Order of Man - BERT SORIN ｜ Why Delusionally Passionate Men Win

00:00:00.120 Passion and delusion aren't two terms we often think of working in harmony, but my good friend and guest today, Bert Soren, makes the case that some of the most successful people in the world are not only the most passionate, but often believe with no real valid reason to, that they do indeed have what it takes to succeed.

00:00:18.920 Today, we talk about the ebbs and flows of life and improving the average between the two points, creating intentionality behind our actions, why EQ, emotional intelligence, is often more important than IQ, holding back in life when we shouldn't, and so much more.

00:00:36.240 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:00.560 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler. I'm your host and the founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement, and I am glad that you're here. We're into December now, which means that we're coming up to the end of the year, but I think more importantly than that, we can start thinking about, or we maybe hopefully already have, thinking about how we're going to make next year an incredible year for ourselves, and I wanted to let you know, I'm going to talk a little bit more about it later, but our exclusive brotherhood,

00:01:30.380 The Iron Council opens back up the end of next week. So if you want a brotherhood, you want camaraderie, you want accountability, and you want a system that will help you achieve whatever goals you have as we roll into the next year, then check out The Iron Council at orderofman.com slash ironcouncil.

00:01:48.240 And also wanted to mention my friends over at Montana Knife Company. They make knives, and they do a really, really good job, but one of the most important things is that they make all their knives in America, and that is something I believe in, that's something a lot of you listening believe in, and if you're looking for a great Christmas gift for somebody in your life,

00:02:09.360 Or even if you want to sneak in a Christmas gift for yourself, which is acceptable, then head to montananifecompany.com, and you're going to figure out why these guys are taking the knife-making market and world by storm, why they're growing the way they're growing, and why so many professional hunters use their knives and have had tremendous success with their tools and equipment.

00:02:33.480 Check it out at montananifecompany.com, and if you end up picking something up, use the code orderofman, all one word, orderofman, at checkout, and you'll get your discount when you do.

00:02:45.500 All right, guys, let me introduce you to my guest, and more importantly than my guest, this guy's a good friend. He's a good friend. He's been a big support to me over the past five years, and he's a good human being.

00:02:56.620 The amount of people that he has around him and the caliber of men and women around him just goes to show how incredible he is. His name is Bert Soren. He's the president and co-owner of SorenX Exercise Equipment, and they produce some of the most amazing equipment that you'll ever see.

00:03:16.700 They outfit organizations like the Vikings and the Oregon Ducks, University of North Carolina, the Atlanta Braves, just to name a few. He's also a four-time Division I All-American track and field athlete by accident.

00:03:30.960 Well, that's not entirely true, but he'll explain the story, which is actually pretty hilarious.

00:03:35.420 A former record holder in the weight throw and Olympic trial participant, but again, more than that, he's become a good friend. He's an incredible human being, and he really has the ability to connect with incredible people, unlike anyone I've ever seen in my life.

00:03:52.980 And today, through his company, they are transforming the way that college and professional athletes, veterans, and everyday people like you and me approach their health, fitness goals, and lives. Enjoy this one, fellas.

00:04:07.040 Bert, what's up, man? So good to see you. Glad you could join me on the podcast.

00:04:10.800 Yeah, man. It's good to be back, Ryan. How you been, man?

00:04:13.260 I'm doing good. I'm doing good. You and I have talked about, you know, just personal issues in life, and man, life's crazy.

00:04:20.120 Not just for me or you, but everybody listening to this podcast, especially this time of year.

00:04:25.440 Well, it's kind of the definition of life, right? I mean, that's the thing.

00:04:28.440 If you, especially, you know, someone long enough, and what have we been friends five years, six years, something?

00:04:33.300 I don't know. The time flies.

00:04:34.840 Yeah.

00:04:35.160 But, you know, anyone can see someone online or hang out with them one time at a party or a hunt or whatever.

00:04:40.820 And it's like, I know this person, but like, my opinion, consistency of like the total, I'm going to say the whole work of art, right?

00:04:47.940 But like, you know, you get around someone for five or six years, you kind of get to see the ups and downs and everything with it.

00:04:54.320 And that kind of boils down to life, right? That's kind of the best fit line of what life is doing.

00:05:00.960 So, yeah, no, it's, I know probably the first time we got to hang out was, what, at Big Chino on that hunt that time?

00:05:06.600 I think, was that the first time we did? Yeah, I think it was.

00:05:09.920 Yeah. But anyway, yeah, it's been, it's been cool. It's been, it's been interesting watching the ebbs and flows of each other's life, man.

00:05:18.440 But it's interesting. Interesting is a good word for it.

00:05:21.800 Yeah. That's kind of like the weather, right? You just, you know, it's going to change at some point, right?

00:05:27.380 Yeah. Yeah. And it, and it does. And I wish the line was linear, like you were showing. I wish it was like that, but it's not.

00:05:34.420 Hopefully over time, you can see it's up and down and then it's kind of just in there, right?

00:05:39.240 That's the average. So I think you got to tell yourself is the average, just other than that, you'll, if you, if all the ups that you're, you're never as good as your highlights and you're never as bad as your worst day.

00:05:50.140 Right. So it's kind of, that's right.

00:05:54.020 Um, I, my, uh, my oldest son who, you know, and I were talking about you the other day, cause we were watching, he, uh, he watches, uh, what's the guy's name?

00:06:01.800 D is it destroying or destroy or something where he goes around and he tours these, uh, college and professional, uh, training facilities, mostly, I think almost exclusively for football.

00:06:13.620 And I swear 80% of the gyms they show are Sorenx. And he's like, that's Sorenx, that's Sorenx, that's Sorenx. I think they were at, uh, Oregon. We watched an episode at Oregon and where was the other one?

00:06:25.900 Um, but he's like pointing out all the Sorenx equipment and everything else. And we thought that was pretty cool to see, to see what you guys have created for, tell me about, I think I know a little bit about the story, but I'm actually really curious how your dad pops started Sorenx.

00:06:42.240 Because I think there's a lesson, there's a lot of lessons in there that we, as men can learn as it relates to the kind of legacy that we want to leave for our kids.

00:06:51.100 Sure. Sure. Yeah. I mean, pop started the business of Sorenx without it really kind of actually, there was no like business plan or anything like that. It wasn't like, and gee, I don't even know if I would suggest ever doing the same way we did it.

00:07:06.620 It was just kind of like a tyranny of will and involvement and passion. And I kind of talk like, you know, passion is the stuff that usually takes you through all the really dark years or the, or the uneducated years when you're bad at it.

00:07:20.180 And if you're kind of delusionally passionate enough to keep doing it, you survive maybe, right? Like that it's, I haven't seen someone because, how do I put it?

00:07:32.200 If it had to make sense or be profitable and only be in the black from day one, no one would do it. Like, because it's so rocky, not only in the early days, but it's so rocky.

00:07:43.600 Just like we talked about life, right? If it was this all the time and you could program for it, okay, that's one thing.

00:07:48.440 But then there's up and down and whatever, but because you love it or you're passionate about it and you feel it inside, you're less likely to let go of the rope.

00:07:56.560 And that, that's kind of like when he started it, he was always into strength conditioning and probably wasn't even called strength conditioning back then.

00:08:04.260 It was called, you know, maybe the iron game or just lifting weights, right? That was just it.

00:08:08.880 Um, and his goal was just to be relevant within the world that he held most dear, which was strength. That was kind of what was, what he had and, and in good times or bad times throughout his life, the constant was the weights for him.

00:08:24.880 And, and, and maybe other people have something similar. Maybe, maybe they don't, but for him, even when he was a, a young boy that, you know, only child, both parents work six days a week, he was basically left latchkey on his own.

00:08:38.380 And, you know, in the fifties and sixties, he wasn't allowed to go out, out of the, the, the yard because parents didn't want to get into whatever.

00:08:45.940 So he was just a lone little boy, you know, that learned to build things and read about hunting and fishing and learn to lift weights because those are things he could do on his own.

00:08:57.000 And so he became a product really of his environment, uh, in many ways, but that kind of set the table for SorenX and SorenX Outdoors and all this stuff, because it was a, it was a, you have to be so about it and you are your, you're kind of like, you are your rescue in that regard.

00:09:15.320 Um, and so that just kind of built him into that. So, and, and as he got later in life, he's, he just wanted to be a part of that world that he held so dear.

00:09:25.080 And so that's, it's kind of interesting. I would say SorenX officially was 1980 when it started, but I mean, really, it probably started in 1956 when pops brought his first, um, in kindergarten, when they said, show and tell, bring your favorite thing to school.

