Order of Man - DEWAYNE NOEL ｜ A Simple Guide to the Good Life

00:00:00.000 On our perpetual quest for bigger, better, faster, wealthier, stronger,

00:00:06.640 we're often led to believe that more is the answer.

00:00:09.520 More gadgets, advanced technology, connections, resources, money, entertainment, etc.

00:00:16.440 But what if there was a case to be made that the answer to fulfillment is not in more, but in less?

00:00:22.960 My guest today, Dwayne Knoll, makes that case and we talk about why less is more,

00:00:27.280 how to reduce noise and chaos and distraction in the modern world,

00:00:33.180 the value of a hard day's work,

00:00:34.920 what we can learn about human behavior through good horsemanship,

00:00:39.020 and why good men ride good horses.

00:00:42.040 You're a man of action.

00:00:43.580 You live life to the fullest.

00:00:45.020 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:47.960 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:52.380 You are not easily deterred or defeated.

00:00:54.180 rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:57.480 This is your life.

00:00:58.560 This is who you are.

00:00:59.980 This is who you will become.

00:01:01.460 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:07.240 Gentlemen, welcome to the Order of Man podcast.

00:01:09.420 I am Ryan Mickler.

00:01:10.820 Glad that you are here, excuse me.

00:01:13.020 Glad that you're back.

00:01:14.620 And glad that you're tuning in for the first time, if you are.

00:01:17.320 And if you are, I have a treat for you today.

00:01:19.740 This is one of my favorite podcasts to date with a man that I've known for years now.

00:01:25.320 In fact, he was on this podcast before, and he has hit some major, major strides in sharing his message

00:01:32.500 with people who want to improve and hear it in a way that actually lands and resonates.

00:01:38.860 So I was his first podcast that he ever did, and he's back after years to talk about round two.

00:01:45.120 I am going to get into that in a minute.

00:01:46.600 Before I do, I just want to mention that this is partly possible, not only because you guys that are listening and tuning in and sharing,

00:01:53.720 but also my friends over at Montana Knife Company.

00:01:56.840 They make knives, knives in America, good knives.

00:02:00.360 And I'm just packing up for a hunt that I'm going to be on in Minnesota as of the release of this podcast.

00:02:05.740 And you better believe I've got my Montana Knife Company knife with me,

00:02:09.760 sharpened and ready to go for success.

00:02:12.820 You'll also hear in this podcast, I gifted Dwayne a Montana Knife Company knife as well.

00:02:17.940 So if you're interested, check them out, montananifecompany.com.

00:02:21.240 Use the code ORDEROFMAN, all one word, to save some money.

00:02:25.180 Guys, without further ado, I want to jump into this.

00:02:28.560 Dwayne Noel, if you're not already familiar, and you probably are, he's a modern day horseman.

00:02:33.100 He's an educator.

00:02:34.480 He's got over two decades immersed in the horse life as a professional, as a private owner.

00:02:42.280 He's also the founder of Dry Creek Wrangler School.

00:02:45.340 A lot of you guys have heard of that.

00:02:46.600 It's a program that uses horsemanship as a springboard of sorts for a broader life and leadership lessons.

00:02:54.760 And I was able to visit his property in Kentucky to hold this conversation and see his horses and see what he does there.

00:03:01.200 He was raised in a very strong old school family in central Kentucky, seventh generation, he told me, in fact.

00:03:07.500 And he always embraced the dream of becoming a cowboy early, and he never, ever let it fade.

00:03:12.540 And also, in addition to his work with horses, he shares his experiences in faith and fatherhood.

00:03:19.400 He's a father of seven grown children, and also just personal transformation.

00:03:23.300 He's got this really unique, down-to-earth message and experience, and that's helped him emerge as a voice for men who are looking for grounded, practical advice and wisdom.

00:03:37.640 And also the balance between strength and humility and the value of being genuinely present to all life has to offer.

00:03:47.040 Check it out, guys.

00:03:47.680 You'll like this one.

00:03:50.000 Wayne, it's good to be out here visiting you, and you put me to work already, so it's been a good day.

00:03:54.280 I did, man.

00:03:54.900 It's not safe coming out here.

00:03:56.700 I know.

00:03:57.160 I wish I would have known.

00:03:58.280 I would have said, let's go do this in a studio somewhere.

00:04:00.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:04:00.800 No, I think this is better.

00:04:02.420 You know, I think there's, I don't know, something to be said for men working.

00:04:08.400 I found that to be true.

00:04:09.740 If men are working together towards a common objective, it seems like we can relate better.

00:04:14.000 Right, absolutely.

00:04:16.580 There's not enough work in our society today, and a lot of what is work,

00:04:24.640 and I'm not knocking or taking away from computer programmers and, you know,

00:04:30.660 but it's just not physical sweat, get stuff done.

00:04:34.720 Yeah.

00:04:35.200 And it makes a difference.

00:04:37.140 Yeah.

00:04:37.920 When you said there's not enough work, I'm like, no, there's enough work.

00:04:40.420 There's just not enough people willing to do it, it seems like.

00:04:43.220 Right, right.

00:04:43.740 The hard physical stuff that, you know, what this country, that made the, I don't know,

00:04:52.320 that made the men what they are today, you know, the physical, constructing, building,

00:04:57.520 creating, you know, where you can turn around and look back at it and say, you know,

00:05:06.680 like today, we cut firewood.

00:05:08.120 Right.

00:05:08.300 You know, there's a big old pile of firewood out there, and it's like, we can turn around

00:05:10.900 and look at that.

00:05:11.460 And then while you're off in Utah this winter doing whatever, I'll be sitting in front of

00:05:16.820 my wood stove burning the wood that we cut today.

00:05:20.360 And it's just, yeah, there's something, I don't want to use the word primitive, but I

00:05:27.340 think there is a certain element of primitive that is missing from a lot of people's life

00:05:35.120 today.

00:05:35.460 I think I would say primitive, but maybe even primal, right?

00:05:39.800 Where we need to tap back into our primal roots as men, because we just don't, we were

00:05:43.380 talking about softness and city boys who can't change tires and can't get themselves out

00:05:49.060 of a sticky situation.

00:05:50.420 Right.

00:05:51.080 Well, you know, today we were cutting firewood and I was cutting through that big old pine

00:05:55.260 log and there was a little rock underneath it I didn't see.

00:05:58.380 And I got down a little too deep and I hit that rock, which dulls the chain immediately.

00:06:03.060 And I didn't have a spare.

00:06:04.380 So we ran into town and got a spare and came out.

00:06:08.360 So, and, and I, it was, I was wondering as, as I was swapping that chain out real quick

00:06:13.560 on the tailgate of the truck, I wonder how many men are still out there today that can

00:06:17.980 just swap a chain out on a chainsaw.

00:06:20.540 Probably not many.

00:06:21.860 So.

00:06:22.440 Probably not many.

00:06:22.940 And anybody who even, I don't even know if anybody could turn one on.

00:06:26.220 Very many people could even turn the dang thing over.

00:06:28.320 Yeah.

00:06:29.180 Yeah.

00:06:30.200 Well, Hey, I've got a gift for you before we get too much into this.

00:06:32.800 And you're talking about making things with your hands and, um, like every good man, you

00:06:37.560 got to have a good tool.

00:06:38.920 So a company that, um, has been good friends of mine.

00:06:41.980 Have you heard of Montana knife?

00:06:43.060 I have.

00:06:43.940 So, uh, they were kind enough to send this out to me and I wanted to gift you with that

00:06:48.780 knife.

00:06:49.120 If you want to check it out.

00:06:49.920 Very nice.

00:06:50.760 Yeah.

00:06:52.080 Yeah.

00:06:52.460 A knife is, in fact, it's on our list of things for the students to bring.

00:06:56.100 It's on the list.

00:06:56.780 Bring a knife.

00:06:57.500 Yeah.

00:06:57.720 A horseman always needs a knife on him for emergencies and for, uh, cutting ropes and

00:07:05.560 getting horses out of trouble and stuff.

00:07:07.420 Yeah.

00:07:08.800 It is amazing.

00:07:09.720 I got, while you're opening that, I got a compliment.

00:07:11.800 Uh, I had a friend, I was sitting in some bleachers and I had a friend say, he yelled

00:07:15.480 up from above, he was two or three rows above me and said, Hey Ryan, do you have a knife?

00:07:19.540 So of course I have a knife.

00:07:20.880 And I gave it to him.

00:07:21.500 He's like, I asked you first because I knew you would actually have a knife.

00:07:23.920 I knew you would have one.

00:07:24.720 Um, we were a bunch of my buddies, all our families had met several years ago for a family

00:07:30.860 holiday.

00:07:32.260 Um, I think it was a Christmas deal and somebody was trying to open a gift and somebody asked,

00:07:38.740 anybody got a knife?

00:07:39.660 And there were like eight knives suddenly appeared all over the place.

00:07:44.560 That is nice.

00:07:45.180 As it should be, right?

00:07:46.020 Yes.

00:07:46.560 As it should be.

00:07:47.600 I think if a man doesn't carry even some kind, at least some kind of pin knife or something,

00:07:52.660 they ought to, uh, they ought to take his man card away.

00:07:55.040 Yeah.

00:07:56.000 Like, uh, like that general said, you know, you may have to cut some cheesecake.

00:08:03.380 Wow.

00:08:04.020 Very nice.

00:08:04.920 Yeah.

00:08:05.060 Thank you, sir.

00:08:05.700 You're welcome.

00:08:06.340 Appreciate that.

00:08:07.060 You're welcome.

00:08:07.520 I hope you enjoyed it.

00:08:08.240 I hope you put it to good use.

00:08:09.540 Oh, I'm sure I will.

00:08:10.580 You got a crew of people coming tomorrow.

00:08:11.960 It sounds like to teach a horsemanship.

00:08:14.060 Next batch of students are coming in tomorrow.

00:08:16.160 Yeah.

00:08:17.120 Yeah.

00:08:17.680 What, um, when they come into town and they're learning, I know there's a broad array of their

00:08:22.940 skillset from beginners and novices to maybe some professionals in there.

00:08:27.240 Are there some common themes that you see that, uh, they need to learn about these horses or

00:08:31.900 about even themselves?

00:08:33.700 Well, we teach, I say it like this.

00:08:38.980 This is basically kindergarten of horsemanship.

00:08:43.080 Um, but I have people who come in and this is their testimony, not, not just mine, who've

00:08:50.320 been doing horses for 20 years and, uh, people who've worked on ranches and wrangled and had their

00:08:57.740 own horses and everything, but they were never taught the basics, the act.

