Order of Man - BRYAN CALLEN ｜ Moral Relativism, Personal Responsibility, and the Dangers of Academia

00:00:00.000 Guys, today I've got a man on the podcast who needs absolutely no introduction, the hilarious,

00:00:05.980 talented, and extremely intelligent, Brian Callen. Today we talk about all kinds of topics.

00:00:12.040 We basically just hit record and went for it. We talk about the importance of personal

00:00:16.920 responsibility, what the proper role of academia is, critical race theory, what the government

00:00:22.820 does that most of us don't acknowledge or aren't willing to recognize, morality and

00:00:28.940 whether or not it's objective or subjective, dealing with inconvenient truths. Guys, we

00:00:33.580 talk about so much and I think you're going to be blown away and fascinated with this

00:00:37.880 conversation. Enjoy.

00:00:39.300 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:44.160 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time you

00:00:49.740 are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This

00:00:56.040 is who you are. This is who you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said

00:01:01.080 and done, you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name

00:01:05.980 is Ryan Mickler. I'm the host and the founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement. And

00:01:10.720 my biggest objective here is to give you guys the tools and conversations and resources that

00:01:15.880 you need to thrive as a man. To that end, we bring on fascinating men, talk about their

00:01:21.460 lives, talk about what works for them, what hasn't worked for them. Hopefully we're going

00:01:25.360 to get some insight and information into how we can improve our own lives. So today I've

00:01:31.260 got the extremely talented Brian Callen on the podcast. I know a lot of you guys are familiar

00:01:37.180 with him and I know many of you have been asking for me to get him on the podcast. So I was down

00:01:41.760 in LA a couple of weeks ago when we were able to make it work. So that's what we've got today.

00:01:46.600 Before we get into the conversation, just very briefly, want to give a shout out to our show

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00:02:45.660 All right, guys, let's get to it with Brian Callen. He's a comedian. He's an actor. He's

00:02:51.480 a podcast host. Guys, this was literally one of my favorite podcast discussions is Brian's

00:02:58.020 so well-versed in some of the most important conversations and topics of today. We basically,

00:03:03.300 like I said earlier, hit record and Brian came out of the gate swinging. And I think you're

00:03:07.960 going to enjoy the hell out of this one. And if you're not already following him, make sure

00:03:10.620 you look into his comedy tour dates and also his podcast, the fighter and the kid. Enjoy

00:03:15.900 this one, gents.

00:03:18.400 Dude, that's a knife right there, bro. And for me, when I'm in combat, when I'm up close,

00:03:23.480 we call it up close and personal. I need a good grip, bro.

00:03:27.020 Close corner combat.

00:03:28.260 I got big hands, bro. I got, I'm medium all the way around. Although I got a dick on me.

00:03:36.540 I'm such a loser that when my kid was born, my kid was born with a piece on him and he's

00:03:42.380 little. He came out five pounds, seven ounces. Cause he's, you know, five weeks earlier or

00:03:48.600 whatever. But I was like, is it me or has he got a dick? And in the middle of the operating

00:03:53.960 room, I go, I gotta just say, and the, the, the OB, like she's a woman, she rolled her eyes

00:04:01.080 and she goes, yes, I will admit it's pretty big, but leave it to a guy. You guys always

00:04:06.240 say that. I'm like, well, it's the only, the intelligence personality is important, but

00:04:10.080 that's the most important.

00:04:11.600 Well, I'm just saying what everybody else is thinking. Like, let's just clear the air

00:04:14.760 here.

00:04:15.220 Exactly.

00:04:15.920 I'm not sure if you understand how genetics works, but hey, I took full credit.

00:04:19.820 I heard it skips a generation though or something. I don't know.

00:04:22.300 Maybe, but I still took full credit because again, I'm a loser. You don't lose your insecurity.

00:04:28.080 I was with my buddy who's made a billion dollars, like whatever you think is a lot

00:04:31.620 of money. He's made a billion. So that's a thousand million dollars. He's probably made

00:04:34.380 more. And, uh, he's 56. And he said, um, it's important for us now to define as men.

00:04:43.160 You gotta say good. You gotta wave goodbye. It's not about letting go. You gotta wave goodbye

00:04:47.220 to certain aspects of who you were. And, and you've got to embrace a new chapter in your

00:04:53.060 life because there are certain limitations. Your body becomes more delicate. I'm supposed to

00:04:57.960 run this Tough Mudder. My, my heel was like, no, you're not doing that. My heel was like,

00:05:03.000 I quit. And I'm like, but my whole body, we're on lockdown. You need to push up. You

00:05:07.640 need to pull ups in your fucking garage. There's no walking today. You know? And that's what

00:05:12.760 happens. I, and nobody wants to hear that my tendons are, are inflamed. Like, right.

00:05:20.140 It is true. And it's, um, we're recording, right?

00:05:23.300 Yeah. You guys start. Yeah. I think we've started.

00:05:27.080 No, we can do the, no, it's, it's all good. I think we started already. Yeah. Come jump

00:05:32.440 in. Whatever you want. Come jump in. I don't think you're going to wreck it. I think you're

00:05:37.240 going to add to it. Just at least have the mic next to you and we can go from there. Uh,

00:05:39.980 go on. Yeah. Um, can't remember what I was saying. Oh yeah. I feel the same way. Even just

00:05:46.640 in the last year, I'm like, man, it's a little slower to recover. Yeah. Uh, weight doesn't

00:05:52.060 go away as quickly. It goes on a little faster. This is weird. This is new territory. You have

00:05:58.140 a fire beard, bro. You have a fucking Viking fire. I used to have, this thing used to be

00:06:03.040 down like six inches long. It should always be six inches at least. Well, it is at least

00:06:07.980 six inches long. The beard though is a little different. No, I meant, hold on. What are we

00:06:12.200 talking about? I think that's how you started this thing. Talking about your, your kid.

00:06:16.960 Well, is there anything else to talk about? Yeah, that's pretty. So, so he came five weeks

00:06:22.580 early. Yeah. Something like that. Our first came four weeks early, five pounds, four ounces

00:06:26.980 or whatever. Yeah. So you went through the same thing. Yeah. We didn't do the NICU thing

00:06:30.520 though. No, no. He had a little bit of jaundice cause the liver or kidney or whatever. And

00:06:36.440 they had to, they had to prick his foot like five times. To check his belly levels. The

00:06:40.840 really Reuben or whatever. Yeah. It is. Yeah. Yeah. So fortunately, um, he was pretty

00:06:46.180 high on those levels and then they, they said, ah, he's fine. Yeah. They put him under

00:06:49.500 a lamp or something. It was like a briefcase tanning bed. Yeah. So we brought this thing

00:06:53.660 home. Trish and I, my wife and I traded off back and forth every night, whether I sleep

00:06:58.240 or not. My buddy said, what are they doing when, you know, what are they doing when they

00:07:02.040 didn't have this? And I was like, babies died all the time. Yeah. And moms died all the

00:07:06.700 time. That's what, Hey, shout out to fucking Western medicine and microscopes and the scientific

00:07:12.700 revolution. Everybody shout out to that because we pay. I mean, look, say what you will about

00:07:19.140 pharmaceutical companies. Science pushes us far beyond our biology. You know? Well, that,

00:07:25.680 I mean, think about that technology here. All these people complaining about the, the tyrannical

00:07:30.380 patriarchy and how oppressed they are. And it's like, that's cute. Look at the phone,

00:07:34.380 the supercomputer that you're crying. How about antibiotics? How about the pill?

00:07:39.120 Exactly. How about the tampon? How about nuclear fusion that allows us? How about, how about

00:07:43.440 let's go through, um, the technology that puts ammonia in the nitrogen into soil that allows

00:07:51.260 us to have food in the, the long winters. Who's the last person, you know, that starved to

00:07:57.620 death? Anybody? Who's the last person, you know, who died of diphtheria, mumps, measles? Uh,

00:08:03.240 we can go on. Smallpox, smallpox, anyone? Polio, anyone? Right. What the fuck are we talking

00:08:07.800 about? The technology in your TV? Oh, um, let me keep going. Uh, concepts you want to talk

00:08:13.460 about. Did you say patriarchal, uh, the, uh, the tyrannical patriarchy? Cool. Um, the,

00:08:20.120 the concepts, uh, called racism, humanism, individualism, feminism, uh, universal suffrage.

00:08:28.020 We can just keep going. Last I checked the intellectual architecture that went into the

00:08:33.940 arguments that won that, that, though, that war of ideas that won that war of ideas that

00:08:40.780 beat bad ideas like slavery. And we have to, we still have to atone for that in our country.

