Order of Man

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:04.980 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.460 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.220 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.780 you can call yourself a man. Kip, what's up, man? It's good to see you.

00:00:26.300 It's good to be seen. You're going to have to up your podcast studio game.

00:00:31.880 Just so you know. I'm getting serious. I'm getting serious, man. I got a light there. I got one over

00:00:39.200 there. I got a microphone there. I've got two cameras right there. You got ambient light. It's

00:00:44.080 like a dance club over there. That's funny because I have that light. When my wife saw it for the first

00:00:49.320 time, she's like, welcome to the party. She came in. We roll. She said, what kind of podcast are you

00:00:55.220 running over there? Yeah. I like your white background though. It's very simplistic and

00:01:00.360 elegant. That's boring. Hey, so I did a Murph. First Murph I've ever done. How did you do? Did

00:01:07.400 you do it with the vest? You did it with the vest. I saw it on Instagram. I did it with the vest.

00:01:10.400 What was your time? It doesn't matter. It matters. No, the time matters. Look, here's the thing. People

00:01:18.940 are like, oh, the time. The thing doesn't matter. If it didn't matter, you wouldn't have tracked it,

00:01:24.000 but I guarantee you tracked it. Yeah. It was not good. Well, I was talking to the Clint and Clint's

00:01:28.860 like, oh, my first one took me an hour and this, this time was 50 minutes. I'm thinking that's

00:01:34.560 pretty good. 50 minutes is good. I'm not. Yeah. That's not going to work. It took me an hour and

00:01:38.460 a half. Yeah. I had a really bad headache. So every single time I do my pull-ups and then when I like

00:01:45.500 bend over to do my pushups, like I'd get this like sharp pain in my head. Yeah. I was not

00:01:50.780 probably an aneurysm. It's like not a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. I was probably dehydrated and I just

00:01:55.660 was going to almost faint and hit my head on a dumbbell and die, but no big deal.

00:02:00.500 Jeez. Excuses, man. I didn't take you for one that came up with all those excuses.

00:02:05.020 I had no excuses. It was like 930, 10 o'clock at night. I have a headache and I wanted to go to sleep

00:02:10.100 and I thought, I said I'd do it. So, so I was up until 2 a.m. in the morning because I can't sleep

00:02:15.500 after a workout. You know what I mean? So I know exactly what you mean. Wide awake going.

00:02:19.920 No. Yeah. I think the fastest I ever did it was like just slightly over an hour and I did it maybe

00:02:25.920 three times. I didn't do it yesterday. We actually did a 50 mile march as a family, which is really

00:02:31.660 cool. So did you guys, did you guys think like you did segments or you make your kids walk 50 miles?

00:02:38.020 Okay. No. Well, yeah, we, we did a cumulative total. Okay. Got it. So my wife and I each put in

00:02:45.040 20 and our kids put in the remainder essentially. Okay, cool. So it was cool. Cause everybody pitched

00:02:53.720 in, including our four-year-old and we just did it here in our field. So, you know, or let's see,

00:02:59.640 were you at? Yeah. If you do like the around the perimeter, it's exactly one mile. Okay. So we got 50

00:03:06.480 laps in. Yeah. That's a, it's a good day. It was a good day. Everybody's sore and tired, but it's all

00:03:12.980 good. I love it. And good thing. The baby's not like not a baby anymore. Cause you guys would be

00:03:18.860 out there like getting the baby to crawl at smiling. You're like crawl, baby crawl, do it. What's wrong

00:03:25.480 with you? You're at 23 miles. You're not even halfway. Keep going. Well, should we get into some

00:03:33.280 questions for today? Uh, we're funny. Yeah. Yeah. We're ready. Lots of questions. So our first

00:03:39.620 questions, uh, we're filming some questions from the iron council, our exclusive brotherhood to learn

00:03:44.660 more about the iron council, go to order of man.com slash iron council. And then hopefully we'll get to

00:03:50.040 some of the questions from our Facebook group as well. And that's a facebook.com slash group slash

00:03:55.080 order of man. All right, let's do this. All right. Thomas Clark, knowing what you know now,

00:04:01.280 do you have any advice for a man looking for a partner or a spouse? I'm 31, but since age 20,

00:04:07.380 I spent the majority of my years in long-term relationships and focusing on my career while

00:04:12.500 single for the last three years, I found dating and meeting new people difficult at 30 mainstream

00:04:18.860 advices. Don't look and you shall find, but it has been my experience. You only receive the things

00:04:23.960 that you focus on right now. I'm weighing, uh, weighing on returning to back to school for another

00:04:29.260 degree versus spending the year focusing on myself and finding a relationship. Thanks for

00:04:34.300 your input. So I, I'm thinking about here where, where he said traditional advice is don't look

00:04:41.340 and you'll find it. I actually don't think it's that passive when people are saying that. I mean,

00:04:45.220 yeah, I understand that that's the, that's the sentiment. That's the, the notion they're sharing,

00:04:49.360 but I don't think they're just seeing being passive. I think what they're saying is lower

00:04:54.380 your expectations of looking for a woman and maybe just in go and be around attractive women,

00:05:01.080 like without any expectation of, Oh, I'm, I'm looking for a wife and I'm looking for to be

00:05:06.080 married. And I'm looking, that's, that I think is when you set yourself up. So it's not, you be

00:05:10.940 passive and just like hang out and wait for the beauty to come to you. It's no, you still got to put

00:05:16.960 yourself in the game. Right. But lower your expectations. And I think you'll have a better

00:05:21.180 chance. Also the one, one other thought that I had with this is like, make yourself like the best

00:05:30.100 catch you can possibly be. And I, and I've noticed that that just becoming more attractive attracts

00:05:36.000 more women, right? Like, and I'm not just saying physically, although that is a component, but learn

00:05:41.220 new skills, learn how to communicate, uh, lose the spare tire around your midsection, get strong,

00:05:46.740 get, get, get in good shape. Um, get your mind worked out, like have goals and ambitions and like

00:05:53.800 really just genuinely improve every facet of your life. And I think you'll be pleasantly surprised

00:05:59.640 or maybe not surprised at how many women are all of a sudden coming out of the woodworks and are

00:06:04.960 interested in you. And this is how, how it works as well. So yeah, I would just go where

00:06:10.540 attractive women are, um, engage with them with low expectations of any sort of long-term

00:06:15.600 relationship. Um, I would definitely, as you're dating, look for potential red flags and address

00:06:20.800 those red flags early and often. Um, I would ask questions about marriage and long-term commitments

00:06:27.740 and children and raising children and money and spirituality and religion and all the things that

00:06:33.400 most young and new couples don't want to talk about because you potentially rock the boat.

00:06:38.080 Like those, that's actually a time where you might want to actually rock the boat because if she can't

00:06:43.520 hang, then you need to know that. And if you weren't willing to hang with her because of what

00:06:46.900 she's got going on, then it would be good to know that sooner rather than later. So the best time to

00:06:51.240 rock the boat in a relationship is early. And then, you know, okay, is this somebody I want to continue

00:06:57.460 to invest time and resources and energy and attention into? But if you avoid having those types of

00:07:03.500 conversations, cause you, I just want it all to work out. It's not going to work out smooth. Yeah.

00:07:08.760 Right. Right. So have those difficult conversations and you're much more likely to find somebody you're

00:07:13.820 compatible with and is on the same page and all that fun stuff.

00:07:18.060 Right. And when people say like, don't, you know, don't, what was the term that he used?

