Order of Man - February 13, 2024


CHE ｜ From Prison to Patriarch


Episode Stats

Length

52 minutes

Words per Minute

208.04022

Word Count

10,952

Sentence Count

731

Misogynist Sentences

8

Hate Speech Sentences

8


Summary

In this episode of The Order of Man Podcast, Ryan Michler speaks with a man who spent 15 years in prison. He talks about his experience in prison and how he was able to use his time behind bars to grow and become a better man. He also discusses the perversion of modern masculinity and what it takes to overcome adversity.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Gentlemen, my guest today is a man who spent 15 years behind bars trying to figure out how to get out of the destructive patterns and habits he had acquired growing up with violence and gangs and drugs.
00:00:11.920 And although not all of us have been convicted and segregated from society, I think that each and every one of us can relate with what it takes to overcome adversity and setback.
00:00:21.920 He goes by the name of Che, and today we talk about emotional control, learning to forgive yourself for past wrongdoings, in what ways prison and in some ways the military can simplify life and make things easier, harnessing your desires for healthy outlets and healthy outcomes, the perversion of modern masculinity, and overcoming the path of no purpose.
00:00:44.640 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
00:01:09.960 Men, what is going on today? Welcome to the Order of Man podcast and movement. If you don't know me, my name is Ryan Michler. I founded this movement in March of 2015, so we're knocking on nine years right now, and I'm very excited that we continue to grow.
00:01:24.620 We continue to see our work expand, and we continue to see those of us who are listening and applying the information from our guests and the resources we have are improving themselves, that are improving their families, their communities, their businesses, their neighborhoods, and society as a whole.
00:01:40.860 And that is my goal, if you don't know. My goal is to reclaim and restore masculinity to its rightful place where it's respected and cherished and valued and honored and making ourselves capable of leading the way that our people need us to lead.
00:01:55.780 So, I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're banded with us in this mission to reclaim and restore masculinity, and I hope you enjoy this podcast.
00:02:03.120 Guys, before I get to my guest today, I do want to let you know that if we're speaking about other good people doing good things, I want you to check out MontanaKnifeCompany.com.
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00:03:06.740 Again, MontanaKnifeCompany.com. Use the code ORDEROFMAN.
00:03:10.720 All right, let me introduce you to my guest. He goes by the name of Che. He's the founder of the No Spoon Podcast and also the author of his newest book, The Freedom Doctrine,
00:03:21.220 which helps men confront and deal with demons and depression, anxiety, addiction, degeneracy, mental illness, so many things a lot of us have dealt with.
00:03:30.660 He spent 15 years in prison and through his sentence spent that time working on himself, improving his mindset, developing the skills to succeed in a world that is completely different than behind bars.
00:03:43.900 He goes into that a bit in this conversation, but he's doing great work on himself and also helping young men in his community to take a different path than he has.
00:03:53.960 Enjoy this one, guys.
00:03:54.660 Che, what's up, brother? Thanks for joining me on the podcast today.
00:04:00.220 What's up, Ryan? Thanks for having me, man. Great to be here.
00:04:02.840 Yeah, I know a little bit about your story with drugs and crime and gangs and a 15-year imprisonment.
00:04:09.800 And, man, I thought it was really important that we have this discussion because I know how many men are struggling with some of the same activities or maybe something different, but their past.
00:04:20.920 And they're finding it really difficult to overcome and remain trapped in the past.
00:04:25.240 But it seems to me that you've done a phenomenal job.
00:04:28.240 Of course, I don't know your full story, but a phenomenal job overcoming your past life and creating something entirely different moving forward.
00:04:34.300 Well, I'm trying. That's the whole point. You know what I mean? I'm trying to make it happen.
00:04:39.300 I think it's just you take it one day at a time. And the most important thing is you stop listening to the noise.
00:04:45.800 That's it. Just stop listening to the outside noise.
00:04:49.120 What was that noise for you? I mean, we'll get into your story of imprisonment.
00:04:52.920 But when you talk about the noise, is that mental baggage? Is that noise from other people?
00:04:59.060 Like, how did that manifest for you?
00:05:00.460 Well, for me, I think it was it was more internal, internal being in the sense of not being able to overcome certain things and situations that I found myself in.
00:05:14.300 A lot of my issues started when, you know, things didn't go the way that I thought they would go.
00:05:19.040 I was into sports. I was playing football. I thought I was going to get scholarships from all over the country and it didn't work out that way.
00:05:25.640 And then when that happened, you know, my life lost meaning. It lost purpose.
00:05:29.960 And so when that happens, it's so easy to gravitate towards other people who don't have a purpose.
00:05:35.460 And so we found a common purpose in, you know, negativity and criminal activity and hanging out, doing nothing and finding trouble to get into.
00:05:45.180 And so, you know, that was what that was my thing, internal thing.
00:05:49.780 I think now, you know, we're up against, you know, so much as far as an agenda to keep us, especially men.
00:05:57.480 I believe men are very, very much being attacked in that sense.
00:06:00.460 And the noise also now is compounded these days because there's a noise to keep men from trying to overcome their problems.
00:06:07.940 They would rather us just wallow in the misery and the sorrow of the things that we go through,
00:06:12.720 as opposed to learning that we can overcome these things and these feelings of, you know, rejection and, you know, not feeling like you're good enough.
00:06:22.620 These are temporary. You can overcome them.
00:06:24.920 You can actually transcend those things.
00:06:27.120 And I think, you know, the noise is like two parts now.
00:06:31.300 Yeah, so you're talking about the internal noise that we have.
00:06:34.220 And then also you say, you know, they, that there's an agenda.
00:06:37.920 Who do you think is leading that agenda?
00:06:40.040 What do you think that agenda is?
00:06:41.400 I mean, I think in part, I agree.
00:06:43.820 And I've really spent a lot of time thinking about, is there an actual coordinated agenda to undermine masculinity?
00:06:52.300 And I believe there is.
00:06:53.820 And I think it's coming from a few institutions, government, the medical fields and academia.
00:07:01.140 So I'm curious what you think about that and where it might be coming from, from your perspective and why even.
00:07:08.500 Well, you hit it all three on the head.
00:07:10.040 I mean, that's exactly where it's coming from.
00:07:11.780 Um, and I, and I also think, uh, entertainment as well.
00:07:16.080 If you're going to throw another, another institution in there, I think the entertainment industry, I think they're vital to this.
00:07:20.840 Um, I think what they're trying to, I, so when I talk to people about this agenda and people say, well, you know, why, why, why would men be targeted?
00:07:30.060 You know, is it because they're strong?
00:07:31.980 Is it because we can grow a beard?
00:07:33.560 Is it because of our genitalia or anything?
00:07:36.620 And I don't think it's any of those things.
00:07:38.080 I think it's the way that we process and the way that we think.
00:07:40.700 I think if you're trying to manipulate a person and just an individual person, you have to get them to think on an emotional level.
00:07:48.180 And so men, if you look at the two, you know, male and female, we are different, you know, despite what the world may tell you, we are different.
00:07:58.160 We both, we bring two different, uh, sets of qualities to the table.