00:09:39.200 Everyone's bringing a baby doll or a, or a teddy bear or something. And he brought his weightlifting set. Like he literally carried the bell and all the plates as a six-year-old to school and like, you know, drug it, you know, and there was like a 20 pound bar, but still like, that's pretty cool.

00:09:55.080 It's wild that a little kid would like, this is my favorite thing. And for him to be 73 now, and it's still a thing, you know, there's still some relevancy there. So in my opinion, the more, actually we're, we're in the midst of writing a book right now and he's writing it.

00:10:10.560 Um, yeah. And we're through four or five different stories right now. And I've let some of the guys read it. And, uh, there are guys here, Phil and guys like that. And Phil, Phil had the greatest response. He was like, after reading that, it's not like, was he going to do what he did or would he be successful?

00:10:31.000 That is like, you could see from an early age, this is what he was going to do. The success wasn't guaranteed, but the direction and the somewhat trajectory was guaranteed. There is no other option for Richard Soren as a person.

00:10:44.360 And it just so happened to gamble was, would it be successful or would he live under a bridge, but still be doing attempting to do the same thing. Right. And so you can see this die is cast early in life, which was, which is really interesting. Cause as I kind of go through, I'm helping the writing and the process.

00:11:00.360 The process is just like, man, it, it, it, again, not the success, but the happenings are wildly predictable when you start reverse engineering it from like the sixties or like, oh yeah, this totally makes sense now. Um, so it's wild to see go, go ahead. Sorry.

00:11:19.200 Oh, it's a really long answer to that. But I think kind of that just illustrates that, you know, in my opinion, if you're starting a business, I don't know how to start a business that only makes money.

00:11:27.920 I don't understand that. That's not like, that's not my gearing. That's not my gifting. So people that could do that go, oh, that sounds like a great business idea. And like, that would be super profitable. And they, I don't even give a crap what these widgets are, but I'm going to make 30%. I'm glad people could do that. I can't, I may be too close to the things I love, but because of that, I probably held on during rougher times and probably gutted it out longer than most people would because that love was there.

00:11:55.220 And so which one is better. I don't know. I know which one feels more, uh, real, like going down with a ship, right. One way or the other, maybe, maybe it would be less painful if I was smarter and less connected to it.

00:12:12.080 Maybe, I don't know. You guys seem to be, again, you don't see the entire picture from the outside looking in, but one of the wild things to me is whenever I'm at a summer strong or winter strong or any one of your guys' events, like I see him, I'm an observer and I watch pops and I see him and he's standing there and you can just see, he's got like a little twinkle in his eye.

00:12:31.240 He doesn't really say a whole lot all the time, but he's just standing there. He's always there. He's always present. And he always has just this air of, of maybe gratitude or pride, not prideful. I'm not saying that, but pride in what you're doing with the business, what you guys are doing with the movement, the organization and how it's all coming together.

00:12:52.160 And I think about when I'm 73 years old, I hope I'm in that position where I can look at what I've created and think, you know, this has been crazy. We've had some highs and lows, but overall we've done pretty good for ourselves and other people in the meantime.

00:13:06.720 Yeah, I agree, man. And, and that's, it was kind of interesting. I was talking with my wife the other day about it. Like, I think you have to have the passion and the presence of the time, but I believe personally, I, I shouldn't say,

00:13:21.860 I believe you should. I know I have, and I think it's maybe that's just how my brain works. I try to see what is the scenario going to be in 10, 20, 30 years, or even upon like my funeral.

00:13:36.140 What are people saying about me and what I left at my funeral? And then you work backwards from there. And, you know, I think that that's in a way, I think pops had that, although he was, he was very driven of what he was doing.

00:13:48.940 And he's always kind of had a, a forward thinking mindset. And it's not just been through innovation, but it's like, you know, I was, I had the opportunity to hunt a fella's farm, um, about, about a month ago.

00:14:01.060 And it was the coolest thing. And so we were hunting and, and he had his couple hundred acre farm and we were talking just, and he knew I was, you know, had a farm and kind of forward thinking.

00:14:09.560 And he goes, let me show you something. We jumped in his golf cart and he showed me this row of oak trees. It was like 200 yards long that bisected this big field.

00:14:18.440 And it was 200 yards, probably 10 to 12 yards wide. And every 10 yards was this, were these, um, sawtooth oak trees. And they were just like, it's like this, this line.

00:14:30.200 And they called it the, I think the wedding aisle or something like that. And I was like, and he goes, pretty cool, huh? And I was like, yeah, that's awesome. You know, I'm kind of looking at all the deer tracks everywhere.

00:14:39.700 And like, you know, the, the, the feed and everything that he's created. And I was like, what's the story? He's like, my sons and I planted these trees as acorns.

00:14:50.960 Oh, we watched them grow. They started dropping acorns. When they got big enough, we hung a deer stand in them. We've hunted out of them. And then my son got married in this aisle last year.

00:15:04.480 Oh, so cool.

00:15:06.200 You won, dude. You won. You thought so far ahead and he kind of jeered up talking about it. And I saw that and I was like, oh, that's, that's the goal, right?

00:15:15.420 That's the goal to, to think far enough advance where you create an amazing experience. You taught your sons things. You experienced your son. They saw the growth of something. You saw it manifest itself to the point where they started the next phase of their life.

00:15:29.460 And it was important enough that they walked down the aisle of those oak trees. And I'm like, wow. And when I left his farm, he, he brought me a, um, a Ziploc bag full of those from acorns.

00:15:41.360 He's like, put them in the refrigerator for this, for the fall. And he goes, the next spring, pull them out. And he told me how to do it. He's like, I want you to plant some of these on your farm. So you always have part of our farm on your farm.

00:15:51.260 Oh, that's cool.

00:15:52.100 Like, so I have six months to figure out like, where do I want to put these there? But I thought about, I was like, that's, that's the move, right? It's not, what can this give me today? What can this give me when I'm gone? What can this give my family or what can the, and I think about like,

00:16:07.180 what would you pay to be able to go back 20 years and rewrite that portion? And, you know, and it was just such a beautiful and brilliant way to look at life.

00:16:17.380 And I can't remember who said it, but they said, you know, pick where you want to be and live life and then reverse life and live your life backwards. Basically. It's like, where do I want to be? What do I want to leave? What do I want people saying or feeling when I'm gone?

00:16:30.460 And I thought about the other day, I was like, when I die, what do I want the people who knew me to, to feel, not just to say, but to feel.

00:16:39.540 And it's like, in some way you kind of would want everyone to be sad, at least initially, because you know that you mattered, you know, that, you know, because there's a, there's a kind of an egotistical part in it.

00:16:50.480 Like everyone's like, oh man, that guy's gone. Well, anyway, what are you having for lunch? You're like, oh shit.

00:16:54.100 Like, you know, I mean, because that's a real thing that could happen. And you're like, that'd be terrible. 1.00

00:17:00.520 And then you're like, I kind of want people to be really sad, but just for a brief second, because I wouldn't want to put that on them, but I'd want to maybe, because if they're sad, that means that me being here was better than me being gone.

00:17:14.680 But then the other side goes, well, but I want it better after I'm gone. Like if I've really done my job, maybe you feel it was better with me here, but the reality of it is it's better because of my life's work.

00:17:30.180 And so I've been kind of wrestling with that late. I don't know why. I mean, I don't think I'm going to die anytime soon, but that was part of the like forward thinking of going, okay, what can I set up over the next 20 or 30 or hopefully longer years to where

00:17:42.100 whatever that end thing is, is it sets right with me.

00:17:48.800 Man, that's so powerful. I actually have a similar story as the one that you just told with a family that I hunt with in Minnesota. And I was driving around with their father.

00:17:58.420 It's his property.

00:17:59.520 Yeah. I want to hear more about it too.

00:18:00.880 That's right. We need to get you out there. Anyways, we were talking and we were driving around, moving a couple of stands around and he had showed me some pine trees that he had just planted and they were small.

00:18:10.540 They were probably a foot or two off the ground. And I, and I remember saying to him, I said, you know, how long before you're able to sit in those trees and hunt out of those trees?

00:18:18.380 And he's like, Oh, I'll never be able to do it. I'll be long dead and gone before my sons are hunting in those trees.

00:18:25.340 Yeah. And the same, same thing. I mean, hunting runs in their blood. They love it. They live for it, farming and hunting.

00:18:32.220 And man, they're out there planting trees and clearing lanes and wondering how the deer are moving.

00:18:37.740 And they're doing things that for him, he's not going to see in his lifetime. He's definitely not going to see it happen.

00:18:44.180 Right. But hopefully he has that legacy that his sons can carry on.

