Order of Man - Be Intentional, Keep it Together, and Leave Your Legacy

00:00:00.000 I could be gone today, and that might be the last thing that I say to him that he'll remember.

00:00:05.600 I would say when it comes to leaving your legacy, make sure you're telling the people in your life

00:00:09.980 how you feel about them, what they mean to you, how proud you are of them. Not just your kids,

00:00:13.960 but your wife and your friends and business partners and everybody. Just tell people how

00:00:19.140 you feel. I think that's going to go a long way because you know what? When you think about

00:00:23.480 the people you loved, don't you remember how they made you feel? Isn't that what you remember the

00:00:28.540 most? Kip, what's up, man? Great to see you today. Glad we could make this work as always.

00:00:34.520 Yeah, absolutely. Give us an update. You were traveling last week. You met up with some guys,

00:00:39.680 some Order of Man guys or a different event back East or in the Midwest.

00:00:43.520 Yeah, I was in St. Louis and yeah, there's a group called Save St. Louis and they run,

00:00:51.640 they do a lot of different things, but they run a men's group. Brett is his name,

00:00:56.900 runs a men's group called Man to Man and it's just something he wanted to start. It's very faith

00:01:01.800 and Christian based and he wanted to start and he brings speakers in once a month and gets all the

00:01:07.060 guys together above a coffee shop. There's this little cool event center above Omen Coffee in St.

00:01:11.760 Louis and we talked for about an hour and a half, just some brotherhood and talked about

00:01:19.360 biblical examples of manhood and how we can incorporate some of those principles in our own

00:01:25.320 life and they had 40, 50 guys there and usually it's local men they bring in. They've only done,

00:01:30.900 this is their third time and it's usually the last two have been local guys, but Brett's been a fan

00:01:36.400 and follower of the movement for some time. So he reached out months ago and I said, yeah, man,

00:01:40.920 let's do it. And so he invited me out there. I went and spoke and man, just had a really good time

00:01:46.060 with that crew. And then of course, just went to a blues game. Hockey is amazing. It's such a cool

00:01:51.280 sport. Uh, we saw, Oh, it's crazy. We saw the, um, uh, what's it called? It's like the cathedral

00:02:00.500 basilica or something in St. Louis. I think I might be butchering that. It is an incredible,

00:02:05.720 incredible, uh, church. It's just absolutely unbelievable. And then we went to some museums

00:02:11.860 and like, we were busy the whole time. It was a quick trip, but man, we had a great time.

00:02:15.400 St. Louis was pleasantly surprising. Like I, I didn't expect it to be horrible, but I had such

00:02:21.800 a much better time than even I thought I would. Yeah. Well, and this is a testament of like the

00:02:26.780 importance of guys listening to this podcast to like follow you. Cause things like this happen,

00:02:30.820 right? Like we, we actually both do this, but you do obviously way more than I do. And obviously you're

00:02:35.820 the, you're the attraction, but like when you travel, you often hop on social media and like, go, Hey,

00:02:41.300 I'm going to be in this area. Let's meet up. And the only way you guys are going to know about that

00:02:46.280 is, is by following Ryan on the, on the socials. So make sure to do that. Yeah. So that way you can

00:02:51.160 be in the know. Yeah. I've got some good plans. I'm going to be in Austin in December. I'm going to

00:02:56.720 be in Dallas in January. I'm going to be in Idaho, I think in January or February. So I'm going to be

00:03:01.880 doing a lot more traveling in the coming months and into next year. So yeah, make sure you stay tuned in.

00:03:06.860 Cause I, when I go do these things, I want to meet people who men who believe in what we're doing

00:03:12.520 or men who haven't been yet introduced to the movement and grow this thing from the ground up.

00:03:19.660 Absolutely. Well, should we get in some questions? Uh, we, you know, we've asked the Facebook group

00:03:24.560 as well as the iron council, you know, some questions around building legacy. We have

00:03:28.600 kind of legacy specific questions, but we have some generic ones. I mean, legacy is kind of a broad

00:03:34.000 term. So we'll give some grace to some of these questions. Yeah. We won't beat them up too bad.

00:03:39.320 Yeah. Still pretty good questions. So yeah, absolutely. Let's get after it. All right. Ian

00:03:43.540 Henritz, how do you go from not knowing anyone or being involved in any group such as a church and

00:03:50.200 others to making an impact on your community? I want to step up in life and be part of a community,

00:03:55.960 but I don't know where to start. I'm sure it's just me being scared and I need to stop overthinking it

00:04:03.100 and just do. Honestly, part of it is I'm not even sure where to go to get started or what to do.

00:04:11.620 I'm going to, I'm going to go ahead and respectfully disagree with Ian on that one.

00:04:16.220 You know where to go because you already said it like church and other organizations. You said it

00:04:21.040 in your question. Yeah. So look, I, I think you're, I think your assessment of being afraid

00:04:27.100 is spot on. I think your assessment of overthinking it is probably accurate. And it sounds like you

00:04:33.600 have the answers to your questions already, but let's, let's hash this out for anybody who's

00:04:38.040 listening and, and for Ian as well. Um, you, you first, the first thing you need to do is go where

00:04:43.080 the good men are. And there's three places in particular, broadly three places. And I'll tell

00:04:48.580 you what they are church. You already mentioned that go find a good church congregation. Those are good

00:04:53.160 men. They're trying to be better. They believe in morality, objective morality, and they're all

00:05:00.020 working towards a common goal. So church, uh, number two, the gym and the gym could be jujitsu.

00:05:06.860 It could be an actual gym. It could be any CrossFit gym, powerlifting gym, jujitsu, martial arts, karate,

00:05:14.020 whatever the gym, those guys there are working their bodies and their minds. They're disciplined.

00:05:19.040 They're committed. They want to improve their physical performance. You know, there's going to be good

00:05:22.920 guys there. And the third is business outings, uh, business network, international, uh, rotary

00:05:30.060 chamber of commerce, other business functions and meetings that are going on within your community.

00:05:35.200 And you can find all of these by going to even your community center. Every town has a community

00:05:40.600 center, run down there, talk to the person there and say, Hey, I'm, I'm looking to connect with a good

00:05:45.080 group of business owners or entrepreneurs, or, uh, you know, people who go on hikes on the weekend or

00:05:52.020 people who are learning about photography or underwater basket weaving or whatever your thing

00:05:57.260 is. And each community center usually has a little pamphlet that has a list of all their programs and

00:06:04.140 classes and courses that are available. And they're cheap. They're like five bucks, 10 bucks, 15 bucks

00:06:08.700 for a month. That's how you go connect with people. But that's really the first step. And that's the

00:06:14.840 easiest step. Some of you might hear that and think, Oh my gosh, I'm intimidated. Just thinking about

00:06:19.740 that. Just make a commitment to do it twice per month, church once a week and some extracurricular

00:06:27.560 activity every two weeks, at least at first. But here's the hard part. You have to insert yourself

00:06:35.800 into the conversations that are taking place. It's not enough to go to the gym and be a wallflower.

