Order of Man - Dealing with Anger, Why We Get Angry, and Not Betraying Yourself ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:05.980 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.400 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong.

00:00:15.380 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.

00:00:19.600 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:24.820 Kip, what's up man? It's great to see you. We had a little technical difficulty, but we're working through it.

00:00:29.540 We got it. We got to figure it out.

00:00:31.040 We're capable. We're capable of figuring it out.

00:00:34.240 Technology is crazy. It's so amazing.

00:00:36.680 We're able to connect here about four hours north of me.

00:00:40.600 Obviously, with the podcast, I talk with people who are all over the world.

00:00:44.460 It's amazing, and it's also infuriating at the same time.

00:00:50.040 One of the funniest moments or little comedy routines or sketches that I ever heard

00:00:57.140 was from Louis C.K., did we talk about this?

00:01:01.820 Yeah, about the airplane and the Wi-Fi, right?

00:01:05.020 If you haven't watched that, I think he was on the Tonight Show or something,

00:01:09.620 and he's talking with whoever, Fallon or whoever it was, Camel, I don't remember.

00:01:12.980 He just goes off on technology and commercial flight. It's amazing. It's really, really good.

00:01:25.660 Just type in, I'd say, Louis C.K., everything's amazing, and go watch that because it's hilarious

00:01:34.000 and it's 100% accurate.

00:01:37.120 Yeah.

00:01:38.260 Yeah, it's super funny.

00:01:39.980 Super funny.

00:01:41.080 Well, and it even talks about how entitled we get with technology almost instantly, right?

00:01:46.160 Right.

00:01:46.720 I mean, here we are connecting through zeros and ones.

00:01:50.940 That's a fascinating thing to me is how can you hear me right now?

00:01:55.500 How can you understand me?

00:01:56.820 I just cannot wrap my head around that.

00:01:59.340 Or even a record player, which obviously is outdated technology, but it's like,

00:02:03.780 how does it take the little raises in a record player and translate them into noise that you can hear?

00:02:12.620 It's weird.

00:02:14.000 It's amazing.

00:02:14.840 And that's basic tech.

00:02:15.980 Yeah.

00:02:16.200 It's basic.

00:02:17.040 Basic tech.

00:02:17.700 Yeah.

00:02:17.940 Basic.

00:02:19.900 On that note, speaking of music, I'm not a big music guy, but I took my two older boys to a concert this last weekend,

00:02:27.740 tried to connect with you, but you're busy building a house.

00:02:30.900 So, you know, give me a pass on that.

00:02:33.260 But trust me, I would rather hang out.

00:02:36.100 We went and saw Granger Smith this weekend and he's been on the podcast now a couple of times.

00:02:40.980 He'd become a good friend over the past several years.

00:02:43.600 It was awesome.

00:02:44.700 And we had a great time.

00:02:45.120 Was it awesome?

00:02:45.800 Cool.

00:02:46.100 It was cool.

00:02:47.180 The concert was great.

00:02:47.940 He's an amazing performer.

00:02:50.740 He puts on a great show.

00:02:51.820 Like his ability to connect with people is, is, is incredible.

00:02:57.700 And then we were fortunate because we know him and his brother, Tyler, we were able to go see him after the show for, for a bit before he headed out.

00:03:03.400 Cause he's got his farewell tour, but man, it was, it was really cool.

00:03:06.580 It was cool to spend time with the boys and him and his brother.

00:03:08.980 And so we had a good time.

00:03:10.900 That's cool.

00:03:12.060 Super cool.

00:03:13.500 All right, man.

00:03:14.160 Should we get into it?

00:03:15.020 So we're going to field questions today from Facebook, facebook.com slash group slash order of man.

00:03:20.500 Um, yeah, we'll just jump right into it.

00:03:24.020 I'm thinking you should just post that video on your social, but probably everyone that listens to the podcast probably follows you on social media already.

00:03:31.680 Anyway, I don't know if you're not, they can, they can find it.

00:03:34.900 I haven't been really that active on social media.

00:03:37.080 Like they can find it.

00:03:39.240 You know, it's always interesting when you have people who are like, Hey, we send you a link to this thing or a link to the book.

00:03:43.800 I'm like, no, no, no.

00:03:45.880 Like if you heard me talk about a thing or you heard me talk about a book or you can go, I don't need to Google it.

00:03:54.220 You go Google it.

00:03:55.380 You find it.

00:03:56.420 I'm happy to help and provide some insight that maybe isn't readily Googleable if that's a word, but, uh, yeah, you can, you can exert yourself a little bit.

00:04:07.220 All right.

00:04:08.600 So check bomb.

00:04:10.380 How do you control anger before it becomes rage when you want to act like there's no consequences?

00:04:16.960 I don't know.

00:04:17.560 I don't know how to do that.

00:04:19.320 Next question.

00:04:21.320 So, I mean, is it just don't get angry, right?

00:04:24.000 Like, I mean, that's the, isn't that the root of the issue, right?

00:04:28.860 Is getting angry.

00:04:29.560 You can be angry, right?

00:04:30.500 No, no, you can be angry.

00:04:32.320 Why shouldn't you be angry at certain things?

00:04:34.160 You should be angry.

00:04:34.780 I mean, that is something we hear.

00:04:36.580 It's like, Oh, don't be angry.

00:04:37.380 Don't be sad.

00:04:37.880 Don't be glad.

00:04:38.340 Don't be mad.

00:04:38.760 Don't be this.

00:04:39.180 Don't be that.

00:04:39.600 Not like, I mean, there's appropriate, there's appropriate situation levels.

00:04:44.520 Yeah.

00:04:45.300 Where I think being angry is, is a justifiable emotion to be experiencing.

00:04:53.720 It's not the emotion.

00:04:54.980 It's our response to it.

00:04:56.400 That's, that's the problem.

00:04:57.740 Like, I think we, as men tend to associate the response to the emotion, to the emotion itself.

00:05:03.240 Well, you know, I hit that wall.

00:05:04.460 I punched that wall.

00:05:05.160 Cause you know, I was angry.

00:05:06.960 No, no punch that wall because you reacted to your anger.

00:05:10.880 They're different.

00:05:12.520 And I think it's really important that we understand the distinction between the way

00:05:16.140 that we feel about things and the way we respond to things.

00:05:19.280 I was talking with somebody this weekend about response and reaction. 0.80

00:05:23.760 It is, if you're reactionary towards your emotions, yeah, you're going to do dumb things. 0.74

00:05:27.860 And I've done it too.

00:05:29.260 You know, I've, I've punched walls and I've, I've lost my cool or yelled at people. 0.85

00:05:33.960 Like I've done dumb things and they are dumb things, but it's not the emotion. 0.56

00:05:39.660 It's just our response to it.

00:05:41.120 So what I would suggest, or at least what's helped me anyways, when I do have this locked

00:05:46.200 in, which is not often is just lengthen out the time a little bit, just like, you know,

00:05:55.120 when you're getting mad, right?

00:05:56.500 You know, Hey, my blood's boiling, or she said something to me that upset me, or the kids

00:06:01.940 aren't behaving the way I think they should, or they're not listening.

00:06:04.560 And you can feel your blood boiling.

00:06:08.240 I had this last night, my kids were being pretty rambunctious and rowdy and you know,

00:06:12.280 that's fine to a degree, but it was getting a little out of hand.

00:06:14.840 And so I noticed that like my blood pressure's rising, I'm getting frustrated.

00:06:20.120 And I very calmly said, listen, and I said that, I said, I'm getting very frustrated with

00:06:25.440 your behavior right now.

00:06:26.840 And so I'm not going to react to it.

00:06:29.440 I'm not going to blow up, but you need to change the behavior right now.

00:06:33.040 And so that means that you need to go in your room and chill for a little bit.

00:06:38.840 And so do I.

00:06:41.560 So you go to your room, hang out five, 10 minutes, and then we'll re-engage in this.

00:06:49.280 And he went down to his room and chilled out for five minutes and came back up and I was

00:06:53.180 fine.

00:06:53.760 He's fine.

00:06:54.820 It's not that big a deal.

00:06:55.880 They're kids.

00:06:57.360 So what I would suggest again, just to reiterate is just don't,

00:07:02.920 don't react and don't react.

00:07:05.480 Don't react to a lot of different things.

00:07:07.180 Sometimes we say, don't react to anger and frustration and these types of what we consider

00:07:11.520 negative emotions.

00:07:12.480 But also, I think we also need to be aware of positive emotions too.

00:07:16.840 Yeah.

00:07:17.020 If you're going to react to positive emotions, you can respond, but if you react to it and

00:07:21.560 you're always just so emotional, it's like wham, wham, wham, wham, up and down roller coaster.

00:07:25.520 I think we level that out a little bit by creating some margin and some space.

00:07:29.320 And that gives us some time to reflect like my kid.

00:07:31.180 I don't want to yell at my kid.

00:07:32.180 I'm frustrated with him, but I don't want to yell at him.

00:07:34.360 I don't want to undermine our trust with him.

00:07:37.140 So it's like, you go chill.

00:07:38.580 I'll go chill.

00:07:39.640 We'll come back.

00:07:40.720 We're both relaxed.

00:07:41.780 And then we can have a real discussion about what's going on.

