On this episode of Ask Me Anythings, Kip and I answer a few of your questions and talk about a recent car accident that happened to Kip's 15-year-old son. We also talk about what it's like to be a dad to a teenager.
00:00:59.260Guys, if you're just tuning in, you don't know what it is we're talking about.
00:01:02.840Each and every week, Kip Sorensen and myself, we do Ask Me Anythings.
00:01:07.100So these questions come in from our Facebook group, come in from Patreon account, come in from Instagram, Twitter, wherever you are on social media.
00:01:16.280That's where these questions are coming in from.
00:01:17.940We go through as many as we can and you get some insight into the inner workings of Kip and my brain.
00:01:23.480And I don't know if that's a good thing or not, but that's what it is.
00:02:10.580It sounds like you've had an interesting past 24 hours though.
00:02:13.920I'm trying to deflect and talk about you singing instead.
00:02:16.440No, because this was an interesting story and I think a lot of guys would relate with this, especially if they have young teenagers and how difficult and challenging that can be at times.
00:03:34.420So, all that I did is go into the house and say, honey, you better talk to our son about driving my car last night or I'm going to beat him.
00:03:46.600And then I decided to go to the gym and do legs instead.
00:04:11.480Instead, while he was babysitting, he hopped in the car, drove down like busy streets, picked up his buddy, brought him back to the house so they could hang out.
00:04:45.540It's interesting how – that's one thing that we figured out how to do as a couple is to know when the other one is not in the right state of mind and to be able to step in and go, okay, I'm calm right now.
00:05:09.340I think it makes you look good because you can't entirely keep that kind of garbage from happening.
00:05:14.900I mean, kids have minds of their own and they're going to do their thing and they're going to test the bounds and do everything they can to assert themselves as leaders and independent, right?
00:05:35.400I mentioned this earlier before we started is it's funny how often we place judgment on other parents, right?
00:05:43.380And go, oh man, well, my kids would have never done that.
00:05:46.200I had a friend that she posted something on Facebook and a parent had apparently told her she was a horrible parent because her little boy – and I'm talking little, like six or seven years old.
00:06:00.440They were at the park and she was changing her other kids or doing something and the little boy ran over to the tree or the bush and peed in the bush like little boys do.
00:06:32.980So, another parent had confronted her and told her how bad of a parent she was because her little boy ran over to the bushes and peed in the bushes.
00:06:54.740Kids are – they're kind of isolated in areas on Manhattan and all the time we'd have New Yorkers some – because everyone's subpoionated, right, in New York.
00:07:04.180And we'd have someone go, hey, you need to tell your kid to wear a helmet or like tell Asia.
00:07:10.620And Asia would just constantly just, shut up.
00:08:55.860So I think it's a little scattered there, but I think he's asking, yeah, dude, are you going to put together the rite of passage by Ryan Mickler on Order of Man?
00:09:09.400And so we do that every couple of – twice a year I think is what we ended up doing those now.
00:09:14.760But it's a three-and-a-half-day experience in the mountains of southern Utah and we push men physically, mentally, emotionally.
00:09:21.320And I'm not bold enough to say that you can call yourself a man only if you've gone through the uprising.
00:09:27.220But I think the elements that are inside of the uprising, which is physicality, the mental component, the somewhat of sleep deprivation, being around other men, doing things you haven't done before,
00:09:38.080really pushing yourself, having conversations you haven't had, thoughts and ideas that you haven't ever thought about before.
00:09:44.920Those are the types of elements that are required, I think, in a rite of passage.
00:09:48.180And it's really sad because society just doesn't have rites of passages for boys anymore.
00:09:53.500I think outside of – as a young man, for me, it was Boy Scouts, which Boy Scouts has made some horrendous decisions over the past several years.
00:10:02.080We can get into that in another conversation and sports as well, competitive sports.
00:10:08.720But I don't think boys really have these rites of passages.
00:10:28.600If you go to Order of Man and you search for rite of passage, you can see – I think I've broken down five, six, seven elements that every rite of passage should have.
00:10:38.280And you can go out there and create your own.
00:10:39.800But, yeah, rites of passage are critical.
00:13:47.720When somebody crosses the line that you've identified, then you inform that individual in a polite and respectful way and you just do it.
00:13:58.660I think there's some other elements to this as well.
00:14:01.280One of the elements I think of for sure is how much do you respect yourself?
00:14:05.500Because a lot of times people feel like they get walked over and then when you start asking and digging deeper, they don't even respect themselves.
00:14:11.880Which is being exuded in the way that they're communicating and interacting with their coworkers and bosses and employees, etc., etc.
00:14:19.000If you don't respect yourself, then how can you expect other people to respect you?
00:14:23.160So the first component of this is what are you doing in your life worthy of being respectful of yourself, right?
00:15:26.580You don't walk anywhere once you get onto this field.
00:15:29.200And the fourth component is we will respect each other.
00:15:31.480And we broke that down and we talked about what that means.
00:15:33.680You've got to articulate the expectation because if you have this in your mind and you're not sharing it with individuals, they may or may not know what it is you're talking about.
00:15:41.640Or they may be completely caught off guard when you get upset about something they said and they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:16:02.380Would you say, Ryan, that this becomes a difficult scenario for most people because they don't set boundaries up front?
00:16:11.840Relationships go down a negative path.
