Order of Man - DAN CRENSHAW ｜ Ignorance and Outrage are the Enemy

00:00:00.220 Needless to say, there has been a tremendous amount of turmoil and division in America over the past several years.

00:00:06.580 Now, this isn't new in the history of the United States, but it seems to me that we as citizens are more divided than we've ever been on a myriad of issues from foreign policy to COVID restrictions and mandates to gun legislation and health care and everywhere in between.

00:00:22.620 And my guest today has a lot to say about these issues and more, and not ironically, I'm sure people will be very divided on this conversation as well.

00:00:32.500 His name is Representative Dan Crenshaw, a former Navy SEAL and representative for the state of Texas.

00:00:38.180 Today, we discussed the new COVID measures announced by President Biden last week, foreign affairs and the threat of terrorism, including everything happening in Afghanistan right now.

00:00:48.840 Why our emotional responses to these issues are getting us into trouble and putting us in danger and why we all need to be more informed rather than ignorant on the most pressing issues of today.

00:01:00.400 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:01:05.880 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time you are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:01:15.120 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become at the end of the day.

00:01:20.860 And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:25.220 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler. I am the host and the founder of this podcast and the Order of Man movement.

00:01:31.780 Welcome here and welcome back. I'm sitting in an Airbnb in Houston, Texas, because I had a chance to come down here and interview Dan Crenshaw.

00:01:39.740 So we're going to get into that in just a minute. If you're new to the podcast, this is a show, a podcast dedicated to giving you the tools and conversations and resources that you need to step up more fully as a man inside the walls of your home, inside your business, in the community that you live and every other facet of life.

00:02:01.080 So we've got a great one lined up. We are on a roll. We've got Ben Shapiro coming out soon. Of course, this one with Dan Crenshaw. We've got Jesse Itzler, Jason Wilson.

00:02:11.220 We have incredible, incredible men coming on the podcast very, very soon. So make sure you subscribe, leave a rating and review. That goes a long way in bumping up the visibility of the show.

00:02:21.720 Share it, tag me, whatever you can do to build up this grassroots movement of reclaiming and restoring masculinity.

00:02:27.120 Before I get into the conversation, let me just mention my friends and show sponsors over at Origin, Maine.

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00:03:19.680 All right, guys, let me introduce you to Dan. He's a former Navy SEAL.

00:03:23.340 He's got 10 years of service in the teams and is currently a house representative for the state of Texas.

00:03:29.960 Now, he's also the author of Fortitude, American Resilience in the Era of Outrage.

00:03:34.180 And he has become a very visible and outspoken spokesman on some of the most pressing issues facing America today.

00:03:42.500 Now, if you're not already doing so, I would highly, highly suggest following him on social media because he does a pretty good job breaking down policy and politics and video segments to inform the country.

00:03:54.240 Gentlemen, this is a great conversation. And what Dan advocates for reasonable, informed dialogue is something that is much needed in society.

00:04:04.520 Enjoy. Dan, thanks for joining me, man. I know we've been trying to make this work for, what, a month and a half or maybe a little longer with your schedule.

00:04:12.420 Things are pretty wild. Yeah, especially the last month and a half.

00:04:15.680 Especially the last 24 hours, I would say.

00:04:17.260 Yeah, yeah, that hasn't helped either with Biden's recent announcements on the vaccine mandates, as I'm sure you're referencing.

00:04:27.200 Yeah.

00:04:28.320 No, you know, there's not that many dull days in politics, unfortunately.

00:04:33.520 Yeah, so let's just jump right into it because I know we're on a bit of a time constraint.

00:04:37.620 What are your thoughts about the response to COVID and the vaccine mandates that we heard from the president even just in the last, like I said, 12 hours or so?

00:04:47.260 Well, I mean, we should start generally. The response to COVID, you know, what is a reasonable response to a pandemic?

00:04:55.880 And that's not really a question that got debated with any seriousness really since the beginning.

00:05:01.920 I've always been of the opinion that it's a pandemic and there's really a limited amount that you can do about it.

00:05:07.680 Right.

00:05:07.800 This is the first time in history for a disease like this that we've even talked about widespread mask wearing or lockdowns or shelter in place orders.

00:05:18.780 Now, if you've got something that's like an extinction level event with, you know, a 50 percent mortality rate, it's probably reasonable to be talking about those measures. 0.90

00:05:27.880 But with something that's basically a hyper flu, I'm not sure that it's ever been reasonable to even be discussing those measures.

00:05:35.740 And then when you have the benefit of hindsight, you're looking at the data about, you know, do these measures even have an effect on the trend of the virus?

00:05:45.620 And it turns out that doesn't. Right.

00:05:47.340 So you really got a question. What the hell are we doing?

00:05:49.120 You're talking about lockdowns, mask mandates.

00:05:51.000 Well, lockdowns especially, specifically lockdowns.

00:05:56.220 But the jury is still out on masks as well.

00:05:59.380 That science is not clear, you know, intuitively kind of makes sense.

00:06:03.300 You can't spin on somebody if you're wearing a mask.

00:06:06.120 But there's other indications that show it still does very little to slow the spread.

00:06:10.560 But, you know, that's less of a cost on humanity than lockdowns.

00:06:14.780 So, you know, it's just not it's not as big of a deal.

00:06:17.880 We should we should separate those two things.

00:06:19.180 But so that's my general feelings on the response. 0.94

00:06:21.540 And then Biden gets elected, saying he's going to crush the virus, which is a pretty stupid thing to say, because you just don't get to have that kind of control over the virus. 0.96

00:06:28.920 Right. I think at this point, I mean, we have to assume this is my take anyways, that we're just going to live with covid indefinitely like we live with other colds and viruses and things like that.

00:06:39.760 And the more you hide from it, the longer it's going to take to live with it in a reasonable manner, the longer it's going to take for it to become like the flu.

00:06:50.180 Right.

00:06:50.440 Where we view it like the flu and we really should be getting there quickly.

00:06:57.800 And again, the more we hide from it, the more we keep like acting like it is is it is it's such an extraneous event.

00:07:05.800 The longer it will take to to build that immunity that we need to to get used to it.

00:07:12.440 Do you think it's an overabundance of caution or do you think it's deliberately and intentionally being wielded as a tool for consolidation of power?

00:07:22.920 I don't think they're that smart. I don't think that they I don't think that Democrats and the left in general have these sort of meetings and smoky rooms where they're like, we all we all know this is bullshit, but we're going to do it so that we can implement this kind of control. 0.76

00:07:39.120 I don't think they do that.

00:07:40.040 But aren't there a few people who do that and then that kind of moves the needle and some people maybe feel like they have noble intentions, but they're being manipulated to move an agenda forward?

00:07:50.340 No, I think they're wired much differently than conservatives and they just they honestly just think differently.

00:07:56.160 Again, I don't think they're smart enough to strategize the way that that we and conservatives are always trying to figure out like this, this we're always trying to theorize as to like, OK, there's no way that a reasonable person can possibly think this.

00:08:09.840 So there must be this ulterior motive. And what I have to explain to people is you need to study the psychology of the left a little bit better.

00:08:16.980 This is how they think they believe the crap they're saying. 0.97

00:08:20.340 Now, they might not have at first. They might have been skeptical at first, but they quickly they quickly made themselves believe it. 0.99

00:08:26.080 They believe so they have sort of a pathological sense of compassion, right?

00:08:31.160 Just like a mother bear has a pathological sense of compassion. If you get near her cup, she'll kill you. 1.00

00:08:35.460 Right. It was that is that a reasonable response? 0.99

00:08:37.800 Sure. Of course. Because you're a hiker and you walked by.

00:08:40.740 Is it reasonable that this mother bear killed you?

00:08:43.960 That's pathological compassion.

00:08:46.680 And the left has that. The left can't see anything but their own version of compassion and they're willing to kill for it.

00:08:55.260 Hmm. Like they're willing to control for it. They're willing to become ultra authoritarians for it just so they can moralize over you.

00:09:01.980 So it's it's important to understand that that's how they think and that's who they are just dispositionally speaking.

00:09:08.440 Well, it is interesting, too, because there's a level of vitriol that I see from the quote unquote compassionate and the empathetic.

00:09:15.280 Right. That that's what I've seen anyways. It's like, well, how can you be claiming to be so empathetic on this side?

00:09:20.600 But then just so vile, frankly, in a lot of ways, in a slightly different context, because it's pathological compassion.

00:09:28.740 That's where the pathological comes from, because it's gone too far and it's not well balanced.

00:09:33.980 Right. These are not balanced people. They only they're they're you know, they they moralize in a very strict sense on one thing.

00:09:41.800 You know, this I have compassion for this one thing and it eliminates all other forms of reasoning, you know, it eliminates considerations for just governing structures.

00:09:55.600 It eliminates considerations for really, really all other senses of morality.

00:10:01.220 And if we want to kind of dive into that of the psychology of morality, you know, it would be things like you have compassion and caring and kindness.

00:10:08.940 These are these are considered moral attributes, but also a sense of authority is considered a moral attribute.

