Order of Man - Building Fortitude in Your Son, Reclaiming Masculinity, and the Power of Telling the Truth Relentlessly

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly charge

00:00:04.940 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.340 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.000 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.480 you can call yourself a man. All right, you guys. I'm joined by a much better looking

00:00:28.860 version of Kip Sorensen today. You're filling in for Kip, Sean. How's that feel? This is

00:00:34.420 your third time? Second or third time? Second time. Second time. All right. So you did one

00:00:38.900 with Kip. Now you're with me. You guys knocked it out of the park the last time you did the

00:00:42.980 Ask Me Anything, and I got a lot of good feedback from guys as well about having you on, so I

00:00:47.020 figured we'll gradually replace Kip, and we'll see if he listens because we'll just keep bashing

00:00:53.100 on him this whole time, and if he doesn't say anything, we know he's not listening to

00:00:55.840 us. That's good. We can get away with it when he's not directly with us and able to put us

00:01:01.160 in a choke. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, he is a dangerous man, so we'll do that when we're

00:01:06.520 out of reach, arms reach with him for sure. So everything good for you on your end, man?

00:01:12.000 It is. Just got back from Hawaii, and I miss being with you guys in Minnesota, but Hawaii was

00:01:18.580 great. Well, you would have shot all the deer if you were out there, so I'm not sure that

00:01:22.180 we were too upset that you weren't out there, but yeah, we did miss you, man. We were able

00:01:27.260 to get a couple of big bucks on the ground. We shot probably between the eight of us, I

00:01:33.000 want to say three or four does. I was fortunate enough to tag out, which felt good because

00:01:37.740 I've been going out there for four years, and this is the first time I'd been able to

00:01:41.840 do that, so all is well, man. All is well.

00:01:45.120 How do you feel about your bow going both ways now?

00:01:47.560 Yeah. It's a, I'm going to get in trouble. You're going to, you're going to get me in

00:01:53.340 trouble here. I actually feel good. I had to take off the, the lady killer name of my

00:02:00.160 bow. So now I'm going to have to come up with a new name for my bow because it's no longer

00:02:03.880 just the lady killer.

00:02:05.440 That's right.

00:02:06.480 Yeah. Yeah.

00:02:07.520 Yeah. That was a cool looking buck too.

00:02:09.380 Dude, he was rad. Yeah. He was big. He weighed 290 pounds on the hoof. So I don't know what,

00:02:14.840 maybe two 35 once he was dressed, but just a huge, huge deer. Brennan Lilly shot a big

00:02:21.840 mature buck, not quite as heavy as mine, but the rack was bigger. Man, what a, what an

00:02:26.980 incredible week with good friends. And we had a great time out there.

00:02:30.560 Awesome. Well, we did a little hunting in Hawaii and Austin shot access to here.

00:02:37.000 Oh yeah. Access to here. That's right. You sent me the pictures. Austin shot what? Two or

00:02:40.760 three. If I remember, right.

00:02:41.660 He shot three. Yeah. I ended up not hunting so he could get in on, on his and yeah, his

00:02:47.300 first buck is, you know, shot a couple of does got like 60 pounds of meat. It was great.

00:02:52.740 That's awesome. Have you had any of it yet?

00:02:55.380 Not yet. Tonight, tonight we're going to barbecue.

00:02:58.220 So good. Yeah. When we were in Hawaii earlier in the year, I took some to the big Island with

00:03:03.700 me. And after our, after our hunt that we did together, and then we had a bunch of access

00:03:08.180 deer out there. And then we also did a goat hunt on the big Island. And we had that meat

00:03:13.560 there for dinner for a couple of nights. The first night was rough because we didn't cook

00:03:18.480 it right. So it's really tough. But the second, the second day we put that goat in the crock

00:03:23.500 pot and left it going all day while we went to the beach and did our thing and came back

00:03:26.780 that night and had goat tacos. Unbelievable. So good. Yeah. That stuff. The key is slow, right?

00:03:33.840 Yes. Slow, slow. So it takes a, get some of that tenderness. Otherwise it just gets tough and chewy

00:03:39.380 and not very good. So, well, cool, man. Well, let's get into some questions guys. If you're

00:03:43.840 listening for this for the first time, we are fielding questions today. They're coming from

00:03:48.940 our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council. And we're on a big push right now to really grow

00:03:53.840 our membership, uh, especially as we lead up and ramp up into the new year, because there's a lot

00:03:58.680 of guys out there, yourself included, potentially, uh, who want to, uh, make 2022 the best year that

00:04:06.160 you've had. So we're talking about goal setting. We're talking about the right strategies and

00:04:10.720 principles, but I think one of the most, well, there's two things that are really important in

00:04:13.720 the iron council. Number work is number one is you get the framework and you, and you got to have

00:04:18.220 frameworks, Sean. I think you would attest to that. Like having a framework for success is crucial

00:04:22.960 and you could probably be successful without it, but you can't replicate it unless you have

00:04:27.940 a framework that you can tap into that's proven to work. So that's number one. Number two is a

00:04:32.820 network. You got to have a network because if you're going at it alone again, maybe some degree

00:04:38.060 of success, but I guarantee that if you have a powerful network in your corner, that your success

00:04:44.180 is going to only improve exponentially. So we offer the framework and the network inside the iron

00:04:49.580 council, you can do that at order of man.com slash iron council, but let's get to the questions, man.

00:04:54.700 All right. First one is from Jerry Frawley. It says, if one was interested in getting into hunting,

00:05:02.400 but has never been, or have the friendships currently to help facilitate that experience,

00:05:07.800 what do you recommend they do to start down that path?

00:05:10.840 So wants to get into hunting, but doesn't have the experience and doesn't have the friendships

00:05:16.880 that, that are already hunting. Is that, am I understanding that correctly? Okay. Yeah.

00:05:22.400 I mean, I, I would, I would probably go on a very easy, like high success, like pig hunt in Texas.

00:05:28.460 I think that's what I would do. I've thought about this a lot. Like the best thing you can do is get

00:05:33.160 the experience in the field and potentially go with a guide or an outfitter that has proven to create a

00:05:39.060 bunch of success and just talk with that individual. They're probably not very expensive.

00:05:43.900 I haven't looked quite honestly, but you can go on a very high rate success, a high success rate pig hunt,

00:05:49.960 probably spend, I don't know, maybe a thousand bucks, maybe 1500 bucks. Talk with your guide.

00:05:54.740 He'll tell you what you need and just go and get in the field. There's other things that you can do.

00:05:59.400 You can learn from, uh, if you're into archery, for example, you can learn from John Dudley. Um,

00:06:04.720 you can check out YouTube. There's so many different ways to do it. And so many different hunting

00:06:08.680 shows. My oldest son is all the time. Dad, can I go watch a hunting video? He's always,

00:06:13.740 he's watching pig man right now as this guy right now. Um, but yeah, I, I think that's the best way

00:06:19.180 to do it. If you don't have a friend who's already hunting, that's the best way. But if you don't have

00:06:24.180 that, then go on a high success pig hunt in Texas, spend a couple of grand with your ticket food and

00:06:29.920 cost of the hunt. And I think you'll be immersed into it pretty quickly. I don't know what,

00:06:34.360 what suggestions do you have? Yeah, I, I would add to that. I actually like starting with a high

00:06:40.140 fence place because you don't have to get your licenses or any of that stuff. You just show up,

00:06:44.780 you pay per animal, especially if you've never been, uh, and, um, see if it's something even for

00:06:51.700 you to begin with. I know for me, I was, uh, my wife is interesting. Cause I've only been hunting now

00:06:57.160 for about five years. And when I got into it, my wife was like, how are you going to hunt? You won't

00:07:01.920 even kill spiders in our house. So I was like, okay, well, you know, I, I want to do it. I wanted

00:07:08.880 to, uh, know where my food came from and be more connected with that and get out of factory farming

00:07:16.460 and that sort of thing. It's funny. I actually watched all those vegan videos on Netflix, kind

00:07:20.980 of binge watched like food ink and sugar and, you know, all these things that are trying to make you

00:07:26.000 vegan. And it made me just want to source my meat. And so, uh, I got into that and wasn't sure how

00:07:32.700 I'd feel about shooting an animal. Quite frankly, I did it a couple of times when I was a kid with a

00:07:37.180 rifle and didn't like it. And so went out with the bow, got decent with the bow and, uh, and went out

00:07:44.340 there, but went to a high fence place. So I didn't have to go through the licensing process or any of that

00:07:49.000 showed up, shot a pig. Um, the guy there that ran the high fence place, uh, helped me, uh, quarter it

00:07:58.300 out, helped me gut it. It showed me the process. We went through all of it. He taught me a lot

00:08:02.920 and I loved it and especially loved once we had the meat and all of that. And I was hooked. And then I

00:08:10.720 got super involved in the whole process. And so for me, it was archery. So I think you have to figure

00:08:18.280 that out too. Uh, maybe you start with a rifle. Maybe you start with straight out with archery.