00:08:02.540 And so a lot of those things start in the mind and how we process and how we think.
00:08:06.680 And men are more logical thinkers.
00:08:08.800 We think logically and that's what we bring.
00:08:10.700 If we're raising a family, my wife is going to provide the emotional nourishment that the child needs.
00:08:16.100 And I'm going to provide the logical reasoning that the child needs.
00:08:19.240 Well, the logical reasoning is the most important thing.
00:08:21.600 And this is why, you know, if we get biblical, God told us that man is the head of the household because we can bring both things together.
00:08:28.820 But at the end of the day, logic is always going to win.
00:08:31.960 I don't care if you feel like you can fly when you get on that third story building and you jump logic wins.
00:08:37.880 Your subjective feelings doesn't matter.
00:08:39.680 And I think what happens is, is that man is being attacked because they want people to be more emotional.
00:08:45.340 And the more emotional that you are, the more easily you are to manipulate because these are subjective feelings.
00:08:51.420 And so this is what's going on today is we've seen a coordinated effort by all those institutions that you mentioned to in order to manipulate and to take away the logical reasoning from the next generation.
00:09:02.000 And if you look at the generations, look at this next generation that's coming up, they're very emotional, they're very illogical.
00:09:09.540 And so when you're very illogical and very emotional, we can manipulate you.
00:09:13.100 We can put any type of doctrine that we want to put out there and people are going to accept it because they're not, there's no solid foundation.
00:09:19.920 And I think that's, if we're going to get to the root of the whole thing and the core of it, I think that's what the attack on masculinity is based on.
00:09:28.080 Yeah, I think it's, I think it's certainly a control play.
00:09:32.200 So you're talking about the emotional control of, of men in particular.
00:09:39.360 I also think that there's a real push to normalize degeneracy.
00:09:44.340 You know, you look, for example, you said the entertainment industry, look at the over-sexualization of the entertainment industry.
00:09:50.900 And this is nothing new.
00:09:51.920 I mean, this is going on as has been going on as long as I think humans have, you know, probably roamed the earth.
00:09:58.080 But because men are attracted to, to that, that the opposite sex.
00:10:03.180 Right.
00:10:03.520 But you look at that, you look at transgenderism, you look at multiple genders, you look at furries in the classroom and putting, you know, dog pads or grass in a classroom.
00:10:15.300 So kids can poop there.
00:10:16.880 It's this stuff's ridiculous and it's real.
00:10:20.320 And it's becoming normalized so much so that when you see this type of stuff, this filth and degeneracy, most people don't even bat an eye.
00:10:28.120 Well, I mean, because it demoralizes you, you know what I mean?
00:10:32.620 And we know that there's, there's no substance in degeneracy.
00:10:35.620 There's no substance.
00:10:36.740 I mean, I, I know I can speak for myself personally.
00:10:40.480 I've been on a path of no purpose and nothing.
00:10:43.040 Right.
00:10:43.380 So I've been on a path where I woke up in the morning, had nothing to do other than to, you know, roll a blunt, smoke weed, find something to drink.
00:10:52.600 I'd be drinking by 10 o'clock in the morning.
00:10:54.460 I'm already, I'm already there.
00:10:56.780 You know what I'm saying?
00:10:57.500 I'm finding now it's just trouble.
00:10:59.520 It's just calling different girls up.
00:11:01.120 Hey, what are you doing today?
00:11:02.380 And, and, and so all I'm, all I'm focused on is degeneracy and there's nothing there.
00:11:07.580 There's no, at the end of the day, it doesn't fulfill you.
00:11:10.960 But when I'm waking up at five o'clock in the morning, I'm, I'm praying, I'm reading, I'm studying, I'm going to work out.
00:11:19.000 I'm going to work.
00:11:19.960 I'm progressive in the sense of trying to make progress in my life.
00:11:24.860 There's a lot of fulfillment there.
00:11:26.740 So if we're, if, if we're just putting on degeneracy and, and you get demoralized, you start to lose hope.
00:11:33.460 There's nothing, there's nothing at the end of it.
00:11:35.560 And when you can see yourself actually building things, building companies, building businesses, building relationships, those types of things, building a family, those things bring real fulfillment.
00:11:44.900 And I think that, you know, we talk about the agenda and the agenda is to push people into this demoralization process.
00:11:51.720 And so that's one of the things I think is the most leading cause of the mental health crisis that we see going on today is that people don't feel like there's an answer to anything because the answers that they're seeking don't provide any type of substance.
00:12:05.180 So, yeah, there's a big push of degeneracy.
00:12:08.400 The sexualization, there's nothing there.
00:12:11.200 We've all been there.
00:12:12.200 You know what I mean?
00:12:12.640 We've all been to the point where we're looking for, you know, in the next woman, in the next drink, in the next high, in the next, whatever it is that's next for you.
00:12:21.180 So, real, real, you know, substance comes from actually doing something and building things.
00:12:28.180 And I think that they're trying to keep us from that.
00:12:30.700 Yeah.
00:12:31.140 Well, tell me a little bit about your story with regards to how you found yourself incarcerated.
00:12:36.140 Because if I understand correctly, you did 15 years in the California state penitentiary system.
00:12:42.020 Is that right?
00:12:43.440 Yeah, that's correct.
00:12:44.240 Yeah, 15 years.
00:12:45.180 From the age of 20 to 35, yeah.
00:12:47.200 20 to, and how old are you now?
00:12:49.260 I'm 40.
00:12:50.220 40.
00:12:50.580 So, you've been out of prison for five years, and you've made a big shift in that five years.
00:12:54.680 But I imagine there was a lot going on in prison to help you as well.
00:12:58.380 But let's back up, and let's talk about how you found yourself in that position and what led to that incarceration.
00:13:05.580 Like I said, I was, you know, I grew up in a two-parent household.
00:13:09.140 I grew up, you know, with Christian parents.
00:13:12.260 We went to church.
00:13:13.600 We were, you know, you weren't allowed to cuss.
00:13:15.780 You weren't allowed to watch certain movies or listen to certain music growing up.
00:13:18.820 You know, we were very disciplined in that sense.
00:13:21.440 But, you know, I grew up playing sports, and sports was a big part of my life.
00:13:26.600 And, you know, once I started playing football, that's all I wanted to do.
00:13:30.720 And I had a vision.
00:13:32.760 That was my vision.
00:13:33.540 I was going to play football, and that's where I was going to go with my life.
00:13:36.780 And when it didn't turn out the way that I wanted it to go, and I didn't get – I got a few offers, but I didn't get offers where I wanted to go.
00:13:44.420 I thought I would – I thought I could have done better.
00:13:46.560 I got a lot of – do a couple years in junior college, and then, you know, we'll see where you're at.
00:13:51.540 But, you know, this is the part I –
00:13:53.400 What was your modeling or performance on the field, or why those type offers versus going somewhere you had a desire to go?
00:14:00.580 A little of both.
00:14:01.240 Yeah, a little of both.
00:14:02.900 I think that they wanted to see how I would perform at the next level before they gave me a scholarship.
00:14:07.800 I played linebacker.
00:14:10.460 I'm about 5'10", 5'11", and so 5'10", 5'11", you don't really get, you know, looked at a linebacker like that.
00:14:17.640 Right.
00:14:17.860 And then I made the transition to defensive back in junior college.
00:14:21.640 But by that time, I was already, like – I had one foot in the streets and one foot out.
00:14:26.920 You know what I mean?
00:14:27.440 And I was already kind of leaning towards that way.
00:14:29.620 I didn't take it as serious as I should have.
00:14:31.880 And this is a part – like, this is what I'm saying.
00:14:33.620 Like, I was faced with an adversity.
00:14:36.400 I was faced with an unexpected obstacle.
00:14:38.700 And those things happen all the time.