00:08:45.540 I understand. Sure. But those were all part, they all came out of from last I checked the

00:08:51.380 patriarch, the Western male, that patriarchy doesn't mean that women didn't have a huge to

00:08:57.300 do with things. It doesn't mean that we don't, we, we, we, we do, we bet we will benefit greatly

00:09:02.820 from including other people, of course, but the idea, the concept that one is of the same

00:09:11.560 moral worth and has the same human potential, regardless of your skin color or your gender

00:09:17.840 came out of the enlightenment and the, did you say tyrannical patriarch? Well, it's weird

00:09:25.720 too to think that that's, that to me, it's strange to even think that that's a fairly

00:09:31.240 new concept in the history of human civilization. This was always in the academic, this was

00:09:35.140 in the academic fringes. Yeah. Oh, you mean, that's right. Just the fact that people are

00:09:39.280 equal. What was a fairly new concept? It's a, it's an, it's so new. It's, I can't, I can

00:09:44.820 barely believe it. It's so new that in fact, if you look at the great moral thinkers from

00:09:49.780 Confucius to Jesus Christ, to Socrates, to Aristotle, to Seneca, I mean, none of them spoke

00:09:57.780 about the evils of slavery. None of them really spoke about the evils of a caste system, which

00:10:02.020 existed, of course, in India, which existed, of course, in the great chain of being of,

00:10:06.040 of England. No one ever spoke about it. That's what's fascinating.

00:10:09.580 You said something interesting though, about the, uh, what'd you say slavery, the tone for

00:10:14.360 slavery, we still have to atone for it. What do you mean by that?

00:10:17.340 Well, we, the United States has been a country with slavery longer than has been a country

00:10:21.720 without slavery. A lot of people don't realize that. So that, that, that is going to have

00:10:24.680 its residue. That's going to have its ripple effect. That is an, an injustice that's always

00:10:29.520 been inconsistent with the idea that all men are created equal. The founding fathers wrote

00:10:34.300 about this. They knew about this. I mean, did Jefferson and George Washington freed all

00:10:38.740 his slaves? I mean, they, they, they, they obsessed and recognized, of course, the blinding

00:10:44.940 inconsistency, the, the, the sort of, uh, I mean, it was, it was so crazy that, that it

00:10:51.360 was, they knew that the abolitionist movement and the, the idea that slavery was this institution

00:10:56.380 you couldn't defend along the lines that you had established this country on was, was something

00:11:03.280 they were going to have to reckon with and they didn't know what to do about it. So I think

00:11:07.280 we're still dealing with that in a sense. Um, what I, what I object to is the far left's

00:11:12.900 refusal, the far left's, well, I have, I have, I have, I, I have a huge problem with far left

00:11:18.640 across the board, but their refusal to acknowledge that culture, that, that beliefs, that practices,

00:11:25.960 that behaviors don't personal responsibility, personal behaviors don't play a, a role in whether

00:11:34.260 or not you succeed or you fail in the 21st century. This is not rocket science. And, and if you don't

00:11:43.000 want to read white scholars on this, please read Thomas Sowell. Right. Uh, or, you know, and, and we

00:11:48.720 can keep going on, on, um, but do you attribute it to, do you attribute it to ignorance or malicious

00:11:56.680 intent? Ideology. But it's hard for me. I mean, you said it yourself, like it's hard, it's hard to

00:12:03.640 believe that people actually think that meritocracy, for example, isn't something that's going to drive

00:12:11.040 progress and innovation and growth for everybody, not just the top tier. We live in a meritocracy.

00:12:17.340 So I'm a comic. I'm an actor. Right. I either get the job or I don't. There's no second place.

00:12:21.980 Sure. I either fill, put butts in the seat or I don't. I either write jokes, people laugh at,

00:12:27.100 or I don't. I, I, for whatever it's worth, I did sports growing up. You either win that wrestling

00:12:33.920 match or you fucking lose that wrestling match. You know, you either make a business work or you

00:12:38.840 don't. You live that way. We're doing a podcast right now. You want to get listeners. You it's

00:12:43.940 important. So you've got to think about the questions you're going to ask. You, you, we are

00:12:48.780 dealing with a group of people, academics in our higher institutions of learning that have never,

00:12:54.940 ever had to live in that world. They came from wealth. They live in an elite institution behind

00:13:01.800 very protective walls and the humanities, the humanities, whether they're economics or psychology

00:13:09.280 or literature or God forbid, all these tributary academic fields, which are an academic fields like

00:13:16.840 gender studies, et cetera, are, are, are, you know, they, the, anybody who had any kind of a

00:13:23.400 conservative, uh, mindset was pushed out. So there was zero pushback. So what happens is the echo

00:13:31.020 chamber keeps getting more and more, uh, pure. And just like with everything, when you have that

00:13:37.040 kind of incest, when you have that kind of incestual relationship, it becomes a snake eating its own

00:13:42.300 tail and you develop, uh, uh, I think retarded is wrong word right now. That's not allowed anymore,

00:13:50.160 but you do, you retard, you, you stunt, there becomes an arrested development. Sure. These

00:13:55.220 people are not smart. I have spoken to those academics. They are so myopic. I use this analogy

00:14:00.960 the other day. It's like when you want to learn about health. Okay. If you want to learn how to eat

00:14:06.320 and be vibrant and optimal in your physicality, if you want to be strong and do have a lot of

00:14:12.400 endurance, you know, increase your foot or hand speed, be, be pain-free, um, feel vibrant, have a

00:14:20.520 heart on whenever, you know, whatever it might be. You don't go to a, an eye specialist, right? You

00:14:26.180 don't go to a fucking, you know, the, uh, a guy who specializes in bladder cancer. That person is

00:14:32.500 specific on that. They took nutrition way back when, bro, they, you know, when a cert, you don't

00:14:39.520 go to an orthopedic surgeon who works just on shoulders. That guy's the best at shoulders,

00:14:44.320 but you start asking him questions about health and diet. He's going to go, where'd you read that?

00:14:50.040 Because that's not his area of focus. So I'm not going to that guy to ask about how to be healthy.

00:14:56.920 I'm going to that guy when I got a bad fucking shoulder and academia has become the same thing.

00:15:02.500 You are at the, I'm going to borrow a metaphor from, I think, I think I can't remember the

00:15:06.560 academic's name, but you are at the bottom of a well and all you can see is your sliver

00:15:10.740 of the sky. Okay. You don't see the whole sky. You fucking dummy, but you're indoctrinating

00:15:16.140 kids into your own indoctrination. But it's so weird because an academic you would think

00:15:22.300 is going to, yes, I can see the echo chamber that you're talking about, but also an academic

00:15:28.900 should be at least studying other texts, studying other ways of doing things, studying history and

00:15:36.540 seeing that, oh, what I'm engaged in doesn't work. It's proven not to work at this point.

00:15:41.460 Well, I can give you a better, I can give you a better analogy of what I think an academic's job

00:15:47.920 is. Okay. I don't think an academic's job is to teach you what to think. I think an academic's

00:15:52.400 job is to teach you how to think. And the great teachers do that.

00:15:56.120 Should be is what you're saying. Yes. But we have now, we don't have academics teaching

00:16:00.180 kids now. We have ideologues. We have activists. We have, we have people who have no idea how

00:16:05.720 to think. They haven't been taught how to think. Somehow they got tenure because they, they check

00:16:11.220 a box, which I'm, you know, which I think is the enemy of everything. And what's the enemy

00:16:20.100 of everything? When equity, the idea. So, so putting equality of outcome over equality

00:16:26.100 of opportunity. Because then you have to manipulate the input in order to achieve the objective.

00:16:31.160 Yeah. But, but how are we talking about this now? How the fuck is this news? Why is this,

00:16:36.460 why are these bad ideas? Why, how have they been repackaged? They are the enemy. If you want

00:16:42.940 to find the enemy and I sound like the, you know, when they killed Socrates, they, they accused

00:16:49.200 him of corrupting the youth of Athens. Well, I guess I might be part of that fucking group

00:16:54.080 because they are the enemy. The academics, the people that, that created these, look,

00:17:00.260 Jordan Peterson's way better about this than I am, but I've spoken to them. I can, I interviewed

00:17:05.440 400 academics at least on my old podcast, maybe more. I'm telling you that, that, that they

00:17:11.040 are, they are quite simply the biggest activists. They're just so far left. And I consider them

00:17:19.580 to be the enemy. I think if you want to change, I think the biggest problem in this country

00:17:23.700 is that we are, we are being taught ideologies that have already been proven to be wrong,

00:17:31.580 that have no standing. This is where this anti-racist, see what I do is I read all my

00:17:36.020 enemies. I've read Ibram Kendi. I've read that fucking, that terrible, that horseshit human

00:17:43.200 being Robin DiAngelo's white fragility. She sucks. She's such a, she's such a zero. Like

00:17:49.720 she's such an anti-academic. It's hilarious to me. And then, and then I've read, I've read

00:17:54.320 the critics. See, I'm, I'm an actor. I'm a comedian. I've read all the crits. I've read

00:17:57.780 Richard Delgado. I've read Derek Bell. I've read Penelope Crenshaw, Kimberly, Kimberly Crenshaw.

00:18:03.240 I've read, I've read them. I took my time to really try to see. And I, and I, and I will

00:18:08.180 say from a scholarly point of view, critical race theory has its merits. It does. There's

00:18:13.920 what they do is they bring up really cool, interesting ideas. They, what, what a crit

00:18:18.260 will say, a critical race theorist will say is, is look, a black woman trying to raise

00:18:24.400 two kids without a father in a certain part, a demographic, like in the ghetto or wherever

00:18:29.980 it might be, or in an underprivileged area has very different concerns than a black man

00:18:35.520 working in a civil rights office in the same neighborhood who's trying to get voting legislation

00:18:43.800 passed. Sure. Right. She doesn't have time for that right now, bro. She's got to have

00:18:47.660 somebody to take care of her kids because she's holding it down to fucking jobs. Yeah. So

00:18:51.500 when she goes over there, they tell her to stuff envelopes and she's saying, I'm stuffing

00:18:57.560 envelopes, bro, but I got my kids. I need somebody to take care. I don't have daycare for my

00:19:01.880 kids. She has very real problems, right? So that's where the critical race theorists

00:19:06.640 have a contribution. They're looking at the very different. So, so when you walk by a

00:19:11.260 homeless person and your buddy calls him a hobo and you say, dude, I got to check you.

