Dealing with Anger, Why We Get Angry, and Not Betraying Yourself ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 1 minute
Words per Minute
185.37032
Summary
On this episode of the Order of Man podcast, we are joined by our good friend and former co-worker, Kip, to talk about a variety of topics. We discuss how technology has changed the way we live our lives and the impact it has had on our perception of the world. We also discuss Kip's recent trip to the Dave Chappelle concert, and answer some of your questions.
Transcript
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You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.
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When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.
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You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong.
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This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.
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At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
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Kip, what's up man? It's great to see you. We had a little technical difficulty, but we're working through it.
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We're capable. We're capable of figuring it out.
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We're able to connect here about four hours north of me.
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Obviously, with the podcast, I talk with people who are all over the world.
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It's amazing, and it's also infuriating at the same time.
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One of the funniest moments or little comedy routines or sketches that I ever heard
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If you haven't watched that, I think he was on the Tonight Show or something,
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and he's talking with whoever, Fallon or whoever it was, Camel, I don't remember.
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He just goes off on technology and commercial flight. It's amazing. It's really, really good.
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Just type in, I'd say, Louis C.K., everything's amazing, and go watch that because it's hilarious
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Well, and it even talks about how entitled we get with technology almost instantly, right?
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I mean, here we are connecting through zeros and ones.
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That's a fascinating thing to me is how can you hear me right now?
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Or even a record player, which obviously is outdated technology, but it's like,
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how does it take the little raises in a record player and translate them into noise that you can hear?
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On that note, speaking of music, I'm not a big music guy, but I took my two older boys to a concert this last weekend,
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tried to connect with you, but you're busy building a house.
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We went and saw Granger Smith this weekend and he's been on the podcast now a couple of times.
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He'd become a good friend over the past several years.
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Like his ability to connect with people is, is, is incredible.
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And then we were fortunate because we know him and his brother, Tyler, we were able to go see him after the show for, for a bit before he headed out.
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Cause he's got his farewell tour, but man, it was, it was really cool.
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It was cool to spend time with the boys and him and his brother.
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So we're going to field questions today from Facebook, facebook.com slash group slash order of man.
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I'm thinking you should just post that video on your social, but probably everyone that listens to the podcast probably follows you on social media already.
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Anyway, I don't know if you're not, they can, they can find it.
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I haven't been really that active on social media.
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You know, it's always interesting when you have people who are like, Hey, we send you a link to this thing or a link to the book.
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Like if you heard me talk about a thing or you heard me talk about a book or you can go, I don't need to Google it.
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I'm happy to help and provide some insight that maybe isn't readily Googleable if that's a word, but, uh, yeah, you can, you can exert yourself a little bit.
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How do you control anger before it becomes rage when you want to act like there's no consequences?
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Like, I mean, that's the, isn't that the root of the issue, right?
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Not like, I mean, there's appropriate, there's appropriate situation levels.
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Where I think being angry is, is a justifiable emotion to be experiencing.
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Like, I think we, as men tend to associate the response to the emotion, to the emotion itself.
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No, no punch that wall because you reacted to your anger.
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And I think it's really important that we understand the distinction between the way
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that we feel about things and the way we respond to things.
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I was talking with somebody this weekend about response and reaction.
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It is, if you're reactionary towards your emotions, yeah, you're going to do dumb things.
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You know, I've, I've punched walls and I've, I've lost my cool or yelled at people.
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Like I've done dumb things and they are dumb things, but it's not the emotion.
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So what I would suggest, or at least what's helped me anyways, when I do have this locked
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in, which is not often is just lengthen out the time a little bit, just like, you know,
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You know, Hey, my blood's boiling, or she said something to me that upset me, or the kids
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aren't behaving the way I think they should, or they're not listening.
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I had this last night, my kids were being pretty rambunctious and rowdy and you know,
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that's fine to a degree, but it was getting a little out of hand.
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And so I noticed that like my blood pressure's rising, I'm getting frustrated.
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And I very calmly said, listen, and I said that, I said, I'm getting very frustrated with
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I'm not going to blow up, but you need to change the behavior right now.
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And so that means that you need to go in your room and chill for a little bit.
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So you go to your room, hang out five, 10 minutes, and then we'll re-engage in this.
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And he went down to his room and chilled out for five minutes and came back up and I was
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So what I would suggest again, just to reiterate is just don't,
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Sometimes we say, don't react to anger and frustration and these types of what we consider
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But also, I think we also need to be aware of positive emotions too.
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If you're going to react to positive emotions, you can respond, but if you react to it and
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you're always just so emotional, it's like wham, wham, wham, wham, up and down roller coaster.
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I think we level that out a little bit by creating some margin and some space.
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And that gives us some time to reflect like my kid.
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I'm frustrated with him, but I don't want to yell at him.
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And then we can have a real discussion about what's going on.
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Let me ask you this, Ryan, what do you, what do you, what just talk about getting, um, getting
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to those positions or what do you do to avoid getting in particular areas where you get too
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frustrated or you want to lash out from a, from an anger perspective?
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I have an idea, but obviously I'm, I'm trying to get it out of you, but like, what are the,
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I don't know, leading up to proactive things and advice that you would give around not getting
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to it or not getting too angry or reacting out of anger.
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And, and I get angry when people cross my boundaries and they cross my boundaries.
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When two things, people will cross your boundaries into one of two ways.
