Dealing With Toxic In-laws, Avoiding Burnout Fatigue, and Staying Together for the Kids ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 6 minutes
Words per Minute
199.77602
Summary
On this episode of the podcast, the brother and sister duo of the sit down with a good friend of theirs, Kip, to talk about life, family, and a little bit of everything in between.
Transcript
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You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.
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When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.
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You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong.
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This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.
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At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
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Kip, what's up, man? So great to see you from France.
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We're going on like a week and a half. I'm like,
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I'm kind of... Maybe I'm ready to get home to my yard that's going to be destroyed and green,
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like brown, and I don't know. Who knows what's happening.
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Bro, just be present. All right? Just be present with your wife and your kids.
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Like, stop thinking about... No, I'd be the same way.
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Somebody asked me the other day about vacations.
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I'm like, yeah, for about three and a half days.
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And then once I hit three and a half days, I'm like, tap. I tap. I'm out.
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I got to get back. I got work. I got things. I got a garden. I got this. I got that. Like,
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Yeah. Although I know that's not necessarily true because when Mr. Mickler goes over to Hawaii,
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all of a sudden he's like, well, you know what? Maybe I'll... I can throw in two weeks.
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All right. But that's different. Okay. So let's get the nomenclature right here. Let's get the
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verbiage right. We were talking about vacations. I didn't say anything about hunting because hunting
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is different. That's a different category. All right? So let's be very clear on that because
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look, but honestly, what's the difference between vacationing and hunting?
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Well, hunting, you're still being productive. You're still doing something difficult. You're,
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yeah, exactly. So that's a different category. All right. So I'll take as long as I need to go
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hunt for sure. I love it. Hey, what happened to the eye, man? You get popped in the, uh,
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get popped in the eye there. A little bloodshot.
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Yeah. Yeah. I got like, I don't know. Can you see it? You probably see it if I turn that way.
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Yeah. That's pretty good. Um, I'd like to say I had a good story. That's a decent story. I mean,
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it's not whatever. I was playing at the pool and me and Otto were wrestling and I took a straight
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elbow to the eye and you know, this is the result. So we were laughing and having a good time. I didn't
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even know what happened, but my oldest son was like, what happened to your eye? I'm like, I don't know
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what happened to it. What do you tell me? You're looking at it. And he's like, it's like you broke
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a blood vessel. I'm like, okay. So I came back and I'm like, Oh, it looks pretty rad. Uh, but yeah,
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me and me and my youngest were, were wrestling in the pool the other day and he elbowed me and I was
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proud. And this is the result. Yeah. I love it. And you got some new digs or upgrades, upgrades to the
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digs in the, in the house. Yeah. Yeah. So same place. A lot of, a lot of people might ask like in my
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different, different studio or whatever. No, this is the same place. I just put up the wall here.
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Uh, and I actually, I'm glad you brought that up because there's an important lesson here.
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A lot of guys, especially when it comes to the podcast, we'll ask, maybe they won't ask,
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but what their concern is, is that everything isn't perfect set up exactly the way that you want it.
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Yeah. And what I would say, not just with podcasting, but with life in general is just launch. You just
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launch and then you figure it out along the way and you upgrade. So yeah, just put the wall up.
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You can see there's a little gap right there. A little white. I see. I want to have pointed
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that out. I think I, you can't even tell. I can see it. Okay. And that's going to bother
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the hell out of me right there. So there's a little white gap. So I'm actually, I'm actually
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going to tear this whole thing down. You have to paint behind it first and then put that wood.
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I don't know if I'm going to paint necessarily, or just put some sort of a little backdrop. So
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it's black or, or Brown or something, something. So you can't see that. Um, cause it's important.
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The little details are important, but the reason I wanted to share this is because guys,
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you can build the plane as you go, right. As, as the saying goes, and you should do that.
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I mean, we hear from a lot of guys who are like, yeah, you know, I'd like to go to the
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gym, but I'm not in shape. Come on, man. Like that's the point. That's why you're going to
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the gym to get in shape. So yeah, you're 50, 60, 70 pounds overweight. I'm not going to say
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it's okay. It's not okay, but it is what it is. So let's start working towards it,
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you know, or in the relationship. Um, and, and they're worried about what's, what's going
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on in their relationship. It's like, just start, just do something a little bit differently,
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knowing that you can evolve and grow and build. So the studio, the podcast studio backdrop is going
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to improve. Uh, I just bought a brand new camera. Cause I want to increase the quality of,
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of what we're doing here. Um, I, I bought this little like screen. So you can see if I'm looking
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at you right now, Kip, I'm actually, my eyes aren't on the camera. So if I look at the camera,
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which you guys can see right now, I'm not actually looking at you. So I just bought this screen up
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there. Yeah. Yeah. Where I can look at you, but it's also the camera. Like there's little things
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that I can improve the quality and what we're doing. And I will over time, but I'm never going to let
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that little stuff of it not being perfect. Keep me from launching. And that's what so many guys have
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an issue with is their inability to launch because they think it just has to be perfect
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right out of the gate. And look, I've shown people my podcast. Like if you guys saw my podcast studio,
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you might unsubscribe my podcast studio because of the situation in my life right now
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is literally my bedroom. My bed's right there. It's not made. I've got two loads of laundry
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sitting on my bed that I got to do. I've got a bunch of, I just hung up a TV, but the cord's not,
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you know, in, I got my, my, uh, my, my gun safe over there. I've got an air gun right here. Like
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my closet's a fricking mess. Like you might unsubscribe if you saw my podcast studio, but there's a lesson
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there. And that is that we're building a multi six figure business. And not only that, but a
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movement that impacts literally hundreds, if not millions, hundreds of thousands, if not millions
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of men in a fricking bedroom. Yeah. So what excuse we have to not launch and not work and not improve
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along the way? Well, and, and I think a lot of the time too, Ryan is we end up setting ourselves up
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for our expectations to not be met anyway, right? Like whenever you have high expectations of it
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needing to be quote unquote, perfect or whatever, and it's stopping you from launch, even if you get
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those things done, the unknown will happen. Other things will occur. And your expectations are just
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going to be all over the place because, and you're going to be upset because it didn't go exactly as
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planned. And it's like, man, you know, a lot of that just sets you up for failure. Even if you get
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past the hurdle of quote unquote, setting it up all right. I'll share a personal story along those
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lines that I don't, I really don't want to share, but it's important. I share this when my ex-wife
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and I were in the midst of our discussions about separation and divorce, not even separation,
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just divorce. We were in Maine at the time. And she said, she's going to, look, people are going
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to rush to conclusions and jump to conclusions based on limited information. So you have limited
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information. I just want you to know that you've limited information about the situation. Okay. So
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you don't need to rush to conclusions about my scenario. Yeah. But let me tell you, she said,
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Hey, I'm thinking about moving out. And I said, don't move out, stay here. Cause her and I were
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planning on moving back to Utah because I think that was probably logistically good for us, but also
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really good for our children because of her family and friends and the support system for our children.
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That was really important to me. And she said, I'm thinking about moving out or I'd like you to move
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out. I'm like, well, I'm not going to move out. And I don't want you to move out. Like you have a
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beautiful home here. Let me, you, you take this bedroom. I'll go to this bedroom over here.
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So again, I don't want to have this conversation. Guys are going to rush to conclusions,
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but I moved out, out of the bedroom and I moved into a spare bedroom that we had in the house.
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And at the time I walked like the first night that I was in that room was rough,
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but I took a picture because I knew even in that moment of hardship and heartache and sorrow and
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regret that it wouldn't always be the case. Like I knew a hundred percent with a hundred percent
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certainty that in the depths of despair, which I was at the moment that it will get better.
