Order of Man - Connect With Your Daughters, Uncommunicated Expectations, and Systems for Overcoming Divorce

00:00:00.000 your anxiety and your nervous system are spiked because you're focused on something outside of

00:00:04.680 your control. And the problem with that is that there's no way to regulate your anxiety and

00:00:08.840 nervous system based on something outside of your control. You can't bring that down.

00:00:12.940 And the only way to control your anxiety and your nervous system is to what? Focus on the

00:00:17.420 things that you can control. That's how you bring yourself down. You don't think about it.

00:00:22.420 It's you getting out of your mind and getting into your body. It's called embodiment.

00:00:27.360 Yeah. Kip, what's up, man? Glad to be with you on this Friday as of this recording and getting into

00:00:33.880 the week. Do you guys have any or the weekend? Do you have any plans? Wife out of town, man. She's

00:00:39.380 doing a retreat at the lake house for a bunch of women. And that means dad works on all these

00:00:45.560 projects. I don't know what it is. When she's out of town, I go, all right, great. I'm going to get

00:00:49.700 all this stuff done. And my kids don't appreciate it, but it kind of inspires me to kind of button

00:00:54.040 things up whenever she leaves. I don't know. I'm not sure why I do that. Did you ever do that?

00:00:58.400 That's probably because you just don't want to spend time with your kids and you'd rather be

00:01:01.360 doing projects. And when she's there, she's there to regulate the kids. So you're like,

00:01:07.200 yeah, I guess I'll hang out with you guys. Yeah. They're better behaved. So I hang out with them.

00:01:13.460 Yeah. You're like, I kind of like you guys now when the wife's here, but you know,

00:01:16.440 when it's just, nah, not so much. Probably truth in there. I don't know. I mean, you know,

00:01:24.120 it's, it might just be that you're, you're bored, you know? And, and I think that's a,

00:01:29.460 that's actually, that actually might be a good thing is that you want to crank stuff out when

00:01:35.100 she's not there because hopefully the idea is that you want to spend time with her when she is

00:01:39.660 right. She gets back. Yeah. Right. Yeah. We'll go with that. I like that. I like that. That's a

00:01:44.560 better answer. That's the PC answer. The first one's the right one. That's the politically

00:01:48.460 expedient one. Yeah. Oh man. That's good stuff. How about you? Weekend plans? Yeah. Uh, well,

00:01:55.620 uh, lacrosse, we've got some lacrosse stuff, finishing up the canoe, um, probably do a little

00:02:00.000 bit of a hike, uh, on Saturday with the kids and just kind of a casual, casual weekend, not,

00:02:06.180 not anything too exciting around here. So it should be good. Love it. How close are you on that canoe?

00:02:11.640 Like, is it like, is this coming week you're wrapped up? It should be done. It should be

00:02:16.380 done this weekend, you know? So I've got to put the final two coats of poly on the, on the outside

00:02:21.220 hull. I've got to do a couple of inside, uh, um, poly coats on the inside as well, but the seats are

00:02:26.540 done. The yoke is done. The, the outside's almost done. So I should have it done. I would think this

00:02:32.100 weekend, hopefully. So maybe next week I can take it out. With an old school, like canoe, like that

00:02:38.000 handmade canoe. I don't know why, but it's just going to look stupid. If you have normal life

00:02:43.140 jackets on, I'm, I'm thinking like leather exterior life jackets, like a life jacket foam

00:02:50.640 with leather exterior with some leather imprint order, man. Look, I don't know. It just, you got

00:02:56.840 it. If you wanted to get me a gift, you know, if you wanted to get me a gift or anything, like I

00:03:01.040 would certainly be receptive to something like that. Absolutely. Handmade. Yeah. Handstitched.

00:03:06.000 Handmade. Handstitched. Yeah. Yeah. We'll figure something out. I might just have to go with the

00:03:11.420 traditional life vest for, for the time being, but, uh, or no life vest and see how much faith

00:03:15.740 I have in my. Hold your breath. Yeah, exactly. Do you have a paddle for it? Do you have to

00:03:21.280 I'm going to make my, I'm going to make my own paddles, but for now I'll probably just buy a couple

00:03:26.080 that that will match, but I will make my own and they'll be order a man paddles. They'll be rad.

00:03:30.580 Yeah. Yeah. Uh, that's cool. I love it, man. Well, we got questions, uh, from the iron council

00:03:37.000 from Facebook. So we're just going to hop right into it and kind of bounce around if that works.

00:03:41.760 Yeah, man, let's do it. Okay. Excellent. All right. Eric Dudley Jr. Other than the iron council,

00:03:47.860 what structures systems do you use to find, uh, the man you wanted to be after your divorce?

00:03:54.640 I am almost one year from my divorce being finalized. Yeah. I, you know, I didn't really

00:04:01.480 use a whole lot of other structures and systems because what we have inside the iron council is

00:04:06.460 exactly what I needed. And I know it's exactly what I needed because it's exactly what I created.

00:04:11.200 So, uh, regardless of divorce, it doesn't change. It didn't change. Absolutely. Well, the, the,

00:04:17.520 the ironic thing is, is that when I deviated from the system, it's what caused the, the strain and the

00:04:23.220 hardship in the relationship. So people, I, you know, man, when I went through my divorce and the

00:04:29.340 alcohol abuse stuff, I rightfully got thrown under the bus quite a bit and called a hypocrite and a

00:04:34.600 lot of people left. And I, like, I don't blame those people. I think if I was in their shoes, I'd,

00:04:38.500 I'd feel very much the same way. And I had a lot of guys stick around obviously and support me in

00:04:42.980 that difficult time. But, um, yeah, it's people used it as some people used it as a illustration

00:04:52.640 that it doesn't work. The system doesn't work. What we've created doesn't work. And it's actually

00:04:58.680 the exact opposite. It's, it does work, but you have to work the system. And if you don't work the

00:05:05.360 system, then the system will not work for you. I mean, it's as simple as that. So the messages and

00:05:11.520 everything else is pure. So I don't want to dismiss Eric's question, but what I think ends up happening

00:05:17.480 is let's, let's relate it to football. Let's say we've got 10 plays and then you go left and right,

00:05:25.860 and that turns it into 20. And then you've got, you know, little minor variations, different holes

00:05:30.360 on the run or something like that. And that might turn it into 30 or 40 plays. And of the 10 that you

00:05:36.620 have, you know, maybe they're just not working that well. And so what do people immediately do?

00:05:41.260 Like, well, we just need a new play. Let's, let's, let's bring in 10 more plays and it doesn't work.