00:18:47.600 And his grandsons now that I've seen over seven years, you know, they're his, one of his boys just shot an amazing buck from there.

00:18:56.100 I think it was either, I think it was either first or second buck and it's this biggest mass on this buck I've ever seen.

00:19:02.360 And I think, man, that's, that's the legacy. That's it right there.

00:19:06.400 Yeah, exactly. And when we bought our farm, you know, there was a lot of work that had been done.

00:19:12.260 I've done some work to it, but you know, the trees I'm sitting in and the fields I'm in and the pond I'm fishing in, I had to, I didn't, someone thought enough in advance.

00:19:23.420 Thankfully, it eventually came my way. They weren't thinking of me, they were thinking of someone, they were thinking of leaving it better than they found it.

00:19:31.760 And, you know, I'd love to go back and talk to whoever that was that decided to dam up the creek on our farm 120 years ago.

00:19:39.920 And how they prepped it and all the things and all the little spots of the ducks land on this spot and then this and you finding these little Easter eggs around the farm.

00:19:49.140 You're like, man, some guy spent a multitude of weekends doing this work and had this dream of this, you know, these ducks cupping down, coming onto this little kill hole or this little thing.

00:19:58.920 It's just like, but that's passion. That's passion. They were passionate about it.

00:20:04.460 And so then they did the work and then they wanted to leave it better.

00:20:07.960 And I mean, I think that just goes all, I mean, kind of all the things you're talking about, it goes into business.

00:20:12.080 It goes into parenting. It goes into all of that. It goes into who you are as a person, in my opinion.

00:20:19.680 And if it doesn't, again, my opinion, I think probably re-evaluating the situation might be in order.

00:20:30.920 How are you doing that now, specifically with your children?

00:20:34.220 I've seen your kids get older, like we said, over the last five or six years and mine are getting older.

00:20:38.820 How is a guy as busy as you are with your business?

00:20:42.300 And obviously, we're right in the middle of hunting season.

00:20:44.900 I know that's important to you guys.

00:20:46.880 How do you see doing that for your children when most of us, yourself included, are so engaged with professional goals and hobbies?

00:20:56.000 Like, I wish that I could just sit and play with my kids in the forest and fields all day long, but I can't.

00:21:01.120 Nobody can.

00:21:01.680 How do you bring that element into it?

00:21:05.040 Because I know it's important to you and I know you're doing it because I've seen it.

00:21:08.180 I'm just curious how you do it.

00:21:10.940 First of all, I don't do it nearly as much as I'd want.

00:21:13.820 And that's just the reality.

00:21:14.960 So, I don't want to be put on any type of pedestal saying that I'm killing it because I would say almost every day I'm frustrated in the lack of quality time that I give my kids.

00:21:26.340 Is it maybe more or less than a lot of good people I know?

00:21:33.140 I don't know.

00:21:35.160 I don't know how to stack up per se, but I know it's kind of like it's never enough for them.

00:21:43.700 I know that.

00:21:44.840 Yeah, true.

00:21:45.840 Because they all ask for more, right?

00:21:47.520 And I say no, unfortunately, more than I say yes.

00:21:51.000 You know, I mean, that's the part that hurts your heart.

00:21:54.480 And it's been hitting me a lot lately, just realizing like, because they've kind of hit the perfect age now, you know, seven, almost, almost eight, almost 10 and almost 12.

00:22:04.960 So, it's like this, they're kind of self-sufficient in a way where most things are kind of doing and you don't have to like babysit, you know, manage all that.

00:22:14.500 But, you know, if you throw a ball at them, they catch it.

00:22:16.680 If you want to tell them to go get their hunting stuff on, they could go find it.

00:22:19.520 So, you're not, like, it's kind of that free run place where we could go do stuff and I'm enjoying it.

00:22:25.340 But you're right.

00:22:26.200 I get a lot of opportunities.

00:22:27.600 I get a lot of obligations.

00:22:29.880 And, you know, I mean, heck, between whatever, you know, I'm gone a third of the, I don't know what to say, probably, probably have an obligation, probably a third of the weekends a year.

00:22:40.440 You know, and that's just fast math.

00:22:43.720 It might be more than that.

00:22:45.300 And, you know, and then most of the days, I don't have many days during the week that I just take off and stay home.

00:22:50.560 If I take a day off, I'm out of town.

00:22:53.820 I think my kids are used to it, which is good and bad, you know.

00:23:00.080 It's hard.

00:23:00.800 This is what I'm saying.

00:23:01.560 It's hard.

00:23:02.120 It's hard, man.

00:23:02.960 You want them.

00:23:03.880 I want my kids to go, okay, go after your goals.

00:23:06.940 Go run after life.

00:23:08.380 Don't sit around.

00:23:09.200 Don't sit around and play video games and wait for something to happen.

00:23:11.720 Like, go get it.

00:23:12.500 If they could view me waking up in the morning and training and doing stuff and, you know, any second that I'm not watching TV, I'm either shooting my bow or cooking something with them or throwing the ball with them.

00:23:25.600 Or sometimes it's just sitting with Leslie and having coffee.

00:23:29.480 It drives them crazy.

00:23:30.700 Like on Saturday morning, that's usually when I will get to catch up.

00:23:33.800 And we'll go out on the back porch and we might sit for two hours and have coffee.

00:23:37.600 And they're like, mom, what are we doing?

00:23:41.320 It's just like, you know, part of me is like, guys, okay, give me a second.

00:23:46.320 They're like, you always say that.

00:23:47.400 And I'm like, yeah, should we?

00:23:48.500 And we talk.

00:23:49.040 We're like, should we be leaning into them right now because this is our day to be with them?

00:23:53.760 Or do they need to see us doing this and realize this is a priority, right?

00:23:59.320 And because maybe they'll do that with their spouse one day, hopefully, if they see it.

00:24:03.880 But we laugh.

00:24:04.800 We're like, man, they're just little monsters that will eat as much as you can feed them.

00:24:07.900 If you gave them all the attention, they'd want more.

00:24:10.740 Um, so at some point, like I kind of go back and forth talking to Luke day.

00:24:15.900 And it's like, how much did, how much do they really need?

00:24:18.660 And how much at some point, when do they need to learn to deal with?

00:24:22.960 It's not as good as you'd want it.

00:24:24.540 Just on kind of a toughness thing, right?

00:24:26.420 Like a coach talking harshly to them.

00:24:29.660 Not that I necessarily want a coach talking harshly or anyone talking harshly,

00:24:34.220 but the reality is it's effective and just going to happen in life.

00:24:37.920 And I'd rather it happen when you're living in my house and I could kind of walk you through

00:24:41.520 the, the micro trauma that that is versus, you know, versus later in life.

00:24:47.940 And I mean, I was talking to Luke, Luke's a great friend of mine, man, child media on

00:24:52.160 Instagram.

00:24:52.740 He's a strength conditioning coach for South Carolina football.

00:24:55.980 Awesome guy.

00:24:57.360 But he said, he said the kids that come there that are, that are resilient to harsh criticism,

00:25:04.640 he said is a superpower today. 0.99

00:25:07.220 He said the kids that you could get in their butt and yell at them and whatever. 0.99

00:25:11.400 And then they could just kind of go, yes, sir. 0.98

00:25:13.320 And take it and then actually make an action step.

00:25:15.840 And it doesn't derail their mentality and emotion.

00:25:18.480 He's like, it's a superpower today.

00:25:20.140 He goes, wasn't necessarily 20 years ago.

00:25:22.420 It was kind of like standard operating procedure.

00:25:25.140 And so that's part of it.

00:25:26.500 Like in some ways, I kind of want my kids to learn how to be disappointed at times.

00:25:30.960 Like, just like, I'm not going to drop what I'm doing right now.

00:25:33.620 Cause I've been waiting all week to have coffee with your mom.

00:25:35.620 Sorry, this is, I'm going to finish.

00:25:38.260 And you can go do what you want to do.

00:25:40.040 You're 10 or 10 years old now.

00:25:41.500 You could go, go do your thing.

00:25:44.780 I'll be there in a minute.

00:25:47.060 I might be doing it wrong.

00:25:48.140 I don't know.

00:25:48.360 My kids might need a lot of counseling later on.

00:25:50.040 I know.

00:25:51.760 What's the saying?

00:25:52.620 It's, we're all going to damage our children.

00:25:54.420 Just the way in which we do it.

00:25:55.760 Something like that.

00:25:57.040 Yeah.

00:25:57.400 There's going to be micro traumas either way.

00:25:59.380 Right.

00:26:00.320 And it's like, but I guess to kind of look at a more esoteric view of it, training is

00:26:06.280 micro trauma.