00:06:41.380 You're not going to meet anybody. Yeah. It's not enough to go to chamber and hide in the corner and let

00:06:47.580 everybody else speak and you don't share who you are, what you do or what you're about or introduce

00:06:52.580 yourself to anybody. It's not enough to go to church and sit in the back pew and let the pastor give the

00:06:59.240 sermon and then leave immediately before anybody has the chance to say hi to you. So you really have

00:07:06.160 to go out of your way to insert yourself into conversations. And the way that I've done this in

00:07:11.280 the past is very simply say, let's say I met you at church Kip and I introduced myself. I would say

00:07:20.360 this, Hey, you know what? I'm new to the area. Is there anything going on this weekend or coming up

00:07:26.120 this week that I should be aware of that I might be interested to check out? And more often than not,

00:07:31.800 you're going to tell me things that I can go do. And you're probably going to invite me to something

00:07:37.780 if you have something going on. Totally. When I moved back to Southern Utah, I'd use this exact

00:07:42.480 strategy. I went to jujitsu and I knew a guy or two there, but for the most part, I didn't know

00:07:47.920 anybody there. And after class, everybody was just sitting on the mats, just shooting the breeze,

00:07:54.280 just talking and hanging out on the mats. And I was getting, I walked off the mats and I was going

00:08:00.060 to get changed. And I'm like, no, no, like this is part of the reason you're here brotherhood.

00:08:04.440 So I just walked over the middle of the mat. I didn't know any of these guys. I'm like, Hey guys,

00:08:08.560 do you mind if I grab a seat with you? I'm new here and just kind of interested in meeting some

00:08:12.600 cool guys, right? Yeah. Grab a seat. So we start talking and, and just having a conversation about

00:08:18.120 who knows what. And I said the same thing. I'm like, Hey, is there anything going on in the next

00:08:21.600 week that maybe I should be aware of? And they're like, Oh yeah. Fights at the fairgrounds are next

00:08:26.340 weekend. Do you want to go? I have an extra ticket. Like, yeah, sure. Met the guys there.

00:08:31.900 Didn't know them, met them there, hung out with them for the evening. And, and a lot of us still,

00:08:36.920 you know, talk and converse and have relationships now. And that was three years ago.

00:08:41.560 You just have to exert yourself. And there's another part to your question, which is how do

00:08:45.760 you make your impact in your community? But you can't do that until you start getting around the

00:08:50.040 movers and shakers in your community. Yeah. I love it. I mean, the only thing I'd add is just

00:08:54.900 the intent needs to be, just be curious about people, right? Even people at work. It's interesting,

00:09:01.580 you know, a common thing for people that work in offices right now is like workforce being remote,

00:09:08.620 right? Or in office. And it's interesting because the organization's like, Oh, we want people in the

00:09:15.060 office. Why? Because we don't have to be intentional to form relationships. It's like, it's an accident,

00:09:21.260 but if you're intentional, you can make it happen. Like guys. And we say this all the time to the

00:09:27.940 guys in the iron council, you're on the Friday call. Someone says something that resonates message

00:09:32.800 them. Hey, could I have a 15 minute call? I just wanted to get to know you. Be curious. And when

00:09:39.760 we're curious at getting to know people, you're going to immediately go like, this is the kind of

00:09:43.920 person I want to surround myself with, or we might be aligned around certain things around how we see

00:09:50.940 life or marriage or religion or whatever, but you're never going to know that. And, and it's

00:09:55.820 almost like, I can't help, but think back up, you remember the.com era. It was funny is everybody was

00:10:01.580 like, you build a website and magically everyone will just show up and buy your stuff. That's what

00:10:06.340 everyone assumed. I would just make a website and just magically you'll make business. Well,

00:10:11.020 first off, that never was the case. And nor is your impact on your community. You're just not

00:10:16.080 going to show up. And all of a sudden people are like flocking to you and going, Oh man, Ryan,

00:10:19.940 I want to get to know you. No, you got to be curious in people. You have to reach out to them.

00:10:24.360 And I can't count how many times there's someone I like. And this sounds very selfish or self-centered,

00:10:31.580 but there's people I like because they reached out to me to say, Hey, I want to get to know you.

00:10:36.160 And by default, I'm like, I like that guy. I like that guy. Yeah. He's assertive and he's

00:10:42.220 interested in me and we're interested in people that are interested in us.

00:10:45.980 You know, what's where this is really interesting to me is when people move to a new town, I've

00:10:52.760 heard people say this about moving to a new town and even going to church. What they'll say is,

00:10:57.360 Oh, you know, everybody here is just so private. Like nobody welcomed me or nobody introduced

00:11:02.920 themselves. And should they do that? Of course they should. A new neighbor should do that. Somebody

00:11:07.040 at church should do that. So if that's you and you see a new person come in, go welcome them.

00:11:10.960 But that being said, that's not their responsibility. If you want to be part of

00:11:18.360 something, then you have to go introduce yourself. So I've been in new areas where I I'm the new person

00:11:25.280 and I go knock on the neighbor's doors and say, Hey, I'm new here. We live right over here. Just

00:11:31.480 wanted to let you know, introduce myself, see who the neighbors are or the, or at jujitsu,

00:11:36.220 like the example I just gave, but you have to be the assertive one. Um, and then there's another

00:11:41.220 thing too, is you said, be interested. I wholeheartedly agree. Be interested and curious

00:11:46.600 about people and also be interesting. Yeah. Most people don't talk about that. And I've talked with

00:11:54.180 so many men who are so boring. They, they don't, they don't do anything. They don't have any interest.

00:12:01.220 They don't have any hobbies. There's no edges. There's no adventures they've been on. There's

00:12:06.380 no risks they've ever taken. There's no things they've tried that are new. And I'm like, this is

00:12:10.240 a great conversation with a really boring bump on the log guys build a life. That's interesting.

00:12:17.740 Not only for the sake of you being more enjoying of your, of your life, but so that people have

00:12:24.060 things to talk with you about and, and find some commonalities with, you know, I hunt,

00:12:29.240 I train jujitsu. I like to work with my hands. I do Pokemon cards with my kids. I travel all over

00:12:34.900 the country. I do. I like building Legos. There's things that I do that some are risk-taking some are

00:12:41.980 kind of quirky and nerdy and dorky, but that's, it's the interesting edges that make you a person

00:12:47.680 worth spending time with. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love it. All right. Next question. Carnell Tate

00:12:54.740 is like five questions in a paragraph here. So I'm going to like, I'm jumping to towards the end

00:13:01.920 here. How do I communicate effectively without offending people because of a mindset, because

00:13:08.440 as a mindset coach, I've had the ability to demand dismantle limiting beliefs. However, to some people

00:13:15.840 that may be offensive and the people who I'm looking to help and care for the most may not be able to

00:13:21.800 receive the message I'm delivering. This is a really great question. I, at least I love this

00:13:26.680 question. Oh man, I'm, I'm drawn a blank on a quote that John Lovell just shared with me. Um,

00:13:32.580 his podcast is coming out next week that I did with him. And, uh, what was the quote? I'll have to find

00:13:38.840 it, but it was, it was something like I'm paraphrasing and I'll, I'll look it up, but it's

00:13:45.180 something like niceness if possible, but truth at all costs. And, and so you can have both, but the

00:13:53.300 priority is always truth. Yeah. One thing I would be careful of is offering unsolicited advice,

00:14:00.560 because that's rarely something that's going to be positively accepted by somebody unless they're

00:14:05.380 very open-minded. They're very humble and they're eager to learn new information and get feedback

00:14:11.040 outside of that unsolicited advice is rarely a good thing to do. Um, you know, when it comes to

00:14:17.800 delivering what you need to deliver, truth is important, but if a person can't receive it,

00:14:23.080 then it really doesn't matter what you said because they're not going to hear it. Yeah. So I look for

