Order of Man - Becoming Self-Aware, Overcoming Infidelity, and Disincentivizing Bad Behavior

00:00:00.000 It's a betrayal of yourself is what it is.

00:00:02.760 Yeah, she deserves that level of scrutiny.

00:00:04.980 Of course she does.

00:00:06.420 But if you say, hey, I'm going to work on forgiving you,

00:00:10.120 then you're not being in integrity if you don't.

00:00:12.600 And if you cannot stomach it and you cannot learn to forgive her,

00:00:16.800 then you have to be out because it's not fair to you to be in a relationship

00:00:21.220 where you have built up contention, frustration, animosity, resentment,

00:00:26.100 much of it justified and still be in the relationship.

00:00:29.340 You're a man of action.

00:00:33.300 You live life to the fullest.

00:00:34.760 Embrace your fears and boldly charge your own path.

00:00:37.680 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:42.160 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:47.200 This is your life.

00:00:48.300 This is who you are.

00:00:49.700 This is who you will become at the end of the day.

00:00:52.300 And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:56.400 Kip, what's up, brother?

00:00:59.520 Great to see you this Monday morning.

00:01:01.520 Good to see you as well, man.

00:01:03.140 I had a great weekend, productive time with kids.

00:01:07.280 This is one of those Mondays I'm feeling good.

00:01:09.480 I'm ready to get after it and make some.

00:01:10.920 Oh, nice.

00:01:11.540 Yeah.

00:01:11.940 How are you feeling?

00:01:12.560 Good.

00:01:13.460 I'm good, too.

00:01:14.540 I built a fence for the most part of the weekend, and it just did not go as quickly as I thought

00:01:21.280 it would go.

00:01:21.900 I ended up spilling three gallons of paint on my Origin boots and my Origin jeans.

00:01:28.920 What else?

00:01:30.180 But other than that, it was an amazing weekend.

00:01:31.940 Yeah.

00:01:32.800 Isn't that true, though?

00:01:33.500 It actually was.

00:01:34.640 That's crazy, man.

00:01:35.600 The time and the cost.

00:01:36.860 Is there anything that you've ever done project-wise, whether work or at home, that actually goes

00:01:43.040 as quick as you think it would be?

00:01:45.220 There was one time, and I'm 44 years old, and I think I was hanging a picture, and I

00:01:50.920 found the stud immediately, screwed or drilled or hammered right into the stud, hung the thing.

00:01:56.380 It was like when I put it on, I backed up.

00:01:58.400 It was straight.

00:01:59.260 I'm like, oh, that actually only took me 30 seconds, which is what it should take to hang

00:02:04.260 something on the wall, but everything other than that has gone way longer, way over budget,

00:02:10.640 and a lot more frustration.

00:02:12.360 But the fence is coming along.

00:02:13.580 It's going to look really good, and my girlfriend really appreciates how it looks, and we got

00:02:19.200 to do it together with some of her family.

00:02:21.060 So all in all, outside of spilling paint and it costing a little bit more and that sort

00:02:25.240 of thing, it was a really good weekend.

00:02:29.160 I love it, man.

00:02:30.260 I love it.

00:02:31.220 Yeah.

00:02:31.720 Yeah.

00:02:31.940 Will, we got questions.

00:02:32.820 Will, should we get into some questions?

00:02:34.260 Yeah, let's do it.

00:02:34.880 Yeah, I got some questions from the Iron Council, and we'll pop over to Facebook a little bit.

00:02:40.180 Man, kind of some tough questions today, actually.

00:02:43.000 There are, yeah.

00:02:43.960 Yeah, I was looking at these.

00:02:45.200 I was like, oh, man, count your blessings and just realize a lot of people are going through

00:02:52.440 some tough struggles.

00:02:55.560 So our first question from a little bit lighter question from Chris Davis, he said that on his

00:03:03.880 Battle Team Echo, they had an open topic, this Battle Team Eagle, I'm sorry, had an open

00:03:09.080 topic this month.

00:03:10.960 They had a great conversation, but they didn't get to one of their questions, and they thought,

00:03:15.440 hey, let's pose it for the Iron Council or for the AMA.

00:03:18.900 And the question is, what is one skill, habit, or mindset shift you could develop in the next

00:03:25.620 90 days that would make you a stronger man and leader for those who depend on you?

00:03:33.960 I was asking this conversation this weekend.

00:03:36.440 Mindset shift, I'll give you one.

00:03:40.660 If more men did this, their lives would drastically be different.

00:03:44.240 They'd get a lot more done.

00:03:45.640 They would not feel so overwhelmed.

00:03:47.500 The people in their life would have a lot more trust in them, which means their relationships

00:03:51.640 would thrive.

00:03:53.560 They'd feel better about themselves because their confidence levels would go up because

00:03:57.500 they're being in integrity, and they would accomplish a whole lot more, which obviously

00:04:02.000 boosts confidence as well.

00:04:03.760 And that is this, do what you say you're going to do.

00:04:08.320 That's it.

00:04:09.080 Just do what you say you're going to do.

00:04:10.620 And if you're not going to do it, then don't do it.

00:04:12.420 And if you don't want to do it, but you already said you're going to do it, then do it.

00:04:16.120 Yeah.

00:04:16.960 That's it.

00:04:17.920 If you could, if more men, including myself, by the way, I am not perfect at this, but if

00:04:23.020 more men did that, everything else about their life would drastically change.

00:04:28.040 So an example of this is, again, my girlfriend and I were spending some time together this

00:04:32.000 weekend, and I said that the next day, I need to do a 5K ruck in order to accomplish a task

00:04:41.540 that I'm, a physical task that I'm doing inside of our Brotherhood of the Iron Council.

00:04:45.860 And we got busy and distracted, and it got later in the day than we had anticipated doing

00:04:52.780 this, and now it was midday, and it was hot, and I'm like, you know what, in my head, I'm

00:04:57.260 like, you know, I'm not going to do this today.

00:05:01.060 Yeah.

00:05:01.700 We were like midday, lunchtime, we had other plans that evening, I'm just not going to do

00:05:07.440 this.

00:05:08.440 And the minute, not even that, the second I said it, finished that thought in my head,

00:05:12.800 I said, nope, you are going to do it, because you said you're going to do it.

00:05:16.420 So I said, hey, you know what, I have to do this.

00:05:18.420 I would love for you to be there if you don't want it, I get it, but like, I'm going to go

00:05:21.280 do it.

00:05:21.620 She's like, no, I'm in it with you, let's go do it together.

00:05:23.420 And we did, and we cranked it out, and it was hotter than it needed to be, it took longer

00:05:27.020 than I thought it was going to take, just like we were talking about earlier, but that's

00:05:31.740 integrity.

00:05:32.840 And it seems like on little small things that you can just avoid doing that, and you actually

00:05:38.600 have some valid reasons, maybe not to.

00:05:41.740 But I've just found that every time I follow through on doing what I say I'm going to do,

00:05:45.800 even if I figure out later that I don't want to do it, it's just, it's better, it's

00:05:49.920 better across the board.

00:05:52.000 And I, like I said, I haven't always been great at this, and it really erodes trust

00:05:58.100 and credibility in relationships, outside of the other things that I talked about.

00:06:02.540 It's very, very damaging to relationships.

00:06:05.040 And it could be as simple as going to the gym, like you said you were going to go to

00:06:08.920 and do.

00:06:09.920 And you might think, well, that's my choice if I want to, but you know what, other people

00:06:13.120 are watching you.

00:06:14.220 Your significant other is watching you, and she's going to determine whether you're going

00:06:17.940 to do other things based on, can you keep commitments to yourself?

00:06:21.300 Your children, they're watching you, your colleagues, your clients, everybody in your

00:06:24.720 life is watching you.

00:06:26.200 And they are observing, and they are paying attention, and they are taking what you do

00:06:32.020 and the commitments to you hold to yourself, and they're transferring it to, is this a

00:06:35.300 man who's going to be able to hold commitments to me when he says it?

00:06:37.940 And if you can't do it to yourself, you're certainly not going to do it for other people.

00:06:41.380 So that's my mindset.

00:06:42.620 Yeah, I love it, man.

00:06:45.080 You know, Chris, this is a little bit just present on my mind, because this is a discussion

00:06:49.500 that we had on the Friday afternoon call last week, and it was based upon this statistic,

00:06:54.920 which blows my mind.

00:06:56.800 So 95% of people believe that they are self-aware.

00:07:02.500 Guess what the percentage is that actually are?

00:07:07.080 Zero.

00:07:09.980 It's down to 10%.

00:07:11.260 Yeah, 10% to 15% are actually self-aware.

00:07:16.700 And I can't help but realize, you know, and I was even reading a post over the weekend,

00:07:21.660 and someone said something about, we don't realize our impact in the world.

00:07:27.540 We don't realize how much we're affecting people.

00:07:30.320 And a lot of that is due to the fact that we are ignorant to how we're showing up.

00:07:37.480 In fact, most people are not even self-aware enough to consider why they do what they do,

00:07:46.560 what are their triggers, what drives certain behavior, let alone how they are perceived by

00:07:52.240 other individuals.

00:07:53.020 So when I think of one of the most powerful mindsets or ways of thinking are, it is in

00:08:00.180 this space of are you self-aware, both internally and externally?

00:08:04.700 You know and understand how you are showing up in the world and how it impacts people.

00:08:09.220 And I think by doing that, you will be cause to action.

