Order of Man - Building a Code of Conduct, Operating in a Soft Culture, Dealing with Differences in Opinion

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:04.980 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.440 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.220 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.780 you can call yourself a man. Mr. Kip Sorensen, good to see you, man. Good to see you. I'm excited

00:00:29.120 about the upgrade in your studio. You just continue to look better and better. Actually,

00:00:33.860 it's not that you are looking better. It's that your backdrop looks better, which is just making

00:00:37.840 you better by default. That's why I married my wife. I just look better by default just by hanging

00:00:44.960 around her. Yeah, because most of the time, if they were just to look at her, they wouldn't even

00:00:48.780 recognize or see you. I think that's the best strategy we can employ for sure. I may not want

00:00:56.720 to admit this, but it's not uncommon that I'm referred as Asia's husband. So that's how large

00:01:04.780 her shadow is that overcasts who I am as an individual, my self-worth. Well, actually,

00:01:09.880 I don't know if you knew this or not, but your new nickname is actually Asia's husband. So that's

00:01:15.800 what guys are going to be knowing you by on the podcast from now on. And your alter ego. Did you

00:01:20.960 see what your alter ego is now? No, no, no. Did you see what your alter ego is now?

00:01:26.480 I'm trying. I think I think we talked about this last week. Chip Jorgensen.

00:01:31.960 Yeah. So you're either Asia's husband or your chip. One of the two.

00:01:38.300 Oh man. All right, man. Here's what I'm thinking. Yeah. We're a couple of minutes into this thing

00:01:43.560 already. And I listened to last week's podcast, mostly because I like the sound of my own voice.

00:01:48.240 And I realized we went for like 25 minutes before we even answered a question. So let's just jump

00:01:54.600 into the questions this week and we'll hash through as many as we possibly can.

00:01:58.920 Yeah. Progress. All right. Yes. We're getting better guys. Bear with us. All right. Our initial,

00:02:03.600 our initial group of questions are from the iron council to learn more order man.com slash iron

00:02:09.180 council grant, uh, Grinswig. Have you done any podcast episodes on rucking in the past? Also give us

00:02:18.120 an update on order man hats and shirts. So just kind of a, I kept this one in here cause I'm going

00:02:23.220 to give updates of, uh, of swag for everybody. You just want to sell more merchandise, which I,

00:02:28.520 which I can appreciate. You know, I can definitely appreciate that. Uh, Hey, let me say one actual

00:02:33.840 thing before we get into this question. Uh, we are going to do a, a better job of ensuring,

00:02:41.480 uh, that we're filtering the questions because we're getting so many questions at this point.

00:02:46.860 We just can't possibly answer all of them. So we're just pulling out the best ones. So Grant,

00:02:51.000 I think his name is congratulations. You made the cut mostly because you gave us an opportunity to

00:02:55.820 sell something, uh, outside of that, your question probably would have been declined. All right.

00:03:01.300 What was the first part of the question? Actually, can I be all honest here? I actually had Grant's

00:03:07.680 question grayed out. And then I started reading it. I was like, wait a second. I meant to skip this

00:03:12.780 question. Grant just wants to know about shirts. Yes. There's shirts. There's hats. Go to the store

00:03:18.860 moving on. Yeah. Go to the store, a store.orderofman.com. And we've got, I don't have an

00:03:23.420 order of man shirt on today. You do. So there's one of the good looking shirts. I've got an order

00:03:27.200 of man hat on. Uh, we've got a new iron sharpens iron shirt that will be available, uh, in two or

00:03:33.700 three days. And also we have the kids battle planner that is now available as well.

00:03:39.300 There was another part to Grant's question though, that I actually didn't want to answer. What was

00:03:43.700 it? Um, any episodes planned around? Yes. Uh, stay tuned. Uh, Jason McCarthy, the founder and owner

00:03:54.060 of GoRuck. He's actually joined us in the past. He just wrote a new book called, I believe it's called

00:03:59.660 how not to build a backpack company or something like that. Uh, anyways, I'm interviewing him tomorrow.

00:04:05.340 So, so the podcast will be available in a couple of weeks, obviously go Ruck, huge Rucking organization.

00:04:13.180 We're going to talk a lot about that. So stay tuned. All right, let's move on.

00:04:16.560 And he was on the podcast already.

00:04:18.720 He was probably a couple of years ago when I, when I sucked at this. So, uh, just don't listen to it.

00:04:24.460 Just wait two weeks and it'll be better than it was two years ago.

00:04:27.300 The new app.

00:04:28.940 That's right.

00:04:29.500 All right. Copy. All right. Dan Harrison, uh, why is a personal code of conduct so important?

00:04:36.560 If a man does not have a code, what is your recommended process for making one? And, and I

00:04:42.480 thought this was, if you don't mind me kind of grouping two questions together, Aaron Goats,

00:04:48.080 I'm reading seven habits of highly effective people. Stephen Covey, the author discusses creating

00:04:52.860 your own personal mission statement. Do either of you have a personal mission statement? If so,

00:04:57.540 how often do you revise it and et cetera. So very similar questions might as well tackle to it with

00:05:03.180 one response here. Yeah. I think a code of conduct and, or a mission state statement is very, very

00:05:09.060 important because when you get in the heat of the moment, if you don't already know how you're going

00:05:14.560 to act, it's going to be very easy for you to make a dumb decision based on either a, your emotions

00:05:20.560 or be your dick. So having a code of conduct will allow you to make the right decisions based on a

00:05:31.200 principled level-headed approach before you get into the quote unquote heat of battle, whether that's

00:05:38.100 being tempted by your cute secretary or, uh, compromising your morals or principles to make a

00:05:45.700 sale, to make a little bit more money. If you have a code of conduct, it's going to keep you on path.

00:05:51.040 It's going to keep you on track prior to getting into the heat of the moment. And that is very,

00:05:56.040 very important because I'll tell you, I hear from guys who step out on their wives and I've said it

00:05:59.840 before. These guys say, Oh, you know, I just lost myself, right? I got lost or caught up in the moment,

00:06:05.760 right? Because you didn't make the decision beforehand. And here's the other thing about making these

00:06:11.440 decisions beforehand. If you have this code of conduct or a mission statement in place,

00:06:16.340 you are less likely to get yourself in these weird, awkward, uncomfortable, and potentially

00:06:21.320 dangerous circumstances because you make the right decisions leading up to the potential event.

00:06:27.960 So guys, I know this isn't sexy. I know this isn't glamorous. I know it's going to take time and

00:06:33.080 energy, but I promise you, if you want to maintain your course of action, if you want to do what's right,

00:06:38.760 if you want to have the actions that are going to produce the best possible results for you,

00:06:44.060 you will begin to think about it upfront and ahead of time over your left shoulder, Kip. I see

00:06:49.340 sovereignty, the battle for the hearts and minds of men, maybe to your right shoulder. I don't know

00:06:53.200 if it's mirroring or what, but it's over your shoulder. Yeah. Good point. Which one is it left or

00:06:57.560 right? I got to know now. I don't know. I mean, it's over my left, but I don't know if it gets

00:07:04.740 to me too. That's how it's looking to me too. So it's over Kip's left shoulder in there. There's

00:07:10.700 an, a, uh, so he asked, how do you do this? You buy the book. Okay. It's like, whatever it is,

00:07:16.140 eight bucks or nine bucks on, on audible, maybe 15 to 20 bucks to buy the book, get the book in.

00:07:22.920 I believe I want to say the third chat or a section of the book. Uh, it will walk you through

00:07:30.300 how to create your own code of conduct so that you know exactly what you're going to do, how you're

00:07:36.800 going to behave, what principles drive you, what virtues you want to espouse and how you want to

00:07:41.780 live your life before you make a dumb decision or do something stupid. Yeah. Hmm. I can't help,

00:07:51.660 but it's funny. We set goals, right? Everyone's all about goals. Oh, well, it's deed, uh, in a

00:07:59.580 particular way financially or to have fitness goals or whatever, but where's the goal for how you choose

00:08:05.820 to show up in life? Like where's the goal of like, what kind of man you are? We, we skipped that part.

00:08:13.680 And in the grand scheme of things, what ultimately matters your circumstances and the outcome or how you

00:08:19.940 showed up regardless of your circumstances, right? That's ultimately what defines you as a man,

00:08:24.680 but yet we never, by default, we're not intentional about that. We're intentional about the outcomes.

00:08:31.140 We're not intentional about how we should go up. And, and that's, that's kind of how I see a code

00:08:35.960 of conduct and mission. It, it is how you plan to show up, which ultimately defines the kind of man you

00:08:41.840 are. You know, it really reminds me as you're talking about this and Marcus Aurelius is quote,

00:08:46.360 waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be, be one. And I bring that up because

00:08:52.580 you need to understand that at its foundational level. Like once you figure out the foundational

00:08:58.060 elements of how you operate your life, everything else will fall in line.

