Order of Man - BEAR HANDLON ｜ Too Dumb to Fail？

00:00:00.000 One thing I've noticed with the over 500 guests I've had on the podcast is that they're all

00:00:06.080 relentless in their chosen pursuit. I've also noticed that all of them think they're too dumb

00:00:11.960 to some degree to fail, meaning they realize how crucial it is to be stubborn and hardheaded enough

00:00:18.440 to keep going when all the quote unquote smart people would quit. My guest today,

00:00:23.500 former Navy SEAL and founder of Born Primitive, Bear Handlin is no exception. Today, Bear and I

00:00:29.600 talk about cutting against the grain, why the VA is failing our veterans, why so many men are

00:00:35.360 unwilling to take risks in their lives, how he would have done things differently and when to

00:00:41.500 burn the boats. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly

00:00:46.720 chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time you are

00:00:52.660 not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are.

00:00:59.600 This is who you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said and done, you can call

00:01:05.340 yourself a man. Men, welcome to the Order of Man podcast. My name is Ryan Michler. I'm your host

00:01:13.640 and the founder of this movement to reclaim and restore masculinity. I'm very excited as we wrap up

00:01:19.340 or get close to wrapping up 2024. What is in store for 2025? I've invested heavily financially and even my

00:01:28.740 time into some very new and interesting pursuits and endeavors that I think are going to help this

00:01:35.740 mission to reclaim and restore masculinity, take that to the next level. So thank you for tuning in.

00:01:41.740 Please, if you would share this podcast, we haven't done any advertising or promoting or

00:01:46.540 anything like that. We are a grassroots movement. So I'm joining podcasts. People are coming on mine.

00:01:52.820 Hopefully we're sharing relevant content for you to share. It is important that we get this message

00:01:58.880 out. The world needs this now more than ever. And I think we're in a prime position at this point,

00:02:03.520 especially with the cultural and political landscape to spread this mission of reclaiming

00:02:10.400 masculinity far and wide. So please do your part by sharing something that you heard,

00:02:16.740 splicing it together, creating videos, creating content, texting somebody, a podcast that you

00:02:23.500 listen to, joining our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council, or anything else that you might be

00:02:28.260 doing in support of this mission to reclaim and restore masculinity. Guys, I'm going to get

00:02:33.420 introduced to you, our guest today. Before I do just want to mention, I just got a knife in the mail

00:02:39.920 from Montana knife company. It's called the V24 dagger, and it is a timeless classic knife. I'm

00:02:50.720 very excited about this. This will be part of my kit as I'm hunting or going on adventures or hiking

00:02:57.380 or wherever it may be. This will be part of my everyday carry kit. And if you're looking for a great

00:03:03.120 knife, whether it's an everyday carry, a tactical knife, a hunting knife, a culinary knife, look more,

00:03:09.580 no further than Montana knife company.com. They're making everything 100% in America. They're

00:03:16.320 building an incredible, incredible supply chain and business out of French town, Montana. They're

00:03:22.060 hiring Americans to put them to work and serving their communities. Uh, guys, again, look no further

00:03:27.880 than Montana knife company.com. And if you go over there and pick up any of their gear, they've got a

00:03:33.780 cool new jacket. I got to get my hands on or any of their knives, use the code order of man, all one

00:03:39.480 word order of man at checkout, and you'll save some money on American made products. All right, guys,

00:03:46.100 let me introduce you to my guest today. His name is Bear Hanlon. He is a former Navy SEAL. He's also a

00:03:52.040 Yale graduate who played football, specifically linebacker for Yale. Uh, after serving in the SEAL

00:03:57.960 teams for eight years, Bear has grown his simple compression, short business into a nine figure

00:04:04.940 clothing and apparel company from his garage. His company is born primitive. He is a CrossFit

00:04:11.900 competitor, Navy SEAL, Yale graduate, extremely successful business owner, and advocate of veterans

00:04:18.660 across the country. In fact, born primitive raised over $11 million, $11 million in no

00:04:27.940 to pay off over 6,000 United States veterans medical bills in 2024. He is using his company

00:04:35.040 to make a statement and help those who have served us the most. And in the meantime, building

00:04:40.800 a brand that will become his legacy. Enjoy this one, guys.

00:04:46.660 Bear, what's up, brother? Thanks for joining me on the podcast, man.

00:04:49.640 Thank you for having me.

00:04:50.960 I meant to, I meant to have this happen last month. I missed the boat. You were busy. Life

00:04:56.040 is busy. It is what it is. Right. But I'm glad that you're joining us now.

00:05:00.140 I'm glad we could get together, buddy.

00:05:02.580 Yeah. I, well, I wanted to lead off cause I I'm really excited about what you guys have

00:05:06.920 been up to. And I will say first and foremost, um, I actually use your, your, your products,

00:05:12.060 your, your, uh, your shorts in particular. Uh, I, when I go train, I use born primitive.

00:05:17.820 I didn't know who you were when I, when I bought those, but I learned a little bit more

00:05:22.280 about what you guys were up to, uh, through, I think a mutual friend, Ray cash care, who

00:05:27.040 I know, you know, and, uh, I've been excited to have this conversation because I already

00:05:33.040 use what you guys are doing. And then I learned more about your mission and I love what you're

00:05:36.400 up to.

00:05:37.180 Well, I appreciate you repping the brand. Hopefully you like the shorts.

00:05:40.240 I do, man. I do. They keep everything secure where it needs to be, but they breathe. It's

00:05:44.460 it's good. It's good.

00:05:45.740 Love it.

00:05:46.120 Uh, let's, let's start off the conversation. I know we missed the boat a little bit, but

00:05:51.700 you guys did something pretty cool. And I wish more companies would take a little bit

00:05:56.120 of a play out of your playbook when it comes to how organizations support our veterans, because

00:06:04.360 quite frankly, your organization would not exist without veterans. I know you're a veteran.

00:06:08.620 My organization would not exist without those men and women who have fought for this country

00:06:12.960 and our rights and our freedoms. And you did something where you raised what? $11 million

00:06:19.060 in a span of what? Four to five days. That's pretty incredible, man. And specifically for

00:06:23.860 veterans.

00:06:25.160 Yeah. So every veterans day, we try to do something big, uh, to give back during that weekend.

00:06:30.080 We typically make it a 72 or two hour, 96 hour event. Uh, the last few years we've pledged

00:06:35.540 all profits and donated, um, you know, a hundred K back to back years, which was great. Um, but

00:06:40.920 this year we want to try to do something different. You know, it's like, all right,

00:06:42.940 how do we raise the bar on this impact? Um, and, uh, the idea, you know, I started kicking

00:06:47.740 this around over the summer in June was, Hey, what if we paid off a bunch of veteran medical

00:06:52.040 bills? Like that would be kind of cool. Um, you know, we know that, um, some veterans,

00:06:57.540 you know, are experiencing some financial hardships, particularly right now. Um, we also know that

00:07:02.200 our community is plagued with suicide. Um, and that can be one of the contributing factors

00:07:07.540 to that, you know, kind of, uh, you know, issue that we're facing. So we thought this would

00:07:11.440 be a cool thing to try to do particularly right before the holidays, people that are under

00:07:15.200 financial duress, like, you know, the holiday gets amplified, right? You got little kiddos

00:07:19.800 running around and you got to get them Christmas presents and travel and all these other things.

00:07:23.320 So if you're getting called by creditors and you're maxing out your credit cards and your

00:07:26.960 credit score is shot, not a good time to go into that holiday season. So, um, what started as an

00:07:32.140 idea, um, August rolled around and without telling anyone, we paid off two and a half million

00:07:36.840 dollars of veteran medical bills. Um, and we said, all right, from November, uh, 8th through

00:07:41.900 the 11th ending on veterans day, we're going to try to get that number to 5 million. So we're

00:07:46.560 going to pledge all of our sales to get to that $5 million goal and try to rally our customers

00:07:51.080 around it. Um, you know, fortunately everyone got really fired up with it. Um, and, uh, it really

00:07:56.180 came out to support the cause. Uh, so when we came into work on that Tuesday morning after

00:08:00.260 veterans day, I met with my brother, who's our CFO and Mallory, our co-founder. And we were

00:08:04.200 kind of looking at it like, Hey, yes, we pledged to do five, but like the right thing to do is to

00:08:09.300 double this number. Um, and, um, by the time it came out in the wash, we ended up doing 11 million

00:08:14.260 in total. Um, because we wanted to round up. We were at like 10 and a half. We're like, screw it.

00:08:18.280 Let's just go to 11. Um, because I was able to get on Fox news, uh, right before black Friday.

00:08:23.340 And I was like, let's tack another 500 onto this. So, uh, overall, just throw it on there. Yeah.

00:08:28.120 Yeah. Right. Uh, so, um, you know, it was really humbling to be able to do that. And what I honestly

00:08:33.780 kind of, I think just was a sledgehammer to the heart in a good way, but like in a, a sobering way

00:08:40.300 was I actually was able to call some of these, uh, debt recipients, uh, and let them know. And, uh, just

00:08:46.080 to hear their stories, you know, this was obviously a concept, you know, um, in June that, you know,

00:08:51.400 it's not, you don't really humanize it in your head. It's a, Hey, this is a cool impact. When you start

00:08:55.600 talking with the actual people and realize their circumstances, um, you know, the first

00:09:00.160 girl I talked to, she was a mother in Texas that got in a bad car accident. And she was

00:09:04.500 like, I will literally never going to be able to pay this debt off. Like she had to relearn

00:09:07.700 all of her basic skills. Um, and, um, another Marine on the list is that was $183,000. He

00:09:15.240 was partially paralyzed for a while. Father, single father of three. Um, no, he was, there's

00:09:20.700 no way he's paying that off. Right. And, um, you start to learn about the downstream effects

00:09:25.440 of like, once you're on that list, man, you're getting harassed by letters and a phone calls

00:09:30.820 from unknown numbers and in your credit score goes, you, you can't, you can't get a loan

00:09:35.380 anymore. Once you get under a certain credit score, which most of them fall in that category

00:09:39.160 because they're, if you're with that collectors, usually your credit score is tanked. Um, or

00:09:43.520 you can go to some used car a lot and you're paying 35% interest. So there's all these like

00:09:47.900 second and third order effects, um, that are created for these people. Um, and, uh, so once

00:09:53.240 like I, then I'm now I got skin in the game cause now I'm emotionally invested and this was still

00:09:57.480 when we were at the two and a half to five mark. Um, and, uh, so it was, it was very moving and

00:10:03.060 we got a lot of really cool letters in the mail already. Um, and you know, of course, a lot of

00:10:07.580 these people thought it was a hoax at first, right? That, you know, you get a letter in the mail or,

00:10:10.960 or an email. It's, I think it's first email and a text. So, um, you know, some skepticism,

00:10:16.060 but I had to reassure these people like, Hey, this is not a hoax. There's no action required.

