Order of Man - CHRIS HOGAN ｜ Money Tips, Tricks, and Tactics for 2021

00:00:00.000 Money is such a crucial component of every man's life, and yet it's one of the most often

00:00:05.180 overlooked and misunderstood factor to a man's success. Now, I'm not by any means suggesting

00:00:10.880 that money is the only factor to a success, but if we're being truthful, understanding the money

00:00:16.420 game and playing it well gives a man more opportunity, more freedom, and the potential

00:00:21.960 for maximum fulfillment in his life. Today, I'm joined by my friend and repeat guest, Chris Hogan,

00:00:27.860 to talk about money moves as we roll into 2021. Today, we cover everything from financial

00:00:34.600 opportunities that will present themselves, the power and importance of building a financial team,

00:00:40.000 getting yourself out of the rat race, why self-awareness is critical for financial success,

00:00:45.060 and plenty of other tips and tricks and tactics to get a hold of your money situation in 2021.

00:00:51.820 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly charge

00:00:56.520 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time. You are not

00:01:02.380 easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who you are.

00:01:09.520 This is who you will become at the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself

00:01:15.340 a man. Men, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler, and I am the host and the founder of

00:01:20.820 Order of Man podcast, which as of March of this year, 2021, we will be at this thing for six years,

00:01:29.500 and it's been an incredible ride. I want to first and foremost, thank you because without you tuning

00:01:34.540 in and listening in and supporting and sharing and all of the things that you're doing to band with us

00:01:39.940 in this mission to reclaim and restore masculinity, we just would not be where we are. So I want to thank

00:01:44.560 you for that. I've got a great one lined up. I know money issues are topics and issues and

00:01:51.160 conversations that are on a lot of your minds right now as we roll into 2021 and you're thinking

00:01:56.000 about how you can improve your financial situation. So we'll get into that in just a minute. Before we

00:02:01.400 do, I want to make a mention of my show sponsors and friends as it has been for, I believe years now

00:02:08.240 at this point, which is origin main. I want to mention one special thing that we're doing. And I've

00:02:14.060 talked about this on previous podcasts, but as of the middle of January of this year, we are going

00:02:20.460 to be releasing, or I should say origin is going to be releasing their very first beard oil, 100%

00:02:27.420 sourced and made in America, not only the ingredients, but also the packaging and the boxes and everything

00:02:32.900 else. And I've partnered up with them in this project. I've consulted with them, given them ideas,

00:02:38.820 shared different things that they could do looking for unique angles and ideas. And I think

00:02:44.040 we've come up with something very cool with, with beard oil and beard care. So it's not available

00:02:50.240 just yet. It will be over the next two weeks, I imagine. And I want you guys to be one of the

00:02:56.600 first to have access to a very limited run. We're doing this as a test. So if you're interested and

00:03:02.540 you want to support what we're doing and you want to maintain that glorious beard that you have,

00:03:06.820 or you're growing a beard and you want to make sure you're doing it right,

00:03:10.040 then go to originbeardoil.com originbeardoil.com for now, all I need you to do is enter your email

00:03:17.960 address. And that way, when we release this thing, you're going to be one of the first to know before

00:03:23.400 we release it to the public. So I'd like to get it into your hands and on your face before anybody

00:03:27.460 else. So go to originbeardoil.com originbeardoil.com. All right, guys, with that said, and out of the

00:03:34.380 way, let me introduce you to my guests before we get into the conversation. His name is Chris Hogan.

00:03:38.660 He's backed by popular demand. In fact, I think the podcast that we did previously is my number

00:03:46.480 one, most downloaded financially related podcast. So this guy really resonated with a lot of you.

00:03:52.100 He had a lot of great information to share. And today is no different. Now, if you didn't listen

00:03:55.820 to the first podcast, that's okay. I want you to know, Chris is a bestselling author. He's a personal

00:04:01.940 finance expert. He's really one of America's leading voices on retirement, investing, and building

00:04:07.640 wealth. His show, the Chris Hogan show has been downloaded millions of times. He's a contributor

00:04:12.620 on the entree leadership podcast. He's also a member of a Ramsey solutions team, which of course

00:04:19.280 is with Dave Ramsey, one of the premier financial educational or literacy organizations in the world.

00:04:26.380 But more importantly than all of that, Chris has a tremendous ability to break down complex financial

00:04:33.140 topics, boring, mundane topics into easy to digest and apply practical information. That's going to

00:04:40.600 help you thrive. So I hope you enjoy this one. And more importantly than enjoying it, I hope you apply

00:04:45.480 what you learned today. Chris, what's up my friend. Good to talk with you again. It's been a little while.

00:04:50.920 Yeah, right. It's good to be back with you, buddy. How are you?

00:04:54.000 I'm really good. Life is good. I told you before we hit record, we moved up here to Maine almost a couple

00:04:59.500 of years ago and that's been an interesting roller coaster, but all good. But yeah, things are really

00:05:06.060 good, man. I appreciate you asking about that. Yeah, no, glad to hear that. Yeah, you know, it's

00:05:11.060 been a kind of a crazy year. I mean, you asked how I was doing and it's been good for us, but I know

00:05:17.460 for a lot of people, it's been pretty wild, pretty unstable. I know a lot of people are struggling and

00:05:22.920 hurting. And so I'm really looking forward to this conversation because I think at the root of

00:05:27.800 everything, finances tends to be a pretty big issue around a lot of people suffering, quite frankly.

00:05:32.540 And I think there's a lot of things that people can do to get their things, their finances dialed in.

00:05:36.900 Yeah, no, I agree with you. I mean, this year has been an absolute doozy. I mean, and as far as

00:05:44.180 it's changed the way that we hang out with friends, it's changed the way that we connect with family

00:05:49.800 and the way we go to church, the way we grocery shop. I mean, it has caused a lot of change,

00:05:54.740 but you're right in looking at this. I think, you know, it's that mindset of even in the midst of

00:05:59.520 change, we can grow. And I think, you know, financially, I think this situation has caused

00:06:06.620 a lot of people to wake up and really look at their financial situation totally different.

00:06:12.620 I think, you know, if anything, we talk about an emergency fund here at Ramsey Solutions.

00:06:18.120 There's been no period of time where we've had greater validation

00:06:21.660 in the need of having money set aside, ready to help you if and when life happens. And life has

00:06:28.820 happened in 2020. And Ryan, you're right. Money impacts every phase of our lives. And so it's

00:06:34.740 important for us to have a plan. Yeah, it's interesting because as this COVID thing came

00:06:40.540 along, one of the things that I made a conscious effort about was actually taking money out of my

00:06:45.720 savings account because I'm a firm believer in what you guys do. So I had the money set aside.

00:06:49.580 We're all good there. We've got other investments and we've done the baby steps and all of that stuff.

00:06:54.440 And we actually took money out and I just, I put it in my safe. I'm like, I just want to have cash

00:06:59.280 on hand. I want to have it here. And without some of the steps that you've taught people, and it's a

00:07:04.340 very systematic, simplified way to approach your finances. That's the thing that I think is hard

00:07:10.820 for people is with a financial planning background. It's so mysterious to people.

00:07:16.680 Yes. Yes.

00:07:18.020 And so they, they, they, they painted as some sort of like grandiose thing that they can't

00:07:23.680 understand. And you guys have done such a phenomenal job at saying, no, no, no, it doesn't

00:07:28.180 need to be a mystery. It's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

00:07:31.560 Yes.

00:07:31.900 Just do that and you'll be fine.

00:07:33.660 Yeah. And, and you know what? And even despite having the recipe, uh, and, and the plan to

00:07:39.200 be able to follow, you still have people who are reluctant, uh, to do it. And there's really

00:07:43.940 three reasons for that guilt, shame, and cynicism. And the guilt stands in the way because they're,

00:07:52.640 they feel guilt of what they've done. Um, and then they have shame of what they haven't done

00:07:59.340 and their position. And then the cynicism is the actual doubt that this thing will actually be

00:08:05.660 able to help them. And so really trying to work through those to help people go, no, no, no,

00:08:12.340 it doesn't matter your income level. You can follow this recipe. And so that's what, you know,

00:08:17.540 I beat the drum of, and then I, you know, Ryan, I realized my own limitations. I can't make people do

00:08:23.480 it. Right. I wish I could, I've got family members that don't follow the plan, but they'll call me and

00:08:29.000 ask me questions. Right. And I go, I've answered that for you like three or four times. You need

00:08:32.980 to do some change. Right. But, but it is a matter of trying to appeal to people that, Hey, let's get

00:08:37.760 that boot off your throat. And I think we are so used to being stressed out about money or because

00:08:43.480 we don't understand it, doubting that it can actually be fixed, that we're hesitant and reluctant.