00:07:44.620 Let me ask you this, Ryan, what do you, what do you, what just talk about getting, um, getting

00:07:53.120 to those positions or what do you do to avoid getting in particular areas where you get too

00:07:59.900 frustrated or you want to lash out from a, from an anger perspective?

00:08:04.100 I have an idea, but obviously I'm, I'm trying to get it out of you, but like, what are the,

00:08:09.860 I don't know, leading up to proactive things and advice that you would give around not getting

00:08:16.500 to it or not getting too angry or reacting out of anger.

00:08:20.300 For me, it's boundaries.

00:08:22.120 And, and I get angry when people cross my boundaries and they cross my boundaries.

00:08:27.800 When two things, people will cross your boundaries into one of two ways.

00:08:31.780 Number one, they don't know what they are.

00:08:34.180 Yeah.

00:08:35.420 Um, and then the other one is you're not good at upholding them.

00:08:40.340 So they cross them.

00:08:42.320 Yeah.

00:08:43.180 Cause people are selfish, including us.

00:08:45.100 Like we're selfish.

00:08:46.220 So again, think about that.

00:08:47.680 If you're getting angry, it's because somebody probably crossed a boundary that you either

00:08:51.840 a failed to communicate or be failed to uphold and enforce.

00:08:57.960 So for example, wishy-washy with it.

00:09:00.500 And so they constantly, yeah. 0.99

00:09:02.300 So with my, with my kid, it was my second son last night, just being a kind of a jerk 0.99

00:09:07.820 to his siblings. 0.97

00:09:09.320 And I've communicated that, but in the past I've said, Hey, don't do that.

00:09:14.040 Like, let's be cool.

00:09:14.780 You know, maybe it wasn't as strong as a boundary.

00:09:16.920 And so he crossed the boundary, he crossed the line and I have to enforce that.

00:09:22.960 It's if the expectation is clear, I haven't always been great at that.

00:09:26.660 I'm not always great at keeping that boundary in place, but yeah, I don't want to be mad

00:09:32.220 at my kids.

00:09:32.720 And so I have to establish and communicate boundaries and then enforce them.

00:09:37.160 If I have a deadline with somebody that I'm working with and they fail to meet that deadline,

00:09:43.180 that's going to be upsetting to me.

00:09:45.180 I'm going to get angry.

00:09:46.500 I'm going to get upset about that.

00:09:47.820 So I have to communicate the boundary, which is the deadline.

00:09:50.900 And if they miss the deadline, then this is something a lot of guys struggle with, myself

00:09:54.800 included.

00:09:55.580 You actually have to tell them you cannot sweep it under the rug because then you're just

00:09:59.220 going to get mad.

00:09:59.700 So you have to say, Kip, we had an agreement, you know, you would have this done by June

00:10:05.260 1st.

00:10:05.720 It's June 5th.

00:10:07.520 I know things come up.

00:10:08.880 Is there some sort of circumstance I'm not aware of that you can help me understand?

00:10:14.340 And maybe we need to readjust the timeline or like, tell me what's going on.

00:10:19.340 Why are we four days late with this?

00:10:20.780 Because it's important to me that we get these things done on time.

00:10:25.520 That's the kind of conversation that men need to have more.

00:10:28.140 Well, and what's great about that, Ryan, is you're serving me because when you start

00:10:34.780 saying, hey, Kip, this was the commitment, you didn't keep the commitment, what do we

00:10:39.240 need to do?

00:10:39.960 The next time you say, hey, Kip, can we do X, Y, Z or could you do X, Y, Z?

00:10:44.840 Am I a little bit more present to that commitment?

00:10:50.020 Am I a little bit more careful going, well, you know, I don't want to over promise because

00:10:55.880 I know Ryan's going to hold me to it.

00:10:58.140 And so now I start communicating my commitments more realistically when you're being held accountable

00:11:05.280 to them in the workplace.

00:11:06.840 If we constantly just never do the follow-up portion, then when you go, oh, Kip, can I

00:11:12.800 get this?

00:11:13.140 Oh, yeah, sure, man.

00:11:13.780 I'll get that to you tomorrow.

00:11:14.520 We just promise willy-nilly all over the place when we're not held accountable, right, to

00:11:20.120 the commitments that we're being making.

00:11:21.660 So you're actually helping me too is ultimately what I'm trying to illustrate.

00:11:26.100 Right.

00:11:26.440 It serves people.

00:11:27.060 So one thing that I had, and I'm assuming this is the case because I've heard you say

00:11:32.160 this as well, but for me, whenever I'm like highly agitated, like I'm upset, I'm lashing

00:11:39.060 out or whatever, it's because I'm taking on too much.

00:11:44.020 Do you get what I'm saying?

00:11:45.160 Like I'm carrying work home.

00:11:46.980 I'm not fully present.

00:11:48.380 I'm doing this.

00:11:49.220 I'm doing that.

00:11:50.040 And I'm not, and I'm not creating enough margin.

00:11:53.780 Like you, you use that term a lot, have enough margin.

00:11:56.980 And it's usually a result of not having that margin in my life that, that causes me to get

00:12:01.460 really frustrated easily and triggered.

00:12:05.280 Isn't that a manifestation of lack of boundaries though?

00:12:08.900 Yeah.

00:12:09.480 Yeah.

00:12:09.760 Or even boundaries of work.

00:12:13.140 That's what I'm saying.

00:12:14.180 My, like me, what's what I'm saying?

00:12:15.460 Your own personal boundaries.

00:12:16.900 Yeah.

00:12:17.120 Because people will come to you at the office and they're like, Hey, will you do this? 0.91

00:12:20.380 And you're like, shit, you know, I got all this stuff I need to do. 0.56

00:12:22.900 And I can't really do that today, but I want to be helpful. 0.99

00:12:24.500 So yeah, yeah, I'll do it.

00:12:26.020 Yeah.

00:12:26.400 You just, you just, you just tore down the boundaries yourself on that one.

00:12:31.540 And it's hard because look, everybody listening to this podcast, we want to be helpful.

00:12:37.260 Of course we do.

00:12:38.620 You wouldn't listen to a podcast about being, being a better man.

00:12:42.320 If you didn't want to be more helpful, if you didn't want to serve others, if you didn't

00:12:46.680 want to lead in different capacities.

00:12:48.200 And so we equate our ability to lead with our capacity to take on responsibility and

00:12:55.360 it's good, but taken to the extreme, you just can't, you just can't do it all.

00:13:00.940 And, and I've noticed that over the past year, I've, I really burned out for a while.

00:13:05.160 And not only did I burn out, I crashed and burned.

00:13:08.180 Like I didn't just fizzle out.

00:13:09.540 I crashed and now that I've taken a step back, I've realized, oh, you know what?

00:13:14.860 You were doing too much.

00:13:16.880 It's weird to say, especially with what I would say, like a self-help or self-development

00:13:21.820 podcast, you took on way too much.

00:13:24.440 You took on responsibilities that weren't yours.

00:13:26.760 You took on projects and tasks and the feelings of others that were unimportant to you or irrelevant

00:13:32.340 in your life.

00:13:34.420 And you crashed and burned.

00:13:36.960 And so now I'm trying to dust myself off and stand up.

00:13:39.840 And I feel like I am standing back up now and establishing those boundaries.

00:13:43.720 And I'm not here to save everybody.

00:13:45.240 I'm here to do my work.

00:13:46.420 I'm here to do my job.

00:13:47.320 I'm here to serve within these constraints.

00:13:50.840 And if, because I have other things that are important too, and that, that prioritization

00:13:57.260 and those boundaries have been helpful.

00:13:59.520 And you're feeling better.

00:14:00.600 Way better.

00:14:01.780 Yeah.

00:14:02.320 Way better.

00:14:02.640 I mean, you can hear it in my, in my voice.

00:14:04.380 I mean, people who listen to the podcast make comments about, oh, you know, the tone and

00:14:07.800 the, you know, the other thing that's a unintended consequence of it or benefit, I would say is just

00:14:13.620 my level of empathy for other people.

00:14:15.320 You know, sometimes I thought, well, if I don't do everything or I don't try to save

00:14:20.200 everybody that I'm not being empathetic or kind or caring, I've actually had the capacity

00:14:24.180 to serve other people greater than I've had before.

00:14:26.700 Not everybody, but a select few people that I can really pour into in a meaningful and significant

00:14:31.820 way.

00:14:33.640 Dude, we're in the same boat, man.

00:14:36.140 This is my first week, not running a practice and being the, the CPO.

00:14:43.640 So it's just one starting today.

00:14:46.440 This week, starting today.

00:14:47.600 Yeah.

00:14:47.860 Wow.

00:14:48.200 Yeah.

00:14:48.860 And it was super fun.

00:14:50.260 I looked at my calendar and I was like, I'm just going to get work done.

00:14:55.380 That's it.

00:14:56.320 Like, I don't have like this balance of like, literally like kind of two jobs.

00:15:02.200 I am, I am actually, I woke up this morning.

00:15:04.620 I was like super excited about like, oh, I'm just going to get so much stuff done today.

00:15:08.620 That's awesome.

00:15:09.280 Yeah, I'm like super excited about it.

00:15:11.800 So anyway, all right.