00:09:02.400 They never understood the horse as an individual, the instinct of the horse, the way the horse thinks,

00:09:09.300 all, all, all of the things that make a horse, a horse instead of a breathing four-wheeler.

00:09:15.560 And so that's, that's where we start.

00:09:19.120 Um, we, we start with the very basics and, uh, and, you know, I, I see it on some of them

00:09:24.620 on their faces when we start out and they're like, this is really, really basic.

00:09:29.520 But we get about four days in and the light clicks.

00:09:33.740 They're like, oh, that's why I've not been able to do all this stuff all these years.

00:09:38.920 I tell them, I've started warning them.

00:09:41.460 I said, you ever see that the original karate kid movie with Ralph Macchio, you know, wax

00:09:47.640 on, wax off, painting the fence.

00:09:50.400 And he gets mad and he gets frustrated because he doesn't see the purpose in it.

00:09:54.260 And then all of a sudden, one day it all falls into place and it's like, wow, there is a purpose

00:09:58.440 for this.

00:09:59.500 That's kind of what it's like here.

00:10:01.620 You know, we start teaching stuff and I can see some of them, this is not what I expected,

00:10:07.260 you know, but then a third or fourth day, like I said out there and it clicks, the light

00:10:12.000 comes on.

00:10:12.560 They're like, this is the hole that has been missing in my horsemanship for all these years.

00:10:17.140 And so we take everybody back to the beginning.

00:10:21.820 You could say we take people who are trying to learn algebra, but never to learn their

00:10:26.760 multiplication tables.

00:10:28.140 We take them back to the multiplication tables, if you want to illustrate it like that.

00:10:33.340 You know, I heard a story that Vince Lombardi, when you have a new season and a new batch of

00:10:39.160 players, he would always teach them.

00:10:41.820 I think it was either Vince Lombardi or maybe even John Wooden would say, here's your socks.

00:10:47.140 Well, this is a football.

00:10:48.480 This is a football.

00:10:49.340 Yeah, Lombardi would do football.

00:10:50.500 I think John Wooden would teach the guys how to put their socks on and tie their shoes right.

00:10:54.200 That's what it was.

00:10:55.300 And these are, you know, for John Wooden, you know, incredible young, athletic, the most

00:11:01.840 athletic men on the planet.

00:11:03.760 And he's teaching them how to put their socks and shoes on.

00:11:06.480 They've been playing basketball for two decades at that point almost.

00:11:10.180 Right.

00:11:10.700 And, you know, I teach them how to properly saddle a horse.

00:11:12.920 It's amazing how many people don't know that they don't know how to properly saddle a horse.

00:11:18.700 They don't know where the saddle goes.

00:11:20.280 So we start all that.

00:11:22.520 We start out at the beginning.

00:11:24.700 You shared a really interesting story with me today about the quote was, they ride good

00:11:29.500 horses.

00:11:30.240 Right.

00:11:30.660 And I was really intrigued by the meaning of that because I'd never heard that term before.

00:11:36.720 Would you share that with us?

00:11:38.380 So I'm working on a book, and it's basically a literary version of the channel.

00:11:44.760 It's horse, it's stories.

00:11:47.000 Most of them have to do with horses and then draw a life lesson from that.

00:11:51.680 But, you know, in the horse world, and more years, years ago, maybe so than today, you

00:11:58.520 know, the saying about a fellow is he rode good horses.

00:12:01.120 And that's about the best compliment you could give a guy in that culture because your horse

00:12:06.240 is a, he's a mirror of you.

00:12:09.680 You know, people ask, what's wrong with my horse?

00:12:13.440 There's nothing wrong with your horse.

00:12:15.320 What's wrong with you?

00:12:16.260 You know, so when you get a good man in the horse world, you know, he's up in years, and

00:12:22.760 he's been there, and he's proven himself, and about the finest compliment you can give

00:12:26.840 is he rides good horses.

00:12:29.060 He rode good horses.

00:12:31.360 And that's, that's, you know, what, at least working title, if the publisher allows it to

00:12:36.060 stay, that's, that's what I want the title to the book to be.

00:12:40.020 You're, the results of your life should be what you produced, what you turned out, what

00:12:52.200 you have produced in life should be a mirror of who you were inside.

00:12:57.040 You should end your life riding good horses.

00:13:02.780 You talked a little bit about your epitaph as well.

00:13:05.880 Would you share that with me?

00:13:06.720 Um, yeah, my wife, my kids for years now, it's written down, they know, when I kicked

00:13:11.020 the bucket, my epitaph is he loved his God, he loved his family, and he rode good horses.

00:13:16.780 And I don't, I can't think of anything, um, I don't think of anything anybody could add

00:13:23.700 to that for a man to leave this earth and say what he left behind.

00:13:30.180 Um, I think that's, to me, that's the ultimate, and that's all I need anybody to say about me.

00:13:36.720 It seems like in, uh, in society today, we're missing more and more of that.

00:13:42.020 I think a lot of men are lacking purpose and direction in their life.

00:13:45.820 And I wonder what you think about that.

00:13:47.740 I, you know, I've, I've talked about this before with some others.

00:13:51.900 And, you know, in this, I don't, I don't like the term, but let's, let's say manosphere world

00:14:01.200 we live in, you know, men trying to help men get better.

00:14:04.660 I think one of the things that is missing is why, you know, young men are, they're, they're

00:14:13.800 taking better care of themselves physically.

00:14:15.960 So they're better physically and they're studying all these self-help books and they're, they're

00:14:20.680 taking better care of their finances.

00:14:23.060 And why are, that's all well and admirable, but why are you doing this?

00:14:28.540 So I can be a better man.

00:14:30.180 Why do you want to be a better man?

00:14:32.720 And I think that's where the whole thing falls off the cliff for many.

00:14:37.600 It's like their purpose is to be a better man, but they don't have a true, clear purpose

00:14:42.660 on why be a better man and a better man is a man who can better serve, um, those around

00:14:52.620 him, not a weak man.

00:14:54.320 I get a lot of negative feedback about this idea.

00:14:59.800 They're like, oh, that's a weak man.

00:15:01.720 You know, do that.

00:15:02.740 No, that, that is the strongest of strong men.

00:15:06.000 A man who can do what he does and sacrifice what he sacrifices for the betterment, for

00:15:13.740 the good and for the strength of others.

00:15:15.700 And I, I think no matter what you're doing in life, in pursuing your life, your end goal

00:15:22.420 ought to be, I'm going to be better so that I can be better for somebody else.

00:15:29.040 Um, you know, a fireman, he, he works out and he's strong for the purpose of being able

00:15:36.200 to carry somebody out a window and down a ladder.

00:15:38.820 It's not just so he can flex in the mirror and say, look at my abs.

00:15:42.880 The purpose is so that he is better fit and able to serve somebody else.

00:15:47.240 And I think that's a perfect example and illustration how all of us should live our life.

00:15:53.160 My biggest battle personally, me, Dwayne, my biggest battle is to become a, a calmer,

00:16:02.540 more measured person.

00:16:04.500 You know, you and I, when we very first talked, our very first podcast, you were my first podcast

00:16:09.740 I remember that.

00:16:10.800 And that's what, one of the things we, you know, that came up.

00:16:14.880 Well, my purpose for that is not so that I can be a better, more calm, more measured man,

00:16:21.780 but my purpose for that is so that I'm better for those that are around me.

00:16:27.020 Um, you know, it's, it's not just, it can't be about me.

00:16:32.360 Otherwise there's no purpose.

00:16:35.220 Has there, I mean, clearly there's been some times in your life, we've talked a little bit

00:16:39.040 about it where you didn't have that calm presence, that demeanor that I think people really enjoy

00:16:45.280 about the way you shared your stories and your messages.

00:16:48.320 Did that reason for trying to build some more calmness into your life come because it was

00:16:55.120 not that way?

00:16:55.920 And how, how was that when you were, um, I had just gotten to a particular point in life,

00:17:02.180 um, that my wife didn't like me anymore.

00:17:06.560 My kids didn't like me anymore.

00:17:08.300 I didn't like me anymore, you know, and I was making decisions and, and being a way around

00:17:18.180 people that was just, and I got to the point, I'm like, I can't live the next, if I have

00:17:25.940 another 50 years, I can't live the next 50 years.

00:17:28.300 Like I've lived the last 50 years.

00:17:29.900 I, I, I look in the mirror and it's like, man, I do not like this guy.

00:17:35.040 And the reason I don't like this guy is because this guy is not likable, you know?

00:17:40.380 And, uh, so there were, so that had just years of culmination and, and everything had come

00:17:48.000 together to the point where it came to a head and it came to a head in the family.

00:17:52.700 And, and it was like, no, there has to be changes or you're fixing to lose everything.

00:17:58.360 Yeah.

00:17:59.440 And so, you know, it's easy for, you know, somebody who might be listening or, or, or, uh,

00:18:07.440 watching or whatever to our conversation to say, oh, okay, well, one day it just became

00:18:11.660 calmer, but I'm sure it was a process.

00:18:14.780 What did that actually look like?

00:18:16.440 What is it still looking like?

00:18:18.680 Um, it's, it's a journey.

00:18:21.620 I mean, it's, it, it never stops and it's a daily thing.

00:18:25.780 My wife will say, uh, in the school, you know, there's horses and horses are individuals and

00:18:35.180 there's people and people are people and situations will come up and, and my wife will, when it's

00:18:42.620 done, she's like, man, I, I didn't think you was going to get through that.

00:18:50.020 I'm really shocked.

00:18:51.820 Five years ago, you would have not handled that like that, but it's still a battle this,

00:18:55.740 this week.

00:18:56.740 And does this last class of horse of students we had, we had a kind of a cool windy day,

00:19:04.940 which anybody that works horses knows that horses, they, their energy level, their alertness,

00:19:11.700 everything comes up on a windy day.

00:19:14.620 And, uh, so I had a windy day.

00:19:16.760 I had, um, well, my wife is, she's working on a young filly now and now, and she was on

00:19:24.480 that filly.

00:19:25.060 And that filly wouldn't really behave in the way she ought to.

00:19:28.780 And, uh, and I had another horse on the side that somebody else was riding that wasn't,

00:19:36.020 I had three horses outside of the students.

00:19:39.640 I had three situations that were just not as calm.

00:19:43.420 Then I had the high wind and I was trying to speak above the wind and I had brand new

00:19:47.400 students who didn't know what they were doing.

