Order of Man - Breaking Bad Habits, Renewing the Mind, and Dealing with Narcissists ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly charge

00:00:04.940 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.340 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:16.980 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.480 you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler.

00:00:27.420 I'm your host and the founder of the Order of Man podcasting movement. I'm glad that you're here.

00:00:32.200 If you've been with us for almost eight years now, welcome back and thank you for being a loyal

00:00:36.020 listener and a plier of this information. That's the most important thing is, yeah,

00:00:42.000 we can listen and we can read books and we can hear from all these guys that we have on the podcast.

00:00:46.540 But at the end of the day, if you're not applying this stuff, what does it matter? I mean,

00:00:49.580 it's just a waste of time. So if you're applying the information and you're becoming a better father,

00:00:53.300 husband, business owner, community leader, man in general, congratulations. And I am appreciative

00:00:58.480 of you. If you're new to what we're doing here, you joined us on a Wednesday show, which is our

00:01:02.940 Ask Me Anything. And we're fielding questions from our exclusive fraternal organization called

00:01:08.380 the Iron Council. We're also going to be fielding some questions from our open Facebook group at

00:01:13.020 facebook.com slash groups slash order of man. Normally I'm joined by my good friend and co-host Kip

00:01:19.000 Sorensen. He was having some technical difficulties today. So we'll excuse him today. We're not going

00:01:24.160 to excuse him next week, but we will excuse him today. And you're just going to hear from me.

00:01:28.300 We've got a lot of questions that came from our Iron Council brothers, and we got a lot of good

00:01:32.220 questions that came from our Facebook group as well. So we'll just jump right into it. Actually,

00:01:37.060 hold on. Before I do that, let me tell you about our battle ready program. This is a free course

00:01:42.120 available. It's 17 emails you're going to receive over 30 days. So if you want to do some work,

00:01:46.800 you want to figure out how to set goals, you want to figure out how to achieve goals and make

00:01:51.000 something different of your life than currently is, then sign up for our free course, orderofman.com

00:01:56.420 slash battle ready. All right, guys, let's jump into the questions. The first one comes from Stefan

00:02:01.640 Serrata. He says, when breaking a bad habit or an addiction, what is better to concentrate on no bad

00:02:09.020 habit slash addiction or on a positive formulation that excludes the bad habit? So the question ultimately is,

00:02:16.560 what is better? Is it better to just say, hey, I'm not going to do this anymore? Or is it better to

00:02:22.340 replace it with something that's more productive? This is a false dichotomy. Classic example of a

00:02:28.300 false dichotomy. It's not an either or. It's really not. And I know maybe in the spirit of the question,

00:02:35.440 no, we're not going to do the spirit of the question thing on this one. You don't need to choose.

00:02:39.260 You can do both and you should do both. You should look at what works for you based on past

00:02:44.940 experience. Does it drive you to say, hey, I'm not going to do this because I know where it leads me

00:02:50.500 and that stick, if you will, is enough? Or do you need a carrot? I'm going to instead replace it with

00:02:56.760 something else that's going to help me live a better life. I don't know what's best for you,

00:03:01.540 but you don't need to have either or. You should be able to look at a situation and say,

00:03:06.440 I know that doesn't serve me. I know that's destructive to my mental, emotional, or physical

00:03:11.000 health. And therefore, I'm going to resist the urge to smoke or to drink or to engage in pornography

00:03:17.140 or to engage in womanizing or to engage in biting my nails or eating like garbage. And that should be 0.99

00:03:25.120 enough because you have a future vision for what you want your life to be and the kind of man that

00:03:29.920 you want to be in that future life. That's an important tool, right? You have another tool,

00:03:35.440 which is instead of drinking alcohol, I'm going to drink seltzer water. When I stopped drinking

00:03:42.260 alcohol, for me, it was drinking a Red Bull. And I know that's not the bad schedule. Oh, you shouldn't

00:03:48.520 drink those. That's better than alcohol, bro. So if that helps me get to a place where I can get rid

00:03:54.060 of that altogether, then by all means, I'm going to take advantage of that. If smoking is your thing

00:03:58.840 and you want to quit smoking, then okay, what are you going to replace it with? Maybe you bring some

00:04:03.140 Tootsie Rolls. I don't know. Smoking is not a thing I've ever dealt with, but maybe you bring

00:04:07.040 some Tootsie Rolls. And instead of putting that cigarette in your mouth, you decided you want a

00:04:10.460 Tootsie Roll or a piece of gum or whatever it might be to eliminate that temptation. So let's not get

00:04:15.920 into false dichotomies. Let's look at all of the tools that we have and use all of the tools that we

00:04:21.300 can to achieve our desired result. Can you imagine a carpenter saying, you know, I don't know what's

00:04:27.340 better. Should I use a hammer or a screwdriver? I don't know. It depends on if you have a nail or a

00:04:31.700 screw. And why can't you have both in your tool belt? You should have both. Our job as men is to

00:04:36.940 build out our repertoire, if you will, our toolkit with as many tools as possible so that we could

00:04:44.500 use the right tool for the right job. And in this case, I would suggest that you need both.

00:04:49.660 Tony Luzny, he's a fireteam leader over on Team Valiant. He says,

00:04:53.740 what are a few of the best objectives and tactics that you've seen that make a huge difference in

00:05:01.520 someone's life? So good that perhaps everyone should do them at least once. Well, if you're

00:05:07.480 not familiar with what a tactic is, a tactic is a daily strategy. It's a daily action item. It's

00:05:15.020 something that you can do every single day to achieve your objective. The beauty of tactics is

00:05:20.900 that when you do these small little things on a daily basis, they compound and they add up.

00:05:26.460 And over time, they're going to produce drastic results in your life. You're going to build

00:05:31.380 relationships. You're going to start businesses. You're going to lose weight. You're going to get

00:05:36.180 more clear about who you are as a man. You're going to be able to identify goals and objectives and

00:05:41.740 dreams and hopes and desires, but it takes time. So that's what a tactic is. The problem with tactics

00:05:49.320 is that they take time. And so you might get up today and you might go work out or you might drink

00:05:54.880 today, a hundred ounces of water, or you might decide to show some level of appreciation for

00:06:01.800 your wife. And you decide to send her a text or write her a letter, write a little note on the mirror

00:06:06.220 or drop some flowers off or have some flowers delivered to her office. Well, guys, that's not

00:06:11.400 going to make a huge difference today if you've been an asshole for the past 12 months. But if you do 1.00

00:06:17.280 that enough over and over and over and over again, then she's going to see that you're serious.