00:15:13.240 Gene Hanks, with all that's going on in this world today, why are people not talking about

00:15:18.700 generational riptide?

00:15:20.080 I have no idea what this is.

00:15:21.100 Hopefully you do.

00:15:22.360 It's affecting the functionality of everyday business worldwide.

00:15:25.960 There is minimal practical experience in the office.

00:15:29.000 I work construction and this sequence to build big projects has no rhythm.

00:15:34.420 That makes any sense.

00:15:36.360 The cart before the horse, what's going on?

00:15:39.980 Question mark.

00:15:41.180 I'm assuming the loss of skillset.

00:15:45.760 Are you doing some Googling generational riptide?

00:15:48.740 I am sorry.

00:15:49.200 Oh, did you finish?

00:15:49.920 Sorry.

00:15:50.380 Yeah, I was.

00:15:52.340 I thought you were still talking, but yeah, I know.

00:15:54.660 Based on what he's saying, I wonder if he's referring to what seems to be a diminishing

00:16:03.600 skill set in the workforce.

00:16:05.620 That's kind of what I gather.

00:16:06.560 Is that what you gather?

00:16:07.660 Yeah, that's what I'm gathering too.

00:16:09.860 I haven't heard that term generational riptide.

00:16:11.900 And I pulled it.

00:16:12.460 I Googled it.

00:16:13.220 I didn't really see anything that related directly to that.

00:16:16.980 So I'm not familiar with that.

00:16:17.420 This is probably because like baby boomers leaving the, because he said there's minimal

00:16:21.140 practical work experience in the offices, et cetera.

00:16:24.560 And that is an issue.

00:16:25.740 I know that's an issue.

00:16:26.940 Largest generation of mankind is all retiring. 0.99

00:16:31.140 Right.

00:16:31.740 And so there's a huge skill set and experience being lost.

00:16:36.460 But well, I think that's true.

00:16:38.280 I think that when there is scarcity, like we're talking about right now, that presents

00:16:44.700 opportunities.

00:16:46.320 When there's abundance, there's, I think there's fewer opportunities.

00:16:50.380 It's the reason why people in 2008 and some of the most challenging economic positions

00:16:56.720 that we had in the country, why there was a select few people who did actually really,

00:17:01.460 really well because they were looking for opportunities that the average person wouldn't

00:17:07.300 see.

00:17:08.280 So, you know, we can sit by and we can say, oh, you know, youth these days, kids these

00:17:12.620 days.

00:17:12.980 And I don't know if that's just something that you say as you get older, because I certainly

00:17:16.140 said that, or, or if it's accurate, it's probably both.

00:17:18.960 You know, it's, there's probably a diminishing skill set for certain things, but also, I mean,

00:17:26.340 my, my seven-year-old can navigate technology just as well as I can.

00:17:32.900 It seems like sometimes.

00:17:34.820 So are we taking that into consideration or are we stuck in our ways thinking, oh, well,

00:17:39.060 you know, he doesn't know how to, um, he doesn't know how to put a, a horseshoe on

00:17:43.600 a horse.

00:17:44.920 Okay.

00:17:45.820 Like, I'm not going to say that's outdated, but it's a little less relevant than it was

00:17:50.420 a hundred years ago.

00:17:51.960 So are, are we just saying they're not like us?

00:17:56.140 That's okay.

00:17:56.820 Like I want them to learn new skills and, and, and what can I learn from them?

00:18:00.640 How, how can I learn and grow and develop?

00:18:03.440 And then what, what's cool about this is that you might find fewer people who are qualified

00:18:08.760 to work, for example, in your current occupation, but those, those few, man, you could really

00:18:15.500 pour into.

00:18:16.080 And then you couple that with technology and younger generations ability to, to leverage

00:18:23.700 technology.

00:18:24.760 And maybe you don't need 10 people.

00:18:26.840 You only need one person to do what 10 or 15 or 20 people could do before because of AI

00:18:31.860 and computer programming and applications and this sort of thing.

00:18:36.960 So be careful.

00:18:38.820 I would say of turning into the grumpy old man who thinks that we have to do it the way

00:18:44.800 he did in world war two.

00:18:46.420 And, and I'm not, look, I'm not, I'm not knocking those guys.

00:18:50.140 Like my grandpa, uh, like men that I know that have served in those, in those wars, including

00:18:57.600 Vietnam and Korea, I'm not knocking what they did.

00:19:01.280 I'm saying times are different and we have some real opportunities to leverage, but also

00:19:05.880 you can pour into those individuals.

00:19:07.520 This is one thing I hear a lot with men who have daughters who are getting married and what

00:19:14.460 they'll say is, you know, or, or dating is, you know, he's, she's dating his kid. 1.00

00:19:19.520 He's a dumb ass and, and I don't like him. 1.00

00:19:21.820 And as he, he's not good enough for her. 1.00

00:19:24.100 I'm like, well, you know what?

00:19:25.900 You weren't number one when you were a kid dating your current wife.

00:19:29.420 I know I wasn't.

00:19:30.360 So my ex father-in-law who probably thought that a lot was actually pretty accurate. 0.99

00:19:35.760 I was kind of a dumb ass kid at that time. 1.00

00:19:38.160 Still a dumb ass, just not a kid anymore. 1.00

00:19:40.560 Yeah. 1.00

00:19:41.200 But, um, that's your future son-in-law and not son-in-law.

00:19:47.640 Let me clarify.

00:19:48.840 That's your future son.

00:19:50.900 Hear that.

00:19:52.400 That's going to be your son.

00:19:54.080 And how would you treat your son? 1.00

00:19:56.500 Cause your son's a dumb ass too. 1.00

00:19:58.260 Just like mine are. 1.00

00:20:00.920 And I don't write them off.

00:20:03.800 I, I encourage them.

00:20:05.980 I foster their growth.

00:20:07.400 I discipline them.

00:20:08.960 I correct them.

00:20:10.040 I give them opportunities because I love them.

00:20:13.400 And it's the same with an employee relationship.

00:20:15.820 Now it might not go into a personal love type situation like family, but you care about them.

00:20:22.160 You want them to win.

00:20:22.940 You want them to succeed, whether they're with you or not, by the way, like maybe they're just

00:20:26.500 with you for a year or six months or 10 years.

00:20:28.680 I don't know, but whatever that timeframe is, you know, a real opportunity to pour into

00:20:33.440 these young people.

00:20:35.020 And the more that we men listen to this podcast and part of order of man, do that the better

00:20:40.200 the world's going to be.

00:20:41.400 So I look at it more as an opportunity than a negative.

00:20:45.160 And also there's opportunities to learn for you things that you didn't even know existed.

00:20:50.760 I like it.

00:20:52.940 All right.

00:20:53.560 This is a little bit long when Carson, I'll, I'm going to beat it up a little bit and just

00:20:56.680 grab chunks here.

00:20:57.500 So don't read the whole thing, but Carson, we, when I grow as a man in part, thanks to

00:21:02.040 you, gentlemen, I feel like I'm becoming the best version of myself.

00:21:04.780 My wife seems to have paused on her self-growth.

00:21:08.000 It feels like this is creating a riff.

00:21:10.640 She had a baby earlier this year.

00:21:12.340 I don't care necessarily about the baby weight, but she has, has spite for me for losing weight 1.00

00:21:19.320 while she keeps asking to eat junk food.

00:21:21.800 Being that I work full time, basically, basically get up at five, get home.

00:21:26.940 I feel exhausted, right?

00:21:29.460 I will spend time with the kids so she can hit the gym from time to time, you know, constant

00:21:35.240 riff.

00:21:35.700 I try to help make healthy food, but she seems to still get mad at me for just losing weight. 0.98

00:21:42.740 So he's kind of on this path, losing weight, eating healthier, and she's kind of left behind

00:21:48.460 and he's feeling a little bit of this spite.

00:21:51.500 He does have some questions around, you know, parents.

00:21:54.480 They do argue about his parents quite a bit being somewhat manipulative, but ultimately

00:21:59.760 they, they have some riffs going on.

00:22:03.380 Yeah.

00:22:05.600 There might be a lot going on.

00:22:07.460 She might be dealing with postpartum.

00:22:09.080 I don't know.

00:22:09.700 I don't know if you have other kids or if she's gone through this before, what it was

00:22:12.360 like.

00:22:12.800 Does he have other kids?

00:22:13.560 Did he say?

00:22:14.380 Yes, he does have other kids.

00:22:16.220 So compare it to that.

00:22:17.340 Was this something that was pretty common?

00:22:19.160 Cause they, they just had another child.

00:22:20.720 Is that right?

00:22:21.700 Yes.

00:22:22.400 Congrats by the way.

00:22:24.080 Uh, but it sounds like maybe some postpartum might, might be taking place, but compare that

00:22:30.000 with the other kids.

00:22:30.680 I think that's a good litmus test for how she might respond when she has babies, but 0.62

00:22:34.340 that's a, that's a real thing.

00:22:35.480 You know, the hormones are all out of whack and she's feeling uncomfortable and she's probably 1.00

00:22:39.780 not real, you know, proud of her body right now because what a baby will do to a woman, 1.00

00:22:44.980 um, which is beautiful.