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Um, and then the other one is you're not good at upholding them.
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If you're getting angry, it's because somebody probably crossed a boundary that you either
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a failed to communicate or be failed to uphold and enforce.
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So with my, with my kid, it was my second son last night, just being a kind of a jerk
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And I've communicated that, but in the past I've said, Hey, don't do that.
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You know, maybe it wasn't as strong as a boundary.
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And so he crossed the boundary, he crossed the line and I have to enforce that.
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It's if the expectation is clear, I haven't always been great at that.
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I'm not always great at keeping that boundary in place, but yeah, I don't want to be mad
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And so I have to establish and communicate boundaries and then enforce them.
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If I have a deadline with somebody that I'm working with and they fail to meet that deadline,
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So I have to communicate the boundary, which is the deadline.
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And if they miss the deadline, then this is something a lot of guys struggle with, myself
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You actually have to tell them you cannot sweep it under the rug because then you're just
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So you have to say, Kip, we had an agreement, you know, you would have this done by June
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Is there some sort of circumstance I'm not aware of that you can help me understand?
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And maybe we need to readjust the timeline or like, tell me what's going on.
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Because it's important to me that we get these things done on time.
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That's the kind of conversation that men need to have more.
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Well, and what's great about that, Ryan, is you're serving me because when you start
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saying, hey, Kip, this was the commitment, you didn't keep the commitment, what do we
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The next time you say, hey, Kip, can we do X, Y, Z or could you do X, Y, Z?
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Am I a little bit more present to that commitment?
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Am I a little bit more careful going, well, you know, I don't want to over promise because
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And so now I start communicating my commitments more realistically when you're being held accountable
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If we constantly just never do the follow-up portion, then when you go, oh, Kip, can I
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We just promise willy-nilly all over the place when we're not held accountable, right, to
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So you're actually helping me too is ultimately what I'm trying to illustrate.
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So one thing that I had, and I'm assuming this is the case because I've heard you say
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this as well, but for me, whenever I'm like highly agitated, like I'm upset, I'm lashing
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out or whatever, it's because I'm taking on too much.
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And I'm not, and I'm not creating enough margin.
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Like you, you use that term a lot, have enough margin.
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And it's usually a result of not having that margin in my life that, that causes me to get
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Isn't that a manifestation of lack of boundaries though?
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Because people will come to you at the office and they're like, Hey, will you do this?
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And you're like, shit, you know, I got all this stuff I need to do.
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And I can't really do that today, but I want to be helpful.
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You just, you just, you just tore down the boundaries yourself on that one.
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And it's hard because look, everybody listening to this podcast, we want to be helpful.
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You wouldn't listen to a podcast about being, being a better man.
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If you didn't want to be more helpful, if you didn't want to serve others, if you didn't
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And so we equate our ability to lead with our capacity to take on responsibility and
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it's good, but taken to the extreme, you just can't, you just can't do it all.
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And, and I've noticed that over the past year, I've, I really burned out for a while.
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And not only did I burn out, I crashed and burned.
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I crashed and now that I've taken a step back, I've realized, oh, you know what?
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It's weird to say, especially with what I would say, like a self-help or self-development
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You took on responsibilities that weren't yours.
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You took on projects and tasks and the feelings of others that were unimportant to you or irrelevant
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And so now I'm trying to dust myself off and stand up.
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And I feel like I am standing back up now and establishing those boundaries.
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And if, because I have other things that are important too, and that, that prioritization
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I mean, people who listen to the podcast make comments about, oh, you know, the tone and
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the, you know, the other thing that's a unintended consequence of it or benefit, I would say is just
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You know, sometimes I thought, well, if I don't do everything or I don't try to save
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everybody that I'm not being empathetic or kind or caring, I've actually had the capacity
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to serve other people greater than I've had before.
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Not everybody, but a select few people that I can really pour into in a meaningful and significant
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This is my first week, not running a practice and being the, the CPO.
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I looked at my calendar and I was like, I'm just going to get work done.
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Like, I don't have like this balance of like, literally like kind of two jobs.
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I was like super excited about like, oh, I'm just going to get so much stuff done today.
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Gene Hanks, with all that's going on in this world today, why are people not talking about
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It's affecting the functionality of everyday business worldwide.
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There is minimal practical experience in the office.
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I work construction and this sequence to build big projects has no rhythm.
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Are you doing some Googling generational riptide?
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I thought you were still talking, but yeah, I know.
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Based on what he's saying, I wonder if he's referring to what seems to be a diminishing
00:16:09.860
I haven't heard that term generational riptide.
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I didn't really see anything that related directly to that.
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This is probably because like baby boomers leaving the, because he said there's minimal
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practical work experience in the offices, et cetera.
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And so there's a huge skill set and experience being lost.
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I think that when there is scarcity, like we're talking about right now, that presents
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When there's abundance, there's, I think there's fewer opportunities.
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It's the reason why people in 2008 and some of the most challenging economic positions
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that we had in the country, why there was a select few people who did actually really,
00:17:01.460
really well because they were looking for opportunities that the average person wouldn't
00:17:08.280
So, you know, we can sit by and we can say, oh, you know, youth these days, kids these
00:17:12.980
And I don't know if that's just something that you say as you get older, because I certainly
00:17:16.140
said that, or, or if it's accurate, it's probably both.
