Order of Man - DAVE RUBIN ｜ Thriving in Our Woke Dystopia

00:00:00.000 Guys, we live in the single greatest time in the history of the human species, but that's

00:00:04.920 not to say that we're without our fair share of challenges and struggles.

00:00:08.500 It seems to me that the path we're on is leading us to a path of destruction and the pace of

00:00:14.320 our demise seems to be rapidly increasing.

00:00:17.160 My guest today, Dave Rubin would agree.

00:00:19.580 And although we don't see eye to eye on everything we discussed today, I think it will serve

00:00:23.860 as a reminder that we can and should learn to have these crucial conversations before

00:00:29.920 it's too late.

00:00:30.740 Today, we talk about the seeming futility of trying to create positive change in the world,

00:00:35.840 what quote unquote wokeism is and how to root it out of our society, big tech and how it's

00:00:42.580 working in overdrive to subjugate us, capitalism versus socialism, homosexuality and transgenderism,

00:00:49.340 and ultimately how to thrive in our ever increasing woke dystopia.

00:00:54.300 You're a man of action.

00:00:55.220 You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:59.920 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:01:04.440 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:01:09.460 This is your life.

00:01:10.560 This is who you are.

00:01:11.960 This is who you will become at the end of the day.

00:01:14.880 And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:18.900 Gents, what's going on today?

00:01:20.020 My name is Ryan Michler.

00:01:21.480 I'm the host and the founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement.

00:01:24.260 Welcome here.

00:01:25.280 Welcome back.

00:01:26.000 If you are new and don't know what we're all about, it's my goal to give you powerful

00:01:30.400 conversations with incredible men.

00:01:32.820 These are guys who have been successful on the battlefield, on the football and baseball

00:01:37.120 field, on the basketball court, in entrepreneurship, in academia, you name it.

00:01:43.000 The guys that we're having on are extremely, extremely successful.

00:01:45.620 And what I want to do is I want to extract their wisdom, their information, their knowledge

00:01:50.740 into applicable advice that we can put forth into our own lives and replicate some of those

00:01:58.560 results.

00:01:59.200 So I've got Dave Rubin on the podcast today.

00:02:01.400 He's a repeat guest and he just came out with a new book called Don't Burn This Country.

00:02:05.620 We're going to talk about that in a minute.

00:02:06.960 Before I do just want to mention very quickly, our show sponsors, specifically origin USA,

00:02:13.260 as the name implies, everything they make is 100% made and sourced in America.

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00:03:10.300 you came to origin via the order of man podcast and movement.

00:03:14.580 All right, guys, let me get to my guest today.

00:03:16.720 His name is Dave Rubin.

00:03:18.340 Like I said, he was on the podcast.

00:03:21.320 It was probably a year and a half or two years ago.

00:03:24.100 It was with the release of his book, Don't Burn This Book.

00:03:26.640 And now he's back to talk about his latest book, Don't Burn This Country.

00:03:31.340 Dave is a standup comedian.

00:03:33.480 He's the host of the Rubin Report.

00:03:35.440 He's a New York Times bestselling author.

00:03:37.540 And the thing that I'm most fascinated with Dave about is that even though he doesn't typically

00:03:42.320 align perfectly with what you would think of a conservative, he's always willing and open

00:03:48.900 to have a logical, rational discussion about it.

00:03:52.260 And that's what we need more of.

00:03:53.300 And you're actually going to hear that in our conversation today.

00:03:56.220 So please, guys, enjoy my conversation with Dave.

00:04:00.640 Dave, it's good to see you in person this time.

00:04:02.820 It's good to be here.

00:04:03.860 We did not get to any of the good stuff before we started the recording.

00:04:07.960 We barely even talked because we knew if we started talking, we're off to the races.

00:04:11.920 We sat here silently, awkwardly, waiting for this moment that we're at right now.

00:04:17.720 That's right.

00:04:18.180 We're freaking out.

00:04:19.620 All right.

00:04:20.000 So this is what I want to start off with.

00:04:21.680 You've got a new book, Don't Burn This Country.

00:04:23.400 And I was excited when I saw it coming out and you were on the podcast for the last one.

00:04:27.340 Oh, yeah.

00:04:27.700 And I kind of feel like everybody did exactly what you asked them not to do in that book.

00:04:32.680 And now you're like, well, look, if you're not, you already burned the book.

00:04:36.440 So like, at least don't burn the country down.

00:04:38.440 I feel like we've digressed even further.

00:04:41.000 That's actually the perfect setup for this because I've been thinking that.

00:04:47.060 I've really been thinking that for the last week as we've been leading into promoting the book and the tour and the whole thing.

00:04:52.240 Because, you know, when I wrote Don't Burn This Book, the idea was, hey, here are my principles.

00:04:57.500 Here's what I believe in.

00:04:58.540 Here's what I try to live up to, et cetera, et cetera.

00:05:03.000 And here's what I think is the best way for America to flourish and for people to flourish and all that.

00:05:07.240 And clearly not enough of that worked.

00:05:10.680 It doesn't mean that the ideas are wrong or that they're weak or something like that.

00:05:16.720 It's just that we are in a time, which is why the subtitle of this book is about the woke dystopia.

00:05:21.980 We are in a time of mass destruction of good things.

00:05:25.440 I mean, good things that our parents and grandparents and before that fought for, died for, for the freedoms that we completely take for granted.

00:05:34.420 We live in such extraordinary freedom, at least for now in the United States.

00:05:38.440 And had the ideas of Don't Burn This Book, which were basically classically liberal principles of individual rights, laissez-faire economics, live the life that you want to live within your means.

00:05:49.780 The government shouldn't do too much.

00:05:51.800 And we can talk about how my, some of my positions have slightly evolved in that sense.

00:05:57.400 But had those ideas really held, and those were the true founding ideals of America.

00:06:02.040 Those, there was nothing in that book that was counter to any of the founding documents of the United States.

00:06:06.860 And in many ways, that's what I was so proud of, because I was writing this book that obviously did quite well.

00:06:11.600 And it was like, hey, this is just the stuff translated from the people 250 years ago who were writing far more dense, intense documents that freed us.

00:06:23.820 But unfortunately, over the course of 250 years, we lost a lot of that.

00:06:26.660 And we needed a guy like me to come in and write a book.

00:06:28.920 Like, so had it all worked out, had, you know, 250 million people in America picked up that book and been like, man, this stuff makes sense.

00:06:36.780 And we better, you know, apply some of this.

00:06:38.960 Well, Don't Burn This Country wouldn't have been necessary.

00:06:41.380 Right.

00:06:41.720 That being said, I suspect this is only book two of a trilogy because the first book was about the ideas.

00:06:47.800 This book really is about the action that you can take in your own life, hopefully, to push against the wokeness and live a better life.

00:06:54.160 The third book, because I suspect this woke thing ain't going anywhere yet, will probably be the, like, the last thing.

00:07:00.900 It'll be like, pull up the bridges, dig the moat, get the Iron Dome system, like, we're in a lot of trouble.

00:07:08.020 But that, you know, the future's never written, so we'll see.

00:07:10.620 Well, hopefully.

00:07:11.240 I mean, hopefully this is part of the idea, the push to bring some of these concepts back.

00:07:17.500 Because I just, I don't know how it's gotten to this point.

00:07:20.540 You know, in fact, I'll ask you about that because it seems to me so common sense that these are the things, like you said, freed us, that liberated us, that brought more peace and prosperity and abundance.

00:07:32.880 And all of a sudden, now we're talking about things that I don't think have been issues ever or even for the last 50 years.

00:07:41.180 And now it's like, well, all of a sudden they're back.

00:07:42.620 Like, it's not only that they're back, so like one that's back, is that racism is back.

00:07:47.960 We really solved racism in so many ways.

00:07:51.740 And I know that just that statement alone will get the Media Matters people to clip it and say, see, Ruben said, and he was sitting with a white guy and the guy, you know, had a beard and a flannel shirt and they were obviously white.

00:08:03.660 And it's like, but that, what they would do with that is just not true.

00:08:08.040 We really did.

00:08:09.100 We were becoming a truly post-racial society.

00:08:11.560 That isn't to say that there aren't some racists.

00:08:13.620 There's always going to be some racists.

00:08:15.300 There's always going to be some people that don't like gays.

00:08:17.420 And there's always going to be some people that don't like women or Asian people or people with limps.

00:08:21.380 It's just how it is.

00:08:22.500 That's part of the human condition.

00:08:23.900 Which, by the way, if you think you can exterminate all of those things, yeah, you're going to have to kill an awful lot of people to do it.

00:08:29.540 I would prefer.

00:08:29.940 Or control a lot of them.

00:08:30.960 Well, you control them first and then you kill them.

00:08:33.540 Well, they aren't controlling them.

00:08:34.520 I skipped.

00:08:35.100 Sure.

00:08:35.740 I skipped over the control part right to the death part.

00:08:38.560 Book three already.

00:08:39.420 That's right.

00:08:39.920 That's book three.

00:08:40.700 We're going to have to deal with those guys.

00:08:43.260 But there's this bad set of ideas where we solved a lot of stuff.

00:08:49.080 So we solved racism.

00:08:50.360 We really did in most ways to say that, first off, there were no laws in the United States.

00:08:54.300 And there are no laws, although they're coming back through the progressives.

00:08:57.220 There are no laws that stop you from doing anything based on the color of your skin.

00:09:00.960 There are bad policies that harm people based on the color of their skin.

00:09:04.600 But there are policies usually brought in by Democrats and progressives that keep, say, black people stuck in cycles of poverty because you put them on affirmative action.

00:09:13.060 Yeah.

00:09:13.240 And you give them all these handouts and then you give them subsidized housing and then it's not their fault.

00:09:18.380 It has nothing to do with the color of their skin.

00:09:19.960 And this happens to some white people, too, that got caught in this, where if the government just puts you on the dole, it's very hard to get off that dole.

00:09:27.040 If the government says, hey, you can have an apartment that the market says it's $3,000 a month, we'll give it to you for $400.

00:09:33.620 And we're going to give you food stamps and some cash and some other benefits.

00:09:38.440 Well, then after a year of that, let's say, you're not going to suddenly be like, you know what, I really should get out there, bust my ass.

00:09:43.520 Then I'm going to have to lose the benefits, move further away from the cool city or whatever it might be, and work that much harder, sometimes for less.

00:09:50.700 So it's, in many ways, the people who are pretending to be the anti-racists who are putting in racist policies.

00:09:58.140 So that's one.

00:09:59.060 Do you think with that, do you think it's intentional?

00:10:03.440 Do you think it is a case of good intentions executed poorly, a combination of both?

00:10:09.540 Well, you know where the road to hell, what it's paved with.

00:10:12.480 Sure.

00:10:12.900 It's paved with good intentions.

00:10:14.220 So I think it's a combination.

00:10:15.480 I think that the average young person that buys these ideas, they're not a bad person.

00:10:22.120 No, and they don't know, they're ignorant about it.

00:10:23.220 They have no freaking idea, they're ignorant.

