Order of Man - DAVID MEESSEN ｜ The Work of Building Attraction

00:00:00.220 It's no secret that most men want to find love in life and someone they can partner with throughout life.

00:00:06.400 But the reality is that far fewer men are doing the work required than ever before.

00:00:11.340 And for those who are actively looking for love, many of them are just floundering when it comes to approaching women and building interest that could potentially lead to a long-term relationship.

00:00:22.080 But David Meeson is a man who has made it his life's work to help men understand why they struggle and why society at large seems to be continually stacking the deck against the type of relationships that men listening to this podcast are looking for.

00:00:39.420 Today, we talk about why men seem to be so intimidated in approaching women, the skills, and they are learnable skills that you can develop to have a more successful dating life.

00:00:49.320 Why what he calls progressive desensitization, sorry, the tongue twister, is such a valuable option in love and in life.

00:00:59.700 The alarming statistics around romantic relationships and young men's increasing aversion to them and how radical honesty, not overly agreeableness, is what creates attraction.

00:01:12.700 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest.

00:01:15.700 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:01:18.380 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:01:23.040 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:01:28.140 This is your life. This is who you are.

00:01:30.640 This is who you will become.

00:01:32.360 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:39.080 All right, man, welcome back to the Order of Man podcast.

00:01:42.120 I've been looking to this one or forward to this one for some time.

00:01:45.340 We had David on a couple of years ago, just about, and it did really, really well, resonated well with a lot of guys.

00:01:54.780 And I know there was some valuable feedback and insight that many men, based on the emails and texts that I received, that they got from this conversation.

00:02:02.500 So I reached out to David not too long ago, and I asked that he come back on because this is a topic that seems to be increasingly worse, and that's men entering the dating space.

00:02:14.860 The statistics are wild, and we get into some of the statistics on this podcast, and by the way, speaking of the podcast, that's what we do here.

00:02:22.240 If there's a topic or a conversation or something that's interesting to you, then it's my job to secure those guests, bring them on, try to ask good questions as best I can,

00:02:33.860 and get good answers from all of my guests that you can actually apply in your life.

00:02:37.680 We are bridging the gap between what we as men know and what we actually do.

00:02:41.760 So this one is no different. Now, before I get to it, as I mentioned every single week, my friends over at Montana Knife Company, they make knives, and they make good knives, and they make American-made knives, and they're all good people up there.

00:02:55.600 I've got some hunts coming up later this summer and moving into the fall that I'm very excited about, and I always, always carry a Montana Knife Company knife with me.

00:03:05.540 Or if I'm in the kitchen preparing meal for my kids, or just an everyday carry, they've got them all.

00:03:11.760 So check them out, montananifecompany.com. And if you end up picking up a knife, or a shirt, or a hat, or a whatever, they've got all sorts of stuff over there,

00:03:20.080 then use the code ORDEROMAN to save some money. Again, montananifecompany.com. Use the code ORDEROMAN.

00:03:26.140 Now let me introduce you to David. He is a certified life and executive coach.

00:03:30.820 He specializes in helping high-achieving men find meaningful and lasting relationships.

00:03:36.700 He's been on his own personal journey through social anxiety, like many of us have, and also a failed marriage.

00:03:44.200 But he developed a practical, very mindset-driven coaching system that is designed to empower professionals

00:03:51.420 to overcome their dating challenges and build genuine connections.

00:03:54.980 He's got a proven four-step process. He's guided over 300 clients across more than 30 countries towards finding fulfilling partnerships.

00:04:04.240 And he's also got a social media following now. This was not the case two years ago.

00:04:09.000 Now exceeding 2 million people. He shares insights on dating and confidence and communication and his approach,

00:04:17.940 which I actually value his approach because it emphasizes authenticity, clarity, effective communication over these superficial tactics.

00:04:29.200 And that's really what separates him from traditional dating coaches or your typical pickup artist. Enjoy this one, guys.

00:04:37.880 Vavid, what's up, man? Great to see you. It's been a while.

00:04:40.740 Likewise, Ryan. Thank you for having me.

00:04:43.340 Yeah, I'm looking forward to this conversation.

00:04:44.960 I was actually looking at some statistics and I've seen this even just over the past couple of months of they're a bit alarming and they're also a bit disturbing.

00:04:53.600 And I think the statistics that we see in declining rates of men dating, men getting married, and even having men having kids is not just an individual problem.

00:05:06.960 I actually think it's a societal problem that we might be facing as well.

00:05:11.120 Yeah, I think so.

00:05:12.120 I think it's macro and micro.

00:05:13.620 I always come from it from an individual perspective because I think individual responsibility is the most important component.

00:05:20.700 But society at large, of course, men are not necessarily encouraged to go and introduce themselves.

00:05:26.440 There's a lot of barriers.

00:05:27.560 Social media can be a great tool or if used passively, people swipe right, they don't get the results they want, and then their self-esteem plummets because they think they're not desirable.

00:05:37.180 Yeah, well, and that's actually a good way to segue into one of the statistics that I saw.

00:05:43.180 This one's more anecdotal.

00:05:44.660 You probably have the data to back this up, but it seems like I remember seeing something like 90% of the women are pursuing 10% of the men.

00:05:54.640 It's probably even worse than that.

00:05:55.820 It's probably 95% of the women on these dating apps or maybe just in life are pursuing 10% to 5% of the men out there, which makes it really intimidating for a lot of guys.

00:06:06.020 Yeah, I don't have the exact data on it, but it's probably 80-20, 90-10, 95-5, 100%.

00:06:11.940 But on dating apps, first of all, what I say to guys is you're not competing with most men.

00:06:16.360 Yeah, there are some men that are genetically gifted beyond belief.

00:06:19.960 They can have average pictures, and because they're 6'4 and perfect looking, they're going to get better results.

00:06:25.300 That's just a matter of fact.

00:06:26.660 But if you just get really good pictures taken, professional pictures, good outfits, you build a good profile, you can get good results.

00:06:33.480 Now, I do say as a disclaimer, there are some men, and this is going to sound horrible, who are just – their face is objectively not that attractive looking, okay?

00:06:43.420 I just say that –

00:06:44.000 You're talking about me.

00:06:44.900 I get it.

00:06:45.320 Just say it.

00:06:45.940 Just come out and say it.

00:06:47.120 How could you with that hair color?

00:06:50.360 That's true.

00:06:51.180 That is true.

00:06:52.420 No, but I think there are some men who are just genetically not that fortunate for whom dating apps won't work.

00:06:59.440 That's a fact.

00:07:00.180 It would be a lie to say that they work for everybody.

00:07:02.360 I would say for most men, they work.

00:07:04.500 They can find a quality relationship from them.

00:07:05.960 But these other guys, they just have to rely on in-person approaches because if you're very charismatic and very confident, that can – you can talk away your face, so to speak.

00:07:18.020 So I'm a big fan of believing that we're in the best times ever.

00:07:22.560 But there are challenges at large.

00:07:24.440 But dating apps are too like a spoon.

00:07:26.600 A spoon doesn't work for me because I can't cook with it.

00:07:28.620 I don't know how to use it, but that doesn't mean that spoons as a whole don't work.

00:07:33.720 And dating apps also.

00:07:34.820 We only need to spend 15 minutes a day on them.

00:07:37.660 Those apps, they're engineered to give you short-term quick dopamine spikes, but not necessarily in a way to – what's the purpose of these apps?

00:07:48.180 To make money.

00:07:49.040 Okay.

00:07:49.180 How do you make money by getting a lot of users onto the platform and keeping them on the platform?

00:07:54.620 What are the most important users?

00:07:56.020 Women, just like nightclubs.

00:07:57.300 Women get in for free and then men follow, right?

00:08:00.120 So they want to provide the best experience for women.

00:08:02.980 How do they do that?

00:08:03.720 They're trying to match women with men who are on the same level.

00:08:07.500 Now, who gets to determine that?

00:08:08.460 Everybody has an invisible account score associated with their profile.

00:08:11.540 How many women swipe right on you, for example, or who swipes right on you determines your account score.

00:08:15.960 So they're trying to match each other up and then if you don't have a good profile, for example, your first picture is not that great.

00:08:23.960 Your facial expressions are a bit off.

00:08:25.300 You can actually engineer it authentically and yet still effectively.

00:08:29.000 If you don't do that, then your account score goes low and you wonder, first of all, I don't even think the woman that I want is on dating apps.

00:08:34.760 Well, she exists in the real world and a lot of them also exist on dating apps.

00:08:38.480 But we have to be so careful to not tie up our self-esteem in our dating app results because they say nothing about our desirability as a man.

00:08:45.080 And I think most men, they are good men, kind men, right?

00:08:50.420 To varying levels of success, but they're working on themselves.

00:08:53.820 But their communication of themselves is not that great.

00:08:58.360 And you know that you can have a great product.

00:09:00.440 If it's not marketed well, it'll die on the shelf.

00:09:03.160 Yeah, I think dating apps, well, probably just even approaches in real life are nothing more, at least initially, than an indicator in your ability to play the game that's being played.

00:09:15.160 You know, whether it's approaching somebody you think is attractive out in public or on a dating app, it seems like you've got to know the rules.

00:09:23.860 Otherwise, you're not even going to give yourself a chance.

00:09:26.120 But I have this fear that too many men think it should just work or it should just happen or it should be so organic that all of this stuff isn't necessary.

00:09:37.700 But there's no other aspect of life a man actually believes that.

00:09:41.540 Yeah, exactly.

00:09:42.760 It should just come to me.

00:09:44.360 The right one will find you eventually.

00:09:45.900 And I don't think it's men's fault.

00:09:48.020 It's just what we're taught.

00:09:49.380 Just be yourself and the right one will find you.

00:09:51.720 That's like saying just be yourself and the right job or the right business will find you.

00:09:56.920 It won't.