00:22:46.480 But, you know, I, from a woman's perspective, I imagine it's pretty hard to think, you know,

00:22:49.900 I was in this, I was in great shape and now, you know, I've put on this weight and, you

00:22:54.200 know, things change and rearrange.

00:22:56.020 There's even medical things, uh, that, that need to be, you know, repaired and taken care

00:22:59.720 of.

00:22:59.980 Like that's a hard, I mean, that's physically, that's a hard thing.

00:23:03.120 So that, that's something to be aware of.

00:23:04.780 Uh, the other thing I would say is what you're doing, is it at her expense?

00:23:08.980 And I don't think you're deliberately and purposely doing that, but you should consider

00:23:12.520 that is, is your fitness and your nutrition and your diet and all of these other things

00:23:18.280 coming at her expense, meaning you can leave, you can go, you're like, Hey, you want, I

00:23:24.560 want to go on a run this afternoon.

00:23:25.480 So when I get home, I'm going to go on a, on a hour run, wouldn't that be nice?

00:23:30.500 That's what she might be thinking.

00:23:31.820 Like, wouldn't that be nice, but here I am taking care of this baby.

00:23:36.680 I've been here all day long.

00:23:38.560 I'm, I'm tired.

00:23:40.360 I'm irritable.

00:23:41.800 This baby's sucking all the nutrients out of my body. 0.71

00:23:44.800 I'm fat.

00:23:46.100 I'm not attractive.

00:23:48.360 And now you're going to go on a run when you get home from work and I got to nurse the 1.00

00:23:52.460 baby.

00:23:52.740 I mean, guys, like, let's think about that.

00:23:55.900 If, if the roles were reversed, we'd probably feel very much the same way.

00:24:00.340 So I don't know the answer necessarily to that.

00:24:04.060 I just, I think it gives us a perspective of how to do it.

00:24:06.940 But one thing I would do is I would make sure to include her in the process rather than it

00:24:13.160 be an isolation type activity.

00:24:14.900 Like, Hey, I'm going to go run.

00:24:16.020 I'll see you in about an hour.

00:24:17.440 Maybe it isn't that maybe it's, Hey hon, uh, you know, why don't we let one of the kids

00:24:22.500 watch the baby sleeping right now?

00:24:24.660 Why don't we just let one of the kids watch, keep an eye on, on the baby and we'll put it 1.00

00:24:28.560 a monitor up or whatever, like technology, you've got technology, right?

00:24:32.380 And let's just, you and I take 20 minutes and let's go for a walk.

00:24:35.400 Like, let's talk about the day.

00:24:36.880 Let's just go for a walk.

00:24:37.880 I think she, I think any reasonable woman would actually really appreciate that.

00:24:44.420 Like she wants to get away from the baby for a minute.

00:24:46.720 She wants to spend time with you.

00:24:48.300 You're doing something together.

00:24:49.400 It's physical exercise, physical activity.

00:24:52.140 Um, I think if you included her a little bit more and you might think, well, you know,

00:24:55.740 I'm training for this marathon is right now the time to be training for a marathon.

00:25:00.020 I'm not saying don't take care of yourself.

00:25:01.800 We should, because we lead, right?

00:25:03.940 You're just thinking like empathy.

00:25:05.800 What, what can you do to include her in the process?

00:25:08.780 And then the other thing I would say, and I want to hear what you have to say on this

00:25:11.280 kit too, is don't assume, and I don't know the situation, but don't assume that just because

00:25:16.040 you're developing yourself in one route or one Avenue, that that's her path to self-development.

00:25:22.120 That's something a lot of us men do.

00:25:23.920 Like we'll buy this new book.

00:25:25.280 Like you'll buy one of my books.

00:25:26.480 You're like, and you'll love it.

00:25:28.080 Right.

00:25:28.260 And you'll read it.

00:25:28.780 You're like, oh, this is amazing.

00:25:29.500 And you highlight it all and you dog ear it all.

00:25:31.520 And you're like, hon, you got to read this book, right?

00:25:33.920 You guys have done that.

00:25:34.540 I've done that.

00:25:35.140 Like, hon, read this book.

00:25:36.240 This is an awesome book.

00:25:37.540 She doesn't want to read that book.

00:25:39.420 Okay.

00:25:39.700 She doesn't care about that. 0.97

00:25:41.220 I'm not saying she doesn't care about self-development.

00:25:43.200 I'm saying she doesn't care about the masculinity manifesto or doesn't care about the book

00:25:47.660 sovereignty.

00:25:49.060 We're like, no, read it.

00:25:50.080 If you don't, then you don't care about self-development.

00:25:52.640 There's nothing to do with it.

00:25:54.500 Her self-development journey is different than yours.

00:25:57.600 And so if she's exhibiting any sort of, again, self-development in her own way, then you

00:26:04.820 need to foster it.

00:26:06.380 We should foster it.

00:26:08.320 So if she's like, you know, man, I really want to learn how to crochet. 0.98

00:26:13.680 We got to be really careful saying, oh, that's dumb. 0.96

00:26:16.120 You should read this self-help book instead. 0.97

00:26:17.740 You need to listen to Jocko.

00:26:21.660 You know what you should do is you should go down to the local, uh, fabric store.

00:26:28.000 I don't even craft store or whatever, like what Michaels or whatever.

00:26:30.740 Right.

00:26:31.740 And you should buy a book about how to crochet.

00:26:34.880 And then you should talk to the woman there and say, Hey, like, can you point me in the 0.84

00:26:38.520 direction for like a crochet starter kit?

00:26:41.460 And you should buy that for her and you should bring it home.

00:26:45.180 You should say, Hey hon, you mentioned crochet.

00:26:46.740 Like I know you're here with the kids a lot and it's probably hard and you don't have much

00:26:50.840 to do, but you mentioned crocheting.

00:26:52.160 And I found this really cool book.

00:26:53.340 And this lady at Michael's helped me get this like starter kit. 0.89

00:26:56.460 Here you go.

00:26:57.820 Self-development doesn't look the same as us, but you know what?

00:27:00.660 That does two things.

00:27:01.480 Number one, it's going to make her better because she's not going to be so irritable because

00:27:04.820 she's doing things she's, she likes, and she's has some purpose in, in those

00:27:08.640 things outside of just raising the kids.

00:27:10.960 And then she's going to love you because she knows you care about her.

00:27:15.140 That's a win-win man.

00:27:17.200 Yeah.

00:27:18.220 You know, the only thought I had is, is just a different angle on the same thing that you

00:27:22.380 just said is like, I feel, um, when we're about something, we find fulfillment and joy.

00:27:30.600 And so ask her what she wants to be about.

00:27:35.860 You know, like what, what, what does she want to tackle?

00:27:38.640 Right, right, right now.

00:27:39.680 What's something that she's want to accomplish and scale. 0.99

00:27:41.880 So, you know what I mean?

00:27:42.320 And just have that conversation with her.

00:27:44.640 And like you said, it's probably not running.

00:27:48.020 It's probably not lifting weights.

00:27:49.320 It might be something drastically different, but you know what I mean?

00:27:52.520 You're, you're pumped up only about going to the gym because it gives you a fulfillment.

00:27:56.680 We'll help her perhaps help her and support her and her identifying what that is for herself.

00:28:02.180 Yeah.

00:28:04.140 There's something else I thought about that.

00:28:05.980 And sometimes our actions and our words are at direct odds with each other.

00:28:10.580 I've noticed this in my own life.

00:28:12.400 And what I've seen myself and other men do is let's just assume for a second that your

00:28:18.360 wife was ready to go with a physical side of things. 1.00

00:28:21.500 She's like, you know what?

00:28:22.160 I'm going to go back to the gym.

00:28:23.720 I'm going to lock in the diet.

00:28:25.100 I'm going to run three days a week.

00:28:26.760 Like I'm going to lock it in.

00:28:28.160 Let's play this out for a second.

00:28:29.980 Yeah.

00:28:30.660 Because that's what you're saying you want, right?

00:28:32.740 You're like, Hey, I just, I want her to get in shape.

00:28:34.540 I want her to be happy.

00:28:35.380 I want her to be healthy.

00:28:36.160 She's kind of falling behind a little bit where I am.

00:28:38.080 Like, I want that for her.

00:28:39.080 Right.

00:28:40.240 Let's play that out.

00:28:41.160 If she did that, would you support that?

00:28:44.220 Or would you be upset that food wasn't on the table?

00:28:47.980 Would you be upset that maybe there's a guy at the gym that, you know, she's talking too

00:28:53.380 much to?

00:28:54.420 Would you be upset that the house isn't as exactly clean as you'd like it to be?

00:28:58.980 Would you be upset about all of these other things?

00:29:01.940 Because if you're upset about those things and I'm speaking personally, then what you're

00:29:05.900 saying is I want her to be on the self-development path. 0.79

00:29:07.880 But as soon as she gets on the path, then I get butthurt because all these other things

00:29:12.360 are falling through the cracks.

00:29:14.460 So you say you want that, but if that were the case, would your behavior align with what

00:29:21.140 you say is your desire?

00:29:22.580 Something to consider.

00:29:23.160 I don't know.

00:29:23.540 Maybe it's just something to consider.

00:29:26.060 Yeah.

00:29:26.560 Yeah.

00:29:26.960 That's a really good point.