00:10:24.900 Our education system is an abject disaster, and it has taught them all of the wrong things, that somehow the system, you should bow to the system and give to the system, and then the system will allow the crumbs to come back to you, and that will somehow be good.

00:10:39.020 And I just don't buy that.

00:10:40.460 I think that's completely flipped upside down.

00:10:42.200 So I think at some level, you have a bunch of people that have just kind of swallowed bad ideas, but then you have the people who are genuinely the bad actors who want to control people.

00:10:50.820 So I would say you could take someone like Bernie Sanders, for example.

00:10:53.500 I believe he's a believer in socialism.

00:10:55.180 I think he does.

00:10:55.860 I think he's a moron, but I think he genuinely believes it.

00:10:58.200 Yes.

00:10:58.860 So that's a very specific type of person, and it's an odd one because you would think that after 70 plus years on Earth, you would realize what individualism is about.

00:11:09.660 You'd realize what basic economics are about, or a guy who's claimed to fight the system his whole life, who also became a millionaire and owns three houses in the midst of it, the socialist leader.

00:11:19.000 Right.

00:11:19.180 You would think that he would have learned a little something like, oh, I've been fighting the system my whole life.

00:11:24.700 I hate the system, yet all of my policies are to make the system stronger.

00:11:28.320 All of his policies are more money to the system, more power to the system.

00:11:31.580 Do you think he hates the system?

00:11:33.580 Well, so that's where you go to this.

00:11:36.020 I think he hates, or excuse me, hates the result.

00:11:41.580 And I don't even think it's the result.

00:11:43.020 I should say it this way.

00:11:43.720 He hates the perceived result of that system.

00:11:46.620 Yes.

00:11:46.960 So that's where a guy like Bernie Sanders, it's like, so we're both agreeing that basically he is a believer.

00:11:51.700 He is a believer of big government and socialism and all that.

00:11:54.600 He constantly tells you that he hates the American system, right?

00:11:57.940 He hates capitalism.

00:11:59.740 He hates the basic tenets of what this country is about.

00:12:04.420 He wants to unend.

00:12:05.400 He is a socialist.

00:12:07.620 So his basic-

00:12:09.720 I don't even know that they say that anymore.

00:12:11.360 You know, for the record, I was way ahead on that.

00:12:14.560 There were five years ago, I was like, by the way, guys, they're going to drop the Democratic thing soon enough.

00:12:18.520 And now they don't say it anymore.

00:12:19.680 I mean, AOC flat out says she's a socialist.

00:12:22.160 We let that happen right in front of our eyes.

00:12:24.860 So the question with Bernie, it's like, can you be so wrong about all of your ideas and be a believer?

00:12:30.360 Or is there some other part of him where he's in too deep?

00:12:33.000 I think the other part that happens because they injected the wokeness with it.

00:12:36.640 So Bernie was a socialist before wokeness, right, before all the hyper-racial stuff, before all the gender stuff.

00:12:42.880 Then he got into this match made in hell with the wokesters, the cultural Marxists.

00:12:48.780 He knows he can't turn back now.

00:12:51.060 I have a feeling if you really sat with Bernie and really knew what was in his head, he would still say he's a socialist in terms of economic policy.

00:12:59.140 And we may find that to be completely wrong.

00:13:01.540 I don't really think that he fully buys into this, you know, the woke gender stuff.

00:13:09.440 And the woke, like, does he not believe in biology the way they don't believe in biology?

00:13:13.200 Does Bernie suddenly really believe that you can't just not be racist?

00:13:17.840 You have to be anti-racist.

00:13:19.440 But they combined into something.

00:13:22.260 And the beauty of it for guys like us and for people that are watching the show is that the revolution eats their own.

00:13:26.620 Bernie, this will not end well for Bernie.

00:13:29.520 You can already see it.

00:13:30.380 He's gone already in a lot of ways, right?

00:13:32.040 So it's kind of funny that I brought him up because he's not that culturally relevant anymore.

00:13:37.040 In essence, he's the old white guy who turned out to be rich that helped them get in the door.

00:13:42.020 But they don't really need him anymore.

00:13:43.520 And the radicals will be far more radical.

00:13:45.700 So I think on Bernie's deathbed, he will have a lot to atone for because he ushered this thing in.

00:13:52.340 I don't think he fully realized what he was ushering in.

00:13:55.120 I see what you're saying, but I don't know that I would agree that he feels that way even now because I think he's brainwashed himself.

00:14:03.940 It's like...

00:14:04.560 Do you think he buys the woke stuff?

00:14:06.500 I do.

00:14:06.760 Yeah, really?

00:14:07.300 I do because I think...

00:14:08.380 Well, I'll say it this way.

00:14:09.460 I don't know.

00:14:10.140 I don't know.

00:14:10.540 We don't know.

00:14:10.880 We're just speculating.

00:14:11.840 Sure.

00:14:12.000 But here's what I'll say is you take somebody who's religious, for example, and they're a Christian.

00:14:18.020 They live by Christian principles and pretty normal person, right?

00:14:23.200 And then they get indoctrinated or they start to take it too far and it becomes almost cult-like.

00:14:29.960 I've had personal friends of mine take it so far, religion so far, and go so far down that rabbit hole that they've quite literally lost their wealth and abundance, their homes, and their families because they just went nuts about it.

00:14:45.200 And I think you actually addressed this a little bit in the sheepish propensity that we have as humans, is that we just buy into it and we don't have to think and we just gradually buy more, more, more, more, and then we're just so entrenched in it that we don't see it any other way.

00:15:01.000 Well, that's interesting.

00:15:01.760 So it's hard for us to analyze what's actually in Bernie's heart and what connects that to his mind.

00:15:07.780 So yeah, we probably can't come up with the perfect answer for that.

00:15:10.780 But, you know, another example of this that you could use is a guy like Jon Stewart, who for the last 20 years was basically the meme around Jon Stewart was, yeah, more young people get their news from Jon Stewart than anywhere else, right?

00:15:21.980 That's what they kept saying about Jon Stewart.

00:15:23.740 Jon Stewart, I think, is probably for the most part a decent liberal.

00:15:27.120 I agree.

00:15:28.060 In that I think he's a decent guy.

00:15:29.740 I think he's a little confused about some of the policies, but he's in Hollywood.

00:15:34.220 The machine really likes him.

00:15:35.520 But have you seen him over the last couple of weeks?

00:15:37.660 He's going full woke now.

00:15:39.120 I know.

00:15:39.300 And he's doing these episodes on his show on Apple TV where they pay him at least $10 million a year.

00:15:44.400 I don't know why he doesn't give that to 20 black people because, you know, white people have had their day by his logic, not by mine.

00:15:50.620 They say, sure.

00:15:51.220 But he's doing these segments, you know, apologize all white people or all white people this or white farmers this.

00:15:57.400 And I don't think he really believes it.

00:15:59.860 It's the simple that for him, it's like he's in that thing now.

00:16:03.140 So now you've surrounded yourself with all of these people.

00:16:05.840 And now what is he?

00:16:06.880 He's worth, I think, around $120 million.

00:16:08.540 He's a super rich, white Hollywood comedian.

00:16:12.500 You're in the muck with these people, with these horrible ideas.

00:16:18.040 They will turn on you in a second.

00:16:19.600 So he's got to keep going.

00:16:21.900 It's a really, it's a deal with the devil in a way.

00:16:24.240 And I think when you, the thing is when you escape that, which is really what my life has been about and these books have been about, when you escape that you realize that there are so many other interesting people from all sorts of walks of life that are going to have different religious views and different personal views and all of those things.

00:16:40.060 But that we all want to live in the same country together.

00:16:43.020 We all want to be neighbors with each other.

00:16:45.280 We may have our own beliefs on how someone lives their life privately, but we're not trying to impose our beliefs on that.

00:16:52.880 We don't walk around in constant, you know, constantly looking, who can I hate and why can I hate them?

00:16:58.100 And what are they doing to me?

00:16:59.020 What do they do to me?

00:16:59.760 Exactly.

00:17:00.360 Right.

00:17:00.680 And that's such a more, it's such a better thing.

00:17:03.480 It's a happier existence, truly.

00:17:06.540 And not, you know, I toured with Jordan Peterson, as you know, it's not that happiness is the ultimate goal, but it's a more fulfilling existence to just know, hey, I'm sitting across from someone who's a decent guy.

00:17:15.760 We're going to have some differences.

00:17:16.720 We can talk about those differences and it's just fine.

00:17:19.680 You know, I'm not looking to take your stuff and make you bow to me or vice versa.

00:17:25.800 That's what this country is all about.

00:17:27.360 That's what we got to fight for now.

00:17:29.020 It's interesting.

00:17:30.140 I had a, I was telling Todd, I had a Uber driver on the way over here and I told him I'm originally from Utah.

00:17:37.060 We were talking and he's like, oh yeah.

00:17:38.300 He's like, I knew some Mormon people from Utah.

00:17:40.160 And he started talking about Mormonism and he wasn't bad mouthing, but he was like poking at it a little bit.

00:17:46.300 And so I just let him go.

00:17:47.300 And then when he's all done, I said, I'm Mormon, by the way.

00:17:49.700 And he was like, wait, what?

00:17:51.520 And he was so nervous.

00:17:52.660 Yeah.

00:17:53.060 So that, that maybe he, I'm like, I'm not offended in the slightest.

00:17:56.860 Like no big deal because it's funny.

00:18:00.380 That's it.

00:18:00.820 It's just funny.

00:18:01.440 It's not that big a deal.

00:18:02.620 That does not surprise me at all.

00:18:04.020 Because I can tell you that from my experience over the last, however many years I've been doing this publicly, I have consistently found Mormons to be the nicest, most welcoming, best sense of humor.

00:18:15.460 One of the best nights of my life, my life was when I was on tour with Jordan Peterson in Salt Lake City.

00:18:21.980 That was the week of, what's the big Mormon week in Salt Lake?

00:18:25.380 General Conference.

00:18:25.780 General Conference.

00:18:26.760 So that was, General Conference was there.

00:18:28.160 So, you know, basically every Mormon in the country is there.

00:18:31.060 Mormons everywhere.

00:18:31.960 Everybody's watching it.

00:18:32.920 You throw water on them.

00:18:33.920 They're multiplying like Mormons everywhere.

00:18:36.300 First off, everyone looks great.

00:18:37.880 They're happy, social.

00:18:39.180 Everyone's talking to each other.

00:18:40.660 The whole city was abuzz.

00:18:41.900 We had an off night.

00:18:43.600 So I did, I think it's Wisecrackers is the comedy club in Salt Lake City.

00:18:48.500 Sold out the show.

00:18:50.020 And I went up there.

00:18:51.280 I made some Mormon jokes.

00:18:52.540 I made some gay jokes.

00:18:54.040 I was just messing with the crowd for an hour and a half.

00:18:56.060 Then I brought on Jordan as a surprise.

00:18:57.980 Oh, that's cool.

00:18:58.720 It was electric in that room.

