CODY JEFFERSON ｜ Build a Life That Calls to You
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Summary
Cody Jefferson is on a mission to help men find their purpose and live a life they re called to live. He is a father, entrepreneur, a life and business coach, and a former pastor where his transformation began after facing a very public divorce. He lost 8 family members in a span of a year and suffered a very life-threatening septic episode in 2016. After 13 years in ministry, he often sacrificed his own well-being for his church, but he committed to rebuilding his life. He focuses on health and purpose and moving beyond his identity or role as a fixer. Today, he s the founder of Embrace the Lion and the Scale Method, and he s helped thousands of high-achieving men align their careers, business, and relationships with fulfilling relationships, and spiritual, emotional well being. He s also recognized as a powerful keynote speaker.
Transcript
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Too many men are wandering around aimlessly through life, doing just enough in their existence
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to make it through one more day. That's part of the reason I founded Order of Man and bring
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in incredible men like my guest today, Cody Jefferson. He is on a mission to help men find
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their purpose and live a life they're called to live. Today, Cody and I talk about why so many
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men feel they're always behind and never enough, the pressures a man faces daily and how to relieve
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them correctly, the source of joy and peace in a man's life, how your body will tell you a lot
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about your attitude and efforts in life, why men should focus on who they are, not what they do,
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and so much more. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly
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chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You
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are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is
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who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,
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you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, welcome to the Order of Man podcast. Glad that you are tuning
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in. Purpose, passion, callings, these are all topics that a lot of men obviously are very interested
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in, and it's part of the reason I started Order of Man and was introduced to a man by the name of
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Cody Jefferson years and years ago, probably eight, nine years ago when we became friends
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through our own journey. So we've got a good one lined up for you today. Before we get into it,
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not only do I want to thank you for making this possible and being here, but I also want to mention
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Guys, let me introduce you to Cody. He is a father. He's an entrepreneur, a life and business coach.
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He's also a former pastor where his transformation really began after facing a very public divorce.
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He lost eight family members in a span of a year. He also suffered a very life-threatening
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septic episode in 2016. And following 13 years in his ministry, he often sacrificed his own
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well-being for his church. I think a lot of us can attest to sacrificing ourselves. But he committed
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to rebuilding his life. He focuses on health and purpose and moving beyond his identity or his role
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as a quote-unquote fixer. Today, he's the founder of Embrace the Lion and the Scale Method, and he's
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helped thousands of high-achieving men, business leaders, and entrepreneurs align their careers,
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with fulfilling relationships, and spiritual health, and emotional well-being. He's also
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recognized as a powerful keynote speaker. He's an advisor, and he does a great job at combining
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faith-based leadership with strategy around performance to help men scale without sacrificing
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what really matters most in their lives. Cody, what's up, man? So good to see you. I can't believe
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we've known each other for as long as we have, what, eight, nine years, and we've never done a
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podcast together. Well, no time like the present. Lord had his plan. That's what I think. It's like
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it comes together at just the right time, right? That's it. I mean, I feel like that's been the
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story of my life. So I'm glad to be here. I've supported you close and far for a number of years,
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and I'm just glad to chop it up, dude. Yeah, man. When you say, well, when we were talking about
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he has a plan for us, it's the right time. It comes together at the right time. I know you're
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a believer. I know you have a lot of faith in that. Tell me a little bit about that, because I think
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there's a lot of guys out there who, you know, they struggle, and I have too, quite honestly, with
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wanting our own stuff to work out, but it doesn't work on our timeline. So tell me a little bit about
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that. Man, isn't that the conundrum, especially being somebody who feels like they're called to
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more. It feels like there's a call on your life to be more and to do more and to have more and to
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impact more. And it feels like a big rushing to wait game. And I think, man, I don't think we're
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so far off from Israel back in the biblical times of Exodus when, you know, they find themselves
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circling the same mountain because they think they understand what God wants for their lives, but
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they always equated that with a place. So they're always looking for this promised land. They're
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always looking for this place that God's going to deliver them to. And we read later on in Exodus
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that God meets Moses on a mountain. He's like, listen, I'll deliver you the land. I'll give you
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everything that you want. I'm not going to go with you though. So my presence isn't going to be there.
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Yeah. He actually calls them a stiff necked people. And because they're building altars, they're doing a
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lot of things to try and reconcile the fact that they continue to wander. And so he goes back and
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they, again, they find themselves in a position of saying, nah, if God's not with us, then we don't
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want it. I think what I've recognized for myself and somebody who has had pursuits and who still
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has pursuits and has a timeline that I would really love for things to work on is that one, there never
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really is an arrival that the promised land that we're always looking for isn't ever a place. It's
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always the presence of God in our lives. And so I think that's what we miss sometimes is we're so busy
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trying to get to the next thing that we don't wholly take in what it is that God's doing right
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now, even in the mess of things, even when things aren't going really well and we'd rather go around
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it or above it or below it. There's a book I used to read to my son when he was a kid called going on
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a bear hunt. And it was like, you just got to go through it. And I think it's in going through those
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things and in reconciling that things don't always work on our timelines that we find that the promise
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was always the presence. Yeah. I'm trying to wrap. Well, first of all, I want to know what that book
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is because I've got kids. I want to read, I want to read that book. So you and I can't figure that
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out. It's called going on a bear hunt. And that's what it's called. Okay. Easy enough going on a bear
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hunt. It's a kid's book. It sounds like. Yeah. So I'll have to check that out. Um, yeah, yeah,
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it is hard because we all get arrogant. We all get braggadocious and have, uh, we're full of pride at
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times and we think, you know, our plan is better. Um, but looking back on my own shortcomings and pitfalls,
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I guess the key differentiator is what do you do in those moments? Cause a lot of men will use those
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moments to, uh, retreat to self-sabotage, to play the victim game. And then there's other men, you
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know, maybe it's the Pareto principle where it's 20% of those guys who will use those moments and
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opportunities to learn and grow and develop and be something more than they were in the past.
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Well, I think so much of it, I mean, I believe you would probably say the same thing.
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So much of it comes in having a really solid circle and I'm not talking about all the people.
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I think one of the great tragedies of personal development and the whole influence movement
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and all of us, you know, being called to cultivate influence in some way and you can't exist without
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social media and things is you start to really equate like your second chapter with somebody
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else's 32nd chapter. And you feel this perpetual, always being behind and never being enough,
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especially when as for a lot of us young men, a lot of our self-worth was predicated on our
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usefulness and how well we were able to accomplish things and solve problems. And so then when you
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consistently feel behind, it's important to remember that, I mean, you're in your own race.
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Like there is, I look at guys around me and some are further, some are further behind,
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but it's all, it doesn't matter. Like I'm just, I'm called to mind. And so I think when we can get
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around other men who, who can understand that, who can hold us to it, but you know, as well as I
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do, especially in leadership, it's really hard to allow yourself to be open in those conversations
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because you're the one who's supposed to be stewarding something forward. And you're the one
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that somebody is always coming to someone who's always supposed to have the solutions. And if you're
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not careful and if you choose to be seen rather than to be known, which you can be in the deepest
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of circles and still choose to only be seen, you self-sacrifice the, the calling on your life to
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the sabotage, uh, of your own inconsistencies and, and your own insecurities. And, uh, I've seen it
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in my own life. I've seen it in friends' lives, uh, where you can be the one that's front and front
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and center and behind the scenes. Like you're so busy trying to save everybody else that you forget
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to save yourself in the process. I feel like I, I really do feel that deeply personally, but when you
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say that choose to be seen rather than to be known, that's an interesting phrase. And I'm kind of
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processing that a little bit. It's hard for, that's all of us. Yeah. It's all of us, man. We, it is.
