Order of Man - Chasing Down Your Fears

00:00:00.000 Each and every one of us deals with fear. And most of us are either consciously or subconsciously

00:00:04.720 running away from what we fear most. That's unfortunate considering that what lies beyond

00:00:10.140 the fear that keeps us back is what we desire most in our lives, fulfillment and satisfaction

00:00:15.360 and purpose. Today, I'm joined by big wave surfer, Archer and father Shane Dorian to talk about how

00:00:21.780 to manage fear and use it as fuel to do great things in our lives. We talk about the power

00:00:26.900 of proximity, why mentorship, even if it's informal, uh, is so crucial. The necessity

00:00:32.540 of evolution, uh, the concept of progressive exposure to the things that scare us, loving

00:00:38.160 the challenge and ultimately how to chase down our fears. You're a man of action. You live

00:00:42.600 life to the fullest, embrace your fears and boldly charge your own path. When life knocks

00:00:47.300 you down, you get back up one more time. Every time you are not easily deterred, defeated,

00:00:52.980 rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will

00:00:59.600 become at the end of the day. And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:05.680 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler. I'm the host and the founder

00:01:09.500 of the order of man podcast and movement. Welcome here and welcome back. We have got a lot to talk

00:01:14.180 about today and a lot to cover. Uh, I've got a very good one lined up for you today. Like

00:01:17.940 I do every single week. Uh, the men that we've had on over the past several months now

00:01:22.160 are absolutely incredible. And I know that it's resonating with you because I'm getting

00:01:27.120 hundreds, if not thousands of messages at this point, every single week, uh, letting me know

00:01:32.500 that the conversations we're having are impacting you in a positive way. And that's initially why I

00:01:37.200 set out to do this podcast and this movement is to give you the tools and resources and guidance

00:01:42.280 and direction. Uh, and not just you, but me too, that we need to thrive as fathers and husbands

00:01:47.460 and leaders in our community and business owners. And if it's not evident to you at this point,

00:01:53.620 uh, that more bold, strong, competent, courageous men are needed, then I don't know what it's

00:02:00.640 going to take. So this is a movement to help you step up the way that you want to step up

00:02:06.480 and the way that the people around you need you to step up. So this one's going to be a good

00:02:10.780 one. It's all about fear. Uh, we're, we're talking with a friend of mine. I'm going to

00:02:14.700 introduce Shane here in a minute. If you don't know, already know who he is, but before I

00:02:18.320 do, I just want to make a quick mention, uh, of our friends and show sponsors origin, Maine,

00:02:23.440 as you know, Christmas is coming up. If you want to get some Christmas shopping done, there's

00:02:27.620 two great places. One is the order of man store. And the other is the origin store. Uh, if you're

00:02:32.800 looking for denim or boots, the boots make a great gift, by the way, I've got the, uh, the

00:02:38.060 bison boots. They're phenomenal. They're absolutely phenomenal. And I, I had the benefit of a year

00:02:45.540 and a half or two years ago, making my own pair of boots. If you're interested in that

00:02:49.480 process, you can go over to our YouTube channel, uh, and check out the video that we did for

00:02:53.300 that. But, uh, yeah, if they got the boots, they've got the denim, they've got supplements

00:02:57.300 that's a Jocko fuel. So they've got discipline and joint warfare, which is what I take to

00:03:02.220 ale, these nagging fingers and elbows from jujitsu, but they've got it all. Go check it

00:03:07.940 out. Origin, Maine as in the state, Maine origin, Maine.com. And if you're picking anything up,

00:03:13.840 use the code order, O R D E R at checkout. So you can get your discount and save some money

00:03:19.160 again, origin, Maine, use the code order at checkout. All right, guys, let me introduce

00:03:23.900 you to Shane. If you don't already know who he is. Uh, he's somebody who's well known for

00:03:28.080 his ability to ride huge wave, but, uh, what he's accomplished in his life goes much deeper

00:03:34.060 than just surfing. Uh, I met Shane earlier this year, we were hunting in Arizona. I was

00:03:39.100 immediately drawn to his calm and his confident presence, considering what I knew about what

00:03:46.440 he's been able to accomplish in his life. He's a family man. First, we talk a lot about that

00:03:49.880 on today's podcast. Again, he's a big wave surfer. He's an inventor. We actually cover that

00:03:54.080 as well. Uh, he's an avid bow hunter and he's also just an incredible human being who's faced

00:03:59.720 life and death situations in the ocean. He's built a successful career on the back of a

00:04:04.140 surfboard, which is not an easy feat. Uh, and of course he's a leader of his family as a devoted

00:04:10.360 husband and father. So guys, you're going to enjoy this one. Sit back and, uh, enjoy the

00:04:15.240 conversation with Shane and I. Shane, what's up, man? Good to see you again. It's been, it's

00:04:20.220 probably been close to a year at this point, I think since our last hunt together.

00:04:22.840 Yeah. Ryan, good to see you too. Thanks for having me on the show. I appreciate it. Yeah.

00:04:27.160 It's, it's, uh, it's been almost a year now. Are you going back to Arizona in January?

00:04:33.240 I don't think I am. No. Yeah. I don't think I am this year. I wish, uh, I kind of have a

00:04:38.520 lot of, a lot of stuff happening this, this January. I'm trying to take my, my family on

00:04:43.240 a, on a, uh, on a snowboarding trip. Um, and then I also might have to do some coaching

00:04:50.740 as well. Like for, um, there's a big surfing event at sunset beach on the shore in January

00:04:56.640 and I might have to coach one of the athletes.

00:04:59.400 So you do, uh, do you do individual coaching or how does that work? I mean, you're, people

00:05:04.160 are hiring you. Surfers are hiring you to coach them. Is that, is that what's going on?

00:05:08.740 Yeah. I mean, I don't really think of myself as a coach at all. Um, but I, I've been coaching

00:05:16.340 a little bit in the last couple of years. Uh, last year I coached a guy named Italo Ferreira.

00:05:22.100 He, um, I coached him at the pipeline masters here on the North shore in Hawaii. And he was

00:05:28.500 going for the world title at the time. He ended up, um, doing really well in the event. He won,

00:05:34.200 um, he won the world title last year and it was, it was incredible. And, and, and he won the event

00:05:39.000 as well. So I'll be coaching him this year again at the pipe masters. And then he wants me to also,

00:05:43.220 uh, work with him for the sunset event in January. What type of, uh, like, what does that actually

00:05:49.660 look like? Cause when I think of it, and so this is my ignorance speaking when I think of it, I'm

00:05:54.280 like, okay, well, like, are you teaching him balance? Are you teaching him to read the wave?

00:05:57.940 Like, what is it exactly? Like, I don't know what you'd be coaching him on. I'm really curious.

00:06:02.900 It's more just a game plan. Like, uh, in a competitive situation, it's more of a,

00:06:08.000 you know, what, you know, watching the surf, watching the conditions, um, you know,

00:06:12.540 watching all the previous heats and who's winning and how they're doing it, who's losing and why

00:06:17.480 that's happening. And just try and formulate a game plan and, and keep the athlete in a good

00:06:22.820 mindset. Um, you know, super confident and, and, you know, erasing all the noise and focusing on

00:06:29.520 what needs to happen in that timeframe. You know, when you're, when you're, when you're competing,

00:06:34.160 you get really emotional, you know, you get excited or worried or anxious or whatever it is.

00:06:39.020 And I feel like as a coach, um, you know, someone who's a really good coach is going to just keep

00:06:43.660 you in a really solid mindset and keep what's really important at the front of your mind.

00:06:49.300 Got it. Yeah. That makes sense. So it's more of the soft skills than the actual

00:06:52.640 skill of surfing. Cause I mean, this is a guy who's probably been surfing for

00:06:56.400 three or four decades. So it's like, what are you going to teach him, right? That he doesn't

00:06:59.840 already know or hasn't experienced.

00:07:01.340 Yeah. There, there, there is nothing I know about surfing technique that he doesn't.

00:07:07.560 That's what I'm saying. He's a, I, I, I would, I'd kill to be able to do the things that he can

00:07:12.160 do on a surfboard. I mean, he's, he's one of the greatest surfers of all time. So it's just fun

00:07:16.820 to work with him because he's a, he's a student of the game. He wants to get better all the time.

00:07:20.920 He's, he's actively training and practicing and surfing as much as he possibly can. So it's fun to

00:07:26.280 work with a guy like that. It's, it's infectious, that energy level. Um, you know, he's just

00:07:30.980 incredibly passionate about what he does and, and it's, it's a lot of fun. So I don't really

00:07:35.380 see myself as a coach, but if I can help, help people to do a little better, it's a good thing.

00:07:40.860 Do you enjoy that side of it? I mean, I imagine there's a side of just writing, for example,

00:07:46.120 and then there's this whole other aspect that goes on behind the scenes that the average

00:07:50.560 individual just doesn't see or appreciate. Yeah. I mean, I've, you know, I mean, I, I started

00:07:58.180 surfing when I was, I mean, I, I learned to swim when I was like two and then I started

00:08:04.100 riding waves when I was three and I started surfing on a surfboard when I was five. And

00:08:09.320 so it's really all I've ever known in my life. So I I'm still wildly in love with surfing and

00:08:16.540 it's, it's a huge part of my life. You know, I mean, it's, it's really given me pretty much

00:08:21.100 everything I have at this point. It's, it's how I met my wife. It's how I make a living. It's,

00:08:27.240 it's what I do with my kids to share time. Um, it's what we do for family trips. And so,

00:08:34.560 I mean, it really encompasses a lot of like a huge portion of my life and, and it's a really

00:08:40.220 positive thing for me. So, you know, now, now I'm getting a bit older, I'm 48. And so I've

00:08:45.460 been surfing professionally for a very long time. And now it's really fun for me to start working

00:08:50.360 with like the jet with like some kids, some up to coming kids, the next generation. And

00:08:55.160 um, yeah, it's just a lot of fun to just to, to help them along their path.

00:09:00.360 I'm curious what you think about as you talk, cause I see you with, do you have three boys?

00:09:06.040 Do you have, I have two kids. I have a, I have a boy who just turned 14 and I have a girl

00:09:11.420 who just turned 11.

00:09:13.040 And so both of them surf.

00:09:17.820 Yep. They both surf. My, my,

00:09:19.900 my son is very into it. He, he's pretty much all he thinks about, all he wants to do.

00:09:27.200 All right.

00:09:28.060 And he's starting to become like competitive and stuff and getting sponsors and all that.

00:09:31.860 And then my daughter loves to surf. She surfs with me and she's more of like a social surfer.

00:09:37.340 So she surfs with me and, and then, or she'll surf with her buddies. So she just goes out there

00:09:41.840 and chats with all like her little girlfriends and stuff. It's pretty funny.