00:05:47.500 And they're like, let's bring 10 more plays and it doesn't work. It's like, well, hold on. Let's

00:05:50.740 stop for a second and ask ourselves if a new play is what we need, or are we not running the current

00:05:57.180 play effectively as effectively as we could. And so as men, we're so quick on the trigger to bail and

00:06:05.260 jump ship. If we don't see results immediately, you see this all the time in the gym. For example,

00:06:10.580 a guy will be on the couch for 10 years. He hires a trainer or he picks up a coaching package or

00:06:16.300 a workout routine or program. And he does it for a week or two. He's like, what the hell? I'm not

00:06:20.660 seeing the results. I must need a new system. No, you need to work the system and give it time to

00:06:26.880 mature and time, time to work for you. So there's a trap and always looking for the next thing,

00:06:33.560 as opposed to really diving deep into what you're currently doing. The other thing it does when you do

00:06:38.560 that is you're splintering your attention. You don't need one. You don't need a million different

00:06:44.720 systems. You need one really good system and go deep, not wide. So I'm not trying to be dismissive

00:06:51.600 of it. I mean, there's a lot of great books out there. There's friends in your community. There's

00:06:56.220 other support groups in your area. I would find hobbies and activities and interests that are

00:07:01.220 surrounding you. I'd force myself to be around other people. I'd go to the gym. I'd force myself to be

00:07:07.440 social. I would not distract myself. I would be focused on making myself the project. Journaling

00:07:16.040 has been a good practice for me. And then outside of that, just pour everything into the system that

00:07:22.220 you're invested in, the Iron Council. Yeah. I mean, what I'm hearing you say, Ryan, is

00:07:26.980 the advice that we would give around systems after getting divorced are the same advice of if you want

00:07:37.520 to get on the path and take back your sovereignty and improve as a man, right? Like it's transcendent,

00:07:46.780 right? Pick the struggle. The blueprint of being on a path of becoming a better version of yourself is

00:07:52.960 is agnostic, right? And, and it kind of helps to be frank when we're on a path. And then when life

00:07:58.600 throws us curve balls and death of loved ones or parents or divorce or whatever, our ability to deal

00:08:05.360 with those hardships, when we're on a path of improvement of taking ownership of one's life

00:08:10.180 and being present to how we impact those around us, like it's the same, it's the same objective,

00:08:16.760 right? Almost agnostic. Wouldn't you say? Yeah. And that's, and that's how, you know, it's a,

00:08:22.400 it's, it's a principle based program. If, if it, if it varies based on your circumstances,

00:08:28.320 then it's likely not principle based. It's not universal. So let's look at it. Yeah. Well, it's,

00:08:35.300 it's, yeah, I would say reactionary. Um, it's, it's not steady. It's not tried and true across all

00:08:42.640 domains of life, but let's, let's take Eric's example. You know, one year post-divorce,

00:08:47.840 I think is what he said using the systems of the, the 12 week battle plan and the battle teams in the

00:08:55.680 iron council and the accountability groups and the conversations and the discussions and the

00:08:59.580 lessons, everything that we offer inside of the iron council will help you get through a painful

00:09:06.320 divorce more effectively. It'll help you become a better man. It'll help you in your next relationship.

00:09:10.560 But here's the ironic thing, using the same tools for somebody who's in a 30 year marriage

00:09:18.680 will actually help that person thrive in their marriage. We'll keep that marriage together.

00:09:23.840 We'll less likely lead to divorce. So it doesn't matter what end of the spectrum of life you're on.

00:09:29.580 It's the same system. Just dive fully into it. Yeah. Yeah. You know, back to your comment about

00:09:36.740 the importance of consistency, right. And sticking with the plan. So, um, I'm doing an Ironman this

00:09:42.460 summer and I'm not a good swimmer. I'm like, and I don't say that like, uh, you know, not like I'm

00:09:50.580 really bad. And, um, and I knew signing up for this, nothing's going to fix that shortcoming, uh,

00:09:58.980 better than the pressure of, I have this thing. And for the last two weeks, every single time I go to

00:10:04.540 the pool, I'm tempted to try something new. Like, Oh, there's gotta be a different technique.

00:10:09.900 There's, there's gotta be some different drill. Like, and it's like, no, just stick with the drill

00:10:14.460 that I know I should be doing, even though I don't think it's helping me, but it's only been two weeks,

00:10:21.240 like stick to the plan, but it's so tempting to go, Oh wait, there's gotta be another way,

00:10:28.680 an easier way. And I find myself like hopping online or maybe I should grab a nose clip and,

00:10:33.600 and I'm just grabbing for straws because I'm impatient and I'm not, and I'm not seeing the

00:10:40.500 results as quickly as I'd like. It's been two weeks and I'm, I'm so easily distracted on trying

00:10:47.220 to find another way. It's crazy. It's interesting too, in, in the realm of, of weights, let's say,

00:10:54.120 for example, you know, everybody talks about how the form, your form is the most important thing for

00:11:00.200 developing muscle and building strength. And I would absolutely agree with that.

00:11:05.000 The problem that we have as men is that we want to ego lift. We don't want to, because if I use

00:11:11.500 proper form, my bench press will go down in the short term or my squat or my deadlift or there's

00:11:17.120 less plates on that bar. Yeah. Right. And so you see the guys at the gym, they're ego lifters,

00:11:22.160 you know, they do, they're doing curls, but really they're not doing curls. They're doing hip thrust.

00:11:26.000 That's not a curl, but they're doing that because they can do the a hundred pound dumbbells or

00:11:31.000 whatever, instead of the, you know, 50 pound dumbbells. So yeah, check the ego and realize

00:11:38.100 it's going to take some time. Give it a second. Imagine if you thought the same thing about jujitsu

00:11:42.380 Kip. Yeah. Two weeks into jujitsu, you're like, I suck at this. I'm like, this, I must be doing it

00:11:47.380 wrong. No, you, you, yes, you suck. And no, you're not doing it wrong. This is the process.

00:11:52.440 Yeah. Totally. Yeah. It's a, it's a great correlation. In fact, I thought about that

00:11:57.780 the other day as I stand on the edge of the pool and I'm like, this feels familiar. I'm like,

00:12:02.440 oh yeah, this feels like being a white belt and going to jujitsu all the time. That's what this

00:12:07.240 feels like. I suck. I'm not getting any better. This is a grind. Just show up and just keep going.

00:12:15.140 You know, I went on a hike yesterday and I, I don't do a whole lot of cardio or hiking in general.

00:12:22.860 I like to be in the gym. That's where I get my physical fitness. And I was embarrassed actually.

00:12:29.420 I was like, this is bad. Like my, no, I was winded. My calves hurt. My, my, uh, quads hurt.