00:08:14.200 And you will slow down a little bit, realize there's that space between a stimulus and your

00:08:21.660 reaction, you'll be more mindful in regards to your words and how they impact people,

00:08:27.180 your actions around people.

00:08:28.760 And so for me, it's all about self-awareness.

00:08:31.660 And I think that's one of the most first steps for anybody on a path of becoming a better

00:08:38.160 version of themselves.

00:08:40.580 Kip, how would you define or how did they define in this study or paper that you read

00:08:45.300 what self-awareness actually means?

00:08:47.480 Because that's one of those words where if 95% of people think they're self-aware and

00:08:54.100 tell me 10% are, then that begs the question, what's the disconnect between what they think

00:09:01.820 that word or that concept actually means?

00:09:04.080 Yeah, it is the separation between fact and perception.

00:09:10.380 So understanding what are facts versus your perceptions, understanding your triggers and

00:09:16.180 understanding the interpretation that you put on events.

00:09:21.140 If you're doing that, you're self-aware.

00:09:24.620 Yeah, I like that.

00:09:26.740 I didn't really have a definition myself, so I like that.

00:09:30.100 But I wrote a couple of things down here in becoming more self-aware.

00:09:33.240 So separating between fact and perception, realizing how you interpret those scenarios.

00:09:37.960 So number one, I wrote down here is doing after action reviews when you complete a task or

00:09:43.400 a hobby or an activity or an assignment or even a conversation, analyze that.

00:09:49.360 How did that go?

00:09:50.440 When you went into that, what did you try to accomplish?

00:09:52.740 When you came out, what didn't work?

00:09:55.360 You know, for example, building this fence, it took a lot longer than I thought it would.

00:09:59.080 Well, part of the reason was is because I didn't measure the brackets correctly and half

00:10:03.880 of them were taller than they needed to be.

00:10:05.720 So I can objectively look at that and say, well, if I would have done that correctly, I

00:10:10.080 would have been a whole lot more efficient with this.

00:10:11.740 If I didn't spill three cans of paint, I wouldn't need to go spend another $130 on buying three

00:10:17.180 more cans of paint to replace that.

00:10:19.280 You know, it's like do these after action reviews, not as a way to beat yourself up,

00:10:23.380 but just to figure out what went wrong, what went well, and how you might be able to improve.

00:10:28.540 Number two, measure performance objectively.

00:10:30.820 So I think this will help minimize the stories that we create on the perceptions that we conjure

00:10:36.880 up in our minds.

00:10:38.180 So if you're at the gym and you want to get stronger, then measure that.

00:10:43.340 How much did you bench press last week?

00:10:45.100 Great.

00:10:45.580 How much did you bench press this week?

00:10:47.480 If you're trying to lock in your diet, how many calories did you consume today?

00:10:51.300 Great.

00:10:51.800 How many calories are you going to consume today?

00:10:54.140 The more that you can be objective with that, the better data you're going to get.

00:10:59.200 And it's going to be more factual rather than opinion based.

00:11:03.460 And then the third component, this will help on those things that are hard to quantify,

00:11:07.080 is to get other people involved and ask other people thoughtful questions.

00:11:11.760 So if you have a conversation with your kid, let's say, you might ask them later,

00:11:16.160 hey, you know, we had that conversation about that incident you had at school.

00:11:20.320 How do you feel after our conversation?

00:11:22.220 How do you feel like I handled it?

00:11:25.140 Do you feel like I addressed everything that you wanted to get addressed?

00:11:28.120 Could I have done something differently that would have helped you navigate that a little

00:11:31.140 bit easier?

00:11:32.420 You're going to get a lot more valuable feedback when you enlist the opinions of other people

00:11:38.720 because they are going to see it differently than you because they don't have the same baggage

00:11:44.500 or lens in which you're looking at it through.

00:11:46.420 And we tell this to guys all the time in the Iron Council.

00:11:48.740 When they say, as a tactic for connection, they say, well, I want to be a better husband.

00:11:54.220 I mean, welcome to the club.

00:11:55.580 I think everybody who's married would, I hope, and anybody who's listening to this podcast

00:11:59.180 would probably attest to that.

00:12:00.480 I want to be a better husband.

00:12:01.740 But what the hell does that even mean?

00:12:03.960 Unless you know exactly what that means, how can you be better at it?

00:12:07.760 Is it more quality time together?

00:12:09.300 Is it more deep and meaningful conversations?

00:12:12.180 Does that equate to intimacy in the bedroom?

00:12:14.820 Does it equate to a vacation that you've been talking about for the past 10 years, the

00:12:18.920 honeymoon that you never went on that you should go on now?

00:12:21.880 But a thing that you can do is ask her, hey, babe, I'm really focused on being a better

00:12:27.740 partner to you this quarter.

00:12:29.280 And I will continue the things that I learned throughout our marriage.

00:12:31.860 But I would like to know, what would you like to see from me where you would think, gee,

00:12:36.780 Ryan's actually a better partner because of X, Y, and Z.

00:12:41.320 You're going to get that feedback, and you're going to be way better equipped to be a quote

00:12:46.860 unquote better husband.

00:12:49.940 Yeah, love it, man.

00:12:51.920 I'm going to leave Dalton's last name off this question.

00:12:55.880 I don't know why a part of me feels that he may not want this fully shared, right?

00:13:02.800 Did he say he wanted it anonymously or no?

00:13:04.920 He didn't, but I don't know.

00:13:07.040 Okay, that's fine.

00:13:07.480 Yeah, just go with your gut on that one.

00:13:10.380 Yeah, go with your gut.

00:13:11.440 So Dalton, I just found out two days ago that my wife has been cheating on me with someone

00:13:16.920 who was a friend of mine for the past five years.

00:13:19.720 How does one decide how much infidelity is too much to be forgiven or for a marriage

00:13:26.600 to be repaired?

00:13:28.000 She swears she is sorry.

00:13:29.660 It will never happen again.

00:13:30.880 But I feel like, though, she's more upset that she got caught than she is that it happened.

00:13:36.660 If it offers any context, this guy is not a high value man outside of the obvious.

00:13:41.780 He's out of shape, an alcoholic, and an absent father.

00:13:44.800 Well, let me say one thing about that first.

00:13:52.200 And I'm very hesitant to say this because I think people are going to take what I'm saying

00:13:58.060 out of context.

00:13:59.820 Talk about after action review.

00:14:01.900 If she's stepping out on you for this guy you're talking about, what is going on with

00:14:07.640 the relationship?

00:14:08.820 What is going on with you?

00:14:09.940 Now, the reason I hesitate to even say that is because that does not justify, rationalize,

00:14:18.320 make it okay.

00:14:20.080 It's a horrible, horrible thing.

00:14:21.840 I can think of few things worse than infidelity.

00:14:25.860 And as far as I know, I've never been cheated on by anybody I've been with exclusively.

00:14:30.240 And I know for 100% fact that I've never cheated on somebody when I'm in an exclusive relationship.

00:14:36.280 It is the lowest of lows, the worst of worst.

00:14:40.220 Look, I can't tell you what is the point of should you stay with her or should you not?

00:14:47.060 I think what I can tell you is that you need to have some conversations here.

00:14:52.260 And it sounds like you know this guy.

00:14:54.960 I would actually, I personally, if it were me, I would have a conversation with that guy.

00:15:01.140 If I could, if I could have, I would.

00:15:03.460 But if it was you, Kip, I would call you up and I'd say, hey, man, look, we need to have

00:15:08.320 a conversation.

00:15:08.920 We can do that over the phone.

00:15:09.880 We don't need to do it in person.

00:15:11.140 But the thing I want to tell you is I'm not going to let this get out of hand, but I need

00:15:15.360 some clarity.

00:15:16.280 I need to ask some questions here.

00:15:18.480 How did this start?

00:15:19.340 Because he might give you some insight that she's not going to give you.

00:15:24.700 Totally.

00:15:25.280 But you got it.

00:15:25.840 But you have to keep a level head.

00:15:26.960 Now, I know everybody's listening.

00:15:28.760 This is like, I beat his ass.

00:15:30.060 And like, oh, man, I don't know.

00:15:31.440 Whatever.

00:15:31.580 I don't think that's going to help solve the problem.

00:15:34.820 It's probably just going to make it worse.

00:15:36.400 And you're going to run into legal problems.

00:15:38.480 So I'm not, I'm not about advocating for being an idiot.

00:15:43.500 But I would, I would do that.

00:15:45.240 I'd say, hey, I need to have a conversation with you, man to man.

00:15:48.240 I need, I need some answers here.

00:15:50.620 Because that's going to give you some insight into, like you said, how it happened, how it

00:15:55.080 started, how frequently was this happening?

00:15:57.400 How long was this going on?

00:15:58.960 What behaviors were happening?

00:16:00.760 What sneaky things were going on?

00:16:03.340 That might bring some clarity to you.

00:16:05.460 Because if this was going on for two years, no, no.

00:16:11.660 If this was going, if this happened one time, me, I'm still a no.

00:16:18.980 But I can see how that would be different than something that was ongoing and long-term.

00:16:24.020 And this infidelity, indiscretion.

00:16:27.200 So I'd have that conversation.

00:16:29.400 The other conversations that you need to have are with her.

00:16:33.460 And if you decide that you want to stay with her, that you want to work it out, that she

00:16:38.400 is sufficiently humble or sorrowful or whatever it may be.

00:16:42.800 And you get to decide that, by the way.