00:19:14.720 He's homeless. He's unhoused. Cool, dude. Did that do anything to change his fucking life?

00:19:20.320 Yeah. No, of course it did. No. So the crits, that would be critical. That's an example of

00:19:24.500 how would the kind of work that critical race theorists do. So I'm not, I'm not against

00:19:29.100 scholarship in any, in any field. I'm not, it's fine. I'm not, I'm not against that.

00:19:35.160 What I have a problem with is when that becomes dogma, truth with a capital T, the only thing,

00:19:44.420 the 1619 project with Hannah Jones, whatever. Yeah. I love that you know these names, by the

00:19:49.800 way. I appreciate that because you've done your work. Well, it's important. You got, like

00:19:53.300 you said, you got to understand what everybody's saying. Slavery was an integral part of this

00:19:57.980 country, but so was innovation. So was the constitution. So was the idea that you could

00:20:02.660 make a lot of money off your own individual initiative. I mean, come on now. Let's, let's

00:20:07.560 not, let's not say it's, it's only the story of slavery. There's a lot of stories.

00:20:12.400 There's a lot, there's a lot more to it than just slavery.

00:20:15.440 Yeah. And so what happens with these people is they become specialists and all they can see

00:20:19.080 is their tiny sliver of the world. It's an example of what I'm saying. So, and the, but

00:20:24.780 they, they right now have undue power, but you can't apply this shit at the level of

00:20:30.260 detail. How do you run a society like this? We're already seeing what's happening. People

00:20:34.380 are going, I, you can't have a six foot four dude who's now deciding they're a woman smashing

00:20:41.120 all the female, the swimming records. Go fuck yourself. Right. Go fuck yourself. Well, you

00:20:46.120 know, what's interesting about that? I've been thinking on that one a little bit, you know,

00:20:49.300 the, the, the inevitable outcome, frankly, women need to stand up for this, um, and against

00:20:54.960 this because what's what the only solution, if we're going to assign it based on gender

00:21:01.920 and not sex is do away with sex, distinct competition. No. And then all the women are

00:21:09.620 going to be out again. It goes back to how you think versus what you think you can't be

00:21:14.100 selective. What is the philosophy behind it? If you say I can be transsexual,

00:21:19.080 and I can identify as a woman and then, and then apply that to everyday life, like

00:21:24.960 competition, you had, then, then I'm going to, then, you know what? I, I also identify

00:21:30.440 as, uh, an Asian, uh, 12 year old. I'm not, I'm not 54. I want to be 12. That's how I feel.

00:21:39.380 I feel 12. I dude, I feel 30 sometimes I'm 30. You understand? Yeah. Oh, I get it. So,

00:21:46.140 so. Well, and culture, cult, I think culture is a little bit more malleable anyways, Asia. What

00:21:51.360 does that mean? Well, okay. That might've actually been societally constructed, right? Geographic

00:21:56.400 shore, but borders are just societies that have fought and battled and everything else. That's

00:22:01.640 more of a societal construct than biology, sex, gender. But see, I can understand that one

00:22:08.660 more than I can understand sex. What I like about what you're saying though, is that it's forcing

00:22:13.020 all of us reasonable people to formulate and articulate and give form to our, to our philosophy,

00:22:22.860 to our pushback? Yeah. Cause there's a lot of pushback. And I think what's, what's happening

00:22:27.280 already is that far left insanity is such a political liability. They're going to get slaughtered.

00:22:32.960 Yeah. But also it's really easy to make fun of. It's fucking so easy. It gives you a lot of

00:22:38.680 material. So fucking stupid. They're so dumb, but it's so much fun to make fun of. Like

00:22:43.460 they just live in their fucking, some of them are in big tech and they're not doing well

00:22:47.640 and, and they're not happy. They're just not, man.

00:22:51.100 I think the problem is, is that decent rational people don't have time for the bullshit. They

00:22:58.360 don't have the mental capacity. Not that they don't have the capacity. They don't have the

00:23:01.640 mental desire to focus any amount of time on that. And so they're quiet. And then the left

00:23:08.020 banks on that, that everybody's going to be quiet. And then guys like you who challenged the status

00:23:14.100 quo, who are well-researched, who are willing to make fun of things, which I think is a hugely

00:23:19.860 important thing in society are silenced and canceled and all this other stuff.

00:23:24.100 Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I was already, I was told that was going to happen, but you know, that's

00:23:29.720 okay because I'm an American and I'm proud. I'm, I'm a patriot. And I know I don't take

00:23:36.340 for granted in for one second, what the founding fathers gave us, which was they created a system

00:23:42.560 that allowed, that did not allow the concentration of power to pull any one group's hands. It's

00:23:50.640 not the bill of rights. You know, it's the fact that we have a bicameral legislature. It's the

00:23:55.200 fact that we have these different branches of government that are always grading against each

00:24:01.020 other. Government is supposed to move slowly government. You're supposed to not have, you're

00:24:05.480 supposed to gripe about how little power you have as a president.

00:24:08.380 Nothing ever gets done. Right. That's a feature. That is not a bug.

00:24:12.460 That was the great genius of James Madison and Thomas Jefferson and John Jay and, and Alexander

00:24:18.700 Hamilton, they've solved the political problem that way. And the list goes on.

00:24:22.460 I think the problem even with that though, is that, um, let's take executive orders, for example,

00:24:27.520 uh, whatever party is in control, wields that stuff as this, as if it's a good thing. Well,

00:24:33.280 you know, executive authority, that's a great thing until you're on the wrong side of the

00:24:38.160 equation. Of course they want to get rid of the filibuster. They don't want to get rid of the

00:24:41.220 exactly. Yeah. That's, that's always going to happen. But I was going to address what you were

00:24:45.300 saying also about the, the average, the everyday person that there are two things going on for us.

00:24:51.340 We're all trying to construct a life. Constructing a life is difficult. Like it takes time, man. Sure.

00:24:58.560 Building a business, you know, uh, building your body, building a skill, getting a black belt in

00:25:04.860 jujitsu. We're all trying to get, build something here. And we also pay a price for being wrong.

00:25:10.720 All of us pay a price for being wrong. But, uh, Douglas Murray, I think it was who wrote the

00:25:16.380 madness of crowds and Nassim Taleb who wrote, uh, um, anti-fragile, but he also wrote skin in the

00:25:23.480 game. Yeah. Uh, talked about how, you know, these people don't pay a price for being wrong. Um,

00:25:29.740 they're not paying a price for being wrong and they are deconstructing. They are deconstructionist.

00:25:35.520 When you're an academic, you get to sit on the outside. And for that matter, even as a

00:25:41.220 journalist nowadays, and because you make money deconstructing, you get, you make money just

00:25:46.220 pontificating, using your face to make your living and not paying a price for when you're

00:25:50.700 wrong. Well, but it's the same thing with economists like Paul Krugman, et cetera.

00:25:54.180 It's not even just not paying a price. You're actually rewarded for, for that.

00:25:58.900 Yeah. It's to the tune of tens of millions of dollars, sir. Yeah. I mean, you, you, that's

00:26:05.420 what I'm saying. Like you, you can make, you see these people, they make up the dumbest things,

00:26:08.820 they lie about things and then they're rewarded, whether it's financial incentive or notoriety or

00:26:15.320 a few more clicks or some social media followers, um, or a few more applauds or whatever they're

00:26:20.680 rewarded for doing it. And so they're incentivized to continue down that path. Yes. Yes. And I also

00:26:27.200 think the biggest, the other thing is that we tend, and we're doing it too, but anybody who,

00:26:32.360 anybody woke, uh, listening to us would say they're just two straight white guys and they're,

00:26:37.260 they're, you know, but I'm not, that's not, that is such a cop out. Like meet me, meet me with my

00:26:46.240 arguments, answer my questions, answer my questions. What, what, what do you, what do you honestly have a

00:26:53.600 problem with? And have you compared us to other countries? I lived in these other countries. Have

00:26:59.100 you, have you taken stock of what you have gained and what you get from this wonderful? Well, there's

00:27:05.700 the, the, the problem is, is the, the, the false dichotomies that we live in, right? So if, if one

00:27:12.140 thing's wrong, thing is wrong, everything's wrong. And if you dare, like, for example, I'll have people

00:27:18.300 listen to this podcast and they'll say, well, you know, you should have talked about all these other

00:27:22.700 things. It's like, well, we were together for like an hour and a half. Yeah. You know, I couldn't

00:27:27.300 possibly address every scenario that humankind has ever dealt with. Right. But people think that this

00:27:35.180 podcast is specifically for them, that the world revolves around them. And that if I say something

00:27:41.340 that they disagree with, then I have an issue with that individual specifically. Yeah. Rogan and I used

00:27:47.400 to always talk about this because we, I've known him since I was a young man and we used to shout,

00:27:51.800 we'd get in arguments and it'd just be two dudes shouting our points of view and then fucking get

00:27:56.180 uncomfortable. And now, um, what we realized was that these are just ideas, man. Right. And we're

00:28:03.040 just putting them on the table and they might get beat by a better idea, but these are just ideas.

