Order of Man - CODY JEFFERSON ｜ Build a Life That Calls to You

00:00:00.000 Too many men are wandering around aimlessly through life, doing just enough in their existence

00:00:05.100 to make it through one more day. That's part of the reason I founded Order of Man and bring

00:00:10.720 in incredible men like my guest today, Cody Jefferson. He is on a mission to help men find

00:00:15.460 their purpose and live a life they're called to live. Today, Cody and I talk about why so many

00:00:20.160 men feel they're always behind and never enough, the pressures a man faces daily and how to relieve

00:00:26.300 them correctly, the source of joy and peace in a man's life, how your body will tell you a lot

00:00:31.740 about your attitude and efforts in life, why men should focus on who they are, not what they do,

00:00:38.160 and so much more. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly

00:00:44.000 chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You

00:00:49.840 are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is

00:00:56.340 who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:01:02.060 you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, welcome to the Order of Man podcast. Glad that you are tuning

00:01:08.780 in. Purpose, passion, callings, these are all topics that a lot of men obviously are very interested

00:01:15.560 in, and it's part of the reason I started Order of Man and was introduced to a man by the name of

00:01:21.040 Cody Jefferson years and years ago, probably eight, nine years ago when we became friends

00:01:25.120 through our own journey. So we've got a good one lined up for you today. Before we get into it,

00:01:31.260 not only do I want to thank you for making this possible and being here, but I also want to mention

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00:02:17.360 Guys, let me introduce you to Cody. He is a father. He's an entrepreneur, a life and business coach.

00:02:23.020 He's also a former pastor where his transformation really began after facing a very public divorce.

00:02:30.100 He lost eight family members in a span of a year. He also suffered a very life-threatening

00:02:35.980 septic episode in 2016. And following 13 years in his ministry, he often sacrificed his own

00:02:43.860 well-being for his church. I think a lot of us can attest to sacrificing ourselves. But he committed

00:02:49.720 to rebuilding his life. He focuses on health and purpose and moving beyond his identity or his role

00:02:55.940 as a quote-unquote fixer. Today, he's the founder of Embrace the Lion and the Scale Method, and he's

00:03:01.200 helped thousands of high-achieving men, business leaders, and entrepreneurs align their careers,

00:03:05.980 with fulfilling relationships, and spiritual health, and emotional well-being. He's also

00:03:11.820 recognized as a powerful keynote speaker. He's an advisor, and he does a great job at combining

00:03:17.880 faith-based leadership with strategy around performance to help men scale without sacrificing

00:03:24.860 what really matters most in their lives. Cody, what's up, man? So good to see you. I can't believe

00:03:31.340 we've known each other for as long as we have, what, eight, nine years, and we've never done a

00:03:35.260 podcast together. Well, no time like the present. Lord had his plan. That's what I think. It's like

00:03:40.600 it comes together at just the right time, right? That's it. I mean, I feel like that's been the

00:03:45.620 story of my life. So I'm glad to be here. I've supported you close and far for a number of years,

00:03:51.280 and I'm just glad to chop it up, dude. Yeah, man. When you say, well, when we were talking about

00:03:57.260 he has a plan for us, it's the right time. It comes together at the right time. I know you're

00:04:02.780 a believer. I know you have a lot of faith in that. Tell me a little bit about that, because I think

00:04:06.420 there's a lot of guys out there who, you know, they struggle, and I have too, quite honestly, with

00:04:10.820 wanting our own stuff to work out, but it doesn't work on our timeline. So tell me a little bit about

00:04:16.380 that. Man, isn't that the conundrum, especially being somebody who feels like they're called to

00:04:22.400 more. It feels like there's a call on your life to be more and to do more and to have more and to

00:04:27.140 impact more. And it feels like a big rushing to wait game. And I think, man, I don't think we're

00:04:33.540 so far off from Israel back in the biblical times of Exodus when, you know, they find themselves

00:04:39.360 circling the same mountain because they think they understand what God wants for their lives, but

00:04:43.480 they always equated that with a place. So they're always looking for this promised land. They're

00:04:48.040 always looking for this place that God's going to deliver them to. And we read later on in Exodus

00:04:52.900 that God meets Moses on a mountain. He's like, listen, I'll deliver you the land. I'll give you

00:04:57.600 everything that you want. I'm not going to go with you though. So my presence isn't going to be there.

00:05:01.620 Yeah. He actually calls them a stiff necked people. And because they're building altars, they're doing a

00:05:06.380 lot of things to try and reconcile the fact that they continue to wander. And so he goes back and

00:05:12.700 they, again, they find themselves in a position of saying, nah, if God's not with us, then we don't

00:05:17.640 want it. I think what I've recognized for myself and somebody who has had pursuits and who still

00:05:22.500 has pursuits and has a timeline that I would really love for things to work on is that one, there never

00:05:28.980 really is an arrival that the promised land that we're always looking for isn't ever a place. It's

00:05:33.620 always the presence of God in our lives. And so I think that's what we miss sometimes is we're so busy

00:05:38.260 trying to get to the next thing that we don't wholly take in what it is that God's doing right

00:05:42.640 now, even in the mess of things, even when things aren't going really well and we'd rather go around

00:05:46.680 it or above it or below it. There's a book I used to read to my son when he was a kid called going on

00:05:51.820 a bear hunt. And it was like, you just got to go through it. And I think it's in going through those

00:05:57.260 things and in reconciling that things don't always work on our timelines that we find that the promise

00:06:03.680 was always the presence. Yeah. I'm trying to wrap. Well, first of all, I want to know what that book

00:06:07.860 is because I've got kids. I want to read, I want to read that book. So you and I can't figure that

00:06:12.000 out. It's called going on a bear hunt. And that's what it's called. Okay. Easy enough going on a bear

00:06:15.120 hunt. It's a kid's book. It sounds like. Yeah. So I'll have to check that out. Um, yeah, yeah,

00:06:19.880 it is hard because we all get arrogant. We all get braggadocious and have, uh, we're full of pride at

00:06:24.860 times and we think, you know, our plan is better. Um, but looking back on my own shortcomings and pitfalls,

00:06:30.700 I guess the key differentiator is what do you do in those moments? Cause a lot of men will use those

00:06:35.440 moments to, uh, retreat to self-sabotage, to play the victim game. And then there's other men, you

00:06:42.400 know, maybe it's the Pareto principle where it's 20% of those guys who will use those moments and

00:06:46.480 opportunities to learn and grow and develop and be something more than they were in the past.

00:06:50.600 Well, I think so much of it, I mean, I believe you would probably say the same thing.

00:06:54.700 So much of it comes in having a really solid circle and I'm not talking about all the people.

00:07:01.800 I think one of the great tragedies of personal development and the whole influence movement

00:07:07.760 and all of us, you know, being called to cultivate influence in some way and you can't exist without

00:07:13.440 social media and things is you start to really equate like your second chapter with somebody

00:07:19.680 else's 32nd chapter. And you feel this perpetual, always being behind and never being enough,

00:07:25.920 especially when as for a lot of us young men, a lot of our self-worth was predicated on our

00:07:31.700 usefulness and how well we were able to accomplish things and solve problems. And so then when you

00:07:37.820 consistently feel behind, it's important to remember that, I mean, you're in your own race.

00:07:42.360 Like there is, I look at guys around me and some are further, some are further behind,

00:07:45.960 but it's all, it doesn't matter. Like I'm just, I'm called to mind. And so I think when we can get

00:07:49.960 around other men who, who can understand that, who can hold us to it, but you know, as well as I

00:07:55.660 do, especially in leadership, it's really hard to allow yourself to be open in those conversations

00:08:00.520 because you're the one who's supposed to be stewarding something forward. And you're the one

00:08:04.400 that somebody is always coming to someone who's always supposed to have the solutions. And if you're

00:08:08.800 not careful and if you choose to be seen rather than to be known, which you can be in the deepest

00:08:15.300 of circles and still choose to only be seen, you self-sacrifice the, the calling on your life to

00:08:21.540 the sabotage, uh, of your own inconsistencies and, and your own insecurities. And, uh, I've seen it

00:08:27.880 in my own life. I've seen it in friends' lives, uh, where you can be the one that's front and front

00:08:32.500 and center and behind the scenes. Like you're so busy trying to save everybody else that you forget

00:08:37.180 to save yourself in the process. I feel like I, I really do feel that deeply personally, but when you

00:08:42.580 say that choose to be seen rather than to be known, that's an interesting phrase. And I'm kind of

00:08:46.260 processing that a little bit. It's hard for, that's all of us. Yeah. It's all of us, man. We, it is.

