Order of Man - Correcting the Feminization of Society, the Value of Coachability, and Handling Disagreements with Your Wife

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:05.000 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.460 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.240 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.800 you can call yourself a man. Kip, what's going on, man? How are you, brother?

00:00:26.880 Good, sir. Good. We're right on the back and the heels of a very controversial podcast

00:00:33.000 yesterday. Did you have the chance to listen yet? I did not. Did you see what it was yet?

00:00:37.820 Uh-uh. Oh, I'm disappointed. Come on now, man. Well, I had a crazy morning. I haven't downloaded

00:00:42.520 it yet. No, it's good. It was with Bishop Robert Barron. It was titled A Primer on Biblical

00:00:49.420 Masculinity. So I got a lot of great feedback, and I got some, I wouldn't say hostility, but

00:00:55.700 some negative feedback as well. So because it's biblical or. Yeah, it's funny how many

00:01:00.000 people lose their minds because you mentioned the Bible. It's crazy. It's like, um, it's

00:01:05.380 just an interesting thing. You know, it's like, if you don't believe in the Bible, that's fine.

00:01:08.640 No problem. Or, or aren't religious or atheist or whatever. Like, cool. I mean, do what works

00:01:13.180 for you, but it's just funny how many men freak out. If you have that, don't push your religion

00:01:20.080 on me, it's a perspective. Nobody's pushing anything. You can choose to embrace it or not,

00:01:25.740 or extract elements that will work for you. But it's always funny. These people who feel

00:01:30.960 like they're either persecuted or somebody's pushing religion because they're talking about

00:01:35.340 it. It's just a very fascinating thought process to me. Yeah. I love other religions.

00:01:41.700 Like what? It draws me. Like what's interesting to you about it? So I went to India to attend a

00:01:47.080 wedding and that wedding was amazing. It was so cool. There's all these rituals and ceremonies

00:01:53.780 and like, who knows what's even going on? Like I, I I'm oblivious. And I got, I had someone sitting

00:01:59.540 with me explaining certain aspects of, of the wedding and I just find it fascinating. It is

00:02:04.640 interesting. Not, not anything. I'm just like, Oh, that's really interesting. I love that. Like

00:02:09.400 it's something we should brace. One, one example of this is if you or I found old text,

00:02:14.980 which is the Bible for all intents and purposes and we found the book of John on like parchment

00:02:22.020 or whatever, would you read it? I'd be interested in it. Yeah. Of course you would. Like you'd be

00:02:28.400 like, this is amazing. It's like some old written text by some individual, you know, so long ago,

00:02:33.600 like, of course you would read it. Well, here's another perspective. If you took the book, let's just

00:02:39.720 say John again, you took the book of John and it was written by, let's just assume a modern day

00:02:45.720 author with no religious context about Jesus Christ or God or anything like that. And you just

00:02:52.140 wrote it as a modern fictional work. How many people would be like supremely interested in that

00:02:58.820 story and be like, Oh, there's so many lessons here to be learned. But then you say, well, it's religious.

00:03:02.480 Oh, I can't listen to this. You know, it's just, it's just very interesting how many people it's,

00:03:09.960 it's, it's, uh, indicative of closed mind versus an open mind, right? Like you can be open-minded

00:03:16.240 without embracing or accepting the thought. And, uh, and you know, I have room to improve there just

00:03:21.920 like you and everybody else who's listening, but it's just a fascinating little social experiment when

00:03:27.500 we have podcasts like that. I mean, I'm sure all the time you read things or listen to podcasts

00:03:32.680 where you go, yeah, I totally don't agree, but, but you're not threatened or angry or upset about

00:03:39.000 it. You're just considering it and saying, Hey, you know, nah, I don't, you know, I don't a hundred

00:03:43.680 percent agree, but it's interesting concept or whatever. And, and especially when we talk about

00:03:48.380 religions, because why there's so many based principles that are shared across all religion

00:03:54.020 that it's like, you can't even make them wrong. They're principles, like they're not even

00:03:59.760 foundational principles of life. That's right. And they don't even need to be religious. Like

00:04:03.040 so many people follow these principles without realizing that that lesson was shared first in

00:04:09.500 the Bible, you know, but they're, they've adopted it because it's so ingrained into, into who we are,

00:04:15.580 especially in the state. Well, like I was going to say, especially in the States, but I don't,

00:04:18.620 I don't even think that's true just across the globe. It's so indoctrinated into who we are

00:04:23.160 and how we perform in morality and everything else. It's just part of us, whether you realize

00:04:27.920 it or not, it's part of you. It's interesting. Totally. Yeah. Well, cool. So, uh, can't wait.

00:04:32.800 We can't wait to download and listen to it. Yeah. Have a listen. Let me know what you think. And,

00:04:36.360 uh, yeah. So we started this one controversial just by talking about it. So it is what it is,

00:04:40.980 but hopefully we can answer some different questions for you guys and, uh, get you appointed

00:04:46.260 on the, on the right path. That's, that's what we're trying to do here. Totally. A lot of our

00:04:50.500 questions today were fielding from our Facebook group to join us there, go to facebook.com slash

00:04:56.660 group slash order of man. It's not just to submit questions to this episode of the podcast, but it's

00:05:03.420 also to collaborate, discuss, and to have meaningful conversations with like-minded men online. So join

00:05:11.440 us there. And, and Ryan also does a lot of posts of valuable information. And we kind of use that

00:05:17.140 platform to kind of keep you guys updated of different things that we're doing, different

00:05:20.640 events and those kinds of things. So yes, sir. Um, take the time and join us, uh, over on

00:05:25.420 Facebook. Yeah. Should we do it? Let's do it, man. I'm ready. All right. All right. First

00:05:31.000 question, Matt Horner. What is Mr. Mickler's favorite podcast? My favorite podcast, man, this

00:05:39.040 one, obviously this is all I listened to. I actually listen. I'll just pull up my podcast app

00:05:44.280 here. I actually listened to quite a few podcasts. So this is what all of you guys should be doing

00:05:49.680 right now as you're listening. Cause I always do this. Whenever someone says, Oh, I listen

00:05:53.080 to podcasts. I pull up my podcast app and I do a little bit of like, Oh, okay. No, do

00:05:58.680 a little ad. So what you say, I listened to London real, uh, the great man podcast by Steven

00:06:06.940 Mansfield, who is going to be coming on our podcast again soon. Nice. The Jordan Harbinger

00:06:11.160 show Joe Rogan, real AF with Andy Priscilla hands in daylight, Mike drop. What else? What

00:06:19.680 else? What else? Who's Mike drop? Mike drop Mike Ritland. Uh, he is a former Navy seal and

00:06:26.040 trains, uh, dogs, which is what we took our dogs through. So really good stuff. Uh, sometimes

00:06:32.160 occasionally I listen to Tom Bilyeu, who I think you're a fan of, right? Tom Bilyeu. Yeah.

00:06:35.360 Yeah. Yeah. I listen to Tom. Yeah. Uh, that's star talk, Neil deGrasse Tyson. Occasionally

00:06:41.960 Ben Shapiro, art of manliness cleared hot with Andy Stumpf. Um, mind pump is another one I

00:06:49.820 listened to. Those are a little long sometimes mind pump. Yeah. Yeah. Some of those do get

00:06:55.360 long. Um, Jocko occasionally. I don't listen to that one all the time, but Jocko occasionally.

00:07:01.400 So yeah, that's, that's primary my list of podcasts. Cool. I, I like, um, I try to listen

00:07:07.440 to different stuff too, you know, stuff that I'm not typically going to listen to just to

00:07:11.220 give me new perspectives and new ideas and give me an, give me thoughts on things I hadn't

00:07:15.600 considered before or don't really think about all that often. And it gives me a break from

00:07:19.900 thinking about all this like self-help stuff, which is actually important too. Cause if I

00:07:24.140 get, if I get down that path of self-help it's good, but it can be taken to an unhealthy

00:07:30.680 level where everything's got to be productive and you've got to be hustling and grinding

00:07:33.920 and all these little buzzwords that we like to use. And it just gets exhausting sometimes

00:07:37.680 and you just needed like a, like a mental break from all of that stuff at times. So I do try

00:07:43.440 to live. That's why I like star talk and things like that. That's funny. I added, um, business

00:07:48.300 wars, business wars, that highly entertaining. I haven't listened to it. I have to check it out.

00:07:52.080 It's really interesting. Yeah. Yeah. They cover like a history of like, I don't know,

00:07:56.680 Burger King versus McDonald's. Oh, that's cool. Like how those two went to war with each other

00:08:02.680 or versus Airbus. And it's really interesting. Sweet. Yeah. Is Airbus is Airbus different than

00:08:11.840 Boeing? Yeah. Oh, you just insulted like tons of people. No, is it, is it its own? I thought

00:08:18.260 Airbus was like a model. It's a, but it's a, it's a company. It's a manufacturer. Yeah.