00:28:08.840 You have to share them to be able to find something that would beat it. Yeah. As a guy who always called

00:28:12.680 himself a libertarian, I read Michael Lewis's book, The Fifth Risk about the, all the things government

00:28:18.220 does. And you know what I realized? I don't know what the fuck I'm talking. I don't know a thing

00:28:21.360 about government. And I have no, again, and, and a shout out to people who are, you know, who are

00:28:26.560 working the government. I had no idea how much I benefit from government, from the department of

00:28:32.560 energy, from the department of agriculture, transportation. I had no fucking idea. I'm sitting

00:28:36.920 there going and I believe in small government. Well, Brian, you don't know what the fuck, you

00:28:40.580 don't know anything about the government first of all. And I don't, and I don't, I read one book

00:28:45.120 and that, that was all it took to make me realize, oh, I'm a fucking idiot, which I am. So I don't

00:28:51.020 have the answers, but at least now I can be like, I'm an idiot. I'm an idiot. There's a lot of shit.

00:28:56.100 I don't know. And, and, you know, I didn't know that they shoot, you know, shoots firecrackers off

00:29:01.560 to make sure geese don't fly into your fucking engine. Department of agriculture. Didn't know that,

00:29:05.860 you know, gets food, you know, manages all the food banks and gets food to people who can't walk

00:29:10.900 in the wintertime and have no money in isolated areas. Department of agriculture. Do you know who

00:29:16.440 gave low interest loans and made Tesla possible, a car I drive? Department of energy. You know,

00:29:22.400 created, I don't know, things like gene therapy that saved my friend's life. Gene therapy, you know,

00:29:28.380 cancer stuff. I believe it was department of energy with a low interest loan at ARPA or it was DARPA.

00:29:35.620 It was DARPA. It was actually DARPA. So department of energy. Yeah. GPS. You ever use that? I do.

00:29:40.520 Yeah. That'd be DARPA. Okay. Kevlar, that'd be DARPA. Internet. You ever heard of the internet?

00:29:45.020 That's, that was a program at DARPA. So I should shut the fuck up. The scientists studying how to

00:29:49.920 get sheep to graze at higher altitudes as the globe warms. You can believe in globe warming or not,

00:29:56.340 but I don't know how to do that. They do. They're not political. They're just scientists going,

00:30:00.640 I don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about, but the globe right now is warming from my

00:30:03.960 perspective and I got to get sheep to graze because we can't grow the kind of grass they like here.

00:30:08.560 So if you like mutton, Hey, Brian Cowan, if you like fucking mutton, which I do,

00:30:14.920 which I just show up and I'm like, you don't have the fucking mutton. This is bullshit.

00:30:20.080 Well, you know, you know, there are scientists in the government figuring this shit out. So it was

00:30:24.540 very humbling. Well, I mean, I think, yeah, we're obviously very ignorant to this stuff.

00:30:30.260 Yeah. I'm, I'm, but, but people will read a book and they're like, Oh no, I get it now. It's

00:30:34.720 like I stayed at a motel six one night. And so you think you're a brain surgeon, right? That's

00:30:38.760 the problem. But just right. Just, but, but I do believe it's important to keep changing your mind.

00:30:43.500 It's important to keep listening to each other. It's important to read the people you disagree

00:30:46.840 with. Like I have tried to do with the, with critical race theory, uh, with Ibram Kendi,

00:30:52.120 who's the biggest lightweight in the world. But I like Ibram Kendi because it's a confessional

00:30:56.180 and he's always changing his mind. I think the strength of Ibram Kendi who wrote how to be an

00:31:01.240 anti-racist is the fact that this dude is so honest about how he continues to change

00:31:06.680 his mind, how wrong he is and how wrong he might be. I think you might see Ibram Kendi

00:31:12.000 and if, if, um, in 20 years, he, you might see him come out and say, this is all bullshit.

00:31:18.300 I've changed my mind. That is his strength. I think he's very wrong, but, but, but right

00:31:23.660 now, but, but, but then, then you have the ideologues like Robin DiAngelo, who's the biggest

00:31:28.780 fucking zero. Did I mention that? Fuck that book. God, it's so embarrassing.

00:31:34.140 I think the problem is, is it hard. Well, I think here, I'll say it this way. What we

00:31:38.080 ought to be doing is also examining motives. So you're talking about the department of agriculture,

00:31:42.380 for example, and you're saying, you know, these guys aren't politically driven. Well,

00:31:46.740 maybe, but there are people who are going to use them as political pawns. And I think what we need

00:31:52.060 to do a better job of asking is not only what is happening, but why is it happening? You know,

00:31:56.800 for example, with COVID, okay, here's what's happening, restrictions, lockdowns, vaccines,

00:32:03.000 this and that. Why, why, why is it happening the way it's happening? What are the motives

00:32:08.880 of the people who are instituting these mandates, for example? Cause I think we're going to get

00:32:12.460 closer to the truth if we determine what motives are. Well, cause you can take, there's so much

00:32:18.400 money and that's what I'm saying. I mean, right. You can take one scenario and the motive is going

00:32:24.540 to completely alter the way that thing is, is instituted. It scares the shit out of me when

00:32:30.500 they can get that many of us to force that many of us to wear masks and vaccine mandates. I am pro

00:32:37.340 vaccine in general. I think vaccines are great for the most part. I get very suspicious when you want

00:32:44.040 children to be vaccinated and you have, and Pfizer has 37 billion doses and you're making that much

00:32:50.240 money. Rogan's done such a service with having this guy, Abrams and Malone and all these, you know,

00:32:57.940 to hear these, these scientists, these insiders, these people who developed the vaccine, you know,

00:33:06.080 come out and say, hold on guys, hold it. I'm listening. All I know is I'm listening. I'm

00:33:12.280 listening now. Now I'm going, but these guys know so much more and I know nothing. And they're not

00:33:18.080 anti-vaxxers. They're not, but you know, do masks work? Again, it goes back to, are you going to give

00:33:25.340 a government bureaucrat like Fauci that much power? Yes, apparently. Yes. Yeah. It goes back to not

00:33:31.340 letting power concentrate in one person's hands. We just know that human beings are fallible.

00:33:37.820 Do one of the things, I'm not a Christian, you know, but, but, um, one of the things I think is

00:33:41.400 interesting about the Bible is that the, the apostle Paul who wrote most of the new Testament letter to

00:33:47.460 Corinthians and all that said, beware of using your own logic to get yourself out of the predicament

00:33:54.340 of the problem of being a human being. Faith has this really interesting sort of doorway,

00:34:00.860 this escape hatch, because I've read a lot of philosophy and every time I fucking go down the

00:34:05.720 philosophy rabbit hole and I listen to lectures and stuff, boy, do I, do I find myself sort of in a

00:34:11.580 circle? You know, Nietzsche was, you know, he's such a seductive guy, but everybody I read who was a

00:34:19.260 philosopher, I don't know how happy they were. Yeah. Oh yeah. And then you get Paul who says,

00:34:24.660 Hey guys, this, all this fucking religion is great, but don't forget about love. At the end of the day,

00:34:30.000 it might just be about love. And it's like, what? That's an emotional, that's, that's emotional,

00:34:34.320 but it's true. It's like, you know, how do you justify, how do you say, when you say something

00:34:39.880 like all human life is sacred? Well, is a vegetable in a bed that's never going to come out of a coma

00:34:45.660 sacred? That's a lot of resources we're spending on that human being, but we do, we do. And the reason

00:34:52.160 we do is because somewhere along the lines, we ingested the idea that we are all of the same moral

00:35:00.500 worth, regardless of your physicality, regardless of what you look like. So you have to, if you are,

00:35:09.280 if you, if you defend someone who identifies as a gay or whatever it might be, or as a woman,

00:35:16.460 you have to also protect that vegetable, that invalid, that profoundly retarded human being who

00:35:24.520 can't feed themselves. Again, it goes back to, you can't pick and choose, man. You have to have

00:35:31.800 absolutes. That doesn't come from philosophy. That doesn't come from rationality. That doesn't come

00:35:37.300 from math. It doesn't. I'm sorry, Sam Harris. I'm sorry. It doesn't come from just rationality.

00:35:42.980 You can rationalize your way into murdering a lot of people that drain resources on bad criminals,

00:35:50.000 people who can't take care of themselves, total invalids, people who are brain dead. You can do

00:35:56.980 that. And we have done that in the past in history. Well, even the abortion conversation is a great

00:36:02.540 example of that. The way out of that, we all benefit a great deal from the idea that we're all of the

00:36:12.820 same moral worth, that human life is sacred. That's the argument. So you're saying morality is

00:36:19.240 absolute then? No, I'm not willing to die on that hill. I just, I, I, that scares me. Um, but,

00:36:28.260 but yeah, but I mean, as a human, as an individual, don't you have to live that way? I, I believe that

00:36:36.960 it's just hard for me to defend it personally. Well, it's always hard to defend. That's why,

00:36:41.200 that's why doubt. That's why when you have faith, it always comes with what's called doubt.