00:10:14.700 Do you respect authority? Do you believe in a sense of authority, a sense of fairness?

00:10:20.560 Now, don't people define fairness differently if they're on the left or the right?

00:10:23.680 But these are these are all moral considerations, for instance.

00:10:27.360 Liberty might be considered for the right, at least. We consider that a moral consideration.

00:10:31.900 The left doesn't. So because they because they exclude these these categories,

00:10:37.800 they have an inability to reason fully as as fully thinking individuals.

00:10:43.620 Do you feel, though, on this on other side of the aisle, can you can you make a similar argument for the conservative side of the aisle being too rational without having as much empathy?

00:10:56.400 Like, do you feel like the conservative side of the aisle goes that way?

00:10:58.680 Yeah. I mean, there can be. I mean, you can get pathological on both sides.

00:11:01.940 Right. And on the right, it would. Yeah, it would look a little bit more like that.

00:11:05.440 Like the the the the kind of pathological need to preserve an institution, even if it's not good.

00:11:11.260 Right. Right. And, you know, because you've got to conserve it. Conservative.

00:11:15.140 Sure. But so it can go too far.

00:11:17.520 So the right balance is always, frankly, this is is you need liberals to sort of point out injustices and like kind of scream and cry compassion.

00:11:29.140 But you need conservatives to actually do the problem solving because liberals are not suited for it at all.

00:11:34.860 They always screw it up. They don't think about second, third order consequences.

00:11:37.700 They don't think rationally. They think with their hearts.

00:11:40.260 And this is the best kind of liberal. Right.

00:11:41.880 I think the worst kind are the more the kinds you're talking about earlier where secretly they just want more power.

00:11:47.800 Right. I mean, I've heard the distinction between liberals and leftists, for example.

00:11:52.500 And I think that's kind of the distinction. Progressives, leftists are just are strict, strictly authoritarians.

00:11:58.140 And because they believe that they can do it better or that they're more compassionate.

00:12:05.040 So that is the ultimate moral authority.

00:12:07.160 Like what is all of it? I think it's it's hard to it's hard to dissect, again, the psychology of these people.

00:12:14.080 Well, they yeah, I mean, for them to be so passionate about it, I'm sure they believe in their own good.

00:12:19.820 Right. You know, they believe in their own superiority.

00:12:24.420 They're utopianists. And to get to a utopia that they envision, you have to have total control.

00:12:30.680 And the Constitution and the Republic, they get in the way of these things.

00:12:33.760 Hmm. Checks and balances, just the our federalist system, they all get in the way of of that of that streamlined decision making and action oriented philosophy that they want.

00:12:44.960 It's action, action, action. And that kind of probably explains more why Biden is doing this, because his base demands action.

00:12:52.260 They always want action. Like for them, there is no problem that government can't solve and shouldn't be solving.

00:12:57.660 All problems are there for government to solve for conservatives.

00:13:01.060 It's it's not that's not true. I mean, we that's actually one of the first questions we ask about a problem.

00:13:06.460 One, is it a problem? Are you just making it up? Because a lot of times you're making it up or is it that big or you're exaggerating?

00:13:11.720 Right. Exactly. Wildly. But then the next question is, should government even have a hand in this?

00:13:16.820 Because when a government has a hand in this, there's cost to that.

00:13:19.320 There's second, third order effects. So maybe we should dissect those.

00:13:22.420 And then if government should have a role, which government should it be local, state, federal?

00:13:26.700 And these are reasonable questions for a reasonable government to be asking.

00:13:31.060 And it's it's the this comes from our founding philosophy of limited government.

00:13:36.120 And so for the left has no no interest in those questions.

00:13:39.700 Do you feel like your entrance into the world of politics, which has really been what over the past four years or so?

00:13:45.980 Do you feel like you've let me ask it differently?

00:13:52.200 How do you feel like you've changed? What have you seen?

00:13:55.240 What have you experienced? And then how has that impacted you personally in the way that you view America and the way we function and everything else?

00:14:03.600 Well, definitely more cynical and jaded.

00:14:06.100 I mean, to be frank, I hear it a little bit.

00:14:09.440 And so I'm wondering if that's always been the case or if that changes and hardens you over time.

00:14:14.220 Yeah. I mean, I was definitely not naive or idealistic coming into it.

00:14:18.180 Some people are. And like those are the politicians you generally hear from who are like, you can't get anything done up here.

00:14:24.220 No shit. That's like that. That's the point. Right. Actually. Right. 0.99

00:14:29.060 That's not what frustrates me. It's not Washington that frustrates me.

00:14:32.080 It's just I come from the military where I feel like felt like I saw the best of Americans all the time, especially the SEAL teams.

00:14:38.520 And and now I'm in politics. And so I just I see the angriest people all the time. 1.00

00:14:45.160 I see the meanest people. I mean, you know, I'm just I'm just wondering, like, what is what's wrong with you guy who's just so angry online and just saying such vile things?

00:14:55.020 Like, what is wrong with you? You know, and like there's there's a lot.

00:15:00.860 And, you know, I don't like that. I don't like what I see with the populist movements.

00:15:06.660 I think left leftism has always been a populist movement, at least the way I define it.

00:15:12.060 And I don't like what I see. What do you mean by populist movement?

00:15:15.360 So when I say populist, what I mean is telling people what they want to hear instead of the truth.

00:15:20.440 Hmm. And I don't think there's another good definition.

00:15:23.720 When the populist try to define it, they're like, it's what the people want.

00:15:27.340 Right. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. 1.00

00:15:29.920 Let me tell you why. Because every politician, every political movement thinks they're doing what the people want. 1.00

00:15:35.320 The thing is, and the reason we even have politics is because people want different things.

00:15:40.040 Right. And people have different ideas about how you might solve a problem.

00:15:44.060 And so what we do is we divide ourselves into political parties and different philosophies about how you might go about problem solving.

00:15:50.440 What's the best way to govern?

00:15:52.540 With looking at it different ways.

00:15:54.220 And then we debate that. It's all for the people.

00:15:57.120 So you can't just say, well, it's what the people want.

00:15:58.740 You know what? The people want free $2,000 checks.

00:16:01.720 That doesn't make it good policy. 1.00

00:16:04.320 Populism is stupid. 1.00

00:16:06.080 It's reflecting people's emotions right back at them in order to gain their trust. 1.00

00:16:10.180 That's manipulation. That's not leadership.

00:16:12.560 Leadership is actually telling people the truth.

00:16:14.260 So that's my definition of populism.

00:16:15.900 That's how I debunk what the populists say populism is.

00:16:18.520 But it actually, so I've thought about this a lot, even just over the past couple of days, you know, and I think I made a post on Twitter earlier and I said something like, you know, if the government would have just been more honest and had some integrity about COVID and just told the truth about what it is, what it isn't, what works, what doesn't work.

00:16:38.940 I think more people would probably be vaccinated at this point, but there's all sorts of red flags and alarms sounding for the American people when we have things like mandates because we know the government isn't telling the truth.

00:16:56.120 And so it raises more red flags than just being honest about it.

00:16:59.060 Well, our public health institutions have lost an unbelievable amount of trust in so many ways, the way they've acted, the way they've changed.

00:17:08.740 I mean, there's so many examples that people listening probably already know whether it was whether masks work or don't work. 0.71

00:17:14.760 I mean, if you look in historic CDC guidance for pandemics, none of the crap we're doing is in it. 0.51

00:17:19.400 Right. 1.00

00:17:19.560 And it's not like these people were just stupid. 1.00

00:17:22.340 It's just that that was a time when emotions were taken out of it and politics were taken out of it and it was just the science. 0.99

00:17:28.600 And it turns out there's not a lot you can do.

00:17:31.120 You know, it turns out, I mean, the best government could be doing is pretty much what we were doing under Trump.

00:17:36.960 Right. Flatten the curve. Let's not overwhelm the hospitals.

00:17:39.460 Well, I don't even mean that. I mean, support the hospitals.

00:17:43.300 You know, support the hospitals with funding, with hiring additional nurses.

00:17:46.280 That's a government role in a pandemic.

00:17:49.560 Operation Warp Speed, developing the vaccine in the first place.

00:17:54.360 That's a that's a government role.

00:17:55.920 And all government had to do was say, we'll buy it.

00:17:58.180 And then private industry went ahead and did it.

00:18:01.320 Start making it.

00:18:01.920 So, I mean, but I totally agree with what you're saying, which is, yeah, they've lost trust and they've they've made this whole vaccine thing.

00:18:07.620 I mean, I have no reason to think there's any danger with the vaccine.

00:18:11.460 I really don't.

00:18:12.480 But what it's mandated, even me, a very rational person, I start to like react a little bit.

00:18:18.860 Right. That's what I'm saying.

00:18:19.860 You know, and so I so I totally get people's reactions and it was it's just it's been such an unnecessary, you know, like it's at a 50 percent mortality rate.

00:18:29.520 You could make that argument a little better.