00:17:18.960
You know, it's, there's probably a diminishing skill set for certain things, but also, I mean,
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my, my seven-year-old can navigate technology just as well as I can.
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So are we taking that into consideration or are we stuck in our ways thinking, oh, well,
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you know, he doesn't know how to, um, he doesn't know how to put a, a horseshoe on
00:17:45.820
Like, I'm not going to say that's outdated, but it's a little less relevant than it was
00:17:51.960
So are, are we just saying they're not like us?
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Like I want them to learn new skills and, and, and what can I learn from them?
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And then what, what's cool about this is that you might find fewer people who are qualified
00:18:08.760
to work, for example, in your current occupation, but those, those few, man, you could really
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And then you couple that with technology and younger generations ability to, to leverage
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You only need one person to do what 10 or 15 or 20 people could do before because of AI
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and computer programming and applications and this sort of thing.
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I would say of turning into the grumpy old man who thinks that we have to do it the way
00:18:46.420
And, and I'm not, look, I'm not, I'm not knocking those guys.
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Like my grandpa, uh, like men that I know that have served in those, in those wars, including
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Vietnam and Korea, I'm not knocking what they did.
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I'm saying times are different and we have some real opportunities to leverage, but also
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This is one thing I hear a lot with men who have daughters who are getting married and what
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they'll say is, you know, or, or dating is, you know, he's, she's dating his kid.
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You weren't number one when you were a kid dating your current wife.
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So my ex father-in-law who probably thought that a lot was actually pretty accurate.
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But, um, that's your future son-in-law and not son-in-law.
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And it's the same with an employee relationship.
00:20:15.820
Now it might not go into a personal love type situation like family, but you care about them.
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You want them to succeed, whether they're with you or not, by the way, like maybe they're just
00:20:28.680
I don't know, but whatever that timeframe is, you know, a real opportunity to pour into
00:20:35.020
And the more that we men listen to this podcast and part of order of man, do that the better
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So I look at it more as an opportunity than a negative.
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And also there's opportunities to learn for you things that you didn't even know existed.
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This is a little bit long when Carson, I'll, I'm going to beat it up a little bit and just
00:20:57.500
So don't read the whole thing, but Carson, we, when I grow as a man in part, thanks to
00:21:02.040
you, gentlemen, I feel like I'm becoming the best version of myself.
00:21:04.780
My wife seems to have paused on her self-growth.
00:21:12.340
I don't care necessarily about the baby weight, but she has, has spite for me for losing weight
00:21:21.800
Being that I work full time, basically, basically get up at five, get home.
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I will spend time with the kids so she can hit the gym from time to time, you know, constant
00:21:35.700
I try to help make healthy food, but she seems to still get mad at me for just losing weight.
00:21:42.740
So he's kind of on this path, losing weight, eating healthier, and she's kind of left behind
00:21:51.500
He does have some questions around, you know, parents.
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They do argue about his parents quite a bit being somewhat manipulative, but ultimately
00:22:09.700
I don't know if you have other kids or if she's gone through this before, what it was
00:22:24.080
Uh, but it sounds like maybe some postpartum might, might be taking place, but compare that
00:22:30.680
I think that's a good litmus test for how she might respond when she has babies, but
00:22:35.480
You know, the hormones are all out of whack and she's feeling uncomfortable and she's probably
00:22:39.780
not real, you know, proud of her body right now because what a baby will do to a woman,
00:22:46.480
But, you know, I, from a woman's perspective, I imagine it's pretty hard to think, you know,
00:22:49.900
I was in this, I was in great shape and now, you know, I've put on this weight and, you
00:22:56.020
There's even medical things, uh, that, that need to be, you know, repaired and taken care
00:22:59.980
Like that's a hard, I mean, that's physically, that's a hard thing.
00:23:04.780
Uh, the other thing I would say is what you're doing, is it at her expense?
00:23:08.980
And I don't think you're deliberately and purposely doing that, but you should consider
00:23:12.520
that is, is your fitness and your nutrition and your diet and all of these other things
00:23:18.280
coming at her expense, meaning you can leave, you can go, you're like, Hey, you want, I
00:23:25.480
So when I get home, I'm going to go on a, on a hour run, wouldn't that be nice?
00:23:31.820
Like, wouldn't that be nice, but here I am taking care of this baby.
00:23:41.800
This baby's sucking all the nutrients out of my body.
00:23:48.360
And now you're going to go on a run when you get home from work and I got to nurse the
00:23:55.900
If, if the roles were reversed, we'd probably feel very much the same way.
00:24:00.340
So I don't know the answer necessarily to that.
00:24:04.060
I just, I think it gives us a perspective of how to do it.
00:24:06.940
But one thing I would do is I would make sure to include her in the process rather than it
00:24:17.440
Maybe it isn't that maybe it's, Hey hon, uh, you know, why don't we let one of the kids
00:24:24.660
Why don't we just let one of the kids watch, keep an eye on, on the baby and we'll put it
00:24:28.560
a monitor up or whatever, like technology, you've got technology, right?
00:24:32.380
And let's just, you and I take 20 minutes and let's go for a walk.
00:24:37.880
I think she, I think any reasonable woman would actually really appreciate that.
00:24:44.420
Like she wants to get away from the baby for a minute.
00:24:52.140
Um, I think if you included her a little bit more and you might think, well, you know,
00:24:55.740
I'm training for this marathon is right now the time to be training for a marathon.
