Order of Man - ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.000 there are millions of men out there

00:00:01.800 who are so afraid to assert themselves

00:00:04.480 because they're afraid of rejection,

00:00:07.180 they're afraid of failure,

00:00:08.440 they're afraid of looking foolish.

00:00:10.040 And the ironic and cruel thing about it is,

00:00:12.560 everybody already thinks you're a failure

00:00:14.320 when you're acting like a loser.

00:00:16.040 But when you're acting passive as a man,

00:00:19.500 everybody already thinks you're a loser.

00:00:21.660 They want somebody who has courage and balls and audacity

00:00:27.980 but can also be humble.

00:00:30.000 You're a man of action.

00:00:32.400 You live life to the fullest.

00:00:33.820 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:36.780 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time.

00:00:40.240 Every time.

00:00:41.280 You are not easily deterred or defeated.

00:00:43.580 Rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:46.340 This is your life.

00:00:47.440 This is who you are.

00:00:48.920 This is who you will become.

00:00:50.600 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:53.660 you can call yourself a man.

00:00:58.440 Kip, what's up, man?

00:00:59.360 So good to see you.

00:01:00.460 We were talking before we hit record.

00:01:02.900 You've been doing this for, what's that, 2018.

00:01:06.160 So seven-year anniversary next month, is it?

00:01:09.180 Is that what you said?

00:01:09.600 Coming this April.

00:01:10.740 Yeah, coming this April.

00:01:11.800 This April.

00:01:12.240 So a couple of months from now.

00:01:13.760 And it's funny, you said something, and I wanted to wait to respond till we hit record about going back and listening to your first episode and how bad, how cringey it was.

00:01:25.320 I leave my stuff up, even the first episodes, the first YouTube videos, for that reason.

00:01:32.020 It is very cringy.

00:01:33.660 I do not enjoy going back to listen to it.

00:01:36.520 I do not enjoy when people reference old episodes, early episodes.

00:01:42.500 But I do like the fact that over the course of doing this for you for seven years, for me for 10 years, that you get better.

00:01:53.880 You improve.

00:01:54.860 And sometimes it just takes a little bit to find your footing.

00:01:57.660 Most people, I think, assume, especially if they just stumble onto this podcast or anything that they enjoy, that that person is just gifted by the hand of God with whatever they're doing.

00:02:08.480 And while I will admit there are some certain skill sets or capabilities that certain people possess in order to be successful in certain endeavors, it's really just hard work.

00:02:20.040 It's just effort.

00:02:20.980 It's just reps.

00:02:21.960 It's just consistency.

00:02:23.960 It's feedback.

00:02:25.040 It's analyzing yourself, critiquing yourself, and then just trying to get better every single day.

00:02:31.520 So what I would suggest is never discount any level of success a person has had, whether it's in the podcasting space or you see a fit guy at the gym or you see a guy who's knocking it out of the park with his marriage or a great relationship with his kids.

00:02:45.380 That's work.

00:02:46.140 It took work to get to that point.

00:02:48.260 Yeah.

00:02:48.860 And what's the psychology of why we do that?

00:02:51.400 So we can downplay where we're at and go, oh, well, I'm just not as talented as Ryan.

00:02:57.120 But if I get present to the idea that you got to where you are because of reps, then that means that I'm confronted with the idea that I have no excuses.

00:03:07.060 And it's really about am I willing to put in the time?

00:03:09.800 Yeah, I don't know that people do that consciously.

00:03:14.340 Do you think they do?

00:03:15.060 I don't think they do it consciously.

00:03:16.480 No, I think it's subconscious.

00:03:17.000 I think it's just subconscious.

00:03:18.600 They just – and you'll catch yourself in moments of – and I try to anyways.

00:03:22.580 When I see a guy – and I still do it today.

00:03:24.780 When I see a guy and I attribute his success to either luck or an immutable characteristic.

00:03:30.340 If I do one of those two things, I probably don't get it 100 percent, but I try very quickly to say stop.

00:03:38.700 Even if it's true, and I don't think it is, but even if it were, nope, we're not going down that road.

00:03:45.300 That is not a path I'm willing to explore because it does nothing for me because I'm not whatever fill-in-the-blank reason that person is successful.

00:03:55.620 It's just not helpful, so I don't even go down that road.

00:03:58.660 Yeah, totally.

00:03:59.220 So give me the rundown.

00:04:01.020 Winter Strong over the weekend.

00:04:03.520 How did it go?

00:04:04.220 Yeah, it was good, man.

00:04:04.660 Went out to Sorenex Outdoors Winter Strong.

00:04:07.460 This was their seventh one.

00:04:09.140 I've been to five of them.

00:04:11.280 I missed the first one.

00:04:12.520 I missed last year, but I'm telling you what.

00:04:15.400 It is – this is actually what I was going to do for my headline is talk a little bit about this and not get into the specifics of Winter Strong itself.

00:04:22.960 But when I was going through everything I'd been going through over the past couple of years,

00:04:26.520 I really took a hiatus on traveling around, going to different events, being in different places and communities and organizations just because I was so focused on what was going on with me personally.

00:04:37.780 And I missed a lot of that.

00:04:39.620 And it's not always convenient, right?

00:04:41.960 You know, you had to fly and get out to South Carolina from Utah, and I had to take away four or five of my days of things that I could be doing here.

00:04:50.540 So it's not always convenient, but, man, if you weren't finding ways to be around other men that motivate you, that inspire you to be part of a community that you're interested in –

00:05:02.700 with Sorenex specifically, it's strength training and hunting, which are two of my favorite things.

00:05:09.480 So if I'm not taking the time to invest my time, invest money, invest in other people to go out and do these things, I really feel like I'm wasting life.

00:05:19.700 I can make every excuse, and I have every excuse not to go.

00:05:22.960 I'm busy.

00:05:23.600 I've got this and that.

00:05:24.480 I've got the kids.

00:05:25.780 I want to spend time with my girlfriend.

00:05:27.120 I mean there's so much that I could come up with, and all of those stories ran through my head.

00:05:30.780 And yet I decided to go, and I'm so grateful I did because from the minute I got there, you see old friends you haven't seen for a year, and you connect with people who you've never met before,

00:05:40.800 or you go deeper into a conversation with somebody that maybe you've been friends with for years, and they have their own personal struggles that you had no idea of what they were going through.

00:05:50.820 And I actually had that happen.

00:05:52.800 I kind of feel like a bit of a shithead friend, but it was good to connect on some of those things.

00:05:57.920 So, yeah, I mean that's just the power of going to do events, and that leads nicely into the event that we're running.

00:06:05.260 If you are looking for an event to do and be part of, then come out and join us in May.

00:06:10.980 We've got an incredible lineup.

00:06:13.000 We're going to be banding together.

00:06:14.580 We're going to be working together.

00:06:15.800 We're going to be learning from each other.

00:06:17.180 We're going to be pushing on each other physically and mentally and emotionally.

00:06:20.040 And you're going to walk away not only as a better man, a more capable man, somebody who knows what you want to do the rest of 2025, but you're going to have, I'm not going to say 100, but you're going to make two or three connections that could potentially become lifelong friends.

00:06:38.580 And I only say that because that is exactly what happens to me every single time I go to an event.

00:06:44.820 And I might not talk to that person for another six months or another year, but there are people who have become lifelong friends because I invested a few hundred bucks.

00:06:54.220 I took a weekend, and I did something outside of my comfort zone to put myself in proximity to people that I want to be like and be inspired and motivated by.

00:07:03.440 So that's the Men's Forge.

00:07:05.100 Check it out at themensforge.com.

00:07:08.580 Awesome.

00:07:09.460 You know, my headline over the weekend, I watched the Super Bowl yesterday.

00:07:12.920 It was great.

00:07:13.780 It was a good game.

00:07:14.520 I was kind of hoping the Eagles would win.

00:07:17.820 But my takeaway from the game was the head coach of the Eagles during the interview post-game.

00:07:25.340 And he said something to the extent of that greatness can't be, you can't have greatness, individual greatness without the greatness of others from a team perspective.

00:07:36.800 And that just resonated with me.

00:07:39.360 Like, I literally grabbed my phone and I wrote that down.

00:07:42.460 I'm like, how critical it is that who we surround ourselves, and it works in perfectly with your headline, who we surround ourselves with matters.

00:07:51.780 And the greatness that is made possible in each of us is often influenced by who we surround ourselves with and the greatness of people that we interact with, that we choose to band with.

00:08:05.660 And it matters.

00:08:06.820 Always.

00:08:07.480 Right.

00:08:07.760 Not just often.

00:08:08.800 Always influences.

00:08:10.080 Yeah.

00:08:10.540 And so, you know, and that was just kind of my takeaway over the weekend.

00:08:14.000 It's like, man, it matters.

00:08:15.160 It absolutely matters who you're around.

00:08:16.920 And be around great people.

00:08:21.380 Kip, I think everybody knows that, right?

00:08:24.480 We've all heard that.

00:08:25.680 A bunch of people probably have heard that ad nauseum.

00:08:28.660 And I'm not discounting the importance or relevance of it.

00:08:32.420 The question is, what do you do?

00:08:35.120 Like, that's really what we need to explain.

00:08:38.000 Because there are men who are listening to this right now who are surrounded by losers and assholes.

00:08:43.040 Yeah.

00:08:43.320 And maybe they're a loser and an asshole.

00:08:44.780 They probably are if they're surrounded by losers and assholes.

00:08:47.680 So the question is not, should we?

00:08:49.560 We all know that.

00:08:50.320 The question is, how do we?

00:08:52.420 Do you have any thoughts on that?

00:08:54.140 I mean, I think the first part of the step is the awareness and taking inventory.

00:09:00.380 Are you around people that uplift you, that are on a solid path that you want to be on?

00:09:06.140 And I don't know if we all do that.

00:09:08.260 And I think we downplay it a little bit or we add meaning like, well, you know, they're my friends from a long time ago.

00:09:16.200 And we're not suggesting that you have to be cold and hate them and not love them and see them for wherever they are and whatever talents and gifts that they actually have.

00:09:26.960 But I think the inventory of it is the first step.

00:09:30.600 You have to really ask yourself, right?

00:09:32.500 Am I surrounding myself with the right people?

00:09:34.780 And if you're not, you know, and I'll just grab something from your playbook that you always talk about is go where those people are.

00:09:43.000 Go to these events.

00:09:44.580 Go to the gym where people are getting after it.

00:09:46.700 Go to areas that people are centered.

00:09:49.720 I mean, how many times have we had guys ask about dating good women, you know, and our first response is, well, stop going to the bar.

00:09:57.560 And if you're looking for a religious girl, guess where you got to go?

00:10:00.920 To church, right?

00:10:02.360 And if you're not doing that, then that's problem number one.

00:10:05.120 And so maybe even just evaluating where are you?

00:10:08.940 What path are you on regardless of the crowd that you're putting around?

00:10:12.340 And you're never going to be around the right people unless you get on that same path.

00:10:17.620 Yeah.

00:10:18.020 No, I think that's all.

00:10:18.900 I would even take it a step further than just an inventory because sometimes when we hear inventory, you're like, oh, yeah, my friends aren't the best and that's my inventory.

00:10:26.920 It's like, no, that's not what we're talking about here.

00:10:29.360 What I'm saying is let's just take the 10 closest people to you.

00:10:33.200 You know, you've got your wife, hopefully, your kids, maybe some family.

00:10:36.960 And then you've probably got two or three closer friends, maybe their work acquaintances or family members or friends, like you said, from high school.

00:10:47.400 When we say inventory, here's what I mean.