00:12:37.040 My hamstrings hurt. And I was like, what the heck is going on? But then you see other people

00:12:43.460 and that, that look like maybe they're not even as good a shape as you and they're doing it and

00:12:49.200 they're running. It's just, it's just because they've trained themselves in that, in that practice.

00:12:53.820 That's it. That's all it is. And, and you could look at somebody, you could look at an athletic

00:12:58.940 person and there's a lot of different metrics of athleticism, but you can look at athletic people

00:13:03.620 and say, that guy's an endurance runner. That guy's a bodybuilder. That guy's a power lifter.

00:13:10.420 You just have to look at their body type. And I know that there's genetics obviously that come

00:13:14.920 into play, but how is it that a human can turn their body into the machine that the circumstances

00:13:22.640 are demanding reps runners run, they're lean. They have long strides, lean muscle mass. They're not

00:13:30.440 carrying around a bunch of extra muscle or fat because that's what the circumstances demand of

00:13:36.460 its body. Yeah. If you look at power lifters, they're not lean petite people. In fact, in, in many

00:13:44.340 cases they're overweight. There's yes, they're strong, but they're actually overweight. Yeah.

00:13:49.520 Because they need to consume so many calories to be able to build that muscle. But with that comes

00:13:55.200 the additional, uh, fat, fat associated with it. And so, but that's what the situation demands of

00:14:01.820 their body. The body changes in order to meet the demand. It's incredible. Yeah, it is amazing.

00:14:08.380 It is amazing. All right. Joe Gunter, our brains are prediction machines, but the predictions are not

00:14:15.580 always right. What are some predictions that influence your relationships, personal, family,

00:14:21.120 business, and et cetera? What are some predictions that impact? I don't really, I don't quite

00:14:27.440 understand the question. Yeah, me either. I mean, I'll, I'll, I'll, all that I can. Okay. So let me

00:14:34.320 give it a, let me give it a go here. Maybe negative predictions that, that influence those areas of your

00:14:40.080 life. I mean, there's all sorts of predictions about in, in business, for example, what the market

00:14:45.100 might do or what the economy might do or who the president is. And so, you know, those are things to

00:14:49.840 take into consideration. And I think it is important that we anticipate things that will go

00:14:56.800 wrong and things that will go right. Uh, you, you've, I know you've heard of a SWOT analysis.

00:15:02.400 Yep. A SWOT analysis is an acronym S W O T. So strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats.

00:15:10.380 And so you should be looking at SWOT analysis. I think in every aspect of life, if you're getting

00:15:15.760 into business, what are your strengths? What are your weaknesses? What opportunities are going to

00:15:19.480 present themselves in this particular line of work? What threats, you know, AI, for example,

00:15:23.900 is a huge threat to a lot of industries. And that ought to be something you consider if you're

00:15:27.700 looking to start a business, even in relationships, you know, you, you start dating a woman, for example,

00:15:33.680 or maybe you've been in a relationship with your wife for decades. Okay. What are, what are our

00:15:38.200 strengths? What are our weaknesses? What opportunities do we have to grow this year? What threats do we have?

00:15:43.360 Where do we have little fractures and ruptures in our relationship that need to be addressed?

00:15:46.760 So I love the SWOT analysis idea, but I want to take this question. Again, I don't quite

00:15:53.120 understand. I want to take this in a little bit of a different direction. I think it's better for us to

00:15:58.900 be, instead of being results oriented, I think we should be more of process oriented instead of outcome

00:16:11.340 oriented. Because I have complete faith that if I do the right things and the right behaviors,

00:16:20.300 the outcomes will take care of themselves. Now we should be oriented towards our goals and desires.

00:16:26.280 And that's part of what we do with the battle planning process. But too many men focus on the

00:16:31.180 results. And what ends up happening is they start to control and micromanage every aspect of their

00:16:36.280 lives. They try to control the relationship and get reassurance. They try to manipulate clients or,

00:16:43.980 or the market or change their behaviors in order to pick up a new client or to pick up a woman or

00:16:50.400 whatever. And that's outcome oriented. And it's an illusion that you think you're going to be able

00:16:55.220 to wrestle control over that situation when you just don't have any, you have influence, but not,

00:17:00.160 not the ability to control that situation. Instead, just do the right things. Work hard,

00:17:08.380 make phone calls, make good products, be diligent. Look, look for strategic partners,

00:17:18.620 do business planning, hire coaches, hire mentors in the gym, go every day, focus on what people who have

00:17:26.300 the physique that you want would do. And just have faith. If you want to be a swimmer, go swim. Yeah.

00:17:32.560 Look at YouTube, like buy a course about proper swimming technique. Sure. Absolutely do that. And

00:17:39.020 then go swim and then have faith that that will produce the desired outcome over a consistent and

00:17:45.640 sustained period of time. So I think we should be less predictive in that way and more just process

00:17:51.020 oriented and let the results fall where they may. When I read Joe's question, right? The first thing

00:17:56.700 I thought is like expectations, right? Uncommunicated expectations. I mean, and that's kind of what

00:18:03.880 happens, right? He said it were prediction machines. I use this term or we're meaning making machines. We

00:18:09.720 had meaning and we have all these expectations and where they hurt us is they go uncommunicated,

00:18:16.260 right? His question was, what are some predictions that influence relationships, personal family and

00:18:21.920 business, et cetera. Most of the time when it comes to personal family, those are uncommunicated

00:18:27.160 predictions and they're not even predictions. It's kind of expectations, right? Rarely do we go,

00:18:34.120 Hey, it's probably not going to work out, but you know, I'll, I'll give some grace and I'll be open

00:18:38.440 minded. No, it's like, no, no, this is how they should show up. And then when it doesn't

00:18:41.860 meet my expectations or my predictions, then I'm upset. So maybe that's another way of looking at

00:18:47.940 this question for those listening is just be careful that if we are going to predict, or if

00:18:54.020 you have some expectations on the personal family side, communicate those. I mean, how unfair is it,

00:19:00.540 Ryan, for me to have expectations around how you should show up and you don't know about them,

00:19:05.880 right? It's your life. What am I trying to control and dictate what you do and what you don't do?

00:19:12.640 And I have an opinion of how you should show up. Like that's your life. It's your choice.

00:19:17.880 Now, if I have, we have a relationship. So in that relationship, I might ask,

00:19:22.000 right. And, and maybe see if you're aligned with the idea, but for us to put expectations on people

00:19:29.660 when it's their lives and their agency and their freedom is completely unfair. And this is why the

00:19:36.860 term, you know, premeditated resentment, right? This, that's, that's where this comes from. Because

00:19:42.100 in most cases, guess what? People don't show up based upon how you think they should or should not.