00:10:19.960 I don't need like your email address and the wire. I'm not a King from Saudi Arabia. Don't

00:10:25.060 worry about that. Yeah. Right. Don't go to Western union and, you know, wire someone nine

00:10:29.940 grand in Afghanistan or some, something like that. So, uh, overall, you know, just a really

00:10:35.640 cool effort. And, and, you know, I have to say this, that our customers deserve the credit,

00:10:40.580 you know, we're simply the vehicle, uh, that's facilitating this thing. Um, but the reason we're

00:10:46.420 able to do things like this every year is because I know that are, the customers will

00:10:50.360 come out and get behind it. And that's a pretty awesome position for us to be in. Now it's

00:10:54.700 a, it's a big responsibility, right? Cause now I'm already thinking, all right, next year

00:10:58.120 and I have a good plan for next year. How do you beat next year? How do we keep the momentum

00:11:02.100 going? And then hopefully how do we maybe rub off on some of these other corporations to

00:11:06.620 start using their platform for real good, not, um, checking the corporate box on whatever,

00:11:12.840 uh, you know, thing that they were trying to push that happened to be blowing in the corporate

00:11:17.420 wind that day. You know what I mean? That's like, all right, let's, let's do some real shit

00:11:20.640 for our, for our country. Um, and, and, you know, for, and also our government, it's like

00:11:26.280 shame on our government for making a privately owned family company, like born primitive, having

00:11:32.420 to step in and do something like this when we're wasting all of this money, sending it overseas

00:11:36.600 and spending it on immigrants when like, you know, it's like, we can't even take care

00:11:40.560 on that one though. Yeah. I have a question on that one. So are you, were you guys paying

00:11:45.340 off, uh, medical debt, consumer debt, medical? Yes. And that's important to call out. Why

00:11:51.260 do veterans have medical debt? Well, let me understand that. Well, you know, depending

00:11:55.500 on your, your disability, like in some people probably getting zero disability. Like I think

00:12:00.000 people assume that you have like free healthcare for life and that's not the case. I mean, cause

00:12:03.440 I pay a copay, but that's about it. Right. Yeah. So some of the people that I talked

00:12:08.220 to, it came down to some of it was confusion onto what was covered and what wasn't. And

00:12:13.280 by the time they got the bill, it was too late. And then they disputed it. And they were like,

00:12:17.200 that's true. You call the VA $30,000 in the hole because of that, by the way. So like that

00:12:22.460 actually has impacted me personally. And that was multiple of the, of the people. And they

00:12:26.780 say, you know, I've been on the phone. I, I, one guy had been disputing it for two and a

00:12:30.500 half years. Um, but he's, he's an auto mechanic. He's a single dad. He doesn't have time and

00:12:35.040 he can't hire a lawyer. Right. He's like, I, every time I get on the phone with someone,

00:12:37.940 I have to retell the story. And it's of course, then they forward you to the next VA representative

00:12:42.320 who doesn't. So part of it is the system. Um, and particularly some of these people that

00:12:46.560 are in like rural areas, like there's not VA clinics. Right. So it's like, you know, you

00:12:50.700 get in a car accident, you go to the ER and then you have to relearn how to walk and, you

00:12:55.220 know, relearn how to like speak. And all of a sudden you're 20 K in the hole. And you're

00:12:59.340 like, so a lot of it was, was, you know, not intentional of course. And that's why,

00:13:04.020 like for me, it had to be medical bill debt because I'm not paying for that E4 that bought

00:13:07.860 a Ford Raptor for a hundred grand when he got his $10,000 signing bonus. Like we all

00:13:12.160 know, it's probably pretty common for sure. Like, you know, you know, since we were in

00:13:15.620 the military, we can speak about it cause it's our own, but you know, a lot of us are not

00:13:19.820 the most financially responsible. Um, and, and, and this was not a, you know, a bailout for

00:13:25.020 those people. This is for people that, you know, had a circumstances that, you know, that

00:13:28.840 was not, uh, in, you know, intended, um, and us just trying to alleviate a little

00:13:33.140 bit of that burden for them and hopefully, um, you know, have them go into the holidays

00:13:37.520 with a giant weight off their shoulder, which from those conversations, a hundred percent

00:13:41.360 is what happened. So.

00:13:43.200 Well, I mean, look, I, I mean, just a little bit, mine's very similar to, to a small fraction

00:13:49.840 of a percentage of what these guys are dealing with. But I had a, uh, a, uh, pectoral tear,

00:13:55.440 like a complete rupture of my pectoral muscle. And I went into that. I was training jujitsu.

00:14:01.820 I went in that afternoon to the ER. Uh, they had it looked at, called the VA. I'm like, Hey,

00:14:08.060 I went into the ER. They're like, cool. We got you covered. They reimbursed. Then I went

00:14:12.080 to the surgeon to talk with, or a specialist to talk about what surgery I needed, submitted

00:14:18.220 it, went through all the verification, went through all the process. And the VA came back

00:14:22.100 and they said, uh, yeah, you're not in our system. And I'm like, wait, what are you talking

00:14:27.680 about? You, you already paid for my ER visit, but you literally paid for my ER visit, which

00:14:33.460 is right. They should pay for it. I said, if you, if I'm not in your system, why, why did

00:14:37.900 you pay for that ER visit? Well, but you didn't fill out the paperwork. Right. So I fill it out

00:14:42.820 again. I sent it in. They said, I called them up. I said, Hey, I need to have the surgery

00:14:46.160 taken care of. Uh, they said, yeah, we see your paperwork. I'm like, great, cool. We approve.

00:14:51.420 They're like, Oh no, you filled it out incorrectly. You need to submit this form. So I submitted

00:14:55.820 the form. Oh no. Now it's this form. Now it's that form. Now it's this form. Meanwhile,

00:14:59.920 the surgeon's telling me, Hey, you have a short window on this surgery. If you don't get this

00:15:05.020 repaired, the likelihood of this healing diminishes greatly. So I'm like, well, F it. Like I got

00:15:11.860 to have the surgery. So I wouldn't have the surgery 30 grand later called the VA. I'm like,

00:15:16.060 Hey, I had to have the surgery. Nope, no approval. I went through multiple scenarios.

00:15:21.420 Of trying to get it approved and trying to get it taken care of. I'm in the whole 30 grand. Now,

00:15:27.020 fortunately, I'm very grateful. I'm in the position where I can take care of that, but a lot of people

00:15:31.140 aren't. And that sucks, especially when you're promised certain benefits for your hard work

00:15:38.660 and your efforts and the things that you've done. Yeah. That's such a good example. And that is like,

00:15:43.660 there are thousands of those examples. And that's, I think why a lot of these people are in the

00:15:48.500 situation they're in and you hit the nail on the head. You know, I had a similar situation where

00:15:52.880 when I got out of the service, they couldn't see me for 10 months. Right. Um, we now I have private

00:15:58.500 healthcare cause I get it with born primitive. So like, it wasn't that big of a deal. I just wanted

00:16:02.020 to get in the system and get like my first intake appointment. Um, but so I, you know, I was able to,

00:16:08.100 you know, when I got bronchitis, just go down and get it, you know, cope it, not a huge deal.

00:16:12.060 Had I gotten a car accident, um, and I wasn't employed, you know what I mean? And which probably

00:16:17.380 happens with some transitioning veterans who, uh, maybe haven't gotten employment yet. They're,

00:16:21.520 they're trying to figure it out. Um, that could be a financially devastating event, life event.

00:16:26.100 Right. Um, so it's, uh, obviously something needs to change. Um, hopefully, you know, with,

00:16:31.820 with, you know, Trump coming back, they can make that a priority. Um, he seems to, you know,

00:16:36.300 kind of be, he seems to be aware of, of some of these shortfalls. Um, and, uh, it seems that

00:16:42.120 anything the government runs is, you know, just super inefficient and frustrating. And, and you,

00:16:47.900 you just get on the phone with a VA rep and you can see it right away. Uh, you know what I mean?

00:16:52.000 Like it's, it's, you're just like, man, I'm, there's no way this, this person is not going to

00:16:55.140 help me. You know what I mean? They're not, but I will say they're not people. Yeah. Well,

00:16:59.080 I will say some, yeah, I, the ones I've dealt with are, are good people. They're just in a

00:17:05.800 shitty system, but I, I do believe they're decent people. And I want to make that clarification.

00:17:12.340 Yeah. I've had a few like reps on the phone that were fantastic. Unfortunately, in my experience,

00:17:17.660 it was inconsistent. You'd have a phenomenal, you know, lady, super nice. And no, I'm going to get,

00:17:21.460 go out of my way. And then you have another person who just was like, seemed like that's the last

00:17:26.360 thing they wanted to be doing. And it was just giving you the runaround. So I think, you know,

00:17:30.740 it could definitely use some work. And, you know, at the end of the day, we just want to make sure

00:17:34.660 the people who serve their country are taken care of. And, and hopefully, you know, this puts us on

00:17:40.780 a path back to, you know, we made a very small impact. I mean, I think it's going to end up being

00:17:45.340 about 6,000 veterans, which is great. But if I'm being realistic, like we're not even making a dent.

