Order of Man - CODY JINKS ｜ I'm Not the Devil

00:00:00.000 Most of you guys know that I don't listen to a ton of music, but if there is one music artist,

00:00:04.980 you'll catch me listening to more than anyone else. It's my guest today, Cody Jinx. He's got

00:00:10.060 such an interesting style, but more than that, he's a fascinating man. And it was an honor to

00:00:14.780 have the chance to talk with him. Today, we talk about where his style comes from,

00:00:19.200 bucking the trends of pop culture, his transition back to work in the wake of the COVID response,

00:00:25.200 what it's like to play and perform in front of thousands, overcoming nervousness,

00:00:30.000 and striking the balance between inspiration and responsibility.

00:00:34.340 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly

00:00:38.780 chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You

00:00:44.620 are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is

00:00:51.120 who you are. This is who you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said and done,

00:00:56.420 you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Nickler,

00:01:02.020 and I am the host and the founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement. Welcome here and

00:01:06.700 welcome back. We are reclaiming and restoring what it means to be a man and masculinity in general.

00:01:13.040 To that end, we have these conversations with incredible guests like my guest today, Cody Jinx.

00:01:17.560 Uh, we've also had Steve Rinella, Andy Frisilla, Tim Kennedy, Dakota Meyer, uh, Jocko. I mean,

00:01:25.720 the David Goggins, the, the lineup of men that have joined us is, is incredible and, uh, very

00:01:31.840 inspiring hopefully for you guys, because that's the point to give you a message of inspiration.

00:01:36.020 And also, uh, that of tactics, things that you can apply in your life to improve yourself as a

00:01:41.940 father and a husband and a leader in your home and in your community and in your business as well.

00:01:47.040 So, uh, we've got, like I said, a great one lined up with Mr. Cody Jinx today. Uh, before I get into

00:01:52.240 it, I just want to make a quick mention of my friends over at warrior poet society network.

00:01:56.420 Uh, you've heard me talk about them. Uh, and I believe most of you, a lot of you anyways,

00:02:02.000 know that I've got exclusive shows over there on the warrior poet society network. So if you're

00:02:07.940 interested in learning more about what that's all about, uh, I would encourage you to head to

00:02:12.420 order of man.com slash W P S N order of man.com slash W P S N for warrior poet society network.

00:02:20.400 You're going to learn what this is about. You're going to gain access to my exclusive content over

00:02:24.960 there. Uh, as well as John level, uh, of warrior poet society and many others, I think you're really

00:02:30.520 going to enjoy it. It's like a, a Netflix exclusively for men. I really think you're going to enjoy it.

00:02:37.520 You're going to learn a lot from it. That's the most important thing. Uh, and then you get more

00:02:41.440 of me and how could that be a bad thing? Anyways, go check it out. Order of man.com slash W P S N 1.00

00:02:46.960 for now, guys, let me introduce you to my guest. He is country music artist, Cody Jinx. Uh, many of

00:02:52.900 you know his country sound and style, but you may not know that he actually started his music career

00:02:57.840 in heavy metal. Uh, but after the breakup, uh, with his band and some other bad experiences with

00:03:03.720 management, he eventually ventured out on his own. Uh, and he's become extremely, extremely successful

00:03:08.900 as one of the biggest independent country music music, not mudic country music artists, uh, on the 0.95

00:03:16.440 planet. Now, Cody likes to do his own way, which you're going to hear in his music, of course,

00:03:20.480 and is a big reason why he decided to strike it out on his own. But you'll also hear that in our

00:03:26.280 conversation as he shares his perspective on life and where his inspiration comes from. He also talks

00:03:33.000 about his coffin bookshelves behind him in his, uh, in this conversation. You'll see that if you're

00:03:38.900 listening or watching on YouTube. Uh, but Cody's a fascinating man and it was a real privilege to be

00:03:44.720 able to talk with him. Enjoy guys. Mr. Cody Jinx. What's up, brother? Good to connect with you. I,

00:03:51.120 I, it's actually like, it's a real honor. It's a real treat for me to be on the podcast with you.

00:03:55.000 I listen to your music every single day. No joke. Well, thank you. Thank you very much,

00:03:59.660 man. I appreciate it. Thank you for, uh, for the time. Thank you for having me looking forward to

00:04:05.460 it. Yeah, man. I was going to tell you, uh, that my son and I, so my son, my oldest son,

00:04:11.100 he's 13, just turned 13. Uh, him and I do our own, uh, order fulfillment for our store. And so every

00:04:18.800 morning we spend anywhere from 45 minutes to a couple of hours, uh, processing orders. And we just

00:04:25.840 say, Hey, Alexa play Cody Jinx songs. And it just randomizes your songs and we just jam out and we

00:04:32.580 just have a good time filling orders and talking. And, uh, man, he was pretty excited that I'd be

00:04:37.420 able to have this conversation with you too. Well, I, I appreciate that. And I'm glad you guys are,

00:04:42.420 are digging on the music, but what's cooler than that, I think is that, um, you've got your, uh,

00:04:47.640 you've got your son helping with the biz, man. That's, that's pretty good. That's good.

00:04:52.280 That's, that's good, uh, life skills and knowledge and things that will, uh, he will definitely be

00:04:58.840 served, um, you know, later on, you know, I hope so. That's the goal is, you know, we, we,

00:05:04.700 we had this merchandise company running the orders for us years for years. And it just, it, it was

00:05:10.880 fine. You know, they didn't do a great job, but the fact that I get to bring it in house and spend

00:05:14.840 time with my kid and teach them about inventory and orders and growing a brand and growing a business

00:05:20.760 and spending time together, man, just is, is pretty valuable and powerful for us.

00:05:26.420 That's fantastic. They, you know, it's, we probably are similar in years. My daughter is

00:05:32.460 about to turn 12, you know, so I've, I've got kind of the same age demographic going on here, but, uh,

00:05:40.020 yeah, it's those lessons that they learn now. Those are, those are the ones that, uh, they're,

00:05:44.500 they're very formative. Yes. Yeah.

00:05:47.220 How involved is your daughter in your, in your career? Is it, do you bring her on tour? I know,

00:05:52.600 I know that's probably been pretty limited with, with COVID and everything, but what,

00:05:56.480 what's your experience with that?

00:05:57.980 You know, she, my daughter and my son are, as they tend to be completely different animals. Um,

00:06:05.760 I wouldn't pick them up from school one day in the tour bus. Cause I had just come off a tour.

00:06:11.180 I thought that they would think it was so cool. They walk outside my daughter. My daughter's

00:06:16.760 mortified and my son thinks my son thinks it's the coolest thing ever. So no, my daughter doesn't

00:06:22.340 like being on the, my wife and my daughter don't like being on the bus. They can't sleep on the

00:06:26.360 bus. Uh, my son is a road dog kind of like I am, but, um, they're both involved. Um, I've used

00:06:35.500 them both as, uh, as, uh, inspiration for songs. I have, uh, several songs that, you know, came

00:06:41.800 straight out of the mouth of my daughter and, and, uh, my son alike. Um, they, they both are playing

00:06:49.820 instruments now on their own accord. We don't, you know, my wife and I are very, you know, kind of,

00:06:54.340 Hey man, find your thing, whatever you want to do, you know? Um, but she's playing piano and, uh,

00:07:00.680 he's playing, uh, he's playing guitar and drums. And so we're having a lot of fun with that. I just

00:07:05.980 had to go tell, cause they love to play and, and, and they play all the time and you never know

00:07:11.380 whenever you're going to hear a drum solo or, or something going on the piano. Right. You know,

00:07:16.160 there's always music going on here, but, uh, they love it. It's a lot of fun. And, and, you know,

00:07:22.940 she doesn't really like the road. My boy loves the road, but I use them as influences and, uh,

00:07:27.840 lots of music, man. It's so much fun. How do you balance the desire? Cause I know you're a family

00:07:33.380 man. You want to be with your kids and you want to be with your wife, but how do you,

00:07:36.340 how do you balance the desire to be with them? But then also as things begin to pick up,

00:07:40.660 and I know they will, uh, of, of you being on the road, traveling, uh, pursuing your own interests,

00:07:47.780 what is the balance like for you? Um, I've learned a lot over the last year. Um, you know, I just,

00:07:56.860 I turned 40, uh, this past August, I've been on the road full time for 15 years. Um, so,

00:08:06.200 you know, my kids don't know any different, you know, I've been on the, you know, my, my, my wife

00:08:12.180 and I've been together for a long, long time. And, and, uh, it's just, it's just what it is, you know,

00:08:17.000 um, the balance, I didn't have much of a balance for a long time. It was very difficult,

00:08:25.100 um, because we had to work all the time, all the time, all the time. You know,

