Order of Man - Becoming a Warrior Poet

00:00:00.000 It seems to me that a lot of men have a hard time striking the balance between

00:00:03.640 warrior and philosopher. For a long time, I was under the impression that men are either one

00:00:09.060 or the other, the strong, rugged archetype, or the smart intellectual archetype. My guest today,

00:00:16.320 John Lovell, founder of warrior poet society makes the case for why and how we as men can be both.

00:00:21.800 This has been a conversation a long time in the works. And John has been requested by you guys

00:00:26.600 countless times. We discuss what it means to be strong and smart, how to apply philosophy

00:00:32.340 practically in our day-to-day lives, a basic introduction to firearms for everyday carry,

00:00:37.740 and ultimately what it means and how to become a warrior poet.

00:00:41.920 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart

00:00:46.640 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time you are not

00:00:52.500 easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are.

00:00:59.680 This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:01:04.440 you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler,

00:01:09.460 and I am the host and the founder of this podcast and the movement that is Order of Man. I want to

00:01:14.520 welcome you to the podcast regardless of how long you've been here. As I said, I think last week,

00:01:19.380 I told you that the month of January was our highest downloaded month ever for the podcast,

00:01:25.740 and February is shaping up to actually beat that as well. So I want to thank you. I also want to

00:01:31.480 suggest that we need to keep the momentum rolling as more and more men are finding out what this

00:01:36.860 mission is all about, that of reclaiming and restoring masculinity. So before I get into anything

00:01:42.240 else, I need to ask you a very, very quick favor. Guys, if you would, please just leave a rating and

00:01:47.080 review. That's it. That's all you need to do. Leave a rating and review wherever you listen to the

00:01:51.700 podcast that goes such a long way in promoting the visibility and getting the message out and

00:01:57.320 spreading the word. And ultimately us again, reclaiming and restoring masculinity in this

00:02:02.540 society that seems to be increasingly dismissive of it. Now I realize it's probably the vocal minority,

00:02:08.040 but if we don't speak out and we don't share what we know about what it means to be a man,

00:02:12.320 that vocal minority will become a vocal majority. So we need to combat that. That's what this mission

00:02:18.620 is all about. And I appreciate you sharing guys. Let me just introduce you really quickly before we

00:02:23.680 get into the conversation today. Uh, my friends and show sponsors origin. These guys are my neighbors.

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00:03:14.740 main.com origin, main.com and use the code order or D E R at checkout for a discount.

00:03:22.180 All right, guys, let me introduce you to John. A lot of you guys know who this guy is. Uh, he's somebody

00:03:26.820 that you have requested. I don't know how many times. And fortunately I had the opportunity to sit down

00:03:31.460 with him at shot show in Las Vegas a couple of weeks ago. Uh, this conversation was bound to happen,

00:03:36.200 bound to happen as, uh, his organization warrior poet society is so closely related to what we're

00:03:42.040 doing here. Uh, with the order of man, John is a special operations war veteran. Uh, he served

00:03:47.680 multiple combat tours to Iraq, to Afghanistan. And then the, the dichotomy here is he's also served

00:03:53.160 as a Christian missionary to central America. And this is a Testament to, uh, the duality, I guess

00:03:58.780 you'd say of, of his warrior poet philosophy. And then on top of all that, John teaches tactical pistol,

00:04:04.040 rifle, uh, and small unit tactics and many other classes around the U S. Uh, we had a lot of fun

00:04:11.440 during this conversation and I can't imagine it will be too long before, uh, we do it again.

00:04:16.520 Enjoy guys. John, what's up brother? Yo, homie. Glad to be a glad to be here with you. Yeah. I'm glad

00:04:22.580 we finally linked up. I know it's been a couple of months probably or so or longer. I followed you

00:04:27.380 for a long time. I think I was following you longer than you were following me. Yeah. I mean,

00:04:30.840 that makes sense, right? Like, don't be a jerk, man. Come on. You're supposed to feel bad. I was

00:04:34.880 trying to shame you. I'm sorry. Instead of feeling guilty, you just owned it. Like I get, I, I got

00:04:40.260 over feeling, uh, feeling bad and all that and playing that game a long time ago, man. Well,

00:04:45.480 it was devastating to my game here to shame you. I, uh, whatever. I thought it was the other way

00:04:50.900 around. Cause I reached out to you and I'm like, man, this guy's not going to have any idea who I am.

00:04:54.420 He's not going to want to do anything together, but, uh, here we are. Nonetheless,

00:04:57.080 no, I, I kept hearing about what you were doing though. I had, I have, I think there's a lot of

00:05:01.320 people who follow what we're doing with order of man who also are following you as well. So

00:05:06.100 overlap is perfect. We need a whole bunch of people doing what we're doing. It's shocking that nobody

00:05:12.420 seems to be really doing what we're doing with our ethos. Yes. And I feel like we're, we're this

00:05:18.620 doing very, very similar messages under different kind of banners and names, but it's essentially the

00:05:25.760 I think I got more guns than you. You do. You have significantly more, although I'm not willing

00:05:30.080 to disclose how many I have, I'd still bet that you have more than I do. Well, tragically. And

00:05:35.240 guys, some of you will, this will resonate with you. I lost almost all of them in a tragic boating

00:05:40.780 accident. So pray for me. Uh, but, uh, you know, Hey, that that's good. Hey, we'll just say they're

00:05:47.740 lost and that's it. End of story. We won't dive into that any deeper than that. So big brother,

00:05:52.200 if you're looking for them, they're somewhere at the bottom of a lake for sure. That's right.

00:05:57.320 It's funny. Cause every once in a while I have guys on Facebook like, Hey, you know, what do you

00:06:01.700 carry? What's your EDC? What's this? I'm like, don't worry about it. I'm not going to, if you want

00:06:06.360 to know, you can let, let's meet in person. We'll talk about that, but I'm not going to share

00:06:09.460 anything. Hey, I'm ready to defend my own. You need no more information. That's right. How much of

00:06:16.740 that stuff do you disclose? I disclose it. I mean, it's your job too. Yeah. I disclose it. Cause

00:06:21.060 I want people. Yeah. Us specifically, we're trying to make more responsible gun owners,

00:06:27.180 uh, carriers, make the world safer. Gear can be helpful getting the right gun set up holster

00:06:34.820 and all that stuff. It's not what we major on. It is the Indian and not the arrow. So to speak

00:06:40.080 it's training is outrageously more important than what model gun you get is training and knowing

00:06:46.620 what you're doing. Uh, but gear and getting the right stuff really can help. So we weigh

00:06:52.020 in. Uh, so people want pro, you know, professional kind of advice. I feel like a tool calling myself

00:06:57.560 professional, but you are a professional there. I said it. Well, thank you. Anyway, so we don't

00:07:02.700 want people to waste money on crap. Right. Uh, right. So, well, it's hard too, because I'm

00:07:07.460 not in the industry. So I, I frankly, I wouldn't know other than like what I have, but like,

00:07:12.540 how do you, how do you start to like decipher, you know, what is, what is good as far as equipment

00:07:17.320 and advice? Like what is good, what is valuable, what is accurate and what is trash without context?

00:07:22.100 I have nothing to tell you. What are you trying to accomplish is absolutely the most important

00:07:27.080 thing. Well, and I bet actually, now that you say that, that's probably if they aren't asking

00:07:31.460 that question or bringing that up, then that's probably not qualified advice. Yeah. Right. Because

00:07:38.200 so my background is financial planning. So, so I have people will say things like, Oh, well,

00:07:42.440 what's the best investment? And I say the same thing. I don't know. What is it you're trying to

00:07:46.460 do? Yeah. And if they're not asking that question, an advisor's not asking that question, right. Then

00:07:52.540 he probably is not going to lead you in the best path because he has no idea of whether or not he's

00:07:56.340 going to lead you into the right thing. Yeah. And I can't, I can't answer the question until you give

00:07:59.780 me a little bit more data to go off of. So if you want to, if we want to go toward kind of some of

00:08:05.860 those sure unique ones, we will, we will, there we go. We'll get into it. We will. We'll get into

00:08:10.960 it. Yes. Where does, so obviously we've got firearms, but where does the ethos that you talk

00:08:16.120 about fall in line? Cause a lot of the times, if it's firearms, we're just talking about firearms,

00:08:19.800 talking about training and all of that. But very rarely do I see if ever the ethos that you bring

00:08:25.580 that supports what it is you're doing from a firearms and protection perspective. Sure. So I'm a combat

00:08:32.100 veteran, special ops, all that jazz. Uh, and you know, as such, I'm talking a lot about how to win

00:08:38.720 fights, how to make the world a safer place. But I think the fallacy that people get roped into kind

00:08:44.760 of tunnel vision, this is both people who are outside of the gun community and then people

00:08:48.480 fall in, in kind of a, a, a shallow rut as well, thinking that we have some deep love for violence.

00:08:56.440 And that's not really what's happening here. The real idea is we love people, our families,

00:09:03.100 our communities. We don't want to see dead kids in schools or churches shot up. And so to quote the

00:09:10.340 great, uh, philosopher and writer, journalist, 20th century GK Chesterton, the soldier fights not

00:09:17.020 because he hates what's in front of him, though he may, but because he loves what's behind him. And

00:09:22.680 that's more of the ethos of no, no, no. I just want to protect people. Right. And that's what

00:09:27.360 drives us. And so it's a little bit more grassroots. It's not all multi-cam stalking with night vision

00:09:34.060 in the darkness that we're doing. I'm after the common man working a nine to five and would like

00:09:40.280 to make some gradual, realistic steps to keep himself, his family, and make the world a little

00:09:48.920 safer. That's it. Why do you think there's such a, uh, misconception generally, I think,

00:09:53.700 uh, of what it is that you're doing? You know, I think there is a lot of thought that this is just a,

00:09:59.020 a, a group of, you know, violence loving people when in all reality, it isn't that we just use that

00:10:04.380 as means to protect the people we care about. I don't know, but I've noticed it's just kind of

00:10:10.020 the way of the world that everything pendulum swings from one extreme to the other. Sure.