00:06:23.400 Or if it comes to losing weight, then your body's going to start reflecting the changes that you're

00:06:27.420 making. So it isn't a one and done type thing, which is frustrating because you might wake up today

00:06:32.940 and say, well, I really want to change. And so you do all the right things today and you see zero results

00:06:39.640 from the changes. So to Tom's question here, what are a few of the best objectives and tactics?

00:06:48.560 I think it's more important that you realize that consistency is key. Okay. We all know what's right.

00:06:55.420 We all know how to eat correctly. I mean, it's amazing to see some of these fitness accounts and

00:06:59.700 they have millions of followers. I'm like, why? Everybody knows what to do. Why do I have a business?

00:07:04.620 Why is the order of man a movement? Because everybody knows what to do. Why do I have this

00:07:10.760 business? Why do fitness people exist? Why do life coaches exist? Because even though we know what to

00:07:17.320 do, we struggle when it comes to application. So guys, the most important thing is not necessarily

00:07:22.760 what you're doing. You already know what to do. It's that you can do it consistently day in and day out

00:07:28.340 forever. We have a 90 day battle plan. So guys think, well, if I can do this for 90 days, I win.

00:07:33.900 Or you look at programs like 75 hard. If I do this for 75 days, I win. What happens on day 76?

00:07:40.320 What happens on day 91? And that's not to diminish what we've created or what Andy Frisilla with 75

00:07:45.600 hard has created, but what happens on the very next day? I've talked with hundreds of people,

00:07:52.600 if not thousands of people at this point who have gone through 75 hard and guess what they do on day 76? 1.00

00:07:57.580 They go out and they get shit faced or they go out and they eat like a freaking pig. 0.99

00:08:05.220 Okay. Well, congratulations on the past 75 days. Now what? Now you just go back to the slob and the pig 1.00

00:08:13.680 that you were being before? I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in lifelong improvement. 0.99

00:08:18.880 And I'm not taking away again from any of these programs. They're a kickstart. But if that's the

00:08:22.440 end of your self-development, that's a problem. It should be the beginning of your journey.

00:08:27.980 So yeah, I mean, I could tell you like journaling has been valuable for me. Reading has been valuable

00:08:32.980 for me. Daily exercise has been valuable for me. Eating correctly has been productive for me.

00:08:41.240 All the things you already know how to do. I wish I could give you a better answer and say,

00:08:44.980 these three magical things that nobody's ever heard of or talked about before,

00:08:48.360 but that isn't the reality. Just go do the things that you know you should be doing forever.

00:08:53.980 All right. Derek Gordon, without giving away any trade secrets, what in the way of innovation is

00:08:59.100 going on in the Order of Man Iron Council? What are things that are no longer serving us that we are

00:09:03.980 getting rid of and what things are going to change in order to improve and what new things are going to

00:09:08.780 be tested to move towards the next season? I mean, Derek, look, you're part of it. You know,

00:09:12.220 last week, we opened up the Iron Council for the very first time to the public. And so we had,

00:09:18.720 I think, close to 150 visitors on that call. And that's something. We're introducing new courses

00:09:26.360 and programs that are available. We've got a... In fact, I've got it pulled up here. We've got a

00:09:31.720 marriage course. We've got an overcoming pornography addiction. We're putting a nutrition course in

00:09:37.500 right now. So the courses are going to be big. The way we onboard new members, most programs like

00:09:44.180 the things that I've seen or the things that we're doing, basically, they just get you to sign up and

00:09:48.460 then you're supposed to follow one guy and worship him and pretend he's God. And it's all centered

00:09:52.320 around this false idol. We don't do that in the Iron Council. What we do is enlist other men who have

00:10:00.020 things to share above and beyond what me, Ryan Mickler, might be able to share. And so we do that

00:10:04.760 through courses and programs and topical channels with moderators that aren't me. We have other

00:10:10.980 people coming in to discuss ideas and topics and strategy. I mean, we're so far ahead of the curve.

00:10:18.280 It's unreal. I mean, it really is. You're going to pay a bunch of money and you're going to go

00:10:22.660 listen to some guy yap at you for an hour a day. And then you're supposed to talk with each other

00:10:26.780 with no structure or system in place. And the things that we're doing are structured.

00:10:31.420 One other thing that we're going to be doing is not only exclusively for the Iron Council,

00:10:34.580 but for Order of Man is next year, we're going to do a men's summit, right? There's all sorts of

00:10:38.420 men's events and things like that. We're going to do this thing right. I did one last year and it

00:10:42.780 was a good start to what I want to do, but we're taking this thing to the next level. I'm talking

00:10:46.840 about 500, 600, 700, 800, 900 guys all together over one weekend with powerful speakers, powerful

00:10:54.140 instruction, powerful activities to get us to work and get us learning how we can apply this information.

00:11:00.080 So we're always looking at ways to innovate, ways to improve. I'm not the center of the universe.

00:11:07.500 I'm not the center of this movement. I'm here to facilitate. And that's the difference in what

00:11:11.820 you're going to find between what we're doing and what all these other men's guys are doing.

00:11:16.040 They want to be the center of it. Like, look at me, look how wonderful, look how great I am,

00:11:19.920 like follow me, do what I do, and you're going to figure it all out. I just don't believe that's

00:11:24.080 the case. I can help facilitate. I can help lead. I have a vision for what we're doing here.

00:11:30.500 I'm fairly organized and structured and can see things in a way that a lot of people can't. But

00:11:34.720 at the end of the day, I don't have all the answers. And my job is to help bring the right

00:11:38.400 guys in, put them into the right places so that I can serve you. Good question, Derek.

00:11:43.860 George Sykes, do you have a daily mind renewal practice? I got to stop right there. Like these are

00:11:49.800 buzzwords. I don't know what a mind renewal practice means. So let's go on. Maybe there's

00:11:55.660 an answer here. Oh, Casey does clarify. As the Bible talks about in Romans 12.2, if so, what is it?

