Order of Man - AXEL KAISER ｜ How the West Was Lost

00:00:00.000 We all know how the West was won with rugged individualism, a bold and daring approach to

00:00:05.020 the new frontier, and a fierce belief in personal liberty and independence. But that does not

00:00:10.660 describe the West, or more specifically, America any longer. We've traded individualism for

00:00:16.440 collectivism, risk-taking for easy handouts, and liberty for big brother. My guest today,

00:00:22.320 Axel Kaiser, makes the case against leftist ideology, why America is the last glimmer of

00:00:28.060 hope in the world, and how a basic understanding of economics could free us all. Today, we talk

00:00:34.300 about public debt and entitlement, whether the leftist ideology that permeates our culture

00:00:38.880 is based in ignorance, stupidity, or malice, why the meritocracy isn't a representation of power

00:00:45.860 hierarchies, which a lot of people like to say, and how if we continue down this path, we may see a

00:00:51.640 new age of darkness. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears,

00:00:56.840 and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every

00:01:02.480 time. You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life.

00:01:09.340 This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and

00:01:14.740 done, you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler. I'm the

00:01:20.480 host and the founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement. Welcome here today and welcome back.

00:01:25.420 If you're joining me for the very first time, this is a good one to join us on because this is a

00:01:31.220 powerful representation of what we talk about here. And although some people might believe this

00:01:36.340 is political, I think this has a lot to do with what it means to be a good man and how we can begin

00:01:42.060 to reshape our culture and society in a way that not just serves us as individuals, but our families,

00:01:48.020 our communities, our country, and everybody that we absolutely can, the people that we care about.

00:01:52.700 So glad you're tuning in before we get into the meat of the discussion. I do want to share that

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00:02:43.120 create. All right, guys, let me introduce you to my guest. His name is Axel Kaiser. He is a Chilean

00:02:47.960 German lawyer with a master's in investments, commerce, and arbitration, a master of arts and

00:02:52.880 a doctor of philosophy from the university of Heidelberg, Germany. Uh, this guy is absolutely

00:02:58.700 incredible. Uh, he's been a visiting scholar at Stanford university Hoover's institution. He's also

00:03:05.140 a bestselling author of his latest book, the street economist, which we talk a little bit about

00:03:09.060 today. And he's also won several international prizes for his writings. Uh, his opinions have

00:03:14.160 been published in international media, such as the wall street journal, uh, the Washington post

00:03:18.600 forbes.com newsweek, the Washington examiner. These are just to name a few. And in 2021, there was a

00:03:25.660 study published by the Johns Hopkins university Institute for applied economics, which placed him

00:03:30.860 third among the influencers on economic matters with the greatest global impact in Latin America,

00:03:38.380 Spain, and the United States. So this is a man who's well-versed in economics and also the signs

00:03:44.900 of the times and, uh, what is happening, not just with economics, but, uh, culture as a whole. Enjoy

00:03:52.040 this one guys. Axel, what's going on? Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today.

00:03:57.880 No, thank you very much for the invitation. Yeah. I was glad that you reached out because I, I,

00:04:02.700 I, I've seen your work. I I've read a little bit of your book. I haven't got through the whole

00:04:06.560 thing, but this is a constant pain point for me. The, uh, the ignorance, the ignorance around

00:04:12.620 economics, uh, the ignorance around how money works, how value is driven, who gets to determine

00:04:17.920 value. And I was, I was going through your book and going through your work. I'm like, okay,

00:04:21.580 finally here, here's an individual who gets it and can explain it in a way that is easy for us to

00:04:27.680 understand and consume. If we didn't spend any amount of time in the financial industry,

00:04:31.660 like I have in the past. So your work is invaluable. Yeah. Thank you very much. Uh, I wrote this book,

00:04:37.780 uh, you know, with the aim of, uh, having accessible material for, for people, uh, so that they can

00:04:45.580 understand basic economic principles. And, um, that's because I've seen in Latin America, how populism

00:04:53.780 and socialism, uh, feeds from this ignorance. People don't understand really basics, uh, economic

00:05:00.220 ideas, like what are prices, for example, how, how do they form, uh, what is capital, how is capital

00:05:07.140 created and so on. So I, I, uh, wrote this book, 15 lessons. Uh, it's called the street economist

00:05:13.000 with 15 lessons in economics. Everyone should know it's a very short book. It has no, uh, footnotes

00:05:19.040 and it has no, you know, math or graphs or anything like that. So it's very easy to understand. And it has

00:05:25.760 been a huge success in many, many countries. Yeah. The only thing that would have been better for me,

00:05:29.660 if there were more pictures, but outside of that, this is my speed and it's all, like I said,

00:05:34.220 so easy to understand. Yeah. But you know, it has been very popular among the youth, which is

00:05:38.940 really important to me because if you see surveys, polls, like even in the United States,

00:05:43.860 socialism is, uh, becoming more and more popular among Gen Zers and, you know, uh, people who are at

00:05:49.660 school or university or universities, not only in the United States, but also in Latin America or in,

00:05:54.960 in Europe. So, uh, now it's being published in, in different European countries, even in Germany,

00:06:00.240 it has been a huge success in Germany, uh, but also in different Latin American countries and Spain

00:06:05.040 and so on. So, um, I think the aim of the book, which was to make it easy for people to understand,

00:06:13.040 uh, economics has been achieved and, you know, it's from all social classes. It's very interesting

00:06:18.940 because it's not elitist guys coming out from the university wanting to understand economics. It's,

00:06:24.440 it's the taxi driver, you know, it's the, uh, you know, the delivery guy, everyone, I mean,

00:06:30.340 from different social, um, circumstances, they are reading the book and that's makes, that makes me

00:06:35.780 very happy. And it has been a huge selling book. How let's, let's talk about socialism. Let's define

00:06:42.420 that term first before we get into the weeds and the nitty gritty of what that means and what it looks

00:06:46.840 like and why it has become increasingly popular among, uh, younger generations. Uh, the way I

00:06:52.640 understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that socialism is basically, uh, in a way that

00:06:58.540 the, the control over the means by which, uh, products and goods and services are produced and

00:07:04.760 then distributed through a government entity, uh, based on people's needs, not necessarily the

00:07:12.860 meritocracy that we somewhat live in right now. Yeah. So, um, socialism in economic terms,

00:07:20.840 this is a classic definition is the, uh, control by the state over the means of production. Right. Um,

00:07:28.280 but now I would, I would suggest something a little bit different. It's, um, and it has more to do with

00:07:33.880 philosophy than merely with economics. It has a lot to do with economics, but it's, it's, it's really the,

00:07:40.660 it's a collectivist mindset. It's the idea that individualism is wrong, that pursuing your own

00:07:48.340 happiness, uh, and trying to help others, uh, you know, in following arrangements, it's, it's a problem.

00:07:54.600 And therefore you have to, uh, collectivize, uh, property and you have to collectivize more and more

00:08:00.560 the fruits of people's labors and labor. And so socialism today means a lot of government

00:08:07.340 redistribution, a lot of government intervention. And, um, so the, the, the product of your labor

00:08:15.040 is socialized basically, because if you are paying taxes as you are paying in Europe, sometimes you're

00:08:19.720 paying 60, 70% of your income in taxes. If you add everything, put everything together, then really

00:08:26.840 you are not working for yourself or your family. You're working for the government and they spend the

00:08:31.540 money as they see fit. So, um, I, I would, I would suggest that socialism nowadays, there are not many

00:08:39.900 people who really propose the Soviet union style of economic system. They, they, what they want is to

00:08:47.080 confiscate what, uh, private individuals can create. And in some cases like Latin America, you have,

00:08:54.000 you know, uh, a more straightforward brand of socialism, which is government taking over crucial

00:09:01.140 companies like mining, the mining sector, uh, like natural resources and, and things like that. It's

00:09:06.880 what you have in Venezuela, for instance. Right. Um, so, and, and then you have the whole progressive

00:09:12.080 part with, with, with deconstruction and the woke movement. And that is also mixed with this anti-capitalist

00:09:19.480 mindset, um, which is very antithetical to all the ideals that was, that were very, uh, I mean,

00:09:26.860 that were foundational to the United States, for example. So that's, that's what, um, what I would

00:09:32.580 say socialism is today and a little bit different from the classic version, right?