00:25:05.800
What, what can you do to include her in the process?
00:25:08.780
And then the other thing I would say, and I want to hear what you have to say on this
00:25:11.280
kit too, is don't assume, and I don't know the situation, but don't assume that just because
00:25:16.040
you're developing yourself in one route or one Avenue, that that's her path to self-development.
00:25:29.500
And you highlight it all and you dog ear it all.
00:25:31.520
And you're like, hon, you got to read this book, right?
00:25:41.220
I'm not saying she doesn't care about self-development.
00:25:43.200
I'm saying she doesn't care about the masculinity manifesto or doesn't care about the book
00:25:50.080
If you don't, then you don't care about self-development.
00:25:54.500
Her self-development journey is different than yours.
00:25:57.600
And so if she's exhibiting any sort of, again, self-development in her own way, then you
00:26:08.320
So if she's like, you know, man, I really want to learn how to crochet.
00:26:13.680
We got to be really careful saying, oh, that's dumb.
00:26:21.660
You know what you should do is you should go down to the local, uh, fabric store.
00:26:28.000
I don't even craft store or whatever, like what Michaels or whatever.
00:26:31.740
And you should buy a book about how to crochet.
00:26:34.880
And then you should talk to the woman there and say, Hey, like, can you point me in the
00:26:41.460
And you should buy that for her and you should bring it home.
00:26:45.180
You should say, Hey hon, you mentioned crochet.
00:26:46.740
Like I know you're here with the kids a lot and it's probably hard and you don't have much
00:26:53.340
And this lady at Michael's helped me get this like starter kit.
00:26:57.820
Self-development doesn't look the same as us, but you know what?
00:27:01.480
Number one, it's going to make her better because she's not going to be so irritable because
00:27:04.820
she's doing things she's, she likes, and she's has some purpose in, in those
00:27:10.960
And then she's going to love you because she knows you care about her.
00:27:18.220
You know, the only thought I had is, is just a different angle on the same thing that you
00:27:22.380
just said is like, I feel, um, when we're about something, we find fulfillment and joy.
00:27:35.860
You know, like what, what, what does she want to tackle?
00:27:39.680
What's something that she's want to accomplish and scale.
00:27:49.320
It might be something drastically different, but you know what I mean?
00:27:52.520
You're, you're pumped up only about going to the gym because it gives you a fulfillment.
00:27:56.680
We'll help her perhaps help her and support her and her identifying what that is for herself.
00:28:05.980
And sometimes our actions and our words are at direct odds with each other.
00:28:12.400
And what I've seen myself and other men do is let's just assume for a second that your
00:28:18.360
wife was ready to go with a physical side of things.
00:28:30.660
Because that's what you're saying you want, right?
00:28:32.740
You're like, Hey, I just, I want her to get in shape.
00:28:36.160
She's kind of falling behind a little bit where I am.
00:28:44.220
Or would you be upset that food wasn't on the table?
00:28:47.980
Would you be upset that maybe there's a guy at the gym that, you know, she's talking too
00:28:54.420
Would you be upset that the house isn't as exactly clean as you'd like it to be?
00:28:58.980
Would you be upset about all of these other things?
00:29:01.940
Because if you're upset about those things and I'm speaking personally, then what you're
00:29:05.900
saying is I want her to be on the self-development path.
00:29:07.880
But as soon as she gets on the path, then I get butthurt because all these other things
00:29:14.460
So you say you want that, but if that were the case, would your behavior align with what
00:29:38.600
Does taking a family vacation stress you out at times?
00:29:50.980
And after three days, it's like, all right, time to get back to work.
00:29:57.940
A lot of that stress melts away when I do the planning on the front end, though.
00:30:01.560
Like, I've got two big trips coming up this year.
00:30:04.420
Next week, actually, I'll be in Hawaii for 10 days on a hunt with my oldest son.
00:30:09.420
And then in July, I'll be hunting in Africa with my two oldest boys and will be gone for
00:30:20.500
I'm going to enjoy the trip because I plan ahead of time.
00:30:27.140
All the things that need to get taken care of that are typically my duties are delegated
00:30:31.240
to people who are qualified to do it because we train those people and I'm confident in
00:30:38.040
And I'm just going to be present because I can.
00:30:42.260
Part of that is going to be letting people know within our organization what they need
00:30:52.440
And that's another thing is making sure you're bringing in the right people and that you've
00:30:59.600
You have to believe in their performance and their ability to figure things out.
00:31:02.960
And they'll have to figure a few things out in your absence.
00:31:06.940
You have to give them the tools and resources they need to be able to win.
00:31:09.800
Because if you don't give them that, then you don't have any right to be mad at them
00:31:15.520
Um, and then know how you travel to like, some people want to have everything mapped
00:31:22.780
out and other people are like, no, let's just go and figure it out along the way.
00:31:26.520
And for the planners, the spontaneity stresses them out for the spontaneous, the planning
00:31:34.520
So I think it's good to understand that about yourself.
00:31:38.480
Do you want to make sure you know exactly what you're going to be at all times?
00:31:43.680
And if you want to be spontaneous, then do that.
00:31:45.400
And don't feel like you have to put yourself into this rigid box while you're on vacation.
00:31:49.520
I tend to be someone more on the planning side where I want to know what we're doing each
00:31:52.660
day and when and why and all this kind of stuff.