00:12:02.420 I don't know what Romans 12.2 is. Let's see. Oh, he put a link. George, look at you. Romans 12.2,

00:12:08.340 and this is in the NIV version. I don't even know what that stands for. Oh, new international version.

00:12:12.340 It's not what I use. King James version is typically what I use. Do not conform to the patterns of this

00:12:18.840 world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve

00:12:24.240 what God's will is, his good, pleasing, and perfect will. Again, it doesn't really give me a whole lot

00:12:29.660 of information. Maybe there's some context there that I need to look at. But again, the question is,

00:12:35.580 pull it up here. Do I have a daily mind renewal practice? Let me go on and see what he says here.

00:12:41.500 I recently heard of a great and simple practice from Mark Driscoll of real faith and in beginning to

00:12:46.020 incorporate that into my daily life. He says to take a sheet of paper and put two columns on it.

00:12:50.440 On the left, put lies and list all of the twisted crap that comes from our minds and hearts under 0.98

00:12:55.880 that. And on the right, put truth and list quotes from the word of God that combats the lies and 0.95

00:13:02.260 meditate on those. Yeah, that sounds good. I like that. I just journal. And that's one thing I've

00:13:08.540 started to do. I've got my journal right here, my little red journal. And every day I'm going in there

00:13:14.140 and writing the things that I believe and writing the things that I've heard and writing the lessons

00:13:18.140 that I've learned and evaluating my day and figuring out where I can improve. That's been valuable.

00:13:23.540 Another thing, and I don't know if this would fall under mind renewal practice necessarily,

00:13:27.720 but another thing that I do is I consult with good, successful men in different areas of life.

00:13:33.480 Family men, businessmen, entrepreneurs, marketers, sales guys, athletes, scholars,

00:13:39.900 warriors, New York times, bestselling authors. I'm fortunate in that I have the best people on

00:13:44.580 the planet talking with me about what they're doing on a daily basis. And I'm telling you journaling

00:13:48.280 reflection, reading from some of the greatest minds the worlds have ever known. These are all

00:13:54.600 practices that I do on a daily basis, writing and reading the Bible sometimes, or we just released a

00:14:02.120 podcast with John Deloney, the books over there. We've got another podcast coming out with Michael

00:14:05.680 Easter on the scarcity brain. So guys, it's, it's all there. Um, and you know what I do? I read,

00:14:11.220 I journal, I reflect, um, we do the after action review. I do my battle plan and I'm pretty religious

00:14:15.820 about all of those things. And so I'm not sure George, if that falls into daily mind renewal

00:14:20.760 practice, but I do like what Mark Driscoll says, which I've reached out to Mark and hopefully we can

00:14:24.880 get a podcast going about the lies and truth. I like that. James Knox Jr. He's brand new to the

00:14:31.580 iron council. He says, if you had a physically crippling condition, how would you continue to

00:14:35.800 contribute to those around you? And how would your leadership be affected? Well, my leadership would

00:14:41.240 definitely be affected because I do, I'm trying to be very honest on this question. Um, I do pride

00:14:46.000 myself on being a man of value. I do pride myself on being physically fit and strong and capable of

00:14:52.160 doing things. Fortunately, knock on wood. I've never had to deal with a physically crippling

00:14:58.380 condition. Now I have had some minor injuries. I've had a surgery on my pec and had to deal with

00:15:03.580 that for about three months and felt pretty useless, but there were still things that I could

00:15:07.540 do. Um, but I will say this, James, if the physical component of a man's contribution to society's all

00:15:15.440 that he offers, that's bad news because you could very easily get injured, hung up, hurt, die.

00:15:24.520 I, our physical bodies are the weakest part of who we are, or at least it should be because your mind

00:15:29.180 should be the strongest. And what are you doing to provide emotional, mental, physical, or excuse me,

00:15:34.860 not physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual support to the people that you care about.

00:15:39.140 You know, if you're dealing with a physically crippling condition and people see that your

00:15:43.180 mind is strong and that you're working through your condition and you're trying to improve and get

00:15:46.740 better and add value, then that's a valuable part of life. That's a value that they can see

00:15:51.500 and improve. If you're giving guidance and direction and instruction, if you're teaching

00:15:55.560 people how to overcome hardship and heartache and adversity because of what you might be dealing

00:16:00.040 with from a physical perspective, that's a value add. Guys, there's so much more to add to this world

00:16:06.520 than our paycheck or what we can do physically. It's mental, it's emotional, it's spiritual.

00:16:13.140 Your kids are looking, for example, for guidance, direction, instruction, discipline. You can still

00:16:19.600 offer those if you have a physically crippling condition. In fact, you might be even a better

00:16:24.260 example because they're going to see that dad in this case is really struggling physically and yet

00:16:29.060 he's still up every morning. He's still reading books. He still joins us for dinner. He's still

00:16:34.060 having conversations with us. He's still going around and living his life and pursuing his dreams

00:16:38.860 and desires and ambitions. That's powerful. You take a healthy man that's doing that, that's powerful.

00:16:44.280 You take a guy who's physically unhealthy or unwell and he's still doing that, that's even more

00:16:49.040 powerful. So when you ask a question like this, all I can help but think is you're limiting yourself

00:16:54.420 and your value to what you physically add to your environment. That is a component. I don't want to

00:16:59.280 make any qualms about it. That is a component, but it's not the only component. And there's other ways

00:17:04.440 to add value in your life. Al Petroni, what is the most pivotal moment in moving on from the divorce?

00:17:12.220 Any advice to shake the lingering regret asking for a friend? Don't ever say that, by the way.

00:17:16.820 It's one of my least favorite phrases. I'm asking for a friend. I know it's a joke,

00:17:20.620 but let's own it. I'm asking for me. I know, again, I know it's a joke. I know it's meant to

00:17:27.760 be lighthearted, but that's one of the, that's a pet peeve of mine. I'm asking for a friend.

