Creating a Unified Front, Finding a Calling Greater than Ourselves, and Building Men's Groups in the Church ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING
Episode Stats
Summary
In this episode, I talk about a strange encounter I had with the FBI after the January 6th Inauguration, and why I didn t go to it. I also talk about how I found out that the FBI was investigating me.
Transcript
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You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.
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When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.
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You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong.
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This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.
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At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
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And then I also saw a post and one of the questions today from this Facebook group was about this as well.
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And so I might as well just dive into it. And maybe you can't disclose.
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Yeah. So this so this actually didn't happen recently.
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And I didn't I didn't try to be misleading. I could see how maybe it came across as misleading.
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It happened. It happened right as I think I was talking to my wife.
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It was right before. I think it might have been the weekend before the inauguration.
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That was probably after January 6th, because inauguration is what the 21st or 22nd, somewhere
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right in there. So it was in that window that I was gone on a business trip.
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Now, I didn't go to January 6th. I didn't participate in that.
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My wife, I remember, had mentioned like, hey, there's going to be marching and this and
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And she's like, why not? I said, what am I going to do?
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Just march around with a bunch of idiots and not get anything done like that sounds like
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And she's like, no, you should go like other people will be there.
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And then after everything went down on January 6th, she was like, I am so glad that you didn't
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And I said, I didn't I didn't know any of that was going to take place.
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But but clearly there was a little foresight there where I'm like, I'm not doing that.
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And as I'm away on our security cameras, an alert comes up and I just casually glance at it.
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And I see that there's two individuals that I don't recognize, a male and a female at my house.
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She was in town, but she was at home with the kids, but they were on an errand or something.
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And I call her up and I said, who who was at the door?
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And on the back of the card, it says something like we have questions for you.
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So I call the the office or whatever and ask for the agent and I talk with them.
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Like what you feel in that moment, because, you know, you haven't done anything wrong and
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yet you're racking your brain on what in the world the FBI could be visiting you about,
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especially when you talk about some of the subjects I talk about, especially as, as it
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was after January 6th, uh, which I think maybe by default, you, you might assume that I would
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I'm not, but you might assume that if you didn't know anything else about me.
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And then we had a new president that I was outspoken against.
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So there's like a lot going in my mind right now.
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And he didn't disclose a whole lot of information other than there was an investigation.
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And I, I was, I was racking my brain on like an investigation on me, an investigation on somebody
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So long story short, it sounds like somebody in one of our groups, just based on the conversation
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and the direction of the conversation, it went, I'm having a hard time illustrating the
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And there's so many gaps that I have to fill in because they would not disclose information
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But it sounds like somebody had made a statement that another person didn't like, or maybe I
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made a statement that somebody didn't like, again, I don't know.
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And they decided to report that to the FBI as some sort of credible threat or act of violence.
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And I have not had follow-up since I, so I said, well, why are you investigating me?
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This individual was asking me a lot of questions about me and a lot of questions about my organization
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This is a person who knew a lot about me, a lot about my history, and a lot about my
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And it sounds like based on what had happened, that somebody had made this report and that
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this individual at some point may have started walking back some of their comments based on
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And that this FBI agent was just trying to do a thorough investigation and figure out
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what in the world is the source of this threat or this report or this, whatever it was.
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And I said, you know, what, what, what do I need to do?
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I think that this country does have to have law and order.
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Nothing can work if we don't have law and order.
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You know, I want to, I want to make sure that I'm following the rules that I'm, but I'm also
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exercising my right to speech and bear arms and these other things that I have a right
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It was just very frustrating knowing how much they knew about me and the fact that they,
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We had a phone call and I answered questions over the phone.
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There was never any face-to-face interview or conversation.
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If your follow-up questions were just done over the phone.
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There's just a lot of dots that aren't connected and the timing of having a new presidency and me
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And, and the fact that I'm talking a lot about masculinity and manliness, and also the fact
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that I am rallying men around a cause, not a political cause by any means, but a cause to
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become better leaders, to serve their families, to serve their communities, to make themselves
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And I'm wondering if I got lumped in with, what is it?
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The Proud Boys or this QAnon people or, or there's not, what's the other one, 4chan or
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what, what, I don't know what all the groups are.
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Cause I just don't really, maybe I should pay more attention, but I don't.
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And I'm wondering if I got lumped into that, somebody made, uh, what they believe was a
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reputable allegation or claim against a person within my organization.
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Well, I actually know where this is coming from because you said a threat.
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And then I immediately went like, yeah, of course, because the jujitsu that we cover at
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legacy and main events is a threat to society because we're bad-ass and we're fully capable
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And I know you're, you're joking, but you're actually not totally wrong, but it's not a
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It's a threat to the individuals who want to control society.
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That's the problem is that when we talk about men being responsible and being sovereign and
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being individuals and leading their families well and having their financial house in
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The threat is that society becomes less controllable by the powers that be.
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And I honestly, I hate to say this, but I got to be really frank and forward with you guys
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on this is like, I didn't say anything about it initially because again, I've got my business.
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I've got things, you know, and I wish that I would have said something earlier, but I
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And now I need to actually start talking about it and make right for that and not sharing
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that because I do have a right to share that story.
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I do have the right to speak what's on my mind and experiences and things that have happened
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Very awkward, very strange, very scary for my wife.
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She was like me, very pissed, very upset about what was going on and how it went down and
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I wish I could tell you more, but it is what it is.
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Well, I was initially, I'm not now because there's nothing and there wasn't then, but
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there's nothing to be freaked out about, but still, you know, when the FBI comes knocking
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on your door, that's a, that's a thing you don't ever think you'd have to experience.
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I know a lot of these guys are like, well, I want it to be better.
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I wanted them to come in and bust your house down and take your guns away and, and haul
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And I'm sorry to disappoint you guys that that's not actually what went down.
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They sat down in the living room and, and Ryan left his blue belt laying over the couch.
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And then all of a sudden, like you notice their eye contact made, made, uh, made their
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And eventually like, did you just stop asking questions?
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They, they looked at the blue belt and they looked back over to me very slowly.
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And they said, well, what's, oh, you have a sling.
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I am assuming you've been what you binge watched terminal list.
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I watched it like in three nights, three or four nights.
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So yeah, it was good to see Jack make a little cameo, a four-time podcast guest.
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You guys got to know that some of you don't, I've had the opportunity to spend some time
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And the very first time I met Jack, I, I asked if you'd come on the podcast and I told him
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And he, I had met his wife, um, came to his house.
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And I started leaving and he came out and he, he went into his garage and he came back
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And he gave us some meat and there's, there's something special about the hunt community
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because we all share because that's what you do.
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Uh, but then there's something special about somebody who's like, Hey, have some of my family's
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His daughter and him shot that it was, I think if I understand correctly, her first elk, uh,
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and sharing that says a lot about, I think somebody, maybe I'm reading to provide, but
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It's food that they hunted and it changes the meaning of it.
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When, when Matt, our neighbor invites me over of, Hey, I'm cooking some elk.
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It's not like, Hey, when we went to Costco, we prepped and they got some ground beef at
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Yeah, no, this is, it's, it's a very meaningful thing for them to share that because the effort
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And I actually believe this is true about any community.
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So if it's hunting, if it's jujitsu, uh, any interest usually has some sort of community
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built around it is the beauty of it is that they're shared experiences.
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So when Jack tells me about him hunting, I can relate to that.
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And I'm doing him honor by listening to something that's important to him.