00:08:23.180 Oh, I didn't know that. Airbus was formed by a number of different

00:08:27.080 countries in Europe. Oh, I thought it was a model is what I thought it was to

00:08:31.180 compete against American airline manufacturers. Well, I just shared some of my, my ignorance

00:08:35.140 there. So. Hey, well, and, and because of business wars, I sounded smart. Yes. Cause

00:08:40.320 I didn't know that until I listened to that episode. It's like, I didn't even know that

00:08:45.160 either. No. All right. What else we got? Good first question. There's the first, there's

00:08:49.140 the first one cranked out of the way Rick diamond. Uh, what do you do when you feel a

00:08:53.880 decision is right for your family, but your wife is not on board and is mad because she

00:08:59.600 feels like you're not listening to her. Well, I think this conversation actually

00:09:03.940 starts before this decision's being made because yeah, there's going to be to some choices that

00:09:08.560 you think are going to be the right path that she's not necessarily going to agree with

00:09:11.980 some more pressing than others, right? Some more relevant than others. Uh, but if you can build

00:09:17.080 up that level of trust before you get to that decision by leading the family in the right

00:09:21.800 path and doing what you say you're going to do and constantly improving and excelling and

00:09:25.520 advancing in your career and getting your health in check, you position yourself as someone who is

00:09:29.860 credible and has the authority to, uh, for somebody else to voluntarily follow. So if I trust you,

00:09:38.240 for example, Kip, I may not entirely agree with everything that you say or want to do,

00:09:43.940 but I'm more inclined to follow you. Even if I don't totally agree, or if I'm not on board

00:09:49.340 because you've built up a level of trust and credibility that I can, as somebody who is

00:09:54.960 potentially going to follow you rely on, uh, that, you know what Kip hasn't led me astray before.

00:10:00.640 Uh, he's had a lot of success here. So even though I don't agree, maybe he has a perspective or

00:10:05.220 something I don't consider. So we build up levels of trust through previous actions. And that way,

00:10:10.860 when there's disagreements, uh, that that's used as a, as a, uh, a variable, a factor that another

00:10:17.820 party, in this case, your wife would consider when deciding whether or not to go along or not.

00:10:22.560 Now that said, it sounds like that time has come and gone right now. You're at decision time.

00:10:27.320 A couple of things you have to decide first and foremost, is this a battle worth fighting for?

00:10:33.020 Like, I don't know the context of the decisions you guys are talking about, but is this something that

00:10:37.040 is very important to you? Because if it's not important, then let her run. No, no big deal.

00:10:41.380 Right. If it's not relevant or you're, you know, you're 50, 50 on it and she has a different idea

00:10:45.520 and she's more convicted about that idea and it doesn't matter to you, then it's okay to like,

00:10:50.640 let her have this one, if you will. Right. So that's something to consider. Now, if it is something

00:10:54.740 where you're strongly convicted about, uh, this is a PR campaign at this point, like you've got to go

00:11:00.800 on a PR campaign. You've got to market it. You've got to tell her why it's a good thing. You've got to

00:11:04.160 eliminate a lot of the uncertainty and risk. Cause I'm telling you right now, that's probably what

00:11:08.540 she's considering. Because if you look at men, the difference, some of the differences between

00:11:13.640 men and women, men are more inclined to take calculated risks than women are right. That that's

00:11:19.340 just, that's just the way that we're hardwired. Men go out, they battle, they protect, they defend.

00:11:23.960 We've, we've talked to length about this. So we're more inclined to take risks, especially when it

00:11:28.780 comes to career, uh, financial risk, even potentially moving. So now you need to, uh,

00:11:37.000 really sell this thing by explaining her the features and the benefits you need to eliminate

00:11:42.460 concerns. You need to shore up uncertainties and you need to shed light on everything that she might be

00:11:47.660 fearful about. So I would highly encourage you to listen to her. And even if she's not telling you

00:11:53.140 exactly what her concerns and frustrations are, look for little cues and, and hints that explain

00:11:59.680 what it is she's experiencing. Like, why is she not on board? And I would, I'd be willing to put

00:12:05.340 money on the fact that she's not willing to be on board because there's an element of uncertainty

00:12:11.600 or fear or concern about the unknown. It's the element of risk that's causing this rift. I'd be

00:12:18.180 willing to bet on that. So you've got to minimize the risk and explain why this would be a good thing

00:12:24.300 and how you're going to mitigate any potential loss or risk that could potentially arise because of this

00:12:29.040 decision you're making. That's just, that's a good advice I can give in a general manner, because I

00:12:33.860 don't, I don't know the context of what you're dealing with. I think that's solid, right? I'm walking

00:12:37.760 away from your response thinking, okay, one establishing that deposit with my spouse.

00:12:44.440 So when this time comes, it's not as debatable, right? That I'm a trustworthy and, and, and I'm

00:12:51.240 really seeing this as me looking at this and saying, Hey, my wife does this a lot. Okay. Well,

00:12:55.620 I'm probably out of integrity a lot where I'm saying I'll do something. I'm not, I haven't proved,

00:13:00.400 I don't have a proven track record. Like there's a lot that needs to be happening on a day-to-day basis.

00:13:05.620 So when these scenarios come up, you know, I'm in a trustworthy relationship where she knows that I

00:13:12.060 wouldn't put us in harm's way or, you know what I mean? Making a sound decision on our part. So

00:13:15.520 I think that is really profound. And I think the other thing is profound too, is, and it's funny

00:13:20.920 that, that this question came up because just the other week something came up and I can't remember

00:13:25.580 what it was. Oh, this is, I don't know. Uh, she sent me a text message and she said she was out of

00:13:33.520 town. She's like, Hey, just so you know, I told Ian, no, she started off like, I know this might make

00:13:39.800 you upset or whatever, you know, like a really old thing. Yeah. This huge buffer. And it was about

00:13:46.380 in my son going out and starting the cars before we go out and drive off. And I'm old school, right?

00:13:53.560 Like as a kid, it's like, my parents are always like, go outside, start the car, warm them up or

00:13:57.380 whatever. And someone told my spouse of like, Hey, modern, uh, modern cars, like you don't really

00:14:03.820 need to warm them up. And it's actually probably more negative than positive to actually have them

00:14:08.580 running and whatever. Right. And, and I, I'm not a gearhead, so I don't know if that's true or

00:14:13.840 accurate or whatever. But the point was, is she thought I was going to get upset about this idea

00:14:18.360 of, and I really was like, I don't care. I don't care. But my point is, is like,

00:14:24.100 but apparently I care about way too many things that aren't that important for her to be immediately

00:14:29.600 assumed that we're going to get in a debate or her to have that concern. Exactly. And I think,

00:14:33.740 oh, okay. I'm not, I'm not letting her not win, but you know what I mean? I'm probably debating

00:14:39.080 way too often that, that she's thinking we're going to debate over something lame like this.

00:14:43.300 Right. I'm like, I don't care. Right. You know? So I'm like, okay.

00:14:47.420 It's just something to evaluate. And, and, and I don't think you're suggesting this and I'm

00:14:51.300 certainly not is like, you're not going to roll over, you know, we're not suggesting you roll over,

00:14:55.260 especially on issues, your battles, but does it matter? Yes. Cool. Then PR campaign,

00:15:00.600 does it not matter? Cool. Let it go. Let her have this one. It's okay.

00:15:04.000 Yeah. Totally. All right. Eric page, as many will notice the lack of actual education,

00:15:09.040 most students get in school nowadays. I'm wondering what type of extra education do you give your kids

00:15:13.900 beyond, beyond setting the example of teaching your sons to be men? Do you give them extra math

00:15:19.040 problems, spelling words, assign them books to read and anything else of that nature?

00:15:24.420 Yeah. I like this question because, you know, if you look at the educational system,

00:15:27.200 it's really designed to teach children what to think, not how to think, right? You've got to memorize

00:15:31.580 your times tables. Here's proper grammar and punctuation. Here's how you write an essay.

00:15:37.040 Here's how you, a lot of members. Exactly. Which I'm not saying you shouldn't have that stuff. I mean,

00:15:41.620 we all need some foundational knowledge. Like we need to know our times tables. My second son is going

00:15:45.740 through that right now. And he's like, I don't want to memorize. This is stupid. I'm like, you'll

00:15:49.160 actually use this stuff. You know, like it is important. And some of it, yes, it's just memorization.

00:15:54.360 So I'm not downplaying the importance of having this information, but where the traditional

00:16:00.120 educational system falls short is practical application and how to think about these things.

00:16:07.220 So the way that I've fostered this in my children, and I'm attempting to is getting them involved in

00:16:13.320 as many real world scenarios and letting them lead in as many of those scenarios as possible.

00:16:17.700 And then just asking good questions. So they start thinking about the problems and the issues and

00:16:22.840 everything that they might be dealing with. So my oldest son, many of, you know, is our store

00:16:27.080 manager. So every order that is purchased in the store, he ships, he orders, or excuse me,

00:16:32.700 he packages, he orders the supplies. When, when we're low, he goes in and he inventories and he says,

00:16:38.100 dad, we've got to make, you know, this order and we've got to order these boxes or this much tape.

00:16:43.000 And, and then he goes in and he's able to see, you know, how much money he's made based on how

00:16:47.760 many packages he's sent. So I'm constantly talking with him about, okay, how do we capitalize this on

00:16:54.260 this? One day he came to me, this was probably eight months or so ago, and he had been on Amazon

00:16:59.300 and he was looking for boxes. And he said, dad, we normally get these boxes. And I think they were,

00:17:04.460 I don't know, maybe they were like a dollar 50 or a dollar a box, something. Right. And he said,

00:17:10.300 but these boxes, they're just as good. And they're 80 cents a box. And I'm just using those numbers.