00:18:30.980 But with the way things are and with the fact that anybody who wants a vaccine can get it and look what you just need to keep telling people, if they really wanted to increase vaccine uptake every single day, they would show the statistics of who's hospitalized.

00:18:44.980 Right.

00:18:45.220 That's all you would do.

00:18:46.100 Right.

00:18:46.520 And say, look.

00:18:47.140 And then let people make their choices.

00:18:48.240 Is there a possibility that there's some risk to a vaccine?

00:18:51.640 There always is.

00:18:52.540 But your risk of getting covid for many of you is far, far greater.

00:18:56.820 So get the vaccine and that would be the best argument.

00:18:58.780 And then leave people the hell alone after that.

00:19:00.780 Yeah.

00:19:01.340 You know, there's again, we just have different philosophies.

00:19:04.820 And for the right, it's it's it's like, look, there's only so much we can do.

00:19:10.380 Not only that, but only so much we should do.

00:19:12.580 The left just doesn't believe that.

00:19:14.620 I mean, they really believe that they can control everything and that there's some moral good behind that.

00:19:20.480 And but it just never works.

00:19:22.160 And I don't know how many times we have to learn that lesson in just human history.

00:19:26.300 Well, we'll learn it when it gets hard enough and then we'll course correct and things will get more comfortable and easy.

00:19:31.520 And then we'll learn it again.

00:19:32.920 Do you have knowing what you just said with, you know, feeling more cynical about it and what is wrong with these people?

00:19:38.480 Is it something that you feel like you have deeper and further political aspirations or or is this something you're like, well, you know, I did what I wanted to do and now I'm going to move along into something else or I don't know.

00:19:51.260 I just don't know.

00:19:52.800 I don't have to make that decision for a while.

00:19:54.440 There's no decision points coming up for me.

00:19:56.820 So I don't I don't have to think about these things a whole lot.

00:20:00.680 And yeah, politics is a finicky business and it is about opportunity.

00:20:04.720 So if you're going to move up, you know, there's usually a seat opening or something.

00:20:07.980 Like there's there's something that's happening that's kind of out of your control.

00:20:12.020 It's not like maybe a normal career where you sort of lay out a pathway.

00:20:17.020 And those who do lay out the pathway in politics, I think, ultimately fail because it's it's too obvious to everybody.

00:20:23.580 It's like, you're just trying to get to this next.

00:20:25.480 They want it too bad.

00:20:27.000 Yeah.

00:20:27.020 Yeah.

00:20:27.280 And it turns people off.

00:20:28.340 Is that what you're saying?

00:20:29.020 Yeah.

00:20:29.420 Yeah.

00:20:29.620 Yeah.

00:20:30.020 And that's that's just my observation.

00:20:33.840 But I don't know.

00:20:34.520 I mean, you do not do this job because it's likable.

00:20:38.140 It's not it's not an enjoyable job.

00:20:39.940 I don't know.

00:20:40.320 I think some people do like it.

00:20:41.660 Maybe I'm wrong.

00:20:42.220 Some people like being.

00:20:43.580 Yeah.

00:20:43.700 Like the like the title, I guess.

00:20:45.640 The title.

00:20:46.440 I think other people like the play. 0.99

00:20:48.360 The play sucks. 0.99

00:20:49.140 I mean, it's. 0.99

00:20:49.640 Yeah, exactly.

00:20:50.080 Everybody thinks we're like a super rich.

00:20:51.820 It's like, no, I have to have two apartments, you know, in D.C. and Houston. 0.99

00:20:55.580 No, it sucks.

00:20:56.840 Um, and and you're not going to and you're not going to pay raise either. 0.96

00:21:00.820 It's not going up.

00:21:01.800 Yeah.

00:21:02.200 So, you know, there's just a lot of myths.

00:21:04.020 Oh, you get well, you get retirement for the rest of your life.

00:21:06.100 No, that's a myth.

00:21:07.020 Not sure where that myth came from.

00:21:08.260 It's not true.

00:21:09.500 Um, so it's just, you know, you do it because it's important and you can have some kind of

00:21:14.380 impact.

00:21:14.860 I mean, the reason you get into politics and not into policy, because that's where I was

00:21:18.480 originally looking at, you know, I got out of the military.

00:21:20.480 Um, I went to Harvard, uh, to the, to the Kennedy schools, which is basically a policy degree.

00:21:26.740 And I was just looking at policy jobs.

00:21:28.880 I'm not really even sure what that meant because I was just leaving the military.

00:21:32.820 Um, you, but politics you get into because you want to affect a wide variety of policies

00:21:38.480 and just have that bigger cultural impact.

00:21:40.780 And so I do enjoy that.

00:21:42.360 It's fulfilling.

00:21:43.040 I wouldn't say it's enjoyable, but it is fulfilling.

00:21:45.280 Well, one thing I think you do really well is, and, and I think maybe the distinction between

00:21:49.840 the two would be politics is more of the public front facing side of things where we see.

00:21:55.080 And so you do a good job explaining in your videos online and social media accounts.

00:21:59.200 You're like, here's, here's the real deal.

00:22:00.520 Here's what I think.

00:22:01.160 Here's the real issue.

00:22:01.900 Here's what's going on.

00:22:03.080 And, and I think that's, that's helpful.

00:22:04.960 And I, you do it just as well, if not better than anybody else I've seen.

00:22:08.860 I appreciate it.

00:22:09.900 Yeah.

00:22:10.040 I just try to kind of lift the curtain back a little bit.

00:22:13.380 I mean, you know, well, because I came from just being a normal voter and I was never really

00:22:17.200 politically oriented in the sense, like I wasn't volunteering, wasn't going to rallies.

00:22:22.740 Right.

00:22:23.020 I didn't really care, you know, you know, which Congressman was doing what, you know,

00:22:27.520 I, I just, I followed politics broadly.

00:22:29.380 I followed conservative thought, um, especially in my like later, you know, twenties is when

00:22:35.200 I really got into the policy side of it.

00:22:37.220 But I really came into politics for the policy background, um, and interest base and philosophy

00:22:44.600 base and not even knowing anything about the politics of it.

00:22:49.540 Right.

00:22:49.860 That makes, if that makes sense.

00:22:51.460 And so, for sure.

00:22:51.960 And so I guess, and so coming from that background, um, which I would say is how normal people are.

00:22:59.400 Yeah.

00:22:59.600 I was just a normal guy.

00:23:00.820 Most people are like that.

00:23:01.640 Like, yeah, you're like, you know, informed, but you're not like, like watching what Nancy

00:23:06.800 Pelosi said that day.

00:23:08.040 Right.

00:23:08.160 So you can tweet about it.

00:23:09.100 Right.

00:23:09.300 You know, there's, there's a difference there.

00:23:11.560 Um, and what I always noticed was people just don't explain things like they just speak

00:23:16.360 in talking points and it makes us not trust you when you just speak in talking points.

00:23:19.800 It makes it, makes us think you either don't know what you're talking about or you're hiding

00:23:23.140 something.

00:23:24.060 So just explain it a couple layers deep.

00:23:26.080 And so that's, I just took that to Congress and, you know, people like it.

00:23:29.760 Yeah.

00:23:29.880 Cause they just, they just want to know, you know, and, and, and it frustrates me even, even

00:23:34.140 in our own conference when we're like thinking about bills and how to vote on it, how to

00:23:38.960 message against, you know, HR three, the Democrats are putting out.

00:23:43.120 And, um, and I always hate it when our own side says this will cause job losses.

00:23:47.220 It's like, well, explain that.

00:23:48.600 Just tell me why, like just one more line, like, why will it cause job losses? 0.91

00:23:53.560 Cause they'll say the same crap about it. 0.65

00:23:55.460 And everybody's like, well, they're bad. 1.00

00:23:56.820 And well, they're, they're bad.

00:23:58.060 And then the voters are like, okay, let's go, you're both bad.

00:24:00.660 I got it, but we already know somebody give me an argument and then I'll assess based

00:24:04.600 on your argument, who's bad.

00:24:06.660 Yeah.

00:24:07.020 Um, and, or who's wrong.

00:24:09.020 Yeah.

00:24:09.240 And so, so it just takes a couple minutes.

00:24:11.400 Yeah.

00:24:11.580 It doesn't take a long time and also like directly confront their, their, um, their

00:24:18.540 positions.

00:24:19.680 This is another thing that never happens enough in politics where we just kind of talk past

00:24:23.360 each other and, um, you know, just say one thing and I'll say another thing.

00:24:27.760 That's just, it just doesn't really have to do with what you said.

00:24:31.040 It's unrelated cause you didn't want to address that.

00:24:32.300 So you kind of side skirt. 0.99

00:24:33.300 It's like, no, just, just address exactly what they said.

00:24:36.120 And like, I'm very, I think I'm very careful to do that.

00:24:38.720 I want to know exactly, I want to get your argument right and then attack it.

00:24:42.980 Um, as opposed to just sort of, you know,

00:24:46.420 well, otherwise you'll miss the target.