00:14:29.080 cues. I asked for permission at times, even at this event that we did in St. Louis, there was a guy

00:14:34.240 who, uh, it was a smaller group. It was about 40 of us. And I, I didn't want to talk at them for an

00:14:41.460 hour. And so I was asking questions and good engagement by the group. And, and I was asking

00:14:46.120 about what I was asking men, what gives you purpose in life? What's your mission? And I had a couple of

00:14:51.840 guys raise their hand and talk about what they were excited about. And then I had this one guy and

00:14:56.780 he's like, I don't know if this really counts. I mean, I know it's not as good as what the other guys

00:15:00.720 have said, but my dog really gives me a sense of purpose. You know, I like, I like being with my

00:15:05.960 dog. I like taking care of him. I like training him. He brings a lot of joy to my life. And that's

00:15:10.120 something that gives me meaning and purpose. I know it's not like good. And it's not, it may not

00:15:15.200 be a big deal to other people. And he finished up and I said, Hey man, do you mind if I give you a

00:15:20.260 little coaching? And he's like, yeah, sure. I said, good. I only asked that because I want to make sure

00:15:26.840 that you're comfortable with what I'm about to say. And he was funny. He's like, well, what are you

00:15:30.160 going to say? I'm like, I'll tell you. And, and I, and I told him and I said, look, never discount

00:15:36.480 what brings you happiness and fulfillment and joy. It doesn't matter what we think of what brings you

00:15:42.200 fulfillment. Does it make you happy? And he said, yeah. I said, then that's all that matters. You

00:15:46.060 don't need to qualify that. Totally. I may not see it the same way, but what relevancy does that have

00:15:51.480 in your life? And he's like, ah, that's a good point. But the reason I bring that up is because

00:15:55.700 I asked for permission first. Yeah. And also I, I want people to hear the information. And so

00:16:05.040 you can, you can pull punches a little bit, but still have it impactful and still it'd be honest.

00:16:12.300 Right. Kip. So for example, if, uh, let's say I, I, I, I noticed a trend in your behavior that I

00:16:20.900 didn't think was conducive to living the kind of life I know you want to live. Um, we have a good

00:16:27.500 enough relationship where I think I could bring that up unsolicited. And what I might say to you

00:16:33.260 is, Hey Kip, you know, I have to bring something up. That's really uncomfortable for me.

00:16:40.080 And the only reason I bring it up is because I love you and I care about you and I really want the

00:16:45.200 best for you. So this is hard for me to say, and you know what? It might be hard for you to hear,

00:16:51.860 but it's more important that I share this with you than just let it slip because we're friends.

00:16:57.580 Yeah. Shared purpose. That's a way to, yeah. Shared purpose and contrasting where you don't want the

00:17:04.700 conversation to go, right? Like you aligned with me, right? You just said, Hey, we have a shared purpose

00:17:10.000 here. I want you to be great. And I know you want to too. And then you said where I don't want this

00:17:16.100 to go. Right. And that's called contrasting, which is perfect. Sorry. I just want to label that a

00:17:20.840 little bit, maybe for the guys listening. No, I'm glad you said that. Um, but yeah,

00:17:25.640 you soften that blow, you get them ready. They got to put their, you got to put on a little armor

00:17:29.360 right now, Kip. You're like, okay, like I'm going to armor myself up. Like, give me, like,

00:17:33.720 let me prepare for what I'm going to hear. And then I share what I need to hear, what you need to hear.

00:17:38.040 And you know, we drive on. And I think if you do it from a position of

00:17:42.380 the mindset is this, if you're sharing information to beat on your own chest about how great you are,

00:17:51.500 how smart you are, how incredible you are, why everybody just needs to listen to you,

00:17:55.600 it's going to land on deaf ears. Yep. But if you approach it and have this mindset that everything

00:18:01.260 I'm going to do, I'm going to share for and on behalf and benefit of the other person.

00:18:06.120 I think you'll navigate those waters more effectively. Even if you are sharing harsh

00:18:12.720 truths, if they know that you're on their side and it's for their benefit, it's going to have,

00:18:19.080 you're going to resonate a lot more than you otherwise would.

00:18:23.680 Yeah. I love this. I, one, one way I approach this is I call it relational influence.

00:18:29.300 And it's interesting because the relational part of this is critical because there's an element

00:18:36.960 of understanding that you need to have about me, Ryan, to be able to speak into me. If you don't

00:18:43.160 know me, right? If you don't know the nuances, if you haven't sought to listen and learn the

00:18:49.580 circumstances by which I do things, then your coaching is about who or, or it's short sighted.

00:18:57.280 It's not in depth, right? It's not correlated to me. And so, you know, we have to have connection

00:19:03.180 with people in the grand scheme of things. If you really want to speak into them, you have to be

00:19:07.700 close enough to the thing that you're coaching about. And then, like you said, an aligned purpose

00:19:13.420 around how this benefits you. I remember I use this example years ago. Well, I don't even know if the

00:19:20.100 coaching worked. You guys can tell us if it actually worked or not. But Ryan gave me coaching early

00:19:24.040 on when we started podcasting together, geez, almost eight years ago. And I remember after one

00:19:31.640 of our recordings, you said, Hey, Kip, you did exactly what you said. You're like, Hey, can I give

00:19:36.860 you some feedback? And I'm like, absolutely. But this is the way you said it was so profound. And I use

00:19:43.260 this as an example all the time. You said, you have a tendency to say, right at the end of sentences.

00:19:54.460 And by doing so, it may detract from the impact of the message you're trying to share.

00:20:02.600 You didn't criticize, like, you sound stupid. You keep saying, right. It was, it deters from your

00:20:11.680 effectiveness, shared purpose, something, it's about this greater thing that you're trying to

00:20:18.140 achieve that I know is important to you. And the thing that you're doing might be dampening your

00:20:23.860 effectiveness. It didn't feel like an attack at all. It just felt like alignment to what was most

00:20:31.000 important to me. It was spot on. Well, in my head, I was thinking you sound like an idiot,

00:20:38.780 but I did deliver it, but use tactics more effectively. Absolutely. But it was great.

00:20:44.380 It was great. Like connect to what's more important to me. And that's what you did. Yeah. Well,

00:20:50.480 I think that's, I, and I'm glad, I'm glad it resonated. I'm glad I did that. I'm not sure I even

00:20:54.460 was aware of that because I probably do the opposite so many times as well. Um, I'm glad I did it right

00:20:59.960 in that moment, but yeah, I mean, it's really about caring about the other person. You know,

00:21:04.060 there's a tactic that I use when I do public speaking because I do get nervous, uh, in public

00:21:10.400 when I'm doing public speaking and I've done so much of it, but I still get nervous and I get tense

00:21:14.380 because I really want whatever it is I'm sharing to be helpful for the people who are listening to it.