00:09:44.440 Yeah. That's cool to see. So do you see, it's interesting to me because when we're in the

00:09:50.080 midst of things, I think we think that, that, uh, you know, we're at the pinnacle of our

00:09:53.960 achievement, whether it's surfing or hunting or podcasting or any facet of life or something

00:09:59.620 that we're interested in. I'd be really curious what you see is the evolution of surfing and how

00:10:03.740 not only your children, but the other young kids that you are coaching and teaching and instructing

00:10:09.040 what you think they'll be able to do for the sport itself that maybe you and your generation

00:10:14.700 hasn't accomplished. Yeah. I mean, I mean, a sport of surfing is, is pretty darn young as far as like

00:10:23.240 competitive surfing goes, you know, it's really only since like the, maybe the seventies and really

00:10:28.520 more like the eighties and it's become like a professional sport. And now it's in the Olympics

00:10:33.400 and, um, you know, you know, mainstream, you know, corporations are coming into the space

00:10:40.160 and there's, there's a lot of money flowing into it. Um, so it's just grown a ton and things

00:10:46.340 have gotten more serious as far as all that business side of things goes. But, um, I mean,

00:10:52.160 at the heart of it, people, people fall in love with surfing because it's fun. It keeps you

00:10:56.260 young, keeps you sane. Uh, it's great exercise. It's just, it's just a really, really, really

00:11:02.160 fun thing to do. So, um, yeah, I mean, it's, it's just been a really, really good part of,

00:11:08.260 um, you know, my life and for the kids that I work with, it's, it's just a really healthy,

00:11:13.860 healthy thing for them to do, you know, all the time. So, um, yeah, I'm pretty grateful in that

00:11:18.500 respect. Yeah. I mean, I think it's cool to be able to see not only yourself, but your kids and

00:11:23.080 the people you coach have, have this outlet. Cause it seems to me, and I look at my own kids,

00:11:27.760 I've got four kids and I see so many different outlets that they could take that are not healthy

00:11:31.860 for them. Right. Like whether it's, it's drug abuse or alcohol abuse, or just buying into the

00:11:38.800 misconceptions they hear from their peers. And I think about this outlet for, for us, it happens

00:11:43.200 to be hunting specifically with my oldest son. And that's something that's relatively new to me,

00:11:47.640 but I see a lot of similarities between what you're doing with, with your kids and what I'm doing

00:11:52.760 with my kids in different aspects, but just being able to channel that energy towards something

00:11:57.680 that's going to improve them physically and mentally and emotionally is, is really, really

00:12:02.960 rewarding to watch and experience. Yeah. I mean, there's, there's a lot of distractions these

00:12:10.240 days for kids, you know, probably more than ever, you know, you know, when I was, when I was

00:12:14.740 growing up, I'm sure when you were growing up, you know, life was a whole lot simpler than

00:12:20.140 there, there was no internet, like the, you know, like the, like the video game thing was,

00:12:27.580 was hardly a thing when I was a kid, you know, there was, there was, there was friends I knew

00:12:32.120 had video game consoles, whatever, in their, in their house and they would get super into

00:12:36.360 it. But hardly anybody had those things when I was a kid, I didn't really know anybody who

00:12:40.300 had the money for video games. And, and like in my neighborhood, like literally nobody had

00:12:43.940 that. So, um, there was no social media, no smartphones, no, um, you know, Twitter, Instagram,

00:12:51.380 Tik TOK, all this stuff. So like these kids are growing up with so much more, um, data,

00:12:58.280 so much more, uh, marketing, so much more information, so many more distractions and they're being forced

00:13:06.580 to grow up a lot quicker, I feel like. And so if, if they can get into whether it's hunting

00:13:12.920 or surfing or snowboarding or soccer or something outdoors, something that they can do with their

00:13:19.080 friends, that's super healthy for their minds, for their bodies, um, for their soul, that's,

00:13:24.320 I feel like if they can find something like that at a young age, that's, that's, that's, um, just

00:13:29.620 gives them a huge advantage in life.

00:13:31.900 For sure. Did your, did your folks teach you to surf or where did you pick this up at such

00:13:35.940 an early age?

00:13:37.620 So my parents, this was like in their early seventies, but my parents, um, started a little

00:13:44.840 restaurant right on the beach, Kona on the big Island. And so I grew up in the restaurant

00:13:52.240 and right outside the restaurant was this like little beach. And that's where I learned to

00:13:57.300 swim. That's where I started like riding waves on a bodyboard, body surfing, surfing. That's

00:14:03.440 where I started fishing. I fish every day when there was no waves. I was, that's, that's

00:14:07.500 where I started diving. And that's where I met all my friends. So it just was like a

00:14:12.200 natural thing for me to like, um, like spend my whole, whole, you know, upbringing in the

00:14:17.840 ocean. And I just fell in love with riding waves. I just, the, the, the feeling of riding

00:14:22.560 waves was just, um, something that, I don't know, it sounds super cheesy, but it's just,

00:14:29.560 it was such a cool experience. Like I never grew up in church or anything like that, but

00:14:33.780 like something about like being out in the ocean with sun coming up in the morning and

00:14:37.720 just, that's, that's all I needed was my surf trunks and my surfboard. And there was like,

00:14:42.720 like every other kid growing up, you have really stressful times in your household. I grew

00:14:46.240 up with, uh, by far, my father was kind of a gnarly alcoholic and my parents would scrap

00:14:52.680 all the time. And, um, my, you know, they, they are getting divorced when I was pretty

00:14:56.760 young. And so I had a lot of like crazy stuff happening in my life. Um, not unlike everyone

00:15:02.600 else, but surfing for me, it was like my, it was like my outlet. It was like my, like the

00:15:08.380 thing I would always go to, um, when I was stressed out or angry or upset or whatever it

00:15:13.540 was, uh, surfing was always there for me. So that, that was a thing that made me really

00:15:18.920 connect with riding waves when I was a kid. Yeah. It sounds like, um, that, that idea of

00:15:23.720 the proximity principle, right? That the waves and the ocean was close to you. And so that's

00:15:29.660 what you naturally gravitated towards. But I'm curious when you started to get more intentional

00:15:34.940 about it, because as I understand it, you're, you're a big wave surfer, right? And so that's,

00:15:40.280 that's different than somebody who's going to do a bunch of tricks on smaller waves

00:15:43.400 and ride these short sets. So when did you start getting more intentional about it and

00:15:47.780 deciding, okay, this is the path that I want to take that I'm more excited about?

00:15:54.080 Well, it started when I was pretty young, I started getting into trouble. I started, uh,

00:15:58.900 you know, getting into trouble with, um, you know, started having bad grades and hanging

00:16:03.800 around a bunch of stupid kids that were doing really stupid stuff. I started getting involved

00:16:08.220 in that and started getting into trouble a little bit. This is like in seventh grade.

00:16:11.020 And, um, and I kind of, like I got my surfboard taken away for a whole quarter until I got my

00:16:17.300 grades better. Um, and I realized really quickly, like, Hey, this is like, like these choices that

00:16:23.080 I'm making are, are bad choices. And they're taking me down a road that a bunch of idiots

00:16:27.660 are on. Like my, my friends at the time were, were idiots. They were, they were really hellbent

00:16:32.440 on going in a bad direction. Right.

00:16:34.700 I woke up to that. Um, when I got my surfboard taken away and, uh, I kind of just turned away

00:16:41.640 from like those choices and what was happening in my life at that time and, and really hunkered

00:16:45.920 down and in the surfing thing. And I was like, this serving things bringing great things to

00:16:50.920 my life. And I, I, I had some really cool mentors at the time, uh, come and talk to me

00:16:55.200 about, you know, what was happening in my life and just really helped me kind of with that

00:16:59.340 perspective. And, and so ever since then, I, I just, um, became hyper-focused on surfing.

00:17:05.640 Um, soon after that, I, um, I asked my, my mom if I could move to the North shore of Oahu,

00:17:12.480 which is like Mecca for surfing. So, um, I had a job at the time and I saved up some money

00:17:16.880 and I shipped my car over to the North shore and went to school there, um, ninth through

00:17:23.700 12th grade and, and lived with friends, lived on couches and, and, um, basically just, you

00:17:30.140 know, lived surfing. And it was my, I was obsessed with getting better and I really wanted to do

00:17:34.720 it for a living. I had some friends that were, were working towards the goal of surfing as

00:17:40.000 a pro. And so I just kind of got on that program. I was, I was really excited about kind of going

00:17:45.320 in that direction. I kind of poured all of my energy into that goal.

00:17:49.000 Um, what, um, when you, you talked about mentors as, as, uh, coming into your life

00:17:55.700 when you were younger, how did you find those mentors? Did they find you? Are these guys that

00:18:01.160 you surfed with? Like what, what, what led you down the path to find those guys in particular

00:18:05.860 or those individuals? Um, one of them probably was, uh, uh, one of them was my surf shop sponsor.

00:18:15.140 Okay. Time. So I had, I had a surf shop sponsor that was, that was helping me. And, um, when

00:18:23.300 I started doing that in school and, and, and things, things started kind of going in the

00:18:27.700 wrong direction for me, she actually asked me to come in and talk to her. And so she had

00:18:33.580 a pretty long conversation with me about life and about decisions and about friends and about

00:18:38.400 who we hang out with. And, and you know, that just like, like we don't get a second chance,

00:18:43.300 but the basic, the basic message from a couple of these people were like, you don't get a second

00:18:48.540 chance to do this. You get one chance. And so don't screw it up. You know, it's, it's a blessing.

00:18:53.960 It's a, you gotta be really grateful for this opportunity to be alive. I mean, I got, I got,

00:19:00.260 I have no excuse. I have, I have two arms, two legs. I can run fast. I can swim far.

00:19:04.860 And so I don't want it to take it for granted, you know? And so it was one of those, just,

00:19:09.160 it was like a wake up call, like just get your shit together. Basically it was a message.

00:19:13.320 What did, uh, what did she see in you? Like, is that, is that a relationship that you actively

00:19:18.840 went out and you were trying to get sponsorships or did she approach you? Like how did that

00:19:23.600 relationship form?

00:19:26.020 No, I, I think she just saw some potential. And then as far as like, I, I, I think she'd seen

00:19:34.480 a lot of kids from my area grow up with, with some potential. And then, you know, like, like

00:19:39.520 we all do, we see kids going down the wrong path and they become burnt out or get into drugs or

00:19:45.200 start hanging out with a bunch of scrubby kids and just doing stupid stuff. And, and that just

00:19:50.160 leads, you know, like we, we all know where that leads. Um, you know, those kids start going,

00:19:56.160 keep, keep on that, on that bad path. And, um, you know, they crash and burn. She didn't want

00:20:02.780 to see that happen to me. And I was showing a lot of potential on the surf and the surfing

00:20:06.440 thing. And so she really wanted to support me and, and not see me go down that bad road.