00:08:50.380 Yeah. It's, um, it's interesting. You talked about family members and you've shared this stuff with

00:08:54.900 them. Are, do you think it's just that people are looking for an easier answer? Like, why wouldn't

00:09:00.120 they just take this stuff and run? It's like, for me, I think, all right, look, maybe I'm not as

00:09:05.180 dialed in with my finances as I want. I know things need to change. I know a lot of guys are experiencing

00:09:09.680 that to me. I'm like, all right, this guy seems to know what he's doing. Like, I'm going to give it a

00:09:14.300 shot, you know, and see if it works. But I think so many people are so stuck in their ways that it's

00:09:21.000 like, I'm not even going to try it. Or I'm going to ask you three or four times in hopes that you

00:09:25.420 give me a different answer. That's maybe a little bit easier than what you gave me before.

00:09:30.320 Right. Well, and I think it is a lot of that. And I think people have to get to that never again

00:09:35.180 moment. Um, and I call it the uncle spot, right? I grew up with five older uncles. And so, you know,

00:09:42.400 they were all various athletes. Two of them were into judo and another two were into wrestling. So I was

00:09:47.820 the judo dummy and the wrestling dummy for many years of my life. And then around age 12, my body

00:09:54.280 started to change. And, and so I was able to hold my own with these men that were older than me,

00:09:59.560 but it's getting at that point where my uncles used to get my arm behind my back. They'd say,

00:10:03.620 say uncle, I'm not doing it. I ain't doing it. You know? And then finally you say uncle,

00:10:08.500 I think a lot of people financially have to get to that point, unfortunately, where they say,

00:10:13.700 I I'm tired of this money stuff, not only causing me stress and affecting my sleep,

00:10:18.940 but now it's impacting my relationships. And I don't think people understand that,

00:10:23.140 that that stress will impact how you're relating with your spouse. And unfortunately that money

00:10:28.260 stress will also impact how well you connect with your kids. Mom and dad don't feel like playing as

00:10:33.480 much because they got collectors calling or they have bills that are due. And so really seeing that

00:10:38.680 thread and I've seen it up close and personal. So I'm trying to help people kind of work their way

00:10:43.640 through it. But I think we also have this mentality. You and I are close to the same age.

00:10:48.720 This I dream a genie, right? Like people just want to blink and have stuff just get fixed.

00:10:54.340 And that's on TV. That's not in reality. We actually have to work. We have to sacrifice

00:10:59.640 and we got to want something big enough and better enough that we're willing to change what we're doing

00:11:04.640 right now. Yeah, I think that's a good point. I wish it wasn't the case. You know, I wish,

00:11:10.900 look, I'm no different. I wish we didn't have to have to hit rock bottom for this to wake us up.

00:11:18.080 You know, you talk about, you've seen it up close and personal. It's, I think if I remember

00:11:21.920 correctly, you started your career in the quote unquote industry as a debt collector. Is that

00:11:27.740 right? Yeah. I was doing consumer finance. So we were doing personal loans at the beginning of the

00:11:32.660 month, personal loans and mortgages, high interest rate. And then at the end of the month, I got the

00:11:36.940 opportunity to have to go collect. And so that was eyeopening for me. That's where I got my PhD in

00:11:43.760 economics, to be honest with you. How so? Explain that. What do you mean by that?

00:11:47.460 Well, I mean, you look at the, on the screen and you see this account, like people were pumped up to

00:11:51.600 come in to get the money. Right. And, and so, you know, you feel like you're helping people. And,

00:11:56.160 you know, I look back at some of the interest rates at 18, 19, 20% on a personal loan. I mean,

00:12:00.580 that's legalized loan sharking is what it was. Um, but, but, but, but doing that. And so then at

00:12:06.420 the end of the month, you're calling to get a payment and, you know, sometimes going out and

00:12:11.660 meeting with people trying to, and you, you, what I got a PhD and understanding the account number on

00:12:17.680 the screen was an individual. It was a family and the dollar amount that was owed and there was a

00:12:23.920 behind, these are family. These are people that have kids. They've got jobs that they've lost.

00:12:28.960 They've got illnesses, uh, and sitting down and talking to them. It just gave me this whole

00:12:33.840 different side of this. Isn't just about numbers on paper. These are people's lives.

00:12:39.320 Right. And so really being able to empathize and work with people and to guide them. Uh, I realized

00:12:45.180 that I was quickly going to be leaving that industry just because I knew I had to, I had to do

00:12:50.080 things to help people not put them further behind. Yeah. And you bring up an interesting point because

00:12:55.860 I think a lot of the times we're led to believe that, you know, finances is just money, right?

00:13:00.080 And, or, or, or finances is just math, I should say. Right. But what's interesting about that is

00:13:05.900 that if that were truly the case, if that it's all that it was, we'd all be independently wealthy

00:13:11.640 because we all know two plus two equals four. Yes. So there's this other dynamic of, of, uh,

00:13:18.540 human interest and emotion and all of this like human stuff that goes into this world of finance

00:13:27.380 and money that tends to, at times, frankly, muddy and cloudy, the process and become our own worst

00:13:34.980 enemy. Yeah. Well, and you, with your financial background, you know, all the terms and stuff you

00:13:39.540 learned, uh, you know, as a financial planner and in this industry, and it can feel almost like this,

00:13:45.320 this exclusive club, right? We're throwing around debt and debt to income ratio and compound interest

00:13:51.420 and all this stuff. And so one of the things I try to do, and we do here at Ramsey solutions

00:13:55.600 is to talk number one with people and to people, not at them. Meaning we're not trying to use the

00:14:01.760 vernacular. We're not trying to use the fancy word. We want to, we want to be able to take that

00:14:05.780 concept and be able to boil it down so people can get it. Right. And it's like this concept of

00:14:10.580 budgeting. Like typically you say budget, people break out into hives and start twitching, right?

00:14:15.120 They, they, they see it as this handcuffs and I can't do stuff. And I go, no, no, no. Budgeting

00:14:20.120 is simply you understanding your income, what's coming in and understanding what your expenses are,

00:14:25.700 the fix and the variable. And so what we're going to do is tell money where to go instead of

00:14:30.480 wondering where it went. So what I'm going to do is give you more control over your money. And when

00:14:35.420 you have more control, you feel like you got to raise. And so it's just people seeing it that way.

00:14:39.920 And then they go, Oh, and I love Ryan for me on stage or as I used to, as I traveled,

00:14:45.180 like everyone, I'm traveling anymore right now, but I used to at the events, I'd love it. As I was

00:14:49.800 talking, I could literally see the light bulbs go off for people that they were starting to see

00:14:55.480 something differently than how they saw it before. And to me, that's a win.

00:14:59.160 Yeah. It's a, it's, it's, it's, it's, I sit, I sat in an interesting spot because I represented a lot

00:15:08.200 of these financial firms. I worked with investment companies. I worked with insurance companies and,

00:15:13.100 but I also worked with, with my clients. And I felt like I sat as this liaison between

00:15:18.780 what my clients needed and wanted and what the financial industry, the insurance companies,

00:15:24.160 investment companies I was representing wanted.

00:15:25.900 Right. And I became very jaded with the process. It seemed to me that the industry at large,

00:15:31.180 just generally speaking, wanted to confuse people in a way. And, and, you know, you saw it in the way

00:15:38.540 that you would go into financial advisors offices and quite literally, they would have this big,

00:15:43.120 beautiful leather chair and it would be slightly higher than the toned down version of their client's

00:15:50.340 chairs. And it's like, I'm sitting above you. And that's what the industry seemed like.

00:15:55.840 And I became very jaded with that process because people were hurting, they were struggling,

00:16:00.120 they were confused. And frankly, it was in the industry's best interest to keep them confused

00:16:06.120 because confused people are more easily manipulated. They're, they're more easily controlled and we can

00:16:13.520 extract more dollars from these individuals.

00:16:16.120 Hmm. Yeah. No, unfortunately you're right. There's a lot of unscrupulous people out there.

00:16:21.080 Uh, but I, you know, and, and so I always encourage people to get somebody with the heart of a teacher.

00:16:27.460 Uh, that's one of the things I tell them, whether they're working with somebody for their investments,

00:16:31.100 they're working with somebody with their taxes or insurance and someone with the heart of a teacher

00:16:35.040 is someone that's truly trying to help you. Like they're not just trying to sell you some stuff.

00:16:39.560 Um, and so, I mean, that, that spirit is something you can easily feel on people and sense it. Uh,

00:16:45.620 but when you're building a team and you're getting people around you, it just makes it so much easier

00:16:50.100 to reach out with questions. Like I just reached out to my tax guy just a couple of weeks ago.

00:16:54.860 And then I reached out to my insurance guy three months prior to that. And it was a matter of just

00:16:59.240 firing off a couple of emails or making some phone calls. And so when you got people in your corner,

00:17:03.620 I know what I call them. I can trust what they're telling me. And that makes a big difference.