00:16:44.420 But here's what I'm going to tell you, that if you decide to stay with her, and if you

00:16:51.160 decide to work it out, then you need to be all in on forgiving or learning to forgive.

00:16:59.040 Because if you say, hey, I want to stay and work it out, and she's going to, and I'm going

00:17:03.140 to talk about some boundaries that you need to put in place, and she works through that

00:17:06.860 stuff, you can't continue to hold it over her head forever.

00:17:12.680 Because that's what you're saying.

00:17:14.620 As long as she's doing these things, then you are going to forgive.

00:17:18.080 You're going to work on reconciliation.

00:17:20.120 You're going to work on rebuilding the marriage and the connection.

00:17:22.900 And so you can't dangle that carrot over her every time, unless she's crossing the boundaries.

00:17:28.520 In which case, you should bring that up often and frequently, if that's happening, or just

00:17:33.540 be done.

00:17:35.280 And what do you think about that, about that part specifically, Kib?

00:17:38.220 About if you say, hey, I'm going to try to reconcile, then your part in it is learning

00:17:42.000 to have to forgive.

00:17:43.600 Absolutely.

00:17:44.300 I mean, you got to be all in, and you'll be tempted to use this as a tool, right?

00:17:53.240 Right.

00:17:54.360 You know, whenever you get in a fight.

00:17:55.020 For other things.

00:17:56.100 Yeah.

00:17:56.600 Whenever you get in a fight.

00:17:57.460 Look, I'm the one who forgave you, right?

00:18:01.220 Like, you will be tempted to use this against her, and you might feel highly justified.

00:18:09.120 But to your point, Ryan, you shouldn't then be in the marriage if that's the case.

00:18:14.840 Right?

00:18:15.000 Right.

00:18:15.160 So you got to be, you know, fully aligned and not use this as a tool forever or get out.

00:18:27.460 But you can't do both.

00:18:28.860 That's unfair to some extent.

00:18:32.400 Well, it's unfair to you, even.

00:18:34.280 Yeah.

00:18:34.800 Yeah.

00:18:35.200 And in effect.

00:18:36.300 And let me say it this way, because someone might say, well, unfair, she's the one.

00:18:40.360 So let me restate that.

00:18:41.620 It's not about fairness.

00:18:43.220 It's ineffective.

00:18:44.020 It's not going to help the relationship if you hold it against her forever.

00:18:51.000 It's, well, what I, you've said this in the past, Kip.

00:18:53.660 It's a betrayal of yourself is what it is.

00:18:56.360 Yeah.

00:18:56.500 Yeah.

00:18:56.680 She deserves that level of scrutiny.

00:18:58.580 Of course she does.

00:18:59.780 But if you say, hey, I'm going to work on forgiving you, then you're not being in integrity if you don't.

00:19:07.420 Yeah.

00:19:07.660 And if you cannot stomach it and you cannot learn to forgive her, then you have to be out.

00:19:14.860 Yeah.

00:19:15.300 Because it's not fair to you to be in a relationship where you have built up contention, frustration, animosity, resentment, much of it justified, and still be in the relationship.

00:19:28.680 Now, if you decide, hey, I do want to see if we can reconcile, do want to see if we can fix this, you have to determine what those boundaries are.

00:19:37.840 I don't know what they are for you.

00:19:39.120 Maybe it's tracking where each other are at all times.

00:19:43.880 Maybe it's therapy together.

00:19:49.680 Maybe it's her checking in with you periodically throughout the day.

00:19:54.100 And, you know, I even hear people like, well, that's not fair.

00:19:55.840 She's an adult.

00:19:56.440 Yeah, she is an adult.

00:19:57.340 If she wants to be in this relationship with me, these are my terms.

00:20:00.840 And if she doesn't want to do that, then she's welcome to leave too.

00:20:04.260 See, that's the interesting thing about a relationship is that everybody gets to decide what their boundaries are.

00:20:09.420 And if neither party can agree on what the other person's boundaries are, then they don't have to be in a relationship.

00:20:16.040 It's that simple.

00:20:16.940 So if that's a hard line stance for you and she's like, well, I'm not going to do that.

00:20:22.260 I'm not a child.

00:20:23.320 Okay, then I'm out.

00:20:25.680 But if you're going to make boundaries, you can't bluff.

00:20:29.480 Like they actually have to be the real boundaries.

00:20:31.700 So before you set what those are and before you start communicating what they are with her, make sure that that's really where you're planting your flag.

00:20:40.020 Because if you say, hey, you know, I want to know where you're at during the day and she doesn't inform you or turns off tracking on her phone.

00:20:49.680 And then you're like, oh, it's okay.

00:20:51.100 That can happen once.

00:20:52.800 You're just encouraging what you tolerate.

00:20:55.400 And you're encouraging her to do it more and more and more and more.

00:20:58.680 And that's not going to be a thing that works for you.

00:21:02.240 I would also consider talking with people who you might know who have been through this scenario.

00:21:07.220 I've got a couple friends who have been cheated.

00:21:10.580 I have a couple friends who have cheated on their partner and I have a couple friends who have been cheated on.

00:21:17.220 And you might talk with the person who's been cheated on that decided to reconcile to figure out how they did it, why they did it, what was their strategy, how did it work, what were they looking for in their wife.

00:21:30.040 Because that might bring some clarity that I can't personally offer.

00:21:34.040 Yeah, it's tough.

00:21:35.260 You know, there's another element up here, Dalton, that I would consider is why.

00:21:41.800 Like, you got to address the why.

00:21:47.080 Yeah, good point.

00:21:48.240 You got to figure out why she did this.

00:21:53.360 And until then, you're not really addressing any issue, right?

00:21:57.680 Like, you might be tempted, like, oh, she feels bad.

00:21:59.940 Back to, you know, the status quo of how her marriage was.

00:22:03.960 Well, guess what the probability is?

00:22:06.720 Probability is it's going to happen again.

00:22:08.660 Why?

00:22:08.900 Because you never address the issue.

00:22:10.720 What's the issue?

00:22:12.980 And I'm not saying the issue might be you.

00:22:15.920 The issue might be if she is highly insecure and she needs constant validation from external men and enough validation from you is not enough.

00:22:24.520 And thus, she's going to constantly keep cheating on you.

00:22:27.340 You should probably know that.

00:22:28.280 Or, you know, what are you doing or what are you not doing in your guys' marriage where you guys are not aligned, where she's not excited about being with you?

00:22:40.320 And if you don't address that, the probability of it ever working in the event that you choose to make it work or try to make it work is really, really low.

00:22:49.960 Yeah, I think, yeah.

00:22:50.520 And this is so, because, oh, God, sorry, Kip, I thought you were done.

00:22:53.680 No, no, no, that's all I was going to say.

00:22:55.300 I just, you got to, you got to identify the issue.

00:22:58.280 I agree with that, but where I take a little bit of issue, and I don't even think you're saying this, but I think it could be interpreted this way, is let's say that he has a conversation with his wife and they're trying to figure out why.

00:23:13.520 And she says, well, I haven't been happy for years.

00:23:16.180 You're distracted with work and you've, you know, let go of your fitness a little bit in some ways and I'm just not, I'm not happy.

00:23:25.140 And so, you know, I, I found this validation somewhere else or what I was like, whatever, whatever.

00:23:30.260 It's not Dalton's problem that she cheated.

00:23:33.120 Well, it is his problem.

00:23:34.480 It's not his fault that she cheated.

00:23:37.040 Like, it doesn't matter.

00:23:40.060 Don't do that either.

00:23:40.860 It doesn't matter.

00:23:41.440 Even, even if you physically abused her, it doesn't give her permission to cheat.

00:23:47.560 It doesn't give you permission to physically abuse her, but people's behavior is their own, independent of yours.

00:23:55.140 She can choose.

00:23:56.260 And if you were an abusive partner, by the way, I'm not saying that you are, but if you were, then her course of action should be to leave you, not to cheat on you and stay with you.

00:24:06.400 So people can choose their own behavior and I would just be really careful of falling into the trap of her saying, well, you know, if only you did this better and only you did that better and only this.

00:24:20.120 And if you change this then, and you've changed that, and all of a sudden her indiscretion becomes your responsibility.

00:24:29.880 Yeah.

00:24:30.380 They're two separate things.

00:24:31.940 You should work on yourself at all times, regardless of your relationship status.

00:24:39.260 And also she should be able to explain why she did that and how she's not going to do it again.

00:24:45.500 Yeah, yeah.

00:24:46.420 And that's what I was kind of getting to is like, this isn't, you know, she can ask things of you, right?

00:24:53.600 But in the end, she has to get super clear on what was the root cause for her, agnostic, right?

00:25:00.760 Like, what is she, and what is she going to do different?

00:25:04.380 And it can't just be what you're doing.

00:25:06.280 Yeah, absolutely.

00:25:07.480 Right.

00:25:08.300 Yeah.

00:25:08.640 A friend of mine, Keith Yackey, he runs a program called The Married Game, and he comes to mind immediately as I hear this, is you got to work on yourself for yourself.

00:25:19.900 Yeah.

00:25:20.420 Because if you're working on yourself for other people, guess what?

00:25:24.100 People are still going to cheat.

00:25:25.740 They're still going to leave you.

00:25:27.300 They're still going to make bad decisions.

00:25:29.220 They're still going to mess up.

00:25:30.740 They're still going to say dumb things.

00:25:32.160 And if your performance is contingent on their behavior, you're going to be sorely disappointed in your life because you just will not perform to the degree you're capable of.

00:25:42.960 Because guess what?