00:07:23.160 Like, don't go looking for it kind of mentality. I think, would you agree that a lot of that comes down

00:07:27.740 to not putting so much weight on it. Right. It's like, if you make it so critical that like,

00:07:34.040 oh, I got to find a relationship and that's like overbearing. That's a burden. It's, it's,

00:07:38.860 it's too much importance on it. You're going to come across desperate. No one wants to be with you

00:07:43.860 because like, you got to have a relationship. And then it's just, it's unattractive and desperate

00:07:49.600 really. Right. It's that, that desperation is so visible, man. When I was early in my financial

00:07:55.260 planning practice, I was desperate for new clients and it was the hardest time I ever had

00:07:59.300 in trying to get new clients because I didn't, I needed them and they didn't need me. And that's

00:08:05.580 a bad position to be in. It's a horrible position to be in. But when I didn't need my clients,

00:08:11.720 that's when I always got referrals and people calling me, people introduced to me. I didn't

00:08:16.820 even know who they were. I stopped marketing like the traditional, traditional marketing.

00:08:20.580 And I was turning people away. I didn't need clients. And that's when they came out,

00:08:24.420 which is kind of a shitty dichotomy because like when you need it, you can't get it. When you don't

00:08:31.200 need it, you have an overabundance of it. It's kind of sucks. But if you strip away everything,

00:08:36.260 it comes back to the way that you present yourself, the work that you're doing, the effort

00:08:40.720 that you're putting in. And then that's what produces the result. It's not the fact that you

00:08:45.940 don't need it. It's the fact that you've done enough self-work to be in the position that you don't

00:08:50.980 need somebody else's approval, that you don't need their validation, that you've got enough going

00:08:56.340 on over here because you've done the work on yourself to get to that point. So yeah, desperation

00:09:02.260 in, in yourself is not, is not attractive. In fact, it's repulsive. Yeah. All right. Luke Watts,

00:09:12.760 what rituals, not routines, have you developed with your family? A ritual being words and actions

00:09:18.240 with symbolic meaning. I have a young family and I'm thinking about different ways to communicate

00:09:22.860 what's important. Grace before meals is one ritual that we do daily, church on the weekends. We do

00:09:29.480 Christmas this way, Easter that way, but haven't created anything truly ours. I guess I'm thinking

00:09:34.560 as the kids and boys, girls and boys grow up, how do we communicate the important values in a different

00:09:41.120 way apart from speaking and modeling? Yeah. I mean, speaking and modeling is huge. So I definitely

00:09:46.660 don't want anybody to overlook that and just your day-to-day actions. And as long as they're

00:09:51.220 consistent, then I think you're pretty good. I think it's more important than anything. Yeah,

00:09:55.360 totally. I think if you said last year, the same thing that you said this year, although your son or

00:09:59.860 daughter might say, Oh, it's just dad being dad again. It's the foundation that they will turn to

00:10:05.520 when they get older and they're out on their own and they're trying to figure their own stuff out.

00:10:08.780 So let's not over or let's not under value the importance of just being hyper consistent,

00:10:17.100 hyper available, having conversations, having discussions. We do that around the dinner table.

00:10:22.540 We say prayer, we have family meetings. We do a lot of puzzles and games together.

00:10:27.140 We walk outside, we bounce on the trampoline. These are day-to-day activities that from the outside

00:10:32.960 looking in don't seem all that exciting and glamorous, but those are where we secure the most

00:10:38.020 victories because we don't do it just today. We do it every single day of the week. And that

00:10:43.100 compounds over 365 days, which eventually becomes 3000 and 30,000 and on and on. Right. So that's,

00:10:51.440 that's where the emphasis should be placed. Now, that being said, I think specifically for boys,

00:10:57.100 I think having some sort of rite of passage and for, for girls as well, I think it'd work for both.

00:11:02.360 Some sort of rite of passage could be very, very valuable. And I do this with,

00:11:07.680 I've done it with my two oldest boys because they've hit age eight. And then I do it every

00:11:12.840 two years until they reach age 18. So we will have done it five times over the course of

00:11:19.280 between eight to 18. Um, and these are things that we go and there's a physical element of it.

00:11:25.320 There's a mental element of it. There's a completion element of it. There's a representation

00:11:30.880 of it. Like I'll give, give them or gift them something that is a reminder of what we discussed and what

00:11:36.380 we talked about and what they accomplished anywhere from a hike to being gone in the wilderness for

00:11:42.160 five days. Like these are things that you could definitely implement. And if you're interested,

00:11:46.420 because I did see this question earlier, um, you can head, if you just typed in rite of passage

00:11:52.360 on our website, you would find a podcast that I did. Dang, it's almost, it's almost three years old.

00:12:00.540 Now that's crazy. Uh, called building a rite of passage. And I talk about the elements that go

00:12:07.080 into building out a rite of passage. Cool. All right. Thomas Zimmerman. Uh, when is it time to cut

00:12:15.860 out certain people from our lives? In our case, my in-laws have been encouraging my wife for years to

00:12:21.900 attempt better relations with her family, pretty much to no avail. Our oldest daughter has recently

00:12:27.960 been manipulated into thinking that she would be better off living with her aunts and she is

00:12:33.640 struggling with drug addiction in Canada at 17. She is legally allowed to choose where she wants to

00:12:39.160 live. Although we remain legal, uh, legally responsible for her actions until she's 18.

00:12:44.140 It's a mess. Police have been involved. My wife wants absolute nothing to do with her family anymore.

00:12:49.860 As a father, I'm at least attempting to communicate with my daughter. Where do I draw the line? Our hands are

00:12:55.880 pretty much tight at this point legally and really in from a relationship perspective. I'm keeping the

00:13:00.820 door open in my own heart for the hopeful eventual eventuality of a restored relationship

00:13:06.520 with my daughter, but not the in-laws. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I mean,

00:13:11.640 look, no situation is going to be ideal in, in, in what you're dealing with right now. Like you can't,

00:13:16.780 you can't have everything at least right now that you want. And Kip, I imagine that you have some

00:13:21.360 things to share on this as well, just based on, um, maybe some relationships with your son. I don't

00:13:26.780 want to like throw you under the bus, but I think this, I think this might be, let's pull, let's open

00:13:31.320 the can of worms here. No, I mean, you've talked about it before and I think it would be applicable,

00:13:35.060 you know? So, um, but yeah, I, I would just keep the, keep the lines of communication open to the

00:13:40.660 degree that you can, uh, keep working on yourself, keep improving yourself and, and keep encouraging your

00:13:45.760 wife to improve herself. Um, I think you need to tread lightly. If there's certain conversations

00:13:51.620 that tend to be bitter and contentious, maybe now is not the time to have those conversations.

00:13:57.240 Maybe now it's just about being empathetic and loving and supportive and kind and gracious.

00:14:02.660 And if you know, the conversation is steering towards something that you guys typically blow up about,

00:14:07.460 then just ease off, just back off from that. You don't need to have that conversation right now.

00:14:12.020 And I know that there may be some situations that she's living that you don't agree with.

00:14:17.140 Um, that certainly you don't condone that you don't definitely want to see her go down this path,

00:14:21.620 but she's there. So let's not exacerbate the problem by getting in her face and being loud

00:14:28.400 and being obnoxious and lecturing her and just find a way to maybe coax her back into, uh, the

00:14:34.760 foundations that I'm assuming maybe to some degree you've created over the course of 17 years.