00:31:55.380
But the spontaneous, I mean, that's fine too for other people.
00:31:59.840
It's not great for me just because of my personality, but I know that about myself.
00:32:03.260
And so some people say, you just need to relax.
00:32:08.700
It is relaxing for me to have a plan and then just go do the plan.
00:32:14.300
So just know yourself and know, know your people too.
00:32:17.720
Like if you're going with your family, your wife might not be like that.
00:32:20.540
And so if everything's locked in, then just it's okay.
00:32:28.300
Jose police, how do you handle people that see your success and want to take your place
00:32:33.980
in a leadership role you are in thinking that they are that thinking when they are not as
00:32:56.880
But here's, here's one of the problem, the dilemmas with not training people because you're
00:33:03.380
If you don't train your replacement, you will always be in that position.
00:33:10.620
You have to train somebody to replace you so you can move up the ladder.
00:33:16.240
Because if I'm your boss and I'm like, well, shit, Kip, like you're amazing at this.
00:33:28.060
You do some things you really like, but I really can't have you do that because I don't
00:33:43.060
I, I'm not, I'm not, I'm a little frustrated with the question, but like, but I, but I know
00:33:52.120
If they want to be in that position, then teach them everything that you can to help
00:34:00.340
There is a risk associated with that, but that risk is so small compared to the potential
00:34:07.640
And there might be isolated incidents where that actually hurts you, but over the long
00:34:13.480
haul, if you adopt this idea of, I'm going to train my replacements, I'm going to lift
00:34:23.640
There's going to be instances where people take advantage of you, throw you under the
00:34:27.780
Like there's going to be that, but over the long haul, come on.
00:34:31.860
You are going to win and you're going to help other people win and you'll be unstoppable.
00:34:39.500
The answer is you train that person to replace you.
00:34:43.160
And that's the black belt move because the ultimate position is what?
00:34:49.880
That is the next step is your ability to develop and grow other people into solid leaders.
00:34:58.980
For me, if you don't mind me suggesting, I think this has to, well, strategize like tactically,
00:35:06.960
like how do you get out of your own head to do this?
00:35:09.840
I like to think about what is the intent and the bigger objective?
00:35:19.220
To, I don't know, have the Iron Council win, to the company to have better growth.
00:35:24.220
Like focus on how do you complete the mission and the objective and lose yourself in that.
00:35:34.920
And if that means you training up people, if that means you doing this, that means you
00:35:40.480
And what's great is, you know this, Ryan, or at least I feel like you would feel this
00:35:45.000
way as, and most leaders would is those are the people that are like the talent you never
00:35:52.100
Those are the people that are highly valuable when they step in and they're connected to
00:35:57.060
what we're about as an org and they're not protecting their ivory tower and, and their
00:36:08.120
We, we know those people, those people that are just, it's all about trying to look good.
00:36:16.620
They don't trust them because we're not sure if this is what's best for the company or is
00:36:22.640
And, and, and when people don't know what your intent is because they can't trust it because
00:36:26.700
you're making about them and not about the company, man, you're really putting yourself
00:36:34.840
I, one of the questions along those same lines, Kip, that I, that I like to ask myself
00:36:38.880
is what would the man I want to be do in this situation or, or saying it said a different
00:36:45.360
way, what would be the man, what, what would the man that I would want to follow do in this
00:36:54.100
And there's consequences, by the way, you might lose your job.
00:37:02.000
I'm not telling you there aren't risks when you say, it's still the right thing.
00:37:07.580
I'll get, and I'll give you a little bit of an example.
00:37:09.380
I won't get into specifics, but a lot of guys know about my, my divorce.
00:37:13.540
You know, I've been divorced for about four months, I think is what it's been now.
00:37:18.280
And, uh, I've been pretty accommodating with, with her and we've worked really well together,
00:37:24.960
but there have been moments where I'm like, well, I don't want to do that.
00:37:27.900
I'm like, I'm not, I'm not doing that, but you know what?
00:37:32.300
And I may be bragging a little bit here, but I'm trying to illustrate a point to my credit.
00:37:36.020
I have done everything I possibly can do to treat her as fairly as possible.
00:37:43.200
And if I've aired, I've aired on the side of her getting the better end of the deal.
00:37:49.380
And, and, and I'm, again, I'm not trying to brag, but in every circumstance that has been my goal.
00:37:56.240
And although there's moments where I'm like, well, you know, I get upset or whatever.
00:38:01.720
I can always look in the mirror and I can say, you know what?
00:38:07.420
And yeah, maybe it costs you a little more money, or maybe it costs you a few,
00:38:15.200
But I can always look in the mirror always and know that during this entire situation,
00:38:25.780
If I was dropped into this situation again, I would do it the exact same way that I did this one.
00:38:31.800
And there is a tremendous sense of pride and satisfaction and peace, peace that comes with that.
00:38:42.000
So this is a perfect segue to this next question, because I think they're tight,
00:38:45.800
look quite related based upon what you just said.
00:38:48.980
So Robert Moore's question, what can one do to develop a stronger self-esteem and worth?
00:38:55.160
I lack both and constantly see myself as a loser.
00:39:02.900
I think it's really important that we detach outcomes from our worth.
00:39:08.100
And I wanted to find that a little bit because there's, okay, so there's two sides of this coin.