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Yeah. We need to be known. Well, we need to be influential. Yeah. When I don't mean that, I mean,
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like known intimately by people around you, like we're a culture that's desperate to be known. We want
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people to know us, but we're so afraid of what people might think. We're so afraid of how we might let
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people down. We're so afraid that if the facade comes off and you actually really knew me,
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you wouldn't actually love the person behind what I'm doing because I have my own inconsistencies.
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So I'm just going to let you, I'll settle for being seen, which is the front facing social media,
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social platform, raw, raw leadership influence. And I'm going to keep you at arm's length because
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if you really knew me, there's some darkness here and there's some frustration, which is part of the
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reason I lead. Look, I mean, let's, let's be honest though. There's some truth to that. Like there,
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there's some validity to the concept that if you let people know who you really are,
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they're going to think less of you. Um, they're not going to follow you. Like, so where do you,
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where do you find the balance between being known versus being seen and also maintaining your frame
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as a man? Yeah. Well, I can tell you how I've done it that hasn't worked in the past. Uh, but I can
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tell you how it works for me now and how it works for me now is, uh, one, uh, I've removed every vice
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that could take me out, uh, from, from any part of my life. And that has been a labor and has been
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harder some days than others. Um, and I, I think we probably, you know, share some, some similar
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paths of, of things that we've navigated through and walked through that, uh, needed to be eradicated
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from our lives. I mean, let's talk about alcohol abuse for me. That was alcohol for me. Yeah. And so
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I just reconciled, like, I, I don't use like sober language. Cause I'm like now, cause then you're
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counting days and I don't want to count days. I just want to say, it's just not who I am. So it's
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just not what I do. And so it's more of an identity confirmation that, uh, and so just eradicate that.
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I adhere to some very strong daily habits, but also I know what God's purpose for my life is. And I
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think when you know what your purpose is and you know what you're called to every day,
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it eradicates all of the anxiety and the depression and the frustration and the not being enough.
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Cause you recognize that it's not yours anyway. And the greatest thing that I, I'm going to steward
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in my life is my family, my kids, um, my wife, my co-parent, um, and doing that very, you know,
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well and graciously. And so when you recognize, I think I just had to recognize that it's not just
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about me. I think we get, when you start hiding and you start getting into, for me, you know,
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self-medicating and isolating. And then, you know, then you push everyone away cause you don't want
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them to smell it. Or like, so you just create fights that don't even exist. So people aren't
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around you. It was just, it's just the oddest thing that like, you're actually doing the very
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things that like you don't want and you don't need, um, to pacify this, uh, this real demon
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and, um, getting rid of that, whatever your vice is, uh, that was a big piece of it for me.
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Yeah. I mean, I think that's, I think that's been my own personal journey, uh, regarding what
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has kept me. It's a, it's a barrier, right? It's a wall or something that keeps you between
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you and the people that you love and care about your kids, um, your spouse, uh, a future potential
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partner, which obviously that's the situation you're in, or even just the people you're trying
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to serve, like a movement like you're doing or what I'm doing.
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Yeah. Well, not only that, but I think it is absolutely that. And I think we just don't talk
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about the, the pressure that a man faces when he is called to more in the way that there's
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self-worth behind that. And you'll self-sabotage, not because you're really afraid of failing
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because you're already doing that behind closed doors. It is more that the, the fear of who do I
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become in the process? Like, what will I have to give up? Who, what associations will
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I have to let die? And how do I keep this up? Am I going to do this forever? Is this how
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I'm setting my family up for the rest of our lives? Can I do this for it? Can I sustain
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this? Am I going to be relevant? What if I'm not, it's almost this, like, what if I succeed
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that, that is a big, that was a big hindrance for me of almost like a Jonah in the whale of
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like, I don't want to go there. I know you want me to, I know you're calling me, but
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like, I don't even know if I'm worth that. Well, there was this, uh, there's this, this
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famous quote from, I believe it's Marianne Williamson who talks about our deepest fear
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is not that we'll fail, but that will succeed. And it's been hard for me to wrap my head around
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that. But as you talk about this idea that like, I don't think people are afraid of success,
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but when you said that, that really resonated with me. You said people aren't necessarily afraid
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of the success that they'll achieve, but what will they have to give up and who will they
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need to become? And is it sustainable? So like everybody wants to achieve success. Like
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everybody wants to have a great marriage. Everybody wants to have financial abundance,
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but then you start linking that with the work they'll have to do and how long they'll have
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to do it for. Maybe that's the fear, not the success, but the sacrifice required to have
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it. Yeah. It's the upkeep. It's the, it's the, I mean, you even look at guys who are just
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in marketplace who aren't running anything, uh, from like a business perspective and they're
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all panicking and having like thoughts like, okay, what is AI going to replace? And what
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is this going to replace? And am I going to be just another commodity? And what happens
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when the things that I've devoted my life to with my hands are no longer valuable in marketplace
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because now they're all outsourced and we pushed them to the lowest bidder and we have,
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we don't have any loyalty to the work of hard hands and the common man. Well, and you have
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people like us who aren't building things and then it's like, yeah. And then how do I keep
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you employed? And how do I, when market is shifting this way, like, how am I going to keep these
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people? How, like, I've got families now that rely on full-time salaries for me. And so like,
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there's just a lot of pressure that comes from growing something substantial and meaningful
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that I think is beautiful. It's, I love entrepreneurship. I love capitalism. And also there's a flip side
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of the coin and the pressure that comes along with it that we don't really talk about. We just talk
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about the Lambos and like the cool stuff that you get and the parties that you get invited to and all
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the cool content you get to create on the backside of it. But interestingly enough, that goes away.
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It's very fickle. That goes away very quickly when you start to falter or fail. It's not that people
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ever cared about you. It's what they cared about. You could, you could represent or give to them.
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Yeah. Well, and I even found that to be true. And again, it's not that people are bad
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in any way, shape or form. That was true when I was in ministry. Sure. Sure. Yeah. But when I was
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in ministry and I got really sick and I'd been making hospital visits for 15 years as a pastor,
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and I'd recognized nobody came to see me when I was septic as a pastor, that was a, it's okay. But
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it's an interesting thing of like me, that's what led me into starting coaching is that because I
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recognize like, man, if men don't start taking care of themselves, like you'll, you'll,
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you'll give everybody enough lead rope to hang you with it. And not because they're intentionally
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trying to do you harm, but because at the end of the day, most people are looking out
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for themselves and looking at how you can be a catalyst in their change, not how they can
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be a catalyst in yours. It's the difference between being a here I am person and a there
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you are person. Most people are here. I am people, not because they're bad people, but
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just because of survival mechanisms and, you know, being in that type of mindset.
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Well, so what does it actually mean to take care of yourself? Because I know that's a
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question. I know it's a topic a lot of people hear and, and I think a lot of the times it's
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paid lip service, like focus on yourself, be the king, you know, everybody else needs last
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or whatever, like whatever the things are we hear. Um, which I don't, I don't totally agree
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with, but I also do agree with the idea that you need to take care of yourself in order to
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serve others. What does that actually look like in practicality?
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Yeah. Well, one, uh, I just, I want to set the record straight. Nobody listening to this,
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watching this, you're not a King. You are a dude who has a mortgage in the suburbs. Let's
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just, let's just be clear. Like I believe there's one King and I serve him and that's it. I'll
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never call myself a King. Um, that is, uh, it's cute though. It's, it's, it's good for marketing.
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Um, we like to call ourselves a lot of names. Yeah. Alphas. Yeah. Yeah. Let's refer to ourselves
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as certain animals and things. Um, but at any rate, how do, you know, how do I found peace and
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how do I help our guys find peace? Um, and how do we, how do we take care of ourselves? And so
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for me, it starts with recognize that I'm not those things, but I serve the one who is.