00:17:31.400 Ask for yourself. That's what men need to do. We need to ask more questions. We need to

00:17:36.100 be curious. We need to turn to other people who might have ideas. And that's what you're doing,

00:17:41.060 Al. So I'm glad you're here, but I just want to throw that out there. That is one of my pet

00:17:44.060 pees. I'm asking for a friend. The other one, and I hear this a lot is I lost all my guns in

00:17:49.020 a boating accident. You didn't lose shit in a boating accident. Stop saying that. All right. 0.99

00:17:53.620 As men, we're going to be assertive. And the language that we use is important. I know we're

00:17:58.900 joking, but also if you're joking about it, then there might be some element of truth to it, which

00:18:04.220 is like, I'm a little hesitant and scared of asking this question, or I don't want people to know I

00:18:09.060 have guns. Like guys, we're men. We need to exert ourselves more. If I don't know how to do

00:18:14.300 something, I'm not embarrassed to ask. Like if there's a new activity or hobby or interest or

00:18:18.980 book or whatever, and I don't know anything about it, I'm going to ask, like, how do you do this?

00:18:22.940 I have a, I have a, um, a neighbor. His name is Bo. It's a great guy, very successful, good family,

00:18:29.180 man, just a good human being in general. And, uh, we're doing some landscaping out in my front yard.

00:18:34.600 And, uh, we were doing some landscaping this weekend. And he said, uh, he's like,

00:18:39.220 why don't you hop up in the loader? And this is a big loader. Okay. I don't, I don't know

00:18:42.360 exactly what it is. Cause I'm not privy to all of that stuff. Cause I didn't really have an

00:18:45.600 experience with it growing up. And he's like, why don't you hop in the loader and, uh, go move

00:18:49.380 this gravel. I don't, I don't know what to do with that. Now, look, here's the problem. A lot of guys

00:18:55.440 would be like, well, you don't know how to draw it. Some of you guys are saying it right now. You don't

00:18:58.340 know how to drive a load. No, I don't because I've never done it before. See, that's the problem

00:19:03.360 with men. In fact, is that like, we don't know how to do something. And so you go out and you,

00:19:10.620 you're, you're honest and you're humble about it. Like, Hey, I don't know how to do that.

00:19:14.300 And then you get mocked and ridiculed for asking like this stupid. If a guy's asking you about 1.00

00:19:19.180 something, like instead of making them feel like a fool, like teach them how to do it.

00:19:23.480 So I told Bo, I said, I would love to do that, but I don't, I don't know how to do that. Can you teach

00:19:27.880 me? I said, yeah, sure. So we jumped up in the loader. He's like, all right, here's this button.

00:19:32.280 Here's this, here's how to turn it on. Here's how to put in gear. Here's how to lower the bucket.

00:19:35.100 Here's how to raise it up. And like, cool. So I went and did it and learned something new and

00:19:40.320 tried something different. And we had a good time and I didn't kill anybody or run into anything.

00:19:43.700 So, you know, it went well, but guys like enough, like let's just exert ourselves. Hey, I don't know

00:19:49.260 how to do that. Can you tell me? Or I have this question. I'm not asking for a friend. I'm asking for

00:19:52.560 me. Like I have this question because it's a concern of mine. So anyways, maybe I blew that out of the

00:19:56.560 water. But anyways, just wanted to throw that out there. What was the biggest, or excuse me,

00:20:02.640 what was the most pivotal moment in moving on from the divorce? It was when I said it was over.

00:20:08.480 Let me reword that. It was when I acknowledged that it was over. I didn't say it was over. In fact,

00:20:16.500 I didn't want to get divorced. That was not my idea. And I spent a very long time pouring everything

00:20:21.500 that I possibly could into the marriage in hopes of salvaging the damaged relationship.

00:20:29.100 And no matter what I did, it just, it wasn't, it wasn't happening. So the most pivotal moment for me

00:20:37.540 was coming to the conclusion and realization that it was time to close that chapter of the book.

00:20:44.460 I didn't want to, I resisted for a long time. I hesitated. I felt like a failure. I felt a lot

00:20:52.240 of guilt and shame. And I still feel those things occasionally, not nearly as much as I did a year

00:20:57.900 ago, but I still feel those things occasionally. But you know what? Life is pretty good. I'm developing

00:21:04.200 and building a better relationship with my kids. I'm reevaluating what I'm looking for in a woman. 1.00

00:21:08.820 I'm reevaluating what my life is going to look like and how I envision my life to go.

00:21:16.200 I'm journaling. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm reading good books. I'm getting back to the basis.

00:21:21.440 I stopped drinking. Like there's a lot of things that I did that, that have just made life better.

00:21:28.500 And for me, it was just putting a period on the end of the sentence of marriage and realizing this is

00:21:34.480 done. I don't want it to be this way. I wish it wasn't this way, but it is an operating in reality

00:21:41.260 and started to move on, started to date, started to build my life. Like I'm in a different home and

00:21:48.420 started to rebuild the podcast and the movement and started to have different discussions. There's a lot

00:21:52.620 more empathy and kindness and compassion in my voice. I think hopefully you guys can hear that

00:21:58.860 because I've been humbled. I can see things in a new way, but for me, you know, there's only so

00:22:05.360 much a guy can do. And I came to the realization that as much as I wanted to control the inevitable

00:22:11.620 outcome of what we were doing, it wasn't within my control. And with regards to my divorce, I can

00:22:19.580 walk away now. And I have walked away because I've closed that chapter of the book with a clean

00:22:26.300 conscious. I did everything I could to salvage the marriage. I did everything I possibly knew

00:22:32.340 what to do. I did everything that I could and it wasn't enough, but that's not on me.

00:22:41.000 The part that's on me is doing everything that I could. So I can hold my head up high. And especially

00:22:45.780 as I date, you know, women ask me like, why'd you go through, why'd you, what happened when you're

00:22:49.500 divorced and why that happened and how did you handle it? And I can have an honest discussion about it

00:22:54.360 because I did what needed to be done and I did it right. And I treated my ex-wife with a level of

00:23:00.960 respect that I think she deserves, a baseline level of respect that she deserves, but that wasn't my

00:23:06.520 decision. So that's what moved the needle most for me. Also dating, you know, dating helped. And look,

00:23:14.200 it's easy to sedate ourselves. I'm not saying go out there and get laid and chase a bunch of women 0.99

00:23:18.440 around, but, you know, realizing that there's other women out there, realizing that there's incredibly 0.97

00:23:23.860 beautiful and amazing women that you can be involved with. That helped. And then just getting 0.88

00:23:30.440 busy with my own personal development. I think those were the three pivotal moments, closing the

00:23:34.760 chapter, dating other women, and then just focusing on my own personal development for myself, not for

00:23:42.260 her, not for the kids, not for anybody else, but for me, that's what I needed to do. All right, Al,

00:23:47.440 I hope that helps, man. Sounds like maybe you're, you're dealing with that. And I, and if that's the

00:23:51.320 case, I'm sorry, I know how hard it can be. Jarrett Silverback Storrell says, how would you work with a

00:23:57.740 narcissist? They don't believe that any of the problems they've created are theirs and they don't

00:24:03.120 want to take responsibility for them. What tactics would you use to helping them see the issues?