00:20:11.220 And, and so I was super grateful and I'm still friends with her today. And, and, um, you know,

00:20:17.620 it's, I feel like you don't need that many mentors in life. You can just even be one, but

00:20:23.220 in those moments where, um, you may not be making the best decisions, it's your, your real

00:20:29.220 friends and people who really care about you who are going to step up and actually keep

00:20:32.900 you in check.

00:20:34.140 Yeah. I mean, mentorship is weird because a lot of the guys that listen to the podcast

00:20:38.940 will, will ask me questions like, how do you find a mentor? And they think it's this

00:20:42.660 kind of strange one-on-one Obi-Wan Kenobi relation. And it's like real formal. And I've,

00:20:52.160 I haven't found it to be that, you know, I have mentors come and go. And sometimes they're

00:20:55.680 there for a couple of weeks or sometimes somebody just says something like, maybe you say something

00:20:59.640 in this podcast. I'm like, yeah, man. And that sticks with me for the rest of my life. And other

00:21:04.000 times it's a longer relationship. But I just think we're like, when it comes to mentorship, we're

00:21:08.440 trying to fit this, this, like our, our idea or our notion of it. And it limits us to just these

00:21:15.660 random interactions that we might have with people that could radically change our lives.

00:21:21.380 Yeah. And like for some people like Joe Rogan is their mentor.

00:21:25.680 Right. Right. And they've, and they've, and they've never met Joe. They, but they, you

00:21:31.920 know, they, they, uh, you know, they, it's, it can be anything, right? It can be just something

00:21:38.140 in your life that just makes a lot of sense to you and like talk some sense into you, even

00:21:41.360 if you don't even know that person personally. Um, you know, I, I feel like that's what, I

00:21:46.120 mean, podcasts are so good in that way. I mean, there's, there's, there's, uh, I mean,

00:21:51.000 I listen to a lot of podcasts all the time, but I feel like mentorship is,

00:21:55.680 uh, you know, for some kids, they don't even have access to it. You know, they, I mean,

00:22:00.900 there's, there's a lot of kids who don't, they literally don't know a single adult that

00:22:05.360 they really, really look up to. I mean, there's, there's kids out there for sure. Like that.

00:22:08.760 I was really lucky in that I did have, have adults. I have, you know, my mother was an

00:22:14.220 amazing role model. She had tons of discipline. She was a really hard worker, incredibly smart,

00:22:19.700 hard work, just really hardworking. Um, so I had, I had a great example at my own home.

00:22:24.980 Uh, and so she, she, she was not only my mom, she was definitely a mentor in my life. Um,

00:22:30.840 so I really had no excuse. Yeah. I mean, we can craft all sorts of excuses, right? But usually,

00:22:37.400 usually when we look back, they don't really, uh, they don't really hold any weight. That's for

00:22:41.800 sure. Yeah. I'm really curious because my wife spent a little time in Hawaii on the big Island and,

00:22:47.040 um, she didn't, she didn't really have a positive experience. And so I'm really curious what it was

00:22:53.500 like for you growing up in Hawaii as, as a white kid, you know, did you see any challenge with that,

00:22:59.400 with that? Did you have to get into fights? Like, like, I'm just really curious of your perspective

00:23:04.320 from, from that angle. Yeah. That's a, that's kind of a funny question because if you, if,

00:23:11.480 if you'd never been to Hawaii a long time ago and you've only been to Hawaii in like last 10,

00:23:15.880 15 years, then that, that, that question makes no sense. Um, but yeah, in the, in the early seventies,

00:23:21.860 when I was a little kid, um, you know, white people were the minority, right? For sure.

00:23:28.800 In my classroom, you look at my school pictures when I was in first, second, third, fifth grade,

00:23:35.180 there was very few white kids. Um, and we were like second class citizens. There was tons of racism.

00:23:42.160 Um, you know, we were looked down upon, uh, and called names and it was pretty intense. I was pretty

00:23:49.660 lucky. I was really good friends with a lot of like big Hawaiians. And, um, for some reason,

00:23:55.340 I don't, I really don't know. I think I knew some of them, some surfing and, and stuff like that,

00:24:01.140 but I never, I never really had a hard time when I was a kid, but definitely just in general being a

00:24:07.240 white kid when I was, when I was a kid, um, in the town I grew up in was definitely, uh, it, it, uh,

00:24:13.700 it made for challenging situations for sure. Like a lot of people like would call you out for fights

00:24:18.840 and stuff like that all the time. Right. Yeah. And that was kind of my wife's experience,

00:24:22.940 you know, as, as, as she spent a couple of years there with school, like she was really picked on

00:24:27.460 and really bullied. So I was wondering if that, if you feel like that had any sort of,

00:24:32.920 I'm sure it had an effect on you, but I'm wondering if it changed some of your mentality,

00:24:36.740 not, not towards another person or anything, but just changed who you are,

00:24:40.880 or maybe gave you a competitive edge, anything like that. What's that? Sorry. I didn't get that

00:24:45.100 last part. I said, if it changed you, not necessarily your outlook on other people,

00:24:50.300 but gave you a, an advantage or a competitive edge, or you were able to utilize some of that

00:24:54.680 as fuel, something like that. Yeah. I think it was just a wake up call that, Hey, like, you know,

00:25:01.840 like life, life isn't always perfect. Like life is, um, you know, there's people, people are flawed

00:25:08.360 and you know, we all are. And, and so to experience, it's experience being treated a

00:25:14.900 certain way because the color of your skin is radical wake up call when you're a kid,

00:25:18.540 because that's all learned. That's all learned behavior. We're not, we're not, we're not born

00:25:23.000 that way. We're not born, um, seeing people by their skin tone. Right. Um, so like, it's so funny.

00:25:29.700 There's probably a lot of people listening to this podcast. Like what is this guy talking about?

00:25:32.260 He's got white skin. There's no one is judging him for his skin color. Right. But, um, you know,

00:25:37.720 if things were things, things are totally different in different parts of the world. And you know,

00:25:42.040 where I grew up having white skin wasn't cool when I was a kid. So, um, but yeah, it was,

00:25:47.180 it was definitely a situation where I felt like I had something to prove. I felt like, um, you know,

00:25:52.480 it did give me feel like to get hated on when I was a kid a little bit. Um, and I just let it kind

00:25:58.880 of fuel me. And, uh, I don't, I don't really know how to answer that question really well,

00:26:03.300 but, um, yeah, I think, I think it was a really good lesson learned at an early age for sure.

00:26:08.920 Yeah. And I'm not looking for the perfect answer. I'm just really curious as your impact and how that

00:26:13.940 might've changed you or made you see the world, not even the world, just your, your, your corner of

00:26:20.200 it, right. Your, your, your community. I am really curious though. One thing that, um, it sounds like

00:26:25.180 you have a lot of respect for your mother, which I feel the same way about mine. Uh, and, and I'm

00:26:29.980 interested in you approaching her. It sounds like you were maybe ninth grade or so. It sounded like,

00:26:35.920 or, or nine years. I can't remember ninth, ninth grade or nine years old, somewhere in there.

00:26:39.140 Ninth grade, ninth grade. Okay. And you approached her and said, Hey, I want to go to North shore.

00:26:43.220 And I'm sure you had some friends and things like that. What, what made her agree to that? Like,

00:26:49.140 what is it that she saw or what, what was her, her, uh, justification for lack of a better term for

00:26:55.920 allowing her, you know, 13, 14 year old to go to a completely different Island and go pursue his

00:27:04.040 dreams at that age. Honestly, um, she said flat out no, when I asked her and she said, there's no

00:27:14.620 chance you're going over there by yourself. There's no chance you're moving to a different Island and

00:27:18.460 he's staying at your friend's house. Um, and so I had to really like negotiate with her for a couple

00:27:25.220 of weeks. It was all about my grades. It was all about my, it was all about my grades making like

00:27:31.380 she, I had to basically like have like this huge thing of rules, like all these things I had to

00:27:35.900 abide by. And second, I, I either had bad grades or I, I skipped school. Even one day I was coming

00:27:42.720 straight back. Um, and I had saved up a bunch of money from my job at that point.

00:27:48.340 So I just kind of, I was a pretty independent kid already at that age. And, and so I, I,

00:27:54.920 and then I, I, I spoke to my friend, um, and his family who his father was shaping my surfboards

00:28:01.820 at the time. Can you hear me still? It's kind of raining. Yeah, it's okay. Yeah. I can hear

00:28:06.780 you just fine. Yeah. The background noise makes it more interesting. So yeah, we got you, man.

00:28:11.820 You're all good. Cool. Yeah. So it was funny because like my surfboard shape at the time,

00:28:17.620 I was really good friends with his son and they said, Hey, if you, if you get the green

00:28:21.720 light for your, from your mom, you're welcome to come over and live with us. And so I basically

00:28:26.260 like negotiated with my mom for a couple of weeks straight. And eventually she said, Hey,

00:28:31.020 as long as you, um, follow all these rules and abide by them and have a lot of respect for,

00:28:35.840 for, for this contract, then you can go. But the second you screw up, you come straight back.

00:28:40.960 And so, but that was a huge opportunity for me. And that was a crazy, like, even now looking back,

00:28:47.300 she's like, what was I thinking? Like letting you go over there when you're, you know, just barely

00:28:51.260 15 years old. Man, let me hit the pause button really quickly. I know earlier I talked with you

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00:29:48.060 Store.orderofman.com store.orderofman.com get your Christmas shopping done early and get it done

00:29:55.140 quickly. Get it done after this podcast, because for now I'm going to finish it up with Shane.

00:30:00.780 Yeah. Cause I look at my, so my oldest son is 12 and you know,

00:30:04.760 in two or three years, I can't imagine turning him loose. You know, even if he had this,

00:30:09.320 this desire to do this one thing, it would be a, it would be a difficult,

00:30:13.760 it would be a difficult choice and a huge sacrifice on the part of a mother to be able to do that. She,

00:30:18.700 she, she must've seen something in you that, that allowed that to be okay. And that's,

00:30:23.160 that's actually pretty telling. I think itself.

00:30:24.820 Yeah. I mean, I, I definitely was like hyper-focused as a kid and I had a huge goal in mind and I was

00:30:33.900 working towards that goal. And, and at that point I was pretty on the straight and narrow as far as

00:30:39.980 like getting good grades and really not doing anything too stupid. And so I just asked her to

00:30:46.500 trust me and said, Hey, this is what I really, really want to do. This is all I want to do.

00:30:50.360 This is the only thing I want to do in my life. And so please give me the chance to do this.

00:30:55.620 And she just said, Hey, you got it. I'm going to put you on a short leash, but you can go.