00:09:38.920 It's, it's interesting that you're talking about that, that, um, that collectivist mindset, because on

00:09:45.720 one hand, you're talking about it with this growth of socialism, but on the other hand, there's really a

00:09:50.420 pervasive idea in, in the United States. And I'm sure across much of the Western world that it's all

00:09:56.640 about the idolization of self. So you have people saying, you know, they're, uh, like trans, the

00:10:03.660 transgender movement, I think is a great example of that. We're no longer going to fit into these

00:10:08.180 clearly identified biological, uh, windows or, or labels, as they like to say. And instead,

00:10:15.380 we're going to say that I feel this way, therefore I am. And it's become an idolization of self rather

00:10:21.100 than, uh, the, the collective agreement or understanding of, in this case, how biology

00:10:28.560 works. So on one hand, in this idea of socialism, you have this idea that, uh, it's not about self,

00:10:33.740 but then, but then societally it really has become about self and all the institutions of the Western

00:10:39.700 world are being systematically and, and, and painfully dismantled.

00:10:45.840 I, I, I fully agree. But you know, the main difference is we classical liberals or conservatives,

00:10:51.260 we, we, we believe in the individual, even some social Democrats like Bill Maher, for instance,

00:10:56.320 right. They, they are not so much a woke thing, but we believe in the individual as a, as a reality.

00:11:01.860 What does it mean that we believe that there is a truth? And, and part of that truth is that we

00:11:07.600 exist as individuals. That means we have concrete circumstances, like you are male or female,

00:11:13.680 male, and we believe in reason. That means, uh, we can use arguments based in logic and evidence

00:11:20.020 in order to make our case. And we believe in fundamental rights like liberty and life and

00:11:24.900 all of that. Right. And, uh, the problem with the woke movement, and we have to remember this is that

00:11:29.820 it is, um, an offspring of neo-Marxist ideologies, uh, like the French postmodern tradition and the

00:11:37.240 Frankfurt school in Germany. And so the main idea within the woke movement is that the truth doesn't

00:11:44.280 exist. Everything is about power. So it's, it's narratives competing in order to dominate, um,

00:11:51.400 the, uh, certain groups like white has heterosexual, heterosexual straight men. I mean, of course,

00:11:58.120 straight men, um, create narratives that would marginalize all other groups. And therefore,

00:12:05.040 if for instance, you say Shakespeare was a great writer, what you are saying is, um, that you are,

00:12:13.360 um, marginalizing all other writers who are not a white straight upper class, uh, Western civilization

00:12:21.120 type of, uh, white men. Right. And so, um, the, the problem with the woke movement is because they don't

00:12:28.840 have an idea of objective truth. It's all about your own feelings and nothing else. And, and, and,

00:12:34.400 and they destroy the individual as a practical reality. They, they, uh, deny that the individual

00:12:41.360 does exist in the sense that, uh, there is some reality beyond your feelings, your perceptions,

00:12:50.260 or the ideas you have in your mind. And that relativism, it's core to every totalitarian ideology.

00:12:57.300 If you go to Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia, it was exactly the same. And that was, uh, one of

00:13:03.300 Carl Popper is the great philosopher of science in the 20th century. He criticized these ideologies

00:13:08.740 for being relativistic in nature. And they deny the existence of the existence of truth in order to

00:13:14.420 impose the truth that they want. And that's sort of, uh, their interest and their, um, you know,

00:13:20.180 um, uh, their aim of, um, having more and more power in their own hands. And so it's, uh, it's a very,

00:13:29.060 um, um, you know, deep, a debate that you can have about these issues because there have,

00:13:36.100 they have a long history in, in, in philosophy. And unfortunately you are seeing now that the West

00:13:43.460 going down the drain because of these, uh, relativistic ideologies are, uh, taking over

00:13:48.540 all the institutions. And that's why you can't claim that the West is better than other civilizations.

00:13:53.500 You can't claim that there are, um, intrinsically positive things about the West. And you cannot

00:14:00.700 claim that there is any sort of hierarchy or superiority about anything because all that there

00:14:06.780 is, is power structures and narratives and, um, and that have been created by the white guys in order

00:14:16.060 to oppress everyone else. And you only can sustain that if you deny the existence of truth, because if you

00:14:22.940 admit that there is truth, then you have to accept that some things are better than others, because

00:14:28.220 you have an objective standard in order to measure if something is better than the other thing.

00:14:32.940 Right. And if some cultures are better than others, and if some ideas are better and so on and so forth.

00:14:38.860 So, so that I would say is the main difference between, um, between what we argue individual.

00:14:45.580 I mean, what we classical liberals defend as an individual and what they argue is an individual.

00:14:50.300 They, they, they, the, as, as I said, they deny the existence of the individual and go to a point

00:14:57.260 where is a, a mere creation of their imagination, like it, like it, you know, um, like they were in

00:15:04.780 the matrix or something like that. It's, it's not really, um, a serious philosophy, but it's very contagious.

00:15:11.900 The, the power, the power dynamics is a really interesting argument. Uh, for example, someone

00:15:18.780 listening to this podcast might, might conclude if they fall under this ideology that I have some

00:15:24.060 level of power because I have access to this podcast or access to guests like yourself, or I'm somewhat

00:15:30.780 influential with the people who would listen. And I'm on a micro scale compared to other companies and

00:15:36.140 organizations out there, but I'm just using this as an example. But what's interesting about it is

00:15:40.140 that if I let that so-called power go to my head, uh, or I start losing my ability to add value.

00:15:48.860 And that's one of the concepts you talk about in your book is who determines value if I understand

00:15:52.700 correctly. So if I lose perceived value in the eye of the consumer, that's so-called power that I had

00:15:59.660 goes away. I'm no longer as influential as I once was. So the power is not really there. The power is

00:16:06.300 with the 8 billion people collectively, uh, on the planet deciding what is valuable and what they're

00:16:13.100 willing to trade or pay for goods and services. But I'm always fascinated with individuals who buy into

00:16:19.900 this power hierarchy. And in order to replace the power dynamics and structures they believe exist,

00:16:27.100 they're willing to trade it to a all powerful, all, uh, benevolent government that has proven throughout

00:16:37.980 time in history to squash and trample individuals way quicker and with much more brutality than any

00:16:46.060 organization or corporate company on the planet. I don't understand why it's okay that the government

00:16:51.500 does it because they're, you know, benevolent.

00:16:53.500 Yeah. You know, Ludwig von Mises, the great Austrian economist used to, used to speak about this and

00:16:59.340 he, he defined this worldview as a statolatry, right? It's a sort of religion that, um, that you

00:17:07.900 embrace and makes you believe that the government, the state is going to somehow solve all problems and

00:17:14.700 it's going to, you know, elevate society to higher degrees of moral, uh, standing and economic

00:17:20.940 prosperity, which is of course nonsense because there is no such thing as government or state,

00:17:25.820 the state. There are groups of people who have certain privileges in the monopoly of violence.