00:17:08.680 I like that you're talking about in the concept of building a team,

00:17:11.940 the way that I look at it. And maybe you, maybe you see it a little differently. Maybe you see it

00:17:16.000 the same is that I, as the head of my household, the, the leader of, of, of what we're doing here

00:17:23.600 and in my business and my community, I'm the coach. All right. So I see the grand vision

00:17:28.760 and then I bring players onto the field that are going to help me accomplish what I need to

00:17:34.680 accomplish specifically from the perspective of finances. I bring in an accountant. I bring in

00:17:39.160 an investment advisor. I bring in my insurance agent. They're all part of the team. They are not

00:17:44.320 the team. They are a component of the team with me as the coach of the team. That's exactly right.

00:17:49.300 I've used the analogy similar to that where a me, I'm the team owner, right? And so I I'll bring in

00:17:58.020 some, some, some other coaches to help me with this, to achieve that. And so you're absolutely

00:18:03.960 right. But the team thing is important just because, you know, I see family, you know, as a

00:18:09.480 team and you, you want to work with someone that understands your goals that you can get real with.

00:18:14.240 You know, I connect with my investment professional a couple of times a year just to get updated.

00:18:18.360 They know the goals for the buckets of money that they're in charge of. And so I talk about it that

00:18:23.540 way and I go, okay, well, this is what this is doing. And this is what I need to make sure we're on

00:18:27.580 track. Are we good? And they'll let me know some little tweaks that can be made to make big

00:18:32.300 differences. So all in all, I'm trying to break down barriers, right? Barriers that are standing

00:18:37.780 in the way of people making progress. And I talk about that on my show, the Chris Hogan show,

00:18:42.680 you know, I tell them I'm focused and not finished. That's my tagline. And all I'm saying is,

00:18:47.040 is I'm focused on what I want and I'm not finished trying to go after it. And that's that daily focus

00:18:53.040 and effort and intentionality, but also sacrifice. Um, and so, you know, helping people understand

00:18:58.680 that formula is crucial. I had a guy reach out to me the other day and he, he, uh, I'm paraphrasing

00:19:05.680 here, but his question was, or, or his scenario was that he was having his wife, uh, manage the

00:19:12.320 finances, the budget, the things like that, because she was good at it and he wasn't. And, uh, and he

00:19:19.240 said, am I relinquishing some of my sovereignty, some of my power? And I told the guy, I said,

00:19:24.460 no, not at all. Like you're, you're bringing the right people into the right positions in order to

00:19:30.300 get the job done. Like you don't have to feel threatened or your masculinity doesn't have to

00:19:33.720 have to be, be on, on, under the lens because you're having somebody else do something that

00:19:39.220 they're good at. But I think there's a lot of guys who feel like if they give any sort of this,

00:19:43.440 this stuff away that somehow like they're relinquishing their control or they're not

00:19:49.000 doing what they should be doing. Have you experienced that? I have, I have. And I've

00:19:52.280 actually, I had a guy who was extremely egotistical about it, to be honest. Um, and I was able to share

00:19:57.980 with him one story that began to give him a whole different perspective. And the story was I had

00:20:04.160 coached a couple and he was good at it. She didn't like it. She was scared of it, but she agreed to have

00:20:10.440 a budget meeting. They communicated about it and had a general plan, but he was the person that X,

00:20:15.580 X, you know, executed the plan. Well, he was in a car accident, uh, and ended up in the ICU for

00:20:22.060 almost 45 days. Uh, he had actually held on to life and made it through, but he had rehab, had a lot

00:20:28.480 to do. He had to learn to walk again, uh, and communicate again. And so in that time, I remember her

00:20:33.900 coming in with this box of stuff, uh, because she knew of it, but she didn't know how to do it.

00:20:40.540 And so I told this gentleman who had the ego, I said, listen to me, I said, you don't want to be

00:20:45.320 that family. And I said, so the best instance is to cross train, meaning you understand what's going

00:20:51.740 on with the kids. Cause his wife was a stay at home mom. You need to know what's going on with the

00:20:55.940 kids and how to be integrated into that. And your wife needs to know how to step in and do the bill pay.

00:21:01.060 I said that way, this cross training, what you do is you end up protecting the family

00:21:05.360 because if one piece goes down or gets ill or, you know, God forbid something else,

00:21:12.380 you don't cripple the family. And I said, no one would intentionally do that. And so that really

00:21:17.940 resonated with him. And, and so it was one of those, this cross training thing, they really took

00:21:22.660 it to the extreme, meaning they would rotate every 30 days bill pay, right? Uh, they would do it

00:21:29.480 together. And then they had the bad love. He loved to pay online. She liked checks. Like that was one

00:21:34.300 of their battles. I'm like, guys, let's not really, let's not split atoms here. As long as

00:21:40.620 the daggone bill gets paid, that's what matters. But yeah, I think that idea of cross training each

00:21:45.240 other, it just helps the family be stronger. I'm going to have to, uh, think about that a little

00:21:51.300 bit in my own personal situation, because frankly, the way that I've done it is I'm good at this stuff.

00:21:57.040 I like this stuff. It's fascinating to me. I've got a background in it. So I've told my wife,

00:22:02.660 Hey, look, I think this is one step better than not having the conversation. But now that you say

00:22:07.300 this, I'm like, maybe I need to do a better job at this, but I've told her, I'm like, Hey, look,

00:22:11.160 if, if I die or I get an injury or I become incapacitated, call these people, here's the con,

00:22:18.260 just call these people. I trust them. They're going to help you with this stuff, but I might need to do a

00:22:23.780 little bit more thorough job than just that. Well, and not only here's the thing, the next time

00:22:27.920 you meet up with them or do a zoom call, have her join it. Right. Um, and I got to see this

00:22:33.280 firsthand. A good friend of mine was tragically killed in a car accident. Um, and it was one of

00:22:38.920 those that just broke everyone's heart. Uh, they had stuff in place, insurance and all the stuff,

00:22:43.460 but the beauty of it was you got to see the wife reach out to the insurance person. And so because

00:22:49.900 she had been involved, it wasn't a first time to meet in this hard situation. It was the continuation

00:22:56.380 of the relationship they had met before. And so during this hard time for her, she wasn't connecting

00:23:02.520 with a stranger. She was connecting with an associate. And so I would say just, yeah, just have

00:23:08.480 them involved in the meeting. Uh, that way they get to a chance to get on a first name basis. Um,

00:23:13.700 and, and it just, again, you're strengthening the family all the way around. How do you suggest

00:23:18.680 getting a wife on board with these types of conversations who just is not even remotely

00:23:25.680 interested in having any of this conversation? One answer, a one word answer, kids. Okay. If you

00:23:34.740 have kids for the sake of the kids, for the sake of the kids future, uh, it's imperative that we do this

00:23:41.520 together. It is imperative because like you said, you told your wife, God forbid, something happens

00:23:47.140 to me, you're going to be taken care of, but it's one of those things, God forbid, something happens

00:23:52.340 to her. You want to make sure you're taken care of. And so it's oftentimes the thing that will unite

00:23:58.440 couples more than anything else. It typically starts with kids. And then eventually what I want them to

00:24:04.080 understand is kids grow up and leave like they're supposed to, right? So, so you need to make sure

00:24:09.420 you guys have some dreams together too. Yeah, that's good. So this might sound maybe off a

00:24:16.580 little bit, but basically what you're saying is find, find her, I don't know, pressure point,

00:24:23.280 pain, concern, motivation, motivation. Okay. That's a better way to say it. Sure.

00:24:27.000 Point of concern, dream. I think it's kind of all weaved in there because we all have all three,

00:24:32.540 like we all do. I don't care how big or how strong or how tough you are. We all have those things

00:24:36.780 that we're worried about. And typically as a parent, you want your child to be okay. Right?

00:24:42.320 So that means you want to make sure that ducks are in a row, right? I've never met a parent or

00:24:46.200 grandparent that doesn't want better for their kid than what they had growing up. I just never,

00:24:50.640 it's never happened. Of course. So how is that going to happen? Yeah. You've got to do better,

00:24:55.120 right? You got to work together and do better as much as possible.

00:24:58.500 I think what you're talking about here and the term I've used in the past is framing,

00:25:02.880 right? Like, look, you're a marketer, right? You've got these backgrounds, but you also market

00:25:08.020 what you're doing because it's important and you want to put it out in the world. And I think

00:25:13.020 obviously with your energy and your level of enthusiasm, you understand this and you framed

00:25:18.680 these conversations in a way that will be meaningful to the people that you're trying to serve,

00:25:25.400 your wife and your children included.

00:25:27.100 Oh, without a doubt. And I think, you know, you start to tap into that, the family,

00:25:32.160 the stuff you're trying to accomplish. And I think that's the thing that I'm trying to help

00:25:35.660 people tap into the most. Like, what is it that you're dreaming about? Like, what's the thing that

00:25:40.700 you, you'd say, if money wasn't an issue, I'd love to be doing X, Y, or Z. And so putting yourself

00:25:46.240 on a plan to be able to work through this process, the recipe to put yourself through the baby steps

00:25:51.720 that are going to give you the opportunity to earn the right to do more of what you want to do.