00:26:06.980 Like if you were, if you were weightlifting, the whole reason your muscles grow is because

00:26:11.580 there's micro trauma that you then have to repair.

00:26:14.500 That's why they get stronger.

00:26:15.620 That's why they get more dense.

00:26:16.600 That's why they get bigger.

00:26:17.820 And so it's like, is raising kids just like a controlled micro trauma?

00:26:22.920 I don't know.

00:26:23.800 Like it's an interesting way.

00:26:26.240 I think to your point about, about lifting weights.

00:26:29.280 Yes.

00:26:29.680 I could see it being micro trauma.

00:26:30.980 I think the difference is that it's intentional, it's focused, and there's a plan behind it

00:26:38.480 because you can go train and you can do whatever you can hurt yourself very easily doing something

00:26:44.760 inappropriate, just like a child could get himself or herself into more trouble than they

00:26:49.060 ought to at 10 years old because they don't have an intentional plan.

00:26:52.100 And, you know, you think about you and Leslie being out on the porch, having a coffee, but

00:26:56.640 then you explain it.

00:26:57.900 Hey, no, we're having, we're doing our thing together.

00:27:00.380 You go play.

00:27:01.060 Here's some things that you can go do.

00:27:02.240 And you have the environment that you've created that allows them to go out and do that.

00:27:07.020 But I think about our, I don't know about you.

00:27:09.180 I'm sure it's, I'm sure it's similar.

00:27:10.880 Although you were probably in the woods and I was in the city, my mom would kick me out

00:27:14.300 of the house and literally lock the screen door behind me.

00:27:17.160 And I'd put up a fight for like an hour and finally realized she wasn't going to unlock

00:27:21.300 it.

00:27:21.780 And so then I'd go find something to do.

00:27:23.340 And when the streetlights came on, I knew it was time to go home and go to dinner, but

00:27:27.060 I was out there finding all sorts of stuff to do.

00:27:29.120 And fortunately we stayed out of trouble for the most part.

00:27:32.060 For the most part.

00:27:32.780 Yeah.

00:27:33.040 I remember it similarly.

00:27:34.100 I remember my mom telling me, so, you know, I live with only my mom when I was younger.

00:27:38.960 Um, and, uh, I remember she telling me later in life, she said, I would come in a room and

00:27:43.840 cry and want to like sleep in her bed with her and everything.

00:27:47.460 The little kid, like two, three, four years old.

00:27:49.400 And she's like, I never did it.

00:27:51.220 And I was like, really?

00:27:52.260 She's like, that was the hardest thing I ever had to do in my life was listen to you cry

00:27:55.820 because you were lonely or whatever.

00:27:57.260 She's like, but I knew if I did it once, you'd do it every night.

00:28:00.500 You'd be a mama's boy. 0.96

00:28:01.740 You wouldn't be independent.

00:28:02.820 You wouldn't know how to self-soothe.

00:28:04.680 She's like, I knew that would happen.

00:28:06.060 And she's like, it was the hardest thing I ever had to do.

00:28:08.440 And I'm like, man, I've had that same situation.

00:28:11.820 I failed that one.

00:28:12.680 It's like, yeah, buddy, just get in bed with me.

00:28:14.260 I got to go to sleep.

00:28:15.320 I'm tired.

00:28:16.080 Right.

00:28:16.460 Yeah.

00:28:16.880 Yeah.

00:28:17.220 I'm tired.

00:28:18.000 Yeah.

00:28:18.340 Just, okay.

00:28:18.800 Move over.

00:28:19.220 Just get in there.

00:28:19.940 Like, but I'm thinking back.

00:28:21.480 I was like, wow, for a, for a single woman to have to like the one person in her life 0.72

00:28:25.700 she lived with and like to intentionally choose whether it was right or wrong.

00:28:29.760 I mean, the, the dias cast at this point.

00:28:31.520 Um, you know, but it was like, man, that was interesting, but it was at least a plan

00:28:36.960 and it was effective because early, pretty early on, I figured out like, Oh, I have support 0.92

00:28:43.020 to varying levels, but generally I got to figure shit out. 0.98

00:28:47.020 Okay. 0.95

00:28:47.380 You know, and we were laughing the other day, she, you know, kind of tongue in cheek,

00:28:52.540 you know, she's kind of like, I wish you'd come over more of this and that.

00:28:55.080 And I was like, well, you made me pretty independent.

00:28:57.480 It worked.

00:28:59.380 But both of my parents, like their goal was to make me independent and capable.

00:29:04.020 And I was like, well, there's the other side of that.

00:29:05.700 I left home at 17, hadn't come back, you know?

00:29:09.140 Yeah.

00:29:10.220 You went at 17, you went to, you know, chase, chase your athletic dreams.

00:29:14.300 Is that, is that what it was?

00:29:15.860 Yeah.

00:29:16.100 I went to South Carolina for college and then quickly, uh, inadvertently walked on the track

00:29:20.980 team.

00:29:21.240 And then once I'd found that it gave me a purpose and a drive and a passion.

00:29:25.040 And then it was kind of like, I'd live under a bridge if I had to, to get to do what I wanted

00:29:28.380 to do that.

00:29:31.440 Man, just a step away from the conversation very quickly.

00:29:34.580 I wanted to let you know that the iron council, as I said earlier, is opening up again next

00:29:39.040 week.

00:29:39.320 And I cannot wait to have you guys band with us because the men who tap into this powerful

00:29:44.580 brotherhood of camaraderie and accountability, they do it in a way that produces real results

00:29:50.800 in every facets of their lives.

00:29:53.000 And when you band with us, you're going to get the systems that you need to crush 2024.

00:29:59.240 Unlike you have at any other point in your life, we've seen thousands, maybe even tens

00:30:04.840 of thousands.

00:30:05.340 I'd have to go look, but we've seen thousands of men improve their marriages, get strong

00:30:10.020 and fit, grow their businesses and their bank accounts.

00:30:12.980 In the meantime, start businesses and generally just improve their fulfillment and satisfaction

00:30:18.380 in life and the way they're serving others.

00:30:20.640 And I know you can do that too, because I have done it for myself and I've grown and

00:30:26.380 fallen and grown and follow.

00:30:27.640 And when I follow the system, it works.

00:30:29.480 And I've seen, like I said, thousands of other men do it for themselves who didn't believe

00:30:33.580 that they could.

00:30:34.740 So guys, you can join us at order of man.com slash iron council.

00:30:38.320 If you do it before the 15th of next week, you just put yourself on a wait list and I'll

00:30:42.280 send you an email personally right when we open up so you can get started as quickly as

00:30:47.400 possible.

00:30:48.060 Again, that's order of man.com slash iron council.

00:30:51.340 You can do that right after the show for now.

00:30:53.380 Let's get back to it with Bert.

00:30:56.080 Was that a mistake?

00:30:57.080 You said inadvertently you walked onto the, onto the team.

00:31:00.360 Well, I was, I had, I was on the track team in high school.

00:31:03.880 I wasn't very good.

00:31:04.800 And so when I got to South Carolina, it was kind of, I wanted to go to app state, which

00:31:11.280 was like Appalachian state in the mountains.

00:31:12.700 Cause I wanted to do like all that thing.

00:31:14.700 Um, but I applied late.

00:31:16.800 So I got into South Carolina cause it was bright down the road and that was my second choice.

00:31:20.900 And I was like, I'll go there for like six months, get my grades, blah, blah, blah, and

00:31:24.660 bounce to the mountains and be a fly fishing hunting guide.

00:31:28.580 And, you know, no athletic thoughts.

00:31:31.320 It was like, I'll lift weights.

00:31:32.800 Cause I like lifting weights, but it was like, I grew a beard and just be a grubby dude in

00:31:37.100 the mountains.

00:31:38.420 Um, weird.

00:31:40.700 Now you're a grubby dude, but you're not like totally in the mountains.

00:31:43.480 Like half the time you are and half the time you're not.

00:31:46.520 Exactly.

00:31:47.540 Uh, so yeah, I went to South Carolina and then of course, like drank for the first six or

00:31:51.660 seven days.

00:31:53.120 Cause that's you're in college and you watched eighties movies and you thought that's what

00:31:56.340 you're supposed to do when you get to college.

00:31:58.580 And, um, and then I was, uh, I called dad cause I was like, I probably should get a lift

00:32:04.300 in. 0.74

00:32:05.160 And we went to the rec center and the rec center sucked. 0.76

00:32:07.940 It was terrible equipment.

00:32:09.040 And, you know, it's a little bit of a snob that grew up on good stuff.

00:32:12.780 And, uh, so I called, I knew the football weight room had really good stuff.

00:32:16.720 So I called my dad.