00:17:30.380 That's what we call the state and politicians and they have their own agendas and their own,

00:17:35.180 and they also pursue their own interests, but with our money. And then we have the regular citizens who

00:17:40.860 have to pay taxes in order to support all of that and, uh, and, and fund all of these people. And, um,

00:17:46.220 um, and, and, and this is one of the things I explained in the book, uh, value is, is created

00:17:51.980 by the entrepreneurs and, you know, business people only in so far as they are, um, satisfying

00:18:00.780 demands and needs from the consumers and the regular people. I mean, there is, there is zero chance that

00:18:06.220 you can become rich in a capitalist society or the free market. If you don't come up with some idea that

00:18:13.180 people value because no one is going to buy it. Uh, and so you will go broke, uh, and you have

00:18:18.380 every day, uh, thousands of companies that are going broke, you know, from large corporations to

00:18:23.900 small, um, enterprises. And so it's, it's a big misconception to think that for instance,

00:18:31.340 even your income is determined by the generosity of your employer. That's not the case. And there is

00:18:36.700 no power. Bill Gates has no power over us because he's much wealthier than we are. I mean, and,

00:18:42.540 and, and, and astronomically wealthier than we are. So why not? Because we, we have something

00:18:47.900 called a human capital, right? If Bill Gates came to you and told you, okay, now you work for me for

00:18:52.940 $500 per month, you would say no chance. I will, I will not do that because I mean, I have alternatives,

00:18:58.860 right? In the free market, I can go and make 10,000, 20,000 a month, whatever. And, um, and so Bill

00:19:04.940 Gates has no power over you. He, he will have to go to the MIT engineers and pay what they are demanding in

00:19:10.780 the market, even though he's much wealthier. So this idea that wealthy people have power

00:19:16.460 because they have money, it's a complete misconception. And, and the only way they

00:19:22.460 can have real power is by colluding with the politicians, because then they have the compulsory

00:19:28.220 apparatus of the state that can make, you know, laws that benefits, uh, benefit them and, and give

00:19:34.940 them privileges and all sorts of subsidies. And that's when you have crony capitalism, which is the

00:19:39.420 opposite to free market capitalism. And I think that's what people conflate, right? They say,

00:19:44.700 well, capitalism is bad. It's like, well, tell me what about capitalism is wrong. And they'll

00:19:48.300 explain crony capitalism. I'm like, I agree. That is horrible. You know, whether it's big pharma or

00:19:54.540 we even see this in, in tech spaces and social media spaces with, uh, all sorts of revelations showing that,

00:20:00.940 uh, the, the department of justice and other departments within the federal government,

00:20:05.740 uh, have, have colluded with big tech companies to suppress certain platforms, certain thoughts

00:20:13.660 and concepts that has nothing to do with capitalism. That's crony capitalism. And that's actually what

00:20:19.260 we're suggesting people want more of that's a confusing concept to me. Yeah. But that's exactly,

00:20:24.940 you know, that happens because people really don't know a lot about economics. And that's why I wrote the

00:20:30.460 books, the book, uh, the street economist, because if people understood like how prices work, how

00:20:36.220 productivity is determined, why does capital and things like that, they would never, um, endorse this

00:20:43.100 worldview that the government is the solution for our problems. And, and that, you know, uh, capitalism

00:20:49.020 is the same as crony capitalism. A free market system is by definition free. You have some rules

00:20:55.180 like private property and others, and then you have to compete and you have to compete in order to

00:21:00.620 collaborate with your consumers, which is another myth that, you know, that the system is cruel because

00:21:05.900 you are only competing and then, uh, it's so inhuman and so on. No, a free market is a system where

00:21:13.740 people compete. Yes. Companies compete, but in order to collaborate with the consumers, you have

00:21:18.460 Toyota competing, you know, with Mazda or Subaru or whatever, but, uh, in order for you to have a better

00:21:25.020 car that is cheaper, right? Or now Tesla with other, uh, uh, companies, uh, making, uh, electric

00:21:31.580 vehicles. So, um, so it's, it's the best system that has ever existed and we are corrupting it more

00:21:40.300 and more with huge government spending, with huge government interventions everywhere. And the United

00:21:45.340 States, unfortunately is not an example. And I see many resemblances to what's going on in Latin

00:21:51.420 America. I mean, I'm very worried about the United States if they don't, if they don't go back to

00:21:56.700 their free market. Um, if you want Jeffersonian type of, uh, ideas, um, with small government,

00:22:05.660 no, uh, he, Jefferson, uh, was bragging about the fact that they had, he had shrunk the government

00:22:12.860 when he was a president. And at the time the government was minimal. It didn't exist practically.

00:22:18.140 And he was pretty much against the idea of expanding the powers of government. And now

00:22:22.780 you have this ideology proposing that the government has to intervene everywhere. And on top of that,

00:22:28.220 you have the woke movement, which is a sort of totalitarian ideology that is, you know,

00:22:33.980 corrupting everything from the humanities, which are completely lost, I would say to, uh,

00:22:39.340 hard sciences. You can't, you can't even do physics now without having concern for diversity in your

00:22:47.340 team. If the results will offend or not certain groups and so on and so forth. This is insane.

00:22:53.980 What's going on. It's, it's really the decline of the West. And I'm very worried about this.

00:22:57.660 We see, uh, one of the most recent things, I think to your point in the news is this, uh,

00:23:03.660 frivolous lawsuit against, uh, I believe it's against SpaceX because, uh, SpaceX has not, uh, hired enough,

00:23:12.060 uh, uh, asylum seekers or, you know, foreign nationals. And so now SpaceX is being sued and

00:23:19.980 it's no longer about, it's no longer about the product, the rockets and the propulsion and the

00:23:25.500 innovation and the adaptation that you talk about in the book. And now it's more, well,

00:23:29.900 what does your workforce look like? And that has nothing to do necessarily with creating a better

00:23:36.540 product that's going to get us to the moon or space exploration or Mars, or even advancements

00:23:41.900 in technology that we as consumers will use in our everyday lives. Absolutely. You know,

00:23:46.780 the problem is that, you know, the United States is, it's a nation that was founded on the idea of

00:23:52.940 moral equality. That means that everyone, all men are created equal. Basically that means we have the

00:23:58.620 same rights. Yeah. And, and so the, uh, natural outcome of that is institutional, institutional

00:24:06.460 arrangements, uh, that guarantee equality before the law, equal treatment. Right. But the problem is

00:24:14.140 that in order to have a free society, you need to believe that the important unit is the individual

00:24:20.780 and not collective groups. Like, um, so you are an individual with your own, um, character and I

00:24:28.860 judge you, but I can judge you by the content of your character and your actions. But the woke movement,

00:24:34.860 what, what has, um, achieved is to convince many people that the important, um, thing is that,

00:24:43.100 I mean, the color of your skin, your genitalia, uh, your, your, whatever, you know, your, um,

00:24:49.740 sexual orientation, all of those things. And why did they do that? Because they, they have fallen

00:24:57.180 to what is called identity politics. The politics of identity means that you, uh, create certain

00:25:04.300 groups that have contingent, um, qualities like the color of the skin, uh, sexual orientations, what I,

00:25:11.660 what I, what I just explained, and you conceive them as being in existential opposition with other

00:25:19.020 groups. So straights against, uh, gays and then white people against all the rest and so on.

00:25:26.300 And when you have this worldview institutionalized, you cannot have equality before the law.

00:25:33.340 And so SpaceX can't really hire people anymore based on their qualifications and their merits,

00:25:39.900 because that would assume that you are evaluating people for their, um, abilities and not for the color

00:25:47.260 of their skin, their social condition, their background, and so on. And that's incompatible

00:25:54.140 with the expectations of an identitarian sort of mindset, which would tell you, you need to have

00:26:00.860 women, you need to have black people, you need to have Latinos and so on. And, and, and it's a

00:26:06.380 never ending story because you can always go further, you know, down the road and say, why don't you have

00:26:12.780 overweighted people in your, in your, in your, in your team. And then all institutions become politicized

00:26:19.260 and then they don't serve the purpose that they are, they have been created to, uh, for, which is,

00:26:24.060 uh, in the case of SpaceX, you know, to get to Mars or whatever, they, they become tools for, um, power agenda,

00:26:32.460 which is promoted by the left. Um, and it has to do with, um, the, this forced diversity, forced

00:26:41.340 inclusion, which is everything, but real diversity and real inclusion because they celebrate the color

00:26:47.500 of your skin as long as you don't vote for Trump. Right. I mean, if, if you think differently from

00:26:53.100 everyone else, then you are also not invited despite the fact that you are a black or Latino

00:26:59.020 or something like, like, you know, a minority. And, um, and so diversity is okay. As long as

00:27:04.700 everyone thinks the same and you see that in universities, you see that everywhere. And that's

00:27:08.940 why I, I claim that the West is in decline because everything from sports to new classical music and

00:27:16.620 companies has become politicized and, uh, they have been corrupted by this agenda. That's what I was saying.