00:36:47.140 Look, I mean, and so does philosophy. I mean, remember, anytime you read any philosopher,

00:36:52.640 please have a semicolon and the semicolon after everything you've read should be,

00:36:56.960 but how can we be sure of that? Well, I think, I think the best, the best litmus test is,

00:37:03.780 does it serve people? Like, is it, or even this, this is more simple, but I don't know if this is

00:37:09.800 totally accurate, but is it right? But then again, that comes to morality being objective,

00:37:13.680 uh, objective that it's just, it is what it is. But you can, but you can, you can draw these

00:37:19.320 absolutes. And let me tell you how, take a look at what the enlightenment and what, take a look at

00:37:25.820 what the West has given us from the constitution to the bill of rights, to equality at all costs,

00:37:35.060 to feminism, individualism, to the technology that pushes capitalism, or all of that. Take a look at

00:37:41.920 what that does. Isn't it true? But also look at the artistic expression that it, that, so when you,

00:37:48.320 when you have a society that protects its gentler spirits, that allows you, even though you don't

00:37:53.820 represent a type of strength, you can measure the Roman, the Roman or Spartan measure of strength,

00:38:01.780 broad chest, uh, hurling a spear really far, holding your, your, your shield, lifting your shield

00:38:08.540 in unison with the phalanx. So, you know, uh, this is, this is strength and everyone else bow before

00:38:16.340 me. We have slaves, we have women, we have children. I will take your women and children, et cetera.

00:38:21.080 Well, well, um, actually, actually the societies that measure strength in many ways in the arts,

00:38:29.700 in the dead languages of Latin and Greek. I mean, not Greek, but you know, in the, in the dead Latin

00:38:35.440 language of Latin, in, in, in, in, in painting, in, um, fashion and fashion and all the people that

00:38:43.800 belong to fashion, our gender fluid people that create the goodies and create color in our world

00:38:51.300 who understand texture, fabric. Uh, uh, uh, they understand they can say that that wall of roses

00:38:58.000 might be a little too aggressive in this space. Shit that you and I'd be like, huh? Yeah, sure. Thank

00:39:03.680 God for those people because what it creates is art and that's the cornerstone of our culture. And it's

00:39:09.620 what we stay alive for. If you have just one idea of strength, which is this knife and steel,

00:39:17.520 hard and steel, strong four-legged dogs with a good bite and great and, and, and guns that don't jam

00:39:23.660 and, and the stock market in the NFL, you may no longer be interesting as a culture, man. You want

00:39:31.480 to be interesting. The Sistine Chapel took a long time to paint and he went blind doing it because

00:39:36.600 the paint kept falling in his eyes. Fuck. That's way more interesting. Or even what's worth protecting at

00:39:42.000 that point. Yes. When they, when they designed Florence, at least the legend goes, the Pope and the King

00:39:47.220 walked around with an architect and just said, how, how, how far away should people be from each other

00:39:53.520 as they walk by each other in the street? Let's take that into account. I want to see what that's

00:39:59.980 like. I want people to feel connected. Let's design the streets just so let's measure that human

00:40:07.860 interaction. Fuck dude. It's not about flow. It's not about efficiency. It's not even about abundance.

00:40:14.140 It's about human connection. And so now when we go to Florence, man, we walk around in our jaws drop.

00:40:21.860 We're like, it's one of the jewels of the world. Those were not that, that the consideration that

00:40:28.140 went into those places was not weaponry. It was human connection. It was that we are a community.

00:40:36.660 Man, let me just take a step away from the podcast very, very quickly. I want to share something with

00:40:41.580 you here. Uh, years ago, I started, uh, implementing a very small step into my day, just morning

00:40:48.740 planning. Now this is not hyperbole. That simple shift quite literally changed the trajectory of my

00:40:54.240 life. And I know if you do it, it will for you too. And I tried all sorts of planners and journals,

00:40:59.580 but nothing really seemed to get it quite right or was exactly what I was looking for. So I created my

00:41:06.500 own planner that I've been using for over six years now. And thousands of men are also using the exact

00:41:12.100 same planner and having incredible success with locking in their fitness and health, making more

00:41:18.080 money, starting businesses, rekindling romantic relationships, connecting with their kids,

00:41:23.140 and basically finding more meaning and joy and satisfaction in their lives because of their

00:41:28.740 morning planning. Now I know it may sound too good to be true, but I would challenge you

00:41:33.540 to give morning planning a try for the next 30 to 45 days and just see what it does for you.

00:41:39.960 And you're not going to be out anything if you do. Uh, but I think you're going to see how

00:41:44.040 impactful it can be for you. And guys, if you want a little bit of an assist along the way

00:41:49.120 and how to do this morning planning, then check out our 12 week battle planner and you can see how

00:41:54.400 it will help you. You can do that at store.orderofman.com that's store.orderofman.com. Check out our

00:42:02.260 battle planner, but at a minimum get doing that, uh, morning planning. All right, guys back to it

00:42:07.200 with Brian. Well, I think part of the challenges is that the different, we'll just call it classes

00:42:14.380 for lack of a better term, whether it's the artistic class or the warrior class, they don't

00:42:20.380 understand each other. So they think each other is wrong, right? So a warrior might think an artist

00:42:25.000 is wrong. An art, but, but similarly, an artist might think, well, not everybody needs to be a

00:42:30.320 warrior. Yeah. Well, you're right. Not everybody does. To your point, we need all of the different

00:42:37.440 components to create a thriving society. Herodotus had a, uh, a comment on that. And he said that in

00:42:46.680 fact, art and the artist class, the artist class and the warrior class oftentimes do mesh. Men go to war

00:42:54.820 Freud said, men go to war over hatred. And their Herodotus might've said, men don't go to war

00:43:02.320 because they hate. They go to war because they love. They love their way of life. Their families.

00:43:07.540 They want to defend their country. They want to defend. And the way you do that is you get them

00:43:11.800 to march under what? Propaganda, banners, flags, sayings, uniforms, a mythical history of what your

00:43:23.700 country was and could be again. Those are what artistic stories. There is, there is the narration.

00:43:31.260 C.S. Lewis, when he wrote mere Christianity, those were, those were, um, those were, everybody should

00:43:38.040 read that. Those were essays that he would read on the radio for the Royal Air Force in Britain.

00:43:46.460 And those guys died. I'm telling you one in four, at least one in four, those were young men that knew

00:43:52.220 they were going to die. It was a matter of time. You flew your sorties and you knew you were going

00:43:56.780 to die. And he was reading those on the, on the radio to keep them fucking going, man, to keep them

00:44:02.760 going. So never underestimate the power of story. When there's a book called the nobility of failure

00:44:10.160 that I read as a young man. And it was the kamikaze, the kamikaze, kamikaze in Japanese means

00:44:15.080 divine wind. And, and, and most of the kamikaze were not engineering students or math students.

00:44:22.680 Almost all of them who volunteered to be kamikaze were students of poetry, literature, and things like

00:44:30.420 that. And, and I read this, a beautiful book, and they wrote letters home to their parents. And all of

00:44:37.720 them, all of them were in haiku. And dude, like you read it and you're like, you motherfuckers are

00:44:43.840 dying and you're dying with your eyes open and you have a romantic notion of what you're defending.

00:44:50.720 And it was, it was the, the kamikaze primarily were young, romantic men. They were not, they,

00:44:58.080 they may have been fanatics, but they weren't these hardcore, if you think of Navy SEALs or Delta

00:45:02.660 guys, those guys. Robotic type, like warrior, just grind through it. Just, just, just fucking

00:45:09.060 Spartans. Like dudes, you fucking, you know, they're just made for war. Not so with the kamikaze.

00:45:13.840 Well, I think the same thing about, uh, this is going to sound strange. It sounds, it sounds

00:45:17.380 strange in my head as I'm thinking about it. Even Islamic terrorists, like how do you convince,

00:45:23.260 how, how is a young man so convinced of, of what he's about to do?

00:45:29.040 You create a medieval version of Islam. You, you, we have to bring us back to the caliphate.

00:45:34.140 Yeah. Under, under, when Muhammad was in Medina and Mecca, all was right in the world. That's

00:45:40.100 how you do it. They bathe in, they shave, they bathe in rose water. There's a whole ritual.

00:45:45.240 They read the verses. They're going to heaven, all that stuff, right? They're, they're, they're

00:45:49.620 defending jihad with a capital J, all that stuff. You know, jihad, the, the root in Arabic

00:45:55.480 is struggle. It was the same idea of the struggle between the flesh and the spirit that Christianity

00:46:00.840 has, but. Yeah. Fighting that, I would call it fighting that natural man. Nice body. Nice

00:46:06.460 body, dude.

00:46:11.320 We've got a lot, we've got a lot of good beards in here. A lot of good beards in here.

00:46:15.800 You were talking about art, so I just figured. I get it. I get it. I get it. Yeah. I hijacked

00:46:21.780 this podcast. I hope we're, uh, I'm, I'm just, I'm, I'm engaged, man. I'm just listening.

