Former Navy SEAL and New York Times bestselling author Clint Emerson joins host Ryan Michler to discuss the recent assassination attempt on President Donald Trump, the dangers of diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives, and the role of men in society.
00:05:53.580My company, Escape the Wolf, got contacted by some of my Secret Service folks and Trump wanted to extend Secret Service to a bunch of his family and friends,
00:06:07.060which, as we all know, that's not their mission.
00:06:10.020And so, the Secret Service said, hey, there's several people that need some, you know, more discreet protection for the entire weekend.
00:06:22.600And so, we ended up providing, you know, obviously drivers and then, you know, close-end personal security for these folks.
00:06:30.100And so, I had the awesome and rare opportunity to go to an inauguration.
00:06:35.940I think every American should go to one at least once in their life.
00:06:39.660It is pretty cool to see the transition of power in person.
00:06:45.160And then all the events, you know, the ball and everything else that comes with it is pretty damn cool.
00:06:51.840But security is pretty much what I do on the physical side.
00:06:57.000And then also within policies and all the other boring stuff.
00:07:02.420But I'll stop there and we can dig in.
00:07:05.720You know, it's interesting as you see a lot of the commentary from people who are both intelligent and a lot of people who are just ignorant.
00:07:12.280I would put myself in the latter category.
00:07:14.420I'm ignorant about a lot of this stuff.
00:07:16.500I do have some very, very minimal experience with the military and working in the government.
00:07:21.780But there's a lot of people just completely throwing Secret Service under the bus over the past weekend.
00:07:28.340And I think there's a lot of things to be critical of.
00:07:31.140But also I think what a lot of people are missing is the bureaucracy and the red tape that goes along with, you know, rules of engagement, for example.
00:07:39.800One rule of engagement I saw, for example, and whether this is true or not, I can definitely see this being the case.
00:07:45.960Is that the Secret Service was not permitted or authorized to take a shot until that was authorized by somebody else who may or may not have even been there or in the situation itself.
00:08:01.100And so there's obviously going to be a delay and a lag of time between the time the shooter was identified and the time that he was that threat was neutralized.
00:08:14.900So looking at layers of security, right, when you talk just generally about an open air venue like that, the Secret Service rolls in.
00:08:26.380They are responsible for the ADVAN, right, or that advance piece.
00:08:31.760And it is their job to then look at the venue and say, and through a reporting system, hey, these are all the things that need to happen in order to make this as secure as possible.
00:08:43.440And keep in mind, it is literally almost impossible to, like, 100% secure an open air venue like that.
00:08:53.220But obviously, somebody did not do their homework upon the assessment.
00:08:59.520And if they did put it in the report that, hey, all rooftops need to have at least one armed person on top or, hey, we need to channelize the crowds into here, here, and here.
00:09:11.560We need to block off a much greater fence line or perimeter with barricades, right?
00:09:16.780All of this would be put into a report, and then the next part of the security layer is local law enforcement, you know, contracted security, the type of people you see that wear windbreakers that say security on the back and they're paid seven bucks an hour.
00:09:31.880So there's layers to the security that then get implemented based on the Secret Service assessment.
00:09:41.520So if the assessment said something that didn't happen, then that's, you know, unfortunately, it still probably rides on Secret Service.
00:09:52.120Because if you're going to do the assessment, then it should be on the assessors to then make sure that local law enforcement, contracted security, and whoever else are actually doing what's required.
00:10:25.380Local law enforcement may not have done the job necessary, but also you're responsible for ensuring that the former president is protected.
00:10:53.500That would be really bad if they did an advance and they didn't cover down on those rooftops that were literally a couple of hundred yards away or less.
00:12:11.220So, but they had to ensure that it was safe before they pulled their bodies off the president, then lifted the president, and then moved the president.
00:12:19.860I would say the movement looked a little hokey, unfortunately.
00:12:27.140Yeah, and keep in mind, it's hard for us, like, armchair quarterback, and, like, that's a lot of stress, and that's a lot of shit going on.
00:12:35.020And, you know, and I'm sure, like I said, all the comms coming into their ears is going to make them move, stop, stop, move, wait.
00:12:43.460We need to make sure this one, you know, we can't assume what's going on in their earpieces.
00:12:47.200But I have to assume that was part of making them look clunky.
00:12:51.800And then getting to the vehicle, getting them inside and getting out of there, you know, I think we saw some of the female piece that was very damning, right?
00:13:06.180That one lady pulling her gun, then was, like, trying to find her holster, couldn't find her holster, so she just went back to, let me just, you know, let me just sweep everybody.