00:25:44.540 Nobody's going to come and tell you good job for getting in shape.

00:25:48.180 Nobody's going to come tell you good job for paying off debt.

00:25:51.520 Nobody's going to come tell you good job for, you know, leading the family better.

00:25:55.400 Do it because it's the right thing to do, because it's what makes you feel good, and because it's what you think a man ought to be doing and how he should show up.

00:26:04.840 And then you can just let the chips fall where they may.

00:26:06.920 And if anybody acknowledges you, great.

00:26:09.300 You don't need it, but it feels good.

00:26:11.060 If they don't acknowledge you, doesn't matter.

00:26:13.100 You weren't after that anyways.

00:26:17.520 All right.

00:26:19.700 Anonymous.

00:26:19.940 I have a very difficult time with my wife and most of her decisions, which mainly stems from chemical dependency on alcohol that started around two years ago when we got married.

00:26:33.480 We dated for about five years before this, and there was no indication that it would happen.

00:26:38.520 I have a lot of difficulty with her because of almost everything she does is clearly unhealthy, and it creates a rough environment at home.

00:26:45.240 I'm in a place that I would love kids, and it's a great time in my life to go forward with that, but I don't have any confidence in her to be a good mother.

00:26:54.240 I've done well taking care of myself during this time, but it's hard to say this.

00:26:59.020 She's holding me back quite a bit from making even more of an impact, and the impact I make on her feels negligible and pointless.

00:27:07.980 There's always more that I can do, but I feel like I've tried just about everything to lead her to a living better, and she just hasn't picked it up.

00:27:17.500 I want to do a separation to create some space and clarity, and it may also lead to me not wanting to come back to the relationship.

00:27:24.920 Do you feel that mindset is off?

00:27:27.060 Do you feel like a separation is a good option in my circumstance?

00:27:30.260 What questions should I be asking myself and her leading up to this separation, and what questions should I ask myself during the separation?

00:27:40.000 Yeah, man, this is so hard.

00:27:43.620 I've actually talked with three people in the past couple of weeks that are in a very similar situation, alcohol abuse on the part of their wife, which is not as common as the part of the husband.

00:27:58.780 You know, I dealt with my own alcohol abuse issues, and so that's more common than a wife having addiction problems, which is interesting.

00:28:10.500 I think what I'm not typically a huge fan of separations.

00:28:15.440 You know, if you're married to her, you're in it.

00:28:18.200 That's how I look at it.

00:28:19.180 You're in it or you're not.

00:28:20.100 This whole thing of, like, I need space to think or whatever.

00:28:23.100 To find myself.

00:28:23.640 I don't, I don't really, I don't, I don't buy in it, like, find yourself when you're in the relationship, because that's what you said you would do.

00:28:30.400 Yeah.

00:28:31.240 And, and if you can't, if it's that hard, I mean, look, I'm not telling you not to have a separation, but what I would say is that if you're planning on separating, that you have some, some things in place.

00:28:42.780 Like, hey, we're going to separate for the next 30 days or 90 days or whatever it is, and this is what I need to see happen.

00:28:52.300 This is what I need out of the relationship.

00:28:54.980 I would be careful of saying, you need to change.

00:28:57.060 You need to do this.

00:28:57.920 You need to do that.

00:28:59.060 You aren't doing this.

00:29:00.120 You aren't a good mother or won't be a good mother.

00:29:01.980 I would say, hey, what I need out of the relationship is I need a woman who I feel like I can have children with and will be able to take care of the children in these ways.

00:29:13.980 What I need is somebody who's healthy, who will support me and stand by me and be in the mental headspace to encourage me.

00:29:22.540 What I need, and you list all of the things that you need.

00:29:26.000 I don't know if this is the case for you, but I think what happens a lot of the times is that women, when women are unhappy in relationships, they dance around it a little bit.

00:29:36.500 They won't just come out typically and say, hey, I'm not happy with the way you're showing up and you need to change in these three to five ways or I'm out.

00:29:45.540 I think if more women did that, more marriages would be saved.

00:29:49.420 I really do because I think guys do want to generally be better in the relationship.

00:29:54.640 I don't think they want to lose their relationships, but sometimes we just don't know the severity of the way she might be feeling because she's not clobbering us over the head with a two before and telling us to be better.

00:30:05.940 Self-awareness.

00:30:08.040 Right, yeah, self-awareness, yeah.

00:30:09.600 Yeah.

00:30:10.220 I would wonder if you've done the same thing with her or if you've danced around it because it's an uncomfortable conversation where you're like, hey, babe, I'd really like you to be better.

00:30:19.280 Or, hey, you know, it'd mean a lot to me if you didn't drink so much on weekdays.

00:30:23.820 Or, hey, maybe can we limit our drinks to the weekends or one night a week or limit it to two drinks or whatever, whatever your rule is.

00:30:31.200 But you just do it so softly and subtly that it doesn't really seem like there's much consequence to doing it.

00:30:39.760 You know, that's what happened with me is my ex-wife would – and I'm not blaming this on her.

00:30:44.620 My decisions are my decisions, so please understand this, guys, just like hers are hers.

00:30:49.580 But she would say, I'm really worried about your drinking.

00:30:53.960 I don't really know what that means.

00:30:57.300 To me, I'm like, well, cool, don't worry.

00:30:58.780 It's okay.

00:30:59.660 There you go.

00:31:00.540 Problem solved.

00:31:01.480 Yeah, fix your worry.

00:31:03.700 Do you know what I'm saying?

00:31:04.920 Yeah, yeah, totally.

00:31:06.360 You just need to be – if you haven't done this already, I would say first be more clear.

00:31:10.820 And clarity might be, hey, I need this in my life, and if you can't be that for me, then I'm going to leave.

00:31:18.320 Yeah.

00:31:19.740 And I'm not going to have children with you.

00:31:22.780 Make it about you.

00:31:23.840 I'm not going to pursue this relationship in any meaningful way if I can't get this from the person that I want to be in a relationship with.

00:31:30.940 So this is me right now telling you that I would like you to be sober for the next 30 days.

00:31:39.420 I'd like you to join AA locally, and I'd like to have you consider getting therapy.

00:31:46.520 If you're willing to do that, then let's see where we're at after 30 days.

00:31:51.100 No separation, no divorce.

00:31:52.480 Let's just see where we're at after 30 days.

00:31:54.460 And after 30 days, if you're clean, you're going to your meetings, you're having therapy sessions, and I feel like progress is being made in that department,

00:32:02.740 then I really want to be able to sit down and evaluate where we go from here.

00:32:07.420 But I would just take a very hard line stance before you did anything else.

00:32:12.420 Because what I don't want to have happen is I don't want you to bail on the relationship, and then in the next year or two years or five years, have the nagging thought in your head,

00:32:24.600 you know what, I love that woman's shit.

00:32:27.320 If I only would have done this, if I would have said that, maybe I could have been a little more strict or a little harsher or a little harder on the hard line stance,

00:32:37.200 and maybe that would have, I don't want you to have that.

00:32:39.500 I want the moment that if and when you leave, it's like, no, I gave her every chance, every opportunity.

00:32:48.100 She knew exactly how I felt.

00:32:49.420 I told her what my boundaries were, and still she chose differently, and therefore I had to leave.

00:32:55.520 And I want you to be so convicted about that choice before you decide to step out of it.

00:33:00.140 Well, and I feel like, let me, not to take away from anything that Ryan said,

00:33:05.060 let me just give like other, I don't know, additions to the, to the conversation.

00:33:11.480 Alignment, right?

00:33:13.480 Like there's an element of boundary, absolutely, where you say, hey, this is acceptable.

00:33:17.800 But even ask the question, where do you want this to go?

00:33:23.300 Do you want to have kids?

00:33:25.940 Like what, what, what's your plan?

00:33:28.780 Right?

00:33:29.160 Or do you just want to party and, and be single, right?

00:33:32.160 She might be like, hey, you know, I have zero plans to have children, right?

00:33:36.300 I don't want to have children.

00:33:37.420 I love the life that we're living.

00:33:38.920 I love partying.

00:33:39.860 I'm, I have no desire to give up alcohol.

00:33:42.460 Okay, got it.

00:33:43.340 We're out of alignment.

00:33:44.980 Like, this is like, just, this just won't work.

00:33:47.120 You can try all you want, but it's not even what she wants.

00:33:50.200 So, so as part of establishing your boundary and communicating what you want, get clear

00:33:57.520 on what she wants.

00:33:58.900 What does she really want?

00:34:00.960 And if it's not the same thing as you, then that in enough isn't, I mean, that's enough.

00:34:06.540 What are you going to do?

00:34:07.620 Force her, change her, course her.

00:34:10.200 Well, if you don't do this, blah, blah, blah.

00:34:11.960 No, she doesn't want it.

00:34:14.380 And if she doesn't want the same thing, then it's never going to work anyway.

00:34:17.060 She might even do all those things that you might ask her out of fear and uncertainty,

00:34:22.540 and then hold it against you that she made all these changes, but it's still not what

00:34:27.040 she's seeking for.

00:34:28.720 So get really clear.

00:34:30.480 What is it that she wants out of the relationship and the marriage?

00:34:33.840 And you may come to find out that it's not what you want.

00:34:37.720 And then you're good to go.

00:34:38.720 Now, if she says, no, no, no, I want the same thing as you.

00:34:41.400 Then you go, okay, got it.

00:34:43.240 This is what I need.

00:34:44.520 Here's the boundaries, right?