00:19:48.080 They show up differently. And then you find yourself, you know, pissed off all the time without

00:19:52.980 ever communicating it. Well, that's a great indicator too. If you're bothered about something,

00:19:58.420 you know, Kip, you and I have had things that have bothered us about each other, you know,

00:20:02.980 over the, over the time of, of being, you know, doing this work together. And if there's something

00:20:09.020 that bothers me about what you've done, what that means is that you've crossed a boundary

00:20:14.700 that I have for myself. The problem is I may not even know what the boundary is. In fact,

00:20:23.360 most of the time we don't. And I obviously don't know if you don't know.

00:20:25.800 Right. So if I'm triggered by something you did or said, and by the way, it could even be

00:20:31.560 justified. But if I'm triggered or, or bothered about something you said, you stepped over the

00:20:37.200 line. But if I don't know what that line is, I can't communicate that with you. And if you don't

00:20:42.440 know what that line is, you don't know how to operate. And I've said this in the past that,

00:20:47.540 um, I think I just said it just, just the other day or last week when we did our AMA is that good

00:20:54.220 boundaries make great relationships the same way that high fences make great neighbors.

00:21:00.240 So yeah, you, you need to be able, if you're going to err when it comes to communication,

00:21:05.100 err on the side of over communication, not under communication. And for most men, I think even if

00:21:10.740 they tried to over communicate, they would still find themselves probably right in that perfect zone

00:21:16.720 of effective communication. All right. Another question from, uh, Luxem from, from the city of

00:21:25.400 Luxembourg from Pascal. He says, I'm a proud father of an 18 month old boy, how to start slowly into the

00:21:34.200 woods. Do you have any recommendations of transport gear, how to carry the young gun? Meanwhile, 13

00:21:41.600 kilograms and 87 centimeters, all the best from Luxembourg. I don't know what, I don't know what

00:21:48.940 those metrics are. I have no idea, but I was laughing to you. I was like, uh, well, first of all,

00:21:57.320 congratulations, 18 month old son. That's amazing. And the fact that you're wanting to get him out in

00:22:02.520 the nature right now already is awesome. So, you know, he's probably walking a little bit, um,

00:22:08.500 not proficient enough to go on a hike by any means, but you could always go the shoulder route,

00:22:13.280 but that's going to get old and exhausting and bounce him around maybe a little bit more violently

00:22:17.400 than he needs to be bounced around for a long period of time. Um, but there, there, you could either do

00:22:22.340 like a front pack where it's basically like a backpack, but it's got a, like a sit in the back front.

00:22:27.500 Yeah. Yeah. And then you have the back ones. Yeah. So, but, and either one is fine. You know,

00:22:32.820 they've got the backpacks with the seat and like a little cover for, for, for the, for the little

00:22:37.180 guy, just use one of those. I don't have any specific recommendations, but I would definitely

00:22:42.300 do that. I would definitely have the front or the back carrier. And then the other thing is where

00:22:48.240 he's 18 months is, you know, take your breaks every once in a while. If you're out on a hike and

00:22:52.180 you're in nature, take a break, take them out of the pack, put them on the ground, let it, let him

00:22:57.040 lead, let him walk around a little bit. And he's probably going to try to pick up rocks and, and

00:23:02.380 he's probably going to pick up like a piece of deer poop and try to eat it or whatever. And like

00:23:06.660 he'll fall on his face and scrape his hands and knees. It's like, good. That's exactly how it should

00:23:11.840 be. So just let him go. And I think with boys, especially 18 months, I know is a little young,

00:23:18.580 but I think with boys, especially, you just got to let them go within healthy parameters.

00:23:24.120 You know, you, you don't want to control every aspect of their lives. And I think a lot of

00:23:29.540 fathers try to do this and there, it ends up being a lot of resentment in that because men,

00:23:36.680 as they get older, boys, as they get older, they do want to be more independent. They do want to

00:23:41.940 explore life on their own. They do want to get into a little bit of trouble and you got to give

00:23:47.500 them a long enough leash to let them experience some consequences, let them figure out some things

00:23:53.220 on their own, just not long enough where they get themselves into serious trouble and serious

00:23:57.820 trouble for a young man is very simple. Getting arrested, getting a girl pregnant or dying.

00:24:04.800 All the rest is managed. Everything else is good. Even that, even getting arrested and even getting

00:24:09.400 somebody pregnant is manageable as millions of people have done. But that's, if you can keep your

00:24:13.200 sons from getting arrested, getting a girl pregnant, um, make sure they graduate high school, get a job

00:24:18.440 like you've done your job. And the more that you allow them to work within the parameters,

00:24:23.640 the more independent they're going to be. So yeah, that starts at one and a half years old

00:24:27.580 because you just put the little guy on the ground and say, go and you follow him. And if he's going

00:24:33.220 to walk off a cliff, obviously, you know, but if he's on the path and on the trail,

00:24:37.840 let him enjoy it. He'll, he'll grow to love nature. And how fun is it when they're that age? It's like

00:24:43.780 what I, so I've had that same pack by the way, and Pascal, you can even get backpacking packs that have

00:24:50.780 like a seat for a kid and you still have stuff to pack your gear to go camping. So there, there's some

00:24:57.580 awesome stuff out there. I've used those when our kids were little and, and sometimes you can detach

00:25:03.120 like, um, the top as a fanny pack. That's what my Kelty pack used to do. And strap that around the

00:25:10.660 little guy, make him carry some, some little, his own little pack. You start doing this at 18 months.

00:25:17.640 Good idea. You're never going to hear the, Oh, I'm tired or this is heavy. It's not going to even be

00:25:23.840 on his radar. Why? Because you've, you've, this is just life. This is how it is, dude. So, you know,

00:25:31.340 hats off to you for getting him out there, you know, and making this happen earlier. I love it

00:25:35.880 when you, you bring your kids along with you, even though it's not convenient, right? The hike

00:25:41.680 takes twice as long. You're corraling him half the time. It's chaos, but man, you do this now. It's

00:25:49.140 just like skiing. You know, all of our kids started skiing when they were probably four and five and it

00:25:55.900 wasn't great, right? We're on the bunny Hill and they're crashing and it's, it's, it, it's an

00:26:01.640 investment up front, but guess what now? Guess what we can do now? We can all hit the blacks. Yeah.

00:26:07.920 And I have little kids that are kept, you know, that are skiing or snowboarding just as good as I am.

00:26:13.220 It's awesome. But we had to invest in, in those kinds of things early on to, to make them good at it.

00:26:19.260 You know, it's interesting. I just had, um, Paul, uh, Rosalie. I can't remember his last name,

00:26:24.800 Rosalie. I can't remember. I'm drawing a blank right now, but with, uh, jungle keepers and he's

00:26:29.500 pretty incredible. He spent 20 years basically living in the Amazon, just exploring the Amazon

00:26:34.000 and protecting the Amazon. The podcast came out as of this recording, it'll come out next week. So as

00:26:40.380 of the release of this podcast, it came out yesterday and late, I think it was late 24, late 25.