00:24:47.600 Like if you know exactly what it is and you can define it and also you can take the other

00:24:51.280 side and you can get them to articulate, they're going to wedge themselves into their

00:24:55.980 position, which I don't think they want to do, right?

00:24:58.780 Most people don't want to wedge themselves into picking a side, but if you can have somebody

00:25:03.340 do that, then it's easier to defend against or attack and you can move on that way.

00:25:10.040 Man, let me hit the timeout, the pause button on the conversation very, very quickly.

00:25:14.100 Want to share something with you.

00:25:15.220 If you're anything like me, uh, you have a tendency of letting other people's words

00:25:19.380 and actions become personal.

00:25:21.380 Uh, but it doesn't really serve you well when you do that, because when you do take things

00:25:25.500 personally, you tend to overreact or you react incorrectly to the environment around

00:25:29.840 you.

00:25:30.240 And this is a concept that is taken from the book, the four agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz.

00:25:35.840 And it just so happens to be the book of the month inside the iron council.

00:25:40.020 Uh, that's going to coincide with our monthly topic of creating your new reality.

00:25:44.300 Now, one of the best things about the iron council is that we all have the opportunity

00:25:48.760 to be challenged in our thoughts and our words and our actions.

00:25:53.760 And most of society would probably not consider that a benefit, but in the iron council we do

00:25:58.280 because challenge is the only path to progression and ultimate success.

00:26:02.640 So if you want to learn more about what we're up to and how the almost 1000 members of the

00:26:08.120 iron council now are challenging each other to become better men, head to order of man.com

00:26:13.040 slash iron council.

00:26:14.640 Again, that's order of man.com slash iron council.

00:26:17.940 You can do that after the conversation for now.

00:26:20.240 We'll get back to it with Dan.

00:26:21.460 Well, so speaking of policy, uh, let's talk about, uh, foreign policy, specifically Afghanistan.

00:26:29.100 I mean, I know that's on everybody's mind right now.

00:26:31.680 They're seeing what's happening.

00:26:33.620 Um, I mean, just generally and broadly, you know, what is your take on two points?

00:26:39.720 Number one, leaving Afghanistan. 0.97

00:26:41.980 And second to that is the way in which we did it.

00:26:45.160 Um, yeah, both bad ideas.

00:26:48.600 Um, I think a lot of people, I think everybody agrees that the way we did it is a bad, it

00:26:53.600 was not right.

00:26:54.480 Like the overwhelming majority.

00:26:55.780 But I think your, your first thing where you said it's not, it's bad on both accounts.

00:27:00.500 That's where I think a lot of people get hung up.

00:27:02.320 They don't understand why.

00:27:03.560 So I would like to hear your, they do.

00:27:05.000 And my, my question to them is always, well, I don't, you know, we definitely had to leave,

00:27:08.300 but I don't like the way we did it.

00:27:09.560 Well, how would we do it then?

00:27:11.140 And that's nobody's answered that one.

00:27:13.120 Um, cause there is no good way to draw down zero to zero.

00:27:16.540 It's actually the only honest thing that Biden ever said about it.

00:27:19.540 He's like, Hey, it's going to be chaos.

00:27:21.160 If you draw down to zero. 1.00

00:27:22.400 Yeah, no shit. 0.98

00:27:23.360 That's why you shouldn't do it. 0.99

00:27:24.420 Um, because it's absolutely correct that the Taliban will take over and then you have 0.98

00:27:29.720 a terrorist Disneyland like you have now.

00:27:31.760 And so knowing that ahead of time, why on earth would you pull everybody out when the

00:27:35.700 military is saying we need at least a few thousand people there?

00:27:38.680 We should keep Bagram. 0.85

00:27:39.460 Um, we, we need to, we need to keep our allies afloat to an extent.

00:27:45.280 Yes, that has a cost to it, but it's become a pretty minimal cost compared to the other

00:27:50.240 outcome, which is what we're seeing now, a terrorist Disneyland.

00:27:53.320 Right.

00:27:53.760 There's a cost to both sides of the equation.

00:27:55.680 There's always a cost.

00:27:56.460 And there's a lot of utopianists out there on our side.

00:27:59.560 Um, you know, the no more endless wars crowd that just refuses to acknowledge the reality

00:28:03.200 of the situation.

00:28:04.040 Like they just think we can have it both ways, just not be there, but also not have a terrorist

00:28:07.920 Disneyland.

00:28:09.200 You can't have, no, you only live in the real world. 1.00

00:28:13.020 If you want to write a fiction novel about your stupid world, you know, go ahead. 1.00

00:28:16.960 But they ain't real. 1.00

00:28:18.420 And there was no, there is no good way to draw down to zero.

00:28:21.180 I mean, I just, you know, oh, we would have kept Bagram.

00:28:22.960 Well, if you kept Bagram, then you'd have 2,500 troops there.

00:28:25.240 So that's not zero, right?

00:28:26.580 If your goal is zero troops, you better expect this, this outcome.

00:28:31.220 And, and people have just refused to believe that for years and years and years.

00:28:34.980 And it's, it has caused such a major geostrategic blunder, um, for so many reasons, not just

00:28:41.080 because we can't prevent nine 11s anymore, not just because of the terrorism aspect.

00:28:45.060 That's, that's going to be bad.

00:28:46.560 And it's going to get much worse in the coming years as they, as they finally get to regroup.

00:28:50.320 They're so happy they get to regroup now.

00:28:51.840 Um, not only that, but they're regrouping with a lot more money and a lot more weapons.

00:28:57.280 And, um, and also their, their recruitment is going to go through the roof.

00:29:02.500 Uh, just given everything that's happened.

00:29:04.380 What, what makes you say that because of a perceived win?

00:29:07.140 I don't even know if it's perceived just because it is a win.

00:29:09.900 Yeah.

00:29:10.080 It's as simple as that.

00:29:11.100 Right.

00:29:11.560 It's just a perceived win on their part.

00:29:13.300 And I'm not sure how else they would perceive it.

00:29:15.560 Right.

00:29:16.060 You know, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't, this is what, uh, the no more endless wars crowd

00:29:20.180 needs to understand too.

00:29:21.160 We didn't end any war.

00:29:22.880 Right.

00:29:23.420 They're still at war.

00:29:24.300 Just like they were at war with us before September 11th.

00:29:26.720 We weren't technically at war then.

00:29:28.740 Well, and I don't even believe that we, with 2,500 troops with, with our last casualty in

00:29:34.920 sometime in 2020, uh, I don't know that we were actually in a war currently before this

00:29:44.360 whole Afghanistan. 0.80

00:29:45.000 It's hard.

00:29:45.640 It's hard to, like, we're not in a war in South Korea, but we're there.

00:29:48.540 Yeah.

00:29:48.760 There's 30,000 troops there.

00:29:50.140 Right.

00:29:50.920 You know, and even before, even before the last 18 months, it was maybe an average of

00:29:54.960 six deaths a year.

00:29:56.480 Very low.

00:29:57.260 It just, back when I was in Afghanistan, you know, that, that, that felt more like a war.

00:30:01.840 It was constant operations, um, you know, but it, but again, it's like, you're always at

00:30:08.640 this decision after day two and day one, everybody agreed.

00:30:12.820 We got to go to Afghanistan because we got hit.

00:30:14.860 Okay.

00:30:15.100 So that everybody agreed.

00:30:16.160 Just nobody gets to say they didn't.

00:30:17.500 Right.

00:30:18.560 Um, but day two was always a difficult question.

00:30:21.740 And then again, the no more unless wars crowd acts like it was an easy question.

00:30:25.300 Tucker Carlson will get on and say, well, we, we should have just left 19 years ago, right?

00:30:29.360 After that, you know, on day two.

00:30:30.940 Okay.

00:30:31.200 Tucker.

00:30:32.540 Well, fine.

00:30:33.000 But can you at least acknowledge that that's not as easy of an answer as you're, you're

00:30:36.320 making it sound because all you're doing is allowing this region to revert to exactly

00:30:42.320 the same conditions that caused nine 11 in the first place.

00:30:46.420 So you tell me that that's a superior option.

00:30:48.680 I'm not saying we have good options in front of us, but I am saying that there, we do have

00:30:54.300 to deal with reality.

00:30:55.120 And if we want to prevent these kinds of attacks, which we did for the last 20 years, then you 0.97

00:30:59.160 might have to go out and fight and it sucks. 0.53

00:31:01.600 I don't like that option, but guess what? 0.97

00:31:04.420 All you people yelling about it online.

00:31:06.200 You don't have to go.

00:31:07.580 That's the other good news for you.

00:31:09.540 That's true.

00:31:09.980 You know, you have known nothing but peace for the last 20 years.

00:31:12.680 This is something Joe Biden said that really pissed me off.

00:31:15.220 He's like, this generation has known nothing but war for the last 20 years. 0.98

00:31:20.540 Screw you. 0.92

00:31:21.040 That's not true. 0.99

00:31:21.720 They've known nothing but peace.

00:31:23.300 It's people like me that have known war.

00:31:25.300 Very, very few of us, but everybody else has known peace.

00:31:28.540 The people in New York City knew war on September 11, 2001.