00:08:28.740 there was a time, you know, we were on the road nine or 10 months a year, 11 months a year,

00:08:32.140 sometimes. And that's, that's been cut back a lot. And not just because of this last year,

00:08:39.560 us being off, but, um, we're husbands and fathers now. And, uh, you know, it's, it's so,

00:08:46.920 uh, trying to maintain a balance was almost forced upon us this last, these last 13 months,

00:08:56.480 we haven't played in 13 months. I, you know, I go back to work, um, in a week and a half,

00:09:00.520 you know, thankfully, but, um, you know, I, it's been a very reflective time, man. I've,

00:09:07.960 I've, I've learned to balance. I think I've learned, I've started learning how, you know,

00:09:12.540 I guess because it's like, we, we worked, worked, worked, worked, worked, worked, work. And we're

00:09:17.740 the guys in the band, you know, we're all, you know, uh, early thirties to early fifties. So

00:09:23.680 we're, you know, we've got a lot going, you know, kids with guys with small kids and guys with grown

00:09:30.000 kids and, you know, um, but none of us had ever taken a break. Right. And, uh, and now I think that

00:09:37.980 when I do go back, um, I'll, I'll, I'll appreciate the time off more because I used to be at three or

00:09:45.940 four weeks on three or four weeks or two to three weeks off. Get me back out on the road. If I'm

00:09:50.380 home longer than three weeks, I'm driving everybody nuts. They're like, dad, get, you gotta go, man.

00:09:57.100 You gotta get out of here. So now being home for 13 months, you know, my perspective about,

00:10:01.640 about a bunch of things has changed. And, and, um, I don't know, in a weird way at 40,

00:10:07.900 I finally kind of starting to feel like I'm growing up a little bit, man. That's,

00:10:12.780 that's interesting. You say that. Cause I actually turned 40 this weekend.

00:10:16.120 Oh, happy birthday. Yeah. Thank you, brother. Yeah. I was thinking about it. I'm like,

00:10:20.820 I actually feel pretty good. You know, I never thought I would be this old.

00:10:25.880 I didn't either. Yeah. But then I was like, damn, I feel, I actually feel pretty good.

00:10:31.760 Like I feel pretty good where I'm at with my, my family. I feel pretty good with where I'm at with 0.98

00:10:36.800 my career choice, my profession, what I'm trying to do, what I'm trying to accomplish, who, who I am.

00:10:43.400 And, and, you know, as, as I listened to you, you know, I think it'd be easy for you to like,

00:10:48.340 to fit in, right. And to be tempted to fit in, especially with the country music world,

00:10:52.720 to, to hit your wagon to, to the pop culture and in the way country music is gone. And yet I see you

00:10:59.480 as somebody who is, uh, doing things a little different, which I can certainly appreciate.

00:11:05.820 You know, you said, you know, uh, hitting 40 and being comfortable, you know, with, with this and

00:11:11.960 that, but you said, you know, with, with who I am and, uh, you know, that's, that's always been

00:11:18.680 important because more, more so this last year, I've been forced to figure out who I am,

00:11:26.160 you know, I mean, a performer with this, you know, and lots of performers out there, not just me,

00:11:30.800 but, you know, they literally had your stage taken away from you and you don't know what to do.

00:11:35.240 And you're like Ricky Bobby and you don't know what to do with your hands. And, you know, it's,

00:11:39.080 it's, it's, it's, you know, I've been, you know, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, you know, who,

00:11:44.580 you know, really, who am I? And, uh, and it's like, it's like, man, you know,

00:11:50.160 I kind of just feel like I started, you know, realizing, you know, who I am and, and, you know,

00:11:58.780 I don't know, man. It's, I don't know. It's not like a midlife crisis or anything, but,

00:12:03.300 you know, I felt like when I, when I was about 26, 27, I started pulling my head out of my ass 0.98

00:12:10.080 and like at 40, I think I'm a little further out, you know, not completely, but a little further, 0.99

00:12:17.760 a little further out. And, you know, like you said, you know, being in a good place with your,

00:12:22.360 you know, with your kids and with your marriage and, and, uh, you know, going through those rough

00:12:27.680 spots, uh, I think makes you appreciate, um, you know, the good times even more, you know, and, and,

00:12:35.720 and coming up for air has been a good thing. I get long-winded and I go off on tangents. So I'm,

00:12:43.220 you know, it's, that's what I want to hear, man. You know what? Well, and it's,

00:12:47.620 it's good because that's the power of this podcast. And that's the power of what you're

00:12:51.080 doing too, with your podcast is we get to have real conversations. You know, we get these 40

00:12:55.040 characters on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook or whatever. And, uh, we make these clever little

00:13:00.740 comments and these clever little social media posts. And yet there's so much nuance to what

00:13:04.780 we're doing and the struggles that we deal with. And, you know, the fact that you've been out of,

00:13:09.720 out of work, I guess, essentially, maybe, I don't know if you'd say it that way for 13 months,

00:13:13.460 but it's a weird thing, man. There's so much nuance to it.

00:13:16.780 Yeah. It's strange, you know, and, and, and we joke, you know, cause I mean my band and,

00:13:22.020 you know, we've been fortunate, man, my, my band and crew, nobody's, you know, uh, nobody's hurting,

00:13:27.960 even though we have, there's a lot of people out there that, you know, have, you know, not had it

00:13:32.880 as, as, as easy as we have. Um, you know, very, very blessed, very fortunate for that, but

00:13:40.640 you know, it's, uh, yeah, I don't know, man. It's, it's, uh, it's a crazy deal.

00:13:47.300 Yeah. Yeah. What's it, uh, what, what, what's it like now that you're, you're, you're coming out of

00:13:53.900 this, this last 13 months of months of hiatus and, and you, you sound like you've enjoyed it.

00:14:00.420 You know, I hear you and you're like, it's been nice. I've been with my family and maybe they're

00:14:04.220 getting a little sick of me, but I took this break and like, are, are there some trepidations

00:14:08.760 about what you're going to get yourself back into now? And, and how has that changed for you over

00:14:12.700 the past year? Uh, you know, like I said, I've never had anywhere near this amount of time off.

00:14:18.260 So I'm, I'm pretty nervous about going back. Quite honestly, I actually did it. I did a surprise

00:14:22.840 kind of show last night, um, with some friends of mine, Jason, Edie and Courtney Patton.

00:14:28.180 And, and it's the first time I had played, um, in front of people in a long time. And I was very

00:14:35.800 nervous. Uh, and it was an acoustic deal, you know, and, and we're going back out to, um,

00:14:42.180 Lubbock on the 16th, uh, of April and, uh, you know, just doing an acoustic show in front of like

00:14:50.600 4,500 people at this amphitheater. And it's, I kind of feel like, man, they're just getting thrown

00:14:55.560 back to the wolves. It's like, I'm rusty. Yeah. You know, so, uh, you know, I'm, I'm,

00:15:02.080 I've been practicing at home, which is something I've never done, which is cause I don't like to

00:15:06.900 take time off. I don't like to, to be off, uh, long enough to where, when we get back together,

00:15:11.800 we have to rehearse, you know, I mean, everybody, my band and crew, right. My band and crew, they all

00:15:17.300 live all over the United States. And, and so getting together for rehearsal means that like,

00:15:21.680 we have to get, you know, leave our family, you know, a week before tour even starts to

00:15:26.060 get warmed back up and get polished up and greasy again, you know? So, um, I have enjoyed it in a

00:15:31.900 lot of ways. How long does that typically take for you guys to like, I mean, you've been, you've been

00:15:35.180 together for so long. What'd you say? 15 years or so? Yeah. I mean, like, well, you know, it, it varies.

00:15:41.200 I've got, um, my longest tenured guy, I think is on his 14th year, 15th year. Yeah. And then, uh,

00:15:51.020 my newest guy is I think been with me for four, you know? So, I mean, right. I mean,

00:15:58.080 that's a pretty, that's a pretty, even still four years, man, of, of, of working together,

00:16:01.920 running shows together, working together, be, be, be in there. That's a long time, man.

00:16:05.960 Yeah. But, you know, and like you said, you know, it takes us a few days, you know, yes. You know,

00:16:10.980 how long does it take to get, to get kind of back together? It takes a few days. You know, we need,

00:16:14.680 we need really two really hard practices, maybe three, um, where you literally go over the set

00:16:21.100 like twice. So it's, you know, it ends up being like four hours worth of playing, but, you know,

00:16:26.720 it's like anything else, man. I, you know, I feel like, um, I kind of equate it to this, you know,

00:16:32.720 it's like, uh, being a fighter that's out of shape and, uh, finding out you, you know, you have a,

00:16:38.740 you have a fight coming up and, you know, you have, you have to get back to the gym and start working

00:16:43.500 out, you know? So for us, that's, that's mental, that's hands and memory and all that kind of

00:16:49.820 stuff. Do you feel like if you didn't have that, I know I certainly would, if I didn't have some sort

00:16:54.560 of, uh, accountability, I don't know if that's how you'd look at it, but if I've got 4,500 people

00:16:59.420 to listen to me and want to be entertained by me, I would, I would consider that a bit of

00:17:03.880 accountability. Do you feel like that's what keeps you on track or is there something else?