00:08:24.360 Everybody's different. Uh, I know personally, I don't like rifle hunting, so I only bow hunt. Um,

00:08:30.100 but like we just mentioned, Austin, I take him out with a rifle. I've taken my, uh, middle son Brody

00:08:36.600 out with the rifle as well, as young as 10 in California. I'm in California for now. Um, in

00:08:43.300 California like that. Yeah. We list our house November 1st actually. So, Oh really?

00:08:48.280 Yeah. Nice. But in California, you have to be 12 to legally hunt and get your license,

00:08:55.240 but at a high fence place, that requirement isn't, uh, necessary. And so during COVID actually

00:09:02.200 I took the boys out when they were 10 and 11 and they both shot pigs, uh, before they could get

00:09:09.100 their license to see how they would like it. And they turned out both loving it. So I like the high

00:09:14.840 fence place. I know a lot that's kind of for whatever reason, controversial, uh, you know,

00:09:19.580 uh, with people going, but I think it's the perfect place to learn.

00:09:23.740 I agree. And I don't have any problem with the high fence. You know, if, if I was going to choose,

00:09:28.520 I would choose to hunt the public or private land without it being fenced necessarily. Cause I think

00:09:33.660 there's a challenge that comes with that, but it's all hunting. And I think that's a great way,

00:09:37.960 but I will say, be careful on the licensing stuff because that may have been your experience, but

00:09:43.680 I know that there's areas where, you know, even on a high fence, you still would be required to

00:09:48.080 have a license with a state. So just make sure you, you know, your regulations, like figure that stuff

00:09:53.080 out. Um, if you're going to get into whether it's rifle hunting or archery, I do both. I like both.

00:09:59.160 And for different reasons, I mean, you can, here's the cool thing. You can go into any bow shop

00:10:03.880 and every town has a bow shop. You know, even this little rural area that I live,

00:10:08.040 they've got a bow shop 10 minutes from here. The guy's been a friend for the past three,

00:10:12.140 uh, almost three or two, two and a half years or so now. Um, he's, he, they're going to get you set

00:10:16.840 up. Like if you just go in there and you say, Hey, look, I don't know anything about this.

00:10:20.780 Uh, I've got $1,500 to spend on a bow. Uh, it may not, may not even be that much. Maybe it's a thousand

00:10:26.620 bucks. Uh, you're, they're going to get you dialed in, set up with a bow. Uh, they're going to get

00:10:30.700 you your arrows. They're going to get you a site. Most, most shops have, uh, an archery range built

00:10:36.040 into them so they can help you get that practice dialed in and start getting tight shop groups. So

00:10:42.120 like the resources are there. Um, there's a, there's an organization I'm working with right now,

00:10:47.280 and I'm actually going to go on a hunt. It's a, it's a, it's a pig hunt that the guys put together

00:10:52.280 and they teach you everything from what to look for, how to shoot. They have a range. And then you go

00:10:59.720 out and you shoot a pig and they show you how to break it down. They show you different meal prep

00:11:03.220 stuff. So like they, in a week, they take you through this entire process. So I'm doing that

00:11:07.540 early next year with my oldest son, because I actually want to make that resource available for,

00:11:12.060 for you guys. Cause I know there's so many of you who want to hunt. So yeah, I think those are all

00:11:16.740 great suggestions. Good ways to get into it. Yeah. If just one more thing I'd like to say too,

00:11:21.820 is that the community and hunting is something like I've never seen in anything else. Honestly. I mean,

00:11:27.400 it's like, especially growing up surfing, that's kind of like a selfish thing to do.

00:11:32.500 Guys don't want to share their spots and they don't want to share, you know, something in front

00:11:36.200 of each other, breaking into waves and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. But in hunting, it's the

00:11:41.440 opposite. And whether it's your local bull shop or your local gun shop, you just start asking about

00:11:46.140 hunting and resources and Holy smokes, man. I mean, it's like, it, it, everyone knows someone like

00:11:53.820 when we were in Hawaii, I didn't have to look up anything. My friend Shane was like, Hey, I have a

00:11:57.700 buddy on Maui, uh, go to call him up and, and see what happens. I end up, you know, he'd literally,

00:12:03.280 this guy would have taken me every day if I wanted to, uh, to, to different spots and, and the

00:12:08.680 resources are there. So many guys love sharing the experience and helping people get into it. So I

00:12:14.360 think you'll find that once you just start, like you said. Well, and not to mention, it's just better

00:12:18.820 having people with you when you're hunting, because again, we were in Hawaii with what seven

00:12:22.880 or so of us and the stories are better. The memories are better. There's more experiences.

00:12:27.780 We get to make fun of each other and there's all sorts of things we can make fun of each other

00:12:31.400 about, which I won't get into this podcast necessarily. Um, but then Minnesota was the

00:12:37.480 same way, you know, seven, eight of us. Uh, some of the guys were in Hawaii. We had some new guys

00:12:41.880 there with us. And after the hunt, after the morning sit, you know, before the evening sit or

00:12:47.700 after the morning sit, we were there hanging out, spending time together, having good

00:12:50.660 conversations. So like you said, the community is, is powerful. I mean, there's so much value

00:12:55.820 outside of the hunting world or the hunting aspect of it that makes it immensely valuable

00:13:00.380 for me. Yeah, I agree. Cool. All right. Next question. Next question is from Joshua

00:13:06.280 Cross Crosley. He says, how do you find ways to connect with the child that does not share

00:13:12.120 your interest? For example, you clearly have a ton of common interests with your oldest son,

00:13:16.640 but what about your other children that are very different than you?

00:13:21.140 Yeah. I mean, my, my other three, so I've got four, I've got three boys and a girl from the

00:13:26.400 ages of 13 to five, my 13 year old. Yeah. Clearly. I mean, we do a lot together. He's starting a

00:13:31.000 podcast. He loves hunting. He's very big into sports. He's lifting. He wasn't a jujitsu. He told

00:13:36.900 me the other day, he's like, dad, I can't train jujitsu with you. I'm like, what, why? He's like,

00:13:41.460 cause I can't lose any weight. I'm trying to, he's preparing for his power, his first power lifting

00:13:45.480 meet in the next week or two. So that was disappointing, but Hey, he's into it. You know,

00:13:52.160 my other kids aren't necessarily into the same things I am, but that doesn't mean I can't be

00:13:56.460 into their things. Right. So my second son is very big into our arts. Like he loves to draw and paint

00:14:03.960 and do all kinds of different art things. He's big into technology. So he likes coding on the computer.

00:14:09.180 He likes building websites, that sort of thing. Uh, and then he's a very analytical when it comes

00:14:14.700 to like building and breaking things down and seeing the way that they work. So he loves Legos.

00:14:20.680 Well, I love Legos too, but the other two, I'm not totally into, but that doesn't mean that

00:14:25.800 we can't share that common interest because it really isn't about me. It's about them.

00:14:31.820 And so if they're important to me, then that means the things that are into are important to me.

00:14:36.320 You know, my wife is another great example. She's into a more homesteading type activities,

00:14:42.220 I would say. So beekeeping, gardening, food canning and preservation. I'm not into those

00:14:48.480 things, but I love walking in the garden with my wife because she's so excited. I see that big smile

00:14:54.580 on her face and she's explaining all the different variations of tomatoes that she planted and the

00:14:59.580 different kinds of beans and why this grows there and that grows there and why she puts sunflowers

00:15:05.140 here. So it shades the tomato plant, like all this stuff that I don't really totally care about

00:15:10.040 except for when it comes time to eat, but because she's interested in it, I'm interested in it and

00:15:16.000 it isn't manufactured and I'm not pretending and I'm not patronizing her. Like I'm genuinely,

00:15:21.480 I love seeing her happy. I love seeing my children in their element. So we foster that whatever it is,

00:15:28.940 if it's cars, if it's Legos, if it's the computer, if it's just being outside and playing catch,

00:15:35.620 if it's, you know, wrestling, my youngest, my five-year-old, he loves to wrestle. So we bought

00:15:41.160 mats and we put mats in the front room and every day we spend, maybe it's 10 minutes a day, maybe

00:15:45.860 it's an hour, another day, because that's what time allows, but I'm into whatever they're into.

00:15:50.120 They don't need to be into what I'm into. I used to be that guy where it's like, man,

00:15:54.460 I really wish all my kids were into the same things. And to a degree, I still feel that way,

00:15:59.620 but now, Hey, look, if you're into whatever I'm into it too, let's, let's make it happen.

00:16:04.580 Let's figure it out. And plus it's a great opportunity for me to get exposed to new things

00:16:08.260 that I wouldn't probably do on my own or be interested in, or even introduced to any other

00:16:12.560 way. So I think there's just a level of curiosity that I have with my kids. I'm curious in them.

00:16:18.840 And I'm also curious in these activities. And it's, it's really been a great way to connect

00:16:24.440 with all of my kids, not just my oldest, who happens to be basically my clone without a beard.

00:16:29.900 Yeah. Which is very true.