00:25:57.100 And so it's just mindset. It's tapping in. I mean, you and I both know motivation is crucial.

00:26:02.480 And internal motivation is absolutely incredible because that means you wake up and you know what

00:26:08.820 your vision is of what it is you're trying to accomplish. And I love being around people like

00:26:12.820 that because nobody gets to stand in their way, right? You know, like COVID. COVID might be a setback,

00:26:17.900 but they just set up for a comeback, right? These people think differently. And so that's an important

00:26:23.380 process as you're dealing with money that you're connected to your dream, but you're rooted in your

00:26:28.420 plan. You know, it's funny when you talk about this, this COVID thing is, you know, the comeback.

00:26:34.560 And I thought about 2020 and frankly, it's been the best year that I've ever had. And it's weird

00:26:44.080 because, you know, in a way, I think sometimes we have a tendency of maybe feeling a little bit

00:26:48.860 guilty about that because I know people are really struggling, but also I've looked for the

00:26:55.160 opportunities and I've positioned myself career-wise, financially to be able to be okay. And I've heard

00:27:01.600 you talk about 2021 as being a year of opportunity. And I would love for you to riff on that because

00:27:09.140 I think a lot of people are only seeing the dark clouds. They're not seeing the silver lining.

00:27:13.580 Yeah. Well, first and foremost, congratulations on this year going well for you. Here's one thing

00:27:18.560 I know for sure. I watched the NBA finals in the bubble. I watched the Superbowl. I watched the team

00:27:23.860 win. When they held up that trophy, they didn't apologize. They held that up because they won and

00:27:29.600 they celebrated. So I know this year has been tough for a lot of people. But I think if we think

00:27:35.400 through and go back and look as I've done and really reflected, there's been some losses in this

00:27:40.500 year. And as far as some money and events, some things that you couldn't do, but I've also gained

00:27:46.620 a lot and I've gained a lot in as far as perspective, understanding I've had, you know, more time with my

00:27:52.540 kids and more time to see things differently and clarify. But as much as people want to blink and make

00:27:58.740 2020 go away just for 2021 to get here, if we don't change our thinking and we don't change our

00:28:05.720 actions and we don't change our expectations, we're just going to get more of the same. And I see this

00:28:10.740 year as an opportunity for us to be able to embrace the way that we connect with family and friends

00:28:15.580 differently. It's our new normal. And so let's not be surprised with it. Let's utilize it. I think

00:28:21.860 opportunities are coming. You know, they always do. In the midst of struggle, opportunities become more

00:28:27.580 clear because we begin to think differently. I think we're going to see more businesses come out of this

00:28:32.640 pandemic. We're going to see people changing the way that they do business. And we're going to see some

00:28:37.360 shifts. And then those shifts are opportunities. But I want to encourage people, let's stop griping about

00:28:42.980 what we couldn't do. And let's focus more on the controllables. What can you control? And Ryan, I firmly

00:28:49.480 believe there's five things I can control. I am a man of faith. So my faith is number one. Number two is my

00:28:55.460 attitude. Next is outlook, then my responses, and my attitude, you know, my actions, excuse me. So

00:29:06.320 I've got my faith, my attitude, my outlook, my responses, and my actions. I can stay in control

00:29:11.800 of those five things. I can do what Hogan needs done. Yeah, that's good. That's really good. Because

00:29:19.300 again, a lot of people are so focused on what is going wrong. Um, you know, I've thought about my

00:29:27.720 life and I'm, I'm almost 40 years old. And I think a lot of this just comes with experience and a level

00:29:34.580 of maturity. And I was thinking about the time that I would have this afternoon with my kids,

00:29:38.440 my youngest son, he's four years old. He came to me and he said, Hey, dad, will you help me build?

00:29:42.460 I don't know something with Legos. I don't know what he's building, but he's like, Hey dad,

00:29:45.460 will you help me build that? And, and this was just this morning before we got on the call. And

00:29:49.300 I said, yeah, you know, when I get done with our conversation, I've got with Chris and, um,

00:29:53.420 I've got to send a few emails, but after that, yeah, you got, you got it. We'll go build it.

00:29:57.640 And I feel like I'm in a very special place where I can be able to carve out time to be able to do

00:30:02.960 that. But I know not everybody is in that situation. And I know there was a time in my life where it was

00:30:08.620 like, but I can't do that. I've got to work till seven o'clock tonight, or I've got an appointment

00:30:12.260 at eight o'clock as I was trying to build my financial planning practice. How do you make

00:30:18.260 that, that change from, Hey, I've got to be the sole provider and just like get a bunch of income

00:30:24.960 and money coming into, you know, I've got the freedom and flexibility, the money stuff's taken

00:30:29.840 care of the mortgage is paid. The cars are paid off. Yeah. How do you get to that point?

00:30:35.760 Well, you know what? That's a, that's a million dollar question to be honest. And I think it's this

00:30:40.200 mindset of understanding when is enough enough. Um, and, and, and, and, uh, virtually not getting

00:30:46.660 caught in the rat race, I think is really important. Uh, meaning, you know, what are you chasing?

00:30:52.840 Um, you know, and so I think, you know, looking at this and understanding, you know, we only have so

00:30:57.460 much time with our kids. Uh, but that mindset for me, the other side of it is learning to be present.

00:31:03.860 Um, and what I mean by that is, is that, you know, obviously we all struggle with balance,

00:31:09.020 right? And so you'll watch these ridiculous talks that tell you to be balanced and perfectly in all

00:31:14.920 category. You know, I'm like, okay, that's Narnia. When you find it, point me to it and I'll go,

00:31:19.820 let me know where it's at. Yeah. I'll go through the closet with you and we can go visit this Narnia.

00:31:24.560 Uh, but no, there's no such thing as balance. I think what you is you, you, you're present.

00:31:29.100 What I mean by that is when I'm at work, I'm a hundred percent at work. Um, when I'm, when I'm

00:31:34.180 at home, when I'm with my boys, I'm a hundred percent with them. So be a hundred percent of

00:31:38.260 where you are. Right. But then also have that internal discipline to kind of go, Hey, I do need

00:31:43.820 to make sure I'm being intentional in time with my kids, or I do need to be intentional in time for

00:31:48.440 self, right. Being able to read some things that you enjoy or watch some, you know, and so it's one of

00:31:54.920 those things of being present I found has helped me stay more rooted than trying to be balanced.

00:32:01.440 Men, let me, uh, take a timeout on the conversation very quickly. Uh, we've had a lot of men join our

00:32:07.580 exclusive brotherhood, the iron council, uh, over the past couple of weeks now. And this, this is

00:32:12.120 expected. This has happened over the past several years, as many of you are really focused on improving

00:32:17.060 your life in 2021 and gaining access to tools and the frameworks and accountability that you need

00:32:22.960 to thrive and win. And if that sounds like something you're after, then I would encourage you to look

00:32:27.320 into, uh, what the iron council offers and how banding with nearly 800 other men is going to help

00:32:34.080 you thrive in every facet of your life. Now I started the iron council years ago, because I

00:32:40.200 personally wanted a place where I could connect with high caliber men and share ideas and strategies

00:32:44.660 and resources. And frankly, as I looked around in my own personal situation, uh, I couldn't find it

00:32:50.760 locally. So I had to create it and that's what the iron council is. So now is the perfect time to band

00:32:56.260 with us. Uh, we're going to be looking into shutting down enrollment, uh, in January and, uh, not sure

00:33:04.200 we're going to be opening that back up again. So if you are interested, get to it right now, uh, set

00:33:09.280 yourself up for the best year of your life. You can check it out at order of man.com slash iron council

00:33:14.500 again, order of man.com slash iron council. Do that after the conversation for now, we'll get

00:33:20.860 back to it with Chris. You know what I've realized about presence too, is it seems to me that it

00:33:26.940 either diminishes or eliminates guilt because I know in my life when, for example, I don't show up

00:33:33.960 fully the way I need to show up at work. Then I punch out for the day at five or six o'clock or

00:33:39.060 whatever it is. And I come home and instead of being present and eating dinner as a family

00:33:44.400 and being there and asking my kids about their day and laughing with them and telling jokes and

00:33:50.320 stories, I'm all up. I'm up in here because I'm like, Oh shit, I didn't call this client and I

00:33:55.620 didn't do this thing. And I could have done this better. And because I wasn't present, it bleeds over

00:34:01.120 into my ability to be present in other more important facets of my life.