00:21:20.540 But I get up there and I start rushing through my words and I, my nerves get the better of me and I get

00:21:26.000 tense. And one thing I started doing that had a really unintended benefit, positive benefit is

00:21:31.500 that I try if I can, if the situation allows to meet as many people who are going to be listening

00:21:37.460 to me before I speak. Yeah. So this presentation I did in St. Louis, I got there about a half hour

00:21:44.880 early. Everybody was just kind of hanging out. The Brett, the guy that put the get together,

00:21:49.920 the event, um, introduced me to a few people. I talked to them, asked them about what they were

00:21:54.060 doing, asked what they like about the group and just kind of shot the breeze with as many guys as

00:21:57.900 I could. And then what I noticed is two things. The reason I do that is because it helps me feel

00:22:04.320 more comfortable because now I feel like we have a little bit of relatability and it calms my nerves

00:22:09.940 down. But the unintended positive benefit is that people are now more gracious with you when you

00:22:15.260 present and they're more engaged because they know you. Yeah. See, if you get on a stage and they

00:22:20.940 don't know you, depending on the event, you're still going to have some credibility because

00:22:24.820 you're there speaking, but there's not going to be that connect. It takes a long time, even

00:22:29.440 through, even after the conversation or the presentation to develop that connection. But

00:22:34.380 man, if you can front end load that people are going to receive a whole lot more than if you just

00:22:39.960 blabber and regurgitate a lot of information before they connect with you. Yeah. It's so powerful.

00:22:44.980 There's one thing I really wanted to share with Carnell, if you don't mind Ryan, me just

00:22:49.020 injecting this in before we move on. Our job, how do I say this? I want to be careful when

00:22:58.780 we, when we speak into people, right? When like in his example, he's wanting to help people

00:23:04.360 with dismantling some limiting beliefs. The power of growth is in choice, not in convincing

00:23:14.900 manipulation. So like, hold onto that thought that my job is like, if, if I convince you,

00:23:24.500 Ryan, but if I try to convince you and I use tactics and things to suede your opinion, that

00:23:29.560 has a level of effectiveness. Let's just say an effectiveness level of three. But when I share

00:23:36.220 in a way where your internal dialogue is a consideration of self, where you're, you're

00:23:43.400 saying, man, how does this apply to me? And you come to that conclusion on your own, that

00:23:50.840 is going to be far more effective than anything that, that I might do. And this is why when we

00:23:57.560 enlist people, when we want to share people, one of the most powerful ways is not to preach

00:24:02.080 at them. The most powerful thing is to share with what's, what I got, how it's made a difference

00:24:11.200 in my life, how this thing that I'm talking about, this limited belief has, has changed

00:24:16.700 my life for myself. I do that. People will listen from the perspective of, oh man, I wonder

00:24:21.700 how that correlates with me. But the minute I go, Ryan, you need to X. Most people, their

00:24:28.600 internal dialogue immediately moves to, oh, I don't know if I agree. I don't know if

00:24:33.220 I disagree. And they start the racket into their head on whether they're in agreement

00:24:37.420 with you or not. So look at this from the perspective of planting the seed for people

00:24:43.780 to consider for themselves and share in a powerful way. I'm not saying don't do that, but

00:24:48.660 don't latch onto the idea that it has to be their decision. And that is what will be far

00:24:55.180 more effective than anything else. Yeah. I, I was such a good, I, I, the term I use for

00:25:00.700 that is indirect influence. You're influencing somebody indirectly because you're not pushing

00:25:06.340 on them. So an example of that would have come from our Friday call this morning in the

00:25:10.760 iron council. And I think you jumped on a little late, didn't you Kip? A little bit. And so you

00:25:15.740 may have missed that, the story that I shared, but I shared a story of going on a backpacking

00:25:21.620 trip with some young men from our church congregation years ago. And we hiked to the

00:25:27.300 bottom of this, um, ravine. It was about 10 miles in and camped out that night. And then

00:25:32.600 the last, the second day we're going to hike 10 miles out. And the second day I put my backpack

00:25:38.580 on and it's just heavy. It's so heavy. I've told you this story. So dang heavy. I'm like,

00:25:45.100 what is going on? I thought I was just tired or my legs were sore from the 10 miles in. I'm

00:25:49.600 like, I shouldn't, shouldn't feel this heavy. We get up hiking two, three miles. I'm like,

00:25:53.960 what is going on? And we take a break and I start looking at my bag. The boys had put

00:25:58.380 rocks in my bag. And I told this story and I told them how I took the rocks out. And

00:26:04.300 it was, I thought it was funny. Even at the time it was funny. And I took the rocks out

00:26:08.180 and we kind of tried to put rocks in each other's bags the rest of the trip. But I told

00:26:13.140 this story because I wanted to liken the idea of us carrying around extra weight. That's

00:26:18.780 not ours to carry and serves no purpose. But I didn't just say, Hey guys, take the rocks

00:26:26.200 out of your bag. You have a rock and you have a rock and you have a rock and you have a rock

00:26:29.040 take, you got to get that out of there. It's like, no, let me share this story. And then

00:26:33.540 you can see to your point, how this might fit in your life. And you can start thinking about

00:26:37.720 even without the prompt thinking about what rocks you're carrying around that you shouldn't

00:26:42.620 be carrying around indirect influence. Yeah. I love that. I got to share a story. So

00:26:48.380 years ago, um, you remember high, high adventures and boy Scouts, right? It was like this every

00:26:54.600 couple of years is this big event. We did King's peak, you know, over, I think 15 miles in 50

00:27:02.980 miles back, right? Four days, four or five days camping. And day one, we pushed the boys too

00:27:09.460 hard full disclosure. And you know, we're, we're having, it started snowing. It was raining.

00:27:17.960 Everyone's wet. I mean, it was just a disaster. Just one of those classic boy scout stories. You're

00:27:22.760 like, Oh my gosh, everything went wrong as possible. And come the morning, we had one particular boy

00:27:29.460 that was, he, he more or less, he's like, I'm not going, I'm not going anywhere. I'm just staying

00:27:36.920 right here. And my first initial instinct was like, what dude, get off your ass. Right. And just

00:27:45.320 like lean into this kid and say, Hey, toughen up and, and be little shame, public shame. If I need

00:27:51.840 to manipulate, get him to move. And one of the other leaders, which is a really wise man, uh, by the name

00:27:58.780 of Roland Anderson, Roland goes, that's okay. You don't have to go. I'll stay here with you.

00:28:06.220 Hmm. And, and that's what we did. We all left and Roland just sits back with him and just sits

00:28:13.200 down with him. Like, yeah, you don't have to go. It's your choice. I'll just sit with you.

00:28:18.220 And the story goes, at least how Roland shared it with me was they're just sitting there and he's

00:28:22.280 like, I'm getting hungry. And he's like, Oh, well, all the foods with all the food just left.

00:28:29.960 Right. And he's like, right. What are we going to sleep in tonight? And he's like, well, our

00:28:33.360 tents, you know, with the group, you know, and he's like, well, what are we going to do? He's

00:28:40.360 like, I don't know. I mean, it's up to you. Right. A couple hours in, he's like, we should probably go

00:28:47.000 and Roland's like, yeah, we probably should. Right. And then they ended up going. And I thought

00:28:51.900 how profound that was, right. I'm not going to force you. I'll be with you. It's your choice.

00:28:59.920 Now there's consequences to these choices, but I'll, I'll bear them with you, but let's let you

00:29:06.420 learn this lesson through your lens and not through the lens of manipulation and control. Right. And

00:29:12.000 that's kind of what I got from it. And it was, it was actually really profound because my natural human

00:29:15.880 instinct was, you know, yell at this kid, right? Screw you, pal. We're going to get up. Yeah,

00:29:20.720 exactly. And I, and I, I, and I would guarantee that that was a major learning lesson for that boy.

00:29:28.260 And he would have never learned anything from me in the way that I was going to react.