00:17:07.640 No, absolutely. That's a huge responsibility. That's right. Yeah, for sure. They're paying to be

00:17:12.500 there. They want to see you, they want to be entertained. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. You know,

00:17:16.740 that's, that's, that's the name of the game. You have to, um, when you go to a show, it's the same

00:17:23.260 thing for me. You know, when I go to a show, I want to see a good show. You know, I, I want,

00:17:29.360 I want to know that that person, that band or, you know, whomever is like really trying to,

00:17:36.640 you know, I mean, they're, they're getting everything they've got, you know, and that's,

00:17:39.780 that's important. And as somebody that, that does it for a living, you know, um, I take it very

00:17:46.420 seriously. It's, it's a, it's a big deal to me. I, I, you know, I would hate for anybody to leave

00:17:52.040 going, man, that like, what was that? Right. Right. Uh, I'm not, I'm not going to lie to you,

00:18:01.320 man. I, you know, I've had, I've had bad shows. I imagine. Yeah. You know, I mean,

00:18:06.160 we've all had bad shows. I've, I've been up there and just been like, guys, I just totally forgot

00:18:10.320 the words to that song. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. So you've actually said that on stage. Hey,

00:18:17.340 I forgot the words of this song. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I think that's

00:18:22.580 good though. I think that's, I think actually people are craving that they're like, finally,

00:18:25.980 somebody who's real, you know, finally somebody says he messes up and then he just owns it.

00:18:30.440 Then he laughs at it and just keeps on doing his thing. Yeah. Man. Um, one of my favorites of all

00:18:39.160 time is, is Randy Travis. And, and over the, over the years, uh, last few years, um, got to know him

00:18:45.820 and his, his wife, Mary, and they're great and they're wonderful. And, um, they're telling me a

00:18:52.460 story about, you know, Randy was, I forgot what song it was, but he said like two nights in a row,

00:18:59.000 he forgot the same damn song, you know, and he got to the same point in both because you start to

00:19:04.600 like, kind of screw with yourself in your mind, you know, and when you're up there and you're 0.97

00:19:09.360 sitting there having a conversation with yourself and trying to sing a song at the same time, it's

00:19:15.060 really weird. You get in your own head and like, you'll just kind of find this, this place where

00:19:20.040 like, like, why am I messing this up at the same point every time, you know, it's weird.

00:19:25.760 Why, why does that happen? Is it all just jumbled together or what?

00:19:28.220 I, I don't know. I think that, you know, I don't know. It's, it, we're all kind of

00:19:35.180 neurotic and the best thing to do is just forget about what you're doing and just do it.

00:19:41.520 Less focus and more just flow.

00:19:43.300 Yeah. You know, if you're thinking you're stinking, you know, that's kind of like, just,

00:19:48.380 just do what you do, you know, quit overthinking stuff.

00:19:52.540 Music doesn't seem to be as much, like you said, a thinking thing, more of a feeling thing. Would you

00:19:59.080 agree with that?

00:20:00.340 Yes. And that's, what's hard about the music business is that, you know, by nature, musicians

00:20:05.600 or artists in general, aren't good business people. So when you, you know, putting art and business

00:20:10.500 together, it's, it's, it's a strange, it's a strange thing. You know, it's you have to have the

00:20:18.400 business part of it, but it's really weird, man. Do you, do you deal with that side of things or do

00:20:24.260 you have somebody else manage that for you? Or what, what does that look like for you personally?

00:20:27.960 Um, you know, I'm really fortunate, man. I, I, I have a great, uh, management team, um, agents,

00:20:37.780 you know, I have been very fortunate to have, um, ended up being surrounded by the people I'm

00:20:47.620 surrounded with, you know? So it's definitely a team effort. Um, but you know, trying to find the

00:20:54.880 balance is, is all that we're trying to do, man, you know, trying to, trying to be as, as good as

00:21:00.420 we can in every facet.

00:21:01.760 I'm glad you brought up a Randy Travis. I think it was my oldest boy. Cause we listen to music

00:21:08.180 together while we're, while we're in the store, like I told you earlier. And I think he had said

00:21:11.940 something about Carrie Underwood or had brought up her song or something. I told you so. Right.

00:21:16.440 And he's like, let's do this song. And so I listened to it. I didn't say anything. I listened

00:21:19.520 to it. And he's like, isn't that amazing? Like, hell yeah, that's amazing. Let me show you the real

00:21:23.980 version and, and let him listen to Randy Travis sing that song. And I'm telling you, man, that,

00:21:30.780 that is such an incredible song. And he is such an incredible vocalist and musician and artist.

00:21:36.360 And he heard that he's like, yeah, that's, that's really good. Dad. That's really good.

00:21:42.120 Yeah. Randy's, um, gosh, uh, one of the greatest we've ever had. No doubt. And, um,

00:21:51.980 you know, I was fortunate enough. I've been doing the, these, um, Monday night shows called the

00:21:57.360 sequester today. Is today Monday? Uh, yeah. Monday. Uh, yeah. Monday. It all runs together

00:22:03.940 for me too, man. Like you're asking the wrong person what day it is. Yeah, I know. Oh my gosh.

00:22:08.880 Yeah. So anyway, I don't know when this is going to air, but I, man, I just kind of lost where I was

00:22:12.760 at. I was like, cause it's not, I'm doing one of them, but, uh, sequester songwriters night.

00:22:16.700 And we pick a different artist every week. And, um, and on Randy Travis night, I went to Randy's house

00:22:22.600 to do it. And so I'm sitting there in this room with all his, uh, ACMs and CMAs and all those

00:22:28.480 Grammys, you know, and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, singing a song that he wrote and he's

00:22:33.520 sitting, you know, I don't know how you wrote it, but that he did, you know, and, um, sitting there

00:22:39.900 thinking, man, don't screw this up. Don't screw this up. It's good. You know, that was, that's pretty

00:22:45.540 special. Did that, uh, did that, that attitude of like, Hey, don't screw this up. Did that get in

00:22:50.440 your head? Did that mess with you? And how do you get that out of your head? Uh, man, that's what

00:22:56.380 I said. Stop thinking, you know, just, just do it, you know, and it's easier said than done. Cause

00:23:02.020 you're, it's very easy to get in your own head up there. Cause when you keep telling yourself, you

00:23:06.080 know, you know, enjoy it, have fun, enjoy it, have fun. Are you having fun if you're having to tell

00:23:12.720 yourself, or are you just going out there and doing what comes natural? You know, have you felt like

00:23:17.280 that? Have you felt like there's points in your career where, you know, this, this, this

00:23:21.180 isn't fun. Yeah. Yeah. I listened to, uh, for example, you know, here's it. Here's what's

00:23:25.980 interesting. I listened to a lot of people and, and musicians that is artists. And I, and

00:23:31.260 I think, okay, well, you know, this is an individual who actually believes what he's saying right

00:23:35.200 now, what he's singing, the lyrics that he's using. And then, and I hear others. I'm like,

00:23:39.940 well, they actually don't have any frame of reference for that. They don't know what they're

00:23:43.040 talking about or they're, they're, they're telling a story that they're not intimate

00:23:46.000 with or not familiar with. But I, I listened to songs like, you know, hippies and the cowboys,

00:23:50.460 for example. And I think, I actually think when I hear you say those words, I'm like,

00:23:54.840 that's actually legitimate. Like that actually sounds like he really believes that the, the,

00:24:02.440 the words he's saying is singing are, are, are an accurate reflection of his, of his life.

00:24:08.680 And has there been times in your life where you felt like, Hey, I am chasing the notoriety or the

00:24:13.240 fame or no, I'm really doing this for the people that I care about or for me just because I enjoy

00:24:17.680 doing it. Um, that's a great question. Um, like I said, you know, the music and the business part,

00:24:32.180 I, you get into it just cause you love doing it and you love entertaining people and you,

00:24:35.460 and you love seeing the faces and the reactions. Um, but yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've been burned

00:24:40.600 out just, um, I would have never wished for this pandemic and all the, all that's been going on to

00:24:48.240 happen, but you know, having, having the forced time off, you know, I've, I've missed playing, but

00:24:55.140 you know, having some of the time off has been really good. Um, when you know, you miss something

00:25:03.780 like, okay, like Ozzy Osbourne, you know, he retired the first time and, and, uh, came back 0.51

00:25:13.080 with his retirement sucks to her because, you know, I read this article, he said something along the

00:25:17.840 lines, this isn't verbatim, but something along the lines of, I realized that I wasn't done. Like 0.97

00:25:22.800 basically he wasn't done being nervous before he performed. So he knew he wasn't done yet.