00:14:39.540 That's what I've got. That's a unfortunate situation.

00:14:43.700 How important do you think boundaries are from this circumstance? I I'm assuming,

00:14:48.160 I mean, there's a little bit of like, Hey, we don't want our daughter to be living, living elsewhere,

00:14:53.340 but in the same breath, right? If she has a drug addiction and she's struggling,

00:14:57.400 potentially there's some risk there of her having that around your home as well. Right. And so I,

00:15:04.580 I'm assuming that you kind of haven't. Yeah. Yeah. About the importance of boundaries as well.

00:15:08.980 In this circumstance. Yeah. I think, I think you definitely do because there, I don't know if you

00:15:13.500 have other kids at home, you know, but if you bring your daughter back and an enabler, then you're

00:15:19.780 creating it. You're creating a worse environment for your daughter who's dealing with this. It may

00:15:23.520 not seem like it because she's there and that's good for you, but might not necessarily be good for

00:15:28.320 her. Um, and then you have other kids around and it creates a problem. Then she becomes an influence

00:15:33.000 and, and it just could go downhill fast. So I'm not saying to cut your losses,

00:15:37.540 but I think having the boundaries established and having rules for the way in which you will live.

00:15:43.460 And if she's an adult, she's an adult, you know, 17 is young. I mean, there's studies that show that

00:15:49.600 the brain isn't even fully developed till early to mid twenties, you know, 17 is young. So all you can

00:15:56.260 do is hope that the foundation that you've laid and your continual involvement to the degree that

00:16:02.640 she wants to be involved will, will come back to her. Like she'll remember these things. She'll

00:16:08.740 straighten herself out and she'll view you not as the enemy, but as an ally. I think that's really

00:16:14.880 what you need to focus on, but, but definitely boundaries. Like you can't have her coming in and

00:16:18.880 stealing from you or we're doing drugs in the house or, or, or potential legal issues that come

00:16:25.660 across or fall upon you. Like you gotta be careful of that stuff too. Yeah. Well, and that could affect

00:16:30.520 your parenting of your other children. I mean, that's what I'm saying. The consequence of this

00:16:33.920 could be massive. Right. Right. For sure. Yep. Yeah. The only thing that really comes to mind is

00:16:39.040 just the importance of having a stoic mentality, right? It's, it's very easier. At least it has been

00:16:44.760 for me to be very emotional and make people wrong. Like she's wrong, right? She shouldn't be doing

00:16:50.620 XXX. She probably knows that. Right. And, and I think going, uh, leaning back on the boundaries

00:16:57.800 of saying, Hey, this is what's acceptable. This is what's not acceptable from a really stoic

00:17:02.620 perspective. And then you're just enforcing the boundary, but you're not getting mad. You're not

00:17:07.700 getting angry. You're not attacking, you know, you might want to, you know, obviously let them know

00:17:12.580 why these boundaries exist and there's risks to your con, you know, to your decisions. And it could

00:17:16.800 affect us in a negative way, but we love you. And here's the rules and, and you got to keep to them.

00:17:22.220 And I can't stress that enough. Right. Brian, you've talked about this like numerous times in

00:17:26.600 the past is like, when we don't, when we don't withhold our boundaries, we lose respect. Our word

00:17:33.340 doesn't mean anything. And, and I think, especially in this circumstance, you know, she could get in a

00:17:39.280 position where she's going to want to walk all over you. Right. She's going to want to do what she

00:17:43.920 wants to do. You don't want to test for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And if you're not, if you're not

00:17:47.320 standing up to the test and saying, no, that's not allowed, then you're all, you're not just

00:17:52.400 allowing her to quote unquote, get away with something that might affect your family, but

00:17:56.820 you're giving her no stability. You're, you're providing no guidance and direction of what's

00:18:01.700 allowed and what's not allowed because your word doesn't mean anything because you keep folding

00:18:05.560 over, uh, when she wants to do what she wants to do. So I just can't reiterate that enough

00:18:10.300 to be stoic and, and withhold those boundaries. Yeah. Yeah, definitely tough. All right. Yeah.

00:18:16.760 Super tough. Uh, Kyle Pickard, how do you set healthy boundaries and be more assertive with

00:18:22.200 people without being a dick as a recovery, nice guy. I'm, I'm tired of getting walked all over

00:18:27.680 and I've been consistently working on this second question, best piece of advice on building systems

00:18:33.180 in my business to allow more time off to enjoy life and build relationships. Okay. So the reason

00:18:40.080 you feel like you're being a dick is one of two things, either you're not being a dick,

00:18:47.380 but it just feels like it. Cause you're not used to it. That's probably, that's probably

00:18:52.160 what's happening or you are being a dick because you've taken it to such an unhealthy level that

00:19:00.060 you feel like the only response and the only way to avoid being walked on is by being an asshole.

00:19:06.080 So that's, what's happening. It's, it's one of those two things. And I would lean more towards

00:19:12.260 just because you're being aware of it. I would lean more towards you think it's being a dick,

00:19:17.320 but it's actually not. It just feels like it. Cause you're not used to standing up for yourself.

00:19:22.120 So this is going to take a lot of practice and it's going to take a lot of evaluation.

00:19:27.220 Okay. And, and you can ask people closest to you, not everybody, just people close to you. Hey,

00:19:33.760 you know, like how is, how has my demeanor changed over the past several months?

00:19:37.900 Do I seem to be more confident? Do I seem to be more assertive? Am I being in an a-hole? Like,

00:19:43.820 am I walking over people? Am I misunderstanding? It's hard for us to see how we come across to other

00:19:49.980 people. We have an idea of how we think we do, but we don't know how we're coming across

00:19:54.840 to other people. So we can enlist only people closest to us. In fact, Kyle, you're in the iron

00:20:00.200 council. You got battle brothers in there, man. So I don't know how long you've been in the iron

00:20:05.480 council, but if you've been in for any amount of time, you should ask them, Hey guys, like I'm

00:20:09.940 really trying to work on being more assertive and not being all walked over. Um, can you help under,

00:20:14.760 like, give me some feedback? Like, am, am I, am I more assertive? Am I, am I strong, more strong

00:20:22.540 willed? Am I sticking up for myself? And am I doing it in an unhealthy way or a healthy way?

00:20:27.060 They'll let you know, like, if you ask for it, they'll let you know. And I hate to say this too,

00:20:31.440 but it is the truth. You're going to have to be a dick at some time, at some point, and then you're

00:20:37.540 going to have to experience it because assertiveness is a range, right? It's, it's not like there's this

00:20:45.940 like one perfect place where you're assertive. And it means that you're, you're not being walked

00:20:51.600 over, but you're being nice and kind. Like it's, it's not like one place. And also people are

00:20:58.860 different. The way Kip, I would, I would communicate with you is going to be different than Kyle. The

00:21:03.380 way I would communicate with you because you're different and you receive information differently.

00:21:07.540 And so what I might say something to you, Kip, and you're like, Oh yeah, that's assertive.

00:21:12.640 And I might say the exact same thing to Kyle and Kyle might be, well, why are you being an asshole?