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And then also learning and gleaning information from what he did, what went well, what didn't
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And it's part of the reason why community is so important.
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And I also think to go back to our previous discussion, it's part of the reason why the
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powers that be don't want us actually congregating around righteous activities.
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That's why you see a dwindling and a dismissal, frankly, uh, and even, even attacks against
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Because that's where people to go to learn about morality.
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That's where they go to support and lean on each other.
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And that's where they go to become independent from any other institution or government that
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It's the other reason why you'll see a continued dismantle of once moral and very powerful communal
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I started talking about the problems with Boy Scouts about six or seven years ago.
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I had people say some nasty and vile things to me because of what I was saying about the
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But there's a clear and deliberate intention behind dismantling those.
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If you want to say it's a spiritual battle, I would agree with you.
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If you don't believe it's a spiritual battle, you can bet your butt that it's a temporal one
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because the government doesn't want you to be strong.
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It doesn't want you to be capable and it doesn't want you to be moral because you won't depend
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on the government if that's the case and they cannot pull on your strings.
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The government doesn't really want you educated.
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It wants you to learn how to be a cog in the wheel, which is why you see so much of this
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permeated through public schooling and also through higher level academia.
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And I hate to say this, but it really is the same thing in the medical community.
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They've known for years and years, if not decades, about the – well, I'll say this.
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They've made some of these drugs for mental illness more than they really are.
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And they've even shown studies that some of the other – like a placebo, a sugar pill basically
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works 85% as effective as some of these highly potent, powerful brain-altering chemical drugs.
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Okay, if you're telling me that the medical – and that's Big Pharma, I know, but it's
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also peddled by psychiatrists, medical doctors.
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If you're telling me they don't want you fat, broke, miserable, diseased, ill, and sedated,
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think about what they're doing with our young men.
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Every institution at its highest level is working to undermine and dismantle and diminish
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We have to understand and acknowledge that that is by design.
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But even if you believe it's just a temporal one, it's just as bad.
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So we better start waking up against what's happening in education, in government, in the
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It's a very scary time, but it's also a pivotal moment where we can decide to wake up and step
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And a great way to wake up is to, like you mentioned earlier, is join a community of
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like-minded individuals in which we're fielding the questions from our Facebook group today.
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So if you haven't joined us there, join us and get connected with like-minded people.
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Like even just last week, Bubba Downs was traveling through town.
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How nice was it for Bubba to go, hey, in town, called up Clint, grabbed dinner, edified through
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Because we're aligned in purpose in something greater than ourselves and rising up.
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And how refreshing that is to be around those kind of guys versus guys that just happen
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to be your wife's friend's husband or just random dude from high school that you played
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sports with that is a punk and you don't even care about.
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So geez, like let's be a little bit more selective in regards to the people that we hang out with.
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So to join us there, that's facebook.com slash group slash order of man.
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It is interesting, Kip, that most of the friendships you see with not just men, I think this applies
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to women as well, just happen to be by proximity by default.
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It's your buddy from high school because you live next door to him and you're in a bunch
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of the same classes and you're, or you played football with him.
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It's your next door neighbor because he smells you when you're having barbecue and he invited
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And now you feel like you have to invite him over for one.
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It's the guy that sits next to you in the cubicle and you're both miserable at your job.
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And so you talk about how miserable you are together.
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Now you're miserable together as if that's better.
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Yet then you look at every facet of their life, whether they're doing it or not, they
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all know they should have clearly defined goals and objectives.
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Again, whether they're doing it or not, every man knows that if I want to get in shape, I
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have to have a clear goal and a strategy for making it happen.
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If I want to start a business or get a promotion or make more money or get out of debt, then I
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have to have a clear goal and a strategy for making that happen.
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We understand that in every context of our lives, except relationships.
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And if we do, or somebody teaches us how to do it, our knee-jerk reaction is, well, you
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I can't, I'm trying to build, and you're telling me I should, I should have a system
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And if you can be more deliberate and intentional about the relationships that you have, just
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like your food plan and your meal prep, the better results you're going to experience.
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So don't, and by the way, your next door neighbor might actually be one of those guys that you
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You better put it through a litmus test and really find out if that's the guy you want
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And I don't know about you, Ryan, but as I get older, I realized I only have so much
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It's like, if, if I have a neighbor that doesn't make the cut, it's not like I'm a jerk to them.
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It's not like I disown them or whatever, but I got to be intentional in regards to where
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And it's not a discredit to them, or it's not like they're not valuable human beings.
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It's just, if, if I'm going to be intentional with my energy and my time, I should be spending
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You, again, you need to be deliberate and intentional.
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I'm going to share a Friday field notes this week.
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So you guys please listen, cause it's important.
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I feel like over the past 60 days or so, roughly I've fallen off a little bit, like physically,
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But I also have been getting on track over the past several weeks and what, and I have a
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list of reasons I've been documenting them all.
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I've got them all written right here because I want to share them with you.
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And one of the things that I've written down is just being more protective of my time and
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knowing that if something doesn't align with my goals and ambitions professionally and
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It's just a no, it's gotta be a no, because I felt like what was happening is because of the
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success of order of man and other facets of my life, there was so many opportunities and all
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these bright, shiny objects and everything was so busy.
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And rather than dealing with it, I withdrew and I retreated and I shut it out.
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So I'd go through the motions, but I actually wasn't being deliberate and intentional about it.
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And it really hasn't been until these last several weeks where I've realized, okay, that's the
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problem is that rather than addressing it correctly, I disengaged and I retreated because
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I was so overwhelmed, man, you don't have to do that. You can do what you want to do.
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You just can't do everything. And this goes to what you were saying about time.
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I can't give everybody the same amount of time that I would like to. Kip, I'd love to get on the
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phone with everybody who listens to this podcast and have an hour long conversation every Tuesday
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like you and I do. I would love to be able to do that. And I actually tried to do things like
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that because I thought that was the right thing to do. And then I realized I'm going crazy.
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I'm going crazy and I'm not being productive. I'm not being effective. I'm withdrawing from
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situations and I'm failing myself and my family, my business and you who are listening.
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So I've got to say, no, I can't spend all my time with and for other people.
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And I have to be more selective in how I do this.
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When you say withdrawing, are you maybe said another way, just not being fully present.
00:24:12.040
So giving, giving a hundred percent to that in which you're committed to, because you've said
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yes to too many things. So now everything's a little maybe half-assed or you're just not giving
00:24:21.680
your all. And then the quality is being affected. Yeah. Things would fall through the cracks. I was
00:24:26.340
dropping the ball. I was letting people down. Then I was feeling guilty because I couldn't give
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everybody all the attention I wanted to, or all the projects I wanted to attention. And then I wasn't,
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I wasn't getting them done. So now I feel doubly guilty because now I'm not even following through
00:24:42.860
my commitments. And now I'm have confidence issues because I'm not doing out of integrity needs to be
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done. That integrity gap that we were talking about a couple of weeks ago, it's a brutal cycle.
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And it really doesn't stop until you realize that you're in the cycle and that you put your foot
00:25:01.260
down and you prioritize and realize what you're going to say yes to, and what you're going to say
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no to. I had three people email me today. Well, over the weekend, I was getting them to them today
00:25:10.780
because I don't check emails on the weekend. That's a thing. I've got to put those things in
00:25:14.660
place. So I was looking at my emails this morning and I had three podcast requests. Normally I would
00:25:20.000
have said, yeah, let me see. Let me look at my calendar. Okay. You know, Wednesday at four 30.