00:34:05.640 No, you're absolutely right. And you know what? It's okay. Like it, when you take that and you

00:34:11.040 become aware of it, you're learning from it. Now, what you want to do is work to be able to minimize

00:34:15.640 that, right? Work to be able to shrink that down to where it's not happening all the time, but it

00:34:21.100 becomes the anomaly. And so I think, you know, we got, you know what, Ryan, here's something we've

00:34:26.080 got to learn how to do for ourselves. We got to learn how to extend ourselves some grace. We got to

00:34:31.020 learn how to just be able to breathe and acknowledge we're not perfect. We're going to make some

00:34:34.840 mistakes. The key is, is don't keep making the same ones. Like, you know, you keep making the

00:34:39.880 same mistake over and over. We can't call it a mistake anymore. It's called a choice.

00:34:44.620 And so what we got to do is give ourselves grace. And this is so important to me

00:34:48.200 because you can't give it to yourself. You won't be able to extend it to someone else.

00:34:53.760 And so I think us being able to forgive ourselves, give ourselves some grace,

00:34:57.500 understand that this has been a year of challenge. We're all learning how to do some things better.

00:35:02.040 Um, people are, are, are, are, are more volatile right now, but coming off the election and all

00:35:07.960 this tension and the COVID. And so being able to give ourselves some grace means we can extend it

00:35:12.860 to others. How do you strike the balance between affording yourself some grace and leaving room on

00:35:20.580 the table? Like I know I can do better and I don't happen to be doing it. Well, I think the grace is a

00:35:26.560 matter of you look and you go, who did it impact? Right? Like one of my episodes coming up on my show,

00:35:31.160 I'm talking about goal setting through a different lens, but it's a matter of, okay, well, who did it

00:35:35.940 impact? Like if I didn't do something well, did that impact my kids? Did it impact someone in my

00:35:41.080 family? Did it impact a business thing? What was that? And okay, what's the ranking? Like who's the

00:35:47.100 priority in my life? And so I want to make sure those priorities get the majority of the attention.

00:35:52.720 And so I want to make sure I'm intentional with that. And so, you know, self-assessment,

00:35:56.320 self-awareness is big. All right, you got me going, buddy. So you got grace is imperative.

00:36:01.700 Self-awareness is crucial. And self-awareness is understanding, hey, what is your tendency?

00:36:07.100 Do you get home after work and it takes you an hour to wind down? Well, then I'm going to encourage

00:36:11.540 you to change your day up a little bit. You need to do that wind down before you get home. Because

00:36:16.720 when you step through the door, the kids don't need functional planner. They don't need author,

00:36:20.900 speaker, and coach. They need dad. And so how do you begin to wind that down? And so for me,

00:36:25.860 it was the process of what kind of music am I listening to? I love to laugh. Like I'm serious

00:36:30.900 about progress, but I love to laugh. So for me, listening to some comedy on the way home helped

00:36:35.440 me to kind of decompress and relax a little bit more. And so it's, we know ourselves. I just think

00:36:41.500 we have to begin to do the things we know we need to do for ourselves. And that might be some time

00:36:46.900 alone. Or a buddy of mine, he's got small kids right now. And he and his wife, you know,

00:36:51.600 it's the first, they had twins. And so, you know,

00:36:54.580 For their first, they had twins?

00:36:56.320 Yeah, right out of the gate. So they, they got double drama. Right. And so I told him, I said,

00:37:01.120 Hey, your wife could use an opportunity to be able to sleep in. Why don't you take the kids the first

00:37:06.180 half of the morning? Like let her sleep in or go get coffee or do whatever she is. But you've got the

00:37:11.260 kids from like, from, from seven to 10. I said, and then what you could do is you come back,

00:37:16.360 you guys hang out together. And then maybe from, from noon to through two is your time.

00:37:21.680 She's got the kids. And I said, so you guys will have this individual time, but you also have

00:37:26.100 togetherness. He literally thanks me every other week for that. Every Saturday, he'll text me. He

00:37:33.040 goes, this is awesome. I get a chance to be with the kids without her. It's just me and them.

00:37:37.300 And he's like, she's excited because she gets to sleep in and finally rest up. You know,

00:37:42.020 so it's just one of those things where I knew based on what I had done wrong. Right. And so

00:37:47.520 learning from that and being able to share that idea with others just gives us a chance to grow.

00:37:53.340 I remember I had a, a friend, his name is Travis, and we were growing our financial planning practices

00:37:59.380 together and we were partnering on some things and he had his own business and I had my own business.

00:38:03.620 And one day he came to me and I can't remember how he got talking about it, but he would get home

00:38:07.780 from work. We were talking about the same subject and being present with our family. He'd come

00:38:11.880 home from work and he would park his car. He would get out of his car and he would literally go to

00:38:17.800 this tree in his front yard and he would hang on this tree. He would just grab a limb and he would

00:38:23.300 just hang for as long as he could. He said it was usually like 30 seconds to a minute and he would

00:38:27.300 just hang there. And I'm like, what, why? And he's like, because to me it signified hanging my,

00:38:33.620 my troubles at the door. And so I just, I hung the business at the door and I hung for a minute

00:38:39.800 and then I walked in and all of that stuff was left out of the tree. And then when he would come

00:38:45.020 out in the morning, he would go hang and he would put it all on and he would go to work and he would

00:38:51.060 do that. And it seems silly. You know, if you're hearing that, it seems silly, but it worked for

00:38:55.620 him and it's very powerful. You know, he established a routine that allowed him to be able to shift,

00:39:01.220 right? Shift out of work mode into home mode or to shift from home mode to work mode.

00:39:06.900 And that's, that limb there, uh, it became symbolic for him. And I think we can all do

00:39:12.680 some things similar to that. Uh, whether it's sitting still, whether it's a mindset, whether

00:39:17.340 it's you telling yourself, you know, I mean, I think again, it goes back to structure and again,

00:39:22.820 having a plan, right? You know, that's the phrase you either have a plan or the plan will have you

00:39:27.620 like other, someone else's plan will have you. So I love that story.

00:39:32.300 I think we get wrapped up a lot of the times in what we're supposed to do. So I take that story

00:39:38.220 of your friend who's taken a couple of mornings a week and spending time with his family. And,

00:39:42.960 and I think a lot of the times we're so wrapped up into what we're quote unquote supposed to do.

00:39:47.300 Like the man goes in at seven o'clock and he works from seven to five or six o'clock. And then he comes

00:39:53.460 home and he has dinner and he pats his kid on the head and he puts him to bed and then he does it all

00:39:56.800 over again. And so we've constrained ourselves to these, to these like supposed way of doing things

00:40:03.800 that we don't allow ourselves the freedom and flexibility to do things differently that might

00:40:08.040 create a dynamic in a, in a situation that would be more advantageous for us and our families.

00:40:12.620 No, you're absolutely right. I think it's that being open, right? And, and also, you know what,

00:40:18.000 don't, don't hesitate to ask for help. I know anxiety is high these days. Uh, I know a lot of people

00:40:24.260 are stressed out, frustrated, irritated. Um, so I want to encourage people out there. If you need

00:40:29.700 some help, if you need somebody to talk to find someone, find someone to open up with, um, whatever

00:40:36.400 it is you're struggling with, you're not the only one. Um, and I think in our Western society, we have

00:40:41.820 this mindset of pull yourself up by the bootstraps, grin and bear it and get through it. You know what?

00:40:46.640 Some stuff's not that easy. And, uh, I, I'd much rather people reach out, get some guidance,

00:40:51.900 get some support that you need for the sake of yourself, as well as your family.

00:40:55.480 How do you, uh, how do you recommend somebody find, you know, you say find somebody and that's

00:41:00.540 not to diminish what you're saying, but that's a very simplified, easy way to say it. Like,

00:41:04.660 how do you actually do that?

00:41:06.240 I, I, I have asked people that I trust, uh, and gotten some great names. Like I work with coaches,

00:41:12.340 I've got counselors, therapists that I talk with. Uh, I think so starting in your own circle of

00:41:17.120 influence or if that Google, you know, Google is a beautiful thing. Just get on there and start

00:41:22.980 calling people and talking with them or read up on their bios, uh, read on the website, who,

00:41:27.900 what kind of people are they working with and what do they specialize in? And so I'd say start with

00:41:32.100 friends, uh, in that circle of network. And then from there, just go research, just reach out.

00:41:38.840 It's interesting. Cause one of the things that a lot of guys, um,

00:41:42.340 ask me about is mentorship. And mentorship is, is interesting because I think what most men are

00:41:47.660 looking for when they ask me that question is some sort of formalized contractual arrangement.

