Order of Man - Defining Moments, Avoiding Anger, and Reframing Wrongdoing of Others

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart

00:00:04.900 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:10.240 You are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is

00:00:16.760 who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.380 you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, welcome to the Order of Man podcast. This is the Ask Me

00:00:29.720 Anything episode. My name is Kip Sorensen. I'm typically the co-host of this episode with

00:00:36.140 Mr. Mickler. Unfortunately, Ryan's traveling today, and so I am running solo. We're going

00:00:42.500 to field questions from the Iron Council. That's our exclusive brotherhood. You can learn more

00:00:47.360 about the Iron Council by going to orderofman.com slash ironcouncil. And then if we have enough

00:00:52.500 time, I may field a few questions from our Facebook group, which is at facebook.com slash

00:00:58.480 group slash orderofman. We're going to get right into this. No banter with myself. Our first

00:01:04.860 question, Marcus Segura, as it pertains to this month's topic within the Iron Council,

00:01:12.140 what transitions have you faced in your personal leadership or failures that could be seen as

00:01:18.940 defining moments? And as you can guess, our monthly topic within the IC is around defining

00:01:27.080 moments. He has a secondary question and don't worry, I'll address both. He says, in the same

00:01:32.100 regard, in leadership, you have choices coming into transition. How do you use your past experiences

00:01:39.420 to create defining moments? So first, what transitions have you faced in your personal leadership

00:01:45.360 or failures that could be seen as defining moments? This is a little bit of a tricky question

00:01:52.680 for me personally, Marcus, because it's kind of like one of those things like trauma where we utilize

00:02:02.700 that word and it means something drastically different to individuals. Typically, when I hear

00:02:08.280 defining moments or what I think are defining moments, there's probably a handful of those

00:02:13.260 throughout our entire life. And a defining moment is obviously a moment in time by which there was

00:02:19.900 transformation around how we show up or how we are being in the world. And to be frank, I think the

00:02:29.520 majority of those defining moments were made when we were younger. And although they served us in

00:02:37.100 particular ways as adults and as we become more aware of the unconscious, we might determine that

00:02:46.020 those defining moments no longer serve us. And so I know this isn't in the root of your question,

00:02:52.240 but I think we need to be careful in the assumption that all defining moments at all times in our life

00:02:59.020 are always beneficial. Now, in the spirit of your question, faced personal leadership, defining moment

00:03:07.660 for me, I would actually go back to, to be frank, a defining moment that I've had roughly about four or five

00:03:15.060 years ago. I'm, we have a split home. I have two boys from a previous marriage. My wife has a boy

00:03:24.800 from a previous marriage, and then we have kids together. And roughly about, you know, four or five

00:03:31.300 years ago, we were really struggling with one of those boys. He was, in my opinion, not making the best

00:03:38.540 decisions for himself. He was putting himself in difficult circumstances that, that frankly, was

00:03:46.560 going to affect his future. And unfortunately for my wife and I, we allowed it to affect our relationship

00:03:55.840 with him, how we saw him. And I realized, and I used to think this, and this was kind of that

00:04:03.680 defining moment. I used to feel like, Hey, you need to get your actions in line. You need to

00:04:09.180 show up in a way that, that I, that I feel you should, and stop doing all the things I, I feel

00:04:16.560 like you shouldn't be doing. And then we can have a better relationship. Then we can foster a positive

00:04:25.100 relationship and, and we can progress. But it was, it was based upon the pretense that he needed to do

00:04:31.920 that part first. And I would argue that a lot of us do this. I've done this numerous times in my

00:04:39.340 life where I felt like maybe my marriage could be better, but it, but it was based upon my wife

00:04:46.080 needing to change first. If she did these things, then I would. And, and maybe said another way, if I

00:04:53.100 have this, then I will do X, and then I will be happy or I'll be content. So it was rooted in having,

00:05:07.060 then doing, then being. Now, if you evaluate that, what is that based upon? A victim mindset. It's

00:05:15.720 outside of my realm of control. And not only that, but think of that from my teenage son's perspective.

00:05:21.920 Oh, son, only if you change your behavior, if you change how you are showing up in the world,

00:05:28.800 then we will have a relationship with you. Then maybe said another way, then we will love you.

00:05:35.220 Then we will see your challenges. Then we will have quote unquote, unconditional love. Horrible.