00:08:51.640 Yeah. We need to be known. Well, we need to be influential. Yeah. When I don't mean that, I mean,

00:08:56.220 like known intimately by people around you, like we're a culture that's desperate to be known. We want

00:09:00.480 people to know us, but we're so afraid of what people might think. We're so afraid of how we might let

00:09:04.740 people down. We're so afraid that if the facade comes off and you actually really knew me,

00:09:09.200 you wouldn't actually love the person behind what I'm doing because I have my own inconsistencies.

00:09:15.020 So I'm just going to let you, I'll settle for being seen, which is the front facing social media,

00:09:19.800 social platform, raw, raw leadership influence. And I'm going to keep you at arm's length because

00:09:25.200 if you really knew me, there's some darkness here and there's some frustration, which is part of the

00:09:29.840 reason I lead. Look, I mean, let's, let's be honest though. There's some truth to that. Like there,

00:09:35.260 there's some validity to the concept that if you let people know who you really are,

00:09:39.140 they're going to think less of you. Um, they're not going to follow you. Like, so where do you,

00:09:43.600 where do you find the balance between being known versus being seen and also maintaining your frame

00:09:50.780 as a man? Yeah. Well, I can tell you how I've done it that hasn't worked in the past. Uh, but I can

00:09:58.420 tell you how it works for me now and how it works for me now is, uh, one, uh, I've removed every vice

00:10:07.620 that could take me out, uh, from, from any part of my life. And that has been a labor and has been

00:10:17.560 harder some days than others. Um, and I, I think we probably, you know, share some, some similar

00:10:23.500 paths of, of things that we've navigated through and walked through that, uh, needed to be eradicated

00:10:28.200 from our lives. I mean, let's talk about alcohol abuse for me. That was alcohol for me. Yeah. And so

00:10:33.660 I just reconciled, like, I, I don't use like sober language. Cause I'm like now, cause then you're

00:10:38.420 counting days and I don't want to count days. I just want to say, it's just not who I am. So it's

00:10:42.360 just not what I do. And so it's more of an identity confirmation that, uh, and so just eradicate that.

00:10:48.920 I adhere to some very strong daily habits, but also I know what God's purpose for my life is. And I

00:10:55.760 think when you know what your purpose is and you know what you're called to every day,

00:10:59.480 it eradicates all of the anxiety and the depression and the frustration and the not being enough.

00:11:05.920 Cause you recognize that it's not yours anyway. And the greatest thing that I, I'm going to steward

00:11:10.840 in my life is my family, my kids, um, my wife, my co-parent, um, and doing that very, you know,

00:11:18.240 well and graciously. And so when you recognize, I think I just had to recognize that it's not just

00:11:22.980 about me. I think we get, when you start hiding and you start getting into, for me, you know,

00:11:29.680 self-medicating and isolating. And then, you know, then you push everyone away cause you don't want

00:11:34.880 them to smell it. Or like, so you just create fights that don't even exist. So people aren't

00:11:38.460 around you. It was just, it's just the oddest thing that like, you're actually doing the very

00:11:41.740 things that like you don't want and you don't need, um, to pacify this, uh, this real demon

00:11:48.720 and, um, getting rid of that, whatever your vice is, uh, that was a big piece of it for me.

00:11:55.020 Yeah. I mean, I think that's, I think that's been my own personal journey, uh, regarding what

00:12:00.460 has kept me. It's a, it's a barrier, right? It's a wall or something that keeps you between

00:12:05.580 you and the people that you love and care about your kids, um, your spouse, uh, a future potential

00:12:11.200 partner, which obviously that's the situation you're in, or even just the people you're trying

00:12:15.760 to serve, like a movement like you're doing or what I'm doing.

00:12:17.840 Yeah. Well, not only that, but I think it is absolutely that. And I think we just don't talk

00:12:26.860 about the, the pressure that a man faces when he is called to more in the way that there's

00:12:34.360 self-worth behind that. And you'll self-sabotage, not because you're really afraid of failing

00:12:39.100 because you're already doing that behind closed doors. It is more that the, the fear of who do I

00:12:46.360 become in the process? Like, what will I have to give up? Who, what associations will

00:12:49.960 I have to let die? And how do I keep this up? Am I going to do this forever? Is this how

00:12:54.660 I'm setting my family up for the rest of our lives? Can I do this for it? Can I sustain

00:12:58.960 this? Am I going to be relevant? What if I'm not, it's almost this, like, what if I succeed

00:13:03.760 that, that is a big, that was a big hindrance for me of almost like a Jonah in the whale of

00:13:10.540 like, I don't want to go there. I know you want me to, I know you're calling me, but

00:13:14.320 like, I don't even know if I'm worth that. Well, there was this, uh, there's this, this

00:13:20.440 famous quote from, I believe it's Marianne Williamson who talks about our deepest fear

00:13:24.980 is not that we'll fail, but that will succeed. And it's been hard for me to wrap my head around

00:13:28.980 that. But as you talk about this idea that like, I don't think people are afraid of success,

00:13:33.060 but when you said that, that really resonated with me. You said people aren't necessarily afraid

00:13:36.940 of the success that they'll achieve, but what will they have to give up and who will they

00:13:40.040 need to become? And is it sustainable? So like everybody wants to achieve success. Like

00:13:45.400 everybody wants to have a great marriage. Everybody wants to have financial abundance,

00:13:48.220 but then you start linking that with the work they'll have to do and how long they'll have

00:13:52.900 to do it for. Maybe that's the fear, not the success, but the sacrifice required to have

00:13:57.220 it. Yeah. It's the upkeep. It's the, it's the, I mean, you even look at guys who are just

00:14:02.880 in marketplace who aren't running anything, uh, from like a business perspective and they're

00:14:08.040 all panicking and having like thoughts like, okay, what is AI going to replace? And what

00:14:12.900 is this going to replace? And am I going to be just another commodity? And what happens

00:14:16.240 when the things that I've devoted my life to with my hands are no longer valuable in marketplace

00:14:20.420 because now they're all outsourced and we pushed them to the lowest bidder and we have,

00:14:24.920 we don't have any loyalty to the work of hard hands and the common man. Well, and you have

00:14:31.500 people like us who aren't building things and then it's like, yeah. And then how do I keep

00:14:35.680 you employed? And how do I, when market is shifting this way, like, how am I going to keep these

00:14:40.500 people? How, like, I've got families now that rely on full-time salaries for me. And so like,

00:14:46.980 there's just a lot of pressure that comes from growing something substantial and meaningful

00:14:51.520 that I think is beautiful. It's, I love entrepreneurship. I love capitalism. And also there's a flip side

00:14:58.700 of the coin and the pressure that comes along with it that we don't really talk about. We just talk

00:15:02.220 about the Lambos and like the cool stuff that you get and the parties that you get invited to and all

00:15:06.040 the cool content you get to create on the backside of it. But interestingly enough, that goes away.

00:15:11.120 It's very fickle. That goes away very quickly when you start to falter or fail. It's not that people

00:15:16.620 ever cared about you. It's what they cared about. You could, you could represent or give to them.

00:15:20.980 Yeah. Well, and I even found that to be true. And again, it's not that people are bad

00:15:24.740 in any way, shape or form. That was true when I was in ministry. Sure. Sure. Yeah. But when I was

00:15:31.160 in ministry and I got really sick and I'd been making hospital visits for 15 years as a pastor,

00:15:35.840 and I'd recognized nobody came to see me when I was septic as a pastor, that was a, it's okay. But

00:15:42.360 it's an interesting thing of like me, that's what led me into starting coaching is that because I

00:15:47.680 recognize like, man, if men don't start taking care of themselves, like you'll, you'll,

00:15:53.040 you'll give everybody enough lead rope to hang you with it. And not because they're intentionally

00:15:57.680 trying to do you harm, but because at the end of the day, most people are looking out

00:16:02.340 for themselves and looking at how you can be a catalyst in their change, not how they can

00:16:07.280 be a catalyst in yours. It's the difference between being a here I am person and a there

00:16:10.580 you are person. Most people are here. I am people, not because they're bad people, but

00:16:14.780 just because of survival mechanisms and, you know, being in that type of mindset.