00:26:47.480 He and his crew, as they were filming some documentaries, uh, encountered a previously

00:26:53.220 uncontacted Amazon tribe, literally never contacted by the outside world before.

00:27:00.200 And it was wild. And this tribe was on one side of the river and, and Paul and his crew were on the

00:27:06.040 other side of the river and they were trying to communicate. And I said, well, how did you guys,

00:27:10.380 if they're uncontacted, they probably got a language that how, like, how'd you guys even

00:27:14.840 communicate? And he said he had a anthropologist there and the anthropologist knew the regional

00:27:20.540 language, but didn't quite understand their dialect, but enough where they could communicate

00:27:25.360 and know what it was because he knew the language from the area, although he didn't know their

00:27:29.200 language. And it was, it was fascinating because he said, you, we can't go touch them. We can't go

00:27:34.800 contact and touch them because I said, why can't you do that? And he said, because if we do that,

00:27:39.120 they'll all die. I'm like, what do you mean? They'll all die. They'll be exposed introduced

00:27:44.600 to illness and bacteria and viruses that their bodies aren't able to, to fight off. They have,

00:27:50.500 there's documented evidence that entire tribes had been wiped out because of introduction to,

00:27:56.880 to disease. And that of course happened here in North America when the Europeans came and

00:28:00.440 everything else, separate conversation. But I asked them the question, I said, do you think

00:28:04.900 that they're the life that they live, that they're happier or more fulfilled? And I'm like, is that

00:28:12.340 even on their radar? He's like, no, they don't even know what that means. They don't know what

00:28:15.820 happiness means. They're just trying to eat. They're trying to survive. They have six foot long

00:28:21.780 bows and they shoot seven foot arrows out of these long bows and they'll shoot a spider monkey

00:28:27.040 that's up in the canopy, you know, 150 feet up in the canopy and they'll shoot them out of the trees

00:28:32.180 and they just want it to survive. But what, the reason I bring this up is because

00:28:36.900 they don't know any different. They, they don't know what to compare their life to.

00:28:43.940 They were, they were pointing to the cameras and they thought they knew what guns are,

00:28:47.460 but they were pointing to the cameras and they thought the cameras were guns. So they said,

00:28:51.300 put the cameras down because they felt like they were being threatened by the cameras.

00:28:54.760 Um, they don't know, man. And I bring this up because your son doesn't know what life is. It's

00:29:01.700 right now. It's your job to create his reality. And if his reality is we're out in nature, we're hiking,

00:29:10.400 we're active, we're appreciating the wildlife and we're hunting and we're gathering and we're doing

00:29:15.920 all these camping, he's not going to know any different. That's his life. And that's the environment

00:29:21.220 he grew up and, and he'll grow to love it. Yeah. And if you don't teach him what life is,

00:29:26.420 somebody will a whole group of other people will instead. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

00:29:32.880 Paulo Bronco, typically as men, we have an easier time connecting with our boys. What are some ways

00:29:39.700 you connect with your daughter on a regular basis and how is your relationship different with her

00:29:44.860 compared to the boys? Yeah. I mean, daughters are definitely harder because we just don't have the

00:29:50.240 same activities and interests. Right. But that doesn't mean you can't be engaged in what she is

00:29:54.760 that you can't care about dance or that you can't care about, um, her having friends over and then

00:30:01.480 doing girl things that you don't even understand why they're doing it. Um, it doesn't keep you from

00:30:06.900 listening to their music, even though it's Benson Boone and Taylor Swift. It's like, I don't want to

00:30:12.340 listen to this, but you know what you do it and act curious, ask questions. Um, the thing that I

00:30:19.180 struggle with quite frankly, with, with my daughter is just having patience and temperance with my

00:30:25.340 attitude towards her because I don't get it. It's hard. I, there's a disconnect there. And so I'm

00:30:30.380 trying to be more patient, more tolerant, more understanding, a little bit more graceful, um,

00:30:36.940 a little softer than I have been in the past. And then I, and then I would be with my boys and I can

00:30:42.980 tell my boys one thing and they're like, yeah, cool. Got it. And I could tell my daughter the exact

00:30:48.180 same thing. She said, why are you being mean? I'm like, wait, what? I didn't, I didn't know I was

00:30:52.840 being mean. She's like, yeah, you're yelling. Like I'm not yelling. Or even when I wrestle with my

00:30:58.500 older boys, she'll come in and she'll tell us to stop fighting. I'm like, we're not fighting. This

00:31:03.360 is not fighting. We're roughhousing. We're wrestling. We're bonding. This is what we do. And she thinks

00:31:08.800 it's fighting. She interprets it differently when she thinks we're being mean to each other. So I think

00:31:14.280 just being softer is what I'm working on. I can't tell you I'm an expert on this. I know you have

00:31:18.960 daughters Kip. And so you, I know you'll have some good insight, but yeah, a lot more patience and

00:31:23.280 restraint and temperance for me is what I need to work on with my daughter. Yeah. You know, the,

00:31:29.780 I take a book from their cover. You know, I have, I have four boys and two girls and the four boys,

00:31:37.160 the three of the boys are older, right? So we, we did the batch one, batch two, you know, the,

00:31:42.400 the three oldest are in their twenties. They're out of the house. Right. So I I've been through

00:31:46.460 teenage years with these guys, little toddlers are all out. And then these two girls come along

00:31:52.300 and I didn't think I'd like it at all. I thought, Oh, they're going to be so boring.

00:31:58.780 But you know what I love is just how much love they come with. They're like packages of joy,

00:32:07.520 peace and love. And it's fascinating to me. They're so thoughtful. They're empathetic. They

00:32:14.340 think about people. They make me feel loved, right? Like the boys were fun. I never felt so much.

00:32:21.580 I don't just love. And, and so for me, it's just like, I take that from their playbook. I'm like,

00:32:28.520 got it. I need to give more of what you're given. So, so I'm more level lovable and more loving

00:32:35.580 with them because that's how they are with me. And that's, that's what's important to them.