00:19:49.060 And I had a student, there was not, nothing negative, nothing on him.

00:19:54.040 Okay.

00:19:54.480 But there was a bit of a language barrier and he was totally brand new and I was trying

00:19:59.960 to give instruction and he just wasn't getting through.

00:20:03.780 And that's on me as a teacher, as the communicator, the responsibility of communication is on me,

00:20:10.680 not the one receiving it.

00:20:12.400 Um, but I was coming to that place and my wife saw it.

00:20:16.600 And Tom, uh, the, the young man who works with me here, he's been with me for three years

00:20:23.780 now.

00:20:24.300 He saw it.

00:20:25.840 And so he quietly stepped in and rephrased what I was trying to this young man.

00:20:36.200 And I stepped back about three steps to where my horse was standing and just stepped back

00:20:41.680 and leaned on the saddle and watched him and everything just kind of, but it was,

00:20:46.600 it was there.

00:20:47.360 And it's like, it's something I constantly have to watch and constantly have to be aware

00:20:52.580 of.

00:20:53.480 Um, it, uh, and, uh, and I make sure the things in my life that used to keep me ginned up,

00:21:03.080 they're just, I just don't have them in my life anymore.

00:21:05.660 You know, I, we don't have television up here.

00:21:08.120 I don't watch movies.

00:21:09.400 I haven't watched a movie.

00:21:12.780 Oh man.

00:21:15.380 We well over a year.

00:21:17.420 Um, and I just, I just don't do that stuff.

00:21:20.820 I just, and when school's over, a lot of times, you know, I'm polite, I'm courteous.

00:21:25.540 We sit around, we have supper.

00:21:26.740 And then everybody's beginning to understand I'll leave.

00:21:30.560 It's like the whole social thing is my well's running dry and I'll just, I'll just quietly

00:21:36.540 get up and go sit on my porch or come in here and read a book or do something.

00:21:40.280 And I jealously guard my piece because I don't, uh, I'm not going to let anything take me back

00:21:52.740 to the guy that I used to be.

00:21:54.940 I just, I don't want to go there.

00:21:57.440 And so I, it's just, it's a daily, you know, I hear, I never had a problem with alcohol,

00:22:02.460 but I've heard guys who've, you know, who fought and kicked that and they're like, it's

00:22:06.060 a daily thing, you know?

00:22:07.060 Uh, and it gets easier over time.

00:22:10.560 But yeah, it's, it's not something you just flip a switch overnight and it's done.

00:22:14.680 You just, you know, it's like if you've, if you're physically super sick, you know, you're

00:22:20.500 not healthy, you start noticing the things that you're eating that are making things worse

00:22:26.260 for you and stop eating them.

00:22:27.680 And that's a journey.

00:22:28.580 You know, some of you find that and get rid of that, find that and get rid of that.

00:22:31.920 And, oh, there's something good.

00:22:32.960 I'll replace this with that.

00:22:34.840 And, you know, you just start, if you're unhealthy emotionally.

00:22:39.200 Find the poison that's poisoning you emotionally and just start getting rid of it.

00:22:45.820 And, uh, and then find healthy things emotionally and start incorporating that into your life.

00:22:54.180 Go ahead.

00:22:54.920 My front porch, my rocking chair, my cigars.

00:22:58.040 I mean, that's what we did this morning.

00:22:59.420 That's it.

00:22:59.840 That's how I start my day.

00:23:01.160 And I said, when are we getting going?

00:23:02.620 And you're like, we're not on any time constraints out here, which I appreciate it.

00:23:06.720 Yeah.

00:23:06.900 I'm like, nope, I don't live that life anymore.

00:23:09.800 Yeah.

00:23:10.300 You know, what's funny though, too, is I got here late last night.

00:23:13.180 I got here about 1130.

00:23:15.040 And, you know, you and your wife put me up here.

00:23:18.900 And, um, I slept so good.

00:23:20.920 I told you, I slept so good last night.

00:23:22.620 Why did I sleep as good as I did last night?

00:23:24.640 It's because I wasn't with all of the other things that at times are good.

00:23:31.380 They're, they're things that I'm pursuing.

00:23:33.040 They're things I'm interested in, but it's a good way to unplug and get away from technology

00:23:37.620 or social media or all the other demands for my attention on a daily basis.

00:23:42.280 Well, people see these, the size of my presence on social media and internet and the YouTube

00:23:51.060 channels and everything.

00:23:51.900 And I think they get the idea that this is a bigger, bougier, um, thing than it is.

00:23:59.480 I mean, as you found out when you got here, we, we're off the grid.

00:24:03.620 Well, and you told, you said, we don't have electricity.

00:24:05.760 I'm like, well, you have a generator, right?

00:24:07.140 I need a generator.

00:24:08.260 We fired up a generator for this, but I mean, there was no, there was no blue lights on the

00:24:13.700 wall from a television or from a DVD player or from an Xbox.

00:24:18.020 There were no, you know, there were none of that stuff.

00:24:21.140 It was just dark.

00:24:22.220 It was just quiet, you know, except for the, you know, we've got those barred owls and coyotes

00:24:28.540 and the roosters at about six o'clock this morning.

00:24:30.960 We're going off.

00:24:31.380 You got me going, yeah.

00:24:32.380 Yeah.

00:24:32.600 But you know, all that electronic stuff, we just, we, you know, we've got our phones

00:24:39.400 because I have to make videos and, but you know, we, we charge them and then do what

00:24:43.740 we need to do.

00:24:44.400 But yeah, it's sleep a whole lot better, rest a whole lot better.

00:24:48.660 And I've heard, I heard some noises I've not heard in a while.

00:24:51.380 Like, I don't know if I heard a coyote or the dog.

00:24:53.740 So I think it was the dog was out there.

00:24:55.500 He didn't like you.

00:24:57.900 Not at first.

00:24:59.100 He does now.

00:24:59.740 He does now.

00:25:00.500 It took him, it took him a minute.

00:25:02.300 And then I heard, heard the acorns, I think dropping and I'm like, what is that noise?

00:25:07.420 And I heard the chickens this morning.

00:25:09.340 And yeah, but those are all natural noises, natural noises.

00:25:11.840 So even though it was like, what is that?

00:25:13.700 It was the element you're supposed to be in.

00:25:16.360 Right.

00:25:17.080 Right.

00:25:18.880 What, um, it sounds like you have some really good people around you, like Tom and your wife

00:25:24.080 and your kids.

00:25:25.540 And they, it seems like they're all supportive of your growth that you're talking about, becoming

00:25:31.640 more calm, becoming more present.

00:25:34.600 Is that, is that challenging in any way?

00:25:37.020 You know, I think of kids, for example, I don't know if they've ever said like, well, this

00:25:41.360 isn't the version of dad that I got when I grew up and they feel chipped or something

00:25:45.060 like that.

00:25:46.560 We haven't talked about it, but I, I'm sure that's there.

00:25:51.760 I'm, I'm sure it's a, it's a case of, because all of this happened after they left home.

00:25:59.680 And so it's a case of, you know, is, I think there's some there in the back of their mind.

00:26:06.700 Is this a, is this a personality that he's putting out there?

00:26:11.580 Cause that's not who I remember growing up with, but they are, they do bring the grandbabies

00:26:16.640 and they come visit and they are seeing, you know, Deanna said they've, you know, some of

00:26:21.040 them have mentioned to her that, you know, they, they've seen a difference.

00:26:26.200 Um, and so, but yeah, there's, there's still amongst some of my children and there's not,

00:26:34.360 you know, I want to say here in my defense, I wasn't abusive, you know, but I did have

00:26:38.920 a really quick temper.

00:26:40.020 I was very disciplinary and I was very hard.

00:26:43.560 Um, and, uh, you know, to the point where everybody was walking on eggshells and that's

00:26:50.940 no way to grow up.

00:26:52.080 You know, that's no way to live in a house.

00:26:53.800 I see that, I know that, and, uh, so I think there's still, I mean, it's been right now

00:27:00.760 this journey has been going on for like four years and you know, there's still, we'll, we'll

00:27:06.220 wait and see, which I get, I support it.

00:27:08.500 You know, I understand.

00:27:09.880 I don't blame you.

00:27:11.540 Um, but my wife is like, I'm not going to let anybody take you back to who you used to

00:27:16.960 be.

00:27:17.200 So we've got a business phone for the school.

00:27:19.980 I'm not allowed to touch it.

00:27:21.340 I don't pick it up.

00:27:22.360 I don't answer it.

00:27:24.060 She screens every, cause we get people all the time, call the business phone.

00:27:28.600 You know, I want, I want to talk to Dwayne.

00:27:30.360 She's like, you can't talk to Dwayne.

00:27:32.300 I want, I need counseling.

00:27:33.840 I want, nope, you can't talk to Dwayne.

00:27:36.140 People will call to sign up for the school and she'll ask them out front, why do you

00:27:40.200 want to come to the school?

00:27:42.480 Well, I thought it'd be great, you know, to come out for a week and sit around the fire

00:27:46.500 with Dwayne and smoke cigars and just talk and pick his brain and, oh, you know, I'd

00:27:51.420 like to ride horses too.

00:27:52.400 And she's like, nope, we're not signing you up.

00:27:54.400 She really, she is my, and I say this in the best way possible.

00:27:58.680 She is the gatekeeper to Dwayne and she don't let many people through.

00:28:03.600 That's good.

00:28:04.360 You need, you need somebody like, even, even the posts, I made a couple of posts because

00:28:08.640 we've been doing stuff around the property.

00:28:10.280 Just posted a couple of pictures.

00:28:11.640 And I had a couple of guys that are like, oh man, if I could just come out and, you know,

00:28:16.320 cut cigars or pour water for you guys and just like listening to the conversation.

00:28:20.660 So I could definitely see how, especially with the reach that you have, how that would

00:28:24.960 get very daunting, very quickly.

00:28:27.380 Right.

00:28:27.760 Well, we're up here.

00:28:29.800 We don't have a sign out.

00:28:31.580 Our name is not on the mailbox.

00:28:33.760 The business address is to the, the business down below where the students stay.

00:28:38.860 We were, cause in Wyoming, we had people would just drive and just show up.

00:28:43.380 Did you really?

00:28:43.740 I want to meet Dwayne, you know, and, uh, and we're, we're out here.

00:28:49.640 Nobody gets this address, you know, unless it's a personal, here's the address.

00:28:54.220 This is what you plug in maps to get here.