00:32:17.480 I was like, Hey, you think you, the end of the gym.

00:32:19.320 And he's like, yeah, sure.

00:32:20.220 And again, in 1994, there's a lot more loosey goosey ness of who you knew, you know, it was

00:32:25.220 yeah.

00:32:25.840 And so he called coach coach like, yeah, tell him to come in after that.

00:32:28.580 Athletes leave.

00:32:29.240 I'm like, all right, good.

00:32:30.080 And he tells me, of course, like 17.

00:32:32.300 So the time goes right out my window of my mind.

00:32:35.520 I finished my burrito.

00:32:36.840 I'm like sitting around my dorm room.

00:32:38.060 Like, anyway, I'm going to go.

00:32:39.740 So I just went, but if you've ever been to a college weight room at 2 PM, it's like the

00:32:46.140 busiest time ever.

00:32:47.100 Cause everyone's out of class.

00:32:48.240 So I just saunter in this division one SEC college weight room and everyone's lifting.

00:32:54.020 I just cruise in and like, no one says anything to me because it's the first week of school.

00:32:57.460 So all the different sports are in there.

00:32:59.780 So it was like, like wedding crashers.

00:33:02.120 So I just kind of walked in and I'm looking around and I'm like, oh, cool.

00:33:06.460 It's like, I have platforms open.

00:33:08.820 Sweet.

00:33:09.120 So I grab a bar, I stack on some plates.

00:33:11.080 I'm doing some cleans.

00:33:12.720 It's fun.

00:33:13.520 It's so sweet.

00:33:14.180 They got a LECO bars.

00:33:15.140 This is great.

00:33:16.580 And, uh, and they walk, look over and there's a line of people doing vertical jump testing.

00:33:21.600 And of course, Rocky four was like one of my favorite movies of all the diagnostics. 0.99

00:33:26.060 So I'm like, shit. 0.98

00:33:27.700 And someone stood in the line, they come to me and they're like, uh, what's your name? 1.00

00:33:33.680 I'm like, ah, crap. 0.66

00:33:34.780 So they hand me a piece of paper. 0.94

00:33:36.200 I write my name down and they measure, you know, and they take the thing and then they,

00:33:39.860 you jump up and they get the difference.

00:33:41.320 And, uh, he's like, writes down my result and hands it to me, hands me the sheet and

00:33:45.360 like, cool.

00:33:46.660 So I walked back, I started doing bench presses and benching.

00:33:50.300 And then I walk, look over in the same line of people is in this office and they have their

00:33:54.300 shirts all pulled up because they're doing body fat caliber testing.

00:33:56.920 Oh, got it.

00:33:57.560 Right.

00:33:58.180 That looks cool too.

00:33:59.960 So I went and got on and I was like, this is awesome.

00:34:03.420 And then, uh, and then so they did it and I walk up and the guy is sitting in a chair and

00:34:08.300 I'm like kind of handing my sheet.

00:34:10.220 I guess that's kind of the ticket to get the ride, the ride, you know?

00:34:14.280 And, uh, he goes, all right, what sport are you? 0.99

00:34:16.460 I'm like, ah, crap. 0.93

00:34:17.520 You know, cause I wasn't an athlete at all. 0.95

00:34:19.880 And I was like, I try to feel it.

00:34:21.640 Cause I'm thinking like, all right, this is, that's like the universal get out of jail.

00:34:25.040 Cause there's no one on the track and field team.

00:34:27.260 It was like when I was later, when I was a thrower, we went to, we would go out to like

00:34:31.440 bars and stuff like that.

00:34:32.860 Like girls would come up to us. 0.96

00:34:34.040 Cause we're like, you know, big dudes.

00:34:35.780 Yeah.

00:34:35.900 Big guys.

00:34:36.600 Yeah.

00:34:37.380 Yeah.

00:34:37.560 They're like, do you guys play football?

00:34:38.920 And we're like, no, we're throwers.

00:34:40.540 And they would just leave.

00:34:42.620 Yeah.

00:34:43.520 We play football.

00:34:44.680 We realized quickly that we played for the Detroit lions.

00:34:47.920 Exactly.

00:34:49.000 Exactly.

00:34:49.980 And no one knew who played for the lions in those days.

00:34:52.540 So we're like, all right, you can't call our bluff on this.

00:34:55.280 So we, we joked when we were in college, we played for the lions. 1.00

00:34:58.680 Um, long, stupid story. 0.98

00:35:00.980 But, but so, uh, they, he goes, well, what sport? 1.00

00:35:04.340 And I get, well, the shot put in discus.

00:35:06.100 Cause I had done shot put in discus. 0.98

00:35:07.780 That was the sport that I knew that I could kind of bullshit. 0.96

00:35:11.880 Cause I knew enough, you know? 0.98

00:35:13.900 And he was like, oh, okay.

00:35:15.160 Well, how far did you throw?

00:35:16.100 And I'm like, I'm like, well, I told him, I was like, I wasn't very good.

00:35:20.040 You know, I only threw this and this.

00:35:21.760 And he's like, well, that's not very good.

00:35:23.180 I go, yeah, I know. 0.97

00:35:24.220 Like, I just told you, I was like, why is this guy giving me a crap about this?

00:35:27.360 Anyway, so he goes, well, my name is Larry judge.

00:35:30.580 I'm the throws coach university of South Carolina.

00:35:32.400 And I'm like, but out of all the people that he is like BS, right.

00:35:37.760 It's just like, you meet John Dudley and you tell him like you're an archery expert.

00:35:41.120 And he's like, really?

00:35:42.580 You're like, tell me about that.

00:35:44.540 He's making up things.

00:35:45.820 You don't even know to bow.

00:35:46.860 Right.

00:35:47.640 And so the guy was like, okay, well, uh, I'm throws coach.

00:35:52.520 I'm like, you know, but of course I'll play it off.

00:35:54.820 I'm like, oh, right on.

00:35:55.700 Good to meet you.

00:35:56.360 You know, all this stuff.

00:35:57.360 I'm thinking like jettison, you know, pull the ripcord, get out of, get out of this

00:36:01.300 tailspin, go back to lifting your nuns. 1.00

00:36:03.660 No one's the wiser.

00:36:05.400 And, um, he goes, okay, well, we'll practice starts tomorrow.

00:36:08.880 You know, it's like in August.

00:36:11.340 And I'm like, uh, track spring sport.

00:36:13.940 And he was like, son, you're in college now.

00:36:15.520 It's a, it's a, it's around the, around the clock around.

00:36:18.420 Yeah, for sure.

00:36:19.440 Like, all right, cool.

00:36:21.440 Yeah, man.

00:36:21.800 I'll try to make it again.

00:36:23.480 BS.

00:36:24.340 And he goes, he looks at me, he goes, no, if you're going to be on the team, you will

00:36:27.380 make it.

00:36:28.520 And I go, oh, okay.

00:36:31.620 And I walked off and I was like, that was weird.

00:36:34.500 And I went back to my dorm room.

00:36:35.940 I finished my lift.

00:36:36.700 I went back to my dorm room, called pops.

00:36:38.440 I was, he was like, he's like, how's the lift?

00:36:40.460 I was like, good.

00:36:41.040 I think I joined the track team because he was like the highest recruited discus

00:36:46.260 thrower in the nation when he was a high school.

00:36:48.380 So like, yeah, that's why we were in South Carolina because he had a full ride to South

00:36:53.000 Carolina to throw discus.

00:36:54.700 Got it.

00:36:55.180 Okay.

00:36:55.620 I would have been like a legacy to this legend.

00:36:58.120 Right.

00:36:58.980 Yeah.

00:36:59.280 And he's like, what are you thinking?

00:37:00.800 Like this, we didn't discuss this at all.

00:37:03.200 You know, that would be like, you know, your son calling me, he's like, well, I'm wrestling

00:37:07.060 in Iowa now you're like, whoa, and I didn't know that South Carolina actually had like

00:37:14.040 one of the premier throw squads in the nation.

00:37:16.160 It was just coming up.

00:37:17.580 And so it would be kind of like your son goes to Iowa.

00:37:20.760 He's going to be like a park ranger and day three of school.

00:37:25.260 He calls you and says he's on the wrestling team.

00:37:27.220 You're right.

00:37:28.440 Like, okay, you wrestled in high school, but you were not good.

00:37:31.380 Like, what are we talking about here?

00:37:33.600 So that's what occurred.

00:37:34.920 And then I saw one and pops like, what are you going to do?

00:37:36.800 And I was like, guess I'm going to go, like going to show up, see what happens.

00:37:42.540 Like, that was kind of where that, I kind of go backtrack things that like were hyper

00:37:47.420 changes in my life.