00:17:51.820 So that's why next year, standby, it's already in the works. We're going to, we're going to try to

00:17:56.480 increase that number quite a bit. I appreciate the humility, but to impact 6,000 veterans,

00:18:04.140 people that have served this country, that's, that's more than a dent, you know, and it may

00:18:09.200 not feel like that in the grand scheme of things. And I appreciate that you guys want to do more.

00:18:13.640 And of course, I'm here to support and help you with that. But yeah, I don't, I don't want to

00:18:17.660 dismiss 6,000 veterans that you guys have served. I mean, you're doing a phenomenal work. You know,

00:18:24.400 I do have a question though, and this one might be a little bit controversial. And you said it a

00:18:28.820 minute ago where we can talk about this because we've been a little bit in the system. And I,

00:18:33.600 and I don't put myself at the same level as you and other people that have done way more than I ever

00:18:38.520 did. But where is the line between receiving benefits based on the work and the agreements that

00:18:47.440 we've made and then just taking advantage of the system? Because I've also seen veterans who are like,

00:18:52.800 well, I need a veteran discount at this and I need this and I need that. It's like, dude, like,

00:18:59.040 congrats on your service. But did you do that for a perpetual discount on everything for the rest of

00:19:03.720 your life? Or did you do it because you wanted to serve your country?

00:19:08.480 Yeah, I mean, I think it's a, it's a great question. And, and I'm just going to give you my honest

00:19:14.020 answer. I think an incredible amount of people take advantage of it. And I think you need to earn

00:19:20.280 the right to receive those benefits. Now I'm not the guy that's going to board the plane early.

00:19:25.380 I'm never asking for a veteran discount. I'm, I'm, I'm never going to park in the parking spot.

00:19:29.840 Every once in a while, you'll see one of those parking spots and like, I'm going to the end of

00:19:34.020 the parking lot and I will walk my ass to, you know, into the store. I don't need that front spot

00:19:38.460 because I serve my country free. You know what I mean? Like I, I, I, I reject a lot of that on a

00:19:43.760 personal level, just because that's not how I, you know, want to be. Um, I think when it comes

00:19:49.180 down to disability, that's where it gets to me very squirrely. Um, because there's definitely a

00:19:55.040 lot of people and I witnessed it that did nothing physically, right? They weren't in any danger.

00:20:00.160 They didn't beat up their body and are getting out and are hiring people to try to get, you know,

00:20:04.740 an 80% disability rating. And it's like, okay, you just did four years in the Navy and you were on a

00:20:09.300 ship. Why are you, why do you need 80% disability the rest of your life? And I think it's okay to

00:20:14.900 call that out. You know, I think, um, you know, there, there's tens of thousands of people that

00:20:22.100 are getting a check every month that, that don't, you know, deserve that. And even, you know, for,

00:20:26.380 for me, like my body was, was just beat to shit. And I only did eight years. Like some of these,

00:20:32.200 my, my teammates that did 20 plus, I mean, these guys, when they're 50, um, you know, are going to be

00:20:37.060 limping around the rest of their life. So for, in my opinion, for those types of guys,

00:20:41.240 they a hundred percent should get taken care of. Um, and me, even me on a personal level,

00:20:46.300 it's very weird for me to receive benefit from the government. So for me, my pledge to myself is

00:20:51.100 as long as I'm financially capable, every penny of that, that I get every year is going straight

00:20:56.380 to charity. Um, and I hope I can say until I take a dirt nap, hopefully many years from now that every

00:21:01.400 year that's the case. Now, of course, if for some reason there's some crazy financial hardship that I

00:21:05.820 face, I might have to, you know, go back on that, but that was kind of my promise to myself. It's

00:21:09.700 like, all right. Um, because of my, my, some of my success in business, there's no way I'm willing

00:21:16.220 to take a benefit from the government when there's other people that are more deserving. Um, and maybe

00:21:20.820 that's just my own way of kind of like, um, doing what I think is right. But to answer your question,

00:21:25.900 I think it is an issue. Um, and you know, we even had people that like, we're at a fob and like

00:21:31.980 a bomb went off two miles from the fob, right. And they're claiming PTSD PTSD. Like in this

00:21:39.640 situation, it was a female who's of course in a non-combat role and she had to get sent home from

00:21:44.560 deployment and is claiming she has like night terrors because literally like a little, like,

00:21:49.400 you know, IED went off two miles from the base. Right. And that's someone then got her, she got to

00:21:54.540 change commands and is probably going to get like full disability because she's going to say she has

00:21:58.020 night terrors. And it's like, okay, a person did four years in the Navy and they, now they're

00:22:02.200 getting, you know, three grand the rest of their life tax-free. Those are the ones that fire me up

00:22:06.620 because those people in my mind are clearly taking advantage of the system. And it's unfortunate.

00:22:11.380 Well, I mean, they're also stealing from, cause the gut, the, the government budget for the

00:22:16.820 department of defense is finite. It is not unlimited. And so they're stealing from those who could

00:22:22.660 otherwise have it. I've, I've been mocked for my criticism of the over and excessive

00:22:27.740 use of PTSD as a, as a diagnosed medical condition. I'm not saying it doesn't exist.

00:22:34.760 I'm saying that it is overused and abused and it does a disservice to those individuals

00:22:40.580 who are clearly and most definitely suffering from the fallout of traumatic experiences.

00:22:50.320 Absolutely. Yeah. I think that's you hit the nail on the head, man. I think that, that,

00:22:54.100 that is abused and it's for the same reason. I think the people that are abusing it, they're

00:22:58.620 doing it with very deliberate intent. Whereas a lot of the people that actually have PTSD

00:23:03.340 are actually the opposite. They're the ones that are kind of saying, Hey, I don't need

00:23:06.640 anyone's help and I'm good. And I don't, I don't, I don't deserve that. And it's like,

00:23:09.940 no, you're the one that actually deserves it. You're the one that's body is probably beat

00:23:13.680 to shit. You've gone, you've seen some combat, you've seen this. So no, you're the people,

00:23:17.960 the system is meant to help. And you know what I mean? And it ends up sometimes being the opposite.

00:23:23.760 I've got a friend who's an ER doc. And he says that when people come into the ER, they have a

00:23:30.040 list of questions. And those people who know the most about the system are the ones that raise the

00:23:34.660 biggest red flags because they know how to answer the questions and get their quote unquote drug of

00:23:40.100 choice. It's the guys that don't know about it, that, that are a little bit ignorant about the system

00:23:47.040 or the process that I think you can have a little bit more certainty that those are the people who

00:23:52.180 are coming there for the right reasons versus, versus just manipulating, uh, the, the opportunity

00:23:58.440 that's available to them. A hundred percent agree, man. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me a little bit about born

00:24:04.840 primitive. Cause I told you earlier, I've been, I've been using your shorts in particular for years and

00:24:09.580 years at this point. Uh, it seems like you started this because you did eight years with the seals.

00:24:15.300 Did you start born primitive while you were a seal? That's what it sounds like to me.

00:24:20.080 I actually started it a few months before I joined the Navy. Um, which is even earlier,

00:24:25.260 even earlier. Yeah. Horrible timing. I don't recommend it. Um, you know, I was at officer

00:24:29.940 candidate school trying to run a business, uh, with one bar of service, uh, with a, with a phone that,

00:24:35.320 you know, most people didn't have phones, uh, because what year was that? That was 2014.

00:24:40.120 Uh, and, uh, yeah, you know, it was just a little side hustle, you know, quick version. I developed

00:24:46.360 pair of compression shorts for Olympic weightlifters and, uh, and that was just our first

00:24:50.660 product. Um, and then it was just this little side hustle. Uh, started it with my, my wife at

00:24:55.480 the time, Mallory, um, Riley, who still runs the business with, uh, me and is the co-founder.

00:25:00.720 Um, you know, she's the, uh, CEO, is that right? Yeah, correct. Yeah. Um, and, uh, you know,

00:25:06.200 we were married at the time and, you know, we put in a good six and a half, if you count kind of the

00:25:12.200 before we were officially business for me, it was actually probably closer to seven, seven and a half,

00:25:16.480 uh, years before we even had an employee and before we even collected a paycheck. Um, so we were living

00:25:23.040 on a, on a single income, uh, you know, pretty much the first six and a half years I was in the Navy,

00:25:28.960 which was fine. You know, we're, we're simple people. We're from Indiana. Like we don't need

00:25:32.960 anything lavish. Like it wasn't like I was in hardship. Right. Um, but we were continuing to

00:25:38.840 reinvest every penny back into the business. Um, and you know, I think that's probably the biggest

00:25:45.120 kind of perspective I try to give people when they try to put this glamorous, romantic spin on

00:25:53.320 being an entrepreneur. Um, I, you know, and it's not like I want to be that guy, like telling war

00:25:57.960 stories about being an entrepreneur, but at the same time, I think it's, uh, my obligation to

00:26:02.060 remind people or tell them what it actually is like. And it's like, Hey man, you want to go put

00:26:06.840 in seven years where you don't make a penny. You get divorced every, every second of your day when

00:26:12.300 you're not in the military is dedicated to this thing. It's constant stress. All you're doing is

00:26:16.140 solving problems. You never have free time. Even when you're on vacation, you're working. Um, even when

00:26:21.580 you're literally on a helicopter doing your military job, you're answering emails on your iPhone that

00:26:25.960 you've, you know, stuffed in your mag pouch. Like if you want that life, if that sounds exciting,

00:26:30.900 then, then, then go for it. But I get a little bit fired up when people try to, you know, you know,

00:26:35.800 maybe give the must be nice comment or, um, you know, that they just think like it was handed to

00:26:41.280 you and it's like, you have no idea, man. Um, so we were fortunate that we were scrappy. I like to

00:26:46.420 use the term dumb enough, you know, like we weren't too dumb to not be good enough to like do the

00:26:51.800 business, but we, we weren't too smart that we like talked our way out of it. Cause if you had

00:26:56.240 applied rational thought to what we did, you know, all right, I'm going to OCS in two months.

00:27:00.980 Yeah. Let's launch this little compression short business. You know, like it made no sense. Um,

00:27:05.560 but we didn't know any better. And I was actually coming off of a failed business, um, right before

00:27:09.460 that. So again, I was dumb enough to just not be deterred and say, all right, we'll screw it.