00:16:14.680And now they're having to react to a negative scenario in the relationship and have now a difficult conversation because they never set up boundaries to begin with.
00:16:26.600I think that's definitely a component.
00:17:03.660Because if you don't address them immediately and then you come back six hours later and try to correct a problem, the dog doesn't even know what you're upset about.
00:17:10.680And we think we're all that much different.
00:17:13.580If you, if you see a problem and you don't address it immediately, and then you come back two days later and you're like, hey, remember yesterday and you did X, Y, and Z.
00:17:21.940And this happens in relationships too, right?
00:17:38.420Problem number three is people are just cowards.
00:17:41.500They're scared that they're so scared to have a difficult conversation with somebody that they just let it slide, let it slide, let it slide.
00:17:53.680And I'm not suggesting that Greg is doing this, but I know a lot of guys who bring up these questions because they're so afraid of having a difficult conversation.
00:18:02.100So get good at having difficult conversations.
00:18:04.180When you see something that needs to get brought up, bring it up.
00:18:07.040Have the uncomfortable conversation with your kid about taking the joyride.
00:18:10.420Have the uncomfortable conversation with your wife about how she made you feel.
00:18:14.380Have the uncomfortable conversation with the employee who continues to show up late.
00:18:19.060The more you do that, the better you'll get at it.
00:21:31.380For me, I have very clear and concise boundaries to come back to that conversation we're having earlier about when I'm working, when I'm not working, when I put my phone up, when I eliminate distractions because I'm engaged with my family, when my kids have my attention, when I'll be coaching, when my wife has my attention.
00:21:46.460And to the best of my ability, and I can always get better at this, I do not let anything get in the way of those things.
00:21:55.280Three weeks ago, and a lot of guys have heard me talk about this now, and you and I both went out to Maine two, three weeks ago and did Origins Immersion Camp.
00:22:04.480And I had scheduled this months ago, months ago, I had scheduled this to go out on, I believe, a Saturday.
00:22:11.720And after we had scheduled it, we got the plane flights booked, all that stuff taken care of.
00:23:30.420Guys, we give away our responsibility and all the benefits that come with it.
00:23:37.880The power that comes with taking responsibility over your life.
00:23:40.580I call it the book Sovereignty, which is the battle for the hearts and minds of men.
00:23:43.660And it's our ability to give away power to our spouses and the government and our employers and our kids and this and that at the expense of our own well-being.
00:23:54.780And I think most of us are noble and virtuous in our intentions, meaning we want to sacrifice and we want to provide and we want to take care of other people.
00:24:05.780And we want to give as much as we can, but if we don't figure out a way to accept the burden of responsibility, I just think we're living a life less than we're capable of.
00:24:15.400And I say burden of responsibility, but it's also an amazing thing as well, because in my life, every time I've taken on some meaningful measure of responsibility, I'm not talking about just taking on tasks for the sake of taking on tasks.
00:24:29.700I'm talking about meaningful, purposeful responsibility. My life has always been enhanced. It's always got better when I accept a greater burden of responsibility, when I step up at work and I take on a new project or I get promoted or I have a child or when I got married or when I started this business or when I decided to level up my fitness, every area of life, when you can take responsibility for it and you give yourself the power.
00:24:58.740You give yourself the power to change your life, but too many guys give it all away, throw up their hands. There's nothing I can do. And then they get upset about why their life isn't as good as they hope it would be.
00:25:10.680It's amazing how the opposite of that is, it's not your responsibility. And there's a little bit of victimness that is applied to that. I mean, taking responsibility is also coming to the realization that you have a say in the matter, that you have the opportunity to change it or evolve it or adjust, right?
00:25:31.400There's, there's, there's an area of growth that's kind of tied to that, that opportunity to, to take or to have your sovereignty, right?
00:25:39.940Yeah. I mean, you're right. And that's so true. That's a great, that's a great recognition is that the opposite of that is, is the victim mentality. And we see it everywhere. I mean, so many people just love, love, love, love cling to this idea that they're the victim, that somehow somebody owes them something or they don't have what they should have because people are keeping them back or some circumstance beyond their control is what's keeping them back.
00:26:04.360Look, there might be some truth to that. No doubt. I'm not going to say that that's not the case. There might be some truth to that, but you are significantly weaker when you adhere to that so much so that you aren't willing to take action in some burden of responsibility in the ultimate circumstances in which you find yourself. I see this all the time. I had done a, uh, uh, Friday field notes. I think last week, uh, nobody owes you a thing. And I can't tell you how many messages I got from guys.
00:26:32.260You're like, well, somebody owes me minimum wage and my parents got cancer, which I'm sorry, that's unfortunate. And, and so people owe them things because they got cancer. It's like, you know, I get where you're coming from. I do, but it's all on us to take care of what we can take care of. Stop shifting the responsibility. You know what? Just stop focusing on the things that are out of your control. Yeah. There are things beyond your control. Just stop focusing on those things and focus on the things that look, you could. Okay.
00:27:01.920So you got cancer. I, I can't imagine what that's like. I have family members that have gone through that. I have family members that have gone through worse. And I'm not saying that isn't a crappy hand. It certainly is a crappy hand, but what can you do to enhance your life with the hand that you've been dealt? And there's so much that you can do so much.
00:27:23.040Well, and there's an opportunity to rise above, right. And, and, and, and even become even a greater person than you would have been without the hardship and the thing outside of your control.