00:29:27.940 All right.

00:29:29.060 Bob Ross, does taking a family vacation-

00:29:31.780 His name is Bob Ross?

00:29:33.400 Bob Ross.

00:29:34.800 Bob.

00:29:35.500 Robert.

00:29:36.100 Come on, man.

00:29:36.780 Awesome.

00:29:38.600 Does taking a family vacation stress you out at times?

00:29:42.520 How do you fight this and enjoy the trip?

00:29:45.280 Yes.

00:29:46.160 Yes, it does.

00:29:47.360 I have about a three-day window.

00:29:49.220 I have about a three-day cap.

00:29:50.980 And after three days, it's like, all right, time to get back to work.

00:29:57.940 A lot of that stress melts away when I do the planning on the front end, though.

00:30:01.560 Like, I've got two big trips coming up this year.

00:30:04.420 Next week, actually, I'll be in Hawaii for 10 days on a hunt with my oldest son.

00:30:09.420 And then in July, I'll be hunting in Africa with my two oldest boys and will be gone for

00:30:15.460 about a week or so, a little over a week.

00:30:18.140 And I'm not going to stress at all.

00:30:20.500 I'm going to enjoy the trip because I plan ahead of time.

00:30:23.640 All my podcasting is done.

00:30:25.200 All my emails are sent out.

00:30:27.140 All the things that need to get taken care of that are typically my duties are delegated

00:30:31.240 to people who are qualified to do it because we train those people and I'm confident in

00:30:36.220 their ability to do so.

00:30:38.040 And I'm just going to be present because I can.

00:30:42.260 Part of that is going to be letting people know within our organization what they need

00:30:46.180 to know that I'm going to be gone and offline.

00:30:47.580 So don't bother me if it's a big deal, sure.

00:30:50.080 But if not, you got to have faith in you.

00:30:52.440 And that's another thing is making sure you're bringing in the right people and that you've

00:30:55.500 trained them and you believe in them.

00:30:58.300 You have to have both.

00:30:59.600 You have to believe in their performance and their ability to figure things out.

00:31:02.960 And they'll have to figure a few things out in your absence.

00:31:05.280 And then you have to train them.

00:31:06.940 You have to give them the tools and resources they need to be able to win.

00:31:09.800 Because if you don't give them that, then you don't have any right to be mad at them

00:31:12.500 when they fail.

00:31:14.020 That's your fault.

00:31:14.680 That's a failure on you.

00:31:15.520 Um, and then know how you travel to like, some people want to have everything mapped

00:31:22.780 out and other people are like, no, let's just go and figure it out along the way.

00:31:26.520 And for the planners, the spontaneity stresses them out for the spontaneous, the planning

00:31:33.540 stresses them out.

00:31:34.520 So I think it's good to understand that about yourself.

00:31:37.000 Do you want to plan?

00:31:38.480 Do you want to make sure you know exactly what you're going to be at all times?

00:31:41.420 If that's your style, then do that.

00:31:43.680 And if you want to be spontaneous, then do that.

00:31:45.400 And don't feel like you have to put yourself into this rigid box while you're on vacation.

00:31:49.520 I tend to be someone more on the planning side where I want to know what we're doing each

00:31:52.660 day and when and why and all this kind of stuff.

00:31:55.380 But the spontaneous, I mean, that's fine too for other people.

00:31:59.840 It's not great for me just because of my personality, but I know that about myself.

00:32:03.260 And so some people say, you just need to relax.

00:32:06.240 I'm like, this is, this is relaxing.

00:32:08.700 It is relaxing for me to have a plan and then just go do the plan.

00:32:12.420 That's, that is relaxing to me.

00:32:14.300 So just know yourself and know, know your people too.

00:32:17.720 Like if you're going with your family, your wife might not be like that.

00:32:20.540 And so if everything's locked in, then just it's okay.

00:32:24.160 Let her have this one.

00:32:25.400 It's fine.

00:32:26.560 Yeah.

00:32:27.800 All right.

00:32:28.300 Jose police, how do you handle people that see your success and want to take your place

00:32:33.980 in a leadership role you are in thinking that they are that thinking when they are not as

00:32:41.200 capable as you are?

00:32:42.860 This is easy.

00:32:43.320 You train them.

00:32:44.540 You're threatened.

00:32:45.820 You shouldn't be threatened.

00:32:47.200 You should train that person.

00:32:49.180 Yeah.

00:32:50.360 Like what?

00:32:51.080 I don't know why we do this.

00:32:52.240 I have no idea.

00:32:53.320 No, I do.

00:32:53.900 I know why we do it because we're threatened.

00:32:55.280 It's ego.

00:32:56.440 Yeah.

00:32:56.880 But here's, here's one of the problem, the dilemmas with not training people because you're

00:33:02.000 in a leadership position.

00:33:03.380 If you don't train your replacement, you will always be in that position.

00:33:08.900 Where you are.

00:33:09.500 Yeah.

00:33:10.620 You have to train somebody to replace you so you can move up the ladder. 0.99

00:33:16.240 Because if I'm your boss and I'm like, well, shit, Kip, like you're amazing at this. 0.99

00:33:21.020 And I don't have anybody to replace you. 0.99

00:33:22.740 Man, there's this opening over here.

00:33:24.820 You'd make 10,000 more hours.

00:33:26.820 It'd be a little bit more flexible.

00:33:28.060 You do some things you really like, but I really can't have you do that because I don't

00:33:31.240 have anybody to replace you.

00:33:33.520 You just shot yourself.

00:33:35.960 So, so how do you deal with it?

00:33:38.320 You'd be a leader.

00:33:39.460 You're a, you are a leader.

00:33:40.600 You're in the leadership position.

00:33:41.880 You see lead.

00:33:43.060 I, I'm not, I'm not, I'm a little frustrated with the question, but like, but I, but I know

00:33:48.740 like it's the ego, it's don't stop that.

00:33:52.120 If they want to be in that position, then teach them everything that you can to help

00:33:57.920 them be where you are.

00:34:00.340 There is a risk associated with that, but that risk is so small compared to the potential

00:34:07.040 reward.

00:34:07.640 And there might be isolated incidents where that actually hurts you, but over the long

00:34:13.480 haul, if you adopt this idea of, I'm going to train my replacements, I'm going to lift

00:34:19.020 people up.

00:34:19.620 I'm going to add value to their lives.

00:34:21.360 Are you kidding over the look?

00:34:23.640 There's going to be instances where people take advantage of you, throw you under the

00:34:27.320 bus.

00:34:27.780 Like there's going to be that, but over the long haul, come on.

00:34:31.860 You are going to win and you're going to help other people win and you'll be unstoppable.

00:34:37.520 So just embrace that idea.

00:34:39.500 The answer is you train that person to replace you.

00:34:43.160 And that's the black belt move because the ultimate position is what?

00:34:47.580 A leader of leaders, right?

00:34:49.660 Right.

00:34:49.880 That is the next step is your ability to develop and grow other people into solid leaders.

00:34:56.700 That's what a really good leader does.

00:34:58.980 For me, if you don't mind me suggesting, I think this has to, well, strategize like tactically,

00:35:06.960 like how do you get out of your own head to do this?

00:35:09.840 I like to think about what is the intent and the bigger objective?

00:35:17.100 And the bigger objective is what?

00:35:19.220 To, I don't know, have the Iron Council win, to the company to have better growth.

00:35:24.220 Like focus on how do you complete the mission and the objective and lose yourself in that.

00:35:34.920 And if that means you training up people, if that means you doing this, that means you

00:35:38.300 doing that, then so be it.

00:35:40.480 And what's great is, you know this, Ryan, or at least I feel like you would feel this

00:35:45.000 way as, and most leaders would is those are the people that are like the talent you never

00:35:50.940 want to lose.

00:35:52.100 Those are the people that are highly valuable when they step in and they're connected to

00:35:57.060 what we're about as an org and they're not protecting their ivory tower and, and their

00:36:02.440 intent is about them looking good.

00:36:04.480 Yeah.

00:36:04.960 And, and by the way, that stuff is so obvious.

00:36:08.120 We, we know those people, those people that are just, it's all about trying to look good.

00:36:13.400 Their intent's not pure.

00:36:15.540 Everyone's questioning.

00:36:16.620 They don't trust them because we're not sure if this is what's best for the company or is

00:36:21.020 this what's best for them?

00:36:22.640 And, and, and when people don't know what your intent is because they can't trust it because

00:36:26.700 you're making about them and not about the company, man, you're really putting yourself

00:36:31.660 in a really bad position when you do that.

00:36:33.480 I agree.

00:36:34.840 I, one of the questions along those same lines, Kip, that I, that I like to ask myself

00:36:38.880 is what would the man I want to be do in this situation or, or saying it said a different

00:36:45.360 way, what would be the man, what, what would the man that I would want to follow do in this

00:36:52.080 situation and then do that.

00:36:54.100 And there's consequences, by the way, you might lose your job.

00:36:58.320 You might lose money.

00:36:59.200 You might, there's risks.

00:37:01.560 Absolutely.

00:37:02.000 I'm not telling you there aren't risks when you say, it's still the right thing.

00:37:06.980 Yeah.

00:37:07.580 I'll get, and I'll give you a little bit of an example.