00:14:40.600 That's life, right?
00:14:41.900 And so instead of responding to it and going the hard route and saying, okay, I'm going to – it didn't go the way that I wanted it to go, but it's still not over.
00:14:51.440 All I got to do is keep putting in working harder.
00:14:54.840 I decided I got really depressed.
00:14:57.580 I got really started to lose my focus and, you know, and just started getting into other things and then getting around people.
00:15:03.460 And like I was talking about in my book, you know, growing up in L.A., there's two people that are popular in schools, the athletes and the gang members, especially growing up in the 90s.
00:15:15.440 And so most sometimes they're one and the same.
00:15:17.900 A lot of times we know each other.
00:15:19.420 And I knew a lot of gang members growing up.
00:15:21.260 And, you know, so it was easy to go over there.
00:15:25.040 It was easy to kind of gravitate to them.
00:15:27.240 And they kind of offered something the same that I was looking for, which was another place where I can be somebody.
00:15:34.120 You know what I mean?
00:15:34.680 And I learned how to do that in that environment.
00:15:37.180 And that environment didn't last long because the law caught up to me.
00:15:42.020 And so I ended up getting involved in a shooting case that got me 17 years, but I ended up doing 15 off of it.
00:15:49.220 And so that's where I ended up in prison.
00:15:51.060 And so a lot of times when I talk to people, especially men going through the same things, I always say, you've got to recognize these patterns.
00:15:58.500 And so now I recognize these patterns.
00:16:01.120 Adversity is a given.
00:16:02.120 Struggle is a given.
00:16:02.900 Things aren't going to go the way that you want them to go.
00:16:05.080 That's how I ended up in prison.
00:16:06.300 And then prison was, it was an interesting ride in and of itself.
00:16:11.560 I went through a lot of different changes in there.
00:16:14.360 From personal philosophy, religiously.
00:16:17.380 At one point I was an atheist.
00:16:19.480 I was knee deep in Marxism.
00:16:21.780 I'm going to say knee deep.
00:16:22.640 I was neck deep in Marxism.
00:16:24.500 I thought that that was the way to go.
00:16:26.300 I was really, I gravitated to that.
00:16:28.620 Because it was militant, because it was anti-establishment, because it was, you know, everything that I wanted to be.
00:16:37.860 And most importantly, it gave me something else to point the finger at.
00:16:44.700 You know what I mean?
00:16:46.440 When you said you were in a shooting altercation or incident, was that like a rival gang thing?
00:16:53.200 Or was that attempted burglary?
00:16:54.920 Or, you know, what were the details of that?
00:16:57.000 It was a gang, it was a gang related.
00:16:58.740 Yeah, it was gang related.
00:16:59.500 And you, I'm assuming, what, you shot somebody?
00:17:01.700 Is that, is that what happened?
00:17:02.800 I was involved, I was involved.
00:17:04.080 I wasn't the actual shooting.
00:17:05.860 Got it.
00:17:06.120 So I was there, yeah.
00:17:07.280 And, you know, the way they do it is they don't, they don't look at it like, well, that person did this.
00:17:11.880 They look at it like you were all involved.
00:17:13.800 You were all there.
00:17:15.340 You know, it doesn't matter if it was 10 of us and nobody knew about it.
00:17:18.540 The way they look at it is if you, if, if they, and then they don't even have to prove that you were an actual gang member.
00:17:24.400 They just have to show correlation or relation.
00:17:26.640 Like you're hanging around this person.
00:17:29.140 He's a, he's a known gang member.
00:17:31.180 Therefore you are, and you did this and you were all involved.
00:17:34.280 It's just, you know, we don't understand these things.
00:17:36.960 We're out here doing this stupid stuff.
00:17:38.780 You know what I mean?
00:17:39.740 But they got, they got sets of laws for you, you know?
00:17:43.880 So did somebody die in that incident then?
00:17:47.000 No, it was, it was, they survived.
00:17:49.140 Yeah.
00:17:49.720 Okay.
00:17:50.160 I was curious if that's something that you wrestle with, you know, I, I, I, I've never been in that situation.
00:17:56.180 I don't know how many people who have other than, you know, military service, but I, I wonder what the weight of something like that is moving forward and how an individual progresses past that.
00:18:07.520 You know, even though they're a new person, there's still the history that they might latch onto and hold onto for a long period of time.
00:18:13.720 Of course.
00:18:15.600 Yeah.
00:18:15.860 I mean, yeah, it, it, it, it's not, it's not an easy thing to deal with.
00:18:20.580 You know what I'm saying?
00:18:21.220 You have to deal with the fact that somebody had their life completely altered, um, based on the actions of yourself and the people that you were around.
00:18:29.740 Um, I think that the best thing that I can do now, I can't change what happened.
00:18:35.460 Um, I'm, I'm sorry that it happened.
00:18:37.580 Um, I'm truly remorseful for what happened, but the best thing that I can do is.
00:18:44.260 Um, be of service now today, you know what I mean?
00:18:47.220 And so I think, I think the, the, the one thing that you have to do is you have to forgive yourself.
00:18:53.100 You can't keep beating yourself up over things that, that you can't control.
00:18:56.920 It's in the past.
00:18:58.120 I think that we've all done things that we regret, so to speak, but you have to be able to forgive yourself and move forward because you're no, you're no good.
00:19:06.240 And when you can see, when you, when you're just constantly living in that, um, you know, remorse and regret, you can be remorseful, but you're, you're, you have to show your life, improve your life through the service that you're doing now.
00:19:18.800 And that starts with first forgiving yourself.
00:19:21.000 So I, that was, that took a long time.
00:19:22.900 You know what I mean?
00:19:23.340 That took a long time.
00:19:24.280 And that's why I said, I gravitated to the ideologies that allowed me to point the finger at somebody else so that then I can say, well, I don't, I don't really need to be sorry.
00:19:32.980 It's not my fault.
00:19:34.320 It's capitalism's fault.
00:19:35.500 I don't know how that comes into play, but we, we play these mental gymnastics to try to say things.
00:19:40.440 It's the, my environment's fault.
00:19:42.280 It's my, my coach's fault.
00:19:44.180 My mom and dad's fault.
00:19:45.620 You're looking for everybody else because the reality is that you have to take accountability for what you did.
00:19:50.820 And that hurts.
00:19:51.920 You know what I mean?
00:19:52.680 It hurts to do that.
00:19:54.040 But once you can get past that, then your life is, you know, your, your life is free.
00:19:59.180 And that's why I took, you know, I named the book, the freedom doctrine, because real freedom comes from taking accountability for yourself.
00:20:05.500 Right.
00:20:06.200 Yeah.
00:20:06.580 And that's the hardest thing to do.
00:20:07.860 And sometimes people think with regards to accountability or responsibility that it adds and it's burdensome in their life.
00:20:13.720 And to a degree, yeah, understandable.
00:20:15.360 You have responsibilities that you have to take care of, but it's also very liberating in other ways.
00:20:21.240 I am curious how, you know, you did 15 years and without having the numbers and the data in front of me, it, at least anecdotally or intuitively, I believe that most people that go into a situation like that.
00:20:34.340 Don't end up changing for the better.
00:20:36.960 It just reinforces their poor habits and their poor belief system.
00:20:42.700 If that's true, you can tell me if it's not, but if that's true, how do you in 15 years navigate that environment and come out in a more healthy, productive mindset versus unhealthy, destructive mindset, which I imagine is where most people leave the prison system in.
00:21:00.900 Um, so, you know, they actually say that the more time that you do, the less likely you are to reoffend most guys, most guys that do like you have.
00:21:13.480 And that's basically because you get tired.
00:21:15.780 And I think it's also because as we get older, we get less aggressive, you get less, you start to, you know, and it does, it weighs down on you, bro.