00:13:17.660And, you know, guns pointed everywhere.
00:13:23.640Yeah, I just, once again, I hate to armchair quarterback the damn thing.
00:13:27.760Because we don't know what's going on in their earpieces that made things go the way they did, but it certainly didn't look good, you know, from the assessment to the execution of the layers of protection, you know, to the actual movement of Trump, you know, just looked a little hokey, I think, you know, it's unfortunate.
00:13:51.960Yeah, and I think, you know, you've said armchair quarterback a couple of times here.
00:13:56.820I think the difference is that you are more credible to speak on these issues than I am, for example.
00:14:06.300I've never had to worry about any of these things.
00:14:08.640I can look back and say, hey, look, this wasn't right, and I can come up with all these conspiracy theories.
00:14:14.120The difference between you and I is you actually have experience, real-world experience, where you've done things like this.
00:14:20.480And so, yeah, you can armchair quarterback, but also there's some weight to it, which causes us to look at things differently.
00:14:26.820It is pretty wild, and I want to get into the female piece of it because there's a huge conversation regarding not just with this particular incident, but generally this DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion piece.
00:14:39.800And when you look at the images of a woman who's literally two-thirds the size of President Trump, it's even that alone.
00:14:50.440Or the woman who's fumbling around with her firearm trying to figure out what to do.
00:14:54.380Or there's another image of a woman back behind Trump, kind of looks crouched over.
00:15:00.540I mean, we're taking a snapshot in time.
00:15:02.200It doesn't illustrate the entire picture.
00:15:11.740Like I've always said, if you, I mean, you need pipe hitters that can flip the switch to violence in a heartbeat, and they do it from a thinking shooter's point of view.
00:15:22.820Meaning they're not, they're pulling guns and they're doing what they need to do, but they're also smart enough and experienced enough not to do something stupid in those moments, right?
00:15:31.480And, you know, pipe hitters tend to be males, not females, and that's what you need around your president.
00:15:39.860It's important to note, too, the Secret Service is not an offensive unit.
00:15:45.220I mean, everything they do is defensive, and that's just how it is in the PSD world, right?
00:15:52.420You wait for something to happen, and then you respond as quickly and as methodically as possible based on your protocols.
00:15:58.760And so at the end of the day, they are always at the disadvantage, and it's on them plus technology, and then they have this whole department called glass and steel, right?
00:16:13.400Their glass and steel folks are the ones for putting up, you know, bulletproof glass on a podium, for example.
00:16:20.100Steel would be the vehicles, and then they've got a lot of other tools in their arsenal that they can bring to bear.
00:16:26.860But the candidates don't typically get that.
00:16:29.840That's usually reserved for the president.
00:16:32.560So I think there's a lot of – I think they're going to end up, you know, with this investigation.
00:16:39.880And when you go through and assess everything, there's probably going to be some changes.
00:16:45.340And the big piece for me was where were the drones that day?
00:16:49.240The Secret Service drones, the law enforcement drones, the hired security force drone.
00:16:57.380Like, they're not – you know, you and I can buy a drone and check out the area and ensure that there's nothing going on that's, you know, suspicious.
00:17:06.160Or some guy's creeping up to a building and then climbing up the side of it and then crawling across the top of it.
00:17:12.260But all of that, you know, a drone would have detected in a heartbeat.
00:17:16.640But going back to the female leadership and, you know, increasing Secret Service female employment by 30 percent so that we've seen it, I think that's – I mean, I just feel like you need pipe hitters around the leader of the free world.
00:17:33.920I agree. I think too many people tend to believe, and this is a direct result of the feminist movement, that just because a woman can't necessarily do the same job a man can do, that she's inferior.
00:17:48.840And I don't believe that. As far as human worth goes, women bring so much to the table, so much to the equation.
00:17:55.240We need women in society and culture, but we don't need them in these roles.
00:17:59.640That's the reality of it. And I would even suggest, and maybe you disagree with me, we don't need them in combat roles.
00:19:21.320Then you make sure all of those variables are matched by the people and the technology you put around him.
00:19:28.400And I think if you worked it backwards, one, that's not discrimination, right?
00:19:33.260That's just facts that you're adhering to and requirements that you're adhering to.
00:19:37.820And the odds are it's going to be a bunch of linebackers that can carry a 200-pound man to the safety of a vehicle or wherever, whatever the incident is.
00:20:37.260You know, when I have a job that needs to be completed, I'm going to exercise some level of discrimination to find the best person possible.