00:27:34.040Yes. I haven't shared this very often, but so my oldest, uh, and I think we've talked about this.
00:27:39.340You and I have. Yeah. Yeah. So my oldest son, so he was born with a hearing loss, um, a moderate to severe hearing loss. So with, you know, when he was four months old, he got little baby hearing aids and he's had those most of his life and was diagnosed as autistic.
00:27:57.400And then roughly about, geez, how long has it been now? Maybe three years ago. Um, we found out that he's losing his vision. So he has ushers syndrome and the diagnosis from the, from the doctor is that he will lose his vision entirely.
00:28:17.900And, and, and think of it as a donut that just gets smaller and smaller throughout his life. Right now, Brendan is his name is the perfect example of someone going, okay, here's my lot. It's unfair. It completely sucks ass and it's unfortunate, but guess what? I'm not going to be a victim about it. He's not a victim about it.
00:28:40.180I've never heard him complain or even ever say anything about what was me, poor me, or this is so unfair. Like he never complains. Like his first response was, so how am I going to get around when I'm older forward thinking? Yeah. I'm like, you're going to have to take a bus and probably get a walking dog and you'll have a cane and you'll have to learn how to use the buses.
00:29:03.600Like he has accepted the lot that has been handed to him and then has decided like, okay, that is the fact. It's not right. It's not wrong. It is what's so now, how do I rise above this and, and proceed forward? And it's inspiring.
00:29:18.080And, and I, and I, and I know it sounds super weird, but who he is as a young man and how our family interacts is partly because of how he decided to deal with that circumstance. It inspires us. It inspires me all the time.
00:29:36.220So I'm not saying that was his lot or that it's okay that it happened to him, but he has certainly taken this as an opportunity to not be a victim and to rise above the circumstance. It's been handed to him.
00:29:49.940It's awesome, man. I mean, that's, yeah. What more do you say? It's awesome. It's amazing. Great example. Yeah. Very cool. All right. Joel Ramirez. I make decisions period. Good. I'm just, yeah. Good job, Joel.
00:30:03.860Um, sometimes they work out great. Sometimes we take a loss. Is it okay to take my family for that ride or should I start playing it safe to protect my family from any hardships that may come?
00:30:16.960Well, that's the nature of decisions. Sometimes they work out and sometimes they don't. That, that is the nature of making decisions. And as a man, I believe it's our responsibility to make some of those decisions, uh, on behalf of the people that we're leading in this case, your family. Now, should you include them in that decision? Uh, yeah.
00:30:32.340If you're married and you're making decisions that will impact your wife and your children, then you probably ought to include her in the decision-making process. Just like I do with my wife. Uh, is it okay to take my family for that ride? Talk with your wife. You guys decide that together. There's some risks that are worth taking. One of the risks that we are considering right now is, is moving. And you, Kip and I have talked about this is there's a risk associated with moving. What if we don't like the new place?
00:30:58.380What if the schools aren't good? What if it doesn't work out? What if who knows? We buy a lemon of a house. I don't know, whatever, all of the, the, the risks that come with it. So what do we do? Well, we mitigate against that risk by saving money and having our debt and everything in order and having a place to come back to. And we mitigate some of that risk. Uh, but we feel like collectively, my wife and I, that the risk is worth a potential reward and gain of, of experience and adventure, which is why we're doing it.
00:31:26.080So there's other times where the risk is too great for the potential reward. And so you don't make that decision. This is an interesting thought when he says, should I play it safe? I think too many people play it too safe. What I would suggest doing is playing it out. Like if you go start a business, let's think about this. You're an employee somewhere and you're making relatively good money.
00:31:48.380You're happy with where you are. And yet you feel like business or, or something different is calling to you. The question then is, do I go pursue that? Or do I stay where I am? And there's a lot of ways you can pursue this that will mitigate some of that risk. Like maybe you don't quit. You just go work as a side business, right? But let's just assume for the sake of argument that you go out and you do that thing. What's the worst that can happen?
00:32:12.600Well, the business could flop. You could run out of money. So you won't have any way to pay for food or a roof over your head. Okay. Well, how do you mitigate that? By putting money in savings. Good. Check. Got that done.
00:32:25.540Okay. Now, or, or you, you could, maybe you don't enjoy it. Maybe it's not a viable business model. Maybe everything falls apart. Maybe the economy goes away. What's the worst that can happen? Well, you got to go get a new job. Can you get a new job? Are you hireable? Well, I have this degree in this designation in a field that doesn't have, it has a high demand, but not a lot of people to fill it. So yeah, there's places I can go. Cool. Then I think that risk is probably worth taking or at least exploring.
00:32:52.640So figure out what the risk is, figure out if the potential reward is, uh, is relevant enough to take that risk and then mitigate that risk by putting yourself in a position that will limit exposure to loss.
00:33:05.660So much of those risks seem to be tied to mindset. As you know, roughly about seven, eight years ago, and geez, no, it's been longer than that. Nine or 10 years ago, I started my own business and it seems so risky. It seems so dangerous.
00:33:22.180And, and a phrase that I'd tell myself all the time that made me feel like calm was, uh, you know, if it doesn't work out, I'll just go get a job. Right. And I could do that anytime, like anytime moment I could go, you know what? Yeah, it's not working out. I'm going to go get a job.