00:31:31.860 Ever since, they've known nothing but peace.

00:31:34.740 You know, until de Blasio took over and, you know, crime skyrocketed.

00:31:38.360 But anyway.

00:31:38.920 Right.

00:31:39.100 A different kind of peace.

00:31:40.400 Sure.

00:31:40.680 But you get the point, right?

00:31:41.960 Like, it's just, everybody on the left and so many on our side have been thinking about

00:31:47.000 this with such naivete and such ignorance.

00:31:51.300 And people died because of it.

00:31:53.340 There's now a terrorist safe haven because of it.

00:31:55.940 Chinese are emboldened because of it. 1.00

00:31:57.380 Russia is emboldened because of it.

00:31:58.680 Iran is emboldened because of it. 0.97

00:32:00.200 We have no ability to have any strategic influence in that region at all anymore. 0.96

00:32:05.500 And to say that's not important is to just reveal your ignorance.

00:32:09.660 And this is what the no more endless war crowd says.

00:32:11.700 I think this goes back to your thing about the populist argument, right?

00:32:16.240 It's populism.

00:32:17.140 It's 100% populism.

00:32:19.100 Well, and I think also, you know, as somebody who's, you know, a civilian who doesn't see

00:32:23.940 everything that you see, I think it is easier to say, well, yeah, I don't want our sons and

00:32:29.440 daughters over there dying for. 0.97

00:32:30.760 Yeah.

00:32:30.880 It's easy to say that.

00:32:31.800 I don't want people dying.

00:32:33.000 Right.

00:32:34.060 Thanks for that opinion.

00:32:35.400 Yeah.

00:32:35.880 Me neither.

00:32:36.660 Nobody wants anything to die.

00:32:38.540 You know, but honestly, like the entire opinion is based on feelings.

00:32:42.000 And like they, and what really irks me about, you know, I'm really speaking to like the

00:32:46.720 conservative side.

00:32:47.400 I don't really care what the liberals say about this.

00:32:49.920 They're, because they're always on a different side than me.

00:32:51.820 But I'm very, but I've just, I'm extremely disappointed in how so many of the populists

00:32:57.680 on our side have come to these conclusions and they always feel like they're moralizing

00:33:02.400 over me.

00:33:03.300 Like when they just resort to name calling, you're a neocon and a rhino. 1.00

00:33:07.180 Well, fine, but you're an idiot. 1.00

00:33:09.040 So, there's that. 1.00

00:33:09.840 Because I told people you were coming in the pod and that's what, I hear that a lot.

00:33:13.300 I'm like, okay, well, like, why do you think that?

00:33:14.940 Why?

00:33:15.180 Why?

00:33:15.580 Because endless wars.

00:33:16.960 Right.

00:33:17.360 Well, thanks for your really informed opinion.

00:33:19.120 I hope you're listening to this podcast right now. 1.00

00:33:21.120 And, um, you can hear me calling you an idiot. 1.00

00:33:23.740 Well, there's a bunch of people that just, they'll say, oh, and this is, this is what 1.00

00:33:27.780 frustrates me.

00:33:28.520 We're talking about frustrations is people will say, well, have somebody on that, you

00:33:31.740 know, we don't always agree with.

00:33:32.840 I'm like, okay, well, let's bring this person on that person.

00:33:35.220 I'm going to skip that episode.

00:33:36.480 I don't want to listen to that person.

00:33:38.220 It's like, well, okay, what do you want?

00:33:39.920 And I don't know who your audience is because you're not really a political podcast.

00:33:43.300 No, we're not political, politically driven, but I would say that the bulk of our audience

00:33:47.460 is going to be more conservative in nature.

00:33:49.660 Yeah.

00:33:50.540 Yeah.

00:33:51.100 And, and, and it's the loud ones.

00:33:52.520 Look, the majority aren't, aren't that way, but the loud, angry young men online, and 1.00

00:33:56.240 they are, they're angry, loud young men online, um, that, that really love shit talking. 0.99

00:34:03.780 This is what I've noticed. 0.99

00:34:05.440 And like, they're the ones who just kind of resort to these emotional arguments.

00:34:08.340 And these are also the toughest guys, right?

00:34:10.160 These are the ones who like to self-characterize as real tough guys, like real free men, you

00:34:15.740 know, and it's like, bro, you're just an emotional wreck or an emotional wreck.

00:34:20.100 And you're relying on emotional opinions and, and just, just to feed your own anger.

00:34:24.300 And it's weird.

00:34:24.960 And you need to stop because it's not manly at all.

00:34:28.680 You know, a manly thing to do would be to actually think through some problems and maybe

00:34:32.360 not resort to name calling.

00:34:33.680 Um, you know, it's, and maybe learn some things, you know, especially about subjects you don't

00:34:40.580 know, a level of humility that, that you can sit down and have a conversation like this

00:34:44.940 and say, I don't understand why you think this, please explain.

00:34:49.220 And I think one of two things is going to happen.

00:34:51.040 Either I'm just going to double down on my current belief because you explained it and

00:34:54.940 I still don't agree with it.

00:34:56.020 And I'm just going to be comfortable with where I am, which is fine.

00:34:59.220 Uh, or maybe I hear something that I'm like, oh, you know, I hadn't considered that

00:35:02.220 way and we see it from a different perspective.

00:35:04.260 And then we come to some sort of, at least closer to a mutual consensus about how to deal

00:35:08.340 with these things.

00:35:08.780 And I think in, in conversation, most people can get to that point.

00:35:12.140 Uh, social media has brought out the worst in people by far, um, to finish my thought,

00:35:17.840 what I was, what I was saying was what these, what these young, angry guys like to do is

00:35:22.300 sort of moralize over people like me and make it sound like they're saving soldiers that 0.94

00:35:26.640 I just want to go kill. 0.99

00:35:27.620 Mm-hmm. 1.00

00:35:28.120 You know, like I just want to send these young men, I'm just a politician that wants to send young 0.91

00:35:31.600 men off to their death. 1.00

00:35:32.360 It's like, Hey moron, you realize I am that young man, right? 1.00

00:35:35.740 Like you realize I am that guy. 1.00

00:35:36.760 And the things that you've seen personally experience, friends, brothers that you have

00:35:41.600 personally experienced.

00:35:42.960 Yeah.

00:35:43.340 I mean, it just, it just, it just holds no sway with me when they, when they do that.

00:35:46.540 And it's like, and also to pretend like they're saving us from ourselves or saving us from

00:35:51.100 the whims of big government as, as if veterans are just these victims, like these, these poor

00:35:56.480 little victims that just got sent to an unjust war, you know, veterans are actually people

00:36:01.760 who understood why we went over there.

00:36:03.620 You know, I speak to a lot of gold star families and recently too.

00:36:06.900 And, um, the reason we did this big call with all seal gold star families was just kind of

00:36:12.860 get a sense where everybody was at.

00:36:14.320 And, um, you know, I kind of came on just to deliver a message that, you know, your son

00:36:19.120 or husband's sacrifice was not in vain.

00:36:21.140 And, and they were just kind of like, yeah, we know that we know that that's not our,

00:36:25.340 that's not why we're pissed.

00:36:26.880 You know, we know their sacrifices weren't in vain because we know why they went over

00:36:30.920 there.

00:36:31.220 We know that they were taking the fight to the enemy so they wouldn't take it here.

00:36:34.940 Right.

00:36:35.380 By the way, that line triggers, it triggers the no more endless war crowd. 0.79

00:36:40.340 Like you wouldn't believe.

00:36:41.640 And when it triggers them, I'm like, why are you so emotional about this?

00:36:45.380 How, what part of that isn't true?

00:36:47.960 They just don't get it anyway.

00:36:49.180 And so what would be the response to that?

00:36:51.800 Cause I've heard that before.

00:36:52.940 They just get mad.

00:36:53.900 It just seems to me like, yeah, people do.

00:36:57.160 I have heard people say that where, but I don't know what their counterargument is.

00:37:00.740 Their counterargument is usually no, no, no.

00:37:04.280 We created wars in the middle of the oil for the resources.

00:37:07.700 And that's why they hate us.

00:37:09.580 Right.

00:37:09.920 And so we did it all.

00:37:11.160 It's a very liberal argument because this is what liberal college professors, college

00:37:14.960 professors have been teaching kids for decades, you know, stemming from the Vietnam

00:37:19.020 radicalism and that infiltrated the right in a very profound way. 1.00

00:37:22.920 And it's a stupid argument, especially when you're talking about Sunni extremism, Islamic 1.00

00:37:29.440 extremism. 1.00

00:37:29.940 It's a very stupid argument. 1.00

00:37:31.840 And it's just seeping in ignorance. 1.00

00:37:34.600 I mean, in one way I'll frame it to people is, okay, what exactly did we do to Osama bin 0.70

00:37:40.000 Laden to get him to commit 9-11?

00:37:42.120 Was it...

00:37:42.820 Or even before that.

00:37:44.320 Yeah.