00:05:43.720 If you really think about the repercussions of that way of showing up in the world, horrible

00:05:48.800 approach. And so that was a, a major shift for me that I realized that I needed to change my mindset

00:05:57.960 about him, that I needed to see him as whole and complete. Now I could see him as whole and complete

00:06:07.160 and his divine self and his potential and separate that from his actions. I don't need to agree with what

00:06:14.460 he was doing, but I needed to not withhold my love, affection, and willingness to have a relationship

00:06:21.080 with him. And having that predicated on the actions that he took, said another way, I needed to be a

00:06:30.680 certain way, take the actions of being a great father. And then I was going to have the relationship

00:06:40.000 with him that I wanted. So I needed to be, do, and then have that type of relationship with him,

00:06:47.580 not have, do, and then be. So I needed to be happy, love him, do my job as a father, agnostic

00:06:58.940 of those things and take the necessary actions aligned with that. And then only then would I have the ability

00:07:05.840 to have the type of relationship I should have with my son. You can imagine I could take that same exact

00:07:11.180 framework and apply it to how I show up in my marriage, how I show up in relationships at work

00:07:17.380 with friends and et cetera, right? Such a profound statement. We need to focus on our mindsets and how

00:07:24.140 we are being in the world and not be sitting back waiting for all these things I need to have first

00:07:31.940 for me then to take action in regards to how I show up. Marcus's second question, in leadership,

00:07:39.440 you have the choice of coming into transition. How do you use your past experiences to create

00:07:45.500 defining moments? So let's talk about what creates a defining moment. I think a defining moment is a

00:07:53.360 moment of transformation or major shift, right? Where we see the world one way and maybe said like

00:08:00.380 Stephen Covey used to use a paradigm shift. We see the world one way and now our paradigm is

00:08:06.680 different. We see the world differently and we show what differently, right? In that defining moment.

00:08:11.820 So how do we take something of the past and use that in a positive way to show up more powerfully today?

00:08:19.360 And I think ultimately that is getting present in the moment and getting present of the impact

00:08:27.760 of that past experience. I think we naturally downplay our impact in the world. We downplay

00:08:35.240 the importance of things. And unfortunately for a lot of us, it requires a death of a loved one. It requires

00:08:43.320 your loved one wanting to leave you and no longer want to be with you for us to be confronted with

00:08:50.800 the impact that we have in our relationships and how much of that impact is within our realm of

00:08:58.120 responsibility and ownership. I think it's default behavior for us to show up as victims in this world

00:09:03.500 because it's an easy pass, right? Well, it's this way because of this and because of that I'm being

00:09:08.460 acted upon and it takes a lot of responsibility to take ownership. And so I think we avoid it,

00:09:14.340 but I think the defining moments are when we realize our impact in the circumstance, in the

00:09:21.480 situation. And we get really present to the idea that like my life is the way it is because I created

00:09:27.700 it this way. I've created this. So anybody listening, that's like you're down and out, right? Your marriage

00:09:34.680 isn't going well, work's not going well, or your relationship with your boss isn't well, or your

00:09:39.500 relationship with your employees isn't well, or anything. You pick it. Wherever you have an upset,

00:09:45.460 you need to get, we need, we need to get present to the idea that it is what you have created.

00:09:52.380 Now that's a tough pill to swallow. However, it is also empowering because if it means that if I created

00:09:59.260 this, then I can actually do something about it and we could take ownership and pivot and adjust,

00:10:06.240 but it's only in ownership where there's an opportunity of learning and development.

00:10:11.680 There's no growth in being a victim. Daniel Prine, what are some methods that you as men,

00:10:21.700 that we as men can utilize when trying to avoid anger in situations where anger is not the best

00:10:29.420 emotion to bring to the table? So how, what are some methods, right? Where we probably typically

00:10:36.640 get angry and we shouldn't, or it doesn't serve us. One, I don't know. This is interesting. In fact,

00:10:44.480 if you guys are watching this on YouTube, even, I mean, DMs or whatever, I'm actually interested

00:10:49.940 on your guys' feedback of when anger is the right emotion to bring to the table. I don't know if it

00:10:58.480 is. I think about jujitsu, right? If I'm in a physical conflict with someone, I'll be, I'll be

00:11:06.980 frank, man. If I come to the table or I come to the mats and I'm angry, that doesn't necessarily

00:11:13.500 always serve me. I get overly aggressive. I put myself in, in negative circumstances. Uh, and then

00:11:19.880 I get caught more. I think interesting. I I'm interested if anger in what circumstances you

00:11:27.820 guys think that anger might actually serve us. Put that in the comments below. If you're, if you're

00:11:32.740 listening to this on Facebook or on YouTube with that said, how do we avoid this? First off, let,

00:11:41.820 let's get clear what there is usually a big difference between what generates anger versus

00:11:51.340 the circumstance or the situation. There is what occurred, which is the situation. And then

00:12:00.020 there is the interpretation of the situation. Anger is usually derived from the interpretation,

00:12:06.320 not actually from the situation itself. It's what the situation means. And most importantly,

00:12:12.860 what it means about me. And so us getting present to that is the first step of this process. We got to

00:12:21.180 get really clear that our perceptions of the world, our perceptions of situations is not truth.

