Order of Man - August 20, 2025


Choosing Your Battles, Finding God in Hardship, and Owning Your Addictions ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

Topics
test adversity and growth mindset chain of command hard conversations
Hosted by
Ryan Michler
Mentioned
Ryan Mickler Beast Jordan Harbinger Dude Rudy Simon Pratt Joe Rogan Chemov Canarraville Falls Peter Battencourt William Wallace Andrew Huberman Denver Waters Pete Roberts Chad Scott Joe Gunter Sathya Sam Z. Like Braveheart Duplessis and 2 more
PETE ROBERTS ｜ Why Scrappiness Could Be Your Greatest Asset How to Initiate Boys Into Manhood ｜ FRIDAY FIELD NOTES

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 3 minutes

Words per minute

178.94

Word count

11,289

Sentence count

1,004

Harmful content

Misogyny

5

sentences flagged

Toxicity

32

sentences flagged

Hate speech

5

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, the brotherhood gets together to discuss what it means to be a man, and what it takes to be one. We talk about the importance of owning your mistakes and owning your failures, and why it s important to own them. We also talk about how important it is to own the mistakes we've made, and how we can learn from them.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 I would probably consider the mistakes that you've made and just own them.
00:00:05.140 You just need ownership right now, okay?
00:00:07.840 I did this, and it eats at me, and I feel horrible about it,
00:00:13.100 and I feel horrible because, and then you explain the things.
00:00:17.060 It's not right to you.
00:00:19.160 It goes against our marriage vows.
00:00:23.460 It doesn't help us.
00:00:24.740 It doesn't help our connection and intimacy,
00:00:26.780 and so these are the mistakes that I'm owning right now.
00:00:30.000 You're a man of action.
00:00:33.540 You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path.
00:00:37.920 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.
00:00:42.080 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.
00:00:47.460 This is your life.
00:00:48.540 This is who you are.
00:00:49.940 This is who you will become.
00:00:51.680 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
00:00:58.360 Kemp, what's up, man?
00:00:59.200 Great to see you.
00:01:00.080 We have opposite colors.
00:01:01.460 It's like your screen's white and black.
00:01:03.180 I've got a white shirt and black hat.
00:01:05.220 I don't know.
00:01:05.480 I just noticed that. 0.89
00:01:06.240 Maybe that's a dumb thing to notice, but it stood out. 0.85
00:01:11.020 Okay. 0.95
00:01:11.900 You know, at least you're aware of your surroundings.
00:01:14.780 You know, there's some value in that.
00:01:17.260 We're working on him, everybody.
00:01:18.520 I have no idea why I'm telling you that, but I'm just looking at it now.
00:01:21.100 I'm like trying to like get the angles, and I'm like, okay, do the cameras look good?
00:01:24.580 Yeah, they look pretty good, so.
00:01:26.580 Yeah.
00:01:27.500 Yeah.
00:01:27.780 At least everyone knows that we don't wake up calling each other to see if we match or
00:01:31.580 not, so at least we're not doing that number.
00:01:33.720 We should coordinate.
00:01:33.960 We should coordinate for sure.
00:01:36.180 Well, it's good to see you after that really horrible intro, but you know, we don't knock
00:01:40.280 them all out of the park, but there we go.
00:01:44.420 Most of the time.
00:01:45.500 Most of the time.
00:01:46.200 Most of the time.
00:01:46.720 Cool, man.
00:01:47.280 Well, we got some, dude, you, you post some questions in the Iron Council, our exclusive
00:01:52.360 brotherhood, and, and the men have answered.
00:01:55.300 We got lots of, lots of solid questions for the podcast today.
00:01:59.340 Yeah.
00:01:59.880 Before we do, I want to go back to something we used to be doing, which was headlines.
00:02:04.280 And we kind of got away from that, I think just out of being busy and having questions
00:02:07.820 to answer, but we thought we'd revive this a little bit.
00:02:10.960 And I had, it's not so much a headline, it's just more of a cultural phenomenon.
00:02:15.660 I was watching YouTube with my kids this weekend and Mr. Beast, many of you probably know who
00:02:21.520 that is, came out with a new video.
00:02:24.300 And it was actually a really interesting video.
00:02:25.960 He took a prison inmate, a, a former prison inmate and a former either police officer or
00:02:32.320 corrections officer.
00:02:33.600 And he put them in a makeshift prison that he built and said, if both of you survive together
00:02:38.720 as cellmates for a hundred days, then you'll split $500,000.
00:02:42.880 And I thought the premise was kind of cool and it was interesting.
00:02:47.400 But, uh, one of my kids or somebody had said that Mr. Beast is a billionaire.
00:02:54.340 And I said, no, there's no way.
00:02:56.580 And I, and I looked, Mr. Beast is a billionaire.
00:03:01.160 And I'm always amazed.
00:03:03.260 I brought this up because I think it's incredible.
00:03:06.020 I love it.
00:03:06.840 Um, I just get frustrated when I hear people say things like nobody should be a billionaire.
00:03:14.100 And then they, they get after him because he's not donating enough money based on their
00:03:19.260 criteria as if they could donate even a fraction of what he does.
00:03:23.100 Uh, Mr. Beast is somebody who has a lot of philanthropic aspirations.
00:03:28.100 Um, he brings water to impoverished countries.
00:03:31.200 He pays for medical procedures for thousands and thousands of strangers and random people.
00:03:37.460 And he's not required to do any of that.
00:03:39.800 And then I think there's this other issue. 0.85
00:03:41.720 And this is a cultural phenomenon that I think is horribly disgusting and repulsive.
00:03:47.680 And that is that we think that just because somebody else figures out how to make money,
00:03:56.620 AKA add value to people's lives, that somehow it takes away from our ability to do it.
00:04:04.260 And that if somebody gets theirs, then we can't get ours.
00:04:07.440 And in the type of economy that we live in, relatively free, I'm not going to say completely
00:04:12.360 free markets, but the type of economy that we live in, we should all be cheering on the
00:04:17.380 streets and celebrating when somebody builds massive amounts of wealth in a very righteous,
00:04:24.560 responsible way.
00:04:25.560 Like I believe Mr. Beast has done because what it does is it paves the way for other people
00:04:31.300 to do similar things.
00:04:32.860 It, it creates a business that now can hire people.
00:04:36.900 You have tax revenue that goes into the, the, frankly, the needed revenue for the country
00:04:44.380 to operate.
00:04:46.160 Granted, I will say, I would love to see that at a fraction of the way it operates now, but
00:04:50.300 you guys understand the point, but we should all be cheering him on.
00:04:53.780 We should all be celebrating.
00:04:55.000 This same thing happened when Joe Rogan got that $300 million deal or whatever it was with
00:05:01.080 Spotify.
00:05:02.100 You know, all of a sudden, Joe, Joe Rogan's a villain. 0.99
00:05:04.580 He's a horrible person.
00:05:05.620 Nobody should have that much money. 1.00
00:05:07.520 He doesn't deserve it, man.
00:05:09.820 We ought to be celebrating and cheering that stuff on.
00:05:12.360 And I wish more of us did embrace the idea that if people build wealth righteously, morally,
00:05:18.540 ethically, then we ought to be able to support them because we know what's possible now.
00:05:25.000 Totally.
00:05:25.860 I don't know if you, if you want it to go this way, but I'll go this way, maybe a little bit.
00:05:31.860 Why?
00:05:32.640 Why do people do it?
00:05:34.080 Like, what is the human condition or what's the human tendency that causes people to moan
00:05:42.640 and complain about the success of others?
00:05:46.000 And ultimately, I think it's rooted in the idea because they would rather do that than
00:05:52.520 actually face how they're showing up in the world and address the things within their realm
00:05:57.100 of control.
00:05:57.620 It's always easy to moan and complain about what other people are doing.
00:06:02.580 It is a hell of a lot harder to look in the mirror and go, what am I doing with what I
00:06:08.000 have?
00:06:08.400 And I think we purposely get this moral benefit.
00:06:14.400 We think that we're superior or whatever when we get to complain about things that are outside
00:06:19.840 of our control.
00:06:21.520 And to be frank, it's a pitfall that a lot of people fall into. 0.97
00:06:25.960 And there's a level of it of, I don't know, I want to say pathetic.
00:06:29.880 But it's just, guys, we got to operate with what's within our realm.
00:06:34.320 And what are you doing with what you have?
00:06:36.200 And stop worrying about what other people are doing.
00:06:38.900 Yeah.
00:06:39.700 I think that's the primary reason.
00:06:42.040 I will say jealousy probably comes into that as well.
00:06:44.760 But that probably ties into the greater point that you're making.