00:37:09.380 I won't get into specifics, but a lot of guys know about my, my divorce.

00:37:13.540 You know, I've been divorced for about four months, I think is what it's been now.

00:37:18.280 And, uh, I've been pretty accommodating with, with her and we've worked really well together,

00:37:24.960 but there have been moments where I'm like, well, I don't want to do that.

00:37:27.900 I'm like, I'm not, I'm not doing that, but you know what?

00:37:32.300 And I may be bragging a little bit here, but I'm trying to illustrate a point to my credit.

00:37:36.020 I have done everything I possibly can do to treat her as fairly as possible.

00:37:43.200 And if I've aired, I've aired on the side of her getting the better end of the deal.

00:37:49.380 And, and, and I'm, again, I'm not trying to brag, but in every circumstance that has been my goal.

00:37:56.240 And although there's moments where I'm like, well, you know, I get upset or whatever.

00:38:01.720 I can always look in the mirror and I can say, you know what?

00:38:05.660 You did the right thing.

00:38:07.420 And yeah, maybe it costs you a little more money, or maybe it costs you a few,

00:38:13.000 few less hours of sleep or whatever.

00:38:15.200 But I can always look in the mirror always and know that during this entire situation,

00:38:21.840 I did everything exactly.

00:38:25.780 If I was dropped into this situation again, I would do it the exact same way that I did this one.

00:38:31.800 And there is a tremendous sense of pride and satisfaction and peace, peace that comes with that.

00:38:42.000 So this is a perfect segue to this next question, because I think they're tight,

00:38:45.800 look quite related based upon what you just said.

00:38:48.980 So Robert Moore's question, what can one do to develop a stronger self-esteem and worth?

00:38:55.160 I lack both and constantly see myself as a loser.

00:38:59.640 I think it's really important.

00:39:01.060 This is something I'm learning to do.

00:39:02.900 I think it's really important that we detach outcomes from our worth.

00:39:08.100 And I wanted to find that a little bit because there's, okay, so there's two sides of this coin.

00:39:13.820 This is the way I see it.

00:39:14.820 And this has been helpful for me.

00:39:16.000 You guys can tell me if you think differently.

00:39:17.440 I would love to hear it actually.

00:39:18.520 But I think that worth and value are two different things.

00:39:25.340 So we have an amount of value that we add into our interactions and people that we know in our lives.

00:39:31.560 That's the value that we add.

00:39:32.760 It's not always measurable, but it is something that we add.

00:39:37.800 We enrich people's lives.

00:39:39.140 That's how you define value.

00:39:40.760 So it might be financial or economic value.

00:39:42.840 It might be that you provide some sort of stability to a person's life or you make them happy, right?

00:39:49.520 Like there's all different ways that we can add value to people's lives.

00:39:53.260 And then on the other side of the coin, there's worth.

00:39:55.400 And worth is unlimited and worth is typically untapped potential.

00:40:04.600 So your worth as a human being is unlimited.

00:40:10.060 You can't even define.

00:40:12.760 Like how do you define?

00:40:14.680 So one thing we did when I was in the financial planning business is we would look at people's life insurance and their needs as a family.

00:40:22.080 And we would calculate what a family would leave, for example, if the husband and father died.

00:40:28.500 And so we would look at his current earnings.

00:40:30.060 We would look at his income potential over a period of time based on how old he was.

00:40:33.460 We would look at his debt and his assets.

00:40:35.100 And we'd look at all these things.

00:40:36.880 And then we would make a calculation of, you know, here you need $5 million of insurance, for example, let's say.

00:40:42.840 But how do you calculate a dad coming home to wrestle with his kids?

00:40:46.980 How do you calculate a man?

00:40:49.360 I get a little emotional on this.

00:40:50.360 How do you calculate a man who comes home and sits down with his wife and has a conversation about her dreams and her hopes and her ambitions and her fears?

00:41:03.380 How do you calculate the thousands of hours of time that you spent throwing a baseball with your child?

00:41:15.640 You can't.

00:41:16.300 You can't.

00:41:17.360 It's not something you can put a number to.

00:41:20.560 And that's your worth.

00:41:22.120 And it's unlimited.

00:41:23.980 So you might not be adding a whole lot of value in life right now.

00:41:27.160 Like, let's be real about that.

00:41:28.580 There may be ways that you could really improve your ability to add value to people's lives.

00:41:33.360 But that's different than worth.

00:41:35.120 But your potential.

00:41:36.780 Right.

00:41:37.340 Yeah.

00:41:37.600 So when you ask the question, how do you develop, what did you say?

00:41:43.960 How do you develop?

00:41:45.080 Stronger self-esteem and worth.

00:41:47.880 Those are separate.

00:41:49.760 They're separate.

00:41:50.340 Well, yes.

00:41:51.860 But I'm saying what I was going to say is you've got to find a way to bridge the gap between your unlimited potential and worth as a human being and the value that you're providing.

00:42:03.440 The greater the disparity, the less confidence that you'll have.

00:42:08.820 We call it the integrity gap.

00:42:10.220 The smaller, the closer, or at least your movement in the right direction, the more confident and the more self-esteem that you'll have because you know you're showing up in a powerful way that's attached to your unlimited potential and worth as a human being.

00:42:26.260 Yeah.

00:42:27.540 Yeah.

00:42:28.180 I like that.

00:42:29.160 One distinction for Robert, and Ryan, you alluded to it with the integrity gap.

00:42:36.120 I just want to explain why.

00:42:38.220 Why is integrity part of this conversation really quick?

00:42:42.720 When we are out of integrity, when we choose not to act on what we know is right, it's a form of self-betrayal.

00:42:52.920 Think about what is the lack of self-esteem.

00:42:56.260 If anything other than the betrayal of oneself and the lack of alignment with oneself.

00:43:03.860 And so there is amazing power that comes in knowing that you did what you know you should have done.

00:43:12.860 And when we don't, even if they're small things, we have to excuse it.

00:43:18.060 We usually blame others because of it.

00:43:20.860 And there's an element of becoming a victim when we're out of integrity.

00:43:24.480 And I think, I don't know how else to say this, but it breaks our soul a little bit and our confidence in ourselves.

00:43:31.660 And so, Robert, look for those scenarios where you're out of integrity, where you're not doing what you should be doing.

00:43:41.020 And it's everywhere.

00:43:43.760 By the way, and I don't look at this like, oh my gosh, these guys are calling me out of integrity.

00:43:48.160 We're all out of integrity constantly.

00:43:50.640 And we might be in integrity right now and then out of integrity within the next hour.

00:43:54.660 It is something that we have to constantly work on.

00:43:57.380 But when we've mentioned this, or at least I've mentioned this in the podcast in the past, most times when I'm upset and I come home and I'm overly controlling and I'm mean and I'm rude and short with my family, it's because I'm out of integrity.

00:44:11.780 Because I didn't get the things done that I know I should have gotten done earlier in the day because I miss my workout and I'm out of integrity with myself.

00:44:22.180 And it's something that was important.

00:44:23.920 And I promised I'd do it and I didn't do it.

00:44:26.620 And then we look to control and justify our lack of behavior.

00:44:32.380 So that's just a little added context around that integrity gap.

00:44:36.780 All right, John Grove, we were just in a major car accident this past Saturday.

00:44:45.280 How do I help my wife and kids through the trauma of it all while dealing with it at the same time?

00:44:51.380 First, I'm sorry to hear that.

00:44:52.840 I hope physically anyways, everything's okay.

00:44:55.620 It sounds like mentally there's some things that need to be worked through.

00:44:59.820 You know, I think just being there and present, I think reprioritizing would be valuable right now.

00:45:05.120 If you're usually putting in, you know, 50 plus hours at work, maybe you got to scale that back for the time being.

00:45:11.660 I think a lot of the times we as men are quick to rush in and want to solve the problem, the exact problem, the acute problem.

00:45:17.560 Like, let me focus on this.

00:45:19.580 And there might be moments where you need to do that.

00:45:22.240 But I'll share it really broadly.

00:45:26.240 But one of my sons has been struggling with the transition of my divorce.

00:45:31.620 And, you know, the best thing that we do together is we play catch outside.

00:45:37.440 And we don't, I don't really talk about the exact specific scenario.

00:45:42.920 I don't ask him a whole lot about that.

00:45:44.860 I do occasionally, but I don't ask him a whole lot about that.

00:45:47.820 We just throw the baseball and we laugh and we play and we joke.

00:45:51.720 And I hope that he knows that I'm there for him, you know, and I hope that I'm creating avenues and paths for him to, well, for us to be connected.

00:46:04.640 So I think one way that you can do that is not by focusing so heavily, acutely on the exact situation, high achievers tend to do that, is to just back up and then just to be present.

00:46:19.820 And that might mean that maybe you cook wife dinner with your wife this week. 0.83

00:46:24.800 You know, you don't need to ask about everything and how she's feeling.

00:46:27.800 Like there's times where that's appropriate, but not all the time.

00:46:29.960 And you go play catch with your kids or, you know, maybe you, maybe you go to one of their dance recitals that you couldn't make before because you're working too heavily.

00:46:39.600 Like it, and it's hard because we think, oh, there's a problem.

00:46:42.660 Fix it.