00:10:15.920 You know, it's kind of like if people want me to be all poet and just do theology or philosophy stuff

00:10:22.520 and other people want me to be all warrior and be like, Hey, shut up. Just talk about guns. You're

00:10:26.960 good at guns. Do, do the guns thing. I'm like, Hey bro, I'm more than guns, man. I'm interested

00:10:32.100 in a lot more than guns. I'm really interested in family and faith and freedom and, uh, that,

00:10:40.260 that kind of stuff. So I, I don't six, succeed in war just to fail in life. Right. You know,

00:10:46.560 that, that's a, not a successful person to me. So I don't know why, uh, why folks pendulum from

00:10:53.940 one extreme to the other, but the real balance that we're after. And I think you're after too,

00:10:59.660 you're, you're after strong masculinity. Sure. Uh, but also a vulnerability. You should be

00:11:07.720 chasing your wife around the kitchen, trying to make out, even though you've been married 20 years

00:11:13.180 tickle fights with the kids, Legos and Nerf wars. I mean, you're vulnerable of my children should not

00:11:22.360 fear me, but ISIS should, you know? Well, I think that's a great way to say it because I,

00:11:28.360 there are a lot of guys out there who are so one dimensional and, and, and all they can do is be

00:11:34.040 good at the one thing, right? They're good at providing, for example, or that's, that's mostly

00:11:39.100 what it is. You know, if they're good at something, most men seem to be good at going out into the

00:11:43.400 workforce, providing for their family. But what's fascinating is that's what they say they're doing,

00:11:47.960 but it comes at the expense of the relationships with their family and they aren't multifaceted.

00:11:53.100 They're so one dimensional and they can't seem to translate their incredible skill in the

00:11:59.040 workforce over to family life and volunteer service and every other thing that they say

00:12:04.080 they have aspirations to do. I think it's a failure of a man. Not being able to branch out,

00:12:10.160 to be good at everything. To be able to balance. I think a man, and really you could say just a human

00:12:16.720 in general. Sure. A man's success is predicated on what are the priorities that they set? What

00:12:22.480 priorities do you have? And how well do you balance between them? So you, great, you became a captain

00:12:29.100 of industry and you got all the stuff, but your family hates you. Your soul is black as night.

00:12:35.300 Everyone hates you. No one's going to your funeral. Just kind of like, that was a pretty bleak picture.

00:12:41.100 Sorry there, but that's brutal. Even my metaphor is swung over to the radical extreme. So now I'm a,

00:12:46.180 well, people relate with the extremes, although the answer usually lies somewhere in the middle.

00:12:50.880 So hyperbole is fun though. It is. Well, it's fun. And also it's easy.

00:12:55.080 It is. It is. I actually fall into that trap quite a bit. You know, I speak in black and I'm a black

00:12:59.400 and white kind of guy. So I speak in black and whites and I speak in absolutes and Instagram and

00:13:04.020 social media is never at a failure for telling me all the things I'm doing wrong. But that's one of the

00:13:07.600 things that get right is that, uh, I, I fail to explain the nuances of, of life, uh, because I am so

00:13:15.360 black and white. It's amazing. It just, no matter what I put out, I was just talking with some people

00:13:21.420 here at the shot show floor. Uh, I did a collab with a few other fighters and one's like a world

00:13:28.800 knife expert. The other is a UFC professional fighter. And I've got an ops background and I've

00:13:35.440 been fighting for a very long time. And the three of us were doing a collab. And when you went in the

00:13:39.200 comments, we were getting so much advice. And so it's just like amazing of like there,

00:13:45.440 we all have something to learn. We're all on a journey for sure. But, but I don't think all

00:13:51.880 the expert advice is going to be in the comments in that instance of like, man, I found the top

00:13:57.200 collab people I could, but in the comments, you idiot. Oh, if in a real fight, I would do such and

00:14:02.720 such. And I'm like, maybe, maybe, maybe not. Like it is funny because, and you have to be careful

00:14:08.300 because it's easy to start believing what people are saying. And there's certain things

00:14:13.680 that you should believe because it comes from a credible and reputable source. Yeah. And

00:14:17.760 there's other things where you just have to be good at dismissing it. And those are the

00:14:22.500 questions I ask. Two questions when I'm evaluating feedback. Is it qualified? Yeah. And is it right?

00:14:30.580 Yeah. Because that's not always the case. They don't always meet, right? Do you ever read

00:14:35.000 in the comments and you just feel like this, this person has a really good point? I missed the ball

00:14:39.600 or you got it? Yeah. Usually what I do is I put my foot in my mouth first and say something stupid

00:14:45.440 and then go back half an hour later and say, Oh, that probably wasn't the best way to handle that.

00:14:50.380 And then try to correct it after. Got it. I wish I could just do it initially and I can,

00:14:54.340 I just don't. So, you know, I learned from the comments sometimes and some stuff I just completely

00:14:59.900 miss. And so you find gold in the comments, but for every one nugget of gold,

00:15:04.240 I'll find a hundred pieces of like, this person just despises my soul.

00:15:09.200 Why do you, why do you think that is? There's so many miserable people, it seems like, and I don't

00:15:12.620 know if they're miserable or no, they're miserable. Like that's it. They're miserable people. And I

00:15:17.560 think they just, I don't know. It just seems like they want to just like rub that off on other people

00:15:21.620 because you're trying to do good. I think objectively I'm trying to do good. Objectively,

00:15:26.440 I don't think there's very many people who would argue that we're trying to do good.

00:15:30.940 You know, the way we do it may be off at times or not resonate with everybody, but ultimately I

00:15:35.620 think we're trying to do good. Yeah, for sure. And I'm just falling short all the time. I'm

00:15:39.540 missing the mark. I'm a dude on a journey. I haven't got it all figured out. I've gotten some stuff

00:15:44.200 figured out. Sure. But it got just a ton. And so I'm two steps forward, one step back. And so

00:15:49.280 anyway, sometimes they've got a point. A lot of times, I don't know, sometimes it just gets to me

00:15:55.520 when it's just, usually I just shake it off. You have some terrible trollery, just something

00:16:00.600 epically over the top. And it's hilarious. I love it. I love the horrid trollery. You have to. You

00:16:07.920 have to appreciate it. So comical, but they're always so sure. And you know, as a man, I want to

00:16:13.420 be fairly introspective. So if you say something and it is qualified, like you said, that that's

00:16:19.180 important. I need to weigh that. Otherwise I get caught in my little echo chamber and I never

00:16:23.980 progress as a human. Right. And that sucks. I need bad feedback that's credible. Right.

00:16:30.920 Right. You have to have that. It's critical that you have that. You know, if there's one

00:16:34.860 thing I can appreciate about trolls is they are masterful at finding out your buttons and

00:16:40.900 being able to push those buttons. I'm like, that's a translatable skill to something that

00:16:44.400 would actually be valuable in life instead of just beating people up. But they are good at

00:16:49.720 it. Socially, they just understand, oh, this guy's driven by this. I'll say this. And then

00:16:53.460 they'll respond. And they are so masterful at that. I'm like, why don't you apply that

00:16:58.100 in a positive perspective and, you know, go get a job or a promotion or sell something

00:17:03.820 or win over a woman or connect with your kids using the social intelligence that you obviously

00:17:12.380 have. Yeah.

00:17:13.160 Like they can see it, but they just don't use it correctly. It's a travesty.

00:17:17.480 It really is. And, you know, like right now I'm thinking of if we were just purely logical

00:17:23.360 creatures that could do the thing we knew we should do, nobody would be overweight or out

00:17:29.560 of shape.

00:17:30.220 True. We'd all be rich and, yeah, right.

00:17:31.720 And our families would be completely happy. Our problem isn't that we don't know what to

00:17:36.520 do. Our problem is, is that we're weak and we want the cookie and I want the upgraded

00:17:44.300 car and I want to feel important and I'm jealous of so-and-so. And so we sabotage what we know

00:17:50.480 by our appetites. And it's not them, it's me too.

00:17:55.420 It's all of us, right.

00:17:56.440 Yeah. And so I feel that pressure, the pang of jealousy or insecurity. And so the trolls know it.

00:18:03.420 They do know it.

00:18:04.160 They smell it in the water.

00:18:05.560 They do. It's like sharks to blood, for sure.

00:18:08.320 He's up, bro. We're doing the best we can, homie.

00:18:10.700 How do you put that in check for yourself? I mean, acknowledging it and recognizing that

00:18:16.940 it's there, I think, is the first step. But how do you then check it?

00:18:20.740 Great question. I've got people, long, deep relationships around me that can speak in and

00:18:28.060 they'll say the harder thing. And that's part of it. Another thing is the introspection thing.

00:18:33.160 And another thing is I'm reading all the time. And then I'm also plugged into a family of faith.

00:18:37.980 So I have a pastor. And so, you know, all of that ends up being a support network where I'm not the

00:18:45.100 big authority. I'm under authority as well as in authority. And so I have people that can speak

00:18:54.240 into my life. Otherwise, pride just puts scales over your eyes. And what about you? That's a great

00:19:01.920 question. That's definitely one way that I do it is having the right people around who I have given

00:19:07.340 permission, not only verbally, but through my actions and responses when they do share negative

00:19:12.320 feedback with me or constructive criticism. Sure. Because sometimes what we'll do is we'll say,

00:19:17.340 yeah, you can share stuff with me, even the things I don't want to hear, but I need to hear. And then

00:19:21.560 when they share that stuff with you, you blow up at them. Yeah. So you may have given them verbal

00:19:25.100 permission, but your actions are in direct conflict with what you just said. And then they'll never give

00:19:30.020 you any feedback again. That's good. Right. So, so having that has been valuable. And then, you know,

00:19:34.660 indirect mentorship, you know, whether it's connecting with guys like yourself and other

00:19:39.100 people that I've met through the podcast, reading books, putting myself in front of good information,

00:19:42.640 where it expands my thought process and the way that I look at life, the way I look at my performance.