00:46:26.920 I don't know if you had questions. No, I just, I came here prepared to have a conversation

00:46:31.140 about this and that and wherever it went. So I'm glad it's going this way. Good. I appreciate

00:46:35.860 that. When you, when you talk about, uh, just to rewind a little bit, you know, you talk

00:46:40.200 about the, these ideologues is, and specifically the way that people are not taught how to think

00:46:49.900 what, what is the solution to that? Is it conversations like this? Is it? Yes. I mean,

00:46:56.020 how do you do this on a mass scale though? Because I think you have to fail. These are

00:47:00.320 cycles that go on. And, and, and I think what, what happens is, um, you start to realize

00:47:06.060 the, the, the, the, the, the far left, the woke that I rail against, um, there's nothing

00:47:13.440 to fight against. Sometimes they don't have consistency. They don't have a bedrock that

00:47:19.440 you can anchor into. They don't, there's no bedrock there. What would be, what would

00:47:23.860 be an example of that? Um, um, uh, okay. You have to shut up and listen. Okay, cool. Why

00:47:29.000 are you so quiet? Silence is violence. Um, wait, words are violence. Violence is violence. What

00:47:36.020 do I follow here? What do I, what, what do I, what am I supposed to do here? Uh, I identify

00:47:40.440 as a woman. I identify as a woman. So therefore as a man, I have a beard by identify as a woman

00:47:45.900 and I'm going to go and smash every woman's power lifting record that there ever was swimming

00:47:51.400 record or whatever. Now, now feminists who've worked so hard to, to get reproductive rights

00:47:57.260 and equal rights and all that stuff, all of a sudden go, wait a minute, these are white

00:48:01.600 men who are dressing up as women and they're not even doing hormone therapy or maybe they're

00:48:07.820 saying they are, but they're saying they identify. So the T is grading against the F and, and

00:48:14.440 that, so, so there's no, there's no way to have cohesion here. There's no way to actually

00:48:19.580 figure out a way to galvanize a philosophy that cuts all the way across. So when you talk,

00:48:26.040 here's another example, identity politics. Okay. So we are, if we're going to separate people,

00:48:31.380 if we're going to take white males and put them in the dominant hierarchy box, the, the center

00:48:37.160 of culture. Okay. And they are sort of, they've always been, the culture has organized itself

00:48:42.780 around white supremacy. Okay, fine. Now what we're going to do though, is we're going to

00:48:47.080 give other groups, um, more say by actually shoehorning them into the equation. Okay.

00:48:55.560 Well, now what you have to do though, is you have to represent all groups. All right. So

00:49:00.160 you have to represent, let's take, let's start with black men, but then we have to have black

00:49:03.780 women equally. Well, you have black women arguably have had even a harder time of black

00:49:08.000 men, you could say, but then let's have Asian. What about Asians? And then let's, we have

00:49:11.840 to break down Asians. The ethnic Chinese have done very well. What about the Filipinos? What

00:49:15.980 about the Vietnamese? What about the, where do we put, uh, Pacific Islanders? Um, they've

00:49:21.160 had a hard time of it. Okay. We got to keep going though. Um, let's go with Latin. Now we

00:49:25.520 have, we have the Spanish is very different, of course, than Mexican, which might be different

00:49:28.900 than Cuban. We have to, everybody has their own experience, but that does nothing. We,

00:49:34.200 we, we, we have the next tier, which is women, but then we have to have Middle Eastern women,

00:49:38.940 but then we also have to have, what do we do with Middle Eastern women? Or what do we do

00:49:44.840 with a Pacific Islander woman who's also handicapped? What if she's deaf? What if I'm a white guy

00:49:50.820 with crippling anxiety and terrible agoraphobia? What do we do with that guy? Cause he, he's a white,

00:49:56.480 straight male, but what do we do with a white, straight male? Who's a dwarf, who suffer, who

00:50:01.940 has dwarfism? I mean, he can't reach most of the world. What do we do about that person? And what

00:50:07.340 if we, what if he's also deaf? But how do you, how do you take all these victim classes? I'll tell

00:50:13.000 you. And put them in a hierarchy. The West, the West, the West said you can't. What'd the West say?

00:50:17.520 The West said you can't do that. The way out of that is you treat everybody as an individual,

00:50:23.140 right? No individual. Oh, got it. Sure. Yeah. If you, if you,

00:50:25.980 you can keep categorizing people, black women, how about black women with allergies? How about

00:50:31.360 black women with allergies and lupus? How about black women with allergies, lupus, not attractive

00:50:36.460 in their mid fifties who, uh, uh, you know, uh, who also suffer from, we can just keep going.

00:50:43.380 It's infinite. So whenever you have this intersectionalist, it's called the intersectionalist.

00:50:47.620 So the intersectionalist feminist. Okay. That's where it is. This is the critical race theory

00:50:53.600 argument. Okay. It's white women may have had it harder than white men, but black women have had

00:50:59.860 it way harder and black gay women have had it even harder. And black gay women who aren't attractive,

00:51:05.200 who have a chronic condition have had it even harder. When are we going to stop? The problem is

00:51:12.100 that you will keep breaking up into all different groups so much so that you end up once again with

00:51:17.200 the individual. We've gone through this. We've gone through this. That's why when I talk about

00:51:23.840 these, these crits and I talk about these academics who are writing these books, there's, they just

00:51:29.060 haven't done their reading. They haven't exposed themselves to the, the original thinkers. They're

00:51:34.740 just embarrassing. It's embarrassing. I'm a fucking comic. Why do I know this? Seriously? I don't have

00:51:40.880 time to read this shit. Why do I know this? Honestly, it's embarrassing, man.

00:51:44.960 Well, to go back to what you said earlier about slavery and the history of America and our

00:51:49.680 atonement for it, I think, you know, when somebody hears that they might think, well, okay, atone

00:51:53.860 reparations, right? We got to fix it. But I don't know that that's the solution either, because what

00:51:59.620 did I do to alienate some, what personally, individually, what did I do to alienate a slave

00:52:07.100 from, you know, 200 years ago? Yeah. That's the argument with reparations. But the other,

00:52:11.020 the other question that you, the other inconvenient question is you have to get around

00:52:14.300 blacks started doing very well directly after reconstruction, right before Jim Crow. And then

00:52:21.360 black blacks were doing very well in the twenties in comparison economically and in the fifties

00:52:28.160 economically. It wasn't until the sixties, Thomas Sowell does a very good job of sort of showing the

00:52:34.020 genealogy of this. The breakup of the black family was, was devastating, devastating. We never talk

00:52:42.340 about that. Now that, that, that people, Charles Murray has written a book called losing ground

00:52:46.760 and blames sort of the liberal establishments, um, entire welfare programs where it became cheap.

00:52:53.100 It became more incentivized. Yeah. Because you made more money if there wasn't a man in the house

00:52:58.420 and there was a child without a father and these sorts of things. That's right. Now I don't,

00:53:03.440 I, that's probably true. I don't know that that serves the argument. What, what, what, what I do

00:53:09.400 think is that we know, let's just say this, we know from almost all metrics that a single parent

00:53:15.180 household, primarily a woman raising children without a father has, the child has 15 fucking

00:53:23.400 reasons to fail. I mean, statistically, I mean, it's crazy. Can we agree on that? And can we agree

00:53:30.600 that cultures that put family cohesion above anything else do better? And maybe that has one,

00:53:38.800 that's one of the larger reasons why the ethnic Chinese, for that matter, let's just take black,

00:53:43.820 um, let's take, if we want to do skin color, Nigerians, the Igbo of Nigeria, uh, do so well.

00:53:50.080 They do well here. Very well. Absolutely. Highly educated. The best per capita, financially per

00:53:54.880 capita. More than the Yoruba, more than the Aousa of, of Nigeria. Uh, don't worry about my accent,

00:54:00.200 Yoruba, Aousa. Um, but, but you know, why you, you have to take these things into account.

00:54:06.580 Why doesn't the left ever talk about that? What I like is more and more, I listen to a lot of black

00:54:11.280 and black on black, um, uh, debate between liberal blacks and, and woke blacks and conservative

00:54:17.200 blacks. It's, I love doing it because it's, it's important. It's important. And there's a real,

00:54:21.820 there's a really, there's a real intellectual renaissance going on in the black community

00:54:25.500 where they're all asking these questions. They're going, what the fuck is going on? What's wrong?

00:54:29.940 Right. It's this Democrat socialist left narrative hasn't served us for, we've been voting for these

00:54:35.520 motherfuckers forever. Look at the blue States. Look at California. There's no Republicans in the way.

00:54:41.860 Portland, Washington. I mean, Oregon, Washington. There are no Republicans in the way. These are

00:54:47.320 democratic supermajorities. Look at the result. How's inequality doing? How's that homeless

00:54:53.060 situation? Right. Exactly. What the fuck are we talking about? How is that? How is your regressive

00:54:57.760 tax policy? How is your multi-unit family housing construction going? Not in my backyard, right? You

00:55:03.980 fucking liberals who are always talking about, uh, you know, equality. So we're starting to see this,

00:55:09.960 uh, New York state, uh, are the Republicans all over the place? Is there a Republican in New York?