00:12:28.900 It's your perception, your creation of the situation. You need to own the meaning that we put around

00:12:37.980 situations. Now, based upon that concept, I believe that most upsets that we experience where we might

00:12:48.820 bring anger to the table is always one of three things. Number one, you're out of integrity. Number two,

00:12:56.340 you have unmet expectations. Or number three, you're not fully expressed. Let me give you an example of

00:13:03.920 each. If you're out of integrity, I come to work. I know what I should be doing. And actually, let me

00:13:11.540 pause. Let me reset what is integrity. Integrity is far more than just doing what you know you should do

00:13:20.620 when people aren't looking. That's the standard blue belt version of integrity. The black belt

00:13:27.320 interpretation of integrity is that as well as doing things the way they were meant to be done.

00:13:38.080 In life, we can check boxes really easily and say, I did it. But we know in our guts and in our hearts

00:13:44.820 that we may have not done it the way it was meant to be done. Integrity is more about self-betrayal with

00:13:54.660 your own interpretation of what you should have done more than anything else. Self-betrayal in I know the

00:14:02.180 quality of the work I should have done here and I cut corners. I'm out of integrity. Well, I did the things

00:14:08.820 and Bob's happy. So I'm not out of integrity. No, you might be out of integrity because you didn't do

00:14:13.980 it the way that you know you should have done it. It's a form of self-betrayal. Now, ironically enough

00:14:20.600 with this, why does this generate upset? Why would I be upset in circumstances? Because we have to justify

00:14:27.220 the lack of integrity. And that justification is usually a finger pointing towards someone else.

00:14:35.240 Let me give you an example. I may have shared it on the podcast before, but I'll do it again.

00:14:39.780 It is what it is. I have a little boy, my baby boy, Koa, two years ago, three years ago when he's a

00:14:47.580 toddler. I'm in bed. I'm sleeping. Mom sleeps great through the night. I don't necessarily. He starts

00:14:54.620 crying. I wake up. She doesn't wake up. And my mind and my heart says, Kip, you should get out of the bed

00:15:03.280 and take care of the baby. I am now confronted with a choice. I stay in bed, which requires

00:15:10.580 justification, form of self-betrayal, or I get out of the bed and do what I know I should do.

00:15:16.800 Now, you guys may not relate. Same thing. Alarm goes off to go to the gym, 5.30 a.m. You have a

00:15:25.060 choice. Get out of bed and go to the gym. Or if you choose to stay in that bed, what do you have to do?

00:15:30.520 You have to excuse it because it goes against the fabric of your being. So you need to lie to

00:15:38.060 yourself. You have to justify it. Well, you know, it was a late night or, oh, I'm kind of sore. It's

00:15:42.960 better that I get good rest than have a good workout. We come, we drum up the story to justify

00:15:50.260 the action. In this example of the baby, I justify my story of why not getting up? Why am I not getting

00:15:56.460 up? Because I work so hard. Poor me. It's her that can take a nap during the day. I can't take naps

00:16:04.100 during the day, but she can. And I start creating a perception around my wife to justify my lack of

00:16:12.060 action. We might even generate forms of victimhood. And it is a form of victimhood, by the way, a form

00:16:18.960 of victimhood and make someone out to be a persecutor, to justify our lack of action. And

00:16:26.680 thus we're out of integrity. Upset number one, integrity. Number two, unmet expectations.

00:16:33.560 I shouldn't have to deal with this. I have this expectation that I shouldn't have to do this type

00:16:40.000 of training for my employees. They should know. So I shouldn't have to deal with it. And then we sit

00:16:45.140 and we never complete the thought. And we sit with the unmet expectation of what we should or should

00:16:51.920 not have to be dealing with. And we just fester in it. And we just fester and we fester and we fester

00:16:57.140 because we're unwilling to let go of the expectation and deal in reality. A way I like to say this is we

00:17:05.200 never complete the thought. And what's the thought that we need to complete? I shouldn't have to do this.