00:33:36.800Right. Anytime you can do that. That's not risky. You know, and I hear that. I think the greater risk, and I'm not saying this is bad. All right. So somebody who's an employee of an organization and loves what they do, I'm not saying this is bad.
00:33:46.540But for me, from my perspective, the greater risk is putting myself at the hands of an employer or a company or an industry or the economy in a way that doesn't resonate with what I want to do. At least within business for me, if things aren't going right, I have the power to actually change.
00:34:01.400I have the power to evolve, to adapt, to grow, to create new offerings that consumers are going to want to own and purchase and be part of that to me is empowering that that's not risky to me, but that took a lot of change in my mindset because I grew up in a household where you will get a job.
00:34:19.200My mom was working three jobs at one time in order to provide. And so she went out and she got her jobs and she did what she needed to do. And business and entrepreneurship wasn't even something on the radar because I hadn't been exposed to it. So it seemed risky at first until I got involved, until I saw what other people were doing. And then it became less risky than the alternative.
00:34:39.660Yeah. Just a great example of just mindset. How much that versus reality.
00:34:45.180Yeah. Well, and I would say too, to your point, because Kip, that's a really good point is surround yourself with people who are doing the, or taking the type of risks that you want. Like I've got a friend, his name's Andy Stumpf. A lot of the guys are familiar. He's a Navy SEAL and he's crazy. He does base jumping, right? So he jumps off bridges and buildings and does that squirrel suit flying and everything else. And my thought is if you're going to take a risk like that, you probably want to surround yourself with experts who understand the potential downfalls and what to look for in a suit and how to fly and how to do everything.
00:35:14.760So that you know what the expectation is and you know what risks you might be facing, even the ones you can't see. So find, find people who are taking the same sorts of risks and communicate with them, have conversations with them. So you can start to have a clear expectation of, of what reality is versus what you've made up in your mind.
00:35:32.320All right. Next question is from JD Gamble. Addressing the role of one's faith in relationship to one's masculinity.
00:35:42.720Addressing the role of faith in relationship to masculinity. Well, I know for me, I am a man of faith. I believe in God. I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe in the Bible and I believe in what we learn about in scripture.
00:35:58.880And I believe that is the foundation of what makes me a man. And so if you're asking about my role or my, excuse me, my faith is a role in masculinity. It's a huge foundational principle of it.
00:36:12.300In fact, a lot of what we talk about here is Christian based. I don't talk about it from a Christian perspective necessarily. And there's reasons for that. You can go back and listen to, I think it was maybe the third asked me anything or fourth asked me anything that we did.
00:36:24.180We actually addressed that. Uh, but I don't, I don't necessarily believe that it has to be. I believe that there's other foundational principles and virtues and things that people adhere to that help them identify and develop their own sense of masculinity.
00:36:39.720So the answer is find something that works for you. I do believe there has to be some sort of foundational principle. There has to be some sort of rules or parameters in which you operate. If it's just chaos, I don't think that's going to help you be the most effective man possible.
00:36:59.000I just had Jocko willing on the podcast yesterday, and we were talking about his new book, dichotomy of leadership, but him and Leif, their, their, one of their previous books was extreme ownership. And he talks about discipline equals freedom. And Aristotle said something very similar through discipline comes freedom 2000 years ago. He said that.
00:37:17.840And, and, and what that means is that when you adhere to a set of parameters that you've identified as being important to you, then you actually free yourself, right? If you, if you, for example, if you cling to healthy principles, like I will eat, right, I will consume real food. I will exercise. I will move my body. I will do all of these things that we know how to do.
00:37:37.640So then the likelihood of you, then the likelihood of you living a healthier, longer, more meaningful life is significantly greater because you imposed your own set of limitations upon yourself. If you didn't, and you had all the donuts, you never exercised, you did whatever you wanted to do. The risk of you living a shorter life or not unhealthy life are significantly greater. So find a set of parameters, whether it's faith-based or something else in which you feel you can operate so that you can produce the type of life.
00:38:07.640that you're wanting to produce for yourself. Cool. There you go, JD. Next question, Blake Byron Walker. His question is, we tend to emphasize decisiveness and sticking to your guns on a problem or an issue, but I'm curious to hear your perspective on intelligence and holding multiple conflicting ideas in mind and making complex decisions.
00:38:27.400I remember this question from last week. And I think I had said something to the effect of decisiveness and intelligence is not, those are not conflicting terms. You can be intelligent. You can take in new information. You can even be decisive and then change your mind.
00:38:47.300Some people call this wishy-washy, right? He's wishy-washy. Oh, he's a flip-flopper. Really? Maybe he just learned something new that he didn't have access to before. And now he does something different. I'm watching my kids play football. For example, my oldest, his 10, first year of tackle football.
00:39:06.000And my, my second is eight. This is his third year of flag football. And it's really interesting to watch their progression. Well, my oldest, my 10 year old comes home and he's talking about new plays and new ways of, of blocking and different things that he enjoys doing that he's never been exposed to.
00:39:24.000And so he sees the game in a whole new light because he's got new information that he didn't previously have access to. So I would hope that he would change. And I would hope that any intelligent man who comes across new information, even though he may have had a current path that he was on is willing to accept that maybe he didn't have the entire picture. Maybe there's a new perspective that he didn't see.
00:39:45.280And when you take on that new perspective and you're willing to open yourself up to the possibility that there's a new and better way you improve your likelihood of success, we see things in such a limited scope. And sometimes that works out and other times it doesn't, but the more stimulus in the form of information that you can let into your life, the more capable you are of making the correct decisions for yourself and the people you have a responsibility for.
00:40:11.060Yeah. So I think it's important to be decisive. And I also think it's important to be open-minded and hold conflicting ideas is what I think Blake said. Um, you can do both.
00:40:23.960Yeah. In the iron council, we, we use this term, you know, after action review, would you mind sharing that a little bit of, of kind of the role that plays in, in your life and how that applies to this concept?
00:40:37.600Oh yeah, sure. I mean, so the after action review is something I learned in the military and basically it's a, a system for reviewing whatever it is you did, whether it's a military exercise or a conversation that you had, or this podcast, I'll do an after action review or a project that you may do at work or a conversation that you have with your kids.
00:40:54.840But it's an opportunity for you to look back on that engagement and evaluate yourself objectively how you did. What did you accomplish? What didn't you accomplish? What did you do? Well, where did you thrive? Where did you fall behind? And the most important question, what can you do better moving forward?
00:41:13.020Those are the kinds of reviews that I do. And I used to write these out at the end of the day, every day I would, I would do a written out after action review. I don't anymore because it's so internalized that I look at everything I do. Like I said, I'll do one after this podcast. I did one last week and I, and I told you in the beginning of this podcast, I said last week I wasn't on.
00:41:32.180Well, that's because I went back and I reviewed and I thought to myself, no, Ryan, you were off. You were down, you're a little under the weather. You weren't feeling well, whatever it was. So you were putting out an inferior product. And in this case, the recording didn't work anyway. So I think it was somewhat of divine inspiration maybe.
00:41:48.200But we come back here and I do it differently this time. And this is going to be a significantly better podcast than that ever had the potential of becoming because I was willing to look at it objectively and figure out where we could do better and where we should do better.
00:42:02.180And what I love about that, Ryan, is that it's, it's intentional, right? Like if we look at Blake's question, it's like, we tend to emphasize decisiveness and, you know, perspectives and multi holding conflicting ideas. Sometimes we wait for that to happen to us, right? We wait for a scenario to come up and then, and, and challenge us. And then we go, Oh, well, maybe I should change it. Or it's a very reactive. It could be very reactive where, and after action review is I completed something. How did it go?
00:42:32.180What adjustments do I need to make? Is there conflicting ideas that I need to possibly implement or adjust as part of the overall process? And it's tied to the results and the actions in which you took. I don't know. It's just a great example in my mind of being intentional about possible conflict of ideas and considering other perspectives as part of what we do on a regular basis.
00:43:58.700test. That is less likely to get your ego involved and open you up to the possibility that maybe there's a different way. I'm not saying I'm above doing that, you know, falling prey to my ego. I do it all the time. People will say something on Facebook or Instagram or whatever. They'll come back with a, with a comment that's counter to what I had just said. And my knee jerk reaction is like, well, you're wrong. I'm like, well, hold on. Maybe they're not attacking me individually.
00:44:24.700Maybe they're not the enemy. Maybe they're not the enemy. Maybe they're not the enemy. Maybe they're actually helping me expand my capability, broaden my horizon, which will ultimately serve me very, very well. So be open to that. Be careful of the ego.
00:44:43.040Yeah. Cool. So Keith's Cornell's question is a word, uh, leadership and Keith, you know, it's funny when we recorded this last week, we're talking about a better episode this time than what we did last time. I think last time I just threw Keith under the bus and said, Hey, you should put a question mark on that or whatever. And you know what? I may have copied this in wrong or whatever. So with that in mind, Keith Cornell, what I'm going to suggest is I'm just going to ask Ryan, you know, for
00:45:13.040four tips around leadership that you think would, would be a beneficial to people in leadership positions.
00:45:21.240I'm only going to give one, and then we can expand on that. And the one tip is your job as a leader is to render yourself obsolete. Period. Your job as a leader is to put yourself out of work.
00:45:33.980And what that looks like may have a whole spew of ideas, right? What are the actions that a leader might need to take to make themselves obsolete?
00:45:44.720Sure. Yeah. I mean, there's, there's an infinite number of areas and directions we can go with that. Right. But I think the foundational principle, knowing that your job is to put yourself out of a job, whether it's a father or a project manager or leader at work.
00:45:57.580Jocko talked about him as a commander in Iraq is to get yourself to a position where you're no longer needed to make some of these other decisions so that you can go on to something new.
00:46:11.520So how do you do this? Well, I think you give people opportunities to lead. You know, I'll take fatherhood. For example, my job is to not be needed. I know that sounds really strange.
00:46:23.400Uh, and some people say, well, you're just, you're building up your own competition. You're no, you're not. All right. You're, you're helping other people. And that is always a good thing.
00:46:32.960So I try to give my sons and my daughter as many leadership opportunities as possible. I try not to rescue them from the situations and the circumstances, negative situations and circumstances in which they find themselves because I want them to develop a skillset and the mindset to be able to, to master those challenges when they arise.
00:46:52.100I, I think service, having a servant mindset is critical. You're there to serve. You're not there to push other people down. You're there to, to lift people up.
00:47:01.660Did we use the analogy of climbing over a wall? Was that last week for this? Or was that another one?
00:47:09.920So the analogy we used is that if you and your team have the objective to climb over this wall, that I think a lot of people think, okay, Kip, my, I got to get over this wall.
00:47:21.880So get down and I'm going to step on your knees and then your shoulders and then your head, and then I'm going to get over the wall.
00:47:25.800But a leader, I don't think does that. I think a leader says, all right, Kip, we're going to get over this wall. I want you to use me. I want you to put your foot on my hands and then I'm going to prop my hands up. And then I want you to step up onto my shoulders. And then I want you to step up my head. And then I want you to pull yourself up the rest of the way. And I think what you said is you're going to look over the wall and flip me off after that happens. I think that's what you said.
00:47:45.580No, I, I, I envision we're having a tank top on and I curl you. It's an order of man tank top. You got to make sure you say that it's not just any tank top. That's right. That's exactly what would happen. But you guys get the point, right? The point is, is that you are, you are being used, if you will, as the footstool for bigger and greater things for the people you're working to serve. And I think so many leaders say, no, I'm going to step on you to get to the top. No, you'll get to the top. You will get to the top. Zig Zig Ziglar.
00:48:15.580Said, if you help enough people get what they want, you will inevitably get what it is you want.
00:48:21.580I love that. I love that. It's one of my favorite quotes. And it's so true. I found it to be so true in my life.
00:48:27.400Well, and I have, if you don't mind me sharing, I have a perfect example of this. I, I did this leadership, um, seminar slash program a few years back and they, we had to create a project to cause impact within our community. And, and it was over a few months and, and people,
00:48:45.560people engulfed themselves in making sure that this project was going to work. And then in the last stages of the project and without any of us knowing that this was going to happen, they said, now give it to someone else.
00:49:00.120Hmm. And everyone was pissed immediately like what, but I've worked so hard and, and this is my baby. And so much identity was being created around how this project was going to be this huge success. And, and there's ego involved, right? Like you would know that I'm going to look good, right? When this thing happens and, and it's tied to who I am and my value as a person.
00:49:24.280And then you're, you do all this work to make sure it's a success. And then you hand it over to someone else to almost kind of take the credit. Yeah. And it, and it was such an, a revealing exercise. It was super, super cool.
00:49:37.280What was the point? What was the, what was the ultimate objective of that exercise?
00:49:40.820It was to give a way and to be a leader, to prop someone else up and say, and to have the conversation with them that, Hey, I believe in you, you can do this. And I'm going to hand over the reins to you. It was, it was a way to your point. It was a way of propping them up over that wall and saying,
00:50:00.280can you take this on and, and, and, and causing us to individual, to have the mindset individually to realize that guess what, who, who you are as a leader is not sometimes in the limelight. It's not about taking credit. A lot of the time, you know, we, we get this from Jocko quite a bit. And we've heard this in other leadership books and whatnot, that you, you praise your team. They're the ones that did all the work. You praise them. You don't take the praise.
00:50:26.560And then when the problem goes wrong, you take accountability. Yeah. Right. And, and that's what leaders, that's what leaders do.
00:50:33.020Well, and, and to me, what is as a leader or just an individual, a man in general, what is your ultimate objective? I mean, is your ultimate objective to be served? Is your ultimate objective to, to stand on a pedestal and say, look at me and how good I am and every, all the good and wonderful things I did, or is your objective as a leader to actually add value to really create something significant and meaningful in people's lives?
00:50:55.300You know, I, I look at a order of man, this, this movement, for example. And of course I want to have impact and I have big aspirations for myself. And those are significant goals that I have and income goals that I have and the experiences that we have within this organization and family. Sure. Of course.
00:51:13.600But at the end of the day, if I can see literally millions of men across the planet that are salvaging broken and devastated marriages, they're able to rekindle relationships with their children who they didn't know how to connect with before.
00:51:30.460That get rid of that extra 30, 40, 50 pounds they've been packing around for 10 years, that get the promotion, that start the businesses, that raise their children. Like if I see that, that to me is significantly better than look at me, look how great and wonderful I am. It's no, look at him. Look at Kip.
00:51:53.940Look how far he's come in the five episodes on this podcast that we've done. Look at the guys in the iron council who are doing all the things I just talked about. Look at the millions of men who are listening to this podcast and improving their lives.
00:52:06.160That to me is the evidence of what we're doing, not me standing on the pedestal and everyone pointing up to me and telling me how great I am.
00:52:15.200That feels good, right? I mean, that feels good. And that's, that's the danger is that it feels really good, but it also feels really good to me when somebody else succeeds. And I know in my heart, I don't even have to say it. I know in my heart that I had a small part to play in the progression of that individual.
00:52:33.520Yeah. Well, and I think that, that progression on the ego side or individual side is fleeting.
00:52:44.680That will only last so long, right? But when, when your impact is being kept alive in other people through service to them and they're leveling up, that lasts, right? The, the impact is so substantially, uh, I don't know, the longevity of it, right? Is substantially longer.
00:53:02.600Well, it's, it's generational, right? You go in and you change a man who, who interacts with his wife, interacts with his kids, interacts in his community.
00:53:11.560And then the people he's serving, they go on to interact with their spouses and their kids and their communities and so on and so on and so on. You will never ever be able to accurately measure the impact that you are having on another individual and society as a whole. Never. And that works both positively and negative. By the way, the negative impact you have will last. The positive impact you have will last. And you can't possibly measure how long that will last.
00:53:39.580And I don't know about you guys, but like, that's why this podcast, that's why the order of man movement, the iron council and what we are doing is so huge, right? Like I, you know, we talk about this all the time on, on our battle team, or at least I try to bring it up all the time that like the impact is so much greater.
00:54:01.580Like we think like, and even, even guys, part of the Facebook group or even people listening right now, we think that you're listening to this podcast for you. I'm listening to this podcast so I can, you know, better myself or become a better father or husband or son or whatever.
00:54:17.040Uh, it's much bigger than that. You're listening to this podcast. You're part of the iron council. Why? Because you want to have a positive impact on your kids. You want to be a better husband. You want to create an environment where your kids are protected, where you're presiding.
00:54:35.280Like the impact is far greater than just our individual selves. Right. And, and that's what makes Ryan, like what you've done with the order of man and what you continue to do. So impactful, man, it's, it's so awesome. And it's obvious in the growth and just the, the mass, the awesomeness of, of what's really going on, uh, regarding, you know, this podcast and, and your interviews and your book and everything else. It's, it's, it gives me chills.
00:55:05.760Well, I mean, I appreciate that. And I'm glad you're part of it. I think doing this together with you and the other guys and the, and the millions of people that listen, like, I think that's what makes it significant. If it was just me on my own, like how, how, how miserable, like we don't live in these vacuums. We live in ecosystems with, with people that are impacted by the things that we're doing. And so we might as well make the best and the most greatest impact, positive impact that we possibly can.
00:55:34.420All right. Matthew Hulk. Hey, Matthew. I think I know you. Um, how's it going, buddy? All right. So his question, I'd enjoy hearing your thoughts on making a mark. I'd say as fathers, one of the greatest legacies we can leave is our children in the form of well-developed people. Beyond that though, is making a mark, uh, on the world, a sign of ego, or is it a duty to leave the world a better place than we found it?
00:55:58.020Um, this kind of ties into what we just talked about?
00:56:28.020It's not the reason I do it. It's just a byproduct of what it is I'm doing. Right. So, so it's not, it's not at the expense of other individuals. It's at the enhancement of them. So yes, I am, I am served by doing this podcast. I am uplifted. I am edified. I am inspired.
00:56:58.020Feel good about that. And I'm uplifted. And my, my heart and soul are, are, are filled as well. So maybe it's selfish. Is that always a bad thing? No, I think it's okay to serve yourself. I think it's okay to take care of yourself.
00:57:11.620Now, if it comes at the expense of other individuals, then I think that's a, that's a problem, but very rare, I think is, is the instance, unless you're doing something illegal, immoral, or unethical, that you're doing something that's going to uplift yourself. And it's coming at the direct expense of somebody else.
00:57:27.480Do you think that, Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead.
00:57:29.900Well, I was just going to say, do you think that that ego is something that never goes away? And then it's a, it's a constant thing that you need to keep in check and kind of evaluate and make sure that it's, it's not getting in the way always. I don't think there's a, I don't think there's a soul on the planet who doesn't deal with some level of ego, ego. I think it's always there. I think it's more prevalent for some people than others.
00:57:54.680And I think it's just, you just got to be careful because for example, pride, we use that word, we use pride and arrogance and ego all kind of in the same meaning, but, but, but they're not ego and arrogance to me is something that isn't really earned or it's excessive.
00:58:14.680Meaning that you did something good and you just, you just took it to the extreme and you allowed it to become a hindrance. Now, proud being proud of your accomplishments. There's nothing wrong with that. You should be proud. You should be wanting to make yourself proud. You should be wanting to put yourself in difficult situations where you really have to test your mettle as a man and then come out of those unscathed and be proud of the man that you were and the man that you've become.
00:58:44.680It's when we take it to the extreme that we end up sabotaging ourselves because we think we're invincible or we think that nothing can get to us or that we're just divinely guided and directed.
00:59:00.420So nothing bad will ever happen because we have divine providence, right? That's a problem. And what the problem is, is that that leaves us open to all sorts of blind spots that we're unwilling to look at. Being proud is one thing, being arrogant, egotistical, and allowing the blind spots to sabotage yourself is a dangerous, dangerous game that we ought to avoid playing.
00:59:25.600So in that same area of ego, Rob and Bruggen's question is individualism and the ego. Me, personally, I don't know what he means by individualism, but perhaps you do.
00:59:39.600I mean, it could mean so many different things. Individualism. It's good to be an individual. You have your own set of unique skills and abilities and talents and ambitions and experiences and beliefs and cultural backgrounds that make you an individual.
00:59:57.760But I think there's also an element of serving the collective. And the collective could be your family. The collective could be your employees or your employer, just your coworkers. The collective could be your neighborhood. It could be a church organization. It could be a fraternity. It could be some organization in which you belong. It could be so many different things.
01:00:23.600Your individual experiences. Bringing those to the collective is a collective is a good thing.
01:00:30.540I don't really understand how this ties into the ego necessarily, unless you're trying to take over some organization with your own way of doing things. Maybe you're a boss and you think you have it all figured out. So you're unwilling to listen to your quote unquote subordinates. That's egotistical. That's what I was talking about. You're opening yourself up to blind spots.
01:00:51.420Instead, you should take your individual talents, gifts, abilities, skills, and combine those with the individual talents, gifts, and abilities of skills of the other people so that you guys can collectively win.
01:01:06.760I don't know if that answers his thought process, but that's how I would address that.
01:01:14.500All right. Let's do maybe a couple more, Kip. I know we're getting somewhat close on time here, so let's just do a couple more.
01:01:19.840Yeah. Okay. Sounds good. All right. Jeremy Hine, his question is, how do you keep work at work? So apparently this is a lot like the boundary conversation, but I think what Jeremy's specifically asking here is what tools have you employed to keep some separation and what tools and methods have worked or did not work?
01:01:37.920So maybe a little bit more on the tactical side above and beyond just establishing boundaries perhaps.
01:01:43.460Well, so yeah, I look at what distractions get in the way and I try to eliminate those distractions.
01:01:50.760One, for example, the cell phone, obviously, you know, I'm at work. Most of my 99% of my business is done online and I have that thing everywhere.
01:02:00.40024 seven, even when I'm sleeping, it's right by my head. So eliminating that altogether, putting it away, turning it off, leaving it in the car, locking it in a safe, doing whatever it is you need to do to get rid of that.
01:02:12.040So that you can be engaged with your family is critical. Uh, as far as leaving family stuff at home, address family stuff. When you have the opportunity to address family stuff, the more that you can address the work, when you're engaged in the work, meaning address family stuff, handle it correctly, get your bills paid on time, have the conversations with the wife and the kids that need to be had.
01:02:33.800The more likely it is that you're going to be fully engaged in business. If you're dinking around at the office and you're not doing everything that needs to be done and you aren't diligent in your tasks and your, your responsibilities, then you're going to get home and you're going to be frustrated because you didn't do your work that, you know, you should have been done.
01:02:49.700And all you're doing is thinking about work when you should be hanging out with your family. It's because you weren't productive with the time that you had. So make, make some plans every night when I'm done, I make a new plan for tomorrow.
01:03:01.640And then when I get in, in the morning, I'm talking about specifically business. Now, when I get into the, in the office in the morning, I review the plan. I adapted, adjusted based on emails and other things that I've received from throughout the night or new information or ideas. And I'm, and I readjust and I make a new plan for that day. And I do that over and over and over again. But I also do the same thing for my family.
01:03:19.820My wife and I talk about what we're going to do every morning, me and my wife and kids have a family meeting and we talk about, okay, here's football practice. And we need to take our daughter to this dance recital. She's got soccer practice today. So we've got to take her here and you've got to go pick up this and I've got to run this errand.
01:03:39.240And so we get on the same page and we have these meetings so that we're all on the same page and we know what needs to be accomplished. And then we execute. And because we're able to get those things done effectively, it frees up our space and capacity to focus on work or to focus on home when those things need to be focused on.
01:03:53.780Yeah. I'm wondering how much of this has to do with the mindset that some people have that, that they can multitask, right? That I can be present and effective hanging out with the kids at the campfire and, and still answer some work emails, right? Like we have this mindset that we can juggle things. And in reality, I think it's folly to think that we're, even if it's just multiple work tasks, right?
01:04:17.980The idea of multitasking has been proven to not exist, right? It doesn't even exist. It's not possible. And, and what I'm hearing from, from what you're saying, Ryan, is it's, we need to engulf ourselves, right? If we're with the family, we're with the family. If we're at work, we're with, we're at work. And for me personally, I plan family things no different than I plan work things.
01:04:39.300Why should you, it is no different. Yeah. I mean, if we have date night on Monday night, guess what? That's on my calendar. And I'm intentional with that. Just like I am. If I had a meeting, you know, in a boardroom.
01:04:51.060Yep. Yep. Um, Jocko yesterday in the podcast that I just released said, and I'm paraphrasing here, said something to the effect of we build credibility and authority by performing in excellence in everything we do. Something along those lines.
01:05:09.300And, and I'm thinking about you saying date night, you better be the best damn date that your wife has ever had. And when you're at work or you're on a, let's take a sales call. You're making a sales call. That better be the best damn sales call that other individual has ever heard. Or when you're, and I'm just looking at a picture that a friend of mine sent, his name's Trent Tobler. He does some amazing artwork, oil paints. And when he's sitting in his office and he's painting, he better be the best damn painter that ever lived.
01:05:40.020We can't do that if we're constantly distracted by, well, I'm painting, but I can also answer this message or, oh, there's something really important at work on. I'm just going to take this call while you're sitting at the table at the restaurant with your wife.
01:05:53.800It's hard because there's so many distractions in life, but you better be the best fill in the blank that you can be whenever you are being that fill in the blank bottom line. And I think that will solve a
01:06:23.800question. So I got through most of the questions that we wanted to answer today. I got to go back to the drawing board and figure out what's going on with my recording software. But anyways, I think we got through a lot. I hope some of that helped. I hope that you're gaining some insight from these.
01:06:36.520Ask me anything. Make sure if you would just connect with us on social media. I'm over on Instagram, very active over there at Ryan Mickler. My last name is spelled M I C H L E R.
01:06:47.040But also on Twitter, also on Facebook, wherever you're doing the social media thing. So go out there, check it out, check out our new Patreon account, which I think we mentioned earlier in the show, patreon.com slash order of man. And there's all sorts of places you can find us. So I appreciate you guys being on this journey with us. I hope that you're enjoying the ask me anythings. Keep asking those questions. Kip and I will keep answering them. And until Friday for our Friday field notes, take action and become the man you are meant to be.
01:07:15.780Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.