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And I'll post this up for you guys in the next couple of weeks. But I took that picture because
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I knew there would be a before and after. And I knew that that would be the before and the after
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is what you're seeing right now. And I've got this beautiful home and we're building out the podcast
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studio and my kids and I are engaged and we're rebuilding life in a different way that I didn't
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anticipate. And I never expected, and I would never wish on anybody. But I say that because I want
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guys to know that wherever you are, it's going to change. So if you're at the bottom of the pit,
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it's going to change. It's going to get better. If you're at the peak of the mountain, it's going
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to change and it's going to get worse. And you need to be aware of that. Like you really need to be aware
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of that. I'll tell you what, before my divorce, I thought I was at the peak of the mountain. And I was,
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I was at the peak of the mountain. My marriage was good. My relationship with kids, I was hunting,
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I was making good money. I was building this business. Like everything was awesome. And then
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one day in a, in a matter of two minutes, everything was not awesome based on a conversation
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my wife and I had. But leading up to that, I remember thinking, I'm really worried that things
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are going to get bad because everything's so good right now. Everything is so good. I'm worried
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something's going to happen, but I couldn't wrap my head around what it might be. Like,
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is it going to be financial? No, it's not going to be financial. Like I'm good financially. Is
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it going to be relational? No, my wife and I are good. Like, like what could, maybe a medical thing.
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I'm like, I'm healthy. I don't, I don't know. Maybe, I guess I had no idea what it would be,
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but it hit me. And in, in a, in a matter of two minutes, my life completely changed and, and,
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you know, I've had to adapt and grow and evolve and, and, and change. And it's been really hard,
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but it's been good over the past, I would say two, three months. So anyways, a little bit of a
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ramble there, but, um, I want you to know guys, life is going to change. If you're doing really
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well, hedge against it because life's going to change. If you're, if you're at the bottom of the
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barrel, do some different things because life's going to get better if you do. Yeah. This two
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shot pass, right? Both. Oh yeah. It doesn't matter which way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like it.
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So we're going to field questions from the iron council, um, to learn more about the iron council,
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go to order of man.com slash iron council. That's our exclusive brotherhood. Enrollment is currently
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closed, uh, until next quarter, but stay contact or connected. Yep. Good. I was just going to say
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you, you can go to that link, uh, and get on the wait list, uh, or I don't like wait lists because I
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don't want you to sit around and be passive. So if you go to order of man.com slash battle ready,
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that'll actually get you started down the path. And that way we, when we open up in three or so
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months, uh, two months at this point, uh, you can, you have already got a leg up ahead of
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anybody else. And that's what I'd rather you do is like do work now so that when the iron council
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opens up, man, you're going to be light years ahead of everybody else who, who, who hasn't done that
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work. Yeah. That's good. Call out. Good call out. All right. Um, we had a couple of questions from
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last week. If it's okay, we'll, we'll grab those and then we'll jump to the additional ones that
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we got today. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Let's do it. Okay. All right. Ralph, uh, Rojas. Hi Ryan. My wife
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keeps making decisions concerning the house and my children behind my back and then tries to play it
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off. Like it's no big deal. And that I'm a jerk for bringing it up in a bad way. A bad way is
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basically me being insult, uh, insulted because she didn't talk to me first, not so much what she's
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doing, but how she's doing it. I feel that she circumvents me as head of the household and plays
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the victim. When I call her out on not being so straightforward decision making my daughter and
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her, what seems to be on the same team. Luckily my son sees through that BS and keeps things straight
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with me. Good thing. I took him to legacy. Maybe we can riff on that. If you'd like hope all as well.
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This is Raul. Did you say this is Raul? Uh, uh, Ralph. Oh, Ralph. Sorry. Yeah. Um, yeah, I wrote down
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some things as you were saying that number one perception is reality. So why does she believe
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that? Like, why does she believe what she believes about the way you're bringing it up? Like maybe you are
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being an asshole. I don't know. I actually don't know. I'm, I'm not passing judgment. I don't know,
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but I think it's worthy of consideration maybe because I know what I did and I thought like I
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was just bringing it up assertively and it was brought to my attention that I was not.
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Yeah. Well, and on that really quick, here's the reality. We're humans. So I would ask Raul
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that whether you're bringing it up softly or not, do you have a heart at war towards your wife? Yes or
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no? And the answer is yes, because you just called it this complete bullshit. You called it out. So
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she's reading the reality of the situation. Now, yes, you, you were correct about it, but your mindset
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wasn't. So it doesn't matter. She knows what your mindset is through body language and other means.
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And she knows you're pissed off about it. Yeah. My, so my good friend, Keith Yacke, he, he's,
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he's phenomenal. He's been on the podcast and he's got some, um, uh, marriage game is the name of his,
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his podcast and what he's doing, but he's got some phenomenal advice and he talks a lot about energy.
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And so the way we could do you and I, Kip could do the exact same thing. We could say this exact
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same thing. We could do the exact same thing, but our energy is what's different. So my son will say,
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I'll say to him, you know, whatever. I can't even think of an example right now,
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but I'll say something to him and he'll respond back. What do you guys say as a dad? It's not what
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you say. It's how you say it. Yeah. Watch your tone. We've all said that as fathers. It's not what
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you're saying. It's how you're saying it. It's the same thing in this situation. It's not what
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you're saying. You're not wrong. She needs to communicate with you on things that are important
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to you. That's not wrong. The way you're doing it might be, it's the energy. So Keith would say
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it's the energy behind it. What is your energy? Defensiveness, combativeness, pitting your daughter
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and her against you and your son. That's crazy versus influence, bro. That's crazy. You're,
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you're saying, look, I'm, I'm going to be straight up. Like you're saying that you're,
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you and your daughter are against you and your son. That's crazy. You don't think that's going
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to create animosity and contention and rifts in the relationship. It's not them versus you. It's us.
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What's your last name? What's her last name? We're a team, man. I like, I'm saying this from a
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perspective of things that I wish I would have done better. So I really, I want to be really clear on
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that, but you're a team. It's not us versus them. Now, should she bring these conversations up to
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you? I'm not going to get into the should, but if it's important to you, then the answer is yes.
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And so I think what's really important is the way that we're showing up outside of these
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circumstances, because that's going to garner influence and credibility with her, which will
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allow you to have these kinds of conversations. And then I would really consider how you're saying
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things and how she's responding. There's a big push in social media. A lot of these men's programs
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of if she doesn't like, or he doesn't like, or this person doesn't like the way I communicate,
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then F them and they don't understand. And I'm just being authentic. No, you're not. So many men
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are hiding behind authenticity and using it as an excuse to be an asshole. So if anybody ever comes
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to you and says, Hey, can I be frank with you? No, you can't be frank with me. Cause I know what
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you're really saying is, can I be an asshole to you? That's probably what's happening is, Hey,
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you know, I'm just being my authentic self. No, you're not. You're being a dick
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and you're shrouding it underneath the label of being authentic. Yeah.
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Right. And I don't know. I don't know if that's true or not. I really don't, but I've seen it so
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often where guys are like, Hey, I'm just being my authentic self. Hey, I'm just being true. Hey,
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I'm just being honest. If somebody comes to me and says, Hey, can I be blunt? No,
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I don't want you to be blunt with me. Cause I know you're going to be a dick to me.
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I want you to come to me with love and care and compassion and kindness and consideration. I don't
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want you to be blunt with me. I mean, you can be honest with me, but you can do that with kindness
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and compassion. It's kind of like somebody saying, Hey, I don't mean to be offensive,
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but then, you know, whatever's coming next is offensive. You don't need to be like that.
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I, this is things I, these are things I really need to focus on. So what I would say, and without
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knowing your situation is she's feeling a way about the way you're communicating and there might be a
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different way for you to communicate. I'm not saying what you, what you need is wrong.
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If you need something, then that's fine. You should communicate it.
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But if she's hearing it or feeling it in a way that doesn't jive with the way that you mean it,
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then there's a disconnect and you can change that. So you can be more influential with her.
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Yeah. And you need to level set on expectations, right? I mean, one person would say, Oh, Hey,
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she's making decisions about the house and the kids without my intervention because she's taking
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initiative. She's being default aggressive and she's helping me out because I'm busy working on what
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I'm working on. Same person goes, Oh my gosh, that's being done behind my back. It doesn't,
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doesn't include me. AKA she doesn't care. She doesn't respect me. I mean, there's a lot of story
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here. And, and, and the point is, is like, man, you got to level set on expectations. And, and I don't
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know, Ryan, if this sounds extreme, feel free to push back, but it's like, no one owes you anything.