00:17:16.220 I can't remember exactly what it was. He's like, that means that every time we sell a hat and we

00:17:20.200 package it in one of these, we make 30 cents more with like no extra effort. Now he's thinking about

00:17:27.220 it, right? Like I was so proud that he was thinking about it from that context. So not only did he know

00:17:31.720 his times tables and how to add and subtract, now he learned how to apply it practically so that we

00:17:38.100 could create a better scenario for ourselves and for our customers in this case as well. So these are,

00:17:43.520 these are things that you can do. Like anytime there's real world scenarios or there's problems

00:17:50.180 the other day, I'll give you another example. The other day we had to measure some, some space in

00:17:56.420 our house because we're going to do some hardwood flooring in the front area of our, of our space,

00:18:00.020 which is carpeted now. And my wife said, Hey, will you let me know how much we need to order? I said,

00:18:03.900 yeah, come on out with me to my second son. And I said, how are we going to figure out how much

00:18:08.760 wood to order? And he's like, I don't know. And I said, well, we need to find out the square footage

00:18:13.860 is what we need to look for. And he's like, okay. And I said, have you ever heard of that? Do you

00:18:17.560 know what that is? He's like, no, I have no idea. And I said, well, you're going to use some of your

00:18:21.140 times tables here that we've been working on, but here's what square footage is. And so I said,

00:18:25.620 grab the tape measure, pull it down here. And we measured the length and the width and then

00:18:28.780 multiplied them and we figured it out. Right. But we took his foundational knowledge of times

00:18:34.900 tables and what he's learning and then applied it practically. So that is how we expand the age

00:18:40.920 of educational and learning processes. We say, okay, here's what you know now as a father and a

00:18:46.520 leader of your children, how do you apply it? In what situation would this actually make sense?

00:18:52.860 You know, if you're looking at a grammar, for example, my oldest son, he knows punctuation. He

00:18:58.000 knows the proper way to put together a sentence. He knows adjectives and verbs and pronouns and et cetera,

00:19:02.920 et cetera. Now, one of the things he did when we very first started with the shipping is I said,

00:19:09.480 Hey, why don't you write just a note, you know, a letter and we'll print it on note cards. And then

00:19:14.540 that way, everybody who orders something, you'll sign it. And so he wrote this, this, this little

00:19:20.220 paragraph. And I went in there and I said, okay, well, here's some punctuation errors. Here's some

00:19:23.940 grammatical errors. And here's why this is important. You know, people need to know that we're

00:19:28.940 professional, that we take this seriously. They need to be able to understand what we're talking

00:19:32.780 about. So you take the knowledge and then you couple it with practical application. And I think

00:19:38.040 you're really going to set, set your kids up for success, but let them experience it. Let them,

00:19:41.920 let them try, let them struggle through it a little bit and let them apply the information

00:19:45.000 they're learning. Yeah. I love that. And it gives them some grit to sometimes when we hand things over

00:19:50.900 to them and say, well, figure it out, right. I'll be here to kind of guide. And, you know, and it

00:19:55.140 teaches them some perseverance and the ability to, uh, confidence in themselves that they can resolve or

00:20:01.480 figure out an issue on their own. Yeah. One of the other things, Kip. Oh, sorry.

00:20:05.820 No, I was just going to say this past quarter, one thing that I had on my, on my battle plan was,

00:20:10.440 and it was really because my, one of my older kids doesn't like reading. You just, you say,

00:20:15.380 Hey, let's read. And you'll be like, uh, you know, like it's just all against it. And I thought,

00:20:19.240 man, I don't want to make this a stake on, and we joke Asia and I about, we have batch one and batch

00:20:24.560 two because we have a big gap between our kids. That's funny. Yeah. And so we're, we're really

00:20:29.320 focused on batch two right now as batch one is leaving the house. Right. And, uh, and my thought

00:20:34.560 process this past quarter is like reading. So we've started every night for 10 minutes before we say

00:20:41.080 family prayers and go to bed. We actually all sit down in the living room. They grab a book. I set the

00:20:45.860 timer and we read and I'm trying to do that really young, you know, six and eight years old. So then that

00:20:52.160 way they get in this habit of like, that's where growth comes from is learning and, and, and reading

00:20:58.260 because without the desire to want to read, man, they're going to miss out on all types of

00:21:03.160 opportunities to learn and grow. Right. Well, and even with reading, think about it. It doesn't

00:21:07.280 matter what they're reading. No. So grammar is getting picked up. All kinds of things are getting

00:21:12.420 picked up. Yeah. So if they don't want to read the textbook, like I can actually, I can appreciate

00:21:16.840 that, but maybe they want to read with boys specifically, my boys, they loved hatchet.

00:21:21.700 It's just a great book. Right. And so we read hatchet together. I'd read a little bit,

00:21:26.300 they'd read a little bit, and it was a cool story. And then we would talk about the story and I'd be

00:21:29.960 like, Hey, what would you do in that scenario? Or what should he have done when the moose charged

00:21:33.760 him? You know? So we, like you talk about that and you bring it to life. The other thing I was

00:21:37.480 going to share too, is, um, with my second son, he's all about Legos, all about Legos.

00:21:42.480 It sounds like you're all about Legos. We're both about Legos. Yes. I like my Legos too,

00:21:47.980 but we have, when we're trying to build something, uh, we have names for our pieces. So like,

00:21:54.640 like a, a brick, like a traditional Lego brick would be a two, I need a two by four. Like that's

00:21:59.720 what it would be. Right. Or if it's, or if it's a traditional brick brick, but it's like a thin one,

00:22:05.280 then we call it a two by four flat. If it's a smooth top, we call it a two by four smooth

00:22:09.160 or a two by one. Right. So he's learning math. A two by two is the perfect square.

00:22:14.500 Is that what you call it? Exactly. I get it. So he's learning math and he's learning multiplication.

00:22:18.780 So he'll give me a two by four. And I said, Hey, I need a red two by four. So he'll get it to me.

00:22:24.240 And then, um, and I'm like, how many is that? And he's like, uh, eight, like exactly. And then we

00:22:29.580 build it. Right. So you just build in all these little things with it. Uh, and, and they learn it,

00:22:35.500 they pick it up, but you're having fun in the process. And you're, as Jocko would say,

00:22:39.260 you're flanking learning, right? Like you're, you're it's covert learning. It's fun. And people

00:22:45.400 think, well, learning can't be fun, especially kids. But if you make it fun and you disguise the

00:22:49.700 learning, it's kind of like, if you have to give your dog or a cat a pill, what do you do? You wrap

00:22:54.020 it in a piece of bacon and then the dog has no problem with it. Right. It's the same thing with

00:22:58.800 learning. You know, you wrap it in something that's fun that they're engaged with and they, they think

00:23:03.320 they're just having fun with dad, but they're learning and they're growing and they're expanding.

00:23:07.380 Yeah. And the example used on the book is, I think is spot on, especially when I was reading

00:23:12.020 the warrior kid with, with my daughters, I'd always like pause and what would you do if you

00:23:18.040 were Mark? Right. And you're like, Oh, I think he should do this, this, this. And then they're like,

00:23:22.300 what does he do? At the end of chapter tomorrow, shut the book. And they're like, no. Yeah. And

00:23:27.920 they're like all excited about reading the next day. Right. For sure. Yeah.

00:23:31.140 It's funny. All right. Russ, uh, Thorgerson or Thorgerson, what is, or are the best lessons

00:23:39.040 I can give my six-year-old son to learn and do Legos?

00:23:43.020 Legos. Always do Legos. Um, responsibility, uh, taking care of your stuff, treat, treating

00:23:51.300 it with respect, uh, consequences for actions. We've talked about that at length is, Hey, if

00:23:56.440 there's an action, there's a consequence. If you're talking, if you backtalk your mom, then

00:23:59.500 there's a consequence. The other thing on that, on that vein is when my kids, especially my oldest

00:24:05.480 boy, cause he's getting older and he's some, you know, he gets a little mouthy as he's getting to

00:24:08.600 his teenage years is if he back talks, my, my wife, his mom, I don't say, don't back talk your

00:24:14.700 mother. I say, don't talk to my wife like that. Because I think there's more weight in that.

00:24:21.780 Like, don't, you don't talk to my, that's my wife. You're disrespecting and where he's becoming

00:24:26.880 a young man. It's it, to me, that carries a little bit more weight. So think about the way

00:24:32.920 that you're communicating a message and ask yourself, is this landing the way it needs to

00:24:38.120 be understood? And I'm not saying just in that context, but just think about what you're saying

00:24:42.360 and how he's, how he's, how he's accepting that. Cause now he's, he's transitioning from like

00:24:48.020 my little boy to a man. Right. So that's why we talk about it in that context. Yeah. I mean,

00:24:55.220 six is pretty young, but I would say that, you know, the, the words that we use accountability,

00:25:00.280 responsibility, and then taking care of your things and consequences. I think that's going

00:25:04.340 to be the biggest. And then just fun, like just have fun together. Like you're not, maybe you're

00:25:10.100 not like, like perfectly teaching him something, but you're just being present and fun at six years

00:25:16.600 old, man, that's, that's what really matters. Yeah. I I've come to the realization lately that's,

00:25:23.380 that I appreciate a lot of what my kids do and they do a lot of great things and I don't

00:25:29.340 communicate it, but what I constantly communicate is what they're doing wrong. Yeah. And I, and I

00:25:34.560 really need to take that kind of emotional bank account approach that, that we often talk about

00:25:39.700 with our, about our spouses and carry that over with my kids and realize that if, if I'm going to

00:25:45.860 criticize something or correct them, I need to be having a positive balance to be able to do so.