00:16:33.140 Yeah. I would, I would add to that also create experiences to, or create time to connect where

00:16:41.640 my oldest is my daughter who's 16 and we don't do a lot of things. Actually, she was just talking

00:16:48.100 about hunting not too long ago. And Hey, you know, I'd like to go hunting with you. I was like,

00:16:51.920 that's awesome. But no, that part of the hunting is not just shooting the animal. We're going to have

00:16:56.360 to break it down. You're going to have to gut it. You're going to have to skin it. And you're going

00:17:00.500 to, and she's like, well, I don't want to do that. If you want to go hunting, you're going to have to

00:17:06.180 do that. Right. And, and so it's just one of those things that she has to understand if she wants to do

00:17:13.920 those things, but we don't have to do that to connect. I can do daddy daughter dates. We can go out and we can

00:17:19.580 just hang out when we're driving around, you know, she just got her driver's license and I, I make sure

00:17:25.500 we're talking that we're having conversations. I'm asking her about her friends. Before we were doing

00:17:31.720 that driving around, I would do it on Sundays. I do once a month, these daddy interviews where I would

00:17:38.460 ask them about their friends. Who are your best friends? What do you guys like to do? What are you

00:17:42.520 into right now? What are you, so asking those questions and just making sure that I'm finding

00:17:48.480 the time to connect with them, whether we have stuff in common or not, you can still have that

00:17:53.720 connection. Like you said, you know, like, you know, Brody, my 11 year old, he's a total, you know,

00:17:58.900 him and Austin are opposites. Austin's like the athlete and Brody's like the nerd, you know,

00:18:03.940 he loves coding and he loves all that stuff, but he's also a football player. He also does jujitsu

00:18:08.420 because I just told him to try it and he ended up liking it, but he's also tried soccer and

00:18:13.760 baseball. He didn't like those sports. He didn't like those things, but he at least tried, you

00:18:17.360 know, all, none of my kids, all my kids serve, but none of them love it. Like I do, you know,

00:18:21.800 so we don't have that connection with any of them, you know, and it, well, they do it sometimes.

00:18:26.160 Yeah. But we do it as a thing, as a place to connect, not as a, something that we both love

00:18:32.120 doing, you know? So it's, it's when they talk like Brody, for instance, if he talks about

00:18:37.680 coding or those, he gets super into it. And most of what he's talking about, I have no idea what

00:18:41.560 he's talking about, but I'll still listen. I'll still ask questions and be involved.

00:18:46.420 Yeah. No, that's good. There's a, as you were saying that about creating these experiences,

00:18:51.160 because I think that is really important. What a lot of guys will do is they'll get busy and

00:18:56.660 consumed with all their day-to-day activities and work and all this other stuff they have going on.

00:19:01.880 And then if, and when they have any time left, then they'll go ahead and spend whatever's

00:19:07.660 remaining with their kids. And it's usually very minimal, right? So they come home from work,

00:19:13.000 maybe, maybe have dinner together, which I think is a non-negotiable guys, like make that happen,

00:19:19.620 have dinner with your family, sitting down, not watching TV, like sitting at the dining room table

00:19:25.460 and eating together where you can ask those questions that you just posed a second ago,

00:19:30.140 Sean. Uh, so, but so you have dinner together and then it's like, they have sports or they want to

00:19:36.380 go out with their friends. And so there's no real time. So you have to create that. And there's a

00:19:40.240 great resource, uh, called the family board meeting. Have you ever, have you ever heard that

00:19:45.320 Sean family board meeting? I haven't heard that, but it's sounds like it's going to be similar to

00:19:50.840 what we do every week. Probably. Um, he actually talks about it from an annual perspective of

00:19:56.780 creating this one big, uh, event or, or scenario that you can do with, with your kids, but you let

00:20:05.160 them be hyper-involved in the process. So this is a book family board meeting by Jim Shields, I believe

00:20:11.360 is his last name. Uh, and he talks about how to structure these meetings, these board, he calls them

00:20:17.560 board meetings. Cause I think they're into surfing as well. That's why they're called board meetings,

00:20:20.820 Oh, got it. Yeah. But he, how to structure these things, how to set them up, how to get your kids

00:20:26.560 involved. Uh, one year I took my second son who is really, really into cars. I just said that

00:20:32.840 I'm not, I'm not into cars. I don't, I don't really care. You know, I see these guys with

00:20:37.900 their luxury cars and their high performance cars and they're cool. Nothing wrong with it,

00:20:41.580 but like, that isn't my thing. I don't, I don't, I'm not too excited about that. Um, but he is man.

00:20:46.900 And he can tell me every kind of car and what the engine is and all the components of it and

00:20:52.240 how fast it goes and how much it costs and all that kind of stuff. So one year, uh, when we were

00:20:57.360 in Utah, we were about an hour and a half, two hours North of Vegas. We decided, Hey, we're going

00:21:02.120 to go to the racetrack. It was his birthday. And so we went down to the racetrack and I was going to

00:21:06.460 get, you know, the lessons or whatever on the racetrack with some of these high performance cars.

00:21:10.540 Well, he ended up being too small. He didn't weigh enough. So that racetrack we went to

00:21:15.140 wouldn't let him ride. Cause he, he wasn't heavy enough. So we went to another racetrack on the

00:21:19.880 other end of Vegas. They said the same thing. And I'm like, well, screw this. And we went to the

00:21:24.680 exotic car rental place and we rented, I don't even know what we rented some Acura ZXT or who knows?

00:21:31.640 Like he, he could tell me again, he knows. Um, and we raced that thing around Vegas for like four

00:21:38.020 or five hours and it was awesome. You know, I had fun. He had fun. It opened his eyes to

00:21:44.340 possibilities. He talked about how he wants to own a car like this. And we use that as fuel to be

00:21:49.380 able to talk about adding value into people's lives in exchange for money and being able to

00:21:54.160 find a lucrative career, but following things that are important to you. And man, it just turned to

00:21:59.080 this powerful conversation all because we spent what? 24 hours and maybe between getting down there

00:22:07.240 and gas, food, hotel, and the rental, I mean, maybe a thousand bucks, but that thousand dollars

00:22:13.240 was well worth, well worth the time and the energy and the, and the interest that I expressed to him

00:22:19.460 and gave him some, some possibility. He still talks about that. And that was probably three years ago,

00:22:24.860 two, three years ago. So maybe even might've been more like four years ago. So he keeps talking about

00:22:29.980 it. It's powerful stuff, man. Yeah. The time is more important than anything, I think. Yeah.

00:22:35.280 And all of that. I'm trying to pull up the author of this book. Cause yeah, Jim, let's see. Yeah. Jim

00:22:41.300 Shields. Yep. That's right. Yeah. They, I don't know if you've heard of the heirs, their husband,

00:22:48.860 wife, they've written a bunch of different books, family books, especially we've used some things from

00:22:54.840 them. They talk about family economy and we've done that. And it's that you've mentioned board meeting.

00:23:01.140 We kind of do an annual thing where we look at everybody's, you know, kind of what they want for

00:23:05.660 the year goals they have. Um, we do it before summertime. We do it before breaks, things like

00:23:11.040 that. Um, what sports they want to be involved in. And then that breaks down to our family nights

00:23:16.840 weekly, uh, every week on Sunday nights, we, or daytime, we look at what everybody has for the week

00:23:24.800 and what they're doing so that we're all on the same page. And we all know, Hey, you know,

00:23:30.640 so-and-so is going to be a little heavier on their time spent this week because they have football or

00:23:35.700 they have playoffs or they have this going on, you know, so-and-so has finals and they're going to

00:23:40.260 need a little extra help. And so we're going to be doing that, you know, Hey, mom and dad have this

00:23:44.760 coming up. So we're going to be a little less present this week or whatever, but at least we're all on

00:23:48.820 the same page. And we know that, and we can carve out, make the time. Like you said, if we're looking

00:23:54.180 at a bird's eye view of our calendar each week, we can find the time to make sure that's being spent

00:23:58.880 together. Yeah. A hundred percent. And I, and what you're talking about is this level of intentionality

00:24:03.800 that most people just don't have in their lives. And then they wonder why they're not connected with

00:24:07.800 their kids or they're not intimate with their wife, or they're not getting the promotion there.

00:24:11.280 They say they want, or they're not losing weight or any number of things. It's like,

00:24:14.920 okay, well you're not being intentional about it. And sometimes this is my personality. I don't know

00:24:20.360 if this is yours, Sean, but if you gave me like four hours to complete a task, my knee-jerk reaction

00:24:25.600 is to just go, like go from zero to a hundred miles an hour immediately. And I have, I actually

00:24:31.840 have to temper myself and say, hold on. Like it's that adage. If you give me six hours to chop down a

00:24:37.080 tree, I'll spend the first two or whatever it is sharpening my ax. I have to personally do that

00:24:41.720 where, and I do it every morning. I do it with our, our, our battle planner. Like every morning,

00:24:46.520 it's very tempting for me to say, I'm not going to fill that out. Like I got, I'm too busy. I'm just

00:24:50.560 going to go. And every time I do that, I'm less effective. I'm more stressed. And then when I sit

00:24:57.820 down for 10, 20 minutes and I map out my day, I figure out exactly what I'm going to do, why I'm

00:25:03.520 going to do it. Um, even this morning, you know, I sent you a message. I'm like, Hey man, I can't

00:25:07.640 meet at 11, but let's do 1115. Well, I did that because I sat down and I actually looked at my

00:25:12.440 calendar. I'm like, no, that's too tight. And so I made those adjustments, but what if I didn't do

00:25:17.200 that? Well, then I'd be stressed out. You would have joined me on a call earlier. So you would

00:25:22.000 have actually bumped into and butted into the call, the podcast that I had prior to this, it would

00:25:26.940 created, it would have created problems, but because I took that 10 to 15 minutes and I was very

00:25:32.040 deliberate and intentional about my day, it creates all sorts of better opportunities and more

00:25:37.480 effective, uh, ways of doing things throughout the day. Just more efficient money. That's my sir.