00:20:47.180Now, I'm not going to discriminate on immutable characteristics like skin color, hair color, sexual orientation, female, male.
00:20:57.900I'm going to discriminate based on, to your point, what is required of the job.
00:21:02.880People have a negative connotation of discrimination and also the word judgment, which is another one, especially in Christian circles.
00:21:08.960We shouldn't judge maybe, but are you telling me you don't get to exercise any discernment because God told you you shouldn't judge other people?
00:21:17.760No, I'm going to treat people differently and I'm going to hire and bring people into my circle based on what I think they're able to accomplish.
00:21:47.280It's like, man, why can't we just go back to the 80s when, you know, when I was a kid and said retard, it didn't, I wasn't making fun of like anybody with mental disorders.
00:21:56.460I just liked the word, hey, that's, that's retarded.
00:21:58.740No different than saying, hey, that's goofy or weird.
00:22:00.980You know, it's, it's, uh, it's amazing that over time we've just become so sensitive when we really don't need to be.
00:22:10.860It just creates more drama and stress for everyone.
00:22:38.960It's, uh, I get like, you know, a part of it is, you know, me working in a corporate arena, right?
00:22:45.520And corporations, um, the HR departments basically rule the organization, um, rightfully so because they want people all to be treated the same, treated equally, make sure it's a good work environment.
00:23:15.600And, and to your point, you know, every, every organization, every company I believe has the right to say, Hey, we're not going to use that language.
00:23:23.820Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant.
00:23:26.000A company can decide, Hey, we're not going to speak that way.
00:23:43.100Anyways, I want to go back to something, um, about this, the shooting and then get into a little bit more meat of what I wanted to address with you today is I was really surprised.
00:23:51.800You talked about this shooter getting within, I think, uh, uh, maybe the New York times or, or one of these big legacy media organizations had suggested that the, the rooftop from which the shooter shot was, was about 130 yards.
00:24:06.800So basically a chip shot to the president.
00:24:08.820And I'm really interested how this individual was able to climb up on a rooftop.
00:24:18.520People saw him well before he took any shots.
00:24:21.880I saw one report and even an image, and I don't know if this is accurate.
00:24:25.020I try to take everything with a grain of salt, that there was a ladder that this individual had brought and set up against the building to climb up onto the rooftop.
00:24:32.040This is, this is, this is unacceptable.
00:24:35.860And it, I can't help, but believe that, that not only is it unacceptable, was this allowable?
00:24:41.800Yeah, it does seem strange considering there were the BBC interview with the witnesses that were standing in that area.
00:24:49.660And they clearly said, there's someone climbing on the building with a rifle over there and supposedly told law enforcement and law enforcement.
00:25:01.340And I think at first didn't do anything, they either didn't believe it or didn't see it for themselves.
00:25:06.640And then I think I saw another report where an officer that actually did see him and engage him, at least verbally, he then, the shooter then turned his gun towards that officer and the officer then crouched down and took cover.
00:25:20.880And then shortly after that, then started taking shots on the, on Trump.
00:25:25.920So, um, you and I, this, this, obviously we're talking about this very fresh, right?
00:25:34.340So, as we both know, the facts will continue to either be confirmed or change, which usually is the case, you know, once investigations occur and everything.
00:25:44.360So, um, but for right now, yeah, it looks like complete lapse in security.
00:25:53.720Uh, they did not follow any protocols that I've ever seen or leveraged, you know, in the big world of perimeter security where you have the four or five Ds, right?
00:26:03.140It's, you know, you want to deny, you want to delay, um, you want to detour, uh, ultimately you want to set everything up so that you can then detain, right?
00:26:13.200And then the last one is, you know, defend or quote unquote death if they're coming through your perimeter in a certain fashion.
00:26:22.380But I mean, even the most basic of following the principles of the four or five big Ds doesn't seem like anybody took any of that into account, uh, as it related to this.
00:26:33.940Um, yeah, I think there's, I mean, a lot of information may still come out that we're not privy to yet because we're talking about it.
00:26:44.400I mean, look, breakdowns happen and I'm not going to jump on the conspiracy theory bandwagon just yet.
00:26:49.520You know, there might come a point where I do, but, uh, I, I, the, the quote I've heard and that I, that I try to live by is never attribute to malice.
00:26:58.820What could be attributed to stupidity or ignorance?
00:27:01.340And my biggest concern is that we have, let's just hypothetically say there was no malice other than the shooter's intentions.