00:34:45.960 This is what I'm expecting.

00:34:47.240 What do you need from me, right?

00:34:48.620 And then you have an alignment conversation and get on the same page.

00:34:52.160 But I would inject that, get clear on what her outcomes and what her desired outcomes

00:34:57.260 are of the relationship, because you might find out that you guys aren't even on the

00:35:01.240 same page.

00:35:02.440 And I'm in huge agreement with you, Ryan.

00:35:06.080 It's crazy.

00:35:07.180 In fact, I had lunch with a good friend just a couple weeks ago.

00:35:10.620 He came to me probably about a year ago with a very similar situation.

00:35:15.220 And he said, yeah, I think we're going to get separated.

00:35:17.760 I don't know what to do or whatever.

00:35:18.980 And my advice to him was, it's hot or cold.

00:35:23.140 You're all in.

00:35:24.120 You figure it out.

00:35:24.900 You make it work or you leave.

00:35:26.740 But don't drag this sucker out.

00:35:29.880 Year later.

00:35:30.960 I agree.

00:35:31.660 They're dragged out.

00:35:32.640 He has a woman living in his house.

00:35:34.620 She's stepping out on him almost every other night, partying, whatever, leaving him with

00:35:39.720 the kids while he's trying to work and maintain a home and be kind of the equivalent of a mother

00:35:45.700 to his children while she's just stepping all over him because he didn't have the hard

00:35:51.180 stance conversation of like, this is not going to work for me.

00:35:54.780 And so she's having her cake and eat it too.

00:35:57.500 So be careful.

00:35:59.660 Be careful.

00:36:00.260 I mean, I would get to brass tacks, right?

00:36:04.540 And address the issue, deal in reality.

00:36:06.700 Don't drag things out.

00:36:09.520 You know, I had another thought on this, Kip.

00:36:11.180 Have you ever had anybody in your life who was exceptionally hard on you, or at least

00:36:16.580 in the moment you had, you interpret it as being hard.

00:36:19.940 And then with a little time and a little perspective, you realized, holy shit, that person actually

00:36:26.180 loved me more than other people who didn't bring anything up.

00:36:28.860 Totally.

00:36:30.720 And I wonder if this could be potentially one of those moments.

00:36:34.760 You know, it could be a moment where the relationship's over, but it also could be a moment where you

00:36:39.900 have this real conversation and let's just fast forward five years, eight years, 10 years.

00:36:45.960 I don't want to give you unnecessary hope, but let's just imagine a scenario where she

00:36:49.720 decided, you know what?

00:36:50.940 You are more important to me.

00:36:53.220 And this is, this relationship is more important than drinking.

00:36:57.280 And so I'm going to make those changes.

00:36:59.860 And then she looks at you and she says, thank you for being a man.

00:37:03.900 Really like, thank you for leading.

00:37:05.960 Thank you for telling me what your boundaries were.

00:37:08.320 Thank you for bringing structure to this relationship.

00:37:12.100 Thanks for holding me to account.

00:37:14.960 That's just as likely as a scenario as anything else that might happen, but there's no downside

00:37:20.760 to doing that.

00:37:22.320 Well, the only downside is you might lose the relationship, but you're already losing the

00:37:27.180 relationship.

00:37:27.680 So it's not this that's making the relationship go sour.

00:37:31.340 It's what's already happened.

00:37:32.460 So I just think these hardline conversations, and the reason I think most people don't have

00:37:37.300 these conversations is not because it's uncomfortable for the other person, but because it's uncomfortable

00:37:42.280 for the person having the conversation, right?

00:37:44.780 I don't want to feel weird.

00:37:46.580 I don't want to feel awkward.

00:37:48.180 I don't want to feel this way.

00:37:49.340 And so therefore I'm not going to have the conversation.

00:37:52.460 That has nothing to do with your care for another person and everything to do with the

00:37:56.900 care you have for yourself.

00:37:58.120 Yeah, and there's a level of service on this exit, right?

00:38:02.420 Like if this ends up being the end of the relationship, if handled well, you are giving

00:38:10.700 her some insights in regards for her to consider for herself for future change, you know, and

00:38:21.900 it'll create an opportunity for her, whether she'll use it or not, who knows, but it's kind

00:38:26.360 of the right thing to do, right?

00:38:27.640 As, as you're talking, Ryan, as I think through this, it's like, what's the right thing to

00:38:32.200 do and do that and let the chips fall.

00:38:36.920 And, and you're going to be in a better situation if it ends, like you're going to find out,

00:38:40.720 Hey, I have boundaries.

00:38:41.760 I I'm a man of, of my word.

00:38:43.440 I'm a man of integrity.

00:38:44.320 I have boundaries.

00:38:44.780 And I'll, I'll say this is the last thing.

00:38:46.740 And I know it sounds like I'm joking.

00:38:48.260 I'm not.

00:38:48.880 Do not get her pregnant.

00:38:51.500 Absolutely.

00:38:51.860 Like whatever you do, do not get her pregnant and I'll leave it there.

00:38:57.140 And I'm not, I'm not, I'm not making a mockery of that.

00:39:00.880 I'm not joking.

00:39:01.680 I'm telling you seriously, do not get her pregnant.

00:39:04.340 Get this stuff figured out first.

00:39:06.640 Absolutely.

00:39:08.020 Yep.

00:39:09.060 Totally agree.

00:39:10.500 All right.

00:39:10.880 Bam Lundy.

00:39:12.280 How do you know it's time for your son to have a rite of passage?

00:39:18.740 Because you asked the question.

00:39:20.060 He's a, you're up.

00:39:22.780 It's time.

00:39:23.460 Let's go, Bam.

00:39:24.200 It's time, man.

00:39:24.980 Dude.

00:39:25.260 You're thinking about it.

00:39:26.040 Well, look, I think sometimes when we think of quote unquote rites of passages, we think

00:39:30.180 about these grand, elaborate, scheming exercises.

00:39:35.040 And sure, there should be some of that.

00:39:37.740 But I think there's a lot of different moments for rites of passage.

00:39:41.080 For example, the first time one of your sons or daughters plays a sport, that's a rite of passage.

00:39:48.680 Now they're on a team.

00:39:50.060 They're learning.

00:39:51.260 There's sacrifice involved.

00:39:53.460 There's risk involved.

00:39:55.940 There's development of skills.

00:39:58.860 There's an acknowledgement of growth.

00:40:01.500 All of the elements that go into a quote unquote rite of passage would apply to your son or daughter

00:40:07.080 being on their first sports team.

00:40:09.720 And that might happen at, what, six years old?

00:40:12.020 Five, six years old?

00:40:13.320 So that's definitely rite of passage.

00:40:15.460 First time they win a game.

00:40:18.140 First time they ride their bike.

00:40:20.520 First time they eat all of their vegetables at dinner.

00:40:23.520 Like, these are all rites of passage in a way that you can honor and celebrate and acknowledge.

00:40:29.540 And I think if you do that, then it no longer becomes about the rite of passage, but a series of rites of passages.

00:40:38.320 And I think that's what we should focus on.

00:40:40.720 I think eight years old was really crucial for my boys.

00:40:46.340 Eight, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18.

00:40:49.720 Those were the years that I was really specific about what I do for those years.

00:40:55.120 But, yeah, you should be looking at your child's entire life as a rite of passage.

00:41:00.360 And you should be honoring and celebrating their achievements if they've hit those milestones.

00:41:05.840 Yeah.

00:41:06.560 Love it.

00:41:07.640 All right, Joseph.

00:41:08.980 Can I say, was there a question, though, Kip, about, like, what should be included in a rite of passage?

00:41:13.880 Was something like that included?

00:41:15.240 You're right.

00:41:15.640 You're right.

00:41:16.000 He commented to his post and said, ideas.

00:41:19.640 Oh, okay.

00:41:20.100 Yeah.

00:41:20.380 Rite of passage ideas.

00:41:22.300 Does he say how old?

00:41:24.240 He doesn't.

00:41:25.120 His son, does he say?

00:41:26.060 Okay.

00:41:26.380 Yeah.

00:41:26.980 Well, camping trips are always really good.

00:41:31.220 A hunt, something like that, where he could be with the boy.

00:41:34.280 I'm assuming it is his son, right?

00:41:35.900 He said his son.

00:41:36.780 Yeah, he said son.

00:41:37.540 Yeah.

00:41:38.600 Something where he could be with the men.

00:41:40.100 Think about what your traditional historic rites of passages were.

00:41:43.900 The boys were quite literally taken from their mothers when this time happened.

00:41:52.120 So they were taken from their mothers.

00:41:53.680 They were taken from the village.

00:41:56.020 They were with the men.

00:41:58.180 Okay.

00:41:58.340 And then they went out and they completed an exercise or a series of exercises that was challenging enough that would really push the young men, but not challenging enough where they wouldn't be able to accomplish it.

00:42:09.500 But there was a very real risk of, in many of these situations, their young sons dying.

00:42:17.440 I'm not saying it should be that difficult, but I'm just showing you what is involved.

00:42:21.300 Risk is involved.

00:42:22.240 And they would go and they would be tasked with completing it, but they wouldn't be thrown to the wolves.

00:42:27.420 They would be taught the skill sets they needed to be able to complete the rite of passage.

00:42:31.740 So teaching the skill sets and then it's the test.

00:42:34.280 So they'd go do the test.

00:42:35.420 If the boy came back successfully, let's say he killed the saber-toothed tiger or he stole the egg out of the bald eagle's nest and he came back and he did it.