00:09:57.820 Something will find you and eventually you'll settle for something because we'll get sick of being alone.

00:10:04.360 Because Tony Robbins says we're going to sacrifice our values to meet our needs.

00:10:07.820 And my value might mean I want somebody who's physically attractive.

00:10:11.440 I want to be respected in a relationship.

00:10:13.240 I don't want to feel like I have to walk on eggshells around that person.

00:10:15.820 I want freedom.

00:10:17.020 I want connection and caring.

00:10:18.680 Those are my values.

00:10:19.520 That's what I value in a relationship.

00:10:20.440 But I'm going to sacrifice that because I have a need for love and connection.

00:10:22.800 Something is better than nothing.

00:10:24.300 And most men, you know that better than anybody, don't spend enough time with other men.

00:10:29.480 And how important quality male contact is, they don't have that.

00:10:33.280 And then they go on a date and they go, oh, this has to work right now because they're so starved of love.

00:10:38.180 It's just their need for love and connection isn't met.

00:10:40.260 And that's why I always say spend time with quality male friends.

00:10:42.940 Get a lot of dates, right?

00:10:44.040 Use dating apps, Instagram approaches.

00:10:45.300 I can give some tactics here in a minute to break down how easy it actually can be

00:10:49.920 because it's not that overwhelming and anybody can do it.

00:10:52.820 But you need a lot of quality dates to choose the right person from and time with quality male friends.

00:10:58.760 You know that.

00:10:59.380 Some of the happiest times we've spent outside of it being in a relationship with a woman,

00:11:03.280 it's just having fun with the boys.

00:11:05.980 It can be working out together.

00:11:07.220 It doesn't even matter what it is.

00:11:09.820 And you just talk nonsense and it's probably one of the best things for our brain.

00:11:14.960 Yeah, definitely.

00:11:16.040 Well, like you said, working out, hunting, going to the game, you name it.

00:11:21.160 But what do you think is the biggest driver in some of these challenges that men are having?

00:11:27.540 I imagine a lot of it is intimidation.

00:11:31.020 That one blows my mind a little bit.

00:11:34.140 It's wild to me that men can't approach, or I shouldn't say they can't, that they won't.

00:11:40.980 And they're so afraid.

00:11:42.240 I think they've made the fear of rejection this big monster that it really isn't.

00:11:47.020 Yeah.

00:11:47.880 And again, I don't think it's their fault.

00:11:49.500 They just haven't had a role model.

00:11:50.740 There's only two things when it comes to approaches.

00:11:52.140 The skill of doing it and then there's approach anxiety, nervousness, AA, approach anxiety, right?

00:11:57.520 And the only reason men feel rejection is because they haven't gotten enough and they overwhelm themselves because they see somebody who's truly physically attractive and then they think they have to be able to go and start a conversation with her.

00:12:12.020 But that's subjectively overwhelming.

00:12:14.020 In that moment, they can't.

00:12:16.120 They could, but would they?

00:12:18.140 They won't.

00:12:19.400 And what they have to do is they have to progressively desensitize themselves.

00:12:22.960 Can you go and speak to somebody who you don't find that physically attractive?

00:12:27.100 Somebody you really don't find physically attractive.

00:12:28.820 How high is your approach on anxiety then?

00:12:30.100 No.

00:12:30.500 But it's just a mental error.

00:12:32.140 Again, 80% of it says in anything is mindset.

00:12:33.700 You think, oh, I'm going to have to go and talk to her.

00:12:35.280 No, you can't right now.

00:12:37.720 Subjectively, Gunther Schmidt, one of Germany's best psychologists, he talks about it all the time.

00:12:41.040 Subjectivity, our subjective experience, which is something we prime at any given point in time, is something that's created.

00:12:48.000 And subjectivity is everything.

00:12:49.200 And so it may be for one person but not for another because of the state that I'm in right now, how many wins I've had over the last couple of months, my whole dating and relationship history, whether I've had role models or not.

00:13:01.420 And so just start with somebody that you don't find attractive at all.

00:13:04.660 Go talk to me and then you talk to somebody who's a little bit more attractive, a little bit more attractive.

00:13:07.880 Progressive desensitization works for everybody, but we've got to do the work.

00:13:11.120 And I see this with clients all the time.

00:13:12.480 They say, yeah, well, I still have approach anxiety.

00:13:14.300 Did you do progressive desensitization?

00:13:15.880 It's explained.

00:13:16.560 No, I didn't.

00:13:17.180 Okay.

00:13:17.760 Anybody can do it.

00:13:18.500 You might not be able to go and talk to that 8 out of 10 right now.

00:13:21.140 You might not be able to do that.

00:13:22.180 But can you talk to a 2 out of 10, subjectively in your opinion?

00:13:24.960 Yeah, you're probably going to be able to do that and wish that person a great day and share some positivity.

00:13:29.420 People lack momentum because we're so isolated.

00:13:32.340 And again, it's easy to blame society.

00:13:34.940 And there's definitely factors there.

00:13:36.800 But the only thing we can do is assume an individual responsibility and say, there's nothing wrong with me.

00:13:41.880 It's not my fault.

00:13:42.780 It just is what it is.

00:13:43.940 But today I will start socializing.

00:13:46.480 And then we feel at home in the world.

00:13:47.900 We do one little step.

00:13:48.940 And then there's the skill set.

00:13:50.460 Because there's very few openers in person that you can't use.

00:13:54.820 The opener doesn't work.

00:13:55.980 But if you ask her, do you have a boyfriend?

00:13:58.160 That's probably one of the very few stupid things that you shouldn't say as an opener.

00:14:03.000 Right?

00:14:03.760 Which is like, you wouldn't want to come talk to me, would you?

00:14:06.800 Now, then again, if you said it the right way, there's probably a way to do that.

00:14:09.640 Yeah, if you said it in a funny way or something, you could probably pull that one off.

00:14:13.340 Exactly.

00:14:13.740 Yeah, if you do it in a funny way, but that takes a lot of skill.

00:14:16.200 So it's just easy to say during the day, for example, you see somebody starving, say, excuse me for a second.

00:14:19.900 I saw you.

00:14:20.500 You're really cute.

00:14:21.520 I had to come and say hi.

00:14:22.560 At night, it can be a little bit more fun and a little bit more playful.

00:14:25.400 But I always recommend just start the conversation with a compliment.

00:14:28.360 It's win-win.

00:14:29.000 And if she doesn't want to talk to you, you leave her alone immediately, no problem.

00:14:32.520 But nine out of ten rejections will actually be super nice.

00:14:35.460 Women would say, I'm actually married, but thank you so much.

00:14:37.780 That really made my day.

00:14:38.760 If you just seek to add a little bit of positivity and you get into that momentum, it is, Ryan, an evolutionary hack to just talk to people in person in a kind and respectful way and to just be a little bit smart about it.

00:14:51.300 Because almost nobody does it.

00:14:54.560 Almost.

00:14:55.220 We could, but we don't.

00:14:56.960 And if you do it, you realize what an abundance of options there is.

00:15:01.260 And the biggest mistake men make is they choose from scarcity.

00:15:04.800 They stumble into one relationship, into the next without choosing consciously, without going through a phase of comparing their options.

00:15:12.360 And so they need to just do progressive desensitization, talk to just people in general, and somebody who's gradually more attractive, gradually more attractive, gradually more attractive.

00:15:20.180 And then work on the skill set.

00:15:22.440 And there's free resources and paid resources for that.

00:15:25.680 Yeah, I mean, what you're saying makes so much sense.

00:15:28.260 I just wonder for men that have a hard time approaching that part of the issue also might be that they're so vested in what this imaginary future could potentially be before they even get a woman's number, for example.

00:15:41.700 They're worried about, oh, should I marry her?

00:15:43.660 And could she be the one?

00:15:44.680 And could she be the mother of my children?

00:15:46.500 It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:15:47.880 Well, like, why don't you get her number first?

00:15:50.780 See if you can start with that.

00:15:52.220 Or even on a first date, like, you don't have to worry about getting laid or getting in a long-term relationship.

00:15:57.760 Just see if you like her and vice versa.

00:15:59.880 See if she likes you.

00:16:01.180 Yeah, exactly.

00:16:01.840 Again, it comes back to abundance.

00:16:03.620 They put her on a pedestal.

00:16:04.800 It's like a business.

00:16:05.440 You only have this one deal.

00:16:06.560 Well, you're not going to negotiate as well.

00:16:08.400 You're applying for a job.

00:16:09.680 This is the only offer you have.

00:16:10.860 You're not going to negotiate as well.

00:16:12.240 You'll need it a lot more.

00:16:13.640 People say, you know, I really love her.

00:16:15.500 I really, I think I love her.

00:16:17.800 I have a crush on her.

00:16:19.060 She's it, you know?

00:16:20.800 That's the same thing as saying you go on a 28-day fast and somebody dangles a steak in front of you.

00:16:26.820 You will believe you're in love with that steak.

00:16:29.180 Look, I love that steak.

00:16:30.340 That steak is my steak.

00:16:32.260 No, you're starving, right?

00:16:33.880 If you had more options, you wouldn't care because you want the day to go well, but you don't need it to go well.

00:16:40.560 Women need to feel that you want them, but that you don't need them.

00:16:42.800 And men pedestalize, but if they just take more action, they approach one person, they use more dating apps, they use Instagram, and they need a structure also.

00:16:50.600 What I tell people is block time in your calendar.

00:16:52.580 Sounds stupid.

00:16:53.080 Block a little bit of time, 15 minutes a day for dating apps.

00:16:55.520 Ideally, two times seven minutes or something because you want to sign in twice a day, but it doesn't have to be an hour.

00:17:01.040 And then block time every week to go and socialize.

00:17:04.800 We used to live in tribes where we were around 100, 200 people all the time.

00:17:09.020 We're not meant to be alone.

00:17:10.100 And when you socialize, something really interesting happens.