00:24:10.220 I would try to help them not necessarily overcome their narcissism because that's what we have a

00:24:15.000 tendency to do. And I think that actually might be a little narcissistic in itself. Like I can be the

00:24:20.120 savior. I can be the white knight in my latest book, the masculinity manifesto. I talked about why we help

00:24:26.440 people. And too often it's not for the inherent good of helping others. It's, it's not altruistic. It's

00:24:32.940 for our own benefit. Like I will feel good. I'll feel like the white knight. I will have rescued the 0.58

00:24:38.860 damsel in distress. So it had nothing to do with the damsel in distress and more to do with us being the

00:24:43.720 hero of the story. I'm not saying that's necessarily wrong, but let's get our motives right. And that's

00:24:49.160 typically what it is. So it might be a little bit narcissistic to actually think that you can

00:24:56.360 change a narcissist. What makes you think you're going to be the one to do it? This person's 40

00:25:02.260 years old or slightly younger, slightly older, but they've been around on the planet for decades.

00:25:06.960 What makes you think you're going to be the one to change this person? Probably not going to happen.

00:25:13.060 So we need to take a different approach. And what is that approach? Service. One of service.

00:25:19.580 All right. You need to earn trust with this person. And by the way, let me just throw this out here.

00:25:24.540 I'm not really going to work with a narcissist unless I have to, like, I'm not going to bring

00:25:28.600 narcissistic women, for example, into my life. Like this is not something I'm going to do. 1.00

00:25:33.200 I'm not going to business, become a business partner with somebody who's narcissistic. This is 0.72

00:25:37.560 not something I'm going to do. I'm not going to be a friend or engage in hobbies or activities

00:25:41.600 with a narcissist. I'm just not going to do it. But there are circumstances where you got to work

00:25:47.500 with an a-hole. So what do you do? Serve. Guys, that is the foundation of the value that we add

00:25:56.080 and the fulfillment that we enjoy is our ability to add value to people's lives, whether they're

00:26:01.620 a narcissist or not, whether they deserve it or don't deserve it. What matters is that you're adding

00:26:06.500 value. So what does a narcissist want? To feel important, to feel special, to feel valued.

00:26:13.100 Just like all of us, by the way, I want to feel important. I want to feel special. I want to feel

00:26:18.040 valued. Am I narcissistic in my approach to it? I hope not. But that doesn't mean that my approach

00:26:24.300 is flawless. So a narcissist is actually after the same things that you are. And sometimes we can feed

00:26:30.400 into that in a healthy way. I say healthy because I'm not telling you to get trampled on.

00:26:34.840 I'm not telling you to take one for the team. I'm not telling you to be abused emotionally,

00:26:42.540 mentally, spiritually, physically, verbally at the hands of somebody, a narcissist. I'm not saying

00:26:47.340 any of that. I'm just saying, you know what that person's after. Serve them and help them because

00:26:52.260 what that's ultimately going to do is it's going to build trust between you two. And the more that

00:26:58.260 you serve and the more you help and the more you advocate for this person's redeeming qualities,

00:27:04.100 the more they're going to look at you and think, man, in this case, Jarrett, this Jarrett guy,

00:27:09.780 he's different. He's been helpful. He's been courteous. He's been supportive. And then maybe

00:27:16.000 when you build that trust and you break down some of those walls, or at least take the bricks down,

00:27:20.440 some of the bricks off of the wall, maybe then will that person listen? Because they know you've put

00:27:27.000 enough emotional deposits into the friendship or the relationship bank account. And so maybe at that

00:27:32.780 point, it's time for a withdrawal, which is, Hey, Jarrett, you know, man, I really want to see

00:27:37.420 you succeed and win. I hope that, I hope that my, my help and assistance is, has moved you towards

00:27:42.840 those goals. Um, I found, I came across something that I thought would be interesting to you. Maybe

00:27:47.740 it's an article, or maybe it's this podcast, or, you know, maybe it's a message, or maybe it's a text

00:27:52.360 or a quote and you just pass it to him. Like, I just found this to be interesting. And, uh, a great book

00:27:57.640 is extreme ownership. Hey, I found this book to be interesting. I was having a hard time taking extreme

00:28:02.780 and this book really helped me. You might be interested in this because this is a really

00:28:05.760 powerful book, but you can do that once you've built trust. If you don't, the walls are up and

00:28:10.900 they're just going to look at it and think that you're trying to undermine them or take advantage

00:28:14.320 of them because they're hurt, right? Narcissists are hurt. They're hurt from past experiences and

00:28:19.400 other people taking advantages of them. So what do they do? They build up walls and they look after

00:28:23.380 themselves. I'm going to get mine. I'm going to worry about me and everybody else can deal with their

00:28:28.540 own. That, that sounds like a hurt person. That's what a narcissist would say. 0.61

00:28:31.840 Okay. All right. Let's go to Richard Ray for zero zero eight. So another new member of the iron

00:28:37.160 council, he says, I'm coming up on a year since my dad passed and I'm still working through the red

00:28:41.880 tape of the estate stuff, but nearing the end of that, that's going to feel good. It feels like it

00:28:47.100 has stunted my grief process through it. And I've kind of been given the patriarch, a patriarch baton,

00:28:53.680 which I'm honored by that role. My question is, as you and Kip have both experienced this loss as

00:29:00.260 well, what did you do find helpful in processing through the grief? Uh, I know that everyone has

00:29:06.040 a different relationship with their dad and that can affect a lot of how a person deals with it,

00:29:10.180 but just looking for some input, by the way, I had a great relationship with him

00:29:13.780 and it was healthy beyond words. Thank you guys. Look, Richard, I'm glad you guys had a great

00:29:18.300 relationship. I had a very strained relationship with my father. So I don't, I don't know that my