00:27:09.260Uh, there's no conspiracy behind it that we just won't do anything about it.
00:27:14.480The, the, the head of secret service, I don't know her name right off hand.
00:27:27.160You see these, um, congressional hearings, for example, and all these politicians grandstand and they get their TikTok reels and all this bullshit.
00:27:34.240And at the end of the day, like nothing changes.
00:27:37.140And that's the most frustrating thing for me.
00:27:39.320And I think the majority of American citizens.
00:27:42.220Yeah, I think, um, I think you're right all the way until we hit November 2nd, you know, and then January, I think there'll be some accountability then, you know, it's, uh, I don't think, you know, Trump's not the kind of guy that's just going to let this thing go.
00:27:59.380So once he's in there, I think there'll be a full sweep of, uh, you're fired across the board.
00:28:05.960And then, uh, some rapid, rapid improvements, changes, you know, adjustments.
00:28:13.240Well, let's shift gears a little bit here.
00:28:15.140I still want to maintain and stay on this, this vein of, of what happened in Pennsylvania, but I'm actually really interested from your perspective, from the bystanders perspective, you know, you've got hundreds, if not thousands of people in the audience.
00:28:29.380Uh, you've got at least one person killed, I think one or two people injured as a result of this outside of the, uh, former president.
00:28:37.720What is your take on the reaction of the participants?
00:28:42.820Did you see things that you thought, okay, that person handled it well, that's what I would have done.
00:28:47.180Or did you see some general behavior you thought that was handled poorly?
00:28:53.880Yeah, as you know, I'm, you know, my full-time job is providing all the crisis management, which is really on the preparedness prevention side, right?
00:29:02.600Good policy, good workforce education, and good tools that support it so that, you know, if you find yourself in a crisis, you're only in it for the shortest period of time possible.
00:29:12.980And then you can get to post-crisis as quickly as you can, right?
00:29:17.320Um, and with that mantra, open air venues like that, massive people, um, you know, let's face it, these things are scheduled.
00:29:28.640Uh, it's not like any, it's not like an organization where, Hey, before you show up, we're going to provide this training on what to do if shots are fired.
00:29:36.900But mass shootings aren't anything new, um, and people should know at this point, you know, the run, hide, fight mantra and run obviously is a, is your first option if it's available because increasing distance obviously increases survivability.
00:29:56.600Um, hide, meaning take cover or get concealment, you know, um, is the next best thing if you can't run.
00:30:04.060For example, the people sitting behind the president, they're in the, they're in, um, stadium style seating.
00:30:11.140They're kind of, it's, it's, it's almost like being in an elevator, for example, right?
00:30:16.120A contained environment because you can't easily just get off of the bleachers, right?
00:30:20.720Because you're surrounded by a bunch of other people.
00:30:39.880Some people leaned right and leaned left, but very few people disappeared into the bleachers, you know, or you could drop down into, um, the seats, if you will, you know?
00:30:52.060Um, and they continued to just kind of sit there and look around.
00:30:56.260Um, now I think people down in front of the president, it was hard to tell.
00:30:59.540I think some people did physically get up and run, right?
00:31:03.140Um, and others kind of sat, but long story, long answer.
00:31:09.620I'll shorten it up here a little bit is just understand that very simple mantra of run, hide, fight.
00:31:26.760Um, and if you feel like you need to fight, then yeah, by all means fight.
00:31:30.420So if I personally would have seen somebody crawling up the side of a building, uh, and then, you know, getting onto the roof, I think I would have definitely, um, gone over there and yanked that kid right off the wall or joined him on the roof.
00:31:50.480Like I would have personally gone, Hey, I'm going to go fuck this kid up before he does something stupid.
00:31:55.820Yeah, I think you're a different breed, you know, and it, with all due respect to other people and of course you as well, you're a different breed and you also have a lot of training, right?
00:32:06.180So the normal, normal average American doesn't have the level of training that you do that you're going to be running.
00:32:12.260And it also comes with your personality.
00:32:14.340I mean, you wouldn't have been a Navy SEAL if you didn't have some of that inherent, just fighter mentality.
00:32:20.340And I think there are people who do, they're just my, my youngest son is one of those.
00:32:24.740I don't know if he's going to become a Navy SEAL or anything like that, but I know that kid wants to fight.
00:32:49.040Because if you don't have the courage that matches, if both of those things aren't equal, then you'll, you'll find yourself in a world of hesitation and get yourself killed or get other people killed.
00:33:10.780Men, let me pause the conversation very briefly.