00:17:10.320 And here's the complete thought. But you need to. So what are you going to do about it? And we take

00:17:17.760 on ownership and now we actively start taking action. But in this space of unmet expectations

00:17:24.660 where we just hold on and we fester and I shouldn't and should not have to, we're not taking

00:17:29.120 ownership in that circumstance. We're festering in our victimhood of, oh man, I shouldn't have to do

00:17:35.420 this. And so we don't take action. And so we need to let go and deal in reality. We all have difficult

00:17:42.020 circumstances. Our kids aren't perfect. Our wives aren't perfect. Our jobs aren't perfect. Your career

00:17:48.780 isn't perfect. So once you accept that, say, yeah, but guess what? It is what it is. So what are you

00:17:56.540 going to do about it? And when we take action, we get empowered. And that's how we address not being

00:18:03.800 angry because angry just sits there, right? And we fester and make everyone wrong for the

00:18:08.820 circumstance that we shouldn't have to be dealing with. And the last third upset example, not being

00:18:15.160 fully expressed. My hardest, by the way, I struggle with this. Super, super difficult for me to do

00:18:22.540 because I get in my own head and I justify and I explain why I shouldn't express how I feel

00:18:30.500 because I shouldn't feel this way anyway. And Kip, you're making a story. And so, you know,

00:18:35.620 just deal with your story and you don't have to express yourself. But the reality of it is when

00:18:40.420 we're not fully expressed, it shows up in other ways. So when we're upset, we need to share the

00:18:49.040 upset. Now here's the rub. We got to be careful what we're sharing. So wife does X, Y, Z. Remember,

00:18:59.000 there's a difference between the circumstance and my interpretation. She does the circumstance or the

00:19:04.020 situation. I add interpretation on top of it. I'm upset. If I don't communicate, I'll eventually

00:19:10.620 stonewall. I'm holding it back. It'll show up in other ways. I'll withdraw love and affection.

00:19:16.920 Or the next time that happens again, I'm even more triggered, et cetera, et cetera. So we need to be

00:19:22.480 expressed. We need to be fully expressed. Now, how do I do that? I don't say, hey, honey,

00:19:28.220 you pissed me off. I don't communicate from a position of victimhood. I own my interpretation.

00:19:36.320 Hey, when you did X, Y, Z, I know it doesn't logically make sense, but it felt like, or I

00:19:42.880 interpreted it as this. And I want to let you know it made me upset. No ask. Now, you might have a

00:19:51.180 request coming out of it, but I might just say, hey, when this happened that I interpreted this and

00:19:55.340 this makes me upset. So I'm just dealing with that. And I want to let you know. What that does

00:20:01.700 is allows her to understand me better. She gets what those triggers are about me. And she understands

00:20:08.720 the circumstance and doesn't make a bunch of other assumptions about something else. And I get

00:20:13.120 expressed. I get it off my chest a little bit. But be careful not to interpret your meaning as fact.

00:20:21.860 Own the meaning that you created and share it, whether it logically makes sense or not,

00:20:28.220 because it is something that you created that you're dealing with. Let them know what you're

00:20:32.400 dealing with. So once again, Daniel, I would suggest upsets, the way we manage those is really

00:20:39.400 by one of three things. We need to get an integrity. And if we're out of integrity, we need it to restore

00:20:45.900 our integrity. Number two, deal with unmet expectations by dealing in reality. Let go of

00:20:53.080 the unmet expectation and deal with what is so. And third, be fully expressed. When we're upset,

00:21:00.980 we need to address it. And we need to communicate it. And we need to communicate it from a position

00:21:06.200 of ownership, not from a position of victimhood. A little bit of a rant on that one. All right.

00:21:11.440 Next question. Josh Patterson. My ask me anything question is regarding the four quadrants. And I'll

00:21:20.800 explain those in the Iron Council. He says they are all important. But is there one that you

00:21:26.660 one that when executed extremely well helps define yourself and how you attack the rest? Thank you.

00:21:36.540 Thank you in advance, Josh. So within the Iron Council, our exclusive brotherhood,

00:21:42.100 learn more at orderofman.com slash iron council. We talk about, we have what we call our battle plans.

00:21:49.820 And think of our battle plans as our goal setting, if you want to use that term. And our battle plans

00:21:56.220 are broken into four quadrants. And I have a battle planner here. You can get yours at

00:22:00.680 store.orderofman.com. And the four quadrants are calibration, connection, condition, and contribution.