00:21:16.840 Yeah. Cause the other party that I'm communicating with has a vote in the way that they're perceiving

00:21:22.860 my instruction or my communication. So it's going to take experimentation and I've messed up more times

00:21:29.860 than I'd like to admit. But every time I mess up, whether I'm overly nice or overly jerkish,

00:21:36.600 I begin to find where the balance is. And then I become a better, more assertive communicator through

00:21:45.420 trial and error evaluation, and then outside feedback so that I can know how it's coming

00:21:51.500 across other individuals. Yeah. Well, and you're shaking the boat here, right? Like if we're talking

00:21:57.480 about established relationships, you know, you, you've been the great passive guy that, that always

00:22:02.620 allowed me to get what I wanted in our relationship for the last year. And now all of a sudden you're

00:22:07.680 saying no, it doesn't matter how you say no, you're being a dick based upon our history. Right. So

00:22:15.820 it just kind of keep that in mind. And that's the unfortunate part too, because you're, I think

00:22:19.960 your loved ones are going to see it as a negative thing at first. I think if you communicate it though,

00:22:27.360 effectively, I actually think they'll help you. I really do. I think if you can enlist your loved

00:22:33.140 ones. And when I say loved ones, it could be your wife and your children, and it could be battle

00:22:36.940 brothers in the iron council, like the people that care about you. I think if you enlist them and you

00:22:41.740 explain to them your motives, like if it were me, okay, I'm, I'm recovering nice guy, for example.

00:22:46.080 And let's say Kip that I liked you and I respected you. Just the hypothetical hypothetical. Yeah.

00:22:52.080 Yeah. I won't get my sake argument. And I came to you and I said, Hey Kip, you know, like I'm really

00:22:58.040 trying to work on something that's been an issue of mine. Like I tend to be a people pleaser. I tend to

00:23:02.960 get walked over because of it. And I have a hard time exerting my will and communicating my thoughts

00:23:08.340 because I'm a little worried about how someone else might perceive it. And I don't want to be

00:23:11.540 a jerk. Yeah. But what I'm realizing is that I'm not actually taking care of myself, that I am

00:23:20.160 actually bitter and frustrated and contentious. A lot of the times, um, that I'm not real fulfilled

00:23:25.700 or happy and that I don't have time to do the things I want to do. And I also feel like nobody listens

00:23:29.320 to me. So that's what I'm dealing with right now. So over the next several months, I'm going to be

00:23:34.600 doing X, Y, and Z to try to be more assertive and to try to share my opinions and say yes to the things

00:23:42.920 I'm really interested in, learn to say no to the things I'm not interested in. And I was wondering

00:23:48.120 if you would help me do that. Do you have any feedback or suggestions? And then if you would,

00:23:52.220 maybe just occasionally give me a little nudge, like maybe I'm being too nice or maybe I'm being

00:23:56.700 too much of a jerk. And maybe you, because I respect you, you can point me in the right direction.

00:24:02.740 Like what, what loved one would hear something like that and say, nah, I'm not, I don't want to do

00:24:09.100 that. I'm good. Like they care about you. They love you. They want you to win. Right. So they're

00:24:14.580 willing to do that. But I would say this as a disclaimer, and I've talked about this before,

00:24:18.620 if you're soliciting feedback, you are signing on the line that you relinquish your right to defend

00:24:26.280 yourself. Yeah. Okay. So that's what happens when you say, Kip, I want some feedback. I'm also saying

00:24:34.220 whether I'm verbalizing it or not, I'm also saying it. And when you give it to me, I will not be a

00:24:39.300 about it. Yeah. So if they're giving you feedback, it's going to be painful. That is the nature of

00:24:47.060 feedback. Deal with it because pain is how we grow and improve. All right. And his second question,

00:24:54.560 best piece of advice on building systems. Here he is walking over us. Yeah. Best piece of advice on

00:25:00.440 building systems in my business to allow more time off to enjoy life and build relationships.

00:25:06.860 So here's what I've done with order of man document and my financial planning practice to document

00:25:13.340 everything, everything. So I'll give you an example. When I started the podcast in March of 2015,

00:25:19.060 2015, I wrote down the process of interviewing, recording, uploading, adding an image. I wrote it

00:25:28.120 all, everything. I wrote it all down. Why would I do that? All the steps, all the steps. Why would I

00:25:33.500 do that? I was doing it. I didn't need to write it down. I knew what had to be done, but I did it

00:25:38.900 because I knew that at some point somebody else was going to be doing this. And I wanted that to be an

00:25:46.320 easy transition because I didn't want to have to like reteach somebody everything. So now I could

00:25:51.400 just hand this document over and we've got Cody Lanham doing it. And I handed the document to him

00:25:56.280 and he had some questions. He's like, Hey, I don't understand this. Why do you do it this way? Why do

00:26:00.160 you do it that way? I clarified. He actually came with his own thoughts and ideas that are better in

00:26:04.640 some ways, but we had that standardized document that we could draw from where he could improve upon it

00:26:09.400 and I could share my way. He could share his way. And then we come up with a way that works.

00:26:13.300 So you have to have enough foresight to think, okay, I'm going to document everything. Even if

00:26:17.920 it seems silly or unimportant, everything should have a document or a system outlined because the

00:26:25.520 next step is to begin to move into delegation. And that's really where you're going to begin to

00:26:31.520 step away. Cause Robert Kiyosaki talks about this in his book, rich dad, poor dad. If you are a

00:26:37.080 quote unquote business owner, but the business would shut down. If you were not working in it,

00:26:41.900 you are not a business owner necessarily. You're more self-employed. For example, think about a

00:26:48.920 dentist. All right. A dentist, he's self-employed. Typically a dentist is self-employed. They, they

00:26:56.220 might be, they might own the business, but they're self-employed because they need to go in and actually

00:27:00.200 have their hands in somebody's mouth. And if they don't, they're not making any money. Now, where they

00:27:04.900 begin to make the transition is when they first hire a dental assistant, because now they're taking some

00:27:11.080 of the load off and then they bring another junior associate or, or dentist in so that they can take

00:27:19.020 over some of the workload. Now they're becoming and moving more into a business owner position. And

00:27:24.980 that's really what you want to get to. If you're trying to maximize your time in other things, there's

00:27:30.160 things like within this company that I don't do. Like I don't edit the podcast. Cody does that. I don't

00:27:36.200 come up with the assignments for the iron council. Anthony does that, right? Like these are the things

00:27:41.180 there's thing, even conversations to have new team leaders. I don't do that initially. You do that.

00:27:46.580 And if they pass that test, then, then I get to talk with them. Right? So there's all these little

00:27:51.740 delegation components that allow me to do the things that I really enjoy within this organization

00:27:58.500 and the things I enjoy outside of the organization to like jumping on the trampoline with my family or

00:28:03.120 going on a 50 mile ruck or whatever. So document everything, come up with systems for everything,

00:28:08.620 and then gradually start peeling those things off and saying, okay, well, I think I might be able to

00:28:13.600 pay somebody to do this now. And you pay them to do that. And then you gradually start ciphering more

00:28:18.740 and more of it off. And that's how you get to the position you want to be. Totally. The only thing,

00:28:25.060 if you don't mind me adding for Kyle here. No, I do. I do. Let's keep going. I'm going to keep

00:28:29.480 talking. You don't need more time to enjoy life. Like he purposely wrote, he said, allow more time

00:28:38.180 off to enjoy life and build relationships. I just, I want to call this out just really quick

00:28:42.880 because it's been on my mind of late. I've actually been focusing on implementing kind of promoting deep

00:28:49.780 work within our company and the importance of it and the role that it plays in fulfillment and

00:28:54.800 enjoying life. And so because of that, you can enjoy life and fulfillment right now. And one of

00:29:03.160 the most effective ways of doing that is really focused on not doing busy work, right? Like, and don't

00:29:11.860 bleed busy work into your life and go home and try to check email while you're hanging out with your kid

00:29:19.020 and like draw a line, get fully engaged while you're at work. And when you get home, get fully engaged

00:29:26.480 with your family, um, as a kind of maybe an interim to kind of building these systems is just really get

00:29:33.960 present, uh, uh, with whatever it is that you're doing and you'll, you'll find just more fulfillment

00:29:38.600 even through your work and your, and your time with your family as well. So. Yeah, I agree. I, I don't,

00:29:44.120 I don't think it's a time of a more time issue. Like you, I was going to say, you can't get more

00:29:50.680 time. You actually can. I'll explain it in a minute, but generally speaking, you don't get

00:29:54.200 more time. The Kip, you, me, whoever else, we all have the same amount of time. You can manage it

00:30:00.180 better though. Yeah. And if I manage my time better than you, Kip, I'm going to be more fulfilled.