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And when I can recognize that and I wake up and I start every day thanking God that I'm alive again
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and that he's, uh, give me another opportunity to steward what he's called me to effectively.
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Um, that's a real gift. Uh, I roll over and I kiss my wife and I speak gratitude over her.
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She is, um, she's the greatest evidence of peace and God's reconciliation in my life. She is absolutely
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just the, the most peace filled individual you'll ever meet. And I walked through my house and I
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give thanks for my family, for my kids and that they're healthy. And I opened the word every single
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morning, not because it's cool to post it on social media and show people that you're reading. I've been
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doing this since I was eight years old with my grandfather. I don't have a big, extensive,
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long morning routine. I don't, you know, do half the things that the cool guys do, but I read my word
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every morning and, uh, I go for a morning walk. It's pretty peaceful. And by yourself or with your
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wife? I'm a man. I'm usually up around 3am. My wife, my wife's not really, she's not really even
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a Christian until like 9am. So, uh, I would ask, I would ask when she becomes a Christian and when
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she isn't, but I don't want to get too personal. So we'll, uh, we'll leave that question unasked.
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Yeah, no, no, about 9am. She, she, uh, she's good to go. She's not, she's not really a morning
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person. So she, I mean, she wakes up earlier than that, but it takes her some time to get her
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bearings about her. And I'm the opposite. Like I am, I'm up, I'm ready. I don't need an alarm.
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I'm excited every morning. Um, but the flip side is she can stay up till 1am and by 930, man,
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that's a spiritual gift. I'm just put a movie on and I'm asleep. I'm out. So it's just different
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strokes. Uh, but it, it does, uh, carry to the point that your spouse doesn't have to be just
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like you and doesn't, she has no desire to like build some empire and be like alpha feet. Like
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she just, she loves being my wife. She loves being my support. She loves being a mom. She, uh, uh,
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she is a quiet servant leader. Uh, but also she's German. So like, she can not be quiet for sure.
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Um, great judge of people. Um, I think I'm still in pastoral mentality where I just,
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I want to believe the best in everybody all the time. And, uh, even if somebody is wrong to me or
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anything else, like I still believe in God's grace and that reconciliation of peace. Um, she's not
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what, like she is, she has a good spidey sense and has been right about everyone. Um, women are
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pretty good at that actually. Yeah. Women are really good at that. That's another conversation
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for another time. But, uh, but, uh, yeah. So, you know, it's very simple for me. Um, but that's how,
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that's how I take care of myself. Uh, I know what I'm doing every single day. I don't go into any day
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not knowing what's on. And I run several entities now, a lot I don't talk about, but I got a lot of
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irons in the fire and, uh, coaching is, is one of them, but, uh, it's, it's, we're pretty deep in our
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endeavors. And so that requires a certain level of focus. And I think when you have that kind of focus
00:20:31.800
and you know what your call is and you know what you're doing every day and you prioritize the,
00:20:36.680
the things that actually matter or should matter to you. So for me, I'm done it. Uh, I'm done usually
00:20:42.160
at 3 PM every single day. My boys and I go fishing pretty much every day. Uh, we have practices most
00:20:49.120
every single night. I don't miss practices. Uh, I speak still, but I say no to most things because
00:20:54.300
it conflicts with sports schedules. I don't miss games. Um, I've just recognized I don't need any of
00:20:59.500
those things to build what I'm building. So I can build my own stage and platform online or through
00:21:04.260
events here. And so that's what we've done. Um, I didn't always get it right, Ryan. And, um,
00:21:10.120
I've recognized, man, like what brings me the most peace is being with my family and being with my
00:21:14.720
kids and showing them what's possible and showing them a man who's not perfect, showing them a man
00:21:19.120
who, um, but puts in, puts in a hundred percent effort every day. You said you didn't always get
00:21:23.760
it right. Can you be more specific? Well, sure. When I was, uh, so that's what led to, uh,
00:21:28.960
my divorce from Stetson's mom. Um, I was, I thought I was doing all the right things. I was
00:21:34.720
showing up for everything. I was a pastor at the time. I was showing up for everything. I was at all
00:21:39.660
the events for her. Uh, she was a coach, a dance coach. And, uh, uh, but I was so addicted to
00:21:47.680
affirmation in the church. I didn't really have any identity outside of my usefulness for people in the
00:21:52.100
church and solving problems. And, uh, and that comes from childhood. Uh, you know, I, I had an
00:21:58.360
upbringing where the adults in my life were, were really heavy on suicidal ideation on a daily basis
00:22:03.420
and assignment to talk people off ledges every single day. And as a six, seven, eight year old,
00:22:08.920
you don't really ever get to process your own emotions. And, uh, you recognize that the only
00:22:14.400
time that they're telling you, like they love you and you're amazing is on the backside of some real,
00:22:19.680
real, real trauma. And if you don't deal with that, then you grow up and I get a ministry,
00:22:24.540
which is amazing. I love ministry. And also it was a perfect catalyst for my deepest traumas and
00:22:32.160
insecurities to be made manifest. So nothing was ever good enough. I can never help enough people.
00:22:38.120
The thank yous, they just, they weren't enough. Um, and I was working for a church at the time that
00:22:45.360
was very toxic and very toxic in leadership. And so I was working like 18 hours a day. And, uh,
00:22:53.180
at, at around that time, my grandfather passed away, who was the patriarch of our family. So,
00:22:58.380
you know, I'm drinking at night, not to get drunk. I just need to, I just need, I can't shut it off.
00:23:02.040
I just need to shut it off. I feel that. And so I was, I'm just, I'm, you know, but that's how it
00:23:06.880
starts, right? Just like, ah, it's fine. I got this. It's not a big deal. Like everybody does this.
00:23:11.720
Everybody, like it's fine. Everybody else can do it. Um, and what happened is man is like,
00:23:18.600
I'm working 18 hours and then, um, just passing out and I'm present, but I'm not present. And we're
00:23:25.640
having a kid, we're having Stetson and I'm present, but I'm not present. And it got to the point where,
00:23:31.360
um, you know, he took his first steps in our house and I can't see them because I'm on a call with
00:23:37.380
somebody and they need me because it's the church and I'm a pastor and my job is God and God is my
00:23:41.700
job and I can't let it go. And, um, I missed so many of those moments in the beginning and I was
00:23:48.020
there because I, I prioritized the wrong thing. I, I sacrificed my soul and my family and everything
00:23:54.420
I loved on the altar of self, some self-perceived success of being needed. And, uh, it's caused me
00:24:00.840
to go sick in 2017. So, you know, we went through our divorce and then I lost a lot of people and that
00:24:05.840
was pretty traumatic, but I still showed up for the church. I was still there. I was still going 18 hours a
00:24:11.340
day. I just had Stetson half the time now. So I lost my identity as a full-time dad. I lost my identity
00:24:16.200
as a husband. This is all I have. I'm going, I'm going, I'm going, I'm going, I'm going. And it got to the
00:24:21.660
point where, you know, enough people started dying around me. You remember that season, like my 18 month
00:24:26.700
old niece was sexually assaulted to death. My 19 year old sister was strangled to death. My sister-in-law
00:24:31.800
committed suicide. My best friend committed suicide. My mentor died in a motorcycle accident. I had three
00:24:36.740
friends in ministry commit suicide. Like I'm leaving all these funerals while walking me through a
00:24:40.520
divorce and wrestling with identity that I don't even understand. And it was when I went septic in
00:24:45.940
2017, as a result of that, the cortisol just turned my body toxic. Oh, so it wasn't, it wasn't an
00:24:52.080
infection necessarily. It was just, uh, the, the result of stress or stress. Whoa. Stress and cortisol
00:24:58.160
caused, caused, caused infection. My body turned on itself. Oh my goodness. Okay. I didn't,
00:25:03.380
everybody was like, no, I'm built different. I'm like, yeah, everybody's like, I'm built different.