00:21:23.880 Like it's really hard to, you know, you start to look at it and say, do I really want to go through all that again?
00:21:29.240 I mean, just the, the whole, the politics, the it's, it's really, really, you know, weighs down on people.
00:21:37.260 And I think what happens is a lot of times people get tired.
00:21:39.520 They just get tired.
00:21:40.380 They get tired of having to deal with the same thing over and over and the same, you know, most of the things that we impose upon ourselves in there.
00:21:48.140 And so, you know, I think, um, for me though, you know, I really had a, I really had the mindset of, I'm not going to, I'm not, I'm going to use my time wisely.
00:21:58.880 I used to always tell myself that my biggest fear was to be home, to get out and to wish I was back in.
00:22:05.480 And what I meant by that is wish I still had the time.
00:22:08.600 And that's, and so it made me not want to waste my time.
00:22:11.820 Um, I, like I said, I, I studied a lot of different things.
00:22:16.040 Some of the, most of it I don't agree with now, but I feel like it was part of the purpose.
00:22:20.180 You know what I mean?
00:22:20.880 It led me to where I'm at.
00:22:22.160 So I don't regret any of the things that I was studying and learning and even propagated at times.
00:22:26.900 I just, I see that as part of the, of the, it was part of the process I had to go through.
00:22:31.560 But, um, yeah, I mean, you have to really, you know, learn to detach yourself from that place.
00:22:37.300 Prison is a different world.
00:22:38.860 Completely different world.
00:22:40.280 There's a whole different set of rules.
00:22:42.020 There's a whole different, you know, mindset that goes into being there and you have to detach from it.
00:22:47.740 You know, um, I don't, I don't like to make this comparison, but you said you served in, in, in the military.
00:22:53.520 And I, I could imagine that there's a different set of rules.
00:22:56.920 There's a different mindset that has to take place in order to be a soldier.
00:23:00.660 And it's kind of similar to that.
00:23:02.560 I don't want to compare the two because I feel like, you know, two totally different
00:23:07.300 reasons for being there.
00:23:09.120 But what I'm saying is it's, it's, it's not like civilian life.
00:23:13.220 You know what I mean?
00:23:13.800 It's not like out here.
00:23:14.980 It's completely different.
00:23:15.980 So you have to learn to detach from that.
00:23:18.300 You have to kind of, when you're there, say, this is how I'm doing.
00:23:21.960 This is what I'm doing while I'm here.
00:23:24.700 And then once you step out of there, you have to leave it behind.
00:23:28.300 What, what was that transition?
00:23:29.560 Like, I'm actually curious about, you said your, your parents, uh, you grew up in a two
00:23:34.340 parent household.
00:23:35.140 Sounds like they were good Christians.
00:23:37.480 What, what is that process like?
00:23:39.140 As you're going through your sentencing, you're going through a 15 year prison sentence.
00:23:43.080 You know, are you still communicating with your parents?
00:23:44.960 And then what is that relationship like now with them?
00:23:47.800 Um, yeah, I, I communicated with them all the way through.
00:23:52.060 They're the only two that really didn't never left my side.
00:23:54.740 You know what I mean?
00:23:55.500 I'm not going to say the only, but one of the only two, um, they were there through it
00:23:59.700 all.
00:24:00.200 You know what I mean?
00:24:00.700 They seen it all.
00:24:01.680 And yeah, it was difficult.
00:24:03.600 I mean, it was difficult for, for, for them to have to see that I'm their first child.
00:24:07.920 I'm their only boy.
00:24:09.440 You know what I mean?
00:24:10.160 And to see me have to go through that, it, it weighed a lot on, on my family.
00:24:14.720 Um, I didn't really, I didn't really understand how much it weighed on them until I came home.
00:24:21.780 You know what I mean?
00:24:22.640 I remember, um, there was, there was a, and I was probably home for like a few weeks at
00:24:27.880 this time.
00:24:28.960 And, um, so when, when they, when I had got arrested, um, they were, they were interested
00:24:37.000 in the car that, and it was my mom's car.
00:24:40.020 And so they had pulled, they had came to the house, they had pulled me over.
00:24:44.820 I was already locked up.
00:24:46.420 And so they came and they hit, they raided the house, my mom's house.
00:24:50.540 Cause that's the address.
00:24:51.820 Yeah.
00:24:52.100 That's the address.
00:24:52.800 Were you living there at the time?
00:24:54.780 I was.
00:24:55.520 Yeah.
00:24:55.900 I was living there, you know, here and there I was running around.
00:24:59.320 And so, but that was the address that they had.
00:25:01.820 And, um, so when I, I remember we were going to, I was with my sister and we were going
00:25:09.100 to get, um, some ice cream or something like that.
00:25:12.180 And she was like, uh, she was, she pointed to a, uh, an apartment building that we passed
00:25:18.240 by and she says, you see that right there?
00:25:20.220 And I said, yeah.
00:25:20.960 And she said it kind of casually.
00:25:22.780 And, and she said, that's where they pulled me and me and mama over cops did.
00:25:27.120 And, and at that moment I was like, it kind of like hit me, you know, she, she, she was
00:25:34.560 past it.
00:25:35.180 Obviously my parents had been past it, but I didn't ever, because like I said, jail, I
00:25:41.100 was going through jail.
00:25:41.980 I was going to court.
00:25:43.000 Then I had to go to prison.
00:25:44.720 You, you don't, the best thing you can do when you're in that situation is you don't live
00:25:50.040 your life on the outside mentally.
00:25:53.280 Right.
00:25:53.720 So that means you really can't put a whole lot of time and energy into worrying about
00:25:57.900 what's going on outside, what's your family's going through, because there's so much going
00:26:02.480 on inside that you have to focus on what's going on here because that's, what's real.
00:26:07.500 You can't do anything about what's there going, if they can't pay the rent, what are you going
00:26:10.860 to do?
00:26:11.600 You know what I mean?
00:26:12.120 Except worry yourself and then put yourself in a bad situation and where you're at.
00:26:16.000 So I never had the opportunity to really process all that until that moment.
00:26:19.800 And I remember like, you know, it kind of hit me like, wow, I've really put them through
00:26:24.020 a whole lot.
00:26:25.260 You know what I mean?
00:26:25.760 And so it, it, it's, it's hard and it's difficult.
00:26:29.380 But nowadays, um, you know, my relationship with my mom and dad is, has never been better.
00:26:35.220 Um, we're really close.
00:26:37.460 They've really been there the whole way.
00:26:39.060 And it's, there's nothing better than to, for them to see, you know, me make a positive
00:26:46.760 change and, and really doing the things that they've always wanted me to do anyway.
00:26:52.800 Men, let me step away from the conversation very briefly.
00:26:55.760 Have you ever wanted to do more, but you don't know where to start?
00:26:58.700 Or have you ever wondered or wanted to band with other high quality men, but really don't
00:27:04.320 quite know how to do that.
00:27:05.460 Now, many of you are familiar with our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council, but I want to
00:27:09.580 tell you about another resource that is available and it's only available to two of you.
00:27:15.460 It's our three and a half day immersive experience in Southern Utah.
00:27:18.840 It's called the uprising and it's going to be held May 2nd through May 5th, 2024.
00:27:24.780 Now look, we only have two spots left.
00:27:26.780 So this is likely the last time that I'm going to talk with you about it until our next event.
00:27:31.000 But 20 men are going to meet me and our team for a few days, unlike anything you've ever
00:27:36.720 experienced.
00:27:37.360 We're going to test you.
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00:27:45.040 also an exact unique roadmap, or we call it battle plan for the remainder of 2024.
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00:27:56.740 Remember there's only two spots available.
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00:28:00.960 I would highly encourage for you to go check it out.