00:19:01.620 And, you know, look, obviously, you know, Mormon doctrine has some issues with me or my lifestyle or whatever.

00:19:08.760 Of course.

00:19:09.020 And I'm happy to talk about that if you want.

00:19:10.040 But the people in terms of here are human beings in a room talking about stuff and enjoying each other.

00:19:16.120 And putting aside everything that I just told you there, the fact that Book of Mormon was the number one show on Broadway for years.

00:19:21.340 There's a lot of other religions that would not have tolerated that.

00:19:24.060 Oh, definitely.

00:19:24.640 And Mormons did.

00:19:25.520 And now, ironically, you know what's happening now that I think it's coming back to Broadway.

00:19:28.720 And they've decided.

00:19:29.420 I think they've decided to take out some of the jokes because now it's too offensive.

00:19:32.940 But not because Mormons find it too offensive.

00:19:34.780 Everybody else.

00:19:35.340 It's because the woke lefties find it too offensive.

00:19:37.860 There's no Mormon running around like, oh, this is too offensive.

00:19:40.900 There might have been some that maybe weren't so thrilled with it.

00:19:43.200 But I think most were like, oh, some of our ideas are getting out there.

00:19:46.800 It's a little more mainstream.

00:19:47.860 That's cool.

00:19:48.960 But, like, you got to give credit where credit is due.

00:19:51.540 Here is a religion that's saying, hey, poke fun at us.

00:19:54.460 You're allowed to poke fun at us.

00:19:55.540 Mel Brooks has been doing this for a long time with Judaism, right?

00:19:58.020 Yeah.

00:19:58.280 And that's kind of what keeps people going.

00:20:00.200 Oh, you can laugh.

00:20:01.000 You can grapple with some stuff in a fun way.

00:20:05.040 So, as a general rule, I love Mormons, truly.

00:20:07.620 I also think it's a good way to get out conversations that would be very strenuous, to put it mildly, if you didn't have a way to have, like, that little release valve.

00:20:16.840 Oh, yeah.

00:20:17.340 Like, let's make fun of it.

00:20:18.880 Because if we don't, we're all thinking it, right?

00:20:21.100 Like, you could talk about, you know, your lifestyle.

00:20:23.860 You mentioned that.

00:20:24.960 And, yeah, clearly, there's differences of opinion there.

00:20:28.060 And yet, here we are, talking.

00:20:30.420 I don't think less of you.

00:20:32.040 Yeah.

00:20:32.380 I don't think you think less of me.

00:20:34.660 With your traditional lifestyle.

00:20:37.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:20:38.060 Like, as that's a threat.

00:20:39.280 I don't care.

00:20:40.500 This is how I choose to live my life.

00:20:42.000 You choose to live your life one way.

00:20:43.440 And, cool.

00:20:44.660 Go for it.

00:20:44.980 To me, what you just described right there is the true American ideal.

00:20:48.000 Because the founding documents, first off, these were, God is in the founding documents, right?

00:20:53.740 Right.

00:20:54.900 And the founders all talked about being a people, in essence, that, you know, this is for a moral people.

00:21:01.180 That this set of documents, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, that there's a certain morality attached to it.

00:21:07.660 But they weren't forcing their morality on anyone.

00:21:09.860 So, there was always a little bit of a tension between individual rights and then what is the best way for humans to flourish.

00:21:17.120 I try to get into that in the book that, you know, you start as just individuals, but then individuals usually come together in a family unit and then family units come together in a wider community, your local community, the schools that you send your kids to go to, your synagogue or your church or whatever it might be.

00:21:34.460 Now, from my position, the family, I think, can look a lot of different ways.

00:21:40.200 And that is, it doesn't mean it's better or worse or anything else.

00:21:44.940 There are reasons that it will be different.

00:21:46.520 So, I happen to be married to a man.

00:21:48.860 There will be no mom, traditional mom in the house.

00:21:52.700 Now, that does present challenges.

00:21:54.300 I don't sit here and pretend that it doesn't.

00:21:56.440 We know how important women are, obviously.

00:21:59.200 My mom is a woman.

00:22:00.220 We know about women.

00:22:01.760 You know women.

00:22:02.280 So, you know, we're going to have my husband.

00:22:04.060 Are you a biologist, though?

00:22:04.780 I'm not even a freaking biologist.

00:22:06.760 Let's make sure we throw this disclaimer out there because, guys, he's not a biologist.

00:22:11.160 To be totally honest, my producer's sitting there.

00:22:13.280 I had him Googling woman before we got here.

00:22:15.500 So, I thought that I could say it confidently.

00:22:16.740 You're good to go.

00:22:17.300 Yeah.

00:22:18.420 But that's the stupidity that we're dealing with right now.

00:22:20.860 I mean, we literally, sidebar, but we literally have a Supreme Court nominee who's going to get on the Supreme Court who was afraid to say what a woman is.

00:22:29.940 You don't need, I Googled it on my show just to give the actual technical, but do you have a uterus or a woman?

00:22:35.400 Like, that's it.

00:22:36.160 That basically is it.

00:22:37.300 We know what it is.

00:22:38.080 And she was afraid to say it.

00:22:39.800 And that fear then, I mean, that's seriously dangerous stuff.

00:22:42.920 This is someone, Roe v. Wade is going to get kicked up to the Supreme Court most likely while she's sitting on the Supreme Court.

00:22:50.560 You might want to know what a woman is.

00:22:52.180 I mean, we're going through surrogacy right now.

00:22:54.720 I know an awful lot about when the egg meets the sperm and literally a day later, you know, if it's a male or a female, they'll also tell you that sex doesn't exist.

00:23:03.460 It's like, so my doctor, who's like the number one fertility doctor in the United States, is he a freaking maniac when he showed me the pictures and he's like male or female?

00:23:13.740 You know, there's a game that's played.

00:23:15.240 So they do this.

00:23:15.620 It's with everything.

00:23:16.200 Well, it's the word game, right?

00:23:18.460 So the first thing was, well, yes, we acknowledge sex, of course.

00:23:23.780 It's biology.

00:23:25.160 But we're talking about gender.

00:23:26.540 That's different.

00:23:27.480 And now they're using the term male, female, woman, man, interchangeably.

00:23:32.820 Woman, that could be anybody.

00:23:34.660 Wait, so now are you talking about sex or gender?

00:23:37.200 Well, it's just whoever.

00:23:38.900 And they're conflating the two.

00:23:40.160 And like you said earlier about democratic socialists.

00:23:42.940 I will make it convenient, make it so people accept it.

00:23:46.460 Now we'll get rid of that and be really what we want it to be.

00:23:49.800 There's a fundamental reason for that, which I was trying to defend against in the first book, which is that liberalism, the strength of liberalism is also its weakness.

00:23:58.060 So true liberalism, the idea of individual rights and that you want people to live how they want to live and hopefully a society can roughly organize around that.

00:24:05.780 That's a beautiful thing.

00:24:06.780 The problem with that is that liberals, in a modern sense, have put tolerance, or actually what now has become pretend tolerance, above everything else.

00:24:15.120 So once you have an equal society, meaning black people can vote and women can vote and gay people get married, there's no one that's a legal member of the United States that has any rule set against them because of their immutable characteristic.

00:24:27.640 And if there was, I would be fighting to reverse that.

00:24:31.020 But it wasn't enough for the modern liberal that felt that tolerance should go over equality.

00:24:36.580 And that's where equity came in.

00:24:38.380 And that's where suddenly we went from gays can get married, which should have been enough.

00:24:43.720 And by the way, it was enough for a lot of gay people.

00:24:45.760 Any gay person of the gay rights movement of the 70s that just wanted to literally be able to be in the same relationship as anyone else, that were being arrested at Stonewall and everything else, that's what they were fighting for.

00:24:55.960 They weren't fighting to teach second graders about gender identity and then hide that conversation from the parent, which is happening all over the country.

00:25:03.800 And now they're making it sound like Ron DeSantis is the crazy one.

00:25:06.440 Right, the don't gay say bill.

00:25:07.960 But real quick to back up to the parental thing.

00:25:11.180 So I get that in an ideal world or in the majority, I don't want to say ideal exactly, but in the majority of the world, obviously a family is construed of a mother and a father and children and then hopefully grandparents and a wider family unit.

00:25:23.940 I think that the family can look a little bit different, but you don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.

00:25:29.660 So my husband's mom is going to be living with us for a couple of months right at the beginning because we want a strong female influence there.

00:25:36.560 And to also help us.

00:25:37.580 We don't know everything about babies and all of that stuff.

00:25:40.040 Not only that, but his sister, who has been a nanny for young children before and young toddlers, is going to be with us.

00:25:46.720 My sister, who lives in Miami, only a few miles away from us, she's pregnant right now as well, due the day before we're due.

00:25:54.500 So we intend on incorporating all of those things.

00:25:58.780 And also, you know, you talk about male, female and gender roles and all of these things.

00:26:03.420 You know, I'm not the most nurturing person in the world, actually.

00:26:07.280 Like, I like sports and video games and whatever.

00:26:10.120 I am what I am.

00:26:10.860 Like, that's what I like.

00:26:11.840 And I love what I do for a living.

00:26:13.060 And I love this, this.

00:26:15.360 My husband is actually, he has that part of him.

00:26:18.560 He has that fully nurturing, loving part of him and will be able to offer some of that.

00:26:25.320 Maybe not all that a mother would, but we're good.

00:26:27.120 But you know what?

00:26:27.600 People are born to drug addicts.

00:26:29.440 People are born in abusive relationships, all of these things.

00:26:31.800 And I'm not likening gay parenting to that at all.

00:26:34.700 But the point is that I think the structure can look a little bit different.

00:26:38.620 And the result of the society that we want to live in can actually look the same.

00:26:42.720 Or in some ways, even stronger, actually, if we can incorporate that.

00:26:46.500 I don't even remember what the question was.

00:26:47.860 But I don't know.

00:26:48.360 It was good.

00:26:49.180 That was Dave Rubin's opus right there.

00:26:51.780 Well, the interesting thing you said is you said you have more of that masculinity, right?

00:26:56.020 Like, my wife will tease.

00:26:56.980 She's like, did you hear that baby?

00:26:58.000 Like, why is that baby crying?

00:26:58.980 I'm like, I didn't even hear it.

00:26:59.860 And then we had some nieces over.

00:27:02.280 That's definitely going to be me.

00:27:02.980 And a baby was, our youngest niece was crying.

00:27:06.260 And I just kind of like looked at her.

00:27:08.440 And my wife was like, don't you feel bad?

00:27:10.880 I'm like, no.

00:27:12.680 Like, there's no, there's like, she was looking, the baby's looking at me.

00:27:16.520 I'm like, that doesn't work on me at all.

00:27:18.880 But the thing that we need to remember, or maybe your husband has more of those, what

00:27:24.780 would generally be considered feminine characteristics, it doesn't make him a woman.

00:27:29.800 No.

00:27:30.320 So that's the, and by the way, that is a really interesting point because you know what's

00:27:35.400 going to happen.