00:46:43.520 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

00:46:45.440 Just back up longer term perspective, back up a little bit.

00:46:48.600 Let's look at this broadly.

00:46:49.720 Let's do everything that we need to do broadly.

00:46:51.620 And then the acute issues, I think, tend to take care of themselves.

00:46:54.600 That said, there are probably some, like you said, some trauma that needs to be dealt with and you might not be able to deal with it.

00:47:03.880 Therapy might be something that you would consider.

00:47:06.520 I won't get into that because I'm not obviously licensed to talk about that.

00:47:09.520 But yeah, I think therapy would be a great resource to look into that your children and your wife and you, by the way, can communicate some of your fears or how this may have changed you or whatever you might be experiencing.

00:47:26.100 And I would definitely look into that if I were you.

00:47:29.960 What would you, anything you would add to that?

00:47:32.300 I don't know.

00:47:32.680 I don't know, maybe in just an odd mood.

00:47:36.180 What's the trauma that would come from that?

00:47:39.200 The presence of our mortality and how fragile life really is and that someday I'm going to lose my parents and my brothers are going to die and my siblings.

00:47:52.160 Is that trauma or is that actually presence to what's really important?

00:47:59.080 You know, just, and I'm not sure if that's the case, but just be careful what we call trauma.

00:48:05.220 You know, we live in this world.

00:48:06.640 It's like, if it's uncomfortable, it's trauma.

00:48:09.720 You know, maybe, maybe we should, maybe we should be shooken up a little bit.

00:48:13.560 Maybe I should get present to that.

00:48:15.860 I could lose my kids any day.

00:48:19.220 Maybe that's what's needed actually.

00:48:21.620 And that's a good thing.

00:48:23.240 Did you and I switch, switch roles today or what?

00:48:26.540 Like switching.

00:48:27.500 Yeah, I don't know.

00:48:30.180 I mean, it's just, I don't know.

00:48:32.880 Memento Mori, like I, one of the, what is it?

00:48:35.360 Guide to the Good Life.

00:48:36.340 One of those books, they said, practice negative virtualization.

00:48:41.260 And I did that for a couple of quarters.

00:48:44.540 And in the morning I'd wake up and I would imagine that my daughters might die today.

00:48:50.960 And, you know, natural, everyone's probably listening going, oh my gosh, that's really morbid.

00:48:59.100 Do you know how I said goodbye?

00:49:01.400 Not different.

00:49:02.780 Dude, when I left that house, I was like, absolutely.

00:49:07.340 I'm not, I'm not leaving this home without them knowing that I love them.

00:49:12.400 Maybe, maybe that's what we, exactly what we should be doing.

00:49:15.060 I like it, man.

00:49:16.360 It's powerful.

00:49:18.360 What, Kenny Smith, what practical things do you start doing every day to move you closer

00:49:23.340 to the person you want to be?

00:49:26.560 Have the things you've been doing, the question is, have the things that you've been doing

00:49:32.140 changed you recently as well?

00:49:34.280 Sorry.

00:49:34.800 Yeah, exercise.

00:49:35.480 It's amazing how that being such a foundational thing for most people. 1.00

00:49:42.800 That everybody go exercise and stop eating like shit. 0.99

00:49:47.840 I'm saying that to myself. 1.00

00:49:49.680 Yeah.

00:49:50.860 Don't eat all the pizza.

00:49:53.000 Don't go to fast food at night, have meat and rice and vegetables.

00:49:59.740 It's like, oh, that's boring.

00:50:01.120 You should live.

00:50:01.740 You should know.

00:50:02.240 I want to live.

00:50:02.840 That's why I'm doing that.

00:50:05.480 Because I want to be healthy and I want to have energy and I want to be able to serve

00:50:09.720 people and I want to be in a good mood and I want to be well-rested and I want to look

00:50:14.280 good and I want to be physically fit.

00:50:16.580 And I'm not the epitome of health by any means, but I'm on that path.

00:50:21.000 And you know what?

00:50:21.800 Every single facet of my life is better.

00:50:25.160 And it's so easy.

00:50:27.960 It's so easy.

00:50:29.860 I could spend hours upon hours upon hours teaching you how to visualize and come up with

00:50:35.040 a battle plan and your objectives and how to serve other people and how to start a business.

00:50:40.080 I could spend, I could do a seminar for weeks, weeks, and it would still be hard at times

00:50:45.960 to wrap our head around.

00:50:47.200 Or I could just say, pull up a YouTube video and say, hey, give me a 20 minute workout.

00:50:51.040 And I go to the gym today and I could do 20 minutes or 30 minutes or an hour, whatever

00:50:54.120 you have.

00:50:54.860 And I could do that every single day for the next 365 days.

00:50:57.860 It's so easy or with food.

00:51:02.480 Easy.

00:51:03.440 Don't tell me it's hard.

00:51:04.640 Oh, I'm traveling.

00:51:05.460 I don't care.

00:51:06.120 McDonald's has salads.

00:51:07.340 McDonald's, the worst place you could possibly go.

00:51:09.700 You can get a salad with a chicken breast.

00:51:11.560 I'm not going to say it's high quality, but it's better than the double Mac, whatever that

00:51:15.440 you normally get.

00:51:16.220 It's so easy and it translates into every single facet of life.

00:51:22.420 Every, it permeates all of it.

00:51:24.900 It's not possible for you to get your fitness dialed in and then to be a worse husband than

00:51:30.540 you were before.

00:51:32.360 It's not.

00:51:33.660 Yeah.

00:51:34.460 It's not possible for you to go train this morning and be less productive at work than

00:51:40.240 you were yesterday when you slept through your alarm.

00:51:42.860 Because you trained.

00:51:44.100 Yeah.

00:51:44.280 It's true.

00:51:47.100 So I've been, I've been doing this a lot more.

00:51:49.740 I'm down like over the past, I would say six to eight months down 25 pounds, 25, 30 pounds,

00:51:58.720 somewhere in there.

00:51:59.640 Obviously I haven't, you know, no drinking for the past nine or 10 months.

00:52:04.840 My clarity, my focus, even just walking in the mirror, I'm like, yeah, I look good.

00:52:09.200 Like I, you know, I look nice.

00:52:11.160 Like I feel good about myself physically and that translates into relationships, conversations,

00:52:16.140 energy with work, focus, drive, determination, all of it.

00:52:20.860 Doing hard things, building confidence.

00:52:23.340 Yeah.

00:52:24.220 Integrity gap.

00:52:24.900 Like you were talking about earlier.

00:52:25.940 Cause I wake up and I'm like, I don't want to go to the gym today, but I go to the gym.

00:52:28.800 I didn't want to wake up and this morning at six and wake my son up and go to the gym.

00:52:34.020 You know what?

00:52:35.180 I'm glad I did.

00:52:36.600 I'm really glad I did.

00:52:37.860 And today will be better because I did that.

00:52:39.880 Yeah.

00:52:41.760 Jay Lutzky.

00:52:42.720 How do you deal with all the negative people who will constantly tell you why you can't

00:52:48.240 do something you need to do?

00:52:50.360 Why do you have to deal with them?

00:52:52.200 Yeah.

00:52:53.180 I mean, you might be around them.

00:52:53.900 Do you have people in your life like this at all?

00:52:56.400 I don't.

00:52:56.780 When we get these questions, I'm like, man, that's a crappy people to be hanging out with. 0.55

00:53:02.040 It is.

00:53:02.760 I don't, I have, there's people online, I would say who are like that, but I don't know

00:53:06.180 them.

00:53:06.320 Yeah.

00:53:06.640 But you don't know them.

00:53:07.640 Yeah.

00:53:08.300 I don't have people like that in my life.

00:53:09.840 Um, I'm trying to be aware of a circumstance, you know, maybe it's a sibling or a parent.

00:53:15.640 Like there's plenty of people that have issues with parents or siblings or friends or, you

00:53:21.220 know, and so I, I don't want to discount it and say that doesn't exist.

00:53:24.460 It's just, it's not the reality for me.

00:53:26.920 But again, I think this goes back to your boundaries of, Hey, like I'm not going to deal with those

00:53:31.480 people.

00:53:32.280 And it's interesting.

00:53:33.680 There's a lot of loyalty that people have to family.

00:53:36.580 It's just misplaced.

00:53:37.940 Why?

00:53:38.300 Why should, why should you be loyal?

00:53:41.000 Be loyal to what?

00:53:42.060 Be loyal to them abusing you, to them diminishing you.

00:53:45.320 Berating you.

00:53:46.040 Yeah.

00:53:46.360 Yeah.

00:53:46.520 Like you should be loyal.

00:53:47.640 You're telling me you should be loyal because that's your, that's your blood.

00:53:50.920 I don't, I don't, I've never bought into that at all.

00:53:54.920 Yeah.

00:53:55.500 Um, so what I would say is you replace those individuals with positive individuals who encourage

00:54:02.180 you and edify you and uplift you.