00:28:56.700 But yeah, we, and I've really scaled back, you know, I've poked my head out the door on

00:29:03.920 this, this whole thing.

00:29:05.640 When I started the school, um, this whole public life and decided I didn't like it.

00:29:10.840 Now I'm like a turtle pulling my head back in the shell.

00:29:13.360 I'm like, that's not for me.

00:29:15.240 Why, why did you put yourself out there?

00:29:17.320 Because what I know of you now, and even some of the conversations that we've had this afternoon

00:29:20.660 about wanting to like the turtle, put his head back in a little bit.

00:29:24.800 Why, why did you begin to put that message out there?

00:29:27.620 Well, I don't know.

00:29:30.740 I think there was a number of different reasons.

00:29:33.340 I think I felt, I felt like I had not given my kids the dad that they should have had.

00:29:47.220 And it got to the point, I'm like, well, I can't go back and give it to my kids now, but

00:29:55.240 maybe I can help somebody else's kid.

00:29:58.320 You know, as, as, uh, as just kind of producing what I should have produced in the past.

00:30:09.820 You know, it's never too late to do what you should do.

00:30:13.640 Just sometimes the original audience moves on and, and you just got to find a new audience.

00:30:18.920 I guess something like, I didn't, I haven't really dove that deep into it, but, um, I,

00:30:27.280 I think it probably had a lot to do with that.

00:30:29.740 You know, the, the, everything that I should have given to my kids that I didn't give to

00:30:35.820 them, I'm like, well, I'm not going to just sit on it.

00:30:39.820 Um, but you know, I just, I don't know if you remember, I mean, I started out just the

00:30:44.600 horses and when I made that first advice video, I was reluctant to do it.

00:30:52.180 And my best friend and Deanna, you know, they encouraged me to do it.

00:30:56.480 So I did it.

00:30:57.800 And the response was just blew my mind.

00:31:01.840 And so that was part of it.

00:31:03.460 I mean, when I first did, you know, the first philosophical video, cigar video, you know,

00:31:10.420 people call it different things.

00:31:11.980 I, I wouldn't really, I was reluctant to do it and I didn't think it'd do anything, but

00:31:19.480 the response that I got kind of encouraged me, well, maybe this is something that's needed.

00:31:24.720 You know, maybe, maybe it's something I can do that I should have done years ago and I

00:31:31.220 didn't do, but maybe I can do it and help somebody else now.

00:31:34.060 So it's just kind of snowballed.

00:31:36.380 If there was, uh, if there was a lesson, because I imagine most of the people who listen to your

00:31:43.820 cigar videos, philosophical videos, they're probably young men.

00:31:47.480 A lot of them probably grew up without some sort of father figure or father role in their

00:31:53.100 life and look to you quite honestly, in some way to that.

00:31:57.060 What, what message, if you could only share one thing with them, it was your last message.

00:32:02.500 What would be the message you would want them to hear and adopt in their life?

00:32:06.820 Chill, just chill.

00:32:10.140 It really ain't that big a deal.

00:32:12.120 Well, you don't really have to do this and this, you don't really have to be this and

00:32:21.560 become this.

00:32:23.380 You don't have to, you're here.

00:32:26.080 Okay.

00:32:26.360 You're here one time.

00:32:27.860 It's you, it's your God and it's whoever God puts in your life.

00:32:34.500 And there's storms come up that you can't do anything about.

00:32:37.760 Well, don't gin up about them either.

00:32:39.380 Just chill.

00:32:40.600 All right.

00:32:40.940 Let the storm go over, fix what you can fix.

00:32:45.640 And, but just don't, just don't let life twist you up and gin you up and eat your guts

00:32:53.340 up.

00:32:54.900 I was in the hospital one time, buddy.

00:32:56.640 I'm telling you, my blood pressure was 250 over 200.

00:33:03.120 And that was seven or eight years ago.

00:33:07.500 I'm guessing it's absolutely insane to live your life in such a way that you get to that

00:33:16.960 point.

00:33:18.060 It's not necessary.

00:33:20.200 You don't need, you need to pay your bills.

00:33:23.980 You need to take care of the people, you know, that is yours to take care of.

00:33:28.260 But beyond that, there's a whole lot of stuff you don't need.

00:33:33.340 And just, just, yeah.

00:33:37.140 I had a young man in Texas.

00:33:38.800 I went out to eat with my best friend.

00:33:40.440 I was down there visiting him.

00:33:42.320 And some young people, there were a group of young people in the restaurant.

00:33:45.760 They recognized me from the channel and they come over and one young man said, could, could

00:33:50.940 you give me some advice?

00:33:53.140 And I said, yeah, just chill, live your life, work your job, be a good man, take care of

00:34:02.220 those who've been given to you to take care of and let everything else just roll off of

00:34:06.920 you.

00:34:07.100 It just ain't worth it.

00:34:09.620 That would be the number one advice I would give.

00:34:12.040 Gentlemen, I'm just going to take a break from the conversation very quickly.

00:34:17.380 This is an important conversation.

00:34:19.080 Just last week, we launched our first iteration of our program called Divorce Not Death.

00:34:24.700 It's an eight-week program.

00:34:25.980 And on that first call, we talked about what I dubbed the 10 commandments of divorce.

00:34:30.280 Now, I'm not going to share all of them with you here just for the sake of time, but

00:34:34.820 I will share a couple that stand out.

00:34:36.340 So one of them is your life is not over.

00:34:38.380 Uh, also you are not going to sabotage yourself.

00:34:42.860 And the other one I really wanted to share with you is that this is a game with the right

00:34:47.620 and wrong moves.

00:34:48.920 Now, if you missed the first week of this course, do not fret.

00:34:52.380 All the replays are available.

00:34:53.780 And also the brotherhood that we're building around this common hardship is it's really

00:34:58.400 second to none.

00:34:59.200 The types of conversations, the discussions, the resources that are being shared, um, the

00:35:06.220 hope that's being restored in a lot of ways during these difficult times is something that's

00:35:11.660 proven to be very, very valuable for a lot of guys.

00:35:14.060 And I want that to be valuable for you.

00:35:16.260 If you're going through a divorce or you already are divorced, or if you know somebody who's divorced

00:35:22.120 and they need to get on track, this is a great program for them.

00:35:26.920 So if you or them are looking for the roadmap and the tools to navigate one of the most difficult

00:35:33.820 times in your life, divorce, then look no further than divorce, not death.com.

00:35:39.780 That's divorce, not death.com guys get signed up for that or pass that along to somebody who

00:35:45.120 needs it.

00:35:45.560 It's for men going through divorce or are current or are already divorced.

00:35:49.560 Again, it's called divorce, not death.com.

00:35:51.580 Do that right after the conversation.

00:35:53.180 Let's go back to it with Dwayne.

00:35:56.780 It's so interesting because it's, it's, it's almost antithetical to what you hear on just

00:36:04.200 about every podcast.

00:36:05.380 And quite frankly, my podcast too.

00:36:07.160 Yeah.

00:36:07.560 But we, we have this hustle and grind culture where, you know, if you're not doing as good

00:36:14.640 as the next guy, then you're not doing what you could be doing and you're not reaching

00:36:17.700 your potential and you're not, uh, you know, helping the way that you can help in this world

00:36:22.760 or making your dent is something you have to hear.

00:36:28.120 Who's to say how much you should help?

00:36:31.520 Who's to say how much you're supposed to help?

00:36:33.740 Um, we have a lot of people in the world today that quote unquote need help, but they need

00:36:44.760 help because they won't help themselves, you know, and I'm sorry, but I'm not going to kill

00:36:51.800 myself anymore for you.

00:36:53.520 If you're not going to help yourself, I'll give you a hand up, but you got to climb, you

00:37:00.420 know, and I, in this, in this circle, what you do and what I do and what others do, there's

00:37:12.200 a, there's a whole lot of young men that they want the answer.

00:37:17.280 They don't want to dig for the answer.

00:37:19.180 They don't want to find the answer.

00:37:20.820 They want somebody to give them the answer and they want somebody to give them a way to

00:37:25.340 make a lot of money.

00:37:26.300 They want somebody to give them this and give them that.

00:37:31.020 And, and, uh, I think what's missing, I think one of the things that's missing in this, this

00:37:37.820 whole thing is we got a lot of guys telling people, this is how you can get more.

00:37:43.400 Um, but I think there needs to be more advice out there.

00:37:48.620 This is how you can need less.

00:37:50.160 Um, you know, we're, we're feeding the needy.

00:37:56.560 I need more money.

00:37:58.040 I need more success with girls.

00:38:00.400 I need more recognition.

00:38:03.000 I need more stroking.

00:38:04.500 I need more of this.

00:38:05.980 And so then there's people who are gladly, you know, for $30 a month, you know, I'll tell

00:38:11.520 you, I'll tell you what you need to do to get more.

00:38:13.660 And I think there's not enough wise heads out there saying, Hey, this is how you don't

00:38:20.080 need so much.

00:38:21.780 This is how you just, you don't need so much, uh, become comfortable with yourself and you

00:38:26.360 don't need somebody else, somebody else's approbation.

00:38:29.640 You don't need to be stroked.

00:38:32.360 You don't need all those likes on your Instagram.

00:38:34.520 You don't need it.

00:38:35.920 You know, become a good man that you recognize as a good man and learn to be satisfied with

00:38:41.420 that.

00:38:41.640 If I like me, if I respect me, I don't need your liking respect, you know, and, uh, and

00:38:52.900 money, you don't need, you don't need a bigger house.

00:38:58.760 Now I get people come all the time and they answer these, well, I can't hardly pay my bills

00:39:03.980 and, you know, I can't hardly buy groceries and, but I'm not dumb.

00:39:09.040 Um, I know a lot of these people have car payments that they shouldn't have taken on.

00:39:14.080 I know they're paying for cable or satellite TV that they don't need.

00:39:19.700 You know, I know they have an Xbox and they have a membership to Xbox.

00:39:23.400 They pay so much a month or PlayStation or whatever the, whatever the newest thing is.

00:39:27.880 They don't need that.

00:39:28.700 I know they get the newest iPhone when it comes out thousand dollars for a stupid phone.

00:39:38.560 So even at that people who can't pay their bills a lot of times, not everybody, but a

00:39:44.820 lot of times it's because they, they need this and they need that.

00:39:47.900 And, uh, and so I'm not as sympathetic about that.

00:40:01.140 Um, because, you know, I raised a wife and seven kids and we were poor, but we were never

00:40:08.240 hungry and the rent was paid and the bills were paid and what needed to be done was done.