00:16:19.120 Well, so what does it actually mean to take care of yourself? Because I know that's a

00:16:23.840 question. I know it's a topic a lot of people hear and, and I think a lot of the times it's

00:16:28.000 paid lip service, like focus on yourself, be the king, you know, everybody else needs last

00:16:32.220 or whatever, like whatever the things are we hear. Um, which I don't, I don't totally agree

00:16:37.560 with, but I also do agree with the idea that you need to take care of yourself in order to

00:16:41.980 serve others. What does that actually look like in practicality?

00:16:44.460 Yeah. Well, one, uh, I just, I want to set the record straight. Nobody listening to this,

00:16:49.940 watching this, you're not a King. You are a dude who has a mortgage in the suburbs. Let's

00:16:54.660 just, let's just be clear. Like I believe there's one King and I serve him and that's it. I'll

00:17:00.480 never call myself a King. Um, that is, uh, it's cute though. It's, it's, it's good for marketing.

00:17:06.460 Um, we like to call ourselves a lot of names. Yeah. Alphas. Yeah. Yeah. Let's refer to ourselves

00:17:14.420 as certain animals and things. Um, but at any rate, how do, you know, how do I found peace and

00:17:19.420 how do I help our guys find peace? Um, and how do we, how do we take care of ourselves? And so

00:17:25.500 for me, it starts with recognize that I'm not those things, but I serve the one who is.

00:17:30.060 And when I can recognize that and I wake up and I start every day thanking God that I'm alive again

00:17:36.520 and that he's, uh, give me another opportunity to steward what he's called me to effectively.

00:17:43.040 Um, that's a real gift. Uh, I roll over and I kiss my wife and I speak gratitude over her.

00:17:49.540 She is, um, she's the greatest evidence of peace and God's reconciliation in my life. She is absolutely

00:17:55.620 just the, the most peace filled individual you'll ever meet. And I walked through my house and I

00:18:01.860 give thanks for my family, for my kids and that they're healthy. And I opened the word every single

00:18:07.280 morning, not because it's cool to post it on social media and show people that you're reading. I've been

00:18:11.920 doing this since I was eight years old with my grandfather. I don't have a big, extensive,

00:18:16.900 long morning routine. I don't, you know, do half the things that the cool guys do, but I read my word

00:18:21.440 every morning and, uh, I go for a morning walk. It's pretty peaceful. And by yourself or with your

00:18:27.800 wife? I'm a man. I'm usually up around 3am. My wife, my wife's not really, she's not really even

00:18:34.640 a Christian until like 9am. So, uh, I would ask, I would ask when she becomes a Christian and when

00:18:41.040 she isn't, but I don't want to get too personal. So we'll, uh, we'll leave that question unasked.

00:18:45.820 Yeah, no, no, about 9am. She, she, uh, she's good to go. She's not, she's not really a morning

00:18:51.380 person. So she, I mean, she wakes up earlier than that, but it takes her some time to get her

00:18:55.060 bearings about her. And I'm the opposite. Like I am, I'm up, I'm ready. I don't need an alarm.

00:19:00.020 I'm excited every morning. Um, but the flip side is she can stay up till 1am and by 930, man,

00:19:07.400 that's a spiritual gift. I'm just put a movie on and I'm asleep. I'm out. So it's just different

00:19:12.940 strokes. Uh, but it, it does, uh, carry to the point that your spouse doesn't have to be just

00:19:17.940 like you and doesn't, she has no desire to like build some empire and be like alpha feet. Like 1.00

00:19:22.780 she just, she loves being my wife. She loves being my support. She loves being a mom. She, uh, uh,

00:19:28.980 she is a quiet servant leader. Uh, but also she's German. So like, she can not be quiet for sure. 1.00

00:19:36.020 Um, great judge of people. Um, I think I'm still in pastoral mentality where I just,

00:19:41.500 I want to believe the best in everybody all the time. And, uh, even if somebody is wrong to me or

00:19:46.800 anything else, like I still believe in God's grace and that reconciliation of peace. Um, she's not

00:19:53.860 what, like she is, she has a good spidey sense and has been right about everyone. Um, women are 1.00

00:20:00.640 pretty good at that actually. Yeah. Women are really good at that. That's another conversation 1.00

00:20:03.740 for another time. But, uh, but, uh, yeah. So, you know, it's very simple for me. Um, but that's how,

00:20:11.000 that's how I take care of myself. Uh, I know what I'm doing every single day. I don't go into any day

00:20:15.140 not knowing what's on. And I run several entities now, a lot I don't talk about, but I got a lot of

00:20:20.900 irons in the fire and, uh, coaching is, is one of them, but, uh, it's, it's, we're pretty deep in our

00:20:27.220 endeavors. And so that requires a certain level of focus. And I think when you have that kind of focus

00:20:31.800 and you know what your call is and you know what you're doing every day and you prioritize the,

00:20:36.680 the things that actually matter or should matter to you. So for me, I'm done it. Uh, I'm done usually

00:20:42.160 at 3 PM every single day. My boys and I go fishing pretty much every day. Uh, we have practices most

00:20:49.120 every single night. I don't miss practices. Uh, I speak still, but I say no to most things because

00:20:54.300 it conflicts with sports schedules. I don't miss games. Um, I've just recognized I don't need any of

00:20:59.500 those things to build what I'm building. So I can build my own stage and platform online or through

00:21:04.260 events here. And so that's what we've done. Um, I didn't always get it right, Ryan. And, um,

00:21:10.120 I've recognized, man, like what brings me the most peace is being with my family and being with my

00:21:14.720 kids and showing them what's possible and showing them a man who's not perfect, showing them a man

00:21:19.120 who, um, but puts in, puts in a hundred percent effort every day. You said you didn't always get

00:21:23.760 it right. Can you be more specific? Well, sure. When I was, uh, so that's what led to, uh,

00:21:28.960 my divorce from Stetson's mom. Um, I was, I thought I was doing all the right things. I was

00:21:34.720 showing up for everything. I was a pastor at the time. I was showing up for everything. I was at all

00:21:39.660 the events for her. Uh, she was a coach, a dance coach. And, uh, uh, but I was so addicted to

00:21:47.680 affirmation in the church. I didn't really have any identity outside of my usefulness for people in the

00:21:52.100 church and solving problems. And, uh, and that comes from childhood. Uh, you know, I, I had an

00:21:58.360 upbringing where the adults in my life were, were really heavy on suicidal ideation on a daily basis

00:22:03.420 and assignment to talk people off ledges every single day. And as a six, seven, eight year old,

00:22:08.920 you don't really ever get to process your own emotions. And, uh, you recognize that the only

00:22:14.400 time that they're telling you, like they love you and you're amazing is on the backside of some real,

00:22:19.680 real, real trauma. And if you don't deal with that, then you grow up and I get a ministry,

00:22:24.540 which is amazing. I love ministry. And also it was a perfect catalyst for my deepest traumas and

00:22:32.160 insecurities to be made manifest. So nothing was ever good enough. I can never help enough people.

00:22:38.120 The thank yous, they just, they weren't enough. Um, and I was working for a church at the time that

00:22:45.360 was very toxic and very toxic in leadership. And so I was working like 18 hours a day. And, uh,

00:22:53.180 at, at around that time, my grandfather passed away, who was the patriarch of our family. So,

00:22:58.380 you know, I'm drinking at night, not to get drunk. I just need to, I just need, I can't shut it off.

00:23:02.040 I just need to shut it off. I feel that. And so I was, I'm just, I'm, you know, but that's how it

00:23:06.880 starts, right? Just like, ah, it's fine. I got this. It's not a big deal. Like everybody does this.