00:10:50.420 Who do I need to carve out of my life or at least put in a box?

00:10:55.280 Because there are people who you need to package up in a little box and that's where they belong.

00:11:00.100 And it's not anything about their worth as human beings and you don't need to spit on them and beat them up and all that kind of stuff like you're talking about.

00:11:06.980 Of course, that's not what we're saying.

00:11:08.640 But you shouldn't be spending time with those people.

00:11:11.500 Now, if your family members want to come over and you guys have a Super Bowl party for the family and all that kind of stuff and that's planned, that's the box.

00:11:18.700 We can contain them in that box.

00:11:20.260 That's fine.

00:11:21.160 But I'm not going to invite you to hang out with me on the weekend.

00:11:25.160 I'm not going to invite you on the conferences and the events that I attend because I don't want you and your attitude and your negativity spilling over into this aspect of my life.

00:11:36.920 So I will put up with you at family events.

00:11:40.380 I will put up with you at work because I'm required to and I want the work environment to be a healthy environment.

00:11:46.220 But that's the box in which you belong and you don't get to leave that box in my world.

00:11:50.280 And I think a lot of guys have a hard time doing that out of a sense of loyalty in some reasons, in some cases, out of a sense of being nice in some cases, and then just out of a sense of ignorance.

00:12:05.140 They don't even know.

00:12:06.220 They're not even aware of how damaging and toxic this person is in their lives.

00:12:10.140 So I would really, when you do this inventory, spend some time thinking about the two to three people who you need to package up and allow to operate inside of that little capacity in your life and no more.

00:12:22.680 And then to your point after that is, okay, where do I go to meet strong, fit individuals?

00:12:28.780 You go to Spartan races.

00:12:29.840 You go to the gym.

00:12:31.180 You go train jujitsu.

00:12:33.020 And when you're there, don't just be the loser on the wall that hangs out and doesn't engage.

00:12:39.280 Like, get your ass in the game.

00:12:42.600 You know, I talk with a lot of guys who are like, oh, go to the gym.

00:12:44.780 Right.

00:12:45.100 But do you talk to anybody?

00:12:47.220 Do you make any effort to connect with another human being?

00:12:51.420 Well, no, I don't know.

00:12:54.500 It's not enough just to go to the thing.

00:12:56.720 You have to put yourself in the game.

00:12:59.420 You know, we're on the heels of the Super Bowl, and I didn't personally watch the Super Bowl.

00:13:03.520 But there's a lot of guys that sit that sideline, and they're going to get a championship ring who, frankly, didn't do much.

00:13:09.860 Get yourself in the game.

00:13:12.260 And if you're not, then don't say you're doing it.

00:13:14.600 Because half-ass might as well be, maybe you're stealing this a little bit from Ron Swanson.

00:13:21.460 You need a whole ass hit.

00:13:23.600 Yeah.

00:13:23.980 Not half-ass two things.

00:13:25.400 Whole-ass one thing.

00:13:26.380 Meaning go all the way in and fully show up and be present.

00:13:30.640 And when you go to events or you go to the gym, ask questions, meet people, introduce yourself.

00:13:36.000 I promise you, nobody's going to think you're weird.

00:13:39.740 Nobody's going to think less of you.

00:13:41.480 And you're going to make the connections that you deserve and you want to have in your life.

00:13:46.400 Absolutely.

00:13:48.340 All right.

00:13:48.840 We got questions from the Foundry, from the Iron Council.

00:13:52.840 To learn more about the Iron Council, you can go to orderofman.com slash ironcouncil.

00:13:57.520 Sean Combs.

00:13:59.000 Hey, actually, Kip, I'm sorry.

00:14:00.420 Before we get to that, can I just answer a question here?

00:14:03.300 This one came over on Instagram and he messaged me, I don't know how long ago, and I told

00:14:09.000 him we'd answer it and I didn't.

00:14:10.280 And then he messaged me back and I didn't answer it.

00:14:12.260 And over the weekend, he's like, how do I get this question answered?

00:14:15.500 So I flagged it.

00:14:16.520 So I wanted to get this answered for him.

00:14:18.240 All right.

00:14:18.520 Let's do it.

00:14:18.840 This is from Jedediah Williams.

00:14:21.460 He says, did you stop asking what it means to be a man to your guests because you created

00:14:26.820 your motto, protect, provide, preside?

00:14:28.640 He's been listening to the podcast for five or six years and noticed I haven't asked that

00:14:31.940 question.

00:14:33.300 And I wanted to just address that real quick.

00:14:35.480 The reason I don't ask that question is because I ask a bunch of other questions that actually

00:14:42.440 answer that question in a more organic, thoughtful, considerate way to my guests.

00:14:46.720 I consider myself a conversationalist.

00:14:50.300 So I don't ever go into a conversation with you, Kip, or friends with predetermined questions

00:14:55.840 I'm going to ask you.

00:14:57.340 There might be some things I want to talk with you about, and I'm thoughtful and aware of what

00:15:02.080 I might want to talk about, discuss in our conversation.

00:15:04.860 But I don't feel like asking the same guest one question over and over again, or what

00:15:10.260 I used to do, ask all my guests the exact same question honors you as a listener.

00:15:15.180 And it certainly doesn't honor the guest and their expertise and knowledge.

00:15:19.100 So I, yes, I did do away with that question years and years ago because I want the answers

00:15:25.660 to that question to be infused throughout the conversation.

00:15:29.340 Yeah.

00:15:30.120 And by the way, I think it's really important.

00:15:33.520 Here's a lesson you can take away from this.

00:15:35.560 As a conversationalist, and we all should be working on being better conversationalists,

00:15:41.440 allow the person to just go, to explore.

00:15:46.120 And if you have a hard time asking questions or even creating small talk, which I used to

00:15:53.300 scoff at, but I actually now think it's important, just go another level deeper.

00:15:58.500 So for example, and this ties into what I was saying earlier about events.

00:16:02.220 If Kip, you and I are at the same event and we happen to be sitting next to each other on

00:16:07.000 the plane over, which actually happened as I was going to SorenX.

00:16:09.560 I might ask, there's an acronym I use, it's FROG is the acronym I use.

00:16:19.360 So friends and family, recreation, occupation, and goals.

00:16:26.140 So let's just take occupation.

00:16:29.380 So Kip, what do you do for work?

00:16:30.820 And then you answer it.

00:16:32.620 A lot of people get stuck.

00:16:33.960 They're like, what do I do now?

00:16:34.780 Just go one level deeper.

00:16:36.240 Oh, that's interesting.

00:16:37.440 How did you get into that line of work?

00:16:39.560 And then if you get stuck after that, you might say, move into another thing.

00:16:44.920 That's really cool that you got into that line of work.

00:16:47.160 Do you have goals that you're working?

00:16:48.820 Like what are some of your goals in the occupation?

00:16:51.440 Is it income-based?

00:16:52.400 Is it client-based?

00:16:53.380 Are you trying to create new initiatives?

00:16:55.680 Just get really, really good at asking questions.

00:16:59.520 So that's why I do that.

00:17:00.560 I wanted to answer that question for Jedediah, but I also wanted to give you guys a little

00:17:03.760 feedback as it comes to talking with people.

00:17:06.140 It's not hard.

00:17:08.060 Just focus on them.

00:17:09.220 And be curious.

00:17:10.560 That's it.

00:17:11.600 Yeah.

00:17:12.380 Yeah.

00:17:12.680 I love it.

00:17:13.600 All right.

00:17:14.000 So Sean Combs' question.

00:17:15.640 Overcoming fears, fears of failure, and asking for things you want relationally and at work.

00:17:22.380 I don't have the greatest relationship with my wife at the time.

00:17:25.320 I'm afraid to move either way.

00:17:27.960 Do I go 100% into the relationship that is in my mind, making me miserable, or do I walk away?

00:17:34.140 The same thing at work.

00:17:35.400 I have no clear path of a future at this company.

00:17:38.100 The owner is looking to get out in a couple years, but has not put in a succession plan.

00:17:43.640 He doesn't seem interested in listening to the guys he has working with him.

00:17:47.740 Do I push to be heard, or I try to get a future plan in place, or do I walk away from the company

00:17:53.740 and all the work that I've put into this company?

00:17:56.280 Any advice would be great.

00:17:58.480 Yeah, Sean, you're operating in this land of false dichotomies.

00:18:04.540 Do I go all in, or do I walk away?

00:18:07.300 Do I create this other plan and walk away from the business, or do I go all in on the business

00:18:12.380 without a plan?

00:18:13.400 Who says those are the only two options available?

00:18:16.160 And by the way, if those were the only two options available, the answer would be 100%

00:18:22.600 all the way in, if those were the only two options available.

00:18:27.220 Because I'd be willing to bet that even though you're not happy in your relationship, it's

00:18:33.180 probably in part, I'm not going to say 100%, but in part to your inability to invest 100%

00:18:40.040 in the relationship.

00:18:40.740 Maybe the reason, and I don't know this, but I want you to chew on this a little bit.

00:18:47.100 Maybe the reason your boss isn't presenting a succession plan to you is because he's not

00:18:51.860 real confident in handing his business to you.

00:18:56.320 Now, that might be insulting, and you might think I'm being insulting, and I can certainly

00:19:01.120 see how it would come across that way, but I'm only telling you that because nobody else

00:19:05.180 is probably willing to tell you that.

00:19:06.480 But you're the common denominator in your relational and professional problems.

00:19:12.600 Who else is it?

00:19:13.660 Your wife doesn't have anything to do with your business, and your business and your boss

00:19:16.800 doesn't have anything to do with your wife.

00:19:18.820 So who is the only person that is constant in those two scenarios?

00:19:23.840 It's you, Sean.

00:19:26.220 That's not to say your wife doesn't have things to work on, or your boss doesn't have things

00:19:29.700 to work on.

00:19:30.180 They certainly do, but you can't do anything about that.

00:19:32.560 So what I would suggest to you is go 100% into your relationship, and you don't need

00:19:43.300 a time.

00:19:43.680 I'm not telling you to do it for six months.

00:19:45.340 No, we're not.

00:19:46.220 We can talk about that down the road, but for now, I just want you to go 100% into your

00:19:50.920 relationship.

00:19:51.880 We can talk about what that might look like, and I want you to go 100% into the business.

00:19:55.660 The ironic thing about going 100% into something is it actually creates a lot of opportunities

00:20:01.060 over here.

00:20:02.900 So if you go 100% into your business, you're going to start noticing opportunities, career

00:20:08.820 and professional opportunities that weren't present before, because people are going to

00:20:13.000 start to see that you're the kind of person they would like to have on their team.

00:20:18.720 So going all in covers both of those bases.

00:20:21.580 Also, going all in on yourself, diet, nutrition, strength, sleep, spirituality, learning, knowledge,

00:20:30.700 banding with friends, developing wholesome and good recreational hobbies and activities.

00:20:36.740 All of that stuff will improve every aspect of your life.

00:20:40.580 I'll address one more thing.

00:20:41.820 I want to hear what you have to say, Kip, on this, but I will address one other thing.

00:20:44.860 With your marriage, you guys took vows.

00:20:51.100 You said that you will be with her forever.

00:20:54.180 That's what you said, I assume.

00:20:57.060 And because you said that, then you have a moral responsibility to honor that.

00:21:04.080 And I'm not saying it will work out indefinitely.

00:21:06.900 My marriage didn't work out.

00:21:08.440 But you have a moral obligation, because you said you would, to go all in.

00:21:14.900 And regarding asking for what you want, what's the worst that can happen if you ask for what you want?

00:21:22.700 Your marriage falls apart?