00:22:11.320 Now, Josh, it's not that simple. Let me first say that all four are critical. I've been in the ICU

00:22:20.660 long enough. I've ran battle teams long enough to know that when a guy doubles down on one of these

00:22:25.420 and then lets one lax or doesn't address the balance of all four, we have a problem. And eventually,

00:22:35.980 there will be a problem. So it's important that we maintain balance. Now, in the spirit of your

00:22:41.620 question, Josh, which one is kind of a little bit more important? Here's the rub. If you're getting

00:22:47.860 on the path, you've been off the path, life is chaotic, and you are struggling, the most important

00:22:54.540 quadrant, in my opinion, is condition because it's low-hanging fruit. Start going to the gym,

00:23:00.440 get your health in line, and start taking care of your body. That gives you more energy. It gives

00:23:06.600 you momentum. And as we know, when we do hard things, there's a mental element to that. And we

00:23:12.940 build confidence. So there's confidence gaining momentum that comes with the condition quadrant.

00:23:19.180 And so if I was having a conversation with someone and they're struggling in life, that's the first

00:23:24.380 question I'd ask is, how are you doing on your condition? I had a gentleman talk to me once about

00:23:30.160 struggling with pornography. And he's, man, Kip, I'm struggling in this area, and I just keep lapsing

00:23:36.400 and I go, what are you doing to prepare your mind for delayed gratification? What things are you doing

00:23:45.400 to have mental fortitude? Nothing. So can you even do like a hard workout or do you cheat even on the

00:23:53.560 workout? If you can't go through a hard workout and not cheat, you're going to cheat everywhere else in

00:24:00.040 life. So that's why the workout's a low-hanging fruit. It creates a momentum for us around mental

00:24:05.940 fortitude and all those other things. And so that's what my answer would be, Josh, for people just

00:24:10.720 getting on the path. Now, for us that maybe are a little bit been on the path for a while, my answer

00:24:16.940 is different. And my answer would be the calibration quadrant. You need to get right with yourself. We need

00:24:25.420 to make the unconscious conscious. We need to have strong emotional intelligence. We need to be

00:24:33.820 self-aware. Only through that can we not be a victim of the meaning that we constantly add to

00:24:41.380 everything. So calibration, for those that's been on the path for a while, that's kind of the

00:24:46.700 brown belt, black belt, I think, quadrant. White and blue belts, condition. All right, next question.

00:24:56.020 Sylvester Kwiatkowski. Sorry, man. Hopefully that's close. When are defining moments? One of my defining

00:25:08.000 moments, I should say, or I would say moments, was continuously verbal and physical abuse by my father.

00:25:16.520 Additionally, I did not have any positive male role models later in my life, and I did not actively seek

00:25:23.760 them out. This is why I rejected masculinity any way, shape, or form. From an archetype perspective,

00:25:32.060 I can see parts of that magician or lover in myself, but I have difficulties with the king or

00:25:40.400 the warrior part. My question is, how can I embrace these missing parts? What strategies and tactics can I

00:25:48.440 use to awaken the king and the warrior within me? For those not in Iron Council, maybe said another way,

00:25:56.680 how can I embrace more masculine ways of being when his past has obviously proven to him that anything

00:26:06.360 masculine was a huge negative perception or associated, right? Physical, verbal abuse,

00:26:14.060 no positive masculine role models in his life. How do you possibly embrace masculinity in such a

00:26:21.020 circumstance? And I sound like a broken record here, but man, it's the root of this. We need to get

00:26:28.840 present between the situation and the story we created. Did the verbal and physical abuse by your

00:26:37.240 father and the lack of masculinity in your life, did that happen because they were masculine? In fact,

00:26:43.120 I would even beat that up a little bit more. Did the continuous verbal and physical abuse from your

00:26:48.420 father mean that he didn't love you? Or did you create that? People might be losing their minds a

00:26:54.540 little bit here. Oh my gosh, Kip, you're justifying the fact that someone is abusive and that hardship is

00:27:00.840 something that you need to deal with. Yeah. If you don't want to be a victim of it, if you want to

00:27:07.280 make that horrible past a catalyst for you showing up powerfully as a man, the way you do that is

00:27:16.040 through empathy and through understanding. I really, really believe that. There's a big difference

00:27:23.500 between the physical abuse and the interpretation thereof. Own your interpretation. We have to say

00:27:32.340 that physical and verbal abuse is okay. I'm not saying any of that, but there's power in owning

00:27:39.200 your interpretation. Because often what we've done is we've lumped that meaning into one big basket,

00:27:46.320 maybe for you in particular, that that's what masculinity is. And until you unpackage that and

00:27:52.600 say, no, no, no, actually that's my creation. I created that interpretation that all masculine men

00:27:59.380 are this particular way. It's only then will you then see the difference between what occurred

00:28:04.980 versus what you've created. So we need to get present to the stories and the awareness

00:28:11.440 around those stories. Now, with that said, the next step of that process is get present to the benefits.