00:25:07.480
I'm like, you're built different until you're not, you're built different until your body keeps the
00:25:11.420
score. And I was going through so much trauma. Even now today, like I'm a hundred and I've led
00:25:15.520
144 funerals. I mean, that's how deep I am right now in 22 years. And, uh, it carries a fair amount
00:25:21.640
of trauma with it. It carries a fair amount of responsibility. I'm grateful for it today. I
00:25:24.960
recognize the gift that it is. Then I didn't, I didn't understand at all. And it was too much
00:25:29.800
trauma at once. So that's what caused me to go septic. And that's when I recognized,
00:25:33.540
and I didn't get it right again. It took me a few more years to get it right. Um, to recognize like
00:25:39.360
there's no greater gift than just being the best dad and best husband and best co-parent,
00:25:44.580
but co-parent and I are very, very close friends. We have a great, great relationship. We do all our
00:25:49.100
holidays together. We do everything together. And, uh, my wife and my, my co-parent are amazing
00:25:54.780
friends. And that is my greatest success is my family. Everything else is tinsel. So
00:25:59.480
I've just watched too many men fall. I mean, even now watching a lot fall, just trying to prop up
00:26:05.320
narratives and, uh, doors that were open that God, God never called them to walk through.
00:26:10.240
What do you mean by that? Doors that were open that God never called them to walk through.
00:26:14.020
So doors that were open that God never called you to walk through your charisma and talent will
00:26:17.480
open doors for you all the time. Everybody's going to want a piece of that. You say the right
00:26:21.060
things, you do the right things, you wear the right things, you know, the right people that'll
00:26:25.640
open so many doors for you. But if you're not careful, it'll be your ego that walks
00:26:29.060
through because God never called you to walk through some of those rooms. I, uh, I mean,
00:26:33.900
I won't, I won't name names. I just don't think that that's pertinent to the conversation.
00:26:37.340
But, uh, about three years ago, I was at, I was speaking in an event, um, big, all the
00:26:43.380
names we know. I was very grateful. I was super grateful to be there. I thought it was like,
00:26:47.180
you know, I'd be like, I made it, Brian. Yeah. It feels good. Yeah. Validation feels good.
00:26:51.440
Come on, let's go. And then in the back, like, and these guys are all talking Jesus from
00:26:55.640
the stage and I get in the back and like doing Coke, like serious. Is it the nineties? What
00:27:01.180
are we doing here? Whoa, really? And then talking about like, like women that were there that
00:27:05.880
were not their wives. And, uh, my videographer is with me and I'm so embarrassed. Like I'm,
00:27:13.640
and I, I'm covered in tattoos. I look pretty rugged. I'm, I'm the 41 year old who's like never
00:27:19.580
been to like a male club. I've never, like, I'm just not that guy. And, uh, and so I'm
00:27:26.220
not shocked cause I've been around it, but I was shocked because of what they were saying
00:27:30.720
in their platforms, but no big deal. You know, we're all adults here. Uh, we're just going
00:27:35.340
to leave and we'll, we'll just go back to the hotel. Not a big deal. Um, cause I have
00:27:39.940
some pretty strict boundaries for myself. Like I don't, I don't, you know, I don't drink,
00:27:43.500
so I don't drink at bars. I, I don't get in cars with women. I don't get in elevators with
00:27:48.380
women. I don't get in closed rooms with women. There's a lot of little things. And for me,
00:27:52.140
I just don't want to be around that. Cause if my son can't be around it, I don't want
00:27:54.960
to be around it. So we just go back to the hotel and, uh, I go to sleep and we're, we
00:28:00.100
have a, we're sharing a room. Or it was just your videographer. No, no, no, no. Got it.
00:28:03.820
It was just my videographer. It was one of my best friends. And, uh, I guess in the middle
00:28:09.180
of the night, I woke up, I woke up in a sweat and a full on panic attack and he didn't
00:28:14.280
know what was going on. So he jumped out of his bed and started praying for me.
00:28:17.480
And he's like, what's going on? And I was like, dude, I just had a dream. And in the
00:28:22.560
dream, uh, we're, we're all sitting at a VIP table together, me and everybody that's
00:28:27.660
here. That's, you know, VIP. And, uh, somebody comes up behind me and puts their hand on my
00:28:33.900
shoulder and whispers in my ear, you fought to sat at a table that my son would have turned
00:28:40.900
And yeah. And, uh, I mean, I was in tears. I was like, I was scared and, um, called my
00:28:47.680
wife and I was like, I, I'm going to speak, but we got to come home. We, we, I can't be
00:28:52.120
here. And so I haven't, you know, been around any of those guys since. And again, no judgment.
00:28:58.860
It is what it is. But I think if you, you got to be able to stand for something and recognize
00:29:04.960
where God is calling you and recognize that in God calling you, it's going to separate you
00:29:12.040
Men, as I do every week, I'm going to step away from the conversation very briefly. Uh,
00:29:15.920
we still have our brotherhood, the iron council open, and it's only going to be open for a
00:29:19.460
short time. Um, I really want to talk with you about accountability. Uh, not only is the
00:29:24.980
iron council, a brotherhood of strong driven men who are committed to mastering themselves.
00:29:30.340
Uh, it's also somewhere where you get a ton of accountability and that's the backbone of
00:29:37.300
the iron council because without accountability, all of our good intentions fade, um, excuses
00:29:43.020
creep in progress stalls. We've all been there. But when a man is held to a standard by the men
00:29:48.540
that he respects, he rises, he makes himself better. And in a way he forces himself to continue
00:29:54.440
to go on. Uh, accountability sharpens discipline. It exposes our blind spots. It ensures action.
00:30:01.500
It's not just talk. Uh, and in a world that encourages comfort and isolation and ease accountability
00:30:08.480
is what calls a man forward into strength and responsibility. And ultimately, and most importantly,
00:30:12.840
the results that he's going to experience. So I'm inviting you to join our exclusive brotherhood
00:30:17.980
where accountability is the backbone. You can do that at order of man.com slash iron council.
00:30:23.460
That's order of man.com slash iron council. Do that after this conversation for now,
00:30:28.700
let's get back to it with Cody. I think that's a pretty clear example. You had some premonition,
00:30:35.740
you had some divine inspiration. I would say, based on what I'm hearing you say, I don't want
00:30:38.800
to put words in your mouth, but I think there's also a lot of instances where we may not, it may
00:30:44.340
not be that clear to us. Yeah. And so how do you decide between what is, what is God speaking to you
00:30:50.260
versus like, whether he's opening that door or whether it's your own intuition, your own natural
00:30:55.780
desires of walking through that door and then convincing yourself it's a justifiable thing?
00:31:00.440
That's a great question. Sometimes it is more clear than others. And sometimes it's, it's,
00:31:05.340
it could be a really good opportunity, but you're not sure if it's an ordained opportunity
00:31:08.500
and if, if God's in the middle of it. And so for me, I have wise counsel. I have men who are much,
00:31:17.300
much further ahead than me in the game of business and finance. Most of them are in private equity and
00:31:21.500
venture capital, but amazing men of God who have been married 30 plus years are, they're like
00:31:28.360
incredibly hot. Their kids are all well-adjusted, amazing adult kids. They all come home for the
00:31:35.280
holidays. Like they all want to be together. It's not an act. It's not fake. And these are guys you,
00:31:41.540
they're, they're, they're not on the speaker circuit. They're not big influencers. They're none of
00:31:46.080
that. I met them through business dealings and through being on the board of, of a few companies.