00:09:02.920 You'll start to make more money. You'll attract, uh, better, more high caliber women. Uh, you'll connect

00:09:09.680 deeper with your kids and your wife and the people that matter to you. Like everything else will fall

00:09:14.440 into place. If you get the foundation, right? If you don't get the foundation, right? You actually

00:09:20.120 might still win as certain elements of your life. I see highly, highly successful businessmen

00:09:25.100 who, like I said, very successful in the business front and are absolutely miserable on the home

00:09:32.860 front. All right. These are guys that have figured out not the foundational level of who they are as men,

00:09:37.240 but how to sell or how to run a business. It's valuable stuff. But if you don't have the foundation

00:09:43.660 figured out, you can never be that well-rounded, all encompassing man that you're trying to be.

00:09:49.340 So build the foundation first, when you're building a new home or a multi million dollar

00:09:56.080 business project, what do you do? You pour the foundation first. And even before that you test

00:10:04.580 the dirt, you test the soil. If there's any sort of clay, you're probably going to nix it,

00:10:09.440 or you're going to do something to shore up that foundation, but it's always the foundation.

00:10:13.080 You don't start building the walls or putting the roof on or the windows in or doing the after

00:10:17.000 the, the, the finished work before you build the foundation. That would be ridiculous.

00:10:22.940 And yet we do that all the time in our lives. It's like, Oh, just go. I'm just going to work

00:10:27.640 out. I just want to work out. Well, why are you working out? I don't know. I'm just going to work

00:10:30.300 out. I'm just going to do this project. Why is that important to you? I don't know if somebody

00:10:34.100 told me I'm supposed to do that. Whoa, wait, like you're putting the cart before the horse.

00:10:39.540 All right. Get the foundation figured out. It's going to take you some time and a lot of energy

00:10:44.200 and it's not a one and done type thing. But once you start getting that stuff dialed in

00:10:47.600 all the pieces almost miraculously start to fall into place. I say almost because it's not a miracle.

00:10:54.000 It's just the way it works. Yeah. I can't remember if you covered this in sovereignty,

00:10:59.160 Ryan, but, um, one of Aaron's was like, how often are you revising this?

00:11:03.220 Every day. I mean, I'm, I'm legitimately, you're reading it and you're like, I need to adjust this.

00:11:10.460 Yeah. Right. I'm legitimately looking. I've got, I've got posters and all kinds of things that

00:11:15.740 remind me of how my code of conduct is right there staring in front of me. I got another one that my

00:11:20.640 boys and I created right here. I got a Theodore Roosevelt's man in the arena. I've got a poem that

00:11:26.040 my son wrote right there. I've got different images and pictures and little things that remind me of

00:11:31.960 how I want to operate. And so I'm looking at these things and being reminded every day. And I'm

00:11:36.000 looking at, I'm like, yeah, I still want to do that. Or, you know, that's not as relevant as it

00:11:39.420 once was. And so maybe I need to tweak that, but yeah, if you're not looking at it every day,

00:11:44.100 I mean, how are you going to stick to it? Like the, the pull, the draws from, and I, I've called

00:11:50.660 it the doctrine of popular culture. This is a degenerate society that we live in. We're tempted with

00:11:55.340 money and women and sex and drugs and all the things that sedate us. It's, it's a degenerate

00:12:01.940 society that we live in. And if we're not inundated just as much as we are with sexy ads

00:12:08.560 and pornography and drugs and all and alcohol and other, if we're not inundated with the things that

00:12:13.260 keep us on the right path, it would be very easy, especially for my personality guys. I tend to be

00:12:18.480 very, very obsessive, compulsive. I get addicted very quickly. And I can channel that towards the

00:12:27.840 right outlets, or I can channel that towards the wrong outlets. And, and by default, the doctrine

00:12:34.020 of popular culture is telling me to get addicted to the wrong things. And so I have to, I don't want

00:12:41.000 to say shelter, but I have to secure myself, arm myself against the doctrine of popular culture by

00:12:48.740 having these little reminders, poems and writings and, and pictures and images and, uh, uh, items that

00:12:56.020 keep me on the right path. And then being around the right man and having, you know, the systems

00:13:01.220 in place of my battle planner, because it is very easy for personality like mine to go off the rails.

00:13:07.040 You know, it was funny. I was listening to, uh, Joe Rogan really enjoy his podcast. And I was

00:13:12.140 listening to one that normally I wouldn't listen to is with Rob Lowe. And it was really, it's really

00:13:16.560 good. I'm listening to it right now. And, uh, Rob Lowe said he stopped drinking alcohol 30 years ago.

00:13:23.280 And Joe Rogan was like, well, that must take a lot of discipline. He's like, no, actually it doesn't.

00:13:29.100 He's like, I just know it would be, it would take more discipline for me to, to dabble in,

00:13:34.720 in drinking because he knows that if he were to drink a little bit, then it's like, okay,

00:13:38.520 now what's next. And you get into drugs and you get the hardcore stuff. So he's like, I just abstain

00:13:42.800 from it altogether. So it actually has little to do with discipline and more to do with just avoidance

00:13:47.460 altogether. And that's how I look at my life. Like stay away from that. It's not going to take you

00:13:51.560 down the right path, focus over here, inoculate yourself with these other little things that keep

00:13:56.520 you on track. And it's worked for me. So I think it'll work for a lot of guys.

00:14:02.100 Totally. At one point we should have the conversation around the personality types and

00:14:08.120 drug addictions. There's actually studies that like certain drugs are more appealing to certain

00:14:13.100 personality types. It's not just like a blanketed addiction. It's really interesting. Like I know

00:14:18.420 without a doubt, like speed would be my speed would be a problem for me. Yeah. Like with

00:14:25.060 something that would hype you up. Like marijuana, not yeah. Marijuana does not appeal to me at all.

00:14:30.200 Like it just, I don't even think it would work for me. Have you ever smoked marijuana or had an

00:14:34.840 edible or anything like that? No. Okay. It just doesn't like, it doesn't even appeal to me. I watch

00:14:41.800 movies like limitless and I'm like, damn, I want some of that. I want that. I'm with you. Cause I've

00:14:47.060 tried like when I was younger, I smoked some marijuana, you know, I smoked some pot, things

00:14:51.760 like that. Um, in the not too distant past, I tried an edible cause I'm like, well, like,

00:14:58.660 okay, let's try it. Let's see. You know? And I tried it. I hate it, man. I hate it. Like some

00:15:05.500 people like, Oh, this is awesome. You know, everything's casual. I'm like, I don't want

00:15:08.920 to be relaxed. I want to destroy everything. And I want to have the energy and speed to be able to do

00:15:14.520 it. So these depressors, these downers, no, sir, I want something that's going to hot me up and

00:15:19.760 make me more productive. So I'm with you on that for sure. Yeah. I've taken high. Um, what's the

00:15:25.400 typical, like hunch painkillers? Um, is it like Oxycontin or whatever? Yeah. I stay away from that

00:15:34.140 stuff. I can't stand it. I would rather, I'd rather feel the pain. I'd rather feel the pain. Cause it

00:15:38.740 just clogs my head and I just feel disoriented. I'm like, it, I don't know. It just makes me feel

00:15:44.320 worse. Like I'd rather just take on the pain than like numb it and be disoriented.

00:15:48.400 Are you one of those guys who like, likes the pain a little? I am. I like the pain. It makes me

00:15:53.160 think that, okay, I did something and this is a result of me actually using my body. And so I like

00:15:59.360 it barring something that's like debilitating, you know? Yeah. I, how's this when, when I'm training

00:16:07.760 and someone catches my face and it scrapes me or I get like, we accidental head, but I almost like,

00:16:14.060 want to head, but again, I know that sounds weird, but I'm kind of like, yeah. And then I'm just

00:16:20.820 like, like punch me. Like I want to ask for some punches all of a sudden it's, uh, it's kind of

00:16:26.400 weird. So I was, I was rolling with, uh, with Brian Littlefield. He's a co-owner with origin. So

00:16:32.200 I was rolling with him the other day and he's a Brown belt. Very good. Very hard to like do anything

00:16:37.740 with. Like he's just really good. Yeah. And I can't remember exactly how he had me, but

00:16:42.860 he like stuck his knuckles into my ribs and, and he was like, and after we stopped, you

00:16:48.820 know, and whatever. And he's like, that was a little bit of dirty jujitsu. I'm sorry.

00:16:52.320 I'm like, you know, I actually kind of like it. Like I actually like, go ahead, stick your

00:16:57.680 forearm in my, in my forehead or my cheekbone, dig your knuckles into my ribs. I'm like, that's

00:17:02.440 the game I like. I have no problem. You being a little dirty. It's, it's awesome. Cause I'm

00:17:06.740 going to do it back to you so I can hold my own. And I like dirty jujitsu, man. It's

00:17:11.280 no problem. Yeah. Sounds like a good t-shirt in the future. Dirty jujitsu. Sounds nasty,

00:17:18.080 man. Yeah. Well, and John Gill and actually had a question today's like, you know, is it

00:17:24.220 normal to have bruised ribs and chest pain while training? And, and I don't know about

00:17:28.600 you, but I don't think I've had more injuries that then rib related. It happens all the time.

00:17:36.040 I'm dealing with popped ribs, cracked ribs, bruised ribs all the time. So yeah, I've got

00:17:41.600 a, I, we have a chiropractor that we use and he makes house calls. It's, which is awesome.