00:54:04.320 Um, you, you start to work your own integrity gap so that the voice of others becomes less

00:54:10.260 relevant and prevalent in your life. 1.00

00:54:12.360 Because when somebody says, Ryan, you're a piece of shit, I know that's not true. 1.00

00:54:17.620 I absolutely know that's because you know what? 1.00

00:54:20.280 I woke up this morning when my alarm went off and I went to the gym and I didn't act 0.99

00:54:24.880 like a piece of shit today. 0.99

00:54:26.020 I know I'm not. 1.00

00:54:26.820 And there's people that I'll, I'll meet and interact with today and I'm going to treat

00:54:31.100 them right.

00:54:31.700 And I'm going to add value to their lives and I'm going to have enjoyable conversations

00:54:35.680 and I'm going to get my work done and I'm going to try to serve others. 0.70

00:54:39.880 So yeah, your, your assessment of my performance is very ignorant because I know better. 0.86

00:54:48.300 Yeah.

00:54:50.020 So it's amazing what's possible when we're, yeah, when we're on our path and what kind

00:54:56.040 of confidence we get.

00:54:57.460 Right.

00:54:58.500 Yeah.

00:54:59.380 And it's interesting because people will call it arrogant.

00:55:02.620 You know, they'll say, oh, Ryan, you're being arrogant or not being arrogant.

00:55:07.080 I'm, I'm being accurate.

00:55:10.240 Arrogance is inflated.

00:55:12.080 It's, it's an unrealistic or unreasonable evaluation of how good you are.

00:55:17.820 I'm not doing that.

00:55:18.620 I'm just being accurate. 0.99

00:55:20.080 I'm not a piece of shit. 0.99

00:55:21.660 I'm a hard worker. 0.99

00:55:23.420 I, I stick to my commitments.

00:55:25.960 I care about other people.

00:55:28.140 My priorities are my priorities and I treat them, whether it's work or people as my priorities.

00:55:33.620 And that's just an accurate reflection of my current life.

00:55:37.880 I am not so arrogant to say that that would be arrogant to say I've always been like that

00:55:42.080 because that's not true, but that's what it is right now today.

00:55:45.700 And so that's who I am today.

00:55:48.440 Yeah.

00:55:48.940 Say whatever you want.

00:55:49.880 And it's just, it's not true.

00:55:52.060 It's powerful, man.

00:55:54.420 All right.

00:55:55.260 Shall we wrap it up or do you want one more question?

00:55:57.300 Yeah.

00:55:57.920 If we have a quick one, we can take one more and then we can call it a, call it a day.

00:56:01.460 Okay.

00:56:01.880 Brian Engelman, what did you learn from a recent failure?

00:56:06.460 Well, I mean, the biggest failure, you know, is the divorce, right?

00:56:09.500 I've been pretty open about that.

00:56:11.840 I've learned a lot of things.

00:56:13.220 Humility is one.

00:56:15.340 I've also learned that I have, that I, that I load my, my plate too heavy at times,

00:56:21.620 which is why I talked a lot about boundaries earlier in this conversation today.

00:56:24.620 And then I learned that when I do that, I become impatient with the people who are closest

00:56:29.340 to me that I care about the most.

00:56:30.800 Uh, or the highest priority people get, get bulldozed for, yeah.

00:56:38.100 Yeah.

00:56:39.460 So, um, yeah, I also learned that I am not a very empathetic person and I've tried to be

00:56:47.940 better at that.

00:56:48.600 Like just trying to realize what other people are going through, what they're experiencing,

00:56:53.600 um, or, or not even not rushing to that.

00:56:59.820 People like might be out to get you or, or, you know, people aren't good, like those kinds

00:57:04.940 of things.

00:57:06.100 I don't know.

00:57:06.740 I'm kind of thinking as I talk here, but yeah, I, I, I'm trying to be more empathetic and just

00:57:12.240 more aware of what other people might be experiencing and not rushing so quickly to harsh judgment.

00:57:19.520 Yeah.

00:57:19.940 And just be a little bit more kind and softer approach to that.

00:57:24.080 I would say.

00:57:25.920 I like it.

00:57:27.340 Okay.

00:57:27.800 How about you?

00:57:28.380 Anything that you can think of right offhand?

00:57:30.700 Man, it's a bad that I can't, I mean, I should probably be thinking of.

00:57:34.980 There's just too many.

00:57:35.600 So many that it's hard to come up with one.

00:57:39.700 That's how it is for me.

00:57:41.360 Yeah.

00:57:41.900 I mean, maybe, maybe it's, maybe it's not as tied to like a recent failure,

00:57:48.240 but it's like a lead, a recent learning.

00:57:51.220 I, um, I've been doing a lot of driving out to the other house.

00:57:56.700 And, um, and my son, Ian is, is with me on most of those drives.

00:58:01.040 In fact, man, he's been a complete stud.

00:58:03.060 And 21, there's no reason he doesn't have to help me almost every single weekend.

00:58:08.940 He's out there working with me on the house.

00:58:11.480 And, um, he said something on the way home the other day that I was just like, it was awesome.

00:58:17.040 Um, and he says, first off, he's just engulfed himself in stoicism.

00:58:22.160 Like he really loves Marcus Aurelius and the guy, the good life.

00:58:25.900 And he's just, it's connecting for him.

00:58:29.260 And he says, you know what, dad, it's interesting.

00:58:32.600 It's while reading this last book, it's really dawn on me.

00:58:36.180 How much Christ is such an amazing stoic.

00:58:42.360 And this is, this is kind of one of my kids.

00:58:45.000 If I, if I put him in a, in a box of like anti-Christian religion, like he was very against

00:58:51.980 going to church or whatever.

00:58:53.680 And then he's gotten his own side angle view of Christianity on his terms.

00:58:59.820 What makes sense to him.

00:59:02.780 And, and it just reiterated the lesson that I have to be okay with people

00:59:09.520 experiencing life on their own path, whatever that path is.

00:59:16.160 And we can support them or whatever, but I need to let go of the expectation that it needs

00:59:20.160 to look the way that I want it to look and, and that they're capable, they're powerful and

00:59:26.400 fully capable of figuring it out and their path is what makes sense for them to, to grow.

00:59:33.060 And I, and I can't dictate and control that.

00:59:35.500 And, and I saw the fruits of that failure, I guess, let me say it that way.

00:59:39.820 I saw the fruits of that failure, um, in my son over the weekend.

00:59:43.440 It was, it was actually really cool.

00:59:45.200 I liked it.

00:59:46.460 That's cool that you guys get time like that, that you can spend time like that.

00:59:49.720 Like we're so busy and inundated with everything else that we very rarely take the time.

00:59:54.400 And that's why I'm really excited for these hunts because it's not work.

00:59:57.800 It's not business.

00:59:58.440 It's not everything else going on.

01:00:00.240 I've done all the planning, so it's all taken care of.

01:00:02.000 And so I can be fully present with my kids and conversations.

01:00:05.840 And I don't even have, I'm not going with prescriptive conversations.

01:00:09.100 I want to, I just really want to be present.

01:00:10.720 And it sounds like that's what's going on with you and your boy.

01:00:12.920 That's cool.

01:00:13.740 Yeah.

01:00:14.540 Yeah, totally.

01:00:15.960 All right, man.

01:00:16.720 We have a big call out for you gentlemen today.

01:00:20.440 Um, the iron council membership opens up in 10 days.

01:00:24.940 So on the 15th, or I shouldn't say exactly 10 days, but the 15th of June membership into

01:00:31.160 the iron council will open up roughly for about the remainder of the month of June until July

01:00:36.960 1st.

01:00:37.620 And then we'll start our next cohort.

01:00:39.720 So if you're interested, this is your window of opportunity to sign up.

01:00:44.220 And then that opportunity is going to be closed to be frank until next quarter.

01:00:47.560 So to learn more, go to order of man.com slash iron council to join us, Mr. Mickler, you can

01:00:54.520 follow him on the socials at Ryan Mickler, both Twitter and Instagram.

01:00:59.080 And if you're not connected with us on Facebook, please do so facebook.com slash group slash order

01:01:04.680 of man.

01:01:05.100 And I may have, I may have overlooked it, but you may have said it, uh, the signup page

01:01:10.320 for the iron council is order of man.com slash iron council.

01:01:13.440 You may have said that I may have spaced it out for a minute.

01:01:15.560 Or I may have said it wrong.

01:01:16.900 So let's just make sure we're solid.

01:01:19.100 It's probably what it is.

01:01:20.140 I don't know.

01:01:22.060 All right, guys.

01:01:22.960 We'll appreciate great questions today.

01:01:24.320 Really thoughtful questions.

01:01:25.340 Got me thinking on some of those too, that maybe I don't, I don't know that we've addressed

01:01:28.480 some of those questions before.

01:01:29.520 So I always appreciate the uniqueness of that.

01:01:31.460 Um, hopefully we gave you something to consider.

01:01:33.300 Not, not arrogant again, again, enough to say it's right, but at least something to consider

01:01:37.180 and chew on a little bit.

01:01:38.580 So figure it out for ourselves.

01:01:40.240 Yeah, that's right.

01:01:41.320 All right, guys.

01:01:41.860 Cool.

01:01:42.220 We'll be back on Friday until then go out there, take action and let's all become a

01:01:45.600 man.

01:01:45.920 We are meant to be.

01:01:47.260 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:01:49.860 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:01:53.640 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - June 07, 2023

Dealing with Anger, Why We Get Angry, and Not Betraying Yourself ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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