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And the minute we approach something is like, well, me, I desert. Well, why don't you just ask
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and level set? Like, Hey, this is important to me. I want to play an active role in regards to
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the decisions around the house, not to be a dictator, not to command and control anything,
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but I want, it's important to me. And I want to say in what we're doing and I want to participate in
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what it's going on. And, and as your husband, my ask is, would you be willing to, to include me more
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often? And is there things that you want me to include you one, where you feel that I'm going
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off, off tangent without including you? Am I not giving you the information around finances to
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create stability and trust in regards to what I'm doing? Like, man, there's a really powerful
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conversation to be had around partnering together and, and level setting what is important to you
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and, and, and asking each other, right? If we approach anything, and this goes for work too,
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by the way, for, you know, those in a work environment, if we approach anything from the
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space of authority over influence, the probability is you're in the wrong because you're saying, well,
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due to my authority, I just, no, man, just influence people and, and ask, you know, you,
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you don't have to pull out the, uh, you know, the authority card to get what you want. And if you
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are, then you're, it's, it's out of command and control and it may not be ideal.
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Yeah. Yeah. Well said. I had a conversation with somebody the other day and that's all the details
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I can give you, but they had said, awesome. Just joking. They had said that they had expressed
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some viewpoints and some perception about the way that I was communicating and they were wrong
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based on my intent, but they were accurate in the way they received it. Cause I don't know how
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they receive it. And so this individual explained something to me and, and, uh, I said, that's,
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I'm sorry. That's not the way I meant it. Here's how I meant it. That's it. Problem resolved.
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I will be more conscious of the way that I communicate it so that you receive it in a,
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in a better way. And now, you know what my initial intent was. And so we're good.
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Yeah. Communication is, is so amazing. Yeah. And I would say here also pick your battles.
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Like if she's deciding what color throw pillows she wants on the couch, I don't give a shit.
00:21:02.400
Neither should you. Yeah. Now, now she's deciding if she wants to do a remodel in the kitchen,
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it's going to cost you 150 grand. That might be a decision worthy of, you know, discussing.
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Yeah. Not everything needs to be a battle and some things, you know, you might have green throw
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pillows when blue would look better, but you know what, deal with the green, just pick your battles
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and know thyself. Right. Why do I want to get involved on the throw pillows? What, what is it?
00:21:30.140
What is it that I'm, Oh, I'm seeking validation, you know? So just be mindful of where you're at.
00:21:37.360
Guys, I'll say like, I gotta say this. These podcasts are really therapeutic for me because
00:21:44.820
this is all advice I need to hear. And it's way easier for me to give you advice than it is for
00:21:50.780
me to listen to my own. So I just want to know, I want you to know, like, as I'm listening, like,
00:21:55.180
yeah, I shouldn't worry about the throw pillows actually. So.
00:21:57.560
All right. Well, I need to communicate with Asia more around finance. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Trust
00:22:04.600
me. It was in the back of my head. I was like, all right. Simon trainer, Ryan, I have recently
00:22:10.880
joined the IC to take my life to the next level. Excellent. I've been sharing my journey with my
00:22:15.900
teenage son who is 15 years old. He has inspired an inspiration to me and is definitely more focused
00:22:22.760
and disciplined than I am in many ways. Are there any resources available or is there a
00:22:27.540
teenage version of the battle planner that could, that you would recommend? It would be amazing if
00:22:32.640
you could use similar systems to reach our goals and accountable to each other.
00:22:37.580
I mean, we had, we had something and look, here's what I'm going to say actually is you don't need a
00:22:43.840
teenage version. Do your version, do the adult version. I was going to say, yeah, buying the battle
00:22:48.720
planner, right? Do it together. Sit down. Like that's awesome. By the way, 15 year olds are amazing.
00:22:54.280
And they're also assholes. I don't know if I should say that. Cause I have a 15 year old,
00:22:58.380
you might listen. No, they're awesome. He's too much of an asshole to listen. Yeah.
00:23:04.320
No, 15 year olds are awesome. I mean, look, you know, yeah, they're rebellious and they're trying
00:23:09.900
to push the bounds and they're trying to figure out their place in the world and trying to gain
00:23:13.740
some independence. And, you know, they act just like we do as fathers. And so it's hard at times,
00:23:19.140
but it's also awesome. It's natural. It's good. Uh, I don't, I don't think you need it for a 15
00:23:24.340
year old. I don't think you need to, you need a kid's version. You need to show them your battle
00:23:28.260
plan. You need to pull up the videos that we have for that. You need to show them what's going on in
00:23:31.600
the iron council and you need to buy him one and sit down with him and help him work through his
00:23:36.700
things. But he's mature enough that he can go through that and it won't be an issue. Now, what you
00:23:41.340
guys do is your objectives in each of the four quadrants. And if you don't know what we're talking
00:23:44.900
about, you can go to order a man.com slash battle ready. It's a good plug right there.
00:23:49.320
You can learn more about what we're doing, but you need to sit down with him and go through each
00:23:53.260
of the four quadrants. Yours might be a little bit more sophisticated than his, but that doesn't
00:23:58.420
mean that his are unnecessary or the planning doesn't work. It certainly does. So I don't think
00:24:03.920
you need a new system. I think you need, you have one, you know, it sit down with him every Monday
00:24:08.540
night or every Tuesday nights, like me and dad, we go through this planning stuff. I think he'd be all
00:24:13.520
about that based on what I'm hearing you say. So, and so good for you too, right? One of the best
00:24:18.840
ways to concrete in information, right? And knowledge is instructing others, right? And so
00:24:25.280
it would really help you too, to be able to down simplify it a little bit, right? For the pitching
00:24:31.860
role or make it relatable to what's important in his life. So I think it's a good call. Yeah. Love it.
00:24:38.080
All right. David Dahl, what are your takes on staying together for the kids? Is it better to
00:24:47.480
exhaust all options and try to make the relationship work in order to allow your children a single roof
00:24:52.700
over their heads? Does there come a time when you as a parent have to put happiness first in order to
00:25:01.140
be the best parent you can be for your children? Love what you guys are doing. Thank you in advance.
00:25:06.000
These are some tough questions today, by the way. I stalled at the same place you did on that
00:25:11.260
question. I saw these questions and you stalled at, is it better for happiness? No, you don't have to
00:25:15.760
be sorry. You said, is it better for happiness? I actually stalled there too, because happiness
00:25:20.700
really isn't the goal. And those are choices that we can make. What were you thinking when you heard
00:25:24.800
that or you saw that? Well, it's funny how we see this all the time, right? That's the number one
00:25:31.780
excuse or not. And I shouldn't say excuse. It's the number one, probably justified reason for divorce
00:25:38.060
without a doubt is we're unhappy. We're fighting all the time. And, and then we follow that up with,
00:25:46.580
well, what's better have an environment where they have both parents that are bickering and
00:25:51.100
fighting all the time, or to have both parents that are blissfully happy, you know, in separate
00:25:57.200
homes. And, and it's funny, it's like, oh, it's that or that, or it's like, or resolve whatever
00:26:03.660
it is, is the issue in the relationship and be happy with your current spouse. Right. Like, but we
00:26:08.760
don't talk about that. Right. It's like, well, it's, it's this or that it's, there's no other
00:26:12.360
possible solution. Yeah. I mean, so as you're saying that, what I hear is this concept of false
00:26:19.780
dichotomy, right? You're saying we could be together and we could be miserable for the kids,
00:26:24.840
or we can be separate and we can be happy and happiness is a choice. And, and marriage is,
00:26:30.880
is a struggle at times. And, you know, you have two people who grew up in different environments,
00:26:37.660
who have different beliefs, maybe different cultural upbringing, and you're trying to create
00:26:42.780
a union. And then we throw in emotions there and being irrational at times and temperamental,
00:26:50.780
like we all are. And then we expect that everything's going to go swimmingly. It just,
00:26:56.160
it just isn't good. Yeah. And, and I think we, and, and we assume that by exiting that we'll find
00:27:06.280
someone that will make that scenario different while we remain the same and it's going to be easier.
00:27:14.940
And, and I, I don't know, like I, maybe I'm more negative in this camp, but like, I don't think
00:27:20.460
that's true. I think in most cases, it's just as hard as it was before. It's a trade-off of one thing
00:27:27.540
for another thing. And, and although Asia has amazing traits that I appreciate out of her that
00:27:34.480
my ex-wife never had, she has aspects of her that are just frustrating as hell that, that my,
00:27:41.220
yeah, that my ex-wife never had, right? Like, and, and I don't think it's, I don't know. And I,
00:27:47.340
and I think it's dangerous because we, we go into this idea that it's them when most of the time it is
00:27:53.500
us. Yeah. Can you read that first part of that question? There was something, and I forgot what it
00:27:57.920
was, but there's something I wanted to hone in on. Uh, staying together for the kids. Is it better
00:28:02.460
to exhaust all options in trying to make the relationship work? Yeah. That's okay. So I want to hone in on
00:28:07.780
that. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. The answer to that is yes. A hundred percent. Yeah. Look, you committed
00:28:14.340
to this woman. Yeah. I mean, you committed, you told her like, are you a man of your word or not?