00:29:24.720 advice is going to help you. But for me, the best thing I could do is to compartmentalize his death,

00:29:29.880 his life, and our relationship. His death, it was his death. It's just, it's part of life. Um,

00:29:35.840 I don't, I don't feel like because somebody dies, I need to grieve unnecessarily. Um, I don't feel like

00:29:42.500 I need to hang onto that forever. Uh, I don't feel like that I can't live and enjoy my life because

00:29:48.620 somebody else's life is gone. Like that isn't something that I'm, I'm going to do now. Granted,

00:29:55.080 I haven't dealt with a lot of death in my life. I've had some friends die and I've had my father

00:29:59.780 die, but you know, not a lot to be honest. And I'm grateful for that. And at some point that will

00:30:04.720 come, but I know I'm going to die. You're going to die. Everybody's going to die. And if their death 0.99

00:30:12.840 is what pushes me over the edge into despair and depression or not being able to grieve correctly,

00:30:18.960 I probably gave that person too much weight. And that might be interesting to hear, especially

00:30:24.300 because you had a great relationship with your father. It sounds like I didn't. So I, I can say

00:30:28.640 that because his life didn't really impact my life as much as maybe your father's has for you. Um,

00:30:37.800 one thing I did is I, I began to take my father off the pedestal that I had placed him on. And that

00:30:42.600 was actually a very gracious thing for me to do. It was hard for me to do, but it was,

00:30:48.020 it was a good thing because then I started to recognize and see him for the human that he was

00:30:52.460 the flaws and the, the, the, the tainted issues and the little tarnish on there. I started to see

00:30:58.580 that maybe he wasn't a horrible person as I maybe thought at some points in my life that he was just

00:31:04.340 a human. And as I go through my own personal experiences and some I do really well, and some I

00:31:09.560 absolutely flop on, I'm starting to find some more empathy for my father who's passed away

00:31:15.820 and realize, you know what, he was dealing with his stuff too. So that's one element, another element

00:31:21.320 of it. And I really liked this framing because it's only just framing, right? We have experiences,

00:31:26.200 which are objective. The experience is the experience. And then we have our perspective

00:31:32.320 of it. So an example might be that you're driving down the road and the speed limit 65,

00:31:35.980 and you're going 75 miles an hour. And the police officer pulls you over and he says,

00:31:41.120 sir, do you know why I pulled you over? And you said, yeah, yeah, I don't know. Or yeah,

00:31:44.440 I know I was going a little bit over the speed limit. Now his story is, Hey, I'm trying to serve

00:31:48.600 and protect, right? I'm trying to keep the road safe so that nobody gets hurt. That's his story.

00:31:53.760 And my story, if I get pulled over might be, Hey, uh, you know, I'm really trying to get to work.

00:31:59.380 I'm running late and there's a deadline. And so I got to be there. Okay. Same exact situation.

00:32:05.820 75 and a 65. Those are the facts, but the interpretation of those facts is different

00:32:10.700 based on which lens it's being viewed through. I'm justified in my own mind. Cause I'm late for

00:32:14.980 work. I got to get there on time. He's justified in his mind of pulling you over and potentially

00:32:19.160 writing you a ticket because he's trying to keep the road safe. So who's wrong? Who's right? Well,

00:32:23.520 it's just an interpretation of the facts. So if we look at the example with your father,

00:32:30.060 uh, you know, the facts are that in this case, it sounds like he was there and he was present and

00:32:35.260 he was available and he was good to you. And the interpretation of that is that you should be that,

00:32:41.140 or that he should do certain things or should behave a certain way because you placed him on this

00:32:47.800 elevated pedestal. And once I took my father off the pedestal, I realized he does have flaws. He

00:32:53.440 does have weaknesses and it's okay. It doesn't make them less than, but the other thing, and I like

00:32:58.620 this framing, this is what, at the point I was making and getting to is that you can honor his

00:33:04.580 life and his dedication and commitment to you. If you take his lessons and you apply those in your

00:33:11.780 life, he is still within you. I love that line of, uh, lion King where, uh, Simba, the baboon tells

00:33:21.340 him to go look because Mufasa is still alive and he tells him to go look in the pond and he looks

00:33:26.300 and Simba says, Oh, that's just my reflection. He's like, no, look again, look harder. And he looks

00:33:30.500 again and he sees his father. He's like, right. Your father lives in you. So you can keep your

00:33:36.520 father's legacy alive. You can keep the relationship alive. Even though your father is dead, you can keep

00:33:44.200 it alive by being the kind of man he wanted you to become. And by the way, we don't want to do it for

00:33:49.960 our father. That's not a good motive. You want to do it for you. He gifted that to you. He sacrificed

00:33:57.540 for you. He made concessions for you and his life. And so we need to want to take that and then to

00:34:06.380 carry it and move it forward and then pass it on to the generations from here. So I realize you're

00:34:11.020 dealing with some estate shit and the, and the red tape and all the bullshit. And it is, I mean, I'm, 0.99

00:34:15.860 I'm, I'm trying to be a little bit better about my swearing, but that is, that stuff's all bullshit. 0.95

00:34:21.040 I know because I was in the financial planning business for nearly a decade. I know how horrible 0.98

00:34:24.660 it can be. So you'll get that stuff taken care of. But in the meantime, honor his legacy by living

00:34:30.280 his life, but also acknowledge that he wasn't perfect and he had flaws and he did the best that

00:34:35.100 he can do. And now it's your turn to do the same. Brett Huber. How do I advise a friend who's

00:34:40.260 struggling? His relationships are being harmed due to his use of alcohol. He doesn't want to attend AA

00:34:46.420 or other addiction problems. He doesn't see the value in getting together with others to

00:34:50.920 commiserate their addiction. It seems like that would be an important first step, but I don't have

00:34:56.280 experience in this to draw from your perspective and advice are appreciated. Stop, right? Just stop.

00:35:03.560 This is different advice than I'd give you in the past. Your job is not to rescue your friend.

00:35:08.460 In fact, he doesn't want to be rescued. He doesn't even think there's a problem

00:35:11.620 based on this quick two paragraphs you wrote. So if he doesn't acknowledge there's a problem,

00:35:16.900 what are you possibly going to say? And also consider this, if he doesn't believe there's

00:35:20.840 a problem and every time you guys get together and you start poking at him and pointing out problems,

00:35:25.300 how enjoyable is that for him? How much longer will he want to have conversations with you?