00:17:13.560 You notice that the world isn't as bad a place as media makes it out to be because we hear all these things in the news.

00:17:20.300 But then we look around in reality and we're like, seems fine.

00:17:23.860 Things look pretty good.

00:17:25.140 Yeah.

00:17:25.860 Most people is my core belief.

00:17:27.620 I may be wrong with this, but I believe most people are good people.

00:17:30.380 And if you talk to them and you have more positive interaction points, you'll feel at home in the world.

00:17:35.080 Wayne Dyer said that Albert Einstein once said, whether it's true or not, I don't know, but that one of the most important decisions we make in life is whether we live in a friendly or a hostile universe.

00:17:46.240 And I think that's a decision we have to make over and over again because there is evil in the world.

00:17:50.360 But if I focus on that, I'll attract more of that.

00:17:52.820 Not in a way, but because I'll unconsciously start exhibiting certain micro expressions that have people respond differently.

00:18:01.540 I've been going out for many, many years.

00:18:03.200 I don't drink.

00:18:04.280 I take no drugs, nothing.

00:18:05.400 Right.

00:18:05.840 And so with clients or by myself, I haven't gotten in a fight since I started going out.

00:18:10.720 I trained karate for many years.

00:18:12.080 I'm well capable of it, of physical violence, but I avoid it at all costs.

00:18:15.320 I don't want it.

00:18:15.700 And there have been a couple of close encounters.

00:18:17.180 But I'm really disarming.

00:18:18.600 I'm really looking for ways to not get into those situations.

00:18:24.520 And if you just talk to people more and you offer a little bit of value, one compliment, and now here's a real tactical point for guys, you have to overshare.

00:18:32.820 Because in a business setting, what we learn as men is that if people are supposed to like you, you ask them a lot of questions.

00:18:40.060 Ask them questions.

00:18:40.920 That doesn't work with women because if you talk to a woman anywhere, you have to get permission, implicit permission to people ask, to even ask that question.

00:18:50.140 Imagine a homeless person comes up to you and starts asking you, so what do you do for work?

00:18:53.360 Do you come here often?

00:18:54.320 Not interested.

00:18:55.800 Yeah, exactly.

00:18:56.200 I don't know you.

00:18:56.960 I don't know if I can trust you.

00:18:58.240 So, but instead, I'm not sure if you've had this.

00:19:00.200 If a homeless person comes up to you, comes up to you and starts sharing, you know, so this is my story.

00:19:04.940 And they start just sharing, you're like, oh, all of a sudden there's a little bit of a connection and you're much more willing to want to give to them, even though both people, both homeless people are probably equally deserving of love and support.

00:19:17.280 But the one person just overshare a little bit instead of asking me questions.

00:19:20.720 Hey, guys, so what happened is they'll tell a story.

00:19:23.460 That's what we need to do.

00:19:24.360 We need to assume the burden of the conversation in the beginning.

00:19:27.500 Most guys, they run out of things to say and then they start stacking one question after another.

00:19:31.140 And if you do that, after an approach, even just two and a half, three questions, she's already zoned out.

00:19:37.240 So, just overshare just any question you have.

00:19:40.180 So, instead of what do you do for work, you look like a lawyer.

00:19:42.800 Well, instead, even if you're wrong, it doesn't matter.

00:19:45.820 It's more emotionally engaging first.

00:19:47.760 Like, what do you mean?

00:19:48.660 Well, it's like you have a really cool balance between elegant and yet still cool.

00:19:52.240 Okay.

00:19:52.860 You know, something.

00:19:53.880 It's not the line, but just make it more playful.

00:19:58.160 It is a little counterintuitive.

00:20:00.120 I think for most people because we always hear the adage of, you know, don't make it about yourself and be humble and all of these things that we grew up, even outside of the dating space, that we grew up adopting as, you know, don't make yourself the center of the universe.

00:20:16.380 And I don't think that's what you're saying.

00:20:18.360 But I imagine a lot of men interpret what you're saying that way and it feels really awkward.

00:20:23.340 Well, I even, the other day on one of our group calls with our men, I had asked guys to share their strengths.

00:20:31.620 It is amazing how difficult it is for men to share what they're good at.

00:20:35.220 They can talk about what they're bad at all day long.

00:20:37.820 No issue, especially in a group like that.

00:20:39.760 But when you start asking, what are you good at?

00:20:42.480 It's like crickets.

00:20:43.460 Yeah, because we've learned that people celebrate for us when we're not doing so good.

00:20:49.320 Then they're there for us.

00:20:50.320 But when things go really well for us, very few people want to see us win.

00:20:54.540 And you're right.

00:20:54.940 It's absolutely not about us becoming the center of the universe and being selfish or narcissistic or egotistical.

00:20:59.460 No.

00:21:00.260 You just want to assume the burden conversation until she starts talking.

00:21:03.360 The second she starts sharing, then you let her.

00:21:05.980 Then you ask questions.

00:21:07.480 But remember, this is not a speed dating setup.

00:21:09.880 This is a spontaneous, organic situation in a Starbucks, on the street, in a bar, if you wanted to, wherever it happens to be.

00:21:17.080 She doesn't know you.

00:21:17.940 She doesn't owe you any of her time.

00:21:20.120 So for her to get to the hook point, as it's called, where she starts emotionally investing in you, you have to offer something.

00:21:26.940 And what you offer in the beginning could be a compliment and then maybe a little bit of a story.

00:21:30.840 Yeah, I was just actually about to go shopping because my mom is visiting and we're going to buy some dairy-free chocolate.

00:21:38.700 And then you open up, this is really important, different conversational hook points in the hope that she can relate to one of the three.

00:21:45.840 And then it's ping pong.

00:21:47.040 But you only do that until she starts sharing.

00:21:49.280 And then obviously you're going to be interested in her.

00:21:51.200 But for the first five to ten minutes, you have to assume the burden of the conversation.

00:21:54.940 You can't just put her into an interview mode.

00:21:57.240 Women actually hate it.

00:21:58.160 Yeah, some women say, you know, I went on this date with this guy and all he did was talk about himself.

00:22:02.460 Yeah, but you dated him for two months though.

00:22:03.880 You didn't reject him after the first date.

00:22:05.260 So that evidently wasn't what it is because, yes, maybe that guy was lacking genuine interest and comfort and reassurance.

00:22:12.780 But most men, I would say, who are good men, they'll fall into this interview mode.

00:22:17.040 So just overshare.

00:22:18.220 And then when she starts talking, cool, then ask her questions and then you want to have a ping pong.

00:22:22.720 But again, assuming the burden of the conversation, that concept is what it's called.

00:22:26.820 That's super important in the beginning.

00:22:28.860 I want to go back to something you said.

00:22:30.640 It was that quote, and I'm paraphrasing.

00:22:32.060 But you either live in a hostile world or a healthy world.

00:22:35.000 It was something like that.

00:22:36.360 And one of the things that I think I'm seeing more and more of, especially as it relates to dating,

00:22:41.200 is a level of bitterness and pessimism around dating, the process of dating,

00:22:48.020 and directly aimed at women themselves.

00:22:51.080 Would you agree with that?

00:22:52.000 Yeah, there's a lot of people who are very bitter towards women as a whole.

00:22:56.060 And what do you, is that just past experience they're basing it on?

00:23:01.660 Is it cultural programming?

00:23:03.220 I mean, you have the rise of the incels and these types of movements where marriage is horrible

00:23:09.120 and it's an evil institution and men are getting taken advantage of.

00:23:12.320 And I'm not saying that stuff doesn't exist.

00:23:14.580 Sure, it does.

00:23:16.300 But that's like you were talking about earlier.

00:23:18.560 When you actually go out in the real world, it's not really so prevalent as you might hear it otherwise.

00:23:23.380 I think whenever, so our brain distorts, deletes, and generalizes.

00:23:29.700 Whenever we have some experience, we tend to make a generalization out of it to categorize life to be able to function.

00:23:37.020 And that is helpful in some ways, but we can also rob ourselves of the experience of life.

00:23:42.460 Some men have had very bad experiences with women in the past where they lost half of their shit in a divorce

00:23:48.040 or they got screwed over very badly.

00:23:49.800 And women have the same story of suffering, by the way.

00:23:52.700 But when we go and generalize, and I believe whenever we generalize towards any particular group,

00:23:58.380 yeah, there are trends for sure that we need to be aware of.

00:24:00.540 But whenever we say this group, whatever group it may be, is, well, then we neglect humanity

00:24:06.180 because a group of millions of people is never one thing.

00:24:11.340 There are trends that you want to be aware of, but it's never one thing.

00:24:15.540 And so a lot of that is past experiences.

00:24:19.060 But do you know what I think it really is?

00:24:20.300 It's mindset, it's social media, and to be honest, it's just loneliness.

00:24:24.260 If they were to actually engage more with the world, a lot of that would subside.

00:24:30.220 Tony Robbins says, stay in your head and you're dead.

00:24:32.360 Because if we think about what it will be like, I'm not sure if you've ever had this.

00:24:35.520 This is very silly.

00:24:36.520 I don't have a car in Dublin.

00:24:38.020 I just Uber every day, right?

00:24:39.980 So I was in Germany and I rented a car and it was funny.

00:24:42.700 I was going for a walk and I was already thinking about what it would be like to drive again

00:24:45.960 because I hadn't driven in a while.

00:24:47.400 And a part of me, there was a little bit of fear.

00:24:49.740 Not necessarily that I was mega afraid of it, but I was like, oh, am I going to be able to drive?

00:24:53.620 I'm going to crash because I wanted to get a fast car because Germany, there's parts of the Autobahn

00:24:56.780 where you can go as fast as you want.

00:24:57.740 Not even fear, but I was like overthinking it.

00:25:00.140 And then when I was actually sitting in the Porsche Cayenne driving 249 kilometers an hour,

00:25:03.960 it wasn't a problem at all.