00:37:49.900 And like, that was the split second decision, that specific decision, that open door that

00:37:55.560 I walked through was the decision that changed everything like that.

00:37:59.500 I guess I'll go was that.

00:38:02.100 And I look back and go, well, how did that even occur?

00:38:04.500 And I keep backtracking it.

00:38:07.020 And it's like, well, part of it was curiosity.

00:38:10.760 I was interested to like what those guys were doing.

00:38:14.760 I stood in the line.

00:38:15.840 I wasn't afraid to go stand in the line, kind of very Forrest Gump like.

00:38:19.060 Um, but then prior to that, I guess it was a little bit of passion because I, although

00:38:24.720 I was in college and partying and all the stuff, like I still love lifting weights.

00:38:29.700 And so I knew I probably should, cause I wanted to.

00:38:32.120 So I went out of my comfort zone, found a place to go lift.

00:38:36.180 There was literally 200 athletes of all types were in the room and I was just walked in with

00:38:41.280 them.

00:38:41.440 I was like, I don't want to go clean.

00:38:42.360 Cause bars open, like, let's go.

00:38:45.440 Um, so I look back and like, okay, what set up that scenario?

00:38:49.380 But the key of the whole thing was I said, yes, I was like, yeah, I'll show up.

00:38:54.280 And I showed up the next day and I remember showing up and like, I was 170 pounds.

00:38:59.680 Everyone else is like 250, 280, just monsters.

00:39:04.640 Yeah.

00:39:04.840 Big, big, big college, full scholarship throwers.

00:39:08.760 And I'm a walk on dude, like a dude.

00:39:12.960 And, um, and I remember asking these guys like, you're having, y'all are seniors.

00:39:16.300 And they're like, nah, man, we're freshmen coming in.

00:39:18.040 I'm like, oh, this is bad plan.

00:39:20.040 Yeah.

00:39:20.960 You know?

00:39:21.540 And then, but I went to practice a couple of days and a couple of guys were pretty

00:39:26.240 friendly with me and they were just kind and they weren't kind of, you know, they'd

00:39:29.940 screw with me a little bit.

00:39:30.900 Cause I was just some skinny kid.

00:39:32.480 Right.

00:39:33.380 But I wasn't even on the radar enough for them to really screw with me.

00:39:36.500 Right.

00:39:36.700 Cause they were concerned about their, they were the guy that, you know, I was a guy

00:39:39.700 they figured would be there for a week, 10 days, you know, at best.

00:39:44.640 Um, but I think what really happened was we were on four week training cycles,

00:39:51.260 training blocks.

00:39:51.940 And at the end of the four week block, my lifting just from that amount of volume had

00:39:57.660 just skyrocketed within four weeks.

00:40:00.000 And it was crazy.

00:40:01.540 And I remember for the first time going, wow, things are happening very, very quickly.

00:40:07.680 Now I was a late bloomer too.

00:40:09.000 So I was 17 years old, really spike in puberty at the same time.

00:40:12.760 And then I was in the, in the, all you could eat, uh, you know, dorms.

00:40:17.020 And so I was just hammering food.

00:40:18.280 So I, from August to December, my freshman year, I gained 30 pounds.

00:40:22.740 So it was like, it always wanted to be big and strong.

00:40:25.340 And this, it was happening literally by the day.

00:40:27.760 And you, that is what I found was wildly addictive.

00:40:30.860 And I was like, oh, so the harder I go and the more I eat is exponentially.

00:40:38.000 I get exponentially stronger and bigger every day.

00:40:40.580 And all I have to do is pump into the machine effort and food.

00:40:44.200 Got it.

00:40:46.180 And that was the plan.

00:40:48.640 Like, and then it just became addictive.

00:40:50.180 It's like, okay, then I'm going to train twice as much as everyone.

00:40:53.240 And I'm only three times as much as everyone.

00:40:55.340 And I, my goal was catch up with everybody.

00:40:57.920 And I think that also kind of set the stage for later in life,

00:41:01.980 beginning to figure out that economy of like, the, the differentiator is effort.

00:41:10.160 Like just effort, just outwork everybody and give it enough time.

00:41:14.560 And eventually, you know, eventually you'll, you'll surpass people.

00:41:18.860 And that was, that was the idea in business.

00:41:20.820 That was certainly the idea that, that, that era taught me, uh, in track and field.

00:41:26.260 So, and then basically Sornax was just later in life was just a re-manifestation of the same process.

00:41:34.080 It was, we got some good things.

00:41:35.660 The genetics were there, but okay, let's do a couple innovative things.

00:41:40.820 And then let's just outwork everybody.

00:41:42.800 Let's just show up.

00:41:43.760 And, you know, like, I, I think like one thing I was proud of is, you know, walked on,

00:41:50.540 never made the state championship or anything in high school and ended up four-time All-American.

00:41:55.880 And my last throw of my SEC career, I broke the SEC record the same year I was team captain.

00:42:01.780 And, but that was, that also taught me like, nothing matters where you start.

00:42:07.080 Like you can, you can overcome all this other stuff.

00:42:10.480 And I think kind of almost delusionally believing that is a superpower because like you could do way more than you think you can,

00:42:19.460 if you just truly kind of dumbly believe you can.

00:42:23.000 Um, but being able to train every day with Olympians and All-Americans and people like that.

00:42:28.560 And so you quickly realize that Olympians aren't something that's on a Wheaties box and you could use,

00:42:34.840 Olympians could be famous people that have a big following or, or, uh, whatever your thing is, right?

00:42:43.180 Whatever your thing is right.

00:42:44.380 Hyper successful people.

00:42:45.620 Because in my, when my kid in mind was all Americans and champions are these things,

00:42:50.880 these people you meet at like an event or the mall and you shake their hand and you take a picture of them and you realize you touch greatness for three seconds.

00:42:57.620 And that's the closest you'll ever be to it because those are, that's for other people.

00:43:01.820 And then that first year taught me, no, I'm around these people every day and I see their work ethic.

00:43:07.540 I see what they do.

00:43:08.580 I see what they don't do.

00:43:09.960 And I started realizing where I was and where they were, the gap kept shrinking.

00:43:14.860 It kept shrinking.

00:43:16.020 And I was like, oh man, these guys are so amazing.

00:43:18.700 Well, I'm only, I started squatting 300 pounds less than them.

00:43:22.280 Then it was 200 pounds.

00:43:24.120 Then it was 100 pounds.

00:43:25.380 Then it was like, oh, so this is a thing you could catch people in this world.

00:43:30.460 Like you could do it too.

00:43:32.000 And that changed everything that changed the mindset of everything.

00:43:37.080 And, and that's where I'm, I'm still so appreciative of that experience because that reformulate and recalibrated everything in my being.

00:43:45.180 And then, you know, just, just to be able to look at the differences of that scenario and realize, like, I live with a bunch of Olympians and all Americans.

00:43:57.920 I know what they do and I do the same thing.

00:44:00.420 So eventually let me, give me enough time to catch up and we'll be there.

00:44:04.180 And, uh, that was, that was a huge piece.

00:44:07.600 Yeah.

00:44:07.760 It's, it's interesting.

00:44:09.240 I never have an outline for the things I want to talk about.

00:44:11.620 And we're just here.

00:44:12.260 We know each other well enough.

00:44:13.220 We can just have a really powerful conversation, but we started this off with a phrase you use delusionally passionate. 0.94

00:44:18.020 And then I, and then I hear that story and I'm like, that's it delusional enough, you know, ignorant, dumb enough, whatever you want to call it, but delusional enough to walk in and be like, oh yeah, I'll, I'll do the vertical and see what I can do. 0.85

00:44:28.820 And you put yourself in the right place because there was enough passion. 0.71

00:44:32.660 You know, I think what's interesting is a lot of men will reach out to me and, and, and they'll look at somebody like yourself or maybe even me to a degree, because I found what I like and what I'm passionate about.

00:44:42.480 And it's been successful.

00:44:43.260 And so they'll look at guys like you or me or anybody else, they happen to follow Jocko or any of these amazing people.

00:44:49.560 And, and they say, you know, like, how, how can I find that?

00:44:52.520 And, and the thing I've always told them is you just have to take one step towards something that's interesting to you.

00:44:59.460 But the problem is a lot of these guys will say, well, yeah, but like, but that won't lead anywhere, but I can't make any money, but I've got responsibilities.

00:45:07.720 And all of that might be true, but you'll never be able to develop that greatness until you take that one little delusional step into something that interests you and not really worry too much at this point about the outcome of it.

00:45:20.220 You nailed it, you nailed it, you nailed it, because whether it's you, me, Jocko, Rogan's a perfect example.