00:32:40.360 And so I'd look to your daughter. They'll tell you, they they're showing you what they need from you

00:32:46.480 by, by how they interact with us. And, and that's probably the best thing I've, I've done. And,

00:32:51.520 and, and I totally agree. I never thought I'd know all these names of dance moves,

00:32:57.220 ballet moves. I didn't know there was this point thing. You buy these really expensive,

00:33:03.860 expensive ballet shoes. And then you like pay someone to ruin them so you can use them. Like

00:33:09.300 there's just some crazy world, right? Around dance and cheer and all these things. Um, but in the end,

00:33:17.040 in the grand scheme of things, and luckily this is present for me because I, I had this experience

00:33:21.180 with my oldest daughter. That's 15 yesterday is we just hung out, you know, we got some Jamba juice

00:33:30.840 and she talked about all the things that are frustrating her right now and told me about some

00:33:36.580 friends and I just listened. And to your point, right? Curious, like genuinely curious, not like

00:33:42.840 blowing her off, right? Like seeking to understand and being super curious about her world and what's

00:33:49.360 important to her. Um, and then I lean heavily on mom to, to help guide me in some areas. Right. Cause

00:33:55.160 like, dude, just wait until there's like, people are wearing training bras. And I'm like, I like,

00:34:02.000 what are we training? Like, I don't even understand. I don't know. Like, and, and I even thought like,

00:34:09.340 I mean, even the, the whole like period thing I thought was like, Oh, they're going to be so

00:34:14.980 depressed. Like this is going to rock the world. They're going to be, no, they're like excited about

00:34:21.100 it. And I'm like, what? Like, this is nuts. Right. And so I'm leaning on mom going, I don't

00:34:26.520 understand. Like, what did you tell her so they can deal with this? And they're not seeing it as

00:34:31.720 this huge negative thing. And, and so I'm just kind of emerging myself in their world and, and

00:34:38.840 trying to learn as much as I can. That's fun. You use mom as a translator. You're like, now she said

00:34:44.840 this, what, what did she, what did that mean? And then she says something completely different than

00:34:50.300 what you thought. You're like, cause I read it this way. And your wife's like, you're an idiot.

00:34:54.440 Yeah, I guess. Cause I don't understand speaking about not understanding languages. That's,

00:34:59.940 that's one right there, man. But you said a word that I think takes it beyond curiosity

00:35:04.500 into the realm of what you're talking about. And I've, I do admire and respect you for this. Cause

00:35:08.900 I see you interact with your entire family, not just your daughters, but the word that is a level

00:35:13.100 up from curiosity is the word that you use, which is fascinated. And I like that word even more

00:35:20.180 than curious because there's a deeper sense of importance, reverence, even to being fascinated

00:35:29.100 with somebody. It's not infatuation, but being fascinated by somebody is like, what makes them

00:35:36.720 tick? Why do they think like that? Whoa, they did this thing and that was special and unique. And I

00:35:40.860 don't understand it. That word fascination is really, really powerful with in any relationship,

00:35:47.020 but I think it works really well with daughters for sure. Yeah. Good luck, Paula.

00:35:53.900 That's it. That's all we got for you. Good luck. Yeah. Good luck. Um, Paul Dickman also book

00:36:00.860 recommendations on teaching young men, practical leadership and decision-making book recommendations,

00:36:06.880 teaching young men. I mean, I wish we had ages here. Yeah. Ages would be good. We,

00:36:11.720 if they're young, you know, way of the warrior kid. Yeah. Yeah. You know, if they're young way of

00:36:16.960 the warrior kid, I think would be a good place to go. We did talk about raising a modern day night.

00:36:21.780 If they're a little bit older, I think you probably could get into doing some Jocko stuff. Um, I think a

00:36:30.920 lot of the reading you, you should do as well, like raising a modern day night, um, man's search for

00:36:37.020 meaning, uh, wild at heart is a good one when it comes to understanding yourself as a man and then

00:36:42.720 understanding boys transition into manhood. Uh, those, those are, those are three or four that

00:36:48.520 come to mind right away. And you brought this question up last week. Cause I said, I wanted to

00:36:53.940 address it. The book recommendations are great. And, and you should be reading those books as

00:36:58.800 supplemental to the relationship that you're developing. What I would encourage more so than the

00:37:05.100 book reading is real world scenarios where they're in the heat of things. So if you're in the kitchen

00:37:14.100 and you're making dinner, your boy should be in there making dinner with you because they need to

00:37:21.040 learn how to cook at least something other than Mac and cheese and hot dogs. If you're out in the garage

00:37:27.380 and you're changing the oil on your truck, they need to be out there with you learning how to change

00:37:34.060 the oil on the truck or learning how to change a tire. Anything that a man is doing in his home,

00:37:39.780 if his sons are around and daughters too, I think this applies as well. Um, he should never be doing

00:37:45.120 it alone. If you're doing it alone, then you're missing a tremendous opportunity for one-to-one time

00:37:52.720 and attention with your kid, learning an instruction, the conversations that take place in that.

00:38:00.360 You know, my son, my oldest son and I went to lunch yesterday. Uh, we went to Jimmy John's.

00:38:05.820 That's where we usually go, but I take, I have, I have four kids. I take one of my kids to lunch

00:38:10.120 every week and I just rotate through. So yesterday was my oldest son's and you know, I, I just asked

00:38:16.200 him, I said, so I know you've got a couple of plans after high school. He graduates this year.

00:38:20.580 And I said, tell me what you're thinking. And he's like, well, I was kind of thinking lacrosse,

00:38:24.700 but if I go play lacrosse in college, I don't know what degree I'd want. I don't even know if

00:38:28.960 I want a college degree based on what I want to do. And so am I wasting my time? I still want to

00:38:33.940 play lacrosse, but he's like, but I could probably go coach somewhere or go into a men's community

00:38:38.740 league that they have available. And then I could coach the team and I could still be involved with

00:38:43.340 lacrosse, but I could start my life, you know? And I'm like, yeah, that's good insight. What would

00:38:48.580 you do instead? And he's like, I think I'm going to go into firefighting. He had a couple of friends

00:38:52.700 that were, were firefighting. No, uh, I actually, no, this is like, like wildlife stuff, uh, or

00:39:02.280 wildland firefighting. So I'm pretty sure, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, hot shots. Aren't those

00:39:10.260 the guys that jump from planes? Those are the guys who jump. Just the wildlife, the, the, the legit

00:39:17.000 firefighters that go into wildlife, like wildfires, like the forest and stuff, or they call them

00:39:22.060 hot shots. Oh God. I always assumed those were the guys that jumped out of planes into, into

00:39:26.700 wildland fires. But anyways, regardless, um, just to be able to have that conversation with him

00:39:32.400 and talk about what he wanted to do. I didn't even tell him what he should do. It was just a

00:39:36.920 conversation. Um, if, if I get a flat, my boys are in there. I'm like, Hey guys, we got to go change

00:39:42.180 the tire. Come on out. I'll show you how let's do it. Um, they run the store here, the order of man's

00:39:47.720 store and I have good conversations with my boys and they're making money and they're learning

00:39:52.440 responsibility. So don't get, I'm not saying you're not, but just be careful of not, of just

00:39:57.160 going into the book realm, the knowledge that the, the, the gathering realm and get into the real

00:40:03.760 world, especially with boys, like get out into nature, teach them how to hunt. If you don't know

00:40:07.960 how to hunt, do it together. Like this is what you should be doing with boys. Totally. Well,

00:40:14.480 and it's, um, you know, what comes to mind is, uh, in learning and development space, they, they call

00:40:20.980 it, you know, on the job training. Right. And it's 70% of most learning is on the job. 20% I think is

00:40:27.920 lecture group discussion. 10% is being lectured to, well, what's a book. It's kind of the latter

00:40:34.580 too. Yeah. It's being lectured to. So this is why there's power in apprenticeship. Why? What is that?

