04.560 new dynamics to the, to the calling that you have within the church. Same thing here. You, you can be

01:06:11.000 miserable. You can hate it. You can not find fulfillment in it or because you're going to be

01:06:15.540 there. You're there. So you're going to be there. Find a way to be so good at that one thing or that

01:06:22.200 handful of things that makes it more exciting and more fulfilling for you. And I think what you'll

01:06:27.860 actually find is you'll put yourself in a better position even faster by doing that. Cause it's not

01:06:34.620 just about finances. It's also about your attitude. Yeah. The finances are important,

01:06:40.480 but the finances, the factor of attitude is a variable in the equation of finances.

01:06:47.100 The better attitude you have, the more likely it is that you're going to come to work on time.

01:06:52.540 You might even stay a little bit late. Show up more power. Show up. Your work will actually improve

01:06:57.660 because of your attitude. Bosses will start to notice. Clients will start to notice. Therefore,

01:07:02.560 you'll get a promotion. Therefore you'll pick up new clients. You'll start getting referrals.

01:07:05.820 And all of a sudden you're making 20, 30, 40% more. And you maybe even created a job that wasn't

01:07:12.580 there before over a period of three to five years. And so now you're doing that. Or maybe one of your

01:07:17.780 clients is like, Hey, you've been doing pretty awesome over the past three to five years. We just

01:07:24.080 lost our manager over at our store, over at our thing. And I would like you to try to interview for

01:07:31.220 that position and you create opportunities because of your attitude, which will actually fix your

01:07:36.580 finances. Yeah. And I think there's two sides to this. One is, is what you're saying. And then

01:07:42.040 I can't help, but feel like, you know, he's saying, Hey, I feel trapped in this. Well,

01:07:46.880 when do we feel trapped when we don't have a game plan? Right. And so if let's say you want to get

01:07:54.700 in another industry, I'm saying it, do what Ryan's saying, like be fully present and fully

01:07:59.720 engaged, kill it and find meaning and purpose in what you're doing, but also have your game plan

01:08:04.380 figured out like, okay. And this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to kill it. This is what I need.

01:08:08.960 These are the ducks that I need to have in a row for me to then to lead this organization and

01:08:13.480 increase my skillset otherwise or whatever. Right. And so get your game plan figured out and you won't

01:08:18.480 feel trapped. Why? Because you're working towards something. You're, you know, where you're going and

01:08:23.060 what you need to do to get there. You feel trapped because you're throwing your hands up

01:08:27.220 and not owning it and going, there's nothing I can do. That's what, that's when we feel trapped

01:08:32.440 is, is when we're not owning it and not planning how we're going to progress and move on.

01:08:39.160 Yeah. Yeah. Two multifaceted approaches that you should use in harmony. And you're going to find

01:08:45.780 yourself in a better position immediately. Actually, you're going to feel better today by doing that.

01:08:51.500 And then tomorrow that much better, that much better, that much better. And so on. Yeah. It

01:08:55.740 might be miserable work. So make it not miserable. That's on you. Totally. Totally. I like it, man.

01:09:02.500 All right. I'm pulling up my calendar here so I can get our dates for legacy here. So you got them.

01:09:08.320 Yep. Yep. I got them up. So father and son event, September 22nd through the 25th. Yep.

01:09:15.940 Um, to learn more order of man.com slash legacy. Uh, that's going to fill up quick. So if you're

01:09:22.260 kind of on the fence, be courageous and just execute, um, and join us for that event.

01:09:29.360 That's a good point. There might be guys who would really like to do that, but they're like,

01:09:34.000 I don't know if my son will want to do it. And I don't know. And then I got to be away from work.

01:09:37.740 Like all of those are valid things that you should consider, but also maybe they're just excuses and

01:09:44.500 you should just do it because I know with a hundred percent certainty that you're going to

01:09:49.180 walk away with a deeper connection with your son. He's going to walk away with tools that are going

01:09:53.220 to help him as he gets to be a young man and a man out on his own. And you're going to walk away

01:09:57.320 with tools to be able to help him do just that. And yeah, it's an investment. It's a, it's a,

01:10:02.600 it's a time investment. You got to be away for three or four days. It's a financial investment.

01:10:07.740 And so what, like, that's, what's required if you want to win and you want to help your young man

01:10:12.760 win. Yeah. And I think you made a post on Instagram at Ryan Mickler, um, a few weeks ago around

01:10:19.720 stop. Don't let opportunities pass you by for things to like align. Yeah. So if this is something

01:10:26.860 you want to do, just do it because if you're going to wait for, Oh, well, it's not the right time.

01:10:32.040 And you know what I, I, me personally, I run that story all the time. And I, I get sick in my gut.

01:10:38.980 If I think about the things and the opportunities that probably pass me by because I wasn't ready

01:10:44.440 for them, you know, and we've talked about this from a, from a leadership perspective, right.

01:10:48.860 When opportunity presents the attitude of, you know what, I'll do it and I'll figure it out

01:10:54.320 is more important than the adage of, of even someone being competent and then unwilling because

01:11:00.540 it's not quite right. That attitude of just getting after it is says a lot about you as an

01:11:05.620 individual. So. Yeah, man, I agree. Yeah. Just make it, just make it work. Make it happen. Um,

01:11:12.940 yeah, well said. Okay. That's all I got. Okay. Well guys, appreciate you. Great questions today.

01:11:18.940 Hopefully we gave you some answers. Uh, I know sometimes I kind of ramble on a little bit,

01:11:23.240 but hopefully we gave you guys something to consider. I really like doing these. We have

01:11:26.620 some solid, solid questions. It's always a little bit of a contest to see where the better questions

01:11:31.060 come from Facebook group, Instagram, or iron council. Um, but I got to say, these were some

01:11:36.460 pretty darn good questions today. So I appreciate you guys following along, engaging with us. Make sure

01:11:41.420 you share, leave the rating review, join us at legacy. Oh, that's what I was going to say about the

01:11:45.600 legacy thing. One more thing is when it, when you say, well, you know, it's not the right time.

01:11:50.460 Okay. Well, your kid's eight to 15 years old. If he's 15, he's going to start driving next year

01:11:55.620 and he's already in sports. He's going to start dating. He's going to start thinking about college

01:12:00.100 or his career guys. It ain't getting any, any more convenient. I'm going to tell you that it's

01:12:04.980 not going to be any more convenient next year than it is right now. The earlier you can get your kids

01:12:09.380 on a path is a whole year of headache and whatever else. Yeah. What else? What, how's this? Don't

01:12:17.280 come to legacy. That's fine. But just let society or some other group influence them for the next year.

01:12:23.660 Yeah. What would you choose? You're right. Seriously. Yeah. All right, guys. Appreciate

01:12:29.140 y'all. We'll catch you, uh, on Friday until then go out there, take action and become a man. You

01:12:33.940 are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge

01:12:38.900 of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at

01:12:43.660 order of man.com.

Order of Man - June 08, 2022

Apprehension to Getting Married, Men and "The Church," and Feeling Trapped at Work ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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