00:25:24.400
Yeah. Tuesday at two. Okay. And I would sneak them in. And then I was pissed at everybody.
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I was bugged that I was going on this podcast. So I let that person down. I was bugged at myself
00:25:36.640
because I got a boatload of other work to do. And I'm here on this podcast. I don't want to be on.
00:25:41.500
I was pissed that my family wanted me to come to the lake because I was like, well, I'd love to come
00:25:47.600
the lake. Wouldn't that be nice, but I got to do this podcast. So it's like, it's horrible.
00:25:52.080
So I had three this morning and I wrote all of them back. And I simply said, I appreciate the invite.
00:25:57.740
What you're doing sounds incredible, but I've made the decision at this stage not to do podcasts.
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I might change down the road, but the answer is no, but I wish you the best. And I appreciate the
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invite all the best to you. Oh my gosh. Kip, like a weight has been lifted off of my shoulders
00:26:17.000
because I'm saying no. All right. Questions. I hope on Friday, you go into how do you deal with,
00:26:27.240
first off, I can't relate to the whole FOMO thing. It's not a thing for me, but it is hard to pass up
00:26:34.740
opportunities. And I don't know, it's just hard to pass up opportunities where there's this chance to
00:26:41.380
maybe grow in a different area or to contribute. And, and how do you get to a point where you can
00:26:48.520
have confidence around your saying no? I mean, and maybe it's just saying no and how you feel
00:26:54.200
about it. But for me, I can't, for me, I think by saying no, sometimes I then second guess that no
00:27:02.560
and go, man, maybe should I have. And then it's still kind of drags with me a little bit. So I don't
00:27:07.560
know, maybe a request from me, you know, if you, if you dive into that aspect, I get it. I get it.
00:27:12.700
You know, I understand it. I'll, I will say this, something that really helped me in the past several
00:27:18.360
weeks was I have a close personal friend who I really admire on a lot of different fronts,
00:27:24.920
but professionally is an incredible human being and is building it's Pete with origin. He's building
00:27:29.560
something amazing. Absolutely amazing. And I see what he's doing and I'm like, man, I got to do that.
00:27:35.480
I got to be like him, you know, not, not create his, recreate his business, but do what he's doing
00:27:42.320
in my business. I'm like, I want to do this and I want, and I'm inspired and I'm motivated by him.
00:27:47.280
And we went to lunch the other day and he's like, he said something and he said it in passing,
00:27:52.080
probably doesn't think much of it, but he said, man, I know where you're at, but I want to tell
00:27:57.100
you, there's no way in a million years I'd be able to do what I'm doing. If I was in your situation
00:28:01.720
where you are with your family, you've got young kids and everything else. And he says, I look at
00:28:08.440
you and it seems like you figured out a way to walk the never ending change of the, of the line
00:28:15.140
between professional and personal life. He's like, that's awesome. And it was, it was really refreshing
00:28:20.820
to hear somebody that I admire as much as I do say, dude, I couldn't, I couldn't do what you're
00:28:28.180
wanting to do. If I was in your shoes, it's like, okay, got it. You're in a different space.
00:28:35.520
And that, isn't that what we do? We look at what everybody else does and it's like, well, you know,
00:28:40.080
I want to have a business like Kip. I want to start a movement like Ryan. I want to run a,
00:28:44.940
an organization and start a brand new hunt line and be connected with these guys like Pete. I want
00:28:48.660
to have a podcast like Joe Rogan. Like we do these things, but we don't accurately look at
00:28:54.840
the stage or the place they are in life that has got them to that, that position. And are we willing
00:29:01.700
to try that? Right. Yeah. Right. It's so tough though. Right. Because of course it's tough because
00:29:09.700
we want to achieve, right. And we want to push forward and we want to kill it. And it's hard not
00:29:14.960
to, I don't know, want to sacrifice and say yes too many times in an attempt to do that.
00:29:20.420
Well, Kip, here's the interesting thing. The only way that you can have that, where you,
00:29:27.840
where you don't have FOMO, you're not holding yourself to a standard of people that you admire
00:29:32.780
and respect, uh, that you're not aspirational for your own goals and objectives. The only way
00:29:39.140
to have that is for you to be indifferent. Yeah. For you to be a slug. Yeah. Right. It's like,
00:29:48.100
because sometimes don't we wish, like, I'll tell you, I stay up at night. Last night I was doing it
00:29:52.320
and my wheels are turning like, I can hear the gears in my brain just
00:29:58.700
turning about what do I do and how do I grow this and how do I connect and how do I market and how
00:30:04.600
do I this and how do I that? What's my next thing? Hey, the book, what's after that?
00:30:09.060
That's what happens to my brain. And at night, sometimes I'm like, man,
00:30:12.720
I just want to shut this off. The only way for it to be shut off is to be that slug,
00:30:19.340
to be completely indifferent. And I'm not excited about the prospects of that at all.
00:30:26.020
So we take the good with the bad and we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
00:30:29.840
And we realize that the reason we have FOMO, the reason that we're motivated by people,
00:30:34.660
the reason that we put ourselves into competition with others is because we're aspirational,
00:30:41.320
is because we're motivated, is because we're hard chargers. And that's a good thing.
00:30:47.620
We just need to figure out as high achievers, talking to all of us who are listening, how to
00:30:53.260
rein it in. It's like riding a horse. The first time you get on a wild Mustang,
00:30:58.820
he's going to buck you off and you won't be able to control it. But you finally start to break that
00:31:03.540
horse a little bit and finally get a saddle on that thing and put some reins on that horse.
00:31:07.940
And all of a sudden you got some power with you now, but it's controlled power.
00:31:14.860
Got it. So all you guys from Sevier, County, and Parowan, it just all came together once we
00:31:20.180
used the analogy of horse breaking. They're like, oh yeah, got it.
00:31:24.780
That's right. Horse, cattle, probably some sheep farmers out there too. Sheep and goat farmers.
00:31:30.640
Well, you will use better analogies for our Southern Utah brothers.
00:31:35.360
Yeah. Actually, it's funny you say that. I was thinking about a buddy of mine. I think he's,
00:31:40.640
gosh, I think we went to Iraq together. He wrote a great book. He was actually on the Jocko podcast
00:31:45.040
about a month ago. His name's Braxton McCoy. And he's like, he's one of the most manly men that I
00:31:51.240
know. Like when you see him, you're like, yeah, that's the guy. Like that's the picture of a man in
00:31:56.620
the dictionary. And he's just got this awesome mustache and red beard. He looks like a cow. He
00:32:02.680
is a cow. He doesn't look like he is a cowboy. Yeah. I was thinking about him as I was giving
00:32:07.740
that analogy. Cause I think he would appreciate that. So if you're listening, that was for you,
00:32:12.000
Braxton. All right. Our first question, Marty Otto Seneca. I listened to your most recent episode
00:32:21.600
with Ms. Trish and would like some more info on the point you made about undermining each
00:32:26.540
other. That's all it says about undermining each other. Yeah. So maybe it doesn't ask what kind
00:32:33.580
of clarification. Okay. Well, let me see what I can do. So I think what he's referring to,
00:32:37.520
if I remember correctly, is that when we have a way of approaching our children,
00:32:43.800
it's usually our children or it could be anybody else. It's a third party. Yeah.