00:23:11.720 Everybody, like it's fine. Everybody else can do it. Um, and what happened is man is like,

00:23:18.600 I'm working 18 hours and then, um, just passing out and I'm present, but I'm not present. And we're

00:23:25.640 having a kid, we're having Stetson and I'm present, but I'm not present. And it got to the point where,

00:23:31.360 um, you know, he took his first steps in our house and I can't see them because I'm on a call with

00:23:37.380 somebody and they need me because it's the church and I'm a pastor and my job is God and God is my

00:23:41.700 job and I can't let it go. And, um, I missed so many of those moments in the beginning and I was

00:23:48.020 there because I, I prioritized the wrong thing. I, I sacrificed my soul and my family and everything

00:23:54.420 I loved on the altar of self, some self-perceived success of being needed. And, uh, it's caused me

00:24:00.840 to go sick in 2017. So, you know, we went through our divorce and then I lost a lot of people and that

00:24:05.840 was pretty traumatic, but I still showed up for the church. I was still there. I was still going 18 hours a

00:24:11.340 day. I just had Stetson half the time now. So I lost my identity as a full-time dad. I lost my identity

00:24:16.200 as a husband. This is all I have. I'm going, I'm going, I'm going, I'm going, I'm going. And it got to the

00:24:21.660 point where, you know, enough people started dying around me. You remember that season, like my 18 month

00:24:26.700 old niece was sexually assaulted to death. My 19 year old sister was strangled to death. My sister-in-law

00:24:31.800 committed suicide. My best friend committed suicide. My mentor died in a motorcycle accident. I had three

00:24:36.740 friends in ministry commit suicide. Like I'm leaving all these funerals while walking me through a

00:24:40.520 divorce and wrestling with identity that I don't even understand. And it was when I went septic in

00:24:45.940 2017, as a result of that, the cortisol just turned my body toxic. Oh, so it wasn't, it wasn't an

00:24:52.080 infection necessarily. It was just, uh, the, the result of stress or stress. Whoa. Stress and cortisol

00:24:58.160 caused, caused, caused infection. My body turned on itself. Oh my goodness. Okay. I didn't,

00:25:03.380 everybody was like, no, I'm built different. I'm like, yeah, everybody's like, I'm built different.

00:25:07.480 I'm like, you're built different until you're not, you're built different until your body keeps the

00:25:11.420 score. And I was going through so much trauma. Even now today, like I'm a hundred and I've led

00:25:15.520 144 funerals. I mean, that's how deep I am right now in 22 years. And, uh, it carries a fair amount

00:25:21.640 of trauma with it. It carries a fair amount of responsibility. I'm grateful for it today. I

00:25:24.960 recognize the gift that it is. Then I didn't, I didn't understand at all. And it was too much

00:25:29.800 trauma at once. So that's what caused me to go septic. And that's when I recognized,

00:25:33.540 and I didn't get it right again. It took me a few more years to get it right. Um, to recognize like

00:25:39.360 there's no greater gift than just being the best dad and best husband and best co-parent,

00:25:44.580 but co-parent and I are very, very close friends. We have a great, great relationship. We do all our

00:25:49.100 holidays together. We do everything together. And, uh, my wife and my, my co-parent are amazing

00:25:54.780 friends. And that is my greatest success is my family. Everything else is tinsel. So

00:25:59.480 I've just watched too many men fall. I mean, even now watching a lot fall, just trying to prop up

00:26:05.320 narratives and, uh, doors that were open that God, God never called them to walk through.

00:26:10.240 What do you mean by that? Doors that were open that God never called them to walk through.

00:26:14.020 So doors that were open that God never called you to walk through your charisma and talent will

00:26:17.480 open doors for you all the time. Everybody's going to want a piece of that. You say the right

00:26:21.060 things, you do the right things, you wear the right things, you know, the right people that'll

00:26:25.640 open so many doors for you. But if you're not careful, it'll be your ego that walks

00:26:29.060 through because God never called you to walk through some of those rooms. I, uh, I mean,

00:26:33.900 I won't, I won't name names. I just don't think that that's pertinent to the conversation.

00:26:37.340 But, uh, about three years ago, I was at, I was speaking in an event, um, big, all the

00:26:43.380 names we know. I was very grateful. I was super grateful to be there. I thought it was like,

00:26:47.180 you know, I'd be like, I made it, Brian. Yeah. It feels good. Yeah. Validation feels good.

00:26:51.440 Come on, let's go. And then in the back, like, and these guys are all talking Jesus from

00:26:55.640 the stage and I get in the back and like doing Coke, like serious. Is it the nineties? What

00:27:01.180 are we doing here? Whoa, really? And then talking about like, like women that were there that

00:27:05.880 were not their wives. And, uh, my videographer is with me and I'm so embarrassed. Like I'm,

00:27:13.640 and I, I'm covered in tattoos. I look pretty rugged. I'm, I'm the 41 year old who's like never

00:27:19.580 been to like a male club. I've never, like, I'm just not that guy. And, uh, and so I'm

00:27:26.220 not shocked cause I've been around it, but I was shocked because of what they were saying

00:27:30.720 in their platforms, but no big deal. You know, we're all adults here. Uh, we're just going

00:27:35.340 to leave and we'll, we'll just go back to the hotel. Not a big deal. Um, cause I have

00:27:39.940 some pretty strict boundaries for myself. Like I don't, I don't, you know, I don't drink,

00:27:43.500 so I don't drink at bars. I, I don't get in cars with women. I don't get in elevators with 1.00

00:27:48.380 women. I don't get in closed rooms with women. There's a lot of little things. And for me, 1.00

00:27:52.140 I just don't want to be around that. Cause if my son can't be around it, I don't want

00:27:54.960 to be around it. So we just go back to the hotel and, uh, I go to sleep and we're, we

00:28:00.100 have a, we're sharing a room. Or it was just your videographer. No, no, no, no. Got it.

00:28:03.820 It was just my videographer. It was one of my best friends. And, uh, I guess in the middle

00:28:09.180 of the night, I woke up, I woke up in a sweat and a full on panic attack and he didn't

00:28:14.280 know what was going on. So he jumped out of his bed and started praying for me.

00:28:17.480 And he's like, what's going on? And I was like, dude, I just had a dream. And in the

00:28:22.560 dream, uh, we're, we're all sitting at a VIP table together, me and everybody that's

00:28:27.660 here. That's, you know, VIP. And, uh, somebody comes up behind me and puts their hand on my

00:28:33.900 shoulder and whispers in my ear, you fought to sat at a table that my son would have turned

00:28:39.120 over.

00:28:39.980 Meaning Christ.

00:28:40.900 And yeah. And, uh, I mean, I was in tears. I was like, I was scared and, um, called my

00:28:47.680 wife and I was like, I, I'm going to speak, but we got to come home. We, we, I can't be

00:28:52.120 here. And so I haven't, you know, been around any of those guys since. And again, no judgment.

00:28:58.860 It is what it is. But I think if you, you got to be able to stand for something and recognize

00:29:04.960 where God is calling you and recognize that in God calling you, it's going to separate you

00:29:09.440 as well. And that's okay.

00:29:12.040 Men, as I do every week, I'm going to step away from the conversation very briefly. Uh,

00:29:15.920 we still have our brotherhood, the iron council open, and it's only going to be open for a

00:29:19.460 short time. Um, I really want to talk with you about accountability. Uh, not only is the

00:29:24.980 iron council, a brotherhood of strong driven men who are committed to mastering themselves.

00:29:30.340 Uh, it's also somewhere where you get a ton of accountability and that's the backbone of

00:29:37.300 the iron council because without accountability, all of our good intentions fade, um, excuses

00:29:43.020 creep in progress stalls. We've all been there. But when a man is held to a standard by the men

00:29:48.540 that he respects, he rises, he makes himself better. And in a way he forces himself to continue

00:29:54.440 to go on. Uh, accountability sharpens discipline. It exposes our blind spots. It ensures action.

00:30:01.500 It's not just talk. Uh, and in a world that encourages comfort and isolation and ease accountability

00:30:08.480 is what calls a man forward into strength and responsibility. And ultimately, and most importantly,

00:30:12.840 the results that he's going to experience. So I'm inviting you to join our exclusive brotherhood

00:30:17.980 where accountability is the backbone. You can do that at order of man.com slash iron council.