00:25:26.840 Um, I think when that nervousness goes away, um, I think that, I don't know, for me that I think

00:25:36.180 that that's, that's when it'll be over, you know, it sounds to me like, well, I've always thought

00:25:43.780 this, if I'm not nervous about something, including this conversation with you, do I really care about

00:25:49.840 it? You know, like, does it really matter? Like if I'm not nervous about it, is it really worth having

00:25:54.840 the conversation? Yeah, man, there's a guy up in Alaska I played with, uh, a couple of years ago,

00:26:03.160 uh, years ago named Ken Peltier. And he's a singer songwriter up there. And, and, uh, a good songwriter

00:26:10.020 buddy of mine named Kendall Marvel, uh, invited me up there to go fishing for a couple of days. And,

00:26:15.340 uh, anyway, ended up meeting, uh, Ken up there and, um,

00:26:24.840 we were talking shop, you know, just kind of one of those guys you hit it off with. And

00:26:29.780 we were talking about playing and, and, and performing and, and just,

00:26:34.000 you know, having a real conversation. And he was telling me about this, uh, this,

00:26:41.860 this book about Bruce Lee, he was reading and basically he had this, you know, saying,

00:26:47.920 you know, nervousness is a sign of preparedness. Now that's not from my mouth. That's, you know,

00:26:54.360 from somebody else. But I was like, well, that sounds like something Bruce Lee would say. I don't

00:26:59.020 know. I guess it is, you know, I mean, if you're, if you're nervous about something, I guess you're

00:27:05.180 doing something right. I almost wonder if you're not nervous about it. You either, it represents a,

00:27:12.360 a level of, of, I don't care about this, uh, or dilution, maybe even like if, if you're not

00:27:21.160 nervous about it, you don't realize the stakes of what you're playing. If you're not nervous about

00:27:24.860 performing in front of 4,500 people, and I'm sure that's on the low end of the people you perform for,

00:27:30.100 then, you know, like what, what in the hell would you be doing this for, you know, or,

00:27:37.060 or do you not realize that these people want to be here with you and, and, and, and celebrate with

00:27:42.500 you and have fun with you and experience this. And so, man, I love those nerves. I think that's

00:27:47.340 a good thing as much as sometimes we wish we didn't have them. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Right. I, I think

00:27:53.960 that too, you know, I've, I've been so nervous before a show that I've thrown up, you know, it's,

00:27:58.100 it's have you really? Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, I don't know. It nerves,

00:28:06.340 it's like, yes, man, that's, you know, that's a good, uh, it's a good thing. Let's, you know,

00:28:10.880 you still, you know, you still feel why do you, so why do you do it? All right. Let's say, let's

00:28:15.980 you're, you're, you're, you're about to perform. You're ready to go up in front of thousands of

00:28:19.900 people. You're puking your guts out. You're nervous about it. That's not a comfortable feeling, 0.98

00:28:25.780 right? Like that's not comfortable, which is what everybody wants. I always want to be comfortable.

00:28:31.520 So why do it? What compels you to do it when you could just be comfortable?

00:28:36.340 Um, it's still a rush. It's still a, it's a drug. It's like, what was it? Eleanor Roosevelt

00:28:47.240 that said, uh, do one thing a day that scares you or something. It's, I may, I may have my

00:28:55.820 who knows. Yeah. Right. But you know, not verbatim, but, um,

00:29:00.340 the, one of the best highs I can have, I've ever had in my life is walking off the stage

00:29:11.600 after I know we just went out and just crushed it. You know, the, the, the, you know, the time

00:29:22.400 on stage when you know, you know, everything's clicking, you know, that's great, man. And I love

00:29:27.280 that feeling and that, and that's a, that's a high in and of itself, but walking off the

00:29:33.340 stage and like everybody in the band is just like, like five and, you know, fist bumping

00:29:41.120 like, dude, like we just freaking killed it tonight. That's, uh, that's why that's why I keep

00:29:53.080 doing it. What makes a, uh, cause we've been talking about good performance and we've also

00:29:57.860 been talking about things where you, you felt like, you know, you haven't performed to the

00:30:00.980 way that you wanted to. What, what, how would you define a good performance? Is it something

00:30:04.700 that's tangible? It's something that you can define or replicate, or is it just something

00:30:08.780 that you feel like, what does that look like for you? Um, it's, it's a lot of feel and a lot

00:30:16.500 of times the room has to do with that. You know, there's rooms that I love playing that

00:30:20.400 every time we've seemed to play there, we just have a great time. Uh, cities are different.

00:30:25.260 You know, I have favorite cities to play. Like a lot of times the stars align, you know,

00:30:29.220 there's, there's, there's, there's towns that I don't really care to play, um, for one reason

00:30:35.600 or another. And I'm not going to dog anybody, you know, but there's, there's towns that,

00:30:40.840 you know, I love to play that. Um, you know, it's, it's just a feel it's, it's all feel,

00:30:48.280 man. It's, uh, you know, from the, from the way the crowd is responding to the, you know,

00:30:53.280 the way the room sounds to the way the band's feeling to, you know, a lot of variables,

00:30:59.000 but you know, when the stars align, man, it's, it's magic. Yeah. What are there some towns

00:31:04.240 that you can think of right off hand? You're like, man, I love playing this city.

00:31:07.660 You know, I have, you know, you have the obvious ones that, you know, that are just really cool

00:31:15.720 towns. Like, you know, Seattle's awesome. Um, you know, uh, San Francisco's great, you know,

00:31:26.420 love Boston, love Chicago, um, love Minneapolis, but there's, there's towns like, uh, Columbia,

00:31:34.940 Missouri. Uh-huh. Love Columbia, Missouri. One of my favorite places in the United States

00:31:42.100 play Buffalo, New York. I'll take Buffalo any day. Is that right? Yeah, absolutely. Um,

00:31:53.420 it's just all about the people or the culture or how they feel about you or what? Buffalo is very

00:31:59.600 similar to my hometown of Fort Worth here in Texas. Um, and there's probably a lot of people out there

00:32:07.240 going, what? Right. Sure. Yeah, of course. Seattle's, Seattle's a no brainer, right? Yeah.

00:32:14.080 Like really? All right. Let me hear this. Yeah. No, it's just, um, gosh, Buffalo, I think is probably

00:32:21.780 my favorite town in New York and I've been fortunate to, you know, to play, play in New York a bunch of

00:32:26.940 times and, you know, um, but I don't know, man. Um, you know, Columbia, Missouri, you know,

00:32:33.120 Missouri as, as a whole, the state was, was good to me, kind of my gateway to the Midwest. And then

00:32:38.180 I was able to branch out after that. Um, gosh, man, you know, what's another, like really just cool.

00:32:48.860 Oh man. I don't know. There, there, there's a, I could say, I could, I could list a whole bunch of

00:32:53.000 little towns, you know, right. I think the, so I grew up in little towns. I, I moved from,

00:32:58.340 uh, he, a big town and I'm in California to a very, very small town in Southern Utah when I was

00:33:06.240 13, 14 years old. And for the rest of my life, you know, up until now, I've never lived in a big

00:33:13.800 town. I've always lived in a little town, just, just, you know, a couple thousand people, three,

00:33:17.980 4,000 people. And I love small towns, man. It's just, I don't know something about it where people

00:33:23.180 know each other, they like each other, they communicate with each other. Yeah. There's rumors and

00:33:27.000 gossip and things like that. Maybe there's not as many opportunities, but the small town thing is,

00:33:31.540 is where it's at for me, man. Let me hit the, uh, the, the pause, the timeout button on the

00:33:36.880 conversation very quickly. Uh, this message is for fathers of boys between the ages of eight to 15

00:33:42.080 on September 23rd through the 26th, we are hosting our first ever legacy event on our property here in

00:33:50.340 Maine. And over the course of three and a half days, we are going to push and challenge you and your

00:33:56.080 son physically, mentally, emotionally. And all of this is designed to help you forge a deeper

00:34:01.780 and tighter bond with your boy. And most importantly, give you as his father, the tools

00:34:06.000 and mindset and framework to usher that young man into manhood in a society that is increasingly

00:34:11.440 dismissive and hostile towards men and masculinity. So if you're even remotely interested, head to