00:27:25.900 Right. If you have, if you have a laboratory at university in Harvard, let's say at Harvard,

00:27:32.620 and you don't have enough women, like you have a problem. They're not giving you the funds. They're

00:27:37.900 not giving you money for research because now that's a requirement if you want to get funds.

00:27:44.700 Uh, but what makes you think that because you have more diversity in your lab in terms of, of, uh,

00:27:50.380 you know, biological diversity, for example, right. Gender that would make it a better place to

00:27:57.260 discover anything like, like, is it cells are going to reveal themselves, uh, you know,

00:28:01.980 easy to have two women and one guy looking at them. I don't think so. So this is complete nonsense.

00:28:09.820 And, but it's, it is having, it's having disastrous effect all over, all over the institutions,

00:28:16.540 public and private institutions. Well, I mean, part of it is just speaking out of both

00:28:20.540 sides of your mouth. What do they call it? 1984, uh, uh, double speak, right? It's like,

00:28:24.700 you think about what is it? Yeah. The, uh, double, yeah. The, uh, or well with the,

00:28:32.140 having two contradictory ideas up the same. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's double.

00:28:35.820 Yeah. So here's one right here. You mentioned it yourself. Uh, having, having enough women,

00:28:41.820 for example, at a university in order to secure grants. Well, the same people that would say you

00:28:47.260 need more women can't even tell me what a woman is. They can say that one person can define themselves

00:28:52.140 as a woman one day. And the next day define themselves as a, you know, a, a pansexual

00:28:57.660 kangaroo or something. It's like, well, how are you going to tell me you need more women,

00:29:01.420 but you can't even tell me what an actual woman is like that's speaking out of both sides of your

00:29:05.500 mouth. And you know, at this point, I can't help, but think it's only one of three things.

00:29:10.060 It's either ignorance, just being dumb or being malicious. And I don't know that we can do anything

00:29:17.980 about being dumb or malicious, uh, ignorance. Sure. We can educate, but outside of that has me

00:29:24.060 very concerned. You've, you've mentioned multiple times that you're concerned for the future of the

00:29:28.060 West, specifically the United States. What does this look like in your mind? If we continue down,

00:29:33.660 uh, with our, with our identity politics and with our, uh, economic catastrophes, what does this

00:29:40.860 actually look like in reality? If we continue down this path? I wouldn't rule out in the future,

00:29:46.620 if this continues our civil war in the United States, because, you know, the last time in us,

00:29:53.740 I mean, you, you had this, um, this fight for the soul of the nation was in the American civil war,

00:30:01.580 which was really the idea that no slavery was incompatible with the promises made by the founding

00:30:06.860 fathers. Which I think most people would agree with. Of course, it's absolutely true. There's no

00:30:12.860 question about that. But now you have this, um, totalitarian left, um, woke people telling you

00:30:22.460 that the, the idea of equality before the law, which is, you know, what the civil war was about,

00:30:30.220 it was equality before the law, equality for everyone, um, is racist in itself, in its essence.

00:30:38.140 It's, it's a part of the narrative and the power structures created by white men in order to

00:30:45.500 marginalize the rest. And how do they, uh, demonstrate this? Well, they tell you, look at the

00:30:52.940 numbers of African Americans who are, you know, um, not, uh, I mean, being, being very, uh, left behind,

00:31:02.220 I mean, who are being left behind or, or so. And they tell you that's because of systemic racism.

00:31:08.380 And how do you fix systemic racism, which is baked into the constitution in, into the traditional

00:31:14.460 institutions in the United States? Well, you have to, you have to make a revolution. That's

00:31:19.420 basically what you have to do. You have to get away with the American constitution. You have to get

00:31:23.180 away with the idea of equality before the law. You have to start introducing all of these, of course,

00:31:28.460 affirmative actions, which are already old in, in the United States. That's, that's not recent thing,

00:31:33.500 but now you are having universities that are, you know, dropping, uh, the GREs or, uh, you know,

00:31:41.420 standardized tests in order to have more inclusion. And then you have people fighting each other.

00:31:46.780 You had the Asian American community suing Harvard because they are being discriminated

00:31:51.820 massively against in order to favor Latinos and black people. This is a disgrace. This is not the

00:31:57.500 spirit of the United States. So I can easily imagine that if everything becomes politicized at some

00:32:03.100 point, people will want to have their country back and, and, and, and others will want to destroy it.

00:32:09.260 Yeah. Yeah. On the left. And, and that's really dangerous to me. If, if, if there is not, if the,

00:32:14.940 if the democratic party does not react against this woke nonsense and starts becoming more reasonable,

00:32:23.740 then I believe that, uh, the reaction will be also much more aggressive. And at some point you will have,

00:32:29.900 uh, a national crisis and that's the worst, the worst scenario that you can, it's a nightmare basically.

00:32:35.980 Yeah. Well, of course, you know, millions of people will die if that's the case. Uh, it's,

00:32:40.940 I've thought about that with regards to civil war. And I think some of the cases against it are,

00:32:45.500 you know, what does, what does that even look like geographically? You take the civil war, uh,

00:32:50.220 and it was essentially drawn North versus South. Right. But that, that doesn't take place today.

00:32:56.060 That's different. I mean, my, my neighbor, you know, could, could be, uh, a leftist and I could be

00:33:01.580 ultra conservative, uh, or, or, or vice versa. And so we're so intermingled and intertwined that

00:33:07.660 I don't think there's a, a clearly defined geographical line where that civil war takes

00:33:11.980 place, which has me wondering, I don't know that you're wrong. I just wonder what that actually would

00:33:17.260 look like because of how mixed we are geographically. Yeah. I'm not entirely sure, but, uh, if you take a

00:33:26.140 look at the voting records in the United States, you can see that Democrats are winning in the, uh,

00:33:31.420 in the coasts basically. And, uh, yeah, cities and all the rest is, is basically red. So there is a

00:33:39.580 huge divide between the elites and the urban type of population and the rest of the, of the, uh,

00:33:46.300 American citizens. And, uh, and, and it's so, the mindset is so different that you can have

00:33:54.860 someone like Hillary saying these people are all deplorables, right? And then you have the

00:34:00.620 arrogance of the coast elites, um, telling them that they are all racist and xenophobes and this

00:34:07.820 and that. And of course, that's not, that's not really helping. And then you have, for instance,

00:34:13.180 someone who, who has, uh, studied this in great detail, which is the sociologist, um, Charles

00:34:19.740 Murray, he wrote this book coming apart. And, and you can see that in the United States, you have

00:34:28.300 now, um, uh, a huge divide that had never happened before in terms of social classes,

00:34:36.140 in terms of ideas, in terms of values, in terms of everything. And so, um, even,

00:34:43.660 even in terms of politics, people are trying to move to places where they don't find

00:34:51.260 people who think differently anymore. I mean, of course you have everywhere,

00:34:54.540 Republicans and Democrats, and that's, that's for sure. But if you take a look at the large numbers,

00:34:59.900 I know many people who have left, uh, California because they don't like the politics of the place

00:35:04.140 and they don't like to be surrounded by these, uh, inquisitors who are, you know, trying to,

00:35:09.340 to, to cancel you all the time. Uh, and I'm sure there are millions of cases like that. Um,

00:35:16.460 if I had, if I had to move to the United States and I'm in the process of probably doing so,

00:35:21.500 I would move to Florida where I'm right now, because I can't really express my free opinion

00:35:28.220 if I was living in New York among the elites there or in, or in California and LA or something

00:35:33.580 like, unless I'm in a very close circle of friends. And so, um, this totalitarian mindset

00:35:39.500 of the woke movement, I think, of course, is creating a reaction against it, which is also

00:35:44.700 strong and it will make it more difficult to, to be, to, to live together. And, and, and I've seen

00:35:54.220 this idea. I don't remember which politician proposed it, but like, let's, let's, let's end the union

00:36:00.540 and have Democrats living in some States and Republicans living in other States.