00:19:50.460 That's another one is I think about what other people are doing and what they're capable of. I think

00:19:54.820 there's this, there's this theme in society that says, don't compare yourself to other people.

00:19:58.380 And that can certainly be put in a negative light. But I also think there's times where you

00:20:02.780 probably should not, not from a perspective of worth, like, Oh, this person is doing better than

00:20:07.660 me. So he's worth more than me. That's not what I'm saying. But when you look at other people that

00:20:12.200 inspire, motivate you to do better things and you compare their performance to yours, it shows you

00:20:17.180 what's possible for sure. And that's very, very powerful. Yep. Agreed. So one of the things you said is

00:20:24.020 you said, I believe you said either in or under authority is what you had said. How do you reconcile

00:20:31.060 that with being in control of your own life and determining your own destiny and the things that

00:20:37.620 you want to create? Because I assume that you feel like you're a, you're an independent man capable of

00:20:42.100 making those decisions. And yet you say you're under authority. I assume you were talking about God,

00:20:45.860 right? Yeah. And also, I mean, church is as well. That's another thing. And also you have just

00:20:52.980 different spheres of kind of like, uh, for instance, warrior poet society, the buck stops with me.

00:20:58.420 I'm kind of the boss, but a lot of days, many days I've, you know, like I've got a staff member

00:21:06.440 that is over an area of warrior poet society and they're kind of the King. They direct me around and

00:21:11.900 tell me what, here we have, uh, Brendan and Preston and they're, they're my camera guys working here

00:21:17.780 and producers and directors. And they tell me what to do and where to stand. And, you know,

00:21:22.680 it's kind of like when we're doing video stuff of I'm not in charge anymore, right? You know,

00:21:26.820 the overall concept or the idea of like, but no. So even little things like that, where I'm in

00:21:34.320 authority, but I know how to be under authority as well. If, if you're always in charge, you're never

00:21:39.940 going to really, nobody's should always be in charge. Well, there's other people that

00:21:47.020 are not going to go very far. You're not going to go very far in life with that. And your weaknesses

00:21:51.300 will never, uh, uh, turn into strengths. Yeah. Sure. How did you get, well, I was going to say,

00:21:58.220 how'd you get into firearms? But I imagine your time in the military service, uh, was it even before

00:22:03.280 that? Did you grow up around firearms? No, not right. I mean, guns were around, but I wasn't really

00:22:07.440 into them. I got into them. Yeah. So I'm, I don't really just love firearms. Some people love their

00:22:12.740 guns and they collect them and they name, I do name some of mine. Um, but, uh, do you really?

00:22:18.200 Yeah. But it's just to be hilarious. I was going to say, is that like a superstition thing? Like I

00:22:22.420 have a friend who he's all about baseball and he like, he has a name for his glove or whatever,

00:22:27.880 a name for specific bats that he uses. And he's not being funny. Like it's legitimate. And if you don't

00:22:32.780 have a name for it, that's bad luck. Like you don't not have a name for your bat or your glove

00:22:38.440 or whatever. No, I'm just being funny. Okay. So my AR-15, like my, my original OG, uh, AR-15,

00:22:45.000 she's been Sharon Jean for ages. Her name's Sharon Jean. That's her name. Right. But no,

00:22:49.580 I just do it. I don't love guns. Guns are cool there, but they're, they're really tools for me.

00:22:55.540 Sure. They're tools. It's, it's right. You're the weapon and that's just a tool. And so, uh,

00:23:01.340 that's explain the difference. Yeah. So sure. Well, guns don't kill people. People kill people,

00:23:07.740 you know, like if, if violence, it comes from somebody pulling a trigger or pushing a button.

00:23:13.500 That just happens to be the tool you're using. That's right. We are the most dangerous predator

00:23:19.940 the world has ever seen. We are the top of the food chain. We are the apex predators.

00:23:25.120 But when you think of it, it's not because we have sharper teeth or claws or run faster or stronger.

00:23:30.660 Uh, it's because we're smarter. And so our mind, you know, that we are the weapon.

00:23:37.300 People, people frown upon that. It's interesting though. You know, you think about that we are the

00:23:41.440 predator, but the other thing is that we also are the only animal out there that is humane.

00:23:49.140 Right. And that considers their praise feelings and the way they die and these other things in the

00:23:55.380 predator world. Yeah. Right. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. It's funny. Yeah. You know,

00:23:58.420 so people, people beat that up like, Oh, we're evil. Oh, we're the worst thing that's ever happened.

00:24:02.140 No, actually we're, we're pretty, we're pretty, uh, gracious that way. I would say, I mean, we can

00:24:07.620 be, we can be evil, but I think we've worked a lot of that out. Some of it. So my mind immediately

00:24:13.620 wandered as I went to a theology is, is man good? Yeah. Are we evil? Or, uh, what are your thoughts?

00:24:20.380 Uh, I think, uh, that's a slippery slope because it's all a comparison contest of kind of like,

00:24:27.520 you may be a better man than me, but if we're talking, if there is such a thing as God, well,

00:24:33.160 now we have a huge problem because when I compare myself to a God, if, if God is God, then God is

00:24:38.920 an infinite without beginning or end. And if God has any attribute, but logically it follows that

00:24:45.620 that attribute must also be infinite. So if God is good and infinite, God must be infinitely good,

00:24:51.780 which means if I am even just a little bad in the eyes of an infinitely good God, I look

00:24:56.460 infinitely evil. And so now I've got a huge problem. And when we talk about our inherent goodness,

00:25:02.740 we're ants arguing who's taller. And it's a ridiculous concept of then now, when we look

00:25:08.880 through the pages of history, everyone is evil wearing black caps, except one dude named Jesus.

00:25:15.620 Right. That's it. And so that's in the Bible echoes that language of all fallen short of the glory of

00:25:21.300 God, all of our righteousness, like filthy rags, uh, the heart is desperately even. And so that's

00:25:26.180 kind of the idea and where it is true. We can have moments, uh, or we can have great moments of charity,

00:25:33.520 compassion, love, even if you're not a Christian or you don't believe in God, that's true. We can do

00:25:38.740 that. And so I'm not saying man is always evil all the time. I'm not really saying that. I'm just

00:25:44.200 saying if we're playing a comparison game, who are we comparing ourselves to? Because compared to

00:25:49.260 Jeffrey Dahmer, I'm kind of a saint compared to Jesus, I am utterly a devil. And so that's what

00:25:56.920 I'm saying. It's what is your comparison? Because if we're talking about evil and Jesus is the standard,

00:26:03.760 I'm in a lot of trouble and I hope he's nice and forgiving. Uh, if we're talking about just me and

00:26:09.360 you, then you may be better. I was going to say, where do you fall on that? No, you know,

00:26:14.380 the more I try to be like Jesus, the more I realize I'm nothing like him. Try, try. But it's

00:26:19.440 still a, uh, you would say it's still a valuable pursuit though, right? Of course. Yeah, absolutely.

00:26:24.720 Be perfect as I am perfect. And he says, I'm kind of like, all right, well, that's, well, that sucks.

00:26:30.420 I can't do that, but I'm going to try. Fantastic. Yeah. Here I go.

00:26:34.760 Well, like, I guess the question is only, only valuable in that you're doing something with the

00:26:39.880 answer, right? So if you're just asking the question for the sake of asking the question,

00:26:43.080 it's ridiculous. That, that's what I actually believe philosophy was like just people thinking

00:26:47.120 about things that has no bearing in the way they apply it. Well, I think that's sophistry and that

00:26:51.220 sucky philosophy. And that's what it is now. No doubt. No doubt. That's the postmodern answer. Whereas

00:26:56.220 before, you know, you think back to the great philosophers of the ancient world and you had guys like

00:27:01.120 Socrates who, uh, was after truly after truth. And even when they tried to shut him up, he's like,

00:27:07.820 no, no, truth, truth, truth. And they're like, Hey dude, you keep talking about that. We're going

00:27:12.200 to totally kill you. And he's like, truth, truth, truth. And then he drinks the hemlock and dies.

00:27:16.100 And I'm like, no, there's a guy who's really after truth and is so sure of that truth. He'll live by it

00:27:23.160 and he'll seal it with his blood. Uh, and I'm like, all right, that, that's real philosophy, which is just

00:27:29.480 trying to figure out how all the pieces fit and figuring out how to think hard about life and do

00:27:34.360 life well, pragmatically, uh, and more, you know, a priori. And so that, that's kind of the, the good

00:27:41.500 philosophy today. We've given up on truth. And so there's no truth except whatever you make.

00:27:47.220 Either no truth or my truth, which is, which is no truth. Exactly. It's the same thing. Yeah. It's the

00:27:52.700 exact same thing. It's completely circular self-defeating argument. Yes. If you're denying absolute truth,

00:27:58.920 you're denying the laws of logic and you can't deny the laws of logic without using law. It's a set,

00:28:06.860 you're sawing off the branch you're sitting on and all of it falls like a house of cards. It's

00:28:11.760 utterly idiotic. And people stumble into it, not because it makes coherent sense, but because it

00:28:16.640 felt really good to say everyone's right. Right. And we're all in a fluffy cloud of nebulous ambiguity.