00:40:40.560 What, what, what's the power of apprenticeship? If we just back out from it, it's seeing it modeled.

00:40:46.440 It's coaching in the moment of what I'm working on. Right. And so to your point, Paul, like,

00:40:51.400 of course there's books, right. Use them, but I'd almost like use them for you. So you can model the

00:40:56.660 behavior you need to teach him and look for the leadership principles and decision-making and the

00:41:03.240 opportunities in the work that you're doing together. That's always going to outweigh the performance

00:41:09.320 of, of reading a book and then trying to figure out how to apply it to my life.

00:41:14.440 You know, the other thing I was thinking of, and I was just pulling up a couple of a couple of things

00:41:18.460 here. Let's see. I'm pulling up a couple of book recommendations that I, that I think are cool

00:41:27.220 for young men. Again, I don't know how old your boys are or your son is, but one that comes to mind

00:41:34.740 for me that I really liked was hatchet. That was a great book. Do you remember hatchet?

00:41:40.240 Yeah, I do. I mean, I think, is that like elementary, like middle school kind of age book,

00:41:45.420 right? Wasn't it? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Kids. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so the hatchet came to mind. Lord of the

00:41:53.300 flies is a good one. Um, fly boys is another one that comes up that I haven't read that one,

00:41:59.900 but there's a lot of cool books that are fictional that you can learn a lot of cool scenarios from,

00:42:06.320 and you could do it together. That's why I recommend hatchet. When we do our legacy event,

00:42:09.960 we always give that book to the fathers and sons so they can read it together, but it's such a good

00:42:14.500 book and it talks about survival and it's exciting and has wildlife in there and has danger and risk

00:42:20.920 and survival. And you can talk with him about, Hey, let's read chapter one tonight together or this

00:42:26.340 week. And so you read chapter one and then you find some time to talk about, Hey, do you remember

00:42:29.600 when he did this? And man, if you were in that situation, what would you do? How would you handle

00:42:33.220 that? And I think that could be way more powerful than reading a self-help book is, is the lessons

00:42:38.760 and stories through fictional work. Yeah. I love it. All right. Here's our last question from Jay

00:42:43.980 Reeves. Considering everything you've been through in the past few years, how would you handle it? If

00:42:49.480 your kids decided to excommunicate themselves from you and I'll, I'll kind of skim through his backstory

00:42:55.840 here. He says, my daughter has done this to me due to the way things went down with her mom and I

00:43:01.620 divorcing. There are a lot of elements at play. Her mom had an affair and became pregnant with another

00:43:07.280 man's child. Um, her mom became ill and passed away from cancer and I had a rough time dealing with it

00:43:15.020 and didn't always do it in the best manner. Um, I know this is hard to diagnose with without all the

00:43:21.340 full details, but I understand that this time is limited on the show, but my daughter has decided

00:43:25.980 to take her space and now I have no idea where she lives or her phone number. I've tried reaching out

00:43:31.540 by dropping off birthday cards at her employer, but I get no response. I've been blocked on all social

00:43:37.560 media. So all this to say, do I try to force my way in or step back and give her space? Like I've done

00:43:45.200 for the last two years. I miss her. I love her. And I want to know that she's okay. Thanks for all your

00:43:50.800 good work. Yeah. Brutal man. Sorry to hear that Jay. That's a tough situation. You know, again,

00:43:58.740 I'm going to go back to something we said before outcome oriented versus process oriented.

00:44:04.620 I think what you're doing is you're looking for an outcome from her that would make you feel better.

00:44:10.140 And I'm trying to be sensitive on this, but also be very honest. If you knew where she was or how she

00:44:16.740 was doing, it would be because you would feel better about that. And I know you love her and

00:44:21.480 I know you want the best for her. So I'm not saying that doesn't exist, but I think you want

00:44:25.440 some personal relief, which is understandable. But what you're doing, I think is you're focusing

00:44:30.520 on the outcome, man. If only we had a relationship, if only I knew where she lived, if only she would

00:44:35.500 talk to me, then everything would be better. Instead of just saying, here's how I'm going to show up

00:44:41.140 and what we need to realize. So she's, she's out of the house now and she's on her own is that people

00:44:46.820 have agency and autonomy and they can make choices. And the choices that other people make sometimes

00:44:53.180 are in direct alignment with our dreams and hopes and desires. And sometimes they aren't. And that's

00:44:58.540 horrible, but all you can do is what you can do. And if I were in that situation, I would try to find

00:45:08.840 the line between being respectful of her space. Like I wouldn't show up to her employment that

00:45:15.560 that's not a good move because not only it's too much, what you're doing is you're interjecting

00:45:21.680 yourself into her life and you're putting, you're, you're making it harder on her and that's going to

00:45:27.840 push her further away. Yeah. Just really quick. I mean, that that's going to generate drama on her job.

00:45:33.800 Absolutely. Yeah. You're adding hardship to her in her place of employment.

00:45:38.840 Which could be really detrimental. Yeah. I think what I would do in your situation,

00:45:44.980 if you don't know where she lives, you don't have her phone number, you don't have her email,

00:45:49.260 you have no way of contacting her, blocked on all social media things, is I would just,

00:45:55.180 I think what I would do is just honor her and respect her. I think I'd show up powerfully for myself.

00:46:03.060 I would get in better shape. I'd build wealth. I would lead my family. Well, I don't, I'm sure I'm,

00:46:12.060 I assume you're remarried. You probably have other children. I would lean head. You know, that's a,

00:46:16.820 that's a strategy too. And I don't want, again, I'm not telling you to use this as a strategy, but

00:46:21.500 if you show up powerfully for your other kids, I'm going to, again, if you have other children,

00:46:26.560 she's probably in contact with them. So if you just show up powerfully for the right reasons,

00:46:34.420 and let's say, hypothetically, your other children see that you've changed, that you're better,

00:46:41.760 that you're improving, she's going to find out about that. And also what you need to know is that

00:46:48.120 people stalk and they observe and they know what's going on. Former relationships, former partners,

00:46:58.800 children, friends, business partners. It happens all the time. So unless she's definitely not

00:47:05.620 interested. And in that case, there's nothing you can do about it, but she might have her pulse on

00:47:11.900 what you're doing in, in roundabout indirect ways. And what that means is that you just need to show up

00:47:17.960 as powerfully as you can. And if, and when she's ever ready to come around or extend an offer or a

00:47:24.720 hand or make herself available in a very safe micro situation, then you'll be positioned and poised to

00:47:34.860 be able to step into that softly and gently. So yeah, I wouldn't force it, man. Like she's already,

00:47:44.480 like the more you force it, the more pissed she's going to be. She's like, it's clearly through her

00:47:51.840 actions. She wants nothing to do with you in that situation. And that's so painful to hear.