00:06:47.840 These people who have tremendous levels of success in any aspect, whether it's with their families
00:06:52.440 or in business and finances or fitness, they are the destroyer of excuses.
00:06:59.700 And if you spend any amount of time around any type of these individuals who are achieving
00:07:04.160 at high levels, they don't tolerate your BS.
00:07:07.680 They don't tolerate your nonsense.
00:07:09.340 They don't buy into the same narrative that you have that you can't or some magical deck of
00:07:15.980 cards is stacked against you.
00:07:17.460 And so it's really uncomfortable if you're not ready to do the work, to be around people
00:07:23.000 like this, or to hear stories of them succeeding.
00:07:25.360 It's unfortunate.
00:07:26.380 But we can fight against it if you just have the right mindset.
00:07:29.680 And instead of being the victim and making them the villain, cheer along with them, celebrate
00:07:36.040 them, figure out what they did, duplicate it, replicate it, and make yourself into a more
00:07:41.180 capable, successful man.
00:07:43.440 Yeah, absolutely.
00:07:45.640 All right.
00:07:46.240 Let's get into some questions.
00:07:48.200 Our first question is from Chad Scott, kind of a lengthy, but he has a little bit of a
00:07:53.400 backstory here that I think is valuable.
00:07:55.640 He says, I was recently listening to a podcaster who was interviewing a motivational speaker
00:08:00.220 and an author.
00:08:01.480 This individual had gone to prison for many years and was recounting his time in jail before
00:08:06.700 being transferred to prison.
00:08:08.820 After his sentence, but before being transferred to a fellow jailmate, told him what to expect when
00:08:15.340 he gets there.
00:08:16.420 And I love this advice, by the way.
00:08:18.100 He advised him that he would have to fight a lot.
00:08:21.020 And his advice was, you don't have to win every fight, but you have to fight every fight.
00:08:26.860 No one except you will count how many times you win.
00:08:30.680 Of course, this man meant actual fights, but the interviewee related it to his clients in
00:08:37.100 a manner.
00:08:39.400 I posed this question to my battle team.
00:08:41.560 We had a great discussion about it.
00:08:43.660 What we all agreed was the better question is how to choose our battles, realizing sometimes
00:08:49.440 we only recognize some of the important ones once they have passed.
00:08:54.220 So maybe your thoughts if you agree with that sentiment.
00:08:57.340 Yeah, I mean, about the fighting in particular and why we need to fight and all that sort
00:09:02.880 of thing.
00:09:03.120 Yeah, I think it is crucial.
00:09:05.140 Just yesterday, I released a podcast with my friend Pete Roberts, who I know you know
00:09:10.480 really well as well, Kip.
00:09:13.580 And he talked about, he used a word in the podcast that really stood out to me.
00:09:18.820 And then I actually used it in the title of the podcast.
00:09:21.320 And the word is scrappiness.
00:09:22.580 And when he said that, it really stood out to me as a virtue, a character trait, something
00:09:31.240 that's actually a really good thing to have.
00:09:35.540 Because in the face of few resources or adversity and hardship, or maybe even somebody actually
00:09:43.400 doing something to you to keep you down, your ability to be scrappy.
00:09:49.120 Did we talk about this last week with Nate Diaz too, a little bit?
00:09:52.000 We did, didn't we?
00:09:52.940 Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
00:09:54.440 So that word has come up twice in the last week or two now.
00:09:58.760 And that's who I want in my corner.
00:10:02.920 And by the way, that's also the people that we admire and respect.
00:10:06.840 You know, they even, I don't know if you remember in the scene Braveheart, but they set up a trap
00:10:14.160 for William Wallace after they had killed his new bride.
00:10:18.440 And the governor or whatever of the village said, let this scrapper come to us.
00:10:25.800 And he did.
00:10:27.260 And, you know, you know the history from the, not the history, but you know the movie and
00:10:30.660 you know the story of the movie.
00:10:31.720 I wouldn't say the history.
00:10:32.720 It's loosely based, but you get it.
00:10:34.920 Um, that's what we want.
00:10:36.980 That's what we celebrate.
00:10:38.580 You know, even watching these fights, these UFC fights over the weekend.
00:10:42.560 Did you watch the fights at all, Kip?
00:10:45.080 I saw the highlights.
00:10:46.320 I didn't, I didn't grab the pay-per-view, but I mean.
00:10:48.940 Duplessis.
00:10:49.580 Talk about dominance. 0.53
00:10:49.840 What's the other guy's name?
00:10:51.020 Chemov.
00:10:52.020 Chemov or something.
00:10:52.740 I can't remember his last name.
00:10:54.440 Yeah.
00:10:54.660 Uh, anyways, he dominated, but you know what?
00:11:00.040 I think Duplessis scored a couple points in everybody's book.
00:11:04.420 I really do.
00:11:05.620 He, he lost the fight.
00:11:06.740 Like he didn't win a single round.
00:11:08.680 He got dominated.
00:11:10.160 You, some people might say it was, he got humiliated.
00:11:13.020 I actually think the opposite.
00:11:14.500 I think he was unprepared to be able to combat the ground game, but he scrapped.
00:11:20.880 And every time he got up, he would smile between rounds.
00:11:24.940 When he was in the corner, he was telling the coach, Hey, the last round, he's like,
00:11:28.420 I got to knock him out.
00:11:29.440 This is my only hope. 0.96
00:11:30.260 I got to knock him out.
00:11:31.800 He was fighting the whole time.
00:11:34.200 And that's what we as men respect because it's a virtue that we want to espouse.
00:11:40.620 So I agree, um, that we need, we need to be scrappy.
00:11:45.900 We need to fight.
00:11:47.180 Uh, we need to take things seriously.
00:11:49.400 We're not going to always have the resources or the abundance or prosperity or, or skillset
00:11:54.320 or characteristics that everybody else has, but you can always decide to stay in the
00:11:58.360 fight.
00:11:58.860 And if you do, I think over the long haul, you're going to win.
00:12:03.160 Yeah.
00:12:03.880 Well, and what's so great about that story.
00:12:06.280 And I don't know who the interview was, but like, what's so great about it is what happens
00:12:11.700 if that guy goes into jail and he doesn't fight every fight?
00:12:16.760 What if he cowards down when he gets attacked?
00:12:21.320 What will happen?
00:12:23.580 Dude, he'll start on a path where, where things will be worse for him.
00:12:28.040 Yeah.
00:12:28.500 Everybody will take advantage of him.
00:12:30.160 Versus if, yes, absolutely.
00:12:33.300 And so, and, and I'm not saying everything's a war, right?
00:12:36.880 In, in where we operate day to day, but like, you can't be a pushover, right?
00:12:41.740 Like, and we've talked about this a little bit, I think last week too, it's like, what
00:12:45.680 is it that you're doing?
00:12:46.780 Are you intentional with the choices that you're making?
00:12:50.040 And if you're not, then you need to push back and be intentional about what you're doing.
00:12:54.340 Otherwise, guess who's going to control your world?
00:12:56.780 Everybody, but you, you'll be doing everything to appease everybody else.
00:13:01.040 And you'll just be a passive bystander in life.
00:13:04.320 And that's exactly what this, what would happen to this gel mate in the event that he didn't 0.98
00:13:09.220 fight every fight.
00:13:11.240 And, and to your point, we respect the guy who's scrappy.
00:13:14.220 We respect the guy that doesn't give up, that will not be a pushover.
00:13:18.200 That's inspiring.
00:13:19.880 You know, you, you've, you've trained jujitsu long enough.
00:13:22.820 You, I'm sure you've had your, your, um, mat mates or your, your, uh, teammates that are
00:13:28.420 like the guys that, you know, there's no give up in them.
00:13:31.680 Like those guys inspire you.
00:13:34.220 Like, you know, after rounds and rounds, they still don't give up.
00:13:38.980 I mean, those are, those are inspirational people, regardless of the circumstance, regardless
00:13:44.320 of even if they're getting beat up, the fact that they don't give up is inspiring.
00:13:50.240 And, and we should all, I mean, I think we should all be operating from that perspective.
00:13:55.240 Yeah.
00:13:55.920 I mean, think about like Rudy is another one.
00:13:59.340 Think about the greatest stories ever told.
00:14:02.060 The ones that we as men naturally gravitate towards.
00:14:06.060 Gladiator is another one.
00:14:08.140 Yeah.
00:14:08.540 You know, general in the Roman army, down on his luck, wife and son murdered, and then
00:14:16.520 comes back to, you know, basically essentially take over the Roman empire.
00:14:21.100 I know these are stories, you know, they're not, they're, they're fictional stories.
00:14:24.900 I know.
00:14:25.220 But what, what, what the point that I'm making is that we resonate with them for a reason
00:14:29.520 because they're valuable.
00:14:32.300 Well, and I love the Rudy's in them.
00:14:34.780 And I love the Rudy story.
00:14:36.340 Why?