00:45:28.280 And I don't necessarily like to put myself in their category, but those hyper successful known, all of them were doing the things that weren't popular and that had no real, like, this is going anywhere.

00:45:44.460 Never for probably the first 10 years, maybe 20, you know, you, you hear Rogan talking about how he was a martial arts instructor in the nineties, you know, who had thought a Bostonian martial art instructor would, would be one of the most powerful voices on the planet.

00:46:00.920 One day, this is preposterous to think this is even a thing, right.

00:46:05.400 Or even like, you know, okay, Jocko wanted to be a seal.

00:46:08.280 Like that's a pretty extraordinary thing, but it's not like he's the only seal ever.

00:46:11.920 You know, there's always like, always that stuff.

00:46:16.220 I mean, I'm kind of like laugh.

00:46:19.780 Who was I talking to?

00:46:21.000 John Wellborn, who I believe you know as well.

00:46:23.200 Yeah.

00:46:23.760 And John's dad told him, his dad was a really very, very smart guy, a lawyer, the whole deal. 0.91

00:46:30.700 And when John was, was weightlifting as a kid, he was just like, weightlifting is so dumb. 0.93

00:46:37.020 What is that ever going to get you? 0.85

00:46:38.720 You need to be working on your studies and be working on school. 0.85

00:46:41.100 Like weightlifting is just a dumb thing, you know?

00:46:43.720 And then John was like a pro bowler for 10 years in the NFL, you know, built a whole business off of training, the whole thing. 0.67

00:46:50.280 And like, same thing.

00:46:51.680 My dad's mom used to yell at my dad's dad because he didn't make my dad get a job during the summertime. 0.73

00:46:59.940 As long as he was training and lifting and old pops would say, no, that is his job.

00:47:06.060 He's doing, she was like, what's that ever going to get him?

00:47:07.880 What's weightlifting ever going to get him?

00:47:10.100 And, but because he was training and weightlifting, he was, got introduced to the discus throw.

00:47:15.880 The discus, he became one of the top guys in the nation that got him a scholarship, which he was the first Soren ever to go to college that changed your trajectory of his entire life.

00:47:25.500 So it was, what's weightlifting going to get him?

00:47:28.600 Oh, I don't know.

00:47:29.820 Generational change.

00:47:31.280 You know, like, you know, I mean, I mean, his, his mom was a maitre d' at a country club and his dad was a bartender.

00:47:39.840 Nothing wrong with it, but I'll, I will argue they weren't chasing their passions, you know?

00:47:47.420 And so it took a guy chasing his passions delusionally.

00:47:51.500 So, um, and my wife laughs all about it.

00:47:54.800 Like our daughter did this, did this, uh, audition last night to try to do this play.

00:48:00.480 And it was so funny.

00:48:01.200 Like she thinks she's like the best in the world at anything until she actually does it with other kids who have actually practiced.

00:48:08.740 And then she kind of has to eat humble pie and realize that, you know, maybe she needs to work a little harder.

00:48:13.220 So that's just kind of early on.

00:48:14.960 But, but Les was laughing.

00:48:16.760 She was like, oh yeah, she's a Soren.

00:48:19.280 And she went into it just thinking she got this, she's like, well, you know, part of that delusion.

00:48:26.160 I was like, well, you got to believe there's a chance to win that that's the, you don't have to think you're the best.

00:48:31.580 You have to believe there's at least, um, there's an avenue, there's an opening.

00:48:35.340 And if all I do is put a ton of effort in, it's going to be more effort than I think.

00:48:39.480 But if you don't believe that ever, like you said, Hey, we'll go after whatever you're doing.

00:48:44.320 Well, I can't really do that.

00:48:45.720 Does it work?

00:48:46.180 Well, then you've just decided it's not going to work right there.

00:48:48.860 Like you, the person has decided right there that that's never going to materialize into anything.

00:48:54.220 And so what I've realized is there's a lot of, how do I say this? 0.81

00:48:59.840 Relatively dumb people, in my opinion, and I'm probably one of them, or are not super talented people that are very successful that just because they believe they could be successful. 0.92

00:49:11.280 And there's a lot of really smart people that don't have the nuts to show up and get in the ring. 1.00

00:49:15.760 So they get beat by the dumb dumbs who showed up. 0.99

00:49:18.860 And it's kind of mean to say it that way. 1.00

00:49:23.020 But I've seen a lot of guys with room temperature IQs that are millionaires.

00:49:27.300 And I'm like, how the heck?

00:49:28.860 I'm like, because he's gun slinging.

00:49:30.480 And he comes out full of bravado and fully getting after it.

00:49:34.520 And he's just going to, if he works hard and believes he can, he's going to be all the people who didn't think they couldn't and didn't work hard for it because those guys ain't showing up.

00:49:42.560 And so it's kind of fun as I've watched this whole thing.

00:49:46.500 I'm like, man, it's not always the geniuses pulling this off.

00:49:50.580 You know, it's where I heard they said the highest percentage of millionaires are one standard deviation above average IQ.

00:50:00.360 So that'd be like what average is 100.

00:50:03.880 So it'd be like 100 to 120.

00:50:05.760 Right.

00:50:06.080 So you're smart.

00:50:07.160 You're not like you're not Mensa.

00:50:08.940 You're smart.

00:50:09.880 Smarter than average.

00:50:10.940 But they have the highest EQ, which means they read situations, they read people, they know how a crowd feels.

00:50:19.940 And so that is the highest combination.

00:50:23.560 One standard deviation higher than IQ with as high of EQ as you get.

00:50:28.260 And it was like, wow, that's a really interesting way to put it.

00:50:30.900 And I would even say that EQ is probably more important than IQ because I've seen a lot of, like I said, knuckleheads living on the lake before I did. 1.00

00:50:40.940 They figured it out, like, because they just went after it.

00:50:44.620 Well, and even from a marketing perspective, you know, I think that your marketing is incredible.

00:50:51.380 You know, Sornex's marketing is next to none.

00:50:54.740 Like it's amazing from the way that your stuff looks to the way you present it.

00:50:59.020 And I think that's a representation of EQ.

00:51:01.360 Like, you know what looks good.

00:51:03.440 You know what these guys want to see.

00:51:05.420 My guys are dialed.

00:51:06.960 Yeah.

00:51:07.100 Because my guys, thank you, first of all, my marketing team is all, my sales guys are all part of my customer base.

00:51:16.280 They are all those people, right?

00:51:18.080 So I'm not having to teach them, hey, this is this and this is that.

00:51:21.900 They're like, this boils down to, what would I buy?

00:51:24.960 What would I want to hear?

00:51:26.120 Like, this is cool, you know?

00:51:28.340 And I hate to say it, hire cool people.

00:51:31.860 Like, they have to be able to work hard. 0.99

00:51:33.840 But if you get a bunch of dorks that don't know cool stuff, like, sorry, I'm not going to buy fashion from a guy that dresses like a clown. 0.99

00:51:40.640 Like, you're telling me right there, like, you don't know what's cool. 0.99

00:51:43.500 Because if you did, you'd do it.

00:51:46.080 So it's like, we kind of laugh.

00:51:48.360 Like, I've had marketing people that came in before, and it sounds so, like, so whatever. 0.88

00:51:54.800 But I'm just saying, they're dressed like a clown.

00:51:57.520 I'm like, you don't know what cool stuff is.

00:51:59.920 We're not on the same vibe.

00:52:01.420 You don't, how are you supposed to take my vision as an owner and the vision of my company and the vision of our tribe and amplify that and magnify that to the masses if it looks like you get dressed in the dark?

00:52:16.840 Like, I don't know.

00:52:18.520 I get, you know, being, you could dress differently and be differently.

00:52:23.100 And I'm going to just say dress because it's not always that visual.

00:52:25.640 But, like, you could be different and still have a swag.

00:52:29.480 Something about you.

00:52:30.440 Yeah.

00:52:30.720 Or something about you, right?

00:52:32.200 Like, a Rudy Reyes.

00:52:33.300 Like, I couldn't pull off how Rudy Reyes dresses.

00:52:35.400 Never.

00:52:35.900 Nobody.

00:52:36.340 Only Rudy can.

00:52:37.340 Only Rudy can, right?

00:52:38.760 But he's like, it was a Roy Schott test.

00:52:42.420 And I was talking to some of my buddies the other day.

00:52:44.040 This is a great, is it Roy Schott, is that the way you pronounce that, the inkblot test?

00:52:48.780 Yeah, Roy Schott, I can't remember.

00:52:51.320 But, yeah, something like that.

00:52:52.500 Pardon my lack of intelligence to be able to.