00:28:18.760
Like you committed to her. You said, I'm going to love you forever, either eternally or till death
00:28:23.740
do you part, whatever your belief might be, but you committed to this woman. And you're telling me
00:28:28.140
that you're not willing to exhaust all options. I don't think that of you by the way, but that's the
00:28:31.680
verbiage you're using. Should I exhaust all options? Absolutely. You should exhaust all options
00:28:36.440
because it's better for her. It's better for you. It's better for the kids. Now I'm not saying
00:28:42.200
that you should be miserable forever, but you should exhaust all options. You should look at
00:28:48.280
what we're doing here. That might help. You should go on a vacation together and work through that.
00:28:54.500
You should have conversations together. You should consider therapy, exhaust every single,
00:28:58.880
and I'm coming to you as a divorced, a recently divorced man, exhaust every single option.
00:29:05.820
It's better emotionally. It's better mentally. It's better physically. It's better for your
00:29:11.540
children. It's better financially. It's better for everything for you to stay together. So you owe
00:29:17.700
it to yourself, your kids and her to exhaust every single option. Now let's answer the question in the
00:29:26.660
spirit of which it's asked. If you've exhausted every option and it's not working for her or you or both of
00:29:35.320
you, I want to be careful in what I say here. I don't know. I don't know. I actually don't know.
00:29:40.200
I'm not going to say yes. I don't know. I don't know if it's better. I lean towards it's not better.
00:29:47.200
And I don't know the data. I don't know the statistics. I don't know the research.
00:29:50.000
I just anecdotally lean towards after you exhaust every option. And I throw that in there because
00:29:55.760
most of us haven't, like we really haven't. So let's not use that as an excuse, but if you have,
00:30:02.180
and that's very, that's a slim fraction of us. I think if you have, I think it's probably healthier.
00:30:09.700
I'm so hesitant to say it this way just because of my own, I think it's probably,
00:30:14.780
and what I'm dealing with my kids right now, but I do think it's probably healthier.
00:30:20.020
I don't know. I don't know, man. I'm not going to answer that question because I don't know.
00:30:24.320
I just know how hard it is for my kids right now and what they're dealing with that. It's hard for
00:30:29.800
me to say, Oh yeah, it's better if you're separate. I just don't know, man. I really don't. What do you
00:30:34.080
think? Well, and I got older boys, right? And so I used to say this all the time. It's like,
00:30:39.560
Oh, well they bounce back fine and they're all good. And I, I'm not, it's not really a joke,
00:30:44.280
but I kind of like jokingly say like, well, we'll see when they're 25 and they have commitment
00:30:48.140
issues and can't settle down with a girl. Like the repercussions, man, like they're not now. I mean,
00:30:56.720
don't get me wrong. They're now in your face. Right. But who knows, right? Like the repercussions of
00:31:03.820
the decision are, are far greater than just, you know, my kids are going to be happy. It's right.
00:31:08.660
Yeah, man, that's tough. Right. And I understand why you don't want to answer that. Like,
00:31:12.580
because we don't know. And it's almost like that plank challenge, right? Like I've been with you,
00:31:16.260
we've done so many order of man events, right? And we do this blank, maybe I shouldn't share,
00:31:21.080
but we do this blank, blank challenge. Shit. Now we're gonna have to do a different challenge
00:31:25.040
because Kip disclosed all our secrets. Yeah, there you go. So, but at one point, right? Like
00:31:29.780
eventually guys start dropping. Falling out. And then the question that you ask is what?
00:31:35.160
Could you have gone longer? And the answer to that for every single person is,
00:31:39.880
yes, I could have done more. So exhaust all options. We can always say I could have tried
00:31:47.620
harder. I could have done this better. I, I, you know, stuff. Yeah. It's I don't think I've ever
00:31:56.100
had a question on this podcast after eight years of doing this, where I said, I don't know,
00:31:59.560
but I will tell you that I can look myself in the mirror and say that I personally have exhausted
00:32:07.500
all options. Like I'm, I can sleep at night knowing that I can look myself in the mirror.
00:32:12.500
I can look myself right in the eye and say, yep, you exhausted all options. And it's not great
00:32:18.820
because the outcome is not what I wanted or expected, but at least I have that. And there's
00:32:25.640
another question in here. We should probably get to this question next. And I really, really don't
00:32:30.300
want to answer this question, but there's another question from Rick Donovan, I believe. Yeah. And
00:32:35.800
I think it ties into what we're talking about here, but I can look at myself and say that I've
00:32:39.380
exhausted all options and I can put my head on that pillow and sleep comfortably knowing at least
00:32:44.540
that. Yeah. So I would say yes, exhaust all options. And that, that, I just want to stress how
00:32:51.640
important that is. And, and that's how, that's how we deal with hardship by the way, is, is being
00:33:01.400
in integrity with how we dealt with it. And, and that's how we let go of it as well. You know,
00:33:07.880
of, of what we once had or the way we wanted it to be for me, I didn't exhaust all options
00:33:15.920
before I got divorced. I didn't because I wasn't even at the time, I wasn't even the right mindset
00:33:23.960
to even, I was a victim and, you know, like I was doing nothing wrong and she just left. Right. Like
00:33:30.340
I was oblivious, so oblivious. But to be really clear and somewhat extreme and people can, and people
00:33:39.680
have placed judgment on me for this all they want. And I actually don't care because it's what I needed
00:33:45.560
to do, but I literally dated my ex-wife for like on and off for like five years. And people would
00:33:53.040
say, Oh, kid, she's taking advantage. You dragging you through and what are you doing and blah, blah,
00:33:58.100
blah. But you know what? I wanted my family. And I, and I don't think when all is said and done,
00:34:04.380
I was like, Oh man, I took advantage of. No, I was willing to drag through in hopes that I can maybe
00:34:11.520
pull it back together last minute. Yeah. And that's what I needed to do. And eventually it
00:34:17.900
was enough. Eventually I was like, okay, I've done everything that'll work. Yeah. And then I was
00:34:24.500
able to walk away. Yeah. All right. So Rick Donovan, how did you flip the switch from, I want to get my
00:34:32.220
wife back to I'm ready to date again. I asked because failed relationships are a big reason why a lot of
00:34:38.580
guys are in the IC and some are stuck in that spot of not knowing when or how to flip that switch.
00:34:47.240
So I hesitated when I saw this question, cause I really didn't want to answer it because,
00:34:51.420
and here's why everybody's going to have an opinion about my situation. Some of it's going
00:34:56.420
to be favorable, which, which I have a lot of support guys like you and Jay and, and Chris Gatch go
00:35:02.060
and like so many guys. And then some of, some of the people listening to this podcast are tapped into
00:35:06.980
whatever we're doing in various degrees are going to have a negative perception of what's going on.
00:35:11.820
But here's the reality. You don't know my situation. You don't know. You have no idea.
00:35:16.640
You're making judgments based on faulty, inaccurate, or incomplete information, which is okay. That's
00:35:23.700
what we do. And I expect it because I'm in the public eye. So people are going to judge harshly or
00:35:27.500
with, with grace and leniency, they're going to make those decisions. And that's up to them to how
00:35:31.760
they make those decisions. But the reason I'm hesitant to, hesitant to answer this is because
00:35:36.280
I, I am, I, I am dating and I'm dating somebody in particular. And people will say, well, that's
00:35:42.720
too quick. How do you know? Do you know my situation? Do you know what's going on? Do you
00:35:48.080
know everything I've tried? Do you know the conversations my ex-wife and I have had? Do
00:35:51.060
you know the conversations my girlfriend and I have? Like, do you have any of that information? Are you,
00:35:55.260
are you privy to any of that? No, you're not. So you don't know.