00:17:46.940 Like he just comes to our place. In fact, he came this morning at school. And so I trained

00:17:50.720 this morning and then I got home an hour later, the chiropractor came over and he worked me

00:17:55.280 out. He's like, are you dealing with anything? What's going on? I said, I'm just dealing with

00:17:57.900 a little bit of rib issue on my back. And he's like, oh yeah, he's like, can we feel?

00:18:01.440 And so he spent some time feeling it. He's like, yeah, you know, it's, it's not bad,

00:18:04.480 but yeah, you got some rib issues. So I think that's pretty normal.

00:18:10.180 Yeah. Yeah. Super normal. I'll tell you one thing I was doing that I was, I bet I haven't

00:18:15.660 had that fortunately, but I, I was training last week and we've got, I've got a fellow blue belt.

00:18:21.340 He's probably been a blue belt for a year or two now. So he's probably getting close to his

00:18:25.900 next advancement. Um, and he's, he's just big and he's solid and he loves the pressure game.

00:18:32.740 So he knows how to use it really, really well. And I told him, I'm like, look, I got a rib problem.

00:18:39.500 Just take it easy on this side. And so he passed my guard twice while we were rolling. And I said,

00:18:44.380 okay, just stop, just come over to this other side. And so I, I said, you can still take side

00:18:50.860 control. That's fine. Just do it on this side. So we stopped and he switched. And then I'm like,

00:18:54.780 okay, go. And we did that twice. Cause I'm like, I can't have you on the side on this side. Cause

00:18:58.820 my rib just hurts. If you just let people know, like they're respectful of it and you can work

00:19:03.660 through it. Just don't be stupid. Like try to like fight through it. Just you guys are, it's

00:19:09.400 cooperation. It's not competition. So cooperate with each other and help each other out.

00:19:14.560 Yeah. And, and it's amazing how those rib injuries have helped me learn how to protect my ribs.

00:19:21.520 Totally. Where before I would just train. Now it's like big guy coming. I'm like flexing my core.

00:19:28.780 I'm keeping it flexed the entire time in preparation of like pressure, you know, and it's funny. You

00:19:34.600 don't think about that stuff until you get a couple cracked ribs and all of a sudden you're like, okay,

00:19:39.500 I don't want to do that again. Yeah. You don't want that to happen. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

00:19:43.800 All right. Paramet ball. Uh, one thing I truly struggle with is talking about order of men

00:19:49.480 outside my close trusted friends. I have a lot of very liberal progressive friends.

00:19:55.360 I'm fairly liberal myself. And I know if I start talking about a men's group to them,

00:20:00.240 I'm going to get into a ton of discussions and heated arguments and get upset for no reason,

00:20:05.460 which leads me to being in a bad mood. I do wear shirts and caps. Appreciate that. But when some of

00:20:12.660 my friends ask about that or my favorite podcast, I'm very hesitant to share the message.

00:20:18.440 I do want to share it, but I don't want to get into debates. So my question is what are some good

00:20:24.100 ways to talk about these things to people who might not be accepting of it without getting me

00:20:29.440 upset about it? I wouldn't. I mean, I wouldn't worry about it. Yeah. Look, you've got to decide if

00:20:37.300 these people are open and receptive and there's some differences of opinion, that's one thing.

00:20:41.360 But if these individuals are like hardcore lefties and, and they don't believe in personal

00:20:47.780 accountability and responsibility, like, what are you possibly going to share with them?

00:20:52.060 That's going to, I mean, that's at the core. Isn't that what we talk about? Personal accountability

00:20:57.020 and responsibility that at the core, if people don't believe in that and lefties don't believe

00:21:01.520 in that, not, not liberals. Okay. Lefties, they don't believe in that. They believe in big brother,

00:21:06.840 big sister coming in to rescue them, to save them, big government, help us out, rescue us from our

00:21:11.380 own decisions because we can't possibly do it on our own. That's what lefties believe at their core.

00:21:15.540 That's what they believe. And that's why it's all about big government and somebody else coming to

00:21:19.360 rescue and keep us protected from the, these oppressors that we've made up in our mind or

00:21:24.360 ourselves. Right. Yeah. So look, you've got to decide on where on that spectrum do they fall?

00:21:31.300 Do they think that, you know, like they don't believe in personal accountability and responsibility

00:21:37.780 at all. And in that case, just have some drinks with them and just enjoy being present with them.

00:21:43.580 If I, I can't even imagine hanging out with people like that, but let's say you're hanging out with

00:21:48.060 people like that, just whatever, for whatever reason, maybe you're a glutton for punishment,

00:21:53.040 whatever, just, just do that without bringing up order of man. If they question it, like if it's

00:21:58.180 genuine and honest and sincere questions, like, Oh, order a man, what's that? Or, Hey, I've no,

00:22:02.560 I know you're in like a men's group. What is it that you do? Talk about the principles. Oh, you know,

00:22:08.220 we're an accountability group. So I'm just trying to improve myself. And other guys are trying to

00:22:12.920 improve themselves. And we've just made an agreement that we're going to hold each other accountable to

00:22:16.540 doing it. And then I listened to the podcast and Ryan interviews, incredible men, guys like authors

00:22:24.460 and scholars and warriors, New York times, bestselling authors, uh, professional athletes

00:22:30.280 to try to get some of their, their wisdom and distill it down in a way that we can apply it in

00:22:36.140 our own lives. I think there's very few people on the planet who wouldn't see the value in that.

00:22:43.680 Yep. So now look, my, my case is different. I like to be polarizing and I don't mind if somebody's

00:22:51.180 pissed off. And if I can piss off the right people and I'm all about it, but I realized 80 to 90% of

00:22:58.800 people don't want to do that. And so don't do that. Just talk about the principles. If they're

00:23:03.440 open and receptive to it, if they're not just have a drink, watch a movie, play a game, have a dinner,

00:23:09.740 whatever it is you're doing, order a man doesn't even need to get brought up.

00:23:13.180 Yeah. I think the example that we use of, of speaking with children and, and I'm not belittling

00:23:20.000 his friends, but, but we adjust the message, right? Like I can talk really technical with

00:23:27.540 certain people and I can go really high level with other individuals. I can explain a basic

00:23:32.580 principle to a child where I might deep dive into someone else. If I know someone is maybe a little

00:23:38.040 more left than I, and they say, what, what's going on? I'm going to simplify it and go straight to the

00:23:43.380 principle. It's a group of men that I'm a part of. We help hold each other accountable to become

00:23:48.280 better men, period, period. Right. And then if there's, yeah. And if there's a bigger interest

00:23:53.840 and we want to talk about it, awesome. Then we can deep dive, but you know, your audience, adjust

00:23:58.940 your, adjust your message a little bit so they can understand it. But I, I, I want to get into it

00:24:03.720 all the time either. Yeah. I mean, there's conversations that I just won't have, for example,

00:24:08.760 with my sister, like flat out, I just won't have those conversations and we have a great

00:24:14.780 relationship. Uh, we, we have conversations. We can talk about a lot of different things

00:24:19.100 and there's like 3% of the conversations that we just can't have. And we don't have them because

00:24:24.920 you know what? I don't care. I don't care. You're not the business of changing her mind. Yeah.

00:24:30.520 No, I'm not. And you know, and if I had expectations of her and she had expectations of me,

00:24:35.820 then maybe we'd be feel like we're forced to have those conversations. I don't care. Like if you see

00:24:41.140 it different than me, than me, cool. Then live your life. I hope you're happy. I hope you're

00:24:45.320 successful. However you define that. And let's talk about the other 97% of things. And I'm completely

00:24:52.100 fine with that. Yeah. Okay. All right. Jay, by the way, Jay and other guys in the IC, I should be,

00:25:01.140 if anyone, I should be pouncing their names correctly. It should appear. I'd be the guys from

00:25:05.420 the iron council. That's true. I'm not going to, I'm not going to on that. No, I know. I was hoping

00:25:10.860 you'd give me an out like, Oh no, it's okay. Kip. You can be mediocre. Uh, yeah. Like, I don't

00:25:17.140 know. Don't listen to the order of man podcast. If that's what you're looking for. Cause it's like

00:25:21.180 the order of mediocrity, the order of complacency. Uh, there's another podcast out there that would

00:25:27.560 be better suited for that. Yeah. Or just act like you let your human nature stake over. And

00:25:34.400 that's just how you'll show up by default. Yeah. All right. Jay has worked trying to be a good man

00:25:39.740 versus just being a good man. Lately. It feels like I'm just checking off the boxes for a lot

00:25:46.120 of us, at least guys, my age are our grandfathers were part of the greatest generation. And we've

00:25:52.960 referenced that generation a few times in the IC. I imagine they didn't have to try to be good men.

00:25:58.120 They just were, I guess there wasn't really much of a question, but I wanted to get your thoughts.