00:25:52.340 Otherwise I'm just kind of ripping at them and it's going to be more negative than positive. And so

00:25:57.860 that's, what's been on present for me, at least over the last few months is, is I probably over

00:26:02.340 criticized with, with minimal communication about what they are doing good at and those kinds of

00:26:09.740 things. Yeah. And you know, it's interesting about that as a lot of people say, well, you know,

00:26:13.000 I'm doing it from a position of care. Well, I actually agree. You probably are like you personally

00:26:17.740 are probably doing that because you care because I know that's the case. Yeah. But is that the

00:26:22.680 message that's being heard? That's the thing to consider. And there's so much stuff that I'm

00:26:26.740 actually proud of that I never communicate those. Right. Of course. Right. Like, so I'm thinking

00:26:30.620 like, oh, he's doing good. Hey, fix these things. He sees it as all he ever said tells me is what I'm

00:26:35.280 doing wrong. Right. Right. He's under, they're unaware of all the things that we're proud of.

00:26:39.920 Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Billy Huckle, Huckle, Billy Huckle. We're going with that. I have a son

00:26:47.540 who lives with his mother in another state who refuses to talk or have any contact with me. He's

00:26:53.160 12 years old. His 10 year old brother and five year old sister still call and visit, but he isn't

00:26:58.060 allowing me to call or text of any kind. Do you have any suggestions on how to bridge the gap?

00:27:03.460 Oh man, I'm sorry. This is really difficult. I can't imagine being in this situation. So I feel

00:27:10.020 for you, brother. I really do. Um, I would consider the relationship with your ex-wife or, or the mother

00:27:18.320 of, of his mother and ask yourself how that relationship is. Because if that relationship

00:27:26.040 is weak and strained, there's probably some talking and some things going on behind closed doors that

00:27:31.260 you're not aware of that may be perpetuating some of this, she actually, if you do this right,

00:27:36.000 could become your biggest advocate, right? Like if, if, if you make amends for some past

00:27:42.020 indiscretions or some things that maybe went on, I'm making a lot of assumptions here, but I think

00:27:46.060 you'll get the point. But if you work on this relationship with your ex, his mother, and you get her

00:27:53.920 on your team, she is at, I think he said 12 years old. She is that boy's biggest influence right now.

00:28:04.280 And if you can make her an advocate for you, then she's going to not plant seeds of discontent.

00:28:10.780 She's going to plant seeds of optimism and hope and effort and risk, right? He's going to have to

00:28:18.100 take some, be a little bit courageous and take some level of risk to do this because he's not

00:28:22.260 familiar with, with you and going and spending time with you or talking with you. So I think that's the

00:28:27.980 angle I would take. And also I would take the angle of the other children too, right? You have,

00:28:33.400 I think you said two other kids and I'm not saying manipulate them. I'm not saying get them in

00:28:38.740 between or put them in a weird or awkward or uncomfortable situation. I'm just saying be the

00:28:44.520 best possible dad, be engaged, be present when they are with you and, and, and be the type of dad

00:28:51.700 that you want to be, you know, really, really make a conscious effort to identify what that looks like

00:28:56.340 and then act in accordance with that. And, you know, maybe, maybe you suggest to them, Hey, when you

00:29:01.060 go home, you know, let, let Jason know that I've been thinking about him. You know, that's it.

00:29:06.400 It's all, you know, you just say things like that. You make the, your ex or his mother, your,

00:29:11.140 your advocate and a man in a difficult situation. I would say that's, that's your best, that's your

00:29:17.380 best approach. That's, that's what I've got. Yeah. I think that there's influence probably

00:29:24.400 happening and, and because it's not being returned from your son, you assume that it's waste, wasted

00:29:30.500 time or effort. And I see it in the verbiage that you wrote is not allowing me to text.

00:29:37.100 He's allowing you to text. And there's probably a high probability that he's probably even reading

00:29:41.400 the text. He's just not replying. And, and I would suggest that there's still influence

00:29:46.320 and benefit to that. So whether it's you being consistent, and, and, and I think this is the

00:29:51.680 difficult part is you being consistent. Even if it's a voicemail on a cell phone that,

00:29:56.760 I don't know, every other day you text every other, you know, once a week you call or whatever

00:30:01.800 that looks like, if you consistently do it and let go of the idea of like, he didn't reply. It's

00:30:06.640 not working. So I'm going to stop, like stop that thought process immediately. No expectations for it.

00:30:12.040 Yeah. Remove the expectation and just let him know and, and send him a text every other day or whatever

00:30:17.220 that looks like for you and say, thinking about you, son, hope you have a great day at school.

00:30:21.220 Your mom said you had a soccer game this Saturday. Best of luck. Be safe. Have a, remember to have

00:30:28.160 a fun time. Like give him advice, give him direction, send him the text. And, and when he

00:30:33.340 doesn't reply, let go of all the meaning that he's not replying and do it anyway. Right. And what's

00:30:38.520 going to happen is he's going to start realizing like, Hey, dad's not letting up. He's super consistent

00:30:43.960 with his communication. Those things are going to be meaningful. They really will be meaningful. I mean,

00:30:48.580 I don't know about you Ryan, but I'm horrible at replying to texts sometimes. And sometimes I'll

00:30:53.080 get a solid, meaningful text and it's meaningful. I'll be like, yeah, that was really nice. And I

00:30:58.240 forget to reply. Your son might be doing the same thing where he's seen the value of the text and

00:31:03.740 just not replying to you. And so I would really just be, use the technology, voicemails and text

00:31:09.320 messages to let him know that you're thinking and caring about him. You know, the other thing I

00:31:12.900 really like about that is let's just hypothetically assume for the sake of this discussion point that

00:31:18.520 he's not reading the texts. Yeah. I still think there's value in it. Yeah. We still see as a

00:31:24.540 ding. Well, dad, or let's, let's just assume he doesn't see anything. What I'm saying is I think

00:31:29.840 there's value, therapeutic value in you doing that because you can express how you feel and what you're

00:31:36.840 thinking. And also you get to say that you're doing everything that you can to improve this

00:31:45.600 strained relationship. And there's value in that because what happens if in 10 years he's graduated,

00:31:52.820 he's grown up, he's out of the house, he's out on his own, he moves away, whatever. And you have to

00:31:57.900 look back and honestly answer the question of, did I do everything I could with? No, I didn't. That would

00:32:06.480 suck. But if you can ask that question, even if, and I'm just saying, even if this doesn't work out

00:32:12.600 the way that you expect it to, or would like it to at least at a minimum, at the very minimum,

00:32:18.240 you get to say, I really, really tried for, for the last 10 years, I did everything that I knew I

00:32:25.480 could do and knew how to do to make this work. And that's not, that may not be much of a consolation,

00:32:31.920 but it is something. And you can take pride in knowing that you did your part, you know,

00:32:36.680 takes two to tango and you did your part. Yeah. I like that. Doug Lee, how do you deal with it

00:32:43.580 when your 10 year old daughter tells you that she doesn't believe in God? She was filled with

00:32:48.340 anxiety about telling us and it came out in a flood of tears because she was worried we would

00:32:53.400 hate her for saying it. Hmm. Good questions. It is a really good. A lot of them centered around kids

00:32:59.980 at this time. Yeah. And, and being a father, which is good. It's a good theme. How do you tell your,

00:33:05.560 how do you deal with it? Uh, I would say you deal with it. Just, you just love her. That's it. Like

00:33:12.800 you just, you love her. You, you don't beat her over the head with, well, you have to, because this

00:33:17.860 and that, like, why, you know, why help me understand? Like, I want to understand why you don't.

00:33:23.400 Um, and when it's appropriate, talk about your beliefs. Like if you share your, you know,

00:33:27.760 your testimony about God over and over and over and over and over, and you try to bludgeon her

00:33:31.200 with it, like that's going to get annoying. And it's actually probably going to drive a wedge and

00:33:34.140 push her away even further, especially as she gets older, 10 is young, even for a little girl.

00:33:38.620 But as she gets 12, 13, 15, 16, and she gets hormonal and everything's changing around and

00:33:43.780 she wants some independence. Like you're, you're going to drive a wedge by doing it that way.

00:33:48.120 So you just live it. You know, you, you live your belief. You try to understand why you love her in,

00:33:55.540 in, in a, I'm assuming you're Christian. So you love her in a Christian way and you do,

00:34:02.440 you just be a great father. That's it. Like, I don't know that there's any great answer. Like,

00:34:07.620 well, if you say this one magical phrase or you share this one verse, then she'll understand.

00:34:13.080 It's probably not like real rational. Maybe there's some other influence going on here,

00:34:19.380 you know, but just, just strive to understand and continue to impart the values, almost like the,

00:34:25.720 the prodigal son, right? Continue to impart the values. And hopefully she grows up on these

00:34:30.580 principles and she embraces them. And then when, and if she's ready to take another look at

00:34:38.040 spirituality and a higher power, then she'll remember all the lessons that you and your wife

00:34:42.100 taught and how you showed her love, even in that difficult time. Cause it must be difficult. I

00:34:46.900 actually think this about, uh, a child, you know, coming out of the closet and telling their parents

00:34:52.780 that they're gay. It's like, you know, I hope that situation doesn't happen in our case. Like I want

00:34:58.700 my sons and daughter to be, to be straight. Like that's what I want for them. Right. And I've thought

00:35:03.460 about that. What if one of my children comes out and what would I treat them differently? Like,

00:35:07.660 I hope not. I hope I would still treat them with love and, and respect and try to understand

00:35:13.300 their perspective and, you know, not, not embrace necessarily their decision, but strive to understand

00:35:22.040 it and love them all the same. You know, that's the best we can do. Yeah. I would really drive that

00:35:28.060 concept that, that belief is an action. It's a choice. And I think sometimes kids, when we talk

00:35:36.040 about religion, it's like, it's like an on and off thing and it's not a choice that they have to make.