00:31:00.740 And I had a ton of respect for her because she gave me that independence. She said, you know,

00:31:04.660 you're really going to have to earn this. And you know, it's, I just incredibly grateful because

00:31:10.340 in my life, that was such a turning point. That was like the biggest thing ever for me,

00:31:15.120 having that independence and an opportunity and having the trust of my mom, who I, who

00:31:19.740 I looked up to so much, uh, say, Hey, look, you can go and do this. Like, I really trust

00:31:25.800 you. I want you to have what you want in your life. That was a huge thing for me. And

00:31:29.560 it's funny because my kid just turned 14 and I, I would never in a million years, let

00:31:34.360 him move out of the house and go live at somebody's house. No chance. Um, but he's also

00:31:41.380 a different, I'm a different parent. He's a different kid. Um, so things are just different

00:31:46.460 these days. And also at the time, my, my mom was a single mother, um, struggling to make

00:31:52.380 ends meet. She had two jobs. She was hardly ever home. Um, you know, my dad was kind of

00:31:57.800 out of the picture. And so in, in my household, it's totally different, right? I have a, I have

00:32:02.940 a pretty, I have a pretty functional marriage. I have a great wife, a great mother. Um, we have

00:32:09.260 a pretty solid family foundation, um, in the house. Um, so there's not really, and, and

00:32:16.320 my, and my kid who's very focused on surfing as well, he, he has a lot of opportunities

00:32:21.160 that I never had, right? Like we're, we're, we're here on the North shore right now. Um,

00:32:26.200 in a big part because of my kid loves to surf. So, yeah, I mean you, you've, and, and you've

00:32:32.720 done this, so I don't want to diminish or take away from what you've done, but you've

00:32:35.340 created a lot of congruence in your life, which gives yourself the opportunity to provide

00:32:39.420 things for your children that maybe you didn't have those same opportunities. So you've done

00:32:44.300 that. But then also just in modern times, right? The, the, the society in which we live

00:32:49.360 allows us to create these lives where we can do anything that we want to do and still provide

00:32:56.300 and still lead and do all the things that we're quote unquote supposed to do. Did you ever

00:33:00.380 think that surfing would become what it is for you? Did you think you could make a career

00:33:07.700 and make income and then provide for a family? Was that even on your radar when you were younger?

00:33:14.660 Never in a million years. I never, I never saw it coming. I never knew it had any kind

00:33:19.940 of potential the way it turned out. Um, it's been a crazy ride on, honestly, I never thought

00:33:26.040 I'd be able to make a living from surfing. And then when I started making a living from surfing,

00:33:30.140 when I was like 20, I thought that by the time I was like 27, 28, I would be retired from surfing.

00:33:37.040 I thought I would have to get a job and do something totally different. And then when I

00:33:40.400 was 27 or 28, I thought at the longest, this thing will last until I'm like 31. And then

00:33:45.740 when I was 31, I thought of for sure it's going to be over when I'm 35 and I'm 48. And, um,

00:33:52.040 I just recently signed a three-year contract with my, my clothing sponsor. And I'm still

00:33:57.460 renegotiating my contracts now with existing companies. And, and so things just, it's really

00:34:03.440 strange. I'm baffled all the time, but, um, it's still, it's still happening.

00:34:08.940 Isn't that amazing? So the way I understand it, primarily your income is derived and not

00:34:15.960 specifically you, but income from, from these athletes derived from sponsorships. I mean, is that,

00:34:21.100 that's the big income source? Is that correct?

00:34:26.200 For sure. Um, it's just about working with brands and, you know, working with their marketing teams

00:34:31.540 to get their, their message out there, their brands out there, their campaigns out there.

00:34:35.680 Um, I serve for fill-a-long clothing and wetsuits. Uh, they're, uh, they're, uh, they're from Australia

00:34:41.220 originally, but now they're global and they, uh, their, their whole DNA is in surfing and

00:34:47.540 they have an incredible surf team of young kids coming up and world champions. And, and so,

00:34:52.740 you know, my job basically is to, um, you know, get exposure for the brand, get exposure for myself,

00:34:59.420 you know, keep doing what I'm doing, riding waves and being a mentor to kids. And, and, um, yeah,

00:35:04.600 it's really difficult to explain it. I still think it's strange to get paid to go surfing. Um,

00:35:10.220 it's, I've been doing that for a very long time now. And every time I look at checks coming in the

00:35:17.440 mail, I am shocked. Cause like when you're doing something that you absolutely love and get paid

00:35:23.180 for it, it is very surreal. And, um, I feel like I definitely don't have a job.

00:35:28.840 Are there things though about the, maybe not your, you know, your quote unquote job,

00:35:34.760 but about the industry that you struggle with, you know, that you have to do and you have to complete,

00:35:38.920 but it isn't enjoyable to you. And you wish if you could wave your magic wand that you wouldn't

00:35:44.920 have to do these types of things, whatever those are. For sure. And I don't, I'm not complaining at

00:35:51.180 all. Um, I'm incredibly lucky and grateful for what I get to do for a living, but yeah, every single

00:35:57.320 job, no matter whether you're Tom Brady or whether you're the president of the United States,

00:36:02.340 it looks really good from one side of the coin. But if you look at the other side, there's always

00:36:07.500 drawbacks. There's always sacrifices that these people are making huge ones, especially as like

00:36:11.920 if the job is really good and you're making massive sacrifices. Like there was, you know, for 15 years

00:36:18.000 of my life, I was out of the country for 10 months a year. Um, and then when I had, I had really young

00:36:24.720 kids and I got married, I was spending tons of time away from home because I had to job.

00:36:29.980 And so even now I, I still travel probably five, five or six months a year. Um, and that's my job.

00:36:37.000 It's travel. I'm always traveling. That's, that's how, that's like a huge part of my work. So

00:36:42.440 do you take your family with you when you travel?

00:36:44.860 It's non-negotiable. Sometimes I do. Um, and now because there's so much synergy between what I do

00:36:52.060 and my son is very interested in surfing and he's also kind of surfing for a living already. Um,

00:36:58.320 I take him with me a lot, but I'm not able to take my daughter and my wife a whole lot, but I do take

00:37:04.140 them on certain trips. But yeah, so, so that's the sacrifice. I don't, I don't get to be home all the

00:37:09.760 time. I don't get to see my wife and daughter as much as I would like to. Um, but, uh, you know,

00:37:16.940 every, everybody, the thing is when I'm at home, even though I'm away from home, like four or five

00:37:22.580 months a year, when I am home, I'm there, I'm there for my wife and I get to see my daughter

00:37:27.640 24 hours a day. You know what I mean? I'm, I'm there, uh, when she's going to school,

00:37:32.060 like before this whole COVID thing, um, you know, I'm getting her up in the morning and helping her

00:37:36.960 make lunch and making sure she's done her schoolwork and, uh, taking her to school and picking her up

00:37:41.560 from school and taking her surfing and making sure she's doing her schoolwork and, um, you know,

00:37:46.840 reading with her in the evenings and putting her to bed. Like I'm there a hundred percent when I'm at

00:37:51.400 home. So it just looks different. Instead of me being away eight hours a day at my nine to five,

00:37:56.480 I'm gone five months a year. And so when I'm home, I'm not working. So it just looks a little bit

00:38:02.240 different. For sure. I mean, it's just a different dynamic. How does your wife deal with the dynamic?

00:38:07.460 Um, I mean, she married a surfer, like she probably, it sounds like, does she surf as well?

00:38:11.560 It sounds like maybe she does. No, she doesn't. Oh, she doesn't. Okay. No. So she married a

00:38:16.020 surfer. She knew you were a surfer. So, I mean, she kind of, at some point probably knew to some

00:38:21.440 degree what she was getting into, but how does that, how has that evolved and changed in her

00:38:25.620 perception of what you do now that you're 48 years old and you're still traveling five, six months a

00:38:30.820 year? She definitely knew what she was signing up for. Um, I, you know, like the day she met me,

00:38:39.840 I was already traveling full time and this is what I've been doing for a living ever since

00:38:44.220 she's known me. So it's completely normal for her. And we've been together for a very long time. We

00:38:49.320 actually started dating when I was 20. Um, and then so, so we, we dated, she was from California.

00:38:57.540 I'm from Hawaii and I was traveling full time. So we kind of had a long distance relationship

00:39:01.500 for about five years. And then it just got to be really, really complicated when she was

00:39:07.680 in college in LA. And then she started working full time and I was traveling full time.

00:39:12.020 So we split up and became just worked, stayed in touch and worked really good friends for about

00:39:17.640 three years. And then we ended up getting married and we've been married for, um, I think 18, 19 years

00:39:23.600 now. And so she just, we know each other really well. We have a lot of trust in our relationship.

00:39:28.720 So she's not like me being gone for three weeks at a time is totally normal for her. She,

00:39:35.240 we, we FaceTime all the time. We talk every day and I don't know, it's just our, I remember

00:39:40.360 every relationship is different. I have a lot of friends who are like, Oh my God, my wife

00:39:44.300 would kill me if I was gone for three weeks or, Oh my gosh, I need to talk to her on the

00:39:47.920 phone for like two hours a day. Like sometimes I just text her once, you know what I mean?

00:39:52.000 During the day. That's not weird at all. It's totally normal. And it just, it's something

00:39:56.600 that works for us, you know? Yeah. I think the dynamics different for everyone. I was

00:40:00.680 going to say that the times that I leave is probably actually really good for my relationship

00:40:04.220 with my wife. She would probably attest to that as well. Uh, and then even when I'm gone,

00:40:09.420 you know, if I'm on a hunt or, or a trip or whatever it may be is I may text her or shoot

00:40:13.940 her a quick, you know, five minute phone call and that's adequate for us. So I think we've

00:40:19.180 been able to create something that works well for our dynamic. And I keep those lines of

00:40:23.120 communication open and it sounds like you've done the same thing and that's what works for

00:40:26.900 you guys. It is. Yeah. And it, and it works just, just great for us. The really hard thing

00:40:31.720 is my daughter because I get to take my son a lot. So I spend a ton of time with him, but

00:40:37.320 a lot of times I have to leave my wife and daughter at home. And so, um, I definitely spend a lot

00:40:41.600 less time with my daughter. And so when I'm at home, I try and that's like, that's like at

00:40:46.220 the forefront of, of, of my worries and my, like, as far as like being a father and stuff,

00:40:53.080 I really try to put a lot of energy and effort into that. And that is something I really want

00:40:56.720 to do right. And I really want to do well. I feel like we really only have one chance

00:41:00.680 to do it right. Um, and so I worry that I'm not spending enough time with my daughter.

00:41:06.100 So that's like anytime I'm home, anytime I'm with her, I'm always trying to spend as much

00:41:10.660 time as possible with her, take her surfing and do things she likes to do. Um, so that's

00:41:16.020 definitely something that, um, that I feel, uh, you know, as a father that I'm, I'm, I

00:41:23.100 have a lot of worry about that, that I'm not, I'm unable to spend as much time as I probably

00:41:27.540 should with her. And so I want to make sure she's okay all the time.