00:27:35.920 People don't, I've been trying to explain this for a while.

00:27:38.600 Do you know Douglas Murray, who's the British conservative writer?

00:27:41.380 He wrote Madness of Crowds.

00:27:43.300 Oh, I know the book.

00:27:44.280 I don't know.

00:27:44.760 He's a brilliant author.

00:27:45.900 And what he did in his last book, now he happens to be gay also.

00:27:49.200 But he's a British conservative.

00:27:51.320 And he, in his last book.

00:27:52.780 Which is more, I just want to interject just so I know, it's more of a, what we would

00:27:57.220 consider a liberal, correct?

00:27:58.400 It's more of what we would consider an old school liberal.

00:28:01.000 Okay, got it.

00:28:01.400 So it's more of what the ideas of my first book were about.

00:28:05.140 Got it.

00:28:05.660 Because their version, yeah, it's a whole other thing.

00:28:08.760 Right.

00:28:08.920 When they say liberal, they don't really mean American liberal.

00:28:11.060 And now progressives have destroyed our version of liberal.

00:28:13.680 Yep.

00:28:14.000 This is where you can start getting in the weeds with the words in it.

00:28:16.420 And it really gets nuts.

00:28:17.340 But that is an important distinction.

00:28:19.180 But in his last book, Madness of Crowds, he does a chapter on LGB, but then he does a

00:28:23.940 separate chapter on T because his argument is these things have nothing to do with each

00:28:28.000 other.

00:28:29.080 I believe that I am in the body that I am supposed to be in.

00:28:33.280 Right.

00:28:33.560 And, okay, and then I have an attraction, right?

00:28:38.160 The same way you are in the body you're supposed to be in and you have an attraction.

00:28:41.220 Right.

00:28:41.480 And that's true.

00:28:42.020 So we're not denying any biology there, right?

00:28:45.380 The trans situation is a different thing.

00:28:48.280 I'm not even commenting on what's going on in a trans person's mind.

00:28:51.080 But if they fundamentally believe they are in the wrong body, there is a biological disconnect

00:28:55.760 from the mental part.

00:28:57.400 That's just the truth.

00:28:58.220 And then in my view, as an adult, you can live however you want.

00:29:01.520 If I walk out of here and then you put on a dress and lipstick and go out, I mean, man,

00:29:05.380 it ain't going to look great.

00:29:06.680 But like, have fun, you know?

00:29:09.680 I think he's ready to go with you.

00:29:12.980 He kind of is like, yeah, let's do it.

00:29:14.220 Oh, no, we're doing that.

00:29:14.820 But when you talk about the feminine quality of some of this stuff, the reason that this

00:29:21.280 stuff is actually anti-gay, and I really believe this, Douglas hits on this a little bit.

00:29:25.420 When you say this stuff, you're talking about the trans type thing?

00:29:28.000 It's actually anti-gay because now think about it.

00:29:30.020 Now you have like, let's say, a six-year-old boy.

00:29:32.540 And the six-year-old boy, instead of being into G.I.

00:29:35.100 Joe and Transformers or whatever the kids are playing with now, the traditional boy stuff,

00:29:39.160 let's just say he likes Barbie or whatever.

00:29:41.440 However, in the mind of the wokester now, and in the mind of the teachers and the entire

00:29:46.500 system, he's not really a gay, most likely he's a gay boy.

00:29:50.360 In reality, he will grow up to be a gay man.

00:29:52.140 Maybe, sure.

00:29:52.540 Probably.

00:29:53.260 That's probable.

00:29:54.180 If he's playing with all girls' toys and all that stuff, that's probably what he is.

00:29:58.920 But in the woke mind, he's actually a girl in a boy's body.

00:30:02.840 And then they will do exactly what we know they are doing right now, which is pushing them

00:30:07.940 to transition.

00:30:08.660 And again, at the end of the day, when they're an adult or whatever it is, if they want to

00:30:13.620 transition, then so be it.

00:30:15.860 But what we are doing to minds that are not developed yet.

00:30:19.820 Right.

00:30:20.720 And so do you see why it's anti-gay, actually?

00:30:23.100 Because in a weird way, the parent-

00:30:24.580 It dismisses that, potentially.

00:30:26.140 Sure.

00:30:26.300 The parent is saying, I would rather have a daughter if my son likes Barbies than have

00:30:33.640 a gay son.

00:30:35.020 But-

00:30:35.420 So it's really complex and bizarre.

00:30:37.340 I don't know what you're saying on that.

00:30:39.080 But I disagree in that I don't know that they're thinking of it that way.

00:30:45.280 Like, I don't know they're saying, I'd rather my son be a girl than-

00:30:48.720 No, but it's the end result.

00:30:49.900 It is, but I don't think that's their intention.

00:30:51.780 I don't-

00:30:52.360 So it gets back to the intentions thing that we were talking about with Bernie, right?

00:30:55.760 So it's hard.

00:30:56.820 Like, I can't judge all of their intentions.

00:30:59.080 However, when the entire cultural machine, which is rampaging across this country right

00:31:04.900 now, is pushing trans, right?

00:31:06.700 It really is pushing.

00:31:07.620 It's like, why is it-

00:31:08.720 Why is Nickelodeon yesterday tweeting about trans this?

00:31:11.900 Right.

00:31:12.080 And then Disney wants trans that.

00:31:13.820 I mean, the entire machine's doing it, that I would argue it's almost irrelevant what

00:31:18.600 the intentions are by the parents.

00:31:20.240 If it's either, it could be their intention.

00:31:23.240 It could be in the back of their mind.

00:31:24.460 Oh, somehow I'd rather have a son who appears to be a girl so that they don't seem like a

00:31:29.480 gay boy, perhaps.

00:31:30.680 Or it's just, you're just caught up in the mob.

00:31:32.660 Yeah.

00:31:32.820 You're just caught up in the cultural mode.

00:31:34.140 I have a trans son.

00:31:34.860 I think it's more of that.

00:31:35.940 Like, it's pretty freaking cool.

00:31:36.860 I got a trans son.

00:31:37.800 Because if you look at the trajectory of trans people, it's not, there's nothing biologically

00:31:44.960 that has changed over the past, let's say, a hundred years.

00:31:47.500 Well, I thought Alex Jones said it was licking toads or something.

00:31:49.820 Wasn't that something?

00:31:50.620 Who knows?

00:31:51.400 Who knows?

00:31:52.540 It's just a very, the issue that I have is, let's take transgenderism again and say, all

00:31:57.680 right, so you have somebody that has expressed that they are not in the correct body.

00:32:04.400 And so then we have words again.

00:32:06.840 These are the words, gender reaffirming care, health care.

00:32:12.100 That's a, we go down the rabbit hole on that one.

00:32:14.440 Which the government will pay for if you're in a federal prison right now, which is bananas.

00:32:17.720 Oh, really?

00:32:18.920 Yeah.

00:32:19.340 But they won't ever address the mind.

00:32:23.860 That's where I get hung up.

00:32:25.480 It's like, okay, like maybe there's an issue.

00:32:28.580 Sure.

00:32:30.260 Why is the health not to address what's going on in the mind?

00:32:34.520 Well, what's interesting about that, and Jordan Peterson has talked about this a little

00:32:38.600 bit is, so let's say, let's say you believe that it's fully, it's fully just, it's fully

00:32:43.820 a mental, it's, well, it is.

00:32:45.960 I don't think there's an argument about that.

00:32:47.680 Let's say it's a mental condition.

00:32:49.120 So meaning, and you don't, I don't mean that necessarily in a negative sense, but let's

00:32:52.220 say you truly in your own mind believe you are the other sex than what your body tells

00:32:58.280 you.

00:32:58.480 Well, just because you transition, it doesn't mean that all your problems are going to be

00:33:03.340 solved.

00:33:03.780 You still may not look the way you want to look.

00:33:05.880 You may not feel the way you think you're magically going to feel.

00:33:08.500 You know, you could wake up the next day and have all the genitals you feel you were

00:33:12.640 supposed to have and boobs and the whole thing.

00:33:15.080 It may not solve all the problems.

00:33:17.400 And did you watch, I only watched one season of it, but did you watch the show Transparent

00:33:21.740 by any chance?

00:33:22.300 So it was about this, in essence, that this, this father of 60 years old, who was a normal

00:33:28.200 professor with a somewhat functioning family, just sort of announces he's trans and they

00:33:33.340 go through this whole thing.

00:33:35.160 And then at the end, he's starting to realize he's not happier and it's actually destroyed

00:33:39.840 a lot of things too.

00:33:40.820 I'm not saying that that's always the case, of course, but I think what they're tricking

00:33:44.760 people to think is, oh, if I can just change these external things about me, I will magically

00:33:50.000 be happier.

00:33:50.600 But, you know, you could liken it to plastic surgery in some sense, you know, if a woman

00:33:54.940 is looking in the mirror and like, if I just was more like this or more like this, like

00:33:59.260 I'll be happier.

00:33:59.880 And next thing you know, it's like, I went to Mar-a-Lago once and you go into this place

00:34:03.560 in West Palm Beach and I like those people, but it was like going into the cantina scene

00:34:06.740 in Star Wars with crazy faces.

00:34:10.100 I was like, that's Hammerhead over there.

00:34:11.740 And it just turned out to be a rich woman, you know?

00:34:16.160 Guys, let me hit the timeout button real quick on the conversation.

00:34:18.900 We'll get right back to it.

00:34:20.600 I want to ask you a question and I want you to think about this deeply.

00:34:24.620 Are you ready for all that life has to throw at you?

00:34:27.580 Are you ready for all that life has to throw at you?

00:34:30.180 Because ready or not, it's coming.

00:34:31.960 And it's always been my goal to equip you with the tools and skills that you need to thrive

00:34:36.800 in this society that is constantly working against all of us.

00:34:40.300 And that's why we've created the 30 day, 30 days to battle ready program.

00:34:45.560 Now this is a free course.

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00:34:55.900 30 days that are going to help you tackle all that you want to tackle in life.

00:34:59.960 And this isn't about what I want to attack, uh, tackle.

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00:35:29.800 So after this podcast is over, sign up for it, order of man.com slash battle ready for

00:35:35.440 now, I'll get back to it with Dave.

00:35:37.940 All right.

00:35:38.520 So I'm wondering if you ever come across this argument, because I think the, the prevailing

00:35:42.600 belief, and I don't know how long ago it was, is that, uh, being homosexual was a,

00:35:49.900 a mental illness.

00:35:51.420 Yeah.

00:35:51.600 And so I'm assuming you wouldn't say that that's the case.

00:35:55.020 I don't believe it's a mental illness.

00:35:56.400 Okay.

00:35:56.420 So yeah, I ran across that debate where a trans person will say, well, you know, people used

00:36:02.780 to believe that homosexuality was a mental disorder.

00:36:05.180 Sure.

00:36:05.480 So I don't know that I've had a trans person directly say it to me, but I'm completely fine.

00:36:10.100 And I'm glad that you asked.

00:36:11.420 I mean, I think it's worthy of talking about, and people are afraid to talk about these things.