00:35:40.960 And so I would really kind of set this precedence of like, you know, I choose to believe, do I know,

00:35:48.840 do, do I know, do I have a strong understanding of these certain elements? Probably some of them,

00:35:53.680 I don't. And those are things I choose to try to learn more about and, you know, and, and almost

00:35:59.100 remove that weight. Right. Cause she's obviously feels this huge amount of weight that like,

00:36:03.660 oh, I don't believe in God. And so this means all these things is like, oh, if you don't believe in

00:36:08.720 God, like that's okay. Like, but it's still a choice. Like you can choose to like research and

00:36:14.780 figure it out and learn and, you know, and, and we evolve and grow constantly. And so I would almost

00:36:21.480 remove the, I don't know, it's a serious thing, but almost like remove the seriousness of it and

00:36:26.660 realize that this is just part of growth of life. And, and belief is, is an action that we have to

00:36:32.940 take. And sometimes we choose to believe things that we don't on faith and not on knowledge and

00:36:40.000 other things and, and things come and go and we grow as, as we get older. Well, one other thing to

00:36:45.500 consider too, is, I mean, you might look at and ask yourself, is there any positive of this? And I

00:36:51.000 would actually say, yeah, there is. She's thinking critically about life. She's, she's questioning

00:36:58.060 things like she, she believe in what she shouldn't versus just being blown with the wind. Like every

00:37:02.500 other teenager. Yeah. Right. Like she's, she's serious at 10 years old. She's seriously questioning

00:37:08.720 things. That's a good thing. You know, that, that means that she's probably assertive and she's

00:37:14.980 probably an independent thinker. And these are all good things, you know, so take that into

00:37:19.720 consideration as well. You know, of course you would hope that because you're religious and

00:37:24.340 spiritual that you, she would, she would come to another conclusion. And you know what? She might,

00:37:29.120 she might, she might over the next couple of years, like go, go through this thing where she's

00:37:32.920 like, I don't know. And then she might have this, this experience, you know, where she, she no longer

00:37:38.360 denies it or, or sees things differently. And she thinks, you know what, man, I've been wrong for the

00:37:44.140 last couple of years. She already made one decision, one conscious thought and conclusion. It's,

00:37:49.200 she's completely capable of coming to another one. So don't blow it by shoving it down her throat or,

00:37:55.900 you know, being, you know, being, being crazy or being upset. And then she surely won't share

00:37:59.980 anything with you and she'll have a negative taste in her mouth for this stuff. Yeah. It's interesting,

00:38:04.480 Ryan, because, you know, Asia's had some family members that like religiously have, have struggled

00:38:10.760 with, with what we believe. And it's funny where people in our lives that we care about, whether it's

00:38:15.940 our kids or family members, when they, when they make certain decisions, we assume that it's final

00:38:21.060 and we constantly go like, Oh, she doesn't believe it. Got period. It's like, no, no, no. That's like

00:38:26.980 right now. Right. Who knows what tomorrow brings or next month or the next year or whatever. And so

00:38:32.340 we have a tendency to kind of really pigeonhole people and then like put them in their box when

00:38:37.100 we're out. It's like, that's what, that's the flavor right now. Right. People grow and change. And so

00:38:43.300 we need to not try to label and box people up so quickly and just realize that's, that's where they

00:38:48.820 are on the path today. Right. And, and that the story's not over yet. Right. This is a long

00:38:55.200 question. Um, and that's loaded. You're, you'll enjoy half of these, uh, statements leading up to

00:39:01.600 the actual question. So I'm going to read it all because I, cause you might want to address some of

00:39:05.420 these loaded. Okay. Sounds good. That Leonard has here. So Leonard, uh, Galgay, a large majority of

00:39:11.980 boys have no male mentor in their lives because of the mother has prevented a male from stepping up.

00:39:17.500 This has resulted in a couple of generations of male youth today who have no understanding of

00:39:22.500 masculinity or, uh, how to harness their own individual masculinity. This is evident in the

00:39:29.300 fluid sex sexuality men experience today and the lack of discipline in their sexual relationships.

00:39:34.620 We have a large population of male youth and men who need mentoring and direction on how to be the

00:39:40.440 best men they can be regardless of sexuality. So my question is, how do we bring the message of

00:39:46.700 masculinity integrity to a group of men who have been raised to believe masculinity is toxic

00:39:51.740 and sexuality is fluid? How do we reach a generation who has been abandoned by males who neglect,

00:39:59.100 who negated their responsibility to them? I should add that these two questions are paraphrased from a

00:40:05.220 discussion I had in a men's group who had a large number of struggling gay and bisexual men looking for

00:40:10.420 direction in their lives. So it is a little bit loaded, but even though that it is loaded that

00:40:16.440 way, I actually agree with, with a lot of that. I don't, I don't think generally that's the case

00:40:20.540 regarding women, for example, I think, right. I think in certain circumstances, yes, absolutely.

00:40:25.980 And the way to combat that is don't get involved with women who don't appreciate men.

00:40:29.940 Yeah. Or it's a result of men not doing their job and then men, women stepping in and you know what I

00:40:34.760 mean, make it based upon their experience with men, right? Like how do you make masculinity toxic,

00:40:39.980 be a toxic guy that women hate? That's, that's how you perpetuate.

00:40:44.640 Well, that's, that's how you, I wouldn't say make masculinity toxic, but that's how you make

00:40:49.200 people believe negatively about men. Yeah. Right. Because that's their experience. Like I know,

00:40:54.500 I know women personally, women who have a very negative perception of men because they have been

00:41:00.200 damaged by men and they haven't dealt with it in a healthy manner. They've dealt with it unhealthy.

00:41:06.780 And so now all men are all men fall into that camp. Right. So that's not a healthy way to look at it.

00:41:11.340 So, so don't get involved with women like this, be the, be the type of husband and father that,

00:41:16.380 that you want to be. So you're less likely to get into this situation. I realize there's some things

00:41:20.660 that are outside of your control. Like the family court system, for example, I believe generally is

00:41:25.240 stacked against men and that can be a real challenge. It'd be a very difficult thing. We,

00:41:29.620 we heard about it earlier, you know, and I don't know the entire context, but we've got a gentleman

00:41:33.640 who asked a question earlier, who can't see his son, either a son won't let him or whatever. Like

00:41:38.940 he can't, he's not seeing his son right now. So his son is probably less likely to be exposed to

00:41:44.180 masculine male influences. Now I feel like I'm going to give you a little bit of a cop-out answer when I,

00:41:49.780 when I share what I'm going to share, but this is the answer. Order of man is the answer.

00:41:55.620 Yeah. That's why we started this organization. That's why we continue to share on a daily basis,

00:42:00.600 uh, what it means to be a man and how men step up and how we can make ourselves more capable and

00:42:05.520 strong and relevant and important in the lives of the people that we care about. This is, this is the

00:42:10.460 solution. So yeah, share this podcast, come to the events, support us. And this is why I feel like

00:42:16.400 it's cop-out. It's very easy for me. I have a bias of course, for me to say these things, but I'll tell

00:42:21.720 you what I get messages every single day from men who were raised without fathers from homosexual men,

00:42:28.640 from men who, uh, have had questions about even their gender, who have expressed to me gratitude

00:42:35.540 for being strong and convicted in my views about masculinity, because potentially for the first time

00:42:41.680 in their life, they've experienced what a strong, capable man looks like, how he behaves,

00:42:48.060 the virtues that he espouses, how he tries to behave with other people. And so I have men like

00:42:52.980 you're talking about men that are confused about their sexuality, men who are homosexual,

00:42:57.780 who appreciate what it is that we're doing here. Uh, and, and this is what we do. We continue to spread

00:43:04.420 this message, uh, coach sports teams, be involved in your community. If you have a nephew or a young

00:43:11.400 man, a neighbor, uh, who doesn't have a dad around, I mean, what's keeping you from, you know,

00:43:16.620 knocking on the door next door and saying, Hey, you know, like I know Billy may not, you know,

00:43:22.560 like baseball or whatever, but me and my son are going to go play some catch. He, he, do you think

00:43:26.620 he'd want to come to the park with us? And we've done that, you know, there's, there's little boys

00:43:31.780 who come hang out with us that are my kids' friends, uh, who, you know, I'm probably the closest

00:43:36.400 thing that they have to a father and we have an opportunity and a responsibility to step up in

00:43:42.340 these ways. So yeah, like I said, it feels a little bit like a cop-out, but you're part of the

00:43:47.160 solution. This is, this is why we started order of man to give men direction and guidance and

00:43:51.960 counsel so that they can become the type of men they want to be. And I'd say the best conduit of

00:43:56.460 that is men, the best conduit to prepare boys is men. So our primary focus is men, but then we also

00:44:04.240 have other focuses on young men through the legacy event where it's a father and son event,

00:44:10.060 where we create this environment where these men have the opportunity to bond with their sons in

00:44:15.580 a different way. We present content to those young men so they can be level up, right. And see the

00:44:22.460 benefits of, of being young men. And, and it's just, I don't think it's a cop-out. I don't think

00:44:28.020 there's any, I don't think there's a more effective way. I don't think it is either. I just think

00:44:32.500 men to become better men. I mean, that's just the reality of it.