00:41:31.880 Do you feel like there's any sort of, um, any sort of animosity or has she ever expressed

00:41:38.000 or voiced any concern that you're always with, you know, your oldest, your son and not with

00:41:42.400 her? Is that something that she's expressed to you?

00:41:46.020 A little bit. It's something that I definitely don't avoid talking about. I mean, I speak

00:41:53.320 to her about it all the time and I try to explain to her like the reality of what I do for a

00:41:57.660 living and how I have to travel and, um, that he does the same thing for a living now. And

00:42:03.380 that because of that, this is how our lives kind of look right now. And, um, but I do try

00:42:08.120 to try to take her on trips as well. Um, and she has to travel, you know, here and there.

00:42:13.240 She's a very lucky girl, but yeah, I mean, I, I really don't want that animosity and I

00:42:18.340 don't, I don't see it yet, but I'm definitely already thinking about it. And I, and I don't

00:42:23.080 want that to be a real negative in her life growing up. Um, I've seen that in the past

00:42:28.040 with siblings where one of them is extremely passionate about something and gets a lot

00:42:32.340 of opportunities because of it. Um, you know, I mean that, that, that's exactly what happened

00:42:36.260 in my life. You know, I was, when I was a kid, I was already, like I said, I already

00:42:39.640 moved away from home when I was in ninth grade. I was completely financially independent,

00:42:43.360 uh, like before graduating high school. And I was basically on my own and I had a ton

00:42:48.400 of opportunities because of my passion for surfing. And so I just grew up a totally different

00:42:53.440 way. And that's kind of like repeating itself in my own household. And I just want to be hyper

00:42:58.280 aware of how that's affecting my daughter.

00:43:01.860 I'm glad you brought it up because, and the reason I even ask it is because not only do

00:43:06.300 I deal with it, but I'm sure a lot of guys who are listening deal with it. Cause again,

00:43:09.360 my oldest son, he loves to hunt. I really enjoy hunting. So naturally we go out and we spend

00:43:14.060 a lot of time out on the property and we're taking care of the food plot and we're sitting

00:43:19.100 in a blind or we're walking around the mountains because I like it. He likes it. And so of course

00:43:23.640 we're going to spend more time together. And so, yeah, sometimes I do feel like I'm neglecting

00:43:28.180 to a degree the others. And, uh, that's something that I personally wrestle with

00:43:31.840 as well. So that, that's why I asked about it. Cause it is important to me just as it

00:43:35.980 sounds like it's important to you.

00:43:38.840 Yeah, it's very important. I mean, being a, being a good, being a parent is the most important

00:43:44.600 thing that I've ever done. And I, I really do feel like you only get one chance. You don't

00:43:49.560 get a second chance to be a good, a good father, you know?

00:43:52.380 And it goes super quick, right? Like so fast.

00:43:55.440 It goes super quick. You blink and they're out of the house. So, you know, I already feel

00:44:00.460 like that's kind of happening with my son. He's 14. He's growing up quick. And my daughter

00:44:04.600 is 11 and like, I'm going to blink and they're both going to be out of the house. So this

00:44:08.960 is, this is the window of opportunity right now to be a good father. And so that's where

00:44:12.960 I'm, you know, putting a lot of my energy and, and, but it's a delicate balance. Like

00:44:17.620 everybody else probably listening to this podcast, watching this podcast, I mean, like trying to

00:44:22.240 balance family, work, you know, finances, bills, um, time to go do what we want to do

00:44:28.980 as well. Like for us, it's bow hunting. And that's like a huge part of my life. And, but

00:44:33.540 trying to like balance that time, like carving out a little bit of time to do what I really

00:44:38.140 enjoy doing, which is bow hunting and then trying to be a good dad and trying to make sure

00:44:44.160 my work thing stays intact. Um, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's not easy, especially for

00:44:50.300 a long period of time. I definitely want to get into the bow hunting thing, but I'm curious

00:44:55.020 with you knowing as much as you know, about the surfing community and the industry, are

00:45:01.580 there things that you are keenly aware of that you're trying to steer your son towards or away

00:45:07.880 from? Like, how do you navigate those waters and teach him? These are good paths. These are

00:45:12.860 paths you ought to avoid and pitfalls you need to be aware of. What are those types of things?

00:45:19.160 Uh, he doesn't really listen to me.

00:45:21.720 That makes sense too. I mean, that's, that's pretty standard and typical as well.

00:45:28.280 Yeah, no, I mean, he, he definitely doesn't seem like he is, but, um, but yeah, I mean,

00:45:33.600 I think I'm because it's, it's hard. It's, it's kind of funny because he didn't want to serve.

00:45:42.860 I mean, like when he was little, he didn't know any better. I would take him surfing all

00:45:46.640 the time. Like I would put him on the front of a longboard or a soft top and we would catch

00:45:50.840 like little six inch waves. And we started off like that when he was literally like, he

00:45:55.100 was six months old and he could just hold his head up straight. I was taking him to ride

00:45:58.260 waves. And so before he had a chance to say no, he was already surfing. And then once

00:46:03.740 he got a little bit older, they got like maybe a five, six, seven years old. I would take him

00:46:08.280 surfing all the time. We would surf together. He would be on my board or I'd take him on

00:46:11.880 his board by himself and I would always help him out. And then he, and then he, when he

00:46:16.700 got about eight years old, seven or eight years old, he started skateboarding and then he got

00:46:23.020 really good at skateboarding super fast. And then skateboarding became his thing. He poured

00:46:27.760 all his energy into skateboarding. He didn't want to skate. He didn't want to surf every day.

00:46:31.920 He just wanted to go to the skate park. And so I would spend hours and hours and hours

00:46:35.960 and hours of skateboarding with him. And then sometimes I would be like, Hey dude, we're

00:46:39.680 going to go to the beach today. I know. And he'd be like, no, I don't want to go to the

00:46:42.880 beach. I want to go skate. I'd be like, if I can take you to the skate park for five hours,

00:46:47.260 you can come and catch 10 waves with me. Right. And so for a long time, he was like, dude,

00:46:51.120 the dad's surfing is your thing. I'm a skateboarder. And he really was reluctant to

00:46:55.740 surf. He didn't want to surf. I think he viewed it as it was dad's thing. I want, I don't

00:47:00.020 want to do, I want to, I want to do something that's my own. Interesting. Yeah. Which I

00:47:04.860 totally understand. And I kind of anticipated that, um, you know, we normally want to either

00:47:10.160 do what our, be like our dad or totally be the opposite. Yeah. And so that wasn't super

00:47:15.340 surprising to me at all, but I wasn't like, Hey, you need to surf and get good at this because

00:47:20.720 you need to do it for a living where I need you to surf good. I honestly was simply wanting

00:47:26.360 to have him fall in love with surfing because for kids who fall in love with surfing, it

00:47:31.880 is such a cool thing in their lives. I mean, it says something that you can do until you're

00:47:35.640 90 years old. Um, and normally you're just a really positive stress reliever and, and a

00:47:42.260 way to connect with friends and, uh, stay connected to your friends over, you know, decade after

00:47:49.320 decade. It's like something that brings people together and is good for your soul. And that's

00:47:53.900 literally the reason I wanted him to like surfing. And so for about three years, he didn't want

00:47:59.120 to surf at all. And then slowly, but surely he realized, Hey, surfing is really fun. And

00:48:04.060 my friends are starting to surf. This is when he was about nine, nine or 10 years old. And

00:48:08.020 then once he realized all his buddies started surfing, then he, he's really social. So then

00:48:12.580 he wanted to go to the beach every day and go surfing with them. And so it was a really natural

00:48:16.480 thing. I never pushed him. Um, you know, I would take him to the beach all the time. And then

00:48:20.480 once he started really liking surf, then I would take him every single day and, um, try

00:48:25.080 to support him in that way. But really, even now, even though things have gotten a little

00:48:29.460 more serious with sponsors and, um, you know, business agreements and stuff for him, which

00:48:34.560 is super strange.

00:48:35.680 Weird at 14, right? I'm sure.

00:48:37.700 I really am. Yes. It's really weird. You know, he's paying taxes at 14 for surfing. So,

00:48:43.720 um, it's, but it's, and it, and that's a very strange thing for him. It's a very strange

00:48:50.180 thing for me as a parent, but, but more important than all of that stuff is just keeping that

00:48:57.180 healthy relationship with surfing and, and making friends that are, that are, that are,

00:49:02.120 that love surfing as well and are on a good path. That's more what it's about for me as

00:49:05.820 a parent. I really want him to have, um, surfing his life because like I said, it's just been

00:49:10.960 a really cool thing and a positive. It's been zero negatives with surfing for my life.

00:49:16.000 It's been something that no matter if I did it for a living or not, I would surf every

00:49:19.180 day.

00:49:20.220 You know, one of the cool things that you were talking about and that we talked about last

00:49:23.420 year when we were hunting together is I I've seen just from the outside looking in briefly,

00:49:27.780 um, that not only are you, you're, you're continuing to surf, but that you're evolving

00:49:33.560 to your, your approach to it. And I think this is something a lot of guys can get from our

00:49:38.020 conversation is, you know, you talked to me about the, um, I'm going to butcher this,

00:49:42.480 but you know, the, the wetsuit with the flotation devices, I think built into it that, that you

00:49:47.180 helped create. And so that's a way for you to stay involved in the industry, but maybe

00:49:52.780 at a, at an evolved level or a different level than you have in the past, which is just writing

00:49:57.320 waves. Right. And, and I see that I'm like, man, that's really cool. Like now he's innovating

00:50:02.400 in the industry that has served him well over his entire life.