00:36:05.980 It's happening. It's happening naturally, I think. And the question is, can you, can you sustain the

00:36:11.420 union in the long run? If you have such divisions, I'm not sure. All right, man, I'm going to take a

00:36:18.220 break from the conversation very quickly. I got to ask, are you feeling stuck? I mean, I talk with

00:36:23.180 hundreds, if not thousands of men each and every week, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that

00:36:30.460 many of them are feeling trapped and stuck in horrible relationships, uh, dead end jobs,

00:36:36.820 basically just a life of complacency and mediocrity. Uh, unfortunately, way too many of these men

00:36:42.680 attempt to pull themselves out of the waking nightmare. Uh, they found themselves in, but that

00:36:48.220 doesn't work. It's impossible to pull yourself out of a place that you currently are. And what you need

00:36:53.360 is someone else from a different perspective on sure footing to offer a hand so that you can begin

00:36:58.700 to change your current reality. And that is what we do inside of our brotherhood of men. We work

00:37:03.900 together to help each other out. We don't offer handouts because that doesn't help either. We offer

00:37:08.520 hand ups. And that means that you're going to have to work as hard, if not harder than the man who is

00:37:16.040 working to serve you. So if you're ready to put in the work and just need an assist along the way,

00:37:21.620 we have a proven, a proven framework and a solid network of men who will band with you along the

00:37:27.620 way. So I'd invite you to join us in less than 10 days in the iron council. And you can do that at

00:37:34.380 order of man.com slash iron council again, order of man.com slash iron council. Do that right after

00:37:41.540 the show for now. Let's get back to it with Axel. Yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't think it's,

00:37:46.600 I don't think it's possible at the rate that we're going, you know, we've talked a lot about

00:37:51.360 different political ideologies that fall outside of the scope of economics, but you chose to write

00:37:59.400 this book and you study a lot on economics, especially these 15 principles that people can

00:38:03.600 apply is part of the reason. And I don't want to lead you at all, but I'm wondering if part of the

00:38:08.540 reason is because this is the entry point to helping people understand, and then it permeates other

00:38:13.620 facets of our lives, or is it just a small piece of the puzzle that's separate from other areas that

00:38:20.000 we also need to address? I think, I think it's a, it's a crucial part of the battle against tyranny and

00:38:28.280 against ever-growing governments, because I'm absolutely convinced that economic, you know,

00:38:36.180 illiteracy is the main reason why people, or one of the main reasons why people tend to support

00:38:42.340 big, uh, government politicians and populists and socialists and demagogues. And, um,

00:38:49.580 are you saying because those individuals, you said economic literacy, but some of, well,

00:38:56.100 some of the wealthiest people on the planet support these insane ideologies. So I'm, I'm not sure if

00:39:02.700 it's economic literacy.

00:39:03.740 And, and we can't forget that socialism was invented by the elites, just like communism and, uh, well,

00:39:10.600 communism and socialism is more or less the same and fascism. Uh, yeah, I mean, that's, that's

00:39:16.840 true. And that deserves, deserves an explanation, but I think it has to do with the fact that many wealthy

00:39:23.960 people, and I know some do not necessarily understand economics, no, no, like if you ride a bike, that

00:39:33.300 doesn't mean that, you know, the physical laws that enables you, enable you to ride the bike. So many

00:39:39.220 people have made a lot of money and some feel guilty because they have a lot of money. And so they

00:39:44.240 start supporting, uh, BLM or other NGOs that promote really, um, very, very toxic ideologies.

00:39:54.700 And so that's part of virtue signaling, uh, it, it, it has to do a lot with virtue signaling. And,

00:40:00.720 and this is the classic case with Hollywood stars who are communists and Marxists and live

00:40:04.640 in their $30 million LA mansions, you know, which is a completely hypocritical thing to do.

00:40:11.980 And they speak about inequality and, and, and, and, and they support people like Chavez, you know,

00:40:18.140 Oliver Stone's working Chavez. And so, uh, it's, it's really insane, but this is nothing new in

00:40:23.540 history. I mean, we, we had Felix Weil, who was a very rich German guy who, who started the

00:40:30.940 Institut für Sozialwissenschaft in Germany, which it was basically created in order to transform

00:40:38.520 Germany in the 1920s into a Marxist communist state. And that's the, the epicenter for many

00:40:45.840 of the ideas that you have right now in the United States, because also a lot of these thinkers like

00:40:51.260 Herbert Marcuse and, uh, Theodor Adorno and Horkheimer and others came to the United States.

00:40:57.080 When the Nazis came to power, they, they fled to the United States and brought the ideas with them.

00:41:00.880 And, and so this is the, this is critical theory. This comes from the Frankfurt school and is this

00:41:07.580 cultural Marxism basically that took over universities a year later. And also with the

00:41:12.980 help of the French thinkers like Michel Foucault and Jacques Serrat. And this, uh, my point is that

00:41:18.420 these people were funded by very wealthy George Soros type of tycoons, right? And, and, and one could

00:41:24.860 ask, uh, uh, oneself, why is George Soros funding so many destructive initiatives? And, and, and in

00:41:33.440 his case, I don't think it's ignorance into his case. I think he's really much a person who hates

00:41:38.300 the West. That's, that's my, it's malicious. Sure. I think it's evil. Right. And that's, that does

00:41:44.700 exist. I mean, if you study the history of communism, it was evil. It was really, truly evil. And many people,

00:41:50.520 uh, you know, fell for, for this thing and, um, and they endorsed it and they supported it. And many

00:41:57.340 rich people did that. Even, even, even people from, from the Catholic church and others, our Pope,

00:42:03.380 the Pope that we have now, the Catholic church, he's a, he's a communist. I mean, he's socialist. He

00:42:08.360 said that the true Christians were the communists. He actually said that. And so, um, I mean, you,

00:42:15.800 you have this ideology, this worldviews, these religions that can really, uh, ruin everything.

00:42:21.340 And then it doesn't matter if you are wealthy or not. People will want to, you will have people

00:42:26.180 from all social conditions that, uh, will want to endorse these things. And also, as you said,

00:42:32.660 because of purchasingly, it's, it's really convenient. So you can, you don't get your privileges

00:42:38.380 examined very, um, you know, carefully, uh, by the woke, uh, mob, uh, to endorse some woke causes

00:42:48.360 and say, oh, I care so much about diversity or you have, you know, Megan Fox having all the,

00:42:54.120 all her children being trans. I mean, what are the odds? Three children and the three of them

00:42:58.520 are trans. I mean, this is, this is pure virtual signaling. This is pure. I'm, I'm so cool.

00:43:04.380 Yeah. I, I go with this, uh, uh, uh, trend and, and, and, and, and I'm, I'm better than the rest.

00:43:10.780 And this need to, to prove that you are more or less superior to others, it's intoxicating

00:43:16.040 and, and, and enables you to cancel the rest because you claim you are, you are better person,

00:43:22.740 not only, you know, more famous or wealthier, you're also a better person that gives you the

00:43:29.560 right to shut everything, everything else down, everything, everyone else down. So

00:43:34.060 yeah, it's, it's a very complex situation. And I think, uh, if the reaction is not really strong,

00:43:40.060 there is no way that we are going to, to save our, our, our hemisphere. And, and, and the United

00:43:46.380 States is like, it's a key battleground. If we lose the U S we lose the whole world.