00:30:23.460 That's order of man.com slash iron council. Do that after this conversation for now,

00:30:28.700 let's get back to it with Cody. I think that's a pretty clear example. You had some premonition,

00:30:35.740 you had some divine inspiration. I would say, based on what I'm hearing you say, I don't want

00:30:38.800 to put words in your mouth, but I think there's also a lot of instances where we may not, it may

00:30:44.340 not be that clear to us. Yeah. And so how do you decide between what is, what is God speaking to you

00:30:50.260 versus like, whether he's opening that door or whether it's your own intuition, your own natural

00:30:55.780 desires of walking through that door and then convincing yourself it's a justifiable thing?

00:31:00.440 That's a great question. Sometimes it is more clear than others. And sometimes it's, it's,

00:31:05.340 it could be a really good opportunity, but you're not sure if it's an ordained opportunity

00:31:08.500 and if, if God's in the middle of it. And so for me, I have wise counsel. I have men who are much,

00:31:17.300 much further ahead than me in the game of business and finance. Most of them are in private equity and

00:31:21.500 venture capital, but amazing men of God who have been married 30 plus years are, they're like

00:31:28.360 incredibly hot. Their kids are all well-adjusted, amazing adult kids. They all come home for the

00:31:35.280 holidays. Like they all want to be together. It's not an act. It's not fake. And these are guys you,

00:31:41.540 they're, they're, they're not on the speaker circuit. They're not big influencers. They're none of

00:31:46.080 that. I met them through business dealings and through being on the board of, of a few companies.

00:31:53.060 And, uh, they're the, the guys that I call to bounce things off of and they'll pray with me

00:31:58.040 and they'll pray for me. Um, my wife is a prayer warrior. She prays with me and prays for me.

00:32:05.020 Um, I got a couple friends here that we can sit and we can pray together and they may not have the

00:32:09.980 right answer, but they can pray for clarity. And it takes it for me. It's, it's not that, Oh,

00:32:15.740 can't you just hear from God? Yeah. And I can also hear from myself sometimes. And I recognize that

00:32:22.500 it was always in a half truth of scripture that the enemy tempted Jesus in the desert.

00:32:28.540 And so if I'm tired, if I'm hungry, if, if I'm angry, if I'm any of these things,

00:32:34.360 then I might not be in the best right mind to be able to discern. So I want wise counsel around me.

00:32:41.620 So for me, that's what works for me. Yeah. I mean, wise counsel is having those men in my life.

00:32:46.100 I mean, that's powerful. I talk about that a lot, but, uh, so many men overlook that

00:32:50.960 because they don't know how to find it. It's difficult. It's challenging. They don't,

00:32:54.620 they won't let their ego down a little bit. There's a lot, there's a lot to that.

00:32:58.480 Which, you know, I hear you. Listen, I wasn't 2016. I was making $30,000 a year.

00:33:04.360 As a pastor, like we're talking balling on a freaking budget here. And I had to put myself 0.66

00:33:09.100 in the rooms. I, we met and I knew not a soul at the conference that we met at in 2000. I had

00:33:16.820 already known you for about a year. Like I was rocking all your swag. Your sticker's still on my

00:33:21.100 You sent me a picture just the other day. I can't believe eight years. That one's outdated. I got to

00:33:25.140 send you a new one. I don't, I want to send you a new one, but I'm like, no, keep that old one, dude.

00:33:28.920 I love that one. Listen, it's, it's, it's, it's not going anywhere. Like you, you know,

00:33:35.820 walking through that again, through that like season of sepsis and, and, and walking through

00:33:39.640 my whole rebuild season. Uh, I mean, I, we're talking about something else, but I do want to

00:33:44.080 like, I want to honor you, your friendship and belief in me got me through that season

00:33:49.480 genuinely. And you were probably in your own pit at that time. And you're probably struggling

00:33:53.580 with your own things at that time. But what you built in that season, I had never known

00:33:58.720 anything like it before. Everything in my world was so Christianese. And so just pray it away. 1.00

00:34:03.540 And like, you just got to believe more. I didn't know about the power of daily habits. I didn't know

00:34:07.800 about the power of stoicism. I didn't understand a lot of the methodologies and the principles that

00:34:13.360 you taught. And it was like drinking from a fire hydrant for a year and reading books like

00:34:18.540 no more, Mr. Nice guy. And then reading your books and like, it shifted everything for me

00:34:24.360 and man, I'd share about the group. I just absolutely loved it. And, but you know, when

00:34:29.300 we, and so I want to honor you with that. And that was a free room. That was a large Facebook

00:34:33.840 community that I was allowed to share in. I was allowed to share my thoughts in. I was allowed

00:34:38.500 to process in. I was allowed to get support from other men. I was able to support other men

00:34:42.760 and, uh, I, I wouldn't be where I'm at without that group. There's no way.

00:34:48.540 And it was such a pivotal part of my story. And we met at an event where I didn't know

00:34:54.900 anybody. I knew Brandon Duncan. That was it. And, uh, but it's putting yourself in those

00:35:00.460 kinds of rooms. I didn't have much money. I was flipping Harleys to make ends meet, but

00:35:06.200 I bought a ticket. I think Colby may comped me a ticket to go to the event, uh, cause I was

00:35:11.920 broke, but I went and in going, I got interviewed by Alan Taylor, which was crazy. Now Alan's

00:35:18.980 a dear friend. He's one that like, if I, if I need some insight, I can go to Alan. Alan

00:35:25.340 has been such a sage wisdom and such a dear friend and supportive of me over all these

00:35:29.800 years. And that's what I mean. If guys, if you'll just put yourself in the room, yeah,

00:35:34.760 you might have to, I've paid to play. I do. I like, I have no problem putting money where

00:35:39.820 I know you should quality conversations and things that are going to develop my mind to

00:35:45.440 develop my relationships and develop my business capacity and acumen. Let me pay for that so

00:35:51.060 that, you know, I'm serious. And so that I take myself seriously as well. What we don't

00:35:55.140 pay for, we don't really honor. We don't really take care of and we don't value. We don't put

00:35:59.300 it as a priority. So for whatever you can do, maybe it's a $97 a month group on school.

00:36:05.960 Maybe it's, you know, going to a live event. You've got to put yourself in rooms where you

00:36:10.060 can find those people. And then what it's going to do is it's going to illuminate who

00:36:14.860 you have to become to stay in that room. Anybody can get in the room and you can continue paying

00:36:20.580 to be in rooms, but to be one who's asked to lead the room, who do you have to become?

00:36:25.680 And like, and that's a real gift because that's our foundational question. What needs

00:36:29.060 to die in you to become the man you said you'd be? Who do you have to become? Which

00:36:33.140 is where the fear comes in. Cause I'm going to have to let go of this. And what are my

00:36:36.420 friends going to think? What's my wife going to think? What about my kids? What about my

00:36:39.860 job? What about this? What happens if you don't? Cause if it's not working, it's not

00:36:43.740 working. That's an interesting concept. What needs to die in you to become a man you, you

00:36:48.280 are meant to become. Um, does that have any sort of, uh, negative consequences? I mean,

00:36:53.560 it's, it's kind of a, I don't know how to say it. Maybe a darker look at motivation,

00:36:58.160 inspiration, growth, et cetera. Um, and so how do you, how do you balance that out

00:37:02.980 with, okay, here's what needs to die, but here's also what needs to grow and be born

00:37:08.520 in me. Yeah. Well, again, I think I've been around so much loss and I've seen so

00:37:12.300 much like real, real trauma that, uh, I think everything, everything has kind of

00:37:16.980 that spin on it. Not, not to be dark, to be like a horror film, but just, there's a

00:37:22.120 real recognition of our finality and our humanity and, um, how quick time goes and

00:37:29.340 how fragile life is. And when I say what needs to die in me to become the man that I

00:37:33.500 said that I'd be around, everybody wants the resurrection story. Everybody wants the

00:37:37.600 other side where man, you're the man that you always knew you'd be. You got the body

00:37:42.160 and you're working out and you got the money and your wife looks at you with awe and amazement

00:37:48.400 and your kids think you're a superhero. Yeah. Cool. That's the resurrection, but there is

00:37:54.120 no resurrection that happens without death. And so what has to die? Your fear, your

00:37:59.060 insecurities, all your vices, relationships that are not healthy and not serving that

00:38:04.640 cannot be salvaged, um, old mindsets and modalities, patterns, belief systems, what

00:38:11.960 needs to die so that the version of you that God has called, because God did choose 1.00

00:38:15.700 you. That is my belief. I don't believe that there are any accidents on this earth. I believe 1.00

00:38:19.740 that we're all called for something unique, but in order to step into that, you have to

00:38:23.800 die to yourself. And the hard part about that is it's a daily death. It doesn't just happen

00:38:29.200 once every day, every day at the end of the day. Am I proud of the man that God called me

00:38:35.180 to be today? Did I set a standard that is kingdom sized? Did I go all in? Was I someone

00:38:40.640 someone that I needed as a child? Like one day, like my kids will be in your kids too.