00:35:30.500 Because now it just feels like nagging. He doesn't see the problem. What are you going to do

00:35:36.080 if he doesn't see the problem? Now I know we as men want to ward off and we want to protect and we

00:35:41.600 want to serve and we want to add value in people's lives. You know how you do that? You just be a good

00:35:46.240 friend to him regardless of the substance abuse. Now you should bring it up. And I've talked about

00:35:51.580 this in the past. So if his name is Bob, Bob, look, brother, I love you. I really do. And man,

00:35:59.220 I care about you. And we've been friends for a long time and you're, you're screwing up. Like I 0.72

00:36:04.480 see you, I see you drinking. I see, I see what's going on and your family's not happy. You don't

00:36:11.320 look great physically. You look, you look bad. Your business is suffering. How's your finances?

00:36:16.580 Your finances might be suffering. Like you should bring these things up. Okay. That's your job as a

00:36:20.980 man is to bring that up. And because you care about him more than you care about the relationship,

00:36:24.280 like you care about that person more than you actually care about your potential relationship

00:36:28.740 with him. Cause you're putting it at risk when you say something like that, but it sounds like

00:36:32.380 Brett, you've already done that. You've already brought it up to him. And if you haven't, I would

00:36:35.940 now he knows where you stand and you may drop it periodically, but outside of that, man, invite him,

00:36:42.300 invite him, invite him to a barbecue where there's no alcohol, invite him to the game where you don't

00:36:48.160 drink, invite him into your life. Fellowship him, as I would say, get him around other good people

00:36:55.620 who don't drink, who do engage in good behavior, behavior that's going to serve them over the long

00:37:02.160 run. I'm not saying drinking is bad necessarily, but for him, for me, it was, you know, it got out

00:37:06.660 of hand and it sounds like it is for him as well. So what I would do is I would just support him.

00:37:10.860 I would be there. I'd be available. I'd make, I'd make some comments and that's it. And occasionally

00:37:15.740 I would drop something in. I'd never do it passively, aggressively. Like, oh man, if you

00:37:19.220 wouldn't drink, you wouldn't have this problem. I'd never do anything like that. Cause that's

00:37:22.680 nagging. That's nitpicking, nagging behavior. That's not behavior that men engage in. We address

00:37:28.020 it. Hey, Bob, I love you, but man, you got to stop drinking. You're a real asshole to be around.

00:37:32.740 I love you. I want to be around you, but I'm not going to be around you. If you're going to be a 1.00

00:37:35.400 dickhead all the time. Okay. That's how men engage. Women are more likely to say, oh, well, you know, 1.00

00:37:40.520 if you wouldn't drink, then you wouldn't have such a temperament. Okay. That's not a,

00:37:43.940 that's not a great way to approach another man because it's passive. It's weak. Instead. It's

00:37:50.440 like, Bob, let me sit down, man. I love you. I care about you. I want you to win. I want you to

00:37:56.260 succeed. You've got a beautiful wife. You've got three kids. You've got all these things going on

00:37:59.420 and you're drinking and you turn into a real dickhead. Your wife doesn't want to be around 1.00

00:38:03.360 you. Your kids can't stand you. And I don't enjoy our time together. Now I love you and I care about

00:38:07.920 you. I want to spend time with you, man. You need to hear the truth and then fellowship him.

00:38:14.220 Be a brother, care about him, love him, support him. That's how I would do it. It's hard when you

00:38:19.780 see somebody you care about struggling and you, you just want to like bang them over the head with 0.94

00:38:24.100 a frying pan or something. You know, they just, they just don't get it, but it's their life.

00:38:29.020 All right, let's go to Adam Lewis. He says in the theme with the power of moments, which happens to be

00:38:34.140 the monthly topic we're talking about for the month of October. He says, what are your defining moments

00:38:39.040 of your BJJ journey or my jujitsu journey? We have, and can, oh, excuse me, what have,

00:38:44.200 or can you do to recreate that power in other moments of your life? Um, so my defining moments

00:38:49.320 in jujitsu or when I started, that's a defining moment. Uh, when I got my blue belt was a defining

00:38:54.260 moment because I realized I was progressing and getting better. And then also when I got injured,

00:38:58.240 that was a defining moment because it changed its trajectory of my jujitsu training. Um, all right.

00:39:04.880 So what can I learn from those experiences in other aspects of my life? Let's take the first one,

00:39:10.260 starting something. How many of us want to start a business? How many of us want to ask a woman on a 1.00

00:39:15.260 date? How many of us want to ask for a woman's hand in marriage? How many of us want to get that 1.00

00:39:19.320 new client? How many of us want to try a new skill, hobby, or whatever it may be? Just start.

00:39:24.560 You're going to look foolish. You're going to look dumb. You're going to feel awkward. You're going to 1.00

00:39:27.660 feel out of place. You're going to mess up. You're going to have a lot of, uh, screw ups along the

00:39:31.800 way. So what just start, we put too much weight on it. Oh, well, what if I don't? Yeah. What if you

00:39:37.600 don't, then you just go back to the guy that you were before. That's easy. That's your default.

00:39:41.660 You can always slip back to that. What if you do, what if it does get better? What if it does improve?

00:39:46.800 What if life gets better because you're engaged in this new thing? Uh, the blue belt, that was the next 1.00

00:39:51.240 moment I talked about. Well, in that moment, it's about celebrating the wins. It's about looking at your

00:39:55.480 growth and your progress. You get that new client. You start that new business. You hurt, hit your

00:39:59.220 first six figure year or month. Uh, you ask that woman on a date and she says, yes, you ask for a 0.71

00:40:04.960 hand in marriage. And she says, yes, you have a kid. Um, you, you coach your kid through a difficult

00:40:09.100 and challenging circumstance. You coach your kid at football. These are all little moments that we

00:40:13.940 should celebrate. We, we often don't, because if you're like me, we move on to the next thing so quick.

00:40:18.400 It's like, what's next? What's next? What's next? What's next? What's next? That's good for

00:40:21.760 ambitious men, but also like, it's good to look back and think, you know what? I did good.