00:43:51.140 Hmm. Yeah. I, I, uh, I think there's also an inherent danger in speaking up and speaking out,

00:43:58.500 you know, there, there, you will be shunned, you will be doxxed, you will be canceled. You will be,

00:44:03.920 uh, hurt in the wallet, sometimes even violently. I think about with regards to your comments about

00:44:08.820 transgenderism, there's the, uh, author Abigail Schreier with the book, uh, irreversible damage,

00:44:14.200 you know, that like she took so much criticism, so much heat. And that book has just been blasted for

00:44:20.720 credible work that's supported scientifically. And, and yet it cannot be tolerated, uh, because it goes

00:44:31.600 against these ideologies. Yeah. That's why I say this is a totalitarian movement. We have to be

00:44:36.720 very careful because at the essence of every totalitarian movement, you have, um, you know,

00:44:44.900 epistemic relativism. That means the idea that there is no objective truth. And, and, and so science

00:44:52.560 doesn't matter anymore because it's not about arguments based on reason and logic and evidence.

00:45:00.780 It's about power and it's only about that. And, and, and so I I've read the book. I think it's a

00:45:09.120 great book and, uh, and we have to say these things. I mean, recently Richard Dawkins with whom I have,

00:45:15.360 have had, you know, long conversations a couple of years ago, uh, was also claiming that biological

00:45:24.320 sex is real and that you can be polite. And of course, you know, treat someone who believes who

00:45:32.500 is a woman and being a biological male as a woman, you can do that. But what you can't do is to deny

00:45:40.140 the underlying biological, the reality. And this, this pretense that there is no objective reality

00:45:46.700 is the problem because we could agree that, I mean, let's, let's be, let's be nice and kind and,

00:45:54.880 and, and, and don't really be aggressive towards people or impolite, you know, with people who

00:46:00.320 believe they are something different. Okay. That's one thing, but it's also your right not to accept it,

00:46:05.200 but, but you can, we could agree on that. Yeah. But what is, what is really, uh, the problem

00:46:11.640 is that is, is this, is this, uh, claim that there is no objective reality, that everything

00:46:19.400 is a construction of the mind basically, or, uh, and the self does not exist because in order

00:46:25.600 for you to create a self, right, you have to exist first. So you cannot create a self ex nihilo

00:46:34.100 for out of nothing. You know what I mean? So, so this, this idea is also idiotic because

00:46:39.500 you have to exist as an individual in order to have an identity. You can't have an identity before

00:46:46.160 you are an individual. And if you're an individual, a member of a human species, you are, uh, you have

00:46:52.560 a head, you have bones, you have cells, and you have chromosomes, chromosomes, right? And you can be

00:46:59.100 male or female. That's it. That's it. There is no other alternative. I mean, there are some cases.

00:47:06.300 Okay. But as a general rule, there are no, there are no, there are no, those are, those are medical

00:47:11.680 anomalies. Those, those don't, that does not represent a separate class or gender or sex of an

00:47:17.180 individual. Absolutely. But my point is you cannot define and say I'm a woman, right? Uh, because,

00:47:25.020 because you already exist before you have claimed that you are a woman. And that means you are a

00:47:32.200 reality that is independent from your thoughts, your, uh, your thoughts about yourself, right? I,

00:47:39.140 I, I could claim I'm black, but I'm not black, right? I mean, it's the same thing or that I'm 15

00:47:43.920 years old and I'm not 15 years old. And actually this deconstruction, because that's the way,

00:47:49.920 that's the word that was used in philosophy, in the French philosophy, postmodernist, uh, you know,

00:47:55.020 uh, kind of, um, mindset, the deconstruction of the structures leads to chaos. And that's

00:48:01.160 why now you are seeing all this chaos in, in women's sports, for instance. And now there

00:48:06.540 are some States and countries and organizations that are banning trans men from, uh, this,

00:48:12.660 uh, female, uh, women, women's competitions, because, because of course, if you allow trans

00:48:19.500 athletes, then you will have chaos within the, uh, the female, um, uh, communities that, that athletes,

00:48:29.520 athlete communities, uh, they will not be able to win anything else anymore. And then it will collapse

00:48:36.060 because which women will, will want to go and compete against biological males, right? I mean,

00:48:42.280 if this becomes a trend, a trend, no one will want to do that. Yeah, of course. And so, and so,

00:48:48.200 and then, and then you have men claiming to be babies, grownups. Have you seen that?

00:48:54.400 No, I, I, I, I don't doubt that, but I haven't seen that.

00:48:58.260 Yeah. They're claiming like 50 year old man dressed, I mean, with diapers and dressed like babies,

00:49:04.420 claiming that there are babies and they perceive themselves, you know, as babies. And now I,

00:49:10.820 I, I, I, I was in Puerto Rico recently giving some, some lectures and I was told that there was,

00:49:16.220 um, uh, uh, a student at, uh, it was a school boy or girl. I don't remember exactly, but who believed

00:49:22.760 to be, um, um, a cat and she went to school. I think it was like 12 years old or 10 dressed

00:49:33.420 with a cat, uh, type of, uh, costume. And the, um, and the, um, you know, the other children were

00:49:43.180 forced into accepting her as a cat. Like imagine the confusion that that creates in your mind

00:49:48.960 as a child. And, and the professor, the teacher, the teachers were okay with it. I don't know what

00:49:54.260 the parents were thinking, but, uh, it's, they were not thinking. And, but I think it's also

00:50:00.800 criminal because you have to, or, uh, you have to give, uh, children, uh, clear, a clear message

00:50:09.240 and clear standards because they are not capable of doing the sophisticated analysis that we grownups

00:50:15.360 can. That's why, for instance, fairy tales have these very clear ideas of good and evil. It's,

00:50:21.800 it's, it's, it's, there are no, there are no gray areas. It's, it's, it's black and white,

00:50:26.320 right? Because children need that. They are not in a position to, to do this, uh, more nuanced

00:50:33.940 approach and to have this, uh, you know, most adults aren't capable of doing it. Exactly. Exactly.

00:50:41.000 That's, that's what, and they are also destroying fairy tales. I mean, uh, you know, the snow white now

00:50:46.060 with, with Disney, the last, uh, production that they are, they're doing right now, it's, it's a

00:50:51.420 complete perversion of the original Grimm's tale. It has nothing to do with the original. And I tell

00:50:56.900 you, I grew up in a German family, so I know about this stuff. Um, and, and it's really harming also,

00:51:03.020 uh, children because you are depriving them of, of, of a source, uh, of knowledge that is very useful

00:51:12.120 for them in order to develop, uh, sense, uh, as a strong sense of morality and fairy tales

00:51:18.740 help you do that. Uh, but if you start woking it up, then, then, then you lose it, you lose

00:51:26.360 it. It's, it's, it's, it's perverted. And maybe you achieve, I think of like fairy, you

00:51:32.420 know, like Hansel and Gretel. Right. And it's like, you teach a kid, don't go with strangers

00:51:36.100 into the forest. That's probably a good principle that kids should know. But all of a sudden,

00:51:39.760 if, if, you know, the, the, the witch is painted as, as a victim and, you know, she's actually

00:51:45.900 a good person, but she lures kids into, you know, because she's a pedophile and that's

00:51:50.600 normalized. Well, that might be an issue for kids to hear that and think that that's acceptable

00:51:54.260 and okay. Well, you know, pedophilia is actually a big thing and it's coming back into fashion

00:51:59.360 in, in, in the 60s. I hate the way you said that. I, and I'm not criticizing you. It just,

00:52:04.240 the, the way that, the way that that is said is just so it's, it's, it's horrific. It's

00:52:09.180 horrific. Yeah. But you know, it's a natural result of this woke ideology, because if you

00:52:14.680 really believe that there is no objective truth and that all social norms are just forms

00:52:20.680 of discourse that, you know, have the aim of, um, exerting, uh, oppression by some groups

00:52:31.400 of people over other groups of people, then the idea that, I don't, I mean, that sex can

00:52:39.420 only happen between consenting adults is in itself nothing else than a form of narrative

00:52:46.340 that is competing against other narratives, uh, in order to, um, consolidate the, um, power

00:52:54.520 of certain type of, of people, which are, you know, straight, white, or not even necessarily

00:53:01.120 white, but straight adults. And so the pedophiles are being discriminated and oppressed, uh, you

00:53:10.300 know, if you follow this logic. And, and so now you don't call them pedophiles anymore.