00:32:48.620
But alignment. Yeah. Right. If we're out of alignment with each other on something and we're
00:32:53.060
talking with a third party, again, friend, family member, colleague, coworker, kids,
00:32:56.600
whatever, we don't undermine each other in front of each other. Yeah. So if, so if my kid came to my
00:33:04.560
wife and said, uh, Hey, can I have a snack? Then I don't go and, and she says, no, then I don't say,
00:33:13.520
Hey hon, it's okay. It's okay. It's fine. You can have a snack. You don't do that.
00:33:19.100
What you do is when they come to you and they'll pit each other against you, they'll pit you guys
00:33:24.820
against each other. They're so good at manipulation. It's like built in. Yeah. They're
00:33:29.800
so good at it. And so then, then little Timmy or Tommy will come to you. Hey dad, can I have a snack?
00:33:36.700
What did mom just say? That's the correct answer or even better. No,
00:33:40.780
not what did mom say? Cause that's kind of a subservient position. Yeah.
00:33:46.920
Like, well, I would like you to brush off. Yeah. So the best answer is no mom and I have told you
00:33:53.820
that there's no snacks an hour before dinner. You know that. So don't even ask. Right. I know that's
00:34:00.480
a silly, small example, but that's the point that we're making. And then what we do is we talk
00:34:04.800
afterwards. So I go back to my wife and I say, Hey hon, if we're outside and we're all hanging out and
00:34:09.640
it's, you know, two or three hours before dinner and the kids want to have an ice cream, like I
00:34:14.200
don't see any problem with that, but it sounds like maybe you have an issue with that. Oh no,
00:34:17.240
I only took issue with it because an hour earlier they had an ice cream, but I didn't know that.
00:34:23.020
So you, so you don't undermine in front of each other. You, you are a unified front and then
00:34:28.460
grievances and problems are taken care of behind the scenes so that you can get on the same page and
00:34:35.260
realize where each other are coming from. I got a good example of this.
00:34:39.460
It's a little bit more complex and you can see certain angles. So we have some late property.
00:34:46.000
I have two, I call them teenage boys. Unfortunately, they're more boys than men, but 20 and 18.
00:34:55.220
And they, they ask mom, Hey mom, can we go down to the property and take the jet skis out and kind
00:35:01.020
of chill out down there. And she makes arrangements and, you know, not arrangements, but make some,
00:35:07.820
set some expectations in regards to if that's allowed or whatnot. And, and she gives them,
00:35:15.280
you know, those expectations and clarity around what's acceptable and not acceptable.
00:35:20.960
I, this, she gives me an update and I disagree with some of the expectations.
00:35:25.380
Now at first her tendency was like, well, fine. Like, why don't you just tell the boys opposite
00:35:32.940
them? Right. Like call them up and go, Hey, uh, you know, it's not happening, you know, because now
00:35:37.920
that's, that's me undermining her. Right. I'll, I, let me swoop in and destroy what mom said,
00:35:47.840
And then you're the dick. Yeah. And then I'm the dick or the flip side is,
00:35:52.640
so that's one way that I could undermine, or there could be undermining. The other way there
00:35:57.440
could be, is then we talk, get proper alignment. And then she reaches out to them and goes, Oh,
00:36:04.700
talk to your dad and Nope, you can't do that. And now she just undermined me.
00:36:10.080
Right. Right. Because of our disagreement. And so it, it's really unified front is really what I
00:36:17.960
think about. You can have disagreement. You can see things differently, but that unified front is
00:36:22.380
so critical. And even a silly thing, like, Hey, Hey, Ian, you want to be able to go? I'm okay with it,
00:36:29.540
but ask your mom. There's a little bit of undermining, even in that status where it's like, Hey,
00:36:34.920
I'm cool. I'm on your side. Mom might be the asshole though. So ask her. I mean,
00:36:39.940
literally like, those are the things that we want to be very careful about. And it's like, Hey,
00:36:45.760
let me think about it. Let me talk to mom, make sure that we're in alignment. And while I'll get
00:36:50.760
back to you, there's a really proper way to honoring her and honoring your relationship,
00:36:56.540
even in those small instances. And, and this is the reason why it's so important to have constant
00:37:04.240
communication with your wife. Now you might say to me, well, Ryan, my wife and I talk all the time.
00:37:09.280
Like when my, we talk at night at dinner and we talk about like the kid's day. And like,
00:37:15.160
if she has a question about something or we need to help, you know, she needs help with the budget
00:37:19.520
or I do, we talk, it's like, that's not what I'm referring to. I'm not talking about the day-to-day
00:37:25.260
minutiae bullshit that yes, you should definitely talk about that stuff. I'm talking about deliberate
00:37:31.340
and intentional carved out time for more serious family issues. So that when there is a request
00:37:39.720
like this, and she says, Hey, hon, the boys wanted to go. And I told them, and now I'm kind of thinking
00:37:44.880
about it and I probably shouldn't have what, what, what should we do next time? Or what, what do you
00:37:49.860
think about that? Right. You, but you can't do that if you don't have time carved out in the day for
00:37:54.280
it because your day is already maxed out. So you've got to carve out time to do that, to,
00:37:59.540
to communicate. There's another problem. Actually, if you're not doing that, if you don't have
00:38:04.440
effective communication with her, there's a problem here with your, with your scenario.
00:38:08.520
Let's say she came to you and said, Hey, I think it's okay. The boys go,
00:38:12.940
here's the conditions I gave them. And you're like, well, no, they, here's the,
00:38:17.120
here's the other conditions. Here's the risk you could run. Now you're a bully to your wife.
00:38:24.280
Yeah. And she sees that, or at least she experiences it, whether it's consciously or
00:38:30.040
subconsciously. Well, how come I don't get to say it's always Kip's way. He's what does he think?
00:38:34.960
He just runs everything. And yeah, based on my belief, let me, I'll say like this, based on my
00:38:41.660
belief, you are the patriarch of the home. So yes, in a way my, what I say goes like, that's the dynamic
00:38:49.460
of our home. I think that's the proper way to set up a family structure, but that's not to say that
00:38:55.420
I'm dismissive of my wife's perspective and opinion and feedback and concern. I care about
00:39:03.100
those things and I want to make sure that we're on the same page. So I better communicate to her
00:39:07.180
why it's so important that we do it this way, or you know what, here's something you could do.
00:39:12.580
Try this. Your wife makes a decision and she makes a good decision instead of going in and saying,
00:39:21.480
well, you know, I would do this and that. And just say, hon, that was awesome. And I agree with
00:39:25.900
all of that. That was so great. Period. You don't need to beat her up if there's nothing to beat her
00:39:32.480
up about, but some of us will. I've done it. We're all guilty of it. Totally. Well, even in my
00:39:37.440
circumstance, you know, in retrospect, I'm looking at the circumstance and I, it was a bitch session,
00:39:43.480
right? It was like, oh man, well, how about these things and blah, blah, blah. Well, what are you
00:39:48.060
suggesting? Like, what am I suggesting if not undermine her and re-communicate and crush the
00:39:53.960
plans and the expectations that were already set? However, if I communicated in a way of, hey, here's
00:40:00.140
some concern for next time, something to consider for next time, because my concern is, is blah, blah,
00:40:05.680
blah, blah. Knowing that it's already been communicated. I don't want to undermine what
00:40:09.800
we've done. I don't want to, you know what I mean? Disrupt what was already communicated and agreed
00:40:14.600
upon. But next time they go, maybe a few things to consider because here's my concerns. Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:22.880
Effective communication goes a long ways. All right. What else we got?
00:40:26.260
All right. Rudy Vander Viver. Rudy Vander Viver. I promise that's the name. What is the best way we can
00:40:32.600
create a space of open communication with either our family, wife, business, friends, and et cetera?