00:37:44.760 I mean, was it us supporting him in the Mujahideen against the Soviets in the 80s being on his

00:37:49.440 side?

00:37:49.780 Is that what pissed him off?

00:37:50.780 Or maybe it was us defending his homeland of Saudi Arabia from Saddam Hussein in the

00:37:55.200 first Gulf War.

00:37:56.000 Is that what pissed him off?

00:37:57.520 We've done nothing but favors for this guy, you know, in a transactional sense.

00:38:01.560 Sure.

00:38:02.100 For years.

00:38:02.720 And yet he was...

00:38:05.080 He planned all of the bombings in the 90s.

00:38:07.660 Remember World Trade Center, embassy bombings, USS Cole.

00:38:11.620 USS Cole.

00:38:11.980 Yeah.

00:38:12.600 And it all escalated to 9-11.

00:38:14.940 And so why?

00:38:15.840 The question is, it's because he just hates us.

00:38:18.180 Right.

00:38:18.680 It's an ideology that you can't understand as a Westerner.

00:38:22.780 And you need to get over that misunderstanding and just accept that they're at war with us.

00:38:26.600 And that you will be in a perpetual war with them.

00:38:29.320 And the sooner we can come to that reality, the sooner we might make some smarter foreign 0.98

00:38:33.800 policy decisions.

00:38:35.160 It's a very utopian thought that if we just live and let live, that nobody will bother

00:38:39.620 us and we just let them do their thing.

00:38:41.460 Well, it's the libertarian side of the conservative movement.

00:38:44.280 I mean, they don't believe in a foreign policy.

00:38:47.120 They really...

00:38:47.800 Isolation, right?

00:38:48.760 Yeah.

00:38:48.960 It's isolationism.

00:38:49.840 It's utopianism.

00:38:50.960 Libertarianism is often just as utopian, at least in certain subjects.

00:38:54.540 Look, I'm a lot closer to libertarianism than I am to liberalism.

00:38:57.760 But they're both utopianists in many ways.

00:39:00.340 And especially with foreign policy.

00:39:01.760 What's the utopianism in libertarianism?

00:39:05.200 If we do nothing, everything will be fine.

00:39:07.580 Got it.

00:39:08.480 But now that's taking libertarianism to an extreme, of course.

00:39:11.840 I think obviously everything's on a spectrum.

00:39:13.600 And I think libertarianism makes a pretty good market theory.

00:39:16.320 I think on a domestic economic policy, libertarianism probably has the best and the most to say about

00:39:23.140 that, and again, I don't think you should classify all libertarians.

00:39:28.280 But let's just take the foreign policy approach, the Rand Paul libertarianism, the Rand Paul

00:39:33.580 foreign policy of just do nothing and believe that you can stick your head in the sand and

00:39:38.920 everybody's going to leave you alone.

00:39:40.320 That's not how that works.

00:39:41.340 It just makes you an easier target.

00:39:43.240 True.

00:39:43.860 Because you're not seeing where the threads are.

00:39:45.940 Again, go write a fiction novel about that world that you wish we lived in, and I'll read it.

00:39:50.220 I'm sure it'll be great.

00:39:51.300 But when it comes to foreign policy, we've got to live in the real world.

00:39:54.920 I think what people do is they make their opinions about other people or societies based on their own lens, right?

00:40:04.580 So I personally just choose to live and let live.

00:40:08.580 Personally, that's my philosophy.

00:40:10.220 You do your thing, I'll do my thing.

00:40:11.640 As long as you don't bother me, I don't bother you.

00:40:13.240 You're not impacting me.

00:40:14.180 Good, do your thing.

00:40:14.800 And then what we do is we take that belief, that value system, and then we put it on other

00:40:22.640 people and other societies who don't think like that at all, which is partly the reason

00:40:27.300 why when we started this conversation, you said, well, I just, many people just can't

00:40:32.140 understand this side.

00:40:33.080 That's right.

00:40:33.320 You can't understand.

00:40:34.400 You're filtering it through your lens and it doesn't make sense to you.

00:40:38.740 Yeah.

00:40:39.900 Yeah, I think that's accurate.

00:40:41.080 I'm not sure what I have to add to that.

00:40:42.380 What, so coming back to Afghanistan, you know, is, is we see the debacle, we see how challenging

00:40:48.660 it is.

00:40:49.260 Do you feel like the solution is to actually go?

00:40:53.260 And this is going to happen.

00:40:54.420 We're obviously, as soon as we pulled out 2,500 or 3,000 troops, we sent them 48 hours

00:40:59.740 right back in.

00:41:00.800 Double the amount.

00:41:01.580 We basically just like stirred up the hornet's nest and said, go back in now.

00:41:05.220 Once the hornet's nest is all stirred up.

00:41:06.820 Yep.

00:41:07.020 But what, what would be the path in your mind moving forward?

00:41:11.340 There's not a good path moving forward.

00:41:13.040 I mean, there's a good chance we'll have to go back just the way we had to go back into 0.95

00:41:16.480 Iraq after we did, we did this exact same stupid thing one decade ago when Joe Biden 0.98

00:41:21.120 was vice president. 0.99

00:41:21.920 Now we're doing it when he's president and we just don't learn.

00:41:26.980 You know, and, and, and again, I get so mad at the people who were like, well, I just don't

00:41:30.240 like the way he did it.

00:41:31.400 Um, because you know, that's bad. 1.00

00:41:33.120 Well, screw you. 0.99

00:41:33.720 You wanted him to do this. 1.00

00:41:35.040 You wanted him to do this.

00:41:36.540 You mean, no more endless wars.

00:41:38.440 Got it.

00:41:38.880 Okay.

00:41:39.120 No more endless wars crowd.

00:41:40.160 You wanted him to do this exact thing.

00:41:41.700 You don't get to criticize him for it.

00:41:43.420 You just don't.

00:41:44.460 There is, there was no good path to zero.

00:41:46.480 I don't know if that's true.

00:41:47.240 I mean, I agree with that.

00:41:48.220 What you just said, there's no good path to zero, but I don't know that saying that

00:41:52.880 we don't want endless wars would disqualify you from having an opinion about the way that

00:41:58.460 it was done.

00:41:59.480 No, you can have your opinion.

00:42:00.340 I'm not going to listen to it.

00:42:01.680 Well, and that's fair.

00:42:03.320 I mean, we, we all can choose what we listen to, but I still believe that I'm still waiting

00:42:07.340 for some, I'm still waiting for somebody to give me the, this is exactly how it should

00:42:11.000 have gone.

00:42:11.380 And there's probably like, there's, there's definitely modes of improvement for sure.

00:42:16.060 But here's the thing.

00:42:17.820 Joe Biden actually got lucky that the Taliban took over so quickly.

00:42:21.660 Cause imagine a different scenario.

00:42:23.300 Imagine that he pulled out and everything was fine.

00:42:25.780 The Afghan government was still going strong.

00:42:27.640 And now we're all thinking, huh, this is, this is going okay.

00:42:30.980 It's actually worked out.

00:42:31.820 Our, our ally government is doing well enough.

00:42:35.320 Like they're surviving.

00:42:36.320 Women are going to school, um, decent enough. 1.00

00:42:40.020 That's great.

00:42:40.740 Uh, and then two months later, the Taliban go on their offensive instead of two days

00:42:45.420 later.

00:42:46.080 Hmm.

00:42:46.620 So imagine that scenario.

00:42:49.060 We still have a bunch of us citizens in Afghanistan cause they had no reason to want to leave.

00:42:53.100 Right.

00:42:53.360 Because the, their government was still security there.

00:42:56.000 Um, a lot of interpreters, same thing.

00:42:58.080 So the exact same problem, except we have no ability now to move that 5,000 troops right

00:43:02.800 back in quickly the way we did.

00:43:04.200 Right.

00:43:04.940 So it actually could have been much worse, even if it had gone better and, and people

00:43:10.060 don't, people aren't thinking through the actual situation on the ground and the actual

00:43:14.760 possibilities.

00:43:15.480 This is why I say like, I really don't see if, if your goal, well, that, well, we would

00:43:19.360 have provided close air support.

00:43:20.420 Fine.

00:43:20.760 Then we're not at zero troops.

00:43:22.140 Again, if you're going to end the war and at least on your, in your kind of fantasy world

00:43:27.800 where you're ending a war and you're going to zero troops, you will get this outcome.

00:43:31.740 And I've been trying to tell you people that for years and you can sense how frustrated

00:43:37.100 I am and pissed off I am because at my own side, they've been, they've, we've been making 0.56

00:43:41.500 these dumb emotional arguments for years and it got people killed.

00:43:45.240 Um, it, and it lost America and an enormous strategic foothold in the war on terror and 0.97

00:43:51.140 as well as a strategic foothold in a region that is right next to Russia, China, and Iran

00:43:55.080 and right at the borders.

00:43:56.740 Yeah.

00:43:57.080 So.

00:43:58.220 Which I didn't answer your question.

00:43:59.640 I think, cause I got on a tangent, just going off about that again, what was your

00:44:02.720 original question?