00:28:22.720 And I'm like, no, it's, it's utter constipated thought. It's terrible. It's anti-philosophy.

00:28:29.440 It's postmodern deconstructionism. It'll be the death of all of us. So, um, not the sophistry

00:28:34.960 thing is let's just think about some stuff and have some cool, gnarly arguments, feel good about

00:28:39.940 it, smoke a doobie while trying to figure out how the world works. And then we'll go on and do

00:28:43.920 whatever we want. I'm like, that's not philosophy. That's not how this works. You know, to go back to

00:28:48.000 that question of, are we, are we good or are we evil? You know, inherently, whatever it may be

00:28:52.340 that I lean more towards, we, we are fallen. Right. So the reason that that thought is what

00:28:58.300 I've decided to adhere to and believe is that I know I have the capability and maybe even the

00:29:03.400 propensity to be evil, to, to shortcut, to be lazy, to look for immediate gratification, which means

00:29:10.360 that I need to set some systems up in my life to combat my natural tendency of being weak and

00:29:16.060 sympathetic. That's awesome. I can totally, I like everything you just said. There you go.

00:29:20.440 You should start a movement. I should. We'll have a podcast. We'll interview some great guys.

00:29:25.640 Fantastic. We'll, we'll have some events. Can I come? Absolutely. You're invited. You're invited.

00:29:30.500 I'm in. Home team. So, so dumb. Everyone's rolling their eyes right now. So sorry for that.

00:29:36.400 I think this was bound to happen though. Cause obviously we have a lot of correlating thoughts

00:29:39.880 and ideas. And like you said, the way we go about maybe talking about it or explain it might

00:29:43.920 be a little bit different, but I think they're, they're very much in alignment.

00:29:47.020 Yeah, I agree. Yeah. That's cool. How's, um, as far as, uh, you know, just society in general,

00:29:53.940 you know, you talk about the, the, the pendulum, right? Do you see the pendulum of masculinity,

00:29:59.380 uh, going, going more and more away from this idea of strong masculinity, like we were talking

00:30:05.140 about earlier, or do you feel like we're in a point where we're moving back towards the center and

00:30:10.000 maybe even swinging the other way? Where do you see that? Man, I want you to answer that. I will.

00:30:15.860 I want to hear your answer first, just so I can give myself some time. I think we are the greatest,

00:30:20.940 uh, bunch of sissies as men, the planet's ever seen. I think, I think we're more sissified than ever

00:30:28.980 before. Generally as, uh, as men. And I think just, we live in the bread. I live in the bread

00:30:35.680 basket of the world right now. And we haven't any way of like, we got first world problems.

00:30:42.120 Oh yeah. I've got no, right. Oh, this thing's not working. Yeah. It's about 3G. What the,

00:30:47.220 what am I supposed to do with 3G? I can't even stream whatever movie I want immediately with my

00:30:52.700 supercomputer. That's our first world problem. Definitely. You know, before for most of human

00:30:58.080 history, we have been eking behind, just trying not to die every day. And Timmy died of dysentery.

00:31:05.520 Today. And we had a 12 kids. So hopefully two would make it. And I lost all my teeth at 28 years

00:31:11.560 old. And just, it's been a brutal existence. You didn't have any penicillin because that didn't

00:31:16.240 exist. Right. You know, Elliot got eaten by a saber tooth. And nobody thinks anything of it. It's

00:31:24.360 like, it just happened. It's just been a brutal. And if you look at the rest of the world, even currently

00:31:28.640 people are fighting to survive. I mean, a third to half the planet doesn't have clean water. Right.

00:31:34.080 Kids are dying. It's a brutal thing. And out here we're just so outrageously rich. We live

00:31:40.580 like, I live far more comfortably than the greatest emperor of the middle ages. No doubt.

00:31:48.080 You know, of like, I have artificial environments that I can, you know, like, I don't feel like

00:31:53.400 68 degrees. I feel like 71. Right. And then I float through, you know, space in an airplane or car.

00:32:02.900 And I'm upset that everyone doesn't serve me. Like, yeah, I think we're a bunch of sissies.

00:32:07.680 Yeah. I mean, you think about even like, even food, right? You think about food. I'm a little hungry,

00:32:12.480 like a little growl in my stomach. So you walk over to the food court and you grab yourself a big burger

00:32:17.200 and fries and a Coke and whatever else you eat and stuff your face. So irritated. It's a two and a

00:32:22.220 half minute line. Yes. I have to wait. I have to wait 10 minutes for food. How am I going to feed

00:32:26.680 the gram? Which is actually part of the reason I got into, into hunting actually is because I wanted

00:32:34.040 to connect the dots between where our food comes from and it sitting on the dinner table ready for

00:32:40.780 us to eat. Yeah. You know, and it's, it's pretty enlightening when you get, do you hunt very much?

00:32:44.440 Sure. No, you don't. I'm planning on moving toward hunting. Are you? Yeah. All of my gun stuff has

00:32:49.520 specifically been, you know, more of the tactical type stuff. Right. It's just apex predator against

00:32:56.880 apex predator. Yeah. Man on man. Yeah. But I'm, I'm really interested in hunting. It's incredible.

00:33:02.140 Going down that route more. Yeah. What's, what's your draw? Uh, kind of the same of, I, I, I like the,

00:33:09.340 the chess of it all. I want the utility of man, you stock a freezer full of meat and my family can

00:33:17.140 now eat really healthy for a very long time. So the utility of extremely inexpensive way to feed my

00:33:24.740 family and be healthy without all the garbled junk that goes into poison our bodies through our food

00:33:31.640 sources. So, you know, that makes sense. And also it's just kind of a mental, uh, rest. It's a

00:33:37.460 recharge. If I don't think it's healthy for a man or a human to just stare at a screen all day,

00:33:44.680 every day inside. I think we need to get out there and be uncomfortable, be a little miserable,

00:33:51.780 hunt, make something happen and kind of tap into some calm, some peace, some nature. And I think that's,

00:34:00.440 that's healthy and we can, we, we've gotten away from it, man. Let me hit the pause button real

00:34:06.480 quick here on the conversation. Uh, I made a post on Twitter the other day stating that quote,

00:34:11.020 a woman can teach a boy how to be a good man, but not how to be good at being a man.

00:34:16.620 The distinction between morality and capability morality is alone is not enough. A man must be

00:34:22.740 capable. And that is the responsibility of the elder men guys. I believe so much in that statement

00:34:28.860 that we created an experience to help put it into practice. It's called the legacy experience.

00:34:33.880 And it's designed to help you as a father, usher your son into manhood by introducing him

00:34:39.020 to the frameworks that he'll need to thrive. Uh, this event will be held in June, June 11th through

00:34:45.180 the 14th, 2020 in Maine. And over the course of three and a half days, you and your son are going

00:34:49.860 to be competing with other men, uh, developing new skillsets and ultimately forging deeper bonds

00:34:55.100 together. So you can help him become a good man and a man who is good at being a man. Uh,

00:35:02.300 if you want to learn more and lock in one of the last five spots, that's all we have five spots left,

00:35:06.860 head to order of man.com slash legacy. Again, that's order of man.com slash legacy. The dates

00:35:13.540 are June 11th through the 14th, 2020. And it's for you and your son between the ages of eight to 15.

00:35:19.580 Again, order of man.com slash legacy, get signed up, do it quickly for now. We'll get back to my

00:35:25.100 conversation with John. I wholeheartedly agree. Every once in a while, man just needs to go howl at

00:35:31.180 the moon. You know, this is true. This is true. That's, that's definitely been true for me. Um,

00:35:37.020 as I've gone down this journey and you know, there's a lot of translatable skills as well.

00:35:40.780 For sure. You know, if you think about going out there and the patience it requires and the mental

00:35:44.260 strategy and chess game that you're playing. And then, you know, you appreciate your food a whole

00:35:49.420 lot more too. When you realize I got an experience just a couple of weeks ago where a deer and myself

00:35:54.900 were staring at each other at 19 yards for two minutes straight. And it's interesting when you

00:35:59.940 think I'm trying to kill this animal and as hard and as much as I want to kill this animal,

00:36:04.280 that animal wants to stay alive. Yeah. And in the battle right between that is actually really cool

00:36:09.720 to see an experience and be part of as well. And then it just connects you back to, to our humanity

00:36:13.840 and who we are. Yeah. You know, we like, we've got, what have we got? Like three cameras in front

00:36:18.340 of us right now. And you've got a camera here. We've got this electronics, we've got our headsets

00:36:21.180 on. And like, this isn't almost like not real. And, and most of the people that know you and I,

00:36:26.540 like they don't know us. Yeah. They don't know us. They see us on social media. Every once in a

00:36:32.100 while I meet somebody. And most often when I see somebody, they say, Oh, I recognized your beard,

00:36:35.940 you know, but they don't know us. It is. And there's no humanity in it. It is.

00:36:40.120 Fantastic. I've been trying not to say anything, but you brought it up. I brought it up.

00:36:44.260 You got a little ways to go, but you didn't grow a beard. Don't beard shame me though. You know,

00:36:48.500 of like, I don't take well to that. It's like, fair enough. I'm sorry. I want you to feel okay

00:36:53.240 with, with your feelings are so important. They are. They are. So hopefully my delicate

00:36:59.060 modern male constitution will recover from this horrible attack. I'm sorry that I, that I put you

00:37:06.460 in this position. I'm sorry that your words are violence. Well, that's a funny thing too,

00:37:10.780 is the words that we use, man. Like when people say, Oh, he, he attacked me verbally.

00:37:15.880 Like, what does that even mean? That means you're a sissy.

00:37:20.360 How does somebody attack you verbally? You need a safe space.