00:39:18.520
But I think that worth and value are two different things.
00:39:25.340
So we have an amount of value that we add into our interactions and people that we know in our lives.
00:39:32.760
It's not always measurable, but it is something that we add.
00:39:42.840
It might be that you provide some sort of stability to a person's life or you make them happy, right?
00:39:49.520
Like there's all different ways that we can add value to people's lives.
00:39:53.260
And then on the other side of the coin, there's worth.
00:39:55.400
And worth is unlimited and worth is typically untapped potential.
00:40:14.680
So one thing we did when I was in the financial planning business is we would look at people's life insurance and their needs as a family.
00:40:22.080
And we would calculate what a family would leave, for example, if the husband and father died.
00:40:30.060
We would look at his income potential over a period of time based on how old he was.
00:40:36.880
And then we would make a calculation of, you know, here you need $5 million of insurance, for example, let's say.
00:40:42.840
But how do you calculate a dad coming home to wrestle with his kids?
00:40:50.360
How do you calculate a man who comes home and sits down with his wife and has a conversation about her dreams and her hopes and her ambitions and her fears?
00:41:03.380
How do you calculate the thousands of hours of time that you spent throwing a baseball with your child?
00:41:23.980
So you might not be adding a whole lot of value in life right now.
00:41:28.580
There may be ways that you could really improve your ability to add value to people's lives.
00:41:37.600
So when you ask the question, how do you develop, what did you say?
00:41:51.860
But I'm saying what I was going to say is you've got to find a way to bridge the gap between your unlimited potential and worth as a human being and the value that you're providing.
00:42:03.440
The greater the disparity, the less confidence that you'll have.
00:42:10.220
The smaller, the closer, or at least your movement in the right direction, the more confident and the more self-esteem that you'll have because you know you're showing up in a powerful way that's attached to your unlimited potential and worth as a human being.
00:42:29.160
One distinction for Robert, and Ryan, you alluded to it with the integrity gap.
00:42:38.220
Why is integrity part of this conversation really quick?
00:42:42.720
When we are out of integrity, when we choose not to act on what we know is right, it's a form of self-betrayal.
00:42:56.260
If anything other than the betrayal of oneself and the lack of alignment with oneself.
00:43:03.860
And so there is amazing power that comes in knowing that you did what you know you should have done.
00:43:12.860
And when we don't, even if they're small things, we have to excuse it.
00:43:20.860
And there's an element of becoming a victim when we're out of integrity.
00:43:24.480
And I think, I don't know how else to say this, but it breaks our soul a little bit and our confidence in ourselves.
00:43:31.660
And so, Robert, look for those scenarios where you're out of integrity, where you're not doing what you should be doing.
00:43:43.760
By the way, and I don't look at this like, oh my gosh, these guys are calling me out of integrity.
00:43:50.640
And we might be in integrity right now and then out of integrity within the next hour.
00:43:54.660
It is something that we have to constantly work on.
00:43:57.380
But when we've mentioned this, or at least I've mentioned this in the podcast in the past, most times when I'm upset and I come home and I'm overly controlling and I'm mean and I'm rude and short with my family, it's because I'm out of integrity.
00:44:11.780
Because I didn't get the things done that I know I should have gotten done earlier in the day because I miss my workout and I'm out of integrity with myself.
00:44:26.620
And then we look to control and justify our lack of behavior.
00:44:32.380
So that's just a little added context around that integrity gap.
00:44:36.780
All right, John Grove, we were just in a major car accident this past Saturday.
00:44:45.280
How do I help my wife and kids through the trauma of it all while dealing with it at the same time?
00:44:55.620
It sounds like mentally there's some things that need to be worked through.
00:44:59.820
You know, I think just being there and present, I think reprioritizing would be valuable right now.
00:45:05.120
If you're usually putting in, you know, 50 plus hours at work, maybe you got to scale that back for the time being.
00:45:11.660
I think a lot of the times we as men are quick to rush in and want to solve the problem, the exact problem, the acute problem.
00:45:19.580
And there might be moments where you need to do that.
00:45:26.240
But one of my sons has been struggling with the transition of my divorce.
00:45:31.620
And, you know, the best thing that we do together is we play catch outside.
00:45:37.440
And we don't, I don't really talk about the exact specific scenario.
00:45:44.860
I do occasionally, but I don't ask him a whole lot about that.
00:45:47.820
We just throw the baseball and we laugh and we play and we joke.
00:45:51.720
And I hope that he knows that I'm there for him, you know, and I hope that I'm creating avenues and paths for him to, well, for us to be connected.
00:46:04.640
So I think one way that you can do that is not by focusing so heavily, acutely on the exact situation, high achievers tend to do that, is to just back up and then just to be present.
00:46:19.820
And that might mean that maybe you cook wife dinner with your wife this week.
00:46:24.800
You know, you don't need to ask about everything and how she's feeling.
00:46:27.800
Like there's times where that's appropriate, but not all the time.
00:46:29.960
And you go play catch with your kids or, you know, maybe you, maybe you go to one of their dance recitals that you couldn't make before because you're working too heavily.
00:46:39.600
Like it, and it's hard because we think, oh, there's a problem.
00:46:45.440
Just back up longer term perspective, back up a little bit.
00:46:49.720
Let's do everything that we need to do broadly.
00:46:51.620
And then the acute issues, I think, tend to take care of themselves.
