Order of Man - CAM HANES ｜ Train Hard, Hunt Easy

00:00:00.060 Gentlemen, life is suffering. At least it's full of suffering. Unfortunately, too many men avoid voluntary suffering and instead choose the path of least resistance.

00:00:09.700 But that path leads to a life of complacency and mediocrity. My guest today is a man who runs literally towards suffering and hardship, not to make his life harder than it needs to be, but to prepare himself for what will inevitably come.

00:00:22.940 His name is Cam Haynes. He's a bow hunter first, an ultra endurance athlete, and an incredibly motivating human being.

00:00:31.820 Today, we talk about the purpose of suffering, making the decision to make yourself into something more, why working harder than others will always produce results, finding mentorship and friendship, dealing with negativity from others.

00:00:45.380 We talk about his new book, Endure, and ultimately why every man ought to embrace the mantra, train hard, hunt easy.

00:00:52.280 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:17.020 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler. I'm the host and the founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement. Thank you for being here. I've got a very special one today. I had the opportunity last week to go down to Austin and meet with none other than Cam Haynes. I've been wanting to get him on the podcast for a very, very long time. Finally, we're able to make it happen in Austin. And I think you guys are going to enjoy this one.

00:01:41.380 I'm going to introduce Cam in just a minute before I do. Just want to mention, I got a message from some advertisers the other day about advertising on the podcast. And these would be placed ads. And I've really thought about that. They talked to me about how much income I could potentially be making by placing these ads. And I just, I don't want to do that.

00:02:01.500 I want to share things that are important to me. I want to talk about companies that I personally use. I don't want to just blow up the podcast with ads, but in order to do that, I do ask for your support because we put this podcast out for free. And a lot of you guys are reaping the benefit, which is great. That's what I want for you. But in return, I'd ask that you support what we're doing. And there's a lot of different ways to do that. Number one is you could just take a screenshot and share what we're doing. Very easy way. Obviously that's free to do and just share it with one other person or two other people that you think would benefit from this conversation.

00:02:31.500 It could be going to our store and picking up a shirt or hat and letting people know who and what you support joining our iron council, our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council, or maybe even coming to one of our events. But the point that I'm making here is that if you believe in what we're doing at a minimum, share it, leave a rating and review, look at picking up a shirt or a hat. Look at joining us at one of our events, join our iron council. Great ways to not only support what we're doing, but get value for yourself in

00:03:01.440 return. And that's what I want is to make sure that anything that you do for and with us, that you're going to get two, three, four, 500% return on that investment in yourself. So please check that out. But that's all I have by way of announcements today. I do want to get right into it. I've got Cameron Haynes on a lot of you guys follow him, but if you don't, you likely will after this podcast, he describes himself as a bow hunter first. In fact, he's one of the most successful bow hunters in the world.

00:03:30.380 He's built his life around being extremely, extremely successful in hunting animals all over the world. In addition to that, Cam is an ultra endurance athlete who has completed the Moab 240 as well as other countless other endurance, ultra endurance events. The guy literally runs a marathon just about every day before he even goes into work. And he still does have a nine to five job. We talk about that.

00:03:52.020 And to top it all off, Cam now has the number one book on all of Amazon with the release of his latest book, Endure. A lot of you guys have picked up a copy and read it. So that's good. If you haven't, you'll want to. I've been working, like I said, to get him on the podcast for years and the wait was worth it. So guys, enjoy my conversation with Cam.

00:04:11.160 I just told one time I told Courtney DeWalter, I said, cause I've listened to a lot of her podcasts. And I said, if somebody asks the same question, you've been, you've already been asked and answered, tell them you're not answering it. And they have to ask another one. I said, these guys need to do a better job at podcasting. You do a good job at running. They need to do a good job at podcasting. So I told Nick that story. And I said, so that's what I'm expecting of you.

00:04:32.980 That's funny. I was telling Todd is I try, we were talking about on the way over here. I try not to be over prepared. Yeah. Cause I've done that before where I psyched myself out and like, or I study every little thing, but then it just takes away from your curiosity. Yeah. Like that's the best way to do a podcast and just be curious about other people and ask questions you're curious about. I don't know. I, I listened to a lot of podcasts and so you're going to, you're going to know cause you're starting a podcast and I might be terrible. Maybe at first you might be, you might be. So as the, how's everything been with

00:05:02.980 the amount of podcasting since we're talking about that, that you've done over the past, I don't know, week, two weeks. Nauseating. What you've told me this before, but what is it about podcasting that you don't like? I like, I like listening to podcasts. I like listening to interesting people, but when I'm supposed to be the interesting person, it's not good. I like, like if I'm hosting it, I can talk to amazing people and I want to find out about them. Sure. But like when the tables are turned, it's like, okay,

00:05:32.320 that's me. That's me. No. But do you, but, but why, do you feel like you don't have anything interesting to share or? I feel like everybody kind of knows the story. I mean, I've been doing this for so long. I've been writing for so long. I've had multiple books. So I feel like I've, I don't know, in my head, I feel like, ah, people already know. They know the journey. I can see that. But I think what people really enjoy about podcasting is it's almost like they're sitting in this room here with us. Yeah. If it's done right. Yeah.

00:06:02.020 Yeah. If that's true. And that's not something that everybody has the opportunity to do, like to sit down with you or to sit down with Rogan or any of his guests. And so for them to be able to enter that world instead of just reading a book or, you know, to actually be part of the conversation is important for people.

00:06:17.600 Yeah. I mean, it's why podcasting is so powerful right now because of that. Yeah. You know, it's a new medium where like where I grew up in a small, little small town, you know, 24 in my graduating class, who you knew and who you talked to, that was it. That was, that was your only interaction.

00:06:35.380 And so podcasting is a way for people like I was to maybe listen to people with a different mindset, maybe with a winning mindset, maybe that could, you know, enhance your life through this medium that wasn't available before.

00:06:47.520 So in that way, it's amazing. Yeah. Podcasting is why it's exploding. So, yeah, it's not, not so much people in the big city. I feel like they have options to be influenced by other things, but I really, I'm happy for the people in the outskirts like I was.

00:07:03.380 But I think even in the big city, I think people, a big city, I think people are, I really think people are lonely. Like, I think that's part of the reason people listen to podcasts too, is because even there's a, there's so many people, you had 24 in your graduating class.

00:07:16.040 Yeah. You have me beat. I had 42, still small, right? Yeah. But I think even with larger groups of people, people are still lonely and so disconnected from everybody else.

00:07:27.080 Yeah. And, you know, the phones haven't helped that either because it's allowed you just to slink away. But, yeah, I mean, it's always balance. You know, people ask me just about making a positive change.

00:07:40.080 It's one of the questions on the podcast. And to me, it's like, I look outside right now and I can't help but want to be outside. I mean, so that's like, that's where I feel most alive is when that sun on my face, the rainfall on my head or, or whatever, in the mountains, in the elements.

00:07:56.500 And like you say, you know, you might be alone, but to me, time alone like that is different than time alone in your house.

00:08:03.620 Yeah. It's not lonely or you're not. Right. Right. Yeah. I can hear that. I get that.

00:08:07.240 I think time alone, learning to navigate or survive on your own, like in the wilderness is a positive. And I think it's, it's, it's something that, uh, that's, that's where I've done most of my growth actually.

00:08:20.780 Well, I think most people see, and this is how I used to look at it is they look at somebody like you or other high performers in some sort of athletic endeavor, like Goggins, for example, and say, okay, well, that's a personal transformation. And it certainly is. But, but based on what I've heard you talk about and what you talk about in the book is that there's this mental game that it completely unlocks access to when you start doing these things.

00:08:43.540 Yeah. Uh, Goggins has made famous a saying on the other side of suffering is greatness. And that's kind of, I mean, that's a, a short and sweet version. And that's true because in that, where that suffering line, it's different, even for the, for the same person that it changes, you know, the, you become more capable and then you need to test yourself in different ways to get to that suffering.

00:09:07.540 What was once hard is now easy because you're trained up. But if you're always chasing suffering and another, another line people say all the time is make friends with pain and you'll never be alone. So that's kind of our goal. Courtney, she's got her own, the pain cave, you know, it's like, that's where most people, they start to feel discomfort or pain and then they pull back and then they're done. But when you go into it, that's kind of what we're chasing.