00:25:44.460 All right, man. What's next? Next question. Jason Smith. What does the father daughter event look

00:25:49.560 like so far, as far as challenges, activities, speakers excited for my daughter and I to participate?

00:25:54.960 I'm excited too. I don't know though. Like if I'm being really honest, I don't know. So you guys know

00:26:00.800 this, if you've been around for any amount of time, like I don't talk a whole lot about my daughter

00:26:05.280 on the podcast or even on social media by design, like I'm just, we know as fathers, we're just more

00:26:10.780 protective of our daughters than we are of his sons. I would say that's pretty universally true.

00:26:15.420 Anybody who says that's not the case is why I just think they're lying about it or something. Like

00:26:20.140 we're way more protected with our daughters a hundred. Wouldn't you agree? Yeah, absolutely.

00:26:24.500 Yeah. Yeah. Um, but there's been enough of a demand. So if you guys don't know what, what he's talking

00:26:30.180 about, there's enough of a demand. And I think it's time that instead of just focusing on father's

00:26:34.940 relationships with their sons, that we also consider how that relationship dynamic would work and how

00:26:39.580 we can improve our relationships with our daughters. So we are going to be doing a father

00:26:43.920 daughter event in 2022. Um, everything that we do now is done here in the barn. So when we do our

00:26:49.380 legacy event, you know, Sean, cause you guys were out here, you guys stay in the barn. We were all

00:26:54.040 together. Like that wouldn't be appropriate for a father daughter event. So that's going to have to

00:26:58.900 change. Like they aren't going to stay here at the property. They're going to, they're lodging

00:27:03.360 wherever it's going to be built into the package. Um, but I don't anticipate it being all that

00:27:09.300 different as far as activities. I mean, why, why would it, would a young lady not be interested in

00:27:15.600 doing physical fitness with her dad? Why would she not be interested in learning some jujitsu? In fact,

00:27:20.860 I would say learning self-defense could be potentially maybe even more important for a

00:27:25.380 daughter to learn, um, archery hatchet, throwing the conversations, planning, like everything that

00:27:31.680 we do. I'm not sure it's going to be all that different. Just some of the logistics might tweak

00:27:36.500 and change a little bit just for the appropriateness of, of the, the event. That's all I can give.

00:27:43.860 I don't know. I don't know. Again, I'm one of these guys. Look, I just said it. I'm one of these guys.

00:27:48.780 It's like father, daughter event. Yeah, definitely. Let's do it. And then I pull the trigger and I'm

00:27:52.600 like, wait, where was I aiming? I don't remember what we're trying to do. And so it's been good in

00:27:57.880 a lot of ways because I get a lot of shit done. Uh, but it's also been a challenge in that sometimes

00:28:03.940 I leave a wake of collateral damage. Cause I don't think about like how those decisions and my actions

00:28:10.280 impact fully everything else that I might have going on. Uh, and then things aren't as efficient.

00:28:16.580 And so I ended up having to go in and backfill and say, well, that was stupid. And that was a

00:28:20.040 mistake. And that was inefficient. We lost money here and we did this here and that was good. And

00:28:23.420 that was bad. And so I have to like backfill all of that. So I don't know what's better. There's

00:28:27.460 probably a spectrum and it's probably different depending on the situation, but I've always been

00:28:31.740 a very intuitive action oriented person. So I need to temper that at times. Cause I know that about

00:28:36.740 myself. Sounds right though. I think, uh, your thought process is on the right path as far as what

00:28:43.680 to do. Yeah, it is. I think again, intuitively, you know, people say, well, how do you know, like,

00:28:49.360 right, how do you know this is going to work? And it's like, I don't actually know. I just did a

00:28:53.060 podcast last week. Uh, and, and I, I said, what did I title it? Like developing the let's find out

00:28:59.040 mentality because a lot of people, what they do is these guys are walking around and they're like,

00:29:03.900 well, what if this happens? And what if this goes bad? And what about this scenario? And they play

00:29:09.240 this what if game. And it's like, you know, you could do that and you could, you could find out

00:29:14.260 all the little fault flaws and faults and vulnerabilities in your plan or your thought

00:29:18.140 process. Or you can just say, let's find out, you know, like let's, let's just put it all on and put

00:29:24.880 it all on red and let it ride and like, see what happens. Cause what's the worst that can happen

00:29:29.040 that can, that can happen if you do that. I mean, I'm not performing brain surgery, right? Like I'm not

00:29:35.300 putting my entire family's life savings at risk. I'm not putting my family or friends,

00:29:40.440 mental or physical wellbeing in any danger. So like, what's the worst that can happen? I lose a

00:29:45.340 few bucks, don't sleep maybe as much as I could end up failing and then figuring it out along the way.

00:29:50.580 So again, that's easy for me to say, because that's my personality. I know that isn't as easy

00:29:57.180 for some guys who are more analytical by nature, maybe a little bit more, uh, afraid of risk

00:30:04.740 that's something that, you know, I have to consider as well.

00:30:09.220 Yeah. And I can say this from being at the legacy that was world-class, but you told us the story.

00:30:14.380 The first one wasn't as a matter of fact, it didn't even happen.

00:30:17.220 Yeah. Yeah. I lost money on it, you know, because nobody showed up and I lost and I didn't lose my

00:30:22.620 security deposit, but I ended up bumping it back several months and it was more expensive because

00:30:27.640 it was in the season that I did it where we're at the lodge we were staying at. And so, you know,

00:30:31.860 I look at that and that's a failure. The a hundred percent, that's a failure. Guys don't like saying,

00:30:35.880 well, you didn't fail. You learned. No, I did both. I failed and I learned from it and I'm okay with

00:30:40.760 that. Like that's a, what my friend Pete Roberts would call a tuition payment. And, and we, and look,

00:30:46.140 I don't want to pay more tuition than I have to, but all of us have to pay. There's a, there's a

00:30:50.680 price to be paid. And sometimes that's money. Sometimes that's sleep. Sometimes that's, you know,

00:30:56.380 your, your mental or emotional wellbeing, but it has to be paid. So I'm willing to pay it.

00:31:02.140 Yeah. And the more you pay, the more you'll get back.

00:31:06.180 Yeah. It's an investment, right? As opposed to just a payment or a tuition. It's, it's actually

00:31:10.920 an investment in your future and in a possibility. Yeah.

00:31:14.280 Yeah. All right. Next question. Joseph Hayton. I have five children, four girls and one boy.

00:31:22.520 My boy needs, my boy needs to learn how to be a little tougher, mostly mentally. I take him hunting

00:31:29.360 and he enjoys sports, but anytime things get hard, he wants to quit. I've always made him

00:31:33.540 finish out the season, but he ends up hating me for a few weeks. I'm afraid that if he doesn't

00:31:37.860 find some fortitude, he'll be a quitter in high school and beyond what activities would

00:31:42.940 you suggest that could cultivate more mental toughness and fortitude?

00:31:47.600 I actually saw this question and it is a challenge because my kids are pretty tough and I wonder if

00:31:56.900 that's nature or nurture. It's probably a bit of both. And, and I mean, I'd like to say that it's

00:32:04.520 because of what we've done, but at the same time, like a lot of it is just their personalities,

00:32:08.160 you know? So, but there is one flaw that I think that we have in society. There's a lot of flaws

00:32:15.660 actually, but one, as it relates to this is that a lot of the times, even we as fathers,

00:32:20.620 we celebrate the end result more than we do the process. Right. So, so for example my second son had

00:32:29.620 a football game yesterday and it really didn't go well. Like he played okay. The team didn't play well

00:32:37.620 at all. The team they played against, they were big, strong, athletic kids. They were a significantly

00:32:42.480 better team, but our team just didn't play to the standard they could. And it was very tempting for me

00:32:48.560 to say, well, you know, you really need to improve this and that, and you lost and we want to win.

00:32:54.560 And sure. Yes. We, the goal is to win of course, but I thought about it as I was contemplating what I

00:33:01.280 was going to talk about with my son on the ride home. And instead of that, I led off with, Hey,

00:33:07.180 I'm really proud of you. And he's, and he kind of looked at me. He's like, but we lost dad. I said,

00:33:12.920 yeah, you did lose. Sure. But I'm still proud of you because you played hard. You didn't let your

00:33:19.580 head head down. The guy that he was blocking 99 was a huge child, like massive, like, like a man.