00:34:18.080 order of man.com slash legacy, order of man.com slash legacy, watch a quick video about our last

00:34:24.640 experience. So you can see what this is all about. It's really hard to do it justice with

00:34:28.600 these words or even a video. And then if you want to make it here to Maine for an unforgettable

00:34:34.180 experience with your son, do it very quickly because as of this morning, we only had four

00:34:38.740 spots available. So you need to do it quickly. If you're interested again, September 23rd through

00:34:43.260 the 26th with your son or sons between the ages of eight to 15, you can learn more and register

00:34:48.880 at order of man.com slash legacy. Do that as quickly as you can for now. I'll get back to it

00:34:54.520 with Cody. Yeah. You know, it's, um, we live in a very small town now, like the town we live in

00:35:04.780 is a K through 12, you know, one school. Yes. Yes. Um, you know, it's, it's a tiny little town where

00:35:11.700 we live about, I live about an hour and a half from Fort Worth now, but, uh, you know, growing up

00:35:22.460 and really I grew up, you know, uh, out just right outside of Fort Worth, you know, in, in the suburbs,

00:35:27.820 but, uh, but yeah, man, you know, we moved out here, um, a few years ago, really to, to just get away,

00:35:38.920 you know, and, and it's, it's been nice, you know, trying to, you know, get, getting a little

00:35:46.000 respite, but, um, so 30 minutes from the nearest Walmart. So there's, there's, there's, there's

00:35:53.440 this drawbacks, you know, it's got, it's, it's got its pros and cons, right. If you got to travel a

00:35:57.900 little bit to get some toilet paper or whatever it is, it, uh, at that point you're thinking, man,

00:36:02.460 maybe I should have done this, but I, I think the positives outweigh the, the, the downsides of it.

00:36:07.280 I do too. Cause I can walk into my backyard and like shoot guns, you know? Right. I mean,

00:36:14.760 like, I mean, we've got a, you know, we're have, have a couple of little stock tanks and I can go

00:36:20.100 out there and go fishing or, you know, go, uh, my son and I like to, we have a trap shooter,

00:36:28.440 you know, slinging skeet and, um, Texas is a great state for all of that stuff, man. Oh man. Yeah,

00:36:35.040 absolutely. So we do all the amazing, we'd, we'd rather be out, you know, riding four wheelers or

00:36:41.440 horses or, you know, all that kind of stuff. I wish I honestly, I wish more people would

00:36:47.320 experience that. You know, I, like I said, until I was 13 years old, I grew up in this,

00:36:51.720 this concrete jungle and there was so many people and the, the school that I went to had, you know,

00:36:57.220 like literally thousands and thousands of people in my class or whatever it was. And I didn't know

00:37:02.600 a 10th of them. And then as it transfers to, to adult, you know, I spent some time in, in lower

00:37:08.520 Manhattan, uh, with the previous company I was working with. And I just thought, you know,

00:37:12.100 this is cool. It's got it. I can see how this would be exciting, but then it's also got its

00:37:15.840 downsides because you don't know anybody and like you're around people, but you don't know a single

00:37:20.540 soul. You don't have any connection with individuals. Yeah. Um, you know,

00:37:26.240 my wife and I were having that conversation the other day. She could totally live like in a 1.00

00:37:32.820 downtown city area. And I don't think I'd have a problem with it if, you know, I don't know that

00:37:43.180 the older I get, it's like, man, I, I probably could do it, you know, cause the conveniences and

00:37:48.400 stuff like that. I think I'd still rather be where I'm at. I think my wife could totally, 0.96

00:37:54.260 you know, we had that conversation the other day. I was like, you know, we joke around with our kids

00:37:59.500 like, Hey, you know, whenever we get older and you know, you guys basically take over where we live,

00:38:06.020 you know, we've got to, you know, small, it's a very small cattle ranch operation going on out

00:38:13.840 here. Very small. I wouldn't even say I'm a cattle rancher, but you know, we have enough

00:38:18.100 everything's bigger in Texas. So I don't know what small is in Texas.

00:38:21.620 We had no, we have like, we have like, we have like 25 cows, you know? So we have enough cows

00:38:27.120 to get the ag exemption to, you know, help pay for the taxes and things.

00:38:30.840 Got it. You know, but, uh, we tell our kids like, Hey man, whenever we get old and you guys make us,

00:38:37.060 you know, move or whatever, it's like, I might just, uh, we might just go to the city and let your

00:38:43.080 mom live, uh, downtown for a while. Cause I think she would totally dig that.

00:38:47.140 For sure. Well, it's different. I think, I don't know. My wife's kind of, she likes the

00:38:52.600 agricultural area. She likes the more rural area, but yeah, there's some different appeal,

00:38:57.260 I think for women sometimes than there is for men. That's for sure.

00:39:00.840 Well, the funny thing about it is that when I'm on the road, you know, my wife, she basically,

00:39:07.480 she runs this place, you know, I mean, it's, it's kind of funny, you know, cause she's,

00:39:14.640 she's like, you took a city girl to the country and left her like, like, cause you go back out

00:39:19.800 on the road. She's like, you know, cause whenever I come off the road, anyway, you know, I come home

00:39:24.740 and I don't want to be around people. I want to just decompress and, you know, that kind of stuff.

00:39:30.840 And I come home and she's wanting to go to town. Of course. She's like, I've been doing anything,

00:39:36.020 man. Yeah. She's like, I've been out here all by myself. You know? Oh man. It's funny.

00:39:41.440 Tell me about, uh, tell me about your backdrop. Cause those almost look like coffins to me. I mean,

00:39:45.520 I know I'm not getting the full picture, but I'm really intrigued. They are really intrigued by

00:39:50.220 your shelves that back there, man. They are. Yeah. It's, um, man, this whole, this, I don't know.

00:39:58.140 My whole office is, is, is very strange. It's like, um, I have random things just everywhere

00:40:06.160 and hanging on the walls and stuff like that. But you're right. Those have three coffins

00:40:12.840 right here, but they're really not coffins. They're, they're individually pieced shelves

00:40:18.440 in the form of a coffin. Yeah. And everything on these shelves have been given to me. Like

00:40:26.880 like, this is all stuff over the years that, I mean, there's a Baylor football helmet, football

00:40:36.960 helmet. Right. Yeah. Uh, lots of, I got lots of baseball. I don't know if you can see him

00:40:41.780 baseball, baseball, baseballs down there, baseballs up there, baseballs up there, baseball

00:40:46.860 bats, just things, people, uh, Dukes of hazard TV tray. Uh, I was wondering what that was

00:40:54.720 cause you got the Confederate flag on there. So I was wondering what that was. Yeah. I,

00:40:58.320 I, uh, um, Dallas Cowboys, Dallas Cowboys, Superbowl football that I've had since I was

00:41:05.280 a kid. I mean, like, yeah, you know, just a little guitar up there that a little girl

00:41:11.340 gave me in Maryland that has one of my songs painted on it. I don't know, man. Just like

00:41:16.740 just cool stuff, you know, like I can't throw anything away. And my wife gives me a hard time 0.98

00:41:22.040 because if somebody gives me anything, I keep it. It doesn't matter what it is. I can't

00:41:29.300 everything. I'm very, you know, like somebody thought to bring me something and was, I don't

00:41:37.960 know. It meant something to them to give me something. And, uh, that's, that's all that

00:41:44.840 stuff. That's cool. No, it's cool. I'm really intrigued. I would spend a lot of time just

00:41:48.980 looking at the, the, the stuff that you have from other people. I think it's really cool to see

00:41:53.800 things that mean something, you know, they have significance behind them.

00:41:57.480 You know, I had one of my favorite restaurants growing up in Fort Worth is called Edelweiss and

00:42:02.640 it's a German food restaurant. And we still go there probably about once or twice a year.

00:42:09.300 And it used to be happening and hopping, man. And, and like probably the, the late seventies

00:42:18.700 to the early nineties was really its heyday. Mid nineties was really its heyday. So when I was a

00:42:23.980 kid, this place was like special, man, special to go to. And it's one of those places you could

00:42:29.240 walk in and just look at the walls for hours. Cause it was back when people used to have headshots,

00:42:33.400 right? And famous people would come in and the guy that owned the restaurant, he was pretty much

00:42:38.740 famous in his own way. And people would bring in their headshots and, and sign their headshots.

00:42:45.460 And, uh, and they would have these cool German theme, you know, he would sing and he was a German

00:42:52.540 guy, you know, and he would sing and, and, uh, live music. And this place was just cool and hopping.

00:42:58.100 And there were headshots of all these people. There was just random stuff hanging all over the walls.