00:30:05.920 Totally. And, and notice, notice how I said I didn't, I'm going to be like, I'm going to make more

00:30:12.000 money. I didn't say that. I said, I'm going to be more fulfilled because I'm going to do the things

00:30:17.700 that are fulfilling to me. And maybe making money or more money isn't as significant to me as it,

00:30:23.960 as it might be to you, just as an example, maybe fulfillment for me is spend time with my family.

00:30:29.700 So if I manage my time in the business very well, then I will be fulfilled because I have more time

00:30:33.420 with my family and maybe for you. And I, I don't think this is necessarily the case, but let's just

00:30:38.400 assume that it's all about the career and business and making money. And if you manage your time

00:30:44.400 better than me, then you will have more fulfillment. You will achieve whatever it is that you're after.

00:30:50.900 So it's a time management thing. Now, what I said earlier is I said, you can't get more time.

00:30:56.240 You actually can get more time because you have, you don't get more than 24 hours, but in a way you

00:31:03.480 kind of do, because if I can hire you Kip to do two hours of my work every day, then I just created

00:31:10.160 26 hours where normally I'd only have, or I should say, that's a good, that's fine way to, you guys

00:31:17.280 get the point. 26 hours, you know, where you'd only have 24 or 24 hours where normally you'd only have

00:31:23.420 22. You get the point. I can buy time is what I'm saying. And I buy it by paying somebody else

00:31:30.940 to do something so that I can go do something else. Totally. All right. Chris Gatchko,

00:31:40.460 where do high level leaders get their guidance? Between Order of Man and Iron Council, you've

00:31:46.540 created two communities where tens of thousands of men can come get guidance on issues regarding

00:31:52.220 calibration, contribution, connection, and condition goals. That being said, since they are

00:31:58.020 your communities, you don't use them to seek the same counsel. This is not uncommon amongst your

00:32:03.800 peers in the self-development space or even executives on a C-level. So when you lead a

00:32:09.760 community like this and knowing ultimately the true value that they provide, where does someone like

00:32:14.600 you in high level leadership positions find that same support system? It's actually very much the

00:32:20.560 same. You know, it's, and I'm not saying it's necessarily in the same place, but there's

00:32:24.940 organizations, there's mentoring programs, there's conferences, there's brotherhoods, there's

00:32:30.520 individual coaching that I purchase. I get this type of stuff in very much the same way as anybody

00:32:37.060 else. I just pay for it. I find somebody who's doing what I want to do and has had success for

00:32:42.780 themselves and coaching other people. And then I pay them typically more money, right? That's the,

00:32:48.760 otherwise everybody would do that. So to gain access to higher caliber individuals, you have to invest

00:32:54.340 more. And usually that's in the form of money. So I pay them more money than what most people are

00:33:00.240 paying in iron council to have access to new and different information. So it isn't, it isn't some,

00:33:08.900 some secret. It's just, you find the things that you're interested in, find people who are successful.

00:33:13.680 And then look, when you reach that, that level of success, you know, I've, I've had plenty of peers

00:33:18.640 and people that I've been inspired and led and motivated by who I feel like in some capacity,

00:33:23.900 I've reached a similar level. And so in a way you outgrow their coaching and that's okay. No hard

00:33:32.500 feelings. That individual shouldn't have hard feelings. That's actually kind of the point. Like,

00:33:36.240 let me teach you what I know so you can get to where I'm at, right? Isn't that the point of coaching?

00:33:40.320 And then when you get there, it's like, okay, well, you can't get me to that next level. You don't know

00:33:45.480 how to get there. So I need to find somebody else who's gotten me to that level. So I have grown out

00:33:50.000 of coaching. I've evolved past certain coaching and that's not speaking ill of any of these guys.

00:33:55.040 It's just saying they got me to where I wanted to be at the time. And now based on where I am and

00:33:59.660 where I want to continue to go, I need to find somebody else to get me further down that path.

00:34:03.900 So I do invest a lot in, in conferences, in courses and individual coaching, uh, to get what is I'm

00:34:12.980 after. Cool. All right. Daniel Madison, when is it okay to quit? The new popular term is pivot,

00:34:20.540 but for many, it's the same as quit, but sounds nicer. At times we may need to quit something good

00:34:26.780 in order to do something great. Example, writing, starting order of man and selling his other

00:34:31.700 business. So when should we pivot? AKA quit. Look, I'm not one to mince words. I don't,

00:34:40.400 and I have no problem. Sometimes quitting is the right thing. Yeah. And I'm fine with that.

00:34:45.740 That's the same thing. People do the same thing with failure. You're not failing. You're learning.

00:34:50.000 No, you failed. You didn't accomplish what you want to do accomplish. It doesn't make you a loser.

00:34:55.580 It doesn't make you a failure. It just means you failed. Like let's stop trying to sugarcoat all of

00:35:01.180 this stuff and pretend it's something different than it is because the risk that we run when we do that

00:35:05.680 is excusing our behavior and dismissing our poor performance. Like if I just say, Oh, I didn't fail.

00:35:13.760 Like, you know, I kind of, I kind of learned some things. And then it's like, well, did you actually

00:35:19.020 learn anything? Because you keep doing the same dumb shit over and over and over again. Why not

00:35:24.720 actually feel bad about sucking at something so that you do enough work? So you don't feel bad about it.

00:35:31.560 But we live in this society that is just, just obsessed and infatuated with feeling good.

00:35:39.060 Life isn't about feeling good. You know, I went and did a workout this morning. I didn't want to go

00:35:43.640 work out. I wanted to go do whatever else, like have a drink or, you know, like hang out with my kids

00:35:50.940 or like a thousand other things that came into my mind. I didn't want to work out because I didn't

00:35:55.680 feel like it, but I went and worked out because my feelings have nothing to do with my commitments.