00:46:54.600
That said, there are probably some, like you said, some trauma that needs to be dealt with and you might not be able to deal with it.
00:47:03.880
Therapy might be something that you would consider.
00:47:06.520
I won't get into that because I'm not obviously licensed to talk about that.
00:47:09.520
But yeah, I think therapy would be a great resource to look into that your children and your wife and you, by the way, can communicate some of your fears or how this may have changed you or whatever you might be experiencing.
00:47:26.100
And I would definitely look into that if I were you.
00:47:29.960
What would you, anything you would add to that?
00:47:39.200
The presence of our mortality and how fragile life really is and that someday I'm going to lose my parents and my brothers are going to die and my siblings.
00:47:52.160
Is that trauma or is that actually presence to what's really important?
00:47:59.080
You know, just, and I'm not sure if that's the case, but just be careful what we call trauma.
00:48:09.720
You know, maybe, maybe we should, maybe we should be shooken up a little bit.
00:48:23.240
Did you and I switch, switch roles today or what?
00:48:36.340
One of those books, they said, practice negative virtualization.
00:48:44.540
And in the morning I'd wake up and I would imagine that my daughters might die today.
00:48:50.960
And, you know, natural, everyone's probably listening going, oh my gosh, that's really morbid.
00:49:02.780
Dude, when I left that house, I was like, absolutely.
00:49:07.340
I'm not, I'm not leaving this home without them knowing that I love them.
00:49:12.400
Maybe, maybe that's what we, exactly what we should be doing.
00:49:18.360
What, Kenny Smith, what practical things do you start doing every day to move you closer
00:49:26.560
Have the things you've been doing, the question is, have the things that you've been doing
00:49:35.480
It's amazing how that being such a foundational thing for most people.
00:49:42.800
That everybody go exercise and stop eating like shit.
00:49:53.000
Don't go to fast food at night, have meat and rice and vegetables.
00:50:05.480
Because I want to be healthy and I want to have energy and I want to be able to serve
00:50:09.720
people and I want to be in a good mood and I want to be well-rested and I want to look
00:50:16.580
And I'm not the epitome of health by any means, but I'm on that path.
00:50:29.860
I could spend hours upon hours upon hours teaching you how to visualize and come up with
00:50:35.040
a battle plan and your objectives and how to serve other people and how to start a business.
00:50:40.080
I could spend, I could do a seminar for weeks, weeks, and it would still be hard at times
00:50:47.200
Or I could just say, pull up a YouTube video and say, hey, give me a 20 minute workout.
00:50:51.040
And I go to the gym today and I could do 20 minutes or 30 minutes or an hour, whatever
00:50:54.860
And I could do that every single day for the next 365 days.
00:51:07.340
McDonald's, the worst place you could possibly go.
00:51:11.560
I'm not going to say it's high quality, but it's better than the double Mac, whatever that
00:51:16.220
It's so easy and it translates into every single facet of life.
00:51:24.900
It's not possible for you to get your fitness dialed in and then to be a worse husband than
00:51:34.460
It's not possible for you to go train this morning and be less productive at work than
00:51:40.240
you were yesterday when you slept through your alarm.
00:51:49.740
I'm down like over the past, I would say six to eight months down 25 pounds, 25, 30 pounds,
00:51:59.640
Obviously I haven't, you know, no drinking for the past nine or 10 months.
00:52:04.840
My clarity, my focus, even just walking in the mirror, I'm like, yeah, I look good.
00:52:11.160
Like I feel good about myself physically and that translates into relationships, conversations,
00:52:16.140
energy with work, focus, drive, determination, all of it.
00:52:25.940
Cause I wake up and I'm like, I don't want to go to the gym today, but I go to the gym.
00:52:28.800
I didn't want to wake up and this morning at six and wake my son up and go to the gym.
00:52:42.720
How do you deal with all the negative people who will constantly tell you why you can't
00:52:53.900
Do you have people in your life like this at all?
00:52:56.780
When we get these questions, I'm like, man, that's a crappy people to be hanging out with.
00:53:02.760
I don't, I have, there's people online, I would say who are like that, but I don't know
00:53:09.840
Um, I'm trying to be aware of a circumstance, you know, maybe it's a sibling or a parent.
00:53:15.640
Like there's plenty of people that have issues with parents or siblings or friends or, you
00:53:21.220
know, and so I, I don't want to discount it and say that doesn't exist.
00:53:26.920
But again, I think this goes back to your boundaries of, Hey, like I'm not going to deal with those
00:53:33.680
There's a lot of loyalty that people have to family.
00:53:42.060
Be loyal to them abusing you, to them diminishing you.
00:53:47.640
You're telling me you should be loyal because that's your, that's your blood.
00:53:50.920
I don't, I don't, I've never bought into that at all.
00:53:55.500
Um, so what I would say is you replace those individuals with positive individuals who encourage
00:54:04.320
Um, you, you start to work your own integrity gap so that the voice of others becomes less
00:54:12.360
Because when somebody says, Ryan, you're a piece of shit, I know that's not true.
00:54:17.620
I absolutely know that's because you know what?
00:54:20.280
I woke up this morning when my alarm went off and I went to the gym and I didn't act
00:54:26.820
And there's people that I'll, I'll meet and interact with today and I'm going to treat
00:54:31.700
And I'm going to add value to their lives and I'm going to have enjoyable conversations
00:54:35.680
and I'm going to get my work done and I'm going to try to serve others.