00:43:02.420 Like you just walk around this restaurant for hours, just looking. Right. And that's basically

00:43:06.640 what my office is like now. Um, like I have just pictures of all kinds of cool stuff, man. Like

00:43:16.240 when I played, I'm looking at when I played the Grand Ole Opry, uh, that my parking spot,

00:43:21.660 the reserve sign that had my name on it, you know, in the parking spot is hanging up there.

00:43:27.200 I've got military flags that were, were flown, um, um, I think both, I see, they're both Marine flags.

00:43:39.120 I mean, that were flown overseas, you know, I mean, like just all this, just really rad stuff that,

00:43:46.360 that, uh, like, so yeah, my office is really cool. I love looking at this stuff still, you know,

00:43:50.860 like people that have given to me and portraits of singers that, you know, people have drawn for me

00:43:56.100 or, uh, you know, I have, I have this really cool headshot of Chris Christopherson that stares at me

00:44:00.820 that, that he signed to me. Is that right? Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Just like I look at it

00:44:08.480 every day. I'm like, man, that's really cool. What is it? What is it like? I mean, we're going to talk

00:44:14.080 about the Grand Ole Opry here in a second, but what is it like to know that there's so many people who

00:44:18.960 were inspired by the, the, the words that you've put together, the, the, the chords that you've,

00:44:25.480 you know, sequenced and, and the fact that you're out there performing, how, how, how do you take

00:44:30.220 that? What is it like to know that you're inspiring so many people through your work and through your

00:44:33.960 creativity? It's awesome. It's a, like I said, while I go, it's a big responsibility. Um, you know,

00:44:40.700 and, and you don't, when you have fans and people that wear your name on their shirt, on their hat,

00:44:48.180 or on their body, I'm sure you've got people with tattoos, people that get their, your name

00:44:53.280 tattooed on them. Yeah, absolutely. That is very heavy. Um, because that's your name. And

00:45:02.060 at the end of the day, that's the most important thing. You know, it, you can, you can leave a whole

00:45:11.220 bunch of material things behind you, but you know, if, if I can't leave my kids being proud of my last

00:45:21.240 name, that's my biggest fear, you know? So I, I, I hold that same regard, you know, you know, I tell,

00:45:30.600 I tell people this a lot. I'm not afraid of dying. I'm afraid of messing up. I'm afraid of messing up

00:45:34.880 on stage. I'm afraid of, you know, messing up, you know, just like I, and I don't walk around

00:45:41.160 afraid all the time, but you know, it's, it's like, I see people with my name. I'm wearing a

00:45:48.420 Ward Davis shirt where it's one of my best friends in the world. You know, I take it very seriously

00:45:52.380 whenever I see people wearing my name and yeah, biggest possibility. Yeah. How do you, so you talk

00:46:01.480 about, I'm afraid of messing up. It sounds like to me that that is something that I don't want to

00:46:07.420 say hang out, hangs over you, but something that is you're conscious about something that's on your

00:46:12.120 mind. How do you keep that from happening? What is your, do you have a process for that? Do you,

00:46:18.160 is that something that you're, you're deliberate, intentional about? Well, you know, I mean,

00:46:22.420 just trying to be, and I know that a focal point of, of, of this podcast and, and, and everything

00:46:28.500 that you do is trying to be a better human, you know, trying to, definitely trying to keep the

00:46:36.660 main thing, the main thing, and the main thing is, is your family and your name and, and not letting

00:46:42.360 those people down. The next thing is, is music and fans and, you know, things of that nature. But,

00:46:50.060 you know, like I have this, I love, I love my quotes. I, you know, I, I'm a writer, so I love,

00:46:57.840 I love writers and quotes and things of that nature. And one of my favorite quotes in the whole

00:47:01.640 world is by an author named J.M. Barry. And it says, be kinder than is necessary because everyone

00:47:06.920 you meet is fighting some sort of battle. I, I think that that's a really good quote. Um, another

00:47:14.200 one that I have hanging on my, my bathroom mirror is, is, um, if you're still excited about what you

00:47:22.240 did yesterday, you haven't done anything today, you know, so, and, and I, I try to keep everything

00:47:30.640 PG. So I'll, I'll, this is what I look at every day. When I sit down at my desk, I'll let you read

00:47:39.340 that. You don't even have to say it out loud. I like that. I like that. That's the key to life

00:47:46.580 right there, man. That's my, that's my little note to myself that, that I read every morning

00:47:52.360 when I come and sit down at my desk. I look at that, you know, it's like your mantra. It is my

00:47:57.740 mantra. And it, and it basically, you know, can you read that for the guys who are just listening

00:48:02.200 to this? I can, I can, I can, I can give you the edited version if you'd prefer. All right. Yeah.

00:48:07.180 Give me the edit version. I'll give you whatever you're comfortable with. It says, Hey, butthead

00:48:12.400 wake up and be a better husband and father today. Get your coffee and don't be a jerk. 1.00

00:48:19.740 So, uh, insert butthead and don't be a jerk. So we'll leave the rest. I like it, man. 1.00

00:48:28.900 I like, you know, you, you said you really appreciated that quote about everybody having

00:48:33.260 a battle. What's your battle? Uh, man, I fight depression. Uh, and that's a common thing with

00:48:39.800 artists and writers and stuff. Anxiety. I have, I have, I have really, I'm a walking, uh, I'm a

00:48:45.420 walking anxiety attack waiting to happen. But most of my friends, most of my friends are, you know,

00:48:50.800 in this, especially in this business. Why, why do you think that's so common? I mean, I've heard that

00:48:55.880 before, depression, anxiety, these types of things. Why do you think that's so common in,

00:48:59.360 in your line of work? I don't know. I think it's the same thing is like, you know, the sock and the

00:49:05.420 buskin, the, the happy face and the sad face that you see with, um, on like theater, you know,

00:49:12.860 actors, performers, you know, the happy face and the sad face is the sock and the buskin.

00:49:18.100 I think that, um, that that's a common trait, a common thing with, with, you know, creative people

00:49:24.520 with, uh, um, performers. You know, I can't tell you how many performers I know that

00:49:32.500 suffer from stage fright. You know, why, but why do that? Like, if that's, if that's your thing,

00:49:39.640 why, man, you're, you're putting yourself into arena. That's actually challenging that. Like

00:49:44.540 nothing else can. Why do that? We're nuts. I don't know. Why do you have anxiety? I don't know.

00:49:51.260 I do it to myself. I don't know. You know, it's, it's a funny thing, man, you know, and, and that's,

00:49:56.600 it's, uh, it's something that a lot of people in this business deal with, you know, a lot of,

00:50:01.140 a lot of entertainers have social anxiety and, and, uh, like when I come home, man, I'm,

00:50:07.240 I'm a hermit. I, you know, I may not, I may not leave the house for two or three weeks at a time.

00:50:13.200 Is that right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. A lot of your music has dark and heavy undertones,

00:50:21.040 which I actually resonate with. Cause when I hear it, I'm like, hell yeah. Like I know what

00:50:25.780 he's, I know what he's, I know what he's saying. I know what he's talking about right now. Do you

00:50:30.840 look at that as an outlet? Is it just you sharing your, I got to get this off my chest. Is it not

00:50:39.520 that deep? Maybe it's not that deep. I don't know. Where does the inspiration come from?

00:50:43.280 A lot of different places. You know, a lot of people ask, how do you write? Why do you write? What you

00:50:46.980 write is, um, most of what I write is first person stuff that I've been through stuff that,

00:50:53.180 or stuff that I know somebody that I'm close with has been through it really. And sometimes people

00:51:00.440 like, do you write the boards first or the music first? Well, some people do one, some people do

00:51:05.020 the other. Some people do both. I have, it doesn't matter for me. Um, very rarely do I write in third

00:51:11.140 person. I have a song, um, I have a song called David that people ask me about a lot. And it's,

00:51:16.160 it's probably my most people ask me about that song more than anything else. And it, it comes from,

00:51:21.660 uh, the, the aspect of, um, a former soldier, um, that comes back and his, his best friend has,

00:51:31.200 you know, gone off the deep end into drugs. And, uh, you have one, one end of the spectrum,

00:51:36.760 he has two childhood friends and, and one of them ended up on this side and one of them ended up on

00:51:41.980 this side. And, uh, and that song's really third person. I, I never that, you know, I wasn't in the

00:51:50.780 service. I, you know, I wasn't a police officer, you know, I didn't have a best friend named David

00:51:57.300 that got really messed up on drugs, but that's a story that a lot of people have. And that song

00:52:08.800 in particular was, uh, an exercise for me, uh, in, uh, in writing differently, uh, that I normally do.