00:28:20.060 So I'd ask you, what are the benefits? Why? Why do you think you need to embrace

00:28:27.140 the king and the warrior part archetypes? Why? Because we read it in a book. Work through if those

00:28:35.440 things were present in your life, how they would have benefited you and get present to that. And then

00:28:41.180 the other part of it, I would say, if you're a father, get present to why your kids, your wife,

00:28:47.780 and those that you love need that element of you. Why they need that in their lives. If you can't answer

00:28:56.420 that question passionately, you're not connected to it, right? You need to get so present to that,

00:29:01.880 that it moves, touches, and inspires you into action. So there's no hack here other than working

00:29:11.320 through this, whether it's your past, projecting into the future, the pros and cons, and the studying

00:29:20.660 required of why this is so critical. And through that process, you're going to realize how critical

00:29:28.800 it is that you're masculine for those that you love. And what's being left on the table if you're not.

00:29:35.660 And if that doesn't move you to action, I don't know what will. Additional Resources, The Boy Crisis,

00:29:41.360 one of my favorite books of all time around this subject. Ryan's book, Sovereignty. Trust me,

00:29:47.780 there's tons of books and content around the values of this. I would get present to it and do your

00:29:54.320 necessary studying and self-awareness around how your past is being projected into your future.

00:30:02.040 And let me actually say one thing around that to you. Sylvester, if you don't mind me suggesting,

00:30:07.080 who you are is up to you. You're not defined by your past. And I really believe that. Anybody

00:30:13.980 that is locked into how they were raised and it's altered who they are and their relationships with

00:30:21.860 people. It's good to understand how those things impacted you, but it doesn't define you.

00:30:27.040 We have the ability to invent ourselves. I really do believe that. And so let go of the past and define

00:30:38.560 who you need to be right now as a man and what kind of man best serves those that they love and provides

00:30:48.780 a positive lasting impact in the lives of all those around. Define that for yourself and then be it

00:30:55.520 and let go of past meanings, circumstances around how that has defined you as an individual.

00:31:03.360 I feel like I'm going to get a little foo-foo-y on the answers here, but hopefully that resonates with

00:31:09.420 you. Okay. We're going to hop over to Facebook. Bob Ross, what tactics do you use when you must

00:31:16.760 make a decision for your family that not all members may be happy with? For example, moving to a new

00:31:24.380 home, even after a lengthy explanation and attempting to provide clarity, I find myself feeling guilty that

00:31:30.920 not all parties are pleased. Although I believe this decision will benefit all involved in the long

00:31:37.040 run. Thank you for your guidance and your perspective. All right, Bob. So this is a little

00:31:43.440 tough and I kind of want to project. So this might be a little bit applicable for more people. So

00:31:50.460 everyone listening, right? This is ultimately, how do I get people on board that haven't been on board?

00:31:57.540 Maybe that's from a work. Maybe that's from a family perspective. Now, Bob, particularly your

00:32:03.020 question from a family perspective, there's a big difference from the root of this is like all

00:32:08.840 members. What do you mean all members, right? Like your spouse, because getting your spouse on board is

00:32:14.220 a whole other decision than getting your kids on board. The reality of it is we don't need our kids

00:32:20.280 on board. Now it might be nice too, but ultimately in the end, you got to execute on what you feel is best

00:32:26.280 for your kids and for those that you lead and serve. Spouse, on the other hand, if you were saying,

00:32:32.600 hey, my spouse isn't on the same page and how do I get them on board? Or from a work perspective,

00:32:37.980 I can't get my employees on board, then you need to work on getting them on board. That's the answer.

00:32:44.720 Or if you can't communicate it in a way that they can get on board, one, we need to communicate better.

00:32:51.420 We need to get more clear in our own minds so we can communicate better. Or perhaps, especially from

00:32:57.280 a work perspective, maybe we shouldn't be doing it. If it is so hard for me in a leadership role

00:33:03.520 to get people to see the value of it, maybe I shouldn't be doing it. Or maybe I need to get

00:33:10.240 way more present of how it's going to serve and benefit them. And guess where the answer in that is?

00:33:16.280 It's in asking them. It's understanding their circumstance and their position and where they're

00:33:22.460 at. And maybe the answer is it doesn't serve them. It won't benefit them. So I think we need

00:33:28.940 to do a little bit more work to get people on board and or question whether we should be doing the thing

00:33:34.900 or not. Now, kids are a little bit different, right? But I would argue this isn't like a dichotomy.