00:28:03.540 You can watch a short video and get registered at order of man.com slash uprising.
00:28:08.720 That's order of man.com slash uprising.
00:28:11.440 I hope to see you there.
00:28:14.340 Yeah.
00:28:14.820 I imagine they're pretty proud of what you've gone through and how you've overcome it and
00:28:19.400 where you are right now.
00:28:20.520 When, when you came home, I imagine what you probably live with them for a, for a period of
00:28:26.140 time.
00:28:26.460 Maybe, I don't know.
00:28:27.260 I don't want to put words in your mouth.
00:28:29.600 Did you, then did you go out and look for a job?
00:28:31.840 Like, what was that process of like, of transitioning back into ordinary everyday civilian life?
00:28:38.080 So, yeah, I lived with them for about a year.
00:28:40.200 I met my, my, she's now my wife, but I met her within like four months of coming home.
00:28:47.360 Really?
00:28:47.920 And so, yeah, yeah.
00:28:49.360 We met, we met, we met kind of, uh, quickly.
00:28:53.200 She actually lived around the corner from us.
00:28:55.060 And so what did she think about your history?
00:28:57.620 You know what?
00:28:58.160 She's all right with it.
00:28:59.140 You know, I, I actually, I remember like the first, like, I think we had been seeing each
00:29:04.280 other for like a week or two and I was more insecure with the fact that I lived with my
00:29:09.820 mom and dad.
00:29:10.380 I was 35 years old.
00:29:11.940 So I was kind of like, I didn't, you know what I mean?
00:29:14.000 I kind of felt like at 35, you should be established.
00:29:17.120 You should have things going on.
00:29:18.360 Why do you still live with your mom and dad?
00:29:19.740 So I really wanted to tell her so that she would understand and not look at me like
00:29:23.260 some bum or something like that.
00:29:25.000 So I remember telling her, I mean, she was cool with it.
00:29:28.180 She said, okay, well, that's fine.
00:29:29.680 You know what I mean?
00:29:30.200 That it is what it is.
00:29:31.420 If that's not, as long as you're not on that page anymore.
00:29:34.840 And so, you know, she's really the, she's really what keeps, you know, she keeps, she
00:29:40.580 keeps me in line, not to say that I have, I need to keep me kept in line, but she really
00:29:45.160 does.
00:29:45.600 I mean, she really grounded me.
00:29:46.720 Like she's really helped me to transition back.
00:29:50.340 Like you talk about transitioning back to civilian life.
00:29:52.360 She helped me to be normal, I guess you could say.
00:29:54.720 You know what I mean?
00:29:55.220 Like so many things that you just don't think of.
00:29:58.020 Like, I'll just give you an example, like celebrating birthdays.
00:30:00.600 Like I had forgot about birthdays.
00:30:02.060 Like I didn't really even care about them.
00:30:03.740 And now she's like, I remember the first birthday we were together.
00:30:06.000 She's like, what are we going to do?
00:30:06.880 And I was like, I don't know, nothing.
00:30:09.720 And she was like, no, we got to do something.
00:30:12.140 We got to do this.
00:30:12.940 You know what I mean?
00:30:13.420 And so, and she's, she's really like helped me to, you know, come out.
00:30:17.640 Cause it is, it is, it is different.
00:30:19.540 You know what I mean?
00:30:20.040 It's different.
00:30:20.620 It's different when you get out here.
00:30:22.240 It's different.
00:30:22.980 The people are different.
00:30:24.100 It's just, it's a whole different mindset.
00:30:26.320 And, and, and, and one thing I noticed when the biggest thing is, and it's interesting
00:30:30.760 is prison is easy because there's rules and you know, that when you step outside of these
00:30:36.780 rules are going to be consequences.
00:30:38.020 And a lot of those rules are kind of, are, I'm not going to say petty, but they are in
00:30:43.260 a sense of like, you know, out here people aren't as courteous.
00:30:47.740 People aren't as, you know, they don't, they're not as respectful out here.
00:30:51.380 You can be well-consequenced to, to doing that, right?
00:30:55.300 Yeah.
00:30:55.620 Right.
00:30:55.900 Yeah, exactly.
00:30:57.080 So it takes a minute to kind of like adjust and see how people are.
00:31:01.000 And you're like, Whoa, you know what I mean?
00:31:03.520 Like you just bumped into me.
00:31:04.900 You're not going to say anything.
00:31:05.840 And they just keep walking.
00:31:07.020 And you're like, well, you, you're out here now.
00:31:09.600 It's over.
00:31:10.060 You know what I mean?
00:31:10.440 You have to let that go.
00:31:11.720 Sometimes that's just how people are.
00:31:13.040 So it does take, it takes a minute to adjust.
00:31:15.640 It takes a minute to kind of, you know, step back and, you know, you'll deal with bosses
00:31:20.180 that you'll, that'll say things.
00:31:21.760 And you're like, wait, what?
00:31:24.260 That's not how this goes, but it is, you know what I mean?
00:31:27.160 And you have to just take it for what it is.
00:31:28.620 So it, you know, I've had family, you know, my wife has really helped me, you know, and,
00:31:34.260 and, and still a process to this day, but I think I've, I've, I've made, you know,
00:31:38.300 pretty significant strides.
00:31:40.580 What, what is, what was the process like of getting a job?
00:31:43.600 Was that difficult?
00:31:44.560 Was that a challenge or was it entry-level stuff where, you know, your incarceration wasn't
00:31:49.440 as big of an issue as it might be somewhere else?
00:31:51.340 What was that like?
00:31:52.200 It's not difficult at all.
00:31:53.920 You know, that's one of the things I like to, like when I work with guys that have got
00:31:57.140 out of prison, that just got out of prison and stuff like that, we have a re-entry program
00:32:00.280 that I run out here in, in LA.
00:32:02.820 And I, I think that that's, that's part of the, that's, that's part of the myth, right?
00:32:10.240 That it's, they tell you it's going to be really hard to get a job.
00:32:13.320 It's going to be really hard to get a job.
00:32:14.700 When I came home, I went to a, a, a transitional housing, which was like a halfway house that
00:32:20.080 I was there for about nine months.
00:32:21.880 I was there.
00:32:22.760 Um, there's about 200 men in there.
00:32:26.140 Everybody got jobs if you wanted it.
00:32:28.400 You know what I mean?
00:32:28.900 Like if you chose to get a job, it was not hard to get a job.
00:32:31.760 I got it.
00:32:32.180 The first job interview I went on, I got, you know what I mean?
00:32:35.340 And so the, actually the first job interview I got, I went on.
00:32:38.760 The only reason I couldn't get the job was because of the restrictions of the place I
00:32:42.140 was living in, but they offered me the job.
00:32:43.820 It was just, all it was, was at a, at a, um, it was interestingly enough, it was like
00:32:48.520 in Santa Monica on at a Maserati dealership.
00:32:51.640 They wanted me to just watch, yeah, wash the cars, make sure that they were detailed
00:32:55.400 at ninth and everything like that.
00:32:56.680 But the thing is, they wanted me to drive from there to Beverly Hills.
00:32:59.900 And I wasn't allowed to do that in the, in the, the, the house that I was living in.
00:33:04.440 But, and I really, I really went in there and I sat down in front of the guy and he looked
00:33:09.420 at my resume and everything like that.
00:33:11.140 And I said, I'm just going to tell you straight up, this is the situation.
00:33:14.740 And I just told him, I just told him, I said, this is the situation.
00:33:17.480 This is where I was at.
00:33:18.860 This is what was going on.
00:33:19.920 And I said, you know, and I just kind of just presented my case, you know what I mean?
00:33:24.480 And he said, he looked at me and he said, man, I respect that.
00:33:27.780 I respect that you, that you told me, I respect that you were man enough to say what it is.
00:33:31.760 He goes, matter of fact, one of my best friends is in that situation.
00:33:34.620 So I don't look down on you for it.
00:33:36.600 And he really went out of his way to try to find me a job.
00:33:39.520 And I just couldn't because of the restrictions.
00:33:41.580 And he said, man, come back when you, when you, you know, when you get out of there, I'll
00:33:44.960 have a job for you.
00:33:45.900 But I ended up doing other things, you know what I mean?