00:29:33.080 Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. I like that. I found that quote, by the way, peace, if possible,

00:29:38.720 truth at all costs. Love it. Attributed to Martin Luther, Martin Luther King. All right. Travis,

00:29:45.880 Martin Luther, some other, I thought you, I thought you were going to say Martin Luther King

00:29:50.900 Jr. Is what I thought you were going to say. So got it. All right. Travis Gillis, when life gets busy

00:29:56.580 and complicated and the wheels are starting to fall off with meals, structure, time balance,

00:30:03.320 what is a good protocol to get order back? List everything that's on your plate and stop doing

00:30:14.400 anything you don't need to be doing. That could be time wasters. That could be extra board meetings,

00:30:22.320 extra meetings at work that are not necessary. Um, extra charitable things that you're doing,

00:30:28.840 like whatever you can nix, nix it at least for the time being, because you, you're going to drop the

00:30:35.000 ball on everything if you keep trying to do all of it. So write a list. Here's all my responsibilities.

00:30:41.100 I got to work. That one's not going away. Uh, maybe you have to coach your kid's baseball team.

00:30:46.520 That one's not going away. Uh, you have to take your wife out on dates and continue to court her.

00:30:50.940 That's not going away. Uh, Jim, you know, probably shouldn't go away, but maybe you need to pull

00:30:57.740 back a little bit on that. Uh, church obligations, duties, probably not going away, but the rest of it

00:31:04.300 has to go and have a plan. Hey, I'm going to, I'm going to let these things go until I get this

00:31:10.620 situation tied in lockdown. And I'm just going to focus on the most important things right now.

00:31:17.320 You know, it's, um, when you're troubleshooting, uh, let's say technology is not working.

00:31:24.740 You're going to troubleshoot the most important thing first, right? So your technology is not

00:31:30.100 working. The first thing you do is you just shut the computer down and restart the computer process

00:31:34.560 of elimination. Yep. That's it. Okay. Well that didn't work, but I'm not going to go out and buy

00:31:38.960 a new computer. I'm not going to go out and invest in higher tech to come in. I'm like,

00:31:42.080 hold on a sec. Let me just try restarting the damn thing. 99% of the time that addresses the issue,

00:31:48.620 make sure it's plugged into the wall, but you don't want to start breaking things apart. If the thing,

00:31:53.600 maybe it's the, maybe the charger's dead. So get another one, plug that one and see if that fixes the

00:31:59.280 problem. And so you're just analyzing what is the issue in that process of elimination until you get

00:32:06.720 to the problem and then you address the problem and everything's fine and you drive on. So you have to

00:32:11.300 do the same thing in, in your life. Um, a bit contrary to what I'm just, what I just told you

00:32:18.400 is sometimes the situation calls for randomization. Hmm. Sometimes we, as men get too monotonous,

00:32:29.280 too structured, too disciplined and life becomes miserable. Yeah. You're effective. You're getting

00:32:39.340 everything done and you are a miserable, miserable human being. And in that case, maybe it's shut the

00:32:45.920 computer down and go get a sandwich or go for a walk. How many times have you had a problem and you're

00:32:53.600 like, you know what? Damn, I can't fix this. I'm going to step away for a minute. I'm going to go do

00:33:00.200 something completely unrelated. And then you come back and the solution's like obvious. Like, oh, that's

00:33:08.960 it. Okay. And then it's done. Sometimes in our lives, we as men need a new frame of reference and you

00:33:15.160 can't get a new frame of reference doing the same thing that you've always done. So who asked this

00:33:21.300 question? Uh, Travis. So Travis, maybe you just need to take your kids on a camp out this weekend

00:33:28.380 and put all that other stuff aside. I know it's a little counter to what I just told you, but you

00:33:34.120 can figure out what situation is, is warranted, but I've seen that happen a lot. And then you go out

00:33:39.620 and you go camping or you go on an adventure or you go on a hike or you do something out of the

00:33:44.500 ordinary. Um, you and your wife do something fun and crazy you've always wanted to do, but never have.

00:33:49.080 And then you come back with a fresh perspective, you're rejuvenated and you're excited to dive back

00:33:54.700 into your scheduled life. Yeah. Well, and sometimes we just over commit, right? I can't, I can't think

00:34:02.560 how many times that I've been at work and it's like all these things need to get done.

00:34:09.420 And guess what? At the end of the day, some of them didn't get it done. Was it that critical?

00:34:12.740 No, no, probably not. Probably not. And so prioritize and execute on the top priorities

00:34:20.340 and do the top things. And, and then I would say, if that is the case, if you are prioritizing,

00:34:26.980 then communicate effectively, Hey, these other things, they're not going to get done this week.

00:34:32.620 Ryan, I apologize. Right? Like I initially had it done or I may have put a priority on it because

00:34:38.840 you asked me, Hey, Kip, can you do this? And I'm thinking it's super urgent. And I come to you and

00:34:43.540 say, Hey, when do we need to get that done by? And you're like, Oh, before the end of the year,

00:34:46.940 I'm like, Oh my goodness. Right? So over communicate if you're going to shift priorities

00:34:51.860 around, but you might need to get really clear on when things are done versus all these things are

00:34:57.740 important because the timeline is usually not the same for a lot of people. Um, and you could

00:35:04.000 prioritize and push things that aren't as critical down or, and, or if you're in a position, Travis,

00:35:10.300 where the boss is saying all these things are critical, communicate up front. Hey, I have these

00:35:14.800 10 things. What's the top priority though. So I can get the right things done. Cause I may not be

00:35:20.380 able to get all 10 done and get clear on it and then just do your best and operate on the top priority

00:35:25.700 items. There's a little, uh, heuristic that I use. I just call it the rule of threes. I don't know.

00:35:31.880 You can call it something else or whatever, but I always look at the things that need to be done.

00:35:35.700 And I ask myself, is this going to be important in three hours? Is this going to be important in

00:35:42.320 three days, in three weeks, in three months, in three years? And that's a good way to evaluate

00:35:48.540 what is important. You know, I'd get worked up on social media at times and I'm like, okay, hold on.

00:35:53.080 Is this going to matter in three minutes, let alone three hours? No, it's not. Okay. I can let that go.

00:35:58.560 Yeah. That's not a big deal, you know, or, or let's say you get into an argument with your wife

00:36:05.640 this morning about something. Sure. Address what the problem is, but is her frustration with you

00:36:12.280 going to be something that's going to last more than three hours or three days? If it is, then there's

00:36:18.400 something that's more crucial that needs to be addressed. But if not, you know, babe, look,

00:36:23.040 I'm an idiot. I didn't, I didn't handle that correctly. And I think I could have done better.

00:36:29.560 Just want to tell you, I love you water under the bridge. I'll do better. Like, yeah, let some stuff

00:36:36.020 go. I mean, we really need to be better at letting things go. Dwayne Noel, when he was on the podcast

00:36:40.760 a couple of weeks ago, I can't remember the exact question, but I said, what would you tell young men

00:36:46.180 who are trying to build their life or be better? Whatever I said. And he said something that stood out

00:36:51.300 with me. He said, chill, just chill. And which is completely counter to everything else that you

00:36:58.720 hear in self-development. Yeah. Don't chill, go harder, hustle culture, rise and grind. Yep. And

00:37:06.120 he's like, just chill, just chill out, which I think the world needs more of that. Yeah. That's funny.

00:37:11.080 Like even earlier this year, my team, we were just kind of doing strategic planning for the quarter

00:37:16.980 and our mantra coming out of the quarter was passion and fun.