00:26:02.780 Yeah. I actually had an interesting conversation on another podcast about this very subject,

00:26:08.600 uh, just yesterday. And in, in modern times, you actually have to choose to be a man

00:26:16.020 a hundred years ago. You did not forced upon you. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred years ago. You didn't have to,

00:26:22.120 right. You were working the farm, you were working the land. There was more violent encounters. There

00:26:26.200 was wars and, uh, it was just a more difficult, rough time. And so you either became a man or you

00:26:33.980 died. Literally you died. The elements killed you. You had no food, nobody there to rescue you. So you

00:26:40.420 died. So what was your only option to die or to step into masculinity and do what men do.

00:26:46.720 But today we built this incredible society that gives us access to information and access to food.

00:26:54.100 Unlike we've ever had where we live in climate controlled buildings. Very rarely do we go

00:26:58.920 outside the risk of us being in a violent, violent encounter. Although maybe it's gone up over the past

00:27:04.540 three to six months is greater, but generally speaking lower than it's ever been, except for Jay's

00:27:10.680 line of work, he's a police officer. So it's more violent for him. Like he, he, he, in a way has to

00:27:16.320 choose and volunteer to be a man more so than a lot of people. So knowing that you have to decide what

00:27:26.480 kind of choice are you going to make? And I know there's hundreds of thousands of men who listen to

00:27:30.840 this podcast. We won't say men will say it this way. There's hundreds of thousands of males that

00:27:35.760 listen to this podcast. Not all of them are men. And sometimes people say, well, man, you just,

00:27:42.120 you have a dick and balls, right? No, that doesn't make you a man. That makes you a male,

00:27:48.180 biologically a male, but being a man is something more. So you have to make that decision to be a man.

00:27:54.960 And unfortunately, a lot of males are choosing not to, but I think it's through difficult times that we

00:28:04.060 realize what we're capable of because we're faced with the adversity, whether that's a violent

00:28:10.120 encounter in Jay's line of work, it's a police officer or just what the riots and the looting

00:28:16.560 and everything else that's going on. It could be when your back's up against the wall, because your

00:28:21.280 wife is going to leave you, or your business is going to shut down, or you've noticed you're 50

00:28:25.020 pounds overweight. And now you're dealing with a medical condition. Now you're back. It's pushed up

00:28:29.640 against the wall and you have to decide, are you going to cower and bitch out and moan and cry and

00:28:34.100 hope somebody rescues you? Or are you going to step into the calling of manhood? Are you going to do

00:28:41.380 what is necessary? And I hate to say it, but quite honestly, a lot of us need to be in more difficult

00:28:48.140 circumstances. We need to get punched in the teeth, both literally and figuratively at times.

00:28:53.200 We need to have our backs pushed up against the wall so that we can see what it is we're capable of.

00:28:57.900 Now, I don't want that to be in an uncontrolled environment where I don't have control of the

00:29:02.820 situation. But I think what we can do is thrust ourselves into those situations. We talked about

00:29:07.640 jujitsu earlier. That's a prime example. Some of the sort of physical challenge, pushing outside of

00:29:14.160 our comfort zones, doing public speaking, getting into the gym and training our muscles and our bodies

00:29:19.000 every day, resisting some sort of temptation and exerting willpower and developing and building

00:29:26.760 willpower is an important skillset. But ultimately you have to make the decision. Okay. So right now,

00:29:34.100 what I would ask you guys, if you're listening to this podcast, are you content with being a male

00:29:38.280 and that's it? And if that's it, then go listen to something else. That's going to be

00:29:43.660 significantly less threatening to you.

00:29:47.140 Yeah. This is going to be uncomfortable for you.

00:29:49.720 Yes. And it should be. So if you've decided, Hey, I'm just, I'm okay. You know, living in mommy

00:29:54.940 and daddy's basement. Look, if you're 20 years old or older and you're living in mommy and daddy's

00:30:00.480 basement and you're listening to this grow up, seriously grow up. Oh, but it's hard. No shit.

00:30:09.400 Welcome to adulthood. Grow up, get a job, do what you need to do to be a man. And if you're not

00:30:16.640 willing to do it, then don't call yourself a man. Just say, I'm a male. I'm a male. I'm a male.

00:30:20.300 Cause that's all you are. Or alternatively decide that you're going to be a man, thrust yourself into

00:30:27.520 the battle, do difficult, demanding, and challenging things that make you uncomfortable so that you can

00:30:34.740 earn the title and it is earning it. You have to earn it. So yeah. The other thing I would say with

00:30:41.400 checking off the boxes, Jay, do less, do less. I know that sounds really weird. And what would be

00:30:49.820 dubbed as self-help podcast. Stop doing so much guys. Like we're doing everything and you think

00:30:57.420 you're going to be good at everything. You're not just do less. And, but that doesn't mean skimp

00:31:03.320 out on work. It means go deep. Like it goes like super deep into the, into the doing fewer things.

00:31:11.340 So it doesn't feel some, like some sort of monotonous checking off the box. And it feels

00:31:15.560 like you're completely and fully engaged in whatever it is you're doing. We are spread so thin. And

00:31:22.980 frankly, we just don't have the time and capacity and resources to do everything well. So yeah, there's

00:31:29.420 going to be some things that are just simply checking off the box. That's because you're doing too

00:31:33.300 much, do less and get really good at those few things. And if you want to say yes to something,

00:31:40.280 then realize, okay, what if I'm saying yes to this, what am I willing to say no to? A lot of guys will

00:31:45.860 ask me, well, why do you do jujitsu? Why not do Muay Thai? And why not do boxing? And will you ever do

00:31:49.860 that? I might do that in the future, but not now, because if I do that, then that means I won't be able

00:31:56.700 to go as deep into this practice, which is what I'm focused on right now, because I realized there's a

00:32:01.360 sacrifice and there's a trade-off. So do less, but become hyper-efficient with less. You can do more

00:32:09.500 with less. Yeah. And gratification and fulfillment comes from going deep into things. Otherwise,

00:32:19.780 it's just busy work. It's like a little bit of everything and you're not going to feel satisfied

00:32:24.400 without a doubt. Right. Yeah. All right. Now we're going to jump over to some questions from

00:32:30.420 Facebook to join us there, facebook.com slash group slash order man, Dylan James green. Would

00:32:37.000 you join a revolution to fight tyranny government? If it, if one comes, I told my wife, I would fight

00:32:44.040 to leave a better world for my boys. Yeah, I, I would, if it came to that, if it came,

00:32:50.960 came to a point where there's tyranny and control. Yeah, definitely. And, and we needed to step up,

00:32:56.540 you know, we had men who were willing to do that 250 years ago. And, uh, that's what transformed not

00:33:02.260 only this country, but the face of the, the, the planet. So yeah, I would, and I would make myself

00:33:08.520 and have, and will continue to make myself capable in all ways of, of doing that. Absolutely.

00:33:14.540 Yeah. Do you, I think there's gray sometimes for guys in, in, in, in, in regards to understanding

00:33:24.500 what tyranny looks like. Would you suggest that, that, that were clear for us? Well, I could just

00:33:32.880 see in our, in our current state of things where we could end up in that circumstance and not even

00:33:41.060 realize it because we've been slowly conditioned and passive. And before you know it, you're like,

00:33:46.900 I have no freedoms, right? Yeah. Do you feel like there's importance of drawing a line in the sand

00:33:53.600 for your, for oneself? Yeah, I do believe that because you're exactly right. It's like the frog

00:34:00.080 in boiling water. You know, if you put the frog in cool water and gradually heat it up, it will cook

00:34:05.100 himself to death. If you throw it in a hot pot, it'll just jump right out. And so I think the powers that

00:34:10.580 would be know this. And so they're going to implement these little things strategically and

00:34:15.680 systematically to continue to strip away some of our rights. So one of the things that you hear a

00:34:20.020 lot about now is masks, right? You hear that all the time. And the argument for masks, barring the

00:34:27.700 medical stuff, let's forget about that for a second is what kind of rights does that strip away? You

00:34:32.500 know, I hear a lot of people, Oh, what kind of rights does that slip strip away? Just having to wear a

00:34:36.300 mask. Well, look, if the government can mandate that you wear a mask, can they mandate that you

00:34:43.620 not go anywhere, drive anywhere? If that's the case, can they not mandate that you can no longer

00:34:49.880 own a vehicle or you can no longer own property or that you can no longer work in your chosen field

00:34:57.680 or that that chosen field no longer exists because we're going to legislate it away.

00:35:01.640 These aren't, I don't think these are difficult conclusions to jump to. Some people might say

00:35:08.000 that's alarmist and it's not going to come to that. Really?