00:47:58.160 But I think if you force it, you're going to make it worse and worse and worse. Live your life,

00:48:02.680 honor her, respect her choices as an adult, show up powerfully for your other family. And,

00:48:09.260 you know, think about her, pray for her, hope for her, love honor from a distance.

00:48:16.220 And hopefully at some point you guys will be reunited to some degree. Yeah.

00:48:23.640 Would you add anything to that, Kip? I mean, it's so, dude, the problem is, is that there's no

00:48:28.780 answer that says, oh, do these three things and then you'll open up the relationship.

00:48:32.100 Yeah. The key is, and the biggest key is what you said is be careful that you're not doing this to

00:48:41.620 ease your burden, right? Because they're just sniffs of manipulation. People don't like it. They

00:48:47.080 don't like to be controlled. You're disrupting autonomy. So stay away from it. But isn't it

00:48:53.600 powerful? Even, I mean, I know it's not the best, like, I know it doesn't give you the exact outcome,

00:48:59.260 right? Of what Ryan just said. Right. Yeah. That you want, but isn't it powerful that,

00:49:05.320 Hey, but you have control over you right now. You do, you can become the best version of our,

00:49:11.320 of ourselves. We can get our fitness in line. We can get our spiritual, um, place in line. We can

00:49:19.340 be emotionally regulated. We can foster on the relationships and, and the natural by-product

00:49:25.320 of that kind of works itself out sometimes. And that is the best. So what's great about it is you

00:49:33.540 have a lot of things within your realm of control that you can improve on that sets you, sets you up

00:49:39.640 in a way that when she is ready and if she chooses to, you can be there to receive, right? And then be

00:49:46.680 able to serve her in a powerful way. Yeah. So I, I wrote something down here, Kip. I said,

00:49:52.420 yeah, it is. I wrote this. I said, anxiety, you're in your anxiety and your nervous system

00:49:57.080 are spiked because you're focused on something outside of your control. And the problem with

00:50:02.160 that is that there's no way to regulate your anxiety and nervous system based on something

00:50:05.980 outside of your control. You can't bring that down, control it. Right. So it will always be spiked.

00:50:11.580 And when it spiked and anxiety creeps in, people pick up on that energy. And the only way to control

00:50:18.040 your anxiety and your nervous system is to what? Focus on the things that you can control. That's how

00:50:23.440 you bring yourself down. You don't think about it. You don't logically work yourself through the

00:50:28.680 scenario. There isn't a five part series that's going to tell you how to get your daughter back.

00:50:33.400 It's you getting out of your mind and getting into your body. It's called embodiment. That means

00:50:39.620 going to lift, going to run, going for walks, journaling, breath work, cold exposure,

00:50:44.740 uh, spending time with other people, engaged in meaningful hobbies, working on projects,

00:50:50.040 building your business, balancing your bank account. This is how you get outside of your head

00:50:55.260 and into your body and control the things that are controllable, which lowers anxiety,

00:51:00.400 lowers cortisol levels, regulates the nervous system, and very beneficially becomes very attractive to

00:51:09.380 other people. Whether it's your daughter or your wife or your friends and friendships or business

00:51:15.720 partners, a well-regulated man is an attractive man. And I'm not just talking about romantically.

00:51:21.460 Yeah, totally. Yeah. Self-leadership before leadership of others, right? And that's what we're

00:51:27.740 talking about. Can't serve people if you're not regulated. Yeah. Cool, brother. All right. Call to action.

00:51:35.420 Um, I mean, standard, right? Follow Mickler on the, on the socials, any other, uh, the forge. Do you want

00:51:43.200 to give us dates for the forge and where men can register? April 23rd, April 23rd through the 26th

00:51:49.500 of this year, just outside of St. Louis, I think we've got 60 or 70 guys signed up right now. So really

00:51:56.240 cool to see guys are bringing their friends. They're bringing their sons. If your son is between the ages

00:52:01.060 of 14 to 18, you can bring him as a son, um, or maybe it's a nephew or a stepson or a grandkid or

00:52:07.360 whatever, but you can bring your boy between the ages of 14 to 18, man, it's going to be so exciting.

00:52:11.980 Dwayne Noel is coming out. Um, gosh, the, the, the venue is, it's a, it's a Christian youth camp is what

00:52:22.980 it is, but they've got lodges and they've, we've got jujitsu mats coming in and they've got a pistol

00:52:29.340 course and an obstacle course and a lake and an Island on the lake and kayaks and everything.

00:52:36.600 It's like a boy Scouts for men, but we also have speakers coming in and presentations and workshops

00:52:43.140 and guys working together and early morning physical training and late night firesides.

00:52:48.840 It's going to be amazing. Last year's was so good and I can't wait to do it again this year. So

00:52:54.080 if you go to the men's forge.com, you can get signed up. And I'll even say this,

00:53:00.140 if you're a member of the iron council, it's, so this is a little way to hack the system. If you're

00:53:05.500 a member of the iron council, it's $97 a month, or I think it's $900 a year to be part of the iron

00:53:13.280 council. If you're a member of the iron council, you get a deeply discounted,

00:53:18.840 price to the men's forge. So if you're thinking about joining the iron council anyways, and,

00:53:24.620 or going to the forge, join the iron council, get all the benefits of the brotherhood and then get

00:53:30.140 the discounted, deeply discounted price to the men's forge. So that's at order of man.com slash

00:53:35.500 iron council and the men's forge.com. Take advantage of that. Um, it's a good little way to hack the

00:53:41.720 system and it's a benefit that we give to all of our members inside the brotherhood. Excellent. Okay,

00:53:48.000 guys. Appreciate you all great questions today. Keep the questions coming. I hope you're having

00:53:52.360 a great week and, uh, we'll be back on Friday until then go out there, take action and become

00:53:56.880 the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're

00:54:01.640 ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you

00:54:06.040 join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - February 04, 2026

Connect With Your Daughters, Uncommunicated Expectations, and Systems for Overcoming Divorce ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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