00:40:27.560 When's the last time you felt good about yourself, man? We beat ourselves to death. We beat ourselves

00:40:34.360 to death. I didn't get this project done. I didn't hit this deadline. My wife is mad at me. My kids

00:40:40.860 hate me. My boss is upset with me. I lost this client. I don't look good in the mirror. I've added a

00:40:46.940 few more pounds. My bank account isn't where I want it to be. My business isn't growing as fast as

00:40:51.700 I think it should. My house doesn't look the way it should. I'm not as good as my friend. Like

00:40:56.220 we do that every day. When's the last time you said, you know what? Damn, I did pretty good right

00:41:03.720 there. I did pretty good. Today was a good day. I got four new clients. I paid off a thousand dollars 0.99

00:41:11.480 of debt today. I went to the gym and I'm down two pounds this week. I drank a bunch of water. I didn't

00:41:18.720 drink any alcohol. I took my wife on a date and we had a great time and we were able to have sex

00:41:24.500 and be connected and intimate afterwards. Celebrate that stuff. Celebrate that stuff because we're just

00:41:30.320 not doing it enough. And then the last moment that I said is when I got injured. Guys, I got injured

00:41:35.440 bad. I had a pectoral rupture. The tendons ruptured completely off the bone and I had to get surgery and

00:41:40.400 I was out and hung up for months and months and months. But that's life. You're going to get kicked

00:41:45.440 in the dick from, from time to time. What do you do? Like, do you use it to, as an excuse to throw 1.00

00:41:50.900 in the towel, to not do anything, to just live your life the way it always has been or the way that it

00:41:55.040 is now? Or do you say, you know what? Yeah, this was a, this was a real kick in the pants, but I'm

00:42:00.600 going to do something different. I'm going to adapt. I'm going to grow. I'm going to get better. I'm not

00:42:04.520 going to be deterred from this. I'm going to keep working out. When I got hurt with jujitsu, I actually

00:42:08.920 still went to class. You can talk to the guys that I trained with. I was there every night that I

00:42:14.300 trained. I was there and I wasn't training, but I was in the corner and I was doing body weight

00:42:19.080 movements. I was doing air squats and sit-ups and lunges and ab things. And like, I was doing all

00:42:25.420 the things that I could in spite of the injury that I had. I would listen, I would sit and I'd watch.

00:42:30.920 And then when I came back to jujitsu, I started training again and I felt really good. And the

00:42:35.020 guys are like, man, it feels like you haven't even skipped a beat. Yeah. I didn't skip a beat.

00:42:38.820 I stayed in shape. I stayed in the game. I did it differently, but I stayed in the game. I watched,

00:42:44.080 I studied, I researched, I looked, I asked questions and I kept myself in the game.

00:42:49.180 When I went through my divorce earlier this year, I kept myself in the game. Guys have asked,

00:42:53.760 oh man, it seems like you bounced back really quick. Of course I did. Of course I bounced back

00:42:58.140 really quick because I kept my head in the game. In fact, I would say it differently. I got my head

00:43:02.900 back in the game. I've got the tools. They're all right here. Journaling, battle plan. I've got all the

00:43:09.540 tools. You've got all the tools. And yet when something bad happens, we're like, oh, well,

00:43:14.000 you know, life's over. Life's no, it's not over. It just sucks for a minute. So we can wallow in it

00:43:20.060 and we can cry and we complain and we can bitch and moan about how it's not fair and why it shouldn't 0.99

00:43:24.080 happen to you and why, you know, you wish life was different, but it's not. And so instead it's like,

00:43:29.260 okay, let's use the tools that I have. Damn, that sucked. What can I do? Well, I can get in shape. 0.99

00:43:35.540 Stop drinking so much alcohol. Start having better conversations. I can start journaling my

00:43:39.980 thoughts. I can go to AA. I can get a therapist. I can join the iron council. I can get, join a gym.

00:43:45.360 I can start reading better books. I can call up my friends. I can go on vacations. I can go on

00:43:49.740 hunts. I can develop new hobbies, but you don't need to be halted just because some unforeseen,

00:43:57.100 unexpected, horrible event happens in your life. You just move on. Just keep going and it'll get

00:44:02.860 better. I have some bad days with the demise of my marriage. Like I have some really bad days

00:44:08.320 with the struggle between the kids. I have the relationship. I have my kids. I have some bad

00:44:11.780 days. I really do, but there are fewer and far farther between. And I'm able to recover quicker

00:44:18.340 than I was a year ago because I'm doing all the right things. At least I think I am. And it feels

00:44:23.160 like I am. All right. Last question of the day. This one comes from Alan McMichael. He says,

00:44:28.000 what is the best book that you've read this far read this year so far? Um, three books come to mind.

00:44:34.360 They're all podcast guests. That tends to be what I read the most as I'm preparing for guests, uh,

00:44:39.060 scarcity brain by Michael Easter. He's going to be coming on in the next week or two, uh, building a

00:44:45.020 non-anxious life by Dr. John Deloney. That podcast came out yesterday as a little release of this

00:44:50.480 podcast. And then a couple of weeks ago, I had Gary John Bishop, who's one of my favorite authors,

00:44:55.400 uh, to talk about our role as parents and how to heal our own personal traumas so that we can parent

00:45:00.660 better. And that one's called grow up. And I think the subtitle of that one is become don't

00:45:04.620 quote me on this becoming the parent your kids deserve, I believe. So those three are very,

00:45:10.520 very good books. And I would highly recommend all three of those. Okay. All right, guys,

00:45:15.280 we got through all of the iron council questions. I hope I gave you some good answers or at least some

00:45:19.480 things to consider. Please keep the questions coming. Consider joining our battle ready program

00:45:23.920 at order of men.com slash battle ready. That's a free program available to anybody who wants to sign up.

00:45:29.160 Uh, and yeah, that's it. So let's keep getting after it. We've got a lot of work to do. Um,

00:45:37.200 I like these questions a lot today and I really appreciate you being engaged in this question.

00:45:41.060 Guys, we'll be back on Friday until then go out there, take action and become a man. You are meant

00:45:46.060 to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

00:45:51.020 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

00:45:59.160 We'll be right back.

00:46:01.120 Bye.

Order of Man - October 04, 2023

Breaking Bad Habits, Renewing the Mind, and Dealing with Narcissists ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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