00:21:23.760 Sounds like it already is.

00:21:27.480 So all in means you start asking for what you want in a respectful, considerate, compassionate way.

00:21:34.760 Hey, hon, I'm not happy.

00:21:38.440 I haven't been happy for a long time.

00:21:42.420 And by the way, I don't actually think you're happy either, are you?

00:21:46.380 And let her express herself.

00:21:48.400 But I also made a commitment to you.

00:21:50.760 And I also love you.

00:21:51.660 I know that you probably will love her, even though you're considering maybe having some of these conversations.

00:21:55.820 But you do love her, I'm sure.

00:21:57.500 Otherwise, you would have ended it a long time ago.

00:22:00.380 And you tell her, hey, I want to work on these things.

00:22:04.820 I want to be more communicative with each other.

00:22:07.460 I want to be more physically intimate.

00:22:10.400 I want to feel happy to walk in the door.

00:22:12.560 I want you to be happy that I walk in the door.

00:22:15.480 And you start asking for what that might look like.

00:22:18.560 And I promise she's been thinking about it too.

00:22:21.200 So I think all in for you means asking for what you want.

00:22:25.160 And she can ultimately say, well, I'm not willing to do that.

00:22:29.660 Okay.

00:22:31.020 She has a choice too.

00:22:33.140 But I don't think she'll say that.

00:22:35.340 I would be surprised if she didn't say, oh my God, finally.

00:22:40.380 You're acting like a man.

00:22:41.700 Finally, you're being assertive.

00:22:45.420 Finally, you're being the man that I married and wanted to commit to.

00:22:48.960 Finally.

00:22:50.700 And then you guys can start working through your problems.

00:22:52.880 I just want to point out that when I talk about a victim mindset, there are red flags to know if you have a victim mindset.

00:23:05.320 And the first one is waiting and hoping.

00:23:07.740 Of course, you're disempowered.

00:23:11.820 Why?

00:23:12.520 Because according to you and your statement here, your relationship is in the hands of who?

00:23:17.660 You?

00:23:19.960 No, it's in the hands of my wife.

00:23:21.860 Okay, got it.

00:23:22.680 Job sucks.

00:23:23.420 Why?

00:23:24.600 Who did you give that power over to?

00:23:26.600 Oh, my boss.

00:23:28.940 Yeah.

00:23:29.220 So you're just sitting back waiting to be acted upon.

00:23:31.660 Any human with that mindset will feel highly disempowered.

00:23:40.600 And so move to taking action.

00:23:43.320 Deal in reality.

00:23:44.440 Awesome.

00:23:45.420 Boss doesn't have a plan.

00:23:46.920 He doesn't seem interested in listening to people.

00:23:48.780 Got it.

00:23:49.180 Okay, so what am I going to do about it?

00:23:53.200 Move to action.

00:23:55.700 Like literally do something about it.

00:23:58.060 And by the way, like Ryan said, there's no guarantees.

00:24:02.420 Because it involves people, right?

00:24:04.040 It involves your spouse.

00:24:05.080 It involves your boss.

00:24:06.040 But are you doing everything within your realm of control?

00:24:10.560 And if you're not 100%, then the answer is no, you're not.

00:24:14.080 Which also means you're not learning from these two circumstances.

00:24:17.980 You have two great, amazing opportunities placed before you to learn and grow as a man.

00:24:24.500 And it is in the space of dealing with both of these hardships.

00:24:29.540 That's how you learn and grow.

00:24:31.660 And if you moved on to just another relationship, if you just moved on to another job, you just wasted this hardship and you didn't learn from them.

00:24:44.360 So the probable future is what?

00:24:47.660 Ride the fence of another relationship.

00:24:50.040 Ride the fence hoping that a boss will see my value.

00:24:53.600 Like learn from these circumstances.

00:24:55.560 Otherwise, they're wasted.

00:25:00.520 You know what's so crazy about this, Kip?

00:25:02.920 Is I know there is – literally there are millions of men out there who are so afraid to assert themselves because they're afraid of rejection.

00:25:14.240 They're afraid of failure.

00:25:15.500 They're afraid of looking foolish.

00:25:17.280 And the ironic and cruel thing about it is everybody already thinks you're a failure when you're acting like a loser.

00:25:23.140 And I'm not saying Sean is, by the way.

00:25:24.940 Yeah.

00:25:25.080 But when you're acting passive as a man, everybody already thinks you're a loser.

00:25:32.440 Everybody already walks all over you.

00:25:34.980 Everybody already thinks you're a failure.

00:25:36.440 If you can learn to assert yourself – I'll give an example and I don't need to get into the specifics necessarily, but my girlfriend and I had a disagreement on a comment that I had made on the podcast a couple of weeks ago regarding women in law enforcement.

00:25:54.840 And she explained her position and I explained mine, and she did not like my position, but it's my position.

00:26:03.620 And I – like I'm – what do you want me to do?

00:26:06.160 Like say, oh, you're right?

00:26:07.280 I don't believe you're – like it's my opinion.

00:26:09.860 This is what I believe.

00:26:11.180 I've thought about it.

00:26:12.740 I'm willing to explore and entertain other ideas.

00:26:16.000 But for now, this is where I stand based on what I've seen.

00:26:19.480 And we weren't mad at each other.

00:26:21.300 We were just kind of bantering back and forth.

00:26:22.920 And she said one thing at the end, and I think this is what a lot of guys need to understand.

00:26:26.960 She said, I do appreciate, though, your willingness to say it even though it's really, really unpopular with a lot of people.

00:26:35.280 Yeah.

00:26:36.080 At least you're not flipping.

00:26:37.860 Right.

00:26:38.680 That's what people want from you.

00:26:40.800 They want somebody who has courage and balls and audacity but can also be humble and willing to explore other options and avenues and ideas.

00:26:52.920 But at the end of the day, your wife isn't interested in you being a passive little child.

00:26:58.020 She's interested in you saying, hey, I'm not happy.

00:27:01.520 So – because she already knows that.

00:27:03.220 Like you're not hiding anything.

00:27:05.720 She already knows.

00:27:06.720 She's just wondering when you're going to be man enough to bring it up.

00:27:09.360 Totally.

00:27:10.640 Totally.

00:27:13.960 Yeah.

00:27:14.540 I mean this is good, Sean.

00:27:16.920 Like I have to say this.

00:27:18.180 Like you might – this might be coming across really negative.

00:27:21.080 Hopefully this like fires you up and doesn't – you know, you don't see this as an attack.

00:27:25.900 But this is – and thanks for asking this question too.

00:27:29.380 For sure.

00:27:29.900 Because this is good.

00:27:32.800 This is absolutely good.

00:27:34.120 And it goes back to what you said with your headline, Ryan.

00:27:37.760 A lot of people see success and they go, oh, well, they're lucky or whatever.

00:27:43.240 Guess what, Sean?

00:27:44.040 Most people in a great relationship, they've dealt with this.

00:27:48.900 Most people with a great boss and success have dealt with this.

00:27:52.940 I've dealt with this.

00:27:53.940 Both of these.

00:27:54.660 And you think that you don't have to deal with it to have a great relationship and a great career?

00:28:03.120 You're dreaming, man.

00:28:04.320 You've got to figure out both of these things if you want success in those two areas.

00:28:08.480 Because all of us had to.

00:28:10.720 So get in line.

00:28:12.540 These are the reps.

00:28:14.160 These are the reps.

00:28:15.980 And for guys who – and Sean, by the way, this is not only good hopefully for you,

00:28:19.960 but it's good for everybody else who's in the same situation.

00:28:22.300 Trust me, there are millions of men.

00:28:23.520 And I talk to a lot of them every week.

00:28:26.060 And they're hearing this and they're putting themselves hopefully in your shoes

00:28:29.660 and understanding what my answer to them might be.

00:28:33.180 But, yeah, it's empowering when you finally say what's on your mind.

00:28:39.500 But it is risky.

00:28:40.780 That's why it's scary because there's risk.

00:28:43.140 You risk alienating the relationship.

00:28:45.080 The relationship's already alienated, bud.

00:28:47.000 Like, it is.

00:28:48.900 So let's go.

00:28:52.140 Yeah.

00:28:52.400 You got this.

00:28:52.920 Love it, man.

00:28:54.380 All right.

00:28:55.140 Chris Henningsen.

00:28:56.940 When talking to friends and men you think would benefit from the Iron Council,

00:29:00.800 how would you go about telling them about it, trying to convince them to check it out?

00:29:04.860 I've struggled with feeling like I'm being too vague or even though I feel like I'm fairly active in the Iron Council.

00:29:11.360 It's just sometimes it feels hard to explain.

00:29:14.440 Yeah.

00:29:14.660 Well, I think there was one word that I might get hung up on a little bit that I think maybe you are too.

00:29:19.500 You use the word convince.

00:29:20.500 You use the word convince.

00:29:21.480 Yeah.

00:29:21.880 That was the word I focused in on.

00:29:23.960 You don't need to convince anybody.

00:29:27.040 I didn't convince you to join.

00:29:28.740 Yeah.

00:29:29.740 And the more somebody needs to be convinced to join us, the less of a fit the Iron Council is going to be for us.

00:29:36.580 And this just doesn't go for the Iron Council.

00:29:38.660 But I learned this in sales when I was doing financial planning.

00:29:42.560 If you're a financial advisor, listen to this, guys.

00:29:45.160 If you're a financial advisor, I was going to say if you're struggling.

00:29:49.040 I don't care if you're struggling or not.

00:29:50.420 Go buy the book The Selling Chronicles.

00:29:53.300 The Selling Chronicles.

00:29:54.780 It is an incredible book.

00:29:57.080 It's a fictional story that weaves in lessons into the fictional story.

00:30:00.980 But that transformed my financial planning practice and the way that I approached people.

00:30:06.160 You don't need to convince them.

00:30:07.660 You don't need to sell them.

00:30:09.000 You don't need to tell them all the benefits.

00:30:10.920 All you need to do is ask questions.

00:30:13.440 That's it.

00:30:14.380 So, Kip, if you're my friend, I'd love to have you in the Iron Council.

00:30:17.620 You might say this.

00:30:18.680 And this is how it gets brought up a lot.

00:30:21.220 Hey, man, like, I've noticed you've lost a bunch of weight.

00:30:23.680 Like, what are you doing?

00:30:26.260 That's a good moment to bring something up.

00:30:27.860 Oh, well, you know, I'm working out and eating right.

00:30:29.560 But really, for me, it's the accountability piece.

00:30:32.540 Like, the eating right, the working out.

00:30:34.700 We all know to do that.

00:30:35.560 It's the accountability stuff.

00:30:36.960 Or do you have any sort of accountability in your life?

00:30:41.140 And they might say, oh, yeah, I work on this group.

00:30:42.960 Say, that's awesome.

00:30:43.600 Like, tell me about it.

00:30:44.720 And that's it.

00:30:45.560 Like, that's fine.

00:30:47.260 Or they might say, no, I don't have any.

00:30:49.980 But I've been looking for something.

00:30:51.380 Oh, really?

00:30:52.060 Yeah, like, I found this awesome group I belong to.

00:30:54.440 And I work with 10 other guys.

00:30:55.760 And we talk every week and every day.

00:30:57.740 And we joke and laugh.

00:30:59.340 But we also hold each other to account.

00:31:02.200 And it's been really good.

00:31:03.800 Actually, you should check it out.

00:31:05.500 You might actually really enjoy it.

00:31:08.280 And you might say, no, I'm not really interested.

00:31:10.480 And I say, no problem.

00:31:11.360 That's cool.

00:31:11.860 I just thought I'd bring it up.