00:35:12.080 The mask is very personal. In fact, all the examples you gave seem further away than forcing an

00:35:19.540 individual to place something on their face. And if they don't, there's legal action or possible

00:35:26.900 going to jail. Right. And then you have, and then you have individuals ratting each other out

00:35:34.460 and different, different parks and different organizations that are closed and, Oh, you can't

00:35:40.680 go to this gym, but you can go to Walmart. Well, why it's a, it's a, it's a, what are they, what's the

00:35:47.180 term they use? I'm drawing a blank right now. It's a, it's critical, right? It's a necessity. I can't

00:35:52.200 remember what the term they use right now, but that's what they say. It's like, well, who are

00:35:55.700 you to decide what's, what's necessary for me? What's a crucial business for me? You don't get

00:36:01.620 to decide that. And some people will say, well, you know, this, this thing would have been crushed

00:36:06.080 by now. Well, look at Sweden. That's a great example. It didn't lock anything down. Continue

00:36:13.340 schools, no lockdowns, no mask mandate. They had deaths. I'm not saying that they had their deaths

00:36:19.100 they needed to deal with, but, uh, they're, they're on the other end of this thing and

00:36:24.240 they're, they still have deaths. They still have cases, but it's nowhere near what some

00:36:28.360 of these countries who locked down did. So I think this is a very perfect opportunity

00:36:33.660 for those who would like to, uh, insert themselves more into the public realm, uh, to, I should

00:36:41.560 say private realm, uh, to wrestle some of the control under the guise of safety. It's a,

00:36:50.400 it's a very good opportunity. What is, what is the term? Never let a crisis go to waste.

00:36:54.920 It's a very good opportunity to, uh, push as far as they can and see how far we'd be willing

00:37:01.700 to go. But I feel a little bit at this point, like a little circus monkey performing for other

00:37:06.600 people. It's an interesting thing. Interesting is not the right word. I, yeah, everything. I think

00:37:15.000 we should question everything. Yeah. If a law gets passed for seatbelts and the intention is to save

00:37:20.820 lives, you have to always remember that a little bit of freedom is being taken away. Well, I don't

00:37:26.700 think on the books because if you're a, if you're a grown, if you're an adult and you get into a

00:37:34.200 vehicle, same thing with helmet laws. If you're, if you ride a motorcycle and you're an idiot and you

00:37:40.380 don't want to wear a helmet, okay, you're an idiot. A natural selection will take its course. That's

00:37:46.840 fine. Or alternatively, you can voluntarily choose. I don't need the government to tell me what I should

00:37:55.340 and shouldn't be doing. If you want to wear a helmet, wear a helmet. I would think that that's a

00:38:01.200 pretty smart idea. If I was going to ride motorcycles, I would, I would personally wear a

00:38:05.580 helmet, but if you don't want to wear a helmet, okay, it's your, it's your brain. It's your skull

00:38:12.780 by all means, you know? So look, if it's not affecting me and people say, well, mass, you know,

00:38:19.560 that affects other people. Look, if you're unhealthy or you have concerns or, you know, you're scared or

00:38:26.600 whatever, that's fine. It's not my responsibility to protect you. It's your responsibility to protect

00:38:33.380 you. Don't go out in public. I had, I went to the convenience store the other day and I got in line

00:38:39.680 and this, this woman, the cashier did not have a mask on. And the woman, it was an elderly woman.

00:38:45.920 She's like, she had a mask on and she yelled at the lady for not having a mask on. And I'm like,

00:38:52.960 what, what is this woman buying? She was buying alcohol and lottery tickets.

00:39:00.040 And so number one, you got some health issues, obviously, probably right. And number two,

00:39:05.240 those aren't necessities. Those are luxuries. Cause what people say is, well, I have a right

00:39:10.580 to come out here. You do have the right to come out. Your own risk, right? That's your,

00:39:17.040 this is your risk. Again, that goes back to what you're saying. Personal accountability and

00:39:20.360 responsibility is people are so dumb. You know, well, what Ryan, why can't you just help protect

00:39:26.080 people? Because they can take care of themselves and they have to make those decisions for themselves.

00:39:33.280 I'm not their savior. It's correct, dude. It's crazy. And, and what's interesting is if,

00:39:42.220 when you have a society or a culture that has a, a default victim mentality,

00:39:47.360 and then you create this perception of collective as a whole, Ryan, collective as a whole, we will

00:39:55.320 stop and save each other and our health. What does everyone do? They give away their sovereignty

00:40:02.180 and they hand over the possibility of death by, you know, a pandemic of whatever to everyone else.

00:40:10.140 They immediately become a victim and they go, okay, well, if I die now, it's because of you.

00:40:15.780 If my own, it's because of someone else's fault. It's not because of theirs. And, and what's ironic,

00:40:21.860 you look at guys like us, if you were at risk, if you're honestly concerned about dying, would you,

00:40:29.500 would you drastically adjust how you've exposed yourself to other individuals? I would. There's

00:40:36.580 no way I'd be going to Chili's. You would think screw that. Cause that's, I would not be going to

00:40:41.300 Walmart. That's your responsibility. Like I was, if, if I was honestly taking accountability for my

00:40:47.340 health and the wellbeing of my children, we would drastically be adjusting than just wearing a

00:40:52.600 stupid crappy mask and still doing everything. Like everything's normal and fine and damn. I would

00:40:57.840 drastically adjust. And you, because you, you understand personal responsibility. So I'm going

00:41:03.680 to say something that's very unpopular here. Okay. I think we've already. Yeah. Well you have,

00:41:10.600 but this is going to be very, very unpopular. Maybe when I see handicap places, the store or

00:41:17.780 amenities for disabilities, I think that should, that stuff should not be mandated. That should not

00:41:24.740 be mandated. Like who are you to force me to do something to serve somebody, anybody. Okay. If I,

00:41:34.440 as a business owner, for example, choose to make those amenities available, then that's my choice as

00:41:42.140 the business owner. And I would think that if I made those amenities available, I would do it on a

00:41:46.300 case by case basis. For example, if I owned a company that sold wheelchairs, I would probably think

00:41:53.440 that I should make a handicap spot available for individuals who might have a great, greater

00:41:59.080 likelihood of needing that space or a ramp because they need the space. But if I own a scuba diving

00:42:06.300 company, like what are like, those people aren't going to go scuba diving, right? Okay. So

00:42:14.900 people can make those people, people can make their own decisions. So now you're going to get me in more

00:42:22.300 trouble. They can make their own decisions. And look, if I'm disabled, okay, let's say I'm disabled

00:42:28.560 and a company doesn't offer me amenities. Why the hell would I want to go patronize that store?

00:42:35.660 I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to support them if they're not willing to voluntary, voluntarily offer

00:42:41.020 me some amenities. I just, I don't understand the whole, like, let's just acquiesce to everybody and

00:42:49.120 make everybody feel important and make sure everybody's included. I think people are smart.

00:42:53.660 I think people are generous. I think people are gracious. I think there are certainly an element

00:42:58.760 of the invisible hand. Adam Smith talks about it in the wealth of nations that people will make

00:43:04.300 decisions based on what's good and what's in their heart, but also what's good for their pocketbook.

00:43:09.000 Let people make decisions that are going to serve them and be in their own best interest. And then

00:43:15.320 let other people make the decisions of whether or not they want to patronize these stores.

00:43:20.400 But I also think the same thing about masks. And here's a counterpoint to the masks.

00:43:25.240 Cause some people say, well, that store can't force me to wear a mask. Bullshit. I think that store,

00:43:31.060 that store says you have to wear a mask. Yeah. I think if they say you have to wear a mask,

00:43:35.160 then you're a dick and an asshole. If you don't wear a mask in that store. And if you don't like

00:43:40.100 it, don't shop at that store. Exactly. If you go to a store and they say, I'm sorry,

00:43:45.420 I'm sorry. We only allow you to come in. If you're completely nude, then you either strip down or you

00:43:51.320 don't shop at that store because that's their decision. And so what I have a problem with is

00:43:56.220 the same thing with that cake where the, the gay couple want to sue this, this cake owner because

00:44:01.780 they wanted to, I don't care about gay rights or anything else. All I care about in this case

00:44:05.820 is that that guy was attempted to be forced to make something he wasn't interested in making.

00:44:11.520 And by the way, for whatever reason, it doesn't matter if it's discriminatory or it doesn't matter

00:44:17.540 if it's homophobia. I think for whatever reason that guy could decide. And guess what?

00:44:25.420 I get to decide whether or not I patronize him or not. Cause you know what? I can just go down the

00:44:29.520 street and get the gay cake or whatever from the other guy who doesn't care. And I'm more than

00:44:34.300 willing to support him in that case than the guy who isn't interested in serving me. Right? So

00:44:38.040 I just, this, the, the, the lack of personal accountability, personal responsibility

00:44:45.300 is just, it's disgusting. It's despicable. And I don't need some government telling me

00:44:52.260 what I can and can't do. And then protecting you who aren't willing to protect yourself.

00:44:57.420 Yeah. I was thinking about, and at the root of that is freedom. And it's interesting because I

00:45:05.280 think so many people will give it lip service. Oh yeah, we want freedom, but they don't want the

00:45:13.540 responsibility of it. And they would rather be a victim and in, in turn, give up freedom. Like

00:45:21.000 at turn, everyone's like, yeah, freedom, freedom. Great. Oh wait, accountability. Like I,

00:45:26.740 I have to figure this out for myself. I, I, I can't rely on someone else or blame someone else

00:45:31.360 for my, uh, my wellbeing or my protection or something else. Oh, that. Oh, okay. You know

00:45:37.020 what? I choose safety now. And it's really interesting how we all, we're all so eager to

00:45:42.220 say freedom, but in reality, most people, they, they don't want freedom. They want safety.

00:45:47.060 Right. And victimhood.