00:27:13.500 Let's double down and try this again. Um, and, uh, Neo, now we're, we're, we're gonna hit our 11 year

00:27:18.860 mark and we have about 80 employees and we're sold all over the world. And, um, we're building a

00:27:24.760 58,000 square foot facility right down the road from here. Um, with our fulfillment center and

00:27:30.760 headquarters attached, it's 170 yards long. It's massive, um, big American flag on the roof and

00:27:36.720 the whole deal. So, uh, it's, uh, it's come a long way. Um, but it's been a long road. There's

00:27:42.820 been a, you know, obviously a lot of hardship and, and, and hard work put into it. Um, but that's,

00:27:47.520 I think for, you know, people that like us that are, you know, that that's just how we're wired,

00:27:51.760 man. There's always gotta be the next ridgeline you're trying to get to. And it's never ending.

00:27:55.660 You're never going to get to the summit ever. Um, so, um, just put your head down, get after it,

00:28:00.460 do the best you can. Man, I'm going to step away from the conversation briefly. I promise I'll get

00:28:06.560 right back to it. As a man who grew up without brothers, I always wanted one or more than one,

00:28:12.180 uh, someone to push me, test me, laugh and play with fight with and improve my life. Uh,

00:28:18.860 that wasn't in the card. So instead I created a band of brothers who would offer all the same

00:28:23.280 levels of accountability and growth. It's called the iron council. Now I remember the first man

00:28:29.340 to ever join us. His name is Mark gobloski. And as we've grown to serving thousands and thousands

00:28:36.260 of men across the world, I can see how many men wished the same thing I did when I was growing

00:28:42.200 up, a brother who would laugh and play and joke and tease and mock and ridicule, but also hold

00:28:48.660 accountable, test, challenge, push, motivate, inspire. And that's exactly what we're doing

00:28:57.160 inside the iron council. If you want to learn more and you want to become a brother with us,

00:29:03.040 go to order man.com slash iron council. That's order of man.com slash iron council. Now we open

00:29:10.020 up mid December. So we're about a week and a half away. December 15th is when we open up. You're

00:29:16.680 going to be put on a wait list. When you enter your name and email address, and I am going to send you

00:29:20.800 an email come December 15th and tell you to become a brother to us inside of the iron council. Again,

00:29:27.140 that's order of man.com slash iron council order of man.com slash iron council. Join us, connect with

00:29:34.200 us, be a brother to us, and we will be a brother to you. Do that right after the podcast for now. Let

00:29:39.560 me get back to it with bear. I love, I mean, I remember early years where I would stay up till

00:29:46.700 like 2 a.m. stuffing bags of, of battle planners and other things that we have available. And even

00:29:54.500 now, 10 years into the business, my kids, I've got four kids, 16, 13, uh, 11 and eight. I'm in the

00:30:03.180 garage, man. Like we're filling orders. We're sending hats. We're sending shirts. We're sending

00:30:07.260 planners. We're sending decals. My kids are the ones that are fulfilling those orders. People think

00:30:12.360 all the time it's this big glamorous, you know, operation. And at this point, you know, you might

00:30:17.560 get to it and you feel like maybe you've arrived to some degree, but at the end of the day, like

00:30:22.620 it requires those late nights, those early mornings, having your kids enlisted date night is spent

00:30:29.640 packing envelopes and printing shipping labels that most people just don't ever see. And they think

00:30:36.880 here's one critique I get a lot. And I want to share this with you because I think you would

00:30:43.280 probably agree with this is they'll, they'll say like, Ryan, I wish you'd have more like average

00:30:48.660 guys, ordinary average guys on the podcast. I'm like, no offense. You are an average guy.

00:30:54.520 The people, every, everybody else I've ever had on the podcast, over 500 interviews that I've done at

00:31:00.040 this point, they're all average. They've just been exceptional at a few things for a long period of

00:31:06.380 time. Yeah. Spot on, man. There's nothing. And that's, that's to me, I want to grab people

00:31:13.640 sometimes because I think they don't, they lack the self-confidence because they think this is some

00:31:18.260 elusive thing that only these elite people can achieve. And it's like, no, man, that's, you know,

00:31:24.100 you're looking at it all wrong. You know what I mean? You need to find a narrow lane that you're

00:31:29.480 passionate about and go at it with, you know, reckless abandon. And, you know, you can achieve

00:31:34.440 success with that approach. Um, so I, I kinda, I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. Like

00:31:39.480 at one side, I want people to know the, the, you know, how the, the real side of being an

00:31:44.580 entrepreneur, but at the same time, I want people to be encouraged that, you know, that, that they

00:31:50.160 can pursue it. If it's, if it's, if, if they're staring at the ceiling every night thinking about

00:31:54.640 it, that means they need to do it. Right. Um, if they're looking at it, oh, that looks glamorous

00:31:58.800 and cool. And I'll get some Instagram followers and, you know, maybe girls will want to, want to,

00:32:02.680 want to date me or something like that, then don't do it because those aren't the reasons you should

00:32:05.840 be doing that sort of thing. Um, but, um, but yeah, man, it's, it's not for everyone. You know,

00:32:11.440 I, I speak for, uh, at a, um, an event, uh, typically about every quarter it's called the

00:32:16.100 honor foundation and they bring mostly transitioning special operations guys and put them through like

00:32:20.620 little, I think it's about a three month bootcamp, you know, get revising your resume, how to do an

00:32:26.500 interview, how to network, all these things, really cool thing, great program they do for

00:32:29.840 these guys and girls. And typically they host an entrepreneur panel once a quarter for each class.

00:32:35.240 And they've invited me, it's local here in Virginia beach. Um, and you know, there's other service

00:32:40.220 members or former service members that are entrepreneurs as well. And they can just fire

00:32:43.440 away at questions. And I think typically they think I'm going to give this like sexy, glamorous

00:32:48.680 answer about how awesome it's going to be. And, you know, you should, yeah, definitely do it. And,

00:32:53.240 you know, for some of these guys, you know, it's like they've done 20 years. They're in

00:32:56.340 their forties. They're retired. They got three kids. They're married. They'd been gone 90%

00:33:01.260 of the time, their entire, you know, kids life. And I'm like, Hey man, now's not the

00:33:05.280 time to go try to start a coffee company, right? Uh, go work for the man. You know what

00:33:09.900 I mean? Build equity with your family, get up, be able to punch out at five every day

00:33:14.140 and not have to bring it home and be dealing with lawyers and bankers and, you know, emails

00:33:19.620 in the middle of the night and lawsuits and all the things that are going to come with what

00:33:23.320 you're about to do. Um, you know, maybe it's okay to go work for the quote man, right? It's

00:33:28.660 not always a bad thing to, to have consistency, but a little less responsibility. Um, or Hey,

00:33:36.300 if, if, if, again, if you're staring at the ceiling every night and you're wired for this,

00:33:40.040 then, then, okay, you can go for it, but just make sure you calculate that. Um, you know,

00:33:44.880 what is your financial risk, uh, threshold? How is your family right now? Are, you know,

00:33:50.060 have you built, do you need to take some time to build some equity back with the kids and the

00:33:53.400 wife? You know what I mean? These are all things that need to be considered when they kind of make

00:33:57.180 that, um, you know, kind of that assessment of whether I should do this or not. And I think a lot

00:34:01.320 of guys are surprised when I give that answer because I think they think I'm going to come

00:34:04.180 in and say, Oh yeah, go, go for it. Yeah. Slide the chips in. And, um, you know, there's a time

00:34:10.080 and place for that. I just don't think, you know, if you're 44 with three kids and a, and maybe a

00:34:15.080 marriage on the rocks that that's the time to say, all right, now I'm going to be gone 90% of the

00:34:18.520 time again. Cause I'm going to need to start this, this concept from scratch, from scratch,

00:34:22.880 you know? Well, I think one of the things that I'd really resonate and appreciate about your story

00:34:27.540 is that's not what you did. You didn't burn the bridges. You didn't go all in. You had this

00:34:32.420 career in the military. And while you were doing that, you did this side thing that you were

00:34:38.000 passionate and excited about, weren't making a whole lot of money, but over the course of a decade,

00:34:43.040 six, seven, eight, nine, 10 years, all of a sudden you get out of the military and now you turn a

00:34:48.220 business that you weren't making a dime in the first seven years, like you said, to a nine figure

00:34:53.320 business precisely because you did not burn the boats as they say. Yeah. You know, I, I hear that

00:35:00.840 a lot and I've even used it in some, in certain contexts, I would say burn the boats on relationships,

00:35:06.260 right? Like if, if you have a bad romantic relationship, you know, burn the boats, don't

00:35:10.120 look back cause you need to move on. There's, there's times where burning the boats is a hundred

00:35:13.080 percent applicable. But I think for a lot of people having a side hustle, uh, assuming you have

00:35:19.460 what it takes to be a self-starter. Um, I don't necessarily, I don't want you to slide the chips

00:35:24.740 all in because there's a chance there's a 93% chance it's not going to work. Right. So if you

00:35:29.980 were playing roulette, right. And you were going to slide all the chips in and you knew there was a

00:35:34.560 93% chance it was going to go red and you're putting it on black. You probably wouldn't make that bet.

00:35:39.700 Would you? Right. Um, maybe we've slide a couple of chips in and we hedge our other bets. So I think

00:35:44.600 with, um, with people that are, that are making that assessment, um, you know, they just have,

00:35:50.280 they got to keep that in mind. And I was fortunate, right. I, I was, uh, you know, getting a stable

00:35:54.960 paycheck. I had healthcare. Um, and you know, my worst case scenario wasn't bad, right. I was,

00:36:01.340 I was living a young man's dream, you know, as, as a young CEO. I mean, let's, let's be,

00:36:05.940 I mean, your worst case scenario based on your occupation of choice is that you would die. I mean,

00:36:10.800 let's not discount that. Right. Well, yeah, I meant as far as like a financial outcome, right?