00:33:47.940 But I just felt like, you know, it's, it's not difficult.
00:33:51.080 I think we put the difficulty on ourselves by telling us how it's going to be so hard
00:33:55.940 and it's going to be, you're going to look, I think that, you know, if, if you know how
00:34:01.120 to, you know how to speak and you know how to present your case and you know how to speak,
00:34:04.520 articulate yourself and you really go in there with an attitude of, you know, I'm here to
00:34:09.420 make a difference.
00:34:10.000 I'm here to, I'm here to help your company.
00:34:12.800 People will give you a shot.
00:34:14.280 They really will.
00:34:15.380 Yeah.
00:34:15.760 That's interesting.
00:34:16.500 I'm also interested because I've experienced this as well, obviously in a different context,
00:34:21.040 but when I was in Iraq, I was in Iraq in 2005 and 2006, it was hard in a lot of ways,
00:34:26.860 right?
00:34:27.100 Just, I mean, prison's got to be hard in a lot of ways.
00:34:29.900 Being in Iraq was hard in a lot of ways, but also there was a simplicity to it.
00:34:33.660 You know, I was told what time I need to get up, what time I need to get into work,
00:34:37.940 what I'm going to wear every single day, where I'm going to live.
00:34:40.500 I don't have to pay any bills.
00:34:41.800 I don't have to worry about any responsibilities outside of my duties and my job there.
00:34:45.600 Like there's a lot of simplicity in that.
00:34:47.880 And I found that when I got home, it was, it was very strange because there was nobody
00:34:53.800 telling me what to do, when to do it, how to do it, or why it was just, Hey, you're
00:34:58.540 whatever, do whatever you want now.
00:35:00.460 And it's like, Oh, I don't really know what to do with that.
00:35:03.960 You know, and that, that was kind of a challenge for me.
00:35:06.340 The other challenge that I had was seeing the, the petty bullshit and nonsense that people
00:35:13.160 were wrapped up in because I knew the gravity and the seriousness of the situation I was
00:35:17.980 in.
00:35:18.180 Did you experience anything like that?
00:35:20.860 Oh, definitely.
00:35:21.660 Yeah, definitely.
00:35:23.060 The, the day-to-day stuff, like you said, yeah, that, that kind of, it's, it's, it weighs
00:35:30.100 on you.
00:35:30.380 I think that's the problem with a lot of guys, why they like to go back, they go keep going
00:35:33.600 in and out of jail because they know what they're going to expect in there.
00:35:37.540 It's really simple out here.
00:35:38.920 Everything is on you.
00:35:39.940 A lot of people don't want that responsibility.
00:35:41.580 Um, I think the, uh, like you said, getting wrapped up in the pettiness of things, you
00:35:48.000 don't really see, like for me, for example, I really felt like a lot of people are very
00:35:53.420 ungrateful out here, right?
00:35:54.980 They lack gratitude for what they have.
00:35:57.220 And it's only because of the situations that I've been in where you didn't really have anything.
00:36:02.320 And so now it's like, you, you take it all in.
00:36:04.960 I take, I take it all in now.
00:36:06.800 You know what I mean?
00:36:07.560 I take it all in anytime I'm doing something, um, my wife and I have been, you know, blessed
00:36:12.540 enough to travel.
00:36:13.420 We went to Hawaii last year for the first time I had ever been there.
00:36:16.240 We spent a week there and actually was, we, we've been there twice since I've been home.
00:36:21.120 And it's like, I try to, in those moments of sitting on the beach, I try to sit there
00:36:26.940 and just remember what it was like to not have that and just really be appreciative of
00:36:32.040 this, you know what I mean?
00:36:32.980 And this opportunity and not to waste it.
00:36:35.060 And then, you know, I still talk to some people that are still there that aren't coming home
00:36:39.040 and, you know, they always kind of remind me like, keep, keep doing what you're doing,
00:36:43.660 man.
00:36:43.800 Keep going hard because you're, you, you don't want to be in this situation.
00:36:47.580 You remember what this was like.
00:36:49.100 So I think that's, you know, it takes, yeah.
00:36:51.920 And then you, it does kind of irritate, it irritates you with people.
00:36:55.100 You're like, man, why are you worried about this stuff, man?
00:36:57.040 You have so much opportunity that you're just sitting here wasting it.
00:37:00.300 And another thing, and I don't know, I'm pretty sure you can relate to this.
00:37:03.800 This is one of the things that, that still is kind of hard to get over.
00:37:06.980 One of the things that I miss, um, as funny as it might sound that I miss is the camaraderie
00:37:13.800 that you have with other, other people in there.
00:37:17.480 You know what I mean?
00:37:18.180 Just the fact that we're going through this situations.
00:37:20.140 I met, I had had great relationships that I made with men that were going through this
00:37:24.400 situation.
00:37:24.900 And we all kind of felt, um, you know, a connection based on that.
00:37:29.960 And so out here, you don't, it's hard to, it's hard to get, it's harder to duplicate.
00:37:35.060 And so sometimes you kind of, you kind of, you miss it.
00:37:37.860 You miss that, that closeness, that bond that you have with other men in a way that you're
00:37:42.980 not going to get from other people out here.
00:37:45.600 Yeah.
00:37:46.060 Yeah.
00:37:46.340 You have to, I found that to be true.
00:37:48.680 And even a lot of the guys that I talk with, and I imagine a lot of the guys that listen
00:37:52.640 to you and resonate with what you're saying, you have to, you have to manufacture that
00:37:58.880 outside of sports.
00:38:00.540 You know, I, I grew up playing sports in high school.
00:38:02.540 I never went on to play college like you did, but high school football was a big thing
00:38:06.200 for me.
00:38:07.360 Um, you know, you get it there, you get it in the military.
00:38:09.360 And I imagine also, you know, gang activity, prison system, that camaraderie, it's not,
00:38:15.520 it's not necessarily healthy, but it's there, it's present.
00:38:19.140 Uh, and when, when you don't have those things, which most grown men don't, then you actually
00:38:25.440 have to go out of your way and exert yourself to, to create a brotherhood around you.
00:38:32.040 Yeah.
00:38:32.680 You know what?
00:38:33.640 It's interesting that you say that, especially when you talk about the gangs or the prison
00:38:36.880 and stuff like that.
00:38:37.620 I really think that, you know, when we talk about this agenda on, and masculinity and stuff
00:38:43.920 like that, see, there are, there are certain things that are innate in men, right?
00:38:47.500 We have an innate desire and need to protect.
00:38:51.820 We have an innate desire and need to provide.
00:38:54.320 We have an innate desire and need to be of, of, of, of what's the word I'm looking for?
00:39:00.300 A, a, uh, asset to your community.
00:39:03.140 Right.
00:39:03.760 And so, and that desire is there.
00:39:06.380 Like we want to hunt, we want to go out there.
00:39:08.340 We want to get dirty.
00:39:09.180 We want to, if somebody is coming through our, our house, we're going to defend it.
00:39:13.560 If somebody is trying to attack the kid down the street, we want to defend that kid.
00:39:17.840 We want to be able to, to fight to a certain extent.
00:39:20.640 If me and you were out in public somewhere and you know, I just met you, but if we were
00:39:25.300 together and a group of guys came in and approached you, I wouldn't just back down and be like,
00:39:30.100 well, that's your business.
00:39:31.220 You know what I mean?
00:39:32.020 My, my innate desire is to step up and be with you and then we'll figure it out later.
00:39:36.260 You know, like we have that within us.
00:39:38.080 It's like a, it's, it's a, it's a, it's an instinct that we have.
00:39:41.520 And so when I look at like gangs, I don't look at gangs as, as, as, as what it is.
00:39:47.120 Yes.
00:39:47.540 It's not healthy.
00:39:48.740 Yes, we do.
00:39:49.540 We do wrong.
00:39:50.540 But I think that what it is that, that these men are looking for is that purpose.
00:39:56.000 We're looking for that purpose.
00:39:57.140 We want to defend, like we want to sit here and they say, Hey, these guys came down and
00:40:00.760 they shot up the house down the street.