00:25:05.920 It was no issue.

00:25:06.600 Yeah, there was adrenaline, but it's no problem.

00:25:09.160 But if we think about a situation, we make it out to be so much worse.

00:25:13.280 In karate, when I was fighting or in judo, if you anticipated, there's a lot of fear.

00:25:16.880 When you're in it, yeah, there's pain, but the fear, there's adrenaline, but it's never as bad.

00:25:23.040 Not never, but it's almost never as bad as you think it is.

00:25:26.040 Even a rejection.

00:25:27.100 I've gotten rejected more times than most guys ever made love for themselves.

00:25:31.880 That's really true.

00:25:33.180 It's genuinely true.

00:25:34.600 And most of them are fine.

00:25:36.880 Some really hurt.

00:25:38.520 We're like, ginger, right?

00:25:40.460 You're like, oh, wow.

00:25:42.160 Fuck it.

00:25:43.220 And that could make you pessimistic.

00:25:45.380 But if you have the right mindset, the right coaches, or somebody telling you, that's just

00:25:48.760 statistics.

00:25:49.460 Because if you talk to 20 women, for example, one or two, and you do a decent job, not amazing,

00:25:55.400 not terrible, a decent job.

00:25:56.940 One or two are going to really like you.

00:25:58.780 One or two are going to wish AIDS and cancer upon you and your family.

00:26:04.000 And the rest is kind of a bell curve distribution.

00:26:06.980 Yeah, somewhat good, some not so good.

00:26:08.680 But it takes a lot more volume than people think.

00:26:11.540 And by the way, this is an experience I wish for all men to have.

00:26:15.680 Go.

00:26:16.260 Sounds crazy.

00:26:16.940 Most men will never do this.

00:26:17.840 And you don't have to do what I'm telling you to get into a quality relationship.

00:26:20.600 But as a transformative exercise, go and do 20 to 30 approaches in one night or one day.

00:26:26.140 What happens to you is you will fall in love twice.

00:26:29.700 As in, you'll be like, oh, wow, her.

00:26:31.500 I really like her.

00:26:32.080 You do 17 more approaches.

00:26:33.380 No, I really like her.

00:26:34.260 And you forgot about the first.

00:26:35.900 Most men never have that experience in such a short period of time.

00:26:38.260 So they fantasize about the same woman from work, from the sauna place, whatever, for months

00:26:43.120 or years to come.

00:26:44.020 You can tighten that experience and realize it is never the individual.

00:26:48.200 It's the experience you crave.

00:26:50.940 Marshall Rosenberg, he founded something called Nonviolent Communication.

00:26:55.900 And it's a really powerful system.

00:26:58.280 He says that any psychological need we have, for example, the one for love and connection,

00:27:03.860 can be met independently of any particular person.

00:27:06.280 You never need one person.

00:27:08.020 Everybody can be replaced.

00:27:09.860 Sounds horrible, but it's actually a beautiful fact of life because we don't need anybody to

00:27:13.720 be happy.

00:27:14.820 Now, does it mean that your mom or your best friend or your wife, that you're just going

00:27:18.360 to replace them like that?

00:27:19.060 No, but if she's gone, she's gone.

00:27:20.760 So you can decide how long we want to keep suffering.

00:27:23.820 But it takes a lot more volume.

00:27:25.780 You need to meet a lot more women than you initially thought to find somebody you're compatible

00:27:29.660 with.

00:27:30.480 And if you actually, most men will never do this.

00:27:32.500 And again, as I said, you don't have to do this if you want to find a relationship.

00:27:35.860 But as an experiment, if you talk to 20, 30 women in one day, you'll fall in love

00:27:40.100 twice and you realize, oh, it was never her that I craved.

00:27:43.780 It was the experience of it.

00:27:46.080 You want the sensation.

00:27:48.080 And most men get stuck on one woman far too long.

00:27:51.520 They pedestalize her.

00:27:53.140 Jordan Peterson says they project an ideal onto her that isn't even her.

00:27:57.920 And so abundance is always the answer.

00:28:00.560 Get more options and then choose from her and say, I don't need her.

00:28:05.440 I want to see whether we're compatible or not.

00:28:07.280 And as you were saying, there's compatibility and then there's communication skills, compatibility

00:28:11.360 regarding personality, values, intellect, physical attractiveness, and how much genuine

00:28:15.580 burning desire she has for us.

00:28:17.040 Because some women will want you a five out of 10.

00:28:19.520 Some women will want you nine or 10 out of 10.

00:28:22.460 You want to be with a woman who has a lot of desire for you.

00:28:24.640 There's some women who look at me like, yeah, he's all right.

00:28:26.640 And Fernanda, my fiance, who's been with five and a half years, she really likes me.

00:28:30.420 She couldn't imagine that women would reject me.

00:28:32.000 I'm like, I appreciate that, but I live in objective reality.

00:28:34.640 It happens all the time.

00:28:35.740 Guess what?

00:28:36.040 I teach this, right?

00:28:37.320 But not everybody likes a ginger.

00:28:39.100 Most people don't.

00:28:39.840 She's like, no, I can't believe that.

00:28:41.420 It's funny.

00:28:41.760 When a woman is with you, she'll actually think all other women will want to be with you.

00:28:44.980 I should let her live in that delusion, to be honest, right?

00:28:47.260 But I tell her, I was like, it's actually not the case.

00:28:49.700 You can appreciate it, but it's not reality, right?

00:28:52.300 Exactly, exactly.

00:28:53.280 But genuine burning desire is one.

00:28:54.620 And then there's communication skills in terms of creating interaction, building a connection.

00:28:59.280 And that's just a skill set anybody can learn because you can break charisma, you can break

00:29:06.100 that down to the behavioral level, volume, eye contact, certainty in your voice.

00:29:12.540 You can break all of it down to a behavioral level, and then it takes the crazy element out of it.

00:29:17.860 You can systematize it and structure it really nicely, actually.

00:29:21.420 And then, again, it's not about lines.

00:29:23.100 I'm not a fan of say this line and she'll love you.

00:29:25.200 No, it's a framework.

00:29:25.880 And then you fill it with authenticity.

00:29:29.700 Man, I'm going to step away from the conversation just very briefly.

00:29:33.200 David and I had talked a little bit about forging relationships with other men.

00:29:38.460 And speaking of forging and men, we've got an event coming up May 1st through the 4th of this year.

00:29:43.900 So it's in the next couple of weeks now.

00:29:46.140 It's not just an event, it's an experience.

00:29:48.820 Men are going to be stripped away of excuses and distraction and really find the raw truth of who they are.

00:29:54.120 This is going to be hosted by me, of course, and Larry Hagner with The Dad Edge.

00:29:58.760 And this experience is designed to challenge you, to sharpen you, to strengthen you.

00:30:03.260 You're going to train with other men, tackle physical adversity,

00:30:07.000 learn time-tested principles of fatherhood and leadership and legacy.

00:30:12.040 And this is where your mission is going to get clear as we roll into the remainder of 2025.

00:30:16.900 Now, you know as well as I do, the world is full of noise and weak standards and passive living.

00:30:22.680 But this offers a rare space for deep brotherhood and meaningful change.

00:30:28.180 You're not just going to leave inspired because that's not all we want.

00:30:31.100 We want you to be inspired, but that's not it.

00:30:32.660 You're going to leave equipped.

00:30:34.080 So whether you're a father or a husband, a man committed to becoming a better leader,

00:30:39.040 this event is built to reignite your purpose and reconnect you to what truly matters.

00:30:45.000 So if you're ready to level up and lead with strength and clarity and conviction,

00:30:49.280 then The Forge is where you belong.

00:30:51.480 Check it out at themensforge.com.

00:30:54.420 Again, that's May 1st through the 4th at themensforge.com.

00:30:58.020 Do it quickly.

00:30:58.720 We'll see you there.

00:30:59.240 Yeah, I think that's one thing I appreciate most about your work because there are a lot of accounts

00:31:06.600 and a lot of people out there who would fall into the pickup artist camp, I would say.

00:31:11.360 And I've never seen you portray or present any of your information in a way that came off as manipulative

00:31:19.260 or douchey for lack of a better term.

00:31:23.080 It's all very genuine, although you are trying to – I wouldn't say engineer.

00:31:29.800 I think that has too much of a manipulative context.

00:31:32.180 But you are trying to help men put their best foot forward in an authentic way.

00:31:37.380 Yeah, 100%.

00:31:38.320 And I believe you can say what's true in an effective way or in an ineffective way.

00:31:44.160 So there's radical honesty, and most men have to become a lot more radically honest.

00:31:47.740 It's not that they're consciously lying, but they agree when they don't feel like agreeing.

00:31:51.120 They smile when they don't feel like smiling.

00:31:53.440 When I was getting married to my ex-wife on the day of the wedding, I was smiling to a lot of people

00:31:57.120 even though I didn't feel like smiling, and I was exhausted the next day, and I had a panic attack.

00:32:00.680 So it's not good.

00:32:02.020 Faking shit doesn't work.

00:32:04.340 And I believe – by the way, I would be curious to hear your definition.

00:32:09.100 What is your definition of manipulation versus influence?

00:32:13.060 How do you differentiate the two?

00:32:14.500 I only differentiate the two because there is a negative connotation with manipulation.

00:32:22.020 So what I would suggest is that manipulation is deceit in order to extract something on a very selfish basis

00:32:32.300 at the other person's expense versus influence would be me communicating in a certain way,

00:32:40.600 presenting myself in a certain way for the mutual benefit of both of us.

00:32:45.720 Yes.

00:32:46.660 Yeah, I think that's very close to what I have.

00:32:48.540 The way I look at it is I'm not an expert in physics.

00:32:52.200 I have a friend who did his master's in physics, and he says that in physics,

00:32:56.340 the word manipulation and influence is actually the same thing.