00:31:53.060
And, uh, they're the, the guys that I call to bounce things off of and they'll pray with me
00:31:58.040
and they'll pray for me. Um, my wife is a prayer warrior. She prays with me and prays for me.
00:32:05.020
Um, I got a couple friends here that we can sit and we can pray together and they may not have the
00:32:09.980
right answer, but they can pray for clarity. And it takes it for me. It's, it's not that, Oh,
00:32:15.740
can't you just hear from God? Yeah. And I can also hear from myself sometimes. And I recognize that
00:32:22.500
it was always in a half truth of scripture that the enemy tempted Jesus in the desert.
00:32:28.540
And so if I'm tired, if I'm hungry, if, if I'm angry, if I'm any of these things,
00:32:34.360
then I might not be in the best right mind to be able to discern. So I want wise counsel around me.
00:32:41.620
So for me, that's what works for me. Yeah. I mean, wise counsel is having those men in my life.
00:32:46.100
I mean, that's powerful. I talk about that a lot, but, uh, so many men overlook that
00:32:50.960
because they don't know how to find it. It's difficult. It's challenging. They don't,
00:32:54.620
they won't let their ego down a little bit. There's a lot, there's a lot to that.
00:32:58.480
Which, you know, I hear you. Listen, I wasn't 2016. I was making $30,000 a year.
00:33:04.360
As a pastor, like we're talking balling on a freaking budget here. And I had to put myself
00:33:09.100
in the rooms. I, we met and I knew not a soul at the conference that we met at in 2000. I had
00:33:16.820
already known you for about a year. Like I was rocking all your swag. Your sticker's still on my
00:33:21.100
You sent me a picture just the other day. I can't believe eight years. That one's outdated. I got to
00:33:25.140
send you a new one. I don't, I want to send you a new one, but I'm like, no, keep that old one, dude.
00:33:28.920
I love that one. Listen, it's, it's, it's, it's not going anywhere. Like you, you know,
00:33:35.820
walking through that again, through that like season of sepsis and, and, and walking through
00:33:39.640
my whole rebuild season. Uh, I mean, I, we're talking about something else, but I do want to
00:33:44.080
like, I want to honor you, your friendship and belief in me got me through that season
00:33:49.480
genuinely. And you were probably in your own pit at that time. And you're probably struggling
00:33:53.580
with your own things at that time. But what you built in that season, I had never known
00:33:58.720
anything like it before. Everything in my world was so Christianese. And so just pray it away.
00:34:03.540
And like, you just got to believe more. I didn't know about the power of daily habits. I didn't know
00:34:07.800
about the power of stoicism. I didn't understand a lot of the methodologies and the principles that
00:34:13.360
you taught. And it was like drinking from a fire hydrant for a year and reading books like
00:34:18.540
no more, Mr. Nice guy. And then reading your books and like, it shifted everything for me
00:34:24.360
and man, I'd share about the group. I just absolutely loved it. And, but you know, when
00:34:29.300
we, and so I want to honor you with that. And that was a free room. That was a large Facebook
00:34:33.840
community that I was allowed to share in. I was allowed to share my thoughts in. I was allowed
00:34:38.500
to process in. I was allowed to get support from other men. I was able to support other men
00:34:42.760
and, uh, I, I wouldn't be where I'm at without that group. There's no way.
00:34:48.540
And it was such a pivotal part of my story. And we met at an event where I didn't know
00:34:54.900
anybody. I knew Brandon Duncan. That was it. And, uh, but it's putting yourself in those
00:35:00.460
kinds of rooms. I didn't have much money. I was flipping Harleys to make ends meet, but
00:35:06.200
I bought a ticket. I think Colby may comped me a ticket to go to the event, uh, cause I was
00:35:11.920
broke, but I went and in going, I got interviewed by Alan Taylor, which was crazy. Now Alan's
00:35:18.980
a dear friend. He's one that like, if I, if I need some insight, I can go to Alan. Alan
00:35:25.340
has been such a sage wisdom and such a dear friend and supportive of me over all these
00:35:29.800
years. And that's what I mean. If guys, if you'll just put yourself in the room, yeah,
00:35:34.760
you might have to, I've paid to play. I do. I like, I have no problem putting money where
00:35:39.820
I know you should quality conversations and things that are going to develop my mind to
00:35:45.440
develop my relationships and develop my business capacity and acumen. Let me pay for that so
00:35:51.060
that, you know, I'm serious. And so that I take myself seriously as well. What we don't
00:35:55.140
pay for, we don't really honor. We don't really take care of and we don't value. We don't put
00:35:59.300
it as a priority. So for whatever you can do, maybe it's a $97 a month group on school.
00:36:05.960
Maybe it's, you know, going to a live event. You've got to put yourself in rooms where you
00:36:10.060
can find those people. And then what it's going to do is it's going to illuminate who
00:36:14.860
you have to become to stay in that room. Anybody can get in the room and you can continue paying
00:36:20.580
to be in rooms, but to be one who's asked to lead the room, who do you have to become?
00:36:25.680
And like, and that's a real gift because that's our foundational question. What needs
00:36:29.060
to die in you to become the man you said you'd be? Who do you have to become? Which
00:36:33.140
is where the fear comes in. Cause I'm going to have to let go of this. And what are my
00:36:36.420
friends going to think? What's my wife going to think? What about my kids? What about my
00:36:39.860
job? What about this? What happens if you don't? Cause if it's not working, it's not
00:36:43.740
working. That's an interesting concept. What needs to die in you to become a man you, you
00:36:48.280
are meant to become. Um, does that have any sort of, uh, negative consequences? I mean,
00:36:53.560
it's, it's kind of a, I don't know how to say it. Maybe a darker look at motivation,
00:36:58.160
inspiration, growth, et cetera. Um, and so how do you, how do you balance that out
00:37:02.980
with, okay, here's what needs to die, but here's also what needs to grow and be born
00:37:08.520
in me. Yeah. Well, again, I think I've been around so much loss and I've seen so
00:37:12.300
much like real, real trauma that, uh, I think everything, everything has kind of
00:37:16.980
that spin on it. Not, not to be dark, to be like a horror film, but just, there's a
00:37:22.120
real recognition of our finality and our humanity and, um, how quick time goes and
00:37:29.340
how fragile life is. And when I say what needs to die in me to become the man that I
00:37:33.500
said that I'd be around, everybody wants the resurrection story. Everybody wants the
00:37:37.600
other side where man, you're the man that you always knew you'd be. You got the body
00:37:42.160
and you're working out and you got the money and your wife looks at you with awe and amazement
00:37:48.400
and your kids think you're a superhero. Yeah. Cool. That's the resurrection, but there is
00:37:54.120
no resurrection that happens without death. And so what has to die? Your fear, your
00:37:59.060
insecurities, all your vices, relationships that are not healthy and not serving that
00:38:04.640
cannot be salvaged, um, old mindsets and modalities, patterns, belief systems, what
00:38:11.960
needs to die so that the version of you that God has called, because God did choose
00:38:15.700
you. That is my belief. I don't believe that there are any accidents on this earth. I believe
00:38:19.740
that we're all called for something unique, but in order to step into that, you have to
00:38:23.800
die to yourself. And the hard part about that is it's a daily death. It doesn't just happen
00:38:29.200
once every day, every day at the end of the day. Am I proud of the man that God called me
00:38:35.180
to be today? Did I set a standard that is kingdom sized? Did I go all in? Was I someone
00:38:40.640
someone that I needed as a child? Like one day, like my kids will be in your kids too.