00:37:23.380 Let's be passionate. Let's get back to having fun. Have fun. Yeah. Like it's mostly me. That's

00:37:29.100 not having fun. I'm like way too serious about things. So I'm the same way. Serious people have

00:37:33.420 a hard time with it for sure. All right. Nicholas Wade, what would you consider are signs of spiritual

00:37:40.440 abuse in a pastor or leader at a church? Signs of spiritual abuse. Yeah. Well, I mean, there's

00:37:51.300 things like misrepresenting scripture. Yeah. I also think misrepresenting scripture is probably number

00:37:59.860 one. I also think there's a lot of social issues that preachers and pastors are on the wrong side of.

00:38:07.500 And they're preaching from a position of authority, but they're not referencing any sort of

00:38:15.340 biblical work or reference. And it's just their own opinion, but they're presenting it as if it's

00:38:22.480 biblical in nature. That's that's spiritual abuse. Did you have a, did you have something you're

00:38:29.500 going to say on that one, Kip? I mean, I struggle. Well, keep going. I don't want to derail us. Keep

00:38:35.580 going. Yeah. I, I think you can start to see what those problems are when these cultural issues get

00:38:42.640 brought into a preaching type conversation. Now there are certain cultural issues, for example,

00:38:48.340 abortion that I would say that a preacher and a pastor should take on. But one thing that I really

00:38:54.520 have a hard time with is these men who are weak, timid, and cowardly about social norms. I call it the

00:39:02.780 doctrine of popular culture. It's not gospel. It's the doctrine of popular culture. And I see these men

00:39:09.860 who are waving to and fro and tossing and changing their opinion based on what the doctrine of popular

00:39:15.900 culture says, not what the good book says. And so if you have a pastor or preacher who isn't

00:39:21.620 principled, objective morality, for example, then that's somebody who's misusing his position and

00:39:28.640 influencing a lot of people by presenting himself as some sort of biblical scholar or some spiritual

00:39:36.160 advisor, when really he's nothing more than a social activist for all the wrong causes.

00:39:45.440 Totally. So I would definitely be aware of that as well. I also think there's things that happen in

00:39:50.640 churches where, uh, people get taken advantage of their, their kindness, their hospitality, their

00:39:57.820 charity, their effort gets abused and taken advantage of. You know, I, I, I saw this in, in the LDS

00:40:05.320 church. I'm no longer Mormon, but I would see, uh, there's this push to have the men in the community,

00:40:14.480 like move everybody in and out all the time. It's like, guys, you're, you're perfectly capable

00:40:21.520 of moving yourself in. Now, if we want to be hospitable and neighborly, we should, we should do

00:40:25.800 that. If there's an elderly woman who maybe just lost her husband and she needs her lawn mowed. Sure.

00:40:31.860 We should do that. But for other people who are fully capable of, of taking care of their business,

00:40:37.860 we ought to let them take care of their business and, and manage their own responsibilities because we do.

00:40:44.480 And another thing that I saw too often was in, in that, in that church, there was callings and these

00:40:51.720 callings were fulfilled by, um, members of the congregation. And I would see people be called

00:41:00.500 young men be called young men with families, young men going through school and work full time,

00:41:06.900 just to the brim, be asked to be in the bishopric. I'm like, that's a guy that has a young,

00:41:14.480 he's got three kids under five at home. His wife is just going nuts. I'm sure he's trying to get his

00:41:20.480 master's degrees working full time. He doesn't need to be in the bishopric right now. Yeah. Let's

00:41:27.080 let an older gentleman who has the time and flexibility to do that and let this young man

00:41:32.100 lead his family and do what he needs to do to build his career. I think taking advantage of people like

00:41:38.720 that is a problem. Yeah. This is, this was the area that I, I didn't want to derail, but I think

00:41:44.140 there's some value in this. I immediately, when I read his question, I immediately get quasi triggered,

00:41:51.620 right? When I hear like, well, you know, like I even cults when people talk about like, oh, well,

00:41:58.260 these cults are like, they be, they, by labeling it as that we become victims and don't take ownership

00:42:10.380 over the decision. Right? So as a, here's a permanent example. So years ago, when I was young,

00:42:16.100 two boys, school, full time, working full time, two kids underneath the age of two,

00:42:22.600 I had no time. And I actually remember very similar to your scenario. I got called to

00:42:30.300 an important position at church and I went into my, the bishop's office and I said, Hey,

00:42:37.720 man, you're just trying to kill me. And he's like, what do you mean? I'm like, I got all this stuff

00:42:41.560 going on. He's like, kid, I called you. It is you that needs to own whether it is right for you and

00:42:49.260 your family. And I want shit. Right? Like, got it. That is, that's my decision. Right? So even when

00:42:59.300 we say, uh, pasture abusing or my job abuses me or my spouse is, is, is, um, not physical abuse,

00:43:10.300 but like mental abuse, you're choosing it. So be careful. Don't we don't latch onto this thing of like

00:43:18.420 these people in power are abusing and then we're victims of them. Remove yourself, change the

00:43:26.000 circumstance, own the scenario. And, and when we look at the definition of abuse, it really helps

00:43:32.280 set the tone of this. Abuse is the misuse of power, influence, or position in a way that causes harm

00:43:40.200 emotionally, mentally, physically, or psychologically. It is not defined by the intent of the person doing

00:43:46.760 it, but by the impact of the person's experiencing it. My point being is you don't know anybody that

00:43:54.760 misuses power. You don't know anyone that misuses influence and position. Welcome to the world.

00:44:03.200 Everybody does. And now I'm not saying it's ideal. I'm not saying it's right, but you don't think

00:44:09.600 we're all walking around self-righteous, self-centered about how this benefits me. And I'm trying to

00:44:15.880 manipulate my people. Most people do. Most people in leadership positions practice, in my opinion,

00:44:23.640 unrighteous dominion. It is our job to say, guess what? I'm not following you. That doesn't work for

00:44:32.020 me. I'm not going to work for this kind of boss. I'm not going to attend and or stand for that in my

00:44:37.780 life. That's unacceptable in my relationships with people. That's not right. And I, and I say all that

00:44:45.720 so we move to a position of empowerment and not be a victim of abuse that might come and go that

00:44:53.840 people may not even realize that they're doing because they're so damn self-centered that they're

00:44:59.300 not even aware of it, you know, and, and we need to stand right. And if we find ourselves in these

00:45:05.000 quote unquote environments, man, walk away from those environments, do something about it, stand up.

00:45:11.320 And that's how you not only do what's best for you, but you start setting a tone of what's best for

00:45:17.080 other people around you. Well said. I mean, this is the whole principle behind sovereignty.

00:45:25.740 Absolutely. Own your life. You can make those decisions. I remember when I got, I got some

00:45:30.600 callings and when I'd move into a new ward, uh, they would, they would often, you know, pull new couples

00:45:37.240 in new people, the area and like, and introduce themselves. And I would always tell them, I said,

00:45:42.860 you can put me in any calling as long as it's the teacher's quorum with the young men.

00:45:51.000 And they're like, wait, what? We wanted you to be in nursery. Nope. Nope. That doesn't work for me.

00:45:55.620 We want to do, we will. How about primary? No, I just told you, you can put me with the teachers.