00:40:02.380 Oh, well, I want to go out there and I want to defend that.
00:40:05.020 And so I think what happens now is that we don't have the proper channels.
00:40:08.320 They're not giving these, these kids a proper channels in which to, to, to, to channel that
00:40:13.220 aggression and channel that, that desire that they start to pervert it.
00:40:17.020 And so now you're seeing this is what I call, this is like perverted masculinity.
00:40:21.280 It's, we don't know how to use it, but it's there.
00:40:24.220 We're aggressive.
00:40:25.460 We want to, we want to protect, we want to hunt, and we don't know how to do it because
00:40:30.780 we are not showing the proper ways to do so.
00:40:33.480 So we're doing it in this warped kind of negative way of doing it.
00:40:37.560 You understand what I'm saying?
00:40:38.680 It's like, it's just kind of, it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a weird sense.
00:40:42.340 And I, and I see that now.
00:40:44.040 And I see that even when people try to reform like gang members or criminals and stuff like
00:40:49.940 that, it's almost like they try to take the fight out of them.
00:40:53.080 And I don't want to take the fight out of you.
00:40:55.060 I just want you to redirect it in the, in the, in a better way.
00:40:57.880 You know what I mean?
00:40:58.420 In the healthy way, in the way that, that God gave you to, to use it.
00:41:02.340 You're supposed to use it to defend your family, to defend your community, defend your people.
00:41:07.480 That's how you're supposed to use it.
00:41:09.340 But I don't, you know, this, if you, if you go through a lot of the rehabilitation programs
00:41:14.480 and in prison, it's almost like they just want to, they want to beat you until you're
00:41:18.820 submissive.
00:41:19.760 And I don't think that's, I think you're just creating a whole nother monster there.
00:41:23.560 Yeah, I think that leads, cause you talk a lot about this mental health epidemic and
00:41:27.920 I think feminizing men, telling them to sit down, shut up, do what you're told, color
00:41:33.340 within the lines, don't take risks.
00:41:35.300 You know, don't, don't be competitive.
00:41:37.120 Don't be aggressive.
00:41:39.100 That just leads to, that doesn't lead to less of that.
00:41:42.480 That leads to repressed and bottled up masculinity, which at some point is going to seep through.
00:41:48.500 And in a lot of instances, it's going to seep through in at a minimum unhealthy ways.
00:41:53.260 And at a maximum dangerous and destructive ways.
00:41:55.360 This is why we see young boys who don't have father figures or male role models in their
00:42:00.620 lives.
00:42:01.100 What do they do?
00:42:01.920 They get medicated and then they go shoot up schools.
00:42:04.040 Like, this is not a difficult concept to wrap our heads around.
00:42:08.300 The real question is, what do we do for our young men?
00:42:12.260 Because we, you're right.
00:42:13.140 I believe you're right.
00:42:14.100 We have to have these institutions, but they're being dismantled systematically as well, or infiltrated.
00:42:20.360 One great example of that is the Boy Scouts.
00:42:23.260 And I've been for years, years, and probably a decade at this point, talking about the
00:42:27.200 demise of, of the Boy Scouting program.
00:42:30.200 I had people laugh at me, mocking me, mock me, say I was stupid for saying this.
00:42:34.260 And then not only a few years later, now all of a sudden women want to be in Boy Scouts
00:42:39.360 and the, the systems that they had in place and the codes and the principles and the morals.
00:42:44.080 Like we don't live, abide by that anymore.
00:42:45.820 Like that is being systematically torn down churches.
00:42:49.100 You see church attendance dwindling for men.
00:42:52.080 This stuff is being eroded before our eyes and it's not going to lead to anywhere healthy.
00:42:57.460 Not at all.
00:42:58.460 I mean, that's exactly what's going on.
00:43:00.120 And it's, it's creating, like you said, this is the, this is the reason why we see such
00:43:05.640 a spike in the mental health problems.
00:43:07.900 I mean, it, it, it serves the pharmaceutical companies.
00:43:11.020 It really does because we just go and we get, they just tell us to get medicated.
00:43:15.540 You know what I mean?
00:43:16.280 And they know what they're doing.
00:43:17.400 They know that this is, this is a, a, a, a recipe for exactly what we're seeing happening.
00:43:22.520 Like you said, they just, they get medicated.
00:43:25.360 Then they go and they shoot up schools.
00:43:27.140 They do all this, you know, they become very effeminate.
00:43:30.240 They become useless to a certain extent to where they're not even providing any kind
00:43:35.420 of benefit to their family.
00:43:36.960 They're not even being able to raise a family.
00:43:39.460 I mean, you can't keep kicking men down and thinking that it's going to be a good thing,
00:43:45.720 that they're never going to respond.
00:43:48.120 They're never going to lash out.
00:43:49.800 It's going to happen.
00:43:50.920 And every time that happens, they say, see, this is proof why we need to continue to kick
00:43:54.680 them down.
00:43:55.140 And, but this is what we're, this whole system has, has now deviated to, we're doing
00:44:01.780 unnatural things.
00:44:03.360 You know, like I said earlier, men and women are different.
00:44:06.160 We have our places for a reason.
00:44:08.480 And what you're trying to do is force men into a box that they're not comfortable with
00:44:14.480 and they're not built for, and it's not within their nature.
00:44:18.280 And so what you're seeing is some men are conforming, but even their conformity is, is a perversion
00:44:23.560 and it's, it's destroying our society.
00:44:26.040 So in order for us to get back and get back to where we're supposed to be, we have to
00:44:30.500 start building institutions, men like yourself, men like myself and other people that are
00:44:34.640 out there.
00:44:35.100 We have to start using our voice and using our platforms to get these men and see that
00:44:40.240 there's another way and then make it to where they're not afraid.
00:44:43.640 You know what I mean?
00:44:44.080 Men can't be afraid to say that I'm a man and I stand on, on my masculinity and this is
00:44:49.400 how I am.
00:44:50.180 And if you don't like it, oh, well, cry all you want.
00:44:52.820 You know what I mean?
00:44:53.800 We have to stop giving these people so much power by, by acknowledging their grievances
00:44:59.100 that are really just grievances that are trying to manipulate you to give them their way.
00:45:04.180 Yeah.
00:45:04.780 Yeah.
00:45:05.180 Well said.
00:45:06.060 Tell me a little bit about your, the re-entry program that you run.
00:45:09.560 Cause you, you had said that you, I don't know if you started something or got involved
00:45:12.640 with something, but that's pretty cool to see that you turning around and helping other
00:45:16.860 people who are in a situation you were in helping them navigate that because you're a little
00:45:21.500 bit further out ahead than they are.
00:45:23.640 So, um, it actually started through the church that I attend, Peace Chapel of LA.
00:45:28.040 Um, it's over on 76th Avalon and it's in, um, it's in the heart of LA.
00:45:33.060 Anyways, it's, uh, I was actually, I didn't go to the church first.
00:45:37.700 They, the pastor there, uh, DeAntoine Fitz, he had read some articles that I had written
00:45:42.640 and reached out to me and was like, look, this is what I'm doing.
00:45:47.100 I want to put together a program for men.
00:45:48.860 We're in the process of buying a, uh, a halfway house and we're going to start a, uh, a program
00:45:54.800 through that halfway house.
00:45:56.040 And I want you to be involved in it.
00:45:57.940 So I do it every Saturday.
00:45:59.020 We run a class from nine 30 to 11, right there at the church.
00:46:02.820 Um, we have men coming from the halfway houses that come and, and really it's just about,
00:46:08.400 um, you know, getting us to be able to, to be comfortable with the situation that we're
00:46:15.240 in and how are we going to overcome it and to see things in a different level.
00:46:18.860 A lot of times these men, it's like they're, they're stuck in this box of, this is the type
00:46:23.520 of people I need to be around.
00:46:25.200 This is how I have to dress.