00:09:33.900 Do you feel like, so it's not so much some destination, right? Cause based on what I hear you talking about, and I've known you for a long time, we've been friends for years is that it's not some point I'm trying to arrive at. It's just like, I guess what I'm asking is, do you feel like that constant chasing ever gets you to some point where you'll ever be satisfied?

00:09:58.180 No, no, no, no. It's a, there's never, anytime I accomplish anything, it's like, I very seldom think about accomplishments. I mean, it's always, what I think about is when I fail, how, why did I fail? How can I get better? If I accomplish something, it's like, that's just a, that's just a minor detour. Now it's like onto the next, but yeah.

00:10:19.960 Yeah. So what, so what then drives you? Cause I know a lot of people are driven by, Hey, I want to run a marathon and I did it. And then they feel good about that. And that's what drove them to the thing. But in order to get to the next thing, it would have to be something else.

00:10:32.640 So what is it that drives you if it's not some final destination or a point you're trying to reach?

00:10:39.320 My limit, finding my limit. What, where's, when am I done? What is my limit? Where's my, what am I capable of? So at first I thought when I did the Moab 240, first it was like a marathon.

00:10:54.400 Then it was like, well, I need to try to do a 50 miler, then a hundred miler. And I did all those. Then it was a 200 miler. Okay. Did that. And then it's like, well, maybe, maybe my limit is 240 miles.

00:11:07.760 And then I, I remember feeling, you know, it was, it was very hard, 70 some hours of constant grinding. Yeah. And, uh, when I, when I look at the footage or the photos of me finishing look pretty good.

00:11:22.840 I'm like, well, that's not it. So I'm still, still searching for that.

00:11:28.040 What's your, uh, like with that Moab 240. Have you done that? You've done it a couple of times, haven't you?

00:11:31.620 Once. Oh, you did it once. Yeah. What's the, like, what is the recovery process from, I know in your mind, you're like, okay, you're probably ready to go almost immediately, but what, or maybe not.

00:11:41.660 No, no, not that one. That one takes a little bit.

00:11:43.420 So tell me about like the recovery process of, okay, mentally I'm back in the game. Physically I'm getting back after it. What, what does that time look like?

00:11:51.920 Um, I mean, accomplishment like that, you do kind of maybe savor a little bit more and then you have to, cause your body needs that time to recover, but, um, it's not long.

00:12:01.540 It seems like you're looking for the next challenge because you've, you've done this one and it's, you can't, nobody can rest on their laurels.

00:12:09.160 Who's going to keep achieving these goals and keep pushing. So it's, it's onto the next.

00:12:14.840 And then it's like, you know, could I run 500 miles? Could I do a 500 mile foot race? So it's like, you start thinking about what's, you know, where's that limit?

00:12:24.620 What was a breaking point?

00:12:25.660 So there, but like, so what is, what's the longest race? I mean, you can go forever indefinitely, but like, are there races that are 500 or a thousand?

00:12:33.840 Um, um, the longest, I think there's a 300 mile race, but Courtney was trying to do, I went and ran with her. She was trying to break the record on the Colorado trail, which was right under 500 miles.

00:12:48.080 The record was eight days. She was trying to do seven days. So I went and I ran with her for 26 hours and she found her breaking point on that day.

00:12:57.040 She made it, uh, well, not that day is four days, but she made it 309 miles, but that, you know, the breaking point changes depending on circumstances that she had some health issues.

00:13:08.200 And so had to pull out at 309 miles, but, uh, so 500, is that it? I don't know.

00:13:17.600 I guess you'll maybe find out at some point.

00:13:19.780 I want to, that's the goal.

00:13:21.920 So to go back to what you're talking about with the podcasting, and I know it's like, ah, it's not my favorite thing to do.

00:13:27.040 Um, and you'd rather be outside. And obviously I see that cause that's the way you live your life.

00:13:31.040 I'm like, why, why do this? Cause you don't have to do this, right?

00:13:34.560 I mean, you can be outside, you can be hunting and you can be running, you can be preparing, lifting, doing all your things that you do.

00:13:40.760 So why carve out time to do something that isn't particularly enjoyable for you?

00:13:46.460 My goal right now is I'm not money driven, but when I set a goal, I want to see it through.

00:13:53.580 So the goal is to write a book that gives hope to, um, average losers like I was, and to show that somebody can go from coming from nothing.

00:14:05.700 And if this works like it's supposed to, you make the New York times bestseller list.

00:14:09.180 And it's like to give hope to people like I was. So I'm doing it not, not for me, but to achieve a goal, to show people what dreaming big can get you with consistent hard work.

00:14:19.660 So I feel like I'm not doing it so much for myself, but I'm doing it, um, not to make money, to make, yeah, a list would be great, but to also be the example, you know, because I have the papers from English comp where a D and an F and, you know, this was late 50% off or 50, whatever.

00:14:40.380 I got 50% of my score because I didn't get it in on time. Cause I was just, you know, wasn't committed to it. So can you, just because you're a failure and in young life doesn't mean that's your destiny.

00:14:53.380 Your destiny is what you make it. So I feel like I'm fulfilling a destiny right now. And I want to show people what's, what's possible.

00:15:01.120 I think there's a lot of people who feel, they feel trapped maybe, or they've been so beat up and, you know, bagged on for their entire lives that having somebody who actually has done something, here's a funny thing I get a lot is like, why can't you just have a regular guy on the podcast?

00:15:18.500 And I'm like, all the guys I have on a regular guy, like yourself included. Now you've done extraordinary things, but you're a regular guy who's overcome. It isn't like you came out of the womb as some, you know, ultra endurance athlete, you know, killer, ultimate predator.

00:15:33.980 No, I was a regular guy. And then these are the things I did to get myself out of that situation.

00:15:38.900 I'm as regular as they, as it comes. I mean, every day at work where I've worked, I've my nine to five, I still have, and I've worked my way up from the bottom and now I'm superintendent there.

00:15:51.220 But every day I question why I'm in that position. If I'm doing a good job, if I'm leading the crews, you know, it's construction crews, the engineering guys, whether I'm being a good leader.

00:16:02.060 And, and I question, God, am I, do I deserve this opportunity? And so it's like, keeps me hungry and fighting, but I have doubts myself.

00:16:11.940 It's not like I go through every day and it's just like the supreme confidence and saying I can, you know, overcome anything every day.

00:16:19.360 I know I got to put in work because I have these doubts in the back of my head. And if I don't put in work and, and, and do what I've, what my goal is, which is to improve every day, then I give those doubts life.

00:16:33.960 And if I want to keep them down, I just got to keep working. So, yeah, I know how an average guy feels because that's me.

00:16:39.360 What, what are some of the doubts that even now come into your mind? Because I think what a lot of guys will do that listen to the podcast is they might dismiss it.

00:16:46.720 And I know you get this all the time. Must be nice. Oh, it would be easy if this. And if I was sponsored and if I was athletic and all the other excuses.

00:16:55.200 But I think it is important that we talk about the things that we actually still struggle with because people will find some commonality and think, oh, well, if Cam deals with that, then that's what I deal with.

00:17:04.980 And he's doing this. So I can certainly do that too then.

00:17:07.720 Yeah. I mean, I, I just doubt, I mean, even this, okay. So right now this book is number one on Amazon, right?

00:17:15.520 And I have, I have doubts that's going to stay there. I mean, I want it to, but I, you know, if it's like it just a splash in the pan and then it's gone and it doesn't make the impact like I, like I dream it will and, and help people out.

00:17:30.360 Then it's like, what did that number one for on day three or day two mean? Didn't mean anything.

00:17:36.400 So that's why I'm doing this. I'm, I'm working. I'm just trying to every day, this isn't my nine to five.

00:17:43.220 I'm not punching on a time clock, but it's like making a sacrifice. And I just think that, I don't know what, with all the doubts I have as a, I don't know.

00:17:53.680 I'm, you know, I feel pressure because I know I got people watching me. I have followers that don't know me, but feel like they know me.

00:18:00.880 I'm trying to set a good example and, and that's pressure every day because I'm, I'm flawed like anybody, you know?

00:18:08.020 So I have, there's times where I'm like maybe my belief in myself might waver, but I just got to push through because there's eyes on me.

00:18:16.560 Um, I have my kids that I've set this example for that. I've expected them to be, give their best every day.

00:18:23.280 So how could I look at myself if I'm not giving my best? So it's just that it's a normal struggles of, I think every person, whether they want to vocalize it or not.

00:18:32.020 Is it, is it weird to have, I think you have what a million, three or a million, two people on followers on Instagram.