00:46:01.160 How about the deacons? Did I say deacons? Did I stutter? You can put me with the teachers

00:46:07.260 or find someone else because that's what I want to do and I'll serve, but it has to be within the

00:46:14.560 constraints of what I want to do. And, and I love capacity for, I love the bigger framework here of

00:46:20.340 sovereignty around this because how often I latch myself onto a religious group and that group asks me

00:46:27.960 to do something. So what do I do? Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm no longer independent pin independently

00:46:37.180 seeking my sovereignty and spirituality. I've just slashed onto a group and we do this politically

00:46:43.060 as well. Oh, I'm a Democrat. Oh, how are they leaning? Oh, that's my, that's my opinion. Now it's

00:46:49.000 like, guys, we need to stop being lazy and latching on. So we, we can be lazy in our thinking and be your

00:46:56.460 own version and don't latch onto a political party. Don't latch onto a spiritual group and call that

00:47:03.540 religion. You find your own spirituality. You figure out what's best for you and your family. You vote

00:47:10.260 politically based upon your principles, not the principles of some group. Yeah. I mean, I wrote

00:47:17.160 down as you were saying, this is, you know, you have to have your own testimony of Christ. If we're

00:47:22.260 talking about it from the spiritual realm. Totally. We look, we can lean on other people's

00:47:26.400 testimonies. I do. You know, I, when I said I had John Lovell on the podcast. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

00:47:31.980 he's highly spiritual. He's a pastor. He talks a lot about his, his faith. And a lot of the answers

00:47:36.500 that he gave me to the questions I asked were rooted in his faith-based principles. And I took that as his

00:47:43.500 part of his testimonial, uh, about Christ and God. And it was impactful to me. And also I have a

00:47:53.020 responsibility to develop my own testimony free and independent of what John Lovell or whoever else

00:47:58.480 thinks, because if he dies or changes his opinion or his mind, or it's at odds now with what I believe

00:48:06.340 that stuff shatters. And that's where people say, Oh, well, you know, and they, they leave something

00:48:10.800 that's good because their, their involvement with it was reliant on someone else, another human being

00:48:20.840 instead of being on their own two feet. All right, cool. What's next? We beat that one up.

00:48:24.600 Yeah. Uh, Brian, uh, Don, what are the best ways to leave a legacy while going through a divorce?

00:48:30.940 It feels like my reputation with my kids will be tainted because of it.

00:48:35.400 Yeah, it might, it really might. Uh, it might be tainted. We have a program called divorce,

00:48:42.080 not death. So you should check that out because it goes through some of this as well. In fact,

00:48:45.360 we have a call here in the next hour and a half for that. But, um, I think the best thing you can do

00:48:52.720 is show up fully for your kids and let them see you showing up the way that you want to show up.

00:48:59.020 And you probably, because of the divorce, I imagine that you have a part to play in it to

00:49:05.220 some degree. I don't know what, to what degree, but you do. And you probably weren't showing up

00:49:10.740 as fully as you should have been, but you can now. And so it goes with texting and phone calls and

00:49:17.800 inviting them over and spending time with them and being engaged. I wrote my son a message, a text just

00:49:22.960 yesterday, and it was, it was heartfelt. You know, I was from the heart. I told him how I felt about

00:49:28.960 what he's doing and how proud I am of him. And I shared with him how I didn't always show up. And

00:49:34.440 he wrote a really nice message back to me about how he hasn't always shown up and what he's afraid

00:49:39.500 of as he, you know, graduates high school. It was awesome. And that's part of the legacy I want to

00:49:45.540 leave. You know, there's another thing too, that you have to be very aware of is I don't know the

00:49:50.620 dynamic between you and your ex, but you need to treat her well, even if you don't want to,

00:49:56.900 even if the only reason you can see for treating her well is that it draws you closer to the kids,

00:50:03.460 then you should play that game all day long. Because if you aren't treating her well,

00:50:09.380 or you lash out, or you get emotional, or you use manipulation tactics, or you try to get at her

00:50:15.660 or whatever, that's going to trickle down to the kids. Either she's going to directly influence them

00:50:22.640 and tell them how big of an asshole you're being, or her behavior will be seen by your kids. And it

00:50:28.620 will be mimicked and mirrored towards you from them. I've had this happen. And I think one of the

00:50:34.320 best things that you can do for your children and you and the relationship you have with each other

00:50:40.100 is to treat her well, as well as you can, in spite of how you might feel about her.

00:50:47.000 You got to do, it's just part of the game. Yeah. And it goes a long way.

00:50:52.560 I mean, who they are is, is a part of her. You don't think they internal, you don't think they

00:50:58.880 internalize that yet that you hate part of what made them something they love so much that they

00:51:07.980 adore. Cause look, I've, I did something and I've only done this blatantly once. I said something to

00:51:15.160 my daughter about my ex that I shouldn't have said. And it wasn't, it wasn't horrible. It wasn't

00:51:22.740 like, but it was something. Yeah. And man, my daughter jumped on that one. I've never seen her

00:51:30.020 rush so quick to defend somebody and be angry with me over it. Yeah, absolutely. And I was like,

00:51:34.980 got it. Lesson learned. That doesn't help the relationship with my daughter. Yeah. That's part of

00:51:40.380 who they are. You know, Brian, I operate from this perspective. You know, you said it feels like my

00:51:44.800 reputation might be tarnished. Absolutely. Absolutely. Right. Just assume it. Your impact

00:51:53.240 is now, let me say it this way. Your ability to be impactful to your children is now diminished

00:51:59.700 period. So now you got to rise to the occasion. You got to work harder than you probably had to

00:52:06.780 work before you. In spite of your circumstance, you have to do a bunch of stuff that, um, that

00:52:13.840 you probably didn't have to do before for the same level of impact. Welcome to being divorced

00:52:19.580 and, and you can do it. Um, one, one thing that comes to mind is don't justify the divorce.

00:52:28.100 Like don't spend the rest of your 20 years trying to like, not be bad, like trying to, um, protect

00:52:35.940 your reputation and explain it. No, no. You know what? It is what it is. Own your part in it.

00:52:41.280 But move forward and rise to the occasion. And, and that's, what's, what's, that's, what's going to

00:52:48.860 have to be, um, done right for you to have an impact. But I would assume absolutely. And, and I

00:52:55.740 get triggered whenever I be like, Oh, well, kid, kids are smart. They're resilient. You know what?

00:53:00.660 Screw that. Anyone that says that to you, tell them, well, we'll see when my kid's 25 and he has

00:53:06.620 commitment issues because he has unaddressed resolve with the fact that me and his mom broke up.

00:53:14.400 Then you tell me how resilient they are. Trust me. It's affecting your kids. Absolutely. It is.

00:53:21.900 And I, I don't like to downplay it and say, it's going to be okay. No, they're going to be affected.

00:53:27.080 So you better rise to the occasion and, and make up the difference and do your best to be impactful,

00:53:33.960 to ensure that they're loved, to ensure that you love all things that love them, including their mom

00:53:38.960 and that you own your world in it, in spite of this unfortunate circumstance that that's my take on

00:53:45.600 this. I agree. I, and you, and you have to be honest with them to the degree that they're capable

00:53:51.440 of understanding, right? Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's like when, when my kids ask about the divorce

00:53:56.800 or something gets brought up, I tell them, Hey, I, I wish we wouldn't have gone through that.

00:54:01.840 Yep. If I were to do it all over again, I would do it differently. Here's how. Yep. Just honesty.

00:54:08.340 Totally. And let's take a one more. Yeah. We actually only have one more. Um, no, I was just going to say

00:54:13.740 really quick. I mean, that's how you deal with all past experiences that were nice. Weren't ideal.