00:33:28.000 And, and he had to, and my son, my second son is not that big for his age. And, and he blocked him

00:33:33.580 and he did his best and he got flat backed a bunch of times. And, but he got up every time he

00:33:38.020 didn't pull himself out of the game. He was a little banged up. And I said, that's what I'm

00:33:41.980 proud of is I'm proud of not the scoreboard. Sure. We want to win and we'll figure out ways to make

00:33:47.020 that happen, but I'm proud that you got up. I'm proud that you were there. I want you to consider

00:33:51.380 how many kids aren't even playing football that maybe they should be, or they have a desire to,

00:33:56.200 but they're afraid. Uh, or how many kids ask themselves to get pulled out of the game because it was hard,

00:34:01.460 even though they didn't really need to be pulled out of the game. And we talked about the behavior

00:34:07.020 more than we talked about the end result. And I told him, I said, look, the results are going to

00:34:12.100 take care of themselves. You're going to get better. You're going to improve. You're going to learn new

00:34:16.880 skills that are going to help you win. But the attitude that you have is going to help you succeed

00:34:22.380 in life well beyond what's going to happen in a football game that you're not going to remember in

00:34:26.140 two weeks, let alone 20 years. So I think we, the point I'm making here is that we just need to do

00:34:33.980 a better job celebrating the behaviors, the, the actions, the process, especially in, in little

00:34:44.940 kids more than the result itself. There's a line though, because you might, if you, if you go too

00:34:52.540 far, it might become like, well, at least you're here and you had fun. Well, no, that's not really

00:34:56.620 the objective either. So you do have to be careful of getting into that participation trophy mentality.

00:35:02.720 There's both. And then it's on a spectrum, just like anything else. So you, you, you got to find

00:35:07.780 that, that proper balance and where to apply it based on the conversations that need to be had in

00:35:11.900 any given time. I think you nailed it right there with the end is it's the conversations and the,

00:35:19.320 what we talked about earlier and making the time and having the conversation. It's not

00:35:23.020 just the season or putting them in athletics or jujitsu or whatever it is, that's going to make

00:35:28.040 them stronger. What's going to make them stronger is you pointing out what they're doing, right.

00:35:31.980 You congratulating them on what you saw in their effort or whatever it is. And I think, especially

00:35:38.320 as men, we tend to focus on that because we get it a lot growing up. We get it from coaches. We get it

00:35:43.300 from teachers. We get it from our parents. A lot of the time where they only point out the things

00:35:47.720 we're not good at or that we did wrong or that we made mistakes in, but they're not great at pointing

00:35:52.440 out our strengths and what we're doing. Right. And so I think it's important that you accentuate

00:35:57.920 those things in your children, no matter what it is, you tell them what they're doing, right.

00:36:02.540 Regardless of, like you said, the outcome. And then it's those conversations though, that are

00:36:08.260 powerful. It's not necessarily even the action. It's, it's you making sure that they understand

00:36:14.600 what you liked about what they did. And that hopefully is the stuff that sticks. You can only

00:36:22.260 teach principles. You can, you can point out what they did, right. You know, if you're, if we're

00:36:27.740 talking football, both of my boys had totally opposite seasons where, you know, Brody's team did

00:36:34.360 outstanding. He scored, I think like 10 or 12 touchdowns this year as a running back, which is

00:36:39.860 unexpected for that guy. You know, but he just crushed it. And then Austin's team, they didn't

00:36:45.740 win a single game. They only scored once all season. I think they just got crushed, but their

00:36:51.280 thing was an attitude thing. So it was a great experience for us though, for me and Austin,

00:36:57.500 because Austin wants to win at everything. He's super competitive. He wants to excel and he did his

00:37:04.300 best. And I pointed that out every game, like, man, you gave it except for one game. And this is

00:37:09.660 two weeks ago. And I told him, you know, this is the first time all season I've been disappointed

00:37:14.160 because you let your attitude get ahold of you. You, you got down on yourself. You let another kid

00:37:19.920 get in your head. You started arguing with your own team. And you know, it's the only time all season

00:37:25.140 I've been disappointed. It's when you give your best and you don't use the referee as an excuse and you

00:37:30.620 don't use other players, not blocking for your, whatever it is as your excuse. And you give it

00:37:35.800 your all anyways, I'm going to be proud of you no matter what I'm going to love you regardless if

00:37:41.600 you win or lose, if you do your best or not, but I'll tell you what, I'm going to be proud of you

00:37:45.920 if you do your best. And I don't know if that's going to stick, right? All I can do is, is church

00:37:51.400 leader of mine was famous for saying you teach correct principles and let them govern themselves.

00:37:57.080 That's all I'm hoping for my kids, but I have to make sure I'm having those conversations and

00:38:01.940 teaching those principles. Well, you're there's a, there's another thing that you're hitting on

00:38:06.120 that you, you skimmed over that. I think guys really need to hear is you're also telling the

00:38:10.760 truth. Yes. Like it's so important. It's gotta be true. That's glad you pointed that out. It has

00:38:17.020 to be true. Cause a lot of parents, they can smell it, right? They can, they know. Yes. They know.

00:38:23.360 Yeah. Because what a lot of parents will do is they'll say, well, you played really hard and you

00:38:26.560 played your hardest. Well, the kid didn't play his hardest and you know, as a parent, he didn't,

00:38:29.900 but you say it now you're a liar. So you actually undermined your own credibility, but also you need

00:38:35.660 to be able to have a hard conversation, which is, um, and I've had that same conversation.

00:38:40.240 One of my, my oldest son asked me after one of his games, like, what'd you think about the way I

00:38:43.700 played? And I said, you know, I don't think you played as hard as you could. Like I have to be

00:38:48.180 willing to tell the truth. It's the same thing. And guys always laugh at me when I say this, but I will

00:38:52.900 stand by this. This is a Hill that I will die on. When my wife asked me about a particular

00:38:57.700 pair of pants or a dress, like I'm going to tell her straight up, Hey, you know, that one's not as

00:39:02.420 flattering or, you know, I, that one, I don't like as much as this other dress that you have.

00:39:07.740 Like, I know that sounds like a very small trivial thing, but it's not like I'm telling the truth.

00:39:14.900 And so when she comes to me and says, how does this look? And I say, you look beautiful.

00:39:18.900 She knows that's true because I would say otherwise. Yeah. And so we have to be willing

00:39:25.800 to tell the truth in all things. There's a couple of other points that I made here as you were talking

00:39:31.420 that I think will help with the mindset thing. And then, and the mental toughness family mantras

00:39:37.480 are big for us little quips that we use and say, and tease each other about. So we have two that came

00:39:43.380 to mind immediately is number one, Mickler's do hard things. It's not even, it's not even we do

00:39:49.860 hard things or hard. Like we're going to try it's Mickler's do hard things. That's an expect. If

00:39:55.120 you're a Mickler, that's an expectation that we do hard things. The other one is Mickler's try new

00:40:00.020 things, whether that's at the dinner table and you have to try a new vegetable or a food that doesn't

00:40:04.500 look particularly appetizing. Like Mickler's try new things and Mickler's do hard things. They all laugh

00:40:11.200 and roll their eyes when I say we tease each other about it, but I also catch them saying it to each

00:40:15.560 other. My, my children saying it to each other and calling each other out when one of them is not

00:40:22.140 doing what they should be doing. Hey, Mickler's do hard things. You know that. And then they get

00:40:26.060 after it. They're holding each other accountable. So family mantras. And then also there might be,

00:40:32.080 this goes into the last question or one of the last questions about not being interested in the same

00:40:37.420 thing that your kids are. They're not going to be as excited about things that don't interest them.

00:40:44.580 So we have to ask ourselves, are we getting them involved in activities for them or for us?

00:40:51.460 Yeah. And if it's for us, then maybe it's not a mental toughness issue. Maybe it's a lack of interest.

00:40:58.540 And if there's another activity or sport or interest or hobby that they actually enjoy and they're like

00:41:08.080 very interested in it, I don't think you're going to have to teach mental toughness. So I think there's

00:41:13.740 also some, some, some space here to evaluate whether the activity is in their wheelhouse or not,

00:41:19.760 and still doing things that aren't comfortable is good, but also let's try to explore the veins

00:41:24.940 of interest that they have. I think that's important too. Yeah. That was money. That was

00:41:29.680 gold. As you said that I thought of coaching, you know, in, in coaching kids and coaching youth,

00:41:36.120 you see so many coaches, especially dads that just want to win at all costs. Right. And they're just,

00:41:42.560 it's a, but it's because they want to win and they're, they're like, most of the time the kids

00:41:47.420 don't care, especially when they're younger. Right. You have like, they want their kids to make them

00:41:51.200 look good. That's what they want. Yeah. I've, I've seen literally coaches with their own sons,

00:41:57.020 um, in a, in a critical situation in a game and they tell their kid to walk intentionally or

00:42:04.000 whatever. Um, you know, not swing the bat and, uh, let's try and get you on that way because,

00:42:10.060 you know, little Johnny's coming up after you and we want him to try and win the game. Well,

00:42:14.380 how deflated did you just make your kid instead of giving him the opportunity to do something great.