00:40:13.520 Um, and, uh, you know, and I still do it today.

00:40:18.700 I don't, I don't have the money people think I have.

00:40:21.460 People are crazy.

00:40:22.540 I don't, you know, but we do what we need to do.

00:40:28.420 And, and I, we still say, no, we don't need that.

00:40:31.800 We don't need that.

00:40:33.460 We'll go do this.

00:40:34.580 We'll do that.

00:40:35.220 Um, and so it's just, we don't need it.

00:40:38.280 Um, and I think that's a big part of what's missing today in, in this culture of male

00:40:47.320 counseling.

00:40:50.040 How do you, how did, how does your guys' filter work for what you need and what you don't

00:40:55.600 need?

00:40:56.620 Because there are things that you purchase, right?

00:40:58.400 Obviously we all have, we all are consumers in some way.

00:41:01.400 So what kind of litmus test or filtering do you personally run that through to say, yes,

00:41:06.860 that's a wise purchase.

00:41:07.960 We'll do that.

00:41:08.520 No, that's not a wise purchase.

00:41:09.860 We're not going to do that.

00:41:10.660 Well, start out.

00:41:11.400 If you're a young person, just starting out, I told some young guys this last week, start

00:41:16.640 out with the rule of threes.

00:41:19.100 Okay.

00:41:20.360 Um, you can survive for three minutes without air.

00:41:26.580 If you're in inclement weather, blizzard, a hundred degrees in the desert, you can survive

00:41:31.400 three hours without shelter.

00:41:33.660 You can survive three days without water.

00:41:36.460 You can survive three weeks without food.

00:41:39.680 So learn to prioritize, you know, we, uh, it's like, well, can we breathe?

00:41:47.460 Yeah.

00:41:48.760 All right.

00:41:49.100 There's a storm coming in.

00:41:50.580 Do we have shelter?

00:41:51.940 Yeah.

00:41:53.440 Um, do we have water?

00:41:57.360 Yeah.

00:41:57.840 Do we have a means of getting more water if we need it?

00:42:00.520 Yeah.

00:42:02.360 Then we move down.

00:42:03.620 What about food?

00:42:04.400 Yeah, we have food.

00:42:06.780 Do, do we have, you know, a freezer full of, um, rib eyes in New York?

00:42:13.100 No.

00:42:14.600 Do we have food?

00:42:15.960 Yeah, we have food.

00:42:17.860 Okay.

00:42:18.440 We, we have, so it's, it's, do we need it?

00:42:20.760 If, if everything that we need placed in priority is taken care of, that's first.

00:42:31.640 And then we start sorting things out from there.

00:42:35.300 Um, we've got for the school, you know, I have, we have seven horses.

00:42:39.140 Do they have feed?

00:42:40.400 Yeah, they have feed.

00:42:41.820 You know, do they have what they need?

00:42:44.140 Yeah, they do.

00:42:44.800 And, you know, it just goes from there.

00:42:49.200 It is amazing how, I think one of the hardest things to, it's probably not one of the hardest

00:42:57.180 things, but a challenge, we'll call it a challenge, is that we're constantly inundated with the

00:43:02.940 latest and greatest, the new and the best, right?

00:43:04.860 The iPhone.

00:43:05.620 It doesn't, it doesn't really do anything different.

00:43:08.720 It just takes pictures just, you know, a fraction of a percent better.

00:43:12.400 And so everybody's going to stand in line and spend thousands of dollars to get it.

00:43:16.780 Um, or vehicles, you know, I've got a, uh, 2015 GMC three quarter tons.

00:43:23.260 Right.

00:43:24.540 And, you know, I see, I'm like, this is a great truck.

00:43:27.700 It runs good.

00:43:28.380 It's got a few dents and things like that, but it's a great truck.

00:43:30.820 The inside probably stand to be cleaned out a little better, but that's, that's about

00:43:34.620 it.

00:43:34.860 That's about all that's wrong with it.

00:43:36.260 Right.

00:43:36.800 And even still, even though I'm very conscious about what I spend my money on, even still,

00:43:41.540 I see that new GMC, you know, pulling up at the stoplight and I'm like, Hmm, that looks

00:43:47.180 pretty good.

00:43:47.760 I kind of want a new truck.

00:43:48.940 I don't need one, but I kind of want one.

00:43:50.680 Resisting that temptation can be a challenge.

00:43:52.500 Well, it can.

00:43:53.600 Um, and for me, you know, I've got a nice truck.

00:43:55.920 It's a 2020.

00:43:57.220 I had, all my bills were paid.

00:43:59.880 Everything, everything was there and we'd hit a pretty good look at, lick at something.

00:44:04.260 And there was some money in the bank and, uh, I blew the engine up in another truck and

00:44:11.060 I'm like, you know what?

00:44:12.520 I need a truck and I need a nice truck because we've got all the students coming in and pulling.

00:44:17.920 So I went and got a nice truck, but I went through my list of priorities.

00:44:21.980 And when I got down to here, everything that was of a higher priority than that had been

00:44:28.080 taken care of.

00:44:29.580 So I said, okay, no bank note, no loan.

00:44:33.180 This is a one time we hit a good lick on something.

00:44:37.600 And, uh, so we did it, you know, and, but yeah, I mean, for me, it saddles, you know, horses.

00:44:46.980 I see quite a few of them, right?

00:44:48.360 Yeah.

00:44:49.060 Um, you know, that's my deal.

00:44:51.420 That's, um, horses, you know, I was kind of looking at that horse came up the other day

00:44:56.840 and, and, uh, I'm like, no, I don't need a horse.

00:45:04.800 And I didn't buy the horse.

00:45:05.980 I was like, I need to spend the money on this.

00:45:08.060 I need to get this paid off.

00:45:09.280 I got this bill coming up.

00:45:10.620 I need it paid off.

00:45:12.100 And so I didn't, you know, I didn't buy the horse.

00:45:14.720 I didn't buy the saddle.

00:45:15.620 I didn't, and, you know, it's just, it's just honest and you got to be honest with

00:45:21.560 your priorities.

00:45:22.300 A lot of people, you know, they prioritize things and they don't do it very honestly.

00:45:26.520 Um, but understand the difference between a want and a need.

00:45:30.220 Yeah, exactly.

00:45:31.240 Yeah, exactly.

00:45:32.100 Well, and be honest about that.

00:45:33.880 It's okay to want things.

00:45:35.780 If the priorities prior to that are taken care of, then sure.

00:45:41.300 Have your want.

00:45:42.180 Right.

00:45:43.060 Within reason.

00:45:43.660 Within reason, because that want, depending on what it is, that want will have to be maintained.

00:45:49.700 You know, there are very few things out there that are just one-time purchases.

00:45:53.160 I bought this truck and I could afford the truck, but I did not realize that that truck

00:45:59.480 had this much higher level of maintenance costs, you know, to maintain it.

00:46:06.680 And it's, you know, we, I was well within bounds to do that.

00:46:12.000 I'm like, oh, I didn't see that coming.

00:46:13.540 I'm glad I didn't take every tiny last everything and pull it together and do that because, um,

00:46:21.140 because then I'd have the truck sitting there, but I wouldn't have the money to keep it maintained,

00:46:25.520 you know, and keep it running and keep it nice.

00:46:28.320 And so, um, yeah, be, you got to be honest.

00:46:31.620 And that's what it comes down to a lot of people.

00:46:34.420 It's, it's, I would never be dishonest to you.

00:46:38.580 And a lot of people, they would never be dishonest to you, but they don't guard their honesty to

00:46:43.680 themselves quite, quite so stringently.

00:46:45.880 Uh, and we got to be honest with ourselves.

00:46:49.320 Why do you think that people would be more honest with others and less honest with themselves?

00:46:57.480 Well, I think there's a number of reasons.

00:47:00.300 Uh, for one thing, I don't think that it's obvious if I'm dishonest to you, that's obvious to you,

00:47:06.140 to me, to everybody.

00:47:08.100 Okay.

00:47:08.720 But if I'm not honest with myself, how many people are going to see that?

00:47:13.520 You know, there's not as much immediate blatant for everybody.

00:47:19.160 That dude, that dude's not, he's dishonest.

00:47:21.000 His words, no good.

00:47:22.560 You know, so it's not as evident.

00:47:25.780 It's not as evident upfront, openly and outwardly when we're dishonest with ourself.

00:47:32.940 Um, it's a lot easier to get away with it.

00:47:36.340 And it's, it's a way of us getting something we want that we really shouldn't, shouldn't have at that time.

00:47:43.520 A lot of, uh, rational, rationalization and justification.

00:47:48.380 I've always thought to, you know, yourself better than anybody else, which means you know how to deceive yourself better than anybody else.

00:47:55.920 That's exactly right.

00:47:57.480 Yeah, that is exactly right.

00:47:59.900 It's the easiest person in the world to lie to is yourself.

00:48:03.740 Yeah.

00:48:07.640 How do you, I want to go back to something you said, uh, and this is something that I personally struggled with.

00:48:12.900 I'm sure you have as well in your life.

00:48:14.260 And I know any man who's listening has, and I can't remember the exact terminology used, but you said you were talking about liking yourself, believing in yourself, being able to validate yourself.

00:48:24.580 How does a man who has never felt that way about himself, you know, he's been beat up, he's been beat on, he's down on his luck, he's made bad decisions.

00:48:35.840 How does a guy like that begin to believe in himself and be happy with who he is?

00:48:41.080 So he doesn't need it from others.

00:48:42.020 Well, I think one of the first things a man has to do is he has to separate others' opinion of him from his opinion of himself.

00:48:54.000 That's the first thing you got to do.

00:48:55.500 You got to be able to separate.

00:48:57.680 Your opinion of me does not necessarily have to be my opinion of me.

00:49:02.260 That's your opinion.

00:49:03.440 That's not my opinion.

00:49:04.440 And I think the first thing that a lot of people who are really hard on themselves, they're hard on themselves based on how hard other people are on them.

00:49:18.240 And I think the first thing you need to do is separate out your opinion of yourself from somebody else's opinion of you.

00:49:25.980 I think the second thing you need to do when you do that is when you separate out your opinion of yourself, you got to be honest with yourself.

00:49:36.400 That's where that honesty comes in.

00:49:38.860 If you've got a big hole in your character, look at it square in the face.

00:49:43.920 Admit it to yourself and say, this is a weakness.

00:49:48.960 This is bad.

00:49:51.040 You know, this is an area where I'm not doing well.