00:41:54.700 Right. And that's valuable. I'm not saying that's not valuable. It is,

00:41:58.160 but I think there's a lot of mentorship that just comes from having a conversation with a friend at

00:42:03.260 work or reaching out to your dad or your father-in-law and saying, Hey, you know, this is

00:42:09.000 what I'm struggling with. Like, did you deal with this? And I know if I called my father-in-law and

00:42:12.780 I said, Hey, this is what I'm dealing with. He'd be like, Oh yeah. 20 years ago. Yeah. Me and your

00:42:16.720 mother-in-law were doing the same thing. And here's what I did. Yeah. So there's a lot of

00:42:20.320 situational, situational mentorship, you know, where you're just reaching out and getting some

00:42:24.820 guidance on a question. You know, it doesn't have to have some structure to it that you're meeting

00:42:29.200 every third Wednesday of the second month of the fourth year. You know, I mean, no, no,

00:42:33.600 but just reaching out and again, communicating with people that, that may have some experience

00:42:38.800 that you can borrow from, I think is valuable. Yeah. I want to pivot and shift gears. I'm going

00:42:44.280 to go back to what you were talking about with the controllables. I think the fifth thing you said was

00:42:47.900 actions. So as people think about their new year's resolutions, obviously we're, we're big on that

00:42:54.600 right now. We've got what, two or three weeks before the new year men are thinking, okay, well,

00:43:00.000 what specifically am I going to do? So from the context of finances, what would you say are some

00:43:08.060 actionable steps that men can take to get them off on the right track as we move into 2021?

00:43:15.000 Well, some actionable steps they could take would be to sit down and really begin to number one,

00:43:19.800 have a dream day. If they're married, have a dream date with your spouse, begin to think about

00:43:24.280 and talk about together what it is you want to do, find out what she wants to do. Um, and,

00:43:30.000 and what's the dream you have for your kids? If you have them, you know, are you paying for college?

00:43:35.020 Are you wanting to buy their first home or whatever it is? Just your dreams get connected

00:43:39.500 there. The next step is, can I stop you right there, Chris, on that one. So is that something

00:43:44.920 that you would do like in an evening when the kids go to bed? Or is that something where it's like,

00:43:50.100 Hey, we're going to take a staycation. We're going to go get a hotel in the neighboring town or city

00:43:54.140 for a couple of nights. Like what does that actually look like? I think you kids would be just to be a

00:43:58.340 matter of the kids going to bed. Like to me, I know this, this dream connection, it's going to

00:44:04.160 start with a conversation, but it's going to grow into this, this, this, a series. Like people are

00:44:09.760 going to need time to really think and process, and they're going to really tap in because our

00:44:13.720 dreams are so buried down deep in there that it can be harder to connect with them. So I hope it's

00:44:19.640 an ongoing conversation that continues to get more details and structure to it as you go.

00:44:23.620 Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. I know in the past, um, my wife and I have taken some time

00:44:30.660 prior to the new year where I've taken one piece of paper and I've said, okay, these are the things

00:44:35.480 that I want to accomplish. And these are things I want to do. And she's done the same. And then we

00:44:39.540 will actually go away for a couple of days. We'll get a sitter. We'll drop the kids off for the folks.

00:44:44.080 That's great. And, and man, it's just, it's an amazing, we've gotten away from it where we've moved

00:44:49.440 and things like that, but that's something that I need to incorporate. But I, again, I think this

00:44:52.980 comes back to the formalized mentorship thing. We think that it needs to be like this elaborate

00:44:58.480 process. And if it's not, then we don't do it because that's right. I think it's, it's interesting

00:45:03.940 because a lot of people think that if it's simple, it's not effective, right? If it's easy, as simple,

00:45:07.820 it's not effective. I agree. And, and unfortunately you're right. A lot of people have that mindset.

00:45:12.500 And so it just boils down to, Hey, all I know is we live in the greatest country on the planet,

00:45:17.900 right? I'm biased. It's the only country I've ever lived in. Uh, but I don't need a permission slip

00:45:22.560 to try to get better. Uh, no one has to sign that for me like they did in an elementary school to

00:45:27.840 take the field trip. I know it's something I get to sign as an adult. And so I get to decide and try

00:45:34.360 all within the same breath if I'm serious about it. So I would encourage people out there to really

00:45:39.900 give some thought to what are you serious about? And then from there, why, what are you serious about

00:45:45.420 accomplishing and why? Okay. Then the next step is, and this is the one that, that, that, that is the

00:45:51.000 game changer. Okay. Here's two more. So think about what it is you want and why, but then who stands to

00:45:57.600 benefit? Like who stands to benefit? Like, for example, people will tell me, Chris, I want to get,

00:46:02.860 I want to get, you know, more financially on, on, on a plan. Okay, great. So, all right. So that's,

00:46:08.400 well, why? Well, for the sake of my family overall, or for the sake of the kids. Okay. I'll say,

00:46:14.140 all right, that's good. And then the final phase is this, what are you willing to sacrifice?

00:46:19.820 Like, what are you willing to sacrifice to get it? And I give people the example of me working

00:46:24.340 on my two books, retire inspired and everyday millionaires. If that was what I walked through

00:46:28.880 that process of wanting to do, what I had to sacrifice was time with friends. Uh, I had to

00:46:34.580 sacrifice TV. I had to sacrifice a lot of fun things for the sake of getting this project done.

00:46:39.740 And so I think walking through that lens will help people set goals in a whole nother way.

00:46:46.820 Yeah. I think a lot of the times we don't have realistic expectations of what success will take.

00:46:52.220 I agree. I completely agree with you. And I don't, why is that?

00:46:55.920 I think it's just, uh, a hope that things will be easy. I don't know. I don't know. That's,

00:47:05.400 that's what I would go towards. Well, I think if it's not easy, we tend to first sign of any kind

00:47:10.380 of reluctance or resistance. If you're not serious about it, you're going to stop. Yeah. Right. You

00:47:15.920 know, like you're just will, you'll go, Oh, well, you know, wouldn't it be or X, Y, and Z. But when

00:47:21.100 you're serious about something or people are dedicated to it, they go, Oh no, no, I'm gonna

00:47:26.360 go over under or through this thing, but I'm getting to that destination. And that to me is

00:47:31.320 the mindset of people being connected to something they truly want or something that really matters

00:47:35.940 to them. So I'd say this, don't lie to yourself anymore. Setting goals, please don't put down 42

00:47:41.740 goals. And it's just because it's a routine that you're used to doing this, this ritual that you've

00:47:47.580 committed to. No, I would love for you to put down three to five that you are serious about

00:47:52.780 making happen. Following through that lens that I was talking about, the why and who stands to

00:47:57.680 benefit and what are you willing to give up and really looking at this thing and going, no, I'm

00:48:01.920 serious about this in the first quarter. What are three to five things you're serious about

00:48:06.100 accomplishing? We're not going to go the whole year because people, they, they, they get too big.

00:48:10.220 Let's go quarterly. Let's walk it down. And then from there, what do you need to do over the next

00:48:14.600 course of the months to keep you on track? I like that. I, I, I frame a lot of things

00:48:20.180 through the lens of sports because that's, you know, my background. And that was a big part of

00:48:23.720 my development as a man. And, and I remember, you know, before the football season or before a game,

00:48:29.240 we would spend two to three to four days, at least one night a week where our coach would secure game

00:48:34.460 film from the other team. And we would sit together as a team and we watched the game film. We'd watch

00:48:39.700 tendencies. We'd watch strengths and we'd watch weaknesses and we would try to exploit and take

00:48:44.060 advantage of those things. And, and I don't think that, I think everybody that's listening

00:48:49.140 understands that concept, but I don't think we apply that in our life outside of sports where

00:48:54.620 we're being realistic. Hey, these guys are pretty good at that. We, we ought to be prepared or,

00:49:01.100 you know, there's some vulnerabilities here that we can exploit. Let's take advantage of that. And I

00:49:05.540 think that takes us being realistic about in, in our lives about our own strengths and weaknesses

00:49:12.900 and playing to those strengths and avoiding those weaknesses. But that takes the study that takes

00:49:19.360 watching the game film, that takes the reflection that you're talking about right now.

00:49:22.940 It really does. And again, that self-awareness and then the willingness to be able to ask for help

00:49:28.300 for those areas where you're not strong or to be able to ask for help in the areas that you are

00:49:33.880 strong so you can get stronger. And so, you know, it's all a matter of just choices. Like we can choose

00:49:39.640 to get better or try to choose to stay the same. And one of my football coaches used to tell me all

00:49:44.360 the time, he said, you know, you're, you know, nothing's the same. You're either getting better

00:49:49.920 or you're getting worse. Right. And so people oftentimes have tried to tell me, Hey, I'm just

00:49:54.260 trying to keep things the same. And I'm thinking it doesn't do that. Like, why, if you're going to

00:49:58.280 give the effort, give the effort to get better. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. So, okay. So let's say

00:50:04.480 somebody has gone through this process. They've got a pretty good idea of where they want to go.

00:50:07.900 They're improving themselves. They're on pace. I think sometimes we're going to, not sometimes

00:50:12.160 we're always having a tendency of falling into ruts and patterns specifically with money. Some of the

00:50:17.720 patterns I think is, uh, exorbitant spending. I think spending is a habit that needs to be broken.