00:42:19.420 And then if he doesn't, if he strikes out, there's a learning lesson there too. But instead of

00:42:23.020 that, you want to win so bad, you want to win so bad that you're not willing to give him that

00:42:29.180 opportunity. Right. I mean, it's, it's, it's pretty sad actually when you see it happens.

00:42:33.940 It is sad. And I've done that, you know, I've personally done that. So I had a situation years

00:42:39.060 and years ago where we had, uh, playing baseball. Uh, we were, I think I can't really remember the exact

00:42:46.320 scenario. We were either up by a run or two or down by a run or two. And I, we needed our pitcher

00:42:52.120 to just close out the inning. That's why I think we were up and we needed the pitcher to close out

00:42:56.560 the inning and he was struggling. And I yelled at him and I saw him got like, I broke him a little

00:43:04.360 bit and I saw him got teary eyed and I'm like, Oh shit. What are you doing, man? Like, is the game

00:43:11.700 this important that you're going to break down a young man who actually is very, very talented

00:43:19.040 and potentially turn them off from something that will serve him for the rest of his life? Because

00:43:23.740 you're being an asshole. And I remember that. And it's still stinks to this day that I did that.

00:43:29.720 And I talked with him and I talked with his dad and, you know, he kept playing for me for a couple

00:43:34.180 of years after. And he's a very talented, hardworking, athletic kid, man, that could have gone very

00:43:41.180 badly. I'm so glad that I caught myself and checked myself on that, but we do it, man. And it sucks

00:43:47.080 because we're really doing some, some damage to the young men and young women. We say we're trying

00:43:52.100 to serve all because we let our own ego and arrogance get in the way. Yeah. That is key

00:43:57.180 that you caught it though. And said something and correct. Yeah, of course. And you have to,

00:44:01.300 and that's again, that's letting the ego go. Right. Cause I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to

00:44:05.760 talk to him and his dad about the things that I did wrong as his coach. Yeah. That's an,

00:44:10.320 that's an ego thing. That isn't a productive outcome thing. That's me worrying more about my

00:44:14.460 ego than it is to have productive outcomes. Awesome. Awesome. There's one says, Sean,

00:44:20.180 when will we get our BJJ rematch from the legacy event? That's from Jake Thompson.

00:44:25.580 Anytime. Anytime. Name the place and the time I will be there. Name the parking lot. That's right.

00:44:33.340 Yeah, no, absolutely. Next time we're together, I'd love to. Let's see. Wayne McPherson or McPherson.

00:44:43.420 It seems as though society is trying to redefine what it means to be a man on a weekly, if not daily

00:44:48.840 basis. At what point do we acknowledge it can't all be a coincidence and what can one do about it?

00:44:56.360 Uh, not sure the lone wolf mentality will benefit many in the long run. Yeah. I mean,

00:45:02.140 I think that's a hundred percent, right. I think we've been there for a very long time from things

00:45:05.920 as seemingly innocuous as, uh, the, the buffoon father on every sitcom that you see to the family

00:45:14.760 court system. We're having somebody on the podcast to talk about family court system and how that's

00:45:19.680 stacked against men. Uh, you know, you look at suicide, depression, drug abuse, high school

00:45:26.480 dropout rates, runaway rate. I mean, it's horrible. It's horrible. I mean, things are really stacked

00:45:32.160 against men right now. Uh, there's some great books out there. One by Dr. Leonard Sachs,

00:45:36.700 boys adrift and why gender matters. Uh, and then one by Dr. Warren Farrell called the boy crisis.

00:45:42.360 And they talk about this. Now we do have to be a little bit care, be careful of this because

00:45:47.500 like, I don't ever want it to come across as complaining or victimhood mentality. And every

00:45:53.000 time I point out something that I see societally wrong, there is inevitably somebody who's like,

00:45:57.640 well, you're just playing a victim. No guys, listen very carefully to acknowledge the problem

00:46:03.680 is not to play the victim, but to sit in it and wallow in it and never do anything about it and use

00:46:10.240 it as an excuse to self-destruct. Okay. That's victim mentality. Yeah. But to acknowledge a problem

00:46:16.680 and then begin to formulate solutions and plans and strategies and ways to improve and ways to

00:46:23.160 overcome, that's not a victimhood mentality. Could you imagine being a warrior and leading an army

00:46:29.300 into battle, but saying, Hey, I don't want to be a victim. So we're not really going to study the

00:46:33.780 enemy. What? Right. Or going into, since we're talking about sports, going into a football game and

00:46:40.260 saying, Hey, we don't really want to play the victim card here. So we're not going to study tape.

00:46:43.840 We're just going to show up and just, you know, like wing it and see how it goes. That's ridiculous.

00:46:49.100 And yet there's a lot of people who believe that just because you point out some flaws and

00:46:52.520 challenges and issues with society, that somehow, somehow it's the victimhood mentality. It isn't

00:46:57.540 guys. If you want to know what you're up against, you have to know what your enemy is doing.

00:47:02.840 And that's not hyperbole, by the way, I wholeheartedly believe that the government primarily

00:47:09.160 would love nothing more than to see men be weak and cowardly and pathetic and not at the head of

00:47:16.520 their household, not leading their families and their businesses and their communities. Well,

00:47:20.800 not building levels of wealth that make them free, let them pursue those things, not be educating

00:47:28.400 their children and let the ward do it through public school systems. I've that that's the enemy.

00:47:35.060 That's the enemy to me. And that's the enemy to my family. So the first step to answer Wayne's

00:47:40.480 question is acknowledgement. It's kind of like recovery or overcoming addiction. The first step

00:47:46.620 is acknowledging that there's a problem. If you're not willing to admit that nothing else matters

00:47:51.800 because you're not going to do anything about it because you don't recognize anything as being a

00:47:54.820 problem. So number one, I think that's what order of man is. You've acknowledged that. And that's why,

00:48:01.000 why you started this movement to reclaim and restore masculinity.

00:48:05.460 And that's why we use that verbiage, by the way, reclaim and restore, not redefine.

00:48:10.580 Masculinity doesn't need to be redefined. It needs to be restored. It needs to be reclaimed. We need to

00:48:15.500 step into it. We need to embrace it. And I have a bunch of people who love to say things like, well,

00:48:20.600 you know, the reason men are so depressed is because we've been conditioned to hold in our emotions.

00:48:25.140 No, the reason men are so depressed is because everybody, since the time they were young men,

00:48:29.640 little boys have been telling them to act like little girls. And that's why you're depressed

00:48:34.420 because you see yourself as a man is as this. And yet you're told and reinforced to behave like this.

00:48:41.760 And there's this huge discrepancy between the way that you feel and the way that you're supposed to

00:48:46.840 behave. You're supposed to be men. You're supposed to be strong. You're supposed to be capable. You're

00:48:52.980 supposed to be developing skills. You're supposed to be leading yourself and other people. Well,

00:48:57.660 you're supposed to be fit. You're supposed to be adding value and in turn, building levels of

00:49:01.940 wealth. That's what you're supposed to be doing. And anybody who is doing that, I call it bridging

00:49:07.540 that integrity gap. Any man who is doing that is going to feel better about himself, barring

00:49:13.240 mental illness and some of those things that are certainly a factor. But somebody who does not have

00:49:19.260 mental illness or chronic depression and these types of things can solve a lot of their own

00:49:24.920 problems about feelings of inadequacy and underperformance by performing, by improving

00:49:30.920 and by getting better. So the first step, acknowledgement. Number two, fix yourself.

00:49:37.360 You got to fix yourself. You got to build wealth. You got to lose weight. You've got to add value.

00:49:43.700 You've got to develop skillset. You've got to have hobbies and activities and interest.

00:49:47.780 You've got to build a band of brothers. These are the things that we're talking about.

00:49:50.820 You've got to have the framework and the network, like we addressed earlier. And then once you have

00:49:55.500 that, the first thing that you do is you lead your family. So you teach your sons and daughters how to

00:50:00.760 do it. We talked a little bit about that here in this podcast, you lead your wife, you walk hand in

00:50:06.940 hand with her, you help her where she's weak. She helps you where you are and you get better. So you

00:50:12.600 lead your family. Number two, you start now expanding that, that locus of control, right? So now you go

00:50:20.580 into your community and you serve, you serve on school boards, you go volunteer at the school

00:50:29.340 to help out with, with young men and young women who need help with tutoring or mentorship or whatever

00:50:34.960 you coach youth sports teams. And you get involved because you might be the only permanent male

00:50:40.520 fixture in those young men's lives. And then from there, you just keep expanding, but only as your

00:50:46.300 capacity to do so. Like you can't go out and say, well, you know, like I really want to change

00:50:50.100 everything. So I'm going to go run for president. It's like, well, hold up. What about all this other

00:50:53.480 stuff? And could you imagine if tens or hundreds of millions of men across the planet said, I'm going

00:50:59.680 to lose weight. I'm gonna learn how to add value. I'm going to make a lot more money than I currently

00:51:04.920 am. I'm going to pursue things that are meaningful to me. I'm going to build up friendships. I'm going to

00:51:09.660 lead my family and I'm going to serve in my community. Like imagine 10 million men doing that.