00:33:42.000 I think it's like, hey, how do I get people on board that aren't on board? You get them on board

00:33:45.140 or you don't do it. So improve our communication. Get more clear on how it benefits and relate it to

00:33:52.120 what they need or how it will benefit them because we may not be making that translation

00:33:57.400 of how it will serve them. And if we don't know how it will serve them, then we need to be talking

00:34:02.220 with them to figure out what's best for them. Or we should be considering whether we made the right

00:34:07.820 decision or not. I know that's literally in your face, Bob, but hopefully that gives you some food

00:34:13.660 for thought. Ty Sherwood, what are some ways that you have overcome fear in the past and or some fears

00:34:22.140 you are facing today? So how have we overcome fears of the past and or deal with fears you are facing

00:34:28.840 today? By stopping the assumptions that who we are today is based upon moments from our past.

00:34:40.400 This is rooted on the first part of your question, Ty. Have overcome fears of the past. How do you

00:34:45.900 overcome fears of the past? It's in the past. It is what it is. Like it's over. Let it go. We need to

00:34:53.120 let go. Now that past affects us sometimes. So be careful. Like, you know, I'm being fair. I'm trying

00:34:59.460 to be fair here that, hey, well, Kip, that's great. All you want. But like, regardless of how much I let

00:35:04.160 go of the past and understand the interpretations I had of past experiences, when I go do X today,

00:35:09.360 I still have anxiety around it, right? And I still need to address it. Well, get present to why do you

00:35:16.620 have anxiety around it? Do you have anxiety and fear of the current circumstance from the mindset of

00:35:23.500 that past experience? Or is it real for you in the moment? Let me try this way. And we were talking

00:35:32.040 about this earlier, defining moments, right? So the unfortunate part is sometimes when we have

00:35:38.740 defining moments. And I mentioned this earlier, that defining moments sometimes don't serve us,

00:35:42.320 right? They serve us in the moment, but they don't serve us in the future. A defining moment I have.

00:35:47.380 And by the way, this is not truth. In fact, I don't even know if this is like legit. I just know this

00:35:55.360 is my interpretation as a five-year-old. Okay. So I'm going to share one of my first defining moments

00:36:01.980 with you guys. I was five years old. It was my first day of kindergarten. My mom drove me up to the

00:36:10.480 school and said, have a good time and told me to get out of the car. That's it. And I wandered around

00:36:18.840 the school. I had no idea where to go. I was scared. I didn't know anybody. I felt abandoned by my mom,

00:36:26.120 the one person that should take care of me more than anyone else. And I was scared. I took that

00:36:34.200 circumstance and I did what with it? I won't, I don't want to experience this ever again. So I'm

00:36:43.080 not going to do what? Rely on people. I'm not going to rely on anybody out of fear of abandonment from

00:36:51.000 them. Now here's the funny part. I don't even know if that happened. My mom could have walked me in

00:36:56.760 the school. I have actually no idea, but I remember this like it was no day, like, like it was like it

00:37:02.380 was yesterday. It was a defining moment for me. I saw the world one way. And after that experience, I saw

00:37:09.720 the world differently. And I decided I was going to show up differently in the world. Now you don't think

00:37:16.580 that five-year-old way of thinking shows up as a 44-year-old. It certainly does. And that's why

00:37:25.940 it's so critical that we understand the difference between what happened and our interpretation.

00:37:31.320 Because now when I have feelings of abandonment, I can remember and go, oh my gosh, like I know where

00:37:38.560 this is triggered from. And now I'm bringing that defining moment into my marriage with someone that is

00:37:46.160 not going to abandon me whatsoever. And so I need to understand those interpretations. Does that make

00:37:54.200 sense? So they don't define my present state of things. So your fear, overcoming fear of the past

00:38:01.320 may be from the mindset of a 10-year-old. So get present to the past of the past and let go of the

00:38:08.700 meaning. Now I want to be really clear. It's still there. It doesn't go away. But the awareness of it

00:38:15.220 allows you to act accordingly and not be driven by it. That's kind of what I'm trying to say. And I could

00:38:21.500 probably say that much better. Now, with that said, let's say, there's no psychological

00:38:27.140 defining moment in my past. And I just, I struggle with fear that I'm facing today. It's all about the

00:38:33.840 reps. How do you get over anything? How do you grow in any way? You give yourself reps. I have a fear of

00:38:43.280 going to the gym and getting smashed by a bunch of jujitsu guys. So what do I need to do? Go to the gym

00:38:48.280 and get smashed by jujitsu guys. That's how I get over it. And eventually it doesn't bother me anymore

00:38:53.860 to get smashed. How do I get over the fear of asking a girl out? You ask a girl out. How do I

00:38:59.860 get over the fear of something? You do it. That's how we do it. There's not like this hack of like,

00:39:06.200 hey, let me avoid the uncomfortable mindset that is associated. So then that way I'll take the

00:39:10.980 necessary action. No, you take the action. And one maybe little hack that might be available to you

00:39:17.900 is just be present of like, wait a second. Is this a valid thing to be fearful about?