00:31:12.780 If you ever have any questions, let me know.

00:31:14.080 That's it.

00:31:16.420 And then he's going to keep seeing your progress.

00:31:18.280 And he's going to see you run that marathon or, you know, win the Spartan race or whatever it is.

00:31:23.980 And he's going to be like, dude, that thing must really be working for him.

00:31:27.460 Just let your actions speak for you.

00:31:30.260 But if, on the other hand, he says, oh, yeah, I am kind of interested.

00:31:33.800 Say, well, why don't you just, they have an open enrollment next month.

00:31:38.240 Why don't you just come to the preview call?

00:31:40.000 I'll join you on the preview call.

00:31:41.660 You and I can, we'll do it together.

00:31:43.280 You can come over.

00:31:44.880 We'll jump on the preview call.

00:31:46.140 And then we'll have dinner or something after, something like that.

00:31:48.780 It's easy.

00:31:49.620 Just lower the expectations.

00:31:52.000 It's not a big deal.

00:31:52.840 We don't need your friends here.

00:31:55.280 We want your friends here.

00:31:57.060 And the more you try to push and convince and sell, the more, what happens when something chases you?

00:32:03.040 You run away.

00:32:05.200 Like I do.

00:32:06.240 If something scary runs away that I'm, I don't know what that thing is.

00:32:09.380 That's scary.

00:32:10.240 I run away.

00:32:12.540 Right?

00:32:12.980 Like my son and I went hunting in Africa last year.

00:32:15.900 If a leopard jumped out of a tree, I'm running.

00:32:19.560 Like I'm not sticking around.

00:32:22.920 But that's my advice.

00:32:25.700 Just be casual.

00:32:27.320 Be comfortable.

00:32:28.120 Be a friend.

00:32:29.040 He's going to see your results.

00:32:30.440 Let that speak for itself.

00:32:31.560 And then just casually invite and do it together.

00:32:33.960 Hey, we're open.

00:32:34.780 Come join that preview call.

00:32:36.160 Or maybe you talked with a guy last month and didn't really go anywhere.

00:32:39.420 Maybe you just send him a text and say, hey, the guys are having a meeting tonight.

00:32:42.960 It's an open preview call.

00:32:44.380 It's tonight at six.

00:32:45.740 Why don't you just, why don't you join it with me?

00:32:47.920 That's an easy way to do it.

00:32:48.960 I found.

00:32:49.940 And it just reiterates the power of choice.

00:32:53.700 Right?

00:32:54.420 Sovereignty.

00:32:54.860 We want people here for choice out of, out of agency and freedom, not through being convinced

00:33:00.940 and all that yicky, because then they're like, well, I really didn't want to, but Ryan

00:33:05.120 like kind of like pressure being into it.

00:33:07.040 And then they're, they don't even have the right mindset to be there.

00:33:09.440 Like just present opportunity, address questions, let them choose.

00:33:15.240 There's huge power in that.

00:33:17.900 By the way, you should also just to make this a little bit broader of a question.

00:33:22.300 We should all be doing this if we're in sales.

00:33:25.860 Totally.

00:33:26.660 If you're hard pushing on sales, you know what that reeks of?

00:33:30.020 Desperation.

00:33:30.980 If I go to the car lot and I'm in the market for a new truck and the guy comes out and he

00:33:36.220 just bludgeons me with all the facts and data and his obnoxious, clever, witty, stupid

00:33:42.480 phrase.

00:33:42.960 Like I'm, I'm like this guy, like I, he needs to sell this truck.

00:33:46.880 This is probably the only truck he's going to sell this month.

00:33:49.460 Yeah.

00:33:50.580 That's what that guy reeks of to me.

00:33:52.620 Totally.

00:33:52.980 If on the other hand, he comes out and he's like, Hey man, are you in the market for something?

00:33:56.880 And I say, yeah, I'm looking for a truck.

00:33:58.340 And he's like, cool.

00:33:59.220 Like, do you own a truck now?

00:34:01.100 Like, is this your first truck?

00:34:03.160 Give me a little bit of details.

00:34:04.400 I can point you in the right direction.

00:34:05.620 And you're like, ah, yeah, I'm just looking to upgrade my GMC.

00:34:09.800 Cool.

00:34:10.200 Well, here's what we have.

00:34:11.700 Here's what's available.

00:34:13.300 Do you have any questions?

00:34:14.600 Do you want to take one for a ride?

00:34:16.800 Well, yeah.

00:34:17.520 Like what, what I'm, what I'm saying is just like loosen up a little bit.

00:34:21.860 It's fine.

00:34:22.540 Everybody knows what they want.

00:34:23.960 They can make their decisions.

00:34:25.080 And if they don't, you know, just say, if you came to the car lot and I did it this

00:34:30.440 way, Kip, and I'm like, Hey, that's cool.

00:34:32.700 Like it's not, you're not in the market.

00:34:34.400 Do you mind if I grab your number or your email address?

00:34:37.240 And if something flags that might fit in what you're looking for, I can shoot you a text

00:34:41.160 or an email.

00:34:41.680 Would you be cool with that?

00:34:43.380 You're like, yeah, sure.

00:34:43.960 I get your text a month later.

00:34:47.260 I'm like, Hey, I don't know if you ended up buying anything or not, but we just had this

00:34:50.260 2025 four-door GMC Duramax come in and white, and it kind of matches everything you said

00:34:57.680 you wanted.

00:34:58.180 I'm not sure if you're interested, but it's here.

00:34:59.660 If you're interested, if you did that 200 times a month, like you're going to knock it

00:35:06.960 out of the park.

00:35:07.740 Well, it's easy.

00:35:08.980 And that's the sales rep that when a buddy says, Hey man, I'm looking for a truck.

00:35:13.240 I'm like, yeah, you don't reach out to this guy.

00:35:15.540 He's super cool to work with, right?

00:35:17.840 Some guys, the pushy sales rep may get the sell, but guess what?

00:35:21.860 He's not getting any referral, right?

00:35:24.700 Because I have buyer's remorse the whole time.

00:35:27.400 I'm like, damn, that I regret this already.

00:35:29.540 I shouldn't have purchased this.

00:35:31.160 If anything, I might even speak ill of that company and that rep.

00:35:37.040 So even if they, if the pushing gets the sell, they're definitely not getting referrals.

00:35:41.680 Not with that strategy.

00:35:43.240 There's also follow-up too.

00:35:46.260 I love this sales stuff, but there's follow-up too.

00:35:48.420 So if you do buy the truck a month later, I'm going to reach out and be like, Hey man,

00:35:52.420 like, how's the truck treating you?

00:35:53.980 Have you taken it off road?

00:35:55.260 Have you guys done any trips?

00:35:56.380 And you're like, Oh, actually we're going, we're doing a little bit of a road trip, uh, to, you know, the Northeast and we're taking the truck cause we're going to go, you know, skiing up there or whatever.

00:36:07.400 And we're doing that next month.

00:36:08.960 Guess what's going on my calendar.

00:36:10.800 If you're doing that March 15th on March 20th, I'm texting you and I'm saying, Hey man, how's the trip?

00:36:16.880 How's the truck?

00:36:17.980 You guys, what are you doing?

00:36:19.240 Are you loving it?

00:36:19.860 You enjoying it?

00:36:20.560 This is a, it's a game.

00:36:22.640 It's a fun game.

00:36:23.600 If you do it this way and it just creates longevity.

00:36:26.400 This is how I built my financial planning practice to where it was, which springboarded me into what we're doing here.

00:36:32.180 Um, play the long game in sales for sure.

00:36:35.060 Yeah.

00:36:36.000 All right.

00:36:36.740 Joe Gunter in thinking about putting in the best work and getting the most out of battle team experience.

00:36:42.900 I had this thought and question the other day.

00:36:45.200 When I think of some of the best teams that I've been part of, they are teams that I shared some kind of battle teams where we stood shoulder to shoulder, physically fought the odds together through those battles.

00:36:57.060 We forged bonds and trust, loyalty, and brotherhood.

00:36:59.940 We don't have that on these teams in a way that physical battles forge men.

00:37:04.340 The question would be, how do we create that dynamic?

00:37:08.120 Yeah.

00:37:08.680 I mean, that's proven to be true.

00:37:10.100 When men work together towards a common purpose or against a common enemy, they forge deeper bonds.

00:37:17.760 This is why men who are in horrific situations, whether it's natural disasters and emergencies, active shooter situations, military combat, even sports, build and forge lifelong friendships through the struggle of those circumstances.

00:37:36.540 You can actually do that.

00:37:37.960 But you don't, it's not that you can't do that with a battle team.

00:37:41.580 You guys can go decide to do a Spartan race together.

00:37:45.700 You guys can decide that, hey, you know, maybe one of your guys is really struggling.

00:37:50.480 Maybe he's going through a divorce right now.

00:37:53.180 All of you can decide, hey, we're going to spend a couple hundred dollars and 48 hours and we're all going to go to him.

00:37:59.260 You can do that.

00:38:01.280 And what if you did?

00:38:02.980 Like, what if you showed up for one of your guys, y'all spent a couple hundred dollars.

00:38:07.140 Y'all took a Saturday and a Sunday and you just showed up, you know, like, hey, man, we're here.

00:38:13.140 Like, maybe we're here to help you move.

00:38:15.740 Maybe we're just going to go hit the gym together or go, you know, hike the mountain or go camping or whatever.

00:38:22.220 But we're all going to show up.

00:38:23.020 You could do that.

00:38:23.560 What would be keeping you from doing that?

00:38:27.540 Some people might say, well, money.

00:38:29.080 Well, okay, then the other guy who can afford 400 can cover the guy who can't pay any.

00:38:33.120 Like, help each other out.

00:38:34.080 This is a team.

00:38:35.680 Yeah.

00:38:36.020 And then, of course, inside of, outside of that work, inside of the brotherhood that you're doing on a regular basis, what I would say to you is very similar to what we shared with Sean.

00:38:47.340 Sean, we were pretty, I wouldn't say we were hard on Sean, but we were pretty forthright with Sean earlier.

00:38:55.180 It was Sean, right?

00:38:56.200 Our first question.

00:38:57.540 Yeah.

00:38:57.800 We were pretty forthright.

00:39:00.740 And that's how men communicate.

00:39:04.460 I could have danced around the answer and you could have given a softball answer and you could have, you know, rubbed his tummy and made him feel better about his life choices.

00:39:11.540 But that's not what we did.

00:39:12.580 But we were forthright with him because we respect him as a man.

00:39:17.640 If I didn't treat him that way, it's actually an insult.

00:39:21.160 It's insulting.

00:39:22.620 Essentially, what I'm saying is you can't handle the truth of what I need to share with you.

00:39:26.740 So I'm going to dumb it down or soften it up so you, Mr. Incapable Sean, can deal with it more effectively.

00:39:33.220 Well, I don't believe that.

00:39:34.260 I think Sean's fully capable of hearing hard things and doing difficult things.

00:39:38.640 And if there's one thing that I see sometimes in the Iron Council that I don't actually like, it's men taking it too easy on each other.

00:39:47.860 The Eagles, you know, they won the Super Bowl.

00:39:50.980 Again, I didn't watch it, but I watched some highlights this morning.

00:39:53.820 Do you think those guys are soft on each other when their right guard misses a block?

00:39:59.060 Fuck, fuck no.

00:40:01.760 No way.

00:40:02.620 You missed that block.

00:40:04.120 You failed your assignment.

00:40:05.840 You got the guy sacked.

00:40:07.460 You forced the interception.

00:40:09.300 Do better or you're out.

00:40:12.360 And that's how men communicate with each other.