00:51:15.540 And then the other thing I would say, the last point that I would make on this is that you have

00:51:20.400 a responsibility to help other men do those things. So if you've, if you have all of that dialed in,

00:51:25.320 then you have responsibility to pass it on and passing it on might be as simple as getting out

00:51:30.100 your phone right now, taking a screenshot and, and sending this, this podcast to your brother or your

00:51:38.240 dad or a friend or a coworker who needs to hear it or posting it up on social media, or maybe you're in the

00:51:44.680 iron council and you know, somebody's struggling Wayne. And so you're like, you know what? I want

00:51:49.020 you to be an iron council. Come join me and paying for his membership. If you have to, right? Like

00:51:54.420 if, if it means just sharing the work that we're doing here, then that's great. Do that. If it's

00:52:00.580 starting your own men's club or men's organization or getting together every Friday, I get emails from

00:52:05.260 guys who have men's meetups. A lot of them revolve around church and they'll take a spiritual message

00:52:11.220 from, from church. And then they'll also take whatever the Friday field notes was. And they'll

00:52:16.320 use that as a point of discussion that other guys use the book and they'll break it down into chapters

00:52:20.780 and sections of the book. And they'll discuss one chapter per month. We we've been doing this for

00:52:26.540 six years, six and a half years now, thousands and thousands of hours, hundreds of thousands of words

00:52:32.580 at your disposal, use them to help other guys do the same thing that you're doing right now.

00:52:38.720 Yeah. Good answer. I've thought about it. I've thought about it a little bit.

00:52:44.020 Yeah. You can tell it's obvious. Yeah. Cool, man. Let's take one or two more.

00:52:48.880 All right. Austin Yardley says, what are the first steps for building trust from the bottom up

00:52:55.020 after you lose someone's trust in you? I think we hit it. Tell the truth.

00:53:00.660 Yeah. And in all things. And so that might mean that the words you share are truthful and some of

00:53:07.560 that might mean need to be some acknowledgement of indiscretion. Like there might be, and I'm

00:53:16.320 assuming maybe he's talking about a wife or spouse or girlfriend or something. I would assume, would

00:53:21.760 you, would you assume that? Yeah. I thought the same thing. Yeah. And even if it doesn't, doesn't,

00:53:26.420 isn't it, the lessons are still the same, but let's just say it's a spouse. Okay. Well,

00:53:31.460 you're going to need to talk about some, some past performance issues. Like you have to tell

00:53:35.560 the truth. You have to come clean. You have to wipe that slate clean. And only then can you build

00:53:40.280 upon a foundation of trust. How do you build trust if it's built on a faulty, faulty foundation? Well,

00:53:45.260 you can't, it might be the facade of trust, but one little thing can make that thing crumble.

00:53:49.660 Right. So I think it's Ben Franklin who said that you could spend a lifetime building a reputation

00:53:55.960 and one poor deed to ruin it. Definitely. It happens. So, so you need to make those deposits

00:54:03.500 into the foundation that you're building by telling the truth. And that might mean that when your wife

00:54:08.920 comes and says, Hey, do you like this dress that maybe you do have to say, you know, there's a tactful

00:54:13.080 way to do it by the way, guys, but it might mean, you know, I don't like that one. I like the,

00:54:17.180 I like the black one better or that one isn't as flattering. Um, or, you know, that like it's

00:54:23.060 the friend who has, you know, a booger on his face. Like, why wouldn't you tell him he has a

00:54:27.100 booger on his face? Like, you know what I mean? Like somebody who, somebody who wouldn't say that

00:54:32.840 is, is not somebody to be trusted. But if I came to you and said, Sean, you got something on your

00:54:37.660 nose right there. Like, like you would appreciate that. I would think, cause you don't want to walk

00:54:42.420 around with that thing, hanging down from your nose all day with your clients and people you care

00:54:46.800 about. Right. Well, especially if you're the 10th guy that I've talked to while I had the booger on

00:54:53.180 my face and you're finally the guy you told me. Exactly. Exactly. So you have to tell the truth

00:54:58.820 in all ways. Also another element of telling the truth is doing things that you said you would do.

00:55:05.800 Right. So, uh, when I went to Minnesota, I told my wife, I had some things I wanted to get done

00:55:11.160 around the house. One of which was putting the blinds on the windows. Well, I didn't get to it.

00:55:17.200 And there was some reasons I didn't get to it, but ultimately I failed in my, in my purpose and

00:55:23.380 my objective. And what did I do? Well, I undermined a little bit of trust. Now it's, it's okay in this

00:55:29.220 scenario because I've built up enough in the bank to be able to take out some withdrawals occasionally.

00:55:34.540 But guess what I did? The first thing I did when I got back, she left, she had, she went to visit

00:55:38.420 family and my son and I, we put those blinds up. So when she comes back, she's going to see those

00:55:44.880 blinds are up and trust restored. Right. Again, that might seem like a small thing, but if you do

00:55:51.500 all of these small things in a positive direction, day in and day out and day in and day out over time,

00:55:57.260 you're, you have so much capital and like trust capital that, that, that if you mess up here or

00:56:04.100 there in small ways, it's fine. But also the inverse is true. If you say, Hey, hon, I'll take

00:56:10.120 the trash out and you don't, and I'll put the blinds up and you don't, and I'll pick up my son

00:56:13.720 at this time. And you don't, and Hey, we're going to be okay financially. And you make stupid financial

00:56:18.240 decisions where I'm going to quit drinking and you don't. And you do that every day, all day for a year

00:56:24.380 or two years or 10 years, it's just as bad. So you have to build up that trust bank account is the way

00:56:33.220 I like to look at it. And you do that by telling the truth forever. The only thing I would add to

00:56:40.700 that is that you also have to not get upset when they bring up those things where you failed it at

00:56:49.400 first, because it's going to be hard. It's to, to gain that trust back and they're going to bring

00:56:54.740 it up. And so you have to not get upset when they do and just prove yourself.

00:57:00.480 Well, and sometimes aren't we really, when we say, Hey, how do I build up trust?

00:57:05.860 I think a lot of times what we're saying is like, how can I get her to believe in me? And you want it

00:57:10.860 to happen sooner than maybe you deserve for it to happen. Yeah. Or alternatively, what can I do to

00:57:17.540 manipulate her into trusting me, which of course is the antithesis of trust. If you're trying to

00:57:23.840 coerce and strong arm and blackmail and manipulate, that's not a great way to build trust either. So

00:57:30.020 it's gotta happen. You can't control her or him, whoever you're dealing with. You can't control

00:57:36.460 that. All you can do is control yourself. And no, here's another reason or another consideration.

00:57:42.220 You don't tell the truth. So people trust you. Like that's not the motive for telling the truth.

00:57:50.280 Now people will trust you as a result of you telling the truth, but you tell the truth because

00:57:56.060 it's the right thing to do. And if you're doing it as some sort of strategy to win a perceived game,

00:58:04.300 when, when it doesn't happen the way that you want it to happen, you're going to abandon the strategy.

00:58:10.700 Right. So, okay. Well, maybe if I tell the truth to my wife, uh, over the next, you know, 30 to 60

00:58:16.680 days, then she'll believe and trust me. And then 30, 60 days later, she still doesn't trust you.

00:58:20.920 Well, I guess that didn't work. So you go back to your ways and then you undermine your trust.

00:58:26.240 You have to, you have to tell the truth for the right reason. And the right reason is

00:58:30.460 simply it's the right thing to do period bottom line. Oh, and also good things will benefit or come

00:58:38.200 from you telling the truth, but that's a by-product, not the motive. Yeah. All right. Last one.

00:58:44.400 Okay. Tyson Junkers. I've heard several financial advisors recommend investing in assets because of

00:58:50.580 where inflation is headed. What are your thoughts on that? And if you agree with it, where would you

00:58:56.160 start real estate, gold and silver, or the more obvious option of putting it all in Dogecoin?

00:59:01.340 Oh yeah. Let it ride. Um, yeah, it's probably not for a lot of people. Yeah. Uh, look again, I'm

00:59:12.440 you're, you're a financial advisor. I am no longer a financial advisor. So let me just tell you what I

00:59:17.140 would do and what I currently do, but take it with a grain of salt in your own specific scenario is I

00:59:22.780 have, I have investments everywhere. Like I own real estate. Um, in fact, we're considering buying

00:59:29.400 some more real estate right now. I own plenty of cryptocurrency. I have money in cash. I have

00:59:36.280 money in the stock market. We've got real estate. I put a lot of, a lot of money into this business.

00:59:41.560 I invest in myself, uh, during COVID. I actually had the concern like right when COVID kicked off,

00:59:48.140 I had the concern that getting to our money in banks would be a difficult thing to do.

00:59:52.460 So I pulled a bunch of money out of the bank. So I have money. I have physical gold and silver. Like

00:59:59.760 I have everything. So I know that's not real specific, but you build it, right? And so you

01:00:07.140 build it on tiers. So I look at, I look at four, four factors when it comes to where, where I put my

01:00:12.700 money and I don't want to delve too deep into this, but maybe, maybe on another podcast, but four

01:00:16.840 factors. So you have, uh, risk, you have, uh, liquidity, you have rate of return and you have

01:00:28.100 taxation. Like those are the four factors that I look at. And when I'm building or teaching somebody

01:00:33.820 to build wealth, the most important factor to build on is to look at risk and liquidity. Like those are

01:00:42.100 the most important factors. So if I have something that's highly liquid, it's probably not going to be as

01:00:46.600 favorable in the taxation standpoint, but when I'm building wealth, that's where I want to start.