00:49:53.620 This is an area that I don't like, and I keep doing it, and I don't like it.

00:50:01.080 Therefore, I don't like me.

00:50:03.200 And that's how we approach other people.

00:50:05.520 You know, other people, they have a, I mean, you know, let's do something kind of shallow, okay?

00:50:12.120 They talk too much.

00:50:14.300 You know, they talk all the time.

00:50:15.640 I'm doing something shallow and not.

00:50:17.140 And after a while, we don't like to be around them because they just never hush, okay?

00:50:25.000 So it is their behavior.

00:50:27.780 It is a particular characteristic that they have.

00:50:31.980 It is something that they are doing that causes our dislike of them.

00:50:38.280 Makes sense, okay?

00:50:39.680 Okay, well, what's the difference with us?

00:50:44.280 The difference, there is no difference if we see something in ourself that we are constantly doing.

00:50:50.200 We are a person who is constantly doing something that we don't like.

00:50:54.020 Therefore, we don't like us.

00:50:55.300 And you'll never sort that out if you don't spend time in silence.

00:51:09.260 You got to go somewhere on a regular basis where it's just you and you.

00:51:17.220 Not you and some other person, not you and the dang phone, not you and Instagram, not you.

00:51:26.160 It's just you and you.

00:51:28.800 And you sit there and you honestly look at you.

00:51:34.680 And you start figuring out, oh, man, this is the kind of man I am.

00:51:40.060 This is what I've been doing.

00:51:41.400 I don't like this.

00:51:42.380 All this time, I haven't liked me and I didn't really know why I didn't like me

00:51:47.800 because I never stopped to look at what I was doing that I didn't like.

00:51:51.060 And I have to face it and I got to admit, I'm doing this and I don't like it.

00:51:58.120 And this is a major reason why I don't like myself.

00:52:00.460 But if you never get to where there's no interruption and it's just you visiting with you,

00:52:06.560 you never get to know you.

00:52:07.980 And so all you have are these surface irritations that you never face and never deal with

00:52:15.380 because it's just there's so much other noise, so much other motion, so much everything else

00:52:21.000 going on that this is an irritation over here.

00:52:27.060 But you haven't really sat down and sorted it out.

00:52:29.840 Oh, that's me being irritated at me because I'm the one doing that.

00:52:35.620 And I wouldn't like that characteristic.

00:52:39.120 I wouldn't like that trait in somebody else.

00:52:43.200 But I didn't realize.

00:52:45.500 And it doesn't have to be something so blatantly obnoxious as someone talking to them.

00:52:51.300 It could be weakness.

00:52:52.200 You know, until a person sits down by themself in silence.

00:52:58.700 And I don't mean for three minutes.

00:53:00.640 I mean, spends time in silence, you know, before they come to face the fact, I don't like me

00:53:07.960 because I'm a weak man.

00:53:10.120 Everybody walks all over me.

00:53:11.820 And I just let them do it in the name of, and I do it in the name of niceness or being good or keeping the peace.

00:53:21.660 But the truth is, I'm just, I'm a weak man.

00:53:24.940 And that's what I don't like about myself.

00:53:27.860 And it's not something blatantly in your face, obnoxious, but it's a character trait.

00:53:33.860 And so, you know, you've got to sort those things out.

00:53:40.200 How do you, in your line of work, and you're spot on with the level of weakness,

00:53:46.440 the nice guy syndrome, as you often hear it referred to as,

00:53:50.600 I'm sure that of all the clients that you have come out with your school,

00:53:54.720 you run into that all the time, probably where these individuals might be scared of the horse

00:53:59.360 or overly passive with the horse, where there's no level of assertiveness or communication,

00:54:06.520 even if it's nonverbal, with what you want the horse to do.

00:54:09.120 Right.

00:54:09.360 How do you train a person like that, who has that ingrained into them from years of it being taught

00:54:17.900 and years of them reinforcing those teachings, to become more assertive about their wills and wishes?

00:54:25.920 Yeah.

00:54:26.440 I don't train it, I don't train it into them.

00:54:29.580 I can't train it into them.

00:54:31.160 I point out the weakness.

00:54:33.340 I point it out, and I'm like, look, this is what your problem is.

00:54:38.320 Now, I can't fix it for you.

00:54:39.880 I can't ride that horse for you.

00:54:42.580 Okay, but this is why you're not getting along with that horse,

00:54:45.160 because this is how you're approaching it.

00:54:50.520 And it's not going to work.

00:54:51.540 So if you want to ride horses, you have to settle it with yourself that you're going to fix this problem.

00:55:01.740 Now, I help them through it.

00:55:03.900 You know, I tell them, I'm like, look, that horse is 1,000 pounds, and you're 130 pounds,

00:55:10.560 but you're a predator, and they're a prey.

00:55:13.880 You eat meat, and they are meat.

00:55:16.440 And if we were suddenly decide, and I know this is overboard, but, you know, sometimes to get people to understand,

00:55:22.780 I'm like, if we, and I've told, I said, look, if I decide, it's my choice.

00:55:27.300 If I decide, that horse will be on the barbecue grill tonight if I want to do that.

00:55:31.560 Why?

00:55:31.700 Because I am the top of the food chain.

00:55:35.580 We ride the horse.

00:55:37.220 The horse doesn't ride us.

00:55:40.760 Okay?

00:55:41.340 And the horse, by instinct, by instinct, is an animal that is meat.

00:55:47.360 That's their instinct.

00:55:49.460 That is the instinct that we harness that makes us able to do what we do.

00:55:55.600 And so I point this out, and I encourage them, and I help them, but the choice has to be theirs.

00:55:59.420 I can't train it out of them.

00:56:01.700 I can make them aware of it, and I can help walk them through with it if they want to go through it.

00:56:07.000 If they don't, there's nothing I can do.

00:56:10.320 I imagine that, I don't like oversimplifying it this way, but I think most people are understanding what I'm trying to get across here,

00:56:19.720 that whether it's horses or children, there's probably, I know nothing about horses, so you tell me if I'm way off base here.

00:56:26.000 But there's probably some, a horse has to trust you, right?

00:56:31.880 And there has to be some sort of characteristics in you if you're to overcome the natural fact that they are prey and we are predators.

00:56:41.140 There has to be some connection through trust.

00:56:44.460 What is it that a horse feels, and what is it that a human feels, if it's different?

00:56:52.820 Oh, it's definitely different.

00:56:54.660 Okay.

00:56:57.480 Let me see if I can...

00:56:58.460 And there are horse people who would see this different, would disagree with me on this, okay?

00:57:07.460 But I found this to be the most basic foundational way to get this thought across for people to understand.

00:57:16.420 Your horse doesn't want to be alpha, okay?

00:57:19.320 Your horse don't want to be boss.

00:57:20.600 Now, people say, Dwayne, I beg to differ.

00:57:24.020 My horse is very pushy.

00:57:25.380 My horse very much pushes me around and wants to be boss.

00:57:28.620 No.

00:57:29.860 Your horse wants there to be a boss.

00:57:32.280 There's a huge difference.

00:57:34.080 Your horse, by instinct, is a herd animal, and there's always, there's a pecking order in the herd.

00:57:40.380 And they will very, a lot of times, very physically, very loudly shake out that pecking order because they have to know, okay, who's at the top of the food chain here for their security?

00:57:54.520 Because if something all of a sudden comes roaring in, they need to know who everybody follows.

00:58:01.180 Otherwise, they scatter.

00:58:02.200 And as they scatter, then they're easy prey, easy pickings if they stay together.

00:58:06.880 But they're not going to stay together if there's not a leader and everybody knows this is who we follow, okay?

00:58:13.420 So when your horse tests you, I believe, okay, and this is how I approach it, your horse is not necessarily wanting to be boss.

00:58:24.160 He's just not convinced that you're up to the job.

00:58:30.060 So he'll step in and do it.

00:58:32.200 And so when you show a horse, no, I am, I am the alpha here.

00:58:39.560 Now, there's people grinding their teeth right now.

00:58:42.940 I'll go to that in a minute, okay?

00:58:44.700 But you show the horse, no, it's, well, people say, how do you show the horse that?

00:58:50.640 You just move their feet.

00:58:52.940 A horse's life, the key to the horse's mind is in their feet, not their mouth.

00:58:57.980 It's in their feet.

00:59:00.820 Because a horse's life is in their feet.

00:59:03.060 It's their feet is how they run away.

00:59:04.620 It's how they escape.

00:59:05.520 It's how they kick.

00:59:06.220 So whoever's controlling the horse's feet controls the horse.

00:59:10.680 So you go out there and you calmly, very calmly, very easily move that horse's feet and control that horse's feet.

00:59:17.540 And if you do it wisely and do it properly, after a while, the horse says, instinctively, not reason and logic, but the horse says, he's controlling my feet.

00:59:30.040 Therefore, he's controlling my life.

00:59:33.240 Therefore, he's my alpha.

00:59:34.440 And therefore, I can follow him.

00:59:40.100 And so it's showing them that I am the alpha.

00:59:49.160 And a lot of people have problems with that term, but somebody's always got problems with something.

00:59:53.480 Pick another term and they'll have a problem with that.

00:59:55.660 They will.

00:59:56.160 It is what it is.

00:59:56.900 I am the alpha, but I'm a benevolent alpha.

01:00:00.620 But you can trust me.

01:00:02.360 I will never ask you to do something that's going to get you in trouble.

01:00:06.300 Okay?

01:00:06.940 And every time I ask you to do something, if you'll do it, the results are going to be easier than when you try to do it your own way.

01:00:15.320 So what I am is I am your place of peace.

01:00:19.180 I am your Shangri-La.

01:00:20.900 I am the place when you need peace, when you need comfort, when you need rest, you come find me.

01:00:28.240 And when you stand there, you know, this is your nirvana right here with me.

01:00:38.320 And it transfers to everything.

01:00:41.940 I've said this before.

01:00:43.500 You know, we raise seven children.

01:00:45.460 And you take a child, they get up about six years old and they start pushing the boundaries.

01:00:49.500 They won't behave.

01:00:50.900 And most people really misunderstand what's going on.

01:00:55.180 I did.

01:00:56.120 I misunderstood as a father when my kids were growing up.

01:00:58.960 You think they're being rebellious.

01:01:01.380 They're trying to do this.

01:01:02.540 They're trying to do it.

01:01:03.240 No, they're not.

01:01:04.780 No, they're not.

01:01:06.940 They need to know where the boundaries are.