00:52:55.600 I could be, maybe you're right and I'm wrong.

00:52:58.020 One of us is, or maybe we're both wrong.

00:53:00.080 Who knows?

00:53:00.860 I don't know.

00:53:01.520 But, you know, so they take the inkblot test, right?

00:53:03.260 And they show it to you.

00:53:03.980 And kind of the point of it is you'll see whatever you'll see in it.

00:53:10.180 If it makes you angry, it's because you're probably angry.

00:53:15.180 And so, it's more of a reflection of who you are.

00:53:19.440 And there's people, I was talking with this, with a guy named Michael Burkett.

00:53:23.100 He's my massage therapist for 16 years.

00:53:25.360 Awesome guy.

00:53:26.100 And we have these great conversations.

00:53:27.240 And we're talking about just kind of famous people or influencer style people.

00:53:32.840 And it all boils down, not all, consistently boils down to their Roy Schott test people, i.e., you feel something when you think of them.

00:53:43.740 If I was to say Cameron Haynes, Joe Rogan, Dave Goggins, you know, The Rock, whatever, you feel a certain way.

00:53:52.860 There is no, I don't know who that is, or I don't really care.

00:53:56.680 It's either that guy's awesome or meh, kind of don't like him. 0.89

00:54:00.900 I think he's a douche.

00:54:01.920 Whatever is fine.

00:54:03.300 But the key to those specific people with that harmonics are they make you feel something.

00:54:08.720 And a great brand, a great band, a great person, always, in my opinion, I've kind of started calling it, calling them like the Roy Schott people.

00:54:18.640 It's like, oh, they're going to make you feel something.

00:54:21.540 And like, you know, you run into someone, especially in my generation.

00:54:24.980 Do you like Led Zeppelin?

00:54:26.160 You either love them or hate them.

00:54:27.260 They're not like, okay, you know, because they were so different, right?

00:54:31.380 And so that's the thing.

00:54:32.700 I think there's just certain people on a certain harmonic vibration that, hey, man, just you better make people feel something one way or the other.

00:54:42.300 And if you do, and it's enough people, and you're amplified enough, you're going to have your following.

00:54:46.980 You know, there are certain people that love what you do, and some people don't.

00:54:52.200 Okay.

00:54:53.320 But I know what your brand is.

00:54:54.940 I know who you are.

00:54:55.780 And if I'm still following along, and we're having a conversation, that means I do.

00:55:00.440 I like what you're doing, right?

00:55:02.120 I think so many people hide who they are that they're never actually putting out who they are to the world.

00:55:10.100 And they just kind of get passed by.

00:55:12.900 And they don't make anyone feel either way.

00:55:15.620 Maybe it's not because of them themselves.

00:55:17.740 It's just because they hold it back.

00:55:19.700 Like if someone's trying to sing, and they get nervous, and you hear them cut their voice, and they don't sing.

00:55:25.960 They don't really.

00:55:27.160 You know what I'm saying?

00:55:27.880 It's like I think that's how they live life.

00:55:29.620 And you can even watch it in their posture.

00:55:31.480 Posture will be closed down.

00:55:33.420 Head will be down.

00:55:34.680 And that's their view.

00:55:35.420 That's their inkblot test on life.

00:55:37.180 That's how they view in life.

00:55:38.820 And so that's where there's people who aren't.

00:55:42.040 They automatically attract us because they make us feel something.

00:55:45.980 Wow, that kind of went off on a tangent.

00:55:47.640 Hey, no, it's awesome.

00:55:48.720 It did.

00:55:49.280 We kind of went off a little deviant there.

00:55:52.560 Burt, man, I love our conversations.

00:55:54.760 I love having these conversations.

00:55:56.160 We don't have enough of them.

00:55:57.060 I know you're a busy guy, just like all of us, right?

00:56:00.000 But, man, every time we do, I walk away with some.

00:56:03.580 That's what we need to do.

00:56:04.400 We need to get out on a hunt.

00:56:06.400 You know, to be fair, I have invited you on a few the last couple of times and been turned down.

00:56:12.340 I know.

00:56:13.280 I know.

00:56:13.700 I know.

00:56:14.120 That's why I'm saying it now.

00:56:16.080 That's what you're saying.

00:56:18.940 Yes, let's figure out something because I always feel bad.

00:56:22.360 I don't feel bad.

00:56:23.160 I know you're busy.

00:56:23.680 I'll get you some dates, and we'll pin something down.

00:56:25.320 I already got some dates for next year.

00:56:27.300 That would be great.

00:56:28.260 That would be way cool.

00:56:29.380 So, yeah.

00:56:30.160 So, what's some other stuff?

00:56:31.740 Well, let the guys know where to get a hold of you, where to connect with you, where to learn more, and, yeah, how to find out what you're all about.

00:56:39.400 Yeah.

00:56:39.740 So, probably the easiest.

00:56:41.540 I update Instagram relatively often.

00:56:44.500 I'll be honest.

00:56:44.980 It used to be more.

00:56:46.840 When I was developing my Instagram, it was like, I know I got to do posts this many.

00:56:50.800 Probably like we all heard you got to do it.

00:56:52.620 And I'm just tired.

00:56:55.420 I'm just tired of it.

00:56:56.600 And so, if it hits me and something is interesting enough that I'm excited about, I'll post about it.

00:57:04.960 Or the other thing is, if I'm not so engulfed in actually living the thing, you know, and usually a lot of times I'll post two or three weeks later because it's like, I want to live the thing.

00:57:16.240 I want to do the thing versus every 10 seconds stop because it's been 12 hours and I haven't posted and all that stuff.

00:57:23.460 So, that being said, you could follow at Bert Soren on Instagram, SorenX on Instagram.

00:57:30.240 If you're into the outdoor kind of stuff, the SorenX Outdoors, if you're into squatting and deadlifting, we have Squattober and Deadcember.

00:57:37.380 Deadcember right now.

00:57:39.060 Deadcember right now.

00:57:40.140 Yeah, back's still a little sore that had been deadlifting and did some searchers this morning.

00:57:45.160 And so, yeah, man.

00:57:46.880 It's both sad and I'm proud and a little saddened by the fact that my 15-year-old can now officially out deadlift and out squat me.

00:57:55.600 Not bench yet, but that I'm sure will happen at some point.

00:57:59.080 He's a beast.

00:57:59.600 He's a big kid.

00:58:00.540 How's this podcast going?

00:58:01.920 We haven't done it since we moved back.

00:58:05.320 He's been so busy.

00:58:06.220 He got into powerlifting and then sports and everything else with the dynamic of our situation.

00:58:11.860 So, you know, he's still staying active with sports, but that's about where his – that and the attention of one particular young woman that he's got his eye on occupies most of his time.

00:58:22.760 I understand that.

00:58:23.980 I understand.

00:58:24.560 I did enjoy when you guys were doing it.

00:58:26.480 So, if you get a wild hare and hit one again, know that you at least have one listener.

00:58:30.880 I always enjoy them.

00:58:32.560 Please tell us.

00:58:33.980 I will.

00:58:35.000 Bert, appreciate you, man.

00:58:36.580 Appreciate our friendship and this conversation.

00:58:39.500 So, we'll let the guys know where to go and we'll go from there.

00:58:42.400 So, thanks for joining me, man.

00:58:43.380 I appreciate it.

00:58:44.240 Thanks, Ryan.

00:58:46.600 Gentlemen, there you go.

00:58:47.600 My conversation with Bert Soren found – excuse me, president and co-owner – there we go – of Sorenx exercise equipment and a great friend, a good human being and can tell a really, really good story as you heard.

00:59:01.820 I hope you enjoyed that one.

00:59:03.520 I would highly encourage that you connect with Bert on Instagram.

00:59:07.000 Connect with Sorenx.

00:59:08.140 If you want to get into Deadcember, you can do that as well.

00:59:10.900 Sorenx Outdoors, if you're an avid outdoorsman like I know Bert is.

00:59:14.600 The man's incredible.

00:59:15.680 He's doing good things.

00:59:16.540 He's connecting great people together and if you want to pick up some exercise equipment, then do it from Sorenx.

00:59:22.200 I've got one of their gyms in my garage, including their center mass bells and their weights and they've got it all.

00:59:29.360 You can check it out at Sorenx.com and connect with him when you do.

00:59:34.580 All right, guys.

00:59:35.080 Those are your marching orders in addition to checking out the Iron Council when we open up next week.

00:59:39.260 Until then, go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

00:59:43.680 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

00:59:46.540 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

00:59:50.660 We invite you to join the Order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - December 05, 2023

BERT SORIN ｜ Why Delusionally Passionate Men Win

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