00:32:58.240 You manipulate the curve of the ball.

00:33:00.560 Manipulation and influence, same thing.

00:33:02.000 You enforce power onto something, and then you change the direction.

00:33:10.540 And so from that perspective, you could say manipulation and influence are the same.

00:33:13.620 But not really.

00:33:14.320 We all feel very different about the word manipulation as opposed to influence.

00:33:17.220 So what is it?

00:33:17.960 And one is intent.

00:33:19.480 I think, do I, to the best of my ability, influence this person now

00:33:24.340 to only get something and I don't care what happens to them,

00:33:29.700 or do I look for a win-win, or do I look for just win for them?

00:33:33.960 I think as long as it's win-win, we'll always try to change behavior.

00:33:38.040 That's influence and manipulation.

00:33:39.280 Both will try to change behavior.

00:33:40.720 But one is intent, and then the other one is,

00:33:43.160 that kind of ties into those actual consequences.

00:33:45.240 How does it impact them?

00:33:46.340 Am I going to withhold information to, as you're saying, extract something,

00:33:50.700 and I don't care what happens to them?

00:33:51.900 But if a parent, is a parent manipulating their child?

00:33:56.320 Well, no, because they have good intent.

00:33:58.600 Manipulation is, I just want to have intimacy with as many women as possible,

00:34:02.240 and I don't care what happens next.

00:34:03.300 No, I'm on a date, and I want to present myself in a way where you like me, right?

00:34:08.140 I'm trying to change your behavior to like me.

00:34:10.940 Now, there's nothing wrong with that, unless, or as long as there's mutual win-win in mind.

00:34:17.300 And I think that intent shines through in the end.

00:34:20.620 You can't fake that for too long.

00:34:23.140 That comes out in the wash over the years.

00:34:25.940 If you actually have good intent, and especially with social media,

00:34:28.560 people are filming each other all the time.

00:34:29.860 Now, everybody can get angry at times.

00:34:31.320 Everybody can have a weak moment.

00:34:32.340 That's not what it's about.

00:34:32.920 We're all human, 100%.

00:34:33.880 But intent really shines through.

00:34:36.620 Are you somebody who's selfish, just trying to scam people the whole time,

00:34:40.320 or with women, or you genuinely care?

00:34:43.760 That is influence.

00:34:44.560 So now, I don't believe in manipulation, because I don't believe in pretending to be somebody you're not.

00:34:50.620 I think you should be effective in your communication,

00:34:54.000 but you can, again, say what's true effectively and ineffectively.

00:34:58.220 Yeah, I mean, I've got a really good friend.

00:35:01.780 I don't, you may know him, Tanner Guzzi.

00:35:03.600 Does that ring a bell to you?

00:35:05.240 May have seen, not sure.

00:35:07.320 Yeah, he owns an organization called Masculine Style,

00:35:09.900 and he's very focused on helping men improve the way they look,

00:35:13.500 their appearance, how they present themselves.

00:35:15.900 And he gets the same thing.

00:35:17.460 Oh, you're just trying to manipulate people.

00:35:18.780 He's like, no, what I'm trying to do is take who this individual is

00:35:22.840 and show it in a way that's able to be received by other people.

00:35:27.580 And all of us do this on a daily basis.

00:35:29.620 When we get up, you put a shirt on,

00:35:31.960 and you put that particular shirt on for a reason.

00:35:35.220 You thought you looked good at it.

00:35:36.560 You thought the woman at the bank that you're going to would like it.

00:35:40.140 You did it for a reason.

00:35:41.460 And so when you pretend like you're not doing that,

00:35:46.320 you're actually lying to yourself anyways.

00:35:49.460 Like, we all wear things.

00:35:50.980 We buy the cars that we buy.

00:35:52.840 We have our house decorated the way we have it for a reason.

00:35:56.880 Just make sure it's authentic.

00:35:58.120 Just make sure it's genuine to who you actually are

00:36:00.280 and put your best foot forward.

00:36:02.220 Exactly.

00:36:02.700 And then people say, well, that's manipulation.

00:36:04.300 Wait, are you saying it's only authentic

00:36:06.360 if this guy dresses like shit or his beard isn't on point?

00:36:09.580 What, that's authentic?

00:36:11.060 Or, oh, you're only authentic if you're very humble as a person.

00:36:16.520 I don't think being humble is any more authentic than being confident.

00:36:19.920 Now, there is such an extreme of confidence called delusion.

00:36:25.460 And if you pair that with selfishness, then you can call it narcissism.

00:36:28.240 That exists for sure.

00:36:29.680 But it's no more authentic to be confident as opposed to fake humble.

00:36:34.600 Humility is fake in a lot of ways.

00:36:36.500 I think there's real humility, which is taught through martial arts, for example.

00:36:40.720 Like, I did karate and judo.

00:36:42.520 I remember I was a 12-year-old child,

00:36:44.820 and I was wrestling, sparring in a judo match with a 14-year-old girl.

00:36:48.300 She was two levels higher than me.

00:36:49.840 I had a yellow belt, yellow-orange, and she had a green belt.

00:36:52.160 And we were fighting and we were wrestling,

00:36:53.660 and it went into overtime.

00:36:55.100 And eventually, she throws me over her head.

00:36:57.460 It's called Tomo Inage, if I don't remember.

00:36:59.340 And then I fly through the air, and I land on my back.

00:37:01.540 Eep on, boom.

00:37:02.040 She wins immediately.

00:37:02.920 And I'm like there, 11, 12 years old, crying my eyes out.

00:37:06.020 And my parents are there.

00:37:06.840 And they're making excuses.

00:37:07.800 They're like, hey, you fought well.

00:37:08.900 Good job.

00:37:09.500 You fought well.

00:37:10.180 Yeah, guess what?

00:37:10.720 And you lost.

00:37:12.180 You know?

00:37:13.040 And that's great.

00:37:14.080 That's real humility.

00:37:15.460 Real humility is saying, I respect you as a person.

00:37:19.040 And I was very lucky.

00:37:19.860 I've had amazing parents.

00:37:20.920 My mom, she's visiting me in Dublin right now.

00:37:23.020 She's the kind.

00:37:23.740 Both my parents, they're so kind.

00:37:25.060 They don't care about status at all, really.

00:37:28.220 They don't give a shit whether somebody's the waiter or the...

00:37:31.180 They don't care at all, which I think is amazing.

00:37:34.320 Because real humility means, do I care about human beings?

00:37:37.660 That's intent.

00:37:38.660 Do I like people?

00:37:39.700 And then there's context-specific humility.

00:37:41.560 So I think that's great.

00:37:42.460 But a lot of men, they're walking around thinking they're not allowed to be confident.

00:37:46.440 No, you're allowed to speak with certainty.

00:37:48.040 You're allowed to speak well of yourself.

00:37:49.700 As long as you want everybody else to win, too.

00:37:51.940 It's not just, I'm better than you.

00:37:53.220 Yeah, let's win together, right?

00:37:55.600 I'm good, and I want you to feel great, too.

00:37:58.400 That's why I think the work that you do with men is also so important.

00:38:03.460 Men need that support network of other men encouraging each other.

00:38:06.900 Men hear so few words of encouragement from other men, right?

00:38:11.120 And you know that.

00:38:12.320 Somebody says one thing to us, one compliment, and we think about that shit for the rest of the day.

00:38:17.140 Oh, man, no doubt.

00:38:19.200 It is interesting because you learn to desensitize yourself from it a little bit, but that stuff never goes away.

00:38:25.780 It's always there, and it's always present.

00:38:27.580 It needs to be offset with something.

00:38:29.500 I do like also that you talk about this idea of radical honesty.

00:38:33.900 And I think that is an element of being humble, that I don't always see it the same way, that I might see things differently.

00:38:42.520 But I imagine the biggest issue for men when it comes to honesty about what they want to need, or maybe it's a political difference of opinion, or a cultural difference of opinion, is losing the one or letting this one get away.

00:38:58.880 But that's that scarcity mindset, I imagine, versus, hey, I should probably share my political and cultural views because I want to know on date number one, not date number 40.

00:39:10.420 Yeah, 100%.

00:39:11.320 Radical honesty.

00:39:12.180 And by the way, disclaimer, I'm not perfect.

00:39:13.880 That's something I'm working on every day as well.

00:39:16.400 It's not like I'm great now.

00:39:18.240 And then, for example, Sam Harris, who I disagree with on a lot of things, who I still respect as a human being immensely, he's an amazing – I disagree with him on a lot of things.

00:39:26.360 There's no need to get into the particulars.

00:39:28.120 But he wrote an amazing book called Lying.

00:39:30.840 And he basically says, you should never lie, ever.

00:39:33.760 Don't even tell your kids Santa Claus exists.

00:39:35.360 Now you can have a nuanced discussion around that.

00:39:37.600 But radical honesty is something I'm working on as well.

00:39:40.120 Anybody who says, I never lie, full of shit, right?

00:39:42.500 Because we all make small mistakes here and there.

00:39:45.400 But then it's a real effort to just say what it is.

00:39:48.680 Because with my ex-wife, I didn't.

00:39:50.000 I didn't communicate my needs.

00:39:51.260 And radical honesty is a screening mechanism for compatibility.

00:39:55.980 If you say, I hate X, Y, Z.

00:39:58.440 I love X, Y, Z.

00:40:00.580 If you bond over what you dislike almost as much or more than what you like.

00:40:07.320 So you should bring that up.

00:40:09.080 And you should communicate that unapologetically.

00:40:11.140 If you're afraid to lose her because your values aren't aligned, guess what?

00:40:13.660 You're supposed to lose her.

00:40:14.620 This is not going to be your wife.

00:40:15.540 If you don't agree in politics or religion, she won't be your wife.

00:40:17.840 If you don't agree in politics or religion, that person is not going to be your business partner.