00:37:23.960 Right. Oh, crazy. Which goes back to what we were saying, the sissified world that we live in. So

00:37:29.360 what's, what's the solution? I don't know. But one thing, well, if, if the world is dangerous

00:37:34.620 and, and you are so delicate that someone's words or ideas or thoughts can cause such upset,

00:37:43.700 I know the answer for successful living is certainly not to declare safe spaces. Yes. As if

00:37:51.080 the world will bow down to your, your delicateness. The only answer is, is to get stronger. That's it.

00:37:58.620 So that, that doesn't bother you. The world's not going to bow to us. It never has. We've been

00:38:04.520 fighting for survival. And now we take it so desperately for granted. We've run out of things

00:38:10.040 to complain about and our real complaints. Yeah. You know, like, I forget it was like memes

00:38:14.860 or something where some starving Rwandan child is asking this person to tell me more about your

00:38:22.320 first world problems of like, and then your AC went out and they've got like distended belly

00:38:27.120 from starvation. And the, the, the point is valid. We are just so spoiled. And I'm not saying

00:38:34.360 they, I'm spoiled too. Right. We take advantage of it.

00:38:37.780 I purposefully want to tap into a little inner masochism sometimes of like, you know what?

00:38:43.380 Today is freezing cold shower day. And I go just turn it down. I'm like, no, maybe I'll cheat it. I'm

00:38:49.380 like, no, do it. Do it. Like, Oh, let the misery take me. Yes. I think it's good for character. I think

00:38:56.180 it's just, uh, as a good for, cause then for the next three weeks, I'm so grateful for every hot

00:39:03.900 shower. Not only that, but you're much more capable of dealing with other things that might

00:39:08.220 arise that aren't catastrophic. You know, your, your cab doesn't arrive on time or the microphone

00:39:13.020 doesn't work quite right. Or the, or the gallop at Starbucks doesn't get your mocha frappuccino

00:39:17.780 flavor, right? Like you can deal with that stuff.

00:39:20.480 Well, then not that last one. That one might be a little bit too hard.

00:39:23.000 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Easy.

00:39:24.880 How about you back up coffee, bro?

00:39:26.540 Coffee. Uh, I get coffee. Yeah, I actually don't, I don't drink coffee. So when people

00:39:32.940 talk about coffee and it's funny cause we ran some events, we had an event at my property

00:39:37.440 in Maine earlier in, well, it was last year. Uh, I give feedback forms. I'm like, all right,

00:39:42.420 tell me like what you liked, what you didn't like. How can we improve this? And 80% of the

00:39:46.160 recipients said, bro, we got to have coffee. It didn't even cross my mind. So I had no coffee

00:39:51.800 there.

00:39:52.040 You live in Maine?

00:39:53.180 I'm Maine. Yes.

00:39:53.960 Cool, man. Can I come stay at your house? I love Maine.

00:39:55.920 Have you been there?

00:39:57.020 Yeah. Yeah. We did, uh, we did this awesome road trip. My, my wife and I and, uh, one other

00:40:02.820 couple rented a car and went like hit 19 states. I went through New England and did this big

00:40:07.980 loop, but Maine was one of my favorite states.

00:40:09.800 Maine's amazing. Well, it's always amazing. I like it year round cause I've been there now

00:40:14.420 through a summer, spring and now into a winter. Uh, but obviously, you know, summer is the best

00:40:20.780 time. Yeah. Summer, early fall is incredible. Anyway, Maine's awesome.

00:40:24.480 When I left, it was negative eight. When I left to come out here, 67 degrees. So we had

00:40:29.400 like a 70 degree heat difference. And, uh, I got to say it's pretty nice.

00:40:33.440 Cool. Well, I'm going to come see you in Maine. I'm going to bring my old lady too. We'll

00:40:35.940 double date it.

00:40:36.660 You're welcome.

00:40:37.300 We'll solve all the world's problems.

00:40:38.680 Yes.

00:40:39.080 It'll be fantastic.

00:40:39.420 It'll be easy. We'll do it in a weekend and we'll drive on.

00:40:42.700 Yeah.

00:40:42.740 You talk about beating yourself up a little bit. One of the things I was thinking about,

00:40:45.380 I don't know if you can see, I got a little bit of a black eye here.

00:40:47.320 Oh yeah. It is fantastic.

00:40:48.380 It is. It's great.

00:40:49.240 It's kind of weak, but, um, yeah, it's good. Took a knee to the knee to the eye socket the

00:40:53.180 other night.

00:40:53.700 You're doing jujitsu stuff now.

00:40:55.280 Good for you, man. That that's awesome.

00:40:57.060 It is good. And you know, the guy's like, are you right? Yeah. I'm like, yeah, I'm fine.

00:41:00.760 And, uh, no big deal. But like I wear it with a badge of honor because like we don't get

00:41:05.440 to get punched in the face.

00:41:06.660 No.

00:41:06.980 And, and I think men need that. We need that adventure. We need a little bit of risk and

00:41:11.880 we need to inoculate ourselves against what else is going to happen in life.

00:41:15.360 I'll, I'll punch you in the face.

00:41:17.520 Well, I got it. I'm already, I got it. I check it off the list. I don't need it anymore.

00:41:21.020 Well, I'm trying to help. And I just don't appreciate you being all like negative about

00:41:25.440 it. I'm like, I'm offering.

00:41:27.280 I appreciate the offer, but I'm going to, I'm going to pass.

00:41:30.960 All right. Whatever.

00:41:32.200 I'm just trying to help.

00:41:33.060 Whatever, dude.

00:41:33.460 So now this guy, come on, man. Come on, you know, like.

00:41:37.260 Whatever, whatever. You know, okay. Just, you do whatever, bro.

00:41:41.040 You do whatever you want.

00:41:42.180 Yeah. Remember, remember when we were talking about feedback? Yeah. I don't need that.

00:41:45.060 I don't need your feedback. All right. So what, what, what else do you do as far as like,

00:41:49.200 um, hard things, right? Like, well, I, how else do you challenge yourself? Cold showers?

00:41:54.020 Check. What else?

00:41:55.200 Uh, well, I got kids.

00:41:56.980 Yeah. Everyone's like, are you crazy? I'm like, I'm crazy.

00:42:00.640 How many kids do you have?

00:42:01.760 I have two and we're working on an adoption.

00:42:04.220 Awesome.

00:42:04.580 Uh, which is a just terrible process of bureaucracy, outrageous money. It all looks

00:42:11.600 very, very shady and just, it's awful. Yeah. It's almost a little disgusting.

00:42:18.460 It is. Only to be outdone by, you know, some of the goat rope that foster care is of like,

00:42:22.480 here, they have a baby that they can't take care of or don't want.

00:42:27.440 We want to take care of it. Right. Let's just do a handoff. Right. And then the government says,

00:42:33.580 I'll help. And then $60,000 later, a year and everything of like, and I do believe of like,

00:42:40.820 all right, let's do a little background check. So they find out that we're not in fact,

00:42:44.820 you know, Jeffrey Dahmer and like, okay, good. We got some background check. Right.

00:42:48.540 Can we do that for less than $60,000? Can we figure out a little scheme to make sure? Cause

00:42:55.140 they're already, it's like they're in a situation where they're in a high rise building. It's burning

00:43:01.140 on fire. And the future of this kid may be an abortion or it may be the system. It's a bad thing.

00:43:09.720 And so, you know, nobody stands on the burning building and refuses to jump because they want

00:43:16.940 to make sure the trampoline is OSHA certified. I'm kind of like, this is dire straits. Let's do a

00:43:23.800 little due diligence. Is that a trampoline? Are you sure? All right, I'm going. All right.

00:43:28.160 Is it kind of halfway set up? Good. I'm going. So let's do it. Anyway, so we got kids. I work out

00:43:34.260 regularly and I push myself that way. We're always, you know, running and gunning that stuff.

00:43:42.220 I'm in business as well of like, we have other stuff that's going on. And so that's,

00:43:46.860 that's certainly really difficult stuff. Some fighting here and there stuff.

00:43:53.400 What kind of fighting?

00:43:54.600 Jiu-jitsu is kind of an old hat for me. And so that's good. And I'm just kind of pushing into

00:43:59.920 other areas of collapse, whether it's knife stuff or a force on force stuff is that'll really get

00:44:05.580 your blood going because you're, you're fighting each other. You're trying to shoot each other.

00:44:09.580 And so force on force is an old hat for me too. What kind of, what kind of technology is utilized

00:44:15.180 for that? I don't, I don't really know too much about it. So I can take my Glocks, convert them over.

00:44:20.140 So I'm shooting my lower, but I just change up kind of the upper of my pistol or change out the

00:44:25.300 bolt in my AR. And now we can take my training munitions and we can just shoot each other.

00:44:28.680 And they're rubber bullets. Is that what they are? Or no, they're a little plastic tip

00:44:32.620 with a little paint in them. It hurts. You wouldn't want to expose skin. They're screaming

00:44:37.200 out there a couple hundred, two, 300 feet per second. Right. So when you get hit, you'll

00:44:41.980 know it. You feel it. Yeah. You feel it. And so the adrenaline pumps up and you start on one

00:44:46.320 side, I start on the other and we just see what happens. Right. No alibis. There's no, there's

00:44:51.220 no, well, I would, uh, find out what you're going to do. What happened? If like I got shot in the

00:44:56.080 face, I'm like, well, then you would have died. Let's do it again and see how this goes.

00:45:00.020 And so that's funny. Yeah. We do, uh, we do at our events, we do airsoft with, with the

00:45:04.400 guys and man, we just have a great time doing that. And airsoft can be a good training tool.