00:35:58.260
So let's just be very, very careful and rushing to conclusions, not just about me. This isn't
00:36:03.940
about me. This is about all of us. Like, why are you judging a man based on information that you
00:36:08.980
have, you know, nothing about, you know, I thought about this with regards to health. You see this
00:36:13.140
guy walking to the gym, you're at the gym. You see this guy walking to the gym and maybe he's a,
00:36:18.320
maybe he's 80 pounds overweight. And what do we do? We're like, look at this guy. Oh, he's, I did it
00:36:22.800
today. The guy was using 15 pounds weights. And I was like, what the hell is that guy doing? Like 15,
00:36:28.020
come on, bro. You can do more than that. I don't know. He's doing a hundred reps of 15. Yeah,
00:36:34.780
exactly. Maybe he's doing a hundred. Maybe he just broke his arm and he's doing recovery.
00:36:39.400
I don't know, but I sure as shit judged him for it. I don't know. Why do we do that? It makes us
00:36:46.780
miserable. I know that when I don't judge as harshly, I'm happier to be around and I'm more
00:36:53.540
pleasant in my own life. Like I like myself more. Yeah. But if I walk around and say that guy's
00:36:59.760
not doing enough weight and that guy's overweight and that guy's an asshole and that guy I'm miserable
00:37:05.460
and I don't want to be like that. So what I try to do, or at least I'm learning to do is give guys
00:37:11.680
the benefit of the doubt. So this guy in the gym today, he's doing 15 pound weights. I'm like,
00:37:15.240
oh, he probably hurt himself. This is probably not true either, but I don't know. So I might as
00:37:20.300
well make up something that makes me feel better. Yeah. Or, or here's another thought. Hey, that guy's
00:37:26.380
in here getting after it. How many people are at home in their bed, you know, doing nothing right
00:37:30.840
now, but here he is, he's doing 15 pound weights. I think you could probably do more, but you know
00:37:34.560
what? He's here. He's doing his thing. That's awesome. So it's all just a perception. That's why
00:37:39.560
I'm hesitant, hesitant to answer that. But again, in the spirit of the question, I'm not going to get
00:37:44.220
into the details because I made a commitment that I would, what was my commitment? I'm trying
00:37:51.960
to think about this. You know, my commitment was that I'm not going to speak poorly of my ex-wife
00:37:58.920
and I, and I don't have anything negative to say at all, by the way, but I don't want anything to
00:38:03.440
ever be misconstrued as negative towards her. So I'm going to be a little bit discreet in the way that
00:38:07.620
I share this, but I will say this. There was a moment, one particular moment that I realized,
00:38:15.540
yep, this is over done. Yep. And there was a lot leading up to that. You know, there was a lot of
00:38:22.820
me trying and efforts and conversations and back and forth and tears between both of us. And again,
00:38:27.760
I'm not going to get into all the details, but you know, that, that, that happened over time,
00:38:31.640
but there was one moment where I was like, I got it. I understand. Yeah. And no ill will,
00:38:40.960
no animosity, no contention, but I got it. And that moment was difficult to wrestle with. It was
00:38:47.020
very, a lot of tears on my part, very hard to deal with in that moment. Um, but also pretty cathartic
00:38:53.900
for me in that I can hang up my hat on that and say, you know what, that chapter is closed. Let's
00:39:01.880
close that book, close that chapter. And it was liberating in a lot of ways. Um, and you know,
00:39:12.100
I spent time thinking about that, pondering on that, developing and building relationships with
00:39:16.700
my kids and rebuilding those. And, uh, but you know, I felt like I had a lot of love to give.
00:39:21.640
Uh, I like companionship. I, I, I appreciate women. I like what women bring to a man's life
00:39:27.660
clearly. Uh, and I felt like I had love to share and, and I was after companionship and I started
00:39:35.700
dating. Um, and I got on a couple apps for, by the way, guys, like dating, going on a first date is
00:39:43.160
easier than it's ever been. What the hell is wrong with you? If you can't get a first date,
00:39:46.520
like so many people are like, Oh, Tinder bumble. I hate these. Why, why they're amazing. You go on
00:39:54.220
these apps. And by, so the apps that I was on was, was bumble and hinge. Those were the two apps I was
00:39:59.860
on bumble and hinge. And they're awesome. You pull up this app and you get like, you know, 30 or 40,
00:40:07.660
depending on your plate, maybe more, depending on where you live, beautiful women who want to date you.
00:40:12.220
And all you have to do is be somewhat normal and not a creeper. Like if you can't get a first date,
00:40:19.520
like we need to talk about that. So did a little bit of dating and, you know, one particular woman
00:40:26.600
and I hit it off and it's been great. You know, it's like, so I just remember that pivotal moment
00:40:34.740
and my desire to have companionship and be with a woman. And, and that's it. Like, I don't know if
00:40:44.540
there's much more to it. Yeah. I think you answered the question, the switch. Right. And it just kind
00:40:50.220
of, it wasn't something you created per se, as much as just, there was kind of a, a natural, like,
00:40:57.860
yeah, this is over, you know, at a moment of letting go. It sounds. And I, and, and look,
00:41:03.540
I busted my balls. I busted my balls. You know, we've, you and I have had conversations about
00:41:09.400
everything that I try to do and change. And you guys can hear it. You can hear it. My voice
00:41:13.620
busted my balls. It just wasn't going to work. And so at some point you've got to realize,
00:41:20.420
you know what? I'm switching tactics. This isn't working. Yep. Yeah. All right. And if you need help
00:41:26.720
on the, on the dating apps, I mean, we could, maybe we could put together a course or whatever,
00:41:31.960
but I'm like, I, I'm not going to say, I was going to say something. I'm not going to say it
00:41:37.400
because it's going to come across as insensitive, but guys, like dating apps get a bad rap. I,
00:41:43.700
I actually, I went out with a few women, quite a few women, and I loved every date I went on.
00:41:49.640
Now, not every date did I hit it off with that individual, but I enjoyed going out. And I would say
00:41:55.300
that part of it was that I didn't have any expectations. Look, I don't need to get laid.
00:41:59.860
Uh, I don't need to get married. So my expectation was so low. I'm like, let's just go have a good
00:42:04.420
time. Yeah. Enjoy the moment. And if it goes somewhere from there, cool. Then we'll enjoy
00:42:09.160
that next moment. But that, that was helpful for me. And then just not being a total douchebag
00:42:14.160
and creeper was really helpful as well. Cause there's so many of so many men I've heard some
00:42:19.900
crazy, crazy stories. I'm like, this guy's an idiot, you know? So, yeah.
00:42:24.520
See, I just assumed that she used the new website, order a man.com. And, uh, she found your profile
00:42:30.880
on there. It's only your profile. There's like no one else on there.
00:42:35.320
That's order a man. That's not order of man. That's what I said.
00:42:42.920
Which by the way, we need to create a new dating site. All right, let's move on.
00:42:46.200
All right. Patrick Calhoun. My in-laws create a toxic environment. Every time we see them
00:42:52.820
to the point that my kids want to almost nothing to do with them. Everything.
00:42:57.040
I already know the answer to this question, by the way, let's see if I get it right.
00:43:00.560
Okay. Everything they do for the kids is with heavy strings attached or is present with guilt
00:43:05.780
and shame in mind as a primary motivator. It puts my wife in an awful situation as I want to address
00:43:11.000
them head on, but she does not want to, uh, and, and just gets along to, you know, so she doesn't
00:43:17.400
offend everybody. I'm, I am, or the mindset to cut them loose. How should one approach this touchy
00:43:23.500
subject? What are your thoughts? Proceed. All right. Let me give you the formula. Number one,
00:43:29.500
you're going to need to have a lot of conversations with your wife. And by the way, when I say conversations,
00:43:34.140
I'm talking about asking questions, do not talk at her. Okay. Don't tell her why this is bad. Don't
00:43:41.520
tell her why she should feel this way. Don't tell her what the things you should do. It's not what
00:43:45.500
I'm saying. I'm saying, ask her questions, hon. How do you feel about this? How does it make you
00:43:50.320
feel? Are you okay with this? Does it upset you? What boundaries would you put in place? What do you
00:43:55.060
like? What don't you like? What are the consequences? If we do X, Y, and Z, what are the consequences?
00:43:59.860
If we do A, B, and C, you need to ask her questions. This is what great leaders do.