00:14:36.640 Because he doesn't win.
00:14:38.200 Not really.
00:14:39.820 No.
00:14:40.560 He gets some humiliating playing time.
00:14:44.280 That's it.
00:14:44.940 Right.
00:14:45.680 Right.
00:14:46.120 Right.
00:14:46.380 He didn't win anything.
00:14:48.220 Right.
00:14:48.660 But it's inspiring.
00:14:49.760 You don't have to win.
00:14:51.860 You just have to show up in a powerful way.
00:14:54.640 That's what you need to do.
00:14:56.420 Yeah.
00:14:57.060 All right.
00:14:57.580 What's next?
00:14:57.860 Hard to do.
00:14:58.540 All right.
00:14:59.580 Joe Gunter.
00:15:00.720 I posed this question on our LDS Church Young Men's High Adventure.
00:15:05.680 High Adventures, man.
00:15:07.340 Like just full disclosure for those that aren't LDS.
00:15:09.900 This is like a group of like probably 20 to 40 kids and some high adventures are 40 to
00:15:18.160 50 milers a week long out in the, in the wild chaos.
00:15:25.180 Like, like crazy chaos.
00:15:27.020 I did one one time tip with, with, uh, there was probably seven or eight 14 year olds.
00:15:34.560 No.
00:15:35.280 Yeah.
00:15:35.780 Fort, they were, they were 14 to 16 and 14 year old boys are just little a-holes.
00:15:41.100 They really are.
00:15:42.000 Yeah.
00:15:42.200 You know, like they're, they're fun.
00:15:44.220 Actually, by the time they turn 14, they're pretty good.
00:15:46.840 But like 12 to 14 is little, is rough at times.
00:15:50.060 Yeah.
00:15:50.720 Yeah.
00:15:50.960 They're wieners.
00:15:52.020 They're.
00:15:52.460 Yeah.
00:15:52.980 But once they get to 14, then they're, they're a little better.
00:15:57.160 But anyways, we had about seven or eight of us and we hiked down, we did a seven mile
00:16:02.860 hike and do a place called Canarraville Falls in Southern Utah with our backpacks.
00:16:07.000 So we hiked down seven miles or so.
00:16:09.240 Uh, and then we spent the night and the boys, they asked me, they said, Hey, you know, what,
00:16:13.940 what time is curfew?
00:16:15.440 I'm like, you guys don't have a curfew.
00:16:18.640 And they're like, what?
00:16:20.620 And I said, you guys are old enough now that you can just, our, our unofficial motto was
00:16:26.080 do what you want, suffer the consequences.
00:16:28.280 Our real motto that we told the parents was Ali, will there find a way or make one? 0.96
00:16:32.860 But our, our, our secret motto was do what you want, suffer the consequences.
00:16:37.800 And so I told the boys, I said, you guys don't have a curfew.
00:16:41.960 Just know we're leaving at 7am.
00:16:45.220 And they said, Oh, okay.
00:16:46.320 Yeah.
00:16:46.520 Okay.
00:16:46.780 Whatever.
00:16:47.480 I, I looked at my watch cause I didn't sleep in a tent.
00:16:50.340 I just slept in my sleeping bag and I looked at my watch.
00:16:53.000 It was 2am and I heard them down by the Creek and they were still noisy.
00:16:56.020 And rambunctious.
00:16:56.900 It was only us down there.
00:16:58.040 So it was fine.
00:16:59.680 And then maybe like an hour later, they tried to put a frog in my sleeping bag.
00:17:03.700 When I was sleeping, I'm like, God, these boys.
00:17:06.960 So anyways, I get up at seven or a little earlier and I start packing up my stuff and
00:17:11.840 I get the boys up and they're like, can we sleep longer?
00:17:14.180 I'm like, no, I told you, do what you want, suffer the consequences.
00:17:18.360 Now it's time to suffer.
00:17:19.740 Now it's time to pay.
00:17:21.020 And they're like, okay.
00:17:22.160 I put my bag on.
00:17:23.560 I'm like, man, my bag feels heavy today.
00:17:25.260 And we got to hike 10 miles out to get to a cabin that we're going to spend another day
00:17:29.000 or two at.
00:17:29.880 I put this bag on.
00:17:31.320 I'm like, this is heavy today.
00:17:33.320 But I didn't really think anything of it.
00:17:34.680 I thought, well, my back's probably sore.
00:17:36.380 My legs are sore the day from the day before.
00:17:38.280 And I'm hiking out with the boys and I'm just like, why is this so heavy?
00:17:44.120 And I went for a couple of miles and then we get to this hill and it felt really heavy.
00:17:47.700 And I dropped them like, what is going on with my bag?
00:17:49.820 I opened it up.
00:17:50.740 They had put rocks in my bag at night while they were awake and while I was asleep.
00:17:57.620 I love those kids.
00:17:58.440 And so I take the rocks out and they're just laughing.
00:18:00.640 They thought it was hilarious.
00:18:02.180 Anyways, I don't know why I brought that up other than we had a good time.
00:18:05.460 And being able to do that stuff with young men in your community, I think is invaluable
00:18:10.180 service.
00:18:11.220 Some of the parents did get mad that I said, do what you want, suffer the consequences.
00:18:15.580 I said, you know what?
00:18:16.400 The boys had a good time.
00:18:17.840 They're stronger.
00:18:18.760 They're more capable and they're alive.
00:18:20.620 So that seems like a win to me.
00:18:22.900 And they were pretty good about it.
00:18:25.160 Dude, the last high adventure I had, it was to King's Peak from the south side of the
00:18:31.240 Uintas.
00:18:31.920 It was over a 40 miler and 10 miles a day.
00:18:37.700 I mean, it was rough for an adult.
00:18:41.100 It was really rough for some of these kids, man.
00:18:45.120 And they were not prepped.
00:18:46.680 I mean, I remember I had a night where I had this kid yelling, help.
00:18:52.800 Like I'm literally sleeping and I hear a kid yelling, help in the middle of the night. 0.99
00:18:56.660 And I'm like, what the crap? 0.98
00:18:59.120 I get out. 0.98
00:19:00.680 There's something outside my tent.
00:19:02.680 I heard something.
00:19:03.880 And he's freaking out.
00:19:04.940 Like the bear's going to eat him or something.
00:19:07.580 I flip open my flashlight.
00:19:10.860 There's food everywhere.
00:19:13.080 And I'm like, did you guys hang up your food?
00:19:16.160 They're like, what do you mean?
00:19:17.680 And I'm like, do you have food in your tent?
00:19:20.060 They're like, yeah.
00:19:21.400 And I'm like, all right, everyone get out of your tent, right? 1.00
00:19:24.440 I'm like, you morons. 1.00
00:19:27.360 But it was classic, man. 1.00
00:19:30.380 I love high ventures.
00:19:31.400 Anyhow, to Joe's question.
00:19:32.940 Back to the question.
00:19:34.480 Yeah.
00:19:35.140 All right.
00:19:35.780 With the spiritual understanding I have today, how would I invite God into a past trial,
00:19:42.860 transforming it into a testimony rather than stumbling block?
00:19:46.600 This also led to a side question of why is having some type of spiritually important in
00:19:53.940 a man's life?
00:19:54.980 Ryan and Kip, what would your answer be to these questions?
00:19:59.920 Well, I think part of it is a reframe, and it's an eternal perspective reframing.
00:20:05.200 A lot of people think, why does this happen to me?
00:20:07.480 I've said it.
00:20:08.080 We've all said it.
00:20:08.740 Why is this happening to me?
00:20:09.960 Why did I get fired?
00:20:10.880 Why did I have this relationship issue?
00:20:13.120 Why did I get in a car accident?
00:20:14.680 Why whatever?
00:20:15.360 What if instead you decided, well, it's happening for me?
00:20:22.160 And that could be true or not true, but what if you just operated as if it was?
00:20:27.080 What if you just made the decision that this is true, that things are happening for me?
00:20:31.700 Would you approach the solution differently?
00:20:33.640 I think the answer is yes.
00:20:35.700 And so if things are happening for you, then to me, that means that some designer is behind
00:20:44.120 that.
00:20:45.360 There's a designer behind that timeline.
00:20:50.140 If it's happening for you, then somebody or something is making it happen.
00:20:54.740 Some people call it the universe or a muse or whatever.
00:20:58.160 It's God.
00:20:59.320 And God is making those things happen.
00:21:03.320 Now, we still have free will and we still have free agency.
00:21:05.940 We can decide, do I want to go left or right?
00:21:08.500 Do I want to embrace this as a lesson or do I want to wallow in my own self-pity?
00:21:12.740 I can make those decisions.
00:21:14.100 I'm able to do those things.
00:21:15.600 But I believe that God does these for a couple of reasons.
00:21:19.260 One, it's a test.
00:21:23.640 And it's not a test like, I want to trick you.
00:21:26.780 I don't think God's doing that.
00:21:28.380 Some people think there's a malicious God where, hey, I'm trying to trick you and stumble
00:21:32.540 you and make you fall and mess you up and embarrass and humiliate you. 0.75
00:21:36.300 That's not what I'm saying when I say test.
00:21:39.100 When I say test, I think what he's doing is giving us moments of hardship and struggle
00:21:47.440 and adversity in order to make ourselves stronger.
00:21:53.100 Because any time that I've ever had something challenging and difficult in my life, I've come
00:21:59.820 out okay.
00:22:00.780 And I know that because here I am.
00:22:03.280 That's made me stronger.
00:22:04.600 I also think it's to prove to ourselves, not to him.
00:22:09.320 He already knows.
00:22:10.100 We don't need to prove anything to him.