00:36:15.260 Like if, if born primitive, just, I put six years in and finally it just imploded. All right. Do I

00:36:22.140 lose a lot of my life that I, you know, wasted, you know, towards this effort, um, and, and some

00:36:27.540 money? Yes. But I still have a stable job. I'm with, with the boys. I'm getting after it. I'm living

00:36:32.520 the dream that I wanted as a young man. Um, but some people don't have that fallback. So I think

00:36:38.820 if people are going to slide the chips in again, it just needs to be a little calculated, but I think

00:36:43.140 taking a nine to five and having it as a side hustle for a while, isn't a bad gig. Now your

00:36:48.540 lifestyle is going to suck. That's the only drawback with that. It's like, you're, you're never, you're

00:36:52.060 not going to have a free minute. And I even remember, I've told this story a few times, like Mal and I

00:36:56.620 went to Hawaii twice. Like we never took a vacation and finally we're like, all right, we got to take

00:37:00.520 like at least one vacation. I think it was on pre-deployment leave, right? So I'm about to deploy

00:37:03.980 for six or seven months. We went to Hawaii. Um, and we, cause it was what, five hours ahead of

00:37:10.160 East coast time. We would get up at four o'clock in the morning and start working until noon. That was

00:37:16.460 our, our deal. All right, we'll get up at like three 45. We're, we're on a computer by four and

00:37:20.860 we're working that way. We're working a normal workday with our employees. And then when the Starbucks

00:37:24.880 would open at like 6am, we would, we would shift over to the Starbucks and we'd go there to lunch.

00:37:29.160 And then, okay, now it's 1230. Let's go get some lunch. And now our vacation day starts,

00:37:32.920 right? We did that for six days straight. Um, for us, that was like implied. We didn't even

00:37:37.820 have to discuss it. There was no argument. Like we're like, of course we're doing this. Cause

00:37:41.040 that's how we were wired for some people. And they might think you're a total maniac for doing that.

00:37:45.460 You know, you're on vacation. You're going to bed at seven 45 at night. That's a little nuts,

00:37:48.840 right? You should be, you know, out having a good time and doing what normal people do on vacation,

00:37:53.140 but that's what it took. Right. Um, and, um, there are, there, there is collateral damage that

00:37:59.120 comes with that approach. You know, eventually that, that check engine light's going to come on.

00:38:03.220 Um, and it definitely did one for our relationship, but I think too, just for me,

00:38:07.340 just burning out. Um, and, uh, and that's something you gotta be cautious with, but, uh,

00:38:13.220 that's one of many examples I can give where we had no choice, but to do what others were not

00:38:18.860 willing to do in order to succeed because we didn't have the financial backing. I wasn't out

00:38:23.620 talking with private equity guys and having them cut me checks so I can sponsor the new sexiest,

00:38:29.180 fancy athlete in, in, in, you know, all these endorsements that we had to do with the old

00:38:32.960 fashioned way. Um, and it took longer to get there. Um, but I'm, I'm glad we did it that way

00:38:39.320 because now we know, you know, one, how to be profitable cause you have to be profitable in a

00:38:43.360 business like that, that isn't getting backed by a PE firm. Uh, and two, you're, you become super

00:38:48.040 resourceful with how you deploy capital. Um, so in the event we raise capital in a couple of years,

00:38:52.980 it's going to be, it's going to be, you know, game changer because I know how to use it. Right.

00:38:58.440 I wasn't cut a $10 million check two years in like some of these companies. And then they,

00:39:02.840 they, they get a false sense of success. It's like, well, of course everyone knows about your

00:39:06.720 brand. Cause you got 10 million bucks from a guy from New York. Right. Uh, whereas, you know,

00:39:11.460 if you're able to cut your teeth with, with no outside capital, um, you know, we had combined in our

00:39:17.200 bank account, 3,800 bucks, um, when we started it, um, and, uh, had to put two grand in. So cut,

00:39:23.000 cut the old net worth in half and let's do this thing, you know? Yeah. I love it. I love it. Was,

00:39:29.300 was, uh, Mallory always on board with you or were there, cause a lot of guys are like, Hey,

00:39:35.000 I want to start this thing. I want to, you know, start a business side hustle, whatever.

00:39:39.580 How do I get my wife on board? That's a question I get a lot.

00:39:43.460 Um, I honestly, at first it was just me and this is the very, very beginning. So I'm, I will always

00:39:51.480 still consider her a co-founder, but there was six or six to eight months of me staying up real late

00:39:56.880 at night, researching supply chain and how to develop a product and reading these books and

00:40:00.580 stuff where it was just him doing another one of his crazy ideas. That's probably, you know,

00:40:04.620 whatever. Um, but once it started going just because she was a good spouse, she just started

00:40:09.840 helping like in her spare time. She was a dental hygienist, but she'd be coming home and all

00:40:14.360 right, let me help with this order. And this, and then when I went to OCS, it was kind of like,

00:40:19.180 she didn't have a choice because I was like, well, Hey, I might not have my phone for 12 weeks. So

00:40:22.740 like, I kind of need you to help with this now at the time, of course, it's very small. So it's not

00:40:26.280 like it's running the entity we're running now. So it just kind of happened. Um, and you know,

00:40:32.360 that's one of those things I would say for anyone that's like looking to launch your own

00:40:37.100 business. I would highly, um, advise against doing any business with your spouse. I think if I were

00:40:43.580 to go back and do it again, you know, if I, if I get remarried, um, I'm not, I'm not involving them

00:40:50.000 in my business at all. You're saying that because the business might cause you to get remarried or

00:40:54.380 what? Well, I'm just saying like, like, because, cause Mal and I aren't married anymore. We're

00:40:59.060 divorced. Yeah. We, we have, I didn't know that. Sorry. I didn't, I didn't know that. I got it.

00:41:04.240 Okay. So, um, yeah, that was about six years ago. Um, but the cool thing is, I didn't know

00:41:09.600 that. Yeah, no, all good. The cool thing is run great terms. Uh, she's, uh, she's a married now

00:41:14.920 with a, with a beautiful little girl and another one on the way. Um, and it's, it's cool, honestly,

00:41:20.180 to be able to like, just still run a business together. Um, and it's, it's completely cordial.

00:41:25.620 It's chill. Honestly, it's way easier. It's way easier. We kind of joke about that now. It's like,

00:41:30.120 you know, I don't have to go home and argue with you at home. I could just, you know,

00:41:32.880 you can yell at me and then I get to leave. You know what I mean? So it's, it's funny.

00:41:37.400 Um, but, uh, but if I ever get remarried, it's like, all right, that I'm not involving the two

00:41:44.020 because that your spouse needs to be, in my opinion, your refuge from, you know, the battles

00:41:49.800 you're fighting during the day. And the last thing I need is another business partner. And I go home

00:41:55.060 and we're drinking a glass of wine, talking about that supplier or that lawyer email we got,

00:41:59.440 or that lawsuit that we got coming or whatever, all these things that come in when you're a

00:42:03.580 business owner that, you know, really can be a five source of stress. I want to separate the two.

00:42:08.360 So I did that one perhaps the wrong way the first go. Uh, but I learned a lot. So it's all good.

00:42:14.300 That's yeah. Well, when you were saying I, there was a disconnect for me, I'm like, wait,

00:42:18.180 hold on a second. I got to figure this out. I did not know that, but that's, that's a very unique

00:42:23.600 situation. Um, is there content like personal contention that gets in the way at times of the

00:42:31.760 business stuff or how have you guys been able to separate the personal and the professional life?

00:42:39.500 Um, we're, we're both pretty hard headed. So we kind of, we kind of argue like siblings

00:42:45.600 sometimes every once in a while, we're way better than we used to be. When we were married,

00:42:49.400 we argued like spouses, right? Now we argue like siblings. So every once in a while to flare up

00:42:54.880 when there's a difference in, in business opinion on an approach. Um, and, um, but it's, it's pretty

00:43:01.180 minimal and honestly, it's way, it's way better. And what's cool for me is like, she has earned

00:43:06.860 every piece of equity she has in this company because we were in her and I were in the trenches

00:43:11.960 together. Like we six, seven years, like I already talked about it. Like no one knows to the extent

00:43:17.500 we were in the trenches, just duking it out, you know, trying to build this thing. Um, so it's

00:43:21.800 cool for me as this thing grows to see as her equity value grows, like she earned that. Right.

00:43:29.300 And, and, and it's cool that, you know, because she was a dental hygienist, knew nothing about

00:43:33.700 business. Right. And just got thrown into this, um, and has absolutely crushed it and is a complete

00:43:38.800 savage now. Um, and, uh, and so that's, that's cool for me to see, um, that like, all right,

00:43:44.260 she, you know, she completely evolved and, and now like she, she can hang in any room

00:43:48.500 at any level. I don't care if it's a fortune 500 company, it's their C-suite, you throw

00:43:52.780 her in a meeting with them. Um, she will throw down and she will hold her own. That's for

00:43:56.740 sure.

00:43:57.500 Yeah. I, man, that's, that's such an interesting scenario. You know, I, I think about with my

00:44:03.760 own situation and in my divorce, you know, I, I have the business a hundred percent. My ex

00:44:09.200 helped me with some things here and there, but never involved her directly in the company

00:44:13.780 as an employee or, or, or a worker or something of the company. She just supported where she

00:44:19.560 could. And, uh, yeah, that's interesting, man.