00:42:49.100 He was then welcomed with a seat at the table with the men.

00:42:54.140 You are now one of us.

00:42:56.120 And he was now called a man.

00:42:58.320 And then he was marked.

00:43:00.280 Maybe he was circumcised.

00:43:02.120 Maybe there was tattooing, branding, but there was a physical mark of the fact that he had transitioned from boy to man.

00:43:12.200 And only then was he then welcomed back to the village where he could see his mother as a man, not a boy.

00:43:21.040 So that's what should be included in a rite of passage.

00:43:24.400 A little bit more loosely because we're a little more civilized maybe than we used to be.

00:43:28.420 But what are they?

00:43:30.380 Teaching a skill set.

00:43:32.200 Taking them from their mother.

00:43:33.920 So camp out.

00:43:35.300 A trip like that.

00:43:36.100 An excursion with just the men.

00:43:38.140 No women involved in this.

00:43:39.800 The test.

00:43:42.520 So you need to hunt successfully or you need to catch a fish or you need to answer these questions the correct way.

00:43:51.220 You need to be able to teach me how to shoot a firearm correctly.

00:43:54.440 Teach me the four firearm safety rules.

00:43:56.900 Successfully complete this course that I put together for you.

00:44:00.080 And then, so there has to be that, an element of sacrifice and risk.

00:44:03.700 Because there is, if you're doing something dangerous, there's a risk involved.

00:44:06.720 And then you have to acknowledge that with a ceremony.

00:44:09.800 And that ceremony doesn't have to be this big, huge, ritualistic thing.

00:44:13.700 It could just be at the campfire that night.

00:44:16.040 All the men sit around because you've got like four, let's say you have four men.

00:44:20.260 And they all have their boys with them.

00:44:22.140 And all four men talk with the boys about what they've accomplished, what they've done, what it means to be a man, how they're on that path.

00:44:29.580 And then maybe even saying something really affirming about their sons because they've completed it.

00:44:35.320 And then there might be a little memento.

00:44:38.200 And that's the acknowledgement, the scarring or the tattoo.

00:44:41.500 I'm not saying that, but it might be just a little memento.

00:44:44.580 Yeah.

00:44:44.860 Maybe it's a knife or their first firearm that they earned with what they shot.

00:44:49.060 This is yours now.

00:44:50.480 Here, this is how you remember this moment.

00:44:52.620 And only then do they come back.

00:44:54.340 I would also say there should be some level of secrecy.

00:45:00.180 Not, I don't really quite know how to word this, but there should be a motto maybe like, hey, son, I'm going to teach you a motto that only we know.

00:45:08.420 Yeah.

00:45:09.200 We don't share this motto outside of our bond.

00:45:12.340 Makes it sacred.

00:45:13.400 And it is sacred.

00:45:15.240 It's like the women don't know about this.

00:45:17.240 The mom doesn't know about this.

00:45:19.620 She knows all the things that we did.

00:45:20.820 We don't have to hide things from her.

00:45:22.260 But this phrase or this little thing, this is ours between you and me.

00:45:26.860 And I think things like that are pretty meaningful and significant.

00:45:29.380 And you can do that at any stage, whether they're eight or 18.

00:45:32.140 It's just more complex when they're 18 relative to when they're eight.

00:45:35.220 Yeah.

00:45:36.020 I love it.

00:45:37.240 I'm thinking like 16, you know, Bam's like, all right, he's 16.

00:45:40.760 I want to see a drift, a 360 drift, you know, pulling the e-brake.

00:45:46.880 And then you get the car.

00:45:48.160 Let's joke.

00:45:48.880 That's right.

00:45:49.480 Exactly.

00:45:49.720 Modern version.

00:45:50.900 Yeah.

00:45:51.080 All right.

00:45:53.300 Joseph Dowdy, how would you handle teenage children who expect to be given everything

00:45:58.740 and work for nothing?

00:46:01.160 Specifically, if you and your wife have taught them right and expect chores and grades to

00:46:05.560 be maintained, but the teens eventually bought into completely to the me mindset.

00:46:15.660 I will answer that.

00:46:16.760 I just wanted to share one thing real quick.

00:46:18.580 If you just go to orderofman.com and type in rite of passage, I did a podcast specifically

00:46:24.160 on rites of passage that need to be included.

00:46:26.460 It was exclusive, involvement, challenging, instruction, proof, follow-up.

00:46:32.720 By the way, we used to get this question all the time.

00:46:36.360 We haven't gotten a rites of passage question for like probably over a year.

00:46:40.680 But remember that?

00:46:41.260 It seems like every other question is like rites of passage all the time.

00:46:44.640 It's interesting.

00:46:45.520 Yeah.

00:46:46.800 Maybe I'll do another Friday field notes and update that because it is one that we get

00:46:53.420 all the time.

00:46:54.520 I'm going to write this down.

00:46:55.580 Okay, so the best thing that you can do with a child who is involved in that me selfishness

00:47:05.320 is just take away things gradually that you've been giving them until they figure it out.

00:47:11.040 Yeah.

00:47:12.640 That's it.

00:47:13.700 Or give and give them responsibility.

00:47:15.700 So I don't know how old the kids are.

00:47:17.520 He doesn't say how old they are, does he?

00:47:18.660 No, but he kind of, you know, we raised them good.

00:47:22.200 Now they're teens, right?

00:47:23.760 So now they're kind of in their teenage years.

00:47:27.060 They're focused on.

00:47:28.060 So they're probably still at home, right?

00:47:29.500 18, 19 at the most.

00:47:31.160 So they might still be at home.

00:47:32.360 So in that case, charge them rent.

00:47:35.680 Like if they're 18 years old, charge them rent.

00:47:38.440 Hey guys, starting January 1st, I just want you to know rent's $200 a month.

00:47:46.660 Oh, that's not fair.

00:47:47.660 Yeah, it's fair.

00:47:50.180 You're 18 years old.

00:47:52.520 You aren't out working.

00:47:54.920 You aren't going to school.

00:47:56.420 Like it's fair.

00:47:57.600 Like it's time for you to learn how to contribute to the household if you're going to be part of this household.

00:48:03.120 Well, then we're just going to move out.

00:48:04.660 Cool.

00:48:05.440 That's what I wanted you to do to go live your life.

00:48:09.600 Yeah, so start charging them rent.

00:48:11.640 Give them a little time.

00:48:12.460 You don't need to be a dick and just be like, yeah, today you owe me three.

00:48:15.760 Like give them time.

00:48:16.320 Set the expectation.

00:48:17.280 Yep.

00:48:17.960 Right.

00:48:19.200 Or, and also give them a chance to like do something else if they're to the level where they can get out of the house.

00:48:26.060 If they're still at home, you can't have them charge rent or charge rent.

00:48:29.380 But what you might be able to do is say, hey, you know what?

00:48:32.760 If you don't do these chores, then you don't get to participate in the family this way.

00:48:38.940 Yeah.

00:48:39.180 Like this is a family thing.

00:48:40.660 You don't get rent usage or whatever.

00:48:41.500 Yeah.

00:48:42.220 Right.

00:48:42.780 Or your phone that I pay for.

00:48:44.600 I'm not paying for your phone if you don't mow the lawn consistently and regularly.

00:48:48.140 Oh, the insurance on your car that you're driving around, the one that I bought for you or making the payments on.

00:48:54.920 Yeah.

00:48:55.500 If you don't contribute to the household in a healthy way, I'm not paying for the insurance anymore.

00:49:01.280 Or you won't be able to drive the car.

00:49:02.800 It's my car.

00:49:03.380 You won't be able to drive that car.

00:49:04.500 It's, you just have to start, there has to be consequences because the only way that human beings function and change behavior is on two things, incentives and disincentives.

00:49:17.420 When they aren't behaving the way that you want them to behave, it's because there's not enough incentive to do so or a disincentive not to do so.

00:49:26.800 So I would start pulling things away, but I'd give them the opportunity to contribute.

00:49:31.420 Hey, if you want me to pay the insurance on your car, I'll do that.

00:49:34.860 It's $200 a month.

00:49:35.820 I'll do that.

00:49:37.560 But in order for me to do that, here's your end of the bargain.

00:49:40.580 This is a contract, buddy.

00:49:43.240 And the contract is you be a good, productive, contributing member of the household.

00:49:47.100 And if you do that, then I'll pay your insurance.

00:49:50.080 But this is not a freebie at all.

00:49:53.780 I'd also have them start doing other things like dinner.

00:49:57.440 Hey, guys, you know, Wednesday and Thursday night, those are nights you don't have practice, so those are your dinner nights.

00:50:04.980 All the ingredients will be in there.

00:50:06.300 I'll even come in and cook with you.

00:50:07.700 But those are your nights to cook dinner for the family.

00:50:11.300 Give them responsibility.

00:50:14.040 That's how I do it, and that's how I would do it.

00:50:17.540 Yeah, totally.

00:50:18.960 And it goes without saying, maybe, but, you know, manage the expectation up front.

00:50:25.140 Make sure that they're aware of it.

00:50:26.440 Don't, like, get all, you know, festering, pissed off, and then you drop the hammer tonight at 6 p.m.

00:50:33.000 You know, you kids need to do this stuff.

00:50:34.560 It's like, come up with a plan.

00:50:36.600 Communicate it appropriately.

00:50:37.720 Set the expectation.

00:50:38.660 And then you got to, you know, don't back down, right?

00:50:44.180 You got to be a man of your word and ensure that you follow through, right?