00:52:17.160 Um, my inspiration typically writing in first person are things that I've been through. And I

00:52:23.540 co-write a lot more now because you can only write about your own experiences,

00:52:27.960 you know, at, at certain times you have to keep living before you can, you know, keep writing

00:52:35.480 about stuff. So I've already talked about that. We go before I get to that. Exactly. You know,

00:52:41.300 so I've, I've been doing a lot more co-writing. Um, and unfortunately, you know, being, being in the,

00:52:46.600 in the business, as long as I have now, I've gotten to meet and become friends with some really,

00:52:51.240 really great writers that when we get together, it's, it's not the Nashville thing. Like you

00:52:56.980 mentioned while ago, you know, kind of doing things our own way that, you know, writers that

00:53:01.980 are, are not going in for a four 30 session going, well, we got to write about a truck and we got to

00:53:06.900 write about, you know, this is what's selling today. So we got to write about that. Yes. Yes.

00:53:11.400 It's, uh, I have, I mentioned while it goes, his name's Kendall Marvel. There's another great

00:53:16.040 songwriter named, uh, Channing Wilson that, uh, uh, a big fan of his work. And, and anyway, uh,

00:53:24.820 we got, we got together cause we've been zoom writing. That's what, that's what we've been

00:53:29.440 doing. You know, normally we would get together and meet up, you know, but we've had to kind of

00:53:34.300 bob and weave and adapt and adjust and do like what we're doing right now.

00:53:37.640 So I'm, I'm actually really intrigued by that. So you're talking, you're communicating,

00:53:41.420 obviously you're working through concepts and ideas are, do you each have like, do you have

00:53:45.860 a guitar out and you're like playing through chords and music together on zoom? Like what

00:53:50.180 does that actually look like? Absolutely. I mean, it's literally like, I mean, it's what

00:53:54.840 you and I are doing right now, but it's sitting there going, you know, it's like, you know,

00:53:59.180 okay, I'm going to be, all right. I got this idea. It's in D, you know, just

00:54:05.360 not go to the G, go back to the D and then, you know, you know, it's, it's, it's exactly

00:54:14.600 what it is, but you're bringing up Kendall and Channing because we got on and it's, we're

00:54:19.540 sitting there much like this and you've got your guitar and you know, I've got my guitar

00:54:23.700 and everybody's got their guitars and we're sitting there and we're just kind of picking

00:54:27.080 and you know, morning, you know, how's everybody drink? Everybody's drinking the coffee and you

00:54:31.720 know, it's kind of how the kid's doing, you know, this and that. And I was like, man,

00:54:37.440 anybody got any good ideas? You know, this and that. And I was sitting there and, you

00:54:41.920 know, I was like, guys, you know, this was a few months back and we've been in the pandemic

00:54:45.780 and we're really at the height of it. You know, when we had the resurgence again, a few

00:54:49.500 months ago where it got big again. And I said, I was like, guys, man, I don't want to

00:54:56.940 write a sad song, you know, because that's what had been coming up. So we

00:55:01.660 ended up writing a sad song called, I don't want to write a sad song.

00:55:07.960 Very meta, right?

00:55:09.680 Yeah. You know? And so that's just kind of, and you just kind of try to take what everybody's

00:55:16.300 throwing around that morning and the kind of the conversation before, before you really

00:55:23.340 get going. And, uh, and, and you have, and it has to be people that you, that, you know,

00:55:29.740 sure. It's, I couldn't, I couldn't just jump on, you know, or somebody that, you know, that

00:55:36.220 you're getting hooked up with. Like if you have a mutual friend, that's like, Hey man, so-and-so

00:55:41.760 you want to write with so-and-so? Yeah, dude, let's set it up, man. Let's get, you know,

00:55:47.220 let's get that going on with the three of us. And, and, uh, man, I've gotten to write

00:55:50.920 with some really cool people that I might not have gotten to write with, uh, had it not

00:55:54.800 been, you know, being cooped up at the house and cause that's all we've had to do. We hadn't

00:55:58.840 been able to play, you know, so we, we've just been writing, writing like hell.

00:56:02.720 Yeah. There's definitely some tremendous plus. And you know, it's funny. You're talking about

00:56:05.940 being with the right people. You certainly have to grease the grooves a little bit. I've, I've

00:56:09.580 been thinking about that cause I've been podcasting now for, well, six years. And I've had some

00:56:15.460 conversations that are, you know, pretty clunky, right? Like, like it just doesn't,

00:56:19.880 that doesn't jive. It just doesn't work. It doesn't go together. And I've constantly been

00:56:23.460 thinking about how do I grease the grooves and how do I make this a seamless conversation

00:56:29.240 where it just flows. And I imagine your, your zoom meetings and your face-to-face sessions are very

00:56:36.260 much the same way where it's got to flow and you got to feel it. And everybody's got to be

00:56:39.780 working on the same vein a little bit. Absolutely. You know, we're, you have to,

00:56:47.600 it's, it's pretty much like real time, but there's a tiny, tiny latency issue. And so,

00:56:55.620 you know, that's where the video helps a lot because, you know, after you're done saying

00:57:01.620 something, you know, you could be like mindful enough to like, okay, lean over. I'm done.

00:57:05.660 You know, it's like, okay. So they're like, okay. Oh, he's done talking. He's done. Got it. Check.

00:57:10.880 So, um, and even cause on our podcast, we do it with, um, our bass player, Josh, who's, who's, uh,

00:57:19.540 been my right hand man for ever. Um, and then, uh, Keith, which Keith has done everything from drive us

00:57:30.080 to sell merchandise and now he's, he's basically my PA. And so we're the three, you know, we have

00:57:37.460 three of us and I do the fun stuff and, you know, just the, the BS and, and then, uh, you know, uh,

00:57:47.020 Josh asked the serious questions, the business questions. And then Keith comes in with the

00:57:52.820 zingers and, you know, kind of makes us laugh and stuff like that. So go kind of going with what

00:57:58.200 you're saying. You have to, you've been doing it for six years. We're on our second season. We're 10

00:58:05.140 shows into our second year. Um, I have learned a lot about, you know, especially doing it zoom

00:58:17.440 because we started doing it in person and then, you know, last year. So, you know, it's, it's,

00:58:24.640 it's, you have to learn, you know, and I'm, I'm still not that great at it. You know, it's, it's,

00:58:30.480 it's, I'm having fun with it, but, uh, yeah, man, I'm still learning.

00:58:35.480 Yeah. I, man, I love the podcasting arena. So I'm glad to see that you, you're getting your

00:58:39.680 podcast going. You, you said, uh, I can't remember if it was Keith or somebody else.

00:58:43.620 He said he was your PA. What, what's a PA? What, what were you referring to?

00:58:46.660 Personal. He's my personal assistant, I guess.

00:58:48.520 Oh, got it. Okay. All right. Got it.

00:58:49.860 I guess, I guess he just, he still does a little everything, but, um, and that's really

00:58:56.820 not even a great term for him. He just, he basically, uh, keeps my head on, you know,

00:59:04.320 when we're out on the road, he's the guy that goes, Cody, you got to do this. Now you got

00:59:07.820 to do this now, you know, that he's, he's my, I don't know. He's my, my, my keeper of my

00:59:14.820 head on.

00:59:15.940 Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's, uh, that's invaluable, you know, that, that was

00:59:19.840 somebody like that in your corner who can keep you straight, especially when you want

00:59:23.620 to, uh, veer off and try. And I imagine too, it's, it's probably indicative of, of your

00:59:29.400 career choice and your personality is to be, I don't want to say crazy. That's not, that's

00:59:34.600 what I'm saying, but like space could have, is that what you would say? Space. Okay.

00:59:38.360 Thank you. Cause I didn't know what to call it, but that, that's an interesting term.

00:59:41.400 I'm a space cadet for sure. Yeah. It's he harnesses it. Is that what it is?

00:59:46.360 Uh, he, um, he, he basically just reminds me of what I have to do when I have to do it

00:59:59.160 without pissing me off. Uh, when we're on the road, like I try not to be, uh, too grumpy

01:00:09.500 all the time, but you know, sometimes you get grumpy and, um, you know, he, the dude,

01:00:18.860 like I said, keeps my head on straight, but when nobody wants to even talk to me, I might

01:00:24.960 be having a bear of a day or not that I'm, you know, I'm, I don't, I'm not ever mean to

01:00:31.060 anybody, you know, but they know whenever they probably don't need to talk to me. And

01:00:37.100 he's that one dude that can make me laugh and it pisses me off when he does it too. Cause

01:00:44.060 like, it's like, dude, don't make me laugh. I don't want to laugh right now. I don't want

01:00:47.940 to laugh right now. And he, you know, anyway, so he's, he's been with me for hell, uh, seven

01:00:55.780 years, I guess now. Is that right? Yeah. He used to sell our merchandise and then drive

01:01:00.320 us. He didn't sleep much for about, about two years. He really didn't sleep. He's driving

01:01:08.540 and between shows and things like that. I can imagine how tough that would be. Yeah. Yeah.