00:44:23.600 Yeah. And part of it honestly was definitely contributed was like, because I wanted to go

00:44:29.320 to the SEAL teams. Right. So, uh, that was a point of contention when I told her, Hey, I

00:44:33.940 have to go do this. Um, you know, I was 25 at the time and she thought I had given up the

00:44:38.420 dream and I, I lied. I hadn't, it was still eating me up inside. And I kind of, I kind

00:44:44.040 of gave her an ultimatum one day of like, Hey, I'm getting back in the pipeline. Um, I'm

00:44:48.260 going to try to apply for this and get into the program. And Hey, if you're not cool with

00:44:53.200 it, it's totally fine. But like take 24 hours and give me your final decision. And if you're

00:44:57.320 not going to support it, it's all good, but we need to go our separate ways. Um, and then

00:45:01.240 I remember that the next morning she like walked into the kitchen. He's like, all right,

00:45:03.700 you can do it, but you better not effing quit. And I was like, okay, that's fair. I won't

00:45:07.100 quit. Let's do this. Um, but when you're gone as much as we're gone and then trying to run

00:45:13.100 a business, eventually that takes a toll. Um, because it had been many times the burden

00:45:18.520 was on her shoulders, you know, when I was out of comms and she couldn't get ahold of

00:45:21.940 me, um, or just, you know, work trips that are just busy, you know, we're up at six o'clock

00:45:26.620 in the morning, get back to our hotel rooms at midnight. And like, I can't contribute as

00:45:29.640 much, of course, in those, um, timeframes, you know, then she's like, all right, well,

00:45:33.560 hey, this wasn't my dream, but I'm doing all the work. Like what the heck, you

00:45:36.340 know? Um, and I can totally understand that now, hopefully now she knows it's her

00:45:40.600 dream as well, because it's allowing her to provide a great life for her family.

00:45:44.000 And, you know, we'll give her hopefully long-term financial security for

00:45:48.540 generations. Um, so it is her dream now. Um, but maybe it's not the one she initially

00:45:53.680 signed up for.

00:45:54.720 You said you lied. Did you lie or did you not know?

00:45:57.960 Uh, what about joining the teams and, and, and that, that pursuit that you had, it sounds

00:46:05.580 like since the time you were little, was it that you blatantly lied about it or you just

00:46:10.140 didn't know? And you kind of came to some conclusions. What did that look like?

00:46:14.340 I knew I wanted to do it. And when I got out of college, um, I had to repair a shoulder

00:46:19.200 surgery, um, because I was banged up from playing football. So that was kind of like,

00:46:23.300 yeah, let me go take a normal job. I need, I need to get in different kind of physical

00:46:27.840 shape. Cause I was a big meathead linebacker and you know, that doesn't help you, uh, in

00:46:31.800 SEAL training. So I was like, all right, I got loose. I got to cut 20 pounds, learn how

00:46:34.740 to run this and that. And I need to fix my shoulder. Right. So that required me to get

00:46:39.620 a real job. Right. So that's holding the over. Um, and once I healed up the shoulder

00:46:44.360 up, I started training for, to, to get into the buds pipeline. Um, but I was getting a ton

00:46:48.640 of pressure from her family and mainly my mom. My dad was cool with it, but it was like

00:46:52.980 my mom, both of her parents and her were like, you know, just so against this. Um,

00:46:57.920 and it ended up, you know, culminating where I ultimately really kind of rescinded my, my

00:47:02.040 application. I was in the process of applying, uh, to, to get into the officer pipeline.

00:47:06.260 And I finally was like, all right, you guys win, screw it. I'm out. Um, and I kind of

00:47:10.120 like, you know, it was, it was in frustration, but I kind of, you know, just said it, but, but

00:47:13.940 I couldn't kick it. Um, so about a year went by, um, and I just couldn't kick it. So I

00:47:19.120 started secretly training at the pool and at the track again, without telling anyone,

00:47:22.980 um, and just kind of seeing if I could get back into shape and this, I mean, I was in

00:47:26.660 shape, but the specific for that, like the PST, um, and then ultimately I had to give

00:47:32.160 her that ultimatum because she, it was funny. She actually found, uh, I've told this story

00:47:35.720 a few times, but she found where she started to get suspicious as she, she found wet rope

00:47:40.660 in my gym bag. Um, because we, I was doing some drown proofing in the pool where you tie

00:47:45.700 your, your hands behind your back, um, and, and practice that, which we ultimately have to

00:47:50.300 do with your hands and feet tied. But when you're practicing it, you obviously just do

00:47:54.100 one or the other. And she found this string of wet rope in my gym bag. And she was like,

00:47:57.480 cause she was like going to throw my, my gym laundry in or something. And she was like,

00:48:00.640 walked into the kitchen, like, what is this? You know? And it's like, how do you, uh, how

00:48:05.840 do you talk your way out of that one? You know, it's, you gotta just come clean. Right. So

00:48:09.500 I was like, well, it was some sort of sexual fetish. She knew exactly that you were training

00:48:13.560 for, for seals. Yeah. Well, you'd have to ask her, maybe she did, but you know, maybe,

00:48:18.060 maybe the news I gave her was better than she thought was coming. Um, but, uh, then I, you

00:48:22.620 know, I kind of had to have to have the conversation of, Hey, you know, as a grown man, um, you have

00:48:28.960 to be able to pursue the things that you're passionate about. And if anyone inhibits you

00:48:34.760 from doing that, there will likely be some form of resentment towards those people the rest

00:48:39.340 of your life, even if it's deep down inside of you. Right. Like maybe it's not seen on the

00:48:43.320 surface, but I just told her like, Hey, if, if I'm 50 years old and I'm still thinking about this

00:48:48.100 and you and your parents and my mom were the people that didn't let me at least try, um,

00:48:53.660 that's going to create some energy inside that I don't think will, um, manifest in a good way.

00:48:59.740 So, Hey, I just got to do this. And if there's consequences, you know, consequences be damned,

00:49:03.760 but this is what's going to happen. Um, in an hindsight, I'm very glad that I did. I think my life

00:49:08.040 path would have been a whole lot different. Um, but it comes with, you know, with those decisions,

00:49:12.500 there's collateral damage that can come with those sorts of things. You just got to be willing to

00:49:15.860 accept that. I think you may have answered the question, but I want to just dive a little bit

00:49:20.040 deeper given where you are right now in hindsight, if you were to rewind to those moments, would you do

00:49:28.640 it the same way or would you do it differently? It's a tough one. Um, I think, I think I would do it

00:49:35.820 the same way. Um, I, I, I, I don't have any regrets on choosing to go into the seal teams.

00:49:41.700 I think that is a hundred percent something I needed to do. It was where I belonged. I met so

00:49:46.960 many good men that are just, it's so humbling to be around that type of those type of people. Um,

00:49:53.880 it was like every, every room I walked in, I'm just like, man, I am the least accomplished man in

00:49:59.320 this room. And it's really humbling to be around just that caliber of individual, because I think 90%

00:50:03.720 of our success in life is just surrounding yourself with the right people. And I was fortunate to be

00:50:08.080 in that environment for about eight years. Um, so no regrets there. Obviously I have great

00:50:12.540 relationships that I'll carry the rest of my life with these guys. Um, you know, one thing I do

00:50:18.260 reflect on a little bit is did I push the pace a little too much, right? Um, was I a little bit too

00:50:24.160 of a, too much of a maniac as it pertains to obviously doing the active duty job, but being so

00:50:29.800 relentless about born primitive when there was free time, um, you know, could I have throttled

00:50:35.240 it down one knot, um, and had, you know, maybe on those vacations been like, all right, we're not

00:50:40.660 working for six days. We're going to recharge the battery. Or when you get off of a, a one month

00:50:45.920 training trip, um, and you get home and you haven't seen your spouse in a month, maybe saying,

00:50:50.940 Hey, we're going to take 48 hours and do things we enjoy together as, as, as a couple, not like, Hey,

00:50:55.640 did you see that email from so-and-so and Hey, we, you know, we got this lawyer, we got to take

00:50:59.420 a call with blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like right back into work mode. Um, I, I, I don't know

00:51:05.260 if I had toned it down, if we would have achieved what we achieved. Um, so that's the, that's the

00:51:11.600 dilemma. It's like, well, if you want to be above average, then yeah, you can tone it down a notch,

00:51:16.960 but then all these things you have now might not exist. Um, but you'd probably still be married,

00:51:21.340 right. So it's, um, it's something that you wrestle with a little bit. Um, but, but as you

00:51:27.020 know, like in the early days, especially before you have infrastructure and people that are like

00:51:32.300 kind of, you know, delegating some of the tasks, like it's all on you. Um, you know, I remember

00:51:37.320 American Eagle was trying to sue us. Um, we had stitched, uh, uh, a thread on a, on a, on a back

00:51:44.940 pocket of a, of a pair of jean shorts that they thought was similar to theirs, which was ridiculous.

00:51:49.420 I didn't even know, I didn't even know you could trademark a thread pattern, right? So this is

00:51:52.620 just me being great. And here it's just, it's just Mal and I, uh, and they're trying to sue us.

00:51:57.520 And I, I had to get on a call with three partners from a law firm that probably all billed $2,000 an

00:52:02.920 hour. It's a New York city law firm. And I'm on a work trip working 14 hour days, shooting live

00:52:09.080 rounds in the kill house all day long, working out in the morning range during the day, night runs,

00:52:13.680 the whole deal and get back to my hotel room in a Marietta, 11 o'clock at night and having to prep

00:52:17.880 to do a call with these lawyers. And I'm studying, I'm going, I found my old Yale pre-law notes about,

00:52:25.040 um, trademark and all these other things that I'm reading through it. So I could come to this

00:52:29.240 because we can't afford a lawyer, right? Uh, these were the things, these are like the daily,

00:52:33.960 this is the normal life, you know, day in the life of a, of an entrepreneur. Um, and I just think

00:52:39.480 back to some of those moments, uh, you know, it's just like, it's crazy. Now that ultimately worked

00:52:44.020 out and actually went really well, we, we agreed to, uh, both donate money to charity together

00:52:48.140 as a joint effort. Um, because I actually, my, my notes came in handy. Um, and it was wild because

00:52:54.860 I was actually able to cite some precedent on the call. And I was like, listen, I know you guys are

00:52:58.960 all $6,000 to combine right now. I don't think it'll look good for your client. If you go after

00:53:03.300 an active duty veteran, we actually didn't do anything wrong. So, Hey, let's, let's do a feel good

00:53:07.200 ending to this. Let's donate some money to charity together and call it good. And they ended up taking

00:53:10.760 that deal. So, um, one of the many stories where it's, but yeah, she was not, she wasn't sleeping

00:53:17.680 cause it was her like mistake. So she was like, did I just end the company? And you have all these

00:53:22.240 lawyers breathing out her neck and sending us these scary letters. And I was like, all right,

00:53:25.280 let me try to take this one. But you know, kind of had to fake it till I made it. Um, but they didn't

00:53:29.720 know I was, you know, an hour earlier was shooting live rounds in a kill house. And now I got to put that

00:53:34.800 cap on and pretend like this stoic businessman that knows something about trademark precedent. You know what

00:53:40.680 I mean? Just ridiculous. So it's, it is interesting because I think to your point, uh, many, the

00:53:49.240 overwhelming majority of men that I've had on the podcast have done extraordinary things to their

00:53:53.640 own degree, whether it's business or physical acumen or, you know, anything. Um, and then I'll

00:54:00.640 hear from a lot of guys, as I told you earlier, like, Oh, we want average guys, ordinary guys on.