00:38:45.680
They're going to like get up to the high school age and they're going to graduate. And when
00:38:50.120
they graduate, they're going to come to you and you're going to say, shoot, you can do
00:38:53.720
anything and be anything you want to be. Like you have unlimited potential. And they're going
00:38:58.160
to say one of two things. One, dad, I know I watched you. I watched you not get it all
00:39:02.960
right. I watched you fall on your face a couple of times. I watched you walk through things
00:39:07.700
that I thought would take you out. And if I, if I look back on it now, I probably should
00:39:11.520
have taken you out, but it didn't. And you kept going and you kept putting to death all
00:39:16.860
the things in you that were separating you from God's love and that you knew you didn't
00:39:21.320
want to pass on to us. You kept transforming that pain. So you didn't continue to transmit
00:39:24.800
it to us. I know I can do and be anything. I've watched you. Or they're going to say, yeah,
00:39:29.640
you've been telling me that my whole life, but I've never seen you do it. So what makes you
00:39:33.300
think I'm going to believe it for myself? So you just have two options and I just
00:39:37.140
choose to confront the ego, to confront unforgiveness, to confront frustration, to
00:39:42.180
confront my annoyance with things that happen inside of our industry. And it
00:39:47.420
separates me from some people and it attaches me to others that are like life and
00:39:52.960
like-minded. It pushes me to share things that cause me to be separated from people
00:39:59.740
that I really, really love, not intentionally. But because I believe when you start
00:40:04.620
using the name of God and you start using scripture to further your marketing message and
00:40:08.980
you start using pastoral language, then biblically you become under that covering. And what you
00:40:13.660
don't recognize is when you do that biblically, everyone who comes in contact with your content,
00:40:19.160
their blood is on your hands. You are in pastoral integrity and leadership. I just don't think
00:40:23.520
a lot of people think about it that way. And so for me, that is a very heavy weight for
00:40:27.680
me. It's not a joke. I think there are times when I didn't take it as seriously as I do
00:40:32.540
now. And I'm by no means perfect, but every day I do wake up and I do my best on a daily
00:40:37.660
basis to put to death things that are separating me from who I know I'm called to be, to steward
00:40:46.420
It's an interesting concept about this, not only stewardship, but when you start invoking the
00:40:52.140
name of God and Christ, how you're held to a higher standard, uh, on, on a significant lesser
00:40:57.240
level. Uh, I remember when I opened my own financial planning practice and moving from
00:41:02.080
a representative to an advisor, I became a fiduciary where now I was legally bound to operate on the
00:41:09.600
best interest of my clients, not the best interest of myself. It was a very, uh, very important
00:41:14.740
moment and transformation in my career at that time.
00:41:17.220
Yeah. That's such a good analogy. Like it's just when you make a shift, like responsibility
00:41:26.560
You said something I wrestle with personally, and I actually didn't expect this conversation
00:41:30.460
to go here, but let's let it go here. Uh, you said that you said that God chooses you and
00:41:36.200
he chooses everybody for their own unique calling. And I can't help in my mind, this is the thing
00:41:41.140
I've wrestled with. And I know a lot of guys listening wrestle with this. There's eight plus
00:41:44.440
billion people on the planet. And there's been hundreds of billions of people throughout
00:41:48.240
human history. Did he call everybody? And, and, and if everybody, but if everybody's calling,
00:41:53.160
like is anybody calling? You know what I'm saying? Like, it's hard for me to wrap my head around
00:41:56.900
Yeah. Well, everybody has this, like, so when we talk purpose, purpose isn't everything that
00:42:01.540
you do. Purpose is in much of being a dad or a business owner or just a friend, a man of
00:42:08.440
integrity, like an athlete, everything, a spouse, everything we do. Like we're not a fork,
00:42:13.940
so we're not a utility. Like our purpose isn't everything. And what informs that is how we
00:42:19.620
believe we are called or not called. And so when we think about our purpose, like, again,
00:42:25.300
from my standpoint, because everybody can clearly understand that I kind of read things to a
00:42:30.160
Jesus lens or not, not kind of, I do like we're to love God or love God, love ourselves
00:42:35.880
and love people. We are to go into make disciples. We are to spread the good news of Christ. We are
00:42:41.220
to be a lighthouse of his word. We're to live lives that are of integrity, that magnify that
00:42:47.640
to the best of our ability. And where we fall short, we give thanks for the grace of God.
00:42:53.560
And then calling is something different. Calling is, and calling adapts. Calling, it shifts over
00:42:59.200
time with our experiences, with our faults, with our successes, with life in general. And that's
00:43:06.820
where like the things that we love, there's a, there's an illustration called Ikigai. It's
00:43:10.660
where the things that you love, the things that you're good at, and then what is valuable to
00:43:14.480
marketplace all kind of reach a center point. Now, does everyone find out and discover what
00:43:19.260
that is? No. Does everyone lean into it? No. That's why the best ideas are in the graveyard.
00:43:25.240
So I think that especially now, what's been very interesting with AI and all the influx of
00:43:31.840
technology recently is it feels like because we've equated purpose so much with just what we do
00:43:38.260
or calling so much with just a vocation. Like for, for me, a big part of my, like what I feel called to
00:43:45.520
is the, the long-term restoration of girls rescued from sex trafficking, 11 to 17, 2 million kids
00:43:52.940
trafficked annually. We have less than 600 beds in the United States for kids to receive long-term care.
00:43:59.240
From long-term care, from trauma resulting from sexual abuse, 600 beds across the nation.
00:44:07.660
What is that? 12 per, 12 per state on average? Yeah. We have some, a part of the largest organization
00:44:15.500
in the country called the Demand Project. It's on my website. And we're, we're the largest restoration
00:44:21.560
facility in the country. Ryan, we have 30 beds. So part of my calling is to help more of these girls.
00:44:27.700
Has nothing to do with what I do. But when I understand what, what God has burdened me with,
00:44:32.660
because I had a niece who was assaulted to death. I have a sister who was, was, whose life was taken.
00:44:39.720
It changes things. So now like money on like selfish. I want to make as much money as I can
00:44:45.760
as much. I want, I, I want to make as much resources possible. Do I need more stuff, bro?
00:44:52.100
I drive a 95 power stroke and 89 Bronco. I love that Bronco too, man. That's an amazing vehicle.
00:44:57.380
Well, what more could a man want in his life? Y'all can keep your Lambo. It's just give me,
00:45:01.720
give me land. Um, but, uh, I don't need anything. I'm so blessed. I don't, I don't need anything else.
00:45:08.380
What I need is resource so that we can, we can build more facility. We can get more of these girls
00:45:14.600
help. That's it. So we can pray and prayer answers things. Absolutely. But 99% of the problems that
00:45:22.080
you're looking to eradicate are solved with money. And so when we talk about calling, yeah, like
00:45:27.160
calling isn't necessarily what you do. It's what's affected by what you do. It's what keeps you up.