00:44:34.940 I just, I just, I shouldn't have used that term. I just think that maybe it's a perceived conflict

00:44:39.320 of interest, right? So it is.

00:44:42.020 Listen to me, listen to me and don't listen to Ryan.

00:44:44.020 That's right.

00:44:44.300 And now we don't have a conflict.

00:44:45.060 Which is what most people do anyways. You know, there's other things too, you know,

00:44:50.640 read good books. Like there's of course the book that I wrote sovereignty, but there's

00:44:54.320 wild at heart and hatchet is one I talked about earlier. And so there's like plenty of good books

00:44:58.960 and resources. There's trail life USA. I would say boy scouts, but I think boy scouts is perpetuating

00:45:05.140 much of the problem you're talking about. So trail life USA, there's other organizations,

00:45:09.380 YMCA, big brothers, big sisters, these types of organizations that you can get involved with

00:45:13.880 and step up.

00:45:15.400 Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things that we focus on in the iron council is one of the aspects or

00:45:21.740 quadrants is contribution. And we've talked about this contribution just isn't providing

00:45:26.760 financially for your family, but contribution is your contribution to your community. And we

00:45:32.100 encourage the guys in the IC, what are you doing to contribute? What are you doing to make a

00:45:37.640 difference? And sometimes in your case, it is inviting the boy next door to go to the park and

00:45:42.960 play catch. Sometimes it is coaching a basketball team or a football team. There's lots of different

00:45:48.400 avenues where we can step up and contribute and be that, I don't know, that lighthouse for young men

00:45:54.600 in regards to what masculinity should look like.

00:45:57.940 Mm-hmm. Yep. Definitely.

00:46:00.280 Good question.

00:46:00.940 Thoughtful question.

00:46:02.060 Yeah. Rob Christensen, how to motivate an unmotivated spouse without coming across judgmental.

00:46:08.040 Let me read that again. How do I motivate my unmotivated spouse so she doesn't judge me?

00:46:13.940 I do tons around the house. I'm busting my ass. I do everything and work out and feel alone

00:46:20.760 in it the most of the time. I reread all that for him. All right, go ahead.

00:46:27.380 It's hard not to think about it in that context though, which you read it now, but that's kind of

00:46:31.420 how it sounded. I mean, that's... Sorry, Rob.

00:46:37.100 Yeah. I mean, we made some assumptions there, but man, it does sound like that. So how do you motivate

00:46:41.920 a spouse who's unmotivated?

00:46:43.760 Yeah. Like maybe they're just not on the path and you see this opportunity for them to be happier

00:46:48.640 maybe, and they're just not after it.

00:46:50.880 You know, I think everybody's motivated by the things they're motivated by.

00:46:56.040 Like I know that's circular reasoning, right? But that's true. Like I'm not motivated to take out

00:47:01.960 the trash. I'm not motivated to mow the lawn, but I'm motivated to do the podcast. I'm motivated to

00:47:09.340 have sex with my wife. I'm motivated to play Legos with my kids. Like, cause those are all

00:47:14.660 things I enjoy. I like doing. So the answer is what does she like doing? What is she motivated by?

00:47:21.120 Maybe what you presented or what she thinks is available is not inspiring or motivating to her.

00:47:26.480 Yeah.

00:47:27.220 So why would she be motivated by that?

00:47:28.700 And to Rob's point, he says, you know, he does a ton around the house and he works out and he feels

00:47:32.840 like he's doing those things alone.

00:47:34.200 Yeah. You might be, maybe she doesn't care about that stuff. Like, like let's say you do

00:47:39.100 strength training. Hypothetically, maybe she's not interested in strength training,

00:47:42.800 but she loves to run hiker or a hiker or a biker or, or a swimmer or whatever, you know? So it's

00:47:47.980 like, maybe you're projecting a little bit of your own stuff onto her and thinking, why the hell what's

00:47:52.720 wrong with her? Why don't you like this stuff? Maybe she's not motivated by that. Like my wife

00:47:58.440 tonight, in fact, uh, as of the recording, this podcast is going to, I think it's her fifth or sixth

00:48:03.300 beekeeping class every Tuesday night. She goes to a beekeeping class for two to three hours in a

00:48:08.880 neighboring town. And I don't like that stuff. And I don't care. Like this, I care that she likes

00:48:14.400 it, but it's not something that's like relevant to me, but she's motivated by it. You know, she

00:48:18.440 likes it. She finds it interesting and fascinating. She comes home and she tells me all about her

00:48:22.000 dorky friends at beekeeping class and what they're talking about and how bees colonize, which actually

00:48:27.720 bees are pretty fascinating animals. And it is amazing. It's like, I had no idea. And so she's got all

00:48:33.760 these things. And she asked me to like build this thing for her bees. And I'm like, yeah,

00:48:36.900 I like, again, I'm not motivated by that, but if you are, then I got to foster that. Like

00:48:40.680 I want to foster that in you. So we've talked about this. It seems like every week we talk

00:48:45.760 about this and you use this example a lot about things that motivate your wife, that you

00:48:50.920 have no, like it had no interest whatsoever. Right. But it's her thing. Right. And, and,

00:48:56.020 and the same thing, but probably with you where she's probably like another book that Ryan's

00:49:00.420 reading about self-help. Right. It's like, or if I come home and I want to practice like

00:49:05.280 jujitsu moods on her, she's like, leave me alone. But you know, they, they put up with it because

00:49:14.420 they know it satisfies us, right? Like it, it, it brings an element. It gives us some edges,

00:49:20.300 I guess you'd say, like it gives us some depth and edges and, you know, just makes us interesting,

00:49:25.740 right? Like what makes her interesting? What would she really cling onto? What, what would she really

00:49:30.760 enjoy? And maybe it's just having questions and thoughts and ideas. I also mentioned this in a

00:49:34.920 previous podcast that if she expresses even the slightest bit interest in something, whatever it

00:49:40.580 is, then you as her husband need to foster it. Right. So like if my wife and we'll go on the

00:49:46.820 beekeeping riff here for a minute, and this didn't happen, but just as a hypothetical, let's say one

00:49:51.060 day she came to me and she's like, Hey, did you know that bees, I don't know, whatever. She had

00:49:56.200 some weird statistic on bees, right? Like bees have sex a hundred times a day or whatever. I don't

00:50:01.360 know. I'm just making stuff. Well, like, obviously she's, she's telling me that because there's some

00:50:06.500 level of interest there. Right. So my reaction should be, that's interesting. I didn't know that.

00:50:10.820 That's cool. And then tomorrow, maybe go to the community center, like a website or get the brochure

00:50:16.700 and you can see, Oh, Hey, there's this beekeeping class. And she was talking to me about bees and sex the

00:50:22.740 other day. Like I'm going to go give this to her. And so you go to her and you say, Hey,

00:50:28.220 honey, you were talking about bees the other night. And I was on this website and I saw that

00:50:32.120 there's a beekeeping class 30 minutes from here. Like you should go do this. So you foster it,

00:50:37.200 right? You encourage it. So you look for little cues and hints that she's giving you to things that

00:50:42.180 she might be interested in. And then you, you, you encourage her, you, you help her engage in that

00:50:49.140 thing. And that's always been pretty successful for, for me. Justin Finney, how does beekeepers

00:50:56.560 are going to be pissed at me over that conversation? They don't have sex in multiple

00:50:59.880 days. I'm like, I don't know. Okay. I don't know about bees. So if you need to correct me,

00:51:05.200 feel free. Like I know I'm wrong. So I know we need more bees. I know that much. So your,

00:51:10.040 your wife is not only just, it's not about bees. She's saving the world. She is. She's saving the

00:51:14.520 planet. Absolutely. Justin Finney, how does one change his trajectory? I feel I've been stuck in

00:51:21.940 the same mentality and doing the same things and making the same mistakes I've been since my early

00:51:27.460 twenties. I'm craving more substantial gains and meaning in my life. Yeah. Stop doing the same

00:51:33.300 stuff you're doing. Like, just stop it. Like change it up. Do something different. Move, find new

00:51:39.260 friends, pick up a new hobby, get a new job, do a new workout, read a new book. Like everything that

00:51:47.080 you would normally, like if it's comfortable, don't do that. Don't do that. Cause you're comfortable

00:51:52.860 with the things that you're familiar with and the things that you're familiar with are not working for

00:51:57.720 you. Yeah. So stop doing the things that you're familiar with. If you wake up in the morning and

00:52:02.740 you're, and you're used to waking up at eight o'clock, don't wake up at eight o'clock, wake up at seven

00:52:07.860 and 30. If the first thing that you do when you get out of bed is, is, I don't know, go to the

00:52:12.880 convenience store and get a big, you know, 30 ounce Coke and a burrito. Don't do that. Do something

00:52:19.340 else. Have a banana at home. And you're going to be like, this sucks. This is uncomfortable. Exactly.