00:38:45.680 They're going to like get up to the high school age and they're going to graduate. And when

00:38:50.120 they graduate, they're going to come to you and you're going to say, shoot, you can do

00:38:53.720 anything and be anything you want to be. Like you have unlimited potential. And they're going

00:38:58.160 to say one of two things. One, dad, I know I watched you. I watched you not get it all

00:39:02.960 right. I watched you fall on your face a couple of times. I watched you walk through things

00:39:07.700 that I thought would take you out. And if I, if I look back on it now, I probably should

00:39:11.520 have taken you out, but it didn't. And you kept going and you kept putting to death all 0.84

00:39:16.860 the things in you that were separating you from God's love and that you knew you didn't

00:39:21.320 want to pass on to us. You kept transforming that pain. So you didn't continue to transmit

00:39:24.800 it to us. I know I can do and be anything. I've watched you. Or they're going to say, yeah,

00:39:29.640 you've been telling me that my whole life, but I've never seen you do it. So what makes you

00:39:33.300 think I'm going to believe it for myself? So you just have two options and I just

00:39:37.140 choose to confront the ego, to confront unforgiveness, to confront frustration, to

00:39:42.180 confront my annoyance with things that happen inside of our industry. And it

00:39:47.420 separates me from some people and it attaches me to others that are like life and

00:39:52.960 like-minded. It pushes me to share things that cause me to be separated from people

00:39:59.740 that I really, really love, not intentionally. But because I believe when you start

00:40:04.620 using the name of God and you start using scripture to further your marketing message and

00:40:08.980 you start using pastoral language, then biblically you become under that covering. And what you

00:40:13.660 don't recognize is when you do that biblically, everyone who comes in contact with your content,

00:40:19.160 their blood is on your hands. You are in pastoral integrity and leadership. I just don't think

00:40:23.520 a lot of people think about it that way. And so for me, that is a very heavy weight for

00:40:27.680 me. It's not a joke. I think there are times when I didn't take it as seriously as I do

00:40:32.540 now. And I'm by no means perfect, but every day I do wake up and I do my best on a daily

00:40:37.660 basis to put to death things that are separating me from who I know I'm called to be, to steward

00:40:42.960 and to carry what I'm called to effectively.

00:40:46.420 It's an interesting concept about this, not only stewardship, but when you start invoking the

00:40:52.140 name of God and Christ, how you're held to a higher standard, uh, on, on a significant lesser

00:40:57.240 level. Uh, I remember when I opened my own financial planning practice and moving from

00:41:02.080 a representative to an advisor, I became a fiduciary where now I was legally bound to operate on the

00:41:09.600 best interest of my clients, not the best interest of myself. It was a very, uh, very important

00:41:14.740 moment and transformation in my career at that time.

00:41:17.220 Yeah. That's such a good analogy. Like it's just when you make a shift, like responsibility

00:41:23.140 changes and it's not about you anymore.

00:41:26.560 You said something I wrestle with personally, and I actually didn't expect this conversation

00:41:30.460 to go here, but let's let it go here. Uh, you said that you said that God chooses you and

00:41:36.200 he chooses everybody for their own unique calling. And I can't help in my mind, this is the thing

00:41:41.140 I've wrestled with. And I know a lot of guys listening wrestle with this. There's eight plus

00:41:44.440 billion people on the planet. And there's been hundreds of billions of people throughout

00:41:48.240 human history. Did he call everybody? And, and, and if everybody, but if everybody's calling,

00:41:53.160 like is anybody calling? You know what I'm saying? Like, it's hard for me to wrap my head around

00:41:56.680 that.

00:41:56.900 Yeah. Well, everybody has this, like, so when we talk purpose, purpose isn't everything that

00:42:01.540 you do. Purpose is in much of being a dad or a business owner or just a friend, a man of

00:42:08.440 integrity, like an athlete, everything, a spouse, everything we do. Like we're not a fork,

00:42:13.940 so we're not a utility. Like our purpose isn't everything. And what informs that is how we

00:42:19.620 believe we are called or not called. And so when we think about our purpose, like, again,

00:42:25.300 from my standpoint, because everybody can clearly understand that I kind of read things to a

00:42:30.160 Jesus lens or not, not kind of, I do like we're to love God or love God, love ourselves

00:42:35.880 and love people. We are to go into make disciples. We are to spread the good news of Christ. We are

00:42:41.220 to be a lighthouse of his word. We're to live lives that are of integrity, that magnify that

00:42:47.640 to the best of our ability. And where we fall short, we give thanks for the grace of God.

00:42:53.560 And then calling is something different. Calling is, and calling adapts. Calling, it shifts over

00:42:59.200 time with our experiences, with our faults, with our successes, with life in general. And that's

00:43:06.820 where like the things that we love, there's a, there's an illustration called Ikigai. It's

00:43:10.660 where the things that you love, the things that you're good at, and then what is valuable to

00:43:14.480 marketplace all kind of reach a center point. Now, does everyone find out and discover what

00:43:19.260 that is? No. Does everyone lean into it? No. That's why the best ideas are in the graveyard.

00:43:25.240 So I think that especially now, what's been very interesting with AI and all the influx of

00:43:31.840 technology recently is it feels like because we've equated purpose so much with just what we do

00:43:38.260 or calling so much with just a vocation. Like for, for me, a big part of my, like what I feel called to

00:43:45.520 is the, the long-term restoration of girls rescued from sex trafficking, 11 to 17, 2 million kids

00:43:52.940 trafficked annually. We have less than 600 beds in the United States for kids to receive long-term care.

00:43:59.240 From long-term care, from trauma resulting from sexual abuse, 600 beds across the nation.

00:44:07.660 What is that? 12 per, 12 per state on average? Yeah. We have some, a part of the largest organization

00:44:15.500 in the country called the Demand Project. It's on my website. And we're, we're the largest restoration

00:44:21.560 facility in the country. Ryan, we have 30 beds. So part of my calling is to help more of these girls.

00:44:27.700 Has nothing to do with what I do. But when I understand what, what God has burdened me with,

00:44:32.660 because I had a niece who was assaulted to death. I have a sister who was, was, whose life was taken.

00:44:39.720 It changes things. So now like money on like selfish. I want to make as much money as I can

00:44:45.760 as much. I want, I, I want to make as much resources possible. Do I need more stuff, bro?

00:44:52.100 I drive a 95 power stroke and 89 Bronco. I love that Bronco too, man. That's an amazing vehicle.

00:44:57.380 Well, what more could a man want in his life? Y'all can keep your Lambo. It's just give me, 0.99

00:45:01.720 give me land. Um, but, uh, I don't need anything. I'm so blessed. I don't, I don't need anything else.

00:45:08.380 What I need is resource so that we can, we can build more facility. We can get more of these girls 1.00

00:45:14.600 help. That's it. So we can pray and prayer answers things. Absolutely. But 99% of the problems that

00:45:22.080 you're looking to eradicate are solved with money. And so when we talk about calling, yeah, like

00:45:27.160 calling isn't necessarily what you do. It's what's affected by what you do. It's what keeps you up.