00:40:15.640 So I would like to see, again, not harshness.

00:40:18.780 I would like to see more truth, more honesty, more confrontation.

00:40:28.160 When a guy shows up and he didn't do his battle plan, you don't say, oh, it's okay.

00:40:32.400 I know you were busy.

00:40:33.600 No, it's not okay.

00:40:35.600 You said you wanted to do it and you also said you would do it as part of this team and you're not doing it.

00:40:40.700 So tell me why.

00:40:41.920 And more importantly than that, tell me how it's going to change.

00:40:44.320 If all of you guys build a culture on your team around that concept, I promise not only are you going to see more results, but you're going to forge deeper bonds because that's how men communicate.

00:40:56.420 Women do it differently.

00:40:57.540 This is how men do it.

00:40:59.360 And part of this, Jeremy, comes down to – not Jeremy.

00:41:03.100 I'm sorry.

00:41:03.700 I jumped ahead on my questions here.

00:41:05.880 Part of this, Joe, is like what you're willing to enlist people in what you're about.

00:41:09.840 If you're being superficial on the battle team like, oh, yeah, I'm doing my things, but you're dealing with a battle at home and you're not sharing that with your team, then of course you're not battling it together because you're not letting them in.

00:41:25.820 So there's a level of kind of authenticity that you need to bring to the table, openness that you need to bring to the table so those guys can battle with you.

00:41:35.400 There's many ways that you guys could do this.

00:41:37.440 I remember years ago, it was kind of interesting.

00:41:40.260 I don't know what book it was, but probably Goggins' first book, and we were covering it in the Iron Council.

00:41:46.760 And for whatever reason, everyone's riled up.

00:41:49.940 You know how Goggins gets everyone all kind of like – we all want to run.

00:41:54.320 And it was a Saturday.

00:41:55.860 I never felt that way.

00:41:58.220 But it was Tony Erzy, and Tony's like in the spirit of this month, I'm going for distance this Saturday.

00:42:07.440 And I'm like, you know what, I'll join you.

00:42:09.480 And another guy's like, oh, I'll join you.

00:42:11.440 And before you know it, our entire battle team in different locations geographically dispersed across the U.S., we're all running on treadmills or outside seeing how far we're going to go.

00:42:24.920 We didn't say we're going to run five.

00:42:26.580 We just said we're going to run distance.

00:42:29.900 Before you know it, I ended up running 16 miles, right?

00:42:32.580 And then someone else is like, dude, I'm going for 20, right?

00:42:35.620 We battled.

00:42:38.480 So there's ways.

00:42:40.260 You just might have to get a little creative as well.

00:42:43.420 Yeah.

00:42:44.020 I like that story.

00:42:45.460 I had a funny story at the gym this morning.

00:42:47.940 Me and my training partner were working out together, and we were doing incline dumbbell bench press.

00:42:53.720 And I was doing the weights, and he jumped on the weights, and he did it.

00:42:59.060 And it went really fast.

00:43:00.180 He's like, oh, I need to go up.

00:43:01.160 And he went to the weight rack, and the dumbbells that he was trying to go up to, they weren't there.

00:43:06.400 And he spent, I'm not kidding, he spent like 90 seconds or two minutes like looking for them.

00:43:12.400 Like, bro, they're not there.

00:43:13.400 Somebody else is using them.

00:43:14.660 Just grab the one up.

00:43:16.480 Just grab the weights up.

00:43:17.880 He's like, I don't know if I can do those.

00:43:19.160 I'm like, well, you don't have a choice.

00:43:20.840 Grab the ones up.

00:43:21.720 So he grabbed them, and he did them.

00:43:25.160 And he got done.

00:43:26.220 And he got his reps in, and everything looked fine.

00:43:28.820 The form was great.

00:43:29.780 He got his reps in.

00:43:31.260 And I told him, I said, all right, that tells me two things.

00:43:34.760 And he's like, what?

00:43:35.740 I'm like, first, you've been lying this whole time to yourself.

00:43:40.260 Like, you could do more than you have been.

00:43:43.560 And second, that's your new normal.

00:43:46.440 And he's like, shit.

00:43:47.300 But this is why you have men in your corner.

00:43:51.420 And he does the same.

00:43:52.280 He would do the same for me.

00:43:53.640 He would push me the same way.

00:43:55.760 This is the power of having men hold you to task.

00:43:59.620 Like, I didn't do it as a jerk.

00:44:01.080 He didn't take it that way.

00:44:02.280 We were lighthearted and having fun about it.

00:44:04.760 But we pushed each other.

00:44:06.040 And if you do that enough with other men, you can't help but build and forge those deep bonds.

00:44:12.520 Yeah, that's great.

00:44:13.700 All right, Jeremy Kofi, what is the most common leadership weakness you see in men today and how they can overcome it?

00:44:24.600 I would give two, because there's two ends of the spectrum, I think, on this.

00:44:29.380 I actually really want to hear what you have to say, so I'm not going to be long-winded on this.

00:44:33.660 The first one for me is the lack of responsibility men are willing to take on.

00:44:42.640 Because leadership requires responsibility.

00:44:46.040 And so there's a whole cohort of men who will shirk leadership because they don't want the burden of the responsibility.

00:44:54.400 And that, to me, is unfortunate.

00:44:56.160 So that's one.

00:44:56.900 And then on the opposite end of the spectrum, there's the egomaniac who wants all the accolades, all the praise, all the notoriety, do everything himself, be acknowledged, be recognized, be appreciated, and isn't willing to bring other people in, vacate roles to allow other people to fill in and step up.

00:45:17.660 Look for new ways to do things because he has it all figured out.

00:45:22.280 So the two leadership problems I see are opposite ends of the same spectrum.

00:45:28.060 No responsibility and wanting all of the praise, notoriety, and accolades that come with being a leadership position.

00:45:35.480 Yeah, and that ladder is just going to operate in the space of what I just say, unrighteous dominion, right?

00:45:43.440 There are going to be positions of authority, and they're going to be miserable.

00:45:48.900 Miserable themselves and miserable to work with.

00:45:51.380 Miserable to work with.

00:45:52.720 They're just going to ruin relationships.

00:45:55.440 I'm going to grab a – I'm reading this from a post that I made, I don't know, back in November.

00:46:02.720 If a leader can't recognize their flaws, they have the most dangerous flaw of them all, a lack of self-awareness.

00:46:11.620 And I think that is the most critical issue primarily just because then there's no growth.

00:46:18.100 There's no self-evaluation.

00:46:19.540 There's no growth.

00:46:20.300 There's no humility.

00:46:21.560 So everything is going to be what?

00:46:23.580 Someone else's problem.

00:46:24.660 They're going to persecute.

00:46:25.820 They're going to go command and control.

00:46:27.740 It makes for the worst leaders in my opinion if they're not self-aware.

00:46:35.120 Simple as that.

00:46:36.500 Did he ask a second part of what to do about it?

00:46:39.800 Yeah, how do they overcome it?

00:46:42.200 Yeah.

00:46:43.200 So I'll give my answer for both.

00:46:46.040 The guy who doesn't take on responsibility, it's – I can't tell somebody to take on responsibility.

00:46:52.180 Some people are just never going to take it on.

00:46:53.980 It's the guy who wants to but is afraid.

00:46:57.280 That's the guy who can.

00:46:58.760 Yeah.

00:46:59.380 And this is my mantra.

00:47:00.900 And I don't really like vocalize this, but I promise you this thought goes through my head.

00:47:06.520 I am a man, and this is my responsibility.

00:47:10.340 That's what goes through my head.

00:47:16.400 When I don't want to do something or there's nobody stepping up or things aren't getting done, I'm a man.

00:47:23.260 It is my responsibility to do this.

00:47:27.400 That's all I need.

00:47:28.340 That is literally all that I need.

00:47:29.880 Because it doesn't say anything about whether I'm afraid or concerned or scared.

00:47:34.160 Of course I am.

00:47:34.820 But that has nothing to do with whether or not I should do it.

00:47:39.040 Yeah.

00:47:39.100 The mantra that I've adopted on the other side of the spectrum, because I tend to be egotistical.

00:47:45.680 I like to hear myself talk, obviously.

00:47:48.080 I think I have really good answers to all the problems that ever existed throughout humankind.

00:47:52.460 But I've adopted this, and it's been helpful, not only for other people, it's been really helpful for me, is it's my job to build leaders.

00:48:05.440 It is not my job to perpetually lead others.

00:48:10.180 Yeah.

00:48:10.380 So with my kids, if I have to lead them into their adulthood, I've failed as a leader.

00:48:17.200 Yeah.

00:48:17.720 If at work, in the Iron Council, for example, if I have to lead every battle team because there's nobody else who could lead effectively, I let all of you guys down.

00:48:31.360 My job is to create opportunities that other people can build themselves into.

00:48:39.600 That's, to me, what it means to be a leader.

00:48:41.640 And that's why we have 55, or whatever it is, battle teams and battle team leader mentors.

00:48:47.900 And I do relatively little because we have so many qualified, capable men.

00:48:54.400 And at the risk of sounding arrogant, that only happens if I get my ass out of the way and let people get into those spots and those positions.

00:49:05.000 Absolutely.

00:49:05.840 Absolutely.

00:49:06.520 And you've done an amazing job from that perspective.

00:49:08.980 You know, when I think about overcoming self-awareness, I think at the root of it is ego.

00:49:16.180 And there's something that I would like to call out, and I'll explain this briefly.

00:49:21.520 I mentioned this earlier.

00:49:22.900 There's red flags of when we're in a victim mindset, right?

00:49:26.560 They're often in this space of I'm waiting and hoping, I'm allocating blame, I'm making excuses, and I'm not receiving input or feedback.

00:49:35.720 That's what a victim does.

00:49:37.700 And they don't receive input, by the way, is because the problem's not with them, right?

00:49:41.940 It's always somewhere else, right?

00:49:43.920 So there's zero responsibility for that person.

00:49:46.780 Often, we don't think of people in a victim mindset when they're in a position of authority.

00:49:52.480 And the label I would give those people are persecutors.

00:49:55.500 And they persecute, why?

00:49:58.140 Once again, because they're a victim of what?

00:50:00.780 Their subordinates, their employees.

00:50:03.460 Oh, the problem's over there.

00:50:04.880 It's not with me.

00:50:06.280 And so they will blame.

00:50:07.920 They will make excuses.

00:50:09.460 They won't get feedback.

00:50:10.700 And they'll look for opportunities to persecute others to justify their lack of inaction.

00:50:16.520 Both scenarios, victim mindset.

00:50:19.740 A persecutor is really just a victim in a position of authority.

00:50:23.040 And at the root of it, it is your inability to self-reflect and check your ego and realize

00:50:32.440 that you don't have it figured out.

00:50:34.920 And this is why you'll get leaders that won't delegate.

00:50:38.400 Why?

00:50:38.700 Because they're stroking their own ego, right?

00:50:41.640 It's really hard for you.

00:50:43.140 Like, it goes against the natural human nature.

00:50:46.260 If we look at your scenario, Ryan, running the Iron Council, where you have these battle

00:50:50.180 teams, and you relinquish and delegate a lot of authority to them to operate how they will,

00:50:57.860 that means that you're not saying, well, my way's the best way.

00:51:00.560 You're saying, I don't know.

00:51:02.620 You figure out your way.

00:51:04.940 And we're here to support you.

00:51:06.680 That requires an ego check for a team to operate how a team might operate without your direct

00:51:13.360 influence on it all the time.

00:51:14.780 That is checking your ego.