00:52:23.480 That's the point. Like just start making different decisions. If you're used to hanging out with the

00:52:27.760 same bros that you always been hanging out with, don't hang out with those guys. Like go somewhere

00:52:32.240 else where different people are. So you can put yourself in new environments and meet different people who

00:52:36.960 might serve you better and who you might be able to serve. Everything about your life needs to change,

00:52:42.060 right? You're, you're in a rut right now because you're comfortable doing the things that you're

00:52:47.640 familiar with. So get yourself in unfamiliar spaces and unfamiliar environments and let that,

00:52:55.320 let that play out. Let that see where that leads you. And you'll find that it'll lead you to a different

00:53:01.000 place, which by the way, might not be the right place. You might, you might start doing some

00:53:06.660 different things and realize, Oh no, this isn't where I wanted to go. Well, at least you found out

00:53:10.120 now try something different, right? So life is really just a process of experimentation.

00:53:16.200 I mean, I do the same thing in business. It's like we try something and it works. Cool. We're

00:53:20.840 going to do that again on a greater level, or we try something and it doesn't work. I'm like, Ooh,

00:53:25.000 that failed miserably. Like, what do we need to change about this? Life is a process of experimentation.

00:53:30.540 I think about that when I have conversations with people, I said something to my wife the other day.

00:53:34.660 And as soon as the, the words passed my lips, I'm like, Ooh, that was not the right thing to say.

00:53:41.700 And so mental note, file it away. Don't ever say that again. That doesn't work, you know? So like

00:53:50.620 evaluate everything you're doing. Oh, these friends, when I'm with these friends, this is what happens.

00:53:55.660 I get drunk. I get shit faced. I do stupid things. I hook up with slutty women and I don't want that to

00:54:01.720 happen. So what is the common denominator? Oh, those friends got to find new friends check or

00:54:08.480 alcohol. Shouldn't drink alcohol check. Shouldn't go to the bar. Got it. Process of experimentation,

00:54:14.660 just like a scientist would do, right? A scientist has a hypothesis, right? So he thinks, okay, this is

00:54:20.960 what's going to happen. He has a standard, a control group and a variable group. Now you're in the

00:54:25.680 variable group. You're trying new things. And then you evaluate, did that work? Did it not?

00:54:28.740 Yes. It worked. Cool. We're going to do that. No, it didn't. Okay. I got to switch out one of the

00:54:32.760 variables to test this, this theory, this idea. And that's all you're doing on a daily basis.

00:54:37.940 You're just testing. Yeah. I like it. I think one way to really shake the boat up too is, is if

00:54:44.760 there's something that you've always wanted to do, be unreasonable and commit to doing it. So for

00:54:50.420 whatever in the back of your mind, you thought, Oh, I wanted to run a marathon or I want to do this,

00:54:56.140 then do it. Go do it. Yeah. Just go do it. Like literally sign up, not even be prepared.

00:55:01.640 Sign up for a tough mutter or sign up for whatever, whatever it is that you have been telling your

00:55:07.160 story and excuses of why you shouldn't do it. Sign up for it. Right. And then fall flat on your face

00:55:12.700 if you need to, but just do it, do it anyway. And prepare for it and do your best. Yeah.

00:55:19.720 And nothing is going to happen. Exactly. But it will get you out of that rut and you'll,

00:55:23.500 you'll feel a little crazy about it too. You'd be like, I can't even believe I'm doing this.

00:55:26.860 I'm being completely unreasonable. I bought airline tickets to someplace I've never been before. And

00:55:32.440 I'm going to do a 14 mile hike in Peru. Right. I have no idea what I'm doing. This is awesome.

00:55:37.900 Like find out what that is. Yep. Yeah. Exactly. All right. David Rivas, how to accept the truth

00:55:46.380 of our insecurities of being contested, how we hate being wrong. I know I do. Thank you,

00:55:52.860 Ryan Mickler. Becoming more capable man is a non-negotiable.

00:55:58.640 Well, you got to ask yourself, what, what do I want?

00:56:03.680 Do I want to be successful or do I want to be right? A hundred percent of the time?

00:56:12.120 And I think about that in any content, you know, think about it on my jujitsu path. Like when people

00:56:16.800 tell me things, upper belts, tell me things like why in the world would I say, no, that's stupid.

00:56:25.220 I may have had a different thought and they're like, no, you should do this instead. Like,

00:56:28.520 who am I to say, no, no, I'm going to do it this way. That, that guy knows, like, why wouldn't I

00:56:35.320 take that into consideration? It's just amazing how often we let our ego get in the way. So ask

00:56:40.460 yourself, like, what is it that you want specifically? Not, I want more money. Everybody

00:56:44.960 wants more money. Not, I want a great relationship. Everybody wants a great relationship. Like

00:56:49.380 specifically how much money, what does the relationship look like? What are you going to be

00:56:54.660 doing for a career? What do you want your body fat percentage to be? What type of lifts do you

00:56:58.360 want to do? How much do you want to be able to lift or how fast you want to be able to run

00:57:01.860 and then eliminate anything, including yourself. That's getting in the way of keeping you from

00:57:08.060 having the thing that you're after the thing that you want. And many times that's all it is. It's just

00:57:12.040 you telling yourself you're not worth it, or you can't do it, or you weren't born to do this,

00:57:19.020 or you weren't gifted or lucky enough like anybody else. Those are all, those are all things designed

00:57:24.060 to keep you safe and secure and comfortable and out of harm's way, which serve us in some capacity,

00:57:29.300 but ultimately they don't allow us to progress and grow. So be very real with yourself. This is

00:57:35.420 where that's after action review comes in and why it's so important and why you look at yourself and

00:57:39.300 your performance objectively so that you can begin to make improvements, be coachable. In fact,

00:57:45.760 a lot of times people say, Oh, you know, what are the most important virtues that you should have?

00:57:49.700 And one of them is coachability for me anyways. Yeah. I think coachability is one of the most

00:57:55.780 important virtues for success. And it's something that I strive to do to be coachable. So when somebody

00:58:02.640 who has more information about a subject, share something with me, I try to take that to heart

00:58:07.260 and apply it. And you know what, when I do, it works out. Surprise, surprise. Like it works. Then I'm

00:58:13.120 like, Oh, I just proved that that works. And then it solidifies that pathway, right? This action

00:58:18.760 produces this result. And I start to see it in action. Then you just keep implementing it. So

00:58:23.360 yeah, find mentors and be coachable. That's it. Yeah. What's interesting too. I wonder your thoughts

00:58:30.780 on this, Ryan, but it's funny how sometimes when we're not coachable and that ego gets in the way,

00:58:36.520 we don't want to take advice. We actually think that if we took advice and we are humble in that moment,

00:58:42.480 that those people would perceive us as less valuable. When, when reality, it's the complete

00:58:48.340 opposite. Do you really think people think that? I think they do. I think that's why I think that's

00:58:54.080 don't you, I, I think that's behind the ego. It's about, I don't think that is about that. It's

00:58:59.660 like I, I have it all figured out. And so they don't want to take input from someone because they want

00:59:05.440 to come across as though they have it all figured out. In reality, it's if I'm going to coach someone

00:59:10.120 and they like act like they have it all figured out. I don't, or let's say, let's say assume the

00:59:15.200 approach it correctly. Like, Oh, thanks Kip. That was really beneficial. Whatever. I don't think

00:59:19.680 less of them. I don't go, Oh man, my coaching was, was valuable. And he took my coaching really

00:59:24.680 serious. So yeah, he's less of a man than I thought he was. Like, I don't think, I don't think

00:59:30.100 no one ever thinks that, but I think we think it, it takes away from our value a little bit when we

00:59:35.740 are, I don't know when we're more coachable sometimes, like we don't have our, our crap

00:59:40.600 together. I'll give you, I'll give you an, I think that's true. Let me give you an example of that.

00:59:44.800 So a couple of weeks ago at jujitsu, I had an upper belt. Um, I was trying a, um, uh, like a

00:59:50.680 baseball bat choke and, uh, I wasn't able to get it on him. I'm like, well, this is not working,

00:59:55.200 you know? And he stopped me. He's like, Hey, you need to do this. Like you need to change your grip

00:59:58.960 and adjust here. And so I adjusted it. And last night I tried it and it worked, you know,

01:00:03.980 and I submitted him and he's like, Oh man, I shouldn't have taught you that. Just joking

01:00:08.580 around, you know, he's like, I shouldn't have taught you that. And we kind of laughed about it.

01:00:12.520 He's like, no, I just, I mean, he's like, I want you to know that was really good. Like

01:00:15.520 that was awesome that you took that suggestion and you applied it and it worked like way to go.

01:00:19.480 Now I got to get better is essentially what he said. Yeah. Like he didn't, he thought better of me

01:00:24.520 because I took it to heart. I was like, Oh, okay. So change this grip. And it worked.

01:00:28.440 Not only did it make me a better tacticianer, he thought he respected me more because I was

01:00:34.760 coachable and I took that to heart and I applied it and it worked the way it was supposed to work.

01:00:39.860 And also it served him because a, he was able to teach there's value in somebody teaching because

01:00:44.740 he feels pride in being able to teach. So let him teach and B, he has to improve his game now

01:00:50.120 because otherwise I'll continue to catch him in that. So he served in many different ways.

01:00:54.840 Yeah. And it helps him get better at what he does when he teaches. Right. Whenever you have to

01:00:59.860 explain something to someone, it almost solidifies it better in your own mind as well. So it's,

01:01:04.180 it's really to their benefit. Yes. Yeah. Let's take a couple more. Cause I think we're

01:01:08.780 getting close on time. We might be slightly over, I don't know, somewhere right in there.