00:22:11.900 Confidence.
00:22:12.420 To prove to ourselves.
00:22:14.060 Right.
00:22:15.100 Prove to ourselves that we're capable of the next level.
00:22:18.480 I feel like any time anything negative or bad happens, that's a test for me.
00:22:26.880 And if I pass it, I get to go to the next level.
00:22:30.700 And if I don't pass it, then I stay where I am.
00:22:37.220 And I think God's giving us opportunities.
00:22:39.920 They're hard.
00:22:41.160 They're brutal, many of them.
00:22:43.080 They're tragic in some cases.
00:22:45.220 But if you can come out ahead, you can overcome that.
00:22:49.360 You can be stronger.
00:22:50.000 And also, you can help other people do that.
00:22:52.220 And I think that's the second part of it.
00:22:54.440 Is that if I suffer in a way, then other people might suffer less if I'm willing to share the
00:23:02.220 stories that I've learned.
00:23:03.040 Divorce is a great example of that.
00:23:06.520 I went through that divorce.
00:23:08.220 A lot of it in my own making.
00:23:10.080 Takes two to tango, sure.
00:23:11.240 But a lot of it in my own making.
00:23:13.260 And I'm taking the lessons that I've learned over the past two and a half, almost three years now,
00:23:17.980 and putting together a course called Divorce Not Death.
00:23:21.220 Because if I can take those lessons in my new understanding based on personal experience
00:23:25.760 and help another man get through that or not go through a divorce at all,
00:23:30.440 then my adversity was a positive thing, not only in my life, but in the life of another man.
00:23:36.880 And I feel like that's my sole objective on this earth, is to learn, to grow, to get better,
00:23:42.460 and to help other people do the same.
00:23:44.320 And that's my eternal perspective.
00:23:45.620 And that's where my views on God come in.
00:23:49.240 The conversation about why does God let bad things happen to good people,
00:23:52.780 that's another conversation.
00:23:54.080 We can certainly have it.
00:23:55.540 But those are two different things, I think.
00:23:59.540 Well, and I love this, Ryan.
00:24:01.540 You know, the one thing I'd add to your statement is,
00:24:06.240 for just a clarity, the past lives where?
00:24:12.860 Nowhere.
00:24:13.800 It's over.
00:24:15.120 Other than in your mind.
00:24:16.480 And so what's so great about this is, at any time, you get to learn from it.
00:24:23.500 You know, it's like, oh, I had this tough past.
00:24:25.740 I didn't learn anything from it.
00:24:26.760 Okay, well, you can do that now.
00:24:29.320 You could still retrospect and go, oh, you know, I'm going to go back 20 years,
00:24:33.300 and I'm going to choose to learn from that difficult circumstance right now,
00:24:37.600 even though I didn't learn back then.
00:24:39.180 That's the beauty of taking an experience and a circumstance and a hardship
00:24:47.580 and pivoting to grow from it.
00:24:50.420 You can do that at any time.
00:24:51.760 It doesn't matter when.
00:24:53.220 And so I just, I love to call that out.
00:24:55.160 And we talked about this, too, on the podcast, that, like, stress is an enhancer.
00:24:59.120 I love one of my favorite quotes from Andrew Huberman is around this idea that, like,
00:25:03.580 your brain literally changes when stress is involved, allowing you to grow and develop
00:25:09.960 in a way that normally you wouldn't be able to.
00:25:13.720 So that begs the idea that challenges are what's required for us to grow and evolve
00:25:22.120 and to become better versions of ourselves.
00:25:25.000 And the God I believe in is focused on me evolving and becoming the best version of myself.
00:25:30.600 So guess what that involves?
00:25:32.820 Challenges, difficulties, and stress.
00:25:35.920 Now, the mindset is critical because if I don't have the mindset of an internal perspective
00:25:41.000 of growth and it's woe is me victim mentality, then I'm not going to learn and grow.
00:25:46.860 In fact, it may break me.
00:25:50.000 And I may go in the complete opposite direction.
00:25:53.020 But the beautiful part about what we're saying here is that's a choice.
00:25:57.620 That's a choice that we can just take on.
00:26:00.600 Well, I really like what you said about going to the past and revisiting that
00:26:05.720 because it is a requirement that you do that.
00:26:09.120 And I'll tell you why.
00:26:10.580 All of us are operating based on scripts and stories that were written a long time ago.
00:26:15.980 There was a script written about you and told about you that you had no say in.
00:26:23.840 You had no say in what that story was.
00:26:26.660 We were born to mom and dad, whether they were there or not, or other people came into our lives.
00:26:33.120 We experienced things that we had no control over.
00:26:35.740 We had no influence over.
00:26:37.100 And we were just stuck.
00:26:38.220 And then people started inputting thoughts and ideas and concepts into our brains.
00:26:44.600 Some of them very positive and constructive.
00:26:46.960 Some of them very negative and destructive.
00:26:49.460 And we believe, to a degree, everything that we've ever been told unless you can learn to rewrite some of the bad code.
00:26:58.960 And that's what all of us as men should be doing when we, if we have something that goes south and it's on us, it's our responsibility, that might be a one-off thing.
00:27:10.240 You know what to be aware of is when you start to see trends in your performance.
00:27:14.400 If you start to see trends in your performance, it's because you're operating on a script that is not serving you.
00:27:21.520 Bad things happen.
00:27:22.480 We mess up.
00:27:23.100 We make mistakes.
00:27:23.920 That might not be bad programming.
00:27:25.960 It just means that we're human beings.
00:27:27.640 But if every relationship that you're in ends the same way or it ends up being in the same kind of dynamic and it's not good, it's toxic, that's a bad script that you believed.
00:27:40.000 And the only way for you to write it, or excuse me, rewrite it, is to go back and visit and say, why do I believe that?
00:27:46.740 Where did I learn that from?
00:27:48.380 Who told me that?
00:27:49.940 Why do I think that's a good thing?
00:27:51.560 What does that story produce in my life?
00:27:53.720 Play it out, find the answers, and then start plugging in new elements of that story and watch how your progress changes.
00:28:02.220 It's a requirement to figure out what those stories are and rewrite the code that doesn't serve you well.
00:28:08.900 Yeah, and available for us to do anytime.
00:28:12.240 Anytime.
00:28:13.080 Anytime.
00:28:13.480 Anytime.
00:28:13.980 Which is awesome, really, that you don't have to experience that again to learn from it.
00:28:18.460 Thank goodness for that.
00:28:19.560 That's a good point.
00:28:20.500 Yeah, that's a really good point.
00:28:21.900 Yeah.
00:28:22.340 Unless you're dense like I am, you just want to keep learning things the hard way.
00:28:26.780 What's the phrase, right?
00:28:28.060 It's like, you can choose to learn the lesson or life will help you learn the lesson.
00:28:33.320 Either way, you're learning it.
00:28:34.680 It's just, how much suffering are you going to have to go through?
00:28:38.420 Yeah, well, the other one I like is a smart man learns from his mistakes, a wise man learns from the mistakes of others.
00:28:45.180 You can be the other, by the way.
00:28:47.460 Yeah.
00:28:47.720 You can go back 20 years and say, oh, yeah, I remember when I did that.
00:28:52.640 That was a pivotal moment in my life that maybe I should change.
00:28:56.180 Or, you know what, there's other things that happen in your life where you start to run into identity crises that you may not even notice it.
00:29:05.000 But, you know, maybe you go through a divorce and then you lose some of your identity or you lose your job or you retire and you lose some of your identity.
00:29:15.940 And when you lose that identity, you start to change your behavior for better or worse.
00:29:21.140 But you just need to figure out which it is so you can make sure you're doing the right thing and being intentional about it.
00:29:26.660 Yeah.
00:29:28.140 All right, what's next?
00:29:29.120 Denver Waters.
00:29:29.800 How can I approach senior leadership about issues and blind spots I see in our processes without coming across as just complaining?
00:29:40.020 I don't always have full solutions, but I want them to understand both my experience and the experience of others since it feels like they're somewhat disconnected from what's happening on the ground.
00:29:51.440 I've never heard that before, ever.
00:29:53.100 Denver.
00:29:55.380 Well, so he's talking specifically about the Iron Council, so I'm grateful that he's aware of that.
00:30:02.040 Oh, is he?
00:30:02.680 And I'm going to—
00:30:03.000 Maybe he's not, though.
00:30:05.240 Oh, maybe.
00:30:06.220 I guess maybe not.
00:30:07.060 I was going to—I assumed that was the case, but I was going to apply it broadly anyways.
00:30:11.580 But you might be right.
00:30:12.940 Yeah.
00:30:13.460 Yeah.