00:45:49.960 And I get it. It's tempting, you know, and it's just a path that's not going to lead to the

00:45:54.260 right place. No, Martin Dennis, what's the best way for a man to culture himself and

00:46:02.720 what are the benefits of being cultured? That's an interesting question to culture

00:46:09.340 himself. Well, you know, I think about culture, I think about being exposed to different experiences,

00:46:16.360 right? That that's what culture would be like. Your culture is a collection of your combined

00:46:21.160 experiences. And then we have enough of us that have those same combined experiences.

00:46:25.280 And that's where we create our rituals and our rites of passage and our beliefs and our

00:46:29.780 viewpoints about different things. Right? So what's the best way to become cultured? Expose

00:46:37.500 yourself to different cultures, have an open mind, have an open heart, expose yourself to

00:46:43.760 different cultures. Think people that believe differently than you, people that think differently

00:46:47.880 than you. I also think cultured has an element when I hear that of gentlemanness. Like I hear

00:46:56.500 that. I hear like when I hear cultured, I think maturity, right? He's cultured. He's a gentleman.

00:47:01.980 He's mature. He's been exposed to a lot of information. And then you still make your own

00:47:07.000 decisions, but you do it with the most information at hand. So I say, expose yourself to different

00:47:12.660 environments, whether that's different cultures, different hobbies, different activities,

00:47:16.900 things you'd normally say no to, you should maybe say yes to. And, and that's actually the beauty

00:47:23.080 of the podcast is for me anyways, is that I've been exposed to people that I agree with people

00:47:29.960 that I disagree with people that have been through different experiences and circumstances and yet

00:47:35.000 have overcome and surmounted just incredible odds against them. Just be exposed. That's why I'd say

00:47:43.880 expose yourself to as much information as you possibly can. And then make your own decisions

00:47:48.340 based on all the information you have. And I think that's the key, right? And to be able to

00:47:53.240 make your own decisions means that you understand that it's culture, that it's not like what's right

00:48:00.440 and wrong in one culture is different in another culture and realize that distinction, right? I used

00:48:07.040 to teach young people, um, like gospel doctrine. And this is one of the distinctions that my wife and

00:48:14.900 I would meet because we, we like pair teached or whatever. And that there's a difference between

00:48:20.240 culture, society, culture, church, culture, and gospel. And we sometimes blur them and we go,

00:48:27.980 Oh, well, that's, that's unacceptable. And in one of the examples that I use, maybe the LDS people

00:48:32.880 will be able to relate to this, but I asked the boys, I'm like, Hey, so next Sunday you come

00:48:37.160 and you pass the sacrament and you do it in a skirt. Is that okay? No, no, that's not okay.

00:48:45.940 You got to have a white skirt and a tie and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, no, that's not gospel.

00:48:50.900 That's culture. What do you mean? Of course. Go to Tonga. Look at Samoa. Exactly. Go to New Zealand.

00:48:57.020 Yeah. They're wearing skirts, right? There's a difference between, but, but in their world,

00:49:01.500 they're thinking, Oh, that's gospel. Right. And I think we have a tendency to do it with the

00:49:04.880 culture. What's right. What's wrong. Understand that some things are just culture and it's not

00:49:10.220 right or wrong, or it might be, but to your point, I'm guess I'm given a longer explanation of the

00:49:16.660 point that you're saying is decide for yourself and understand. Well, and this is the thing I

00:49:20.560 actually have a problem with when it comes to cultural appropriation, you know, where people

00:49:26.220 aren't, I don't think generally in some cases, maybe, but I don't think generally when somebody

00:49:30.780 decides to wear their hair a certain way, or to wear a certain garment that has some cultural

00:49:36.200 meaning that they're poking or they're mocking other cultures. In fact, if anything, I think

00:49:40.440 they're honoring those other cultures. You know, like if I, if, and I can't imagine necessarily

00:49:45.780 doing this, I don't know that it would be entirely appropriate for like a Haole boy, like myself to

00:49:51.400 wear a skirt, you know, to the sacrament in Hawaii or Tonga or Samoa. But at the same time,

00:49:58.060 it might be a nod to appreciation and respect for their culture. I don't know in that case,

00:50:05.000 I'm just using that as an example. But it's when you speak another language in a different country,

00:50:09.600 you're slaughtering the language. Most natives appreciate that. They appreciate you're trying.

00:50:15.960 Right. Exactly. That's a, that's a better, that's a better example than I gave for sure

00:50:21.300 is like, you're, you're, you're honoring that you're, you're, you're recognizing it,

00:50:26.740 you're acknowledging it. And so that's why I have a hard time in society. When we, when we get rid of

00:50:31.560 these, these sports teams names that, you know, fewer than 1% of the people feel offended by,

00:50:38.180 or they just generate and manufacture this offense that they don't actually feel,

00:50:41.780 or it's not even directed even remotely towards them. It's like, you know, you take Indian,

00:50:47.020 Cleveland Indians or, or, or, you know, the Cedar city, right? Washington Redskins. Like

00:50:53.560 that's not poking fun at, especially with teams. Like you want a menacing, strong,

00:51:00.680 intimidating, like that's not poking fun at that. That's actually honoring the warrior culture that

00:51:06.140 they've created. Like, what is the problem here? You know, I don't, I don't know. I swear I wasn't

00:51:12.840 meant to live in this time at times, you know, at times I'm like, this is the wrong time. Like you

00:51:17.440 put me in the wrong, the wrong century. Everybody's offended about everything.

00:51:23.280 Totally. All right. Logan, Ryan, should I feel guilty about my disgust at all the memes people

00:51:29.800 post regarding some of the current hot topic issues? I just feel that too many people think they

00:51:35.300 are helping solve an issue by posting a meme or a hashtag. And it depends if it's funny in my

00:51:41.540 opinion, but lighten up, man. It's a meme. Have fun with it. Yeah. That's it. I, you know,

00:51:47.000 like when people make fun of me, I'm like, yeah, that's actually pretty good. Like that is kind of

00:51:52.680 like me, you know, like the dog, the Ryan Mickler dog is the all time best meme ever. I never took

00:51:59.960 offense to that at all. Never. Because it, again, this goes back to what we were saying earlier.

00:52:05.000 It's fun. It's lighthearted. It's a poke. Yes. Is it mean spirited? No, I don't think it's mean

00:52:13.300 spirited. I think it's just exaggerating something that kind of seems true. And it's funny. Like

00:52:19.760 that's it. It's just funny. Lighten up. Most of the time I scroll through social media and I'm just

00:52:26.660 shaking my head because I just, I'm so surprised how witty people are. Like I have the things I'm

00:52:35.420 like, I would have never thought of that. That is so funny. Like, did you see the COVID one? I have

00:52:41.880 a COVID joke, but 99.06% of you won't get it. Yeah, exactly. Like that's hilarious.

00:52:49.700 And just lighten up. I'm easily entertained. But we're, again, we're in this society right now where

00:52:57.460 it's like, we, we look comedians and I'm, I'm not a comedian by any stretch of the imagination,

00:53:03.680 but like we need comedians because we give them permission to say things that we don't give

00:53:12.560 permission to for the 99.9% of the population. And it's kind of like, so my wife, she does canning.

00:53:18.780 Okay. So if you're familiar with the canning and the processing steps or procedures at all,

00:53:24.640 you'll understand this. You put, you fill up the bottles with the water or whatever she puts in

00:53:28.480 there. And then you put the beans or whatever it is. Right. And then you put it in the steamer

00:53:32.560 and then the steamer is pressure cooks it. And what it does is it vacuums it and it seals the lid

00:53:38.580 to the can so that you can preserve it. It takes all the air out. And on the top, there's this

00:53:43.700 little release valve and the little release valve just opens up occasionally just based on the

00:53:49.040 temperature. And it lets some of the steam out because if it wasn't there, it would be a bomb.

00:53:52.920 That's essentially what a bomb would be. Okay. So the release valve, you need to make sure it's

00:53:57.660 working and it's letting some of the steam off. That's what comedy is. Comedy is the release valve

00:54:03.520 because if everybody walked around as serious as I am all the time, if everybody was like

00:54:08.500 that, can you imagine the pressure cooker we'd be sitting in? And so we have these,

00:54:12.900 these comedians who we give permission and they're the release valve. And we say, okay,

00:54:17.320 you make fun of cancer. Okay. Like nobody else can make fun of cancer, but we'll let you make fun of

00:54:22.940 it just to lighten the mood. Okay. You make fun of, and, and mock 170,000 people dying from COVID.

00:54:30.340 You do that. 99.9% of people, we're not going to get permission. We're just going to give you a

00:54:35.840 little leeway here to be the release valve. Cause otherwise we'll all blow up and explode.

00:54:41.520 That's what's happening right now is everybody's so tight and uptight and we're canceling comedians.

00:54:48.660 And we're saying, you can't be funny and you can't talk about this. And so there's no release

00:54:54.180 valve and everybody's heads are starting to explode because we can't make fun of each other.

00:54:59.800 So Logan, I think it was, was saying, should I feel guilty? I think that, that phrase,

00:55:11.180 should I feel guilty is actually indicative of the problem. You're taking it too seriously.

00:55:16.560 Oh, should I feel guilty about this? No, you should just read the joke and laugh when appropriate.

00:55:23.200 Yeah. The, the end. And then the other 99.9% of your life, you can be uptight and be upset and be

00:55:30.840 bitter or whatever. And I'm not saying you are, I'm just saying you can be more serious, but it's

00:55:36.000 okay. It's okay. Yeah. Lighten up, have some fun. And, and give a little grace to, you know,

00:55:41.960 like I I'm sure I've said things where after I'm not sure. I know I've said things where afterwards I'm

00:55:47.920 like, yeah, maybe took that a little too far, right? Like there's some humanity in us. And,

00:55:54.240 and sometimes we joke a little too much and then we go, eh, mistake my bad. And we move on. We don't

00:56:00.460 need to cancel out people so often, you know? No, I don't think we need to cancel. I see it both on

00:56:08.240 both sides of the political spectrum. I mean, I hear the thing, the stupid things that Biden says,

00:56:12.800 I hear the stupid things Trump says, and I'm like, you moron. And I'm like, oh, that's right.

00:56:19.320 He is a moron. Just like me. If all of my words were scrutinized to the degree that these two

00:56:26.900 individuals words were scrutinized. Yeah. I don't know how well I'd fare or stack up against these

00:56:32.600 two individuals either. Now, some of it, you know, you got to think, okay, maybe that's not

00:56:37.180 excusable. You have to make that decision for yourself. But at the same time, what is it?

00:56:42.640 Um, there's a quote, never, never attribute to malice. What could be attributed to stupidity.

00:56:51.720 And that's like, we're not as malicious. I don't think as people think, I think we're just

00:56:57.000 dumber than we think or dumber than we're willing to acknowledge and recognize in ourselves.

00:57:02.560 Yeah, totally. If you don't mind me sharing one more thing, cause I thought, I thought this was

00:57:07.040 pretty profound. So I'm reading, um, I'm pulling it up, man. I'm pulling it up. Hold on. This is

00:57:13.660 a good point. So Dan Crenshaw's book, right? Fortitude. And he talks about, he went on SNL

00:57:21.640 and got like, and someone dropped a bad joke. Right. And they were joking around. Obviously it's SNL.

00:57:27.780 They said something about him being like, uh, um, like a, uh, what is it? Like a hit man.

00:57:34.500 That's a porn star, you know? Right. And then the one guy says something about his eye patch and says,

00:57:40.360 Oh yeah, he got that in battle. Ha ha ha. And it was like, Whoa, you know, that was too far.

00:57:45.100 And he talked about, he had this opportunity to like, you know, seek retribution. You know,

00:57:51.740 you need to apologize for that. And that was inappropriate. And he chose not to, he chose to

00:57:56.100 have a little bit of fortitude and thought, you know what, that's up to me to decide to be

00:58:01.080 offended or not. It happened. SNL came to their own conclusion that that was too far. And what they

00:58:09.180 ended up having him do is inviting him back onto the show during veterans day and do a special

00:58:15.100 thing for veterans. And they corrected the problem and did something even better. And he didn't have

00:58:23.340 to counsel him, but imagine if you went with the approach of the cancellation culture and created

00:58:29.060 this huge riff, that other opportunity on SNL wouldn't have happened. And I think far too often,

00:58:34.320 right. We jumped to that conclusion of just like, you know, I demand or, you know what, just let it be.

00:58:39.560 And that person, they'll probably have some humanity. And later on, they might go in that moment of

00:58:44.940 my time. I, I took that a little too far and I shouldn't have, right. Versus you destroying

00:58:49.520 your relationship. It's a good example. And this is what's indicative of the miserable,

00:58:55.500 weak society that we live is the worst day of your life is when some random dumb ass on Saturday

00:59:03.140 night live said something, used words, and it hurt your feel bads. Like that's your issue.

00:59:10.540 Yeah. Yeah. Come on. You know, like, okay. So somebody said something mean about you at work

00:59:17.600 and that's, that's what's got you all bothered. Okay. Just go back to work and prove them wrong.

00:59:26.660 Like there's not the things that we get upset about is absolutely ridiculous. That's why I don't

00:59:34.300 like the terms like he verbally attacked me. He, what the hell does that even mean? He verbally

00:59:40.180 assaulted me. Wait, wait, wait. You realize what assault means, right? Like, have you ever been in a

00:59:48.560 situation where people were actively trying to kill you? Because if you were, you would have a different

00:59:55.080 meaning for the word assault. Cause somebody calling you a jerk or making even a racist comment,

01:00:04.300 I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say is appropriate, but I also wouldn't say a verbal assault on you.

01:00:11.960 Like I'm the only example I would think that that maybe you should say something if they're actively

01:00:17.540 calling for violence against you outside of that lighten up, relax. You're not assaulted.

01:00:24.240 Somebody just said something mean about you. And to your point, right? That's, that's how soft

01:00:29.740 we've gotten. It's crazy. It is, man. All right. One more question. Let's take one more.

01:00:35.760 Yeah. All right. Eric Swanson, we have a discussion with people with different beliefs,

01:00:41.600 politics and religion when it seems that history and facts are irrelevant to them. I mean,

01:00:47.340 we've kind of answered this question, but it's not, it's not what Eric's looking for, but let me,

01:00:52.460 let me tie in a bow and say, if they're interested in having a discussion, that's got to be the first

01:00:57.360 barrier, right? Cause if they're not interested in learning or growing or expanding, or you're not

01:01:01.960 like if either one of the parties or both are not interested in changing perspectives or being

01:01:06.180 open-minded, the discussion is not worth having on either side, you or them. Okay. So that's first

01:01:11.540 and foremost, uh, secondary to that. How do you have a discussion about differences of opinion?

01:01:17.420 You find the common ground. So if we've identified that both parties are actually indeed interested

01:01:23.960 and open to discussion, we want to improve. We want to move forward. I mean, we see this on teams

01:01:28.860 within the corporate world all the time. You have two top line leaders who, uh, are very excited about

01:01:35.660 their proposal. The team's going in the same direction. We want to increase our bottom line

01:01:40.580 and we want to sell this product and we want to change lives. And you have two top line leaders

01:01:44.960 who see something very differently. I think this is the solution. And this other guy thinks this is

01:01:49.680 the path. Okay. Well come to some common agreement. Okay. What are, what, what is the goal? What is the

01:01:57.140 objective? What do we agree upon? Start with that. And then I think you're going to be able to work

01:02:02.900 through the differences a little bit better as it's that simple, right? So if you're talking about

01:02:08.380 politics and you want, uh, more people to have access to housing, one avenue could be, uh, government

01:02:16.620 mandated, uh, rent control. That's one option. Another option could be loosen restrictions from,

01:02:26.380 for contractors so they can build more homes. And therefore, because of supply and demand,

01:02:30.940 they become more affordable. That's another option. Another option could be to increase

01:02:37.960 through government mandate, uh, minimum wage because now they'll have the money to be able

01:02:44.600 to pay for the housing. Another option could be to offer free college for everybody so they can get

01:02:52.700 higher paying jobs. Look, I'm not saying one is right or wrong right here. I'm just saying,

01:02:56.780 here's some options to address this. Okay. Well, we all want people to realize the American dream.

01:03:04.140 I think most people would say, I would love for Americans to be able to live out the American dream.

01:03:08.460 Part of which is to have some property ownership to own their own home. We all want that. Okay. Now

01:03:15.100 let's look at it and see what is the biggest thing. For example, let's go to the minimum wage issue.

01:03:21.980 Let's look at that. Let's put it on the table and let's look at this as a potentially

01:03:26.380 viable strategy. What will this do? Okay. Well, it's going to increase wages. That sounds good

01:03:32.220 because now people will be able to afford it. But if everybody's rates go up at the same time,

01:03:37.820 that includes contracting rates. So the price of housing goes up relative to the increase in

01:03:45.260 minimum wage. So will that make housing more affordable? No, if anything, in best case scenario,

01:03:52.220 it will, the cost of housing will go up relative to the cost of wages. Okay. Well, that's actually

01:04:00.060 going to defeat the purpose. So that's not going to work. Let's table that. Now let's go to the free

01:04:05.020 education. Let's talk about that. And if, as long as you have the same objective and people are rational

01:04:11.820 and they're willing to look at these things, I think you can have good discussions. If a party

01:04:17.580 becomes irrational or they're not even on the same wavelength as you, okay, well, what conversation

01:04:23.660 could you possibly have? That's going to, and that's where we get tripped up with politics.

01:04:28.540 And I heard this great quote one time, and it said, the key to winning some sort of an election

01:04:34.300 is to get 50% of the people to hate you. And it was said tongue in cheek, but it's actually true.

01:04:40.380 Like you're actually not trying to convince people to see your side of it. You're trying to

01:04:47.420 polarize people by design so that you're only speaking to 50% of the population. That's it.

01:04:54.220 That's all you want. That's why when we see these, well, there was one in the news, I think it,

01:04:59.340 I believe in Wisconsin, um, there was a black man who was shot by, by two officers. And I can't

01:05:05.340 remember if just one or both officers fired. I watched the video. Those police officers shot

01:05:11.420 him in the back. He was getting in his car and they shot him right in the back. I don't think

01:05:15.020 that would be disputed. So we have these politicians now who will jump right into that. This is police

01:05:21.980 brutality. This is, is race. These are race issues. Actually, we don't know what we know is that man was

01:05:30.860 shot in the back. It's right there on the video, but we don't know why we don't know the extent

01:05:35.260 extenuating circumstances. We don't know the motives yet. We'll figure a lot of that stuff out,

01:05:40.540 but you have these politicians who jump, jump at this. In fact, I think they revel in it,

01:05:47.500 which is despicable and disgusting, but they revel in it. They love it because now they can

01:05:54.620 polarize and then get the, like I said earlier, the 50% of people to hate them, which means the

01:05:59.660 other 50 will love them. And that's what they know. And that's what they're doing. So

01:06:04.940 politics isn't about uniting people at all. It never has been. It's about dividing and conquering.

01:06:11.580 And that's what politicians know. And that's exactly what politicians do. So if we believe that our

01:06:18.940 route to success or unity in the United States is found through politicians, it's at direct odds with

01:06:24.700 what they are attempting to do on both sides of the aisle, by the way, Republican, Democrat,

01:06:28.860 libertarian, conservative, all of it, polarized, divide, conquer, divide, conquer. It is in their

01:06:35.340 playbook. That's what they know. That's what they do very, very well. Yeah. And then we, we go along and,

01:06:41.500 and label ourselves with those political groups, which is like the opposite of having critical thought

01:06:49.260 process and finding common ground and understanding on anything. Right. I mean, when's the last time

01:06:55.820 you had a debate, like a political debate with a loop or a real one? No, with your neighbor or a

01:07:02.780 coworker. Cause that shit doesn't matter. What matters is that your neighbor needs help mowing their

01:07:09.580 lawn because they're hung up because of a medical thing they're dealing with. What matters is that your

01:07:14.780 coworker is struggling to make his deadline on the project because he doesn't have enough resources.

01:07:19.660 And so you want to come in and you want to help. Like, those are the real things that matter.

01:07:24.620 Not, Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, so you broke your leg and you can't mow your lawn.

01:07:30.540 Are you a Democrat or Republican? Because based on that answer, I either will or will not mow your lawn.

01:07:36.620 Nobody in their right mind would ever say that. If you know your neighbor, you'd say, you got it.

01:07:40.780 I'll be there tonight at six o'clock right after work to go do that. And you wouldn't think twice

01:07:45.180 about Democrat, Republican, nothing. It wouldn't even cross your mind. It's man, it's rough. It's

01:07:53.820 rough right now. Crazy world. All right. To join or to submit your questions in the future for, uh,

01:08:04.060 future AMAs, uh, your questions and join us on Facebook at facebook.com slash group slash order.

01:08:09.660 Man, you just shave your head.

01:08:12.060 Uh, it's a little buzz. Oh yeah. It's a little buzz.

01:08:16.380 Sorry. I got distracted. It's what I do. My wife cuts my hair. You know,

01:08:19.580 she does an eight on the top, two on the sides. Good to go.

01:08:22.860 It's a little high, high blend. It's not a pretty boy like you, where you, you know,

01:08:26.780 you go to the salon and you have your tips frosted and whatever it is you do.

01:08:31.580 I'm frosted. Yeah. Well, once I got rid of the mullet, I stopped getting perms at least.

01:08:42.060 You know what I'm talking about.

01:08:43.660 Totally. Especially in Utah. Yeah, man. Southern Utah. That was,

01:08:48.140 I never had a mullet and I never had a perm, but I saw plenty of perm mullet at a rodeo on my day.

01:08:56.860 Oh, so funny. Um, to learn more about the iron council and to join us there, go to, uh,

01:09:02.620 order of man.com slash iron council. Our order of man event is still in the works. That's October 9th

01:09:10.380 through the 11th. To learn more, go to order of man.com slash main event. And that's the state

01:09:16.380 main main event. Um, I'm assuming we have a few spots, maybe an official, uh, update.

01:09:23.420 Yeah. We're, I have no official update. If you really want to come. Yeah. It's like 50,

01:09:29.420 50 right now. Um, because we've had a lot of individuals who are not frankly, not all that

01:09:35.020 interested in traveling. Uh, so that's part of the deal. And then the insurance is actually

01:09:40.300 proving to be a challenge as well. So I, I maybe, maybe, I don't know. We'll see. Just,

01:09:47.580 we'll keep you in the loop as best we can. It's hard. We'll keep you updated. Yeah. Okay. Um,

01:09:52.540 so support the order and, and kind of what we're doing, share the message. Yeah. You could do so by

01:10:00.060 utilizing the resources of this podcast, YouTube channel, or following Mr.

01:10:04.300 Mickler on Instagram or Twitter at Ryan Mickler. And of course,

01:10:08.620 we're supporting by wearing some order of man swag, go to store.com. Did you see Brecken's new bike,

01:10:13.900 by the way? I did. As I was a proud, not that he got a bike because of me, but I was proud of him.

01:10:19.260 I was like, Oh yeah. Yeah. Cause you make me send you free merchandise. So it wasn't anything that.

01:10:24.780 Yeah. Yeah. I didn't participate at all. I didn't contribute bike. I'm telling you,

01:10:31.900 like he's, he's saved. So if you guys don't know what we're talking about is my son is my oldest son

01:10:37.900 is our store manager. So he fulfills all the orders. He's customer service. He does email

01:10:44.060 correspondence with you guys. Um, he checks inventories. Him and I work on ordering new

01:10:50.060 merchandise together and he is saved for two years at this point. And he bought, uh, just this weekend,

01:10:57.260 bought a brand new bike. It's a, uh, a dual sport. It's the Yamaha TW 200. Uh, and we got there. He's

01:11:05.260 only ridden a little Honda 50, not a manual clutch, by the way, just a little automatic legit bike.

01:11:11.580 Yeah. This is a man's bike. You know, it's a beginner bike for sure, but it's, it's a man sized bike.

01:11:17.420 And so we get there and the guy's like, Hey, it's in the service shop. They're putting the lights and

01:11:20.780 stuff on it. Now. Do you want to check it out? I'm like, yeah, let's go check it out. And I see it.

01:11:23.640 I'm like, Oh bro, I don't know if this is going to work. And I'm like, and I think that let alone

01:11:29.320 when your mom sees it. So I'm like, well get on it. And he gets on it and he's like, he's on his

01:11:34.520 tippy toes. He's actually pretty good height for, he's a big kid anyway. Cause it's a dirt bike.

01:11:38.580 Yeah. It's a dirt, it's a dual sport. So it's a dirt bike, but it's got all the, everything it

01:11:42.500 needs to be on the road as well. So you can, it'll do both. Uh, and man, we got at home and he's just

01:11:49.840 been scooting around. And it was funny cause a couple of the salespeople that are like, Hey,

01:11:53.540 are you going to, you know, are you going to finance it? How are you going to pay for it?

01:11:56.000 I'm like, he's paying cash for it. And they're like, what? I'm like, it's his money. Like he's

01:11:59.840 saved for two years, all his money. He did the title, the registration, the paid the taxes. He

01:12:04.400 bought the helmet, bought the chest protection. He bought it all. And I said, this is you, bud.

01:12:08.100 Like I'm not buying anything. Like this is what you've been saving for. And man, he's, he's loved it.

01:12:12.880 So long story short, I just want to say thank you to you guys. And also my son says, thank you.

01:12:18.180 Cause he genuinely does. He, he said, if I was going to make a post about it to make sure I said,

01:12:22.000 thank you, because he knows that you guys who have bought hats or a shirt or a battle plan or

01:12:27.020 whatever, uh, have supported him in making that little dream of his come true, which is really

01:12:32.980 cool. And he recognizes that. So just wanted to send a thank you from both me and him as well.

01:12:38.600 That's awesome. I love it. When I have a, I have a daughter that that's that, I mean, she was like,

01:12:43.220 can I skip my birthday and Christmas and I'll save up my own money for a go-kart? Like she's that type of,

01:12:49.860 has that type of mentality. I, I love it when kids do that.

01:12:53.440 Did she, so she has a go-kart or she's working on it?

01:12:57.100 She saved up all of her money and bought a go-kart.

01:13:00.080 Yeah. Bought her own go-kart. Yeah.

01:13:01.460 Yeah. I love it, man. I love it.

01:13:04.120 All right, guys, we'll wrap things up. I'll be back on Friday for the Friday field notes. And then

01:13:08.260 of course, next week, uh, keep the questions coming, keep the comments coming, keep engaged,

01:13:13.020 uh, go to the store, leave a rating and review, do it all. We need, we need your help in getting

01:13:17.860 this word out. Obviously we need it. It's, it's a really strange time to say the least. And,

01:13:23.160 uh, your support goes a very long way. So we'll let you go until then go out there,

01:13:26.800 take action, become the man you are meant to be.

01:13:29.200 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your

01:13:33.400 life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - August 26, 2020

Building a Code of Conduct, Operating in a Soft Culture, Dealing with Differences in Opinion ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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