01:01:10.020 And they're looking for those boundaries.

01:01:12.360 Why are they looking for those boundaries?

01:01:14.040 Because instinctively, that child is saying, Daddy is the strongest, biggest, most powerful being in my universe as a six-year-old.

01:01:24.360 Daddy sets boundaries, but he cannot police those boundaries.

01:01:31.040 He can't guard those boundaries.

01:01:33.360 With me, and I'm six years old.

01:01:35.440 So if he is not powerful enough to police those boundaries with me, he's not powerful enough to police those boundaries from someone much larger who would cross that boundary to come hurt me.

01:01:51.160 They're looking for security.

01:01:52.280 They want dad, they want mom to step up and say, I'm enforcing this boundary, and I'm your parent.

01:02:03.380 You're not crossing that boundary, and if you do, there will be repercussions, okay?

01:02:09.340 And we're going to do it.

01:02:11.700 Well, then that's how you wind up with peaceful, secure children, because they know they have the person that is their head is actually their head.

01:02:24.220 And if that person can enforce the boundaries with them, to them, the way they think, he can enforce them boundaries to someone from the outside who might would come in and do them harm.

01:02:36.700 So it provides them security.

01:02:38.400 That's how you get a secure horse.

01:02:39.780 A secure horse is a horse that knows that the person who is their head has set boundaries and will enforce those boundaries.

01:02:52.780 And then they become a very calm, very secure horse.

01:02:56.780 One of the differences I see is that I can see that with a six-year-old child or a 16-year-old child.

01:03:04.140 At some point, you know, I've got four children.

01:03:07.640 Right.

01:03:07.920 You have seven.

01:03:08.360 We want our children to be – we want them to have autonomy, and we want them to become the head of their own life, their family and their own life.

01:03:19.780 So how do you enforce those boundaries but still teach them what it's like to then eventually go out on their own?

01:03:28.440 Because I think that's different with a horse.

01:03:30.620 You never want that horse, I imagine, to be completely sovereign or it will begin to ride you and the other way around.

01:03:35.600 Right, right, right.

01:03:38.020 Well, you don't want a child to be sovereign as long as they're a child.

01:03:42.860 You don't give sovereignty to a child as long as that child is still a child.

01:03:48.360 You teach them, and you teach them good character.

01:03:51.460 And you teach them responsible ethics, like being responsible with finances, being responsible of taking care of your chores, being responsible of fulfilling your responsibilities, being responsible as a member of society.

01:04:09.960 And you teach them that.

01:04:12.260 And then when they're old enough to go on their own, they already have all the tools in their toolbox to do it.

01:04:18.500 I mean, how much does a human being need when they leave home at 18, 19, 20, 21, whatever?

01:04:25.380 How much do they need to successfully be autonomous?

01:04:30.160 You need to know how to cook a hot dog and some mac and cheese and run their basic finances, I think.

01:04:35.700 So, and how to show up on time.

01:04:39.260 Sure.

01:04:39.960 Okay.

01:04:40.320 Be respectful.

01:04:41.100 To be respectful, to be courteous, you know, to be the decent human being, you know.

01:04:47.160 Well, you can teach all that to a child without ever giving up your autonomy as a parent.

01:04:52.740 I think the concept that you're expressing here is right and good.

01:05:02.300 I think the mistake that is often made is people rush that, and they give that autonomy too soon to the child, and the child is not ready.

01:05:13.000 The child has not learned all the lessons that the child needs to lesson.

01:05:15.840 And so before they get a full grasp of the price of responsibility, they get too big a taste of freedom, and the freedom tastes sweeter than the price of responsibility.

01:05:29.060 And so they'll jettison this one and go get this one because the freedom, too much freedom was given to them too soon, and not enough lessons on the price of responsibility has been instilled in them at this point.

01:05:45.840 So, in the horse world, if you have a stud colt, it's a stallion, he's not being cut, he's not being gelded.

01:05:56.560 I had an old cowboy teach me this years ago.

01:05:59.120 He said, look, if you're going to keep a stud, and you're going to ride him, but you're also going to breed him, which is something that only the top, okay, normal person on the street, I never recommend that.

01:06:12.720 Normally just a stud horse or a riding horse.

01:06:15.460 Yes, okay.

01:06:17.600 But if you're going to do that, he told me, he said, the first thing you teach that horse is his first priority for the rest of his life.

01:06:25.120 If you intend to ride that horse, train him to ride first and get him well-versed, under saddle.

01:06:33.000 Be able to ride him solid, he's well in hand, and then breed him to the first mare.

01:06:39.120 If you breed him to a mare as a two-year-old, and then you try to break him to ride, you might get him trained to ride, but that's never going to be his number one first priority.

01:06:51.980 And so I think raising children, we give them that freedom before we give them that heavy sense of responsibility, and they always go for this first.

01:07:06.220 This was always sweeter.

01:07:07.240 And I think that's where we, a lot of times, I think that's where we mess up.

01:07:12.620 Teach them and get them ready for autonomy before you give them the autonomy.

01:07:18.660 With a horse like that, would it just be rebellious for the rest of its life or be stubborn, wouldn't want you on its back?

01:07:25.800 How would that manifest?

01:07:27.580 Hormones.

01:07:28.960 It's juices.

01:07:30.840 They lose their mind.

01:07:32.680 Sure.

01:07:33.180 Just like men do.

01:07:34.500 Yeah.

01:07:34.800 Their body, their hormones tell them that this is what I'm built for.

01:07:41.120 This is what I was created for.

01:07:43.360 This was the number one thing in my life.

01:07:46.680 And so their instinct and everything will take over, and they will fight to do that.

01:07:52.440 But I know of people that's been on trail rides where there's been, and I won't go on it.

01:07:59.520 I will not go on a trail ride with somebody who's riding a stud.

01:08:02.560 I won't do it.

01:08:04.400 I'll load my horse right back on the trail, and I'll just go back home.

01:08:07.420 I won't do it.

01:08:09.180 I've known of trail rides where a rider on a stallion, and that stallion has bred a mare on the trail with a rider on its back.

01:08:17.680 Now, you tell me if that's not the perfect analogy that we have of a lot of teenagers today.

01:08:24.660 I mean, it's exactly what's happening.

01:08:27.060 And grown men.

01:08:28.340 Yeah, grown, not just teenagers.

01:08:29.880 I'm not picking on.

01:08:30.840 But there's 30-year-olds out there that have the mind and the instinct and the responsibility of a 13-year-old.

01:08:38.080 They got big in years only, but they were never taught.

01:08:42.160 And they were given autonomy before they were given responsibility, and the two are not the same.

01:08:49.880 Yeah, because look at how many men who measure their sense of manliness on their sexual conquest or purely how much power or money they have or physical acumen.

01:09:02.600 And there's nothing wrong with some of those things, but if it's at the expense of deeper, more purposeful living, it's an issue.

01:09:13.220 Well, there's this thing in horsemanship called lunging.

01:09:20.620 I do it totally different than most people do, okay?

01:09:24.100 I try to do everything 99% of the time at a walk.

01:09:29.540 People go out there with a long 30-foot lead rope and a flag, and they get the horse trotting and running and galloping around it.

01:09:36.760 And I tell them, I'm like, look, my dog can make a horse run.

01:09:42.420 That plastic bag blowing across the yard in the wind can make a horse run.

01:09:46.740 It don't take a horseman to make a horse run.

01:09:49.080 It takes a horseman to step into a round pen with a running horse and calmly get it to slow down and calm down.

01:09:57.980 My dog can make a horse run, okay?

01:10:00.880 My dog can breed every female dog that comes through in heat.

01:10:04.560 That don't take a man.

01:10:05.560 My dog can do that.

01:10:08.400 You take a stud colt, you take a hog, you take anything you want out there, and they can breed everything coming and going.

01:10:15.220 That don't take a man.

01:10:16.760 That is not a sign of manhood.

01:10:20.060 Totally different.

01:10:22.660 Totally different.

01:10:27.280 By nature, the lowest of the low can make the highest of the high move off.

01:10:36.600 But it's something else to take the highest of the high that's moving off and bring it under control and bring it down and settle down to say no.

01:10:49.360 Okay, we got that puppy out there, and if a female dog in heat comes through, that dog, he can't say no.

01:10:57.140 He's old enough.

01:10:58.540 His juices, he can't say no.

01:11:00.500 He can't make a moral choice.

01:11:02.760 And it's not morals with him, but I'm just saying he's not going to tell his instinct.

01:11:08.120 He's not going to physically tell his body.

01:11:11.180 No, that's not the wise thing to do at this time.

01:11:14.920 So, yeah, this nonsense, this absolute, and it's not our modern society anymore than it's been mankind all of history.

01:11:26.120 You know, that's not manhood.

01:11:30.080 That's just not manhood.

01:11:32.840 The ability to say no.

01:11:35.540 The ability to discern between what's going to hurt somebody else, what's going to hurt me, what's going to weaken me, what's going to weaken somebody else,

01:11:46.260 what is going to cross God, moral balance, I mean, there's a thousand things.

01:11:54.900 A man is one who is standing with wisdom and look at that and say, no.

01:12:02.620 No.

01:12:04.540 Breeding is not manhood.

01:12:06.880 And so, again, the children are not taught wisdom and responsibility before they're given autonomy.

01:12:18.400 And they're just a bunch of dogs in heat today out there.

01:12:24.760 It's such a good analogy because, well, and one thing I often see, and I don't know if there's a rise in this anymore,

01:12:31.440 but it's a reversal of roles between parent and child.

01:12:36.880 Where the parent becomes the child by asking the child what they should do,

01:12:42.780 expecting the child can lead properly at 6 years old, 8 years old, 12 years old.

01:12:47.780 And then we'll have the audacity to ask, oh, kids these days.

01:12:52.360 Why are kids like that these days?

01:12:54.380 Well, it's because you're letting them run rampant without giving them any guidance, instruction, and insight

01:12:59.280 into how they ought to be doing things, the ordered way of doing things.

01:13:02.960 I've said this before.

01:13:04.120 Remember, if a man doesn't have the backbone to be the bad guy, he's got no business being a dad or a husband.

01:13:12.600 If he doesn't have the courage and the backbone to stand up and say, I said no, and enforce it,

01:13:21.760 he shouldn't have kids.

01:13:23.200 He shouldn't have a wife.

01:13:24.360 Bottom line, we have a bunch of weak cowards running families, running this country, running everything today.

01:13:37.160 And it just comes down to weakness and cowardice.