00:54:19.780 You become a better version of yourself because of it. So make sure that you're becoming a better

00:54:25.100 version of yourself. All right. Kyle, uh, Leverston, what tactics do you use to ensure that you don't

00:54:32.480 trade long-term legacy for short-term comfort? I find myself setting non-negotiables that are tied

00:54:38.740 to the idea of leaving my legacy rather than using motivation as a main catalyst. Could you two elaborate

00:54:45.080 on anything in particular that has helped you? Thank you very much.

00:54:49.780 Yeah. So I know you guys are sick of hearing me say this, but I use our battle planning system

00:54:54.880 and part of our battle planning system. The first part of it is vision. And that vision is how you

00:55:02.400 want to show up, what type of life you want to create, what kind of man you want to be, how you

00:55:06.700 want to show up for others. And when you have that vision, then what we do is we reverse engineer

00:55:12.440 the process. So if I'm tempted to do something in the short term, maybe unnecessary expenses when I

00:55:21.840 have part of my vision is to buy a home, for example, or to buy a ranch and have some hunting

00:55:28.340 property. And I'm tempted to spend three, four or five, 10 grand on a new truck, 10 grand, a hundred

00:55:36.360 grand on a new truck. I'm thinking like 1999 when I bought my Toyota Tacoma, even then I think it was

00:55:47.080 like 18 and when I bought it, but, uh, yeah, a little misspeak there. Um, if I'm tempted to spend

00:55:53.940 70, 80, 90, a hundred grand on a new truck, I can look at my vision and say, Hmm, new truck. Let me go

00:56:01.660 through my vision. Nope. Don't see new truck on that vision of mine, but I do see the hunting ranch.

00:56:07.600 So does that diminish my ability to achieve my vision? Yeah. Not doing that. I think my old truck

00:56:16.560 looks and performs just fine. And that's the one I'll be driving around on the ranch. Cause that

00:56:21.200 matters more to me than the brand new spiffy truck that I just bought that I just spent $10,000 on.

00:56:26.420 Yeah. I love it. So yeah, reverse engineer it. And then, you know, your tactics on a daily basis

00:56:33.260 that align with your objectives that align with your vision and so on and so forth.

00:56:36.180 Yeah. And, and do whatever you need to do to not lose, lose connection to that vision. Right. We,

00:56:41.600 we tell guys this a lot in iron council, right? We, we write it, but what are you doing to

00:56:46.160 put on the forefront of your mind on a regular basis and, and check in on it? Um, the last thought I

00:56:52.920 want to share this funny video. Um, you probably saw this, Ryan, it was Mike Tyson. Do you remember

00:56:59.320 this? And he was being interviewed by this sweet little girl, um, uh, on an up and coming fight.

00:57:06.180 And she said, she asked him about legacy and his thoughts around legacy. And Mike Tyson's reply

00:57:13.200 was so funny. He's like, what's legacy. There's no such thing as legacy. That's just a word that

00:57:18.640 people made up. Right. And you just feel, I feel sorry for this little girl. Cause he's all intense.

00:57:23.920 Right. And he's like beating up this question that she even asked, but there was some wisdom in it.

00:57:28.820 And the wisdom in it was why? And he said something to the extent of what do I care about

00:57:34.100 my legacy when I'm dead? Who's that about? Am I so selfish that I care about what I look like

00:57:41.260 after I'm dead? What people think about me after I'm dead, you know? And I do remember that.

00:57:48.000 Yeah. And it's so funny, but, but there's some truth in it. It's like legacy for who legacy for me

00:57:54.120 or legacy that my kids know how special they are, that they were loved, that they were adored,

00:58:01.600 right? Is that legacy found in not self-service or ego focused, but in the service and the betterment

00:58:09.060 of someone else. And that's just something I'd add to you as you think about legacy.

00:58:14.760 Yeah. One thing I've started doing is I've started to express myself more about the way that I feel

00:58:21.020 about my kids. Like I know how I feel about them and I assume they know how I feel about them,

00:58:26.400 but that's not entirely true. Yeah. And so, you know, I sent that text to my son, um, last night

00:58:32.120 when I was tucking my youngest son in, um, we, we, I sing a couple of songs, we have a secret handshake.

00:58:37.920 And then I tell him things that I love about him or things that I enjoy or things that I'm proud of.

00:58:44.660 And I always try to give him an encouraging word before bedtime because

00:58:49.220 I, I could be gone today. And that might be the only, that might be the last thing that I say to

00:58:55.360 him that he'll remember. And so I, I would, I would say when it comes to leaving your legacy,

00:59:01.140 make sure you're telling the people in your life, how you feel about them, what they mean to you,

00:59:05.540 how proud you are of them, not just your kids, but your wife and your friends and your,

00:59:09.520 your business partners and everybody just tell people how you feel. Uh, I think that's going to

00:59:16.100 go a long way because you know what, when, when people, when you think about the people you loved,

00:59:21.680 don't you remember how they made you feel? Isn't that what you remember the most? Yeah.

00:59:28.820 I was talking with someone the other day and, oh, it was, it was the woman who was cutting my hair.

00:59:34.820 And she said, do you have any plans this weekend or whatever she said? I said, yeah,

00:59:39.100 I'm going hunting with some buddies in Minnesota. And she's like, oh, that's cool. I said, have you

00:59:43.800 ever been hunting? And she's like, no, I, I would much rather fish. I'm like, oh, that's cool. And

00:59:49.080 she's like, I haven't been fishing for a long time though. I'm like, why? You should go this

00:59:52.120 weekend. She's like, well, I lost my fishing partner. I'm like, oh, who's that? She's like my

00:59:56.400 grandpa. And I haven't been fishing since. And I'm like, that's awesome. You could go with your

01:00:02.420 grandpa. She's like, yeah, I don't remember much of it. I just remember having a really good time

01:00:06.200 fishing with grandpa. That's legacy. How I felt. Yeah. Yeah. That's all it is. So make sure you

01:00:12.780 connect the dots for people. Yeah. I love it. Call to actions. Divorce, not death.

01:00:18.940 Sign up. Look at that. Of course, also look at the iron council. If you want to join us there,

01:00:23.680 order of man.com slash iron council. And of course, connect with Mickler, excuse me, on X and on the

01:00:32.460 grand. That kind of sounded like, like, don't actually do that. It was, I don't know why I

01:00:39.760 coughed. I promise. But do connect with him. Yeah. It's good stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely

01:00:45.420 connect with me guys. You should do it. It's awesome. Yeah. I would too. Well, Kip, I appreciate

01:00:50.340 you, man. I have enjoyed the past eight years of getting to know you and doing this podcast together.

01:00:55.280 And we've talked about this in the past. I get so much out of having these conversations with you.

01:01:00.500 I hope it serves the other guys, but selfishly, it definitely serves me. So I appreciate you and

01:01:04.920 your energy you put into this. Uh, guys, great questions today. Keep them coming. We'll keep

01:01:09.280 giving you answers, whether they're right or wrong. We don't know, but we'll keep giving them to you.

01:01:13.280 And, uh, hopefully, hopefully they do more, more good than harm. That's my, that's my hope for you.

01:01:21.180 All right, guys, have a good day. We'll catch you next week until then go out there,

01:01:24.620 take action and become a man. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:01:30.500 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:01:34.560 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - November 26, 2025

Be Intentional, Keep it Together, and Leave Your Legacy ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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