00:36:14.880 Well, first off, the, the governing body of the American Psychiatric Association has said

00:36:19.340 that it's not.

00:36:19.780 Now let's pretend they're all insane because actually a lot of these organizations have

00:36:23.840 all gone woke and are bananas and everything else.

00:36:25.580 Very politically driven as well.

00:36:26.700 What I would argue, what I would say is that is, is being gay an outlier sexuality?

00:36:31.560 Obviously the most people, by most accounts, 90% of people are heterosexual.

00:36:37.200 There are gay giraffes.

00:36:38.700 There are gay penguins.

00:36:39.660 I mean, there's a lot of, go on YouTube, like there, these things exist in nature outside

00:36:43.620 of the human condition.

00:36:44.820 So I, I don't deny that I am a man, right?

00:36:48.200 Like, so I'm not, I'm not having one disconnect.

00:36:50.580 Nothing that is going on in my head is a disconnect of biology.

00:36:55.400 Um, and I choose to be with someone that makes me happy and fulfilled and all of those things.

00:37:02.200 Is that an outlier thing that someone may say, well, there's, this person is, well, I don't

00:37:08.600 know what you would say.

00:37:09.240 This person's crazy or deranged or, or whatever.

00:37:12.080 I actually suppose someone could say that.

00:37:15.040 And it's not for me to stop them from saying it.

00:37:17.320 The best thing, the best thing that I can do in essence is live the best life that I

00:37:20.820 can.

00:37:21.780 And, and within the construct of an American system based on individual rights and freedom,

00:37:26.820 as long as I have equal rights, I actually don't care what people say.

00:37:31.660 I really, I don't, I don't just say that like people say, I don't care what anyone says.

00:37:35.600 Well, I really don't.

00:37:36.640 Like if, if we did not have equal rights, I would have a chip on my shoulder and righteous

00:37:41.480 indignation, but we have equal rights.

00:37:44.300 And, and that's, what's also so perverse about what's going on here in Florida with the don't

00:37:48.300 say gay bill, because they're making it seem like there's an assault on gay people.

00:37:52.820 It's not.

00:37:54.260 Ron DeSantis literally sent me and my husband two onesies.

00:37:58.880 Cause we're having two kids, you know, onesies that babies wear.

00:38:01.340 He sent them, Ron, they're Ron DeSantis, like future Florida voter.

00:38:04.420 Oh, is that right?

00:38:05.580 It's like, I saw him a few days ago, introduced him to my husband.

00:38:08.860 And he immediately said, congratulations on the kids guys.

00:38:11.720 Very happy for you.

00:38:12.600 He, he, he doesn't hate gay people.

00:38:14.680 He does not want a state employee telling a six-year-old that they're not the gender that

00:38:19.840 they are while also being able to hide that from the parent.

00:38:23.820 That's what this is about.

00:38:25.240 That's what this is about.

00:38:26.200 So, so the truth, the real truth is if, if there's someone out there that has their own

00:38:31.100 personal religious belief or personal psychological belief, whatever it is they believe about gay

00:38:37.880 people or anything else, I don't care that much.

00:38:40.520 I really don't like you can't, I'm probably not going to be the best of friends, but you're

00:38:46.160 entitled to your, I believe in religious liberty.

00:38:47.920 You're entitled to your beliefs.

00:38:49.440 You, you are, you can't legislate people's lives.

00:38:52.520 That's, that's what I would say.

00:38:53.740 Yeah, no, that, that, that makes, I would never, for example, sorry, I would never force

00:38:57.500 a Mormon church to do a gay wedding.

00:38:59.640 I think maybe there are some, maybe, maybe are there any Mormon churches that do?

00:39:04.220 I'm not sure.

00:39:04.880 Well, so here's my, there's a lot of Christian churches that do there.

00:39:08.000 Can you be a Mormon and promote that?

00:39:10.920 Well, no.

00:39:12.840 Right.

00:39:13.240 Just like you can't be Catholic and believe in abortion.

00:39:16.040 You can't say I'm Catholic except for, okay, then you're not Catholic.

00:39:20.660 Now that's not to say we don't mess up and we sin and we, we have things.

00:39:23.740 We need to repent for, we do.

00:39:25.140 But you can't say you're a member of the Yankees and then go train, you know, with the

00:39:30.060 Red Sox.

00:39:30.640 Right, right.

00:39:31.540 So you're not a Yankee.

00:39:32.660 So that's one where it's a little bit of like what our idea set is versus how we live

00:39:37.680 our lives.

00:39:38.180 So I get you.

00:39:38.740 So Joe Biden will always say what a proud Catholic he is.

00:39:40.860 And then he's basically at this point as the leader of the Democratic Party is for abortions

00:39:44.680 at any point.

00:39:45.400 Right.

00:39:45.780 Like that seems, putting aside religion, that seems completely insane to me.

00:39:50.240 Trust me, as I said, we're going through surrogacy.

00:39:51.760 I'm very aware of how many weeks now the baby looks like a potato.

00:39:55.880 Now the baby looks like an, you know, an orange before that.

00:39:58.340 And it's going to look like a watermelon after that.

00:39:59.920 And the size of this, like, you cannot tell me that at five months, this is not a living

00:40:04.360 child.

00:40:05.380 And even before that, without getting too deep on that.

00:40:09.200 But so he has this real disconnect from his Catholic beliefs to the things that he puts

00:40:14.680 into policy.

00:40:15.620 But we all have some version of that, right?

00:40:17.980 We all have like, we all have like a set of ideas that we aspire to believe in, let's

00:40:22.160 say, and hopefully mostly do versus how we act.

00:40:25.580 I mean, the Catholic church may not be for gay marriage.

00:40:28.060 And then it also had the worst, most horrific sex scandals of the last 200 years.

00:40:33.620 That's not going by Catholic doctrine.

00:40:35.760 But I don't blame all Catholics for that, obviously.

00:40:38.580 Right.

00:40:38.700 So this is where, yeah, this is where all of those things come into some level of conflict.

00:40:43.840 Yeah, that's a good point.

00:40:45.100 That is.

00:40:45.260 But I would never force you to.

00:40:46.540 And we always, all of us live outside of our ideals and values at times, right?

00:40:50.740 Like, we aren't always living to who we think ourselves to be.

00:40:55.640 Yeah.

00:40:56.280 100%.

00:40:56.680 Yeah.

00:40:57.100 I would say that, I'll give you the answer that I gave Ben Shapiro on this years ago,

00:41:02.040 before Ben and I were friendly.

00:41:03.160 I think it was the first time he was on my show and we had never met before that.

00:41:06.380 And Ben is an Orthodox Jew.

00:41:07.560 So he doesn't believe in same sex marriage.

00:41:09.520 I actually heard him talk about that.

00:41:11.260 I mean, he's talked about it, but I think specifically with you, your friendship with

00:41:15.660 him, I think it was on Rogan or something that he had talked about your friendship, but

00:41:19.680 the disconnect and the beliefs there.

00:41:21.520 Yeah.

00:41:21.760 So look, so first off, again, I believe in religious liberty.

00:41:24.580 I'm not going to force an Orthodox Jew to be married to a gay guy.

00:41:29.200 And I wouldn't force a Mormon to either.

00:41:30.780 This is just such obvious stuff, right?

00:41:33.540 So what do you think you are?

00:41:36.160 If you think that you think you're a God, I don't think I'm a God.

00:41:38.940 If I was to believe that, yes, everyone must believe what I believe, like that's bad stuff,

00:41:44.660 right?

00:41:45.140 So what I said to Ben when we first discussed it was, I'm not here to convince you of anything

00:41:50.320 that you don't believe in.

00:41:53.120 The best I can do is Ben, I said, I hope we'll have these conversations for the next 60 years.

00:41:58.440 And when I'm 85 and you're 81 and I've lived a decent life and hopefully raised a family

00:42:04.040 and done it roughly right, that you'll turn to me and say, Dave, you know what?

00:42:08.060 You did all right.

00:42:09.120 And that would be enough.

00:42:10.900 Right.

00:42:11.080 That actually would be enough for me.

00:42:13.500 Otherwise, like I'm not trying.

00:42:14.980 What right do I have to tell anyone what their own personal belief system is?

00:42:19.100 I think you can do things by living a certain way and that's probably the best you could do.

00:42:25.260 Well, and even if, let's say in that case, even if he did not do that.

00:42:28.680 Yeah.

00:42:29.120 So what?

00:42:29.600 So what?

00:42:30.260 Like that doesn't, okay, so then you live the last 80 years of your life without approval

00:42:34.540 from Ben Shapiro.

00:42:36.260 And?

00:42:36.920 That's okay.

00:42:37.780 Right.

00:42:38.240 And the funny part is people will tell me, I see this from lefties all the time, Ben Shapiro

00:42:42.200 hates you.

00:42:43.000 He judges you.

00:42:43.840 We, it's like, Ben has been to my house a million times.

00:42:47.120 We're obviously allies politically, despite, you know, some, some differences.

00:42:51.240 We have some differences, including on abortion and some other stuff.

00:42:54.380 And it's like, we roughly want to live in the same country.

00:42:57.900 The people who are constantly telling me what a, you know, a self-hating gay I am and

00:43:03.560 he's an awful homophobe.

00:43:05.480 It's like, I'm not sure I want to live in the country with those people.

00:43:08.220 They're the ones constantly telling us how horrible we are for trying to bridge a divide.

00:43:12.500 Right.

00:43:12.580 That's what we're trying to do, which is what humanity is all about.

00:43:15.040 We're trying to solve something.

00:43:16.960 They're telling us how great they are while they're telling us that we're evil.

00:43:20.800 I mean, yeah.

00:43:22.060 Well, I just think that what we've gotten to in society today is just too big of an emphasis

00:43:26.520 on ourselves.

00:43:27.820 So there is individual liberties we have.

00:43:29.940 It's not what I'm talking about.

00:43:31.420 I'm talking about me placing myself the center of the universe and thinking that anything

00:43:37.060 that you disagree with me on is a direct threat to what I believe and my value system.

00:43:44.680 That's what wokeness has done more than anything else.

00:43:47.400 And you have to give it credit.

00:43:49.120 It destroyed a lot of good stuff in not that much time.

00:43:52.780 You know, people have argued there's been a slow march through the institutions and this

00:43:56.180 probably started in the 60s in colleges.

00:43:58.100 And it's only in the last, say, 10 years that it really burst forth into the insanity

00:44:02.260 that it is now.

00:44:03.560 But you got to give the devil his due.

00:44:05.160 This thing, as evil as it is, it's effective.

00:44:08.660 It's seriously effective at destroying so many things.

00:44:10.940 What would you say is the effective part of it?

00:44:12.760 Are you saying like from a marketing slash propaganda perspective?

00:44:16.860 Yeah.

00:44:17.040 So how do I take that information and apply it on other sides of the equation?

00:44:21.480 So I often compare it.

00:44:22.860 And in the book, I compare it to the alien in the original.