00:50:50.160 And that's the tough part because they'll get pissed off, and then you might have a tendency to blur the lines.

00:50:56.660 And also, Joseph, make sure that you're enrolling your wife, that you guys are aligned.

00:51:00.320 You're on the same page of what this looks like.

00:51:02.120 You know, don't go implementing new processes without her input, so just be mindful of that.

00:51:10.400 That's a good call.

00:51:11.260 Yeah, I mean, even my youngest son, who's eight years old, excuse me, nine years old, he, so he likes Pokemon and Legos.

00:51:19.400 So if we go to the Walmart to get something, he's like, can I get some Pokemon cards?

00:51:22.900 I'm like, yeah, sure.

00:51:23.700 Do you have any money?

00:51:25.440 No.

00:51:25.980 I'm like, well, how are you going to buy Pokemon cards?

00:51:27.740 He's like, will you get them for me?

00:51:28.780 I'm like, no.

00:51:29.120 And you know what he says to me?

00:51:31.800 I know when he wants Pokemon cards.

00:51:33.700 You know what he says to me?

00:51:35.160 Hey, Dad, can I go work in the store and earn some money for shipping store orders?

00:51:39.940 Because he knows if you want extra things, you have to buy them.

00:51:44.280 I'm not buying you Pokemon.

00:51:45.560 I don't even like Pokemon.

00:51:47.600 I'm not buying.

00:51:48.320 Legos, I'd be tempted just because I like building Lego with my son.

00:51:51.220 But if it's something ridiculous, I'm not interested, right?

00:51:54.760 So if you want them, you're going to have to earn them.

00:51:58.780 And he already knows that at nine years old.

00:52:01.180 Yep.

00:52:01.400 And he'll also say, hey, Dad, can I buy this thing?

00:52:05.040 This pack of cards is $5.

00:52:06.720 Do you have $5?

00:52:07.520 He's like, no, but can I work tonight?

00:52:08.720 Yeah, you can work tonight and come back tomorrow and buy them.

00:52:11.620 You're not buying Pokemon cards on credit with me.

00:52:14.700 But these are principles that we need to teach our kids because if we don't teach them, then they're going to get out into the world and they're going to be so far behind, so hamstringed, and they're going to make really bad decisions.

00:52:27.980 It is not in their best interest long term for us to coddle and play it safe and comfortable with our kids.

00:52:35.740 And it's really hard because we are more prosperous than we've ever been throughout human history.

00:52:42.780 So is buying a $5 pack of Pokemon cards a big deal for me?

00:52:47.640 No, it's not.

00:52:48.980 I could buy those cards, sure.

00:52:51.180 But that doesn't serve my kid.

00:52:53.840 And that's what I'm interested in.

00:52:56.360 Totally.

00:52:57.000 Delayed gratification, work ethic, right?

00:53:00.400 You got to drive those.

00:53:03.500 And by the way, it's easier not to do any of those.

00:53:07.100 It's easier not to force them to work.

00:53:09.880 It's easier not to have delayed gratifications.

00:53:12.100 It's easier to give them handouts.

00:53:15.020 But it's not what's best for them.

00:53:18.860 My final advice on this is just remember this.

00:53:23.300 I think you're probably doing a good job because you're aware of it already.

00:53:26.500 So I think you're probably already thinking of it.

00:53:28.520 You're just trying to push it over the edge a little bit to make it stick.

00:53:32.160 Just remember this if you remember nothing else.

00:53:34.120 How can I incentivize them to work hard?

00:53:38.980 And how can I disincentivize them to be lazy?

00:53:44.060 If you can be creative in filling those two things,

00:53:47.640 you'll start to see a little bit more forward momentum from them, I believe.

00:53:54.060 Yeah, I love it.

00:53:55.240 All right, last question from Steve Terrell.

00:54:00.180 What advice would you give as a teen knowing what we know now?

00:54:06.820 What advice would you give you as a teen knowing what we know now?

00:54:13.520 It's so broad.

00:54:15.100 There's so much.

00:54:16.960 Trying to whittle it down.

00:54:18.320 You know, I think one thing I wish I would have done as a teen is,

00:54:24.360 and maybe even older than that, like into my early 20s,

00:54:28.660 is just try to do everything.

00:54:32.400 As long as it was legal, moral, and ethical,

00:54:34.760 just I would have done so many more things.

00:54:37.620 Yeah, because when you're 20, it's like,

00:54:39.080 oh, Ryan said I could try everything.

00:54:41.080 No.

00:54:41.420 Not everything.

00:54:43.800 Within parameters.

00:54:46.240 And like occasionally, you know, if my daughter,

00:54:50.580 maybe she's done some work around the house,

00:54:53.640 and she has $10 to spend,

00:54:55.260 she'll want to go to the Dollar Tree store,

00:54:58.420 which I hate.

00:54:59.260 I hate that store.

00:55:00.560 But she loves it.

00:55:01.640 It's the most ridiculous store.

00:55:04.220 But she wants to go with one of her friends,

00:55:05.960 and she has $10.

00:55:06.800 And she's like, can I get whatever?

00:55:08.700 I said, can I get this thing?

00:55:10.140 And I'm like, you can get whatever you want.

00:55:11.300 It's your money.

00:55:11.700 She's like, whatever?

00:55:13.000 I'm like, okay, not whatever.

00:55:15.680 There's parameters.

00:55:17.440 And for a young man who might be listening,

00:55:19.840 I'm not telling you to do everything.

00:55:21.140 Legal, moral, ethical.

00:55:22.720 Outside of that, try everything.

00:55:25.400 If you have an opportunity to go to the Bahamas,

00:55:29.860 you should probably go to the Bahamas.

00:55:31.660 If you have an opportunity to go skydiving,

00:55:35.600 you know, go do it.

00:55:36.700 Try it.

00:55:37.080 If you have that woman that you're kind of interested in

00:55:41.580 and you want to ask her on a date,

00:55:42.640 but you don't know if you should,

00:55:43.460 you definitely should.

00:55:45.220 As much as you could do within those parameters,

00:55:49.380 I would also add dangerous.

00:55:51.980 A little danger, a little risk is good,

00:55:53.600 but if it's blatantly dangerous,

00:55:54.940 maybe don't do that either.

00:55:57.020 But outside of those parameters,

00:55:59.000 man, it's never going to be easier.

00:56:01.360 The paradox is that when you're young,

00:56:06.320 you have the freedom to do that,

00:56:08.300 but you don't have any money to do it with.

00:56:10.880 When you're older, you have the money to do it,

00:56:13.440 but you don't have the freedom to pursue it.

00:56:16.840 So it's a little bit of a paradox,

00:56:19.500 but if you figure that out, just try everything.

00:56:22.920 Yeah.

00:56:23.140 And I think you're just going to find out

00:56:26.020 a whole lot about yourself when you're younger.

00:56:29.040 And also I would say maybe one other thing is

00:56:31.980 outside of a few things,

00:56:36.800 we know that there's three very simple predictors

00:56:41.480 of financial prosperity and success in this country.

00:56:44.480 They're very simple.

00:56:46.440 It's don't have a child out of wedlock,

00:56:49.580 graduate high school, and get a job.

00:56:54.140 That's it.

00:56:56.060 So just do those three things.

00:56:58.600 Don't have a kid out of wedlock.

00:57:01.360 Make sure you graduate high school and get a job.

00:57:05.300 And if you do those three things,

00:57:06.860 you can do a lot more and really experience and enjoy life.

00:57:11.740 Just don't do anything stupid and catastrophic.

00:57:14.540 But outside of that, really enjoy life.

00:57:16.440 Take a few more risks.

00:57:17.940 Say yes to a few more things and live it up.

00:57:20.960 You know, it's interesting.

00:57:21.640 When I think about this question,

00:57:23.200 I just realized the advice I'd give myself

00:57:27.220 is the advice that I find myself giving my kids

00:57:30.240 right now all the time.

00:57:32.260 And it's probably me projecting on them of like,

00:57:34.880 ah, I wish I had this when I was younger.

00:57:37.940 So I'm probably overdoing it.

00:57:39.260 You know, if I was your age,

00:57:40.600 if I would have known this, then.

00:57:43.040 Yeah, then I would have been Uncle Rico.

00:57:46.140 Uncle Rico.

00:57:46.680 No, I think for me, it's reps, right?

00:57:51.280 I think I would have coached myself in,

00:57:56.320 hey, Kip, greatness is found in those willing to pay the price

00:58:02.300 and put in the reps.

00:58:04.500 So if you want something, you have to rep it.

00:58:07.380 And you have to rep it more than everybody else.

00:58:09.180 And it's just about the reps.

00:58:11.020 And to let go of this idea of like,

00:58:14.260 some kids are more talented or they're gifted.

00:58:17.740 And it's them versus the reps that they put in

00:58:23.440 versus those that didn't put in the reps.

00:58:25.800 Now, I know that's not 100% true.

00:58:28.120 Obviously, some people are more gifted, talented,

00:58:30.820 and, you know, have some skills.

00:58:32.720 But just being aware of that, I think,

00:58:35.460 is super critical when you're younger

00:58:36.960 because we have a tendency to see the grass, right?

00:58:39.920 See the other kids, see the other athlete.

00:58:41.800 And they're like, oh my gosh, I wish or whatever.

00:58:44.240 And it's like, oh, stop wishing.

00:58:47.200 You want it?

00:58:47.880 Then pay the price.

00:58:49.220 And it's called reps.