00:45:32.840
It's what you can align with. And so many people, they're so worried about solving the money
00:45:36.300
conversation and they're so knee deep in their own stories about their own life and worrying about
00:45:41.500
things that don't matter. And, you know, as Byron Katie would say, living in others business or
00:45:45.980
God's business instead of their own business, that they never get out of their own self-insulated
00:45:50.660
bubble long enough to be able to even see what's going on in the world and how they might be able
00:45:55.440
to impact that. And again, who they'd have to become in order for that to happen. And I think that
00:46:00.620
with, again, what I was saying earlier with technology, I think we're moving so fast that I think it's
00:46:04.880
really hard to even understand and get very, very clear on what that looks like right now,
00:46:09.800
because it feels like when we equate purpose with the work of our hands and things that we do,
00:46:14.580
things are being automated and advanced so quickly, like it's outpacing our ability to even comprehend
00:46:19.860
where we fit into all of that. We don't even know right now. So it's just a very interesting time,
00:46:25.180
more than I think any other in history to be alive. But yes, I do believe all of us are called because
00:46:30.020
I do believe that Genesis 1 26 says that God has called us with dominion over the birds of the air,
00:46:37.760
the fish of the sea and the beasts of the land. Now that was jacked up by Adam, reconciled through
00:46:41.920
the blood of Christ. And so that mandate was made whole again. And so when you recognize that we're
00:46:46.720
the ones who are called to steward everything on this earth, then yes, we are all called because
00:46:50.280
we're all called to that reconciliation. And we're all called to bear the kingdom here on earth as it is
00:46:54.860
in heaven. A lot of questions. Um, some, some temporal, some spiritual, um, maybe I'll, I'll, I'll hold off
00:47:04.380
on some of the spiritual conversation for later, but, but I, I do have a thought on, well, not a thought,
00:47:10.420
a question about something you said earlier with regards to judgment. This is one that I've always had
00:47:15.340
a hard time wrapping my head around. Uh, you know, a lot of people say it's not your job to judge and
00:47:20.260
let Christ judge, but isn't it our job to judge? Like, aren't we supposed to judge? Yeah. Like
00:47:26.420
we're supposed to judge behavior. We're supposed to judge our friends. We're supposed to judge,
00:47:30.360
uh, what we ought to be doing versus what we ought not to be doing. Like, I don't understand why we
00:47:35.840
get so hung up on this concept of judgment. Uh, one, because we don't want to be judged. Um, so
00:47:41.700
I think that's probably the biggest part. That's actually, I mean, that's biblical too, is it,
00:47:47.820
you know, the idea is, and you could, you could quote it better than I could, but, um, you know,
00:47:52.980
if you're going to be judging of other people, you're going to be held to the same standard by
00:47:56.540
which you judge others. Well, yeah, it's, it's the, it's the scripture of, you know, like
00:48:01.360
you're looking at the splinter and somebody's eye one neglecting the plank in your own. And I think
00:48:07.100
that's where judgment gets a little sketchy is when like not all criticism is qualified. And so
00:48:15.120
make sure that if you're going to hold someone to a standard that you're adhering to it as well.
00:48:20.400
Otherwise you're a Pharisee and you're a hypocrite. Uh, which is why I try to have as much grace for
00:48:25.520
people as possible. Can I judge them on their actions? Absolutely. Can I make assessments based
00:48:30.340
on, yeah, based on the things that they say? Absolutely. Um, do I judge the content of their
00:48:36.560
soul? That's not for me to judge. I can't judge that. Um, I can't even judge sometimes their
00:48:42.800
motivation because I don't know the stories that are playing out in their mind. I don't know their
00:48:46.700
traumas. I don't know all those things, but I can judge the actions and we can hold accountable the
00:48:52.020
actions and we can hold accountable the things, uh, that we believe are not to the standard that we
00:48:57.960
should be adhering to as well. Otherwise, again, uh, it, it comes back to like take care of your own
00:49:04.800
life. Pretty sorry. Telling me how to take care of mine. The other thing I'll say, and I think this is
00:49:08.780
important for anyone is that like anytime you're trying to hold someone accountable to something,
00:49:14.100
right? So not just outright judging them and condemning them, but judging against who, you
00:49:20.860
know, they can be, which is one of the greatest acts of love and then holding them to a standard
00:49:25.320
accountability that isn't asked for always feels like a threat. Yeah. It's unsolicited feedback.
00:49:30.340
Nobody loves that. Nobody loves that. And so when, when there's not that great level of trust,
00:49:35.360
and even sometimes when there is, you know, your spouse calls you out for something. So then you
00:49:39.680
snap back with something cause you gotta be passive aggressive back. Um, you know, none of that is
00:49:45.840
healthy and all it does is perpetuate more hiding and more shame and more needing to prove. And, and
00:49:53.080
the ego, the ego can never receive proper criticism and accountability cause it's always just too busy
00:49:58.940
trying to prove itself right. Yeah. I mean, that's, I think that's one of the biggest things that men deal
00:50:02.540
with and face is just overcoming their ego. You said what the ego can never face criticism
00:50:08.120
accurately. What did you say? Receive accountability. Yeah. It can't face criticism or receive
00:50:13.500
accountability cause it's too busy proving itself. Right. How does a man overcome that? I mean,
00:50:17.780
every man is, is arrogant and egotistical in some way to varying degrees, but how does a man begin to
00:50:22.380
overcome that? Because sometimes it's even hard to acknowledge. Like we, I I've had conversations
00:50:26.960
today where I'm like, I'm definitely right. And I don't know, like, am I right? Or is that my ego
00:50:31.920
speaking? Yeah. Yeah. Am I objectively right? Or just subjectively? Objectively. Because I don't
00:50:37.880
know. I'm like, I know. Um, I do. I think it's a daily dance genuinely book. I wish like, I think
00:50:48.900
if I had the exact answer on how to kill the ego, I think Ryan holiday has a book on it. He goes, the
00:50:54.860
enemy. Um, and he made a lot of money off that book. If you can figure out how to destroy the ego,
00:51:00.080
you should write a book cause you'll be a billionaire. Uh, but I do believe that understanding
00:51:05.280
who you are and whose you are, recognizing your own fallacies and faults, uh, recognizing the ways
00:51:11.400
in which God has brought you out of certain storms and the ways that you've brought yourself out and
00:51:16.800
the ways that other brothers have brought you out in the ways that others didn't judge you and the ways
00:51:22.600
in which you were able to hold them accountable, that they should be able to hold you accountable.
00:51:25.780
Now, I think it's, I believe it's taking yourself seriously, but not so seriously that you think
00:51:31.920
you're infallible. I mean, you, you brought up a great point with Ryan holiday. Like he wrote a book
00:51:36.740
on it and still his ego gets in the way. You know, I, I watched that guy, I watched that guy show up
00:51:42.400
during COVID and the ego came out and he pretended as if he knew better than other people. And he wanted
00:51:47.240
to make decisions on other people's behalf. And, um, that's ego. Like you don't know. And yet you act as
00:51:52.700
if you do, it's hard when you even you're the quote unquote authority on it. It still is so
00:51:58.520
insidious and so pervasive in every aspect of our lives that it's really hard to tell at times.
00:52:05.520
Well, and it's so funny because I'll, I'll get, I do interviews quite a bit and conversations quite a
00:52:11.360
bit. And if there's just not, if there's a topic that someone was talking about that I don't know,
00:52:15.220
I'm not going to try and BS you. I just don't know. I'm not the right person for that. You should go
00:52:19.380
talk to this person. They're going to be far more qualified to answer that question. Anything I say
00:52:23.100
is me just going to be trying to, you know, pull some sort of word salad out and make myself sound
00:52:29.500
smart. I would just rather not do that because then ultimately I'm going to look like an idiot
00:52:33.820
because I am an idiot in regards to what it is you're asking. So I just rather, I think when you
00:52:38.740
can recognize you're not an expert in everything, but what you are passionate about, double down on
00:52:43.660
and be convicted. And there are certain things that are non-negotiables for me. There are probably
00:52:48.800
certain things that are non-negotiables for you. Like these are not things that I'm going to bend
00:52:52.280
on. These are beliefs that are deeply rooted in me that are truth that may not be truth to someone
00:52:56.940
else. It is not my ego. It is my soul. And so I'm not here to prove something to you. I'm not here to
00:53:03.640
strong arm you into anything. Even, you know, I'm a part of a, I facilitate quite a few masterminds
00:53:09.700
around the country and a lot of different belief systems and belief structures. And I'm interested in all
00:53:16.600
of them. I don't believe them just like they don't believe mine, but we have the best conversations
00:53:21.460
when you're not trying to convince someone that you're right. That's an ego. Yeah. When you,
00:53:27.500
when you say that there's things that maybe you wouldn't answer because you don't know what,
00:53:31.340
what do you want to know specifically, even just this year that you don't already know? Are there
00:53:36.640
things that you're working on where you think, man, I could really focus on this.