00:53:15.060 You call them minor attracted person, in order to normalize it. But, but, and, and, and this

00:53:22.240 is really interesting because one of the main philosophers and thinkers that developed this

00:53:27.400 idea, who was Michel Foucault, was himself a pedophile. He would go, he was a French intellectual,

00:53:34.000 very famous, uh, in the sixties, seventies, even eighties. He, he, he was, um, homosexual who,

00:53:41.180 who, uh, would go to, to Africa, to Morocco and he, he would pay children to have sex with

00:53:49.020 him, poor children, poor, poor African children, children, and, and, and he would take them to

00:53:53.880 a cemetery and, and he would sex, have sex with them in the cemetery. And, and, and he developed

00:53:59.520 the theory that, um, the medical establishment had nothing. I mean, he had developed a sort of

00:54:09.120 narrative in order to control people, people's lives, people like himself, who, who also ended

00:54:16.000 up in a, in a mental institutions, institution at some point. And he took this to such an extreme

00:54:21.620 that he criticized the message given by the medical community to the homosexual community

00:54:28.440 to use, um, you know, protection when they had sex in order to prevent the spread of AIDS.

00:54:34.000 And, and, and he said, this was just another form of exerting power over them and discriminating

00:54:40.240 against them. And he died of AIDS in the end. Uh, so, so, so this is completely irrational.

00:54:48.000 This is, this is completely insane. And this is the same philosophy that you are seeing, uh,

00:54:55.140 right now, um, advancing at schools and, uh, media and other parts, sexualizing minors.

00:55:03.980 Not only in the U S also Latin America and Europe, uh, and Europe has a very dark past

00:55:09.820 with this. Like Germany would have in the seventies experiments with children where the parents,

00:55:16.480 and this is insane. Like, you know, when people say, what are the parents thinking? Like they

00:55:20.780 are not thinking, well, it was the same in the sixties and seventies in Germany, they would

00:55:24.700 have kindergartens where they would, uh, and these were all educated people coming out from

00:55:29.600 universities. I mean, only people coming out from universities would do something like this.

00:55:33.620 I think, uh, where they would sexualize children and bring them to have sex between them and

00:55:40.020 also with adults. And they would question if the, if it was a good idea to have sex with

00:55:46.180 their own children, because, you know, I mean, that was the point of, of, of, of, of lunacy

00:55:52.180 of this whole ideology, because once you get rid of the objective standards, objective truth

00:55:58.080 of anything or, or, or, or as a concept, what is the limit, right? If sexuality is nothing

00:56:05.360 but a convention, why can't you have sex with your own children? It's like who created this

00:56:11.320 convention? Ah, is the bourgeois society, the white, uh, straight men who, who want to criminalize

00:56:18.680 and marginalize the rest of people who are not like them. That's the concept. And, and they

00:56:23.580 would, they even signed a letter, Michel Foucault, Simone de Beauvoir, who is the mother of all

00:56:29.000 feminists, right? And, and, and from the whole queer movement today, even defending pedophiles

00:56:35.960 that were arrested in France in 1977 for having had sex with children. And they signed a letter,

00:56:42.860 all of these French intellectuals, dozens of them, uh, all of them rock stars at the time,

00:56:47.960 defending these people and claiming or arguing for the abolishment of, um, of, of, uh, consenting

00:56:55.100 laws, uh, of the, you know, uh, laws demanding that, you know, you have to be 17 or 18 or whatever

00:57:02.400 in order to have sex with someone. And this is gaining traction again. It's insane. Yeah.

00:57:10.720 What are, what are like with, with regard, we've talked a lot about the issues and I think,

00:57:14.860 you know, shedding light on these subjects because it can't exist in darkness. If more people are

00:57:19.260 talking about this, I mean, you're talking a lot about it with your research, with your book,

00:57:23.340 with economics specifically with regards to the book, but is the solution to then just continue

00:57:28.220 to talk about this, bring this to light, be vocal about it. And I would say be as vocal and active,

00:57:35.220 uh, as the, the social activists are there, there's gotta be a way to combat this. And it has to be with

00:57:41.180 doing things vocally and acting legislation, um, running for office, like all the things that we

00:57:46.380 can do. What, what are some of those suggestions that you would have?

00:57:48.980 I mean, this is a battle of ideas and it's a battle for the minds and hearts of people. And, and,

00:57:55.340 and I, I strongly recommend if, if the, uh, you know, viewers of your show have the, have the time,

00:58:03.220 um, to read Antonio Gramsci. Antonio Gramsci was the founder of the communist Italian party,

00:58:11.360 uh, in the 1920s. And he was the most little, little, uh, Marxist intellectual in the 20th century.

00:58:19.420 And he said that what you had to do was to take over institutions, to take over schools, churches,

00:58:26.660 and universities and media and so on, because it was not about the violent revolution against Lenin

00:58:34.660 and Marx. He argued, it's not so much about the violent revolution. It's about changing people,

00:58:41.000 how people think their minds and, and that you can achieve if you engage in what he called cultural

00:58:48.420 hegemony. And you create a discourse that is so, um, dominant in the public and private sphere,

00:58:56.220 even that convinces so many people that capitalism is wrong. And, uh, you know,

00:59:03.420 the institutions, the bourgeois institutions have to be overthrown, that the system will collapse by

00:59:08.740 itself. Once you destroy their, uh, its legitimacy in people's minds. And, and that's exactly what they

00:59:17.780 did with the long march through the institutions and they took over universities. And I think that's

00:59:23.660 the, the, the, the origin of the crisis that we lost the universities and they are now controlled

00:59:29.660 by, uh, you know, bureaucrats and professors who have, uh, this totalitarian tendencies. And then

00:59:38.760 you go to Harvard or Stanford or whatever, and then you, you go to other positions of influence

00:59:45.460 in the media and Disney companies. And then the, the, the, the, the effect, the influence of these ideas

00:59:54.460 go far beyond the department of humanities at the universities and sciences. Now everyone is forced

01:00:02.280 to take some training, microaggression training courses at Stanford, for instance. This is insane.

01:00:10.340 Uh, and it becomes, and this is, uh, this is very important. It becomes part of the, uh, um, general

01:00:18.460 culture at some point because the humanities, you know, tend to be relatively useless. If you want to

01:00:25.080 get a job and you have a degree in philosophy or literature or whatever, it's not very good. If you

01:00:30.900 have that, it's better to have engineering and engineering degree. But the, the, the, the, the fact is

01:00:36.140 that the humanities define the soul of a nation. All the questions about morality, what is wrong

01:00:45.660 and what is right are not scientific questions. These are philosophical questions and, and, and, and a

01:00:53.580 culture reinforces the answers to these questions through movies, through literature, through

01:01:01.120 philosophical books, uh, entertainment, music, music, all of that. And, and, and, and, but you need

01:01:09.220 this art, of course, you need the group of people who are thinking about these issues who are mostly

01:01:16.920 at universities, not only, but mostly at universities to give credit to these ideas and to develop these

01:01:22.740 ideas. And the West is basically, um, a philosophical achievement. The idea of the individual, which

01:01:30.880 which, which emerged from Christianity, uh, that we, we deserve equal rights, uh, which is in the, in the

01:01:36.780 declaration of independence in the United States. This is what made this, uh, civilization so prosperous.

01:01:44.400 And so when you lose the, the humanities, uh, you lose the, the fight, you lose the battle

01:01:50.240 because, because you lose the, the case for, um, for, for what you consider is good, for what we view

01:02:00.360 as, as, as good. And what we consider evil becomes what most people, or a lot of people consider,

01:02:06.760 uh, consider appropriate. That's why I think it's so dangerous when you, when you start saying,

01:02:12.660 oh, Shakespeare, he was just a representative of the bourgeois class and the white, uh, heterosexual

01:02:17.580 oppression of everyone else, which is what, by the way, are teaching you at many universities.