00:51:17.300 So I think that the biggest element and why people get victim, and I was thinking about

00:51:22.200 this over on Sunday, I was nerding out in my mind, at least, around pride, you know,

00:51:26.500 because we've talked about the pride cycle and how that works.

00:51:29.560 And often we associate pride with success, right?

00:51:32.460 I've made it so I become pride, pride, pride, prideful, prideful.

00:51:37.100 But there's an element of people that don't have the success, but there's still an element

00:51:45.940 of pride in them, that they deserve something without the effort, that they're entitled to

00:51:51.940 something, and they can experience that same cycle, all without success.

00:51:57.940 And they're in this space of victimhood where they think they deserve something, they're entitled

00:52:02.920 to something, and they're at the mercy of these other individuals that are pushing them down.

00:52:08.320 It generates the same concept as someone that has a lot of pride.

00:52:13.980 That is interesting, because as you were thinking that, I was wondering about how that would apply

00:52:17.640 in my own life.

00:52:18.260 And I was kind of drawn back to my high school sports days where, you know, if I didn't show

00:52:24.220 up fully, I remember I had a coach come up to me one time and say, you think you're so

00:52:28.300 good that you don't get to be here at practice and go 100 percent?

00:52:31.600 You think you're that good of a player right now that you can just insult everybody else

00:52:36.840 here?

00:52:37.160 I was like, oh, shit.

00:52:39.060 Yeah.

00:52:41.520 You may not.

00:52:42.380 But when you think about it, you may not vocalize that because you're like, wait, no, I don't.

00:52:46.280 But you're operating as if you are.

00:52:49.020 Yeah.

00:52:50.420 You think you're so special that you get to have whatever you want to have without the

00:52:54.780 effort?

00:52:55.140 You think you're that great?

00:52:57.340 You're not.

00:52:58.360 You're just not.

00:52:59.140 Yeah, which is really just what we've been talking a little bit.

00:53:03.080 Yeah, for sure.

00:53:04.380 We've been talking a lot about a little bit about irony and the ironic thing about this

00:53:08.920 idea of leadership and not being overly egotistical.

00:53:12.680 And you said prideful and proud.

00:53:14.840 I think those are two different things.

00:53:16.240 I was.

00:53:16.520 And I think that's why you were having a hard time saying it.

00:53:19.000 It's okay to be proud because that means you're happy with your accomplishments and it's okay

00:53:26.040 to be proud.

00:53:27.140 And probably grateful for it, right?

00:53:29.120 There's an element of gratitude in being proud.

00:53:32.360 Yeah.

00:53:32.800 Right.

00:53:33.840 Prideful, on the other hand, think about the word pride full.

00:53:38.480 You're full of pride that there's absolutely no room for anything else.

00:53:45.120 And that's the distinction.

00:53:47.240 Prideful and proud.

00:53:48.900 We can be, I can be proud of my kids, but if I'm prideful about my role as their father,

00:53:54.820 that might be an issue.

00:53:56.420 Yeah.

00:53:56.960 Right.

00:53:57.380 So.

00:53:57.920 Good distinction.

00:53:59.920 I forgot where I was going with that.

00:54:02.060 So let's move on to the next question.

00:54:03.680 All right.

00:54:04.320 Woody Ward.

00:54:04.500 I was going to say something very, very important.

00:54:07.220 Profound.

00:54:07.340 Very important.

00:54:08.100 Yeah.

00:54:08.380 But forgot what it was.

00:54:09.820 We'll save it for next week.

00:54:11.760 Fair.

00:54:12.680 Okay.

00:54:13.020 Woody Lord.

00:54:13.700 I'd like to get both of your thoughts on saving for your future and spending to enjoy the moment.

00:54:18.600 My wife and I have pretty aggressive savings goals and find ourselves naturally ebbing and

00:54:23.620 flowing between the tight word and splurge lifestyles.

00:54:27.300 What can you guys, what can guys do to help find a middle ground?

00:54:32.420 Well, what I would, I would start with the end in mind, as Stephen Covey might say.

00:54:36.500 So what is the ultimate objective?

00:54:39.140 You know, if the ultimate objective is that you want to buy an island somewhere and, or

00:54:45.980 build this, you know, billion dollar business, then in order to have those things, yeah, you're

00:54:52.300 going to need to sacrifice some family vacations.

00:54:54.300 That's just the reality of it.

00:54:56.900 You know, if you take Elon Musk, for example, I can't imagine he's the most pleasurable person

00:55:02.640 to spend any amount of time with on a personal level, but that's the trade-off.

00:55:07.640 And most of the guests that I've had on, the high achieving ones anyways, in their own right,

00:55:12.620 are the ones who have sacrificed other aspects of their life for their given pursuit.

00:55:17.560 It's just the nature of it.

00:55:20.640 But that's hard because your professional success or your financial prosperity isn't the only

00:55:26.980 consideration, which is why you're wrestling with the question.

00:55:29.640 You might have time that you want to spend with your wife and experiences you want to provide

00:55:35.560 to your kids.

00:55:36.300 And so I would suggest that you start with the end in mind and ask yourself, what is the

00:55:40.360 ultimate goal of life?

00:55:42.400 Is it to build that empire that's untouchable or is it to have enough residual income to

00:55:52.100 provide me $200,000 a year and allow me to go on the trips and the vacations I want to

00:55:57.960 go on and not be strapped and burdened with debt?

00:56:00.100 And if that's the goal, then the process is different than building that billion dollar empire

00:56:04.920 we talked about.

00:56:06.300 And so it might actually, the funny thing about this is, is people will say that they

00:56:13.660 want to have a good retirement so they can go do and enjoy the things that they want to

00:56:17.420 enjoy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:56:18.740 And then you start looking into their finances.

00:56:20.640 And I only know this because I'm a previous financial advisor is you started looking in

00:56:24.460 their finances and you're like, you can do that now.

00:56:28.160 You can do that.

00:56:30.320 Let's say three weeks out of the year, you can actually do that right now.

00:56:34.160 And still build up towards the future.

00:56:38.300 It's like that adage of the Mexican fisherman where he's down and he's fishing in the bay

00:56:46.220 and the Gulf of America, as we would call it now.

00:56:49.020 He's fishing in the Gulf of America and he's catching this fish and this businessman comes

00:56:55.260 down for vacation and sees this fisherman and this fisherman goes and he sells his fish to

00:56:59.420 the market every day.

00:57:01.020 And then he goes down and he fishes and the businessman sees an idea and he's like, hey,

00:57:05.780 you know what?

00:57:06.360 Like if you do this, but then you build your own place, you could eventually start a business

00:57:12.020 and then you can hire people to do it.

00:57:14.780 And then you can sell to all these people and then you can eventually franchise it and you

00:57:19.220 can have multiple locations and you can spend all your time talking with people and giving

00:57:23.640 them your fish.

00:57:25.000 And the Mexican fisherman says, okay, and then what?

00:57:27.820 And he says, and then one day you can retire and you could spend all your time, as much time

00:57:33.540 as you want on the beach, doing something you love, fishing.

00:57:37.760 And the Mexican fisherman says, that sounds great.

00:57:40.480 Like that's what I do right now.

00:57:43.760 And so our, our drive for financial success sometimes blinds us to the reality that we

00:57:52.520 can have it right now.

00:57:54.980 We can do those things right now.

00:57:56.600 That's why I do go on hunts and I do go on trips with my kids and I do explore those things

00:58:01.940 because I have my own goals and investments and different things I'm doing.

00:58:04.660 But I also realize the ultimate goal is something that I can partially enjoy right now.

00:58:08.660 Totally.

00:58:10.800 And you might just have to change what it looks like.

00:58:13.480 Asia and I did, we did some inventory.

00:58:16.060 She had this question that we, that we were addressing over a question or over dinner on

00:58:21.000 Saturday night.

00:58:21.640 And she says, what are the most memorable times in our relationship?

00:58:26.500 And nothing against our kids that might eventually listen to this one day.

00:58:30.520 It didn't include them.

00:58:31.860 It was when her and I went on a vacation together, just her and I.

00:58:39.320 And those were the moments that we remember over the last, you know, 17 years of our marriage.

00:58:44.780 And so we're like, yeah, we need to get back to doing those.

00:58:48.180 But that's also a false dichotomy that it requires an airplane and it requires a beach.

00:58:55.340 We, her and I could hop on a car today and drive down to four corners or areas of Colorado

00:59:01.480 and have our own couples trip from a, yeah, from a more financial, you know, cheaper perspective.

00:59:11.880 We could do that today.

00:59:13.780 Right.

00:59:14.180 And so it may not just be exactly what you think it should look like.

00:59:17.500 Right.

00:59:17.660 We always have this conversation with people in the gym, you know, it's like, oh, my schedule

00:59:21.320 stuff.

00:59:21.780 Yeah.

00:59:21.960 Well, your workout might be pushups, you know, at your lunch break.

00:59:25.420 Right.

00:59:26.060 Can it be done?

00:59:26.840 Absolutely.

00:59:27.380 Just mean, you may have to pivot a little bit and look at it differently too.

00:59:31.280 Yeah.

00:59:32.240 There's one other quote I was going to say that, that I think if you incorporated into your

00:59:36.860 life, it might help.

00:59:37.780 It's this, that's not important to me.

00:59:40.140 Hmm.

00:59:41.880 Most people don't know what is and what is not important to them.

00:59:45.360 And so you can look at a person's, as they say, their calendar and their bank account and

00:59:50.200 really actually determine what their priorities are.

00:59:53.260 Yeah.

00:59:53.620 But if you're going down the road and you think, oh, I'm going to stop and, you know,

00:59:57.300 go to the fast food place and get a burger, I think you ought to consider, is this important

01:00:02.040 to you?

01:00:03.080 Is that hamburger that you're going to spend now, it seems like $20 if you want to get

01:00:07.420 anything.

01:00:08.460 Yeah.

01:00:08.880 Is that more important than saving for retirement?

01:00:12.280 If it is fine, that's fine.

01:00:13.720 Make, make your decisions, but make it with the information at hand.

01:00:18.240 But if it's not, then don't do it.

01:00:19.860 If somebody invites you on a thing and you are just begrudgingly going and you catch

01:00:24.480 yourself bitching and moaning about like, I don't want to do, don't, then don't do it.

01:00:30.360 Damn.

01:00:30.740 You don't have to, if you already committed, that's one thing, but don't commit again.

01:00:35.140 And the next time somebody says, hey, can you come do this thing?

01:00:39.720 Actually look at your calendar, look at your goals and your objectives and say, no, that's

01:00:45.120 not important to me.

01:00:45.820 No, I'm not going to, I'm not going to make it to that thing and then live with it.

01:00:49.520 And I think that's also how you get rid of the fear of missing out.

01:00:53.180 You know, the FOMO, everybody has that.

01:00:54.720 They jump online and they see all these people doing all these amazing things.

01:00:58.380 And I think that's the goal of what social media influencers try to do anyways, is just

01:01:01.780 get everybody jealous, which is a horrible thing, but it's the reality.

01:01:06.960 The way you get over FOMO is you make a grown decision like a man.

01:01:11.480 You decided not to go to that thing.

01:01:13.560 Why?

01:01:14.640 Well, because you're saving money.

01:01:16.180 Cool.

01:01:17.460 Because we wanted to pay off the car.

01:01:19.120 Good choice.

01:01:20.580 Because we're going on vacation next month.

01:01:22.540 Sounds reasonable.

01:01:24.240 You consciously made the decision not to go to that thing for a reason.

01:01:29.000 And that's good.

01:01:30.100 Live with it.

01:01:31.040 Totally.

01:01:31.620 Or make different choices next time.