00:44:25.160 Remember, 1977 alien, Sigourney Weaver, the first alien movie.

00:44:28.720 She's having this debate after the alien has killed almost everyone on the ship.

00:44:32.120 And she's having this debate with the doctor on the ship who later turns out to be a robot.

00:44:37.860 And she doesn't understand.

00:44:38.960 He loves this thing.

00:44:40.000 He really admires this thing.

00:44:41.320 And she's going, what are you talking about?

00:44:42.300 It's killing everybody.

00:44:43.000 And in essence, he says, this thing is merciless.

00:44:45.760 It's remorseless.

00:44:47.040 It knows what it wants.

00:44:48.280 It's the perfect organism.

00:44:49.980 In some ways, I think you can liken wokeness to that.

00:44:52.460 It has destroyed so much.

00:44:54.480 It has brainwashed so many people.

00:44:56.620 It has run and destroyed our media institutions.

00:44:59.420 And look what it's done to Disney and all of these things that we once loved.

00:45:03.380 So the question is, how do we deprogram people from that?

00:45:07.960 I think some of the ideas in some of these books are the right way.

00:45:10.820 I think getting back to understanding what you just said, basically, that all of these people

00:45:15.800 think that because they think something, that it must be true and that they then have the

00:45:22.240 authority to then push that on everybody else.

00:45:26.740 Man, that's dangerous.

00:45:27.860 That's what all of the worst things in humanity have been done in the name of it.

00:45:33.480 I mean, what was Hitler really doing?

00:45:35.120 You know, everyone's called Hitler now and Nazis and everything else.

00:45:37.620 But what did Hitler really want?

00:45:39.500 He wanted his perfect, say, Aryan state.

00:45:43.140 But in essence, he wanted his worldview to be not only for the people of Germany, but

00:45:48.520 then he wanted, you know, he wanted greater Germany.

00:45:50.720 He wanted all of Europe and it wouldn't have stopped there.

00:45:53.640 That's what they've done.

00:45:54.780 I mean, it sounds like a crazy jump, but Hitler was just one person until he was a megalomaniac

00:46:00.160 that got a lot of decent people to do horrible things.

00:46:02.320 So all of these kids that are in essence destroying all of our universities, you know, shouting

00:46:11.500 down speakers, violently threatening people, these movements based on tolerance that break

00:46:16.600 windows and Antifa and BLM.

00:46:19.500 What have you built?

00:46:21.020 What have you guys built?

00:46:22.020 It's really easy to burn stuff.

00:46:23.560 It's not that easy to build stuff.

00:46:25.560 One of the biggest challenges, I think, is a lot of this leftist woke ideology, whatever

00:46:31.420 you want to call it, is very emotional.

00:46:34.640 It's very emotionally charged.

00:46:35.920 It's based on feelings.

00:46:37.300 You know, you even look at some of the most horrible atrocities from Hitler to what we're

00:46:41.460 seeing now to a lesser degree, obviously.

00:46:44.400 It's all based on victimhood.

00:46:46.220 You're the victim.

00:46:47.220 You know, we were victimized.

00:46:49.240 And so we're going to rise up and overcome this victimization.

00:46:52.680 And then one of the things that you said in the book, which I do like that it's very

00:46:55.660 practical because you're saying, here's what we need to do.

00:46:57.560 That's a question I get all the time.

00:46:58.880 What do we do about it?

00:46:59.740 Is that you said, and I'm paraphrasing, but, you know, you kill it with logic and reason.

00:47:05.820 And I kind of rolled my eyes a bit.

00:47:07.700 I agree with you.

00:47:08.720 Yeah, I got you.

00:47:09.260 I got you.

00:47:09.680 But how do you reason with unreasonable people?

00:47:14.820 So this is the great question of our time, because I think what happened was a certain set

00:47:19.220 of liberals thought they could reason with it.

00:47:21.460 So this is where I would say it's sort of like the Bill Maher liberals that are not bananas.

00:47:25.120 He's obviously not nuts.

00:47:26.320 He's trying to be a decent liberal, but he has no defense for this thing.

00:47:32.680 And that's why, in essence, he sounds like a conservative now.

00:47:35.600 He just basically now is saying what conservatives said five years ago, and he's saying that

00:47:39.700 he's a liberal.

00:47:40.200 It doesn't really work anymore.

00:47:41.820 I think conservatives, generally speaking, have had a better defense against this, probably

00:47:46.140 because of religion, mostly.

00:47:47.420 Because they believe that there was something outside of just the political nitty gritty and

00:47:51.360 everything that goes on during the day that they could fall back on.

00:47:55.380 So even if you look at COVID, let's say, so many people went completely insane, completely

00:48:01.520 insane, demanding that other people get injected forcibly by the government for their safety,

00:48:07.220 for a vaccine that never worked as promised.

00:48:09.420 I saw a guy get in a fight, or want to fight another guy, apparently, because he walked

00:48:16.140 too close to him and he didn't have a mask on.

00:48:17.840 Not here in Florida.

00:48:18.800 Couldn't have been in Florida.

00:48:19.000 No, no, it wasn't.

00:48:19.600 No, no.

00:48:20.120 It was a video.

00:48:20.920 Sorry.

00:48:21.260 It was something on social media.

00:48:22.740 No, not here.

00:48:23.680 That better not have been in Florida.

00:48:24.320 Actually, in Florida, when I got here, the person on the bus said, you have to have your

00:48:28.420 mask on.

00:48:28.840 I'm like, I thought we were in Florida.

00:48:30.160 Really?

00:48:30.640 In Florida?

00:48:30.780 This was at the airport.

00:48:32.020 So maybe it was still part of the airport or something.

00:48:34.800 I don't know.

00:48:35.160 So that's one of the things that I know DeSantis is really trying to fight right now.

00:48:38.600 I think that's the next fight on the horizon is they still have not let this BS go on the

00:48:43.080 airplanes and at the airports.

00:48:44.960 You know, I'll tell you, since COVID started, I swear to you, every single time I get off

00:48:50.540 the plane, I take the mask off and walk through the airport without a mask, and I have never

00:48:54.140 once been confronted.

00:48:55.720 Because that's the other twisted part of what they've done.

00:48:57.740 We're all policing each other.

00:48:59.060 Right.

00:48:59.500 We're all, but we're also not policing each other.

00:49:02.460 That's the funny thing.

00:49:03.240 And we're all kind of behaving because we don't want to be called out.

00:49:06.860 And on the other hand, if you just go against the thing, nobody really, you know, every

00:49:11.000 now and again, you'll get the Karen yelling at you or something.

00:49:12.480 I had one person at an airport one time.

00:49:14.520 I was walking out.

00:49:15.160 I was actually walking out.

00:49:16.020 I didn't have my mask on.

00:49:17.100 Sir, you need to have a mask on.

00:49:18.100 I said, go away.

00:49:18.760 Leave me alone.

00:49:19.680 And he put his head down and walked off.

00:49:23.340 I'll tell you a good one.

00:49:24.080 He said, get out of here.

00:49:25.020 I go to, so I've been in Florida for about four months.

00:49:27.780 And last month I had to go to LA for one day.

00:49:30.620 And I really did not want to go, but I was taping a PragerU video and I love those guys.

00:49:34.980 And I had to go for literally one day and we get off the plane.

00:49:39.000 I take my mask off.

00:49:39.800 I'm walking through the airport and I go to Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf.

00:49:42.540 It's like a Starbucks kind of thing.

00:49:44.180 And I don't have my mask on.

00:49:45.400 And I said to the girl, could I have a medium iced coffee?

00:49:48.700 And she looked at me and she said, you have to put your mask on.

00:49:51.720 I can't serve you if you don't have your mask.

00:49:53.260 But meanwhile, she's behind glass and everything else at the airport.

00:49:56.320 And I said to her, I swear to you, I said this to her.

00:49:58.400 It was two days after the State of the Union.

00:50:00.660 And I said, ma'am, I don't know if you saw the State of the Union, but Joe Biden, who

00:50:04.760 I believe is 78 years old, was in a room with no windows, with all of those geriatric

00:50:09.360 people.

00:50:09.820 And they were kissing and hugging and sniffing hair.

00:50:11.540 I said it exactly like, I said it exactly like that.

00:50:14.220 And I kid you not, she looked at me.

00:50:16.800 I got to, which camera am I looking into here?

00:50:18.300 Where do you want me to look over here?

00:50:19.080 She looked at me and she went like this.

00:50:22.220 Her eye, like I broke her.

00:50:23.780 Her eyes actually crossed.

00:50:25.120 Like she couldn't, it was like such a crazy thing that I said to her.

00:50:29.160 She could, she was like, uh, we cannot serve you unless like went into like full on robot

00:50:34.140 mode.

00:50:34.700 And I was like, I have to get, I'm going to curse the fuck out of this town.

00:50:39.100 Yes.

00:50:39.900 Because it's so insane.

00:50:41.560 Yeah.

00:50:41.860 I, it is, it is a wild, wild thing to see so many people comply with something they know

00:50:47.780 is not correct.

00:50:49.160 Yeah.

00:50:49.440 Oh, sorry.

00:50:49.900 So the point, the point of all that was that I have found consistently, I'd love to know

00:50:54.260 your thoughts on this, that people who are some level of believer, doesn't matter what

00:50:59.560 they believe in.

00:51:00.260 I'm not even prescribing this to a specific religion in way less numbers went crazy over

00:51:06.620 COVID than non-believers.

00:51:09.020 Meaning that the atheists, the rationalists, the science worshipers, they all went crazy.

00:51:15.220 And in some ways you can't blame them.

00:51:16.460 They turned Fauci into God.

00:51:17.940 They turned the CDC into the Temple Mount and, and congratulations, you all went crazy

00:51:23.360 because they changed their rules every given day.

00:51:25.380 Right.

00:51:25.480 So people who said, oh, I don't worship these things.

00:51:28.580 You know, I have whatever my set of beliefs are, um, didn't go crazy in that.

00:51:32.800 That, that kind of tells you something.

00:51:34.640 I think, I think what that is, I could be wrong because I haven't really thought about

00:51:38.840 this question is that I believe that most of these types of religions, uh, worship a

00:51:44.380 God that says we have given you, uh, uh, autonomy over your own life, free will.

00:51:50.420 So you have to choose what's best for yourself.

00:51:53.220 Now here's, here's a, here's a code that you should follow.

00:51:56.480 This is God's plan, his code that you should follow.

00:51:59.040 And that lives to a pro leads to a prosperous life and eternal life.

00:52:01.680 This is all religions.

00:52:03.220 Yeah.

00:52:03.540 But you get to decide.

00:52:06.140 And that isn't the religion of the government.

00:52:08.000 You don't get to decide.

00:52:09.380 So in a way, when the government goes crazy, that basically gives you a little bit of a

00:52:13.460 force field.

00:52:14.220 Some people's force field is much stronger and they were really able to stay sane throughout

00:52:18.120 this.

00:52:18.800 And some people really went nuts.

00:52:20.960 I would also liken this to a little bit of the Trump stuff.