00:55:15.900 Is there, I don't know. How's Albany in those countries, all those states doing? I've been

00:55:19.500 there. I think the problem is that people think it's the government's job to fix their problems.

00:55:26.540 And it's not, you know, what ends up happening is they come in and they say they're going to fix the

00:55:31.020 problems and they might put a bandaid on something at the expense of something else.

00:55:35.160 But see, it's not, but when you say government, what we do is we trigger people, right? So let's,

00:55:40.180 let's, what you just said is something I agree with, but is it, government actually has, it serves

00:55:45.420 its function? Sure. Yes. But, but, but I think a better way to say it is that sometimes large

00:55:53.080 bureaucracies, top down management isn't the most effective. Sometimes you want localized

00:56:02.160 governance. That's really what we're talking about. Actually what I, what I ideally, what I think

00:56:08.440 has to happen. So, so here's what people will say when I say it's not the government's job to

00:56:12.740 solve problems. Well, you know, what about poor people? What about, uh, those with, with mental

00:56:17.960 illness? Right. It's the individual, the community's job, not the government. It's my job to take care of

00:56:25.560 my neighbor who can't mow their lawn or can't make their mortgage payment. But we've done away with a lot

00:56:31.180 of these institutions like church, for example, uh, programs for young boys, like Boy Scouts of

00:56:37.480 America used to be a great program. And we've done away with those communities that take care of their

00:56:43.920 own. And instead, mommy and daddy government have come in and said, well, you don't worry about those

00:56:49.440 church institutions, afterschool programs, community members. Nah, we'll take care of everything.

00:56:55.500 Well, you know, now you're talking about a fixed point of truth, you know? And, um, so when, when one of the

00:57:03.300 things about Christianity was it focused, this is not my idea, but this is Christianity. When Europe was a

00:57:09.240 Christian nation, this was a Christian country. Sure. I'm not a Christian. I'm not a Christian. But, but when I

00:57:13.600 say this, um, what, what, the advantage of that was that it, it had its disadvantages, but it had its

00:57:18.040 advantages. Its advantages was that it focused the mind. It focused the collective American and European

00:57:23.700 mind. There wasn't really any debate about what was right and wrong. There wasn't debate about how

00:57:27.840 to governance and stuff like that. That's not, that's, that's really helpful when you're moving

00:57:32.060 a country forward in the industrial age, you know? And I think that when Nietzsche said, and he died in

00:57:40.640 1900. So, so when Nietzsche said, God is dead, what he was talking about was that he was looking at

00:57:48.720 the, the, the thought that sprung from the enlightenment. He was looking at, and I'll,

00:57:55.720 I'll break it down. You had Einstein who said time and space are relative. Time is relative. Now think

00:58:02.460 about this. It used to be that there was Newtonian time, that God set a stopwatch and there was an

00:58:08.180 alpha and an omega. There was, there was a beginning and end to time. And that, you know, there was just,

00:58:13.080 we started way back then, but, but Einstein comes along and proves with his mathematics that time

00:58:19.460 is relative. It all depends on how fast you're going. Well, that's nuts. And then you had people

00:58:25.960 predicting, and not only did he do that, he predicted not only that light bends, but, you know, he and

00:58:31.560 Haley and different people predicted the movement of the planets. It's real hard to argue with somebody

00:58:36.680 who says, Hey bro, you're going to see a comet. If you look up in two, three, now, now, oh fuck,

00:58:44.360 that's math. I can't argue with you. He's like a wizard now. And Copernicus who proves, or Galileo,

00:58:48.500 the Copernican revolution. Oh, the sun, uh, the, the, the, the, the earth actually revolves around the

00:58:53.540 sun. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And then you have Freud who comes along and says, Hey guys, uh, this is

00:59:00.500 going to sound weird, but there's something called the conscious mind, the unconscious mind, and the

00:59:04.060 subconscious mind. You have a part of your brain. You're not even aware of. And that part of your

00:59:08.980 brain wants to fuck your mom, your mom. And then Freud, and then a guy named Darwin comes along and

00:59:19.440 goes, Hey, um, life is brutish and short, and it is about the survival of the fittest, but I got one

00:59:25.780 even better for you. It's about sexual selection. So at the end of the day, we all want to fuck and

00:59:32.000 chicks choose the guy who has the most aggression with the broadest shoulders and, and who can kill

00:59:38.100 the, the other males, et cetera, et cetera. So all of a sudden, all our morality, all our notion of

00:59:44.700 time, all our notion of how we think goes out the fucking window, all of it. And then you have

00:59:50.560 Stravinsky's, the rights of spring playwrights of spring for a second, right? Right. So the Picasso

00:59:57.420 comes along with his deconstructionist period. Dali comes along with those clocks that are bent.

01:00:02.880 Melted. Okay. So, so, and, and, and, and, um, Picasso is painting women in cubes. And so

01:00:11.740 everybody in the world is going, Hey man, Aristotle and the Bible are wrong. Like these motherfuckers are,

01:00:20.480 they were calling Freud, a Jew, a Jewish scientist, his Dada science. They, they, it was, it was a

01:00:26.560 disaster for the European and American paradigms with European paradigm of thought. Um, this put

01:00:33.860 on rights of spring. Nobody was playing this music. It's just 1900. This is nuts. This was

01:00:40.020 the mood music. This was the mood music. This, this, uh, this guy named Professor Buchholz said,

01:00:44.900 this is the mood was the mood mood music. Totally deconstructed music.

01:00:55.920 Sharp Fs all over the place.

01:01:02.520 This, nobody was doing this. All music was la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la.

01:01:08.260 I could predict where we were going.

01:01:11.100 Try predicting where this is going.

01:01:12.820 Try.

01:01:14.620 That was the mood music

01:01:15.860 that turned Europe into a slaughterhouse.

01:01:18.280 That was the mood music for World War I,

01:01:21.480 technology that came out of nowhere

01:01:23.160 called the machine gun and nerve gas

01:01:25.340 that killed so many people

01:01:26.960 and the entire idea of how to fight with chivalry

01:01:29.660 with a feather in your fucking hat

01:01:31.600 and charging

01:01:32.520 was the biggest fucking liability in the world.

01:01:35.120 Everybody just,

01:01:35.880 men went down by 60,000 a day.

01:01:38.260 It was a slaughterhouse

01:01:39.860 and it was continued with even more technology

01:01:43.000 like the splitting of the atom,

01:01:45.100 excuse me,

01:01:46.180 harnessing the worst,

01:01:47.400 harnessing nature to destroy 100,000 people in a flash.

01:01:50.360 We could, for the first time in our life,

01:01:52.660 destroy humanity.

01:01:56.020 When that happens

01:01:57.580 and that technology

01:01:58.940 and all that groundwork was laid before 1900,

01:02:02.780 what happened was there was no fixed point of truth.

01:02:05.460 So what happens then?

01:02:06.520 Nietzsche says God is dead.

01:02:07.600 What does that mean?

01:02:08.800 Your Christian God is no good here, my friend.

01:02:11.600 And what happens with human beings

01:02:13.360 is they will create their own religion.

01:02:15.820 And what happens?

01:02:16.800 You come up with ideologies,

01:02:18.160 which are sick religions like communism,

01:02:20.620 like fascism.

01:02:22.040 You understand?

01:02:22.880 That's what happens.

01:02:24.580 And all in the name of,

01:02:27.400 well, we're moving on from religion.

01:02:28.920 We are now going to embrace Nietzsche's ideology.

01:02:32.180 We are now going to create a super race of human beings.

01:02:36.560 Why?

01:02:37.520 Because we can perfect humanity.

01:02:40.200 Because we can create a utopia on earth.

01:02:43.540 Because we can create heaven on earth.

01:02:46.240 Now to create heaven on earth, guys,

01:02:47.960 we got to get rid of the fucking assholes over there.

01:02:51.360 Okay?

01:02:51.720 Those people are corrupting the youth of Athens.

01:02:55.220 And all of us suffer from it.

01:02:57.220 I did it today.

01:02:58.440 I've done it twice today on two podcasts.

01:03:00.800 I have called for the death of the academics.

01:03:04.460 I mean, not directly,

01:03:05.860 but I'm guilty of this too.

01:03:08.320 All of us fall,

01:03:09.360 the founding fathers know that people who are,

01:03:11.600 I'm a good person.

01:03:12.440 I really am.

01:03:13.340 I really am.

01:03:14.200 But boy, I fall into the same shit.

01:03:17.840 I fall, I can be a murderer too.

01:03:19.920 All of us can.

01:03:21.160 And it's important to understand that in yourself.

01:03:23.140 And I made an argument for you today on this podcast

01:03:25.560 and I was wrong, you know,

01:03:27.060 but you see what happens.

01:03:28.500 You see what happens.

01:03:29.460 If you don't have absolute truths,

01:03:31.320 if you don't have truths with capital T's,

01:03:34.020 which is what religion gives you,

01:03:35.420 faith gives you,

01:03:36.000 and I'm not a religious guy,

01:03:37.400 you will find yourself being blown that which way.

01:03:42.960 And it ain't good

01:03:44.320 because all of us, including me,

01:03:46.540 believe that if I was emperor of the world,

01:03:48.340 I would make everything great.