00:54:39.880
So yeah, your, your assessment of my performance is very ignorant because I know better.
00:54:50.020
So it's amazing what's possible when we're, yeah, when we're on our path and what kind
00:54:59.380
And it's interesting because people will call it arrogant.
00:55:02.620
You know, they'll say, oh, Ryan, you're being arrogant or not being arrogant.
00:55:12.080
It's, it's an unrealistic or unreasonable evaluation of how good you are.
00:55:28.140
My priorities are my priorities and I treat them, whether it's work or people as my priorities.
00:55:33.620
And that's just an accurate reflection of my current life.
00:55:37.880
I am not so arrogant to say that that would be arrogant to say I've always been like that
00:55:42.080
because that's not true, but that's what it is right now today.
00:55:55.260
Shall we wrap it up or do you want one more question?
00:55:57.920
If we have a quick one, we can take one more and then we can call it a, call it a day.
00:56:01.880
Brian Engelman, what did you learn from a recent failure?
00:56:06.460
Well, I mean, the biggest failure, you know, is the divorce, right?
00:56:15.340
I've also learned that I have, that I, that I load my, my plate too heavy at times,
00:56:21.620
which is why I talked a lot about boundaries earlier in this conversation today.
00:56:24.620
And then I learned that when I do that, I become impatient with the people who are closest
00:56:30.800
Uh, or the highest priority people get, get bulldozed for, yeah.
00:56:39.460
So, um, yeah, I also learned that I am not a very empathetic person and I've tried to be
00:56:48.600
Like just trying to realize what other people are going through, what they're experiencing,
00:56:59.820
People like might be out to get you or, or, you know, people aren't good, like those kinds
00:57:06.740
I'm kind of thinking as I talk here, but yeah, I, I, I'm trying to be more empathetic and just
00:57:12.240
more aware of what other people might be experiencing and not rushing so quickly to harsh judgment.
00:57:19.940
And just be a little bit more kind and softer approach to that.
00:57:30.700
Man, it's a bad that I can't, I mean, I should probably be thinking of.
00:57:41.900
I mean, maybe, maybe it's, maybe it's not as tied to like a recent failure,
00:57:51.220
I, um, I've been doing a lot of driving out to the other house.
00:57:56.700
And, um, and my son, Ian is, is with me on most of those drives.
00:58:03.060
And 21, there's no reason he doesn't have to help me almost every single weekend.
00:58:11.480
And, um, he said something on the way home the other day that I was just like, it was awesome.
00:58:17.040
Um, and he says, first off, he's just engulfed himself in stoicism.
00:58:22.160
Like he really loves Marcus Aurelius and the guy, the good life.
00:58:29.260
And he says, you know what, dad, it's interesting.
00:58:32.600
It's while reading this last book, it's really dawn on me.
00:58:45.000
If I, if I put him in a, in a box of like anti-Christian religion, like he was very against
00:58:53.680
And then he's gotten his own side angle view of Christianity on his terms.
00:59:02.780
And, and it just reiterated the lesson that I have to be okay with people
00:59:09.520
experiencing life on their own path, whatever that path is.
00:59:16.160
And we can support them or whatever, but I need to let go of the expectation that it needs
00:59:20.160
to look the way that I want it to look and, and that they're capable, they're powerful and
00:59:26.400
fully capable of figuring it out and their path is what makes sense for them to, to grow.
00:59:35.500
And, and I saw the fruits of that failure, I guess, let me say it that way.
00:59:39.820
I saw the fruits of that failure, um, in my son over the weekend.
00:59:46.460
That's cool that you guys get time like that, that you can spend time like that.
00:59:49.720
Like we're so busy and inundated with everything else that we very rarely take the time.
00:59:54.400
And that's why I'm really excited for these hunts because it's not work.
01:00:00.240
I've done all the planning, so it's all taken care of.
01:00:02.000
And so I can be fully present with my kids and conversations.
01:00:05.840
And I don't even have, I'm not going with prescriptive conversations.
01:00:10.720
And it sounds like that's what's going on with you and your boy.
01:00:16.720
We have a big call out for you gentlemen today.
01:00:20.440
Um, the iron council membership opens up in 10 days.
01:00:24.940
So on the 15th, or I shouldn't say exactly 10 days, but the 15th of June membership into
01:00:31.160
the iron council will open up roughly for about the remainder of the month of June until July
01:00:39.720
So if you're interested, this is your window of opportunity to sign up.
01:00:44.220
And then that opportunity is going to be closed to be frank until next quarter.
01:00:47.560
So to learn more, go to order of man.com slash iron council to join us, Mr. Mickler, you can
01:00:54.520
follow him on the socials at Ryan Mickler, both Twitter and Instagram.
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And if you're not connected with us on Facebook, please do so facebook.com slash group slash order
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And I may have, I may have overlooked it, but you may have said it, uh, the signup page
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for the iron council is order of man.com slash iron council.
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You may have said that I may have spaced it out for a minute.
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Got me thinking on some of those too, that maybe I don't, I don't know that we've addressed
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Um, hopefully we gave you something to consider.
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Not, not arrogant again, again, enough to say it's right, but at least something to consider
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We'll be back on Friday until then go out there, take action and let's all become a
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Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.
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You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.
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We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.