00:58:50.380 Start putting in the reps, right?

00:58:52.480 Anything's possible.

00:58:53.260 And I think that's foundational for me.

00:58:57.500 Maybe so much that like the little guy, right?

00:58:59.720 It's like at five years old, right?

00:59:02.280 He wants to do nightly pull-ups, push-ups,

00:59:04.940 and single-age shots, right?

00:59:07.280 Because he believes in reps.

00:59:10.120 And he wants to put in the reps.

00:59:12.460 So we'll see if it pays off, but.

00:59:15.540 Yeah.

00:59:16.480 I mean, and you know, the other thing is,

00:59:18.020 you were saying that is anything that a person has

00:59:20.540 at a young age that you look and say,

00:59:22.240 oh, that person has, they're naturally this way,

00:59:25.500 actually becomes less and less relevant the older we get.

00:59:28.260 So for example, if you see this kid and you're like,

00:59:30.720 oh man, that kid is so gifted at sports.

00:59:34.040 He's not going to play sports forever.

00:59:35.640 It becomes less relevant.

00:59:37.500 Or, you know, I see people, women and men,

00:59:42.400 who I thought when I was, you know, 16, 17,

00:59:44.920 were just a mate, like the guy,

00:59:46.980 I'm like, that guy's good looking.

00:59:48.140 He gets all the ladies.

00:59:48.980 And that woman or that girl is beautiful.

00:59:51.600 And then you see him now, you're like,

00:59:53.800 hmm, it'll look a little different than I remember.

00:59:57.400 Or even the person who's, you know, a genius

00:59:59.860 and they're so intelligent and so smart.

01:00:03.360 I was never very bright.

01:00:05.280 I mean, I was decent enough to get through high school

01:00:08.940 and get a small scholarship for a local college.

01:00:12.560 But I wasn't like a genius level,

01:00:15.960 but I know financially, economically, running a business,

01:00:18.700 I do a lot better than some of those people

01:00:20.560 who I know were significantly smarter than I ever was.

01:00:24.760 So the things that we often look at and think,

01:00:27.560 oh, well, if only I had this, when we're kids,

01:00:29.900 all of that stuff is, almost all of it is irrelevant.

01:00:34.760 It's pretty wild if you think about it.

01:00:36.360 It is really wild.

01:00:37.460 In fact, we talk about that all the time.

01:00:39.520 It's like the people that you assumed

01:00:41.580 would have been like a governor or an owner,

01:00:44.640 a CEO, some massive corporation,

01:00:46.580 they just kind of have a mediocre job.

01:00:49.380 So, you know, and it's like, whoa,

01:00:51.460 I just assumed something different, right?

01:00:54.040 Just based upon high school experiences.

01:00:56.600 Do you know why I think that is actually?

01:00:58.560 I think it's because there are certain people

01:01:02.200 that are so gifted at certain things

01:01:05.700 or have things handed to them

01:01:07.380 because of their intelligence

01:01:08.500 or their physical prowess or their good looks

01:01:10.740 that when either those go away

01:01:13.400 or they're in an arena where that doesn't really matter,

01:01:16.520 they actually have to fight for something,

01:01:18.940 but they've never really learned how to fight for anything

01:01:20.960 because they've never had to.

01:01:23.440 But you take, okay, so here's a great example.

01:01:26.820 You take somebody who's maybe not physically attractive

01:01:29.420 and it's the joke is that they better be funny

01:01:32.140 because they're not attractive.

01:01:34.220 But there's actually truth to that

01:01:36.440 because humor is attractive.

01:01:38.840 So ugly people better learn to get funny

01:01:41.920 and I'm not even making a joke of that.

01:01:43.840 Like they better learn something else

01:01:45.720 that's gonna get them in the game

01:01:47.220 because they don't have the looks, right?

01:01:50.040 Or the individual who grew up in extreme poverty,

01:01:54.520 they better figure out how to be resourceful

01:01:56.840 because if they don't learn how to be resourceful

01:01:59.380 or they don't know how to learn to communicate with people

01:02:01.680 or they don't learn how to ask for what they want,

01:02:04.500 man, they're gonna be left in the dust.

01:02:06.600 So I believe being the underdog

01:02:09.520 can actually be a very huge blessing

01:02:14.040 if you choose to look at it that way

01:02:16.420 because you're gonna have to develop a skillset

01:02:18.080 that the other person won't have to.

01:02:23.040 Yeah, it's the forge, right?

01:02:24.980 It's the forge that sharpens us.

01:02:27.260 Yeah, it's fascinating to me.

01:02:29.620 Well, we have a couple of calls to action.

01:02:31.880 You know, man, I'll be honest, man,

01:02:34.800 reading these questions when you first started off today,

01:02:37.020 I was like, ooh, this is heavy stuff, man.

01:02:39.420 It's super heavy stuff.

01:02:41.840 And just kind of maybe, I don't know,

01:02:44.200 I just feel inclined to say, you know,

01:02:47.600 keep your head up, right?

01:02:49.340 I mean, we're kind of wrapping this up

01:02:51.500 with this idea of like these difficulties and challenges.

01:02:54.740 They're the things that forge us.

01:02:56.620 They're the things that ultimately help us

01:03:00.660 to become a better version of ourselves.

01:03:02.400 I know that sounds odd to say for some of these guys

01:03:05.520 that are just in the middle of it,

01:03:06.960 but use it to catapult yourself

01:03:09.600 into a better version of yourself

01:03:11.180 so you can serve other people in a more powerful way.

01:03:16.460 I mean, and I really do believe that.

01:03:18.200 I think Ryan, both of us can look at our past

01:03:20.500 and say it was some of the hardest times

01:03:22.600 that really catapulted us

01:03:25.140 into being a better version of ourselves.

01:03:27.640 And that's just kind of how it works.

01:03:30.820 And so, you know, I know it's difficult,

01:03:32.500 but hopefully these guys maintain a positive attitude

01:03:34.940 and look for opportunity for growth.

01:03:37.940 Well, and I think, Kip,

01:03:39.260 and you're alluding to this as well,

01:03:40.440 is you just have a choice to make.

01:03:42.620 You know, like you're gonna deal in relationship hardship.

01:03:47.160 You're gonna deal in financial hardship.

01:03:48.540 You're gonna deal in medical illnesses.

01:03:50.520 You're gonna lose loved ones.

01:03:52.280 Like life's hard.

01:03:53.360 It is.

01:03:53.860 It's hard for everybody.

01:03:55.700 And I've seen some people come out of the other side

01:03:58.400 with just some amazing results and success

01:04:01.780 across various metrics and aspects of their lives.

01:04:04.400 But after talking with 560 highly successful people

01:04:09.100 on the podcast through the interviews that we've done,

01:04:11.240 I know that all of them would say,

01:04:13.580 I chose to do it differently.

01:04:15.980 I chose to learn a lesson.

01:04:17.880 I chose to try something different.

01:04:20.540 I chose to develop this skillset.

01:04:22.180 I chose to fill in the blank.

01:04:24.180 And it's the choices that they've made

01:04:25.720 that have got them through the hardest times

01:04:27.460 they've dealt with.

01:04:29.300 And you have that choice too.

01:04:30.320 Like everybody says,

01:04:31.080 well, if only I didn't have this thing.

01:04:32.660 Well, that's not true.

01:04:34.180 Those people who have just tremendous adversity

01:04:37.460 are the ones who often come out ahead of everybody else

01:04:40.380 who may, like we were talking about earlier,

01:04:41.760 who may not have those things at all.

01:04:43.720 Totally.

01:04:44.320 With you guys that are dealing with divorce,

01:04:46.500 check out Divorce Not Death

01:04:49.260 to sign up for,

01:04:51.780 to be notified of when that course will be available.

01:04:54.640 That's divorcenotdeath.com.

01:04:57.360 And then as always,

01:04:58.660 connect with Mr. Mickler on X

01:05:00.400 and the gram at Ryan Mickler

01:05:03.460 and stay connected to us

01:05:05.140 by the newsletter on orderofman.com as well.

01:05:09.200 Yep, that's right.

01:05:10.180 Well, guys, appreciate the questions.

01:05:11.540 Good ones today.

01:05:12.260 A lot of people, like you said, Kip,

01:05:13.360 dealing with some hardship,

01:05:14.320 but you can get through it.

01:05:15.160 I have faith.

01:05:16.220 Kip, you've got through challenging times.

01:05:17.920 I certainly have as well.

01:05:19.400 You can.

01:05:20.000 Just make choices, learn new things.

01:05:21.680 That's what you're doing here.

01:05:22.500 Now go apply it.

01:05:23.820 All right, guys, we will be back on Friday.

01:05:25.500 Until then, go out there, take action,

01:05:27.360 and become the man you are meant to be.

01:05:33.820 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

01:05:36.780 You're ready to take charge of your life

01:05:38.420 and be more of the man you were meant to be?

01:05:40.820 We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

01:05:45.160 We'll be right back.

01:05:49.700 We'll be right back.

01:05:50.200 We'll be right back.

01:05:50.900 We'll be right back.

01:05:52.340 We'll be right back.

01:05:52.940 We'll be right back.

01:06:06.080 We'll be right back.

01:06:06.800 Check it out.

01:06:07.120 Welcome.

01:06:07.780 We'll be right back.

01:06:09.020 нолог.com.

Order of Man - August 13, 2025

Becoming Self-Aware, Overcoming Infidelity, and Disincentivizing Bad Behavior ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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