00:54:05.360 And I'm like, man, you wouldn't listen to the grandpa who had five kids and 27 grandkids and

00:54:11.820 made 80 grand a year and retired with the Rolex and just lived a quiet, harmonious life. You wouldn't

00:54:19.620 listen to that. And, and I know that because we've had those people on, you don't listen.

00:54:24.780 It's always the ones who are a little bit obsessive, a little bit compulsive, uh, go over the top,

00:54:32.620 go all in, pour everything into it that people are most interested in. It seems like based on

00:54:37.980 at least the numbers I have. Yeah. Well, hopefully the listeners can get a little nugget out of this,

00:54:45.580 but, but I, I definitely have always been someone that was, I pushed the pace. I, I, I take a lot of

00:54:51.700 risk and I think that's another thing. It's like, I believe success is cheesy as it sounds is right at

00:54:59.200 the edge of failure. And I, and I, and I, I do believe a lot of the reason, a lot of people

00:55:03.440 don't succeed is just purely they're, they're unwilling to take risk. Um, and thank God for

00:55:08.760 whatever reason, I've always been the opposite. Like I love risk and I'm like, you know, and it's

00:55:12.840 maybe it's to a fault in some cases. Now I have my brother who's our CFO. That's kind of like my

00:55:17.060 break. Um, but I'm, I'm, I tend to be all gas and it's like, you know, gut instinct, um, Kentucky

00:55:24.160 windage, like just let's go with this thing and see what happens. And that, that was kind of how the

00:55:27.800 veterans day thing played out. I was just sitting there and I'm like, man, what if we could do 5

00:55:31.360 million in debt? Like that's, you know, most people would say, you're insane. What are you

00:55:34.160 talking about? Um, you, you gotta be a little nuts, right? Um, so, um, I don't know where else

00:55:40.680 go with that one, but I, I believe take some risk, particularly early on. Um, you know, I think as you

00:55:46.440 get older and there's more people dependent on you, that's where I, I start to, you know, assume a

00:55:51.960 little less risk. Um, you know, now I'm a father, I got a little three and a half year old running

00:55:55.660 around. I do look at the world a little bit differently, but Hey, if you're in your late

00:55:59.720 twenties and you're single with no kids, take all the risks because the worst case that can happen

00:56:05.500 is like nothing. Right. You know, like, okay, worst case, you got to get a shitty apartment,

00:56:08.940 uh, and eat ramen for a year. Uh, big deal. You know what I mean? That's fine. You know,

00:56:13.880 we still have 90, you know, so much more than any other country when you compare it. So, um,

00:56:19.380 if you're in that boat, take advantage of it, take some risk.

00:56:21.840 That's, that's exactly what I tell like guys who are in their twenties are like, what should

00:56:26.200 I do? I'm like, you shouldn't do anything except for anything that you feel like doing

00:56:30.420 at this point, go on all the vacations, go on all the travel, date as many women as you

00:56:36.660 can, like do whatever you can. Cause it only gets more constrictive, which is not always

00:56:42.660 a bad thing by the way, as we mature, we don't need to sow our oats that way. But if right

00:56:48.700 now, man, if you can afford a one-way ticket to Thailand and that's it, go do that. Cause

00:56:53.780 you'll figure out a way to get home if you want, but go figure it out, man. Like I wish

00:57:00.040 I would have done that. I didn't, but I wish I would have.

00:57:03.020 Yeah. I think that's a good point. And I think that, that kind of lesson also applies to,

00:57:09.440 I think, transitioning service members, um, is because I, I talk with a lot of guys that

00:57:14.000 are on their way out. And I think they get this paralysis of analysis of like, I don't

00:57:17.940 know what my path is. And like, I don't know, I'm not sure what to do. And I could like go

00:57:21.860 to wall street, new finance, but that just sounds crazy. Or I could go be a contractor

00:57:25.580 and basically do the same job. And I'm still gone a lot. Um, and usually what I tell them

00:57:29.900 is, Hey man, stop putting so much pressure on yourself because you don't have to get the

00:57:33.340 first pick. Right. Right. You can go work for that contractor. And in four months, if you

00:57:36.740 don't like it, change your job. Uh, same thing with, you know, college kids that are

00:57:40.980 worried about, Oh my God, like what job do I take? Hey man, just pick a lane. That's

00:57:45.060 not going to be what you do anyway. And because every one of those, uh, life events is an

00:57:50.140 opportunity to learn an incredible amount. Even if it's a business, you launch it, it

00:57:53.940 fails. My, the amount of things I learned when I failed my first business, I immediately

00:58:00.220 applied it to born primitive. And now there's all these landmines that I didn't know about

00:58:04.480 before that I'm now hyper vigilant on because I just did it the wrong way. The first time

00:58:09.140 there was an incredible amount of value in three and a half years of my life that I had

00:58:13.680 wasted towards this other effort, um, that I could immediately apply. So in, in the moment,

00:58:19.920 was it the wrong move to try to start that business? Yes. But was I able to weaponize

00:58:24.420 that to create success for the next go at it? A hundred percent. So that's kind of what I

00:58:28.440 tell guys. It's like, Hey, don't get up. Don't get paralyzed with analysis on, on which

00:58:32.620 course to take, get a direction to travel, move out on it. Um, and then figure it out,

00:58:38.280 right. You're going to get new data. That's going to come in. Your life's going to change.

00:58:41.360 You might get a kid. You might get a, you know, you might start dating a girl or whatever,

00:58:44.660 like things are going to change anyway. Um, so don't put too much pressure on yourself,

00:58:48.580 um, and figuring out what that is because ultimately I think, uh, guys will find clarity.

00:58:53.500 Yeah. And you can only find it once you go. I mean, you, you went to Yale. What, what is

00:58:57.200 your, what is your degree? Uh, political science, political science. So, I mean, and yeah,

00:59:03.400 I'm sure you have some, some ideas and insight into that, but now all of a sudden you're this,

00:59:09.000 this business owner that's running this nine figure business, a little bit different than

00:59:15.020 what you may have set out for when you started your, uh, your, your college, uh, years.

00:59:20.800 Oh yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, how random is it? I'm, I, you know, I'm in the garage trying

00:59:25.120 to figure out how to make a compression short, right? Like that's not like two years before that,

00:59:29.600 I would be like, what are you talking about? Right. So, and that's my whole point is, is,

00:59:33.960 is you're not going to have some crystal ball that's going to lay it all out for you.

00:59:37.520 But I, but again, I think, you know, guys need to take action to get, get a direction of travel

00:59:43.300 in some direction. Right. Um, so you can kind of orient yourself to what's going on. Um, I think

00:59:48.900 guys that are just comfortable with the status quo, um, well, you're going to keep getting the status

00:59:53.680 quo. Right. And in some cases that's great. Um, if that's the place you're at in your life,

00:59:57.760 but if you want something to change, you gotta, you gotta make it happen. Right.

01:00:01.080 Do you see any foreseeable pivots in your life? Obviously you're going to continue to evolve and

01:00:06.700 adapt with born primitive that that's a given, but are there any major pivots, whether it's selling

01:00:13.580 the company and pursuing something completely different or something life altering as opposed

01:00:20.460 to just little adjustments along the way? Um, I don't think so. You know, I think we'll probably

01:00:26.140 try to take on a minority investment for born primitive, uh, in the next two years. Um, because

01:00:31.540 I think if done right and with the right partner, that can be a force multiplier for us to become

01:00:36.620 even bigger because part of me now wants to see, I just want to see how big we can make

01:00:40.940 this thing. Um, and, um, particularly with, as I've realized, as our platform gets bigger,

01:00:47.680 our ability to give back and do things like we did for veterans day continues to get bigger.

01:00:52.460 Uh, and that's a huge source of, of personal fulfillment for me. Um, and, you know, in a

01:00:58.300 way, I guess, self-serving, like, you know, when I get to call a veteran on the phone and

01:01:01.560 tell them they're $183,000 bills now zero, that's a pretty cool experience. Um, and, and, and to

01:01:07.480 know that that at its core is as a result of Mal and I's efforts way back in the day that, you

01:01:14.180 know, led us to this moment. Um, that's a pretty cool and motivating experience. So, um, I, I also

01:01:20.960 know this, and I've listened to a lot of podcasts about founders that sold, um, most of them,

01:01:26.480 while of course it produces incredible financial liquidity for them and it can change their life

01:01:31.360 forever, um, on the financial front, a lot of them have identity crisis is the one that's done.

01:01:36.620 Um, because for so many of them, part of your identity is wrapped up into this business. And

01:01:41.560 all of a sudden you get a big deposit that hits your bank account and you got a company that says,

01:01:45.480 thanks, but we don't need you anymore and go to good things. They wake up the next day. And after

01:01:51.000 that euphoria is gone, they're like, all right, what the heck do I do now? Um, and, and I, I'm not

01:01:55.840 naive to not like, I know that would happen with me and I would last 24 hours before I'm spinning up

01:02:00.460 the next business. I guarantee it. I'd probably have a legal pad out the next morning, drinking a

01:02:03.980 cup of coffee saying, all right, what's the next angle here? I know it for a fact. So I've accepted

01:02:08.460 the fact that I'm always going to be a bit of a maniac. Um, and I will always be pursuing something,

01:02:13.700 you know, I'm not going to retire at 40 and be like, all right, I'm going to go surf the rest of

01:02:16.760 my life. Um, I, there's just no way I don't know balance. Um, and, uh, but so that, because of that,

01:02:23.460 I would like to still have born primitive around for a very long time. Um, cause I also think it

01:02:28.340 would be very cool. And this is a long shot to start bringing my daughter into the business when

01:02:33.560 she's a teenager to start teaching her about business and fashion and product design and have

01:02:38.720 her sit on calls while I'm talking to some lawyer that's trying to sue us. And so she sees how I deal

01:02:43.320 with people and when to, when to be assertive and to not let people push you around and when to be

01:02:47.480 empathetic and all these things that just by her watching when she's 14 could be really cool.