00:44:04.700
They elicit response and engagement from the people that they want to influence and inspire.
00:44:09.500
That's your wife. You're the leader of the house. You're not the dictator of the house.
00:44:14.500
You're the leader of the home. You're the leader of the family. She has your last name. You need to
00:44:19.980
lead. And we do that by encouraging her to come out of her shell and talk about maybe things that are
00:44:25.960
uncomfortable for her to talk about because the best definition of leader I've ever heard
00:44:29.840
is taking somebody to a place that they could not have imagined going on their own. And we don't
00:44:35.160
do that by coercing, manipulating, gaslighting, strong-arming, blackmailing, manipulating, all of
00:44:42.160
those things. We do that by asking them really, really good questions because I'd be willing to bet
00:44:48.040
in light of her not wanting to rock the boat, she probably feels very similar to you. That's why you
00:44:55.200
love each other. That's why you guys have children together. That's why you guys are together is
00:44:59.940
because you're in alignment with a lot of these things, not everything, but a lot of these things.
00:45:04.200
So if you ask her and you help her come to your own, her own conclusions, you're going to have a
00:45:09.200
better time than telling her all the things that you want to do. Because here's what happens. If you
00:45:12.960
push your agenda, you're the bad guy. You're the dick that got between her and her family.
00:45:19.000
And that's your fault. You want to be that guy? You don't want to be that guy. She needs to come
00:45:26.200
to the conclusions. And you get her there by asking her really good questions and letting her go
00:45:32.440
through the process herself. That's step number one. Step number two is once we get to that place,
00:45:38.820
then we can start having some conversations with our significant other about how we address this
00:45:44.340
with your in-laws and her parents. And there's got to be some rules in place. And you might just do
00:45:51.340
this really delicately at first. Maybe it's not everything all at once in this total barrier
00:45:55.680
between all the things they need to do differently. But maybe there's one thing like candy, for example.
00:46:01.100
I don't know if this is true or not, but maybe they give your kids candy and you and your wife are
00:46:05.580
not on board with that. That's a very simple, small thing. And it could be as simple as saying,
00:46:11.160
Hey, mom, dad, look, we're trying, we've tried really hard. In fact, I would encourage her to
00:46:18.260
do this while you're there with like, you guys do it together. Not you or not just her, but you guys
00:46:22.580
do it together. Because if you put it on you again, you're going to be the dick. If you put it on her,
00:46:28.960
she's probably not going to do it. Like she's probably going to tell you she did it, but in reality,
00:46:33.800
she didn't really do it. What you guys talked to, that's probably what's going to happen.
00:46:36.840
Yeah. Or like a soft version of it. Yeah, exactly. So you guys do it together and you say,
00:46:42.940
Hey, mom and dad, like we realize you love the kids. We know that when you give them candy,
00:46:48.380
it's because you love them and you want them to love you and you want to have a good relationship,
00:46:53.600
but we're really working on our nutrition right now. And candy, especially late at night,
00:46:59.980
makes the kids go crazy. So we've implemented a rule in our house that we're not doing candy at all,
00:47:04.720
or we're not doing candy after two o'clock in the hour or whatever, you know, whatever the thing
00:47:08.480
is. And so we would really appreciate if you didn't give the kids candy, but what you can give
00:47:14.060
them is fruit or what you can give them is this, what you can, how you can show them love is through
00:47:19.420
these ways. But we ask that you don't do candy that might nip it in the bud right there. Yeah.
00:47:25.500
If it doesn't, then, Hey folks, like we told you no candy. And we were, we actually,
00:47:30.720
we were actually really serious about that. It's important to us. It may not be as important to you,
00:47:34.560
but we're their parents and it's important to us. And we love that they have a relationship with you.
00:47:38.320
And we love that we can bring them over on Friday night when we go on a date. But if you're going
00:47:42.180
to give them candy, then we're going to have to make a different choice. And we're going to have
00:47:45.740
to hire a babysitter, which we can certainly do, but we want to give them the opportunity to build
00:47:49.860
a relationship with you. So could you please stop giving them candy after two o'clock? That's really
00:47:55.420
important to us, but here's what you can do. Can you do that for us? So you continue to escalate.
00:48:01.500
If they keep doing it, then it's like, okay, Hey, we're going out on Friday night. We would
00:48:06.560
have loved to bring them, brought them to you. We can't do that anymore because you're not honoring
00:48:11.060
and respecting our wishes. We can do things as a family. We can go on vacations. We can go to the
00:48:15.720
lake together. We can have fun, but we can't bring them over unsupervised anymore because you aren't
00:48:20.660
willing to uphold our boundaries. Has that changed? If it has, please let us know. We'll bring them back
00:48:24.860
over to you. But if not, we just can't do this anymore. But Ryan, my in-laws, we're not talking
00:48:31.200
candy here. They're, they're toxic. They're horrible. They're mean, verbally abusive to my
00:48:39.060
kids. They're completely unaware. This is just a miserable, like people to be around.
00:48:45.360
Those are, that's easier. That's easier. Candy's the hard thing. Cause it's like,
00:48:51.280
it's just a piece of candy. What's the big deal? That's easier. Or excuse me, that's harder.
00:48:58.080
It's the, the, the harder things like what you're talking about that are, that are easier.
00:49:02.640
So in that case, you need to bring it to their attention. Like you owe it to them and your kids
00:49:07.500
and everybody else to bring it because they may not know. So, Hey, you know, that's the right way
00:49:11.840
to handle that period. I think as a man, for sure. Yeah. So you do step one, step two is bring it to
00:49:17.040
their attention. Hey, mom and dad, look, the kids, we brought the kids over and we've repeated
00:49:21.240
told you about the way that they, that the fun that they're having or the way that they interpret
00:49:27.580
these times. And it's not good. You know, you, you tease them, you make fun of them. You call
00:49:35.180
their names. We don't like that. And we're going to establish a boundary. And the boundary is that we
00:49:41.120
can come over and spend time with you guys together as a family, but our kids are no longer coming over
00:49:46.640
here by themselves because we're not happy and satisfied with the way it goes. Now there is a
00:49:51.500
path to recovery. The path to recovery is that we, as a family come over and we spend time together
00:49:56.160
on Saturday or Sunday and we have Sunday dinner or whatever we do. And if we can see that you're
00:50:00.780
sharing with them in a constructive, positive way, then maybe we can extend that out and leave them
00:50:05.960
here for an hour while we go grab dinner. And we'll see from there. But for now, as it stands,
00:50:12.220
the kids will not be alone with you anymore because of the way that the experience goes.
00:50:18.240
That's easy. That, well, I should say that simple emotionally. It's very difficult.
00:50:25.420
Who do you care more about your in-laws or your kids? What do you, what do you think? Would you add
00:50:30.340
anything to that? Well, the only thing I think is what you've already alluded to is there's value
00:50:37.760
in your wife coming to the conclusion on a lot of the things by you facilitating the conversation
00:50:42.500
that gets her buy-in. But also this is her difficult situation more than yours, right? This
00:50:48.940
is her mom and dad. So respect that and help her identify and align together as a couple in regards
00:50:57.220
to the best way moving forward. I just want to call out that, you know, that's a tough situation
00:51:01.800
for her possibly. Well, and because it's so difficult, it's important for her to say these
00:51:07.140
things, not you. Yep. It's her mom and dad. It's her relationship on the line with them, you know?
00:51:12.580
So you can be there with her, but she needs to be the one having these conversations.
00:51:17.860
Because again, I want to reiterate, if you do it, you're the dick.
00:51:21.200
Yep. And you're the one that drove the wedge, not her. You are. So she really, if she,
00:51:26.700
if she believes in you and she trusts you and she believes this way about a thing,
00:51:31.560
you gotta, you gotta make sure she's the one that communicates this, not you. You can be there to
00:51:35.460
support her and feel them where you need, but she's the one that needs to do it.
00:51:39.620
Yeah. So Jeremy Roach, this is really funny. He actually doesn't have a question, but it's
00:51:44.100
maybe a plug for the value of maybe journaling for some of us. He, he wrote, typed out two paragraphs
00:51:49.760
and answer my own question. I'll stand by and enjoy the podcast. Be blessed.