00:30:13.780 Yeah, I assumed—I actually messaged him and I said, hey, man, like, I would love to hear your—I told him to follow the chain of command
00:30:21.000 and then send me a message, so I thought it was about the Iron Council specifically, but maybe not.
00:30:27.580 He replied, I should have clarified, I'm talking about my career, not the Iron Council.
00:30:31.860 Oh.
00:30:32.240 So there you go.
00:30:32.900 Oh, okay.
00:30:33.660 Well, I'm glad I wasn't a dip to him.
00:30:37.740 On the podcast.
00:30:39.240 Well, first off, listen up.
00:30:41.560 Yeah.
00:30:42.280 Well, no, even in the comment, I was like, hey, man, thanks for sharing.
00:30:46.100 Like, have you gone through your chain of command and shoot me a message?
00:30:49.200 I'd love to hear your feedback.
00:30:50.020 That's what I said as a response to him, so I'm glad I handled it like a mature adult.
00:30:55.560 Yeah.
00:30:55.800 Okay, so, yeah, I was going to apply it broadly anyways.
00:30:58.300 Well, look, here—okay, so here's my advice, and Kip, I know you're going to have a lot of good advice on this one.
00:31:01.960 I'll give you—I'll give you three things, three things you should focus on.
00:31:08.720 Number one, use your chain of command.
00:31:10.600 Like, you don't need to go to the owner and start airing out your grievances if you have a team leader or you have a shift supervisor or the manager of the store or whatever.
00:31:21.700 I don't know your work.
00:31:22.740 But always use the chain of command because if you go straight to the manager, you're going to do two things.
00:31:28.660 You're going to piss off the manager, or let's say you go straight to the owner.
00:31:32.060 You're going to piss off the owner because he's busy.
00:31:34.240 He doesn't have time for all of the things.
00:31:36.200 That's why he has managers and team leaders.
00:31:38.220 So you're going to piss off the owner, and then you're going to piss off the manager because you just threw him under the bus without giving him a chance, like a man, to actually deal with it.
00:31:47.860 So always use the chain of command.
00:31:50.400 So I would go to my team leader, and then if that didn't get resolved, I'd go to my shift manager.
00:31:56.500 And if that didn't get resolved, I'd go to the store manager.
00:31:58.540 If that didn't get resolved, and so on and so forth.
00:32:00.440 But always use the chain of command.
00:32:02.820 Number two, consider your tone.
00:32:06.080 Okay?
00:32:06.340 If your tone is one of complaining and grievances and negativity and why you don't like things, that's going to hit differently than if you said,
00:32:16.860 hey, I love being here, and I want to make this better, and I have this cool idea, and here's something that I think could be implemented,
00:32:23.480 or here's one thing that I really like, but if it was tweaked this way, it might help based on what I've heard other people say.
00:32:29.660 You're sharing the same information, but you're changing the tone of your voice, the inflection, the enthusiasm.
00:32:38.020 Your body language even falls into that.
00:32:40.900 And then the third is remember that what you're sharing is your opinion.
00:32:45.320 So be very careful of stating it as actual fact, because you don't know.
00:32:52.240 Okay?
00:32:52.500 You don't know everything.
00:32:54.660 You know some things, but your manager might have a reason for doing it the way that he's doing it,
00:33:00.120 and you just might not be privy to it yet.
00:33:01.780 So if you go in there accusatory, believing that you know all the facts and that you know best,
00:33:08.700 it comes across as arrogant and condescending when I would suggest you go in there and say,
00:33:14.120 if Kip, you're my shift supervisor, I might say, hey, Kip, can I talk with you for a second?
00:33:18.860 Again, asking that question is a sign of respect.
00:33:22.480 Right?
00:33:22.760 Can I talk with you for a second?
00:33:24.200 I value your opinion.
00:33:25.020 Okay, so we get to our conversation, and I just say, hey, I've got a couple of thoughts,
00:33:29.860 but I know that I'm only coming from this little piece of the puzzle,
00:33:34.260 and so I might be way off base.
00:33:36.500 There might be other moving parts that I'm not even aware of,
00:33:39.880 but can I share some feedback from my perspective, from where I sit?
00:33:45.700 That's the key.
00:33:46.980 Yeah.
00:33:47.460 And then he says, hopefully, he says, yeah, I'd love to hear it.
00:33:50.000 If you have a good manager, he would say yes.
00:33:52.040 And then you share, hey, this is what I'm seeing.
00:33:54.380 Again, I know that I'm not seeing all of it, but I'm seeing this.
00:33:56.940 I'm hearing this.
00:33:58.720 There seems to be a little bit of disconnect here,
00:34:01.000 and I'm really just here out of curiosity so I can understand the bigger picture
00:34:05.400 so we in this department can do a better job.
00:34:09.340 And that's going to be well more received than, hey, this is wrong, and that's wrong, 1.00
00:34:13.640 and you should do this, and you should do that, and you guys are idiots, and why aren't you? 1.00
00:34:17.140 Totally. 1.00
00:34:17.800 I mean, and nothing personal, right, for Denver, right?
00:34:23.920 But there's a sentiment in that in his questions, right?
00:34:27.400 I want them to understand both my experience and the experience of others.
00:34:33.220 Why?
00:34:35.040 Since it feels like somewhat disconnected from what's happening.
00:34:38.460 Yeah, go ahead.
00:34:39.480 Yeah.
00:34:40.620 So I hear what you're saying.
00:34:42.460 I read it, and this is what you have to be careful of because not everybody's going to read it this way.
00:34:48.800 I read it as you care about your job and you care about this.
00:34:54.380 That's how I read it.
00:34:56.180 I just think the delivery needs to be tweaked a little bit because the problem is your boss might not read it the same way I'm reading it,
00:35:03.640 even though you might be meaning it that way, and I think that's what you're alluding to, Kip, is it has a little bit of that,
00:35:10.800 even though I think you're doing it for the right reasons, your method might need a little adjusting.
00:35:18.460 Yeah, and this is where the one thing I'd add is like you need to alignment to strategic focus or alignment to organizational success is critical, right?
00:35:32.260 So like if an employee come to me and says, oh, I really want you to understand what we're dealing with.
00:35:38.360 Dude, this isn't about you.
00:35:41.580 Like you may think it's about you, but guess what it's about?
00:35:44.160 It's actually about the organization of a thousand people.
00:35:47.000 So have that perspective when you go to the leader to get feedback.
00:35:52.080 Does it make sense?
00:35:53.200 Because where are we going as a whole, right?
00:35:55.600 And they may not understand what's happening because of boots on ground.
00:35:59.180 Of course, just like you may not know what they're dealing with at the leadership level.
00:36:04.280 So be very slow to assume that you even understand what their focus and their top priorities are.
00:36:12.920 They may not be the same priorities that you're experiencing on the ground, right?
00:36:16.220 So, and you've already kind of alluded to this, Ryan.
00:36:18.700 This is where I'd approach this from the perspective of, hey, I see some gaps or I know our strategic direction is XYZ for the organization.
00:36:27.200 What could I do?
00:36:28.600 Or I have some ideas I'd love to bring to the table that I think would be highly beneficial to help us go in that direction while mitigating some concern.
00:36:37.040 Align to the success of the org, right?
00:36:40.740 Because they're playing a more strategic game than your experience or a handful of people.
00:36:46.120 They're worried about the organization as a whole, especially at a senior leadership level.
00:36:51.380 So, and the last thing, and you already touched it, but I just, I have to say it, is like, own your perception as perception, not truth, right?
00:37:02.120 So if you go to the table, if you do express some frustration, it seems, I believe it feels like, right?
00:37:09.680 Be very slow to place judgment and labels on the thing.
00:37:14.260 And even if you don't have, like, a winning solution, I'd recommend that you do come to the table with something.
00:37:22.260 Don't just come with a complaint.
00:37:24.820 Come with some ideas at least that, like, I see this and I have some ideas that I'd love to suggest or I think this might be beneficial.
00:37:34.120 But be assertive in it and be aligned to helping the org, not just yourself.
00:37:39.220 Because, and that's the last thing I'd say is, like, a lot of individual contributors, when they're upset, they're very narrow focused, right?
00:37:46.760 Because that's their lane.
00:37:48.580 But a lot of senior leadership, they're dealing with a much broader thing, right?
00:37:52.960 So align your issue with how it benefits the entire org and it will come across less as you just worried about yours and you're being a squeaky wheel and that you're actually trying to contribute to the organization as a whole.