00:46:26.400 This is how I have to talk.
00:46:27.560 And what I try to do is get them out of that and say that there's a whole different side
00:46:30.940 of life.
00:46:31.600 And it doesn't matter how many years you did in prison or how much drugs you were addicted
00:46:35.760 to.
00:46:36.300 You can overcome that and we can start to become the men that we were supposed to be.
00:46:40.760 So we do it every Saturday.
00:46:42.160 It's been going great.
00:46:43.100 It's been almost two years now that I've been doing it.
00:46:45.600 Um, we're planning on expanding and doing some bigger things this year.
00:46:49.040 Uh, and it's, it's a, you know, it's it, and it, and going back to the point I said earlier
00:46:54.000 about the camaraderie, it kind of has really hit help with that as far as for me personally,
00:46:58.220 you know what I mean?
00:46:58.760 I always tell them that, that I get a lot out of it because I'm around people that understand,
00:47:02.780 you know, that struggle that we come from and we're able to kind of build bonds through
00:47:07.960 that and try to help each other overcome it.
00:47:10.740 Yeah.
00:47:11.200 Yeah.
00:47:11.380 That's powerful.
00:47:11.960 Well, brother, I appreciate the work that you're doing.
00:47:14.540 It's awesome to be able to connect and learn and hear about more of your story.
00:47:17.600 And I know a lot of the men are going to resonate whether they've been in your exact situation
00:47:21.100 or something different.
00:47:21.920 They can see how they can overcome those odds and make themselves better in spite of their
00:47:26.260 history.
00:47:27.080 Uh, tell, tell the guys where to connect with you.
00:47:29.120 You've got a podcast called no spoon podcast.
00:47:31.220 And then you've got your first book, which is called the freedom doctrine.
00:47:33.720 I think that's book one of, I don't know how many, but, uh, tell the guys a little bit
00:47:38.780 about that and then, uh, where they can connect with you.
00:47:41.280 So you can go to my YouTube, the no spoon podcast.
00:47:45.000 Um, I put videos up all the time.
00:47:47.000 Uh, you know, it's going to get back to running a weekly live show.
00:47:50.560 We talk about culture, politics, and common sense.
00:47:53.180 That's the, that's the tagline behind it.
00:47:55.420 My book is called the freedom doctrine book one.
00:47:58.200 Um, the reason it's book one is because it's going to be a series.
00:48:01.120 And this book is just basically telling my story so you can see where I was coming from.
00:48:04.680 And I'm going to get into, I really wrote this book because I wasn't happy with the
00:48:09.180 rehabilitation programs that they had for men that were coming out in prison and addiction
00:48:13.640 and stuff like that.
00:48:14.560 I really think that we need to get back to the, to, to, I always say this, that when it comes
00:48:19.000 to those types of institutions, a lot of them are ran by women and I don't have nothing
00:48:23.400 wrong with women, you know, giving their input.
00:48:25.920 But what I'm saying is that sometimes, and I think society is doing this a lot that we're
00:48:30.420 having, we're trying to give feminine answers to masculine problems.
00:48:34.740 And so what I wanted to do was write a program.
00:48:37.640 And this whole series of books is going to be based on that is how we can start giving masculine
00:48:42.160 answers to masculine problems and start dealing with it as men and how men see the world.
00:48:47.040 And so, you know, you can read this book if you're in any situation, you don't have to
00:48:51.160 have been in prison or on drugs.
00:48:52.600 You could just be in a situation where you just feel like your life is at a standstill,
00:48:56.700 or you don't feel like as a man, you're getting your, you know, your voices being heard and
00:49:01.660 being able to live out your purpose.
00:49:03.680 And even women can benefit from this book as well.
00:49:06.040 You know, just being able to see where we fit in, into the proper scheme of life.
00:49:10.480 But it's called the Freedom Doctrine book one.
00:49:13.140 It's available as an ebook right now.
00:49:15.700 I'm going to bring, release the paper book at the end of the month, but it's available
00:49:18.780 on Amazon.
00:49:20.060 You can go and look it up.
00:49:21.220 Just put in the Freedom Doctrine book one.
00:49:23.020 It'll come up.
00:49:24.500 Yeah.
00:49:25.640 Look, look for me on Instagram, Che underscore uncensored.
00:49:29.460 Twitter, No Spoon Podcast.
00:49:31.900 I have a sub stack that I'm trying to, I'm really trying to get going as well.
00:49:35.700 It's called Che Writes.
00:49:36.880 That's W-R-I-T-E-S.
00:49:40.280 Where I'm putting out articles at least once or twice a week.
00:49:44.100 So.
00:49:44.880 Awesome, man.
00:49:45.340 All that going on, man.
00:49:46.040 We'll sync everything.
00:49:46.700 Yeah, you are.
00:49:47.340 You do.
00:49:47.680 That's awesome.
00:49:48.200 I love to see it because you're doing good work.
00:49:49.860 And we'll sync everything up so the guys know where to go.
00:49:52.240 Che, I appreciate you and you taking some time.
00:49:54.380 You know, it's not always fun or easy to talk about these things.
00:49:56.660 Obviously, you do because this is the nature of your work now.
00:49:58.940 But I appreciate you being willing to put that stuff out there and talk about the past
00:50:03.600 that I imagine, you know, you're not totally proud of, but you got to be proud of what
00:50:07.100 you've overcome.
00:50:07.900 So I thank you for that and your example.
00:50:10.420 Well, I appreciate you, man.
00:50:11.280 I thank you for having me on.
00:50:12.220 I like what you're doing over, you know, with your show and everything like that and the
00:50:16.400 things that you have going on, man.
00:50:18.060 And it's great to connect with like-minded individuals, even if we come from different
00:50:23.220 backgrounds and different walks of life.
00:50:24.760 I like to say that, you know, these principles and these values, they transcend.
00:50:29.960 So it doesn't matter whether you're in the military, you were in prison, you were in
00:50:33.160 gangs, you were in sports, you're just living, you know, working a nine to five job, the
00:50:37.600 same principles that for success are there no matter what.
00:50:41.120 And so we can use them no matter what situation we've been through.
00:50:44.520 Right on.
00:50:44.760 Thank you, brother.
00:50:45.920 I appreciate that, bro.
00:50:46.960 Have a good one.
00:50:49.940 Gentlemen, there you go.
00:50:50.780 My conversation with Che.
00:50:53.020 I hope you enjoyed it.
00:50:54.120 It was a really fascinating discussion for me.
00:50:57.300 I felt like we were friends and we've known each other for a long time, just talking about
00:51:01.220 his unique experiences of life.
00:51:02.980 And my hope for myself and for you is that we walk away with information or a mindset
00:51:09.420 shift that will help improve our lives and in turn, the lives of the people that we care
00:51:13.320 about.
00:51:13.620 So go connect with Che.
00:51:15.080 Listen to the No Spoon podcast.
00:51:16.620 Pick up a copy of his latest book, The Freedom Doctrine, and make sure if you take a screenshot
00:51:21.600 real quick and let other men know what you're listening to, tag me, tag Che, and let's continue
00:51:27.060 to spread the mission of reclaiming and restoring masculinity.
00:51:30.580 We need more men in this battle.
00:51:32.100 We need you in this battle.
00:51:33.280 So please share it.
00:51:34.380 Leave that iTunes rating and review or wherever you happen to be listening.
00:51:37.680 Go check out MontanaKnifeCompany.com.
00:51:40.820 And the last thing that I want to share with you today is to check out again, our uprising
00:51:46.720 experience.
00:51:47.400 Remember two spots left, OrderMan.com slash uprising.
00:51:51.360 All right, gentlemen, you've got your marching orders.
00:51:53.400 We will be back tomorrow for our Ask Me Anything.
00:51:56.120 Until then, go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.
00:52:00.240 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.
00:52:04.580 If you're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be,
00:52:08.600 we invite you to join the order at OrderOfMan.com.
00:52:11.740 To be continued in st paragraphs.
00:52:32.080 Order of Man.
00:52:36.080 To be continued...