00:18:39.340 Is it, is it weird to have like those doubts that you probably entertain every day to some degree, but then know how many people are inspired and think that what you're doing is so extraordinary that they want to be inspired that way by it?

00:18:53.840 Uh, yeah. I mean, I don't think I'm deserving of it. Uh, but you know, I, I can't dismiss that. I know I'm in that position and I know I'm in the position for a reason.

00:19:05.880 As I say, it must be, I feel like it's destiny. It's like what I'm supposed to do. Um, and so if I'm, that's what I'm called to do, I'm going to do my best.

00:19:14.820 What? So that's an interesting thought. Like when you say destiny called to is like, flesh that out a little bit more for me.

00:19:23.500 Do you like, is that preordained? Like, Hey, this is what I'm here to do. This is what I was meant to do.

00:19:29.420 Or is it that I developed this and this is just the way it is because this is what the life that I've created over my life.

00:19:35.880 Yeah. I mean, I've struggled with why I'm here. Um, here on this earth. Yep. Well, what my role is. Um, and I had to question it when Roy fell in 2015, I, I was mad.

00:19:51.480 Cause we hadn't done all our goals. He was 49. And, and what they tell you is that, well, that was his time.

00:20:01.680 His, his work on here on earth was done. He had done it. So he was called home. I had a hard time with that, but it's, it's allowed me to maybe look at myself and say, well, if Roy had done his work.

00:20:17.960 And it was over and he was called home, I must be still doing my work. I'm not done. So I'm just, I'm just putting in, I'm punching time clock. I'm doing what I think I'm supposed to do until it's time for me to go home.

00:20:33.340 You, uh, you really had a special relationship clearly with, with Roy. You guys were, but you guys were, you were at the same school, different, different grades or something.

00:20:44.640 He's a year older, a year older. And then you guys really didn't start hunting together until after high school. It sounds like.

00:20:50.600 Right. Yeah. Tell me about the relationship with him. Uh, he was, yeah. I mean, we played sports together. Uh, he was good at football, really good at baseball. Uh, he was, uh, he was his girlfriend, Jill was in my class and that's who we married. And he was married to his whole life. They had three kids. And, uh, so I, you know, small town, small school, everybody knew everybody.

00:21:16.960 Of course. So I was, uh, I loved hunting. He was a good hunter. He loved hunting, but he was with his family all the time. He's, I think a bunch of sisters. I can't remember how many, four or five sisters. And he was only son, but him, his dad hunted together all the time.

00:21:33.060 I was just kind of out on my own, own hunting with my friends. And, uh, so we didn't really connect, but then he told me one time I should start bow hunting and cause he had started bow hunting the year before.

00:21:46.960 And I was, I think 19 at that time. So I got a bow and, uh, started bow hunting when I turned 20. And from then on we connected because sometimes if you're going a long way to hunt, like we started to do, you needed somebody to split gas money and food money and have a truck that can make it that far.

00:22:06.860 And, and we didn't, you know, but he was very handy because he, he had worked with his dad's construction company, uh, Roth construction for many years. So he could fix almost anything. And that's kind of what, that's what makes you good in the back country of Alaska.

00:22:20.760 Is there's so many problems to overcome. Some of it is motor related because it's all access driven and, uh, you're doing logistics. And if you can't get here by this time, you can't get picked up for this time.

00:22:31.240 So sometimes you'd have to fix things on the fly. He was very handy in that regard. But, um, so he's a good partner to have with that. Cause a lot of times in the back country or on the way to trips, or we had llamas, we'd pack, have llamas haul our gear in.

00:22:46.660 And, uh, it took problem solving a lot. So he was good. So we, we were willing participants and going on these big trips together. And we quickly realized that we would do whatever it took to succeed.

00:23:00.140 It didn't matter that what we had to overcome, we would do it. And from there, um, we went to the wilderness one time on one hunt, he moved to Alaska and that was about in 1993 or four, I think.

00:23:13.760 And he moved up there. And then that was the beginning of me going up there every year until he died, sometimes multiple times. So we had probably 30, just extreme adventure, um, trips and hunts where very strong bump. You know, when you go through something very hard with somebody else, you create a bond.

00:23:35.960 Yeah.

00:23:36.260 We had that bond that was more like a brotherhood after all that time. And so, yeah, that was, that was our journey in a nutshell.

00:23:42.660 Yeah. I was, uh, I heard a statistic and I can't, I can't exactly remember what it was. So I'm just paraphrasing a bit, maybe taking some liberty with it. But they asked, you know, a bunch of men, if they could list who their best friend was, and very few of them could actually list who their friend was.

00:24:00.020 Uh, they asked who, who would you call if you were in a pinch that, you know, they, they would pick up and help you out. And very few men could actually list that.

00:24:08.720 Yeah.

00:24:08.920 And it seems like you really had that with him. And it seems like you have that with Rogan and some of these other guys as well. Um, and, and I think that's something that's like critically missing in men's lives. And I think it's what you said is that there's no hardship, nobody's dealing with anything difficult. And so there's nothing to bond people together. Cause we're all just on our own little comfortable, isolated islands, living our lives, watching Netflix and nothing's hard anymore. So you don't have to band with other people.

00:24:35.920 Yeah. Um, I, I mentioned this to Pete the other day, I mentioned on a podcast, but the series, the men who built America. Yeah. I heard you talk about. Yeah. And Pete said that he, that resonated with him so much because that was like, he thought about that so much as he's building origin and helping, uh, with his vision. And, and those guys, I watched those guys and you're right right now, you know, if you're too hot, um, you turn on the AC or too cold to turn on the heater. Yeah. You barely,

00:25:04.780 you are hardly ever uncomfortable. So the men that built America, they had real struggle to overcome. And that's what made the country great is that, that the railroad system, electricity, eventually, uh, uh, oil, all of this was men with a vision, overcoming hardship and challenge and huge money issues to, to, I don't know, uh, just chase this vision they had. Yeah. And that's in our country's reaping

00:25:09.780 the rewards of that. Yeah. And that's what, uh, they had real struggle to overcome. And that's what made the country great is that, that the railroad system, electricity eventually, uh, uh, oil, all this was men with the vision, overcoming hardship and challenge and huge money issues to, to, I don't know, uh, just chase this vision.

00:25:15.780 electricity eventually, oil, all this was men with a vision, overcoming hardship and challenge

00:25:24.200 and huge money issues to, I don't know, just chase this vision they had. And our country is

00:25:34.300 reaping the rewards of that. So as men today, what are we doing? What's our vision? What's this

00:25:41.000 thing with our purpose? What are we fulfilling? And yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't know what

00:25:48.540 the answer is, but I just know hardship creates bonds. Hardship created bonds with me and Roy.

00:25:55.440 I do some of these endurance races with people, train with Goggins, do all the stuff,

00:26:00.740 hunting with Rogan, Kip, folks, who's obviously involved with Origin Hunt also. And those guys

00:26:07.500 become like brothers because of what we've went through and what we've overcome and we can rely

00:26:12.560 on each other. Yeah. I remember when I moved to Maine, I was probably there for like six months,

00:26:18.120 maybe a little less. And I went to the convenience store down the road and one of the gals there, 0.76

00:26:23.400 her name's Jill. She's like, you know what people are calling you, right? And I was like, no, I don't

00:26:28.800 know what they're calling me. She's like, you guys are the weird workout people. Oh yeah. And I was

00:26:33.000 like, what? Why? She's like, you're always out there like flipping tires and hitting the tire

00:26:38.380 with a sledgehammer and carrying heavy things around. And that's weird. I'm like, why is that

00:26:42.940 weird? She's like, well, because in Maine, we actually have to work. Like we don't have to make

00:26:48.060 workout stuff up. She's like, we're chopping wood or we're clearing trees. And I'm like, yeah,

00:26:54.000 that's kind of actually, that is weird that we have to fabricate exercise because our lives just

00:27:01.520 don't demand it anymore. Isn't that a, that's a strange thing to me. Yeah. We, I mean, I've said

00:27:06.500 many times we have it too good in this country. You know, I know there's people struggling and I'm

00:27:10.220 not trying to lump everybody in and make it seem like, you know, I'm looking down on people, but I

00:27:15.420 think as a whole, we're very comfortable. And, uh, that, that, that breeds complacency. Yeah. So

00:27:22.420 that's what I, that's what I fight. And that's the message that I send is don't be complacent.