01:03:49.620 I really would.

01:03:50.760 And it would entail getting rid of

01:03:52.460 or silencing the assholes over here.

01:03:54.640 And I'd be wrong.

01:03:56.300 Well, there's something else at play.

01:03:58.940 You alluded to it earlier.

01:04:00.720 And it's the tactic of manipulating language.

01:04:07.560 Wow.

01:04:08.180 Right?

01:04:08.440 So if I can change the definition of things,

01:04:10.660 if I can make things mean one thing

01:04:12.540 that used to mean another thing,

01:04:14.940 and yeah, people will typically combat that with,

01:04:18.560 well, you know, language evolves.

01:04:20.100 Yes, organically, I agree, it evolves,

01:04:22.480 but it is not directly manipulated

01:04:24.620 to try to make things into something they're not,

01:04:27.900 like men into women,

01:04:28.900 women into men, for example,

01:04:30.360 but that's a tactic.

01:04:31.220 You can read Jacques Derrida

01:04:32.840 and Michel Foucault,

01:04:35.560 the French,

01:04:36.160 the French Algerian asshole Derrida,

01:04:39.520 another fucking,

01:04:40.740 another zero

01:04:41.940 who wrote,

01:04:43.600 who contributed nothing to the Western logos

01:04:45.820 because, well,

01:04:46.540 he considered the logos to be corrupt.

01:04:48.680 The idea was that if you,

01:04:50.500 that human beings,

01:04:51.340 when you speak in binary terms,

01:04:52.940 male, female,

01:04:53.660 hot, cold, yin, yang,

01:04:54.900 you will always inherently favor one over the other.

01:04:58.720 You'll favor one.

01:04:59.920 You'll just naturally be prejudiced,

01:05:02.020 and which, you know,

01:05:02.860 male over female,

01:05:04.040 we just do that.

01:05:04.940 If you live in a binary world,

01:05:06.960 if you have categories,

01:05:08.120 you're always gonna favor one category or the other.

01:05:10.480 The way to get rid of all prejudice,

01:05:13.140 all prejudice,

01:05:14.300 is by getting rid of all categories.

01:05:16.860 You can't have,

01:05:17.900 you can't have male, female,

01:05:19.800 you gotta,

01:05:20.140 you can't have,

01:05:21.040 you can't even have,

01:05:22.160 if you're gonna write a philosophy,

01:05:23.300 you should erase it with your left hand

01:05:24.900 while you're doing it

01:05:25.960 because even to state that there's a truth

01:05:28.660 or a position

01:05:29.400 will create biases in your own brain,

01:05:32.660 he's such a dick.

01:05:34.140 He's such a piece of shit.

01:05:35.940 He's a dude.

01:05:37.100 Now, Derrida just grew up,

01:05:39.020 he's a tiny little guy,

01:05:40.340 he was Jewish in a Muslim country, Algeria,

01:05:43.160 he never made the soccer team,

01:05:44.920 and he grew up with terrible,

01:05:46.720 terrible anti-Semitism.

01:05:48.760 He was probably,

01:05:49.760 grew up so humiliated

01:05:51.380 watching his parents,

01:05:53.040 I mean,

01:05:53.360 probably feared for his life,

01:05:54.380 they had to leave,

01:05:55.120 they came to France.

01:05:56.140 This is a very angry little man.

01:05:58.220 So,

01:05:58.680 let's not take Derrida too seriously,

01:06:00.340 but if you wanna know

01:06:01.080 who took the,

01:06:02.360 that philosophy

01:06:03.380 and applied it to

01:06:04.640 the trans movement,

01:06:06.280 it would be the gender Nazis.

01:06:09.240 Thank you, everybody.

01:06:10.540 Thank you.

01:06:11.540 Well,

01:06:12.120 Brian,

01:06:12.540 that went in a completely different direction

01:06:14.020 than I thought.

01:06:14.600 I'm sorry, brother,

01:06:14.780 we'll do it again.

01:06:15.120 But I love it.

01:06:15.780 We'll do it again.

01:06:16.500 I didn't expect this,

01:06:17.580 but I'm glad it went this way.

01:06:19.380 And let's do it again.

01:06:20.520 Anytime.

01:06:20.800 I imagine if we do it again,

01:06:22.400 it's gonna go

01:06:23.100 in another completely different direction

01:06:24.880 than I expected.

01:06:25.960 Which is all good.

01:06:26.840 That's what I'm after.

01:06:27.760 Well,

01:06:27.900 I appreciate you knowing so much.

01:06:29.380 I appreciate it, man.

01:06:29.580 I appreciate you knowing.

01:06:30.020 I don't know if I do.

01:06:30.760 I just interject occasionally

01:06:32.560 to make people think I do.

01:06:33.820 I don't know, dude.

01:06:34.280 And then I just listen.

01:06:34.840 You know the names.

01:06:35.620 It says a lot about you.

01:06:36.760 And you've taken your time

01:06:38.700 and it means that you care.

01:06:40.040 Well, I appreciate you.

01:06:41.140 I appreciate people like you who care.

01:06:42.200 You have a lot of compassion,

01:06:43.200 I can tell.

01:06:43.720 And I know you do too, man.

01:06:45.360 You know.

01:06:45.720 Thank you, brother.

01:06:46.300 Appreciate it.

01:06:46.900 I like you guys, man.

01:06:48.040 Anything you need,

01:06:48.840 anytime, man.

01:06:49.640 It's an honor for me to do it.

01:06:51.020 Likewise.

01:06:51.560 And I'm sorry that I might have hijacked it,

01:06:53.660 but it was fun to talk about it.

01:06:54.180 It's all good.

01:06:54.820 I was like,

01:06:55.440 okay, my mind's blown.

01:06:56.720 I'm like, wait, what?

01:06:58.400 What did you,

01:06:59.080 before we go,

01:06:59.600 what did you plan on talking about?

01:07:01.200 I usually don't,

01:07:02.180 I used to come with plans.

01:07:03.460 Yeah.

01:07:03.980 And like,

01:07:04.440 when I started podcasting,

01:07:05.740 I would literally have a list

01:07:06.800 of like 10 questions.

01:07:08.500 And then somebody would give me an answer.

01:07:09.900 I'm like,

01:07:10.280 cool, cool, cool.

01:07:10.920 Hold on.

01:07:11.420 No, don't elaborate.

01:07:12.920 I got to get to my next question.

01:07:14.960 And so I don't do that.

01:07:15.900 Well, you gave me a knife, dude.

01:07:17.040 You threw me off.

01:07:17.780 Gentlemen, there you go.

01:07:21.200 My conversation with the one

01:07:22.560 and only Brian Callen.

01:07:24.340 I hope you enjoyed that conversation

01:07:26.160 as much as I did.

01:07:27.880 I did not expect it to go

01:07:29.620 the way that it did.

01:07:30.540 In fact,

01:07:30.900 I didn't really have any expectations.

01:07:32.340 I try not to.

01:07:33.220 I sit down and want to have honest

01:07:35.100 and sincere,

01:07:35.780 genuine discussions with people.

01:07:37.180 But I'm really,

01:07:38.100 really glad that the conversation

01:07:40.000 went the way that it did

01:07:41.100 because I was blown away

01:07:43.060 and I learned new information

01:07:44.760 that I was not aware of previously.

01:07:46.680 And I hope you're walking away

01:07:49.200 a little bit more informed

01:07:50.160 or at least wanting to ask

01:07:51.820 some more questions

01:07:52.640 about yourself and life

01:07:54.240 and culture and society in general.

01:07:55.980 So guys,

01:07:56.600 if you would make sure

01:07:57.280 you connect with Brian

01:07:58.100 on Instagram or Twitter,

01:08:00.080 I think that's where

01:08:00.640 he's most active as am I.

01:08:02.500 So connect with me there.

01:08:03.820 Do me a favor.

01:08:04.400 Just take a quick screenshot.

01:08:06.640 Let people know

01:08:07.600 what you're listening to.

01:08:08.500 Let them know you like this episode

01:08:09.840 and they should listen to it as well.

01:08:11.280 That goes a long,

01:08:12.460 long way in promoting

01:08:14.020 the visibility of the

01:08:15.420 Order of Man podcast

01:08:16.280 and what we're trying to do here

01:08:17.500 and put out into the world.

01:08:18.860 Also,

01:08:19.280 take a look at

01:08:20.060 The Fighter and the Kid.

01:08:20.840 That's Brian's podcast.

01:08:21.940 Look at his comedy tour dates

01:08:23.320 and stay connected.

01:08:26.440 Guys,

01:08:26.760 we'll be back tomorrow

01:08:27.860 for our Ask Me Anything.

01:08:29.720 But until then,

01:08:30.480 go out there,

01:08:31.280 take action

01:08:31.860 and become the man

01:08:32.940 you are meant to be.

01:08:34.280 Thank you for listening

01:08:35.080 to the Order of Man podcast.

01:08:37.160 You're ready to take charge

01:08:38.220 of your life

01:08:38.800 and be more of the man

01:08:39.940 you were meant to be.

01:08:41.200 We invite you to join the order

01:08:42.520 at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - February 01, 2022

BRYAN CALLEN ｜ Moral Relativism, Personal Responsibility, and the Dangers of Academia

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