00:33:13.220Uh, I want to talk with you about our battle ready program.
00:33:17.300Now, look, when I say battle, many men see only a physical confrontation.
00:33:22.080And while it's possible that you may actually find yourself needing to defend against a physical attack, it's more likely that the battle you're dealing with is for your marriage and your financial stability or your health risks or career stability.
00:33:36.100But regardless of what you're dealing with, I want you to be prepared for the battle that you face every single day.
00:33:42.400And that's why I put together the free battle ready program.
00:33:45.580It's a series of 17 emails that you'll receive that are going to walk you through the exact steps that I use personally on a daily basis to overcome and thrive against whatever life has to throw at you and me.
00:33:57.360But please, guys, disclaimer, don't start the program.
00:34:00.960If you're not going to finish, everybody does that with other things and it just doesn't serve you.
00:34:29.420I also wonder, though, if there is some cultural conditioning, you know, let's say and there were men you can see in the videos who identified that this was somebody who should not have been there.
00:34:40.940Somebody who had a firearm and were clearly threatened by what was going on.
00:34:46.320But then you have what's what's the guy's name?
00:34:50.160Daniel Penny, if you remember, is the guy who subdued the individual on I think it was either the train or the subway, and he ended up killing him.
00:35:32.200You know, we are like the I always tell people the end of the wars, both Iraq and Afghanistan were for us were basically governed by attorneys, which is insane.
00:35:42.040You know, and then coupled with attorneys was investigations, right?
00:35:48.260Everything he did, it was all good, you know, but we just need to investigate it anyway.
00:35:54.780You know, it's just and so I feel like, you know, obviously we put ourselves in a situation where doing the right thing or doing something good once again creates hesitation because, well, what's the consequence?
00:36:09.660And is the consequence is my action worth the consequence that may be delivered to me, which is kind of unfortunate, right?
00:36:16.140Because if we've got a bunch of people that want to do the right thing, but they go, wait a minute, I might go to jail.
00:36:22.440I'm not going to do the right thing now.
00:36:24.180Well, that's that's a horrible place for like society to be.
00:36:28.880I mean, this this guy, again, based, you know, based on the circumstances, I know Daniel Penny, that guy should be given a key to the city.
00:36:35.660I mean, he should be heralded as a as a hero, you know, not not as a criminal.
00:36:41.840And and that's the problem that we as society have is we place these people into these categories that they don't belong.
00:36:47.680We should be celebrating him because he was a man who was acting courageously and not only on the behalf of his own self, but other people who are in the subway at the same time.
00:36:56.080And it's it's a hard pill to swallow when you have a guy who knows what he should be doing.
00:37:01.620But he's also got a family and he's also got responsibilities and he's got people to take care of, you know, and you hear this.
00:39:52.560And that way, if something does catch you off guard, because we always have to respect the element of surprise, you've already answered the decisions hundreds of times before you face that threat.
00:40:06.620So now you've put time on your side because all you've got to do is act out the very thing that you have decided hundreds of times before.
00:40:16.980And you always write time equals opportunity, opportunity equals survivability.
00:40:26.200And so the goal is always make time and an ally versus an adversary.
00:40:34.660So human performance, tactical decision making are, I think, two huge skills, if you will, that every man should be practicing so that they're better prepared for what could potentially come around the corner.
00:40:49.880Yeah, I tend, I tend to look at this in the realm of sports, you know, if you're going to go compete against another football team, you're going to study film, you're going to visualize, you're going to try to get an idea of what the opponent's going to do so that when you get on the field, you're not making decisions for the first time.
00:41:07.060You might be experiencing it for the first time, but you're not making decisions for the first time.
00:41:12.540And so when that tackle pulls and goes to the left, you can be pretty confident that that's a play to the left side.
00:41:19.700But I think a lot of guys, they just, I mean, how many people are just buried in their phone, right?
00:41:26.520They're at their, they're at dinner with their wife or their kids, or they're hanging out with their buddies and they're buried in their phone.
00:41:32.500Or I went to dinner the other night with my girlfriend and there was probably 15 guys at the table next to us and they're completely just shit faced beyond, you know, recognition.
00:41:40.880And they're just loud, obnoxious and swearing and everything else.
00:41:43.940And it's like, man, those guys are useless.
00:41:46.400And if, if everything, if something were to go down, those guys are completely useless.
00:41:50.540And not only that, they're probably a liability more than anything else.
00:41:56.440Um, and so if you turn tactical decision-making into your own game, what if in your environments that you're walking into, you're automatically forced to put your phone away.