00:27:27.100 You got to earn your keep every day. When you talk about, uh, finding your purpose,

00:27:32.020 that's the word you used. Um, you know, I think from the outside looking in, most people would say,

00:27:36.360 okay, well, Cam's found his purpose. We all, like you said, we know your story. Obviously hunting is

00:27:41.260 a huge component of your life. Um, do you think it's just one thing that people have to find and

00:27:49.940 discover and unpack? Or do you think it could be purpose in anything? Like how do you start to unpack

00:27:55.460 what your purpose or destiny is another word you used would be? Um, I'm, I'm probably not the guy

00:28:03.980 to ask. I mean, I'm, I'm not big on advice. I mean, what I've done, I'd share my story. I share the

00:28:10.620 struggles I had, um, with alcohol and trying to be a young father and trying to make good decisions and

00:28:17.140 make good career decisions. And, um, I, I share that. I don't have the answers. Uh, I have the lessons I

00:28:24.960 learned and people might be able to learn from that. I have the fact that I believe in people

00:28:30.880 and believe in untapped potential. And I see people with potential and I want them to achieve it.

00:28:35.700 But if somebody asks me how to find success, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, if I don't,

00:28:43.840 the only answer I've ever had to anything is work hard. And so when I was working in a warehouse,

00:28:49.920 nobody's, I wasn't hired because I was smart. I wasn't hired because I knew somebody I was hired

00:28:55.980 because I would work and I would work more than anybody there and work 16 hours a day. That's all

00:29:00.820 I had. Here's what I have to offer. Hard work. I can't offer anything else but that. So that's been

00:29:05.740 the, that's been, that's carried me through is I just got to put time in, put effort in and over 30

00:29:12.940 years. Here we are. What? So I I'm, I'm very curious about this because I've heard you talk

00:29:19.120 about a lot. You talk about it in the book and, and you, and I appreciate it on one hand. I completely

00:29:23.980 appreciate it and respect that you're like, Hey, I don't give advice. Like I just share what works

00:29:27.640 for me. And on the other hand, like, yeah, but you have so much valuable stuff that people could

00:29:32.400 learn from. So I'm, what is, what is your aversion to giving advice to other people as opposed to

00:29:38.540 sharing it through your own personal stories? I just, I feel inside, you know, I, I just know

00:29:45.320 I was a young fuck up and I'm not that much different. All I am is I'm older and I've worked 0.69

00:29:51.500 longer. So it's like, if I know how I feel truly, I got to be honest with myself. I can't look in the

00:29:58.300 mirror and tell myself, you're the man, you can help all these people. You can, you know, pave,

00:30:04.000 show the path. I don't, I don't know the path. I have no idea. I'm just trying to work and

00:30:10.320 win each day. I think that's probably a big part of the reason people are attracted to your messaging

00:30:17.400 and your story. I probably a story is a better word to say is because of that answer. And I don't

00:30:23.520 think that's a canned or scripted answer. No, I'm just telling you how I feel. Right. And I think

00:30:27.520 that, but I think that, that humility of like, I don't know, is actually refreshing because

00:30:32.600 everybody knows everything now, right? It's like they don't, but they pretend like they do.

00:30:36.660 Yeah, no, I get it. I mean, it's, it's, you know, I have, I have, I've worked with people over the

00:30:43.320 years who I never heard them say one time, I don't know. They always had some bullshit answer. 0.97

00:30:49.300 They didn't know everything, but it's so hard for men to say, I don't know. It's actually a good 0.99

00:30:54.220 question. And because everybody, like you said, wants to have the answer, wants to be the expert.

00:31:00.260 And it's, uh, I just know I don't feel that way. So, I mean, if I'm being honest with how I feel,

00:31:05.960 it's, uh, the only advice I have, it says right there, I think it says how to work hard,

00:31:11.020 outlast and keep hammering. That's it. Yeah. There's no, there's no guaranteed success. It's

00:31:17.020 just like, here's what I do. And here's what I've learned. And maybe you can learn something too.

00:31:21.600 That's a, that's a fair, that's a fair response. I got a kick. I was watching a show the other night

00:31:26.720 and somebody said, you know, you, you can be, you can be anything or do anything you want if you

00:31:32.200 work hard enough. And I'm like, I don't, I don't know if that's true. I think sometimes there's

00:31:38.400 just things beyond our control. Like we can work as hard as we possibly can and things may not work

00:31:44.280 out, but we give ourselves this like weird sense of hope and saying, well, you can be anything that

00:31:48.780 you want to be. I'm like, no, no, I don't think that's true. I don't, I don't think that's even

00:31:52.660 dealing and operating in reality. No, I mean, no matter how hard I work, I'm not going to be six,

00:31:57.400 nine. Right. Exactly. I'm not going to be LeBron, 260 pounds. So it's just like work can't get you

00:32:02.360 that. Yeah. So there are things that, that work won't get you, but what success in life isn't one

00:32:08.840 of them. So if you want to be successful in how we measure life right now, you know, with the house

00:32:13.880 and all these normal things, hard work can get you that opportunity, chasing dreams. If you do

00:32:20.720 discover your passion and your goal is to use that passion to reach people, that's possible

00:32:27.940 through, through hard work. And one thing I always, I do remember too, Roy would say is

00:32:34.340 how would he word it? He said hunting was his way of connecting with people. He otherwise wouldn't

00:32:42.380 have a chance to connect to like people with church. He's, he would call it his missions field.

00:32:47.320 And so he would be able to use hunting to go and talk to men who otherwise wouldn't listen

00:32:53.240 to him because why would they? Men have to be, why am I listening to you again? I'm not 0.99

00:32:58.140 really sure why I should care what you say. If he was out killing grizzly, killing brown

00:33:03.220 bear, killing sheep with his bow for some guys, that's like, okay, you earned my respect now. 0.96

00:33:08.760 Now what were you saying again? And so he would use hunting as a way to connect and to help

00:33:13.700 society as a whole, how he's, how he saw fit. So to me, that's what I do. I use what I can

00:33:19.680 do, which is hard work. I can run, I can go, like I met Nick Baron ran and I'll be honest,

00:33:26.080 you know, when I go and do stuff like that, it's like, I'm feeling like I'm excited. This

00:33:31.400 is a challenge. I'm, I want to do this is what I'm looking forward to. Cause also I have

00:33:35.500 to live up to, you know, the standard I set for myself. He's this young beast. So I'm like,

00:33:40.720 all right, let's do this. It's a test. And, uh, I think by doing that, people follow both

00:33:47.020 of us. Um, people can see that connection. They can see like, Oh, here's two guys pushing

00:33:52.740 each other, both, you know, trying to influence other people. And it's like, why are they listening

00:33:59.120 to me? Why do they care about me? Maybe it's from hunting, just like Roy. Maybe it's from

00:34:02.740 running with somebody like Nick bear. Maybe it's from anyway, you take advantage of these different

00:34:08.580 avenues that's presented with you, as I say, through destiny or through whatever you're

00:34:12.640 calling or what, why we're here. And you just try to maximize those and you try to reach all

00:34:17.560 the people who can and try to make a positive impact on as many people as you can by using

00:34:21.600 your skillset. And that's all I'm trying to do. All right, guys. Hey, look, just a quick

00:34:26.940 break from the conversation. If you're looking for a quick, easy and inexpensive way to support

00:34:31.360 what we're doing with the order of man movement, uh, then I would encourage you to check out

00:34:35.360 our merchandise store at store.orderofman.com. Uh, we just released two new shirts. One is

00:34:41.180 called a King card and the other is hoist the black flag. And in addition to that, we've

00:34:45.480 got a dozen other shirts and hats to choose from and our bestseller, the 12 week battle

00:34:50.400 planner. That's going to help you get your life on track once and for all. We've got a

00:34:54.680 lot of merchandise over there, hats, shirts, battle planners, uh, patches, decals, beanies

00:35:00.220 so much. And we've got a lot of new merchandise coming in for the spring and moving into the

00:35:04.840 fall as well. We're thinking about that already. So if you want to support what we're doing,

00:35:08.540 look good in the meantime, and also share this message of reclaiming and restoring masculinity,

00:35:13.860 then check it all out at store.orderofman.com store.orderofman.com. Do that right after the

00:35:20.840 conversation for now. I'll get back to it with Cam.

00:35:24.360 It's refreshing because there's so many phonies and fakes out there, you know, pretending there's

00:35:29.880 something they're not. We're trying, and it's easy to fool people because we're looking at each

00:35:34.260 other through these little miniature screens and you can not really disclose the uncomfortable or

00:35:40.000 inconvenient parts of your life. Yeah. Yeah. No, people leave that out for sure.