00:40:38.540
How do you help those that struggle with communication be more open to discussion and ideas
00:40:42.800
to help solve situations, come to resolutions, and, and, or make plans to create better outcomes?
00:40:49.720
I feel like we've answered this question in a lot of ways. So here's what I'm going to say. I'm
00:40:53.340
going to give you something different that I'm not sure I've really ever harped on. And it's very,
00:40:58.220
very important because yeah, you can carve out time and you can tell her you want to talk. You can do
00:41:03.620
all those things and you know, those things. Yeah. The tactics of it. Yeah. Yes. Here's what you need
00:41:08.620
to know. The way that you respond when somebody does something that you want them to do is going to
00:41:17.360
determine whether or not they do it again or do something different. Totally. So let's say your wife
00:41:24.180
comes to you. And she's like, ah, after dinner, we put the kids down, we go to bed and we, after
00:41:31.300
dinner, she's like, ah, today was such a long day. Like one of the kids threw up and the other one
00:41:36.620
got in a fight at school. And then little Timmy got a D on his report card and man, it was just hard.
00:41:42.480
And then my mom called and she's struggling and she misses us. And like, like she just unloads on you.
00:41:48.420
And you're like, hon, hon, hon, just, I can't, I'm busy. Like it's been a long day at work for me
00:41:55.620
too. And I just, I can't, he like, I don't care about little Timmy's poopy diaper. I don't care
00:42:01.860
about what your mom's upset about. Okay. I just can't do this right now. And then two days later
00:42:07.160
you go to her and you're like, hon, I'd really like to work on our communication. I'd like to carve
00:42:12.500
out time for communication. What's, what's going on? Nothing. Well, how come you never talked to me?
00:42:19.660
It's funny. Cause we know what it's like. Cause we've all done it. So the answer to creating and
00:42:25.640
fostering an environment of effective communication is when somebody actually communicates with you,
00:42:31.920
you handle it in a positive way. So when your wife says, Hey, little Timmy had a crappy diaper
00:42:39.280
and then he puked and this person, this and that, and you're like, I really don't want to hear about
00:42:42.740
this. You don't say that you say, Oh man, that does sound like a tough day. I'm sorry. Is there
00:42:50.040
anything I can do to help? No, I just wanted to let you know. Thank you. It's important. Your,
00:42:55.000
your day is important to me. That must be hard. I don't know how you do it. Cause I would go nuts
00:42:59.380
in that situation, man. She's going to be, she's going to share it with you next time, right? She's
00:43:06.440
going to open up. And also when you want to talk with her about something she doesn't want to hear
00:43:12.660
about, there's all sorts of things. I talked to my wife about jujitsu. Sometimes I'm like, Hey,
00:43:17.720
let me show you this move I learned. And so we go on the front room. She doesn't want to do that.
00:43:22.820
She doesn't care or even about my business. Hey hon, like this is cool. And like, like check out
00:43:27.680
this technology. She cares because she knows I care about the things. And sometimes I make sacrifices.
00:43:34.380
And so she's going to do the same. That's the only way is the way that you behave in moments of
00:43:43.420
communication will dictate how people will communicate with you moving forward.
00:43:49.220
I think for so much of this has to do with just us having our stuff together, like having our shit
00:43:56.700
together, right? Because the time that it's hardest to listen to is when we're feeling sorry for
00:44:02.620
ourselves. When, when I want to be hurt, I don't want to help. I'm too busy. Like, or I'm running
00:44:08.080
my own story. So I, I'm incapable of emotionally caring for another because I want that to be done
00:44:16.200
for me. Yeah. And it's just really stresses the importance of just getting your stuff together so
00:44:22.620
we can be in a position to serve better and not be a reactionary to what, what occurs.
00:44:28.560
One of the things that I'm really good at is when my wife has a grievance of some sort and vocalizes
00:44:37.980
that to me, I'm really good at making it her fault. I'm not saying that as a redeeming quality guys.
00:44:50.240
Yeah. But I acknowledge that about myself. She's like, Hey, you've been this and this and this. Well,
00:44:55.140
the reason is, is because the house is messy or the reason is, is because the kids are just about,
00:45:02.380
they don't even know when to come in. You can't even keep control of them during the day.
00:45:06.320
Yeah. That's something I personally need to work on is just saying, Oh, you know what? Yeah. I can
00:45:12.780
see that. I need to come up with some systems for boundaries in the office or taking care of the
00:45:17.960
space or something, but there's a different, I know there's a different way to handle that. I just want
00:45:21.920
to acknowledge that because like, I'm not, I'm not telling you guys this because I have it figured
00:45:27.060
out. I'm actually going to go back and listen and be like, Oh yeah, that's a good idea. I didn't need
00:45:30.200
to do that. Yeah. All these, all these scenarios are just running through my head of like, Oh yeah,
00:45:36.260
I don't handle that very well. Mine is way more, more critical. I, I, I will complain about how she's
00:45:43.560
communicating. So I'm open to tip, but Oh honey, the way you should say that is this way. Right.
00:45:50.840
Oh, that's, that's gotta be lovely. Yeah. You're like, it's not always, that's not true. What you
00:45:57.980
should say is I feel like not, I am, you know, I'm like, which does not help the case at all.
00:46:05.520
The best thing to do is tell her to calm down. That's always the best option.
00:46:10.820
Yeah. One, one more thing that I do. You need to go for a walk. You need to go for a walk.
00:46:16.420
You're too emotional. Yeah. Another thing that I do, I think it's important. We acknowledge how
00:46:23.340
crappy we are at this is I have a really short temper and, and I have even more so, cause again,
00:46:30.780
this stems from what I was telling you guys about earlier. Stress too much. Stress too much. Yeah.
00:46:35.140
So rather than go from zero to, you know, one or two and deal with something that needs to be dealt
00:46:40.580
with, I go from zero to 10. And then I I'm actually pretty good. And I'm saying this with sincerity,
00:46:48.360
I am pretty good at recognizing where I went wrong quickly and then trying to fix it. I'm actually
00:46:56.460
pretty good at that. So one thing I'll do is I'll go from zero to 10 and blow up and piss
00:47:02.140
everybody off and make everybody mad and rile them all up. And then I'll go to my wife and I'll say,
00:47:06.880
Hey, you know what? I handled that situation wrong. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have done that.
00:47:11.140
Which is pulling that off within a 20, like definitely a 24 hour window, usually even just
00:47:17.860
several hours like that. It's usually just like a couple hours. I'm like, Oh crap. Yep. There you go.
00:47:24.620
Dummy. You did it again, you know, and then you have to go fix it. And that, so here's,
00:47:29.020
here's what, because, okay. Because that's my personality of like zero to a hundred and then
00:47:35.160
a hundred back down to zero very quickly because I do that. When I go to my wife and I say, Hey,
00:47:41.700
you know what? I handled that incorrectly. I yelled at you. I yelled at the kids. I made
00:47:44.580
everybody feel bad. I'm really sorry about that. She doesn't immediately forgive me. And I'm like,
00:47:49.180
what's your problem? I said, sorry. And now you're going to be short with me all day.
00:47:56.180
Hey, like, where are you? These are things I need to work on. Like we, I'm just, you guys are
00:48:01.860
laughing. I know you are because y'all do the same thing. We're all the same. We're a little bit
00:48:08.000
different, but we're all the same. These are things all of us can work on. Yeah. You're 24 hours. I'm
00:48:14.100
about 24 days is kind of what I'm working on. Really? No, not that bad, but I have a hard time
00:48:22.360
because what, once again, it's busy and I'll be like, all right, I need to have that communication.