00:40:20.760 And then you have to realize, as much as you can live in the world, as we talked about earlier, and wish beings well, as Jack Kornfield says, and look for kind interaction points with a lot of people.

00:40:32.880 You also have to understand that 9 out of 10 people you don't want to have in your life closely.

00:40:38.780 Not because there's anything wrong with them.

00:40:40.420 Just because they're different in the way they view the world.

00:40:44.120 And if you have to have arguments at the dinner table about religion and politics, spend less time with those people.

00:40:50.360 Yeah.

00:40:51.020 Well, you know, I already hear what people might say to that is, you know, you do want other people, other opinions.

00:40:56.580 And sure, you can have other opinions.

00:40:58.320 And I think in relationships, of course, you're always going to have other opinions.

00:41:02.400 To me, that's the point of a relationship, somebody that can share things with me that I'm not aware of or privy to or I've never considered.

00:41:12.380 Like, why would I be in a relationship with a woman if she can't bring something to the table and round out a perspective I might have?

00:41:18.340 But if it's things that are just non-negotiables, you said that she won't become your wife or that person won't become your business partner.

00:41:27.700 I think the threat is she might actually become your wife because you both do it anyways in spite of red flags.

00:41:33.720 Yeah.

00:41:34.280 You can have differences of opinions, but your values, they have to be the same.

00:41:37.120 I say compatibility regarding personalities does not mean the same, but values, it means the same.

00:41:41.380 Fernando and I, we have completely different personalities.

00:41:43.260 Super different, but super compatible.

00:41:45.920 Our values are the same, though.

00:41:47.600 Not 100%, but 90-ish, whatever percent.

00:41:50.460 We never argue on fundamental things as, like, we never do, really.

00:41:56.000 Now, that doesn't mean that on certain things we don't have a disagreement of ideas.

00:42:02.480 And she, it's funny, I'm a lot more eloquent than she is, but she's like a sniper.

00:42:09.560 She may, I might say seven things because I'm just talking all day for seven hours a day when I'm with clients sometimes,

00:42:14.960 but she might say one sentence.

00:42:16.580 Wow, that's a perspective I haven't considered.

00:42:18.260 That's amazing.

00:42:18.720 But with my ex-wife, we'd argue about the most fundamental things, and you cannot have a happy relationship if you don't agree on your fundamental values.

00:42:29.280 And politics and religion, they're just a manifestation of where you are in the world.

00:42:34.580 Do you think this idea of radical honesty, and I've used the word confrontation, I don't know if you'd use that word,

00:42:41.600 because that has a negative connotation to it as well.

00:42:44.140 It seems to me that based on what I've heard you say and just in general,

00:42:48.080 that that ability to disagree is actually an attractive quality to women because it's a sign of surety and confidence.

00:42:57.540 They love it, man.

00:42:58.680 They love it.

00:42:59.440 You can be on a date and just agree the whole time, and agreeing builds comfort, but it doesn't build attraction.

00:43:05.280 If you look at her and she tells you something, and you just go, really?

00:43:10.660 She's like, wah!

00:43:12.840 Disagreeing can produce a lot of emotional spikes in her because she might say, yeah, astrology.

00:43:18.200 I was like, yeah, that's nonsense.

00:43:19.280 Now, if she actually believes in astrology, you probably would not want to be in a marriage with her anyway.

00:43:23.680 That put aside.

00:43:24.440 But if it's something like that, you just say, no, that's nonsense.

00:43:27.200 Absolutely not.

00:43:28.060 And then you own that.

00:43:29.440 Women want to see that you're a being in space, and it can sometimes even just be a so-called congruence test

00:43:34.920 where she gives you something unforeseen, and you're emotionally calm and grounded and non-reactive

00:43:40.020 or not negatively reactive towards her.

00:43:42.340 It's super attractive because she realizes you're a man, and being a man doesn't mean dominating her

00:43:47.080 or telling her what to do, but it says you have an opinion, and you'll share that unapologetically,

00:43:51.380 and then you get the cards fall where they may.

00:43:53.500 And it's not about convincing.

00:43:54.640 It's not about trying to make it work.

00:43:56.060 You communicate a value proposition, if you will, and then she either really likes it or

00:44:00.120 she doesn't.

00:44:00.520 There's zero convincing.

00:44:01.720 If she doesn't want to, no problem.

00:44:02.700 Wish you all the best.

00:44:03.240 We can shake hands.

00:44:04.020 I once had this with a lady many years ago.

00:44:06.540 I went on this date with her, and within five minutes, we realized that we're not compatible.

00:44:10.420 I shook her hand and left it.

00:44:12.360 Now, it's funny, right?

00:44:12.940 Years later, she then found one of my videos online.

00:44:14.760 She goes, I went on a date with that guy.

00:44:15.960 It was horrible.

00:44:16.880 It wasn't.

00:44:17.540 We just disagreed on fundamental things, and so that was fine, but it was a respectful

00:44:23.720 interaction nonetheless.

00:44:25.440 Yeah, don't try to make it work with the wrong people.

00:44:27.900 Most people, they'd be so much happier if they stopped trying to make it work with people

00:44:32.300 that they're not compatible with.

00:44:33.440 And then take action to meet more new people, talk to men in the gym, talk to women.

00:44:39.220 You've got to be proactive about it.

00:44:41.380 Yeah.

00:44:42.040 What are some other mistakes that you see a lot of guys make, whether it's online dating

00:44:46.260 or in the real world?

00:44:48.060 What are some common pitfalls and mistakes you see these guys engaging in?

00:44:51.420 Yeah, so online dating, get good pictures, professional photography, get somebody to help you with

00:44:55.120 lifestyle, sorry, with your outfits.

00:44:58.400 Get some lifestyle pictures in there, some social proof, and some status enhancing.

00:45:03.280 So what would social proof be?

00:45:04.580 You with friends in Rome or something like that?

00:45:08.260 Or what would social proof be?

00:45:09.820 Unfortunately, real good social proof has to be women, but not you like a playboy.

00:45:13.380 That's not what the right woman wants.

00:45:16.180 So the right woman doesn't want you to be a playboy, but she still kind of wants to see

00:45:19.680 that she can trust you and that you're desired.

00:45:21.300 So ideally, for example, you're at a wedding.

00:45:23.240 You're a female cousin here, one.

00:45:24.900 You're a female cousin, two.

00:45:25.920 Or you're just in a group of people and there's women around you visibly.

00:45:28.680 It's not necessary for a dating app profile, but it is helpful.

00:45:32.720 It is helpful.

00:45:33.580 And it's not like you're sitting there like a pimp.

00:45:35.900 That's not what I'm talking about.

00:45:37.680 But do you have a picture of where you're dancing or where you're giving a speech?

00:45:42.100 It's not necessary, but it helps.

00:45:44.020 It really does.

00:45:45.180 Whether women, the smartest and the most intellectual women, it still triggers something in their

00:45:49.080 brain when they see that you're desired by the women.

00:45:51.400 Or at the very least, that women are comfortable in your presence.

00:45:54.520 That makes a big difference, yeah.

00:45:56.700 Yeah.

00:45:56.900 What about in the real world?

00:45:59.420 You know, and look, I'm not one to say that the digital isn't real.

00:46:02.720 We're doing this digital.

00:46:03.940 It's a real conversation.

00:46:05.100 But you understand what I mean.

00:46:07.380 One is they just don't take enough action at all.

00:46:09.680 And they rely on alcohol.

00:46:11.140 They need to cut alcohol or heavily reduce it.

00:46:13.660 It's just the one thing is just volume.

00:46:15.660 Do a lot more approaches in person.

00:46:17.880 Use progressive desensitization.

00:46:19.480 And men, Ryan, men will do anything to not do an approach.

00:46:23.140 They'll come up with all kinds of excuses.

00:46:24.980 The time, the this, the that, the dating apps, the matchmaking burned 30K because matchmaking

00:46:31.180 is a scam and it doesn't work because their databases are too small.

00:46:34.460 It's just, you know, they'll do anything to just not introduce themselves.

00:46:37.800 First thing is just volume.

00:46:39.220 Just introduce yourself.

00:46:40.160 Then overshare instead of just asking questions.

00:46:43.240 Tell a little bit of a story.

00:46:44.920 Then, hmm, where am I maybe being a bit logical?

00:46:47.380 Really powerful hack for men to improve their verbal game.

00:46:50.900 Watch half an hour of Theo Vaughn or other stand-up comedians or Andrew Schultz or that

00:46:56.960 is the best ever.

00:46:59.080 You will realize or kill Tony, for example, an amazing show in Austin because you see,

00:47:06.060 you see nowhere else will you get to see objectively funny humor and terrible humor in immediate

00:47:12.020 comparison and your brain will unconsciously learn the patterns.

00:47:15.300 I'm not joking.

00:47:15.800 I get my clients to watch that show and it makes them, you don't have to be a comedian.

00:47:19.060 But can you be 20% more fun and lighthearted?

00:47:21.440 Yeah, you can.

00:47:22.180 You know, fun and lighthearted, not so logical, a little bit of self-deprecation, storytelling,

00:47:27.800 disagreeing, conveying intent, giving her compliments.

00:47:31.300 Not too many and not generic, but you have the cutest facial expressions when you're trying

00:47:34.440 to explain something.

00:47:35.460 Something like that, right?

00:47:36.540 It's not about the line, but it's an example.

00:47:38.620 Building a man-to-woman connection and then 80% of it is mindset.

00:47:42.220 Not worrying about losing the wrong woman.

00:47:45.180 Those are a couple of things.

00:47:46.220 It's happy to go into more depth into each of those.

00:47:49.240 Do you feel like men struggle with, let's say, well, you talk about the approach and

00:47:55.140 I can see, I can definitely see a lot of men struggling with that.

00:47:58.400 Do you also find that they struggle with the ask, whether it's, hey, I'd like to take you

00:48:03.580 out or, hey, I'd like to get your number so I can contact you.