00:35:44.920 Yeah. So when somebody actually shares and talks about it, it's like, Oh good. Thank you. You're a

00:35:48.980 normal human being. You're not Superman. Yeah. I mean, yeah. And that's the, that's a premise to the

00:35:53.940 book is there's, you know, plenty of challenges in there. And, um, the feedback I've got is it,

00:35:59.400 you know, it kind of makes people feel like maybe they aren't any different than anybody else.

00:36:03.880 You know, maybe these things that nobody really wants to talk about. And like you said, you kind

00:36:08.860 of, you show the highlights on social media, but if you pull the curtain back and look,

00:36:14.260 maybe we're all kind of the same and we all have the same doubts and fears. And maybe it's just the

00:36:19.600 guys that keep, keep just punching that time clock and putting in the work. Maybe those are the guys

00:36:24.380 that rise up. And so that's what I think. And that's what I'm trying to celebrate.

00:36:28.900 I think probably a lot of people use what we're talking about now as an excuse. Well, the reason

00:36:36.340 Cam's so good is because he's, you know, naturally talented. Let's just say that's something somebody

00:36:41.240 would say. And, and what it does simultaneously is it gives those people an out because they're like,

00:36:48.020 well, I'm not. So like, there's nothing I can do. So they just throw out their hands. And it's a

00:36:52.100 really convenient way to dismiss what other, what high performers are doing. So they don't have to

00:36:58.120 perform themselves. Yeah. I mean, it happens all the time, but that's also what happened, what made

00:37:02.940 Goggins story so powerful is because he had the before and after story or pictures. He had this story

00:37:09.820 about where he would get milkshake and donuts and go, you know, after spraying for cockroaches or

00:37:16.340 whatever it was. And he was overweight and we saw the Navy SEAL thing on the TV. He had the story. So

00:37:21.980 people could identify with that and be like, that's me, or that's how I feel. Yeah. And then

00:37:27.920 they see what Goggins has turned himself into one of the most motivational people in the world.

00:37:32.920 And it, it gives, it gives people hope. And I, I think that, you know, hope is so powerful. You know,

00:37:41.620 if we can give each other hope, hope for something better, hope for contentment, hope for,

00:37:46.900 you know, achieving your full potential. That's a beautiful thing. Like with Goggins, it sounds like

00:37:53.940 he reached this and I, you know, I've gone through the story and I was able to sit down with him years

00:37:57.600 ago and do a podcast with him. And it seemed like he reached this like inflection point where he just

00:38:03.520 like had enough and he just had to hit it and just get his life together. And I'm sure he had ups

00:38:07.320 and downs even after that point. Um, was there a point or a moment for you like that or, or was it

00:38:13.860 gradual? Like, okay. Or, or have you always been this way? What does that timeline look for you?

00:38:19.100 It's gradual. I mean, it's just, I, you know, I knew like for, for me, drinking was always like,

00:38:26.220 as a young man, it's like, that's what we did. Everybody partied. You go to the rock pit,

00:38:29.600 you build a fire, you talk shit and drink beer. And then you hopefully you're not too drunk and you can 0.99

00:38:34.840 drive home. It's like, I knew if I was at this one place and we're partying, I only had pretty

00:38:39.020 much two turns to make until I was home. It was like 10 miles this way. And then eight miles that

00:38:44.400 way. And then I was home. Um, not the greatest way to live, but I, I knew that drinking wasn't the,

00:38:51.800 and, and acting like I was, wasn't what I was supposed to be doing. And so there's times when I'm

00:38:59.040 never drinking again, blackout, drunk, whatever, got punched, this whole thing. Then you're,

00:39:04.840 after a couple of weeks, you forget you're back to, Oh, you're sure you can have a couple. Yeah.

00:39:09.280 Okay. I have a couple of, then you're back doing the same shit. Yeah. So of course there's all those 1.00

00:39:12.920 things. Then I had a kid with my wife, Tanner was born. And, uh, then it's like, Oh, okay. I got to

00:39:19.120 be a better role model that lasts for a month. Then you're back to doing, making the same mistakes.

00:39:24.920 So eventually though, it just got, I was just sick of feeling like that sick of justifying it sick of

00:39:30.660 making excuses. And it's like, okay, what am I doing? I want to, I need to, I want to live on this

00:39:37.180 path. I want to be, I want to be an example for my son. And, uh, it just was a slow, gradual, just

00:39:44.560 being sick and tired of feeling like shit. Do, uh, do some of those old patterns or, or habits or 0.99

00:39:53.860 behaviors or even just thought processes still slip into your mind or have those been quieted

00:40:00.760 because of the way that you've lived your life over the past, you know, two, three, four or five

00:40:04.260 decades? Oh, no. I mean, I, you know, shot show back years ago, it's always for the hunting industry.

00:40:11.440 It's hard to go to Vegas and not have, you know, whatever, have a drink. So yeah, I mean, um, but now

00:40:18.520 I've went to Vegas many years in a row and I just don't even drink. Cause I, I'm always like, no,

00:40:23.040 I want to lift. I want to run, but no, there's still, there's always, there's always temptations

00:40:28.240 out there. You're never, life is never void of temptation. And there's always that choice

00:40:33.000 to make, whether it's the right way or the wrong way. And I always say this to the hard

00:40:37.600 path, the easy, easy path. I choose a hard path as often as I can, as opposed to the easy

00:40:42.360 path and hard path has led me to great things. The easy seldom leads to anything memorable.

00:40:48.980 Um, the wrong decisions, like with partying or whatever party never really leads to anything.

00:40:56.300 No, never. So it's like fun in the moment. Yeah. It's, it's just hard, different situations,

00:41:01.940 different, you know, at home, it's easy to make good decisions on the road. It's tougher

00:41:05.880 to make good decisions, but no, now I've pretty much screwed up as, as, as big as anybody can.

00:41:12.580 And, uh, you know, I mean, we never stopped learning, but I'm just trying to be the best

00:41:18.000 I can every day. I liked the phrase in the book, there's a chapter and the book's cool where you

00:41:23.040 have the, like the lesson or the story, and then you have the call out. But one of the things you

00:41:26.920 mentioned in there is, um, train hard, hunt easy. And that really resonated with me. It's like

00:41:33.280 in, in training, cause I'll, I'll see some people who want to make things harder than they need to be

00:41:38.020 in like a real world scenario. I'm like, no, like now's not the time to make this more difficult.

00:41:43.700 Yeah. Like you should have been training and preparing for this leading up to an unfortunate

00:41:48.300 event or potential catastrophe. So that really resonated with me as you talk about that train

00:41:53.840 hard, hunt easy. Yeah. I mean, with the hunts that I do, if the hunt is the hardest thing you've ever

00:41:59.740 done, you're probably not going to be at your best. You know, you can't be at your best.

00:42:04.040 You, when the hunt is like, no, I've done much harder stuff than this. And so that I'm at my

00:42:09.740 best when I'm getting ready to kill this animal, or I want to, you know, deliver a merciful death 0.94

00:42:14.100 on an animal, I respect like the big bull elk or something. If I'm, if I'm so fatigued, because

00:42:19.000 that's the hardest situation I've ever had to overcome. And then I'm expected to deliver a fatal

00:42:23.960 arrow, not going to happen, not going to happen. Yeah. So my hunts are easy by comparison. That's the

00:42:28.680 whole point, you know, and that's, that was, I guess, too complicated for a lot of guys to

00:42:33.620 understand. They were like, Oh, you just want easy hunts. I'm just like, Oh my God. Yeah. People

00:42:38.260 are. So I, I go on hunts and it's just like, I can, I feel like I'm at my best the whole time.

00:42:44.840 Right. That was because the training's been there. It is funny what you say more and more. It seems

00:42:51.020 like people, and it's just through that little box that we call a phone where people are like 0.83

00:42:54.740 incapable of discernment or, or they, or they'll play dumb to score like gotcha points. I'm like, 0.64

00:43:00.940 is that really what you think? Like, why are you being dumb deliberately to try to get me? 0.99

00:43:06.400 Like, it's such a weird phenomenon. I don't get it. Somebody just right before we started 0.99

00:43:10.360 recording here, sent me a message and they bought, there's another, I think there's a few books called

00:43:14.760 Endure. Okay. Right. Yeah. They sent me the cover of the other book called Endure and they said,

00:43:19.340 did I get the wrong one? I'm like, well, is that me on the cover? Is my name on the book?

00:43:24.320 God, you really need me to answer this question. It's funny. Like we're so, it's, it's crazy. But

00:43:32.980 look, I'll, I'll, I'll play devil's advocate a little bit on that one. Okay. And, and here's

00:43:36.980 what I'll say is I think people are so inspired by you and, or, or, um, or other people and they're

00:43:43.420 like looking for a reason to connect and they don't know how to do it. So they're like,

00:43:48.140 ask you a stupid question. Truly. No, you're, you're not wrong. Well, but I think people are 1.00

00:43:53.260 looking for a connection with others. Maybe it's how I met my wife. She worked at the warehouse.

00:43:57.760 I worked at the warehouse. She had like the nicest ass in the warehouse. I remember that all the guys 1.00

00:44:02.720 thought that. So I went up to her and I was like, Hey, uh, do you know what time it is? So maybe it's

00:44:08.360 like that. That's what I'm saying. It's like, you can't see that clock right there. What did she,

00:44:12.620 did she say that? No, no. But, uh, yeah. So maybe it's like that.

00:44:17.400 That goes back to what we were saying about trying to date me.

00:44:20.220 Yeah. They might, they, who knows? They might actually be. Yeah. Such a weird, it is just a,

00:44:25.320 it's a very strange phenomenon, but I think a lot of it too comes from maybe a bit of entitlement

00:44:31.460 mentality to like, everything's so convenient. Everything's so easy. Everything's at the push

00:44:35.700 of a button. We have access to other people unlike we ever had in any other time in history. And so

00:44:40.460 it's like, well, I'm, you put your stuff out there. Like, you're not going to message me back.

00:44:44.780 It's like, well, you know, doing other things too. Like I do have a life.

00:44:48.000 Oh, it's all good. Yeah. I mean, there's a, there's a pluses and minuses to connecting with

00:44:53.900 so many people. Um, yeah, it can be tough. It can be irritating sometimes, but man, the positives

00:44:59.680 surely outweigh the negatives. I mean, it's one reason why this book is taken off so well is because

00:45:05.040 I do have that connection with people and they do feel like I'm not so much different than them that

00:45:11.140 they can't identify with it and go through the same challenges. So do you get, do you get stopped

00:45:15.240 and hit up? Like if you're out to eat or if you're at the airport, I'm just a bow hunter.

00:45:20.560 No, come on now. Nobody gives a shit about me. You don't get stopped. You don't get recognized. 0.99

00:45:25.940 Not really. No. That surprises me. You will now. Look, look what you did. I don't know. I fit in. I mean,

00:45:34.180 I'm just a guy with the baseball hat and walking around. So, well, I think you're, I think you're

00:45:39.180 more than that. I think a lot of people think that you are, but again, that, that level of humility,

00:45:43.220 I think is, is what, what appeals to other people. Cause you just, it seems like it's, uh,

00:45:49.940 increasingly rare. Yeah. I don't know. I just know I, I have my own doubts and you know, um,

00:45:57.680 yeah. So I just, I'm just trying to do the best I can every day. I love connecting with other people

00:46:01.920 who are also trying to do their best. And I feel like that's the energy I want. Um,

00:46:08.160 and it's, and it's empowering. I mean, anytime I, I spend time with a high achiever, like the,

00:46:14.060 the people we've mentioned, um, it makes you want to do more. And I want to be that person for other

00:46:19.100 people. Yeah. How do you weigh, um, opportunities that are presented to you? Cause I'm sure at the

00:46:24.560 stage of life you're in and with the influence that you have with other people, you probably have

00:46:28.720 more access to opportunity than, you know, somebody else. Uh, so how do you weigh, okay,

00:46:34.460 that's something I'm going to pursue versus that's something I'm not. What does your decision

00:46:39.200 making process look like with that? Oh man. I don't know. I mean, I get, I don't know.

00:46:46.140 I just, if it feels right, you know, um, like with this book, we're here at the fed agency.

00:46:51.940 This is Esther is, uh, was the book agent who called me and she had this essentially a pitch

00:46:58.000 and she's super, um, positive and was seen very excited about it. And I was at work and I'm just

00:47:05.280 like, Oh, wow. We'll, we'll see. I think, I think, uh, she got my number from the shockies,

00:47:12.500 I believe. And, um, yeah, I know. I mean, and, uh, let's see shockies have a, they had an agent

00:47:23.120 or representative Greg Gutschow and he had called before and talked about this and I don't know if

00:47:28.180 he knew. So I guess, yeah, he did know Esther, but, and I, I talked to him and I'm like, yeah.

00:47:34.440 And then I never called, never called back, never did anything. So it was just like these opportunities

00:47:38.900 come up and usually I don't pursue it. Cause I'm like, no, I, this is my routine. I don't,

00:47:43.460 don't have time to do anything else. I have a regular job. I need to train. I want to get ready

00:47:47.600 for the bow hunt. I'm not really looking for other big projects, but because of Esther's personality

00:47:53.040 and her, uh, she just seemed like it was going to be a great thing. And, and, you know, I bought in

00:47:59.780 and saying, well, maybe, you know, maybe this would be good. Maybe this would be a good opportunity to,

00:48:03.760 to get something out there that could help people like me. And, uh, you know, this vision,

00:48:08.900 kind of came through, we went through the, the publishers and here we are. But normally it's

00:48:14.900 like, I'm going to say no to everything because I don't care. And I don't, I mean, I don't even know

00:48:20.980 how much I make at my normal job. I don't know what I, I just go to work. That's what I do.

00:48:25.020 I'm not looking to add a bunch of other things. I have big challenges I want to take on in the summer

00:48:30.840 racing wise. And then I have big hunts. I want to be at my best for in the fall.

00:48:35.220 And I want to be an example for my kids. And that's, that's it. I don't need anything else.

00:48:41.000 This was something else. This isn't like one of my favorite things to do. Yes. I'm happy. It's,

00:48:46.920 it's over and it's going well and hopefully it can make an impact. But yeah, I'm usually not looking

00:48:53.500 for more opportunity. What is, uh, with your, with your current job, you work in, in, uh, with,

00:48:59.700 with utilities, right? Yeah. Water and power, water and power. So what is that? How does that

00:49:05.540 add to your life at this stage that you're at? Cause it's got to enhance your life in some way.

00:49:09.820 Otherwise it doesn't seem like you would need to do it financially or even be interested in doing it.

00:49:16.240 Yeah. Um, how would, okay. Well, so when I got the job 26 years ago, I would pray,

00:49:25.700 I'd get a job like this, a steady job that I could provide for my family by house. And so this job

00:49:33.060 was the best job I ever had. It was at a, at a, you know, a public municipality. I knew I was going

00:49:40.760 to have a job forever. People always needed water and power. If I did my job, I would have a job in

00:49:44.680 my family. I could pay the bills. So I have that same mindset. It's like, how are you quitting the

00:49:50.900 best job you ever had? A job you prayed you'd get. And now it feels like, am I too good for it?

00:50:00.100 Cause I don't feel too good for it. So I've had a hard time walking away from a job that I prayed

00:50:04.860 about. Um, aside from, like I said, I don't know how much I make there, but it's the people

00:50:12.040 that I've worked with for 26 years of people who, you know, they know I believe in them.

00:50:17.220 They perform well for me, you know, as our supervisor and I'm, I'm loyal. I'm loyal to

00:50:23.580 the general manager at the company. It gave me an opportunity. I'm loyal to the guys that work for me

00:50:28.980 and, uh, they rely on me to make good decisions and help them succeed. And that's what I'm there for.

00:50:33.780 So it's a, it's a tough decision to make, to leave that. Um, how I've, you know, tried to justify it in

00:50:42.060 my head is that my, me leaving is going to give some of those younger guys who've been working

00:50:48.400 so hard an opportunity to take my place. Somebody is going to be the superintendent. Um, I was the

00:50:54.540 buyer before this, and I was still doing the buying jobs and the bids and the contracts until they just

00:51:01.080 hired somebody to take that over to. And so there's, they're going to be, there's opportunity

00:51:06.580 for people who have earned it and have the ability to take my place and hopefully make the company

00:51:13.180 better. Right. So I'm happy for them. Yeah. No, I've thought about that. I'm like, man,

00:51:18.760 surely Cam doesn't need to do that at this stage. So I'm always curious. I've been curious about

00:51:23.000 what, what's the driving factor, the motivating factor.

00:51:25.640 Just loyalty. Yeah. Something to be said for that. That's for sure.

00:51:29.460 Yeah. Cause again, that's, that's increasingly rare. It seems like.

00:51:33.560 I guess so. I mean, I, it's, uh, you know, I show up when I'm supposed to, I've never called

00:51:38.880 on sick in 26 years. Um, they can count on me. And it's the only reason why I've been successful

00:51:44.320 there. There's, like I said, I question my ability sometimes, but the people that, that I work for

00:51:49.840 know that, no, if Cam's supposed to be here, he's going to be here every time.

00:51:53.940 Well, and there's also something to be said. I've thought about this too, is, you know,

00:51:57.140 from their perspective where you've got the book and you've got this and you've got that and you're

00:52:01.040 hunting and you're doing, you're doing these things, you're traveling. It's like, man, for the

00:52:04.340 company to have enough faith in you to feel comfortable that you're out doing this other

00:52:08.940 stuff, that's a pretty telling sign of the relationship that the both ways, the relationship

00:52:16.120 goes. I try to be valuable in everything I do to, from my sponsors to, you know, a book agent to

00:52:25.300 every person. I want to be like, Cam is an investment. He's earning his worth and he's,

00:52:34.540 you know, he's proven himself. And so I want to be the best value I am for that company.

00:52:39.140 And I have been, they know that I offer more than, than if there's any takeaway,

00:52:45.560 what I offer out offsets that and more. So I just want to be the best investment for any people I work

00:52:51.300 with. How, how was it to switch gears a little bit, but on the same vein, how was it to, uh, step

00:52:58.560 away from Under Armour? Cause if I understand you were their longest standing endorsed or sponsored

00:53:05.140 athlete, is that right? Yeah. So what, what was that like knowing that they, and you've talked

00:53:10.780 about this as they believe in you, they supported this way. And I know Kip is a, is a, a dear friend

00:53:16.300 of yours. And so then to, to leave that, what was that transition like? And in relationship to the

00:53:22.740 loyalty thing that you talk about? Um, well, the people who I was loyal to, who I was loyal to at

00:53:27.940 Under Armour, no, no longer worked there. Kip was, he was a driving force in the Under Armour hunt

00:53:33.300 category. So he left a few years ago, I was under contract and I'm like, well, I'm under contract.

00:53:39.080 I'll, I'll finish it out and I'll see what happens, you know? And it's like, they ended up

00:53:44.440 business, whatever there's, you know, there's no, no feelings in business, I guess. And so they

00:53:51.140 hired out, they had a marketing firm doing their dealing with their athletes. And it wasn't even

00:53:56.600 anybody at Under Armour. It wasn't Kip, it wasn't somebody who I had a relationship with.

00:54:00.160 So it's like, if I'm just, just another whatever. So I'm a, I'm a, I'm a cost in the, in the,

00:54:09.080 right. You're just like a line item. Yeah. I'm just a line item. It's just like,

00:54:12.020 I don't know. It's just made it easy to be like, no, I mean, if there's no personal connection

00:54:17.700 and it's the money, whatever, I mean, they're, you know, it's a, it's a little weird how

00:54:24.960 I sold a lot of shoes and, uh, and not saying Under Armour, this is like, this is like this

00:54:33.680 whole woke culture, but you would think as many shoes that I sell running. Yeah. I'm not like

00:54:40.260 you're, I don't know. I don't really fit like what's a woke celebration. I'm a, I'm an old white

00:54:46.060 guy. Right. But people care about what I wear and they see me wear it every day. And Under Armour

00:54:52.900 had it, you know, penciled down as you can sell 20,000 shoes, pairs of shoes, 200 bucks

00:54:57.120 each. That's $4 million right there. So even if I wasn't an Under Armour, you'd think that

00:55:03.040 another running shoe company would be like, God, this guy can move some product. And they'd

00:55:07.280 be like, well, let's reach out to him. You know, they, they see that I left Under Armour

00:55:11.400 that, that, uh, the running community is so woke they can't, they can't, even though I can

00:55:18.800 sell products for hunting. So it's just, it's just weird. It's just like these big

00:55:22.880 companies. And I'm not saying that that played a part of it, but you know, where I stand,

00:55:27.800 I'm not really like this. You know, a lot of professional athletes don't really take a

00:55:31.920 stand on stuff, right? They just kind of, they don't want to, um, yeah, rock the boat. They

00:55:37.780 don't, you know, they're just trying to get paid. I would say what I believed, you know,

00:55:42.380 whether it's about anything. And so nobody ever said, we don't want you talking about this,

00:55:48.820 but whatever. I mean, it's, uh, that was, it was an underlying message of it a little bit.

00:55:53.980 It seemed like, I don't know. I mean, it's, it's hard to say. I mean, it's hard to say.

00:55:58.900 I just felt like trying to toe the line of this, these big, these big companies just gets harder

00:56:05.940 and harder when they're, when it's not just them, it's any company, Nike, anybody, they want to,

00:56:11.980 you know, they want to celebrate who knows what, not people like me. So they talk about people being

00:56:20.060 marginalized. I think an old white bow hunters marginalized, right? Uh, yeah. Yeah. Maybe. 0.87

00:56:27.260 I don't know. A lot of people would probably think not, but I felt, yeah, I know. I'm just joking,

00:56:33.260 but I felt like it was a good time. I think 17 years was a good run. I'm thankful for the

00:56:40.140 opportunity, but it was just a good time to let's see what else is out there. So, I mean,

00:56:45.440 I hope they're successful. I mean, I'm still, they actually are still selling my shoes somehow,

00:56:49.980 which is a little irritating, I guess, but I get royalties off of them. And then, you know,

00:56:55.760 these companies, not just them make it sound like they're doing you a favor by you getting royalties.

00:57:00.740 And it's like, well, yeah, okay. I'm getting 5%. So who's getting the 95%? That's you. So don't

00:57:05.740 act like you're doing me any favors. Right. It's a partnership kind of. Yeah. Yeah.

00:57:09.840 Where I'm getting screwed. Yeah. Exactly. A bad partnership. Yeah. Well, 0.96

00:57:13.120 you said something interesting. Actually, no, you didn't say it. Kip told me we did a podcast and

00:57:18.620 you had to be sending you the clip. I don't know if you remember this. And he was, and I'm paraphrasing,

00:57:23.800 but he was talking about how initially that you weren't being recognized for what you think you

00:57:32.240 were doing or something like that with, with maybe Under Armour or just as an athlete in general. And so

00:57:36.800 it created this almost like this chip on your shoulder. Yeah. Would you, would you describe it like

00:57:42.240 a chip on your shoulder or would you describe it different?

00:57:45.680 I definitely chip. I still have a chip on my shoulder. No, I, I mean, I felt like I was doing

00:57:50.540 good work for many years before I got, I mean, they had me signed on, but it's like sometimes,

00:57:56.100 sometimes these companies might sign somebody on just so they're not working with the competition.

00:58:02.240 Oh, to shut them down. Yeah. And they can control it. Yeah. You know,

00:58:05.660 so I felt like they, I was signed. Yeah. I was signed by them, but they weren't maximizing

00:58:11.580 what I could offer. Right. So was it cause they didn't realize what I could offer, which is what

00:58:17.100 I had in my, in my head or, or were they intentionally keeping me in the back 40 so I

00:58:24.140 couldn't get out there with the competition and make a mark. And so I felt like I weighed,

00:58:28.060 I wavered between each of them. Um, but Kip, as much as admitted it that, yeah, I wanted more,

00:58:35.820 they weren't giving me what I wanted. And finally over time, I was, I, anybody out there that's easy

00:58:44.480 to do and you can easily play the victim card, but you have, if you take the mindset as you become

00:58:50.840 undeniable, no matter what they want to do, if you become undeniable and they can't,

00:58:56.540 they can't keep you down anymore, then they're going to celebrate you. And that's what they did.

00:59:00.900 So I became undeniable. They, they made the boots, the shoes, the camo line, they did all this and I

00:59:08.500 was the face of it. And so it paid off. It was great. But yeah, it was a, for many years there,

00:59:14.080 I was pretty frustrated because I'm like, I'm working my ass off over here. I know I can make

00:59:19.400 a bigger impact if you just let me. And it's like convincing people to give you that opportunity.

00:59:25.120 You have to become undeniable. Yeah, it's true. I mean, I think about it even to a lesser degree

00:59:30.020 with the podcast is, you know, the amount of, the amount of people that I've reached out to,

00:59:37.020 you know, or tried to connect with and have been. Are you talking about me? No, not at all. No,

00:59:40.860 we're connected. I know the reason though. It's different, but like I've ignored or, you know,

00:59:48.480 or, or just scheduled and then just not showing up. It's like, yeah. And then, and then you get

00:59:54.320 to a point where you're at with, again, the podcast and all of a sudden it's like, Oh,

00:59:57.520 can we come on the podcast? I'm like, yeah, you could have four years ago too. You didn't want

01:00:01.940 to do it then. But you know what? I've noticed something. Um, we've done just about 400 interviews

01:00:08.620 with highly successful men. And it seems like most of the men that I've talked with have some

01:00:14.320 sort of like competitive edge. And it usually to me, from my perspective, manifests itself as a bit

01:00:22.560 of a chip on the shoulder. Yeah. Like there's some sort of edge there that gives them a unique

01:00:27.860 advantage over somebody who doesn't have those feelings or isn't charged the same way by those

01:00:34.760 feelings. It's kind of an interesting phenomenon. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Feeling that chip on your

01:00:40.180 shoulder can be a big motivating force, not feeling disrespected or, or not valued. That does

01:00:46.780 push people that push me for sure. And I know it pushes Goggins because I see him post about it all

01:00:51.660 the time. He loves replaying hateful clips. So yeah. And then you have people who are like, Oh,

01:00:57.540 you shouldn't do that. It's like, well, it seems to be working. Yeah. Why? What's the problem?

01:01:01.060 Yeah. What, what you don't want him to be the successful or what? Well, that's probably part

01:01:05.620 of it actually is people sometimes don't. Well, the other cool thing about Under Armour and you

01:01:11.400 stepping away is it seems like it's opened up this other door with, with origin too, which is an

01:01:16.640 incredible opportunity. And I'm somewhat connected, you know, cause they're, they're close personal

01:01:20.800 friends, but to see you and Kip and Pete take this idea. And I think Kip had a lot of these ideas

01:01:27.240 about the patterns and how to build this out. And obviously he has the experience. And then to see

01:01:31.020 you three come together with the supply, the American supply chain and, um, you know, building

01:01:37.300 this real product that's going to be available and probably less than 12 months was like the

01:01:41.940 turnaround time from like start to it's going to be available this fall. Like to see that and to see

01:01:47.140 you guys doing it that way, it's pretty incredible. Isn't it? I mean, it's a, I feel honored to be

01:01:51.780 involved in the process and to be able to offer American made hunting gear because it's not,

01:01:56.380 there's some out there, but it's a very small percentage of the market share. Yeah. Most of

01:02:00.760 the, uh, great camo companies or performance wear companies are a KU, an Under Armour, a Sitka. Those

01:02:07.660 are all made overseas and that's, you know, they have great product, but it's, you know, we're paying

01:02:12.240 China, Taiwan, Korea, somebody else, we're giving money to another country to do this. So we want to

01:02:18.180 compete with those guys and they set a very high bar, but we want to do it here in America with

01:02:22.740 America workers paying, uh, living wages to, to people who live right here in our own country,

01:02:28.860 in our patriotic. And we want to, we want to see what's possible in our country and making high end

01:02:35.800 hunting performance wear. And I think it's going to take off. It's going to be awesome.

01:02:39.300 The real question is, is there going to be a factory standard option for sleeveless, uh, camo

01:02:47.480 hoodies? Cause I've seen, you've already modified your hoodie.

01:02:50.140 Yeah. I mean, there should be, I don't know why there wouldn't be.

01:02:54.220 Yeah. I always, I always wanted that with Under Armour too. Cause it's just like, well,

01:02:58.520 why won't you market that? Are you kidding me? Let's do it.

01:03:01.580 I think it would sell. Clearly you can sell boots. You can sell sleeveless shirts and hoodies.

01:03:06.440 Yeah. I mean, Hey, you never know what'll happen. I might have to modify it. Somebody gave me a

01:03:11.000 t-shirt today with the sleeves pre-cut off.

01:03:13.180 Oh really?

01:03:13.740 Yeah. So were they cut in the right place though? Cause you know, that changes it.

01:03:17.340 I don't know. I got to try it on. Sometimes people just want to cut their own sleeves off.

01:03:20.860 I got to try it. I got to try it on and see how the fit is for this. It can't be too perfect. It

01:03:25.360 can't be too messed up. It's going to be just right. Do you, uh, how, how much, uh, planning

01:03:31.220 do you do with, as far as like goal setting and thinking about the future and what's on the horizon,

01:03:37.800 you know, you've been so successful in the hunting world, not just the industry, but actually hunting

01:03:43.280 itself, which sometimes is different. Those are two different things. Uh, and then you've got,

01:03:48.080 you know, this, this book that's number one on, on Amazon new releases right now. I have no doubt

01:03:53.180 that you're going to hit the times. Uh, you know, I, I have no doubt because I know you and Kip and Pete

01:03:58.820 that you're going to have this successful hunt line. Do you give much thought about what's next?

01:04:04.420 No, I mean, I, I, you can ask, I mean, you know, Rihanna has scheduled my travel. I don't schedule

01:04:13.920 any travel the week until the week I go. Cause I don't know what the future holds. I'm not counting

01:04:19.500 on anything. I'm just, I'm, like I said, I give the best every day I have. If, uh, I don't know

01:04:24.760 what I'm doing next week to answer your question. So no, I don't, I'm going to work hard. I guess I

01:04:30.020 have a little bit of a vision maybe when it comes to down the road, but waiting for this book to come

01:04:34.780 out seemed like 10 lifetimes. I mean, it was so long and it's just like, Oh my God, what? 18 months

01:04:41.400 from now or a year from now, I'm probably going to be dead by then, but I am alive still. The book

01:04:47.040 came out, but, uh, no, I'm not, I'm not a big visionary. I mean, I want my kids to be successful.

01:04:53.240 I want to provide a good life for me and opportunity. And that's about it. Then I just give the best to each

01:04:59.280 day. It seems like you're doing it, man. I appreciate you. This podcast has been,

01:05:03.340 so you brought it up five, five years in the works, I think. And it's worth every, every,

01:05:08.300 every minute we had to wait to make it happen, man. I've appreciated our friendship. And of course

01:05:12.020 you, and I'm here to support you. So when I said, I've said that. So, and when I say that,

01:05:16.800 I mean that, but whatever we can do to help you and support you and your mission, because I think

01:05:20.220 you're doing great things. And it's funny to me, like, it's, it's actually funny at this point to see

01:05:25.300 some of the vitriol that you get. I'm sure you don't always think it's funny,

01:05:28.400 but when I look at it, I'm like, what, what is wrong? Like just be inspired. That's it. Like

01:05:34.940 that's all you need or no. And find somebody else to follow. Like those seem like two pretty

01:05:38.680 reasonable options. That's all good. I love how you take it and you handle it and you just keep

01:05:42.600 getting better. So appreciate you, Cam. Thank you. Thanks for it. All right, you guys, there you go.

01:05:48.900 My conversation, like I said, I've been trying to get Cam on the podcast for five years now. We

01:05:52.480 actually talked about it. You heard in the podcast and so grateful that he was able to join us.

01:05:57.840 Uh, he's got a, a, a marathon of, of podcasts and everything else that he's doing with his busy

01:06:03.960 schedule for his book indoor. If you haven't picked up a copy, I would highly encourage you to do it.

01:06:08.400 And also one thing I've got a signed copy of indoor right here, and I'm going to give it out

01:06:14.260 to somebody who's listening. So all you need to do is leave a rating and review in iTunes. So just leave

01:06:22.100 a rating and review in iTunes, uh, and take that screenshot and send it to brandy, B R A N D Y 0.99

01:06:30.420 brandy at order of man.com with your screenshot of the rating review on iTunes. And you're going to

01:06:38.420 be entered in for a copy of endure. Okay. That's it. Screenshot email brandy at order of man.com.

01:06:46.420 And, uh, you'll be entered in for the strong that we're going to give away on Friday. All right,

01:06:52.320 that's it. So guys, I appreciate you. We'll be back tomorrow for our, ask me anything. And, uh,

01:06:59.660 I appreciate the support. So see you tomorrow until then go out there, take action and become

01:07:04.080 a man. You are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take

01:07:09.200 charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order

01:07:13.820 at order of man.com.

Order of Man - May 24, 2022

CAM HANES ｜ Train Hard, Hunt Easy

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