00:50:23.100 Uh, I call it consumerism. Uh, I think getting in debt, you know, I, I know a lot of people,

00:50:28.560 for example, whether, whether they, they will service debt, you know, let's say it's a $500 car payment

00:50:33.860 and then they pay off the car payment. They're like, Oh, cool. I have $500. And they'll go out and buy

00:50:37.580 the four wheeler or the snowmobile. Yeah. You know, so that's a habit that needs to be broken

00:50:41.680 because that's a pattern. That's right. How do you maintain your course of action well beyond and

00:50:48.780 long beyond you being motivated or having these types of conversations with your spouse, that sort

00:50:53.380 of thing? I think it boils down to systems, meaning understanding what are we, I've got a system of

00:50:59.880 working that's helped me get to goals, right? Whether it's writing books, producing video videos,

00:51:05.480 whatever it is, I've got a system. So I want to make sure that I've got a system and how I'm

00:51:09.660 handling money. And so, uh, you know, I want to look at this and I I'm, I'm slower for larger ticket

00:51:16.500 items. I'm extremely slow to pull the trigger on. Right. Um, and so what I mean by that are things

00:51:22.220 that are five grand and up, like I, I need to study and research and do all the stuff. So I know me now

00:51:27.880 things that are $400 and below I'll pull the trigger on in a heartbeat. And so now what I have to do

00:51:34.280 is, is put a system in place, meaning how do I move faster on the things that I know that I want?

00:51:39.680 And then how do I slow down on these other things that I might not even second guess? Right. And so

00:51:45.040 knowing myself and going, all right, if it's this, I'm going to wait X amount of days because I don't

00:51:50.760 want to have buyer's remorse, right? That's where you buy something and you go, boy, I didn't need that.

00:51:55.020 What in the world was I doing? And so I want to really understand the, the, the psychology behind it.

00:52:00.660 Am I looking to buy because I'm bored? Am I looking to buy because I'm sad, lonely, uh, celebratory,

00:52:08.580 whatever it is, we're all different spenders. I tend to be a celebratory spender. So if something

00:52:14.040 goes great, I like to celebrate by doing something right. I want to do something. I want to commemorate

00:52:19.780 it. Well, I know that about myself now, instead of it being a $400 item, it might be a $5 item or a

00:52:25.780 $10 item. So I think the self-awareness allows us to put controls in place to help us in our overall

00:52:31.980 systems. Good point. Um, I'm not a, I'm, I've never thought about in this context, but as you're

00:52:37.940 saying this, I'm thinking about myself, I'm not a celebratory spender. I'm a bored spender.

00:52:43.700 I'm also a bored consumer of food. So if I'm bored, I'll just eat all the chips and salsa and all the

00:52:48.900 ice cream. So for me, the answer is like, stop being bored. Go do something, go work out, go move,

00:52:54.940 go do Legos, go play with your kid, whatever, whatever your thing, just something. And then

00:52:58.720 all of a sudden I'm not hungry anymore, or I'm not, I don't have a desire to spend.

00:53:02.420 See, but you know, you, and so what you did was, is you went through this and you went,

00:53:06.840 wait a minute, right? Spending time, self-reflection is big, but then we got to do something about it.

00:53:11.620 Like you said, don't be bored. And for me, it's like, yeah, I can celebrate without spending.

00:53:16.040 And so it's just self-awareness that allows us to really see this and go, all right,

00:53:20.540 I'm ready to get better, right? I'm, I'm, I'm done with this. This is going to change. And this

00:53:25.340 is what I'm going to do. And it always helps to get some people around you, some accountability

00:53:29.080 partners that check in with you. Cause if they're good, they're going to check in and, you know,

00:53:34.780 you don't want to get that text or that phone call and have to say, well, you know, I did X, Y, Z.

00:53:39.160 So you want to get somebody that can, that you trust that you can be real with,

00:53:43.020 uh, and that will be thorough in their follow-up on you.

00:53:47.020 I've also found, and I need to put this out there is that sometimes we give permission to hold people

00:53:51.440 for people to hold us accountable. And then we treat them like garbage.

00:53:56.800 Yeah. Yeah. And, and so you've said, Hey, Chris, you can, you can hold me accountable. And then you

00:54:02.460 hold me accountable. And I, and I, and I blow up at you. It's like, how likely are you going to

00:54:06.380 hold me accountable in the future?

00:54:07.800 That's exactly right. I have fired some accountability partners, uh, you know, and

00:54:12.520 it's, it's this fine line, uh, as I tell people, listen, at the end of the day, the decision's up

00:54:17.120 to you. Um, I can call and check in and I can text the check in. You could decide to tell me

00:54:22.240 whatever you want to tell me, but I care enough about you to follow up. And so, you know, that's

00:54:27.500 the deal. I think that again, finding that internal motivation is going to be much more important

00:54:32.640 than some way of externally trying to motivate people. Yeah. Uh, now when I ask this question,

00:54:38.600 I'm not asking for investment advice, because I know you can't give specific investment advice

00:54:42.960 because you don't know people's situations, but are there, um, are there opportunities?

00:54:48.280 Are there trends? Are there patterns? Are there things that we should be looking for when it comes

00:54:53.700 to paying off debt and building wealth as we roll into 2021?

00:54:58.580 Well, I'm going to tell you, I've been consistent when it comes to investing. I'm

00:55:02.620 one of these guys, I'm a buy and hold. Uh, I love growth site, mutual funds, um, and, and

00:55:07.920 being able to be intentional over the long haul. Uh, as far as that goes, anytime you can get

00:55:13.360 that out of your life, to me, you're giving yourself a raise. Uh, I am not into leverage

00:55:18.120 debt schemes, uh, where you borrow from your house to invest and all of this. Uh, I know

00:55:23.400 interest that you pay as a penalty, um, for a penalty for using someone else's money. So I

00:55:28.360 want people to continue to work themselves to get out of debt. Uh, we use what's called

00:55:32.480 the debt snowball. So it's the smallest to biggest approach has nothing to do with interest rate,

00:55:37.220 just paying minimum payments on everything, but the small one throwing all extra money

00:55:40.720 at it and moving down the line. So on and so forth. Uh, I think we've got to be prepared.

00:55:45.320 Uh, Ryan, I think we're going to have more debt type schemes marketed to us in 2021 that are

00:55:52.640 looking to prey on the emotion of the COVID situation that are looking to prey on the board

00:55:58.460 spender, uh, the celebratory spender, the emotional spender. I think, uh, they're going

00:56:03.700 to be more creative marketing plans centered around that. So we need not only to have a

00:56:08.660 plan, but we need to have our guard up also. And so it's that process of playing offense

00:56:13.360 and defense to go with your sport analogy. Cause I really relate with that as well. It's

00:56:18.060 really important to have both in place. What's your take on good debt versus bad debt?

00:56:24.740 Well, I mean, at the end of the day, the only tolerable debt in my mind is a mortgage,

00:56:28.720 a 15 year fixed rate mortgage, uh, everything else in my mind, it's charging me an interest rate.

00:56:34.500 So it's charging me a penalty. Um, I don't, I don't, I don't believe it. I don't try to code it good or

00:56:39.620 bad. I can tolerate a 15 year fixed rate mortgage. I want you to attack that thing and get out of your

00:56:43.840 life, but anything moving forward, do it with cash. It doesn't bring risk. Like if you do

00:56:49.740 something with cash, some buddy of mine wants to buy a rental home and he's got the cash, but he's

00:56:53.980 like, Chris, I don't want to spend it. I can just go get a mortgage. And I go, you've got the money

00:56:58.960 you've set aside for this. I said, so what that tells me, if you don't want to spend the cash,

00:57:04.220 you don't really want that property. You like the idea of the cash more than the property. I said,

00:57:10.200 you're trying to talk yourself into buying that rental property. If you've got the cash, buddy,

00:57:14.820 if you will, if I said, if I'm in your shoes, I'm stroking a check or I'm not doing anything at all.

00:57:20.540 But once you know, you get out of debt, don't ever go backwards. What would you say? So you say

00:57:25.620 there's no risk, but what would you say about, for example, solvency risk? Well, and that's where

00:57:30.900 having the emergency fund is crucial. Um, and so I tell people three to six months in your emergency

00:57:36.620 fund. Uh, and if you know, that's, that's the, the, the case, uh, but looking at this and going,

00:57:42.260 yeah, it's six months. I mean, you're going to tell me you've got a career or a job, you know,

00:57:46.480 you can find money within six months. You can get a job. It might not be the job,

00:57:51.460 but you want to have something that's a cushion between it. And so some people, again, you know,

00:57:56.580 and having $200,000 just sitting in the bank account for me, that money is just sitting,

00:58:01.800 you know, I got, he, he likes cash at home too. I go, but that money's in a hammock. Let's put it

00:58:06.560 to work. Get it invested to grow for you. Right. I mean, what's it, and let's be real though,

00:58:11.420 you know, $200,000. What's, what's the likelihood that you're going to have some sort of catastrophic

00:58:16.680 event where you need, look, could you need 20? Sure. Yes, absolutely. You need to buy a new vehicle

00:58:22.160 or something. Right. Right. 200,000, probably not going to need $200,000. That's right. So I told

00:58:26.660 he was coming up with, and it's, that's the amount he agreed. He goes, yeah, I'm going to keep that in

00:58:31.140 cash at my house. And he goes, this other dollar amount, his emergency fund. He's, I said,

00:58:35.220 just put that in a money market account. Just let it sit there and be liquid. It's not an

00:58:38.980 investment. It's insurance. I said, but this other chunk of money needs to be doing something for you.