00:52:23.240 It was like, there was a certain set of people who, if you only believe in the here

00:52:26.900 and now, and you only believe that what the government says is the way the world is.

00:52:31.320 And then this orange man comes in and he tweets a lot and he says funny things and we grabbed

00:52:36.080 this woman and you know, whatever, or at least he said he grabbed a woman.

00:52:39.440 No one even knows that he did it.

00:52:41.380 It's like, I could see how you'd go nuts if you just believe that was it.

00:52:45.620 But if you believe something else is going on, you actually might be a little calmer about

00:52:50.040 the whole thing.

00:52:50.460 And I think that's one of the reasons I didn't go nuts.

00:52:53.800 To me at this point, I like anyone that didn't go nuts over the last few years.

00:52:57.580 If you like, be normal.

00:52:59.080 If you're within 10% of saying, you know, you don't have to be 90% there.

00:53:03.540 If you're just hanging around on one side of saying, like I'm pretty much with you at

00:53:08.060 this point, but so many people went so crazy and we got to do some of the work to bring

00:53:11.680 some of them back.

00:53:12.680 What do you, uh, do you think Trump will run again?

00:53:14.760 I know you, you personally know Trump.

00:53:16.240 Do you think he's going to run for office or president?

00:53:18.460 Look, everyone around him that I know is saying he's going to run.

00:53:21.320 Really?

00:53:21.680 I think that in some ways it would be best if he doesn't.

00:53:27.660 I agree with that.

00:53:28.640 So I think you can make arguments both ways.

00:53:30.100 So I'll give you both.

00:53:30.900 So one, the argument for it is that he still has so much energy around him.

00:53:35.880 So much of the base around him, the rallies, the entire, if he ran, it upends the entire

00:53:41.560 thing again.

00:53:42.300 Once again, even more so probably.

00:53:43.960 Yeah, even more in a way, it opens up all these wounds about the Twitter ban and all

00:53:49.040 of these things.

00:53:49.640 It actually might be such a shock to the system that it's exactly what we need.

00:53:53.940 And that since no one else can do that, that's the argument for him.

00:53:57.820 The argument against him, I think, is more robust because the argument against him is

00:54:01.200 many levels.

00:54:01.920 It's on one, would the system ever let him win?

00:54:05.080 Which I don't want to get us banned from YouTube or, you know, podcast platforms or

00:54:09.040 anyone else.

00:54:09.320 But would the system let him win?

00:54:10.360 That's number one.

00:54:10.780 Number two, Biden, who obviously has dementia and is hated and with all of the problems

00:54:16.640 that we have with gas prices and inflation and everything going on in Russia and Ukraine

00:54:20.700 and disaster of Afghanistan and the list goes on and on.

00:54:23.240 He's so wounded and Kamala is so hated and obviously inept that their voter turnout is going

00:54:30.300 to be seriously depressed.

00:54:31.860 It's diminished.

00:54:32.640 Right.

00:54:32.800 But what would increase it?

00:54:35.280 Having Trump run.

00:54:36.260 You get Trump to run magically five more million people.

00:54:39.000 Bam.

00:54:39.440 Right.

00:54:39.880 Appear out of nowhere.

00:54:40.720 Right.

00:54:41.440 So that, I think, is a major issue, too.

00:54:44.020 Third is if Trump honestly believes the election was stolen, if that's truly his position, unless

00:54:49.420 you've done work to solve that problem, your candidacy makes no sense.

00:54:54.140 Walking right back into it.

00:54:55.140 It makes no sense.

00:54:56.080 So I think he has a series of problems.

00:54:58.900 DeSantis is obviously the best guy for the job and he's fighting through the machine

00:55:04.500 right now.

00:55:05.120 He's in training right now.

00:55:06.820 He really is.

00:55:07.460 If this is Rocky IV, this is him in Moscow, you know.

00:55:11.160 Yeah, I think he's learned.

00:55:12.100 I mean, obviously everybody's watched him and I think he's learning and I think he's testing

00:55:16.780 and experimenting with his messaging.

00:55:20.120 From what I see, it tends to be on.

00:55:22.260 I think the thing that DeSantis has for him is that he's just as much of a fighter as

00:55:27.060 Trump is without all the baggage and bullshit that Trump has.

00:55:30.500 I totally agree.

00:55:32.120 And look, the question will be ultimately, as a Floridian, I want him to crush his election

00:55:37.320 in a few months.

00:55:38.360 You know, he's up for re-election right now.

00:55:39.900 Every marker points that he's going to win in like an extraordinary landslide.

00:55:44.000 I want that to then model across the country.

00:55:46.380 So sort of like Yunkin winning in Virginia was a signal to the country.

00:55:49.920 Hey, we're going to fight critical race theory.

00:55:51.880 Well, now DeSantis winning by a landslide could be a signal to the country.

00:55:55.320 Red state governors that are strong will win.

00:55:58.000 Then you get some other wins elsewhere.

00:55:59.640 Okay, now we've got something cooking.

00:56:01.440 While the blue states continue to just impel themselves, willingly just stab themselves

00:56:06.000 in the heart.

00:56:07.680 If he wins by a landslide, really solidifies what's going on here in Florida, which is the

00:56:12.980 tip of the spear of freedom in the world right now.

00:56:14.900 It really is.

00:56:16.460 Then if he feels, okay, this place is in good hands.

00:56:19.860 Either my lieutenant governor, I met her the other night.

00:56:22.120 She's really, really great.

00:56:23.820 Or we figure out that Mayor Suarez in Miami, who I think is fantastic, he's going to be

00:56:29.200 the heir apparent.

00:56:29.940 And we're going to really, all within the legal confines of the system.

00:56:32.660 Sure, right, right.

00:56:33.140 You figure out what the future of Florida is going to be.

00:56:36.100 And then he says, this is my moment.

00:56:38.180 Let's roll.

00:56:38.680 I'm doing it, yeah.

00:56:39.260 I think that works.

00:56:41.520 That being said, I know this sounds a little weird, but in some ways I care more about

00:56:45.720 Florida than the country right now.

00:56:47.080 I don't mean that because I don't love this country.

00:56:49.040 I freaking love this country.

00:56:50.520 But the system was set up so that the states were supposed to matter way more.

00:56:54.740 That's how it was supposed to be 200 years ago.

00:56:56.700 And Florida is proving that right now.

00:56:59.340 I mean, trust me, I lived in California for eight years.

00:57:02.220 California is a different country than Florida.

00:57:04.260 No doubt.

00:57:04.660 We happen to be under the banner of the United States right now.

00:57:07.880 But at this point, what really is uniting us?

00:57:10.720 It's very hard to say.

00:57:12.360 Yeah, I agree.

00:57:13.400 And I think the states are designed that way, but it isn't happening that way.

00:57:19.140 And the federal government is constantly grasping for more power through executive order,

00:57:24.460 through all sorts of things that we see, manipulation of all this kind of thing.

00:57:28.140 It's a very frustrating thing.

00:57:29.500 But I can see where you're coming from is not even being selfish, but where is he going

00:57:33.520 to do the most good?

00:57:34.780 Where?

00:57:35.260 Yeah.

00:57:35.580 And also, you know, look, if you look at this as an ideological war, if we were in a physical

00:57:39.180 war right now, you know, there's tactical retreat.

00:57:42.060 There are times when you go on the offense more.

00:57:44.060 There's times when you protect home base more.

00:57:46.440 You have to really think through all of those things.

00:57:49.060 And I think that would be it.

00:57:50.520 You know, it was sort of like, remember at the beginning of COVID when Trump kept saying,

00:57:53.660 you know, I'm going to let the states decide.

00:57:55.380 Every state has different things.

00:57:57.080 Florida, it's warm in Florida, but they have the second oldest population and it's more

00:58:00.500 dispersed than say New York City metropolitan area, which is more seasonal and people are

00:58:04.940 living on top of each other.

00:58:06.120 Let the states figure it out.

00:58:07.380 There isn't one solution.

00:58:08.480 If it's all the same people who thought he was orange Hitler were demanding that he take

00:58:14.160 more power to the federal government to force the states to do things.

00:58:17.660 Right.

00:58:18.460 Right.

00:58:18.760 None of it made any sense, but because everyone decided that, what do you believe?

00:58:23.280 Well, I believe whatever Trump doesn't believe.

00:58:25.240 Exactly.

00:58:25.800 That's not a belief system.

00:58:27.300 That will make you pretty freaking crazy.

00:58:29.400 Yes.

00:58:29.940 Yeah.

00:58:30.100 Well, especially if you're, because who knows what he's thinking.

00:58:33.380 Yeah.

00:58:33.580 And he can be this one day and this the other day.

00:58:35.780 And so if you're basing it on that, you're all over the place.

00:58:37.980 Wasn't that maybe the magic to him that he realized he could get his opponents to say

00:58:42.920 anything.

00:58:43.860 Yes.

00:58:44.640 Anything.

00:58:45.320 He could get them to backtrack on any heartfelt position just because he took that.

00:58:49.960 Look, everyone used to be for peace in the Middle East.

00:58:52.040 This was like the thing, right?

00:58:53.760 Who was against peace?

00:58:54.880 Suddenly he literally gets Israel to sign, I think, eight peace deals.

00:58:58.300 And supposedly there were about 12 more.

00:58:59.920 I mean, literally like 12 more on the way.

00:59:02.580 He gets that to happen.

00:59:03.320 And suddenly everyone in every think tank, Washington Post, New York Times, these are all fake.

00:59:07.920 And actually peace doesn't make sense because it's like, man, you people.

00:59:12.160 So let's pivot a little bit.

00:59:14.420 There was one part in the book and I can't remember the name of it.

00:59:18.500 I think you called it the lesbian poverty trap.

00:59:21.760 Is that right?

00:59:22.680 18th century lesbian poetry trap.

00:59:24.440 Yes.

00:59:24.680 Yes.

00:59:25.300 Yes.

00:59:25.860 There's a lesbian poverty trap too.

00:59:27.680 That's something else.

00:59:28.580 Yes.

00:59:28.940 Tell me about that.

00:59:30.440 Because I read that and I was very curious about this particular topic.

00:59:36.680 The essence of the chapter is that you better know some things and go get educated on some

00:59:42.640 things.

00:59:43.080 If you go to college to get learned on 18th century lesbian poetry.

00:59:48.360 Not poverty.

00:59:49.080 Not poverty.

00:59:49.560 But go to get learned on 18th century lesbian poverty, which I'm sure was a thing.

00:59:54.640 You know, that must have been something.

00:59:55.840 I don't know.

00:59:56.400 I don't know if I want to Google and do things like that.

00:59:59.400 You don't want to Google image search that.

01:00:01.100 That's a whole other thing.

01:00:01.880 But in essence, it's that if you go to school to learn things that apply in no way to a

01:00:10.040 real life, a life of substance and meaning that you'll be able to do something, like

01:00:14.120 literally be able to change a tire or something that will be applicable to the world, you're

01:00:21.080 going to end up being frustrated and angry and ridiculous.