01:01:12.140 Kobe King, what are some tips you would give a person who would rather listen than speak to improve

01:01:17.900 their communication in all aspects, AKA relationships and business?

01:01:22.160 Well, okay. So let me, let me, I know. So what are some tips for somebody who would rather listen

01:01:28.820 than speak to improve their communication? Um, so I hate the term safe space. It's a stupid term,

01:01:37.980 but I'm actually kind of got to use it here a little bit. You need to foster an environment

01:01:44.320 where it's comfortable for them to start speaking up.

01:01:47.600 Hmm. Because if you don't, then they'll think they'll always look at speaking up as a threat.

01:01:54.120 And it is a threat by definition. It's a threat. Anytime you speak up, you are making yourself

01:01:59.660 vulnerable, which is another word I don't completely like because of how it's been skewed. Okay. But,

01:02:04.420 but that's what you're doing. You're saying, you're basically saying anytime you speak up,

01:02:07.900 what you're actually saying is judge, judge my thoughts. Yeah. Like judge me as a human being,

01:02:14.580 because we are a collection of our thoughts and actions. So I'm going to stand up here and I'm

01:02:18.300 going to tell you some things and I want you to judge everything about me. Like who wants to do

01:02:23.800 that? You apparently I'm like a, I'm like a glutton for punishment, right? Like it's, you know what?

01:02:33.020 I still get nervous sometimes when I'm going to do a podcast or speak in public because of that.

01:02:37.580 Yeah. So if you're trying to foster this and somebody else to being able to express their

01:02:44.340 thoughts and ideas, then at least initially you need to create an environment where they feel

01:02:51.060 comfortable and secure enough with you and the relationship and how you'll respond to be able

01:02:56.860 to do that. And so you, you build upon it in a non-threatening way, maybe one day. And I don't

01:03:02.200 know the context of this, but let's say you're talking with your, I don't know, your wife,

01:03:05.320 like, is there some context to this or no? No. Okay. So let's say you're talking, even

01:03:08.740 at your wife or your kid, just ask them about their day and shut up. They just shut up.

01:03:17.160 Don't ask any other questions. Don't interject about your day. Don't teach any lessons. Like

01:03:22.180 when they're like, Oh yeah, my day was fill in the blank. Say, Oh, that's interesting.

01:03:26.220 It sounds like fun. Well, you should have done. Yes, exactly. Right. So now you're taking away

01:03:31.320 from the space that you're trying to create for them. Yeah. And, and if they don't, don't fully

01:03:38.600 engage, then ask a probing question. Like if, uh, at the dinner table, one of the things that we ask

01:03:43.220 all of our kids individually at the dinner table is what was your favorite part about the day?

01:03:47.880 And sometimes some of them will say, I don't know. Well, no, like what did you enjoy this?

01:03:54.780 So we start probing a little bit, right? Did you enjoy this? What did you think about this part of the

01:03:58.740 day? And we try to get them to go a little bit further, a little bit further, a little bit

01:04:02.520 further. And so this is what you do. You ask these open-ended questions and you get them to

01:04:06.600 respond more and open up and you don't react inappropriately. So they shut down and then

01:04:11.920 you just continue to foster this until they feel comfortable enough, like sharing, even in

01:04:17.820 intimidating environments. Yeah. Without context, I think that's the, that's the, that's the advice

01:04:26.020 I'd give. I like it. Sean Marskel. What are some ways to discipline children without physically

01:04:33.080 punishment, without physical punishment? For example, a punishment that you guys may have

01:04:38.740 found to work with a toddler who bites or hits when he's angry. Thanks in advance guys.

01:04:44.460 If my kids bite or kick when they're angry, my, my youngest two, it's there, they're like really

01:04:50.540 frustrated and they're emotional. Typically, you know, they're like heated up. Like they're,

01:04:55.560 they're emotional. They're charged about something. Right. Which actually might be warranted. Like if

01:04:59.960 their brother hit him and they bite him back, like I'm like, well, good, good call. I think that's

01:05:05.160 probably the right approach. Exactly. You know, so you got to figure out what they're, what they're

01:05:09.360 triggered by, you know, what they're emotional about. But usually it's just some space, right? Like I'm

01:05:14.980 not going to discipline my three-year-old necessarily, but I might say, Hey, you know

01:05:19.120 what? At dinner, this happens all the time. My three-year-old bouncing off all the walls,

01:05:22.840 like jumping up and down and then he'll backtalk. And I'm like, you know what? Go sit on the stairs

01:05:27.760 and then come back in when you're ready. And so he gets down and he has this like teary-eyed little

01:05:34.560 pouty face and he goes, yeah, Matt, just like that. He sits on the stairs and then he'll usually yell,

01:05:40.340 dad, I'm ready. Come on back. And then we don't say anything else about it. It's like kind of like

01:05:46.660 self-punishment. Like I'm not going to sit there for 15 minutes and then, no, just sit there until

01:05:50.820 you're ready to behave like a normal, rational human being. And you can have dinner respectfully

01:05:56.560 with us. Other things are restrictions or taking away items. You know, like if Legos,

01:06:04.500 go to Legos, like we talked about earlier, Legos were everywhere, but you know what?

01:06:08.780 This podcast is now sponsored by Legos.

01:06:11.420 That would be awesome. If you guys have a connection, let us know, please.

01:06:15.580 Ryan's like, man, we're going poor. I'm buying all these expensive Legos. I need a discount or

01:06:20.820 something.

01:06:21.340 I just want more Legos. I'll buy them or get them for free or whatever, whatever I can do to have

01:06:26.220 more Legos. Anyways, you know, but if I find them all over the place and I've told them to clean

01:06:31.020 them up, like, I'm like, sorry, these ones are mine now. You lost them, right? Like if you're not

01:06:37.300 going to treat your things with respect and treat my house with respect, then you don't get to

01:06:41.040 participate the way that you want to. So you lose them. So restrictions, taking away items that always

01:06:47.740 seems to work pretty, giving them some space just to like cool off for a minute. Like just go cool

01:06:52.680 off. When you're ready to come back, you can. My oldest, he gets fired up sometimes and him,

01:06:57.500 like I can just tell him, just breathe. Just breathe. He knows the box breathing method. So I

01:07:02.940 say, you know what? Just go in your other room and do some box breathing, like cool off. And then

01:07:07.900 you can come back in here and we'll engage and we'll talk, but we're not doing this now. And he

01:07:11.920 knows exactly what that means. It's different for everybody, but yeah, I hope that helps.

01:07:16.700 Yeah. All right. Sounds good. Should we wrap up, sir? Let's wrap up. Yep. All right. So guys,

01:07:22.960 we filled these questions from Facebook and we had kind of a lot of conversations around kids

01:07:28.500 today around, you know, how do we make a difference? And in Ryan alluded to this earlier,

01:07:34.500 we make a difference by, by pushing out this message, right? By sharing this podcast, by sharing

01:07:41.720 the YouTube channels, that's part of the YouTube, the Order of Man YouTube channel, you know, grab

01:07:48.520 some of those videos, email them to a friend, you know, if they strike a chord with you, or you think

01:07:52.620 that there's beneficial content, share that with other individuals, share the message. Ultimately,

01:07:57.180 you guys can join us at facebook.com slash group slash Order of Man. And then for you guys willing to

01:08:02.220 kind of step on the court in life, not be so much as a spectator, but actually rub shoulders with

01:08:08.740 more like, like-minded men. You can join us in the iron council to learn more about that. Go to

01:08:13.440 order of man.com slash iron council. We have our legacy event that is probably full at this point.

01:08:19.660 Do you want to kind of give us an update on? Yeah. I think there might be one or two spots left.

01:08:23.300 There's, if there is any spots, it's like one or maybe two. So if you're interested, jump on that quick.

01:08:29.540 Yeah. That's June 11th through the 14th to learn more order of man.com slash legacy. And that's for

01:08:36.120 men, uh, and their boys between the ages of eight and 15 years old. And of course we have our main

01:08:42.520 event, May 29th through the 30th of this year. Um, it's going to be an awesome event. It's in Maine

01:08:48.500 as well. That's order of man.com slash main event. And that's Maine as in the state Maine. Yes.

01:08:55.340 And then of course, follow Mr. Mickler on Twitter and Instagram at Ryan Mitchler, Mickler.

01:09:03.240 I've got some good ideas there that I'm going to make available here soon. Should be interesting.

01:09:08.500 Well, cool. Well, thanks Kip. Appreciate it guys. I appreciate you. Great questions again,

01:09:12.540 all along the lines of, uh, mostly children and fatherhood and husband, uh, really family oriented,

01:09:18.360 I guess this, uh, this week. So that's good. I like those questions. Uh, yeah, that's all I've got.

01:09:23.480 Appreciate you guys. Glad you're on the path with us. Continue to share. We do appreciate the shares

01:09:27.100 and the visibility that we gain when you put this out into the world. Cause, uh, you know,

01:09:30.840 as well as we do that, man, the world needs it, that we really need masculinity. And this is a call

01:09:35.520 to step up more fully into being a man. So we'll let you get going way back next week, but until then,

01:09:41.340 go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the

01:09:45.300 order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:09:50.720 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - March 11, 2020

Correcting the Feminization of Society, the Value of Coachability, and Handling Disagreements with Your Wife ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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