00:50:09.440 Yeah. I mean, that, that, you know, that was a lot of fun, like coming up with that idea and

00:50:12.660 developing it. It was, um, and it's, it's really cool because before that happened, you know, there

00:50:20.180 was quite a few people passing away, certain big waves because they were drowning. You know, we started

00:50:25.340 surfing waves that were so big, no matter how fit you are, no matter how long you can hold your

00:50:30.020 breath, um, the, the waves, you know, at some point are too strong. Right. You're going to,

00:50:35.200 you're going to lose if you fight mother nature in the ocean. Um, and so I developed a suit,

00:50:39.480 like you said, that has like built in, um, CO2 cartridges and a big air bladder and like you pull

00:50:45.880 on, like kind of like the, you know, the back country, like the back country backpacks I've seen,

00:50:50.800 like for heli, heli skiers, right for avalanches on avalanche. Yeah. You pull the things and it blows

00:50:59.220 up into a huge bubble and pulls you to the top of the avalanche. So that, that, that was kind of

00:51:03.000 the inspiration for that for surfing was, um, I was trying to make sure that I can get back to the

00:51:08.020 surface. Um, if the wave was too big and I couldn't get there on my own power, I was, I wanted some

00:51:13.900 help. Um, and not because I wanted to, I, I mean, I simply wanted to make things safer for myself so

00:51:20.700 I could justify continuing surfing big waves. That was the, that was the point surfing big waves had

00:51:26.200 become so dangerous in my life. I felt like there was so much risk with a young family and a wife

00:51:31.300 at home and a lot to lose. I just wanted to try and make big wave surfing as safe as I possibly

00:51:36.140 could. So, um, I actually never intended it for anyone else. I didn't even think it was going to

00:51:40.600 work to be honest. And I didn't know that anyone else would be keen to try it. So like once I

00:51:46.920 developed it and had some prototypes, I, I gave it to some friends and made it available to people

00:51:51.120 and, um, man, it's really taken off. So like these days, if you go out to, um, any big wave spot in

00:51:57.840 the world, like whether it's Mavericks in Half Moon Bay or Jaws on Maui or any one of like dozens of

00:52:03.980 big wave spots, literally a hundred percent of people are wearing flotation wetsuits and inflatable

00:52:09.620 wetsuits. So, um, it's been a real positive for surfers. Um, as far as industry goes and

00:52:15.900 all that stuff, it doesn't, it's, that's like meaningless to me, but the fact that it's,

00:52:21.380 we haven't had a single person drown surfing big waves with one of those suits on and there,

00:52:26.400 there hasn't been anyone pass away, um, since the, since the introduction of the inflatable

00:52:31.940 wetsuit. So that's pretty crazy.

00:52:33.940 Yeah. I bet that's really rewarding to, to see those statistics and, and those numbers. I can't

00:52:39.680 even imagine. So I don't know if I told you this, but I know you've got an affinity and background in

00:52:43.980 San Clemente. So when I was, uh, I must've been 12 or 13 years old. I had a really good friend at the

00:52:50.560 time and he was really into surfing. He was very athletic. He loved the beach. He loved the ocean.

00:52:55.880 And he's like, all right, come surfing with me. I'm like, all right. And I've never really spent much

00:52:59.940 time in the water. So he took me to San Clemente, he took me to trestles and he's like, all right,

00:53:04.960 here's a board go surf. And I'm like, okay, what do I do? And he's like, you just paddle. And then

00:53:11.240 you catch the wave and you stand up on the board. I'm like, oh, all right, I'll try it. And I swear,

00:53:16.520 I remember to this day, a, probably a, a three foot or a four foot wave. If that literally tried

00:53:23.440 to kill me. And, and I remember being under the water and then I get up and that next wave rolled in

00:53:28.120 and crashed down on top of me, right. As I got back up to the top of the surface and I just put

00:53:32.780 my board down. I said, I'm done with this. I'm not doing this anymore. So I think I spent the rest of

00:53:37.420 the time on the beach while my buddies were in the water. What's the, uh, what's the biggest wave that

00:53:42.300 you have, uh, that you have surfed? That's a good question. Um, probably about 70 feet on the face.

00:53:53.920 Holy cow, man. I can't imagine that. What's your thought process. You see this wave and you're

00:54:00.060 like, I want to, I don't know. I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm really curious, but it's

00:54:04.400 like, I want to, I want to conquer that wave. I want to tame that wave. Like, what is your thought

00:54:09.000 process when you see that? You're like, I want to ride that. Cause that's not probably a normal

00:54:12.460 thought or a common, maybe not normal is the right word, but it's not a common thought.

00:54:20.100 Yeah. It's funny because it's not, it's for me, it's not even fun. It's, it's, uh, it's more of

00:54:25.220 like the, the, the fun is not the, so much the riding the wave part. The fun for me is conquering

00:54:30.960 my fear and rising to the challenge. Uh, you know, that, that's something that terrified me when I was

00:54:36.720 a kid. Like anytime the waves got really big, I was terrified. And I would see pictures in

00:54:41.360 magazines of guys riding really big waves. And I would be like, never going to do that in a

00:54:45.580 million years. Never, never, never, never, never. And I grew up in a, at a, at a place in Hawaii

00:54:49.860 where the waves don't get very big. It's really rare when the waves are big where I live. And so

00:54:53.880 I grew up with little waves. And so I was terrified of big waves when I was a kid and

00:54:57.980 something that didn't come naturally to me when I was young. And then when I, when I, when I moved to

00:55:02.720 the North shore, like I told you, when I was 15, I got introduced to surfing big waves very quickly. I

00:55:07.820 ended up living with, with friends who were really good at surfing big waves and extremely

00:55:12.660 into it. So, and they were, they were radical into peer pressure. And so when the waves got

00:55:19.480 big, I didn't have a choice. I was going surfing in big waves, whether I liked it or not.

00:55:24.080 And, uh, and I ended up liking it. I thought it was a lot of fun and I love the challenge. I love

00:55:29.220 the personal challenge of like being scared and being able to, to face that fear and rise to

00:55:34.820 the challenge and, and kind of make sense of my emotions and all that stuff, like staying level

00:55:40.720 headed and in a, in an intense situation and, and under pressure was something that I thought was a

00:55:45.880 lot of fun. Have you had any, uh, any sort of close encounters where you legitimately thought

00:55:51.280 I'm under this wave, I'm under the water. Like this is it. I'm going to die right here.

00:55:55.460 Yes, I have. Um, twice once when I was, um, once when I was 18 years old, I was surfing an outer reef

00:56:06.460 here on the North shore, just a couple of miles away from where I am now. Um, I was surfing with

00:56:12.700 two of my friends. They were older than me. They were, they were like my heroes growing up. They,

00:56:17.140 they were incredible big wave surfers and we were the only three out there. And I let my ego take over

00:56:23.840 and I went on a wave because I wanted to impress my friends. You know, these older guys that I

00:56:28.820 really looked up to, I want that. Like I, like I wanted them to, to see that I had what it took

00:56:34.160 in big waves. And I went on a wave that I definitely should have, shouldn't have, uh, pure out of pure

00:56:39.120 ego. And I ended up, um, falling and I got the wind knocked out of me as I fell. It was like getting

00:56:46.400 like body slammed by like a big 300 pound dude, just spotted by slamming you on your chest. I lost all the

00:56:52.460 hair on intact and then got held underwater for two waves. So I was underwater for a long, long time.

00:56:58.340 And then I was like trying to swim up and my body was, I don't know if you've ever tried to hold

00:57:02.260 your breath for a super, super long time, but your, your body will do these involuntary like,

00:57:07.260 right. Right. I don't know if you've ever had that, but, um, I was doing that as I was swimming up

00:57:13.180 and I had no air left at all. And I was about 15 feet from the surface and the next wave. So I was

00:57:19.140 underwater so long that the next wave started breaking over me and that wave pulled me straight

00:57:23.580 back down and I lost consciousness is going to sound super cosmic and cheesy, but I basically

00:57:30.180 don't remember anything after that until all of a sudden I like, um, regain consciousness,

00:57:41.100 whatever you want to call that. I'm not very like into cosmic stuff, but I remember like looking up and

00:57:46.360 realizing all of a sudden that I was like five, six feet away from the surface and swimming up to

00:57:50.800 the surface and I got to the surface and I was, I was throwing up all this stuff from inside. I had

00:57:55.700 like a bunch of water in my lungs and all this foam and orange stuff was coming out of my stomach and

00:58:01.460 my, um, and my lungs. And I'd been underwater for three waves and my two friends, I could see them

00:58:08.740 and I was like seeing double and my legs felt like they didn't want to work. And, um, I was

00:58:14.280 crying uncontrollably and I had the most crazy, you know, emotional experience. And I thought I was

00:58:20.820 going to die for sure in that moment when I, when I was losing consciousness and losing my breath

00:58:25.800 swimming up in that next wave broke over me. That was, that was extremely terrifying. And one of my

00:58:32.040 friends that day, um, had that similar experience right before me, like the year before. And so he,

00:58:39.140 he can't, I got washed all the way to shore and both of my friends came in and, and my, and my one

00:58:44.240 friend Brock little, he's, he sat down with me for a while and I was like crying like a baby. And, um,

00:58:49.720 he just said, Hey man, like I had that same experience about a year ago. I realized I could die. I realized

00:58:55.220 I was mortal. Um, and it's real, man. Like you can really die doing this stuff. And so you don't want

00:59:01.760 to surf with your ego. You really have to make calculated decisions. And, and the next time the

00:59:06.620 waves get big, we're going straight back out there. And so about a week later, the waves got big and we

00:59:12.740 paddled out to the same surf break. And, um, and I got back on the horse and, and, and that was a

00:59:19.300 really important thing for me. Um, and I've been doing it ever since, but it's crazy because both of

00:59:24.860 those friends that I surfed with that day passed away. One of them passed away about three or four years

00:59:29.060 ago from cancer. And he was probably one of the greatest big wave surfers of all time.

00:59:33.780 The other guy drowned surfing big waves before the introduction of the inflatable wetsuit.

00:59:41.460 Wow, man. That's, I, I can't, I got so many questions.

00:59:44.000 Can you hear me Ryan or is the, or is the, um, internet connection okay?

00:59:47.720 Yeah, no, it's good. I can hear you. Okay. Are we, we good? Can you hear me? All right.

00:59:54.100 Yeah. You let me know. Um, I can shift to my, um,

00:59:57.880 I can shift it. I'm on a wifi right now, but if it starts getting kind of funky,

01:00:02.600 I can switch it to my hotspot. Yeah, no, I think we're good. I think we're good.

01:00:07.160 Um, I was saying that I have so many questions about that. How do you, how do you determine if

01:00:13.080 when you're looking at a wave, okay, is this something that I want to take upon me as a

01:00:18.220 challenge to conquer my fears? Or is that my ego speaking? Cause there's probably a fine line

01:00:23.400 between being arrogant and over, over inflated ego. And I think I can do this. I think it's

01:00:30.060 within my skillset and I want to take upon that challenge.