01:01:15.440 He, uh, yeah, he's a good one, man, but he gets all of our podcast guests lined out. He's,

01:01:22.300 you know, that's, that's what he does too. So he wears a lot of hats, but all my guys

01:01:28.300 do, you know, it's, it's, uh, hell our front of house engineers are engineer for our podcast.

01:01:35.680 Oh, is that right? So they're doing both the shows and the, and the podcast itself.

01:01:39.620 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, cause hell we've been just trying to think of ways to stay busy,

01:01:46.800 you know, this last, this last year. And like I said, we started doing them. We started doing

01:01:52.960 it just because we were out on the road and I would just basically not even interview,

01:01:58.820 but have a BS session with my buddies, you know, and that's, we got off this portable

01:02:03.980 podcast gear and we would record them out on the road and our front of house engineer would,

01:02:12.380 uh, and if people that don't know what front of house engineer is, he's the guy responsible for,

01:02:17.220 uh, making all the sound that the crowd hears sound, right. Sure. He's, he's making the house

01:02:23.540 sound anyway. So he runs, uh, he runs a podcast too. And everybody just, I don't know. I got a

01:02:31.640 really unique group of guys. We, we, uh, everything's in house. There's, I think there's value.

01:02:41.080 Yeah. You know, as I'm talking with you right now, what I'm hearing is, you know, you, you're,

01:02:45.420 you're a regular dude, like, you know, you, you've had some, some level of, of, of notoriety

01:02:51.900 and fame and interest, and yet you've been able to be pretty grounded and, and, and just a regular

01:02:58.020 guy that people would want to spend time with or have a beer with or whatever, you know? And I,

01:03:01.700 I think that's probably why people resonate with you. Cause we live in a world of these mega pop

01:03:06.540 stars and social, you know, social celebrities. They're just famous for, for being famous.

01:03:12.160 And yet I see you as being somebody who's grounded, who's down to earth, who has your own goals and

01:03:17.140 ambitions. And yet it's pretty authentic and true to who you actually are. And I think people

01:03:20.740 resonate with that. I hope so. You know, I mean, cause that's the way we built our business anyway.

01:03:25.680 You know, that was, that was, that was how we wanted this, this band to be, I wanted it to be

01:03:33.560 real songs that people, real people could relate to. And, and, and if it didn't have its own leg

01:03:38.940 to stand on, man, it'd be better off just going away. Um, and that's always been how I've looked

01:03:45.040 at it. That's always how I've written. That's always how I'm going to write. Um, you know,

01:03:50.560 there's a finite amount of songs that I'm going to get to write in this lifetime, but you know,

01:03:55.620 the ones that I actually find good enough to lay down on a record, I want them to count and I want

01:04:03.060 them to matter. Yeah. Any, uh, any plans or anything that you have coming up that we need

01:04:08.600 to be aware of that we can share with the guys. Cause I want to make sure they know where to connect

01:04:11.880 with you and find out more about what you're up to. Cause I'll tell you, man, my, my family has

01:04:16.300 enjoyed your music. And every, every day when I get to hang out with my son and do those orders,

01:04:21.120 I'm like, man, Cody's hanging out with us right now. We're, we're, we're, he's like, dad, what's

01:04:25.280 this song about? I'm like, listen to it. Like, listen, like, don't just hear it. Listen to the

01:04:28.980 words that he's saying and see what, see if you agree or disagree. And we can talk about these

01:04:33.000 things, but are there plans that you have coming up? Absolutely. Yeah. Um, planning on being very

01:04:41.820 busy, uh, which is a good thing. I'm, I'm, I'm really excited, man. We're, we're going,

01:04:47.540 uh, we're going back into the studio in may. We're going to start recording some new original

01:04:53.760 stuff. Um, let's see. I think we're going to try to document it, like get some cameras

01:05:04.980 in there. Cool. That'd be good. Yeah. Yeah. It'd be awesome. I don't, I don't know for sure,

01:05:09.580 but kind of do a the making of whatever we decided to call this record sure right right

01:05:16.780 but uh gonna keep the podcast going um you know like i said go back into the studio but we've got

01:05:24.780 uh we've got i think four or five shows acoustic before i go back into the studio so we'll kick

01:05:32.640 off april 16th in lubbock and uh then we go to uh fort smith arkansas and then we go to new kirk

01:05:42.980 oklahoma and uh have a few days off studio time and then i we've got a lot of makeup shows

01:05:53.180 yeah you do you're gonna be double time soon man yeah i'm gonna be so sick uh this time next year

01:05:59.820 i'm gonna be so sick of being on the road but but it's it's good though you know i'm i'm glad

01:06:05.860 we're we're getting to uh to open back up and and and get back out but everything's on codyjinks.com

01:06:12.520 and you know facebook and um instagram and and all the all the socials all the regular stuff but

01:06:19.580 um gosh we've got a we've got a really really busy year coming up that's good man i'm excited for you

01:06:28.040 well you know i appreciate you taking some time i know you're a busy man i know you got a lot going

01:06:32.040 on but i i genuinely when i talk about that and i talk about your music and a lot of the guys that

01:06:36.960 listen no i'm i'm not what you would be considered like a music guy uh but you're one of the few people

01:06:42.960 artists that i actually spend a lot of time listening to and we have conversations about it

01:06:47.580 we enjoy our time together so man it was a real honor to be able to have this conversation with you

01:06:51.380 thank you for joining me well thank you i i appreciate it and uh you know that's bad anytime

01:06:57.540 i do it again i really i dig these man you know uh i obviously you know whenever we came whenever i

01:07:05.780 heard about this you know i checked out what you're doing and and all that all that good stuff and uh

01:07:11.300 uh yeah you run it man it's just like just sit down and having a having a chat man talking shop and

01:07:16.780 that's right all that good stuff so no thank you for your time as well i'm gonna make it down to

01:07:21.480 texas soon so hopefully the next one we can do we can do in person but i know that might be a year

01:07:25.380 out once you get done with your your big tour coming up but hopefully we can make something

01:07:29.640 in person uh work because that'd be a real cool thing as well yeah for sure you know what heck man

01:07:36.120 it's opening back up i just got my first covid shot too so good get it done get back on the road

01:07:42.400 get doing your thing that's what we need man we need people going out there and living their lives

01:07:46.100 and enjoying life the way it's meant to be enjoyed amen amen to that all right brother

01:07:51.280 thanks again for joining me you're welcome i appreciate it all right gentlemen there you go

01:07:56.960 my conversation with the one and only cody jinx i hope you enjoyed that one as much as i did again

01:08:01.160 very fascinating man uh has a lot of unique perspectives and thoughts and insights about

01:08:08.520 his music his career and just just life in general that i think are very applicable to

01:08:13.280 us as we want to forge our own path and make our own way and ultimately do life our own way as well

01:08:19.920 so make sure you connect with cody on the gram and all the other social media places uh pick up his music

01:08:27.280 it if you uh bought anything from the order of man store lately you'll probably uh we my son and i

01:08:36.780 probably filled that order listening to cody jinx just so you know so there's that as well so make sure you

01:08:42.740 check out the store check out cody's stuff uh his music it's phenomenal um i really think you're gonna

01:08:49.100 get a lot of who he is through his his music uh and then also make sure you check out the legacy

01:08:54.460 experience again for boys between the ages of 8 to 15 september 23rd to the 26th only four spots

01:09:00.300 available you can do that at order of man.com slash legacy uh let me know what you thought about

01:09:05.060 the show take a screenshot share it um on instagram facebook twitter whatever you can do to promote

01:09:09.640 the visibility of of this movement would be very much appreciated and not only go a long way in what

01:09:15.120 we're doing here but go a long way and whoever you're going to share this with whether it's your

01:09:18.840 brother or father cousin friend colleague co-worker there's other men who need this information need the

01:09:25.000 information that we're putting out each and every week uh and you can be the catalyst for that

01:09:29.060 individual to hear something that uh might might serve him well all right guys that's all i've got

01:09:35.340 we'll be back tomorrow for our ask me thing but until then go out there take action and become a

01:09:40.820 man you are meant to be thank you for listening to the order of man podcast you're ready to take

01:09:45.860 charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be we invite you to join the order

01:09:50.520 at order of man.com

Order of Man - June 01, 2021

CODY JINKS ｜ I'm Not the Devil

Episode Stats

Summary

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Order of Man - June 01, 2021

CODY JINKS ｜ I&#x27;m Not the Devil

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

CODY JINKS ｜ I'm Not the Devil