00:48:29.460
But by then it's nine, it's 10. I'm like, I want to go to bed. I don't want to do this before we go
00:48:35.160
to bed. Cause it gets drawn out and then it will be up late and I'll blow it off. Yeah. Out of
00:48:41.460
convenience. That's my, yeah. Like I know I should have those conversations. I don't have them as fast
00:48:49.020
as I should. Yeah. Yeah. My personality tends to be just by nature. I'm a bit of a worrier.
00:48:56.720
And so when things are wrong, I worry about them and I try to fix them like fast. Cause I want to
00:49:04.960
get it resolved, whether it's a business thing or a relationship thing or whatever. I'm like, Hey,
00:49:10.360
that, that was an issue. That was a problem. Now I want to resolve it fast so I can drive on. I can
00:49:13.980
get past it and move on with it. And I know that about my personality is, is just, I worry and I
00:49:21.600
fret over those things. And so I, I want to bring it up. Like, I don't want to dwell on something
00:49:26.360
longer than it needs to be dwelt, dwelt upon. If that's the right way to say it. And, and I just
00:49:32.800
want to fix it so then we can put it behind us and then move on. And I know we'll never move on.
00:49:38.260
At least I won't because I'm a worrier. I'll never move on until I check this thing off the box.
00:49:44.700
Yeah. And that makes sense. Why you're kind of like Trish, I resolved it. Let's, let's move on.
00:49:49.640
Right. Like let's be happy now. Don't keep this on my plate because I wanted to get it off.
00:49:54.620
Yep. Exactly. I guess the point, another point here guys is to know yourself too. Like no,
00:50:00.800
no, how you respond, no, where you step in it, no, how you are good at resolving things. Cause
00:50:06.040
being a worrier and wanting to resolve things, that's not a bad trait,
00:50:11.200
but if it conflicts with how somebody else might approach it, then it becomes not something positive.
00:50:22.880
Jake opinion. I go to a men's ministry, uh, Saturday mornings. That is exactly how you've
00:50:29.720
described church men's groups. Feminized. Since I found order of man, you've helped me change my
00:50:35.780
mentality. And I find more often than not, I'm disappointed with men's ministries.
00:50:40.740
What would you, what would be your approach to a men's group that is just, isn't checking your boxes?
00:50:48.520
Well, I think, I think we first have an obligation to try to fix our situation in our environment.
00:50:54.680
So a lot of times people would just withdraw immediately. Like I'm out, man. What if you
00:50:59.560
could have been the guy, all of those people needed? Not only, not only that, it represents a
00:51:04.800
tremendous opportunity for you to make something of yourself, right? Like think about at work.
00:51:13.080
You see a problem at work and you're like, they don't pay me for this. I'm out of here.
00:51:19.400
Okay. That's what most men would do. They don't pay me enough for this bullshit. I'm out.
00:51:23.840
Well, what if you just waited a second and try to figure out what the problem is. And then you went
00:51:28.920
to your boss and you're like, Hey boss, the company I was with before actually had this exact same deal.
00:51:34.340
And I shared with them a 10 point plan on how to resolve it. And within 60 days, we were getting
00:51:39.160
more money. We were selling bigger contracts. Receivables went, went, or the, I don't even know
00:51:45.720
if they're called receivables or collection or whatever went down. And, and I would love to share
00:51:50.580
that plan with you if you're interested. And maybe your boss says, Oh, no, we're good. Okay.
00:51:55.280
Well, no, you tried, you know, that's what men do. We try to make ourselves a resource and a value
00:52:00.420
add to the environment. Or he might say, actually, I am pretty interested in that. And even better,
00:52:05.780
he might say, well, Hey, you know, Ryan seems like it worked. Why don't you, would you be interested
00:52:10.540
in implementing that? Now I can't give you a raise. I can't give you a promotion or anything like
00:52:15.260
that, but man, would you be willing to head that up? Like, why do we say no? I know why we do.
00:52:20.580
They don't pay me. That's not my job description. Oh, if you want me to do it,
00:52:24.120
you got to pay me more, but why don't you figure it out? And maybe you actually fixing the problem.
00:52:28.840
A boss thinks, Whoa, Ryan just solved that problem in six months. We've been dealing with
00:52:34.240
that for six years. Maybe I had to look at this guy a little bit closer. Now, maybe you do it and
00:52:40.200
nothing ever comes of it. And that happens over and over again. And at some point, yes, you're being
00:52:44.180
abused. Yes. Yeah. But at least give yourself a fighting chance. Okay. So now to go back to church.
00:52:50.580
Same thing. Let's say you love your church congregation, your pastor, your preacher,
00:52:54.760
your whoever is a phenomenal human being. You love their sermons. You love what he has to say.
00:52:59.000
He's got balls and you can stand up against crazy cultural things, but the men's group just sucks.
00:53:07.300
Fix it. That's the first thing you do. You don't retreat. The first thing you do is you try to fix it.
00:53:13.020
And here's what I would do. And I've talked about it before. I'd go to whoever heads it up.
00:53:16.780
And I'd say, Hey, you know, I really like you guys. I would really want to make sure that
00:53:22.440
selfishly that I'm served by being here, but also I think I really want you and the guys to be served.
00:53:27.920
And I think there's some really cool things we did at my previous congregation. That would be a lot of
00:53:31.860
fun here. I actually have access to a shooting range and I would like to invite all the men to
00:53:38.100
the shooting range on, uh, on Wednesday evening at six o'clock on, on me. You guys just, if you have
00:53:44.760
a gun, cool. If not, I'll take care of it. You know, everybody pitching 20 bucks will buy 20 bucks.
00:53:49.820
Won't buy much ammo anymore, but you know what I'm saying?
00:53:54.760
Yeah. Everyone shoots one shot shoots once, not as in one turn, just literally one squeeze of the
00:54:00.340
trigger, but you, but you, you set it up and then they get there and you're like, Hey, you talk to
00:54:08.040
the guy in charge. If you're in charge, Kip, I'd say, Kip can't, here's what I'm thinking for the
00:54:11.900
evening, but I'm going to defer to you. You just let me know. Um, I would like to, when we get to
00:54:15.980
the range, I would like to open it with a prayer. Cause I think it's important that we pray. This is a,
00:54:21.740
this is a spiritual congregation. Uh, and then I would like to share a scripture reference on
00:54:27.340
the importance of being able to defend yourself and take care of the people that you love.
00:54:32.160
And then we will shoot and then we'll, and I'll just close it out with a prayer at the end of the
00:54:37.180
evening. Is that cool with you? He's going to love that. He doesn't have to do anything.
00:54:43.840
You make him look like a rockstar. You play to his vanity, which, you know, he's in charge.
00:54:48.380
And by the way, when you give the prayer, you say, Hey, I just want to first and foremost,
00:54:52.000
thank Kip for helping me organize this and getting you guys. I'm telling you what we think
00:54:59.580
it's, it's true. It's like, well, he shouldn't be like, this is church. Well, he is. So get over
00:55:04.200
it. Hey, I just want to thank Kip. I don't know if you guys know how much Kip cares about you guys.