01:00:36.560 I think it's a little bit of both. I think if you're just being calculated and you're just

01:00:41.720 making decisions with zero ego, you're never going to be, you're like, you're never going to, um,

01:00:48.040 perform at the very top of your potential because you only, it's, it's like, I really feel that you're

01:00:58.360 only capable of what you believe you can achieve. If you, like, if you're a stock trader and you

01:01:04.100 believe your, your, your upper limitations are having 20% returns a year, you're never going to

01:01:11.220 have a hundred percent returns a year. You have to believe that it's possible. If you want to become

01:01:15.900 the greatest football player on earth, you have to believe that you're going to become the greatest

01:01:20.220 football player on earth. There's, there's no way you're going to outperform your goals and your

01:01:24.600 dreams. There's no way. Um, I really, really, truly believe that. And a lot of that has to do with

01:01:29.420 ego. I mean, if, if, if you, if you are super, super confident, you go out and surf big waves

01:01:36.180 and you push your risk level up and you have great ability and you're going to surf really,

01:01:43.560 really well, you're going to, you're going to serve to your greatest potential. But if you're,

01:01:46.960 but if you're being too conservative, too humble, too like operating with no ego, then you're probably

01:01:54.040 not going to, um, perform to your, to your upper limits, your potential. So it was a fine line between

01:01:59.800 being able to incorporate your ego and try to become super confident without being pure ego. And,

01:02:08.840 um, I don't know how to explain that, but especially with big wave surfing, because

01:02:12.980 there are serious consequences. I mean, you can do, I've had quite a few friends pass away surfing

01:02:18.320 big waves. Um, and so your life is literally on the line. So if you operate with too much ego and you

01:02:25.580 get in over your head, you die. So it's just a balance of trying to make sure you're in the sweet spot of

01:02:31.720 being super prepared, being very confident. And then also, um, using kind of progressive

01:02:41.200 exposure, if you will, it's like, Hey, I caught one wave. I did everything right. I had great time.

01:02:47.100 I had great positioning. I'm going to up my wrist level slightly. And then, you know, the next wave

01:02:51.760 or the next session, you push it a little bit, a little bit, a little bit as you gain experience.

01:02:55.700 And you have, you have that positive feedback of like, yeah, I'm doing this right. But if you're

01:02:59.980 surfing five foot waves all the time, and then your goal is to surf 70 foot waves, you can't just

01:03:05.940 bridge that. You can't just like jump. You can't just go to that next level. So even if it's your

01:03:11.140 goal, that's all ego, you need to have like that, you know, set incremental goals on the way. I feel

01:03:18.220 like that's really important. Yeah. I mean, I can appreciate you saying, I don't know if I'm

01:03:22.400 explaining it right. Cause how do you explain that font that like really fine thin line? It's

01:03:27.640 very difficult, but I do like that idea. I wrote that down a progressive exposure.

01:03:31.480 That's an interesting concept. I want to go back to what you said about you use the term cosmic when,

01:03:38.000 when you were under the water, when you went through that experience that you just shared with us,

01:03:42.520 do you think that it was cosmic or divine, or do you think it just, it is what it is and it happened.

01:03:49.940 And that's just how it played out. Like, I'm really curious what, how you've interpreted that

01:03:54.520 moment in time for yourself.

01:04:00.400 Uh, not divine. And I don't, I, that's, I don't know. I, I, I, I don't know. I'm, I'm, um,

01:04:13.440 I interpreted that I got lucky, honestly. Um, you know, I feel like sometimes I feel like

01:04:23.860 everything does happen for a reason that I wasn't supposed to die that day. And that's all I kind

01:04:30.820 of read into it, but it didn't make me start going to church every day. Um, do you know what I mean?

01:04:35.780 I didn't think like the hand of God reached down and pulled me out of that situation. Um,

01:04:41.060 not saying that that didn't happen. That totally could have happened. And I'm open to that. That's

01:04:46.520 fine. That would be amazing. Um, but, uh, but yeah, I feel, I feel like I wasn't supposed to

01:04:53.080 die that day. And I simply look at it like that. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's, that's it. I'm always

01:04:59.200 interested in that perspective of how, cause isn't real like life. I just look at life. Isn't,

01:05:03.760 isn't it the way that we interpret it? You know, you can have two things happen to different people

01:05:07.600 and it could be a very similar or, or just almost identical experience and two different people can

01:05:13.020 interpret it completely different. And then that interpretation of that event is what causes us in

01:05:20.880 some small way to make different decisions moving forward. And so it's always interesting the way that

01:05:25.600 we interpret our experiences and then what that does to our potential future. That's always something

01:05:30.760 I'm, I'm very interested in and curious about. For sure. And I think everybody's different and

01:05:36.200 that's the beauty of it, you know? And, um, I, I don't know. It's, it's, uh, I don't know.

01:05:43.680 It's funny. We, we all have so many different kinds of friends that interpret things totally

01:05:47.520 differently. Right. But yeah, that's just my, my personal perspective of, um, yeah, it's interesting.

01:05:55.380 How does, uh, how does bow hunting come into the mix? Cause here's what I, here's what I envision.

01:06:00.100 And, you know, if I didn't know you better and maybe if I was just looking from the outside,

01:06:03.220 I'd be like, okay, well, you know, you have this hobby of, of, of archery and bow hunting,

01:06:07.540 but you're actually living your hobby. So it's like, like, how do you then shift or has this always

01:06:14.340 been part of your life? Cause I know hunting is big in Hawaii. So has bow hunting always been a big

01:06:18.740 part of your life too? No. So I didn't find hunting until I was about 30 years old. So I,

01:06:27.140 so I always lived pretty close to the beach and then it was always my dream to like live in this

01:06:32.180 area where I live now up on the mountain where, um, like now I live in a rain forest and I live at

01:06:38.100 4,000 feet elevation. So it's pretty far away from the beach. Um, and it was always my dream to live

01:06:43.120 there just as a beautiful place. There's a lot of, um, privacy and a lot of land. And I love the

01:06:48.860 rain forest. I like the weather and it's nice and cool up there in a fireplace. And so it was like

01:06:53.580 always my dream to live up there. And then when I moved there, all of a sudden I had this problem

01:06:58.400 with the wild boars at my house. So everything I planted, they would just dig up and they were just

01:07:03.680 digging up the forest all over the place and they were a nightmare. And so I was planting like trees

01:07:08.240 and plants and everything would just get dig up, get dug up. And so one of my, and I didn't hunt

01:07:13.560 at all. And so like one of my buddies gave me a shotgun and said, Hey, you shoot a couple of these

01:07:17.960 things and they'll leave you alone for a while. And so I didn't, I never owned a gun before. I never

01:07:23.900 had a gun. And so that's exactly what I did. I shot one with a gun and I realized immediately that guns

01:07:31.200 weren't my thing. Um, I didn't like the noise. I didn't like the, you know, just the racket they made.

01:07:37.160 Um, I didn't like the power and I didn't like how dangerous and scary they were to me.

01:07:43.440 Um, and so I immediately gave the gun back to my buddy. And, um, and then I met one of my,

01:07:49.520 I met one of my neighbors. This is right when I moved there. So I didn't really know anybody,

01:07:53.460 but I met one of my neighbors. He was a bow hunter. He had an extra bow. So I started going

01:07:58.200 over to his house in the afternoons and we'd have a couple of beers and he taught me how to shoot.

01:08:02.080 Um, and we'd shoot arrows in the afternoon and, and, um, I immediately got super hooked on it.

01:08:07.720 And then he was like, Hey, once you can group your arrows, um, like we can go hunt one day.

01:08:12.920 And so he took me hunting one evening and we hunted some pigs and I made a ton of mistakes,

01:08:17.140 but I instantly loved like that chess match between your skill level and what you were doing and all

01:08:23.380 the choices you're making in real time. And like, kind of like how that plays out with the animal and

01:08:28.560 the wind and the terrain and like trying to be sneaky and trying to be like a, you know,

01:08:35.080 that's the whole, that whole game was super interesting to me. And I was fascinated by

01:08:40.240 trying to get better at it and better at archery. And so that was how I got started at Bowen.

01:08:46.380 Yeah. I have a very similar experience. I mean, I started later in life. I only started three years

01:08:50.440 ago and I remember even in, in Arizona, we're down there together, you know, to see a deer and to

01:08:55.960 stock up on a deer that doesn't know you're there and your heart's beating and he doesn't know you're

01:09:01.380 there and you're trying to kill him and he's trying to stay alive and he's trying to outwit you and

01:09:06.200 you're trying to outwit him. Yeah. Regardless of the outcome. It's such a fascinating, wild experience,

01:09:12.540 man. I think you and I have very similar, uh, a very similar perspective on that, especially coming

01:09:17.560 into the game late. For sure. I mean, that's probably one of my, my biggest regrets is not finding

01:09:24.660 bow hunting earlier. And it was funny because I, you know, I found surfing extremely early and a lot

01:09:29.780 of people feel that same way about surfing that they just really, really wish that, um, they found

01:09:35.260 it earlier in life because it's so much fun. It's so easy to become passionate about surfing. And,

01:09:39.940 and I, that was always my first love, you know, and I still love surfing, but I never found anything

01:09:46.080 that could hold, hold, hold a candle to surfing. And then when I found bow hunting,

01:09:50.340 I fell in love with the mountains and, and I fell in love with, with walking in the mountains all

01:09:56.920 day long with my bow. And I, I always loved camping and being in the outdoors, but I never really had

01:10:01.080 a real reason to go do that. And so even though like, I love bow hunting and stuff, I'm, I almost

01:10:07.940 love camping and hiking and just being on adventures and spending, spending multiple days in the woods

01:10:13.160 in a tent. I just love that whole thing. So like the bow hunting part of it is super cool and I love it,

01:10:19.460 but, um, I love the whole experience of like either staying with friends and being in elk camp

01:10:25.340 together or deer camp or being on a backcountry bow hunt with friends and in tents or being completely

01:10:31.360 alone for a week in a tent and being in the woods on my own. I love all aspects of, of all those sort

01:10:37.280 of adventure hunts are definitely my favorite. Yeah. I mean, it sounds to me like you're very

01:10:42.180 obviously connected with nature and willing to explore and willing to engage. And I think that

01:10:47.580 there's a lot of power in that. And I think also that we've lost a lot of that too. We live in

01:10:51.500 these concrete jungles and we're always connected. Right. And, and we never take the time to appreciate

01:10:57.160 either the ocean or the mountains or the growth or the animals or whatever it is. And there's so much

01:11:02.140 power that can be found in those things, unplugging and, and going out and experiencing what the world

01:11:08.040 and nature has to offer for us. Yeah. It's, it's pretty funny because if I'm at home for a little

01:11:15.620 while and I'm being a jerk to my wife or I'm in a bad mood or I'm cranky and she doesn't know what

01:11:23.060 my problem is, she'd be like, okay, you got to go hunting soon. And then sometimes she'll just call

01:11:28.600 one of my friends and be like, Hey, you got to call Shane and take a hunting because he's being a dick

01:11:32.580 right now. It's pretty funny. And so she knows that like a large part of my sanity, a large part

01:11:43.760 of me being at peace and being in a great mood has to do with my consistency of hunting. And so I'm

01:11:49.880 very lucky to live in Hawaii, which is a place that I can hunt 365 days a year for every single

01:11:56.840 species, you know? So I'm extremely lucky. I don't have a hunting season. Hunting season is every day.