00:45:32.840 It's what you can align with. And so many people, they're so worried about solving the money

00:45:36.300 conversation and they're so knee deep in their own stories about their own life and worrying about

00:45:41.500 things that don't matter. And, you know, as Byron Katie would say, living in others business or

00:45:45.980 God's business instead of their own business, that they never get out of their own self-insulated

00:45:50.660 bubble long enough to be able to even see what's going on in the world and how they might be able

00:45:55.440 to impact that. And again, who they'd have to become in order for that to happen. And I think that

00:46:00.620 with, again, what I was saying earlier with technology, I think we're moving so fast that I think it's

00:46:04.880 really hard to even understand and get very, very clear on what that looks like right now,

00:46:09.800 because it feels like when we equate purpose with the work of our hands and things that we do,

00:46:14.580 things are being automated and advanced so quickly, like it's outpacing our ability to even comprehend

00:46:19.860 where we fit into all of that. We don't even know right now. So it's just a very interesting time,

00:46:25.180 more than I think any other in history to be alive. But yes, I do believe all of us are called because

00:46:30.020 I do believe that Genesis 1 26 says that God has called us with dominion over the birds of the air,

00:46:37.760 the fish of the sea and the beasts of the land. Now that was jacked up by Adam, reconciled through

00:46:41.920 the blood of Christ. And so that mandate was made whole again. And so when you recognize that we're

00:46:46.720 the ones who are called to steward everything on this earth, then yes, we are all called because

00:46:50.280 we're all called to that reconciliation. And we're all called to bear the kingdom here on earth as it is

00:46:54.860 in heaven. A lot of questions. Um, some, some temporal, some spiritual, um, maybe I'll, I'll, I'll hold off

00:47:04.380 on some of the spiritual conversation for later, but, but I, I do have a thought on, well, not a thought,

00:47:10.420 a question about something you said earlier with regards to judgment. This is one that I've always had

00:47:15.340 a hard time wrapping my head around. Uh, you know, a lot of people say it's not your job to judge and

00:47:20.260 let Christ judge, but isn't it our job to judge? Like, aren't we supposed to judge? Yeah. Like

00:47:26.420 we're supposed to judge behavior. We're supposed to judge our friends. We're supposed to judge,

00:47:30.360 uh, what we ought to be doing versus what we ought not to be doing. Like, I don't understand why we

00:47:35.840 get so hung up on this concept of judgment. Uh, one, because we don't want to be judged. Um, so

00:47:41.700 I think that's probably the biggest part. That's actually, I mean, that's biblical too, is it,

00:47:47.820 you know, the idea is, and you could, you could quote it better than I could, but, um, you know,

00:47:52.980 if you're going to be judging of other people, you're going to be held to the same standard by

00:47:56.540 which you judge others. Well, yeah, it's, it's the, it's the scripture of, you know, like

00:48:01.360 you're looking at the splinter and somebody's eye one neglecting the plank in your own. And I think

00:48:07.100 that's where judgment gets a little sketchy is when like not all criticism is qualified. And so

00:48:15.120 make sure that if you're going to hold someone to a standard that you're adhering to it as well. 1.00

00:48:20.400 Otherwise you're a Pharisee and you're a hypocrite. Uh, which is why I try to have as much grace for 0.98

00:48:25.520 people as possible. Can I judge them on their actions? Absolutely. Can I make assessments based

00:48:30.340 on, yeah, based on the things that they say? Absolutely. Um, do I judge the content of their

00:48:36.560 soul? That's not for me to judge. I can't judge that. Um, I can't even judge sometimes their

00:48:42.800 motivation because I don't know the stories that are playing out in their mind. I don't know their

00:48:46.700 traumas. I don't know all those things, but I can judge the actions and we can hold accountable the

00:48:52.020 actions and we can hold accountable the things, uh, that we believe are not to the standard that we

00:48:57.960 should be adhering to as well. Otherwise, again, uh, it, it comes back to like take care of your own

00:49:04.800 life. Pretty sorry. Telling me how to take care of mine. The other thing I'll say, and I think this is

00:49:08.780 important for anyone is that like anytime you're trying to hold someone accountable to something,

00:49:14.100 right? So not just outright judging them and condemning them, but judging against who, you

00:49:20.860 know, they can be, which is one of the greatest acts of love and then holding them to a standard

00:49:25.320 accountability that isn't asked for always feels like a threat. Yeah. It's unsolicited feedback.

00:49:30.340 Nobody loves that. Nobody loves that. And so when, when there's not that great level of trust,

00:49:35.360 and even sometimes when there is, you know, your spouse calls you out for something. So then you

00:49:39.680 snap back with something cause you gotta be passive aggressive back. Um, you know, none of that is

00:49:45.840 healthy and all it does is perpetuate more hiding and more shame and more needing to prove. And, and

00:49:53.080 the ego, the ego can never receive proper criticism and accountability cause it's always just too busy

00:49:58.940 trying to prove itself right. Yeah. I mean, that's, I think that's one of the biggest things that men deal

00:50:02.540 with and face is just overcoming their ego. You said what the ego can never face criticism

00:50:08.120 accurately. What did you say? Receive accountability. Yeah. It can't face criticism or receive

00:50:13.500 accountability cause it's too busy proving itself. Right. How does a man overcome that? I mean,

00:50:17.780 every man is, is arrogant and egotistical in some way to varying degrees, but how does a man begin to

00:50:22.380 overcome that? Because sometimes it's even hard to acknowledge. Like we, I I've had conversations

00:50:26.960 today where I'm like, I'm definitely right. And I don't know, like, am I right? Or is that my ego

00:50:31.920 speaking? Yeah. Yeah. Am I objectively right? Or just subjectively? Objectively. Because I don't

00:50:37.880 know. I'm like, I know. Um, I do. I think it's a daily dance genuinely book. I wish like, I think

00:50:48.900 if I had the exact answer on how to kill the ego, I think Ryan holiday has a book on it. He goes, the

00:50:54.860 enemy. Um, and he made a lot of money off that book. If you can figure out how to destroy the ego,

00:51:00.080 you should write a book cause you'll be a billionaire. Uh, but I do believe that understanding

00:51:05.280 who you are and whose you are, recognizing your own fallacies and faults, uh, recognizing the ways

00:51:11.400 in which God has brought you out of certain storms and the ways that you've brought yourself out and

00:51:16.800 the ways that other brothers have brought you out in the ways that others didn't judge you and the ways

00:51:22.600 in which you were able to hold them accountable, that they should be able to hold you accountable.

00:51:25.780 Now, I think it's, I believe it's taking yourself seriously, but not so seriously that you think

00:51:31.920 you're infallible. I mean, you, you brought up a great point with Ryan holiday. Like he wrote a book

00:51:36.740 on it and still his ego gets in the way. You know, I, I watched that guy, I watched that guy show up

00:51:42.400 during COVID and the ego came out and he pretended as if he knew better than other people. And he wanted

00:51:47.240 to make decisions on other people's behalf. And, um, that's ego. Like you don't know. And yet you act as

00:51:52.700 if you do, it's hard when you even you're the quote unquote authority on it. It still is so

00:51:58.520 insidious and so pervasive in every aspect of our lives that it's really hard to tell at times.

00:52:05.520 Well, and it's so funny because I'll, I'll get, I do interviews quite a bit and conversations quite a

00:52:11.360 bit. And if there's just not, if there's a topic that someone was talking about that I don't know,

00:52:15.220 I'm not going to try and BS you. I just don't know. I'm not the right person for that. You should go

00:52:19.380 talk to this person. They're going to be far more qualified to answer that question. Anything I say

00:52:23.100 is me just going to be trying to, you know, pull some sort of word salad out and make myself sound

00:52:29.500 smart. I would just rather not do that because then ultimately I'm going to look like an idiot 1.00

00:52:33.820 because I am an idiot in regards to what it is you're asking. So I just rather, I think when you 0.98

00:52:38.740 can recognize you're not an expert in everything, but what you are passionate about, double down on

00:52:43.660 and be convicted. And there are certain things that are non-negotiables for me. There are probably

00:52:48.800 certain things that are non-negotiables for you. Like these are not things that I'm going to bend

00:52:52.280 on. These are beliefs that are deeply rooted in me that are truth that may not be truth to someone

00:52:56.940 else. It is not my ego. It is my soul. And so I'm not here to prove something to you. I'm not here to

00:53:03.640 strong arm you into anything. Even, you know, I'm a part of a, I facilitate quite a few masterminds

00:53:09.700 around the country and a lot of different belief systems and belief structures. And I'm interested in all

00:53:16.600 of them. I don't believe them just like they don't believe mine, but we have the best conversations

00:53:21.460 when you're not trying to convince someone that you're right. That's an ego. Yeah. When you,

00:53:27.500 when you say that there's things that maybe you wouldn't answer because you don't know what,

00:53:31.340 what do you want to know specifically, even just this year that you don't already know? Are there

00:53:36.640 things that you're working on where you think, man, I could really focus on this.