01:00:52.160 Those are the most intuitive, two most important factors, safety and liquidity. Now, once you've

01:00:57.420 established a strong base now, okay, maybe I don't need it to be as liquid or I don't need it to be as

01:01:02.520 safe. Cause I've got that, that stuff stored over here. And so I can look at something with higher

01:01:06.900 potential rates of return or something that's more tax favorable, but I'll lose some of these other

01:01:10.940 factors. And so what I want is I want non-correlated assets, right? So putting money in a bank account

01:01:19.320 and then putting money literally under your mattress, that's, that's a correlated asset.

01:01:24.240 Like they're both going to lose net over time due to inflation. And it's the same, right? But if I have

01:01:31.460 money in the stock market, that's probably going to be non-correlated to money that I have in real

01:01:37.660 estate, let's say. And so as one performs well, the other may lag behind and vice versa. So that's a

01:01:42.800 little bit about what I'm looking for when it comes to how I invest my own money.

01:01:46.940 Yeah. I get this question all the time as a financial advisor, and I always deflect it

01:01:51.180 because unless I can sit down and look at your situation, I'm not going to tell you anything.

01:01:55.600 Right. And, and, but I will say that I've made millions in real estate. I've made millions in the

01:02:02.060 stock market. I've made millions in other investments, even in some insurance contracts, but

01:02:06.340 it's because I've invested in those things. And so, you know, and I haven't made money in crypto or,

01:02:13.880 but because I haven't invested enough yet, if that makes sense. And so, you know, we talked about

01:02:19.620 consistency and other things throughout this podcast. That's really what it comes down to.

01:02:25.020 What gets most guys or most people in general is that they're looking for the perfect investment,

01:02:31.000 the perfect timing. And that's what Tyson's talking about right here is the timing of it all,

01:02:35.400 right. Because of inflation rates, because of, you know, interest rates being so low,

01:02:42.620 you know, at a record low and even into the negatives and, and kind of what's on the horizon

01:02:48.220 and people's thoughts in that what's happening politically. And so everybody's trying to time

01:02:53.640 that, but you know what, no matter the timing, it's going to change a couple of years from now,

01:02:59.900 a couple of years after that's going to change again. And so the more spread out the better you

01:03:05.340 are. But the bottom line is you got to invest. So many people don't pull the trigger because

01:03:09.860 they're waiting for everything to be perfect. Right. And so you just have to, the hardest part

01:03:14.200 for everybody is starting. And once you start, then you learn, you figure out what you like,

01:03:19.620 what you don't like. You know, I mentioned real estate. I used to have rental properties and I don't

01:03:24.900 anymore because I figured out and my wife and I both figured out, we don't want to be landlords.

01:03:29.520 It's just something we're not interested in. We can focus on other things, growing other businesses,

01:03:35.700 growing things that are more profitable to us and make more sense. And they feel better to us

01:03:41.500 than just being landlords. And so everybody's different, but until you start something,

01:03:47.700 you're not going to learn and know what you're the most interested in. And then the last thing I

01:03:54.300 would say, I actually got from Robert Kiyosaki, who wrote Think and Grow Rich. And my favorite book

01:04:00.500 is Cashflow Quadrant. He said, no matter what you invest in, he's a firm believer that you learn what

01:04:06.300 you're investing in. You know, you understand it, you learn about it and you know how to properly use it.

01:04:12.040 Yeah. I mean, well, you know, there's an interesting thing about the timing as well.

01:04:17.320 You really do have to be careful on timing your investments. I think that's a, that's a

01:04:22.500 risk for disaster. Attempting to, that's probably a better way to say it. Yeah. Because what happens

01:04:27.340 when you're, you attempt to time it, you're always behind the curve because what are you doing? What

01:04:32.060 are you basing your timing off of? Things that have already happened. So you're already behind the

01:04:36.640 eight ball because it's already happened. You know, a lot of people do this with, with stock market,

01:04:40.760 for example, is they try to predict what the market will do. And they're like, well,

01:04:43.680 this is a great buy right now. It's like, no, the price that that, that particular stock is at right

01:04:48.560 now has all the information you have factored into the equation minus any sort of insider information

01:04:54.900 that, that you have, that would be illegal. Right. But everything else is already factored into the

01:04:59.980 price you're behind already. So don't worry about timing it. What I would suggest is you look for

01:05:05.560 vulnerabilities in your planning. So, so let me explain it this way. Uh, at my son's football

01:05:11.040 game yesterday, uh, again, big guys, and we had, we have a small line relative to the other team's

01:05:16.520 line. Well, what they started doing the other team is they stacked their three biggest guys

01:05:21.100 right in the middle of their defensive line and blitzed every play. And they crushed, they just broke

01:05:27.800 up every play. Well, that's a vulnerability. So we need to make some adjustments. And the coaches

01:05:34.040 made some adjustments, maybe missed a few and, and knowing that they're doing that and knowing

01:05:40.440 that's a flaw in our vulnerability. Okay. Then we have to do something to shore up that line.

01:05:44.700 And that might mean that you don't necessarily have the best guy at guard or center, but you have

01:05:50.180 mass there. We got to get some mass right in the center to keep them from breaking through that line.

01:05:53.780 And so you make that adjustment because it's a vulnerability and you're constantly looking for

01:05:58.560 those vulnerabilities. If you're, if you're exposed to all sorts of risk, because you're heavily

01:06:03.280 invested in the stock market or, or a real estate market. Okay. Well, what adjustment needs to be

01:06:09.220 made right here? Same thing I did with the pulling cash out of the account. Okay. That's a, that's,

01:06:14.600 I don't have any money at hand. Like I don't have any cash on hand. Vulnerability, get that figured

01:06:19.840 out, adjust it, figure it out, address it and move on. So no time, just look for those vulnerabilities.

01:06:26.020 And I'll end with this thought because I talked about listing our house. And so I was talking

01:06:29.980 to a friend last night at church about us doing that. And he's like, wow, you know, well, great

01:06:36.480 timing, great timing for selling right now, because it's obviously super high. And, and I just laughed,

01:06:43.040 I agreed with them, but inside I thought, well, it doesn't matter. You know, I'm not using it as an

01:06:47.520 investment. And yeah, maybe it is good timing. I don't know, you know, but I still have to buy a

01:06:53.780 place somewhere else. Right. So it's all relative. And so it's, it's not for, for the long game.

01:07:01.800 It's not, I'm not trying, I'm not selling my house right now because good timing. I'm selling my house

01:07:06.180 because we no longer want to live in the area we're in, you know? And, and so it's, it's and I

01:07:12.880 don't even know where we're moving to yet, you know, but it's, it's feels right for our family.

01:07:18.340 Um, it feels in line with our values. And so we're doing it and we're going to figure it out

01:07:23.860 from there, but I'm not trying to time it. Yeah. Your timing is based on something

01:07:28.460 different than market forces. Yes. Right. Yeah. Well, good. Well, great questions. Did we miss

01:07:34.800 any, or did we hit them all? Are there still a few left over? There's a couple of, yeah.

01:07:38.020 All right. We'll get to those next week, guys. We want to make sure we cover, we had some good

01:07:41.120 questions today. We always do when we ask guys in iron council and even the quality of questions that

01:07:45.700 have gone up in the Facebook group and other places has, has improved as well. So appreciate

01:07:49.640 you guys asking the thoughtful, thought-provoking questions. Um, yeah, biggest thing based on our

01:07:55.020 conversation today is just share, share the episode, share the link, let guys know what we're doing,

01:07:59.580 leave a rating review. And then if you're wanting to really make 2022 the best year that it can be,

01:08:05.380 that starts right now. I mean, we're, what are we like 90 days away? Not even that we really have

01:08:11.880 November and December. So we're like 60 days away at this point. So yeah, if you want to, uh, if you

01:08:17.900 want to make 2022 a great year, start, it starts right now. And you can do that in the iron council

01:08:22.720 at order of man.com slash iron council. All right, Sean, I appreciate you, man. Uh, we're going to

01:08:29.100 just gradually phase Kip out here. So you've been doing a great job. And so we'll see if he's still

01:08:33.340 listening to the end. So Kip, we're going to gradually phase you out. And, uh, Sean's going to

01:08:37.200 become your new replacement. I'm not looking to do that. Kip always does a great job. We love

01:08:45.480 having Kip. He's, uh, he's hunting in fact, this week as well. So I'm wishing him success on the

01:08:50.500 hunt. All right, guys, we'll be back later this week until then go out there, take action and

01:08:55.340 become a man. You are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're

01:09:00.120 ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join

01:09:04.780 the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - October 27, 2021

Building Fortitude in Your Son, Reclaiming Masculinity, and the Power of Telling the Truth Relentlessly ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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