00:58:44.140 Like, let's put that money to work. What's your take? This is a hot issue right now. Um,

00:58:49.460 just with presidential election and different ideologies on how we view this, but what's your

00:58:54.160 take on incurring student loan debt in order to secure a higher education? Yeah, this, you know what,

00:59:00.880 Ryan, I have seen the result of people having the student loan debt. And as we sit at this 1.7 trillion

00:59:09.100 dollar issue with student loan debt, I think the model is jacked up. I think the higher education

00:59:15.720 is a good thing. I've got a few degrees myself, but the process by which we've had people go about it

00:59:21.640 in this normalized way has straddled them with more debt than they ever imagined. Uh, on average,

00:59:27.980 an average person has $37,000 in student loan debt. So we've got young people walking into financial

00:59:34.680 aid offices, signing documents they don't understand for payments they can't afford.

00:59:40.320 It's the model is broken. And so I think the, the way around this, uh, is for us to educate young

00:59:46.880 people to help them understand there's a way for them to achieve higher education without all the

00:59:52.160 threat of the debt. So that's utilizing community colleges. Um, I mean, we've got kids that are

00:59:58.620 paying for four year private universities that are taking classes online right now. Right. Right. So

01:00:05.000 I'm going, you, you're paying five grand a class to do it online. You could knock that out at a

01:00:11.000 community college for $400. So I think we've just got to educate young people. Uh, one of my,

01:00:16.480 my, my good friends here, Anthony O'Neill has a book called debt-free degree, which shows young

01:00:21.880 people how they can go to school debt-free. Uh, I'll make sure I send you a copy of that. Um,

01:00:26.680 but we just have to educate these young people or not so young people as I'm hearing from people that

01:00:32.340 want to pursue a master's degree. Right. I'm like, okay, well, what's that going to, what's it going

01:00:37.220 to bring you? Like, what's that, what's it providing? Is it a step in your career? Is it an income

01:00:42.140 jump? You know, you don't want to do it just to do it. It needs to be leading towards something.

01:00:47.620 Yeah. I think there's a lot of people who have never done this quote unquote cost benefit analysis.

01:00:52.120 Yes. Yes. They're just told, Hey, you just go to, that's what you do. You just go to college.

01:00:56.040 Okay. And unfortunately it's treated like the, yeah, it's treated like the 13th, 14th, 15th,

01:01:01.300 and 16th year of high school. Right. Like, you know, you don't, you don't want to just go do it

01:01:05.540 because it's the logical next thing to do. You want to do it. Does it lead you somewhere? And I'm telling

01:01:10.080 you, we're having more trades become areas of more of prominence. Those are growing,

01:01:16.540 but become a welder, an electrician, a plumber. And so I think young people, we need to help them

01:01:22.260 understand the economics. And again, you got some older people, adults that don't understand that

01:01:27.900 choice in the course of debt. So let's not, you know, and you know, what gets me most upset is

01:01:32.820 that I'm hearing about a lot of grandparents that are signing on for these parent plus loans

01:01:37.860 and co-signing for college. And if these young people default on that debt, they're now putting

01:01:43.580 their grandparents' social security at risk because now they can come in and pull from it.

01:01:48.140 So it's heartbreaking all the way around. I hope we're able to educate more young people to make

01:01:52.720 better decisions. I'd much rather someone go to school at night while working and it take them

01:01:57.680 six years to graduate. But if they graduate without student loan debt, they're starting out ahead

01:02:03.180 of the game. Well, and not only that, they also have four to six years of applicable experience

01:02:09.220 towards the profession. No, you're absolutely right. So I think it's an area we continue to

01:02:14.280 address here and just helping to try to educate people as much as possible. Yeah, man, there's so

01:02:19.940 much to talk about. I don't want to take up all of your day because we certainly could. Man, you've

01:02:24.420 just got so much great information. You've got thousands and thousands of hours of conversations

01:02:28.600 like this. You've got multiple books. Of course, I want to direct the guys over to that. But I do

01:02:34.140 want to be respectful of your time and just let you know, man, I really appreciate your energy and your

01:02:38.140 enthusiasm. And it's infectious. You know, we're talking about dollars and money and like, look,

01:02:46.320 I'm going to be really frank with you. I got a little burned out on the financial planning process.

01:02:49.980 I found value in it. I knew what I was doing was important, but I was like, I just, I just,

01:02:56.220 I don't want to do this anymore. And to see somebody like you who is just a passionate

01:03:00.820 about finances as I am about what I'm doing is very cool to see. I love it. It's fun, man. Well,

01:03:07.100 I listen, I appreciate your energy, your spirit. It's always good to be on with you. And I look

01:03:12.180 forward to having another conversation soon. We will let the guys know where to connect with you.

01:03:17.340 Obviously you've got events are kind of on the back burner, but you've got a lot of content and I

01:03:21.660 want to direct the guys to the right places. Sure. Sure. Well, listen, they can learn more about me

01:03:25.480 and both books retire inspired and everyday millionaires go on my website, Chris Hogan,

01:03:29.980 360.com that's Chris Hogan, 360.com. And you can learn more about it. But we also,

01:03:35.860 for the people that are serious about making 2021 the best financial year ever, we've got something

01:03:42.000 cool going on with Ramsey plus, uh, it's our all access kind of membership where we've got a two week

01:03:47.660 free trial going on where you get an opportunity to come in and not only get the information to change

01:03:52.900 your life financially, to get the tools, to be able to track it. But there's also videos taught

01:03:57.560 by Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, and myself. So you could sit down with your spouse or accountability

01:04:02.900 partner and watch this information as well as join community. So you can learn more about this by going

01:04:08.520 to Dave Ramsey.com slash Ramsey plus. Again, that's Dave Ramsey.com slash Ramsey plus two week free trial,

01:04:15.680 get in there and sign up and tell them Hogan sent you. Awesome. We'll sync it up. I know total money

01:04:20.460 makeover obviously was a huge success. And so to see you guys create, cause, cause our model is built

01:04:26.940 on a membership program. It's called the iron council. And so, uh, it's very, very valuable for the guys.

01:04:33.140 There is tremendous value in being part of a community and having the membership and having

01:04:38.880 the ongoing consultation. That's right. What you guys are doing is incredible. I love it. I love it.

01:04:44.000 Well, Ryan, thank you so much for having me, buddy. I wish you well and have a fantastic Christmas.

01:04:48.640 Thanks, Chris. You too. Take care. Gentlemen, there you go. My conversation with Chris Hogan.

01:04:54.900 It is my hope and his as well that you enjoyed that conversation. But as I said earlier,

01:04:58.920 more importantly than just enjoying it, I want you to apply it. I want you to take what he's taught,

01:05:05.200 read his books, uh, access his show, his website, apply that stuff, improve your life, get out of

01:05:10.620 debt, invest, save money, do all the things you know you should be doing, but don't really quite

01:05:14.840 have a roadmap. He can help give you that roadmap. So if you would connect with me and Chris on the,

01:05:20.820 uh, on the socials, uh, Instagram is probably best for both of us. Let us know what you thought

01:05:25.120 about the conversation. Do me a favor to just take a screenshot. A lot of you guys are screenshotting

01:05:29.500 as you're listening, which I really appreciate. So take a screenshot, share it on Instagram,

01:05:34.400 Facebook, Twitter, wherever you're doing it. It goes a long way in promoting what we're doing here.

01:05:39.060 And I've got big, big plans to blow this thing up in 2021, including some absolutely phenomenal guests

01:05:45.360 that we're going to be having on over the next two to six weeks. So stay tuned, subscribe,

01:05:51.860 share, do all the things you're already doing. All right, guys, and get out for it.

01:05:54.980 More importantly is just get after it. Make yourselves men show up for your families,

01:05:59.100 your businesses, your communities. That's what this is all about. And let me know how it's going

01:06:02.140 for you. All right, guys, we'll be back tomorrow for my ask me anything with Mr. Kip Sorensen.

01:06:07.160 But until then go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

01:06:11.680 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

01:06:16.060 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

01:06:24.980 Thank you.

01:06:26.980 Thank you.

01:06:27.980 Thank you.

Order of Man - January 05, 2021

CHRIS HOGAN ｜ Money Tips, Tricks, and Tactics for 2021

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