00:44:03.460 I can't, I can't even remember what I said, but no, I think it's important, but I guess

00:44:07.920 what we need to evaluate then is what, what is somebody like me or somebody listening need

00:44:13.940 to do to be educated about these things?

00:44:17.080 Because yes, we do make decisions based on emotion.

00:44:20.000 We do make decisions based in ignorance because we don't know or don't have access to all the

00:44:25.260 information.

00:44:25.720 So what, what, what do we do?

00:44:28.200 I mean, obviously we can listen as much as we can.

00:44:30.420 We can stay in tune as much as we can, but there's only so much we can get.

00:44:34.760 Be humble.

00:44:36.320 You know, it goes back to what we were saying earlier.

00:44:38.360 And again, you talked about the angry kids online.

00:44:40.340 It's like, what do they lack most?

00:44:43.220 Humility.

00:44:44.320 You know, I mean, just, just think for a second that you might not know what the hell you're

00:44:47.840 talking about.

00:44:49.120 And if you, and if you are going to have a really strong opinion, make sure you can

00:44:52.440 really defend it without just kind of resorting to silly slogans and name calling.

00:44:56.900 A little bit of humility would go a long way in our national discourse.

00:45:00.060 I know what we were, what you had asked, by the way, it was, um, what are we going to

00:45:02.980 do now?

00:45:03.520 And the answer is no, I wouldn't advocate for like, go re retaking a bunch of airfields

00:45:08.240 in Afghanistan.

00:45:08.800 I mean, you, you just have to basically start over.

00:45:12.700 Um, and that's not a reasonable position to have now.

00:45:15.800 We're we've lost it.

00:45:17.820 Um, now if, if it becomes worse, just the way Iraq became worse with ISIS, you might see 0.79

00:45:24.780 a necessity for a re invasion.

00:45:26.580 If there's another, a major attack on the homeland, it almost seems inevitable.

00:45:30.120 Right.

00:45:30.600 I just don't know when.

00:45:31.580 Right.

00:45:31.880 Um, and it's, it's, it's really infuriating for, for those of us who have just understood

00:45:38.920 this situation for a long time and have just failed to communicate it, I guess.

00:45:43.640 Well, I mean, I only started in the last couple of years, so I don't, but I, but I, but I'm

00:45:47.060 frustrated with the people who knew better in power over the last 20 years who, who just

00:45:52.500 failed to be persuasive about it.

00:45:54.220 I mean, maybe, maybe that's look, that's definitely part of it.

00:45:57.180 But the other part of it is, I think there's a lot of people who are just willfully, you

00:46:02.680 know, blissfully ignorant about it.

00:46:05.300 And you could have been the best, created the best argument in the world. 0.70

00:46:09.160 And still there's a huge percentage of the population who's like, I don't care.

00:46:13.000 Just, yeah.

00:46:13.440 Or, or, or worse.

00:46:14.500 There's just, just, again, it goes back to the emotional slogan of just end the war

00:46:18.340 and the bring the troops home.

00:46:19.680 Right.

00:46:19.900 And it just makes somebody feel good to say that it makes them feel morally superior.

00:46:22.920 Even to somebody like me.

00:46:23.840 Right.

00:46:24.300 It sounds right.

00:46:25.120 Yeah.

00:46:25.280 Yeah.

00:46:25.520 There's a lot of things that sound right, but aren't, but aren't in reality.

00:46:28.300 Sure.

00:46:28.640 Yeah.

00:46:28.880 It's like life is more complicated than that.

00:46:30.920 Yeah.

00:46:31.900 So, yeah.

00:46:32.980 I mean, my frustration shows quite, quite a bit.

00:46:36.360 I'm still pissed off about it.

00:46:38.740 So what do you do in your day-to-day work, uh, that, that helps address some of these issues?

00:46:44.880 Is it getting other politicians together?

00:46:47.740 Is it having these types of conversations?

00:46:50.020 Is it continuing to present this information to the public?

00:46:53.200 Like, what is it that your work consists of to make sure we're making better decisions

00:46:57.760 moving forward?

00:46:59.620 Well, you, you run for office and you, you know, you have a voice in these things.

00:47:05.080 I mean, the issues I work on most are actually not national security related.

00:47:08.660 Um, I'm not on those committees.

00:47:10.120 I don't need to be, cause I can, I can affect that conversation plenty, uh, from the outside.

00:47:16.300 What committees do you sit on currently?

00:47:17.940 Uh, energy and commerce.

00:47:19.300 Energy and commerce.

00:47:20.320 Yeah.

00:47:20.600 So energy and commerce.

00:47:21.500 And I focus on energy environment and healthcare.

00:47:25.220 And that's important to my district. 0.86

00:47:26.800 It's important to the Republican side, cause those are arguments we tend to suck at.

00:47:30.520 Um, and we need to do a lot better at, if we had a vision for healthcare that America, Americans

00:47:35.620 could get behind, or at least understand what the hell we're talking about, we would never

00:47:38.780 lose an election again.

00:47:39.760 So what is, uh, what is your vision then for healthcare?

00:47:42.520 You need to look at healthcare, um, through the lens of, of premium support models.

00:47:47.680 Um, meaning, so Obamacare subsidizes insurance companies, right?

00:47:52.420 Government spending subsidizes, um, you know, a, a, a mix of insurance companies and hospitals.

00:47:59.140 Nobody's really subsidizing the actual patient and that's the proper way to, to look at the

00:48:06.640 safety net for healthcare.

00:48:08.440 He, so, so if we agree with the left that everybody should have access to good healthcare, and I

00:48:12.760 think that's a decent thing to agree to.

00:48:14.800 Okay.

00:48:15.400 We want people to have access to it.

00:48:17.140 Sure.

00:48:17.360 Here's a goal.

00:48:18.140 Here's a goal.

00:48:18.840 We want everybody in America to have access to good quality healthcare.

00:48:21.900 Sure.

00:48:22.320 Decent goal.

00:48:23.220 Extremely difficult to get to.

00:48:25.320 Um, the left wants to get there by just declaring that you have access to good quality healthcare.

00:48:29.140 That everything, that every service you get will just be paid for by government, right?

00:48:33.760 The doctor will just bill the government through Medicare for all and that, that'll work out.

00:48:38.020 Um, which tends to, correct me if I'm wrong, just basically over inflate the prices of everything,

00:48:44.920 which just gets debt passed down to other, other people.

00:48:47.240 It, it, it, not in this case.

00:48:49.820 Okay.

00:48:50.020 Um, cause they'll, they'll have price controls on it.

00:48:52.180 So Medicare for all is price controls.

00:48:54.040 And so you're going to actually, what's going to happen is you're going to underpay doctors

00:48:57.160 and hospitals because you're taking the free market out of it.

00:49:00.140 So you're going to look a lot more like Canada than the UK.

00:49:03.200 And that reduces the quality of care, the quality of physicians and doctors that you get.

00:49:07.700 That's the big thing you lose.

00:49:08.600 You're going to have a lot less doctors.

00:49:09.800 You're going to have a lot less facilities.

00:49:11.140 Cause why don't they go into the work and acquire $500,000 of debt if they're going

00:49:15.680 to make 80 grand a year?

00:49:16.760 I mean, you get enormous wait times, you get triaged care.

00:49:20.000 You're not going to get to choose the care that you want.

00:49:22.700 Um, but you know, but, but you'll get that basic level, right?

00:49:26.040 But, but forget about innovation, forget about that next cutting edge medical device or drug

00:49:30.460 because there's no incentive to make them anymore.

00:49:32.780 We're the last country that there's an incentive to even do that.

00:49:36.140 And that'll all just be gone.

00:49:37.920 Um, so if you're not willing to sacrifice quality for that, you know, universal access,

00:49:45.280 which I'm not, then you have to subsidize the patient and you have to look at it through

00:49:49.140 like the, the way we do food.

00:49:50.580 Cause another thing we agree on as Americans is we don't want people starving to death in

00:49:53.900 America.

00:49:54.780 So if you're too poor to buy food, what do we do?

00:49:56.860 We give you a voucher, a food stamp and you go buy food.

00:50:00.300 What we don't do is say, go pick out the food you want, go to the cashier.

00:50:03.360 The cashier will build some third party and then you'll be on your way with whatever you want.

00:50:06.900 And you don't even know how much it costs.

00:50:08.500 But I think with, I think with food, let's take food, for example, I think most people,

00:50:12.640 I don't, I don't know if most people, but I think a common thought is that, that, that

00:50:18.180 welfare should only last for a period of time.

00:50:20.280 But when it comes to healthcare, you're saying potentially indefinitely or is that just a

00:50:25.020 period of time as well?

00:50:25.980 No, it should still be means tested.

00:50:27.260 You know, I don't, I don't think, and you, the beauty with this vision is it would, it

00:50:32.760 would be a way to replace, look, look, let's get utopian for a second. 0.55

00:50:36.920 Now it's, it's almost impossible to get to this point with a single bill.

00:50:40.660 All right.