00:51:54.080
I mean, isn't that it, but that's awesome. Yeah. But it's kind of how it works. You know,
00:51:59.860
you start processing, you know, your thoughts and feelings and you're like, Oh wait, that's a
00:52:04.340
little bit more clear now. I got an email message on Instagram from a guy the other day. He's like,
00:52:10.520
well, what do you think I should do? Long story short, what do you think I should do? Like,
00:52:13.520
I don't know what you should do. It's your, your problem, not mine. I'm not going to,
00:52:17.500
I'm done giving people advice unless it's like a, like a broad thing. Like, like this is different,
00:52:23.520
right? Cause it's a broad thing. We're, we're answering questions, but if somebody comes to
00:52:27.720
me broad statement, yeah. Yeah. If you came to me, Kip, and you're like, what do I think?
00:52:31.580
What do you think I should do? I'd say, well, what have you tried? And you'd say X, Y, and Z.
00:52:35.280
And I'd say, well, what worked? You should do Kip. Yeah. And you'd say, well, this worked,
00:52:39.420
but this didn't. Okay. What are you going to try next? Well, I don't know. That's why I'm asking you.
00:52:42.580
I don't know what your situation. What do you think you should do? Well, I think I should try this.
00:52:46.220
Have you tried it? No. What's keeping you from trying it? I'm worried. I get that. I'd be
00:52:52.360
worried too. If I was in your shoes, what's the, what's the, you know, what's the end result,
00:52:56.960
whether it goes good or poorly, like what would happen? I'm, I'm done. I'm done answering people's
00:53:02.780
questions individually. Who wants to be acting on a decision that wasn't made by you anyway?
00:53:08.960
I just don't want to be the bad guy. I like, look, you, you're a big, you're a big boy. Like
00:53:13.180
if I, if I make the decision for you, you're going to blame it on me. If it goes wrong.
00:53:18.320
Yeah. That's what, what we just said about the marriage thing. If I make the decision for you,
00:53:23.240
you're going to blame me. If it goes South. Well, and your commitment to the decision
00:53:27.580
is compliant at best. You're not bought into that idea. You just listen to Ryan, right? Like
00:53:35.380
that's the power of us processing, thinking logically and making a decision that we're
00:53:41.840
committed to is there's power and momentum around that. The, the amount of momentum I'd put in an
00:53:48.940
advice from someone else to say, Oh, just do ABC. I'm going to be speculative still. Oh,
00:53:54.160
maybe is it still going to work? I'm not going to, I'm not full, fully bought in and committed to
00:53:58.440
that. I've just outsourced it. So then that way I have a, you know, someone to blame it on when it
00:54:03.520
doesn't work. You have a fallback. You have a fallback guy. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing
00:54:07.620
is like, if it goes wrong, you're going to blame me. If it goes well, you're going to take credit
00:54:10.400
for it. Yeah. So what's in it for me? Like really, you know, like if you're going to give
00:54:18.440
me credit, if it goes well, then maybe I can consider that, but you're not, you're going to
00:54:21.260
take credit yourself. Like, Oh, I did that. I came to a resolution. Yeah. And also if you care about
00:54:26.220
people, it's the teach a man to fish versus feed him a fish mentality. Right. So like, I'm just not
00:54:32.320
interested in giving you a fish. You get, get your own fish. I'm interested in showing you how to tie
00:54:39.340
the fly and how to cast and how to find the right places. And, but you ultimately need to do it. And
00:54:44.320
then I'm interested in teaching you how to land the fish and use the net to pick them up. Like, but you
00:54:48.340
need to do it. I'm not doing it for you. I'm done. I have my own stuff. Like I have enough of my own
00:54:53.600
stuff. Well, and to be frank, like fulfillment and growth is knowing how to fish. It's not
00:55:02.320
eating the fish. Yeah. But that's what a lot of us are after. I mean, there's so much self-help
00:55:07.940
out there that says, you know, do this, do this, do that, do this. I talked about it with our battle
00:55:12.320
planning stuff. Like one of the differences between the way that we teach planning and goal setting
00:55:17.040
is I'm never going to tell you what you should do. I don't know what your goals are. Your goals
00:55:22.760
are different than mine. They're not less relevant. They're just different. And so if I tell you,
00:55:27.580
you need to learn how to hunt, or you need to go train jujitsu, or you need to go do this,
00:55:31.760
or you need to eat these foods. I don't know. All that I want to do anymore is just give you a
00:55:37.500
track to run on a path to run on and help you identify goals and give you a path to, to streamline
00:55:42.260
the process, to achieve what you are after. Not what I'm after. Not what I tell you, you should do.
00:55:48.580
That's arrogant. And I was arrogant for a lot of years in telling you what you should do. You should
00:55:54.620
train jujitsu. You should do this. You should, I'm done. I don't know that you should do that stuff.
00:56:01.760
What do you think you should do? And how can I help? Yeah. Yeah. Matt Hatfield, last question,
00:56:08.020
if that's okay. Yeah, it works. Okay. Matt Hatfield, as you seek to improve and become
00:56:15.040
the man you were meant to be, how do you guard against burnout and fatigue? What strategies have
00:56:20.920
you found useful in keeping the fire burning long-term? And where in your experience are those
00:56:26.420
moments of burnout or fatigue likely to occur for men?
00:56:30.620
For me personally, with burnout and fatigue, it gets monotonous for me. And if things get monotonous,
00:56:35.640
even if I'm working towards a goal, I tend to burn out. So I don't burn out with pace. I don't really
00:56:42.360
burn out with tempo. I burn out with monotony. That's me personally. So I have to mix things up.
00:56:47.920
So if I'm training for a run, running every day is probably not something I'm going to do. Could I run
00:56:54.020
every couple of days? Probably. I could probably force myself to do that. But maybe it's going for
00:56:59.540
a bike ride. Maybe it's jumping on the treadmill. Maybe it's doing a HIIT workout. Maybe it's training
00:57:05.840
jujitsu. These things are all going to strengthen my cardio, which are going to help me in that run.
00:57:10.620
If I'm building a business, I may have goals and places I want to go. But if I'm doing the same thing
00:57:15.260
every single day, that monotony just gases me. And so it might be, what's a new strategy?
00:57:21.540
You know, with my financial planning practice, the reason that you're listening to this podcast
00:57:25.400
is because I got bored with financial planning. It was all the same. It was all like call,
00:57:30.420
cold calls, ask for referrals, use this script, do this thing. I was like, God, there's got to be a
00:57:35.700
better way. I'm so sick of doing the same thing over and over again. And what I would do,
00:57:40.880
what I started doing is I bought CDs at Best Buy or whatever, you know, wherever it was,
00:57:46.700
Staples, blank CDs. And I went to a place to get my picture taken. It reminded me of Napoleon Dynamite
00:57:54.560
where she goes, Kip goes in. He's like, is there some sort of vest I can wear? It was like a place
00:57:59.120
like that. And I went, I put a suit on and I went to this place. I'm like, take some professional
00:58:06.440
pictures. And I was, you know, like doing this with my, you know, hand on my chin and this kind
00:58:10.920
of stuff, you know, for the label for the label of the CD. Yeah. And I brought it and I downloaded
00:58:16.840
it off Microsoft word or whatever. And I, I printed these off and I individually stuck labels on these
00:58:22.580
CDs and the audio was a $67 Yeti microphone snowball, I think is what it was called. And, uh, um,
00:58:31.120
I recorded a 15 minute conversation. It was my, like the very first conversation I would have with
00:58:37.100
a client if they were in my office, because I was so tired of just talking with people in my office
00:58:41.800
for them to say, no, I'm like, all right, let me just start giving people a CD. And they could say
00:58:45.140
no before they even meet with me. And so I gave them the CD and they, you know, the only people who
00:58:50.740
met with me at that point where people were like, I like what this guy has to say, I'm interested.
00:58:54.220
And then I got this call from a pediatric physician in Pennsylvania. And I only remember that
00:58:58.400
because it was three P's pediatric physician, Pennsylvania. And he said, Hey, I need disability
00:59:02.660
insurance and I need X, Y, and Z. And he ran through this laundry list of things that he needed
00:59:07.160
in his disability insurance policy. Now, if you're anything like a normal human being, you know,
00:59:12.600
nothing about disability insurance, let alone all the features and benefits that you think you should
00:59:17.120
need. Yeah. I'm like, so I asked the guy, I'm like, you know, a lot about disability insurance.