00:53:40.160 Dude, I'm trying to get taller, but that hasn't worked for 41 years.

00:53:44.340 I think there's a surgery where you can extend your, your, the bones in your, in your legs,

00:53:49.160 but you'll be hung up for 12, 18 months, I'm sure. Yeah. Or longer. I'm like, I'm good. I'm all

00:53:55.740 right. Dude. So there's, there's quite a few things. Um, I, one, biblically, I'm just, I'm always

00:54:02.040 interested there. So I'm always going to be studying that. Uh, that's been a part of my life,

00:54:06.200 you know, academically studying for about 20 years now. So, uh, that's always going to be something

00:54:10.740 I'm very interested in AI right now. Uh, you know, I'm on the board of an energy company.

00:54:16.160 And so I'm part of the, the, the dev, uh, side of all of our AI infrastructure and team.

00:54:21.860 And that has been very, very interesting. Uh, built my own AI dev team now. And so we're,

00:54:27.560 we're building out different utilities and, uh, I need a team because I don't code. Um, I just ideate

00:54:34.260 and we create and then we refine and then we patent and put to market. Um, what is, what is

00:54:41.300 very interesting is how fast things are progressing. And so I'm just very, very interested in how

00:54:46.060 all of that plays together and what that's going to do for humanity moving forward, what

00:54:50.460 that does for the job market moving forward, how all of us will need to adapt, how I can

00:54:55.880 ensure that, you know, any of the guys that are in my circle, making sure that they have

00:54:59.940 all the resources that they need, uh, in digestible formats to be able to understand what's happening

00:55:05.120 around them, whether they choose to embrace it or not, you embrace it, you get left behind

00:55:09.300 it's here anyway. Um, so that's very, very interesting to me right now. Um, uh, outside of

00:55:16.540 that, uh, I'm always interested in how to become a better communicator. Um, that has been something

00:55:22.700 that I've done for you in the past 25 years and that's not going to slow down. Um, but other

00:55:27.500 than that, man, what I'm really interested in learning, like more than anything, um,

00:55:33.140 I have a son and a stepson. They're both, they're 10 and 11. And I have a nephew who's

00:55:38.080 nine and a nephew who's seven and asking them as many questions and just getting to know

00:55:44.040 them and getting to learn every day is a new day to be a dad. And, uh, every day is a new

00:55:50.120 day to instill something or to get something else right. I think a lot of times as dads, we

00:55:55.200 look at the things that we get wrong. Like I, I could have spent more time. I could have been

00:55:58.420 more present. I could, when you start focusing on what you can do, right. And, and where you

00:56:02.380 really like, man, I think I really got that one. I think today was a good one. I, I think they're

00:56:07.840 going to remember that one. Focus on that and focus on those little moments of memories,

00:56:12.220 recognizing you just never, they're, they're as young as they're ever going to be today.

00:56:15.940 And consequently, they're also the oldest they've ever been. So they're thinking new

00:56:19.340 things just like you are and, uh, man, learning them and walking with them and, uh, just the

00:56:28.000 experience of, of fatherhood and experience of being a husband. And, uh, even, you know,

00:56:32.640 my co-parents, they have four little girls and, uh, they're like our kids as well. And so even just

00:56:38.220 being around them and learning them and understanding how like their brains work so much differently.

00:56:43.620 And, um, the experience for me is what I think I'm taking in. You know, I've read enough personal

00:56:49.080 development books. I've read enough self-help books. I read enough books on masculinity. I've

00:56:53.100 read enough books on, you know, all these different things. If anything, I probably would,

00:56:57.380 would take up a little bit more philosophy. Um, and, uh, better than that. Yeah. I've got enough

00:57:03.520 books behind me to, to give anyone a PhD and, uh, knowing everything you need to know about yourself

00:57:09.580 until the next book comes out. And then you recognize you didn't know anything,

00:57:13.140 which is how they get you. You're good enough until you're not purpose is nothing more than

00:57:16.700 a commodity sold by personal development in the church. Cody, I appreciate you, brother. This

00:57:21.640 has been an awesome conversation. Um, yeah, I think we might need to run it back and I think

00:57:25.860 we need to be more connected. I, uh, we've, uh, we've always been loosely connected, you know,

00:57:30.840 but I think we need to be more connected and I'd love to get together face to face in person and

00:57:34.920 go on a hunt or an activity or something together, man. It'd be awesome to do that together.

00:57:38.320 Yeah. It'd be, it'd be an honor. Genuinely. I've, uh, I've always respected you. I've always

00:57:44.020 respected the man that you are. And, uh, I've always, I've always looked forward to the day

00:57:47.960 where, where we would be friends at that level. I always saw it. And again, I believe it's always

00:57:52.160 the timing thing. And we, we both had different things going on. We both went through like very

00:57:56.800 separate seasons. And, um, I think we're at a point now where again, there's that resurrection

00:58:01.780 piece of like some things needed to die and some things needed to be settled and new life

00:58:06.880 needed to be born and new opportunity and new promise and new favor, fresh favor. And, uh,

00:58:12.720 and now we get to, to build a real friendship out of the best parts of ourselves.

00:58:17.500 I think, uh, I think, yeah, you come into seasons where both people are ready and aligned and

00:58:22.060 I think it could be something great. So let's, uh, let's not pay that lip service. Let's actually

00:58:26.080 do it. Uh, tell the guys where to connect with you, learn more about what you've got going on

00:58:30.320 and find out more.

00:58:31.400 Oh yeah. I mean, I'm pretty easy to find on social media. Just please follow it's Cody Jefferson.

00:58:36.660 Just follow the blue check because if not, somebody's going to try and sell you crypto

00:58:39.900 and that ain't me. Uh, just letting you know.

00:58:42.840 I actually had a friend today who, um, you might know him Connor Beaton with Mantox. Do

00:58:47.540 you know who Connor is?

00:58:48.500 Yeah.

00:58:49.280 So Connor put out a post or a reel or something story, um, where I guess somebody on Tik TOK

00:58:56.280 had cloned his likeness and was giving a wet, a daily weather report using their own,

00:59:03.280 their own, uh, voice, but using Connor's image. This stuff's getting crazy, man. It's getting

00:59:08.900 out of hand.

00:59:09.320 Yeah, dude. AI's getting weird, dude. It's so odd. And then, uh, you can also find me

00:59:14.780 at Cody jefferson.com. Very, very simple.

00:59:17.340 Awesome. We'll sync it all up.

00:59:18.700 Yeah, brother.

00:59:19.120 Brother, I appreciate you. Let's, like I said, let's not pay that lip service. Let's

00:59:21.940 actually make it happen.

00:59:22.800 Let's do it. I'm in.

00:59:23.620 All right, man. Catch you soon.

00:59:24.380 All right, gentlemen, Mr. Cody Jefferson. I hope you enjoyed it. I love Cody's energy.

00:59:30.460 We've been friends for almost a decade now. And every time I talk with this man, I'm inspired

00:59:35.260 and motivated to do more than I am currently doing. So make sure you connect with him on

00:59:40.600 the gram, on X, on Facebook, on YouTube, wherever you're doing your social media stuff. And if

00:59:45.240 you would just take a screenshot right now, real quick and, uh, post it as a, uh, a story

00:59:50.380 if you want, or in your feed and let other people know what you're listening to. I really

00:59:55.380 feel like as men, if we have access to tools and information and resources, then we ought

00:59:59.540 to share that with the people who will be impacted positively by it. And again, speaking

01:00:03.980 of those tools and resources, the iron council, our accountability program is up and running

01:00:08.740 and open for enrollment for another few days. So if you're going to do it, now's the time

01:00:12.860 to do it. Get some accountability and improving your life. Head to order a man.com slash iron

01:00:17.620 council. All right, guys, you have your orders for the week. Uh, we will be back tomorrow

01:00:23.960 for our ask me anything until then go out there, take action and become the man you are meant

01:00:29.120 to be.

01:00:33.640 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your

01:00:37.940 life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order

01:00:42.720 of man.com.

01:00:47.620 Thank you.

Order of Man - June 24, 2025

CODY JEFFERSON ｜ Build a Life That Calls to You

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