00:36:02.340 I made a commitment to do it. So I go do it. That's how it works. And if I was bought into the

00:36:07.940 notion of society that says, yeah, well, you just, you gotta, I just want you to feel good about who

00:36:12.800 you are and where you are and body positive movement, not bullshit. This stuff is not going to serve you

00:36:19.160 well at all. So yes, when you quit something is because you quit. Now there's a whole myriad of

00:36:27.660 reasons why you would. Some are valid. Some aren't. When I quit my financial planning practice, I sold

00:36:33.420 my business. It was a valid, legitimate reason. I was no longer interested in it. I had found something

00:36:40.000 I was more interested in. I wasn't serving my clients well anymore. And it just wasn't interesting

00:36:45.700 to me. So I quit. That seems pretty valid to me actually. Now, if I said, oh, it was just hard

00:36:52.640 and I didn't know how to do it. I really wanted to. It was really a dream of mine. And I really

00:36:55.920 wanted to make it work, but it was hard. So I quit. Okay. That's BS. That's not a valid quit reason,

00:37:02.800 but they're both quitting. So again, I'm not one to mince words now. So when is it? So let's say it

00:37:10.140 this way. When is it okay to quit? When you're no longer interested in it. When it's not serving

00:37:15.620 you or your vision that you have for yourself, it's okay. It's okay. Like if, if, if I remember,

00:37:22.620 I would get a phone call from clients and I pull up my phone and I'd see who it was. And I'd be like,

00:37:28.080 Oh, I do not want to talk about their stock market portfolio anymore. And that's when I knew I'm like,

00:37:37.680 okay, I got to get out of this because it's bad for me. It's not good for my clients. I'm not

00:37:42.720 upholding my fiduciary responsibilities. So I got to get out of here. And that's exactly what I did.

00:37:49.260 You can call it quit. You can call it pivot. You can call it whatever you want. But the reality is

00:37:53.520 I was no longer interested. And I found a path that I was more interested in more engaged in.

00:37:58.180 And I haven't been happier because I decided to quit. Yeah. All about the motive, right. Or the reason

00:38:05.320 reason and don't, don't BS yourself either. Right. Like, cause what, what you might be tempted to do

00:38:12.520 again, we're talking about mincing words here is you might be tempted to say, well, I just really

00:38:16.720 wasn't interested in it. It's like, was that true? Or are you just saying that because it's easier than

00:38:22.420 saying you suck at it? Yeah. Cause like I take jujitsu the other night I went and rolled and there

00:38:29.780 was only four of us there hypothetically rolled and hypothetically there was only four of us there.

00:38:35.940 Six feet. Allegedly. Allegedly. And, uh, I was so frustrated, man. So frustrated. And in my mind,

00:38:46.540 I was like, Oh, this is stupid. I'm not getting any better. I'm just not going to do this anymore.

00:38:52.480 And like, I was trying to rationalize it. Like you're not getting better. You should be getting

00:38:55.600 better. Maybe you're just not a good jujitsu player. Maybe it's just not for you. Like

00:38:59.720 these are the things, this is a stupid, it's stupid. Like listening to myself now, I'm like,

00:39:04.660 that's stupid. That's not rational. But I was convincing myself that stuff. And so you got to

00:39:11.200 be very careful of the self-talk and the things that you're telling yourself, because it sounds

00:39:14.640 like legitimate. It sounds real. You know yourself better than anybody else, even at a subconscious

00:39:20.680 level. And your subconscious will do things to you because it knows how to make you feel really,

00:39:27.520 really comfortable and happy with yourself and quitting doesn't feel good, but it feels better

00:39:33.480 than being in pain. And so your subconscious will make you quit because it doesn't want you to be in

00:39:40.820 pain. Check. You're no longer in pain. And then it will tell you it's pivoting because it doesn't want

00:39:46.080 you to be an emotional pain. Yeah. It wasn't for you. Right. So you got to turn that thing off,

00:39:52.220 man. It's a bad deal. So just don't lie. Just don't lie. That's what I said. And I don't,

00:39:59.680 did you see that little rant I made in the iron council the other day about not lying?

00:40:03.140 Yeah. Yeah. Because I had guys that would come and they're like,

00:40:06.520 Hey Ryan, like I'm leaving the iron council. Like the timing is off. And I'm like, Oh really?

00:40:14.460 What's going to change? Like every time somebody sends me a message like that,

00:40:18.140 I'm going to come back in like six months. And I write them, what's going to change?

00:40:21.620 And every once in a while I get a message that says, Oh, well, I'm going to be done with basic

00:40:24.900 training. I'm like, cool. Check. Got it. Valid. Legit. Yeah. Right. Or somebody's like,

00:40:31.080 Oh, I don't know. I'll just be in like a better place. I'm like, you liar.

00:40:35.660 Yeah. And it's not about me. Look, I don't, you can lie to me. I don't care. It doesn't hurt my

00:40:40.060 feeling. That's fine. You're lying to yourself, man. Just say, just say, I'm not interested in

00:40:46.520 investing myself right now. Okay. At least, at least you're being truthful. At least you're not

00:40:54.940 being delusional and fooling yourself into thinking that something's happening that really isn't

00:41:00.340 happening. Like if somebody came to me and they just said, Hey Ryan, like I actually don't like the

00:41:05.840 Aaron counsel. I don't get any value from it. I would much rather hear that than, Hey bro. Like,

00:41:12.020 I really like what you're doing. And I think it's really cool, but like, it's not for me or

00:41:16.080 like, what does that mean? Don't lie. Don't lie. And again, it's not about me. It's not about saving

00:41:22.440 me or my feelings or how I feel about you. It's telling yourself the truth. You know, like if,

00:41:30.500 if you say things like, Oh, you know, it's so hard to lose weight during the holidays. Cause like all

00:41:35.940 the sweets and everything, you're lying to yourself. Like you're making up little justifications.

00:41:41.240 It's not because there's sweets around. It's because you lack discipline. Yeah. That's the truth.

00:41:48.100 The truth is not, Oh, it's hard in the holidays. Cause everybody loves pie. No, it's that you can't

00:41:54.040 resist pie. You haven't learned to do that yet. And people don't say that because it's, it sucks.

00:42:01.340 Right? Like, I don't want to look in the mirror and say, Ryan, you are not good at this,

00:42:05.440 but I would much rather do that and then fix it. Then look at the guy in the mirror and say,

00:42:11.900 you're really good at this, Ryan. And know deep down that I'm full of shit and that I should be

00:42:19.180 ashamed because I'm not living my potential. Totally. It's funny. I was talking with, um,

00:42:30.360 it was just Nolan. Actually, we were talking earlier. I had a phone call with him yesterday.

00:42:34.840 And one of the things I told him when running a battle team is the entire process should

00:42:41.340 seem unfair, like unreasonable, like not, not fair. And, and, and the example I gave him is

00:42:50.740 the tall tale sign is if someone says, okay, we have our team called, let's say it every Tuesday

00:42:56.880 at 7 PM. And the guy goes, Oh, well, my schedule is really tough, but I'll do my best to be there.

00:43:02.700 What you'll do your best. Like you're already giving yourself an excuse to not have to do something.

00:43:09.440 I'd much rather have a guy say, I will be there no matter what every time. And then when he doesn't

00:43:16.660 show up, he clears it up, restores his integrity and recommits to be there every time. Even if being

00:43:24.120 there every time is impractical, but at least it shows a level of commitment, right?

00:43:29.660 It does. And you're absolutely right. And I would also say, I would much rather have somebody say,

00:43:34.920 I'll do my, I'd, I'd rather have, instead of saying, I'll do my best, I'd rather have them

00:43:40.480 say, no, I will not be there on Tuesday because my daughter is graduating high school and I'm going

00:43:46.020 to be at her graduation. Yeah. But I'm not like he knows about graduation. Yeah. That's true. Yeah.