01:13:40.340 People are afraid to be the bad guy.

01:13:41.980 The men in this country have been beat up for so many years, throwing this toxic masculinity words around and everything.

01:13:51.280 That men are cowards.

01:13:53.000 And they're cowering down, and they're afraid to stand up and be a man because somebody might call them toxic.

01:13:57.860 Well, first off, just like everything else today, you can make up your own definition of toxic.

01:14:08.500 But I'll tell you this, according to my definition of toxic, you have no idea how toxic I can be until you cross me in such a way that it puts my children, my wife, my family in danger.

01:14:26.120 You have no level.

01:14:27.320 You have no idea the level of toxicity I can produce.

01:14:31.460 And my children figured out that if they wanted to do something, and Dad determined that is not healthy, that is not good, that is not right for the family.

01:14:43.600 And I stood up and said, no, I understand.

01:14:47.220 I know all your friends are going.

01:14:48.880 I know all this is happening, but you're not doing it.

01:14:52.160 They figured out that Dad had a deep, deep well of toxicity he could draw from.

01:14:57.500 And I will draw from it, and I will elevate things to as big a level as I need to elevate it to protect you from what?

01:15:05.120 From yourself.

01:15:07.160 I will protect you from yourself, whatever the price.

01:15:12.080 I will protect my family from itself.

01:15:17.840 And everybody can hate me at that time for it.

01:15:21.420 I don't care.

01:15:24.100 I don't care.

01:15:25.020 And there's not enough of that out there.

01:15:29.420 And I'm going to catch a lot of grief for that, but that's okay, because I don't care.

01:15:36.740 I, in our society today, my wife and I have raised seven children.

01:15:42.140 Seven good adults.

01:15:46.980 Good, happy, secure, moral, financially comfortable to varying levels.

01:15:56.300 Well-respected, well-thought-of adults.

01:16:00.220 Members of society that are respected.

01:16:03.380 Seven.

01:16:05.580 And so, you know, the proof's in the pudding.

01:16:10.560 And did I do everything right?

01:16:12.500 No.

01:16:12.960 Was I always as balanced as I ought to be?

01:16:15.440 No.

01:16:16.940 But in the end, did I win?

01:16:18.780 Yeah, I did.

01:16:20.780 Do some of my kids hold a little bit of regret and resentment against me?

01:16:24.480 I think so.

01:16:28.900 But I look at their life, and I'm like, it was worth it.

01:16:31.420 I can take it.

01:16:32.160 I look at you, and I look at your spouse, and I look at your children, and I look at your job, and I look at all that you have built, and all that you have become, and I look at your standing in society, and I look at the respect that those around you have for you.

01:16:51.700 And it's like, okay, I can take it.

01:16:58.540 It doesn't mean I'm not without regret.

01:17:00.940 It doesn't mean there's not certain things I could have done better.

01:17:03.360 But in the end, I was the bad guy, and I won.

01:17:11.080 And why in the world would anyone want to be a father or a husband, a head of a family, if it doesn't mean any more to them than being willing to go to that, to pay that price?

01:17:25.860 How does the concept of benevolent alpha, which I like that term, that's a good term.

01:17:36.080 I stole that from Rush Limbaugh.

01:17:38.460 Oh, is that right?

01:17:39.120 Okay.

01:17:39.540 Benevolent dictator.

01:17:40.840 Yeah, I've heard the dictator portion of it.

01:17:42.900 Yeah.

01:17:44.180 How does that concept apply to leading your wife?

01:17:49.500 Because you've been married for, what, 35?

01:17:51.480 35.

01:17:52.440 34 years.

01:17:53.080 34 years.

01:17:53.740 How does that concept apply to your relationship and with your wife?

01:18:02.140 What you say is important.

01:18:04.640 How you say it is just as important.

01:18:08.680 Now things are better than they've ever been.

01:18:13.120 Because I can stand up and say, no, we're not going to do that.

01:18:16.780 But I can do it in a much, much more palatable manner.

01:18:25.740 And it's what makes a huge difference.

01:18:31.440 And I'm more relaxed these days.

01:18:36.320 When I became a father, I was terrified.

01:18:42.420 I was terrified of the world that I lived in.

01:18:45.000 I was terrified of all the people around me who had lost their children.

01:18:50.360 The kids that I grew up with, and they wound up on drugs, or pregnant at 14, 15 years old, you know, and rotten relationships.

01:18:59.400 And I was terrified.

01:19:01.340 It's like, man, I've got these guys, and their future depends on how I handle this.

01:19:12.660 And I was, it's the same with the marriage.

01:19:18.100 I mean, I was tyrannical, but it was out of fear.

01:19:23.220 It's like, I'm not letting this world take my kids.

01:19:26.580 I'm not going to let them destroy themselves.

01:19:29.860 And now I'm much, much more secure, you know.

01:19:36.100 And so I can be a whole lot more, just, I can put my foot down when I need to, but I just don't need to as much, you know.

01:19:49.300 So age has a lot to do with it, age and growth and maturity.

01:19:57.060 I mean, I'm still very much the head of the house, but at the same time, as the head of the house, I give her a whole lot more, just do whatever you think's right here, you know.

01:20:11.700 So I've realized kind of late in life, the things, the values that she had to offer that I didn't see before, and I didn't let her offer them.

01:20:26.100 And I see that now, and I'm like, there's no challenge, and there's no fear of losing anything,

01:20:33.460 because I let her make decisions and let her do these things that are really important to her.

01:20:41.400 And so, yeah, things are a whole lot better.

01:20:45.460 It's nice when you get to that point that I imagine, you know, I, even for myself, I've noticed I've been a lot more patient, a lot more gracious,

01:20:54.920 a lot more even empathetic, and not feeling like I have to prove myself so much, or that I have to boss people around.

01:21:07.420 Well, you know, it goes all the way back to, you know, five years ago.

01:21:11.500 So, you know, I looked in the mirror, and I said, dude, you're a jackass to everybody.

01:21:22.140 Now, to a degree, you've had your reasons, all right?

01:21:27.700 It wasn't just willy-nilly just to be that way, but that, you've been like that to your wife.

01:21:32.920 Your wife has tolerated this for 30 years, and I didn't want to be that way anymore.

01:21:40.940 And so, it just spills over into everything in the life.

01:21:43.800 You know, if you become a calmer, more settled, more grounded, introspective person, it carries over to every aspect of your life.

01:21:54.020 You know, and my wife breathes a lot easier at home now.

01:21:58.460 She's, you know, there's a lot-

01:22:00.360 I'm sure she does.

01:22:00.900 Yeah.

01:22:01.500 Yeah.

01:22:02.860 And there's, you know, even now, after all these years, you know, there's little tiny things that, you know, I get a pang in here.

01:22:10.400 I'm like, dude, you remember how you handled that, how you used to handle that, and what you put her through?

01:22:17.960 And, you know, and it makes me want to just go to the mirror again and say, dude, you're a jackass.

01:22:23.180 You know, but we all got to grow.

01:22:29.520 You know, we all have to see the warts and cut them out, you know, and continue to do the best we can and become.

01:22:38.480 Perfect example where we started, become the best that I can be for the sake of those that are around me.

01:22:47.360 Become as good a man as I can be so that my wife in the last half of our marriage has a much, much better marriage than she did in the first half.

01:22:57.220 That's powerful.

01:23:00.980 Yeah.

01:23:01.960 Well, Dwayne, I appreciate you.

01:23:03.380 I've really enjoyed getting to know you over the past several years and our friendship and even the opportunity to come out here and spend the day working with you a little bit.

01:23:11.440 I didn't work as hard as your guys.

01:23:13.020 Those guys are workhorses.

01:23:15.080 Oh, my goodness.

01:23:16.340 You got a hammer to keep up with those guys.

01:23:18.960 No doubt.

01:23:19.560 No doubt.

01:23:20.100 They are impressive, but it was good to be out here with you, and I really appreciate you guys letting me come out and spend some time and all the work that you do.

01:23:27.820 Well, I appreciate you coming out.

01:23:29.300 Come out with a little more time next time, and we'll get you on horseback.

01:23:31.920 That's what I want to do.

01:23:32.640 I'm going to take you up on that.

01:23:33.620 There you go.

01:23:34.200 Thanks, Dwayne.

01:23:34.640 Appreciate it.

01:23:35.060 You bet.

01:23:37.260 What did I tell you guys?

01:23:38.240 I told you that was a good conversation.

01:23:40.720 I told you it was going to be a powerful one, and Dwayne never disappoints.

01:23:43.240 As I said earlier, I was able to go spend some time with him in Kentucky and see his property, spend time on the porch as we just enjoyed good conversation with good people and some life lessons shared between him and his wife and a couple of friends that came over just sitting on the porch at their place was pretty incredible.

01:24:05.120 It was a real blessing to me, and I hope this conversation proves to be invaluable for you.

01:24:10.320 I would highly recommend you go check out what Dwayne is doing, his messages on, again, fatherhood and his faith, and the way that he just shares information is so powerful and very applicable to every man's life.

01:24:23.340 So check it out.

01:24:24.520 Check him out on YouTube.

01:24:25.520 Very active over there.

01:24:26.260 I think he's got probably millions of subscribers at this point.

01:24:30.040 And also, while you're doing that, check out the Order of Man YouTube channel.

01:24:33.920 I've just invested in a lot of new camera equipment, so we're going to be doing a lot more videos like this,

01:24:39.920 where we're going to be on site and enjoying good face-to-face, shoulder-to-shoulder conversations with solid men.

01:24:47.400 So make sure you tune into that at YouTube.com slash Order of Man.

01:24:50.920 And then lastly, check out the Divorce Not Death course or pass it along to a friend or a family member or whoever it might be who is going through a divorce.

01:24:58.980 Give him the link, DivorceNotDeath.com.

01:25:02.580 All right, you guys, those are your marching orders.

01:25:05.340 I appreciate you tuning in.

01:25:06.920 And most importantly, I appreciate you applying this information.

01:25:11.180 That's what we got to do.

01:25:12.240 We got to apply.

01:25:13.120 And hopefully this helps you do that.

01:25:15.000 All right, guys, we'll be back tomorrow for our Ask Me Anything.

01:25:17.860 Until then, go out there, take action, and become the man you are meant to be.

01:25:22.360 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

01:25:25.320 If you're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be,

01:25:28.980 we invite you to join the Order at OrderOfMan.com.

Order of Man - October 28, 2025

DEWAYNE NOEL ｜ A Simple Guide to the Good Life

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