01:00:24.740 Somebody said, I saw somebody on a podcast a couple of weeks ago made a point that, I wish

01:00:30.520 I could remember who it was, but the basic point was the young people now.

01:00:34.360 So you're 16 to, let's say, right out of college right now.

01:00:37.520 You're something like 16 to 21.

01:00:39.160 They can't do anything.

01:00:40.760 They don't know how to change a tire.

01:00:42.660 They couldn't do the most basic plumbing or, you know, if you had a little roofing problem

01:00:47.760 or whatever.

01:00:48.200 I'm not saying I'm the best.

01:00:49.780 I really do like doing house projects.

01:00:51.320 So I'm pretty good at that kind of stuff.

01:00:53.000 But I'm not the most.

01:00:54.320 But these people couldn't do the basic gardening.

01:00:56.280 Like literally, like you got a seed.

01:00:59.100 How are you going to make it into a tomato?

01:01:00.960 Like they would not have the basic understanding of break up the roots and get some good soil

01:01:05.520 in there and, you know, get a trellis.

01:01:07.440 So that really is what the essence of the chapter is, that we have all of these people that are

01:01:11.560 spending this money on these degrees of nothingness.

01:01:14.720 And not only that, they're going into debt and then they get out of college.

01:01:17.740 Now you've got debt.

01:01:18.740 You have a degree that's literally worthless.

01:01:20.340 But meanwhile, some kid who went to a trade school or somebody who actually studied engineering,

01:01:25.200 they can do an awful lot of stuff.

01:01:27.120 So the trap is that the system basically said that getting a four-year degree is the most

01:01:32.820 important thing out there.

01:01:33.580 And it's just not true.

01:01:34.580 Actually, in that chapter, I go into who he was at my time.

01:01:38.820 My intern, Phoenix is his name.

01:01:41.380 He had said to me while he was interning for me that, you know, he loves what he's doing

01:01:45.800 and he's about to go back to school.

01:01:47.080 And I said to him, forget school.

01:01:49.300 You're great, man.

01:01:50.520 Just stay here.

01:01:51.300 I'm going to give you a full-time job.

01:01:52.440 You're going to make real money.

01:01:53.400 We treat you great and you're fantastic at what you do.

01:01:56.540 He said, no, no, I really feel like I have to go back.

01:01:58.500 Well, this didn't get in the book because then I finished the book, but he's now my associate

01:02:02.120 producer.

01:02:02.640 He dropped out of school.

01:02:03.400 Oh, he did.

01:02:03.660 Yeah, it's a beautiful thing.

01:02:05.080 He dropped out of school and the guy's awesome.

01:02:07.400 Right.

01:02:07.560 And he moved here and he's living a great life and his friends are all going into debt.

01:02:12.120 He's now got a great job and doing great things.

01:02:14.700 And that's, so the trap is that they sell you this thing.

01:02:17.180 They selling you, they're selling you a broken product and they're selling you need this

01:02:21.340 broken product and it's broken and you don't need it.

01:02:24.660 Yeah.

01:02:25.160 And that, that is the very interesting, you don't need it.

01:02:27.720 And I think people would say in this instance that, uh, what did you say his name was?

01:02:32.760 Phoenix.

01:02:33.260 Phoenix.

01:02:33.780 That, uh, Phoenix is taking a risk by doing that.

01:02:37.460 It's like, well, yes.

01:02:38.920 Yes.

01:02:39.240 That is, that is, there is a risk inherent in that.

01:02:42.360 And if it doesn't work out with you, it's not like he doesn't have a skillset that isn't

01:02:46.420 marketable somewhere else.

01:02:47.900 Uh, but I think the greater risk is going to these colleges and getting a degree in nothing

01:02:55.580 and nobody's hiring and nobody cares about that 18th century lesbian poetry or whatever,

01:03:03.100 whatever the degree.

01:03:03.860 I would not be surprised if that's a real degree, actually.

01:03:07.380 I mean, I'm guessing it's not that far off.

01:03:09.960 We didn't, we didn't double check, but I'm guessing it's not.

01:03:12.460 But I'll tell you this, you know, when we, when we've been hiring over the last few months,

01:03:17.140 um, when people send us the resumes, the college is irrelevant.

01:03:21.480 Yeah, I bet.

01:03:21.980 And actually, if they didn't go to college, that starts looking as a leg up to me.

01:03:25.800 Cause if I see someone that at 17 actually was like, no, I worked in a shop for a while

01:03:29.680 and, or I worked at my dad's store and I was in the back, whatever.

01:03:33.820 All right.

01:03:34.300 Wow.

01:03:34.620 You're functional.

01:03:35.580 There's some stuff that you can do.

01:03:37.620 We've had a running joke with my guys.

01:03:39.280 Like the idea that I would ever hire someone from an Ivy league school.

01:03:42.780 I went to Harvard.

01:03:43.980 So I'm, it's like, okay.

01:03:45.960 Yeah.

01:03:46.580 Congratulations.

01:03:46.940 You spent an awful lot of money to probably learn all the wrong ideas.

01:03:50.800 You cannot come work for me.

01:03:52.160 You showed me you're a poor decision maker.

01:03:54.180 Yeah.

01:03:54.460 Unless you're a doctor.

01:03:55.460 Okay.

01:03:55.780 I get it.

01:03:56.660 Yeah.

01:03:57.000 And, and you know what?

01:03:57.760 Honestly, even if you're a doctor or I don't even know what Harvard specializes in at this

01:04:01.120 point, it's hard to, I know they specialize in racism against Asian people, but besides,

01:04:04.800 besides that, um, yeah, it just wouldn't mean anything to me.

01:04:08.540 It just wouldn't.

01:04:09.800 Well, so, uh, obviously you guys can pick up a copy of the book, which I highly recommend

01:04:14.280 in addition to don't burn this book.

01:04:16.460 This is the followup.

01:04:17.320 I'm looking forward to the third book as well.

01:04:19.100 Don't.

01:04:19.800 Well, hopefully I don't have to write the third book.

01:04:21.980 Don't burn this.

01:04:22.820 Don't burn this world.

01:04:23.760 Right.

01:04:23.940 That's what it's gotta be.

01:04:24.840 I mean, don't burn this planet.

01:04:26.400 I'm pretty sure we can safely assume that it's coming.

01:04:30.180 It's coming.

01:04:31.080 It's coming.

01:04:31.800 Can I say, by the way, before we finish up, you're probably the only guy in all of Miami

01:04:35.500 wearing a flannel shirt.

01:04:36.940 There you go.

01:04:37.640 I mean, there is no, I don't even think you can buy flannel legally in free Florida.

01:04:42.080 It's humid out there.

01:04:43.260 I wear boots.

01:04:43.280 I wear jeans.

01:04:44.640 I cranked up the AC.

01:04:46.820 This is how I roll.

01:04:48.060 Ironically, this is like sort of, I don't even have anything.

01:04:50.480 This is sort of flannel issue.

01:04:51.940 I am wearing boots too.

01:04:53.040 I don't have anything that looks like I belong in Miami because I live in Maine.

01:04:56.440 Like, why would I have that?

01:04:57.200 You gotta get a, like a, like a pink or aqua.

01:04:59.940 You know, that's like the colors around here.

01:05:01.180 They love the pink and aqua.

01:05:02.100 Yeah, I don't know.

01:05:02.500 I don't know if I can pull that off.

01:05:03.640 You can't do it?

01:05:04.280 I mean, I can try.

01:05:05.120 You like the mustard yellow and the black.

01:05:06.620 I do.

01:05:06.900 That's what I'm going for.

01:05:07.940 That's your thing.

01:05:08.360 Well, tell us where to connect with you.

01:05:10.300 I know you have a tour coming up as well.

01:05:12.740 I'm a broadcasting professional.

01:05:14.280 So, I'm here right over there.

01:05:15.100 Right there.

01:05:15.480 Go to DaveRubin.com slash events.

01:05:18.120 I'm touring for the next month.

01:05:19.660 I'll be in New York and Cali and doing a bunch here in Florida and Texas.

01:05:23.980 I got Glenn Beck joining me and Megan Kelly.

01:05:26.120 Don Jr. is joining me in West Palm.

01:05:27.780 Saw that.

01:05:28.320 Larry Elder, Dennis Prager, a whole bunch of people.

01:05:30.800 You get a free book with the tickets.

01:05:32.740 DaveRubin.com slash events.

01:05:34.500 We'll sync it all up for the guys.

01:05:35.640 Dave, appreciate you.

01:05:36.580 Really good to do this in person.

01:05:37.780 I enjoyed it.

01:05:38.380 The last one was good, but this one's even better.

01:05:39.660 You know what?

01:05:40.000 Thank you for dragging me out.

01:05:41.400 Of course.

01:05:41.680 And you really made a point.

01:05:42.780 You wanted to do it in person.

01:05:43.780 It was enjoyable.

01:05:44.420 I did.

01:05:44.740 And I always enjoy these better than the virtual ones.

01:05:47.320 It's just the dynamics different.

01:05:48.620 So, appreciate you.

01:05:49.860 Thanks a lot.

01:05:50.280 Right on.

01:05:50.400 Let's see if I can reach you over the microphone.

01:05:52.920 All right, you guys.

01:05:53.640 There you go.

01:05:54.020 My conversation with the one and only Dave Rubin.

01:05:56.340 I had the privilege of being able to sit down with him face-to-face this time in, where

01:06:00.560 were we?

01:06:00.920 Florida.

01:06:01.920 And had a really, really powerful discussion.

01:06:04.060 Even though, obviously, you heard it.

01:06:05.680 We didn't agree on every particular subject.

01:06:08.560 We come from different backgrounds, but these are the kind of conversations that we as men

01:06:12.700 need to be having so we can come up with some mutual results, some things that we want

01:06:19.700 to have happen, not only in our lives, but the lives of the people that we care about.

01:06:23.460 So, make sure you pick up a copy of Dave's new book, Don't Burn This Country.

01:06:27.940 Make sure you connect with Dave and me on Instagram and Twitter.

01:06:32.060 And right now, before you close this thing out, just take a screenshot very, very quickly

01:06:35.920 and post it up on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram.

01:06:39.040 Tag me at Ryan Mickler on all those accounts.

01:06:43.420 And please share what you are learning and who you're learning from.

01:06:48.220 Because if we have something to share with people, then I feel like it's our obligation

01:06:51.180 to put it out into the world.

01:06:52.640 So, do your part.

01:06:53.860 Leave a rating and review, if you would.

01:06:56.220 And then also check out our show sponsors, OriginUSA at OriginUSA.com.

01:07:02.100 Use the code ORDER at checkout.

01:07:04.700 All right, guys.

01:07:05.540 That's all we've got for you today.

01:07:06.780 We'll be back tomorrow for our Ask Me Anything.

01:07:08.900 But until then, go out there, take action, and become the man you are meant to be.

01:07:13.460 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

01:07:16.320 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:07:19.940 We invite you to join the Order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - April 12, 2022

DAVE RUBIN ｜ Thriving in Our Woke Dystopia

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