00:38:06.120 Yeah.
00:38:08.180 One thing you said, Kip, that made me, yeah, well, it's a great question.
00:38:11.380 Well, you know, because he's asking it, he's trying to do it right.
00:38:14.120 And I guess that's the perspective that we have.
00:38:16.300 Yeah, totally.
00:38:16.740 Is you're asking us because you want to do it right and we get to see that, but nobody else might.
00:38:22.960 Habit number five, seven habits of highly effective people seek first to understand, then to be understood.
00:38:30.120 So keep that in mind as well.
00:38:32.960 Yeah.
00:38:33.580 Yeah.
00:38:33.800 Because your upset might be part of a bigger picture and a more important issue that they're dealing with, right?
00:38:43.400 Like, so, yeah, who knows?
00:38:45.060 Yeah.
00:38:45.440 I mean, how many times have we been, I mean, I've been in too many to count situations, even in a conversation with one other person, not an organization like we're talking about here, where I come with something that I'm upset with or bothered with.
00:39:00.200 And if I do it in a really healthy way, that person says, oh, well, the reason that is, is because of X, Y, and Z.
00:39:08.080 Like, let me give you a really silly example of how often we do this.
00:39:11.740 You call your wife up or maybe you text her. 0.77
00:39:14.100 She doesn't answer.
00:39:15.920 She's usually pretty good about getting back with you. 0.99
00:39:17.720 She doesn't answer.
00:39:19.220 You could give her another text, maybe 30, 45 minutes later, no answer.
00:39:22.900 You call her an hour and a half after that, no answer.
00:39:25.920 Okay, now you're kind of freaking out a little bit.
00:39:27.260 She's stepping out on you. 1.00
00:39:27.920 Right?
00:39:28.880 Yeah.
00:39:29.680 She left with the kids and she's gone and she's mad at you for some thing that you conjured up in your brain that didn't really happen and the world's going to fall apart.
00:39:40.820 She's going to want a divorce. 1.00
00:39:42.260 She's going to take half of your money and your marriage is over. 1.00
00:39:46.140 So just pack it up.
00:39:47.420 You're done.
00:39:47.780 And then you get home that night and she's there and she's loving and happy and excited and you're confused because she didn't get back with you right away.
00:39:58.260 And you say, hey, hon, I called you.
00:40:00.900 I didn't hear from you for like two or three hours.
00:40:03.820 And she says, oh, yeah, I was with the kids at the lake and my phone fell in the lake.
00:40:07.520 And so I had to order a new one. 1.00
00:40:09.260 And you're like, I'm an idiot. 1.00
00:40:10.760 Because you were ready to chastise her and made this big ordeal out of nothing because you didn't understand. 1.00
00:40:21.260 So that stuff like that is way more common and it happens all the time.
00:40:26.700 Just be very careful.
00:40:28.240 Understand first and then you can be understood.
00:40:31.320 Yeah.
00:40:31.880 Love it.
00:40:32.620 We had an old school, man, pulling up Covey.
00:40:35.800 I knew you'd like Covey.
00:40:36.640 I did that for you, man.
00:40:37.640 I did that for you because I knew you'd like that.
00:40:39.640 Dude, I read that book when I was like a freshman in college and no joke, it was like a pivotal time in my life.
00:40:49.660 Like that book was like really big for me.
00:40:52.760 Yeah.
00:40:53.340 All right.
00:40:54.060 Anonymous.
00:40:56.060 What advice slash pointers can you give a man who has to tell his wife about his addiction?
00:41:02.000 Sorry, I'm – okay.
00:41:07.960 Let me pause because I want to make sure I'm not exposing something in the question.
00:41:13.700 Okay.
00:41:14.180 It's fine.
00:41:14.720 Let me read it again.
00:41:15.640 Sorry.
00:41:16.300 Okay.
00:41:16.820 What advice and pointers can you give a man who has to tell his wife about his addiction?
00:41:21.580 Since joined the IC, I've learned that I need to take steps and forgive my parents for the wrong of my childhood.
00:41:27.720 That was causing me to seek validation in pornography.
00:41:31.900 I now feel I need to tell my wife about this addiction and I'm unsure how to go about it other than explaining to her that it's not her and that it's – that is the problem.
00:41:42.540 It was a psychological effect of my childhood.
00:41:44.740 I mean I would be a little careful saying it's not you.
00:41:50.280 This is the psychological effect of my childhood.
00:41:53.320 I don't think I would lead off with that because it sounds like you're rationalizing or justifying the behavior a little bit.
00:42:00.460 Like that's not my fault.
00:42:01.720 Like it's not your fault.
00:42:02.760 Not my fault.
00:42:03.140 It's my childhood.
00:42:04.560 Yeah.
00:42:05.200 Right?
00:42:05.760 So I'm not saying you're wrong.
00:42:07.340 It might actually be some of that.
00:42:09.260 But I would be careful on that.
00:42:10.600 I will say this.
00:42:11.540 I'm going to give you a couple ideas that I think will help.
00:42:14.720 Also, go look at Sathya Sam.
00:42:17.340 Sathya is spelled S-A-T-H-I-Y-A.
00:42:20.780 Sathya Sam.
00:42:22.700 And he's got a really great course on pornography.
00:42:25.740 In fact, he offered an exclusive course inside of our Brotherhood, the Iron Council, that if you're part of the Iron Council, you already have access to.
00:42:32.940 So it's there, overcoming pornography addiction.
00:42:36.480 There's also Breaking Pornography Channel.
00:42:38.720 So this would be a good question for the appropriate channels as well.
00:42:44.120 But here's some factors that I would consider.
00:42:49.940 Number one, when you do have this conversation, you might give her a little bit of a prep to say,
00:42:57.180 Hey, hon, can I talk with you about something tonight?
00:42:59.160 Everything's fine.
00:42:59.880 But I do have a serious conversation because, and then you tell her that you want to make sure the relationship is as powerful as it can be.
00:43:09.700 And isn't that the ultimate outcome?
00:43:11.980 So what I would say is, hey, I just want to have a conversation.
00:43:14.260 I want to show up in the most powerful way that I can for you and the kids, and I want to have the best relationship that we can possibly have.
00:43:23.120 And that's how I would lead the conversation off with.
00:43:26.080 Because if you explain that outcome, when she gets upset, and she probably will, especially if it's still continuing, and it sounds like it is,
00:43:34.380 then you can always bring it back to the outcome.
00:43:39.200 So if she gets upset, you can acknowledge that.
00:43:42.840 You can validate that.
00:43:45.100 Don't say, I know how you feel.
00:43:46.500 You don't know how she feels.
00:43:48.100 Say, I know that you're upset.
00:43:50.680 I can understand why you would be upset.
00:43:54.240 And it's justified. 0.95
00:43:56.200 It's warranted.
00:43:57.120 And this is why it's been so hard for me to tell you, because I knew how upset you would be.
00:44:01.680 So that's one thing I would add.
00:44:02.800 Number two is, I would probably consider the mistakes that you've made and just own them.
00:44:12.080 Not like my childhood trauma.
00:44:14.280 No, not yet.
00:44:15.420 We can get into that.
00:44:17.220 You just need ownership right now.
00:44:19.580 Okay?
00:44:20.080 I did this, and it eats at me.
00:44:23.260 And I feel horrible about it.
00:44:25.400 And I feel horrible because.
00:44:27.780 And then you explain the things.
00:44:29.340 It's not right to you.
00:44:30.820 It goes against our marriage vows.
00:44:35.360 It doesn't help us.
00:44:36.960 It doesn't help our connection and intimacy.
00:44:39.020 And so these are the mistakes that I'm owning right now.
00:44:42.580 So that would be point number two.
00:44:44.300 Point number three, what are you going to do about it?
00:44:46.880 If you come to her with this information, you should already have a plan in place, ready to go.
00:44:54.280 So, hey, the last thing I want to share with you is my plan for overcoming this.
00:44:59.440 What I'm going to do moving forward.
00:45:01.120 And what I'm going to do is I'm going to join this overcoming pornography channel in the Iron Council.
00:45:09.100 I'm going to take the course.
00:45:10.320 I'm going to reach out to Cynthia.
00:45:11.560 And I'm going to tackle this through credible, qualified sources.
00:45:19.060 And I'm going to put some filters on my computer to block that stuff out.
00:45:24.860 And you put in some of those boundaries that you're going to have in place.
00:45:27.820 And you explain to her what those are.
00:45:29.520 And you ask her if there's anything she can think of that might be helpful on this path.
00:45:35.020 Because if you do this right, I think she'll still be really, really upset.
00:45:39.780 But the fact that you're telling her rather than being caught is a good thing.
00:45:44.960 And you might be able to enlist her in your change if you do this correctly.
00:45:52.760 So those are the pointers I would give.
00:45:54.720 I think it's spot on.
00:45:55.800 I don't have anything to add.
00:45:57.140 I mean, and by the way, like the formula you just pointed out, just attach that to anything.