01:01:32.940 More in this line of thinking.

01:01:37.860 Your Friday Field Notes from a couple weeks ago, right, around doesn't make the boat go

01:01:42.760 any faster is perfect.

01:01:45.200 Off of what you shared with me, yeah.

01:01:47.060 Yeah.

01:01:47.360 Yeah.

01:01:48.060 It's that same concept.

01:01:49.460 I love it.

01:01:50.180 All right.

01:01:50.380 Last question.

01:01:51.100 You good for one more?

01:01:51.860 Okay.

01:01:52.700 Yes, sir.

01:01:53.080 Elijah Elliott, I've been at my current job for almost 10 years.

01:01:58.560 It feels as if there's no growth and no room for it here.

01:02:03.140 I'm definitely not happy here and I do not get any sense of meaning from the work I do.

01:02:07.300 However, I feel trapped due to the high demands on me from both company and family.

01:02:11.880 My suggestions, what suggestions would you have for someone like me who has wanted to pursue

01:02:16.940 more meaningful career path?

01:02:18.480 Well, I know where this conversation is going to go because we've had this a lot.

01:02:24.940 And we'll probably get to it.

01:02:26.180 So I'm trying to give you a different perspective.

01:02:29.180 One thing I want you to consider is that you say you feel the high pressure from work.

01:02:35.700 I'm hesitant to say this, but I think it's the truth.

01:02:39.120 Your company would gladly dump your ass in a heartbeat if they had to.

01:02:44.000 It's very unlikely they have any sort of loyalty to the degree that you have loyalty to them.

01:02:54.360 And that might be different if it's a family business or if you've known the people for 20 years.

01:02:57.960 I can allow for that.

01:02:58.840 I can make room for that conversation.

01:03:00.560 But the probability is very high that you are accurate.

01:03:03.640 Yes, right.

01:03:04.760 So loyalty should only go as far as the other party is willing to be loyal to you.

01:03:10.440 And if that company doesn't care about you, there's no reason that you need to care.

01:03:15.660 And even if they do, if that bit, I've talked with friends just in the past couple of days

01:03:20.860 who have had to let people go over the past 10, 20 years.

01:03:25.360 It's not even personal.

01:03:27.280 They don't want to.

01:03:28.580 And they still make that choice because they're obligated to.

01:03:31.900 It's a business decision.

01:03:32.880 Best interest of the company.

01:03:33.700 Yeah.

01:03:34.280 All right.

01:03:34.640 So don't for a second bust your ass just to think that if you do, you get to escape the hand of fate

01:03:43.440 that might come in and say you're fired.

01:03:45.640 It doesn't.

01:03:46.580 It just doesn't work like that.

01:03:49.900 As far as your family, I don't think your wife wants you to be miserable.

01:03:54.100 It's kind of what you made it sound like.

01:03:56.080 Well, I just feel so much pressure from my family.

01:03:58.320 What you're saying is your wife wants you to do that and be miserable.

01:04:00.960 That's what you're saying.

01:04:02.200 She doesn't want that.

01:04:03.060 I bet if you went and asked her and said, hey, babe, I've been miserable.

01:04:07.100 And she would say, yeah, I know.

01:04:09.020 I know you have.

01:04:10.560 And you know what?

01:04:11.200 It's the work that's making me miserable.

01:04:12.680 But I found this job.

01:04:13.700 It pays me 80% of what I'm making.

01:04:15.480 But I think we'll be really happy there.

01:04:17.000 I bet she would say, okay, let's find a way to make it.

01:04:19.900 I'm not saying do it.

01:04:20.860 It's just a little thought experiment.

01:04:22.500 I bet she'd say, okay, yeah, we can live with that.

01:04:25.200 We can make that work.

01:04:25.960 So what your wife wants is for you to provide naturally.

01:04:31.740 And she also wants you to be happy.

01:04:33.720 Again, false dichotomy there a little bit.

01:04:36.340 Yeah.

01:04:36.420 But as far as the work, I'm not going to steal where I think you might go with this at all.

01:04:41.100 But we talked about it earlier, 100% first.

01:04:46.720 And what I would suggest in the meantime is build other things over here.

01:04:52.220 You can go 100% when you're in your business.

01:04:55.040 And if you would have done this, Elijah, 10 years ago, you might not be in the position you are now.

01:04:59.920 And I only say that because I don't want you to sit on what I'm about to share with you for another 10 years.

01:05:04.540 Because in 10 years, I don't want to hear the same question from you.

01:05:07.720 I want to hear a different question, a better question based on better circumstances for you.

01:05:14.280 But what I would spend a lot of time doing is learning applicable skills in your current career that are applicable elsewhere.

01:05:21.900 Because you're learning on somebody else's dime.

01:05:25.300 And you're not taking advantage of them, by the way.

01:05:27.020 That's the agreement.

01:05:27.680 They're going to teach you these skills.

01:05:29.240 But nowhere does it say you can't apply them to other aspects of your life.

01:05:33.200 Yeah.

01:05:34.160 Okay.

01:05:34.500 So that's one thing.

01:05:36.500 I'd really, really get good at networking.

01:05:40.880 I cannot overemphasize the importance of professional networking for men.

01:05:47.240 You think you're safe.

01:05:49.020 You don't think you need to make connections.

01:05:51.180 I'm not saying this about you personally.

01:05:52.580 I just know a lot of men think, oh, I'm good.

01:05:54.960 I'm not in sales.

01:05:56.040 I don't need...

01:05:56.740 Wrong.

01:05:58.020 Wrong.

01:05:59.180 You need to know everybody in the office.

01:06:01.220 You need to have a close relationship with all of the movers and shakers in the office.

01:06:06.380 With your clients.

01:06:06.840 You need to go to networking clients.

01:06:08.720 Yep.

01:06:09.240 You need...

01:06:09.840 Yes.

01:06:10.700 You need to go to networking functions.

01:06:13.720 Even if your company won't pay you to go, you should go to Chamber.

01:06:17.160 You should go to Rotary.

01:06:18.360 You should go to Business Network International.

01:06:20.760 Even if the company is not paying you.

01:06:23.240 And you can represent the company.

01:06:24.800 You can represent your own thing.

01:06:26.640 Whatever.

01:06:27.100 But you need to be around other people.

01:06:28.920 Because those are the people who are going to present other opportunities.

01:06:32.860 But they're only going to present them if you're willing to go 100% with your current business.

01:06:37.900 They'll see that.

01:06:38.640 They will.

01:06:39.720 And they know who you are.

01:06:41.500 So you have to be around other people.

01:06:43.000 So I would develop skills and develop my network.

01:06:46.500 That's what I would work on.

01:06:47.800 Perfect.

01:06:48.940 Now, I don't...

01:06:49.600 Here's the thought.

01:06:50.760 And you've already covered it.

01:06:52.240 But Elijah, the opportunity and growth that is available to you today is typically shrouded in the work that you're avoiding.

01:07:03.120 So evaluate the position.

01:07:05.400 What are you avoiding?

01:07:06.220 Where's the hard opportunities for you to learn and grow and create opportunity?

01:07:09.820 And then it goes back to the questions that we had kind of addressed earlier today around the same subject.

01:07:17.680 I had a...

01:07:19.780 I'll give you a little bit of...

01:07:20.740 Just a quick back story here.

01:07:22.960 When I was in financial planning, I went to my boss.

01:07:27.580 And I said, hey, I want to do this marketing thing.

01:07:29.680 And I want to start marketing a little bit more.

01:07:31.220 And I want to do this audio CD thing that I've told a lot of people about where I put my first presentation on a CD.

01:07:39.020 And I give it to people.

01:07:39.860 And he said, no, you can't.

01:07:41.120 No, we don't do that.

01:07:42.440 We don't do it like that.

01:07:44.200 I said, why don't you do it like that?

01:07:45.480 He's like, well, I mean, you have to go through compliance.

01:07:48.320 And after this and that, I'm like, okay.

01:07:50.720 I mean, it's a script.

01:07:51.660 I can send it through compliance.

01:07:53.400 And they can say, say this, don't say that, tweak this, add this, take that.

01:07:57.660 I can do that.

01:07:58.600 No, no, no, no, no, no.

01:07:59.760 We don't do that.

01:08:01.220 I'm like, oh, well, okay.

01:08:02.960 So I went and started my own company.

01:08:05.920 That's not the only reason, by the way.

01:08:07.760 Yeah.

01:08:08.220 But I started my own registered investment advisory firm.

01:08:10.760 And guess what I did?

01:08:12.400 Did the thing I wanted to do anyways, because he said I couldn't do it.

01:08:16.220 And immediately the business started to grow.

01:08:19.600 Very long story short, that decision where there was some opportunity there that I was willing to jump into and they weren't willing to do it.

01:08:28.640 And I did it anyways and took the risk to do it anyways springboarded me into what we're doing here with Order of Man.

01:08:34.320 I never would have had a podcast because they told me, you can't podcast in this business.

01:08:39.000 You can't do that CD presentation.

01:08:41.600 You can't do this.

01:08:42.600 You can't do that.

01:08:43.240 You can't market this way.

01:08:44.240 You can't go on radio.

01:08:45.180 Can't, can't, can't, can't, can't.

01:08:46.540 And I didn't buy any of it.

01:08:48.760 There were rules that I abided by.

01:08:50.420 I understand the regulations, especially in finances.

01:08:52.760 And I abided by those rules, but I did it anyways.

01:08:55.840 And that's the exact reason why I have a podcast today and why it's doing so well 10 years later, because I never listened to what people said I could and couldn't do and looked for opportunities where none existed before.

01:09:08.380 Nobody ever thought of that before.

01:09:09.780 Well, and, and to dissect that a little bit, Ryan, most guys don't even have the conversation with the boss, right?

01:09:17.920 Like they'll go, oh yeah, that, that they'll listen to that story and then say, they'll jump to the action, but they'll skip the part where you assertively communicated up the chain of command and said, I have an idea.

01:09:31.560 This is the idea.

01:09:32.580 Here's the benefits.

01:09:33.780 Some bosses may have heard you and went, dude, Ryan, awesome.

01:09:37.620 Let's create this position or let's have you train the rest of the organization.

01:09:42.220 But we don't even have those conversations.

01:09:44.760 I remember the first time I was a software engineer for a couple of years and I got my degree and I use that as like a pin, right?

01:09:54.260 I got my bachelor's and I schedule a meeting with my boss.

01:09:58.880 It's been my boss for probably about a year at the time.

01:10:00.940 And I grabbed my resume and I printed it out and I had a list of all my accomplishments for the organization for the past year and a half.

01:10:10.280 And I went to his office and I slid it across his desk and I said, I want to apply for a position that doesn't exist yet.

01:10:16.860 He's like, what do you mean?

01:10:17.720 I'm like, we need to build a software development team.

01:10:20.560 I'm the right person to lead that team.

01:10:22.740 Let me explain.

01:10:23.600 Let me share with you what I've been doing for the last year and a half.

01:10:28.360 And he was like, literally, sounds great.

01:10:33.900 And I remember walking out of the office going, shit, I did not think that was going to work at all.

01:10:39.520 You're like, I should have asked for more money.

01:10:41.620 Totally, totally.

01:10:43.200 But the point is, is now that we've been in leadership roles later in our careers, how often are you inspired when someone comes to you, Ryan, and says, Ryan, I have an idea.

01:10:52.680 This is why I'm the man for the job.

01:10:55.040 Let me show you.

01:10:56.520 Do you think low of that person?

01:10:58.460 No.

01:10:59.660 Even if I don't like the idea.

01:11:01.840 I know.