00:48:07.160 Like, is that transition a difficult thing for a lot of the clients that you're working

00:48:10.720 with?

00:48:10.980 Yeah, some just won't.

00:48:12.420 Some will just leave.

00:48:13.640 I'm like, why didn't you get her Instagram?

00:48:15.300 It's like, you did the hardest part.

00:48:17.820 And then the close is super easy.

00:48:19.580 The ask is just, so you're probably on Instagram, right?

00:48:21.940 Cool.

00:48:23.480 That's it, right?

00:48:24.680 You're probably on Instagram.

00:48:25.720 Okay, cool.

00:48:27.000 Cool.

00:48:27.420 Let's exchange numbers.

00:48:28.580 You literally just have to say, let's exchange numbers.

00:48:30.480 We can meet for drinks one of these days.

00:48:32.120 That's it.

00:48:32.640 Ideally, alcohol-free drinks.

00:48:33.780 I'm a fan of like no alcohol or very little.

00:48:36.000 You say, yeah, let's meet for drinks one of these days.

00:48:38.140 Oh, cool.

00:48:38.500 Do you have Instagram?

00:48:39.320 Great.

00:48:39.560 And you literally can just say, do you have Instagram?

00:48:41.560 And just, that's it.

00:48:43.240 You just hold it there and they'll know what to do.

00:48:44.940 And Instagram is usually better than just number works.

00:48:49.180 But Instagram is so she can see more attractive things about you and it will improve the show

00:48:54.840 up rates.

00:48:56.040 It's not necessary, but it helps.

00:48:57.240 It's not about followers.

00:48:58.060 I did that back in the day when I had 400 followers, not a million.

00:49:01.300 And if you have a good profile, a couple of good pictures, nine to 12 good pictures.

00:49:04.700 You post one or two stories a day, minimum effort, a lot of positive effects.

00:49:10.080 And they just, you just got to do it because you will miss a thousand, a hundred percent

00:49:14.560 of the shots that you don't take.

00:49:15.940 Just ask.

00:49:16.880 Now, the thing is, society just tells you, just walk up to her and ask for her number.

00:49:20.340 You cannot just ask for the number of the open.

00:49:23.460 That's premature escalation.

00:49:24.480 She doesn't know you.

00:49:24.980 That will work, but you eliminate 99% of options.

00:49:27.620 You actually have to talk to her for three to seven minutes or 15, or if you're going

00:49:31.240 to have an instant date, that's also fine.

00:49:33.100 But then you say, hey, you're, by the way, you're probably an Instagram, right?

00:49:35.900 Oh, cool.

00:49:36.220 Let's exchange numbers if you want and we can meet for drinks one of these days.

00:49:39.040 That's it.

00:49:39.720 And then just understand everybody gets rejected.

00:49:43.140 Everybody.

00:49:44.180 And what matters is your inner dialogue after you get the rejection.

00:49:48.020 Do you tell yourself that you're a worthless ginger and nobody will ever love you?

00:49:51.400 Or do you say, awesome, I did what I can control.

00:49:54.560 Who else here would do that?

00:49:56.900 This guy didn't.

00:49:57.880 Because whenever you actually introduce yourself to somebody who's attractive, just know that

00:50:01.020 there's a thousand men who saw her within the last couple of days who didn't do it.

00:50:07.140 Yeah, I imagine there's this weird thought that we have in our mind where if she's attractive,

00:50:14.560 she probably gets approached all the time.

00:50:17.160 And maybe that's true.

00:50:18.840 I don't know.

00:50:19.620 Is that true?

00:50:20.580 Or is she getting approached less than you think?

00:50:22.660 Much less than you think during the day.

00:50:24.400 At night, yeah.

00:50:25.260 At night, they get hit on a lot.

00:50:26.780 But during the day, a lot less.

00:50:28.920 Unless you live in like Miami or something.

00:50:31.080 But other than there, no.

00:50:33.340 Women don't get approached that much once a week maybe during the day.

00:50:37.600 During the day.

00:50:38.740 Because here's the thing.

00:50:39.280 If you're looking for a wife or a girlfriend, like long term, nightclubs aren't going to

00:50:43.320 be your best option because eight out of ten people that are there are not what you're

00:50:46.780 looking for.

00:50:47.480 Some, but eight out of ten aren't.

00:50:49.800 And so during the day, if you want to start conversations, just do it during the day.

00:50:53.920 You go shopping.

00:50:54.880 You go to the Apple store or wherever, right?

00:50:57.600 Go to the gym, whatever.

00:50:58.880 Yeah.

00:50:58.980 Exactly.

00:50:59.400 Amazing.

00:50:59.800 Yeah.

00:50:59.880 In the gym, I would, in your local gym, I would always be a little bit more indirect because

00:51:04.320 if you do an approach in the gym and you want to stay in that gym, then you have to,

00:51:08.120 in my opinion, if you don't want to get a bad reputation, you can't just be the guy

00:51:11.300 who just hits on all the seven hot women.

00:51:13.960 So I would talk to men and women.

00:51:15.720 Here's the gym strategy.

00:51:16.620 Good point.

00:51:17.240 Did we talk about the gym strategy last time we talked?

00:51:19.800 I think we did.

00:51:20.960 I think you want to be known as just the guy who is friendly and talks to everybody.

00:51:27.820 I think I remember talking about it.

00:51:29.460 Yeah, exactly.

00:51:30.240 So either, because if you care about your reputation, if you don't care or you're in

00:51:34.060 a different gym, if you're in a different gym, for example, if you're in Berlin, a gym

00:51:37.220 and you just see somebody just pretty direct, hey, you're really cute, boom, don't want

00:51:40.640 to interrupt your workout, three-minute conversation, Instagram, pre-direct, because it doesn't

00:51:44.700 matter.

00:51:45.300 But in your local gym, you can, this sounds stupid, but it works.

00:51:49.220 You can literally just ask her, not in the middle of a set, be calibrated, of course.

00:51:53.380 Would you mind taking a quick video from me, from my Instagram story later?

00:51:56.240 And she'll go, okay.

00:51:57.180 So she'll film it.

00:51:58.340 And then you just start a conversation.

00:51:59.880 You offer something.

00:52:00.580 Okay, you work out a lot.

00:52:02.200 Let me get only ever weights, never cardio.

00:52:03.820 Ha ha, right?

00:52:04.700 A little bit of a conversation.

00:52:05.720 And then you just ask her Instagram.

00:52:06.900 That works.

00:52:07.360 Now, the thing is, next time, you've got to do it with a dude, and then you do it with

00:52:10.120 a girl, you do it with a guy.

00:52:11.180 Because if somebody sees you, it's just like, ah, just Ryan, you just talk to people, you

00:52:14.660 know, it's fine.

00:52:15.520 But in your local gym, you can't just talk to women, because then again, nobody likes

00:52:20.600 somebody who's a taker, who just takes value, who takes value.

00:52:23.760 You want to offer value.

00:52:25.100 And then if you talk to men, guess what?

00:52:26.820 Like, you'll meet quality male friends in the gym.

00:52:30.980 Yeah, I have.

00:52:31.940 It is fascinating, too, because I talk with a lot of guys who are like, yeah, I just want to

00:52:35.660 meet some guy friends.

00:52:37.160 Yeah.

00:52:37.880 And I'm like, cool.

00:52:38.940 Well, where do you think they are?

00:52:40.520 They're like, I don't know.

00:52:41.100 I'm like, they're at the gym.

00:52:42.100 Hey, you want to hang out with guys who go to the gym.

00:52:44.620 Well, why?

00:52:45.660 Because they're disciplined, they're dedicated, they're committed, they're fit.

00:52:49.680 Like, they're successful.

00:52:51.320 Not exclusively, but the odds are that those people are more likely to be those characteristics.

00:52:57.160 And it's always interesting.

00:52:59.300 Go ahead.

00:53:00.100 Sorry, I was just going to add, you can also go to a little bit more of an expensive gym if

00:53:03.080 you can afford it.

00:53:03.680 Yeah, that's a good point.

00:53:05.620 I had a guy who, very successful, and he got into cycling during the day, because he

00:53:12.300 wanted to meet other men who were very successful.

00:53:14.700 And he's like, these guys are all cyclists, and they're doing it in the day.

00:53:18.100 And he was the youngest guy there, and people would always ask him what he did for work,

00:53:22.320 because he's with these 65, 70-year-old, very successful men cycling in the middle of

00:53:27.560 the day.

00:53:27.960 And he's like, that's where they are, so that's what I do.

00:53:30.360 It's very interesting.

00:53:31.460 That's genius, yeah.

00:53:33.740 But yeah, I mean, the approach, like, approach sounds weird with a guy, but it's very simply

00:53:38.880 like, hey man, like, I'm trying to get big, or big biceps, or bigger legs, and you look

00:53:44.860 like you've got a good physique, and you know what you're doing.

00:53:46.900 Do you mind giving me a couple of pointers?

00:53:49.320 Exactly.

00:53:49.620 It's so easy, but I do not know why we complicate this so much.

00:53:54.220 The stakes, we make the stakes too high, I think.

00:53:56.220 Exactly.

00:53:56.580 And people haven't been taught.

00:53:58.340 Nobody just told men that they can do this.

00:54:00.760 Hey, you can just go and talk to the gym.

00:54:02.140 And they don't understand why it matters.

00:54:05.620 Because I believe intelligent men, before they do something, they have to understand why

00:54:09.100 it matters.

00:54:09.920 That's why when people go to Andrew Huberman's YouTube channel, and they watch the two to

00:54:13.100 three hour presentation on what alcohol does to your brain, you're much more likely to

00:54:17.040 reduce your alcohol consumption a lot, because you understand it's a neurotoxin, it's a group

00:54:21.860 A carcinogen, it fosters the growth of five to six different types of cancer cells, it's

00:54:26.900 a depressant, it reduces testosterone.