00:45:08.260 So me as a tactical trainer, I can utilize different tools, but if you aren't, uh, with

00:45:15.620 somebody who has a, uh, some experience to know how to craft that training and how to

00:45:22.000 use proper scenarios. So I can, I can kind of craft this out. It can very quickly denigrate

00:45:28.200 into a bunch of kids running around in a circle, pew, pew. And then, you know, it, it loses

00:45:33.620 its value as a tool. We ought to talk about that, but it's a good tool in and of itself.

00:45:38.580 It's really helpful. The fur, the first few hours you play it. And then after that you

00:45:42.500 start playing airsoft rather than really fighting. And I'll watch some airsofters do stuff and

00:45:48.200 I'll be like, good. All right. I like that. That's good. Whoa. What was that? Yeah. All

00:45:53.120 right. You got the hit. No one could ever pull that off in a fight. You wouldn't try and

00:45:58.420 it wouldn't work. Right. I was like, no, the bullets just go straight through the walls in real

00:46:02.120 life. I was like, no, you'd have this thing called fear. They wouldn't do that. And you

00:46:05.480 wouldn't do that. So you need someone to be able to call a horse crap on stuff and, and

00:46:11.260 make scenarios so that the tool can do really well. But I've used airsoft in my training

00:46:18.200 courses. Sometimes, uh, it's a fine tool. I like it. I've used it. Uh, and, and you would

00:46:24.260 have the same problem using this other training technology I have. It's the same problem. It's

00:46:28.220 more of, you need somebody who's walked through the fire to show you and help you do that.

00:46:33.140 And in some degrees, if you've never done any force on force, you don't need somebody like

00:46:38.460 that. Get the tools, get protective gear. So you don't lose an eye or something. Yeah.

00:46:43.400 And then try out just have fun, do it a little bit. So go ahead and get welted up. And that's

00:46:49.040 immediately whatever you try to do is going to be good. I'm talking more as once you've been

00:46:54.200 doing it for a while, the next, that'll get you so far. And now you need somebody who helps

00:47:01.100 you script that out, uh, so that it actually feels like a fight, a real fight. Uh, and

00:47:07.100 so that's valuable in that situation. You know, it's, um, this is a valuable lesson into mentorship

00:47:12.420 and the power of mentorship because I know a lot of guys who, whether it's arrogance or

00:47:16.420 just not believing they need mentorship or coaching or guidance who, who don't look at

00:47:20.680 it right. They think, Oh no, I got this. I got this. And to a degree, yes, you can figure

00:47:25.120 it out all on your own and it'll take you longer and more painful and more expensive

00:47:28.480 and everything else. But man, mentorship is so, so powerful. Having the right people

00:47:33.660 that can coach you, that can consult you and guide you and lead you to a place that you're

00:47:37.560 trying to go. Yeah. You have mentors in your life? Yeah, I do. But it was when I was younger

00:47:42.040 where I could be like, this is my mentor. And I was looking for that, but it was kind of more

00:47:46.120 of like, if you took a biblical example, it was like, everyone's like feeling like Timothy

00:47:50.240 looking for their apostle Paul. Right. He's going to be my mentor. Right. And the older

00:47:54.880 I get, I noticed a lot of people just stop progressing. They get to a point and then they

00:47:59.240 stop growing and they go to work and they, you know, maybe a bank account will grow, but

00:48:02.920 they just kind of log in time in terms of human, uh, you know, uh, us, our, our soul progress

00:48:09.440 for lack of a better term, people get to a point and stop growing. Maybe this person's

00:48:13.740 60 years old, but they really stopped growing at 30. Maybe this guy's 70. He never stopped

00:48:18.240 growing and he'll be alleged. Everyone's going to want to get sure. Yeah. Uh, but, but I don't

00:48:22.860 want that to happen, but it's hard. I, there's not many people I could go to and be like, this

00:48:27.460 is my mentor. Instead, what I do is I find somebody who's really good at one area and I want to emulate

00:48:33.580 that area. So when I think, I don't think mentor anymore. I think mentors so that I can inherit

00:48:39.940 their strengths without their weaknesses. Uh, and so this, this person just does family really

00:48:45.240 well. And so we, I can think, I'm thinking of their faces right now. We're like, we have

00:48:50.280 stolen so much about how we do kids and family and dates from them and this other, you know,

00:48:58.340 in, in, in business, this is who we look at. I'm like, man, that's awesome. We're in the tactical

00:49:03.400 realm of like these four somewhere in the average of those four. And so it's more like

00:49:10.560 that. Right. Uh, so that makes sense. And you know, mentorship that we'll use that term.

00:49:16.060 It's never been easier. What do you mean? Well, I mean, if you're trying to look for an expert

00:49:21.200 in, you know, firearms, tactical training or jujitsu or writing a book or starting a podcast,

00:49:26.520 like it's, it's everywhere. And it's so readily available. You just have to have a little bit

00:49:31.480 of initiative and a little bit of focus on what it is you're after and you can find it.

00:49:35.320 I couldn't agree more. One, one thing is I think somewhere in mentorship, there should be some type

00:49:41.480 of reciprocation. Meaning that that's probably the, not what I'm looking for. It's good to know them

00:49:48.160 and be able to get what they know. Yes. But I also want the better people, the smarter people to know

00:49:53.760 me so that I have some type of accountability and they can speak into my life. You can't, nobody can

00:49:58.720 see yourself. You think you can see you, right? You can't really see you. It's not objective.

00:50:02.600 Right. You can't see you. You're, you you're looking out. Everyone else is looking in though.

00:50:06.860 And so out there is, is where I can gain the perspective and see all my blind spots. You know,

00:50:12.540 it's like, you got a big kick me sign on your back. You can't see that, but your mentors can.

00:50:18.800 And so I do want some mentors that can speak into my life and say, John, I know you think you're

00:50:23.280 doing well, but you're jacked up right here, bro. You're totally missing it. And, uh, you know,

00:50:29.040 wise mentors around you will be the first to know. Yes. And if you've invited them to speak into your

00:50:34.380 life, I want them to tell me the bad thing. And then hopefully I'll have the discipline, restraint,

00:50:42.100 and the humility to say, thank you. I'll think about it, pray about it, work on it rather than

00:50:48.140 arguing, which would be more my proclivity. I think that's most people's. Well, that's the

00:50:53.080 value of, so, so I talk about the ease of, of finding these mentors, right? Which is good,

00:50:58.280 but it's also a trap because then you might be led into the belief that you don't have to have

00:51:04.080 people physically around you. Yeah. And I think for men, there's something to be said for standing

00:51:08.560 physically shoulder to shoulder in a, in a same fight or a same mission or a same purpose,

00:51:14.740 working towards the same thing and trying to hold your brother to the, to the left of you,

00:51:19.400 to the right of you accountable for doing the same thing. Yeah. That's something

00:51:23.060 a lot of guys struggle with though. A lot of guys who, who write into the podcast or reach out to me

00:51:27.240 on Facebook or Instagram, ask about that. Like, how do you find guys in your area that you can

00:51:31.960 connect with? What, yeah, any recommendations or thoughts with that? Yeah. I've been collecting

00:51:37.980 them for a long time. They don't come easy. Yes. Well, they do, but the good ones don't.

00:51:42.420 Very good. And they're so busy. Especially as I get older and I want people to pour into me,

00:51:47.060 a lot of people just stopped growing or they're just so ridiculously sought after. You can't get

00:51:52.780 access to it. One thing is I'll say, don't be so snooty and so picky. Recognize immediately here,

00:51:59.280 this should take a load off. Don't look for the one person that's got it all together because they

00:52:03.940 don't exist. And you think you do. You don't have it all together either. Find somebody who's doing

00:52:09.060 something really well. And they're a mentor in that area of life. Because if you're looking for

00:52:15.200 the big package deal thing, you're just probably not going to find it. And then when you do stumble

00:52:22.460 upon it and be like, this person is not Jesus after all, then you'll judge them and they're out.

00:52:27.980 Right. And then you find yourself completely adrift. No one's speaking into your life. No one's

00:52:33.560 calling out your blind spots. And that means you're going to have a wreck. Well, and I think you're

00:52:38.280 speaking to the idea of it being reciprocal too. So if you and I, you know, we're in each other's

00:52:43.900 lives, for example, you should be able to share things with me I need to see. And you should also

00:52:48.900 be open to receiving information from me because I don't have everything figured out and neither do

00:52:53.420 you. Yeah. So I think in somebody you're looking to band with, it's got to be somebody who's willing

00:52:57.960 to share truthfully and also willing to accept truthfully the things they need to hear as well.

00:53:03.320 That's good. Are you buttering me up to tell me how jacked up I am about stuff? Have I missed the

00:53:07.120 mark? I'm just hoping, like I'm kind of alluding to the fact that like, will you, will you be my

00:53:11.580 mentor? That's what I'm looking for. I thought you were going to offer to be mine. No, no,

00:53:15.940 I need your mentorship more than. No, no, no. I need yours more than you need mine. Here we go.

00:53:20.380 Here we go. Here's, here's my ground rules. All right. If I'm going to be your mentor, no direct

00:53:24.040 eye contact. Okay. Fair, fair. Eyes down. Yes. Uh, you have to always be a little lower than you. Yeah.

00:53:29.240 When you're, I'm anywhere in the vicinity. If you have to go to the bathroom, you have to sit down to pee.

00:53:32.960 Okay. People are like, holy cow, did he just say that? I just thought that was funny in my head.