01:11:02.460 You think more highly of that individual.

01:11:04.640 They're like, oh, they're assertive.

01:11:06.000 They want it.

01:11:07.120 This is important to them.

01:11:08.560 They're even more committed to this company and this organization than I realized.

01:11:14.560 You have to be assertive in that communication up the chain.

01:11:19.500 And in most cases, it will benefit you whether it was a good idea or not in most cases.

01:11:26.880 I think there's the other angle.

01:11:28.640 The other side of this is if you're listening to this and you are in that position of authority and power that you hear what we're saying and you acknowledge it when people have ideas.

01:11:39.840 Even if they're dumb, I think it's really, especially when we get busy, I've had people present ideas and I've really been cognizant of the way that I respond and what my response is training people to do.

01:11:51.840 So, for example, if my kids come to me and they share, I don't know, some dumb story about something I don't want to hear about and I roll my eyes and I'm like, hurry and get to the point and I act agitated or impatient, which all might be true, if I act that way, the result is that they don't come share things with me.

01:12:13.540 That's the inevitable result.

01:12:16.020 So if an employee comes to you and says, hey, boss, I got this great idea, even if it's a bad idea and you're like, I don't have time for that bullshit right now, like, can you just go do your work and like, don't, we'll talk about it later.

01:12:31.540 What you're asking them to do is to never come to you with an idea again.

01:12:35.940 And then I've heard people that have the balls, the audacity to say, my employees don't ever take initiative.

01:12:42.960 They don't ever come up with ideas.

01:12:44.680 They don't care about what this company's doing.

01:12:46.800 I'm like, what about Joe who just sent that idea over to you last week?

01:12:50.660 Oh, well, that was stupid.

01:12:52.380 Okay, maybe, but he did the thing that you're complaining people aren't doing.

01:12:58.020 And it's you who told them not to do it because of your attitude about it.

01:13:03.080 But so, yeah, I think we need to be more aware of what our response is training people to do.

01:13:11.500 It's either an incentive or a deterrent, as they would say in the political warfare landscape.

01:13:20.380 You're either incentivizing people to behave a certain way or you're deterring them from behaving a certain way.

01:13:25.640 And as men and leaders, whether it's at the family level or the corporate level, we ought to be aware of what our responses are incentivizing our people to do.

01:13:35.500 Totally.

01:13:36.700 Cool.

01:13:38.040 We got through all our questions.

01:13:40.500 Good work.

01:13:41.260 We got some over on Facebook, so we'll address those next week.

01:13:44.420 Those are always really good questions.

01:13:45.860 I have just been excited about the level of questions that we've been getting lately.

01:13:50.380 I don't know what's changed or if guys have just been around long enough where they don't want to be, you know, speaking of incentives, mocked for asking us dumb questions.

01:14:00.320 But the questions that we get are good.

01:14:03.800 I love the questions we get.

01:14:05.540 And we've got some new ones lately, too.

01:14:07.660 Yeah.

01:14:07.900 Maybe we're reading them different, too.

01:14:10.540 Maybe.

01:14:11.120 Maybe we're like, I don't want to answer it that way.

01:14:13.280 Yeah.

01:14:13.480 Oh, you did skip over a question, though, by the way, from Robbie.

01:14:18.040 Totally.

01:14:19.440 Well, I thought.

01:14:20.780 No, we're going to hit it once and for all.

01:14:22.460 You have two minutes, Skip?

01:14:24.020 Sure.

01:14:24.660 Let's do it.

01:14:25.520 So do you have two minutes?

01:14:27.540 I do.

01:14:28.120 I do.

01:14:28.840 Okay.

01:14:29.620 Ask the question.

01:14:30.740 Let's tackle this once and for all.

01:14:32.340 I thought about this.

01:14:34.240 So, and I, let me pull back.

01:14:36.540 I closed the document.

01:14:38.020 So give me a second to pull it up.

01:14:40.580 So Robbie asked the question.

01:14:41.680 Some background here while you're doing that.

01:14:44.320 He asked a question a couple weeks ago, essentially about masculine hobbies versus things that we

01:14:48.980 would consider, not consider masculine hobbies.

01:14:51.640 And we answered it in a way that he did not like twice, apparently.

01:14:56.860 So Robbie asked it again, but I have some thoughts based on the way he framed it this

01:15:00.680 time.

01:15:00.900 Go ahead.

01:15:01.400 Okay.

01:15:01.760 Well, at full disclosure, I was like, Ryan, you just need to reply to Robbie personally on

01:15:06.520 this one.

01:15:07.160 But no, I'm not.

01:15:07.900 I'm going to.

01:15:08.320 I've got an answer.

01:15:09.000 Okay.

01:15:09.340 Um, I should, uh, should we intentionally look for projects that will reinforce or ground

01:15:17.320 us in our masculinity, like building a boat, rebuilding an engine, et cetera.

01:15:21.860 I feel like suburban life is making us weaker, not just physically, but mentally as well, because

01:15:27.900 we are not grounded in masculinity.

01:15:29.440 Like we used to 50 years ago when men used to change their own oil in their car.

01:15:34.140 Should we make it a point to take on more masculine projects for purpose or reinforcing

01:15:38.520 masculinity?

01:15:39.520 Is there value in that?

01:15:41.200 Or should we just accept the new standard of suburban masculinity?

01:15:45.640 The answer is yes.

01:15:50.060 The answer is, of course, yes.

01:15:52.500 Anytime that you pick up a hobby, it's to address a deficiency, right?

01:15:56.260 Maybe you're not as good as at a thing.

01:15:57.960 Maybe you would like to do a certain thing.

01:16:00.880 And I do think that we answered this, whether it was a week or two ago, that if, because

01:16:06.740 I, if I remember correctly, and I might just be making this up, Robbie said, if we have

01:16:11.260 all of those other things taken care of, is it okay to, I think I vaguely remember.

01:16:17.120 Do you remember that?

01:16:17.960 Or am I making that up?

01:16:18.560 Yes, I remember that as well.

01:16:20.080 Okay, so he did say, if you have these other bases covered, is it okay to, and the answer

01:16:25.680 to that is yes.

01:16:26.900 But look, if you don't know how to fight, then you probably shouldn't be worrying about

01:16:33.000 painting a masterpiece.

01:16:34.820 Like fighting is probably more important in the life of a man than painting, to be honest.

01:16:39.280 If you're 50 pounds overweight, you should probably focus on that before you, I don't like go take

01:16:49.580 pictures on a Sunday afternoon river walk or something.

01:16:52.600 I don't know.

01:16:54.460 Like if you don't have a blue belt in jujitsu, then you should probably get at least a blue

01:17:00.300 belt in jujitsu.

01:17:01.180 Like that's probably a thing you should do.

01:17:02.700 Um, if you can't at a minimum bench one times your body weight, squat 1.25 times your body

01:17:12.980 weight, deadlift 1.5 times your body weight, you should probably get that figured out.

01:17:18.460 Yeah.

01:17:19.200 If you don't know how to shoot a firearm, you should probably figure it out.

01:17:22.260 If you don't know how to fix the toilet, yes, you should know how to fix the toilet.

01:17:26.860 If you don't know how to change the oil in your car, you should know how to change the

01:17:30.140 oil or change a tire.

01:17:31.660 Yes.

01:17:32.640 All of those things you should know how to do.

01:17:34.400 If you don't know how to build things, if you don't have a general sense of knowledge

01:17:37.160 around hand and power tools, yes, you should know how to do those things.

01:17:41.660 Absolutely.

01:17:42.740 And you should also do the other things too, but those should be a priority.

01:17:46.960 And I think, and I think this is what we kind of answered and maybe this is where we,

01:17:51.120 we lost you a little bit, uh, Robbie on this was protect, provide, and preside.

01:17:55.940 Are you, are you efficient?

01:17:58.200 And you covered in those three areas.

01:18:01.180 If you're not, those are deficiencies that you need to address.

01:18:06.960 And, and those are typically masculine things.

01:18:10.660 And then if you, if you want to hop into the arts, who are we to say that you shouldn't,

01:18:17.060 right?

01:18:17.260 Like, and, and not only shouldn't, it'd be great.

01:18:20.180 I would love to see more masculine masculinity in the arts.

01:18:25.100 I absolutely would love it because I hate the fact that if a boy wants to dance, the,

01:18:31.980 he thinks that he has to do it in a feminine way.

01:18:35.880 I, it drives me mad.

01:18:37.560 I hate those things.

01:18:38.620 Well, I think that's the general consensus because there are so many gay men who are

01:18:43.120 dancers, but there's also straight men and you see them and they're powerful and you

01:18:47.580 see them dancing and like men and it's awesome.

01:18:52.120 They're pretty athletic actually.

01:18:53.960 Yes.

01:18:54.200 And there's good, there's greatness in that, in the masculinity of the arts, because this

01:18:59.300 is how we promote positive masculinity.

01:19:02.280 This is how we, we show that masculinity is a great thing.

01:19:06.200 So all of it's good.

01:19:08.340 Learn all of it.

01:19:09.620 But what we're really saying is in those areas of your realms of responsibility as a man,

01:19:15.420 protecting, providing, presiding are, do you have deficiencies there?

01:19:19.360 If you, if you do, you should probably sure those up.

01:19:22.500 And I think to his point about the urban environments, you know, that's probably more relevant.

01:19:27.320 You know, if you've lived in an urban city your entire life, do you know how to camp?

01:19:32.000 Yeah.

01:19:33.080 You have to go out of your way.

01:19:35.180 Yeah.

01:19:36.060 Right.

01:19:36.520 If you don't know how to do those things, put down the pottery for a minute, not forever,

01:19:41.220 just for a minute and go camp or tell a friend to go take you hunting and round it out.

01:19:46.820 That's all I'm saying.

01:19:47.520 And just round it out.

01:19:48.380 Of course, men should do that.

01:19:50.400 Yeah.

01:19:51.180 Cool.

01:19:51.620 Yeah.

01:19:52.260 All right.

01:19:52.720 One more question from Robbie next week.

01:19:54.640 Hopefully we address it to Robbie's liking.

01:19:55.360 Robbie, hopefully that's to your liking now.

01:19:57.160 Okay.

01:19:59.220 Just giving you a hard time, man.

01:20:00.760 So, I mean, big things, obviously connect with Ryan on X and Instagram at Ryan Michler.

01:20:05.760 And then really the event coming up in May, May 1st through the 4th.

01:20:10.300 Yep.

01:20:10.860 1st through the 4th.

01:20:11.580 Yep.

01:20:12.180 And that's themensforge.com.

01:20:16.400 I'm excited, man.

01:20:17.520 We had a lot of people sign up just recently.

01:20:19.940 So it's going to be a very cool event.

01:20:23.200 Robert Glover, Dr. Robert Glover, no more Mr. Nice Guy is going to be there.

01:20:26.980 I'm going to be there.

01:20:28.340 It's going to be pretty cool.

01:20:29.760 Yeah.

01:20:30.580 That's a joke.

01:20:31.520 That second part's a joke, okay?

01:20:33.100 No, I mean, it's not really.

01:20:34.600 I mean, I will be there, but that's not the deal.

01:20:38.280 All right, guys.

01:20:39.980 Great questions today.

01:20:41.080 Appreciate that.

01:20:41.780 Hopefully, like we do every week, hopefully we gave you some things to ponder and think about.

01:20:45.740 And we will be back on Friday.

01:20:48.620 Until then, go out there, take action, and become the man you are meant to be.

01:20:51.860 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

01:20:59.080 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:21:02.780 We invite you to join the Order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - February 12, 2025

ASK ME ANYTHING

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript