Order of Man - Chase Vs. Pursue, Re-Writing Your Scripts, and Leading with Clarity ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.000 Any time that you get triggered, you need to rewrite the script.

00:00:03.940 I thought about what you said about the trash, and first, I want to say you're right.

00:00:07.060 I did tell you I'd take out the trash, and I will work on that.

00:00:09.880 I will be better at that.

00:00:10.740 But I was upset because I had a really challenging day.

00:00:14.640 When you said that, I felt unappreciated.

00:00:17.520 It's hard for me to go out into battle some days,

00:00:20.260 and this is one of those days, and I felt like that comment

00:00:23.140 just dogpiled onto what I was already doing.

00:00:25.680 So just want to let you know where I'm coming from.

00:00:28.080 I'll be better on the trash.

00:00:28.940 I just wanted to explain to you how I'm feeling.

00:00:30.660 That is a great way to rewrite the programming

00:00:32.780 and build trust and rapport with somebody you love and care about,

00:00:35.420 and she loves and cares about you.

00:00:36.900 She didn't mean that.

00:00:39.680 Kip, what's up, man?

00:00:40.700 Good to see you on this President's Day.

00:00:42.460 You and I have talked about it at length.

00:00:44.500 Fake holidays, right?

00:00:45.440 Not that, you know, we shouldn't maybe honor some presidents, not all.

00:00:50.440 But this is one of those fake holidays.

00:00:52.400 So I'm still working.

00:00:53.360 Sounds like you are too.

00:00:56.020 Absolutely.

00:00:56.540 Getting after it on President's Day.

00:00:57.820 It's a good thing.

00:00:58.340 Yeah, it's a good thing.

00:00:59.460 How was the Hunt Expo?

00:01:01.260 Amazing.

00:01:01.820 You visited over the weekend.

00:01:03.600 Yeah, amazing.

00:01:04.400 I love the Hunt Expo.

00:01:05.380 I've probably been going for, gosh, this is probably my sixth or maybe seventh year.

00:01:11.360 I don't know.

00:01:11.700 I always have a good time.

00:01:12.640 It's good.

00:01:13.020 It's one of those things where you see a bunch of old friends

00:01:15.240 that you would still consider them friends, but you only see them once per year.

00:01:19.260 And I take my three boys up with me, and we go wander the booths and catch up.

00:01:23.340 I saw Josh with Montana Knife Company, the guys over at Big Chino Outfitters, Mountain

00:01:29.220 Knobs, Black Flag.

00:01:30.940 I mean, outdoor field solutions with Greg Ray.

00:01:35.260 If I keep listing them, I'm going to miss somebody.

00:01:38.400 Hunt Wars with Will Rummend.

00:01:40.360 Like, it's amazing.

00:01:42.400 I love it.

00:01:43.020 So I made the mistake of going on Saturday, though.

00:01:45.360 I don't know why I did that.

00:01:47.120 I don't really like a lot of people.

00:01:51.460 And so, yeah, it's crazy on Saturday.

00:01:54.580 I usually go on a Thursday and a Friday, but I don't know.

00:01:58.060 I made a mistake this time and paid for it with getting bumped into people.

00:02:02.540 And yeah, but it was good.

00:02:04.660 Other than that, it was good.

00:02:05.520 We had a good time.

00:02:06.200 Just too busy.

00:02:07.840 Oh, yeah.

00:02:08.280 It's just packed in there.

00:02:09.240 It's such a cool experience, though, to see everybody.

00:02:11.560 Go check it all out.

00:02:12.440 I love it.

00:02:12.840 And see what people are doing.

00:02:13.420 So, yeah.

00:02:14.580 All right.

00:02:14.840 Well, that was the weirdest start.

00:02:16.260 We had a couple of false starts, and we had some technology issues.

00:02:19.220 But I think we've got it taken care of.

00:02:20.860 So, Kip, it's good to see you.

00:02:22.220 Let's just jump into questions and see if we can make this work.

00:02:25.300 Sounds great.

00:02:26.380 So we're going to fill the questions from the Iron Council.

00:02:29.220 To learn more about the Iron Council, go to orderofman.com slash ironcouncil.

00:02:33.460 Our first question, Will Pinnell, during your Friday Field Notes, you mentioned a difference

00:02:39.520 between the terms chasing and pursuing.

00:02:42.460 Often, people would assume that they are synonymous.

00:02:45.820 In my view, pursuing has more intentional meaning, where chasing seems to be somewhat sporadic.

00:02:52.920 I'd like to hear your view on these two terms and their meaning.

00:02:55.800 Yeah, it's actually really easy.

00:02:59.040 And this can be in the realm of dating.

00:03:01.740 This can be in the realm of picking up new clients, growing your business, like whatever

00:03:07.100 you're after.

00:03:08.500 And it's very simple.

00:03:11.240 When you think of chasing, what we think about often is somebody or something running away

00:03:17.440 from us.

00:03:19.140 There's no chase if something is running away from us.

00:03:21.820 So whether you're trying to chase a woman around and she's not interested, you look 0.99

00:03:27.360 desperate and pathetic and she's running. 0.98

00:03:29.500 And the faster you run, the more she runs because she doesn't want to be caught. 0.99

00:03:34.900 Same thing with clients.

00:03:36.140 When I started early in my financial planning practice, I really struggled because I didn't

00:03:46.960 know how to attract clients in a good and healthy way.

00:03:50.640 And to me, pursuit means that I'm interested in that thing, whether it's a woman or a client

00:03:57.040 or something.

00:03:58.960 And I, as a man with a steady frame, am going to leave an opening and give opportunities for

00:04:07.060 her or them or whoever it is to accept my advances.

00:04:12.980 So that's it. 0.99

00:04:13.640 Somebody who's chasing is running all over the place, looking like a fool, being desperate 0.94

00:04:20.640 and the person or the thing is just fleeing further from them. 0.94

00:04:24.280 But a pursuit is in your mind.

00:04:26.340 You make it clear.

00:04:27.300 I want you.

00:04:28.240 I want that thing.

00:04:29.460 And my job is to create openings and opportunities and let that thing decide if it's interested 0.97

00:04:34.900 in some sort of personal, professional or romantic relationship with me.

00:04:38.680 That's it.

00:04:39.880 I think what we as men do is we go so hard and we end up undermining another person's

00:04:47.480 agency and sovereignty while we try to wrestle control over somebody else's life because we

00:04:52.640 think it would benefit ours.

00:04:54.700 And if you want to maintain your own sovereignty and your own agency, then you have to be willing

00:05:01.260 to acknowledge and respect and honor somebody else's ability to choose as well.

00:05:07.280 So that's as simple as that.

00:05:08.580 I create opportunities and then I let the chips fall where they may.

00:05:12.340 That's pursuit.

00:05:14.500 Yeah.

00:05:15.040 And if you look back at your financial practice, what would occur when you chased clients?

00:05:22.620 Yeah.

00:05:22.900 Like I said, you look desperate. 1.00

00:05:25.060 You look pathetic. 1.00

00:05:26.200 They run. 1.00

00:05:27.080 They go somewhere else.

00:05:28.260 They don't have any credibility.

00:05:29.960 You lose authority.

00:05:31.620 You lose everything.

00:05:33.040 You lose your frame.

00:05:34.440 And really what this comes down to is abundance.

00:05:40.380 If you have an abundance of opportunity, you'll be less likely to chase things that aren't

00:05:45.740 interested in being caught.

00:05:47.820 But if you're scarce and you don't know how to acquire resources and you don't know how

00:05:52.240 to develop your skill sets and you aren't somebody who has authority and credibility with

00:05:55.680 other people, then yeah, you're bound to chase.

00:05:58.440 But if you do, then you can just open up opportunities and people like magnets are drawn to you instead

00:06:04.040 of repelled against you.

00:06:07.000 Totally.

00:06:07.820 Well, and if you're chasing, then it's not about serving me, right?

00:06:14.540 It's not about what's in my best interest.

00:06:17.180 And that's where the desperation comes across real negative because it's like, well, this

00:06:22.000 guy's just trying to close this deal.

00:06:23.840 He's desperate for the money.

00:06:25.260 It's not about alignment.

00:06:26.380 It's not what's best for my organization.

00:06:28.060 And they question intent when the focus is desperate chasing.

00:06:34.580 Yeah.

00:06:35.660 It's like even in a relationship, let's say when you were younger, there was a woman chasing

00:06:43.200 you, which happens, right?

00:06:45.420 Does it, do you like that?

00:06:47.780 I, I don't like that.

00:06:50.700 Yeah.

00:06:51.360 If, if a woman is like overly attached, I don't, that doesn't, that's not attractive to me.

00:06:58.060 Now, I don't want the opposite either.

00:06:59.860 Somebody who's like repelled by and doesn't invest some energy, but there is a middle ground.

00:07:05.780 And if that's true about a woman chasing you, then it's certainly true about you chasing

00:07:11.640 a woman or like I said, a client or whatever else.

00:07:14.200 And it's just ineffective, right?

00:07:15.800 Like how many times are you going to chase around something that doesn't want to be caught?

00:07:19.880 And then what could you have done in the meantime?

00:07:21.820 What other clients could you picked up?

00:07:23.260 What other opportunities, what other women could you have met because you decided to have

00:07:27.300 some self-respect and dignity and just create opportunities for people who are attracted to you?

00:07:33.220 Yeah.

00:07:33.960 Yeah, totally.

00:07:34.580 All right, Jeremy Kofi, I did an off-cycle review of an employee and gave her a raise.

00:07:40.920 Her, she promptly shared her good news with other key employees this past Friday, creating

00:07:45.940 a lot of hard feelings.

00:07:47.980 Looking at it, honestly, I screwed up and should have either waited to do the one review or done

00:07:53.480 everyone at once.

00:07:55.640 What advice do you have to address these employees who have hurt feelings?

00:07:59.200 It feels disingenuous to suddenly schedule everyone for a review post hoc.

00:08:04.580 But I wonder if there's a correct path forward given where things stand.

00:08:09.840 Well, first of all, I actually don't think you screwed it up by doing a one-off review with

00:08:15.120 an employee who you thought was performing well.

00:08:19.220 Why wouldn't you do that?

00:08:20.260 Absolutely not.

00:08:21.140 So don't think for a second that that was the mistake.

00:08:24.280 The mistake was that you didn't communicate boundaries to her.

00:08:29.640 So, and how would you have known?

00:08:32.680 Maybe you've been in this experience before.

00:08:34.380 Maybe you haven't.

00:08:35.360 So here's a good learning lesson.

00:08:37.500 If I was having that performance review with you, Kip, I'd say, listen, this is not our

00:08:43.760 typical practice.

00:08:45.180 Normally, we'd have reviews halfway through the year or at the end of the year.

00:08:48.820 But I brought you in for a reason.

00:08:50.840 And I'd like to keep this conversation confidential between you and I because I don't want other

00:08:56.640 people misinterpreting it or reading into something that it's not.

00:09:00.080 But I've noticed that you've been performing really well.

00:09:03.560 And I'm very happy with your performance at the company and how you grow the business or

00:09:07.540 how you support the team.

00:09:08.620 And I want to go ahead and offer you a race.

00:09:12.100 How does that sound?

00:09:13.040 And, you know, you have that conversation and then you tell her, hey, by the way, I want

00:09:17.860 to remind you that this is not typical practice and I've never done this before.

00:09:23.100 So it would help me, you and the rest of the team if you kept the discussion that we're

00:09:29.100 having between us so that it doesn't create any other contention or animosity or hurt feelings

00:09:36.440 or dip in production.

00:09:38.620 Are you comfortable keeping this between us?

00:09:41.180 Yeah, sure.

00:09:41.960 Good.

00:09:42.760 Problem solved.

00:09:43.660 Done.

00:09:44.120 Before it was ever a problem.

00:09:45.400 So now, you know, don't just tell people because she's just excited.

00:09:50.020 Like she's not trying to be malicious.

00:09:52.020 She's she's excited about it.

00:09:53.620 She feels proud about it.

00:09:54.760 She wants to share it with somebody.

00:09:55.940 So, you know, her heart's probably in the right place now.

00:10:00.220 So I'd like to hear what you say.

00:10:01.720 And then we'll go back to the second part of the question.

00:10:04.260 How do you address this with the rest of the teammates?

00:10:07.420 Yes.

00:10:07.820 Yeah.

00:10:08.140 So regarding the off first off, I'm a huge advocate for promotions and raises when they're

00:10:15.340 deserved and not in some arbitrary yearly review cycle process.

00:10:21.100 That's silliness. 0.94

00:10:22.420 If you have someone that's winning and they're kicking ass, promote them. 0.97

00:10:26.720 Give them a raise right now. 0.93

00:10:28.420 Oh, well, our process is only no, that's silliness, right?

00:10:31.940 Like you're holding people back.

00:10:33.220 So, so I, I don't fall into that trap of like, oh, we have to give everyone a raise at the

00:10:38.140 same time.

00:10:38.600 So that way no one gets offended.

00:10:39.940 No, that's called pandering.

00:10:42.000 Right.

00:10:42.980 And what you definitely don't want to do, and we'll get into that, the pandering of the

00:10:46.300 other individuals.

00:10:47.500 Here's the other thing too.

00:10:48.560 I'm a huge advocate of pay transparency.

00:10:52.820 I'm, I'm actually a huge advocate of it.

00:10:54.600 Now, most companies can't do it and they can't do it because they're not clear what is winning

00:11:00.440 and what is required to be promoted.

00:11:03.080 The more you can go in that direction, Jeremy, the better because you're not promoting anybody.

00:11:10.060 They're promoting themselves.

00:11:12.240 They're doing the necessary work to get the raise.

00:11:14.620 When you can get that clear and then you get people that are upset.

00:11:19.440 It's like, well, it's up to you.

00:11:20.840 I don't hold the cards of you, of your promotion.

00:11:25.320 And so I love this idea.

00:11:28.060 Um, and it is possible.

00:11:29.400 I know it's possible, um, of, of transparency.

00:11:32.540 I think she, to your point, Ryan, I don't think she was malicious.

00:11:36.360 She's excited.

00:11:38.040 Um, and let's segue into these other people that are upset because I mean, that's the,

00:11:42.740 that's the big issue here is why are they upset?

00:11:45.220 So let's go there.

00:11:46.780 Yeah.

00:11:47.180 I mean, I, I think you, you touched on it a little bit when you said, um,

00:11:50.840 pay transparency.

00:11:52.200 I, I do agree with you as long as the standard's clear.

00:11:55.700 I don't think this falls in the realm of pay transparency because an employee shouldn't

00:12:01.580 be just flapping their gums about what they get paid without a clear directive to do.

00:12:05.540 So I don't think that's healthy.

00:12:07.480 Um, I think it creates a lot of contention and frustration.

00:12:10.320 So what were you going to say on that?

00:12:13.440 Well, I was just going to say you have to, if you're going to go down the path of transparency

00:12:18.380 around pay, then you go and prepare all the things that allows you to do that.

00:12:23.120 Yeah.

00:12:23.600 But you just don't go mid cycle and go, we're going to start being trade chance, trade,

00:12:27.720 be transparent with our pay.

00:12:28.980 Why?

00:12:29.300 Because half your employees will be pissed when they find out that pay bands are off,

00:12:33.480 they're underpaid and everything else.

00:12:34.680 Right.

00:12:34.880 So there's a process to get there for sure.

00:12:37.260 So as far as fixing it, here's what I would do.

00:12:40.120 And I'm actually, I might be stealing your thunder a little bit.

00:12:42.400 Cause I think you would say this is first we have to identify the problem.

00:12:45.820 Okay.

00:12:46.180 I can't tell you how many times, so we've got our, our brotherhood.

00:12:50.000 It's called the iron council.

00:12:51.220 A lot of you guys are familiar with it.

00:12:52.960 And I can't tell you how many times I've heard from people who are well-intentioned,

00:12:56.880 who will say, right, everybody's pissed because of this thing.

00:13:00.960 I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on.

00:13:02.540 Yeah.

00:13:03.420 Who's everybody.

00:13:05.220 Like let's, who's everybody first.

00:13:07.720 And then that person who's bringing it to my attention to do it in the right way says,

00:13:11.540 oh, these two people are upset.

00:13:13.460 Okay.

00:13:14.540 That's not everybody.

00:13:16.820 Okay.

00:13:17.220 So let's, let's be precise with our language.

00:13:19.860 And so you have to be careful because what you could do is if you just assume everybody's

00:13:24.700 mad is you could bring, bring a big company meeting into play and then you could piss off 0.84

00:13:30.120 people who weren't pissed.

00:13:31.220 So you, you need to talk with this employee and sit her down and say, Hey, you're not

00:13:38.400 in trouble.

00:13:38.760 Just want to let you know, you're not in trouble.

00:13:39.980 I have a little cleanup to do in the future when we have these conversations, unless stated

00:13:45.000 otherwise, they're between you and I not in trouble again, but who, who did you share

00:13:50.120 this information with?

00:13:51.120 And have you seen anybody who's upset?

00:13:53.480 Like get to the actual root of the problem.

00:13:55.200 Cause if there's one person that's upset, just bring the one person in and talk with

00:13:59.160 them.

00:14:00.100 Totally.

00:14:00.680 And the upsets are probably different.

00:14:03.120 Rob's upset because he asked for a raise last month.

00:14:06.060 And you said, no, Sally's upset because she thinks Laura's lazy, right? 0.98

00:14:11.980 Like they're not even the same upset.

00:14:13.820 Good point.

00:14:14.760 Yeah.

00:14:15.480 So I, you know, I wouldn't handle this on a company wide thing.

00:14:18.280 I might put together some standards about how pay raises and performance reviews work

00:14:23.720 in the future.

00:14:24.240 If you don't already have that in place, because this is showing something that might be a gap

00:14:28.340 and then people can understand.

00:14:29.560 And they're like, Oh yeah, this happens all the time.

00:14:31.540 And I like what you said too, Kip, about getting clear about what is winning and what deserves

00:14:36.280 a raise, what doesn't.

00:14:37.540 And when we do performance reviews, but if somebody's upset, I would bring them in and

00:14:43.300 I'd say, Kip, um, I know you've heard some things about Sally getting a promotion.

00:14:47.280 And, um, I heard that maybe you felt, um, unimportant or you felt bothered by that.

00:14:54.480 And rather than jump to conclusions, do you mind sharing with me what's going on?

00:14:58.640 And then you share, and then I explain, and then we're like, cool, drive on.

00:15:04.540 Here we go.

00:15:05.460 That's, that's how I would handle this on a one-to-one basis.

00:15:08.120 I also don't know, Jeremy, how big of a, uh, organization you have.

00:15:12.280 So I don't know how many employees we're talking about either.

00:15:15.760 Yeah, totally.

00:15:16.780 Well, and what, what I love about your counsel, Ryan, it's, it teaches them that they can express

00:15:22.040 an upset with you and nothing happened.

00:15:25.900 Like, it's not a big deal.

00:15:27.120 I didn't get in trouble and Ryan was open to getting feedback that I was upset about

00:15:31.380 someone.

00:15:31.740 Like we just built some relationship capital with them and we taught our employees that

00:15:38.060 when you have an upset, feel free to come to me and let me know what it is, right?

00:15:42.000 So we can address it.

00:15:42.840 So that's all positive.

00:15:44.180 If you really think about this, Jeremy, how awesome is it when you have a scenario within

00:15:48.680 an organization where an employee goes, Hey boss, um, I heard someone got a promotion.

00:15:53.840 Um, I want one translation.

00:15:57.380 How do I improve and perform better so I can make more?

00:16:01.780 What a good problem to have.

00:16:03.620 You want employees going, Hey, I want a promotion too.

00:16:08.200 The only time we don't want that is when we can't answer the, the question, you got to

00:16:14.520 be able to answer the question.

00:16:15.780 You want employees going, I want to raise, I want to become better.

00:16:19.320 I want to excel in my role.

00:16:21.540 I want to perform better.

00:16:22.560 You want them doing that, right?

00:16:25.700 So man, get clear on how and what they, what is, what is required to get a promotion.

00:16:32.560 This is a good problem.

00:16:34.100 I think it's a good problem.

00:16:35.340 I've had this before.

00:16:36.300 Someone gets a promoted and what, what do you know?

00:16:38.920 Some employees go, dude, Kennedy got promoted.

00:16:41.340 How do I get promoted?

00:16:42.460 I'm glad you asked.

00:16:45.020 Let me tell you what you need to do.

00:16:46.900 Yeah.

00:16:47.660 And what they need to do is perform better.

00:16:50.400 That's a good problem.

00:16:52.040 So you want to get to this point, right?

00:16:55.020 And I've done this, Jimmy, I promise you can have an organizations where every promotion

00:16:59.560 is known.

00:17:01.440 If you can't communicate, someone got promoted, you have other problems.

00:17:06.800 Leadership is holding the cards and the rules of performance, and they need not to do that.

00:17:12.840 It needs to be clear.

00:17:14.380 People will feel empowered.

00:17:15.620 Otherwise, what happens?

00:17:17.840 Well, Kip, are you going to get promotion?

00:17:19.600 I don't know.

00:17:20.340 I just hope that Ryan sees my value someday.

00:17:23.960 Dude, that's called disempowerment. 0.76

00:17:26.480 You're holding that?

00:17:28.280 No, give it to them.

00:17:29.760 Let them know.

00:17:30.980 Let them be clear on what's required and let them run.

00:17:35.880 There's so much, I don't know.

00:17:37.760 It's just, there's so much weight lost or less weight as leaders when it's out there and

00:17:43.860 people understand what's required of them to get a promotion.

00:17:46.880 You don't want that weight of holding that and it's unclear to you and you're not sure

00:17:51.620 and it's yucky.

00:17:52.780 So figure out how do you put it back into the control and empower the employees to manage

00:17:58.860 their own promotions and raises.

00:18:01.320 You used the word yucky.

00:18:04.120 It's funny because somebody just messaged me and they're like, hey, every time Kip uses

00:18:07.820 the word yucky, I cannot help but laugh.

00:18:11.320 I know, but it's funny.

00:18:13.540 It's really, it's actually really hilarious.

00:18:16.060 I had an employee like a year ago.

00:18:17.920 She's like, she's like, it's funny.

00:18:20.180 You use that word yucky.

00:18:21.320 She said this to me.

00:18:22.100 She used that word yucky. 0.99

00:18:23.040 But in some cases, I don't know a definite word either.

00:18:26.040 It's just, yeah, you know what I mean?

00:18:28.380 I'm like, yeah, I need to maybe read more and become more intelligent.

00:18:31.840 So I have a better word to use, but that's funny.

00:18:34.640 I wrote down here that ambiguity kills performance when, when people aren't clear.

00:18:41.260 And it's also, we have to remember that we as human beings operate through incentives

00:18:46.500 and disincentives.

00:18:47.460 That's it.

00:18:48.580 So we'll show up because we're incentivized to do so.

00:18:51.480 Sometimes it's pay.

00:18:52.420 Sometimes it's authority.

00:18:53.800 Sometimes it's autonomy.

00:18:54.720 Sometimes it's acknowledgement and recognition.

00:18:56.600 Sometimes it's just the feeling of a performance.

00:18:59.180 That's our incentive.

00:19:00.660 And then we have disincentives.

00:19:01.880 Sometimes it's, you'll go to prison if you do something legal or you'll be ostracized

00:19:07.020 from your community or you'll get fired.

00:19:08.940 And that's a disincentive.

00:19:10.460 So you have to consider what are you incentivizing through ambiguity, poor performance, frankly.

00:19:17.860 So, and, and look, I want to translate this to, to fatherhood, because this might be kind

00:19:23.060 of a more unique situation for everybody that might be listening, but the same holds true

00:19:27.460 in fatherhood.

00:19:28.060 I've got four kids and sometimes certain kids go on trips with me and others don't.

00:19:33.620 And sometimes somebody gets a prize or an acknowledgement or a job well done and others

00:19:39.340 don't.

00:19:39.860 And so when my kids say, well, how come he got to go and how come they got this?

00:19:46.000 It's like, because this is what they did and this is why we're doing it.

00:19:50.260 And then you just explain it and you say, Hey, if you would like that acknowledgement or

00:19:54.720 you would like to go on a trip, then let's figure something out and talk about what that

00:19:58.120 looks like.

00:19:58.500 So guys don't think just because you're not in Jeremy's position, this conversation doesn't

00:20:02.960 apply to you as, as old school parents would say, life's not fair.

00:20:09.420 And it, and I would say life's not, it's not that it's not fair.

00:20:13.320 I would say that life's not equal.

00:20:15.860 You are not the same person as everybody else.

00:20:18.300 You don't perform the same way.

00:20:19.540 You don't show up the same way.

00:20:21.060 You don't deserve the same benefits or lack thereof as another person.

00:20:24.940 It's not that it's not fair.

00:20:26.140 It's just not equal.

00:20:27.840 So as a leader in your home or in your business, make sure people understand why it's not equal

00:20:33.800 and what they can do to be incentivized in a way that's meaningful to them.

00:20:41.360 Totally.

00:20:42.900 You're an example of the kids asking on, you know, why didn't I get kudos or why don't

00:20:47.880 I get on, go on the trip?

00:20:49.840 What's the default assumption if you don't provide the clarity that it's tied to effort

00:20:55.080 or action?

00:20:56.920 Exactly.

00:20:58.460 Like that's the cost of not being clear.

00:21:01.960 Got it.

00:21:02.720 Dad doesn't love me as much as Brecken.

00:21:07.220 Dude, what a horrible message.

00:21:09.780 And mark my word, whether it's her kids or if it's an employees, they will move to, uh, 0.97

00:21:14.900 it's because they have a relationship.

00:21:17.060 It's not because of my merit.

00:21:18.560 It's because I'm not liked, which then is what a no win situation.

00:21:25.580 Yeah.

00:21:26.040 We got to make it clear.

00:21:27.920 We're trying to make it clear.

00:21:29.360 Okay.

00:21:29.680 What's next?

00:21:30.420 Good stuff.

00:21:31.020 Good.

00:21:31.220 Good question.

00:21:32.000 Jeremy.

00:21:32.300 A couple of good ones.

00:21:33.240 All right.

00:21:33.560 Last two.

00:21:35.100 Robbie Leffel.

00:21:36.960 Not a, oh, not a question.

00:21:40.000 Do you want to read it?

00:21:41.100 Uh, yeah, I don't know what it is.

00:21:42.700 I didn't look, uh, not a question, but you should track down the late Steve Irwin's dad.

00:21:47.180 If he's still alive, his son and grandson both seem to have turned out strong men.

00:21:51.380 Could you be interesting?

00:21:52.260 Guess it as an excuse.

00:21:53.340 That would be interesting.

00:21:54.320 There you go.

00:21:54.920 I don't know how old Steve Irwin's son is, but it would be cool to have his grandfather

00:22:00.080 and the grandson.

00:22:01.320 That would actually be kind of cool.

00:22:02.380 And then you can talk about legacy.

00:22:03.560 I'll have to look into that.

00:22:04.640 Cool.

00:22:04.900 What's next?

00:22:06.140 All right.

00:22:06.780 Joe Gunter.

00:22:07.700 What are some beliefs or experiences that you've had as a child that you carried into adulthood?

00:22:12.660 How are those experiences or beliefs shaping or hindering the man that you need to be?

00:22:17.940 Oh man.

00:22:19.220 I need to look at these questions a little bit closer before we, because I need to be

00:22:23.500 ready.

00:22:23.940 That's a deep question.

00:22:24.980 I mean, everything that I think about myself from the time I was a kid shapes who I am.

00:22:31.880 I, I'm going to think about it and just like punt a little bit here.

00:22:36.560 But I think the most important thing is not really, it's not specifically what we did

00:22:42.180 or did not learn.

00:22:43.140 It's, can we, can we identify it now?

00:22:48.520 And can we do something about it?

00:22:51.600 Because the reality is, is that we have been programmed from the time we were little boys,

00:22:56.540 even before we could talk, probably in our mother's womb, where we started to shape our

00:23:00.760 reality of, of our existence.

00:23:02.920 And it's so ingrained into who we are that we don't really even think about it anymore.

00:23:10.860 So my son, I was at lunch the other day with my youngest son and he said, Hey dad, what

00:23:16.740 is water made of?

00:23:17.820 I'm like, I don't know.

00:23:22.240 And he's like, you don't know.

00:23:23.360 I'm like, no, well, it's made of, I'm like, I don't know.

00:23:26.800 Oh, it's made of hydrogen and oxygen.

00:23:29.900 And he's like, what?

00:23:31.380 And I said, yeah, two parts, hydrogen, one part oxygen, but like, we all know that, but

00:23:36.700 it took me a minute because it's, I don't think about it.

00:23:40.360 I just drink it or swim in it or bathe in it or shower in it.

00:23:44.140 I don't think about what it's made of.

00:23:46.560 And it's the same thing with our lives.

00:23:49.000 We don't spend any time thinking about why we behave that way, why we acted that way.

00:23:55.220 How, what, what was it about that response that got me triggered?

00:24:00.600 And so I don't know what the, the things are.

00:24:04.380 Um, I, I think I had some really limiting beliefs around money for a long time because

00:24:10.600 I grew up in a situation, I wouldn't say poverty, but money was tight and we were strict and

00:24:15.200 money didn't go on, grow on trees and a penny saved is a penny earned.

00:24:18.980 And so it shaped a lot of the way that I looked at money.

00:24:23.000 Um, I had somebody in my life who was very wealthy, very successful businessman, and he 1.00

00:24:28.680 was a complete jerk. 1.00

00:24:30.100 So what did I do? 1.00

00:24:31.980 Equated being a jerk with having lots of money. 0.99

00:24:34.940 Of course, that's the connection a young child would make. 0.99

00:24:37.820 And so I thought if I had a lot of money, then I was a jerk or everybody who had a lot 1.00

00:24:41.760 of money was a jerk. 0.99

00:24:42.820 It's so wild how all this stuff just piles on and we have to rewrite the script every 0.99

00:24:49.680 day, rewrite that programming, upgrade the programming maybe is a better way to say it.

00:24:55.420 Totally.

00:24:56.360 I don't think it's a pun.

00:24:57.820 I think that's a great answer because the reality of it, that's where we fail.

00:25:01.460 It's not so much in the, in like what belief did what it's, are we even self aware to know

00:25:10.820 that a lot of our actions are rooted in these beliefs and agreements that we've made throughout

00:25:16.260 our entire life.

00:25:17.580 Most people aren't even aware enough to challenge the actions or our response to these things.

00:25:23.880 And so it's critical.

00:25:25.700 So I think it's spot on.

00:25:27.120 I don't really have much that come to mind.

00:25:29.520 I mean, there's, we could spend an hour, I think, talking about different belief systems.

00:25:35.180 The one thing I wanted to add for the sake of the question though, Ryan is what's beautiful

00:25:41.820 about our pasts is they're always with us and we can always choose to learn from them.

00:25:50.700 So at any moment, if I didn't learn from my past, I can choose to learn from it today.

00:25:56.040 I could decide that I'm going to grow from that past today.

00:25:59.500 And maybe I've held it and maybe it was a negative response all of my life.

00:26:03.820 And I can change that.

00:26:04.860 That's the beautiful thing about it.

00:26:06.860 So I think being aware of it and then choosing to learn from it.

00:26:11.480 So it's not a waste.

00:26:12.880 And I think that's how we ultimately have a healthy relationship is learning from it,

00:26:16.940 whether it's a good experience or negative experience, learn it to pivot, to grow and to

00:26:22.940 evolve into a better man.

00:26:24.160 And you'll have a healthy relationship with the past, regardless of what it was.

00:26:27.580 Yeah.

00:26:29.960 I would also give one other bit of advice.

00:26:32.800 This is really important guys.

00:26:34.660 And I've, I've taken this advice and it's worked well and I've not taken it and it doesn't go

00:26:38.580 well.

00:26:39.320 So anytime that you get triggered, you need to rewrite the script.

00:26:46.360 You, or at least figure out what's happening.

00:26:49.160 So if you're white, if you come home from work today and your wife says something to you

00:26:53.720 and you get all pissed off and you hear, you feel your blood pressure rising and it's 0.98

00:26:58.840 starting to boil and you're getting mad and you're about to say something dumb, pause, 0.93

00:27:02.060 stop, remove yourself from the environment. 0.96

00:27:06.860 Okay.

00:27:07.220 You might say to her, Hey babe, hold on.

00:27:10.080 You said something that, that bothered me.

00:27:13.300 You can say that, that bothered me, that, that triggers me a little bit.

00:27:16.240 Hold on.

00:27:17.260 Let me just, let me process that for a second.

00:27:20.580 And if you've never done that, she's gonna be like, what the hell?

00:27:22.700 Like she's going to be super confused, but you say, hold on, hold on.

00:27:24.920 Let me just, let me process that.

00:27:26.780 Let's, let's, let me put a pin in that. 1.00

00:27:28.340 Can we just talk about something else?

00:27:29.900 I'll come back to it, but can we just talk about something else?

00:27:32.240 Tell me about your day.

00:27:34.580 She would actually respect that more than you just flipping your lid by the way.

00:27:38.500 And then you think about it.

00:27:40.260 Okay.

00:27:40.540 She said something.

00:27:43.860 I feel, I feel unappreciated.

00:27:46.880 She said, I didn't take out the trash this morning. 1.00

00:27:49.860 And that pissed me off because I spent all day at work, busting my ass. 0.99

00:27:56.400 I had to talk with two pissed off clients. 1.00

00:27:59.380 My boss was up my ass about some dumb thing that wasn't actually my fault. 0.99

00:28:02.980 And the least she could do is just show a little gratitude for me going to work for nine hours. 1.00

00:28:10.280 And fuck, sorry, I forgot to take out the trash. 0.99

00:28:13.300 That might be what you're thinking, right? 0.99

00:28:16.120 Okay.

00:28:16.540 That's, that's how you're feeling.

00:28:18.840 Why do you feel disrespected?

00:28:20.480 What could you talk to her about that?

00:28:22.220 Say, Hey babe, you know, I thought about what you said about the trash.

00:28:25.500 And first I want to say, you're right.

00:28:26.940 I did tell you I'd take out the trash and I will work on that.

00:28:29.780 I will be better at that.

00:28:30.500 But I was upset because I had a really challenging day.

00:28:35.960 And when you said that I felt unappreciated.

00:28:39.760 Now, I don't think you meant it that way.

00:28:42.240 And I know that you appreciate the work that I do, but it's hard for me to go out into battle

00:28:48.620 some days.

00:28:49.440 And this was one of those days.

00:28:50.560 And I felt like that comment just dogpiled onto what I was already feeling.

00:28:54.840 So just want to let you know where I'm coming from.

00:28:57.200 I'll be better on the trash.

00:28:58.160 And just wanted to explain to you how I'm feeling.

00:28:59.600 That is a great way to rewrite the programming and build trust and rapport with somebody you

00:29:03.880 love and care about.

00:29:04.600 And she loves and cares about you.

00:29:05.860 She didn't mean that.

00:29:07.200 She didn't mean she didn't respect or appreciate what you did.

00:29:10.760 She just meant you didn't do the trash.

00:29:12.620 So she had to.

00:29:13.280 It's all she meant by it.

00:29:14.920 But you blew it out of proportion because you tacked it on to everything else that happened

00:29:18.400 throughout the day.

00:29:20.400 Yeah.

00:29:20.760 And you'll feel a hundred percent better having that conversation.

00:29:24.180 And if you didn't have that conversation, then you're stonewalling her all day long.

00:29:29.040 You're pissed off anyway.

00:29:30.560 She gets triggered because you're being mean to her and the kids.

00:29:33.700 And then like, what good was it?

00:29:35.540 Like, dude, just having that conversation is so powerful.

00:29:39.220 And I know whenever I feel, whenever I address and express the upset, it almost just goes

00:29:48.980 away because I feel heard.

00:29:52.120 There's some power in that.

00:29:53.800 And I don't know what it is, but I could do the mental gymnastics in my head.

00:29:58.060 Well, she didn't mean that.

00:29:59.380 And this is, but, and I made that up.

00:30:01.760 So no big deal.

00:30:02.660 I'm still bothered until I express it for whatever reason.

00:30:06.780 So some of you guys, if you find yourself doing the mental gymnastics of like processing

00:30:11.020 it and you're like, but I'm still bothered, communicate it.

00:30:15.260 And that's usually the last step that I rarely do.

00:30:19.360 Like I have to fight myself to do the communication side.

00:30:22.540 And I always feel better when I do.

00:30:25.080 And you know, the other thing too, is the people who are in your life, your wife, your

00:30:28.240 boss, your clients, your kids, they are.

00:30:31.260 When you said, I feel heard, they're going to hear you.

00:30:34.060 She's going to say, oh, babe, I'm so sorry.

00:30:36.720 You're right.

00:30:37.440 I didn't even say thank you.

00:30:39.460 When you walked in the door, I didn't even ask how your day was.

00:30:43.340 I just jumped down your throat and started hand pecking you about the track. 0.91

00:30:46.420 Like that's what she'll say if you do it correctly.

00:30:50.080 And, and there's one other caveat to this is make sure men that you're owning it, that

00:30:55.300 you're owning the feeling.

00:30:56.280 So if you go to your wife and you're like, every time I come home, you do this and you

00:31:01.160 just jump down my throat. 0.81

00:31:02.320 You don't even give me a spare second.

00:31:04.200 And you say these comments that are hurtful and it just pisses me off.

00:31:09.940 There's no ownership.

00:31:11.020 You made me mad.

00:31:12.040 Yeah.

00:31:12.280 There's no ownership in that.

00:31:14.360 Ownership is, hey, babe, look, you're right.

00:31:17.340 I'm sorry.

00:31:18.020 I should have taken out the trash.

00:31:19.260 Okay.

00:31:19.400 There's ownership.

00:31:20.360 I should, I'm sorry.

00:31:21.100 I should have done that.

00:31:21.660 I said, I wouldn't, I didn't, Hey, when you say that I feel this way, it makes me

00:31:27.800 feel that you don't appreciate.

00:31:30.060 It makes me upset because I want to come home to a peaceful environment when I'm out

00:31:35.760 in a combative environment every day.

00:31:38.380 And that is challenging for me.

00:31:41.540 So like you see all the ownership that comes into play when you're having this conversation

00:31:45.420 as opposed to what you did and you didn't do this and you should make me feel this way.

00:31:48.540 It's not how you handle it.

00:31:49.720 Um, yeah, yeah, totally.

00:31:52.720 Bobby, Katie, Ryan and Kip, when you're knee deep in the chaos of leading a team or a family

00:31:59.560 and a big setback hits like a kid melting down or work project tanking, what's the first

00:32:06.100 move you make to flip it into a win?

00:32:08.780 Could you walk us through a real example from your lives where that shift turned things around?

00:32:15.300 Hmm.

00:32:15.740 Um, yeah, let me think about, God, these are good questions.

00:32:19.980 I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to up my game now and start actually looking at

00:32:23.760 the questions ahead of time because there's some deep and thoughtful questions here.

00:32:27.220 I do kind of like just winging it a little bit and just shooting from the hip, but some

00:32:30.720 of these are really deep.

00:32:31.500 Yeah, I think, I think the first step in, in when, when it's hitting the fan is to bring

00:32:38.080 the temperature down.

00:32:39.140 That's, that's the first thing I would say, because if you're feeling a way, then everybody

00:32:43.860 else is feeling it.

00:32:44.900 So the first thing is, Hey guys, again, whether it's a family or business or whoever it is,

00:32:51.220 Hey guys, hold, hold on a sec.

00:32:52.600 Let me just, let me jump in here for a minute.

00:32:55.200 Let, let's all of us, including myself, let's all just take a deep breath for a second.

00:33:00.080 Let's, let's, let's separate, you know, go to your room, go to your office, like go like,

00:33:05.140 like, let's just come back to this in about a half hour.

00:33:08.440 Okay.

00:33:09.180 Right now, everybody's in high emotion, high alert.

00:33:13.120 Everybody's triggered.

00:33:14.100 Nervous systems are firing that this is not catastrophic.

00:33:18.420 So it could be if we don't handle it right.

00:33:21.040 But right now we just need to take a breather for a second and then reconvene.

00:33:26.440 That's step number one.

00:33:28.780 And then step number two is you start to enlist other people.

00:33:33.160 This is not a directive type situation.

00:33:35.720 Now, if it's dire or there's an emergency situation, you might need to be directive,

00:33:39.740 but this is going to be more democratic.

00:33:43.080 I think if it's not, and it's like, all right, we get everybody around the table,

00:33:46.900 whether it's the dinner table or the boardroom table.

00:33:49.320 Hey guys.

00:33:50.020 All right, here's the problem.

00:33:51.800 Here's what happened.

00:33:53.960 We lost a big client today.

00:33:56.960 Represents 15% of our monthly revenue.

00:34:00.980 And we're all freaking out rightfully.

00:34:03.360 So it's okay that we freak out a little bit, but let's, let's dissect the problem.

00:34:09.340 There's a great line in Apollo 13.

00:34:14.180 I can't remember the guy, Ed Harris, I think is his name.

00:34:17.780 Everybody's in the, in the room because the mission has gone catastrophic.

00:34:23.300 And Ed Harris says, all right, settle down.

00:34:26.240 Let's work the problem.

00:34:27.860 And then he goes around the room and he asks all the different departments, Hey, what's

00:34:32.780 the problem on your end?

00:34:33.760 What's the problem on your end?

00:34:35.040 What's the problem on your end?

00:34:36.280 What's the problem on your end?

00:34:37.460 And he gets all of the feedback and all of the information from everybody.

00:34:40.880 And then you can start making informed decisions.

00:34:43.700 So I think that's what you would need to do in your family and also in the business is

00:34:47.540 say, all right, here's the problem.

00:34:49.140 I don't quite know what happened or how it happened.

00:34:51.380 Somebody need, we need to look at this and address this.

00:34:55.020 So finances, tell, tell me where we're at.

00:34:57.960 Okay.

00:34:58.500 My sales and marketing team.

00:34:59.940 What else do we have coming in right now?

00:35:02.080 Okay.

00:35:02.680 Client management.

00:35:03.900 What led to this?

00:35:05.000 What happened here?

00:35:06.120 And you start getting everybody's input.

00:35:08.180 And then I think you start working through some scenarios because everybody's now vested

00:35:12.040 in it and knows that you as the leader aren't freaking out, aren't flipping out, aren't

00:35:16.160 losing your cool because if you do, I promise they will, they're just going to mirror

00:35:20.500 your energy.

00:35:22.560 Yeah, totally.

00:35:23.380 And most of the upset is, is in the emotional response to the expectations of we shouldn't

00:35:29.400 have a setback, right?

00:35:30.680 I'm a huge, I'm a huge believer that setbacks, if not coupled with learning reduces morale.

00:35:40.000 So setbacks have to, they're going to happen, but you need to double down on, this is how

00:35:44.240 we learn.

00:35:45.040 This is what, what do we, what can we learn and grow from this?

00:35:47.800 It's fine.

00:35:48.460 This is how we learn.

00:35:49.500 And this is the growth process.

00:35:51.400 But if it's like, oh, this should have never happened.

00:35:54.220 Trust me that that will allocate, like it'll, it'll move people in the direction of blaming,

00:35:59.520 shaming, and then hiding in the future when setbacks occur.

00:36:02.840 Cause you want to learn from this experience too, that, Hey, when setbacks happen, we handle

00:36:07.160 it correctly.

00:36:07.620 So that way, when they happen again, we go down the right path.

00:36:11.720 We don't hide.

00:36:12.540 We don't communicate things, right?

00:36:14.900 We communicate them openly.

00:36:16.640 Why?

00:36:17.220 Because we handled it correctly last time.

00:36:19.300 But if you take a setback and it's focused on blaming and shaming of who's the wrong person,

00:36:24.880 who's at fault, and let's point the finger.

00:36:27.380 Trust me, the next setback is going to even be worse because you didn't couple it with a

00:36:31.540 learning opportunity.

00:36:32.500 So remember that Bobby, for sure.

00:36:35.380 Well, his part of this question was, do you have a real world example?

00:36:39.340 And I do specifically with the iron council, uh, this was several months ago.

00:36:44.940 One of our team leaders decided to behind our backs, take a big group of the guys that

00:36:52.600 were part of our organization and go start secretly his own organization.

00:36:57.880 There was actually three of them.

00:36:59.440 I think start their own organization and pull all the guys from our organization over to theirs.

00:37:05.860 And the thing about it was an exact competition with the iron council.

00:37:10.940 I just want to call that out, right?

00:37:12.220 Like built off the same platforms as the iron council.

00:37:15.780 Yeah.

00:37:16.840 And I was livid, rightfully so.

00:37:20.360 I had every right to be livid about it.

00:37:23.660 And I think there was quite a few guys who were considering leaving because of this behavior

00:37:30.880 that they were waiting to see how I responded.

00:37:35.600 And I thought they thought that I would flip out, that I lose my cool and, and have a bunch

00:37:42.660 of contention and animosity and throw people under the bus.

00:37:45.060 And I didn't, I mean, I was mad.

00:37:47.820 And again, I think I had the right to be mad, but I didn't lose my cool.

00:37:52.380 And what I did is I sat down with every single one of those guys who would sit down in a group

00:37:57.060 call and I said, all right, guys, hold on, let's figure it out.

00:37:59.540 Let's, let's see what's going on.

00:38:01.640 Here's my position.

00:38:03.220 Here's what I know.

00:38:04.840 I would love to hear what you guys have to say.

00:38:07.160 How are you feeling about it?

00:38:08.320 What's your thoughts?

00:38:09.040 What's your concerns?

00:38:09.920 What would you like to see differently?

00:38:12.160 Man, we had a really, really productive conversation.

00:38:14.980 And I think that organization that decided to behave that way really got hit hard because

00:38:20.360 they thought they would do better than they did because of the way that I responded

00:38:25.320 by involving everybody, by being transparent, by not flipping out and losing my cool, because

00:38:31.300 the alternative would mean for me to just blow up and then repel a bunch of guys anyways.

00:38:36.820 And instead, a lot of them ended up sticking around.

00:38:39.600 So, I mean, this happens all the time, not this specific example, but these types of situations

00:38:45.840 happen all the time and you can compound it and make it worse.

00:38:49.320 Like it's already happening.

00:38:50.160 You can't go back and make it not happen, but you can do the right behaviors at this

00:38:56.860 point moving forward.

00:38:58.120 So, there's an example that happened just in the last four to five months or so.

00:39:03.800 Yeah.

00:39:04.400 Bobby, I'll give you a quick example.

00:39:06.660 Scenario, large, large client implementation project.

00:39:12.900 Project is south.

00:39:14.540 Communication internally on I-team was the client's the problem.

00:39:18.560 They're a difficult client to deal with.

00:39:21.360 They don't like us.

00:39:22.900 It was like drama.

00:39:24.660 Client's problem is we're dropping the ball constantly on our project.

00:39:27.660 I get involved because I had an established relationship with their executive member.

00:39:33.580 So, I wasn't even on the project and they've looped me in to kind of resolve things.

00:39:39.260 My first approach was, team, what's the issue?

00:39:45.240 Internally first.

00:39:46.220 And the minute I heard the client's difficult, then we break it down.

00:39:52.280 I'm like, what do you mean the client's difficult?

00:39:55.940 Well, they don't like us.

00:39:57.180 Okay.

00:39:57.460 Well, why don't they like us?

00:39:59.860 Yeah.

00:40:00.360 Why did they hire us?

00:40:01.820 Right?

00:40:02.020 And I start going deeper and deeper into the issue.

00:40:05.220 And here's the reality.

00:40:06.260 Um, there's no us, right?

00:40:10.520 Like, it's kind of funny.

00:40:11.580 We do this in corporate America a lot.

00:40:13.340 It's like client XYZ doesn't like our tax EIN number logo of our company.

00:40:19.900 No, no, no, no, no, no.

00:40:21.100 The client doesn't have a problem with the company.

00:40:23.220 They have a problem with you.

00:40:25.300 Yeah.

00:40:25.740 Sally, that happens to work for company B doesn't like Fred at our company, period.

00:40:34.700 They don't have a problem with the companies.

00:40:36.620 They have a problem with each other.

00:40:38.180 Why is there a breakdown in our relationship?

00:40:41.020 What's the human behavior?

00:40:42.500 Do they want the project to go south?

00:40:43.960 Of course they don't.

00:40:45.980 So what's the issue?

00:40:48.340 Right.

00:40:48.880 And, and we get down to the learning of it.

00:40:52.080 And what usually always happens in this example is we can, the, the idea that we, we are sideways

00:41:00.140 because we started blaming people and we didn't take ownership over things.

00:41:03.680 And the client didn't feel that we should, we were taking ownership and we were making excuses.

00:41:08.720 And we were, oh, they're a difficult client.

00:41:12.140 And the client felt it.

00:41:14.160 And so my conversation with the client then was, hey, how are things going?

00:41:18.820 How do we, we got it.

00:41:20.800 Projects deal in reality.

00:41:22.180 Projects here.

00:41:23.180 We're late.

00:41:24.180 Here's the scope or whatever.

00:41:25.400 Got it.

00:41:26.040 What can we do moving forward?

00:41:27.660 What makes sense?

00:41:28.620 What would be reasonable?

00:41:29.800 What's a new timeline, right?

00:41:30.960 But be super, super clear on what the pivot is, what we're going to do about it, the action

00:41:37.060 plan, and then make sure that we followed through.

00:41:39.300 Once we got to that, all of a sudden everyone felt better.

00:41:42.520 Why?

00:41:42.680 Because they have hope.

00:41:43.960 There, there's alignment in regards to what the issue is.

00:41:46.640 We know what we're going to do moving forward.

00:41:48.820 And it's accepted by everybody in the group.

00:41:51.140 And we learned from the mistake.

00:41:52.840 So maybe that, I don't, I'm not as good as Ryan is giving you the one, two, three, four,

00:41:58.540 five steps to resolve.

00:42:00.360 But hopefully Bobby, that kind of gives you another element of example, I guess, to your

00:42:04.420 question.

00:42:05.960 All right. 0.99

00:42:06.260 Um, Eric, I'm going to slaughter your name, roll, roll you, we, sorry, that's a tough 0.99

00:42:14.340 one. 0.99

00:42:14.820 All right.

00:42:15.520 At what point enough is enough in a relationship?

00:42:18.480 I'm married 21 years now.

00:42:20.620 And for more than a year, my wife has been harassing me and my son to move to Italy.

00:42:25.740 I'm exhausted.

00:42:26.980 Plus there's more than the move.

00:42:29.500 I don't understand.

00:42:33.260 Like harassing them to move out.

00:42:36.460 Um, I don't, I don't know.

00:42:39.060 I don't.

00:42:40.100 Yeah.

00:42:40.320 That's hard to know.

00:42:41.500 So I guess the way I interpret that is the wife wants to move to Italy, like they all 1.00

00:42:46.980 want all of them moved to Italy, but he doesn't want to, or something that's, that's as far

00:42:52.540 as I can tell.

00:42:54.560 Um, let's just address the first part of the question.

00:42:56.780 At what point is enough enough in a relationship?

00:42:59.700 I don't know.

00:43:00.900 I, I, I can't answer it for you.

00:43:03.380 How could I tell you that?

00:43:06.100 Oh, it's enough.

00:43:06.680 You need to tap out now.

00:43:07.760 I can't, I can give you some, some things to consider.

00:43:11.500 But everybody's different.

00:43:12.860 And the thing that I would consider more than anything else is I want you to fast forward

00:43:17.580 in your life 20 years and looking back at this moment, are you able to look the man in

00:43:26.360 the mirror and say, I did everything I could to make that relationship work.

00:43:32.720 And if in 20 years, fast forwarding in 20 years, you don't think you can answer that question.

00:43:38.500 Then you still have to be in it.

00:43:41.500 You, you made a commitment, just worked left undone.

00:43:44.640 There's work left undone.

00:43:46.300 You, you weren't the man you could have been, um, there, there's potential opportunity, but

00:43:52.400 that's the, that's the underlying question.

00:43:54.840 Did I do everything that I could do?

00:43:57.440 And do you see how that's not contingent on her or anybody else?

00:44:01.100 Did I do everything that I could?

00:44:03.340 The thing about Italy, I don't know the detail, but like based on that, that doesn't seem like

00:44:08.480 enough is enough to me, but there's other things you said.

00:44:10.980 I don't know what those other things are, but you need to sit down.

00:44:15.680 You need to have conversations.

00:44:16.760 You need to set up boundaries.

00:44:19.180 You need to lean into her.

00:44:21.160 You need to lead effectively.

00:44:23.440 You need to encourage her to be part of your journey.

00:44:27.120 This actually goes back to the chase versus pursue thing.

00:44:29.720 You need to lead the way and then leave a gap for her to follow. 0.98

00:44:34.500 Say, Hey babe, this is where I'm going.

00:44:36.300 I want you to come with me.

00:44:37.840 I'm not stopping.

00:44:39.760 I'll slow down.

00:44:41.580 I'm not stopping.

00:44:42.660 I'm not deviating.

00:44:43.760 You're welcome to come with me.

00:44:45.280 Here's the path forward.

00:44:46.240 Here's how we do it together and leave her the opportunity to step into that path.

00:44:50.240 And if she doesn't want to, man, maybe she makes the choice where she's like, I don't

00:44:53.660 want to do that.

00:44:54.120 It's like, okay.

00:44:55.420 It's not that simple.

00:44:56.400 It's not that easy.

00:44:58.420 Emotionally, it'd be devastating.

00:45:00.360 You know, I've had that experience happen throughout my life, but that's how men perform. 0.96

00:45:05.680 Like this is where I'm going.

00:45:07.660 And if you want to come with me and you believe in me and you believe in us, then

00:45:13.040 extend your, you come with me.

00:45:15.540 And if you don't, then you don't have to, but that's your decision to make.

00:45:19.120 But I think enough is enough.

00:45:21.380 After you feel like you can honestly answer the question, I've done everything I could

00:45:25.580 to make that relationship work.

00:45:27.260 By the way, I don't actually feel the same way about every other scenario, but in marriage,

00:45:32.160 I feel that way.

00:45:32.900 Like, yeah, like sometimes you could, you could say, well, I've started this business

00:45:38.800 or I'm working at this company and I would feel completely comfortable walking away, even

00:45:43.880 if I hadn't tried everything else, because I don't owe anybody anything.

00:45:47.980 But when I said I do, and I wanted to be in that long-term committed relationship, then

00:45:54.340 yeah, I need to be able to look myself in the mirror and say, yep, I did everything.

00:45:59.100 That doesn't apply broadly to every situation in my life though.

00:46:02.920 But with marriage, it does.

00:46:05.580 Yeah.

00:46:06.100 I love it.

00:46:07.480 You know, maybe even get clear on the, on the scenario, right?

00:46:11.700 Like, what does it mean?

00:46:13.080 What's the meaning associated in moving to Italy?

00:46:15.160 Like, what is it?

00:46:16.740 Cause it's not Italy, right?

00:46:18.320 It's never the move, right?

00:46:21.680 That is so critical.

00:46:22.760 It's, it's by moving there, she believes what, what's the assumptions?

00:46:27.780 What's the meaning?

00:46:28.600 What does it mean about her?

00:46:29.820 How will she feel?

00:46:30.760 Like you're not addressing, there's no addressing the issue at that surface level.

00:46:36.560 You're really clear on it.

00:46:38.000 And you might find out that you need to move to Italy for that to be possible.

00:46:42.200 Or you might find out that like, oh my gosh, there's an alternative.

00:46:45.160 Plan B that works out really well for me and the boy and addresses her concerns, right?

00:46:52.580 Maybe she wants to move to Italy because she wants to have an amazing marriage with you. 1.00

00:46:55.780 And she's under the impression that that's not possible unless you move to Italy.

00:46:59.900 I don't know.

00:47:00.860 Right.

00:47:01.200 But get really clear on it.

00:47:03.200 Yeah.

00:47:04.380 Agreed.

00:47:05.140 And maybe he, yeah, we don't know.

00:47:06.560 That's cool.

00:47:07.420 Yeah.

00:47:07.740 So maybe you have, but if not get after it.

00:47:10.120 All right, let's take a couple more, Kip.

00:47:11.460 Yeah.

00:47:11.720 Those are all the questions in the Iron Council.

00:47:15.280 Did you post, I should have clarified this.

00:47:17.480 Do you post on Facebook as well?

00:47:19.020 By the way, guys, this is our Facebook group.

00:47:21.160 So if you want to band with 74,000 other men and get really good feedback. 0.96

00:47:26.860 So I should say this, some really good feedback and 10% bull crap.

00:47:30.860 Then join a Facebook group at facebook.com slash group slash order of men. 0.98

00:47:38.480 The bull crap gets sifted out and everybody calls them out for the most part. 0.97

00:47:41.760 And it moves. 0.99

00:47:42.820 There are some touchy points.

00:47:44.460 Like there's some natural accountability that happens.

00:47:46.660 Bro, the, the marriage thing's interesting. 0.99

00:47:48.740 Like a guy could be like, Hey, I came home and my wife was acting like a jerk to me. 1.00

00:47:53.480 And she just said some rude things. 1.00

00:47:56.180 And guys would be like, dump her, bro.

00:47:58.120 Oh, don't walk, run away.

00:47:59.780 I'm like, whoa, hold up.

00:48:03.560 Like let's get to the root first here.

00:48:06.520 Or another one that's always controversial is pornography.

00:48:09.320 You know, and guys are like, no, it helps.

00:48:11.280 It's good.

00:48:11.860 It's like helps your sex life.

00:48:13.640 And it's like, what, what information are you operating under?

00:48:19.340 It's wild.

00:48:20.360 So yeah, you do have to sift through some of it, but it's at facebook.com slash group

00:48:23.840 slash order of men.

00:48:24.500 Join us if you want to be informed and also if you want to be entertained.

00:48:29.940 Absolutely.

00:48:30.580 I love that.

00:48:31.400 All right.

00:48:31.620 Justin Herzl.

00:48:32.660 Good question here, man.

00:48:34.120 I might get too fired up on this one.

00:48:36.100 What are the real risks of AI becoming invent, invent, invent, inventable?

00:48:42.000 What are the risks of ignoring it?

00:48:44.380 Yeah.

00:48:44.840 Sorry.

00:48:45.420 And how can men leverage its power effectively and ethically?

00:48:49.660 What are the risks of ignoring it and how do we leverage, leverage, leverage its power

00:48:56.120 effectively?

00:48:57.360 Oh, the risks of ignore it.

00:48:59.920 So, okay.

00:49:01.200 There's a couple of different ways I could take that.

00:49:03.180 Like, are you going to be left in the dust if you ignore it?

00:49:05.500 Yeah, absolutely.

00:49:06.920 If you don't incorporate it into your life in some meaningful and significant way, you

00:49:10.840 will get left in the dust.

00:49:11.940 You'll lose your job.

00:49:13.100 You lose your livelihood.

00:49:14.920 You won't have access to as many opportunities.

00:49:18.140 You'll be super inefficient relative to other people.

00:49:20.700 And so you will get left in the dust.

00:49:22.280 I promise.

00:49:23.660 This has happened throughout human history and everybody wants to slow progress down because

00:49:28.060 it puts people at risk, especially those who might lose jobs and that sort of thing.

00:49:32.920 You know what?

00:49:34.120 As the saying was several years ago, learn to code.

00:49:37.440 Telling truck drivers, learn to code.

00:49:39.080 You better do it.

00:49:40.400 And you better stay awake.

00:49:42.040 And you better stay on top of it.

00:49:43.440 Otherwise, you will get left in the dust and you will hurt yourself and you will put your

00:49:46.980 livelihood and your family's survival at risk.

00:49:49.280 It's that dire if you don't pay attention to it.

00:49:52.120 This is the biggest thing since the internet.

00:49:56.260 So make sure you're doing that.

00:49:57.780 On the other side, the risk is that we just become mindless, soulless meat sacks that have

00:50:10.440 no purpose and meaning in life and let robots and technology do all of our stuff for us.

00:50:16.860 I think, I don't know if it was Elon Musk or somebody was saying that there would come

00:50:22.540 a point in time where you would not have to work.

00:50:25.380 I would say that that probably is true, but your standard of living is going to be greatly

00:50:32.200 diminished.

00:50:32.860 If that were the case, your bare necessities would be met.

00:50:36.400 And then there would be those who excel and use AI in a positive and constructive way and

00:50:41.100 continue to create jobs and meaning and purpose and direction and clarity and drive.

00:50:46.560 So I think it's really powerful if you use it correctly.

00:50:49.240 So what I would do and what I do actually is that I use AI as a leveraging tool.

00:50:56.460 So instead of creating every single image by hand, I can put in some prompts and have

00:51:01.060 images created and Instagram information put together.

00:51:04.600 And it's very precise.

00:51:06.360 I could do a research on a research on a particular topic and within a matter of seconds have as

00:51:13.120 much information that could have taken me months, if not years to gather in writing my first

00:51:18.280 book.

00:51:19.000 Now, should I write my book with AI?

00:51:21.540 You can't because you can't write a book, write a book if AI wrote it for you.

00:51:28.100 So that's where we need to be very aware is like, okay, here's my book I'm putting out.

00:51:33.440 Wait, is that your book or is that AI's book?

00:51:35.680 Because there's a difference.

00:51:37.200 So we, we as humans still need to be creative.

00:51:40.380 We still need to have souls and fulfillment and purpose and meaning, and then we can use

00:51:46.340 the tool of AI to, to build it.

00:51:51.360 I think about this in the construction industry.

00:51:54.780 You see a bunch of these track homes popping up in Southern Utah everywhere, and they're 1.00

00:51:58.680 just soulless.

00:52:01.600 They're just lifeless.

00:52:02.960 I asked somebody the other day, they're having a home built.

00:52:04.980 I said, oh, what will it be done in like six months?

00:52:06.820 They're like, no, it's eight weeks, maybe 10 weeks.

00:52:10.920 I'm like 10 weeks.

00:52:13.040 Yeah, it's, it's going to be built in 10 weeks.

00:52:17.620 I didn't, I don't look at that as a positive.

00:52:21.580 Like I'm sure it's, I'm sure it'll stay up.

00:52:24.800 I'm sure it's stronger than houses that are built 30 years ago, but you walk into them

00:52:28.400 and they look like these like soulless museums.

00:52:31.300 They're just stacked on top of each other.

00:52:33.420 They're bumped right up next to everybody else.

00:52:35.400 And I'm like, where's the soul?

00:52:37.680 Where's the, where's the significance?

00:52:39.420 Where's the heart?

00:52:40.200 Where's the creativity?

00:52:41.240 Where's the, the, the weirdness and the little quirks of the home that they, that used to

00:52:45.660 be, I don't, I don't think that stuff's good.

00:52:49.300 I want to keep the soul of humans in every aspect of our lives and we can use AI to do

00:52:55.420 it, but if we let it get too far, it'll be a problem.

00:52:59.340 Yeah.

00:53:00.180 Yeah.

00:53:00.500 I don't disagree with anything that you've said.

00:53:02.460 I think Justin here's, here's, let me point out where I think we're going wrong.

00:53:08.200 The first thing that we've done wrong is call it artificial intelligence.

00:53:13.300 We might as well called it magic and then had a bunch of tech companies promote this

00:53:18.700 idea of magic.

00:53:19.900 And everybody that doesn't understand technology is like, well, it's magic.

00:53:24.460 It can just do anything.

00:53:25.840 And so we have this massive misunderstanding due to the labeling of what we chose to call

00:53:32.140 this technology.

00:53:32.800 And that just makes me irate.

00:53:35.080 It's not intelligent.

00:53:36.520 It's not intelligent at all.

00:53:38.660 And you hop on the web and you'll find everybody's on this AI train telling us like, even last

00:53:45.560 week, I saw something about AI created its own religion.

00:53:48.900 No, no, no.

00:53:49.560 Stop.

00:53:50.160 Someone gave it a prompt and said, create a religion based upon blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:53:57.100 And it came up with something based upon what?

00:54:00.340 Trending information in a data set that is scrubbed on the internet.

00:54:03.800 By the way, chat GBT as an example, 40% of its data comes from where?

00:54:10.380 Reddit.

00:54:11.720 Then 20% from Wikipedia.

00:54:14.540 Oh, it's a valid source.

00:54:16.240 It's into, no, trust me.

00:54:17.880 It's only as good as the data, junk in, junk out, right?

00:54:21.520 And so we need to really understand it's not intelligent.

00:54:25.800 Now, is it powerful?

00:54:27.660 Absolutely.

00:54:28.600 But understand what it's powerful with.

00:54:31.200 And this is a transcendent principle, right?

00:54:33.980 As our economies change, as markets change, as industries change, we should be evolving,

00:54:40.340 right?

00:54:40.760 We should be evolving and growing and taking advantage of things.

00:54:44.620 AI is no different than that.

00:54:46.100 But it's very similar to the dot-com boom, in my opinion, right?

00:54:50.900 Back then it was like, build a website and all of a sudden you'll make millions of dollars

00:54:55.220 because people will just randomly start shopping on your website.

00:54:58.580 Well, guess what the percentage of AI project failures are?

00:55:02.780 It's over 80%.

00:55:04.160 80% of AI projects in companies are complete failures.

00:55:09.040 Why?

00:55:09.600 Because of what I just said.

00:55:11.320 They misunderstand what the technology is and what it's great for.

00:55:16.240 And you end up with a bunch of CEOs reading magazines about AI and they see it as this magic

00:55:22.680 pill that just like will do stuff for you.

00:55:25.720 No.

00:55:26.720 It has its place.

00:55:27.980 It has key areas that are great.

00:55:29.860 And to be honest with you, there's a bunch of smoke and mirrors. 0.99

00:55:33.460 There's a bunch of crap, right? 0.99

00:55:36.120 Microsoft's co-pilot. 0.99

00:55:37.120 Maybe I shouldn't say this out.

00:55:38.460 You know, it's recorded.

00:55:39.380 It is what it is.

00:55:40.140 Microsoft co-pilot. 1.00

00:55:41.000 It's junk. 1.00

00:55:42.740 It's a waste. 1.00

00:55:44.500 But Microsoft will jam it down to everyone's throat so they can justify the investment

00:55:48.660 that they're making on infrastructure in hopes that it will pay off.

00:55:52.760 Meanwhile, everyone's trying to figure out how to use it, right?

00:55:55.880 There's absolutely a race happening in regards to who's going to win the AI race, what AI

00:56:01.480 engines will stick around long-term.

00:56:03.340 But a lot of it is on borrowed money, right?

00:56:06.480 The technology is great, but it's on borrowed money.

00:56:08.940 And we'll see how this all pans out.

00:56:10.960 So understand it.

00:56:12.440 Be real about it.

00:56:14.220 And the last counsel I would give, because I've been in tech, right?

00:56:18.200 I've been a software engineer for years, engineer, an architect around technology for

00:56:23.620 20 plus years.

00:56:24.540 This is my bread and butter.

00:56:26.320 I had a CEO two years ago.

00:56:27.860 He calls me up and goes, Kip, man, we need to implement AI.

00:56:30.760 Is your team ready?

00:56:31.580 And I'm like, Jay, implement it for what?

00:56:35.320 And he goes, well, I just need it. 0.96

00:56:38.340 I'm like, you're being silly. 0.99

00:56:40.480 I told him that. 1.00

00:56:41.280 You're being silly. 0.96

00:56:42.380 You want me to implement tech for tech's sake. 0.98

00:56:45.140 You don't even have a problem?

00:56:47.200 Well, I just need to use it.

00:56:48.760 I'm like, no, that doesn't work that way, man.

00:56:50.920 And by the way, you might come with the business problem.

00:56:53.280 I might look at it and it might tell you that AI is not the right solution.

00:56:57.940 So be careful.

00:56:59.360 Understand what it does well, but implement it to solve problems.

00:57:02.760 Don't implement for the sake of implementing it.

00:57:05.220 Otherwise, we'll find ourselves doing tech that doesn't provide value, isn't truly addressing

00:57:10.960 the issue.

00:57:11.700 And we just get to wear our little badge of saying, oh, we're utilizing AI, but it's

00:57:15.880 worthless.

00:57:16.740 Yeah.

00:57:17.140 Sorry, a little bit of a rant, but man, it just makes me frustrated.

00:57:21.700 You said something interesting.

00:57:22.940 You said borrowed money.

00:57:23.960 I use a different term.

00:57:25.000 It's incestual money. 1.00

00:57:26.480 It's these companies that are in tech that will pay other tech companies billions and

00:57:31.760 billions of dollars to produce AI.

00:57:33.980 And then that AI then goes to those tech companies.

00:57:37.300 The technology then goes to those tech companies.

00:57:40.560 And so they're just, it's just like incestual.

00:57:43.000 And so we see these big rises in the market and it's not true diversification and it's

00:57:47.880 not true collaboration.

00:57:49.780 It's like, I'm going to pay this company to do this thing.

00:57:52.340 They're going to build this thing and then they're going to give it back to me.

00:57:54.280 That's fine when it comes to buying consumer services, products, and goods.

00:57:59.300 But when it comes to investing, it artificially inflates the market, which gets people to believe

00:58:05.440 that this is a bigger thing than it actually is.

00:58:07.460 Essentially, they have an AI department that they're giving money to outside of their in-house

00:58:13.860 stuff.

00:58:14.220 It's very fascinating.

00:58:15.720 And it could come tumbling down when people realize, oh, we weren't diversified.

00:58:22.080 I mean, you've seen it.

00:58:23.580 The housing market, the tech boom, like it happens over the, what was it?

00:58:28.180 Poppy seed market years and like hundreds of years ago.

00:58:31.340 Like you see it all the time.

00:58:33.100 It happens all the time and people still don't wake up to it.

00:58:36.560 All right, man, let's take one more.

00:58:38.800 Yeah, just, yeah, just be aware, deal in reality, be clear on where it can provide value.

00:58:46.660 All right, nobody 7787. 0.99

00:58:49.600 What's the one piece of advice you'd offer a man who recently found out his wife was

00:58:54.040 planning on surprising him with a divorce and immediately moving out of state with the

00:58:58.720 kids trying to get full custody?

00:59:00.900 Oh yeah, lawyer up.

00:59:03.500 And don't show your hand.

00:59:04.800 Like if you, if you really think that's what's happening, like you really think I would not,

00:59:11.020 I would not approach her about it because if you do, then you're just giving away your

00:59:15.400 element of surprise.

00:59:18.140 Don't, don't talk to her about it.

00:59:19.840 Don't approach her.

00:59:20.840 Don't say, I'm going to do this or I'm going to do that.

00:59:22.480 Don't do any of that.

00:59:23.240 If she's planning this exodus and I don't know how you found out or if you're acting

00:59:28.520 on, on good data or not, but an attorney will help you with that.

00:59:32.580 You have rights.

00:59:34.060 You, you should protect yourself.

00:59:35.960 You should protect your fatherhood rights.

00:59:37.480 You should protect your children and you should protect your assets.

00:59:39.960 If she wants to play the game, bring it on.

00:59:43.460 Let's play the game.

00:59:44.860 But don't you dare.

00:59:46.180 Do not.

00:59:46.740 I'm telling you right now.

00:59:48.660 Do not give away your element of surprise.

00:59:51.760 Don't do it.

00:59:52.500 You're going to be tempted to.

00:59:54.300 You're going to want, like, she's going to say something and it's going to trigger you.

00:59:57.200 You'd be like, well, actually I just hired a lawyer last.

00:59:59.420 Don't, don't do it. 0.98

01:00:01.300 Keep your mouth shut.

01:00:05.080 Okay. 0.96

01:00:05.520 That's the first rule when it comes to hiring an attorney, you keep your mouth shut.

01:00:09.840 And I'll be passionate on this one.

01:00:11.240 Be quiet.

01:00:12.920 Talk to your attorney and do what he says.

01:00:16.760 Period.

01:00:19.800 Yeah.

01:00:20.480 And fight for that custody of those kids.

01:00:22.240 Do not give that up whatsoever.

01:00:23.880 With, with your attorney, not with her.

01:00:26.620 Yeah.

01:00:27.060 I'm saying that I want to be very, very, don't fight with it.

01:00:30.220 Well, I want the kid.

01:00:31.300 Nope.

01:00:32.100 She, look, Dave Ramsey said this.

01:00:34.520 I listened to him say this years ago.

01:00:35.640 He said, and he's an advocate of marriage.

01:00:37.220 He said, Hey, once that marriage is over, it's a business contract now.

01:00:41.020 That's all it is.

01:00:42.060 It's a, it's a dissolving business.

01:00:44.120 So you treat it like one.

01:00:45.300 You got to strip the emotion away.

01:00:47.000 You got to hire your, your advisors.

01:00:49.260 In this case, an attorney, and you got to prepare to go to battle.

01:00:52.860 We do a divorce, not death course.

01:00:54.460 In fact, we're doing a preview call tonight at 8 PM Eastern.

01:00:58.340 So it like for you or for anybody else who is in the process of a divorce or divorce up

01:01:04.880 to 12 months, um, then join us on the preview call.

01:01:09.020 And I'm going to pull back the curtain about the eight modules that we go through over the

01:01:12.240 course of eight weeks, uh, from new, new, you new roles to how to communicate effectively with her

01:01:19.720 to hiring your legal team to, um, now raising your kids as a single father to dealing with

01:01:25.740 your finances and your assets to at some point, eventually being back in the dating pool.

01:01:30.560 So that's tonight.

01:01:31.520 If you go to divorce, not death.com, you can get registered for the preview call tonight,

01:01:36.740 February 18th at 8 PM Eastern.

01:01:38.720 And that'll be for an hour, but you should definitely be on that call.

01:01:41.760 And so should anybody else going through a divorce right now.

01:01:45.560 All right.

01:01:47.400 Lighter question, Roger, when was the last time you've laughed so hard that you cried?

01:01:54.960 Oh, I don't, I don't know.

01:01:56.700 I don't do that.

01:01:59.520 I don't, I don't know.

01:02:01.660 I laugh.

01:02:02.580 I laugh every day.

01:02:03.480 I don't know.

01:02:04.120 When's the last time I laughed until I cried.

01:02:06.300 Like I, these kinds of questions are hard for me.

01:02:08.480 Cause it's like, I don't know.

01:02:09.420 I didn't, I haven't thought about, I don't think about that.

01:02:11.820 If I laugh, I laugh.

01:02:12.720 If I don't, I don't, then I just drive on.

01:02:14.400 Do you have a, do you have a moment that you can remember?

01:02:17.540 Um, I do just because it happened like last week.

01:02:20.960 That's the reason, but I was thinking about it.

01:02:22.820 I'm like, if that didn't happen last week, I'd be responding in the same way.

01:02:25.800 I'd be like, uh, I don't know.

01:02:27.000 And the irony was it's, I don't know.

01:02:30.800 It's weird.

01:02:31.640 I'm weird.

01:02:32.960 I was messing around with something.

01:02:34.960 I started laughing.

01:02:35.820 I was really tired.

01:02:37.240 My daughter starts like laughing uncontrollably, which then made me laugh. 1.00

01:02:41.540 And then I couldn't stop laughing.

01:02:42.840 And then we just had this like laugh it thing. 1.00

01:02:45.240 My wife's like, you guys are idiots. 1.00

01:02:47.220 And I couldn't stop. 1.00

01:02:49.460 It was weird, but I think it was mostly cause I was tired.

01:02:51.840 When I'm tired, I get real loopy.

01:02:53.640 Yeah.

01:02:53.880 So I think it's, it, for me, it'd be like when I'm with my friends, like we've, we've

01:02:58.440 been on hunting trips together, Kip, and like silly things happen.

01:03:01.600 Weird things happen.

01:03:03.040 I remember when I shot the tail off of a deer one time, like literally just shot it right

01:03:08.140 at the nub, like just shot the tail perfectly off.

01:03:11.900 And me and my buddies were laughing hysterically about a deer running around on the island of

01:03:16.720 Molokai with a sunburned butthole, you know, and it's like, yeah, stuff like that.

01:03:23.400 I don't know.

01:03:23.960 I like to have a deer.

01:03:24.740 Or your, or your only Fonz website.

01:03:27.840 Yeah.

01:03:28.860 Exactly.

01:03:29.520 Yeah.

01:03:30.480 Hunting that.

01:03:31.260 And that's, look, that's part of the reason too.

01:03:33.240 You need to have good friends.

01:03:34.240 And so you can laugh, like you don't have to take it so seriously.

01:03:36.600 And both Kip, you and I are both serious people.

01:03:39.220 So I think we need it more than, than other people might.

01:03:43.680 Absolutely.

01:03:44.200 I do.

01:03:45.040 Absolutely.

01:03:45.660 All right, brother.

01:03:46.560 Well, that's a wrap.

01:03:47.920 You know, as always, I mean, we already, we already did a call to action on divorce, not

01:03:52.500 death as well, the iron council and order of man, I really last thing, you know, reach

01:03:56.680 out to Ryan, connect on socials at Ryan Mickler, both X and Instagram, uh, and just

01:04:01.700 band with us and go ahead and check out YouTube, uh, while you're there.

01:04:05.880 Sounds good guys.

01:04:07.040 Appreciate you.

01:04:07.760 We will be back on Friday until then go out there, take action and become the man.

01:04:11.500 You are meant to be.

01:04:13.260 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:04:16.100 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man.

01:04:19.000 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - February 18, 2026

Chase Vs. Pursue, Re-Writing Your Scripts, and Leading with Clarity ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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