00:53:39.800 No, no. It was funnier in your head than it was. Yeah, sorry. I have a lot of that. I've got the

00:53:44.120 dad joke syndrome. Yeah, well. You know, I'm like, I feel, in my heart, I feel like I'm hilarious,

00:53:49.640 but all the data is to the contrary. It is funny how funny a joke can sound in your head and you say it

00:53:56.840 and your kids are like, crash and burn. I'm not funny. Or your wife, my wife's really good at saying I'm not

00:54:01.600 funny. Maybe I'm just way ahead of everyone. That's what it is. You don't get it. You don't

00:54:06.460 get the joke. Now I'm thinking of the movie, The Joker. What is it? I saw it, but at the end,

00:54:13.040 he's like in the, Oh yeah, you wouldn't get it. Oh, you wouldn't get it. That's right. And he's

00:54:16.820 challenging the structure of comedy. Yes. He's like, who gets to decide what's funny? Why can't I? I'm

00:54:22.040 kind of like, well, if you're in a mental ward for killing a bunch of people, let's say you don't get to

00:54:26.760 decide. You don't get a vote on this. That is an insane movie. Literally insane movie. It was a

00:54:32.540 great movie though. I thought it was amazing. It was incredible. Joaquin Phoenix is on another

00:54:37.700 level. Yeah. Yeah. He's incredible. Yeah. He was truly a amazing bad guy, but all the psychological,

00:54:45.460 I mean, it's really off-putting. It's really disturbing. It is disturbing. You can't quite get

00:54:49.600 it out of your city. You're thinking about it four days later. That's what I did too. I was like,

00:54:53.020 that's psychotic. That's weird. One thing I don't like about it all is he, the Joker is known for

00:54:58.840 being like the criminal mastermind. Yes. He's thinking 35 steps ahead in the game of chess,

00:55:04.780 but this character didn't have that. No. So what I wanted more in the Joker is I wanted them to

00:55:11.040 develop the Bobby Fisher, brilliant intellect, but instead you didn't see that. But I think that's

00:55:19.120 why I liked it though, because it wasn't the same storyline or even the same character really.

00:55:24.940 It wasn't. And I like this, but it wasn't the Joker that I've known. Yes. The Joker was the

00:55:31.080 brilliant psychopath. And this guy was just a psycho. Just a psycho. Right. Didn't have the

00:55:39.560 brilliance. I wanted to, and it could have been an easy ride in. Let's just watch him. He saw two

00:55:44.180 Rubik's cube. It's at the same time. It was like two Rubik's cubes of like same time. I'm like,

00:55:48.460 oh, well, oh, this guy's brilliant. And then move on to like, it could have been a really quick thing

00:55:52.460 of brilliance is if you can solve a Rubik's cube, two of them at the same time. I don't know. Write

00:55:56.120 in anything that lets me know of like, oh, and there it is. And that, the movie was missing that.

00:56:01.380 So there was a disconnect from the Joker I knew. The movie was, and this is how the Joker came about.

00:56:07.600 It was supposed to be a backstory on the guy you knew, but instead they gave me somebody I didn't know.

00:56:11.300 Right. Maybe he just got smarter later. Anyway, great movie. Love the movie. Big rabbit trail.

00:56:17.660 Great movie. Who knows how we got to this? I did not plan on talking about this movie when I was

00:56:22.060 thinking about what we'd talk about today. Yep. But it is what it is. Yeah. He clearly was not a

00:56:26.820 member of the Order of Man. He should be though. He should be. Well, we need, we need more guy or

00:56:31.100 Warrior Poet Society for that matter. That's right. Just don't wear my t-shirt on TV for a while.

00:56:35.220 Let's, let's, let's sort some things up. Let's straighten this out first. Like not murdering

00:56:40.280 people on television. It was a hardcore movie. It was. All right. Moving on. No more movie.

00:56:45.820 Yes. Moving on. So let's, let's talk a little bit. Firearms. We haven't really talked too much

00:56:49.900 about that. Sure. So my question is, where do we start? Uh, let's, let's talk about basic information

00:56:57.940 information for novices who are considering, okay, what, what do I need to be carrying on my

00:57:02.800 person on just for everyday use? What, what kind of training do I need? Cause a lot of guys,

00:57:07.860 what I think they'll do is they'll think because they own a firearm, they happen to carry it on

00:57:10.860 their body that all of a sudden they're more protected. And I might argue that not only are

00:57:14.680 they not more protected, they're probably more dangerous that they don't have to go if they don't

00:57:18.200 have the training to go with it. Yeah. So what, what should somebody who's looking at protecting

00:57:24.520 themselves, getting the right training and getting the right equipment in place be looking for?

00:57:29.600 Let's start with what you're up against. What you're up against is the average gunfight is over

00:57:35.740 in a total of three seconds. That is so fast. Three seconds. It happens at a distance of three yards

00:57:42.780 and in. So it's really, it's fist fight kind of range. Sure. It's within a 96% of all violent

00:57:49.500 encounters in a civilian law enforcement context or within seven yards. That's the length of a

00:57:54.500 car. Right. Military is a little bit different, but the majority of that 96%, it's all within just

00:58:01.520 like here, me to you. Right. It comes out of nowhere. Yeah. And generally a total of three

00:58:07.440 shots will be fired. So when you think about that, if it's like, it's closer than you imagined,

00:58:12.480 it happens way faster, way more violent. And it's just really hard to react at all. What that means

00:58:20.600 is whatever we're carrying, you got to be able to draw it in a, the blink of an eye, having it in

00:58:27.100 your glove box somewhere in your car in section A9. Right. Isn't going to help you. You need a gun

00:58:34.680 three seconds ago. Right. You think of like all of a sudden somebody, and I'm describing a bit of a

00:58:40.580 worst case, somebody, all of a sudden you turn around and there's a gun in your face. Well, but that's

00:58:43.680 what you need to be prepared for. Because if it's not that worst case, well, you are prepared for worst

00:58:47.500 case. You can certainly handle something that's not worst case. That's right. Absolutely. Fantastic.

00:58:53.260 So one piece of this, because of that, I put a pretty high priority on martial arts, but martial

00:58:59.100 arts is not enough. You martial artists to be like, whatever, I know Kung Fu. I'm like, dude,

00:59:03.020 shut up. It's not enough. In a world of guns and knives and stuff like that, if you're a really good

00:59:07.820 martial artist, you will know that man, weapons change stuff. No doubt. Also the gun community could

00:59:13.420 know this as well, because hey, gun isn't nearly enough due to the constraints of the average gun

00:59:18.540 fight. Man, it's probably going to be a martial arts fight. You really need to be pretty proficient

00:59:23.060 at both and know that. But the precedent is really put on speed. The impetus is really put on raw,

00:59:29.900 nasty. You can get that gun out in a moment and respond. Right. Because if a bad guy who's an

00:59:36.940 ambushing predator, that's what a bad guy is, if they lay an ambush, you have fractions of a second

00:59:44.320 oftentimes. So more important than this model or this model or what you like is something that you

00:59:51.020 can get out very, very quick and put into action. And also I'll want a bunch of other stuff so that

00:59:57.660 you need to be able to be able to conceal it well. It needs to be comfortable. I'll put a huge priority

01:00:04.160 on comfort because if it's not a comfortable way to carry, eventually you will stop carrying.

01:00:10.600 Sure. You think I'll be disciplined. No, you won't. You'll eventually stop carrying. If my wife feels

01:00:16.020 fat carrying the holster and gun, she will eventually not carry it. She will probably not

01:00:22.200 carry it at all. Interesting. Yep. So if she feels unsafe, she's not going to carry. And so I've got to

01:00:26.560 go through a whole bunch of different stuff that usually lands me at a pretty narrow option. So

01:00:31.700 typically with gals who approach me of like, what gun should I carry? I'll say, all right, well,

01:00:36.840 let's think about some training and doing that stuff. If you're going to get a gun,

01:00:41.560 here's three or four options. Choose whatever you like. What I don't want you to do is go to a gun

01:00:47.440 store and be at the, you know, mercy of whatever dude is behind the counter that wants to give her a

01:00:54.980 snub nose 357 that weighs 0.2 ounces, you know, and she can't even pull the trigger back. It's a 12

01:01:02.700 pound trigger. That's about a mile and a half long. Hyperbole. But I'm like, that's a sucky gun. He just

01:01:08.800 didn't know anything. And he's a retailer of guns. He's not a pro shooter, you know, but it doesn't mean

01:01:15.160 sometimes they have good advice. Sometimes they have bad, but you don't show a lot of people when they

01:01:19.220 select a gun, they do it on just a few criteria. One of my daddy said, right. Somebody told me to

01:01:25.580 use this. You shot this once in 1985, you're sentimental sweet on it. You know it. And so

01:01:29.540 you went and bought it. Right. And that's one thing. Other people just like the color and look,

01:01:34.140 and then they like the way it feels in your hand. I hear that all the time. Generally what that

01:01:40.760 translates to, there is something to be said for how it feels. Right. But in the scheme of all the

01:01:46.180 things that are important, you know, it's a tiny, tiny issue. I don't really care as much about the

01:01:50.940 comfort of how it feels in your hand. If you really want comfort, buy a cardigan sweater.