00:59:23.240
Like you're either shopping around or you're an insurance agent disguised as a,
00:59:28.120
as a physician, like what's going on here. And he said, Oh no, no, no. I just listened to your
00:59:32.620
podcast. And I wrote down everything you said I needed. Like light bulb moment. Got it. Yeah.
00:59:38.500
You're like, I'm in your, I'm in your head. And I realized this is a really powerful medium,
00:59:43.120
but I would never have done that if I didn't get bored with what I was currently doing.
00:59:47.640
So here's what I would say to some, some eyes of this. You don't need to change the destination
00:59:54.540
as often as we do. You just need to change the route. So keep working towards what you're working
01:00:01.500
towards, but see if there's a different way you can do it and explore the veins and the quirks and
01:00:06.700
the oddities and the weirdness and the fringe. Explore all of those. Cause that's going to add
01:00:12.020
a different dynamic to your life, a different dimension. It's going to keep things engaged and
01:00:16.260
interesting, but you're still working towards the same objective.
01:00:19.220
Yeah. I like that. I like that. I was reading a study, geez, a couple months ago around a majority
01:00:27.220
of like employee burnout and anxiety. And in the study, it suggested that most anxiety and burnout
01:00:33.580
is a result of a lack of clarity around objectives of the work that they're doing. So I'd maybe latch
01:00:42.240
onto that too. What, you know, you're getting burned out. Okay. Well, what's the long-term plan here?
01:00:48.100
Well, what, why are you doing what you're doing? Is, is, is, is that clear? Do you have a game plan
01:00:55.080
of, of how long you're going to do whatever it is that you're doing and what you're achieving and
01:00:58.940
what the goal in, in result is, or the goal and the objective? And if you don't, then I'd suggest
01:01:03.880
you figure that out and then pivot, right? If it's out of alignment that gives us purpose,
01:01:09.280
right? It's just like holiday, right? The, the minute you book the flights, you know,
01:01:13.200
you start going on vacation then because now it's coming, you know, and, and you need to know
01:01:18.740
what's coming in regards to what you're working towards. Imagine if I told you to build a trench,
01:01:24.140
dig a trench, I said, dig a trench. I need it. I need a 300 yard trench from this point to this
01:01:29.320
point. Like, just go ahead and dig that trench. Like how quickly would you lose interest in that?
01:01:34.020
Yeah. But if I said, Hey, the reason that we're digging this trench is because there's a big water
01:01:38.360
source over here and we need to come over here because all the kids are over here. And once we
01:01:43.220
dig that trench and it's going to take us a few days, but once we dig that trench, then all the
01:01:47.220
water is going to come over here and it's going to create this amazing pool that we can play in and
01:01:51.600
we can laugh and we can enjoy, and we can do cliff jumping and we can, um, have the kids there and
01:01:56.660
they can laugh and play and enjoy it. Like, yeah, of course you're going to dig the trench and you're
01:02:01.240
going to be happier about it. You might do the first one, but you aren't going to be happy about it.
01:02:04.920
But if I told you the reason behind it, like, yeah, yeah, it would still suck. Don't get me
01:02:09.260
wrong. But every moment that it sucked, you'd be like, yeah, this sucks, but yeah, it's going to
01:02:14.400
be awesome when we get there. Totally. The perfect example of this is at the, at the lake, we get
01:02:20.780
branches and all this stuff that needs to be cleaned up all the time, right? Getting my kids to clean up
01:02:24.640
those branches and those twigs and like clean up the yard is like pulling teeth. But if I'm not having
01:02:31.180
them clean up and I look around, they're doing it already because they're trying to build a
01:02:34.780
fort. They're working just as hard for themselves, right? To build these fake walls and do this
01:02:42.940
little hut and all this stuff. And I'm like, man, why don't they work that hard when, and I'm like,
01:02:46.740
oh, because the desired outcome for them is what? The support is cool thing. They see the purpose of
01:02:52.320
it. Right. And what's mine? The lawn needs to look clean. To be an asshole. That's yours. Yeah.
01:03:00.260
Just to be a jerk. Yeah. There's one last question. You could probably answer it really
01:03:05.260
quick here. Brendan Bagden. I'm focusing on getting my emotional house in order this quarter. I just
01:03:11.640
read the power of one more, which has lit a fire underneath my ass. What other books on emotional
01:03:17.100
intelligence or your emotional house would you recommend?
01:03:20.420
Two things. As a man thinketh by James Allen and man's search for meaning by Viktor Frankl.
01:03:28.580
Yeah. Would you add anything to that? Do you have another suggestion?
01:03:31.800
I like John Gary Bishop a lot. So his book on F yourself and then the book emotional intelligence
01:03:38.740
is pretty good on emotional intelligence. Yeah. Yeah. Those are both good recommendations.
01:03:43.420
Anything on stoicism is usually pretty good. Yeah.
01:03:47.080
Look, I'll say it like this. Ryan Holliday's writing is phenomenal. I was going to say him
01:03:54.160
as a human being. I don't know him as a human being, so I'm not going to say that. But his
01:03:57.220
political views and the way that he approaches some scenarios specifically as it relates to COVID,
01:04:02.440
I vehemently disagree with. And I lost a lot of credibility and respect with the way that he
01:04:07.000
approached that. But his writing is phenomenal, especially on stoicism. So you could check out
01:04:12.160
anything by Ryan Holliday. But me personally though, I think the best book on stoicism is
01:04:18.660
meditations by Marcus Aurelius and the guide to the good life. I love guide to the good life.
01:04:24.980
I like that is such a good book. I'm not, I don't know why, but I'm not, I'm not all the way in on
01:04:29.700
meditations. I know I'm supposed to, I know everybody's like meditations. Like I'm maybe I'm
01:04:34.720
just kind of cool that it's directly from Marcus Aurelius. Yeah. I know, but maybe I'm too dense
01:04:38.340
and I'm trying to like, like decipher what he's saying. I'm maybe I'm too dumb and I'm like,
01:04:42.760
I don't get it. He's using language. I don't understand. So like, make it easier for me.
01:04:46.660
That's how I feel even about like people. Nevermind. I'm not going to say we'll stick
01:04:52.080
with meditations. I'm going to see your version of the Bible that you read. Yeah.
01:04:56.420
It's really, it's a really dumbed down version. Cause I'm like, what I getting through Isaiah is like,
01:05:04.900
You're just like, where's those Bible cartoons, those old VHS. Isn't there a video that you can
01:05:10.080
send me that has cartoons and it like illustrates the point for me. Oh, that's funny. All right,
01:05:17.940
cool. We were able to swing, swing one right there. So cool, man. Well, there's a couple of
01:05:23.320
call to actions, right? Um, those interested in the, um, iron council, obviously it's closed. You can sign
01:05:29.860
up. The main thing is stay connected with Mr. Mickler on Twitter and Instagram at Ryan Mickler,
01:05:34.840
or you can sign up for the newsletter at order of man.com slash iron council. The other key thing
01:05:39.820
though, is the battle ready. So to, um, the 30 day battle ready program, you can take some action,
01:05:46.480
be self-directed in your growth launch pad, and then join us, you know, in, in Q4. So that's
01:05:53.140
order of man.com slash battle ready. Correct. Yes, sir. Okay, cool. All right, guys. Appreciate you.
01:05:59.420
It's on the store slowly, but surely I just ordered. Okay. No, it's, it's fine. Uh, I just
01:06:05.060
ordered a bunch of new shirts. Uh, battle planners are in stock. Inserts are in stock.
01:06:10.420
Original order man shirts are in stock. Scout hats are in stock. I just have a brand new design
01:06:15.560
coming out. Um, Todd van fleet, who's our designer and fulfills a lot of this stuff. Uh, did a really
01:06:22.720
cool anchor hold fast. Like it's going to be, it's rad. And so I'm excited about that one. I should
01:06:28.520
have that in the next two weeks or so. I imagine just did an order on that. So slowly, but surely
01:06:32.960
we're, we're updating that that's at store.orderofman.com. Perfect. Excellent, sir. Thanks,
01:06:38.640
Kip. Appreciate you guys. Appreciate you. Great questions today. We've got some leftovers. We
01:06:42.400
didn't get to, we'll get to those next week, but until then go out there, take action and become a
01:06:46.900
man. You are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take
01:06:51.840
charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order