00:43:52.820 Good point. Oh, as long as any, this is what I always, as long as something doesn't come up,

00:43:57.680 I'll be there. Exactly. So what you're saying is that something better might come up and you want

00:44:02.760 to leave your options open because you can't commit to it. This is what friends used to do in

00:44:06.640 high school. They're like, Hey bro, you want to come over? We're doing this. He's like, yeah,

00:44:10.040 like, yeah, I'll see. Yeah. You're in or you're not. Which one is it? You coming or no? Oh, I don't

00:44:17.440 know. I just got, then no, the answer is no, you're not coming. Cool. Got it. Now we can plan and we can

00:44:22.220 drive on and you can do your thing and we can do ours. And that's how it works. Yeah. And, and tied to back

00:44:27.420 to pies and Christmas, it's the same thing. I will be on a diet. I'll eat clean. I'll be healthy.

00:44:33.980 If Christmas isn't in the season, if people don't come over and visit us, if this, if that,

00:44:41.520 like it's, it's all just loaded with a bunch of excuses and reasons. So then that way you don't

00:44:47.340 have to actually commit or honor your word in any way. Right. Only when it's convenient. You think

00:44:52.660 about that? Like, oh yeah, I'll start that diet after the cruise that we're going to be on.

00:44:58.400 Cause all the, all you can eat foods there, you know, it's like, okay, that's, that's fine. But

00:45:02.680 just tell yourself that you're not disciplined enough. And you know what? That's actually okay

00:45:06.960 too. Yeah. Like I know people who are like, no, I want to eat all the pie. I'm like, cool. Eat it up

00:45:12.760 and live it up and love it. And then just deal with the consequence that you're going to be fat.

00:45:16.500 And that's okay. If you're cool with that, that's okay. No worries. Yeah.

00:45:20.420 But don't make excuses and be a victim of some other circumstance instead.

00:45:25.080 Right. Right. I'm big boned. No, you're not. You just eat all the pie.

00:45:31.060 That's not your bone. That's fat.

00:45:36.100 Exactly. All right. Frank Foreman. What was the origin of the affirmation statement at the

00:45:42.840 beginning of each podcast? Break it down. Hashtag Epsilon strong.

00:45:50.420 I just wrote it because I liked it. I actually don't really remember it right off hand.

00:45:56.740 Like the whole thing. It's been a while. Yeah. It has been a while. I've actually thought about

00:46:00.280 changing it. But yeah, I think I just, at the time I wrote it and it was uplifting and encouraging

00:46:07.480 to me and it was aspirational and things I wanted to accomplish and get getting myself up and what we

00:46:13.220 do as men and that you, you get to call yourself a man if you're doing the work. Yeah. You know,

00:46:18.840 like alluding to the fact that it's not just something that is, is we're, we're born with

00:46:23.720 that you have to earn it. Right. And, and at the end of the day, after all said and done,

00:46:29.280 after you do all of that work, then you can call yourself a man. I think it's just something that

00:46:34.220 resonated with me at the time. And I think I'm going to tweak it and change it or do away with it

00:46:37.840 all together just because I like to mix things up for no apparent reason. Um, so yeah, but we all

00:46:43.920 have it memorized. So why would you go change it now? Just to keep you on your toes, keep you guys

00:46:48.900 guessing. All right. Jordan, uh, Schink strategies and tactics to becoming a better critical thinker.

00:46:56.340 I often find myself readily believing what people say, and I want to be better at developing my own

00:47:01.860 opinions. This question was inspired by your conversation with, with Sean Whalen.

00:47:07.840 Yeah. I would say expose yourself to additional thoughts and ideas that conflict with yours.

00:47:12.480 That's, that's the, like the most, that's the low hanging fruit. Yeah. Is if you hear something,

00:47:17.780 go find the alternative to that. If Sean says something, or I say something, or Kip, you say

00:47:21.800 something good now, go find somebody who says the exact opposite opposite. Yeah. Yep. And if you do that

00:47:26.940 enough, like you're going to start to think critically about, okay, is this person right? Is that person

00:47:30.800 right? I would also say that we all need to get better about stripping our emotions out of,

00:47:36.580 uh, interpreting information because when we allow our emotions into it, it clouds our rational judgment

00:47:43.320 and thought process. When I'm, when I have a level of, of, of disengagement or separation from a thing

00:47:50.860 that I'm interested in, I notice I make more rational decisions, but when I'm deeply, deeply connected to

00:47:57.220 that thing and emotionally tied to the outcome, it tends to be irrational, at least to some degree.

00:48:02.320 A great example of this is individual coaching. So guys will come up to me and they'll say, Hey, you know,

00:48:07.900 I'm trying to, I don't know, improve the relationship I have with my daughter. And it is so vividly clear

00:48:15.260 where this guy is messing up. Yeah. Like, so like almost so clear that you're like, what is wrong with

00:48:23.740 you? How can you not see this? And he can't see it because he's so emotionally attached to the

00:48:30.680 decisions that he's making. This is actually part of the value of having an outside coach because they

00:48:36.020 can give you objective analysis into what is actually happening, not how you perceive it to be

00:48:41.140 happening. Yeah. And, and I'm saying, you know, I, I do that for other guests. I fall into the same

00:48:46.980 boat. Like if it was a decision with my kid, it would be different than if it was a decision that I

00:48:51.220 was helping you with your kid. Yeah. So look for conflicting thoughts and then try to detach the

00:48:58.100 emotional response or outcome and try to be as robotic and objective as you possibly can.

00:49:05.740 And then just have fun with it. Just toy around with it. You're like, okay, well, let's take this

00:49:11.860 idea. I don't know if it's true or not, but let's just take this idea. And what if we all believe that?

00:49:17.120 And if you believe that, what else would you believe? And if you believe those things,

00:49:20.460 then what would you do and how would your life play out? And how would other people live their

00:49:25.340 lives? Like just play the what if game and just have fun with it. Yeah. No, no expectation,

00:49:31.260 no objective, no outcome. This is what scientists do, right? They have a hypothesis. I think this is

00:49:37.180 what's going to happen based on the best information they have available, but a true scientist should not

00:49:42.520 be connected to the result. Because if he is, then he's naturally going to create an environment that

00:49:52.740 will inevitably produce the predetermined result. He has to be disconnected from the result of that

00:49:59.200 experiment or that process. That's what a true scientist would do. We won't get started on

00:50:06.200 popular science. People don't exist anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and Jordan, I think one

00:50:12.780 of the first things that I do kind of what you're saying, Ryan, is remove the emotion is one of the

00:50:19.820 first ways to do that is just stop making it right and wrong. So when someone says something, it's not

00:50:26.040 right or wrong. It's Ryan's perspective of the circumstance, right? Because the minute you put like

00:50:32.700 right and wrong, you immediately kind of go into the state of like boxing it. You're like, well,

00:50:37.240 actually it probably is right for him in this context and these circumstances or whatever.

00:50:42.340 Like just focus on trying to understand it. Certainly when it comes to relationships and

00:50:46.760 you're arguing with someone, removing that right and wrong becomes very valuable because then you

00:50:51.400 realize that you're just trying to understand. And there's a great quote and I can't remember what

00:50:55.500 it is, but like the intelligence of man is, is your ability to understand someone else's point of

00:51:02.220 view without agreeing it or without agreeing with it. Right. Like entertaining it without

00:51:06.520 embracing it or something. Yeah. Yeah. And there's ways that we can really do that. Like

00:51:10.380 so much, like this is what I loved about debate, like in, in college was I would get so engulfed

00:51:16.780 in the debate that people are like, man, you really believe that? I'm like, no, not at all. But I saw

00:51:21.580 all these points that I like wanted to argue about. Right. So there's, there's ways that you can

00:51:26.220 really, and even try that, grab, grab a point of view that you completely disagree with

00:51:30.980 and debate it in your mind of how you would argue that point. And you'll come up with all kinds of

00:51:36.580 great evidence of how you could argue a point that you completely disagree with if you're

00:51:40.820 intellectual enough about it. So, you know, what's funny is I made a post on Twitter. I was going to

00:51:44.860 pull this up, uh, just yesterday and Twitter is just, it's crazy. It's crazy. Oh, it's crazy.