00:53:40.160
Dude, I'm trying to get taller, but that hasn't worked for 41 years.
00:53:44.340
I think there's a surgery where you can extend your, your, the bones in your, in your legs,
00:53:49.160
but you'll be hung up for 12, 18 months, I'm sure. Yeah. Or longer. I'm like, I'm good. I'm all
00:53:55.740
right. Dude. So there's, there's quite a few things. Um, I, one, biblically, I'm just, I'm always
00:54:02.040
interested there. So I'm always going to be studying that. Uh, that's been a part of my life,
00:54:06.200
you know, academically studying for about 20 years now. So, uh, that's always going to be something
00:54:10.740
I'm very interested in AI right now. Uh, you know, I'm on the board of an energy company.
00:54:16.160
And so I'm part of the, the, the dev, uh, side of all of our AI infrastructure and team.
00:54:21.860
And that has been very, very interesting. Uh, built my own AI dev team now. And so we're,
00:54:27.560
we're building out different utilities and, uh, I need a team because I don't code. Um, I just ideate
00:54:34.260
and we create and then we refine and then we patent and put to market. Um, what is, what is
00:54:41.300
very interesting is how fast things are progressing. And so I'm just very, very interested in how
00:54:46.060
all of that plays together and what that's going to do for humanity moving forward, what
00:54:50.460
that does for the job market moving forward, how all of us will need to adapt, how I can
00:54:55.880
ensure that, you know, any of the guys that are in my circle, making sure that they have
00:54:59.940
all the resources that they need, uh, in digestible formats to be able to understand what's happening
00:55:05.120
around them, whether they choose to embrace it or not, you embrace it, you get left behind
00:55:09.300
it's here anyway. Um, so that's very, very interesting to me right now. Um, uh, outside of
00:55:16.540
that, uh, I'm always interested in how to become a better communicator. Um, that has been something
00:55:22.700
that I've done for you in the past 25 years and that's not going to slow down. Um, but other
00:55:27.500
than that, man, what I'm really interested in learning, like more than anything, um,
00:55:33.140
I have a son and a stepson. They're both, they're 10 and 11. And I have a nephew who's
00:55:38.080
nine and a nephew who's seven and asking them as many questions and just getting to know
00:55:44.040
them and getting to learn every day is a new day to be a dad. And, uh, every day is a new
00:55:50.120
day to instill something or to get something else right. I think a lot of times as dads, we
00:55:55.200
look at the things that we get wrong. Like I, I could have spent more time. I could have been
00:55:58.420
more present. I could, when you start focusing on what you can do, right. And, and where you
00:56:02.380
really like, man, I think I really got that one. I think today was a good one. I, I think they're
00:56:07.840
going to remember that one. Focus on that and focus on those little moments of memories,
00:56:12.220
recognizing you just never, they're, they're as young as they're ever going to be today.
00:56:15.940
And consequently, they're also the oldest they've ever been. So they're thinking new
00:56:19.340
things just like you are and, uh, man, learning them and walking with them and, uh, just the
00:56:28.000
experience of, of fatherhood and experience of being a husband. And, uh, even, you know,
00:56:32.640
my co-parents, they have four little girls and, uh, they're like our kids as well. And so even just
00:56:38.220
being around them and learning them and understanding how like their brains work so much differently.
00:56:43.620
And, um, the experience for me is what I think I'm taking in. You know, I've read enough personal
00:56:49.080
development books. I've read enough self-help books. I read enough books on masculinity. I've
00:56:53.100
read enough books on, you know, all these different things. If anything, I probably would,
00:56:57.380
would take up a little bit more philosophy. Um, and, uh, better than that. Yeah. I've got enough
00:57:03.520
books behind me to, to give anyone a PhD and, uh, knowing everything you need to know about yourself
00:57:09.580
until the next book comes out. And then you recognize you didn't know anything,
00:57:13.140
which is how they get you. You're good enough until you're not purpose is nothing more than
00:57:16.700
a commodity sold by personal development in the church. Cody, I appreciate you, brother. This
00:57:21.640
has been an awesome conversation. Um, yeah, I think we might need to run it back and I think
00:57:25.860
we need to be more connected. I, uh, we've, uh, we've always been loosely connected, you know,
00:57:30.840
but I think we need to be more connected and I'd love to get together face to face in person and
00:57:34.920
go on a hunt or an activity or something together, man. It'd be awesome to do that together.
00:57:38.320
Yeah. It'd be, it'd be an honor. Genuinely. I've, uh, I've always respected you. I've always
00:57:44.020
respected the man that you are. And, uh, I've always, I've always looked forward to the day
00:57:47.960
where, where we would be friends at that level. I always saw it. And again, I believe it's always
00:57:52.160
the timing thing. And we, we both had different things going on. We both went through like very
00:57:56.800
separate seasons. And, um, I think we're at a point now where again, there's that resurrection
00:58:01.780
piece of like some things needed to die and some things needed to be settled and new life
00:58:06.880
needed to be born and new opportunity and new promise and new favor, fresh favor. And, uh,
00:58:12.720
and now we get to, to build a real friendship out of the best parts of ourselves.
00:58:17.500
I think, uh, I think, yeah, you come into seasons where both people are ready and aligned and
00:58:22.060
I think it could be something great. So let's, uh, let's not pay that lip service. Let's actually
00:58:26.080
do it. Uh, tell the guys where to connect with you, learn more about what you've got going on
00:58:31.400
Oh yeah. I mean, I'm pretty easy to find on social media. Just please follow it's Cody Jefferson.
00:58:36.660
Just follow the blue check because if not, somebody's going to try and sell you crypto
00:58:42.840
I actually had a friend today who, um, you might know him Connor Beaton with Mantox. Do
00:58:49.280
So Connor put out a post or a reel or something story, um, where I guess somebody on Tik TOK
00:58:56.280
had cloned his likeness and was giving a wet, a daily weather report using their own,
00:59:03.280
their own, uh, voice, but using Connor's image. This stuff's getting crazy, man. It's getting
00:59:09.320
Yeah, dude. AI's getting weird, dude. It's so odd. And then, uh, you can also find me
00:59:19.120
Brother, I appreciate you. Let's, like I said, let's not pay that lip service. Let's
00:59:24.380
All right, gentlemen, Mr. Cody Jefferson. I hope you enjoyed it. I love Cody's energy.
00:59:30.460
We've been friends for almost a decade now. And every time I talk with this man, I'm inspired
00:59:35.260
and motivated to do more than I am currently doing. So make sure you connect with him on
00:59:40.600
the gram, on X, on Facebook, on YouTube, wherever you're doing your social media stuff. And if
00:59:45.240
you would just take a screenshot right now, real quick and, uh, post it as a, uh, a story
00:59:50.380
if you want, or in your feed and let other people know what you're listening to. I really
00:59:55.380
feel like as men, if we have access to tools and information and resources, then we ought
00:59:59.540
to share that with the people who will be impacted positively by it. And again, speaking
01:00:03.980
of those tools and resources, the iron council, our accountability program is up and running
01:00:08.740
and open for enrollment for another few days. So if you're going to do it, now's the time
01:00:12.860
to do it. Get some accountability and improving your life. Head to order a man.com slash iron
01:00:17.620
council. All right, guys, you have your orders for the week. Uh, we will be back tomorrow
01:00:23.960
for our ask me anything until then go out there, take action and become the man you are meant
01:00:33.640
Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your
01:00:37.940
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