00:55:09.420
Like he genuinely loves you guys. He wants to serve. He wants you to win. And he was gracious
00:55:14.100
enough to take out one of your guys's activities. And I wanted to share something with you that I love
00:55:19.680
and that I think would be valuable for all of us. So first and foremost, Kip, thank you for doing
00:55:23.720
this. Let's open it up with a prayer. Man, that's how you do it. You go and you do activities men want
00:55:30.440
to do, but you have to have a spiritual undertone, which is the prayer and the scripture that ties
00:55:36.020
into the message, but go to jujitsu, go train, go serve, go run a marathon, go to the shooting range,
00:55:43.920
do a golf outing. There's do a barbecue. Hey guys, family barbecue tonight. And
00:55:49.060
have like a chili cook all the guys, all the guys in the congregation, you make your best chili and
00:55:56.200
we're going to have a blind taste test. And we're going to dub the winner, you know, the best chili
00:55:59.720
in this congregation. It's, it's not hard stuff. You just have to assert yourself and go out of your
00:56:06.560
way. And I'm telling you with a hundred percent certainty, the guy who's leading your men's group
00:56:13.340
in your church right now with 100% certainty. If you do it, the way we're telling you to do it,
00:56:19.480
we'll be ecstatic about what you're doing. He's not going to reject that. If he does,
00:56:26.580
I would take some issue with the congregation. Cause that's a sign of maybe some, some disease
00:56:32.300
within the, within the, the group. Yeah. Listening to you, I think I started constantly,
00:56:41.160
what is it that we get hung up on? And I think there's huge power in getting clarity and commitment
00:56:49.640
to the strategic outcome or the desired outcome and intent. So you can connect with it and realize,
00:56:57.940
okay, wait, this, this brother that's running this men's group, ultimately, what is he trying
00:57:03.540
to achieve? We're trying to bring these guys together. We're trying to create strong community
00:57:07.620
so we can uplift each other. Awesome. Like I can get behind that. Now, once I'm connected to that,
00:57:13.680
I can go, okay, well, Ryan is just going about it. Maybe a little different and wrong.
00:57:19.900
And, and, and, and now I'm my judgment on you as an individual and how it's being approached
00:57:25.720
kind of goes out the window a little bit. And I think that, oh, okay. It's just not effective.
00:57:31.320
And, but I understand that you and I are both aligned with what we're trying to accomplish.
00:57:37.000
And then it's easier to emotionally get behind different approaches and strategies to ultimately
00:57:43.900
reach that outcome. Far too often. I think we get wrapped up in the how, and it's like, oh,
00:57:48.440
they're wrong. They're wrong. They're wrong. Guess what? You're probably both fully aligned
00:57:52.780
with the desired outcome. How you're getting there is the only difference. And, and that kind of gives
00:57:59.060
us the, I don't know what I'm looking for, like the discipline and the motivation to stay committed
00:58:04.940
to the cause of change versus just bailing. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great point. I love it.
00:58:12.440
Well, Kip, why don't we take one more and then we'll wrap things up for the day.
00:58:15.380
Okay. Sounds good. Well, geez, let me find a good one really quick. Cause we have three more. We,
00:58:21.180
we probably talked a little, I was worried that we wouldn't have enough questions today.
00:58:24.600
Well, we, we talked about a lot of, a lot of other things. I've just got a busy day. I've got a,
00:58:29.220
well, I'm going to be doing more reading of my book today. So you guys need to know that is that
00:58:33.680
when the book, the masculinity manifesto comes out, it will be available on audible as well.
00:58:38.400
And then I've got an electrician who just got here. I need to go talk with him in about 10 minutes
00:58:42.620
because he's wiring the big, huge industrial fans in the barn to cool us off in there. So.
00:58:50.080
Exciting time. So we don't slide off the third floor.
00:58:54.600
Yeah. No, actually the fans will be below the third deck. So I'll have to buy two more chopped.
00:59:00.420
Yeah. So it drops you into the hole and you got to shoot the gap without getting diced.
00:59:04.780
No, then we'll buy two more and we'll put them up on the top deck. It's going to be amazing.
00:59:08.440
All right. Jay Denmark, his questions around just toxic people. What is the best way to deal with
00:59:14.080
toxic people? How to tell the difference between someone joking and being disrespectful.
00:59:19.380
Where's that line? I always see negative. I always see negativity towards others,
00:59:25.260
especially my coworkers picking on one of my younger coworkers who is 18. I'm not sure whether
00:59:30.360
to step in and say something or try to lead by influence. I'm just not sure.
00:59:36.520
No, I think I would step in and say something because Kip, let's say you're, you're being that
00:59:42.120
person of the 18 year old when appropriate. I probably wouldn't tell a boss this because
00:59:47.080
it's not really your appropriate place to do that. But I would befriend the 18 year old in that case.
00:59:52.420
I'd be like, Hey man, like I know sometimes it can be challenging. It's all new stuff. And there's
00:59:57.260
a lot of guys here, a lot of, you know, a lot of whatever going around. Like, don't, don't talk
01:00:02.400
about your boss by the way. Don't do that. But Hey, look, I know how hard it is. It's a stressful
01:00:06.320
environment. I get it. So befriend that person. But if you're in the position, I'd say,
01:00:10.140
Hey Kip, man, quietly, privately. Hey Kip, can I share something with you? Yeah. Hey,
01:00:18.360
I think you're joking because I know you, we've, we've got a good friendship and, and you kind of
01:00:22.940
have a sarcastic personality. But, but Bill, you get on him and I don't think you know how it affects
01:00:32.200
him because he's actually having a hard time working here because he's not reading your sarcasm
01:00:38.900
and sarcasm. He thinks you're being a jerk. I don't think you are. I think you mean, well,
01:00:43.400
I think the reason you joke with him is because he's part of the team and that's what we do as men.
01:00:49.940
Right. But I, I just do what it, with it, what you want. I just wanted to bring it to your attention
01:00:55.700
because I want to have a good work environment. And I know you do too. And we want to make this guy
01:01:00.680
feel welcome because he's a kick-ass employee. So just something to be aware of. And that's a great
01:01:06.360
non-threatening way just to bring it up the first time. Totally. Totally.
01:01:11.220
So I don't think sarcastic people are, I really don't think they're generally assholes. I think
01:01:18.740
that they probably lacks, not all, not all sarcastic people, but a lot of them lack some confidence and
01:01:25.480
there might be some integrity issues there and they hide it by being snarky and sarcastic.
01:01:31.520
And I don't even think subconsciously they're trying to elevate themselves above people.
01:01:37.760
I think they're trying to elevate themselves against who they know they are.
01:01:44.620
Like they're not trying to prove that they're better than you. They're trying to prove that
01:01:49.720
they're better than they actually are themselves. And the way to do it is by making snarky comments
01:01:57.200
that could be misinterpreted very easily as being rude or negative. But if you do that and then in
01:02:04.900
addition, befriend the 18-year-old, even if that doesn't work out in that environment, that's manly
01:02:11.220
to me. That's befriending the kid and then talking with the peer. That's just the right, when you say,
01:02:19.700
hey, don't worry about all this stuff. Well, like Marcus really, waste no more time arguing what a man
01:02:23.800
should do or will be, be one. That's what a man is. That's what a man would do.
01:02:30.360
The secret sauce that you said that I think is profound is you didn't say you are being this way
01:02:36.200
or it seems as though, or you might consider that way allowed the boss to come to that conclusion on
01:02:44.420
your own. And you're just sharing what you're seeing and sharing it as not as a judgment, but
01:02:51.760
but just an awareness or a thought that you might have. And that's non-threatening. You take that same
01:02:58.500
exact conversation and say, hey, want to give you a heads up. When you joke around with Tommy,
01:03:03.880
do you're being a complete ass. And he's pissed off when you're treating that way.
01:03:08.460
One, that's not even true. That's your interpretation of it anyway. And he's going
01:03:14.360
to take that front and be highly defensive towards that type of statement versus you just sharing
01:03:19.600
what you're observing. Well, think about each of those little role plays that we did. When
01:03:25.420
you go and talk with Tommy, you're like, hey man, I know it can be a rough environment. I work here too.
01:03:31.360
I know it can be challenging. It's very stressful, but I just want you to know you're doing a great job.
01:03:35.120
I really appreciate working with you. What are you doing? You're putting yourself on the same team.
01:03:41.240
Now you're on his team. That's what you want with other people. We're on the same team. Hey man,
01:03:46.020
we're on the same team. Then when you go to the peer or whoever, and you say, hey, I don't know if
01:03:51.740
you understand. I know you want a great work environment. So do I. We all want to be here and
01:03:56.260
work in a great environment. And I don't know if you know, but sometimes Tommy interprets that as
01:04:02.040
negativity, I don't think you're being that way. I just think it's, it's easy for him to read it
01:04:06.680
that way. But man, like you, I want to create a winning environment too. What did I just do?
01:04:12.180
We're on the same team. You're on my team. I'm on your team. Just like if I was on a football team
01:04:17.900
and I'd be like, hey, Kip, man, I've noticed that, uh, that one particular play that block is seems to
01:04:24.860
be a challenge. Um, it's, it's hard for you to hit that block, but it's crucial because we want the
01:04:31.040
team to win. Am I missing something? Like, is there some confusion about it or, uh, you know,
01:04:36.900
what I would say that to a teammate on a football field? Cause I want to win. And so does he, by the
01:04:43.300
way, even the guy that's missing the block wants to win. Of course he does. Yeah. You got to put
01:04:48.040
yourself on the same team, but what was the first part of that question? Best way to deal with toxic
01:04:52.680
people, toxic people. Yeah. Difference between joking and being disrespectful. So this goes back to what I
01:04:59.220
was saying about from me going from zero to 10, like don't go from zero to this person's a toxic,
01:05:05.880
toxic, horrible human being just as escalated. So, okay. Let's just say, Hey, so zero is,
01:05:15.460
is he's a decent person, right? Like everybody starts at zero in my book. You're all a zero.
01:05:20.420
You're all decent people unless you prove otherwise. And then you start getting into the negatives.
01:05:24.160
And then if you do above and beyond, I think you're exceptional, not just decent. Now you're
01:05:27.980
exceptional. So everybody starts a decent with me. Okay. And then if you prove some things,
01:05:34.620
I don't go from decent to a fricking asshole. I go from decent to he's not a great communicator.
01:05:41.660
Still decent. He's not a great communicator. Then I might go from decent to not a great communicator
01:05:48.000
to man, that guy's probably really hurting. He's probably got some baggage. Like he's, he, he probably,
01:05:56.740
well, either, I think one of two things, either was abused as a kid or was dropped on his head as a
01:06:01.200
kid, but not, not, I don't think he's a horrible human being yet. And I just work up that chain.
01:06:09.460
And then I address it as appropriate based on where he is on that, on that tier. And at some point,
01:06:15.540
yeah, you're going to hit asshole status and we're going to have an asshole reaction,
01:06:21.140
but everything else has to have had happened prior to that event. And I don't even think you'll get to
01:06:27.760
that event. I think either the behavior will change or you'll leave, which is also appropriate. If
01:06:33.660
you're in that environment and everybody's at this 10 up here, if you've done, like we talked about on
01:06:39.840
the previous question, if you've done everything you can as a man and you've tried to affect change,
01:06:44.080
not happening, you probably ought to remove yourself from the environment, which is why it's
01:06:48.600
so important to do the other things that we talk about, which is to make yourself valuable,
01:06:52.880
to get yourself financially free, to get yourself sovereign, to learn how to network really well.
01:06:58.980
So if you ever find yourself in one of those environments, you have what I call a walkaway fund,
01:07:04.920
or some people call an FU fund, where if I was ever in that situation and Kip, you were a real jerk,
01:07:11.340
I could say, Hey, thanks. I'm out of here. Well, when's your last day? Yesterday. Because we've
01:07:17.600
had these conversations over and over and over again, and I'm not going to be here and be treated
01:07:23.220
this way and work in this kind of environment. I wish you the best. I hope something changes,
01:07:27.480
but I'm out. And there's nothing you can hold over my head to say, well, well, you know,
01:07:32.760
I couldn't get your paycheck next week. That's okay. I'm trying not to get all hyped up here.
01:07:37.680
That's okay. I got $500,000 in the bank. I don't need, it would be nice. I don't need the $4,000
01:07:44.820
paycheck you owe me. I'm going to be okay. And $4,000 ain't worth my self-respect. Bye.
01:07:52.020
But that's way down the line, way down the line. So get everything in order before you get to that
01:07:56.620
point. I have to say this one thing, because I think people say that they think this all the time.
01:08:01.880
You said, I think we can paraphrase that in the conversation today, that we should look to the
01:08:08.560
opportunity to impact and change and not just be so quick to bell out. And I think when it comes to
01:08:13.980
relationships, that opportunity to have change occur and impact is found in relationship,
01:08:21.800
not the judgment. So if I'm struggling with you, it can't be superficial, right? If I want to cause
01:08:29.640
changing you, I need to establish a relationship. I need to understand you. What makes him tick?
01:08:35.040
Why does he come across so abrasive or aggressive and literally get to know you? If it's always
01:08:45.480
superficial, I'm never in a position of influence and thus there's never going to be change.
01:08:51.760
And now it requires some effort and you'll have to have some balance in regards to how much you need
01:08:57.660
to invest in those relationships. But that change is found in establishing of a relationship,
01:09:02.680
which ultimately will give you empathy and understanding. Judgment is just superficial
01:09:07.520
and you'll never get to the root of anything. And no one's going to listen to you if you don't have
01:09:12.560
an established relationship of some sort. They will, as long as you're superior in some way in the
01:09:21.060
hierarchy to them. But that's not a great way to build commitment. I think I talked about it last
01:09:28.520
week. You'll get compliance with people. I can get people to comply. I want people to be committed
01:09:37.000
to it. And that requires what you're saying, the relationship.
01:09:39.840
Totally. Cool. All right, brother. Let's wrap it up. Let's call it a day.
01:09:44.660
Yeah. So, I mean, really call to action is join us, band with us, be part of our community. If you
01:09:52.140
haven't already, join the Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash order of man
01:09:57.300
and connect with Mr. Mickler on the socials, Instagram, and Twitter at Ryan Mickler. And as
01:10:02.940
always, you can get your order of man swag from the store. That's store.orderofman.com.
01:10:07.720
Excellent. All right, you guys. Great questions. We monopolized a bit of the time early on and
01:10:13.140
didn't get to your questions. So, we'll save the few that we didn't get to for next week. Appreciate
01:10:17.420
it all. And we'll catch you on Friday. Remember, I'm doing that Friday field notes about getting
01:10:23.120
off track and ways that I've got back on track. So, make sure you're subscribed. All right, guys.
01:10:27.740
We'll see you on Friday. Until then, go out there, take action, and become the man you are meant to be.
01:10:32.320
Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life
01:10:36.820
and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the Order at orderofman.com.