00:51:51.460 All right. So the post I, I were, I wrote this, I said, if masks work so well, why do people who

00:51:58.460 are wearing them get upset with people who aren't? If they don't work so well, why are they wearing

00:52:04.120 them? That's all I said. Now I realized that the mask is supposed to protect the individuals from

00:52:11.520 a person who might be, I know that, but I'm like, I'm really curious, like what people will say about,

00:52:16.580 like, I'm, I'm actually fascinated with how tribal we've become over masks. And it's very interesting.

00:52:23.360 Like the comments are hysterical, you know, people are upset at each other and calling each other

00:52:28.640 names. And then one meme will post this. And then this who, who agrees with wearing masks. And then

00:52:34.140 the other one will say, well, here's my article that proves that you don't need to wear a mask.

00:52:40.100 And it's just crazy. It is a wild, wild time in which we live. So. Totally. Yeah. And the funny

00:52:48.540 part is none of them know. Yes. Why? Because you read something that you've thought, Hey,

00:52:55.140 you know what? That sounds right. So I'm going to make that my, my, my reality. Yeah. My thing,

00:53:00.600 but I don't know you and I haven't gotten in a lab and actually tested the effectiveness of,

00:53:05.660 Oh no, I have, I have done that. I have it. So I'm regurgitating and assuming what I read was

00:53:12.460 valuable. And what I searched for was what, what Google served up and what does Google serve up based upon

00:53:17.700 what I typically look up. And so it's just a, a reaffirmation of how I see the world that,

00:53:22.400 and I find the answers that, of things that I already typically believe in. So.

00:53:27.220 Yeah. Um, Jordan Harbinger posted a funny meme. I'm going to butcher it, but it was this guy sitting

00:53:32.900 on the computer and he was like, I'm going to try to find the real answer to this and be as objective

00:53:38.140 as possible. And then the next little image was this character and he was typing on Google. And then the

00:53:43.180 next image was the one that he clicked on and it just had like a sub title. And it said literally

00:53:49.480 the first article that he had already agreed with or something.

00:53:56.180 That's what we do. Yeah. You're like, Oh, that seems right. Let me click on that.

00:53:59.340 Yeah. That's legit. That's funny stuff.

00:54:02.860 Oh, that's gnarly. I got to wrap up, man. I'm sorry.

00:54:06.820 Oh, you do. Okay.

00:54:07.660 Sorry guys. No, I do. If that's okay.

00:54:10.360 Yep. That was my fault for tweaking the, uh, the time on your last minute. So no, no worries. No worries.

00:54:17.380 So, you know, I don't know about you, but I, I, um, well, I know you've read this book, but the way of men

00:54:23.800 and I can't help, but I wrapped up that book just, uh, this past week and I just can't help, but look at

00:54:31.900 what exists within the iron council, what you've created within order of man, within the iron council,

00:54:38.440 within the Facebook group and, and just see the power of that tribe. Um, and what it allows, um,

00:54:47.800 what, what's, what's possible because of that tribe. The reality of it is through being in iron council

00:54:54.000 for the last few years and being involved in order, man, like this is the tribe by which men can join

00:55:00.440 to ultimately become better. And, and, and just the power in numbers, the power of standing shoulder

00:55:08.000 to shoulder, having increased accountability and being able to have even a soundboard, right? A lot

00:55:13.840 of guys, we have a tendency to be a kind of alpha males that are solo and I'll do it by myself. And we

00:55:20.220 don't have, we don't have avenues to actually bounce ideas off of and a close brotherhood to get

00:55:27.480 feedback and, and look for those things. We really don't. I mean, if everyone listening right now,

00:55:32.760 look at who your friends are, it's by chance, most of them, right? They're your friends because they

00:55:37.820 happen to be your friends in high school. And if you're going to be friends with them now, you'd be

00:55:41.120 like, no, I actually don't like that guy that much to actually make them a friend or that's a friend

00:55:46.160 out of some accident in the iron council. It's a whole different story. You, you get to join the IC

00:55:52.420 and you're with like-minded men by default, right? And you choose a team of guys that you

00:55:57.800 can relate to and you can reach out to other guys in the IC that like might have common interests and

00:56:03.780 beliefs that you do. And, and it's just the, the opportunity that that creates is just super,

00:56:09.840 super powerful. And I can't just express that enough. And, and not that, I don't know,

00:56:14.300 sound cheesy, but thanks to you, Ryan, for, for creating this ecosystem that has obviously allowed me

00:56:20.560 to benefit from it, but obviously allow, uh, a great deal of men within the iron key iron council

00:56:25.980 to become ultimately better men and, and not better just for themselves. Not that that their

00:56:30.920 motive, but like, but better for their families, better for our community, uh, and be able to stand

00:56:36.700 and be proper represent, uh, representatives of what, what it looks like or what it should look like

00:56:43.120 to be a man. So thanks. Anyhow, you should do your commercial. I should write a review or something.

00:56:48.860 Um, so one thing I was going to say, and then I know you got to get going is I actually joined

00:56:54.240 team Foxtrot's call this morning and I think there was 10 or 11, 12 of them on the call.

00:56:59.620 And it was just really cool to participate and be part of it. And to see, you know,

00:57:03.500 they were joking around with each other, giving each other a hard time, but then when, then they

00:57:06.560 also got serious, right? A couple of guys were like, Hey, how's this thing going? And a couple of

00:57:10.560 guys were like, I don't know. And they kind of got in each other's face a little bit. Like it was just

00:57:13.440 really good to see from that level. Cause I look at it at a different level now, but to be at the

00:57:19.400 team level was actually really cool this morning and a testament to everything that you're talking

00:57:22.520 about. Absolutely. So powerful to learn more guys about the iron council, go to order of man.com

00:57:27.980 slash iron council. And of course, to submit your questions for future AMAs, go to facebook.com

00:57:33.560 slash groups slash order of man and join us. And you can do so by subscribing to this podcast,

00:57:41.600 subscribing to the YouTube channel, um, and supporting us, uh, through spreading the word,

00:57:47.180 whether that's sharing the podcast or, uh, wearing swag and whatnot. You can also follow

00:57:52.660 Mr. Mickler on Instagram and Twitter at Ryan Mickler. That's right. All right, guys, we're going to get

00:57:58.520 going. Um, I had a great conversation with Greg Anderson for, he was the police officer

00:58:03.220 who recorded the video about his duties and other police officers duties, um, that just kind of

00:58:09.080 blew up and went viral. His podcast will be available tomorrow, which is out of routine,

00:58:13.980 but I wanted to let you know, cause that one's very, very important. So be on the lookout for

00:58:17.540 that. Uh, and then we'll be back on Friday as well for the, uh, for the Friday field notes,

00:58:22.560 but guys, until then go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

00:58:27.220 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

00:58:31.820 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

00:58:41.680 You

Don't be Desperate, Creating Family Rituals, and When to Quit ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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