00:54:29.380 Oh, wow.

00:54:31.060 Yeah, so they need to understand why it matters.

00:54:32.580 So you need to spend time with quality male friends, because Johan Hari says the number

00:54:36.600 one reason for anxiety and depression, lost connections, is a lack of quality social contact.

00:54:41.680 A lack of quality social contact is the number one thing, and especially over the last couple

00:54:46.000 of years of people who have been so isolated, you need to spend, and people think they spend

00:54:49.440 a lot of time with men.

00:54:50.540 No, you need it every day, or several days a week.

00:54:54.100 It's very important for you.

00:54:55.300 If you want optimal levels of happiness, spend time with quality men.

00:54:59.540 And cut out the wrong ones that make you feel bad.

00:55:01.420 It sounds so stupid, but if you listen to your gut, you know, they now know that there

00:55:05.060 is a mini brain in your gut, there's nerve cells in your gut, gut intelligence, heart intelligence.

00:55:09.480 If you learn to listen to that, do you feel like spending time with that person or not?

00:55:14.740 That feeling is right.

00:55:16.800 Listen to that more.

00:55:18.720 Yeah, that's interesting.

00:55:20.180 You said something about intelligent men needing to know the why.

00:55:23.740 I think I've seen some videos and some content you've put out there that suggest, tell me if

00:55:28.620 I'm wrong on this, but suggest that hyper-intelligent men sometimes have a harder time figuring out

00:55:37.280 ways to connect with women because they tend to overthink, they can't be lighthearted and

00:55:44.580 play, they take things way too seriously.

00:55:47.320 I mean, I imagine there's a whole litany of reasons that is.

00:55:49.460 Is that true, that you've found that to be true?

00:55:52.600 Yes, but it's just a pattern that they can easily change because what, for example, what

00:55:57.920 does being self-conscious mean?

00:55:59.780 It means my focus is on myself as opposed to the other person.

00:56:03.600 You need to become other conscious.

00:56:04.880 You can literally turn your attention outwards and in that moment, you're not self-conscious

00:56:08.060 anymore.

00:56:08.840 You're other conscious, if you will.

00:56:10.820 I'm overthinking.

00:56:11.680 Okay, what's the opposite of overthinking?

00:56:13.420 Take an action.

00:56:14.620 So these are just habits.

00:56:16.060 Oh, asking questions, sharing, being logical, being fun and lighthearted.

00:56:19.700 Now you need humor.

00:56:20.480 How do I learn that?

00:56:21.200 Okay, well, stand-up comedy.

00:56:22.820 They're just habits.

00:56:23.720 You're absolutely right.

00:56:24.500 I agree.

00:56:24.880 A lot of the time, I've worked with a lot of guys who are really, really successful and

00:56:28.940 really intelligent and, you know, sometimes they get stuck in their head and sometimes

00:56:32.540 they have a hard time connecting, but it's just patterns.

00:56:35.740 It's not who we are.

00:56:37.320 I don't believe, I have a core belief.

00:56:38.860 There's no pattern that is you, truly part of who you are, that you need to keep.

00:56:45.360 You can just change the patterns that limit you.

00:56:47.780 I think so.

00:56:48.480 In those ways, it's just communication.

00:56:49.840 It's not becoming, now, you will, I will never like cooking.

00:56:53.540 Fine, is that a limitation?

00:56:54.660 Maybe you couldn't give a fuck, right?

00:56:56.300 Don't care.

00:56:57.300 But I, that's not a pattern.

00:56:59.540 But in terms of if there's an outcome you want and freedom of expression, being free

00:57:02.960 in your expression, what does it mean?

00:57:04.640 I have a thought and I'm going to say it.

00:57:07.220 Okay.

00:57:07.780 Because most men have thoughts, they have a little inkling and then they suppress it.

00:57:11.540 Because that's what they've been trying to do in their business or in their career.

00:57:14.540 They have a thought, couldn't say that, or need to change that, need to filter that.

00:57:17.720 They have so many layers on themselves that prevent them from connecting.

00:57:21.220 And that's a process that needs to be removed.

00:57:23.300 And when you remove those, oh, then you become free in your expression and lighthearted.

00:57:28.140 And then it becomes easy to be around people.

00:57:29.960 And then I say you trade the width for the depth.

00:57:33.260 Now, you still need a lot of people.

00:57:35.020 You still need to meet a lot more people than you think.

00:57:36.980 But then you go deep because you're just, it's easy to be around the right people.

00:57:41.780 There is a saying, obviously you can make a counter argument to it, but there's still

00:57:45.700 truth in it.

00:57:46.220 You can't say the wrong thing to the right person.

00:57:48.600 Obviously you can in a way, but largely it's very difficult to offend somebody who you're

00:57:54.640 really compatible with, you know?

00:57:56.240 Well, and usually even if you do, a person that you're compatible with will, I think

00:58:01.800 I saw this from the Gottman Institute that the, there was two primary predictors of long-term

00:58:07.240 relational success.

00:58:08.660 Number one was kissing each other and saying goodbye when you leave the house in the morning.

00:58:13.580 And the other one was choosing, deliberately making a choice to see the best in your partner

00:58:19.580 and give them the benefit of the doubt.

00:58:21.720 Just a choice.

00:58:22.340 Yeah, you said that like an asshole, but I also still love you and I know you're convicted

00:58:27.280 and see the positive in that rather than the negative.

00:58:30.480 100%.

00:58:30.880 One of the biggest qualification criteria you should look for in the right woman is the

00:58:35.560 assumption of positive intent.

00:58:37.240 Because people who aren't right for you, they will by default assume negative intent.

00:58:41.200 We're all going to do both at some point, but is your default to assume positive intent

00:58:46.180 or negative intent?

00:58:47.400 Are you easily offended?

00:58:49.280 Yeah.

00:58:49.380 Assuming positive intent, crucial.

00:58:53.320 Yeah.

00:58:54.080 Well, this has been fascinating.

00:58:55.460 There's always so much that we can go through.

00:58:57.120 And I know guys, the last time we had a conversation, I looked, it was a little over two years ago,

00:59:02.400 did really, really well.

00:59:03.860 I think guys are fascinated with this, this discussion and conversation.

00:59:06.780 I like the psychological side of it as well, because I don't think that the things that

00:59:14.040 you teach apply exclusively to just being in the dating space.

00:59:18.460 I think they apply in the boardroom and in friendships and in family dynamics with children,

00:59:24.000 for example.

00:59:24.560 Obviously, not that romantic appeal or interest, but there's still things that you're teaching

00:59:30.100 that apply very, very broadly.

00:59:32.560 And that's what I appreciate about what you do.

00:59:34.360 Yeah, man.

00:59:34.720 No, thank you so much.

00:59:35.520 It's always fun.

00:59:36.220 Yeah.

00:59:36.320 I remember like two-ish years ago or something like that.

00:59:38.700 It was an awesome conversation.

00:59:39.580 Yeah, right around there.

00:59:40.120 No, man.

00:59:40.400 So much respect for what you do as well and really enjoy it always.

00:59:44.380 Thank you.

00:59:45.240 Thank you, man.

00:59:45.980 Well, tell the guys how to connect with you and we'll get them over your way if they're interested.

00:59:49.980 Yeah.

00:59:50.160 Thank you.

00:59:50.400 We have a YouTube channel with my name, David Mason.

00:59:52.600 We have an Instagram page.

00:59:55.220 We have a much, much, much, much smaller podcast on Spotify that they can check out.

01:00:02.460 I've seen your account grow on Instagram specifically and probably YouTube as well.

01:00:07.320 I don't spend much time over there, but I've seen your account grow over the past couple

01:00:11.140 of years just astronomically.

01:00:13.580 And I can't help but think, man, the quality of what you guys put out, you and your fiancee,

01:00:17.820 Fernanda, is that her name?

01:00:18.780 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:00:19.220 Yeah, I love your guys' energy together and the way that you feed off of each other.

01:00:25.220 It's actually a really cool relationship dynamic to see in real time.

01:00:29.140 But guys, check it out.

01:00:30.520 You'll love it.

01:00:30.880 You won't be disappointed if he's going to help you on your romantic relationships.

01:00:34.280 Thank you, David.

01:00:34.740 Appreciate it, man.

01:00:35.580 Thank you, Ryan.

01:00:36.100 Thank you so much.

01:00:38.940 Gentlemen, there you go.

01:00:39.720 My conversation with David Mason.

01:00:41.540 I hope you enjoyed this one as much as the first one seemed to really resonate with a lot

01:00:45.120 of you guys.

01:00:45.720 And I hope this one did as well.

01:00:47.020 He's a valuable, valuable wealth of knowledge when it comes to dating and being authentic

01:00:56.520 and being genuine and trying to build relationships, whether you're trying to build new relationships

01:01:00.980 or rekindle, re-spark existing relationships.

01:01:05.960 So I highly encourage that you check it out.

01:01:07.520 He's got some really good information on the gram, on how to connect and build romance and

01:01:14.360 connection and intimacy.

01:01:15.620 And I think you guys will get a lot of value from it.

01:01:17.380 Check it out.

01:01:18.580 Outside of that, check out The Men's Forge.

01:01:20.940 Again, that event is May 1st through the 4th, 2025.

01:01:23.920 So the next couple of weeks, and hopefully we'll see you just outside of St. Louis in a couple

01:01:27.300 of weeks.

01:01:28.340 All right, guys, you've got your marching orders.

01:01:29.900 And we will be back tomorrow for our Ask Me Anything.

01:01:34.140 Until then, go out there, take action, become a man you are meant to be.

01:01:40.280 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

01:01:43.260 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:01:47.260 We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

01:01:50.400 We'll be right back.

Order of Man - April 22, 2025

DAVID MEESSEN ｜ The Work of Building Attraction

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