01:01:56.320 Sure. If you want something that's beautiful,

01:01:59.320 get a painting, you know, like this is a tool. I care about physiology, biomechanics,

01:02:05.720 synthetic nervous system response. I care about the angles and the draw stroke. And so what that

01:02:10.980 means is I'm talking science and they're talking aesthetics and art. And so it's the lowest

01:02:16.400 denominator. They don't know what to look for. So they're like, Ooh, that's a cute color. I like

01:02:20.620 the way that feels in my hand. I'm like, you're gripping it wrong. You know, it's like, I don't

01:02:24.920 like the way that feels in my hand. Well, you're holding it wrong. Yeah. That's almost 10 out of 10

01:02:29.560 times is true with a new thing of like, I like the way you're holding it wrong. Oh, that feels much

01:02:34.860 better. I'm like, yeah, exactly. Because it was made for that. And so the big thing is, is people read

01:02:39.880 their form and they trust somebody that gave them bad advice, or they went off a few indices that

01:02:44.920 were actually ended up being irrelevant rather than just go in these few criteria. Now, just to

01:02:49.820 be pragmatic, generally, I'll recommend for ladies or people who want to really maximize comfort

01:02:56.280 in everyday carry. If you go a subcompact, it is easier and more comfortable to carry a smaller gun

01:03:02.460 than a bigger gun. But if you get a really small gun, it's nice, it's cute, but they're a little bit

01:03:07.840 more dangerous because the stuff is just right. And it's very hard to get out quickly. And it's

01:03:13.000 extremely hard to fight with. So you want something big enough that you can actually fight with it

01:03:18.060 and small enough so that you'll actually carry. I'll carry a bigger gun when I'm out with my family

01:03:24.300 or I'm out in a public place. I'll carry my war poet pistol. We have a gun. It is amazing. It's the

01:03:29.320 best bang for the buck kind of thing. But that's what I carry. It's a bigger gun. It's a Glock 19 size

01:03:35.380 frame. It'll hold 16 rounds. But, you know, if I'm going to the office or I'm just hanging out

01:03:41.540 solo, I want to be more comfortable and I'm not going to always carry that. And so maybe 40% of

01:03:47.180 the time I'm carrying a subcompact. It's a tiny gun. And typically I'll lay out the subcompact

01:03:53.040 options. And I'm like, right now at the time of doing this, so January, whatever, 2020, right now,

01:03:58.420 it's I like the Glock 43. So you can choose that. I like the M&P Shield. I like the Sig 365. I like

01:04:05.380 the Springfield Hellcat. So here's four. Choose any one of them. Right. And now let's get a good

01:04:11.200 holster that goes on with it. Own that gun. Shoot that gun. Get training on that gun so that you know

01:04:17.520 how to do this stuff. And then take her out. Yeah. And any one of them, whatever. It's like,

01:04:22.760 well, what's the best? And if I get the wrong one, I'm going to die. I'm like, no, it's,

01:04:26.580 it's not that it's really more about the training. It's less about the gear, but one of those four

01:04:32.860 and people like, well, I want an external safety. I'm like, well, that the holster now is the safety.

01:04:38.400 There's all kinds of props. You can do that. You can get it, but there's things I need to show you

01:04:44.160 that only force on force stuff later on, you'll know why I roped into a very specific choice.

01:04:53.380 And until you know that it's in the thing of, you don't know what you don't know. It's kind of like,

01:04:58.320 I want the whatever. And then you actually take off to the range and you do stuff and you're like,

01:05:02.860 man, I don't like that at all. It's like, yeah, that's because it's really fun to hold. But that

01:05:06.700 little noisy cricket right there, you shoot it and it's kind of like, oh my God, I hate that.

01:05:10.440 That's terrible. Get rid of this gun. Yeah. And so there you go. That makes sense. That's a lot of

01:05:15.620 talking. I'm sorry. I just went after it. No, it's a good primer though. And I think there's a lot of guys

01:05:20.460 who are listening who want to know, okay, well, what do I need to do? What do I need to consider?

01:05:23.900 But I think you're dead on with that, the idea of the training, right? And how critical and crucial

01:05:28.380 that is. Like you don't get to just check a box because you own a firearm. I mean, maybe you feel

01:05:33.400 a little better, but in reality, it's not really going to put you in a better situation if you don't

01:05:37.680 have that training that goes along with it. We actually ought to consider having you come out to

01:05:42.120 our events. That'd be an opportunity for you to get out to Maine and then teach some of these guys

01:05:47.480 a little bit of firearm instruction, which I think would be pretty valuable. Sounds good,

01:05:51.680 man. Yeah. Man, we could go on all day. I want to be respectful of your time. We've got other

01:05:56.520 things that we need to do as well. So let's start wrapping things up. I do want to ask you a

01:06:01.400 question. I didn't prepare you for this though. Bring it on. I didn't know what you're doing with

01:06:04.800 any of this. Well, that's true. That is true. Good point. You make a great point. The question is,

01:06:09.260 what does it mean to be a man? Oh, man, that's hard. I'll probably go more of the things we major

01:06:19.500 on are probably leadership, provision, and protection. So in the idea of traditional gender

01:06:30.460 roles, which I subscribe to, not that one is more important than another, male and female. We are

01:06:38.360 inherently different physiologically. And I think in our just general roles, we are more set

01:06:48.120 to certain things. Now, women can lead, obviously. Women can provide and women can protect. But

01:06:56.780 generally speaking, when there's a bump in the night, the man goes and checks it out. Sure. Not

01:07:03.920 the woman. And there's exceptions. There's some really dangerous women out there who are fierce

01:07:08.980 defenders and amazing bread-winning providers and amazing leaders. But generally speaking,

01:07:19.680 for me, which I can speak for me, to me, I'm supposed to major on leadership protection

01:07:27.960 and provision. My wife does not major on them, but she minors in them.

01:07:33.600 I like that. I like that framing. That makes a lot of sense.

01:07:36.260 So she's doing all that stuff too, but it is primarily in my home. And I get to speak for my

01:07:41.760 home because it's mine and not yours. And if you have a problem with it, run your home differently

01:07:45.300 and watch. I won't judge you at all. You do you. But in the Lovell household here, I major on

01:07:52.800 protection, provision, and general leadership. And that's a real, my wife is flourishing.

01:07:57.940 Right.

01:07:58.100 She wants me to lead. And I do that in a real, you know, in a real collaborative way. We do stuff

01:08:04.920 together. But generally, I'm taking point on most stuff. Right. Not social stuff. She is queen of the

01:08:12.080 social kind of calendar. And she's why our family relationships are still good.

01:08:17.880 And, you know, it's like, she is the keeper outside of work. My wife is totally in charge

01:08:23.360 of everything. And I just say, yep. Okay. Perfect. We got to go to the so-and-sos at seven

01:08:28.240 o'clock. And I'm like, oh, all right, fine. I'll do whatever you, okay, I'm doing it. I'll do

01:08:32.000 whatever you say. You are in charge. So people are going to grab a sound bite to something I said

01:08:37.020 before without any context and make me a monster. But well, yeah, welcome. You guys suck if you do

01:08:42.200 that. Welcome to, well, yeah. Welcome to putting yourself out there. Eh, whatever. I'm glad that you

01:08:47.860 said that. You know, what you said are actually the three words that we subscribe to, which

01:08:51.260 is why this conversation was inevitable. We talk about protect, provide, and we talk about

01:08:56.760 leadership, preside. So protect, provide, preside. Because alliteration. P's. They all

01:09:01.800 start with the letter P. It makes sense. Very powerful. And poignant. Well played. Well

01:09:08.560 played. All right. How do we connect with you? Oh, yeah. Just type in warrior poet, wherever,

01:09:13.960 or John Lovell, wherever. So Instagram, it'd be warrior poet. Facebook, warrior poet. YouTube,

01:09:19.500 warrior poet. Our website, warriorpoetsociety.us. You get the idea. Warrior poet's probably going

01:09:24.400 to be a good way to do this. They'll be able to track you down, and we'll make sure we sync

01:09:27.200 it up so the guys know where to go. Appreciate you, brother. Thanks so much, man. Looking forward

01:09:30.240 to hopefully doing some stuff together in the future. Yeah, for sure. I know we have some

01:09:33.580 other stuff to do this afternoon. Yeah. And what a great conversation. Sounds good, man.

01:09:38.240 Powerful stuff. Awesome. Thanks, man. Yeah, man. Gentlemen, there you go. My conversation with the

01:09:43.600 one and only John Lovell. I hope that you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. That was

01:09:48.380 actually probably in looking back at it, one of the funnest conversations that I've had. He's a great

01:09:53.500 guy, solid guy, knows the stuff, very smart, applies all of this, not only in his organization,

01:10:00.100 warrior poet society, but him individually in his own life. And it's certainly, man, I admire and

01:10:05.580 respect. And I imagine a lot of you guys do as well. If you're not familiar with what he's doing

01:10:09.680 or not already connected with warrior poet society, then go check it out. They do a lot

01:10:14.660 on YouTube. In fact, I was on his YouTube channel several weeks ago. We just did a quick snippet as

01:10:20.100 we were walking around the shot show in Las Vegas, hit him up on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook,

01:10:24.760 wherever you're doing the social media thing. And you won't be disappointed with the information

01:10:28.700 that he's putting out there, the courses that he has available and all the good that he's doing

01:10:33.000 in the world. So do that guys. That's all I've got. I hope that you again, enjoy this conversation.

01:10:38.960 I hope that you're enjoying this mission and what we're doing here. If you have any feedback for me,

01:10:42.880 any thoughts or ideas or guest request or whatever, whatever it may be, please reach out to me.

01:10:49.560 Probably the best place to do that is on Instagram. I'm very, very active over there.

01:10:54.440 You can respond to a post or hit me up in the DMS. I try to get back to all of those as much as I can,

01:11:00.580 which is becoming admittedly increasingly more difficult, but I do the best I can. So hit me up

01:11:05.900 over there. And again, as I started this conversation, please share this. We need to get

01:11:10.020 the word out to more and more people, millions and millions of men and families and communities

01:11:13.660 need to need to hear about this and what we're doing. So share it via a review and, uh, and rating

01:11:20.860 on iTunes. All right, guys, that's it. That's all I've got for you today. We'll be back tomorrow

01:11:24.780 for the Ask Me Anything with Kip Sorensen. Until then, go out there, take action, become

01:11:29.700 the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast. If you're

01:11:34.480 ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be, we invite

01:11:38.720 you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - February 11, 2020

Becoming a Warrior Poet ｜ JOHN LOVELL

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