01:12:03.000 Right. I don't get to go every day, but the fact that I can just, you know, at four o'clock in the

01:12:08.940 afternoon, all of a sudden my buddy calls me, Hey, you want to go on a quick go on? Yeah. I'll just

01:12:12.500 jump to my truck and go meet him real quick or I'll really walk out my door and hunt pigs right

01:12:15.880 outside my house. So I'm extremely grateful for having those opportunities for sure. And it definitely

01:12:22.400 keeps my head on straight. I mean, it's such an amazing place to do it too. I remember, you know,

01:12:26.840 three years ago, I think I was in Hawaii and, and I'm hunting, but at the same time I'm walking

01:12:32.100 in a rainforest on a volcano, like, like you can't be, even if you're not seeing any animals,

01:12:40.600 you're just thinking as you're walking around this rainforest on a volcano in the middle of

01:12:44.900 the ocean that how can this be beat? This is absolutely amazing. What it is you're doing

01:12:50.000 right now. And then you get to harvest an animal and it just is that much better.

01:12:53.420 Yeah, I agree. It's, it's crazy. I mean, the, and the place that the animals live in Hawaii

01:12:59.920 is amazing. Like, uh, you know, just a couple weeks ago, I was bow hunting and I did a stalk

01:13:06.320 on this huge buck and I got to 61 yards and I was starting to draw and his does caught my

01:13:13.540 wind and they all ran. And I was upset because I just walked about a mile uphill. I glassed this,

01:13:19.580 this, this, this group of deer for about a mile and a half away. And I had to gain about 1200

01:13:24.480 feet of elevation and I was already pretty high elevation. And I blew the stock. I didn't blow

01:13:30.380 the stock, but like the wind blew the stock, but it took me about an hour and a half to get to where

01:13:34.620 that deer was of like straight, like trying to sprint because I was afraid he was going to go

01:13:40.020 into the forest where he was. And, um, it ended up not panning out. And I was, and I took a video

01:13:46.000 of myself, like a selfie video in the moment explaining what just happened. So I could relive

01:13:50.900 that moment years from now. And I remember just, I look back at it now. I'm like sweaty and pissed

01:13:56.120 off and all grumpy because I blew the situation. It almost happened. It was a monster buck and all

01:14:02.100 this stuff. And I was so frustrated. And then all of a sudden I just realized where I was and I did

01:14:07.820 like, I panned and I was like on the top of this mountain and the oceans in the background and you

01:14:12.180 could see the surf down below and just like rolling Hills. And I was just in the most beautiful

01:14:16.620 place in the world. And I was just like, I can't believe how lucky I am. Like, this is incredible.

01:14:21.120 I just blew the stock. The buck got away and I'm at a hundred percent happiness right now. You know

01:14:26.820 what I mean? It's just, it's so incredible that bow hunting gives us those moments, you know,

01:14:31.720 whether or not you come home with the animal has nothing to do with it, honestly.

01:14:36.120 Well, and then here you are speaking of that experience with fondness and good memories,

01:14:41.140 even though in the midst of things, it was very frustrating. Right. And you still speak

01:14:44.660 about it. It's usually, it's usually the, like the crappiest situations that create the best

01:14:49.720 stories. And then I don't know what it is about human beings, but we have this incredible ability

01:14:54.680 to forget how shitty a situation was and just remember those situations and the positives and

01:15:00.560 the benefits of, of everything that you just went through.

01:15:04.720 Yeah. I mean, anyone who bow hunts can relate. I mean, bow hunting can be incredibly frustrating.

01:15:11.460 It's amazing how many things can go wrong in a row. Yeah, for sure. I mean, oh, I, yes. When

01:15:21.580 I'm intimately familiar with that. If you are 10 yards away from a giant bull elk and you execute

01:15:28.340 a perfect shot and it goes in the perfect pocket and that elk goes 20 yards and keels over in front

01:15:35.380 of you, do you know how many things have to go right for that moment to happen?

01:15:40.440 Yeah. Like a hundred things in a row, like this went right. And then this went right. And then I

01:15:45.280 made that choice and this went right, the wind, the right thing. And then, so I went behind this tree

01:15:49.220 that went right. And then I covered that ground and went from a hundred yards to 70 yards. And then

01:15:54.020 his cows weren't looking at me. And then it's like a million little puzzle pieces have to fall into

01:15:58.500 place for that perfect execution of that opportunity and making the most of, of that crunch time under

01:16:05.240 pressure. It's just, that's what fascinates me about bow hunting is it's so damn hard. It's so

01:16:10.980 damn challenging. The odds are stacked against you. You have to get in range of like, despite the odds.

01:16:17.440 I mean, hunting access deer here in Hawaii is ridiculous. Like I was just hunting and I could,

01:16:24.020 I could not find a group of deer under 50. There was 50 deer minimum in a group.

01:16:30.020 Right. And which sounds really good, right? Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah.

01:16:33.000 They're everywhere. Ringing about having 50 deer.

01:16:36.260 Try to get in bow range of 50. If I had a, well, if I had a gun, I would have killed the five biggest

01:16:42.160 bucks in that group easily. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. They're all dead.

01:16:45.700 But, um, but it didn't work like that. I have to get 40 yards away. So, um, I was getting schooled

01:16:52.400 by these deer because there's a hundred eyeballs. Yeah. They're busting deer. And so that's what I

01:16:59.560 love about it. I love, I love how damn tough it is. So when you do have that moment, when you walk

01:17:04.700 up to your deer and it's time to get to work with your knife and, and, and the meat care and getting it

01:17:10.580 all feel dressed and, you know, taking care of that meat, when, when, when that moment happens,

01:17:15.780 it's just, it's so satisfying because so many things went right. I love that. I'm fascinated by

01:17:21.100 how many things have to go right to have that moment. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Well, I hope you

01:17:26.640 and I can get on another hunt soon. I'll be out there next year. Uh, we'll have to connect if we

01:17:30.340 can and make it work, but I'd love to hunt with you again. Shane, I really appreciate you, man. I

01:17:34.360 appreciate your perspective and all that you've done. I've been inspired by what you're doing. It's cool to

01:17:38.200 see, you know, the, the, the thing that I'm inspired by mostly out of all the things that

01:17:42.980 you've done and all the things that I've seen on Instagram and our, on our conversations is how you

01:17:48.120 lead your children. You know, I see that and I don't know if it's rare. I don't think it's rare,

01:17:52.580 but it's just something that we don't get to see a lot. And so for me to be able to see that and the

01:17:57.780 people that are connected with you to be able to see that, I think that's really, really powerful.

01:18:01.900 And I think it's a message and an action that needs to be shared more in society and

01:18:05.740 you're living it, man. So I'm honored we could have this conversation today.

01:18:10.800 Thanks a lot, man. I really appreciate it. And really fun to be on the show. And I agree. I mean,

01:18:14.680 it's funny because it's, it's happening everywhere. There's good dads everywhere.

01:18:20.280 There's good parents everywhere. I mean, we, we all know so many of them and, and, and there's so many

01:18:27.440 good dads that aren't on a podcast. There's so many good dads that aren't on Instagram. There's so many

01:18:31.860 good dads that, that aren't exposing that side of things. We're just inundated with all this BS.

01:18:38.040 And so you never get to see it, but it's happening all around us. And, and that's,

01:18:42.000 I feel like it's so important to just remember that, like a lot of the crap that we get fed all

01:18:46.980 day long, it's not reality. It's not the real deal. There, there's incredible parents out there

01:18:51.460 doing the right thing. And, um, I'm inspired all the time by, by people who, uh, don't live their

01:18:58.440 lives on social media. And then even though it's a part of my job and it's something that, um, I do

01:19:03.100 all the time. Um, I think it's important to, to, to, to, to watch shows and, and follow accounts and,

01:19:10.380 and watch podcasts that, um, you know, exposed to good parents and people who are trying to do the

01:19:15.400 right thing. Right on brother. We'll keep leading. Um, you and I'll stay connected. I'm looking forward

01:19:19.780 to building our friendship, but, uh, again, appreciate you. And, uh, thanks for taking some time today,

01:19:24.080 man. Sounds good, man. Let's go bow hunting soon. Absolutely.

01:19:29.000 Gentlemen, there you go. My conversation with Shane Dorian. I hope that you enjoyed that one.

01:19:32.760 I know I did. It was good to talk with him, uh, and, and, and learn a little bit about his backstory

01:19:37.980 and how he got into surfing and how he's overcome his fears and all the wonderful things he's doing.

01:19:42.780 I know he doesn't do a whole lot of podcast interviews. So, uh, which is unfortunate because

01:19:47.140 he's got so much great information to share. So we were honored to be able to, to have him on.

01:19:50.960 And I was honored to be able to spend some time with him earlier in the year. Uh, if you are interested

01:19:55.800 in what Shane is all about and what he's doing and what he's up to, I know a lot of you will be

01:19:59.140 then go connect with him on the socials, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, parlor, Tik TOK. I don't even

01:20:06.020 know if he has all those things, but, uh, you get it wherever you're doing the social media thing,

01:20:10.200 look into him, check him out. He's a great guy. He's a great human being, a great father and husband.

01:20:14.100 Uh, and of course a great surfer as well. So make sure you connect with him on the socials,

01:20:19.000 connect with me. Uh, I really got to tell you guys, I appreciate you leaving all the messages

01:20:23.840 for me primarily on Instagram. Cause that's where I'm most active. Uh, but, uh, yeah, I,

01:20:29.520 I appreciate the messages. I appreciate the shares. You guys are sharing the show. You're

01:20:34.300 taking a screenshot of you listening and sharing it. That goes a long way. Um, connect with me on

01:20:38.760 Instagram. I'm becoming increasingly more active on parlor. If you're not familiar with that,

01:20:42.900 you can go check that out. Um, that seems to be a pretty good platform of, uh, like-minded people

01:20:47.400 that, uh, are interested in growing. So you can check that out, uh, both Instagram and parlor

01:20:52.380 at, or at Ryan Mickler. So check it out. Connect with me. I try to get to everybody. I know I don't,

01:20:58.620 but I do try to make a conscious effort to get back with everybody who reaches out. So, uh, leave me a

01:21:03.620 message, share the show, leave a rating review, uh, wherever you're listening to the podcast.

01:21:08.040 And we will be back next week. I've got two, two phenomenal guests over the past,

01:21:12.220 uh, next couple of weeks. So they're all great. These guys are going to be outstanding. Trust me.

01:21:17.600 So make sure you subscribe. All right, guys, we'll be back, uh, tomorrow for the ask me anything

01:21:21.560 with my cohost, Kip Sorenson until then go out there, take action and become a man. You are meant

01:21:26.860 to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

01:21:31.700 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

01:21:42.220 Thank you.

Order of Man - December 01, 2020

Chasing Down Your Fears ｜ SHANE DORIAN

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