00:39:24.420 No, it's not. That's kind of weird, but okay, whatever. I'm going to go anyway. And we have to

00:39:30.440 work in the reps. It's not glamorous, but that's the answer. Brian dubs Taylor. I'm curious how

00:39:38.960 forgiveness works for some of the more mentally stable appearing folks. Example. I can say I forgive

00:39:48.940 someone who screwed me over a long time ago, but if I see them or hear their name in my head,

00:39:55.260 I may think F them, but I'm a Christian and I know this is wrong. So I guess I'm asking

00:40:01.600 to hear someone's name or see them somewhere and not even briefly think some negative thought

00:40:09.460 or even hope the best for them and pray they've changed for the better. So how do we get past that

00:40:16.140 negative animosity? So this is good. Good question. The answer is you have empathy and you understand

00:40:24.640 them. One way that I've done this in the past is I think if I were them and I was raised the way

00:40:32.480 they were raised in the same circumstances, I would have made the same decision. Thus, who am I?

00:40:41.180 We are naive. And in fact, not only naive, it's a fundamental error in the space of psychology,

00:40:49.820 fundamental attribution error. When we attribute someone's action to their character, it's not so

00:40:56.780 simple. Often the hardship, the suffering, the pain that people that we experience from other

00:41:03.640 individuals is a byproduct of some other story and thing that they were doing. Most people

00:41:12.680 intentionally did not try to screw you over. Now, were they being selfish? Were they not thoughtful?

00:41:19.740 And all these other things? Sure. But the reality of it is most people walk around this world

00:41:26.380 trying to look good. They're avoiding looking bad and they're seeking the acceptance of other

00:41:32.300 individuals and there's collateral damage in that process. And most of the suffering that we experience

00:41:38.860 is in the space of collateral damage. And it's unfortunate and it's horrible and it's sad or whatever.

00:41:45.380 But the quicker that we can get to empathy and love for those individuals, that is when you're able

00:41:52.740 to let go. And then you almost not just like feel like sorry for them, but you get it. And it's kind

00:42:00.080 of just like, oh man, that's unfortunate. I feel for them. Now, I'm not saying you drop boundaries and

00:42:06.660 put yourself in tough circumstances or your family in circumstances. I don't say that. But you can actually

00:42:10.800 have empathy and love for someone and it's actually rooted in understanding them. Separate the story

00:42:17.580 from the action. There is what happened to us and then there is what we made it mean. Most of the

00:42:26.540 suffering we experience in life is in the meaning and not what happened. And then you can look at what

00:42:35.200 happened and have some empathy in the actions that they took once you remove the meaning that you

00:42:41.220 created around it. And I know this works, Brian. I know this works. I've done this. I've had those

00:42:49.660 people in my life that I could not stand, that I hated, people that I've hated. And I can honestly say

00:42:58.580 that those people, I love them and I get it. And I feel sorry for them. I really do. And it makes me

00:43:08.720 even more grateful for my life and my experiences that I didn't have to deal with some of the things

00:43:16.780 that they dealt with that got them in the circumstances that they're in. So have some

00:43:22.500 empathy. And let's stop pretending that we are so quick to judge and assume everybody's reasons and

00:43:29.160 stories. It's naive and it lacks intelligence and critical thinking. That's why most people judge

00:43:38.960 because it's the lazier thing to do. The difficult thing is to critically think.

00:43:45.140 All right, gentlemen, that's all I have for today. As always, you can connect with Mr.

00:43:50.020 Mickler on X and Instagram at Ryan Mickler. To learn more about the Iron Council, go to

00:43:56.100 orderofman.com slash Iron Council. Enrollment is closed until January. However, if you want to get

00:44:02.540 on that path of getting after it, you can join us on our battle ready program. That's orderofman.com

00:44:08.840 slash battle ready. Thank you for your questions. Thanks for banning with us. And until Friday for

00:44:18.260 Friday Field Notes, let's take action and become the men that we were meant to be. Thank you for

00:44:23.840 listening to the Order of Man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man

00:44:28.920 you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - October 11, 2023

Defining Moments, Avoiding Anger, and Reframing Wrongdoing of Others ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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