00:46:05.340 Right.
00:46:05.900 I need to have a hard conversation with the business partner.
00:46:08.460 I need to have a hard conversation with an employee.
00:46:11.300 You know, this is solid.
00:46:13.260 Unified outcome.
00:46:15.160 Align on unified outcome.
00:46:18.420 Identify ownership and responsibility.
00:46:21.500 And then move to communicating what is the plan of action that you're going to do moving forward.
00:46:27.620 It's awesome.
00:46:28.480 It's perfect.
00:46:29.020 I will say just as a follow up.
00:46:30.680 The other.
00:46:31.060 Thank you.
00:46:31.520 I appreciate that. 0.94
00:46:32.520 I've had to have a lot of hard conversations about dumb shit I've done over the years. 0.90
00:46:36.060 So you're like, I got reps. 0.97
00:46:42.100 And then not to laugh and make light of, of what he's experiencing.
00:46:46.160 Um, the other thing is the, the childhood trauma stuff and some of the reasoning and
00:46:51.880 the logic and, and stuff behind it, that that's valid.
00:46:55.480 So part of your healing process might be therapy.
00:46:59.920 And if that's a decision you decide to make, you know, you would communicate that with her.
00:47:04.920 And then as you're doing your sessions, your therapist is going to help you get to the root
00:47:09.260 of some of these behavioral issues.
00:47:10.580 And then you can, then after you've already confessed and shared and everything else,
00:47:15.700 and she's on the same page, you're on the same page, then, and only then can you start talking
00:47:20.640 about, Hey, I talked with my therapist and they said that part of the reason this might be is
00:47:25.560 because of this, or what they've seen is this behavior in individuals who have this past history.
00:47:30.620 And so that's really good for me to know because it equips me with the knowledge of what I need
00:47:35.600 to overcome. So you're still not shifting blame. You're, you're actually saying this could be a
00:47:41.560 reason, but you're also accepting responsibility saying, this is what I need to do to overcome
00:47:46.500 this reason that I've had. But I think that's a little bit down the road, not immediately.
00:47:51.940 Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. I mean, it would come across as though you're blaming your
00:47:55.160 childhood, your, your past self and you're a victim of it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Totally.
00:48:00.620 All right. Simon Pratt. Interesting question. What are effective ways to respond to public haters
00:48:07.280 that reduce, that reduces conflict and promotes understanding without wasting energy on those
00:48:13.520 unwilling to listen and change? I I'm mixed on this. I mean, sometimes you catch me in a bad
00:48:18.960 moment and I'm like, I'm going to get this person back. And I just say something dumb. And then I get 0.98
00:48:23.440 into a spat, a digital spat, which is never helpful for anything. So I want to throw that little
00:48:29.960 disclaimer out there. The proper way to handle it is to just ignore it.
00:48:39.060 That's the proper way is that whether it's online or in person, somebody says something,
00:48:44.800 makes a comment or the proper thing to do is just ignore it. If you feel like it needs to be addressed,
00:48:51.300 then I've found that the best thing you can do is to be disarming. So you maybe make a joke of it,
00:48:59.560 like not at their expense. So for example, if somebody on social media, is he just talking
00:49:06.480 about social media or just life in general? Um, I don't know why I assume social media, but he doesn't
00:49:13.720 say just respond to public. Yeah. Cause most of the time. So yeah. Yeah. It sounds a little social
00:49:19.000 media ask, but, um, yeah. If somebody says you're an idiot, I might say, man, imagine if you knew me 1.00
00:49:25.880 how much more of an idiot you'd actually know I am. It's disarming. It's like, there's nothing to 1.00
00:49:33.140 respond to you with that. And so that's it when I'm doing it right, that's what I would do. I can't
00:49:41.120 say I always go that route. Or if somebody, you know, says, um, like makes an accusation.
00:49:49.940 If it's, if it's true, I mean, if you feel like you have to address it, then you might say, oh,
00:49:56.380 you know what? You're right. And that was a really hard time for me. And I'm so glad that
00:50:00.780 I addressed it and I'm glad that you're addressing it now too, because here's the path that might help
00:50:07.160 you with anything that you might be dealing with from your past. It's like, it's disarming. It's
00:50:13.340 like you just own it. And there's nothing they can do to, to come back from any of that. I mean,
00:50:19.860 really what's going to happen most of the time is they will say the same thing over again. It's like,
00:50:23.820 okay, well you already said that. Um, again, when I'm doing it right, I try to maintain a one
00:50:30.480 response rule. So if somebody comes to me and is a jerk and I feel like I have to say something back 0.99
00:50:36.880 as a rule that I don't always follow and I've made it a goal to be way better at this as a rule, 0.98
00:50:42.980 I give one response back. So if somebody says something rude, I give my disarming answer back
00:50:47.980 and that's it. I'm allowed one answer. No more. Unless that person changes their behavior. And
00:50:55.400 sometimes that does happen. You know, I've had, I had a situation not too long ago where a guy was a
00:51:03.040 little, a little belligerent with me. This is a guy I know, was a little belligerent with me. And, um,
00:51:09.820 instead of debating the argument, it was, it was a little bit more like personal attacks and insults.
00:51:16.120 Um, and I responded back, I would say in kind, I think I could have done a better job. Uh, but I
00:51:26.000 didn't. And, but I ended up leaving and saying, Hey, you know, like it, like, I guess we're done
00:51:30.740 here or whatever. And that's it. Um, and then later it came back and told me that that day he was going
00:51:36.420 through a very difficult personal situation. And he said, I need to talk with you about it. And I need
00:51:43.740 to say, I'm sorry. And I actually messaged him back. I'm like, Hey, you know what? I'm glad you
00:51:48.360 reached out because I need to say sorry too. And we hopped on a call and we had a great productive
00:51:54.380 conversation because both of us were willing to just let it go. And we said, Hey, you know what?
00:52:00.000 Let's wipe the slate clean. We're good. We're solid. And, and we are, and I've had other people do
00:52:05.300 that. Like they do that all the time. One guy messaged me, he said something on social media
00:52:10.800 and I responded back intelligently, but calmly, and I didn't attack him or insult him or anything.
00:52:16.700 And months later, he sent me a message on Instagram. I remember this. And he said, Hey man,
00:52:21.460 I'm really sorry. That's all I wrote. And I wrote, sorry for what? And he says, well, months ago I had
00:52:27.980 made this comment. And when he said it, I'm like, I do remember that I had made this comment and I had
00:52:33.680 just lost my job and my wife and I had just got into an argument. And then I jumped on social media
00:52:42.180 and that's when I responded to your post or whatever. And he said this, he said, but you
00:52:49.220 handled it with a lot of respect and grace, probably something I wouldn't have done. And I just want to
00:52:54.880 tell you, I'm sorry. And I appreciate that. So you never know. That's great. Um, yeah. Yeah. I mean,
00:53:02.060 sometimes you don't have to respond. I've, I've had, I've had someone go off on me and then literally
00:53:07.520 a week later, they're like, yeah, sorry about that. I didn't even respond to them. They're just
00:53:11.080 like, yeah, I was, I have demons. And I'm like, got it. You know, just whatever. Um, you know,
00:53:17.320 Simon, you said something on there that I think is profound and it's, and I'd like to call it out
00:53:22.320 without wasting energy on those unwilling to listen and change. Here's the reality. When are people
00:53:30.200 typically willing to listen and change? It's not in arguments. It's not through belittlement.
00:53:41.700 It's not. Right. And, and I find it fascinating. Rarely will anyone ever go, oh my gosh, you belittled
00:53:49.000 me, shame me publicly on social media. So, you know what? You're right, Ryan. I see this differently now.
00:53:54.760 Yeah. That'd be awesome. That's not the, that's not the conditions of evolution and, and, and, and
00:54:01.640 change. It's, it never is. So in most cases, public haters are not in the space of change.
00:54:08.940 They're in the space of validating how they already feel. That's why they're publicly hating you.
00:54:15.580 They're not reaching out for insight. So, you know, and I think that's, I think it's important for us
00:54:23.220 all to remember that. Whenever someone is engaged in an argument or is the art, what's the root of
00:54:29.460 the argument? Is it to be enlightened, to evolve and change? Are they even in a growth mindset or do