01:02:23.380 So they can tell you, you know, any, you know, African-American writer or Indian or Latino writer

01:02:32.060 is as good as Shakespeare. There is no hierarchy. It's all a social construction. Yeah. To make you

01:02:37.380 feel more inclusive. Uh, okay. Everyone can be like Shakespeare. It's not true. Shakespeare is superior

01:02:43.020 to everyone else, but you cannot make that claim if you don't believe there is a truth, an objective

01:02:47.760 standard for measurement. Right. Yeah. So, so that's the problem, uh, with universities. And I would

01:02:54.900 encourage everyone who is giving money to universities. I, I, I recently talked to one who is a big donor

01:03:00.000 at one of the Ivy league schools. I told him, don't give them more money. I mean, why do they continue

01:03:05.480 supporting the destruction of, of the United States and the American, you know, uh, they call it an

01:03:14.060 experiment, but it's a very successful one. And it's, it's now being attacked from, from, from

01:03:18.620 everywhere. Like, uh, you have also the rivalry with China, you have Russia, you have, but the main

01:03:24.780 problem is inside. It's a, it's a people trying to undermine it from the inside and the Colin

01:03:30.800 Copernicus of the world and all, all of these guys who, who would claim that the flag represents

01:03:38.360 something immoral. Which is, I mean, so it's so it's, it's lunacy. It's so ironic. And an individual

01:03:44.960 like that, who's been the recipient and beneficiary of this amazing, incredible social experiment

01:03:51.320 would basically spit and stomp all over the very thing that allowed him to progress the way that he

01:03:57.620 has. Yeah. And, and as I, again, I mean, he's, um, you know, a sports person, he's very famous,

01:04:05.260 but where did he, uh, get these ideas? Because Martin Luther King didn't think like that.

01:04:12.480 He was very much an admirer of the founding fathers and he was claiming, you know, the promises they

01:04:18.220 made in the Declaration of Independence, in the constitution, they have not been fulfilled for

01:04:22.820 everyone. So let's, let's move forward with this. But they would say like Frederick Douglass,

01:04:27.820 they would claim and argue that, uh, you know, that these were great ideas.

01:04:35.260 But Colin Capernaum comes now and say, and says, no, you know, this is an oppressive system. This is

01:04:41.700 horrible. The flag is, uh, represents, uh, you know, oppression and slavery. This is complete,

01:04:48.760 completely absurd. And it's, it's completely against what Luther King and Frederick Douglass,

01:04:53.500 who actually did something for black people in the United States, right? Uh, would argue. I mean,

01:05:01.140 they would be happy to see the huge progress that has been made, uh, over the last century in this

01:05:09.500 country, even over the last decades. And there is no society with more freedom and more respect for

01:05:14.460 individual rights, I think, than the United States and more diverse at the same time.

01:05:18.360 Um, and so, um, I think it's very, um, I mean, sometimes I get a little angry because I, I grew

01:05:28.840 up in Latin America. I know what failed nations look like. And I travel all, all over Latin America,

01:05:35.800 you know, uh, giving conferences and lectures and also Europe. But, uh, I mean, the United States is the

01:05:43.720 place everyone wants to go. Why, why is that? And, and, uh, and it's not because it's evil. It's

01:05:50.680 because you have better opportunities, you know, and it's a, it is a better place than the rest of

01:05:54.960 the world. That's the reality. And I'm not even an American. I'm saying that because I know it's

01:05:58.800 true, right? Um, the city upon a hill, when John Winthrop came with the settlers here to, it is a city

01:06:07.080 upon a hill and we all admire, uh, the United States. And we, and if we lose the United States,

01:06:11.940 we will not even have a reference point for the rest of the world. And that will be a new age of

01:06:19.820 darkness, a horrible one, because I don't think we can solve the vacuum with China or Russia or

01:06:27.140 India or, you know, in Switzerland, it's too small for that. So, yeah.

01:06:35.180 Well, Axel, I, I appreciate all of your efforts and all of your work and your conversation with me

01:06:39.520 today. I mean, all of this is so enlightening. I actually expected the conversation would take

01:06:44.040 a different track, um, talking more specifically about economics, but I'm really glad that we went

01:06:48.600 down this, this route because such needed conversations, um, and guys can always go pick

01:06:53.840 up a copy of the book and read the book on their own, you know? So, which I would highly suggest they

01:06:58.500 do. And you talk about it being, uh, a pinnacle component of the entire conversation that we're having

01:07:05.580 here. Why don't you let the guys know, as we wind things down, where to go, where to connect with

01:07:09.480 you, where to learn more about what you're up to. And of course, pick up a copy of the book as well.

01:07:13.560 Yes. So the book is on Amazon and it has been recommended by some of the best economists in

01:07:18.320 the United States. So I'm very happy. Um, like Deidre McCloskey, Casey Molina, Chicago University,

01:07:24.500 and many others. And, uh, they, they can buy it there. And also at the website of Republic books,

01:07:30.280 they can find it. Um, and, uh, I have an Instagram, which is at Axel Kaiser B. Um,

01:07:38.140 it's Kaiser with like Kaiser Permanente. It's the same, the same spelling and Axel with E not

01:07:42.960 like Axel Rose. It's, it's, it's, it has, yeah, it doesn't have any, it's a Axel with E and, and B

01:07:48.400 from Barent, which is my second last name. And also at Twitter, I am at Axel Kaiser. And so they can

01:07:54.120 follow me on, on social media and, and, and yeah, and I'd be happy if they make some comments

01:07:59.180 about the book there. Awesome. Well, we'll sync everything up again. Appreciate your work

01:08:04.220 and all the, all the efforts you're putting forth. Hopefully this gets into some ears that need to

01:08:08.620 hear it and we can start to, uh, turn the tide, so to speak. I appreciate you. Thanks for joining

01:08:13.260 me today. Thank you, Ryan. All right. There you go, guys. My conversation with Axel Kaiser. I hope you

01:08:20.440 enjoyed it. Uh, we talked a little bit about his book and a lot about other issues, but many of them

01:08:25.380 needed to be talked about. And I'm glad that I could do that with someone who is such as well-versed

01:08:28.940 as Axel would. I would highly encourage you to follow him over on social media with hundreds

01:08:33.560 of thousands of other people who are following along with his mission and his work. Check out

01:08:37.820 his book, which is called the street economist. And, uh, also take a screenshot and tag him,

01:08:44.100 tag myself, let everybody know what you're listening to guys. If we're going to change the tide of this

01:08:48.980 culture, whether we're just talking about masculinity in general, we're talking about economics or whatever

01:08:53.260 it may be, then what we have to do is begin to speak up and we have to share what we know,

01:08:57.800 share what we're learning, share the resources that we have. And I'm asking you to share this

01:09:01.720 resource with other men who are in your corner, who want to learn, who want to grow, who want to

01:09:05.740 get better. All right. That's my ask of you. Also make sure you check out the iron council,

01:09:10.120 which opens up September 15th. So we're about 10 days out and you can check that out at

01:09:15.440 order of man.com slash iron council. I'm going to send an email the night before we open

01:09:19.480 to those of you who want to be notified. So you can get in there before anybody else.

01:09:23.860 Uh, and you can do that again at order of man.com slash iron council. All right, guys,

01:09:28.640 I hope you enjoyed the conversation. If there's other conversations you want me to have, whether

01:09:31.840 it's an interview with a certain person, uh, or a Friday field notes where just me or questions

01:09:36.980 that you have hit me up on Instagram at Ryan Mickler, send me an email, Ryan at order of man.com

01:09:42.000 and, uh, continue to share. All right, guys, we'll be back tomorrow for our ask me anything until then

01:09:48.140 go out there, take action and let's all become the men we are meant to be. Thank you for listening

01:09:52.600 to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you

01:09:57.520 were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - September 05, 2023

AXEL KAISER ｜ How the West Was Lost

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