00:50:41.180 I think it would reasonably take 10 to 20 years if Republicans had full control and everybody

00:50:45.920 agreed on the vision that I'm talking about.

00:50:47.860 Sure.

00:50:48.260 Because it's complicated, but really only the only thing we're talking about in healthcare,

00:50:51.860 the only thing we're debating is what to do with the people who are in the individual

00:50:55.500 market uninsured, right?

00:50:57.700 You know, tens of millions, it's not that many people.

00:51:00.300 Most people are on an employment plan.

00:51:02.600 Let's just leave them alone. 0.66

00:51:04.080 If they like their plan, just leave them alone.

00:51:06.020 Right.

00:51:06.660 Um, then you got a population on Medicare, which is going insolvent and that's a problem,

00:51:11.200 but there's reasons, there's other reasons for that.

00:51:13.300 So let's talk about the uninsured population.

00:51:17.000 Obamacare tried to solve that.

00:51:18.620 Um, but it, it added so many regulations atop, atop the market that it just rose.

00:51:26.560 It just made prices increase.

00:51:28.280 It also just basically said, we're just going to, we're just going to change the standards

00:51:34.420 for Medicaid so just more people can be on it.

00:51:36.440 So now you're just putting more people on a government program.

00:51:38.920 They did some other things too that just made healthcare more expensive or at least insurance

00:51:42.680 more expensive.

00:51:43.260 So, so you need to, to keep quality, you have to keep the market forces in it, you know,

00:51:50.460 choice and competition.

00:51:51.740 Right.

00:51:52.480 And so that's how it works in the food stamp business.

00:51:54.600 I mean, they just go and they still choose different foods.

00:51:56.960 So people still have to compete.

00:51:58.520 And the company still have to compete for that customer base.

00:52:02.000 Um, so, you know, below a certain income, everybody should, well, look, okay, getting back to utopian

00:52:07.940 theory here, everybody should have a health savings account, which is a tax deductible

00:52:11.460 account.

00:52:11.840 Just like we talk about education savings accounts, right?

00:52:14.720 Same kind of thing.

00:52:15.540 Pull it out.

00:52:15.840 Everybody should have one.

00:52:16.780 You should be able to put money into it.

00:52:18.220 And if you're below a certain income, the government puts money into it and says, here, you

00:52:21.580 can, you can use this amount to, you can use this to, to pay for your direct primary care

00:52:25.900 doctor.

00:52:26.320 We don't have time to get into what I mean by that, but your primary care doctor, your

00:52:30.720 insurance policy, you choose it, you choose it.

00:52:34.320 And by the way, this is also how Medicare Advantage works, more or less.

00:52:38.720 Medicare Advantage is a Republican idea that is very popular among seniors, comes in way

00:52:43.260 under budget, and it works really well because it, it, it subsidizes the patient to, to, to

00:52:48.960 gets the patient what it needs, he or she needs, while also, while also maintaining the

00:52:55.540 market forces of choice and competition, because it forces those insurance companies to compete

00:52:59.460 against one another.

00:53:00.360 Which keeps prices lower, innovation higher, right?

00:53:05.220 That just makes sense.

00:53:05.860 It also allows for access, you know, which is something we all agree on.

00:53:08.760 So that needs to be the Republican vision.

00:53:10.580 It's patient empowerment is what I would say the Republican vision needs to be.

00:53:14.560 And that gets people uncomfortable because it's like, ah, it sounds like another entitlement.

00:53:18.220 We're already, we're already massively entitled when it comes to healthcare.

00:53:22.340 Yeah.

00:53:22.500 I'm talking about shifting that money around, um, in a more reasonable way and a more sustainable

00:53:27.600 way.

00:53:28.280 Um, and getting us, it actually gets us closer to more of a free market system with the

00:53:32.740 benefits of a safety net.

00:53:34.020 Right.

00:53:34.420 So that's, that's the, as bad as quickly as we can talk about healthcare.

00:53:38.060 And we, and we had to be fairly quick because I know you're on a time constraint and a time

00:53:41.580 crunch with as busy as things have been.

00:53:43.640 Um, obviously we could talk about other policies and other things, and maybe we can do another podcast

00:53:48.400 down the road, but I, I do want to tell you that I really appreciate you again, with those

00:53:52.700 videos and things that you're doing online, where you're sharing this, even just taking

00:53:56.080 the time with me to share this, cause this is going to go out to tens of thousands, if

00:53:59.600 not hundreds of thousands of guys who are going to be able to listen to it and think, okay,

00:54:02.200 well maybe I ought to look at these issues a little deeper than just basing it solely

00:54:06.640 off emotion.

00:54:07.580 And that goes for regardless of what side of the aisle you're on.

00:54:10.380 Cause everybody tends to get that way.

00:54:12.260 Well, conservatives like to think it's the liberal snowflakes that are so emotional.

00:54:15.240 That is just not, I mean, it's true they are, but, but so I don't, I don't, we, our

00:54:20.620 side easily matches them.

00:54:21.780 Yes.

00:54:22.240 A hundred percent.

00:54:22.740 And the cancel culture, the, the, the emotion it's got to stop.

00:54:27.360 If we think it's not on the conservative side, you're not paying attention.

00:54:31.400 I mean, it's there and it is like, if we're, if we're going to be the people that we envision

00:54:35.960 ourselves to be, we need to do a little bit better, hold ourselves to a bit of a higher

00:54:40.360 standard.

00:54:40.900 There's, there's been a lot of, it seems to me that the conservatives and just in the

00:54:44.900 frustration is the left grabs more power.

00:54:47.300 They've sort of started to copy their tactics a little bit.

00:54:49.880 Right.

00:54:50.200 That has to stop because their tactic, there's a reason that, that we have the moral high

00:54:54.960 ground and it wasn't, sometimes it doesn't feel that way, but there's a reason we, we

00:54:59.360 have it.

00:54:59.860 Conservatism is based in tried and true traditions and trial and error throughout history.

00:55:05.280 It is the, it is conserving our founding principles.

00:55:08.060 The left has none of that.

00:55:09.480 And we should, we should, we should be a little bit more confident in ourselves and our arguments

00:55:15.060 without resorting to the nonsense that, that the left often does.

00:55:19.100 And I think that's how, that's how that emotion sort of reveals itself.

00:55:23.400 Well, I mean, dialogue is the key for that, right?

00:55:25.380 So that's a big part of what we're doing here.

00:55:27.120 So again, appreciate you, appreciate the time, keep up the good fight.

00:55:30.720 We'll keep following and seeing what you're up to because we need more men who are doing

00:55:34.340 things to turn the tide a little bit and, and maintain what it is we have.

00:55:38.600 So thanks again, man.

00:55:39.480 Appreciate it.

00:55:40.280 Appreciate it.

00:55:41.000 Thanks for having me.

00:55:43.200 All right, you guys, there you go.

00:55:44.840 Good, bad, or indifferent.

00:55:45.880 I hope that you, uh, at least are walking away from this conversation with some new thoughts,

00:55:50.040 some new points to consider that maybe you hadn't considered before, uh, trying to make

00:55:54.200 sure that we, uh, get to the root of some of these issues that we're facing in society

00:55:58.060 today.

00:55:58.400 And I know they're very polarizing issues, but, uh, as we talked about in this discussion,

00:56:03.320 being level-headed, being rational, being reasonable, uh, in, and also being informed,

00:56:09.460 not completely ignorant.

00:56:10.680 Like a lot of us tend to be at times is the path to growth and, and solving some of these

00:56:16.940 issues that we are facing.

00:56:18.000 So make sure you're following Dan on the socials, Twitter, Instagram.

00:56:21.620 He's both very active on, uh, also follow me, tag me, take a screenshot of this conversation,

00:56:26.940 post it up, let people know what you're listening to, who you're listening to it with and,

00:56:31.700 and, and let the guys know where they're going to get this valuable information.

00:56:35.120 Because I'm telling you more and more men need to hear these types of conversations.

00:56:38.840 They need these tools.

00:56:39.900 They need these resources and they can get them here, uh, through the order of men network.

00:56:44.280 So appreciate all that you guys are doing.

00:56:46.780 Tag me tagged in again, leave that rating and review.

00:56:49.760 Uh, also I was going to ask if you've read the book, sovereignty, the battle for the hearts

00:56:53.500 and minds of men, please leave a review, a rating review that that is important right

00:56:58.260 now because we're in the final stages of, uh, getting our second book, uh, up and running.

00:57:04.200 So I need those reviews.

00:57:05.740 That would be a solid and a favor to me, especially, uh, if you get value from it.

00:57:10.800 And of course I want that to be an honest review.

00:57:13.500 All right, guys, that's all I've got.

00:57:14.960 Make sure you subscribe because we will be back.

00:57:16.940 Uh, and we're also going to be back tomorrow for ask me anything, uh, until then go out

00:57:21.400 there, take action and become a man.

00:57:23.220 You are meant to be.

00:57:24.580 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

00:57:27.180 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

00:57:31.180 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - September 14, 2021

DAN CRENSHAW ｜ Ignorance and Outrage are the Enemy

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