00:54:37.480 they have a fixed mindset and they're just validating their existing feelings by lashing out on you? If
00:54:41.600 that's, if it's the latter, then there, it's a waste of energy and time. There, there is no change in
00:54:48.060 that circumstance. So don't, don't waste your time. Yeah. Well, I think it goes back to what
00:54:54.560 we were saying earlier, uh, with the gentleman who needs to talk with his wife about his pornography
00:55:00.560 use, identify the outcome. What, what do you want from this? You know, if there's a hater,
00:55:09.660 do you want to be left alone? In that case, then just leave it alone. Cause engaging is going to
00:55:15.220 only exacerbate the problem. Is it to convince somebody? If you want to convince somebody,
00:55:21.680 then you have to deescalate. You have to diffuse. That's the only way you can do that to your point.
00:55:26.740 Yep. If it's to teach a lesson to everybody else, which I have, you know, like if somebody comes at me
00:55:33.320 on something like hunting, for example, I, I can respond intelligently and then take that conversation
00:55:40.420 and share it with other people to enlighten other people who might be more poised to learn something
00:55:47.520 because they're not agitated the way that the responder might've been. So think about what the
00:55:52.580 outcome is and act accordingly, which is a good reminder for me. I need to do better at that.
00:56:00.220 So it's a good reminder for me. Yes. I do have time for one more.
00:56:03.180 Okay. Uh, Peter Betancourt, if you could go back and redo an interview, who would you choose and why?
00:56:12.300 Hmm. I don't know. I, gosh, I have to think I was looking at it today cause I was, uh, putting
00:56:19.660 together a podcast for our next interview, 560 of them. I mean, there's been interviews and I'm not
00:56:25.560 going to say, but there's been interviews that I probably just would not have released at all,
00:56:29.880 you know, and, and, and, and I don't think I'd go back and actually do it at all because I would
00:56:36.420 not see a different outcome. And it wasn't disagreement. I I've never had one where it's
00:56:40.800 been such, actually, I did have one guy who I asked a, I asked a question and I don't know why
00:56:47.740 he got so agitated. It was a little bit of a, like a pushback on something he said. So I asked a
00:56:54.300 follow-up question and he got so agitated and he hung up. I was interviewing him for my podcast
00:57:01.840 and I asked him a question about what something means. Like, Oh, can you, I don't, you said this
00:57:08.740 word or you said this, I can't remember exactly what it was, but you said this word or you said
00:57:12.700 this thing. What do you mean by that? And I think he took it as confrontational or challenging.
00:57:18.700 And he's like, he said something like, if you don't know what that means, you're an idiot and 1.00
00:57:23.960 I don't have time for this. Or he's like something like, and hung up. So I, so I emailed him and I 1.00
00:57:30.840 said, Hey man, that was the strangest thing I've ever had happened. I'm not sure why you hung up when
00:57:38.780 I asked you a question. And he wrote back and he's very agitated. He said, well, you're an idiot.
00:57:44.780 And if you're not doing your audience any justice, justice or favor, I'm like, Oh, okay. 1.00
00:57:51.860 Best wishes to you. Like you were on my podcast. I was asking you questions. That's how this works.
00:57:58.620 So I've had that, but I would not interview that guy again. Um, I don't know. I, I don't know. I don't,
00:58:07.580 I can't answer that. I mean, we've done 560 interviews at this point. And I think if there was
00:58:12.600 one that I'd want to go back and redo, I would probably just do a part two and yeah,
00:58:20.560 which you've done a lot of it. Yeah. And I go back and I do interview with those individuals. So
00:58:25.320 I don't know. I, I think more than just redoing it, I guess this, maybe this falls into line with
00:58:31.300 my thinking that I don't get that chance. So I don't really need to entertain it all that much.
00:58:35.520 Um, I think there's lessons to be learned. And I do that after every interview, I do an after
00:58:40.640 action interview and I ask myself, okay, did I accomplish what I wanted to accomplish? Did we
00:58:45.280 address and talk about the thing that I felt was going to be useful to the guys who are listening?
00:58:49.580 Um, what did I do well? Well, I came prepared and I asked great questions. What didn't I do so well?
00:58:55.340 Maybe I got thrown off or maybe he said something that, and I've had this happen where people will say
00:58:59.520 something that's challenging. This is my biggest regret. I'll answer this question this way.
00:59:04.420 My biggest regret in some interviews is that I don't push hard enough back on my, my guest when
00:59:15.020 they say something I don't agree with. I think there's a way to do it tactfully and respectfully,
00:59:19.620 but I really do want to be more forthright if I disagree with something they say. So that's
00:59:27.900 something I'm learning and trying to improve that. So rather than redoing it, there's a lesson that
00:59:34.620 set tends to reoccur for me. Yeah. And, and what, what's at the root of that? Just so you're
00:59:41.940 representing your audience better and getting deeper understanding of the thing that by surface
00:59:48.800 level we might disagree with. I mean, isn't that the point of a good discussion that you walk away
00:59:54.440 with new information and the only way to walk away with new information or insight is to talk
00:59:59.240 with people that you either haven't hurt, heard what they're sharing before, or you disagree with
01:00:03.980 it. So Jordan, uh, Jordan Harbinger, the Jordan Harbinger show, um, he's been a long time advocate
01:00:12.240 and friend. And he said something to me one time. He said, you know, Ryan, as a podcaster, you have a
01:00:17.560 voice. You get to ask people all the questions that you want to ask them, but the people listening,
01:00:21.720 your audience, they don't have a voice. They just have the ears to listen. And your job is to be
01:00:27.880 their mouthpiece. So you need to ask them questions that they would want to have answered. So when
01:00:34.940 somebody, so when somebody brings up a thing that I don't understand, a concept I don't understand,
01:00:41.400 or an issue I don't necessarily agree with, I'm, it's safe to assume that there's other people who
01:00:46.420 are listening who feel the same way. And I've heard podcasts where I'm almost jumping through
01:00:53.020 the radio, like ask this question, ask this question, ask this question. And then the
01:00:56.880 interviewer doesn't ask the question. And I leave the conversation feeling frustrated.
01:01:02.740 And so I assume that's probably happened with our podcast as well. Guys are listening like, Oh,
01:01:07.340 you didn't ask. I wanted to know this. And it's my job to anticipate what those questions might be.
01:01:13.120 And, and also to anticipate, and I can hear them. I can hear them in my, my head when, when,
01:01:19.640 when people hear something and they're like, Oh, Ryan better, he better ask this. He better,
01:01:24.460 I can hear it. And so I better, because my job is to serve the people who are listening.
01:01:30.860 I think an arrogant person might say, Hey, this is my show. I can do what I want.
01:01:35.980 I try not to be arrogant. It does get the better of me at times, but my job is to serve the people
01:01:40.800 who are listening. So I better ask questions that they would want to ask if the roles were reversed,
01:01:45.640 if they were in the room and I was the one listening.
01:01:47.820 Totally. I love it, man. Well, I mean, you mentioned this earlier on the call,
01:01:51.860 um, as you know, an opportunity for us to learn from our past, right. And use that to serve other
01:01:57.440 people. You brought up the divorce, not death, um, course that's going to be up and coming to learn
01:02:03.580 more about that. That's divorce, not death.com, uh, to sign up and, and to reserve a spot,
01:02:09.840 right. For when the, that gets scheduled. Um, as always, you can connect with Mr. Mickler on X and
01:02:15.680 Instagram, um, at Ryan Mickler, uh, any other call outs? No, that's it for now. Um, stay connected
01:02:24.400 on the socials and the newsletter at order of man.com. And then also divorce, not death. You hit them.
01:02:31.220 So guys, really good questions today. I know we got a lot of questions answered, but we have a lot
01:02:36.360 more. So we'll hit those next week and also ones from Facebook as well. So I appreciate you guys.
01:02:42.960 Um, keep the good questions rolling and we'll keep trying to give you answers, but, uh, until then go
01:02:47.380 out there, take action and become a man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of
01:02:56.700 man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.
01:03:01.740 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.