01:02:52.740 And then before I know it, she gets out of college and she's, you know, you know, an entry level

01:02:56.560 position earning her, her, you know, um, her earning her keep here. That would be a lot of fun for me to

01:03:03.560 experience as a father. Um, so that's a long way down the road, but I do think about that occasionally.

01:03:07.880 Yeah. I mean, that's really cool. I think about that with my own kids and I don't know if they'll

01:03:12.820 take this business on or follow my footsteps, um, whether they do or not is fine. They can choose

01:03:19.280 their path, but I'd be lying if I, if I didn't say that, uh, I would be nice if one of them decided

01:03:26.480 they wanted to take up the mantle for sure. That would be pretty cool. Wouldn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

01:03:32.180 That's, that's cool. You know, I actually just invested in a company that, uh, the, uh, the two

01:03:37.420 owners, the founders of the business, uh, got, got bought out in a way that was less than favorable.

01:03:43.500 And they sat on some ideas for, I think three or four years because they had a non-compete

01:03:48.860 and that non-compete just expired and they're ready to get back in the game. I'm like, I'm going to

01:03:54.620 invest in you, not, not the company, but I'm going to, you've already done it once. You're a little bit

01:04:00.460 agitated and you're hungry. So I think I'll invest in you at this point. And I'm very,

01:04:06.820 very excited to see what they do. I think that lines up with what you're saying.

01:04:10.240 I like that bet. Cause I think the, the, the, the position they're in, if they're,

01:04:14.600 if, if they've been, if they've been, if they've been held back from starting because of the,

01:04:19.100 you know, the non-compete, um, and they got maybe, uh, done dirty a little bit on the last

01:04:23.920 transaction. I think you're making a good bet because, um, that seems like a recipe for success.

01:04:28.780 Yeah. Yeah. Well, brother, this has been a great conversation. I think we might need to have around

01:04:34.680 too. Cause I got a lot of other things that I plan on talking with you about, but I'm actually just

01:04:38.760 taking a little bit of my own notes for my, my own personal reference. I hope, I hope other people

01:04:43.900 got value from this conversation. Uh, I'm excited to see what you guys are doing. I saw, I think I saw

01:04:49.740 an ad the other day on Facebook for some shoes that you guys are putting out. It's the Gadsden flag,

01:04:55.040 uh, shoes. And, uh, it's funny when you see just the criticism that comes with all of this stuff.

01:05:02.920 I've been in the game long enough where I just think it's funny at this point and I'll get offended

01:05:06.460 by stuff. I think it's just funny. Uh, but you guys are doing some cool stuff, man. And I'm very

01:05:11.300 excited to be able to support you guys and learn more about what you're doing and, uh, get to know

01:05:15.840 you a little bit, tell the guys where to connect, where to learn more about what you're doing. And then

01:05:19.320 obviously what I'd like to do is next year plan ahead a little bit better on my part to get you

01:05:25.400 involved prior to, and in coordination with a veterans day. Cause I think we can do some things

01:05:31.720 with our community as well to serve you guys. Love that, man. Yeah. So we're at born primitive.com.

01:05:36.720 Um, and then social media at born primitive I'm at bear Hanlon, but my Instagram is not that cool.

01:05:41.740 Um, but, uh, yeah, you can find all of our stuff there. We have fitness, athleisure, flannels,

01:05:48.180 jeans, tactical hunting and outdoor footwear. I mean, pretty much anything for anybody is there.

01:05:54.500 Um, and I think you said, you know, when this airs, it'll actually be our last day of our black

01:05:58.680 Friday, cyber Monday sale. It's going to end Tuesday at midnight. So if you're in the market,

01:06:02.300 today's the last day, get in, get in and get after it. Um, but we'll have some holiday deals in

01:06:06.700 December too. Um, and, uh, and yes, we do plan on doing the veterans day thing next year. Uh,

01:06:13.460 it will be medical bills again. Um, and I, I can kind of tease this. It looks like we're going to

01:06:18.860 try to join forces with black rifle and this is unofficial. Um, but I'm going to go meet those

01:06:24.160 guys. You know, Evan and I had, I was on Evan's podcast, um, you know, during veterans day. And

01:06:29.760 after the call, I'd kind of said, Hey man, it'd be great to get you guys a part of this. This is a

01:06:33.500 pretty damn impactful thing. And like you guys with your reach, we could do even more together.

01:06:39.240 Um, and, uh, and, and, and I'm, I'm trying to get the UFC involved as well. Now that's a long

01:06:45.540 shot. Um, I have a call with them tomorrow actually, because I, I, I, I know that the DNA and the

01:06:51.020 mentality of that organization, I think it aligns perfectly. They always do a big fight veterans day

01:06:55.120 weekend, usually at MSG. Um, how cool would it be to have them a part of this and the three of us

01:07:00.740 combined, I want to get to 50 million. Um, so that's, that's the, I'm calling my shot now.

01:07:06.840 That's me being again, dumb enough to not know any better, um, and to think big. And if it doesn't

01:07:11.640 scare you, it's probably not big enough. So, um, you know, plenty of more, um, of that on the horizon

01:07:16.980 for us. And we want to make sure it's not just about apparel. Um, we're proud of our country.

01:07:21.360 We're proud of what it stands for. We're proud of the flag. We're always going to be unapologetic

01:07:25.260 in our approach of that. Um, fortunately it seems society is correcting a bit to that mindset,

01:07:30.080 but for a while there, it seemed like we were alone and unafraid, man. Um, we weren't getting

01:07:34.920 a whole lot of support, uh, you know, in corporate America with, you know, me with, I got the

01:07:39.660 constitution on my arm and a skeleton, George Washington and an American flag right behind

01:07:43.460 me. Like that was not mainstream. Right. Um, but that's who we were and we're, Hey, we're going to

01:07:47.860 be true to who we are. Um, this is in our DNA, you know, we're, uh, you know, half of our employees

01:07:52.620 are veterans and former first responders and spouses of those individuals. So this is not

01:07:57.600 a punchline for us. This is who we are and it's authentic. Um, and I'm, I'm happy to see

01:08:02.580 society coming around to it a little bit and correcting to what I deemed some complete insanity

01:08:07.700 that I was witnessing over the last few years. Um, and, uh, I think, you know, I'm, I'm happy

01:08:13.020 to say we were on the front end of that. We didn't, we held the line on who we were, um, even

01:08:17.720 at a time when it was very uncomfortable to do so, uh, in, in kind of the corporate brand

01:08:22.140 world. Yeah. Well, you guys are doing it. Evan is a great person over at black rifle,

01:08:28.260 uh, mutual friends with him. Also Sean Ryan doing incredible things as well. I mutual friends

01:08:33.860 there. Um, I think there's a lot that we can be able to help each other with this and more

01:08:37.620 importantly, help veterans. That's, that's the goal, right? These guys and gals have given

01:08:41.840 so much back to this country. Um, I think we can sacrifice and give a little bit back to

01:08:46.320 them. So we'll sync everything up there. I appreciate you, man. Looking forward to getting

01:08:50.420 know you a little bit better and, uh, guys support born primitive support bear. You're

01:08:55.060 going, you're going to do good things, but you're also going to get a little benefit in the meantime

01:08:57.980 as well. So, uh, check these guys out there. Thank you very much, man. Absolutely. Thanks

01:09:01.980 for having me, man. Men bear handling. I hope you enjoyed that one bear and I have been trying

01:09:07.540 to make this happen. As I said, in the podcast and the conversation, um, I've used their products

01:09:12.080 for a very long time. So to be able to make this connection and have this connection and,

01:09:16.240 and, and talk about the things that bear and I did, I think there's more in the cards.

01:09:20.760 You know, when you talk with somebody and you think this is not the last time we're going

01:09:23.700 to talk. I felt that way with bear and, uh, we'll have not only around two, but we're going

01:09:28.460 to do some big things to help them in their mission to support veterans come 2025. In the

01:09:35.420 meantime, I would highly encourage you to support their movement, their business called born

01:09:39.760 primitive. And then also check out bear handling on Instagram, tag bear tag myself, let people

01:09:45.940 know what you're listening to this again, as I said earlier is a grassroots movement to

01:09:50.860 reclaim and restore masculinity. I cannot see it being any other way. We might pour some

01:09:55.940 fuel on the fire with some marketing dollars, but at the end of the day, what really matters

01:10:00.000 is the text that you send to your brother or your dad about what you listened to the snippet

01:10:04.460 that you shared on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter. And however you can get the word out.

01:10:09.060 I don't care if it's smoke signal, Instagram, uh, Morris code, sign language, another foreign

01:10:17.200 language outside of, of English, whatever it needs to be. Let's grow this thing. Let's help

01:10:23.100 each other. Let's serve each other. Let's reclaim what it means to be a man. And that, uh, is

01:10:29.100 your marching orders. I will do my part over here. And if you have suggestions and ideas,

01:10:33.920 please let me know. And if you have a way to contribute, please do so. All right, guys,

01:10:38.380 connect with bear, connect with myself, connect with Montana knife company, connect with born

01:10:42.320 primitive. And, uh, until tomorrow for, uh, ask me anything, go out there, take action

01:10:48.340 and become the man you are meant to be.

01:10:55.140 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your

01:10:59.420 life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

01:11:08.380 Thank you.

01:11:09.440 Thank you.

Order of Man - December 03, 2024

BEAR HANDLON ｜ Too Dumb to Fail？

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